Joe Rogan Experience #2433 - James McCann

Narrator 0:01 (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) What's happening, baby? Hello. That's fucking good.

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:15 Is this where we start it, that we going?

Joe Rogan 0:17 Where start ... Oh, oh no.

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:20 (laughs)

Narrator 0:20 Not over the relics.

Joe Rogan 0:21 The dirty, dirtier this, uh, table is, the better.

Narrator 0:24 Get it away from the ... What is that?

Joe Rogan 0:27 The relics. That is, uh, that's from my friend, John Reeves. He gave that to me. That's a mastodon tooth, or woolly mammoth, or what's the difference? What is the difference between woolly mammoth and a mastodon? They must be a different-

Narrator 0:39 One is a bitch.

Joe Rogan 0:41 ... age, a different era. But, uh, that's a giant tooth that (grunts) he ... There's a company in Alaska, I forget the name, but they, uh ... It kinda seems fucked to carve into this thing, 'cause it is 10,000 years old at least.

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:53 How many of them are there, though? Do they have heaps of them?

Joe Rogan 0:55 They have heaps of them.

James Donald Forbes McCann 0:55 Oh, that's-

Joe Rogan 0:56 But this is really cool. It's like they carved, uh, a mammoth in it. So what is the difference? According to our sponsor, Perplexity-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03 ... a woolly mammoth and a mastodon were related, but quite different ice age elem- elephants. Mammoths were taller, more slightly built grass eaters, while mastodons were shorter, stockier browsers that ate woody plants. Okay.

Narrator 1:17 I was gonna say the hair, maybe, but I don't ... It's obviously more-

Joe Rogan 1:21 Woolly mammoth, right? Yeah, mastodon looks like a elephant.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:23 Yeah, the mastodon horn does look cooler.

Joe Rogan 1:26 They're pretty cool. They're all pretty cool. Do you know? They lived on an ... Was it ... What ... When were the last mastodons? I wanna think ... I wanna say they lived on island until, like, 10,000 years ago or something like that, 'cause most of 'em died out. They don't, they don't know how they died out, but the- there's two theories. One, one theory is people killed them all, which is a sh- shaky theory, 'cause it's people of 10,000 years ago with fucking sticks.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:57 Were they around 10,000 years ago?

Joe Rogan 1:58 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they died-

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:00 We definitely did that then.

Joe Rogan 2:01 I don't think so. I think it was a cataclysm. I think it was the same thing that killed 65% of all megafauna.

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:08 That's the problem. It killed so many different animals, like, almost instantaneously.

Narrator 2:11 Uh, mammoths were extinct around 4,000 years ago.

Joe Rogan 2:11 Yeah, that's it. 4,000 years ago. Wrangel Island, remote Arctic island off Siberia's coast, had the last woolly mammoths-

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:20 Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:20 ... till about 4,000 years ago. Isn't that nuts?

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:22 That's nothing.

Joe Rogan 2:23 That's nuts. Yeah, that's, like, before the pyramids were built.

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:28 It's-

Joe Rogan 2:28 No, I mean after the pyramids were built, rather.

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:29 It's like similar time. Yeah, after.

Joe Rogan 2:31 Yeah, after the pyramids.

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:33 After.

Joe Rogan 2:33 Allegedly. I think they were probably built earlier than that, but the, uh, official date is 2,500 BC.

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:38 I'm not ... I've seen that strange man with the beard and the-

Joe Rogan 2:40 Which one?

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:41 That man you had on to debate it, who's always clapping back on Twitter and going like, "There's nothing funny about the-"

Joe Rogan 2:46 Oh, Flint Devil?

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:48 Yeah. Poor fella.

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:48 I don't want to invoke his ire. I don't want him ... He seems like-

Joe Rogan 2:50 Yeah, he's got a lot of ire.

James Donald Forbes McCann 2:51 He's got a lot of time and a lot of hate.

Joe Rogan 2:52 I actually enjoyed talking to him about non-archaeol- ... Non-, you know, ancient history-related stuff. He has some interesting things about seeds. Like, he does a lot of work in seeds.

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:03 Okay. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:04 No, it's real-

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:05 It's actually really interesting how-

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:06 Like the history of seeds and-

Joe Rogan 3:07 Yeah, when ... So say if you have a wild plant, then can you tell the difference between a wild plant and an agriculturally grown plant?

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:14 And the way is the seeds change. So when you have a wild seed, it is, uh, more conducive to the growth of the plant if the seeds break off easier and scatter, and, and they, they get into the ground easier. So they, they break free of the plant. But then when you use agriculture, the seeds don't become important for the creation of new plants because you're always taking the seeds anyway and planting the seeds, right? So those steeds- seeds are more robust and they hang on more.

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:43 So you could s- You could tell by looking at the actual seeds themselves whether it's an agriculturally based seed or whether it's a wild seed.

James Donald Forbes McCann 3:53 That is good. I hadn't thought about that.

Joe Rogan 3:54 Yeah, it's r- It was really cool. That part was cool. The, the, the shittiness is not cool in calling Graham Hancock a, a racist. They do that with, like, everyone. Everyone who has anything to say about, uh, the historical narrative that doesn't fit into exactly what they're teaching or what they have been teaching, they're, like, so unwilling to accept that there's any alternative timeline. But they keep getting fucked because over and over again, they keeping finding these new things that are older and older.

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:24 Yeah, but this happens every-

Joe Rogan 4:25 Like, go back ... He was the big one. It happens in every discipline.

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:29 Yeah. I mean, it happens in comedy. There's people that don't like new comedians that are coming up 'cause they don't like what they're doing differently or they-

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:35 You said a thing last night about prop comedy.

Joe Rogan 4:37 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:37 You're like, everyone just stop doing prop comedy at a certain point. I s-

Joe Rogan 4:39 Well, it's 'cause of Carrot Top.

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:40 It's 'cause of Carrot Top, and also because the bullying you would receive-

Joe Rogan 4:43 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 4:44 ... at the moment for having props. There's one, Rick Glassman. Am I getting his name right? I don't know. But he had some props, and he was really funny, and he got away with it. But he's the only person in America, other than Carrot Top, I've seen with any props.

Joe Rogan 4:54 But when I started out, there was a bunch of guys who had props. There was a, there was a bunch of guys who had props, and it was fun. It was fun to watch. There was a ... God is it ... Doctor Wid? I forget his name. Doctor Wiz? I forget his name, but he was a, a guy when I first started out in like the 1980s. He had p- props, and he was good. He was a funny comic.

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:17 But it'll be cyclical. It'll come back, like ladies with ukuleles had to go away for a time.

Joe Rogan 5:22 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:22 It was necessary that we purge ukulele women from comedy.

Joe Rogan 5:25 How many were there?

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:26 Oh my God, I don't know. There was ... Is this him?

Narrator 5:28 Doctor ... The legendary Wid?

Joe Rogan 5:30 That's it, the legendary Wid. Yeah, that's the dude, and he, uh, would do, like, science-based humor. He was a funny guy. So this is ... You know, I saw him in like '88, '88, '89.

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:43 But the point was that guy was really funny when he started busting out the props.

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:47 And, uh, and we were all like ... I was like, "Why don't you just do prop?"

James Donald Forbes McCann 5:50 This is your thing.

Joe Rogan 5:51 Yeah. Like that kind of humor, his kind of humor, it's almost like it's missing something in just the, just the straight standup form.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:00 But there's like, there's waves of ... Things become trendy, and then people who can't really do it very well jump onto it, and then it gets lame, and people stop doing it.

Joe Rogan 6:07 Well, a lot of it is one guy gets really successful doing it-

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:11 ... and then that becomes his thing.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:13 We had a run of people pretending to be retarded.... in Australia. It was like five years.

Joe Rogan 6:17 How hard did they try? (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:18 Uh, really hard.

Joe Rogan 6:19 Were they on the border and just, like, slowed it down a little?

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:21 People had... No, no. Weird sweaters, people having, like, fireworks that they would fire into themselves. And everyone would, like, come out with cards and read their act.

Joe Rogan 6:28 That's what happens when you take away everyone's guns.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:30 They're trying to take them away again, again.

Joe Rogan 6:32 Again, again.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:32 They already took them all away.

Joe Rogan 6:34 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:34 And then somehow we still had a massive shooting. And now the response is, "Well, maybe we could take even more of them away."

Joe Rogan 6:41 Um, what was the nationality of the people that caused the shooting?

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:44 The son, I think, was born in Australia and the dad... There was a big fight over it on Twitter where people were going, "He's Pakistani."

Joe Rogan 6:50 Right. I remember that, but I didn't... I don't anymore.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:52 He's not quite Pakistani. No.

Joe Rogan 6:53 I don't anymore. I don't get in there.

James Donald Forbes McCann 6:54 The, the big argument was over the religion of the hero who took one of the guns away. So like, the cops were apparently cowering.

Joe Rogan 7:02 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:02 That's the narrative. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 7:04 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:04 But one guy ran up and... It's G- a great video of a guy, like, he's s- he runs at a guy with a gun.

Joe Rogan 7:10 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:10 And wrestles the gun off him, and aims the gun at him, and lets the... He does let the guy get away. He doesn't want to kill him. But then-

Joe Rogan 7:16 Which is kind of crazy. The guy just kills how many people?

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:19 Oh, and then i think the guy gets a gun and goes on killing people. But he-

Joe Rogan 7:21 No.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:22 Yeah. But he's not a killer, this guy who wrestled the gun off him. He was just a heroic man.

Joe Rogan 7:25 Well, beat him in the head with a butt, like in the movies.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:27 I don't know what I... I mean, I wouldn't have ever s-

Joe Rogan 7:28 He hit him and then they go to sleep.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:29 I would never run up to a man with a gun. I would have been out of there. But the argument was what religion was the guy who took the gun because people on the right really didn't want him to be a Muslim. They were like... It was a huge thing on X of people going-

Joe Rogan 7:41 People on the right didn't want him to be a Muslim?

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:43 Yeah. Because it was Muslim shooters, but then it, it looked like he was a M- his name was like Ahmed Al-Ahmed or something.

Joe Rogan 7:47 But hold on, why would the people on the right not want him to be a Muslim?

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:50 Because then you can go, this is a Muslim thing. Muslims were doing the shooting and we can just go, "Let's deal with the Muslims."

Joe Rogan 7:55 Oh, you mean the people, the guy who captured the guy?

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:57 The guy who wrestled the gun off him-

Joe Rogan 7:58 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 7:58 ... was also a Muslim, which then makes it like-

Joe Rogan 8:01 Oh. So was he?

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:02 ... ah, the heroic... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:02 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:03 Well, his name is like Mohammed Mohammedson.

Joe Rogan 8:06 Imagine being a regular Muslim and having to deal with these crazy modified versions of sh-

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:09 Oh, Dhokesh. There he is.

Joe Rogan 8:10 That guy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:11 Yeah. People love him. But, many people-

Joe Rogan 8:13 Why didn't he shoot the guy in the foot? If you didn't want to kill him, shoot him and blow his fucking ankle off.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:18 (laughs) Because no one can really do that, and then it's a big... Look at him go.

Joe Rogan 8:21 Oh, that's amazing. And he doesn't do anything.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:24 He doesn't do... no.

Joe Rogan 8:25 And so the guy just gets away?

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:26 The guy does get away.

Joe Rogan 8:28 Oh, this is not good.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:29 But then after he lets him get away, I think he drops the gun and he goes away and then he gets shot again in the arm.

Joe Rogan 8:35 Oh, my God.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:35 But who knows what to do when there's a live-

Joe Rogan 8:37 Yeah, you don't know what to do. Well, that's a n- good person. That's a good person he didn't want to kill anybody.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:41 He, he is a national hero at the moment and, uh, I think if he had... Man, people wanted him to be a Maronite Christian so bad.

Joe Rogan 8:49 Hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:49 The groypers were desperate for him to be. There was a lot of people going, "Well, actually."

Joe Rogan 8:52 I, you know, that's the real problem we have in this country. We want to pretend that people actually exist in groups.

James Donald Forbes McCann 8:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:58 Even if there's high percentages of people from groups that are doing bad things, there's, there's still a giant percentage that are not and to alienate all those people by just lumping it all in as one group together. Imagine, like imagine you're a peaceful Muslim and you have to deal with this shit.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:13 Oh, dude.

Joe Rogan 9:14 And you're like, "Guys, I just want to pray."

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:16 "I'm just trying to, like, find oneness with God. That's all I'm trying to do."

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:19 I love twirling.

Joe Rogan 9:21 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:21 I'm one of the twirling ones. (laughs) They're my favorite ones personally.

Joe Rogan 9:25 What's a twirling?

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:25 The Twirling Dervishes. They just love twirling.

Joe Rogan 9:27 Oh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:28 They love to twirl.

Joe Rogan 9:29 Oh. Oh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:29 But the-

Joe Rogan 9:30 Twirling.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:30 It's twirl.

Joe Rogan 9:31 I was trying to figure out what you were saying. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:32 Twirling.

Joe Rogan 9:33 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:33 But this is what's we... So after that, the government comes out and is, like, cracking down on right wing extremism.

Joe Rogan 9:39 Mm-hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:39 Because it's a lefty government and they go, "We have a pr- clearly we have a problem with right-wing extremism." So now they're trying to reclassify, like, you know, globalized, infidelted jihadism as a form of right-wing extremism. Which I'd never, which like, yeah, I guess it's not-

Joe Rogan 9:55 Well, you have to-

James Donald Forbes McCann 9:55 ... commie lefty stuff, but-

Joe Rogan 9:57 Well, you have to look at it on paper. Objectively, it is.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:00 Yeah, but I don't know how much they hang out. I don't know if these guys-

Joe Rogan 10:03 They don't.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:03 I don't think these guys are reading, like, I don't know, William F. Buckley Jr. and stuff.

Joe Rogan 10:09 It's still, uh, let, let's break down what is right wing then, okay?

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:13 Let's say this. Okay. Do they want to completely control women's behavior and completely dictate whether or not the woman can leave the house with certain clothes on, what they're allowed to do? Right?

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:27 That sounded kind of a right-wing thing, isn't it?

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:29 Yes.

Joe Rogan 10:30 Total religious ad- adherence. They want a religious state.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:34 Yeah, but the Taliban want to dance with little boys.

Joe Rogan 10:36 Okay.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:36 That seems like a left-wing thing. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:37 That's a separate break-off group. They're like the Baptists. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:41 They're like the Catholics. You know what I mean? You got your regular Christians.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:45 We deny that.

Joe Rogan 10:45 And then you got some other motherfuckers that are out there running wild with new rules.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:49 But you're talking mainline.

Joe Rogan 10:49 Mormons. How about this? You know what I mean?

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:51 What, Mormons?

Joe Rogan 10:52 Yeah. You know, but, but that's what I'm saying.

James Donald Forbes McCann 10:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:54 It's like their break-off group. It's not... The ones that are banging the boys, that's not normal. There's a lot of guys out there that are Muslim that are not banging boys. So when you connect them with the Taliban, they're like, "Hey, bro, I'm just praying over here."

James Donald Forbes McCann 11:07 It's all people just trying to have fun.

Joe Rogan 11:10 Yeah, yeah, but-

James Donald Forbes McCann 11:10 Who am I to judge anybody?

Joe Rogan 11:12 The problem is then you push, when you push these people, it's the same thing that happens when you call everyone a racist. What do you get? You get a Nick Fuentes. You get a guy who emerges, he's got the balls to shit talk and have fun and say wild things that are very inappropriate and sometimes racist. That's what you get. You get... Someone embraces that guy because you've been told you're a racist just for being white.

James Donald Forbes McCann 11:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:33 You know, you've been told there's something wrong with you, white male. Like I, there was a time where someone would say something in comments all the time, I'd watch these people arguing. And someone, w- it was a common thing to say, uh, "As a white man, I think you should probably shut your fucking mouth." Like as a white man, like you're a white man, you're disqualified from having an opinion on something because you are a white man.

James Donald Forbes McCann 11:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:55 It's another form of racism. It's just an accepted form of racism that's really weird.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:00 But then you... Like, so like Nick Fuentes is getting all his other ideas through as well, because he was the only person saying...... things that the average person would think was kinda normal.

Joe Rogan 12:09 Well, he was-

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:09 I've been thinking about this a lot, because Andrew Tate-

Joe Rogan 12:10 ... but then he wasn't. A lot of the stuff, so you're saying, he, that was not something-

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:14 Yes.

Joe Rogan 12:14 ... the average person would think is normal.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:15 But you sneak your other weird stuff through. Like, when everyone's going-

Joe Rogan 12:18 Right, right, right, right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:19 Um, you know, like when he says, when he's getting attacked for going like, "A Black neighborhood is gonna be more violent in, on average in America." You go, "Yes, I've traveled around the country and that is ... I think there's a long history for why that's true."

Joe Rogan 12:30 Well, it's factually correct.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:32 That seems to be correct.

Joe Rogan 12:33 The, the question is though, why? And that's where it gets uncomfortable.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:38 Because the, the real reason for why is a f- a host of factors. But the primary one is crime and poverty. The primary one is they live in a community that's filled with crime and poverty.

James Donald Forbes McCann 12:51 Yes.

Joe Rogan 12:51 And if you have a f- and drugs. And if you have a community where people are selling drugs and it's crime and poverty, you're gonna get a lot of violence. Whether it's an Italian community, Armenian community, or any community where you've got a lot of crime and a lot of poverty.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:03 I first came here, I went to Appalachia.

Joe Rogan 13:04 People are gonna get killed.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:05 There are white people-

Joe Rogan 13:06 Oh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:06 ... doing crazy-

Joe Rogan 13:07 Wild-

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:07 ... crazy things.

Joe Rogan 13:08 You ever see the Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia?

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:10 I watched it like a week ago.

Joe Rogan 13:11 Fucking amazing.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:12 The most charismatic family I've ever seen.

Joe Rogan 13:14 Knoxfield did that, didn't he?

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:16 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:16 He was-

Joe Rogan 13:16 He produced that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:17 ... executive producer.

Joe Rogan 13:17 Yeah. Bro, that dude-

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:18 It made me feel so homesick. Look, dude, I got ... I was only there for a couple of months. I wanted to go back so badly.

Joe Rogan 13:23 The Dancing Outlaw? (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:25 He's, one of they're like, granddaddy had a new way of dancing and it's the most insane-

Joe Rogan 13:30 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:31 Like, was that really gonna take off?

Joe Rogan 13:32 It did.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:33 Was that the style of dancing?

Joe Rogan 13:34 Bro, when you're on meth, it's awesome.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:36 I mean, meth was the least danceable-

Joe Rogan 13:37 It's the perfect dance style.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:38 ... they were.

Joe Rogan 13:38 Oh, they were on everything.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:39 They were on the lot.

Joe Rogan 13:40 The, how about the lady, "I'm always been thought of as the sexy one." She was a stripper, remember her?

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:46 Yeah, no, I did-

Joe Rogan 13:46 That voice? Yo.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:47 I, I did a big-

Joe Rogan 13:48 Those are real people.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:48 ... deep dive on Wikipedia about them afterwards.

Joe Rogan 13:50 Here-

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:51 She stomped a kitten.

Joe Rogan 13:52 Which one's dancing here?

Narrator 13:53 This is Jesco with American Outlaw.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:55 Jesco is-

Joe Rogan 13:56 Oh, okay. He's the younger guy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:57 He's, uh ...

Narrator 13:59 Well, he was at the time.

James Donald Forbes McCann 13:59 Jesco lives out the legacy.

Joe Rogan 14:02 Excuse me?

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:03 He's, he's like, he keeps the dancing alive. He's the one who's a celebrity-

Joe Rogan 14:07 Oh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:07 ... in the show.

Joe Rogan 14:08 Right, right, right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:08 But then there was another documentary about him and in both documentaries, he complains about a woman making his eggs wrong. I remember that.

Joe Rogan 14:14 Yeah, that's that dude. Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:16 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:16 He's got it. He's a charismatic guy.

Joe Rogan 14:18 Yeah. He, he said he would cut her if she gave him runny eggs. I was like, "Uh."

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:22 Sloppy eggs.

Narrator 14:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:24 Settle down, bro. Like, maybe we shouldn't be celebrating this. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:27 But I think, I think one of them just got out of prison. I think the one who at the start of that documentary-

Joe Rogan 14:31 Thank God. I hope Trump got him out.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:33 Who- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:33 Who got out? What did he do? (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:35 The one who, uh, shot his uncle in the throat.

Joe Rogan 14:38 Oh, that kid.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:39 Remember that guy?

Joe Rogan 14:40 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:40 I think he just got ... That's the sexy one.

Narrator 14:42 Yes.

Joe Rogan 14:42 "I've always been the sexiest one in the family." Listen to what she sa- how, the way she says it though.

Narrator 14:46 I don't know if they're out of their voice, this is-

Joe Rogan 14:47 The voice is incredible.

Narrator 14:48 ... just pictures.

James Donald Forbes McCann 14:48 Yeah. I think that sexy one, I think she did get in trouble for stepping on a cat.

Joe Rogan 14:53 Well, there was a thing in that film that was interesting though, towards the end, where you see like, some of them are trying to like, move away from that life.

James Donald Forbes McCann 15:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:01 That girl, one girl got sober. So there was like a take to it where they realized like, "Hey, this is not sustainable. This is a crazy way to live. I'm a mother. Like, what am I doing?" You know? And she was trying to get out of it. Which I think a lot of people do come to the realization if you're in that kind of a community, "I gotta get the fuck away from these crazy assholes and stop doing meth."

James Donald Forbes McCann 15:20 It is ... Yeah, I think-

Joe Rogan 15:22 But it's how do you do it? See, this is the thing. This is the thing. When you say like, is it a, is it true that m- there's a higher percentage of murders that occur in Black communities? Right. Right. But as opposed to poor communities? Like, what about like, in deeply impoverished communities? Like, and then when you introduce a history of gang violence and crime and no one ever does anything to stop it, it's gonna stay the same.

James Donald Forbes McCann 15:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:48 Whether it's in Appalachia or whether it's i- ... Like, the Hatfields and the McCoys, all those motherfuckers that were killing each other back in the Wild West days. I mean, it was probably horrible back then. Why? Because they let it be that way. Nobody did anything about it. You couldn't stop them.

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:01 And I think some of the solutions for it are very bad. This is my, it's ... I don't wanna speak outta turn 'cause it's not my country, but like, when I've been driving through-

Joe Rogan 16:08 Please. People love to come to America and tell us what to do. I love it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:11 Well, I lo- I think it's the greatest country in the world. And I'll repeat that again.

Joe Rogan 16:13 Me too.

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:14 But when I drive through like a bad area and there's like a Planned Parenthood with a line around the block-

Joe Rogan 16:20 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:20 ... and things set on fire. And you can just t- like, I know that Planned Parenthood started out as a eugenicist organization where they went ... Like, that was the lady who founded it. That was her thing. And you can really see in those neighborhoods, it's like if you have a child here, you're gonna be tied to this community. We want you to get out. We want people who have the spirit to get outta here and to live a good full life in America, not to be tied down to being in like a really difficult crime-riddled area.

Joe Rogan 16:47 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:48 So abort your children so you can get out seems to be the ...

Joe Rogan 16:51 Hoo. (sigh)

James Donald Forbes McCann 16:52 I think they're still doing the eugenicist thing of being like, "Just be free." For different reasons, not 'cause they wanna dilute the numbers in the population or whatever. But because they go, "You've gotta be a free person who can leave and children will tie you to a place."

Joe Rogan 17:04 Yeah, that's a way to look at it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:05 That was ... When I was driving through, I forget what, Wisconsin? Northern Wisconsin? I don't know. I just hit with this s- ah, man, it's like usually the, the rough area of a town is lifted up by a freeway in America. Like you don't see ... If you drive into Chicago, you're just way up here on a freeway and then you come down into like the most beautiful buildings you've ever seen in your life and people go-

Joe Rogan 17:26 Mm-hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:26 "It's very scary over in the other part of Chicago." And you go, "I never saw it. I was-"

Joe Rogan 17:29 Above it in a, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:30 "I was 30 feet in the air."

Joe Rogan 17:32 Yeah, that's a good move.

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:32 But in some places I have driven through it and I've gone or I've stopped and you go, "This ... Someone's g-" Like, if I lived here ... I mean, there are some areas that are so rough (laughs) where it's like, man, if I lived here, I would go and steal and kill from the people who live 20 minutes up the road for sure. Do you know? Like, you just drive 20 minutes up the road and there's a German town and everything's perfect.

Joe Rogan 17:53 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:53 And everyone's rich and everyone's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 17:55 Yep.

James Donald Forbes McCann 17:55 And you ... This doesn't happen in ... I don't know. I'm from a very flat country by comparison.

Joe Rogan 18:01 Just imagine the idea-

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:01 The highs and lows here are incredible.

Joe Rogan 18:03 Oh, the highs and lows of what? You mean-

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:05 America.

Joe Rogan 18:05 You mean poverty and wealth?

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:08 Oh, okay.

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:08 Like, like the Bronx being-

Joe Rogan 18:10 Oh, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 18:10 ... an hour from the Hamptons.

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James Donald Forbes McCann 19:30 And you can-

Joe Rogan 19:31 Well, it's, all of it's real close. I used to say that, like when I lived in LA, I was like, "You know, people, th- they're like, 'This is a good neighborhood.'" I go, "Right, but you know people from a bad neighborhood can just come into your good neighborhood?" You know about all that, right?

James Donald Forbes McCann 19:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:44 When people are like, "Why do you have dogs? Why do you have guns?" I was like, "W- what? Like, do you watch the news?"

James Donald Forbes McCann 19:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:49 Are you fucking crazy? Like, you gotta be careful out there, and most of the time it's not going to happen to you. The 99.99% of people will never experience anything awful, but to not have any idea that it could ever happen to you is bad. I think the real problem, and this is the one that just doesn't get addressed with any politicians ever, is something massive has to be done to stop this, like, ancestor- like this lineage of people that are coming from these crime-ridden places and no- no one changes anything about it at all. We had a cop on once from Baltimore, and he was telling us that while he was on, on duty, he found this, uh, like crime sheet, a doc sheet of all the things that happened in like '76 or something like that, and he was reading all the areas and all the crimes and, and it, and it dawned on him. He's like, "Oh my God, like this is the same crimes in the same area decades later-"

James Donald Forbes McCann 20:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:50 "... and nothing has changed." They need to do something huge, like treat that as if it's an untapped resource of human potential because that's what it is. All those people in that community, if they had been born and raised with different families in a different place-

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:07 Oh, different outcome.

Joe Rogan 21:07 Completely different outcome. A giant percentage of who you are is dumb luck, and if the people that got the worst luck to be born in a crack house or be born in a place where there's gang violence on the street every day, and you go to school and you have to pick a gang. If you don't pick a gang, they'll fucking kill you. Like, what are you gonna do? Like, you're g- you're not gonna do anything but what everybody else is doing. That's what most people are gonna do. The few that are gonna break out, maybe they're musicians or an athlete or someone like that, they break out.

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:35 But for the most part, you're fucked. But what it is, is untapped and unrealized human potential that's going to waste on the most stupid fucking shit in the world.

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:46 I, but then when you try and do something like that in America, the pushback is huge. Like I think this is-

Joe Rogan 21:51 But why is, what is the pushback of investing into communities?

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:53 Well, I would say like in a small, like I think the National Guard going into some places.

Joe Rogan 21:57 Okay, that's different. So that's not an-

James Donald Forbes McCann 21:58 But that's what it, that's what it can look like sometimes.

Joe Rogan 22:00 That, that's what it can look like under this administration.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:02 Like there are definitely like Portland, Portland w- yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:03 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:03 There's gotta be a better way of doing it.

Joe Rogan 22:04 Well, that's, you're just gonna get too much pushback, but what you can't do is let it get to the point where it's feasible to call in the National Guard.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:13 That's what's crazy. It's like their law enforcement has been so handcuffed by th- the administrations, especially in Northwestern United States. Like everybody, they don't get enough sun. They lost their fucking mind. Everyone's depressed and everyone's trans. It's crazy up there. It's crazy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:29 I was just in Portland. I was in Portland just before the National Guard went in and I was in Portland like-

Joe Rogan 22:33 How insane.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:34 It's so much, you can walk around a little, little easier.

Joe Rogan 22:37 Oh, after the National Guard? Okay.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:38 I will say, like, I know people were very upset in Portland about that-

Joe Rogan 22:41 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:41 ... but I think just quietly they were going, "Well, it's kinda nice to be able to walk to the train station again."

Joe Rogan 22:46 How about the mayor? The mayor in DC thanked Trump.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:48 She's like, "Th- this is, like the safest it's ever been here since you brought in the National Guard." Look, but the problem is that sets a fucking precedent.

James Donald Forbes McCann 22:56 Oh.

Joe Rogan 22:56 So here's the thing, if it's necessary, let's say you have a place that's a literal, not even a real place, a fictional place in America where there's a literal gang war going on and dozens of people are getting shot every day and it's, it's basically a war zone. Let's just imagine a place like that. You would say, "Okay, it's probably a good idea to bring in the military and control that because the entire population is at risk. It's very dangerous. It's a literal war zone in the middle of a modern American city. We have to stop that." So, well the thing is, as you s- said there, people are lighting newspaper stands on fire. People are doing this. People are breaking into Starbucks. Let's bring in the military. People aren't obeying the speech laws. Let's bring in the military.

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:41 People are not using their digital ID. Let's bring in the military. It's like there's, there's gotta be a separation between our army and our civilians, and it has to be a big fucking reason to break that separation.

James Donald Forbes McCann 23:54 I think, I mean, you did it in the '60s in the South when like busing came in.

Joe Rogan 23:59 Don't say me. I wasn't even born.

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:00 Sorry, y'all, all-

Joe Rogan 24:02 Don't say me.

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:02 The, the United States, when, when the, when Jim Crow was happening in the South, the military got sent in.

Joe Rogan 24:08 Uh-huh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:08 And people, you, you desegregated the South by force.

Joe Rogan 24:11 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:11 So that was deemed to be like an appropriate use of-... a, like a monopoly on violence to enact the social change. Like, we, you're not gonna have segregated schools anymore. We're gonna have the military there and make sure that this works out.

Joe Rogan 24:24 Crazy you have to bring in that, the military, to get people, to allow Black people and white people to go to school together.

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:29 I mean-

Joe Rogan 24:30 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:30 Yeah, they didn't want it.

Joe Rogan 24:32 Well, you know-

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:32 It's just so weird when I go to the South now because everyone is so friendly and people do seem to get along.

Joe Rogan 24:37 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:37 And you go, "Your grandparents were, like, d-"

Joe Rogan 24:42 The brother had to rip the Band-Aid off.

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:43 "... doing the craziest stuff."

Joe Rogan 24:44 Th- well s-

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:45 Terrible. I mean, that Emmett Till, I just found out about that after I got here. It's unbelievable. And they were still shooting the Emmett Till statue that they put up. They had to, like, replace it with a bronze statue so the bullet holes wouldn't affect it.

Joe Rogan 24:58 Really? That's what was going on?

James Donald Forbes McCann 24:58 I believe that was what was happening until, like, quite recently.

Joe Rogan 25:00 You sure it wasn't just one KKK dude that ruined it for everybody else?

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:03 It may have been one dude.

Joe Rogan 25:04 You know what I'm saying? That's the problem. You get one wacky guy in the neighborhood and you're like, "That's a racist neighborhood. They were shooting the Emmett Till statue." Maybe if it's one asshole versus the tire shop.

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:13 It could be one dude. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:13 You know? One fucking dude just smelling his own farts and loading up his rifle. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:17 That one Arkansas MMA fighter who kept saying that he loved Hitler did a, did a lot, did a lot to hurt the reputation of that football team.

Joe Rogan 25:24 Yeah, Bryce Mitchell.

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:24 'Cause he always had the Razorbacks in the background.

Joe Rogan 25:27 Yeah. That was an o- I think he did not phrase that well.

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 25:32 I think he, I think, uh, I think there's a lot of people-

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:35 Here's the thing. There's a lot of people that become experts, and I'm guilty of this as well. By, uh, you're- you're talking about something where you maybe watched a YouTube video. (laughs) You know what I mean? Like, maybe you, uh, maybe you read an article about it-

James Donald Forbes McCann 25:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:51 ... in some fucking Politico ... Who knows? Who knows where you read it? Some, it could be some crazy right-wing source. You read something, you took it as fact, and then you talk to a bunch of other people that also take it as fact. And next thing you know, you start talking and you start-

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:06 You have the biggest show in the world?

Joe Rogan 26:07 ... saying shit. Yeah. That's me. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:09 Okay, but people always criticize that. People always have a go at the podcasters for, like, spouting off on things that they're not.

Joe Rogan 26:15 Yeah, but that is what I do.

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:16 They don't have a PhD in it. But how come there's no responsibility on the mainstream legacy media for having gotten really, really boring over the last-

Joe Rogan 26:23 Not just boring.

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:23 ... 15, 20 years?

Joe Rogan 26:24 Boring is, uh, that's a, no, no, compromise.

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:24 I would say lying as well. But people-

Joe Rogan 26:26 Completely compromised, totally untrustworthy, completely compromised.

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:30 I just got the New York Times app 'cause I thought, "I'll have a look at the..." I finally got enough money where I can pay a dollar a week to be on the New York Times app.

Joe Rogan 26:37 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:38 And it's so, um, I mean, it's ju- they've built Twitter. Like, the experience of it and the scrolling on it, it feels like you're in Twitter, but only mediated through-

Joe Rogan 26:48 Mm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:49 ... selected journalists from The New York Times. And suddenly, you're like, "I'm just stepping into, for a moment, whatever bubble that is." I just, I wanted to take a look at it.

Joe Rogan 26:58 Well, I-

James Donald Forbes McCann 26:59 It's ins-, it's like-

Joe Rogan 27:00 I think they're all gonna have to course correct. I think they're all gonna have to realize that it's-

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:05 They're trying.

Joe Rogan 27:05 ... not, it's not being intellectual, like a true intellectual, a true progressive, by only looking at things from one perspective. And to automatically assume that anybody that has a different perspective-

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:19 Oh.

Joe Rogan 27:19 Hey, we're back.

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:20 There we go.

Joe Rogan 27:21 Where was I?

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:21 You ta- So they need to have a course correction. We're talking about the mainstream media and that they've-

Joe Rogan 27:26 Well-

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:26 ... lost that, many people.

Joe Rogan 27:28 That's what I'm saying, was that you, you can't proclaim yourself to be intellectual by only listening to one perspective and to being, like, very aggressive and hostile about the other perspective. Immediate ad hominems, immediate, uh, attacks on, y- y- you know, l- lumping everyone in together, associating, like we were talking about earlier, associating a- ancient history with racism. Like, you're doing that, it's a little trick you're doing.

James Donald Forbes McCann 27:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:55 You're not having a real conversation. You're being a bitch. And this kind of communication sucks. It sucks for the left. It sucks for the right. When people on the right ... It sucks for ... It's a bad human communication, uh, skill. If you were good at it, you would want other people to have different opinions, and you'd want to hear those opinions and talk to those people.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:17 I think they're trying to course correct.

Joe Rogan 28:18 They have to.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:18 This is what's weird to watch, is they're, and it's who they're ... I don't wanna t- They, they love Schultz at The New York Times.

Joe Rogan 28:25 Well, he goes over there.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:25 They've picked him, yes. They've picked him out as their like-

Joe Rogan 28:27 But he goes in there and talks to them.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:27 ... "We can work with him."

Joe Rogan 28:28 Yeah. Well, he's very smart.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:30 Um, Starvy, they want him.

Joe Rogan 28:31 Sure. And another, he's, another guy who's very smart and very fun. You know, so like, they want these people because they've been kinda locked out of the fun.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:39 Yeah. Well, they also, they just pretended that it didn't exist for-

Joe Rogan 28:43 Do you see Schultz talk to them, though? When he talks to them?

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:46 I had a, uh, on the Roundtable?

Joe Rogan 28:47 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:47 Yeah, it was great.

Joe Rogan 28:48 It's hilarious because he, they're talking in these bullshit terms.

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:52 And he's like, "Hold on. You know, let's just talk real here."

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:56 Where he goes, "The Jews."

Joe Rogan 28:58 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 28:59 And everybody laughs 'cause he can ...

Joe Rogan 29:01 'Cause he's a comedian.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:02 He's a, he's allowed to be funny.

Joe Rogan 29:03 Yeah. And there was a, there was another one that he did with another guy, I forget from what other mainstream media publication. It was the same sort of situation. And to have it that way, where it's a one-on-one conversation, then you get to see, like, the weird way that they actually think and communicate. The bubble. Like Tim, when Tim Dillon was on CNN.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:22 The CNN one.

Joe Rogan 29:22 Yes.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:22 I was gonna say, it's why I moved my ring up.

Joe Rogan 29:23 Amazing.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:24 'Cause she kept asking the s- She didn't want it ... They resisted releasing that as a long-form thing.

Joe Rogan 29:29 Yes, yes.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:30 And you can see why, 'cause she's asking the same question three or four times in a row-

Joe Rogan 29:33 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:33 ... to try and bait something, which is not how a conversation works, where you go, "Really?"

Joe Rogan 29:36 "We pressured them into putting the whole thing out."

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:38 She keeps going, "Really? Come on."

Joe Rogan 29:40 Yeah. Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:40 "Real-" Just to get him, 'cause he's a fun guy, and he wants to say something funny. And she's like baiting him to say something-

Joe Rogan 29:46 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 29:46 ... exaggerated.

Joe Rogan 29:47 Yeah. Jon Stewart had the best, uh, response to this whole thing. He was talking to some guy from The New Yorker, and they were talking about this podcast, and he's like, "You know," they were talking about different opinions and people, different people that I've talked to. And he's like, "But Joe Rogan has the biggest audience in the world. He has a, a bigger audience." He's like, "Well, go get a big audience."

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:09 "Go get it."

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:10 It's not like they don't have the finances.

Joe Rogan 30:11 Yeah. "You just go, go figure it out, do it right, and you'll get a big audience. Like, it's not that fucking complicated. I don't have pyrotechnics."

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:19 "There's no CGI. There's not even a crew."... I mean, there's a skeleton crew of people who do this.

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:25 But I think, I think some of it is the... It's this, like, ivory tower mentality of if, if it becomes-

Joe Rogan 30:32 S-

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:32 ... like, that they think. There is a, there is a sense in people who have got, like, a very big education and have gone through the whatever system you have to jump through to get to an elite-

Joe Rogan 30:42 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:42 ... legacy thing-

Joe Rogan 30:42 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:43 ... is that most people are too stupid to, to have, like, an open and honest conversation with.

Joe Rogan 30:49 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:49 And that if stupid people like you, then that's a problem. Th- That's how they're viewing the world, in that there's like-

Joe Rogan 30:54 Well, there's al-

James Donald Forbes McCann 30:55 ... that there are-

Joe Rogan 30:55 They're also viewing the world in that they're protecting people from opinions they don't agree with. Even though they listen to those opinions, it has no effect on their position.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:04 They keep the same position.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:05 Yes.

Joe Rogan 31:05 But they're worried that people dumber than them... It's a very condescending thought process.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:10 To think that you're the only open-minded person.

Joe Rogan 31:12 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:12 And not only that, and people that are dumber l- is, uh, which is most people, you're- you're going to fall into the trap of what this person's saying that I don't agree with.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:20 And this... Yes.

Joe Rogan 31:21 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:21 And that if you, and that the only way to get people to listen to you is to, like, spin lies, but, like-

Joe Rogan 31:25 Uh-huh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:25 ... you can't just be honest.

Joe Rogan 31:26 Exactly.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:27 Which is what I think the podcasting thing is. It's what it is. It's a long f- it's... You can't really put on a facade for three hours talking to somebody.

Joe Rogan 31:34 Maybe you can. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:37 I... (laughs) I think that might be who he is at this point.

Joe Rogan 31:38 Yeah. He is definitely that. Well, that's why I wanted to do a podcast with him, so you can see three hour- f- by the way, no questions beforehand, no prep, t- didn't pee, sat there for three hours.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:48 He's almost 80. Like, if he was wearing a diaper, respect.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:52 But the guy just fucking hung out for three hours. Does that mean I agree with everything he does? Fuck no. Of course not. It's ridiculous.

James Donald Forbes McCann 31:59 But he was able to be himself for three- he was able-

Joe Rogan 32:01 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:01 ... to talk for three hours. Whereas Kamala wouldn't do it.

Joe Rogan 32:04 Well... (sighs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:04 She wouldn't do it.

Joe Rogan 32:05 She could've. She could've done it. I'm telling you, man. It would've been fine.

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:08 I watched her for six minutes on Stephen Colbert, and I don't think she could do it.

Joe Rogan 32:11 It's different. It's different. He's kind of being f- like, an interviewer, right?

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:16 He's in this weird position where he's at a desk. The desk is beside you for some reason, 'cause that's how they always used to do it, so these fucking-

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:23 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 32:23 ... uncreative people just do it the exact same way always. It doesn't make any sense. Why does he have a desk? Is he writing? What does he have-

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:29 ... does he have pens in the drawer? Like, what are we doing here? Like, why am I on a couch-

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:33 The microphone has to sit on something.

Joe Rogan 32:34 ... over here? Why am I sitting down, like, to the right of you? It's weird. It's always in the same position. Host is always to the right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:40 They're always to the left of the screen. It's goofy, right? So, he's doing this thing that you only do on television in front of an audience, by the way. You should never have a conversation in front of an audience, because as soon as you do, the people are aware of the audience.

James Donald Forbes McCann 32:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:52 You're aware of how people think and feel, and you're playing to them, and some people say things to try to get a rise out of you in front of the audience. Like, uh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:01 If you wanna do that, it's a different thing. But if you're gonna have, like, a really important conversation with someone, you don't wanna do it in a fucking audience. So, Stephen, the way he's doing it is handicapped from the jump. Also, you only have seven minutes before you have to cut for commercial or whatever it is. You can't do that. You... It'd take me f- seven minutes to ask what she likes to cook.

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:21 I wanna know what she, who she, I don't know. I wanna know, does, is there anything that she regrets doing? Is, uh, has she ever l- what does she learn from this time? Did... Is it more complicated being a vice president than you thought it was gonna be? Like, what is the web of trying to fix things and change things versus the people that are influencing you to make decisions? 'Cause we're not pretending that people don't spend a lot of money to influence your decisions, so how much of an effect does it have?

James Donald Forbes McCann 33:46 What do you actually believe when they come to you asking for those favors?

Joe Rogan 33:49 Right. What would it, what would be bet- could we take money out of politics? Would you be willing? Would, what, what, what would we do if we completely eliminated corporate funding of any politicians? How would that change everything? Those are the kinda questions we could've, like, we could've talked for hours about that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:03 But they don't wa- she doesn't want to do that.

Joe Rogan 34:05 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:05 And the people around her... This is what I me- there's like, there's something that has... The right used to have this as well. And both sides of politics had it. And I remember there was like... Howard Dean, I think it was, did a weird scream one time.

Joe Rogan 34:16 Yeah, one scream. Ah!

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:17 And the whole thing fell apart.

Joe Rogan 34:18 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:18 And that really stayed with me. That I remember watching politics, and there was some sense of like, everything is very manufactured, and if you make a single mistake, oh my God.

Joe Rogan 34:27 Mm-hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:27 You're gonna lose the primary. It's all over.

Joe Rogan 34:28 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:29 And Trump destroyed that with the Republicans, where it all became very, we've just got to, like, hang out and talk, and-

Joe Rogan 34:35 Mm-hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:35 ... everyone got very loosey-goosey on the right.

Joe Rogan 34:37 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:37 And the Democrats have not adjusted to that and had their... Like, Bernie could do it. They just froze Bernie out, and they did everything they could to stop him coming through.

Joe Rogan 34:45 Right, like Marjorie Taylor Greene. You could not have a person like that before Trump. That would... There's no way. There's no way.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:54 I mean, you can't have her. We've... She's gone, right?

Joe Rogan 34:56 (laughs) She's gone now.

James Donald Forbes McCann 34:57 She's gone.

Joe Rogan 34:58 But she wouldn't have existed without him. Like that sort of-

James Donald Forbes McCann 35:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:01 ... brash, crazy personality, that had not existed in a congressperson.

James Donald Forbes McCann 35:05 And there will be someone on the left who can do that at some point.

Joe Rogan 35:08 Jasmine Crockett. She's doing that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 35:10 Man, maybe.

Joe Rogan 35:11 She gets aggressive-

James Donald Forbes McCann 35:12 She does.

Joe Rogan 35:13 ... and loud, and they get crazy with each other.

James Donald Forbes McCann 35:14 I like-

Joe Rogan 35:15 Listen, it's a reality show now.

James Donald Forbes McCann 35:17 I like her. I know people don't like her. I think she's hip. She would maybe come on the show.

Joe Rogan 35:20 Mm-hmm. Okay.

James Donald Forbes McCann 35:21 Have you invited her to come on the show?

Joe Rogan 35:23 It's a r- No.

James Donald Forbes McCann 35:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 35:25 I... Listen, I think-

James Donald Forbes McCann 35:26 Y'all too scared to have me on the show.

Joe Rogan 35:28 I think, uh, a lot of them-

James Donald Forbes McCann 35:29 She'd come out with rhymes about you?

Joe Rogan 35:30 ... are probably very nice people. Very nice people. They're... And this is not a p- uh, uh, an attack on any individuals. I think that system turns you into a sociopath. That's what I think. And I think there's very few people, Tulsi Gabbard, my friend, being one of them. I love her. She's amazing. She's a real person. Like, that lady is the same person on air, off air, meeting people, hanging out with her husband. I've hung out with her hours and hours and hours. That's who she is. She's cool as fuck. And she was a congressperson, but she has horror stories.

James Donald Forbes McCann 36:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:05 When she tells you, like, what it's like on the inside, and what she d- when you find out how these people are making hundreds of millions of dollars on $170,000 a year salary and no one's batting an eye, that is kind of kooky. That's ki- it's kind of kooky, 'cause even ones you wouldn't suspect, like, wait a minute-... they're worth how much? Now, you don't really know how much they're worth, right? You, you're, you'd have to, you'd have to get an audit, right? 'Cause what you're hearing is a reporting of what they're worth, and it could be total propaganda. It could be half of what it is. But even if it's millions, even if it's a couple million, if you have, if you've been a congressperson for two years and now all of a sudden you're worth three million dollars and you were in debt before you became a congressperson, that's suspicious. And if you look at the fucking, the people that invest money, that's where it gets really crazy, because it is not a blue thing and it's not a red thing. It's both. Everybody is making money on the stock market. There's a shitload of-

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:07 ... these people that are buying a bunch of stock and then conveniently a short time later, a bill gets passed that they were working on that makes it very profitable for that country. Stock shoots through the roof. They make a giant windfall.

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:22 Yeah. I'm trying to remember who said it. There was some line that someone said about, like, you can, you can sort of believe what you want in American politics and you'll get rich for it. Like, no matter what you actually believe, there's a group out there who are gonna get you rich for having a belief in it.

Joe Rogan 37:37 Hmm. Sort of.

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:37 Like, if it's the environmental people, if it't the fossil fuel people.

Joe Rogan 37:40 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:41 I mean, there would be varying scales of it. But also, you can fix this. Like, there are ways to, I think there's-

Joe Rogan 37:46 To fix the money in politics?

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:47 I've been reading a lot about Lee Kuan Yew.

Joe Rogan 37:49 Who's that?

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:50 He was the, sort of the dictator of Singapore. They might not like that. Um, 'cause he won (laughs) .

Joe Rogan 37:56 (laughs) Don't go there.

James Donald Forbes McCann 37:56 He won, he won elections, but Singapore is, like, a single-party state.

Joe Rogan 38:00 Oh, so it's like when Putin wins.

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:03 I don't wanna get in trouble with the people of Singapore.

Joe Rogan 38:05 Listen, just-

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:06 But it is notable that one party wins every single time, and they don't primary, and they win almost all the seats.

Joe Rogan 38:12 Hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:12 And they are really popular.

Joe Rogan 38:13 Okay.

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:13 But he brought in, like, canings, and he got drugs out of the country, and he started paying the politicians a lot. Like, if you're a politician in Singapore, you get a huge salary, but you are not to ever be corrupt. Like, you're meant to have enough money that they can't really buy you.

Joe Rogan 38:28 Hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:29 And that might be the only way, 'cause if you have b-... You know, what are you, what are they earning? $170,000-something a year-

Joe Rogan 38:36 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:36 ... to be a congressperson. If they are making three million dollars a year and the punishment for taking money from anybody else or from getting a sto-... You know, maybe you can't own stocks, but we give you three million dollars a year.

Joe Rogan 38:46 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:47 Then at least you can't be swayed. Like, you're taking a lot of tax money to do the job, but at least there's some insulation on someone being able to go, "I want you to vote this way."

Joe Rogan 38:57 I think if you have a totalitarian dictatorship-

James Donald Forbes McCann 38:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:59 ... you could probably pull that off because if the politician's bad, you can shoot them.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:03 Yes.

Joe Rogan 39:03 The problem in America, if you have three million dollars and you know a guy who's got $50 million, you feel poor because we're retarded. All right? Bryan Callen has a friend who's worth, I think he's worth $8 billion, and, uh, he, uh, feels broke 'cause his friend is worth 30.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:20 I don't-

Joe Rogan 39:21 No, no, no, for real.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:22 There's people that get that goofy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:24 I've met, I've seen it a couple times.

Joe Rogan 39:26 So, if you're in the business of trying to make money, which is what most politicians are. It's like they decided not to go into sales. They go into politics. They're trying to make as much money as they can while they're there.

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:35 Right? That's what most people are doing with most jobs. If you're doing that and you're, you're just kind of a, a, a person who's drawn to that kind of a job, you're not gonna be happy with your salary. If you find out that there's some NGO that you can invest in and you can start a nonprofit and then it becomes a profit and you can funnel mo- m- m- money overseas-

James Donald Forbes McCann 39:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:57 ... and then corporations that you buy into also can use the, you know, the laws that you're passing, you're gonna do it anyway. They're gonna do it anyway.

James Donald Forbes McCann 40:07 This is why Plato says there's no way to touch money.

Joe Rogan 40:09 They're gonna say, "I cannot, I cannot be corrupted." You'd have to kill them. If you, if you catch them corrupt, you gotta shoot them in, in front of everybody. You got to say, "This is what happens when you steal from America." Boom. I'm not saying you should do that, but I'm saying that's the only way you're gonna stop it. It would have to be a totalitarian dictatorship. But then it brings us back to the thing about using the military in the cities. When do you draw the line?

James Donald Forbes McCann 40:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:30 When do you draw the line? Like, when, like, okay, what's hate speech, right? So, hate speech can mean a bunch of different things to different people. So, as soon as you say, "We can't permit hate speech," okay, well then you can't per- can't permit freedom of speech because you're just defining hate by whatever. That's the same line when you bring the military into those cities. It's the same line. It's like you're doing something you shouldn't be able to do and you're justifying doing it, saying, "Because this is a special case." The problem is, what if that gets solved? You're gonna move further to the m- even more ridi- you've, you've already got me to a- allow you to arrest m- you can arrest me for tweeting things. Okay? I've already said yes to that. So, what else is next? Like, where, w- you're gonna s- you're gonna keep going. If you make money, you wanna, gonna w- wanna make more money. If you pass laws, you're gonna wanna pass more laws.

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:20 That's how you get numbers on the board. That's how you win this fucking game. You can't let them ever score.

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:25 Then you have to de-game the system.

Joe Rogan 41:28 Well, you have-

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:28 Long term, if you're gonna have a democracy, you have to have-

Joe Rogan 41:30 Yeah. You gotta de-game the system. But the problem is, there's so much profit in it and they get to vote on whether or not they can still do this insider trading thing, right? Which is bananas. Like, who thinks we should still steal? Oh, can we have an anonymous vote?

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:48 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:49 You don't have this problem with an aristocracy. That's all I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 41:52 Well-

James Donald Forbes McCann 41:52 If you finally go back to the powdered wigs and silk stockings-

Joe Rogan 41:54 There is a real, there's a terrible argument for that, because you're just hoping that the person is a benevolent dictator. That's the best-case scenario. You get a benevolent king. But how, how many of those have ever existed? That's why it's such a rare-

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:08 We've had so many beautiful, benevolent kings.

Joe Rogan 42:10 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:10 We've got a benevolent king right now in my country.

Joe Rogan 42:14 Uh, it's, um, it's strange, right? It's like there's no right way to run people because no one really should be one... There, it should, there's never a time where it makes sense where one person is the head dude of 350 million people. That is nuts.

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:32 That is completely nuts.

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:34 Yeah.... but you also, I mean, as a country, you have a great tolerance, I think, compared to other, like, Western democracies, for letting there be some chaos.

Joe Rogan 42:43 Yeah, 'cause we're h- we have guns. That's part of it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:46 I think-

Joe Rogan 42:46 This is a heavily armed country.

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:48 ... you're like, tolerating chaos allows you to have the guns, though.

Joe Rogan 42:50 That's true.

James Donald Forbes McCann 42:50 Like, if you didn't have the virtue of going, "Some people are gonna get shot and we're gonna be okay with that."

Joe Rogan 42:55 Well, it's not just that. It's like... (sighs) You know, it was written into the Constitution because we were rebelling, right? We were, we were rebelling from a dictatorship. We had escaped. And when we had declared that this was a country, w- we were like, "We gotta stay strapped, because these motherfuckers might come back." And we all agreed to that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:14 And then it got to a point where people go, "Okay, but they were talking about muskets." Now people have AR-15s, now people have, you know, tr- switches they can put on Glocks and it can fire automatic, like-

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:25 Is a tactical nuclear weapon defended under the Second Amendment?

Joe Rogan 43:29 You wanna hear the scariest thing that I heard? This- this was the guy that was talking about, uh, the UAP program and the back engineering of U- u- flying saucers.

James Donald Forbes McCann 43:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:38 They, what did they call it? A simultaneous or a spontaneous... What was the word that he used for it?

Narrator 43:43 Instantaneous.

Joe Rogan 43:44 Instantaneous. That these UFOs that they believe use some sort of a gravity, some sort of a propulsion system that's unknown to modern science, standard conventional science. And they can transport, literally transport, like, going from place to place in space instantaneously. And so what do the United States government try to do? They try to use it as a method of delivering a nuclear bomb. So, an instantaneous nuclear payload delivery system. That's what they were calling flying saucers. They, the first thing they thought about doing with them-

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:19 Put a nuke somewhere.

Joe Rogan 44:20 ... was instantaneously deliver a nuke so no one could retaliate and they didn't even see it coming. You would just have a flying saucer with a nuke appear at the Kremlin.

Narrator 44:32 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:33 N- w- what's weird though, you guys had that capability for years.

Joe Rogan 44:37 Allegedly.

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:38 No, I mean, I mean-

Joe Rogan 44:39 You mean the bomb?

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:39 ... when n- I mean, when no one else had the nuclear bomb and when we didn't have good anti-air programs.

Joe Rogan 44:44 Mm-hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:44 And just America alone had nuclear weapons.

Joe Rogan 44:47 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:48 You could've at that point... You could've said-

Joe Rogan 44:50 Wham ham.

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:50 ... "We're in charge of the world now or everyone's dead."

Joe Rogan 44:52 Well, there was a bunch of people that did. I mean, that's what Dr. Strangelove's all about, right?

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:55 You made movies about it and you talked about it, but-

Joe Rogan 44:57 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 44:57 ... you didn't do it when the Suez Crisis kicked off. I think Eisenhower was like, "Can we get a nuke in there?" And people said, "No, Mr. President."

Joe Rogan 45:03 Bro, bro, they came real close to nuking things three or four times.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:06 But what a beautiful thing that you, you held back.

Joe Rogan 45:09 Yes. Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:10 No one else would've. I talk about this, I think about this a lot. That like, r- if anyone else had discovered the nuclear weapon, that's it, you'd have global hegemony by one power forever.

Joe Rogan 45:19 Well, I think that is one thing about America that most people will agree to, is that we like to think of ourselves as being the best country in America, and that comes with responsibility.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:32 Being the greatest superpower comes with responsibility. That's why people get real uncomfortable about, like, drone bombing statistics and shit like that. They get real uncomfortable 'cause it makes you really, really question, like, w- what we do.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:44 When you (stutters) , you know, when you tell people, "Did you know that more than 80% of the people that die in drone bombings are civilians? Accidental kills?"

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:52 Well, also, every time someone tries to be nice about Obama, then they have to go, "Well, the drone bombings, he did-"

Joe Rogan 45:57 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 45:57 "... drone bomb a lot of innocent people."

Joe Rogan 45:58 I know. They always have to do that. You know, listen, I think we found out through Obama most likely what you find out through anybody that gets through there that's not Trump, is that they immediately co-opt you into the system. You had no idea how the system worked until you got in there. You were a senator for two years, and then all of a sudden you're president. You had some amazing ideas and you're a great spokesperson, and probably the best statesman we've ever had. Like, the best representative of the best about America. A guy who is from a single mom, you know, grew up poor, didn't, you know, didn't have a silver spoon in his mouth.

James Donald Forbes McCann 46:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:30 Forget about all the narratives of hi- him being nar- uh, uh, related somehow to the Bushes. There's a lot of that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 46:35 I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 46:36 Oh, there's like a whole conspiracy theory. But point is that what you got is a guy who was promoting hope and change, right? And that's what we were all really hoping was gonna happen. But not, it was really kind of like another Bush term in terms of like foreign policy, in terms of a lot of things. In terms of like the way America felt about America though, it was good. It was like, hey, racism has obviously like stopped being an issue to get you to be the President of the United States because a, a Black man just won. And it's not saying that racism doesn't exist, but we're doing better than we used to do. This was not possible when Martin Luther King Jr. Was making his I Have a Dream Speech, but it is possible now. So, we have progressed. And he's brilliant. So it's per- and he's, and he's, like, well measured and calm and peaceful, and he never calls reporters piggy. He never (laughs) he never makes mean tweets when his enemies die. You know, like, so as a representative of America-

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:31 I'm not even gonna, I'm not even... I mean, I, it's gotten to the point where the Rob Reiner tweet just went over- it just like...

Joe Rogan 47:35 It killed it for a lot of people. Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:37 Is that it? But like, no, I mean, I saw it and I was like, "Oh yeah, of course, he's mocking a dead man."

Joe Rogan 47:42 Oh, well, that guy-

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:43 That's why he's-

Joe Rogan 47:43 ... tried to jail him for, you know, year... And this is not forgiving him for that. This is not excusing him.

James Donald Forbes McCann 47:48 Rob Reiner tried to jail?

Joe Rogan 47:49 Oh my God, there's a video of him working with intelligence, uh, agents. He was working with James Clapper and, um, who's the other guy? Clapper and... Why, h- how come I can't remember that?

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:04 I just, I, I still think it's a good policy that once a guy dies-

Joe Rogan 48:07 But there's like a well-produced... Oh, 100%. I am 100%-

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:09 Just, it was with McCain as well.

Joe Rogan 48:10 Yes.

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:10 I remember that they hated each other.

Joe Rogan 48:13 I know. 100%. It's gross. It's a gross thing to mock a man after he's dead. It's just pointless. And it's, but the p- the real problem is, it's a bad look for America in general. Right? It's a, it's a mark of cruelty that ultimately could lead people to think differently about America and perhaps motivate attacks. That's a real thing. Like, a kooky person-... you can sway them either way by the vibe the country's giving off.

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:39 When the president is giving off a vibe that, you know, his enemy, at least mocking the fact that his, you know, his enemy was, uh, obsessed with him-

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:47 I will say, I've had friends-

Joe Rogan 48:47 ... and, and that's what's led to his son going crazy and killing him.

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:50 I've had friends come over and visit me and almost all of them have been scared to come. Like people who haven't been to America before.

Joe Rogan 48:56 They're scared to come to America?

James Donald Forbes McCann 48:57 People are very scared to come to America.

Joe Rogan 48:58 Good. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:01 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:01 Well, this is like not Hondurans-

Joe Rogan 49:02 What are they scared of?

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:02 ... this is just strange, so like there, there's gun violence. It looks, if you just, if all you're seeing is the-

Joe Rogan 49:07 Oh, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:07 ... the news, you go, "Well, civil war's right around the corner."

Joe Rogan 49:11 Well, that's what they want us to see.

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:12 And then you're here, and it's like-

Joe Rogan 49:13 That's what they want us to see.

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:13 People are way more interested in college football than killing each other in the street.

Joe Rogan 49:16 Especially in Texas.

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:17 They're, they're, what they're way, most people are way more interested in living their lives. The problem is when your life becomes that. The problem is when your life becomes a cause, when your life, whether it's a religious cause, you know, a jihadist cause, a right-wing cause, a left-wing cause, your life becomes a fucking cause. You know, "We have to stop oil now," and you're gluing your fucking hand to a painting. You know, there's a lot of nutty stupid shit that goes on with just being a human being.

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:44 I do-

Joe Rogan 49:44 And it's all accelerated by social media.

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:46 Yeah, but I find it heartening that people give a shit here.

Joe Rogan 49:49 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:49 That people know on some level, maybe they don't have like a good grasp of what's actually happening in the world.

Joe Rogan 49:54 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 49:55 But there's a sense in America that people kinda know who their politicians are, they're across what the issues that they're being asked to vote on are. And this, like in Australia, the extent to which people have no idea what is going on and are so checked out and don't know any of it and are not like actively participating in democracy, you guys really care. Like people primary and they scrutinize people and they, there's some belief that you can still get involved in politics here. I really, it's like the most heartening thing about it, is that-

Joe Rogan 50:24 That's awesome.

James Donald Forbes McCann 50:24 And that's the, the downside is if everybody cares, then you do get, you get people going off the deep end.

Joe Rogan 50:29 Well, you just gotta keep it a fair game. And as long as you keep it a fair game, if you don't do a good job and that person gets into power, you fucked up. So now your team has to regroup and rebuild and come back again in four years.

James Donald Forbes McCann 50:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:43 And that's what it's supposed to be. But when you start trying to do things like moving all the illegals to specific states so that you get more congressional seats because of the census, and then you start giving them Social Security numbers and Medicaid and Medicare and you start rigging the system because you wanna like bring in more voters and you're spending... And this is what they did.

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:03 This is undeniable at this point. This-

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:05 Fetterman was, copped to it, and he was like, "Yeah, that's how you do it. I saw him on the-"

Joe Rogan 51:08 Unden- it's undeniable what they did. And I get it, like you're playing a dirty game, they're playing a dirty game. And this is not a right or left thing. I remember that Hacking Democracy, um, documentary that was on HBO back in the day. It was during the Bush administration, and this Hacking Democracy, they had tested these voting machines and f- and this is a long time ago, right? So this is like, what was it like, 2004, Jamie? What was that?

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:34 Uh...

Joe Rogan 51:34 Somewhere around then. So this, this was a much less sophisticated system that I'm sure that they're using today, but there was a third-party input. For some reason it had been set up so a third party can input data into the machine and change the votes. And they did it on TV. They did it on TV, they showed that they could do it easily, and they affected the votes.

James Donald Forbes McCann 51:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:58 So they showed back then, they were essentially saying that the Bush administration had rigged the vote, and that's how they got Bush into office. And this company that made these machines was a big contributor to the Republican Party. So this shit has been going on on both sides, man.

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:10 But that was true, I mean, in 2000 that was true.

Joe Rogan 52:13 So here, but here, here it is.

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:14 Uh, everybody thinks the JFK election.

Joe Rogan 52:15 The film investigates... Oh, for sure the JFK election. The flawed integrity of the electronic voting mach- voting machines, as particularly those made by Diebold Election Systems exposing previously unknown backdoors in the Diebold trade secret computer software. The film culminates dramatically in the on-camera hacking of the in-use working Diebold Election System in Leon County, Florida, the same computer voting system which has been used in actual American elections across 33 states, and which still counts tens of millions of American votes today. Whoa, today? Is that real? I mean- The same fucking machines? When it was written. When it was written, I don't know. When did it, when did this article come out? This is, uh, Wikipedia. I don't know.

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:54 It's usually up there.

Joe Rogan 52:55 Bro, that's crazy if they're still using the same machines. That's cra-

James Donald Forbes McCann 52:58 But like...

Joe Rogan 52:59 But that was a thing during Georgia, right? They were supposed to upgrade their machines, but they decided to wait until after the election to do it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:05 Why is there no pressure to make the elections feel more real?

Joe Rogan 53:08 I think because they're both rigging it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:11 Right, but if they're both rigging it-

Joe Rogan 53:12 This is what I think. I don't think-

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:13 Then if neither of them was rigging it-

Joe Rogan 53:14 I think it's, they just wanna win, man, and then call everybody conspiracy theorists. Both sides, by the way. This is not one side or the other. I think both sides are trying to do whatever the fuck they can.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:23 I don't think both sides rigging it is the same-

Joe Rogan 53:25 Okay, it's not been used in business in the US since 2009. Well, this is about the Bush administration, the Diebold things.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:31 And what you're hearing about mail-in ballots, that's about the left.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:35 It's like you're, you're getting the same thing on both sides. One of the things that Rep. Luna said when she was on the podcast I thought was fascinating. She's like, "There's certain problems that they don't wanna fix 'cause they can campaign finance against it." They can like get people to donate money against it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:49 Right. Okay.

Joe Rogan 53:49 You know, they could run on that platform, "We're gonna fix this."

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:53 Like they don't wanna fix it, because that's how they get money.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:55 Right, like if you're an, you're a homelessness curing-

Joe Rogan 53:57 Whatever it is, yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 53:58 ... organization, you actually need the homeless so you can keep existing.

Joe Rogan 54:01 Not only that, it's even worse. They're incentivized to have more homeless.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:04 They get paid per homeless.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:08 It-

Joe Rogan 54:08 So if they have more homeless people, they could say, "Hey, we need a bigger budget. We have more homeless people." (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:12 I remember we, when we had the unemployed in Austral- it was like we had these companies that would, it was their job to get you a job and the government would pay them money. But you got more money for finding someone a job if they'd been unemployed for a longer period of time. So it's like, don't try too hard to find them a job for the first two years.

Joe Rogan 54:27 Uh...

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:27 All right? Two years in, then get them a job.

Joe Rogan 54:29 Yeah, you're growing some plants.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:30 'Cause then you-

Joe Rogan 54:31 You don't wanna pick it so early.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:32 Yeah, it's not... I don't think the answer is just a ben- b- h- a good king who solves everybody's problems.

Joe Rogan 54:39 A good king. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:39 But I really do-

Joe Rogan 54:40 You'd be a good king. Why don't you become-

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:42 No, I'd be a terrible king.

Joe Rogan 54:42 Go over to Australia and be king of Australia.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:45 We've got enough problems.

Joe Rogan 54:46 You could fix it.

Narrator 54:47 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:47 Uh...

Joe Rogan 54:48 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:49 I've talked about getting our own king many... I did a show about it once. I really, I think an aboriginal king would be-

Joe Rogan 54:54 Well, everybody thinks-

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:55 ... bring the country together.

Joe Rogan 54:56 Yeah, for sure. That'll work.

James Donald Forbes McCann 54:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:58 Everybody wants, like, the perfect system and it's not going to ever exist and I don't think it ever will because I think there's always going to be, no matter what happens, no matter who's in charge and no matter who's doing this, there's always gonna be people that oppose. No matter what.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:13 Yep. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:13 Like naturally oppose, even if illogically. There's n- it's never gonna be perfect. But you gotta make it the most fair. It's gotta be fair and as soon as you catch someone rigging the system, you gotta like... That has to be, uh, alarm bells that go off for everybody on every side. It shouldn't... If you find out that there was mail-in ballots that were illegal and they were fake and they were brought in so that the Republicans can win some sort of a primary. If you found out that was true and you were a Republican, you're supposed to be upset.

James Donald Forbes McCann 55:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:43 Like this is, y- your... Someone is cheating this incredible system that we have and you, you're not gonna have the will of the people. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact: research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild? And also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, ones that are all about investing in the long-term health of your dog, like Farmer's Dog. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs. The recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four-legged best friends something that every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So, try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is only for new customers.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:09 You gotta make it seem fair enough so that there's not a violent uprising.

Joe Rogan 57:13 It's gotta be-

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:13 Like, just for having a future to the country.

Joe Rogan 57:15 ... real.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:15 'Cause that was the-

Joe Rogan 57:15 It's gotta be the will of the people. It's gotta be-

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:17 ... January 7th thing.

Joe Rogan 57:18 Yeah, no.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:19 Those people go... No, but that was, that was those people-

Joe Rogan 57:21 Sort of.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:21 There was a lot... There were some people there who were definitely feds trying to (laughs) bring them in the building.

Joe Rogan 57:25 Dude, I, I wonder how many were feds before that.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:28 Here's the question. There's a bunch of people that were feds at the scene. They finally had to admit that. We were talking about that-

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:35 "We're going to the Capitol."

Joe Rogan 57:36 Yeah. (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:37 That man's cr- have you seen that-

Joe Rogan 57:38 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 57:38 ... guy? It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 57:38 It's crazy. There's a bunch of people that called people to go into the Capitol to break in, and a bunch of them probably were feds. But how many feds were on these chat groups? How many feds were on message boards? How many feds were instigating people to do things and talking about things that aren't true or saying things that they're pl- how many, how many feds were trying to get the kookiest of the kooky riled up? Because-

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:06 Yeah, but then also, like why-

Joe Rogan 58:08 It's not zero.

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:08 ... why is the blame not on... Why do the Democrats not go, "We've contributed to making a system that even if this is a totally legitimate, like group of people who really believe what they're doing by storming the Capitol-"

Joe Rogan 58:18 Mm-hmm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:18 "... we've contributed to building a system that looks really fake-

Joe Rogan 58:21 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:21 "... to a lot of people."

Joe Rogan 58:22 Yeah.

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:23 Where we could take really easy steps to make it look less fake."

Joe Rogan 58:26 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:26 Like, you could have... I don't understand why voter ID isn't everywhere and they go, "Well, not everyone has an ID."

Joe Rogan 58:32 Well, it's racist.

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:33 Give 'em one.

Joe Rogan 58:34 It's racist. What you're saying is racist.

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:36 How hard could it be-

Joe Rogan 58:37 Hey-

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:38 ... to go-

Joe Rogan 58:38 ... check your white privilege. You are a straight, white male. Why don't you just shut the fuck up and sit this one out?

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:43 All the other races can have a photograph taken of themselves just as easily-

Joe Rogan 58:47 Meanwhile-

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:48 ... on a little laminated card.

Joe Rogan 58:49 ... all those other races just a few years ago needed proof of vaccination. So this is-

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:53 ... kooky. It's completely kooky.

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:54 It would be... I... But then-

Joe Rogan 58:56 It's legal-

James Donald Forbes McCann 58:56 ... nothing is being done now to actually bring it in.

Joe Rogan 58:58 It's illegal to show your ID in California.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:00 What? Where? Where?

Joe Rogan 59:02 California.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:02 In the whole state of California?

Joe Rogan 59:03 You cannot show your ID when you vote.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:06 Even if you want to? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:07 You can't show it to vote.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:08 You can't wear it on a lanyard (laughs) around your neck?

Joe Rogan 59:10 Nope. Nope. They'll fire you. They'll kick you outta there.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 59:13 "You can't vote now, sir." I don't know what they would do if you came in with a lanyard. That might be the move. But the point is, they made it easier to cheat on purpose. Like that's the only reason why you would do that. And to say like it's racist to require ID? How do I know who you are? I don't know you. There's a million people in this fucking town and this is like, uh, one polling station. There's a line around the block. I don't know you. I need your ID. This is crazy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:38 There was, there was a clip from-

Joe Rogan 59:39 This is crazy.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:39 ... the Obama election that I remember watching where they were talking to a guy who was like... They asked him, "Have you ever voted before?" He said, "No." "Did you vote?" He goes, "Yeah, it felt so good, I went back and did it again."

Joe Rogan 59:48 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:48 And then they cut off to somebody else.

Joe Rogan 59:50 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:50 But I've always remembered that that film.

Joe Rogan 59:52 Yeah, if you don't have ID you could just change your clothes and go back in, especially if you're a non-descript, you know, person.

James Donald Forbes McCann 59:59 I don't have an anti-Gavin Newsom bent, but I don't understand why he's the guy the Dems are pushing.

Joe Rogan 1:00:04 Because it's-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:05 He's from a state that everybody agrees is in a huge disrepair.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 He doesn't agree to that. He thinks it's killing it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:11 They can't build a train.

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 No, no, no, it's great.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:13 They've wasted billions of dollars-

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 No, no, no.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:14 ... trying to get a reasonably short distance covered with a train.

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 Listen-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:18 And he can't do it.

Joe Rogan 1:00:19 They're gonna get it worked out. He's gonna be president and then he's gonna fix it all. The problem is Trump. The reason why it's Trump, Trump is the real reason why California has failed, is Trump. Once he gets into office, Trump will be out and he'll fix the whole country and say, "Guys, you gotta trust me on the long plan."

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:34 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 People will buy into it. The reason why is 'cause there's no one else. This is the reason.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:40 There must be so many charismatic-

Joe Rogan 1:00:41 They force so many people that are rational out.... so many people that aren't corrupt, they force them out, and then other people don't want their laundry dug up. They don't want fake stories-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:51 Yeah. They don't do this.

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 ... told about them. They don't want ex-girlfriends to get paid off to come up with crackpot theories of them being a satanic person or, you know, what- whatever.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:00:59 This is why-

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 Drug addict, abusive.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:01 All right, this-

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 You did this.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:02 Only people who are s-

Joe Rogan 1:01:04 Left a dead bear in the park.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:05 You should get, like, Bill Cosby as the candidate. Or people of Bill Cosby-level stature. This is my new idea.

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 Okay.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:12 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:01:13 Let me hear it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:14 Just someone who is so ... You, there's nothing to blackmail them with. People already think this is one of the worst people imaginable.

Joe Rogan 1:01:19 R. Kelly for president.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:21 Right. You can't... Everyone knows he had a dungeon-

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:24 ... with a lady in it. Okay? You can't blackmail R. Kelly at this point. So whatever R. Kelly says he wants to do, he probably wants to do that. His reputation can't get any lower.

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 Right.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:33 If you only put forward people who have done terrible things.

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 Yeah, but-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:38 If Epstein was still alive, you could have him, right? Because what are you gonna blackmail him with? He was getting ... He was doing all sorts of terrible things.

Joe Rogan 1:01:42 Well, you would like to have a very good person who just hasn't done terrible things, 'cause they're just a very good person.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:48 Yeah, but you can just lie about them. The only security against being blackmailed, even about a lie-

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 Is to be a total piece of shit.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:53 ... is to be the worst man in the country.

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 Right. Yeah, well-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:01:58 No one likes my idea.

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 It's a good idea for now. I think what we're gonna really be able to know within the next few years is whether or not you're telling the truth. I think with, uh, wearable electronics, I think-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:11 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:02:11 ... ultimately they're trying to do something that allows you to communicate head to head. Have you seen that stuff where they do it?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:17 I'm not getting it. I don't want it.

Joe Rogan 1:02:18 Have you seen ... Well, the ... What they have right now is a wearable. These guys put it on, they think something, and then the other person hears it. It-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:25 This is one of the worst things I've ever heard.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 Oh, you have to see it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:28 We're doing that?

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 You have to see it. It's crazy when you watch them actually do it. So right now it's attached to an actual computer behind them, but that's for now. I- eventually it's going to be wearable. Just like everything, it gets smaller. I mean, this is bigger than-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:40 You're, you're so much more relaxed with the AI stuff and the technology than I am.

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 You can't-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:45 I'm fighting it.

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 If you see the asteroid coming, you have to realize you're gonna die. Like, there's nothing you can do about it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:51 The Amish have continued very happily-

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 I don't-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:02:53 ... with their carts.

Joe Rogan 1:02:54 ... think it's going to be as disastrous as everybody thinks. I just don't believe that. I think we'll figure it out. But I think it's gonna be a massive upheaval of our total ... Uh, completely our economic system, our life system, the way we interact. But we have to realize, this is what's really important, the way we interact is really new. The way we live in cities stacked in high rises and driving around in cars, this is a tiny little blip in time that the human race has existed like this. Before that, we had a totally different thing. And for the longest time people, traded things back and forth and they, they used gold coins and silver coins and, and there was no stock market. Like, this whole thing that we're doing right now with automation and you're worried about it's taking jobs, those jobs weren't even a thing-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:03:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:48 ... in the past. Yeah, we've built this giant population based on the fact that jobs would exist, or it gave people the confidence to procreate, get married and have kids and, and this ... We'll find another way. We'll have to. People will have to. It'll ... It's just it's not gonna be pretty, but it's just like everything else that happens, it's this massive change in society and culture. We're gonna have to adapt.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:11 I'm in, I'm in flight mode on it. I wanna be-

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 I know you are.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:15 ... on an acreage, you know I am. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:04:16 You get nervous when I play AI music in the green room.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:18 I do. When I go, "This is good." And you go, "AI!" And I go, "Gah!"

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 Oh, yeah. Yeah, you love that country-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:23 That's true, um-

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 That country one I played the other day?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:25 I-

Joe Rogan 1:04:25 That was good, right?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:26 The 50 Cent stuff is fantastic.

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 Ooh.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:28 My favorite remains the Japanese cover of Oasis.

Joe Rogan 1:04:31 Mm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:32 Ah, have you heard Japanese Oasis?

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 No, I have not.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:34 If you type in Japanese Wonderwall, it is-

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 Oh, let's go.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:38 I get ... I like it a lot. But one day.

Joe Rogan 1:04:39 Can we play it? Can we play it, Jamie?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:41 I've listened to it 100 times.

Joe Rogan 1:04:42 Or would it be an issue? We gotta cut it out.

Narrator 1:04:44 We'd have to cut it out.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 We'd have to cut it out? All right, we'll cut it out.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:45 I don't think anyone owns the rights to Japanese-

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 They might. (laughs) Somebody probably does.

Narrator 1:04:49 The people who wrote the song Wonderwall do.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:51 Really?

Narrator 1:04:52 That's how that works.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:53 Hm.

Narrator 1:04:54 The performance of this would be a different situation, but ...

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:04:58 I can do it now. I can do it acapella.

Joe Rogan 1:05:00 (laughs) Let's hear it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:00 You'd get in a lot of trouble.

Joe Rogan 1:05:01 Let's hear it. Wonderwall Oasis cover, Japanese Enka is the, uh, title on YouTube.

Narrator 1:05:09 This is the right one? I'm hoping.

Joe Rogan 1:05:10 Yeah, this is it.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:10 Yeah, this is it.

Joe Rogan 1:05:10 New Wave Films is the, uh, page. Uh, you have a problem. Stop this.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:16 I love this.

Joe Rogan 1:05:17 Stop this. Stop this.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:17 (laughs) I love that.

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 Stop this. You're a sick man, James Quigley.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:20 << (singing in Chinese) (Japanese) ?>>

Joe Rogan 1:05:20 Why do you like that?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:22 'Cause it's the e- the funniest voice of all time.

Joe Rogan 1:05:25 But it's weird, 'cause it's not a real person and it looks like an old video.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:28 So they, they've cut up an old video and put it over the AI music.

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 Oh, that's what they did.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:32 But if you look very closely-

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 So they have these people singing over things?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:33 ... you can find the original music and she's singing some beautiful folk song about a sad man.

Joe Rogan 1:05:36 Oh, I thought it was like AI generated video. 'Cause you could do that, you know?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:40 No, I just ... I wanna retreat for a minute. I wanna be on a farm, I wanna have a chicken.

Joe Rogan 1:05:43 Hm.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:05:44 I know, but this is also not like a serious way to build a society. I'm shocked that no one's blowing up the servers. Like when they invented the loom, people in Britain were like, "We will destroy all of the looms." No one is, like, upset now that robots can think.

Joe Rogan 1:06:01 Well, they don't know what to do, right?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:06:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 And it feels inevitable because it is. No one's gonna stop it, and if they did stop it, no one would listen. And if we did listen, the problem is China's not gonna listen. And it, it's a Manhattan Project kind of race.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:06:15 Yes, but then you go, "Okay, we've got to get the nuclear bomb first." But how does that pan out in the end?

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 Well, here's-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:06:20 Is that everybody has a nuclear bomb.

Joe Rogan 1:06:21 But here's the thing. You have to have one. Like if AI exists and they can take over your financial system, they could do ... Like you're gonna have to have AI that combats AI, and your AI better be better than A- their AI.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:06:36 I like the idea-

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 And you have to have everything protected against AI.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:06:38 I wanna lose in a fabulous way that inspires people, like a martyr.

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 That's what you wanna do?

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:06:44 That's what, me personally?

Joe Rogan 1:06:44 That's why you should be the king of Australia.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:06:46 (laughs) ... no, I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 That's like your, that should be your speech.

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:06:49 Yeah, but you lo- yeah, we're gonna lose. We're gonna lose-

Joe Rogan 1:06:51 (laughs)

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:06:52 ... and people are gonna be so... they're gonna respect how we lose. This is the Christian message-

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 Well-

James Donald Forbes McCann 1:06:57 ... of getting defeated, and