Joe Rogan Experience #2439 - Johnny Knoxville

Speaker 0:00 [upbeat music]

Speaker 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day! [upbeat music]

Joe Rogan 0:12 Yeah. Yeah, he's the dude who said, "Fuck you," all day, and he choked you to sleep.

Speaker 0:15 Oh. [laughing] I would pay for to see that.

Joe Rogan 0:19 How did you meet judo Gene LeBell?

Speaker 0:21 I met him first on Men in Black II.

Joe Rogan 0:25 Oh, he was-

Speaker 0:26 He was a stuntman.

Joe Rogan 0:27 Oh, okay.

Speaker 0:29 A stunt- And, uh, people would... The stunt people would line up outside his trailer, so they, uh... So he would choke them out.

Joe Rogan 0:36 [laughing]

Speaker 0:36 And he would give you that little-- he would give you a patch afterwards. "You've been choked out by judo Gene LeBell."

Joe Rogan 0:42 Oh, God. [groans] He had all those cartoonish patches.

Speaker 0:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:46 He'd, like, give you a bunch of those. He's a character, man.

Speaker 0:49 He, uh... One guy, I saw one, uh, the stuntman, right before Gene choked him out, he goes, "One second," this Irish dude. And he, and he turned around, and he slapped Gene in the face. And Gene's like... "Okay."

Joe Rogan 1:03 [laughing]

Speaker 1:03 And then, w- after Gene choked him, they were standing up, Gene just dropped him- [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:08 Oh!

Speaker 1:08 ... straight to the ground for slapping him. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:11 Ooh. You can get hurt like that.

Speaker 1:14 Yeah, well, that's what you get for slapping Gene LeBell.

Joe Rogan 1:17 Yeah, don't slap him. Give him a kiss. Kiss him on the cheek before he chokes you out.

Speaker 1:20 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 1:20 Don't slap him. [laughing] Do you remember, he had one of the very first ever mixed martial arts fights.

Speaker 1:26 Oh, yeah, it was the... He fought-

Joe Rogan 1:27 Milo Savage.

Speaker 1:28 Yes!

Joe Rogan 1:29 Yeah.

Speaker 1:29 And didn't Milo Savage grease himself up-

Joe Rogan 1:31 Uh-huh

Speaker 1:31 ... beforehand?

Joe Rogan 1:32 Oh, yeah. But also, G- Gene was wearing a gi, which kinda negates most of the, the grease-

Speaker 1:38 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:39 ... 'cause you're wearing this, like, very friction-y gi. So he grabbed him.

Speaker 1:43 And where was... I guess the rumor was Milo Savage's gloves were loaded?

Joe Rogan 1:49 Uh, I don't know. I would do that, though, if I was Milo Savage. [laughing]

Speaker 1:53 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:53 Like, get away with it.

Speaker 1:53 I would have some kind of weapon against Gene LeBell.

Joe Rogan 1:56 Well, most people that have never grappled a guy like that, they... You don't have any idea how helpless you actually are until, like... You think, "I'll be able to push him away from me."

Speaker 2:04 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:05 "I'll be able to push him away and get some punches off." You really don't know until that guy grabs you, and it's like being grabbed by an orangutan.

Speaker 2:11 Yeah, 'cause his mom ran the Grand Olympic Auditorium, right? And he grew up training with all the disciplines of fighters that came through there.

Joe Rogan 2:21 Well, he definitely knew pretty much everything. He knew a lot, but, you know, obviously, he was a judo specialist. But he's the guy who taught Bruce Lee about the importance of grappling.

Speaker 2:29 Yeah, 'cause he worked with him on The Green Hornet?

Joe Rogan 2:32 Yeah, he wor- I think he worked with him on that. Um, but when he locked up with Bruce Lee, like, Bruce Lee was like, "Oh, okay, I'm helpless."

Speaker 2:40 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:40 Like, apparently, the story is that Gene picked him up and carried him around over his shoulder. And then Bruce Lee was like, "Okay, fuck this."

Speaker 2:48 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:48 'Cause, like, Gene was a light... I think he was a light heavyweight judo champion, so, I mean, he's probably at least 190 pounds. And, you know, Bruce Lee was a pretty small guy.

Speaker 2:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:59 And Gene just grabbed him.

Speaker 3:02 His face just looked like a catcher's mitt.

Joe Rogan 3:04 Yeah. [laughing]

Speaker 3:05 It was just... Just looking at that guy's face.

Joe Rogan 3:08 Yeah, he was a classic.

Speaker 3:09 And always check out a guy's ears before you talk shit with him.

Joe Rogan 3:12 [laughing] Yes.

Speaker 3:13 If they have that, uh, you know-

Joe Rogan 3:16 Cauliflower?

Speaker 3:16 ... cauliflower ear, just buy him a drink or give him a hug.

Joe Rogan 3:19 But doesn't Steve-O have that? Didn't he get it from, like... Didn't he have Jon Jones fuck his ears up?

Speaker 3:23 He tried to get it. I don't know if it happened. We, you know, we tried to do... I tried to do that to, uh, the director, Jeff Tremaine, on Jackass Number Two. Every time someone would walk past him, they would grab his ear and twist, and we were just hoping it would cauliflower up by the end of the film, but it didn't. Um, you gotta earn that.

Joe Rogan 3:42 Yeah. There's a lot of guys who fake it, though. I know a lot of jujitsu guys who fake it. They have guys fuck their ears up on purpose-

Speaker 3:48 Oh, that's-

Joe Rogan 3:49 ... 'cause they wanna look cool.

Speaker 3:50 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 3:50 It's kinda weak.

Speaker 3:52 Yeah, that's... You gotta earn it.

Joe Rogan 3:54 Yeah. It's, uh, it's like Robert De Niro in that movie where he wouldn't take Viagra, remember? "A hard-on should be earned."

Speaker 4:02 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 4:02 "It should be had legitimately or not at all."

Speaker 4:05 The old-fashioned way, with eye contact.

Joe Rogan 4:07 There was some... Wasn't that some weird movie where he was going... He was a mob boss, but he was going to a shrink, and he couldn't get it up? [laughing]

Speaker 4:13 Oh!

Joe Rogan 4:14 Remember that movie?

Speaker 4:14 Yeah. Was it Billy Crystal was the sh-

Joe Rogan 4:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Speaker 4:17 ... the shrink?

Joe Rogan 4:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4:18 I don't remember the name of it, but yeah, I know what you're talking about.

Joe Rogan 4:21 Dude, you've had a wild ride in, in life, you know what I mean? You've, you've done a lot of crazy shit, not just, like, with Jackass, but you became a movie star, and, you know, like, w- what has this been like for you?

Speaker 4:35 Um, sometimes it feels like you're living someone else's life, you know?

Joe Rogan 4:39 Imposter syndrome?

Speaker 4:40 Yeah, a little. And, um, I'm s- I'm extremely grateful, especially for a guy with my limited education. I get the joke, what I would be doing if I didn't fall into what I'm doing. So, uh, yeah, it's pretty surreal. I just keep trying to move forward.

Joe Rogan 5:00 How did you guys get started with Jackass? How did, how did all that come to bear?

Speaker 5:04 Um, well, I... The short answer is my then girlfriend got pregnant, and I had a daughter on the way, and I was... I'd moved to LA to act, but I wasn't doing anything, man. I was drinking a lot and, um... And then I'm like, "Oh, shit, I have to support a daughter. I need to do something quick." So I, I was living next door to Antoine Fuqua in this duplex, the director.

Joe Rogan 5:35 Oh, wow.

Speaker 5:35 And he set me up with a casting director, who got me a commercial agent. My friend, John Lenson, uh, set me up with writing articles for this magazine, and, 'cause he knew I wanted to write. And one of the articles turned into me testing self-defense equipment on myself.

Joe Rogan 5:54 [laughing]

Speaker 5:55 And a lot of different magazines wanted the article, but they didn't want anything to do with it because I was gonna shoot myself in the chest with a bulletproof vest-... as the last thing. It was, like, stun gun, taser gun, pepper spray. And Jeff Tremaine, who now directs Jackass, he was the editor of Big Brother Magazine, a skateboarding magazine owned by Larry Flynt. And he goes, "You can write it for us, and I'll help you buy a couple of the things, and the stun gun, and the taser gun." And I took the money my mom gave me for Christmas and bought the cheapest bulletproof vest they had for the last thing, and-

Joe Rogan 6:30 You don't wanna skimp on a bulletproof vest.

Speaker 6:32 I... That's all, that's all I could afford.

Joe Rogan 6:35 Well-

Speaker 6:35 It was either no stun gun or taser gun, and, um, so anyway-

Joe Rogan 6:40 Well-

Speaker 6:40 ... Jeff says, "Hey, why don't you film that article that you're writing, and we'll put it in our skateboard video?" And it kind of snowballed from there.

Joe Rogan 6:47 Oh, so that was the genesis of it.

Speaker 6:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:50 Wow! Isn't it weird how, like, desperation or, like, the recognition that, like, oh, you have responsibilities, like, you gotta get going, just lights a fire under your ass? You become, like, a totally different person.

Speaker 7:01 It was like... I deal with a certain amount of overcoming fear or whatever when doing the stunts, but there was never any fear, like, "You have a daughter on the way, and you have to figure out how to support her."

Joe Rogan 7:18 Yeah.

Speaker 7:18 I was... I had to do something quick, and that was my best guess.

Joe Rogan 7:23 Yeah, it's the mother of invention, man.

Speaker 7:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:26 That, that necessity-

Speaker 7:28 Yeah

Joe Rogan 7:28 ... understanding. Like, being a dad and having to take care of people, it just changes everything.

Speaker 7:34 Yeah, like, "What am I doing?"

Joe Rogan 7:36 Yeah.

Speaker 7:36 "I, I... You know what I'm doing? I'm doing fucking nothing, and I need to do something."

Joe Rogan 7:40 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 7:41 So-

Joe Rogan 7:42 Yeah, it's a, it's a primal feeling, right?

Speaker 7:45 Yeah. It changed everything.

Joe Rogan 7:48 But [chuckles] what, but what, when you're doing this... Like, first of all, what round, what caliber of revolver did you get shot with?

Speaker 7:56 Well, the vest was the cheapest one, so it could take a .38, and I got a .38.

Joe Rogan 8:04 Well-

Speaker 8:04 I borrowed it from my neighbor's wife. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 8:06 Jesus Christ! [laughs]

Speaker 8:10 There wasn't a lot of pre-production on this, Joe.

Joe Rogan 8:12 How far away were you when you got shot?

Speaker 8:14 Like, the-

Joe Rogan 8:14 Oh!

Speaker 8:14 Well, my, my buddy was supposed to shoot me, but we just... We drove out to 14 and... 'Cause we didn't have a location, and I'm like, "Pull off here." And then we pull off this exit, and I'm like, "Okay, make a right," and we ended up on a fire road. So we get out there, and my friend's like, "I, I'm not gonna shoot you, man. I can't do it." I'm like, "Well-"

Joe Rogan 8:37 [laughs]

Speaker 8:38 So I'm like, "All right, well, give me the gun."

Joe Rogan 8:41 [laughs]

Speaker 8:41 And [laughs] I'm, um, I'm sh- I got the gun to my chest, and a car pulls up behind me, and it's a bunch of tweakers. They're driving down the fire road. They're like, "H- how do we get to the freeway?" And I got the gun behind my back, and I'm like, "Hey, you just go down here and make a right, then a left." Uh, and they drove away, and so I went back to shooting myself.

Joe Rogan 9:04 [laughs]

Speaker 9:06 It was sketchy. It looked like a snuff film, the, the... Because my friends are, m- my... The photographer on it saw his buddy die 'cause he jumped off a hotel trying to hit a swimming pool and-

Joe Rogan 9:19 Oh!

Speaker 9:20 ... didn't hit that swimming pool, and-

Joe Rogan 9:22 Oh, God

Speaker 9:22 ... so he was really scared, right? He was like, "Stop, don't do this. Don't do this. Stop."

Joe Rogan 9:27 Oh.

Speaker 9:27 I wasn't getting a lot of positive reinforcement, Joe.

Joe Rogan 9:30 Yeah, it doesn't seem like it.

Speaker 9:31 [chuckles] And I had a bunch of, uh... 'Cause since it was Flint Magazine, I had a bunch of, uh, Hustlers under the bulletproof vest to help absorb the impact.

Joe Rogan 9:39 [laughs]

Speaker 9:39 And at one point, they all fall out, and I bend over to pick them up, and I'm pointing the gun right at my friends as I pick them up. I don't realize this, but it was sketchy.

Joe Rogan 9:49 And that was the first?

Speaker 9:51 Yeah, we put that in the Big Brother video.

Joe Rogan 9:53 Had you ever done anything, like, self-harming, any dangerous type activities before you started Jackass, before you started doing all this kind of shit?

Speaker 10:02 N- no, no. I didn't even know what self... I mean-

Joe Rogan 10:05 [laughs]

Speaker 10:06 ... you can, you can argue me- my drinking didn't help my liver, but, uh-

Joe Rogan 10:10 [chuckles] But it's like, you guys... Like, what you did was kind of fucking crazy.

Speaker 10:18 But when you... I guess if you stop to... I don't know. Like, it just becomes something you're doing. It was all normal to me, and d- I, I, I can't speak for them. It's just, "That's what we're doing today."

Joe Rogan 10:36 And so that was the first one, and then h- how, how many times have you done a stunt where you're like, "This, I could die"?

Speaker 10:45 A few.

Joe Rogan 10:45 Like, you've done... Like, the bull one, where you're blindfolded-

Speaker 10:49 Oh, right.

Joe Rogan 10:49 I w- I watched... I was like, "Don't do that." I was watching that. I was like, "This is crazy."

Speaker 10:53 Yeah, that was a... Yeah, that was... Anytime you're working with a bull, I think that, uh, they hate you, and... Well, really, they hate movement, and they wanna make you stop moving [chuckles] forever. And, um... But I've had, you know, I mean, like in the Jackass Number Two, when the rocket exploded, those were foot-long metal rods, and there was 12 of them. One blew out right next to my ribs, which would've been picture wrap on me, and one flew back 300 yards and split two of our, uh, art guys right between them.

Joe Rogan 11:30 [exhales]

Speaker 11:30 That would've... It was... We've had some really close ones. I tried to do the Buster Keaton thing in number two, where the facade falls-

Joe Rogan 11:38 Uh-huh

Speaker 11:38 ... and it falls right... The window falls over my head. That was the plan, and the guy's like, "Okay, when it's on..." 'Cause it was the, it was the close, right, of the movie, and the guy's like, "This is a 20-foot steel wall. Like, you hit your mark, do not move." I'm like, "Got it." And they said, "Action!" And then, so I take two steps, and-... They're like, "Ah, no, no, cut, cut." So I just like, "Oh, okay, I'm gonna walk over here," and they'd already released the wall.

Joe Rogan 12:16 [gasps]

Speaker 12:17 Yeah, and if you watch the footage, it crushes me to the ground, but my head just makes it through the window, otherwise that would've been... I would've been done.

Joe Rogan 12:29 Oh, geez, dude.

Speaker 12:30 Yeah. Yeah. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 12:35 Oh, my God.

Speaker 12:35 That was a close one.

Joe Rogan 12:39 God.

Speaker 12:41 Yeah, the-

Joe Rogan 12:41 How heavy was that fucking thing?

Speaker 12:43 I don't... It was a 20-foot steel wall. It was, it was incredibly heavy.

Joe Rogan 12:48 How bad did you get fucked up from that?

Speaker 12:50 I... Nothing.

Joe Rogan 12:52 Nothing?

Speaker 12:53 I'm like, I- it was, it was a, a... Like, I was very lucky. I'm also hyper-limber, so it just, I kinda accordioned when, on impact.

Joe Rogan 13:05 Just dumb luck.

Speaker 13:06 Dumb [chuckles] and it's story of my life.

Joe Rogan 13:08 [laughing] How many... It's all, I mean, all told, how many stunts have you done like that?

Speaker 13:15 Oh, I haven't... Oh, the almost, almost-

Joe Rogan 13:18 Yeah

Speaker 13:19 ... kaput? Ah, I, I, I don't know. Like, there's at least six or seven, like, close calls, and then, and then any number of stunts that can go wrong, you know? I don't know. I don't really... I just look forward. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 13:42 Was there ever a time when you're doing this and going, "What the fuck have I got myself into?"

Speaker 13:45 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 13:47 Like, 'cause you have to keep up, one-upping yourself, right?

Speaker 13:50 Um, well, that was a problem for me after we did the first movie. Uh, I didn't wanna do a second movie because I didn't know how to top the first one, which now looks very tame compared to the others. And finally, uh, Tremaine said, "You don't, we don't have to top it. We just have to be funny." And I'm like, "Okay." That made me free. That, I... It took away all my anxiety, and I thought, "Okay, if, if that's the case..." And a couple months later, he, he told me he was lying, and we did have to top it, but it, by that time, I was already off and running.

Joe Rogan 14:39 Jesus, dude.

Speaker 14:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:42 Your show would really give me anxiety.

Speaker 14:44 [chuckles] It gives the guys an- they, they, they get really anxious because I know 98.5% of what's happening on the set. Like, Jeff and I each, we keep a little from each other, so if we wanna smoke one another, so-

Joe Rogan 15:04 [laughing]

Speaker 15:04 ... But the guys don't have any idea what's happening. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 15:08 [laughing]

Speaker 15:08 So by the second week, you can just literally go up and put your finger on someone's shoulder, and they're like, "Jesus!" [laughing]

Joe Rogan 15:16 [laughing]

Speaker 15:16 They're so, so nervous, and I, and I, I don't blame them.

Joe Rogan 15:21 And, like, when you film one of those movies, like, how long is a shoot? Like, how, how many m- months do you film for?

Speaker 15:27 Well, that depends. On Jackass Number Two... Usually, about, we go two weeks on, two weeks off over four, five months, but I think Jackass Number Two, it was eight or nine months.

Joe Rogan 15:44 [laughing]

Speaker 15:44 And finally, they had to have an intervention with me to stop shooting.

Joe Rogan 15:49 [laughing]

Speaker 15:50 They, "Hey, like, come down to the office tomorrow. We're gonna finalize the edit or, or do something in the edit." I'm like, "All right," and I get there, and it's Spike, Jeff, a few of the cast, and, uh, and they're like, "We're, we're not here to talk about the edit." I'm like, "Okay." "Like, we have to stop shooting. We're, like, so far over." And then it was also about I was going to do the ski jump. You know, the Olympic ski jump, and it was, uh... They're like: "You... We have too much footage. You can't. Let's just not... You've already put yourself on the line so much, you can't." And, and then it became like, well, I'm not... I didn't... I, I decided not to because I felt like this big intervention, they had... It was, like, doomed. The stunt was doomed in my mind then, that something negative was gonna happen. So I ended up not doing the, the ski jump, but I did negotiate two more weeks of shooting out of them.

Joe Rogan 16:58 [chuckles] How far were you supposed to jump?

Speaker 17:01 It's... Until I went kaboom. I don't know. It was going to be a, the Olympic ski jump.

Joe Rogan 17:07 Like, when they fly?

Speaker 17:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:08 And do you know how to ski?

Speaker 17:09 Not at all.

Joe Rogan 17:11 Ugh! [laughing]

Speaker 17:12 [laughing] Yeah, I don't wanna be good at the stunt.

Joe Rogan 17:17 Uh-

Speaker 17:17 Nobody wants to see that.

Joe Rogan 17:18 Well, I mean, you'd have to train for years to be good at it, but I mean, I was just-

Speaker 17:22 I, I had about 20 minutes.

Joe Rogan 17:24 Oh.

Speaker 17:25 So that didn't happen, but, um, uh, I don't even know how we got on this. Um-

Joe Rogan 17:32 This episode was brought to you by Amazon MGM Studios' new movie, Mercy, only in theaters January 23. Set in the near future, trials are run by artificial intelligence that has access to every camera, phone, and database. Chris Pratt plays a detective on trial, and he has 90 minutes to prove his innocence to an AI judge, played by Rebecca Ferguson. Directed by Timur Bekmambetov, you've gotta experience this movie on the big screen, especially in IMAX 3D. Get tickets now at MercyMovie.com. Rated PG-13.

Speaker 18:10 Ooh, wow.

Joe Rogan 18:11 But, uh, so are you done with all that stuff, or would you consider doing it again?

Speaker 18:16 Well, I k-... I can't do any stunt where I would get a concussion now, because I've had too many. The last one was really gnarly. Uh, I kinda went offline for a while, and, um-

Joe Rogan 18:33 What one was that?

Speaker 18:34 In, at the end of, in Jackass Forever, I dressed up as a magician, and I got obsessed with the idea of pranking an animal. Uh, I just wanted, uh, the thought of seeing the animal's reaction after the prank, and that kinda, uh, morphed into me dressing as a magician in a bullring, doing the, uh, pouring the milk in the hat trick to get the bull's reaction. And apparently, the, the bull didn't think much of my trick, 'cause it, uh, it... Well, first of all, u- usually when you're working with a bull in a ring, there's a lot of soft dirt around, you know? And I got there that morning, and it was, it was just dirt, but no so- it was like concrete. And I thought to myself, "Well, that's a problem," and, but we're there. We need... I, I'm shooting. So anyway, long story short, the bull, the bull hits me, and I... U- usually, when a bull hits you, well, always, they drop their head, right? So I always try to jump a split second before it hits me, so I get a- above the bull as opposed to the bu- below the bull, which is never any fun. So, but I mistime my jump. I jump too early, so I jumped, and then I start coming back down, and then the bull hits me, and it flips me, like... I do, like, a one and a half flip, and the only thing that stops me is the back of the head, my back of my head [inhales] hitting the, uh, concrete ground.

Joe Rogan 20:20 Oh, dude!

Speaker 20:21 And I got a concussion with a brain hemorrhage, a broken rib, and a broken wrist out of the deal.

Joe Rogan 20:28 And that was it.

Speaker 20:29 And yeah, it was, it was so-

Joe Rogan 20:32 And this is after you let Butterbean KO you, too.

Speaker 20:35 Lucky punch. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 20:38 [laughing] That fucking dude hit so hard! I watched that, and I was like, "Don't let that happen."

Speaker 20:43 Oh.

Joe Rogan 20:44 Don't do that.

Speaker 20:45 He d- like, everyone's like, "Boy, that knockout punch must've hurt." I'm like, "I didn't even feel it." Like, the punches before really hurt, [chuckles] but the knockout punch, you don't... You, y- you've been knocked out before, you don't feel it. [laughing] Um, that one was a pretty bad concussion, too. Um, I had vertigo for six to eight weeks after that.

Joe Rogan 21:08 Gee!

Speaker 21:08 Just driving around a curve, everything starts spinning.

Joe Rogan 21:11 Oh, did you go to a hospital and get checked out?

Speaker 21:14 Well, I went to see my doctor, Dr. Kipper, and he, uh, s- he had to sew up my head because I fell back onto the hard ground of the swap meet. And my, I, I, I think I hit my head on the corner of a display counter as well. I, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 21:32 Fuck, dude.

Speaker 21:33 Should've went to college.

Joe Rogan 21:36 [laughing] Uh, do, do you ever feel any responsibility for how many people you inspire to do similar things?

Speaker 21:43 Um, well, I hope to just entertain them and not inspire them, but, um-

Joe Rogan 21:52 Well, it has to be-

Speaker 21:52 I can't... I don't have any control over that, es- uh, except for when I do things like this, like, just watch, don't do. Uh, I, I don't want anyone to get hurt. I, you know, me, I'm another story.

Joe Rogan 22:07 It's kind of amazing that you're okay, you know, other than the bad concussions.

Speaker 22:12 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty okay with how it turned out.

Joe Rogan 22:18 What, what, what's the worst injury that anybody ever suffered during Jackass filming?

Speaker 22:24 Um, [tsks] wow! There's been many concussions, breaks. Uh, um, I, I don't know, just lot... The arm breaks, back breaks.

Joe Rogan 22:43 Do you have any, like, long-term problems because of it?

Speaker 22:47 Um, my lower back is pretty blown out. Um, and who knows about, [scoffs] uh, how the concussions will, uh, rectify themselves? Um, hopefully, I'm okay.

Joe Rogan 23:03 Do you feel any lingering effects?

Speaker 23:05 Well, my lower back's blown out, so I, I just had a Intracept procedure on my back about on, in-

Joe Rogan 23:12 What's that?

Speaker 23:13 ... early December. They're, they go, the, the nerve and the vertebra, uh, they go in and, like, somehow use, uh, radiofrequency heat to basically burn the nerve so it-

Joe Rogan 23:29 So you don't feel anything?

Speaker 23:29 ... can't send the signal to your brain that it's hurt.

Joe Rogan 23:32 Oh, so you just walk around hurt, but you don't feel it?

Speaker 23:34 I don't know. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:36 Oh.

Speaker 23:37 I'm fine with that.

Joe Rogan 23:37 Is it doing continual damage, or is it just pain?

Speaker 23:41 I think it, uh, it seems to be, uh... And that's an excellent question that I did not ask- [laughing] ... nor did I care about, but thank you for bringing it up. I think, uh, to me, it's just pain, so I, you know.

Joe Rogan 23:56 Jesus. Have you done anything else for it? Like, there's a bunch of different... Well, is it a, a herniated disc? Is it a-

Speaker 24:02 Yeah, the, the lower two discs are herniated, and, uh, I had, uh, shots in the facet joints of my lower, uh, back. It was like they put some kind of steroid in there, and it didn't give the result that I wanted. Um-

Joe Rogan 24:20 ... Have you ever heard of a machine called a reverse hyper?

Speaker 24:23 No.

Joe Rogan 24:24 There's a machine that a guy named Louie Simmons, he was this, uh, legendary powerlifter guy. He developed because he had, uh, fucked his discs up powerlifting, and the doctors told him that he needed to fuse his disc-

Speaker 24:36 Yeah

Joe Rogan 24:36 ... because they were compressed. And he's like, "Well, can't we decompress them?" And they're like, "No, there's no way." He's like, "Well, there's gotta be a way." So he developed a machine that decompresses the spine while also strengthening the muscles around it. It's a piece of exercise. That's Louie. Uh, he developed this machine-

Speaker 24:53 Looks like something that happened to, uh, uh, Ving Rhames in Pulp Fiction. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 24:58 [laughing]

Speaker 24:58 The, well, that, that's, it... What does the machine do? It strengthens and-

Joe Rogan 25:02 You see, on the way up, when she's lifting with her legs, it's strengthening her back, and on the s- the down swing, it's actively decompressing your back. So it, like, pulls the discs apart and creates space. I love this machine.

Speaker 25:16 Wow!

Joe Rogan 25:16 I have one at home. I have one here at the studio. I use it all the time. It's really a, an important piece of equipment for anybody that has a lower back injury or who wants to prevent lower back injuries, and just for overall strength, 'cause it's a very odd movement to be able to recreate.

Speaker 25:31 Oh, great. Well, I'm gonna look into that because-

Joe Rogan 25:33 Yeah, I'll show it to you.

Speaker 25:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:34 We have it in the gym afterwards. I'll show it to you after the podcast.

Speaker 25:37 Oh, sweet. Thanks.

Joe Rogan 25:37 You should get one. It'll help you.

Speaker 25:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:39 And there's another thing called a Teeter. Uh, you know those things you hang by your ankles?

Speaker 25:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:44 Where you, like, decompress?

Speaker 25:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:45 They developed one called the Dex, where you hinge from your waist. So you, like, get in this thing, you strap your legs in, and you lean forward, and it's like you're hanging from... Like that. So you're hanging from your hips. Like, all your, your weight is being, like, set on your, your thighs, and your back carries all the weight, and it just slowly, like, pop, pop, pop, it decompresses. It feels great.

Speaker 26:12 Well, there you go.

Joe Rogan 26:12 That thing, that thing fucking rules. I always tell everybody, "If you, you have a back injury, you have back problems, that thing will help you a lot." Just do that for a few minutes every day, and event- you know, slowly over time-

Speaker 26:23 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 26:23 ... it creates space, and it alleviates some of the pinching and, you know, problems that people have, depending, of course, on the severity of your injury.

Speaker 26:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:33 But I love that thing.

Speaker 26:34 All right.

Joe Rogan 26:36 Prevent it.

Speaker 26:36 Might be getting a couple pieces of equipment. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 26:38 Yeah, man, you gotta, you gotta prevent. So how the fuck did they talk you into hosting Fear Factor? How'd that happen? [chuckles]

Speaker 26:44 Um, I met with, uh, Sharon Levy, who runs Endemol.

Joe Rogan 26:50 I know Sharon.

Speaker 26:51 And-

Joe Rogan 26:52 Shout out to Sharon Levy.

Speaker 26:53 She's awesome. And I, I was like, "I'm on, I'm on the fence," you know? I... [clears throat] And I sat down with her, and I liked her so much, 'cause she seems like... Like, how did a woman like you, that's, is, like, awesome, uh, get a job as the head of... You know?

Joe Rogan 27:14 Right.

Speaker 27:14 She seems very rebellious.

Joe Rogan 27:16 Right. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 27:17 And I just thought, "Yeah, I'm in." So, uh, it happened over a lunch.

Joe Rogan 27:23 Really?

Speaker 27:24 Yeah, I really liked her.

Joe Rogan 27:26 Um, one of the problems that we had with Fear Factor is we did 148 episodes initially, and then we came back for a brief amount of time, but they wanted to really ramp it up. Like, it was like, "The, these stunts are gonna be bigger and crazier than ever," and I was relieved when it got canceled, 'cause I was like, "We're gonna fuck somebody up."

Speaker 27:47 I... Yeah, you felt... What, what kind of, uh... Well, you have a couple of examples or-

Joe Rogan 27:52 Well, there was a bunch in the early days. Like, first, the first one that we ever did, where I was like, "Don't do this"-

Speaker 27:57 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 27:57 ... was bull riding. We made people bull ride, and this one lady was like... She probably weighed, like, 98 pounds.

Speaker 28:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:04 And she got on the back of the bull, I'm like, "She's not gonna be able to hang on at all. She's gonna go flying." It was hilarious. The stunt guys are some of the most savage-

Speaker 28:14 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 28:15 ... fucking psychotic, zero fear at all for their safety.

Speaker 28:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:20 Like, they get so hardened by it over time-

Speaker 28:22 Yeah

Joe Rogan 28:23 ... that they're just not normal people.

Speaker 28:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:25 And, uh, this guy, Perry, uh, I was like, "Dude, what, what, you're gonna make them ride a bull?" He's like, "Don't worry about it, Boo, these are stunt bulls." [laughing]

Speaker 28:33 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 28:33 That's what he said! I go, "Does that bull know he's a stunt bull?"

Speaker 28:37 They got their SAG card.

Joe Rogan 28:38 I bet he has no fucking idea.

Speaker 28:40 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 28:40 I bet he just thinks he's a bull. So they're in the cage before they do it, and the bull's fucking bucking around-

Speaker 28:45 Yeah

Joe Rogan 28:46 ... and he's just a fucking tank.

Speaker 28:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:49 And I'm just going, "Don't..." I told the people, I'm like, "Don't do it. Don't do it. Just quit, man. Just don't do it." I... It was, like, one of the only things where I was, I was like, "I wouldn't do it. I'm telling you right now, I would never do this."

Speaker 28:59 Were the bulls, were they the bulls that would... 'Cause certain bulls, you, they get upset if you ride them, but after you fall off, they don't try to hook you. Did these bulls try to hook them after they got up to the-

Joe Rogan 29:10 They get... They had handlers that steered the bull away from the people.

Speaker 29:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:14 And they did a good job with that.

Speaker 29:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:15 But, I mean, who fucking knows? They don't want you on them. They weigh 2,000 pounds. They're all muscle. Like, the thing was so powerful, like, you could feel it when it was in the cage, where it was just fucking moving around. I was like, "Don't do this!"

Speaker 29:31 And they're smart. Like, bulls are very smart. That's why, unfortunately, uh, you know, in Spanish bullfighting, they kill the bull, which I'm, I'm, I'm not on board with. But because they learn your movements, you can't make the same movement-

Joe Rogan 29:50 Right

Speaker 29:50 ... twice in a row with a bull.

Joe Rogan 29:51 You can't fake 'em.

Speaker 29:51 'Cause they're gonna go, "Oh, okay, I'm gonna be... You're gonna do that, and I'm gonna be right here waiting on you." [exhales] It's unfair, and you can't have anyone move behind the fence when it's on, because bulls can easily jump over the fence. They, a lot of them just don't know they can. So if you frighten them or provoke them, they're just gonna jump over the fence, and then they have, like, 35 people they can smoke. [exhales] Yeah, it's, it's, it's... When we work with bulls, the, the set is different. The set is different. [laughing] ... the, the guy, Gary Leffew, who g- supplies our bulls, he was world champion in 1970, and when we first started working with him, and it stuck with us the whole time, he's like, "When we have bulls on the set, I don't want anyone, any kind of negativity going around the set. It's already hard enough with the bull. If there's anyone negative or any negativity, that person's off the set." And-

Joe Rogan 30:55 Negativity, like in what way?

Speaker 30:56 Just if there's, uh, any, like, saying negative things, or they've had a fight with someone right before, any kind of negative vibes. No negative vibes.

Joe Rogan 31:06 The bull senses negative vibes?

Speaker 31:08 Just... Well, the whole, the whole, everyone on the set senses negative vibes, and everyone has to be completely present and positive for this. And-

Joe Rogan 31:20 Is this voodoo, or is this, like, real science?

Speaker 31:23 N- no, I, I think it, it makes total sense, especially when you're doing stunts. When you're doing a stunt that can forever alter you, n- I, I don't like any negativity either. Everyone c- and also, if you're doing something that can forever alter you, you have to want to be there and want to be doing it. You can't halfway go into it, because then you're really gonna get fucked up. So this is just some of the-

Joe Rogan 31:52 And this is knowledge you've acquired over time?

Speaker 31:55 Yeah. No, that's true. If you, like, half commit in something that can forev- you're gonna get... Yeah, it's bad. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 32:05 [laughing]

Speaker 32:05 It's gonna be bad anyway, but you, you need to want to be there.

Joe Rogan 32:11 Oh, w- what a bizarre life skill.

Speaker 32:16 Yeah. Yeah. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 32:17 You know what I mean? What a bizarre skill. Like, I know how to survive doing something you really shouldn't do, that could alter you forever. Stay positive.

Speaker 32:27 Well, that's, that... It doesn't, it's not a guarantee, [chuckles] uh, Joe, but it does, I think it does help.

Joe Rogan 32:34 We did a bunch of other stuff that was not bulls, like with cars and trucks and stuff, where I was like, "Ooh." Like, we had a close call once with this lady who was strapped to the front of a truck, and she was supposed to go through some sort of an obstacle course. But, like, they blew through some boxes, and the box got on the windshield of the other car, and the other car almost slammed into her legs.

Speaker 33:00 Oh.

Joe Rogan 33:01 Yeah, and she was screaming 'cause she thought it hit her, and it was like, we were like, "What the fuck are we doing?"

Speaker 33:07 Was that when you guys came back for the second round?

Joe Rogan 33:10 Yes. Yeah, that was the second round. Yeah, the second round was sketchy. You know, we had people, like, getting... They were attached to a tree, and they had to figure out which key to unlock them, while a bungee cord was attached to them and a helicopter. And so once they got the thing unlocked, they would fucking rocket off of this tree. [laughing]

Speaker 33:30 Up through the limbs.

Joe Rogan 33:31 No, no, no, there was a lucky- luckily, th- there wasn't that. There was n- no branches that could have got them.

Speaker 33:36 But, but that would've been funnier.

Joe Rogan 33:38 It would've been funnier, like, through the branches and shit.

Speaker 33:40 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 33:40 So they, they rocket over a fucking giant canyon. Like, we're on the top of this canyon-

Speaker 33:45 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 33:45 ... and they just went flying while they were being bungee jumped on the bottom of this fucking helicopter. It was terrifying.

Speaker 33:53 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 33:53 They were so high. If anything went wrong, they were dead as fuck.

Speaker 33:57 Oh.

Joe Rogan 33:57 100% dead.

Speaker 33:59 Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 34:00 Yeah.

Speaker 34:00 That, that's sketchy.

Joe Rogan 34:01 Oh, there was so much sketchy stuff, and then it ultimately got canceled 'cause they had to drink cum.

Speaker 34:06 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 34:08 Did you ever see that episode?

Speaker 34:09 Uh, no. No.

Joe Rogan 34:10 Yeah, that's what sunk us. So there was only two times, a-

Speaker 34:13 What year was... What, what kind of, what kind of-

Joe Rogan 34:16 Donkey. Donkey cum.

Speaker 34:18 Ah.

Joe Rogan 34:19 Yeah.

Speaker 34:19 That'll do it every time, Joe.

Joe Rogan 34:21 Yeah, and they got donkey cum 'cause it's the cheapest cum.

Speaker 34:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:25 [laughing]

Speaker 34:25 Yeah, boars, boars ejaculate 15 ounces at a time.

Joe Rogan 34:30 Whoa!

Speaker 34:30 So, uh-

Joe Rogan 34:32 A wild boar, like a pig?

Speaker 34:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:34 Really?

Speaker 34:34 15 ounces. Uh, so-

Joe Rogan 34:36 That's a lot.

Speaker 34:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:38 That's a fucking beer stein.

Speaker 34:39 Yeah. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 34:40 Yeah, so this is it. So these guy- that guy's drinking donkey cum, and his brother's drinking donkey piss.

Speaker 34:48 I, I'd, I'd opt for the piss. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 34:52 [laughing] And that guy chugged it. He chugged donkey cum. I'm getting... I'm starting to dry heave.

Speaker 34:56 That, oh, that's a lot. [laughing] That was a lot of cum. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:59 Yeah.

Speaker 34:59 A black and tan, kind of, with the piss and the semen wouldn't have been a terrible idea.

Joe Rogan 35:04 It was so nasty.

Speaker 35:04 What were the... Who were the girls there?

Joe Rogan 35:06 Well, they were all twins. It was three sets of twins, and, um, they had to play horseshoes. Like, [laughing] she's, her mascara, it's like-

Speaker 35:14 She had to drink the semen, too?

Joe Rogan 35:15 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 35:17 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 35:17 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 35:18 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 35:19 And the thing is, three sets of people, three twins, three groups of twins did it, and only one won the money.

Speaker 35:29 Oh.

Joe Rogan 35:29 So two people drank donkey cum, and two people drank donkey piss for nothing.

Speaker 35:35 You know what the worst part of that is? Semen burps later.

Joe Rogan 35:39 [inhaling] Yeah.

Speaker 35:41 Mm. Just the, the, just that-

Joe Rogan 35:42 It was interesting, like-

Speaker 35:43 ... bleachy smell that-

Joe Rogan 35:45 The ladies, like, w- between the two of them, were fighting over who drank the piss. They wanted to drink... They didn't want to drink the piss; they were happy to drink the cum.

Speaker 35:54 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 35:56 Which I guess tracks.

Speaker 35:58 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 35:59 You know, like, been there, done that. Not in that kind of volume, but-

Speaker 36:02 Oh, my

Joe Rogan 36:03 ... what's the worst that could happen?

Speaker 36:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:05 Whereas the guys were, like, really trying not to drink the cum, you know? I don't know what they did to decide, 'cause they had to decide, like, one of them was gonna drink cum, and one of them was gonna drink piss. So that was one of two times [chuckles] -- two times where I was hosting this show, where I said to the producers, "Don't do this."... don't do this.

Speaker 36:21 Oh!

Joe Rogan 36:21 I'm like, "You're gonna- this show's gonna get canceled." They're like, "No, we're fine. NBC approved it." [laughing] They did!

Speaker 36:27 Like they'll, they're the bellwethers of good taste. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 36:30 There was a fucking guy on set who was, like, the NBC standards guy, the standards and practices guy. And I'm like: "You're sh- you're okay with this? Like, this is okay?" And they're like, "Yeah, the network's fine with it."

Speaker 36:41 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 36:41 I'm like, "This is so fucking... You guys are too close to this." I'm like, "You guys are too close to this. You don't understand how the general public's gonna react."

Speaker 36:49 Oh!

Joe Rogan 36:49 And then I think what happened, I think it was TMZ, but someone leaked the, uh, footage online. Someone leaked, like, images of people drinking cum, like, "Fear Factor crosses the line," and then the outrage was palpable. Like, it was, like, some serious outrage. And then that show never aired in America, but it aired overseas. I think it aired in, like, maybe the Netherlands or something like that.

Speaker 37:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:15 Or w- which was actually-

Speaker 37:16 Killed in Germany

Joe Rogan 37:17 ... which is where Fear Factor actually came from. Fear Factor was actually a show in the Never- in the Netherlands called Now or Neverland.

Speaker 37:25 Ah.

Joe Rogan 37:25 And then they brought it over to America, when they... Endemol purchased it, and then they changed it to... I think they, then, then they came up with the name Fear Factor after that. That was, like, when I was already on board.

Speaker 37:38 Yeah. Wow, I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 37:39 Yeah.

Speaker 37:40 I'm... Well, there was no- there was virtually no blowback after, uh, Pontius drank horse cum in Jackass Number Two. [laughing] Never heard about it.

Joe Rogan 37:50 Well, it wasn't on TV, at least.

Speaker 37:52 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 37:52 There's something about television, you know?

Speaker 37:54 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:54 Censored, uh, you know, federal communications approved-

Speaker 38:00 Yeah, no, I get it

Joe Rogan 38:00 ... Fear Factor, and they drank cum. So that got us canceled. That was it. That was, like, 2000, I guess, 11 or something like that, 12.

Speaker 38:09 How many seasons did you do?

Joe Rogan 38:11 Um, I think we did six or seven initially, and then we did another... Yeah, and then we did another six episodes, one of them that never aired.

Speaker 38:25 Did you help write creative?

Joe Rogan 38:27 No, [chuckles] no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 38:28 You didn't want any part of that?

Joe Rogan 38:29 I had zero... No, what I would do is I'd show up at work, I'd get in my trailer, I'd take an edible, and then I would go to the set.

Speaker 38:36 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 38:36 And I'd be like, "What do we got?" The first... I did the first two ep- the first four episodes, I did sober. Then I was like, "This is so boring."

Speaker 38:42 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 38:42 "I need, I need to get high." [laughing]

Speaker 38:45 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 38:45 And so I would take pot lollipops and pot gummies and just get fucking lit and then enjoy it, 'cause then it was like, like, "This is an adventure."

Speaker 38:54 What a great gig!

Joe Rogan 38:55 "This is crazy." Oh, it was a fun gig.

Speaker 38:56 Yeah, I had a b- I had so much fun, too-

Joe Rogan 38:58 It was a lot of fun

Speaker 38:58 ... 'cause all I do is, like, you, all I did was talk.

Joe Rogan 39:01 Yeah.

Speaker 39:01 You know?

Joe Rogan 39:02 Oh, it's easy. I ate a lot of shit. I ate a lot of things to try to encourage people, you know? Like, 'cause after a while-

Speaker 39:08 Well, you-

Joe Rogan 39:08 ... I got so numb

Speaker 39:09 ... oh, you, you would do the-

Joe Rogan 39:10 Yeah

Speaker 39:10 ... the things with them?

Joe Rogan 39:11 I'd be like: "You can do it. Look, I'll do it. I'll do it for you." Like-

Speaker 39:13 Yeah

Joe Rogan 39:13 ... and some of the times when I did it to just try to help people, I'm like, "Look, I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna do it, and then you're gonna do it."

Speaker 39:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:19 And then we didn't even air me doing it-

Speaker 39:22 Yeah

Joe Rogan 39:22 ... because I was like... 'Cause they didn't want it to make it seem like it was so... 'Cause I could do it easily.

Speaker 39:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:26 'Cause I was so used to disgusting stuff.

Speaker 39:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:28 I could just take a roach and just throw it down-

Speaker 39:30 Yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 39:30 ... or take a worm and throw it down. I'm like, "Just do it. It's not that hard. It's all in your fucking head." 'Cause I was trying to, like-

Speaker 39:36 You know, I get it, like-

Joe Rogan 39:37 ... coach people through it.

Speaker 39:39 I, when I took the job, I'm like, "I... This, I'm just gonna, like, give people hell, you know, the whole time, you know, and make their fears worse."

Joe Rogan 39:49 [chuckles]

Speaker 39:49 But then I get to set, and I... It, there's a human in front of you, and I, I'm like, "I, I don't know. These are regular people, and they really have fear, so I'm gonna try..." I ended up like you, trying to help them-

Joe Rogan 40:03 Yeah

Speaker 40:03 ... do it. But I was, I never wanted to, uh, like, do what they were doing for the fact that I never wanted that footage to be seen, like I'm trying to... You know? Like, you were just-

Joe Rogan 40:18 Right

Speaker 40:19 ... like, you had confidence that they wouldn't show that, and I'm like, "Ah."

Joe Rogan 40:22 Well, they showed a few things. They showed me eating, like, spiders. They showed me eating a roach, but I ate a lot of stuff that they never saw.

Speaker 40:29 Right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:30 Or I did some things that they n- because I just wanted these people to do it.

Speaker 40:33 You know, I get it, like-

Joe Rogan 40:34 I'm like, "You can do it

Speaker 40:34 ... it's good.

Joe Rogan 40:35 It's in your head." I'm like, "You just gotta decide, like, your mind has to decide, 'I'm just going to do this,' or just do it. Just go ahead and do it. Don't think about, 'Oh, my God, I can't believe I'm doing it.' Just fucking do it. Chew, swallow. Chew, swallow." I would just talk them through it.

Speaker 40:48 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:49 And I became, like, a, a fucking motivational coach or something like that. It was weird.

Speaker 40:54 Yeah, that's real because after... There was w- on the first... There was one girl that quit the... She, she's like, "I'm not continuing this bit, this stunt." And-

Joe Rogan 41:07 What was it? Can you say?

Speaker 41:08 Uh, it was something with snakes, right? And it was a big fear, and after that, I, I got the cast together, and I'm like, "It- at least always try to do what we're doing. Don't, don't let it, the fear stop you, right? Just always try." And after that, like, everyone, even if they were horrified, they made an effort, and I felt good about that, and I think they did, too.

Joe Rogan 41:35 Oh, that's cool.

Speaker 41:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:36 Yeah. I mean, for some peop- but it's sometimes it's good that someone quits, so you realize, like, this is real. Like, some people re- like, especially snakes. Snakes, to m- uh, there's something, uh, about ophidiophobia that I think is primal. I think it's in your DNA. I think either your ancestors were either bitten by a snake and barely survived, or someone saw someone die from a snake-

Speaker 42:03 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 42:03 ... and that, that information is encoded in your DNA. Because the, the fear that people have of snakes is fucking wild.

Speaker 42:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:12 Like, when they have legitimate ophidiophobia, it is a fucking crazy fear to watch.

Speaker 42:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:19 It's, it's, it's like their whole body locks up. They start shaking. Like, it's not a normal fear. It's like an ancient caveman fear that's locked into their DNA. Like, someone-... thousands of years ago survived something like this, and that's the only reason why you're here, and every fiber of your being wants to fucking-

Speaker 42:40 Yeah

Joe Rogan 42:40 -run away from snakes. And-

Speaker 42:42 It's wonderful.

Joe Rogan 42:43 It has to be in the DNA.

Speaker 42:44 When someone has that, it's like, bam! Terrified of snakes.

Joe Rogan 42:49 Oh, really?

Speaker 42:49 Terrified. And of course, we use that to our advantage. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 42:55 Of course, yeah. Well, we would make people fill out a questionnaire when they would sign up for Fear Factor, like, "What are your fears?"

Speaker 43:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:02 Heights, snakes, spiders. Well, you're getting heights-

Speaker 43:05 Yeah

Joe Rogan 43:05 ... snakes, and spiders. [chuckles]

Speaker 43:05 I would write tequila, whiskey, uh- [laughing]

Joe Rogan 43:08 Blowjobs. [laughing]

Speaker 43:10 Yeah. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 43:10 I hate back massages.

Speaker 43:12 Yeah. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 43:13 Yeah, it was, uh, it was fascinating because, like, you know, I had a background in martial arts and, and teaching, and one of the things that I did when I was younger was I took a lot of people to tournaments, and I coached a lot of people in-

Speaker 43:27 Yeah

Joe Rogan 43:27 ... taekwondo tournaments, and they'd be fucking terrified.

Speaker 43:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:30 And I would- I learned how to lock in with them and how to get them into a certain mindset, you know, as a coach.

Speaker 43:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:37 And I'd be like: Look, you're gonna get past this, and this is gonna be, like, one of the highlights of your life because you're absolutely terrified, and this fear on the other side will, w- it, it will be a completely different feeling. You'll have a feeling of accomplishment. You'll have a feeling of an understanding, of knowing that you can overcome very terrifying situations, and you can triumph, and you can do this. Like, you have skills. You just have to be able to go out there and perform, and you can do it. And I'd get in their head.

Speaker 44:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:06 And I carried that over to Fear Factor sometimes because there was people that just needed help. Like, they didn't... They had never experienced anything that really freaked them out before. They'd never experienced the kind of pressure of not just a competition, but a competition where they're doing something kind of dangerous.

Speaker 44:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:22 And something that, that really fucking freaked them out. They have to hold their wa- their breath underwater for, like, two minutes while they swim through a fucking thing.

Speaker 44:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:28 And we have rescue divers under there to rescue them, and there's panic. And it was like, that was one thing that was really satisfying, was being able to, like, take a person who was ready to fucking quit, and then they went on and won the whole thing.

Speaker 44:42 Yeah. Yeah, that's, that does make you feel good, to push someone-

Joe Rogan 44:46 Yeah

Speaker 44:47 ... to the other side, and the survivor's euphoria waiting for you.

Joe Rogan 44:51 Yeah.

Speaker 44:51 Well, uh, that I, I heard that... I r- read about that term.

Joe Rogan 44:57 Survivor's euphoria?

Speaker 44:58 And I, and I realized I'd experienced it a few times.

Joe Rogan 45:01 Multiple times. [chuckles]

Speaker 45:02 Yeah, yeah. Uh, [sniffs] uh, there's a... You ever heard of Colonel John Paul Stapp?

Joe Rogan 45:07 No.

Speaker 45:08 He was a doctor, a biophysicist, a flight surgeon, and he worked with, uh, Chuck Yeager and all that, uh, out at, uh, uh, Edwards... It was... It's now Edwards Air Force Base, and they were conducting experiments on, uh, what happens to a pilot when they eject at high altitude. And Colonel John Paul Stapp, 'cause th- these experiments were gnarly. They were on deceleration. They built this huge sled out in, uh, the desert, and he would strap himself in because the, the thinking at the time was, if you're gonna do something, a very dangerous, uh, experiment, a lot of times people back then would put themselves at the center 'cause they didn't wanna... Of course, they had other people doing it, and he did it most, though. So they would go hundreds of miles per hour, yes.

Joe Rogan 46:12 Whoa!

Speaker 46:13 Hundreds of miles per hour and stop within, uh, uh, eight feet.

Joe Rogan 46:18 Geez.

Speaker 46:18 And at the time, I think they thought you could only experience, uh, maybe 18 Gs of deceleration. He, at one time, experienced 49 Gs of deceleration. I think it's the most ever that any human is... And he went blind for a little bit, and he knew that was going to happen because he'd had that happen before in these experiments. And the night before, the one where he got 49 Gs, experienced 49 Gs, he went around his house with his eyes closed, uh, and just trying to do things like cook, and if, if he did go blind forever.

Joe Rogan 46:58 Geez.

Speaker 46:59 He's one of the most... He w- he, at one time, he was known as the fastest man alive. On that sled, he went faster than anyone at the time. He- and he's the reason we have seatbelts in cars. He's one of the most brilliant men of the 20th century. He was on the cover of Time magazine. No one knows who he is today.

Joe Rogan 47:18 Wow!

Speaker 47:19 Um, but he talked about survivor's euphoria, uh, and that's where I, I learned about it.

Joe Rogan 47:24 What did he say about it?

Speaker 47:26 Just the, just the endorphins that get released after going through something like that, and that you did survive, and it's just... It, it just fills you up.

Joe Rogan 47:39 And so he knew he was gonna go blind, and he did it anyway?

Speaker 47:42 He knew that there was a high probability of going blind.

Joe Rogan 47:46 And a possibility of being blind forever.

Speaker 47:48 Yes, and he was blind for, like, a couple days before it s- he started getting, sensing light again.

Joe Rogan 47:57 Phew!

Speaker 47:58 Yeah. He's, he's an amazing, amazing person.

Joe Rogan 48:03 I did a flight with the Blue Angels once.

Speaker 48:06 How was that?

Joe Rogan 48:07 It was amazing. Um, first of all, you, you don't... You never think of, like, that being a physical thing, that those guys have to be physically fit.

Speaker 48:16 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:17 When you go to... When we went to the base, before you, you know, do the whole safety thing, they explain everything, what you're gonna have to do, you see, like, that these guys are all fucking jacked. They're all like superheroes.

Speaker 48:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:30 It's 'cause they have to-

Speaker 48:31 And they're not the bigget- they're, they're compact.

Joe Rogan 48:33 No, they're short like me.

Speaker 48:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:34 And they're all, like, thick.

Speaker 48:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:36 They're all, like, fucking jacked dudes. And they were like: "Well, first of all, you don't wanna be tall because it's all about-... how much time it takes for the blood to get from your heart to your brain.

Speaker 48:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:47 And the shorter distance it has to travel, the better off you are, and you have to be physically strong, 'cause you do it- have you ever done it? You ever done a flight in a fighter jet?

Speaker 48:56 Uh, no, but we did the vomit comet in Russia.

Joe Rogan 48:59 Oh, okay.

Speaker 49:00 But, uh, Steve-O went up in a MiG.

Joe Rogan 49:02 They do a thing called hooking. So what it is, is, like, you hold onto the joystick, or you ho- you, there's straps that strap your legs down as well, you know, like, you're really harnessed in. You hold onto your straps, and you go like this, [grunting] and you, what you're literally doing is forcing blood into your brain, because you feel consciousness closing like an elevator door.

Speaker 49:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:24 It's like you feel the pressure, like you're going black. You literally see it. You see the darkness on the sides-

Speaker 49:29 Yeah

Joe Rogan 49:30 ... go, [grunting] and you're just trying to keep the blood in your brain. We went seven and a half Gs, um, but the guy in front of me, while we're doing this... So you're taking this fucking hard, you're, like, flying through these canyons.

Speaker 49:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:43 Like, he was going for it. Like, he really took me on a ride. It wasn't a safe ride.

Speaker 49:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:47 It was wild. We were, like, a couple hundred feet off the ground-

Speaker 49:50 Yeah

Joe Rogan 49:50 ... maybe, and whipping through these canyons.

Speaker 49:52 Did you puke?

Joe Rogan 49:52 Taking these fucking hard turns, and I heard him going, [grunting]

Speaker 49:56 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 49:57 So I'm going, "Oh, fuck, he's blacking out, too?"

Speaker 50:00 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 50:00 I'm like, we're going hundreds of miles an hour, just, like, 100 feet off the ground, whipping through these canyons. This guy's about to fucking black out, too.

Speaker 50:09 Oh, that's not what you wanna hear.

Joe Rogan 50:10 It was terrifying, but also, like, super educational. Like, you know, you just see people flying around, you're like, "Oh, it's probably like driving a car." No, it's unbelievably physically demanding. And the Blue Angels, they don't use gravity suits, or at least they didn't when-

Speaker 50:26 No, no, what d- they don't use decompression suits?

Joe Rogan 50:29 No, no, it's just a regular flight suit.

Speaker 50:32 W- well, did they not go up to a certain... What altitude were they, were they performing?

Joe Rogan 50:35 Well, it's just a jet. It's a jet. It's not like you have to... Like, you're not in a spaceship, right? So the whole thing is just about being able to stay conscious, and the thing about the gravity suit is, I guess somehow or another, it aids your ability to absorb all those Gs. I'm not really educated about it, but I just do know that he said there's ways that you wear suits that make this easier, but they don't wear the suits.

Speaker 51:00 Yeah, I think if you go up to a certain altitude, you have to have the-

Joe Rogan 51:03 Right, but this wasn't an altitude thing.

Speaker 51:05 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 51:05 This was just a G-force thing.

Speaker 51:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:07 It was just the hard turns.

Speaker 51:09 [exhaling] That, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:09 It was like the, the wicked turns at hundreds of miles an hour, and also just thinking about the tolerances of the aircraft itself and the, the, the pressure that's on the hull.

Speaker 51:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:19 Because the f- the feeling of being in a jet going 100 miles an hour, hundreds of miles an hour, and then hitting a hard turn, it's just, your whole body just like, "Fuck!"

Speaker 51:32 Yeah, and you're just, and you're just along for the ride.

Joe Rogan 51:35 Yeah.

Speaker 51:35 Like, they-

Joe Rogan 51:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 51:36 I mean, the- they're so skilled-

Joe Rogan 51:38 Yeah

Speaker 51:38 ... to be able to overcome the forces.

Joe Rogan 51:41 He let me do some stuff, like, uh, I got to make the, the jet do a loop.

Speaker 51:45 Oh, wow!

Joe Rogan 51:46 I did that. I got to get it to l- to roll over, to get it to-

Speaker 51:49 Oh

Joe Rogan 51:49 ... go upside down and go back over. Yeah, he showed me how to do that.

Speaker 51:52 Wow, and you were in control of it or...?

Joe Rogan 51:54 Well, I mean, he's there, too-

Speaker 51:56 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 51:57 ... in case I do something really fucking stupid. I'm sure he has ultimate control, but I had a joystick, too.

Speaker 52:01 Do you [chuckles] --

Joe Rogan 52:01 So I was allowed to do some stuff.

Speaker 52:02 Do, do you think... Yeah, I mean, they could give you a joystick, and it not be connected to anything, too, and make you just feel good. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 52:11 They could, but it was connected.

Speaker 52:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:12 You could clearly tell while you're moving it.

Speaker 52:14 Right. Oh, man-

Joe Rogan 52:15 It's-

Speaker 52:15 ... that's, that's pretty scary.

Joe Rogan 52:16 It, it made you wanna get one of those things. Like, how dope would it be to have one of those?

Speaker 52:20 G- get one of those jets?

Joe Rogan 52:21 Yeah.

Speaker 52:21 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 52:22 'Cause you could get one of those. If you're, like, a super rich guy-

Speaker 52:26 Well, yeah, you can get one, but you gotta, you know.

Joe Rogan 52:28 I mean, w- how much is a, you... Uh, 'cause we, we looked this up one day. You could buy, like, decommissioned fighter jets. You know, they don't have any machine guns on them-

Speaker 52:36 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 52:36 ... or anything crazy, but you can get a decommissioned fighter jet. If you're, like, some fucking psychotic billionaire-

Speaker 52:42 Yeah

Joe Rogan 52:42 ... and you got your own landing strip, you, you could get a fucking fighter jet.

Speaker 52:46 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:47 Which is gnarly.

Speaker 52:48 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you go to Russia-

Joe Rogan 52:50 Yeah, look

Speaker 52:50 ... you could probably get one fully loaded.

Joe Rogan 52:52 Look at this, 1,500 bucks, dog.

Speaker 52:53 1,500? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 52:55 No, no, no, no, 1.5 million. [laughing] It's close. A million. It's a million to buy one, whatever. [laughing]

Speaker 53:01 [laughing] Well, shit!

Joe Rogan 53:03 Look at this one, 395 grand, you get one. What's, like, a really dope one? What's like- 5.4 million. Go, l- make it price, uh, okay, five four. Right. What is that one? Uh, Skyhawk. For 5 million bucks, what do you get? A 1992 McDonald Douglas Skyhawk. Ooh.

Speaker 53:22 I mean, for that price, you should get a couple of rockets with it. Come on.

Joe Rogan 53:25 Well, I bet you could go to Russia, and they'll give you some rockets.

Speaker 53:27 Oh, man, we... Yeah, we, we shot in Russia, and you can literally do anything you want in Russia. [chuckles] They let me get on a military base, base and shoot, uh, missiles out of a cannon.

Joe Rogan 53:38 [laughing]

Speaker 53:40 They took Steve-O up in a MiG, uh-

Joe Rogan 53:43 This was back when we were friendly with Russia.

Speaker 53:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:46 This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. So here we are. It's the new year, which means it's about time to hit reset. Just because it's January, doesn't mean you need to disappear into a cold plunge and never drink again. Just rotate in some Athletic non-alcoholic beer. You get the taste, the perfect meal pairing, and the night out, but you wake up without the hangover. With over 185 taste awards, they brew all kinds of styles, IPAs, goldens, hazies, you name it. Athletic is proud-brewed in America and sold at over 75,000 grocery or liquor stores, bars, and restaurants across the country. You can also purchase a variety of limited styles exclusively on their website. Go to athleticbrewing.com/rogan to find stores near you or get brews shipped right to your door. Use code ROGAN to get 15% off your first online order, near beer, terms and conditions, and certain limitations apply. Athletic Brewing Company, fit for all times.

Speaker 54:49 Yeah, it's like 2000-... five.

Joe Rogan 54:53 Wow!

Speaker 54:53 And it was, it was wild. Um, Russia, we had so much fun. [sniffs]

Joe Rogan 55:00 Do you ever look back on, on, like, how surreal, like, your life has been and th- all these experiences?

Speaker 55:08 I feel it a lot, uh, like, when, like, for example, in Russia, because growing up, like, you would do those disaster drills in school in case Ro- Russia dropped the bomb, and, you know-

Joe Rogan 55:20 Oh, yeah, I remember those

Speaker 55:21 ... run out behind your locker and put your head between your legs. Like that would help if a bomb was dropped. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 55:26 Yeah.

Speaker 55:27 But they were such the bad guy, and then it was 2005, and I'm... Now I'm on a- in- been in movies, and I'm over there, and that, that felt very surreal to be in Russia and think about what's happened to my life. Uh, there are moments like that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:46 Well, it was weird, too, because you got out of it and became a movie star, but then started do- you were doing it again. Like, you were right back in.

Speaker 55:56 And it kinda started in Russia, actually. Uh, we were doing, uh, a bit... We'd done a few things over in Russia, and we were doing something with the Russian Special Forces where we were on a, a, like, a- we're gonna run through this, uh, what do you call it, uh, when you're, there's dogs and-

Joe Rogan 56:21 Obstacle course?

Speaker 56:21 Yeah, uh, we're on an obstacle course, and they had all these things set up. I'm like, "All right, well," I was like, "Jeff, why don't you have their attack dog attack me, and then, uh, shoot me with the rubber bullets, and then have the guy kick me in the face when I get to the end?"

Joe Rogan 56:42 [chuckles]

Speaker 56:42 And, uh, and we, we shot that, and the dog attacked me, and the, the, the Russian guy, the, the Special Forces guy said, "I'm not gonna kick you in the face," but he did-

Joe Rogan 56:54 What a nice guy

Speaker 56:55 ... deliver a nice blow to my so- solar plexus. I had to beg him to do it three times to, like, "No, you gotta, like, do it as hard as you can." But Jeff pulled me aside and goes, "Look, if you..." This was just for Wild, the TV show, Wildboyz. I would travel with him sometimes. He goes, "If you're gonna go this hard for basic cable, why don't-

Joe Rogan 57:14 [laughing]

Speaker 57:15 ... why don't we do another movie?" [chuckles] And I was like, "All right." [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 57:20 How many movies have you guys done?

Speaker 57:21 Um, we've done four, uh, and we just announced we're going to do... I just announced we're gonna do another, uh, it's gonna be out June 26th.

Joe Rogan 57:33 Have you filmed it already?

Speaker 57:35 No, we're gonna f- we're about to film it in February.

Joe Rogan 57:39 Oh, dude.

Speaker 57:39 Late February. So start then, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:43 Do you feel apprehension? Do you feel like-

Speaker 57:46 No.

Joe Rogan 57:47 No?

Speaker 57:47 No, I-

Joe Rogan 57:49 But you can't get a concussion.

Speaker 57:52 No, I can't get any concussions, but, I mean, I don't care if, like, I break my arm or leg. No one cares about that. It's just, I just can't have another-

Joe Rogan 57:58 You don't care about breaking your arm or your leg?

Speaker 58:00 No.

Joe Rogan 58:00 Really?

Speaker 58:01 No.

Joe Rogan 58:01 Really?

Speaker 58:02 No.

Joe Rogan 58:03 So this is something... This is, like, a feeling that you've developed this, "I don't care." You didn't have that when you first started doing it.

Speaker 58:12 Uh, I guess there was-

Joe Rogan 58:12 Right, if you went back to the first day

Speaker 58:13 ... there was probably some, some self-worth issues when I began.

Joe Rogan 58:17 [laughing]

Speaker 58:19 It didn't come from a healthy place, Joe.

Joe Rogan 58:21 Well, it, but it's not just that. It's like you don't have a fear of being, like, radically injured? Because you blow your knee out or you blow your leg out, you're limping for the rest of your life.

Speaker 58:32 I don't, it doesn't, that doesn't bother me.

Joe Rogan 58:34 Really?

Speaker 58:34 No.

Joe Rogan 58:35 God, I'm so averse to that shit.

Speaker 58:36 It's, it's, I, I, uh, it's like the, uh, producer side of me overrides the performer side. It's like, "Hey, but we're gonna get footage," and it's, it's about as [chuckles] simple as that.

Joe Rogan 58:49 So you'll still do dangerous shit. You just don't want to do anything dangerous-

Speaker 58:54 I just can't get any concussions

Joe Rogan 58:55 ... where you get hit in the head.

Speaker 58:55 I don't care about... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:57 But how, if you're gonna get, be in a violent situation where you could break an arm or a leg, you easily could get a concussion as well.

Speaker 59:04 Well, you gotta, well, you gotta assess, Joe. [chuckles] I don't know.

Joe Rogan 59:08 Risk assessment?

Speaker 59:09 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 59:10 How the... What the fuck does your waivers look like?

Speaker 59:13 Um, yeah, I, I, I don't know. It was... You know, on the first movie, they, we, the insurance companies insured it per bit. They didn't insure the whole movie. They just insured it per bit.

Joe Rogan 59:27 Yeah, that's how they did it with Fear Factor as well.

Speaker 59:29 So some bits, costs were, the insurance was gonna be more than the whole first movie. So, wow, can't do those. Uh, but after that, we, you know, we s- find a shady insurance company, and they take care of us.

Joe Rogan 59:43 Once you started acting, though, and doing big movies, d- did, wasn't there any part of you was like, "Okay, I'm done with this?"

Speaker 59:50 Mm, no, it's, it-

Joe Rogan 59:51 [laughing]

Speaker 59:53 ... it was, it's so fun. It's something that, uh, I created with my friends.

Joe Rogan 59:58 Right.

Speaker 59:58 Right?

Joe Rogan 59:59 Right, right, right.

Speaker 1:00:00 And then there's probably, my wires got crossed somehow, and then I, I learned to like it. I looked... I would love it, you know? Uh, I guess it's like a comedian, uh, learning to love bombing, right?

Joe Rogan 1:00:20 No one learns to love bombing.

Speaker 1:00:23 I, uh... Really, I've talked to a coup- couple comedians, and they're like, "If, you gotta learn to, like, love it, and b- basically not fear it."

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 Yeah.

Speaker 1:00:32 And, and I kinda did that with stunts, I guess. I, like, learned to... I just, I just liked it.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 Wow.

Speaker 1:00:45 Um-

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 You ever talk to a shrink about that?

Speaker 1:00:48 Well, while I was doing... I have talked... I, no, I have a therapist, and I'm like, "Okay, we can talk about all, everything in my life, but not the part of me that does stunts."

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 ... Really?

Speaker 1:01:01 Yeah, because-

Joe Rogan 1:01:02 'Cause you don't wanna fix that, right?

Speaker 1:01:02 I didn't wanna unwind that, even though it, it, it went sideways quite a few times.

Joe Rogan 1:01:09 That's a wild statement: "I didn't wanna unwind that."

Speaker 1:01:13 Yeah. So I've, I've looked into it a little now that I can't get any more concussions, but, uh [laughing] Don't crush my career!

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 What is... Yeah, right, what a crazy job for the therapist.

Speaker 1:01:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:26 Like, the one area where you really probably should address. [laughing] You know what I mean?

Speaker 1:01:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 You have this, like, overall, "What is Johnny Knoxville? What's going on in his head?"

Speaker 1:01:37 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 And there's this one door, "Yeah, you can't go in that room."

Speaker 1:01:40 Yeah, we can't, can't-

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 Yeah.

Speaker 1:01:41 The biggest problem we can't address, um-

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 Yeah. It's kind of a crazy thing.

Speaker 1:01:48 Yeah. Well, again, I should've went to college.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 Do you get, uh, annoyed having to answer all these questions all the time about that kind of shit? Because after a while, I would imagine, like, that is the most common thing that people would wanna talk to you about. Like, "How many times you been hurt? What happened? What is it like?"

Speaker 1:02:08 No, I don't. I, I mean, I, I, uh... Again, I get the joke, what I would be doing if I wasn't doing this, so-

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 Yeah

Speaker 1:02:17 ... I'm grateful, and so if somebody wants to talk about it, let's talk.

Joe Rogan 1:02:21 Well, you're obviously a smart guy. I don't buy that. You could do anything.

Speaker 1:02:26 Well, when I started down this road, this was my best guess, so, uh, you know, it just became something I'm doing. Uh, and yeah, I guess I did want to write, but I, I, I, I incorporate that into the movies.

Joe Rogan 1:02:47 Well, it's a very strange life, Johnny.

Speaker 1:02:50 Yeah, I guess, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 For sure.

Speaker 1:02:53 Um, yeah, I, I kind of, uh, created the environment that I grew up in with my father. He, uh, owned a tire company, and he had all these crazy characters working for him, like, people like, uh, Big George, Ass-Kicking Robert, this guy SD's, named Super Dick.

Joe Rogan 1:03:22 [laughing]

Speaker 1:03:23 One guy named WW, Woodrow Wilson, Boxcar Johnson Jr., he was the tire groover who was always getting arrested for one thing or another. Um, and he was always pranking these people at work, his people that worked for him. Uh, he would stage gunfights at Christmas parties.

Joe Rogan 1:03:43 What?

Speaker 1:03:44 One- he did this twice. He... One year at the Christmas party, he gave a couple of the guys, his employees, guns and said, "Okay, I want you guys to get in an argument, and I want it to culminate with you pulling out a gun and firing, and you pulling out your gun," they were blank guns. And everyone just... It was in a pretty gnarly part of town, too, but everyone just ran out into the streets. Dad was ecstatic.

Joe Rogan 1:04:09 [laughing]

Speaker 1:04:09 So the next year, so the next year, there are two new employees, and he's like, "Hey, hey, Merle, come over here. You guys, you're gonna get in a fight, and you're gonna start yelling, and you're gonna pull out guns," and it's the same gag. So they did it, and they were very excited, and they pulled out the guns and started firing, but Dad had given everyone else in the party blank guns, so they started firing back at those dudes. Those dudes take off running [chuckles] down the street. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, just kind of imitating what my father did, I guess.

Joe Rogan 1:04:39 Does your father feel any responsibility?

Speaker 1:04:42 Dad loved Jackass, but hated the parts where I would do stunts. My whole family did.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 Of course.

Speaker 1:04:50 Um, and but they... You know, I just doing what I saw growing up. He would send letters to his friends from the VD clinic, rubber-stamped on the envelope-

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 [laughing]

Speaker 1:05:04 ... saying, "You have to list your last 10 partners, 'cause you've contracted a venereal disease. Signed, Dr. Harlan C. Tidmore." But people would get these letters, or worse, the guy's wife would get the letter, and the thing about something like that, people become angry and emotional, and then they believe everything. That's the great thing about pranks. If you can get someone so wound up that they're really emotional, they'll believe anything. And so these guy would come home from work, and then the mother, like, his wife would be there, the, the wife's mother would be there. He had a gun pulled on him over that once.

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 A real gun?

Speaker 1:05:43 Oh, yeah, real guns. Um, [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 Your dad sounds like a fucking maniac.

Speaker 1:05:49 He would, he would, uh, send letters out from the IRS telling people they're gonna be audited. [chuckles] He got visited by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation over that.

Joe Rogan 1:06:02 [laughing]

Speaker 1:06:02 He, he didn't do that anymore.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 [laughing] Well, that makes more sense now. Okay, so you grew up in a very unusual environment.

Speaker 1:06:12 Yeah, very unusual.

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 How did your dad get started doing shit like that? Was it just-

Speaker 1:06:18 I don't know. He just had that personality. He was such a shit starter. He, he should've been in show business, is what should've been, but he, he was from Knoxville.

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 Did you ever think about using him?

Speaker 1:06:30 Uh, he was in one episode. Uh, it... When we were doing the TV show, my mom and him were in the episode, but he, he wrote a couple of bits for Jack- he was like, "Hey, I want you to do this!"

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 [laughing]

Speaker 1:06:45 And we filmed a couple. So he loved that. So, um, yeah, he, uh... I don't know. He didn't know how to go about being in show business. Neither did I, either.

Joe Rogan 1:06:58 But it seems like he was doing his own, almost like a local play.

Speaker 1:07:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:01 He was doing his own version of it for himself.

Speaker 1:07:03 Yeah. Oh, for sure, just to entertain himself. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:07:08 ... [laughs] I guess you could do that when you're the boss.

Speaker 1:07:10 Yeah, he, uh, like, I- in high school-

Joe Rogan 1:07:13 What a crazy guy to work for.

Speaker 1:07:14 I'd be laying on the couch. I took a nap. You know, I was, like, a junior, senior or whatever, and I felt something go v- through my lips, and he had went and got a hot dog and microwaved it till it was lukewarm, and dragged the hot dog through my lips. And then when I woke up, he acted like he was zipping his pants. [laughing] He thought... And it just, him laughing at his own joke-

Joe Rogan 1:07:44 [laughing]

Speaker 1:07:44 ... just made everything- He thought it was the funniest thing, and then, like, you're on board, too.

Joe Rogan 1:07:49 Ugh!

Speaker 1:07:49 Yeah. Ah, he was a character.

Joe Rogan 1:07:52 Well, that makes more sense now.

Speaker 1:07:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 'Cause I'm like, how does a normal guy dive into something like Jackass?

Speaker 1:07:58 He's, he-

Joe Rogan 1:07:59 That makes more sense now.

Speaker 1:08:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 You were sort of indoctrinated at an early age.

Speaker 1:08:04 Very early. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:08:05 Some of the shit that made me the most uncomfortable was the Wild Boy stuff. Like, uh, Steve-O showed me a video of him when he climbed a tree, and the lions came up the tree and took his hat.

Speaker 1:08:16 [laughs] Which is, which is disrespectful, if you think about it.

Joe Rogan 1:08:21 Well-

Speaker 1:08:21 Just take his hat?

Joe Rogan 1:08:22 Fortunate, because if they didn't have the hat, they might have just grabbed his whole head and just dragged him off.

Speaker 1:08:27 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 You know? I mean, those were actual lions.

Speaker 1:08:31 Yeah, no, they, you-

Joe Rogan 1:08:32 They weren't pet lions.

Speaker 1:08:33 You're entering into a situation that's unpredictable and kinda hoping for the best, is what you're doing.

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 And they didn't have any backup plan. I mean, when you're in a tree, and the lions go up the tree to get you, there's nothing really anybody could do to help you.

Speaker 1:08:52 Y-

Joe Rogan 1:08:52 By the time... If it gets ahold of you, you're dead. Like, that-

Speaker 1:08:55 There's nothing anyone... Like, here's an example, uh, of the backup plans we have. We're filming a... Steve-O's filming a bit with an alligator on Jackass, and our safety guy, Manny Puig, who dives in swamps at night with a miner's light to pull alligators up to the surface, and crocodiles. He's Tarzan. He's Tarzan. He was our safety guy.

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 [laughs]

Speaker 1:09:17 And it's like, "Okay, if this goes south, what, what do we do?" Uh, Manny, he goes, "Okay, we, we're gonna be doing this stunt with the alligator, and if the alligator grabs ahold of Steve-O and bites him, hopefully he will let go." [chuckles] And that was it. That was the whole plan.

Joe Rogan 1:09:34 There's no, like, poke him in the eyes? There's no, like-

Speaker 1:09:36 If the gator doesn't wanna let go, he's not gonna let go. [inhales] So...

Joe Rogan 1:09:42 Ugh. Fuck, dude.

Speaker 1:09:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:47 Yeah. The wild animals ones are the nutty... One, one of the ones where you guys are playing keep away with hyenas. [clapping] [laughing] Why are you laughing?

Speaker 1:09:55 They have the strong, like-

Joe Rogan 1:09:57 Yes

Speaker 1:09:57 ... one of the strongest jaw- the bite in the animal kingdom, maybe, like, third or fourth.

Joe Rogan 1:10:01 Yeah.

Speaker 1:10:02 Uh, there's... What are you gonna do? There's nothing you can do. Just hope for the best.

Joe Rogan 1:10:06 Yeah, and they have instincts. Like, if you twist your ankle-

Speaker 1:10:09 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:10:09 ... and they see you limping.

Speaker 1:10:10 Oh, yeah. I was doing a thing with, uh... We were in Argentina at this zoo, and we were like: "Hey, can I get in with the, the lions?" 'Cause there was a couple of keepers in there with it, and they're like, "Yeah, come on in." And, and they're like, "But whatever you do, don't trip and fall." I'm like, "Oh, shit." And so I, I got on a bike and started riding around the pen, and, and they're like, "If we give you a signal, y- you gotta..." And so I'm riding around the pen, and they're like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! Get down, get off, get off!" 'Cause the lion locked in on me and was about to attack me, and they herd me out of the pen. And afterwards, they're like, "Yeah, that was the first time anyone, asides from us, has been in the pen with them, and it's also mating season, so he's very aggressive." [laughs] I'm like, "Well, I wish you'd have told me that before I got in there." Well, I still would've went in there, but it was a real half-ass, uh, type of situation.

Joe Rogan 1:11:14 It's just like, you guys just have avoided death over, and over, and over again.

Speaker 1:11:19 Yeah, we've been lucky. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:11:24 But, like, that's a, a fucked up way to go through life.

Speaker 1:11:30 I guess, but-

Joe Rogan 1:11:31 [laughing] Look, you're-

Speaker 1:11:32 We had a ball

Joe Rogan 1:11:33 ... waxing philosophically. [laughs]

Speaker 1:11:35 [laughs] I don't know, man, it just... That's what we were doing.

Joe Rogan 1:11:39 Well, you had a ball.

Speaker 1:11:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:40 And for sure, you entertained the fuck out of millions and millions of people-

Speaker 1:11:44 Oh, thank you

Joe Rogan 1:11:45 ... who laughed their asses off and had a great fucking time watching. I get... I don't know why, but I get anxiety. I have a h- really hard time watching those things.

Speaker 1:11:55 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 1:11:55 I avoid them. Like, a lot of my friends are like, "We're going to see Jackass." I'm like, "I don't... I can't. I get freaked out. I don't want anybody to get hurt." It's weird.

Speaker 1:12:04 Yeah, I, I feel that way when, uh, like, one of the guys is doing something, like, pretty gnarly. I, I'm not ecstatic over watching something that could have a forever consequence. But with me, I, I don't know, I'm just like, "Let's go." I just, it's... I just... It's fun.

Joe Rogan 1:12:25 I know, but even after you have a family, and you have to, you know, you have kids that are watching their dad get fucked up?

Speaker 1:12:32 Well, that's the thing. I wouldn't... I didn't want my kids to see that, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:12:38 But they had to see it.

Speaker 1:12:39 At a certain age... Like, I didn't let my oldest daughter ... She could watch things with Wee Man or this or that, and but I didn't let her come to a movie until she was 14. I made her sit right next to me, and I said, "Madison, there are some times you'll have to close your eyes, sometimes cover your ears, and sometimes both." And I had the list of bits, and so it, it was... I censored it even then.

Joe Rogan 1:13:05 [exhales]

Speaker 1:13:06 But now it's the internet, it's a fucking free-for-all.

Joe Rogan 1:13:09 Yeah.

Speaker 1:13:10 So I guess my younger kids, I think, you know, they saw it a little-... earlier, I get, with, I only showed my son like a year ago, and my daughter six months ago.

Joe Rogan 1:13:21 What was his reaction?

Speaker 1:13:23 That he, he was on board. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:13:28 [laughing]

Speaker 1:13:28 My youngest daughter, I, she thought a lot of things were funny, but I don't know. I, I guess... I don't know what, how she felt, 'cause they only, my youngest only saw the first Jackass movie, which is pretty tame compared to the others, looking back. It's pretty innocent, even though Ryan Dunn's shoved a car up his ass to get an X-ray, a little toy car.

Joe Rogan 1:13:50 [laughing]

Speaker 1:13:52 Did you see that bit?

Joe Rogan 1:13:54 Yes, yes. [inhaling]

Speaker 1:13:56 Yeah, that one worked.

Joe Rogan 1:13:57 [laughing] Oh, do you worry that they're gonna follow in your footsteps?

Speaker 1:14:03 No.

Joe Rogan 1:14:04 No?

Speaker 1:14:04 Well, I have daughters, and they're just naturally more bright. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:14:10 [laughing] Yeah.

Speaker 1:14:10 You know? And, and my son, uh, like, he, he will joke about it, like, to his mom, that he's going to... But he's not going to. He's, he's bright, too. They have, they have options. I had... I didn't see a lot of options [chuckles] for myself.

Joe Rogan 1:14:29 It's weird that you said that, like, your daughters are bright, but, 'cause g- girls are d- definitely more risk-averse in, like, ridiculous situations like that, but-

Speaker 1:14:37 Think things through.

Joe Rogan 1:14:38 If it... I have a way harder time watching girls get hurt.

Speaker 1:14:43 Yeah. Yeah, I don't, I don't... We had a, a girl on the show. She, uh, like, like, broke, uh, her lower back. She w- she was doing a thing. Uh, we're doing a, just an, it was a pretty tame stunt compared to the ones we do. She was going down, uh, like, a, it was grass, but it was, like, a big hill on a, like, a r- some kind of rubber raft, and she had her lav mic at the lower, on her lower back.

Joe Rogan 1:15:20 Oh.

Speaker 1:15:21 And she came off, and that was the impact area. And for the longest... And it really was a bummer for everybody, you know? And, and I'm like, "I don't..." I didn't have, we didn't have a female cast member for a long time.

Joe Rogan 1:15:38 What was the extent of her, extent of her injury?

Speaker 1:15:40 I, I f- I... It was, it w- she was in the hospital for a little bit. She's fine now. I just saw her at the Jackass art show in November, and she's fine, but i- i- it sucked.

Joe Rogan 1:15:50 You had a Jackass art show?

Speaker 1:15:51 Yeah, yeah. For, 'cause it was our 25th anniversary last year, and I'm like, "Let's have an art show," and have... We have some cast members and crew members who are good artists, and I'm like, "Let's reach out to some big artists to see if they'll do it." And, and we did. It's the first time I ever curated an art show, and, uh, I, I, you know, I even, I was like, "Oh, fuck, I'm gonna reach out to Damien Hirst to see if he'll do it."

Joe Rogan 1:16:18 [laughing]

Speaker 1:16:20 And he ended up doing 10 pieces of art for it. It was... I was like, "Wow!" You know, I was really blown away by the good vibes and, uh, that we got from everyone over it.

Joe Rogan 1:16:37 Yeah, because you guys didn't just create a show. You, you, you know, you created, like, a chapter in modern pop culture history. [exhaling] Really, 'cause it became one of the most entertaining things ever, and one of the most ridiculous things ever.

Speaker 1:16:58 Wow. Yeah, it's... That's tough to... [exhaling] I never really walked down those roads. Uh... yeah, I don't, I, I don't know. I, I appreciate you saying that, though, but it's, it's, it's odd, you know, to entertain that thought of it, and especially if you see me and Tremaine sitting around writing ideas. You're like, "These two idiots- [laughing] "... did that?"

Joe Rogan 1:17:24 [laughing]

Speaker 1:17:25 Like, if you could see how we shoot, it's just you... It's amazing we get any footage at all, Joe. Um, Jeff Ross came out with us on Jackass Number Two. We were doing some bit, and s- some prank with me and Spike as old people, and me and Spike would [chuckles] we would, like, hit bus stops and, and anywhere where there was people, and we... But we would jump out and start doing pranks before the cameras even arrived, and it was driving Jeff insane. [laughing] He's like, "You guys shoot a movie like it's a pickup basketball game," and he just roasted us for about five minutes straight. It's so... And it was all accurate. It's like, it's amazing we get any footage.

Joe Rogan 1:18:09 Yeah, but, like, that's the spirit of it, is that you're doing it for fun, so you would be doing it if the cameras were on or not.

Speaker 1:18:17 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:18:17 You're doing it for yourselves-

Speaker 1:18:18 Yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:18:18 ... as much as you're doing it for the camera.

Speaker 1:18:19 Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:21 Yeah, which is why it's so good.

Speaker 1:18:24 The... I, I don't know how to make, like, other people laugh, right? If I'm writing a bit, I don't... That would freeze me. But I know how to make my friends laugh, and if they're laughing, I think, "Eh, we may have something." [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:18:39 [laughing]

Speaker 1:18:39 And that's, that's the only bellwether... Like, if you do something, like in the, in the, the magic trick, uh, with the bull, we did that twice, 'cause the first time, the first bull just came and, and didn't really knock me up in the air. He just got me on the ground and just started plowing me, stomping me, and I got up, and everyone was looking at me like, "Eh." I'm like, "All right." And I looked at Jeff, and he's like... I'm like, "All right, bring the other bull in."

Joe Rogan 1:19:11 [exhaling]

Speaker 1:19:12 That sucks.

Joe Rogan 1:19:13 [laughing]

Speaker 1:19:13 Take two with bulls always sucks.... [chuckles] you're hoping you get that first one.

Joe Rogan 1:19:20 Oh, God! The, the things with the animals are the ones I think that freak me out the most. So Wild Boys was the hardest one for me to watch. I dr- I really struggled with that show.

Speaker 1:19:29 Yeah, the one that I ... Jeff and I got in a half argument over, I was in Arkansas shooting the riot control test. I, me, Bam, and Dunn were standing in front of the riot control. Shoots like 10,000 hard rubber beads at you. We were shooting that, and they were in New Orleans about to go out and put a hook through Steve-O's jaw, chum up the waters, and cast him out to the water with sharks. I'm like: "What, what, uh, what are we doing, Jeff? What's, what, what, what's the best possible outcome here?"

Joe Rogan 1:20:08 Oh.

Speaker 1:20:08 He's like: "Oh, no, no, it's fine. It's fine." And I'm like: "You- we're gonna get his foot bit off?" "It's fine." And then it ended up being fine, [chuckles] but I was questioning the bit, and it's a great bit. The shark goes to bite his foot, and Steve-O kicks him at the last second and scares the shark away.

Joe Rogan 1:20:27 Oh!

Speaker 1:20:28 Yeah, it was just dumb luck.

Joe Rogan 1:20:30 And he had a hook through his mouth?

Speaker 1:20:32 Yeah, it was a-

Joe Rogan 1:20:33 I never saw that one.

Speaker 1:20:33 It was, it was like a big-

Joe Rogan 1:20:34 Find it, Jamie.

Speaker 1:20:35 Oh, you're not gonna ... Look at that. It-

Joe Rogan 1:20:37 Oh, my God!

Speaker 1:20:38 It took him, like, 15 minutes to get that hook through his mouth.

Joe Rogan 1:20:43 Ah!

Speaker 1:20:44 [chuckles] And the thing about it, they shot it the day before, and it didn't go good, so there's a hole on the other side of his jaw, too. You just can't see it.

Joe Rogan 1:20:52 Oh. This is so fucking stupid.

Speaker 1:20:58 Yeah, yeah. Thank you. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:21:03 Oh, my God, dude.

Speaker 1:21:04 Yes, he, he's, uh ... And oh, yeah, it was going for him, and then he kicks it and got him back in. It- that would've been bad. That'd been forever bad. Ol' Peg Leg Steve-O.

Joe Rogan 1:21:18 Oh. And he's, like, mentoring young guys that are doing it, too.

Speaker 1:21:22 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:21:23 Like, last time he was on your show, "Yeah, let me show you this one guy that I'm hanging out with."

Speaker 1:21:27 Yeah, dude. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:21:28 He's got this guy, he's running through barbed wire. I'm like: "What the fuck?"

Speaker 1:21:31 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:21:32 "Yeah, this guy's radical. He's covering himself with firecrackers." I'm like: "No!"

Speaker 1:21:37 Oh, I know. That's Zach. We get-

Joe Rogan 1:21:39 Yeah.

Speaker 1:21:39 We got him in the cast. He, uh ... Yeah, he's, he's pretty up for it.

Joe Rogan 1:21:44 How bad has he fucked up?

Speaker 1:21:46 Uh, yeah, I mean, have you seen ... He got a ... He was doing some trick on a skateboard, and he's a, he's a rather Rubenesque young fellow, and he just compound fractured his ankle. He ... I don't think you would like that one at all.

Joe Rogan 1:22:00 Popped through the skin, the whole deal?

Speaker 1:22:02 Uh, I'm not sure it popped through the skin, but it was, it was, uh, doing things that ankles shouldn't do.

Joe Rogan 1:22:12 What a weird life you've lived, dude.

Speaker 1:22:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:15 Very strange.

Speaker 1:22:17 It's been okay.

Joe Rogan 1:22:19 Yeah. [laughing] No, I mean, look, you're fine.

Speaker 1:22:21 Yeah, no, it's odd. I get it. I get it.

Joe Rogan 1:22:23 What are you laughing at, Jamie? I just, I saw the injury here. Let me see. Okay, here he goes, and oh!

Speaker 1:22:33 Ah. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:22:34 Oh. ...

Speaker 1:22:38 I guess that was more his, uh, shin, his, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:22:41 You can see his- Oh, that's his tibia and his fibula.

Speaker 1:22:43 Oh-

Joe Rogan 1:22:43 ... Instagram.

Speaker 1:22:43 Oh, yeah, tib, fib.

Joe Rogan 1:22:45 That's both of them. Yeah, that's the Conor McGregor right there. Yeah, look at-

Speaker 1:22:47 Oh

Joe Rogan 1:22:48 ... Jackass on Instagram. I'm not-

Speaker 1:22:49 The Joe Theismann.

Joe Rogan 1:22:50 Yeah, that's the ... Yeah, Anderson Silva. I've seen a few of those. Those are the most painful things I've ever seen in UFC fights.

Speaker 1:22:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:57 The things that really bother me are the, the leg breaks. When someone throws a kick, and the kick gets checked, and you see their leg, like, wrap around the shin.

Speaker 1:23:05 The Anderson Silva one-

Joe Rogan 1:23:06 Yep

Speaker 1:23:07 ... was very disturbing.

Joe Rogan 1:23:07 Oh, that was hard. It's crazy, like, it's only happened four times in the history of MMA, or in the history of the UFC, and two of them involved Chris Weidman. One, Chris Weidman did it to Anderson Silva, where Anderson Silva broke his leg, and then Chris Weidman broke his leg in the exact same way against Uriah Hall.

Speaker 1:23:27 Oh, I don't know if I saw the one against Uriah Hall-

Joe Rogan 1:23:31 Uriah Hall

Speaker 1:23:31 ... but I saw the first one.

Joe Rogan 1:23:32 Was so loud, 'cause what he did was-

Speaker 1:23:35 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:23:35 It was the first kick he threw. It was the first round of the fight. He threw a full power low kick, and Uriah checked it.

Speaker 1:23:44 Oh!

Joe Rogan 1:23:44 And you hear it just snap.

Speaker 1:23:47 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:23:47 Do the headphones work? Can we hear it? No, no, unfortunately. They're still fucked? Yeah. Good.

Speaker 1:23:51 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:23:51 Good. Good, you don't need to hear it, but it, here it is. Full power. Crack!

Speaker 1:23:55 Oh!

Joe Rogan 1:23:57 Yeah.

Speaker 1:23:57 Whoa, whoa. Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:23:59 And then he puts his foot down.

Speaker 1:24:00 That doesn't ... Oh, that doesn't look real.

Joe Rogan 1:24:03 Yeah, he was never the same again.

Speaker 1:24:04 I ... Yeah, you can't come back from that, right?

Joe Rogan 1:24:06 No, he ... I mean, guys-

Speaker 1:24:09 Oh!

Joe Rogan 1:24:09 ... guys, they don't really come back. They-

Speaker 1:24:12 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:24:12 You know, Conor McGregor hasn't fought again since ... I mean, he's throwing kicks with it. I've seen him spar with it. I don't ... I mean, I ... There's a one guy who was a, a heavyweight in the PFL that apparently came back and continued his career after he sh- see if you can find who that guy is. There's a heavyweight guy who was in the PFL that snapped his shin like that, and then came back and, and kept fighting. Weidman's had some fights since then, and he's actually even thrown that kick since then. Yeah, but y- I don't think you're the same.

Speaker 1:24:44 Yeah, that would mentally, uh, get to you.

Joe Rogan 1:24:47 Well, one leg now weighs more, right?

Speaker 1:24:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:24:50 Even if it's titanium, there's, there's more, there's screws, there's a bunch of shit in there, and then I've gotta think that it feels different. There's no way. And then there's the psychological thing, like, you've already been through ... I mean, I think Chris had to go through some insane amount of surgeries.... multiple surgeries to try to correct it-

Speaker 1:25:11 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:25:11 ... and to fix it, 'cause it didn't take right the first time. Because, you know, you're, you're hoping the bones grow back together. You got a rod and then screws, and then you're hoping the bone fuses all around it, and in some circumstances, they have to make a decision whether or not they go back in another time and take all the supporting stuff out, and just have your bone exist normally.

Speaker 1:25:33 Yeah, and you don't want- and then it's, like, the risk of infection-

Joe Rogan 1:25:36 Oh, yeah

Speaker 1:25:36 ... and things. It's, it's-

Joe Rogan 1:25:38 It's fucking gnarly.

Speaker 1:25:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:39 Yeah. That's... I have the hardest time. But I have a harder time watching women get fucked up than I do men. Uh, you know-

Speaker 1:25:47 Yeah, this-

Joe Rogan 1:25:47 Maybe it's the sexist in me or whatever it is, but-

Speaker 1:25:50 The UFC fights with women, they, they go for it.

Joe Rogan 1:25:54 Oh, they-

Speaker 1:25:54 I mean, the, the men go for it, but it just seems [chuckles] like the women are just extra aggressive.

Joe Rogan 1:25:58 Well, it just seems crazier when they're doing it, when they're beating the fuck out of each other for whatever reason. Like, there's a fight that happened at the UFC Sphere when, when they did it at the s- uh, the, the Sphere in Vegas. We had one event there, and there's this lady, uh, Irani Aldana, who's a beast, and she got a cut in her forehead that I can't believe the referee didn't stop the fight. Because it looked like someone hit her in the face with an ax.

Speaker 1:26:25 Wow!

Joe Rogan 1:26:25 Like, her entire forehead was split wide open, blood was pouring out of her face, and she's just- that's it right there. Look at that.

Speaker 1:26:34 Oh, my goodness.

Joe Rogan 1:26:35 And she's marching forward, throwing bombs where blood is, like, splattering-

Speaker 1:26:41 Wow!

Joe Rogan 1:26:41 Like, blood's splattering with every punch that lands on her face, and she's moving forward, throwing bo- it was fucking crazy.

Speaker 1:26:51 Ye- yeah, she's a warrior.

Joe Rogan 1:26:52 Oh, my God. I mean, that's the beginning of the cut. The cut got even worse than that. It was horrible at the end. I mean, it was fucking massive. It had to be, like, a six-inch cut on her forehead.

Speaker 1:27:03 That, that's, that's insane.

Joe Rogan 1:27:05 Where you could, like, see the whole skull.

Speaker 1:27:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:27:08 Like, when I was interviewing her, when I was talking to her after the fight-

Speaker 1:27:10 Oh

Joe Rogan 1:27:10 ... you could see her whole skull was, like, exposed.

Speaker 1:27:14 Yeah, I, I... You know, when we're talking about the last Doing Jackass Forever, we're talking about getting new cast members and talking about bringing on-

Joe Rogan 1:27:23 Yeah, look at that cut

Speaker 1:27:23 ... some females.

Joe Rogan 1:27:24 Look how crazy that is.

Speaker 1:27:25 And I was a little... That's insane.

Joe Rogan 1:27:27 Insane.

Speaker 1:27:28 That's insane, and I was a little hesitant, and then my, uh, uh, assistant, uh, Megan, and I'm talking to other... They're like: "Look, guys do it. What, y- it's like, women can do it." It... And I was, and I, I was forced to address it and let go of it. Uh, and I'm like, "All right, it-"

Joe Rogan 1:27:50 Who was saying, "Guys do it, women can do it?" Was it a guy or a girl?

Speaker 1:27:54 No, my assistant, Megan. She, she said-

Joe Rogan 1:27:55 But she was-

Speaker 1:27:55 ... And, and a couple of other, uh, friends, uh, they're women, and then, then they're just like: "You, you gotta stop looking at it that way." And I said, "All right," and I just moved forward, and we got, uh, Rachel Wolfson, and she was fantastic.

Joe Rogan 1:28:12 I love Rachel. She's at the club all the time.

Speaker 1:28:14 She's the best.

Joe Rogan 1:28:14 She's fun.

Speaker 1:28:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:15 She's a cool chick.

Speaker 1:28:16 Yeah, she's great.

Joe Rogan 1:28:17 Um, did- is there a photo of Irani Aldana's face now? Uh. See what it looks like when it's all healed up? It bothers me, man.

Speaker 1:28:25 Did she-

Joe Rogan 1:28:26 I don't know why.

Speaker 1:28:26 Uh, how, how many-

Joe Rogan 1:28:28 That's not real. That's a filter. That's an Instagram filter, dog.

Speaker 1:28:32 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:28:33 There's no way.

Speaker 1:28:34 That's an avatar.

Joe Rogan 1:28:35 That's what she looks like now, after the scar?

Speaker 1:28:37 Is that-

Joe Rogan 1:28:37 No, that's not possible

Speaker 1:28:38 ... That's an avatar, right?

Joe Rogan 1:28:39 Well, it's not possible that that, that went away. See, uh, Google or, or run a search of Irani Aldana after the surgery. It's, like, two weeks ago. Yeah, but that's all. You can-

Speaker 1:28:53 Well, there's makeup.

Joe Rogan 1:28:54 Yeah.

Speaker 1:28:55 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:28:55 Makeup and filter, that's like... That's what she looks like.

Speaker 1:28:57 Okay, there you go.

Joe Rogan 1:28:58 There you go.

Speaker 1:28:58 There you go.

Joe Rogan 1:28:59 Okay.

Speaker 1:28:59 You can see.

Joe Rogan 1:28:59 Go back there. See it again. You can kind of see in the beginning.

Speaker 1:29:03 Yeah, yeah, when the light hits it.

Joe Rogan 1:29:06 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:29:06 Yeah, there you go.

Joe Rogan 1:29:07 You can see it right there. Yeah. Wow, that's-

Speaker 1:29:09 Yeah, it looks pretty good. I mean, you can see it, but it-

Joe Rogan 1:29:12 Yeah

Speaker 1:29:12 ... gives her character.

Joe Rogan 1:29:13 Well, for a man, for a man, that's pretty dope, right?

Speaker 1:29:16 I don't know. I think-

Joe Rogan 1:29:17 Badass tough guy.

Speaker 1:29:17 I don't... It looks like she's pretty okay with everything.

Joe Rogan 1:29:20 She is a b- she's a beast.

Speaker 1:29:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:22 You know, that's an unusual woman, that is not just willing to do that and get her face cut open like that, but also, like, march forward in a mask of blood like a fucking horror movie, throwing bombs. And she was cut over her eye, her nose was split open, giant gash on her forehead, and just marching forward.

Speaker 1:29:42 So when they did... And who- and she was fighting?

Joe Rogan 1:29:45 [tsks] Uh, who was she fighting?

Speaker 1:29:46 And did they have a rematch? 'Cause I assume the judge, the, the referee called it after that.

Joe Rogan 1:29:51 No.

Speaker 1:29:51 They-

Joe Rogan 1:29:51 No, it went to decision. Yeah, she lost the decision.

Speaker 1:29:54 [chuckles] What, they go the doctor, they go over to the doctor, he looks at it, he's like, "Ah, you'll never notice on a galloping horse. Get back in there."

Joe Rogan 1:30:00 I don't know. I don't know what the referee was thinking, because referees have stopped fights for less injuries.

Speaker 1:30:05 Oh, yeah!

Joe Rogan 1:30:06 It's very subjective.

Speaker 1:30:07 Usually, when it goes from your eyebrow to the top of your skull. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:30:10 Yeah. It's very subjective. Like, one referee or one doctor will say, "Let it go," and then another doctor will go, "It's over." And if the doctor says it's over, it's over.

Speaker 1:30:19 But a referee inspected it when it-

Joe Rogan 1:30:22 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:30:22 ... when it split up her head.

Joe Rogan 1:30:23 Oh, yeah. They wiped it down. They allowed her to continue. Yeah, she, she got cut, and she-

Speaker 1:30:28 Who was that referee-

Joe Rogan 1:30:29 ... went back to her round

Speaker 1:30:29 ... who looked at it and said, "Yeah, you're fine.

Joe Rogan 1:30:31 Like, look at that.

Speaker 1:30:31 Get back in there, kid."

Joe Rogan 1:30:32 See if you can find video of it while it's happening.

Speaker 1:30:34 Look at her nose! The nose would've stopped the fight.

Joe Rogan 1:30:36 Nose is destroyed, forehead's destroyed. I don't remember what she got hit with. It was most likely an elbow that did that. Who was she fighting? Norma Dumont. Norma Dumont. Norma Dumont's a beast, too.

Speaker 1:30:48 And who won?

Joe Rogan 1:30:49 There are two... Norma did. Norma won. But I don't... What did she, uh... Like, see if you can find a video of it. The video of it is gnarly, because, like... And we're freaking out, 'cause we're doing the commentary, I'm like: "Oh, my God, this lady is a savage!"

Speaker 1:31:05 What round did that happen in?

Joe Rogan 1:31:06 That's a good question. I want, I wanna say it was the second round, but I don't totally recall.

Speaker 1:31:11 Oh, my God!

Joe Rogan 1:31:14 ... wh- what did you just have? You just had a-

Speaker 1:31:16 It was a video game.

Joe Rogan 1:31:17 Oh, it's a video game. [chuckles] The video games are so good-

Speaker 1:31:20 Yeah, the video's not going on right

Joe Rogan 1:31:20 ... you can't tell the difference now, that's the problem. [chuckles]

Speaker 1:31:22 In the fight in the video game.

Joe Rogan 1:31:24 Yeah, it's, uh... But again, it's, I don't know why, it's like when a woman gets knocked out, it bugs me way more.

Speaker 1:31:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31:31 I'm so used to guys getting knocked out.

Speaker 1:31:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31:34 When a guy gets knocked out, I'm like, "I hope he's okay." But when a woman gets knocked out, it's like my stomach turns. I'm like, "Uh," I just... You're sitting there in your commentary chair, you're just like, "Oh, fuck, man." When someone gets shinned in the head, just bang! And you see them, them stiffen up, it's like, there's something about a woman getting knocked out that I don't know why.

Speaker 1:31:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31:54 It's part... My, my brain is like, "No."

Speaker 1:31:58 Yeah. Those-

Joe Rogan 1:31:58 I'm so used to men getting knocked out.

Speaker 1:32:00 Yeah. Well, it, I mean, looks like y- y- I mean, you've, you've seen an- a lot of fights. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:32:07 I've probably seen more people get the fuck beaten out of them than anybody who's ever lived.

Speaker 1:32:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:12 In person, like, in person, watching elite fighters smash each other, I've probably seen more people get pummeled than anybody.

Speaker 1:32:21 Yeah, I wonder the number-

Joe Rogan 1:32:22 Or, or, or-

Speaker 1:32:23 ... of knockouts you've seen.

Joe Rogan 1:32:24 Oh, it has to be in the thousands. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how many fights I've called. I've started doing commentary... Well, I started doing post-fight interviews in 1997.

Speaker 1:32:34 Wow!

Joe Rogan 1:32:35 Yeah. So that was the fir- I worked at UFC 12 in 1997. Now we're at, like, UFC 324. So, and I've been there for a large percentage of them.

Speaker 1:32:47 I hate to pivot, but what do you think of Fedor?

Joe Rogan 1:32:49 I love him. I love him. He's one of the all-time greats. He was one of my favorite fighters of all time. He's the great... The great tragedy is Fedor never fought in the UFC against Cain Velasquez, 'cause they were both in their prime at the exact same time, and they could have made that happen.

Speaker 1:33:06 I love Fedor.

Joe Rogan 1:33:07 Oh, he was amazing.

Speaker 1:33:08 Like, the Pride fights-

Joe Rogan 1:33:09 Oh.

Speaker 1:33:09 ... Tremaine and I would, we'd all get, every time the Pride fights were on, we'd always watch Fedor.

Joe Rogan 1:33:14 And dude, he was stoic. I mean, stoic. Like, dead face, no matter what was going on. It could be the most chaotic, insane fight, getting blasted in the face, never changed his expression, like a fucking robot.

Speaker 1:33:28 But before the fight, all the fighters are jumping up and down, looking around-

Joe Rogan 1:33:32 And he's just standing there

Speaker 1:33:32 ... and he looks like he's about to fall asleep.

Joe Rogan 1:33:34 Yeah. Oh, he was amazing.

Speaker 1:33:36 When-

Joe Rogan 1:33:36 His, his mindset was fucking impenetrable.

Speaker 1:33:39 You remember when Kevin Randleman suplexed him?

Joe Rogan 1:33:41 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:33:42 And-

Joe Rogan 1:33:42 On his head

Speaker 1:33:43 ... I've never seen someone get suplexed on their head, and not only push through it, but th- he submitted him pretty soon afterwards, right?

Joe Rogan 1:33:55 Yeah, yeah, he got him in an armbar, like, very shortly after that.

Speaker 1:33:58 That, that still doesn't make any sense to me.

Joe Rogan 1:34:00 Oh, he was a freak. He was, he was a freak, man. Here, look at his face. Look how calm he looks.

Speaker 1:34:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34:06 Here it is. So he gets slammed-

Speaker 1:34:09 Oh, my goodness!

Joe Rogan 1:34:10 ... and just rolls, just rolls right into it. I mean, that was, that could have knocked most people completely unconscious, could have separated your vertebrae.

Speaker 1:34:19 And look, he's still... Look how-

Joe Rogan 1:34:21 Yeah

Speaker 1:34:21 ... strong.

Joe Rogan 1:34:22 And he reversed the position, like, seconds later.

Speaker 1:34:25 And Randleman was good on the ground.

Joe Rogan 1:34:26 Oh, fuck yeah, Randleman was a world-class wrestler.

Speaker 1:34:29 But look at that.

Joe Rogan 1:34:30 And a beast. But Fedor was special, man. He was special. And this is, like, Randleman's wearing wrestling shoes, too. He was allowed to wear wrestling shoes. Pride had a lot of crazy rules.

Speaker 1:34:39 That left of Fedor's.

Joe Rogan 1:34:41 Oh, everything, man, everything. He was the most complete. So he pins down the arm, and he eventually catches him. I think he caught him in a, uh, in a kimura. A kimura or a straight arm lock. It might've been... Yeah, here it is. He caught him in a kimura. Here it is.

Speaker 1:34:56 I mean, that's insane.

Joe Rogan 1:34:57 Insane.

Speaker 1:34:58 Within a minute, he-

Joe Rogan 1:34:59 Yep

Speaker 1:34:59 ... he-

Joe Rogan 1:35:00 Turned it around. Well, he was the most complete out of all those guys, 'cause he was, he was a guy that could fight you standing up at an elite level, but also in any kind of wild scramble, he would catch an armbar off of his back. He would submit you on the ground. He could throw you. He could do everything. He was the most complete out of all the heavyweights of his era.

Speaker 1:35:23 Yeah, I remember when he was fighting Nogueira, I was like, "Oh, no, this is... It could go south for Fedor," and-

Joe Rogan 1:35:29 You thought so? Yeah.

Speaker 1:35:30 I was, I was worried.

Joe Rogan 1:35:32 Yeah.

Speaker 1:35:33 You know, because I lo- you know, you, like, you look up to s- a fighter, and you're like, "He can't lose. I don't want him to lose." And I was worried about Nogueira, but he beat him twice, right?

Joe Rogan 1:35:41 Yeah, and they were brutal. The ground and pounds were fucking brutal. When he was on top of Nogueira, just bombing on him.

Speaker 1:35:48 Yeah, I'm like, "Fedor, don't go to the ground with Nogueira," 'cause I'm just worried. I'm like his aunt or something.

Joe Rogan 1:35:53 Right.

Speaker 1:35:53 But he, no problem.

Joe Rogan 1:35:55 No, he was, he was awesome. You know, the, but there's a time where a fighter can operate under that peak form, and it's a short window.

Speaker 1:36:06 Yeah, yeah, a short window.

Joe Rogan 1:36:06 You know, and I always say, when you're looking at the greatest of all time-

Speaker 1:36:10 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:36:10 ... you have to look at them in that peak window. You can't look at them when they're fighting in their late 30s, and they probably shouldn't be fighting anymore.

Speaker 1:36:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:17 You gotta, you gotta judge them based on who they were in their prime, because every combat sport a- athlete has a limited amount of time where they can operate in their prime.

Speaker 1:36:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:28 And Fedor, in his prime, was about as good as anybody who ever lived.

Speaker 1:36:31 I love hearing you say that.

Joe Rogan 1:36:33 Yeah, he was-

Speaker 1:36:33 [chuckles] Because I actually-

Joe Rogan 1:36:35 Fucking amazing. Fucking amazing.

Speaker 1:36:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:36 But it's like, w- when we had Cain in the UFC, Cain Velasquez, who was a, another superhuman freak, also super stoic, would just go, and had cardio like no heavyweight ever.

Speaker 1:36:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:36:49 Like, freakish, God-given cardio.

Speaker 1:36:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:53 And they'd call him Cardio Cain, 'cause he would just put a pace on guys, where you'd see the look on their face, and it was, like, the second round, they're like, "I can't do this."

Speaker 1:37:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:01 "I can't"

Speaker 1:37:01 He's just ready to go.

Joe Rogan 1:37:03 And he's just, just not even out of breath, just smashing you over and over and over again, picking you up, slamming you down. Like what he did to Brock Lesnar, and Brock Lesnar was fucking terrifying. He was a 300-pound man who was built like a Viking. Like, he just hopped off of a fucking ship with a battle axe-

Speaker 1:37:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:37:19 ... and Cain beat the fuck out of him.

Speaker 1:37:21 I know, that, that was an amazing fight. And, uh, I [chuckles] watched Brock Lesnar body slam Weeman through a table at a restaurant one night. [laughs] ... [clapping] it was one of the best things. We were there-

Joe Rogan 1:37:36 Was that on Jackass?

Speaker 1:37:37 No, no, we were-

Joe Rogan 1:37:38 [laughing]

Speaker 1:37:38 We were there to do, I was, uh, going to do WrestleMania. I believe it was WrestleMania, against that low down and dirty Sami Zayn. And we're at the restaurant, I think we're at the Four Seasons in their restaurant, and we all had a couple of drinks, and Brock just comes by t- he's leaving, and he comes by to say goodbye, you know? And We Man gets a little chatty. We Man got a mouth on him. So [chuckles] Brock just scoops him up like a baby, and he goes, "You're going through that table," and just lifts him up over his head, and s- bam! Right through the table. It was one of the best things I've ever seen.

Joe Rogan 1:38:17 [laughing]

Speaker 1:38:17 Just, it looked like one of those tables in an Old West bar fight.

Joe Rogan 1:38:21 This is it.

Speaker 1:38:22 Yeah, this is it. He's like, "No!" We Man's like, "No, no!" [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:38:28 Oh, Jesus Christ. That's a regular table, too.

Speaker 1:38:32 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:33 Oh.

Speaker 1:38:34 That's what you get for talking [chuckles] shit to Brock Lesnar. [laughing] It doesn't really compute in his head, I don't think.

Joe Rogan 1:38:41 Brock is a guy that, like, you know, he was NC- NCAA Division I national champion, like, elite wrestler. I always wondered what would've happened with him if he didn't go into pro wrestling for so long-

Speaker 1:38:54 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:38:54 ... if he just went into MMA right out of his college career. I think he could've been one of the all-time greats, too.

Speaker 1:38:59 Yeah, what are you gonna do with that guy if-

Joe Rogan 1:39:01 Right

Speaker 1:39:01 ... if he's been training for that long?

Joe Rogan 1:39:03 Well, he didn't train much in striking at all. Like, you could tell in the early days, his striking was ... You know, he was learning it. Obviously, an elite athlete, a freak of nature physically, but he was j- still learning striking, and striking is something that takes a long time to really get a, a mastery of.

Speaker 1:39:20 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39:20 He wasn't ... You know, so he, he was just fi- and he didn't need the money, didn't need to do it. Was already a giant pro wrestling star.

Speaker 1:39:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39:30 Could've just stayed Brock Lesnar, but just decided, "I want to see what would happen if I fight for real."

Speaker 1:39:37 He liked it.

Joe Rogan 1:39:38 And he beat a lot of really fucking good guys.

Speaker 1:39:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39:40 Which is kind of crazy. I mean, he beat Randy Couture, who's an all-time great.

Speaker 1:39:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39:45 He beat Frank Mir, who's, you know, an all-time great.

Speaker 1:39:48 He's a freak athlete, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:39:50 Oh, he's fucking horrific.

Speaker 1:39:52 Uh.

Joe Rogan 1:39:52 Horrific dude.

Speaker 1:39:54 Who's the young guy, Gable Stevenson?

Joe Rogan 1:39:56 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:39:57 He's k- I think he's a problem.

Joe Rogan 1:39:58 Ooh, he's a-

Speaker 1:39:59 'Cause his striking looks good

Joe Rogan 1:40:00 ... giant problem!

Speaker 1:40:01 His striking looks good.

Joe Rogan 1:40:02 He's a giant problem because he's a 250-pound man that moves like a 150-pound man. He's so fucking fast for, and so athletic for a big guy, and elite wrestling skills. I mean, gold medalist in the Olympics of wrestling skills. That, that kind of wrestling skill is, like, so hard to fuck with.

Speaker 1:40:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:23 He's got that, and ridiculous power and speed in his hands, and just this ... There's a mindset that, like, some guys have, like, elite athletes have, this, like, unstoppable drive-

Speaker 1:40:37 The discipline

Joe Rogan 1:40:38 ... and discipline.

Speaker 1:40:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:38 Yeah, and he's got that, and, like, he's gonna be a f- I sent Dana White a text message, 'cause h- he had an MMA fight, and hit this dude with a left hook, and then as the dude's going out, he fucking slams him to the ground. He's landed the punch, and he had enough speed to close the distance and fucking slam him to the ground while he's unconscious from the punch.

Speaker 1:41:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:41:00 And I sent Dana White a text message, and I said, "Everybody's fucked." I just sent him that clip.

Speaker 1:41:05 I sent him [chuckles] I sent Dana the same clip. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:41:08 Did you really? [laughing]

Speaker 1:41:10 Dana, what are, what are we doing here? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:41:13 Gable's the first guy that I've ever had in the studio that isn't even in the UFC yet, and that only has ha- has had, like, a couple fights, where I was like, "I want to have this guy on right away." Like, look at that. Like-

Speaker 1:41:24 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:41:24 ... fucking, so cr-

Speaker 1:41:26 That speed is so fast!

Joe Rogan 1:41:27 He's so insane. Look at that s- the, the transition between, he KOs him-

Speaker 1:41:31 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:41:31 ... with a left hook, and then look at this, just hops to the top of the octagon. Freak.

Speaker 1:41:35 But go back to the knockout, 'cause look at the guy when he's on ... And you can see the birdies flying around-

Joe Rogan 1:41:40 Yeah

Speaker 1:41:40 ... his head in that one angle.

Joe Rogan 1:41:42 And then slams the punches on him.

Speaker 1:41:42 On the opposite angle, it's, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:41:44 I mean, that is crazy speed, and then blasts him with a punch, all before the referee can even get to him. That dude's like, "What the fuck just happened?"

Speaker 1:41:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:41:52 And he has a hard time getting fights. That's ... He'll, he'll probably be in the UFC quicker than he should be because no one wants to fight him. It's, on the regional circuit, the smaller promotions, very difficult to get a guy like that to fight because you can't beat him. You know you can't b- so if you're ... You gotta be the type of guy, like, almost like you are with stunts, like, "All right-

Speaker 1:42:12 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:42:12 ... let's fucking do it!"

Speaker 1:42:13 Yeah, [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:42:13 "Let's see what happens."

Speaker 1:42:14 [laughing] That's what you need.

Joe Rogan 1:42:15 Because you're not fast enough to avoid the punches. You're not skillful enough to stop the takedown. You can't do anything about it once he's on top of you. You're not getting back up. You're just gonna get pummeled. Like, what are you gonna do? And some guys are just so gangster, they're like, "Let's see how I do," and-

Speaker 1:42:30 You're just standing in front of a coal train.

Joe Rogan 1:42:31 But most guys are gonna not fight. They're gonna get that offer, and they're gonna go, "Fuck that. I want to be a world-class fighter someday. I gotta get better. There's no way I'm gonna get better if I fight that guy, and I realize how tall the mountain actually is that I'm supposed to climb."

Speaker 1:42:45 But to any prospective fighters of Gable Stevenson out there, who maybe don't want to fight him, take it from me, it doesn't take that long to get knocked out.

Joe Rogan 1:42:57 That-

Speaker 1:42:57 It's going to be an easy night. It, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:42:59 Right

Speaker 1:42:59 ... it's going to, what, 15 seconds of your time?

Joe Rogan 1:43:02 That's not the problem. The problem is ... Well, so like, in boxing, okay, this is a good ex- so boxing has always traditionally done a way better job of preparing fighters for world-class fighters.

Speaker 1:43:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:43:15 So even Mike Tyson, who was a phenom, in his prime, he fought a bunch of journeymen-

Speaker 1:43:20 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:43:20 ... in the beginning.

Speaker 1:43:20 Mitch "Blood" Green.

Joe Rogan 1:43:22 Well, he was good. Mitch "Blood" Green was good.

Speaker 1:43:24 No, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:24 Mitch "Blood" Green went to decision.

Speaker 1:43:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:26 I mean, he was a gang leader, and he was a crazy person.

Speaker 1:43:29 Not just a street fight.

Joe Rogan 1:43:29 No, in the street fight, Mike fucked him up-

Speaker 1:43:30 That was- [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:43:30 ... but he also broke his hand in the street fight, in a haberdashery in Harlem. [laughing] Which is crazy. So they-

Speaker 1:43:37 Slipped into alliteration.

Joe Rogan 1:43:39 Yeah. I mean, they fought in a haberd-

Speaker 1:43:40 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:43:40 ... uh, they fought in a place where you make, get custom suits made.

Speaker 1:43:45 ... and why wouldn't you?

Joe Rogan 1:43:46 Why wouldn't you? So, uh, that fight was like, Mitch "Blood" Green was a, a, a, he was a real pro. He was a real elite fighter. You want- but you go to the early days of Mike Tyson, where he's fighting guys that have fucking zero business being in there with him.

Speaker 1:44:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:44:00 And these guys just took the payday, and just got knocked into orbit. And those fights are some of the most fun fights to watch, 'cause you realize you're dealing with a guy who's gonna be one of the all-time greats.

Speaker 1:44:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:44:12 And you're getting to see him when he's 19, and no one had any idea what was coming.

Speaker 1:44:18 No.

Joe Rogan 1:44:18 You know, like, some of his first fights, people had heard rumblings. There's this kid out of the Catskills.

Speaker 1:44:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:44:23 Everybody talked about it, but until you saw him, you're just like, "Oh, God! Good Lord."

Speaker 1:44:29 Just all business, too.

Joe Rogan 1:44:30 All business, no socks. Fucking-

Speaker 1:44:33 The, the, just the towel-

Joe Rogan 1:44:34 Yep

Speaker 1:44:34 ... with the hole in it.

Joe Rogan 1:44:35 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:44:36 And it just, it was-

Joe Rogan 1:44:38 Throwback.

Speaker 1:44:40 Yeah, it was... But there was never a throwback fighter, like, that had just a towel over, you know, his head walking into the ring.

Joe Rogan 1:44:47 Well, you'd have to go back to, like, the Jack Dempsey days, which Tyson did. See, Tyson had this advantage that his manager was Jim Jacobs, and Jim Jacobs was a boxing historian, and so Jim Jacobs had all these films-

Speaker 1:45:01 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:45:01 ... of all the old-school fighters. Sandy Saddler-

Speaker 1:45:05 Yeah, he's a big-

Joe Rogan 1:45:05 Willy Pep. Yeah.

Speaker 1:45:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:06 And so Mike would just sit and watch all these great fighters, all the old-school guys, all the old Joe Louis fights on film, you know, all the Sugar Ray Robinson fights, and-

Speaker 1:45:17 Which there are not a lot on film. I wish there were-

Joe Rogan 1:45:19 Right

Speaker 1:45:19 ... 'cause we never have prime Sugar Ray Robinson. Like, there's not a lot of films.

Joe Rogan 1:45:25 Well, you can watch them on YouTube.

Speaker 1:45:27 But I, I don't think, like, prime, prime. I think after a certain-

Joe Rogan 1:45:31 Oh, no, there's some prime Sugar Ray Robinson. Yeah, you can watch some great Sugar Ray Robinson KOs that are on.

Speaker 1:45:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:38 He was another guy, I mean, I think he had, like, 90 fights. W- I think he was, like, something like 90 and 0 before he-

Speaker 1:45:44 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:45:45 ... f- had his first loss.

Speaker 1:45:45 And then he went another 40 fights before he lost the second.

Joe Rogan 1:45:49 Crazy!

Speaker 1:45:50 Insane, but-

Joe Rogan 1:45:51 Crazy. And they were fighting all the time back then.

Speaker 1:45:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:54 Those guys would fight multiple times in a year. It wasn't like today, where, you know, guys will, like Canelo and Crawford, they talk about it. Like, Crawford hadn't had a fight in, like, a year and a half, like...

Speaker 1:46:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:05 It wasn't like that back then.

Speaker 1:46:06 They were fighting a few times a month.

Joe Rogan 1:46:07 Constantly.

Speaker 1:46:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:08 But also, you know, then the end is so sad, because in the end, Sugar Ray Robinson had dementia, and it's like-

Speaker 1:46:15 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:46:15 ... he couldn't talk. There's some interviews of him, later in life, that are really, really fucking sad.

Speaker 1:46:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:22 So that's the thing about a guy fighting Gableson, Gable Stevenson. It's not that Gable's gonna beat you, and getting knocked out's not that bad. It's that your confidence is gonna be destroyed, and you will y- get knocked out easier next time, which is the problem with getting knocked out.

Speaker 1:46:38 Yeah, the glass... Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:40 Yeah.

Speaker 1:46:40 Yeah, I can attest to that.

Joe Rogan 1:46:41 Is it happening to you now? Like, will you get KO'd easier?

Speaker 1:46:44 I get my knockouts... I got knocked out easier, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:48 Y-

Speaker 1:46:48 It's the old glass jaw.

Joe Rogan 1:46:49 You notice the difference?

Speaker 1:46:51 Yeah, I mean, w- wa- I could watch the impacts afterwards, and m- that might not have got me five or six years ago, but now it's just-

Joe Rogan 1:47:01 You just go out.

Speaker 1:47:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:02 How many times do you think you've been KO'd?

Speaker 1:47:04 Six- uh, l- about 16.

Joe Rogan 1:47:09 Wow!

Speaker 1:47:10 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:47:12 That's a lot.

Speaker 1:47:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:14 Have you ever gotten, like, brain scans done and-

Speaker 1:47:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:17 What do they say?

Speaker 1:47:19 Well, they're, you know, [laughing] they're not the best brain scans they ever looked at. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:47:26 [laughing]

Speaker 1:47:26 I didn't win any awards for my brain scan, Joe. [laughing] They're like, "Don't get any more, uh, concussions."

Joe Rogan 1:47:34 But did they say there's anything going on there that you need to be concerned about?

Speaker 1:47:38 Uh, well, they, y- they don't know about... You know, you can't detect CTE until post-mortem.

Joe Rogan 1:47:48 Right, but do you have any lingering issues, like memory issues, impulse control?

Speaker 1:47:54 Uh, the... I can... Well, I, I don't know whether it's I'm getting older, or... I can remember a lot of, like, things from four year- like, from my childhood, and that kind of thing, I have complete recall. But what I did, uh, a week ago, you know, it's, it's up, it's up in the air.

Joe Rogan 1:48:15 And do you think that's connected to the head injuries?

Speaker 1:48:20 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:48:20 Or is it just, like, aging?

Speaker 1:48:21 I-

Joe Rogan 1:48:21 'Cause as you get older, you forget things.

Speaker 1:48:22 Well, there's the million-dollar question.

Joe Rogan 1:48:24 Right.

Speaker 1:48:24 So-

Joe Rogan 1:48:25 But you seem okay.

Speaker 1:48:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:26 Which is part of the problem, like, uh, I know a lot of fighters that seem fine, but I know publicly or privately, they're struggling.

Speaker 1:48:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:36 I know they have, like, issues, you know?

Speaker 1:48:39 Yeah. I'm, uh... I, I, after that, that with the Magician one, I kinda went offline for a few months, but I, I completely recovered.

Joe Rogan 1:48:50 Went offline, like how so?

Speaker 1:48:52 Uh, just slowly over a period of months, I just got super depressed and-

Joe Rogan 1:49:00 Ooh

Speaker 1:49:00 ... anxious and fearful of everything.

Joe Rogan 1:49:05 Ooh.

Speaker 1:49:05 Uh, just, in my mind, it was just a loop of everything bad and, is gonna happen, just catastrophic thinking and ruminating.

Joe Rogan 1:49:15 Mm.

Speaker 1:49:15 And, uh, yeah, it was, my creative mind turned against me, right? Uh, and it, it was f- it was frightening. It felt like you're in the bottom of a well, looking up. And eventually, I got on some medication, and I-

Joe Rogan 1:49:37 What kind of medication did they give you for that?

Speaker 1:49:38 Oh, shit, I can't remember. Um, but after a couple of months on, or m- actually, about-... four to six weeks on the medication, I- the colors came back, and I started feeling like myself again, and-

Joe Rogan 1:49:58 Did you lose sight of colors? Did you get colorblind?

Speaker 1:50:02 No, that was, uh, just-

Joe Rogan 1:50:03 Metaphorically?

Speaker 1:50:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:50:04 Okay.

Speaker 1:50:05 Um, and then I'm, I'm not- I went off the medicine, and I'm fine, but it was, uh ... Yeah, it was pretty intense.

Joe Rogan 1:50:13 So did they do anything for that? Like, I, I know there's some different therapies they do for people that have-

Speaker 1:50:19 I did a thing, a transcranial magnetic stimulation.

Joe Rogan 1:50:22 Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you about.

Speaker 1:50:23 And-

Joe Rogan 1:50:24 Yeah

Speaker 1:50:24 ... I started that, and it was kind of, I was in the middle of my episode, and I started that. You do it over, like, six to eight weeks, I can't remember. And I remember at the first, I'd start it, and I'd talk to the guy running it, but by the end, the end of the eight weeks, I was just kind of ... I wouldn't look at him, I wouldn't talk to him, and, uh, yeah, I was just completely in my head all the time.

Joe Rogan 1:50:56 By the ... So it got worse progressively then?

Speaker 1:50:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:50:59 Wow!

Speaker 1:51:00 Yeah, it got worse. But yeah, the just medication and, ah, I came out of it.

Joe Rogan 1:51:10 Well, I'm glad you came out of it.

Speaker 1:51:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:12 But that's a good reason to not do that-

Speaker 1:51:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:51:14 ... kind of shit anymore.

Speaker 1:51:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:16 The risk that you don't wanna-

Speaker 1:51:16 That's why I was like, "I can't," I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:51:17 Yeah.

Speaker 1:51:18 I, it was-

Joe Rogan 1:51:19 It's too much.

Speaker 1:51:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:21 Yeah. Well, that's what I worry about with fighters, because, like, listen, w- you and I are sitting here, we're talking. You're not slurring your words. You seem fine. Everything seems ... There's fighters that you see the slurring, and you see the mumbling of the words, and yet they're still fighting.

Speaker 1:51:38 Yeah, that's like, uh, Ali-

Joe Rogan 1:51:41 Uh-huh

Speaker 1:51:42 ... at the end.

Joe Rogan 1:51:42 Sure.

Speaker 1:51:43 It was-

Joe Rogan 1:51:43 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Speaker 1:51:43 ... when he's doing those interviews-

Joe Rogan 1:51:45 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:51:45 ... around the Leon Spinks fights and-

Joe Rogan 1:51:47 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:51:49 You know, even Larry Holmes was sparring with him. They, they could notice-

Joe Rogan 1:51:54 Oh, yeah

Speaker 1:51:54 ... notice the difference.

Joe Rogan 1:51:55 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:51:57 But it's like, you ... How do you ... It's tough to figure out how to, uh ... I- I- he has a certain spirit in, about him, and how do you outrun that?

Joe Rogan 1:52:13 Which made him a champion.

Speaker 1:52:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:52:14 Yeah.

Speaker 1:52:14 How do you outrun that? How do you put that light out? And that's, that's the, that's the problem.

Joe Rogan 1:52:20 I think you have to plant that seed in a fighter's head when they're young.

Speaker 1:52:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:52:24 I don't think you could tell them that this is going to be a ride that lasts forever. I think you have to tell them, "There's gonna be a time when we realize we have to stop this-

Speaker 1:52:35 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:52:35 ... we have to stop doing this, and you're gonna have to trust me-

Speaker 1:52:38 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:52:38 ... because I'm on the outside, and I'm, I'm gonna watch you very carefully, and we're gonna s- make sure that you, you never get to a point where you're ..." Like, I like a fighter that retires, and they can talk, and they're fine, and they're good.

Speaker 1:52:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:52:53 Like, I, I like that. I like when a guy gets out ... Like, Andre Ward is one of my favorite fighters because not just was he a two-division world champion, not only was, like, he, he, he an elite boxer, but he retired undefeated and never came back, and now he's fine. He does commentary. You're hanging out with him. He's got no lingering problems. He's good. Like, he got off the right time. I like that.

Speaker 1:53:18 Yeah, I, I often think, what, w- where would ... It's a little, it's sort of a pivot: Where would Roy Jones be, Jr., be ranked if he retired after the Ruiz fight?

Joe Rogan 1:53:29 Right.

Speaker 1:53:30 After he became heavyweight champion.

Joe Rogan 1:53:31 It's a very good question.

Speaker 1:53:32 It's-

Joe Rogan 1:53:32 I think that was one of the biggest mistakes that he ever did, was going up to heavyweight and then going down to 175 again.

Speaker 1:53:40 To fight Tarver.

Joe Rogan 1:53:41 Right, because he wasn't a heavyweight that was fat. It wasn't like he could lose 25 pounds of extra fat that he put on. No, he was shredded-

Speaker 1:53:50 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:53:50 ... at 200 pounds and then lost 25 pounds of muscle, so he had to starve himself-

Speaker 1:53:56 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:53:56 ... to get back down to 75 again. 'Cause once your body gets accustomed to carrying around all that extra weight, like, that's your new frame, and today they would never say do that again.

Speaker 1:54:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:54:06 Like in the UFC, there's been some guys that had some radical weight cuts, like Alex Pereira is probably the best example, but once he went down to 185, he was cutting a tremendous amount of weight to get to 85. But once he went up to 205, now he's a 205er. He stays at 205.

Speaker 1:54:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:54:22 And now he's even talking about going up to heavyweight, which is crazy.

Speaker 1:54:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:54:26 But he's got the frame for it. But, like, if he went all the way up to heavyweight and then tried to go all the way down to 85 again, he would be so fragile. You're so vulnerable. If you get hit, w- the guys who dehydrate themselves significantly, they get KO'd way easier.

Speaker 1:54:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:54:43 And guys will tell you that, like, when they cut the weight, they can't take a punch. It's just different because your brain doesn't rehydrate in time. So if you're re- dehydrating to make, let's say, 170, if you're dehydrated to make 170, but you really weigh 200, you can get down to 170 for the weight. But once you rehydrate and you're two- 200 again for the fight, you're ... You don't have water in your brain yet.

Speaker 1:55:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:08 Your brain's not re- ... Your brain takes days before it completely rehydrates or-

Speaker 1:55:14 It's dangerous.

Joe Rogan 1:55:14 It's very dangerous.

Speaker 1:55:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:16 Yeah. But so that's the thing, it's like you're talking about all the problems that you have, but yet you're sitting here, you're not slurring your words, you're laughing, you're coherent, we're having a good time. And now think about these guys that you see that start mumbling, and their words all kind of slur together, and they're [mumbling]

Speaker 1:55:34 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:34 It's weird. You have a hard time understanding them, like they-

Speaker 1:55:37 The fits of rage.

Joe Rogan 1:55:38 Yes.

Speaker 1:55:38 Yeah. They lose control.

Joe Rogan 1:55:39 They 100% should not be fighting-

Speaker 1:55:40 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:55:41 ... and yet they're still fighting. And athletic commissions will even pass them.

Speaker 1:55:45 Is, does Wanderlei Silva still fight? Does he slur?

Joe Rogan 1:55:48 Oh, [exhales] dude, Wanderlei Silva just had a boxing match in Brazil that turned into a brawl. So, so he was-... boxing this guy, and the c- bunch of people jumped into the ring and started brawling, and one of the guys that jumped in the ring KO'd him. Hit him with a bare-knuckle punch and knocked him out cold-

Speaker 1:56:13 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:56:13 Where he falls back and bounces, and they have to drag him out of the ring. So while people are ... There's a melee. There's, like, 10 people fighting inside the ring, and he's stretched out cold. Here, watch it. Jimmy? Oh, I'm trying to find a good version of it. He- He found it.

Speaker 1:56:28 He was amazing in the Pride fights.

Joe Rogan 1:56:30 Oh, he was a fucking warrior-

Speaker 1:56:32 He-

Joe Rogan 1:56:32 ... a savage.

Speaker 1:56:33 A problem.

Joe Rogan 1:56:34 He was so crazy. But that, that's another guy that's been KO'd so many fucking times. I don't speak Portuguese, but my friends who do say you can clearly tell the difference. True. So here's the fight. So this is afterwards. Boom!-

Speaker 1:56:48 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 1:56:49 He gets KO'd.

Speaker 1:56:49 The back of the canvas.

Joe Rogan 1:56:50 So this guy, this guy just w- cracks him with a right hand. He doesn't even see it coming, and he's out cold, flat on his back, and then they just have to drag him away from all these people fighting, which is crazy.

Speaker 1:57:01 Jesus! Oh, that's sad.

Joe Rogan 1:57:03 He's dead.

Speaker 1:57:04 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 1:57:05 Dead out cold. Yeah, and again, this is a guy that's ... He got knocked out by Mirko Cro Cop. He got head-kick KO'd. He got knocked out by Rampage Jackson. He got knocked out by some big fucking scary shots.

Speaker 1:57:19 Cro Cop had legs like Earl Campbell.

Joe Rogan 1:57:21 Oof.

Speaker 1:57:22 They were just ridiculous looking.

Joe Rogan 1:57:24 Yeah. No, he was, he was one of the most elite strikers that ever competed in MMA. He was terrifying, too. The, the stare-down between Wanderlei Silva and Mirko Cro Cop, in my opinion, is the greatest stare-down in the history of combat sports. Because you've got a guy who, in Wanderlei Silva, is one of the most intimidating, terrifying MMA fighters that ever lived.

Speaker 1:57:46 Aggressive.

Joe Rogan 1:57:46 But then in Mirko Cro Cop, you got a guy who's the head of an anti-terrorist squadron, who's [laughs] fucking probably murdered people. Like, look at-

Speaker 1:57:53 Oh, [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:57:54 ... look at, look at the difference. That motherfucker ain't scared of shit. Look at this stare-down. Look at Cro Cop.

Speaker 1:57:59 Neither one of them are scared.

Joe Rogan 1:58:00 Yeah, I think m-

Speaker 1:58:01 You think Wanderlei is?

Joe Rogan 1:58:02 Wanderlei might have been feeling it a little.

Speaker 1:58:03 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:58:03 Yeah, that guy's looking through to his fucking soul.

Speaker 1:58:07 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:58:08 Mirko is r- this ... 100%, Mirko wins this stare-down. Mirko was looking through to his fucking soul, dude.

Speaker 1:58:15 Oh, my goodness.

Joe Rogan 1:58:17 That is a stare-down, son. Look at his eyes. That is a serious man. [coughs] And, I mean, Mirko-

Speaker 1:58:25 That ref's got his hands full.

Joe Rogan 1:58:26 Oh, yeah. Well, they always had their hands full in Pride, because they had stomps and soccer kicks, and it was a crazy organization.

Speaker 1:58:33 Do they test in Pride? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:58:35 No! Not only do they not test ... Well, they did test. They didn't do anything-

Speaker 1:58:39 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:58:39 ... it was a fake test. Ensign-

Speaker 1:58:40 You get an A+ on steroids. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:58:42 Enson Inoue is another legend, and, uh, just one of the all-time greats and a pioneer of MMA from the early days. Enson told me [chuckles] when he did the podcast, he said they had in all capital letters, "We do not test for steroids."

Speaker 1:58:57 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:58:57 Like, they wanted you on steroids, which is-

Speaker 1:59:01 Or growth hormone.

Joe Rogan 1:59:02 They wanted you on it! Because, look, if you want excitement and you don't have a sanctioning body, like, why would you ... Your, your goal is to create the best product. Like, what's the best product? Bunch of juiced-up fucking psychopaths beating the shit out of each other. Highly skilled, juiced-up savages going to war. That's what you want. You don't want anybody who's dealing with normal hormone levels. Fuck that. So they would encourage people.

Speaker 1:59:28 I, uh, I don't ... I didn't hear any rumors of Fedor doing that. Do you think Fedor? I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:59:34 Well, you can only speculate. You don't know, 'cause he didn't look like he was on steroids, right? Because he had, like, dad bod, but jacked, you know. But, uh, he carried along some extra body fat, 'cause he didn't have to worry about losing weight. But he came from the Russian sports program, you know, and they cheated with everything.

Speaker 1:59:53 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:59:53 The, the, the reality of ... Have you ever seen that movie Icarus?

Speaker 1:59:56 No.

Joe Rogan 1:59:57 Oh, it's a great movie.

Speaker 1:59:58 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 1:59:58 Oh, my God. Bryan Fogel made this documentary, and it's, it's a really interesting documentary because he made the documentary ... The, this was the plan of it. He was an endurance racer, so he was gonna do a cycling race, and he was gonna do it naturally. So he does, does it, compares his numbers, and then he hires this guy, uh, Grigory Rodchenkov. Is it Rodchenkov? Yep. Yeah, you got it. I think you said it right. Rodchenkov? Yep. Um, he was ... That's the guy who was the head of the Russian anti-doping, and I'm making air quotes, "anti-doping program."

Speaker 2:00:32 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:00:33 And so during ... Yeah, Rodchenkov. Grigory Rodchenkov. So during the filming of it, it turns out that the Russians get busted, because during the Sochi Olympics, the entire, the entire roster of Russian athletes-

Speaker 2:00:52 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 2:00:52 ... was on 'roids.

Speaker 2:00:53 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:00:53 So what they did was, they cut a hole in the wall, and they would take the-

Speaker 2:00:57 Boing

Joe Rogan 2:00:58 ... the piss that the Russians had given after the competition, they'd sneak it through the hole, and sneak in some new piss and put it in its place.

Speaker 2:01:06 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:01:06 But what they had found was that there was micro-abrasions in the jars. They supposedly had these unopenable jars.

Speaker 2:01:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:01:14 And the Russians had figured out a way to, like, snake some sort of a utensil or some sort of a, a, a device and open up these jars, swap out the piss, and put in some cl- fresh, clean piss-

Speaker 2:01:27 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:01:27 ... in the same jar. So this is while they're filming. So he is being taught how to juice up by this guy. So this guy's telling him, "This is what you would take, and this is how much to take." So he's doing this-

Speaker 2:01:41 Stop at this long before-

Joe Rogan 2:01:42 ... preparing, preparing to go do this cycling race juiced up, and while this is happening, this guy has to flee Russia, 'cause now he gets busted. And then he starts telling Bryan Fogel everything. He tells him how they run the program. So now, to this day, this guy's hiding. He's in witness protection. They took his ... They arrested h- his family. I think they took his family's money away. They took their home away. They took everything, and because they want him, them-

Speaker 2:02:09 Right

Joe Rogan 2:02:09 ... to turn this guy in.

Speaker 2:02:10 Sure.

Joe Rogan 2:02:10 So he's in witness protection right now, still in America, hiding, 'cause they'll assassinate him if they find him.

Speaker 2:02:16 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:02:17 ... 'cause this guy gave up the entire secrets of the Russian doping program, which led to, in the Brazil Olympics, Russia was banned from the Brazil Olympics.

Speaker 2:02:26 Yeah. Yeah, for the doping in Sochi.

Joe Rogan 2:02:27 Yeah. So this documentary is fucking wild because it shows, uh, he tells every- the only people they didn't do it with was figure skaters. They said the figure skaters, it didn't help, and it, it actually hurt a little bit to give them the drugs.

Speaker 2:02:41 We tried, but it didn't help.

Joe Rogan 2:02:43 Yeah, they wanna keep them gay. [laughing]

Speaker 2:02:46 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:02:47 They wanted to keep them, like, whatever they wanted to keep them. They just felt like there's something about giving them testosterone, giving them, uh, human growth hormone, steroids, it fucked with their fine motor skills, and you, you have- it's like a such a delicate sport. You know?

Speaker 2:03:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:03:02 It's a sport of... It's just hand-eye coordination and balance, and it didn't help them to be on performance-enhancing drugs.

Speaker 2:03:09 [chuckles] You said, "Keep them gay." I don't think if you gave steroids to Johnny Weir, it's gonna, you know... [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:03:16 You- only one way to find out. [laughing] No, I'm just kidding about that.

Speaker 2:03:19 That guy is, uh, um... He's, he's pretty entertaining, Johnny Weir.

Joe Rogan 2:03:24 Was he a gay porn star?

Speaker 2:03:25 No, he was a Olympic skater, right?

Joe Rogan 2:03:28 He's gay?

Speaker 2:03:28 Johnny- is it Johnny Weir? It's Johnny Weir.

Joe Rogan 2:03:33 You, you... Oh, right, right, right, right, right.

Speaker 2:03:35 He's fantastic.

Joe Rogan 2:03:36 I don't know why I thought gay porn star. I thought, like, if you're giving steroids to a gay guy, what would be the, the last guy that you'd wanna do it to, to see if you could turn him not gay, would be a gay porn star, right? [laughing]

Speaker 2:03:49 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:03:49 Like, just give him steroids, and all of a sudden he's like, "Why am I fucking all these guys?

Speaker 2:03:52 Yeah. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:03:53 This is crazy. Thank you. You've cured me." It turns out it wasn't pray the gay away-

Speaker 2:03:58 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:03:58 ... it's inject the gay away.

Speaker 2:03:59 Oh, that, that, that preacher, Pray the Gay Away.

Joe Rogan 2:04:02 Yeah. Oh, those guys are funny. Those guys are almost all gay, those, those gay retreats.

Speaker 2:04:06 Of course!

Joe Rogan 2:04:07 Yeah.

Speaker 2:04:07 Yeah, it's like-

Joe Rogan 2:04:08 They'll get together and hug it out with boners.

Speaker 2:04:11 It's like...

Joe Rogan 2:04:11 Yeah, kind of sad. But-

Speaker 2:04:13 Just be, just be how you're gonna be, man.

Joe Rogan 2:04:15 Yeah.

Speaker 2:04:15 Don't, like, tell everyone what to do. Just live your life however you wanna live it-

Joe Rogan 2:04:19 Yeah

Speaker 2:04:19 ... you know?

Joe Rogan 2:04:19 Well, there's a burden of responsibility on some of us for being judgmental, uh, and for so long. I mean, being gay was so dangerous, it, to come out.

Speaker 2:04:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:27 You could get killed. You'd get beaten.

Speaker 2:04:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:30 You know, it- I mean, it's a testament to our society today that it is, like, not just accepted but celebrated that people are gay. It's because it, for so long, it was so hard to be gay.

Speaker 2:04:42 Yeah. Oh, of course.

Joe Rogan 2:04:43 Do you know, you know the Turing test? Do you know what the Turing test is?

Speaker 2:04:46 Uh, yeah, well, Alan Turing was gay-

Joe Rogan 2:04:48 Yeah

Speaker 2:04:48 ... and they, I mean-

Joe Rogan 2:04:49 Yeah

Speaker 2:04:49 ... that's a ter- that's a-

Joe Rogan 2:04:50 Terrible story

Speaker 2:04:51 ... tragic story.

Joe Rogan 2:04:52 Yeah.

Speaker 2:04:52 The man, uh, like, really had a, a enormous impact on World War II, and but still he was- he had to be closeted, and then the... I don't-

Joe Rogan 2:05:04 And then they chemically castrated him.

Speaker 2:05:05 Yeah, it was-

Joe Rogan 2:05:06 Yeah, in England-

Speaker 2:05:07 It's tragic

Joe Rogan 2:05:07 ... in the 1950s. And he's the guy who came up with the Turing test, which is a way to determine whether or not artif- artificial intelligence had achieved sentience. Could you tell if you're having... And most people believe that at this point in time, you can't tell. Like, the Turing test has already been achieved.

Speaker 2:05:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:05:25 Like, they've already passed it. Like, if you talk to, like, Perplexity, this is what I use for everything, if I talk to it, I, I, I would not know whether or not that's a person or not.

Speaker 2:05:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:05:35 I mean, it can communicate like a human.

Speaker 2:05:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:05:38 And it can answer questions about any- it's just basically like a super genius human being that I ask questions to all the time on my phone, and I don't, I don't ever feel like this is a computer. It feels like a fucking person that's just-

Speaker 2:05:52 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:05:52 ... like, you have a wizard that you can ask, ask any question of, and it can give you the answer. So that's Alan Turing's invention, was this test to determine whether or not you could t- determine whether artificial intelligence had achieved sentience. And what did they do to this guy? They fucking, they, they chemically castrated him for being gay, and he wound up committing suicide.

Speaker 2:06:13 I- it's tragic. I mean, uh, all that he did with- in World War II to... I mean, he's the father of the modern computer.

Joe Rogan 2:06:22 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:06:22 He-

Joe Rogan 2:06:23 Yeah

Speaker 2:06:23 ... helped break the Enigma code, which was considered unbreakable.

Joe Rogan 2:06:27 Yeah.

Speaker 2:06:28 And, and just his country turned its back on him, and, like, ev- all- everyone like him, really.

Joe Rogan 2:06:37 And not even that long ago. That's what's crazy, like, people who were alive back then are still alive today.

Speaker 2:06:43 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:06:43 And that's how much the world has shifted.

Speaker 2:06:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:06:46 And, you know, whatever it's been, 80 years.

Speaker 2:06:48 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:06:48 It's kind of crazy.

Speaker 2:06:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:06:50 Not even 80 years, 70 years, right? Crazy.

Speaker 2:06:53 Yeah. That... Yeah, I'm fascinated by, uh, World War II and the characters from that.

Joe Rogan 2:07:00 Oh, yeah. No, World War II is a nutty time in history, and it's also the, in a lot of people's eyes in America, one of the reasons why people are so fascinated with World War II, it's the last time Americans got to feel like real heroes.

Speaker 2:07:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:16 Like, we fucking did it.

Speaker 2:07:17 We did.

Joe Rogan 2:07:17 We turned back the Nazis. We defeated them. You know, we stopped, we stopped this takeover of the world by the most evil group that we've ever seen assembled in modern history, and America came back. And there's that photograph, that famous photograph, I guess it's in Times Square, where the, that's, that soldier's kissing that woman. You-

Speaker 2:07:38 That was staged, right?

Joe Rogan 2:07:40 I believe it was-

Speaker 2:07:40 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:07:41 ... unfortunately.

Speaker 2:07:42 Um, 'cause the, the wars after that were muddy.

Joe Rogan 2:07:45 Yeah.

Speaker 2:07:45 It was not like, this is a good guy, this is the bad guy.

Joe Rogan 2:07:47 Exactly.

Speaker 2:07:48 It's like... And then in Vietnam, it's not, you're not taking a hill. You can't- it wasn't about that.

Joe Rogan 2:07:54 Right.

Speaker 2:07:54 It became just the number of casualties, and it was, it's a-

Joe Rogan 2:07:57 Well, also, it didn't- it was a war that didn't make any sense.

Speaker 2:07:59 No, no.

Joe Rogan 2:08:00 We found out later on that it was a war that was started under false pretenses.

Speaker 2:08:04 Sure, but, well, there's, there's been a few of those.

Joe Rogan 2:08:07 But that was the one that's the most obvious. The Gulf, Gulf of Tonkin incident is the most obvious-

Speaker 2:08:12 Mm

Joe Rogan 2:08:12 ... and proven. Like, now it's, it's not a conspiracy theory. They d- staged a false flag. They lied to the American people.

Speaker 2:08:19 Well, that's the same thing Hitler did in-

Joe Rogan 2:08:22 With burning the Reichstag

Speaker 2:08:23 ... Poland. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:08:23 Yeah, yeah.... Did you ever read, uh, Blitzed?

Speaker 2:08:29 No.

Joe Rogan 2:08:29 It's, uh, Norman Ohler wrote about Hitler marching through Poland, and about all the drugs that they were giving people.

Speaker 2:08:35 Oh, yeah, the Pervitin? The p- they would get jacked up on Pervitin.

Joe Rogan 2:08:40 Fucking meth. They had capsules, meth capsules, and the people at the front of the line got the most meth.

Speaker 2:08:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:08:47 They'd, they'd dose people up according to where you were. [chuckles]

Speaker 2:08:51 But they realized that had diminishing returns-

Joe Rogan 2:08:53 Yeah

Speaker 2:08:53 ... because they're just jacked up all the time, and they're not sleeping, and then it just starts falling off.

Joe Rogan 2:08:57 Yeah.

Speaker 2:08:58 But by then they were addicted, and, um-

Joe Rogan 2:09:01 Well, it turns out you could do it for three days and get all the way through Poland.

Speaker 2:09:04 [chuckles] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:09:05 [chuckles] Jesus, that's how they did it.

Speaker 2:09:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:09:07 Three days, no sleep, just... And Hitler was like, "I, I know how we could do it. Just meth everybody up, and have a march."

Speaker 2:09:14 Well, he was taking more drugs than anyone.

Joe Rogan 2:09:16 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:09:17 Just-

Joe Rogan 2:09:18 Well, he had his own doctor that wasn't a part of the SS.

Speaker 2:09:20 Yeah, that shady-ass doctor.

Joe Rogan 2:09:22 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all in the book. The book is fantastic. It's really good because it's just like... And he said that most of what Hitler was on was actually opiates.

Speaker 2:09:33 Y- yeah, Eukanol, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:09:35 I don't know what-

Speaker 2:09:35 Pervitin, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:09:36 Well, Pervitin is a meth, right? It's an amphetamine.

Speaker 2:09:38 Yeah, Pervitin is the meth, but I think Eukanol was an opiate. It can... Well, you... He was on a lot. He was-

Joe Rogan 2:09:46 He was on a lot of shit, yeah

Speaker 2:09:47 ... uh, a lot of different things.

Joe Rogan 2:09:49 Do you know that he also had a genetic anomaly that would lead to his testicles not descending, and-

Speaker 2:09:54 Yeah, I've heard about it

Joe Rogan 2:09:54 ... most like... Yeah, I think it's called Korsman syndrome or something like that. Eukanol-

Speaker 2:10:00 Eukanol.

Joe Rogan 2:10:00 Yeah.

Speaker 2:10:00 Yeah, it was an opiate. He... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:10:03 It's, I think it's called Kallmann syndrome-

Speaker 2:10:06 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:10:06 ... or something like that. Whatever he got... What is it called?

Speaker 2:10:09 Morell was like Elvis's doctor.

Joe Rogan 2:10:13 Yeah. So they got blood from the fabric. What was it called? What was the syndrome called?

Speaker 2:10:25 Micropenis.

Joe Rogan 2:10:26 Yeah, well, the de- definitely, micropenis was the... Kallmann, that's what it is, [claps] Kallmann syndrome. So the, what it was, was they found blood from the couch where supposedly Hitler committed suicide. They took that blood and matched the DNA to Hitler's bloodline.

Speaker 2:10:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:10:42 So they knew it was a male, and they knew the blood came from someone in Hitler's family, so they're reasonably assured that this is Hitler, and then they found out that he had Kallmann syndrome. "So researchers analyzing blood-stained cloth from the sofa where Hitler died, found genetic marker linked to Kallmann syndrome disorder as a form of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which resulted in insufficient production of sex hormones and can prevent or delay puberty." Makes sense.

Speaker 2:11:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:13 Right? Methed-up dude-

Speaker 2:11:15 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:11:15 ... little dick.

Speaker 2:11:16 Tiny dick.

Joe Rogan 2:11:16 No balls.

Speaker 2:11:17 Most evil man in history.

Joe Rogan 2:11:19 Wants, wants to fuck the whole world.

2:11:21 Maybe one ball.

2:11:22 Maybe one ball. Well, he was diagnosed with one undescended testicle. That, that was a, a, a fact from one of his medical reports. One of his testicles was, like, stuck up there.

Speaker 2:11:32 Yeah, it's, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:11:36 A crazy time.

Speaker 2:11:36 He had some, he had some problems. He had some issues.

Joe Rogan 2:11:39 Um-

2:11:39 Yeah.

Speaker 2:11:40 What a fucking monster.

Joe Rogan 2:11:41 Speaking of meth, we, uh, we always talk about this documentary that Johnny had a hand in.

2:11:46 Oh, that's right!

Speaker 2:11:47 Oh, The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia.

Joe Rogan 2:11:49 You... That's r- I fucking love that documentary, dude.

Speaker 2:11:52 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 2:11:53 That documentary was crazy. How did you get involved in... Thank you, Jamie.

2:11:56 Mm-hmm.

2:11:56 How'd you get involved in that?

Speaker 2:11:58 Um, a friend of mine knew Julian Nitzberg, and Julian is the one who found Jesco White. Uh, uh, he, Jes- uh, Julian was doing a- another documentary on, um... Oh, shit. Uh, fuck, I can't remember right now. But they're like, "Hey, do you wanna meet Julian Nitzberg?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And so I talked to Julian, and he told me the story of his being involved with Jesco White, the first docu- you saw the first one, right?

Joe Rogan 2:12:33 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:12:34 Uh-

Joe Rogan 2:12:35 You did more than one?

Speaker 2:12:37 No, no. The first one, uh, Jacob Young did. Uh, Julian Nitzberg found Jesco White, went to Jacob Young and said, "Hey, look at this guy. Look at this character." And it came out on videotape, and if you saw it back in the late '80s, early '90s, it was usually, like, a copied over fourth-

Joe Rogan 2:12:58 Is this the Dancing Outlaw one?

Speaker 2:12:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:13:00 Okay.

Speaker 2:13:00 So that's what Julian-

Joe Rogan 2:13:01 So that's not The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia.

Speaker 2:13:03 No, that was-

Joe Rogan 2:13:03 That was yours, right?

Speaker 2:13:05 Yes, and so I was talking to Julian, and I'm like, "Well, what do you think Jesco's up to now?" He's like, "I don't know." And so we got some money together and sent him to talk to Jesco and his family, and now, because of, uh, just generational neglect and all the young kids coming up, he's like... He was like, you know, the, the wildest one in the family, but now he's, like, the eighth wildest.

Joe Rogan 2:13:36 [laughing]

Speaker 2:13:37 All the younger ones are much, you know, more intense. And we came back with three days of footage, and we're like, "Holy shit!" And I- we show- we cut something together and took it to my friends at MTV, and, uh, they're like, "Yeah, let... Okay, we'll give you some money." They weren't even sure. They're like, "You guys haven't, you know, uh, failed us yet," so they just pushed the money our way, and we came back with that. We were... It was, it was wild.

Joe Rogan 2:14:09 It's a fucking amazing documentary, and-

Speaker 2:14:10 They're a charisma- a charismatic family, a charismatic bunch of outlaws.

Joe Rogan 2:14:16 Yeah, well, they're certainly entertaining, and it's also an untold story about that part of the country and how they've been ravaged by pills.

Speaker 2:14:24 In, in... Well, they've been rav- first of all, they were ravaged by the coal companies-

Joe Rogan 2:14:29 Right

Speaker 2:14:30 ... jacking their town, and then-... you can only buy stuff from the company store, and then when the coal's gone, "Fuck you, we're out of here," and the town's just left, you know, massacred, and then th- with no thought of what happens to those people.

Joe Rogan 2:14:48 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:14:50 And you see how, uh, that can make the Whites and anyone in that area feel, right? And so like, "Oh, the man... We're gonna stick it to the man. The man stuck it to us, we're gonna stick it to the man."

Joe Rogan 2:15:03 Yeah.

Speaker 2:15:04 With, you know, they're all- they all get checks for disability checks, and, you know, they're ... [sighs] I don't know, it's just, it's, it's pretty sad.

Joe Rogan 2:15:13 It's very sad. Entertaining and sad at the same time. Like, it's like you're very conflicted. Like, you wanna laugh at them, but you're also like, "Oh, my God, like, there's kids there. Like, there's, there's families here. They're all fucked up," like the kid doing backflips 'cause he's high on Mountain Dew.

Speaker 2:15:27 Yeah. Yeah, and he's talking about stabbing... I forget which boyfriend of Sue Bob's-

Joe Rogan 2:15:35 Yeah

Speaker 2:15:36 ... or Sue Perks. It's crazy. It's, it was intense.

Joe Rogan 2:15:40 Yeah, but it's both funny and entertaining, but also, like, deeply disturbing at the same time. 'Cause you realize, especially towards the end of the film, where they wanna get out of this life. Like, they're trying to clean up, you know, and she's trying to get off pills, and-

Speaker 2:15:54 Yeah. Yeah. But I... You know, it's tough when you're raised in an environment, and, you know, you don't know how to get out.

Joe Rogan 2:16:07 Right.

Speaker 2:16:07 You haven't-- you don't have those tools.

Joe Rogan 2:16:09 Well, there's no clear path.

Speaker 2:16:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:10 There's no clear path out of there, and everywhere around you is fucked.

Speaker 2:16:14 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:16:15 Everything's fucked. Everyone's fucked. There's no good examples of people that figured it out, got their shit together. There's no one cool uncle that, you know, went straight. There's-

Speaker 2:16:25 Well, there is part of the family that moved to Michigan, and they started flourishing, and I think we-

Joe Rogan 2:16:30 Oh, that's right.

Speaker 2:16:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:31 Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2:16:31 So-

Joe Rogan 2:16:32 That's the movie.

Speaker 2:16:32 But it's, it's... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:35 Fucking hard.

Speaker 2:16:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:37 Yeah.

Speaker 2:16:37 It's hard.

Joe Rogan 2:16:39 Yeah, it's like, I think there's unfor- there's just forgotten sections of our country when it comes to y- just extreme despair and poverty, and just overall, like you said, fucked over by the coal companies, fucked over by pills. Everyone's addicted, everyone's... Just y- like, this long history of crime and-

Speaker 2:17:04 And when you're raised in that continually-

Joe Rogan 2:17:06 Mm-hmm

Speaker 2:17:07 ... it's, it's, how do you see a w- way out? You know, it just... I don't know. It's, it's pretty, pretty sad.

Joe Rogan 2:17:16 Did... But when you filmed it, did you think it was gonna be sad, or did you think it was just gonna be crazy? Like, what-

Speaker 2:17:21 You don't know what you're walking into.

Joe Rogan 2:17:23 Right.

Speaker 2:17:23 You have no idea. Um, uh, so, uh, what came back was... It was v- very impactful, and, and y- you couldn't turn away. It, it just... Yeah, there's a lot of shit that really pulls on your heartstrings, but they're so charismatic, and they have such a, a way about them, it... I don't know. It makes it... Uh, their, their sense of humor, like, helps ease you through it-

Joe Rogan 2:18:03 Yeah

Speaker 2:18:03 ... about the situation, but still, it's a situation.

Joe Rogan 2:18:06 Did you take them to the premiere or anything? Did any of them-

Speaker 2:18:09 We, uh, we [chuckles] we flew, uh, Jesco and Mamie in for, uh, the premiere, and I remember I... He, he was going to tap dance at the, uh, premiere, and he's got his tap shoes, which were, uh, his father, D. Ray White's tap shoes. They're... I was... And they're just in a plastic pharmace- pharmaceutical bag, but I dropped them when I got out of the car, and I was just har- I was just like, "I feel..." I felt terrible. But, uh, they're characters. They... It was pretty wild meeting Jesco and Mamie. That's my friend Storm I grew up with. He helped produce. I remember me, Jesco, White, and Mike Judge just sitting in a bar before, having drinks.

Joe Rogan 2:19:07 Oh, Mike Judge was involved in this, too?

Speaker 2:19:09 No, no, he's just a friend of mine, and he was like, "I wanna meet Jesco and Mamie."

Joe Rogan 2:19:13 I love that guy.

Speaker 2:19:14 Yeah, he's-

Joe Rogan 2:19:14 Mike Judge is cool as fuck.

Speaker 2:19:15 He's so talented.

Joe Rogan 2:19:17 Yeah, very, very talented.

Speaker 2:19:18 So bright.

Joe Rogan 2:19:19 Yeah.

Speaker 2:19:19 The man was an engineer starting out, then a musician, and he, he's, uh, he's an interesting character.

Joe Rogan 2:19:27 Very, very interesting guy. But, like, w- how did they react to the film and, and watching people watch them and laughing and going crazy?

Speaker 2:19:37 They, they... And for... I mean, at the premiere, they seemed... They really enjoyed it. [laughs] You know, it's like, it's a big thing-

Joe Rogan 2:19:46 Right

Speaker 2:19:46 ... you see yourself up on screen. I, I know the, the subject matter is, is tough, but I don't know. That's, that's their life, right? They're not surprised by anything.

Joe Rogan 2:19:56 Right.

Speaker 2:19:57 It's just, you know.

Joe Rogan 2:19:59 What happened with them after th- the film?

Speaker 2:20:03 Uh-

Joe Rogan 2:20:04 Do you follow up on them?

Speaker 2:20:05 Every now and then, Joyuno will send me something. One of them will be in the news for, uh, this or that. Uh, you know, I, I haven't, I d- I haven't-

Joe Rogan 2:20:16 Sue Bob's on TikTok with her daughter, it looks like

Speaker 2:20:16 ... stayed in touch. I never, I didn't stay in touch. What'd you say, Jamie?

Joe Rogan 2:20:19 That Sue Bob's on TikTok with her daughter or son. [chuckles] Oh, boy. [chuckles] So- Is Sue Bob talking about her?

Speaker 2:20:23 Sue Bob's got the best voice.

Joe Rogan 2:20:24 Yeah. She's all, "I was always the sexy one." [laughing]

Speaker 2:20:27 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:20:28 Yeah.

Speaker 2:20:29 Like, how do you even get that voice? [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:20:31 That's crazy.

Speaker 2:20:32 Yeah, what a voice.

Joe Rogan 2:20:34 Have you ever thought about doing a follow-up?

Speaker 2:20:36 It... I, I d- I... Someone else can. I don't, I don't-... we, we did it, and I think we moved on. I, I think at some point, it's a little much-

Joe Rogan 2:20:49 Yeah

Speaker 2:20:49 ... to go back to that well.

Joe Rogan 2:20:51 Right.

Speaker 2:20:51 I, I don't feel, I don't, I don't feel right about it.

Joe Rogan 2:20:53 Right, a little exploitative, yeah.

Speaker 2:20:55 I don't feel right about it. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:20:56 Yeah, that makes sense. Do you do... Do you have aspirations to do other stuff? Do you have, like, any other things that you're trying to do?

Speaker 2:21:05 Uh, y- well, I mean, in, uh, the film world, sure. Um, uh, so there's a... I have a lot of pro- I, I love doing documentaries. I have a couple of documentaries I'm trying to get off the ground. Um, and you know, well, one on David Allan Coe, who's, who Julian Nitzberg was going to direct. Do you know who David Allan Coe is?

Joe Rogan 2:21:34 Yeah.

Speaker 2:21:34 He's a country singer-songwriter who's, like, was the... He, from the age of nine to 35, he was institutionalized. You know, his parents just kinda, he was too much, and they put him in the boys' home. And he was the head of the Outlaw Motorcycle Gang for a while. He, uh, had eight or nine wives for a while. He-

Joe Rogan 2:22:03 At the same time?

Speaker 2:22:03 ... formed his... Yeah, at the same time. [laughing] He formed, he formed his own religion. He wrote his own rel- his, you know, wrote a book. Uh, he, he was a m- and, oh, the best! I have to show you a picture. In... And he also wrote some racist songs while he was in prison, and Shel Silverstein convinced him to record those when he got out. Uh, I turned my phone off.

Joe Rogan 2:22:30 Shel Silverstein, the guy who wrote children's books?

Speaker 2:22:33 And, uh, A Boy Named Sue, and on the cover of the Rolling Stone. Shel Silverstein wrote a lot of songs.

Joe Rogan 2:22:40 Wow!

Speaker 2:22:41 And, and he convinced... A couple of the songs are, you know, racist, and can't really, there's no defense to them. He's lived a very complicated life, but in the '80s, he decided, "I'm gonna become a magician."

Joe Rogan 2:22:58 [chuckles]

Speaker 2:22:58 And I have a picture of him with his ven- and, and a ventriloquist, and I'll, I'll show it to you in a second. It's pretty... Uh, he's the most frightening fucking ventriloquist you've ever seen.

Joe Rogan 2:23:10 [laughing]

Speaker 2:23:11 Like... And, and the weird thing is, uh, the, the magicians, uh, Penn and Teller, credit him as one of their influences. Um-

Joe Rogan 2:23:22 Is that him with his dummy? No, it's Terry Allen, actually.

Speaker 2:23:25 Okay, let me, uh, find it real quick. So it's an incredible story, but it's just hard getting, uh, something like that made now, for people who aren't wanting to... Okay, come on. I'm, I'm bringing up... So it's, we're trying to tell that story. Um-

Joe Rogan 2:23:48 And so just whatever just strikes your interest, like things that you find fascinating? [laughing]

Speaker 2:23:57 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:23:59 Can I AirDrop this to Jamie?

Speaker 2:24:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:24:01 How do I do this? Here we go.

Speaker 2:24:02 And his son, Tyler Coe, does that podcast, Cocaine and Rhinestones. It's a brilliant podcast. His, his son's really sharp. Friend of mine.

Joe Rogan 2:24:09 It says, "AirDrop code required." And so th- that's how you decide things, just based on, like, what's interesting? Just like, seems cool-

Speaker 2:24:18 Yeah, I don't know what else to decide things.

Joe Rogan 2:24:20 Look at that. [chuckles]

Speaker 2:24:21 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:24:21 David Allan Coe! Look at this belt buckle. Look at that belt buckle.

Speaker 2:24:25 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:24:27 What a scary-looking dude with a dummy.

Speaker 2:24:30 His, his son, Tyler, is like, "I thought that thing was real when I was growing up," you know, it's... 'cause he-

Joe Rogan 2:24:37 Yeah

Speaker 2:24:37 ... made it seem that way.

Joe Rogan 2:24:39 Well, there's a weird connection between a really good ventriloquist and their dummy that gets very odd.

Speaker 2:24:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:24:44 You know? It's like in the Twilight Zone episode, where the, the guy has the dummy. Did you ever see that?

Speaker 2:24:49 No.

Joe Rogan 2:24:50 Oh, it's great. It's a Twilight Zone episode where the dummy and the guy are having conversations when no one's around. The dummy i- is alive, and then I think the dummy kills the guy, and then... Um, but I had a, a guy that I used to work with way back in the day. His name was Otto and George, and, uh, he was a ventriloquist comedy act. And, uh, George was the dummy, and Otto was the guy, and Otto would be like, "I can't believe you're saying these things!"

Speaker 2:25:18 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:25:18 And George would say, like, really fucked up... And George was a evil-looking dummy with, like, crazy eyebrows. He was a legend, like a comedy legend. That's Otto and George.

Speaker 2:25:27 Oh, wow!

Joe Rogan 2:25:28 Yeah.

Speaker 2:25:29 They were a little too close?

Joe Rogan 2:25:30 It was a little close. Like, he would be driving in the car, and George would be in the trunk, and he would tell the guy driving, "Pull over. I gotta check on George."

Speaker 2:25:39 Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:25:39 Like, like he felt like he had to pull over and talk to the dummy. And he'd get out by the side of the road, pop open the trunk, and you'd hear him back there, like, just fucking around with the dummy, like looking at it, talking to it. Then he'd put it back in and drive off. Like, he would get in his head that the dummy was, needed to be checked on.

Speaker 2:25:59 How does a guy like that operate in life? D- I mean, did it-

Joe Rogan 2:26:02 He's dead now, unfortunately.

Speaker 2:26:03 Well, [chuckles] I mean, w-

Joe Rogan 2:26:04 Uh, he was a-

Speaker 2:26:04 We all end up that way.

Joe Rogan 2:26:06 He partied hard.

Speaker 2:26:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:26:08 Like, he had, uh... He was an enthusiast. Um-

Speaker 2:26:12 Relationships?

Joe Rogan 2:26:14 Uh, I don't know. I mean, I never heard about him being married or anything like that.

Speaker 2:26:18 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:26:18 I don't believe he had any children. But he was nuts. He was like... It was a n- like, I never got to know him all that well. It was al- I worked with him a ton of times, but it was always like... And he's like, "Hey, Joe, how are you?" You know, he'd have his dummy there, but you would just... Everybody would go to the back of the room when Otto would go on stage. We'd all wanna watch.

Speaker 2:26:38 I- i- that was his relationship, the dummy.

Joe Rogan 2:26:41 Well, that was... You know, I don't know if he had other relationships, but that was a big one. And one time, uh, he was, uh, he, he was going back and forth with some guy in the audience, and the dummy was saying horrible things to this guy, and the guy stabbed the dummy.

Speaker 2:26:53 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:26:53 The guy jumped up on stage and stabbed the dummy.

Speaker 2:26:57 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:26:59 ... It was at Dangerfield's. Yeah, I think it was at Dangerfield's.

Speaker 2:27:03 What a-

Joe Rogan 2:27:03 Yeah

Speaker 2:27:03 ... a brilliant move.

Joe Rogan 2:27:05 Yeah.

Speaker 2:27:05 That's inspired.

Joe Rogan 2:27:07 Yeah, I mean, he was a part of the program. The guy was a part of the performance.

Speaker 2:27:11 He jumped up and stabbed the dummy.

Joe Rogan 2:27:13 Stabbed his dummy. 'Cause he would just have wild shit.

Speaker 2:27:14 That's probably worse than stabbing him, you know?

Joe Rogan 2:27:16 Yeah.

Speaker 2:27:16 I'm- he's heartbroken.

Joe Rogan 2:27:17 Well, I mean, you know, I'm sh- assuming the guy was doing it for fun, but unless he thought the dummy was actually the problem. [laughing]

Speaker 2:27:29 [laughing] That critical thinking.

Joe Rogan 2:27:31 I think they're do- I, I think they're actually doing a documentary on Otto and George. I think there's-

Speaker 2:27:36 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:27:36 Yeah, I think someone's working on that right now, so that'll be interesting.

Speaker 2:27:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:27:41 He was a, he was a legend on the East Coast during the 1980s and the 1990s. Like, we all knew Otto and George.

Speaker 2:27:48 Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:27:49 Yeah.

Speaker 2:27:49 I, I completely missed that.

Joe Rogan 2:27:50 Yeah, but, you know, like a lot of people that are brilliant, he was out of his fucking mind and never really got traction in terms of, like, a real national career. But he was very funny-

Speaker 2:27:59 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:27:59 ... and a really good joke writer. He was a funny guy.

Speaker 2:28:01 Yeah. Yeah, 'cause they don't have that little extra side of them to-

Joe Rogan 2:28:07 Business part.

Speaker 2:28:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:28:08 The business part was missing.

Speaker 2:28:09 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:28:10 Yeah. He was just, just a maniacal genius. [laughing]

Speaker 2:28:14 [laughing] I, I, I have something to do after this.

Joe Rogan 2:28:17 Yeah.

Speaker 2:28:17 I'm gonna look up Otto and George.

Joe Rogan 2:28:19 Yeah, it's something to look up. Uh, listen, man, good luck on Fear Factor.

Speaker 2:28:23 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 2:28:24 I hope it runs another 148 episodes, just like when we did it back in the day, and I hope nobody gets hurt.

Speaker 2:28:30 Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate you having me on.

Joe Rogan 2:28:32 Oh, my pleasure. It's gr- great to meet you, man. You've entertained the fuck out of me over the years-

Speaker 2:28:36 Thank you

Joe Rogan 2:28:37 ... and given me a lot of anxiety as well. [laughing]

Speaker 2:28:39 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:28:39 I'm glad you're okay-

Speaker 2:28:40 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:28:40 ... for the most part.

Speaker 2:28:40 Thanks, man.

Joe Rogan 2:28:41 Well, thanks for doing this.

Speaker 2:28:42 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 2:28:42 Uh, and tell everybody, when does it air? When does Fear Factor start?

Speaker 2:28:45 I, uh, premieres tomorrow. Oh, no, excuse me, premieres tonight, the 14th.

Joe Rogan 2:28:49 Right. Okay, beautiful.

Speaker 2:28:50 Sorry, I've been on a whirlwind kind of thing, so it's on tonight.

Joe Rogan 2:28:53 Awesome.

Speaker 2:28:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:28:54 Awesome. All right.

Speaker 2:28:55 So-

Joe Rogan 2:28:55 Well, good luck.

Speaker 2:28:56 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 2:28:56 Thank you. All right, bye, everybody. [upbeat outro music]