Joe Rogan Experience #2395 - Mariana van Zeller

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)

   2. MZMariana van Zeller0:12

      Is there really nothing for you? That glass of wine is so nasty. (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Yeah. W- one glass of wine I do not think is bad for you. Uh, it's not-

   4. MZMariana van Zeller0:18

      Yeah, that's all I have.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      ... great for you.

   6. MZMariana van Zeller0:20

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      But a glass of wine relaxes you and there's probably benefit in being relaxed.

   8. MZMariana van Zeller0:24

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      Yeah.

   10. MZMariana van Zeller0:25

       I agree.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       But the problem was I own a nightclub and I'm there all the time.

   12. MZMariana van Zeller0:29

       Yeah, so you're drinking an half in a glass.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       And I'm, you know, out with the fellas and then I'd maybe have a couple glasses of whiskey on a podcast with some guys.

   14. MZMariana van Zeller0:36

       Right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       And then ... When I stopped, I was like, "Oh my God, I feel so much better." (laughs) Like, why was I poisoning myself? (laughs)

   16. MZMariana van Zeller0:42

       Really, you did feel much better?

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Yeah.

   18. MZMariana van Zeller0:43

       Immediately you felt it?

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Yeah, because, uh, when you think about it ... We rolling?

   20. NANarrator0:47

       Yeah, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       So, when I stopped drinking, uh, I was probably having, like, two or three glasses of some kind of alcohol a night, two or three nights a week.

   22. MZMariana van Zeller0:59

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       And then I'd go out to dinner with my wife and have, like, a glass or two of wine. That's a lot of drinks-

   24. MZMariana van Zeller1:04

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       ... over the week. And you don't think it's much 'cause you're not drunk, but the next day I'd be like, ugh, like a little draggy.

   26. MZMariana van Zeller1:11

       Right.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Like when I go to the gym. And that's gone.

   28. MZMariana van Zeller1:15

       That's great.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:15

       Yeah. Just-

   30. MZMariana van Zeller1:16

       I wish I had that ass strength. (laughs)
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   To the police? …

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      what benefit to them.

   2. MZMariana van Zeller15:02

      To the police?

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:03

      Yeah, for them-

   4. MZMariana van Zeller15:04

      Money?

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:04

      No. Uh, b- but for them... No, for them to talk to you.

   6. MZMariana van Zeller15:07

      Which, which one? The-

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:08

      The... Any of them. Like, the... especially the cops.

   8. MZMariana van Zeller15:12

      So, uh, it's, uh, the question that I get the m-... The cops d- didn't talk-... We didn't get the cops to talk to us.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:15

      So, you got it from the people that sold-

   10. MZMariana van Zeller15:18

       We got it from the gang member, yeah, who sold the guns.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:20

       That the cops sold the guns to.

   12. MZMariana van Zeller15:22

       Yes. So, I've spo- I've spoken to cops who are doing amazing work here in the US in combating drug trafficking and, and gun trafficking, and in Mexico as well. Um, but, um, but these, we're talking about corrupt cops, so we... Yeah, that was not the case. Uh, this was a gang member telling me how he had acquired those guns from LAPD, confiscated guns that he had acquired from LAPD.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:43

       But even that, like, what would be the benefit to him-

   14. MZMariana van Zeller15:45

       For him?

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:45

       ... to talk to you?

   16. MZMariana van Zeller15:46

       I think... For... So, in that case, it went back to my contacts in Sinaloa, and I think it's three reasons why people talk to us. Think the first one is ego. People want to boast. And if you're part of the Sinaloa cartel or even if you're a boss in the Sinaloa cartel, and you're... there's an ongoing war between you, a turf war between you and another gang like the C and, and j- JNG, uh, which is a cartel, uh, Jalisco, um, they're, y- they're fighting for power, right? So, here's a opportunity to show how powerful you were, are. So, it's ego, right?

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:18

       Mm-hmm.

   18. MZMariana van Zeller16:18

       And a lot of these people that talk to me, I don't... You know, very often, or more often than not, it's not the bosses or the kingpins that I'm talking to, right? It's the sicarios. It's the middle and low-level people. It's the traffickers. It's the chemists, the smugglers. It's not the kingpins. And for them, they spend their whole lives doing something that sometimes their own families don't know they're... they do. Like, I remember, uh, an episode we did about counterfeit money, people who make fake US, uh, dollars and euros in Peru, in Lima. And this guy, like shiny eyes, so excited, showing me how he finishes these bills to make it look and feel and smell exactly like $100 bill. And when I asked him... And he's a taxi driver by day, and he does this by night. And, and, uh, and I was asking him, "Uh, so why did you accept talking to us?" He says, "Look, my wife doesn't even know how good I am. I am the best of the best at doing this. Like, nobody in the whole world can make this as well as I do, and I always wanted to be able to talk to somebody and show off how good my skills are."

   19. JRJoe Rogan17:24

       (laughs)

   20. MZMariana van Zeller17:24

       "And you're giving me an opportunity to do this."

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:26

       That's crazy. (laughs)

   22. MZMariana van Zeller17:27

       So, I think ego plays a huge role, and then impunity, like in places like Mexico, so much corruption. Like, what's the downside to talking-

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:34

       Right.

   24. MZMariana van Zeller17:34

       ... to this woman who comes and asks funny questions, right?

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:37

       Right.

   26. MZMariana van Zeller17:38

       And then, and then I think it's the wanting to be understood. I think everybody-

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:42

       Mm-hmm.

   28. MZMariana van Zeller17:42

       ... wants to be understood, and they know they're considered the bad guys. They know that, uh, you know, um, you know, there's so much stigma around what they do. And I tell everybody, "I'm here to try to understand what you do. I'm not here to judge you, because I think it's much more important to understand why you do what you do."

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:59

       The guy who makes counterfeit bills, what's his process?

   30. MZMariana van Zeller18:02

       Oh, it's freaking fascinating.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Well, that's great. …

   1. MZMariana van Zeller30:00

      from our show, and I'm in touch with a lot of them.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:01

      Well, that's great.

   3. MZMariana van Zeller30:02

      So it's been, it's been good.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:03

      It might just be because they're not trying.

   5. MZMariana van Zeller30:06

      I, I really, realistically don't think it's be- it's not because they don't know that these, who they are or where they are. It's not that law enforcement is blind to this.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:15

      Right.

   7. MZMariana van Zeller30:15

      Um, I think it's, it's, uh, unwillingness sometimes to go after this. It's realizing that actually these are the low level guys and what they really want is to get at the big guys, the kingpins-

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:27

      Right.

   9. MZMariana van Zeller30:27

      ... which is a better strategy anyway.

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:28

       But isn't that sometimes how they do it? They get a little guy and get him to turn?

   11. MZMariana van Zeller30:32

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:32

       Yeah.

   13. MZMariana van Zeller30:33

       Yeah. Absolutely. Um-

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:34

       Oof.

   15. MZMariana van Zeller30:35

       Yeah. But, uh, yeah-

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:36

       What a terrifying world that only exists because of an illegal market that the United States fuels.

   17. MZMariana van Zeller30:42

       Yeah. The biggest drug consumers in the world.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:45

       We're number one.

   19. MZMariana van Zeller30:45

       The largest. Number one.

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:47

       We're number one.

   21. MZMariana van Zeller30:48

       Number one.

   22. JRJoe Rogan30:48

       We're number one. (laughs)

   23. MZMariana van Zeller30:48

       I mean, number one in incarcerations, number one... It's $150 billion, um-

   24. JRJoe Rogan30:53

       Wow.

   25. MZMariana van Zeller30:53

       ... in drugs that we spend every year.

   26. JRJoe Rogan30:55

       That's so crazy.

   27. MZMariana van Zeller30:56

       It is crazy. And, you know, we share this border with Mexico, which is fortunate and very unfortunate for them.

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       Right.

   29. MZMariana van Zeller31:03

       They, they blame us for creating the consumer market, we blame th- them for creating the, the drugs that feed this consumer market. And there's no-

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:11

       Is there anyone that has a realistic solution to how to at least mitigate some of that?
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      forces guys, a lot of SEALs and Green Berets. They come back from combat and they're all fucked up and some of their friends take them on ayahuasca journeys.

   2. MZMariana van Zeller45:07

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:08

      And that helps them a lot. So that's another, like, doorway into the right because people on the right have always thought of psychedelics as being for losers and hippies and people just trying to escape life. But just the sheer horror of combat experience has forced a lot of people to reconsider this position and then they've had so many family members that are veterans and that are, you know, especially, especially guys that are like in the heart of combat.

   4. MZMariana van Zeller45:36

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:36

      And then they come back and they, they're just fucked up and no one wants to help them. Nobody can just talk you through it.

   6. MZMariana van Zeller45:43

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:43

      And the one thing that I don't want to say universally, but, uh, a high percentage have had great success with is psychedelics.

   8. MZMariana van Zeller45:52

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:52

      So I think it's another massive disservice that those are lumped in, in the same illegal category as fentanyl.

   10. MZMariana van Zeller45:59

       As fentanyl. I know.

   11. JRJoe Rogan46:00

       Yeah.

   12. MZMariana van Zeller46:00

       Or, or meth. I know.

   13. JRJoe Rogan46:02

       Or meth, yeah.

   14. MZMariana van Zeller46:02

       Yeah. I agree.

   15. JRJoe Rogan46:03

       But do you think that the pathway is legalization? Because like even decriminalization, where you gonna get it? You're gonna get ... See, here's the problem with decriminalization. In California, um, my friend John Norris-

   16. MZMariana van Zeller46:19

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan46:20

       ... he was a game warden and do you know the story?

   18. MZMariana van Zeller46:22

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:22

       Okay, so John, for people who don't know-

   20. MZMariana van Zeller46:24

       He's coming on my podcast, by the way.

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:25

       Oh, he's great.

   22. MZMariana van Zeller46:26

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:26

       So John was a game warden, right?

   24. MZMariana van Zeller46:28

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:28

       Loved the outdoors, became a game warden. He really wanted to like check people's fishing licenses and hunting licenses and making sure the, the land was taken care of and making sure people aren't littering or doing anything stupid. So he gets this call that this stream is blocked up. It's like the stream stopped running and they can't figure out why, maybe a farmer diverted water. They follow the stream, they find these PVC pipes that are rerouting it to this massive marijuana farm that the cartel owns.

   26. MZMariana van Zeller46:53

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:53

       So when California made marijuana legal in the state, what they also did is make it a misdemeanor to grow c- to grow marijuana illegally.

   28. MZMariana van Zeller47:03

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan47:04

       So the cartels are like, "Fucking great. Let's just start growing."

   30. MZMariana van Zeller47:06

       Yeah. This is the best business.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:10:59

   Ooh. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      last four years during the Biden administration, it was well-known throughout the world that the borders were wide open. So an estimated, uh, who knows, what is the total number? Put this into Perplexity. That's our sponsor, Perplexity.

   2. MZMariana van Zeller1:00:13

      Ooh.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      Um, what does it say?

   4. MZMariana van Zeller1:00:15

      Do you wanna ... Do they wanna sponsor my podcast? (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:15

      How many people do they estimate came in-

   6. MZMariana van Zeller1:00:18

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:18

      ... illegally over the past four years during the Biden administration? But it's millions and millions of people, right? So people knew that they can come across. Now they're here because somebody invited them, right? And then they were bused to these places and flown to these places and they were given EBD cards and-

   8. MZMariana van Zeller1:00:35

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:36

      ... some of them were given cell phones, and now you're gonna arrest them? Now you're gonna like swoop in and handcuff them and, "Fuck," like, "This is crazy. You asked me to be here." They don't know. It's the same goddamn country.

   10. MZMariana van Zeller1:00:46

       (laughs) I, okay, I have spent time on, uh, the trail of immigrants. I was in the Dar- in the southern Darien Gap where a lot of the immigrants were coming, and I spoke to dozens of people who are doing the journey. And, um, maybe I just got lucky or unlucky that I spoke to ... The majority of the people that I spoke to had, you know ... A lot of them were from Haiti, from Venezuela-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

       Hmm.

   12. MZMariana van Zeller1:01:06

       ... places that are completely torn up.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:08

       Yes.

   14. MZMariana van Zeller1:01:09

       No economic opportunities whatever-

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:10

       Right.

   16. MZMariana van Zeller1:01:10

       ... whatsoever. Violence, extreme violence, uh, the- these are the stories that I know are happening. And, and I'll ... I, I have a good friend, his name is Jacob Soboroff, he's a reporter for MSNBC, and he's been covering immigration raids from the beginning. And one of the stories he did, and it w- it's like I, I love that I'm talking about this because this has become really important for me, um, because I'm ... I live in LA and I, I'm affected by this, um, on, on many levels. And because I'm a-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:36

       Also, you have an accent.

   18. MZMariana van Zeller1:01:37

       I have an accent.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:38

       You're from Portugal. (laughs)

   20. MZMariana van Zeller1:01:38

       Exactly. I'm, I am an immigrant, so I know-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:40

       You might get green-carded.

   22. MZMariana van Zeller1:01:40

       I know, exactly.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:41

       Yeah, they might pull you over.

   24. MZMariana van Zeller1:01:42

       (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:42

       Ask for your papers.

   26. MZMariana van Zeller1:01:43

       They might actually take away my citizenship. Um, but, uh, y- this ... Uh, one of the stories he covered, and I think exemplifies what's happening to me right now, is th- Estela and Nory, this is a mother and a daughter from Guatemala. The daughter was born in Guatemala with her mother, and her mother was gang-raped in this small town. She's from a small, impoverished town, town in rural Guatemala. She was gang-raped, and the next day ... And her daughter watched her being gang-raped. And she was fuel- ... Violently beaten up. She had blood all over her face. They broke her bones. It was horrible. With her daughter, who was young at the time, watching. And the next day she decided she had family members in the US and she decided, "This is it. I can't live here, and I have to take my daughter to a place that's safer." Her daughter was traumatized, by the way, by now. Took her ... Brought ... They came, they came to the US. Um, they immediately went and asked for asylum, which, by the way, most people don't know this, but it is completely legal to become ... to come to the United States whatever way you enter. Even if you enter illegally, it is legal to come to the US and ask for asylum. That is not ... Coming to the US, entering without papers and then asking for asylum is legal. So even when people say, "Yes, but do it le- y- y- you can't do it illegally," you're wrong. It is legal to do so, coming in with no papers and asking for asylum.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:59

       What are the requirements to, uh, req- to request-

   28. MZMariana van Zeller1:03:02

       Uh, persecution. You have to, you have to be a victim of persecution, whether it's, you know, uh, uh, um ...

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:03:08

       Cartels or .......................... violence.

   30. MZMariana van Zeller1:03:10

       Yeah, violence, uh, rape, uh, uh, political, w- w- t- uh ... What, what, what are the five things? It's like ... Jamie, can you look this up? It's political, uh, religious, um, political, religious. There's like five reasons why people can be, um, persecuted. And, um, so they came to the US. They immediately started applying for asylum. And there's 11 million cases backlogged right now of people asking for asyl- asylum.

Episode duration: 2:49:51