Joe Rogan Experience #2417 - Ben van Kerkwyk

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast,…

   1. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:00

      (drumming) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. NANarrator0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:06

      (drums) Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Ben. (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      Good to see you again, man. Last- so last time you were on, we barely scratched the surface of all the things that we wanted to talk about, so immediately we were like, "We gotta do another one quick." Because you wanna talk to them about the Sphinx.

   5. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:22

      The Sphinx, yes. Yeah, we were on, we got into the- well, the Labyrinth was kind of the big deal.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:26

      Labyrinth is nuts. I still haven't been able to get over it. The 40 meter metallic shape-

   7. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:31

      Tic Tac shape?

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:32

      ... Tic Tac shape thing-

   9. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:33

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       ... that's in the ground. Like, what is that?

   11. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:35

       Well, I hope we'll find out. I mean-

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       Tr-

   13. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:38

       ... I, I don't know. I, it's, it's the wheels do turn a little slowly, but I'm, the, the point of that was to try and drive some awareness. Maybe we'll get some sort of angel investor in there to go and look at it and solve the problem-

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       Yeah.

   15. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:48

       ... do something, 'cause-

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Someone needs to talk to Elon.

   17. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:50

       Yeah, maybe.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       I'm, I'm not the guy.

   19. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:51

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:52

       (laughs) I talk to him-

   21. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:53

       Damn it.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       ... too much as it is.

   23. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:54

       (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       He's too busy. But someone who can annoy him-

   25. BKBen van Kerkwyk0:56

       He's solving other problems. Yeah, he's- he's got some-

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       Yeah. Someone, or maybe Bezos would like to be the first guy to get in there. They, someone has to get in there. You have to figure out what that thing is. That's crazy.

   27. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:04

       Who's-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       This might be one of the biggest mysteries in the entire human civilization record.

   29. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:09

       It could be. Yeah, who's the guy-

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       It could be.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Well, I think they've…

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      popularity of these topics. And that's, I think, what is threatening-

   2. BKBen van Kerkwyk15:04

      Well, I think they've always been popular. The problem is they haven't been legitimized. Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:08

      Like, these ideas have always been popular. It's just nobody gets... It's like there's a food that you want that no one's serving.

   4. BKBen van Kerkwyk15:15

      (laughs) Yeah. Yes. That's a great analogy, yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:15

      You know what I mean? That's what it's like. It's not like it wasn't popular.

   6. BKBen van Kerkwyk15:18

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:19

      Like, I'm not n- unique in my interest in ancient Egypt or in ancient civilizations. There's... Everybody has... Look at... When they ask men, like, "What do you think about? Ancient Rome."

   8. BKBen van Kerkwyk15:27

      Yeah. Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:27

      Guys think about ancient Rome all the time.

   10. BKBen van Kerkwyk15:28

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:29

       It's, it's just a normal part of being a person th- that lives in a current civilization wondering what it was like in the past.

   12. BKBen van Kerkwyk15:36

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:36

       And then when you see something like Egypt, you're like, "None of this makes sense." (laughs)

   14. BKBen van Kerkwyk15:40

       (laughs) No. There's massive contradictions. And, and I think-

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:43

       It seems so old.

   16. BKBen van Kerkwyk15:44

       Well, it does. And I th- I think what's, what's made this, well, let's call it alternative perspective, much more possible, even plausible is, is all of the, the, the adjacent fields of science and work that is, that is basically providing a, a, a plausible context for these ideas that there was an ancient lost civilization that is responsible for the roots of some of the things we see in these civilizations, responsible for some of the technological enigmas that we find on these sites. And that, you know, that's... This is all stuff that's happened in recent years in adjacent fields of science, things like the extension of the human timeline, the evidence for severe erosion on these sites, our understanding of climate history and, and cataclysm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:26

       The extension of the human timeline is huge.

   18. BKBen van Kerkwyk16:28

       Oh, it's huge. It-

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:29

       Because, you know, we were just... Jesse Michaels and I were just having a conversation about this.

   20. BKBen van Kerkwyk16:33

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:33

       I was like, imagine if you would not lose any cognitive abilities, y- y- no dec- no decline at all, and modern science figured out a way to let you live a thousand years. Imagine if you're a person who's working on material sciences and you're doing-

   22. BKBen van Kerkwyk16:48

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:48

       ... like, 3D printing. You get to live a thousand years and, and, and you're a researcher and you're, you still show up at work every day for a thousand years or 10,000 years.

   24. BKBen van Kerkwyk16:56

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:56

       That sounds nuts, but it doesn't. Because if you can extend life, you can extend life to, for a, a very prolon- especially with gene editing and-

   26. BKBen van Kerkwyk17:04

       Oh.

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:04

       ... a lot of the other crazy... Who knows if they already figured that out back then? Data brokers are invading your privacy. They're recording everything you do online. And if you live in the US, they're selling your information to anyone and everyone who's willing to buy it. But thankfully, there's a way to stop all the tracking and spying, and that's with ExpressVPN. ExpressVPN is an app that hides your IP address and reroutes 100% of your online activity through secure, encrypted servers. This keeps data brokers from tracking your information, protecting you from invasive advertisers, scammers, and even criminals. And ExpressVPN is now offering three different plans, allowing you to customize your VPN experience. The basic plan starts as low as $3.49 a month. That's less than 12 cents a day. Or if you want all the bells and whistles, including identity protection, credit monitoring, and a dedicated IP, just choose one of their more premium plans. It's up to you. Plus, right now, you can get four extra months of service if you tap the banner or go to expressvpn.com/rogen. That's a price as low as $3.49 a month plus four extra months of service. Go to expressvpn.com/rogen. And if you're watching on YouTube, get your four extra months by scanning the QR code on screen or by clicking the link in the description.

   28. BKBen van Kerkwyk18:35

       I mean, there seems to be some evidence that they, that they might have because, I mean-

   29. JRJoe Rogan18:38

       What about the Sumerian Kings List? Like-

   30. BKBen van Kerkwyk18:40

       Well, this is, this is a big part of it. Yeah, I mean, not just them, but almost every civilization that, that talks about ... even the Bible, it talks about pre-Diluvian or pre-flood, uh, civilizations, often talks about people living for hundreds of years, if not longer than that, thousands of years. You have an Egyptian Kings List that does the same thing. But even in the Bible, you, you know, Noah was-
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   So, i- we knew…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      uncovered it-

   2. BKBen van Kerkwyk30:00

      So, i- we knew it was-

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:01

      Okay.

   4. BKBen van Kerkwyk30:01

      ... buried in sand during the dynastic-

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:04

      Right.

   6. BKBen van Kerkwyk30:04

      ... Egyptian civilization.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:04

      That was, uh, what I was gonna get to.

   8. BKBen van Kerkwyk30:05

      Yes.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:06

      So that's the, so that, uh, during that time, no erosion.

   10. BKBen van Kerkwyk30:09

       R- well, this is a whole ... Yes, so there's a whole other-

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:12

       Right.

   12. BKBen van Kerkwyk30:12

       ... um-

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:12

       So it's protected.

   14. BKBen van Kerkwyk30:12

       ... host. Right, so this is another big issue with, uh, the wind and sand erosion. When you talk specifically about the Sphinx enclosure, I mean, this is, this is one of the big controversial- I mean, for the academics.

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:23

       Well, here's the big one, the face isn't eroded.

   16. BKBen van Kerkwyk30:26

       Exactly.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:26

       And the ... If it's wind and sand, that's the only thing that's exposed, and that's not as eroded.

   18. BKBen van Kerkwyk30:30

       It's been one of my major points for a long time. It is ... Uh, to be fair, it is ... It ... The yardang that the sedimentary layers of limestone, it is a slightly harder form of limestone, but still you're talking thousands and thousands of years where that ... The only thing above the sand level was basically the face, and it's then ... And they explain all of this deep erosion on the body of the Sphinx and the Sphinx enclosure to wind and sand. I know obviously Robert Schoch is-

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:54

       Yes.

   20. BKBen van Kerkwyk30:54

       ... a different interpretation, but yes, you would see erosion on that, but you just don't. Like, I think the, the most plausible explanation for that Sphinx is that, yes, the face was recarved in the dynastic period, probably by ... It could have been by Khafra. Well, actually may well have been before that as well because there's other evidence that suggests that the Sphinx was already buried in sand at his time. Um, what-

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:19

       Wow.

   22. BKBen van Kerkwyk31:19

       ... the attri- ... Uh, the attribution to Khafra comes from two main sources. One is its position, so where the Sphinx is, you have the middle pyramid, you have the causeway that runs down and ... You have the middle pyramid, you have the pyramid temple, the complex where we were seeing that erosion, you have this massive causeway that runs down to then the Valley Temple, which is this, you know, very famous massive megalithic structure. And right next to the Valley Temple is the Sphinx, and in front of that is the Sphinx temple, so they, they sort of attribute it and make it, well, it's part of the middle pyramid complex. The other attribution comes from what's been written on that Dream Stele between, uh, the, the ... in the legs of the Sphinx at its chest, it does say Khafra on there, but there's a lot of ... It's a controversial statement to say that that means Khafra built it. There were several Egyptologists who had different ... And this is back in the, you know, early 1900s, they had different interpretations for what that said. What they, they believe it said was Khafra was trying to do what his ancestors had done, well, Thut- had done before, and, or that Thutmose was trying to do what his ancestors had done before, and Khafra's mentioned there w- in terms of dig it out of the sand and become king.

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:29

       Oh. (laughs)

   24. BKBen van Kerkwyk32:29

       Like, ex- excavate it from the sand.

   25. JRJoe Rogan32:30

       That's the move that everybody goes through.

   26. BKBen van Kerkwyk32:32

       Well, it's als- I think it's propagan-

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:33

       (laughs)

   28. BKBen van Kerkwyk32:33

       It could be a great explanation for that Dream Stele, it could also just be, like, governmental propaganda, right? So he could be-

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:39

       Well-

   30. BKBen van Kerkwyk32:39

       You could put that in there and say, "See, I'm divinely ordained to be king because I dug this out of the sand." It could be just a story.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      had to figure it out.

   2. BKBen van Kerkwyk45:01

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:01

      You know, they'd just be fucking mean and nasty. And I think... I th- I think we probably wiped out or interbred with everything that wasn't us, and-

   4. BKBen van Kerkwyk45:11

      Yep.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:11

      ... that's a wrap.

   6. BKBen van Kerkwyk45:12

      I-

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:12

      Sorry. Sorry, your big bones don't work on arrows.

   8. BKBen van Kerkwyk45:15

      (laughs) Yes.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:16

      S- you, you dummies didn't figure out catapults yet.

   10. BKBen van Kerkwyk45:18

       Guerrilla tactics.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:19

       Yeah. Guerilla tactics, technology. I mean, I think that's also probably one of the reasons why we're so obsessed with making better stuff-

   12. BKBen van Kerkwyk45:26

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:26

       ... including weapons.

   14. BKBen van Kerkwyk45:27

       Yeah, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:28

       You know?

   16. BKBen van Kerkwyk45:29

       Yeah, I think so. I mean, it... There is... I, I don't rule out the... I mean, personally, in my opinion, I, I think there's a... Either via panspermia or intervention theory like that, where we've been-

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:42

       Mm-hmm.

   18. BKBen van Kerkwyk45:42

       There is a huge mystery as to, as to both our species and then how life itself kind of kicked off. Like, that's... Even panspermia is like kicking the can down the road problem, like how do you... How does DNA have... 'Cause one of the most interesting things to me is, like, DNA as a technology has never changed, right? So from single-cell organisms right down through to us, the way life is expressed as a technology, DNA... Like, the... How it expresses life has changed, but DNA, I don't think has changed. Like, it's... It's like this one way that life expresses itself and how it forms is like the actual origins of life.

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:17

       It's DOS.

   20. BKBen van Kerkwyk46:19

       It's DOS (laughs) .

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:19

       (laughs)

   22. BKBen van Kerkwyk46:19

       It's... It is... Well, HOS. Human Operating System.

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:23

       Yeah.

   24. BKBen van Kerkwyk46:23

       Life HOS, li- Life Operating System, something like that.

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:26

       What is... What is your take on those tridactyl mummy things?

   26. BKBen van Kerkwyk46:29

       I have... I, I don't know. I, I think there's... I wouldn't-

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:33

       Did you see Jesse Michaels' sh- episode on it?

   28. BKBen van Kerkwyk46:35

       A little. Yeah, not all of it. I've seen some of it, yes.

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:37

       Oh, the scans? You've seen the scans of it?

   30. BKBen van Kerkwyk46:38

       I've seen the scans, yeah. I saw some of the... I've seen a lot of the information.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:08:39

   Can we see it?…

   1. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:00:00

      away with this tape, and then eventually someone this year actually digitized it, put it up on YouTube as an unlisted video. I found out about it, and so all of a sudden now we- we actually have this footage. We have Zahi going into the Sphinx at the back, saying these- these words.

   2. GIGuest (secondary, in-studio)1:00:14

      Can we see it?

   3. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:00:14

      Yeah, it's- it's if you, Jamie, if you pull up my, I think it's the latest or the couple latest videos about the rare footage found from the Sphinx, it opens with that-... with that footage.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

      Dude, thank God you're out there.

   5. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:00:28

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:28

      I'm so excited you do this. It means so much to me that you do this.

   7. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:00:32

      It's... Oh, it's... I love doing it. It's... This is-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

      I know you do.

   9. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:00:34

      ... fascinating. When you find... Like, I've known about this footage for years and years. (laughs) And, and I'm like, "Oh my God, somebody found it." Yeah, this is it here.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:43

       So there's Zahi.

   11. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:00:44

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:45

       So he's going into this tunnel.

   13. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:00:46

       Yeah. So you can still... This still exists, but then this is... Yeah, this... Where he is now doesn't. Um...

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:51

       What happened?

   15. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:00:52

       Well, the story gets more in- more intriguing. So yeah, this is the... Him saying the line saying, "We've never opened this tunnel before. We're in the body of the Sphinx, and we're gonna figure out where it goes."

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:03

       (exhales)

   17. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:01:03

       So... Yeah, so after that... So Boris... They, they filmed that. They, they... This is the early days, so yeah, I'm walking around the back here. I think I poked my camera in there, but, um, I talk about it later on. It's, it's... So Boris Sayed, who had filmed this with Zahi, goes... He talks to them about, "Let's make a contract. Let's, let's have Zahi open the tunnel." Like, "We'll make the documentary about him opening this tunnel, and we're gonna show it to the world," you know? And they talked about it, he went back to New York, and he never heard from them again. They never mentioned this contract, nothing. He never had any further contact, uh, with Zahi about it. And then funny thing happens in Egypt about, I don't know, eight, nine months later. (laughs) And this is as reported by Robert Bauval and Graham Hancock in their book, um, Heaven's Mirror, and also I found it in, uh, the Arabic publications. But about eight... I think it was six to eight months later, Zahi makes an announcement in Al-Iram and these Egyptian publications in Arabic that says, "I've made this incredible discovery. I've discovered tunnels and chambers beneath the Giza Plateau that's gonna change everything we know about the ancient Egyptians and the pyramids." And he talked about finding three tunnels, one that was, like, on the north, one on the south, and then one that was yet to be determined where it went. And he made this announcement and then never said another word about it ever again. (laughs) It's...

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:02:23

       Whoa.

   19. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:02:24

       In the pa- And this is just in the (laughs) Arabic papers. And here's, here's the funny thing, is, is-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:02:29

       But it... Could it be because there's nothing there?

   21. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:02:32

       Uh, I suspect something else. I s- I suspect that, that if... That even if there was nothing there, you'd still stick... He would've stick- stuck a camera down and looked at it. I, I suspect... I think it's more likely that, yeah, they found something that, that might have upset the apple cart, and it doesn't, um, because he doesn't get-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:48

       Could you imagine if they are sitting on information?

   23. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:02:51

       Oh, I think...

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:52

       You think they are?

   25. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:02:53

       I th- I... Yes. I... Yeah. I, I do. I think there's been plenty of excavations and discoveries that I think have... Uh, were inconvenient for one reason or the other that have probably never seen the light of day.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:03:03

       That's a crime against humanity.

   27. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:03:05

       A little bit. I, I think so. I mean, it's... You know, the funny thing that he s- what he said too when he s- When I read that comment he makes about three tunnels, that's, that's, that's what Al-Idrisi and, uh, Al Mas- uh, Al-Masati said as well, like these, these Herodotus of The Arabs, like, 600 to 800, um, AD. When they went d- They described the same damn thi- three tunnels, like chambers and rooms. It's, it's, it's like lining up with these his- Same as the labyrinth, like it's lining up with these historical accounts. And then it's just you don't hear another word about it. And when you go to the Sphinx today and you, you finally... you pop that little box off its butt, it... The whole thing's been back-filled, like the hole. It... Where, where you see that camera, where, where Zahi-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:03:47

       That's so crazy.

   29. BKBen van Kerkwyk1:03:47

       ... was standing, that steel beam's still there, but where his head level is, where he's standing, "Hey this tunnel goes..." It's like the dirt level's here now. Like it's... It's all been back-filled.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:03:55

       That's so crazy.

Episode duration: 2:48:24