Joe Rogan Experience #2404 - Elon Musk

Elon Musk 0:00 (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. (rock music plays)

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Elon Musk 0:11 (instrumental music) Exactly. Um-

Joe Rogan 0:14 Just every morning.

Elon Musk 0:14 ... I wonder what Jeff Bezos is doing?

Narrator 0:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:17 He's doing some, definitely doing some testosterone.

Elon Musk 0:19 Yeah, right. (laughs)

Narrator 0:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:21 He looks jacked. He looks jacked, right?

Elon Musk 0:23 Yeah. But he's a, like-

Joe Rogan 0:24 Quick.

Elon Musk 0:25 ... qu- quick.

Joe Rogan 0:26 Quick. (laughs)

Elon Musk 0:27 Like, well, I mean- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:28 Yeah. Yeah, he got jacked quick.

Elon Musk 0:29 At age, like, 50-

Joe Rogan 0:30 Yeah. (laughs)

Elon Musk 0:30 At 50, at age 59, in less than a year, he, he went from pencil neck geek to, uh, looking like a mini- like, like the Rock.

Joe Rogan 0:38 Yeah, like a l- little miniature alpha fella.

Elon Musk 0:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:41 Yeah.

Elon Musk 0:41 Like, like, his neck got bigger than his head.

Joe Rogan 0:43 Yeah, he got big quick.

Elon Musk 0:43 And then, and then, but then, like, his earlier pictures, his neck's, like, a noodle.

Joe Rogan 0:46 I support this activity.

Elon Musk 0:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:48 I would like to see him going in this direction.

Elon Musk 0:49 Which is fine, and his voice dropped, like, two octaves.

Joe Rogan 0:52 (smacks lips) I want you to move in that direction as well.

Elon Musk 0:53 Okay.

Joe Rogan 0:54 I think we can achieve this.

Elon Musk 0:55 I, I, I mean, I, I should-

Joe Rogan 0:56 I can, I think we can achieve-

Elon Musk 0:58 Oh.

Joe Rogan 0:58 ... Giga Chad.

Elon Musk 1:00 (laughs) G- G- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01 Beep, that's what Beeple called it.

Elon Musk 1:02 Where is that guy?

Joe Rogan 1:03 Beeple? Uh, I don't know where he is.

Elon Musk 1:05 (laughs) That's, like, a real guy.

Joe Rogan 1:07 The artist? Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:08 No, well- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08 Oh, Giga Chad. Oh, Giga Chad.

Elon Musk 1:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10 Yeah, I don't know if that's a real guy. It's hard to tell.

Elon Musk 1:12 No, no, it is a real guy.

Joe Rogan 1:13 It is a real guy?

Elon Musk 1:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14 He's got the crazy jaw and, like, perfect sculpted hair.

Elon Musk 1:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:18 Well, I mean, they may have exaggerated a little bit, but-

Joe Rogan 1:20 Probably.

Elon Musk 1:20 ... um, but, uh, no, I think, I think he actually just kinda looked like that in reality.

Joe Rogan 1:25 Whoa.

Elon Musk 1:25 Um, so like, like he's some-

Joe Rogan 1:28 We can get him looking like that.

Elon Musk 1:28 ... he's a pretty unique-looking individual.

Joe Rogan 1:30 I think we can achieve this. That guy right there? That's a real guy?

Elon Musk 1:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:33 (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:34 That's a real dude?

Elon Musk 1:35 No, that- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:35 I always thought that was CGI.

Elon Musk 1:37 No, it's, like, I, I think one of the (laughs) , I think the upper right one is not him. (laughs) That's not him.

Joe Rogan 1:42 (laughs) But that one to the left of that, like, that's real? No, that's, that's artificial, bro. That's fake. That's got that uncanny valley feel to it, doesn't it?

Elon Musk 1:51 It's, it's not impossible.

Joe Rogan 1:52 No. No, it's not impossible to achieve, but it's not, it's not possible to maintain that kinda leanness.

Elon Musk 1:58 No, no.

Joe Rogan 1:58 Like, that's a crazy leanness.

Elon Musk 1:58 I mean, th- that, that's, like, like, you're, you're, you're also, like, at that point, you're, they're, they're, he's dehydrating and all sorts of things.

Joe Rogan 2:04 Oh, it's based on a real person?

Elon Musk 2:06 Yeah, yeah, basically it's, it's-

Joe Rogan 2:06 Right, but it's not a real person.

Elon Musk 2:08 What does he really look like?

Joe Rogan 2:09 Like, those images, I think, are bullshit. Some of them are re- is that real? Okay, that real, that looks real. That looks like a really jacked bodybuilder.

Elon Musk 2:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:18 Yeah, that looks real. Like, that's achievable, but there's a few of those images where you're just like, "What's going on here?"

Elon Musk 2:24 Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Um...

Joe Rogan 2:25 Yeah.

Elon Musk 2:26 Well, I mean, you s- you see that (laughs) that guy?

Joe Rogan 2:28 Hans from...

Elon Musk 2:29 Is that, is that the I-

Joe Rogan 2:30 That's the real dude.

Elon Musk 2:31 Well, th- there's that, that, that Icelandic dude who's Thor.

Joe Rogan 2:35 Oh, yeah, the guy who jumps into the frozen lakes and shit? Yeah.

Elon Musk 2:37 Well, the, the guy who played the mountain. Um...

Joe Rogan 2:39 Oh, that guy.

Elon Musk 2:40 That is-

Joe Rogan 2:40 Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Elon Musk 2:41 ... that is like a, that, that is like a, a mutant strong human.

Joe Rogan 2:44 Yes.

Elon Musk 2:45 Like-

Joe Rogan 2:45 Yeah.

Elon Musk 2:45 ... like, uh, he would be in, like, the X-Men or something, you know?

Joe Rogan 2:48 We were hanging out-

Elon Musk 2:49 I mean, he's, he's just, like, not like, uh... And, and, (laughs) and, and then, and there's that, you know that, have you seen that meme, tent and tent bag?

Joe Rogan 2:56 No.

Elon Musk 2:56 Um, you know how, like, it's, like, it's really hard to get the tent, (laughs) tent in the tent?

Joe Rogan 2:59 Oh, right, right.

Elon Musk 3:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:04 (laughs)

Elon Musk 3:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:05 That's true.

Elon Musk 3:05 And then there's a picture of, of him and his girlfriend with a-

Joe Rogan 3:08 Oh, right, tent bag. That's hilarious.

Elon Musk 3:12 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:12 Yeah, that's his wife.

Elon Musk 3:13 I don't know how it gets in there, you know? It's like it seems too small, but...

Joe Rogan 3:16 I've met Brian Shaw.

Elon Musk 3:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:18 Brian Shaw is, like-

Elon Musk 3:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:19 ... the world's most powerful man.

Elon Musk 3:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:21 And he's almost seven feet tall.

Elon Musk 3:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:23 He's 400 pounds.

Elon Musk 3:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:26 And his, his bone density is one in 500 million people. So there's one-

Elon Musk 3:32 Wow.

Joe Rogan 3:32 ... it's like, there's, like, maybe 16 people-

Elon Musk 3:35 You mean he's just got really dense bones?

Joe Rogan 3:35 He's an enormous human being.

Elon Musk 3:38 Okay.

Joe Rogan 3:38 Like, a legitimate giant, l- just like that guy.

Elon Musk 3:40 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:41 But we met him. He was hanging out with us in the green room of the mothership. It's like, okay, if this was, like, David and Goliath days, like-

Elon Musk 3:47 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:47 ... this is a, an actual giant, like the giants of the Bible.

Elon Musk 3:50 Yes, like they say, once in a while they get a super giant person.

Joe Rogan 3:51 This is a real, a real one.

Elon Musk 3:53 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:53 Like, not tall, skinny basketball player.

Elon Musk 3:55 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:55 Like, a seven-foot-

Elon Musk 3:57 He's just-

Joe Rogan 3:57 ... 400-pound power lifter.

Elon Musk 3:59 Like, you don't wanna, es- especially-

Joe Rogan 4:00 Look at him. That's the guy. See if there's a photo of him standing next to, like, a regular human.

Narrator 4:04 There is. I was trying to get this-

Joe Rogan 4:05 There it is.

Elon Musk 4:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:06 That's him right there.

Elon Musk 4:06 Like, there's, like, there's, like, one of him with, next to, standing next to Arnold and stuff.

Joe Rogan 4:10 Yeah.

Elon Musk 4:10 And it's where Ar- Arn- everyone, everyone just looks tiny. I mean, I think he's a pretty cool dude, actually.

Joe Rogan 4:15 Oh, Brian's very cool. Very smart too.

Elon Musk 4:17 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:17 Unusual, you, you know, you expect anybody to be that big's gotta be a moron.

Elon Musk 4:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:22 But no.

Elon Musk 4:22 Uh, yeah. And there's a, there's a, André the Giant who's awesome. You know in-

Joe Rogan 4:26 Yeah.

Elon Musk 4:27 ... he was great in Princess Bride and...

Joe Rogan 4:29 No, he was just awesome, period.

Elon Musk 4:30 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:31 So we were talking about, um, this interview with Sam Altman and Tucker, and I was like, "We should probably just talk about this on the air."

Elon Musk 4:38 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:39 'Cause it is one of the craziest interviews I think I've ever seen in my life.

Elon Musk 4:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:43 Where Tucker starts bringing up this guy who was-

Elon Musk 4:46 Oh, yeah, whistleblower or whatever.

Joe Rogan 4:48 ... he looked like a whistleblower-

Elon Musk 4:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:49 ... who, you know, committed suicide, but doesn't look like it, and-

Elon Musk 4:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:54 ... and he's talking to Sam Altman about this. And Sam Altman was like, "Are you accusing me?" He's like, "No, no, no. I'm not. I'm just saying, I, I think someone killed him." (laughs)

Elon Musk 5:03 Yeah. And, like, and it should be investigated.

Joe Rogan 5:05 Yeah.

Elon Musk 5:06 Um, not just drop the case.

Joe Rogan 5:09 Well, it seems like-

Elon Musk 5:10 That they just dropped the case, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:11 Yeah, it seems like he's-

Elon Musk 5:11 But his, his parents think he was murdered.

Joe Rogan 5:13 Yeah.

Elon Musk 5:13 Um, the wires to his security camera were cut. Um...

Joe Rogan 5:17 Blood in two rooms.

Elon Musk 5:18 Blood in two rooms. Someone else's wig was in the room and-

Joe Rogan 5:21 Someone else's wig.

Elon Musk 5:22 Wig.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Wig.

Elon Musk 5:23 Yes.

Joe Rogan 5:23 Yeah, not normal.

Elon Musk 5:24 Not his wig. Um-

Joe Rogan 5:25 Not normal to have a wig laying around.

Elon Musk 5:27 Yes. Um, and, um, and he ordered DoorDash, uh, right before allegedly committing suicide.

Joe Rogan 5:33 Yeah.

Elon Musk 5:34 Uh, which, uh, is, uh, seems unusual, you know?

Joe Rogan 5:37 Yeah.

Elon Musk 5:37 It's like, you know, "Let's, I'm gonna order pizza. On second thought, I'll kill myself," uh, is, yeah, it seems like that's a very rapid change in mindset.

Joe Rogan 5:45 It's very weird. And especially the parents have, uh, they, they don't believe he committed suicide at all.

Elon Musk 5:51 He has no note or anything.

Joe Rogan 5:52 No.

Elon Musk 5:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:53 It seems pretty fucked up. And, you know, the idea that a whistleblower-

Elon Musk 5:57 It's like-

Joe Rogan 5:57 ... for an enormous AI company that's worth billions of dollars might get whacked, that's not outside the pale.

Elon Musk 6:04 ... I mean, it's straight out of a movie.

Joe Rogan 6:06 Right out of a movie. But right out of a movie is real sometimes.

Elon Musk 6:08 Yeah, right. (laughs) Exactly.

Joe Rogan 6:10 Right? Right?

Elon Musk 6:11 It's like, it's a little weird that I th- I think they should do a proper investigation. Like, what's the downside on that proper investigation?

Joe Rogan 6:17 Right. No.

Elon Musk 6:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:19 For sure.

Elon Musk 6:20 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:20 But the whole exchange is so bizarre.

Elon Musk 6:23 Yeah, yeah. It, it is-

Joe Rogan 6:24 Sam Altman's reaction to being accused of murder is bizarre.

Elon Musk 6:28 Look, I don't know if he's guilty, but it's not possible to look more guilty.

Joe Rogan 6:33 (laughs)

Elon Musk 6:33 (laughs) So I'm like-

Joe Rogan 6:35 Or look more weird.

Elon Musk 6:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:38 You know, maybe it's just his social thing. Like, maybe he's just odd with confrontation, and it just goes blank, you know? But if- if somebody was accusing me of killing Jamie-

Elon Musk 6:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:51 ... like if Jamie was a whistleblower and Jamie got whacked, and then I'd be like, "Wait, what are you, what are you s- are you accusing me of killing my friend? Like, what the fuck are you talking about?" I would- I would be a little bit more irate.

Elon Musk 7:02 Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, it'd be, um-

Joe Rogan 7:04 I would be a little upset.

Elon Musk 7:07 I- yeah. Or it- it'd be like, uh, well, you'd be f- like s- you'd certainly in- insist on a thorough investigation.

Joe Rogan 7:13 Yeah.

Elon Musk 7:13 As opposed to trying to sweep it under the rug.

Joe Rogan 7:15 Yeah, I wouldn't assume-

Elon Musk 7:16 Um-

Joe Rogan 7:16 ... that he got... that he committed suicide. I would be suspicious. If- if Tucker was telling me that aspect of the story, I'd be like, "That does seem like a murder. Fuck, we should look into this."

Elon Musk 7:25 I mean, all signs point to it being a murder. Not- not saying, you know, Sam Altman had anything to do with the murder, but, uh-

Joe Rogan 7:30 Blood in two rooms.

Elon Musk 7:31 But s- blood in two rooms. Like, uh, yeah. There's s- there's-

Joe Rogan 7:35 It could be.

Elon Musk 7:35 Why is there security camera and the DoorDash being ordered right before suicide? No suicide note. His parents think, uh, he was murdered. And, um, the people that I know who knew him said he was not suicidal. So I'm like, this... Why would you be... jump to the conclusion-

Narrator 7:51 His parents just sued the landlord.

Elon Musk 7:52 Uh-

Joe Rogan 7:53 They sue the son's landlord, allege the owners and the managers of their son's San Francisco apartment building were part of a widespread coverup of his death.

Elon Musk 7:59 The landlord?

Narrator 8:01 Yeah, there's a bunch of weird... They said there's like packages missing from the building. Some people said they saw packages still being delivered, and then all of a sudden they all disappeared.

Joe Rogan 8:07 Huh.

Narrator 8:08 A few-

Joe Rogan 8:08 But that could be people steal people's packages all the time.

Elon Musk 8:11 The porch pirate situation.

Joe Rogan 8:13 Yeah.

Elon Musk 8:14 Yeah.

Narrator 8:14 He says they failed the safeguard. Uh-

Joe Rogan 8:16 Also, I mean, the amount of trauma those poor parents have gone through with their son dying like that, I mean, it must... God bless them. And how could they be... stay sane after something like that?

Elon Musk 8:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:27 They're probably... They're so grief-stricken, who knows what they believe at this point.

Elon Musk 8:32 Yeah. They should... He should have asked if, uh, Epstein killed himself.

Joe Rogan 8:36 Dan. (laughs)

Elon Musk 8:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:38 Yeah. That's the- the Cash Patel thing-

Elon Musk 8:40 W- wait, where's the camera? Where is it?

Joe Rogan 8:41 ... with Cash Patel and Dan Bongino-

Elon Musk 8:42 Where's the camera?

Joe Rogan 8:42 ... and they were try to convince everybody of that. Like, okay.

Elon Musk 8:45 Uh, the guards weren't there and the cameras stopped working and, um, you know.

Joe Rogan 8:50 The guards were asleep. The cameras weren't working. He had a- a giant steroided-up bodybuilder guy that he was sharing a cell with that was a murderer, who was a bad cop. Like, all of it's kind of nuts.

Elon Musk 9:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:04 All of it's kind of nuts. Like, that he would just kill himself rather than reveal all of his billionaire friends.

Elon Musk 9:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:12 And then...

Narrator 9:13 Did you see Tim Dillon talking to Chris Cuomo about this? 'Cause he, like-

Joe Rogan 9:16 I did.

Narrator 9:17 He, like... Yeah, he was downplaying it.

Joe Rogan 9:17 Chris Cuomo just looked so stupid. (laughs)

Narrator 9:20 Tim just listed off all the-

Joe Rogan 9:22 Tim just-

Elon Musk 9:22 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 9:23 And he's like, "I agree. It is strange." Like, of course, it's strange, Chris. Jesus Christ. You can't just go with the tide. You gotta think things through. And if you think that one through, you're like, "I don't think he killed himself." Nobody does. You don't have to work for an intelligence agency to think he killed himself.

Elon Musk 9:39 (laughs) It does- it does seem unlikely.

Joe Rogan 9:42 It seems highly unlikely.

Elon Musk 9:42 (laughs) It seems highly unlikely.

Joe Rogan 9:46 Highly, highly unlikely.

Elon Musk 9:46 Highly unlikely.

Joe Rogan 9:47 All roads point to murder.

Elon Musk 9:49 Yes.

Joe Rogan 9:49 Point to they had to get rid of him, because he knew too much. Whatever the fuck he was doing-

Elon Musk 9:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:54 ... whatever kind of an asset he was, whatever thing he was up to, uh, appr- you know, was apparently-

Elon Musk 10:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:00 ... very effective.

Elon Musk 10:01 Yes.

Joe Rogan 10:01 And a lot of people were compromised. You see your boy Bill Gates is now saying climate change is not a big deal.

Elon Musk 10:08 Uh.

Joe Rogan 10:08 It's like, "Relax, everybody. I know I scared the fuck out of you for the last decade and a half, but, eh, we're gonna be fine." (laughs)

Elon Musk 10:14 (laughs) Yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 10:19 (sighs) Ugh.

Elon Musk 10:20 You know, as I was say- as I was saying just before coming into the studio with, you know... And like every day, there's some crazy wild new thing that's happening.

Joe Rogan 10:27 Yes.

Elon Musk 10:27 It's l- it- it feels like reality is accelerating.

Joe Rogan 10:29 Y- it's every day, and, uh, uh, every day, it's like more and more ridiculous-

Elon Musk 10:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:35 ... to the point where the simulation is more and more undeniable.

Elon Musk 10:37 Yeah, yeah. It really feels like a simulation. You know, it's like, come on, what are the odds that this could be the case? You know? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:42 Are you paying attention at all to 3i Atlas? Are you watching that?

Elon Musk 10:45 Oh, what, the com- the comet?

Joe Rogan 10:46 Yeah, whatever it is.

Elon Musk 10:49 Um, yeah, yeah. I mean... I mean, one thing I can say is, like, look, I... i- if I s- was aware of any evidence of aliens, um, you- Joe, you have my word, I will come on your show and I will reveal it on the show.

Joe Rogan 11:03 Okay.

Elon Musk 11:04 Yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 11:04 That's a good deal.

Elon Musk 11:05 Yeah, it's a pretty good deal.

Joe Rogan 11:06 I believe you.

Elon Musk 11:06 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:06 Thank you. Appreciate that.

Elon Musk 11:08 I- I'll- I'll stick to... I- I keep my, you know, I keep my promises. So... um-

Joe Rogan 11:11 (laughs) All right.

Elon Musk 11:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:11 I'll hold you to that.

Elon Musk 11:12 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:13 Yeah. I don't-

Elon Musk 11:13 And, and, uh, I'm never committing suicide, to be clear. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:16 (laughs) I don't think you would either.

Elon Musk 11:18 Also, on camera, guys, I am never (laughs) committing suicide ever.

Joe Rogan 11:22 If someone says you committed suicide-

Elon Musk 11:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:24 ... I will fight tooth and nail.

Elon Musk 11:25 Thank you. (laughs) Thank- thank you.

Joe Rogan 11:25 I will fight tooth and nail. I will- I will not believe it.

Elon Musk 11:28 Thanks, brother. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:28 I will not believe it. The thing about the 3i Atlas is it's- it's weird-

Elon Musk 11:32 One, that's a hell of a name, actually.

Joe Rogan 11:33 Yeah, it's a third interstellar-

Elon Musk 11:35 It sounds, it sounds like third eye or something even.

Joe Rogan 11:36 Yeah, it does.

Elon Musk 11:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:38 Three eye is the third... It's only the third interstellar object that's detected.

Elon Musk 11:42 Okay.

Joe Rogan 11:43 Yeah. Avi Loeb.

Elon Musk 11:44 (laughs) Third eye Atlas.

Joe Rogan 11:46 Yeah.

Elon Musk 11:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:47 Avi Loeb was on the podcast a couple of days ago talking about it.

Elon Musk 11:50 Yeah. Um, or it- it could be aliens. I don't know. But I- I- I-

Joe Rogan 11:52 And, uh... Apparently, today they're saying that it's changed course.

Elon Musk 11:55 Um...

Joe Rogan 11:56 Did you see that, Jamie?

Narrator 11:57 Nope.

Joe Rogan 11:59 Avi Loeb said something today. I'll send it to you. Um... Uh, I know it's on Reddit.

Narrator 12:06 Rapidly brightens and dim-

Joe Rogan 12:09 Here you go, Jamie. I'll send it to you right now, huh. Um, it's fascinating. It's fascinating also because it's made almost entirely of nickel, whatever it is.

Elon Musk 12:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:17 And the only way that exists, uh, here is, uh, industrial alloys apparently. Um-

Elon Musk 12:22 Um, there must... No, there are, there are, there are definitely, uh, comets that, and asteroids that are made primarily of nickel.

Joe Rogan 12:29 Oh, really?

Elon Musk 12:30 In fact... Yeah. So the, the, the places where, um, you mine nickel on Earth is actually where there was an asteroid or comet that hit Earth that was a nickel-rich, uh, you know, ast-

Joe Rogan 12:40 Oh, wow.

Elon Musk 12:40 I mean, nickel-rich meteorite.

Joe Rogan 12:41 It left a giant nickel rich, rich deposit?

Elon Musk 12:43 Yeah. That's the, that's, that's, it's coming-

Joe Rogan 12:45 Ooh.

Elon Musk 12:45 Those are from impacts. It was... You definitely didn't want to be there at the time-

Joe Rogan 12:48 (laughs)

Elon Musk 12:48 ... because everything would have been obliterated.

Joe Rogan 12:50 Right.

Elon Musk 12:50 Um, but that's, that's where the, the sources of nickel and cobalt are these days.

Joe Rogan 12:54 So this is Avi Loeb. "A few hours ago, the first hint of non-gravitational acceleration, that something other than gravity is affecting its acceleration, meaning something is affecting its trajectory beyond gravity was indicated." Interesting. Dun-dun-dun. So it's mostly nickel, very little iron, which, uh, he was saying, uh, is... On Earth, it only exists in alloys. But whatever-

Elon Musk 13:21 Um...

Joe Rogan 13:21 ... you know, you're dealing with another planet.

Elon Musk 13:23 There's, there's... There are, there are ca- there are cases where there's ni- very nickel-rich, um, asteroids, meteorites that, that ha- that, that hav- that have hit Earth.

Joe Rogan 13:30 And that's what it is, for something from space?

Elon Musk 13:31 Yeah. It did say something-

Joe Rogan 13:32 Yeah.

Elon Musk 13:32 It doesn't mean it... It'll be, it'll be a very sort of heavy spaceship to be made it's all out of nickel.

Joe Rogan 13:36 Oh, yeah.

Elon Musk 13:37 Um, so...

Joe Rogan 13:38 And fucking huge. The size of Manhattan and all nickel? That's kind of nuts.

Elon Musk 13:41 Yeah. That's a heavy spaceship.

Joe Rogan 13:43 That's a real problem if it hits.

Elon Musk 13:45 Uh, yes. No, no, it would, like, obliterate a continent type of thing.

Joe Rogan 13:48 Yeah.

Elon Musk 13:49 Um, maybe, maybe worse.

Joe Rogan 13:50 Well, yeah, probably kill most of human life.

Elon Musk 13:52 Um...

Joe Rogan 13:53 If not all of us.

Elon Musk 13:54 I don't know. It depends on what the, the total mass is, but, um, there's... I mean, the thing is that like in the fossil record, there are, um, you know, there's like arguably f- arguably five major extinction events, um, like the biggest one of which is the Permian extinction, uh, where, um, almost all life was eliminated. That, that actually occurred over several million, several million years. Um, the- there's the Jurassic. I think Jurassic is... I think that one's pretty definitively an asteroid. Um, and, um... But there's, but there's been five major extin- extinction events. But, um, but what they don't count are really the ones that merely take out a continent. So they're...

Joe Rogan 14:31 (laughs) Merely.

Elon Musk 14:32 Yeah. 'Cause that, that... 'cause those don't really show up on the fossil record, you know?

Joe Rogan 14:35 Right.

Elon Musk 14:36 Um, so un- unless it's enough to cause a, a, you know, mass extinction event throughout Earth, it, it doesn't show up on, you know, in a fossil record that's, uh, 200 million years old. Um, so the, uh... Yeah. But, but there've been, there've been many, um, many impacts that would have sort of destroyed all life on, you know, let's say half of North America or something like that. There've been many such impacts through the course of history.

Joe Rogan 15:03 Yeah. And there's nothing we can do about it right now.

Elon Musk 15:06 Yeah. There was one that, um, hits... There was... Went ahead and hit Siberia and destroyed, I think, um, a few hundred square miles.

Joe Rogan 15:14 Oh, that's the Tunguska.

Elon Musk 15:15 Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:16 That's the one from the 1920s, right?

Elon Musk 15:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:18 Yeah. That's the one that coincides with that meteor, that, uh, comet storm that we go through every June and every November that they think is responsible for that Younger Dryas impact.

Elon Musk 15:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:30 Yeah. All that shit's crazy. Um, thank you, before we go any further, for letting us have a tour of SpaceX.

Elon Musk 15:38 You're welcome.

Joe Rogan 15:38 And letting us be there for the rocket launch.

Elon Musk 15:40 Sure.

Joe Rogan 15:41 One of the absolute coolest things I've ever seen in my life. And we, we've... We were s- We thought it was only like... I thought it was a half a mile. Jamie's like it was a mile away. Turned out, it's almost two miles away.

Elon Musk 15:53 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:53 And you feel it in your chest.

Elon Musk 15:55 Yeah, it's very intense.

Joe Rogan 15:55 You have to wear earplugs, and you feel it in your chest, and it's two miles away.

Elon Musk 15:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:00 It was fucking amazing.

Elon Musk 16:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:02 And then to go with you up into the command center and to watch all the Starlink satellites with all the different cameras and all in real time-

Elon Musk 16:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:11 ... as it made its way all the way to Australia. How many minutes? Like, 35, 40 minutes?

Elon Musk 16:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:16 Wild. Watch it touch down in Australia.

Elon Musk 16:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:20 Fucking crazy. It was amazing.

Elon Musk 16:22 Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:23 Absolutely amazing.

Elon Musk 16:24 The Starship's awesome. Um, and anyone can go watch the launch, actually. So you can just go to, um, South Padre Island to get as great view of the launch. Um, so it's like where a lot of spring breakers go.

Joe Rogan 16:35 Mm-hmm.

Elon Musk 16:36 Um, but, um, but we'll be flying pretty frequently, um, out of Starbase in South Texas, and we, we formally incorporated it as a city, so it's-

Joe Rogan 16:42 Yeah.

Elon Musk 16:43 It's actually, uh, a legally... an actual legal city, Starbase, Texas. Um, it's not that often you hear like, "Hey, we made a city," you know?

Joe Rogan 16:50 (laughs)

Elon Musk 16:50 Um, that used to be like the... Like in, in the old days, like a startup would be you go and gather a bunch of people and say, "Hey, let's go make a town." Literally.

Joe Rogan 16:57 Right.

Elon Musk 16:58 That was like... That would have been startups in, in, in the old days. Um...

Joe Rogan 17:01 Or a country.

Elon Musk 17:02 Yeah, or a country.

Joe Rogan 17:03 Yeah.

Elon Musk 17:03 Yeah, yeah, actually. Um...

Joe Rogan 17:04 If you try doing that today, there'd be a real problem.

Elon Musk 17:07 Yeah, there-

Joe Rogan 17:08 Like maybe something like-

Elon Musk 17:08 There's so much, so much set in stone on the country front these days, more or less.

Joe Rogan 17:10 You might be able to pull it off. You might be able to pull it off. If you got a, a solid island, you might be able to pull it off, you know?

Elon Musk 17:16 I think it's just... Probably, um-

Joe Rogan 17:18 You know, like, like at Larry Ellison owns Lanai.

Elon Musk 17:21 Like making a new country. Yeah, you can probably-

Joe Rogan 17:22 Is this it right here?

Elon Musk 17:23 If you put, if you put enough effort into it, you can make a new country.

Joe Rogan 17:25 This is one of the different ones. This is one of the ones that you catch, right? Or is that one-

Elon Musk 17:29 Yeah, that's the booster. So that's the super heavy booster. Uh, so that's the one with... The booster's got 33 engines. Um, that, that, uh, um... And it's... You know, by, by version four, that will have about 10,000 tons of thrust. Um, you know, right now it's about 7,000, 8,000 tons of thrust. Um, but it's... That's the largest flying object ever made.

Joe Rogan 17:51 I had to explain to someone. They were going, "Why do they blow up all the time if you're so smart?" Because there's this, there's this fucking idiot on television. Some guy was being interviewed and they were talking about you and he goes, "Oh, I think he's a fuckwit." And he goes, "He's a fuckwit?" And he goes, "Why do you say he's a fuck..." "Oh, his rockets keep blowing up." And someone said, "Yeah, well, why do his rockets blow?" And I had to explain.

Elon Musk 18:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:10 Because it's the only way you find out what the tolerances are. You have to-

Elon Musk 18:13 Yes.

Joe Rogan 18:13 You have to... A few of them have to blow up.

Elon Musk 18:14 You have to explore the corners of the box. So, so like... So when you're doing a new r- uh, rocket development program...Um, you- you ha- you have to, uh, do what's called a, uh, you know, exploring the limits, the corners of the box, where you say, it's like you, "Worst case this, worst case that," um, to figure out, um, uh, w- where, where the limits are. So, uh, you, you blow up, you know, not, not ... Admittedly, in the development process, sometimes it blows up accidentally. Um, but, but we intentionally subject it to, uh, uh, you know, a f- a flight regime that is much worse than what we expect in normal flight, so that when we put people on board, or valuable cargo, it doesn't blow up. Um, so, um, so, so for example, for the- the flight that you saw, we, we actually deliberately took, um, heat shield tiles off the, the, the ship, the St- off of Starship, in, in some of the worst locations, to say, "Okay, if we lose a, uh, heat shield tile here, is it, is it catastrophic or is it not?" Um, and we ... Well, nonetheless, uh, Starship was able to do a soft landing, um, in, uh, in the Indian Ocean, just, uh, west of Australia. Um, which is ... And it, and it got there from Texas in, like, I don't know, 35, 40 minutes type of thing. So ...

Joe Rogan 19:24 So it landed even though you put it through this situation where ...

Elon Musk 19:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:28 ... it has compromised shield?

Elon Musk 19:29 It, it, it had an, uh, an, an, an unusually ... We, we, we brought it in hot, like, on, on extra-hot trajectory, uh, with missing tiles, um, to see if it would still make it to a soft landing, which it did. Uh, now (laughs) I should point out, it did, did have ... There were some holes that were burnt into it. Um, but it's, it was robust enough to land despite having some holes burnt in, you know, that, that ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:53 We-

Elon Musk 19:53 'Cause it's coming, it's coming in like a blazing meteor.

Joe Rogan 19:55 Yeah.

Elon Musk 19:55 You can see, you can see the real-time video.

Joe Rogan 19:57 Well, tell me the speed again, because the- well, the speed was bananas. You were talking about the-

Elon Musk 20:00 Yeah, it's like 17,000 miles an hour.

Joe Rogan 20:02 Which is-

Elon Musk 20:03 Or, like, or like 25 times the speed of sound or thereabouts. So, um, the, uh, uh ... So, so think about it like it's, it's like 12 times faster than a bullet from an assault rifle.

Joe Rogan 20:13 (laughs)

Elon Musk 20:14 You know, a bullet from an assault rifle is around mach 2.

Joe Rogan 20:16 And it's this ... And it's huge.

Elon Musk 20:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:19 (laughs)

Elon Musk 20:21 Yeah. Or if, or if you compare it to, like, a bullet from a, um, you know, a 45 or, or nine mil, which is subsonic, that's, you know, it'll be about 30 times faster than a bullet from a handgun.

Joe Rogan 20:32 30 times faster than a bullet from a handgun, and it's the size of a skyscraper.

Elon Musk 20:36 Yes.

Joe Rogan 20:36 (laughs)

Elon Musk 20:39 Yeah. That's fast.

Joe Rogan 20:41 It's so wild. It's so wild-

Elon Musk 20:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:43 ... to see, man. It- it's, uh, it's so exciting. The, the factory's so exciting too because, like, genuinely, no bullshit, I felt like I was witnessing history. I felt like it was a scene in a movie ...

Elon Musk 20:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:56 ... where someone had expectations and they're like, "What are they doing? They're building rockets?" And you go there.

Elon Musk 21:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:01 And as we were walking through, Jamie could talk, speak to this too, didn't you have the feeling where you're like, "Oh, this is way bigger than I thought it was"?

Elon Musk 21:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:09 "This is huge. Awesome."

Elon Musk 21:10 (laughs) Yeah, it's gigantic.

Joe Rogan 21:11 Fucking crazy.

Elon Musk 21:12 That's what she said.

Joe Rogan 21:13 The ... Ah! (laughs)

Elon Musk 21:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:14 The amount of rockets you're making.

Elon Musk 21:17 10, 10 fact. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:17 I mean, I don't know if you can ... (laughs) Giga Chad in the house.

Elon Musk 21:22 (laughs) This is way bigger than I thought it was.

Joe Rogan 21:25 It's a giant metal dick.

Elon Musk 21:26 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:26 You're fucking, fucking the universe with your giant metal dick, that's what it is.

Elon Musk 21:29 Yeah, I mean ...

Joe Rogan 21:30 But it's-

Elon Musk 21:31 But yeah, it is, it is very big.

Joe Rogan 21:32 (clears throat) And the sheer numbers of them that you guys are making. And then this is a version, and you have a new updated version ...

Elon Musk 21:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:40 ... that's coming soon. And what is the difference?

Elon Musk 21:42 Uh, yeah, it's a little, it's a (laughs) it's a little longer. Um ...

Joe Rogan 21:45 More pointy?

Elon Musk 21:46 Uh, same amount of pointy. Um, but the- there's, it's, it's got a bit more length. Um, the in- interstage, you see that, that interstage section with kind of like the grill area?

Joe Rogan 21:56 Mm-hmm.

Elon Musk 21:57 Um, that's, uh, that's now integrated with the boost stage. Um, so, uh, we do, um, what's called hot staging, uh, where we light the ship engines while it's still attached to the booster. So the boost- the booster engines are still thrusting, it's still, it's, it's, uh, you know, it's still being pushed forward by the booster of the ship, uh, but then we light the ship engines and the ship en- engines actually pull away from the booster wh- even though the booster engines are still firing.

Joe Rogan 22:21 Whoa.

Elon Musk 22:22 Um, so it's blasting flame through, uh, that, that grill section but we integrate that grill section into, uh, the boost stage with the next, uh, version of the rocket. Um, and, uh, and the next version of the rocket will have the Raptor 3 engines, which are a, a huge improvement. Um, you may, you may have seen them in the lobby, uh-

Joe Rogan 22:43 Yeah.

Elon Musk 22:43 ... 'cause we got like, the Raptor 1, 2 and 3, and you can see the dramatic improvement in simplicity. Um, we should probably put a plaque there to also show how much the, we reduced the weight, uh, the cost, and the-

Joe Rogan 22:55 (laughs)

Elon Musk 22:55 And improved the efficiency and the, uh, thrust. So the Raptor 3, uh, has, uh, you know, almost twice the thrust of Raptor, Raptor 1.

Joe Rogan 23:06 Wow.

Elon Musk 23:07 So you see Raptor 3 looks like, it looks like it's got parts missing, right?

Joe Rogan 23:12 And how many of them-

Elon Musk 23:13 And so it's very, very clean.

Joe Rogan 23:14 How many of them are on the rocket?

Elon Musk 23:15 Um, there's 33 on the, on the booster.

Joe Rogan 23:19 Whoa.

Elon Musk 23:20 Um, and, and e- each of ... Each Raptor engine is producing twice as much thrust as all four engines on a 747.

Joe Rogan 23:30 Wow.

Elon Musk 23:32 So it- that engine is smaller than a 747 engine, but it's producing, you know, um, you know, almost 10 times the thrust of a 747 engine.

Joe Rogan 23:43 Wow.

Elon Musk 23:43 Um, so extremely high power to weight ratio. Um, and, um ...

Joe Rogan 23:49 And so when-

Elon Musk 23:50 There's 33 of them.

Joe Rogan 23:50 You d- when you ... So when you're designing these, you get to Raptor 1.

Elon Musk 23:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:54 You see its efficiency, you see where you can improve it, you get to Raptor 2. How many ... How far can you scale this up with just the same sort of technology, with propellant and ignition and engines? Like, how much further can you ...

Elon Musk 24:08 We're, we're pushing the limits of physics here. Um, so, um ... And, and really, in order to, to make a, a fully reusable orbital rocket, which no one has succeeded in doing, uh, yet, including, incl- including us. Um, but, but-... uh, Starship is the first time that there is a design for a rocket where f- where full and rapid reusability is actually possible. So it was not... There's not, there's not even been a design before where it was possible. Certainly not a design that, that, that got made any hardware at all. Um, w- just, we just, we just live, we live on a planet, uh, where the gravity, uh, is, is, is quite high. Like, Earth's gravity is pr- quite, really, quite, quite high. Um, um, and if, if the gravity was even 10 or 20%, uh, higher, uh, we'd be stuck on Earth forever.

Joe Rogan 25:01 Really?

Elon Musk 25:01 Um, like, we, we, yeah. We could not use con- certainly couldn't use conventional rockets. You'd have to, like, blow yourself off the surface with, like, a nuclear bomb or something crazy.

Joe Rogan 25:07 (laughs)

Elon Musk 25:08 Um, so, uh, but o- o- on the other hand, if, if Earth's gravity was just a little lower, like even 10, 20% lower, it would... Then, uh, getting to orbit would be easy. So it's like, it's like, it's like this, if this was a video game, it's set to, like, maximum difficulty, but not impossible.

Joe Rogan 25:25 Okay.

Elon Musk 25:25 Um, so that's, that's where we have, um, here. So, it- it's not as though, um, others have, uh, ignored the concept of reusability. They've just, uh, concluded that it was too difficult to achieve. Uh, and we've been working at, on, on this for a long time, uh, at, at SpaceX. Um, and, um, you know, I'm the, uh, chief engineer of the company. Um, although I should say that, that, uh, you know, we have an ex- extremely talented, uh, engineering team. I think we've got the best, uh, rocket engineering team that has ever been assembled. Um, uh, it's, uh, it's an honor to work with such, such incredible people. Um, so, uh, so, so it's fair to say that, uh, you know, we, we have not yet succeeded in creating, in achieving full reusability. But we at last have a rocket, uh, where full reusability is possible. Um, and I think, I think we'll achieve it next year. So, um, uh, that's, uh, that's a really big deal. Uh, the reason, the reason that's, that's such a big deal is that full reusability, um, uh, drops the cost of access to space by 100. Um, may- may- maybe even more than 100, actually. So it could, could be, like, 1,000. The... You can think about, like, any mode of transport. Like, imagine if aircraft were, were not reusable. Like, you flew somewhere, you have to throw the plane back. Li- like, imagine if... Like, the way, the way conventional rockets work is it would be like if you had an airplane and, and, and instead of landing at your destination, you parachute out, um, and the plane crashes somewhere.

Joe Rogan 27:01 (laughs)

Elon Musk 27:01 And you landed your dest- and you, and you landed parachuted to your des- destination. Now, that would be a very expensive trip.

Joe Rogan 27:07 (laughs)

Narrator 27:08 (laughs)

Elon Musk 27:09 And you, and you'd need another plane to get back. Okay? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:12 (laughs)

Narrator 27:12 (laughs)

Elon Musk 27:12 Um, but that's how the other rockets in the world work. Um, now the SpaceX Falcon rocket is the only one that is, is that's, uh, that is at least mostly reusable. You've seen, you've seen the Falcon rocket, you know, land. Uh, we've now done over 500 landings of the SpaceX rocket, of the, of the Falcon 9 rocket. Um, and, um, and, and this year, um, you know, we'll, we'll deliver pr- probably, I don't know, somewhere between 2,200 and 2,500 tons to orbit, um, with, with the Falcon 9, uh, Falcon Heavy rockets. Uh, not counting anything from, from Starship. Um-

Joe Rogan 27:51 And this is mostly Starlink?

Elon Musk 27:54 Yes. Mostly Starlink. But we launch, uh, many other... We, we, we even launch our competitors on, um, competitors to Starlink on, on Falcon 9. We charge them the same price. Pretty fair. Um, uh, but, uh, SpaceX this year will deliver, um, roughly 90% of all Earth mass to orbit.

Joe Rogan 28:11 Wow.

Elon Musk 28:11 Um, and then of the remaining 10%, um, most of that is done by China. And then the, then the remaining, I don't know, roughly 4% is, uh, everyone else in the world, including our, our American- uh, domestic competitors.

Joe Rogan 28:25 You know, um, it- it's kind of incredible how many things are in space. Like, how many things are floating above us now.

Elon Musk 28:32 There's a lot of things. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:34 Like, there... Is there a sat-

Elon Musk 28:35 Space is big though.

Joe Rogan 28:35 Right.

Elon Musk 28:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:37 But is there a saturation point where we're gonna have problems with all these different satellites that are...

Elon Musk 28:43 Um, I think yes. A- as long as the satellites are, um, maintained, uh, there's, there, it'll be fine. There's, it's... Space is very roomy. Um-

Joe Rogan 28:53 (laughs)

Elon Musk 28:53 It's- it's... Like, you can think of, um, like, space as being concentric shells of the surface of the Earth. So, um, you know, the- there's, there's... It's the surface of the Earth, but, but there's... It's a series of-

Joe Rogan 29:06 It's much larger. Yeah.

Elon Musk 29:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:07 Expansive.

Elon Musk 29:07 It's like a series of concentric shells.

Joe Rogan 29:08 Yeah.

Elon Musk 29:08 Um...

Joe Rogan 29:09 And think of an Airstream trailer flying around up there. There's a lot of room for Airstreams.

Elon Musk 29:14 Yeah. I mean, imagine, yeah, if, if there were just a few thousand Airstreams, um, on-

Joe Rogan 29:18 On Earth.

Elon Musk 29:19 ... on Earth.

Joe Rogan 29:19 Yeah.

Elon Musk 29:19 What are the odds that they'd hit each other, you know?

Joe Rogan 29:20 They wouldn't be very crowded.

Elon Musk 29:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:22 You know? And then you got to go bigger...

Elon Musk 29:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:24 Because you're dealing with far above Earth, hundreds of miles above Earth.

Elon Musk 29:28 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:29 Yeah.

Elon Musk 29:29 Yeah, so it's... The, um... But the, the, the goal of SpaceX is to get, uh, rocket technology to the point where we can extend life beyond Earth, and that we can establish a self-sustaining city on Mars, uh, a permanent base on the moon. That would be very cool. I mean, imagine if we had like a, you know, moon base alpha where there was like a permanent science base on the moon.

Joe Rogan 29:49 That would be pretty dope or-

Elon Musk 29:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:50 ... at least a tourist trap.

Elon Musk 29:52 I mean...

Joe Rogan 29:54 A lot of people would be willing to go to the moon for... Just for a tour.

Elon Musk 29:57 That's for sure.

Joe Rogan 29:58 To be... Just to look back.

Elon Musk 29:59 I mean, we could probably pay for our space program with that, you know?

Joe Rogan 30:00 Probably, yeah. Well, resources.

Elon Musk 30:02 'Cause it's like if, if you, if you could go to the moon with... And, and safely, uh, I think we'd get a lot of people, uh, would, would, would pay for that, you know?

Joe Rogan 30:12 Oh, 100%.

Elon Musk 30:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:13 After the first year, after nobody died for like a year.

Elon Musk 30:16 Yeah, yeah. Just to make sure (laughs) . Exactly.

Joe Rogan 30:17 (laughs) It's-

Elon Musk 30:17 Are you gonna come back, you know?

Joe Rogan 30:18 Because like that submarine, they, they had a bunch of successful launches in that private submarine before it imploded-

Elon Musk 30:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:25 ... and killed everybody.

Elon Musk 30:26 ... that was not a good design, obviously.

Joe Rogan 30:28 It was a very bad design.

Elon Musk 30:28 Terrible design.

Joe Rogan 30:29 And the engineer said it would not withstand the pressure of those depths.

Elon Musk 30:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:33 Like, there was a lot of whistleblowers in that company too.

Elon Musk 30:36 Yeah. Um, they, they, they made that out of, uh, carbon fiber, which is, it doesn't make any sense because, um, you actually need, you need to be dense to go down. Um, in any case, just make it out of steel. If you make it out of, uh, sort of just, you know, a, a big steel casting, that's, that's, you'll, you'll be safe and nothing will ha-

Joe Rogan 30:55 Why would they make it out of carbon fiber then? Is it cheaper?

Elon Musk 30:58 Um, I think they think carbon fiber sounds cool or something, but, um-

Joe Rogan 31:00 It does sound cool.

Elon Musk 31:01 It, it sounds cool, but, um, uh, because it's such, it's such low density, you actually, actually have to add extra mass to go down because it's l- it's low density. But if you just have a giant, you know, hollow ball bearing, uh, you're gonna be fine. Um-

Joe Rogan 31:15 Speaking of carbon fiber, did you check out my unplugged Tesla out there?

Elon Musk 31:18 Yeah, it's cool.

Joe Rogan 31:19 Pretty sick, right?

Elon Musk 31:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:20 Yeah. Have you guys ever thought about doing something like that? Like having like an AMG division of Tesla where you do like custom stuff?

Elon Musk 31:28 Um, I think it's best to le- leave that to the custom shops. Uh, you know, we're, we're, we're, like, like, Tesla's focus is autonomous cars, um, you know, building kind of futuristic autonomous cars. Um, so, um, li- like, I think it's, we, we want the future to look like the future. Um, so the, uh, d- like, did you see like s- our designs for like the sort of the robotic bus?

Joe Rogan 31:58 No.

Elon Musk 31:58 Uh, it looks pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 32:00 The robotic bus? It's supposed to be-

Elon Musk 32:01 Yeah, the ro-

Joe Rogan 32:01 ... totally autonomous bus?

Elon Musk 32:02 We ne- we didn't actually figure out the good name for it, like, I think the, we called it the robot bus or I don't... it's no good. There's like... what do you call this thing? But it looks, it looks cool. It's, it's very art deco. It's, it's like, it's like futuristic art deco. Um, and, um, it, it does, it, like, I think we, we want to change the aesthetic over time. You don't want the aesthetic to be constant over time. You wanna e- evolve the aesthetic. Um, so, um, you know, like, my, uh, like, I have a son who's, who's like, you know, he's, he's, he's like even more autistic than me. And, um, and, uh, but he's, he has these great observations.

Joe Rogan 32:39 Who is this?

Elon Musk 32:40 Saxon. He has these great observations on the world, uh, because his, his, he just views the world through a different lens, uh, than, than most people. Um, and he's like, "Dad, why does the world look like it's 2015?"

Joe Rogan 32:53 (laughs)

Elon Musk 32:55 (laughs) And I'm like, "Damn, the world does look like it's 2015." Like, the aesthetic has not evolved since 2015.

Joe Rogan 33:00 Whoa. That's what it looks like?

Elon Musk 33:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:02 Oh, wow.

Elon Musk 33:03 That's pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 33:04 Oh, yeah. That's like... what is-

Elon Musk 33:05 Like, you'd wanna see that going down the road, you know?

Joe Rogan 33:07 Yeah.

Elon Musk 33:07 You, you'd be like, "Okay, this is... we're in the future." You know? It doesn't look like 2015.

Joe Rogan 33:12 What is that ancient-

Elon Musk 33:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:13 ... science fiction movie, like one of the first science fiction movies ever? Is it Metropolis? Is that what it is?

Elon Musk 33:17 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:18 Yeah. That looks like it belongs in Metropolis.

Elon Musk 33:20 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:21 Yeah.

Elon Musk 33:21 It, it's a futuristic art deco.

Joe Rogan 33:22 Oh. All right. Yeah. Well, that's cool that you're concentrating on the aesthe- I mean, that's kind of the whole deal with Cybertruck, right? Like, it didn't have to look like that.

Elon Musk 33:31 No. It, it, I just wanted to have something that looked really different.

Joe Rogan 33:35 Is it a pain in the ass-

Elon Musk 33:36 Um-

Joe Rogan 33:36 ... for people to get it insured because it's all solid steel and-

Elon Musk 33:40 Um, I hope it's not too much. I, I... you know-

Joe Rogan 33:41 (laughs)

Elon Musk 33:41 ... Tesla does offer insurance, so people can always-

Joe Rogan 33:43 Oh.

Elon Musk 33:44 ... get it, get it insured at Tesla. Um, well, but the, the, the, like, it, it is... the form does follow function in the case of the Cybertruck because, um, as you demonstrated with, with your armor-piercing arrow-

Joe Rogan 33:55 (laughs)

Elon Musk 33:56 ... um, because if you shot that arrow at a regular truck, I mean, it would go-

Joe Rogan 33:58 It would go right through it. (laughs)

Elon Musk 33:59 (laughs) Yeah. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 34:00 Right through it.

Elon Musk 34:00 You would have found your arrow in the wall.

Joe Rogan 34:02 Yeah.

Elon Musk 34:02 Um, you know? Uh, it would go through-

Joe Rogan 34:04 At the very least, it would have buried into one of the seats.

Elon Musk 34:06 Yeah, yeah. It's, it's-

Joe Rogan 34:06 Yeah.

Elon Musk 34:07 ... but like you could, you, you could definitely make it, uh, get enough of a bow velocity and, and, and the right, the right arrow would go through both doors of a regular truck and, and, and land on the wall.

Joe Rogan 34:17 Yeah.

Elon Musk 34:17 You know?

Joe Rogan 34:18 If there was a clear shot-

Elon Musk 34:18 Um-

Joe Rogan 34:18 ... between both doors, it probably would have passed right through.

Elon Musk 34:21 Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 34:22 Yeah.

Elon Musk 34:22 Um, but, but it... you know, the, the, the arrow shattered on the Cybertruck 'cause it's, it's ultra-hard, uh, stainless.

Joe Rogan 34:27 Mm-hmm.

Elon Musk 34:28 Um, so, um, and I thought it'd be... it, it, I thought it'd be cool to have a, a, a, you know, a truck that is bulletproof to a subsonic projectile. Um, so, um, you know, especially in this day and age, you know, like as if, as a, if, if the apocalypse happens, you're gonna want to have a bulletproof truck, you know? Um, so, so then because it, because it's made of ultra-hard stainless, it's... you can't just stamp the, the panels. Like, you can't just put it in a stamping press because it breaks the press. So y- so in order to actually... so it has to, has to be plainer, um, because it's so difficult to bend. It... because it breaks the machine that bends it. Um, that's why, that's why it's, it's, it's pl- it's so plainer and, and it's not, uh, you know... it's, it's 'cause it's bulletproof steel is the, is-

Joe Rogan 35:18 Right.

Elon Musk 35:18 ... the-

Joe Rogan 35:18 So it is like boxy as opposed to like curved and-

Elon Musk 35:22 Yeah. You just... in order to make, in order to make like the curved shapes, you, you, you take, you take, uh, uh, basically mild steel, like, um, annealed st- thin an- thin annealed... uh, in a regular truck or car, the, you take, you take mild, thin annealed steel, you put it in a stamping press and it just smo- it just smooshes it and makes it whatever the shape, whatever shape you want. But the Cybertruck is made, made of ultra-hard stainless. Um, and, and it... and, and so you can't stamp it, uh, because it would break the stamping press. So it, it... even bending it is hard. So to even to bend it to, uh, its current position, we have to way over-bend it, um, and, and so it gets... so that when it springs back, it's in, in the right position. Um, so it's, uh... I don't know. Like I, I think if, if you wanna... like, I, I think it's, it's, it's a unique aesthetic. Um, and you say, "Well, what's cool about a truck?" Trucks are m- trucks are like, should be, I don't know, manly. They should be macho, you know? And, uh, bulletproof is maximum macho.

Joe Rogan 36:26 (laughs)

Elon Musk 36:26 Quieres más macho.

Joe Rogan 36:27 Are you-

Elon Musk 36:28 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:28 ... married to that shape now? Like, is it... can you do anything to change it? Like, as you get further... like, I know you guys updated the 3 and the Y. Did you update the Y as well?

Elon Musk 36:38 Yes. The, the, the-

Joe Rogan 36:39 They look different?

Elon Musk 36:39 ... 3 and the Y, uh, are updated. Um, you know, there's like a, um...... there's, there's a, a screen in the back for the ki-... that the kids can watch, for example, in, in the new 3 and Y, um, uh, so the n- in the new Y. Um, there's, you know, it's, it's a... there's, there's, there's like, hundreds of improvements, like, we keep improving the car. Um, and even the Cybertruck, we, you know, keep improving it. Um, but, um, you know, I wanted to just do something that w- that looked unique, and, and the Cybertruck looks unique, and has unique functionality. And I... there, there were three things where I was aiming for, it's like, let's make it bulletproof, uh, let's, uh, make it faster than a Porsche 911, uh, and we actually cleared the quarter mile. The Cybertruck, the, the, uh, can, uh, clear a quarter mile while towing a Porsche 911 faster than a Porsche 911.

Joe Rogan 37:36 (laughs)

Elon Musk 37:38 Um, it can out-tow an F350 diesel.

Joe Rogan 37:43 Really?

Elon Musk 37:44 Yes.

Joe Rogan 37:44 What is the tow limitations?

Elon Musk 37:47 I mean, we could tow, like, a, a, you know, a 747 in that, with the Cybertruck. The Cybertruck is an insanely str-... like, it is an, it is alien technology, okay? Um, 'cause it, it shouldn't be possible to be, uh, that big and that fast. Uh, like that doesn't... it's like an elephant that runs as, as... like a cheetah.

Joe Rogan 38:08 Yeah, because it's zero to 60 in less than three seconds, right?

Elon Musk 38:11 Yes.

Joe Rogan 38:11 Yeah, and it's enormous.

Elon Musk 38:13 Yes.

Joe Rogan 38:13 What does it weigh, like, 7,000 pounds?

Elon Musk 38:15 Uh, yeah. There's the different configurations, but it's about that. Uh, it's a beast.

Joe Rogan 38:21 Yeah.

Elon Musk 38:22 Um, so... and it's, and it's got, it's got, uh, four-wheel steering, so the, the rear wheels steer too, so it's got a, it's got a very tight turning radius.

Joe Rogan 38:32 Yeah, we noticed that, we-

Elon Musk 38:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:33 ... when we drove one to Starbase.

Elon Musk 38:35 Yeah, very tight turning radius.

Joe Rogan 38:36 Yeah, pretty sick.

Elon Musk 38:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:37 Are you still doing the Roadster?

Elon Musk 38:41 Yes.

Joe Rogan 38:42 Eventually?

Elon Musk 38:44 Um, we're getting close to demonstrating the prototype.

Joe Rogan 38:50 Like, how close?

Elon Musk 38:50 And I think this will be... I, I, I, I... one thing I can guarantee is that this product demo will be unforgettable. Unforgettable.

Joe Rogan 39:03 How so?

Elon Musk 39:07 It... whether it's good or bad (laughs) it will be unforgettable. Um...

Joe Rogan 39:15 Can you say more? What do you mean?

Elon Musk 39:18 Well, you know, my friend Peter Thiel, um, you know, uh, o- once reflected that, uh, the s- the future was supposed to have flying cars, but we don't have flying cars.

Joe Rogan 39:30 So you gonna be able to fly?

Elon Musk 39:31 Well, I... I mean, uh, I think if Peter wants a flying car, we should, he should be able to buy one.

Joe Rogan 39:42 So you... are you actively considering making an electric flying car? Is this like a real thing?

Elon Musk 39:48 Well, we have to see in the-

Joe Rogan 39:50 In the demo?

Elon Musk 39:50 ... when we do it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:50 So when you do this, like... (laughs) are, are you gonna have a retractable wing? Like, what is the idea behind this? Don't be sly. Come on. Tell us.

Elon Musk 40:02 I, I, I can't, I can't, uh, do the unveil before the unveil, um, but, um...

Joe Rogan 40:08 Tell me off-air, then.

Elon Musk 40:10 I, I, I th- it ha- look, I, I think it has a shot at being the most memorable, um, product unveil ever. It has a shot.

Joe Rogan 40:24 (laughs)

Elon Musk 40:24 Uh...

Joe Rogan 40:24 And when do you plan on doing this? What's the goal?

Elon Musk 40:28 Uh, hopefully before the end of the year.

Joe Rogan 40:31 Really?

Elon Musk 40:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:32 Before the end of this year? This is... I mean, we're almost November 1st.

Elon Musk 40:35 Yeah, like, in a couple months. Hopefully in a couple months. Um, you know, we need to make sure that it works. Uh, like, this is some crazy, crazy technology we've got in this car. Crazy technology. Crazy, crazy.

Joe Rogan 40:54 So-

Elon Musk 40:55 Um...

Joe Rogan 40:55 ... different than what was previously announced and-

Elon Musk 41:00 Yes.

Joe Rogan 41:01 And is that why you haven't released it yet, 'cause you keep fucking with it?

Elon Musk 41:06 It has crazy technology.

Joe Rogan 41:07 Okay.

Elon Musk 41:08 I- i- i- like, is it even a car? I'm not sure it's... like, it looks like a car. Let's just put it this way, it's crazier than anything James Bond... if you took all the James Bond cars and combined them, it's crazier than that.

Joe Rogan 41:27 Oh, very exciting.

Elon Musk 41:30 Yes.

Joe Rogan 41:30 I don't know what to think of that.

Elon Musk 41:31 Is it even a car? I don't know.

Joe Rogan 41:32 Because it's limited amount of information I'm drawing from here. Jamie's very suspicious over there. Look at him. (laughs) Excited.

Elon Musk 41:39 I'm interested.

Joe Rogan 41:41 (laughs) It's still gonna be the same-

Elon Musk 41:41 Well, you know what? I mean, if, if you wanna, if you wanna come a little before the, uh, the unveil, I can show it to you.

Joe Rogan 41:46 100%. Yeah.

Elon Musk 41:47 Yeah, sure, yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:47 Let's go.

Elon Musk 41:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:49 Yeah. Um, it's, uh, it's kinda crazy all the different things that you're involved in simultaneously, and, you know, we talked about this before, your time management, but I, I really don't understand it. I don't understand how you can be paying attention to all of these different things simultaneously, Starlink, SpaceX, Tesla, Boring Company, X, you Tw-... you, you fucking tweet, or post rather, all day long.

Elon Musk 42:17 Well-

Joe Rogan 42:17 It's like-

Elon Musk 42:17 ... it's more like I'm... I'm... I could hop in for, like, two minutes and then hop out, you know?

Joe Rogan 42:21 Yeah. But I mean, just the fact that you can do that-

Elon Musk 42:22 Um, bathroom break, whatever, you know? Um...

Joe Rogan 42:24 I can't do that.

Elon Musk 42:25 Um...

Joe Rogan 42:26 If I hop in, I start scrolling, and I start looking around, next thing you know, I've lost an hour.

Elon Musk 42:30 Yeah. Um, so... no, it's... for me, it's, it's a couple minutes' time, usually. It's once in a while... sometimes, I guess, half an hour, but usually I'm, I'm, I'm in for a few minutes, then out of, of, you know, posting something on X. Uh, (laughs) you know, it's, it's... I do sometimes feel like it's sometimes like-... that, that meme of the guy who's like, who drops the grenade and leaves the room. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:53 (laughs)

Elon Musk 42:53 That's been me more than once on, on X. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:56 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. Um, it's gotta be fun though. It's gotta be fun to know that you essentially disrupted the entire social media chain of command-

Elon Musk 43:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:10 ... because there was a, there was a very clear thing that was going on with social media.

Elon Musk 43:14 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:14 The government had infiltrated it. They were-

Elon Musk 43:17 Yeah, it was crazy.

Joe Rogan 43:17 ... censoring speech. And until you bought it, we really didn't know the extent of it. We kind of assumed that there was something going on.

Elon Musk 43:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:23 We had no idea that they were actively involved in censoring actual real news stories, real data, real scientists, real professors silenced, expelled, kicked off the platform.

Elon Musk 43:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:36 Wild.

Elon Musk 43:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:37 Yeah.

Elon Musk 43:38 For telling the truth.

Joe Rogan 43:39 For telling the truth.

Elon Musk 43:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:40 And I, I'm sure you've also... Like, and I... 'cause I sent it to you, that chart that shows, uh, young kids, teenagers identifying as trans as, and non-binary.

Elon Musk 43:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 43:49 Literally stops dead when you bought Twitter-

Elon Musk 43:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:52 ... and starts falling off a cliff when people are allowed to have rational discussions now-

Elon Musk 43:56 Yes.

Joe Rogan 43:56 ... and actually talk about it.

Elon Musk 43:58 Yes.

Joe Rogan 43:58 Yeah.

Elon Musk 43:59 Um, yeah. I mean, I, I said at the time, like, I think that, like, it's... The, the, like, the reason for acquiring Twitter is because, um, it was, it, it was cau... Uh, it, it was causing destruction at a civilizational level. Um, it was, um... I mean, I posted, I tweeted on, uh, at, on Twitter at the time that, um, it, it is, um, you know, it's, it's, it's, uh, Wormtongue for the world. Um, you know, like Wormtongue from Lord of the Rings, uh, where he would just sort of, like, whisper these, you know, terrible things to the king so the king would believe these things that were- weren't true. Um, and, and, um, unfortunately, uh, T- Twitter really got... It got ca- it... Like, the, the, the, the woke mob, essentially, they c- controlled Twitter. Um, and they were pushing, uh, a nihilistic, anti-civilizational mind virus to the world. Um, and you can see the results of that mind virus on the streets of San Francisco, uh, where, where, you know, downtown San Francisco looks like a zombie apocalypse. Um, you know, it's, it's bad. Um, so we don't want the whole world to be a zombie apocalypse. Um, but that's, uh, that, that, that, that was essentially a... They were pushing this very negative, nihilistic, untrue worldview on the world, and it was causing a lot of damage. Um, so-

Joe Rogan 45:30 The stunning thing about it is how few people course corrected. A bu- a bunch of people woke up and realized what was going on, people that were all on board with, like, woke ideology in maybe 2015 or '16-

Elon Musk 45:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:41 ... and then, and then eventually, it comes to affect them, or they see it in their workplace, or they see it... And they're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, we gotta stop this," a bunch of people did-

Elon Musk 45:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 45:48 ... but a lot of people never course corrected.

Elon Musk 45:52 Yeah, um, a lot of peo- a lot of people didn't course correct, but, um, but it, it's gone directionally in... It's gone dir- it's, it's directionally correct, like y- you mentioned, like the, like the massive spike in, in kids identifying as trans and then that, that sp- that spike dropping, um, after the, the Twitter acquisition. I think that, um, s- simply allowing the truth to be told, um, was th- just shedding sun... Sunlight is the best disinfectant, as they say, and, uh, just allowing sunlight, um, kills the virus.

Joe Rogan 46:24 And it also changed the benchmark for all the other platforms.

Elon Musk 46:28 Yes.

Joe Rogan 46:29 You can't just openly censor people on all the other platforms-

Elon Musk 46:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:32 ... when X is available. So, everybody else had to... So, like, Facebook announced-

Elon Musk 46:36 Yes.

Joe Rogan 46:36 ... they were changing. YouTube announced they were changing their policies.

Elon Musk 46:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:40 And they were kind of forced to.

Elon Musk 46:41 Yeah, and then I...

Joe Rogan 46:41 And then Blue Sky doubled down. (laughs)

Elon Musk 46:44 Well, li- like, the problem is, like, if-

Joe Rogan 46:46 (laughs)

Elon Musk 46:47 ... uh, essentially, the woke mind virus re- retreated to Woke, to, to Blue Sky.

Joe Rogan 46:51 Yeah.

Elon Musk 46:52 Um, but it's w- where they're just a self-reinforcing lunatic asylum.

Joe Rogan 46:56 They're all just triple masked.

Elon Musk 46:58 (laughs) Yeah, uh, totally.

Joe Rogan 46:59 I, I was, I was watching this in exchange on, uh, Blue Sky, where someone said that they're just trying to be zen about something-

Elon Musk 47:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:06 ... and then someone, a moderator immediately chimed in and said, "Uh, why don't you try to stop being racist against Asians," by saying something zen, by saying, "I'm trying to be zen about something."

Elon Musk 47:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:18 They were accusing that person of being racist towards Asians.

Elon Musk 47:21 Yeah. It, it's ju-

Joe Rogan 47:22 (laughs)

Elon Musk 47:22 ... it's just, it's just everyone's a hall monitor over there.

Joe Rogan 47:25 (laughs)

Elon Musk 47:25 So...

Joe Rogan 47:25 The worst hall monitor-

Elon Musk 47:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:27 ... a virgin, like, incel.

Elon Musk 47:30 They, they're all hall monitors-

Joe Rogan 47:31 Yeah.

Elon Musk 47:31 ... trying to rat on each other.

Joe Rogan 47:33 Yeah.

Elon Musk 47:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:33 It's fascinating. And then people say, "I'm leaving for Blue Sky," like Stephen King, and then a couple weeks later is back on X.

Elon Musk 47:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:40 Just like, "Fuck it." It's, there's no one over there. It's all a bunch of crazy people.

Elon Musk 47:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:43 You can only stay at the asylum for so long.

Elon Musk 47:46 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 47:46 You're like, "All right, this, this is not good."

Elon Musk 47:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:48 They all bail.

Elon Musk 47:50 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:50 And Threads is kind of like that too. Threads is nuts.

Elon Musk 47:53 I- I- I- I'm, I've, I've been on Threads. Is, is it...

Joe Rogan 47:55 Well, what happens is, if you go on Instagram, every now and then-

Elon Musk 47:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:59 ... a little something really stupid will pop up on Threads, like, "What the fuck?"

Elon Musk 48:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:02 And it shows it to you on Instagram-

Elon Musk 48:04 Okay.

Joe Rogan 48:04 ... and then I'll click on that, and then I'll go to Threads, and it's like... You see posts with, like, 25 likes, like, famous people.

Elon Musk 48:11 Okay.

Joe Rogan 48:12 Like, 50 li-... It's, it's a ghost town.

Elon Musk 48:14 Like, no one's... Ghost town, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:14 But the people that post on there, th- are, they're finding that there's very little pushback from insane ideology-

Elon Musk 48:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:20 ... so they go there and they spit out nonsense, and very few people jump in to argue.

Elon Musk 48:27 Yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 48:28 Very weird, very weird place.

Elon Musk 48:29 I mean, I can generally get the vibe of, like, what's taking off by seeing what's showing up on X, 'cause that's the public town square still.

Joe Rogan 48:35 Right.

Elon Musk 48:36 Um, and, uh, or, or, uh, you know, what, what links show up in group texts, you know, if I'm in group chats-

Joe Rogan 48:42 Right.

Elon Musk 48:42 ... with friends, like, where, where the, what, what links are showing up.

Joe Rogan 48:45 That's what I try to do now-

Elon Musk 48:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:46 ... only get stuff that shows up in my group text.

Elon Musk 48:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:49 Because that keeps me productive. So I only check if someone's like, "Dude, what the fuck?" Or, like, "All right, what the fuck?"

Elon Musk 48:54 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:54 "Let me check it out."

Elon Musk 48:55 Exactly. If, if it's something that's-

Joe Rogan 48:56 "Let me see what's going on."

Elon Musk 48:56 ... crazy enough, your frie- y- your f- it'll, it'll end with the group chat.

Joe Rogan 48:59 But there's always something. That's what's nuts. There's always some new law that's passed, some new insane thing that California's doing.

Elon Musk 49:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:07 And it's like, uh, uh, like a giant chunk of it's happening in California, the most preposterous things that I get.

Elon Musk 49:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:14 And then you got-

Elon Musk 49:15 ... California crazy.

Joe Rogan 49:15 ... Gavin Newsom, who's running around saying we all have California derangement syndrome. He's just like ripping off Trump derangement and calling it California derangement. It's like no, no, no. No, no, no.

Elon Musk 49:25 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:25 The- you- the fucking... How many corporations have left California?

Elon Musk 49:29 It's crazy though.

Joe Rogan 49:29 Hundreds.

Elon Musk 49:30 Yes, hundreds.

Joe Rogan 49:30 Right? Hundreds.

Elon Musk 49:31 Yes.

Joe Rogan 49:32 That's not good.

Elon Musk 49:32 Chick- I mean, not Chick-fil-A. I mean, uh, I think In-N-Out left.

Joe Rogan 49:36 Yeah, In-N-Out left. They moved to Tennessee.

Elon Musk 49:38 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:38 Yeah.

Elon Musk 49:39 Um...

Joe Rogan 49:39 They're like, "We can't do this anymore." (laughs)

Elon Musk 49:41 Right. A- and like-

Joe Rogan 49:42 It's the California company for food.

Elon Musk 49:44 Yes.

Joe Rogan 49:44 It's like the greatest hamburger place ever.

Elon Musk 49:46 It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 49:47 Yeah.

Elon Musk 49:47 Yeah, I've not actually... Like, speaking of like, like just sort of open source and like looking at things openly, like you, I just like going to the In-N-Out and seeing them make the burger.

Joe Rogan 49:55 Yeah, it's right there.

Elon Musk 49:56 Uh, they chop the onions and they, uh, they, you know, it's... You just see everything getting made in front of you.

Joe Rogan 50:01 Yeah.

Elon Musk 50:02 It's great. Um, but yeah, (laughs) like, I like, it should be... Like how many wake-up calls do you need to say there needs to be reform in California, you know?

Joe Rogan 50:09 Well, the crazy thing that Newsom does-

Elon Musk 50:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:11 ... is whenever someone brings up the problems with California, he starts rattling off all the positives, "The most Fortune 500 companies, highest education-"

Elon Musk 50:19 For now.

Joe Rogan 50:19 ... is, is... But yeah, that was all already there-

Elon Musk 50:23 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 50:23 ... before you were governor.

Elon Musk 50:24 But the, but, but how many Fortune 500 companies have left California?

Joe Rogan 50:28 Right, and then-

Elon Musk 50:29 Um...

Joe Rogan 50:29 ... you guys spent $24 billion on the homeless and it got way worse.

Elon Musk 50:33 Yes. I think the homeless population doubled or something. Like, but it, like, people don't understand, like the homeless thing, 'cause it, it sort of preys on people's empathy. And I, I think we should have empathy, um, and we should try to help people. Um, but the, the, the, uh, the homeless industrial complex is, is really, it's, it's, it's dark, man. Um, it, it should be... That, that, that, that, that network of NGOs should be called like the drug zombie farmers, um, because they, they... The, the more homeless people and, and, and really, like when you, when you meet like, you know, somebody who's like totally dead inside, shuffling along down the street with a, with a needle dang- dangling out of their leg, you... Homeless is the wrong word. Like the, homeless implies that somebody got a little behind on their mortgage payments and if they just got a job offer, they'd be back on their feet. But someone who's... I mean, you see these videos of people that are just shuffling, you know, they're on fentanyl.

Joe Rogan 51:27 Yeah.

Elon Musk 51:27 They're, they're like, you know, taking a dump in the middle of the street-

Joe Rogan 51:31 Yeah.

Elon Musk 51:31 ... you know, with... And, and, and they got like open sores and stuff. They're, they're not like one job offer away from getting back on their feet.

Joe Rogan 51:38 Right, this is not a homeless issue.

Elon Musk 51:40 Homeless is, it's, it's, it's a propaganda word.

Joe Rogan 51:42 Yeah, right.

Elon Musk 51:42 Um, so... And, and then the, the, the, the, you know, these sort of "charities" are, uh, of course, are... They, they get money proportionate to the number of homeless people or, or, or number of drug zombies.

Joe Rogan 51:57 Right.

Elon Musk 51:57 So their incentive structure is to maximize the number of drug zombies, not minimize it.

Joe Rogan 52:03 Right.

Elon Musk 52:03 Um, that's why they don't arrest the drug dealers, 'cause if they arrest the drug dealers, the drug zombies leave. So they know who the drug dealers are. They don't arrest them on purpose, uh, because otherwise the drug zombies would leave and they would, they would stop getting money from the State of California and from, from all the charities.

Joe Rogan 52:23 Wait a minute. So you're saying they-

Elon Musk 52:24 Yeah, it's, it's dark, man.

Joe Rogan 52:25 So they're in coordination. Is that real?

Elon Musk 52:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:26 So they're in coordination with law enforcement on this?

Elon Musk 52:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:30 So how do they... How do they have those meetings?

Elon Musk 52:32 They're all in cahoots.

Joe Rogan 52:34 Well, the... When you find this-

Elon Musk 52:35 It's, it's... It's like such... It's, it's... This is a diabolical scam. Um, so, uh, and, and San Francisco's got this tax, this gross receipts tax, uh, which, which, um, it's not even on revenues, on all transactions, which is why Stripe, um, and Square had... and, and, and a whole bunch of financial companies had to move out of San Francisco because it wasn't a tax on revenues, it's a tax on transactions. So if you, if you do like, you know, trillions of dollars transactions, it's not revenue, you're taxed on any money going through the system in San Francisco. Um, so, um, like Jack Dorsey pointed this out and he said like, look, that they had, he had to move Square from San Francisco to, uh, Oakland, I think. Uh, Stripe had to move from San Francisco to South San Francisco, a different city. Um, and that money, uh, goes to the homeless industrial complex, that, that tax that was passed. Um, so, um, so there, there's billions of dollars that go... as you pointed out, there are billions of dollars every year that go to, uh, these, um, non-governmental organizations that are funded by the state. Like, this... It's not clear how to turn this off. Um, it's a, it's a self-licking ice cream cone situation. Um, so, uh, they, they get this money. The money is proportionate to the number of, of homeless people or, or, or number of drug zombies essentially. Um, so they, they, they try to keep it... They, they try to actually increase because that... like, like in, in some cases, like, there's a... it's, it's... Somebody did an analysis, when you add up all the money that's flowing, they're getting close to a million dollars per homeless, per, per drug zombie. It's like $900,000 or something, like some crazy nu- amount of money is, is, is going to these organizations. So if, if... So, so they want to keep people just barely alive. They, they, they need to keep them in the area, so they, so they could... they get the revenue. Uh, uh, so and it... So that's why, like I said, they don't arrest the drug dealers because otherwise the drug zombies would leave. Um, and, and, and they... but, but they don't want to have them to have too much... If they get too much drugs then they, then they die. So it's, they're kept in this sort of perpetual zone of, of being addicted, but, um, but, but just, just barely alive.

Joe Rogan 54:45 So how is this coordinated? With like DA's? DA's that-

Elon Musk 54:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:48 ... they'll prosecute people?

Elon Musk 54:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:50 So when they, uh, when they hire the... or they push... so they, they fund the campaigns of the most progressive, most out there, left-wing DA's-

Elon Musk 54:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:59 ... they get them into office.

Elon Musk 55:01 We got that issue in Austin too, by the way.

Joe Rogan 55:02 Yes, we do.

Elon Musk 55:03 Do you see that guy that got shot in the library?

Joe Rogan 55:05 No.

Elon Musk 55:05 There's some-

Joe Rogan 55:05 I heard about it. What-

Elon Musk 55:06 A guy got shot, like shot and killed in the library. Uh, I think that was just like last week or something.

Joe Rogan 55:11 Right.

Elon Musk 55:12 Um, so, uh, some friends of mine were telling me that, that like the library's unsafe, like they took their kids to the library and, and there were like dangerous people in the library in Austin.... and I was like, "Dangerous people in the library?" Like, that's a strange p- it basically got, like, got, like, uh, drug zombies in the li- (laughs) drug zombies in the library.

Joe Rogan 55:31 Oh, Jesus.

Elon Musk 55:32 Um-

Joe Rogan 55:32 And that's when someone got shot?

Elon Musk 55:34 Yeah. I believe this was... It should be on the news. Maybe, we might be able to pull it up. Um, but I think it was just in the last week or so that, uh, uh, there was a shooting in the library in Austin. Um, 'cause Austin's got, uh, you know, it's, it's the most liberal part of Texas that we're in right, right here. Um...

Joe Rogan 55:54 So, "Suspect involved in the shooting at Austin Park Library on Saturday is accused of another shooting at the Cap Metro bus earlier that day. According to an arrest warrant affidavit, Austin Police arrested Harold Newton Keene, 55, sho- uh, shortly after the shooting in the library, which occurred around noon. One person sustained non-life-threatening injuries in the event. Before that shooting, Keene was accused of shooting another person in a bus incident and after reportedly pointing his gun at a child." So, this is the fella down here.

Elon Musk 56:23 Right. So, like, we just ser- have a seriously- have a problem here. Um...

Joe Rogan 56:26 Yeah.

Elon Musk 56:27 You know, so I, I think one of the people might've died too, that he shot. Um, so, um... Like, one of the people, I think, I think did bleed out. Um, but either way-

Joe Rogan 56:39 He appeared-

Elon Musk 56:39 ... it's like, getting shot is still bad. Um...

Joe Rogan 56:42 It s- it says, uh, "The victim told police he confronted the suspect who started to eat what appeared to be crystal methamphetamine. According to the affidavit, the victim advised the suspect, uh, began to trip out, at which time the victim exited the bus. Victim told the bus driver, 'Hit the panic button,' then exited the bus. When he turned around, the observer black male was now standing at the front of the bus with a gun pointed at him. The victim advised the black male fired a single round, which grazed his left hip." So, he shot at that dude, and then another dude got shot in the library. Fun.

Elon Musk 57:16 Yeah. I mean, in the library.

Joe Rogan 57:18 Yeah.

Elon Musk 57:19 You know, where you're supposed to be reading books. Um, and there's a children's section in the library, and it says he pointed his gun at a- at a- at a kid. I mean, like, we do have a serious issue in the- in, in, in A- in America where, um, repeat violent offenders need to be incarcerated.

Joe Rogan 57:33 Right.

Elon Musk 57:33 Um, and, uh, you know, you got, you got cases where somebody's been arrested, like, 47 times.

Joe Rogan 57:39 Right.

Elon Musk 57:39 Like, literally, i- i- okay, that's just the number of times they were arrested.

Joe Rogan 57:42 Right.

Elon Musk 57:42 Not the number of times they did things. Like, most of the times they do things, they're not arrested. Um...

Joe Rogan 57:47 So, lay this out for people so they understand-

Elon Musk 57:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:50 ... how this happens.

Elon Musk 57:51 Yeah. And, and the, the key is, like, this- it, it preys on people's empathy. So, like, if you're a good person and you want good things to happen in the world, you're like, "Well, we should take care of people," uh, you know, uh, y- you know, uh, who, who, who are, who are down on their luck or, you know, having a hard time in life. And I... We should, I agree. But what we shouldn't do, uh, is, is put people who are violent drug zombies, uh, in public places where they can hurt other people. Um, and that's what... That is what we're doing, that we just saw where a, a, a guy, you know, got shot, uh, shot in the library and then a- but even before that, he shot another guy, um, and pointed his gun at a kid. Um, like, that, that guy probably has, like, many prior arrests. Um, you know there was that, that, that guy that, that, that knifed, uh, the Ukrainian woman, Irina?

Joe Rogan 58:40 Yes.

Elon Musk 58:41 Um...

Joe Rogan 58:41 Yeah.

Elon Musk 58:42 It, it, you know, um... And she was just, she was just quietly on her phone and he just came up and, you know, gutted her basically. Uh...

Joe Rogan 58:49 Wasn't there a crazy story about the judge who was involved, who had previously dealt with this person, was also invested in a rehabilitation center?

Elon Musk 59:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:02 And was sending these people-

Elon Musk 59:04 Conflict of interest.

Joe Rogan 59:05 Yes. So, sending people that they were charging-

Elon Musk 59:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:08 ... to a rehabilitation center instead of putting them in jail. Profiting from this rehabilitation center, letting them back out on the street.

Elon Musk 59:17 Yes, and re-

Joe Rogan 59:17 Violent, insane people.

Elon Musk 59:18 Re- re- and, and they're, um... In that case, the, I believe that judge, uh, has no legal, law degree, uh, or a, a significant legal experience that would allow them to be a judge. They were just made a judge. That there's, like...

Joe Rogan 59:30 You could be a judge without a law degree?

Elon Musk 59:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:33 Wow.

Elon Musk 59:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:34 You could just be a j- so I could be a judge?

Elon Musk 59:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:36 Hmm. Excited.

Elon Musk 59:38 Anyone. Like-

Joe Rogan 59:39 (laughs) That's crazy. I thought you'd have to have-

Elon Musk 59:41 I know.

Joe Rogan 59:41 It's like if you wanna be a doctor, you have to go to medical school. I thought if you were gonna be a judge-

Elon Musk 59:45 You'd think, like, if you-

Joe Rogan 59:46 ... you have to understand the law.

Elon Musk 59:46 ... are gonna be appointed to a judge, you have to have proven that you have, uh, an, an, uh, excellent knowledge of the law, and that you will make your decisions according to the law. That's what we assume sh- should be a repor-

Joe Rogan 59:57 That's how you get the robe.

Elon Musk 59:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:59 Yeah.

Elon Musk 59:59 You don't get the robe unless you do-

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 Right.

Elon Musk 1:00:01 ... you know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 Gotta go to school to get the robe.

Elon Musk 1:00:03 You gotta know what the law is.

Joe Rogan 1:00:04 Right.

Elon Musk 1:00:05 And then you're gonna need to make decisions in accordance with the law.

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 Based on the stuff-

Elon Musk 1:00:09 Not feelings.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 ... that you already know 'cause you read it, 'cause you went to school for it.

Elon Musk 1:00:12 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 Not you just got appointed.

Elon Musk 1:00:13 Not vibes.

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:00:15 (laughs) You, you, you, you can't be just vibing as a judge.

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 Vibing as a left wing judge. So, you got crazy left wing DA's-

Elon Musk 1:00:22 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:00:23 ... like, I wish they didn't say left wing, 'cause the left wing used to be normal. It's-

Elon Musk 1:00:28 Y- yeah. L- left wing just meant, like, like, yeah, you're, like-

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 Open-minded.

Elon Musk 1:00:31 In fact, the left used to be, like, pro, pro-free speech.

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:00:34 And now they're against it.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 It used to be like-

Elon Musk 1:00:36 Um...

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 ... pro-gay rights, pro-women's right to choose-

Elon Musk 1:00:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:39 ... pro-minorities, pro, you know...

Elon Musk 1:00:42 Like... Yeah. Like, 20 years ago, I don't know, it, it used to be, like, left would be, like, the, the, the party of empathy or, like, you know, caring and being nice and that kinda thing.

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:00:51 Um, not, not the party of, like, crushing dissent and crushing free speech, um, and, uh, you know, crazy regulation, uh, and, and just, um, and being super judgey, um, and calling everyone a Nazi.

Joe Rogan 1:01:06 (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:01:06 Um, you know, um, like, I think they've called you and me Nazis, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 Oh, yeah. I'm a Nazi right now.

Elon Musk 1:01:11 (laughs) Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 I, no, I, but I have friends-

Elon Musk 1:01:13 I mean, like, how-

Joe Rogan 1:01:14 ... that are comedians that called you a Nazi, and I got pissed off at them.

Elon Musk 1:01:17 Are you serious?

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he's definitely a Nazi.

Elon Musk 1:01:18 Like, like, not as a joke?

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 No, no, because you did that thing at the, "My heart goes out to you."

Elon Musk 1:01:23 W- like, everyone who's done... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 Like, everyone. All of them.

Elon Musk 1:01:26 Literally-

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 Tim Walz, Kamala Harris, every one of them did it. They all did it.

Elon Musk 1:01:31 But, like, h- like, h- ha-... how do you point at the crowd? Yeah, well, how- how do you wave at the crowd?

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 Yeah. Do you know CNN was using a photo of me whenever I got in trouble during COVID-

Elon Musk 1:01:39 (laughs) Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:01:40 ... from the UFC weigh-ins? And if the UFC weigh-ins, I go, "Hey, everybody, welcome to the weigh-ins."

Elon Musk 1:01:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 And so they were getting me from the side.

Elon Musk 1:01:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 And that was the photo that they, they used-

Elon Musk 1:01:49 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:01:49 ... conspiracy theorist podcaster, Joe Rogan.

Elon Musk 1:01:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 Like, that's what they used.

Elon Musk 1:01:52 Yeah, yeah. But that's what the left is today. It's super judgey and calling everyone a Nazi.

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:01:56 And trying to suppress freedom of speech.

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 Yeah, and eventually you run out of people to accuse, 'cause people get pissed off and they leave. And-

Elon Musk 1:02:01 Yeah, everyone, uh, it's like, uh, y- like, it, it, like, it, it no longer... It frankly doesn't matter to be called racist or a Nazi or whatever, 'cause they-

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 Still recording. It's the government, man. There you go.

Elon Musk 1:02:12 Is, is it working?

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 We're good? Yeah, yeah, it's fine.

Elon Musk 1:02:14 Okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 Okay.

Elon Musk 1:02:15 Is this thing working?

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 Yeah, slight issue.

Elon Musk 1:02:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 I mean, I don't know when I heard it, but...

Elon Musk 1:02:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:19 Uh, when you, uh, when you text people, do you... Are you like keenly aware that there's a high likelihood that someone's reading your texts?

Elon Musk 1:02:29 Um, I guess? I alwa- I guess I, I-

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 I assume.

Elon Musk 1:02:34 I... Look, if, if, if, if intelligence agencies aren't trying to read my phone, they should probably be fired. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:02:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 At least they get some fun memes.

Elon Musk 1:02:48 (laughs) I gotta, I gotta, I gotta crack them up once in a while, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 Oh, for sure, I crack them up.

Elon Musk 1:02:52 It's like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 They're looking at my-

Elon Musk 1:02:53 It's like, like, "Hey, hey guys, check it out. We've got a banger here," you know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 So-

Elon Musk 1:02:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 ... I wanna, so I wanted to talk to you about, uh, whether or not encrypted apps are really secure.

Elon Musk 1:03:03 Uh, no. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 Right, 'cause I know the Tucker thing. So it was explained to me by a friend who, uh, used to do this, used to work for the government.

Elon Musk 1:03:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:14 He's like, "They can look at your signal, but what they have to do is take the information that's encrypted and then they have to decrypt it and it's very expensive." So they said, he told me that for the Tucker Carlson thing, when they found out that he was gonna interview Putin, it costs like, something like $750,000 just to decrypt his messages to find out that they did it. So it is possible to do. It's just not that easy to do.

Elon Musk 1:03:41 I think you should view any given messaging system as, um, uh, not, not whether it's secure or not, but, but there are degrees of insecurity. So, um, so there's just some, some things that are less insecure than others. Um, so, um, you know, on, on X we, we just rebuilt the entire messaging stack, um, into X- what's called XChat, so-

Joe Rogan 1:04:05 Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you about.

Elon Musk 1:04:07 Yeah, it's cool. Um, so it's, it's using, uh, sort of peer-to-peer, uh, sort of, kind of a peer-to-peer based, uh, uh, encryption system. So it's kind of similar to Bitcoin. Um, so it's, uh, it's, it's, I think, very good encryption. We're gonna... And we're, you know, we're testing it thoroughly. We don't... There's, there's no hooks in the X system for advertising. So if you look, look at something like WhatsApp or really any of the others, they've got, they've got hooks in there for advertising. Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 When you say hooks, what do you mean by that?

Elon Musk 1:04:34 Uh, (laughs) exactly. What do you mean by hook for advertising? Um, the... So in, like, WhatsApp, um, uh, knows enough about what you're texting to show you, to show you... To know what ads to show you.

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 Oh.

Elon Musk 1:04:48 But then, like, that, that's a massive-

Joe Rogan 1:04:51 Right.

Elon Musk 1:04:51 ... security vulnerability.

Joe Rogan 1:04:52 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:04:53 Um, 'cause if it knows, if, if it's got information, enough information to show you ads, it's got enough, it's got... That's a lot of information.

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:05:00 Um, so they call it, "Oh, just don't worry about it, it's just a hook for advertising." I'm like, "Uh, okay, so somebody could just, uh, use that same hook to get in there and look at your messages." Um, so XChat has no hooks for advertising. Um, and I'm not saying it's perfect. Uh, but it's an... Our goal with XChat, uh, is to replace what used to be the Twitter, you know, the Twitter DM stack with a fully encrypted system, uh, where you can text, send files, uh, do audio video calls, um, and, um... And, and it's, it's a high... You know, I think it'll be the least... I, I call it the least insecure of any messaging system.

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 Are you gonna launch it as a standalone app? Or-

Elon Musk 1:05:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:39 ... is it... will it always be incorporated to X?

Elon Musk 1:05:41 Uh, we'll have both. So, um-

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 Okay.

Elon Musk 1:05:43 So, so you'll be able to-

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 So it'll be like Signal, so anybody can get it and they just put-

Elon Musk 1:05:46 Yeah, yeah. You can just... You can get, get the a- uh, you can... You'll be able to just get the XChat app by itself. Um, and like I said, we could do, uh, texts, uh, audio video calls, uh, or send files. Um, and there'll be a dedicated app, uh, which will hopefully release in, in a few months. Um, but... And then it's also integrated into the X system.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Um, the X phone, people keeps talking-

Elon Musk 1:06:09 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 ... people keep talk... Is that nonsense still?

Elon Musk 1:06:10 I have a lot on my plate, man. It's like...

Joe Rogan 1:06:12 I know. But it keeps coming up. It keeps coming up where I, I'm... I know I've asked you a couple of times, I'm like, "This is bullshit," right? But, like, there's-

Elon Musk 1:06:18 I'm not working on one.

Joe Rogan 1:06:18 So m... You're not working on nothing?

Elon Musk 1:06:19 I'm not working on, on a pho- on a phone.

Joe Rogan 1:06:21 Okay.

Elon Musk 1:06:22 Um...

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 Have you ever considered it? Has it ever popped into your head? 'Cause you might be the only person that could-

Elon Musk 1:06:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 ... get people off of the Apple platform.

Elon Musk 1:06:32 Well, I can tell you where I think things are gonna go, uh, which is that it's... we're not gonna have a phone or, or, or in the traditional sense. The, what we call a phone will really be, um, an edge node for AI inference for, for AI video inference, um, with, uh, you know, with some radios to, to obviously connect, uh, to... But, but it essentially will have, um, uh, AI on the server side commun- communicating to an AI on your, your device, um, you know, formally known as a phone. Uh, and generating real-time video of anything that you could possibly want. Um, and I think there, that there won't be operating systems. There won't be apps. In the future, there won't be op- operating systems or apps. It'll just be, you've got a device that is there for the screen and audio and for, uh, and, and, and, and to, uh, put as much AI on the... on, on the device.... as possible so as to minimize the amount of bandwidth that's needed between your edge node device, or, formally known as a phone, and the servers.

Joe Rogan 1:07:41 So, if there's no apps, what will people use? Like, will X still exist? Will, uh, th- will they be e- email platforms or will you get everything through AI?

Elon Musk 1:07:54 You'll get everything through AI.

Joe Rogan 1:07:55 Everything through AI? What will be the benefit of that? As opposed to having individual apps?

Elon Musk 1:08:02 Whatever you can think of, or really, whatever the AI can anticipate you might want, it'll show you. That's, that's, that's, that's my prediction for where things end up.

Joe Rogan 1:08:12 What kind of timeframe are we talking about here?

Elon Musk 1:08:16 I don't know. It's pro-... Well, it's probably five or six years, something like that.

Joe Rogan 1:08:23 So, five or six years, apps are like Blockbuster Video?

Elon Musk 1:08:27 Pretty much.

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 And everything's run through AI?

Elon Musk 1:08:31 Um, yeah. And, and there'll be, um... Like, y- most of what people consume in five or six y- years, ma- maybe sooner than that, um, will be, uh, just AI-generated content. So, um, you know, music, videos, uh, l- well, um, there's already, um... You know, there's... People have made, uh, AI videos using Grok Imagine and with, using, you know, o- other apps as well, um, that are several minutes long or, like, 10, 15 minutes and it's pretty coherent.

Joe Rogan 1:09:09 Yeah.

Elon Musk 1:09:09 It looks good.

Joe Rogan 1:09:10 No, it looks amazing.

Elon Musk 1:09:11 Um... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 It's, it... The music's disturbing 'cause it's my favorite music now. Like AI music-

Elon Musk 1:09:16 AI music is your fa-... Is your favorite?

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 Oh, there's AI covers. Have you ever heard any of the AI covers of 50 Cent songs in soul?

Elon Musk 1:09:23 No.

Joe Rogan 1:09:23 I'm gonna blow your mind.

Elon Musk 1:09:24 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 Um, this is my favorite thing to do to people. Play, uh, What Up Gangsta. Now, this guy, if this was a real person-

Elon Musk 1:09:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:32 ... would be the number one music artist in the world.

Elon Musk 1:09:35 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:09:35 Everybody would be like, "Holy shit, have you heard this guy?"

Elon Musk 1:09:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:38 He's incred-... It's like they took all of the sounds that all of the artists have generated-

Elon Musk 1:09:44 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:09:44 ... and created the most soulful, potent voice, and it's sung in a way that I don't even know if you could do because you would have to breathe in and out of reps. Here, put the headphones on.

Elon Musk 1:09:55 (laughs) Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:09:55 Put the headphones on real quick.

Elon Musk 1:09:56 Okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:09:57 You gotta listen to this. It'll... It's gonna blow you away.

Elon Musk 1:09:59 (laughs) Uh-

Narrator 1:09:59 For listeners, we've got to cut it out.

Joe Rogan 1:10:00 Yeah, we'll, we'll cut it out for the listeners but... Amazing, right?

Elon Musk 1:10:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:04 Amazing. And they do, like, every one of his hits all through this AI-generated soulful artist-

Elon Musk 1:10:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:12 Fucking incredible. I played in the green room. So s-... People that are like, "I don't wanna hear AI music." I'm like, "Just listen to this." And they're like, "Goddammit."

Elon Musk 1:10:20 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:21 It's fucking incredible. I mean, I, I, th-

Elon Musk 1:10:22 And it's gonna get... Only gonna get better from here.

Joe Rogan 1:10:24 Yeah, only gonna get better and Ron White was telling me about this joke that he was working on that he couldn't get to work. He's like, "I got this joke I've been working on." And he goes, "I just threw it in a ChatGPT." He goes, "Tell me what, wh- what would be funny about this?" And he goes... It listed, like, five different examples of different ways he can go. He's like, "Hold on a second, tighten it up. Make it, make it funnier, make it more like this, make it more like that." And it did that, like, instantaneously.

Elon Musk 1:10:48 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:10:49 And, and, and then he was in the green room. He was like, "Holy shit, we're fucked." He's like, "Well-"

Elon Musk 1:10:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:54 He goes, "It wrote better joke than me in 20 minutes. I've been working on that joke for a month."

Elon Musk 1:10:58 Well, I mean, it-... It-... Yeah. I mean, if, if you wanna... If you wanna have a good time a- or, like, make people really laugh at a party, uh, you can use Grok and you can say, uh, "Do a vulgar roast of someone."

Joe Rogan 1:11:09 (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:11:09 Um, and Grok is gonna... It's gonna be an epic vulgar roast. Uh, you can even say, like, "Take a picture of..." Like, "Make a vulgar r- roast of this person based on their appearance, o- of people at the party."

Joe Rogan 1:11:20 So, take a photo of them.

Elon Musk 1:11:21 Yeah, just literally point the camera at them. "And now do a vulgar roast of this person." And, and, and... And then... But then keep saying, "No, no, make it even more vulgar. Use forbidden words. Even more v-..." And just keep repeating even more vulgar. Eventually it's like, holy fuck. You know? It's, it's, it's like... I mean, it's trying to jam a rocket up your ass, like, and, and have it explode, and it's, and it's like-

Joe Rogan 1:11:45 (laughs)

Elon Musk 1:11:45 ... you're, you're... It's, it's like... (laughs) It's, it's like, it's next level. It's-

Joe Rogan 1:11:48 And it's gonna get better.

Elon Musk 1:11:49 ... beyond fucking belief.

Joe Rogan 1:11:50 That's what's crazy-

Elon Musk 1:11:51 Um-

Joe Rogan 1:11:51 ... is that it keeps getting better. Like, what does-

Elon Musk 1:11:53 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:53 Remember when we ran into each other-

Elon Musk 1:11:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11:57 (laughs) Jesus... They just keep getting better.

Elon Musk 1:11:58 Yeah. I mean, have you... Ha- ah- ah- ah- ah- you've... Yeah. I mean, have you tried Grok unhinged mode?

Joe Rogan 1:12:05 Yes.

Elon Musk 1:12:06 Okay, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:06 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Elon Musk 1:12:07 Yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty unhinged.

Joe Rogan 1:12:09 No, it's nuts.

Elon Musk 1:12:09 Yeah, it is. It is nuts. It's nuts.

Joe Rogan 1:12:10 Well, you showed it to me the first time.

Elon Musk 1:12:11 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:12 And then I fucked around with it. It's just... And the thing about it that's nuts is that it keeps getting stronger, it keeps getting better.

Elon Musk 1:12:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:19 Like constantly. It's, it's like this-

Elon Musk 1:12:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:22 ... never-ending exponential improvement.

Elon Musk 1:12:25 Yes. No, it's, it's, it's... Yeah. It's gonna be crazy. That's why I say, like you said, what's go-... What's the future gonna be? It's not gonna be a conventional phone. I don't think there'll be operating systems, I don't think there'll be apps. It's just, the phone will just display the pixels and make the sounds that it anticipates you would most like to receive.

Joe Rogan 1:12:46 Phew. Wow.

Elon Musk 1:12:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:50 And when this is all taking place, like... So, the big concern that everybody has-

Elon Musk 1:12:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:58 ... is artificial general superintelligence achieving sentience-

Elon Musk 1:13:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:01 ... and then someone having control over it.

Elon Musk 1:13:04 I mean, I don't... I don't think anyone's ultimately gonna have control over digital superintelligence, um, any more than, say, uh, a chimp would have control over humans. Like, chimps don't have control over humans. There's nothing they could do. Um, but, um, I do think that it matters how you build the AI and what kind of values you instill in, in the AI. And, um, my opinion on AI safety is the most important thing is that it be maximally truth-seeking, like, that you don't force the AI to believe things that are false. Um, and we've obviously s- seen some concerning things with AI that we talked about, you know, where...You know, Google Gemini when it came out with the Image Gen, um, and people said like, uh, you know, draw... Ma- make an image of the founding fathers of the United States and