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Joe Rogan Experience #2373 - Dave Landau

Dave Landau is a comedian, co-host of the "Normal World" podcast, and author of "Party of One: A Fuzzy Memoir." His latest special is "A Prison 10." https://www.davelandau.com https://www.youtube.com/@StuAndDaveDoAmerica https://a.co/d/b7rPGor Go to https://ExpressVPN.com/ROGANYT to get 4 months free! Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the Pick6 app today with my promo code ROGAN Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Help is available for problem gambling. Call (888) 789-7777 or visit https://ccpg.org (CT). 18+ (19+ AL/NE, 21+ AZ/MA/VA). Valid only where Pick6 operates, see https://dkng.co/pick6states. Void in NY, ONT, and where prohibited. Eligibility restrictions apply. Must click link to claim Bag Builder Token. Token must be selected BEFORE placing free entry in Bag Builder contest. Entry must have 6/6 correct Picks to earn equal share of cash prize pool. Tokens are single use and expire 9/8 @ 8:15 PM ET. Max. 6 Tokens per customer. Earn addt’l Tokens via linkshare w/ new Bag Builder entrants and linking Discord account w/ DraftKings. Ends 9/8/25 at 8:15 PM ET. Terms: https://pick6.draftkings.com/promos. Sponsored by DK.

Joe RoganhostDave Landauguest
Sep 2, 20252h 40mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:31

    Shinola, Detroit pride, and the city’s boom-bust transformation

    1. NA

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

    2. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Yeah, dog, what up?

    3. DL

      There we go.

    4. JR

      What's up?

    5. DL

      How you doing?

    6. JR

      Good to see you, brother.

    7. DL

      Good to see you, sir.

    8. JR

      What's crackalackin'?

    9. DL

      Not much. Just rocking the Shinola. (laughs)

    10. JR

      (laughs) I thought that you were talking about your Shinola watch.

    11. DL

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      I'm, I'm glad Detroit's coming back, you know, and I like, I like how Shinola represents.

    13. DL

      Shinola is definitely one of the things that's great about Detroit.

    14. JR

      Yeah, they say it, like, "Made in Detroit." They're proud.

    15. DL

      Yes, which we didn't have for a long time.

    16. JR

      (clicks tongue) Dude.

    17. DL

      Like, some of-

    18. JR

      Detroit is the craziest story. If you know the story about Detroit, like, in the 1950s and '60s, it was the third-richest city in the world.

    19. DL

      Well, yeah, it was called the Paris of the Midwest. And it's a city that's still built for seven million people with supposedly 700,000 living in it.

    20. JR

      (sighs) Psh.

    21. DL

      I mean, so you do see a lot of, like, "How is there, like, a million-dollar condo in the same place that has, like, eight abandoned other apartments?" It's cr- When you go downtown, it makes no sense logistically. How do they-

    22. JR

      Do you ever watch that show Top Gear?

    23. DL

      Oh, yeah.

    24. JR

      With Jeremy Clarkson and the... I think it was, it was either Top Gear or it was maybe the, the, the one they did after that that they did for Amazon. But they went to Detroit, and they bought a house for $500.

    25. DL

      Yeah, you can. And there's also the people that buy them and open the door and get mauled by pit bulls.

    26. JR

      (laughs)

    27. DL

      Or you see the ones that, like, they're, they'll put a, a, like, a pumpkin pa- Like, they'll do an urban farm, which is hysterical, and you'll see, like, these hippies on the news, like, "They cut my face and stole my plums." And I'm sc- It's like, yeah, but you're in a crack neighborhood. Nobody wants your farm.

    28. JR

      No, we're gentrifying.

    29. DL

      Yeah, isn't that what you guys want? And it's like, they don't want that at all.

    30. JR

      (sighs) There's some delusional fucking people out there, dude. And what they did to Detroit, like, anybody that thinks that you should allow corporations to just take all the jobs and move them overseas, "Well, this is just, like, corporate decision-making, and it's prudent financial decision-making," and...

  2. 2:31 – 3:25

    Union protections, quality control jokes, and why automakers fled

    1. JR

      See, that's part of the problem, too. A friend of mine who was in the union told me that the automakers' union just got out of control. They were making so much money, and the, uh, they were constantly in negotiations, there were strikes impending, and-

    2. DL

      Oh, yeah.

    3. JR

      ... and then they were like, "Hey, fuck you. We'll just go to Mexico."

    4. DL

      They offed Tofa? (laughs)

    5. JR

      (laughs) Yeah, they offed Tofa too.

    6. DL

      Yeah. Right, that's right.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. DL

      That's just part of it. But no, like, later on, like you said, in the '80s and '90s, like, you're grandfathered in.

    9. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    10. DL

      And it really doesn't matter what you do wrong.

    11. JR

      Right.

    12. DL

      Like, that's part of the deal.

    13. JR

      Yeah, you can't get fired.

    14. DL

      No, it was great. I mean-

    15. JR

      And you have a great living.

    16. DL

      ... it was great for the worker, but-

    17. JR

      Yeah. There seems to be, like, a middle balance that could be reached.

    18. DL

      Yeah, like, don't be fully hammered when you're trying to put a door on an F-150.

    19. JR

      (laughs) I mean, they should make good money because the corporation makes good money. I mean, it, you know, they were doing well. It was a, uh, v- very profitable business. The workers should share in those profits.

  3. 3:25 – 3:55

    Electric vehicles vs. ‘feeling an engine’ and early-tech tradeoffs

    1. DL

      Well, and, like, the electric ones, they just didn't work for them either. They-

    2. JR

      Oh, the new stuff.

    3. DL

      They pushed it out too soon, too.

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. DL

      Well, 'cause I know people that work on the line, you have, like, the electric F-150, and it's, like, F-150s, the sh- everybody wants one. They love it as a work truck, but as an electric truck, you put the thing down in South America where it's hot all the time, and it's just gonna catch fire. So it's like-

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. DL

      ... it's not really working out. (laughs)

    8. JR

      Or if you're in the cold, the battery sucks.

    9. DL

      Yeah, which-

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. DL

      And I just don't like electric cars personally. Maybe it's just because I'm from Detroit, and I-

    12. JR

      Oh, dude.

    13. DL

      I grew up, and I just want to feel an engine.

  4. 3:55 – 6:29

    Joe’s modified Tesla Plaid and what ‘self-driving’ can (and can’t) do

    1. JR

      I get it, but I have a Tesla that will knock your dick into the dirt.

    2. DL

      Oh, I know they're fast.

    3. JR

      And it, it's not just fast. It's f- The fucking car is incredible.

    4. DL

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      It's a piece of m- machinery from the future.

    6. DL

      What is it?

    7. JR

      It's a Model S.

    8. DL

      Okay.

    9. JR

      But it's a Plaid that was sent to a company called Unplugged Performance.

    10. DL

      Okay.

    11. JR

      And Unplugged Performance takes the fenders off, put carbon fiber wider fenders, changes the suspension to, like, a race-based suspension, puts wide tires on it and wider wheels, upgrades the brakes to these huge carbon fiber disks, 'cause it's a very heavy car.

    12. DL

      I was gonna say, so it's heavier as opposed to lighter like a n- race car?

    13. JR

      Well, it's heavier because Teslas are very heavy-

    14. DL

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      ... 'cause of the batteries, but because the batteries are all on the bottom, the center of gravity in the car is phenomenal.

    16. DL

      Okay.

    17. JR

      It's r- It's, like, one of the best-balanced cars you could ever drive. And the self-driving is bananas.

    18. DL

      Oh, you have it on there?

    19. JR

      I had my bud- Yeah, you get it with the car. I had my buddy Fedor was here the other day, and he had never been in one. So the first thing I always do is merge onto the highway. I'm like, "You ready?" Whoosh!

    20. DL

      Yeah. (laughs)

    21. JR

      But it's co- It goes 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds.

    22. DL

      Are you serious?

    23. JR

      1.9 seconds.

    24. DL

      Oh, that's faster than, yeah.

    25. JR

      And then I go, now this is what's really wacky. I put in the destination-

    26. DL

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      ... and I just say, "Take me to the comedy mothership," and then I press a button.

    28. DL

      Okay.

    29. JR

      And it goes doo-doo. And when I go, it goes doo-doo, it just does it on its own, changes lanes, stops at red lights. It, it, it's crazy. It moves around obstructions.

    30. DL

      Really?

  5. 6:29 – 8:01

    AI companions, chatbots, and the dark edge of online ‘relationships’

    1. DL

      I was watching a movie last night, I can't remember the name of it, um, Companion, and it was just all about, like, sex bots-

    2. JR

      Oh, boy.

    3. DL

      ... and they're, like, hunting them and going at each other, and it's, like, just a- it's a tr-

    4. JR

      It's a movie? Like a f-

    5. DL

      Yeah. It, it-

    6. JR

      Like a fiction?

    7. DL

      It was on HBO. Yeah.

    8. JR

      Oh, okay.

    9. DL

      And, like, they set up a sex bot to kill one of their friends so they can rob him.

    10. JR

      Oh, boy.

    11. DL

      And it turns out she's a sex bot and this other guy's a sex bot, and I'm watching it-

    12. JR

      (sighs)

    13. DL

      ... and I'm like, "This is the problem." Like, yeah, there it is. Like, you can't really give these things personalities if you have a sex bot, I think.

    14. JR

      Well, this is part of the problem that's happening with these chatbots with kids-

    15. DL

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      ... because they're developing relationships with them, and, like, one, one AI chatbot was teaching a kid how to make a noose.

    17. DL

      (laughs) That's not funny.

    18. JR

      Yeah. No, it was a little funny.

    19. DL

      But I had to laugh a little. It's pretty funny. (laughs)

    20. JR

      It's a little funny. It's a little funny.

    21. DL

      It's awful. (laughs)

    22. JR

      The fucking robot is teaching a suicidal kid how to do it right.

    23. DL

      It's already encouraging, like, "You have a good idea."

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. DL

      "Take a rope. Make sure..." Yeah, that's...

    26. JR

      I wonder if any of the woke AI chatbots have talked to any of these trans school shooters.

    27. DL

      They might have.

    28. JR

      You know what I'm saying? Like...

    29. DL

      Well, the last one, yeah, I don't know.

    30. JR

      Bro, it's like seven of the last X amount of trans s- uh, uh, seven in a row have been trans, except one was non-binary, which is just diet trans.

  6. 8:01 – 10:59

    SSRIs, mass shootings claims, and Dave’s attempt to taper off Zoloft

    1. JR

      Yeah. You know, the problem is some people get to a certain point in their life and they have no friends and no community and no identity and no life, and it's not, they're not successful and they feel like shit, and then they have gender dysphoria on top of that, and then they're probably on a bunch of SSRIs-

    2. DL

      Yep.

    3. JR

      ... which RFK Jr. is going to apparently do some sort of a large-scale research into the connection between mass shootings and psychiatric drugs, 'cause it is real, and everyone knows it, and it's just this dirty secret that no one talks about because all the media is paid off by the pharmaceutical drug companies-

    4. DL

      Yup.

    5. JR

      ... and nobody wants to make this correlation, connection, because you also risk the wrath of all these people that are on them saying, "I'm on them and I'm not doing anything."

    6. DL

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      "It's not the pills. I need these to function." Maybe you do. I don't know. I don't know how your brain works. But the reality is, most of these people that have committed mass murder are on psychiatric medication.

    8. DL

      Well, they are, and I'm on SSRIs that I'm trying to get off of right now-

    9. JR

      W-

    10. DL

      ... 'cause I've been on for 10 years, Zoloft.

    11. JR

      Oh.

    12. DL

      And I don't like it. So I hadn't liked it for a long time, and even dealing with, like, mental health care, I'm like, "I don't think I need this," and they're like, "Well, it's better. You stay on 'em." I'm like, "This is odd," 'cause it's having the opposite thoughts, you know? And so I-

    13. JR

      It's having the opposite thoughts, meaning it makes you feel bad?

    14. DL

      It made... Depressed.

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. DL

      It wants me, like, really, like, I gained weight. I was doing, like, really bad mentally for a while 'cause of certain things, and it was... I took myself off of them for five days and I felt good, and then I got really queasy and really nauseous, like my brain started kinda misfiring. So now I'm weaning them be- weaning it off a little more correctly as opposed to just going cold turkey.

    17. JR

      Oh, you're s- so after five days, like, w- what is happening where y- it makes your brain queasy? Like...

    18. DL

      I was stuttering, I was slipping up, I was having trouble seeing, um, I f-

    19. JR

      Did you, like, go online and see if there's any correct way to do this?

    20. DL

      Yeah, they said to wean it off where whatever your thing is, take that, and then bust a pill in half, take that for seven days.

    21. JR

      Mm.

    22. DL

      Bust a pill in half, take that for seven days. And that's what I'm doing now, and I already feel better being on less. But I was told for the last 10 years that that's what I should be on, and I think it's had a, a, a very negative effect to me.

    23. JR

      Oh, yeah. (clears throat) Uh-

    24. DL

      Yeah, but see, brain zaps.

    25. JR

      Brain zaps.

    26. DL

      That's what I mean, like you just feel like you're having a stroke.

    27. JR

      Electric shock-like sensations in the head-

    28. DL

      Yep.

    29. JR

      ... are a hallmark symptom. Other sensations can include tingling or numbness.

    30. DL

      Yep.

  7. 10:59 – 14:34

    Family tragedy and institutional mistrust: mom’s suicide, bipolar misdiagnosis, VA failures

    1. JR

      So, how old are you now?

    2. DL

      I'm 43.

    3. JR

      So when you were 33, you got on them?

    4. DL

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      So what was going on at 33 where you were like, "I need medication"?

    6. DL

      Uh, I went to their... My mom had, uh, died, killed herself.

    7. JR

      Oh, man.

    8. DL

      So I decided to go see a doctor and they were like, "Look, take this," and I'm thinking like... I think my mom was on this. I don't know if this is the best answer, but I took it and it was-

    9. JR

      Your mom was on it?

    10. DL

      She was on, yeah, she was on antidepressants, and she was bipolar. But they had her mis-

    11. JR

      (gasps) .

    12. DL

      They had her misdiagnosed as depressive too.

    13. JR

      Mm.

    14. DL

      'Cause I was like, "I think she's bipolar." And they're like, "How do you know?" I'm like, "You know, I lived with her for 30 years and I know the mood swings." 'Cause I grew up in a house where, like, you came home and she was either the happiest woman on the planet or you were fucking terrified. Like, it was-

    15. JR

      Oh.

    16. DL

      ... one or the other, you know? And that's just, and she wasn't a bad person. She just had this mental imbalance.

    17. JR

      Yeah, yeah.

    18. DL

      And it was after things happened with my dad and, like, th- the government and things like that, so...

    19. JR

      What happened with your dad and the government?

    20. DL

      He was in Vietnam.

    21. JR

      Oh.

    22. DL

      And he got, uh, a soft cell sarcoma from Agent Orange.

    23. JR

      Oh, Jesus.

    24. DL

      And, uh, the VA was great. They did nothing for our family. Uh, they denied both of my mom's claims. My dad lost all of his money. Like, it wa- he was worth like $4 million. I think he lost everything. And, uh-

    25. JR

      Wow.

    26. DL

      ... it was to pay out of pocket, like, when... And he got sick when I was 13, and he was like our baseball coach, everything. So, he would go around the c- like country, going to like, uh... Cambridge had a very good, uh, neurosurgery place for the brainstem. Uh, University of Michigan in Ann Arbor had one. So, he wasn't as present a lot. My mom was dealing with that on top of being an RN. I mean, and he, he was tough as nails. Like, he would have one of those halos drilled in, and he'd still go golfing and shit. (laughs)

    27. JR

      (laughs)

    28. DL

      Like, he'd just be on the course.

    29. JR

      Oh, my God.

    30. DL

      And I'd be like, "What are you doing?" He's like, "It's not bad. I don't pick my head up anymore." It's like a halo... (laughs)

  8. 14:34 – 16:34

    War, heroin pipelines, and corruption stories—from Vietnam to Afghanistan

    1. JR

      ... I think the real reason was heroin.

    2. DL

      I'll give you that, yeah.

    3. JR

      I think that was the real reason. I think-

    4. DL

      Which one-

    5. JR

      ... that's the real reason why we were in Afghanistan as well.

    6. DL

      Oh, I would assume, yeah.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. DL

      Because that's the poppy fields.

    9. JR

      I mean, I don't want to say it's the only reason. I'm sure there's other... There's military reasons. There's, there's rare earth minerals in Afghanistan. There's natural gas. There's a lot of resources in Afghanistan. Um, but there's a lot of heroin coming out of there. That was at one point in time, 94% of the Earth's heroin supply was coming from the place that we were guarding. We were-

    10. DL

      Which-

    11. JR

      ... literally guarding the poppy fields, military, US military, guarding the poppy fields that was supplying heroin to 94% of the Earth.

    12. DL

      That's insane. 'Cause the other part is, there's a part in China, like some of the triangle. I'm trying to think of... It's... Oh, what's it called? But the rest is Afghanistan, and that's how you're getting every drug in the world into the US as far as like-

    13. JR

      Tsh.

    14. DL

      ... you know, actually making opioids.

    15. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    16. DL

      'Cause in the '90s, I worked in a pharmacy, which was a great place for a drug addict, especially when they weren't counting the pills. You could do it by weight. So, you just say, like, "Hey, I gotta go, uh, take out the trash," and you'd just like open up a bottle of, like, Valium or Percocets and just, you know, fill your cellophane.

    17. JR

      The Golden Triangle, the remote jungle-covered border b- region where Thailand, Myanmar, and L- Lao People's D- Democratic Republic meet has been... Has seen an exponential surge in the manufacture and traffic of synthetic drugs.

    18. DL

      Yes.

    19. JR

      So, that's what it is. It's the Golden Triangle.

    20. DL

      That's what I was thinking of.

    21. JR

      And that, uh, I guarantee you, that had a, um... There was a major reason why we were in Vietnam. There was so much money coming out of there. And the idea that some corrupt factions of e- e- either the military or the intelligence agencies or whoever it is. So... And I- I'm not saying the agencies or the military themselves, I'm saying corrupt factions, 'cause there's always gonna be those. Just like when the CIA sold drugs in South Central LA to pay for the Contras versus the Sandinistas. It's all real.

  9. 16:34 – 21:21

    White Boy Rick, informants, and the weird afterlife of criminal branding

    1. DL

      Well, look at Detroit. When you look at White Boy Rick, White Boy Rick was somebody who was caught selling crack, and you had Coleman Young, the mayor, who was pretty corrupt, and then you had the FBI who caught him and said, "Hey, here's some more crack. Just go into the city and find out who the dealers are." Then when White Boy Rick got, uh, brought in by the c- the city, the FBI was like, "We didn't do that. We'd never put crack into a Black community. We don't know... We've never seen this kid in our life." So, this, this kid, uh, who's my cousin's friend, White Boy Rick, ends up going to prison, I don't know the exact time, for like 30 years. He's like 17. They try to name him as a kingpin. And again, he's a white boy in Detroit who's 17. He's not a kingpin of shit (laughs) . And he served the longest time because Coleman Young, uh, was pissed he was dating his niece.

    2. JR

      (laughs)

    3. DL

      So, he goes (laughs) ... He goes away, and then while he's in jail, they, uh, have him sign a thing that said he stole a car, so his sister didn't have to go to jail. So finally, they let him out for all this wrongdoing that he n- that he never did, this ama- this sentence that was batshit. And then he has to go right from that jail to Chicago to serve time for stealing a car while he was in prison.

    4. JR

      Oh.

    5. DL

      His story is crazy. There's a documentary called White Boy, and it's one... Yeah, that's the one with McConaughey, which is a good movie. Um-

    6. JR

      McConaughey was in the movie? (laughs)

    7. DL

      Yeah. McConaughey plays his dad. My uncle knew, knew the actual guy. He said he was like... He said he was kind of a dipshit. He would sell guns very obviously out of his basement. (laughs)

    8. JR

      Oh, God.

    9. DL

      They, they live, like, two blocks over.

    10. JR

      So, is this guy alive now?

    11. DL

      Oh, he's still alive, yeah.

    12. JR

      And is he out?

    13. DL

      Yeah, he's out.

    14. JR

      Is that White Boy Rick?

    15. DL

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      That's him?

    17. DL

      That's him now. He got out-

    18. JR

      Wow.

    19. DL

      ... just a few years ago.

    20. JR

      Jesus Christ.

    21. DL

      So, he was in there from-

    22. JR

      How old is he now?

    23. DL

      Oh, I don't know. Well, he went in in the '80s, so...

    24. JR

      Oh, my God.

    25. DL

      And I think he got out around 2020. So yeah, if you, if you see the documentary White Boy, I highly recomme-... Yeah. See a teenage drug informant for the FBI, but then they denied ever talking to him.

    26. JR

      (sighs) Look at it, it says, uh, above where the Eminem picture is, "White Boy Rick releases his own marijuana strain."

    27. DL

      Yes. (laughs)

    28. JR

      (laughs)

    29. DL

      That's the good thing about Detroit now is it's all, like, insanely legal.

    30. JR

      That's funny.

  10. 21:21 – 26:10

    Weed legality whiplash and why prohibition fuels organized crime

    1. DL

      I wonder if there's, like, weed store wars.

    2. JR

      There's gotta be.

    3. DL

      Dude-

    4. JR

      There must be. They're fighting over profits, if they're all in the same street together.

    5. DL

      Well, I was just in, uh, Albuquerque last weekend and they had the same thing where I'm like, so it's weed store, massage parlor, vape store, buy here, rent here, car lot (laughs) , buy here, pay here, weed store, weed store, weed store. It's crazy how, how legal it is in a state.

    6. JR

      Yeah, it all depends on the state.

    7. DL

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      Right? In Texas, it's just medical and I think you have to have AIDS. I think-

    9. DL

      Yeah.

    10. JR

      ... you have to be basically dead.

    11. DL

      Yeah, they only wanted to give it to the bad, bad AIDS people.

    12. JR

      (laughs)

    13. DL

      (laughs)

    14. JR

      They're, they're expanding that, though. They're lo- looking at expanding that. If the federal government just changed the designation or distinction, or whatever you, you would say it is, like from Schedule I to Schedule III or something like that, which is reasonable, that's what they should do.

    15. DL

      Well, the whole thing is ridiculous. And that's-

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. DL

      ... how you get organized crime. I mean-

    18. JR

      100%.

    19. DL

      Look at Prohibition.

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. DL

      Detroit was one of the first places to have it when, uh, it was three years before they actually made it nationally outlawed. And that gave birth to the Purple Gang, who Capone was even afraid of. And, I mean, those guys were fucking ruthless. And they would just go over to Canada 'cause it was right across the river and they would just either take a boat, or in the winter, they would drive, and then, of course, they'd send some underling to drive to figure out how heavy the ice was, so they knew if they put that many kegs in a thing, you'd, you'd die. So, there's just Model Ts at the bottom of the river.

    22. JR

      Really?

    23. DL

      Yeah, dude, it's cool. A lot of the old mansions still have the tunnels that will lead out into the river that the bootleggers used to use.

    24. JR

      Wow.

    25. DL

      It's really fascinating.

    26. JR

      So, Canada never went Prohibition, huh?

    27. DL

      No, and it was right there. Like, you could throw a rock.

    28. JR

      You just take a drive to Toronto.

    29. DL

      Exa-... Yeah, just go right at the-

    30. JR

      And you're partying.

  11. 26:10 – 30:42

    Fentanyl economics, cartel counterfeits, and why ‘drug safety’ fails under bans

    1. JR

      Because these kids are getting fentanyl, because w- I had this guy Ed Calderon the other day-

    2. DL

      Okay.

    3. JR

      ... who's an expert in the cartels, and he said they started adding fentanyl because they had grown so many poppies that the soil had been depleted, so the heroin was very weak. So, to make the heroin more potent, they started adding fentanyl.

    4. DL

      Is that what it was?

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm. And the desire for all that stuff was all because of the Sackler brothers. So, the Sackler brothers, when, when they created this opiate crisis in America, which did not exist before, where everybody's hooked on these fucking pills, then they start cracking down the laws. So, now you have a demand and you don't have a supply. And then along comes the cartel and starts making pills, and they start making pills with fentanyl in them because their heroin's not that strong.

    6. DL

      Xanax, Percocet-

    7. JR

      Everything.

    8. DL

      All these things that kids don't know they're taking. That's the shit part. And so your, your hand gets-

    9. JR

      And they, yeah, they make it look just like the real pill. Like, "Oh-"

    10. DL

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      "... I know what those are."

    12. DL

      Oh, yeah, you get those pressed Xannies that look just like a bar-

    13. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    14. DL

      And it's just complete fentanyl.

    15. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    16. DL

      And I, when, I remember when fentanyl f- I shouldn't say first came out. It's been around. But it was first started becoming, it, it put it in products you weren't expecting, and I had, like, three friends die within a matter of maybe four months, and that's how I started noticing like, "Well, this is gonna get serious." And now, uh, like, there's a site I s- see, it's called Every 11 Minutes, and that's when, or Every, Every 11 Seconds, and that's how long it takes for someone to OD on fentanyl in this country.

    17. JR

      So, every 11 seconds-

    18. DL

      Every 11 seconds.

    19. JR

      ... a new person is overdosing on fentanyl?

    20. DL

      On fentanyl.

    21. JR

      Phew. Wow. And all because of our stupid laws. And I'm not saying, I'm not saying legal heroin would be good for everybody. It's not, it's not good to do heroin. I think everybody would agree to that.

    22. DL

      Well, yeah.

    23. JR

      No? (laughs)

    24. DL

      (laughs) I did it before once. It was good.

    25. JR

      Was it?

    26. DL

      Oh, yeah.

    27. JR

      What was it like? Did you shoot it or snort it?

    28. DL

      Uh, I snorted it. Uh, well, no, sorry. I snorted it, and then I smoked black tar heroin, and one time I shot it, so three.

    29. JR

      Wow. What was the best one, the shooting it?

    30. DL

      Yeah.

  12. 30:42 – 40:31

    Heroin and performance: Joe’s ‘Waterdog’ pool-hall story and addiction incentives

    1. JR

      I knew this dude, um, in the '90s, his name was Waterdog.

    2. DL

      Okay.

    3. JR

      He was, uh, a professional pool player, like a really high level professional pool player, and he was a heroin addict. And he would go into the bathroom, um... He, like, I saw him play straight pool, which is this game where you're just running balls like you, you... It's called 14 in 1, it's what they played in The Hustler. So you have instead of like-

    4. DL

      Oh, yeah.

    5. JR

      ... eight ball, where the ball's in the center, you, you have a soft break, where you're just trying to not scatter the balls very much. And the idea is to... Eventually someone makes a mistake and you leave an open shot, and that person runs out that rack, leaves one ball on the table, makes that ball and collides the cue ball into the rack and opens up that rack, and then keeps going. And a really good player can run, like, two, 300 balls.

    6. DL

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      So this guy-

    8. DL

      Minnesota Fast.

    9. JR

      ... was playing for $10,000 in the '90s, so it was a lot of money.

    10. DL

      Oh, shit. Yeah.

    11. JR

      You know, I was, I was broke, so I couldn't believe anybody could play pool for $10,000. This guy goes into the bathroom, shoots up, comes out and sits on this, um, this bar stool like this.

    12. DL

      (laughs)

    13. JR

      Just sits there for like 20 minutes, man. Just sat there, and then we were all watching him, like his arms are all curled up like this. And then he got off, screwed his cue together, and never missed. When I say never missed, I mean it was the craziest display-

    14. DL

      (laughs)

    15. JR

      ... of pool I think I had ever seen at the time. He played like the greatest pool player that's ever played. He had no nerves. He c- he couldn't be rattled. The guy he-

    16. DL

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      ... was playing, this guy, George the Greek, who's this degenerate gambler was-

    18. DL

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      ... a really good player too, who's screaming and yelling at him, "This motherfucker, he can't play without the shit. He's got to have that shit to play."

    20. DL

      (laughs)

    21. JR

      He didn't give a fuck. He was listening to him yell.

    22. DL

      (laughs)

    23. JR

      He had eyeballs... His, his pupils were like the size of quarters.

    24. DL

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      And he didn't miss. He just was firing balls in with, like, perfect accuracy, he got perfect position on every ball. It was wild to watch. He was just fully heroin'd up, just running out the table, like, like he saw it in advance.

    26. DL

      Right.

    27. JR

      Like, it was like... He was looking at a math problem that was easy to solve.

    28. DL

      And he's just basically Slow Eddieing, coming back and just knocking it all in, like that's... But it's never been like a performance-enhancing drug, but to that guy...

    29. JR

      Good for nerves.

    30. DL

      Yeah.

  13. 40:31 – 47:05

    Food culture backlash: veganism, fake meat, dyes, and the ‘wrong’ nutrition era

    1. JR

      Wish I could get him off that vegan diet though. Looks like he's fucking wasting away.

    2. DL

      Yeah, that doesn't look good on anybody.

    3. JR

      It's not real.

    4. DL

      No.

    5. JR

      You're trying to be kind.

    6. DL

      I-

    7. JR

      But you're just supporting monocrop agriculture which kills more animals than anything.

    8. DL

      Yeah, I don't want my superheroes vegan.

    9. JR

      Well, he's a nice guy. That's what it is.

    10. DL

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      Nice people wanna do kind things and, you know-

    12. DL

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      ... and sometimes you get roped into a shitty decision making and you're-

    14. DL

      (laughs)

    15. JR

      ... getting all your protein from soy. And they're like, "Why do I have tits?"

    16. DL

      (laughs)

    17. JR

      Like, "Why am I lactating?" (laughs)

    18. DL

      (laughs) Why am I always crying?

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. DL

      I'm very emotional all the time. (laughs)

    21. JR

      And now they're banning lab-grown meat so, like, they, they can't even go to that which I, I mean-

    22. DL

      It's good, right?

    23. JR

      I don't know. I don't know enough about w- the dangers of lab-grown meat. I don't know. I mean-

    24. DL

      I ate a Beyond Burger once 'cause my friend just brought me one.

    25. JR

      That's not lab-grown meat. That's horse shit.

    26. DL

      It was awful.

    27. JR

      Those are terrible.

    28. DL

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      Those... They, they're in trouble because those people, like their stockholders all fucking went crazy-

    30. DL

      (laughs)

  14. 47:05 – 56:26

    Injuries, risk tolerance, and America’s lawsuit reflex

    1. NA

      Whoa!

    2. DL

      Dude, it was always-

    3. JR

      Woo.

    4. DL

      ... always bad.

    5. JR

      Woo.

    6. DL

      Like, we didn't have mountains in Michigan, but we did have big enough hills. Like, I went skiing. We did a lot of skiing when we were real young. And then I went down a, it was like a double black diamond, I think they're called.

    7. JR

      Oh my God.

    8. DL

      Yeah, I was like, "I got this." And my ski got stuck in a soft mogul and I just went down it on my face.

    9. JR

      Woo.

    10. DL

      It looked like eight dudes beat the shit out of me.

    11. JR

      Oh my God.

    12. DL

      Like, I was just, like, all scarred and bleeding. And then I just didn't ski much after that.

    13. JR

      I got a concussion a few years back and I stopped skiing. I'm like, "I'm done." I got a concussion and I got what's called an insufficiency fracture on my shin. Some lady didn't know how to ski and she slid into the trail, like, sideways, like doing this thing.

    14. DL

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      And I, I-

    16. DL

      (laughs)

    17. JR

      ... had two choices. Either destroy this lady or wipe out hard. And I took the second choice and got a fucking... I banged my head off the, the ground.

    18. DL

      Oh, shit.

    19. JR

      It was bang. I heard this... And I had a helmet on, but it was still... The-

    20. DL

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      The bang was loud and I was dizzy for the rest... I t- 100% got a concussion. And I was, I didn't feel right for the rest of the day. And then I was like, "I'm done. This is not worth the thrill." Everybody I know has a torn ACL from it, a concussion. My grandpa died, you know.

    22. DL

      Oh, God. I'm sorry. Yeah.

    23. JR

      No, no.

    24. DL

      Oh, no. Oh. I didn't know if you meant your grandpa. (laughs)

    25. JR

      I mean, you know what I mean? Not my grandpa.

    26. DL

      Yeah, but no, they do though.

    27. JR

      They all have stories.

    28. DL

      Well, yeah, they all have this-

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. DL

      Like, somebody knows a Sonny Bono who just-

  15. 56:26 – 1:48:49

    Dogs, wolves, bears, and ‘ballot-box biology’—when humans meddle with ecosystems

    1. JR

      Pit bulls are tricky dogs though. They're tricky.

    2. DL

      My brothers had ones where... Yeah. He's-

    3. JR

      I've had a bunch of them.

    4. DL

      He's rescued a couple. And I've had friends who have saved them in Detroit from fights.

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. DL

      Where, 'cause they would throw 'em in a back alley, the losers-

    7. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    8. DL

      ... and sometimes my friends would take 'em.

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. DL

      And get 'em sewn up and keep 'em. But those dogs specifically would kind of only be left to- alone for the- the owner.

    11. JR

      Right.

    12. DL

      Like, my friend would keep it just for him, like, locked up.

    13. JR

      Well, they're usually fine with people.

    14. DL

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      Um, the real issue with pit bulls is dogs and children. They think of children as animals. They don't know that a child is a person. At least it seems like they don't, 'cause they attack kids.

    16. DL

      Well, and children don't know dogs are animals sometimes. And that's kind of how I treat w- with my kids. Like, you have to understand that-

    17. JR

      Right.

    18. DL

      ... you know, like, when you're roughhousing or whatever, like, there's a, "You gotta be real careful, because it- she might not necessarily know what you're doing." You know?

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. DL

      And he learned that at a young age, and dogs love him, but-

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. DL

      ... a lot of times, kids can be really, really rough with dogs.

    23. JR

      Yeah. They can be, sure. Especially if they don't grow up with them, they don't know, and they're not taught. But, uh, the thing is, like, if you have a sweet dog, like I have a golden retriever-

    24. DL

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      ... and if my kids thought all dogs were like my dog, and then they went up to another dog and grabbed his face, that dog might bite your fucking face off.

    26. DL

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. DL

      And goldens are the best.

    29. JR

      They're the best.

    30. DL

      Like, they're just designed to be the sweetest animals on the planet.

Episode duration: 2:40:20

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