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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan Experience #2404 - Elon Musk

Elon Musk is a business magnate, designer, and engineer known for his work in electric vehicles, private spaceflight, and artificial intelligence. His portfolio of companies includes Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink, X, and several others. https://x.com/elonmusk

Elon MuskguestJoe Roganhost
Oct 31, 20253h 18mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:31

    Warm-up banter: Bezos, “Giga Chad,” and extreme physiques

    1. EM

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. NA

      The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music plays)

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

    4. EM

      (instrumental music) Exactly. Um-

    5. JR

      Just every morning.

    6. EM

      ... I wonder what Jeff Bezos is doing?

    7. NA

      (laughs)

    8. JR

      He's doing some, definitely doing some testosterone.

    9. EM

      Yeah, right. (laughs)

    10. NA

      (laughs)

    11. JR

      He looks jacked. He looks jacked, right?

    12. EM

      Yeah. But he's a, like-

    13. JR

      Quick.

    14. EM

      ... qu- quick.

    15. JR

      Quick. (laughs)

    16. EM

      Like, well, I mean- (laughs)

    17. JR

      Yeah. Yeah, he got jacked quick.

    18. EM

      At age, like, 50-

    19. JR

      Yeah. (laughs)

    20. EM

      At 50, at age 59, in less than a year, he, he went from pencil neck geek to, uh, looking like a mini- like, like the Rock.

    21. JR

      Yeah, like a l- little miniature alpha fella.

    22. EM

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. EM

      Like, like, his neck got bigger than his head.

    25. JR

      Yeah, he got big quick.

    26. EM

      And then, and then, but then, like, his earlier pictures, his neck's, like, a noodle.

    27. JR

      I support this activity.

    28. EM

      (laughs)

    29. JR

      I would like to see him going in this direction.

    30. EM

      Which is fine, and his voice dropped, like, two octaves.

  2. 2:31 – 4:31

    Mutant-strong humans and real-life giants

    1. EM

      Well, th- there's that, that, that Icelandic dude who's Thor.

    2. JR

      Oh, yeah, the guy who jumps into the frozen lakes and shit? Yeah.

    3. EM

      Well, the, the guy who played the mountain. Um...

    4. JR

      Oh, that guy.

    5. EM

      That is-

    6. JR

      Yeah. Oh, yeah.

    7. EM

      ... that is like a, that, that is like a, a mutant strong human.

    8. JR

      Yes.

    9. EM

      Like-

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. EM

      ... like, uh, he would be in, like, the X-Men or something, you know?

    12. JR

      We were hanging out-

    13. EM

      I mean, he's, he's just, like, not like, uh... And, and, (laughs) and, and then, and there's that, you know that, have you seen that meme, tent and tent bag?

    14. JR

      No.

    15. EM

      Um, you know how, like, it's, like, it's really hard to get the tent, (laughs) tent in the tent?

    16. JR

      Oh, right, right.

    17. EM

      (laughs)

    18. JR

      (laughs)

    19. EM

      (laughs)

    20. JR

      That's true.

    21. EM

      And then there's a picture of, of him and his girlfriend with a-

    22. JR

      Oh, right, tent bag. That's hilarious.

    23. EM

      (laughs) Yeah.

    24. JR

      Yeah, that's his wife.

    25. EM

      I don't know how it gets in there, you know? It's like it seems too small, but...

    26. JR

      I've met Brian Shaw.

    27. EM

      (laughs)

    28. JR

      Brian Shaw is, like-

    29. EM

      (laughs)

    30. JR

      ... the world's most powerful man.

  3. 4:31 – 8:32

    Sam Altman, Tucker Carlson, and the “whistleblower” death controversy

    1. JR

      So we were talking about, um, this interview with Sam Altman and Tucker, and I was like, "We should probably just talk about this on the air."

    2. EM

      (laughs)

    3. JR

      'Cause it is one of the craziest interviews I think I've ever seen in my life.

    4. EM

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      Where Tucker starts bringing up this guy who was-

    6. EM

      Oh, yeah, whistleblower or whatever.

    7. JR

      ... he looked like a whistleblower-

    8. EM

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      ... who, you know, committed suicide, but doesn't look like it, and-

    10. EM

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      ... and he's talking to Sam Altman about this. And Sam Altman was like, "Are you accusing me?" He's like, "No, no, no. I'm not. I'm just saying, I, I think someone killed him." (laughs)

    12. EM

      Yeah. And, like, and it should be investigated.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. EM

      Um, not just drop the case.

    15. JR

      Well, it seems like-

    16. EM

      That they just dropped the case, yeah, yeah.

    17. JR

      Yeah, it seems like he's-

    18. EM

      But his, his parents think he was murdered.

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. EM

      Um, the wires to his security camera were cut. Um...

    21. JR

      Blood in two rooms.

    22. EM

      Blood in two rooms. Someone else's wig was in the room and-

    23. JR

      Someone else's wig.

    24. EM

      Wig.

    25. JR

      Wig.

    26. EM

      Yes.

    27. JR

      Yeah, not normal.

    28. EM

      Not his wig. Um-

    29. JR

      Not normal to have a wig laying around.

    30. EM

      Yes. Um, and, um, and he ordered DoorDash, uh, right before allegedly committing suicide.

  4. 8:32 – 10:20

    Epstein skepticism and media/downplaying culture

    1. EM

      Yeah. They should... He should have asked if, uh, Epstein killed himself.

    2. JR

      Dan. (laughs)

    3. EM

      (laughs)

    4. JR

      Yeah. That's the- the Cash Patel thing-

    5. EM

      W- wait, where's the camera? Where is it?

    6. JR

      ... with Cash Patel and Dan Bongino-

    7. EM

      Where's the camera?

    8. JR

      ... and they were try to convince everybody of that. Like, okay.

    9. EM

      Uh, the guards weren't there and the cameras stopped working and, um, you know.

    10. JR

      The guards were asleep. The cameras weren't working. He had a- a giant steroided-up bodybuilder guy that he was sharing a cell with that was a murderer, who was a bad cop. Like, all of it's kind of nuts.

    11. EM

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      All of it's kind of nuts. Like, that he would just kill himself rather than reveal all of his billionaire friends.

    13. EM

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      And then...

    15. NA

      Did you see Tim Dillon talking to Chris Cuomo about this? 'Cause he, like-

    16. JR

      I did.

    17. NA

      He, like... Yeah, he was downplaying it.

    18. JR

      Chris Cuomo just looked so stupid. (laughs)

    19. NA

      Tim just listed off all the-

    20. JR

      Tim just-

    21. EM

      Oh, man.

    22. JR

      And he's like, "I agree. It is strange." Like, of course, it's strange, Chris. Jesus Christ. You can't just go with the tide. You gotta think things through. And if you think that one through, you're like, "I don't think he killed himself." Nobody does. You don't have to work for an intelligence agency to think he killed himself.

    23. EM

      (laughs) It does- it does seem unlikely.

    24. JR

      It seems highly unlikely.

    25. EM

      (laughs) It seems highly unlikely.

    26. JR

      Highly, highly unlikely.

    27. EM

      Highly unlikely.

    28. JR

      All roads point to murder.

    29. EM

      Yes.

    30. JR

      Point to they had to get rid of him, because he knew too much. Whatever the fuck he was doing-

  5. 10:20 – 13:38

    Reality ‘accelerating,’ simulation talk, and an interstellar object (3I Atlas)

    1. EM

      You know, as I was say- as I was saying just before coming into the studio with, you know... And like every day, there's some crazy wild new thing that's happening.

    2. JR

      Yes.

    3. EM

      It's l- it- it feels like reality is accelerating.

    4. JR

      Y- it's every day, and, uh, uh, every day, it's like more and more ridiculous-

    5. EM

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      ... to the point where the simulation is more and more undeniable.

    7. EM

      Yeah, yeah. It really feels like a simulation. You know, it's like, come on, what are the odds that this could be the case? You know? Yeah.

    8. JR

      Are you paying attention at all to 3i Atlas? Are you watching that?

    9. EM

      Oh, what, the com- the comet?

    10. JR

      Yeah, whatever it is.

    11. EM

      Um, yeah, yeah. I mean... I mean, one thing I can say is, like, look, I... i- if I s- was aware of any evidence of aliens, um, you- Joe, you have my word, I will come on your show and I will reveal it on the show.

    12. JR

      Okay.

    13. EM

      Yeah. Um-

    14. JR

      That's a good deal.

    15. EM

      Yeah, it's a pretty good deal.

    16. JR

      I believe you.

    17. EM

      Yeah, yeah.

    18. JR

      Thank you. Appreciate that.

    19. EM

      I- I'll- I'll stick to... I- I keep my, you know, I keep my promises. So... um-

    20. JR

      (laughs) All right.

    21. EM

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      I'll hold you to that.

    23. EM

      Uh, yeah.

    24. JR

      Yeah. I don't-

    25. EM

      And, and, uh, I'm never committing suicide, to be clear. (laughs)

    26. JR

      (laughs) I don't think you would either.

    27. EM

      Also, on camera, guys, I am never (laughs) committing suicide ever.

    28. JR

      If someone says you committed suicide-

    29. EM

      (laughs)

    30. JR

      ... I will fight tooth and nail.

  6. 13:38 – 15:30

    Impact risks and extinction events: what space rocks can do

    1. JR

      And fucking huge. The size of Manhattan and all nickel? That's kind of nuts.

    2. EM

      Yeah. That's a heavy spaceship.

    3. JR

      That's a real problem if it hits.

    4. EM

      Uh, yes. No, no, it would, like, obliterate a continent type of thing.

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. EM

      Um, maybe, maybe worse.

    7. JR

      Well, yeah, probably kill most of human life.

    8. EM

      Um...

    9. JR

      If not all of us.

    10. EM

      I don't know. It depends on what the, the total mass is, but, um, there's... I mean, the thing is that like in the fossil record, there are, um, you know, there's like arguably f- arguably five major extinction events, um, like the biggest one of which is the Permian extinction, uh, where, um, almost all life was eliminated. That, that actually occurred over several million, several million years. Um, the- there's the Jurassic. I think Jurassic is... I think that one's pretty definitively an asteroid. Um, and, um... But there's, but there's been five major extin- extinction events. But, um, but what they don't count are really the ones that merely take out a continent. So they're...

    11. JR

      (laughs) Merely.

    12. EM

      Yeah. 'Cause that, that... 'cause those don't really show up on the fossil record, you know?

    13. JR

      Right.

    14. EM

      Um, so un- unless it's enough to cause a, a, you know, mass extinction event throughout Earth, it, it doesn't show up on, you know, in a fossil record that's, uh, 200 million years old. Um, so the, uh... Yeah. But, but there've been, there've been many, um, many impacts that would have sort of destroyed all life on, you know, let's say half of North America or something like that. There've been many such impacts through the course of history.

    15. JR

      Yeah. And there's nothing we can do about it right now.

    16. EM

      Yeah. There was one that, um, hits... There was... Went ahead and hit Siberia and destroyed, I think, um, a few hundred square miles.

    17. JR

      Oh, that's the Tunguska.

    18. EM

      Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah.

    19. JR

      That's the one from the 1920s, right?

    20. EM

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      Yeah. That's the one that coincides with that meteor, that, uh, comet storm that we go through every June and every November that they think is responsible for that Younger Dryas impact.

    22. EM

      Yeah.

  7. 15:30 – 17:51

    SpaceX tour debrief: Starship launch awe and Starbase as a city

    1. JR

      Yeah. All that shit's crazy. Um, thank you, before we go any further, for letting us have a tour of SpaceX.

    2. EM

      You're welcome.

    3. JR

      And letting us be there for the rocket launch.

    4. EM

      Sure.

    5. JR

      One of the absolute coolest things I've ever seen in my life. And we, we've... We were s- We thought it was only like... I thought it was a half a mile. Jamie's like it was a mile away. Turned out, it's almost two miles away.

    6. EM

      Yeah, yeah.

    7. JR

      And you feel it in your chest.

    8. EM

      Yeah, it's very intense.

    9. JR

      You have to wear earplugs, and you feel it in your chest, and it's two miles away.

    10. EM

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      It was fucking amazing.

    12. EM

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      And then to go with you up into the command center and to watch all the Starlink satellites with all the different cameras and all in real time-

    14. EM

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      ... as it made its way all the way to Australia. How many minutes? Like, 35, 40 minutes?

    16. EM

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      Wild. Watch it touch down in Australia.

    18. EM

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      Fucking crazy. It was amazing.

    20. EM

      Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, yeah.

    21. JR

      Absolutely amazing.

    22. EM

      The Starship's awesome. Um, and anyone can go watch the launch, actually. So you can just go to, um, South Padre Island to get as great view of the launch. Um, so it's like where a lot of spring breakers go.

    23. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    24. EM

      Um, but, um, but we'll be flying pretty frequently, um, out of Starbase in South Texas, and we, we formally incorporated it as a city, so it's-

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. EM

      It's actually, uh, a legally... an actual legal city, Starbase, Texas. Um, it's not that often you hear like, "Hey, we made a city," you know?

    27. JR

      (laughs)

    28. EM

      Um, that used to be like the... Like in, in the old days, like a startup would be you go and gather a bunch of people and say, "Hey, let's go make a town." Literally.

    29. JR

      Right.

    30. EM

      That was like... That would have been startups in, in, in the old days. Um...

  8. 17:51 – 27:12

    Why rockets blow up: testing corners, hot staging, and Raptor engine evolution

    1. JR

      I had to explain to someone. They were going, "Why do they blow up all the time if you're so smart?" Because there's this, there's this fucking idiot on television. Some guy was being interviewed and they were talking about you and he goes, "Oh, I think he's a fuckwit." And he goes, "He's a fuckwit?" And he goes, "Why do you say he's a fuck..." "Oh, his rockets keep blowing up." And someone said, "Yeah, well, why do his rockets blow?" And I had to explain.

    2. EM

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      Because it's the only way you find out what the tolerances are. You have to-

    4. EM

      Yes.

    5. JR

      You have to... A few of them have to blow up.

    6. EM

      You have to explore the corners of the box. So, so like... So when you're doing a new r- uh, rocket development program...Um, you- you ha- you have to, uh, do what's called a, uh, you know, exploring the limits, the corners of the box, where you say, it's like you, "Worst case this, worst case that," um, to figure out, um, uh, w- where, where the limits are. So, uh, you, you blow up, you know, not, not ... Admittedly, in the development process, sometimes it blows up accidentally. Um, but, but we intentionally subject it to, uh, uh, you know, a f- a flight regime that is much worse than what we expect in normal flight, so that when we put people on board, or valuable cargo, it doesn't blow up. Um, so, um, so, so for example, for the- the flight that you saw, we, we actually deliberately took, um, heat shield tiles off the, the, the ship, the St- off of Starship, in, in some of the worst locations, to say, "Okay, if we lose a, uh, heat shield tile here, is it, is it catastrophic or is it not?" Um, and we ... Well, nonetheless, uh, Starship was able to do a soft landing, um, in, uh, in the Indian Ocean, just, uh, west of Australia. Um, which is ... And it, and it got there from Texas in, like, I don't know, 35, 40 minutes type of thing. So ...

    7. JR

      So it landed even though you put it through this situation where ...

    8. EM

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      ... it has compromised shield?

    10. EM

      It, it, it had an, uh, an, an, an unusually ... We, we, we brought it in hot, like, on, on extra-hot trajectory, uh, with missing tiles, um, to see if it would still make it to a soft landing, which it did. Uh, now (laughs) I should point out, it did, did have ... There were some holes that were burnt into it. Um, but it's, it was robust enough to land despite having some holes burnt in, you know, that, that ... Yeah.

    11. JR

      We-

    12. EM

      'Cause it's coming, it's coming in like a blazing meteor.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. EM

      You can see, you can see the real-time video.

    15. JR

      Well, tell me the speed again, because the- well, the speed was bananas. You were talking about the-

    16. EM

      Yeah, it's like 17,000 miles an hour.

    17. JR

      Which is-

    18. EM

      Or, like, or like 25 times the speed of sound or thereabouts. So, um, the, uh, uh ... So, so think about it like it's, it's like 12 times faster than a bullet from an assault rifle.

    19. JR

      (laughs)

    20. EM

      You know, a bullet from an assault rifle is around mach 2.

    21. JR

      And it's this ... And it's huge.

    22. EM

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      (laughs)

    24. EM

      Yeah. Or if, or if you compare it to, like, a bullet from a, um, you know, a 45 or, or nine mil, which is subsonic, that's, you know, it'll be about 30 times faster than a bullet from a handgun.

    25. JR

      30 times faster than a bullet from a handgun, and it's the size of a skyscraper.

    26. EM

      Yes.

    27. JR

      (laughs)

    28. EM

      Yeah. That's fast.

    29. JR

      It's so wild. It's so wild-

    30. EM

      Yeah.

  9. 27:12 – 31:15

    Space economy and orbital crowding: Starlink scale and ‘space is roomy’

    1. EM

      Um, but that's how the other rockets in the world work. Um, now the SpaceX Falcon rocket is the only one that is, is that's, uh, that is at least mostly reusable. You've seen, you've seen the Falcon rocket, you know, land. Uh, we've now done over 500 landings of the SpaceX rocket, of the, of the Falcon 9 rocket. Um, and, um, and, and this year, um, you know, we'll, we'll deliver pr- probably, I don't know, somewhere between 2,200 and 2,500 tons to orbit, um, with, with the Falcon 9, uh, Falcon Heavy rockets. Uh, not counting anything from, from Starship. Um-

    2. JR

      And this is mostly Starlink?

    3. EM

      Yes. Mostly Starlink. But we launch, uh, many other... We, we, we even launch our competitors on, um, competitors to Starlink on, on Falcon 9. We charge them the same price. Pretty fair. Um, uh, but, uh, SpaceX this year will deliver, um, roughly 90% of all Earth mass to orbit.

    4. JR

      Wow.

    5. EM

      Um, and then of the remaining 10%, um, most of that is done by China. And then the, then the remaining, I don't know, roughly 4% is, uh, everyone else in the world, including our, our American- uh, domestic competitors.

    6. JR

      You know, um, it- it's kind of incredible how many things are in space. Like, how many things are floating above us now.

    7. EM

      There's a lot of things. Yeah.

    8. JR

      Like, there... Is there a sat-

    9. EM

      Space is big though.

    10. JR

      Right.

    11. EM

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      But is there a saturation point where we're gonna have problems with all these different satellites that are...

    13. EM

      Um, I think yes. A- as long as the satellites are, um, maintained, uh, there's, there, it'll be fine. There's, it's... Space is very roomy. Um-

    14. JR

      (laughs)

    15. EM

      It's- it's... Like, you can think of, um, like, space as being concentric shells of the surface of the Earth. So, um, you know, the- there's, there's... It's the surface of the Earth, but, but there's... It's a series of-

    16. JR

      It's much larger. Yeah.

    17. EM

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      Expansive.

    19. EM

      It's like a series of concentric shells.

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. EM

      Um...

    22. JR

      And think of an Airstream trailer flying around up there. There's a lot of room for Airstreams.

    23. EM

      Yeah. I mean, imagine, yeah, if, if there were just a few thousand Airstreams, um, on-

    24. JR

      On Earth.

    25. EM

      ... on Earth.

    26. JR

      Yeah.

    27. EM

      What are the odds that they'd hit each other, you know?

    28. JR

      They wouldn't be very crowded.

    29. EM

      Yeah.

    30. JR

      You know? And then you got to go bigger...

  10. 31:15 – 38:37

    Tesla design priorities: future aesthetics, Cybertruck materials, and performance extremes

    1. JR

      Speaking of carbon fiber, did you check out my unplugged Tesla out there?

    2. EM

      Yeah, it's cool.

    3. JR

      Pretty sick, right?

    4. EM

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      Yeah. Have you guys ever thought about doing something like that? Like having like an AMG division of Tesla where you do like custom stuff?

    6. EM

      Um, I think it's best to le- leave that to the custom shops. Uh, you know, we're, we're, we're, like, like, Tesla's focus is autonomous cars, um, you know, building kind of futuristic autonomous cars. Um, so, um, li- like, I think it's, we, we want the future to look like the future. Um, so the, uh, d- like, did you see like s- our designs for like the sort of the robotic bus?

    7. JR

      No.

    8. EM

      Uh, it looks pretty cool.

    9. JR

      The robotic bus? It's supposed to be-

    10. EM

      Yeah, the ro-

    11. JR

      ... totally autonomous bus?

    12. EM

      We ne- we didn't actually figure out the good name for it, like, I think the, we called it the robot bus or I don't... it's no good. There's like... what do you call this thing? But it looks, it looks cool. It's, it's very art deco. It's, it's like, it's like futuristic art deco. Um, and, um, it, it does, it, like, I think we, we want to change the aesthetic over time. You don't want the aesthetic to be constant over time. You wanna e- evolve the aesthetic. Um, so, um, you know, like, my, uh, like, I have a son who's, who's like, you know, he's, he's, he's like even more autistic than me. And, um, and, uh, but he's, he has these great observations.

    13. JR

      Who is this?

    14. EM

      Saxon. He has these great observations on the world, uh, because his, his, he just views the world through a different lens, uh, than, than most people. Um, and he's like, "Dad, why does the world look like it's 2015?"

    15. JR

      (laughs)

    16. EM

      (laughs) And I'm like, "Damn, the world does look like it's 2015." Like, the aesthetic has not evolved since 2015.

    17. JR

      Whoa. That's what it looks like?

    18. EM

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      Oh, wow.

    20. EM

      That's pretty cool.

    21. JR

      Oh, yeah. That's like... what is-

    22. EM

      Like, you'd wanna see that going down the road, you know?

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. EM

      You, you'd be like, "Okay, this is... we're in the future." You know? It doesn't look like 2015.

    25. JR

      What is that ancient-

    26. EM

      (laughs)

    27. JR

      ... science fiction movie, like one of the first science fiction movies ever? Is it Metropolis? Is that what it is?

    28. EM

      Yeah, yeah.

    29. JR

      Yeah. That looks like it belongs in Metropolis.

    30. EM

      Yeah, yeah.

  11. 38:37 – 41:49

    Roadster teaser: ‘unforgettable’ demo and hints of something beyond a car

    1. JR

      Are you still doing the Roadster?

    2. EM

      Yes.

    3. JR

      Eventually?

    4. EM

      Um, we're getting close to demonstrating the prototype.

    5. JR

      Like, how close?

    6. EM

      And I think this will be... I, I, I, I... one thing I can guarantee is that this product demo will be unforgettable. Unforgettable.

    7. JR

      How so?

    8. EM

      It... whether it's good or bad (laughs) it will be unforgettable. Um...

    9. JR

      Can you say more? What do you mean?

    10. EM

      Well, you know, my friend Peter Thiel, um, you know, uh, o- once reflected that, uh, the s- the future was supposed to have flying cars, but we don't have flying cars.

    11. JR

      So you gonna be able to fly?

    12. EM

      Well, I... I mean, uh, I think if Peter wants a flying car, we should, he should be able to buy one.

    13. JR

      So you... are you actively considering making an electric flying car? Is this like a real thing?

    14. EM

      Well, we have to see in the-

    15. JR

      In the demo?

    16. EM

      ... when we do it, yeah.

    17. JR

      So when you do this, like... (laughs) are, are you gonna have a retractable wing? Like, what is the idea behind this? Don't be sly. Come on. Tell us.

    18. EM

      I, I, I can't, I can't, uh, do the unveil before the unveil, um, but, um...

    19. JR

      Tell me off-air, then.

    20. EM

      I, I, I th- it ha- look, I, I think it has a shot at being the most memorable, um, product unveil ever. It has a shot.

    21. JR

      (laughs)

    22. EM

      Uh...

    23. JR

      And when do you plan on doing this? What's the goal?

    24. EM

      Uh, hopefully before the end of the year.

    25. JR

      Really?

    26. EM

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      Before the end of this year? This is... I mean, we're almost November 1st.

    28. EM

      Yeah, like, in a couple months. Hopefully in a couple months. Um, you know, we need to make sure that it works. Uh, like, this is some crazy, crazy technology we've got in this car. Crazy technology. Crazy, crazy.

    29. JR

      So-

    30. EM

      Um...

  12. 41:49 – 1:02:19

    Running X and confronting censorship: government influence, platform shifts, and “woke mind virus”

    1. JR

      Yeah. Um, it's, uh, it's kinda crazy all the different things that you're involved in simultaneously, and, you know, we talked about this before, your time management, but I, I really don't understand it. I don't understand how you can be paying attention to all of these different things simultaneously, Starlink, SpaceX, Tesla, Boring Company, X, you Tw-... you, you fucking tweet, or post rather, all day long.

    2. EM

      Well-

    3. JR

      It's like-

    4. EM

      ... it's more like I'm... I'm... I could hop in for, like, two minutes and then hop out, you know?

    5. JR

      Yeah. But I mean, just the fact that you can do that-

    6. EM

      Um, bathroom break, whatever, you know? Um...

    7. JR

      I can't do that.

    8. EM

      Um...

    9. JR

      If I hop in, I start scrolling, and I start looking around, next thing you know, I've lost an hour.

    10. EM

      Yeah. Um, so... no, it's... for me, it's, it's a couple minutes' time, usually. It's once in a while... sometimes, I guess, half an hour, but usually I'm, I'm, I'm in for a few minutes, then out of, of, you know, posting something on X. Uh, (laughs) you know, it's, it's... I do sometimes feel like it's sometimes like-... that, that meme of the guy who's like, who drops the grenade and leaves the room. (laughs)

    11. JR

      (laughs)

    12. EM

      That's been me more than once on, on X. (laughs)

    13. JR

      Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. Um, it's gotta be fun though. It's gotta be fun to know that you essentially disrupted the entire social media chain of command-

    14. EM

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      ... because there was a, there was a very clear thing that was going on with social media.

    16. EM

      Yeah, yeah.

    17. JR

      The government had infiltrated it. They were-

    18. EM

      Yeah, it was crazy.

    19. JR

      ... censoring speech. And until you bought it, we really didn't know the extent of it. We kind of assumed that there was something going on.

    20. EM

      Yeah.

    21. JR

      We had no idea that they were actively involved in censoring actual real news stories, real data, real scientists, real professors silenced, expelled, kicked off the platform.

    22. EM

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      Wild.

    24. EM

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. EM

      For telling the truth.

    27. JR

      For telling the truth.

    28. EM

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      And I, I'm sure you've also... Like, and I... 'cause I sent it to you, that chart that shows, uh, young kids, teenagers identifying as trans as, and non-binary.

    30. EM

      Right.

  13. 1:02:19 – 1:06:32

    Privacy, encryption, and XChat: ‘degrees of insecurity’ and ad-driven vulnerabilities

    1. JR

      Uh, when you, uh, when you text people, do you... Are you like keenly aware that there's a high likelihood that someone's reading your texts?

    2. EM

      Um, I guess? I alwa- I guess I, I-

    3. JR

      I assume.

    4. EM

      I... Look, if, if, if, if intelligence agencies aren't trying to read my phone, they should probably be fired. (laughs)

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. EM

      (laughs)

    7. JR

      At least they get some fun memes.

    8. EM

      (laughs) I gotta, I gotta, I gotta crack them up once in a while, you know?

    9. JR

      Oh, for sure, I crack them up.

    10. EM

      It's like-

    11. JR

      They're looking at my-

    12. EM

      It's like, like, "Hey, hey guys, check it out. We've got a banger here," you know?

    13. JR

      So-

    14. EM

      (laughs)

    15. JR

      ... I wanna, so I wanted to talk to you about, uh, whether or not encrypted apps are really secure.

    16. EM

      Uh, no. (laughs)

    17. JR

      Right, 'cause I know the Tucker thing. So it was explained to me by a friend who, uh, used to do this, used to work for the government.

    18. EM

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      He's like, "They can look at your signal, but what they have to do is take the information that's encrypted and then they have to decrypt it and it's very expensive." So they said, he told me that for the Tucker Carlson thing, when they found out that he was gonna interview Putin, it costs like, something like $750,000 just to decrypt his messages to find out that they did it. So it is possible to do. It's just not that easy to do.

    20. EM

      I think you should view any given messaging system as, um, uh, not, not whether it's secure or not, but, but there are degrees of insecurity. So, um, so there's just some, some things that are less insecure than others. Um, so, um, you know, on, on X we, we just rebuilt the entire messaging stack, um, into X- what's called XChat, so-

    21. JR

      Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you about.

    22. EM

      Yeah, it's cool. Um, so it's, it's using, uh, sort of peer-to-peer, uh, sort of, kind of a peer-to-peer based, uh, uh, encryption system. So it's kind of similar to Bitcoin. Um, so it's, uh, it's, it's, I think, very good encryption. We're gonna... And we're, you know, we're testing it thoroughly. We don't... There's, there's no hooks in the X system for advertising. So if you look, look at something like WhatsApp or really any of the others, they've got, they've got hooks in there for advertising. Uh-

    23. JR

      When you say hooks, what do you mean by that?

    24. EM

      Uh, (laughs) exactly. What do you mean by hook for advertising? Um, the... So in, like, WhatsApp, um, uh, knows enough about what you're texting to show you, to show you... To know what ads to show you.

    25. JR

      Oh.

    26. EM

      But then, like, that, that's a massive-

    27. JR

      Right.

    28. EM

      ... security vulnerability.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. EM

      Um, 'cause if it knows, if, if it's got information, enough information to show you ads, it's got enough, it's got... That's a lot of information.

  14. 1:06:32 – 1:12:50

    AI-first devices: the end of apps, AI-generated media, and comedy/music disruption

    1. EM

      Well, I can tell you where I think things are gonna go, uh, which is that it's... we're not gonna have a phone or, or, or in the traditional sense. The, what we call a phone will really be, um, an edge node for AI inference for, for AI video inference, um, with, uh, you know, with some radios to, to obviously connect, uh, to... But, but it essentially will have, um, uh, AI on the server side commun- communicating to an AI on your, your device, um, you know, formally known as a phone. Uh, and generating real-time video of anything that you could possibly want. Um, and I think there, that there won't be operating systems. There won't be apps. In the future, there won't be op- operating systems or apps. It'll just be, you've got a device that is there for the screen and audio and for, uh, and, and, and, and to, uh, put as much AI on the... on, on the device.... as possible so as to minimize the amount of bandwidth that's needed between your edge node device, or, formally known as a phone, and the servers.

    2. JR

      So, if there's no apps, what will people use? Like, will X still exist? Will, uh, th- will they be e- email platforms or will you get everything through AI?

    3. EM

      You'll get everything through AI.

    4. JR

      Everything through AI? What will be the benefit of that? As opposed to having individual apps?

    5. EM

      Whatever you can think of, or really, whatever the AI can anticipate you might want, it'll show you. That's, that's, that's, that's my prediction for where things end up.

    6. JR

      What kind of timeframe are we talking about here?

    7. EM

      I don't know. It's pro-... Well, it's probably five or six years, something like that.

    8. JR

      So, five or six years, apps are like Blockbuster Video?

    9. EM

      Pretty much.

    10. JR

      And everything's run through AI?

    11. EM

      Um, yeah. And, and there'll be, um... Like, y- most of what people consume in five or six y- years, ma- maybe sooner than that, um, will be, uh, just AI-generated content. So, um, you know, music, videos, uh, l- well, um, there's already, um... You know, there's... People have made, uh, AI videos using Grok Imagine and with, using, you know, o- other apps as well, um, that are several minutes long or, like, 10, 15 minutes and it's pretty coherent.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. EM

      It looks good.

    14. JR

      No, it looks amazing.

    15. EM

      Um... Yeah.

    16. JR

      It's, it... The music's disturbing 'cause it's my favorite music now. Like AI music-

    17. EM

      AI music is your fa-... Is your favorite?

    18. JR

      Oh, there's AI covers. Have you ever heard any of the AI covers of 50 Cent songs in soul?

    19. EM

      No.

    20. JR

      I'm gonna blow your mind.

    21. EM

      Okay.

    22. JR

      Um, this is my favorite thing to do to people. Play, uh, What Up Gangsta. Now, this guy, if this was a real person-

    23. EM

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      ... would be the number one music artist in the world.

    25. EM

      Okay.

    26. JR

      Everybody would be like, "Holy shit, have you heard this guy?"

    27. EM

      Yeah.

    28. JR

      He's incred-... It's like they took all of the sounds that all of the artists have generated-

    29. EM

      Sure.

    30. JR

      ... and created the most soulful, potent voice, and it's sung in a way that I don't even know if you could do because you would have to breathe in and out of reps. Here, put the headphones on.

  15. 1:12:50 – 1:28:11

    AI safety and ‘truth-seeking’ vs ideology: biased outputs, training feedback, and Grok’s positioning

    1. JR

      And when this is all taking place, like... So, the big concern that everybody has-

    2. EM

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      ... is artificial general superintelligence achieving sentience-

    4. EM

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      ... and then someone having control over it.

    6. EM

      I mean, I don't... I don't think anyone's ultimately gonna have control over digital superintelligence, um, any more than, say, uh, a chimp would have control over humans. Like, chimps don't have control over humans. There's nothing they could do. Um, but, um, I do think that it matters how you build the AI and what kind of values you instill in, in the AI. And, um, my opinion on AI safety is the most important thing is that it be maximally truth-seeking, like, that you don't force the AI to believe things that are false. Um, and we've obviously s- seen some concerning things with AI that we talked about, you know, where...You know, Google Gemini when it came out with the Image Gen, um, and people said like, uh, you know, draw... Ma- make an image of the founding fathers of the United States and it was a group of diverse women.

Episode duration: 3:18:25

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