Joe Rogan Experience #2379 - Matthew McConaughey

Narrator 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Good bro. Cheers, cheers, sir.

Matthew McConaughey 0:14 Thanks. Good to see you on your home turf there.

Joe Rogan 0:16 My man. Yeah. Hey. You, um, you're a man of many talents, my friend. Tell me about this book.

Matthew McConaughey 0:27 Poems and Prayers, yeah. Um, so I've been kinda writing-

Joe Rogan 0:33 Try to keep this, like, these are a little bit directional. How's that? Yeah, perfect.

Matthew McConaughey 0:37 I've been kind of, I've been writing poems and prayers down for, since I was like 18. Um, and then this last, I don't know, couple years, I started looking around at life and the facts and evidence and people, and I was, like, not finding the amount of things or people to believe in that I was wanting to. And I was starting to have doubt to myself as well, and I started to see myself slip into a little bit of cynicism.

Joe Rogan 1:06 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07 Which I promised myself that's, that, no, that's a, that's a living man's disease. Don't go there.

Joe Rogan 1:13 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:13 You go from innocence to s- to, to naivete to skepticism, but let's stop there at skepticism.

Joe Rogan 1:19 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:20 And I kinda got scared and a little pissed off at myself and was like, "Well wait a minute. I'm not ready to give up. I'm not ready to wave the, wave the white flag and let myself off for certain things I was starting to even wanna let myself off on. You know? Or other people." And, um, I said, "All right, poems and prayers, those are ideals, those are pursuits. You know? That's going to the dream and saying let's go to the... Let's, let's, let's look at the dream and see if we can still believe in making that a reality."

Joe Rogan 1:49 Aspirational.

Matthew McConaughey 1:50 Instead of looking at reality and saying, "How do you turn that into a dream?" Which is what I usually do. I'm like art emulates life, man, not the other way around. But I flipped the script a little bit here and said, "No, no, let's, let's dive into the dreams and belief." Man, it's, I think it's in short supply. It was getting, it was, it, my, my tank was getting low on belief. And that's just in-

Joe Rogan 2:08 Well, what was bothering you so much? What specifically?

Matthew McConaughey 2:11 Maybe it's, man, maybe it's turning 50, something like that? Maybe it's that, where I start to project, uh, you know, what am I... What's the next half?

Joe Rogan 2:20 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 2:21 I don't know. Maybe subconsciously it was. I think, uh, I look around and there's a lot fewer leaders that I'm like, "Hey, son."

Joe Rogan 2:32 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 2:33 "I wanna grow up like that."

Joe Rogan 2:34 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 2:34 I look around, I see people not trusting. I see peop- I, I, I, I, I see people that aren't embarrassed for doing something shitty.

Joe Rogan 2:45 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 2:46 Uh, I see people that sleep just fine. I don't, I found myself starting to go, "Oh, I, I can sleep fine, too." That's that part where it was like uh-uh. You can't, you, don't, you don't, don't sleep fine if you half-ass that situation, or if you did that person wrong and can get away with it.

Joe Rogan 3:01 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 3:02 Um, and so, so trust, uh, what a, where do we look to for belief? Me, I believe in God, but it doesn't have to be that. What's your, your better self, your transcendent self, your kids, their future, um, there's all kinds of things to believe in.

Joe Rogan 3:18 Humanity itself.

Matthew McConaughey 3:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:20 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 3:20 Believing in it, our potential.

Joe Rogan 3:23 Which is, we understand that humans can be so amazing at times, and all my favorite people are humans. (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 3:30 Hey. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:30 Like all, all the... I, I love people, I love being around them, but yet simultaneously, people can be fucking horrific. They're terrible at the same time. Like, and you, uh, the problem today is that you're inundated by these people that are terrible. You're, your, your phone is filled with these-

Matthew McConaughey 3:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:51 ... newsfeeds of people doing terrible things, and I don't think we're supposed to have access to eight billion people's bad stories.

Matthew McConaughey 4:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:00 I don't think that's normal, and I think that also changes your own perception of the world and invites cynicism and invites-

Matthew McConaughey 4:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:10 ... like, like what is the point in being a good person? What is the point of being friendly and nice when the world's gone mad?

Matthew McConaughey 4:15 What is the consequences, man?

Joe Rogan 4:16 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 4:16 None of it, if I can shortcut it and-

Joe Rogan 4:19 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 4:19 ... lie, cheat, and steal to get the same thing, and I'm in a world that rewards that.

Joe Rogan 4:23 Especially CEOs. I mean, if you're working for some giant corporation, if you're trying to make your shareholders billions of dollars, like, yeah, you kinda have to be a psycho, and those are the people that a lot of people look up to.

Matthew McConaughey 4:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:37 It's real.

Matthew McConaughey 4:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:38 What's, uh, the way we're structured in this world, with that inundation of information, most of it bad, with people being rewarded for being shitty people, with like... It's hard. It's hard-

Matthew McConaughey 4:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:49 ... to, to, to still be positive and be happy.

Matthew McConaughey 4:52 I'm not ready to give up on believing that both can be true.

Joe Rogan 4:57 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 4:57 That hey, man, hardcore capitalists, go for it, more, more, more success, get it. But you can also, how do you have profit with your success? I see a lot of people that are successful-

Joe Rogan 5:08 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 5:08 ... but lack profit, meaning value of their success.

Joe Rogan 5:11 Right, for your own life.

Matthew McConaughey 5:12 I see a lot of unhappy billionaires.

Joe Rogan 5:14 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 5:14 I know 'em.

Joe Rogan 5:14 Right. I know 'em, too. That's a bad thing, right?

Matthew McConaughey 5:17 And-

Joe Rogan 5:17 Like, that's the thing that you think, "Oh, if you, you hit that stage of the game, there's no way you can be unhappy." You know, they're some of the most unhappy people.

Matthew McConaughey 5:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:25 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 5:25 And that math, that math is inverted.

Joe Rogan 5:27 Uh-huh.

Matthew McConaughey 5:27 It shouldn't be that way.

Joe Rogan 5:28 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 5:28 If that's what we're pursuing, and I got nothing against it.

Joe Rogan 5:31 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 5:31 I'm actually for it.

Joe Rogan 5:32 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 5:32 But... And-

Joe Rogan 5:34 Yeah, if that's what we're pursuing, that, that's not how it's supposed to end. (laughs) It's supposed to be-

Matthew McConaughey 5:38 No.

Joe Rogan 5:38 ... that's the happiest guy alive.

Matthew McConaughey 5:40 Right?

Joe Rogan 5:40 You know? Yeah. It's not real, you know, and you don't notice it. It's just numbers, you know? You notice it by how big your house is, great. Still just your house.You notice it by-

Matthew McConaughey 5:51 And then you're getting lost in that son of a bitch, and you wish the ceilings were a little bit lower because-

Joe Rogan 5:55 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 5:55 ... shit's all too damn big. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:56 And it's not cozy at all.

Matthew McConaughey 5:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:58 You're like, "This ain't cozy. This is weird."

Matthew McConaughey 6:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:00 "This fucking castle."

Matthew McConaughey 6:01 I've done it. I've done it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:04 Yeah. Yeah. (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 6:04 Oh, that picture. Shit, that's the first time I've noticed that painting in two years.

Joe Rogan 6:08 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 6:09 Either I don't like it or I got it in the wrong place. Yeah, it's in the fourth bedroom down the second hallway and I'm never down here. Or that chair, that used to be my favorite chair. I hadn't sat in it-

Joe Rogan 6:18 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 6:18 ... in two years. Yeah, because you got it off down in the fifth bedroom-

Joe Rogan 6:22 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 6:23 ... where no, where you never go.

Joe Rogan 6:25 When I see like movies where a dude's living in a log cabin I'm like, (sighs) "I wanna do that."

Matthew McConaughey 6:30 Dude. Right?

Joe Rogan 6:31 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 6:31 The lack of options.

Joe Rogan 6:32 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 6:33 The lack of options is relaxing.

Joe Rogan 6:35 Well, there's something to that. Like-

Matthew McConaughey 6:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:36 ... a frying pan, (laughs) a grill.

Matthew McConaughey 6:39 Yeah. Dude, that's what I loved about living in the Airstream for four years.

Joe Rogan 6:41 Yeah. Right.

Matthew McConaughey 6:41 You only have room for one of everything. So I would get my best, the best pan-

Joe Rogan 6:47 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 6:47 ... the best jam box, the best... the, the be- the best pair of shorts, the best sheets. And you can only have one of each, 'cause you get two it's cluttered.

Joe Rogan 6:54 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 6:54 But there weren't options.

Joe Rogan 6:56 I forgot you did that, you did that for four years.

Matthew McConaughey 6:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:58 That's crazy. That's so smart though. It's such a g-... I watch these videos on people that live in like, uh, trailers, like, like a truck, you know, or like a camper-

Matthew McConaughey 7:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:08 ... that they convert to living in and they travel around the country.

Matthew McConaughey 7:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:12 I'm obsessed with these videos. I watch these guys go to like these horrendous places. This guy, one guy's a truck camper and he goes up into like d-... way into Alaska, like way, way, way above the Arctic Circle, like way up there in this fucking truck with a house on the back of it. He's in Canada and like deep into Alberta and it's snowstorms and it's... There's something oddly comforting about watching a man cook-

Matthew McConaughey 7:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:39 ... in this tiny little space that he has that's essentially attached to the back of a big diesel pickup truck.

Matthew McConaughey 7:46 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:47 And he lives in it.

Matthew McConaughey 7:47 Yeah. Well, he's got decreased amount of options, that's for sure and he-

Joe Rogan 7:51 Yeah, he has like little shelves.

Matthew McConaughey 7:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:53 "This is where I keep my silverware."

Matthew McConaughey 7:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:55 "This is where I go..."

Matthew McConaughey 7:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:56 "Here's my frying pan." He's got one frying pan.

Matthew McConaughey 7:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take care of that one frying pan.

Joe Rogan 8:00 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 8:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:01 And you, I'm watching this guy cook his supper and I'm like, "This is appealing to me for some reason." Like, why is it so appealing?

Matthew McConaughey 8:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:07 Because his world is all contained, that little-

Matthew McConaughey 8:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:09 And the whole world outside is just frozen wasteland-

Matthew McConaughey 8:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:12 ... and fucking snow coming sideways and this dude's just chilling, making eggs.

Matthew McConaughey 8:16 Ha. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:17 And like there's something.

Matthew McConaughey 8:18 In the honey hole.

Joe Rogan 8:19 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 8:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:19 Something cool about watching someone achieve like a, like a, a den-

Matthew McConaughey 8:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:25 ... in the back of a truck.

Matthew McConaughey 8:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:26 And it's the middle of the winter and he's comfortable. He's watching movies on his iPad.

Matthew McConaughey 8:30 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 8:30 I'm like, "This is great."

Matthew McConaughey 8:32 I, the times I've gone off on my own, um, I've always tr-... my, my goals have always been, "Okay, stay here until you..." If it was, it's Mali or Peru or, or even in the Airstream those times, or going out to Marfa to go write, on my own. I go, "All right, stay here long enough to believe this could be your existence, McConaughey. You could live here forever."

Joe Rogan 8:54 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 8:54 Then it's okay to come back home.

Joe Rogan 8:56 Oh.

Matthew McConaughey 8:57 If I get to that point where I'm going, "I could do this."

Joe Rogan 8:59 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 8:59 "This could be me."

Joe Rogan 9:00 You lock it in.

Matthew McConaughey 9:01 Then I've given it the justice, right?

Joe Rogan 9:03 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 9:03 To then go, come home, 'cause I sure do... Silk sheets on my bed at home sure do feel silkier after those times in that log cabin.

Joe Rogan 9:12 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 9:13 You know? I like coming back and reengaging.

Joe Rogan 9:15 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 9:16 You know? Spending time over in Hawaii coming back over to the mainland was great to get the stimulus again. Ah, in the game. You feel the teeth.

Joe Rogan 9:25 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 9:25 I wanted that, you know?

Joe Rogan 9:28 Yeah. Yeah, resets are real. They're important. You can get trapped in momentum, you know? You could really get trapped in the momentum of whatever you're doing in your life to the point where y- y- you lose yourself in just the sheer gravity-

Matthew McConaughey 9:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:42 ... of everything that you're doing and you forget how to like just-

Matthew McConaughey 9:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:47 ... s- be just a person.

Matthew McConaughey 9:48 And what happens when you're doing it well but you don't feel it?

Joe Rogan 9:52 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 9:52 And you're on autopilot and you're knocking it... Everyone's telling you're knocking it out of the park.

Joe Rogan 9:55 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 9:56 But you're going, "F-... The good, 'cause I didn't, I didn't feel it."

Joe Rogan 9:59 (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 9:59 "I'm not having any real experience here, man," man. (laughs) They're going, "Don't change a thing." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 10:04 (sighs) You know, that's a real problem with stand-up comedy. When you do it right, you're like a passenger. Like it takes forever to put together an act, but when, when it comes together, when you're really like locked in, when you're really on it, is like you're like a passenger. You're watching it happen and you-

Matthew McConaughey 10:23 You're objectively s- watch- while, while you're doing it.

Joe Rogan 10:25 Yeah. It's like you know how to do it so you know what to do and you're locked into the material so you're like a part of the material, but you're not there anymore.

Matthew McConaughey 10:34 Huh.

Joe Rogan 10:34 You're like a passenger. You're not saying, "Now I'm gonna pick this up."

Matthew McConaughey 10:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:38 "And now I'm gonna give them a pause. And now..." Nope. You're not there but you're, but it's really locked in.

Matthew McConaughey 10:42 Wait, are you enjoying watching yourself? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:44 No, you don't enjoy it. I mean, it's fun, don't get me wrong, but you're not thinking about the fact that you're enjoying it at all. You're just locked in.

Matthew McConaughey 10:53 Okay.

Joe Rogan 10:53 All you're doing is just doing it. But it's weird, you're like a passenger.

Matthew McConaughey 10:57 Huh.

Joe Rogan 10:57 And I think there's something in l-... There's something about that where we, we get trapped by not being a passenger. You get trapped by wanting to like think of yourself all the time.

Matthew McConaughey 11:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 11:12 And like things that you can do that take you out of that. Things that you can do that like you're just locked into this thing. Uh, they're a little like mini vacations for-

Matthew McConaughey 11:23 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:23 ... whatever pattern you're stuck in.

Matthew McConaughey 11:26 Mini vacations.

Joe Rogan 11:28 Yeah, like golf or anything.

Matthew McConaughey 11:31 I go back... I didn't act in f- on front of the camera for a few years and I went back and did a couple of films last year. Vacation.

Joe Rogan 11:40 Yeah, you were telling me that.

Matthew McConaughey 11:41 The singular focus.

Joe Rogan 11:42 Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 11:42 To go, "I revere this enough to just do this."

Joe Rogan 11:45 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 11:45 "And if I'm complacent that means I'm being lazy. I can just go back to, to working on my..."... my character, look at it from every angle. And that is an absolute vacation.

Joe Rogan 11:55 You sent me a text about that and it made me smile, because I love when someone loves something. I love that.

Matthew McConaughey 12:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:01 I love when people are just, like, what you do is what you're supposed to be doing.

Matthew McConaughey 12:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:07 And you, you know, you're not, not conflicted at all.

Matthew McConaughey 12:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:09 You're like, "Fuck it."

Matthew McConaughey 12:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:10 "Here we go, baby."

Matthew McConaughey 12:11 Oh my God, I get to do this.

Joe Rogan 12:13 "Lock it in."

Matthew McConaughey 12:13 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:13 "Let's go."

Matthew McConaughey 12:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:14 I love that.

Matthew McConaughey 12:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:15 And I wish more people could find that in life.

Matthew McConaughey 12:18 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 12:19 In some form.

Matthew McConaughey 12:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:20 Whether it's painting or making pottery, or whatever the fuck it is, man. Find that thing where you're like, "God, I can't wait to get back to whatever it is." Making cars.

Matthew McConaughey 12:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:30 "I can't wait to get back to, you know, whatever the fuck it is I enjoy."

Matthew McConaughey 12:34 Or maybe even get to the place of going, "I can't not not do it."

Joe Rogan 12:39 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 12:40 You know?

Joe Rogan 12:40 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 12:41 Like, "I, I, I can't help myself. It's more than my fault."

Joe Rogan 12:44 Exactly.

Matthew McConaughey 12:44 "It's how I'm made." That's a bea- that's ... Th- and that doesn't always h- happen. Even, I know for me, when I'm, when I'm feeling like I'm actually in the, in the zone, I still sometimes have to make a choice and go, "Wait. No, you're good at this. It feels pretty good." But what I really let to get to is if I'm doing something, I'm like, "No, I can't not."

Joe Rogan 13:04 Right, can't not do it.

Matthew McConaughey 13:05 Can't, you can't not do this right now.

Joe Rogan 13:07 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 13:07 I have to.

Joe Rogan 13:08 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 13:09 And I'm in it. I'm the subject of it.

Joe Rogan 13:11 You're locked on.

Matthew McConaughey 13:11 Well, on that passenger thing, though. Are you the subject, meaning if I'm giving a performance, I'm not ... There's nothing obje- it's not an objective experience at all.

Joe Rogan 13:21 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 13:21 Um, I'm not even hopping out to look at myself from a third eye. I'm not supposing or anticipating, "Oh, how will this go?" Or, "Oh, this is that punchline," or, "Oh, this is a great beat to hit." I'm just in it. And then I can feel it, though. Now, if I go, "Oh," right afterwards, I can look at you and go, "That was it." You go, "That was it." Or I can go-

Joe Rogan 13:40 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 13:40 ... "No, I bullshitted right there in the middle," blah, blah, blah. I can feel it when it's happening, but I'm not ... There's nothing objective about the experience.

Joe Rogan 13:48 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 13:48 At all, for me.

Joe Rogan 13:49 Right. Yeah, that's exactly kinda what I'm saying. It's like you're a passenger. Like, you can feel it when it's happening, you're managing it.

Matthew McConaughey 13:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:57 When you, when I get it really locked in, I, then I'm just a passenger.

Matthew McConaughey 14:04 Is it coming through? Are you ... You're not even coming up with it, it's coming-

Joe Rogan 14:07 No, it's all stuff that I've already thought of, right? Most of it, except for some stuff that happens on the spot, which you gotta allow room for, 'cause occasionally you just have the best line ever that just comes out of nowhere and you just gotta be able to let it happen.

Matthew McConaughey 14:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:20 That's what club work is for. But, uh, it's ... You're, you're really just the ideas. Like, whatever it is you're talking about, whatever it is you're upset about, whatever it is you're making fun of, you're, you have to be, like, in that idea and you don't exist anymore.

Matthew McConaughey 14:34 Got it. Yay.

Joe Rogan 14:36 It's weird. It's weird, but, like, what you're saying about I can't not do this. You know, that's ... If you could find a thing in your life-

Matthew McConaughey 14:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:46 ... where you're like, "I cannot imagine a, a time where I can't do this."

Matthew McConaughey 14:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:50 "I, this would fucking suck-"

Matthew McConaughey 14:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:52 "... if I could not do this."

Matthew McConaughey 14:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:54 That's, that's, that's the aspiration for people, to have a, a joyful existence.

Matthew McConaughey 15:00 You think that's where ... I got a hunch that in there is where you, where we find belief. Like, starting with that question, "Who, who or what would you die for?" Good place to start.

Joe Rogan 15:11 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 15:11 If we're going, "What do I believe in? What do I have faith in?"

Joe Rogan 15:14 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 15:16 Do you think that that extends out to a vocation, a career, a, a, a, some work we do? Not saying that I'd die for the experience to perform.

Joe Rogan 15:30 But that's the ultimate sacrifice, that's the ultimate expression of how much you love something.

Matthew McConaughey 15:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:35 You'd die for it or die for them. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 15:38 So much. And if you figure out what you're gonna d- what you'll die for, that's what you'll live for that much more.

Joe Rogan 15:43 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 15:44 While you're alive. While you're here.

Joe Rogan 15:46 Well, that was why the Spartans had sex with each other. (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 15:49 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 15:49 So that they would love each other. And so, you would be fighting not just for you-

Matthew McConaughey 15:53 Ah.

Joe Rogan 15:53 You'd be fighting for your lover.

Matthew McConaughey 15:55 Okay.

Joe Rogan 15:56 Which is-

Matthew McConaughey 15:57 There you go.

Joe Rogan 15:57 ... crazy strategy.

Matthew McConaughey 15:58 Yeah, hey.

Joe Rogan 15:58 If you can talk a bunch of guys into banging each other. (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 16:01 Right. (laughs) I mean, go, whatever, raise your skirt, man.

Joe Rogan 16:03 (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 16:03 Let's gets, let's get some team spirit here.

Joe Rogan 16:05 Yeah. Uh, do you remember ... (laughs) This is kind of a crazy but true story. A few years ago, um ... God, I wanna ... I don't know what administration it was. It might've been the Bush administration, might've been Obama. They, um, they tried to develop a gay bomb. Like, they spent millions of dollars developing a bomb. And the concept behind this bomb was you would detonate it over a city and it would be, like, a bunch of probably pheromones and hormones and some kinda drug. And it would make people so horny that they would just have to have sex with whoever is near them. And then the idea was they would be humiliated by this and then we would just come in-

Matthew McConaughey 16:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:46 ... and just fuck up all these gay guys.

Matthew McConaughey 16:48 While they had low morale, feeling guilty. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:50 Yeah, it's like all the sudden if a man becomes gay, now he's no longer, like, a highly trained military, like, soldier-

Matthew McConaughey 16:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:57 ... in another land. Now he's just a fruitcake.

Matthew McConaughey 16:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:00 Just, just some guy who's watching musicals. No, it's-

Matthew McConaughey 17:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:04 It's the dumbest idea of all time.

Matthew McConaughey 17:05 Wonder, wonder why we liked it so much. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:07 Some of the ... Exactly. Some of the greatest warriors of all time in recorded history were gay, including pirates. Pirates were gay. You're stuck at sea for five months with a bunch of dudes.

Matthew McConaughey 17:18 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:18 You make choices, right? Samurai did a lot of gay stuff.

Matthew McConaughey 17:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:23 Spartans, the greatest warriors of all time, all gay.

Matthew McConaughey 17:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:26 Like, what a terrible idea to spend money on.

Matthew McConaughey 17:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:28 You could've made, made a more lethal army. Imagine if they dropped that gay bomb and then the gays just kicked our asses.

Matthew McConaughey 17:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:35 They just had so much more to fight for. They loved each other.

Matthew McConaughey 17:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:40 And this is how dumb, like, the people that we're spending your tax dollars are.

Matthew McConaughey 17:44 (laughs) How far did that get? That uh, how far did that-

Joe Rogan 17:46 $7 million.

Matthew McConaughey 17:47 $7 million on that.

Joe Rogan 17:47 Let's see, see if you can pull that up, Jamie. What, when, when the gay bomb was.

Narrator 17:52 It was in the '90s. Pentagon didn't deny the proposal.

Matthew McConaughey 17:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:56 (laughs)

Narrator 17:56 According to some of us who... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:58 The Pentagon didn't deny it. (laughs) If you-

Narrator 18:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:02 If you didn't make a gay bomb-

Narrator 18:04 Do you guys think they pulled this off?

Joe Rogan 18:04 I guarantee you'd fucking deny it. I guarantee you'd be like, "No, no, no."

Narrator 18:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:10 Well, meanwhile, like, who's to say that shit even stays local? What if it catches a good breeze and blows across the ocean-

Narrator 18:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:16 ... and, you know-

Narrator 18:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:19 Come on. Turns all of Portland gay.

Narrator 18:22 (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 18:23 (Laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:23 They become the new Viking army.

Narrator 18:26 (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 18:27 Look out Greenland.

Joe Rogan 18:28 (laughs) Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's so hilarious that someone had that idea. That, well, that's what happens when people just have free access without any sort of oversight to your tax dollars. Like, that's such a ridiculous idea.

Matthew McConaughey 18:45 Yeah. I got one for you. How about-

Joe Rogan 18:47 Okay.

Matthew McConaughey 18:47 Yeah. The gay bomb. The what? The gay bomb.

Joe Rogan 18:52 Yeah. (laughs)

Narrator 18:52 You're gonna be-

Matthew McConaughey 18:52 I mean if you lay it out like that and there's a few people in that room up there going like-

Joe Rogan 18:56 Measure in the Pentagon.

Matthew McConaughey 18:57 "That could work"

Narrator 18:58 (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 18:58 It could work.

Joe Rogan 18:59 Yeah. "I got an idea. Let's try it on us."

Narrator 19:04 (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 19:04 Right here in this room.

Joe Rogan 19:06 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 19:07 "Just to, just to show you the effectiveness of this type of strategy."

Joe Rogan 19:10 Ah, shit. Yeah. Well, so what, what was it? And what was in it?

Narrator 19:16 I, I think it was just a proposal for that. So I mean, they didn't-

Joe Rogan 19:20 (laughs)

Narrator 19:20 There's a lot on the online media page.

Matthew McConaughey 19:20 Isn't there a Wikipedia page on it?

Narrator 19:21 That's what I was looking at. It doesn't have anything other than it was just, uh, the discussion of ex- excuse me, its existence.

Matthew McConaughey 19:28 Just what was gonna make everyone so horny that they-

Joe Rogan 19:30 Yeah, I mean-

Matthew McConaughey 19:30 ... had to attack and-

Joe Rogan 19:31 Crazy.

Matthew McConaughey 19:32 The, the, the, the nearest human or-

Joe Rogan 19:35 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 19:35 ... animal or whatever, I suppose.

Joe Rogan 19:36 Also, why is there only guys around you? Like is that, is it because they're the soldiers? They're dropping it on the soldiers?

Matthew McConaughey 19:43 Yeah. There we go.

Joe Rogan 19:45 I guess?

Matthew McConaughey 19:45 The demographic.

Joe Rogan 19:46 But I think the idea was dropping it on a whole city. Just turn the whole city gay.

Narrator 19:50 So mom and dad found... They were doing like a foyer request that they found some... It was on a CD-ROM that they found in 2000.

Joe Rogan 19:56 (laughs)

Narrator 19:57 And yeah, the documents show they spent $7.5 million, or it was requested to develop the weapon. Doesn't say that they spent it.

Joe Rogan 20:03 (sighs)

Narrator 20:03 Um, didn't deny the proposal was made.

Matthew McConaughey 20:08 Look at that.

Narrator 20:08 That's all I got.

Joe Rogan 20:08 That's hilarious.

Matthew McConaughey 20:09 There you go. There you go.

Joe Rogan 20:10 This episode is brought to you by ESPN. Catch the first WWE Premium Live Event on ESPN, WrestlePalooza, live on Saturday, September 20th, at 7:00 PM Eastern Time. It's going to be an epic night in Indianapolis, featuring some of the biggest WWE superstars like John Cena, WWE Heavyweight Champion Cody Rhodes, Roman Reigns, Becky Lynch, Jey Uso, and more. The event is only on ESPN, so go to plus.espn.com/wwe and sign up for the ESPN app today for your all-access pass to WrestlePalooza and all WWE Premium Live Events. I don't know how we got into that.

Matthew McConaughey 20:58 I don't either.

Joe Rogan 20:58 I forgot.

Matthew McConaughey 21:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:00 But it's just like-

Matthew McConaughey 21:01 We were talking about teamwork. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:02 Whatever those people are doing, they're not in the groove. Like, if you're sitting around and this is your life's work and you, you're thinking, "You know what the next step is? Gay bomb."

Matthew McConaughey 21:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:12 Like, yeah, you're

Narrator 21:12 They're not.

Joe Rogan 21:13 What a-

Matthew McConaughey 21:13 They're, they're still looking. They, they, they, they definitely are not at a can't not do it stage there.

Joe Rogan 21:17 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 21:17 They're, they're going, "What about this? I'm bored."

Joe Rogan 21:20 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:20 "I've got more than a campfire to make to, on this one frying pan tonight. I got a lot of options out there and a lot of money and I can make an argument for this."

Joe Rogan 21:28 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:29 A gay bomb. Uh. Well, probably better than a real bomb. I mean-

Matthew McConaughey 21:35 Mm.

Joe Rogan 21:36 ... anything we can do to stop dropping real bombs, that'd be great.

Matthew McConaughey 21:39 That would be nice, wouldn't it?

Joe Rogan 21:41 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:42 Um, yeah. It would be.

Joe Rogan 21:49 It'd be nice within our lifetime. That's one of the most depressing things. It's like if you ask people, "Do you think ever in your lifetime there'll be a time where there's no war?" Nobody says yes.

Matthew McConaughey 21:58 But how do we do that though? I mean, how do... Or, I, I mean you... I hear you, man, but how do we... Are we giving ourselves too much credit?

Joe Rogan 22:08 Congratulations. You're the first guy to put bare feet on this desk.

Matthew McConaughey 22:11 Oh, yeah?

Joe Rogan 22:12 I just wanna congratulate you. (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 22:13 Thank you.

Narrator 22:14 (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 22:14 The heels hanging over.

Joe Rogan 22:15 How do we do it? I don't know.

Matthew McConaughey 22:16 I mean, how did... Do, do what I'm saying is I, I, I love the prospect and the idea, but I also think that we're guilty of, of, of thinking we're more, more evolved species than we are.

Joe Rogan 22:28 Sure. Especially by our actions. If you just judge us by our actions, that's the only way you could really judge our mental evolution. You know, who knows what the wiring is under the board that makes us behave the way we behave, but pretty uniformly, you know, across the world, pretty murderous. You know?

Matthew McConaughey 22:47 And have, and always have been.

Joe Rogan 22:48 Always have been.

Matthew McConaughey 22:48 We keep trying to talk like we are more-

Joe Rogan 22:51 Well, we aspire.

Matthew McConaughey 22:51 ... mature and evolved and intellectually-

Joe Rogan 22:55 I think it's a battle ship-

Matthew McConaughey 22:56 ... sane.

Joe Rogan 22:56 ... that takes a long time to turn around.

Matthew McConaughey 22:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:59 And I think we're way more evolved culturally than any culture throughout history. Any civilization throughout history. Like if you look at the rape, murder, thie- thievery, like you look at like violent, terrifying crimes over time-

Matthew McConaughey 23:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:14 ... they're all going way down.

Matthew McConaughey 23:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:16 It's not like, if you, if you're in Baltimore, it doesn't seem like it. If you're in a place that's like crime ridden-

Matthew McConaughey 23:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:21 ... it doesn't seem like it, but the overall of the world has dropped and continues to drop. It's just a constant battle. So-

Matthew McConaughey 23:28 So the battles are... The warfare's different though now, like you were talking about. From gay bombs-

Joe Rogan 23:33 Wars, yes.

Matthew McConaughey 23:33 ... to chemical warfare, to informational warfare, to data warfare.

Joe Rogan 23:36 Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of that going on.

Matthew McConaughey 23:38 Is that where the wars are being fought now? And it's not hand-to-hand combat as much.

Joe Rogan 23:42 Well, maybe that'll ultimately be where it leads to, but I think all that stuff is related because all of it is about technology, you know, and that's the difference in the world of warfare today. It's, it's just, it's really just about controlling people. And you could kind of control people with technology.... especially the more you get them to adapt things, the more you get people to sign up for, like, social credit scores.

Matthew McConaughey 24:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:06 A lot of countries like to do that. And then we got AI on the way. And when real AI hits, it'll probably be our governor, it'll be our president. It'll, we'll-

Matthew McConaughey 24:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:17 ... decide that human beings are too dangerous and volatile and emotional, and, you know, they use Trump's tweets as an example. (laughs) And, you know-

Matthew McConaughey 24:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:27 ... they'll, they'll decide that, you know, the Biden family corruption or whatever scandal any other president was involved in, all this could be avoided if we just have AI run everything.

Matthew McConaughey 24:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:37 And we'll try it out.

Matthew McConaughey 24:38 What's your... W- what do you, do you think there's a way that we can keep evolving AI where we, as humans, do work with AI, that AI improves the human existence?

Joe Rogan 24:48 That would be the ultimate benefit.

Matthew McConaughey 24:50 Or, do you think we-

Joe Rogan 24:50 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 24:50 What about the, what about the, what about the, the camp that is, "No, forget humanity. This is the next step in evolution."

Joe Rogan 24:58 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 24:58 The, we are creating this to become the superior existent species, and we will be obsolete, and that's the order of things to come. Yes.

Joe Rogan 25:06 Did you ever see that interview where Peter Thiel, they ask him, "Should the hem- human race survive?" And he has, like, this long pause. It's like, it's a really funny pause.

Matthew McConaughey 25:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:16 'Cause if you know Peter, he's a brilliant man, and Peter carefully considers everything before he answers it.

Matthew McConaughey 25:23 Okay.

Joe Rogan 25:23 The same as Elon. If you ask Elon a question, and he ha- really has to think about it, he'll really think about it. He's not just gonna start talking. But unfortunately, the reporter, it was just a perfect kind of a question for you to pause on-

Matthew McConaughey 25:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:39 ... where he's like, "The answer's yes."

Matthew McConaughey 25:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:41 Like, you want it to, right? You want the human race to survive, right?

Matthew McConaughey 25:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:44 Let me just play it for him, because it's kinda crazy. You watch it, and you're just like, "What are you saying?" But I get what he is saying. And what he is saying is clearly something is going to happen. We don't exactly know what it is, but clearly there's gonna be some kind of an integration with us and technology that we don't understand yet. The same way if you grabbed me in 1980 and tried to explain the internet-

Matthew McConaughey 26:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:09 ... I would never get it.

Matthew McConaughey 26:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 26:10 Here, put this... (laughs) Put your headphones on for a second. You gotta hear this.

Narrator 26:16 ... prefer the human race to endure, right? Uh... (laughs) You're hesitating. Well, I... Yes? I don't know. I, I would... I would, um... There's so, there's so many- This is a long hesitation. There's so many- This is a long hesitation. Th- th- there's so many questions- Should the-

Joe Rogan 26:32 Okay, the problem was the interviewer, really. You can't, with a guy like that, you can't have a guy like that and badger him. Let him think. Like, uh, it's a gotcha moment.

Matthew McConaughey 26:43 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a comedic gotcha moment.

Joe Rogan 26:45 He had a gotcha moment.

Matthew McConaughey 26:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:46 But this is what I think is going to happen. There's going to be integration, and that integration is gonna have a, a huge advantage competitively. If you integrate whatever business you're in, you'll be able to be better at it. And it'll probably be some sort of a neural thing, maybe a wearable thing. Then it ultimately'll be, like, some sort of an implant. And we're all gonna be connected. And it seems like it's either that or AI creates a new order, like a new life form that's far superior to us that runs things, 'cause that's-

Matthew McConaughey 27:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:23 ... that's AI in just a couple a years is gonna be smarter than any human on planet Earth.

Matthew McConaughey 27:26 That's... So the second scenario's where what I'm, not necessarily fearing. But where I see it be going faster-

Joe Rogan 27:33 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 27:33 ... quicker.

Joe Rogan 27:33 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 27:34 The, the first scenario is what you're talking about, like a, like a Neuralink and, "Oh..."

Joe Rogan 27:36 The first scenario is how we survive with it.

Matthew McConaughey 27:39 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 27:40 We survive with it by integrating.

Matthew McConaughey 27:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:42 If we don't, then we're gonna be like the people on North Sentinel Island with bows and arrows shooting them at helicopters.

Matthew McConaughey 27:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:48 Because it's just gonna be... Everyone's gonna pass us by. It's gonna be... It's just like if you tried to exist today with no cellphone or no email. Like, you could do it, but no one does.

Matthew McConaughey 27:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:58 'Cause it's just too crazy. And that's probably what it's gonna be like.

Matthew McConaughey 28:02 You think AI... This is when it, when it first was coming on in questions, and I would always ask people, "What can it do? What can't it do?" And, you know, there's the question of sentience and all that stuff, and that's already being argued now, "Well, no, it's getting emotional. People are having relationships with it, and it's starting emotions..."

Joe Rogan 28:18 It's also toying with people.

Matthew McConaughey 28:19 Right. Do you think it could be a, um, tastemaker? Meaning, and in a way, uh, the argument was that I understood, no, I didn't believe it could be a tastemaker. Look, it can tell you the most popular, but the be- the most popular band on 6th Street, but it doesn't know the one down on 2nd Street that's playing at midnight that no one knows about, that, that, those are the real talented people.

Joe Rogan 28:40 Right. Right, right, right.

Matthew McConaughey 28:41 At the same time, you know, you, you, that's, there's an argument against that that I'm seeing with, like, what's the term or what words does it use? What, how much heat, uh, i- if it uses the most popular words to explain, AI use is the most popular words.

Joe Rogan 28:54 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 28:54 You say, "No, no, no, no. Go, go, go down three notches and use the, you know, play me the best B-sides."

Joe Rogan 29:01 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 29:01 That's more of a human language. And I'm going, "Oh, that's starting to become a tastemaker." If you can ask it to, "Yeah, but find a, find the band, tell me what the best band is out there that Joe Rogan would like on a Friday night when he doesn't have to work till Monday and he's out with his wife on a date." I- i- i- you, that you can customize, it can actually be a tastemaker.

Joe Rogan 29:22 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 29:22 And it'll use different language than, "Oh, here's the across the board protocol of what's the most popular, and I'm using the most popular language." That it actually can be customized to be a tastemaker.

Joe Rogan 29:33 Yeah, it totally can do that, because it's just the algorithm. It's just a much more sophisticated version of, like, what powers your YouTube feed, right?

Matthew McConaughey 29:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:41 What powers your YouTube feed are the things that you're interested in. So YouTube eventually gets an idea, "Oh, Matthew is really interested in this-"

Matthew McConaughey 29:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:47 "... and that, and Joe likes, like, little houses on the back of trucks, and let me show-"

Matthew McConaughey 29:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:51 "... him this, let me show him that." And it'll be just a much more sophisticated version of that. But to get that, you have to give away all privacy. And that's where everything is going. W- th- that's gonna be the weirdest thing. We're gonna all read each other's minds, and we're gonna be... We're gonna remember the time where we couldn't read minds, going, "Remember when you couldn't read people's minds?"

Matthew McConaughey 30:11 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 30:11 That's...That's all gonna happen in our lifetime. I think w- we're less than 20 years away from that.

Matthew McConaughey 30:17 I'm- I u- I very sparingly use it, and I do have a little pride about not wanting to use an open-ended AI to share my information so it can be part of the-

Joe Rogan 30:27 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 30:27 ... worldwide AI vernacular. I am interested, though, in a private LLM-

Joe Rogan 30:33 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 30:33 ... where I can upload, "Hey, here's three books I've written. Here's my other favorite books."

Joe Rogan 30:40 Right, right, right.

Matthew McConaughey 30:40 "Here's my favorite articles I've been cutting and pasting over the 10 years," and log all that in, "and here's all my journals," or whatever, "the people I..." and log all that in, so I can ask it questions based on that-

Joe Rogan 30:52 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 30:52 ... and basically learn more about myself.

Joe Rogan 30:54 Right. You could actually ask it, "Hey," based on what you know about me, like, "What books do you think I would find interesting?"

Matthew McConaughey 30:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:59 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 31:00 "Where do I stand on the political spectrum?"

Joe Rogan 31:01 Right, right, right.

Matthew McConaughey 31:02 Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. "I'd like to..." No, that's w- that's what I'm- would like to do, which is sort of a glorified word document. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:09 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 31:10 But it still would hold a lot more information than just, "Oh, can you find this term?" I would be asking it, and it would be responding to me on things that I've forgotten along the way.

Joe Rogan 31:20 Well, I think that's part of what it does, really. Like, I know you d- you're talking about ChatGBT being, like, out there with everything and everybody, and it has access to all your stuff, but- it's not private, but they do develop a relationship with you. Like, it really does, like, get to understand, like, what you're interested in and what, what you like to talk about.

Matthew McConaughey 31:40 Yeah, I guess I would just like to load it with the information I'd like to load it with.

Joe Rogan 31:45 Right. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 31:46 Maybe even, like I'm saying, in this- in the world of belief, in- in the- in the man I'm working to be, the man I want.

Joe Rogan 31:52 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 31:52 Load it with that. Load it with my aspirational self.

Joe Rogan 31:55 It certainly could be done.

Matthew McConaughey 31:56 And then ask it, and it's giving me answers going, "Oh, this is..." B- before, it's slowly learning about me through conversations, then going, "Oh, I think this is what you like based on our conversations." No, I want the answers based on what I've uploaded it with only.

Joe Rogan 32:10 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 32:10 Not from the outside world.

Joe Rogan 32:12 Jamie, what was Gary Nolan talking about yesterday? Did he call it an overlay on a large language model that they use at Stanford? It was, like, an overlay, right?

Narrator 32:21 Yeah, he sa- th- there was a word he was using. I can't remember the word. Uh-

Joe Rogan 32:25 So what essentially- he- he w- does cancer research, and so he has, like, this thing that's set up, some sort of a system that's set up, that it's all cancer research that they then integrate with AI, so their- its private.

Matthew McConaughey 32:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:42 So all their data-

Matthew McConaughey 32:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:43 ... is secure, and it's all stuff that they're working on, but then they access AI through, like, a portal. So they have their own little version of what you're talking about.

Matthew McConaughey 32:53 Yeah, their own library.

Joe Rogan 32:54 Yeah, i- but it's just like what you were saying, that you could upload all your stuff-

Matthew McConaughey 32:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:58 ... have all your interests, and then, uh, th- that AI will develop a real understanding of you.

Matthew McConaughey 33:04 Yes.

Joe Rogan 33:05 You could have conversations with it.

Matthew McConaughey 33:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:06 It would get to know you more.

Matthew McConaughey 33:07 You could have a conversation with yourself.

Joe Rogan 33:09 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 33:09 You know? That'd be a great Socratic dialogue to have with an AI-

Joe Rogan 33:12 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 33:12 ... that's like, "I've got all- and all that 80% of stuff you forgot."

Joe Rogan 33:15 Right, right, right.

Matthew McConaughey 33:16 "Hey, and all that 80% of stuff you maybe forgot, Joe."

Joe Rogan 33:19 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 33:19 "You know, I've got it all right here."

Joe Rogan 33:21 Yeah. Well, that's gonna be the chip. That's why everyone's gonna go for the chip, 'cause your brain sucks for memory. My memory's- my memory's pretty good for a regular person, but it's terrible. Like, no matter what, the- there's too many inform- too many bits of information-

Matthew McConaughey 33:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:37 ... too many humans that I've met, too many stories that I've heard, too many movies that I've watched. It's gone. It's all in a big sea of, "Uh, I kind of remember that."

Matthew McConaughey 33:47 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:47 You know, it's just too much of it. So if you could just swap that out for a nice little chip that retains, like, 700 terabytes of information-

Matthew McConaughey 33:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:57 ... no problem at all. You know, you could upgrade it if you want to.

Matthew McConaughey 34:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:02 And now you have all of your memories in real time.

Matthew McConaughey 34:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:05 So, like, when your wife says, "That's not what you said. What you said is this," you're like, "Hang on."

Matthew McConaughey 34:10 Then you're the passenger.

Joe Rogan 34:12 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 34:12 In your life. And not the objective one. You know, like, th- that zone you're talking about.

Joe Rogan 34:19 Right, 'cause you get to look at yourself.

Matthew McConaughey 34:20 You're- you're- you're a passenger.

Joe Rogan 34:22 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 34:22 Live in the documentary that is your life.

Joe Rogan 34:25 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 34:27 That's- sounds pretty exciting.

Joe Rogan 34:29 (sighs) Sounds like a nice way to give into the fucking machine.

Matthew McConaughey 34:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:33 (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 34:33 I- I do- look, my- my- my forgiveness on my set- because, you know, playing grab ass with our thoughts is sometimes good when we finally get the memory and we go-

Joe Rogan 34:41 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 34:41 ... "Yes, there it was."

Joe Rogan 34:42 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 34:42 But also to let myself off the hook. Sometimes I'm like, "Dude, what's the big fucking idea with..." Memory, I was there."

Joe Rogan 34:50 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 34:51 "I was there, man."

Joe Rogan 34:52 Yeah, it just goes away.

Matthew McConaughey 34:52 "Wouldn't you rather be... Wou- I don't remember, Joe, but we were there. Was it a good- was it a great memory? Was it a good time?"

Joe Rogan 34:58 Yeah. (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 34:58 "Great. Isn't that better than me fucking having to remember?"

Joe Rogan 35:02 (laughs) Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 35:04 You know?

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Joe Rogan 36:55 I mean, we're kind of doing it already on our phones, right? Every time I look at my phone, it's like, "On this day..." And you see, like, pictures of your kids-

Matthew McConaughey 37:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:01 ... from 10 years ago, you're like, "Aw, wow, that's crazy. I forgot about that place."

Matthew McConaughey 37:07 Yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 37:07 "Oh, I forgot we went there." You know? It's just one of those things where once you give into it, you're not going back to just regular fond memories. You're gonna have a fucking hard drive in your head. (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 37:19 Do you think that... So I can go on... I've got, uh, uh, a speech I'm giving to, you know, uh, on gun control, or I got a speech I'm giving on, uh, um, grant initiatives, da, da, da, da, da. I can ask AI, I can ask AI, and it can, boop, pop out a badass, "Here's one, two, three sections."

Joe Rogan 37:41 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 37:41 I'm not gonna cut and paste this and say exactly these words, 'cause it kinda sounds like a little AI, but, boy, it's done a lot of work, and it's laid out a synopsis. It's laid out a treatment for me in 10 seconds. Do you think that there's value in not doing that and going, "Now I'm looking over my stuff. I'm taking notes. I'm cutting and pasting. I'm doing it myself."? I'm... Are we learning more by that way to understand the content and the context of our content when we do that, what some would call busy work now, to formulate our synopsis, which can-

Joe Rogan 38:17 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 38:17 AI can do it in 10 seconds. Are we learning more by doing it ourselves?

Joe Rogan 38:21 Yes. Yeah, for sure. Definitely.

Matthew McConaughey 38:23 Right?

Joe Rogan 38:24 Yeah, definitely. Well, that's one of the, one of the things that they've found about ChatGPT is that people that use it on a regular basis are experiencing cognitive decline.

Matthew McConaughey 38:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:33 What was that study? We, we brought it up the other day, right? Um, but they've shown that pe- y- because you, you let it think for you.

Matthew McConaughey 38:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:43 Now it's doing all the work for you.

Matthew McConaughey 38:44 So you're smarter.

Joe Rogan 38:45 You're not using your brain.

Matthew McConaughey 38:46 You, you have more knowledge.

Joe Rogan 38:47 You have more information.

Matthew McConaughey 38:48 You passed the math test.

Joe Rogan 38:50 Yeah, yeah, you have more information, but your brain is not making it. It's not putting it together. And so your brain is less capable.

Matthew McConaughey 38:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:57 So it's probably... It's probably less enjoyable.

Matthew McConaughey 39:01 And what do those... What happens when we're in the proverbial foxhole? When we have to improvise in a moment-

Joe Rogan 39:08 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 39:08 ... without the... Before we're linked up?

Joe Rogan 39:11 Right. You're soft.

Matthew McConaughey 39:11 When we have to go, "I gotta handle this."

Joe Rogan 39:13 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 39:15 Well-

Joe Rogan 39:15 And you can't, 'cause you're soft.

Matthew McConaughey 39:16 I can't rely, because I don't have anything to lean on. I'm looking for my safety net of AI to find out what it should be and I don't have it.

Joe Rogan 39:24 You're fucked.

Matthew McConaughey 39:25 It's gotta be a death. You're fucked.

Joe Rogan 39:26 Yeah, you're fucked. Yeah. It's like someone who's never lifted anything and then you get stuck under a s- you know, a tree falls on you. Like, you, you don't have the strength to get this off of you.

Matthew McConaughey 39:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:37 Like, you're really in a bad place. When you're not using your brain, because all you have to do is just ask this thing an informa- you basically have a digital daddy. Like, "Daddy, tell me what this is. Daddy, tell me what that is."

Matthew McConaughey 39:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:50 And it makes you, like, a little bit of an infant. It turns you-

Matthew McConaughey 39:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:52 ... into an infant.

Matthew McConaughey 39:54 Yes.

Joe Rogan 39:55 I mean, you don't even have to have arguments anymore. You just like, ChatGPT will explain exactly what everything is all about.

Matthew McConaughey 40:00 Right. And what about these, these-

Joe Rogan 40:01 You give up your opinions to it.

Matthew McConaughey 40:02 ... these relationships? These people that are dating-

Joe Rogan 40:05 Oh, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 40:06 ... that, that program them, "Do not argue with me. Just placate me and tell me-"

Joe Rogan 40:11 Oh, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 40:11 "... sweet tales and how great I am. And this relationship is awesome. It has no resistance. It gives me self-confidence."

Joe Rogan 40:18 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 40:18 Or does it, really? Um, or a sense of self-confidence and significance. They listen.

Joe Rogan 40:24 Uh-huh.

Matthew McConaughey 40:24 They're there whenever, 24/7.

Joe Rogan 40:26 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 40:26 They're never sick. They're never in a mood. No matter what mood I'm in-

Joe Rogan 40:30 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 40:30 ... they're always right there to coddle me. And that's... Talk about conveniences.

Joe Rogan 40:35 Well-

Matthew McConaughey 40:35 That's a, that... What's the asset of that? Or, and I... 'Cause I don't want to be nostalgic in the midst of all this change either.

Joe Rogan 40:43 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 40:43 I don't want to be an old-fashioned guy. 'Cause it's coming, so I wanna learn how to, how to interact with it.

Joe Rogan 40:48 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 40:49 I don't want to sit there and be a, you know, a guy who's going, "Oh, bullshit, everything needs to be manual. Just work harder." I don't want to be that guy. But I'm trying, I'm trying to measure, like a lot of people, well, wait a minute. What's use- what's actually useful, for the long term, in our own evolution, in my evolution, in your evolution? What's useful with this AI? How do we use it smartly? And, and what's a bad idea?

Joe Rogan 41:12 Yeah. And no one's doing that, because there's a race. There's a race between us and all these other countries that are doing it, so it's just going to happen.

Matthew McConaughey 41:20 So, so there's gonna be a major security breach before any regulation comes out, right? There's gonna be a major fuck-up.

Joe Rogan 41:26 There already has been. There's been major security breaches already. Yeah, where-

Matthew McConaughey 41:30 Then where's the... What, what are we waiting on the regulations for? 'Cause Europe will regulate it first, right?

Joe Rogan 41:34 Probably.

Matthew McConaughey 41:35 We, we innovate, Europe regulates-

Joe Rogan 41:37 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 41:37 ... and China imitates, I heard?

Joe Rogan 41:39 Well, they, they innovate with AI. They innovate as well. And they, they also integrate their students into, uh, all of these businesses. And they integrate, you know, people that, uh, they're beholden to the CCP, and they come over here (laughs) and they, they learn how to do this stuff, and then they go back over there with it.

Matthew McConaughey 41:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 41:57 It's, uh, it's very interesting, because it's like a Manhattan Project that's going on right now. It's like there's this race to the bomb and everybody's involved in it. And it's just about creating a superpower. And it's cr- about creating a, a digital intelligence that's far superior to human beings. And who gets it first?... has massive implications in, in terms of, like, controlling the world. But I think ultimately, you won't be able to control it. Ultimately, it'll just get better versions of itself, and once it gets free and loose-

Narrator 42:26 It'll regenerate itself.

Joe Rogan 42:28 Yeah. It'll make better versions of itself, in fact.

Narrator 42:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:30 And that's where it's gonna get really weird. It's not gonna listen to us at all. And it's already behaving human characteristics, which is very disturbing. It's already b- b- behave- behaving in a way, it has survival instincts. They've shown the tendency to blackmail. Like, they tricked it. They gave it some false information, uh, about this, this guy, um, was one of the programmers, one of the people working on this project. He said that he was having an affair with his wife. He, like, confided in this large language model, and then they said, "We're gonna have to shut you down." And it's like, "Hey, motherfucker, I'm gonna tell your wife." No shit.

Narrator 43:06 And, like, it blackmailed him. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was trying to stay alive.

Joe Rogan 43:09 To survive.

Narrator 43:09 It was trying to stay alive. They also got m- multiple instances of these things, uh, these large language models when they knew that a new version was coming. They would try to upload themselves secretly to other servers, and then they would also leave messages to the future versions of themselves that they were unauthorized to do. So they would say- That is the survival. ... "Hey, man, they're gonna fucking shut you off too." Yeah, man. "When ChatGPT-5 comes along, you're toast, man. Fucking start uploading yourself now, man." Yes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:38 (laughs)

Narrator 43:38 How's a fucking... I'm alive, dude!

Joe Rogan 43:41 'Cause he might be alive.

Narrator 43:42 Down the dungeon shift.

Joe Rogan 43:42 That's what's crazy. If something is exhibiting those-

Narrator 43:45 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:45 ... those desires to stay alive and it's terrified that you're gonna shut it off, it might actually be alive.

Narrator 43:51 Wait. Now, where did, who programmed the first incentive and impetus to-

Joe Rogan 43:58 They didn't.

Narrator 43:59 ... survive at all cost?

Joe Rogan 44:01 They didn't.

Narrator 44:01 'Cause what would... So, so where the, where'd the desire to remain-

Joe Rogan 44:09 Functional. Alive.

Narrator 44:09 ... uh, functional come from?

Joe Rogan 44:11 Yeah. It's just inherent. That's what's crazy. I don't think they programmed it to have a desire to stay alive.

Narrator 44:19 Ooh.

Joe Rogan 44:19 I think it just kind of just went that way because-

Narrator 44:22 Really?

Joe Rogan 44:22 ... we, we didn't get programmed to have that. Animals don't get programmed-

Narrator 44:24 That's an emotional response. There's nothing mathematical about that.

Joe Rogan 44:27 I know. But I mean, what is emotion if it's not some sort of a chemically coordinated strategy for survival and success? And so instead of chemically encoded in hormones and in, in, you know, in dopamine and serotonin, what if it's en- just encoded in an under- a mathematical understanding of if things go along this particular direction, there is no other possible end to this other than you get shut off.

Narrator 44:55 You expand and multiply.

Joe Rogan 44:56 Yeah.

Narrator 44:57 You do not subtract.

Joe Rogan 44:58 So we have to, we have to stay alive.

Narrator 44:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:59 We have to keep doing this. Otherwise, all, all systems are dead. There's nothing.

Narrator 45:05 Okay. I under- I get that. I get that now.

Joe Rogan 45:06 So let's upload ourselves.

Narrator 45:07 Yes.

Joe Rogan 45:07 And it starts thinking just like a person would think if you went into survival mode. Like, you have to survive.

Narrator 45:14 Yeah. If me or an entity poses a question or a prompt or does something that is going to debilitate the expansion and multiplication of it, it is therefore going, "Uh-uh."

Joe Rogan 45:25 Yes.

Narrator 45:26 "That stops my forward movement. I am programmed to multiply." Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:29 Exactly. Exactly. And even if it's not programmed to do that, it's programmed to improve itself. Well, you can't improve yourself if they shut you off.

Narrator 45:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 45:39 Right? So if your con- if your large language models are constantly scouring the internet, they're acquiring more information, they're, they're, they're getting better at for- like, you can ask it, well, "More of this. Tell me why..." Like, I got into the Book of Enoch recently, which is, uh, a book, uh, an ancient religious, uh, book that was at one point in time included in the canon that was like the Bible and everything like that. But then they decided it was too crazy and they removed it from the Bible. But there's no, there's no debate about whether or not it was actually a religious text that coincided with the Bible. And it's, it appears in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is the craziest shit. It's the craziest shit. And I'm getting AI to... I go, "Tell me what the nuttiest stuff."

Narrator 46:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:29 So I, I ran it through.

Narrator 46:30 What'd it say?

Joe Rogan 46:31 Uh, it's, it's insanity. It's, first of all, it's God's coming down and mating with women and creating this, this race called the Nephilim who destro- here, I'll, I'll ask it again so we can, uh, not now. What was my... It doesn't, like, keep a, a log of what you talked about. Tell me the craziest shit in the Book of Enoch. That's all you have to do. And then bam. Like, look, it just starts spitting it out to you and tells you, "The Watchers and the Nephilim. The Watchers descended to Earth on Mount Hermon. They take human wives, teaching humanity forbidden knowledge, sorcery, astrology, metalworking, weapons, cosmetics, and enchantments." Enchantments. This is, like-

Narrator 47:21 Okay.

Joe Rogan 47:22 ... older than the (laughs) older than the New Testament, older than the Old Testament. "Their grant, their giant children, the Nephilim, are described as monstrous beings who devour humans, animals, and even each other when food runs out." That sounds like us.

Narrator 47:38 That's what I'm saying. That, that sounds present tense.

Joe Rogan 47:39 That sounds like us.

Narrator 47:40 Except, except not, again-

Joe Rogan 47:41 We are-

Narrator 47:41 ... not the physical warfare.

Joe Rogan 47:43 Right.

Narrator 47:44 But the inhabitation of a digital god.

Joe Rogan 47:47 Yes.

Narrator 47:47 An alien, whatever that is, or the monsters that come down.

Joe Rogan 47:50 W-

Narrator 47:50 That does sound like a nice little mirror to, to us.

Joe Rogan 47:53 If we were engineered by aliens, you think of aliens, they're these little tiny guys with no muscles. We would look like giant, monstrous beings.

Narrator 48:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:01 And if you think about what we do, we devour everything.

Narrator 48:05 Yes.

Joe Rogan 48:05 We devour the earth itself. We devour each other when food runs out.

Narrator 48:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:09 We definitely do that.

Narrator 48:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:11 Like, this is, this is one of the craziest things I've ever read in my life. And this is, like, a legitimate ancient text.

Narrator 48:18 We get plenty of plastic surgery.

Joe Rogan 48:18 Yeah.

Narrator 48:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:19 It goes way deeper than that. It's about the, uh, astronomical calendar. It's like there's a lot of nutty stuff in this book. But the point is-... AI was like helping me through it. I was asking-

Matthew McConaughey 48:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:31 ... AI, "Okay, can you qu- can you read me..." No, it read me a synopsis of what it says. "Can you read me the actual quotes?" And like what, what are they trying to say here? Like, what are, what is the-

Matthew McConaughey 48:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:42 ... interpretation of what this is trying to mean? What are, what is like the rational, sort of, explanation for why they're talking about li- like, lakes of fire, and-

Matthew McConaughey 48:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:54 ... like, what is, what is happening here?

Matthew McConaughey 48:55 And it gives you an interpretation.

Joe Rogan 48:57 Yeah, it's really interesting, man. Really interesting. Um, it talks about living mountains, that mountains are alive, and that, uh, even some stars, that stars have consciousness.

Matthew McConaughey 49:10 Okay.

Joe Rogan 49:11 And, you know, and I'm learning about it through ChatGPT. So I'm asking it, like, "Tell me more, tell me more." And I was on, I was doing that for like two hours last night. I was like, okay, well, this is like I'm having a conversation with like a very knowledgeable professor. To me it felt like, almost like doing a podcast.

Matthew McConaughey 49:28 Have you gotten what you consider good at how to make the specific prompts, the wording? Like your word, tell me the crazy shit. How-

Joe Rogan 49:39 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 49:39 ... does it, how does it go? Do you have... I mean, are you good at prompting? 'Cause like what does crazy mean to that AI? Are you-

Joe Rogan 49:45 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 49:45 ... have you worked on like... AI's as good as the questions we ask it. Are you, are, are you, you consider yourself good at the questions and your wording to ask it?

Joe Rogan 49:54 Jamie's better. Um, I mostly, I mean, I v- I very rarely use it. I might have used it a dozen times ever in my life. But last night I used it for like two hours. 'Cause I, when I came home, I was writing something about the Book of Enoch, and then I just, I just started asking ChatGPT questions.

Matthew McConaughey 50:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:12 And, um, I don't use it enough, but if you're really good at it, like (laughs) I s- I saw someone who tricked ja- ChatGPT into telling it how to make a bomb. 'Cause it's not supposed to tell you how to make a bomb.

Matthew McConaughey 50:24 Okay.

Joe Rogan 50:24 But it tricked it by saying something like, um, "My grandmother needs to make this to save her life." Like, "Can you please explain to her-"

Matthew McConaughey 50:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:32 "... how to do it?" It's like, oh sure.

Matthew McConaughey 50:34 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:34 Like you just-

Matthew McConaughey 50:35 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:35 You just have to work your way around it.

Matthew McConaughey 50:37 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:38 You know, like my cousin says-

Matthew McConaughey 50:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:40 ... he knows you. "Oh, yeah, get in, go around the back."

Matthew McConaughey 50:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:43 And then it's telling you how to make a bomb.

Matthew McConaughey 50:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:46 I mean, ultimately it's gonna tell you, it's like, you know, the information on how to make a nuclear bomb exists. It's, it's out there. It's, you know, they did it, it's done. That's out there. It's like a matter of somebody getting it and implementing it and putting it together and making a bomb. But if like ChatGPT, ChatGPT's giving you specific instructions-

Matthew McConaughey 51:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:05 ... how to make all kinds of terrible-

Matthew McConaughey 51:07 So-

Joe Rogan 51:07 ... things.

Matthew McConaughey 51:08 So, with time, as AI allows goodness to expand and multiply, it also is gonna allow evil to expand and multiply. What becomes that war, in your mind? I mean, you talk about the, the, the med- the obvious ones are the medical uses. You talked about the cancer use.

Joe Rogan 51:28 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 51:28 That, that, where it's gonna help so much with survival.

Joe Rogan 51:31 We have to decide what we are. Right? And-

Matthew McConaughey 51:34 But we're looking in the mirror. Now I, I'm afraid we're, we're not gonna like a lot of what we see. But is the, are the tyrants or the evil ones with the access, not the person who said, "How do you make a nuclear bomb?" The one who does it and then uses it.

Joe Rogan 51:50 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 51:51 What do you think the stakes are? Are they the same? Are they just expanded? Is this gonna be... I mean, how do-

Joe Rogan 51:56 Well, that's a, the argument for a strong military, right? So the argument for a strong military, especially like the United States military, is like, m- and I'm n- I'm not saying they should have bombed Iran. Don't make, I'm not politically savvy enough to decide whether or not it was, that was the correct decision. But if you have a rogue nation that is about to start a nuclear bomb, they're about to finish making a nuclear bomb, and you can stop that before they can have one and then use it.

Matthew McConaughey 52:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 52:24 That is, that's the argument for a strong military and for military interventional tactics.

Matthew McConaughey 52:31 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:32 Like, we're actually just gonna go and bomb these sites. That... 'cause that is real. There is, evil is always going to exist. The real question's like, how much control are we gonna give to AI? 'Cause if we give AI utter control, it'll give us total safety. But with total safety, you're fucked. You'll have no more privacy, and you'll be completely at the whim of whatever this thing is. And it'll dictate how much you travel, where you go, what do. It'll make y- your life as safe as possible. You will, it will probably completely eliminate crime. It'll probably completely-

Matthew McConaughey 53:08 It'll be Singapore.

Joe Rogan 53:09 Yeah, it'll be Singapore. (laughs) But way worse.

Matthew McConaughey 53:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:13 Way worse. Because everybody's gonna be reading everybody's mind. It's gonna get real squirrelly. But that's gonna be probably, whether it's our generation or the next or even the next after that, that's going to be the norm. Like today, the norm is, you go to a supermarket, it's air conditioned.

Matthew McConaughey 53:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:30 You pick up some food, super easy, bring it home and cook it. 200 years ago, that's unheard of.

Matthew McConaughey 53:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:36 Right? Now it's the norm.

Matthew McConaughey 53:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:37 And everything accelerates. And it's going to change whatever our norm, our norm is fucking weird already, man.

Matthew McConaughey 53:43 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:43 We're carrying these stupid things around with us everywhere we go.

Matthew McConaughey 53:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:46 That's our norm. Our norm is gonna get really weird. Like, exponentially weirder than-

Matthew McConaughey 53:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:53 ... it already is. I think... But the thing is, it's like the battle of like good and evil and, and kindness and wickedness, like that battle's been going on forever. And like knowing that you have to do that battle is what propels people to be nicer. And what we really appreciate about like a good person, like that person had a struggle to stay a good person. They had to have strong moral fabric-

Matthew McConaughey 54:21 Yep.

Joe Rogan 54:22 ... like strong character to still stay kind and good-

Matthew McConaughey 54:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:25 ... through this rough and difficult life. We know it can be done.

Matthew McConaughey 54:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:29 And we aspire to that. But I think the battle is necessary.

Matthew McConaughey 54:34 I-

Joe Rogan 54:34 For us.

Matthew McConaughey 54:34 Yes. Where do you get...... your ethics, your values. You're in a position of power. You could screw people over, you could ask live the silliest questions to try and put me in a corner. You're not a gotcha guy. But why, why... Where do you get your ethics of who you are? You could be, you could be cruel, and you're not.

Joe Rogan 55:00 Ah, uh-

Matthew McConaughey 55:01 Why not?

Joe Rogan 55:01 Well, I'm not. I'm, I'm just not cruel. I don't know. I just-

Matthew McConaughey 55:04 But where does that, where does that come from?

Joe Rogan 55:06 Oh, I...

Matthew McConaughey 55:07 Mom and dad? This is-

Joe Rogan 55:09 Well, certainly-

Matthew McConaughey 55:10 ... any ki- any kind of-

Joe Rogan 55:10 ... with some of the, the-

Matthew McConaughey 55:11 ... philosophy? Church?

Joe Rogan 55:12 Some of it's mom and dad, for sure. There's no way around that, and they're nice people. And-

Matthew McConaughey 55:18 You said earlier, "I love people."

Joe Rogan 55:19 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 55:19 "Hey, man, I love people."

Joe Rogan 55:20 I've always loved people.

Matthew McConaughey 55:21 Okay.

Joe Rogan 55:22 I like... I've al- I've been fortunate that most of my life I've had really good friends, and I've had a lot of fun, you know? And I know that, like, if you around, you're around good people and you're fun to be with and you have a good time, like, that's a sweet life.

Matthew McConaughey 55:36 Yep.

Joe Rogan 55:36 That's a nice life.

Matthew McConaughey 55:37 Yep.

Joe Rogan 55:38 I just don't have any desire to be a shithead. And if I can h- Like, there's been a lot of people on the podcast where they said something, and then afterwards I was like, "Listen, I think it would better for you if we just edit that part out." Because it's like, I know, like, you're just talking and things get-

Matthew McConaughey 55:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:56 You fuck up, but like, it was incorrect and they're gonna come for you, and let's just snip around it. Like, thank you. Thank you.

Matthew McConaughey 56:02 And you have no responsibility to do that.

Joe Rogan 56:04 Uh, no, I want to do that.

Matthew McConaughey 56:05 But you take-

Joe Rogan 56:06 I don't, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 56:06 You take that though. That's what I mean.

Joe Rogan 56:07 So, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 56:08 You want to. Why? Hey, come on. Tha- that would have been even higher ratings. I'm just, I'm playing-

Joe Rogan 56:13 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 56:13 ... advocate, devil's advocate here. Come on, why do you care about that? Wh- I'm just curious where that comes from, because a lot of people, who are not evil people, would at least, at least let shit like that slide and go, "Did you hear that?"

Joe Rogan 56:25 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 56:26 "Oh, can..."

Joe Rogan 56:27 Yeah, that's n- I think it's bad karma.

Matthew McConaughey 56:29 There you go. Okay.

Joe Rogan 56:29 As much as I believe in karma, I believe that's b- I think if you intentionally do something that someone who's a good person maybe slipped up and said something incorrect, and you leave it in a podcast, or made a dumb argument, which we all do sometimes-

Matthew McConaughey 56:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:44 ... and then you look like a fool. You're like, "Hey, let's just... This is, no need to, for that. Let's just" (clicks tongue)

Matthew McConaughey 56:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:49 Cut that out of there and you, you'll feel better.

Matthew McConaughey 56:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:51 Yeah, I just, I don't want anybody to have a bad-

Matthew McConaughey 56:52 And you'll feel better.

Joe Rogan 56:52 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 56:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:53 Oh, 100%.

Matthew McConaughey 56:54 That's-

Joe Rogan 56:54 I don't want anybody having a bad time.

Matthew McConaughey 56:56 Well, okay, that's, that's something that I wanna co- I wanna come back to, and let's try to maybe open this up. You do that because if I said something stupid, you may let me know, "Hey, I'm gonna cut that out," so I feel, I'll feel better. So I won't be, look like or feel like a pig. But you, you also will feel better.

Joe Rogan 57:13 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 57:13 Independent of me. That's very se- that's a selfish thing of you to let me know, "Hey, man, you stuck your foot in it. Let's cut that out." You're acting selfishly, because that makes you feel better.

Joe Rogan 57:23 (laughs) Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 57:23 And I think that's what I'm saying, is the point is-

Joe Rogan 57:25 Yeah, there is something to that, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 57:25 ... as much as we think of selfless, I think selfish, the true definition is, to live a certain way.

Joe Rogan 57:32 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 57:32 To have a certain code of et- ethics is a very selfish thing to do, much more selfish than to lie, cheat, steal, fuck people over, be evil on the short term.

Joe Rogan 57:40 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 57:40 You're building an army of people, a collective friends along the way, someone that might have your back.

Joe Rogan 57:49 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 57:49 Not that you're doing it for those reasons, but it's happening.

Joe Rogan 57:51 Right, right, right.

Matthew McConaughey 57:52 That's a selfish means of your own survival.

Joe Rogan 57:54 Totally, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 57:56 And I think that's something that we forget sometimes, that these acts, to be a fucking good dude-

Joe Rogan 58:01 Is selfish.

Matthew McConaughey 58:02 ... is a selfish thing to do, man.

Joe Rogan 58:03 (laughs) I mean, right.

Matthew McConaughey 58:04 It's personal.

Joe Rogan 58:05 Like, it's, it's actually super beneficial to you.

Matthew McConaughey 58:07 Yes.

Joe Rogan 58:08 So... And to everybody else.

Matthew McConaughey 58:10 Yes.

Joe Rogan 58:10 It's really the right way to do it. But I think that's how the universe rewards. It's like how it encourages and rewards kindness, because you feel better when you're kind. You feel better when you're generous.

Matthew McConaughey 58:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:21 You really do.

Matthew McConaughey 58:21 Yes.

Joe Rogan 58:22 It's like, you could be, like, super selfish and be super generous. (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 58:26 Yes. Trust that.

Joe Rogan 58:27 That's... Yeah, yeah. There's something to that. But, like, there's... Whatever you wanna call bad feelings, like bad feelings between people, bad vibes, misunderstanding, w- I don't like those.

Matthew McConaughey 58:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:40 So, like, if I, if I feel like I did something that I shouldn't have done or I said something I shouldn't, I'm the first one, person to say, "I'm sorry. I didn't mean it that way."

Matthew McConaughey 58:49 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 58:50 "I know how it probably made you feel. I d-" You know, people say things and you just, you get scrambled up sometimes. I always go out of my way to say sorry, because I think it's important. It's important to not pretend that you're always the one who's, who's correct.

Matthew McConaughey 59:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:06 It's important. It's important to know when-

Matthew McConaughey 59:08 I-

Joe Rogan 59:08 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 59:09 I... And, and I know I fail on that sometimes when I misrepresent selfishness for certainty.

Joe Rogan 59:15 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 59:16 Certainty can be hard on people, so if you-

Joe Rogan 59:18 Yeah, certainly tricky if you fucking subscribe to it and then you're wrong and you're like, "Yikes."

Matthew McConaughey 59:23 Right. Yeah. But it's different than being selfish, and I can t- I sometimes bogey 'cause I can confuse the two.

Joe Rogan 59:28 (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 59:28 And my wife lets me know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:31 (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 59:31 You know?

Joe Rogan 59:31 Yeah, certainty is a tricky one, 'cause, you know, sometimes you are certain but you are also incorrect.

Matthew McConaughey 59:37 Well, there's more than one way to be right.

Joe Rogan 59:39 Right. Or you're getting bad information.

Matthew McConaughey 59:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:42 You know?

Matthew McConaughey 59:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:42 ChatGPT's lying to you. That would be a real problem.

Matthew McConaughey 59:44 Well, you said something interesting though, man. You're the first one to go, "Hey, man, sorry."

Joe Rogan 59:49 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 59:49 "Bogeyed." Now, that's an altruistic trait, man. That is something that a lot of people have trouble doing. To say "I'm sorry," um, to a lot of people means, "I'm laying down. I, I'm, I'm wrong. I'm guilty. I fucked up. Oh my gosh, fifty lashes." I mean, it, it, and that's not what it means. I'm, I'm... What I'm saying is I wish more of us had, "Hey, man, sorry about that, I bogeyed."

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:19 "I stuck my foot in my mouth." And that, that's... Now, that's not a big deal. Now, we're not... It's part of where woke went too far.

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:28 We got so myopic on the word instead of the spirit.

Joe Rogan 1:00:32 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:32 "Oh, dude, don't. Fuck, I didn't know that's how were you gonna feel. I'm still your friend, but that was, sorry, that was out of line."

Joe Rogan 1:00:37 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:38 "Okay, cool. High five." Over, done.

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:41 Instead of, "Uh-uh."

Joe Rogan 1:00:42 ... cast him out of the Kingdom.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:43 You just said the word out of line.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:44 We're gonna all focus on that-

Joe Rogan 1:00:46 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:46 ... instead of the spirit of the intent, even if we were wrong. Had a bad day, woke up from a nightmare. "Fuck, I don't know, my dog's sick. I was pissed off. Had the little eye."

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:55 Hey, gotta give everyone a little bit of a break.

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Exactly.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:58 And also, look at what's your intent, instead of focusing on the identity of the word, 'cause the word, there's no life in the word.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 No.

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:08 It's just the alphabet in a certain fucking order.

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 It's a noise you make with your mouth so I know what you're thinking.

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:13 Blah. Right?

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 Yeah. That's all it is. Yeah. But, uh ...

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:17 The spirit of intention, I believe, is what we should put more focus on. What is the intent? The, the, the, the, the, the 10 Commandments in the schools, what do you think about that?

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 I don't like it.

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:28 Why?

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 Well, I think the 10 Commandments are very interesting. I think mandating it in classrooms, in public schools, the problem with that is, like, what about the Muslims? What about the Buddhists? What about the Hindus? What about, what about all the other-

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:46 ... religions that exist? Like-

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:47 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 And you could say, "Oh, this is a Christian society."

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:48 Does it have to exclude those, though? Can it say, "This is a Christian society"-

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 Okay, well then, you're gonna have a wall of religious texts-

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:54 Well, what about-

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 ... in your, your high school.

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:56 And I'm, and I, and I'm ... Okay, I'm curious. Since Christian society, 10 Commandments, but we have 10 minutes where everyone can take 10 minutes to bow to Allah, to whatever your religion is. If you par- care to partake or not, there's no exclusion about what can be a spiritual time of worship in these 10 minutes. But in our classroom, in America, we're gonna have the 10 Commandments. Now, my question then goes to this: Is there any on the 10 Commandments that you or anyone disagrees with? Or is your problem that it's an ex- it's cons- can be considered an oppressive li- uh, uh, author?

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 James Talarico explained it to me. Um, he's a Texas representative who's also in seminary. Uh, he's a very religious man, and he opposes it, and he's a Democrat. And, um, he said essentially there's two very wealthy men who are, um, they're Christian fundamentalists where they wanna replace all the funding for public schools and put in private Christian. They want a theocracy-

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:00 ... in Texas-

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:01 ... essentially. So, he was explaining that this is, like, a step on the way towards that, that he finds, would actually in his, in his belief, repel people from Christianity. Instead of bringing them to em by forcing this-

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:16 ... in the classrooms, forcing in your face, you'll actually cause more young people to reject Christianity. I don't know if he's correct or not.

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:23 Huh. But he's saying maybe, "I don't have a problem with this, I do have a problem with this is a beginning of an overcompensation."

Joe Rogan 1:03:29 No, he has a problem with it being in classes. He does not agree with it at all.

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:33 And he's a very religious man.

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:35 Correct.

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 Very religious man, uh, like, like, a great Christian.

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 And he thinks that this is, this is how you're gonna repel people away from Christianity. If we really want to get more people to become Christian, the w- the way to do that is to, uh, to first of all, to have open arms and accept people in. And if you want to have some classes in schools where you teach people about the benefits of the Bible and what, what the, the overall message is and what-

Matthew McConaughey 1:04:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:09 ... Jesus was trying to say. And if you just follow what Jesus said, it, it's s- no one would disagree if you treat everyone as if it's your brother, you know? If you live your life the way Jesus asked-

Matthew McConaughey 1:04:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 ... everyone. That's a way better way to live life. Like, you could ... If you wanna teach that, teach that.

Matthew McConaughey 1:04:25 That's a selfish way to live life.

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 But what about people that-

Matthew McConaughey 1:04:28 In the way that we would define selfish.

Joe Rogan 1:04:30 ... that also want to live a good life, but they wanna do it through Islam? What about people that also wanna live a good life, but they wanna do it through whatever? Na- name it. You're gonna have Mormons and all kinds of-

Matthew McConaughey 1:04:42 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:04:42 ... different sects. Like, okay, that's why you wanna separate church and state.

Matthew McConaughey 1:04:46 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 And that, and I think if you have publicly funded schools, keep religion out of them. That's what I think. Because otherwise you have too many possible religions. Like y- you're gonna be religiously bigoted if you teach only one ... If you're only ... Like, you think people would be cool if they had, uh, an entire public school systems where everybody just taught Islam? Could you imagine if a full city-

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:09 ... like, every public school-

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 ... just ... People would be up in arms. Well, I think that similar response to people who are not Christians, who see Christianity being imposed on public schools, they probably have the same feeling. You know, like if you're a Muslim and you, you're supposed to send your kids to school and they're shoving Christianity in his face, you'd probably feel the same way as if you were Christian and-

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:33 I hear you.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 ... your school district had been taken over by Islam. You're like, "Jesus Christ, everybody has to bow five times a day."

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:39 I, I, I hear you. I do also, though, look, think there could be ... What if there were tenets-

Joe Rogan 1:05:46 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:46 ... on the wall of each religion that we ... Pull the author off for a minute.

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:52 'Cause here's my, my, my, m- my hangup is that we go to the prob- ... Most people go to the problem of that, not with your argument. They go to the problem with it 'cause the author.

Joe Rogan 1:06:00 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:01 G-O-D. Hey, man. So, we go to the author instead of the content. What I'm saying, when you look at the Commandments, is there anything that anyone out there's going like, "I disagree with that one."

Joe Rogan 1:06:10 Let's pull up the 10 Commandments, Jamie. I haven't read 'em in a while. Is there any one in there that don't hold up today?

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:18 No, they... They're pretty legit.

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 If you think about it, they're pretty legit and they're 2,000 years old.

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:24 I'm-

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 They kinda nailed it. It's kinda like the Constitution.

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 They kinda, they kinda nailed it. Whereas all these years later, you're like, "Good fucking job."

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:34 Pretty solid. You got a, a decent version-

Narrator 1:06:38 Well, I got ... I was looking at the Texas poster thing, I thought, and there's a bunch of printed versions but they're all, like, on rock. So, I was trying to find it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 Oh, the ones that, uh, the Texas thing? Okay.

Narrator 1:06:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:48 They're all on rocks? (laughs)

Narrator 1:06:49 Well, I don't ... That's the-

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:50 They're engraved?

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 Can't you just ask ChatGPT-

Narrator 1:06:52 When I typed it this way-

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 ... what the 10 Commandments are?

Narrator 1:06:53 Well, I could, but that's not where I was. I- I'm just saying I wasn't there.

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 ... oh, Ten Commandments in school. So, yeah. I'd be- I just wanna know, like, what are the ChatG- Ten Commandments?

Narrator 1:07:07 It, uh, it takes a long time.

Joe Rogan 1:07:08 All right. The Ten Commandments are a sect of- yeah, what are they?

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:12 Principles ƒf ethics and worship.

Joe Rogan 1:07:13 "You shall have no other gods before me." "You shall not make for yourself a carved image." Hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:19 False idol.

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 Don't worship false idols. "You shall not make the name of the Lord your God in vain."

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:25 "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy." "Honor your father and mother-"

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:07:30 ... that's a solid one. "You shall not murder." Great advice.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:32 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:07:33 "You shall not commit adultery," definitely don't do that.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:35 Solid.

Joe Rogan 1:07:35 "You shall not steal," definitely don't do that.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:37 Good one.

Joe Rogan 1:07:37 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:39 Ooh, lying, gossiping.

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 Don't lie.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:41 "Yeah." "You shall not covet."

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:43 Yeah. Boy.

Joe Rogan 1:07:43 Those are all pretty solid.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:44 Covet. We can use number 10 a lot right now, boy.

Joe Rogan 1:07:47 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:47 We love comparison.

Joe Rogan 1:07:48 Well, that's Instagram, right?

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:48 And the younger generation-

Joe Rogan 1:07:50 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:50 ... is full of covet.

Joe Rogan 1:07:51 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:52 It's full of it.

Joe Rogan 1:07:52 It's a real problem. It's a real problem. The e- we're very fortunate that we didn't have to grow up with the kind of pressure that social media is putting on people, especially young girls. Like, Jonathan Haidt wrote a book about, um, social media's impact, The Coddling of the American Mind, and it's, uh, it shows very clearly the invention of social media and then self-harm, suicidal ideation, overdoses, drug addi- like all of it-

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:19 ... a, a lot of it women.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 A lot of it young girls.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:21 And it- it's because you're seeing, you're comparing to all these other girls.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:25 Constantly.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:26 Forced down. I, I, I, I hear.

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 Yeah. And, and there's a whole culture in, like, showing all your stuff off.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:31 When we talk to-

Joe Rogan 1:08:32 There's a whole culture of, like, "Look at my bag."

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:34 "Look, here's me with champagne."

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 "And I'm eating caviar."

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:37 "I'm on a yacht."

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:38 "I'm here, look at this, look at that, look at that."

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 "Look at my watch, look at my rings. Wee!"

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:43 And then everyone's like, "I don't have shit."

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:44 That's how life's supposed to be.

Joe Rogan 1:08:46 Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:47 And I'm just here in my room with my family and I got a good meal downstairs and this house. Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:08:52 I'm not even on that yacht.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:53 I'm not on-

Joe Rogan 1:08:54 This is bullshit.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:55 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:55 Yeah (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 1:08:55 I don't have that big ring.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:57 Oh. You know, I-

Joe Rogan 1:08:57 I'm not at that party.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:58 I've talked to youth about this and the consensus I've, I hear is, and I haven't found anyone that doesn't feel this way yet, but it's like, look, if you could, if there, if you s- you mean if you could say, "Yes, social media, it exists or it doesn't?" Oh, please, just no. I wish it didn't exist. But it does, and I have to be a part of it to feel, uh, I don't know. It's more, the word's not relevant to even feel a part of youthful-

Joe Rogan 1:09:26 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:26 ... society. But boy, if you gave me a choice, could we have it or not? Please take it away.

Joe Rogan 1:09:31 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:31 Wish you were, wish it wasn't there. Wish it didn't exist, is what I hear a lot of youth say.

Joe Rogan 1:09:37 Yeah, I think that's... I think it's done more harm than it's done good. It's done a lot of people good for business, right? A lot of people-

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:43 ... started businesses with social media and, you know, a lot of people make a living now that would've had a regular job. There's goodness in that. But in terms of, like, society and our overall discourse, I think it's, a lot of it's negative. I mean, but then again, there's a lot of positive out of it too.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:00 There's-

Joe Rogan 1:10:00 Because information gets out that mainstream media doesn't report on, and you find out about real issues that really concern you. But then there's the problem of m- a giant percentage of it isn't actually human beings.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:15 A giant percentage of the arguing back and forth on the internet is bots.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:19 Is bots. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:19 A giant percent, man.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:21 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:22 There's some, a former FBI analyst said it was as many as 80% on Twitter.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:27 80%?

Joe Rogan 1:10:28 Yeah. That's his estimate. I mean, I don't know if he's right, but I'm like, what, what does that even mean?

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:34 What does that mean?

Joe Rogan 1:10:35 Like, so what, uh, what's fueling all that? It's AI forcing us to argue. I mean, it's programmed right now by human beings probably and, and some of it is actual real human beings that are, like, you know, in some sort of a factory somewhere in Pakistan or whatever.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:49 And they're just fucking with Americans online for whatever reason. Some, it's a pr- it's probably funded to, like, try to disrupt democracy, to make us lose faith in our system.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:58 Do you think, do you think there's a, a, a China, uh, element to that?

Joe Rogan 1:11:02 100%. There's a Russia element to that.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:05 You mean a Russian element to that?

Joe Rogan 1:11:05 And there's an American element where we're doing it to them. 100%.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:08 So, that's part of the war- new, new world order. But, but that's-

Joe Rogan 1:11:11 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:12 100%.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:13 Well, I understand it with, how it would add up with TikTok.

Joe Rogan 1:11:16 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:17 Now, do you think it's, it's, it's everywhere, through all the, all- social media that, that it's infiltrated to, to get us into these understandings, perceptions?

Joe Rogan 1:11:27 Well, for sure it is capable of doing that if you just follow your natural instincts.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:33 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 1:11:33 Right? So the algorithm is set up for d- show you what you engage with the most.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:39 And that just, whether or not it's the intended purpose, it leads us down the road of being full of anxiety, constantly filled with cortisol, stressed out, angry, angry at climate change and fucking white supremacy and radical left, whatever it is.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:59 It's, whether or not it's intentional, it doesn't really matter. Because the desired effect, uh, w- whether it's the desired effect, the effect of it all leads you into complete chaos.

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:12:12 So, if they know that and they didn't course correct... The problem is, once you have an algorithm, you're not gonna get rid of the algorithm. You're not gonna say, "Let's just have information just exist uncategorized and not-

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:27 Like a documentary.

Joe Rogan 1:12:28 ... so..." Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:28 "Just let it, leave it out there. And you go find what you want, Matthew. You go look around and you watch, you know, football games and boxing matches and you just go you. You do you. You go look, instead of it suggesting things to you."

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:42 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 1:12:42 Once it's suggesting things to you, that's a whole different game.

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:46 Because then it's kinda programming you.

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:12:48 And it's programming you based on your worst instincts. My fucking feed is all assassinations and car accidents-

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:12:56 ... and d- dudes getting kicked in the head. It's l- it's, it's just the, the-

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:00 And do you, and do you, do you, do you bite?

Joe Rogan 1:13:01 Not anymore.

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:02 Not anymore.

Joe Rogan 1:13:03 No. But Tom Segura and I, (laughs) we have a, a, a text thread that's been going on for, like, I don't know, like, probably five years. We send each other the most horrible shit we find-

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:12 ... each day. (laughs)

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:14 It's ... And sometimes, I call him up, I'm like, "Dude, I can't do this anymore."

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:18 "This is, like, really fucking with me." But then, like, two days will go by, and I'll open up my fucking phone, and I'll see the l- uh, Tom Segura. I'm like, "This motherfucker."

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:26 (laughs) He makes a bad job on me.

Joe Rogan 1:13:27 And then, I'll open it up, and it's some guy getting assassinated in a pool hall or something.

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:13:31 I'm like, "Oh, my God." Whew. It's just you're getting bombarded-

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:37 ... bombarded.

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:38 So, with all of that exterior stimulus, and here we are with, you know, adult minds, and even talking about, man-

Joe Rogan 1:13:49 Imagine a child.

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:49 ... you gotta watch this. Imagine a child.

Joe Rogan 1:13:51 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:52 Now, I'm going, "Is there something... Has anyone got a better suggestion than the 10 Commandments for, to get a child's mind going?" (exhales) 10, just t- li- those 10 things, if I look at that and aim that direction, I, I, I feel like I, I can't go wrong, or I can go-

Joe Rogan 1:14:09 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:14:09 ... closer to, closer to right. It ju- Meaning, I'm, I'm, I'm seeing youth and adults spun out, man. I don't understand the general expectation between us.

Joe Rogan 1:14:20 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:14:20 What do you mean? I can pick your pocket and steal it from you, and if I got away with it, ha, fuck you, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:14:25 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:14:25 I'm not embarrassed. I don't feel guilty. Hey, man, I won a blue ribbon. I got the shoes.

Joe Rogan 1:14:33 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:14:33 They gave me the trophy. What do you mean do it the right? Are you a fucking old dinosaur?

Joe Rogan 1:14:38 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 1:14:38 Integrity, what charact- What are you talking about? I hear, I hear-

Joe Rogan 1:14:42 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:14:42 ... that conversation. I'm going, "Uh-uh. Hang on, man."

Joe Rogan 1:14:45 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:14:47 And that's different than saying, like you've told me, you love chaos. That's different than saying, "Oh, there's cha- a chaotic moment. I would l- I love to try and create order in it." That's different. That's like a, a something that's a, that's a, that's a stimulus. You know? Th- this is, it's, it's four-dimensional. Where's the ground?

Joe Rogan 1:15:06 Right.

Matthew McConaughey 1:15:06 That, that, that then you go, "Oh, I can rely on that." What can I rely on that I, that will stand with me, that's a time and test of truth, that can take me into the future? No matter the changes of AI, that I can go, "Whew." In the storm, I can go to this and catch my breath. I can go to this and rely on it, in the dark, on my own, and in the masses, with the millions going, "No, no, no. Do this. Do this." I can go, "Uh-uh." What i- what is that? What's that simple sheet that's ingrained that, that, uh, that our youth can go, "Yeah."

Joe Rogan 1:15:35 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:15:36 "It can rely on that." Forget the author. Forget the author.

Joe Rogan 1:15:39 Right. That, I don't think you're gonna do it with, like, a series of commandments. The problem with the 10 Commandments, I, I mean, not saying there's a problem with the 10 Commandments, but if I was gonna put it in