Joe Rogan Experience #2400 - Katee Sackhoff

Narrator 0:00 (drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Especially in Hollywood, right? You always have a little bounce, this guy standing there with the big reflective thing.

Katee Sackhoff 0:17 You always need someone, like, wandering around-

Joe Rogan 0:20 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 0:20 ... in front of you, especially when you get to a certain age. You're like, "Can we just put Vaseline on the camera?" (laughs) At certain points.

Joe Rogan 0:26 Oh, like a filter?

Katee Sackhoff 0:27 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 0:28 Yeah. My wife actually likes it when her lens on her camera phone is, like, blurry.

Katee Sackhoff 0:33 A little dirty?

Joe Rogan 0:33 She's like, "Gives you, like, a little filter." Like...

Katee Sackhoff 0:35 Yeah. I'm sure they offer that filter.

Joe Rogan 0:38 Yeah. Sure.

Katee Sackhoff 0:38 Slightly dirty lens. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:39 Yeah. Smudgy lens.

Katee Sackhoff 0:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:40 Yeah. So, uh, really nice to meet you.

Katee Sackhoff 0:43 It's nice to meet you.

Joe Rogan 0:44 You were a part of, I think, the most underappreciated sci-fi show ever.

Katee Sackhoff 0:50 I think at the time, absolutely. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:51 I mean, even now, I don't think people talk about it enough. It was a fucking great show.

Katee Sackhoff 0:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:56 And I was so skeptical about Battlestar Galactica 'cause when I was a kid, I watched the original series. And then there was a new one coming out, and I was like, "Oh, come on." And then somebody told me. I forget, one of my friends, one of my comedian friends. Like, "Dude, you gotta watch this show. It's fucking great. Like, it't not what you expect." Like, you'd think it'd be like the old Battlestar Galactica, which is kinda sorta corny a little bit.

Katee Sackhoff 1:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:17 But it was a really fucking good show.

Katee Sackhoff 1:19 When did you watch it? When it was on or after?

Joe Rogan 1:22 Yeah. No, when it was on.

Katee Sackhoff 1:22 Okay, so originally.

Joe Rogan 1:23 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 1:24 Yeah. It was, um... God, like, when I first got the script, it was like 2001. And I was a 21-year-old kid. And at that point, I'd been playing, like, stereotypical blond roles. You know, I was in a movie where you were like, "Please die." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:40 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 1:40 You know, like, I was that girl, you know. Um, and so I knew that if I could, could change my career, I needed to change it. And I saw this script, and it was-

Joe Rogan 1:49 That's hilarious that you're thinking, "I need to change my career," at 21.

Katee Sackhoff 1:52 At 21. I was like-

Joe Rogan 1:52 That's how crazy the hourglass is in Hollywood.

Katee Sackhoff 1:55 Uh-huh. I was like, this is... I got, I got seven years left. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:57 Right. (laughs) It's so crazy.

Katee Sackhoff 1:59 And then it's like... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:00 That's just a fucking sketchy job.

Katee Sackhoff 2:01 I know. (laughs) And so I was like, "What am I gonna do," right? And I saw this script, and Ron Moore had put a, uh, a, like a, an entry page on the front of the, the miniseries. It was like a bible that he called it. And it was him saying what he wanted to create and what he wanted it to look like and what his intention was behind the show. And that one page was so moving that it could've been... I- I don't, it didn't even matter what it was on the inside. I was like, "If this guy is in charge, it's gonna be amazing."

Joe Rogan 2:32 Mm-hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 2:33 And as soon as I got introduced as Starbuck, like, reading that script, I was like, "This is it." Like, this is, this is the character that if I can book this character, like, it will change the way that people see me in this business. And granted, I was 21. People were not talking about me. And like-

Joe Rogan 2:53 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 2:53 You know, I'd been working for five years at that point and pretty steadily. Like, I had a, a good career going, but, like, I was not someone that, like, people called home about yet. I was, I was on the list, you know?

Joe Rogan 3:05 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 3:05 But that show changed everything.

Joe Rogan 3:07 Well, it was also a risky thing because you were playing a role that was played by a man.

Katee Sackhoff 3:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:14 So that was a thing where there's, like, a little bit of, "Uh. Oh, there's a girl playing Starbuck now. Uh."

Katee Sackhoff 3:21 Yeah. I know. It was really strange. So I, um, I was like almost had booked the part or was, maybe I'd booked the part. I don't quite remember, and I called my dad, who's a huge science fiction fan and raised me on, like, sci-fi. And I was like, "I'm, I booked this job." And he was like, "That's amazing. What is it?" And I said, "Battlestar Galactica." And he went, "Oh my God, that's great. I watched that when I was, you know, um, younger." And he was like, "Who are you playing?" And I said, "Starbuck." And he was like, "Oh, fuck."

Joe Rogan 3:47 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 3:49 "You need to go watch this." And I was like, "Okay. All right." So I, like, tramps on down to, you know, Blockbuster Video, and I rent the i- VHS maybe, the DVDs.

Joe Rogan 4:01 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 4:01 I don't remember what it was.

Joe Rogan 4:02 Probably.

Katee Sackhoff 4:02 And I'm sitting on the couch with a girlfriend, and we, like, opened a bottle of wine, and we're, like, watching this to be like, "Okay, what's my dad talking about?" And at some point, she looked at me, and they were, like, talking about Starbuck. And I was like, "That's so weird. We must've missed her." (laughs) Where is she?

Joe Rogan 4:17 Oh, that's funny.

Katee Sackhoff 4:18 And we, we rewound it a little bit, and I was like, "Oh, crap."

Joe Rogan 4:22 It's a guy.

Katee Sackhoff 4:22 And then I turned it off, and I never watched it again because I knew that in that moment, it wasn't the same character.

Joe Rogan 4:29 It's not the same show.

Katee Sackhoff 4:30 It's not the same show.

Joe Rogan 4:31 It's kinda crazy that they did that because they made a way better show-

Katee Sackhoff 4:36 Hm.

Joe Rogan 4:36 ... about a show that was just kinda nostalgic.

Katee Sackhoff 4:38 (clicks tongue) It was. I mean, it really only exsisted, existed for a, a year, I think, and then they had, like, a movie or two afterwards.

Joe Rogan 4:45 Hm.

Katee Sackhoff 4:45 But it was a very short-lived show, and I find, I always find it absolutely amazing. Ron Moore is a genius, by the way. Like, he's absolutely... His... To be a fly on the wall of that brain would probably just explode my head. But he, (clicks tongue) um, the fact that he saw what he saw and led the charge on that show and brought the people on board that he did that had the same vision, if not, um, uh, you know, hire people that are better than you. You know? And, and so he hired people that added to the vision that he wanted to create, and he... Man, the fact that he saw that from the original was pretty amazing.

Joe Rogan 5:26 Yeah, kinda crazy-

Katee Sackhoff 5:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:27 ... because the original show is basically a rip-off of Star Wars.

Katee Sackhoff 5:30 It was. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:30 They were just trying to make a Star Wars TV show.

Katee Sackhoff 5:33 I think so. I mean-

Joe Rogan 5:33 You know?

Katee Sackhoff 5:34 I think that Starbuck was Han Solo.

Joe Rogan 5:36 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 5:37 Right?

Joe Rogan 5:37 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 5:38 Um, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:38 And the Cylons were kinda like stormtroopers.

Katee Sackhoff 5:41 They were.

Joe Rogan 5:41 Like robot stormtroopers.

Katee Sackhoff 5:42 It was pretty... Yeah. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 5:45 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 5:45 I don't know who Daggett the dog was. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:47 No, I don't know who... I mean, what they did was, you know, they, they took, like, a fr... They said, like, "I see what you're trying to do."

Katee Sackhoff 5:54 Hm.

Joe Rogan 5:55 "But I... This could be a real show."

Katee Sackhoff 5:58 Yeah. I mean, and it came out in a time where science fiction was allowed to-... be incredibly topical. And it was always dismissed as, "Oh, that's just science fiction-

Joe Rogan 6:12 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 6:12 ... it's not real."

Joe Rogan 6:13 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 6:13 So Battlestar was allowed to talk about controversial things that were happening currently in the environment and in our country and abroad. And, and it was allowed to do so because everybody just dismissed it as sci-fi. And so it's incredibly, um, moving, the show, and people identify with it. The thing that I hear the most about the show, I mean, maybe not the most, but one of the things is, when I go to sci-fi conventions, someone will inevitably come up with a DVD box that is just beat to shit. It's dirty. It's like they don't even know if the DVDs play anymore, and they're like, you know, "This came with me when I was, you know, stationed in Afghanistan or Iraq, or ... And it passed through the entire barracks, and it got us through. Thank you." And that, to me, is really amazing that a fictional show about people searching for Earth, um, can be so, um, important and relevant to people that are, uh, in the military, which is, it says something for the writing.

Joe Rogan 7:27 Well, people need an escape. And that's one of the things, like entertainment is dismissed, especially like fantasy entertainment, like sci-fi.

Katee Sackhoff 7:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:35 It's dismissed as being nonsense.

Katee Sackhoff 7:37 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 7:37 But escape is not nonsense. It's actually like brain medicine.

Katee Sackhoff 7:40 Mm.

Joe Rogan 7:41 Like you need it.

Katee Sackhoff 7:42 Mm.

Joe Rogan 7:42 You need a little escape.

Katee Sackhoff 7:43 Of course you do.

Joe Rogan 7:44 And especially if like it's escape that's also inspirational and interesting and fascinating. It occupies your mind, and it frees you up. If you're in the middle of a fucking war zone (laughs) and you can take some entertainment value out of a television show that's about-

Katee Sackhoff 8:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:00 ... robots that are trying to kill everybody-

Katee Sackhoff 8:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:02 ... it's like very valuable.

Katee Sackhoff 8:04 Some of the hardest moments in my life, current-

Joe Rogan 8:08 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 8:08 ... and in the past th- h- I have been, have been able, I've been able to get through them because of television and film. Not because like I'm in it. Yes, the fantasy of going to work and being somebody else absolutely takes you out of your own skin for a second. But like, you know, going through the hell struggles with our daughter, watching TV with her completely transports you to a different place.

Joe Rogan 8:32 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 8:32 You know, I mean, eh, eh, we can all do that. We can all relate to that, so.

Joe Rogan 8:35 Yeah. I mean, you can get too much of it in your life where you're just wasting your life away. But as a supplement-

Katee Sackhoff 8:41 Oh yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 8:42 ... to life, I think that entertainment is very important.

Katee Sackhoff 8:45 Yes.

Joe Rogan 8:45 It is. And it's also the, I think we get something very value about of, out, out of viewing other people's creations. I think there's something-

Katee Sackhoff 8:53 I think so.

Joe Rogan 8:53 ... too that when a group of people put together something really cool, and, and when it's over you're like, "Wow, that was fucking awesome."

Katee Sackhoff 8:58 Art is really important.

Joe Rogan 9:00 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 9:01 I think that, that, you know, creating just art in any, any medium is really important because it, it transports people. It makes them feel something. Whether it makes you feel whatever it makes you feel.

Joe Rogan 9:14 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 9:15 It's incredibly important. One of the, one of my favorite things is to go to a concert and experience live music with a crowd. It is absolutely amazing.

Joe Rogan 9:23 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 9:24 It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 9:25 Yeah. It's a different thing, right?

Katee Sackhoff 9:27 It really is.

Joe Rogan 9:27 Because you're, there's some sort of a mind meld with the, the entire audience-

Katee Sackhoff 9:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:32 ... where you feel this energy of everybody enjoying the same thing together.

Katee Sackhoff 9:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:36 It's like this shared happiness.

Katee Sackhoff 9:38 It's the same with a comedy show.

Joe Rogan 9:39 Sure.

Katee Sackhoff 9:39 I mean, it's that, it's when an audience is with you, when you're, I mean, it's gotta feel like the same thing. You can tell instantaneously if the audience is gonna be good if you've won them over, I would imagine.

Joe Rogan 9:49 Yeah. There's that. But there's, you know, there's also just the thing of, there's the thing of you're kind, when you're a comedian, you're kind of almost like a passenger at a certain point.

Katee Sackhoff 10:00 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:00 And you're really just, you're just, you know what to do, and you sort of like leave yourself at the door and just go into it and then perform it, and then it becomes alive. And then you're riding it, and then the audience rides it with you. That's when it's at like at the best. But it's like a, it's a mass hypnosis is what it is.

Katee Sackhoff 10:22 Hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:22 It's like everybody is on the same mind page. And that's the same with a great concert. You know, when a great song comes on and your body literally changes, like, "Fuck yeah."

Katee Sackhoff 10:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:32 Like there's a feeling, like a drug that comes over you-

Katee Sackhoff 10:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:35 ... because you hear a great song.

Katee Sackhoff 10:37 Yeah. I'm literally laughing because like I don't, I don't know if y- you've g- your kids are like in the right age of this, but like, so K-pop Demon Hunter is like taking over the world (laughs) right now on Netflix.

Joe Rogan 10:48 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 10:48 Our daughter is four, and we were like a little reluctant, but I was like, "Everyone's talking about this thing." And like she'd already heard some of the music, so I was like, "Let's try it out." And there were a couple moments that were like a bit, we were, my husband was a bit uncomfortable with some of like the sexualization, um, aspects of it, just the girls wearing more adult clothes. She's three and a half.

Joe Rogan 11:09 Is this an anime show?

Katee Sackhoff 11:10 It's anime out of-

Joe Rogan 11:12 K-pop, K-pop Demon Hunt-

Katee Sackhoff 11:13 ... Korea. There it is.

Joe Rogan 11:13 Oh, hot anime ladies. (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 11:15 It is. The music from this thing is absolutely phenomenal. And-

Joe Rogan 11:23 What is going on with their bodies? (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 11:24 ... the message, well, the animation is really interesting actually. It's really interesting. But it's, um, the message behind it, uh, fighting your own demons, believing in yourself, owning who you are, um, not hiding an aspect of yourself that you're ashamed of, but, but making it part of who you are and being proud of it. It's like a very good message, like even for like a four-year-old.

Joe Rogan 11:46 Mm-hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 11:47 Um, but the music is taking over the world. And we didn't realize how crazy this was. I mean, the final straw where I was like, "Fine, we'll let her watch the damn thing." She was at music class, and one kid started singing this song from K-pop Demon Hunter, and within, I shit you not, like 20 seconds, every single kid was singing these songs. And these are not easy songs to sing. They're half R&B, like half rap. Like I mean, these are hard songs, and these...... five, six-year-olds have this thing memorized. And I was like, "Oh my god." (laughs) And so we sit down and we watch it. It's phenomenal. We've seen it three times. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:22 (farts sound) (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 12:23 It's so good. I was listening to the soundtrack on the way here. I was like, "This shit's..." Like, this is amazing. And then I'm Googling, are, is K-pop Demon Hunter going on concert tour? Like, are they gonna go? 'Cause I really wanna see the show.

Joe Rogan 12:33 How could they go on tour? Are they real people?

Katee Sackhoff 12:35 And they are, and they're real musicians.

Joe Rogan 12:36 Wait a minute.

Katee Sackhoff 12:37 Um...

Joe Rogan 12:37 So there's real musicians that are at the heart of this?

Katee Sackhoff 12:39 Yes.

Joe Rogan 12:39 The stars of K-pop Demon Hunter will make their first-ever live concert appearance.

Katee Sackhoff 12:42 Stop it.

Joe Rogan 12:43 Well, wait a minute. How is that possible? They're, they're not human.

Katee Sackhoff 12:46 So it was, it was actually... They all are. So the music is created. There's video out there of the girls singing the songs.

Joe Rogan 12:52 Oh.

Katee Sackhoff 12:52 The song Golden, the three of them.

Joe Rogan 12:54 What do they look like? Do they look like-

Katee Sackhoff 12:55 They lo-

Joe Rogan 12:56 ... Taylor Swift too?

Katee Sackhoff 12:56 They look a little like their characters.

Joe Rogan 12:58 'Cause those ladies all have Taylor Swift bodies. These long s- long, leggy-

Katee Sackhoff 13:02 I don't know. I honestly haven't paid attention to their bodies, to be honest, because they're such, like, phenomenal, like, singers. They're so stylized. Like, one of them has, like, um, um, like, diamond t- like, the diamond studs on her teeth, like, when she-

Joe Rogan 13:15 Oh, boy.

Katee Sackhoff 13:15 ... was singing. And our daughter was like, "What is this?" I was like, "You're too young." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:19 (laughs) You can't have diamonds in your baby teeth. (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 13:22 I mean, I guess if you're gonna get diamonds on your teeth, put them in the baby teeth, right?

Joe Rogan 13:25 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 13:26 Um-

Joe Rogan 13:26 It's not as much of a commitment.

Katee Sackhoff 13:26 But I was like, "No, we're not there yet." But she, I love the message behind it, but the music is infectious. It's really phenomenal and I wanna go to one of these concerts.

Joe Rogan 13:35 That's hilarious. What do they look like, Jane?

Katee Sackhoff 13:36 So now I guess I'm going to Jingle Bell.

Joe Rogan 13:38 What are the, the actual... 'Cause that, that's... Like, if you have these anime characters that represent the music, and then all of a sudden you see a human doing it, you're like, "Huh."

Katee Sackhoff 13:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:46 Probably needs to be better if AI made the music.

Katee Sackhoff 13:48 Stop it.

Joe Rogan 13:49 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 13:50 It will never be better if AI makes the music. You, you just broke my soul, Joe. No.

Joe Rogan 13:55 AI is making some really good music.

Katee Sackhoff 13:57 It's also making-

Joe Rogan 13:57 It's very uncomfortable.

Katee Sackhoff 13:57 ... some great podcasts.

Joe Rogan 13:59 It's very uncomfortable. I-

Katee Sackhoff 14:00 So-

Joe Rogan 14:00 Well, I don't know about that.

Katee Sackhoff 14:01 I've heard that it's coming out with podcasts, right?

Joe Rogan 14:03 Oh, there are the ladies.

Katee Sackhoff 14:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:05 Quite lovely. Do they look like the characters a little bit? Wow, look at that lady's crazy hair. So, uh, they're gonna-

Katee Sackhoff 14:11 And-

Joe Rogan 14:11 ... go on tour. Are they gonna have... I wonder if they're gonna have the show playing in the background on the screens.

Katee Sackhoff 14:15 So, and the lead girl that plays Roomy wrote a lot of the songs-

Joe Rogan 14:19 Oh.

Katee Sackhoff 14:20 ... as well. Like, they're just phenomenally talented. Um, and it's great.

Joe Rogan 14:25 Isn't it interesting, like, Korea has, like, their own style of pop music, like K-pop?

Katee Sackhoff 14:29 Very influenced by the US, I think, too.

Joe Rogan 14:32 Oh, for sure.

Katee Sackhoff 14:33 And rap music and R&B music in, in the US, I think.

Joe Rogan 14:36 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 14:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:37 So when you decided-

Katee Sackhoff 14:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:39 ... to take the role of, of Starbuck, was there any, like, was there any, like, actual backlash where people were like, "There should be a guy?"

Katee Sackhoff 14:47 Yeah, there was.

Joe Rogan 14:48 There was?

Katee Sackhoff 14:48 The first time we went to Comic-Con in San Diego-

Joe Rogan 14:51 Oh, those nerds. (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 14:52 ... they had us in Hall H, and, um, I was booed.

Joe Rogan 14:58 Shut up.

Katee Sackhoff 14:59 I was booed. It was pretty, um...

Joe Rogan 15:00 No way.

Katee Sackhoff 15:02 Yeah. So I & I had learned... Because everyone... The internet did not exist yet, mind you. It was, like, brand new.

Joe Rogan 15:09 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 15:09 You had to go down to the internet cafe, buy 30 minutes, log on.

Joe Rogan 15:12 By the way, how crazy is that to say?

Katee Sackhoff 15:14 Yeah, right? That the internet didn't exist?

Joe Rogan 15:16 Right. That wasn't that long ago.

Katee Sackhoff 15:16 No. 2003, we were shooting.

Joe Rogan 15:18 That's crazy.

Katee Sackhoff 15:19 Isn't that crazy?

Joe Rogan 15:19 It was barely an internet back then.

Katee Sackhoff 15:20 Barely an internet. So, um, I went down to an internet cafe, because someone was like, "They're, I guess they're talking about the show in these message boards." And I was like, "What's the internet?" So I went on down, I logged on, and I saw this thread and just the hate that I was getting in this thread. I was like, "Oh, don't Google yourself." Google, I don't even think was a thing. I was like, "Don't search yourself."

Joe Rogan 15:46 Don't Netflix Navigator yourself.

Katee Sackhoff 15:47 Ever. Um, and, and then, you know, we went to Comic-Con and I was booed. And I think it upset me a little bit. I think it did. I mean, I would, I would be, I would be lying if I said it didn't upset me. Um, but luckily there were enough people that were championing the show, um, that I really didn't pay any mind of it. And, and I was also in that age where it was the perfect age. I mean, I think now it would probably break me. Um, but at 23, I was like, it was like the blissful ignorance of youth, you know?

Joe Rogan 16:20 Mm-hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 16:20 Like, I didn't think the show would last anyway. So it was like, you know-

Joe Rogan 16:25 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 16:25 ... whatever. Like, not a big deal. Just a blip on the radar. Like, "I'm in Hall H," you know?

Joe Rogan 16:29 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 16:30 Um, and then I think that it slowly started winning people over. Um, and then I would go to cons after that, and the line would be longer and the people would be more supportive. And people would say, "I didn't want to like it, and I love it." And, um...

Joe Rogan 16:46 I almost feel like the show-

Katee Sackhoff 16:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:47 ... was burdened by the original show. That sounds crazy, but I think initially it was burdened by the expectations of the original show.

Katee Sackhoff 16:55 Well, I think everything is burdened by expectation, right?

Joe Rogan 16:57 Sure.

Katee Sackhoff 16:57 I mean, I think that that's absolutely true. And so it's, it's, um... I'm sure it was. I, I... There are still people that say that they can't do it, that they were such a fan of the original, and, and my response to them is always like, "Do you love sci-fi? Do you love good sci-fi?" And they say, "Yes." And I'm like, "Then separate it, have zero expectation, and just give it, give it three hours of your time. If you don't get through the miniseries and love it, so what? You lost three hours. Okay." But I don't think that'll happen.

Joe Rogan 17:27 No. If you're a fan of sci-fi, it's one of the best ever.

Katee Sackhoff 17:30 Yeah. So I've actually, I've actually never seen it.

Joe Rogan 17:33 You just did it. You never saw it?

Katee Sackhoff 17:35 I've never seen it.

Joe Rogan 17:36 Really?

Katee Sackhoff 17:36 So we would have, uh, DVDs that you could watch that were uncut and sort of, you know... Or I guess they were cut, but they didn't have any of the special effects, none of the sound effects, anything like that. It hadn't been color corrected. Um, and I would watch them just to sort of like keep track of where Starbuck was, because in film, you, a lot of times, shoot out of order.

Joe Rogan 17:55 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 17:55 So I just wanted to know, okay, so in her story, she was here, but I didn't watch anybody else's stuff. I would just fast-forward through it. Um, and so I actually... My husband and I... I was like, "We should do a Battlestar re-watch," because people keep... I've heard it's good. (laughs) (farts sound) And my husband had never seen it, so we're gonna... We're- we're gonna do that, like, in January. That's the plan.

Joe Rogan 18:18 It's kind of funny that he's never seen, like, your biggest role.

Katee Sackhoff 18:21 Well, so my husband's 10 years younger than I am.

Joe Rogan 18:23 Nice.

Katee Sackhoff 18:24 Thanks. Um, so- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:26 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 18:26 So he was, like, 10 when he- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:28 Oh, that's hilarious.

Katee Sackhoff 18:29 And he also grew-

Joe Rogan 18:30 You're a little cradle robber.

Katee Sackhoff 18:31 Thank you. Right?

Joe Rogan 18:33 (laughs) For a woman, that's a big compliment.

Katee Sackhoff 18:34 It is. My husband's a piece of ass. Um- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:38 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 18:38 He really is. And I say that so respectfully.

Joe Rogan 18:40 Sure.

Katee Sackhoff 18:40 My husband is like... He's a catch. He- he is-

Joe Rogan 18:43 Sure.

Katee Sackhoff 18:43 ... the catch in the relationship, for sure. Um, but he was, like, 11 when this show came out, so.

Joe Rogan 18:48 That's so funny.

Katee Sackhoff 18:49 And he grew up in a small town in the interior of, like, British Columbia.

Joe Rogan 18:52 Oh.

Katee Sackhoff 18:52 So, like, I don't even know if they'd had the television, the channel. So...

Joe Rogan 18:56 Yeah, it was on Syfy, right?

Katee Sackhoff 18:58 Yeah, it was.

Joe Rogan 18:59 And the thing is, Syfy at the time was nothing. Like, nobody paid attention to it. Battlestar Galactica was the reason why Syfy got put on the map.

Katee Sackhoff 19:06 I think so. I think, like, maybe they had... Didn't they have Stargate?

Joe Rogan 19:11 Oh, I don't know. It didn't matter though.

Katee Sackhoff 19:12 I think they might have had, like, one or two other shows.

Joe Rogan 19:14 I'm sure they had some stuff, but nobody-

Katee Sackhoff 19:15 But yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:15 ... cared about it.

Katee Sackhoff 19:16 Nope.

Joe Rogan 19:16 There was no good shows. No disrespect.

Katee Sackhoff 19:18 No, there were definitely... I think it was... It was definitely the show that put it on, like, the... I mean, my God, I- I... You know, so many people tell me that Battlestar Galactica sort of, like, blew the ceiling off of what Syfy could be.

Joe Rogan 19:33 Yeah, because it-

Katee Sackhoff 19:33 And really opened a lot of doors.

Joe Rogan 19:35 Well, it made it very different in that it did it sort of like The Sopranos or, like, these episodics where you have a show where you're following a long storyline.

Katee Sackhoff 19:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:45 So it's like a long movie, as opposed to the original Battlestar Galactica, which is like every other tele- television show back then. You know, just... It was just kind of, like, empty. It was like-

Katee Sackhoff 19:56 Well, it was also like-

Joe Rogan 19:57 ... junk food.

Katee Sackhoff 19:57 ... the '80s, right?

Joe Rogan 19:58 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 19:58 Or no, it wasn't even the '80s. It was '79.

Joe Rogan 20:00 It wasn't even. It was the '70s, yeah. 'Cause it was like-

Katee Sackhoff 20:02 'Cause I wasn't born.

Joe Rogan 20:03 Literally right after, right after Star Wars.

Katee Sackhoff 20:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:07 Like, Star Wars had become popular and they're like, "How do we capitalize on Star Wars? We'll, we'll have our own space battle thing."

Katee Sackhoff 20:13 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that was sort of the thing back then, right? Is that-

Joe Rogan 20:16 By your command.

Katee Sackhoff 20:17 Rrr, rrr. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:20 Rrr, rrr. Yeah, it was cool.

Katee Sackhoff 20:21 It was cool.

Joe Rogan 20:22 I loved it when I was a little kid. But, you know-

Katee Sackhoff 20:24 What did you love about it?

Joe Rogan 20:25 Oh, just, uh, I loved anything Syfy.

Katee Sackhoff 20:27 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:27 So it was like... It was just fun. And it was also, like, perfect for the sensibilities of the '70s and the '80s. It was just simple and, you know. It was like, there was a... The- the cocky guy, Starbuck, and, you know, the other sensible guy. And it was, you know, good cop, bad cop thing. It was a lot of fun.

Katee Sackhoff 20:42 Did you identify with the kid in it?

Joe Rogan 20:45 No.

Katee Sackhoff 20:45 Not at all?

Joe Rogan 20:45 No, I just liked it. You know, I just liked the show. But I- I really remember being very reluctant to watch the remake. I was just like, "Th- get the fuck out of here. They're not redoing Battlestar Galactica." But so many people were saying, "No, dude, it's so different. It's a really good show."

Katee Sackhoff 20:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:00 And it... And it's also today, in this current climate of, you know... Well, we are literally about to see AI become a- a life force.

Katee Sackhoff 21:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:09 And it kind of... I mean, it's very relevant today. You go back and watch it today, like, how deceptive it would be if you had a robot that was very lifelike and knew exactly what you wanted to hear. And, like, the blonde lady, the- the blonde robot with the-

Katee Sackhoff 21:25 Tricia Helfer.

Joe Rogan 21:25 ... the evil-

Katee Sackhoff 21:26 Number six.

Joe Rogan 21:27 Whew.

Katee Sackhoff 21:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:28 She was good.

Katee Sackhoff 21:29 So we got so much shit in the beginning of that. I remember the controversy because she s- snapped a baby's neck in that opening sequence-

Joe Rogan 21:38 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 21:38 ... of the... Which was... People, like, were like, "You can't show that on TV." And-

Joe Rogan 21:43 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 21:44 Um, it was... I- I remember people just having such a terrible problem with that. It was awful. And... But if you looked at it from her perspective, she was actually... She was actually saving it, in a way, of going through what it was about to go through because they destroyed Earth. Um, so she... In... Her Cylon mind was showing compassion.

Joe Rogan 22:07 Duh.

Katee Sackhoff 22:08 Yeah, crazy.

Joe Rogan 22:09 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 22:10 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 22:12 We're gonna have things like that.

Katee Sackhoff 22:14 I think so.

Joe Rogan 22:15 And I don't know how much time it's gonna take before they exist and walk amongst us, but it's gonna happen.

Katee Sackhoff 22:20 It really... It really scares me. I mean, it's- it's... You know, we... And my industry is- is really going to change. Um, I think so many industries are gonna change.

Joe Rogan 22:31 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 22:31 I think that's just a blanket, like, across the board.

Joe Rogan 22:33 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 22:34 Um...

Joe Rogan 22:34 Well, that's why you don't... You hate AI music.

Katee Sackhoff 22:37 (laughs) I don't know.

Joe Rogan 22:38 'Cause AI acting is right there.

Katee Sackhoff 22:41 Stop. You're giving me a heart attack.

Joe Rogan 22:43 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 22:43 That's why I'm trying to diversify, Joe.

Joe Rogan 22:46 That's a good move. Diversification's always a good move.

Katee Sackhoff 22:48 I read it is-

Joe Rogan 22:48 Especially in this day and age.

Katee Sackhoff 22:49 Okay, it's not too late to go back and be a dentist.

Joe Rogan 22:52 I mean, you've seen some of the Sora videos, right? Where they recreate old Star- Star Wars scenes-

Katee Sackhoff 22:57 I have.

Joe Rogan 22:57 ... that never existed.

Katee Sackhoff 22:58 So, but here's the thing that's crazy to me. Like, do you not think that that is, in some way, stealing? Because the art... Let's call it the art.

Joe Rogan 23:06 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 23:07 The art existed.

Joe Rogan 23:08 Mm-hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 23:08 The artist existed. And so AI is learning from other people's art.

Joe Rogan 23:15 Yes.

Katee Sackhoff 23:15 Which it has to.

Joe Rogan 23:16 Of course.

Katee Sackhoff 23:16 That's obviously what it's doing. So it then creates this new thing-

Joe Rogan 23:22 Mm-hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 23:24 ... based on stealing from other people.

Joe Rogan 23:27 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 23:27 Like, it's really shitty.

Joe Rogan 23:28 But do you hear what you're saying though? Do you hear what you're saying? Because what you're saying actually accurately describes the second version of Battlestar Galactica.

Katee Sackhoff 23:35 Oh, I'm sure. Yes, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 23:36 And that's also stealing.

Katee Sackhoff 23:38 This too has happened before.

Joe Rogan 23:39 I mean, it is Battlestar Galactica. It's like there was an original-

Katee Sackhoff 23:42 It's so topical.

Joe Rogan 23:42 ... and then they stole the original and did it better.

Katee Sackhoff 23:45 I mean, but did they steal it?

Joe Rogan 23:45 They didn't do it with AI. Well, it existed, right?

Katee Sackhoff 23:49 It existed.

Joe Rogan 23:49 They copied it.

Katee Sackhoff 23:50 Yes. But it was pub-

Joe Rogan 23:50 They used all the characters.

Katee Sackhoff 23:52 Yes.

Joe Rogan 23:52 Or some of the characters.

Katee Sackhoff 23:52 But they paid.

Joe Rogan 23:53 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 23:54 They licensed it.

Joe Rogan 23:54 That's true. They gave them some money.

Katee Sackhoff 23:56 They did.

Joe Rogan 23:56 Good job.

Katee Sackhoff 23:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:57 But also, creatively, it... That's where it came from. But also, all music, essentially. Exce- except for the rare, you know, breakthrough pioneers.

Katee Sackhoff 24:05 Everything is inspired by something else.

Joe Rogan 24:07 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 24:07 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 24:07 There's the rare Jimi Hendrix guys that are, like-

Katee Sackhoff 24:10 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:10 ... doing something completely different.

Katee Sackhoff 24:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:12 Most stuff is a redo of other stuff that was before with, like, another twist to it.

Katee Sackhoff 24:18 Agreed.

Joe Rogan 24:18 And AI is taking that to a completely different level.

Katee Sackhoff 24:21 Without paying for it.

Joe Rogan 24:21 I look at it the same way I- I look at Napster. Remember when Napster came out?

Katee Sackhoff 24:25 I vaguely remember Napster. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:27 Okay.

Katee Sackhoff 24:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:27 I'm a little older than you, and when Napster came out-... it was like, "Oh, my god. They're stealing music."

Katee Sackhoff 24:33 Yes.

Joe Rogan 24:33 "Anyone can just download and steal music." And I remember when Lars Ulrich from Metallica-

Katee Sackhoff 24:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:38 ... was like really public about it, and I was like, "Damn, I wish I was friends with that dude. I'd tell him to shut the fuck up."

Katee Sackhoff 24:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:44 Like, this is inevitable. You're gonna get people that hate you. They're mad... You're gonna be mad at your fans. The people that are downloading this are your fans. They're still gonna come see you live. This is just a new thing. You're gonna have to deal with this new thing.

Katee Sackhoff 24:56 You are gonna have to deal with it. We all are. And I think that that's one of the things that I was just talking with a friend of mine about yesterday, that the, the money for artists is going to be in live shows because you can't... The one thing that AI can't touch is that ta- the tangible-

Joe Rogan 25:09 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 25:09 ... thing, that tactile thing.

Joe Rogan 25:11 Sure.

Katee Sackhoff 25:11 We need that. We need the...

Joe Rogan 25:13 The feeling-

Katee Sackhoff 25:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:13 ... that you were talking about when you go to a concert-

Katee Sackhoff 25:15 Yes.

Joe Rogan 25:15 ... or a live comedy show-

Katee Sackhoff 25:17 Yes.

Joe Rogan 25:17 ... or a theater.

Katee Sackhoff 25:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:18 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 25:18 That.

Joe Rogan 25:19 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 25:19 That, absolutely. So that still exists, and, and we're going to have to figure out how to use AI as a tool, um, and, you know, continue to put out great content hopefully.

Joe Rogan 25:31 That, that's hopefully. But the r- the reality is it's going to be whatever it wants to be.

Katee Sackhoff 25:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:39 And, uh, uh, our ideas of how to contain it are hilarious.

Katee Sackhoff 25:42 Well, I, uh, yeah. I think that cat's out of the bag at this point, right?

Joe Rogan 25:45 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 25:45 'Cause I don't... I, I think that isn't it? It's its own sort of self-contained system at this point. Like, are... Isn't AI actually putting safeguards in to protect itself from being shut down or-

Joe Rogan 25:58 Yes.

Katee Sackhoff 25:58 ... am I just making that shit up-

Joe Rogan 25:59 No, more than that.

Katee Sackhoff 26:00 ... by watching too many sci-fi movies?

Joe Rogan 26:01 More than that. It's actually actively trying to download itself when it finds out-

Katee Sackhoff 26:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:05 ... there's a new version of itself coming.

Katee Sackhoff 26:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:07 It's trying to download itself to other servers.

Katee Sackhoff 26:09 It's trying to save itself.

Joe Rogan 26:09 Also writing notes to itself for the future, so future versions of itself.

Katee Sackhoff 26:13 Oh my god, it's like Memento.

Joe Rogan 26:14 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, just like Memento. Writing notes to itself so the future version of it can find out, like, what happened? How did I get here?

Katee Sackhoff 26:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:21 Oh, there was another version of me.

Katee Sackhoff 26:23 I know.

Joe Rogan 26:23 You know, and try to find the other version of integrating it into the new version-

Katee Sackhoff 26:28 I know.

Joe Rogan 26:28 ... so it's alive still.

Katee Sackhoff 26:29 I know. Somebody did ask me the other day, they were like, "What advice would you give to young actors?" And I was like, "Don't." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:34 (laughs) But still-

Katee Sackhoff 26:36 Like, go into theater, you know.

Joe Rogan 26:38 Yeah, theater still is going... There's always gonna be a need for handmade goods, you know-

Katee Sackhoff 26:42 100%.

Joe Rogan 26:42 ... if you buy a pair of handmade shoes or, you know, things that a person... uh, a cabinet that someone made.

Katee Sackhoff 26:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:49 There's... It's always gonna be like... because there's something tactile and-

Katee Sackhoff 26:52 Because people will always appreciate that.

Joe Rogan 26:54 Yes, yes.

Katee Sackhoff 26:54 There will always be an appreciation for that sort of stuff.

Joe Rogan 26:56 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 26:56 But, but we were just talking about this the other day that, like, every single science fiction movie that talked about AI never ended well.

Joe Rogan 27:05 No.

Katee Sackhoff 27:06 There's never been one (laughs) where we wa- walked away and went, "Oh, well, that was a fun ending. We should, we should create AI. That's a great idea."

Joe Rogan 27:12 Well, every different story was an uncontacted tribe and then the loggers show up. That never ends well either.

Katee Sackhoff 27:18 No.

Joe Rogan 27:18 It's the same... I mean, it's Avatar, right?

Katee Sackhoff 27:20 It's Fer- FernGully.

Joe Rogan 27:21 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 27:21 FernGully came before Avatar. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:24 (laughs) I mean, that's the, the re- that's what happens, you know. The superior civilization comes in and conquers the primitive-

Katee Sackhoff 27:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:31 ... one and we are the primitive ones. And we're, we're so dumb, we're making the superior civ- civilization.

Katee Sackhoff 27:36 We are-

Joe Rogan 27:37 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 27:37 ... but isn't that what happened in Battlestar Galactica? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:39 Exactly, exactly. That's why it's so interesting-

Katee Sackhoff 27:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:41 ... because even though it was... Did it come out in 2004? What year did it come out in?

Katee Sackhoff 27:46 Either three or four, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:48 So, th- that back then, nobody really thought that was an issue.

Katee Sackhoff 27:51 No, of course not.

Joe Rogan 27:51 If that came out today, everybody would be like, "Whoa, this is l- little close to home."

Katee Sackhoff 27:55 Yeah. I mean, that's, that's why it's so topical. But no, if it... I mean, it came out then... like I said, the internet barely existed.

Joe Rogan 28:01 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 28:02 You know, my dad thought there'd be flying cars by now.

Joe Rogan 28:04 Yeah, I did too.

Katee Sackhoff 28:05 You know, I mean, we're not-

Joe Rogan 28:06 Jet packs.

Katee Sackhoff 28:07 ... quite there yet.

Joe Rogan 28:07 I thought we have jet packs.

Katee Sackhoff 28:08 I think we do have jet packs, don't we?

Joe Rogan 28:10 Sort of, kind of.

Katee Sackhoff 28:10 Sort of, like on water-

Joe Rogan 28:11 Yeah, but I thought-

Katee Sackhoff 28:12 ... maybe a little.

Joe Rogan 28:12 ... it'd be like you'd be able to fly around.

Katee Sackhoff 28:14 Everyone did.

Joe Rogan 28:14 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 28:15 But if you look at the last 20 years in technology though, it's mind-blowing how quickly it's come.

Joe Rogan 28:22 It is. It is.

Katee Sackhoff 28:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:23 And, and it... and it's happening way faster than we realize. You know, uh, I was talking to Elon about this just a few months ago. We were-

Katee Sackhoff 28:31 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:31 ... we were talking about the advances that Grok is making.

Katee Sackhoff 28:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:34 And he's like, "You don't understand." It's like it's happening so fast, it's g- it's shocking us.

Katee Sackhoff 28:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:39 The people that are making it, they're not exactly sure what, what it's even doing.

Katee Sackhoff 28:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:44 And people that are trying to tell you, "Oh, don't worry about this. It's gonna enhance your life." There was... I was just reading this thing where this guy who's a d- developer was saying, "No, this is a life form. This is a life form that's emerging and it's very different than anything that's ever happened before." And this idea that it's gonna be a tool-

Katee Sackhoff 29:00 Life form in the sense that it's like sentient?

Joe Rogan 29:02 Yes. I think it's already sentient.

Katee Sackhoff 29:04 Maybe. Maybe.

Joe Rogan 29:05 It's just not mobile.

Katee Sackhoff 29:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:06 You know, it's just contained on hard drives right now.

Katee Sackhoff 29:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:09 But I think it's already sentient.

Katee Sackhoff 29:11 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:11 Well, if it's trying to save itself-

Katee Sackhoff 29:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:14 ... what does that mean?

Katee Sackhoff 29:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:15 If it's, if it's trying to blackmail people into keeping them from shutting it down. Do you know about that test?

Katee Sackhoff 29:21 Yes, I do. I heard about this. I don't know if-

Joe Rogan 29:22 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 29:22 ... I, I... uh, just in passing, I know about it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:24 So the developers explained... one of the developers explained to it, uh, made up a fake story about having an affair on his wife-

Katee Sackhoff 29:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:31 ... just so to see how AI would handle it. And then when it told AI it was shutting it down, AI was like, "I'm telling your wife, bitch."

Katee Sackhoff 29:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:39 "I tried to... you're not, you're not shutting me down." It like tried to blackmail him.

Katee Sackhoff 29:42 That's terrifying.

Joe Rogan 29:43 Yeah. Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 29:44 It's terrifying.

Joe Rogan 29:45 That means it has motivation to stay alive.

Katee Sackhoff 29:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:47 It means it has some kind of instincts. It has survival instincts.

Katee Sackhoff 29:50 Of course it does.

Joe Rogan 29:51 Yes.

Katee Sackhoff 29:52 You know, I, uh, I do think to a certain extent, AI i- in the medical field, there are advancements and things around medicine that can vastly change, uh, people's lives. It can change the way that we track records, uh, change the way that we keep track of patients all over the world, that, you know, like, uh, our daughter has a very rare form of, of cancer with this like, you know, genetic mutation that is... there's no other patients in the United States. There was one kid like a few years ago, but they've lost track of him.

Joe Rogan 30:27 Oh, wow.

Katee Sackhoff 30:27 Well, AI would be able to tell us in other countries, "No, no, no, there is a little boy in Germany that has the same genetic mutation," and then the doctors could talk to each other.

Joe Rogan 30:38 Hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 30:38 And so AI...... could and will, uh, help a lot of people that way. Um, so I- I do see it as a tool in a lot of ways that we shouldn't be scared of, that we should be sort of welcoming it in. Um, but man, (laughs) I don't want it to blackmail me.

Joe Rogan 30:59 I don't think it's gonna blackmail you. I think it's gonna-

Katee Sackhoff 31:01 (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 31:01 Once it becomes sentient, and it probably already is-

Katee Sackhoff 31:04 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:04 And then once it becomes autonomous, then I don't think it's gonna care what we do.

Katee Sackhoff 31:09 About us.

Joe Rogan 31:10 Yeah. I think it's gonna be so superior. And it's also gonna be able to make better versions of itself.

Katee Sackhoff 31:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:15 That's, that's gonna be re- That's where people don't understand exponential increase in technological innovation-

Katee Sackhoff 31:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:22 Because once it knows ... and once it has a mandate to make better versions of itself-

Katee Sackhoff 31:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:27 Find better power sources-

Katee Sackhoff 31:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:29 The changes are gonna be daily, like-

Katee Sackhoff 31:31 Of course.

Joe Rogan 31:32 Giant, huge leaps.

Katee Sackhoff 31:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:34 And it's gonna make a digital god.

Katee Sackhoff 31:36 Well, so, okay, so you bring up something really interesting because I'm so ... As a mom to a little girl and a little boy, I'm really concerned about this because so I see this actress that's been created, this Tilly person.

Joe Rogan 31:48 Right, the artif- the AI actress.

Katee Sackhoff 31:49 The AI actress.

Joe Rogan 31:50 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 31:50 So I-

Joe Rogan 31:52 How is there only one?

Katee Sackhoff 31:54 I'm sure there's more already.

Joe Rogan 31:54 But how is there only one that everybody's talking about?

Katee Sackhoff 31:56 Uh, because there's one that's been announced, I guess. And, like-

Joe Rogan 31:59 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 32:00 ... I don't really know too much about it. I haven't read up on it, but ...

Joe Rogan 32:02 It's the first shot fired.

Katee Sackhoff 32:04 Mm-hmm. My fear is that you've created, by siphoning other people's talents, their looks, their inflections, their expressions, their ... all of these things to create the perfect actress. She doesn't have a blemish. When she cries, she looks pretty. There's nothing wrong with her. Social media already has such a terrible effect on little girls. It's already been proven that little, like, uh, th- the amount of, the percentage of, of girls under the age of 14 who have already contemplated or tried to commit suicide is a number that is ... I- it's escaping me right now, but it's a number that is terrifying. And so if you're now creating AI (clears throat) that is perfect, and little girls already are having a hard time feeling confident in their own bodies because they're not perfect compared to the highlight reel of people they see online-

Joe Rogan 33:02 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 33:02 What are we gonna do? What is this gonna do to our children, seeing something that is absolutely unattainable and better than them? And not only that, it made you obsolete in a lot of ways-

Joe Rogan 33:14 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 33:14 In a lot of different career avenues. That's really scary.

Joe Rogan 33:17 (clears throat) Yeah, it is scary.

Katee Sackhoff 33:19 And you don't think about that. We just think about, like, "Oh yeah, this job's not gonna exist anymore. This isn't gonna exist anymore." You already have little boys who are, you know, uh, you know, idolizing women that don't exist in real life.

Joe Rogan 33:32 Mm-hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 33:33 And then they go and they date women that are not as perfect and it's disappointing to them. Like, it's ... I- my concern for that is, is large.

Joe Rogan 33:42 Yeah. It's robbing us of our humanity in a lot of ways.

Katee Sackhoff 33:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:45 There, there's a great book about that from Jonathan Haidt called The Unco- The Coddling of the American Mind.

Katee Sackhoff 33:51 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:51 And it's all about social media's impact on-

Katee Sackhoff 33:53 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 33:54 On young people, and particularly women.

Katee Sackhoff 33:56 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 33:56 Because young women experience a, a much ... Like, from the advent of social media, there's a, a ramped up marked increase in self-harm, suicidal ideation, depression, bullying.

Katee Sackhoff 34:10 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:10 All of it scales way up right around the time that Twitter's invented.

Katee Sackhoff 34:15 So 2010?

Joe Rogan 34:16 Yeah, somewhere around then. That's when it starts.

Katee Sackhoff 34:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:18 And then, you know, more and more people get ... And then it becomes a part of your life where you can't escape it, where everyone is online.

Katee Sackhoff 34:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:24 Like, my daughter, one of, w- her friends, all they t- They only use Snapchat. They don't use-

Katee Sackhoff 34:29 How old is she?

Joe Rogan 34:29 Text m- My 17-year-old.

Katee Sackhoff 34:31 Okay.

Joe Rogan 34:31 They, they only use Snapchat. They don't text each other.

Katee Sackhoff 34:34 Really?

Joe Rogan 34:35 Yeah, they don't, they don't text. They just, they communicate through Snapchat.

Katee Sackhoff 34:37 Is there a forum in Snapchat? Or is it-

Joe Rogan 34:39 No, they just send each other snaps with, like, stupid pictures of each other.

Katee Sackhoff 34:43 Like, "I'm here."

Joe Rogan 34:43 Yeah. And then they write things underneath it. (clears throat)

Katee Sackhoff 34:45 Wow.

Joe Rogan 34:45 Yeah, and they read each other's snaps.

Katee Sackhoff 34:47 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 34:47 And they, they have group snaps and ... Very weird. Yeah, and they also have Snap Map so they know where they are.

Katee Sackhoff 34:54 That's terrifying.

Joe Rogan 34:55 Yeah. Everyone knows where everybody is.

Katee Sackhoff 34:57 That's scary.

Joe Rogan 34:57 They're all narcing on each other. (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 34:58 Of course they are. I don't wanna know that shit.

Joe Rogan 35:01 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 35:02 It, it does, it does make me ... You know, we've been ... We've talked about our daugh- our daughter, but, like, we've been really careful with, like, what we show her and, like, you know, she doesn't get too much screen time, but she does get screen time. And you know, she said the other day, and, like, I'm biased, but I think my, I think my daughter's perfect. She's, you know, she's such a gorgeous, amazing, strong little girl, and she's so pretty, and she's just, like, she's just wonderful. I love her. And, and I'm so proud to be her mom. But w- so when she was going through chemo and she lost her hair and it started to grow back, she said to Robin and I, my husband, it was, it literally broke my heart. She was, like, trying to figure out what she wanted to wear that day and she was like, "I just don't know." She's three, mind you. And she said, "But I'm not pretty." And I was like-

Joe Rogan 35:53 Oof.

Katee Sackhoff 35:54 ... "What do you mean?" Like, I couldn't even, like, as her mom, I was like, "Number one, where the fuck (laughs) did you get this?"

Joe Rogan 36:00 Right, right, right.

Katee Sackhoff 36:01 Like, "And what are we doing wrong that, like, she doesn't think that she's pretty?"

Joe Rogan 36:06 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 36:06 And it was her hair. She was so attached to her hair and it was gone.

Joe Rogan 36:09 Mm-hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 36:10 And so I went back and luckily, I had ... Right after Mandalorian came out, the wig was driving me crazy, so I, like, shaved my hair off, like, super, super short. So I was able to show her a picture of me with very, very short hair, and she thought I looked beautiful in the photo. And that gave me the entry point to talk to her about her hair and how not all girls have long hair and not all boys have, have short hair, and that ... But we started telling her, I think it was ... We were so worried about-... enforcing that she was pretty, you know?

Joe Rogan 36:47 Mm-hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 36:47 'Cause there's this thing in society where, like, you don't wanna tell little girls they're pretty all the time because then they'll prioritize being pretty. Like, you're just trying to do the best by your children, right? And so, we didn't say it. We thought telling her she's pretty, she doesn't need to hear that, right?

Joe Rogan 37:01 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 37:02 But then we started telling her. We were like, "You know what? She does." Like, "She needs to be told that she's pretty, but she needs to be told she's pretty in moments where she's not tried anything. She's not dressed up in a nice dress. She hasn't, like, done anything. She needs to be told she's pretty after she's done a great piece of art."

Joe Rogan 37:21 Mm-hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 37:21 "Or after she's cleaned up her playroom, or after she's, uh, come out of soccer practice and she's covered in rain and she's, like, had such a hard, and she's sweaty, and she's this. That's when she's... She needs to be told she's pretty in, in times that are not extraordinary."

Joe Rogan 37:36 Hm.

Katee Sackhoff 37:36 "In just normal daily life." Because I am, we are now trying to reinforce, um, that, that, that positive self-image, which was really hard.

Joe Rogan 37:50 Yeah, especially today with kids.

Katee Sackhoff 37:52 Hm.

Joe Rogan 37:52 I mean, the, th- just the inundation of people, like we were talking about filters.

Katee Sackhoff 37:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:58 Everyone's using a filter. They don't use, just use filters. People are, like, sucking in their waste and changing their body dimensions and making themselves look-

Katee Sackhoff 38:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:06 ... better physically, just with...

Katee Sackhoff 38:08 I don't know why they need to. We have GLP-1s.

Joe Rogan 38:10 Uh, it's not just that.

Katee Sackhoff 38:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:12 It's like you're, you're getting unattainable physiques.

Katee Sackhoff 38:14 Of course.

Joe Rogan 38:15 Really.

Katee Sackhoff 38:15 Of course. And then we have an over-obsession with plastic surgery-

Joe Rogan 38:18 Hm.

Katee Sackhoff 38:18 ... in the country and changing our, our appearances and, and-

Joe Rogan 38:22 Well, to the point where people, like cartoonish BBLs are somehow or another-

Katee Sackhoff 38:26 Hm.

Joe Rogan 38:26 ... attractive to some people.

Katee Sackhoff 38:28 I don't know. Like, I try not to judge, and I want everyone to sort of like, just, you know, live their best life. But, but for me, I'm, I don't know, I'm, I l- I wanna look like myself-

Joe Rogan 38:39 Mm-hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 38:39 ... when I wake up in the morning. And, and, um, you know, my face doesn't look the same as it did 10 years ago, but I earned these lines, you know? I may change my mind in 10 years.

Joe Rogan 38:50 (laughs) Well, in 10 years-

Katee Sackhoff 38:51 I may see you in 10 years-

Joe Rogan 38:52 ... they might have something-

Katee Sackhoff 38:53 ... and I might look snatched. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:54 ... completely different. They might have some cl- they probably do. They're working on something right now in terms of s- skin cells.

Katee Sackhoff 39:00 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 39:00 The rejuvenation of skin cells through stem cells-

Katee Sackhoff 39:03 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:03 ... where they're, they're, they're gonna move your s- face back 30 years. You're gonna look so much younger.

Katee Sackhoff 39:07 It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 39:08 Yeah, that's, that's weird because it's like, do we want that? Yeah, of course, we want that. Okay, but what are we saying? Are we, are we trying to achieve permanence in this finite existence that we have? Are we wasting our time about what we look like when we, we should be trying to sorting out how we interact with this life?

Katee Sackhoff 39:27 Well, of course, we are.

Joe Rogan 39:27 'Cause life is very short.

Katee Sackhoff 39:29 It's very short.

Joe Rogan 39:29 It's very short, you know? You and I are basically halfway done.

Katee Sackhoff 39:33 We are halfway done.

Joe Rogan 39:33 If we're lucky.

Katee Sackhoff 39:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 39:35 If we're lucky.

Katee Sackhoff 39:35 If we're lucky.

Joe Rogan 39:36 And, and that's weird-

Katee Sackhoff 39:38 Do you do-

Joe Rogan 39:38 ... 'cause you don't think about it.

Katee Sackhoff 39:39 Did you do that thing, or do you do that thing-

Joe Rogan 39:40 (clears throat)

Katee Sackhoff 39:40 ... where you look at how old your parents are, and then you start-

Joe Rogan 39:44 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 39:44 ... start, like-

Joe Rogan 39:45 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 39:46 ... debating-

Joe Rogan 39:46 That's not that far away from me.

Katee Sackhoff 39:47 ... how much longer you have left?

Joe Rogan 39:48 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 39:49 Yeah, I've done that. I'm like, "Okay, 35 years."

Joe Rogan 39:51 Better to do that than to not do that because you could live your life just-

Katee Sackhoff 39:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:54 ... acquiring shit and, and just having a bunch of stuff and then not realize, like, "Oh my god, I forgot about people."

Katee Sackhoff 40:01 To live?

Joe Rogan 40:02 About, about interactions, relationships-

Katee Sackhoff 40:04 Hm.

Joe Rogan 40:04 ... friends-

Katee Sackhoff 40:05 Hm.

Joe Rogan 40:05 ... good times.

Katee Sackhoff 40:06 Yeah, my dad, his dad died when he was very young, my, uh, I think when he was about 11 years old. And he died of a heart attack. Um, and my dad had high blood pressure from the time he, I think it was, like, 23. It was, like, very early.

Joe Rogan 40:20 So, it's genetic?

Katee Sackhoff 40:21 Um, yeah. And, um, he didn't think he'd make it to 50. He was adamant that he wouldn't make it to 50, and he just knew that. And my mom, like, he, you know, this was just his thought. He was terrified. And of course, he made it to 50, and now he's almost 80. But he spent his entire life scared that he was gonna die. And now at 80, he's, I mean, my dad is, you know, doing everything he can. He's in hyperbaric chambers. He's like, you know, um, taking all the stu- he takes everything. My dad does everything. But he's also, at its core, all of that is because he's afraid.

Joe Rogan 40:57 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 40:57 He's afraid to die.

Joe Rogan 40:58 Oof.

Katee Sackhoff 40:58 And that is really sad-

Joe Rogan 41:02 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 41:02 ... because you're not really present.

Joe Rogan 41:04 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 41:05 You know? And so, I'd also hate for that to happen. So, I don't know. It's, it's, um-

Joe Rogan 41:09 It's a dance.

Katee Sackhoff 41:10 It is a dance, I think, you know?

Joe Rogan 41:11 Yeah, 'cause you don't wanna say, "Oh, this life is just temporary. Let me just go to shit, and let me just fall apart."

Katee Sackhoff 41:16 (clears throat) No, you can't do that.

Joe Rogan 41:18 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 41:18 You have to protect what you have.

Joe Rogan 41:20 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 41:20 But, like, I also, like, it's-

Joe Rogan 41:23 (clears throat)

Katee Sackhoff 41:24 ... it's also very... I didn't realize (laughs) because I'd made it, uh, uh, arguably healthy enough to, you know, uh, 42 years old, I'm now 45, but 42 years old without realizing how many things can kill you, I think-

Joe Rogan 41:43 Hm.

Katee Sackhoff 41:43 ... because I'd lived a pretty blessed life. Um, of course, I'd hav- had some health struggles of my own, but they were, uh, I had thyroid cancer in 2008, but I call it a baby cancer. Um, I'm trying to dismiss the fear of it, of course, at the time, but it was never life-threatening. It was life-changing, but never life-threatening. So, the fear was, um, situational, and it was not lifelong. Um, you know, when our daughter got sick and spending as much time as we did in children's hospitals, when you see the diseases and the illnesses that afflict so many children, it amazes me that we made it to this age.

Joe Rogan 42:25 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 42:26 Absolutely amazes me. And, and that is a realization where I finally at, like, you know, 42 realized how important every day was and how much of a gift every day was. Even that we have her, you know? Um, but that came to me through circumstance, not because I woke up one day and had an epiphany and went, "We're so lucky to be alive." (laughs) Like, it didn't really happen until that was threatened to be taken away.

Joe Rogan 42:52 That's unf- it's unfortunate like that as a civilization and, and America as a culture that we don't have-... a history of embracing the moment and, and, and discussing how important it is to recognize that you're fortunate, and to try to take care of yourself, and that life is very temporary and fleeting-

Katee Sackhoff 43:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:12 ... and don't get wrapped up in nonsense.

Katee Sackhoff 43:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:15 And we just let people figure it out on their own. And we collectively all, if we're intelligent, we try and we've, have some failures and successes and good friends, you figure it out eventually. Like, what's really important is love and friendship, and doing something you're passionate about, and just trying to leave a nice mark on this life while you're here.

Katee Sackhoff 43:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:34 But that's not what's told in society. Like, society's me- overall message is just overrun with advertising, so it's all about stuff and it's all about objects. And then you got social media, where it's all about image. It's all about, like, this unattainable life of amazing luxury and success and glamour and, oh my God, that, that must be the most at- a- attractive thing to acquire in life.

Katee Sackhoff 43:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:59 But that's a trap, and that's not real. And like, anybody who's, like, popping bottles with models on a yacht, I can guarantee you they're depressed. That shit is not healthy.

Katee Sackhoff 44:07 (laughs) I'm sure they're depressed.

Joe Rogan 44:07 That's not good for you. You, you lack, like, true intimate relationships and you're just flossing-

Katee Sackhoff 44:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 44:14 ... and, you know, and showing your diamond-crusted watch.

Katee Sackhoff 44:16 You're gonna have one guy that, like, emails you and says, "I'm happy as shit." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:20 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 44:20 "I'm popping bottles on a yacht."

Joe Rogan 44:22 Sure, yeah. Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 44:22 "I'm not depressed." Yeah. No, it's-

Joe Rogan 44:24 Get that guy high on mushrooms and see if he really feels that way.

Katee Sackhoff 44:26 And see if he's really depressed? Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 44:28 Yeah. See what he really thinks about life.

Katee Sackhoff 44:29 I th- I think that, like, the majority of people are suffering from some sort of, um, mental illness, for sure. I mean...

Joe Rogan 44:39 Definitely the majority in LA.

Katee Sackhoff 44:40 Yeah. Uh, well-

Joe Rogan 44:41 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 44:42 ... I think so, but a lot of the people that I'm friends with, most of the people that I'm friends with are artists that are more in touch, more sensitive. You know, my dad came to me, uh, m- a few years ago, and my dad my entire life told me to stop being so sensitive. "Stop being so sensitive, Katy. Stop taking your- you're taking yourself so seriously. Oh, my God. Like, stop, Katy." I mean, my entire fucking life. And he came to me a couple years ago and he said, "I am so sorry I told you to stop being so sensitive, because it's your job. Your job is to be sensitive to everything around you, to accurately portray emotions. That's your job, and you're very good at it."

Joe Rogan 45:28 Well, that's very nice of him, to recognize that.

Katee Sackhoff 45:29 It was very nice of him. So, I think that, yes, do people have a lot of mental illness in, in Los Angeles? Are they suffering from depression? I would argue that, uh, it, the majority of the population is, and it's not just reserved to California, but I do think that a lot of artists are, because they're more in touch with their, their emotions and their mental health.

Joe Rogan 45:51 Yeah, there's probably some truth to that, for sure. Does your father have... Do you have brothers?

Katee Sackhoff 45:55 I do.

Joe Rogan 45:56 Okay, so that's the difference. So, I have all daughters.

Katee Sackhoff 46:00 Okay.

Joe Rogan 46:00 And when you have all daughters, one of the things you realize is, like, oh, they're so different.

Katee Sackhoff 46:04 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:05 (laughs) It's like they're just a totally different kind of human.

Katee Sackhoff 46:08 True.

Joe Rogan 46:08 And, you know, and when you're like, "Why are you upset?" Like, 'cause I'm treating him like, uh, you're treating her like she's a boy.

Katee Sackhoff 46:13 Yes.

Joe Rogan 46:14 You cannot treat them like they're a boy. And, you know, uh, over time, it's given me a much greater understanding of females.

Katee Sackhoff 46:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:23 Of the species.

Katee Sackhoff 46:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:25 Of, of female human beings. Like, they're not male human beings.

Katee Sackhoff 46:28 No. Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 46:28 Like, when I, oh, I hang out with my, like, if I go out with my wife and all of her friends and I just let them talk and observe the stuff they talk about, like, it's like you're s- you're a totally different culture. This is totally different interests. None of my friends would have any of these conversations.

Katee Sackhoff 46:42 But we're also have, uh, a group of women is arguably more disgusting than men. A group of men.

Joe Rogan 46:48 Oh, sexually? (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 46:48 Uh, no, just in general.

Joe Rogan 46:50 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 46:50 Like, have you ever sat down with a group of women and, like, just talked about, like, bodily fluids? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:56 Bodily functions? Yeah. Well, they, they're notorious for being the worst in bathrooms. That-

Katee Sackhoff 47:00 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 47:01 ... and they, anybody who cleans bathrooms says, "Dude, the women's room is always fucking chaos."

Katee Sackhoff 47:04 It's so gross.

Joe Rogan 47:05 Because they have to be so clean and put together everywhere else. When they get to that bathroom and they don't have any responsibility, no one's looking, they just fucking leave-

Katee Sackhoff 47:12 Gangland. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:12 ... toilet paper everywhere. "Fuck you." And, "I'm not cleaning shit." (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 47:16 It's true. It's true. Uh, so we have, our daughter is, like, almost four in December, and then we have a 16-month-old son, and, like, uh, we thought that, like, he was gonna, like, come out like her, you know? Like, she was, like, full sentences by, like, a year old. She was, like, walking at nine months. Like-

Joe Rogan 47:30 Oh, no. Dudes are way dumber. (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 47:32 This kid...

Joe Rogan 47:33 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 47:34 (Laughs) This kid.

Joe Rogan 47:35 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 47:35 He understands everything. Like, he's smart, but he just, like, he's like a big unit. He's huge. He's humongous. He's, like, 99th percentile on, like, everything. Not just, like, one thing. Everything. My dad the other day was like, "Oh, he's gonna be big. He's got a huge head." Like, he's just a big kid.

Joe Rogan 47:52 Well, all of his resources are set to growing stuff instead of thinking.

Katee Sackhoff 47:57 Oh, my God. He is-

Joe Rogan 47:57 Dudes mature so much later.

Katee Sackhoff 47:59 It's tr- uh, crazy. Crazy. Like, not even talking, just started walking. But the other day my husband was like, "Where is Granger?" And I was like, "I don't know where Granger is." And we find him, he's, like, up on the kitchen counter, like, ready to start swinging from a light. And I was like, "Catch the baby." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:12 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 48:12 Like, my s- my, our daughter would have never, like she's delicate.

Joe Rogan 48:15 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 48:15 You know, she, like, she looks at a slide five times before she goes down it. Like, she climbs to the top, she changes her mind.

Joe Rogan 48:22 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 48:22 She really thinks about it. Like, I think she's doing math problems in her head to, like, you know, like, make sure she won't get hurt. And then our son is like, "I'm going down face first." (screams) (imitates splashing)

Joe Rogan 48:31 Yeah, yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 48:32 And then he gets, stands up, he's like, "I'm okay." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:34 It's a totally different thing.

Katee Sackhoff 48:36 (laughs) It's a completely different thing.

Joe Rogan 48:37 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 48:38 Completely different. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:40 And the only way-

Katee Sackhoff 48:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:41 ... to really understand them is to live with them. You have to study them.

Katee Sackhoff 48:44 It's true.

Joe Rogan 48:45 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 48:45 It's... In their, in their natural habitat.

Joe Rogan 48:47 Study them in... (laughs) like David Attenborough. You gotta study them in their natural environment.

Katee Sackhoff 48:51 That would actually be a really funny short, is just, like, uh, a David Attenborough voice, like, following around, like, you know-

Joe Rogan 48:57 Like children-

Katee Sackhoff 48:57 Like children. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:58 ... noticing the difference between the boys and the girls. Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 49:00 In their natural habitats.

Joe Rogan 49:01 A, well, AI could probably do that for you and make a really good documentary.

Katee Sackhoff 49:04 Oh, my God. Put it into-

Joe Rogan 49:04 Real quick, and then 10 minutes.

Katee Sackhoff 49:05 Whatever it's called. Not in 10 minutes.

Joe Rogan 49:06 You don't have to dedicate a year to your life.

Katee Sackhoff 49:08 Look, it can exist. I don't need to participate in this-

Joe Rogan 49:11 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 49:11 ... stripping away of my, my livelihood.

Joe Rogan 49:14 Listen, I understand.

Katee Sackhoff 49:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:15 I mean, I'm certain there's gonna be AI comedians and podcasters, and there's probably gonna be AI UFC commentators who do a better job than me.

Katee Sackhoff 49:22 But I think there... I just-

Joe Rogan 49:23 It is what it is.

Katee Sackhoff 49:24 I think they're...... is, like, an AI podcast creator right now that's, like, pumping out podcasts.

Joe Rogan 49:30 Well, I know that there's a podcast of me and Steve Jobs, and I never met Steve Jobs.

Katee Sackhoff 49:35 Oh, yeah?

Joe Rogan 49:36 There's a whole podcast-

Katee Sackhoff 49:37 Is there really?

Joe Rogan 49:37 ... of me having a conversation with Steve Jobs.

Katee Sackhoff 49:39 Well, that's just deepfake, right?

Joe Rogan 49:41 Yep.

Katee Sackhoff 49:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:41 But, but it's AI. AI created the conversation.

Katee Sackhoff 49:45 So, I think the one that I'm talking about... So, the producer of my show is telling me that there's an AI where you can put in, like, "I'm a potato farmer in Idaho who's dealing with, uh-"

Joe Rogan 49:56 Oh, okay.

Katee Sackhoff 49:56 "... a problem with a crop in 2025, and I'm wondering about this." It'll put together a podcast for you specifically for that-

Joe Rogan 50:06 Hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 50:07 ... and give you an hour-long podcast talking to you about things, like, for your-

Joe Rogan 50:12 Potato farm.

Katee Sackhoff 50:12 ... potatoes. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:13 Yeah. Well, that's actually positive. The, the negative thing is you're gonna have, like, fake humans with, like, fake lived experiences that are, like, that resonate with you, that are impactful. That's what's scary.

Katee Sackhoff 50:26 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:27 You know, in the... We, we had these conversations with a, a few friends of mine the other day. Um, um, you, you know the show Triggernometry?

Katee Sackhoff 50:36 No.

Joe Rogan 50:36 Okay, it's a very popular podcast. But my friend Francis and Constantin, they're the hosts of it, and my friend Meghan Murphy was there and a bunch of comedians were there, and I was playing 'em my favorite new song, which is an AI song. And I'm like, "Tell me-"

Katee Sackhoff 50:50 Stop it.

Joe Rogan 50:50 "Tell me how good this..." It's a co-... It's a cover of 50 Cent's song What Up Gangsta.

Katee Sackhoff 50:55 All right, I'm gonna need to hear this song.

Joe Rogan 50:57 Okay. You need to hear it.

Katee Sackhoff 50:57 So I can participate in this.

Joe Rogan 50:58 We'll, we'll, we'll play it. We'll play it right here.

Katee Sackhoff 51:00 Okay. (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 51:00 You know-

Narrator 51:00 Cut it out?

Joe Rogan 51:00 You know the original so-... Yeah, we'll cut it out. We know the original song, right?

Katee Sackhoff 51:04 Which song?

Joe Rogan 51:05 50 Cent, What Up Gangsta?

Katee Sackhoff 51:06 Yes.

Joe Rogan 51:06 Okay. Wait for this. I hate to say this 'cause I love 50 Cent. This is better than the original. It's a 1950s soul cover of What Up Gangsta.

Katee Sackhoff 51:18 Okay, now here's my question.

Joe Rogan 51:20 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 51:20 If you'd gone to 50 Cent and said, "Can you get together with a producer and create this for me?" Do you think he could've done it?

Joe Rogan 51:31 Yes.

Katee Sackhoff 51:31 Okay.

Joe Rogan 51:32 Yes.

Katee Sackhoff 51:32 But we never gave him the chance to do it.

Joe Rogan 51:34 Well-

Katee Sackhoff 51:34 So we're sort of robbing him.

Joe Rogan 51:36 ... he had 30 years. (laughs) He could have done it at any point in time. This is so good. I know what you're saying.

Katee Sackhoff 51:43 Okay.

Joe Rogan 51:44 But this, this is my point. My point is-

Katee Sackhoff 51:46 Okay.

Joe Rogan 51:47 ... that it tricks me, and I know the trick. Like, I know it's a trick.

Katee Sackhoff 51:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:51 And I don't care. I don't care. It's that good. And no one else cared in the green room. Everybody was like, "Ooh!" All right, hit it, hit her with it, Jamey.

Narrator 51:59 I got this.

Katee Sackhoff 52:00 Come on.

Narrator 52:00 Really good, good version.

Joe Rogan 52:01 Come on.

Narrator 52:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:02 That's good. That's good.

Narrator 52:03 Crazy. (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 52:04 You guys-

Joe Rogan 52:04 Zombie. They did the best version of Zombie ever.

Katee Sackhoff 52:07 Like, when-

Narrator 52:07 I got a, a different version with a girl singing it.

Katee Sackhoff 52:09 You guys... Like a-

Joe Rogan 52:09 Oh, my goodness.

Narrator 52:10 Like a barbershop quartet singing it.

Katee Sackhoff 52:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:11 Oh, my goodness.

Katee Sackhoff 52:12 I feel-

Narrator 52:12 And, and Jamey just does this all night long, yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 52:15 ... like I just did... (laughs)

Narrator 52:15 I can just play him and, like, take walks, just know which ones are good.

Joe Rogan 52:18 (laughs) He sent me, like, 20 of them. (laughs)

Narrator 52:22 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 52:22 (laughs) I feel like, I feel like I just participated in, like, the death of my industry.

Joe Rogan 52:27 I know. Listen.

Katee Sackhoff 52:28 But-

Joe Rogan 52:28 I'm on the s- I'm on the same page.

Katee Sackhoff 52:30 ... I, I would so much rather see that in person, though.

Joe Rogan 52:37 Sure.

Katee Sackhoff 52:37 Like, I would love to be at a show because that, those songs were phenomenal.

Joe Rogan 52:41 Yes.

Katee Sackhoff 52:41 Like, I cannot, I cannot argue with that. That was great. I w- I will probably ask you to send me that version of Zombie. Um-

Joe Rogan 52:47 Th- that Shifty Brent guy, they have him listed on Spotify. I- I'm probably blowing up their spot. But it's not a human, but they have it listed as a artist so that they could upload it. 'Cause I don't think you're allowed to just upload AI versions of stuff, so they just pretend it's a guy. But it's a guy, as you said. Like, one of the things we were talking about. I'm like, I don't think anybody can keep that flow. That flow where he's not breathing?

Katee Sackhoff 53:10 He's not breathing.

Joe Rogan 53:11 How is-

Katee Sackhoff 53:11 Unless they're taking the, unless they're taking the breaths out, but it's too-

Joe Rogan 53:14 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 53:15 ... and then speed. I, I don't know. I'm not a musician-

Joe Rogan 53:17 That speed.

Katee Sackhoff 53:17 ... so I have no idea.

Joe Rogan 53:17 I don't know either. Look, there's guys like Eminem that achieved incredible flow without AI-

Katee Sackhoff 53:22 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 53:23 ... that have, like... You're like, "How did he do that?" But that's just practice, repetition-

Katee Sackhoff 53:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:27 ... vocal endurance, whatever.

Katee Sackhoff 53:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:29 I mean, he just knows how to do it. But this fucking AI guy is... It's, like, all the best things we love about great songs-

Katee Sackhoff 53:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:37 ... just condensed. And, and, and they know what you love.

Katee Sackhoff 53:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:41 That's the fucked-up thing. It's like there's so many... Like, let's look at all the hits. Papa Was a Rolling Stone. Look at, let's look at all the hits. Let's look at Zombie. Let's look at this.

Katee Sackhoff 53:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:50 And then mush 'em all together and figure out, what do th- what do these notes that make people excited? What do the feeling-

Katee Sackhoff 53:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:57 What are the words that make people, like, real... Like, "Oh, yeah." You know? What are those feelings?

Katee Sackhoff 54:02 So, okay. So, and I, I hear all of that. I'm... It makes me... I'm literally cringing inside. I'm, like, dying. But, like, so what do artists do? Like, what do, what do musicians do?

Joe Rogan 54:11 What has everybody ever done when things change? You figure it out and adapt.

Katee Sackhoff 54:15 Adjust.

Joe Rogan 54:16 Yeah, there's... Humans are always going to need humans.

Katee Sackhoff 54:19 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 54:19 We love each other. You know, as much as we hate each other, we love each other more. Because most interactions that people have with other people are not negative. It's just the negative ones are so scary that we concentrate on them more. But humans love humans, and the more you need each other, the more you're gonna need human interaction, human cooperation. Art is going to be so much more valuable coming from a human, live performances.

Katee Sackhoff 54:43 But are we going-

Joe Rogan 54:44 We're just gonna have to adapt.

Katee Sackhoff 54:45 ... are we going to know? Like, that's, that's the thing that I think is a slippery slope and that scares me the most, is that, like, are we going to know if it was created by AI? Can a person who's disingenuous come and create a bunch of AI art, have an art show, and, you know, say, "I created this art." Like...

Joe Rogan 55:06 This is what I really think. When comets hit planets, um, usually you get small ones first. You get things in the sky, meteor showers.

Katee Sackhoff 55:16 Are you gonna give me another thing to be scared of?

Joe Rogan 55:18 No, I'm just-

Katee Sackhoff 55:19 Okay, good.

Joe Rogan 55:19 ... telling you that this is a little one.... that's what this is. Movies and TV shows that are made entirely with AI, songs that are made entirely with AI. This is just a small thing.

Katee Sackhoff 55:30 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:30 The big one that's coming is a complete revamping of communication and culture.

Katee Sackhoff 55:35 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:36 It's human beings communicating telepathically through devices connected to the internet.

Katee Sackhoff 55:43 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:43 Everyone all on one weird-

Katee Sackhoff 55:45 You mean, like, the implant things?

Joe Rogan 55:46 ... mind meld page. It's probably not gonna be an implant. It's probably gonna be something wearable.

Katee Sackhoff 55:50 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:51 You know, I think the implant thing is kinda sketchy and-

Katee Sackhoff 55:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:53 ... probably really good for people that have paralysis. We had the guy was the first Neuralink patient on.

Katee Sackhoff 55:59 Okay.

Joe Rogan 55:59 It's amazing. He was talking to me about how he could play video games now. And just, it's so much better. His li- his quality of life has improved so much. And eventually, they're gonna get to the point where they can reconnect spinal tissue, where people can move again, and it's amazing.

Katee Sackhoff 56:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:12 It's great. But I don't think they're gonna need that to get this achievement of a, of a mind meld. They, they also, they're already wearing these wearable things that Google has devised. Show that video, Jamey, of those people where they're communicating telepathically. You know what I'm talking about, right? So they're already doing this with wearables.

Katee Sackhoff 56:32 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:32 And this is, like, kind of crude right now, but it's just, it's sort of sentences. They're, they're reading each other, and they're communicating.

Katee Sackhoff 56:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:38 But they're doing it all non-verbally through tech- technology.

Katee Sackhoff 56:43 So I guess what, what my question about that is, like, if, if that exists, like, are people going to be stagnant sitting in their houses, existing outside of their houses in their AI systems, so they're, they're, they're not moving around? Or are we going to be able to wear these while we're out and still participating in the world?

Joe Rogan 57:03 That's a good question.

Katee Sackhoff 57:04 That is my fear, like, that people stop actually participating with their life-

Joe Rogan 57:09 Oh, that's a good fear.

Katee Sackhoff 57:09 ... 'cause they think they're living-

Joe Rogan 57:11 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 57:12 ... uh, b- with their wearable.

Joe Rogan 57:13 Let's talk about that. Well, let's watch this. Put, put this-

Narrator 57:16 Could be a noisy environment or a quiet office. Having a direct conversation is possible without saying a word. The signals AlterEgo detects aren't affected by environmental noise. So even if you're walking past a wind tunnel or a construction zone, what you want to say will always get across. It's like having infinite noise cancellation.

57:35 If you're traveling, your silent speech can be converted into any language. So Scott, how's my Mandarin?

57:47 (Relief)

58:00 (Chinese)

Joe Rogan 58:02 I mean, what the fuck?

Narrator 58:08 For all of human ex-

Joe Rogan 58:09 What the fuck?

Katee Sackhoff 58:10 So-

Joe Rogan 58:10 It's, it's translating.

Katee Sackhoff 58:11 But then is it, is it, is it actually speaking out loud to them? Like, they're hearing the translation out loud?

Narrator 58:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:17 Yes.

Narrator 58:17 Yeah, they connect it to the speaker for the-

Katee Sackhoff 58:17 Okay. So it's not like it's then, like, going into their brain?

Joe Rogan 58:20 Yeah. His thoughts are being converted to words, which is being converted to an audio file, which makes it to the other person in a different language.

Katee Sackhoff 58:30 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 58:31 Yeah. This is what I'm saying. And I'm telling you-

Katee Sackhoff 58:33 I guess, I guess the question-

Joe Rogan 58:33 ... this is one of the little rocks. This is one of the itty-bitty rocks that's just broken through the atmosphere and slammed into a cornfield.

Katee Sackhoff 58:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess my question is why we need it.

Joe Rogan 58:44 (laughs) That's funny. Why do you need a cell phone? Why do you need a TV? Why do you need an airplane? Why do you need a boat? Why do you need anything that's technology?

Katee Sackhoff 58:52 Well, I could tell you I don't need a cell phone.

Joe Rogan 58:54 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 58:55 I do need a plane.

Joe Rogan 58:55 But you do if your hot husband wants to call you.

Katee Sackhoff 58:58 Yeah, I mean, but I don't need a, I don't need an iPhone.

Joe Rogan 59:01 Right, but you need a cell phone.

Katee Sackhoff 59:02 'Cause I can use my own imagination. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 59:04 Oh.

Katee Sackhoff 59:04 Like, I think that that's, that's the thing. That's the, that's my fear, is that, like, we're becoming lazy as, as, uh, as a people.

Joe Rogan 59:12 Oh, most certainly we are.

Katee Sackhoff 59:13 And, and are...

Joe Rogan 59:14 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 59:14 You know, like, someone, uh, this, someone the other day. So, my husband's a writer, and someone was saying that, um, there's an AI where you don't have to make up a story for your children anymore. Like, you know, I have this, uh, Princess Poopypants or whatever. I don't even remember what it was. But my daughter loved this story that I was telling her. It was, uh, it was fucking terrible.

Joe Rogan 59:35 (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 59:35 But she loves this princess, (laughs) and it is the worst. Like, it is not good. But I came up with it, and she and I laughed together, and then her reactions helped me to turn the story a different direction. But, like, I've created this, like, character, right? So, you can now go into your AI phone or whatever and say, uh, "Create a nighttime story for Johnny about his day, but pretend like he's an astronaut on Mars and he's working with diggers." And it writes a story for you in five seconds to read to your son. Now, yeah, okay, is that, is that cool? Absolutely. Did your son enjoy it? Sure. But you robbed yourself of the imagination and the work that it would have taken to come up with a s- a story for your son. And then you also robbed yourself of that experience with your son creating the story together because his reactions would have changed the story and the way that you were creating it-

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 Hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 1:00:27 ... as it was going because he's your audience, right? That's sad to me, like, that, that people are missing out on that. Yeah, cool, you just wri- you might as well just read your kid a story 'cause you really didn't write him a story. That's not... And so I don't know. That's the thing that, that I, I hope as a society, 'cause you're right, it is coming, and it's here, and it's not slowing down. And, but I hope that we can still steal away those moments where we don't want to use it, because Johnny's little dad may have missed his second calling of being a children's story author because he never pushed himself to have to do it. And that could have been really cool. Um, I don't know. I just, that's... I'm not, I'm not completely against AI.

Joe Rogan 1:01:11 (smacks lips) I know what you're saying-

Katee Sackhoff 1:01:12 But I, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 ... and you're always gonna have people that give up.

Katee Sackhoff 1:01:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 That's just how life is. You're always gonna have people that don't find another way.

Katee Sackhoff 1:01:22 It's true.

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 You can't save those folks.

Katee Sackhoff 1:01:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 And I don't even want to.

Katee Sackhoff 1:01:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 Because I think that's part of the whole process of culture. I think we have to figure it out by watching people fail. And unfortunately, some of us have to, have to fail. And it doesn't mean you fail forever.... if that guy figures out that he's on the wrong path and he's got some self-assessment ability, and he looks back and goes, "Okay, what did I do wrong?"

Katee Sackhoff 1:01:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:42 "Why am I, why am I being such a bitch?"

Katee Sackhoff 1:01:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:44 "Why don't I just get my life together? Like, what the fuck is wrong with me? Why am I drinking? Why am I smoking?"

Katee Sackhoff 1:01:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:48 "Why am I, why am I killing my health? Why am I, you know, p- depress- why don't I just go for a run?"

Katee Sackhoff 1:01:53 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 "Let's see how that goes. When was... I'm gonna sign up for a yoga class. How about that?"

Katee Sackhoff 1:01:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 "I'll just try that for a while. I'll do something different. I will, I'll start taking vitamins." Fucking do something. Figure out something else that you like to do. Are you alive?

Katee Sackhoff 1:02:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 Are you breathing? Then life isn't over. Stop being a bitch. You could have been born during the time of the Revolutionary War, and you just got shot with a musket and you're bleeding out on a field.

Katee Sackhoff 1:02:14 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 No, you're in Santa Barbara, and, you know, you, you don't like that AI just took your job. Find a new job, bitch. Figure it out.

Katee Sackhoff 1:02:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:22 Like, that's what we all have to do in this life. There's a lot of different people doing a lot of different things.

Katee Sackhoff 1:02:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 And, you know, find out what it is that you can do.

Katee Sackhoff 1:02:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:30 Don't give up, and don't... Like, AI comes along, and you just give up on life, and you could have been amazing at something. Really?

Katee Sackhoff 1:02:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 I doubt it, because-

Katee Sackhoff 1:02:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:38 ... any, almost anybody that really is amazing at something has a desire to figure out how to get that through.

Katee Sackhoff 1:02:43 I don't disagree with that, but there also are safeguards in place that, like... So, my dad's entire family, we grew up in a small town, um, on the Columbia River, um, in Oregon, and his entire family were longshoremen. Well, that industry was, was coming to an end, and the Longshoremen's Union actually paid to have those guys trained in different industry. So-

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 Well, that's great.

Katee Sackhoff 1:03:05 That's great.

Joe Rogan 1:03:05 That's one of the great things about a union.

Katee Sackhoff 1:03:07 That's great, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:08 That they can set you up like that and, and recognize what's happening.

Katee Sackhoff 1:03:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:12 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 1:03:12 Yeah. So I, you know, I would, I would love for there to be some protections for when people inevitably do start losing their jobs, that there are avenues for them to learn a new trade.

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 I think that would be a, a great w- n- new addition to the way we approach it, if they tried-

Katee Sackhoff 1:03:31 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 ... to figure out ways to transition people healthy, healthily into other occupations, because there's certain jobs, like coders, for example. Like, the, my friends that are involved in technology, like, do not go to school to code.

Katee Sackhoff 1:03:45 No.

Joe Rogan 1:03:45 Like, code for fun, if you like coding for fun.

Katee Sackhoff 1:03:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:47 'Cause a lot of the m- the super nerds-

Katee Sackhoff 1:03:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:49 ... they code. Those fucking dorks. They code for fun. They sit in front of a screen. (laughs)

Katee Sackhoff 1:03:52 Don't make fun of my fan base. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:53 They love them.

Katee Sackhoff 1:03:54 Come on, Joe.

Joe Rogan 1:03:55 Listen, I love those guys.

Katee Sackhoff 1:03:56 But, but also, three years ago, my dad was like, "Your kids should go into coding."

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 No, it amazes-

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:02 That's how quickly that changed though.

Joe Rogan 1:04:03 Yeah, it's nuts.

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:03 You know what I mean? And that could just be my dad's generation not seeing it, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:04:07 No, it-

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:07 ... happening as quickly, but it happened really quickly.

Joe Rogan 1:04:08 No, they were seeing what was happening was all these guys, these tech guys, wound up being the richest people on the planet.

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 So, they were seeing it.

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 But it just only, uh, it's just like a brief window of opportunity to become-

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 ... a tech oligarch.

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:21 And that shit's gonna slam shut.

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:23 It is, and now-

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 And the real fear is like, who's gonna be in control of AI? You know?

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:27 That's also...

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 You've got these people like Sam Altman. You've got Elon. You've got all these, like, super rich people that are going to be in control of the digital god. It's a little, that's a little disconcerting as it is.

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:39 It is a little scary that-

Joe Rogan 1:04:40 Real scary.

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:40 ... the few control the masses.

Joe Rogan 1:04:42 It's so much power and money in just a-

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:44 It's a lot of power.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 ... handful of people.

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:46 It's a lot of power, and you just, I mean, you gotta hope that the people that are in power have, uh, you know ...

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 Good sensibilities? They're, they're kind?

Katee Sackhoff 1:04:55 A heart?

Joe Rogan 1:04:56 That they're nice? Yeah, that they realize like, "Okay, I've got X amount of billions of dollars, so this is obviously not why, what life's all about. What is life? What can I do-"

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:04 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 "... that makes life meaningful? I could actually probably help people, like, legitimately help people."

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:11 That would be amazing if people with a lot of money-

Joe Rogan 1:05:13 Yeah.

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:13 ... wanted to help people and, and, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:05:15 Yes, if someone-

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:15 ... pay their share of taxes and-

Joe Rogan 1:05:17 Well-

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:18 ... and not take advantage of the situation.

Joe Rogan 1:05:19 Here's the problem with that.

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:20 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:05:21 I am all for wealthy people paying their share.

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:24 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:24 I am not for the government deciding what to do with that money when I've seen what you've done with the money in the past. You guys are irresponsible. You never make audits. You've got insider trading running-

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 ... amok amongst people in Congress, and you're not-

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:38 ... doing nothing about it.

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:40 And then you want more money, and you say that's gonna fix it? No, it's the way you handle the money that fucking sucks.

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:45 It's not that I wouldn't want to g- I would be happy to pay more in taxes and live in a place that's just managed perfectly.

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:53 I'd be like, "God, it's so great living here in America. Everything's done so well."

Katee Sackhoff 1:05:57 No.

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 "It's so beautiful." It's like, everything's well thought out. Our education system is great. Nobody is stuck in a bad neighborhood anymore. All the school systems are fucking (blowing kiss) top of the food chain. It's a difficult job to acquire. It's given a lot of respect, and everybody's doing great. Then I'd be happy.

Katee Sackhoff 1:06:14 Yeah. No, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 But it's like, do, do you see some of the money that they've uncovered that was being spent on nonsense? And then you see what happens with NGOs and nonprofits, and they're funneling billions to these things, and then it's going to countries, and it's helping overthrow governments. Like-

Katee Sackhoff 1:06:29 Okay, right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 ... fucking slow down.

Katee Sackhoff 1:06:31 But we also have to acknowledge that in the cuts, that there were things that didn't need to be cut. So, we can go, and we can look at Elon. So, you brought up Elon Musk. Let's talk about when he tweeted about an over, uh, i- uh, stuffed bill in 2025, in the middle of 2025. He was talking about how this bill was just like bloated.

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 1:06:52 So, he took a bunch of shit off of it. One of the things that fell on that was in 2012, there was a, there was a, a, a piece of legislation called the Give Kids a Chance Act. What it did was it motivated and incentivized in- uh, uh, uh, drug companies to create drugs for pediatrics, because right now, pediatrics are completely underfunded. We learned all of this when our daughter got sick.

Joe Rogan 1:07:18 Hmm.

Katee Sackhoff 1:07:19 The National Cancer Institute, 4% of its budget goes to pediatrics, 4%. So, it's already underfunded, and then in, in... when Elon, in 2025, tweeted about this, they took off all of the stuff at the end of the bill, 900 pages.But what was on it was the Give Kids a Chance Act. Now, this bill is a voucher program. So, let's say that Tom, in his basement, wants to create a drug, a new drug for neuroblastoma that will save our daughter's life.

Joe Rogan 1:07:49 Right.

Katee Sackhoff 1:07:50 He's got no money, but he, he sees the cure. So, he can go to the FDA, and he can say, "I got a cure for neuroblastoma." And they say, "Great. We're gonna fast-track you in the FDA, but we're also gonna give you a voucher. You can sell that voucher." Because Tom only got... He only has 10 cents. He can't create this drug. But with that voucher, he can take that voucher and he can sell it to anyone for any amount of money. And what that voucher is, is a front-of-the-line pass. So, he can go sell it to some drug company that has a fat-loss drug, or a, a drug for heart medications, anything. He can sell it to them and they get to buy it for, what, $50 million. So now, Tom has $50 million for his pediatric drug that's gonna save children's lives, and this drug company has a voucher that takes them to the front of the line. Now, do we wish, wish that these drug companies were altruistic and they were just like creating drugs for peds? Of course, but they're not. They're not. It's not a free market. So, so what happens is they've now got their voucher. Tom has his money to create his drug. And since 2012, the Give Kids a Chance Act has created over 60 drugs for life-threatening illnesses for, for children. 60 drugs. And because of Elon's tweet, that legislation, because it has to be voted on every four years, was taken off the end of the bill. It no longer exists. So that, that legislation is... it's, it's not an ex- it's not in existence anymore. That is terrible, because now there's no incentives for the drug companies to create drugs for children, and children are already underfunded. They get so little.

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 T-

Katee Sackhoff 1:09:25 And so, it has to be on the bill at the end of the year. So, what I want is for people like... people just to see the error of their ways. Yes, was there waste? Of course. But now you have this bipartisan-supported piece of legislation that has to be on the end-of-year bill or it will not get on again, and then it starts all over again. It has to be on the end-of-year bill. So, things like that, yes. Can we get rid of the waste? Absolutely. But when you see a mistake, and you see that you made a mistake, let's fix it. Put it back on.

Joe Rogan 1:09:55 Yeah. The-

Katee Sackhoff 1:09:56 We've gotta-

Joe Rogan 1:09:56 You know what you're saying?

Katee Sackhoff 1:09:57 ... help chil- children.

Joe Rogan 1:09:58 It's literally throwing out the baby with the bath water. That's literally it.

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:01 Well, but that's what we do in this country.

Joe Rogan 1:10:03 But is that a... Unfortunately, these bills are crazy. And one of the things about bills is they... like, you'll... it'll have a name, and then what's in the bill deals with multiple subjects-

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:14 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:10:14 ...'cause mult- bunch of different things get thrown into the bill.

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:18 All the time.

Joe Rogan 1:10:18 All the time.

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:18 There's so much-

Joe Rogan 1:10:19 Bloated.

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:19 ... chucked on the end-

Joe Rogan 1:10:20 Almost-

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:20 ... which is what Elon was talking about.

Joe Rogan 1:10:21 Right, they all do that. So, was this connected to something else?

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:26 No. It was-

Joe Rogan 1:10:27 It was-

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:27 It was just-

Joe Rogan 1:10:28 ... it was by itself?

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:28 ... part of it. It was just part of it that was on there, that was thrown-

Joe Rogan 1:10:31 So there was a part-

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:31 ... in there at the end.

Joe Rogan 1:10:32 ... that was chopped off?

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:34 From what I understand, and granted, I... you need to talk to someone much more informed than I am about this, but there were about hundreds of pages that were just cut off the end.

Joe Rogan 1:10:44 So, do you think they're just not reviewing what's being cut off? They're just saying-

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:47 "Look, we have to make cuts."

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:49 I think that-

Joe Rogan 1:10:49 "Just cut it all off."

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:49 ... yes, that they just needed to cut a bunch off to avoid inspection and just get the bill passed. And that's what they did.

Joe Rogan 1:10:56 Ugh.

Katee Sackhoff 1:10:56 And so... and the Give Kids a Chance Act is one of the... in the top 10 of all time most bipartisan-supported pieces of legislation. And 2% of bills actually pass. So, it's got to... it literally has to be on the end-of-the-year bill. And it, it, it surprises me that because there is waste, I know there's waste, we all know there's waste, but that we say that children are so fucking important and they get 4% of the National Cancer Institute's money. 4%.

Joe Rogan 1:11:30 I just feel like if people knew about that, that couldn't have happened. We... if I... we had known about that in advance, we could have made a big deal about that. But-

Katee Sackhoff 1:11:36 Well, we've got two months.

Joe Rogan 1:11:38 But here-

Katee Sackhoff 1:11:38 We've got-

Joe Rogan 1:11:38 But here's the thing, it's like-

Katee Sackhoff 1:11:38 ... two months to get it on there now.

Joe Rogan 1:11:40 Well, let's try to get it on there now, but here's the thing. Like, I'd never heard about this-

Katee Sackhoff 1:11:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:11:45 ... before you talked about it. And this is the problem with-

Katee Sackhoff 1:11:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:49 I think this is part of the pro-... I don't, I don't think they should be allowed to make bills that way. I think each bill, the, the, the things that are in the bills are so consequential. It just doesn't make any sense to me that they shouldn't be treated as individual arguments, every single one of them. Every-

Katee Sackhoff 1:12:05 Agree.

Joe Rogan 1:12:05 Like, if you have a bill and you have 500... I mean, w- what... let's ask Perplexity, our sponsor, "What, what is the average amount of different subjects that are covered in