The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #2423 - John Cena
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,061 words- 0:00 – 2:22
Mandarin study: 10 years of learning, dreaming in the language, and living in China
- JCJohn Cena
(drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
- NANarrator
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(instrumental music plays) We're rolling.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's up? (claps hands) John Cena in the fucking house.
- JCJohn Cena
Hey, what you eating? Put these on? Yeah.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, let's put these on. Pretend we're professional.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
What's up? Good to see you, man.
- JCJohn Cena
Thank... Man, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate you guys for being here.
- JRJoe Rogan
My pleasure. And there's no way I'm having a pro wrestler on without Tony Hinchcliffe.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's impossible. He's the expert. He knows more about pro wrestling than I know about (laughs) UFC.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
(laughs)
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Sometimes I translate little things here and there.
- JCJohn Cena
That's cool. That's all right.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. He has to. He has to. And he's a giant fan of yours, too. You know who else is a giant fan of yours is Brian Simpson. Brian Simpson was going on last night about how intelligent you are. It was really interesting. You know, he-
- JCJohn Cena
You sure it was me?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, man.
- JCJohn Cena
(laughs)
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you do speak fucking Mandarin, which is kinda crazy.
- JCJohn Cena
Uh, yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
How long did it take you to learn that?
- JCJohn Cena
Th- Uh, man, I, I was, I was doing that for quite a long time. I've since kinda, um, kinda declined on the studies. Uh, I, a wonderful takeaway from the study of Mandarin, um, just because you know a language doesn't mean you know the culture.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah.
- JCJohn Cena
So, that was a fantastic experience with, I... But I, I studied Mandarin for, like, a decade, and I would say, like, um, not even conversationally fluent. It, it was a really tough hill to climb for me.
- 2:22 – 4:14
Why WWE motivated him to learn Mandarin—and how wrestling finally broke into China
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. So, what motivated you to learn that? It seems like such a task.
- JCJohn Cena
Uh, honestly, man, it was, uh, uh, everything in my life seems to be wrestling-related. It was wrestling-related. Like, WWE's, um, reach spread everywhere. I mean, I've, I've been able to, lucky enough to perform everywhere from, like, Moscow, Philippines, South Africa, uh, Bangor, Maine. You... E- Every place in between, except China. China was, like, the one place that didn't understand what we did. So, it, it's literally like, it's a, it's a universal language 'cause you can turn... It's like UFC. Like, you turn the volume down, but you can see, like, "Oh, this is two guys. Best guy wins." I get it. Uh, Chi- the Chinese just didn't get it, so I figured if, like, one of our superstars spoke the language, maybe that would help break down the barrier. And we got in for-
- JRJoe Rogan
Was it your idea?
- JCJohn Cena
Uh, it was my idea, but the WWE offers, and I think they still offer it. They, they offer a free second language program. So, like, when they rolled out the initiative of, like, financial advice and, um, you know, uh, they'll pay for s- portions of your secondary education and free second language, this is, like, 2011, 2012, big talent meeting in, like, an auditorium. I'm one of the old guys at the time, sitting in the front being like, "These kids don't know how good they have it. The- I should stand up and tell them to..." I'm like, "No, fuck that. I'm actually gonna lead by example and take a language." So, I signed up right then and there for China, Chinese, 'cause I wanted to get us into China.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJohn Cena
And like I said, it worked, but it kinda only worked... And they s- I think, I think, actually, right now, China is experiencing what wrestling is to them. 'Cause, like, there's... I've s- read articles that there's promotions over there that are thriving. So, like, now they get it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, so they have their own promotions now?
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And this is a fairly recent thing?
- JCJohn Cena
I think so. I, like, I just read recent articles that, like, pro wrestling is thriving in China, and they have their own, like, their own way of doing it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah. Yeah.
- 4:14 – 5:26
WWE talent development benefits—and how few people used them
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. That's wild. It's wild how, like, expansive the pro wrestling business is, that they would be that o- open-minded to say, like, "Let's, let's give second language programs to the athletes."
- JCJohn Cena
Well, I, you know, I just... It's, it's weird. Uh, the origins of the business are carnival-related. It is, like, a carnival attraction.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
And then, uh, it, it was, like, ruthlessly territorial. And then when it became national, it was still trying to find its way. It's, it's almost like... You see pro sports doing it. You know, the more a sport succeeds, the more benefits they offer to their competitors and athletes. So, uh, you know, WWE kinda hit that stride. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just such a smart thing to do. You know?
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah. Well, you give your challe- uh, give your talent the opportunities to, to gain knowledge and, and wisdom. And, uh, the, the sad thing is I don't know how many people did it, uh, or, or do it still. You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Was there anybody other than you that you know of that-
- JCJohn Cena
Two other people.
- JRJoe Rogan
Who?
- JCJohn Cena
Uh, Claudio Castagnoli, who speaks, I think, four or five languages already. And he just wanted to take, like, a brush-up course. And, uh, Nattie Neidhart.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's it?
- JCJohn Cena
That's it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Everybody else is like-
- JCJohn Cena
Not gonna do it.
- JRJoe Rogan
... too much work.
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah.
- 5:26 – 10:21
Taiwan teleprompter incident: when Mandarin fluency collided with geopolitics
- JRJoe Rogan
What was the not knowing the culture aspect of it?
- JCJohn Cena
So, man, I got, I got put in a bit of a hotspot with, um, uh... I, I, I, I made a, uh, a pact to myself when I was like, "Okay, I feel fluent." We would do these global press tours, and I just happened to be on a global press tour. I'm like, "You know what? I'm gonna do 70% of my media in Mandarin, like, in dialogue." And I gotta say, I did it. Like, I went over there, spoke. People were taking off the translator headphones. Like, life was good. Everything was great. And at the very end of the day...... as with all these press tours, you do, like, a bunch of prompter reads. So I'm doing prompter reads for everywhere, and it's like, um, "Hey. Go to this place and see this movie. Go to this place and see this movie." And no... My bad. I didn't check the reads, 'cause it's like an end of a 10-hour day, you do a million of these things. And one of them said, like, "Hey, uh, Taiwan, see this, this, this." And, and, uh, the, the... It was all in Mandarin, and the pin yun described Taiwan as a country. So, be the first country to see this. Now, over there, they, they look through a different lens. Like, geopolitics are murky waters, man. And that's what, when I learned of, like... I just said it, left, everybody was cool. I did my thing. Like, I, I read the prompt. It was like a Ron Burgundy moment. Like, "Go fuck yourself, San Diego." (laughs)
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JCJohn Cena
It's like the most offensive thing you can say. So I'm like, "Man, uh, you know, good job, John. You, you said the... You did 70% and people understood what you were talking about." And then they put that out, and everybody was like, "What the fuck did you just say? We don't... That's not how we do it over here." And again, just 'cause it's, uh, like, my takeaway, and it was a, it w- it was a pretty tense moment for me. Like, I had to apologize to China. And in apologizing to China, I, I pissed off my home country. I'm, I'm a patriot. I love the United States of America and everything it stands for. But like, no one... It was never enough. Nobody was happy. Everybody was fucked up.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JCJohn Cena
And it was, it was, it was, like, murky waters for me personally. And I... It was weird. Like, I'm not... I think I might have been the only guy almost to get canceled for doing his homework.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JCJohn Cena
You know? Like, for trying to, like, learn, like, learn, and, and try to do something. But the, the cool takeaway, you know, we can learn from every mistake. My mistake was just because you know the language doesn't mean you know the culture.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Did they even refer to it as Taiwan? I think they referred to it as Chinese Taipei, right?
- JCJohn Cena
Man, what was in the th- I know what I read in, in the thing.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Oh, okay.
- JCJohn Cena
So that's... Uh, again, I don't know enough depth to know that. And now, like, people are like, "Oh, man, can you, can you speak Mandarin for this?" I just won't do it. It's a skill that I have, and it's... But it's a skill that's gonna remain with me because it's, uh, I don't understa- I don't have the depth of field to know what to call that place in that region of the world. And I haven't done enough research, and I don't have the wisdom, and I don't have, like, the, the cultural fluency, you know?
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Mm. Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
So it was a cool lesson. It, it sucked.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JCJohn Cena
'Cause I thought I was just trying to do something good, but it was, it was a cool lesson.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Was it r- was it really that big of a deal?
- JCJohn Cena
Man, I, I thought... Like, I th- I, I was filming Peacemaker season one, and when they came out with all of this stuff, I went directly to James Gunn and was like, "Hey, man, if you have to fire me, I under- I understand."
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Wow.
- JCJohn Cena
And, uh-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
It was that serious?
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah, and it was-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
But it wasn't even words that you wrote? Someone e- the WWE wrote it?
- JCJohn Cena
That doesn't... No, no, it was, it was for the movie I was promoting.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Right. So the movie, the people that made the movie wrote it?
- JCJohn Cena
So I don't know. Like, when you do these press tours, let's say if I'm doing a movie for Warner Brothers, let's say. Let's use Peacemaker as an example. I'm doing a global Peacemaker tour and we go into China or we go into South America. You meet, like, the PR person there.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Right.
- JCJohn Cena
And they have all the stuff you're supposed to do, and they curate your experience, and they hold your hand. And they're like, "Okay, now we're gonna go to this station. And by the way, they just want you to do some shout-outs." And so anytime I go anywhere globally now, a- as much as I wanna, um, thank fans for their attention and, you know, investing in the product, I really shy away from, like, speaking the language 'cause I don't understand the cultural nuance, you know?
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Oh.
- JCJohn Cena
I just, I just wanna be like, "Yo, man. Thanks for watching what we do, and I love the fact that you're entertained, but I wanna speak to you at a level that I understand, that I'm fluent. 'Cause you're boots on the ground here every day, and I might say something that's a nice gesture, but completely fucking offend you. And that's, that's not good, that's not good for anybody."
- 10:21 – 13:53
Accountability and crisis response: not blaming PR, learning to pause, and reading releases
- THTony Hinchcliffe
It doesn't even seem like that was your fault. Right. It's probably a PR's assistant's assistant that's type- that's probably in charge of doing the grunt work of typing in all the different languages and the different countries. Like, it's tedious.
- JCJohn Cena
And you, uh, uh, from, from what I know, I know I'm gonna learn a lot about you guys in this episode. But from what I know about you, you're, you're into looking at, looking things through different lenses and different perspectives. It also could have been somebody being like, "I'm gonna get this kid."
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Ooh.
- JCJohn Cena
But here's the thing. I, I do appreciate you saying, like, it's not your fault. That's not true. It was my fault. And I think that's when I can start to work on, like, "Well, what did I learn from this?" And I could easily blame a PR, an assistant. I could say somebody had a target on my back, all that stuff. I fucked up.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Did you suspect that somebody might have set you up?
- JCJohn Cena
No. Man-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Well, you're saying it like it's a possibility.
- JCJohn Cena
Well, man, when it happened, everybo- every theory came... Like, here's the thing. The world doesn't revolve around me, but my little world, everybody was like, "They fucked up. They did this on purpose." I was like, "Well, first of all, who's they?" So I was able to kind of eliminate all that. And once I realized I could still go on working, uh, I, I really made a lot of people angry. And for that, that I'm sorry. Like, again, I was just trying to-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
That's crazy. Just by saying that Taiwan's a country.
- JCJohn Cena
In, in Chinese, though.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Right, right.
- JCJohn Cena
You know, like, those are murky waters to begin with.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
You know? Like, I, uh, I'm not even thoroughly fluent on the US policy. I think it's like, like, uh, territorial ambiguity or some shit like that. (laughs)
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Mm-hmm.
- JCJohn Cena
Like it's, it's so weird and it's, it's so fragile. And I, I, uh, I got into some water I shouldn't have been swimming in.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Wow.
- JCJohn Cena
But that's, that's on me. It's not... It's, it was my fault. And, and I think that's important for me to bear the burden of that and be like, "Yo, what... How can I course correct? What did I learn? Who do I really, really genuinely have to apologize for offending?" The, the biggest-... thing that was a kick to the nuts is when, like, people stateside got pissed off.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because you apologized?
- JCJohn Cena
Yes, in, in Chinese.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJohn Cena
And, and I understand. It, I mean, completely like bowing down to the demand of this that, gosh, what a, what a shitty move by me. Like, I just, I should have taken a breath. Again, what did I learn? Don't be reactive.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJohn Cena
Take a breath, find out what's going on, find out the best path of action. Maybe give it a few days, maybe give it a hot second.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJohn Cena
Um, and then move forward. But immediately, I was like, "Oh, they're mad? You want us to do this? Fine, no problem. I'll fix it right now." Man, that, not only did I not try to fix the hole in the boat, I sunk the Titanic.
- JRJoe Rogan
(inhales deeply)
- JCJohn Cena
So, it was... But again, it was, uh, a learning experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it speaks to your character that you don't blame anybody else, 'cause I'd blame everybody else. (laughs)
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- 13:53 – 17:44
Wrestling dream guests: Vince McMahon, Stone Cold, Triple H—and what they’d reveal
- JRJoe Rogan
So, this is, uh... Tony, is this, is this the full trifecta now? Is like if y- you've gotten all of your heroes, uh, on this podcast now?
- THTony Hinchcliffe
There's a couple more we can knock off out of the pro-wrestling world.
- JCJohn Cena
(laughs)
- THTony Hinchcliffe
There's a couple more.
- JCJohn Cena
Talk, let's, if, if you don't mind, if I can indulge.
- JRJoe Rogan
Please.
- JCJohn Cena
Talk pro-wrestling heroes. Who do, who do we need to knock off? Who do we need to get in here?
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Well, I mean, in all reality, and it's a diabolical, diabolical thing.
- JCJohn Cena
'Cause man, 'cause man, he can, he can kind of invite, he... You can't. You can invite anyone you want in here.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
You just kinda gotta give him the wish list.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
I mean, you gotta, you gotta start with the number one, without a doubt, Vince McMahon, who started this gangster shit and spread it around.
- JRJoe Rogan
I would definitely have him in.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
It was a little-
- JCJohn Cena
Man, I...
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
He would be great.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yes.
- JCJohn Cena
I... Whatever magic you have out there, and you have a lot of gravity.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you think he'd be interested in doing it?
- JCJohn Cena
Are you kidding me? I think he would love it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
I think he would love it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- JCJohn Cena
I don't, I don't know when the right time is. But man, don't, don't miss out on that opp... At least, at least send it out to the universe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, I, I would definitely... Vince, if you're listening-
- JCJohn Cena
Vince, if you're listening.
- JRJoe Rogan
... let's go. (laughs)
- JCJohn Cena
I think this would be a great, I think this experience would be a great one for you.
- 17:44 – 26:06
Tony’s WWE writing offer and the grind of weekly TV content
- JRJoe Rogan
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- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you don't... If you don't know the history, Tony, at one point in time, was offered a job with the WWE before he really made it.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
No way.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was offered a job to write for the WWE because, you know, Tony was a giant pro wrestling fan and, you know, he'd already had a Netflix special, so he was known as a comic-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
It was, it was before that. Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Was it before the Netflix special?
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The first one?
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The one that you released yourself?
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. It was only a couple years into me doing standup, like, seven nights a week at the Comedy Store all the time. And somehow, I ended up... Someone's like, "Hey, I have a friend in WWE if you wanna have a meeting with them and just talk." And I went in with straight up ideas. This, that, the under- the Undertaker's brother comes back again, this, that, the next. Like, everything back and forth. I can't even remember any of them, it's been so long, but I went in with the whole thing. This guy's like, "Where the hell did you... Like, what... Oh, this is crazy. You just, like, did this?" I'm like, "Yeah, I found out a couple days ago we were gonna talk, so." But yeah, they offered it, but I would have had to move to Connecticut and take a train to New York every night to do, go do standup, and that would have just been exhausting. And everything I heard, 'cause Patrice O'Neal, the late, great Patrice O'Neal wrote for WWE for a while.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did he really?
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. Yeah, for, like, a couple years, I think.
- JRJoe Rogan
What did he... Just write lines for them? Like, what did he do?
- THTony Hinchcliffe
The whole shebang. When you're a WWE writer, they, they make you write. It's not, like, a cute job at all.
- JCJohn Cena
No, it... There's a lot of... There's a lot of television, or there's a lot of content every week.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJohn Cena
Right now, I think they got... They have three weekly shows.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Mm-hmm.
- JCJohn Cena
So that's 20... I think one of them's going back to three hours.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yep.
- JCJohn Cena
So 16... So it's like, it's like 50 segments of TV-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
... every week.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, but it's... I remember when you were talking about it.
- 26:06 – 36:09
Pain tolerance, surgeries, and avoiding opioids—plus Joe’s ACL stories
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you ever have an issue?
- JCJohn Cena
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
No?
- JCJohn Cena
No. As a matter of fact, uh, I've- I've had fusion in my neck, right pec completely detached, reattached, both triceps reattached, uh, both triceps scoped. Um, nose relocated. Like, I- I got... I probably in... I'm in, like, 10 physical surgeries where they gotta go and correct something. Never taken one, uh, pain pill.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJohn Cena
I have all the prescriptions in the bottom drawer of my house, filled. And- and it's weird because at every facility, the first thing they... the first hill they climb is pain management.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JCJohn Cena
You wake up from anesthesia, you're, like, gray and murky. And I've been in a bunch of surgeries at a bunch of different facilities. The protocol's always the same. "Do you want something for the pain? Here, we gotta make sure you take this with you 'cause you're not in any pain."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
Like, I- I understand 'cause you... if you leave, if you're feeling okay, maybe you're high off adrenaline, I don't know, and then the operation sets in of like, "Holy fuck, this is a 10 out of 10. I can't... I need something." I get that. But I- I guess from falling down and hurting my body a lot, like, I know my pain threshold.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
And when I... The- the worst one was probably the putting the whole pec back on and then attaching it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- JCJohn Cena
But when I woke up, I was able to, like, mess around with the stress ball and I never took one pill.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's amazing.
- JCJohn Cena
And I- I still have the- the full bottles of, like... Some are labeled 2008 is when I had my first surgery, and they're- they're just all there. You can-
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a lot of people listening right now going, "I wonder if they're still good."
- JCJohn Cena
You can count them all. (laughs)
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
"I wonder if they're still good. I'm gonna find out. I'm gonna find out what John Cena stores them-"
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"... bottom left drawer."
- JCJohn Cena
It was weird because the- the medical staff couldn't- couldn't believe it. Like, they're like, "You don't want anything." No, because, man, it's, uh... I know how I am with this.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's... Yeah, it's a fucking slippery road.
- JCJohn Cena
And I would just... I'd be high on opiates all- opioids all the time.
- JRJoe Rogan
I got my first knee surgery, I think, in '93 or '94, and they gave me... I got an ACL reconstruction, and they gave me Vicodin, I think. I'm pretty sure it was Vicodin. I took one one day, and I felt so stupid. I was lying in... lying on my couch watching TV, and I felt so dumb, and my knee still hurt, you know? It was just like it was distracting me from the fact-
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that my knee hurt. But I'm like, "I can't be this dumb. I'm dumb enough as it is."
- JCJohn Cena
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
"I can't add to my dumbness with pills."
- 36:09 – 38:33
Fighting, diplomacy, and why tough people avoid street fights
- JCJohn Cena
I've, I've always said that there's something... There's some value in to losing a fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
Like, I grew up with four brothers, and we'd kick the shit out of each other, and I'm, I w- I was not always on the winning side. So very early on in my life, as a young person, you know what it's like to lose a fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, it's very valuable.
- JCJohn Cena
And I think that that's... There's a lot, maybe, to do with the pain conversation there of, like, just flat out getting your ass kicked and then being able to dust yourself off and be like, "I'll get you next time." You know? Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJohn Cena
... it's not over. You know what I'm saying? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right, right.
- JCJohn Cena
Like, yeah. We're brothers. We're gonna fight again, you know? Like, I-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's also knowing, like, "Why did he beat me? What can I do to beat him next time?" You know? Like, if you don't have that in your life... Also, if you don't know what it feels like to get your ass kicked, you get a little mouthy.I mean, how many mouthy people do we know that have never been fucked up? And I think that's why. Like, there's real consequences if it actually comes down. You start yelling and you get mouthy, if it actually comes down to it, and we've all seen many of these videos on the internet-
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... where someone just don't, they don't know what the fuck they're asking for or what they're getting into, and then all of a sudden they're getting hit.
- JCJohn Cena
And man, uh, uh, I'm not perfect and there are days when I'm short of patience, but when it gets to that weird spot of like, "Yo, someone's gonna get hit in the face-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJohn Cena
... I always try to, like, lean on diplomacy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Always. Always. Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
Please, let's not do that-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(clears throat)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
... 'cause that fucking sucks. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
And I bet a lot of people say to you, "Man, if I was you, I'd be fucking everybody up."
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the... Dumb people always say that, but, like, it doesn't end with that.
- JCJohn Cena
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Then this guy gets his brother, or he shoots you or he'll run you over with a car. Like...
- JCJohn Cena
Or you think you're gonna fuck somebody up and you get fucking handled.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. (laughs) Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
Like, you never know, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. Right.
- JCJohn Cena
You never know any- anybody else's story.
- 38:33 – 46:54
WWE vs UFC: collaboration, calculated risk, and the brutal travel schedule
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? I mean, the fucking sheer amount of punishment you guys put yourself through is staggering. I mean, it really is staggering.
- JCJohn Cena
But, but, uh, thank you very much. Uh, it is, it is all for the g- like, it's like a, a pro-football player, pro-hockey player, UFC, I think, I think the beautiful advantage that we have is that it's... We can, we can make choices on what we do. So, when you're in UFC and they close the door, it's kinda fucking best person wins. You know, you gotta... It's, it's survival. When we're in WWE and we both step in the ring and they ring the bell, we're working together. We're working together to put on the best show for the audience. And in that process, you can calculate the risks you wanna take.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JCJohn Cena
And I think that's what allows somebody to be able to perform for 23 years. You know, I, I don't know what... I know that, that, um, age-old stat that everybody says about, like, the average NFL careers. What? Two and a half years or three and a half years?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJohn Cena
I don't know what the stat is on average UFC career. Like, how long a... When... What's your window to be functionally profitable in UFC? But I know because our risks are calculated and we're working together rather than against each other, the math is, is way higher for you to have, like, a 10, 15, 20-year career-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JCJohn Cena
... in WWE. But that also is 10 more years of falling down, 15 more years of falling down. So you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
It's weird. Like, you can choreograph the risk, but you have to do it time and time again. And, and the schedule in WWE just changed. Like, to do 70 matches a year now in WWE is like, man, you, you're a workhorse. We used to do 220, 230.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is so crazy.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
It's, it, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
220 days of trauma in a year.
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause you're getting... No matter what, you're getting some trauma. No matter what.
- JCJohn Cena
It is.
- JRJoe Rogan
A guy body slams you, something hap- you're colliding, you go off the ropes, you're smashing into each other.
- JCJohn Cena
I get such a warm feeling-
- JRJoe Rogan
Trauma.
- JCJohn Cena
... when, uh, first-timers go into the ring for the first time.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJohn Cena
It's like, "Oh, it's like a, it's like a bouncy floor." And then they fall down once and, like, the wind's knocked out of them and they're like, "My brain moved." Like-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah, yeah. Now you gotta do that again and again.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJohn Cena
But it's weird. I've, I've, uh, I've gotten to work with a lot of stand-ups and WWE is kinda changing. I, I would say it's on the progression of a stand-up making it to just, like, a stadium tour. But man, when I performed, my sweet spot, we ran very parallel lives. Like, you... I've worked every city. Hampton Beach Casino Ballroom to Madison Square Garden. Like, to the Saitama Super Arena to AT&T Stadium to Bangor, Maine or to Valparaiso, Indiana. Like, you, you go to all of these places.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 46:54 – 53:56
Breaking through in WWE: ‘Fugganomics,’ backstage heat, and accidental opportunities
- JRJoe Rogan
It's in- it's interesting because it must weed out so many talented people. There's probably a lot of talented people that you've seen over the years that just didn't have that drive to constantly improve and succeed and really be thinking about what they're doing all the time.
- JCJohn Cena
I, I like that statement, because I think the talent is doing it all. You could, you could have a-
- JRJoe Rogan
No, you can have one. You, you can smoke if you want. I don't care.
- JCJohn Cena
Smoke 'em if you've got 'em. We're, we're done.
- JRJoe Rogan
We have, we have f- we have fans in here.
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Really?
- JRJoe Rogan
We have fans of Sock Out All The Smoke.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Okay.
- JCJohn Cena
I think this, the statement of, um, "Man, so many talented people didn't make it," they may have. They may be an acrobat.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJohn Cena
They may be a fast talker. But that's not the only attribute that makes one special. Uh, you may be a great joke writer, but man, if y- if you don't master stage presence, I mean, you'll be a joke, a great joke writer with stage presence, but if you can't lug the tour-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
... you're not, you're not talented for it. It's a-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's, it's really the grind.
- JCJohn Cena
It is.
- JRJoe Rogan
In everything.
- JCJohn Cena
It's the all-encompassing thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
So when someone with great athletic ability decides that it's not for them, 'cause eventually that is... We... One thing about WWE, um, for all the arguments of, like, backstage politico, everybody understands the sound of money.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJohn Cena
And no one refuses it. Like, "I fucking hate this guy, but I gotta give him another match." It may not be, "But I now have to give him a 10-year contract," but when they go out there, if the noise is there, even if the theys fucking hate you, you get another match.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JCJohn Cena
I'm, I am proof positive of that meritocracy at work.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
Like, everybody fucking hated me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Why'd they hate you?
- JCJohn Cena
I was just real different. Like, I, I was just really different. I just-
- JRJoe Rogan
In what way?
- 53:56 – 1:00:47
The ‘heel turn’ at WrestleMania: minimalist entrance and collaborative creative process
- THTony Hinchcliffe
And for it to go all the way to last year's massive heel turn.
- JCJohn Cena
Yeah.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
He went heel. Dude, I n-... I'm, I'm-
- JCJohn Cena
That was this year, by the way.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. Yeah, that was this year.
- JCJohn Cena
Yes, it's, it's been a great year.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah. It's been a... It's crazy year. (laughs) Yeah, it has.
- JCJohn Cena
It's been a year.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah, that was. That was at Mania. Uh, uh, and, man, one... literally, perhaps... I c-... other than maybe Hogan, right? The greatest heel turn in wrestling history. When a good, good, good, good, good crowd-pleasing guy goes bad bad and dark, you had moments. The things you were saying, the way you were saying them, epic, iconic, iconic heel turn. Cold, dark, working with The Rock, he was in cahoots. That's the good guy Cody Rhodes.
- JCJohn Cena
You can, like, see the peoples' faces. The, that's the fun thing.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JCJohn Cena
It's, like, uh...
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JCJohn Cena
S- this stuff is so simple, but it's-
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JCJohn Cena
It's the... If you take out the crowd in that situation and just put those three guys, it is really fucked up what we do.
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- JCJohn Cena
But when you add the audience in the back and all of their faces and what's going on, that's what makes ..........................
- NANarrator
Bro, even your face.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yep.
- NANarrator
You, you l-... You got, like, a mean guy face all of a sudden.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yep.
- NANarrator
It's like you look like a different person.
- JCJohn Cena
I was having-
- NANarrator
It's interesting.
- JCJohn Cena
I was having a bad day.
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- 1:00:47 – 1:15:51
Wrestling storytelling as universal emotion—and how Kill Tony uses pro-wrestling DNA
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so funny hearing Tony talk about this, because for people who don't know-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... the way Tony runs Kill Tony is basically a version of a WWE-
- JCJohn Cena
Event?
- JRJoe Rogan
... event. I mean, it really is. Like, when he does the arena shows, he's ha- has everything set up like a WWE event.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, even the thing we did with Shane, when Sh- (laughs) when Shane was playing-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
When Shane was playing Trump, when Trump and I were supposedly feuding online. Trump had said something about me online. And then, uh, Trump's talking shit, like as Shane's talking shit, and then the music plays and I show up behind him. It's pure pro wrestling.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's pure pro wrestling.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
And MSG's on their feet, shocked, you know. You're surprising this crowd that thinks they're just there for a comedy show.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
And, "Well there's the panel, I guess that's what we're gonna have tonight." But the surprises, the ups, the downs, and then he brings up Joey Diaz. So it of like boom, boom, kind of like that big finish at Mania that I was talking about.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Like superstar bringing up a superstar, you know, music, music, smoke, fire.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
All these little things-
- JRJoe Rogan
The more you-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
... when you pay to see a show.
- JRJoe Rogan
The more you make it important-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... the more important it becomes.
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I, as, when, what he's saying is, like, w- when Trump was there, this was as Trump was running for president and Trump thought that I was endorsing RFK so he got mad at me. So I said, "I am here to endorse someone," and I brought out Joey Diaz. I mean J- (laughs) -
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
We, we-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
Which is great-
- JRJoe Rogan
... endorse Joey Diaz as-
- THTony Hinchcliffe
... because he's, you get a reveal-
Episode duration: 2:11:18
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