Joe Rogan Experience #2423 - John Cena

John Cena 0:00 (drumbeats) Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

Narrator 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. (instrumental music plays)

Tony Hinchcliffe 0:10 (instrumental music plays) We're rolling.

Joe Rogan 0:13 What's up? (claps hands) John Cena in the fucking house.

John Cena 0:16 Hey, what you eating? Put these on? Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 0:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:17 Yeah, let's put these on. Pretend we're professional.

Tony Hinchcliffe 0:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:20 What's up? Good to see you, man.

John Cena 0:22 Thank... Man, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate you guys for being here.

Joe Rogan 0:23 My pleasure. And there's no way I'm having a pro wrestler on without Tony Hinchcliffe.

Tony Hinchcliffe 0:28 Of course.

Joe Rogan 0:28 It's impossible. He's the expert. He knows more about pro wrestling than I know about (laughs) UFC.

Tony Hinchcliffe 0:33 Yeah.

John Cena 0:33 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 0:34 Sometimes I translate little things here and there.

John Cena 0:36 That's cool. That's all right.

Tony Hinchcliffe 0:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:37 Yeah. He has to. He has to. And he's a giant fan of yours, too. You know who else is a giant fan of yours is Brian Simpson. Brian Simpson was going on last night about how intelligent you are. It was really interesting. You know, he-

John Cena 0:48 You sure it was me?

Joe Rogan 0:49 Yeah, man.

John Cena 0:50 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 0:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:51 Well, you do speak fucking Mandarin, which is kinda crazy.

John Cena 0:54 Uh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:55 How long did it take you to learn that?

John Cena 0:57 Th- Uh, man, I, I was, I was doing that for quite a long time. I've since kinda, um, kinda declined on the studies. Uh, I, a wonderful takeaway from the study of Mandarin, um, just because you know a language doesn't mean you know the culture.

Joe Rogan 1:12 Ah.

John Cena 1:12 So, that was a fantastic experience with, I... But I, I studied Mandarin for, like, a decade, and I would say, like, um, not even conversationally fluent. It, it was a really tough hill to climb for me.

Joe Rogan 1:22 Well, it seems like a really big hill.

John Cena 1:25 Just, it's, uh, it's just different.

Joe Rogan 1:27 And then even if you could speak it-

John Cena 1:27 You know, you get used to the language and the structure.

Joe Rogan 1:29 ... can you read it? You know, the reading.

John Cena 1:30 No.

Joe Rogan 1:30 It is crazy.

John Cena 1:30 No, I didn't even bother to read. And, uh, like reading all the characters, understanding everything, uh, yeah. I didn't even bother.

Joe Rogan 1:35 How long did it take you to learn?

John Cena 1:36 Uh, around 10 years.

Joe Rogan 1:38 Whoa. (laughs)

John Cena 1:39 Yeah. And then, like, I mean, I, I would dream in Mandarin and, like, have conversations and kick down and that, so it, it became, like, uh, like a, a second language.

Joe Rogan 1:48 Wow.

John Cena 1:48 But, you know, I, I lived in China for a little bit. I filmed a movie with Jackie Chan, so I was there for, like, six or seven months. I lived there in, um, man, we were Inner Mongolia, Yinchuan Province, so, like, uh, like, in China.

Joe Rogan 2:00 Wow.

John Cena 2:00 And, uh, it was fun. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:03 You were in Mongolia?

John Cena 2:04 Inner M- Inner Mongolia, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:06 Uh, what's the difference?

John Cena 2:07 Uh, I don't know-

Joe Rogan 2:08 (laughs)

John Cena 2:08 ... 'cause I've never, I've never been to Mongolia. But I- Inner Mongolia was, uh, man, I was, I was the only person that looked like me there, uh, and everyone would say, "Look, it's, it's big white guy."

Joe Rogan 2:18 (laughs)

John Cena 2:18 "Hendabai Ren, Hendabai Ren." They would call me.

Joe Rogan 2:20 Wow.

John Cena 2:21 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:22 Wow. So, what motivated you to learn that? It seems like such a task.

John Cena 2:26 Uh, honestly, man, it was, uh, uh, everything in my life seems to be wrestling-related. It was wrestling-related. Like, WWE's, um, reach spread everywhere. I mean, I've, I've been able to, lucky enough to perform everywhere from, like, Moscow, Philippines, South Africa, uh, Bangor, Maine. You... E- Every place in between, except China. China was, like, the one place that didn't understand what we did. So, it, it's literally like, it's a, it's a universal language 'cause you can turn... It's like UFC. Like, you turn the volume down, but you can see, like, "Oh, this is two guys. Best guy wins." I get it. Uh, Chi- the Chinese just didn't get it, so I figured if, like, one of our superstars spoke the language, maybe that would help break down the barrier. And we got in for-

Joe Rogan 3:08 Was it your idea?

John Cena 3:09 Uh, it was my idea, but the WWE offers, and I think they still offer it. They, they offer a free second language program. So, like, when they rolled out the initiative of, like, financial advice and, um, you know, uh, they'll pay for s- portions of your secondary education and free second language, this is, like, 2011, 2012, big talent meeting in, like, an auditorium. I'm one of the old guys at the time, sitting in the front being like, "These kids don't know how good they have it. The- I should stand up and tell them to..." I'm like, "No, fuck that. I'm actually gonna lead by example and take a language." So, I signed up right then and there for China, Chinese, 'cause I wanted to get us into China.

Joe Rogan 3:46 Wow.

John Cena 3:47 And like I said, it worked, but it kinda only worked... And they s- I think, I think, actually, right now, China is experiencing what wrestling is to them. 'Cause, like, there's... I've s- read articles that there's promotions over there that are thriving. So, like, now they get it.

Joe Rogan 4:02 Oh, so they have their own promotions now?

John Cena 4:03 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:04 And this is a fairly recent thing?

John Cena 4:05 I think so. I, like, I just read recent articles that, like, pro wrestling is thriving in China, and they have their own, like, their own way of doing it.

Joe Rogan 4:13 Wow.

John Cena 4:13 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:14 Wow. That's wild. It's wild how, like, expansive the pro wrestling business is, that they would be that o- open-minded to say, like, "Let's, let's give second language programs to the athletes."

John Cena 4:30 Well, I, you know, I just... It's, it's weird. Uh, the origins of the business are carnival-related. It is, like, a carnival attraction.

Joe Rogan 4:36 Yeah.

John Cena 4:36 And then, uh, it, it was, like, ruthlessly territorial. And then when it became national, it was still trying to find its way. It's, it's almost like... You see pro sports doing it. You know, the more a sport succeeds, the more benefits they offer to their competitors and athletes. So, uh, you know, WWE kinda hit that stride. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:55 It's just such a smart thing to do. You know?

John Cena 4:57 Yeah. Well, you give your challe- uh, give your talent the opportunities to, to gain knowledge and, and wisdom. And, uh, the, the sad thing is I don't know how many people did it, uh, or, or do it still. You know?

Joe Rogan 5:08 Was there anybody other than you that you know of that-

John Cena 5:10 Two other people.

Joe Rogan 5:11 Who?

John Cena 5:12 Uh, Claudio Castagnoli, who speaks, I think, four or five languages already. And he just wanted to take, like, a brush-up course. And, uh, Nattie Neidhart.

Joe Rogan 5:21 Wow.

John Cena 5:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:22 That's it?

John Cena 5:23 That's it.

Joe Rogan 5:23 Everybody else is like-

John Cena 5:25 Not gonna do it.

Joe Rogan 5:25 ... too much work.

John Cena 5:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:26 What was the not knowing the culture aspect of it?

John Cena 5:30 So, man, I got, I got put in a bit of a hotspot with, um, uh... I, I, I, I made a, uh, a pact to myself when I was like, "Okay, I feel fluent." We would do these global press tours, and I just happened to be on a global press tour. I'm like, "You know what? I'm gonna do 70% of my media in Mandarin, like, in dialogue." And I gotta say, I did it. Like, I went over there, spoke. People were taking off the translator headphones. Like, life was good. Everything was great. And at the very end of the day...... as with all these press tours, you do, like, a bunch of prompter reads. So I'm doing prompter reads for everywhere, and it's like, um, "Hey. Go to this place and see this movie. Go to this place and see this movie." And no... My bad. I didn't check the reads, 'cause it's like an end of a 10-hour day, you do a million of these things. And one of them said, like, "Hey, uh, Taiwan, see this, this, this." And, and, uh, the, the... It was all in Mandarin, and the pin yun described Taiwan as a country. So, be the first country to see this. Now, over there, they, they look through a different lens. Like, geopolitics are murky waters, man. And that's what, when I learned of, like... I just said it, left, everybody was cool. I did my thing. Like, I, I read the prompt. It was like a Ron Burgundy moment. Like, "Go fuck yourself, San Diego." (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 6:47 (laughs)

John Cena 6:47 It's like the most offensive thing you can say. So I'm like, "Man, uh, you know, good job, John. You, you said the... You did 70% and people understood what you were talking about." And then they put that out, and everybody was like, "What the fuck did you just say? We don't... That's not how we do it over here." And again, just 'cause it's, uh, like, my takeaway, and it was a, it w- it was a pretty tense moment for me. Like, I had to apologize to China. And in apologizing to China, I, I pissed off my home country. I'm, I'm a patriot. I love the United States of America and everything it stands for. But like, no one... It was never enough. Nobody was happy. Everybody was fucked up.

Tony Hinchcliffe 7:22 (laughs)

John Cena 7:23 And it was, it was, it was, like, murky waters for me personally. And I... It was weird. Like, I'm not... I think I might have been the only guy almost to get canceled for doing his homework.

Tony Hinchcliffe 7:34 (laughs)

John Cena 7:34 You know? Like, for trying to, like, learn, like, learn, and, and try to do something. But the, the cool takeaway, you know, we can learn from every mistake. My mistake was just because you know the language doesn't mean you know the culture.

Tony Hinchcliffe 7:44 Did they even refer to it as Taiwan? I think they referred to it as Chinese Taipei, right?

John Cena 7:48 Man, what was in the th- I know what I read in, in the thing.

Tony Hinchcliffe 7:51 Oh, okay.

John Cena 7:51 So that's... Uh, again, I don't know enough depth to know that. And now, like, people are like, "Oh, man, can you, can you speak Mandarin for this?" I just won't do it. It's a skill that I have, and it's... But it's a skill that's gonna remain with me because it's, uh, I don't understa- I don't have the depth of field to know what to call that place in that region of the world. And I haven't done enough research, and I don't have the wisdom, and I don't have, like, the, the cultural fluency, you know?

Tony Hinchcliffe 8:17 Mm. Yeah.

John Cena 8:17 So it was a cool lesson. It, it sucked.

Tony Hinchcliffe 8:19 (laughs)

John Cena 8:19 'Cause I thought I was just trying to do something good, but it was, it was a cool lesson.

Tony Hinchcliffe 8:23 Was it r- was it really that big of a deal?

John Cena 8:25 Man, I, I thought... Like, I th- I, I was filming Peacemaker season one, and when they came out with all of this stuff, I went directly to James Gunn and was like, "Hey, man, if you have to fire me, I under- I understand."

Tony Hinchcliffe 8:37 Wow.

John Cena 8:38 And, uh-

Tony Hinchcliffe 8:38 It was that serious?

John Cena 8:39 Yeah, and it was-

Tony Hinchcliffe 8:40 But it wasn't even words that you wrote? Someone e- the WWE wrote it?

John Cena 8:43 That doesn't... No, no, it was, it was for the movie I was promoting.

Tony Hinchcliffe 8:46 Right. So the movie, the people that made the movie wrote it?

John Cena 8:48 So I don't know. Like, when you do these press tours, let's say if I'm doing a movie for Warner Brothers, let's say. Let's use Peacemaker as an example. I'm doing a global Peacemaker tour and we go into China or we go into South America. You meet, like, the PR person there.

Tony Hinchcliffe 9:03 Right.

John Cena 9:03 And they have all the stuff you're supposed to do, and they curate your experience, and they hold your hand. And they're like, "Okay, now we're gonna go to this station. And by the way, they just want you to do some shout-outs." And so anytime I go anywhere globally now, a- as much as I wanna, um, thank fans for their attention and, you know, investing in the product, I really shy away from, like, speaking the language 'cause I don't understand the cultural nuance, you know?

Tony Hinchcliffe 9:26 Oh.

John Cena 9:26 I just, I just wanna be like, "Yo, man. Thanks for watching what we do, and I love the fact that you're entertained, but I wanna speak to you at a level that I understand, that I'm fluent. 'Cause you're boots on the ground here every day, and I might say something that's a nice gesture, but completely fucking offend you. And that's, that's not good, that's not good for anybody."

Tony Hinchcliffe 9:42 So, was the teleprompter in English and you translate to Chinese?

John Cena 9:45 No, it w- It was in... No. Everything was in Mandarin. And in, uh, in Chinese they have the characters, which are virtually impossible for me to learn. There's like an infinite number. Uh, but they have, they also have what's called pin yun, which is, it's kinda spelled out in English with phonetics.

Tony Hinchcliffe 9:59 Oh.

John Cena 9:59 So it has the four tones.

Tony Hinchcliffe 10:01 Okay.

John Cena 10:01 So if you were to put something in front of me in pin yun right now, I could definitely read it.

Tony Hinchcliffe 10:05 Mm.

John Cena 10:05 And I got good at reading pin yun. So I was like, "Man, I could, I could send all these messages in Mandarin, and then more people will know about this movie, and more people will know about me, and more people will know about wrestling, and more people will be excited." Looked good on paper, just my follow-through was a bit weak, you know? (laughs) I just-

Tony Hinchcliffe 10:21 It doesn't even seem like that was your fault. Right. It's probably a PR's assistant's assistant that's type- that's probably in charge of doing the grunt work of typing in all the different languages and the different countries. Like, it's tedious.

John Cena 10:34 And you, uh, uh, from, from what I know, I know I'm gonna learn a lot about you guys in this episode. But from what I know about you, you're, you're into looking at, looking things through different lenses and different perspectives. It also could have been somebody being like, "I'm gonna get this kid."

Tony Hinchcliffe 10:48 Ooh.

John Cena 10:49 But here's the thing. I, I do appreciate you saying, like, it's not your fault. That's not true. It was my fault. And I think that's when I can start to work on, like, "Well, what did I learn from this?" And I could easily blame a PR, an assistant. I could say somebody had a target on my back, all that stuff. I fucked up.

Tony Hinchcliffe 11:08 Did you suspect that somebody might have set you up?

John Cena 11:12 No. Man-

Tony Hinchcliffe 11:12 Well, you're saying it like it's a possibility.

John Cena 11:15 Well, man, when it happened, everybo- every theory came... Like, here's the thing. The world doesn't revolve around me, but my little world, everybody was like, "They fucked up. They did this on purpose." I was like, "Well, first of all, who's they?" So I was able to kind of eliminate all that. And once I realized I could still go on working, uh, I, I really made a lot of people angry. And for that, that I'm sorry. Like, again, I was just trying to-

Tony Hinchcliffe 11:38 That's crazy. Just by saying that Taiwan's a country.

John Cena 11:41 In, in Chinese, though.

Tony Hinchcliffe 11:43 Right, right.

John Cena 11:44 You know, like, those are murky waters to begin with.

Tony Hinchcliffe 11:46 Yeah.

John Cena 11:46 You know? Like, I, uh, I'm not even thoroughly fluent on the US policy. I think it's like, like, uh, territorial ambiguity or some shit like that. (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 11:55 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 11:55 Like it's, it's so weird and it's, it's so fragile. And I, I, uh, I got into some water I shouldn't have been swimming in.

Tony Hinchcliffe 12:02 Wow.

John Cena 12:02 But that's, that's on me. It's not... It's, it was my fault. And, and I think that's important for me to bear the burden of that and be like, "Yo, what... How can I course correct? What did I learn? Who do I really, really genuinely have to apologize for offending?" The, the biggest-... thing that was a kick to the nuts is when, like, people stateside got pissed off.

Joe Rogan 12:22 Because you apologized?

John Cena 12:23 Yes, in, in Chinese.

Joe Rogan 12:25 Right.

John Cena 12:25 And, and I understand. It, I mean, completely like bowing down to the demand of this that, gosh, what a, what a shitty move by me. Like, I just, I should have taken a breath. Again, what did I learn? Don't be reactive.

Joe Rogan 12:39 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 12:40 Take a breath, find out what's going on, find out the best path of action. Maybe give it a few days, maybe give it a hot second.

Joe Rogan 12:48 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 12:49 Um, and then move forward. But immediately, I was like, "Oh, they're mad? You want us to do this? Fine, no problem. I'll fix it right now." Man, that, not only did I not try to fix the hole in the boat, I sunk the Titanic.

Joe Rogan 13:00 (inhales deeply)

John Cena 13:00 So, it was... But again, it was, uh, a learning experience.

Joe Rogan 13:03 Well, it speaks to your character that you don't blame anybody else, 'cause I'd blame everybody else. (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 13:07 (laughs)

John Cena 13:07 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:08 I'd be like, "Who fucking wrote that?"

John Cena 13:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:10 (laughs) "Don't you, don't you know what you're saying or what you're making me say?"

John Cena 13:14 Uh, the, the release you guys have for the show, I, I read it. And, you know-

Joe Rogan 13:19 You might be the only person. (laughs)

John Cena 13:20 So, that was, that was... Whoever handed it to me, that was what they said. Like, "I think you might be the only person that's ever read it."

Joe Rogan 13:25 Yeah.

John Cena 13:25 Man, if, if, if you're gonna, if you're gonna take liberties with me, at least I wanna be able to read that you are.

Joe Rogan 13:31 Right.

John Cena 13:32 You know what I'm saying? And I, I can't say I'm perfect with doing that. But like, I was handed a release. I'm like, "Oh, man, can I just glance this over for a hot... Oh, this says what I think it says. Okay, let's go."

Joe Rogan 13:40 Trump didn't even read it, just (page flipping noise) (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 13:43 (laughs)

John Cena 13:46 To each their own.

Joe Rogan 13:47 Yeah, no, it's very smart of you to read it. You know, who, who knows, you know?

John Cena 13:52 Who knows?

Joe Rogan 13:53 So, this is, uh... Tony, is this, is this the full trifecta now? Is like if y- you've gotten all of your heroes, uh, on this podcast now?

Tony Hinchcliffe 14:00 There's a couple more we can knock off out of the pro-wrestling world.

John Cena 14:04 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 14:04 There's a couple more.

John Cena 14:05 Talk, let's, if, if you don't mind, if I can indulge.

Joe Rogan 14:08 Please.

John Cena 14:08 Talk pro-wrestling heroes. Who do, who do we need to knock off? Who do we need to get in here?

Tony Hinchcliffe 14:11 Well, I mean, in all reality, and it's a diabolical, diabolical thing.

John Cena 14:17 'Cause man, 'cause man, he can, he can kind of invite, he... You can't. You can invite anyone you want in here.

Tony Hinchcliffe 14:20 Yeah.

John Cena 14:21 You just kinda gotta give him the wish list.

Tony Hinchcliffe 14:22 I mean, you gotta, you gotta start with the number one, without a doubt, Vince McMahon, who started this gangster shit and spread it around.

Joe Rogan 14:29 I would definitely have him in.

Tony Hinchcliffe 14:31 It was a little-

John Cena 14:32 Man, I...

Tony Hinchcliffe 14:32 Yeah.

John Cena 14:33 He would be great.

Tony Hinchcliffe 14:34 Yes.

John Cena 14:35 I... Whatever magic you have out there, and you have a lot of gravity.

Joe Rogan 14:39 Do you think he'd be interested in doing it?

John Cena 14:41 Are you kidding me? I think he would love it.

Joe Rogan 14:43 Really?

Tony Hinchcliffe 14:43 Yeah.

John Cena 14:44 I think he would love it.

Joe Rogan 14:45 Okay.

John Cena 14:45 I don't, I don't know when the right time is. But man, don't, don't miss out on that opp... At least, at least send it out to the universe.

Joe Rogan 14:52 Yeah. Well, I, I would definitely... Vince, if you're listening-

John Cena 14:55 Vince, if you're listening.

Joe Rogan 14:56 ... let's go. (laughs)

John Cena 14:57 I think this would be a great, I think this experience would be a great one for you.

Joe Rogan 14:59 Is he, uh, still involved? Is he out?

John Cena 15:02 No, he's out.

Joe Rogan 15:02 Is he in? He's out.

John Cena 15:04 He's out.

Joe Rogan 15:04 He's out totally?

John Cena 15:05 Yep.

Joe Rogan 15:06 It seems like he's the guy that'll be out for a little while and then something will happen that'll bring him back in.

John Cena 15:10 No, uh, well...

Joe Rogan 15:11 No?

Tony Hinchcliffe 15:12 Well-

John Cena 15:12 I don't know. Again, that's, that's way... We were talking about like, "Why is your last event in this place?" I'm like, "Man, 'cause I don't choose the events." Like, I don't... It, that, all that stuff is so far above me. But I know now he's out. I, I... In my eyes, I, I'd like to think that like time heals everything, and yeah, I believe in forgiveness. And, uh, I also believe in like looking at the body of work. But I als- I also know there's a lot of fragile stuff going on there. I don't know, I don't know, man. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 15:41 Yeah. It's a hot subject. It, it-

John Cena 15:43 It is.

Joe Rogan 15:43 ... could get us into another Chinese Taipei incident (laughs) just discussing it.

John Cena 15:46 Well, no, no. I, man, I'm, I'm...

Tony Hinchcliffe 15:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:50 (laughs)

John Cena 15:50 A- again, uh, I've learned to become a little bit more accountable for, for what I say.

Joe Rogan 15:53 Yeah.

John Cena 15:53 And, and just how, just because I feel a certain way about a person doesn't exonerate them from being accountable for their actions.

Joe Rogan 15:59 Right.

John Cena 16:00 And just because he did start, quote-unquote, "all this gangster shit," uh, that doesn't, that doesn't mean he doesn't need to be accountable for his actions.

Joe Rogan 16:08 Right.

John Cena 16:09 So, let's, let's figure out what that means. And then figure out if we can, if we can move forward and, and, and bring that back in the fold, or if, if it stays the way it is.

Joe Rogan 16:18 What do you think, Tony? Think he's coming back?

Tony Hinchcliffe 16:20 Uh...

John Cena 16:20 I think he would come here.

Tony Hinchcliffe 16:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:21 Yeah, okay.

Tony Hinchcliffe 16:22 I think he would come here too. And I think he, you know, that's one of the more entertaining people of all time. He created the entire universe. You gotta remember, Hogan's Hogan 'cause of him, Cena's Cena 'cause of him.

John Cena 16:32 I'm me because of him.

Tony Hinchcliffe 16:32 Yeah. Every single Stone Cold, he's like, "That sounds good. Yeah, keep it going. We'll do the glass breaks thing, and they'll throw you beers. I like it. Let's do it again next week." So, everything that we think-

John Cena 16:42 When he sits here, you gotta do that impression.

Tony Hinchcliffe 16:44 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:45 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 16:46 Yeah. Uh, yeah. Stone Cold's another one that hasn't been on.

John Cena 16:51 Steve would be great.

Tony Hinchcliffe 16:52 Oh my God.

John Cena 16:52 I think he, you, you would, you would dig Steve.

Tony Hinchcliffe 16:55 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:55 I'm sure. Yeah. He lives out here too, doesn't he?

Tony Hinchcliffe 16:57 Yep.

John Cena 16:58 Does he?

Tony Hinchcliffe 16:59 Well, actually, no, I think he's like-

Joe Rogan 17:00 Doesn't he have a ranch out here?

Tony Hinchcliffe 17:01 I think he does somewhere.

John Cena 17:02 I think he does.

Tony Hinchcliffe 17:03 Yeah, but n- I think he's based out of somewhere else now, New Mexico or Arizona. He's on the... He like, he's like kind of cool and reclusive. He like doesn't really do a lot. He, it's amazing.

John Cena 17:14 He'd be a good get. And I, I'm pretty sure, I guarantee he would do it.

Tony Hinchcliffe 17:17 Yeah.

John Cena 17:17 Steve, if you're li- I know you're watching. Come on. Come on. Come on in.

Joe Rogan 17:21 Yeah, we'll do it. Yeah, we'll do it.

John Cena 17:22 Let's talk, let's talk some wrasslin'.

Tony Hinchcliffe 17:23 The man. I mean, everyone has him on the, you know, the Mount Rushmore. Uh, Triple H, who runs it now, the son-in-law of Vince McMahon.

John Cena 17:32 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 17:33 I mean, he runs the entire thing.

John Cena 17:35 I mean, you want, you want answers to those high-level questions.

Tony Hinchcliffe 17:38 Yeah.

John Cena 17:38 There's your guy.

Joe Rogan 17:39 Yeah.

John Cena 17:39 That's the guy you need to get in the... A lot of the stuff you'll probably, you've probably asked, today I'd be like, "That's way above my pay grade."

Joe Rogan 17:44 This time of the year when life ramps up and demands more of your energy, more work, more plans with family and friends, and holiday travel, all while it's getting darker and colder out, you can let it all drain your juice. Or, you can get out ahead of it with AG1. AG1 is a daily health drink that can help you stay one scoop ahead of all the energy drains coming your way this season. Because the superfoods and B vitamins in every scoop of AG1 support steady energy production without the crash. In fact, just shaking up one scoop of AG1 in water covers your multivitamin, your pre and probiotics, antioxidants, superfoods, and more. It's one simple step to start your day ahead of anything that might come your way. And that's why I've partnered with them for years. And when you need energy support, AG1 delivers with superfoods and with B vitamins that help convert nutrients into energy for vigor and vitality. Subscribe today to get this clinically backed formula in the flavor of your choice, tropical, citrus, berry, or original to help you stay on-... one scoop ahead. AG1 has a special offer today. If you head to drinkag1.com/jroegan, you'll get the welcome kit, a morning person hat, a bottle of vitamin D3K2, and an AG1 flavor sampler for free with your first subscription. That's over $100 in free gifts. Just head over to drinkag1.com/jroegan or visit the link in the description to get started.

Tony Hinchcliffe 19:15 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:16 Well, you don't... If you don't know the history, Tony, at one point in time, was offered a job with the WWE before he really made it.

Tony Hinchcliffe 19:22 Yeah.

John Cena 19:22 No way.

Joe Rogan 19:22 Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was offered a job to write for the WWE because, you know, Tony was a giant pro wrestling fan and, you know, he'd already had a Netflix special, so he was known as a comic-

Tony Hinchcliffe 19:34 It was, it was before that. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:34 Was it before the Netflix special?

Tony Hinchcliffe 19:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:36 The first one?

Tony Hinchcliffe 19:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:37 The one that you released yourself?

Tony Hinchcliffe 19:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:39 Really?

Tony Hinchcliffe 19:39 Yeah. It was only a couple years into me doing standup, like, seven nights a week at the Comedy Store all the time. And somehow, I ended up... Someone's like, "Hey, I have a friend in WWE if you wanna have a meeting with them and just talk." And I went in with straight up ideas. This, that, the under- the Undertaker's brother comes back again, this, that, the next. Like, everything back and forth. I can't even remember any of them, it's been so long, but I went in with the whole thing. This guy's like, "Where the hell did you... Like, what... Oh, this is crazy. You just, like, did this?" I'm like, "Yeah, I found out a couple days ago we were gonna talk, so." But yeah, they offered it, but I would have had to move to Connecticut and take a train to New York every night to do, go do standup, and that would have just been exhausting. And everything I heard, 'cause Patrice O'Neal, the late, great Patrice O'Neal wrote for WWE for a while.

Joe Rogan 20:27 Did he really?

Tony Hinchcliffe 20:28 Yeah. Yeah, for, like, a couple years, I think.

Joe Rogan 20:30 What did he... Just write lines for them? Like, what did he do?

Tony Hinchcliffe 20:33 The whole shebang. When you're a WWE writer, they, they make you write. It's not, like, a cute job at all.

John Cena 20:39 No, it... There's a lot of... There's a lot of television, or there's a lot of content every week.

Tony Hinchcliffe 20:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:44 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 20:44 Right now, I think they got... They have three weekly shows.

Tony Hinchcliffe 20:47 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 20:48 So that's 20... I think one of them's going back to three hours.

Joe Rogan 20:51 Yep.

John Cena 20:51 So 16... So it's like, it's like 50 segments of TV-

Tony Hinchcliffe 20:54 Yeah.

John Cena 20:55 ... every week.

Joe Rogan 20:55 Yeah, but it's... I remember when you were talking about it.

Tony Hinchcliffe 20:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:58 When you were talking about-

Tony Hinchcliffe 20:59 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 20:59 ... potentially doing it. I was like, "Eh."

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:01 Yeah, it was tricky. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:02 I was like, "Dude, you do not wanna live in Connecticut."

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:05 No. That's the main thing. (laughs) If it was anywhere else other than Connecticut, it kind of may... would have made more sense. If it was in New York City, it would have been a no-brainer. If it was in LA, definitely.

John Cena 21:16 But, like, fast-forward. Now, you're, you're more and more involved.

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:19 Yes. It's amazing.

John Cena 21:20 Well, this is the crazy thing. Like, we had talked, like, uh, during the, the old days. Like, we would talk in the green room. I'd be like, "That would be your ultimate dream job."

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:28 Yeah.

John Cena 21:29 Like, to make it as a comedian and somehow be involved in the UFC the way I... Or excuse me, in WWE the way I'm involved in the UFC.

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:36 Yeah.

John Cena 21:36 Like, very similarly.

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:37 Yeah, it's-

John Cena 21:38 And look. (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:38 ... crazy. It's insane.

John Cena 21:41 No-

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:41 I'm going tomorrow night. I'm gonna be in the front row at the arena.

John Cena 21:45 Wait.

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:45 In my hometown.

John Cena 21:46 Are they here tomorrow night?

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:46 Yeah.

John Cena 21:47 Oh, man.

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:48 Are you messing with me, or are you gonna cu... Is your music gonna hit, and you're gonna pop out?

John Cena 21:51 No, I'm not there. I'm... I got one more left.

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:53 This is what they... This is what they do, by the way.

Joe Rogan 21:55 Oh, yeah?

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:55 Oh, yeah. Oh, I didn't even know-

John Cena 21:57 And then, and then-

Tony Hinchcliffe 21:57 ... they were gonna be in town. (laughs)

John Cena 21:58 So, he's correct. There's a lot of... There's... You mess with people, you're right, but then somebody like me will actually shoot you straight and be like, "I'm not gonna be there and I won't-

Joe Rogan 22:07 (laughs)

John Cena 22:07 ... be there." And you'd be like, "Ah, now I'm just... I'm building the equity for people to mess with people."

Tony Hinchcliffe 22:11 Exactly.

John Cena 22:11 Like, "I'm giving 20-

Tony Hinchcliffe 22:12 Cut to-

John Cena 22:12 ... 20 mulligans out there."

Joe Rogan 22:13 ... tomorrow.

John Cena 22:14 No. No.

Tony Hinchcliffe 22:14 Yeah. Music plays. (laughs)

John Cena 22:15 Not a chance. Not a chance.

Tony Hinchcliffe 22:16 Yeah. Exactly. I heard a great story. You'll probably love this. You might even know this story, but, um, the Undertaker, his wife, and his podcast co-host went to WrestleMania. They're up in a fancy suite. This was, um... Which one was it? The Rock, I mean, an appearance? Were... Did you... Yes, you were there, right? This... That huge finish at WrestleMania-

John Cena 22:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 22:36 ... like, three years ago where it was just boom, boom, boom, boom, and all these legends were, uh, coming out. And this huge finish just... Like, they, they can't even, like, follow it. The ultimate climax of a WrestleMania. And one wrestler comes out, interrupts this huge main event, and then another one, then another one. Anyway, the Undertaker, his wife, and his podcast co-host were up in the suite. Undertaker goes, "I'm gonna go use the restroom." They're like, "He's been gone a while." (laughs) The lights go out, the bell tolls. They're watching from the suite. He's been gone for, like, 10 minutes, 20 minutes. He went and changed real quick, and then now he's-

John Cena 23:07 Came out as the Undertaker. (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 23:08 (laughs) Yeah, came out as the Undertaker.

John Cena 23:10 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 23:10 They're in the suite like, "Oh my God, it's the Undertaker!" (laughs)

John Cena 23:13 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 23:13 It's like they don't tell anybody. (laughs) It's so old school and awesome that they keep secrets so locked up that their own loved ones... His wife didn't even know.

Joe Rogan 23:23 That's hilarious.

Tony Hinchcliffe 23:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:25 That is so crazy.

John Cena 23:26 It's, it's fun to be able to surprise a live audience.

Tony Hinchcliffe 23:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:29 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's gotta be a big part of it. How did you get involved in pro wrestling? Were you, were you a fan as a kid? And then-

John Cena 23:36 I, I sure was. I, I think we have the same gravity of like, "Man, I, I was a super fan as a kid," but then I fell out of it, admittedly, kinda when Hogan went to WCW. Um, so, like, I was into wrestling and then I wasn't, and then I got into sports or whatever. Uh, and then I got back into wrestling when everyone else did. When, like, Stone Cold Steve Austin became big, the Rock became big-

Joe Rogan 23:59 Yeah.

John Cena 23:59 ... the Attitude Era hit. And I was just, um, working a dead-end do., uh, job over at Gold's Gym Venice, and, like, didn't know what I wanted to do with my life.

Joe Rogan 24:07 How old were you?

John Cena 24:08 Uh, 21.

Joe Rogan 24:09 Wow.

John Cena 24:10 21. I had moved out to, to California, not to be famous or anything. My degree was in kinese, and I wanted to... Like, that was the center of the fitness universe in '99, 2000, so, like, all equipment manufacturers were there. I'm like, "Man, I'll go get a job with Hammer Strength or Cybex or, like-

Joe Rogan 24:26 Mm.

John Cena 24:27 ... maybe Gold's," or, like, put that piece of paper w-, on the wall to, to, like, get a good paying job. It did not work. So I ended up, like, front desk, cleaning toilets, selling protein bars, in that order, so don't ever buy a protein bar. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Tony Hinchcliffe 24:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 24:41 (laughs)

John Cena 24:41 But no, I was kinda like a jack of all trades over there, um, and a, a friend of mine, um, Chris Bell and Mark Bell-

Joe Rogan 24:48 Oh, I know those guys.

John Cena 24:49 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:49 Yeah.

John Cena 24:49 They literally were like-

Joe Rogan 24:50 Cool.

John Cena 24:50 ... "Dude, you talk about WWF all the time. You know we train down in Orange County." And at that time, Chris Bell was kinda, like, writing for this promotion. And they're like, "Would you wanna do it?"And I, man, I... That doesn't happen without them accidentally saying, like, "Yo, we-"

Joe Rogan 25:06 Wow.

John Cena 25:06 ... "we train to do this."

Joe Rogan 25:07 Bro, his documentaries are fucking incredible.

John Cena 25:09 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 25:09 Bigger, Stronger, Faster, and then the other one, the pill one. What was that one called?

Tony Hinchcliffe 25:14 Magic Pill?

Joe Rogan 25:15 No. What was the one... The- the addiction one, uh, that Chris released? But, um, Bigger, Stronger, Faster is, uh, such a fucking great documentary.

John Cena 25:24 The Bell family, I've been, I've been friends with them for a long time.

Joe Rogan 25:26 Great guys.

John Cena 25:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:28 That- that documentary, like, blew the lid off of, like, the reality of steroids. Prescription Thugs-

John Cena 25:34 Prescription Thugs, yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:34 ... is another great one. Yeah. Crazy thing is, he got addicted to pills while he was doing that, 'cause he had surgery while he was doing that, and got addicted to pills while he's making a fucking documentary on people being addicted to pills.

Tony Hinchcliffe 25:48 Wow.

Joe Rogan 25:48 That's how potent pills are. A guy making a documentary about addiction. He just thinks, "Well, I'm just taking these 'cause I got hip surgery and I'm in- in fucking agony." And then gets hooked.

Tony Hinchcliffe 26:00 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:00 Like, that's how crazy it is.

John Cena 26:02 Yeah, they're strong.

Joe Rogan 26:03 Yeah. I would imagine.

John Cena 26:05 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 26:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:06 Did you ever have an issue?

John Cena 26:08 No.

Joe Rogan 26:09 No?

John Cena 26:09 No. As a matter of fact, uh, I've- I've had fusion in my neck, right pec completely detached, reattached, both triceps reattached, uh, both triceps scoped. Um, nose relocated. Like, I- I got... I probably in... I'm in, like, 10 physical surgeries where they gotta go and correct something. Never taken one, uh, pain pill.

Joe Rogan 26:31 Wow.

John Cena 26:32 I have all the prescriptions in the bottom drawer of my house, filled. And- and it's weird because at every facility, the first thing they... the first hill they climb is pain management.

Joe Rogan 26:43 Mm.

John Cena 26:43 You wake up from anesthesia, you're, like, gray and murky. And I've been in a bunch of surgeries at a bunch of different facilities. The protocol's always the same. "Do you want something for the pain? Here, we gotta make sure you take this with you 'cause you're not in any pain."

Joe Rogan 26:56 Yeah.

John Cena 26:57 Like, I- I understand 'cause you... if you leave, if you're feeling okay, maybe you're high off adrenaline, I don't know, and then the operation sets in of like, "Holy fuck, this is a 10 out of 10. I can't... I need something." I get that. But I- I guess from falling down and hurting my body a lot, like, I know my pain threshold.

Joe Rogan 27:16 Yeah.

John Cena 27:17 And when I... The- the worst one was probably the putting the whole pec back on and then attaching it.

Joe Rogan 27:23 Oh.

John Cena 27:23 But when I woke up, I was able to, like, mess around with the stress ball and I never took one pill.

Joe Rogan 27:28 That's amazing.

John Cena 27:29 And I- I still have the- the full bottles of, like... Some are labeled 2008 is when I had my first surgery, and they're- they're just all there. You can-

Joe Rogan 27:36 There's a lot of people listening right now going, "I wonder if they're still good."

John Cena 27:37 You can count them all. (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 27:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:39 "I wonder if they're still good. I'm gonna find out. I'm gonna find out what John Cena stores them-"

Tony Hinchcliffe 27:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:43 "... bottom left drawer."

John Cena 27:43 It was weird because the- the medical staff couldn't- couldn't believe it. Like, they're like, "You don't want anything." No, because, man, it's, uh... I know how I am with this.

Joe Rogan 27:52 It's... Yeah, it's a fucking slippery road.

John Cena 27:54 And I would just... I'd be high on opiates all- opioids all the time.

Joe Rogan 27:58 I got my first knee surgery, I think, in '93 or '94, and they gave me... I got an ACL reconstruction, and they gave me Vicodin, I think. I'm pretty sure it was Vicodin. I took one one day, and I felt so stupid. I was lying in... lying on my couch watching TV, and I felt so dumb, and my knee still hurt, you know? It was just like it was distracting me from the fact-

John Cena 28:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:21 ... that my knee hurt. But I'm like, "I can't be this dumb. I'm dumb enough as it is."

John Cena 28:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:25 "I can't add to my dumbness with pills."

John Cena 28:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:28 Like, I just saw it coming. You know, and also, I knew a bunch of guys who had pill problems. I wound up selling my pills to a friend of mine that would sell pills that-

John Cena 28:37 Gosh, I should have taken your idea. I could have made some-

Tony Hinchcliffe 28:39 (laughs) Yeah.

John Cena 28:39 I could have made some cash.

Joe Rogan 28:41 I mean, uh, only made like a couple hundred bucks or something. I don't even remember. It was, like, in the '90s. But- but I remember just that one pill. And so then every surgery I've had ever since then, they always offered me stuff, but I never took anything. I got my other ACL reconstructed in 2003. Never took anything. I got an... my nose fixed in s- like 2008. I got a... my nose reconstructed, deviated septum.

John Cena 29:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:04 The guy was insisting that I... He gave me two prescriptions for pain med- medicine. And I was like, "I don't want anything." I was like, "Is it gonna get worse than this?" He's like, "It could get." I go, "Right now, it feels like nothing."

John Cena 29:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:14 It's like... But if you've been... Again, like you, you've been beaten up so many times, your body... You're so used to just being in pain. And I think for some people, just the- the daunting anxiety of pain itself is like they just want a pill before they even realize like, "I could kinda just... Yeah, it sucks, but it's not gonna suck forever. It's gonna heal, so let's just deal with the suck and just lay here. Put some ice on it or whatever and just relax."

John Cena 29:40 And, uh, a- along with that, it's kind of like your- your body's natural way of saying like, "Okay, maybe push a little bit more. Try to get a few more degrees of range of motion in physical therapy."

Joe Rogan 29:51 Uh-huh.

John Cena 29:51 Like, if- if those senses are numbed-

Joe Rogan 29:55 Right.

John Cena 29:55 ... and, like, shut off-

Joe Rogan 29:57 Right.

John Cena 29:58 ... first of all, you- you do feel just like, "I don't wanna do anything," so you won't work... In many cases, you won't work to do the work to get better, to get-

Joe Rogan 30:05 Right.

John Cena 30:05 Or-

Joe Rogan 30:06 You're just numb.

John Cena 30:07 ... you don't know the messaging. You can't listen to your body.

Joe Rogan 30:10 Yeah.

John Cena 30:10 Like, if it's really, really in pain, maybe it's... maybe your body's trying to tell you something. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 30:14 I always assume that people feel pain differently. I mean, I just would imagine. Like, p- like people feel hot sauce differently. Like, some people, they can't have any spice. Some people fucking can have, like, you know, death peppers and they're fine.

John Cena 30:28 So, all right, I'll throw that out to the group. Is pain a personal experience?

Tony Hinchcliffe 30:32 I mean, there's no way I'm as tough as you guys, so yeah, it has to be. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:36 (laughs)

John Cena 30:36 But I think in other dimensions, you might be way tougher. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe-

Joe Rogan 30:41 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 30:42 (laughs)

John Cena 30:42 I think there's something-

Tony Hinchcliffe 30:43 You don't know Tony. I can't imagine the dimension. I went and visited a firehouse the other day and I was going down the pole going, "Whee."

Joe Rogan 30:51 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 30:51 Like, you guys wouldn't do that.

Joe Rogan 30:52 I would do that. (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 30:54 (laughs)

John Cena 30:54 So- so in that- in that aspect, you're tougher than me.

Joe Rogan 30:57 Yeah, he can take ridicule.

Tony Hinchcliffe 30:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:59 Yeah, we can take ridicule really easily.

John Cena 31:01 But I-

Joe Rogan 31:01 But I don't know how... what it feels like for other people. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I would assume that everybody feels the same. But, you know, one of the reasons why I think maybe it is like...... d- it's different, but c- 'cause my mom, my mom has a crazy tolerance to pain. Like, my guy who, uh... My stem cell guy in LA, um, my mom had a, a real knee issue, and he was treating her as well, and he goes, "It's hilarious. Your mother's just like you. She just takes it." Like, she doesn't even flinch. She's stickin' it, like... He's like, "That doesn't happen with, like, 75-year-old ladies." Like, take a needle and shovin' it into their knee and f- and push it, and she just doesn't move.

John Cena 31:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:37 And, you know, she's like, "Oh, it wasn't painful. It was no big deal." It's like, you know, a lot of 75-year-old ladies would be fucking sweating and freaking out, seeing the needle.

John Cena 31:45 Pretty sure I would be, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:47 (laughs)

John Cena 31:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:48 But I, I, I, I don't know, you know? And I don't know what it feels like to other people. But, like, when I got my ACL, my right ACL reconstructed, it was a lot easier because it was a cadaver, and I recommend it to anybody. The difference between a patella tendon graph recovery and a cadaver recovery is literally, like, six months. The difference is-

John Cena 32:07 Really?

Joe Rogan 32:07 ... it's... The cadaver was so much quicker.

John Cena 32:09 Wow.

Joe Rogan 32:10 Oh my God, because the cadaver, they take it... I mean, it's all swollen and everything afterwards, but it's somebody else's tendon. They take an Achilles tendon off of a cadaver, so it's 150% stronger than an ACL. They fuckin' screw that sucker in place. Little tiny arthroscopic holes, not nearly as invasive, and then five days later... You know Matt Lichtenberg?

John Cena 32:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:31 I went to his party, for his birthday party, five days later, just walkin' around.

John Cena 32:34 Wow.

Joe Rogan 32:34 And he was like, "Did you just have surgery?" I go, "Yeah." It's like, "It's not that big a deal."

John Cena 32:38 Man.

Joe Rogan 32:38 Like, it feels fine. You know? It's, it was so much easier. The left one was brutal 'cause they take a slice out of your patella tendon, and then they take a chunk outta your shin bone and a chunk out of your kneecap, and then they use those to screw this new tendon that they created into the shin bone and into your, your thigh bone. That was rough.

John Cena 32:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:58 That one was painful as fuck and took a long time before it felt normal. It took a long time before I could go down on one knee again.

John Cena 33:05 When was that?

Joe Rogan 33:06 It was just painful.

John Cena 33:06 You said that was in the-

Joe Rogan 33:07 That was in the '90s.

John Cena 33:07 And then the other one was-

Joe Rogan 33:08 ... 2... Early 2000s. 2000, like, 2-ish. Somewhere around then, 2, 3.

John Cena 33:13 I mean, 10 more years of performing surgeries, 10 more years of medical-

Joe Rogan 33:16 Yeah, I just think it's the diff-...'Cause they still do that patella tendon graph, and I think Georges St-Pierre had it done that... Well, I know a bunch of people that I, uh, th- I'm friends with had it done that way, and I was like, "Ooh, don't do that one."

John Cena 33:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:28 Do the cadaver. But people are worried, they're like, "What if you get AIDS?" Like, you're not gonna get, Jesus Christ, you're not gonna get AIDS from it. Stop. And i- it's also, it's like, you feel better before you are better, unfortunately, because the way the tendon works... So when they replace a tendon with a cadaver, it's not like you have this guy's tendon in your body. What it is like is that tendon is a scaffolding, and then your body re-proliferates that with your own cells. So over the course of six months, my body had filled in all of what used to be a cadaver with my own cells. So you ha- you, you'll, you'll feel like it's better before it's better. So a lot of MMA fighters, they ru- they start training too quickly.

John Cena 34:12 Whew.

Joe Rogan 34:12 And they blow it out again-

John Cena 34:13 Man, that's-

Joe Rogan 34:13 ... 'cause it's still soft.

John Cena 34:14 That's always the concern.

Joe Rogan 34:16 It's always the concern.

John Cena 34:17 In, in any... Y- you feel good-

Joe Rogan 34:19 Yeah.

John Cena 34:19 ... and you're like, "Man, I can- ... I can do this."

Joe Rogan 34:21 Especially animals.

John Cena 34:22 And it's a little too early.

Joe Rogan 34:22 You know? Guys who are just used to pain and used to, and used to pushing, you know, and they just pop it out again. I know multiple MMA fighters that have had knee surgery and then blew it out-

John Cena 34:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:33 ... while they were recovering.

John Cena 34:35 And just a few months more, if they could just-

Joe Rogan 34:37 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 34:37 ... they'd be all right.

Joe Rogan 34:38 Yep.

John Cena 34:38 But it's the, it's impatience. You wanna get back in there.

Joe Rogan 34:40 And then it's even worse 'cause you gotta drill into the same holes-

John Cena 34:43 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:44 ... and pull it out-

John Cena 34:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:45 ... and open you up, and it's more invasive surgery. They gotta remove the screws and... Fuck. Yeah, but I just... I don't think everybody feels pain the same. I think it's a genetic thing. I j- I'm... I'm... It's just an assumption obviously, 'cause I don't feel what other people feel, but I think some people, it just... Any kind of pain is just... They can't function. They're, they're just in agony, and I think those people are way more vulnerable to the pills.

John Cena 35:10 Uh-

Joe Rogan 35:10 That's just my assumption.

John Cena 35:11 ... that, that's a decent perspective. I definitely... I, I, I would agree with pain is, is a, is a personal experience. Like, th- there, there are people who... I mean, I've seen people, like, "I can't believe you go through that," and then people will be like, "But you get the shit kicked outta you. I can't believe you do that."

Joe Rogan 35:29 Right.

John Cena 35:29 It, it's all, it's all relative. I would, I would be shittin' cuff links if you'd get that stem cell needle out.

Joe Rogan 35:35 (laughs)

John Cena 35:35 I would be sweating right until the fucking final moment. Like, some s- some stuff I can't take, you know? So I, I guess it is... It could be combined with, like, what we fear in life or-

Joe Rogan 35:45 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 35:45 ... uh, maybe, maybe fear of hard work or fear of effort. Who knows? I don't know. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 35:50 I think it's also being accustomed to pain. You know? So if you... Did you wrestle when you were younger?

John Cena 35:56 No, I, I played football.

Joe Rogan 35:58 You played football. Well, that's just like that, in that you're always in pain. I mean, if you're playing football, you're always colliding with people. You're always g- you got shoulders fucking with you. Your back's fucking with you. It's like, it's never-ending.

John Cena 36:09 I've, I've always said that there's something... There's some value in to losing a fight.

Joe Rogan 36:14 Oh, yeah.

John Cena 36:14 Like, I grew up with four brothers, and we'd kick the shit out of each other, and I'm, I w- I was not always on the winning side. So very early on in my life, as a young person, you know what it's like to lose a fight.

Joe Rogan 36:24 Oh, it's very valuable.

John Cena 36:25 And I think that that's... There's a lot, maybe, to do with the pain conversation there of, like, just flat out getting your ass kicked and then being able to dust yourself off and be like, "I'll get you next time." You know? Like-

Joe Rogan 36:35 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 36:35 ... it's not over. You know what I'm saying? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:37 Right, right, right.

John Cena 36:38 Like, yeah. We're brothers. We're gonna fight again, you know? Like, I-

Joe Rogan 36:40 It's also knowing, like, "Why did he beat me? What can I do to beat him next time?" You know? Like, if you don't have that in your life... Also, if you don't know what it feels like to get your ass kicked, you get a little mouthy.I mean, how many mouthy people do we know that have never been fucked up? And I think that's why. Like, there's real consequences if it actually comes down. You start yelling and you get mouthy, if it actually comes down to it, and we've all seen many of these videos on the internet-

John Cena 37:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:05 ... where someone just don't, they don't know what the fuck they're asking for or what they're getting into, and then all of a sudden they're getting hit.

John Cena 37:11 And man, uh, uh, I'm not perfect and there are days when I'm short of patience, but when it gets to that weird spot of like, "Yo, someone's gonna get hit in the face-"

Joe Rogan 37:19 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 37:19 ... I always try to, like, lean on diplomacy.

Joe Rogan 37:22 Always. Always. Yeah.

John Cena 37:24 Please, let's not do that-

Tony Hinchcliffe 37:25 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 37:25 Yeah.

John Cena 37:25 ... 'cause that fucking sucks. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:26 And I bet a lot of people say to you, "Man, if I was you, I'd be fucking everybody up."

Tony Hinchcliffe 37:30 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:30 That's the... Dumb people always say that, but, like, it doesn't end with that.

John Cena 37:34 No.

Joe Rogan 37:34 Then this guy gets his brother, or he shoots you or he'll run you over with a car. Like...

John Cena 37:38 Or you think you're gonna fuck somebody up and you get fucking handled.

Joe Rogan 37:41 Right. (laughs) Yeah.

John Cena 37:41 Like, you never know, man.

Joe Rogan 37:43 Yes. Right.

John Cena 37:43 You never know any- anybody else's story.

Joe Rogan 37:45 Especially today. Especially today.

Tony Hinchcliffe 37:47 Yeah.

John Cena 37:47 You know? You, you never know.

Joe Rogan 37:47 There's so many people out there that train today. It's so much different than when I was younger. Like, you would assume that, like, I assumed that a good solid 10% of all men you meet have martial arts skills now.

John Cena 37:59 It's-

Joe Rogan 37:59 Because of the UFC.

John Cena 38:00 ... the popularity of it.

Joe Rogan 38:01 Yeah.

John Cena 38:02 Cer- certainly, certainly in, in, uh, Western society, it's-

Joe Rogan 38:04 Yes.

John Cena 38:05 ... you know, the gym... There's a gym every plaza.

Joe Rogan 38:07 Also, there's so many kids that, like, watch UFC and then play practice with themselves, and you could learn a lot just doing that. You know, go- guys learn a lot just watching it on TV and then emulating it at home with their friends.

John Cena 38:20 You can tell those who watch WWE because when those moments happen-

Joe Rogan 38:22 Yes.

John Cena 38:22 ... they try to do some crazy move.

Joe Rogan 38:24 Oh, yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 38:24 Oh, yeah.

John Cena 38:24 It doesn't work. Doesn't- doesn't work.

Tony Hinchcliffe 38:25 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:25 Oh, how many guys have fucking thrown their buddy onto a conference table or something-

John Cena 38:29 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 38:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:29 ... because they thought, they thought it was the way to do it?

Tony Hinchcliffe 38:32 Oh, it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 38:33 You know? I mean, the fucking sheer amount of punishment you guys put yourself through is staggering. I mean, it really is staggering.

John Cena 38:41 But, but, uh, thank you very much. Uh, it is, it is all for the g- like, it's like a, a pro-football player, pro-hockey player, UFC, I think, I think the beautiful advantage that we have is that it's... We can, we can make choices on what we do. So, when you're in UFC and they close the door, it's kinda fucking best person wins. You know, you gotta... It's, it's survival. When we're in WWE and we both step in the ring and they ring the bell, we're working together. We're working together to put on the best show for the audience. And in that process, you can calculate the risks you wanna take.

Joe Rogan 39:13 Mm.

John Cena 39:14 And I think that's what allows somebody to be able to perform for 23 years. You know, I, I don't know what... I know that, that, um, age-old stat that everybody says about, like, the average NFL careers. What? Two and a half years or three and a half years?

Joe Rogan 39:27 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 39:28 I don't know what the stat is on average UFC career. Like, how long a... When... What's your window to be functionally profitable in UFC? But I know because our risks are calculated and we're working together rather than against each other, the math is, is way higher for you to have, like, a 10, 15, 20-year career-

Joe Rogan 39:49 Mm.

John Cena 39:49 ... in WWE. But that also is 10 more years of falling down, 15 more years of falling down. So you-

Joe Rogan 39:56 Yeah.

John Cena 39:56 It's weird. Like, you can choreograph the risk, but you have to do it time and time again. And, and the schedule in WWE just changed. Like, to do 70 matches a year now in WWE is like, man, you, you're a workhorse. We used to do 220, 230.

Joe Rogan 40:11 Which is so crazy.

Tony Hinchcliffe 40:13 Yeah.

John Cena 40:13 It's, it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:14 220 days of trauma in a year.

John Cena 40:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:17 'Cause you're getting... No matter what, you're getting some trauma. No matter what.

John Cena 40:21 It is.

Joe Rogan 40:21 A guy body slams you, something hap- you're colliding, you go off the ropes, you're smashing into each other.

John Cena 40:27 I get such a warm feeling-

Joe Rogan 40:28 Trauma.

John Cena 40:28 ... when, uh, first-timers go into the ring for the first time.

Joe Rogan 40:31 (laughs)

John Cena 40:32 It's like, "Oh, it's like a, it's like a bouncy floor." And then they fall down once and, like, the wind's knocked out of them and they're like, "My brain moved." Like-

Tony Hinchcliffe 40:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:39 (laughs)

John Cena 40:39 Yeah, yeah. Now you gotta do that again and again.

Tony Hinchcliffe 40:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:42 (laughs)

John Cena 40:42 But it's weird. I've, I've, uh, I've gotten to work with a lot of stand-ups and WWE is kinda changing. I, I would say it's on the progression of a stand-up making it to just, like, a stadium tour. But man, when I performed, my sweet spot, we ran very parallel lives. Like, you... I've worked every city. Hampton Beach Casino Ballroom to Madison Square Garden. Like, to the Saitama Super Arena to AT&T Stadium to Bangor, Maine or to Valparaiso, Indiana. Like, you, you go to all of these places.

Joe Rogan 41:12 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 41:13 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 41:13 And, and it's like Friday you're in one place, Saturday you're in another place, Sunday you're in another place, Monday you're in another place, Tuesday you're in another place. One day to drop your shit, one day to catch your flight out, do it again. Like, it's, it's, it's kinda... We, we're kinda like touring stand-ups in that regard.

Tony Hinchcliffe 41:27 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:27 Very similar.

Tony Hinchcliffe 41:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:28 Yeah. Exactly.

John Cena 41:28 And you're, you're responsible for your own trans, like... And I'm speaking from my day. I don't know how it is now 'cause I got one left and then I'm done. But, uh, you were responsible for your own transportation, booking your own hotels. Like, you, you were... They were just like, "Hey, we're starting here, we're ending here, good luck." Which is awesome 'cause you create... You... People are really independent when they, when they go through that fire. And you weed out the people who don't wanna be there.

Joe Rogan 41:51 Yeah, because the... just the sheer work. The sheer workload.

John Cena 41:54 Making those clubs and, like, making... Doing a tour.

Joe Rogan 41:56 Mm-hmm.

Tony Hinchcliffe 41:56 It's also-

Joe Rogan 41:57 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 41:57 ... the adrenaline. Like, it's like, what do you do after a night like that?

John Cena 42:00 Dude.

Tony Hinchcliffe 42:00 Most jobs, people can't wait to be done and then go home and relax and fall asleep. Whereas i- i- if you're doing stand-up or, obviously, wrestling, you are just...

John Cena 42:10 You're done late at night and you're like-

Tony Hinchcliffe 42:11 Yeah.

John Cena 42:12 ... "Man, what the... What a rush."

Tony Hinchcliffe 42:13 (laughs) Yeah.

John Cena 42:14 "Yeah, fuck."

Tony Hinchcliffe 42:14 (laughs)

John Cena 42:14 "What can I do better?" Or, "This is fucking killed."

Joe Rogan 42:16 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 42:16 Right.

John Cena 42:16 And then it's four in the morning.

Joe Rogan 42:18 Yeah, you're buzzing.

John Cena 42:19 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 42:19 Yup.

Joe Rogan 42:19 You're buzzing. And it's also... It's really hard to have any kind of a normal relationship because you're just constantly not home. You're constantly gone. Like, even your friends. Like, you got... You really... As a touring comic, the best thing that I ever did is start taking friends with me on the road.

John Cena 42:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:36 Instead of just working with, like, random guys that I didn't know in different towns.

John Cena 42:40 And look-

Joe Rogan 42:40 Those are fun sometimes. Sometimes. Like, you know, two out of ten times you meet a new friend.

John Cena 42:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:46 Eight out of ten times you're with some annoying alcoholic-

John Cena 42:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:49 ... who, you know-

Tony Hinchcliffe 42:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:51 ... who fucking sucks. And they're annoying and then they wanna take you someplace and, you know, you get in trouble.

John Cena 42:56 Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean-

Joe Rogan 42:59 Yeah.

John Cena 42:59 ... that, that's certainly, um, the, the normal life aspect of it. It's also...... like, at full tilt, it's a, it's a very absorbing thing, it's a very selfish thing. So I think not only you don't work regular office hours and you're a nomad, a gypsy, but especially from a WWE perspective, you, you have to... Like, you're a, you're a startup founder. You w- have to wake up thinking about it, you have to think about it all day, you have to go to sleep thinking about it. Wake up in, in the two hours of sleep that you get, being like, "I remember this line." Or, "Maybe we can do this stunt." Or whatever.

Joe Rogan 43:32 Right.

John Cena 43:33 And it's people who are in your sphere, at least through my perspective and my journey, man, if, if you were in my gravity from, like, 2002 to, like, 2019, I wasn't part of a team. You did it my way. Like, bus leaves at 10:00. If you're there at 10:01, you're fucking left. Like, "We're doing this and we're training here and then we're doing this and..." But it's, it's so, it's so the end product is good. So, like, the dream job of, like, "Man, I never..." Th- the six-year-old kid holding the paper belt can be an adult holding the real belt and get shekels for doing that. And I don't ever wanna r- I don't wanna put that in jeopardy, so you fuckers are gonna have to get in line or we're just gonna have to go. Like, it, you-

Joe Rogan 44:13 Mm.

John Cena 44:14 ... you know? I- I- I, I was absent a lot in relationships, because if it wasn't on my terms, it didn't exist.

Joe Rogan 44:20 Mm.

John Cena 44:21 You know? Because here, you got, you, you catch lightning out of a jar. I'm a kid from West Newberry who's, you know, come from a family of five and we w- There's always more broke, but man, we were a good level of broke. And then now, like, hey, if you just work hard at this thing, you can kinda not ever be that again. All right. Fuck this, I'm doing this thing all the time. But that comes with, "Hey, I'm getting married." Or, like, "My grandfather died," or, "I got a birthday coming up." Or, like, "Hey man, you missed another Thanksgiving." You're damn right I did, 'cause I'm doing the thing.

Joe Rogan 44:54 Yeah.

John Cena 44:55 You know? So the, it's als- For me at least, it was, it was that as well, of, like, laser focus, all things WWE.

Joe Rogan 45:02 Well, it's that and everything that you do where you wanna really be successful.

John Cena 45:07 It takes... Saying yes to the thing means no to everything else.

Joe Rogan 45:12 I had Jensen Huang on the podcast the other day, who's the CEO of NVIDIA. They're, like, one of the biggest companies on planet Earth, huge company. Fucking dude still to this day works seven days a week. And he was talking about when he goes on vacation, I go, "Do you go on vacation and just put it all down?" He goes, "No, I work." He goes, "Even when I'm with my family, I have to work. I'm working. I work seven days a week, I don't take a day off, I love it." And he goes, "And I'm terrified of failure." He goes, "That's my motivatio- My m- my motivation is not, 'I want to succeed.' My motivation is fear of failure."

John Cena 45:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:46 "And every day I show up saying, 'If I don't do this, we could fail, and I'm gonna work seven days a week.'" Everybody who thinks they wanna be a CEO, you think you wanna be a billionaire, like, you wanna do that? You wanna do that at, when you're 60 years old? Do you wanna be working seven days a week all day long from the moment you wake up? He wakes up at 4:30 in the morning. He says he answers thousands of emails a day. I'm like, "What? How are you... How is that even fucking possible?" Gets up at 4:30 in the morning, answers all these emails, works all day long constantly problem-solving, making AI chips. It's fucking crazy, right?

John Cena 46:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:20 But that's with everything. You wanna be at the top of the heap?

John Cena 46:23 When you see mastery-

Joe Rogan 46:24 There's only one way.

John Cena 46:25 ... yeah. When you see something difficult look easy, there's a bunch of 4:30 in the morning wake-ups-

Joe Rogan 46:32 Yeah. (laughs)

John Cena 46:32 ... that made that happen. You know?

Joe Rogan 46:34 It's, I think with everything in life.

John Cena 46:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:35 Anything in life where you really wanna excel at it, there's no shortcuts.

John Cena 46:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:39 Doesn't exist. That weeds a lot of people out.

John Cena 46:42 It does. It does. And there's a lot of... Man, armchair quarterback is the easiest and best position on the field.

Joe Rogan 46:48 Yeah.

John Cena 46:48 "I could do that. All I needed to do was do this." Sure, go right ahead.

Joe Rogan 46:52 Yeah.

John Cena 46:52 Take your best shot.

Joe Rogan 46:53 Yeah, good luck.

John Cena 46:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:54 It's in- it's interesting because it must weed out so many talented people. There's probably a lot of talented people that you've seen over the years that just didn't have that drive to constantly improve and succeed and really be thinking about what they're doing all the time.

John Cena 47:08 I, I like that statement, because I think the talent is doing it all. You could, you could have a-

Joe Rogan 47:15 No, you can have one. You, you can smoke if you want. I don't care.

John Cena 47:18 Smoke 'em if you've got 'em. We're, we're done.

Joe Rogan 47:19 We have, we have f- we have fans in here.

John Cena 47:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:20 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 47:20 Really?

Joe Rogan 47:20 We have fans of Sock Out All The Smoke.

Tony Hinchcliffe 47:22 Okay.

John Cena 47:23 I think this, the statement of, um, "Man, so many talented people didn't make it," they may have. They may be an acrobat.

Joe Rogan 47:30 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 47:30 They may be a fast talker. But that's not the only attribute that makes one special. Uh, you may be a great joke writer, but man, if y- if you don't master stage presence, I mean, you'll be a joke, a great joke writer with stage presence, but if you can't lug the tour-

Joe Rogan 47:46 Yeah.

John Cena 47:47 ... you're not, you're not talented for it. It's a-

Joe Rogan 47:49 Well, it's, it's really the grind.

John Cena 47:51 It is.

Joe Rogan 47:51 In everything.

John Cena 47:52 It's the all-encompassing thing.

Joe Rogan 47:53 Yeah.

John Cena 47:54 So when someone with great athletic ability decides that it's not for them, 'cause eventually that is... We... One thing about WWE, um, for all the arguments of, like, backstage politico, everybody understands the sound of money.

Joe Rogan 48:09 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 48:10 And no one refuses it. Like, "I fucking hate this guy, but I gotta give him another match." It may not be, "But I now have to give him a 10-year contract," but when they go out there, if the noise is there, even if the theys fucking hate you, you get another match.

Joe Rogan 48:28 Mm.

John Cena 48:28 I'm, I am proof positive of that meritocracy at work.

Tony Hinchcliffe 48:31 Yeah.

John Cena 48:31 Like, everybody fucking hated me.

Joe Rogan 48:33 Why'd they hate you?

John Cena 48:34 I was just real different. Like, I, I was just really different. I just-

Joe Rogan 48:38 In what way?

John Cena 48:39 Um, so I didn't rock- I didn't ruffle any feathers when I kinda, uh, entered the business, kept quiet, did my stuff, but I also didn't connect with the audience. And, and, and I don't know, maybe you guys see this in standup or not, but then I got, like, a personality of, like, the w- the white rap guy, like the, the white hip-hop guy.

Tony Hinchcliffe 48:57 (laughs)

John Cena 48:57 You know about that?

Tony Hinchcliffe 48:58 Yeah (laughs) .

John Cena 48:59 But, like, I-

Joe Rogan 48:59 Fugganomics.

Tony Hinchcliffe 49:00 (laughs)

John Cena 49:00 ... I fucking went, I fucking went all in. You know? Uh, Urban Gear, like... Uh, and I'm a hip-hop head, so it's like, "Oh man, this is my sweet spot. This is the, the, the avenue..." This isn't-... all of my personality, but this is one level that I can show that I think everyone will get. So if you go to Madison Square Garden, you'll get it. But if we go to Wheeling, West Virginia, you'll also get it. And you may like it in some places and hate it in some places, but everyone will get it. I will not be selling apathy.

Narrator 49:27 Right.

John Cena 49:28 But in doing that, I never followed dress code. I was saying disrespectful shit about my peers. Like, I kinda did it my own way.

Narrator 49:36 Mm.

John Cena 49:37 So I was, I was kinda ruffling some feathers backstage or just, ju- I was taking big swings, 'cause I was gonna fucking get fired anyway. The alternative was lose my job. So I was like, "Fuck it, I'm going down swinging."

Narrator 49:48 Yeah.

John Cena 49:49 And then the people behind the curtain were like, "Ah, the kid's disrespectful to the business. He doesn't care about the business." All the while, I just wanna keep my fucking job, you know? So, the theys behind the curtain weren't really invested, but they were also humble enough to be like, "There's noise out there. Gotta give him another match." And one match at a time, times 23 years of compounding interest, we're here.

Narrator 50:13 What did Vince think about your hiphop persona?

John Cena 50:15 Hated it and then loved it.

Narrator 50:17 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 50:17 (laughs)

Narrator 50:17 Hypoghos.

John Cena 50:18 He, he hated it and then loved it. And, and I think f- I think... I'm thinking for somebody, but in... I think from his perspective is... Like, when I hear somebody's idea for a personality, "Man, I wanna be this sports agent guy or whatever," oh, yo, I ha-... I have the idea of what that is in my head. And if their projection of that idea doesn't match my projection of that idea, I'm like, "Ah, fuck. I hate it." But that doesn't mean it can't work. So I think what maybe what happened was my perspective of the white hiphop guy from the mean street of West Newberry-

Narrator 50:51 (laughs)

John Cena 50:51 ... and Vince's perspective of John Cena, the rapper, we probably missed. Like, he had an idea and I had an idea. Uh, and usually he will craft it to, to his vision. I gotta give him respect for allowing me to, to kinda, to run with it, you know?

Narrator 51:08 Well, it's probably that fear of fir- being fired that, like, keeps you on the edge, too.

John Cena 51:12 Dude, that was it, of, like, uh, y- the NVIDIA guy of, like, "I don't wanna fail."

Narrator 51:16 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 51:17 Yeah.

John Cena 51:17 I, I got the sit-down of, like, "Hey, we're gonna cut you 'cause it's not working." Like, you, you're out there for your matches. You hear it the same th-... It's not working. And I... There's no argument there. I'm like, "Fucking all right. I got to touch the sun. I got to make it. I got to play for the Yankees. I got my one at-bat. I'm Moonlight Graham." And then they heard me rap in the back of the bus and was like, "Man, uh, uh, Stephanie heard me rap in the back of the bus."

Narrator 51:39 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 51:39 Yeah.

John Cena 51:40 And was like, "Yo, you wanna do that on TV?" I'm like, "Lose my job or fucking rap? Yeah, uh, let's go."

Narrator 51:45 (laughs)

John Cena 51:45 "Let's, let's do this."

Tony Hinchcliffe 51:46 Yeah.

Narrator 51:47 So it was Stephanie's idea?

John Cena 51:48 And it was a fucking accident, dude. It was an accident.

Narrator 51:50 Wow.

John Cena 51:50 It's my final, my final overseas tour for the WWE, and the boys just spend time. Like, that's the one time they get the whole group together, is overseas, 'cause you don't wanna be herding cats, like, in Amsterdam or something. Eh, everybody rides on the bus. You go from town to town. So, like, to pass the time, the boys just do whatever, and they would do a freestyle in the back of the bus. And I normally just fucking kept to myself 'cause I was raised in the environment of, like, keep your ears open, keep your mouth shut, don't do anything unless spoken to. So, I, I did that, but I didn't... I also didn't make any connections with people who were putting their lives on the line for me.

Narrator 52:23 Mm.

John Cena 52:24 You know, you... Some of the guys you, you really beat the shit out of, you're... in the rings are, like, your best friends. Uh, so I didn't have any of those connections. And I heard these guys rapping, and I just remember playing RollerCoaster Tycoon on my laptop, phone mashing up, putting it away, and being like, "I'm going in the back of the bus."

Narrator 52:39 Yeah.

John Cena 52:39 And just waited my turn and then filleted, like, 12 guys.

Narrator 52:44 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 52:45 (laughs)

John Cena 52:45 And Stephanie was like, "How the fuck did you remember all that?"

Narrator 52:47 (laughs)

John Cena 52:47 I'm like, "No, no, it's freestyle. You just make it up." And she's like, "Well, make up something about me." And we were boarding a plane, and I literally, like, utilized the plane, the people getting on the plane, what she was wearing, what she was eating. She's like, "Would you do this on TV?" And that's where we got a chance.

Narrator 53:02 Wow.

Tony Hinchcliffe 53:03 Wow.

John Cena 53:03 And it w-

Narrator 53:04 That's crazy.

John Cena 53:04 It wasn't, like, off to the moon. Like, I got a, a shitty chance on a small spot, and that worked. So then I got moved to, like, the dogshit Saturday night program that nobody watches. But the cool thing is no one's watching, so, like, I can do whatever I wanted. So I started saying more racy shit, and dressing more outlandish, and having more personality, and, like, claiming ownership of the show. I called myself Mr. Saturday Night. And it's the shitty show. You don't wanna be Mr. Saturday Night, but I did.

Narrator 53:33 Mm-hmm.

John Cena 53:33 And then that got another match, and got another match, and one by one, it kinda brought me here.

Narrator 53:38 Wow.

John Cena 53:39 Just a fucking happy accident, man.

Narrator 53:41 That's crazy.

Tony Hinchcliffe 53:42 All the way to-

John Cena 53:43 And even when the bells were like, "Hey, you want..." The whole thing's a fucking accident. "You wanna start training?" "Fuck, yeah. Sure. All right."

Narrator 53:50 (laughs)

John Cena 53:50 "Great."

Tony Hinchcliffe 53:50 (laughs)

John Cena 53:51 "And so you wanna start rapping?" "Yeah, fuck it. Sure. Let's just see what happens."

Narrator 53:54 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 53:54 (laughs)

John Cena 53:54 It's just-

Narrator 53:54 That's amazing.

John Cena 53:55 It was a happy accident.

Tony Hinchcliffe 53:56 And for it to go all the way to last year's massive heel turn.

John Cena 54:00 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 54:00 He went heel. Dude, I n-... I'm, I'm-

John Cena 54:03 That was this year, by the way.

Tony Hinchcliffe 54:05 Yeah. Yeah, that was this year.

John Cena 54:07 Yes, it's, it's been a great year.

Tony Hinchcliffe 54:08 Yeah. It's been a... It's crazy year. (laughs) Yeah, it has.

John Cena 54:10 It's been a year.

Tony Hinchcliffe 54:10 Yeah, that was. That was at Mania. Uh, uh, and, man, one... literally, perhaps... I c-... other than maybe Hogan, right? The greatest heel turn in wrestling history. When a good, good, good, good, good crowd-pleasing guy goes bad bad and dark, you had moments. The things you were saying, the way you were saying them, epic, iconic, iconic heel turn. Cold, dark, working with The Rock, he was in cahoots. That's the good guy Cody Rhodes.

John Cena 54:41 You can, like, see the peoples' faces. The, that's the fun thing.

Tony Hinchcliffe 54:43 Yeah.

John Cena 54:43 It's, like, uh...

Narrator 54:44 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 54:45 (laughs)

John Cena 54:45 S- this stuff is so simple, but it's-

Narrator 54:47 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 54:47 (laughs)

John Cena 54:47 It's the... If you take out the crowd in that situation and just put those three guys, it is really fucked up what we do.

Narrator 54:53 (laughs)

John Cena 54:53 But when you add the audience in the back and all of their faces and what's going on, that's what makes ..........................

Narrator 54:57 Bro, even your face.

Tony Hinchcliffe 54:58 Yep.

Narrator 54:58 You, you l-... You got, like, a mean guy face all of a sudden.

Tony Hinchcliffe 55:01 Yep.

Narrator 55:01 It's like you look like a different person.

John Cena 55:03 I was having-

Narrator 55:03 It's interesting.

John Cena 55:04 I was having a bad day.

Narrator 55:05 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 55:07 (laughs)

Narrator 55:07 Well, this is also when you'd already done a bunch of acting.

John Cena 55:10 Uh, yes. Like, this-

Tony Hinchcliffe 55:11 Yeah.

John Cena 55:11 ... is this year.

Tony Hinchcliffe 55:12 Yeah.

Narrator 55:12 Yeah.

John Cena 55:13 Yeah. This is, uh, February of this year. Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 55:16 How much of the creative control do you have over the aspects of that heel turn? Uh, like, for example, one thing that I thought was the coolest-

John Cena 55:28 My idea.

Tony Hinchcliffe 55:28 ... was I was in the-

John Cena 55:29 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 55:29 ... front row of WrestleMania, behind the Spanish announce table, so I'm directly across from the entrance, you know, the giant WrestleMania ... So a football stadium in Las Vegas. And there was no music, and it was a black background.

John Cena 55:44 Yep.

Tony Hinchcliffe 55:44 Normally, he's the most color with the most iconic, loud, wild music. No music, black background, and in white letters, it just said, "Cena."

John Cena 55:54 Mm-hmm.

Tony Hinchcliffe 55:54 And you just walked out with n- n- a- literally, the statement was, "I'm not here to entertain you people," basically, is what it felt like. And I loved it.

John Cena 56:06 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 56:06 I mean, w- this is the main event of Mania, I'm-

John Cena 56:08 You are so entertained by me not wanting to entertain you. Fuck, I fucked up.

Tony Hinchcliffe 56:11 Yeah. I have a-

John Cena 56:11 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 56:11 ... I've, I'm a, I have a, a degree in pro wrestling, but my master's is in heel-dom. Like, it's like-

John Cena 56:19 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 56:19 ... the bad, I just love a bad guy. And even ever since that bad guy turn, I feel like m- and I feel like most bad guy fans do, now newly connected with the back to the return of the good guy Cena.

John Cena 56:33 There it is. Yeah, there it is.

Tony Hinchcliffe 56:34 Oh, I mean, it's, it was literally just-

John Cena 56:37 I used to come out ru- like a Tasmanian devil.

Tony Hinchcliffe 56:39 Yeah.

John Cena 56:39 And then it just, just reversed it all.

Tony Hinchcliffe 56:41 (laughs) And it seems like nothing, but it's iconic. Just cold as ice. Everyone else, for four hours, coming out with colorful music and pyro and all this stuff, and there's the guy that normally did it the best and the biggest just really not giving a fuck.

John Cena 56:59 And WrestleMania, if you're gonna do it, like, the, you, you b- you give your best entrance for WrestleMania. And this was, I guess we were going for the shittiest one. (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 57:08 Oh, but it, but it just rang the opposite and simple and true.

Joe Rogan 57:13 The Octagon isn't just in Las Vegas anymore. It's right in your hands, with DraftKings Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of UFC. Get ready, because when Dvalishvili and Yan face off again at UFC 323, every punch, every take-down, every finish, it all has the potential to pay off in real time. New customers bet just $5, and if your bet wins, you get paid $200 in bonus bets. And hey, Missouri, the wait is over. DraftKings Sportsbook is now live in the Show Me State. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use promo code Rogen. That's code Rogen to turn five bucks into 200 in bonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

Narrator 57:58 Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. In New York, call 877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY, 467369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. Pass-through of per-wager tax may apply in Illinois. 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Restrictions apply. Bet must win to receive bonus bets, which expire in seven days. Minimum odds required. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co/audio. Limited time offer.

Tony Hinchcliffe 58:30 So, like, for example, those things, those details, that's you mostly pitching to the creative team? Like, like for example, like the, even just the white letters, the black entrance. Is that, how does that kinda come together?

John Cena 58:45 So I think that's, um ... I've, uh, uh, and I've been lucky enough to kinda take this perspective of not knowing everything and realizing that even, even with 23 years of fluency, I'm not the smartest guy in the room. I don't know the technology they have and what they can do. Now, granted, a black LED board, I, I could probably come up with that. But what I, what I like to do is lean on my resources. Like, "Hey, let's go to production and see what production is thinking." And I, I don't wanna tell them what to do, 'cause I wanna hear their ideas first.

Tony Hinchcliffe 59:17 Yeah.

John Cena 59:18 And production was like, "What if we just went basic?" I'm like, "How basic can you go?"

Tony Hinchcliffe 59:22 Yeah.

John Cena 59:23 "What if we just blacked everything out?" "Yeah, but I know, from what you guys have said, you also like to light the au- " "No, no, what if we just black everything out?" "You guys would do that? Oh, that sucks. Yeah, let's do that."

Tony Hinchcliffe 59:33 Yeah.

John Cena 59:33 So it's not, it's not me with all of these things. I don't, I don't have enough depth of field to touch all the bases, but I will go to every department-

Tony Hinchcliffe 59:42 Yeah.

John Cena 59:43 ... and say, like, "Okay, entrance is a big part of what we do. What do we do for lighting? What do we do for production?" Go to camera, like, "How do you guys wanna shoot it?" And then it trickles down when you talk to the talent you're working with, "How do we portray this message?" Uh, and then, of course, it, it starts at the top with, "Creatively, I wanna make you a bad guy, so we're gonna do that." "Okay, sure we're gonna do that. How do you wanna do that?" But it's, I think it's getting ... We have a lot of talented people, and just allowing them to do their job and, and let you know, like, "Oh, I was kinda thinking this." And then telling them, like, "Yeah, that's a good idea. Let's do that."

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:00:15 Yeah.

John Cena 1:00:15 You know?

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:00:16 That's amazing.

John Cena 1:00:16 'Cause I don't know what I, I don't know what I'd miss if I'm making all the demands.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:00:19 To show you the contrast, his opponent that night came out to, I think it was 40 people on red, white, and blue dirt bikes-

John Cena 1:00:26 Dirt bikes.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:00:26 ... all dressed like-

John Cena 1:00:28 Yeah. It's like ... (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:00:28 ... American people. The, uh, they, he-

John Cena 1:00:29 Nitro Circus. (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:00:30 He comes out elevated from inside of the stage wearing this super gaudy mask that he has to take off. Fireworks, fireworks, fire, sparks, smoke, all of these different things, and he just comes out blank-faced.

John Cena 1:00:43 I just got my Bunk sock on the back, just-

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:00:44 Yeah.

John Cena 1:00:45 ... right on.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:00:45 (laughs)

John Cena 1:00:46 There you go.

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 It's so funny hearing Tony talk about this, because for people who don't know-

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:00:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 ... the way Tony runs Kill Tony is basically a version of a WWE-

John Cena 1:00:59 Event?

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 ... event. I mean, it really is. Like, when he does the arena shows, he's ha- has everything set up like a WWE event.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:01:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:07 I mean, even the thing we did with Shane, when Sh- (laughs) when Shane was playing-

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:01:10 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:10 When Shane was playing Trump, when Trump and I were supposedly feuding online. Trump had said something about me online. And then, uh, Trump's talking shit, like as Shane's talking shit, and then the music plays and I show up behind him. It's pure pro wrestling.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:01:23 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 It's pure pro wrestling.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:01:24 And MSG's on their feet, shocked, you know. You're surprising this crowd that thinks they're just there for a comedy show.

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:01:31 And, "Well there's the panel, I guess that's what we're gonna have tonight." But the surprises, the ups, the downs, and then he brings up Joey Diaz. So it of like boom, boom, kind of like that big finish at Mania that I was talking about.

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:01:45 Like superstar bringing up a superstar, you know, music, music, smoke, fire.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 Yes.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:01:50 All these little things-

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 The more you-

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:01:52 ... when you pay to see a show.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 The more you make it important-

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:01:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 ... the more important it becomes.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:01:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 Yeah. I, as, when, what he's saying is, like, w- when Trump was there, this was as Trump was running for president and Trump thought that I was endorsing RFK so he got mad at me. So I said, "I am here to endorse someone," and I brought out Joey Diaz. I mean J- (laughs) -

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:07 We, we-

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:07 Which is great-

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 ... endorse Joey Diaz as-

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:08 ... because he's, you get a reveal-

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 ... president.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:09 But you get a different reveal.

Joe Rogan 1:02:10 Yeah. Oh, it was insane.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:11 And it's like, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:11 And everybody went nuts. And, but it's like the audience, they are into it like they're into pro wrestling. They want all the heel turns, they want all the chaos, they want all the, the-

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 ... the pageantry and the, the fire and the explosions and all the shit.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:25 Man, you get-

Joe Rogan 1:02:26 And-

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:26 You get any live audience, they're into all that. Like watch a college football game, watch a-

Joe Rogan 1:02:30 Right.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:30 Watch a soccer game-

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 Right.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:31 ... overseas, or, or a football as they would say. Like, the fans, it's, it's like a group think of energy.

Joe Rogan 1:02:38 Mm-hmm.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:38 That's fucking nuts.

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:02:41 Like audiences want it. It doesn't matter where you're at. Like what... Man, when comics just go out and light up a stage and they have that fucking stage presence and they just slay a set, the fucking audience is rolling in the aisles. Like they... You, you let them, you let them in. And they, they can help make a joke that might not hit the night before slay. Like it's, it's all about the moment, it's all about being there and, and reading the people. And the, the fun thing about WWE is you can, you can go out there with an idea and, and kind... I, I can only imagine this as kinda like standup where, if you got your set and you tell the first joke to crickets, you may try another joke and if that's crickets, you gotta fucking pivot.

Joe Rogan 1:03:19 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:03:20 So we go out-

Joe Rogan 1:03:20 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:03:20 We go out and do something and, oh man, they're into it. Great. All right. We have 'em, we just gotta maintain their attention until we get to act three, essentially. But if you hear fucking crickets, you're like, "All right, we're, we're switching it up. Fucking-"

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:03:35 "... we're gonna pivot right now." And you... That's the beauty, that's, that's one of the things that I love the most is the... It's not just me and the other person out there. Like, the audience is the act. Every-

Joe Rogan 1:03:46 Right.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:03:46 Like that moment only means something. If you put a blue screen behind the people, it is super fucked up. Like what the fuck are they doing and why does that mean anything?

Joe Rogan 1:03:54 Right.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:03:54 But when you let the level of the audience in, everybody's on their feet and they're going, "No!"

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 Right.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:03:58 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:03:59 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:03:59 It's fucking everything. It's everything.

Joe Rogan 1:04:01 Yeah. That's why Tony's so interested in the coordination of it all, and the setting and the sabotage, and all the chaos that's involved in all of it.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:04:08 But these are, these are human emotions that are universal.

Joe Rogan 1:04:11 Mm-hmm.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:04:12 Everyone understands betrayal, jealousy, anger, disappointment, failure, excitement. Like, these are universal things that you d-... If we don't speak the same language, you still have felt these things.

Joe Rogan 1:04:24 Mm-hmm.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:04:24 And you could watch that. No one spoke in that clip. But you could watch that in, anywhere in the world and be like, "That kid just got fucked over."

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 Right.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:04:33 "Oh, what the- what's gonna happen next?"

Joe Rogan 1:04:35 Yep.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:04:35 Like that's the beautiful appeal of it.

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:04:37 You know? It's, it's... We don't hit too far above our weight class. Like we, we try to send large scale universal messages based on true real human emotion that we all know. Yeah. And up to that day, that moment. Like even that thing that we were just telling you about me bringing, uh, him coming out, that being a reveal, him bringing up Diaz, was coordinated literally I think 15 minutes before-

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 Which is great.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:05:03 ... go time.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 Yeah, it's great.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:05:04 Like literally me with a, with a big piece of paper going, "Hey, Joe, what if we did this?" He confirms it, so I go to hair and makeup where they're finishing up Shane as Trump, which in itself is just hysterical. I pitch it to him, he loves it. I go to Diaz, I say, "Rogan's gonna bring you up," and, and the thing happens quick. Whereas with alm- you know, every form of entertainment that we're used to other than wrestling and like kind of, you know, Kill Tony in this instance, everything's so pre-planned-

Joe Rogan 1:05:37 Sure is.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:05:37 That if we over pre-planned it, we wouldn't have had the topical RFK endorsement, 'cause it was like news that day.

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 Yeah, sure. Sure.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:05:45 And, uh, so again, that inspiration, you know, totally comes from there. 'Cause what else is doing that? At MSG, 10 minutes before the show, reorganizing things to-

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 Reorganizing the show.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:05:56 So now we have to go to production and go, "Have Rogan's, uh, LED ready and then Diaz in that order." You know? It literally-

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 (laughs) And man-

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:06:06 ... comes from that.

Joe Rogan 1:06:07 And when it goes right, there's not a better feeling in the world.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:06:09 Oh, exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:06:10 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:06:10 I just get to sit back and watch.

Joe Rogan 1:06:12 Yeah. Well it's so funny that that connection with pro wrestling is really why you've made T- Kill Tony the way it is.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:06:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 Like without your love of pro wrestling, it would be such a different show. Like if it was just run like a traditional standup show.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:06:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 It's... There's so much else going on-

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:06:31 Totally.

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 ... that makes it the biggest show.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:06:33 Yeah. Well, it's long term storytelling. We had a guy on on Monday that had been doing it 14 years. And man, he just... His timing was off. He struggled even after the minute. I go, "You've been doing it 14 years?" He goes, "Yeah, man." I go, "What do you... How do you make money?" He goes, "I do this." I go, "You do this for a living." He goes, "Yeah." I go, "You must have better material. I'm gonna give you another shot. Do another minute. Here we go. Ladies and gentlemen..." And I introduce him again and he bombs again.

Joe Rogan 1:07:03 (laughs)

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:07:04 And literally, um, I was talking with it, about it with Stephanie after the show, 'cause she just happened to be-

1:07:11 ... at Kill Tony on Monday, and she goes, "God, a guy like that, you know, what hap- you know, what happens next?" I go, "Hopefully, hopefully, the guy gets pulled out of the bucket in a month or two, has a great set, puts it together, realizes, oh, his timing was off. He wasn't taking a breath, he wasn't connecting with the crowd. He was just memorizing his stuff." And it- the story begins to be told about this guy. And sometimes it happens in reverse. Sometimes somebody starts off, you know, fire hot-

John Cena 1:07:41 Rocket strapped to the back.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:07:42 ... yep, and then, poof. And that's kind of the sadder thing, right, is starting hot-

John Cena 1:07:48 Yeah.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:07:48 ... and then never being able to touch that again, have a moment like your first time.

Joe Rogan 1:07:52 Well, it's like, we were talking about people with talent. We all know someone who killed during open mic days, that we were like, "Wow, this guy's gonna be huge."

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:07:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:59 They have, like, undeniable talent, and they just can't manage it. They can't figure it out. They self-sabotage. They get addicted to drugs or alcohol, or whatever it is.

John Cena 1:08:09 There's- there are so many things.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:08:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:11 Yeah.

John Cena 1:08:11 It's not just the ability to go out and do the task well.

Joe Rogan 1:08:14 Right.

Tony Hinchcliffe 1:08:14 There's so many variables that will fuck you up.

Joe Rogan 1:08:17 Yeah.

John Cena 1:08:17 (laughs) Like, dude. You're right. So many- so many gifted people have just- just- uh, have that roadblock in front of them.

Joe Rogan 1:08:26 Which is why I think conversations with successful people are so important, because you get to hear those stories. You get to hear, like with Jensen the other day, he was talking about how NVIDIA was basically bankrupt. They were- they were on their way out, and someone gave them a chance. Like some- some- one guy that was an investor gave them a chance, and then they wound up becoming successful. And then th- there was this- these moments, and people need to know that you're gonna have those hurdles. There's- you're gonna have those roadblocks. You're gonna have to figure out how to adjust. Y- it's not easy. None of- no one who has been successful at anything will tell you the whole ride was easy.

John Cena 1:09:03 Yeah, but a lot of the time, sometimes- man, sometimes we'll be in it... I- I- so, I've been through, like, three generations of knowledge and learning, uh, 23 years in- in the business, uh, operating at a high level. I have seen thousands. And like, it is the... Man, if you're a stud in Pee Wee Football League, then you go to this junior high school, and then you're the number one player in college, and then you're the number on- uh, number one