EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,011 words- 0:00 – 1:11
Dialing in bowhunting distances and ethical shot choices
- NANarrator
(drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) No. 85?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Drop some headphones on, no trouble.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Damn.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you have to... Well, see, if you- if you're gonna shoot something at 45, you really wanna be comfortable at twice that.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
So I'll shoot 90, I'll shoot 100 yards.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Jesus.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah, because that way-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
That's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when you get into 40 it seems normal.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, right.
- JRJoe Rogan
It seems easy.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
It's the easy day.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's all just about, like, effective distance.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Would you take a shot at 85?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, no, no, no, no.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
That's far.
- JRJoe Rogan
You might take a follow-up shot. Like if you know-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... the animal's already gonna go down.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you can... If you can, you should always get a second shot on them.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So I'll take a second shot at 85, but I would never-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Have you had one and- and it just fucking ran, just gone?
- 1:11 – 3:00
Taylor’s first kill and the emotional reality of hunting
- TKTaylor Kitsch
So I've shot one deer in my life. And, uh, it was after Lone, and I was on Luttrell's-
- JRJoe Rogan
After Lone Survivor?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. And I was on with Luttrell and a couple other seals on his ranch. And, um, you know, you're surrounded by seals. So it's like, he's like, "Let's get you one." I'm like, "Yeah, let's go." And, uh, so we're on the ranch. Have you been there?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Oh, it's great. And, uh, I th- I don't know how many acres, but he had, used to have, like, giraffes on the ranch and shit. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
It was crazy. Uh, you would literally just be out there and there's a couple giraffes. And, uh, I think they're- they've- they're gone now. But we pull into this, like, opening and he's like, "There's gonna be some deer on the right." Lo and behold, couple deer. He's like, "Okay, take that one." Pull out the M4. Uh, we're pretty far but not crazy. And I'm nervous, man. Like, of- of course I've trained with the M4 and for Lone and all this stuff, but I've never, like, shot-shot. And so I hit it and he's like, "Fucking great shot. Let's- let's roll up." Roll up, no deer. And you can hear it though.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ooh.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And it's like, wah, just losing his fucking mind.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, no.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And I'm like, "Oh, fuck." And so the other seal, he's like, "Let's go." So we walk and walk and walk and finally get around this corner. And we have to put him down with a pistol. And I was like...
- JRJoe Rogan
Why'd you have to put him down with a pistol?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Just 'cause we walked right up on it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And it was...
- JRJoe Rogan
Just dying.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. And so I was just like, "Okay, this is part of it."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Um, and then we, you know, ate it and all that kind of stuff. But it was, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the good part.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, it really is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 3:00 – 5:06
Elk hunting intensity: calling, wind, adrenaline, and why bowhunting is different
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Um, but that was my one experience. But I did, I did go, uh, with my bro loves hunting. And, uh, we went out in Montana and there's, on a- on a friend's ranch and into the back country, and he was bow, and I love tracking animals for photography. So it's the same thing. Watching the wind, um, getting up fucking before light hits, just getting deep. You're way up there too.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Calling, all that kind of stuff. And, uh... (laughs) It's just so fun, and once you get in tight, your adrenaline's just buzzing. And we had eyes on this, like, big boy and, uh, so then I'm doing the... He's like working his way up the mountain, up this, uh, pass, and I'm doing the antlers against the tree and then the antlers and getting it angry, getting it worked up and it starts bugling even more. And you're like... I'm not even taking the shot. And I'm to Mike, "This is fucking legit."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And he, like, he pulls his fucking mask down and he's, like, getting into it. I see him, like, army crawling up there. Missed. But, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
... we had a blast. It's more of, like, a bonding experience, man, than anything for us. But yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a very intense experience, especially elk-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
It really is.
- JRJoe Rogan
... because they- they scream. And the-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Truly.
- JRJoe Rogan
... the sound, like, gives you goosebumps.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
It does.
- JRJoe Rogan
Especially when you're close to them.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. And it just goes through your body.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
It shakes you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, there's nothing like elk.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
I know. I know.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's, it's really fun.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But it takes a lot of work.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
It is... You earn it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
It's a different hunt, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Than just rifle. It's just... Rifle up there in, at least in that area, it's like sometimes your- your hunt's under an hour.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 5:06 – 5:24
From Austin roots to Montana life: Friday Night Lights memories and choosing a home base
- JRJoe Rogan
You live in Montana now?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
I do, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
How long you been out there?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Five... Just over five years now. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's awesome. What made you choose that?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, this... Man, flying into Austin. S- I was here 16 plus years, so it's just memory fucking lane. It's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Crazy. This is where it all started, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- 5:24 – 7:57
Boxing culture with Peter Berg: ‘Dirty Pete’ and training as creative fuel
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. Like, Friday Night Lights. Um, we were like school for the deaf just down the street. Uh, land in the airport. Uh, Dillon Field was just across the airport. So, so many memories of Pete and I. We were staying at the Four Seasons, shooting the pilot. Learned to box here at Richard Lord's. Um, if you don't know this guy, he's fucking amazing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Richard Lord?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, Richard Lord. There's a doc on him actually. He's up... I don't even know if he's still around. He was pretty old when- when, uh, he taught me how to box. But, um, wicked dude. Just Zen'd out. He was probably in his mid-60s, so he'd be up there now. But, um...... yeah, Pete literally was like, before we hit camera, it was like, "Hey, you wanna go box?" And I was like, "All right."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Fucking... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And I loved it. I loved it. And I still box.
- JRJoe Rogan
When you say Pete, you mean Peter Berg?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Pete Berg, yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, he loves boxing.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's got his own gym in-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
... L.A.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, yeah. Of course. I do not spar with him anymore. He's- it's- Dirty Pete is his fucking boxing name.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
I bet you he didn't fucking tell you that, did he? (laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) No. Why is it Dirty Pete?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Because he's earned that, man. He's, uh... So, you know, you'll do body shots only, or stuff like that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
... and spar, keep each other honest.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Um, but fuck, you get him once, it's- there's no rules.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
There's no rules. (laughs) And it's like, you're on camera in, like, a week or something like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, he tried to give you a leg up. (laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, man. And then you, like, take it, and you're kinda shocked at first. It just goes from, like, two to 11 so quick.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's funny.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
But yeah, I like- it's the best workout.
- JRJoe Rogan
We have a gym connected here, so last time he was here-
- 7:57 – 12:41
American Primeval: making Isaac authentic through Shoshone research and sweat lodges
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. Yeah. I learned so much on that, man. Um, I mean, living in Montana, I got to, uh, this cowgirl friend of mine who I met at that ranch, uh, had been working with this shaman just outside of Livingston, and I was telling her, I'm playing a guy that, kinda raised by Shoshone and all this, and, like, that was kinda where I hung my hat of, like, if this guy lost his family at six or seven, and then adopted or sold to the Shoshone, this is who he is. He's more Shoshone than he is white. So I started working with this shaman, uh, which was incredible, and then, um, went down to the Shoshone reservation, Wind River, worked with the elders there. It's tough, man, 'cause obviously going there, you're like (laughs) ... And they knew I was coming, but it's like, you're talking to these elders, and it's like, we meet five minutes in, and I'm like, "So, what do you- what do you guys do when you bury your wife?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And you're asking these heavy, heavy questions.
- JRJoe Rogan
Cultural questions.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
That is true meaning behind it all. So she took a long beat, and she's like, "I'll get back to you on that. I'll get back to you on that." And then I went into this other room at the school there, and this other elderly woman comes in a wheelchair, and she sits there, and she's like, "What do you wanna know?" And so we just sat there for hours, and she was incredibly transparent, and just really open. And I would take all this and go to Pete and be like, "Listen, if we're gonna- we gotta honor these guys, so let's do it right." And he was all ears. And, uh, the Shoshone was very tough to learn.
- JRJoe Rogan
When you say, "Working with a shaman," like, what did, what did you do?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. So we'll do, like, two-hour sweats, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like a sweat lodge?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
How- how do they have that set up? Like a fire in the middle of it or something?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
It's, yeah, so it's, uh, fire is always burning, uh, before you start the sweat, and then he'll grab river rocks from Yellowstone, uh, River, and then the fire's going, and he'll bring these rocks that are in the fire into the middle of the sweat lodge, and, uh, there's four doors to this one, and, uh, you'll talk, you'll fast the day before, and, um, you'll- he'll put the river rocks in the middle, and they're smoking hot, right? And then he brings river water from a spring or whatever, um, and then you have... You fast, and then you, uh, have your intention ties. So you would sit down with him for an hour or two, and talk about what you want out of this. Um, sometimes it's like, do I wanna have a kid, or a buddy of mine was using heroin for something, so I would bring him and have a sweat, and just give him my energy in the sweat to help him, or my dad passed or something, or some- it can be light too. It doesn't have to be so heavy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Um, but he's been amazing. Like, before, like, I start a movie in a couple weeks, and I'm just gonna go do a sweat, and get ready for that, and I just- whatever he's gonna- energy he's gonna give me to go into this shoot, um, and then for the- for Primeval, it was fucking beautiful. Like, I wasn't a good rider, I'm still not, on horses, and, uh, he gave me... Like, my horse has a feather, if you really watch, he's- I have four horses in it, but my first horse has a feather in him, and I wanted to do all these in honor of the horses, uh, which obviously the Shoshone do. Um, so he, he just taught me a shit ton about just to honor that tribe, and honor what, what they do and, and to be as authentic as possible, so that helped me root Isaac so much. But yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow, that's a- such an intense character.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't know, imagine, like, you're playing a guy who's a white guy, who's, like, deeply ingrained with Native American life, and so it's like, it's all- it's very conflicted, there's a lot going on there, but you want- you- you wanna embody what this guy would be like.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. Yeah, and y- you're- you meet him when he's mourning, right?And he's lost his wife and his son, and he married into the tribe. Uh, so the f- the female chief, I married h- her daughter and had a son. And, um, so when you meet Isaac, he's just in mourning. And everything is full circle, everything is circular with them, so the only way he could reunite with his family is to, is to die honorably, so that influences the way I fight. So the way Isaac fights is all in.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wild.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Wild. Like biting ... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 12:41 – 15:10
No-choreography fight scenes: rolling downhill into an icy river with Berg’s style
- TKTaylor Kitsch
I had, I just got chills thinking about this. There's a fight, I think, in episode two which was fucking insane, and we didn't rehearse. This is very Berg. And we have these, one guy's Blackfeet, unbelievable guy, and I kept using him because he's a great stuntman. And, um, so Pete's like, "You guys are gonna fucking roll down this hill, and I want you to fight your way to the river, and then we'll cut, and then w- I want you to fight in the river." This is like maybe 28 degrees in that river.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
The safety guy is like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." (laughs) "This is not cool." And this is all, like, on the go. So J.J. Dashnaw, my double, is like all in. He loves this. This is th- near the end of the shoot too, so. And, uh, everyone's game. And, um, that fight was just so fucking intense.
- JRJoe Rogan
So is it choreographed at all?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Nothing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Nothing?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Literally nothing.
- JRJoe Rogan
So how do you know, like, when he's gonna punch or you're gonna punch?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. So during, if it's you and me, it's like you, we'll walk the area, make sure there's no, uh, sticks or whatever that were gonna impale us, and during the fight I'll be like, "Okay, I'm gonna flip you."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh wow.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And then it's like, "Okay, I'm gonna get on top." And then-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, so you have to say it?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. And then Pete will be yelling behind camera to be like, "Okay, now work your way on top of him, and then we'll fight, work our way, roll, work our way." And then he's like, "Okay, find a rock. Kill him."
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus Christ. (laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
(laughs) And then that war cry, which I'm so proud of, I worked on that forever. But, uh, and I had talked to Pete about it for, you know, months before but we were just rolling so quick. And I told our A camera, Brett, to, uh, get in tight. I mean, any shot with Pete is fucking tight, which I love. Um, and I'm like, "B, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this war cry. So don't go down to him or ..." And he's like, "Gotcha." And so when I did it, Pete finally called cut and he goes, "What the fuck?"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
"I was not fucking ready for that." And, uh, it's those moments though that, that he allows you to just go, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he's such a smart guy.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
He is, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's such a-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
When he's dialed, he's like ...
- 15:10 – 22:22
Lone Survivor prep: live fire, simunitions, and learning leadership under pressure
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
... Lone, he was just so present and early, and he just, w- I mean, we were surrounded by SEALs, as you know, every take. And, um, I don't think you could do what we did to f- in prep of just like, no producers, no Pete, no nothing. It's just every morning, 7:00 AM, 8:00 AM, we're up in the mountain, uh, with SEALs, with Ray Mendoza and, uh, amazing guys. And, uh, we s- oh, first week is like first day, man. I'm Canadian so I haven't shot a fucking gun in my life. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And-
- JRJoe Rogan
The first time you ever shot a gun was in Lone Survivor?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
W- yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's hilarious.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
So first, Chris Karachi, who's a fucking legend, a man's man, um, and he, I think he was like one of the, on the first team, uh, SEAL team units, and the deepest voice you've ever heard in your life, and like a fucking man. And, uh, he took me under his wing, and so our first day was live fire. And Karachi took me aside, he's like, "Hey, it's you and me." And I'm like, "Let's go." And I'm like as fit as I ever have been. I was running Town Lake doing the Murph every fucking three times a week with weighted vests. And, uh, just at Lake Travis High School there doing pull-ups, and it was unbelievable fun training for that. And, um, first day was live fire, and that fucking gets you right. That d- you do not fuck around, and, uh, they make sure of it. And then, uh, I haven't, I hadn't met Markus yet, and Foster, uh, had drove down I think from Texas to, uh, New Mexico with, with Latrell. I was pretty jealous of that. I was like, "Ah, you got to spend some real time with Markus." And I was playing Mike obviously, and, and, uh, who is Markus' best friend. And so we're on this fucking range doing live fire, like upside down reloads, combat reloads, jamming, blindfold, it was just, it was full on. And Emile's actually a great shot. Um, Markus comes, everything goes full stop, and right when he's coming there's a PA on the other side, and she's bringing fucking banana, uh, shakes out, which is not a good look for these actors.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And Markus looks at these shakes, and he looks at the actors, and he's like, "What the fuck is happening? You guys don't get shakes in between fights." (laughs) And one of the actors just shamelessly goes up and grabs one of these banana shakes, and he's just talking to Markus-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
... meeting him for the first time. (laughs) And I'm like, "You might wanna put that down." Like wait 'til he fucking leaves before-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
But, and then, uh, it's just a beautiful experience, man. Um-... the second week of training, we were doing simunitions. Have you done that?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Oh, you would love it. So this'll break skin, and, uh, they hurt. It's like a hard plastic, paint-tipped, and they fly like that, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
They arc?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause they don't go as fast?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And, uh, so we have sims now, and Mike would... I- my guy decides if we push left, push right, if we engage, get the fuck outta here, let's buy ourselves some time, whatever. I gotta make these calls. And, um, so the SEALs are in tally gear, and they're like, "Go up the mountain."
- JRJoe Rogan
What's tally gear?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Taliban gear.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
They're all dressed in tally gear. So we meet up at the bottom of this fucking mountain, and they're all in Taliban gear, and you're like, "Oh, God."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
We're so fucked. So they're like, "Give us 10 minutes, and, uh, when you get ambushed, we're gonna watch, and we're gonna engage, and we're gonna see what you do, see what you've learned in the last week." And you're like, "All right. Let's go." So it happens, and you're just walking, right? Just like we are in the film. You're just walking and waiting to get ambushed. You know shit's about to hit. And so they hit, and you hit the ground right away to figure out where the bullets are coming, and, uh, and you can hear 'em, which really sets you straight. And so I'm looking over at Emile, and I'm like, "Fucking, uh, 12 o'clock." They're just straight up in these trees. I'm like, "12 o'clock. Fucking push right." We gotta get the... 'Cause we're in this open field. I just got chills. We're in this open field, and I'm like, "Get to fucking cover, dude." (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
"We gotta fucking fight our way to cover." And Emile's, like, taking his time, and he's like, "Bro, ah, fuck. All right. It's fucking intense." (laughs)
- 22:22 – 37:16
Why Taylor loves prep: crushing self-doubt, honoring real people, and the ‘parking lot’ death scene
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Long- I love prep.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
So, yeah, I do. Yeah. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Why, why do you love that?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
The more time I can root myself into this guy, especially when the stakes are so high like Murph, um... I mean, physically, uh, was... I did this little comedy, uh, in Canada, and if you watch (laughs) this movie... And I was training for Lone during this movie, so it's called Skirwink Trail, um, in Newfoundland. Beautiful fucking trail. And it's me, my best friend of 30 years, and my assistant, who is a great guy. And we're training for Lone, getting ready, doing, like, 50-pound runs, uh, weighted vests, all this kind of stuff up Skir- Skirwink Trail. So if you watch (laughs) this movie, like at the beginning to the end, my body goes from like this to just fucking stacked in this movie. And so there's that, but obviously, 90% of this is mental, right? The SEALs? And so, um, I just love that. I love the prep. I love that pressure. Pete did a beautiful thing bringing nine... 19 guys died on the op., uh, and the rescue mission, so it was like... He brought all the families, uh, I think it was a week before we hit camera, and, um, man, d- you know, I'm going... It's... I'm in the elevator at the Hyatt in, uh, Santa Fe or Nu- or, uh, Albuquerque, and I'm fucking nervous, like throw up nervous, 'cause I'm meeting Dan Murphy now. And I'm like, "Did I do enough? Am I really fucking ready? Am I worthy of this shit?" And then we all have that fucking voice in our head that's like, "You're a pile of shit. You didn't do enough." (laughs) "You're not ready." And that's why I prep so much, because it eliminat- it's like a fight, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
UFC or anything, these guys fucking... You prep to eliminate that self-doubt so you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
... can be like, "I'm fucking ready for you." You know? So it's the same mentality. And so that was, um...... my first words to Dan were like, "I'm gonna everything I have into this. I'm gonna do it as authentically as I know how." And he was just so fucking gracious with me. Gave Mike's fi- uh, uh, firefighter, uh, patch, and just told me some amazing stories. And I'm super close with the Murphy family still. But, um, I love prep, man. I think it's... You gotta have it, especially with Pete's process. Like, if you're... He, he's so off the cuff sometimes, and if it's an idea he has on the day, which he really leans into his gut instinct, and obviously that's guided him pretty fucking beautifully, but you just gotta be ready for anything. And if you don't prep, you're not rooted, you're not ready for anything, you know? So, um, that one was a special one. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you... Wh- what... When you get into a character, like, like when, if you're doing Lone Survivor, do you try to stay in that character all day long? Like, do you try to, do you break for lunch and just be yourself?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. I try, for sure. But you're still-
- JRJoe Rogan
You try to stay in the character?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
No, I try and be-
- JRJoe Rogan
You try to be yourself?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
I try and be with you in the moment.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
At lunch. And not... Even though, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's gotta be weird though, right?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
It is weird because (laughs) you're having-
- JRJoe Rogan
You're on location.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yep. On-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
On top of the fucking mountain.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
You're taking the ski lift up there.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it's so important to be this guy.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. Yeah. And then you're having lunch with the Taliban guys.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
You know? (laughs) And they're coming, and they're like, "Hey man, we're big fans."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, God.
- 37:16 – 39:39
Ibogaine, veterans, and addiction recovery: Taylor’s sister and the origins of Howler’s Ridge
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you been paying attention to what they're doing in Texas for veterans?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
This ibogaine initiative?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Awesome.
- JRJoe Rogan
Huge.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Awesome.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's, it's so remarkable how effective it is.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And how many people i- it's completely saved their life and changed their life.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? And I was just thinking about that for your sister. You know, I don't know-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, she's clean 10 years now. Just under 10.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, that's awesome.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's amazing.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, thanks. Uh, she's a nurse now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Which is incredible.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's great.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Um, yeah, she's, uh, uh, it's really kind of, like, that's where that nonprofit comes from. Um, I just started it. It's called Howler's Ridge. And, um, I didn't even know, like, when she got clean, like, there's some fucking crazy stories I can tell you. Um, but she's, she got clean and she hit me up and she was at a Sober Escape with all the girls she got clean with. And I'm like, "What is that?" And it's basically a reunion with all the people that you went through your sober living or whatnot. The last place she got clean was n- She was supposed to be there 90 days. She was there nine months.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. (laughs) That's what I said. Um, and, uh, so she was at this Sober Escape. And so Howler's Ridge is basically a place, I think we all know an addict if we're not ourselves. And, uh, and we're gonna help vets as well. But it's the sober side of addiction. So it's a place anytime you're using, at least through my experience watching my sister die a couple times, get Narcan'd a couple times. I mean, sh- I've seen her detox on my fucking kitchen floor, which is the worst fucking sight of anybody, to watch someone in so much pain. Um, but, um, this, this spot is for her, you know, where, where it all started. And, and this is, I think anytime you're using, right, we're all habitual humans. You work out six, seven times a week. Uh, you need that for your brain. So do I. And once you get in that habit, I change. If I don't work out in three, four days, I'm a fucking asshole. And I get depressed.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Like, I get-
- JRJoe Rogan
Anxious.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, very.
- 39:39 – 59:54
Inside the rehab economy: withdrawal, relapse, financial exploitation, and rock bottom
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And I think with my sis, I just didn't have anywhere to take her, and I needed to pull her out, 'cause there was a time I, she relapsed like four or five times in LA and I was just finishing True Detective when I got her. And, uh, I mean, there's stories, but like, it's pretty fucked up, that whole system, 'cause you have someone that's dying, right? It's someone you raised or your brother or fucking best friend, whatever. And, uh, I bring her to this ... Well, first she had to detox, which is an incredible story. (laughs) Um, my mom calls me and she's like, "She's been using for this long." And I go full hero mode. I didn't even know what fentanyl was.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, I didn't. This is right after True Detective. I really wasn't exposed to it. I knew heroin, of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
So what is this like 12, 13 years ago? How long ago?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, right in there. Whenever the end of-
- JRJoe Rogan
You didn't know what, you didn't know what fentanyl was?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
I knew, I knew like with the SEALs, um, they had fentanyl patches for the pain.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And then of course, like, but that's really all I fucking, if that. Like, obviously I educated myself on it after and it's 20 to 25 times worse than heroin. It's a deathbed drug. It put you to sleep. And, um, so I got this call and I'm like, "I'll get her sober in two weeks, bring her down." Like, hero mode. And she comes and I had no idea what was go- And she had used right before she flew. And so she was in withdrawal.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, God.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Oh, God is fucking right, man. And your muscle contractions are so bad that I had this little one bedroom apartment in Marina Del Rey, 15, like literally a hallway from here about this long actually. And it's late and, um, she's just pacing 'cause she can't sit still 'cause the muscle contractions are so bad.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And I'm like, "Chels, just take, go to bed. Take my bed and just try and sleep." She's like, "No, no, no, no. You don't understand. I have to move." And so she tried sleeping, going, laying down. Muscle contractions were so bad she fell off the bed. And, uh, I'm like, "Okay, let's go for a walk." Li- And the beauty of our relationship and what I think was a huge factor in getting her clean was the transparency. Like, "You gotta fucking be real with me. Tell me when you used, tell me how often," like everything. She did, which is so tough to hear. Um, and so we ended up walking down Abbot Kinney at 3:00 in the morning. And no one's obviously out there and we just did this crazy walk and talk, and I'll never forget it. And, uh, it's just heartbreaking. And I get her and I call, um, I don't even know if she needs to detox, so I call the hospital, Marina Del Rey, and they're like, "No. We don't take anybody that's using right now. You, they have to be detoxed and we may be able to help them after." So I'm like, "Okay, what the fuck is ... Okay, we got, we gotta detox." And, um, so I call this place and they're like an hour away and she's like, "I have a bed for her." And, "Bring her at 6:00 AM." I mean, I got this little Wrangler, w- a two-door Wrangler, and she's in the back seat, my mom in the front, and she's like almost kicking the fucking glass out 'cause of the muscle contractions of my Jeep. And I was like, "Holy ... Like, such a wake-up call to ... I had no idea it was this bad." So reality's kinda setting in. And, um, she kept asking for methadone. "I want methadone." 'Cause she had detoxed before on methadone and, um-And so I go to this fucking house, and I knock on the door and she's in the back seat. She's got her little backpack. And it's this fucking woman, like, butchy in- like, presence. She opens the door. She's like, just a matter of fact, "Where's your sis?" And I'm like, "Oh, she's grabbing her bag." She's like, "Well, bring her here." I'm like, "Okay." Sh- uh, "Shells, let's go." She comes and Shells is like, "I need..." Doesn't say hi, nothing. She's like, "I need methadone." And she goes, "Well, when did you use blah, blah, blah," and all this. And she tells her and she's like, "Oh, you haven't even bottomed out yet. We don't treat drugs with drugs here, honey. You're gonna, you're gonna have some Gatorade and some topical muscle relaxer, and you're gonna sweat this out." (laughs) And Shel- it's funny now, but Shelby goes to her knees, and she's like, "I need methadone." She goes, "No, no, no. What did I just say?" And she's like, "You're getting Gatorade, muscle relaxer, and you're gonna watch some movies. And you can-
- NANarrator
Whoa.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
... smoke. No phone." She was incredible. Four and a half days later, she called me and she's like, "Your sister's good. Bring her to a sober living just by Venice High." And it's thirty thou- like, when someone's fucking almost ready to go, you're, "I'll do anything," right? And they know this. And so it's 30,000 for the month.
- NANarrator
Jesus.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And it's sober living, you'll have one session, which isn't enough, uh, 'cause she has some trauma. And, um, uh, with a psych. And I was like-
- NANarrator
One in 30 days?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
One every week.
- NANarrator
Oh.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And I was like, "We need lot more than one a week." And, um, so I dr- and my sis was a runner. And, uh, so you sign this fucking contract and it's like, if she runs, if she leaves, if she does this, this, this, and that, you, she's out. We kick her out, and we keep your money. Two hours in, gone.
- NANarrator
Ohh.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
I get a call (laughs) yeah. I get a call from this LA number, and I'm like, "No fucking way." Okay, there's 30 grand gone. I'm gonna find another one. She went to another one, little better, cool, yeah, got twice a week. Two days later she runs again. So I'm down 65K in three days. (laughs)
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And I'm like, bleeding cash. And then I figure out, like, another spot. She stayed, like, 30 days, relapsed, and then, um, yeah, she kept relapsing and then, uh, multiple times. Narcan'd up in Calabasas, there's a place, and she left. And, uh, this one girl, she had, uh, night terrors. And, um, so, they would, she had, I would walk around, Joe, with this fucking, uh, Ziploc bag of pills, of like, antidepressants, for her night terrors, sleeping pills, all these things to just take away this trauma, for whatever beat it would be within her, right? And there's an amazing doc up there, an South African guy that deals with women addicts and trauma, and, uh, she was there for a while, and that was really great. And she got a hold of these sleeping pills, and they're supposed to give you one every night, and the girl put the bottle up on the little half door. You know those doors, swinging doors?
- NANarrator
Mm-hmm.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. And, um, so she grabbed the bottle, and she was, as a lot of these sober livings are, they're pretty incestuous and, and the guys sleep with the girls, vice versa obviously, and um, she was dating a g- a kid named Mike there. And so she went to m- that part of the house and said goodbye to Mike. And to this kid's credit, um, he was like, "That's a little weird. You didn't say goodnight, you just said goodbye." And so she goes up, hammers 60-something sleeping pills-
- NANarrator
Oh, Jesus.
- 59:54 – 1:04:29
Comfort is the enemy: fear of failure, balancing life, and why hard things keep you honest
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Even like, me with acting, it's, like I live for it. I love it, and I honestly do believe I've just worked my way through stubbornly. Like, I'll just outwork people. It's not like I was gifted this talent or... It truly isn't. I'll just outwork people, and then now it's like 44 now, which is crazy. And, um, now I'm starting to be like, "Okay, you're thinking about kids. You're thinking about..." I need a little more balance.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
But then I start this balance, and it scares the fuck out of me and I don't like it.
- JRJoe Rogan
How does it scare you?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Just, it's the comfort, right? It's like, "Oh, Kitch, don't take this. Just go keep fly fishing. Keep, you know, just go on a motorcycle trip. Go..." Which is great, and I'll still do it, but I'm just so conscious of it, of like, "Don't get fucking comfortable."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
"Don't think."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
"Don't rest on your-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
"... work." You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Comfort's not bad if you earn it.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
But you gotta earn the fuck out of it.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Where like, when you're sitting on that couch, you know that you actually need to recover. Like-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, true.
- JRJoe Rogan
... if you're gonna keep going, you need to recover. So, like, watching South Park is probably good for you.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Actually like medicine.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? Just fucking let me just zone out and jiggle.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
True, true.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
But there is that, I think... I don't know, do you have that with the- the fear of failure still of just like...
- JRJoe Rogan
Of it all falling apart?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
That-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
... and like, I'm on set in two weeks, and I'm fucking scared.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 1:04:29 – 1:11:51
The body as instrument: injuries, extreme weight cuts, and the cost of realism
- TKTaylor Kitsch
That scene, I lost a bunch of weight for it. Um, and then, uh, Howard Berger did my makeup for that, and he's fucking incredible. And, uh, that scene, man, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
That scene meant a lot because it's-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
It's everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
You saw who that guy-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
It's everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
... is raw, naked.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
With his Shoshone brother.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And wakes up with a yelp.
- JRJoe Rogan
Starving, covered in scars.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And then goes into that, uh, teepee with the chief-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
... the m- the mother of his wife that he lost. And I wrote that scene, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And so Pete, Pete and I came up with "It's Only Pain," and then I, I broke my foot and got a fucking bone cut out of it on this, that show. And you know the scene where-
- JRJoe Rogan
You had a bone cut out of it?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Why'd they cut a bone out?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
So there's a scene where I go down to get horses, and I kill five or six guys at this skinning camp, and I think it's episode two. And Betty Gilpin, who's amazing, comes down, and she's, like, didn't trust me, and she comes down, and I have to kill these guys. During that sequence, uh, I broke this, my foot, and they call cut, and I go to, uh, Dash Na, the stunt coordinator, and, um, I'm like, "Oh, it's broken." And he's like ... I've worked with him for 15 years, and he's like, "Don't fuck with me." And I'm like, "No. Dash, it's broken." And I got this shooting pain in my groin, and he's like, "Get the fuck outta here," and I'm like, "Yeah." So finish the scene, and they, they spray fucking Biofreeze on my foot, and I'm like, "Guys, it's broken." Like, "I'm fucked." And so I go to Bozeman, and he's like, "It's this small bone right on the side of your foot, right there, that goes up and down right here."
- JRJoe Rogan
Next to your toe?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Uh, connecting my big toe. It's on the side bone on my big toe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
And, uh, so he's like, "Oh, you can wear a boot. It's a small bone, so you won't need to, it'll heal itself." So I go back, and I'm in a boot doing this fucking show. And I got a six-foot-six, uh, wrangler. So when I get off that horse, 90% of the time ... I think his name's BJ. Great dude, big cowboy. Um, and he's below me off camera taking my weight, 'cause I can't step off the horse-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
... 'cause I'm in a fucking boot.
- JRJoe Rogan
Medical boot.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 1:11:51 – 2:19:51
Playing David Koresh and the psychology of cults: fear, manipulation, and ‘Bible-speak’ as a weapon
- JRJoe Rogan
What is it like doing that movie? 'Cause it's another real life-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. That was, I was just prepping right there too. Um, that was almost too long a prep. Here's me saying I love prep, but I had six months to get into that head space, and it just... The last month, I tried to pull out of the show.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, because I was just, this is... I was just, you're holding, hoarding all this energy, and you, I lost the weight learning to play guitar and sing, which was a fucking comedy. Um, I'm fucking terrible.
- JRJoe Rogan
He was terrible too, though.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. Yeah, he was.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
That literally helped me.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
I would listen to Dave, and I'd be like, "Wow."
- JRJoe Rogan
"That guy sucks."
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah. (laughs) He's shit. (laughs) Genuinely helped me.
- JRJoe Rogan
I have no idea how he got people to follow him with that fucking terrible singing.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
(laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
If I was in that call, I'd be like, "Yo, this, we gotta reevaluate. This guy is not Christ."
- TKTaylor Kitsch
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
"He is not the leader."
- TKTaylor Kitsch
"He's actually kind of fucking terrible, right? Should we leave?"
- JRJoe Rogan
"He's, he sucks. His music sucks."
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Uh, yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- TKTaylor Kitsch
But-
- JRJoe Rogan
Just, what is it like getting in the head space of someone who's that depraved too? And, and who has that kind of, like, sick control-
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... over people?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Why? Figure out the why.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Why?
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you figure it out?
- TKTaylor Kitsch
Yeah, I think so.
Episode duration: 2:46:41
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