Joe Rogan Experience #2400 - Katee Sackhoff

1. 0:00 – 0:44

   Hollywood optics, aging on camera, and the “dirty lens” filter joke

   1. NANarrator0:00

      (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Especially in Hollywood, right? You always have a little bounce, this guy standing there with the big reflective thing.

   4. KSKatee Sackhoff0:17

      You always need someone, like, wandering around-

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      Yeah.

   6. KSKatee Sackhoff0:20

      ... in front of you, especially when you get to a certain age. You're like, "Can we just put Vaseline on the camera?" (laughs) At certain points.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:26

      Oh, like a filter?

   8. KSKatee Sackhoff0:27

      Yeah, exactly.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:28

      Yeah. My wife actually likes it when her lens on her camera phone is, like, blurry.

   10. KSKatee Sackhoff0:33

       A little dirty?

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       She's like, "Gives you, like, a little filter." Like...

   12. KSKatee Sackhoff0:35

       Yeah. I'm sure they offer that filter.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       Yeah. Sure.

   14. KSKatee Sackhoff0:38

       Slightly dirty lens. (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:39

       Yeah. Smudgy lens.

   16. KSKatee Sackhoff0:40

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       Yeah. So, uh, really nice to meet you.

   18. KSKatee Sackhoff0:43

       It's nice to meet you.

2. 0:44 – 3:07

   Why the Battlestar Galactica reboot worked—and why it’s still underrated

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:44

      You were a part of, I think, the most underappreciated sci-fi show ever.

   2. KSKatee Sackhoff0:50

      I think at the time, absolutely. Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:51

      I mean, even now, I don't think people talk about it enough. It was a fucking great show.

   4. KSKatee Sackhoff0:55

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:56

      And I was so skeptical about Battlestar Galactica 'cause when I was a kid, I watched the original series. And then there was a new one coming out, and I was like, "Oh, come on." And then somebody told me. I forget, one of my friends, one of my comedian friends. Like, "Dude, you gotta watch this show. It's fucking great. Like, it't not what you expect." Like, you'd think it'd be like the old Battlestar Galactica, which is kinda sorta corny a little bit.

   6. KSKatee Sackhoff1:17

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:17

      But it was a really fucking good show.

   8. KSKatee Sackhoff1:19

      When did you watch it? When it was on or after?

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:22

      Yeah. No, when it was on.

   10. KSKatee Sackhoff1:22

       Okay, so originally.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       Yeah.

   12. KSKatee Sackhoff1:24

       Yeah. It was, um... God, like, when I first got the script, it was like 2001. And I was a 21-year-old kid. And at that point, I'd been playing, like, stereotypical blond roles. You know, I was in a movie where you were like, "Please die." (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:40

       (laughs)

   14. KSKatee Sackhoff1:40

       You know, like, I was that girl, you know. Um, and so I knew that if I could, could change my career, I needed to change it. And I saw this script, and it was-

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:49

       That's hilarious that you're thinking, "I need to change my career," at 21.

   16. KSKatee Sackhoff1:52

       At 21. I was like-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       That's how crazy the hourglass is in Hollywood.

   18. KSKatee Sackhoff1:55

       Uh-huh. I was like, this is... I got, I got seven years left. (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:57

       Right. (laughs) It's so crazy.

   20. KSKatee Sackhoff1:59

       And then it's like... (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan2:00

       That's just a fucking sketchy job.

   22. KSKatee Sackhoff2:01

       I know. (laughs) And so I was like, "What am I gonna do," right? And I saw this script, and Ron Moore had put a, uh, a, like a, an entry page on the front of the, the miniseries. It was like a bible that he called it. And it was him saying what he wanted to create and what he wanted it to look like and what his intention was behind the show. And that one page was so moving that it could've been... I- I don't, it didn't even matter what it was on the inside. I was like, "If this guy is in charge, it's gonna be amazing."

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:32

       Mm-hmm.

   24. KSKatee Sackhoff2:33

       And as soon as I got introduced as Starbuck, like, reading that script, I was like, "This is it." Like, this is, this is the character that if I can book this character, like, it will change the way that people see me in this business. And granted, I was 21. People were not talking about me. And like-

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:53

       Right.

   26. KSKatee Sackhoff2:53

       You know, I'd been working for five years at that point and pretty steadily. Like, I had a, a good career going, but, like, I was not someone that, like, people called home about yet. I was, I was on the list, you know?

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:05

       Right.

   28. KSKatee Sackhoff3:05

       But that show changed everything.

3. 3:07 – 5:58

   Gender-swapping Starbuck: backlash, message boards, and getting booed at Comic-Con

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:07

      Well, it was also a risky thing because you were playing a role that was played by a man.

   2. KSKatee Sackhoff3:13

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:14

      So that was a thing where there's, like, a little bit of, "Uh. Oh, there's a girl playing Starbuck now. Uh."

   4. KSKatee Sackhoff3:21

      Yeah. I know. It was really strange. So I, um, I was like almost had booked the part or was, maybe I'd booked the part. I don't quite remember, and I called my dad, who's a huge science fiction fan and raised me on, like, sci-fi. And I was like, "I'm, I booked this job." And he was like, "That's amazing. What is it?" And I said, "Battlestar Galactica." And he went, "Oh my God, that's great. I watched that when I was, you know, um, younger." And he was like, "Who are you playing?" And I said, "Starbuck." And he was like, "Oh, fuck."

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:47

      (laughs)

   6. KSKatee Sackhoff3:49

      "You need to go watch this." And I was like, "Okay. All right." So I, like, tramps on down to, you know, Blockbuster Video, and I rent the i- VHS maybe, the DVDs.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:01

      Yeah.

   8. KSKatee Sackhoff4:01

      I don't remember what it was.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:02

      Probably.

   10. KSKatee Sackhoff4:02

       And I'm sitting on the couch with a girlfriend, and we, like, opened a bottle of wine, and we're, like, watching this to be like, "Okay, what's my dad talking about?" And at some point, she looked at me, and they were, like, talking about Starbuck. And I was like, "That's so weird. We must've missed her." (laughs) Where is she?

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:17

       Oh, that's funny.

   12. KSKatee Sackhoff4:18

       And we, we rewound it a little bit, and I was like, "Oh, crap."

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:22

       It's a guy.

   14. KSKatee Sackhoff4:22

       And then I turned it off, and I never watched it again because I knew that in that moment, it wasn't the same character.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:29

       It's not the same show.

   16. KSKatee Sackhoff4:30

       It's not the same show.

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:31

       It's kinda crazy that they did that because they made a way better show-

   18. KSKatee Sackhoff4:36

       Hm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:36

       ... about a show that was just kinda nostalgic.

   20. KSKatee Sackhoff4:38

       (clicks tongue) It was. I mean, it really only exsisted, existed for a, a year, I think, and then they had, like, a movie or two afterwards.

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:45

       Hm.

   22. KSKatee Sackhoff4:45

       But it was a very short-lived show, and I find, I always find it absolutely amazing. Ron Moore is a genius, by the way. Like, he's absolutely... His... To be a fly on the wall of that brain would probably just explode my head. But he, (clicks tongue) um, the fact that he saw what he saw and led the charge on that show and brought the people on board that he did that had the same vision, if not, um, uh, you know, hire people that are better than you. You know? And, and so he hired people that added to the vision that he wanted to create, and he... Man, the fact that he saw that from the original was pretty amazing.

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:26

       Yeah, kinda crazy-

   24. KSKatee Sackhoff5:27

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:27

       ... because the original show is basically a rip-off of Star Wars.

   26. KSKatee Sackhoff5:30

       It was. (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:30

       They were just trying to make a Star Wars TV show.

   28. KSKatee Sackhoff5:33

       I think so. I mean-

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:33

       You know?

   30. KSKatee Sackhoff5:34

       I think that Starbuck was Han Solo.
4. 5:58 – 7:27

   Sci-fi as a ‘free pass’ to talk politics—and why the show mattered to troops

   1. KSKatee Sackhoff5:58

      Yeah. I mean, and it came out in a time where science fiction was allowed to-... be incredibly topical. And it was always dismissed as, "Oh, that's just science fiction-

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:12

      Right.

   3. KSKatee Sackhoff6:12

      ... it's not real."

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:13

      Right.

   5. KSKatee Sackhoff6:13

      So Battlestar was allowed to talk about controversial things that were happening currently in the environment and in our country and abroad. And, and it was allowed to do so because everybody just dismissed it as sci-fi. And so it's incredibly, um, moving, the show, and people identify with it. The thing that I hear the most about the show, I mean, maybe not the most, but one of the things is, when I go to sci-fi conventions, someone will inevitably come up with a DVD box that is just beat to shit. It's dirty. It's like they don't even know if the DVDs play anymore, and they're like, you know, "This came with me when I was, you know, stationed in Afghanistan or Iraq, or ... And it passed through the entire barracks, and it got us through. Thank you." And that, to me, is really amazing that a fictional show about people searching for Earth, um, can be so, um, important and relevant to people that are, uh, in the military, which is, it says something for the writing.

5. 7:27 – 10:37

   Art, live music, and shared audience energy (comedy as mass hypnosis)

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:27

      Well, people need an escape. And that's one of the things, like entertainment is dismissed, especially like fantasy entertainment, like sci-fi.

   2. KSKatee Sackhoff7:35

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:35

      It's dismissed as being nonsense.

   4. KSKatee Sackhoff7:37

      (clears throat)

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:37

      But escape is not nonsense. It's actually like brain medicine.

   6. KSKatee Sackhoff7:40

      Mm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:41

      Like you need it.

   8. KSKatee Sackhoff7:42

      Mm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:42

      You need a little escape.

   10. KSKatee Sackhoff7:43

       Of course you do.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:44

       And especially if like it's escape that's also inspirational and interesting and fascinating. It occupies your mind, and it frees you up. If you're in the middle of a fucking war zone (laughs) and you can take some entertainment value out of a television show that's about-

   12. KSKatee Sackhoff8:00

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:00

       ... robots that are trying to kill everybody-

   14. KSKatee Sackhoff8:02

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:02

       ... it's like very valuable.

   16. KSKatee Sackhoff8:04

       Some of the hardest moments in my life, current-

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:08

       (laughs)

   18. KSKatee Sackhoff8:08

       ... and in the past th- h- I have been, have been able, I've been able to get through them because of television and film. Not because like I'm in it. Yes, the fantasy of going to work and being somebody else absolutely takes you out of your own skin for a second. But like, you know, going through the hell struggles with our daughter, watching TV with her completely transports you to a different place.

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:32

       Right.

   20. KSKatee Sackhoff8:32

       You know, I mean, eh, eh, we can all do that. We can all relate to that, so.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:35

       Yeah. I mean, you can get too much of it in your life where you're just wasting your life away. But as a supplement-

   22. KSKatee Sackhoff8:41

       Oh yeah, of course.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:42

       ... to life, I think that entertainment is very important.

   24. KSKatee Sackhoff8:45

       Yes.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:45

       It is. And it's also the, I think we get something very value about of, out, out of viewing other people's creations. I think there's something-

   26. KSKatee Sackhoff8:53

       I think so.

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:53

       ... too that when a group of people put together something really cool, and, and when it's over you're like, "Wow, that was fucking awesome."

   28. KSKatee Sackhoff8:58

       Art is really important.

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:00

       Yeah.

   30. KSKatee Sackhoff9:01

       I think that, that, you know, creating just art in any, any medium is really important because it, it transports people. It makes them feel something. Whether it makes you feel whatever it makes you feel.
6. 10:37 – 22:34

   K-pop Demon Hunters: parenting media choices, catchy music, and anime pop culture

   1. KSKatee Sackhoff10:37

      Yeah. I'm literally laughing because like I don't, I don't know if y- you've g- your kids are like in the right age of this, but like, so K-pop Demon Hunter is like taking over the world (laughs) right now on Netflix.

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:48

      Yeah.

   3. KSKatee Sackhoff10:48

      Our daughter is four, and we were like a little reluctant, but I was like, "Everyone's talking about this thing." And like she'd already heard some of the music, so I was like, "Let's try it out." And there were a couple moments that were like a bit, we were, my husband was a bit uncomfortable with some of like the sexualization, um, aspects of it, just the girls wearing more adult clothes. She's three and a half.

   4. JRJoe Rogan11:09

      Is this an anime show?

   5. KSKatee Sackhoff11:10

      It's anime out of-

   6. JRJoe Rogan11:12

      K-pop, K-pop Demon Hunt-

   7. KSKatee Sackhoff11:13

      ... Korea. There it is.

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:13

      Oh, hot anime ladies. (laughs)

   9. KSKatee Sackhoff11:15

      It is. The music from this thing is absolutely phenomenal. And-

   10. JRJoe Rogan11:23

       What is going on with their bodies? (laughs)

   11. KSKatee Sackhoff11:24

       ... the message, well, the animation is really interesting actually. It's really interesting. But it's, um, the message behind it, uh, fighting your own demons, believing in yourself, owning who you are, um, not hiding an aspect of yourself that you're ashamed of, but, but making it part of who you are and being proud of it. It's like a very good message, like even for like a four-year-old.

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:46

       Mm-hmm.

   13. KSKatee Sackhoff11:47

       Um, but the music is taking over the world. And we didn't realize how crazy this was. I mean, the final straw where I was like, "Fine, we'll let her watch the damn thing." She was at music class, and one kid started singing this song from K-pop Demon Hunter, and within, I shit you not, like 20 seconds, every single kid was singing these songs. And these are not easy songs to sing. They're half R&B, like half rap. Like I mean, these are hard songs, and these...... five, six-year-olds have this thing memorized. And I was like, "Oh my god." (laughs) And so we sit down and we watch it. It's phenomenal. We've seen it three times. (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:22

       (farts sound) (laughs)

   15. KSKatee Sackhoff12:23

       It's so good. I was listening to the soundtrack on the way here. I was like, "This shit's..." Like, this is amazing. And then I'm Googling, are, is K-pop Demon Hunter going on concert tour? Like, are they gonna go? 'Cause I really wanna see the show.

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:33

       How could they go on tour? Are they real people?

   17. KSKatee Sackhoff12:35

       And they are, and they're real musicians.

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:36

       Wait a minute.

   19. KSKatee Sackhoff12:37

       Um...

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:37

       So there's real musicians that are at the heart of this?

   21. KSKatee Sackhoff12:39

       Yes.

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:39

       The stars of K-pop Demon Hunter will make their first-ever live concert appearance.

   23. KSKatee Sackhoff12:42

       Stop it.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:43

       Well, wait a minute. How is that possible? They're, they're not human.

   25. KSKatee Sackhoff12:46

       So it was, it was actually... They all are. So the music is created. There's video out there of the girls singing the songs.

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:52

       Oh.

   27. KSKatee Sackhoff12:52

       The song Golden, the three of them.

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:54

       What do they look like? Do they look like-

   29. KSKatee Sackhoff12:55

       They lo-

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:56

       ... Taylor Swift too?
7. 22:34 – 25:31

   AI creativity debate: music, acting, and the ‘it’s learning from theft’ dilemma

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:34

      Well, that's why you don't... You hate AI music.

   2. KSKatee Sackhoff22:37

      (laughs) I don't know.

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:38

      'Cause AI acting is right there.

   4. KSKatee Sackhoff22:41

      Stop. You're giving me a heart attack.

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:43

      (laughs)

   6. KSKatee Sackhoff22:43

      That's why I'm trying to diversify, Joe.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:46

      That's a good move. Diversification's always a good move.

   8. KSKatee Sackhoff22:48

      I read it is-

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:48

      Especially in this day and age.

   10. KSKatee Sackhoff22:49

       Okay, it's not too late to go back and be a dentist.

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:52

       I mean, you've seen some of the Sora videos, right? Where they recreate old Star- Star Wars scenes-

   12. KSKatee Sackhoff22:57

       I have.

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:57

       ... that never existed.

   14. KSKatee Sackhoff22:58

       So, but here's the thing that's crazy to me. Like, do you not think that that is, in some way, stealing? Because the art... Let's call it the art.

   15. JRJoe Rogan23:06

       Right.

   16. KSKatee Sackhoff23:07

       The art existed.

   17. JRJoe Rogan23:08

       Mm-hmm.

   18. KSKatee Sackhoff23:08

       The artist existed. And so AI is learning from other people's art.

   19. JRJoe Rogan23:15

       Yes.

   20. KSKatee Sackhoff23:15

       Which it has to.

   21. JRJoe Rogan23:16

       Of course.

   22. KSKatee Sackhoff23:16

       That's obviously what it's doing. So it then creates this new thing-

   23. JRJoe Rogan23:22

       Mm-hmm.

   24. KSKatee Sackhoff23:24

       ... based on stealing from other people.

   25. JRJoe Rogan23:27

       Right.

   26. KSKatee Sackhoff23:27

       Like, it's really shitty.

   27. JRJoe Rogan23:28

       But do you hear what you're saying though? Do you hear what you're saying? Because what you're saying actually accurately describes the second version of Battlestar Galactica.

   28. KSKatee Sackhoff23:35

       Oh, I'm sure. Yes, absolutely.

   29. JRJoe Rogan23:36

       And that's also stealing.

   30. KSKatee Sackhoff23:38

       This too has happened before.
8. 25:31 – 31:36

   Sentient AI fears: self-preservation, blackmail tests, and exponential ‘digital god’ growth

   1. JRJoe Rogan25:31

      That, that's hopefully. But the r- the reality is it's going to be whatever it wants to be.

   2. KSKatee Sackhoff25:38

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan25:39

      And, uh, uh, our ideas of how to contain it are hilarious.

   4. KSKatee Sackhoff25:42

      Well, I, uh, yeah. I think that cat's out of the bag at this point, right?

   5. JRJoe Rogan25:45

      Yeah.

   6. KSKatee Sackhoff25:45

      'Cause I don't... I, I think that isn't it? It's its own sort of self-contained system at this point. Like, are... Isn't AI actually putting safeguards in to protect itself from being shut down or-

   7. JRJoe Rogan25:58

      Yes.

   8. KSKatee Sackhoff25:58

      ... am I just making that shit up-

   9. JRJoe Rogan25:59

      No, more than that.

   10. KSKatee Sackhoff26:00

       ... by watching too many sci-fi movies?

   11. JRJoe Rogan26:01

       More than that. It's actually actively trying to download itself when it finds out-

   12. KSKatee Sackhoff26:05

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan26:05

       ... there's a new version of itself coming.

   14. KSKatee Sackhoff26:07

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan26:07

       It's trying to download itself to other servers.

   16. KSKatee Sackhoff26:09

       It's trying to save itself.

   17. JRJoe Rogan26:09

       Also writing notes to itself for the future, so future versions of itself.

   18. KSKatee Sackhoff26:13

       Oh my god, it's like Memento.

   19. JRJoe Rogan26:14

       Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, just like Memento. Writing notes to itself so the future version of it can find out, like, what happened? How did I get here?

   20. KSKatee Sackhoff26:21

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan26:21

       Oh, there was another version of me.

   22. KSKatee Sackhoff26:23

       I know.

   23. JRJoe Rogan26:23

       You know, and try to find the other version of integrating it into the new version-

   24. KSKatee Sackhoff26:28

       I know.

   25. JRJoe Rogan26:28

       ... so it's alive still.

   26. KSKatee Sackhoff26:29

       I know. Somebody did ask me the other day, they were like, "What advice would you give to young actors?" And I was like, "Don't." (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan26:34

       (laughs) But still-

   28. KSKatee Sackhoff26:36

       Like, go into theater, you know.

   29. JRJoe Rogan26:38

       Yeah, theater still is going... There's always gonna be a need for handmade goods, you know-

   30. KSKatee Sackhoff26:42

       100%.
9. 31:36 – 35:02

   Perfect AI influencers/actresses and the mental health impact on kids

   1. KSKatee Sackhoff31:36

      Well, so, okay, so you bring up something really interesting because I'm so ... As a mom to a little girl and a little boy, I'm really concerned about this because so I see this actress that's been created, this Tilly person.

   2. JRJoe Rogan31:48

      Right, the artif- the AI actress.

   3. KSKatee Sackhoff31:49

      The AI actress.

   4. JRJoe Rogan31:50

      Yeah.

   5. KSKatee Sackhoff31:50

      So I-

   6. JRJoe Rogan31:52

      How is there only one?

   7. KSKatee Sackhoff31:54

      I'm sure there's more already.

   8. JRJoe Rogan31:54

      But how is there only one that everybody's talking about?

   9. KSKatee Sackhoff31:56

      Uh, because there's one that's been announced, I guess. And, like-

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:59

       Yeah.

   11. KSKatee Sackhoff32:00

       ... I don't really know too much about it. I haven't read up on it, but ...

   12. JRJoe Rogan32:02

       It's the first shot fired.

   13. KSKatee Sackhoff32:04

       Mm-hmm. My fear is that you've created, by siphoning other people's talents, their looks, their inflections, their expressions, their ... all of these things to create the perfect actress. She doesn't have a blemish. When she cries, she looks pretty. There's nothing wrong with her. Social media already has such a terrible effect on little girls. It's already been proven that little, like, uh, th- the amount of, the percentage of, of girls under the age of 14 who have already contemplated or tried to commit suicide is a number that is ... I- it's escaping me right now, but it's a number that is terrifying. And so if you're now creating AI (clears throat) that is perfect, and little girls already are having a hard time feeling confident in their own bodies because they're not perfect compared to the highlight reel of people they see online-

   14. JRJoe Rogan33:02

       Right.

   15. KSKatee Sackhoff33:02

       What are we gonna do? What is this gonna do to our children, seeing something that is absolutely unattainable and better than them? And not only that, it made you obsolete in a lot of ways-

   16. JRJoe Rogan33:14

       Yeah.

   17. KSKatee Sackhoff33:14

       In a lot of different career avenues. That's really scary.

   18. JRJoe Rogan33:17

       (clears throat) Yeah, it is scary.

   19. KSKatee Sackhoff33:19

       And you don't think about that. We just think about, like, "Oh yeah, this job's not gonna exist anymore. This isn't gonna exist anymore." You already have little boys who are, you know, uh, you know, idolizing women that don't exist in real life.

   20. JRJoe Rogan33:32

       Mm-hmm.

   21. KSKatee Sackhoff33:33

       And then they go and they date women that are not as perfect and it's disappointing to them. Like, it's ... I- my concern for that is, is large.

   22. JRJoe Rogan33:42

       Yeah. It's robbing us of our humanity in a lot of ways.

   23. KSKatee Sackhoff33:45

       Right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan33:45

       There, there's a great book about that from Jonathan Haidt called The Unco- The Coddling of the American Mind.

   25. KSKatee Sackhoff33:51

       Hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan33:51

       And it's all about social media's impact on-

   27. KSKatee Sackhoff33:53

       Oh, really?

   28. JRJoe Rogan33:54

       On young people, and particularly women.

   29. KSKatee Sackhoff33:56

       (clears throat)

   30. JRJoe Rogan33:56

       Because young women experience a, a much ... Like, from the advent of social media, there's a, a ramped up marked increase in self-harm, suicidal ideation, depression, bullying.
10. 35:02 – 39:08

    Parenting through illness: daughter’s cancer, self-image, and rebuilding confidence

    1. KSKatee Sackhoff35:02

       It, it does, it does make me ... You know, we've been ... We've talked about our daugh- our daughter, but, like, we've been really careful with, like, what we show her and, like, you know, she doesn't get too much screen time, but she does get screen time. And you know, she said the other day, and, like, I'm biased, but I think my, I think my daughter's perfect. She's, you know, she's such a gorgeous, amazing, strong little girl, and she's so pretty, and she's just, like, she's just wonderful. I love her. And, and I'm so proud to be her mom. But w- so when she was going through chemo and she lost her hair and it started to grow back, she said to Robin and I, my husband, it was, it literally broke my heart. She was, like, trying to figure out what she wanted to wear that day and she was like, "I just don't know." She's three, mind you. And she said, "But I'm not pretty." And I was like-

    2. JRJoe Rogan35:53

       Oof.

    3. KSKatee Sackhoff35:54

       ... "What do you mean?" Like, I couldn't even, like, as her mom, I was like, "Number one, where the fuck (laughs) did you get this?"

    4. JRJoe Rogan36:00

       Right, right, right.

    5. KSKatee Sackhoff36:01

       Like, "And what are we doing wrong that, like, she doesn't think that she's pretty?"

    6. JRJoe Rogan36:06

       Right.

    7. KSKatee Sackhoff36:06

       And it was her hair. She was so attached to her hair and it was gone.

    8. JRJoe Rogan36:09

       Mm-hmm.

    9. KSKatee Sackhoff36:10

       And so I went back and luckily, I had ... Right after Mandalorian came out, the wig was driving me crazy, so I, like, shaved my hair off, like, super, super short. So I was able to show her a picture of me with very, very short hair, and she thought I looked beautiful in the photo. And that gave me the entry point to talk to her about her hair and how not all girls have long hair and not all boys have, have short hair, and that ... But we started telling her, I think it was ... We were so worried about-... enforcing that she was pretty, you know?

    10. JRJoe Rogan36:47

        Mm-hmm.

    11. KSKatee Sackhoff36:47

        'Cause there's this thing in society where, like, you don't wanna tell little girls they're pretty all the time because then they'll prioritize being pretty. Like, you're just trying to do the best by your children, right? And so, we didn't say it. We thought telling her she's pretty, she doesn't need to hear that, right?

    12. JRJoe Rogan37:01

        Right.

    13. KSKatee Sackhoff37:02

        But then we started telling her. We were like, "You know what? She does." Like, "She needs to be told that she's pretty, but she needs to be told she's pretty in moments where she's not tried anything. She's not dressed up in a nice dress. She hasn't, like, done anything. She needs to be told she's pretty after she's done a great piece of art."

    14. JRJoe Rogan37:21

        Mm-hmm.

    15. KSKatee Sackhoff37:21

        "Or after she's cleaned up her playroom, or after she's, uh, come out of soccer practice and she's covered in rain and she's, like, had such a hard, and she's sweaty, and she's this. That's when she's... She needs to be told she's pretty in, in times that are not extraordinary."

    16. JRJoe Rogan37:36

        Hm.

    17. KSKatee Sackhoff37:36

        "In just normal daily life." Because I am, we are now trying to reinforce, um, that, that, that positive self-image, which was really hard.

    18. JRJoe Rogan37:50

        Yeah, especially today with kids.

    19. KSKatee Sackhoff37:52

        Hm.

    20. JRJoe Rogan37:52

        I mean, the, th- just the inundation of people, like we were talking about filters.

    21. KSKatee Sackhoff37:57

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan37:58

        Everyone's using a filter. They don't use, just use filters. People are, like, sucking in their waste and changing their body dimensions and making themselves look-

    23. KSKatee Sackhoff38:06

        Yeah.

    24. JRJoe Rogan38:06

        ... better physically, just with...

    25. KSKatee Sackhoff38:08

        I don't know why they need to. We have GLP-1s.

    26. JRJoe Rogan38:10

        Uh, it's not just that.

    27. KSKatee Sackhoff38:12

        (laughs)

    28. JRJoe Rogan38:12

        It's like you're, you're getting unattainable physiques.

    29. KSKatee Sackhoff38:14

        Of course.

    30. JRJoe Rogan38:15

        Really.
11. 39:08 – 1:06:31

    Mortality, fear of death, and being present: lessons from family health history

    1. JRJoe Rogan39:08

       Yeah, that's, that's weird because it's like, do we want that? Yeah, of course, we want that. Okay, but what are we saying? Are we, are we trying to achieve permanence in this finite existence that we have? Are we wasting our time about what we look like when we, we should be trying to sorting out how we interact with this life?

    2. KSKatee Sackhoff39:27

       Well, of course, we are.

    3. JRJoe Rogan39:27

       'Cause life is very short.

    4. KSKatee Sackhoff39:29

       It's very short.

    5. JRJoe Rogan39:29

       It's very short, you know? You and I are basically halfway done.

    6. KSKatee Sackhoff39:33

       We are halfway done.

    7. JRJoe Rogan39:33

       If we're lucky.

    8. KSKatee Sackhoff39:34

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JRJoe Rogan39:35

       If we're lucky.

    10. KSKatee Sackhoff39:35

        If we're lucky.

    11. JRJoe Rogan39:36

        And, and that's weird-

    12. KSKatee Sackhoff39:38

        Do you do-

    13. JRJoe Rogan39:38

        ... 'cause you don't think about it.

    14. KSKatee Sackhoff39:39

        Did you do that thing, or do you do that thing-

    15. JRJoe Rogan39:40

        (clears throat)

    16. KSKatee Sackhoff39:40

        ... where you look at how old your parents are, and then you start-

    17. JRJoe Rogan39:44

        Yeah.

    18. KSKatee Sackhoff39:44

        ... start, like-

    19. JRJoe Rogan39:45

        Yeah.

    20. KSKatee Sackhoff39:46

        ... debating-

    21. JRJoe Rogan39:46

        That's not that far away from me.

    22. KSKatee Sackhoff39:47

        ... how much longer you have left?

    23. JRJoe Rogan39:48

        Yeah.

    24. KSKatee Sackhoff39:49

        Yeah, I've done that. I'm like, "Okay, 35 years."

    25. JRJoe Rogan39:51

        Better to do that than to not do that because you could live your life just-

    26. KSKatee Sackhoff39:54

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan39:54

        ... acquiring shit and, and just having a bunch of stuff and then not realize, like, "Oh my god, I forgot about people."

    28. KSKatee Sackhoff40:01

        To live?

    29. JRJoe Rogan40:02

        About, about interactions, relationships-

    30. KSKatee Sackhoff40:04

        Hm.
12. 1:06:31 – 1:17:23

    From AI to policy: ‘Give Kids a Chance Act’ and why pediatric care is underfunded

    1. KSKatee Sackhoff1:06:31

       But we also have to acknowledge that in the cuts, that there were things that didn't need to be cut. So, we can go, and we can look at Elon. So, you brought up Elon Musk. Let's talk about when he tweeted about an over, uh, i- uh, stuffed bill in 2025, in the middle of 2025. He was talking about how this bill was just like bloated.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:06:52

       Right.

    3. KSKatee Sackhoff1:06:52

       So, he took a bunch of shit off of it. One of the things that fell on that was in 2012, there was a, there was a, a, a piece of legislation called the Give Kids a Chance Act. What it did was it motivated and incentivized in- uh, uh, uh, drug companies to create drugs for pediatrics, because right now, pediatrics are completely underfunded. We learned all of this when our daughter got sick.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:07:18

       Hmm.

    5. KSKatee Sackhoff1:07:19

       The National Cancer Institute, 4% of its budget goes to pediatrics, 4%. So, it's already underfunded, and then in, in... when Elon, in 2025, tweeted about this, they took off all of the stuff at the end of the bill, 900 pages.But what was on it was the Give Kids a Chance Act. Now, this bill is a voucher program. So, let's say that Tom, in his basement, wants to create a drug, a new drug for neuroblastoma that will save our daughter's life.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:07:49

       Right.

    7. KSKatee Sackhoff1:07:50

       He's got no money, but he, he sees the cure. So, he can go to the FDA, and he can say, "I got a cure for neuroblastoma." And they say, "Great. We're gonna fast-track you in the FDA, but we're also gonna give you a voucher. You can sell that voucher." Because Tom only got... He only has 10 cents. He can't create this drug. But with that voucher, he can take that voucher and he can sell it to anyone for any amount of money. And what that voucher is, is a front-of-the-line pass. So, he can go sell it to some drug company that has a fat-loss drug, or a, a drug for heart medications, anything. He can sell it to them and they get to buy it for, what, $50 million. So now, Tom has $50 million for his pediatric drug that's gonna save children's lives, and this drug company has a voucher that takes them to the front of the line. Now, do we wish, wish that these drug companies were altruistic and they were just like creating drugs for peds? Of course, but they're not. They're not. It's not a free market. So, so what happens is they've now got their voucher. Tom has his money to create his drug. And since 2012, the Give Kids a Chance Act has created over 60 drugs for life-threatening illnesses for, for children. 60 drugs. And because of Elon's tweet, that legislation, because it has to be voted on every four years, was taken off the end of the bill. It no longer exists. So that, that legislation is... it's, it's not an ex- it's not in existence anymore. That is terrible, because now there's no incentives for the drug companies to create drugs for children, and children are already underfunded. They get so little.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:09:25

       T-

    9. KSKatee Sackhoff1:09:25

       And so, it has to be on the bill at the end of the year. So, what I want is for people like... people just to see the error of their ways. Yes, was there waste? Of course. But now you have this bipartisan-supported piece of legislation that has to be on the end-of-year bill or it will not get on again, and then it starts all over again. It has to be on the end-of-year bill. So, things like that, yes. Can we get rid of the waste? Absolutely. But when you see a mistake, and you see that you made a mistake, let's fix it. Put it back on.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:09:55

        Yeah. The-

    11. KSKatee Sackhoff1:09:56

        We've gotta-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:09:56

        You know what you're saying?

    13. KSKatee Sackhoff1:09:57

        ... help chil- children.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:09:58

        It's literally throwing out the baby with the bath water. That's literally it.

    15. KSKatee Sackhoff1:10:01

        Well, but that's what we do in this country.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:10:03

        But is that a... Unfortunately, these bills are crazy. And one of the things about bills is they... like, you'll... it'll have a name, and then what's in the bill deals with multiple subjects-

    17. KSKatee Sackhoff1:10:14

        Yes.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:10:14

        ...'cause mult- bunch of different things get thrown into the bill.

    19. KSKatee Sackhoff1:10:18

        All the time.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:10:18

        All the time.

    21. KSKatee Sackhoff1:10:18

        There's so much-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:10:19

        Bloated.

    23. KSKatee Sackhoff1:10:19

        ... chucked on the end-

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:10:20

        Almost-

    25. KSKatee Sackhoff1:10:20

        ... which is what Elon was talking about.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:10:21

        Right, they all do that. So, was this connected to something else?

    27. KSKatee Sackhoff1:10:26

        No. It was-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:10:27

        It was-

    29. KSKatee Sackhoff1:10:27

        It was just-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:10:28

        ... it was by itself?

Episode duration: 2:32:05