EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,028 words- 0:00 – 0:41
Cold open: Efren Reyes lore, headphones, and a legendary kick-shot mindset
- NANarrator
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) We're up. Yeah, this is, uh, a company called M Theory sent this to me. And, uh, this was when Efren Reyes snuck into America under the nickname Cesar Morales.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, uh, won some big tournament at Red's. Wherever that is. (laughs)
- FGFedor Gorst
Probably in, uh, Chicago?
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't know. Put the headphones on, dog. Let's get rolling.
- FGFedor Gorst
I don't know. I was like...
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't have to. Or we could not have headphones.
- FGFedor Gorst
No, that's good.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do they feel weird to you?
- FGFedor Gorst
That's good. No, no, that's good.
- JRJoe Rogan
You're okay? (laughs) I don't care. It doesn't matter. It's just good if, like, we show a video or something like that.
- FGFedor Gorst
Right.
- 0:41 – 2:35
Coming off a brutal tournament run: US Open finals, travel grind, and being ‘the best today’
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude, you came that close to being two year-in-a-row US Open champion. That fucking close.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, two days ago.
- JRJoe Rogan
How's that feel?
- FGFedor Gorst
I mean, I feel super tired because my schedule has been hectic lately.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
You know, I played the World Championships in Saudi where I also lost in the finals. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you play the Florida Open too?
- FGFedor Gorst
Florida Open.
- JRJoe Rogan
All right.
- FGFedor Gorst
And I played the tournament in between that, so basically I played back to back to back to back four events.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- FGFedor Gorst
Uh, it's been over a month already. You know, staying on the road, constantly playing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude, there's the- the real good argument you're the best player in the world. And if you're the best player in the world, I think you are, you got my vote. If you're the best player in the world today, you're the best player of all time.
- FGFedor Gorst
Well... (laughs) I mean, it's really tough to-
- JRJoe Rogan
A lot of old guys talk a lot of shit, but I'm just saying.
- FGFedor Gorst
Always.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, this guy on my shirt, he certainly gets the, like, as- as far as like the greatest of all time, most achievements of all time, Efren. The Z shot, like all the crazy stuff that he could pull off with the cue ball. It's amazing.
- FGFedor Gorst
Did you see the shot that I made recently?
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, which one?
- FGFedor Gorst
The three rail kick.
- JRJoe Rogan
I did see that, yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
I mean, it- it is tougher. It- it is a tougher kick.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- FGFedor Gorst
It wasn't as- as, uh ... It wasn't as, uh, you know, the situation wasn't like it was a Hill-Hill-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- FGFedor Gorst
... that he played against Earl, you know, in the finals.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- FGFedor Gorst
So it's obviously it's a much, much, uh, different environment, but, uh, the kick that I made was sick. It was sick.
- JRJoe Rogan
It was pretty sick. Well, you know what? The Filipinos put kicking on the map, right?
- FGFedor Gorst
Oh, for sure. They're the best.
- 2:35 – 4:13
Why modern pro pool is harder: tight pockets, table size, and rule-format evolution
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, look, it's a crazy game. And the game that you guys are playing right now, the reason why I said I think if you're the best player today, you're the best player of all time, because the conditions are very different. For people who don't know, who don't play pool, okay, if you're going to a regular bar and you're playing on like a bar table, th- those pockets might be five-and-a-half inches, right?
- FGFedor Gorst
Well, also in US, people are playing on seven-foot tables versus we play on nine.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, in a bar, sure.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're nine-foot tables and the pockets are four inches. And so when you get two cue balls, you try to put them next to each other-
- FGFedor Gorst
You can't even.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and try to st- you can't even get close to sticking them in a four-inch pocket. It's really tight conditions. And I think there's better players now than I've ever seen in my life. And I've been watching pool for 35 years and playing pool for 35 years. I've never seen better players than play today. And I think you're the best today. So in my book, that makes you the best of all time.
- FGFedor Gorst
Well, like you said, the conditions are completely different.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- FGFedor Gorst
The game changed even in the last three years, I think the game changed drastically.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
You know, we went, uh, we changed the breaking formats. It used to be one ball on the spot with the magic rack, no three-point rule, so...
- JRJoe Rogan
All the people at home that don't play pool go, "What the fuck are they talking about?"
- FGFedor Gorst
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
We're talking about professional pool, ladies and gentlemen.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah. Yeah, we have, uh, all kinds of little, little rules.
- JRJoe Rogan
Little lingo. Yeah. The nine ball on the spot made a big difference, right?
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, nine ball on the spot-
- JRJoe Rogan
Because then you don't-
- FGFedor Gorst
... break box.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. When you were showing me today how to break that way, I was like, "Oh, that's crazy." Like, you have to hit it with draw and you have to aim towards the back ball. Like, wow.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, well, we- we can't really say that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. (laughs)
- FGFedor Gorst
... because the other- (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Too late.
- FGFedor Gorst
The others-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- FGFedor Gorst
The others may- (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
The others.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- 4:13 – 5:30
Matchroom’s impact and pool’s social-media boom (plus the undercover pool-hall bit)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's an insanely competitive, uh, game now. And- and shout out to Matchroom, right? Because Matchroom with, uh, DAZN, they've done an amazing job with boxing and a bunch of other sports. But what they're doing with pool is crazy. It's- there's so many events and it's all over... You can get it on the World Nine Ball Tour. It's WNT.tv, right?
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, they- so- so they moved-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the website. Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
I think they moved from DAZN to that- to there subscription-type, uh, platform.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Amazing. It's amazing. And then there's also their Matchroom Pool YouTube channel, which has tons of stuff on it for free. It's like-
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, they are elevating the game for sure, and they are the reason why pool is where it's at today, you know, versus where it was five years ago, I think.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's huge. I- I have friends who send me videos now. Like, people just randomly-
- FGFedor Gorst
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... find videos on TikTok or on Instagram, you know.
- FGFedor Gorst
Pool is booming on social media. And, you know, I- I do my own social media. I have a filmmaker that follows me everywhere. We, you know, try to film as much stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's very funny what you did in New York City, or in Atlantic City rather, when you went to that pool hall and you went under disguise.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that was Matchroom-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- FGFedor Gorst
... Matchroom's idea. I think, uh, it was pretty cheap budget. We could do it a lot better-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- FGFedor Gorst
... especially when we go to Asia, I think. You know.
- JRJoe Rogan
You can't sneak around any pool hall though, dude.
- FGFedor Gorst
Well, if you put me and make me look like a grandpa or something.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- FGFedor Gorst
You know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like you'd have to get into disguise.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- 5:30 – 7:16
Disguises, CIA masks, and why you can’t ‘sneak’ as a famous pool pro
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, their disguises are really good today. Have you ever seen those CIA disguises that they use?
- FGFedor Gorst
Uh-uh.
- JRJoe Rogan
So apparently, this is a story. Apparently, um, and this was told to me by someone who I really trust, Obama was having a meeting with someone in, um, one of the rooms in the White House. And he's in the middle of having this meeting with someone who he's met before and had conversations with before. And then they inform him, "Mr. President, we just want to let you know this is not who you think you're talking to, and we just wanted to demonstrate how good the, uh, special effects makeup is and masks are."
- FGFedor Gorst
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
"This is not that person." And he was like, "What?"Now, I haven't confirmed this. I have ... I don't have Obama's number.
- FGFedor Gorst
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm like, where I can call him up and go, "Bro, is that real?"
- FGFedor Gorst
(laughs) yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But I believe it's real, because I've seen up close, like really in- ... Like, when, um, uh, Tony Hitchcock does Kill Tony, um, sometimes, uh, they have makeup artists that dress people up and make them different people.
- FGFedor Gorst
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, they did a Biden one and, uh, Kyle Dunnigan played Elon Musk, and I didn't even recognize him. I was like, "Who's this guy?" Like, this is, this is this weird guy, like, acting weird. And they're like, "That's Dunnigan playing Elon Musk." I was like, "No way."
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right in front of him. I thought it was just some ... Didn't look like Elon Musk. Looked like a weird guy.
- FGFedor Gorst
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
But it didn't look like him and it looked like a person. It didn't look like a guy in makeup. It didn't look like a mask. It looked like a real person. It just was weird looking. I was like, "This is crazy."
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, that's what we should do, and I think it's going to be-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
... really, really good if we do that in Asia, like Vietnam or Philippines.
- JRJoe Rogan
You got to work on that voice, though, son. You can rush all day with that voice (laughs) .
- FGFedor Gorst
(laughs) I know, I know. I can only be like an undercover, I don't know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
... somebody from...
- 7:16 – 18:22
Rankings vs “true” long races: the Shane marathon matches and gambling realities
- JRJoe Rogan
And for people that, at home, they go, "How could he be the number one in the world if he just lost?" Aloysius Yap should be the number one in the world. He should be the number one of all time. It's like long races are really what's up, right?
- FGFedor Gorst
Well, it's, uh, by the rankings, I'm number one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
By the rankings, and what we have now with Matchroom, it's two years of prize money combined throughout all the tournaments.
- JRJoe Rogan
But I think the real matches that you play, where you really get to see who's the best, and this is only for, like, hardcore pool nerds. The real ones, like the one you did with Shane, was like three days, race to 40 each day, 120 games total.
- FGFedor Gorst
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That way there's no questions.
- FGFedor Gorst
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
After three days and 120 games of pool, you know, possibly 239 games of pool.
- FGFedor Gorst
That's how I almost won the first time we played.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- FGFedor Gorst
'Cause I lost, I lost the first time.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's right.
- FGFedor Gorst
I lost 120 to 116.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- FGFedor Gorst
I was down and up, up and down.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
And last day I was up by almost 15 games, I remember, and he came back and beat me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It was super impressive, but it was even more impressive you coming back the next year and steamrolling him. Like, you, you won by quite a few games. How many did you win by?
- FGFedor Gorst
Uh, by, uh, 42, I think.
- JRJoe Rogan
42 games is crazy.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy.
- FGFedor Gorst
120 to 78, I think that's, that was the score.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that was for ... Did you advertise how much that money was being gambled?
- FGFedor Gorst
We were ... Well, we were advertising that it was for 50, but it was a little bit more.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you had a bunch of other people chumming in, throwing money in?
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah. Yeah. Well, myself included.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you don't want to say the actual total?
- FGFedor Gorst
Uh, I don't know (laughs) .
- 18:22 – 20:54
Pressure mechanics: shot clock, Mosconi Cup chaos, and playing through noise
- FGFedor Gorst
Mosconi Cup is definitely, when it comes to pressure, it's the highest pressure you can ever-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, everyone's screaming and cheering.
- FGFedor Gorst
Every- everyone is screaming.
- JRJoe Rogan
For people that haven't seen it before, most pool tournaments are very, very respectful. People will clap after you make a m- an out, or sometimes in the middle of a m- game, like if you make a really good shot, they'll clap. If you get great position, they'll clap. But as soon as you drop down to shoot the next ball, everybody gets quiet.
- FGFedor Gorst
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mosconi Cup, those rules are d- those rules are off the table.
- FGFedor Gorst
Off the table.
- JRJoe Rogan
People are hammered. (laughs)
- FGFedor Gorst
And sometimes they shark you, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
They would be super loud, and you have a super tough nine ball, and the- everybody would like ... For example, you play in UK-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- FGFedor Gorst
... and, uh, 95% of the crowd is European, so everybody's cheering for Europe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah. (laughs)
- FGFedor Gorst
So let's say I'm on a tough nine ball, and everybody's loud, and then everybody will go like, "Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh," and everybody will go quiet just in a second. And, uh, it's really, really tough to pull the trigger in that situation.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
So it's a, it's a tough environment to play in, but, uh, it- that's what makes this tournament special.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's fun to watch, though.
- FGFedor Gorst
Oh, yeah, for sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
I- I'm so glad that all tournaments aren't like that, though, where you encourage people to be assholes.
- FGFedor Gorst
Oh, yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's kinda weird, though, that they've agreed to only be an asshole for one tournament.
- FGFedor Gorst
Uh ...
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause people yell out in the middle of, like, you str- stroking a ball.
- FGFedor Gorst
Honestly, you see, uh, the crowd getting more engaged and more now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- FGFedor Gorst
Like, you watch the US Open finals, it was loud. When I played Michael Bowden in quarterfinals-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
... it was kinda like that because half of the crowd was Filipino.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 20:54 – 26:18
Soft-break controversy and a simple fix: use a radar gun (plus break-speed history)
- JRJoe Rogan
to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. This offer is for new customers only. Yeah, let's talk about that, because one thing that happened is, there's a rule where you're not allowed to soft break, but soft breaking is basically very subjective. Like, a referee can decide to call someone on it or not call someone on it, and you thought this guy was soft breaking.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you said something and the Filipinos went crazy.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, everybody went crazy. I had to delete my Facebook-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- FGFedor Gorst
... for a couple of days because it was just bothering me. I get- I was getting notifications every second, you know, "Crazy Filipino goes-" ... "Yeah, you were sharking our player. You did that." But yeah, I thought the guy was soft breaking, and the rules state that you gotta make your best effort to make a forceful break. So that's really subjective, and it's up to the referee to make that call.
- JRJoe Rogan
I have a solution to that.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, what are-
- JRJoe Rogan
And it makes it more interesting, too. Radar.
- FGFedor Gorst
Radar, yes. Speed gun.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's a, uh, e- e- easy solution.
- FGFedor Gorst
I agree.
- JRJoe Rogan
Easy solution, and it makes it interesting. It's a new element that you think about.
- FGFedor Gorst
But then, then you also have, for example, juniors or girls. Do you make the rules the same for them, or no?
- JRJoe Rogan
No, it's a good ... Well, you don't pl- they're not playing guys, right?
- FGFedor Gorst
Well, we have-
- JRJoe Rogan
Girls are playing girls.
- FGFedor Gorst
W- well, yeah, but on W and T Tour, we- it's an open tournament, for example.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, right, right, right. Oh, I see what you're saying.
- FGFedor Gorst
Ladies can join, juniors can join.
- JRJoe Rogan
I see, but I w- I thought you were talking about young kids. Um, no. For young kids, you'd have to have an exception.
- FGFedor Gorst
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
And for girls, you'd have to have an exception. But you would just change it, just like, you know ... So whatever the speed is, like what is-
- FGFedor Gorst
18 miles an hour.
- JRJoe Rogan
... what's a, what's a good- what's a good break speed?
- FGFedor Gorst
18.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, what, what do you think you break at? Like, Bustamante in his prime, what was he, like 30 miles an hour?
- FGFedor Gorst
Well, back in the day, it was different. Back in the day, everybody was breaking over 20, 23, 24, 25, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But Bustamante had the craziest breaking of all time.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, Bustamante-
- 26:18 – 41:42
Gambling culture vs pro career paths, plus the physical toll and recovery routines
- JRJoe Rogan
The fun thing to me, uh, about your life is, uh, that you're traveling all over the world playing, and then occasionally you have these marathon gambling sessions that they stream online. And, uh, I've got a, a good buddy of mine, Tommy, uh, from Connecticut. Shout out to my boy Tommy. And you know, he and I, w- we'll like be fucking texting each other, you know, like for three days in a row while these matches are going on. And, uh, I get so juiced up for him. I get so excited about him. But it's like that's the part of the game that has always been the most romantic, the gambling part of the game. And I'm glad that people aren't shying away from that, because it, there was a long, for a long time gambling was thought to be negative for professional pool. That's not the case anymore.
- FGFedor Gorst
Well, it could be. It could be.
- JRJoe Rogan
It could be, sure, 'cause you're bringing in shady people.
- FGFedor Gorst
For sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, if you, if you're gambling $100,000, where'd you get it?
- FGFedor Gorst
Well... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Where'd you get it, you know? Bob the drug dealer came over and-
- FGFedor Gorst
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know, he wants in. He's staking me, and I, if I win I get 40%.
- FGFedor Gorst
But in our case, it's different.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
Like our matches that we make, uh, you know, there's only a couple of them that we did. We played twice with Shane, and, uh, there's also a few one-pocket matches we did. But the biggest ones were with Shane, and, uh, it's only a small group of people. It's basically just, uh, you know, few guys, my managers, me, and same th- same thing from Shane's side. So everybody knows each other.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, for sure in your case. But in the case of like high-level gambling in pool-
- FGFedor Gorst
Oh, yeah, for sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
... there's a lot of, there's a lot of shady characters.
- FGFedor Gorst
For sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a lot of shady characters.
- FGFedor Gorst
A lot.
- JRJoe Rogan
How often do you gamble just in regular life playing pool? Do you... 'cause, uh, does anybody ask for like giant spots or anything like that?
- FGFedor Gorst
Well, everybody's asking for ridiculous games all the time, but, uh, I think my gambling game, my gambling days are over, and, uh, now I'm a tournament player really. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you got too good.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like I w- played you when you were here like two years ago, and, uh, I definitely play better now than I played two years ago, but you play way better. You play even better than you would, were playing then, which is crazy. But you were banking out and making shots. I was like, "This is so humiliating, it's so humbling." (laughs)
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, yeah. I do play a lot better than I did, uh, two years ago, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is hard to believe 'cause you're the best player in the world and you're getting better. That's, that's one of the coolest things to me about any game or any sport, anything, is that... And especially today because there's so much data that's available. Like say if you're a young player and you're learning how to play, you can watch pool on your iPad-
- FGFedor Gorst
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... till 3:00 in the morning. You watch matches, and you learn. You learn how to play things. You learn like what, w- why did he do it that way? Like, "Oh." Then you rewind it and you go, "Oh." That, none of that was available to like Mike Segal back in the day or Nick Varner, those guys.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, there's tons of videos on YouTube, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
There's so much, so much, so much information.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, and you can also, I mean, you can also watch it on TV. I think Metrium. Metrium is showing all those tournaments, all of the majors-
- 41:42 – 50:41
Making pool bigger: Netflix/Matchroom storytelling, ‘Topgolf for pool,’ and Saudi prize-money escalation
- FGFedor Gorst
Two days ago, trailer on Netflix. You haven't seen it?
- JRJoe Rogan
No. What is it?
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, Net- Netflix made a documentary about, uh, Eddie and Barry Hearn. Uh, I think it's about their family and their, their business, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
... I think two or three episodes are about pool.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. Well, that's good. That'll help.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, that's really good.
- JRJoe Rogan
That'll help.
- FGFedor Gorst
Most of it are... is about box- I think boxing, darts, and how they started the company.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- FGFedor Gorst
But pool is a big part of it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, they do darts, too?
- FGFedor Gorst
Darts, snooker, uh, fishing, I think, and, uh...
- JRJoe Rogan
Fishing?
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah (laughs) .
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah (laughs) .
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, fishing tournaments?
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like that kind of shit?
- FGFedor Gorst
Fishermania, I think that's what it's called.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fishermania? It's like bass tournaments or something like that?
- FGFedor Gorst
I have no-
- JRJoe Rogan
What are they catching?
- FGFedor Gorst
I have no idea how it works.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm. I know Shane's a big fisherman, right?
- FGFedor Gorst
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He goes... Ice fishing.
- FGFedor Gorst
Lake trout fishing. Ice fishing-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 50:41 – 1:05:28
Playing for $250K on one rack: World Championship hill-hill nerves, snooker comparisons, and fixing scandals
- FGFedor Gorst
I was shooting an animal for 250,000 once too.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Yeah, that's right.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
Glenn, I was straight in.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. That was crazy. What was that like?
- FGFedor Gorst
I mean, it was a crazy match against Khachi-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
We played, uh, World Championships Finals. He went in the hill first.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it was... Yeah, it was hill-hill. That's right.
- FGFedor Gorst
Hill-hill, he scratches, I get ball in hand. Shaking like a leaf.
- JRJoe Rogan
Were you?
- FGFedor Gorst
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- FGFedor Gorst
It was incredible. I mean, that's the biggest earn we've ever had.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- FGFedor Gorst
Biggest earn I've ever had in my career. You know, we only have so many tournaments that pay those kind of money. And it's really difficult not to think about it when you're playing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
And, uh... Yeah, that's definitely the highlight of my career, you know, making that tough eight ball. I mean, it wasn't tough, but the positional- positional play was tough, 'cause I had to go up and down with the cue ball.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
And I landed right where I wanted to be, so I was straight in the nine ball, no pressure at all.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a good one for people to watch. They're like, "What is this all about?" Watch that one. Watch that one and know that they're playing for $250,000.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yep. And then second place paid 100, so it was 150,000 difference.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a lot.
- FGFedor Gorst
It is a lot, for one rack of pool.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's... And for one nine ball.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the beautiful thing about nine ball, you can run everything and then chunk that nine.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah, game over.
- JRJoe Rogan
(sighs) It's, uh... It's such a mental game. Really-
- 1:05:28 – 1:21:49
Gear deep dive: wood vs carbon, deflection, tapers, extensions, and designing cues (plus jump-cue debates)
- JRJoe Rogan
They play so good. They play so good. And it's also interesting to me that these guys still play with those solid wood shafts. Like, we were talking about that earlier. It's like, new technology has gotten into the game, and a lot of players, like yourself, play with carbon fiber. But it's interesting that a lot of these guys, from Taiwan in particular, they still go with those wooden shafts.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah. Yeah, well, I don't know. Uh, I know that the industry went to carbon fibers, maybe four, five years ago. And maybe some companies were, kinda, like, pushing the players, you know, "You kinda have to make a switch."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Right, right, right.
- FGFedor Gorst
Uh, but I don't- I don't think that's the case now, because now... For example, I find that maybe advantageous to play with a wooden shaft when you're playing in, like, a sticky, sticky pool room in Asia, where the humidity level is super high.
- JRJoe Rogan
Why is that?
- FGFedor Gorst
Just because, I don't know, you can move the cue ball around easier. Or at least, I found it easier.
- JRJoe Rogan
Easier? Interesting. Why easier? 'Cause I've heard the opposite. I've heard it's carbon moves the ball easier.
- FGFedor Gorst
Not in the really sticky condition.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- FGFedor Gorst
I think when we play, for example, major tournaments, everything's brand new, cloth, brand new rails, brand new, um, balls, everything's slick, perfect conditions. Then I think, uh, carbon fiber is perfect. But I think that's the reason why, uh, the Asians prefer wood as well, because the humidity level is just over- over top. It's really, really bouncy.... and that's, that's what they, they used to play back in the day, I guess, and that's what they prefer to this day.
- JRJoe Rogan
(smacks lips) It's such a mind fuck though, isn't it? Because it's like, it's all really what you have confidence with. Obviously, anybody can play really good with carbon fiber, or anybody rather who can play really good with carbon fiber can play really good with wood. It's just, get it into your head what this, this cue does, the way it feels, the kind of deflection it has, and-
- FGFedor Gorst
Oh, it's a lot of things.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you put it in the brain computer. After X amount of months of playing with that cue, and you know what it does.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah. I've been, you know, I've been experimenting with cues, (laughs) maybe not as much as you did, but (laughs) , uh, I've started, uh, testing cues for the company that I was working, I'm working with right now, Triple Sixty. We've d- we've been doing testing for three years, so it, I know everything about, like, the foams, the wall thickness, what the material of the ferrule, the hardness of your tip, the weight, the balance. So there's so many different things that will change the way the shaft plays, and then there's also butt. There's so many different things. It's like a magic wand, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
You have to try, you have to try so many things before you actually understand what you like and what you're looking for. And, uh, it's, uh, it's not a, not a easy process, I would say.
- JRJoe Rogan
I remember I was, uh, going on one of my rucking hikes, where I put a weighted vest on and I, I go for a walk with the dog, and you and I were on the phone. And, uh, 'cause this is how I remember this, 'cause, uh, I was walking through this, this wooded area and you were telling me that the difference between your old cue and your new cue, you said, is a difference of about 5%. And I was like, "5%? Like, how do you know it's 5%?" You're like, "All the ball- balls that I've pocketed, when I, when I think about what it does and what it doesn't do, I think my game is about 5% off," like that-
- FGFedor Gorst
Well, I think, I think it actually... Well, with the new cue, I was winning a lot more. So I used to, I used to put-
- JRJoe Rogan
This was, like, right when you first changed?
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yeah. Well, since then, since then I was winning.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
So I guess, I guess it was the truth.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's... You made it to your specifications.
- FGFedor Gorst
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's the thing about getting it to-
- FGFedor Gorst
Yes, I do play with a longer, longer shaft because I have longer arms.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- FGFedor Gorst
I have long fingers. Uh, I do prefer a longer taper, which doesn't really exist on the market, so I created a shaft with a longer taper, uh, especially for shots like off the rail. Let's say one, uh, the, the, the cue ball's one diamond distance off the rail. That's where you feel that change in, uh, the taper thickness. We have the straight taper in our shaft.
Episode duration: 2:15:58
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Transcript of episode gT5oTp-3VuI
