Joe Rogan Experience #2376 - Brigham Buhler

Narrator 0:00 (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Brigham Buhler 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Narrator 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music)

Brigham Buhler 0:12 What up?

Joe Rogan 0:13 What up, dog? How are you?

Brigham Buhler 0:15 W- we're back.

Joe Rogan 0:15 We're back again. How many text messages have we been exchanging back and forth where we're like, "What the fuck?"

Brigham Buhler 0:23 Oh, it's nuts. It goes so deep.

Joe Rogan 0:26 It goes s- it-

Brigham Buhler 0:26 (laughs) It's so deep.

Joe Rogan 0:28 This w- this is, to me, this is one of the most exciting moments in bl- in, in terms of like, p- politics, in terms of like, who's in control. Like, having RFK Jr. at the helm of the HHS and having him, like, really pushing to get peptides through, really pushing to stop all this bullshit that's been going on and, and seeing all these fucking roaches coming running out when the lights come on.

Brigham Buhler 0:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:59 It's been crazy.

Brigham Buhler 1:00 It's definitely been crazy, and, and for anyone who doesn't know my background 'cause if they haven't heard our previous podcasts, you know, I started out as a drug rep for Eli Lilly and I did that for three years, so I saw behind the curtain. This was right outta college, and then I was a med device rep, and then I owned labs, blood labs, toxicology labs, I, uh, pharmacogenetic labs. I tried to go educate clinicians on all this preventative care stuff within the insurance framework, within the system, and I was ... I've been blowing the ... You and I did, I think, the first one four years ago where I was trying to blow (laughs) the whistle on there is a lot of corruption, collusion and corporate capture throughout every one of these organizations, top to bottom. Every alphabet organization whether we're talking the EPA, the CDC, (laughs) uh, the NIH, the FDA-

Joe Rogan 1:47 Did you see the guy from the CDC that just resigned?

Brigham Buhler 1:50 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:50 The guy who-

Brigham Buhler 1:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:52 ... he has a, like, literally a pentagram dog collar thing on his chest. Do you know this guy?

Brigham Buhler 1:59 Oh, I know, I know which you're talking about.

Joe Rogan 2:00 This fucking-

Brigham Buhler 2:01 Yeah, I've seen it.

Joe Rogan 2:01 ... freak who's upset that they're not giving babies hepatitis B shots.

Brigham Buhler 2:04 I saw, he literally in an interview yesterday said his biggest concern is that they're gonna get rid of hepatitis B shots. Children aren't having sex or shooting up drugs. Why do they need a hep B shot?

Joe Rogan 2:15 Because they're paying.

Brigham Buhler 2:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:16 'Cause hep ta- hep, hep B shots are paying.

Brigham Buhler 2:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:20 They're paying.

Brigham Buhler 2:20 Well, and that's the-

Joe Rogan 2:21 It's money.

Brigham Buhler 2:21 ... the problem is as, as you, like, systematically walk through these systems and the history of each one of these organizations, I can show you time and time again. And I went from, you know, coming on this podcast and trying to educate people on the importance of taking themselves out of that system, doing blood work, getting proactive and predictive, preventing chronic disease, don't put your hands in the fate of these broken systems, and that led to getting to meet RFK and being a part of the MAHA Movement, testifying in front of the Senate, and then I've testified at the state level and Joe, (laughs) the fucking level of fuckery and shady shit that I've seen now behind the scenes getting line of sight into the government side 'cause I didn't ... I was on the outside in the periphery somewhat aware of the government stuff, but now having got behind the curtain, dude, it runs so much deeper and it's so much darker and it's so much more controlled than I ever realized.

Joe Rogan 3:19 Well, it's all money, man, and there's so much money. I mean, it, it, it has to be one of the biggest industries in the country, right?

Brigham Buhler 3:26 Oh, it i- I think HHS and e- even, even HHS which all falls under Secretary Kennedy now, I think it's between 70 and 80,000 people, right? And so when people are asking how do ze- h- why aren't we moving faster, why aren't we doing this, why aren't we doing that, it's like, you're trying to move The Titanic. There's all these divisions within HHS, the CDC, the NIH, the FDA, and it's Whac-A-Mole, and every day a new fire pops up, and every day you've got industry lobbying, politicking and moving chess pieces to obstruct, delay, deny, depose and prevent any sort of change. And you've got legacy employees. There's literally ... There is literally a memo at the NIH that's being circulated around about how to subvert and ignore President Trump and Secretary Kennedy's mandates which isn't President Trump and Secretary Kennedy. It's the American people's voice. The American people voted for change. We're over the corruption. We're over the collusion. We're over the corporate capture. And-

Joe Rogan 4:28 And for m- most people that I know, this was one of the biggest factors in, in this administration, like voting in-

Brigham Buhler 4:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:36 ... Trump. The ... One of the biggest things was getting Kennedy in there.

Brigham Buhler 4:40 Same, yeah. I, I b- I believe that the MAHA moms and this healthcare movement and the frustration with the broken healthcare system was a, a, a deciding factor in Trump winning this election. And my fear is if we don't keep the pressure up at these midterms, it doesn't matter Republican or Democrats. Historically, both sides have been corrupted, uh, and both sides have made catastrophic mistakes. Uh, and if we walk through (laughs) , like, each one of these organizations, like back to the ... even the FDA. Okay, so most recently I'm in Europe and I've got eyes and ears everywhere. Are you telling me where the best place to start is? 'Cause I wanna ... I d-

Joe Rogan 5:20 No. Go with that.

Brigham Buhler 5:20 There's so much ground to cover.

Joe Rogan 5:21 Go ahead. Go.

Brigham Buhler 5:22 Okay. So, uh, Secretary Kennedy set up a meeting for me with the FDA back in January and he said, "I want you to come with an open mind, open heart. They're gonna do the same, and I want you to just sit down and lay out for these folks what you've seen, what you've experienced, and help them understand what compounders, telemedicine companies, stem cell companies, regenerative medicine practices, cash pay practices across the country are experiencing because of the FDA's choices and decisions made in a vacuum." And so I went to this meeting, flew to DC, sat down with all these folks. They're taking notes. They all seemed really friendly. There was probably eight or nine people in the room, and I left there, and a day later ... And I ... And, uh, and everyone's like, "How do you think it went?" I said, "They seemed very receptive, like, everyone was nice. Everyone smiled and everyone was ... just seemed friendly." Hand to God, I get a call from a person at the FDA-... and they say, "I want you to know, they're gonna smile. Fuck you." And I said, "What?" And this person said, "They're gonna smile. Fuck you." And I go, "What do you mean?" "They're gonna smile to your face, and they're gonna ramrod all the things that you went in to talk to them about." So, like, one of the things that I wanted to talk to them about was the GLP-1s. Forget whether good or bad. Let's just shelf that for the moment. GLP-1s have their origination at the National Institute for Health.

Joe Rogan 6:49 Let's explain to people, that's Ozempic, Wegovy-

Brigham Buhler 6:51 Yes, correct.

Joe Rogan 6:52 ... those weight loss peptides.

Brigham Buhler 6:53 All, all these blockbuster weight loss peptides. But it's bigger than them being a weight loss peptide. They fall under the category of peptides, and it's a slippery slope, because if we allow the pharmaceutical industry to capture peptides, it will shut down all future innovation of peptides for compounding pharmacies, for telemedicine, for any of these things.

Joe Rogan 7:15 Unless they have patents on it.

Brigham Buhler 7:16 Correct. And, and you and I talked about this the last podcast, and I was spot on. All the things I was telling you, I have now confirmed, having gone to meetings with the FDA. I said in that meeting, I said, "You g-" So what happened is Eli Lilly is now one of the largest makers of this weight loss peptide. It's, it's essentially Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly. They have lobbied hard with the FDA to say, "We can meet the needs of the American people. There is no reason why anybody should be compounding any of these peptides. They're dangerous. You guys don't inspect compounding pharmacies. There's no FDA oversight. These products are made in garages and there's no, uh, FDA ingredients in them. They're not the same product." XYZ, just go down the list of all those narratives that they're spinning to the FDA. And when the FDA's only hearing one side of the story, and 60% of their funding comes from industry, what you will see is time and time again, they side with industry. So the FDA defaulted right before, to their generic answer, right before Secretary Kennedy and Donald Trump took control, they ex- expired the exemption that was allowing compounding pharmacies to make cost-effective alternatives that patients could utilize. And this is crucial. The reason that you're seeing side effects, the reason you're seeing this cascade effect of issues, is because they are not treating patients with the most efficacious dose for that patient. They're treating patients with a dosage that reimburses the highest reimbursement rate on the insurance formulary. And I can prove this. They are overdosing people under, like, literally they're not taking the time to do the consult, to educate the patient on diet, lifestyle, and nutrition. There is zero doubt that GLP-1s are over-utilized in America. There's zero doubt that they should not be a front line defense. There is zero doubt that they don't come with some sort of risk factors. But most of those risk factors are found in higher dosages. So why would you start a patient on a higher dosage? Why would you rapidly titrate them up to a higher dosage, where you're causing catastrophic muscle loss? It's because it reimburses more. It's not because it's what's better for the patient.

Joe Rogan 9:29 Jesus.

Brigham Buhler 9:29 It's 'cause it's what's better for Wall Street.

Joe Rogan 9:31 Jesus Christ.

Brigham Buhler 9:32 Okay. And then their answer is, "Compounding pharmacies, we titrate at a lower dosage. We're unique to the patient, so what we try to do is start you at a micro dose. And then also what we do is comp- compound it and add other, uh, peptides." So, like, one example of, uh, they're literally working to patent a combination of a GLP-1 and IGFLR3. We've been making that for five years, like four years.

Joe Rogan 10:01 Say that again. Uh, GL-

Brigham Buhler 10:02 So GLP-1-

Joe Rogan 10:02 What is an IGF?

Brigham Buhler 10:03 ... the weight loss ... And IGF, insulin growth factor, LR3, time released insulin growth factor. And the reason being, IGF preserves lean muscle mass.

Joe Rogan 10:11 Oh.

Brigham Buhler 10:11 IGF preserves bone mineral density. IGF helps reduce visceral fat. IGF has a cascade of benefits that allow us to micro dose a GLP-1 at a much lower dosage, where you don't get the muscle wasting.

Joe Rogan 10:25 Ah.

Brigham Buhler 10:25 And so this compound in trials right now is showing 20% body fat loss, and it, or 20% l- uh, loss relative to the GLP-1s, but all of it's body fat. Almost all of it is fat. You're not losing the muscle.

Joe Rogan 10:39 Oh.

Brigham Buhler 10:39 And compounders are already making this stuff, right? And so where I'm going with this is Lilly lobbies the FDA, and, and Novo Nordisk, and they say these drugs are dangerous. Let's look into that. Step one, Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk both have warning letters from the FDA for their manufacturing facilities. Novo Nordisk was cited as having cat hair and pest activity. I don't know if it's rats, if it's roaches, in their sterile rooms. This is the FDA's own inspection. Eli Lilly has been cited time and time again for its egregious actions, destroying records, hiding clinical data, a barefoot woman in their sterile room. The FDA uncovered all of this through whistleblowers. Furthermore, there's over 2,000 major pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities that have not been investigated in five or more fucking years. And so my message to the FDA was, one, "You're wrong. You've inspected me three times in 18 months." Two, "Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk are not making a safer product. They're not at a higher level of manufacturing specs. You guys look at them less often than you do compounders. And they don't make dosages unique to patients. So we're titrating dosages down, allowing patients to optimize the benefits, minimize the side effects, not a one-size-fits-all approach." And then last but not least, "It's cash pay. We aren't billing insurance carriers. We aren't billing Medicare, Medicaid, and we're not charging $1300 a month average wholesale price. We're able to ship these products for a couple hundred bucks to your doorstep with a nutritional consult." And so it's a better mousetrap. And what you'll see time and time again, is if industry's getting beat, if big pharma's getting beat, they just change the rules to the game.And so, wha- wha- where this is going though, is so much bigger and grander, Joe. So, th- I asked the FDA, "What made you think that this is no longer on a backlogs list?" Because it was an emergency backlogs list. So, the FDA provides a list every year where they tell compounders, "We can't get these drugs. We need you to compound these drugs." Think of it like the bat signal.

Narrator 13:00 Right.

Brigham Buhler 13:01 Bat signal goes off, we jump to it, we start compounding those drugs. The exemption expired under Biden, right before Secretary Kennedy and Trump took control. The old regime at the FDA ramrodded it through. Now it's an- not exempt. Now 503B pharmacies cannot compound it 'cause they don't make patient-specific, which means a lot of those products are no longer available. But they did that decision based off the fact that these crucial diabetic patients would be able to get the drugs they need. This is where the plot thickens. We called over 30,000 pharmacies for 12 months. I turned all of this in to the FDA. Less than 6% of the lower dosages were available for patients, which meant what? They had to go to the higher dosages, which meant what? All of these programs get billed a higher reimbursement rate, a higher billable rate. Eli Lilly and Novo aren't mad that compounders are making the product. They're mad that they're getting exposed for the corruption, collusion, and manipulation of our healthcare institutions time and time again, and it's gonna get 10 times worse as I lay (laughs) this out for you.

Narrator 14:14 So-

Brigham Buhler 14:14 But I'll pause for questions.

Narrator 14:15 Okay, so pause right here. So, what is the response to this? So, you lay out this information. What can be done?

Brigham Buhler 14:22 Yeah.

Narrator 14:23 And what is the response?

Brigham Buhler 14:23 So, they all ... They, they were friendly. They smiled, they were jocking down notes. One of the head clin-

Narrator 14:28 Probably drawing dicks.

14:29 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 14:30 (laughs)

Narrator 14:30 Probably drawing a bunch of dicks.

Brigham Buhler 14:31 One of, one of the clinicians from the FDA, uh, candidly who's never practiced medicine, i- said, "There's no medical need for peptides in this meeting." And he's like, "But today, we're gonna talk mainly about GLP-1s. There's a need for GLP-1s." Okay, I dig in. Where did this guy do his, uh ... He, he's a, he is a clinician, but his first stint in politics was in the State of Indiana, in Indianapolis, Eli Lilly's headquarters. I worked for Eli Lilly. In- ... Eli Lilly owns the State of Indiana. E- and they absolutely own the state, or the city of Indianapolis. And this guy did his first stint, uh, in politics under a congresswoman, congressman, sorry, in the State of Indiana in Indianapolis. And this congressman has released multiple, multiple tweets and messages, and attends Eli Lilly factory openings-

Narrator 15:26 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 15:26 ... and is a huge proponent of Eli Lilly. And this is just one example of the issues with that system. You have-

Narrator 15:33 It's also the statement that peptides have no medical use when GLP-1s are fucking peptides.

Brigham Buhler 15:38 That's literally what I said. That's lit-

Narrator 15:40 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 15:40 I said, "You do understand that a GLP-1's a peptide?" Insulin is a peptide.

Narrator 15:44 (laughs) Yes.

Brigham Buhler 15:45 There are over 150 peptides that big pharma is attempting to patent right now, because the future of medicine is peptides, and here's why. Uh, we don't ... We aren't compounding a drug. We're taking something found naturally in nature, a signaling cell found in your body, just like stem cells, just like amnion, just like all of these crucial building blocks to our health and longevity, that are deficient in our foods, deficient in our diet, deficient in our lifestyle. We don't get enough sun, we ha- have too much screen time, we're inactive, and all of that shit's tanking in our bodies. Shocker, right? And as we age, the- there's a precipitous decline in peptides, in building blocks. One example, GHK, copper peptide. We know we have roughly 30 to 40% of the level of GHK in our bloodstream in our 40s that we had in our teens. Why is that important? It's an important signaling cell that tells your body that you're young. Your cells are young, your skin's elastic, heal this injury, heal this wound, reduce this inflammation. Right? It's safe, it's benign, it's found in nature. We're synthesizing that. That's what peptides are. And big pharma got beat to the punch by compounding pharmacies, and compounding pharmacies have an array of peptides in their tool belt. And the war on peptides has gone beyond the GLP-1s, and this is what I wanted to explain. So, it's very complicated and I gotta make sure I nail this right, because it's important for President Trump to understand this. President Trump, the art of the deal, the master negotiator, is attempting to play hardball with big pharma, and he is gonna negotiate a deal for best-in-class, b- best-in-the-world drug pricing for the American people. And that's very admirable, and I respect the hell out of him for trying to get it done. But the devil is in the details, and my fear is historically, big government has been co-opted and colluded by pharma. And when they're not able to pull a lever and move a chess piece, they outmaneuver them, and it's already happening. Eli Lilly's CEO announced he's going to raise the prices of drugs in Europe to offset the price reduction in America.

Narrator 18:00 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 18:01 But what that really means is-

Narrator 18:03 Ugh.

Brigham Buhler 18:03 ... we're not gonna get the price concession that Donald Trump, President Trump is working for. Right? Because what he's doing is the same thing we already see with the pharmacy benefit managers that I've explained on this podcast before. The PBMs artificially inflate the price because they get a rebate on the backend from the big pharmaceutical companies that's hidden, that's not disclosed to the public. Then, when they negotiate a deal with Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE, they tell the government, "We're giving you 30% off." You're giving us 30% off a bullshit price that you created 'cause you set the market. And if we give these people a monopoly, we already know where it goes. We can see it time and time again.Eli Lilly's price of go- production on insulin became one tenth of what it used to be, and they charged 10 times the dollar amount of r- the retail price of insulin. And I've, on, also, Jamie, on any of this stuff, on the Ways to Well website, I did the JRE experience, uh, links again, because I'm referencing so many things that people are gonna say, "No way!" So Lilly literally- So go to ways2well.com and... And, and there's JRE links. Okay. Uh, there's a links page where I reference everything I'm talking about. There it is.

Joe Rogan 19:15 The wait is over. Two pound-for-pound kings, one epic showdown. Canelo versus Crawford going toe-to-toe at last. And DraftKings Sportsbook is in your corner from the opening bell to the final blow. From the opening bell to the judge's final call, DraftKings has you covered with odds on knockouts, total rounds, method of victory, and more. Never bet on a fight before? Easy. Open the app, look for something simple like who will win, and make your pick. And it's not just fight night. Football is on tap this Sunday too. One app, all the action. New customers, this one's for you. Bet $5 to get $200 in bonus bets instantly when you sign up today. DraftKings Sportsbook is the home for fight fans and football Sundays. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use the code ROGAN, that's code ROGAN, to get $200 in bonus bets when you bet just five bucks. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

Narrator 20:16 Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. In New York, call 877-8HOPEANDY or text HOPEANDY 467369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over, age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Fees may apply in Illinois, void in Ontario. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co/audio.

Brigham Buhler 20:46 President Trump is, is attempting to go shape these pricing. This is where I'm... Industry's already moving the needle. That's just one piece of it though, Joe. Here's where it gets even more fucked up. This is how crazy this shit is. It just happened with thyroid medicines, okay? D- a- animal-derived thyroid has been around since 1890. We have compounded it for over a decade. I have had not one adverse event in a de- not fucking one. We sit- we ship 6,000 bottles of medication a day at my pharmacy, Revive. We have had minimal side effects in literally over a decade. Big Pharma has lobbied the FDA to say, "These thyroid medicines are dangerous. We need you to shut down animal-derived thyroids." Why? Because they're attempting to launch a thyroid medicine, and they want the thyroid labeled as a biologic. Why would you label it as a biologic? Because by labeling it as a biologic, you subvert President Trump's mission to reduce the price of a drug, because it's not a drug. I'm selling you a biologic, so now I can bend you over the barrel and screw you again on the price. Here's where it runs even deeper. (exhales) This is where it gets crazy. A patent on a drug is usually five years. Do you know what the patent life is on a biologic? 12 fucking years. So Eli Lilly, all of the Novo Nordisk, all of these entities are attempting to put pressure on the FDA to reclassify drugs as biologics. They want GLP-1s as biologics, they want HCG as biologics, they want all of these amazing compounds that we've been providing for people for over a decade to all be reclassified as a biologic. And that is the fucking straw that will break the camel's back, the final death blow to telemedicine and compounding pharmacies. Because the third part of the equation is, you cannot compound a biologic. The FDA stance is, it is illegal for me as a compounder to compound a biologic. So now you give a monopoly to Big Pharma, you get rid of all price competition in a market where the president's main goal is to reduce the price of drug costs. If you wanna reduce the price of drug costs, the way you do it is through competition, and we saw it with the GLP-1s. The only price concession that any of these motherfuckers have given the American people in the last 20 fucking years is because the pressure of an open market. People quit going and buying these retail drugs at $1300 a month because they couldn't get the dosage they wanted. They're getting titrated up to these mega dosages that are causing muscle wasting, bone mineral density loss, loss of vision. There's a $2 billion lawsuit against these scumbags right now. And I'm sorry, I've, I've bit my tongue historically and tried to be, like, politically correct to an extent on here, but I can't do it. Like, this is insane. And I go back to if RFK and, and this administration was not in power, all of this would have just happened. So I tets- texted th- texted the secretary and his team and I said, "I have to ring the bell on something." And I've educated them on what's happening and all the moves that are being made. And the FDA was reviewing in a court document that nobody knew about, this is the problem with having 70,000 employees, there are legacy employees that have tight collusion relationships with industry that have been there 20 fucking years, that they're gonna do what you let them do. And their offense is you run the Big Pharma offense. We're gonna, we're gonna obstruct compounders, we're gonna prevent telemedicine, we're gonna push people back to sick care, we're gonna launch drugs into the marketplace. And let's look at the history of safety, Joe. If we look at, a- and I'm, I'm gonna keep hammering on Lilly. Lilly, in a lawsuit against Mochi Health last week at a f- at a federal judge,... is suing Mochi for using GLP-1s for weight loss, and their claim is, "You are violating our patent," which you're not, because it's patient unique. "You are, uh, and it's a peptide, which is naturally found in the human body, and you didn't create the peptide, the NIH did, our taxpayer dollars 'cause we fund the NIH." That's where all of these originated. Out of the last ... There's so much, but ou- out of the last 210 blockbuster drugs between 2010 and I think 2016, 210 blockbuster drugs, how many of those do you think big pharma, started at big pharma versus started at the NIH?

Joe Rogan 25:21 Ooh. I would bet most of them started at NIH.

Brigham Buhler 25:25 100% of the compounds that became blockbuster drugs had their roots at the NIH.

Joe Rogan 25:32 So, taxpayer funded, and then these pharmaceutical drug companies get a monopoly on them.

Brigham Buhler 25:38 Boom.

Joe Rogan 25:39 Wow.

Brigham Buhler 25:39 And then we get rammed in the ass for the next, if they get what they want.

Joe Rogan 25:43 And we fund it.

Brigham Buhler 25:43 The next 12 years.

Joe Rogan 25:44 And we fund it?

Brigham Buhler 25:45 100%.

Joe Rogan 25:46 Wow.

Brigham Buhler 25:47 And the, so the FDA, my argument to the FDA in this-

Joe Rogan 25:49 What a scam.

Brigham Buhler 25:50 It's nuts.

Joe Rogan 25:51 What a scam.

Brigham Buhler 25:52 And my argument to the FDA in this meeting was, "These compounds are safe." One, they're safe. They're, they're naturally occurring in nature, they're prescribed under the supervision of a board certified clinician, they're compounded at a compounding pharmacy that is inspected by the FDA, right? That you've inspected me three times in 18 months. All of our API and ingredients are sourced from the same exact suppliers as Novo and Lilly and all of the big pharma, pharmaceutical cartels. We all buy the ingredients from the same places. The only difference is, and this is what I told Secretary Kennedy and the FDA, the difference between me and Novo and me and Eli Lilly is I actually manufacture and produce my product here on American soil and employ over 500 hardworking American people. Ask big pharma why they're moving all their facilities to India and Ireland. To escape the scrutiny of the FDA. They don't want you in their factories. They don't want you able to challenge them or stifle their ability to print cash. Right?

Joe Rogan 26:56 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 26:56 I can't play by those rules. I can't jockey that. The State of Texas is currently suing Eli Lilly. This came out, Ken Paxton sued Eli Lilly like three weeks ago, uh, because of fraudulent activity where they were providing kickbacks to providers, and this is important too. If you have a clinician and you go to your doctor and they will not prescribe you a medication, you need to understand, you the patient get to decide where that prescription goes. Not your doctor. That is not your doctor's decision. So when a doctor says, "I'm not gonna let you go to a compounding pharmacy," you need to fire that fucking doctor. That is not their choice. They cannot force you to go pay $1,300 at CVS. That is not their choice. And there are academic institutions like Methodist Hospital that have policies that say, "We're not gonna prescribe compounded medicines on GLP-1s. You've gotta go to the retail drug. Because we think compounds are dangerous." Where is this coming from? Where ... I- in, in this court document I was going to that just came out last week, Eli Lilly sued Mochi Health, uh, claiming that they're violating the corporate practice of medicine. So they're not just attacking the compounding process, they're also trying to obstruct via the FDA, and they're now suing everybody and their mom in this industry who compounds or runs a telemedicine practice, and Lilly is challenging that telemedicine is legal.

Joe Rogan 28:18 Jesus.

Brigham Buhler 28:19 Eli Lilly is literally challenging that telemedicine is legal, because one of the ways that so many patients are getting accessibility to cost-effective care is telemedicine. And Lilly thinks if we can shut down the pathway of telemedicine, we can force them to our own company, which Lilly launched their own little telemedicine (laughs) branch that you can call in. But in the meantime they're claiming that, that these companies are violating the corporate practice of medicine because-

Joe Rogan 28:44 They just want full monopoly.

Brigham Buhler 28:46 100%.

Joe Rogan 28:47 So what can be done?

Brigham Buhler 28:48 We're doing it. (laughs) Like-

Joe Rogan 28:50 You know?

Brigham Buhler 28:50 ... uh, candidly, we're doing ... So I leave that first meeting with the FDA. I, I get that message from this individual at the FDA, and I thought, "I'm gonna wait and see. I ho- I hope this person's wrong. Um, let's see what happens." And, uh, when we were in Europe, I get a call, uh, from another source that said, "Hey, they're, they're doing it. They're ... In a court document, the FDA is going to make a stance that says there is no medical necessity for peptides." Which would ineffectively, in effect ban over 50 peptides that have been being compounded. Now remember, they already put I think over a dozen peptides on a bulks list a year ago. That's all separate from the GLP-1. Why did they do that? Because of the lobby of big pharma. You have people at the FDA who are legacy employees of the FDA, who have legacy relationships with big pharma. W- we've already gone over how many heads of the FDA have gone to work for industry and then come back to work for the FDA and then go ... It's a revolving door. They're sw- they're swapping spit, they're lobbying together, they're going to dinners together, they're spending time together, and the CEO of Lilly is up Trump's ass. I was with another high, high, high level person at HHS and their phone kept ringing, I swear to God, kept ringing, and they looked at their phone and they go, "God, man, these people from Eli Lilly are aggressive."

Joe Rogan 30:16 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 30:16 And all of this was happening in the dark. And so what we can do is what we're doing, this, podcast, getting President Trump's attention, gaining the attention of Secretary Kennedy and the team at the FDA. And Secretary Kennedy and his team are playing Whac-A-Mole, you know? Because it's ... You gotta think, it's not just the FDA. It's the CDC, it's the NIH-

Joe Rogan 30:38 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 30:38 ... 80,000 employees. I think they have 200 appointees from the new administration. You got ... You're literally ... It's like the Spartans versus the Persians.

Joe Rogan 30:47 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 30:47 You got 200 hard hitters trying to fight 80,000 people that have been co-opted. And I'm not there to say all those people are bad. There's a lot of good things that have d- been done at all of these organizations.But there's also a natural, innate bias when a big chunk of your funding pivoted in the '90s where over 60% of the FDA's funding is based off fee schedules. And those fee schedules generate the revenue that create your jobs. And you have an open door policy to meet with the FDA, but you're not meeting with compounders, and you're not reading the emails from compounders, right? And so, e- there, when I told the FDA, w- what made you decide this backlog was over? They said, "Well, industry told us they could meet the need." And I said, "Okay, well, did you see the email I sent you where we contacted over 30,000 pharmacies for 12 months and they can't meet the need? Less than 6% of prescriptions were available. They cannot meet the need. They're gonna force people to higher dosages and it's gonna cause a catastrophic health consequence to the American people, and it's gonna bankrupt our systems. Did you not see these emails?" And they just sat there, dead quiet. And so, (laughs) jump forward, I get wind that in a court document ... And it's all in f- it's all in secret, right? All this shit happens in the shadows, and then they play dumb. "Oh, we didn't know. What do you mean? We didn't understand. We, we ... That's just a court document, Secretary Kennedy." Bullshit. It's a court document that sets precedent, and that precedent says that peptides have no medical necessity while at the same time, you have Big Pharma trying to patent 140 fucking peptides as biologics that we were already making for the last decade.

Joe Rogan 32:22 Jesus.

Brigham Buhler 32:23 Is it about safety? Is it about safety? Because all of the adverse events that have been reported, almost all of them, a huge majority of the adverse events, which aren't even that many, came from black market peptides. And that's what Lilly's tr-... Lilly in the court case two weeks ago presented to the judge all the adverse events, and the judge said, "Where are they?" And Lilly said, "Right here in this Reddit forum." I swear to God.

Joe Rogan 32:49 Oh my God.

Brigham Buhler 32:50 And the judge said-

Joe Rogan 32:51 A, a Reddit forum.

Brigham Buhler 32:51 ... "Are you really telling me that your documentation of adverse events is coming from a Reddit forum?"

Joe Rogan 32:57 You should send them to the Flat Earth Reddit forum.

Brigham Buhler 32:59 (laughs) Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:00 (laughs) Let's see what else is going on here.

Brigham Buhler 33:02 So that's just, like, a, a sliver, Joe-

Joe Rogan 33:04 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 33:04 ... like, a fucking sliver-

Joe Rogan 33:05 Oh my God.

Brigham Buhler 33:05 ... of what I've been living.

Joe Rogan 33:06 With ... W- one of my favorite narratives is that they're trying to do good.

Brigham Buhler 33:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:11 That's one of my favorite narratives. One of my favorite narratives, whenever there's any sort of a large-scale government organization is that we are trying to protect people from harm.

Brigham Buhler 33:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:18 They're fucking never ... No one is trying to protect you. Everyone at every level of the government, whether it is about climate change, whether it is about, eh, uh, geo-political relationships, whatever the fuck it is, it is all about money.

Brigham Buhler 33:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:33 There's not a single thing that you could point to, "Well-"

Brigham Buhler 33:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:36 "... the government really cares here."

Brigham Buhler 33:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:38 "This is the one. This, this one is a large, uh, uh, huge, corrupted organization that really cares." Like, there's not one-

Brigham Buhler 33:45 W- and you can historically go back.

Joe Rogan 33:46 Of course.

Brigham Buhler 33:47 Like, that's where it's like-

Joe Rogan 33:48 It's money.

Brigham Buhler 33:48 ... I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I know people wanna label it as that. G- if you go back, the FDA's predecessor, I think was the Food Something Act of 1901, and as they went to try and create this organization, industry assembled. Whose industry? Big chemical, big food, Big Pharma.

Joe Rogan 34:07 Well, Rockefeller literally set the tone for the entire-

Brigham Buhler 34:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:11 ... medical establishment in this country by using petroleum-based medicine.

Brigham Buhler 34:15 You got it.

Joe Rogan 34:16 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 34:16 It's-

Joe Rogan 34:16 And people don't know this. Like-

Brigham Buhler 34:17 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:18 ... most of your medicines in this country are formulated with the use of petroleum, and that is because of Rockefeller.

Brigham Buhler 34:27 Yup, 100%.

Joe Rogan 34:27 Because he had a monopoly on that.

Brigham Buhler 34:31 And that's why the side effect profile is higher, and that's why peptides don't have any of these things. Again, we're synthesizing short-chain amino acids found in our body that we're deficient in. And so, as we begin to see a precipitous decline in all of these raw elements that allow our bodies to heal and recover, we can bring you back to a state of homeostasis through the utilization of peptides. And Big Pharma is realizing they got beat to the punch, and they're scrambling to capitalize and monopolize this entire sector. And the only way they can do that is to try and horse trade with President Trump and the administration and pretend like they're gonna play the game, but they're not gonna play the game.

Joe Rogan 35:15 There's no way-

Brigham Buhler 35:15 They're just gonna move the goalpost.

Joe Rogan 35:16 ... there's no way Trump is aware of all this. This is an ad by BetterHelp. When you have a problem, when you're feeling down, it's nice having someone to turn to, like a partner who can cheer you up, a friend to vent to, a parent who can give you advice. Even having a nice conversation with a stranger can be uplifting. Whoever you like to turn to, though, probably won't have all the answers. That's where therapy comes in. There are some things that you can get from therapy you can't get anywhere else. Like, if you're struggling with anxiety or depression, a therapist can help you develop positive coping skills. Or if you're struggling with how to be kinder to yourself, therapy can help you take a step in the right direction. And thanks to BetterHelp, matching with a credentialed therapist is easier than ever. Just head online to fill out a short questionnaire, and BetterHelp will set you up with a therapist based on your needs. If for any reason it's not a good fit, you can switch to another therapist at no extra cost. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/jre. That's betterhelp.com/jre. I-

Brigham Buhler 36:45 Well, he's got too many things he's fighting-

Joe Rogan 36:47 Yeah, believe me.

Brigham Buhler 36:47 ... and that's why I'm trying to ring the bell.

Joe Rogan 36:49 I've talked to him. (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 36:49 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:50 There's no way.

Brigham Buhler 36:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:52 With the way that guy's mind works, there's no way he's absorbing all this.

Brigham Buhler 36:56 So the message that Secretary Kennedy gave me, and this is where I'm like ...It isn't woo-woo, it isn't bullshit.

Joe Rogan 37:02 No.

Brigham Buhler 37:02 I can tell you, I've texted that guy two times in my life, and both times he's called me within 10 minutes. And I texted him, I said, "I have an emergency. This is a big deal. I wanna make you aware of something that's happening at the FDA." And he called me and said, "What's going on?" And I laid it out for him, and he said, "What the fuck are you talking about?" basically.

Joe Rogan 37:22 Wow.

Brigham Buhler 37:22 "I had no idea." And it's not... It, he, again, he's playing Whac-A-Mole. He's got 500 fires. You've got some legacy employee at the FDA that's gonna try and make-

Joe Rogan 37:31 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 37:31 ... this statement in a court document that's flying under the radar because it's not an overarching policy, right? And then even in the f- subsequent meetings, so RFK said, "Give me 10 minutes." 10 minutes later, I'm on calls with the FDA. Then he's like, "How soon can you come meet with the FDA again?" So we set an emergency conference call. I do a call with the FDA. He said again, his, his sec- Secretary Kennedy's team said, "They're gonna approach this with an open mind and an open heart, and they're gonna ha- there, it's gonna be a different tone than the last meeting." And I'm gonna try and attend that call or have one of my staffers attend that call. Okay. The call went down at, like, 8:00 in the morning when he was in Alaska, and then another mole leaked to me, 'cause I have moles. I'm play- I'm playing the game they play now. I'm not gonna fuck around. And my mole called me and said they scheduled the meeting early 'cause they knew he'd be in Alaska and they knew he couldn't be on it, and that call did not go well. It was a bunch of legacy FDA employees basically saying, "We're gonna, we're gonna stay the course. We're not opening peptides up to the American people." And so I had to text his team and go, "Hey, I, the call didn't go well." And then they're, they're like, "Our intel's telling us the same thing." And so he stepped in and said, "This is a mandate. We are not going to dictate to the American people that they can or cannot use preventative care and peptides. This is a mandate. You need to figure this out, and we need to open accessibility, and we need to bring peptides back for the American people through safe, compliant compounding pharmacies, not black market, which is springing up everywhere. We're gonna have another opioid crisis."

Joe Rogan 39:10 Right.

Brigham Buhler 39:10 I explained this to them too. Everywhere out there-

Joe Rogan 39:13 (sniffs)

Brigham Buhler 39:13 ... there are peptides that you can buy online now with no checks and balances, with no FDA inspection, with no validation testing, with no way of telling if there's any contamination, cross-contamination-

Joe Rogan 39:25 Or if they're even real.

Brigham Buhler 39:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:27 I've had people buy ipamorelin, uh, online, and you know, that, that's a peptide that-

Brigham Buhler 39:32 Yep.

Joe Rogan 39:32 ... when you do it, it has a very strong reaction, like, you feel it in your body.

Brigham Buhler 39:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:36 Like, immediately after, there's nothing. They get nothing.

Brigham Buhler 39:39 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:39 I'm like, "Well, yeah, it's probably bullshit."

Brigham Buhler 39:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:41 You're buying bullshit peptides. But the point is, like, if Kennedy is not aware of all this, there's no way Trump is.

Brigham Buhler 39:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:48 He cannot be.

Brigham Buhler 39:48 No, they have too many things they're fighting.

Joe Rogan 39:50 He's literally involved in Rwanda, having, like, l- like, peace talks with, with, uh, uh, with enemies that have been enemies for 20, 30 years, trying to bring them to the table.

Brigham Buhler 40:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:04 All the shit that's going on with Gaza and Palestine and Israel, all the shit that's going on with Ukraine and Russia. Do you think he even understands peptides?

Brigham Buhler 40:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:14 Like, look at him.

Brigham Buhler 40:14 (laughs) Well, the healthcare system's complicated, it's nuanced, and the challenge-

Joe Rogan 40:20 Very.

Brigham Buhler 40:20 ... is you have some of the best litigators and attorneys in the world on payroll for these big pharmaceutical cartels.

Joe Rogan 40:27 Of course.

Brigham Buhler 40:27 And they fund 60% of the FDA. And the history of the FDA is that it... I've, I've said over and over again, it's captured, but the truth is, all of these organizations were born in captivity. They were born-

Joe Rogan 40:41 They fund the news.

Brigham Buhler 40:42 ... in captivity. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:43 That's the craziest thing.

Brigham Buhler 40:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:45 Anderson Cooper, brought to you by Pfizer.

Brigham Buhler 40:48 Well, they're-

Joe Rogan 40:48 L-

Brigham Buhler 40:48 ... even doing it right now, making it look like the world's turning. I don't know if you saw Bernie Sanders tweeted, "RFK's gotta go."

Joe Rogan 40:54 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 40:54 All these people... But the truth is, last week, they announced the approval ratings, and RFK is up seven points in the approval rate, the highest rating of any elected official. The American people are not turning on RFK. Even the CDC debacle that people are turning into the news is making out to be a debacle, you lost legacy employees. You lost this dude wearing sex gear and shit on covers of magazines-

Joe Rogan 41:17 Who wants to get Hep B.

Brigham Buhler 41:18 ... who wants everyone to get Hep B. Nobody's saying you can't vaccinate your kids. Nobody's saying-

Joe Rogan 41:22 Yeah, but why you gotta have-

Brigham Buhler 41:23 ... not to. Have, there's literally-

Joe Rogan 41:24 There's no reason.

Brigham Buhler 41:25 (laughs) I know, but what they're, all they're saying-

Joe Rogan 41:27 Hep B vaccinations for babies.

Brigham Buhler 41:28 ... right now is, all they're saying right now is, "We don't wanna keep mandating without science."

Joe Rogan 41:31 Yes.

Brigham Buhler 41:31 "Without evidence. And we wanna understand, is there a potential risk of side effects when we hit a child with this many vaccines before the age of two?"

Joe Rogan 41:41 Did you see the conversation that, uh, Kennedy had where he was talking about, um, w- they, they were talking about measles. And he said, "We have had four deaths from measles in the last 20 years. Do you know how many cases of autism that we've had?" And he, he rattled off that.

Brigham Buhler 41:58 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:58 Like, the numbers.

Brigham Buhler 42:00 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:00 You know in California, it's literally one in 12 boys now?

Brigham Buhler 42:03 Yep. Yep.

Joe Rogan 42:04 Do you know how insane that is?

Brigham Buhler 42:05 He, he said that at the, uh, at the Texas legislature when-

Joe Rogan 42:08 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 42:08 ... Abbott signed off on the bills that I helped testify for.

Joe Rogan 42:10 But yet, you're having guys-

Brigham Buhler 42:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:11 ... like Bernie Sanders, who doesn't know... I l- uh, look, listen. I'm an old-school Bernie bro. I love Bernie. I love the idea of Bernie.

Brigham Buhler 42:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:19 Bernie doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

Brigham Buhler 42:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:21 Bernie didn't know what the fuck he was talking about when it came to climate change.

Brigham Buhler 42:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:24 "It's a real thing. Climate change is definitely happening."

Brigham Buhler 42:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:27 Like, what are you saying? Like, what does that mean? Has the climate ever been static? Like, when you, like, confront him on the details, he really doesn't know what he's talking about.

Brigham Buhler 42:34 What, to me, what's frustrating is-

Joe Rogan 42:35 They're narratives.

Brigham Buhler 42:36 Uh, yes, they're narratives, but-

Joe Rogan 42:36 So the narratives is that, "What, what we've done with vaccines is stop all the diseases." Okay. A- are you sure? Do you really know that? Have you ever looked at-

Brigham Buhler 42:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:45 ... the history of the eradication of diseases and the introduction of sanitation, running water? L- have you looked at any of that stuff? Nutrition, vitamins-

Brigham Buhler 42:57 Yeah. You're nailing it.

Joe Rogan 42:57 ... you looked at any of that stuff? Do you-

Brigham Buhler 42:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:58 ... do you know anything about polio, for real? When I tell people the polio statistic that 95 to 99% of polio is asymptomatic, it's one of my favorite questions.

Brigham Buhler 43:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:09 I'm like, "What percentage of polio," you know... (singing)

Brigham Buhler 43:12 Do you, do you also follow that, so-

Joe Rogan 43:14 The DDT story.

Brigham Buhler 43:15 Boom. So, the DDT-

Joe Rogan 43:16 DDT is crazy.

Brigham Buhler 43:16 Do you know that the CDC...This is a, this is, these are, there's so many fucking crazy stories. The CDC was created in World War II to stop the malaria spread, okay? And the first thing they did was ink a deal with a little chemical company called Monsanto, where they began to dump DDT into all of these countries to try and kill malaria, and they spread a array of health issues that lasted generations and gave immunity, and did all these things. That was the foundation of the CDC. And where it gets even crazier is guess how... Nobody talks about this shit. Do you know how the C- where the CD C's headquarters is? Their headquarters in Atlanta was gifted to them by Coca-Cola.

Joe Rogan 44:02 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 44:02 The CDC, to this day, is in a fucking giant building that was given to them by Coca-Cola. And in a FOIA request, there is a fucking email from one of the executives at the CDC, I don't remember, like the '70s or '80s, where they're literally going back and forth with Coca-Cola and saying they're gonna do all they can to shut down this bad information on sugar.

Joe Rogan 44:28 (gasps) .

Brigham Buhler 44:29 It runs so deep. And then you go to the EPA-

Joe Rogan 44:33 Bad infor- what bad information? (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 44:33 You go to the EPA and its relationships with Monsanto. The EPA, in a FOIA request, one of the heads of the E- EPA, with regards to glyphosate, in do- disclosure documents, literally sent an email saying, "If I pull this off for you guys, you owe me a fucking medal." All of this shit's out there. I put all of it on the website. You can go find all of this stuff. It is there. And so, systematically, FDA, CDC, EPA, NIH, every one of these systems have been built, co-opted, corrupted, and developed alongside industry. And even when you talk about chronic disease, so many people... There's a big podcast that dropped that if anyone ... i- i- it's, it gets into antidepressants, and a lot of people don't know this, because I wanna quantify peptides, because you're gonna have academia go, "Well, the difference is, drugs are investigated and peptides aren't, and there's no placebo-controlled, double-blind studies." One, there are, there's a lot, and we can systematically break that down too. They just haven't gone through an FDA approval process, because that costs two billion dollars. Well, who established-

Joe Rogan 45:42 Two billion dollars?

Brigham Buhler 45:43 Two billion dollars to bring a drug to market.

Joe Rogan 45:44 What a great way to be a gateway.

Brigham Buhler 45:46 Boom. It was established by big pharma. Big pharma told the FDA, "Let's build this model." Right?

Joe Rogan 45:55 Two billion?

Brigham Buhler 45:55 So then they capture the molecule at the NIH level, bring it to phase two and three trials, bring it into human trials. The cost of doing that is not what they make it out to be. And then it's a pay-to-play system, and it's an obstructionist system that stifles and prevents innovation, because if I'm a biotech startup or a compounding pharmacy or a stem cell company or a peptide company, or anybody who wants to get into that space, I am gonna be forced to sell my company at some point to Eli Lilly or Pfizer or one of these big conglomerates in order to get it through the FDA approval process. I can't afford two billion dollars. And so what you've given big pharma is the keys to the Ferrari, and they control all the Ferraris that hit the marketplace, but then they co-opt and corrupt the data. So here's an example. When we talk about science, follow the science, follow the evidence, I worked for Eli Lilly. I, that was my first job outta college. We sold antipsychotic drug Zyprexa. Patients would come in and doctors would say, "Brigham, I don't know what's going on, dude. This lady put on 30 fucking pounds in like a, literally a month. This is not good. There's something going on here." And so when we go back to the main goal's safety, where was safety on that drug? Out of 12 blockbuster drugs in the last, I think, 15 years of Eli Lilly's history, 10 of them have black box warnings.

Joe Rogan 47:22 Jesus.

Brigham Buhler 47:22 Black box, the most, the harshest warning you can get. The studies oftentimes don't represent long-term data, and the studies oftentimes aren't looking at all of the multifaceted aspects of human nature and life, like comorbidities and what other medications are these people taking and how do all these impact each other, average American's on four or more prescription drugs. All right, so I wanna lay out for the antidepressant, 'cause this one's crazy. Do you, do you, r- how do you, how do you think we diagnose depression, anxiety, ADHD, any of these mental health disorders? And I'm not, I wanna be clear, I'm not saying that these disorders don't exist, and I'm not saying that there is not a medical, uh, issue with patients. They're-

Joe Rogan 48:09 Well, it's all completely subjective. It's not like a test they can give you, like, "Do you have syphilis?"

Brigham Buhler 48:14 Correct.

Joe Rogan 48:15 Right.

Brigham Buhler 48:15 There is no blood test.

Joe Rogan 48:16 Right.

Brigham Buhler 48:16 There is no brain test.

Joe Rogan 48:17 Right.

Brigham Buhler 48:17 There is no chemical brain test.

Joe Rogan 48:19 Well, not only that, let's, let's be really clear. The established criteria, the idea behind it being that there is some sort of a chemical imbalance has been disproven.

Brigham Buhler 48:29 Correct.

Joe Rogan 48:30 So it's, it's not-

Brigham Buhler 48:30 Even in autopsies.

Joe Rogan 48:31 Yeah. It's not real.

Brigham Buhler 48:32 Even in autopsies. That, and you know who perpetuated and created that narrative was big pharma.

Joe Rogan 48:37 Of course.

Brigham Buhler 48:38 Big pharma created that narrative, sold that story. It was never a serotonin deficiency. There's zero evidence to show that. So the screening tool we use to tell you if your child has ADHD was developed by a doctor in the '70s who was a consultant for Ritalin.

Joe Rogan 48:55 Oh, Jesus.

Brigham Buhler 48:56 Now, jump to the '90s. Eli Lilly, Pfizer, everyone's launching antidepressants into the marketplace under the guise that these serotonin, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, SSRIs, are going to fix your chemical imbalance in your brain. The measuring stick to decide whether you're depressed or not was a questionnaire developed by a consultant for Pfizer-... a doctor who worked for Pfizer developed that test, and the goal of the test was to simplify depression so simplistically that any primary care in America could prescribe an antidepressant through a simple questionnaire.

Joe Rogan 49:34 Then I bet most people-

Brigham Buhler 49:34 They set the rules, they set the protocols, they set the- the everything. But there's no quantifiable data that says that that actually is-

Joe Rogan 49:44 It's just a questionnaire.

Brigham Buhler 49:45 That's it.

Joe Rogan 49:45 So it's totally subjective. So, what- what is this questionnaire? Can we take it and find out if I need pills?

Brigham Buhler 49:49 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:50 Let's take it right now.

Brigham Buhler 49:51 It's like, I can tell you had to take it.

Joe Rogan 49:52 Should we take it?

Brigham Buhler 49:52 Yeah, let's take it.

Joe Rogan 49:53 Let's take it. I wanna see if I need pills.

Brigham Buhler 49:55 Let's see. Hold on. That'd be hilarious.

Joe Rogan 49:58 (laughs) I've never met a single person that's depressed and has a great life. Is that weird? I never s-

Brigham Buhler 50:03 Oh.

Joe Rogan 50:04 ... I never met a single person that's healthy, has a family where everyone's doing well-

Brigham Buhler 50:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:09 ... they have a good career that they enjoy.

Brigham Buhler 50:10 Well, that's why when... What's that dipshit? Colbert is like, "It's multifaceted in healthcare." Yeah, dumbass, it is.

Joe Rogan 50:17 Who- who is that?

Brigham Buhler 50:17 Uh, Colbert, uh, the Colbert Report guy.

Joe Rogan 50:20 Oh, that guy.

Brigham Buhler 50:21 He just attacked Malhot a few weeks ago and was like-

Joe Rogan 50:23 Did he?

Brigham Buhler 50:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:24 What did he say?

Brigham Buhler 50:24 He was saying that t- t- to try and go after food and the drug companies is insane. And so, if you follow even depression-

Joe Rogan 50:30 He looks super healthy. I like to see him in his underwear.

Brigham Buhler 50:32 When, if you follow depression-

Joe Rogan 50:34 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 50:34 ... when did we skyrocket in depression? When did depression skyrocket? It skyrocketed in the '80s. What happened in the '80s? We moved to an ultra-processed food diet. There is more compelling evidence that most depression is tracked back to insulin response and eating ultra-processed foods and sugary foods than any other aspect. We're all gonna go through highs and lows, we're all gonna have tough times, but when we're systematically chronically inflamed and poisoning our bodies through our food systems...

Joe Rogan 51:03 You're exhausted and depressed.

Brigham Buhler 51:05 And it leads-

Joe Rogan 51:06 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 51:06 ... to all these, I don't have-

Joe Rogan 51:07 Bro.

Brigham Buhler 51:07 ... I don't have cell in here. I'm trying to see what the...

Joe Rogan 51:09 I get exhausted and depressed if I eat a bowl of fucking Froot Loops. (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 51:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:16 I mean, think- think about it, as healthy as I am.

51:18 Brigham, does this work do you think?

51:21 ADHD self-report scale.

Brigham Buhler 51:22 That's the ADHD one.

Joe Rogan 51:23 All right, let's try this one, though, 'cause I'm pretty sure-

Brigham Buhler 51:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:25 ... I have this. How often do you have trouble wrapping up the final details of a project once the challenging parts have been done? Uh, I'm kind of... I don't really qualify for that one. Never.

51:36 I don't How often do you wrap things down for you?

51:37 I get shit done. Okay.

51:38 One to five, I guess, right? Uh, it's never to very often.

51:41 If it's a project, if it's som- I get shit done. Okay. How often... But that's just a decision that I've made.

51:47 I know you gotta give me a score. We have to score you at the end.

51:49 Never.

51:49 Okay.

51:50 How often do you have difficulty getting things in order once you have a task that requires organization? Oh, yeah, I got, I have a problem getting things in order. Um, often. Let's go with often on that one. How often do you have a problem remembering appointments or obligations? Mm, sometimes. Let's say sometimes with that one. Um, when you have... But that's just overwhelming. I'm just overwhelmed with shit going on. When you have a task that requires a lot of thought, how often do you avoid or delay getting started? Uh, sometimes. Let's say sometimes. Um, how often do you fidget or squirm with your hands and feet when you have to sit down for a long time? Often. Um, how often do you feel overly active and compelled to do things, like you are driven by a motor? Uh, always. Very. How often do you make careless mistakes when you have to work on a boring or difficult project? That's not applicable. I don't have any boring or difficult projects. Careless mistakes. Um, what are the, what are the options again? Uh, let's say rarely.

Brigham Buhler 52:58 Okay. The- the depression test-

Joe Rogan 53:00 Let's say rarely with that one.

Brigham Buhler 53:00 ... is the PHQ-9. Sorry, I just got into a-

Joe Rogan 53:02 Okay, but let's just go through those real quick.

Brigham Buhler 53:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:04 Uh, how often do you have difficulty keeping your attention when you're doing boring or repetitive work? We did that. Uh, how- how often do you have difficulty concentrating on what people say to you, even when they're speaking to you directly? Well, it depends on the person. If it's you, no problem at all, but if it's someone who's saying some boring shit, yeah. So, what's the middle one?

53:25 Sometimes.

53:25 Sometimes. Let's go with sometimes. Uh, ok- uh, how often do you misplace or have difficulty finding things at home or work? Mm, I'd say often with that one. How often are you distracted by activity or noise around you? Often. How often do you leave your seat in meetings or other situations where you're expected to remain seated? Never. How often do you feel restless or fidgety? Often. How often do you have dif- difficulty unwinding-

53:55 (laughs)

53:55 ... and relaxing when you have time to yourself? Always. I always have difficulty. What's the most one with that?

54:01 Uh, very often.

54:02 Very often.

54:03 Very often.

54:03 Very often with that. Um, how often do you find yourself take, uh, talking too much when you're in social situations? What? (laughs)

54:13 (laughs)

54:13 Probably. I don't know. What's too much? I- my social situations are all with professional talkers.

54:19 (laughs)

54:20 That's a weird one. Uh, I don't think I... Well, because I do podcasts a lot, I'm pretty good at, like, not talking too much. So, what's the- the options again?

54:31 Rarely.

54:31 Rarely. Let's say rarely, because I'm pretty good at that. But it does happen. When you're in a conversation, how often do you find yourself finishing the sentences of people you're talking to before they can finish? Again, depends on who I'm talking to.

54:42 Yeah.

54:42 I- if I'm talking to a fucking moron-

54:44 Yeah.

54:44 ... and they- they're laying things out to me that are, like, super obvious, but they're going really slowly, I'm like, "Let's go. Pick it up. Yep, I got it. Got it." So, it depends. Sometimes. What are the options again?

54:58 Never, rarely, sometimes, often, very often.

55:02 Uh, rarely. Let's say rarely, 'cause I rarely talk to morons. How often do you have difficulty waiting your turn in situations when turn-taking is required? Difficulty, like what am... What would I be doing then as turn... No. No, I don't really have a problem with that. How often do you-

Brigham Buhler 55:19 You gotta think, too, this is, they're asking children this-

Joe Rogan 55:22 Right.

55:24 This one's for adults.

Brigham Buhler 55:25 Oh, this is the adult one?

Joe Rogan 55:26 Oh, okay.

Brigham Buhler 55:26 Okay.

Joe Rogan 55:26 ... how often do you interrupt others when they're busy? (smacks lips) Again, I got a weird life, so that doesn't really come up. I'm not interrupting any... I'm not, like, showing up at someone's work and interrupting them, so that's never.

55:38 Okay. I think that's it. I'll figure out-

55:39 That's it. Okay. Let's find out, do I have a problem? (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 55:44 So, here's where this gets wild, though. So now, look back retrospectively.

Joe Rogan 55:48 Uh-huh.

Brigham Buhler 55:48 Okay? When I, when I was a Lilly rep, and they're talking about Prozac, and, "We're gonna cure depression. And depression's caused by a serotonin chemical imbalance in the brain." We now know all that's hogwash. We don't really know what was causing the depression, the anxiety, and all these cascade effects. In their own retrospective studies of every SSRI on the market, what we now see is on a 52-point depression scale, SSRIs score two points higher than placebo. Two points higher. It's not statistically relevant. It fails to differentiate statistically from placebo. There are two things that do differentiate from placebo. Exercise is five times more potent than placebo or an antidepressant, in studies. Red light therapy is even higher, two times higher than any antidepressant that's ever hit the market. But now you've put a person in a chemical straitjacket, where you have wrecked their system. You have now created more harm than good. And so, step one in medicine, do no harm, right? (laughs) Step one for the FDA, make sure these drugs are safe. They're not safe. Even, even, there's, there were lawsuits in the early days of suicidal ideation and violent thoughts, because a lot of the pharmaceutical companies tried to hide that they were seeing in trials that c- children were having suicidal and violent thoughts in the early days of being on SSRIs.

Joe Rogan 57:18 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 57:18 Because it numbs the emotions, it shuts down the emotional response, it damages relationships. These are catastrophic things that you're giving these people, for what?

Joe Rogan 57:29 They're also connected to almost every school shooter.

Brigham Buhler 57:33 ... (pauses) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:33 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 57:33 You said it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:35 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 57:35 And d-

Joe Rogan 57:36 And that's something that no one wants to say.

Brigham Buhler 57:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:37 No one wants to talk about, th- no one in the news wants to talk about it. You would think that if there's something that correlates, if there's a correlation, if there's, like, some statistical thing that you can look at and say, "Well, wow, this is kind of crazy that this one particular medication is involved in almost every mass shooting."

Brigham Buhler 57:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:52 And when they say m- when you say mass shootings, like, here's the thing that gets thrown around about when they, when talk about, like, mass shootings. Mass shootings, th- the problem with the statistics is it connects gangs. Um, you, you have gang, like, what happens in Chicago every weekend, like last weekend in Chicago, 54 people got shot. When people say, "Trump is doing a terrible thing bringing the National Guard," ask the people of Chicago if that's terrible.

Brigham Buhler 58:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:20 If, if you want this to continue, like, do you have a better solution? If you have a better solution, I'm, I'm not in fa- in favor of bringing the National Guard into every fucking city and militarizing America. No, I think that's terrible.

Brigham Buhler 58:31 And, and the argument against guns is that people are getting shot in Chicago, but if you look at the states that have the highest gun violence, it's the states that have the strictest gun laws.

Joe Rogan 58:40 Yes, and that's-

Brigham Buhler 58:40 Bad guys are still gonna get guns.

Joe Rogan 58:42 So it's... Exactly. And so there's that. That's one. Um, so this is when... But when you're talking about school shootings, that's a different thing. So school shootings get... You, you, you find almost all mentally ill people.

Brigham Buhler 58:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:58 And w- whatever f- f- fil-... We don't, you know, you don't have to politicize it, but it's all mentally ill people who are almost all of them on psychiatric medication.

Brigham Buhler 59:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:07 I mean, every single one of 'em. A- all the way back to Columbine. But yet, no one brings that up.

Brigham Buhler 59:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:12 That seems insane. That seems completely co-opted. If you have an industry that is literally sponsoring the fucking news on CNN, literally proudly, not even hiding it, right?

Brigham Buhler 59:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:24 Brought to you... They want everyone to know that they're sponsoring the news. And y- you know, the way it's been described to me, uh... Oh, God, who... Was it Calley Means? Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 59:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:35 Was, was saying, "This is not so that they can sell more drugs on the news. This is so that the news doesn't criticize the pharmaceutical drug companies." And they don't. They avoid them. They avoid it like the plague. If there was, like, a similar situation with any other thing that was not sponsoring the news, like let's say cannabis. Let's imagine that if cannabis was connected somehow or another to every mass shooting. Do... You don't think that that would be brought up, like fucking full-court press in the front page of the New York Post and The New York Times and all over CNN and MSNBC? They would start talking about it. If it was some, some masculine thing, like if it was testosterone.

Brigham Buhler 1:00:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:15 It was, like, inj- testosterone therapy. So tes- testosterone replacement therapy is involved in 100% of school shooters. Jesus Christ.

Brigham Buhler 1:00:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:23 They would be feminizing the world.

Brigham Buhler 1:00:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:25 "You boys need to eat more soy."

Brigham Buhler 1:00:27 Uh...

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 "You need to get tofu into schools."

Brigham Buhler 1:00:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:29 You know, we need-

Brigham Buhler 1:00:30 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 Right? We need to stop weightlifting.

Brigham Buhler 1:00:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 No more weightlifting, n- no more cold plunges, 'cause they increase testosterone as well. No more, you know, no more fucking going outside in the sun. Th- sunlight gives you vitamin D. Vitamin D increases testosterone. Get out of the sun.

Brigham Buhler 1:00:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 (laughs) It's causing mass shootings.

Brigham Buhler 1:00:48 And there's a, there's a ton of stuff str- correlating D, uh, lack of vitamin D to depression.

Joe Rogan 1:00:53 Yes.

Brigham Buhler 1:00:53 I mean, there's... It's, it's all-

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Of course.

Brigham Buhler 1:00:54 ... of these different things.

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 It's terrible for your immune system.

Brigham Buhler 1:00:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 If you have a low level of vitamin D, you're chronically susceptible to all kinds of pathogens. Your immune system fucking sucks.

Brigham Buhler 1:01:06 And the challenge is that same level of money and power that they're feeding to the media is also happening in politics. So, like, testifying here at the state level on these MHA bills. Three bills got passed in the state of Texas. Joe, I don't know if you've been following all that. Um, but these bills, I mean, you would think they... (laughs) I, I... You would think we were asking to, like... I don't even know. Like, the level of fuckery that went down with these bills was crazy. So first off, industry didn't think there was a snowball's chance in hell...... that we were gonna get MAHA bills passed in the state of Texas, 'cause it's so Republican-intensive. And a lot of these politicians have, you know, relationships and ties with industry. Uh, and we're an industry-forward state. And we always wanna be an industry-forward state. But we can make money without killing people.

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 Right.

Brigham Buhler 1:01:57 And we can make money without chronically and systematically poisoning people.

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 You just can't make the most money.

Brigham Buhler 1:02:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:02 That's the problem with all of it. It's not making money; it's making the most money. And, you know, we've talked about this a bunch of times, but it's a real issue. I'm in favor of capitalism. I think it's awesome. I think communism sucks. I think, you know, socialism is... It's contrary to human behavior characteristics that we're all aware of. Right? We can- I think we would all agree on that.

Brigham Buhler 1:02:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:20 However, when you have a system that's set up where it has to make more money all the time, there's only one way-

Brigham Buhler 1:02:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 ... to do that. You have to abandon ethics and morals or co-opt the fucking law, co-opt the rules, co-opt the regulations, make sure that you can continue to make more money whenever possible. And-

Brigham Buhler 1:02:39 And you're nailing it. That's-

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:02:40 Uh, big pharma's not really worried that compounders are gonna take away their profits. They're going to hurt their, their marketing on Wall Street, their shareholder pricing, right? If, if y- if there's competition, if they can shut down all competition and have a monopoly for 12 years on a compound, what does that mean for their shareholder price?

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 Exactly. Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:03:00 How much can they skyrocket that stock price?

Joe Rogan 1:03:02 Exactly. Exactly. And that's what it's all about. And this is why people need mushrooms.

Brigham Buhler 1:03:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 For real. I'm not kidding. I'm, I'm not kidding.

Narrator 1:03:09 Uh...

Joe Rogan 1:03:09 'Cause there's, there's gonna come a point in time where people realize, like, th- there's gotta be a way to abandon this rid- ridiculous mindset that our country has been entrapped by.

Brigham Buhler 1:03:20 Yeah. Well, and in t- in the state of Texas, how progressive is it that Texas passed that ibogaine bill?

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 It's amazing. Well, uh, kudos to Rick Perry, because him, as a Republican former governor championing this-

Brigham Buhler 1:03:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:32 ... is so huge, because i- it... He has so many, uh, alliances with-

Brigham Buhler 1:03:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 ... so many different people that will go, "Well, God, if Rick Perry is saying this..." And then, on top of that, it's veterans-

Brigham Buhler 1:03:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 ... that are being positively affected by this compound, by, by ibogaine, by this psychedelic. And to deny veterans is very un-American. Right? So, if you're a Republican, good luck.

Brigham Buhler 1:03:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:56 If you're, if you're doing something that fucks over veterans, and they organize against you, or people that support veterans o- organize against you... And not just veterans. Anybody who's experienced violent crime, anybody who's experienced horrific things in their life, drug addicts-

Brigham Buhler 1:04:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:11 ... all these different things that can be fixed with this one thing that-

Brigham Buhler 1:04:15 And the success rate is-

Joe Rogan 1:04:16 Yeah, it's just astronomical.

Brigham Buhler 1:04:17 ... so staggering high.

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 S- so, for... Let's, let's talk about that. So, for addiction, the success rate is, with one experience, it's 83% successful.

Brigham Buhler 1:04:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 These people never do heroin again. They never take opiates again. They stop drinking. They stop smoking cigarettes, whatever the fuck it is. With two experiences, it's in the 90s.

Brigham Buhler 1:04:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:40 It's something like 94%. That's insane. There's not a thing like that-

Brigham Buhler 1:04:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 ... that's available. There's not... If... A, a rehab would go out of business. With rehabs-

Brigham Buhler 1:04:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 ... if you know anybody who's been to rehab, very rarely does someone go to rehab once.

Brigham Buhler 1:04:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:54 You know?

Brigham Buhler 1:04:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 The most successful, uh, former alcoholic that I knew, he never went to rehab. He never did anything. He never went to a 12-step program. He crashed his car under a bridge, he got chased by the cops-

Brigham Buhler 1:05:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 ... he got arrested. He's like, "Fuck, I'm, I'm done." And he just quit.

Brigham Buhler 1:05:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 He just quit. And he was a lifelong alcoholic.

Brigham Buhler 1:05:13 Yeah. It's so nuts. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:16 Yeah. It's like, it doesn't work. It- i- it can help you safely.

Brigham Buhler 1:05:16 Well, and all those... I mean, psychedelics have such a huge place into me, all of this.

Joe Rogan 1:05:21 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:05:21 All of this falls under one giant overarching theme: medical right to choose. It's... I, I don't think that the federal government should be shutting down people's ability, especially with compassionate use, like somebody who's terminally ill, or who has nothing to lose. Why would you stop them from using peptides? Why would you stop them from using stem cells? Why would you stop them from using psychedelics? I, I asked, um-

Joe Rogan 1:05:46 Of course. But that's just t- I mean, let's not wait until they're almost dead.

Brigham Buhler 1:05:50 Yeah. (laughs) Well, we could get-

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:05:52 (laughs) Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:05:53 We can't wait for terminally i- terminally ill people. Let's not wait for that.

Brigham Buhler 1:05:55 And in the data on mushrooms and psilocybin and its effects on depression, astronomically show more compelling data than anything you're gonna see in an SSRI or the antidepressants category.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Not only that, it doesn't kill you, at all.

Brigham Buhler 1:06:08 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:08 It like, literally doesn't kill you. Like, the LD50 for mushrooms, you physically can't consume enough to kill half the population.

Brigham Buhler 1:06:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 You know, LD50, for people who don't know. Uh, the lethal, lethal dose, uh, 50% of the people it tests. So, you know, like if you give strychnine to 100 people, pretty much 100 people are gonna die.

Brigham Buhler 1:06:25 And that's where I'm excited, 'cause I- I do know... And, and then Secretary Kennedy did say, "Please resonate for me that I believe in Americans' right to choose and control their healthcare journey. And I am a proponent of peptides, stem cells, hyperbaric, uh, psychedelics."

Joe Rogan 1:06:40 Yeah. And this is why you see all these fucking political hacks that are online saying he's dangerous.

Brigham Buhler 1:06:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 This is why all these people are, like, tweeting and retweeting this stuff, and thinking they're... Some of them, I think, thinking they're being a good person. Some of them are classically educated, you know, and they, they really don't pay attention to anything outside of mainstream news. And they're ro- They're lost, and they think that they're doing the right thing-

Brigham Buhler 1:07:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:05 ... while also playing ball.

Brigham Buhler 1:07:06 Did you see, uh, Huberman on Bill Maher? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:09 Yes, I did.

Brigham Buhler 1:07:09 Yeah. Did you see where Bill Maher asked him, "I think about 20% of what..." Most... He... This is Bill Maher saying he thinks about, most Americans think 90% of what we're told in healthcare is right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 Right.

Brigham Buhler 1:07:19 Bill says, "I think it's about 20." And he looks at... Huberman says, "What do you think?" And he said, "10." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:24 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:07:24 And then he talked about his buddy-

Joe Rogan 1:07:26 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:07:26 ... who's a high professor at Stanford, said at least, at minimal, 60% of what we've been taught is wrong.

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 That's insane.

Brigham Buhler 1:07:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:33 Yeah. And th- but the problem is, uh, also, textbooks don't get updated.

Brigham Buhler 1:07:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:38 They don't get updated to... Well, there's always new studies that come out. There's always new information-

Brigham Buhler 1:07:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:42 ... that comes out. If you wrote a textbook three years ago, like, that thing is probably not good anymore when it come... In, in certain-... disciplines.

Brigham Buhler 1:07:49 Well, and look at all the botched studies. Like, you and I-

Joe Rogan 1:07:51 Yes.

Brigham Buhler 1:07:51 ... covered testosterone and how that was a study in the 1930s that was debunked. Then you had the Women's Health Initiative, which scared the hell out of women from estrogen and hormone replacement therapy-

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 Yes. Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:08:01 ... which led to them now getting on products that cause a cascade effect of other health issues. E- even if you look at, we covered depression, but now go to statins.

Joe Rogan 1:08:11 Mm-hmm.

Brigham Buhler 1:08:12 Guess who created the screening tools?

Joe Rogan 1:08:14 Yes. And who raised the threshold? Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:08:17 It was all big pharma.

Joe Rogan 1:08:18 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:08:18 And then you go to osteoporosis and osteopenia, uh, nine out of the 10 folks who decided that were consultants for industry.

Joe Rogan 1:08:25 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:08:26 Industry, including Merck, who made Fosamax, which was an, uh, an, uh, uh, osteoporosis medication. Over, and over, and over again-

Joe Rogan 1:08:34 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:08:34 ... we can systematically go through every element of healthcare and break down how that system was captured and corrupted. And I'm not saying doctors are bad. Doctors are doing their best to navigate a system. They're being taught in school, systems that were built in this ecosystem, and they look at it and go ... Th- there's even another person at the FDA that, in a blog that they do, talked about how basically preventative care is bullshit, and that the only way is medicine. And I'm like, "If these are the people that are gonna be controlling our accessibility and our healthcare system, it's terrifying."

Joe Rogan 1:09:11 Well, that's Peter Hotez, right? Like, i- if you, you follow him online, and-

Brigham Buhler 1:09:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:16 ... I'm not picking on Peter. But-

Brigham Buhler 1:09:18 You should.

Joe Rogan 1:09:19 ... y- he, I, uh, you know, the-

Brigham Buhler 1:09:20 He says you're a bully-

Joe Rogan 1:09:21 ... conversation-

Brigham Buhler 1:09:22 ... but then he tweeted when-

Joe Rogan 1:09:23 He said I'm a bully?

Brigham Buhler 1:09:24 Uh, he said that stuff in, on X and stuff in the past. He tweeted-

Joe Rogan 1:09:27 Oh, because I was trying to get him to have a debate.

Brigham Buhler 1:09:29 Yeah. And then he tweeted-

Joe Rogan 1:09:30 All I, but all I said is-

Brigham Buhler 1:09:30 ... he tweeted after we testified, uh, a image of, uh, like a 1950s Batman character. It was like, "This is who they bring in front of Congress to testify."

Joe Rogan 1:09:40 What?

Brigham Buhler 1:09:40 And I saw that, and I'm like-

Joe Rogan 1:09:42 1950s Batman?

Brigham Buhler 1:09:42 ... all the Jo- the Joker and the Penguin-

Joe Rogan 1:09:45 Oh.

Brigham Buhler 1:09:45 ... and all this. And I'm like-

Joe Rogan 1:09:46 He tweeted that?

Brigham Buhler 1:09:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:47 Wow.

Brigham Buhler 1:09:47 And I was thinking-

Joe Rogan 1:09:47 He's a silly boy.

Brigham Buhler 1:09:47 ... "You're the one that looks like the penguin. What are you talking about?"

Joe Rogan 1:09:50 He's a silly boy.

Brigham Buhler 1:09:51 Not taking healthcare advice from you.

Joe Rogan 1:09:52 So I, when I exposed him on the show, when I had that conversation with him about his own personal health, that was probably the most telling thing that he's ever been involved with.

Brigham Buhler 1:10:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:03 Because people got a chance to see, oh, these are the people that are telling you you have to take this medication, people that eat junk food, that don't work out, that are overweight, and, uh, you know, generally unhealthy.

Brigham Buhler 1:10:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:15 Don't take vitamins.

Brigham Buhler 1:10:17 Y- you're ... uh, it's funny. You just triggered this thought. Uh, when I was testifying, it's exactly what you're talking about, when I was testifying at the state level, okay, to remove ultra-processed foods and Cokes and soft drinks-

Joe Rogan 1:10:28 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:10:29 ... from food stamps. Because-

Joe Rogan 1:10:31 Right.

Brigham Buhler 1:10:32 ... a large percentage of the money of our food stamps are spent on ultra-processed foods that are poisoning, systematically, these poverty stricken communities.

Joe Rogan 1:10:42 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:10:42 We're just trying to reallocate the resources and, and change school lunches-

Joe Rogan 1:10:47 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:10:47 ... and, and mandate PE, and mandate nutritional training-

Joe Rogan 1:10:50 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:10:51 ... and mandate that your doctor has to n- have nutritional training, and mandate that in elementary school through junior high, you get nutritional training. That's what these bills were about. Okay. While I'm in the middle of trying to explain to congressmen and congresswomen how detrimental a soft drink is, because they don't, they don't know. They're i- I'm trying to just say, look, the difference between a s- very chronically ill diabetic patient and a healthy patient is literally about a teaspoon of sugar in the bloodstream. Do you know how many teaspoons of sugar are in a Coke? And as I'm in the middle of trying to say it, one of the congresswomen holds her Coke up in the microphone ... (imitates soda hissing)

Joe Rogan 1:11:32 For effect?

Brigham Buhler 1:11:33 And drinks her Coke.

Joe Rogan 1:11:34 Wow.

Brigham Buhler 1:11:35 And, um, and everyone just busts out laughing. But I'm like, "Okay, well, the answer is eight to 12 teaspoons of sugar, and you're giving it to a child. You're giving a child eight to 12 teaspoons of sugar at a time, and then you're wondering why our children are obese. You're wondering why over 70% of Americans are obese. You're wondering why diabetes is at an all-time high."

Joe Rogan 1:11:58 Or why I failed-

Brigham Buhler 1:11:59 Chronic disease.

Joe Rogan 1:12:00 ... the ADHD test that I took.

Brigham Buhler 1:12:01 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:03 (laughs) Did I fail?

Brigham Buhler 1:12:04 Well, you didn't fail, but you do have a ... you need to be checked out a little, a little further.

1:12:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:08 There you go.

Brigham Buhler 1:12:09 (laughs)

1:12:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:09 Now, imagine if I had a job that sucked.

Brigham Buhler 1:12:12 Yeah.

1:12:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:12 So if I had a job that sucked, I bet I would've answered, very often, to most of the ones, I was like, "Nah, those don't apply."

Brigham Buhler 1:12:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:19 So then I would need ADHD medication.

Brigham Buhler 1:12:21 Yeah. I told you this on the very first podcast. I'm not splitting atoms on the weekends, man. I failed kindergarten.

Joe Rogan 1:12:29 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 1:12:29 I'm literally dyslexic. I have ADHD. They wanted me on Ritalin.

Joe Rogan 1:12:33 Yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:12:33 My parents were like, "We don't wanna put him on Ritalin." They said, "He's gotta go to pre-first." I was in a class with kids with helmets, dude. Like, I kid you not.

Joe Rogan 1:12:40 Isn't that crazy?

Brigham Buhler 1:12:40 I didn't go to first grade. I went to pre-first. They thought I was mentally handicapped. And I'm, like, sitting in there, like, "Oh man, this sucks." I remember, to this day, I was like, "I don't belong in here."

Joe Rogan 1:12:51 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 1:12:51 What am I doing here? Like, but I just didn't fit in that ecosystem.

Joe Rogan 1:12:56 Right.

Brigham Buhler 1:12:56 I was ... I'm sure I was hyper.

Joe Rogan 1:12:57 Of course.

Brigham Buhler 1:12:57 I'm a fucking kid. Of course-

Joe Rogan 1:12:59 Well, it's like, you know-

Brigham Buhler 1:12:59 ... I'm, I'm hyper now and I'm a grown man.

Joe Rogan 1:13:01 Well-

Brigham Buhler 1:13:01 I can't sit still.

Joe Rogan 1:13:02 You know, I have a new puppy. And, um, when you have a puppy, you realize, like, "Oh, this is what kids are like." Like, this puppy is insane. So I have Marshall, who's out here today.

Brigham Buhler 1:13:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:13 So Marshall's almost nine, and Marshall's really chill. I mean, he's got plenty of energy, super healthy, runs around, gets a lot of exercise in. But this fucking puppy is off the rails.

Brigham Buhler 1:13:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:26 This pu- there's ... I have videos of them playing. Like, Marshall will pick up a toy and then l- like, Charlie will come over and try to grab the toy. He's leaping at him, throwing himself through the air, diving underneath him, biting his face. They're rolling around. He's insane. He can't sit down. And then he crashes, and then he wakes up, he pisses and shits, and then he wants to eat, and then he wants to go at it again. Take that and stick it in a classroom.

Brigham Buhler 1:13:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:49 That's- that's what you're doing with kids.

Brigham Buhler 1:13:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:51 Kids are basically human puppies.

Brigham Buhler 1:13:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:53 And we're making them sit in these fucking classes. And some of them, guess what? Have more fucking energy than the other ones.

Brigham Buhler 1:13:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:59 And they're more active, and they're more physical. Just like dogs, just like every other animal, every other organism. And those ones will probably do great things if they find something that interests them, because they have more energy, and because they can f- f- they can dis- get ... They can blow off all the shit that doesn't mean anything to them. Which is ... Like, a lot of the obligations weigh you down and take away your effectiveness of the thing that you actually enjoy. If you have a bunch of things that you're concentrating all of your time on that are basically bullshit, the thing that's really important to you, you don't have any ... You don't have any resources to allocate-

Brigham Buhler 1:14:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:32 ... to fix that thing, so you're gonna be less effective at it.

Brigham Buhler 1:14:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:35 Whereas a retard like me-

Brigham Buhler 1:14:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14:37 ... can just fucking laser beam on things. And I could just, just try ... I could just ignore every ... I'll throw my clothes on the ground. I don't give a fuck, dude. I'll just-

Brigham Buhler 1:14:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:46 I could live in a cave.

Brigham Buhler 1:14:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14:47 And I could (laughs) , I could just, like, lock down. But th- but that's how you succeed at things.

Brigham Buhler 1:14:53 I would have to hyperfocus. Like, a- and I ... If I ... If it's something I'm interested in, it's easy.

Joe Rogan 1:14:58 That's it.

Brigham Buhler 1:14:58 I can hyperfocus. I can retain. I have good data recall.

Joe Rogan 1:15:01 That's it, if it's something you're interested in.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:03 If it ... If it ... If it's, like, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, and it's some mundane-

Joe Rogan 1:15:07 Bueller.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:07 (laughs) Yeah, just-

Joe Rogan 1:15:09 Bueller.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:09 It's torture, man.

Joe Rogan 1:15:10 (laughs) Yes.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:10 And I can't sit still in this environment?

Joe Rogan 1:15:13 But that's why you're successful.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:15 This is what people don't understand. That's a superpower.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:17 But I know for sure that I would have anxiety-

Joe Rogan 1:15:19 The thing they're trying to medicate kids for.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:20 ... if I didn't work out. I have anxiety.

Joe Rogan 1:15:22 Oh, yeah.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:22 The other ... Like, when we were in Europe and I didn't work out, day three, I'm, like, restless, man. And that anxiousness comes out and-

Joe Rogan 1:15:29 To me, that's like going somewhere and not eating. I'm not gonna do that either.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:33 Like, if I go on vacation, I literally bring kettlebells.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:15:36 I have two 70s and two 50s. They travel with me.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:39 You put them in a suitcase?

Joe Rogan 1:15:41 I get them there.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:41 Oh, my God, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:15:42 I ship, ship them to where I'm going.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:43 That's hilarious.

Joe Rogan 1:15:43 I have them delivered. I don't give a fuck, dude. I'm working out, because I'm ... I, I have a problem-

Brigham Buhler 1:15:48 I think Cam Stane said he did that with that rock. Did he tell you? I swear he told me a story. He, he fucking packed that rock that they has people carry.

Joe Rogan 1:15:56 Cam did that?

Brigham Buhler 1:15:56 Yeah, for something. I remember him telling that story.

Joe Rogan 1:15:59 Oh, I'm sure he did.

Brigham Buhler 1:15:59 And I think it got lost or something. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:16:00 He keeps that rock on the mountain. And I'm like, "Don't you worry someone's gonna be a fan to take it?"

Brigham Buhler 1:16:04 (groans)

Joe Rogan 1:16:04 He's like, "No. The kind of person who would take it is too much of a pussy to carry it." (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 1:16:07 Oh my God, that's funny.

Joe Rogan 1:16:10 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 1:16:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:16:11 It's so hilarious, this fucking rock that he carries everywhere.

Brigham Buhler 1:16:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:16:14 But, but, you know, you have to stay healthy. And for me, that's my medicine. I'm not ... If I, if I was a diabetic and I would say, "I'm not taking any insulin."

Brigham Buhler 1:16:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:24 Well, guess what? You're a type 1 diabetic. You ... If you don't take insulin, you're gonna fucking die.

Brigham Buhler 1:16:27 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:28 All right? You ... Unfortunately, you got bad genes when it comes to creation of insulin. That's how I am with exercise, man.

Brigham Buhler 1:16:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:34 Like, I'm doing it. If I take a day off, I'm a maniac. I don't like it.

Brigham Buhler 1:16:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:38 I don't like that feeling. I mean, I can take a day off. I can relax. But day two?

Brigham Buhler 1:16:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:43 Day two is like, whoa.

Brigham Buhler 1:16:44 Yeah. I get it.

Joe Rogan 1:16:44 But it's also the ... My brain is like, "Hey, what are you doing? You're gonna ... You're gonna be a lazy fuck now? Is that what you're doing? You're gonna be a fat pussy?"

Brigham Buhler 1:16:50 But just that hyperfocus and going through a workout, and then you come out the other end, and it's mental. It's a huge mental relief.

Joe Rogan 1:16:57 Gigantic. And it ... And it's good for everybody.

Brigham Buhler 1:16:59 Like, if my anxiety goes from a eight, it's creeping up. Now it's an eight, and then I go work out and it'll be at a two.

Joe Rogan 1:17:04 Exactly. And it's good for everybody. Listen, the nicest people that I know do jujitsu. And I know that sounds crazy. The nicest people that I know are, like, regularly b- yanking on peoples' elbow joints and fucking tackling them.

Brigham Buhler 1:17:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:17:17 They're, they're the nicest people I know. And the reason why they're nice is because they take their fucking medicine.

Brigham Buhler 1:17:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:17:24 They take their anti-aggressive medicine. Like ... And the idea that that somehow is bad, and that, like, what we need to do is, uh, eliminate all masculinity, no. You need to harness it.

Brigham Buhler 1:17:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:35 Just like everything else. I mean, this is just like the same response that we had to nuclear power. Oh, we had Three Mile Island. "Stop the nukes! No more nukes! We've got a pro- Now figure out how to harness it!"

Brigham Buhler 1:17:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:17:45 We were really bad at gasoline in the '70s, when we put fucking lead in it, and that's why everybody got lead poisoning.

Brigham Buhler 1:17:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:17:53 And then we had to come up with unleaded gasoline, which is just, don't add lead to it, you fucking assholes.

Brigham Buhler 1:17:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:59 Don't burn lead and put ... Blast it through the air everywhere you go. That seems fucking insane. Well, we gotta figure out how to harness it.

Brigham Buhler 1:18:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:18:08 Just like we have to figure out how to harness masculinity.

Brigham Buhler 1:18:10 I think we're gonna ... You, you brought up lead, and I've been ... I wanted to get into the ... One, the state of Texas stuff, but which parallels and, and runs into the glyphosate shit, if you wanna talk about that. Do you want-

Joe Rogan 1:18:21 I would love to talk about that.

Brigham Buhler 1:18:22 'Cause one of the things that's happening-

Joe Rogan 1:18:23 'Cause I know that they're ... They've got an alternative to l- glyphosate that's even worse.

Brigham Buhler 1:18:27 Yeah. They do. And so one of the things that's happening is at the federal level, they are looking to give big ag and big chemical immunity on all these chemicals they're spraying on our food, and they're voting in secret. This is another fuckery moment as part of one of the bills that's being reviewed by Congress. They are attempting to vote in secrecy where we don't know who cast their vote to cast unified immunity on any future lawsuit against glyphosate or Atrazine.

Joe Rogan 1:19:01 And, well, we know how well that worked for vaccine manufacturers, so maybe we should try it.

Brigham Buhler 1:19:05 Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:19:06 (laughs)

Brigham Buhler 1:19:06 And we do know, uh ... Let's, let's point this out that the company, Monsanto, that manufacturers glyphosate is the same company that created Agent Orange, is the same company that created DDT, is the same company that, with Bayer, tested their products on Nazi concentration camp victims, is the same company that pushed product into Third World nations where they didn't have checks and balances and couldn't come after them.

Joe Rogan 1:19:30 So let's just stop right there.

Brigham Buhler 1:19:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:19:32 If Satan was a CEO, don't you think he'd be the head of that company?

Brigham Buhler 1:19:35 Oh my God, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:19:36 Could you imagine it? But if it ... Like, if you said, well, there's a company in the world where Satan's the CEO, what, what company do you think that would be? And then you had all this evidence, you lay it out. You're like,