EVERY SPOKEN WORD
135 min read · 27,169 words- 0:00 – 0:02
Intro
- SPSpeaker
[upbeat music]
- 0:02 – 1:20
Meeting judo legend Gene LeBell (and the culture of getting choked out)
- SPSpeaker
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day! [upbeat music]
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah, he's the dude who said, "Fuck you," all day, and he choked you to sleep.
- SPSpeaker
Oh. [laughing] I would pay for to see that.
- JRJoe Rogan
How did you meet judo Gene LeBell?
- SPSpeaker
I met him first on Men in Black II.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, he was-
- SPSpeaker
He was a stuntman.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, okay.
- SPSpeaker
A stunt- And, uh, people would... The stunt people would line up outside his trailer, so they, uh... So he would choke them out.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
And he would give you that little-- he would give you a patch afterwards. "You've been choked out by judo Gene LeBell."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, God. [groans] He had all those cartoonish patches.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He'd, like, give you a bunch of those. He's a character, man.
- SPSpeaker
He, uh... One guy, I saw one, uh, the stuntman, right before Gene choked him out, he goes, "One second," this Irish dude. And he, and he turned around, and he slapped Gene in the face. And Gene's like... "Okay."
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
And then, w- after Gene choked him, they were standing up, Gene just dropped him- [laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh!
- SPSpeaker
... straight to the ground for slapping him. [laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
Ooh. You can get hurt like that.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, well, that's what you get for slapping Gene LeBell.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, don't slap him. Give him a kiss. Kiss him on the cheek before he chokes you out.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, God.
- 1:20 – 3:09
Early MMA lore: Gene LeBell vs. Milo Savage and the reality of grappling
- JRJoe Rogan
Don't slap him. [laughing] Do you remember, he had one of the very first ever mixed martial arts fights.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah, it was the... He fought-
- JRJoe Rogan
Milo Savage.
- SPSpeaker
Yes!
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
And didn't Milo Savage grease himself up-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh
- SPSpeaker
... beforehand?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah. But also, G- Gene was wearing a gi, which kinda negates most of the, the grease-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... 'cause you're wearing this, like, very friction-y gi. So he grabbed him.
- SPSpeaker
And where was... I guess the rumor was Milo Savage's gloves were loaded?
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, I don't know. I would do that, though, if I was Milo Savage. [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, get away with it.
- SPSpeaker
I would have some kind of weapon against Gene LeBell.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, most people that have never grappled a guy like that, they... You don't have any idea how helpless you actually are until, like... You think, "I'll be able to push him away from me."
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
"I'll be able to push him away and get some punches off." You really don't know until that guy grabs you, and it's like being grabbed by an orangutan.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, 'cause his mom ran the Grand Olympic Auditorium, right? And he grew up training with all the disciplines of fighters that came through there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he definitely knew pretty much everything. He knew a lot, but, you know, obviously, he was a judo specialist. But he's the guy who taught Bruce Lee about the importance of grappling.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, 'cause he worked with him on The Green Hornet?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, he wor- I think he worked with him on that. Um, but when he locked up with Bruce Lee, like, Bruce Lee was like, "Oh, okay, I'm helpless."
- SPSpeaker
[chuckles]
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, apparently, the story is that Gene picked him up and carried him around over his shoulder. And then Bruce Lee was like, "Okay, fuck this."
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause, like, Gene was a light... I think he was a light heavyweight judo champion, so, I mean, he's probably at least 190 pounds. And, you know, Bruce Lee was a pretty small guy.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And Gene just grabbed him.
- SPSpeaker
His face just looked like a catcher's mitt.
- 3:09 – 4:21
Cauliflower ear, “earning it,” and why people fake toughness
- SPSpeaker
And always check out a guy's ears before you talk shit with him.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing] Yes.
- SPSpeaker
If they have that, uh, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Cauliflower?
- SPSpeaker
... cauliflower ear, just buy him a drink or give him a hug.
- JRJoe Rogan
But doesn't Steve-O have that? Didn't he get it from, like... Didn't he have Jon Jones fuck his ears up?
- SPSpeaker
He tried to get it. I don't know if it happened. We, you know, we tried to do... I tried to do that to, uh, the director, Jeff Tremaine, on Jackass Number Two. Every time someone would walk past him, they would grab his ear and twist, and we were just hoping it would cauliflower up by the end of the film, but it didn't. Um, you gotta earn that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. There's a lot of guys who fake it, though. I know a lot of jujitsu guys who fake it. They have guys fuck their ears up on purpose-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
... 'cause they wanna look cool.
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
It's kinda weak.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, that's... You gotta earn it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's, uh, it's like Robert De Niro in that movie where he wouldn't take Viagra, remember? "A hard-on should be earned."
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
"It should be had legitimately or not at all."
- SPSpeaker
The old-fashioned way, with eye contact.
- JRJoe Rogan
There was some... Wasn't that some weird movie where he was going... He was a mob boss, but he was going to a shrink, and he couldn't get it up? [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
Oh!
- JRJoe Rogan
Remember that movie?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Was it Billy Crystal was the sh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah
- SPSpeaker
... the shrink?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I don't remember the name of it, but yeah, I know what you're talking about.
- 4:21 – 7:48
Knoxville’s surreal career and the desperate origin story of Jackass
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude, you've had a wild ride in, in life, you know what I mean? You've, you've done a lot of crazy shit, not just, like, with Jackass, but you became a movie star, and, you know, like, w- what has this been like for you?
- SPSpeaker
Um, sometimes it feels like you're living someone else's life, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Imposter syndrome?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, a little. And, um, I'm s- I'm extremely grateful, especially for a guy with my limited education. I get the joke, what I would be doing if I didn't fall into what I'm doing. So, uh, yeah, it's pretty surreal. I just keep trying to move forward.
- JRJoe Rogan
How did you guys get started with Jackass? How did, how did all that come to bear?
- SPSpeaker
Um, well, I... The short answer is my then girlfriend got pregnant, and I had a daughter on the way, and I was... I'd moved to LA to act, but I wasn't doing anything, man. I was drinking a lot and, um... And then I'm like, "Oh, shit, I have to support a daughter. I need to do something quick." So I, I was living next door to Antoine Fuqua in this duplex, the director.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- SPSpeaker
And he set me up with a casting director, who got me a commercial agent. My friend, John Lenson, uh, set me up with writing articles for this magazine, and, 'cause he knew I wanted to write. And one of the articles turned into me testing self-defense equipment on myself.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
And a lot of different magazines wanted the article, but they didn't want anything to do with it because I was gonna shoot myself in the chest with a bulletproof vest-... as the last thing. It was, like, stun gun, taser gun, pepper spray. And Jeff Tremaine, who now directs Jackass, he was the editor of Big Brother Magazine, a skateboarding magazine owned by Larry Flynt. And he goes, "You can write it for us, and I'll help you buy a couple of the things, and the stun gun, and the taser gun." And I took the money my mom gave me for Christmas and bought the cheapest bulletproof vest they had for the last thing, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't wanna skimp on a bulletproof vest.
- SPSpeaker
I... That's all, that's all I could afford.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well-
- SPSpeaker
It was either no stun gun or taser gun, and, um, so anyway-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well-
- SPSpeaker
... Jeff says, "Hey, why don't you film that article that you're writing, and we'll put it in our skateboard video?" And it kind of snowballed from there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, so that was the genesis of it.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow! Isn't it weird how, like, desperation or, like, the recognition that, like, oh, you have responsibilities, like, you gotta get going, just lights a fire under your ass? You become, like, a totally different person.
- SPSpeaker
It was like... I deal with a certain amount of overcoming fear or whatever when doing the stunts, but there was never any fear, like, "You have a daughter on the way, and you have to figure out how to support her."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I was... I had to do something quick, and that was my best guess.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's the mother of invention, man.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That, that necessity-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... understanding. Like, being a dad and having to take care of people, it just changes everything.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, like, "What am I doing?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
"I, I... You know what I'm doing? I'm doing fucking nothing, and I need to do something."
- 7:48 – 10:36
The bulletproof vest stunt: shooting himself with a .38 (and chaos on location)
- JRJoe Rogan
But [chuckles] what, but what, when you're doing this... Like, first of all, what round, what caliber of revolver did you get shot with?
- SPSpeaker
Well, the vest was the cheapest one, so it could take a .38, and I got a .38.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well-
- SPSpeaker
I borrowed it from my neighbor's wife. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus Christ! [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
There wasn't a lot of pre-production on this, Joe.
- JRJoe Rogan
How far away were you when you got shot?
- SPSpeaker
Like, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh!
- SPSpeaker
Well, my, my buddy was supposed to shoot me, but we just... We drove out to 14 and... 'Cause we didn't have a location, and I'm like, "Pull off here." And then we pull off this exit, and I'm like, "Okay, make a right," and we ended up on a fire road. So we get out there, and my friend's like, "I, I'm not gonna shoot you, man. I can't do it." I'm like, "Well-"
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
So I'm like, "All right, well, give me the gun."
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And [laughs] I'm, um, I'm sh- I got the gun to my chest, and a car pulls up behind me, and it's a bunch of tweakers. They're driving down the fire road. They're like, "H- how do we get to the freeway?" And I got the gun behind my back, and I'm like, "Hey, you just go down here and make a right, then a left." Uh, and they drove away, and so I went back to shooting myself.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
It was sketchy. It looked like a snuff film, the, the... Because my friends are, m- my... The photographer on it saw his buddy die 'cause he jumped off a hotel trying to hit a swimming pool and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh!
- SPSpeaker
... didn't hit that swimming pool, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, God
- SPSpeaker
... so he was really scared, right? He was like, "Stop, don't do this. Don't do this. Stop."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- SPSpeaker
I wasn't getting a lot of positive reinforcement, Joe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it doesn't seem like it.
- SPSpeaker
[chuckles] And I had a bunch of, uh... 'Cause since it was Flint Magazine, I had a bunch of, uh, Hustlers under the bulletproof vest to help absorb the impact.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And at one point, they all fall out, and I bend over to pick them up, and I'm pointing the gun right at my friends as I pick them up. I don't realize this, but it was sketchy.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that was the first?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, we put that in the Big Brother video.
- JRJoe Rogan
Had you ever done anything, like, self-harming, any dangerous type activities before you started Jackass, before you started doing all this kind of shit?
- SPSpeaker
N- no, no. I didn't even know what self... I mean-
- 10:36 – 13:42
Close calls that could’ve killed him (bulls, rockets, and the falling wall)
- JRJoe Rogan
And so that was the first one, and then h- how, how many times have you done a stunt where you're like, "This, I could die"?
- SPSpeaker
A few.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, you've done... Like, the bull one, where you're blindfolded-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, right.
- JRJoe Rogan
I w- I watched... I was like, "Don't do that." I was watching that. I was like, "This is crazy."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, that was a... Yeah, that was... Anytime you're working with a bull, I think that, uh, they hate you, and... Well, really, they hate movement, and they wanna make you stop moving [chuckles] forever. And, um... But I've had, you know, I mean, like in the Jackass Number Two, when the rocket exploded, those were foot-long metal rods, and there was 12 of them. One blew out right next to my ribs, which would've been picture wrap on me, and one flew back 300 yards and split two of our, uh, art guys right between them.
- JRJoe Rogan
[exhales]
- SPSpeaker
That would've... It was... We've had some really close ones. I tried to do the Buster Keaton thing in number two, where the facade falls-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh
- SPSpeaker
... and it falls right... The window falls over my head. That was the plan, and the guy's like, "Okay, when it's on..." 'Cause it was the, it was the close, right, of the movie, and the guy's like, "This is a 20-foot steel wall. Like, you hit your mark, do not move." I'm like, "Got it." And they said, "Action!" And then, so I take two steps, and-... They're like, "Ah, no, no, cut, cut." So I just like, "Oh, okay, I'm gonna walk over here," and they'd already released the wall.
- JRJoe Rogan
[gasps]
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, and if you watch the footage, it crushes me to the ground, but my head just makes it through the window, otherwise that would've been... I would've been done.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, geez, dude.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Yeah. [laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, my God.
- SPSpeaker
That was a close one.
- JRJoe Rogan
God.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
How heavy was that fucking thing?
- SPSpeaker
I don't... It was a 20-foot steel wall. It was, it was incredibly heavy.
- JRJoe Rogan
How bad did you get fucked up from that?
- SPSpeaker
I... Nothing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Nothing?
- SPSpeaker
I'm like, I- it was, it was a, a... Like, I was very lucky. I'm also hyper-limber, so it just, I kinda accordioned when, on impact.
- JRJoe Rogan
Just dumb luck.
- SPSpeaker
Dumb [chuckles] and it's story of my life.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing] How many... It's all, I mean, all told, how many stunts have you done like that?
- SPSpeaker
Oh, I haven't... Oh, the almost, almost-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... kaput? Ah, I, I, I don't know. Like, there's at least six or seven, like, close calls, and then, and then any number of stunts that can go wrong, you know? I don't know. I don't really... I just look forward. [chuckles]
- 13:42 – 15:21
Escalation pressure, set anxiety, and the “just be funny” mindset
- JRJoe Rogan
Was there ever a time when you're doing this and going, "What the fuck have I got myself into?"
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, 'cause you have to keep up, one-upping yourself, right?
- SPSpeaker
Um, well, that was a problem for me after we did the first movie. Uh, I didn't wanna do a second movie because I didn't know how to top the first one, which now looks very tame compared to the others. And finally, uh, Tremaine said, "You don't, we don't have to top it. We just have to be funny." And I'm like, "Okay." That made me free. That, I... It took away all my anxiety, and I thought, "Okay, if, if that's the case..." And a couple months later, he, he told me he was lying, and we did have to top it, but it, by that time, I was already off and running.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus, dude.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Your show would really give me anxiety.
- SPSpeaker
[chuckles] It gives the guys an- they, they, they get really anxious because I know 98.5% of what's happening on the set. Like, Jeff and I each, we keep a little from each other, so if we wanna smoke one another, so-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
... But the guys don't have any idea what's happening. [laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
So by the second week, you can just literally go up and put your finger on someone's shoulder, and they're like, "Jesus!" [laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
They're so, so nervous, and I, and I, I don't blame them.
- 15:21 – 18:11
The stunt intervention and the aborted Olympic ski jump (without knowing how to ski)
- JRJoe Rogan
And, like, when you film one of those movies, like, how long is a shoot? Like, how, how many m- months do you film for?
- SPSpeaker
Well, that depends. On Jackass Number Two... Usually, about, we go two weeks on, two weeks off over four, five months, but I think Jackass Number Two, it was eight or nine months.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
And finally, they had to have an intervention with me to stop shooting.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
They, "Hey, like, come down to the office tomorrow. We're gonna finalize the edit or, or do something in the edit." I'm like, "All right," and I get there, and it's Spike, Jeff, a few of the cast, and, uh, and they're like, "We're, we're not here to talk about the edit." I'm like, "Okay." "Like, we have to stop shooting. We're, like, so far over." And then it was also about I was going to do the ski jump. You know, the Olympic ski jump, and it was, uh... They're like: "You... We have too much footage. You can't. Let's just not... You've already put yourself on the line so much, you can't." And, and then it became like, well, I'm not... I didn't... I, I decided not to because I felt like this big intervention, they had... It was, like, doomed. The stunt was doomed in my mind then, that something negative was gonna happen. So I ended up not doing the, the ski jump, but I did negotiate two more weeks of shooting out of them.
- JRJoe Rogan
[chuckles] How far were you supposed to jump?
- SPSpeaker
It's... Until I went kaboom. I don't know. It was going to be a, the Olympic ski jump.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, when they fly?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And do you know how to ski?
- SPSpeaker
Not at all.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ugh! [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
[laughing] Yeah, I don't wanna be good at the stunt.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-
- SPSpeaker
Nobody wants to see that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I mean, you'd have to train for years to be good at it, but I mean, I was just-
- SPSpeaker
I, I had about 20 minutes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- SPSpeaker
So that didn't happen, but, um, uh, I don't even know how we got on this. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
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- SPSpeaker
Ooh, wow.
- 18:11 – 22:18
Concussions and the Jackass Forever bullring crash (hemorrhage, broken bones)
- JRJoe Rogan
But, uh, so are you done with all that stuff, or would you consider doing it again?
- SPSpeaker
Well, I k-... I can't do any stunt where I would get a concussion now, because I've had too many. The last one was really gnarly. Uh, I kinda went offline for a while, and, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
What one was that?
- SPSpeaker
In, at the end of, in Jackass Forever, I dressed up as a magician, and I got obsessed with the idea of pranking an animal. Uh, I just wanted, uh, the thought of seeing the animal's reaction after the prank, and that kinda, uh, morphed into me dressing as a magician in a bullring, doing the, uh, pouring the milk in the hat trick to get the bull's reaction. And apparently, the, the bull didn't think much of my trick, 'cause it, uh, it... Well, first of all, u- usually when you're working with a bull in a ring, there's a lot of soft dirt around, you know? And I got there that morning, and it was, it was just dirt, but no so- it was like concrete. And I thought to myself, "Well, that's a problem," and, but we're there. We need... I, I'm shooting. So anyway, long story short, the bull, the bull hits me, and I... U- usually, when a bull hits you, well, always, they drop their head, right? So I always try to jump a split second before it hits me, so I get a- above the bull as opposed to the bu- below the bull, which is never any fun. So, but I mistime my jump. I jump too early, so I jumped, and then I start coming back down, and then the bull hits me, and it flips me, like... I do, like, a one and a half flip, and the only thing that stops me is the back of the head, my back of my head [inhales] hitting the, uh, concrete ground.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, dude!
- SPSpeaker
And I got a concussion with a brain hemorrhage, a broken rib, and a broken wrist out of the deal.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that was it.
- SPSpeaker
And yeah, it was, it was so-
- JRJoe Rogan
And this is after you let Butterbean KO you, too.
- SPSpeaker
Lucky punch. [laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing] That fucking dude hit so hard! I watched that, and I was like, "Don't let that happen."
- SPSpeaker
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
Don't do that.
- SPSpeaker
He d- like, everyone's like, "Boy, that knockout punch must've hurt." I'm like, "I didn't even feel it." Like, the punches before really hurt, [chuckles] but the knockout punch, you don't... You, y- you've been knocked out before, you don't feel it. [laughing] Um, that one was a pretty bad concussion, too. Um, I had vertigo for six to eight weeks after that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Gee!
- SPSpeaker
Just driving around a curve, everything starts spinning.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, did you go to a hospital and get checked out?
- SPSpeaker
Well, I went to see my doctor, Dr. Kipper, and he, uh, s- he had to sew up my head because I fell back onto the hard ground of the swap meet. And my, I, I, I think I hit my head on the corner of a display counter as well. I, I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fuck, dude.
- SPSpeaker
Should've went to college.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing] Uh, do, do you ever feel any responsibility for how many people you inspire to do similar things?
- SPSpeaker
Um, well, I hope to just entertain them and not inspire them, but, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it has to be-
- SPSpeaker
I can't... I don't have any control over that, es- uh, except for when I do things like this, like, just watch, don't do. Uh, I, I don't want anyone to get hurt. I, you know, me, I'm another story.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's kind of amazing that you're okay, you know, other than the bad concussions.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty okay with how it turned out.
- 22:18 – 26:38
Long-term damage: back pain procedures and Rogan’s rehab equipment recommendations
- JRJoe Rogan
What, what, what's the worst injury that anybody ever suffered during Jackass filming?
- SPSpeaker
Um, [tsks] wow! There's been many concussions, breaks. Uh, um, I, I don't know, just lot... The arm breaks, back breaks.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you have any, like, long-term problems because of it?
- SPSpeaker
Um, my lower back is pretty blown out. Um, and who knows about, [scoffs] uh, how the concussions will, uh, rectify themselves? Um, hopefully, I'm okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you feel any lingering effects?
- SPSpeaker
Well, my lower back's blown out, so I, I just had a Intracept procedure on my back about on, in-
- JRJoe Rogan
What's that?
- SPSpeaker
... early December. They're, they go, the, the nerve and the vertebra, uh, they go in and, like, somehow use, uh, radiofrequency heat to basically burn the nerve so it-
- JRJoe Rogan
So you don't feel anything?
- SPSpeaker
... can't send the signal to your brain that it's hurt.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, so you just walk around hurt, but you don't feel it?
- SPSpeaker
I don't know. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- SPSpeaker
I'm fine with that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it doing continual damage, or is it just pain?
- SPSpeaker
I think it, uh, it seems to be, uh... And that's an excellent question that I did not ask- [laughing] ... nor did I care about, but thank you for bringing it up. I think, uh, to me, it's just pain, so I, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jesus. Have you done anything else for it? Like, there's a bunch of different... Well, is it a, a herniated disc? Is it a-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, the, the lower two discs are herniated, and, uh, I had, uh, shots in the facet joints of my lower, uh, back. It was like they put some kind of steroid in there, and it didn't give the result that I wanted. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
... Have you ever heard of a machine called a reverse hyper?
- SPSpeaker
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a machine that a guy named Louie Simmons, he was this, uh, legendary powerlifter guy. He developed because he had, uh, fucked his discs up powerlifting, and the doctors told him that he needed to fuse his disc-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... because they were compressed. And he's like, "Well, can't we decompress them?" And they're like, "No, there's no way." He's like, "Well, there's gotta be a way." So he developed a machine that decompresses the spine while also strengthening the muscles around it. It's a piece of exercise. That's Louie. Uh, he developed this machine-
- SPSpeaker
Looks like something that happened to, uh, uh, Ving Rhames in Pulp Fiction. [laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
The, well, that, that's, it... What does the machine do? It strengthens and-
- JRJoe Rogan
You see, on the way up, when she's lifting with her legs, it's strengthening her back, and on the s- the down swing, it's actively decompressing your back. So it, like, pulls the discs apart and creates space. I love this machine.
- SPSpeaker
Wow!
- JRJoe Rogan
I have one at home. I have one here at the studio. I use it all the time. It's really a, an important piece of equipment for anybody that has a lower back injury or who wants to prevent lower back injuries, and just for overall strength, 'cause it's a very odd movement to be able to recreate.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, great. Well, I'm gonna look into that because-
- 26:38 – 38:25
Fear Factor behind the scenes: stunts, near disasters, and the infamous “donkey cum” cancellation
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, man, you gotta, you gotta prevent. So how the fuck did they talk you into hosting Fear Factor? How'd that happen? [chuckles]
- SPSpeaker
Um, I met with, uh, Sharon Levy, who runs Endemol.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know Sharon.
- SPSpeaker
And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Shout out to Sharon Levy.
- SPSpeaker
She's awesome. And I, I was like, "I'm on, I'm on the fence," you know? I... [clears throat] And I sat down with her, and I liked her so much, 'cause she seems like... Like, how did a woman like you, that's, is, like, awesome, uh, get a job as the head of... You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
She seems very rebellious.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
And I just thought, "Yeah, I'm in." So, uh, it happened over a lunch.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I really liked her.
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, one of the problems that we had with Fear Factor is we did 148 episodes initially, and then we came back for a brief amount of time, but they wanted to really ramp it up. Like, it was like, "The, these stunts are gonna be bigger and crazier than ever," and I was relieved when it got canceled, 'cause I was like, "We're gonna fuck somebody up."
- SPSpeaker
I... Yeah, you felt... What, what kind of, uh... Well, you have a couple of examples or-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there was a bunch in the early days. Like, first, the first one that we ever did, where I was like, "Don't do this"-
- SPSpeaker
[chuckles]
- JRJoe Rogan
... was bull riding. We made people bull ride, and this one lady was like... She probably weighed, like, 98 pounds.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And she got on the back of the bull, I'm like, "She's not gonna be able to hang on at all. She's gonna go flying." It was hilarious. The stunt guys are some of the most savage-
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
... fucking psychotic, zero fear at all for their safety.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, they get so hardened by it over time-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... that they're just not normal people.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, uh, this guy, Perry, uh, I was like, "Dude, what, what, you're gonna make them ride a bull?" He's like, "Don't worry about it, Boo, these are stunt bulls." [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
That's what he said! I go, "Does that bull know he's a stunt bull?"
- SPSpeaker
They got their SAG card.
- 38:25 – 45:02
Hosting philosophy: coaching scared contestants, primal fears, and “survivor’s euphoria”
- SPSpeaker
Did you help write creative?
- JRJoe Rogan
No, [chuckles] no, no, no, no, no, no.
- SPSpeaker
You didn't want any part of that?
- JRJoe Rogan
I had zero... No, what I would do is I'd show up at work, I'd get in my trailer, I'd take an edible, and then I would go to the set.
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
And I'd be like, "What do we got?" The first... I did the first two ep- the first four episodes, I did sober. Then I was like, "This is so boring."
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
"I need, I need to get high." [laughing]
- SPSpeaker
[laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
And so I would take pot lollipops and pot gummies and just get fucking lit and then enjoy it, 'cause then it was like, like, "This is an adventure."
- SPSpeaker
What a great gig!
- JRJoe Rogan
"This is crazy." Oh, it was a fun gig.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I had a b- I had so much fun, too-
- JRJoe Rogan
It was a lot of fun
- SPSpeaker
... 'cause all I do is, like, you, all I did was talk.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, it's easy. I ate a lot of shit. I ate a lot of things to try to encourage people, you know? Like, 'cause after a while-
- SPSpeaker
Well, you-
- JRJoe Rogan
... I got so numb
- SPSpeaker
... oh, you, you would do the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... the things with them?
- JRJoe Rogan
I'd be like: "You can do it. Look, I'll do it. I'll do it for you." Like-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... and some of the times when I did it to just try to help people, I'm like, "Look, I'm gonna show you. I'm gonna do it, and then you're gonna do it."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then we didn't even air me doing it-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... because I was like... 'Cause they didn't want it to make it seem like it was so... 'Cause I could do it easily.
- 45:02 – 57:21
Extreme risk and human limits: deceleration experiments, Blue Angels G-forces, and fighter jet fantasies
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah. Uh, [sniffs] uh, there's a... You ever heard of Colonel John Paul Stapp?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- SPSpeaker
He was a doctor, a biophysicist, a flight surgeon, and he worked with, uh, Chuck Yeager and all that, uh, out at, uh, uh, Edwards... It was... It's now Edwards Air Force Base, and they were conducting experiments on, uh, what happens to a pilot when they eject at high altitude. And Colonel John Paul Stapp, 'cause th- these experiments were gnarly. They were on deceleration. They built this huge sled out in, uh, the desert, and he would strap himself in because the, the thinking at the time was, if you're gonna do something, a very dangerous, uh, experiment, a lot of times people back then would put themselves at the center 'cause they didn't wanna... Of course, they had other people doing it, and he did it most, though. So they would go hundreds of miles per hour, yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa!
- SPSpeaker
Hundreds of miles per hour and stop within, uh, uh, eight feet.
- JRJoe Rogan
Geez.
- SPSpeaker
And at the time, I think they thought you could only experience, uh, maybe 18 Gs of deceleration. He, at one time, experienced 49 Gs of deceleration. I think it's the most ever that any human is... And he went blind for a little bit, and he knew that was going to happen because he'd had that happen before in these experiments. And the night before, the one where he got 49 Gs, experienced 49 Gs, he went around his house with his eyes closed, uh, and just trying to do things like cook, and if, if he did go blind forever.
- JRJoe Rogan
Geez.
- SPSpeaker
He's one of the most... He w- he, at one time, he was known as the fastest man alive. On that sled, he went faster than anyone at the time. He- and he's the reason we have seatbelts in cars. He's one of the most brilliant men of the 20th century. He was on the cover of Time magazine. No one knows who he is today.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow!
- SPSpeaker
Um, but he talked about survivor's euphoria, uh, and that's where I, I learned about it.
- JRJoe Rogan
What did he say about it?
- SPSpeaker
Just the, just the endorphins that get released after going through something like that, and that you did survive, and it's just... It, it just fills you up.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so he knew he was gonna go blind, and he did it anyway?
- SPSpeaker
He knew that there was a high probability of going blind.
- JRJoe Rogan
And a possibility of being blind forever.
- SPSpeaker
Yes, and he was blind for, like, a couple days before it s- he started getting, sensing light again.
- JRJoe Rogan
Phew!
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. He's, he's an amazing, amazing person.
- JRJoe Rogan
I did a flight with the Blue Angels once.
- SPSpeaker
How was that?
- JRJoe Rogan
It was amazing. Um, first of all, you, you don't... You never think of, like, that being a physical thing, that those guys have to be physically fit.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
When you go to... When we went to the base, before you, you know, do the whole safety thing, they explain everything, what you're gonna have to do, you see, like, that these guys are all fucking jacked. They're all like superheroes.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's 'cause they have to-
- SPSpeaker
And they're not the bigget- they're, they're compact.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, they're short like me.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they're all, like, thick.
- 57:21 – 1:08:05
Why he keeps doing it: new Jackass plans, self-worth, therapy boundaries, and his prankster father’s influence
- SPSpeaker
Um, we've done four, uh, and we just announced we're going to do... I just announced we're gonna do another, uh, it's gonna be out June 26th.
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you filmed it already?
- SPSpeaker
No, we're gonna f- we're about to film it in February.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, dude.
- SPSpeaker
Late February. So start then, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you feel apprehension? Do you feel like-
- SPSpeaker
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
No?
- SPSpeaker
No, I-
- JRJoe Rogan
But you can't get a concussion.
- SPSpeaker
No, I can't get any concussions, but, I mean, I don't care if, like, I break my arm or leg. No one cares about that. It's just, I just can't have another-
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't care about breaking your arm or your leg?
- SPSpeaker
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- SPSpeaker
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- SPSpeaker
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
So this is something... This is, like, a feeling that you've developed this, "I don't care." You didn't have that when you first started doing it.
- SPSpeaker
Uh, I guess there was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, if you went back to the first day
- SPSpeaker
... there was probably some, some self-worth issues when I began.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
It didn't come from a healthy place, Joe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it, but it's not just that. It's like you don't have a fear of being, like, radically injured? Because you blow your knee out or you blow your leg out, you're limping for the rest of your life.
- SPSpeaker
I don't, it doesn't, that doesn't bother me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- SPSpeaker
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
God, I'm so averse to that shit.
- SPSpeaker
It's, it's, I, I, uh, it's like the, uh, producer side of me overrides the performer side. It's like, "Hey, but we're gonna get footage," and it's, it's about as [chuckles] simple as that.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you'll still do dangerous shit. You just don't want to do anything dangerous-
- 1:08:05 – 1:22:12
Wildboyz and animal stunts: lions, alligators, sharks, and ‘no real backup plan’
- JRJoe Rogan
Some of the shit that made me the most uncomfortable was the Wild Boy stuff. Like, uh, Steve-O showed me a video of him when he climbed a tree, and the lions came up the tree and took his hat.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] Which is, which is disrespectful, if you think about it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well-
- SPSpeaker
Just take his hat?
- JRJoe Rogan
Fortunate, because if they didn't have the hat, they might have just grabbed his whole head and just dragged him off.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? I mean, those were actual lions.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, no, they, you-
- JRJoe Rogan
They weren't pet lions.
- SPSpeaker
You're entering into a situation that's unpredictable and kinda hoping for the best, is what you're doing.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they didn't have any backup plan. I mean, when you're in a tree, and the lions go up the tree to get you, there's nothing really anybody could do to help you.
- SPSpeaker
Y-
- JRJoe Rogan
By the time... If it gets ahold of you, you're dead. Like, that-
- SPSpeaker
There's nothing anyone... Like, here's an example, uh, of the backup plans we have. We're filming a... Steve-O's filming a bit with an alligator on Jackass, and our safety guy, Manny Puig, who dives in swamps at night with a miner's light to pull alligators up to the surface, and crocodiles. He's Tarzan. He's Tarzan. He was our safety guy.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
And it's like, "Okay, if this goes south, what, what do we do?" Uh, Manny, he goes, "Okay, we, we're gonna be doing this stunt with the alligator, and if the alligator grabs ahold of Steve-O and bites him, hopefully he will let go." [chuckles] And that was it. That was the whole plan.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's no, like, poke him in the eyes? There's no, like-
- SPSpeaker
If the gator doesn't wanna let go, he's not gonna let go. [inhales] So...
- JRJoe Rogan
Ugh. Fuck, dude.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. The wild animals ones are the nutty... One, one of the ones where you guys are playing keep away with hyenas. [clapping] [laughing] Why are you laughing?
- SPSpeaker
They have the strong, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes
- SPSpeaker
... one of the strongest jaw- the bite in the animal kingdom, maybe, like, third or fourth.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Uh, there's... What are you gonna do? There's nothing you can do. Just hope for the best.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, and they have instincts. Like, if you twist your ankle-
- SPSpeaker
[chuckles]
- JRJoe Rogan
... and they see you limping.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah. I was doing a thing with, uh... We were in Argentina at this zoo, and we were like: "Hey, can I get in with the, the lions?" 'Cause there was a couple of keepers in there with it, and they're like, "Yeah, come on in." And, and they're like, "But whatever you do, don't trip and fall." I'm like, "Oh, shit." And so I, I got on a bike and started riding around the pen, and, and they're like, "If we give you a signal, y- you gotta..." And so I'm riding around the pen, and they're like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! Get down, get off, get off!" 'Cause the lion locked in on me and was about to attack me, and they herd me out of the pen. And afterwards, they're like, "Yeah, that was the first time anyone, asides from us, has been in the pen with them, and it's also mating season, so he's very aggressive." [laughs] I'm like, "Well, I wish you'd have told me that before I got in there." Well, I still would've went in there, but it was a real half-ass, uh, type of situation.
- 1:22:12 – 1:46:41
Combat sports detour: gruesome injuries, women’s fights, and legends like Fedor, Brock, and Wanderlei
- JRJoe Rogan
What a weird life you've lived, dude.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Very strange.
- SPSpeaker
It's been okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. [laughing] No, I mean, look, you're fine.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, no, it's odd. I get it. I get it.
- JRJoe Rogan
What are you laughing at, Jamie? I just, I saw the injury here. Let me see. Okay, here he goes, and oh!
- SPSpeaker
Ah. [laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. ...
- SPSpeaker
I guess that was more his, uh, shin, his, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
You can see his- Oh, that's his tibia and his fibula.
- SPSpeaker
Oh-
- JRJoe Rogan
... Instagram.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah, tib, fib.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's both of them. Yeah, that's the Conor McGregor right there. Yeah, look at-
- SPSpeaker
Oh
- JRJoe Rogan
... Jackass on Instagram. I'm not-
- SPSpeaker
The Joe Theismann.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's the ... Yeah, Anderson Silva. I've seen a few of those. Those are the most painful things I've ever seen in UFC fights.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The things that really bother me are the, the leg breaks. When someone throws a kick, and the kick gets checked, and you see their leg, like, wrap around the shin.
- SPSpeaker
The Anderson Silva one-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yep
- SPSpeaker
... was very disturbing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, that was hard. It's crazy, like, it's only happened four times in the history of MMA, or in the history of the UFC, and two of them involved Chris Weidman. One, Chris Weidman did it to Anderson Silva, where Anderson Silva broke his leg, and then Chris Weidman broke his leg in the exact same way against Uriah Hall.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, I don't know if I saw the one against Uriah Hall-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uriah Hall
- SPSpeaker
... but I saw the first one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Was so loud, 'cause what he did was-
- SPSpeaker
Oh.
- 1:46:41 – 2:11:41
Brain health reckoning: 16 KOs, depression after head trauma, and deciding when to stop
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it happening to you now? Like, will you get KO'd easier?
- SPSpeaker
I get my knockouts... I got knocked out easier, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Y-
- SPSpeaker
It's the old glass jaw.
- JRJoe Rogan
You notice the difference?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I mean, w- wa- I could watch the impacts afterwards, and m- that might not have got me five or six years ago, but now it's just-
- JRJoe Rogan
You just go out.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
How many times do you think you've been KO'd?
- SPSpeaker
Six- uh, l- about 16.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow!
- SPSpeaker
And, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a lot.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you ever gotten, like, brain scans done and-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What do they say?
- SPSpeaker
Well, they're, you know, [laughing] they're not the best brain scans they ever looked at. [laughing]
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
I didn't win any awards for my brain scan, Joe. [laughing] They're like, "Don't get any more, uh, concussions."
- JRJoe Rogan
But did they say there's anything going on there that you need to be concerned about?
- SPSpeaker
Uh, well, they, y- they don't know about... You know, you can't detect CTE until post-mortem.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, but do you have any lingering issues, like memory issues, impulse control?
- SPSpeaker
Uh, the... I can... Well, I, I don't know whether it's I'm getting older, or... I can remember a lot of, like, things from four year- like, from my childhood, and that kind of thing, I have complete recall. But what I did, uh, a week ago, you know, it's, it's up, it's up in the air.
- JRJoe Rogan
And do you think that's connected to the head injuries?
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Or is it just, like, aging?
- SPSpeaker
I-
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause as you get older, you forget things.
- SPSpeaker
Well, there's the million-dollar question.
- 2:11:41 – 2:29:12
Documentary work: Wild and Wonderful Whites, exploitation concerns, and new projects (David Allan Coe)
- JRJoe Rogan
Speaking of meth, we, uh, we always talk about this documentary that Johnny had a hand in.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, that's right!
- SPSpeaker
Oh, The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia.
- JRJoe Rogan
You... That's r- I fucking love that documentary, dude.
- SPSpeaker
Thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
That documentary was crazy. How did you get involved in... Thank you, Jamie.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
How'd you get involved in that?
- SPSpeaker
Um, a friend of mine knew Julian Nitzberg, and Julian is the one who found Jesco White. Uh, uh, he, Jes- uh, Julian was doing a- another documentary on, um... Oh, shit. Uh, fuck, I can't remember right now. But they're like, "Hey, do you wanna meet Julian Nitzberg?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And so I talked to Julian, and he told me the story of his being involved with Jesco White, the first docu- you saw the first one, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
You did more than one?
- SPSpeaker
No, no. The first one, uh, Jacob Young did. Uh, Julian Nitzberg found Jesco White, went to Jacob Young and said, "Hey, look at this guy. Look at this character." And it came out on videotape, and if you saw it back in the late '80s, early '90s, it was usually, like, a copied over fourth-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is this the Dancing Outlaw one?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- SPSpeaker
So that's what Julian-
- JRJoe Rogan
So that's not The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia.
- SPSpeaker
No, that was-
- JRJoe Rogan
That was yours, right?
- SPSpeaker
Yes, and so I was talking to Julian, and I'm like, "Well, what do you think Jesco's up to now?" He's like, "I don't know." And so we got some money together and sent him to talk to Jesco and his family, and now, because of, uh, just generational neglect and all the young kids coming up, he's like... He was like, you know, the, the wildest one in the family, but now he's, like, the eighth wildest.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughing]
- SPSpeaker
All the younger ones are much, you know, more intense. And we came back with three days of footage, and we're like, "Holy shit!" And I- we show- we cut something together and took it to my friends at MTV, and, uh, they're like, "Yeah, let... Okay, we'll give you some money." They weren't even sure. They're like, "You guys haven't, you know, uh, failed us yet," so they just pushed the money our way, and we came back with that. We were... It was, it was wild.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a fucking amazing documentary, and-
- SPSpeaker
They're a charisma- a charismatic family, a charismatic bunch of outlaws.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, well, they're certainly entertaining, and it's also an untold story about that part of the country and how they've been ravaged by pills.
- SPSpeaker
In, in... Well, they've been rav- first of all, they were ravaged by the coal companies-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right
- SPSpeaker
... jacking their town, and then-... you can only buy stuff from the company store, and then when the coal's gone, "Fuck you, we're out of here," and the town's just left, you know, massacred, and then th- with no thought of what happens to those people.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah.
Episode duration: 2:29:12
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