Joe Rogan Experience #2378 - Charlie Sheen

Charlie Sheen 0:00 (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Great to finally meet you, man.

Charlie Sheen 0:14 It's great to meet you. It's a trip and, and, uh, you know, walking in and I'm thinking, "Is there... How is it possible that our paths didn't cross-"

Joe Rogan 0:23 I know, it's weird.

Charlie Sheen 0:23 "... all those years?" I mean, it's- it's- it's conceivable we were in the same venue, or the same building, or at the same party, or at least-

Joe Rogan 0:31 Probably.

Charlie Sheen 0:31 ... something.

Joe Rogan 0:33 I kind of avoided parties. I avoid basically everything. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 0:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:40 I avoided parties, I avoided, uh, premiers, any- anything where there was a red carpet. Uh, like even if I was in a movie, I wouldn't go on the red carpet, I'd go in through the back door.

Charlie Sheen 0:50 Seriously?

Joe Rogan 0:50 Yeah, I don't like it.

Charlie Sheen 0:51 Wow. Wow.

Joe Rogan 0:52 I don't like all the, that fucking, "Look over here. Look over here."

Charlie Sheen 0:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:55 That is just-

Charlie Sheen 0:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:56 ... too fake for me. It just, whatever allergy I have to that flares and I'm like, "I'm going in through the back door. Fuck this."

Charlie Sheen 1:04 Yeah. No, I don't, I don't blame you.

Joe Rogan 1:05 I don't like it.

Charlie Sheen 1:05 I don't blame you. They, they stopped, um, uh, showing me where the back door was.

Joe Rogan 1:10 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 1:10 Because I- I- I support a similar, uh, (laughs) entrance thing. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:17 It's just too weird.

Charlie Sheen 1:18 But it's that, it's, "Look over here. Look over here."

Joe Rogan 1:20 Uh-huh.

Charlie Sheen 1:20 It's that thing. Something happens in that moment.

Joe Rogan 1:23 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:23 And I think it's like, it's, it, it brings you as close to possibly, uh, uh, sterilization-

Joe Rogan 1:29 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 1:29 ... as you can get without, you know, s- uh, uh, surgery.

Joe Rogan 1:32 I think it's bad for you.

Charlie Sheen 1:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34 I think it's leg-

Charlie Sheen 1:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35 I think it's like radiation.

Charlie Sheen 1:36 Ye- yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36 Like, you could take a little bit of it, but, you know-

Charlie Sheen 1:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:38 ... you don't want to be working the X-ray machine your whole life.

Charlie Sheen 1:40 No. No, and then there's always that one lady who keeps calling you back to her.

Joe Rogan 1:44 Right. "Charlie! Charlie!"

Charlie Sheen 1:45 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:46 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:46 "Far left, far left, far left."

Joe Rogan 1:47 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:48 And you've looked at her like seven times already.

Joe Rogan 1:50 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 1:51 And then I'm s- I'm out there thinking, "If it took me this many takes to get a scene right, nobody would ever hire me."

Joe Rogan 1:57 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:58 And you wouldn't get past the first, the first day.

Joe Rogan 2:00 Well, they want to get a million pictures just to get that perfect one where there's a little bit of side-eye to you, just a little-

Charlie Sheen 2:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:05 ... something.

Charlie Sheen 2:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:06 A little purse of the lips.

Charlie Sheen 2:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:08 A little something.

Charlie Sheen 2:08 Right, the one that kind of like you're-

Joe Rogan 2:09 That's the one.

Charlie Sheen 2:10 ... responding to something.

Joe Rogan 2:10 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 2:11 Something's kind of... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11 That's the one.

Charlie Sheen 2:12 But then they choose, which one do they always choose? The one that's absolute dog shit.

Joe Rogan 2:16 Yeah, the one with your mouth open. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 2:17 Exactly. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 2:18 Or your eyes closed.

Charlie Sheen 2:19 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:20 I- I- what I really don't like is the people who like it. Uh, not that I don't like them, is that I don't want to ever see that in myself, and so when I'd be around them, I would just go, "Oh, I gotta get outta here."

Charlie Sheen 2:34 Right. Right, right.

Joe Rogan 2:34 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 2:34 Right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:34 They freak me out. The trappings, you know.

Charlie Sheen 2:36 The trappings. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, is there... 'Cause it feels like, um, that system's been in place for over 100 years, right?

Joe Rogan 2:46 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 2:46 Is there another, is there another way to do it?

Joe Rogan 2:49 Probably not.

Charlie Sheen 2:50 No?

Joe Rogan 2:50 People like it. You know, photographers like it, the press likes it, it's a big thing.

Charlie Sheen 2:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:55 There's a lot of people, there's a lot of lights flashing, it seems legit.

Charlie Sheen 2:58 Right. Right, right.

Joe Rogan 2:59 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 3:00 I just, um, I don't, I can never, um, feel relaxed when everybody's yelling.

Joe Rogan 3:05 Right.

Charlie Sheen 3:06 You know?

Joe Rogan 3:07 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 3:07 It's, that's just-

Joe Rogan 3:07 That's totally unnatural.

Charlie Sheen 3:08 It's completely unnatural. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:10 The only way that would be happening in real life is if, like, you were on trial.

Charlie Sheen 3:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:14 You know, like you were being paraded in front of a bunch of people. "It's him! There he is!"

Charlie Sheen 3:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:18 "Look over here!"

Charlie Sheen 3:20 It's like... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:21 You know, it's odd.

Charlie Sheen 3:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:22 It's very odd.

Charlie Sheen 3:23 Yeah. It's almost, it's a form of a perp walk, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 3:25 A little bit of a perp walk-

Charlie Sheen 3:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:27 ... and just a, a little bit of, uh, um, a mental illness exhibition.

Charlie Sheen 3:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:32 You know?

Charlie Sheen 3:33 Yeah. I just had it for the first time, um, like last, it would've been last Thursday.

Joe Rogan 3:38 The first time ever?

Charlie Sheen 3:39 E- n- no, for the first time in, like, uh-

Joe Rogan 3:40 A long time.

Charlie Sheen 3:41 ... in, like, maybe over a decade, uh, at the Netflix premiere for The Dark.

Joe Rogan 3:45 Ah.

Charlie Sheen 3:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:45 Yeah, yeah.

Charlie Sheen 3:46 And it was, um, it was kind of cool, like the first, you know, f- 34 seconds.

Joe Rogan 3:53 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 3:53 I was like, "Okay, I remember this." And then it was like, "Yeah, yeah, I fucking remember this."

Joe Rogan 3:57 Yeah. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 3:57 Wow. Damn. And then I, like, I'm, I'm in the, this buil- right, the sun just beating right on my, on my forehead.

Joe Rogan 4:04 Uh-huh.

Charlie Sheen 4:04 And it's just, I could feel myself start to sweat. Now I'm questioning the whole outfit.

Joe Rogan 4:09 Ugh. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 4:09 You know, the underwear choice. All of it. It's just like every decision I made leading up to that-

Joe Rogan 4:15 (sighs)

Charlie Sheen 4:15 ... was completely wrong.

Joe Rogan 4:17 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 4:17 And the, and it's all being documented, you know?

Joe Rogan 4:20 Oh.

Charlie Sheen 4:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:20 It's so odd. Yeah. What's really funny, at the, when I'm, when you first walked into the studio, you brought up a tweet that I had sent-

Charlie Sheen 4:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:29 ... in 2011, and I think this was when you were going crazy.

Charlie Sheen 4:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:34 And, uh, I think this was also when my friend, Russell Peters, was doing those tours with you.

Charlie Sheen 4:39 Oh, that's right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:39 It said, "I need to get Charlie Sheen on my podcast. I know it's a long shot, but a boy could dream. Bet everybody knows him. Help me hook it up."

Charlie Sheen 4:45 Wow.

Joe Rogan 4:45 Well, here we are-

Charlie Sheen 4:46 Wow.

Joe Rogan 4:46 ... 14 years later.

Charlie Sheen 4:47 Yeah, you know, it takes what it takes, right?

Joe Rogan 4:49 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 4:49 Um-

Joe Rogan 4:50 It's funny-

Charlie Sheen 4:50 Gosh.

Joe Rogan 4:50 ... 'cause back then, I don't think, I had no guests.

Charlie Sheen 4:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:52 I think I had, Anthony Bourdain was the only, like, real guest that I had had, uh-

Charlie Sheen 4:56 Seriously?

Joe Rogan 4:56 ... by the time... Yeah, he was 2011 as well.

Charlie Sheen 4:59 Wow, and, and how many shows had you done by then?

Joe Rogan 5:01 Not that many by then. I don't know.

Charlie Sheen 5:03 So, were you just doing solo shows, just like covering topics and talking to camera?

Joe Rogan 5:06 I would do it mostly with my friends.

Charlie Sheen 5:07 Ah, okay.

Joe Rogan 5:07 Mostly with other comics.

Charlie Sheen 5:08 Okay.

Joe Rogan 5:09 We would just sit and talk shit and then eventually-

Charlie Sheen 5:11 At, at like your house or... Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 5:12 Yeah, it was at my house back then.

Charlie Sheen 5:14 Okay.

Joe Rogan 5:15 Yeah. And then-

Charlie Sheen 5:15 So, it looked nothing like this?

Joe Rogan 5:16 No, no, no. It slowly had to get out... It w- it's like I had too many weirdos that I had to bring by my house and I have young kids at the time.

Charlie Sheen 5:24 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 5:24 They were really young. I was like, "This is just too strange."

Charlie Sheen 5:26 Wow.

Joe Rogan 5:26 "Bringing these weirdos-"

Charlie Sheen 5:27 Yeah, sure.

Joe Rogan 5:27 "... by my house and..." You know. It was just too odd. I was like, "Maybe some people shouldn't know exactly where I s- I sleep."

Charlie Sheen 5:34 Right. Right, right.

Joe Rogan 5:35 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 5:36 Yeah. And it's interesting 'cause driving here, um, I was buried in my phone just, you know, for, for the right reasons. Um, so I have no idea where we are.

Joe Rogan 5:44 Good.

Charlie Sheen 5:44 So it was kind of like a, a version of being blindfolded where there's, with a sack over my head, you know?

Joe Rogan 5:48 Yeah, that's probably how we should do it. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 5:52 (laughs) Can you imagine then, like, I'm the guy they're blaming for introducing this?

Joe Rogan 5:56 Just put everybody in a blindfold and put them in the back of an SUV-

Charlie Sheen 5:59 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 5:59 ... and drive them to an undisclosed location.

Charlie Sheen 6:01 And, and make the guy drive a few circles around-

Joe Rogan 6:03 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 6:03 ... in, like, some, you know, neighborhood right over there. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:06 Yeah. Yeah. Um-... but we did it. We're here. That, those things that you did with Russell Peters were so fascinating. It was... The whole thing was so fascinating. I watched the Netflix thing. I watched the first episode, and, uh, the, the, the whole experience of watching the guy from Platoon, the guy that everybody knows, this is like this gigantic, super cool movie star, Hot Shots, all these different things, to watch you just- not just go off the rails with drugs, but like, be super open about it. You were like the first guy super open about it, you know? And everybody just embraced it. Instead of it being like, "Oh, Charlie Sheen's doing drugs. That's so sad." It was like, "We love him!"

Charlie Sheen 6:52 Keep going.

Joe Rogan 6:53 It was kind of crazy.

Charlie Sheen 6:54 Keep going.

Joe Rogan 6:55 All the tiger blood stuff, and winning. Everybody was saying winning all the time, and it, it-

Charlie Sheen 7:00 It was...

Joe Rogan 7:01 What was that like for you? Was that like... Was it the worst kind of reinforcement? Or what, or did it let you-

Charlie Sheen 7:09 That's-

Joe Rogan 7:09 Like, were you surprised by it?

Charlie Sheen 7:11 That's a great way to describe it. It was... It, it is, yeah, I, uh, the worst kind of reinforcement. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:16 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 7:16 It was like, uh, s- unintentionally or otherwise celebrating a d- the, the, the, the, a guy's demise.

Joe Rogan 7:24 Right.

Charlie Sheen 7:25 You know? And, and, and I guess the, the, the train wreck was so spectacular that, or it was such a spectacle that they couldn't turn away. But they were also being invited in to, to follow it down the tracks.

Joe Rogan 7:37 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 7:38 You know? And, and, and somebody asked me about it, and, and, and I, you know, I don't know if I was the conductor or if I was riding the caboose or both simultaneously. Um, it was a trip, because thinking back on it, it's... You know, some of it just kind of exists in, in, uh, just Polaroid snapshots that kind of drift past through the mist, you know?

Joe Rogan 7:59 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 7:59 Uh, other, other moments are in high def but kind of seen through a tunnel vision.

Joe Rogan 8:04 Hmm.

Charlie Sheen 8:05 Like, and it, and, and it's... It was... Uh, there was an energy, or s- uh, it was... There was an energy I tapped into that felt like I was playing a role, but I couldn't figure out f- uh, wha- you know, what the movie, what the plot was.

Joe Rogan 8:19 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 8:20 Who my costars were. (laughs) Where somebody, you know... If somebody'd show up with a, like a jig- page one re-write.

Joe Rogan 8:27 Right.

Charlie Sheen 8:27 That's what we fucking need, you know?

Joe Rogan 8:29 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 8:29 Um, and it, and it got away from me, and, and had it not been encouraged, I think it could've been curtailed. It could've been shut down a lot sooner. You know?

Joe Rogan 8:40 Right. But you, you become kind of captured to the image.

Charlie Sheen 8:44 Yes.

Joe Rogan 8:44 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 8:45 And there was something that, uh, just recently, something I stumbled onto. Um, it's, um... I was, I was... In, in some way, um, I was being a bully. It had a bullying kind of energy about it, you know? And I've never been that guy. Like, I-

Joe Rogan 9:01 How so? How so, like bullying?

Charlie Sheen 9:03 The way I was attacking people, and the way I was challenging people.

Joe Rogan 9:05 Oh.

Charlie Sheen 9:05 I was like the tough guy on the block, and had all these soldiers. I had this whole cadre behind me, and it was like, you know, inviting people into the ring. I've never been in the ring. What are we doing? You know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:16 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 9:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:16 You're on coke. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 9:19 (laughs) Yeah. I'm on, I'm on-

Joe Rogan 9:19 That's what it is. It's total cocaine behavior.

Charlie Sheen 9:21 Among other things. Um, yeah, and, and I think, um, it, there was a whole testosterone component as well-

Joe Rogan 9:28 Hmm.

Charlie Sheen 9:28 ... that was, um, out of hand, just out of control. Because there's... You know, what do they recommend? Like, a quarter-sized dollop in, like every other day, and... No. Uh, I, there's a line in the book where I say, "I was s- I was slathering that, that shit on like a fucking Ponds commercial."

Joe Rogan 9:42 Oh, so you were using the cream?

Charlie Sheen 9:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:44 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 9:45 Yeah. Which is hard to measure.

Joe Rogan 9:47 It's not just hard to measure, it gets on other people.

Charlie Sheen 9:49 Oh.

Joe Rogan 9:50 I read this story about this guy who was on TRT Cream, and his child started like showing signs of, uh, premature development.

Charlie Sheen 10:00 Oh.

Joe Rogan 10:00 And they realized that this kid's testosterone level was through the roof because it's through the dermis, right? It's through the skin.

Charlie Sheen 10:07 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 10:07 So he's getting it on his arms, and then he's hugging his child-

Charlie Sheen 10:11 Hugging, wow.

Joe Rogan 10:11 ... and the kid is getting juiced.

Charlie Sheen 10:13 Like, what were the kid's numbers? Do we know?

Joe Rogan 10:15 We don't know.

Charlie Sheen 10:15 Like into seven, eight hundreds? Or...

Joe Rogan 10:16 I don't think they released that, but-

Charlie Sheen 10:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:17 ... they, they said that it probably permanently affected the kid's development.

Charlie Sheen 10:21 Oh. Wow.

Joe Rogan 10:23 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 10:23 Wow.

Joe Rogan 10:23 Because this kid is like experiencing puberty at three. You know, you're getting bombarded with testosterone-

Charlie Sheen 10:30 Sure.

Joe Rogan 10:30 ... while your dad is holding you.

Charlie Sheen 10:31 Insane. Insane.

Joe Rogan 10:33 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 10:33 Is that part of the reason they recommend like an inner thigh application?

Joe Rogan 10:38 I guess then the only person who would get it is the person you're having sex with.

Charlie Sheen 10:40 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 10:41 But that wouldn't be so good for her either.

Charlie Sheen 10:43 Exactly. Or, uh, or, or your horse.

Joe Rogan 10:44 Right. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 10:44 Yeah. Stupid.

Joe Rogan 10:46 Or your horse.

Charlie Sheen 10:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:46 It might be good for the horse. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 10:47 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:49 So there was testosterone and cocaine together at the same time. That's, that sounds like a combination of hubris.

Charlie Sheen 10:55 And a lot of rage.

Joe Rogan 10:56 And a lot of rage.

Charlie Sheen 10:56 And a lot of rage, but the rage I think, um... It's, it's interesting 'cause when you finally get some distance from something, you start to realize that, that it wasn't really so much about what you said it was about in the moment.

Joe Rogan 11:08 Hmm.

Charlie Sheen 11:08 And I, and I'm, you know, really realizing it was... It wasn't about the job, it wasn't about Chuck, it was, uh, it was about all the stuff i- in my personal life, you know? It was about n- trying to just be, be a certain guy at work, be a certain guy at home, and then just never having the time to be a certain guy with me. And I just, I just couldn't... I couldn't find any place to, to f- find any refuge or solace or any type of... just a moment to breathe, to-

Joe Rogan 11:33 Hmm.

Charlie Sheen 11:33 ... just to decompress, you know?

Joe Rogan 11:35 That's so important.

Charlie Sheen 11:37 Yeah, and I... There was a... It's not in the book because I can't really... I don't remember it well enough to put it in the book, and that was kind of how I decided what's in there and what's not. Right? Um, or, or if something just isn't true, it's not in the book, and so, um... But it, it, um... Y- you know, I was, I was, I was trying to f- just kind of... Y- you know, f- like... You know, I, I, I, I went through two divorces and, and had four children during, d- during that run of eight years, you know? And so, um-

Joe Rogan 12:13 That's crazy.

Charlie Sheen 12:13 It's insane, yeah, and, and...... they, they both, you know, they, they fell apart for, for, for married reasons and whatever, and, and, but th- th- ther- there wasn't time to heal the last one before the next one-

Joe Rogan 12:27 Right.

Charlie Sheen 12:27 ... kicked off. And, but that's all on me. You know what I'm saying? That's all on me, making those decisions.

Joe Rogan 12:32 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 12:32 That's one of the through lines in the book is that it, like, really comes down to really being all about choices. You know? Um, but then, um, yeah, and, and, and, and, but it, it just, to, for, for it to be, just talking about the bullying stuff, you know-

Joe Rogan 12:52 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 12:52 ... for it to be so, so directed, and a guy who, let's like (laughs) , if you really break it down, what did he really do to me? He created (laughs) this environment with a dream character in a, in an, in a, in an amazing show. Or so people tell me, right? Um, that, that, that was th- you know, the toast of the town, right? And, and all he asked for me (laughs) was to just, like, you know, just f- show up, be responsible, know your lines, hit your marks, do your fucking job, you know? That, tho- tho- th- those were the only demands. Essentially, the stuff I told him (laughs) before I took the job (laughs) that I was going to do.

Joe Rogan 13:33 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 13:33 So, and then, (laughs) I turn it into that. You know? It, it's really difficult to really look back on that and figure out why it got that far, how it got that far.

Joe Rogan 13:45 I could help you out.

Charlie Sheen 13:45 Okay.

Joe Rogan 13:46 Testosterone and cocaine.

Charlie Sheen 13:47 Testosterone and cocaine. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:49 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 13:49 Yeah. It'll have you-

Joe Rogan 13:50 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 13:51 ... having all kinds of conversations with people-

Joe Rogan 13:52 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 13:52 ... in your head that'll tell you exactly what's, what you're doing is correct.

Joe Rogan 13:56 Right.

Charlie Sheen 13:56 Sorry, I lost, un-

Joe Rogan 13:57 Did you ever talk to Chuck? Did you ever, like-

Charlie Sheen 13:58 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:58 ... Chuck Lorre-

Charlie Sheen 13:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:59 ... like, sorry about-

Charlie Sheen 14:00 Yeah, no, it was-

Joe Rogan 14:01 Yeah?

Charlie Sheen 14:01 Yeah, no, that was, I was really grateful we were able to do that.

Joe Rogan 14:04 Oh, that's nice.

Charlie Sheen 14:04 Because, yeah, I was carrying that around for too long, you know?

Joe Rogan 14:06 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 14:07 He hired me for a show he had a few years ago called Bookie with Sebastian Maniscalco, right?

Joe Rogan 14:12 Oh, yeah, that's right.

Charlie Sheen 14:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:14 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 14:14 So I came in and did, I played myself, did w- a few scenes, did a cameo, you know, did some fun stuff, and just back on a set with Chuck, and, and it was like, it was, it just felt like it, like it, like it, like it did in the, in the early parts of-

Joe Rogan 14:26 Well, that's, well, good on him-

Charlie Sheen 14:27 ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:27 ... for not holding a grudge, too.

Charlie Sheen 14:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:30 That's, that's awesome.

Charlie Sheen 14:31 Sorry I lost that thought earlier.

Joe Rogan 14:32 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 14:32 I was kind of like-

Joe Rogan 14:32 No, no, no, no, no.

Charlie Sheen 14:32 ... "Where the hell was I going?"

Joe Rogan 14:33 Well, it's a, it's a complicated thing to think about, like, "Why did I go off the rails?" You know? It's like, and it's very reasonable. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 14:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:42 Here's the thing. Uh, d- I don't think anybody but Charlie Sheen knows what it's like to be Charlie Sheen, and in my estimation, there are a scant few people that have become massive superstars at a young age-

Charlie Sheen 14:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:59 ... and came through it sane. I don't know anybody.

Charlie Sheen 15:04 Oh.

Joe Rogan 15:04 Everybody, I mean, I know people that have regained equilibrium and got their footing back-

Charlie Sheen 15:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:09 ... and now they're on the right track, and, but no one gets through without a hiccup. It's, everyone kind of goes crazy because you're living in this completely alien world that no one can help you navigate.

Charlie Sheen 15:21 Even if you've watched the, the people closest to you-

Joe Rogan 15:25 Right, your dad.

Charlie Sheen 15:25 ... go, go through it-

Joe Rogan 15:26 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 15:26 ... your, most of your life, and, like, just, like, right over there.

Joe Rogan 15:30 Yes.

Charlie Sheen 15:30 Like, in the l- in the next room.

Joe Rogan 15:32 Right, right.

Charlie Sheen 15:32 You know? Or in the same room.

Joe Rogan 15:34 Right.

Charlie Sheen 15:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:34 And a bunch of your friends.

Charlie Sheen 15:36 Yes.

Joe Rogan 15:36 It doesn't matter.

Charlie Sheen 15:37 It doesn't matter.

Joe Rogan 15:37 It's still bananas.

Charlie Sheen 15:38 It doesn't matter. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:39 It's still an alien world that you live in-

Charlie Sheen 15:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:42 ... that no one that you run into during the day except the people like that can understand.

Charlie Sheen 15:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:46 Which is like, people are always like, "Why do celebrities just hang out with each other?" Well, because th- to them, they're the only people that are normal.

Charlie Sheen 15:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:52 They're the only people that, like, I get it, I can't go to the supermarket either. I get it, I g- you know, I get fucking TMZed at the airport as well.

Charlie Sheen 15:59 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 16:00 It's like f- it's normal for them, 'cause everybody else is like, "Whoa, it's Charlie Sheen," and they're just captivated, like, you-

Charlie Sheen 16:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:07 ... kind of need to be around people that understand what that life is like. But the problem is, they're all going crazy too.

Charlie Sheen 16:14 Right, yeah. Yeah, it's not, um, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a great support group, um, to a degree (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 16:23 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 16:23 You know what I'm saying? I think you can rely on them for the things that you have in common.

Joe Rogan 16:29 Right.

Charlie Sheen 16:29 But maybe take the more complicated shit just, just right across the street, you know?

Joe Rogan 16:34 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 16:34 To, yeah, to the experts.

Joe Rogan 16:36 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 16:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:37 Yeah. Yeah, you can't rely on them for everything.

Charlie Sheen 16:40 No.

Joe Rogan 16:40 Because they're going through it too.

Charlie Sheen 16:42 Can I just get a tissue, do you mind?

Joe Rogan 16:43 Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

Narrator 16:44 Uh-

Joe Rogan 16:44 Jimmy, you got a box?

Charlie Sheen 16:48 Awesome, thank you. Sorry, I'm just-

Joe Rogan 16:51 No worries. Getting sweaty? Is it hot in here? We can turn the AC on.

Charlie Sheen 16:56 No, I'll tell you exactly what happened. I got, I f- lost that thought, and then I tried to cover, and then I realized, "This is a, he's not buying this," and then I started sweating.

Joe Rogan 17:03 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 17:03 And I started fucking sweating. So I'm just gonna (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 17:05 No, it's normal, man.

Charlie Sheen 17:07 ... lose control. Sorry, man.

Joe Rogan 17:07 Just say you lost your thought. It's all good.

Charlie Sheen 17:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:09 It happens all the time. It happens to me too.

Charlie Sheen 17:11 (laughs) Why is that though? Is our brain already trying to figure out the next thing that's going to attach to it, and by doing so, it took that, the main thing and just dismissed it?

Joe Rogan 17:21 (clicks tongue) Perhaps.

Charlie Sheen 17:22 Okay.

Joe Rogan 17:22 It's also brains are just not that good.

Charlie Sheen 17:24 Huh.

Joe Rogan 17:25 You know?

Charlie Sheen 17:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:26 They're, they're pretty good compared to chimp- panzees and dogs-

Charlie Sheen 17:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:29 ... and stuff like that.

Charlie Sheen 17:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:29 But, you know, they have a lot of issues.

Charlie Sheen 17:31 Okay.

Joe Rogan 17:32 Just like when you were talking about your memories. Like, my me- all, my memories of my whole life are like a series of blurry snapshots that I can go, "Oh, yeah, and then we went there. Oh, yeah, that happened."

Charlie Sheen 17:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:43 "Oh, yeah."

Charlie Sheen 17:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:44 There's very few memories that I have that are, like, rock solid memories.

Charlie Sheen 17:47 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:48 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 17:48 It's, I totally get that. And there's a little thing in the book where I talk about memories are tricky.

Joe Rogan 17:53 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 17:53 And is it the, is it a story someone told me? Is it, is it, is it me in that moment? Or is it a, is it a, you know, a, a creased ph- photo I saw in an old album in the s- '70s or '80s?

Joe Rogan 18:06 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 18:07 Is it, was the memory given to me or, or, or did I, did I create it?

Joe Rogan 18:11 (clicks tongue) Right.Yeah. And there's also the, the real possibility that you have false memories, and people do that all the time. And p- they've, they've even shown that they can introduce memories into people's minds, and, and then with enough sort of, uh, encouragement-

Charlie Sheen 18:27 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 18:27 ... or revisiting it, that person will accept it as a, a pure memory, and-

Charlie Sheen 18:31 That it actually happened to them?

Joe Rogan 18:32 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 18:32 Wow.

Joe Rogan 18:32 And they'll, they'll talk about it, like, outside of that, and they'll have no knowledge that it was a false memory.

Charlie Sheen 18:38 Wow.

Joe Rogan 18:39 Yeah. 'Cause it's just not a good system. It's a system designed to keep you away from scary things. Like, there's the wolf. "Oh, get away from the wolf. You know wolves are bad. I, I remember. I remember wolves are bad."

Charlie Sheen 18:49 Got it. Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:49 "That's the spider. That's poison. Get away from that spider. That spider is poison." But, like, day-to-day, uh, d- everyday normal shit, uh, well, it's like, how much of a memory does it really need to keep? It's just, your brain's just not that good.

Charlie Sheen 19:03 And then, and then even... And, and then so do certain... Do, um, certain memories then get overlaid with, um, a, a, a newer version of that-

Joe Rogan 19:13 Yep.

Charlie Sheen 19:13 Okay.

Joe Rogan 19:13 Yeah. They get narratives.

Charlie Sheen 19:15 They get incentives. They get narratives.

Joe Rogan 19:15 And you, and you start repeating the memory, and your memory becomes of you repeating the memory.

Charlie Sheen 19:20 Wow.

Joe Rogan 19:21 So it's like you don't even really-

Charlie Sheen 19:22 Wow.

Joe Rogan 19:22 ... have the memory anymore. You have... You know how to say it.

Charlie Sheen 19:25 Okay. Didn't that happen with, um, with the... that one Kaczynski witness?

Joe Rogan 19:31 Did it?

Charlie Sheen 19:32 Y-

Joe Rogan 19:32 The Unabomber witness?

Charlie Sheen 19:33 Yes.

Joe Rogan 19:33 Interesting.

Charlie Sheen 19:34 Yeah. Because that's why the first, uh, composite that was put out really, uh, ultimately wound up looking nothing like the actual guy.

Joe Rogan 19:44 Oh, interesting.

Charlie Sheen 19:45 Yeah. There was a thing that... Yeah. There was a thing where her memory was corrupted by a different description from somebody else.

Joe Rogan 19:55 This episode is brought to you by Paleo Valley. It is not easy finding a snack that's healthy and tastes good, but that's where Paleo Valley's 100% grass-fed beef sticks come in. You might be shocked to find out that most of the other leading brands you might grab at Costco use things like citric acid, lactic acid, and even black mold as preservatives, but not Paleo Valley. They use old-world methods of fermenting their sticks so that they're shelf-stable without using chemicals or questionable ingredients. Fermentation is also good for your gut. Did I mention these guys have over 55 million beef sticks sold? So yeah, a lot of people are into them, and if you're not, no worries because they offer a 60-day money-back guarantee. Go to paleovalley.com and use the code ROGAN to get 20% off, or find them on Amazon. Give them a shot, and you'll see why everybody's hooked. Well, there's also the factor that the Unabomber was such a traumatic event that this person was probably super freaked out, which is when your memory is the worst.

Charlie Sheen 21:04 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 21:05 Yeah. That's why eyewitness accounts of, like, murders and chaos, they're really bad.

Charlie Sheen 21:10 Right. Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:10 They're really bad.

Charlie Sheen 21:11 They're s-

Joe Rogan 21:11 Very unreliable.

Charlie Sheen 21:12 There's some really, really awful percentage-

Joe Rogan 21:16 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 21:16 ... about when... even when they wind up in a, in a courtroom.

Joe Rogan 21:19 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 21:19 Like the, like the determining... Y- like the final nail-

Joe Rogan 21:23 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 21:23 ... from the person, that guy, that it's like sometimes it's as high as, like, 60%?

Joe Rogan 21:29 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 21:29 That they're just wrong.

Joe Rogan 21:31 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 21:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:31 And then they'll convince themselves that they're right because they've already said it. So then the ego gets involved. And then, you know, it's just... Traumatic events leave you... You're in a high state of anxiety, and you're not thinking clearly.

Charlie Sheen 21:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:43 You're freaked out, and you, you don't... Like, when, when they have events like, like say, like, 9/11, um, if you were anywhere near that and you saw, like, people jump off the buildings and, and fall to their deaths or... Like, your memories of that are probably really clear 'cause it was fucking crazy.

Charlie Sheen 22:04 Right. Right. Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:05 But your memories of people that you might have saw that were running away or maybe you saw a guy in a van and he looked fishy or maybe this or maybe that. It's like... And then a few days go by, and you, you probably haven't slept well. You're all freaked out.

Charlie Sheen 22:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:19 Now your memory is probably a mess. It's probably filled with the news now, and then there's other people's eyewitness accounts. And, and, you know, you don't know what the fuck happened.

Charlie Sheen 22:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:28 You, you, you know, ob- like, you see someone die, you see someone jump off a building, you're gonna remember that. But there's some stuff that it's just our m- you know... This is one of the scariest things about transhumanism, is that it's really appealing in the idea that it... They give you a little hard drive in your brain, and now from now on, every time you want a memory, you can go just like... You know, you look on your phone, like your iPhone. On this day in 2017, you're like, "Oh, look at us. Oh, that's cool." You're gonna be able to do that in your brain, you know? And the way that we're gonna buy into it is because our memory sucks. 'Cause it's just-

Charlie Sheen 23:02 That, that's how they're gonna sell it to us?

Joe Rogan 23:04 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 23:04 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 23:05 Yeah. I mean, do you remember your phone number when you were a kid?

Charlie Sheen 23:08 Um, no. But I remember my address because it rhymed.

Joe Rogan 23:11 That's nice.

Charlie Sheen 23:12 Yeah. It was 7212 Bird View Avenue, Malibu.

Joe Rogan 23:15 Well, you used to remember your phone number. What happened? It goes away 'cause your memory sucks.

Charlie Sheen 23:19 Right. I, I, I, I know my parents' number because they still have a landline.

Joe Rogan 23:23 Oh, they're still rocking the landline?

Charlie Sheen 23:25 Yeah, they are. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:26 Wow.

Charlie Sheen 23:26 And they have an answering machine.

Joe Rogan 23:28 Whoa.

Charlie Sheen 23:28 Yeah. That during dinner, they haven't really turned it down far enough.

Joe Rogan 23:32 Oh, and then people start talking in the background?

Charlie Sheen 23:34 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:36 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 23:36 But it's just part of it. It's part of the-

Joe Rogan 23:39 What? (laughs) It's wild.

Charlie Sheen 23:39 It's part of the ex- part of the experience, yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:39 They're rocking a landline with an answering machine in 2025. That is-

Charlie Sheen 23:44 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:44 It's probably the way to do it. I used to love the answering machine. When you come home, the light would be flashing like, "Someone likes me."

Charlie Sheen 23:50 Right. Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 23:50 "Somebody called."

Charlie Sheen 23:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:51 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 23:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:52 It was cool. It was like you had a dog coming home to wait (laughs) , like, to, to visit you when you came home.

Charlie Sheen 23:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:57 Like, "Oh, look."

Charlie Sheen 23:59 It's like in Deuce Bigalow when it's like he's (laughs) at his lowest point, and that thing in the light is just never blinking.

Joe Rogan 24:04 R- I forgot about that.

Charlie Sheen 24:05 You, you have no new messages.

Joe Rogan 24:08 Yeah. That was a wild time where you could get phone calls. That's the other thing is, like, you got famous before the internet, too.

Narrator 24:15 ... which is a different world. It's a different world, 'cause there's not that many of you. There's way less famous people. There's way more famous people now.

Charlie Sheen 24:23 Yeah.

Narrator 24:24 You got famous, like super duper famous, at 21 years old with no internet.

Charlie Sheen 24:29 Trip out. Yeah, I know.

Narrator 24:31 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 24:32 (laughs)

Narrator 24:32 How does anybody expect you to come out normal? Jesus Christ.

Charlie Sheen 24:36 And, and, and, and it's... And you try... You can't really even explain to someone that, that, that, that wasn't around during all that. You can't really explain what it felt like, 'cause they, they look at it as the things that were missing. And, and there, there wasn't anything missing, you know?

Narrator 24:51 Right, right.

Charlie Sheen 24:52 It was about having to really be engaged in everything you were doing, you know? You had to show up to, to, to, to, y- you know, uh, to gain... T- t- to get a like, you had to enter the building, you know?

Narrator 25:06 Right, right, right.

Charlie Sheen 25:06 You had to go to a... on a talk show. You had to attend a junket. You... You know what I'm saying?

Narrator 25:11 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 25:12 And you couldn't... And nobody knew... Nobody knew what the behind-the-scenes of your movie looked like until, you know, years later on the DVD feature or, or the VHS feature-

Narrator 25:21 Right.

Charlie Sheen 25:22 ... that they finally saw some of that stuff, you know?

Narrator 25:24 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 25:24 It wasn't, it wasn't a- all, all-access 24/7, 365, you know?

Narrator 25:31 And for some people, they can't leave it alone. They, they have to live stream during the day. They're live-streaming from their trailer. They're live-streaming on... in their car on the way home. They're like...

Charlie Sheen 25:40 Yeah, what is that about?

Narrator 25:41 They're nuts. They're just locked into this weird new world that we're living in.

Charlie Sheen 25:46 But is it... I mean, is it because there's genuinely people that are tuning in with enthusiasm, that are looking forward to that live stream in the car ride home? Or because the person f- or, or is it a combination?

Narrator 26:00 I think it's those things, and it's also that thing that you said that you didn't ever get, they're scared of. You didn't ever get alone time.

Charlie Sheen 26:07 Mm.

Narrator 26:08 Just, just time to decompress and think.

Charlie Sheen 26:10 Interesting.

Narrator 26:10 Just be by yourself. No phone, no TV. Just fucking sit on the couch and just, like, catch, catch your breath.

Charlie Sheen 26:17 Right.

Narrator 26:17 And they don't want that. That's... They're scared of that-

Charlie Sheen 26:19 I like that-

Narrator 26:20 So they're just constantly engaged with something.

Charlie Sheen 26:22 I like entire days of that-

Narrator 26:24 Ooh, that's nice.

Charlie Sheen 26:24 ... alone on the couch-

Narrator 26:26 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 26:26 ... watching TV.

Narrator 26:26 That's nice.

Charlie Sheen 26:27 (laughs)

Narrator 26:28 It's nice to just shut off, right? It really is. It's, uh... All work, no play, not good.

Charlie Sheen 26:35 Not good at all.

Narrator 26:35 Not good.

Charlie Sheen 26:36 No.

Narrator 26:36 Bad for you, and it... bad for your work too, 'cause it makes you just kind of... It gets dreary. You don't... Y- you don't have the same enthusiasm for it anymore. You know? It's like you-

Charlie Sheen 26:47 Yeah.

Narrator 26:48 ... need discipline, but you also need enthusiasm.

Charlie Sheen 26:51 You know what I was gonna say earlier? Thanks. Okay, all right. The memory just, you know, uh, j- dr- dropped another, uh, token in the (laughs) in the, in the slot. Um, is that I now... Now, it's... Y- you know, it doesn't even connect.

Narrator 27:05 It doesn't?

Charlie Sheen 27:06 Um...

Narrator 27:07 Let's find out. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 27:08 Well, no, n- then I's... I actually forgot it again.

Narrator 27:11 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 27:11 How about that? Is that fucking nuts?

Narrator 27:14 It's normal. It's normal. When you, um... When you first got Platoon, did you have any idea, like, what the fuck was gonna happen?

Charlie Sheen 27:23 I didn't. I didn't.

Narrator 27:25 Is that... For, for people today, to, to understand how big that movie was, 'cause it was... it was one of the very first realistic war movies. And, I think very importantly, it was done by Oliver Stone, who was actually a veteran of the Vietnam War. You remembering what you wrote down? What you, uh...

Charlie Sheen 27:44 Just that, that piece, yeah.

Narrator 27:45 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 27:45 I'm not, I'm not, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna forget it again.

Narrator 27:47 Okay.

Charlie Sheen 27:47 Pardon. Sorry.

Narrator 27:49 But that... It was... it was a different kind of war movie, you know?

Charlie Sheen 27:53 Yeah, it, um-

Narrator 27:55 Much in the lines of your dad's movie.

Charlie Sheen 27:57 Yeah.

Narrator 27:58 You know? And that, that was a very different kind of war movie as well.

Charlie Sheen 28:00 Yeah, Apocalypse from-

Narrator 28:02 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 28:02 ... here, Platoon, you know, boots on the ground.

Narrator 28:06 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 28:07 Um, the script didn't read like it was going to be a masterpiece. The, the script read, um, like a, like a... k- kind of like a docudrama, sort of movie-of-the-week. It didn't-

Narrator 28:25 Hmm.

Charlie Sheen 28:25 Didn't read that script and say, "Oh, wow. Okay, yeah, this is the one. People are gonna really... Wow, they're gonna worship this thing." It didn't... The dialogue was very clipped and very, um, very specific. Um, it, it... You kind of never really knew where you were in the script, in the scene descriptions, you know?

Narrator 28:47 Hmm.

Charlie Sheen 28:48 I- i- the script was so lean. I think it was, like, barely 100 pages.

Narrator 28:52 Really?

Charlie Sheen 28:53 Yeah. Um, so... But it, it... I, I, I didn't realize sort of, um, what, what we were doing until we were actually doing it. Usually I can read a scene and get a sense of, you know, what my responsibilities are gonna be or how we're gonna break it down, or at least, you know, how, how I'm gonna see it on the screen. And I couldn't, I couldn't do that with Platoon, because all the terrain, all the scenes, everything kind of felt very similar, you know?

Narrator 29:25 Really?

Charlie Sheen 29:25 Yeah, and the original title was The Platoon.

Narrator 29:29 Hmm.

Charlie Sheen 29:30 You think it's a- as big a hit if he keeps the "the"?

Narrator 29:32 Yeah, I don't think it matters.

Charlie Sheen 29:34 (laughs)

Narrator 29:34 (laughs) It's a great movie.

Charlie Sheen 29:35 Thank you.

Narrator 29:36 (coughs) Thank you.

Charlie Sheen 29:36 It's a great movie, it doesn't matter.

Narrator 29:38 But we started to feel it as, as we got deeper into it. And, and, and Oliver did something brilliant where he, he decided to film it in continuity. Like, from page one, day one, all the way to the final-

Charlie Sheen 29:51 Ah.

Narrator 29:51 ... day was the final page, and that, and that gave us a chance to, like... When something was finished, you were done with it, and, and you didn't have to know how you were gonna react or how you already reacted to something that hadn't happened yet.

Charlie Sheen 30:03 Right.

Narrator 30:04 And when people died in the movie, they got sent home.

Charlie Sheen 30:08 Hmm.

Narrator 30:08 So they were just like... The next day, they were just gone. I guess he wanted us to feel that sense of just someone y- gone, that lost, that, that, you know, sadness, you know?

Charlie Sheen 30:18 Yeah.

Narrator 30:19 And I'm not saying that I, I would know how that felt in the real thing, but we bonded really-

Charlie Sheen 30:24 ... you know, pretty, pretty, th- uh, de- Uh, yeah, we were bonded in a way that, um, it's because we, we were the only people that we had in the middle of that country, in the middle of that jungle, in the middle of that movie. Um, so you really missed somebody when they were suddenly gone.

Joe Rogan 30:40 I would love to ask... I mean, I've had Oliver on a couple of times, but (clears throat) I would have loved to ask him what it's like to make a movie about a war that he was starring in, and like, what kind of b- bizarre mental conflicts.

Charlie Sheen 30:51 Yeah. Did, did... He didn't get into any of that stuff with you guys?

Joe Rogan 30:53 Not really.

Charlie Sheen 30:54 No?

Joe Rogan 30:54 I mean, he talked a little bit about his experience in Vietnam, but I don't think we really talked about... Did we ever, we talk about m- the making of Platoon?

Narrator 31:00 Oh my God, man, no.

Joe Rogan 31:04 We got so heavy into the JFK assassination-

Charlie Sheen 31:06 I don't... I don't got it.

Joe Rogan 31:06 ... we hardly covered anything else. (coughs) Especially the last time he was on. The last time he was on was when they were doing that Showtime JFK document- It was a Showtime thing, right? Wasn't it? The sh-

Charlie Sheen 31:18 I think it was, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:19 Where there was a multi-part-

Charlie Sheen 31:21 Yeah, I saw it.

Joe Rogan 31:21 ... piece that he put together.

Charlie Sheen 31:22 I saw it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:23 His recall is insane. It's insane.

Charlie Sheen 31:27 It is. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:27 You have a conversation with him, he's pulling up dates, he's got no bo- I mean, how old is Oliver at this point in time?

Charlie Sheen 31:33 Um, upper 70s? I just turned 60, so if he was in-

Joe Rogan 31:39 78.

Charlie Sheen 31:39 He's 78. Okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 31:39 He's 78 years old, rock solid memory. I mean, rock solid.

Charlie Sheen 31:44 Wow.

Joe Rogan 31:44 The dude was just pulling up dates and names, and Allen Dulles did this-

Charlie Sheen 31:49 Wow.

Joe Rogan 31:49 And Harry A- Well, it was just like... The, the entire Warren Commission report, he's like citing different passages in it and tells... It's, it's bananas.

Charlie Sheen 31:57 That's deep. That's deep. Yeah. Wow. D- Has he landed on like what... Uh, can he, can he point to or, or is it... Is it, is it several factors?

Joe Rogan 32:05 More than anybody can point to, but there's a lot of people that wanted him dead. And for sure, there was a lot of fuckery going on with the Warren Commission, for sure.

Charlie Sheen 32:13 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 32:14 There's a lot of nonsense with the autopsies, there's a lot of nonsense with the single bullet going through both him and Connally, and leaving more bullet fragments in Connally's wrist than that magic bullet was missing, the one they found.

Charlie Sheen 32:28 Right, right, right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:29 It's like bullshit. The story is filled with bullshit.

Charlie Sheen 32:30 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:31 And no one really knew how much bullshit it was until, um, they had that video that they played of the Zapruder film on the Geraldo Rivera Show-

Charlie Sheen 32:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:40 ... when Dick Gregory came on and... Who was a comedian, which is pretty wild, came on and had the footage of the Kennedy assassination. Everybody sees Kennedy's head go back and to the left and you're like-

Charlie Sheen 32:50 Right. (slaps table)

Joe Rogan 32:50 ... "What? What happened there?"

Charlie Sheen 32:53 And you immediately apply just ph- s- c- simple common physics to it.

Joe Rogan 32:58 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 32:59 You know? Especially anybody who's, who's ever fired a weapon.

Joe Rogan 33:01 Also, it clearly looks like he got shot in the chest too, like when he grabs his neck.

Charlie Sheen 33:06 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 33:06 It clearly looks like he got shot right there.

Charlie Sheen 33:08 And there's always that talk about doing a trach.

Joe Rogan 33:10 Uh-huh.

Charlie Sheen 33:11 He did a trach on uh-

Joe Rogan 33:11 But, you know, there's two different autopsies.

Charlie Sheen 33:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:13 There's the autopsy in Dallas that says it's an entry wound, and there's the autopsy in Bethesda, Maryland that says it's a tracheotomy.

Charlie Sheen 33:19 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 33:20 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 33:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:20 Two different autopsies.

Charlie Sheen 33:21 Make up your mind. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:22 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 33:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:22 And it also looks like by the time they got to Bethesda, they kind of glued his head back together again, or at least put the pieces back to take a photo of it. It's like more was missing from what they were talking about in-

Charlie Sheen 33:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:34 ... Dallas than the Bethesda.

Charlie Sheen 33:36 That's the shot where the f-

Joe Rogan 33:37 Uh.

Charlie Sheen 33:37 ... gloved hand is like... looks like it's pointing, right?

Joe Rogan 33:39 Yes.

Charlie Sheen 33:39 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:40 There's a great book called Best Evidence by David Lifton, and he was an accountant, and they... Uh, he had some sort of an assignment involving the Warren Commission report, and so what he decided to do is read the entire thing. And so in the reading of the entire thing, he finds so many contradictions, so many things that don't make any sense, that he starts becoming obsessed. And then he finds out how many people who are witnesses to the assassination wind up dying mysteriously.

Charlie Sheen 34:05 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 34:06 It's off the charts.

Charlie Sheen 34:07 It's... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:08 Off the charts.

Charlie Sheen 34:09 Like 95% of them?

Joe Rogan 34:10 All those people that were hanging around, like a, a giant-

Charlie Sheen 34:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:13 ... ton of them-

Charlie Sheen 34:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:13 ... died in car accidents-

Charlie Sheen 34:15 Sure.

Joe Rogan 34:15 ... weird, fucking-

Charlie Sheen 34:16 Who, who was the guy in the train tower? A guy named Bowers, right?

Joe Rogan 34:21 Who is Bowers? What do you-

Charlie Sheen 34:22 He was the guy that saw Badge Man, he saw people behind the knoll-

Joe Rogan 34:26 Mm.

Charlie Sheen 34:26 ... he saw the exchange of the rifle, he saw all kinds-

Joe Rogan 34:28 Oh, did he die weird?

Charlie Sheen 34:28 ... of shit, he died, uh, I think he had a heart attack on a train track. And then-

Joe Rogan 34:35 Of course.

Charlie Sheen 34:35 ... also got hit by the train. I could be wrong, but it was one of those type of things, you know.

Joe Rogan 34:39 (laughs) But of course. Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 34:42 And then but, uh, wasn't it... What was the... Who, who was the guy, uh, who's standing at the... When the curb explodes, like near the underpass? Was that again, uh...

Joe Rogan 34:48 Oh yeah, that's the guy... That's the reason why they had, had to come up with the magic bullet theory.

Charlie Sheen 34:52 Was that Teague? No. What's his name? Um-

Joe Rogan 34:53 I don't remember. Did he die weird?

Charlie Sheen 34:55 P- Probably. Probably.

Joe Rogan 34:56 I don't know if he died weird, but he was hit with a ricochet.

Charlie Sheen 34:59 Right, right, right. And that-

Joe Rogan 34:59 And because they knew that the overpass... That's why they had a-

Charlie Sheen 35:01 That adds, that adds a bullet.

Joe Rogan 35:02 Yes.

Charlie Sheen 35:03 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:03 They had to add that and they go, "Okay, well, how do we fix this?"

Charlie Sheen 35:06 Right. What about-

Joe Rogan 35:06 And they... We said only one guy did it and it's only three shots, so how do we come up with a reasonable excuse? And they came up with the magic bullet.

Charlie Sheen 35:13 Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I... And I think the, uh, the, the architect of that was, uh, was Specter, no?

Joe Rogan 35:21 I think it was Arlen Specter.

Charlie Sheen 35:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:22 Yeah, I think it was his idea.

Charlie Sheen 35:23 Yeah.

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Joe Rogan 36:54 They just bullshitted people. But back then, you can get away with that.

Charlie Sheen 36:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:58 You know?

Charlie Sheen 36:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:58 It was pretty easy to just bullshit people.

Charlie Sheen 37:00 And you see all the additional cameras, like, babushka lady, for instance, right?

Joe Rogan 37:06 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 37:06 And- and all that stuff just confiscated-

Joe Rogan 37:09 Yep.

Charlie Sheen 37:09 ... and never ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:10 Well, they had the Zapruder film for a long time. I think Time Life had it, and then somehow or another, Dick Gregory got it.

Charlie Sheen 37:17 Was it ever released with missing frames? Wasn't there the jump cut when he goes behind the sign and then it jumps? 'Cause they ... didn't they take out the- the fatal head hit at some point-

Joe Rogan 37:30 Maybe.

Charlie Sheen 37:30 ... and then tried to sell that?

Joe Rogan 37:33 Perhaps. They probably did at one point in time. Um, but now, obviously, you can see the whole thing. And then there's also been AI enhanced. I don't know if you've seen the AI enhanced one. It's like, ugh.

Charlie Sheen 37:44 I haven't, no.

Joe Rogan 37:46 It's grisly.

Charlie Sheen 37:46 It's even more gruesome.

Joe Rogan 37:48 It's gruesome.

Charlie Sheen 37:48 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:48 I mean, I think he was shot from multiple angles simultaneously. That's what I think. I think he was shot both from the back and from the front. And I think Lee Harvey Oswald, if he wasn't involved, he certainly wasn't innocent. He, he was probably the guy that they were gonna frame it on-

Charlie Sheen 38:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:04 ... but I think he was in on the whole thing. And even, I think he killed a cop afterwards as well. The-

Charlie Sheen 38:08 Tippit? No, what's his name?

Joe Rogan 38:10 Yeah, Tippit.

Charlie Sheen 38:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:10 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 38:11 Yeah. Have you ever read that thing about, um ... 'cause, uh, Tippit's nickname back at the precinct was JFK?

Joe Rogan 38:18 Oh.

Charlie Sheen 38:18 Ever read this thing? (laughs) Then they show the side by side of how much they really look like each other.

Joe Rogan 38:23 Oh, really?

Charlie Sheen 38:23 So they're saying he was the body they used for the transfer when they flew with the empty coffin, you know, all that stuff about-

Joe Rogan 38:29 Oh, God.

Charlie Sheen 38:29 Yeah, it's ... I mean, it is so ... (laughs) and there's so many just, you know, warrens to travel down there-

Joe Rogan 38:36 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 38:37 ... and there's so many angles to explore. Um-

Joe Rogan 38:39 There's too many. There's so many rabbit holes to go down.

Charlie Sheen 38:42 We were introduced to it as kids 'cause Dad played both Kennedys. So we were seeing-

Joe Rogan 38:47 Right.

Charlie Sheen 38:47 ... documentaries at like, you know, I would've been 10 or 11, and Milia was 13 or 14. And so we've been involved in this thing for a lot longer than we should've been.

Joe Rogan 38:58 Wow.

Charlie Sheen 38:58 Yeah. We had access to this stuff. And so, um-

Joe Rogan 39:02 Well, it's just nuts that no one was brought to justice, and we know for sure more people were involved than Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald.

Charlie Sheen 39:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:09 There was more people involved-

Charlie Sheen 39:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:11 ... and no one was brought to justice, and they got away with it. We don't wanna think that they get away with things like killing the president, but they did.

Charlie Sheen 39:19 In broad daylight.

Joe Rogan 39:19 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 39:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:20 And blaming it on a lone gunman, a lone nut.

Charlie Sheen 39:23 Yeah. Yeah, who, who they already had a full description and, and, and raption and rundown and everything about-

Joe Rogan 39:30 Oh, they knew everything about him. They printed articles about him-

Charlie Sheen 39:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:32 ... before it was even over.

Charlie Sheen 39:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:33 And then the Jack Ruby thing, where Jack Ruby goes completely insane in jail after he's visited by Jolly West, who was the head of MKUltra-

Charlie Sheen 39:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:41 ... who was, like, routinely dosing people with acid.

Charlie Sheen 39:44 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:45 He cooked Jolly ... He got like ... Jolly West cooked Jack Ruby's brain in jail, uh, and just-

Charlie Sheen 39:51 Wow.

Joe Rogan 39:51 ... left him insane.

Charlie Sheen 39:53 He's the guy from, um ... what's the book that it's named?

Joe Rogan 39:56 Chaos.

Charlie Sheen 39:57 From Chaos, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:58 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 39:58 I actually read Chaos before it got all the attention.

Joe Rogan 40:01 Really?

Charlie Sheen 40:01 Yeah. Um, friend of mine gave it to me, and I was ... and I went, "All right, I'll, I'll read a couple pages." And I was like, "Oh."

Joe Rogan 40:08 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 40:08 "Oh, okay."

Joe Rogan 40:09 "This is good."

Charlie Sheen 40:09 "This is ... This is ..." Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:10 This is one of the best books.

Charlie Sheen 40:11 This is, this is different take.

Joe Rogan 40:12 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 40:13 But I'm curious how you felt about the documentary they did about it.

Joe Rogan 40:18 I didn't watch it.

Charlie Sheen 40:19 Okay. I-

Joe Rogan 40:20 I thought it was gonna be too quick. 90 minutes I didn't think was, like, enough time. It's only 90 minutes, right? Something like that.

Charlie Sheen 40:25 I thought it was the first episode.

Joe Rogan 40:28 Oh, you thought there was gonna be more.

Charlie Sheen 40:28 So I watched it sort of like a data gathering thing-

Joe Rogan 40:31 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 40:31 ... that you usually do with the first episode-

Joe Rogan 40:33 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 40:33 ... and kind of just seeing where the ... what the director's doing and what kind of stuff they're laying out early.

Joe Rogan 40:37 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 40:38 So, and then when it ended and I didn't see that second-

Joe Rogan 40:42 Right.

Charlie Sheen 40:42 ... episode with the timer, right?

Joe Rogan 40:44 Uh-huh.

Charlie Sheen 40:44 And I was, "Oh, that's ..." And I thought it was a complete, uh ... I th- thought it d- radically underserved the book.

Joe Rogan 40:51 Yeah, maybe they could try again (laughs) . They need to ... That needs to be like an eight-part, two-hour a piece series.

Charlie Sheen 40:59 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 41:00 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 41:00 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 41:00 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 41:01 We- we-

Joe Rogan 41:01 Because it's so nuts. The story is so nuts.

Charlie Sheen 41:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:05 Just the provable actual facts are so nuts-

Charlie Sheen 41:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:08 ... that very likely Charles Manson was a CIA asset, very likely they had groomed him when he was in prison and taught him mind control techniques-

Charlie Sheen 41:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:17 ... when people were high on acid, taught him how to be sober but pretend he's on acid, and how to interact with these people that are on acid and shape their mind and even get them to commit murder, all of which is fact.

Charlie Sheen 41:30 Yeah, no, it's- it's- it's- it's- it's ... I would say it's insane, but so much of it is, I don't wanna say provable, but-

Joe Rogan 41:38 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 41:38 ... but- but- but has enough supporting evidence to make a compelling case. And I love that the guy starts out just like a y- y- you know, just a kind of a normal celebrity assignment for Premier Magazine, right?

Joe Rogan 41:54 Yep.

Charlie Sheen 41:54 Yeah, I've been on that magazine.

Joe Rogan 41:56 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 41:56 I had that cover twice. (laughs) My story didn't wind up like that. Um-

Joe Rogan 42:00 I think the ... It was the story for a magazine, and it was just about the anniversary of the murders.

Charlie Sheen 42:04 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 42:05 That's it.

Charlie Sheen 42:06 That's what it was, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:07 You know, just give us a piece-

Charlie Sheen 42:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:08 ... you know, so people can go, "Wow, crazy, 25 years later, wow."

Charlie Sheen 42:12 Right. Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:12 And then he gets obsessed and he starts realizing, "Well, this guy was full of shit, and that guy was corrupted."

Charlie Sheen 42:17 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 42:17 "Oh my God, look at this and ... Hold on, who's Jolly West?"

Charlie Sheen 42:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:21 You know? Like, "What's MKUltra? This is real?"

Charlie Sheen 42:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 42:23 "Freedom of Information Act, get the documents. Oh my God, Operation Midnight Climax?"

Charlie Sheen 42:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:29 "The, the government was running whorehouses? They were running whorehouses and using two-way mirrors and dosing johns and filming them? And this has to do with Manson? Like, what, what the fuck was going on?"

Charlie Sheen 42:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:40 And then you realize that it was all a, a, a, a PSYOP to try to demonize the Peace, Love and Stop War movement and that what they really wanted to do was stop the antiwar movement and do something to curb the cultural change that was happening. And so their strategy was to turn hippies into murderers.

Charlie Sheen 43:04 ... it, it, it kinda worked, didn't it?

Joe Rogan 43:06 It kinda worked.

Charlie Sheen 43:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:07 It kinda worked.

Charlie Sheen 43:07 Yeah. I mean, it's a long way to go-

Joe Rogan 43:10 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 43:10 ... but it, uh... I think it had the effect they were looking for.

Joe Rogan 43:13 Imagine if they didn't do that? Like, what kind of cultural change would've taken place? Because if you think about what, what happened between 1950 and 1960, it's like the world becomes a different place in 10 years. Between 1960 and 1970s, like, "What? This world is crazy. The music is crazy, the culture's crazy, the movies are nuts. Everything is wild, it's very psychedelic." And then Nixon comes along in 1970, passes this sweeping Schedule 1 Act, makes all mushrooms and LSD, makes everything illegal, all to stop the civil war-... the civil, civil rights movement and the antiwar movement at the same time when they're doing this Manson stuff. So, it was a concerted effort across the board to stop the antiwar movement and to stop the civil rights movement. They were like, "We're losing control and power," and so... I mean, it was an evil thing to do, but you kinda gotta give 'em credit, 'cause it was pretty brilliant. Like, they, they actually pulled it off. You think of serial killer, you think of Manson. You think of The Family. "Oh, my God. These hippies are murderous."

Charlie Sheen 44:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:18 "They're a bunch of murderous freaks on drugs, cutting women's babies out of their stomachs and writing 'pig' on the wall." Like...

Charlie Sheen 44:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:26 This is nuts. And then, this-

Charlie Sheen 44:27 Yeah. And they, and they, and they brought The Beatles into it.

Joe Rogan 44:29 And our own goddamn government engineered it. They engineered... They stopped what was probably one of the most beautiful cultural shifts in this country's history.

Charlie Sheen 44:42 That would've organically still-

Joe Rogan 44:43 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 44:43 ... kept evolving into-

Joe Rogan 44:45 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 44:45 ... other things that would've, would've blossomed out of it, and...

Joe Rogan 44:47 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 44:48 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:48 Yeah, we probably would've rethought government. We probably would've, like, rethought the type of people that we want as leaders. We'd have rethought our involvement in foreign wars. There would've been no support for it. We would've rethought what psychedelic drugs can do for you versus, uh, the bad aspects of them. We would've rethought everything. We would've re-... we would've... The music would've been a lot better (laughs) . Music took a big dip.

Charlie Sheen 45:14 Yeah, it did.

Joe Rogan 45:15 Music took-

Narrator 45:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:15 ... a big dip after-

Narrator 45:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:16 ... they got rid of the drugs that were good and brought in the coke.

Charlie Sheen 45:20 But people do point to the death of the '60s, uh, occurred up at Cielo Drive.

Joe Rogan 45:25 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 45:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:27 It was effective.

Charlie Sheen 45:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:28 I mean, that, that completely demonized any peace, love, and, you know, any of that kind of movement, tho- those people became a real problem now because you're now connected to Manson.

Charlie Sheen 45:39 It was instantly zero tolerance.

Joe Rogan 45:40 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 45:41 (laughs) Like, overnight.

Joe Rogan 45:41 Kind of nuts.

Charlie Sheen 45:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:42 Kinda nuts that it, it... it was really all engineered by the government. You know, it's really... That in itself, in and of itself, is a, uh, terrible crime that they, they sort of engineered society to their benefit so that they could maintain control. And the way they did it is by getting a, uh, a horrible con who had been in and out of jail his whole life and teaching him how to run a cult (laughs) .

Charlie Sheen 46:09 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 46:11 A murderous cult (laughs) .

Charlie Sheen 46:12 And setting up at a free clinic-

Joe Rogan 46:14 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 46:14 ... in the Haight.

Joe Rogan 46:15 Where my wife's mom went.

Charlie Sheen 46:17 Oh.

Joe Rogan 46:18 Yes.

Charlie Sheen 46:18 Oh, so you're-

Joe Rogan 46:19 My wife's mom was a hippie.

Charlie Sheen 46:20 You have a connection to this?

Joe Rogan 46:21 Yes.

Charlie Sheen 46:22 (laughs) That's amazing (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 46:23 My wife's mom we-... she was a hippie in Haight-Ashbury, and she went-

Charlie Sheen 46:26 Was tre-...

Joe Rogan 46:26 ... to the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic.

Charlie Sheen 46:27 ... treated at that clinic?

Joe Rogan 46:28 Yes.

Charlie Sheen 46:29 Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:29 You know, that clinic didn't shut down until after Tom O'Neill's book came out?

Charlie Sheen 46:34 Oh.

Joe Rogan 46:34 That clinic would have been running for over 50 years.

Charlie Sheen 46:36 So, it ran till, like, 2022?

Joe Rogan 46:38 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 46:39 Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:39 Ra-... When did it close? It closed shortly after that book came out.

Charlie Sheen 46:42 So, I could've-

Joe Rogan 46:43 They're like, "We're good. Let's get-"

Charlie Sheen 46:44 I could've (laughs) ...

Joe Rogan 46:44 "... outta here." (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 46:46 ... I could've gone there while I was reading the book?

Joe Rogan 46:48 Yes. The CIA-

Charlie Sheen 46:49 Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:49 ... was running-

Charlie Sheen 46:49 Just to look, not for any treatment?

Joe Rogan 46:51 ... a fucking clinic.

Charlie Sheen 46:52 What a trip. Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:52 That is so nuts.

Charlie Sheen 46:54 Wow. Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:54 And that clinic also connected to Jolly West. That clinic also connected to all sorts of other marijuana experience. San Francisco is where they were doing Operation Midnight Climax. That's where they had a brothel (laughs) .

Charlie Sheen 47:08 (laughs)

Narrator 47:09 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 47:10 These are the people that are supposed to be like, "Protect and serve. Look out for your best interests."

Charlie Sheen 47:14 Right, right, right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:15 And these motherfuckers are creating Manson and, uh, completely shifting society and turning people into whatever the fuck we became in the '70s and the '80s.

Narrator 47:25 Well-

Joe Rogan 47:26 Yeah?

Narrator 47:26 ... the book came out June 25th, 2019.

Joe Rogan 47:29 Yeah.

Narrator 47:29 And the clinic closed July 2019.

Joe Rogan 47:33 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 47:35 (laughs)

Narrator 47:35 Seriously?

Joe Rogan 47:35 Yeah (laughs) . One month later.

Charlie Sheen 47:37 Oh, my gosh.

Joe Rogan 47:37 Like, "Fuck. We're... we got busted."

Charlie Sheen 47:40 That dude read the foreword and was like, "Guys, we got a problem."

Joe Rogan 47:43 Uh, yeah. They... That's probably how long it took them just to clear the building out-

Charlie Sheen 47:46 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 47:47 ... and try to figure out whether they're gonna kill Tom O'Neill (laughs) .

Charlie Sheen 47:49 Right, right. Ha- has he been on the show?

Joe Rogan 47:52 Yes, yeah.

Charlie Sheen 47:52 Oh, wow. Okay.

Joe Rogan 47:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's-

Charlie Sheen 47:54 What's he like? Is he-

Joe Rogan 47:54 He's great. He's-

Charlie Sheen 47:55 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 47:55 ... great. He's actually... My good friend Gregg Fitzsimmons, he was his neighbor in New York-

Charlie Sheen 48:01 Okay.

Joe Rogan 48:01 ... when he first started working on this, and then he became his neighbor also in Venice. Like, he's been his neighbor for, like, 20 years. So, Gregg's followed him from this entire journey, and Gregg had been telling me about it for years. I'm like, "When is your friend gonna get that fucking book done?" And then finally, he says... tells me the whole story, how it took so long-

Charlie Sheen 48:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:20 ... why he's like, "You gotta have him on. The book is insane."

Charlie Sheen 48:22 Wow.

Joe Rogan 48:22 I'm like, "Let's go."

Charlie Sheen 48:23 Wow. Wow.

Joe Rogan 48:24 So, we had him on, and, uh, it was incr-... Uh, first of all, I listened to the book first before I had him on. I listened to the audio version. I was like, "This is nuts!"

Charlie Sheen 48:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:32 "This is nuts!"

Charlie Sheen 48:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:33 "If this is all true, this is fucking insane." And it's all true. So, it's... They really did (laughs) engineer a, a murderous cult of, of hippies.

Charlie Sheen 48:46 And, and almost used, um, the clinic, um, as a, as a casting couch-

Joe Rogan 48:51 Yup.

Charlie Sheen 48:52 ... as, as an audition process for which girls they thought would be-

Joe Rogan 48:54 Yup.

Charlie Sheen 48:54 ... the most, um, moldable-

Joe Rogan 48:56 Most vulnerable. Yup.

Charlie Sheen 48:56 ... vulnerable. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:58 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 48:58 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 48:59 Crazy.

Charlie Sheen 48:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:00 Crazy that the CIA was doing that (laughs) .... it's just, no-

Charlie Sheen 49:05 I thought they were supposed to just operate on foreign soil.

Joe Rogan 49:08 I know, they were. But, you know-

Charlie Sheen 49:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:09 ... sometimes things get messy. But it's like, they-

Charlie Sheen 49:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:13 Y- you talk to, like, your average boomer who just watches, uh, cable news and l- reads the newspaper, th- they'll never believe this in a million years.

Charlie Sheen 49:20 And they'll hear us talking about it, thinking, "Come on, guys. Come on, come on."

Joe Rogan 49:23 Oh, "You're out of your mind."

Charlie Sheen 49:24 And, but they, but they, but they also will never read the book.

Joe Rogan 49:27 No. Never read the book, and then when things get proven, they never apologize. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 49:32 Imagine that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:33 Never apologize for your baseless conspiracy theories that all turned out to be true.

Charlie Sheen 49:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:37 'Cause, you know, conspiracies are fucking real, okay? This, this conspiracy theory pejorative that they really started foisting on the American public during the Kennedy assassination was for that very reason. They wanted to make it ridiculous for you to be in-

Charlie Sheen 49:52 Is that where the... That's when the term was coined.

Joe Rogan 49:53 That's when the term became popularized.

Charlie Sheen 49:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:55 Apparently the term existed before that. We, we, we researched this, right? Didn't we, uh, Google the original term of conspiracy theorist? It's quite a bit earlier, but it was never, like, a thing in the public zeitgeist.

Charlie Sheen 50:07 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 50:08 It became a thing during the Kennedy assassination because a lot of people were questioning it, 'cause it looked weird. You know, everything, like it d- even the people that hadn't seen the Zapruder film, everything just seemed off. It seemed off. And there was rumblings amongst people that were there, that there... The big one was the shots from the grassy knoll. Many people talked about gunshots.

Charlie Sheen 50:26 And that one photo where there's like-

Joe Rogan 50:27 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 50:28 ... 15 people pointing to the same spot.

Joe Rogan 50:30 Yep. And you see smoke-

Charlie Sheen 50:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:32 ... near where the, the bushes are.

Charlie Sheen 50:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:33 And it's not a good photo, but it's good enough-

Charlie Sheen 50:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:36 ... that you go, "Hmm." It's just too r- it was too uniform. You know, people were, they all were pointing. We heard shots from back there. There is a thing that does happen, um, especially if you look at Dealey Plaza. Have you ever driven through?

Charlie Sheen 50:51 I have, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:51 It's weird, right?

Charlie Sheen 50:52 I've, I've, I've walked the whole-

Joe Rogan 50:53 It's weird.

Charlie Sheen 50:54 ... crime scene, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:54 It's weird to be there.

Charlie Sheen 50:55 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:56 First of all, it's so little.

Charlie Sheen 50:57 It's, you can't believe how close everything is, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:59 Yeah, it's real little.

Charlie Sheen 51:00 And that they, but that they sent him into that tight turn-

Joe Rogan 51:03 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 51:03 ... and put him into that-

Joe Rogan 51:04 In a convertible.

Charlie Sheen 51:05 ... pickle jar, you know?

Joe Rogan 51:06 I mean, cu-

Charlie Sheen 51:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:07 Completely planned, which is-

Charlie Sheen 51:08 And you watch the motorcycle cops drop back.

Joe Rogan 51:11 Uh-huh.

Charlie Sheen 51:11 Just drop back.

Joe Rogan 51:12 Which is fine.

Charlie Sheen 51:13 And there's, there's something I read, um, did you ever read, um, The Men Who Killed Kennedy?

Joe Rogan 51:17 Mm-mm.

Charlie Sheen 51:18 I think it's, uh, Jim Marrs. Do you remember Jim Marrs?

Joe Rogan 51:20 Yes, I do, yeah.

Charlie Sheen 51:21 Yeah. Did you ever have him on?

Joe Rogan 51:22 No, I didn't.

Charlie Sheen 51:22 Oh, okay. He's, he's, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:23 Did he pass?

Charlie Sheen 51:24 I think so.

Joe Rogan 51:24 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 51:25 Yeah. He wrote Psi Spies, which, um, was in, all about remote viewing.

Joe Rogan 51:31 Oh.

Charlie Sheen 51:31 Yeah, yeah. He's a trip. He was deep into everything, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 51:34 I go back and forth on that remote viewing stuff.

Charlie Sheen 51:35 I do too, I do too. But, um, there's something in one of his books, um, and I've never been able to find it anywhere else. It's almost like this little detail was scrubbed from the internet, that the, the Morse code signal for victory, um, right after the fatal headshot went out over every Dallas police radio.

Joe Rogan 51:58 Whoa.

Charlie Sheen 51:58 Have you ever heard that?

Joe Rogan 52:00 No.

Charlie Sheen 52:00 Okay, I read that. Uh, this is-

Joe Rogan 52:02 Oh my God.

Charlie Sheen 52:03 ... disclaimer, that I'm not coming up with this. This is not (laughs) my original-

Joe Rogan 52:07 Geez.

Charlie Sheen 52:07 ... data. Um, but yeah, when I read that, that was, that was just, that was creepy.

Joe Rogan 52:13 That's crazy.

Charlie Sheen 52:14 And I don't know that he would've just added that for color. That's not something you just (laughs) throw out there.

Joe Rogan 52:21 Yeah, that's, that's a weird thing to add. Victory. Well, a lot of people hated Kennedy back then. It's hard for us to reconcile now today, because we think of him as, like, one of our greatest presidents. Of course because he got murdered. We always love them after they get shot.

Charlie Sheen 52:36 Sure.

Joe Rogan 52:36 But when he was alive, this, this was like half the country fucking hated him. And then there was the Bay of Pigs disaster, where we lost a lot of people because Kennedy didn't give them air support.

Charlie Sheen 52:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 52:49 He wasn't told about the invasion until, like, last moment-

Charlie Sheen 52:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 52:52 ... and air support was crucial-

Charlie Sheen 52:53 Sure.

Joe Rogan 52:54 ... to its success. He denied air support. A bunch of people died that weren't going to die.

Charlie Sheen 52:58 Right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:58 And so those guys on the ground... Uh, my friend Evan has a theory, my friend Evan who owns Black Rifle Coffee, who was a ranger himself.

Charlie Sheen 53:06 I met him. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:07 He's the best.

Charlie Sheen 53:08 Yeah, he's a good dude.

Joe Rogan 53:09 I love that dude. I love him to death.

Charlie Sheen 53:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:10 Um, but he said, like, "Those guys, those are hard-nosed killers. And if they think that they lost their brothers because this fucking piece of shit didn't give them the air support that they deserved, it was Kennedy's idea, and you tell him that you want to get that guy killed, like, 'Oh, fucking sign me up,' those guys would do it."

Charlie Sheen 53:29 Interesting, wow.

Joe Rogan 53:30 He's like, "Those would be the type of guys you would have do something like that, and they would probably tell you this would be a perfect place to do it."

Charlie Sheen 53:36 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 53:36 That tight little turn.

Charlie Sheen 53:37 Yeah, this is-

Joe Rogan 53:38 Anybody who says, by the way, 'cause conspiracies get, everybody gets binary on this one way or another, "I believe this" or, "I believe that." Anybody says that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't make that shot has never shot a rifle.

Charlie Sheen 53:49 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:49 You're full of shit. If it, the rifle's on, it was not that far. I'm not saying he could do it 100 times out of 100-

Charlie Sheen 53:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:56 ... but the possibility of him having that rifle ready, he's got a scope, he's gotta rest, the, the, the car comes into view, you roll the sight onto his back, you squeeze off a round, ra-kra, squeeze off a round, rat, and you get a headshot in there. That's 100% possible.

Charlie Sheen 54:13 Sure.

Joe Rogan 54:13 I just don't buy it.

Charlie Sheen 54:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:15 I don't buy it. I don't-

Charlie Sheen 54:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:16 I don't think he acted alone. If he did do it, he might've done it, he might've shot at him, he might've even hit him once. There was other people. There was... He was the patsy, and I think when he said, "I'm just a patsy"-

Charlie Sheen 54:27 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 54:27 ... the way he said it was not like a guy who murdered somebody. The way he said it was like, "I can't believe they set me up."

Charlie Sheen 54:33 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 54:34 Like...

Charlie Sheen 54:34 Exactly, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:35 So I think he was in on a bunch of it.

Charlie Sheen 54:37 Sure.

Joe Rogan 54:37 I just don't think he pulled the trigger.

Charlie Sheen 54:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:39 Or if he did pull the trigger, he was one of many people that pulled the trigger. That's what I think.

Charlie Sheen 54:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:45 But there was a lot of other people saying, "Oh, he couldn't have made those shots 'cause the rifle scope was off." D- that's... You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, because I could get your rifle scope to be off in five seconds. Okay, if your rifle scope's perfect 'cause it's zeroed in, bang, I drop it on the ground. Try it again.

Charlie Sheen 55:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:00 It'll be off by six inches at 200 yards.

Charlie Sheen 55:02 Misaligned. Misaligned, yeah, yeah, completely.

Joe Rogan 55:03 You're gonna move that thing, it's-

Charlie Sheen 55:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:05 ... they're fragile. They're-

Charlie Sheen 55:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:06 They require micro-adjustments with little Allen wrenches and hex keys and shit.

Charlie Sheen 55:11 Right, right, right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:11 And people, they don't torque 'em too much, you get it dialed in perfect.

Charlie Sheen 55:14 On a, on a $37 rifle. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:16 Yeah, on a rifle from 1963.

Charlie Sheen 55:19 From the back of a magazine ad, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:21 Yeah, of course that thing could get knocked off easy.

Charlie Sheen 55:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:24 Like almost instantly you could knock that thing off.

Charlie Sheen 55:26 There is a thing about the tree though.

Joe Rogan 55:28 What about the tree?

Charlie Sheen 55:29 That he had to shoot through a tree. Because what they've done in a lot of the reenactments, um, yeah, you know, supporting that he was the lone gunman-

Joe Rogan 55:36 Uh-huh.

Charlie Sheen 55:38 ... um, they, they did, uh, cut out part of the tree that Kennedy's behind.

Joe Rogan 55:42 They cut it out for the reenactment?

Charlie Sheen 55:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:44 Really?

Charlie Sheen 55:45 So, yeah, so he would have a clear field of view.

Joe Rogan 55:47 Hmm. But he had a clear view, field of view for at least a brief amount of time.

Charlie Sheen 55:51 Sure. Sure.

Joe Rogan 55:51 And that's all you need. That's all you need if you were good, and if you practiced. And I'm assuming that if you're gonna go shoot the president, you probably get used to firing off a few rounds-

Charlie Sheen 55:59 Through, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:59 ... to probably set up a target so you're not gonna just hope that your accuracy is still there from three years ago.

Charlie Sheen 56:05 On, on the day, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:05 Yeah, you're gonna practice.

Charlie Sheen 56:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:07 So, if you're gonna practice, you're gonna be even e- quicker at racking-

Charlie Sheen 56:10 Sure.

Joe Rogan 56:10 ... a new round.

Charlie Sheen 56:11 Sure.

Joe Rogan 56:12 He could've done it. I just don't buy it. It just, none of the evidence seems to point in that direction, including all the evidence they try to fabricate. Like the magic bullet one is nuts. Anybody who's ever shot anything with a bullet who looks at that and believes that went through two people and broke bones.

Charlie Sheen 56:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:29 That looks like it shot, got shot into a swimming pool.

Charlie Sheen 56:32 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:32 It doesn't look like it ever hit anything.

Charlie Sheen 56:34 No. And I, and I, and I've had people, like, you, you know, debate me and-

Joe Rogan 56:38 (sighs)

Charlie Sheen 56:38 ... and taking the side of the magic bullet.

Joe Rogan 56:40 They're not, they're, they're crazy.

Charlie Sheen 56:41 And like look me right in the eyes and do, and believe it, and I'm just like, "Okay, well, cool." This is where we have to just... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:50 They're out of their mind.

Charlie Sheen 56:51 Yeah, we have to walk away.

Joe Rogan 56:52 They're out of their mind. It, they don't know. I could show them. Like let's go, let's go take a bone from a cow.

Charlie Sheen 56:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:59 Let's set up a bone from a cow and w- I'll shoot it at 100 yards.

Charlie Sheen 57:03 One bone?

Joe Rogan 57:04 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 57:04 Just one?

Joe Rogan 57:04 Just one bone.

Charlie Sheen 57:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:05 And let's take a look at that bullet.

Charlie Sheen 57:06 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:08 It's not gonna look anything like that.

Charlie Sheen 57:09 No.

Joe Rogan 57:09 It's gonna be all fucked up. And there's the fragments. There's missing fragments from the bullet-

Charlie Sheen 57:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:15 ... they're in Connally's wrist that are more fragments that are missing from the actual bullet they're-

Charlie Sheen 57:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:21 ... attributing to the wound.

Charlie Sheen 57:22 You can't...

Joe Rogan 57:23 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 57:23 It's just, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:25 But they did it. That's what's nuts. We can sit here- You know about the- ... and talk about it until the cows come home.

Charlie Sheen 57:29 Do you know about the palm print, though?

Joe Rogan 57:30 No.

Charlie Sheen 57:30 Just, oh, that, um, that they linked the rifle to Oswald because of a palm print on the-

Joe Rogan 57:36 Oh, they got it on the-

Charlie Sheen 57:37 ... on the stock?

Joe Rogan 57:37 ... when, uh, they went to visit him in the morgue? Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 57:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:40 They didn't get it til after the autopsy. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 57:42 Yeah. Huh, it wasn't there, and then surprise.

Joe Rogan 57:46 How convenient.

Charlie Sheen 57:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:48 Yeah. And also, like, says who? Says who his fingerprint was on it? You could just say that back then, 1963.

Charlie Sheen 57:56 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 57:56 The government says, "We found a fingerprint." Uh, Oswald doesn't have a lawyer. No one's representing him. He's dead.

Charlie Sheen 58:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:01 You know, no one's gonna say, "My client is innocent." He's fucking dead, okay?

Charlie Sheen 58:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:05 Pin it on him, nobody gives a shit, and everybody just mourned the fact that the president was dead, and then, you know, all of a sudden, you got Lyndon Johnson full steam ahead with Vietnam War.

Charlie Sheen 58:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:21 It's nuts.

Charlie Sheen 58:21 Yeah, if you should look what, uh, uh, look at what happens after-

Joe Rogan 58:24 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 58:25 ... the major event, it like, it's, uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:27 Things got very different.

Charlie Sheen 58:28 That's when you, yeah. That's when you-

Joe Rogan 58:28 They got very different.

Charlie Sheen 58:29 That's when you really start to see, like-

Joe Rogan 58:31 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 58:31 ... okay, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:33 Oh, Kennedy was trying to be a real president, and they were like, "Oh, none of that."

Charlie Sheen 58:37 Yeah, because the Federal Reserve, it was Vietnam-

Joe Rogan 58:39 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 58:39 ... it was like all these-

Joe Rogan 58:40 Yep.

Charlie Sheen 58:40 ... big, like, really important things-

Joe Rogan 58:41 Big things-

Charlie Sheen 58:42 ... that were gonna-

Joe Rogan 58:42 ... he wanted to get us out of the... He wanted to kill the CIA. He wanted to do a lot of things.

Charlie Sheen 58:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:47 And they're like, "Not today, sir." And then that's the, the real argument is like we haven't really had a president since Kennedy. Everything after that has been the, the president's more of a, a speaker.

Charlie Sheen 58:59 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 59:00 And the-

Charlie Sheen 59:00 Interesting, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:01 ... the, the giant machine behind it continues to run exactly as it always has.

Charlie Sheen 59:07 Yeah, I mean, um, and, and, uh, just from where I sit, there's, there's not a lot you can do about it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:12 There's nothing you can do about it.

Charlie Sheen 59:13 Yeah. (laughs) So...

Joe Rogan 59:14 You could talk, but look, if they haven't done anything about the Kennedy assassination, you can't do shit.

Charlie Sheen 59:18 No.

Joe Rogan 59:19 You, you, you, you could put pressure on people, and you, um, you definitely can hurt their chances of getting reelected if people find out that they're very disappointed in you for-

Charlie Sheen 59:28 Sure.

Joe Rogan 59:29 ... not supporting this, or not telling us about that, or lying about this, or you were involved in that. Yeah, but other than that, like, there's not much, not much you can do.

Charlie Sheen 59:40 Yeah, that's why I don't really weigh in anymore. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:42 Good. (laughs) It's probably smart.

Charlie Sheen 59:44 So, you know, just it feels like... I don't know, it's wasted energy, you know?

Joe Rogan 59:48 It definitely is a lot of that.

Charlie Sheen 59:50 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:50 But it's also like a show, you know? You could watch the show. "Hey, have you s- heard the, watched the latest episode of The Epstein Files? Like, what's going on?"

Charlie Sheen 59:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:57 You know?

Charlie Sheen 59:58 Yeah. Turns into a-

Joe Rogan 59:58 It's kind of like a show.

Charlie Sheen 59:59 ... t- t- turns into a parlor game also.

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 1:00:01 You know? Right? That's, that's how my dad described the OJ case.

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 Oh.

Charlie Sheen 1:00:06 He said, "This is like the greatest parlor game ever."

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 Right.

Charlie Sheen 1:00:08 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 Boy, I remember watching that verdict on TV live in my apartment with this girl I was dating. She was a really sweet girl, and she couldn't believe that he was innocent.

Charlie Sheen 1:00:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 And she didn't understand it. She was so confused.

Charlie Sheen 1:00:23 Yeah, it didn't line up, did it? Didn't line up.

Joe Rogan 1:00:23 She was, she was like, "No. No. How?"

Charlie Sheen 1:00:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 She just kept, she kept like putting her hands over her face, "No. No."

Charlie Sheen 1:00:33 It, it, it completely torqued her, her whole reality.

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:00:37 Yeah. I was on a, on a mountaintop in Mexico doing a, uh, k- kind of a, uh, uh, you know, low-rent sci-fi film called The Arrival.

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 I love that movie.

Charlie Sheen 1:00:49 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:00:49 Don't say that was a low-rent movie.

Charlie Sheen 1:00:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 I love that movie.

Charlie Sheen 1:00:52 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 You know who turned me onto that movie? Dave Foley. Dave Foley, who's a good friend of mine from, uh, News Radio.

Charlie Sheen 1:00:57 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Uh, when we were on News Radio together, he fucking loved that movie.

Charlie Sheen 1:01:00 (laughs) That's funny.

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 He goes, "This is a so underrated sci-fi movie." I'm like, "Okay, cool."

Charlie Sheen 1:01:04 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:01:04 And I checked it out, and it was great.

Charlie Sheen 1:01:06 The one-

Joe Rogan 1:01:06 I loved it.

Charlie Sheen 1:01:06 Thank you. Thank you. It was, it was the first, um, film that actually incorporated a mashup of puppets and CGI at the same time.

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:01:17 Because it, uh, uh, at that point, it was either one or the other, and, and the other hadn't fully really arrived yet.

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 Right.

Charlie Sheen 1:01:23 You know? Yeah. Um, so that was kind of cool. But no, we were, um... I was so hoping for the day off to be back at the hotel 'cause everybody knew the night before that the, that the verdict was coming, right?

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 Ah.

Charlie Sheen 1:01:36 So we had to shoot this scene and, and...There was a, there was a prop man, and he had the only... This is '95, right? He had the only, uh, cellphone, and it had like half a bar. And it's i- and it's starting to rain, and he's got his ear, and his buddy's got his phone in LA up to the TV when they're about to read the verdict.

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 Wow.

Charlie Sheen 1:01:57 So, we all gather around the prop man, and we're watching him, and he's kinda leaning to keep the signal, to keep it, to kind of keep, you know, connected. And then we can see when he hears it. He s- he slumps a little bit, right? Takes the phone from his ear and slams it into the mud, and screams, "That motherfucker got away with murder."

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 Wow.

Charlie Sheen 1:02:23 His voice, like, echoed through the mist. It was gnarly.

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 That's a wild scene.

Charlie Sheen 1:02:27 That's how I learned about (laughs) the OJ verdict, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:30 Wow.

Charlie Sheen 1:02:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 Wow.

Charlie Sheen 1:02:34 Dave Anderson was there with me. He's a buddy I grew up with. He's in the book. He's a, he's a, he's a two-time Oscar-winning, uh, FX makeup artist, you know? And so, yeah, if you ever run across Dave "The Rave," uh, Anderson, ask him about (laughs) the OJ verdict.

Joe Rogan 1:02:47 That's a cra- just a crazy scene. Imagine a guy reacting like that.

Charlie Sheen 1:02:52 He was our only connection to it.

Joe Rogan 1:02:54 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:02:54 You know? And everybody was so invested in this thing.

Joe Rogan 1:02:57 Ugh.

Charlie Sheen 1:02:57 And, and it was really hard to go... And that was like... Do you remember time of day that might've happened? Kinda late morning, sort of? Or was it in the afternoon?

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 I don't remember. I don't remember at all.

Charlie Sheen 1:03:08 We still had a, a pretty sizable day to shoot.

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 Oh.

Charlie Sheen 1:03:11 And it was really hard to regain focus.

Joe Rogan 1:03:14 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:03:15 And feel like what we were doing still mattered.

Joe Rogan 1:03:18 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:03:18 Because, uh, there, there, there was a, uh, there, there was a giant ju- there was like a murmur in the universe at that point, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:03:25 Like something... It felt like something had been taken from us. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:03:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 Yeah, civility.

Charlie Sheen 1:03:32 Did you see the last, um, or the most recent, uh, OJ documentary?

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 No.

Charlie Sheen 1:03:38 It's, um, it's Murder, Mayhem, and Blood, I think. It's got three...

Joe Rogan 1:03:48 Murder, Mayhem, and Blood?

Charlie Sheen 1:03:49 Something.

Narrator 1:03:49 Jesus Christ.

Charlie Sheen 1:03:50 Murder, Mayhem, and Lies? Uh... Something... I'm probably way off with that title.

Narrator 1:03:58 American Manhunt?

Charlie Sheen 1:03:59 No. No, it's actually, it's, it's actually-

Joe Rogan 1:04:02 But it's not the latest OJ documentary?

Charlie Sheen 1:04:04 Well, I guess Manhunt would be the latest.

Narrator 1:04:06 Yeah, I can check.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:06 This, th- yeah, this is the one that, that was before that. An- and it's, it's broken down at the crime scene by, uh, two, like, expert veteran, uh, recreationists.

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 Hmm.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:19 Yeah. Y- yeah, it's, it's, it's a trip.

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 Ugh.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:22 Do you, do you, do you watch any OJ stuff-

Joe Rogan 1:04:24 No.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:25 ... that, that comes out? No?

Joe Rogan 1:04:25 No, I try not to. Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:28 Because it's just-

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 It's just too weird.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:30 I, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:04:31 It's just I don't-

Charlie Sheen 1:04:31 Do you, do you think there was something else there? Or...

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 No.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:33 No?

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 I think he killed his wife.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:35 And he killed Ron Goldman, and he got away with it.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:39 And it's just nuts. It's just... You know, it's weird, you watch him on, like, Naked Gun, and you're like, "That guy?"

Charlie Sheen 1:04:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 "That guy murdered his wife with a knife?" Like, what?

Charlie Sheen 1:04:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 And then he got away with it, and then he's just golfing.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:50 Yeah, it was a-

Joe Rogan 1:04:51 Very strange.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:51 ... follow-up part that didn't really support-

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:04:53 ... anything about what he had claimed. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:56 You remember when he was a rapper?

Charlie Sheen 1:04:58 Um, hmm...

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 You remember The Juice is Loose? You remember that?

Charlie Sheen 1:05:01 Oh, gosh. I think, I think I just wheeled-

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:05:03 I wheeled that one out of my mind.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 He had like a, like a, like a King's robe on, and like, there's a bunch of hot ladies around him.

Charlie Sheen 1:05:11 Oh, okay. Okay, it's coming back to me. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:12 Yeah, he made a rap song.

Charlie Sheen 1:05:13 Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:05:15 Yeah, he was like embracing the heel role-

Charlie Sheen 1:05:17 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:05:17 ... at one point in time after the, the guilty verdict, or the not guilty verdict.

Charlie Sheen 1:05:22 Right, right, right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:23 And so, he, he got into, like, rap. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 1:05:29 (laughs) But I mean, probably just, just for, just, just for monetary grab, right?

Joe Rogan 1:05:32 I would imagine.

Charlie Sheen 1:05:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 Let me pu- play it. Play The Juice is Loose.

Narrator 1:05:36 No.

Joe Rogan 1:05:36 It's so bad.

Charlie Sheen 1:05:37 Oh, my God. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:38 It's, it's... Is it off of YouTube?

Narrator 1:05:40 No, it's at-

Joe Rogan 1:05:40 That would be hilarious.

Narrator 1:05:41 It's part... He had a t- it was part of a TV show. He had... I saw another clip recently.

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 Oh, that's right.

Narrator 1:05:45 He has like a prank show he was trying to prank people. It was like probably pre-, uh, uh...

Joe Rogan 1:05:51 Jackass?

Narrator 1:05:52 Uh, yeah, but I'm trying to think of the thing they had on MTV that they did with all the celebrities. Couldn't think of him-

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 Oh, Punk'd, Punk'd.

Narrator 1:05:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:05:58 Got it.

Joe Rogan 1:05:59 OJ was doing that?

Narrator 1:06:00 No, but he was p-

Joe Rogan 1:06:01 Everybody would just run away screaming.

Narrator 1:06:02 He was pranking people.

Charlie Sheen 1:06:02 It's the murderer.

Narrator 1:06:02 Yeah, he did it to a lady. He, like, walked up to her hotel room with a knife.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Oh, my God. That was one of his scenes?

Narrator 1:06:08 Yeah (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 Jesus Christ.

Narrator 1:06:11 You Got Juiced is what it was called.

Joe Rogan 1:06:12 You Got Juiced.

Charlie Sheen 1:06:13 You Got Juiced (laughs) , damn.

Narrator 1:06:15 But I don't... I'm trying to find this. Also, the music video had a bunch of, uh, that was aired-

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 Naked ladies?

Narrator 1:06:20 Yeah, it was aired on like, uh, Pay-Per-View. Whatever that stuff was.

Charlie Sheen 1:06:23 Oh.

Narrator 1:06:23 It was like The Spice Channel or something like that.

Charlie Sheen 1:06:25 Huh.

Joe Rogan 1:06:25 Spi- remember The Spice Channel?

Narrator 1:06:27 Spice (laughs) , yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 Hmm. Yeah, uh, but that whole thing, going from that verdict to trying, going back to work.

Narrator 1:06:37 There's a picture. It's not, it's not the video, but it's the picture.

Charlie Sheen 1:06:39 Oh, my.

Joe Rogan 1:06:40 Yeah. Look at that.

Narrator 1:06:40 Juiced the Musical.

Charlie Sheen 1:06:42 Look at that.

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 I remember one time we were, uh, filming NewsRadio. It was in the middle of that North Hollywood shootout. Do you remember that?

Charlie Sheen 1:06:48 I do, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:48 And we were watching it live on TV-

Charlie Sheen 1:06:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:51 ... while trying to do a sitcom, and we were like, "We probably should take some time off here. There's a fucking war going on in the middle of North Hollywood."

Charlie Sheen 1:06:58 Yeah, wow. Yeah, that was-

Joe Rogan 1:06:59 I think that involved a lot of cocaine and steroids, too.

Charlie Sheen 1:07:03 Uh, y- from the, from the brothers.

Joe Rogan 1:07:04 From the, from the guys.

Charlie Sheen 1:07:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:05 I know they were definitely on steroids.

Charlie Sheen 1:07:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:07 But I think they were, there was probably some-

Charlie Sheen 1:07:09 Or meth.

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 Something like that.

Charlie Sheen 1:07:11 Yeah. I thi- I think meth would've kept them there-

Joe Rogan 1:07:13 Some sort of upper. Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:07:13 ... for a lo- a lot longer, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:15 For people-

Charlie Sheen 1:07:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:15 ... who don't know the story, these guys, um... Did they h- they rob a bank? Is that what they did?

Charlie Sheen 1:07:20 Yeah, but waited.

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:07:21 Like, could've driven away. Could have left with all the, all, all, all the dough.

Joe Rogan 1:07:26 And they decided to get in a shootout with the cops.

Charlie Sheen 1:07:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 And killed cops, right?

Charlie Sheen 1:07:31 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:07:32 I mean, and they got killed. A bunch of cops got hit, and the cops were like horribly outgunned.

Charlie Sheen 1:07:37 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:37 'Cause the cops had their 9 millimeter pistols, and these guys have fucking machine guns and bulletproof vests, and...

Charlie Sheen 1:07:42 Yeah.... Kevlar helmets, and they had face masks.

Joe Rogan 1:07:45 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:07:46 Yeah. Now, do you support that when the dude finally kills himself, that it was a, a simultaneous sniper shot at the same time?

Joe Rogan 1:07:55 I never even looked into that. Is that one of the conspiracies?

Charlie Sheen 1:07:57 That's one of the- well, it's just, it's... Yeah, that's one thing that they claim.

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 That he got shot and shot himself at the exact same time?

Charlie Sheen 1:08:05 At the exact same time.

Joe Rogan 1:08:07 It's possible.

Charlie Sheen 1:08:07 But why would they... Like, what does that serve? Like, what does that-

Joe Rogan 1:08:11 Maybe they were already gonna shoot him, and he shot himself, and they didn't think he was gonna shoot himself, and they pulled the trigger right when he did.

Charlie Sheen 1:08:18 Got it.

Joe Rogan 1:08:19 That's what I would guess, if that's the case.

Charlie Sheen 1:08:20 But it's not like they have to be let off the hook, because at that point, that dude has to be put down.

Joe Rogan 1:08:24 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:08:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:25 I mean, one of the guys had already been shot in the... He was shot in the leg, and they didn't get him any medical help. They knew he was gonna bleed out. You know, I think, I think that was the case. I think he got shot in his femoral artery.

Narrator 1:08:36 Yeah, the first, the first guy it says he died by s- this is from Wikipedia. He died by suicide via gunshot to the head from his handgun, simultaneously being hit by rifle fire from LAPD officers with one round striking and severing his spine.

Joe Rogan 1:08:48 Whoa.

Charlie Sheen 1:08:50 Hmm.

Narrator 1:08:50 And the other guy got shot 20, over 29 times, and died from blood loss.

Joe Rogan 1:08:54 Wow.

Charlie Sheen 1:08:56 But s- I mean, what are the odds that the-

Joe Rogan 1:08:58 Crazy.

Charlie Sheen 1:08:59 ... that the thing with the... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:00 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:09:00 It's kinda like-

Joe Rogan 1:09:01 Well, sounds like there were... A lot of bullets were flying in his direction.

Narrator 1:09:05 There were 2,000 rounds were found.

Joe Rogan 1:09:08 Jesus Christ. (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 1:09:09 2000.

Narrator 1:09:10 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 1:09:10 Like, what does that weigh?

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 (laughs)

Narrator 1:09:12 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 1:09:12 Like, if you're carting that around, and you've got a whole duffle of cash.

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 Yeah, you must have a heavy trunk.

Charlie Sheen 1:09:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:19 Yeah, that is bananas.

Narrator 1:09:20 Well, ha- half was the police, but-

Joe Rogan 1:09:22 Wow.

Narrator 1:09:23 ... still.

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 Imagine being in that neig- that neighborhood, they just-

Narrator 1:09:28 I think that's where I'd move my family.

Joe Rogan 1:09:29 2,000 rounds are flying in both directions.

Charlie Sheen 1:09:32 Well, the cops, like, went to a gun store, right? Didn't they?

Joe Rogan 1:09:35 I think they did.

Charlie Sheen 1:09:36 Like, right when it started, and they were like-

Joe Rogan 1:09:37 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:09:37 ... "Whatever you got." You know, "Give us-"

Joe Rogan 1:09:39 Which is crazy.

Charlie Sheen 1:09:39 "... your, your biggest bore rifle." You know, "Whatever you got."

Narrator 1:09:42 (laughs)

Charlie Sheen 1:09:42 "We'll take it." Yeah. "How much ammo you got?"

Joe Rogan 1:09:45 I mean, how long did that go on for?

Narrator 1:09:48 Uh, about an hour.

Charlie Sheen 1:09:49 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:09:50 Pshh.

Narrator 1:09:51 They had homemade body armor. SWAT team wasn't ready for that. They had to commandeer an armored vehicle to evacuate wounded people.

Joe Rogan 1:09:58 Wow.

Narrator 1:09:59 Uh, yeah, then they s- uh, that's, that's kind of sparked the debate for police to get more power.

Joe Rogan 1:10:04 Jeez.

Charlie Sheen 1:10:06 Yeah, that was a, that was kind of a, that was a turning point moment.

Joe Rogan 1:10:08 Now if you're a real conspiracy theorist, then you say, "Oh, MKUltra tricked those guys into doing that so then the cops can get better guns."

Charlie Sheen 1:10:15 Right, so then the cops could get militarized and yeah, yeah, yeah.

Narrator 1:10:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:17 Well, this is the problem with conspiracies. People tr- uh, l- y- uh, attribute them to everything.

Charlie Sheen 1:10:22 Right, every-

Joe Rogan 1:10:23 And they really get down the rabbit hole. Everything's a conspiracy.

Charlie Sheen 1:10:25 Yeah, yeah. But then when they do that, they kind of, um, they, they, they, they, uh, um, harm the credibility of the ones that, that can really be, you know, considered for, for y- y- you know, for, for how we know them to be.

Joe Rogan 1:10:44 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:10:44 You know, after-

Joe Rogan 1:10:44 No doubt.

Charlie Sheen 1:10:44 ... after all the extensive research.

Joe Rogan 1:10:46 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:10:47 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:10:47 No doubt. Yeah, there's real ones. But I think that's also part of the, th- reason why, you know, some really silly conspiracy theories get pushed. I think they get pushed by bots, and I think they get pushed by paid accounts.

Charlie Sheen 1:11:00 To, to water down the real ones.

Joe Rogan 1:11:02 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:11:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:02 To make, make them look stupid, and they'll, like, attach them, attach a really stupid conspiracy to one that's legitimate.

Charlie Sheen 1:11:08 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:08 And then it discredits the legitimate one.

Charlie Sheen 1:11:10 Yeah. It's almost like, you know, not to introduce this, but just from afar, it's almost like the, a lot of the QAnon stuff kind of had that-

Joe Rogan 1:11:19 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 1:11:19 ... effect, just-

Joe Rogan 1:11:20 Yeah.

Charlie Sheen 1:11:21 ... you know. Um, I didn't dig deep into that and don't... You know, and only know just the, just the basic y- y- you know, talking points about it.

Joe Rogan 1:11:29 Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sheen 1:11:30 But, um, but one thing I did see that was, felt like a, a, a constant was that there was always, uh, d- anytime they'd mention something that was just completely screwy, it was followed up with the ones that, that, that we believe to be real.

Joe Rogan 1:11:46 Right.

Charlie Sheen 1:11:46 You know, the, they just kind of just begin to just, uh, kind of just put it all in the same...

Joe Rogan 1:11:52 Yeah, a stew of good stuff and bullshit.

Charlie Sheen 1:11:54 ... yeah, yeah, stew. Exactly, yeah. And just, just stirred that cauldron, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:11:57 Yeah. Yeah, that's a very convenient way to bury truth. The QAnon documentary on HBO was great. Uh, Into the Fire, that what it's called?

Narrator 1:12:06 Yeah, into s-

Charlie Sheen 1:12:09 I didn't, I didn't-

Narrator 1:12:10 Into something.

Charlie Sheen 1:12:10 ... see it.

Narrator 1:12:11 Into the Storm.

Joe Rogan 1:12:12 Into the Storm.

Charlie Sheen 1:12:12 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:12:13 It's really good.

Charlie Sheen 1:12:14 Is it? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:14 It's a multi-part thing on all the people that were involved in 4Chan and the creation of QAnon.

Charlie Sheen 1:12:21 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:12:21 Who they think the original guy was, and they think another guy took it over after