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Joe Rogan Experience #2365 - Rep. Anna Paulina Luna

Anna Paulina Luna serves as U.S. representative for Florida's 13th congressional district. She is the author of two books: "Marrying the Beret: The Untold Stories of US Special Operations," and "Bringing them Home: The Untold Cost of Putting Missions First." https://luna.house.gov 50% off your first box at https://www.thefarmersdog.com/rogan! This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE

Joe RoganhostAnna Paulina Lunaguest
Aug 13, 20252h 28mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:06

    Intro

    1. NA

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

  2. 0:06 – 1:49

    UAP curiosity sparked by military experience and pilot stigma

    1. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (instrumental music plays) So what did you think about the whole UFO thing before you got into office?

    2. AL

      Um, so I actually had, when I was stationed at Portland Air National Guard, my job there was an air field manager, so I would interface and work a lot with the F-15 pilots at the unit. (smacks lips) And so, um, there had been an airspace incursion that had taken place when I was still at the time at the Guard. And I remember kind of talking to some of the pilots about it and I was like, "What was that?" And they're like, "Eh, we can't really talk about it." And no one really wanted to address it. And so from what I'd gathered, that had been likely a UAP. Um, and so that kind of was my perspective. Granted, I also grew up in the generation of The X-Files and, you know, I don't know if you remember 94 Independence Day. So like for me specifically, I didn't look at it with like a crazy lens and perspective. I'm like, you know, you, you never know if, you know, we're the only ones out there essentially.

    3. JR

      But why did you assume that if it's a top secret incursion that he couldn't talk about, that it wasn't just a military craft from another country?

    4. AL

      Because of the way that he was discussing it.

    5. JR

      How did he... What did he say?

    6. AL

      So he had been, um, (smacks lips) he, he didn't wanna, from what I gather, get taken off flight status, and he's like, "I really can't discuss it." Um, we couldn't really, like, identify it essentially. And it had outperformed them. And so that was my first, from a military perspective, kind of experience with someone who basically, you know, there's a stigma within the flight community, um, do you want to lose your security clearance? Um, what... You know, is there this level of crazy that people kind of brand that will stick with you and kind of ruin your career.

    7. JR

      But doesn't he have instrumentation on his jet?

    8. AL

      Well, at the time, right? So it was an old- an older platform, but-

    9. JR

      Mm-hmm.

  3. 1:49 – 2:46

    Congressional task force origins: Eglin AFB complaints and Pentagon resistance

    1. AL

      ... he really w- didn't wanna even talk about it. And I bring that up because now with our investigation and the task force that I run, actually the reason why the task force was formed was because of a, uh, event that happened at Eglin Air Force Base, where both myself, Representative Matt Gaetz, and Representative Tim Burchett actually had responded and gone to investigate mult- multiple Air Force pilots that had come forward in regards to UAP incidences that had occurred, and they were alleging that the Air Force was covering it up.

    2. JR

      Interesting.

    3. AL

      Yeah. So that was... That and like, I'm happy to go into detail on that one, but what I will tell you is the stuff that I saw at Eglin, how the military responded, me being, uh, you know, a former service member and then ultimately what I saw with the t- the pushback of the military not even wanting to share with Congress information, which is a big problem. Because when you have Congress that's supposed to be the advocate and voice for the American people, the oversight body, and you're being denied access, not just from a base commander, but high level up at the Pentagon, even Secretary of Defense, it's a problem.

  4. 2:46 – 8:50

    What ‘beyond physics’ means: interdimensional claims, evidence limits, and contractors

    1. JR

      (smacks lips) Do you think that it's possible that these are US vehicles that are top secret?

    2. AL

      I definitely think that there's a level of advanced technology that the US government has. And I think that that i- that tech can be housed within the defense contract around- realm, and of course some information's gonna be classified. But I can also tell you, and this might sound crazy, but based on our investigations and stuff that we've seen, okay, there is definitely something that I think would rival what we know currently with physics and a tech that potentially is out there with that we don't have the ability to reproduce. Because it would basically be like dropping a cellphone, a cellphone, right, off back during the time of m- maybe cavemans. So like we just don't have the tech to develop it yet. What I can also tell you is based on our interviews, and this has been something that you can go back and watch with the congressional hearings, but I was actually able, able to ask some of the witnesses, you know, "What are these things?" And they keep saying interdimensional, and then when you talk about the interdimensional aspect of, you know, are these things preexisting, maybe outside of what we currently know as our own dimension, um, that stuff can kind of all sound crazy. But at the end of the day, you know, my job as an investigator is to receive all the information, decipher it, and then ultimately from a congressional aspect, if you do have contractors that are withholding information or operating outside of the purview of the federal government, I mean, there's budgetary issues. But there's definitely something that I can tell you with confidence that exists that we don't know how to explain currently.

    3. JR

      So when you say that it, it operates outside our understanding of physics, what specifically are you saying? Like what, what happened?

    4. AL

      (smacks lips) To, to, I guess break it down in simple terms is that I think that some of the tech that exists, that whatever these things have, these energy things have, um, can-

    5. JR

      Energy things?

    6. AL

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      What do you mean?

    8. AL

      Well, they call them inter, interdimensional beings. I think that they can actually operate through the time spaces that we currently have. And that's not something that I came up with on my own. That's based on stuff that we've seen, that's based on information that we've, uh, been told. And then also too, I think that there's this historical aspect of, you know, this gets into the deeper theories and concepts of religion and, and I think the history that we currently know. And, and that kind of spins off into another topic of, you know, you have the modern day Bible, you have this aspect of Bibles that, or, uh, books of the Bible that have been removed that explain and kind of touch on these topics. And I think that we're in a time and age where you have such a, um, a vast amount of q- information that we have access to via social media, via your cell phone, via the internet. And so it's really changing the way that we understand, you know, the origins of life and, and the spiritual reality that we know currently.

    9. JR

      When you say interdimensional beings, that they know that these are interdimensional beings. How do they know that?

    10. AL

      (smacks lips) That... So, um, based on testimony would be based on witnesses that had come forward. But what I can tell you is I've-

    11. JR

      So the witnesses just were told that they were interdimensional?

    12. AL

      No, no, that they've, that they've seen things. And what I can tell you without getting into classified conversations, um, is that there have been incidences that I believe where very credible people have reported that there have been movement outside of time and space.

    13. JR

      That's very vague. (laughs)

    14. AL

      Yeah, so... Look-

    15. JR

      Unfortunately.

    16. AL

      Yeah, yeah. Look, um, have I seen a portal open? No. Have I seen a spaceship personally? No. Have I seen evidence of this? Yes. Have I seen photo documentation of aircraft that I believe were not made by mankind? Yes. Is there historical significance to this? Yes. Is there multiple events that go back to, I would argue, maybe even before the time of Christ that have documented this in text? Yes. So do I believe that the government has access to certain technology? Yes, to an extent. And I believe that certain contractors potentially have back engineered this tech. I think that that's what can explain the advancements that we're seeing. But I also believe that this is a dangerous level of hidden information from the American people, because if you have an aspect of the federal government, which I can tell you, I ha- with two other members of Congress, were denied access to information at Eglin Air Force Base pertaining to whistleblowers because of the fact... And we can get into that story on what happened at Eglin in a second, but we were di- denied access and told that we don't have security clearance or the read-in authority on a special access program. That's a problem because I'm supposed to represent and be an investigative body, and you have then people who are unelected that are operating basically in secrecy. Um, and, and that's a problem. That's a big problem.

    17. JR

      And so how do these people have the authority to do that?

    18. AL

      I think it's been decades of classified secret information, then also this aspect of the intelligence community that's been empowered. And it's kind of serendipitous with timing because when you talk about the intelligence communities and what they've done essentially to the trust in this country with the American people, I think this goes all the way back even into JFK, um, with how they basically have operated outside of the purview of Congress. And, and basically to an extent have gone rogue up until recently. You're seeing a big push and pull to try to rein in these intelligence agencies currently.

    19. JR

      Yeah. So what... I wanna bring it back to evidence. You said that you've seen evidence. Like what kind of evidence have you seen?

    20. AL

      I have seen photos, I have seen, um-

    21. JR

      What have you seen photos of?

    22. AL

      So I was in a skiff, and I can't discuss all that was in a skiff, but what I can tell you is based on the photos that I've seen, I'm very confident that there's things out there that have not been created by mankind.

    23. JR

      Phew. It seems crazy that people have access to information that shows that there's something outside of us that is more intelligent, at least more capable than we are, and they hide it from everybody else.

  5. 8:50 – 19:09

    Disinformation, Project Blue Book, and why secrecy persists

    1. AL

      What I can tell you is that when you have thousands upon thousands of people around the planet throughout time that have reported something-

    2. JR

      Right.

    3. AL

      ... to say that those people are crazy, to say that, you know, the whole concept of even just asking the question that you might not necessarily be psychologically sound, that in itself, you know, that's a disinformation campaign-

    4. JR

      Yes.

    5. AL

      ... to get people to shut up about it. And that's, that's a problem. We know that the US government has not exactly been clean in a lot of what they've done with the American people, specifically to the topic of UFOs, you had-

    6. JR

      Which makes you think that it's probably because there's something there. If you think about the motivation they had with P- Project Blue Book-

    7. AL

      Mm-hmm.

    8. JR

      ... when J. Allen Hynek was running Project Blue Book, this specific intention was to discredit all stories.

    9. AL

      And he ended up ultimately though-

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. AL

      ... after all of his investigations becoming someone that was like, "Ah, I think there's something to it." But th- that's true. Um, by the way, a lot of people might not necessarily go onto Google and look up that information, but you can actually look up the declassified reports from Project Blue Book. What's also interesting though is when we're talking about tech, right? The ability for this tech being that it exists to change dependence for entire governments on things like fossil fuel, et cetera. You know, it's, um... Look, I think everyone has a moral obligation to do what they think is right. Okay? And so if you're in a position of power and you see something wrong and you're not addressing it, I think, you know, this in itself, getting the truth out there for people to decide for themselves. I'm not telling you what to believe. I'm just telling you in our investigations and what we are pushing for in regards to transparency. I would like to see the federal government roll out some of the stuff that we've been given access to, because I think that that information belongs in the hands of the American people. And it's not even just the US government. I mean, there's other countries around the world that have done certain things like this. Now, look, I've had a lot of crazy people show up at my office and say, "You know, I..." Like "I've heard it all."

    12. JR

      Been to Mars.

    13. AL

      Yeah, "I've been to Mars."

    14. JR

      (laughs)

    15. AL

      Um, you know, "I have a chip in my bra- brain," all this stuff.

    16. JR

      Oh, yeah. They all have chips.

    17. AL

      We had this one guy that showed up that was like trying to give us a USB. He's like, "Put this in your computer or they're gonna kill me for this."

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. AL

      And like runs away. And I'm like, "I'm not putting that in my computer."

    20. JR

      (laughs) Mm-hmm.

    21. AL

      But based on our investigations, what I will tell you is, you know, there's been, um, two members of Congress that are actually helping to lead out these investigations with me. And the reason I say that is because up until last Congress, if you even said the word UAP or UFO, people actually told us that if we went forward with these investigations, that we were gonna ruin our political careers. And so, you know, we're in the mindset of, "Well, like why wouldn't we ask these questions?" And also too, if no one wants to touch it, like there has to be something here, right?

    22. JR

      Right.

    23. AL

      And so in these investigations, I mean, the amount of people that will come up to us, very successful people, to multiple members of Congress that believe the same thing, it's definitely changed in regards to the stigma that used to exist about disclosure and all this.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. AL

      And so what we're trying to do currently was... There's a big documentary that was filmed about a year and a half ago, and we're trying to get a screening up on Capitol Hill. But look, I, I think a lot of people say, "Well, this is a distraction from everything else happening in the country right now." And all I'm simply trying to say is, it's not a distraction. The people that are kind of helping to divulge all this information, you have an intelligence community, you know, Tulsi Gabbard, Ratcliffe, Kash Patel, they're, they have been...... truly, in regards to our other investigations, extremely transparent and wanting to get this information out. But it doesn't mean that within these intelligence communities, there isn't pushback. And so, part of the reason why the task force was formed pertaining to things like UAP, pertaining to things like the Jeffrey Epstein stuff, pertaining to things like, um, the JFK, MLK, and RFK investigations is because even though we don't hold declassification authority, what we're trying to do is push these agencies and be, if you will, the pit bull and the attack dog on trying to get this information released. And to a lot of these agencies' credits, they've been extremely transparent and we have gotten one specifically on the JFK stuff, and we're still looking to declassify and ask specifically on the UAP topic.

    26. JR

      What would be the rationale for keeping a photograph of a known ab- a- absolute not of this world craft from the American people or from the world? Why, why would anybody think that that would be the smart thing to do is to limit the access of that information to a very small amount of people?

    27. AL

      I think that part of the fear is, is that you have advisors that think that, you know, um, the American people or humanity might not be able to handle it cr- There's this, like-

    28. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. AL

      ... protective complex. But then also too, I think when you are talking about these things, for a lot of people, I think that it kind of can rock your world a little bit in regards to where you stand in a faith perspective and then also too, um, an aspect of, well, how do you even begin to explain it? And all I'm gonna say is, look, um, and we can go into some of the books that were remov- removed from what we know as the modern day Bible, but I read through the Book of Enoch multiple times, and I'm not saying that these things are angels, okay? That's, that's not at all what I'm saying. But what I am saying is that depending on where you are in regards to your whole perspective on whether or not God exists, like, I believe in God, I'm a Christian. Um, there has to have been, and there's admissions that there was other creations that God made, but that we were the most prized creation. And so, I think that this can open up a bigger topic of discussion. What I will say is that what's been interesting is, and I've had a, a mass array of people that have come in, right? Like, we have people that come in that claim that you can use this ability to basically dog whistle these things in from a, like a psychic ability.

    30. JR

      Yeah, I've heard people say that.

  6. 19:09 – 22:34

    Remote viewing and consciousness: CIA reading room, Stargate, and modern ‘telepathy’ claims

    1. AL

      Well, I think that this gets into the bigger discussion of what do we know, right? Going back to some of these books that were moved. Um, there's a good podcast right now called The Autistic Tapes, and it talks about how some non-speaking or non-verbal autistic kids actually are exhibiting, um, telepath-

    2. JR

      You mean the Telepathy Tapes?

    3. AL

      Yeah. They're the t- Yeah, sorry, the Telepathy Tapes.

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. AL

      Non-verbal autistic kids are exhibiting telepathy. You know, this concept, again, if you were to talk about it 20 years ago, people would call you crazy. But, you know, I think based on what we're seeing now, based on the fact that our own government's looked into it, um, based on the stuff that you were saying, I mean, you can find all this information publicly available and it's out there. And, and I think that there's something to it. And so, you know, we're seeing, and we've heard this is in non-classified settings, we've heard from people that have come forward that are saying, "You know, we're being able to, via meditation, we're be- essentially like downloading information and we can communicate with these things." Granted, you know, when I'm sitting in my congressional office and I'm hearing this, I take it with a grain of salt because we do get a lot of crazy people. But when you have people that are high level executives, very successful, clean cut, not on drugs, they're coming in and they're telling you this stuff. And then, you know, you're kind of cross-refering- cross-referencing it with various people in intelligence agencies, I just, I think that there's something there we need to be at least open to hearing the discussion and the argument for these things.

    6. JR

      Oh, for sure. I mean, like I said, if there's a photo out there, I think you owe humanity a service. You, you're supposed to release that photograph. Like, there's no reason why a small group of people in the government should have photo conclusive evidence that aliens are real.

    7. AL

      And there's a-

    8. JR

      That's crazy.

    9. AL

      W- And there's an overclassification aspect of this too, right? Like, if you're serving in the military and you're taking a photo on your personal device or a video on your personal device, that shouldn't be the purview of the federal government. And either which way, I mean, there's been now so much stuff... There's, granted there's been a lot of fake stuff put out there.

    10. JR

      Right.

    11. AL

      But the stuff that is legitimate that we are seeing, the stuff that we had people testify to in our congressional hearings, I mean, that's not a joke. And what's even more interesting to this is that I was actually able ta- to talk to David Grusch, who now is actually working with the task force to kind of chase down a lot of these leads in regards to some of these contractors that allegedly have this tech, right? So in talking with him, um, again, not in a SCIF, we were able to actually flush out that prior to him testifying that he actually received very real threats against his life and his wife, his wife's life. Um, he's a sound guy. And then shortly after he testified, this was, there was this massive smear operation that was launched against him to try to discredit his testimony. And so, you know, again, going into, well, if this stuff wasn't real or if he wasn't telling the truth, why would there be this massively orchestrated effort to, you know, um, completely just disprove what he was trying to say or to discredit his actions and his testimony? And so it is kind of coming full circle, right? Going back to what the task force has been able to find out. I mean, we're conducting these investigations simultaneously, and we're doing this in addition to everything that we, um, to everything else that we have to do as members of Congress, right? So although I would love to just dedicate my full time and attention to this, we still have to balance it out. And so I've again had some great investigators who are working with us on oversight, as well as a lot of cooperation from the intelligence agencies. And we are going to be asking for this information to de- be declassified, at least information that has been showed to us.

  7. 22:34 – 26:49

    Disclosure politics: misappropriated funds, amnesty debate, and Congress as an enforcement body

    1. JR

      I think the first break in the wall was that 2017 New York Times report where they were talking about it in logical, sensible language that these things might be from another world. But I think that movie that you're discussing, which is The Age of Disclosure, right?

    2. AL

      Yeah. I haven't seen it. Have you seen it?

    3. JR

      It's very good.

    4. AL

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      It's very good. It's very good and it, it doesn't even have any like UFO footage. I mean, maybe like a little bit, but, but-

    6. AL

      It's just testimony?

    7. JR

      It's just testimony. And at the end of it, you kind of draw this conclusion like, "Oh, this makes sense."

    8. AL

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JR

      Like this, what they're essentially saying is one of the problems is if they have been funding these secret programs, then for all these years they've been misappropriating money.

    10. AL

      Oh yeah. And they've been lying to Congress.

    11. JR

      And they've been lying to Congress. And that's-

    12. AL

      Jinx.

    13. JR

      ... super illegal. (laughs)

    14. AL

      (laughs) Very illegal but you know it's like-

    15. JR

      It's super illegal.

    16. AL

      ... is Congress gonna do anything about it? 'Cause it's not the first time. Like we have the abil- And this is the most frustrating thing. So as a f- This is my second term in Congress now, but as a first term member of Congress, you know, when you, Joe, when you get elected to Congress, you would think that they would bring you in and they'd say, "Okay, this is how you do the legislation." No. You get elected, you show up to kind of a crash course for about like a week and a half on, you know, how to not get in trouble with ethics. And then you're basically wined and dined by lobbyists. They don't actually tell you how to do the legislation. Basically, the only rules that you're told are never vote down a rule, which is a procedural motion to bring legislation to the floor, and don't really ever vote against your party. Of which within the first week I broke both rules and so I was on the naughty list-

    17. JR

      (laughs)

    18. AL

      ... (laughs) um, per usual. But the thing is, is that-

    19. JR

      They tell you how to do it. That's kind of crazy.

    20. AL

      Well they tell you basically those are the two ru- two rules and, and don't go against that and you'll, you won't have any issues.

    21. JR

      Those are big ass rules though.

    22. AL

      Yeah. 'Cause it's like, you know, you're supposed to represent your constituency.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. AL

      So if you have people calling your office saying, "Don't, you need to vote for this," and then you vote against it, it's like people-

    25. JR

      Right.

    26. AL

      ... forget that you're supposed to represent, right? Representative instead of just do what the party wants. But you know, there is, there are mechanisms that have existed-... since Thomas Jefferson, who wrote our damn rule manual that enable us to actually pass legislation and actually hold agencies and people accountable from a punitive perspective. And, um, I don't know if you were tracking, but, like, I brought a vote on the former attor- Attorney General for basically refusing to testify to Congress and respond to a subpoena, and that was called inherent contempt. And a lot of congress was like, "What the hell's inherent contempt?" It hadn't been done since the early 1900s and I actually read it in the rule manual, and I read the rule manual twice. It's, like, so crazy what happens when you read books, but we were able to find this out and it was a mechanism that Congress can use to actually basically send the Sergeant-at-Arms to go arrest people.

    27. JR

      Geez. Okay, so... One of the things that this documentary was calling for that I think is the only logical way to solve this, is a mass amnesty for these people that misappropriated money and-

    28. AL

      Or whistleblowers.

    29. JR

      Or whistleblowers. Well, the whi- the whistleblowers thing is crazy, like they... Leave 'em alone. Like, come on, y- of course... Everybody should fucking know this stuff, guys. The ra- the real crime is you keeping this secret from humanity. That's the real crime, okay? You- the other stuff is horseshit. It's just interpretations of what you're writing down on paper. You're making up r- rules.

    30. AL

      Mm-hmm.

  8. 26:49 – 29:57

    Blocked legislation and ‘deep state’ dynamics: how UAP efforts get stalled

    1. AL

      they want to keep this information secret. So, repr- uh, Representative Tim Burchett, before-

    2. JR

      But why do they wanna keep the information secret?

    3. AL

      Because I think that their mouthpiece is in control of the deep state, and that, that's a thing, a- and it exists on both sides, okay?

    4. JR

      So someone will come to them with marching point-

    5. AL

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      ... marching orders.

    7. AL

      100%. Uh, Representative Tim Burchett, before I got elected, was kind of on his own little island, r- in regards to the UAP stuff, and he will himself tell you that, you know, this is 100%, like, a thing, and that these defense contractors and what he believes, you know, the Pentagon not passing all this, all of this, these blocked budget programs. I mean, like, he will tell you, he's, again, been leading out this effort way before I got there. Um, he had a piece of legislation that was supposed to enable the FAA to report and develop a different reporting res- uh, different reporting procedure for UAP stuff and at the time, the chairman of Intel ensured that that legislation was not brought forward, that it was stopped. The piece of legislation that actually passed out of the Senate, it really had no teeth to it, and then Representative Burchett drew a primary challenger that was being backed by the chairman of Intel. And so, you know, when you are touching these t- it's like, you know that meme where you have that stork that's like, "Don't touch this," and then the little foot comes out?

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. AL

      It's kind of (laughs) like what we're doing, and it's not exactly easy because you will take heat from both sides, but there- it has a bit- uh, been a good group that's been assembled that's bicameral, meaning it's both in the House and the Senate, and bipartisan, meaning both Democrats and Republicans are saying like, "Hey, this should actually happen."

    10. JR

      Are they publicly talking about not releasing the information or is all this stuff done in secrecy?

    11. AL

      It's done behind the scenes.

    12. JR

      Because i- if they how to do it publicly, if it- they had announced their position on it publicly, it would be very damaging, I think, to anybody's political career, on the right or the left.

    13. AL

      People would be pissed, right? Because-

    14. JR

      Well, they're pissed! Well, because I'm pissed, because if- if they've had it for this long, and if they really did recover something as early as 1947... Excuse me (clears throat) .

    15. AL

      Well, I can tell you is, um, for us specifically-

    16. JR

      (clears throat) .

    17. AL

      ... we actually were made aware, some, uh, people had come forward that said that they- they wanted to brief. So about two years ago when all this kicked off, we had requested briefings from AARO, that's in charge of kind of compiling the investigative aspect of UAP stuff. And by the way, from the get-go, I- uh, like, even in talking to AARO, I was like, "This organization is literally a BS organization, they're never gonna tell us anything," and every interaction that we had in the SCIF, I was like, "This is a nothing burger." But then these people came forward and said that they were actually deny- they were told to not brief our group, specifically on this topic, and that it was from, at the time, members of House leadership, but they wouldn't say who. And so I actually went with another member of Congress and confronted multiple people and they all denied denying us access. So it's done behind the scenes. You'll see these random little troll blockages that might pop up, but what I can tell you is that with the new administration, specifically with the FBI, specifically with ODNI, we have gotten transparency to where previously we would have been stonewalled. We were actually, um, b- given briefings. And so what I will tell you is we are going to push for the information that we sought to be out there for the American people to see.

  9. 29:57 – 32:39

    Roswell-era context and notable military sightings: Vandenberg ‘red cube’ testimony

    1. JR

      So do you think that the whole idea of disclosure is maybe a multiple step, very s- agonizing, frustratingly slow process, rather than a big dump of all the information that they've had from Roswell, to the, the Aztec one, to this, uh, uh, apparently there's a, a, a whole slew... I don't know if it's Aztec, I forget the name of it. But there was a- another, during that same time period, there was a, a really prominent UFO, uh, recovery thing that was not as publicized as the one in Roswell. The big mistake with the Roswell one was the newspaper printed it.

    2. AL

      Well-

    3. JR

      And so then they had to backtrack, and then they had to do the press conference where they had like some scattered pieces of a weather balloon that didn't look anything like a UFO.

    4. AL

      And then-

    5. JR

      And they said, they say, "Sorry."

    6. AL

      ... the Air Force was like, "That is nothing" (laughs) .

    7. JR

      Yeah, but meanwhile they flew the wreckage to Right Field. They flew the- the wreckage and Truman met them there, supposedly.

    8. AL

      Well, I can tell you that in our hearing, we are actually notified, and you can pull this up, um, we were... I think it was, uh...W- one of the witnesses had talked about what had happened at Vandenberg Air Base, where there was this thing that appeared over the base. It actually had multiple blotters reporting on it from phone calls in to law enforcement from, like, hundreds of people. And whatever had appeared over the base was basically bigger than a football field and basically a cube, a red cube, with some weird thing in the center of it. Um, I actually had our witness draw this out. This guy's sober, is a priest, I mean, was a great pilot, and he's talking about all this. And so, you know, you talk about this as if it seems like a sci-fi movie, but based on the evidence that we've seen, I don't have any reason to believe that these people are lying. Based on the evidence that I've seen from our own government, I think that there's something there that the American people deserve to have access to. And so I've been ... This is not just on this topic, but again, in other topics as well, this has been my perspective, is transparency is what builds trust. Other governments have revealed certain information on it. To think that we are the only, you know, life form on this planet or in this galaxy I think is a little bit crazy, given, you know, the fact that I also think God exists and that there's other creations. But then again, you get into this aspect of, you know, why is it that you also have this aspect of, you know, a certain religion that has been very controlled and I think ruled out in a certain aspect. And, you know, when you have certain books that are removed because they don't think that people should have access to this information or know it, you know, why remove a book from a Bible, right?

    9. JR

      Was ... Did Wes Huff, did, did he touch on that? Did he talk about that? Are there people that don't believe the Book of Enoch was really a part of the Bible?

    10. NA

      I don't remember how, I don't remember how he discussed the missing books.

    11. JR

      Yeah, he was-

    12. NA

      I think we brought it up, but I don't remember how he answered.

    13. JR

      That's the guy to talk to.

  10. 32:39 – 39:04

    Religion and UAP overlap: Book of Enoch, removed texts, and faith implications

    1. AL

      Yeah, so what ... From what I gather-

    2. JR

      That's the guy to talk to about it. You know what I mean? Because you have to really understand the history of the Bible to, to be able to figure out w- you know, like, what's legitimate, what's not, why they put it into the New Testament. I had some very erroneous ideas about it until I talked to intelligent people that really, really know the history of it. And it's, it's very strange stuff.

    3. AL

      Well, so from, from what I gather, and by, by the way, I'm not a theologian in any capacity, but just from my personal opinion on this. So, you have the Ethiopian Orthodox text, which has, I think, 88 books in the Bo- of the Bible, um, in total. But in the Ethiopian Orthodox text, it's basically kind of like a, a mainline, OG version of the Bible. And then sometime in the fourth century, there was actually a group that came together, and they removed certain books. And, uh, th- The story goes, uh, that Revelations actually had replaced Enoch. And so it's interesting because when you're looking kind of full circle on, you know, you hear the stuff that some of these people are talking about, and then you see and you read the Book of Enoch, which is a wild read, okay? And then you look at kind of what our modern day description is of what angels and entities are versus what Enoch was seeing and reporting in his language and ability at that time. I just ... I think that there's a lot that brings you to then ask the question, well, why would they remove this information? If it's truly, you know, written and, and part of the oldest Bible in the world, why would they then take it out and, and water it down? And I'm not saying that you can't find God through the new Bible, right? Like, everyone's on their own spiritual journey, and I think everyone can pray and you can as- access God. But, um, I just find that very interesting. And so what I will say is that I like to have the whole kind of, um, picture in front of me. And so I feel like to fully understand A through Z, you kind of have to be able to read it.

    4. JR

      This is an ad for BetterHelp. The internet is a breeding ground for misinformation. Even a simple search for ways to get rid of a headache can produce millions and millions of results, from taking pain relievers, to detoxes, to medication, to cold compresses. It's overwhelming. And even when you do find something that's true that works for other people, it might not work for you. In some cases, it's better to just ask a living, breathing expert. If you have a headache that won't go away, go talk to a doctor. And if you're struggling with your mental health, consult a credentialed therapist. You can learn a lot about yourself in therapy, like how to be kind to yourself and how to be the best version of you. Whether you want to learn how to better manage stress, improve your relationships, gain more confidence, or something else, it starts with therapy. Try it for yourself with BetterHelp. Millions have benefited from their services, and there's a reason people rate it so highly. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/jre. That's betterhelp.com/jre. Yeah, I just don't know about the history of it. Did- W- Is there any, uh, debate about the, the reality of that book? Is there any debate about whether or not it was f- either fraudulent or discredited or something?

    5. NA

      The Book of Enoch?

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. NA

      Uh, yeah, I mean-

    8. JR

      Like, why did they re- 'Cause I, I know there was some kind of controversy that Wes Huff described. I just can't remember it.

    9. NA

      Yeah, I don't ... Well, I just looked through a transcript real quick. I didn't see you guys discussing Enoch. We were discussing Isaiah and then the Dead Sea Scrolls and stuff like that. I didn't see Enoch discussion.

    10. JR

      No, it must have been me privately talking-

    11. NA

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      ... to him about something, uh, another video that I watched. Um, the, the-

    13. AL

      But-

    14. JR

      The thing about, like, what Wes Huff does that's so interesting is like he, he, he really understands like the history of the text, the language in which they use, the names in which they chose. And when he breaks it all ... One of the things he told us that was the craziest was that the Book of Isaiah was exactly the same in the Dead Sea Scrolls as it was 1,000 years later. They, they-

    15. AL

      A direct translation.

    16. JR

      ... found one that was 1,000 years older.... and it was direct. It was word for word, verbatim. I'm like, "That's bananas." A thousand-year-old story that's exactly the same, written, uh, that they didn't know there was a version of it a thousand years ago, and then they, they find it in these caves in Qumran.

    17. AL

      It's confirmed in texts, yeah.

    18. JR

      It's nuts. It's really weird.

    19. AL

      And I, I mean, the-

    20. JR

      It's really, really weird stuff.

    21. AL

      And the fact that, uh, this kid, you know, uh, shepherd kid, was able to even find these scrolls, that they were set up and, you know, just-

    22. JR

      Uh-huh.

    23. AL

      ... his led to that point right in time where he finds this massive, basically admission that the Bible's real. Um, you can actually look into, you know, uh, there's a new King James, and then you can actually look into the Catholic Bible as well that also has, they call them Apocrypha texts, because the King James Bible doesn't acknowledge them, but there also other books that are not, uh, considered, you know, approved by the King James. So, look, I was, um, on my mom's side, I was actually raised Catholic, and then had my catechism, did all of it, and then on my dad's side, I was raised Christian, and then later on, uh, Messianic Jew. And so, I feel like I kind of have like a good cross-section, and I've been exposed to a lot of this growing up. But, um, it's definitely interesting, and so, uh, look, I don't tell people, like, I'm not, I'm not saying that, like, aliens created mankind. I don't believe that, 'cause I, at the end of the day, believe that God is responsible for our creation. But I do think that what we've been programmed to believe in regards to our ability to be able to use our mind, the spiritual aspect of us, really does exist, and I think that once you kind of remove yourself out of this basically rat race, and you can, like, really reconnect with that, I think that that's when you kind of realize, hey, there's a bigger purpose here in life, and, like, what is our end objective? And if you're given a position of influence, or a position of power, and you're not doing the right thing for humanity, you're not guiding people, then that's something that you have to answer for. So, I wanna make sure that I'm good with God.

    24. JR

      I hear you.

    25. AL

      (laughs)

    26. JR

      That's a lot. Um, uh, I think th- these stories, especially when you get to stories like Noah and the Ark, that these stories exist in basically every religion. They're real similar. They're real similar. I think all of these people are trying to document a truth.

    27. AL

      Mm-hmm.

    28. JR

      It's just, what is that truth, is what, w- where it gets weird. And when it gets to, like, other gods and giants, and giants created man, and-

    29. AL

      Well, Enoch talks about that.

    30. JR

      ... and, and have bred with man. Yeah. Oh, I know.

  11. 39:04 – 48:38

    CIA ‘Ark of the Covenant’ remote viewing document: reading, skepticism, and what counts as proof

    1. JR

      I know. It's, it's wild stuff. It's w- if it's legitimate, it's wild stuff. And then, do, do you know anything about the Ethiopian church that supposedly has the Ark of the Covenant in it?

    2. AL

      Yeah, I've looked into that. I actually wanted to, and again, um-

    3. JR

      But you're w- you're in the government. You can, like, get something done. (laughs)

    4. AL

      Yeah, so I actually wanted to do a CODEL to just get ... but of course, like, we're focusing on other things right now, right?

    5. JR

      Sending SEALs. Find that fucking thing.

    6. AL

      I was like, I need to pay for this for myself so we're not using taxpayer dollars, but just go check it out. Um, what's interesting is the CIA allegedly located the Ark of the Covenant. I think the, uh-

    7. JR

      Remote viewed?

    8. AL

      They remote, they remote viewed it.

    9. JR

      Oh.

    10. AL

      You can actually find that. Uh, you should actually pull it up.

    11. JR

      In Ethiopia?

    12. AL

      No, not in Ethiopia, but it was in a Middle Eastern country. They weren't able to locate the actual ... I think The New York Post did a article on it, where they actually had the handwritten notes on the Ark of the Covenant location.

    13. JR

      Okay.

    14. AL

      And they remote viewed it. You should ask them to pull it up.

    15. JR

      Hmm.

    16. AL

      Yeah. I'm serious about it.

    17. JR

      W- Did they go there and see if they were correct?

    18. AL

      I don't know if they did. I don't know. This is like Indiana Jones, but ...

    19. JR

      What? Decades-old CIA documents on Ark of the Covenant resurface amid classified group text spat. What? (laughs)

    20. NA

      (laughs)

    21. AL

      Wait, like ... Yeah. (laughs)

    22. JR

      It was a, it was a group text argument that caused this stuff to be released?

    23. AL

      No, check out, pull up The New York Post one, 'cause they actually have the handwritten notes from the remote viewer that actually, um, documents it.

    24. JR

      Okay. (laughs)

    25. AL

      It's, it should be ... I think it's, yeah, like, The New York Post.

    26. JR

      That's so funny.

    27. AL

      Oh, there we go.

    28. JR

      There it is.

    29. AL

      Top one. This is wild, because it actually goes into descriptions-

    30. JR

      Damn.

  12. 48:38 – 51:58

    Human consciousness, spirituality, and ‘quantum breadcrumbs’ in everyday life

    1. JR

      I'm just doing devil's advocate 'cause I have no skin in the game. I don't know if it's real or not real. I'm open to it. I think there's something going on. I think there's so- more, there's more going on with people-

    2. AL

      (laughs)

    3. JR

      ... than we let on. There's some, some extra thing that's happening with, with human beings, the way we're all connected to each other, that we don't really totally understand. And I think the, uh, uh, uh, idea that you can access information that's not local, I don't think that's w-... that weird. I think that might be an emerging aspect of human consciousness, or an aspect of human consciousness that's atrophied.

    4. AL

      Or just an aspect of spirituality that we've previously forgotten, because we're in such a digital age that kind of programs you into the rat race. And I think people, the more that they're kind of like, you know, there has to be more to life than just like a nine-to-five.

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. AL

      And, you know, working for this aspect of materialism, like, don't get me wrong, I like, you know, a nice car and a clean house and all that. But, you know, there's also this aspect of, you know, being a human and, like, you know, if you have kids, I think that's, like, one of the things, like, I have... You have a daughter. I have, um, a son, and it's like when you're a parent, it kind of, like, makes you realize like, wow, there's this aspect of, like, love that I didn't know existed before. And you can kind of really be there and help, you know, grow this next human and influence that person. And it just kind of... The human experience is something that, you know, you can make it as special as you want. And this aspect of, you know, us being able to have those little quantum breadcrumbs is what I like to call them. Like, if you ever... Have you ever been, like, talking about something and, like, you'll go somewhere, h- h- hear something, and there's, like, confirmation of what you've been talking about? Or, you know, something happens, and you're like, you know, asking a question, then all of a sudden, it pops up, kind of there's the answer. And I think that those little things just mean you're on the right path and doing what you're supposed to do in this bigger picture.

    7. JR

      Yeah. Well, that's a good way to live life if you believe that. That's healthy, smart. Uh, it's like a good strategy. I wonder, like, why some people seem to have, uh... Like, the idea of if it being an emerging aspect of human consciousness, our ability to, like, sense things and know things that are gonna happen or-

    8. AL

      Premonition or-

    9. JR

      ... or know if someone's a liar or a weirdo-

    10. AL

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      ... like, instantly. Those... I always wonder if... I- is it that, or is it that we used to have that, like, before language that's all we had?

    12. AL

      I think that before tech really evolved, there was a bigger aspect of spirituality that actually talks about that. So, like discernment in the Bible, you can talk about, you know, this aspect of being a... People say like, "Oh, if someone has like really bad energy, you picking up on it." There's something to that. Um, but I think that because... And it's really happened, I think, in the last like 40 years where people are kind of forgetting that. But when you actually go back to like, for example, we're talking just now about the Ark of the Covenant, the Ethiopian Orthodox text and all this, there's more of that aspect of spirituality that I think has been removed from society. I think it's actually taken away our ability to really respect one another and, and value human life. And I think that that, you know, from like a Politico perspective influences decision, like you get really pro-war people. Those people are usually not-

    13. JR

      Right.

    14. AL

      ... that spiritual, and they really don't have a value for life in that aspect.

    15. JR

      Yeah. No, th- that's definitely a real thing. That's unfortunate that there, there's a... (sighs) And the fact that those are the type of people that always want to be in power. That's, that's-

    16. AL

      They are.

    17. JR

      ... that's really scary.

    18. AL

      They're the worst type. (laughs)

    19. JR

      That's the, that's probably the scariest part of it.

  13. 51:58 – 1:03:06

    JFK task force work: Russian documents, CIA files, and how narratives get manufactured

    1. AL

      I have, um... I actually had a really groundbreak- uh, groundbreaking conversation. So, like I... The way I'll describe Congress is, you ever have like a job where 80% of it, 90% of it's just like really eating shit?

    2. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. AL

      And then like the 10% is like really cool?

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. AL

      And it makes up for that like 80, 90% that you're just like, "I-"

    6. JR

      That's when I hosted Fear Factor. (laughs)

    7. AL

      Okay. (laughs) Okay. So tha-

    8. JR

      Just kidding.

    9. AL

      Yeah, that aspect of, um, I, I think really exists in politics if you, like-

    10. JR

      Oh, yeah, for sure.

    11. AL

      ... actually care. And I had a meeting recently where I was with two other members of Congress that were helping me with the JFK investigation, and we actually met for the first time since 1990 with the ambassador to the Russian government. And I bring that up because at the time of the JFK assassination, the, um, KGB had actually come forward with their own independent investigation, and they actually gave it at Kennedy's funeral to US officials. We never got those documents, and it's my belief that the CIA actually destroyed that information and evidence because it would have confirmed what this, the KGB... And mind you, at the time, JFK was actually in talks with the president of Russia at that time, and his perspective is that he actually wanted to do a joint mission between the US government and the Russian government to the moon. And there are aspects and divisions within the intelligence community. You obviously saw the Cold War was happening. They wanted war in Cuba. They wanted war with Russia. So, for them to be able to say that Kennedy, who was not a communist, but that he was a communist sympathizer, and how dare he talk to these dirty communists? I mean, that in itself would have given them any ammunition to turn a blind eye or, or at least not fully figure out who assassinated Kennedy. Um, but I bring that up to say that, you know, when you have these pe- people in power, you know, you can see a lot of it in regards to... There's a summit on the 15th actually with President Trump and Vladimir Putin. And I think the aspect of, you know, anytime you have peace and trade, it's way better than war for everyone involved, for the people of Ukraine, for Russia, for the American people, and I think for the surrounding regions. Like, I recently got back from meeting with government officials in Romania and Moldova, and it didn't matter if... And I actually met an actual member of the Moldovan government who's a communist, like an outward communist, and it didn't matter who I talked to, everyone wanted peace. And then when we had met with the European Parliament and the EU, some of them wanted peace, but then the countries that had the shittiest economies, excuse my language, they were the ones that were advocating for war. Well, you have a war-based economy, it always helps your economy. So, if you ha- have terrible policy perspectives, obviously you would advocate for something like that. But it just goes to show that the people that are going through it, the people that are living it, that are directly impacted, no one would advocate for war. And so even just having this conversation, you know, a lot of people even, you know, two, two admin- or administration ago, maybe two administrations ago probably would not have had that conversation, but to be able to develop that dialogue, the end result of that meeting was the Russian government agreed to release their investigation onto JFK that the previous congressional task force in the '90s had tried to obtain from the Russian government, and they said no. So, they agreed to release that, and they'll be posting it publicly for the American people to go through later on this fall.

    12. JR

      Have you seen it yet?

    13. AL

      I haven't.

    14. JR

      No.

    15. AL

      So, I'll be seeing it at the same time everyone else does.

    16. JR

      What do you think is in there if you had to guess?

    17. AL

      So, when I was talking to the ambassador, he's actually...... a history buff, too. And so, he had actually said that the Russian government, when, um, Oswald was actually in Russia, had done a psychological profile 'cause they thought, you know, they were like, "Is this guy part of American intelligence? Like, what's his story?" And they thought he was basically nuts, and apparently he had c- he tried to go hunting, um, when he was out there and they were observing him, and he couldn't shoot for shit. (laughs)

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. AL

      So, so they're like, you know, "He didn't meet our psychological profile." Then, then he shows up to the Russian Embassy in Mexico City with a gun, and they're like, "What the hell?" There's like crazy guys showing up at them. Like, "What's going on?" Um, and then we find out simultaneously as this is all happening, that the CIA, kudos to Director Radcliff, had actually released something called the Joannides File, and George Joannides was actually, uh, he's basically our version of James Bond, but more corrupt. (laughs) And he was basically observing Oswald. He had lied to Congress. This was all in his file. He was then the CIA liaison to Congress during the investigations, stonewalled their investigations, was later awarded something from the CIA. So we have the CIA admitting that they lied to Congress, covered up the assassination ata- or covered up the, uh, investigations. We had admissions from the Warren Commission, um, uh, people that had been subject to the Warren Commission's investigation saying that the Warren Commission engaged in witness intimidation. They omitted evidence. The single bullet theory never exists. The CIA admits that Lee Harvey Oswald was not a lone gunman. People ask, "Well, you know, does this mean that you'll ever get the name of who killed him?" No, because I don't think the CIA was like, "Kill JFK on this day and use this gun and have this person assigned."

    20. JR

      Right.

    21. AL

      But there was evidence of multiple shooters, for sure.

    22. JR

      Well, there had to be multiple shooters. There's, there was injuries, like one of them was to the front of his neck.

    23. AL

      We had testimony to that.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. AL

      And actually, uh, what's interesting is when we first launched the task force, we had left-leaning news outlets that were trying to write hit pieces saying that I was basically launching a conspiracy theory (laughs) task force. And they had to print the truth weeks ago. You can actually pull out-

    26. JR

      Well what is, what is it about people that don't want to believe that some conspiracies are real? What did, what did- is it a comfort thing? Is it you think you're gonna, uh, erode trust in the government? Is it you just have such a rigid worldview and in your mind that there's always been Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, that's what happened, and because of that, anything that challenges your belief system, you fight against?

    27. AL

      Well specifically to JFK for decades, the intelligence agencies were influencing what the print and press was doing.

    28. JR

      100%.

    29. AL

      Now-

    30. JR

      And Geraldo Rever- Rivera, you know, when Dick Gregory brought that film on the Geraldo Rivera Show and you got to see the Zapruder film and you got to see what looks like a shot that makes his head go back and to the left.

  14. 1:03:06 – 1:35:55

    Declassification scavenger hunt: Archives ‘mystery bag,’ WikiLeaks CD-ROM, and RFK/MLK next steps

    1. AL

      ... we have a good mosaic that's been put together with at least the documents that have been released with this administration. And for any outstanding documents, I actually have a team assigned to me from the CIA that is actually helping me chase down these documents. And I've already had some interesting experiences. Like, not creepy, but, um, for example, after President Trump signed the executive order, and Radcliffe has been super helpful, we actually, um, were made aware of this. Allegedly, uh, the, there had been a document that was at the CIA that, um, was a report from the inspector general that had implicated the CIA allegedly in the assassination of JFK. So, I'm following up on this lead and trying to find this report and the Archives is like, "We don't have any documentation of this." The CIA says they don't have any documentation and they've been good with us so far. So, I go to the Archives 'cause they're like, "We found this weird bag though and it's in this SCIF and it's been here for five years and it was left by our former attorney for the Archives, and so we don't know what's in it." And I was like, "Well, go open it." They're like, "Well, we don't have the key and it's in a vault." And I said, "Well, I'm coming over." So, I drive over, literally. I like put my son in the car. I get in the car and I go over to the National Archives. We go into the SCIF, I pull out this bag and I'm like, "Does anyone have scissors?" And we like cut open this little folder and, um, there was a CD-ROM in it, and this has again been declassified now so I can talk about it, but there was this CD-ROM of a ton of wires from the State Department. Um, some of the wires were pertaining to the Kennedy family and it was actually a Wikileaks document. And so I think the reason why it was kept at the Archives is 'cause you're not actually supposed to have these documents on government computers. Wikileaks obviously-

    2. JR

      Oh.

    3. AL

      ... don't happen with that. Um, but here I was like cutting it out of a bag (laughs) -

    4. JR

      That's crazy that they have-

    5. AL

      ... at the National Archives.

    6. JR

      ... that makes sense that you would have the most top secret documents burned on CD-ROMs, that way no one could ever get access to it by hacking into your computer.

    7. AL

      To this day, I don't know even who left the CD-ROM. I don't know. And there's some other stuff in that that I, I don't need to get into. But, um-

    8. JR

      Why don't you need to get into it? (laughs)

    9. AL

      (laughs) Because I don't wanna get in trouble.

    10. JR

      (laughs)

    11. AL

      Uh, but the stuff that was on there was interesting and I think I saw, um, recently Tulsi had actually talked about some of the State Department wires that had been found, um, that, and I think these are the same ones, that had talked about the assassination of RFK. It, they were wires going out from the State Department prior to his assassination, which is interesting. So, our next investigation, so we've done multiple hearings-

    12. JR

      Wh- what do you, what do you mean by that? Like, what were, wh- how did they specifically discuss it?

    13. AL

      Well, that's, I haven't seen the actual wires themselves yet, but what that would imply is that the State Department knew about the assassination before it took place.

    14. JR

      Oh, geez.

    15. AL

      So, and that was something-

    16. JR

      Did you-

    17. AL

      ... she talked about.

    18. JR

      Did you get into the MKUltra stuff at all with Jolly West and-

    19. AL

      So, I look at that on my free time, but that's not the purview of the task force. But there is stuff that you can, again, ci.gov/readingroom, super creepy. I did find a document on the Archives website that actually ties the initial phases of the MKUltra program to Operation Paperclip.

    20. JR

      Oh, boy.

    21. AL

      Interesting. And so-

    22. JR

      That makes sense. Right?

    23. AL

      It is there and I'm, I'm, I'm reading this to my husband, like, "Andy-"

    24. JR

      'Cause for sure, the Nazis were experimenting on drugs with people.

    25. AL

      They were doing a lot of bad stuff. (laughs)

    26. JR

      Oh, they were doing a lot of horrible stuff, but for sure they were experimenting on their soldiers and on, uh, prisoners and they were experimenting on all kinds of people.

    27. AL

      Creepy stuff.

    28. JR

      Yeah, and if we took some of that and applied it, the, the Jack Ruby connection to it is that Jolly West went to visit Jack Ruby after he shot Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby was like pretty rational before then and then after Jolly West leaves, he's like freaking out, seeing things that aren't there. Uh, I think he said something about Jews burn-... he could see Jews burning alive, like-

    29. AL

      It's like a psychosis state.

    30. JR

      Full on-

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