Joe Rogan Experience #2381 - Taylor Kitsch

Narrator 0:00 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Taylor Kitsch 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) No. 85?

Joe Rogan 0:14 Yeah. Drop some headphones on, no trouble.

Taylor Kitsch 0:15 Damn.

Joe Rogan 0:16 Yeah, you have to... Well, see, if you- if you're gonna shoot something at 45, you really wanna be comfortable at twice that.

Taylor Kitsch 0:23 Okay.

Joe Rogan 0:23 So I'll shoot 90, I'll shoot 100 yards.

Taylor Kitsch 0:26 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 0:26 Yeah. Yeah, because that way-

Taylor Kitsch 0:29 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 0:29 ... when you get into 40 it seems normal.

Taylor Kitsch 0:30 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 0:31 It seems easy.

Taylor Kitsch 0:31 It's the easy day.

Joe Rogan 0:32 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 0:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:33 It's all just about, like, effective distance.

Taylor Kitsch 0:35 Would you take a shot at 85?

Joe Rogan 0:36 No.

Taylor Kitsch 0:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:37 No, no, no, no, no.

Taylor Kitsch 0:38 That's far.

Joe Rogan 0:39 You might take a follow-up shot. Like if you know-

Taylor Kitsch 0:41 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:42 ... the animal's already gonna go down.

Taylor Kitsch 0:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:44 And you can... If you can, you should always get a second shot on them.

Taylor Kitsch 0:47 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:47 So I'll take a second shot at 85, but I would never-

Taylor Kitsch 0:50 Have you had one and- and it just fucking ran, just gone?

Joe Rogan 0:54 Oh, yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 0:55 Like, 200, 300 yards?

Joe Rogan 0:58 What do you mean? Like, like you shoot it-

Taylor Kitsch 0:59 Like, if you shoot it and you know how to-

Joe Rogan 1:00 Oh, if you hit it?

Taylor Kitsch 1:00 Yeah, hit it and it just goes into the bush and you gotta track it, find it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04 Yeah, you can track them though. They generally-

Taylor Kitsch 1:05 Yeah, just leaking all over the place.

Joe Rogan 1:07 Yeah, blood trails.

Taylor Kitsch 1:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08 Especially if you use a large mechanical broadhead.

Taylor Kitsch 1:11 So I've shot one deer in my life. And, uh, it was after Lone, and I was on Luttrell's-

Joe Rogan 1:18 After Lone Survivor?

Taylor Kitsch 1:19 Yeah. And I was on with Luttrell and a couple other seals on his ranch. And, um, you know, you're surrounded by seals. So it's like, he's like, "Let's get you one." I'm like, "Yeah, let's go." And, uh, so we're on the ranch. Have you been there?

Joe Rogan 1:34 No.

Taylor Kitsch 1:35 Oh, it's great. And, uh, I th- I don't know how many acres, but he had, used to have, like, giraffes on the ranch and shit. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:42 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 1:42 It was crazy. Uh, you would literally just be out there and there's a couple giraffes. And, uh, I think they're- they've- they're gone now. But we pull into this, like, opening and he's like, "There's gonna be some deer on the right." Lo and behold, couple deer. He's like, "Okay, take that one." Pull out the M4. Uh, we're pretty far but not crazy. And I'm nervous, man. Like, of- of course I've trained with the M4 and for Lone and all this stuff, but I've never, like, shot-shot. And so I hit it and he's like, "Fucking great shot. Let's- let's roll up." Roll up, no deer. And you can hear it though.

Joe Rogan 2:24 Ooh.

Taylor Kitsch 2:24 And it's like, wah, just losing his fucking mind.

Joe Rogan 2:29 Oh, no.

Taylor Kitsch 2:29 And I'm like, "Oh, fuck." And so the other seal, he's like, "Let's go." So we walk and walk and walk and finally get around this corner. And we have to put him down with a pistol. And I was like...

Joe Rogan 2:43 Why'd you have to put him down with a pistol?

Taylor Kitsch 2:45 Just 'cause we walked right up on it.

Joe Rogan 2:47 Oh.

Taylor Kitsch 2:47 And it was...

Joe Rogan 2:48 Just dying.

Taylor Kitsch 2:48 Yeah. And so I was just like, "Okay, this is part of it."

Joe Rogan 2:54 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 2:54 Um, and then we, you know, ate it and all that kind of stuff. But it was, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:58 That's the good part.

Taylor Kitsch 2:59 Yeah, it really is.

Joe Rogan 3:00 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 3:00 Um, but that was my one experience. But I did, I did go, uh, with my bro loves hunting. And, uh, we went out in Montana and there's, on a- on a friend's ranch and into the back country, and he was bow, and I love tracking animals for photography. So it's the same thing. Watching the wind, um, getting up fucking before light hits, just getting deep. You're way up there too.

Joe Rogan 3:26 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 3:27 Calling, all that kind of stuff. And, uh... (laughs) It's just so fun, and once you get in tight, your adrenaline's just buzzing. And we had eyes on this, like, big boy and, uh, so then I'm doing the... He's like working his way up the mountain, up this, uh, pass, and I'm doing the antlers against the tree and then the antlers and getting it angry, getting it worked up and it starts bugling even more. And you're like... I'm not even taking the shot. And I'm to Mike, "This is fucking legit."

Joe Rogan 3:59 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 4:00 And he, like, he pulls his fucking mask down and he's, like, getting into it. I see him, like, army crawling up there. Missed. But, um-

Joe Rogan 4:09 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 4:09 ... we had a blast. It's more of, like, a bonding experience, man, than anything for us. But yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:15 It's a very intense experience, especially elk-

Taylor Kitsch 4:17 It really is.

Joe Rogan 4:17 ... because they- they scream. And the-

Taylor Kitsch 4:19 Truly.

Joe Rogan 4:19 ... the sound, like, gives you goosebumps.

Taylor Kitsch 4:22 It does.

Joe Rogan 4:22 Especially when you're close to them.

Taylor Kitsch 4:23 Yeah. And it just goes through your body.

Joe Rogan 4:26 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 4:26 It shakes you.

Joe Rogan 4:27 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 4:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:28 Yeah, there's nothing like elk.

Taylor Kitsch 4:30 I know. I know.

Joe Rogan 4:31 It's, it's really fun.

Taylor Kitsch 4:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:32 But it takes a lot of work.

Taylor Kitsch 4:34 It is... You earn it.

Joe Rogan 4:36 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 4:36 It's a different hunt, right?

Joe Rogan 4:38 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 4:38 Than just rifle. It's just... Rifle up there in, at least in that area, it's like sometimes your- your hunt's under an hour.

Joe Rogan 4:46 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 4:47 You know? With bow, you're in one.

Joe Rogan 4:50 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 4:50 You're... This is days possibly, you know?

Joe Rogan 4:53 Oh, for sure.

Taylor Kitsch 4:53 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:53 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 4:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:54 Especially if you wanna get within 50.

Taylor Kitsch 4:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:57 And then if it wins or lose.

Taylor Kitsch 4:57 That's the magic. Yes.

Joe Rogan 4:59 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 4:59 Yes. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:00 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 5:01 Throwing up the grass, checking it all the time.

Joe Rogan 5:04 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 5:04 Fuck, it's so fun.

Joe Rogan 5:06 You live in Montana now?

Taylor Kitsch 5:07 I do, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:08 How long you been out there?

Taylor Kitsch 5:09 Five... Just over five years now. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:13 That's awesome. What made you choose that?

Taylor Kitsch 5:15 Yeah, this... Man, flying into Austin. S- I was here 16 plus years, so it's just memory fucking lane. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Oh.

Taylor Kitsch 5:22 Crazy. This is where it all started, man.

Joe Rogan 5:24 Really?

Taylor Kitsch 5:24 Yeah. Like, Friday Night Lights. Um, we were like school for the deaf just down the street. Uh, land in the airport. Uh, Dillon Field was just across the airport. So, so many memories of Pete and I. We were staying at the Four Seasons, shooting the pilot. Learned to box here at Richard Lord's. Um, if you don't know this guy, he's fucking amazing.

Joe Rogan 5:48 Richard Lord?

Taylor Kitsch 5:49 Yeah, Richard Lord. There's a doc on him actually. He's up... I don't even know if he's still around. He was pretty old when- when, uh, he taught me how to box. But, um, wicked dude. Just Zen'd out. He was probably in his mid-60s, so he'd be up there now. But, um...... yeah, Pete literally was like, before we hit camera, it was like, "Hey, you wanna go box?" And I was like, "All right."

Joe Rogan 6:13 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 6:13 Fucking... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:15 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 6:16 And I loved it. I loved it. And I still box.

Joe Rogan 6:19 When you say Pete, you mean Peter Berg?

Taylor Kitsch 6:20 Pete Berg, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:21 Yeah, he loves boxing.

Taylor Kitsch 6:22 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:22 He's got his own gym in-

Taylor Kitsch 6:23 Of course.

Joe Rogan 6:23 ... L.A.

Taylor Kitsch 6:24 Yeah, yeah. Of course. I do not spar with him anymore. He's- it's- Dirty Pete is his fucking boxing name.

Joe Rogan 6:31 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 6:31 I bet you he didn't fucking tell you that, did he? (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:33 (laughs) No. Why is it Dirty Pete?

Taylor Kitsch 6:34 Because he's earned that, man. He's, uh... So, you know, you'll do body shots only, or stuff like that-

Joe Rogan 6:41 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 6:41 ... and spar, keep each other honest.

Joe Rogan 6:43 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 6:44 Um, but fuck, you get him once, it's- there's no rules.

Joe Rogan 6:49 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 6:49 There's no rules. (laughs) And it's like, you're on camera in, like, a week or something like that.

Joe Rogan 6:53 Yeah, he tried to give you a leg up. (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 6:55 Yeah, man. And then you, like, take it, and you're kinda shocked at first. It just goes from, like, two to 11 so quick.

Joe Rogan 7:03 That's funny.

Taylor Kitsch 7:03 But yeah, I like- it's the best workout.

Joe Rogan 7:05 We have a gym connected here, so last time he was here-

Taylor Kitsch 7:07 No way, here?

Joe Rogan 7:08 ... we- yeah, it's right next door, we have a big gym.

Taylor Kitsch 7:09 No shit. Smart.

Joe Rogan 7:11 So we worked out together, and cold plunged, the whole deal.

Taylor Kitsch 7:14 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:15 He gets after it.

Taylor Kitsch 7:15 He does. He does. He pushes. I mean, even when we shot, uh, American Primeval, he was, uh, you- his little garage setup, man. Cold plunge, uh, steam room, like, it's- he's gotta have it.

Joe Rogan 7:31 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 7:31 He's gotta have it for that brain of his. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:34 Yeah. American Primeval was fucking awesome, dude.

Taylor Kitsch 7:37 Thanks, man.

Joe Rogan 7:38 That show is so good.

Taylor Kitsch 7:39 Thanks.

Joe Rogan 7:39 I started wi- ri- watching it with my wife, but she's like, "Nope, gotta go." (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 7:44 No, man.

Joe Rogan 7:44 She- she can't handle-

Taylor Kitsch 7:46 It's a lot.

Joe Rogan 7:46 ... things get intense. That's a fucking inten- but also, probably super accurate.

Taylor Kitsch 7:52 Yes.

Joe Rogan 7:52 Like, one of the most accurate representations of what life was probably like-

Taylor Kitsch 7:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:56 ... in the west back then.

Taylor Kitsch 7:57 Yeah. Yeah. I learned so much on that, man. Um, I mean, living in Montana, I got to, uh, this cowgirl friend of mine who I met at that ranch, uh, had been working with this shaman just outside of Livingston, and I was telling her, I'm playing a guy that, kinda raised by Shoshone and all this, and, like, that was kinda where I hung my hat of, like, if this guy lost his family at six or seven, and then adopted or sold to the Shoshone, this is who he is. He's more Shoshone than he is white. So I started working with this shaman, uh, which was incredible, and then, um, went down to the Shoshone reservation, Wind River, worked with the elders there. It's tough, man, 'cause obviously going there, you're like (laughs) ... And they knew I was coming, but it's like, you're talking to these elders, and it's like, we meet five minutes in, and I'm like, "So, what do you- what do you guys do when you bury your wife?"

Joe Rogan 8:58 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 8:59 And you're asking these heavy, heavy questions.

Joe Rogan 9:02 Cultural questions.

Taylor Kitsch 9:03 Yes.

Joe Rogan 9:03 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 9:03 That is true meaning behind it all. So she took a long beat, and she's like, "I'll get back to you on that. I'll get back to you on that." And then I went into this other room at the school there, and this other elderly woman comes in a wheelchair, and she sits there, and she's like, "What do you wanna know?" And so we just sat there for hours, and she was incredibly transparent, and just really open. And I would take all this and go to Pete and be like, "Listen, if we're gonna- we gotta honor these guys, so let's do it right." And he was all ears. And, uh, the Shoshone was very tough to learn.

Joe Rogan 9:39 When you say, "Working with a shaman," like, what did, what did you do?

Taylor Kitsch 9:42 Yeah. So we'll do, like, two-hour sweats, um-

Joe Rogan 9:46 Like a sweat lodge?

Taylor Kitsch 9:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:47 How- how do they have that set up? Like a fire in the middle of it or something?

Taylor Kitsch 9:50 It's, yeah, so it's, uh, fire is always burning, uh, before you start the sweat, and then he'll grab river rocks from Yellowstone, uh, River, and then the fire's going, and he'll bring these rocks that are in the fire into the middle of the sweat lodge, and, uh, there's four doors to this one, and, uh, you'll talk, you'll fast the day before, and, um, you'll- he'll put the river rocks in the middle, and they're smoking hot, right? And then he brings river water from a spring or whatever, um, and then you have... You fast, and then you, uh, have your intention ties. So you would sit down with him for an hour or two, and talk about what you want out of this. Um, sometimes it's like, do I wanna have a kid, or a buddy of mine was using heroin for something, so I would bring him and have a sweat, and just give him my energy in the sweat to help him, or my dad passed or something, or some- it can be light too. It doesn't have to be so heavy.

Joe Rogan 10:51 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 10:51 Um, but he's been amazing. Like, before, like, I start a movie in a couple weeks, and I'm just gonna go do a sweat, and get ready for that, and I just- whatever he's gonna- energy he's gonna give me to go into this shoot, um, and then for the- for Primeval, it was fucking beautiful. Like, I wasn't a good rider, I'm still not, on horses, and, uh, he gave me... Like, my horse has a feather, if you really watch, he's- I have four horses in it, but my first horse has a feather in him, and I wanted to do all these in honor of the horses, uh, which obviously the Shoshone do. Um, so he, he just taught me a shit ton about just to honor that tribe, and honor what, what they do and, and to be as authentic as possible, so that helped me root Isaac so much. But yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:44 Wow, that's a- such an intense character.

Taylor Kitsch 11:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:46 I don't know, imagine, like, you're playing a guy who's a white guy, who's, like, deeply ingrained with Native American life, and so it's like, it's all- it's very conflicted, there's a lot going on there, but you want- you- you wanna embody what this guy would be like.

Taylor Kitsch 12:02 Yeah. Yeah, and y- you're- you meet him when he's mourning, right?And he's lost his wife and his son, and he married into the tribe. Uh, so the f- the female chief, I married h- her daughter and had a son. And, um, so when you meet Isaac, he's just in mourning. And everything is full circle, everything is circular with them, so the only way he could reunite with his family is to, is to die honorably, so that influences the way I fight. So the way Isaac fights is all in.

Joe Rogan 12:38 Wild.

Taylor Kitsch 12:38 Wild. Like biting ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:41 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 12:41 I had, I just got chills thinking about this. There's a fight, I think, in episode two which was fucking insane, and we didn't rehearse. This is very Berg. And we have these, one guy's Blackfeet, unbelievable guy, and I kept using him because he's a great stuntman. And, um, so Pete's like, "You guys are gonna fucking roll down this hill, and I want you to fight your way to the river, and then we'll cut, and then w- I want you to fight in the river." This is like maybe 28 degrees in that river.

Joe Rogan 13:15 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 13:15 The safety guy is like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." (laughs) "This is not cool." And this is all, like, on the go. So J.J. Dashnaw, my double, is like all in. He loves this. This is th- near the end of the shoot too, so. And, uh, everyone's game. And, um, that fight was just so fucking intense.

Joe Rogan 13:39 So is it choreographed at all?

Taylor Kitsch 13:41 Nothing.

Joe Rogan 13:42 Nothing?

Taylor Kitsch 13:42 Literally nothing.

Joe Rogan 13:43 So how do you know, like, when he's gonna punch or you're gonna punch?

Taylor Kitsch 13:46 Yeah. So during, if it's you and me, it's like you, we'll walk the area, make sure there's no, uh, sticks or whatever that were gonna impale us, and during the fight I'll be like, "Okay, I'm gonna flip you."

Joe Rogan 14:01 Oh wow.

Taylor Kitsch 14:01 And then it's like, "Okay, I'm gonna get on top." And then-

Joe Rogan 14:05 Oh, so you have to say it?

Taylor Kitsch 14:06 Yeah. And then Pete will be yelling behind camera to be like, "Okay, now work your way on top of him, and then we'll fight, work our way, roll, work our way." And then he's like, "Okay, find a rock. Kill him."

Joe Rogan 14:18 Jesus Christ. (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 14:20 (laughs) And then that war cry, which I'm so proud of, I worked on that forever. But, uh, and I had talked to Pete about it for, you know, months before but we were just rolling so quick. And I told our A camera, Brett, to, uh, get in tight. I mean, any shot with Pete is fucking tight, which I love. Um, and I'm like, "B, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this war cry. So don't go down to him or ..." And he's like, "Gotcha." And so when I did it, Pete finally called cut and he goes, "What the fuck?"

Joe Rogan 14:57 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 14:57 "I was not fucking ready for that." And, uh, it's those moments though that, that he allows you to just go, you know?

Joe Rogan 15:05 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 15:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:06 Well, he's such a smart guy.

Taylor Kitsch 15:07 He is, man.

Joe Rogan 15:08 He's such a-

Taylor Kitsch 15:08 When he's dialed, he's like ...

Joe Rogan 15:10 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 15:10 ... Lone, he was just so present and early, and he just, w- I mean, we were surrounded by SEALs, as you know, every take. And, um, I don't think you could do what we did to f- in prep of just like, no producers, no Pete, no nothing. It's just every morning, 7:00 AM, 8:00 AM, we're up in the mountain, uh, with SEALs, with Ray Mendoza and, uh, amazing guys. And, uh, we s- oh, first week is like first day, man. I'm Canadian so I haven't shot a fucking gun in my life. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:47 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 15:47 And-

Joe Rogan 15:47 The first time you ever shot a gun was in Lone Survivor?

Taylor Kitsch 15:50 W- yes.

Joe Rogan 15:50 That's hilarious.

Taylor Kitsch 15:52 So first, Chris Karachi, who's a fucking legend, a man's man, um, and he, I think he was like one of the, on the first team, uh, SEAL team units, and the deepest voice you've ever heard in your life, and like a fucking man. And, uh, he took me under his wing, and so our first day was live fire. And Karachi took me aside, he's like, "Hey, it's you and me." And I'm like, "Let's go." And I'm like as fit as I ever have been. I was running Town Lake doing the Murph every fucking three times a week with weighted vests. And, uh, just at Lake Travis High School there doing pull-ups, and it was unbelievable fun training for that. And, um, first day was live fire, and that fucking gets you right. That d- you do not fuck around, and, uh, they make sure of it. And then, uh, I haven't, I hadn't met Markus yet, and Foster, uh, had drove down I think from Texas to, uh, New Mexico with, with Latrell. I was pretty jealous of that. I was like, "Ah, you got to spend some real time with Markus." And I was playing Mike obviously, and, and, uh, who is Markus' best friend. And so we're on this fucking range doing live fire, like upside down reloads, combat reloads, jamming, blindfold, it was just, it was full on. And Emile's actually a great shot. Um, Markus comes, everything goes full stop, and right when he's coming there's a PA on the other side, and she's bringing fucking banana, uh, shakes out, which is not a good look for these actors.

Joe Rogan 17:40 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 17:40 And Markus looks at these shakes, and he looks at the actors, and he's like, "What the fuck is happening? You guys don't get shakes in between fights." (laughs) And one of the actors just shamelessly goes up and grabs one of these banana shakes, and he's just talking to Markus-

Joe Rogan 17:59 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 17:59 ... meeting him for the first time. (laughs) And I'm like, "You might wanna put that down." Like wait 'til he fucking leaves before-

Joe Rogan 18:08 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 18:08 But, and then, uh, it's just a beautiful experience, man. Um-... the second week of training, we were doing simunitions. Have you done that?

Joe Rogan 18:18 No.

Taylor Kitsch 18:19 Oh, you would love it. So this'll break skin, and, uh, they hurt. It's like a hard plastic, paint-tipped, and they fly like that, right?

Joe Rogan 18:30 They arc?

Taylor Kitsch 18:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:31 'Cause they don't go as fast?

Taylor Kitsch 18:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 18:33 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 18:33 And, uh, so we have sims now, and Mike would... I- my guy decides if we push left, push right, if we engage, get the fuck outta here, let's buy ourselves some time, whatever. I gotta make these calls. And, um, so the SEALs are in tally gear, and they're like, "Go up the mountain."

Joe Rogan 18:52 What's tally gear?

Taylor Kitsch 18:52 Taliban gear.

Joe Rogan 18:53 Oh.

Taylor Kitsch 18:54 They're all dressed in tally gear. So we meet up at the bottom of this fucking mountain, and they're all in Taliban gear, and you're like, "Oh, God."

Joe Rogan 19:03 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 19:05 We're so fucked. So they're like, "Give us 10 minutes, and, uh, when you get ambushed, we're gonna watch, and we're gonna engage, and we're gonna see what you do, see what you've learned in the last week." And you're like, "All right. Let's go." So it happens, and you're just walking, right? Just like we are in the film. You're just walking and waiting to get ambushed. You know shit's about to hit. And so they hit, and you hit the ground right away to figure out where the bullets are coming, and, uh, and you can hear 'em, which really sets you straight. And so I'm looking over at Emile, and I'm like, "Fucking, uh, 12 o'clock." They're just straight up in these trees. I'm like, "12 o'clock. Fucking push right." We gotta get the... 'Cause we're in this open field. I just got chills. We're in this open field, and I'm like, "Get to fucking cover, dude." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:03 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 20:03 "We gotta fucking fight our way to cover." And Emile's, like, taking his time, and he's like, "Bro, ah, fuck. All right. It's fucking intense." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:17 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 20:17 And I'm like, "Push right." I got Foster behind me, who's, like, so in it. He's fucking crawling through cactus and, like, bleeding. And I'm on the ground, crawling, screaming at Emile. Marcus comes out s- full... S- We got hammered. I literally don't think we got through a mag. Like, and Marcus comes out, and we're c- not laughing, but it's too light. Like, we're taking it too lightly. And I'm like, "Emile, you gotta push, man." If I'm pushing, if I'm telling you... So Marcus comes in, and he's, like, full stop, and he goes... I thought he was gonna rip Emile. And he comes over to me, and he's like, "Is this funny?" And I'm like, "No, sir." And he's like, "Do you understand the stakes of this?" Like, "Every one of you are fucking dead. You're all fucking dead." And so he just rips me. He's like, "It's your fault. This guy doesn't wanna fucking move? Make a move." Like, "You're dead. Do you understand that?" And I was just, like, just leveled, right? And, uh, it's a beautiful learning c- curve for me. And, um, we got better, but, I mean, any time... There's one time, I won't kill you with these stories, but one time, I was, like, fucking proud of myself. Like, we got in a ditch. We're... It was too much. Simunition, same thing, and we got in a ditch, and we're all here, and I'm fucking looking downrange, like, like, fucking... We're in one. We're still in a fight. And then, no joke, Mark Simos, the sniper SEAL, grabs my fucking shoulder, and he's like, boom. And I'm like, "Where the fuck did you come from?" Like, that's how good these motherfuckers are, man. So it was like... It was just an amazing experience.

Joe Rogan 22:13 When you train for something like that, like, how much time is spent? Like, when you know you got the role-

Taylor Kitsch 22:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:18 ... and you know you're gonna film, like-

Taylor Kitsch 22:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:19 ... how much time do you give yourself to prepare for something like that?

Taylor Kitsch 22:22 Long- I love prep.

Joe Rogan 22:24 Do you?

Taylor Kitsch 22:24 So, yeah, I do. Yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 22:26 Why, why do you love that?

Taylor Kitsch 22:27 The more time I can root myself into this guy, especially when the stakes are so high like Murph, um... I mean, physically, uh, was... I did this little comedy, uh, in Canada, and if you watch (laughs) this movie... And I was training for Lone during this movie, so it's called Skirwink Trail, um, in Newfoundland. Beautiful fucking trail. And it's me, my best friend of 30 years, and my assistant, who is a great guy. And we're training for Lone, getting ready, doing, like, 50-pound runs, uh, weighted vests, all this kind of stuff up Skir- Skirwink Trail. So if you watch (laughs) this movie, like at the beginning to the end, my body goes from like this to just fucking stacked in this movie. And so there's that, but obviously, 90% of this is mental, right? The SEALs? And so, um, I just love that. I love the prep. I love that pressure. Pete did a beautiful thing bringing nine... 19 guys died on the op., uh, and the rescue mission, so it was like... He brought all the families, uh, I think it was a week before we hit camera, and, um, man, d- you know, I'm going... It's... I'm in the elevator at the Hyatt in, uh, Santa Fe or Nu- or, uh, Albuquerque, and I'm fucking nervous, like throw up nervous, 'cause I'm meeting Dan Murphy now. And I'm like, "Did I do enough? Am I really fucking ready? Am I worthy of this shit?" And then we all have that fucking voice in our head that's like, "You're a pile of shit. You didn't do enough." (laughs) "You're not ready." And that's why I prep so much, because it eliminat- it's like a fight, right?

Joe Rogan 24:15 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 24:16 UFC or anything, these guys fucking... You prep to eliminate that self-doubt so you-

Joe Rogan 24:21 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 24:21 ... can be like, "I'm fucking ready for you." You know? So it's the same mentality. And so that was, um...... my first words to Dan were like, "I'm gonna everything I have into this. I'm gonna do it as authentically as I know how." And he was just so fucking gracious with me. Gave Mike's fi- uh, uh, firefighter, uh, patch, and just told me some amazing stories. And I'm super close with the Murphy family still. But, um, I love prep, man. I think it's... You gotta have it, especially with Pete's process. Like, if you're... He, he's so off the cuff sometimes, and if it's an idea he has on the day, which he really leans into his gut instinct, and obviously that's guided him pretty fucking beautifully, but you just gotta be ready for anything. And if you don't prep, you're not rooted, you're not ready for anything, you know? So, um, that one was a special one. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:21 Do you... Wh- what... When you get into a character, like, like when, if you're doing Lone Survivor, do you try to stay in that character all day long? Like, do you try to, do you break for lunch and just be yourself?

Taylor Kitsch 25:34 Yeah. I try, for sure. But you're still-

Joe Rogan 25:36 You try to stay in the character?

Taylor Kitsch 25:37 No, I try and be-

Joe Rogan 25:38 You try to be yourself?

Taylor Kitsch 25:39 I try and be with you in the moment.

Joe Rogan 25:40 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 25:40 At lunch. And not... Even though, you know-

Joe Rogan 25:43 That's gotta be weird though, right?

Taylor Kitsch 25:44 It is weird because (laughs) you're having-

Joe Rogan 25:46 You're on location.

Taylor Kitsch 25:47 Yep. On-

Joe Rogan 25:47 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 25:48 On top of the fucking mountain.

Joe Rogan 25:49 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 25:49 You're taking the ski lift up there.

Joe Rogan 25:51 And it's so important to be this guy.

Taylor Kitsch 25:53 Yeah. Yeah. And then you're having lunch with the Taliban guys.

Joe Rogan 25:57 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 25:58 You know? (laughs) And they're coming, and they're like, "Hey man, we're big fans."

Joe Rogan 26:03 Oh, God.

Taylor Kitsch 26:03 And you're like, "This is fucking weird."

Joe Rogan 26:05 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 26:06 And-

Joe Rogan 26:06 We're supposed to be shooting at each other in 20 minutes. (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 26:07 Yeah, I'm about to fucking blow your head off, man. And, uh... So, I mean, Wahlberg's quite light, in between, so that can be infectious in a good way. Ben is very... Like, he's, he carries that weight in a beautiful way. It's why he's so good. Uh, Emil's quite light. Um... But yeah, there's definitely a tone, right? Uh, especially when you're surrounded by the SEALs. It's such a quick reminder of what you're doing or serving. Um, but yeah, you're up on that mountain, having a sandwich, helping camera crew move their shit. Um, and then lunch is always quick, so you're right back into it. And it depends on the day. Like, if I know... Like, the climb up to Murph's death was... You're just carrying more weight that day. You just cannot fuck around with... You better get that fucking right.

Joe Rogan 27:00 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 27:01 And I remember being, uh... Emil comes up to me and he's like, "Hey, if we get off tonight..." I'll go full circle with this. "If we get off tonight, uh, you wanna go see Eddie Vedder?"

Joe Rogan 27:13 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 27:13 (laughs) And I'm like, "Fuck yeah. I love me some Vedder." And that was in, uh, Albuquerque. And so, we go to Vedder, meet him. Vedder calls him up, sings couple songs to him. It was an unbelievable night. And, uh, Pete, the next day, comes up to me and we're back up at the mountain doing some, uh, the fall off the, the cliff. We're doing that the next day. And, uh, Pete's like, "Hey, your death scene. I wanna talk about it." And I'm like, "All day. What do you, what do you wanna know? I got some thoughts on it." And you know, I talked to Marcus in the hotel, and he want- he remembers one specific thing he would like me to do. And so, Murph brought... Was pushing himself up with his rifle, uh, climbing up this rock. So, I'm like, "That's really all I wanna make sure, for Marcus's sake, that I get that in." And, uh, he's like, "Yeah, yeah, uh, we're gonna shoot this, um, in a parking lot, uh, eh, just outside, uh, on, uh, off the highway in Albuquerque." And I'm like, "Yeah, right." And he's like, "No, no. I wanna control the light and have a beautiful landscape behind Murph." And I'm like, "Pete, you, you're fucking killing me. We're gonna do this in a fucking parking lot?" And so it was my last day as Murph. And I love music. Uh, I'll always have a playlist for whatever character. And, um, Explosions in the Sky, who's Austin- who was, at the time, Austin-based, great guys, and Pete uses them all the time. Um, and they're just acoustic, no lyrics, which is- they're fucking amazing. And so there's one song that has a heartbeat in it, and that was my song for Murph, and it slows down in it. And so I go, you know, I... Prepping in the, in the trailer, I walk down through this fucking parking lot, and I'm like, "Oh, dude, I'm not in it. I'm not ready for this." (laughs) And then I'm getting mad at Pete for putting me in a parking lot-

Joe Rogan 29:16 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 29:16 ... to do this shit. I'm looking at fucking Sandia Hotel-

Joe Rogan 29:20 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 29:21 (laughs) ... getting ready to go, like, this most epic death on... You know, y- it doesn't get more epic than that guy, really.

Joe Rogan 29:28 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 29:30 Put in the tunes, and they built this big stage that was like four feet high and the, the rocks and then surrounded it by green screen and cameras. On the Phantom camera, which is that uber slow motion, that's where you see the, the spit coming out of Murph's mouth and all this. And, and I just broke down. Like, just I puddled myself right before it was just like months and months and months of thinking about it, and uh, and prepping and putting so much pressure. And then I had explosions in my head and I was like, "Goddamn, this is too..." Like, you're overwhelmed with emotion. And Pete comes up and he's like, "Get it out." And so I took five minutes, camera crew's waiting. We did like... I told Pete I want that rifle to, him to climb up with the, the rifle. And, um, I think we did three takes. And then the camera crew, Jacques was a, he's a DP. He DPed American Primeval, but he was a camera op on, on Lone. And, uh, he was working that slow-mo camera, and he just goes to Pete, he's like, "We've got it. We've got it."

Joe Rogan 30:40 Was it weird watching it on film knowing-

Taylor Kitsch 30:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 30:43 ... that you shot it in a parking lot? Like, trying to...

30:46 Wrap your head around it.

Taylor Kitsch 30:46 This is the first time I've told this story. Um, very much. Like, we would go... We went and scr- The first time I saw this film, man, was in, uh, I think it wasn't Redskins, it was Denver. The Broncos. We go and show this to the Broncos, and, uh, Robert Griffin III was the quarterback, I think. Yeah, he was there. And, um, I was with Ben Foster, and Ben had seen it. And I was... I watched it the first time with the Denver fucking Broncos, sitting in this theater, and I was a mess. A mess, yeah. It- it's just the pressure, right? I think.

Joe Rogan 31:30 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 31:31 But I love it.

Joe Rogan 31:32 Do it honor.

Taylor Kitsch 31:33 Yeah, truly. And then my first email was to Dan, his dad, and he thanked me and that's all that really fu- And Marcus. But yeah, they thanked me and that was really all I fucking need.

Joe Rogan 31:45 That's got to be a very intense kind of a role because you're playing a real human being whose family's still alive.

Taylor Kitsch 31:53 Maureen, Johnny, Dan, uh, the whole family. And there's a Destroyer, uh, fucking Beach, uh, uh, uh, mail, uh, uh, mail UPS, or not UPS but like a fucking, um, stamp or whatever named after him. There's fucking... It's insane. There's all these huge, uh, honorary plaques and statues and all this kind of stuff. So if you let it, like, overwhelm you, it definitely can. Yeah, but it- it's been... I mean, that's where all this, my love for these guys, is- is really stemmed from that. You know? Um, that's where it's like... I- I've played SEALs a lot and it's- it's... I'm never raised military or... My grandfather served, but it was... It's an infectious group, man. It's like a brotherhood that's so real.

Joe Rogan 32:55 Exceptional humans.

Taylor Kitsch 32:57 Truly, truly. And people don't understand these guys are the best fucking problem solvers on the planet. They're doctors, they're lawyers, they're fucking smart. And, uh, so, I don't know, I've just been embedded and I think once you're in with these guys, you know, um, you're- you're- you don't take it for granted. It's like, I've made calls to a buddy of mine that, uh... One of the most decorated SEALs alive, and, uh, he trained me for Lone, uh, Ray Mendoza. He just came out with Warfare, uh, that movie. That's, uh, his best friend, uh, his story. And, um, unbelievable guy. But I'll call Ray, and Ray was doing second unit on- on, uh, Terminalist, Dark Wolf, and he's like a brother to me. And l- no joke, you're like, "Hey man, I need a favor," and he's like, he'll fucking bury someone for you, man. (laughs) This guy, like, "Yeah, what do you- what do you need? What- what is it?" And it's like, it's just that whole brotherhood that it's like unquestionably, undeniably loyal.

Joe Rogan 34:05 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 34:06 And like Marcus, like, I mean, we're chatting a lot lately just because I'm shooting in Huntsville in a couple weeks and he's not far. But like my- my sister, I took some time off to help my sister because she was using drugs, and, um, and I just needed somewhere to fucking go. Just, I can't be in Austin. I tried LA. She's still using, she's still relapsing. I... Fucking Marcus. Call Marcus, I'm like, "Let's... I... This is what's going on." He's like, "Bring her here. Bring her to the ranch. There's no fucking fentanyl, there's no heroin, there's no meth on this fucking ranch, man. Bring her here." And so I... uh, she's not using at the ranch, so we went to the ranch. In 10 days I know she's gonna be fucking (laughs) clean, 'cause there's just... All we're doing is driving around looking for hogs-

Joe Rogan 34:59 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 34:59 ... or like hanging out, fishing, whatever it is. But he's just a, a beautiful guy, man. And where he is now is just... He's lighter on his feet. It's so beautiful to see. He was hurting on Lone, going through a lot of fucking, um, surgery still, all this stuff. So, uh, they're just so loyal and just great guys.

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Joe Rogan 37:16 Have you been paying attention to what they're doing in Texas for veterans?

Taylor Kitsch 37:20 Yes.

Joe Rogan 37:20 This ibogaine initiative?

Taylor Kitsch 37:21 Yes.

Joe Rogan 37:21 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 37:22 Awesome.

Joe Rogan 37:23 Huge.

Taylor Kitsch 37:23 Awesome.

Joe Rogan 37:24 It's, it's so remarkable how effective it is.

Taylor Kitsch 37:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:27 And how many people i- it's completely saved their life and changed their life.

Taylor Kitsch 37:32 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:32 You know? And I was just thinking about that for your sister. You know, I don't know-

Taylor Kitsch 37:35 Yeah, she's clean 10 years now. Just under 10.

Joe Rogan 37:38 Oh, that's awesome.

Taylor Kitsch 37:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:38 That's amazing.

Taylor Kitsch 37:38 Yeah, thanks. Uh, she's a nurse now.

Joe Rogan 37:41 Oh, wow.

Taylor Kitsch 37:41 Which is incredible.

Joe Rogan 37:42 That's great.

Taylor Kitsch 37:43 Um, yeah, she's, uh, uh, it's really kind of, like, that's where that nonprofit comes from. Um, I just started it. It's called Howler's Ridge. And, um, I didn't even know, like, when she got clean, like, there's some fucking crazy stories I can tell you. Um, but she's, she got clean and she hit me up and she was at a Sober Escape with all the girls she got clean with. And I'm like, "What is that?" And it's basically a reunion with all the people that you went through your sober living or whatnot. The last place she got clean was n- She was supposed to be there 90 days. She was there nine months.

Joe Rogan 38:20 Whoa.

Taylor Kitsch 38:20 Yeah. (laughs) That's what I said. Um, and, uh, so she was at this Sober Escape. And so Howler's Ridge is basically a place, I think we all know an addict if we're not ourselves. And, uh, and we're gonna help vets as well. But it's the sober side of addiction. So it's a place anytime you're using, at least through my experience watching my sister die a couple times, get Narcan'd a couple times. I mean, sh- I've seen her detox on my fucking kitchen floor, which is the worst fucking sight of anybody, to watch someone in so much pain. Um, but, um, this, this spot is for her, you know, where, where it all started. And, and this is, I think anytime you're using, right, we're all habitual humans. You work out six, seven times a week. Uh, you need that for your brain. So do I. And once you get in that habit, I change. If I don't work out in three, four days, I'm a fucking asshole. And I get depressed.

Joe Rogan 39:23 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 39:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:24 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 39:24 Like, I get-

Joe Rogan 39:25 Anxious.

Taylor Kitsch 39:26 Yeah, very.

Joe Rogan 39:26 Yeah. Yep, me too.

Taylor Kitsch 39:27 And, and I get, and I beat the shit out of myself.

Joe Rogan 39:31 Right, mentally, yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 39:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:32 You feel terrible.

Taylor Kitsch 39:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:33 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 39:34 Um, so we all create this environment, whether it's good or bad.

Joe Rogan 39:38 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 39:39 And I think with my sis, I just didn't have anywhere to take her, and I needed to pull her out, 'cause there was a time I, she relapsed like four or five times in LA and I was just finishing True Detective when I got her. And, uh, I mean, there's stories, but like, it's pretty fucked up, that whole system, 'cause you have someone that's dying, right? It's someone you raised or your brother or fucking best friend, whatever. And, uh, I bring her to this ... Well, first she had to detox, which is an incredible story. (laughs) Um, my mom calls me and she's like, "She's been using for this long." And I go full hero mode. I didn't even know what fentanyl was.

Joe Rogan 40:21 Really?

Taylor Kitsch 40:21 Yeah, I didn't. This is right after True Detective. I really wasn't exposed to it. I knew heroin, of course.

Joe Rogan 40:28 So what is this like 12, 13 years ago? How long ago?

Taylor Kitsch 40:30 Yeah, right in there. Whenever the end of-

Joe Rogan 40:33 You didn't know what, you didn't know what fentanyl was?

Taylor Kitsch 40:34 No.

Joe Rogan 40:34 Wow.

Taylor Kitsch 40:34 I knew, I knew like with the SEALs, um, they had fentanyl patches for the pain.

Joe Rogan 40:41 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 40:42 And then of course, like, but that's really all I fucking, if that. Like, obviously I educated myself on it after and it's 20 to 25 times worse than heroin. It's a deathbed drug. It put you to sleep. And, um, so I got this call and I'm like, "I'll get her sober in two weeks, bring her down." Like, hero mode. And she comes and I had no idea what was go- And she had used right before she flew. And so she was in withdrawal.

Joe Rogan 41:15 Oh, God.

Taylor Kitsch 41:15 Oh, God is fucking right, man. And your muscle contractions are so bad that I had this little one bedroom apartment in Marina Del Rey, 15, like literally a hallway from here about this long actually. And it's late and, um, she's just pacing 'cause she can't sit still 'cause the muscle contractions are so bad.

Joe Rogan 41:37 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 41:37 And I'm like, "Chels, just take, go to bed. Take my bed and just try and sleep." She's like, "No, no, no, no. You don't understand. I have to move." And so she tried sleeping, going, laying down. Muscle contractions were so bad she fell off the bed. And, uh, I'm like, "Okay, let's go for a walk." Li- And the beauty of our relationship and what I think was a huge factor in getting her clean was the transparency. Like, "You gotta fucking be real with me. Tell me when you used, tell me how often," like everything. She did, which is so tough to hear. Um, and so we ended up walking down Abbot Kinney at 3:00 in the morning. And no one's obviously out there and we just did this crazy walk and talk, and I'll never forget it. And, uh, it's just heartbreaking. And I get her and I call, um, I don't even know if she needs to detox, so I call the hospital, Marina Del Rey, and they're like, "No. We don't take anybody that's using right now. You, they have to be detoxed and we may be able to help them after." So I'm like, "Okay, what the fuck is ... Okay, we got, we gotta detox." And, um, so I call this place and they're like an hour away and she's like, "I have a bed for her." And, "Bring her at 6:00 AM." I mean, I got this little Wrangler, w- a two-door Wrangler, and she's in the back seat, my mom in the front, and she's like almost kicking the fucking glass out 'cause of the muscle contractions of my Jeep. And I was like, "Holy ... Like, such a wake-up call to ... I had no idea it was this bad." So reality's kinda setting in. And, um, she kept asking for methadone. "I want methadone." 'Cause she had detoxed before on methadone and, um-And so I go to this fucking house, and I knock on the door and she's in the back seat. She's got her little backpack. And it's this fucking woman, like, butchy in- like, presence. She opens the door. She's like, just a matter of fact, "Where's your sis?" And I'm like, "Oh, she's grabbing her bag." She's like, "Well, bring her here." I'm like, "Okay." Sh- uh, "Shells, let's go." She comes and Shells is like, "I need..." Doesn't say hi, nothing. She's like, "I need methadone." And she goes, "Well, when did you use blah, blah, blah," and all this. And she tells her and she's like, "Oh, you haven't even bottomed out yet. We don't treat drugs with drugs here, honey. You're gonna, you're gonna have some Gatorade and some topical muscle relaxer, and you're gonna sweat this out." (laughs) And Shel- it's funny now, but Shelby goes to her knees, and she's like, "I need methadone." She goes, "No, no, no. What did I just say?" And she's like, "You're getting Gatorade, muscle relaxer, and you're gonna watch some movies. And you can-

Narrator 44:29 Whoa.

Taylor Kitsch 44:29 ... smoke. No phone." She was incredible. Four and a half days later, she called me and she's like, "Your sister's good. Bring her to a sober living just by Venice High." And it's thirty thou- like, when someone's fucking almost ready to go, you're, "I'll do anything," right? And they know this. And so it's 30,000 for the month.

Narrator 44:53 Jesus.

Taylor Kitsch 44:53 And it's sober living, you'll have one session, which isn't enough, uh, 'cause she has some trauma. And, um, uh, with a psych. And I was like-

Narrator 45:04 One in 30 days?

Taylor Kitsch 45:05 One every week.

Narrator 45:06 Oh.

Taylor Kitsch 45:07 And I was like, "We need lot more than one a week." And, um, so I dr- and my sis was a runner. And, uh, so you sign this fucking contract and it's like, if she runs, if she leaves, if she does this, this, this, and that, you, she's out. We kick her out, and we keep your money. Two hours in, gone.

Narrator 45:28 Ohh.

Taylor Kitsch 45:28 I get a call (laughs) yeah. I get a call from this LA number, and I'm like, "No fucking way." Okay, there's 30 grand gone. I'm gonna find another one. She went to another one, little better, cool, yeah, got twice a week. Two days later she runs again. So I'm down 65K in three days. (laughs)

Narrator 45:50 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 45:50 And I'm like, bleeding cash. And then I figure out, like, another spot. She stayed, like, 30 days, relapsed, and then, um, yeah, she kept relapsing and then, uh, multiple times. Narcan'd up in Calabasas, there's a place, and she left. And, uh, this one girl, she had, uh, night terrors. And, um, so, they would, she had, I would walk around, Joe, with this fucking, uh, Ziploc bag of pills, of like, antidepressants, for her night terrors, sleeping pills, all these things to just take away this trauma, for whatever beat it would be within her, right? And there's an amazing doc up there, an South African guy that deals with women addicts and trauma, and, uh, she was there for a while, and that was really great. And she got a hold of these sleeping pills, and they're supposed to give you one every night, and the girl put the bottle up on the little half door. You know those doors, swinging doors?

Narrator 47:01 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 47:01 Yeah. And, um, so she grabbed the bottle, and she was, as a lot of these sober livings are, they're pretty incestuous and, and the guys sleep with the girls, vice versa obviously, and um, she was dating a g- a kid named Mike there. And so she went to m- that part of the house and said goodbye to Mike. And to this kid's credit, um, he was like, "That's a little weird. You didn't say goodnight, you just said goodbye." And so she goes up, hammers 60-something sleeping pills-

Narrator 47:34 Oh, Jesus.

Taylor Kitsch 47:35 ... yeah, and, uh, he goes and tells. He's like, "Hey, this ain't right. You gotta go check on her." So long story short, call the ambulance, and the medic, to his credit, is like, "Go grab the fucking bottle." And, uh, grabs a bottle, and shows this medic, and he's like, "We're pumping her stomach right now in the ambulance." And, um, what saved her life were their time release.

Narrator 48:01 Oh.

Taylor Kitsch 48:02 Isn't that fucking crazy?

Narrator 48:04 Wild.

Taylor Kitsch 48:04 Yeah, wild. So I got this call and I lost my mind, for giving her, uh, the bottle. Um, but yeah, she, at that point, she kind of just fucking ran again, went to a drug house. She hates using, uh, needles, so someone would shoot her up. Yeah, so as you know-

Narrator 48:25 Ugh.

Taylor Kitsch 48:25 ... if you're fucking sober 92 days, whatever it was, if you use what you were using before, you're fucking gone.

Narrator 48:32 'Cause your tolerance is gone.

Taylor Kitsch 48:33 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Narrator 48:34 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 48:35 So they drop... It's a fucking movie. They dropped her off at the stoop of this hospital, and she got Narcan'd. I didn't know any of this part. I didn't, I wasn't privy to this yet.

Narrator 48:44 Oh my god.

Taylor Kitsch 48:45 I'm just driving around looking for her. And, uh, anyway, she's... Just to go back to that environment, I'm like, "I'm outta money. We gotta, I gotta send you back home to Vancouver." And she's like, "You put me to Vancouver, I'm gonna die." And I'm like, "Well, it ain't working well (laughs) here either." And, uh, she was at a psych ward on 34th and Lamar. Uh, that was a fucked up story, but, um, for like ten days. Um, but anyway, she got, she went to this place called the Westy House in New Westminster just outside Vancouver, and it's a, it was a women's only, and she was there. She ran there, and I got her back in, and she got clean, and hasn't looked back since, right.

Narrator 49:27 Ran again?

Taylor Kitsch 49:28 I know, man.

Joe Rogan 49:29 Whoo.

Taylor Kitsch 49:31 Vancouver-

Joe Rogan 49:31 Boy, those phone calls must be rough.

Taylor Kitsch 49:33 Oh. I was- I didn't even know what Al-Anon was. And, uh, I was at 360 Bridge, there's a church just across 360 Bridge. And, uh, I was at this Al-Anon (laughs) and, uh, and I'm waiting, I didn't- Shell's has been gone, so I'm waiting for the call of like, okay, she's finally overdosed and gone. And so I'm a mess, and I'm in Al-Anon just waiting for this call, and I'm judging everybody (laughs) in this fucking Al-Anon. Like, there's this woman across from me, she's like, "Yeah, my husband, he used and, um, yeah, I got Christmas with him." And I'm like, "Fuck, that's easy day." I'm like, you don't even know what the fuck I'm dealing with over here, you know? And then you hear another story and you're like, "That's bullshit. You guys are pussies." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:25 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 50:25 All in my head. And, uh, so I just listen. It does help, or help me a lot. And I come out and this one guy, he's like, "Hey, you're heavy. You gotta- you wanna talk or anything? You didn't say a word in there." And, and I'm like, right when he said that, my sis called and she was Downtown Vancouver and she had just used and got scared straight. Um, some guy had followed her and sexually abused a friend of hers in front of her, and she's like, "I can't do this no more." So she was scared straight. And she's like-

Joe Rogan 50:58 So that's what got her sober?

Taylor Kitsch 51:00 She got ... She was Downtown Vancouver, called me and she's like, "Can you get me back in Westy House?" And I call, Susan was her name, and, um, call her back and I'm throwing everything. I'm like, "I will fucking, uh, support you guys. Can you give us a bed? Can you get her one more time? I know she's not allowed back," and all this. And she goes, "I'll call you back." And she got- she got her a bed and she was there nine months.

Joe Rogan 51:25 Wow.

Taylor Kitsch 51:26 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:27 So, what- what was it that finally kept her sober? Did she say?

Taylor Kitsch 51:33 That's a fucking good question.

Joe Rogan 51:34 Jamie, can you tell, uh, Jeff to bring in the coffee?

Narrator 51:38 Oh yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 51:38 Um ... That's a good question. I know at times it was like, she has- we have nieces and nephews and she wanted to get clean for them, but that didn't last. I think it was that moment of getting scared straight, like you just can't keep doing this. Um ...

Joe Rogan 52:00 Rock bottom.

Taylor Kitsch 52:01 Yeah, I think that's what it is. It- it's so subjective, right?

Joe Rogan 52:05 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 52:06 We all know somebody that's like, "I stopped drinking yesterday."

Joe Rogan 52:09 Yep. Yep.

Taylor Kitsch 52:09 Done.

Joe Rogan 52:10 Yep.

Taylor Kitsch 52:11 Like my buddy over there, y- you just met, y- it's just like, he went for a few weeks and he hasn't had booze since. And it's like, sometimes it just clicks and they're like, "Fuck this life, I don't want it anymore," and some just can't break that habit. But yeah, I mean-

Joe Rogan 52:27 Yeah, it varies so much.

Taylor Kitsch 52:28 Oh my god.

Joe Rogan 52:29 Thanks Jamie.

Taylor Kitsch 52:30 Um, but yeah, she's a lot like me too, super ... I'll steal some.

Joe Rogan 52:35 Get some, dog.

Taylor Kitsch 52:36 Thanks man. Um, yeah, it's a- it's a beautiful story.

Joe Rogan 52:42 It is 'cause it ends-

Taylor Kitsch 52:42 Tragically be- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:43 But it ends well.

Taylor Kitsch 52:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:44 But it- it very well couldn't have. I mean-

Taylor Kitsch 52:47 I know.

Joe Rogan 52:47 ... imagine if that guy didn't say-

Taylor Kitsch 52:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:49 ... goodbye? What is goodbye?

Taylor Kitsch 52:51 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:51 Why- why goodbye? What the fuck's going on? Yeah, that one guy probably saved her sister's life.

Taylor Kitsch 52:55 And I wanna fucking kill that guy, by the way.

Joe Rogan 52:58 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 52:58 'Cause he's- he relapsed with her and used with her at that drug house.

Joe Rogan 53:01 Yeah. It's fucked, man.

Taylor Kitsch 53:04 I know, man. So that like, for me, is a l- a big part of Haller's Ridge, and then with the vets as w- we just chatted, I love these guys and- and the families and, uh, so hopefully we'll have ... You talk about ibogaine, I know it- we can't do that in Montana yet, hopefully, but I hope up there on Haller's Ridge we can maybe in a year or two-

Joe Rogan 53:27 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 53:27 ... we'll see what happens that we can do some of that up there with the-

Joe Rogan 53:30 Well, I think it's gonna be so effective in Texas that it's gonna spread.

Taylor Kitsch 53:34 I hope.

Joe Rogan 53:34 And I think the fact that they're starting with, uh, veterans-

Taylor Kitsch 53:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:38 ... which because these guys don't get any support. There's-

Taylor Kitsch 53:43 I know.

Joe Rogan 53:43 I mean, you think about what they have to go through when they go off to war, what the things that they experience, and then they come back and they've lost friends and they've seen their buddies get blown up in front of them, and they're- they just- they're all fucked up, and then they're hooked on pills. And it's-

Taylor Kitsch 53:58 And the pills are just, you can Cookie Monster a fucking jar if you want and they'll refill you, like ... And there's different outlets like Virginia, Hawaii, Florida, doctors in each one that are sending you.

Joe Rogan 54:10 Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Taylor Kitsch 54:11 And it's, that's-

Joe Rogan 54:12 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 54:12 ... you, literally at your doorstep, you're getting these jars of pills.

Joe Rogan 54:16 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 54:17 It's like, you're giving ... And these guys obviously have addictive personalities.

Joe Rogan 54:21 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 54:21 That's what makes them so fucking great.

Joe Rogan 54:23 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 54:24 That's one thing, like-

Joe Rogan 54:25 Yeah. Isn't that weird?

Taylor Kitsch 54:25 Yes.

Joe Rogan 54:25 That's a weird thing, right? The- the addictive tendency can actually make you great at something.

Taylor Kitsch 54:30 Yeah. Well, beautiful, right?

Joe Rogan 54:33 Yeah. I mean, it's-

Taylor Kitsch 54:33 If- if you use it.

Joe Rogan 54:34 If you harness it.

Taylor Kitsch 54:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:35 But it can go sideways on you. Which is really weird.

Taylor Kitsch 54:39 That ... It is. That's one thing, and it's funny 'cause, uh, not that I'm cocky or was cocky with Dark Wolf, but I had played this guy already before and I lose my trident in it and Mendoza's kinda getting the parade rest ready and the whole ceremony ready for it. And he's just a brother of mine, and- and it was a big moment that I learned, because these workups, say you workup on a Thursday and you go at 2:00 AM to 7:00 AM and you go take a couple guys out and you come back, whatever, celebrate, probably get- have a few drinks, and then you have another workup on Tuesday. But let's say you and I go in the fight and I die on that Thursday op, you're back in workup Tuesday morning. So, this is one thing that really kinda punched me when I was talking to Mendoza, 'cause he was talking a- about some stories where he lost somebody and-I was like, "There's literally no fucking time to mourn. There's no time to register the loss of this." So, you're just harnessing this pain and this, all these emotions.

Joe Rogan 55:49 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 55:50 And you're just like, "Okay, I guess I'm back in the fight, and I'm gonna do this for at least another few months before I'm out on my six-month, uh, tour." And that really, kinda knocked me out, and that set me free to play this guy a lot more, like, just knee-jerk emotion and way more of a live wire, because it's like, "Who the..." W- we talk about how subjective mourning is. You know, it's like everyone mourns differently.

Joe Rogan 56:19 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 56:19 So, it's like, I just made that choice with, uh, Ben of just like, "This guy's just a fucking mess, and let him just emotionally make these decisions then." And that's where I took him. And, and Jarv Moe.

Joe Rogan 56:31 Did you have conversations with, uh, other vets that were addicts and that were fucked up from war and just had all sorts of different kinds of ways-

Taylor Kitsch 56:39 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 56:39 ... of dealing with trauma and?

Taylor Kitsch 56:41 All the time.

Joe Rogan 56:41 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 56:42 All the time. It's so common. It really is.

Joe Rogan 56:45 It's insanely common.

Taylor Kitsch 56:45 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:47 And, but it- it only makes sense. It would be crazy if it wasn't common-

Taylor Kitsch 56:49 I know. Yeah, you're right.

Joe Rogan 56:50 ... 'cause think of what you're asking them to do.

Taylor Kitsch 56:52 I know. And we don't know the half of it.

Joe Rogan 56:54 No.

Taylor Kitsch 56:54 We really don't.

Joe Rogan 56:55 We don't know any of it. We d-

Taylor Kitsch 56:56 Yeah, true.

Joe Rogan 56:56 We don't exper- If you don't physically experience it-

Taylor Kitsch 56:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:59 ... you're just making things up.

Taylor Kitsch 57:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:01 You know?

Taylor Kitsch 57:01 Yeah. And I mean, I think o- obviously with Red Wings and, and stuff like that, with Lone, but then you talk to these guys in between takes, and they're pretty transparent, which is beautiful that they're talking about it and all this. But it's like, where are they putting this fucking energy after they're out? Like, they gotta find another purpose that's so fucking heightened when you're serving. There's no bigger purpose. You're fucking killing bad guys.

Joe Rogan 57:30 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 57:30 Like, that's incred- with your brothers right next to you. Like, that's a heavy fucking thing to carry. And then when they come out, now what?

Joe Rogan 57:39 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 57:39 I'm gonna go walk fucking Walmart and-

Joe Rogan 57:41 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 57:41 ... just be a dad and that's just a whole nother life?

Joe Rogan 57:46 That's one of the things I really loved about Hurt Locker.

Taylor Kitsch 57:48 Yeah, fuck me. That was great.

Joe Rogan 57:50 It was such a good movie.

Taylor Kitsch 57:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:51 And it was so good the way he explained, or- or the way it played out how this guy just could not go back to normal.

Taylor Kitsch 58:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:01 Like, it- it just wasn't working.

Taylor Kitsch 58:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:02 He, he didn't give a fuck. He'd rather be back out there.

Taylor Kitsch 58:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:06 Downrange.

Taylor Kitsch 58:06 I mean, if you look at Marcus too, after Red Wings, he went back to Ramadi.

Joe Rogan 58:10 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 58:10 Which is f- wanted to die with his boots on.

Joe Rogan 58:13 Whew.

Taylor Kitsch 58:14 I mean, f- these guys are fucking... This is kind of the UFC, right? Of like, these guys are modern day fucking gladiators, warriors. And I- I know they're not in the front lines or downrange, but it's like, you- you've got a guy like Marcus or the, Mendoza, or these guys that are just truly born warriors.

Joe Rogan 58:32 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 58:32 They're just a d- are a different breed.

Joe Rogan 58:34 Well, that's why they get it through BUD/S too.

Taylor Kitsch 58:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:37 You gotta be a different kind of human.

Taylor Kitsch 58:38 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:39 You know?

Taylor Kitsch 58:39 More mental than physical.

Joe Rogan 58:41 Yeah. Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 58:42 I mean, Mendoza was running BUD/S too, and he would say, "A lot of times you look at these fucking scrawny guys."

Joe Rogan 58:48 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 58:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:49 Those are the ones that make it.

Taylor Kitsch 58:49 And then you've got the D1 athletes-

Joe Rogan 58:51 Yep.

Taylor Kitsch 58:52 ... that haven't had or gone through a whole lot-

Joe Rogan 58:54 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 58:54 ... because they're gifted athletically.

Joe Rogan 58:56 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 58:56 Up here, though, they're not as strong.

Joe Rogan 58:58 Uh-huh.

Taylor Kitsch 58:58 And that fucking scrawny guy over there-

Joe Rogan 59:01 Yep.

Taylor Kitsch 59:01 ... is bringing that D1 athlete with him.

Joe Rogan 59:04 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 59:04 Yeah, those stories are...

Joe Rogan 59:05 That's kind of the case with fighters too sometimes. Sometimes it's the guys that aren't talented that wind up being champions-

Taylor Kitsch 59:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:11 ... 'cause they're just, they're tougher and they work harder-

Taylor Kitsch 59:13 Yep.

Joe Rogan 59:13 ... because they don't have it given to them easily.

Taylor Kitsch 59:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:16 You know, they can't half-ass in the gym. They have to be all in.

Taylor Kitsch 59:20 Yep. Yeah, it's the life, right?

Joe Rogan 59:22 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 59:22 It's the sacrifice.

Joe Rogan 59:23 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 59:23 What are you willing to do?

Joe Rogan 59:24 And you, you, you know, you have to be all in in that job, both jobs.

Taylor Kitsch 59:29 Yeah. And comfort can kill you.

Joe Rogan 59:32 Oh, yeah. In everybody's life.

Taylor Kitsch 59:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:35 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 59:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:36 I hate it.

Taylor Kitsch 59:36 I know, I know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:38 I hate it. (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 59:38 I know, man. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:39 I would've thought that one day that I'd be wealthy and that I'd be d- just fucking chilling and going to the beach.

Taylor Kitsch 59:44 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:44 Like, "No, I'm gonna fucking-"

Taylor Kitsch 59:45 Now you're going even harder.

Joe Rogan 59:46 "... cold plunge every morning."

Taylor Kitsch 59:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:47 And yeah, no, I- I fucking hate it. I think it's the enemy.

Taylor Kitsch 59:51 It really is.

Joe Rogan 59:52 The enemy of happiness.

Taylor Kitsch 59:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:53 It really is.

Taylor Kitsch 59:54 Even like, me with acting, it's, like I live for it. I love it, and I honestly do believe I've just worked my way through stubbornly. Like, I'll just outwork people. It's not like I was gifted this talent or... It truly isn't. I'll just outwork people, and then now it's like 44 now, which is crazy. And, um, now I'm starting to be like, "Okay, you're thinking about kids. You're thinking about..." I need a little more balance.

Joe Rogan 1:00:24 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 1:00:25 But then I start this balance, and it scares the fuck out of me and I don't like it.

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 How does it scare you?

Taylor Kitsch 1:00:33 Just, it's the comfort, right? It's like, "Oh, Kitch, don't take this. Just go keep fly fishing. Keep, you know, just go on a motorcycle trip. Go..." Which is great, and I'll still do it, but I'm just so conscious of it, of like, "Don't get fucking comfortable."

Joe Rogan 1:00:46 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 1:00:46 "Don't think."

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 1:00:47 "Don't rest on your-"

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 1:00:50 "... work." You know?

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 Comfort's not bad if you earn it.

Taylor Kitsch 1:00:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 But you gotta earn the fuck out of it.

Taylor Kitsch 1:00:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 Where like, when you're sitting on that couch, you know that you actually need to recover. Like-

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:00 Yeah, true.

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 ... if you're gonna keep going, you need to recover. So, like, watching South Park is probably good for you.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:06 Actually like medicine.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:07 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:07 You know? Just fucking let me just zone out and jiggle.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:09 True, true.

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:11 But there is that, I think... I don't know, do you have that with the- the fear of failure still of just like...

Joe Rogan 1:01:18 Of it all falling apart?

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:19 That-

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:20 ... and like, I'm on set in two weeks, and I'm fucking scared.

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:25 And it's a heavy role, shit ton of dialogue.

Joe Rogan 1:01:28 I think that's because you're doing the right thing. It's 'cause-

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:31 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 ... you know it's what you're supposed to be doing, you know?

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:33 But I can't sit on that-

Joe Rogan 1:01:34 Because it's really scary.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:34 ... fucking couch because I'm like, "What the fuck are you doing, Kitch?"

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 Well, now you can't sit on the couch-

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:39 ... because it's getting ready-

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 ... to be go time.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 But that's why you- you're doing what you do. I mean, you-

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 You have to be a little scared of what you do.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 You have to be.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:49 Like, Monday I'm going elk hunting.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 I'm kind of freaking out.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:53 What about-

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 Which I always do 'cause it's hard.

Taylor Kitsch 1:01:55 Yeah, it is.

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 It's, I got in shape. I got like, uh, did a lot of cardio, a lot of leg workouts 'cause-

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 ... you're going, you're huffing and up those mountains. Like, I shot...... three hours of arrows today.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:05 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 Three fucking arrows, I'm pulling b-

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:06 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 For three hours, I'm pulling back an 80-pound bow.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:09 No joke.

Joe Rogan 1:02:10 Yeah. It's, it's a lot of work, man. I work hard. But it's because when it's there, you wanna be prepared.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 So leading up to it, I get, like, fucking super serious. I get, like, really-

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 ... like, where it's, it's with me all day long.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:24 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 It's with me when I'm brushing my teeth.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:25 I know it. (laughs) I know it.

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 It's with me when I put on my underwear.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 It's with me when I'm sitting in the cold plunge.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 I'm thinking about the mountains.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:30 Because it's a hard thing to do, and that's why I do it, because I love it, and, but it's also because it's a hard thing to do. And when you're getting ready to do, like, a role that's, like, a fucking intense role, the nerves are a good thing. They're your friend.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:42 That-

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:43 Truly.

Joe Rogan 1:02:43 ... fucking-

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:43 ... keeps you honest.

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 ... sick feeling.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 Where you can't eat.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 Like, that's, that's your friend.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:47 Or you're-

Joe Rogan 1:02:48 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:48 ... looking through my girlfriend-

Joe Rogan 1:02:50 Yeah, you're barely listening.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:51 ... just running lines.

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 Yep. Yep, yep, yep.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:52 Fucking-

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Yep.

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:53 ... "What if I do this in this scene?"

Joe Rogan 1:02:54 Uh-huh. But if they-

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:56 And it's this-

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 ... they wanna talk about Taylor Swift's engagement ring. (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 1:02:59 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 Like, like, "I can't." (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:01 "I can't hear you."

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:02 And then, you're an asshole.

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 Right. Like, "What did you say?" "You're not listening." I was-

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 .... I was listening. I just spaced out for a second. I'm sorry.

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:08 Yeah. Yeah. (laughs) And then you go back to being spaced out-

Joe Rogan 1:03:11 Yeah. (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:11 ... after apologizing. Or I'll just literally be like, "I'm going on a bike ride," and I'm gone for two, three hours, and then I'm running shit in my head or ... It's so true. But it's the same, I equate it to, like, when we're rolling. It's like, you ain't hiding no more, kid.

Joe Rogan 1:03:29 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:29 You're fucking, you're in it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:30 You're in it.

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:30 It's the same thing.

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:31 Once you get exposed to that elk, it's like this is your fucking moment.

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 Yeah, you're in it.

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:35 We're gonna see if you did the work.

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I think people al- everyone needs something like that. But it scares-

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:43 ... people, so they shy away from it.

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 And they look towards something that's guaranteed. You get a guaranteed paycheck.

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:49 It's easy, it's simple.

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:50 But that's the, that's-

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:52 Death.

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 That's your enemy.

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:53 That's how, that's how your life becomes this just dull shade of gray.

Taylor Kitsch 1:03:58 Yeah. Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:03:59 You know?

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:00 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:04:00 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 Not good.

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 You're very fortunate. You're very fortunate. You've been able to do what you love, and that what you love is l- you know, it's, it's very exciting.

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:11 Like, and it's very exciting to other people. It's very rewarding.

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 Like, I, dude, I fucking loved you in American Primeval.

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:16 Oh, thanks.

Joe Rogan 1:04:17 That role was whoo.

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:18 That was my gladiator, man.

Joe Rogan 1:04:19 Woo. That was intense. That one scene where you're getting changed, and wh- and y- you see all the fucking cuts all over your body.

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:26 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:26 And you're like, you're like, "Whoa." (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 Like, it just-

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:29 That scene, I lost a bunch of weight for it. Um, and then, uh, Howard Berger did my makeup for that, and he's fucking incredible. And, uh, that scene, man, um-

Joe Rogan 1:04:41 That scene meant a lot because it's-

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:43 It's everything.

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 You saw who that guy-

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:45 It's everything.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 ... is raw, naked.

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:47 With his Shoshone brother.

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:48 And wakes up with a yelp.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 Starving, covered in scars.

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:51 And then goes into that, uh, teepee with the chief-

Joe Rogan 1:04:56 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 1:04:56 ... the m- the mother of his wife that he lost. And I wrote that scene, man.

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 Whoa.

Taylor Kitsch 1:05:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:02 Whoa.

Taylor Kitsch 1:05:02 And so Pete, Pete and I came up with "It's Only Pain," and then I, I broke my foot and got a fucking bone cut out of it on this, that show. And you know the scene where-

Joe Rogan 1:05:13 You had a bone cut out of it?

Taylor Kitsch 1:05:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:15 Why'd they cut a bone out?

Taylor Kitsch 1:05:17 So there's a scene where I go down to get horses, and I kill five or six guys at this skinning camp, and I think it's episode two. And Betty Gilpin, who's amazing, comes down, and she's, like, didn't trust me, and she comes down, and I have to kill these guys. During that sequence, uh, I broke this, my foot, and they call cut, and I go to, uh, Dash Na, the stunt coordinator, and, um, I'm like, "Oh, it's broken." And he's like ... I've worked with him for 15 years, and he's like, "Don't fuck with me." And I'm like, "No. Dash, it's broken." And I got this shooting pain in my groin, and he's like, "Get the fuck outta here," and I'm like, "Yeah." So finish the scene, and they, they spray fucking Biofreeze on my foot, and I'm like, "Guys, it's broken." Like, "I'm fucked." And so I go to Bozeman, and he's like, "It's this small bone right on the side of your foot, right there, that goes up and down right here."

Joe Rogan 1:06:16 Next to your toe?

Taylor Kitsch 1:06:17 Uh, connecting my big toe. It's on the side bone on my big toe.

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 Uh-huh.

Taylor Kitsch 1:06:22 And, uh, so he's like, "Oh, you can wear a boot. It's a small bone, so you won't need to, it'll heal itself." So I go back, and I'm in a boot doing this fucking show. And I got a six-foot-six, uh, wrangler. So when I get off that horse, 90% of the time ... I think his name's BJ. Great dude, big cowboy. Um, and he's below me off camera taking my weight, 'cause I can't step off the horse-

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 1:06:52 ... 'cause I'm in a fucking boot.

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 Medical boot.

Taylor Kitsch 1:06:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:54 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:06:55 And then, uh, six weeks goes by, or a month, and I go back to Bozeman and take my boot off, and, uh, he does one last X-ray, and he's like, "You need to be in surgery today."

Joe Rogan 1:07:05 Oh, no.

Taylor Kitsch 1:07:06 And, that's what I said. That's a shitty call to Netflix and Pete, and, um, so I got surgery, and then right before surgery, um, he's like, "We can pin it, but you're gonna be super active, and it may not take. Or I can cut it out and put bone wax on it." And-

Joe Rogan 1:07:26 Bone wax?

Taylor Kitsch 1:07:27 Yeah. I didn't know there was a thing that either.

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 What is bone wax?

Taylor Kitsch 1:07:29 I don't know either. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:31 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 1:07:33 So-

Joe Rogan 1:07:33 So he just said cut it?

Taylor Kitsch 1:07:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:35 'Cause you wanted to go back to work.

Taylor Kitsch 1:07:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:36 So they cut a chunk of bone off-

Taylor Kitsch 1:07:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:39 ... and then what is bone wax?

Taylor Kitsch 1:07:40 I think it just is a protective coating over it. Ooh, look at this.

Joe Rogan 1:07:44 Commonly supplied in sterile sticks, usually requires softening before it can be applied. It's generally made of beeswax.

Taylor Kitsch 1:07:50 They come quickly, well.

Joe Rogan 1:07:50 Softening agent used is paraffin or petroleum jelly, and it's smeared across the bleeding edge of the bone, blocking the holes and causing-

Taylor Kitsch 1:07:58 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:07:58 ... immediate bone hemostatis.

Taylor Kitsch 1:08:02 Still don't know what it means. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:03 Oh, th- I don't know what this mean is, is a tamponade, tamponade effect?... the closure of blockage as if by a tampon, especially to stop bleeding.

Taylor Kitsch 1:08:13 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:08:13 You got a tampon on your foot, bro.

Taylor Kitsch 1:08:15 Yeah, I do. (laughs) Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:08:15 Wow, that's crazy.

Taylor Kitsch 1:08:17 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 1:08:18 So does your foot fuck with you now?

Taylor Kitsch 1:08:19 Yeah. It's, uh, if I'm fly fishing or on uneven ground, it's... Or if I'm doing, you know, if I'm tracking or doing something, uh, side hilling, which I fucking hate.

Joe Rogan 1:08:31 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 1:08:31 Side hill hiking-

Joe Rogan 1:08:32 Yeah. It's hard.

Taylor Kitsch 1:08:33 ... I hate it. I have a terrible knee as well, that's where it bites. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:38 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:08:38 And then, um... Yeah, so I d- dealt with that. We had to, I had to be on the couch for six weeks, but my first day back was those two scenes, and I had called Pete, and I'm like, "Hey, I wrote this scene, I'd love..." 'Cause that scene was exposition with my mom at first. We were talking about Red Feather and stuff, and, uh, I'm like, this is my first day back after losing them that I haven't seen her since I've lost her daughter and her grandson. So this guy can't get through anything. Uh, so that was the crutch, and thank you for noticing. That's the crutch of that whole arc to that guy.

Joe Rogan 1:09:15 Yeah, it was an intense scene, 'cause he, it, it was so realistic.

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:19 Like, like, well, that's what a guy would look like.

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:21 Like, I, I hate when you see someone-

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:22 Same.

Joe Rogan 1:09:22 ... who looks like they've been living an easy life-

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 ... and they take their shirt off-

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:25 (laughs) Just-

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 ... when they're supposed to be, like, in some rugged outdoor environment.

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:28 Yeah, just stacked.

Joe Rogan 1:09:30 They just look soft and... Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:30 Or he's stacked-

Joe Rogan 1:09:31 All right.

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:32 ... and he looks incredible. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:33 Looks like he's been in the gym.

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:34 Nice tan, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:35 Yeah, eating creatine.

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:09:36 No, you, you looked like a hard man. Like a hard man who's been through some fucking hand-to-hand combat.

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:42 It looked very realistic.

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:43 Yeah. Thank you.

Joe Rogan 1:09:44 Did you have to starve yourself for that?

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:46 How much did you have to lose just to get-

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:49 I had time.

Joe Rogan 1:09:49 ... hungry looking?

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:50 I had time, which was great. Um, I lost 30 for that.

Joe Rogan 1:09:55 Whoa.

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:56 That's a lot of weight.

Taylor Kitsch 1:09:56 Yeah, but I had done it, I did this one film called the Bang Bang Club here, I was just living off Lamar here, and, um, I play this drug addicted, uh... True story about these war photographers right before the, during the apartheid, right before the first free election, Mandela's election. Kevin Carter is his name. He won a Pulitzer, uh, for this epic shot that he took. Um, got a lot of, uh, flak for it and ended up taking his own life. Um, but that, I had 30 days to prep, and I lost 35 in 30 days.

Joe Rogan 1:10:30 Whoa.

Taylor Kitsch 1:10:31 And I remember going just over I-35 here to this doc, and my heart rate was fucking low 20s.

Joe Rogan 1:10:38 Oh, God.

Taylor Kitsch 1:10:38 'Cause all I was doing was running, coffee, and I would, uh... The broth can be super salty, sodium heavy, so I'd filter that, and then just have broth and broccoli for dinner.

Joe Rogan 1:10:51 Oh, my God, you're just starving yourself.

Taylor Kitsch 1:10:53 Yeah, it was bad. And then I got a thyroid problem from that, and, uh, that doc-

Joe Rogan 1:10:58 Fuck.

Taylor Kitsch 1:10:58 That doc was like, um, "Hey, you're gonna fail this, uh, physical. (laughs) Just so you know." And I'm like, "What do I gotta do? I'm going to Africa next week." And he's like, "Do some push-ups." So I did push-ups and got my heart rate into the low 40s, and he's like, "Okay."

Joe Rogan 1:11:16 Wow.

Taylor Kitsch 1:11:16 (laughs) I know.

Joe Rogan 1:11:17 That's crazy.

Taylor Kitsch 1:11:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:19 That's crazy-

Taylor Kitsch 1:11:19 I was hurting on that.

Joe Rogan 1:11:20 ... 'cause you were probably kind of dying.

Taylor Kitsch 1:11:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:23 That's nuts, dude.

Taylor Kitsch 1:11:24 Yeah, and then I was hurting. They would shoot me out on Bang Bang Club, like, "Just shoot your coverage and go. Go back to bed." And, uh, then I ended up getting a nutritionist there, and, uh, she helped me a little bit. But that was a quick shoot, but, um, that's where I think I fucked my body on that one.

Joe Rogan 1:11:43 Wow.

Taylor Kitsch 1:11:43 And then Koresh again, lost weight for that.

Joe Rogan 1:11:46 That was great, by the way.

Taylor Kitsch 1:11:47 Thanks.

Joe Rogan 1:11:47 That fucking whole Koresh story-

Taylor Kitsch 1:11:49 Talk about fear.

Joe Rogan 1:11:50 ... is so crazy.

Taylor Kitsch 1:11:51 I know, man.

Joe Rogan 1:11:51 What is it like doing that movie? 'Cause it's another real life-

Taylor Kitsch 1:11:55 Yeah. That was, I was just prepping right there too. Um, that was almost too long a prep. Here's me saying I love prep, but I had six months to get into that head space, and it just... The last month, I tried to pull out of the show.

Joe Rogan 1:12:12 Really?

Taylor Kitsch 1:12:12 Yeah, because I was just, this is... I was just, you're holding, hoarding all this energy, and you, I lost the weight learning to play guitar and sing, which was a fucking comedy. Um, I'm fucking terrible.

Joe Rogan 1:12:25 He was terrible too, though.

Taylor Kitsch 1:12:27 Yeah. Yeah, he was.

Joe Rogan 1:12:28 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 1:12:28 That literally helped me.

Joe Rogan 1:12:30 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 1:12:30 I would listen to Dave, and I'd be like, "Wow."

Joe Rogan 1:12:32 "That guy sucks."

Taylor Kitsch 1:12:33 Yeah. (laughs) He's shit. (laughs) Genuinely helped me.

Joe Rogan 1:12:37 I have no idea how he got people to follow him with that fucking terrible singing.

Taylor Kitsch 1:12:40 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:41 If I was in that call, I'd be like, "Yo, this, we gotta reevaluate. This guy is not Christ."

Taylor Kitsch 1:12:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:46 "He is not the leader."

Taylor Kitsch 1:12:47 "He's actually kind of fucking terrible, right? Should we leave?"

Joe Rogan 1:12:49 "He's, he sucks. His music sucks."

Taylor Kitsch 1:12:51 Uh, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:54 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 1:12:54 But-

Joe Rogan 1:12:55 Just, what is it like getting in the head space of someone who's that depraved too? And, and who has that kind of, like, sick control-

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:05 ... over people?

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:07 Why? Figure out the why.

Joe Rogan 1:13:09 Right.

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:09 Why?

Joe Rogan 1:13:09 Did you figure it out?

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:10 Yeah, I think so.

Joe Rogan 1:13:11 Yeah?

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:12 Um, go to his childhood, which was fucking terrible.

Joe Rogan 1:13:16 Of course.

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:16 Um, like-

Joe Rogan 1:13:18 You don't become a cult leader-

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:19 (laughs) No.

Joe Rogan 1:13:19 ... if everything's awesome-

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:20 Yeah, right?

Joe Rogan 1:13:20 ... when you're a kid.

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:21 Two great, healthy parents.

Joe Rogan 1:13:24 (laughs)

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:24 Great support-

Joe Rogan 1:13:24 Always giving you hugs.

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:26 ... siblings. Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:13:27 And you decide to be a cult leader? No.

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:29 Yeah, yeah, he memorized the Bible by 15.

Joe Rogan 1:13:32 Whoa.

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:32 Which is fucking...

Joe Rogan 1:13:33 That's intense.

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:34 That says enough right there.

Joe Rogan 1:13:35 That's intense.

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:36 But he was, like, tied to a radiator on his birthday.

Joe Rogan 1:13:39 Oh, Jesus.

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:39 And was, like, abused pretty hard, and, um-

Joe Rogan 1:13:42 I almost bought his car.

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:44 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:13:45 I came real close-

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:45 I tried buying his bike.

Joe Rogan 1:13:46 ... to pulling the trigger on his car. He had a 1968 Camaro, and, uh, a buddy of mine texted me and said, "Yo, the, uh, David Koresh has a car for sale," and he knows I'm a car head, and I'm like-

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:54 Are you?

Joe Rogan 1:13:55 ... "Oh, I love cars." Especially old muscle cars.

Taylor Kitsch 1:13:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:57 I got a bunch of them. And I have a '69 Camaro, and I was thinking about... At that time, I didn't have any Camaros, but I was thinking about getting like a '68 or a '69 or a '67.

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:14:07 I like the '69s a little more, like a little wide body, but, uh, then I found out it was Koresh's car. I was like, "Whoa, that would be wild-"

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:13 Wild.

Joe Rogan 1:14:13 "... to drive to The Comedy Store-"

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:15 Holy fuck. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14:15 "... in David Koresh's Mustang."

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:16 In Texas.

Joe Rogan 1:14:17 Or David Koresh's Camaro rather, but then I thought about it. I said, "You know what? I don't want it. I don't want-"... anything-

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:24 ... from that guy. Don't want that energy.

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:25 It's the mojo, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:26 I don't want, I don't wanna hold his steering wheel.

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:29 No.

Joe Rogan 1:14:29 I don't wanna sit in his seat. I don't want it.

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:31 No, no.

Joe Rogan 1:14:32 I don't want it. Also, what a piece of shit. That guy's a, a preacher-

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:14:35 ... he's driving around in a muscle car. Like, for sure, right there and then, terrible singing-

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:38 What does that tell you?

Joe Rogan 1:14:39 ... and muscle car.

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:40 Ego, little bit of an ego.

Joe Rogan 1:14:41 He's, yeah, a lot of ego.

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:43 I mean, not that you can't, uh, enjoy mu- I love them. I think they're-

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:14:47 ... one of the greatest accomplishments of American engineering in terms of, like, a piece of functional artwork.

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:52 Yeah, fair.

Joe Rogan 1:14:52 American muscle cars, I love them.

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:54 I'm that way with moto- motorcycles too.

Joe Rogan 1:14:56 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Kitsch 1:14:56 And I got to set, we shot actually in, uh, Waco wanted nothing to do with us.

Joe Rogan 1:15:02 Of course.

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:02 So, yeah, rightfully so.

Joe Rogan 1:15:04 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:04 So we shot that in Santa Fe.

Joe Rogan 1:15:05 They like to change that in history.

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:07 (laughs) Yeah, man. And, uh, his c-

Joe Rogan 1:15:10 Waco's a great town, by the way.

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:12 It's great.

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:12 It's grown, like, enormously too.

Joe Rogan 1:15:14 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:14 Um, but, um, yeah, his motorcycle came for sale, and obviously they knew we were making it.

Joe Rogan 1:15:22 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:22 I kicked tires on it, and, uh, they wanted just... It was probably worth two grand, they wanted 15 or something, and it was just like, "Go fuck yourself." I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:15:30 Right, they were just trying to make money off that custom.

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:30 And what... Honestly, like you just said, "What am I gonna do with his moto?"

Joe Rogan 1:15:34 Yeah, I thought it was, I wa- I thought it was silly at first, and then after a while, I'd be like, "D- dog, I can't do this."

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:40 Yeah. I, w- when, before we opened up the Comedy Mothership in town, I was under contract for this place called the One World Theater that was also owned by a cult.

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:49 Here?

Joe Rogan 1:15:49 Yeah.

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:49 No way.

Joe Rogan 1:15:50 Yeah, the One World Theater, you know where it is? It's on B-

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:52 No.

Joe Rogan 1:15:52 Cave. Well, (laughs) this is what's fucked up (laughs) about the story.

Taylor Kitsch 1:15:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:15:56 Ron White performed there once 'cause they have concerts there. And Ron White did standup, and we were talking about opening up a club, and he said, (imitating Ron White) "You should buy that place down on B Cave. It's the fucking shit. It's a beautiful theater. I think it's for sale."

Taylor Kitsch 1:16:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:08 "I played there once, it's amazing." I was like, "All right. Well, Ron White's the fucking man."

Taylor Kitsch 1:16:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:12 "If he tells me, I'll go check it out." And I check it out, and I'm like, "Yeah, we could do this. Let's do it." And so signed the contracts, all that, and then I get a call from my friend Adam. He goes, "Hey, did you ever watch the documentary on that cult?" I'm like, "Oh, no."

Taylor Kitsch 1:16:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:16:24 "There's a documentary?"

Taylor Kitsch 1:16:26 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 1:16:26 And the documentary's called Holy Hell, and it's about a guy who was a gay porn star and a hypnotist-

Taylor Kitsch 1:16:31 This is-

Joe Rogan 1:16:31 ... that was a yoga instructor-

Taylor Kitsch 1:16:33 Oh, my God. Checking every box.

Joe Rogan 1:16:35 ... in West Hollywood, yep. So he was a yoga instructor in Hollywood, and then the cult in Waco gets taken down.

Taylor Kitsch 1:16:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:16:42 And then he is on the run now because now the Cult Awareness Network starts going after all these cults-

Taylor Kitsch 1:16:47 (laughs) Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 1:16:47 ... after Waco. They're like, "Hey, you know, people's children are getting kidnapped-"

Taylor Kitsch 1:16:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:50 "... essentially by these fucking maniacs, and you know, winds up being like Waco-"

Taylor Kitsch 1:16:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:54 "... we gotta stop these cults."

Taylor Kitsch 1:16:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:57 And so he moves to Austin and changes his name, and, uh, has a, a th- you know, this is the '90s, you could get away with changing your name.

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:06 Nobody, no internet.

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:07 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:17:07 And so this guy has his followers build him this theater so he can dance in front of them.

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:13 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 1:17:13 The documentary is bananas.

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:17:16 And I see the documentary, I'm like, "Oh, my God, I gotta get out of this." After I see the documentary, I'm like, "I gotta get out of this deal. I gotta get out." And fortunately, there was a problem. Fortunately, there was a pro- 'cause, you know, you got a bunch of cult members building a place-

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:29 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:29 ... they're not gonna do it to code.

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:31 No.

Joe Rogan 1:17:31 And so it was-

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:31 Just like his residence.

Joe Rogan 1:17:33 Yeah, there was a lot of-

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:34 ... shit that was wrong.

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:35 A lot of wacky shit they didn't wanna pay for. I'm like, "Good, let's just..." (claps hands)

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:38 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:17:38 So it cost me a little bit of money, and I got out of it.

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:17:41 And then we eventually got the Ritz on, on 6th Street. And that's the perfect spot anyway. But, uh, the, it was the thing of being in that building-

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:49 ... and knowing what happened, I'm like, "I can't handle this." To be-

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:53 Different energy there.

Joe Rogan 1:17:54 ... like, 100, 200 people wasted their life with this asshole-

Taylor Kitsch 1:17:58 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:17:58 ... for 20 fucking years. And there was a bunch of them crying at the end of the documentary, like, "I l- I lost my life."

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:05 "My life is meaningless now."

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:07 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:07 "I thought I was gonna be with them forever, and now I'm a dog walker." I'm like, "Oh, my God."

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:12 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:18:12 "I can't carry that-"

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:13 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:18:13 "... in this club. I can't feel it."

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:15 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no.

Joe Rogan 1:18:15 "I'd have to tear the building down."

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:17 In a comedy club of all places. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:18:18 Yeah. (laughs) I just thought it'd be silly.

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:20 You know, "Oh, building built by a cult."

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:22 "Perfect, we'll take it."

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:23 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:23 But the reality is, every cult winds up being the same thing. The guy wants all the money, and he wants to fuck everybody. It's, a- almost every one of them has the same profile.

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:32 And fear-based.

Joe Rogan 1:18:34 Always.

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:35 Always.

Joe Rogan 1:18:35 Always fear-based.

Taylor Kitsch 1:18:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:36 Always, "Everybody else is the enemy. (sniffs) I'm the solution." The nutty thing about this guy, though, is that he would do this thing to these people called the knowing, and you had to earn it. And when you earned it, it was this very special, ceremonious moment, and he would put his hands on their head, and he would do something to them, and these people would feel God. They would experience God. And I know that it has to be some sort of a placebo effect or psychosomatic-

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:04 Yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 1:19:04 ... some- something where your, your brain triggers this energy. But all these people that called him a fraud, that fucking hated him, "I wasted my..." They all talked about that moment like it was the greatest moment of their life still.

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:17 Ah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:17 They're like, "I gained a connection to God and to the universe that, to this day, was the most profound and loving moment of my life." It's like, yeah the guy was a total piece of shit. Scam artist-

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:30 ... con man-

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:31 ... liar-

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:32 ... everything was wrong, yet he was still capable of doing that thing to them. So-

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:38 Conditioned them-

Joe Rogan 1:19:40 I don't know.

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:40 ... over years. He had to be.

Joe Rogan 1:19:41 Well, he had them thinking about the moment, that it was gonna come one day.

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:45 And then he would take it away from them.

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:46 And then, and then one person would get it, and they would-

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:49 Just carried.

Joe Rogan 1:19:49 ... all sit around and watch.

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:50 And they're like, "When am I gonna get it?" But when they got it, they would all be like, "Naw."

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:19:56 It's, 'cause we know that the brain produces-

Taylor Kitsch 1:19:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:59 ... psychedelic chemicals. And I guess you can trick it, which is, I think-

Taylor Kitsch 1:20:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:03 ... what a near-death experience is. I think a near-death experience, your bo- your body's like, "Hey, it's over, flood the gates."

Taylor Kitsch 1:20:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:09 And then... (imitates energy flowing)

Taylor Kitsch 1:20:10 Yeah, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:20:11 It rolls through, and then you, you know, you go down the, the tunnel, and light and all the jazz, and you meet dead people.

Taylor Kitsch 1:20:16 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:17 But this is, I think this is possible with everybody. You just have to achieve the right state of mind.

Taylor Kitsch 1:20:23 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:20:23 I know people in Kundalini yoga, the people that are, like, heavy into it can f- fucking completely trip balls.

Taylor Kitsch 1:20:29 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:20:29 I had a buddy of mine who had done DMT.

Taylor Kitsch 1:20:32 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:33 ... and then he really... He'd done DMT a couple times, so he knew what the experience was. And then he really got into Kundalini yoga, and he was doing it for, like, six months. And then-

Taylor Kitsch 1:20:40 What is Kundalini-

Joe Rogan 1:20:42 It's a very-

Taylor Kitsch 1:20:42 ... yoga?

Joe Rogan 1:20:42 ... specific kind of yoga that involves, like, deep breath work and there's a lot of, like, head bobbing. It's very strange. But it's... You achieve a DMT-like state. He's like, "You achieve a full-on psychedelic experience doing Kundalini." And I was like, "Whoa." And I've always