Joe Rogan Experience #2444 - Andrew Wilson

Joe Rogan 0:00 [upbeat music]

Joe Rogan 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

Speaker 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music] Prove me wrong type things, you know, way before Charlie Kirk was-

Andrew Wilson 0:18 That changed my minds?

Joe Rogan 0:19 Changed my mind.

Andrew Wilson 0:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:20 What does Charlie... What did Charlie say? Prove me wrong or something like that?

Andrew Wilson 0:24 Yeah, it was something akin to that. My understanding was that es- essentially, uh, TPUSA ripped that idea off from Crowder.

Joe Rogan 0:34 Yeah, essentially.

Andrew Wilson 0:36 Yeah. And then, uh, he w- I think he feels a lot of, like, responsibility for what happened with Kirk, because-

Joe Rogan 0:46 Is he the Mossad?

Andrew Wilson 0:48 What's that?

Joe Rogan 0:48 Is he the Mossad? [laughing]

Andrew Wilson 0:49 Is he the Mossad? Yeah, exactly. That's so funny. I don't know, let's k- have you got, you got Candace's number? We can ask her.

Joe Rogan 0:55 [laughing]

Andrew Wilson 0:56 We can ask her.

Joe Rogan 0:57 Candace is getting, uh... She's getting dragged on Twitter today, because-

Andrew Wilson 1:01 [coughs]

Joe Rogan 1:02 ... uh, she's like: "I've, I've lived in Connecticut. I've never seen this much ice on trees, and, uh, it's 30 degrees out." And everybody's like, "Yeah, 30 is freezing." [laughing]

Andrew Wilson 1:13 Yeah. Yeah, it's so funny. Ice on trees.

Joe Rogan 1:15 And then people are like, "This is the people- "

Andrew Wilson 1:16 Do you see all the Miss Cleo memes?

Joe Rogan 1:18 Miss Cleo?

Andrew Wilson 1:19 It's... Oh, it's so funny.

Joe Rogan 1:20 Who's Miss Cleo?

Andrew Wilson 1:21 You remember... You don't remember the Miss Cleo-

Joe Rogan 1:22 Oh, the psychic?

Andrew Wilson 1:23 Yeah, the psychic.

Joe Rogan 1:24 The psychic.

Andrew Wilson 1:24 They keep on [chuckles] putting the Miss Cleo memes out for Candace, 'cause she's a psychic, you know? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:28 That's hilarious.

Andrew Wilson 1:29 [laughing] It is funny.

Joe Rogan 1:33 I think this lighter just shit the bed. Can I borrow that other one? Thank you. Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:39 It's really funny.

Joe Rogan 1:40 Well, Candace has painted herself into a weird corner, where everything has to be a wild conspiracy. Like, it has to be Bridget Macron's a man-

Andrew Wilson 1:48 Oh, yeah, it's-

Joe Rogan 1:49 ... Erika Kirk killed Charlie. It ha- it has to, like, one-up the last one, you know?

Andrew Wilson 1:54 Yeah. I, uh, I was... It's really funny, you came to the same conclusion that I did. So it's like, I've seen those conspiracy channels come up before-

Joe Rogan 2:03 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 2:03 ... and then they, they come up, and then they crash out.

Joe Rogan 2:06 [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 2:06 And the reason is, is because, like, with- for her, I think she, she had the whole, like, um, uh... She was involved with this, right? She was involved intricately with, with Kirk. She knew him.

Joe Rogan 2:18 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:18 And so that give- gave a lot of credibility to a lot of the things that she was saying. But then once you start moving back into, like, Mandela Effect stuff and, and-

Joe Rogan 2:26 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 2:26 ... you know, time travel and this and that.

Joe Rogan 2:28 Time travel.

Andrew Wilson 2:28 Yeah, people are like, "Ah." [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:31 [laughing]

Andrew Wilson 2:32 "Ah."

Joe Rogan 2:32 I mean, you can do that if you're that guy, if you're Art Bell-

Andrew Wilson 2:35 [laughing] Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:35 ... you know, if you w- [laughing]

Andrew Wilson 2:37 Well, you know, but Bell, I, I, I remember l- I used to listen to Bell all the time.

Joe Rogan 2:40 He's the GOAT.

Andrew Wilson 2:41 Oh, yeah, he was great.

Joe Rogan 2:41 That's why I got him up on the wall over there.

Andrew Wilson 2:42 You remember that intro? Boom, boom, boom, boom-

Joe Rogan 2:44 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 2:44 ... boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah, so he-

Joe Rogan 2:46 From the Kingdom of Nye.

Andrew Wilson 2:47 Yeah, yep.

Joe Rogan 2:48 [laughing]

Andrew Wilson 2:48 I remember, I remember listening to him, uh, for years, it... When I'd drive around with my dad.

Joe Rogan 2:54 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:54 And he was a... Like, it was a big deal. I remember the very first episode I heard from him, it was something about the Nim. It was like, you know-

Joe Rogan 3:01 What's the Nim?

Andrew Wilson 3:02 The Nim were like... This guy called in, he was a time traveler.

Joe Rogan 3:05 [laughing]

Andrew Wilson 3:06 Right? And he came back in time, because his whole, his, his whole thing was, like, he had to stop the weather patterns from destroying the future. Because the Nim, an alien race of greys, had come, and they were heating up the planet slowly-

Joe Rogan 3:19 [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 3:20 ... to change it to be the conditionals that were necessary for them to then live on the planet.

Joe Rogan 3:24 Ah. [laughing]

Andrew Wilson 3:24 And you know, Art Bell, he's always playing into it with the lunatics-

Joe Rogan 3:27 Sure

Andrew Wilson 3:27 ... you know? And he's like, "And does the CIA currently know that you're there doing this?" [laughing] You know? And the guy, and the dude's just like, "Uh..." [laughing]

Joe Rogan 3:41 [laughing] Yeah, Art would give you all the rope.

Andrew Wilson 3:43 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:43 You could call up, "Art, I'm a werewolf." "Interesting."

Andrew Wilson 3:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:47 How long-

Andrew Wilson 3:47 Oh, have you ever heard the Bigfoot episode?

Joe Rogan 3:49 How did you get that... No.

Andrew Wilson 3:49 Oh, my God, that's the funniest episode you'll ever hear.

Joe Rogan 3:52 Really?

Andrew Wilson 3:52 So a redneck calls into Art Bell and talks about how he killed Bigfoot and where he buried it.

Joe Rogan 3:56 [laughing]

Andrew Wilson 3:56 And the guy has... It's like, I don't know if it was early trolling-

Joe Rogan 4:00 Uh

Andrew Wilson 4:00 ... like before trolling was trolling, but it was... Like, this guy, he was like, "Yep, you know, me and Timmy, we, uh, we took him out back there, and we shot him right in the chest twice. And, uh, there was some young'uns, and they spread out a little bit, and then we, you know, we packed up the Bigfoot and buried him in the backyard." [laughing] You know?

Joe Rogan 4:16 Jesus Christ.

Andrew Wilson 4:17 And Bell's just like, "And you said there was young'uns?" [laughing]

Joe Rogan 4:21 [laughing] The Bigfoot people are the weirdest.

Andrew Wilson 4:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:24 Duncan Trussell and I went, uh, hunting for Bigfoot once. We did this, uh... I used to do this TV show for a while called Joe Rogan Questions Everything, and I would be like: "All right, tell me about chemtrails." You know? And I'd go meet with all the loons and all, all, all the people that are, like, really involved in UFO, anything like that.

Andrew Wilson 4:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:41 And we went and hung out with the Bigfoot people. So we went Bigfoot hunting for, like, two days in the Pacific Northwest and talked to all these people, and they're all, like, the same person. The... I just said it's like a team of unfuckable white guys. It's like, that's what you find. Like, these guys are just like, they've found their calling.

Andrew Wilson 5:00 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:01 It's just, like, looking for a mystery in the woods-

Andrew Wilson 5:02 Yeah

Joe Rogan 5:03 ... that you'll never solve.

Andrew Wilson 5:04 Well, the... There was a guy you used to have on your podcast, and he was, he was huge for a long time, and I think he still is. It's, uh... You remember those missing cases?

Joe Rogan 5:13 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 5:13 Right?

Joe Rogan 5:14 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 5:14 That was, that's a big deal. And I was always, like, anytime I heard anything about that, I always was enthralled with it, because some of the stories were demented.

Joe Rogan 5:22 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 5:22 You know, like kids appearing 500 miles away and all this.

Joe Rogan 5:25 Uh-huh.

Andrew Wilson 5:26 But that guy always had you edged, 'cause people would always go, "What do you think is going on?" You know, and he'd go-

Joe Rogan 5:31 What was that guy's name?

Andrew Wilson 5:32 I can't, I can't remember it, but he'd... It was, like, Missing-

Joe Rogan 5:37 Yeah, Missing-

Andrew Wilson 5:37 ... 4-411?

Joe Rogan 5:38 411.

Andrew Wilson 5:38 Yeah, Missing 411.

Joe Rogan 5:40 He's... I've seen him on Instagram or on Twitter.

Andrew Wilson 5:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:44 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 5:45 He... But he'd got all the park records, you know, and he started going through, and he was like, "Uh, there's some really weird stuff going on here for how many people are missing in national parks."

Joe Rogan 5:53 There is. There is, but the reality is, if you die in the woods, you get consumed pretty quick. That's the reality. That's why you don't find mountain lion skeletons. Mountain lions are a real thing. I've never found a down- dead mountain lion skeleton in all the times I've been hunting. Never, not once. You'll find, uh, elk bones, you know, you'll find stuff like that.

Andrew Wilson 6:15 ... I found some coyote-

Joe Rogan 6:17 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 6:17 ... coyote skeletons before-

Joe Rogan 6:18 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 6:18 ... out in the Nevada desert.

Joe Rogan 6:20 But mountain lions are a real thing. You very, very, very, very, very rarely find a dead mountain lion.

Andrew Wilson 6:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:26 And there's so many of them. Now, think about how few people actually go, like, hiking-

Andrew Wilson 6:31 Yeah

Joe Rogan 6:32 ... into the deep wilderness. Your body just gets consumed.

Andrew Wilson 6:35 Sure.

Joe Rogan 6:36 You know, there's so many animals that come along, rats, all kinds of things eat your bones.

Andrew Wilson 6:40 Well, yeah, it's a free meal.

Joe Rogan 6:41 Yeah, it's so easy.

Andrew Wilson 6:42 And they can smell it for miles.

Joe Rogan 6:44 Sure, bears.

Andrew Wilson 6:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:46 Anywhere there's wild pigs, and then, then it's over, then there's nothing left.

Andrew Wilson 6:49 Yeah, yeah, they can smell that stuff for miles.

Joe Rogan 6:51 But it's like people always want to attach some crazy, deeper, weird, m- you know, UFO, Bigfoot meaning to it. It's like, no, that's... You're in the wild, and nature has a whole plan for dead things, and it does a really good job of consuming them.

Andrew Wilson 7:04 Oh, yeah, they don't last.

Joe Rogan 7:06 Not at all.

Andrew Wilson 7:06 Well, that's the thing. If you live out in the country, it's... You see this all the time. Uh, you know, a raccoon will be around getting in someone's trash. They'll walk out, bam! Raccoon's done. They just go throw it in the bushes.

Joe Rogan 7:16 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 7:17 You don't need... That's it.

Joe Rogan 7:19 That's it. Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 7:19 Problem, problem solved.

Joe Rogan 7:21 Problem solved, and it disappears quickly, and-

Andrew Wilson 7:23 Mm

Joe Rogan 7:23 ... the plants consume it, and-

Andrew Wilson 7:25 Yeah

Joe Rogan 7:25 ... that's it.

Andrew Wilson 7:26 Sure.

Joe Rogan 7:26 It rots and things eat it.

Andrew Wilson 7:28 Doesn't even take that long to rot. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 7:30 No.

Andrew Wilson 7:30 It's, it's just gone. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 7:31 Pretty quick. It's pretty quick. Have you ever seen, like, those time-lapse photos, where they take a dead animal, and they let it sit there, and you watch it get consumed by maggots and... It's very quick.

Andrew Wilson 7:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:40 So these poor people that go hiking... You know, like, if you go hiking, and you're by yourself, and you break an ankle, and you're 15 miles in, and you don't have a compass, and you're kind of, like, roughly judging which h- hill you came over and-

Andrew Wilson 7:56 Yeah

Joe Rogan 7:56 ... There's a lot of people that just get ahead of themselves, and they really shouldn't be that far out there, and they just die. Happens all the time.

Andrew Wilson 8:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:04 You know, so, like, this idea that it's like there's a... Uh, you could-- If you look at all the data, and you, you try to find a pattern to it, and you start imagining that there's some grand conspiracy, there's some watcher in the woods that's consuming people, some demon that's out there, you can, y- y- you can get pretty kooky with your ideas.

Andrew Wilson 8:23 I think the popular theory is it's wild men.

Joe Rogan 8:25 Oh, wild men?

Andrew Wilson 8:26 Wild men.

Joe Rogan 8:27 Oh, like humans?

Andrew Wilson 8:28 Yeah, well, or some human variant that are-

Joe Rogan 8:31 That's what this guy, this 411 guy believes?

Andrew Wilson 8:34 I'm not sure because he won't-

Joe Rogan 8:36 Won't say?

Andrew Wilson 8:37 ... say. They don't a- he doesn't-

Joe Rogan 8:38 [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 8:38 ... he doesn't actually give his, "Here's what I think is going on."

Joe Rogan 8:43 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 8:43 But people ask him, and he's like: "Well, I have my theories," but he never tells you actually what the theories are, you know?

Joe Rogan 8:49 Interesting. I wonder why he doesn't wanna tell. Maybe that's why he's not more popular. If he just came out with it like Candace-

Andrew Wilson 8:56 Yeah

Joe Rogan 8:57 ... maybe it'd be huge. [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 8:58 Yeah, like those guys that used to be in the '90s, who were saying that we were going underground and killing the Nephilim.

Joe Rogan 9:03 Oh, yeah, yeah.

Andrew Wilson 9:04 Those guys were great.

Joe Rogan 9:04 [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 9:05 They were... You're going down, and it's like, oh, there's a man, and they were giants. They had three rows of teeth, and your special forces are going [chuckles] down there and taking them out. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 9:14 Ooh. [chuckles] Yeah, there's a whole group of people that believe that there's underground creatures that live underground and come out at night, and there's always been, like, these-

Andrew Wilson 9:22 Cryptids?

Joe Rogan 9:23 Yeah, whatever they are.

Andrew Wilson 9:25 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:25 You know, people... Some people think the grays live underground. You know, there's like, there's not a lot of mystery left, you know, outside of places like the Amazon and the Congo that are super deep to get to. Not a whole lot of mystery left in terms of life.

Andrew Wilson 9:40 Maybe ocean depths.

Joe Rogan 9:42 Yeah, ocean depths for sure.

Andrew Wilson 9:44 That's, like, the whole new unexplored frontier, right-

Joe Rogan 9:47 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 9:47 ... is ocean depths.

Joe Rogan 9:48 Yeah. Yeah, like-

Andrew Wilson 9:49 Anytime I turn on the TV, it's like, uh, "Look at this crazy creature." I'm like, "That doesn't exist." And I look it up, I'm like, "Wait, that-

Joe Rogan 9:55 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 9:55 ... that exists?" I saw one the other day, tweeted out. I was like, "Mandela Effect has to be real." It was a... It's called a Siberian mule deer. You ever seen a Siberian mule deer?

Joe Rogan 10:04 No.

Andrew Wilson 10:05 They have fangs.

Joe Rogan 10:07 Oh, right! I, I have seen a fanged deer. I forget what they call it. Apparently, that's the, uh... You know, do you know what elk ivories are?

Andrew Wilson 10:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:16 Yeah, that's... It used to be, like, a tusk, like, way, way back in the day.

Andrew Wilson 10:20 It's so retarded-looking, dude.

Joe Rogan 10:22 Yeah, the-

Andrew Wilson 10:22 It's-

Joe Rogan 10:22 ... the fanged deer.

Andrew Wilson 10:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:23 Yeah, they're weird. It's very strange.

Andrew Wilson 10:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:26 I wonder what they were there for.

Andrew Wilson 10:29 Yeah, well, there's v- I found a video 'cause I was like, "No way, dude, do these things exist?" I thought I was being memed, you know? So [chuckles] I went and looked-

Joe Rogan 10:35 [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 10:36 ... and this thing is real. So I found a video of them fighting, and they use those things as weapons.

Joe Rogan 10:40 Oh, that makes sense. That's the only thing that makes sense.

Andrew Wilson 10:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:42 Like gorillas. The gorillas don't eat meat-

Andrew Wilson 10:45 Yeah

Joe Rogan 10:45 ... yet they have these massive fangs.

Andrew Wilson 10:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:48 You know, it's... Nature is weird. So much variation, you know? There's so many different types of life. Of it's... And the, the fact that they all sort of synchronize, like this one eats that one, and that one eats this one, and this one, it lives there, and that one lives there. It's, like, it's very fascinating when you really look at the, just the wide variety of species that exist.

Andrew Wilson 11:10 Well, most people don't know anything about it.

Joe Rogan 11:12 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 11:12 Like, most people have never ever... We live in such a comfortable world-

Joe Rogan 11:17 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 11:18 ... that is completely guarded from everything that's out there, and it's like if people had a taste of out there-

Joe Rogan 11:26 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 11:27 ... I think that the worldview of many, many people would change very quickly, especially feminists. I think the feminists would immediately stop being feminists if they just had a taste of, like... Well, you know, people actually did have to shut themselves off at night from wolves.

Joe Rogan 11:40 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 11:40 That was a real thing. Wolves would come in and eat you, and so you would shut yourself in so that that didn't happen.

Joe Rogan 11:46 Well, that's gone so far the other way, that fucking retards are bringing wolves into places.

Andrew Wilson 11:51 Yeah, [chuckles] I know.

Joe Rogan 11:53 It is so dumb. You know, I have a good friend who-

Andrew Wilson 11:56 Didn't they take it over, like, in, in Yellowstone or someplace? They reintroduced wolves-

Joe Rogan 12:00 Yes

Andrew Wilson 12:00 ... and it just decimated the deer population.

Joe Rogan 12:02 Well, the, the elk population, but that's actually arguable that that might have been a good thing.... um, in some ways, because it was getting to- elk need natural predators, and mountain lions can only kill so many elk.

Andrew Wilson 12:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:17 Um, but what's really interesting is mountain lions kill way more elk when wolves are around, 'cause the wolves find the mountain lions and take their elk, and so then the, the mountain lions have to go kill another deer or, you know, whatever they-

Andrew Wilson 12:30 Why, why, like, just issue more hunting elk permits, though? Like, why do that?

Joe Rogan 12:34 Well, d- you have to have some natural predators i- in, in a good, healthy ecosystem. And there's a good argument, particularly in Montana, that at one point in time, it had gotten to a, a, a point where you're gonna have, like, rampant disease. Because they were, they were issuing-

Andrew Wilson 12:50 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 12:50 ... these, uh... They were issuing, like, unlimited or a large amount of tags for people in the midwinter, so that you can catch these elk in deep snow and just pick them off, because they were having so many of them, and that they, they weren't sustainable, that they were hitting these massive populations. So their populations are down to, like, [sighs] I wanna say less than 40% of what they were at their peak when they brought in the wolves. But the problem is, these wolves, like, what they did in Colorado recently, is the dumbest of all time. Because they brought these fucking wolves outside of Aspen, and they took wolves from Washington State... Washington State or Oregon. But whatever it was, these, these wolves from the Pacific Northwest were wolves that already had been killing cattle. So they captured these wolves instead of killing them, and then they relocated them [snaps fingers] to Aspen, where they're killing cattle. So they, they relocated them onto my buddy's ranch. Like, there's five of them.

Andrew Wilson 13:49 And he had a cattle ranch, did he?

Joe Rogan 13:51 He didn't have... He doesn't have cattle on his ranch, but his fucking neighbors do.

Andrew Wilson 13:54 Okay.

Joe Rogan 13:54 And his neighbors are losing cattle left and right, and he's w- and so now they've killed off a couple of them, and they're trying to... It was a disaster, and it's because the governor, the governor's husband, he's a, uh, wildlife lover, and he thinks, "It would be amazing if we had wolves in our community."

Andrew Wilson 14:11 You ever talk to those old deer hunters in Michigan?

Joe Rogan 14:14 In Michigan?

Andrew Wilson 14:14 Yeah, they've been pissed off for... Like, every deer hunter I know in Michigan has been pissed off, who's a native, for years because they all, they all used to shoot pheasant. That was the big deal in Michigan, was pheasant.

Joe Rogan 14:25 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 14:26 And then here's the story I heard. I don't know if it's true or not, right? Um, but the DNR, the Department of Natural Resources, imported a bus- a bunch of western coyotes-

Joe Rogan 14:37 Oh!

Andrew Wilson 14:37 ... in order to thin out the deer population, because the deer population was basically mangling all these farm crops.

Joe Rogan 14:45 Oh, boy.

Andrew Wilson 14:46 And those w- now, that's an all-you-can-eat buffet for a coyote in Nevada, these ground birds that are just these fat-

Joe Rogan 14:54 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 14:54 ... fat little ground birds, and they decimated the population. So you, you'll talk to these old deer hunters, "Have you seen any pheasant?" "No, shut up!" [laughing] Shut up.

Joe Rogan 15:04 The interesting thing about that, though, is pheasant's an invasive species. That's not a natural North American species either.

Andrew Wilson 15:10 True.

Joe Rogan 15:10 They brought those fuckers over, and they are delicious.

Andrew Wilson 15:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:13 And it's fun to hunt them.

Andrew Wilson 15:14 Well, they would always just walk those train tracks, those old abandoned train tracks, you know, and, and, uh, they'd have the dogs, dogs kick up the pheasant, and they'd shoot them from the track. Dog would bring it up. That was, like, a Michigan pastime.

Joe Rogan 15:24 Yeah, the c- the coyote thing's a real problem, 'cause coyotes are now... They used to be a western animal, and now they're in all 50 states.

Andrew Wilson 15:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:32 Not only that, they're in virtually every city in America.

Andrew Wilson 15:35 Well, they've been wiping them out in Michigan pretty good-

Joe Rogan 15:37 Yeah?

Andrew Wilson 15:37 ... in the rural areas. Oh, yeah. Well, what they do now is they have the GPS trackers. They put them on the dogs.

Joe Rogan 15:42 Ah.

Andrew Wilson 15:42 Old boys will get in with AR-15s, and those dogs will run them for 200 miles, and then they finally take a shot, and they just will do that all winter long, man.

Joe Rogan 15:51 That's good, but it's hard to wipe them out-

Andrew Wilson 15:54 [clears throat]

Joe Rogan 15:54 ... because what they do is, you know, when you hear coyotes calling, it's like roll call. Like when they're, [howls] they're letting... Sometimes, there's a lot of confusion to what they're doing. Some people think that they're letting the other coyotes know that they've killed something, that we have food, but it's also a roll call. And when one of the coyotes is missing, the females have more pups.

Andrew Wilson 16:14 Really?

Joe Rogan 16:14 Yeah, some weird natural reaction. Also, their natural enemy is gray wolves, and when, um, they evolved, they evolved to, when the gray wolves killed them, 'cause the, the gray wolves don't breed with coyotes, but coyotes do breed with red wolves. That's why you have these, like, coy wolves on the East Coast.

Andrew Wilson 16:32 Just like coyotes.

Joe Rogan 16:33 'Cause a coyote is a wolf. It's a wolf.

Andrew Wilson 16:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 16:35 It's just a small wolf. And so their natural inclination is when they're getting chased, they move to a new area, and then they have even more pups. So that's how they've spread out through the entire country. So if you go back to, like, the turn of the century, like, the 1900s, coyotes were exclusively a western animal.

Andrew Wilson 16:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:54 [clears throat] Now they're in New York City.

Andrew Wilson 16:56 Yeah, they're everywhere.

Joe Rogan 16:56 Which is crazy. They have them in Central Park.

Andrew Wilson 16:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:58 They have fucking coyotes running around Central Park. Some lady this morning posted on X, uh, a mountain lion in San Francisco, sitting on a porch in the city of San Francisco, a big one, just sitting there. It's like [laughing] ...

Andrew Wilson 17:12 Just having a good time.

Joe Rogan 17:14 [clears throat]

Joe Rogan 17:14 Well, that's just 'cause California has the dumbest fucking laws when it comes to those things.

Andrew Wilson 17:18 Yeah. Well, they have terrible gun laws, too. They have terrible-

Joe Rogan 17:21 They have terrible laws.

Andrew Wilson 17:21 They have terrible laws, period.

Joe Rogan 17:22 They have terrible laws, t- terrible everything.

Andrew Wilson 17:24 Terrible politicians.

Joe Rogan 17:25 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 17:25 You know what's, is a shame, too? Like, I grew up in Santa Rosa, and, um, that's the most beautiful area.

Joe Rogan 17:33 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 17:33 The Napa Valley area is the most beautiful area on planet Earth.

Joe Rogan 17:36 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 17:36 The weather's always perfect. It's January 15th, it might as well be July 15th.

Joe Rogan 17:42 Yep.

Andrew Wilson 17:42 Right? It's always perfect, it's always gorgeous, and they fucked it all up.

Joe Rogan 17:46 They fucked it all up.

Andrew Wilson 17:46 They fucked it all up.

Joe Rogan 17:47 Yeah. Well, they-

Andrew Wilson 17:48 And they fucked it up real bad, too.

Joe Rogan 17:50 Oh, it's un- almost unfixable now.

Andrew Wilson 17:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:53 Especially, like, the San Francisco area. Like, the whole Pacific Northwest is just almost unfixable.... it's like they double down, and they keep going. Like, Seattle now has a communist mayor-

Andrew Wilson 18:05 Yeah

Joe Rogan 18:06 -who's been living with her parents.

Andrew Wilson 18:07 So New York had [laughs] they all got communist mayors. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 18:11 Yeah, isn't that-

Andrew Wilson 18:11 Black Lives Matter had- they were- their head organizers, they were communist, avowed communist, like-

Joe Rogan 18:16 Until it came to buying property with-

Andrew Wilson 18:18 Yeah

Joe Rogan 18:18 ... Black Lives Matter money.

Andrew Wilson 18:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:19 What's happening with that?

Andrew Wilson 18:20 Well, then they're, then they're very much capitalistic. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:22 How come they're not in trouble? I don't understand that. Like, they spent millions of dollars of that money on real estate.

Andrew Wilson 18:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:30 There's only one UFC 325 this Saturday, and on DraftKings Sportsbook, the number one sports book for live betting. Once it's over, your shot to get in on the action is gone. DraftKings Sportsbook is built for live betting, not just pre-fight picks, because in the UFC, one moment can flip the entire fight: one punch, one kick, one takedown. New to DraftKings? New customers can bet just five bucks and get $300 in bonus bets if your bet wins with code Rogan. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use the code Rogan. That's code Rogan to turn five bucks into 300 in bonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

19:13 Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. In New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY 467369. In Connecticut, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. Pass-through of per wager tax may apply in Illinois. 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Restrictions apply. Bet must win to receive bonus bets, which expire in seven days. Minimum odds required. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co/audio. Limited time offer.

Joe Rogan 19:43 What's going on?

Andrew Wilson 19:44 No idea.

Joe Rogan 19:45 [laughs]

Andrew Wilson 19:45 I have no idea why... Well, I don't, I don't know why the, the heads of many of these organizations aren't being rounded up and summarily arrested.

Joe Rogan 19:51 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 19:51 I mean, if we're watching these... I've been covering the riots nonstop-

Joe Rogan 19:55 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 19:55 I'm sorry, protests, the, the completely organic protests, which are com- totally organic.

Joe Rogan 20:00 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 20:00 Um, and it's been interesting to watch. I was watching one the other day, we, we were live, and it was Don Lemon, and he had showed up in Minnesota, and the first thing Don Lemon does, right? I hate Don Lemon, by the way, but the first thing he does-

Joe Rogan 20:14 He is one of the dumbest motherfuckers-

Andrew Wilson 20:16 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 20:16 ... that has ever gotten on television.

Andrew Wilson 20:18 Yeah, he's terrible. First thing he does, he gets... He drives up in this car, he's in the backseat, and he jumps out of the car, and he has this shit-eating Lemon smile on his face, you know, and he runs over with Starbucks to these people.

Joe Rogan 20:29 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 20:29 And he's like, "Here you go!"

Joe Rogan 20:30 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 20:31 And then he jumps back in the car, right, and they drive off. Now, here's, here's what's interesting about this: he comes back, and he's in there with the protesters, you know what I mean? And he's interviewing them. Most of the protesters are saying, "We're coming from out of town. We're from this state. I'm from two states away. I'm from three states away," you know, for this totally organic protest. Well, the cops, what they start doing, they have these guardrails on the, the sidewalk in front of the ICE facility, and there's gaps inside of that barrier, and so they pull their police cruisers in just to fill those gaps so that they stay behind the barrier. And Lemon's like: "Why would they do that? Why would they, why would they keep us compressed, uh, you know, behind this barrier?" And I'm thinking, "Because you just stopped your car in the middle of the street to run across the road and give these guys Starbucks, you idiot!" You know-

Joe Rogan 21:18 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 21:18 ... they want to keep the roadway clear so that they can get their people in and out. You literally stopped your car in the middle of the road, ran across the street to give these people Starbucks, and then got back in your car. And you're like, "Why, why is it that they're trying to kid- keep us from getting into the road?" [laughs] You know? I'm like: "What are you talking about?"

Joe Rogan 21:34 [laughs]

Andrew Wilson 21:35 I just couldn't believe it. I was like, "What?"

Joe Rogan 21:36 It's amazing when these people that are so smug, uh, when they're protected by a large organization, by CNN, [lips smack] and then they get fired, and then they get l- they're, they're basically like, like a dog, like Carl, getting released into the woods, and then they have to fend for themselves. And you see them in the world of podcasting, where you don't have anybody writing things for you, and you have to express your own opinions. You're like, "Oh, this is the real you."

Andrew Wilson 22:05 It turns out you're a moron.

Joe Rogan 22:07 [laughs]

Andrew Wilson 22:07 That... Well, I didn't know. Whoa! You know, the whole time, imagine you're thinking the whole time, uh... You know, I never thought I'd be an entertainer. I didn't think I'd do anything with podcast. Never. Never in a million years. I never would've thought that.

Joe Rogan 22:19 You were a... What were you, an engineer or a robotics guy?

Andrew Wilson 22:21 Robotics mechanic, yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:22 A robotics mechanic?

Andrew Wilson 22:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:24 How did you get involved in that?

Andrew Wilson 22:26 Uh, well, [laughs] I was a, I was a gunsmith for years, and, um, there, there's no real applicable skills outside of that for anything, actually. There- it doesn't really carry over in anything. It's really its own thing. You know, bluing, things like that-

Joe Rogan 22:41 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 22:41 ... it just doesn't carry over. Um, a friend of mine said, "Hey, look," 'cause I told him, I was like: "I need a job. Um, you know, I, I'm, I'm not making it. What do you, what do you think?" He's like, "You know, you should apply to be an industrial mechanic." And I was like, "I don't know much about it." You know, he's like: "Well, just go apply." So I did. Took an aptitude test, and so, uh, the guy was like, "Well, I want to hire you at a level three," which was high, high... You know, it was like mid-range, wasn't the highest, wasn't the lowest. I was like, "Damn, okay. You know, what's the pay?" He was like, "Well, it's like 30 an hour." You know, that to me, was, was life-changing. So I took the job, and I got... I didn't know what the hell I was doing, but they trained me up well. And then, um, there were some robots on the floor, and I started working on those, and then from there, they trained me in robotics, and so, uh, it was, it was all done on site.

Joe Rogan 23:29 Like what kind of o- automation? Like car assembly-

Andrew Wilson 23:32 Automation, yep, automation, and it was all food-related.

Joe Rogan 23:34 Food-related?

Andrew Wilson 23:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:34 Mm.

Andrew Wilson 23:35 All food robots. Yep. So we weren't dealing with Johnny 5. We were dealing with, like, vacuum systems and ovens and, uh, various robots which were associated with those. Like, for instance, there was a packaging machine that would ju- all it would do is form boxes. That's all it did. It just... That's it. But it would form, you know, 1,000 boxes a minute, and it was a, it was a giant robot, and it had a huge sequence of functions on it. You know, when people think robot, they always think humanoid, but almost-

Joe Rogan 24:02 Mm

Andrew Wilson 24:02 ... no robot-... is, is in any way humanoid at all.

Joe Rogan 24:05 Right.

Andrew Wilson 24:06 You know, they're, they're- that's just not what they're for.

Joe Rogan 24:08 It is weird, right? That we think of robots as, like, movie robots.

Andrew Wilson 24:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:12 We think of iRobot.

Andrew Wilson 24:14 Yeah, if, if you came across a robot in a factory, you would have no idea it was a robot. You, you'd be like, "What the hell was that?"

Joe Rogan 24:21 So how did you go from that to debating people online?

Andrew Wilson 24:25 Uh, COVID.

Joe Rogan 24:27 Really?

Andrew Wilson 24:27 So the... Yeah, the lockdowns happened, and I was laid off. The- all the food plants in Michigan were shut down, especially the meat plants, and that's where I was. I was in the meat plants. And, uh, and they all shut down be- because of the draconian restrictions of one Gretchen Whitmer.

Joe Rogan 24:43 Mm.

Andrew Wilson 24:43 And, um, anyway, while she was out with, you know, on a boat partying with, uh, you know, with her honey, we were all, uh, locked out of work, right? So we-

Joe Rogan 24:53 Familiar story.

Andrew Wilson 24:54 Yeah, we had the stay-at-home orders, and I would argue with these dumb liberals on Facebook, and, uh, and they... Oh, man, they pissed me off. And so I started crashing their panels, and I would debate with them. And, um, you know, I had a lot to say, and those things started to become more and more popular, and they would move over to YouTube. People would clip it, and then I started getting invited on to do debates with other people, and I didn't know who these people were. It wasn't my world. Like, I didn't know who any of these podcasters were, you know, stuff like that. I'd listened to it maybe occasionally-

Joe Rogan 25:22 Uh-huh

Andrew Wilson 25:23 ... online, but like, I, I couldn't have told you who, like, Vaush was or Destiny or any of these pe-... Like, I didn't know-

Joe Rogan 25:29 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 25:29 ... who any of them were, um, and I didn't care. To me, it was just some other dumb, smug liberal, you know? So, um, that's where I got my start. I never would have foreseen at all that I'd be sitting here with you.

Joe Rogan 25:42 That's so int- well, I never would have foreseen I would've been here either.

Andrew Wilson 25:46 It's weird, huh?

Joe Rogan 25:47 Yeah, oh, it's weird. Very weird. [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 25:48 And I'll never get used to it.

Joe Rogan 25:50 No.

Andrew Wilson 25:50 You know, you have people walk over, and they're like, "You're Andrew Wilson!" And I'm like, "I'm fucking nobody." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 25:56 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 25:56 "But it's nice to meet you," you know? You shake their hand, you have a chat with them. Uh, I'll never get used to it.

Joe Rogan 26:02 No, you probably shouldn't. It's probably better to not get... I'm not used to it.

Andrew Wilson 26:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:06 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 26:06 Not used to it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:06 It's probably better to not be used to it.

Andrew Wilson 26:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:08 Keep you sane.

Andrew Wilson 26:10 And maybe keep you humble.

Joe Rogan 26:11 Yeah. The- you need something, you need something to keep you humble. We all know people that did not have something that kept them humble, and they lost their, their way. The wheels fall off.

Andrew Wilson 26:21 Yeah, they lose their marbles.

Joe Rogan 26:23 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 26:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:24 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 26:24 Yeah, I think-

Joe Rogan 26:24 Especially as you get more and more famous, it becomes more and more unmanageable.

Andrew Wilson 26:29 I was... I feel like I- I'm pretty well-grounded, uh, due to the fact that, um, I didn't come from a political background. There's no famous people in my family, you know? There's just none of that. And so I feel like the, the grounding's always there because, uh, you know, even, even from the family, you get the call, like, from, from my brother, for instance, like, he's been calling me the... I don't know if you can say the F slur here, so I won't, but he's been calling me-

Joe Rogan 26:52 Faggot?

Andrew Wilson 26:52 Yeah, faggot.

Joe Rogan 26:53 [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 26:53 He's been, you know, he's been, like, the, the phone call since I was 15-

Joe Rogan 26:56 [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 26:56 ... "What are you doing, faggot?" Has not changed.

Joe Rogan 26:58 Good.

Andrew Wilson 26:59 It has not changed, you know. So 42, he's like, "Happy birthday, faggot." [laughing]

Joe Rogan 27:04 [chuckles] That's, that's normal.

Andrew Wilson 27:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:06 I remember you were having a conversation, I think it was on Piers Morgan, who is the, the best cat wrangler in the business.

Andrew Wilson 27:12 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:13 That's what he does, he cat wrangles.

Andrew Wilson 27:14 Yeah, I just talked to him briefly-

Joe Rogan 27:15 Is he okay?

Andrew Wilson 27:16 ... on, on it. Well, that's what I asked him.

Joe Rogan 27:18 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 27:18 I just say... I sent him a DM, and I was like, "Hey, man-"

Joe Rogan 27:19 For people who don't know, he fell.

Andrew Wilson 27:21 Yeah, he fell.

Joe Rogan 27:22 And really fucked himself up.

Andrew Wilson 27:23 And it was the hip.

Joe Rogan 27:24 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 27:24 And at, at his age, the hip, you know, you don't wanna... Nothing with the hip.

Joe Rogan 27:29 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 27:29 Every time I see anybody who's 60s-

Joe Rogan 27:31 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 27:32 ... they get the hip injury, the... It's, it's bad.

Joe Rogan 27:35 Yeah, it's not good. I think they, they think your lifespan at post-hip surgery is, like, 10 years.

Andrew Wilson 27:41 Yeah, it's right, and that, it-

Joe Rogan 27:43 He'll probably be better than that-

Andrew Wilson 27:44 He will

Joe Rogan 27:45 ... 'cause he's wealthy and-

Andrew Wilson 27:45 And I think he's mobile. You know?

Joe Rogan 27:46 Oh, that's good.

Andrew Wilson 27:47 He's mobile. But I asked him-

Joe Rogan 27:48 Well, they're really good at hip replacements now.

Andrew Wilson 27:50 I was like, "What's... You know, are you, are you doing..." He's like, "Yeah, you know, I'm, I'm doing okay." And, and I was like, "Don't fuck around with the hips, dude."

Joe Rogan 27:57 It's crazy that he had to have a hip replacement. Like, how bad was that fall?

Andrew Wilson 28:01 Uh, yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 28:02 I mean-

Andrew Wilson 28:03 I don't know what the details of it were, but-

Joe Rogan 28:05 "I fell like a sack of spuds"-

Andrew Wilson 28:06 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 28:07 ... he wrote. "Wound up needing a new hip after fracturing the neck of his femur, and is recovering from surgery. In addition to being on crutches for six weeks, he won't be allowed to take any long-haul flights for at least 12 weeks. He tripped on a small step inside of a lust- a London restaurant." Wow!

Andrew Wilson 28:24 Resulting in the tumble. You think he was drunk?

Joe Rogan 28:26 He could've been a little fired up.

Andrew Wilson 28:27 A little drunk?

Joe Rogan 28:28 Well, he's also, you know, not the most fit or agile guy in the world.

Andrew Wilson 28:32 True.

Joe Rogan 28:33 You know?

Andrew Wilson 28:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:34 He's only two years older than me.

Andrew Wilson 28:36 No way!

Joe Rogan 28:36 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 28:37 Really?

Joe Rogan 28:37 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 28:39 Uh-

Joe Rogan 28:39 Isn't that crazy?

Andrew Wilson 28:40 Yeah. Damn.

Joe Rogan 28:40 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 28:41 But-

Joe Rogan 28:41 Some people-

Andrew Wilson 28:42 Yeah

Joe Rogan 28:42 ... don't take care of themselves.

Andrew Wilson 28:43 Yeah, he got, he got the crack. [chuckles] Yeah, I gotta quit these.

Joe Rogan 28:46 Mm.

Andrew Wilson 28:46 But yeah, he got the crack on the, on the hip, and I was like, "Man."

Joe Rogan 28:49 Do you think that American Spirits are better than Marlboros for you?

Andrew Wilson 28:54 Probably.

Joe Rogan 28:55 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 28:56 But they taste like shit.

Joe Rogan 28:57 Do they?

Andrew Wilson 28:58 Oh, they're terrible.

Joe Rogan 28:58 Is there a difference?

Andrew Wilson 28:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:59 You really like the Marlboro taste?

Andrew Wilson 29:00 Yeah, I do.

Joe Rogan 29:01 You don't think you'd get used to American Spirits?

Andrew Wilson 29:02 I think I could.

Joe Rogan 29:04 Um-

Andrew Wilson 29:04 I've been trying the cigarillos.

Joe Rogan 29:06 What are those?

Andrew Wilson 29:06 Those have been helpful. Like, the little mini cigarette cigars.

Joe Rogan 29:09 Oh, yeah, Ron White used to smoke those.

Andrew Wilson 29:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:11 He just quit totally. He went to a hypnotist, quit instantaneously, but those are loaded with nicotine. Like, way more nicotine than a cigarette. He was smoking those-

Andrew Wilson 29:23 Yeah, good. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 29:23 What are those little tins? We have those. What are those tins, Jamie? Do you know what they are?

Speaker 29:28 I've not thought about it.

Joe Rogan 29:29 It's like a cig- uh, like, a famous cigar company-

Andrew Wilson 29:32 Mm

Joe Rogan 29:32 ... sells tins of these little, tiny cigars, and it's great if you don't have the time to smoke this.

Andrew Wilson 29:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:38 Like, you get out of a flight, you just wanna have a, a small... But he inhales these motherfuckers-

Andrew Wilson 29:42 Oh, that's-

Joe Rogan 29:43 ... like a cigarette. [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 29:43 That's brutal, dude.

Joe Rogan 29:44 [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 29:45 That'll do you in. And then washes it down with whiskey.

Joe Rogan 29:48 Well, he doesn't drink anymore either.

Andrew Wilson 29:50 No.

Joe Rogan 29:50 He quit drinking.

Andrew Wilson 29:51 Oh.

Joe Rogan 29:51 Yeah. Uh, uh, I think he went through-

Andrew Wilson 29:53 That was always in his bit, though. He was always out there smoking and drinking, and I always thought-

Joe Rogan 29:56 Uh-huh

Andrew Wilson 29:57 ... I love that. It was-

Joe Rogan 29:58 Well, he did it. He did it till the wheels fell off, and then, um, the drinking was the big one. You know, he went to a doctor, and the doctor's like, "You're gonna die."

Andrew Wilson 30:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:09 "Like, your liver is not in good shape. Like, if you back off now, you'll probably live. If you don't, you're not... You got, like, a few years left."

Andrew Wilson 30:16 Well, and alcoholics, too, they have it... I don't know if he was one or not. He might have just been, like, a heavy social drinker, but, like, real alcoholics-... that's no way to live.

Joe Rogan 30:24 No.

Andrew Wilson 30:25 I mean, uh, they stink.

Joe Rogan 30:27 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 30:28 They, they're like, I mean, kind of everything about a real alcoholic is just they look completely unwell. They're just kind of mangled, you know?

Joe Rogan 30:36 Yeah. [scoffs] It's a weird disease, too, uh, in that that addiction is one that you can't quit. You can't just cold turkey.

Andrew Wilson 30:43 Yeah, you'll die.

Joe Rogan 30:44 You'll die!

Andrew Wilson 30:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:45 There's only a couple of things that'll just kill you if you quit right away-

Andrew Wilson 30:49 Yeah

Joe Rogan 30:49 ... and alcohol is one of them, which is really crazy, 'cause it gets integrated into your biological system, where you need it to stay alive. Your body's like, "Okay, we're gonna use this for fuel. We're gonna use this to function," even though it's poison.

Andrew Wilson 31:00 Yeah, they've been weaning people off alcohol with beer for centuries.

Joe Rogan 31:04 Is that what they used?

Andrew Wilson 31:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:05 Beer?

Andrew Wilson 31:05 Yeah, they used beer.

Joe Rogan 31:06 Interesting.

Andrew Wilson 31:06 They would just go, "Okay..." And well, it was pretty common to drink beer and ale with dinner, you know?

Joe Rogan 31:11 Right.

Andrew Wilson 31:11 They'd just wean you off with beer.

Joe Rogan 31:13 That makes sense.

Andrew Wilson 31:14 They knew, they knew that hundreds of years ago. There's books on and, how alcohol, you know, what are they... Consumption or whatever-

Joe Rogan 31:20 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 31:20 ... they called it. Uh, they, it killed you if you just, if you just quit, if you were an alcoholic, and so they'd wean you off with beer.

Joe Rogan 31:26 Wonder when they started making w- hard liquor? 'Cause you would imagine, like, fermented things like wine and beer were, like, the first things that people consumed.

Andrew Wilson 31:36 I think it's been around for thousands, I mean, several thousand years.

Joe Rogan 31:39 I wonder, I wonder, like, how they figured it out, too.

Andrew Wilson 31:41 I mean, the biggest, the biggest, uh, what was it? The biggest distributor in Europe of wine was the Catholic Church.

Joe Rogan 31:47 Well, wine has certainly been around-

Andrew Wilson 31:48 Yeah

Joe Rogan 31:48 ... forever. But, like, what about hard liquor? Jimmy, put that into our sponsor, Perplexity. When was the first, uh, well, known... I mean, we don't really know, 'cause there's so much weird shit about history. But, like, what was the first in, like, documented hard liquor, like whiskey, vodka, shit like that? That's the stuff, that's the stuff that kills you. If you die from beer, boy, you- you're fucking... You're going hard. Like, Shane Gillis will sit here on a podcast and drink 16 Bud Lights. [chuckles] Um, first alcohol drinks were fermented things like beer, wine, mead, okay, thousands of years before true liquor. Okay, first lec- recognizable liquor appears when people begin to distill. Archeological evidence shows fermented drinks, okay, that's around 7000 BCE. So clear evidence of true alcohol distillation, Chinese rice beer distil- distillates by about 800 BCE.

Andrew Wilson 32:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:49 So a couple thousand years.

Andrew Wilson 32:50 A couple thousand years, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:51 Yeah. Eh, okay. Wine into strong spirits, the Arab alchemists. Al-kuhl. Oh, interesting, using the term al-kuhl, the root of alcohol.

Andrew Wilson 33:04 Well, and they used, they used alcohol as a base for, for alchemy, too. That was a base-

Joe Rogan 33:10 Really?

Andrew Wilson 33:10 ... for trying to transmute metal, yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:12 I wonder if they were ever successful.

Andrew Wilson 33:14 They were never successful.

Joe Rogan 33:15 Nothing?

Andrew Wilson 33:15 No.

Joe Rogan 33:16 It seems like a crazy thing to waste so much time on, trying to turn lead into gold.

Andrew Wilson 33:20 I mean, there, the, there was whole kingdoms spent trying to figure out how to do this.

Joe Rogan 33:25 Wild!

Andrew Wilson 33:25 And it's just like... And they never... I mean, you think about it, it makes sense, right? If you're the first one, if you're the one who knows-

Joe Rogan 33:32 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 33:32 ... like, you can just create as much wealth for yourself [chuckles] as you want.

Joe Rogan 33:36 Oh, yeah.

Andrew Wilson 33:37 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 33:37 It's just amazing that they kept trying.

Andrew Wilson 33:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:40 Must have been someone saying that they got it. "I got it, dude. Just give me some money."

Andrew Wilson 33:43 Oh, there was tons of frauds.

Joe Rogan 33:44 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 33:44 There was tons of frauds who were alchemists, who, you know, they were the, that century's version of a snake oil salesman, you know?

Joe Rogan 33:51 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 33:51 "Yeah, of course, we can, we can turn..." And there, there was ones, even in the '90s, who were like, "We can now turn [chuckles] you know, base metals into gold."

Joe Rogan 33:58 I think there's something now where they can make some gold, but I think it takes an incredible amount of energy-

Andrew Wilson 34:09 Yeah

Joe Rogan 34:10 ... and-

Andrew Wilson 34:10 Costs more to make than it's worth.

Joe Rogan 34:11 Right.

Andrew Wilson 34:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:12 I think it's one of them deals. Is that a fact? I feel like I've read something like that fairly recently, but it's... Here's a weird one: why gold? Like, why does anybody give a fuck about this metal that you can't even use?

Andrew Wilson 34:26 There's not much of it.

Joe Rogan 34:27 Right, that's true.

Andrew Wilson 34:28 There's very... What are they saying? There's, uh, 90% of all the gold ever discovered still is in circulation.

Joe Rogan 34:34 Right.

Andrew Wilson 34:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:35 Yeah. Well, China just found a, a huge vein of gold, a, a- an enormous amount. But I mean, when you say enormous, it's like relative-

Andrew Wilson 34:42 Yeah

Joe Rogan 34:43 ... because I think the entire world's supply of gold would fit inside of a football field.

Andrew Wilson 34:48 Yeah, there's not much of it.

Joe Rogan 34:49 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 34:49 It's very... I mean, and very little of it is worth a lot. I mean, even if you think of pirate's treasure chest, you know, it's not actually that much gold.

Joe Rogan 34:56 Right. Right.

Andrew Wilson 34:57 So it's, uh, yeah, it's ex-

Joe Rogan 34:58 It's a box of gold as opposed to-

Andrew Wilson 35:00 It's extremely valuable

Joe Rogan 35:01 ... how much a pound it is.

Andrew Wilson 35:01 And also, you can do things with it you can't do with other metals. The same thing with silver, you know?

Joe Rogan 35:05 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 35:07 Silver-

Joe Rogan 35:07 Scientists mimicking the Big Bang accidentally turned lead into gold. Yeah, so this is the thing. But I mean, again, I think mimicking the Big Bang, like, what are they using, a particle collider? Like, what are they doing? Okay, how'd they do it? How to steal a proton. Protons form the nucleus of an atom, so extremely small amounts. In fact, a total of some 29 trillionths of a gram they made. Okay, smashing lead atoms into each other extreme- so it is a particle collider, I guess. Uh, the, uh, working on the ALICE experiment and the Large Hadron Collider... Yeah, there it is. In Switzerland, inc- [chuckles] incidentally produced small amounts of gold.

Andrew Wilson 35:45 You just need a, [chuckles] you just need a particle collider.

Joe Rogan 35:48 You need a particle collider.

Andrew Wilson 35:48 That's all. No big deal.

Joe Rogan 35:49 No big deal.

Andrew Wilson 35:50 You just build it into a whole mountain, and now they're building a second one, [chuckles] they said.

Joe Rogan 35:54 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 35:55 Building it into a new mountain.

Joe Rogan 35:56 Right. [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 35:57 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 35:58 Well, there was one, they were putting... During the Clinton administration, they were building a particle collider somewhere in the middle of America. I'm trying to figure out where it was.

Andrew Wilson 36:08 I'm certain there's already more than one.

Joe Rogan 36:10 Oh, there's many particle colliders.

Andrew Wilson 36:11 Yeah, but I'm certain there's ones that are, that are even-

Joe Rogan 36:14 Hidden?

Andrew Wilson 36:14 ... probably larger and hidden than the one that's currently there, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:17 Really? You think so?

Andrew Wilson 36:18 Yeah. Oh, for sure.

Joe Rogan 36:19 What do you think they're doing with them?

Andrew Wilson 36:20 Well, I mean, the military applications for that are, uh, like, they're enormous, right? The idea that, uh, you could make, like, some kind of particle weapon, [chuckles] you know, or something like this.

Joe Rogan 36:32 Oh, right, right, right.

Andrew Wilson 36:33 Um-... yeah, there's no way that the, that the US military is gonna let scientists have a gadget like that somewhere that they don't have complete control over. There's no way.

Joe Rogan 36:42 I wonder, because I, uh, I don't know what kind of military applications you would have for particle colliders. I mean, for sure-

Andrew Wilson 36:52 Big explosions, right?

Joe Rogan 36:54 There's probab- yeah, but you're just... You've got a giant loop, and you're-

Andrew Wilson 36:58 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 36:58 -slinging-

Andrew Wilson 36:59 Smashing things together-

Joe Rogan 37:00 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 37:00 ... right?

Joe Rogan 37:00 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 37:01 So what, I mean, what do you do?

Joe Rogan 37:02 Like a hair on the speed of light.

Andrew Wilson 37:03 You smash things together, you can make them go boomy-boom, right?

Joe Rogan 37:05 Kind of.

Andrew Wilson 37:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:06 Well, the real concern with the Large Hadron Collider was they were gonna create mini black holes-

Andrew Wilson 37:10 Yeah

Joe Rogan 37:10 ... that were gonna eat their way through the Earth, that you wouldn't be able to stop them. They would just, like, slide through the Earth.

Andrew Wilson 37:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:16 You know? There's a lot of-

Andrew Wilson 37:17 Yeah, I heard that. I heard there was concern they were gonna open up a portal to a different dimension. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 37:21 [laughing] Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 37:21 I've heard... Like, I've-

Joe Rogan 37:23 They did.

Andrew Wilson 37:23 Yeah, I've heard, uh-

Joe Rogan 37:24 They changed our timeline

Andrew Wilson 37:24 ... all sorts of things. Yeah, we changed our timeline. We're on the new timeline, you know?

Joe Rogan 37:29 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 37:29 The, uh, the, the whole nine yards. I've, I've, I've heard it all. I'm just saying that anything... Uh, it's just been my experience, look, when I look through the historic record, that if there's any scientific gadget out there that looks like it has the potential to make something go boom, the United States military has a version of it somewhere.

Joe Rogan 37:45 Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. But for whatever reason, they abandoned this one during the Clinton administration. I, I don't remember why they abandoned it, but you could... People can, if they have access to the area where it's at, can still go inside of it and see, like, what they started to build, but they never did. But it would've been larger than the Large Hadron Collider.

Andrew Wilson 38:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:08 I wanna say it's in Georgia. I don't remember, though, but it's a... It was gonna be an enormous particle collider.

Andrew Wilson 38:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:15 And for some reason, they just stopped funding to this thing, but-

Andrew Wilson 38:19 Well, they're talking about funding another, another one that's twice the size of the one that they have now. They say that they need more room to smash more particles together.

Joe Rogan 38:28 What are they trying to do?

Andrew Wilson 38:30 I have no idea. Like, that is way outside of, of my domain. Um, I can tell you, uh, I- probably the same things you've heard, right?

Joe Rogan 38:38 Uh-huh.

Andrew Wilson 38:38 Is, uh, they're trying to smash small particles together to see what happens. That's what the, kinda the official story is.

Joe Rogan 38:45 Right.

Andrew Wilson 38:45 But it's funny, because every time a new story comes out, it's like, "Scientists smash this together with this, and this happens." And I'm always like: "Okay, but what does that mean?"

Joe Rogan 38:52 Mm.

Andrew Wilson 38:52 And you never get any of that, right?

Joe Rogan 38:54 Right. This one was in Texas. Oh, it was in Texas? Yeah. Yeah, the Clinton... Okay, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Spent $2 billion on it and abandoned it. Yeah, I wonder- It's outside of Dallas. See if you can find some images of it. Yeah, it's outside of Dallas. Oh, it is outside of Dallas. Yeah. Okay. "Abandoned superconducting super collider site in 2008." Wow! I wonder if you could buy it. That'd be fucking awesome.

Andrew Wilson 39:16 Get [chuckles] set up Rogan's-

Joe Rogan 39:18 Set up a podcast studio

Andrew Wilson 39:18 ... Rogan's own-

Joe Rogan 39:18 [laughing]

Andrew Wilson 39:19 ... particle collider.

Joe Rogan 39:20 I mean, there's nothing there. It's just concrete. [coughs]

Andrew Wilson 39:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:22 Let me buy it.

Andrew Wilson 39:23 Just finish it.

Joe Rogan 39:23 What's the big deal?

Andrew Wilson 39:24 Like that weird time machine out in the desert?

Joe Rogan 39:26 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 39:26 That was really funny.

Joe Rogan 39:27 Let me set up an archery range inside of it. We confirmed this stuff last week. "Department of War confirms plans to scale direct energy weapons."

Andrew Wilson 39:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:33 Did you see that thing that China made?

Andrew Wilson 39:35 Why would, why would they need a par- a hydro collider, though, right? Or, uh, you know-

Joe Rogan 39:38 Right

Andrew Wilson 39:38 ... a particle collid- Well, because they, they wanna make sh- stuff go boom.

Joe Rogan 39:41 Yeah, direct energy weapons.

Andrew Wilson 39:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:44 "Yes, Department of War has direct energy weapons. Yes, we are scaling them." Wow!

Andrew Wilson 39:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:48 Conspiracy theorists went wild over this. Oh, of course. "Told ya!" Well, that was a lot of people, the real cookie ones.

Andrew Wilson 39:53 I want my fallout rifle, though. I do.

Joe Rogan 39:54 Is that-

Andrew Wilson 39:54 I want my plasma rifle.

Joe Rogan 39:56 Right.

Andrew Wilson 39:56 I do.

Joe Rogan 39:56 A real gun.

Andrew Wilson 39:56 Like, if they have plasma rifles, you can buy one, right?

Joe Rogan 39:59 Oh, yeah!

Andrew Wilson 39:59 No, for sure.

Joe Rogan 40:00 You'd probably get a tax stamp. It'd probably be, like, a lengthy thing to get through.

Andrew Wilson 40:03 Oh, for sure.

Joe Rogan 40:04 Um, I'm glad you're a, a gun guy, 'cause I want- I wanted to bring up this whole thing with this guy, uh, Pretty.

Andrew Wilson 40:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:11 And I, I haven't talked about it. We haven't done a podcast since, uh, that guy got killed. Um, but that whole thing, for... There's a lot of people that don't understand what's going on, and, um, why riots only in Minneapolis? And why riots-

Andrew Wilson 40:28 Mm

Joe Rogan 40:28 ... in the place where there's an ungodly amount of fraud that has been discovered?

Andrew Wilson 40:34 Coincidentally-

Joe Rogan 40:34 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 40:35 ... right around the same time.

Joe Rogan 40:36 Exactly. Like, instantaneously afterwards, the narrative completely changes. Everybody forgets about the fraud. Now, all anybody cares about is ICE, and fascists, and Nazis.

Andrew Wilson 40:46 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:46 And, um, it's, uh... There's a... You know what a color revolution is?

Andrew Wilson 40:51 Of course.

Joe Rogan 40:51 And for people that don't, it's, it's a coordinated effort to cause chaos, and this is a very coordinated thing. The idea that this is an organic protest, that this is, these are, these riots are organic, is nonsense. Um, it's provably nonsense, 'cause now they have access to the Signal chats, so they know that these... So these people-

Andrew Wilson 41:13 Cam Higbie, by the way-

Joe Rogan 41:14 Yes!

Andrew Wilson 41:15 ... he was a... He's been on the front lines of this. Um, The Crucible has been a big supporter of that effort, uh, my channel. Um, I will often snipe his coverage while it's going on, send my audience over to send in super chats in order to keep this guy going. I think that that work is critical.

Joe Rogan 41:33 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 41:33 It's critical work, and there's not that many people doing it anymore because of how dangerous it has become.

Joe Rogan 41:39 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 41:39 And so I'm a big supporter of that. Doesn't mean I agree with everything he says politically, but what he's doing on the ground there needs to happen.

Joe Rogan 41:46 Right. We need... You need to understand that this isn't organic, regardless of how you feel. I don't feel that that guy should have been shot, um, but I understand what happened, and what happened was chaos. So what hap- first of all, it wasn't ICE. People need to understand that. [coughs] It was, uh, Customs and Border Patrol people. So they were brought in to assist ICE. Um, and they're telling this lady to stand away, and then this cop gets very aggressive and shoves her. Um, you have to understand the situation that they're in, right? And this is not making an excuse for any of it, but you have to just... Just to put it into context, these people are getting harassed outside of any hotel they're at. People blow horns. They try to smash into the hotel.

Andrew Wilson 42:32 They dox them.

Joe Rogan 42:33 They dox them.

Andrew Wilson 42:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 42:34 It's why they're wearing masks. It's a coordinated effort.... I'm not saying that guy should have shoved that guy. I don't think he should have, or that woman. I don't think he should have, and then pepper sprayed. And then the guy who got shot, Pretty, he steps in, which is, if you know anything about concealed carry, if you are a concealed carry holder, and you are carrying not just a pistol, but two full magazines as well, you do not ever physically engage with someone. You also are supposed to carry your license on you, and you're supposed to, uh, you're supposed to have ID on you.

Andrew Wilson 43:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:09 All right? You, you-

Andrew Wilson 43:10 And you're trained-

Joe Rogan 43:11 Yes

Andrew Wilson 43:11 ... specifically for this, by the way. I was a CPL instructor for years.

Joe Rogan 43:14 Okay.

Andrew Wilson 43:15 And-

Joe Rogan 43:15 So you know about it.

Andrew Wilson 43:15 The, the thing is, there's a framework here, if you don't mind if I add to your framework-

Joe Rogan 43:21 Please.

Andrew Wilson 43:21 The framework here is this is a mathematical formula. So I've been following these extremely closely live, um, and looking at, at how this is done. Let's go backwards in time. You remember what was going on in California? Nobody died in California. There was an ICE raid on a Home Depot, and they went nuts, and they started smashing police cars, they were starting fires, right? There, there- this was not over somebody dying, and now the narrative, they're trying to make the narrative shift, the Gestapo is in here, you know, murdering American citizens. Well, and what, what was going on in California then? Because there was no American citizens getting murdered there. What was going on there was they did an ICE raid in a Home Depot, which anybody who's been to California knows, [laughs] that, uh, you know, there's... It used to be that you'd drive down the street, and they would all hang out in front of the Home Depot, and you'd say, "Two."

Joe Rogan 44:10 Right.

Andrew Wilson 44:10 And they'd hop in the truck, and you would, you know-

Joe Rogan 44:12 Day laborers

Andrew Wilson 44:12 ... they would go- yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:13 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 44:13 They were day laborers, right? So it didn't surprise me that they were there doing daily raids. Okay, that doesn't surprise me a bit. Uh, and they, they all went ballistic. Now, here's what was very curious about the coverage of that, and I had a debate with a couple of leftists on this. What I saw was what looked to me to be a police stand-down order. There was people who were breaking in to, I don't remember if it was an Amco or a 7-Eleven, but they were busting into it, and the cops were, were on the side corner watching this go down and didn't do anything. They didn't do anything about it.

Joe Rogan 44:42 Right.

Andrew Wilson 44:43 Okay? They'd- if it got too rowdy, they'd clear it out, and then they let them continue. It looked like a stand-down order, like, you don't, you don't involve yourself. Well, what I think these guys have figured out is a mathematical formula, and it works like this: the, if the local police are not going to protect the federal buildings, then it's left to the federal police to do this, right? In this case, ICE is gonna protect its own buildings, the FBI is gonna protect its own buildings. If the local police aren't gonna protect it, and it's surrounded, then who, who does the protection then? And this is why Trump, he unleashes the National Guard, but where? To those federal buildings, to protect those federal buildings. That was the whole point of it. That's wh- and, and basically, anytime he's unleashed the National Guard that I've seen, it's to federal buildings to protect them. And so, uh, the mathematical formula works like this: the longer it is that protesters are engaging with federal officers, whose job is not to do basic street cleanup of thugs, that's the local PD's job, uh, the chances that there's an incident, which is gonna be a bad incident, is going to occur. So basically, the longer you're there, the, the more attrition there is, the more engagements you have with, with these federal officers over time, eventually-

Joe Rogan 45:56 Yes

Andrew Wilson 45:56 ... there's going to be something which is out of pocket that happens or something which is escalatory that happens, and they're banking on that.

Joe Rogan 46:03 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 46:03 And that's why ICE is out in front of these bui- or not ICE, the Antifa people are still out in front of the ICE buildings in front of many states night after night after night, and it's designed specifically to make sure... It's just ma- a math formula, right? The longer we're here, and the less the local PD involves itself, the more chance of incident between federal officers and us.

Joe Rogan 46:23 You're knocking steel against flint.

Andrew Wilson 46:25 Yep.

Joe Rogan 46:25 Yeah, you're, you're-

Andrew Wilson 46:26 Waiting for the fire.

Joe Rogan 46:27 Yeah, you're waiting for sparks.

Andrew Wilson 46:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:28 And, um, in this particular instance, this guy, uh, clearly had been very involved. Uh, I don't know if he was, uh, a part of the Signal chats, but when you go to what's supposed to be a peaceful protest, and you're fully armed like that, and with two magazines, it's kind of crazy, right? Like, what do you- why do you need so many bullets?

Andrew Wilson 46:50 Now the liberals are all so pro-Second Amendment, too. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 46:53 That is wild! [laughs]

Andrew Wilson 46:54 They're all pro-Second Amendment.

Joe Rogan 46:55 That's absolutely wild, which I'm for.

Andrew Wilson 46:56 "He had every right!"

Joe Rogan 46:58 I-

Andrew Wilson 46:58 I, I tell... He didn't last month, but-

Joe Rogan 47:00 Right

Andrew Wilson 47:00 ... okay. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 47:01 I like it.

Andrew Wilson 47:01 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 47:01 I like where it's going.

Andrew Wilson 47:03 Sure.

Joe Rogan 47:03 I like that, 'cause that's kind of a trap.

Andrew Wilson 47:04 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 47:05 Um, did you see what M- MSNBC did to his image?

Andrew Wilson 47:08 Yeah. They were they, where they gussied it up?

Joe Rogan 47:10 Basically did the opposite of what CNN did to me. You know, CNN, during the COVID times, turned me green-

Andrew Wilson 47:15 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 47:16 ... and, uh, they made me ugly and look like I was dying, and they made him handsome-

Andrew Wilson 47:20 Yeah

Joe Rogan 47:20 ... so people would be more sympathetic-

Andrew Wilson 47:22 Of course

Joe Rogan 47:22 ... to him getting shot, which is kind of wild. Like, are ugly people less valuable to MSNBC?

Andrew Wilson 47:28 Less marketable.

Joe Rogan 47:29 That is crazy to me! Like, look at the difference.

Andrew Wilson 47:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:34 Look at the difference. They shortened up his face. They gave him a little bit of a tan. They widened his face a little bit, it seems like. They just made him a little handsomer.

Andrew Wilson 47:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:44 A little hotter.

Andrew Wilson 47:44 They gave him, gave him a bit of that Chad jaw, didn't they?

Joe Rogan 47:46 They shrunk his nose a little, too, didn't they?

Andrew Wilson 47:48 Yeah. Yeah, they did.

Joe Rogan 47:49 They did. They shrunk his nose-

Andrew Wilson 47:50 Yeah

Joe Rogan 47:50 ... gave him a little bit of a handsome jaw.

Andrew Wilson 47:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:52 So he looks like an American-

Andrew Wilson 47:54 Even made him... If you look at the shoulders, it even looks like they, uh, they may have plumped up the shoulders there a bit.

Joe Rogan 47:59 A little bit, yeah.

Andrew Wilson 48:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:00 The one on the right looks like-

Andrew Wilson 48:02 Yeah

Joe Rogan 48:02 ... looks like he's a little plumper.

Andrew Wilson 48:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:03 Yeah. Yeah, they, they changed the tone of the color. Wild. [chuckles] I mean, they- look at they, they changed his fucking teeth, man.

Andrew Wilson 48:12 [chuckles] Communist News Network.

Joe Rogan 48:12 Look, they gave him veneers.

Andrew Wilson 48:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:14 Like, look at the difference in his teeth. He's a much more handsome guy. Like, the one on the right is, like, the handsome brother, and the one on the left is like, "Fuck!"

Andrew Wilson 48:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:23 "Why couldn't I look like my goddamn brother?"

Andrew Wilson 48:25 Yeah, the one on the right... Yeah, the one on the right, he- they were twins, and he took more of the protein.

Joe Rogan 48:29 Right.

Andrew Wilson 48:29 Right? That was what-

Joe Rogan 48:30 [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 48:30 ... that was what happened. The thing is, is like, this doesn't surprise me, by the way. Uh, this is, um-... w- what's going on, and it, this is a well-orchestrated, well-crafted thing.

Joe Rogan 48:41 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 48:41 And the Signal chats prove that, but we knew it anyway.

Joe Rogan 48:44 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 48:45 Just by the-

Joe Rogan 48:45 Involving government, by the way.

Andrew Wilson 48:47 Yes.

Joe Rogan 48:47 Allegedly, at least, involving Minnesota State Government.

Andrew Wilson 48:50 Well, it involves Walz.

Joe Rogan 48:51 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 48:51 So that's not alleged.

Joe Rogan 48:53 Right.

Andrew Wilson 48:53 You know?

Joe Rogan 48:53 That's not alleged.

Andrew Wilson 48:54 It's not alleged that it involves Walz, it's not alleged that it involves Frey.

Joe Rogan 48:57 Right.

Andrew Wilson 48:58 And it's not alleged... Well, what, what is alleged is the allegations of fraud, of course, but, um-

Joe Rogan 49:02 But there would be a reason why you would want to distract from all that fraud.

Andrew Wilson 49:06 Sure.

Joe Rogan 49:07 And that would motivate you to do something along these lines. So let's go back to the, the instance. So, um, you've got these cops that are on- these CBP guys that are on high alert, right? There's a lot of tension. People are screaming. If you're in an environment like that all day... Look, I've never been a police officer, but I was a security guard, and when I was- I was a security guard for Great Woods. And, by the way, I'm not comparing this in any way, but I'm just explaining my mentality when I was there. It was very much us versus them. It was a small group of guys that were, uh, uh, working at, uh... I, I worked at Great Woods Center for the Performing Arts in Mansfield, Massachusetts. It's a concert venue-

Andrew Wilson 49:51 Mm

Joe Rogan 49:51 ... in Mansfield, and this was when I was fighting. So it was me and, uh, a bunch of guys from my taekwondo team got hired to be security guards. One of the guys came and said, "Hey, you guys wanna, uh, get a job working as a security guard? It's great. You get to see concerts," and it was, like, a good pay. And, you know, I was doing a bunch of random jobs back then while I was competing, just to sort of pay bills. And I said, "Yeah, okay, what do I have to do?" And they're like, "It's nothing. You just go there, and you work." First day on the job, I go there. Some guy had stolen one of the security golf carts. So there's this dude named Alley Cat, he was the head guy of security. He was a fucking character, hilarious. His main dream was to open up a, a, a bar, Libati- Alley Cat's Libations and Victuals. He had this whole dream. It was, like, just a real character. But this guy was a hardcore motherfucker, and, uh, they caught the guy who, uh, stole this golf cart, tackled him to the ground, and he was beating him in the face with a walkie-talkie. This is my first day on the job, so I'm like, "Okay, so this is what we're doing." And we kind of became, like, almost like cops for this place, but there was very much an us versus them mentality. And, uh, it turns out it was a lot more involved than I ever thought it was. And then one day, I was at a Neil Young concert. I was working the Neil Young concert, and riots broke out. There was fire... It was cold out, and there was, like, a grassy area, so there was, like, a lawn. So it was like there's the inside-- not inside, it was, like, an outdoor concert venue, but there was a roofed part of it, and then the back of it was, like, this lawn area that was in the back, and these guys had started bonfires up there. And we, we were supposed to go in there and break up the bonfires. And then my friend Larry, who was, like, one of the most mild-mannered guys you'd ever want to meet, but, you know, a, a elite black belt, he gets in a fight with this guy, and some guy pushes him, and he knocks this guy down. And I'm like, "Okay, chaos has broken out. Let's get the fu-," I'm like, "Let's quit. Let's get the fuck out of here." And I used to wear a hoodie. I used to carry a hoodie, so I could just zip up the hoodie over my security outfit and, like, "Bye!" Um, 'cause I knew there was gonna come a time where I was like, "I'm not getting shot, stabbed, killed, whatever-

Andrew Wilson 52:03 Over this venue

Joe Rogan 52:04 ... stomped to death for 20 bucks an hour-

Andrew Wilson 52:05 Yeah

Joe Rogan 52:05 ... or whatever the fuck I was getting.

Andrew Wilson 52:07 Screw that.

Joe Rogan 52:07 So I, I wound up leaving that day. But you- there was a very... And I, it w- I remember very clearly, like, oh, this is probably what happens with cops times a million. Like, you develop this us versus them, 'cause it was very much us. We would meet up at the beginning of our shift. We would all talk about what's going down. We're- mostly, we were catching people that were bringing in alcohol, like, women in their purses, which, you know, was, you know, like, uh, some Carly Simon or something be playing, they'd sneak in a bottle of wine that, you know... And James Taylor. You know, there was a lot of that. And so we'd, we'd have, like, literal fucking trash cans filled with bottles of wine and liquor at the end of the night. We would get to keep them. We'd take them home. And so this us versus them-

Andrew Wilson 52:50 Well, that's a nice perk.

Joe Rogan 52:52 It was kind of fun.

Andrew Wilson 52:52 Yeah, that's a nice perk.

Joe Rogan 52:53 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 52:54 He's like, uh-

Joe Rogan 52:54 Plus, I was illegal to drink. I was only 19 at the time, but-

Andrew Wilson 52:58 An even nicer perk? [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 53:00 Yeah. [chuckles] It was, it was very clearly us versus them, and the tensions were very high.

Andrew Wilson 53:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:06 Like, whenever some weird shit went down, everybody puffed up their chest, and everybody was ready to throw down. And I was like, "This job is not good," but it, it educated me. I was like, "Ok-" And I, in my mind, I was like, "Okay, this must be like this when you're a police officer, again, times a million." Uh, that is... To think of what's going on-

Andrew Wilson 53:24 Well, isn't that why they have their codes, right? They have the, they have their oaths they take, and then they have their little codes to each other, too.

Joe Rogan 53:30 Exactly. Exactly.

Andrew Wilson 53:30 But I wouldn't- I don't blame them.

Joe Rogan 53:33 I don't blame them, either.

Andrew Wilson 53:33 Like, it seems completely... Uh, there's a, a certain wisdom to this. Like, "Hey, look, that could be me."

Joe Rogan 53:39 100%.

Andrew Wilson 53:39 "And so if it's you, I, I'm gonna be right there with you."

Joe Rogan 53:42 100%.

Andrew Wilson 53:42 "And then if it's me, you're gonna be right there with me." I get it.

Joe Rogan 53:46 Also, there's a tremendous amount of social media content that anybody could access at any given time, where a lot of these dorks are calling for violence. You know, it's just, it's all over the place. You could find it.

Andrew Wilson 53:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:59 The least likely people that would ever be involved in any sort of an altercation are on TikTok calling for violence. "We've got to kill these motherfuckers. We've got to shoot these motherfuckers." And these guys are out there in the middle of that, all right? So tensions are high as fuck, and they're getting screamed at all the time. They're on red alert. They're wearing vests. They're carrying guns.

Andrew Wilson 54:19 Well, their wives are getting called and threatened, and, uh, they're saying they're gonna rape their kids.

Joe Rogan 54:23 Exactly.

Andrew Wilson 54:23 And they're saying that they're gonna brutalize their family members.

Joe Rogan 54:26 Exactly.

Andrew Wilson 54:26 And they give them calls in the middle of the night, and they whisper to them, "Well, how's your dad such and such doing?" You know, and just cryptic things like that, and let it go.

Joe Rogan 54:33 Uh-huh. Exactly, and this is very coordinated. It's very coordinated and organized, and the way they find out all their information is very creepy. So-... again, I don't think this guy should have pushed that lady. I mean, the way he did it was very violent. She was a small woman, and he, he shoved her very violently to the ground. Then this other guy, Pretty, gets in between them, okay? Which, again, if you are a concealed carry holder, is a giant no-no. You do not fucking do that. You do not engage with law enforcement when you're armed. You shouldn't engage with anyone. [coughs]

Andrew Wilson 55:06 Ever.

Joe Rogan 55:07 Ever. I mean-

Andrew Wilson 55:07 You should be avoiding- you should be trained to avoid conflict.

Joe Rogan 55:11 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 55:11 That's the whole thing, is like-

Joe Rogan 55:13 Yes

Andrew Wilson 55:13 ... uh, if you're, if you're armed, you move into that next level of, you need to really be avoiding conflict. You're not supposed to be in bars drinking.

Joe Rogan 55:20 Exactly.

Andrew Wilson 55:20 You're not supposed to be, uh, you know, at big parties and things like this, where violent things can occur.

Joe Rogan 55:25 Exactly.

Andrew Wilson 55:26 You know, you can take it to church, defend the church.

Joe Rogan 55:28 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 55:28 Other than that-

Joe Rogan 55:29 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 55:29 ... like, you're supposed to be avoiding con- conflict.

Joe Rogan 55:31 Exactly. So, uh, he gets in between the officer and this woman, puts his hands on the officer-

Andrew Wilson 55:39 Yep

Joe Rogan 55:40 ... and then he gets pepper sprayed. They go to the ground. There's a lot of scrambling going on. Now, you have to understand what happens when you get pepper sprayed, okay? Uh, I've never been pepper sprayed, but I did get tear-gassed once w- during Fear Factor. We did a, a Fear Factor stunt where these people had to... I forget what they had to do, but we, we had built this, or there was, like, a structure, and they were inside the structure, and they released tear gas in the structure. I got hit with it. It's pretty brutal, but-

Andrew Wilson 56:07 It's painful.

Joe Rogan 56:08 Yeah, it sucks.

Andrew Wilson 56:09 And you can't breathe.

Joe Rogan 56:10 You can't breathe.

Andrew Wilson 56:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:11 Your eyes swell up. Your, your nose-

Andrew Wilson 56:13 You start gagging

Joe Rogan 56:13 ... starts running like crazy. Yeah. Um-

Andrew Wilson 56:15 And that shit stays on your clothes, too.

Joe Rogan 56:17 You don't think well when that happens. So this, this guy's clearly not thinking well, and he can't see, and he's, you know... And then they're on him, right? So they're on him, and then one guy, whether he yells out, "He's got a gun," or grabs the gun first, I, I'm not sure, but there- he has a gun. So they see his gun in the middle of the scramble, the guy pulls his gun out and moves off. Now, this is where it gets, this is where it gets weird. Uh, I believe the gun was a SIG P320. A, a S- a P- SIG P320 is known for having accidental discharges. It is, uh, it has a reputation for it. It has a very s- specific type of striker. It doesn't have, uh, a, a safety the way some other guns do, and you can have negligent discharges with SIGs.

Andrew Wilson 57:11 Now, is the, the P320, is that a hammered model?

Joe Rogan 57:14 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 57:15 Okay, so it's not a striker fire.

Joe Rogan 57:16 No, wait a minute. No, no, it is a striker fire. It's... Let's, well, let's f- let's pull, let's pull it up, 'cause I'm not-

Andrew Wilson 57:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:22 I know the 365 is built very differently. The p- the 320 breaks cleaner, but-

Andrew Wilson 57:28 Yeah, I thought the 320-

Joe Rogan 57:29 ... if it drops-

Andrew Wilson 57:29 ... had a hammer, was double action and single action, and then I d- I, I-

Joe Rogan 57:34 You might be right.

Andrew Wilson 57:34 I didn't think it was a striker fire. Most of the P models are not striker fires, that I'm aware of. I could be wrong.

Joe Rogan 57:40 Well, the 365, the P365 is definitely different than the 320.

Andrew Wilson 57:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:44 They have a different striking mechanisms. They're known for accidental discharges.

Andrew Wilson 57:48 Okay. Um, I can't tell if that's a hammer underneath the slide.

Joe Rogan 57:52 Well, let's, um, just g- just w- what is this- what is the trigger mechanism of a SIG P320? Put that in there. And what is it, uh, that makes it prone to accidental discharges? If, if you look up SIG P320 online in any search engine, accidental discharge comes up very quickly.

Andrew Wilson 58:12 Oh, it is striker fired.

Joe Rogan 58:13 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 58:13 Okay.

Joe Rogan 58:13 Okay.

Andrew Wilson 58:14 So it's a modular striker fire trigger mechanism. Uh, when pressed, trigger bar moves forward, disengages safety lever and sear, releasing the striker. Okay, so it's a striker-fired pistol.

Joe Rogan 58:23 Right.

Andrew Wilson 58:23 Okay, got it.

Joe Rogan 58:24 So as of, uh, 2017, SIG changed the way they make their guns, because the trigger itself was heavier than what it is now. And not just the pull, but the actual mechanism of the trigger was heavier. If you drop it, so if, uh, this is the barrel of the gun-

Andrew Wilson 58:43 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 58:43 ... where the bullet comes out, and this is where you're holding it in your hand-

Andrew Wilson 58:45 It disconnects

Joe Rogan 58:46 ... if you drop it, it'll, it'll discharge.

Andrew Wilson 58:48 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:48 And it'll discharge without rot- without moving the slide, which is kind of crazy. Because what happens is, something in the dropping it [gun drops] on the back where the handle is-

Andrew Wilson 58:58 Releases the disconnector, probably

Joe Rogan 59:00 ... it, it causes that heavier trigger, the heavier weight to the trigger-

Andrew Wilson 59:03 Yeah

Joe Rogan 59:04 ... to drop down, and it will discharge.

Andrew Wilson 59:06 Okay.

Joe Rogan 59:06 Uh, as of 2017, they made the trigger lighter, and it doesn't do that anymore.

Andrew Wilson 59:11 Okay.

Joe Rogan 59:11 And there's a whole YouTube video where this guy explains it and shows that you can do it with the older models. If you drop them, if you drop them on their side, [gun drops] they don't do it. If you drop them barrel first, [gun drops] they don't do it. But if you, you drop them handle first, [gun drops] and it hits the, the back where you hold it, where the-

Andrew Wilson 59:27 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 59:27 ... you know, the, the, the, what is it called? The beavertail of the gun sits-

Andrew Wilson 59:30 Then the, the internal hammer fa- drops, and bang!

Joe Rogan 59:33 Exactly.

Andrew Wilson 59:34 Got it.

Joe Rogan 59:34 And it's one of the only guns that does that.

Andrew Wilson 59:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:36 And, uh, so much so that I believe... You should search this. I believe the Dallas Police Department stopped, uh, issuing them to their officers. See if that's true before I go further, because I don't, I don't wanna get into any w- legal weeds here. But I have one. I have a 320. I've never had a problem with it. Uh, I... Here it is: Dallas police suspends use of pistol manufacturer. Okay, yeah, and it's because of that. So, um-

Andrew Wilson 1:00:04 What are these chambered in, 940?

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 It's nine.

Andrew Wilson 1:00:07 Nine?

Joe Rogan 1:00:07 They're nines. But, uh, the um... So that's the gun this guy has.

Andrew Wilson 1:00:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 So when this CBP officer grabs his gun, he was moving off, and it appears, it's very grainy, the video, it appears there's an accidental discharge. Now, you can make an accidental discharge of this gun without touching the trigger. If there's any kind of pressure on the trigger, if it is a modified trigger, if there's anything that engages with it, even, even a slight amount, and you move the slide-

Andrew Wilson 1:00:43 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:00:43 ... at all, that gun will go off.... and there's videos of it online. You can find videos onli- online. See if you can find videos of it online where a guy shows how you can get that gun to, to negligent discharge, 'cause it will. It will, at least the pre-s- 2017 model. Um-

Andrew Wilson 1:01:02 I don't- I didn't see his hand go on the slide of the gun, though.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 Yeah. Well, he's holding it in a... It's- [exhales] the hard thing is, it's fucking blurry as shit.

Andrew Wilson 1:01:10 Yeah, you can't see. I looked at it from both angles, but the- it looked to me like he was holding it, um-

Joe Rogan 1:01:16 Like, by the handle-

Andrew Wilson 1:01:17 By the handle

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 ... with no finger on the trigger.

Andrew Wilson 1:01:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:19 But it does seem like, at least in some of the takes that I've seen, I may be wrong, but it seems like that gun might have negligent discharged. Now, do you-

Andrew Wilson 1:01:30 Usually when someone's holding a gun and there's a negligent discharge, it's because they, they pulled the trigger, right? [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 Right, right.

Andrew Wilson 1:01:36 So in this case, let's... I'm, I- I mean, I'm gonna assume it for a second. So the gun drops on the side, striker-fired. Let's say it's... I don't know what the mechanism is. We'll say the disconnector, that makes the disconnector go, the hammer drops, bam, hits the primer, gun fires. I get that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:51 Gun fires, hits the ground.

Andrew Wilson 1:01:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:52 These guys think- they hear, "Gun."

Andrew Wilson 1:01:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 These guys think this guy might have a gun in the scramble. They don't know. This is all seconds-

Andrew Wilson 1:01:59 So they open fire.

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 High pressure, they open fire on him.

Andrew Wilson 1:02:02 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:02 That's what I believe happened. You know, so when people say, "Oh, they straight-up executed this guy" -

Andrew Wilson 1:02:09 Think you better... It- there's a little more nuance there.

Joe Rogan 1:02:11 There's more nuance to it.

Andrew Wilson 1:02:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 There's chaos. There's the fog of chaos.

Andrew Wilson 1:02:15 [clears throat]

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 You're in the middle of this, like, very high-stress situation, where you've already pepper-sprayed this guy, now you're in a physical scramble. Someone says he has a gun. Gun goes off, bang, bang, bang! You're just shooting.

Andrew Wilson 1:02:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:28 I'm assuming. This is just a lot of, you know, a lot of guesswork.

Andrew Wilson 1:02:32 But that's a lot of bad stuff that has to happen-

Joe Rogan 1:02:34 Right

Andrew Wilson 1:02:35 ... in sequence.

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 1:02:36 Like, the f- the fact... E- even if this gun is recalled as a model, uh, that had these issues, right? I'm guessing that it wasn't every, every one of them that had the issue, some of them, right?

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:02:46 Probably not all. Um, and if it's because it has to have a lot of force for it to go off, or the slide has to be... You know, you have to be moving the slide or something like this.

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 Uh-huh.

Andrew Wilson 1:02:56 What I saw was him holding the pistol-

Joe Rogan 1:02:59 Right

Andrew Wilson 1:02:59 ... how you or I would hold the pistol with the finger off the trigger.

Joe Rogan 1:03:03 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 1:03:03 I did not actually see, like, what would've caused that force.

Joe Rogan 1:03:06 This is where it gets weird. So there have been documented instances... Like, the P- the, the Sig P320, there's a lot of legal stuff in- involved in this. There's, there's tons of cases. Some of them are bullshit. Like, there was one cop, where they said the cop got shot because the gun accidentally went off, and everybody's like, "Oh, man, Sig's in trouble." Turns out that cop had to recant that, and he accidentally hit the trigger and shot a cop.

Andrew Wilson 1:03:34 Yeah, uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 But he, he wanted... So this is one. So this guy-

Andrew Wilson 1:03:38 Oh

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 ... his gun just goes off. Now, he doesn't have his finger on the trigger. It just goes off. Now, there's another one where a cop is in the middle of a precinct-

Andrew Wilson 1:03:48 And he-

Joe Rogan 1:03:48 ... and he leans forward. He's got the holster on the outside. He leans forward, and the gun goes off. He does not have his hand on the trigger. He's not touching the gun at all. See if you can find the one where the cop does it. So there's a cop, where he's in the precinct. His gun is... Now, here's the question: Was there something touching the trigger? Was it the holster bad? Was there, was there debris in it? Was there something... Was there- was his, his shirt touching it? Did he, did he jam the gun in the holster and maybe, like, his shirt got stuck in and it touched the trigger a little bit?

Andrew Wilson 1:04:20 There's also the second gun theory.

Joe Rogan 1:04:21 And then he moves forward. If the guy had a second gun.

Andrew Wilson 1:04:24 There's also the second gun theory.

Joe Rogan 1:04:26 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:04:26 So I, I understand what you're saying, and maybe it met all of the conditions for that. It does seem unlikely to me, but it's possible, um, that he's just holding it, and it just happens to go off.

Joe Rogan 1:04:38 It would seem unlikely with any other gun.

Andrew Wilson 1:04:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:40 So if the guy had a Glock-

Andrew Wilson 1:04:41 But both of these cases are from the holster.

Joe Rogan 1:04:43 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:04:43 This guy's grabbing from the holster, he's grabbing from the holster. Well, the cop had already pulled it out of the holster-

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 Right

Andrew Wilson 1:04:48 ... and now he's holding it, and then it goes off.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 Right, but it's, it's so low resolution, it's hard to see what's going on with his hands.

Andrew Wilson 1:04:55 True.

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 So if there had been some funkiness with the trigger, you know, who knows where he got the gun? Who knows whether or not that gun had an aftermarket trigger? Who knows what's going on? But as he's doing this, you're in the middle of the chaos, you're ramped up with adrenaline. Who knows if that guy accidentally, while he was holding it, put pressure on the slide and caused that gun to negligent discharge? I don't know. This is the speculation, and the reason why the speculation is so... It's, it's, it's... This is something worth talking about, is because it's a Sig P320.

Andrew Wilson 1:05:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:31 And there's so many stories about that.

Andrew Wilson 1:05:33 It's not outside the realm of possibility-

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 Right

Andrew Wilson 1:05:34 ... in other words.

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:05:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:35 Which is the worst-case scenario, right? You got all this chaos, and then you've got that fucking gun, and that gun goes off.

Andrew Wilson 1:05:42 Yeah, but let me ask you this. Let's say we, we adjust for this. W- there's an investigation. Turns out that this 320 model was one of the ones that, uh, you know, was issued-

Joe Rogan 1:05:51 An older model?

Andrew Wilson 1:05:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:05:53 Or something like this, or it was issued after the fact.

Joe Rogan 1:05:55 Very well could be.

Andrew Wilson 1:05:55 And it's brand- it's newer. Let's just say it's b- it's newer, and they've gotten this design flaw out of there. Let's just, just-

Joe Rogan 1:06:00 Okay

Andrew Wilson 1:06:01 ... assume for a second. All those things being equal now, right? W- when a leftist points at that and says, "That's an execution," what, what's your opinion then? If it, if it's the case, there is no, there is no negligent discharge, there is none of that, what... Like, how would you view it then?

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 Well, it's extr- extremely unfortunate case of what happens during chaos.

Andrew Wilson 1:06:26 Yeah, I agree.

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 It, it... I don't think it's an execution. I don't think they pulled the gun from him and then just shot him, 'cause-

Andrew Wilson 1:06:31 But that's rhetoric being used, right?

Joe Rogan 1:06:33 It is. But, you know, w- which you'll- you're automatically going to have, if you have a guy get shot. Um, w- do we, can we watch a video? Let's watch a video and if- see if we can discern when the shot fires off, 'cause it- does it... Before or after they say he's got a gun?... 'cause someone says he has a gun, one of the officers removes the gun, and then a shot goes off.

Andrew Wilson 1:06:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:59 Now, there's another speculation that the guy who shot him had a negligent discharge. He didn't- like, maybe he had his hand on the trigger, and he got a little amped up, and it went off, and then he just fucking-

Andrew Wilson 1:07:10 Kept firing

Joe Rogan 1:07:11 ... fired into him.

Andrew Wilson 1:07:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:11 Kept going. That's possible, too. I- not exactly sure. It's- there's a ton of angles, ton of different cellphone angles. None of them are really crystal clear.

Andrew Wilson 1:07:22 And the thing that's interesting about this is I'm even willing to kind of grant it to the left, just on appearance a- alone for a second, just for the sake of, uh, of, like, logically taking this to its conclusion. Let's say that the cops were totally wrong on this. They g- they messed the whole thing up. They screwed it up. They... It was a negligent discharge from the officer himself. It killed this guy. It was totally unjustified. Okay, but now what? Right? Is it, is it the case that we're gonna, what, stop deporting illegal immigrants? We're gonna stop-

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 Right

Andrew Wilson 1:07:55 ... uh, you know, that ICE is gonna stop, Border Patrol is gonna stop doing its job, ICE is gonna stop doing its job because of a single incident, even if all of the officers involved were incorrect? Of course not. That's ridiculous, right? The thing about this in- incident is it's being used as a catalyst to now say they're the G- they're the Gestapo, just like they were trying to do with Rene. They're the Gestapo. They're here to k- to, uh, you know, uh, be the jackbooted thugs of the Trump administration. That's being used now as the new rallying cry and catalyst for the... And it's post hoc justification. That's what makes me so angry about it, is it's like, no, no, no, you were out here doing all of this long before anybody was getting, uh, shot by ICE, okay?

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:08:36 You were doing this long before there was any supposed abuses by ICE. It seems like they're the... What they do is they set up the reactions, right? They set up the conditions, maximize the conditions for horrible actions to happen, and then when they do, they use those as the justification for why they were ever out there in the first place. And it's like, what's going on here? That's, that's what bothers me.

Joe Rogan 1:08:56 Right. This is the quintessential description of the color revolution. I mean, the, the, they're, they're trying to create chaos. And, um, it's, uh, again, it's very well-funded and very well-organized. It's not as simple as this is an organic protest, the people are fired up because ICE is in their community. That's not really what's going on.

Andrew Wilson 1:09:17 At all.

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 But I think there's a lot of good people that are wrapped up in that, that think they're doing a good thing, and they really do think they're fighting fascism because they exist in these bubbles, and they're, they're existing in-

Andrew Wilson 1:09:27 I believe them.

Joe Rogan 1:09:29 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:09:29 I do believe them, that they think that they're fighting against fascism, and I, I've, I've debated with enough of these people on the, what historically fascism [chuckles] is in comparison to what they perceive it as, that I do think that they believe that 100%.

Joe Rogan 1:09:44 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:09:45 It's... I just think it's an unjustified belief, and I think it's, uh, it's ridiculous, but-

Joe Rogan 1:09:49 It's not accurate.

Andrew Wilson 1:09:50 It's not accurate.

Joe Rogan 1:09:51 You know, one of the things that we went over the other day, um, is we talked about the deportations, right? And that there's been somewhere in the neighborhood of, uh, 2 million deportations, but 1.6 of them were, like, self-deportations. 1.6 of them were, like, people were notified, and they said, "Well, just get the fuck out of here. I don't wanna be in jail."

Andrew Wilson 1:10:12 Yeah, good.

Joe Rogan 1:10:12 And then a half a million of them-

Andrew Wilson 1:10:14 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:10:14 ... were- and then but people are saying very few of them would- have been violent criminals. But we found out there was, like, 8%. Th- this is just 8% of what we know has been caught.

Andrew Wilson 1:10:25 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:26 That is a lot of violent criminals. If you've got a half a million people, and 8% of them are murderers and rapists, and they snuck in dur- not even snuck in, because they were allowed access to the United States over the last four years, somewhere to the tune of... Let's be, like, super charitable. Let's say it's only 10 million, 'cause I think it's a lot more, and they don't-

Andrew Wilson 1:10:46 A lot more.

Joe Rogan 1:10:46 Yeah. They don't really know the number, 'cause it's really, the numbers that they're giving are based on interactions, right? But how many people snuck through, and they didn't have an interaction with them? It's a lot, man. It's a lot of people, and they did this shit on purpose. And they did this shit because they want more congressional seats, because the census doesn't count citizens. It doesn't count legal citizens. It just counts human beings. So the more citizens you have in an area, the more congressional seats you have. And then there's places like California that make it illegal to show your ID. You're not allowed... Not only are you not suppo- which you should have to show your fucking ID when you vote-

Andrew Wilson 1:11:23 Yes

Joe Rogan 1:11:23 ... right? So we know that you're legally voting. They made it so you can't show your ID, which is the on- the on- you could steel man this to the end of time. The only reason why you would do that is 'cause you wanna cheat.

Andrew Wilson 1:11:37 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:11:37 It's the only reason.

Andrew Wilson 1:11:38 Of course. Well, it's not just that, but you make, you make a good, compelling point here. The idea, even if it was the case, let's just say almost none of them are violent criminals. Let's just give it to them, just kind of for the sake of argument here, we'll give it to them. So what? The people don't want them here. That's it. You're... These are supposed to be the biggest believers in democracy and republicanism ever. That's what they're fighting against, is the evil fascists. It's like, well, here, the people spoke, okay?

Joe Rogan 1:12:06 I'm gonna say-

Andrew Wilson 1:12:06 And the, the people said, "We don't want illegal immigrants here. We want them out of here." It doesn't matter what the conditionals are for violent criminality or not violent criminality. The, the... If you're really a big believer in the Republic, like you claim, why is it that when Trump gets elected to do exactly this job, you impede it at every turn?

Joe Rogan 1:12:26 Yeah, they don't want it to happen-

Andrew Wilson 1:12:28 They don't

Joe Rogan 1:12:28 ... because it was a part of the strategy for u- a uniparty. I mean, this is... Elon came on and was, you know, w- was very passionate about wanting to explain this to people. I mean, it's, it's one of the reasons why he did it before the election. Like, you have to understand the plan that's in place, and what they're doing is they're trying to make it so that no one but the Democrats can ever win ever again.

Andrew Wilson 1:12:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:52 And one of the best ways to do that is to ship untold numbers of people to swing states.

Andrew Wilson 1:12:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:58 And then-

Andrew Wilson 1:12:58 Which is what they're doing

Joe Rogan 1:12:59 ... That's what they did.

Andrew Wilson 1:13:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:00 They didn't just do it, they flew them out there, they gave them EBT cards, they put them on Social Security.

Andrew Wilson 1:13:05 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:13:06 We had this woman, we documented, uh, we, we talked about this woman who, uh, worked for... God, I forget which department, but her job was to turn these people from illegal immigrants into what h- she described, they described to her as clients. And so you would tell these people, "Are you-

Andrew Wilson 1:13:25 Clients?

Joe Rogan 1:13:25 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 1:13:26 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:13:26 So her, her question was to them, "Do you have a permanent disability? So do you have headaches? Does your back hurt?" I get headaches, my back hurts. I guess I'm permanently disabled. And all you have to do is, like, you don't have to have, like, uh, like, clear evidence that you have all your fucking discs are fused and you can't walk, or you have-

Andrew Wilson 1:13:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:46 You n- no! You just have to have a fucking back hurt. Your back hurts. Well, what fucking man who's a laborer, who's, uh, 35 years old, doesn't have fucking back pain?

Andrew Wilson 1:13:57 Yeah, like- [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:13:57 ... Y'all do. So they come to you, they say, "Do you have headaches and back pain?" Okay-

Andrew Wilson 1:14:00 What man who's an office worker doesn't have back pain? [chuckles] Right, everybody does.

Joe Rogan 1:14:04 Exactly. Fucking everybody does.

Andrew Wilson 1:14:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:05 You get older, you get back pain-

Andrew Wilson 1:14:06 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:14:06 ... especially if you don't take care of your back. And so these guys are, are, are all b- being roped into the system, and then they get money. They get Social Security money. They get money from taxpayers in- it- essentially forever. So if you can get those people to vote, they will most certainly vote for the people that are giving them that money, right?

Andrew Wilson 1:14:28 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:14:29 They'll, they'll most certainly vote for the people that are moving them into the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City.

Andrew Wilson 1:14:34 Just like how Muslims will vote, even though at the local level, they oppose all leftist policy-

Joe Rogan 1:14:38 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 1:14:38 ... they'll vote at a national level-

Joe Rogan 1:14:40 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 1:14:40 ... for leftists 'cause they bring in their family members. They bring in-

Joe Rogan 1:14:43 Yes

Andrew Wilson 1:14:43 ... they, they allow the, the importation of people that they want here.

Joe Rogan 1:14:47 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:14:47 So yeah, they're, they, they utilize the system for, uh, for their aims. And for Democrats, this is all good, and of course, for Republicans, it's all bad. And Elon's right. It i- he is right that Democrats... And here's what I see, the, the bird's-eye view, right? Trump, what they're gonna do, Democrats are gonna win the midterms. By hook or by crook, they're gonna win the midterms. And when they do, if they have the power in the House to do this, they're gonna impeach him day one, and we'll have- now it'll be the thrice impeached president, right? And they'll obstruct him. They'll obstruct his agenda the entire step of the way under this elongated impeachment, and they'll just run out the clock.

Joe Rogan 1:15:27 Yeah. Um-

Andrew Wilson 1:15:28 They'll just run it out.

Joe Rogan 1:15:29 It's, it's all pretty fucking crazy. It, it's really crazy. Gad Saad has a great, uh, way to describe this. He calls it suicidal empathy. And, you know, a lot of these people that are on the left, that are self-described leftists, they're very kind people, and they, they want, you know, everyone to have a chance to live in America and be good people, and they don't understand they're being used as pawns by much more cynical people that are just trying to get total control. And if you want to know what total control looks like and what kind of restrictions could be imposed on a Western society, look no further than the UK. Look what's going on in, in England right now. 12,000 people have been arrested so far last year for, uh, in the last year, rather, for social media posts, just social media posts criticizing immigration. Um, there was some new thing that they, uh, just passed that makes it so that you're supposed to tell on people who are talking in pubs, who are having conversations in pubs that you think are, are dangerous conversations.

Andrew Wilson 1:16:40 There was that woman in the UK who was SA'd and then called the guy a name via text.

Joe Rogan 1:16:46 Yes. She called him a faggot.

Andrew Wilson 1:16:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:48 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:16:49 She called... Yeah, she called him a faggot.

Joe Rogan 1:16:50 She was sex- she was sexually assaulted. She called him a faggot, and then she was arrested.

Andrew Wilson 1:16:54 Yeah, she was arrested. I was- And I remember arguing on Piers Morgan, I was debating with a leftist on this. This was the topic at the time.

Joe Rogan 1:17:01 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:17:01 And the leftist, who looked to me like he, he was a faggot, too, [chuckles] said... Uh, he was defending it tooth and nail, right? "This is a good thing because we want to get rid of stigma." The idea is to try to destigmatize the thing. See, words create stigma, and stigma creates harm values, and harm values are evil. They're bad. That's, that's the whole moral system. If it- if we reduce harm, that's moral. If we increase harm, that's immoral. So that, it, that's the zero-sum way that they look at this, right?

Joe Rogan 1:17:30 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:17:30 If you're increasing it, bad; if you're decreasing it, good. So if we're decreasing stigmatization of an activity that we think is protected, then that's reducing harm, therefore, that's the moral position.

Joe Rogan 1:17:41 Crazy.

Andrew Wilson 1:17:41 They are crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:17:42 It's crazy!

Andrew Wilson 1:17:42 That is actually a crazy way to look at the world.

Joe Rogan 1:17:45 Well, it's very dystopian.

Andrew Wilson 1:17:47 [coughs]

Joe Rogan 1:17:48 It's, it's very spooky that it, it's happening so quickly, and that the UK has become the, the leader in the world for arresting people for social media posts. No one would've ever saw that coming five, six years ago. But this is what happens when you get total control of a population. You don't- And you don't stop where you're at. You continue to move forward. You continue to try to get more and more control, and this is this new thing where they're trying to, um, uh, get people to turn people in for bar talk, which is just crazy. It's just crazy. So that's where it goes. If you're really, uh, a liberal, a real liberal, a real progressive person who really believes in free speech, you should believe in all speech, and you have to. I mean, this was the ADL's position way back in the day when they would allow the Ku Klux Klan to march. They would say, "Look-

Andrew Wilson 1:18:38 And then fight for the right to do so.

Joe Rogan 1:18:40 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:18:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:40 Yes. I mean, this is what it used to be.

Andrew Wilson 1:18:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:42 It used to be an understanding that as complicated as this thing is, you've got to allow people to say horrible things so that you can counter them with better points, and you make a better argument, and then people see your side, and then society moves forward in a generally positive direction.

Andrew Wilson 1:18:57 You know, in the online dialectic-... the way that it moves between group. And I, and I think that now, uh, online influencers, podcasters, political commentators, actually do have political- they have some political capital now, which can be spent the same way low-level politicians have political capital, which can now be spent. They actually are connected oftentimes with politicians-

Joe Rogan 1:19:17 Right

Andrew Wilson 1:19:18 ... and operate as mouthpieces, uh, on behalf of whatever that political arm is. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:22 Well, you would say that about the right, too, wouldn't you?

Andrew Wilson 1:19:24 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:19:24 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:19:24 But I don't see it as prevalent as I do, uh, with the left. The, the left, for instance, there was a, a whole thing that used to go on on Twitch, where an organization came in and bought up all the Twitch mouthpieces. Uh, that's what they did.

Joe Rogan 1:19:39 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:19:39 And, like, this, this is, this is something which has been going on for a long time. But what's interesting with the political capital angle from these leftists, they don't care what the means are. You see, the, the ends are what... The, that's all they care about, right? The, the means to get there, totally irrelevant to them. From their view, though, that makes a sick sort of sense. They believe that they're fighting against Nazis.

Joe Rogan 1:20:05 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:20:05 Literal Nazis.

Joe Rogan 1:20:06 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:20:07 So if you believe that you're in a war with literal Nazis, what wouldn't you do to complete that war? What, what means wouldn't you go to? What means of sabotage would you not do?

Joe Rogan 1:20:17 Of course.

Andrew Wilson 1:20:17 What cars would you not blow up?

Joe Rogan 1:20:19 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:20:19 What cops would you not eliminate-

Joe Rogan 1:20:21 Right

Andrew Wilson 1:20:21 ... in order to stop the rise of the new Hitler?

Joe Rogan 1:20:23 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:20:24 And it's like, and they're, they're expending their political capital on that message, and that message has a lot of influence on people.

Joe Rogan 1:20:31 Yeah. It also... There, there's so many people that are getting attention by feeding into the rhetoric. There's so many people that are making viral clips of them threatening, you know, like, menacing, like, these weird, dorky liberal guys. Like, these guys that you would think of pacifists, are literally calling for violence. I got one of them, 'cause it's, like, the most unlikely guy. Like, you see this guy doing this, you're like, "Hey, buddy," like, "who... What? What are you saying?" [laughing] "Who, who, who's gonna-

Andrew Wilson 1:21:03 Who's following you into battle? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:21:05 Yeah. Who's... I'm gonna, I'm gonna send you the- 'cause it's, it's... It- the way he says it, too, is so, like, like he's watched too many fucking TV shows. Um, this guy. Let's... [laptop closes] 'Cause it's, it's the terminology that he uses that is, uh, it's actually kind of funny, if it wasn't so scary. Put this on real quick.

Andrew Wilson 1:21:23 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:21:23 'Cause it's so [laughing] when you see this guy's doughy face and his understanding of real violence. Listen to this.

Speaker 1:21:32 When combat starts, we all roll initiative. I'm gonna say that again, and anyone... Everyone knows what I'm talking about when I say this: when combat starts, we all roll initiative.

Joe Rogan 1:21:46 [laughing] I, I mean, I hate to laugh-

Andrew Wilson 1:21:53 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:21:53 ... 'cause it's kind of fucking serious, because they're, they're, they're inciting violence, and they're, they're calling for insurrection. They're calling for people to-

Andrew Wilson 1:22:00 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:22:01 ... take to the streets and start violence. But that guy, like, what? Would it, like, uh-

Andrew Wilson 1:22:05 You're not gonna roll initiative?

Joe Rogan 1:22:07 Uh, what does that even mean?

Andrew Wilson 1:22:08 Well, I mean, uh, I think, I think it just means we all go.

Joe Rogan 1:22:11 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:22:12 When violence start, we, we all go.

Speaker 1:22:13 It's a Dungeons & Dragons reference.

Andrew Wilson 1:22:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:15 Is it?

Speaker 1:22:15 Rolling. You know, you roll-

Andrew Wilson 1:22:16 Oh, rolling? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:22:17 [laughing] Oh, no, no, no!

Speaker 1:22:20 Oh, wait a minute.

Joe Rogan 1:22:21 No!

Speaker 1:22:22 The tweet says Dungeons & Dragons in it. I don't even know.

Joe Rogan 1:22:24 Oh, God.

Speaker 1:22:25 It says, "Dungeons & Dragons nerds means business," I think.

Joe Rogan 1:22:27 Oh.

Andrew Wilson 1:22:28 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:22:29 Z- so-

Andrew Wilson 1:22:29 So he's doing, so-

Joe Rogan 1:22:30 Do a search on that. Does roll initiative, is that a part of Dungeons & Dragons? Roll the... 'Cause I only know of Dun- Dungeons & Dragons from Stranger Things.

Andrew Wilson 1:22:36 So does his A... Does his AR do 2d6 damage? [laughing] It's like... [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:22:41 [laughing] But it's just the, the menacing way that he stares-

Speaker 1:22:45 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:22:45 ... into the camera.

Speaker 1:22:45 "Determines your turn in combat."

Joe Rogan 1:22:46 Okay, here it is: "Rolling for initiative determines the turn order in combat. Each player and monster rolls a 20-sided die and adds their dexterity modifier." [laughing]

Andrew Wilson 1:22:56 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:22:56 Oh, God! But, I mean, this is what I'm saying, it's like, it, it's... P- a lot of it is cosplay, and it's-

Andrew Wilson 1:23:02 That does sound like he is saying, though, "We all go there," right?

Joe Rogan 1:23:05 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 1:23:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:06 That's-

Andrew Wilson 1:23:06 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:23:06 It sounds like it's says... That's what he's saying.

Andrew Wilson 1:23:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:07 And it, it's also... It gives meaning to people whose lives do not have a lot of meaning, right? Like, all of a sudden, you're a part of a greater cause. You're, you're a part of a very important movement.

Andrew Wilson 1:23:18 Yeah, you're stopping Nazis.

Joe Rogan 1:23:19 Yeah, you're stopping Nazis, and i- it's, you know, relatively safe from the comfort of your own home, well, staring at your phone on, on TikTok.

Andrew Wilson 1:23:26 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:23:27 You know, and you get all excited about it, and you cheer. And the, these are the same people that cheered when Charlie Kirk got shot, um, for just talking. Like, that was fine, but this one is not good. You know, it's, it's, it's all, like, v- it's very fucked up, man, and-

Andrew Wilson 1:23:41 Well, and they're gonna kill... They'll kill more commentators if they can get away with it, um, happily. I mean, w- part of that whole signal chat that's dangerous, that people aren't talking about, that's probably the more- most dangerous aspect of it... It, it... And I can't prove this, but it's been my experience, that left-wing communities and left-wing groups, especially online communities and online groups, really pander to the mentally ill in a big way, really pander to them. And it's, uh, I think that it's a form of weaponization. They want to attract the extremely mentally ill into these communities, and it, it helps with actually what is radicalization, and they play on the fact that they're mentally ill in order to do this.

Joe Rogan 1:24:23 Well, this is Antifa, right?

Andrew Wilson 1:24:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:24:24 Like, this is, this is why they find-

Andrew Wilson 1:24:25 It's not just Antifa-

Joe Rogan 1:24:27 Antifa

Andrew Wilson 1:24:27 ... it goes beyond that.

Joe Rogan 1:24:28 Sure.

Andrew Wilson 1:24:28 Like, if you go to some of these TikTokers communities, you go to some of the online political pundits communities who are far left, okay? These people who are in there are fruit loops, man.

Joe Rogan 1:24:38 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:24:39 They are lunatics, and they're pandered to. They're pandered to. "Oh, okay, you can't say this to them, that's ableist."

Joe Rogan 1:24:45 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:24:45 "You can't tell them this is... You're a weirdo, because that's mean. You can't..." And not only are they pandered to, but I think that that's the source of the weapon. If it's the case that these people don't care about death, they don't care, like, "Oh, the outcome's going to be death." That guy who shot at the, uh, the ICE agents not too long ago, remember, he was on top of the roof. He was shooting across with, I think, a Mauser rifle, and they, they dusted him, they killed him, or he shot himself. I don't remember which.

Joe Rogan 1:25:10 When, when was this?

Andrew Wilson 1:25:11 This was, uh, a few months back.

Joe Rogan 1:25:13 ... I don't know about this one, I don't think.

Andrew Wilson 1:25:15 No, there was a guy, he was-

Joe Rogan 1:25:16 Is this how callous I've become?

Andrew Wilson 1:25:17 Yeah, he was taking shots at, uh, I believe it was ICE agents in front of the ICE facility.

Joe Rogan 1:25:23 Oh, that's right. That's right.

Andrew Wilson 1:25:23 Yeah, he was using-

Joe Rogan 1:25:24 I remember that. I remember that

Andrew Wilson 1:25:24 ... I believe he was using, like, a Mauser rifle or something.

Joe Rogan 1:25:27 Yeah. Okay, now I remember.

Andrew Wilson 1:25:27 And, but-

Joe Rogan 1:25:28 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 1:25:28 ... early on with the Charlie Kirk thing, they were actually making these connections 'cause he had used a, a Mauser as well, right?

Joe Rogan 1:25:34 Mm.

Andrew Wilson 1:25:34 To shoot Charlie Kirk. That was the... So people were making those early connections: "Wait, is this-

Joe Rogan 1:25:39 Mm

Andrew Wilson 1:25:39 ... is this a sequence of events? Does the Mauser mean something here? Does that particular rifle have special meaning?" You know how people are online.

Joe Rogan 1:25:45 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:25:46 But anyway, uh, the interesting thing is, like, they don't care if they die. They're, they're dying martyrs. They don't care.

Joe Rogan 1:25:52 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:25:53 And it's really easy to weaponize mentally ill people that way because they don't care. These are the same people who have the high suicide rates [chuckles] for a reason, because they're already mentally ill, like the Troons and others-

Joe Rogan 1:26:03 'Cause-

Andrew Wilson 1:26:03 Which many of them you find are connected to trans people almost every time.

Joe Rogan 1:26:07 Also, SSRIs.

Andrew Wilson 1:26:09 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:26:09 And this is the other problem, is that, uh, how many of these people are on these psychiatric medications that... Violent ideation is a part of the side effects of these suicidal, or, uh, excuse me, these, uh, psychiatric drugs. There's a, a l- a lot of people that have, uh, psychotic thoughts when they get on some of these different SSRIs and, and different psychiatric medications. So you've got people that are already fucked up mentally, and then you've got them on these medications that cause them to do all kinds of crazy things.

Andrew Wilson 1:26:42 And aren't women, aren't women taking much more in the way of SSRI, I, pills than men are?

Joe Rogan 1:26:48 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:26:48 And who do we see as the- on the bullhorns and loudspeakers at most of these events? It's women.

Joe Rogan 1:26:53 Well, particularly liberal women.

Andrew Wilson 1:26:54 Particularly liberal women-

Joe Rogan 1:26:55 Like, the statistics-

Andrew Wilson 1:26:55 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:26:55 ... I'm sure you've se- seen the statistics, but I, I actually-

Andrew Wilson 1:26:58 Very lopsided

Joe Rogan 1:26:59 ... saved them 'cause they're kind of nutty. Uh, the- what's, what's interesting is the num- like, the least mentally ill, in terms of numbers, is conservative men. Conservative men, I think it's like-

Andrew Wilson 1:27:13 'Cause they're normal? [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:27:15 Yeah, I think... Uh, okay. Young liberal women, 56% report a mental health diagnosis. Young moderate women, uh, 18 to 29, 28%. Young conservative women, 27%, only slightly less. Um, so for men, it is, uh, 34% of all liberal men. 34%, so a third of all liberal men are mentally ill, 22% of moderate men, and 16% of conservative men.

Andrew Wilson 1:27:47 Yeah, but do you know what the lunatics argue when you bring that up?

Joe Rogan 1:27:50 What?

Andrew Wilson 1:27:50 The l- these lunatics, they'll argue, "No, no, no, the conservative men are just as mentally ill. It's just undiagnosed because there's a stigma in conservative communities about going to get your mental illness diagnosed." I always point out, and I think this is a, an interesting way to point this out, like, maybe they're not going to get diagnosed because they don't have a problem. [chuckles] Did you ever think of that?

Joe Rogan 1:28:13 It's possible. It's possible it's undiagnosed, 'cause I think that is accurate, though, that there is a stigma about mental health, and therapy, and things along those lines in conservative c- I mean-

Andrew Wilson 1:28:23 I agree

Joe Rogan 1:28:23 ... if you wanna, like-

Andrew Wilson 1:28:23 I agree, but I also think that what happens is, um, when you're t- when you're talking especially about the voodoo that is psychology, and it is, it is voodoo-

Joe Rogan 1:28:32 It is voodoo.

Andrew Wilson 1:28:32 I have very little respect for psychology.

Joe Rogan 1:28:35 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:28:35 I don't even consider it science. I consider that there's scientific methods used for data gathering, but I don't consider psychology a science at all.

Joe Rogan 1:28:43 And that's psychology. Psychiatry gets even weirder-

Andrew Wilson 1:28:46 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:28:46 ... because then you start a- adding medication.

Andrew Wilson 1:28:48 Yeah, and it's-

Joe Rogan 1:28:48 You're not just talking about therapy.

Andrew Wilson 1:28:49 It's all voodoo to- as far as I'm concerned. I think that men often, especially conservative men, get as much out of, uh, you know, their close relationships with friends and family as they would going to a psychologist. In other words, just... I think just having somebody to talk to, who's a close friend, who's intricately familiar with your situation, probably gives you more value than going to a complete stranger who has learned manipulation techniques. That's what they learn, essentially, is manipulation techniques. Uh, I think there's more value there, and so I think that the stigma which exists there d- doesn't exist because it's like you're not manly, which is how they try to frame it. I think the stigma exists there because so many, uh, conservative men go, "Well, I tried that shit, and it was nonsense."

Joe Rogan 1:29:32 There's some of that, yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:29:32 "I tried it, and it sucked. I tried it, and it was worth- I, I went to marriage counseling, did nothing. Um, sided with the wife, right? I went, uh, for this issue, did nothing. Uh, but when I went out and had some beers with my friends, that actually helped relieve-

Joe Rogan 1:29:46 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 1:29:46 ... some of these, some of these issues."

Joe Rogan 1:29:48 I think the problem with that is there's a lot of guys who don't have good friends, you know? And you don't have someone that you can count on, unfortunately. You know, there's just, there's a lot of men out there that are lost.

Andrew Wilson 1:30:00 I agree-

Joe Rogan 1:30:00 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 1:30:00 ... but I think that the conservative men seem to, like they have closer longevity with friends than progressive men do.

Joe Rogan 1:30:06 Yes, and they don't abandon them when they change their opinions on things.

Andrew Wilson 1:30:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:30:09 Um, so here's the self-reported data. Um, from a 2022 survey analysis found that 51% of conservatives report, report excellent mental health-

Andrew Wilson 1:30:19 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:30:19 ... compared to 20% of liberals. That's a big difference.

Andrew Wilson 1:30:23 Huge.

Joe Rogan 1:30:24 It's a giant difference.

Andrew Wilson 1:30:25 I don't think stigma could account for that.

Joe Rogan 1:30:27 No, it can't. It's, it's like, it's not just stigma. It's like... [sighs] It's also like, what, like what is, what does it mean to be conservative? Does it mean, you know, taking account for your own actions, discipline, hard work ethic? All those things are a- actually good for your mental health, like, like pulling yourself up, and getting back to work, and doing things.

Andrew Wilson 1:30:47 I think, I think now, and I think maybe it always should've been framed this way, I think now for, to, for the label of conservative to apply, we really kind of start with religious foundationalism.

Joe Rogan 1:30:58 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 1:30:59 That's what d- is becoming, fast becoming the delineation.

Joe Rogan 1:31:03 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:31:03 Is-

Joe Rogan 1:31:04 Having a framework.

Andrew Wilson 1:31:04 Having the framework, right?

Joe Rogan 1:31:06 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:31:06 And the religious framework is almost instantly going to put you-... in that moving towards that conservative camp almost every single time. And, uh, and I think, I think that that's a necessary component now. If we're trying to make these political delineations, it becomes tough. What's a Republican or a neocon versus a conservative versus a this versus that? It comes down to foundationalism of framework-

Joe Rogan 1:31:30 Right

Andrew Wilson 1:31:30 ... like you were just saying, and the framework of Christianity and Christian ethics, huge delineation point between the right and the left, who rejects that for harm principles, utilitarianism, and various other, uh, sorts of frameworks.

Joe Rogan 1:31:44 Yeah, and they'll, they'll also point to, you know, [coughs] what Christianity has done throughout history and the amount of harm that it's caused. [sighs] But it's kind of like every power structure throughout history you could point to-

Andrew Wilson 1:31:57 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:31:57 -in that way.

Andrew Wilson 1:31:58 Well, it was what was there.

Joe Rogan 1:31:59 Yeah, it's what was there.

Andrew Wilson 1:32:00 The thing is, is like, the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church gets a lot of shit for this. Well, look at a- all the horrible things that the Catholic Church did, and it's like, well, the Catholic Church was the whole known world once.

Joe Rogan 1:32:11 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:32:11 You know, all of Europe was the Catholic Church.

Joe Rogan 1:32:14 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:32:14 Not s- you know, [chuckles] like, all of it was.

Joe Rogan 1:32:16 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:32:16 You can't have organizations which span whole nations and countries, um, uh, ethnicities, cultures, integrate themselves into it, and, and not have corruption. That... I don't care what system it is, pointing to it and saying it's because they were Catholic, that's where it becomes absurd.

Joe Rogan 1:32:34 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:32:35 They were corrupt. There was corruption, but that's not-

Joe Rogan 1:32:38 Because they're human.

Andrew Wilson 1:32:38 Because they're human, not-

Joe Rogan 1:32:39 Right

Andrew Wilson 1:32:39 ... because they're Catholic.

Joe Rogan 1:32:40 Right. Right. Um, one of the things that I always try to point out to people that go, "Why do you go to church?" Like, 'cause when I was younger, I was very cynical about religion, and then I've gotten older, I was... One of the things that I always say is, "If there was a pill that could make you as nice as the people that I go to church with-

Andrew Wilson 1:32:56 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:32:57 ... everybody would be on it."

Andrew Wilson 1:32:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:59 They are the nicest fucking people you will ever encounter. When we leave the church parking lot-

Andrew Wilson 1:33:03 Are they nice, or are they kind?

Joe Rogan 1:33:03 They're kind.

Andrew Wilson 1:33:04 Yeah, they're kind.

Joe Rogan 1:33:05 They're kind. Kind and nice. They're, they're all the above. They're, like, very friendly, happy people, but when you leave the church parking lot or even when you're entering, they're the, the, the- they... Everybody lets everybody in. It's like no one rushes ahead. It's like, "You go ahead, and then you go ahead." It's, like, the most self-organized-

Andrew Wilson 1:33:24 Sure

Joe Rogan 1:33:24 ... m- most charitable way of exiting a parking lot I've ever experienced in my life. The opposite of a concert. You go to a great concert, everybody's, like, fucking on everybody's bumper, trying to weasel in, people are honking, "Fuck you!" In church, it's like one person goes, then another person goes, "No, you go. Wave!" And then everybody's fine, and everybody's happy. It's like, if that was... If you could take a pill that could do that to you, if therapy could do that to you, we should all be on therapy. We should all take that pill.

Andrew Wilson 1:33:50 Philosophy can do that for you 'cause the phenomenon that you're talking about is the me philosophy, and so what it... You're, you're going to church, it's not all about you.

Joe Rogan 1:33:58 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:33:59 And that's why you have those types of interactions with people.

Joe Rogan 1:34:02 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:34:02 "Wait, I'm going..." You go to a concert, that's for you.

Joe Rogan 1:34:05 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 1:34:06 That's for me, not for these strangers.

Joe Rogan 1:34:08 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:34:08 I'm going there 'cause I wanna be entertained.

Joe Rogan 1:34:10 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:34:10 That's for me. You go to church, it's not for you.

Joe Rogan 1:34:13 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:34:14 And the thing is, is, um, it's the, it's th- the kind of materialos- materialism view, the materialistic view of pure materialism, reduces always to me.

Joe Rogan 1:34:26 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 1:34:26 Me, me, me, 'cause what else can there be?

Joe Rogan 1:34:28 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:34:28 There's just me and mat- the material I engage with. There's nothing outside of that, so why engage as though there's something outside of that? That doesn't just lead to nihilism, but it's the beginning stages of understanding the distinction between religious foundationalism and, uh, basically everything else. The reduction doesn't come down to me, and that's why those interactions seem so much better, 'cause they are, because people are thinking about you.

Joe Rogan 1:34:53 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:34:53 [chuckles] And it's like-

Joe Rogan 1:34:54 Right

Andrew Wilson 1:34:54 ... what a concept! Imagine a world where people think about somebody besides themselves.

Joe Rogan 1:34:59 And they think about... They can think about everybody as a part of a community, and a collective community that you care about, that has value to you.

Andrew Wilson 1:35:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35:06 And there, you know, there's-

Andrew Wilson 1:35:08 And then you go, "Why is the mental health rate so much better in these communities?"

Joe Rogan 1:35:12 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:35:12 It's like, well, isn't it interesting how much they think about other people than just themselves, and duties-

Joe Rogan 1:35:18 Yes

Andrew Wilson 1:35:18 ... to those people-

Joe Rogan 1:35:19 Yes

Andrew Wilson 1:35:19 ... instead of just me, me, me, me, me?

Joe Rogan 1:35:21 They're the kindest people you, you're ever gonna come across.

Andrew Wilson 1:35:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35:24 And, uh, I think there's a lot of value in that, and I think the people that are cynical about that because they don't wanna believe in fairy tales, or they don't wanna be stupid, they don't wanna get duped by... Like, look, there's a, a foundation to that. If you just look... Forget about some of the stuff that's in the Bible that, you know... Y- it gets weird when you get old. Like, you go back into the old, old, old stuff, because, like, for sure, human beings had some sort of an influence on what was written down and what wasn't written down, but you get just to the teachings of Christ, I can't find any faults in it. Like, it's all a- a- about being kind. It's all about this, this idea that we're all in this together, and that you're supposed to lift each other up and look after each other. There's no faults in it. It's, it's not like you have to kill the non-believers. It's not like you get to rape and pillage for the non-believers, and the infidels must die. There's none of that.

Andrew Wilson 1:36:22 That's why the... That's why Christians believe in objective truth, that there must be objective truth, because otherwise, why is most of the world following this as though it's objective truth? We seem to be leaning towards this as though this must be the thing which is objectively real and objectively true, and a thing which we can point to that is. Because when people are introduced to it, like you just said, it's really hard and difficult to find fault in it, and it's not just that. You know, it's interesting, if we reverse it, if we say, "What could I do that actually would be the best for me, me, me, me, me?" It would still be that.

Joe Rogan 1:36:56 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:36:57 Which is the funniest part of the whole thing.

Joe Rogan 1:36:59 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:36:59 It's like, both ways it works for you, even if it's not all about you, or it works for you, even if it is all about you. It's still gonna be the better message out of the two.

Joe Rogan 1:37:08 It's, it's definitely a better framework for living your life, and, um-... there's a lot of people that just reject that, that are- that think of themselves as intelligent. You know, they, they think of themselves as intelligent, and well-read, and, uh, educated, and they just think it's-

Andrew Wilson 1:37:25 I'm too smart for that.

Joe Rogan 1:37:25 Yeah, I'm too smart for that.

Andrew Wilson 1:37:26 I'm too smart for all that.

Joe Rogan 1:37:27 I'm, I'm an atheist.

Andrew Wilson 1:37:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:28 Any atheist needs to take eight grams of mushrooms. Just take-

Andrew Wilson 1:37:33 Do, do a little DMT? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:37:34 Do a little DMT, and you're like, "Oh, I don't know anything." You, you think you know things. You don't know a fucking thing. You just know what you've experienced. And I think that these... uh, the world is better off if people have a great moral and ethical framework. I think morals, and ethics, and being kind is one of the most important values that human beings can ever possess if you wanna live in a productive and healthy community.

Andrew Wilson 1:38:03 Completely agree, and, uh, I think that kindness... I make a delineation between kindness and niceness.

Joe Rogan 1:38:09 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 1:38:10 'Cause I think it's often kind not to be nice.

Joe Rogan 1:38:12 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:38:12 But I do think that you can be nice, and it, it may not be kind.

Joe Rogan 1:38:17 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:38:17 And so-

Joe Rogan 1:38:17 That's true

Andrew Wilson 1:38:18 ... so I make a delineation between those things. I don't think that kindness, though, has much variance.

Joe Rogan 1:38:22 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:38:22 Kindness is looking after the interest of somebody who's not me.

Joe Rogan 1:38:26 And it makes everybody f- it's sel- it's actually selfish [chuckles] 'cause it makes you feel good, too.

Andrew Wilson 1:38:30 Yeah, there's, I mean, there is something-

Joe Rogan 1:38:32 I mean, you can look at it that way.

Andrew Wilson 1:38:33 Sure. From, from the, from the position of trying to convince the unbeliever, right?

Joe Rogan 1:38:38 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 1:38:38 Appealing to their self-interest may not be the worst idea.

Joe Rogan 1:38:40 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:38:41 You know, appealing to, like, well, has the lack of community and the... Like, let's just assume for a second, let's just assume it's all bullshit and it's all nonsense. Every bit of it is just totally made up.

Joe Rogan 1:38:52 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:38:52 We just, like, we just made it up, right? But we all acted as though it was true. If it's the case that your whole framework is that we just want a society that really works well and d- does the best it can possibly do for everyone, then shouldn't you, by your own framework, just pretend it's true?

Joe Rogan 1:39:09 Right. Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:39:10 Shouldn't you just act as though it's true anyway, because-

Joe Rogan 1:39:12 Jordan Peterson had a very good point about that-

Andrew Wilson 1:39:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:39:15 ... uh, about d- believing in God, that if you believe... If you act as if God is real, you will have a better life. Like, it, it, it, it works. It really does work.

Andrew Wilson 1:39:27 Almost like a universal truth?

Joe Rogan 1:39:28 Yeah. It's, it's very fascinating. It's fascinating that, um, people that are self-professed atheists and people that think of themselves as too intelligent for religion won't acknowledge that. They don't wanna believe that. And so many of them that I know that are self-professed atheists are some of the most miserable people. They're, they're very depressed. A lot of them are on psychiatric medications, a lot of them are in therapy, a lot of them are really fucked up.

Andrew Wilson 1:39:51 They're almost cursed. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:39:56 [laughing] Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:39:57 Almost seems like that, doesn't it?

Joe Rogan 1:39:59 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:39:59 And the thing... Well, the thing that's interesting is, like, um, I've talked with a lot of atheists, debated with a lot of atheists, especially on the effects of Christianity in society against the effects of atheism, and I know what pure secular states have led to. That's what communism was. That was a purely secular state-

Joe Rogan 1:40:17 Yes, yeah

Andrew Wilson 1:40:17 ... where you really, where you really wall off the church from the state. But here, we pretend that it's secular, and they get all the benefits of it being, quote, "secular," but it's not secular at all.

Joe Rogan 1:40:28 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:40:28 Politicians are constantly voted in based on the fact that they have an X amount of value structure, and that's what they're going to implement legislatively on you. The whole secular thing, totally made up. It's... And, and them pretending that that's even, even real or has ever existed as a real framework in the United States, just nonsense.

Joe Rogan 1:40:48 Not only that, but I think there is a natural default in the human mind to be attracted to a structure. And, uh, if that structure is a Christian structure, you're attracted to all the Christian values that we've just discussed being so positive and beneficial to you. But if you're not, and you go to a leftist, progressive structure, leftist in particular, um, like a Marxist structure, uh, what, you know, what, what you're seeing is a complete lack of forgiveness.

Andrew Wilson 1:41:17 [coughs]

Joe Rogan 1:41:17 They don't have that built into the system. You know, one of the, one of the beautiful things about Christianity is forgiveness and the recognition that we're all sinners, and we all fuck up, and we're all human, and we're all flawed, and that you could, you could move on and be better-

Andrew Wilson 1:41:32 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:41:32 ... and you can atone for these sins, and you could recognize that, you know, yes, you've made a mistake, but here's the best way to move forward and be a better person. Society a- at a whole recognizes that you are me, and I am you, and we're all kind of the same thing. We all fuck up, and we're all, we're, we're all just human beings. But there's a pathway. There's a pathway to forgiveness. There's zero pathway-

Andrew Wilson 1:41:55 Oh, no, nothing

Joe Rogan 1:41:55 ... in this, in, in leftism. That's, that's the most, uh, horrible thing, when you watch these pile-ons online over, like, the most innocuous-

Andrew Wilson 1:42:03 And so therefore-

Joe Rogan 1:42:04 ... discretions

Andrew Wilson 1:42:04 ... what's funny with leftists is their pathway is just everything's permitted.

Joe Rogan 1:42:09 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 1:42:10 And the pathway from the Christian is, no, not everything is permitted, but almost everything can be forgiven.

Joe Rogan 1:42:15 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:42:16 And that I would see as the big distinction. It remind... There, you know, there's a, a, a story, uh, that I heard, uh, because I'm Eastern Orthodox. That's, um, that's what I follow. And, uh, I heard a, a... It was a, a great story my priest told me. And so basically how this went is there was monks, uh, they lived in a commune, and one monk, uh, liked to get drunk. That was his big vice, right? And he drank a lot of beer, and he did this clear up until the day that he died. And when he died, uh, everyone was crying. And a monk said, "Well, you know, why, why is everyone crying? You know, he held that vice clear up till the day he died." And the head of the, of the [chuckles] the k- the abbot who was there, he said, "Yeah, but the last few years, he cut it in half." [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:43:03 [laughing] He was on the path.

Andrew Wilson 1:43:05 Yeah. He was... Well, he's just saying, "I'm gonna recognize all the progress that this man who had this horrible vice, uh, did," right? There was still prog- he was still trying to move towards the virtue.

Joe Rogan 1:43:17 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:43:18 Now, maybe he never got to it, but we're- I'm still gonna recognize that he was trying to.... and maybe he, he was not able to surmount it, he was not able to get past his demons, maybe he wasn't able to overtake them all, but he was at least attempting to.

Joe Rogan 1:43:32 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:43:32 And-

Joe Rogan 1:43:32 That's the thing, yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:43:33 That's the, that's the thing, and-

Joe Rogan 1:43:35 Well, it's, it's this idea of, like, someone being a perfect person. It's just, it's nonsense, doesn't exist. And so if you don't have a pathway to forgiveness, and if you don't, if you don't have that b- built into your society, you're always gonna have people pointing out the people that are the bad people, and it's gonna keep moving in that direction. And it's one of the things you see in the left, in particular, is they eat their own. And it, it's... drives me crazy when I see that also from the right. I'm like, "You- don't you see that the people that you criticize are doing this, and now you're doing this? You guys are turning on each other over the most innocuous things and, and forming tribes, where you're attacking each other, even though you have mostly shared values, instead of being charitable and recognizing that, you know, these are just human beings, and they make mistakes?"

Andrew Wilson 1:44:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:44:22 But the left eats itself more than any fucking group that I've ever encountered, uh, over almost nothing, and they love to pile on 'cause they're absolutely terrified that it's gonna come for them. They're fucking terrified, and so they will go out of their way to shame, and attack, and to take some of the energy away from them.

Andrew Wilson 1:44:42 But do you think there's a unity in that? Like, if we were to... if, if we were to look at this, again, like, from a bird's-eye view, I agree with you. The left eats itself way more than the right does-

Joe Rogan 1:44:52 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 1:44:52 ... though the right eats itself, too, right? And we've been seeing a lot of that post Charlie Kirk's death.

Joe Rogan 1:44:56 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:44:56 I- though I think that that was mostly power vacuum based-

Joe Rogan 1:44:59 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 1:45:00 ... and who gets to fill the power vacuum.

Joe Rogan 1:45:01 Exactly. That's what I think, too.

Andrew Wilson 1:45:02 I still think that it's, it, it turned into a dog-eat-dog for the power vacuum fight-

Joe Rogan 1:45:07 Yep

Andrew Wilson 1:45:07 ... and it was a criticism of values, foundationalism, and all of that. But from the left view, if you eat- if you're eating your own, right, and you eat the message apart to the point where you get down to the foundation, and now everybody's in lock and step, is that better for political power or worse? Like, if you constantly are just eating the wrong... You know, "Nope, that message isn't pure enough," and they gobble 'em up-

Joe Rogan 1:45:30 Right, right

Andrew Wilson 1:45:31 ... until you get the monster, right, who has the right message, they're all on board. Is, is that the better way to achieve this kind of, like, political paradigm that they want? That's my question.

Joe Rogan 1:45:41 It's very naive. It's a, it's a naive perspective that eventually you're gonna boil it down to a purity, and you're not going to. It's not gonna happen. You're, you're never gonna get far left enough, and-

Andrew Wilson 1:45:51 There'll always be something else to eat 'em over on.

Joe Rogan 1:45:53 Yeah. Well, also, you're advocating for communism, and advocating for communism is so wild. And people- there's no examples of it ever being done right. It's... There's zero. Imagine advocating for something that has zero success. Zero. None. Like, you can- it doesn't exist. It does- it's never happened. There's never been w... Why? Well, I'll tell you why. Because if everybody has to share all the money, then who's gonna enforce that? Who's gonna do... Who, who's gonna tell people that you have to give up your house?

Andrew Wilson 1:46:26 A state. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:46:27 Who's gonna tell people to give up your... The state.

Andrew Wilson 1:46:28 The state. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:46:29 And the state has guns.

Andrew Wilson 1:46:29 Yeah. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:46:30 Yeah, so you're advocating for violence.

Andrew Wilson 1:46:31 Yeah, well, you-

Joe Rogan 1:46:32 Well, you don't think you're advocating for violence, but you are.

Andrew Wilson 1:46:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:34 You're advocating for hard men with, with guns-

Andrew Wilson 1:46:37 Guns, to enforce your will

Joe Rogan 1:46:38 ... and those people are gonna wind up living in mansions and eating filet mignon, and everybody else is gonna be eating oats and gruel, and, uh, that's-

Andrew Wilson 1:46:46 Which is exactly what's always happened-

Joe Rogan 1:46:48 Always

Andrew Wilson 1:46:48 ... when it's tried.

Joe Rogan 1:46:49 Always.

Andrew Wilson 1:46:49 And the thing, the thing that's interesting, too, is there's other, there's other value set issues that are really simple to point to. Like, okay, nothing's worth anything. Like, how do I get my guitar?

Joe Rogan 1:46:59 Right. It's nonsense.

Andrew Wilson 1:47:00 Like, just, y- you know, all the communist nations were always setting their market prices based on what capitalists, which markets-

Joe Rogan 1:47:06 Right

Andrew Wilson 1:47:06 ... would set for prices. And it's like, how do I value a guitar if it's, i- if, if it's supposed to just be mine in the commune, and then yours also, and his also? How do we set a value assessment here? What makes the Epiphone better than the Fe-

Joe Rogan 1:47:23 Um, another pro- sorry, folks, we had a crash, software crash. Another problem is this idea of the equality of outcome, that everybody should get an equal amount. That is crazy talk because we all know that equality of effort does not exist. There's a reason why there's outliers, and the reason why they're so compelling and so inspirational is, like, this fucking guy got up at 5:00 o'clock in the morning, and ran every morning before work, and hustled, and, and ate the right food, and, and fucking did the right things, and was thinking, and pushing, and was open-minded, and, and he became radically successful.

Andrew Wilson 1:47:58 But from each according to their ability, Joe. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:48:01 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:48:01 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:48:01 But then, no, it, it's, it's not even maximizing everyone's ability because you're, you're basically giving a safety net for fucking lazy people, and that's not good for them either.

Andrew Wilson 1:48:09 No.

Joe Rogan 1:48:10 No. Being inspired by others' success is a good thing. It's a good thing.

Andrew Wilson 1:48:14 Totally.

Joe Rogan 1:48:14 And the only way that happens is if you let someone be exceptional, and the only way you let someone be exceptional, you have to incentivize them. Well, what's the incentive? The incentive is they get more value out of their hard work. They get more money. They get a nicer house. They get... Like, what are you gonna do? You're gonna decide that people have to, like, mate, like, that-

Andrew Wilson 1:48:33 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:48:33 ... the women don't find this guy attractive, but that's not fair, so they have to be with this guy, and they have to find him attractive? Or that, uh, the, you know, a woman has to find this man attractive-

Andrew Wilson 1:48:42 Sure

Joe Rogan 1:48:42 ... even though he's, he's, he's a, a dumpy, fucking lazy loser?

Andrew Wilson 1:48:45 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:48:46 Like, this is the way of the world.

Andrew Wilson 1:48:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:47 And competition is a good thing for human beings. It inspires us. It's good. It, it, it lets you know that there's a higher bar that can be achieved, and-

Andrew Wilson 1:48:55 And you often used to know who the lazy people were based on the living conditions they had.

Joe Rogan 1:48:59 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 1:49:00 Isn't that interesting?

Joe Rogan 1:49:00 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 1:49:01 Just like you would often know if there was an ugly kid, that their parents probably were pretty ugly, right?

Joe Rogan 1:49:06 [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 1:49:06 Uh, but it's true, right?

Joe Rogan 1:49:08 Yes, it is true.

Andrew Wilson 1:49:09 It is true. The, the idea here is, like, um, people tend to bat in dating in their league, at least men do, right?

Joe Rogan 1:49:15 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:49:15 Or try to, [chuckles] right?

Joe Rogan 1:49:17 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:49:17 Uh, women above their league. But the thing is, is the reason you commonly see good-looking people with good-looking people and ugly people with ugly people, is because that's about what you can get.... yeah, but it's the same thing when it comes to ability and skill in whatever it is that you're doing, right?

Joe Rogan 1:49:33 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 1:49:34 Hey, thing is, is like, well, oftentimes if you ask a person- my dad used to say this all the time, he was right. If you ask a person, "Are you where you're at based on things that happened to you or because of you?" He said 98% of people will say, "Because of things that happened to me." And then when you ask them about what those things are, you'll find out that it's because of them. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:49:55 Mm.

Andrew Wilson 1:49:55 You'll find out it's because of choices they've made, things that they've done, that's actually res- what's responsible for the conditions that they're in.

Joe Rogan 1:50:03 Oh, and by the way, for people that's not the case, like trust fund kids, are the most miserable motherfuckers-

Andrew Wilson 1:50:09 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:50:09 ... I have ever met in my life.

Andrew Wilson 1:50:11 And they lose it all anyway.

Joe Rogan 1:50:12 They- a lot of them do. But so they- a lot of them are not fully formed human beings, and the way I always describe it, I, I go, "It's like if you give... uh, if you make cement and you don't add all the stuff in the right way-

Andrew Wilson 1:50:25 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:50:25 -you can't fix it later."

Andrew Wilson 1:50:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:50:27 Right? So during the developmental process, if you're fucking Joffrey from Game of Thrones, like, what are the odds that Joffrey-

Andrew Wilson 1:50:34 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:50:34 ... is gonna fucking figure it out and get his shit together and be cool when he gets older?

Andrew Wilson 1:50:37 Yeah, you're, you're just Dexter, and that's it.

Joe Rogan 1:50:39 Exactly.

Andrew Wilson 1:50:39 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:50:40 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:50:40 You're just like, you have the informed experience of the serial killing, and it's like, there's just no fixing you.

Joe Rogan 1:50:45 There's no fixing.

Andrew Wilson 1:50:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:50:45 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:50:45 There's no fixing it. I get that. I just... The thing that's interesting is, like, um, when I look at the, the communist paradigm versus the capital- you know, that's coming back. That paradigm's coming back, and for a while it was kind of shoved off as like, "That's boomer shit." You know, "But the Cold War's over, Grandpa," right? "Cold War's over, Grandpa. There's no communist versus capitalist vers-" That, that's all d- it's like not... It's not, it's not done.

Joe Rogan 1:51:11 No.

Andrew Wilson 1:51:11 Not at all.

Joe Rogan 1:51:12 No, it's not done. It's a story as old as time, and it keeps fucking repeating itself, and it's just weird that people... Well, I- look, but also, I believe in social safety nets because I think that there's a lot of people that are very unfortunate, and there's a lot of people that do grow up with shitty parents or parents that have a bad situation in life. Maybe the father dies or the mother dies, and there's no... Like, it's good to be charitable, and churches are fantastic at that. It's one of the, the more pure charities that you're ever gonna find because their goal is really just to help those people, unlike what, what you think of as charities in the modern sense. One of the grossest fucking things today is these enormous charities that everybody thinks, "Oh, I'm gonna support this charity-

Andrew Wilson 1:51:54 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:51:54 ... it's doing so much good."

Andrew Wilson 1:51:55 90% to the CEO. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:51:57 Yeah, dude, I was watching this thing. The- it was either Li- I think it was Live Aid, you know, o- one of those, uh, one of those concert things. W- it was Bono. What was he involved in? Was it Live Aid?

Andrew Wilson 1:52:07 I don't remember, but Bono, Bono, I remember his speech where he was like, "Capitalism's done more to take people [chuckles] out of poverty than anything else." I thought that was funny.

Joe Rogan 1:52:16 It is funny.

Andrew Wilson 1:52:16 Yeah, but, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:52:17 Yeah, it's true

Andrew Wilson 1:52:17 ... I don't remember which one he was involved in directly, but I know what you're referencing.

Joe Rogan 1:52:21 Well, uh, Mike Benz did this video today, where he was explaining how an enormous percentage of that money went to regime change. [chuckles] Like, it went to prop up, went to prop up CIA operations. Like, the fucking money that people donated so generously to the LA fires, do you ever see where all that went?

Andrew Wilson 1:52:41 Where?

Joe Rogan 1:52:41 It went to, like, 100 different nonprofits. Like, some of it was like, uh, uh, pro-immigration.

Andrew Wilson 1:52:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:52:50 The, uh, it was, it was like... We, we, we, we talked about it the other day. We had a whole list of all the different things that have been documented-

Andrew Wilson 1:52:57 All NGOs

Joe Rogan 1:52:57 ... that, that money- oh, yeah!

Andrew Wilson 1:52:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:52:58 That's all. So very little money-

Andrew Wilson 1:53:00 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:53:00 ... is ever gonna go to the actual people that lost their house. Almost all the money is gonna go to these nonprofits. All these nonprofits have overhead. It goes to their employees, it goes to the overhead costs. All these people got bonuses.

Andrew Wilson 1:53:13 But isn't that the same with the state?

Joe Rogan 1:53:13 Half a million dollars went to bonuses.

Andrew Wilson 1:53:16 Yeah, but that's the same with the state.

Joe Rogan 1:53:17 But how crazy is that? You get a bonus for running a fucking charity?

Andrew Wilson 1:53:21 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:53:21 That's crazy!

Andrew Wilson 1:53:23 Huge bonuses.

Joe Rogan 1:53:24 Huge bonuses.

Andrew Wilson 1:53:25 Like hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions in bonuses.

Joe Rogan 1:53:28 And that's the homeless situation.

Andrew Wilson 1:53:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:53:29 This is the other thing about the homeless situation in California. "Oh, we're gonna p- help the homeless. It's really important to donate to the homeless. Let's help the homeless." California spent $24 billion on the homeless problem. It got worse. Not only did it get worse, they can't account for the money, and when the politicians have unanimously voted to try to do an audit to see where the money goes, Gavin Newsom has vetoed it. It's wild!

Andrew Wilson 1:53:55 Well, isn't it counterintuitive anyway? If you're in an area, and you say, "Look, we're gonna be really good to the homeless here. We're going to give them a lot of money, a lot of entitlements. We're gonna really help them get on their feet," if you were homeless in a neighboring state, where would you go? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:54:12 [chuckles] Yeah, you'd move to a place with awesome weather-

Andrew Wilson 1:54:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:54:14 ... they'll give you money.

Andrew Wilson 1:54:14 Where they're gonna give you money.

Joe Rogan 1:54:15 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:54:16 And so, you know, and they do. They do just that, and so that's why these budgets become very bloated, right?

Joe Rogan 1:54:21 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:54:21 People are like, "Wait a second, there used to be three homeless guys over there. Now there's a tent city. What the hell is going on?"

Joe Rogan 1:54:26 And they all get free crack. [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 1:54:28 Yeah, yeah, or free needles-

Joe Rogan 1:54:29 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 1:54:29 ... in their needle exchange or whatever it is. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:54:32 Yeah, it's, um, very weird.

Andrew Wilson 1:54:32 And it's, it gets worse and worse. The state does the same thing. State is allocating tons and tons of cash that it gets in Social Security taxes. It's not going to Social Security. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:54:41 No.

Andrew Wilson 1:54:41 It's like, these entitlements-

Joe Rogan 1:54:42 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 1:54:42 ... and entitlement spending. And people say-

Joe Rogan 1:54:44 Well, when people found out that Social Security is going to illegal immigrants-

Andrew Wilson 1:54:46 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:54:47 ... an enormous amount of it, they were like, "Wait, wait, what?" And they denied it. They denied it, and then, you know, they had to fess up to it, and whistleblowers and-

Andrew Wilson 1:54:54 Well, why would you have a PAYGO system? Why would you have a system where you're like, "This is social safety net that you're paying into for your retirement, that you have to pay into"? Why wouldn't that go in a lockbox? Why would you have it be, "Well, because, uh, we want access to that money right now, and we'll, we'll pay it out later."

Joe Rogan 1:55:12 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:55:12 "That's what we'll do. We'll pay it out later."

Joe Rogan 1:55:13 Right. [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 1:55:14 Uh, it's like, what? Why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you have it-

Joe Rogan 1:55:17 Sounds like misappropriation.

Andrew Wilson 1:55:18 Of course! [chuckles] It's, it's wi- it's wild that they're allowed to access the Social Security funds that are for your retirement, and then they're like, "Well, we're gonna defund Social Security, so we'll shut the whole government down," [chuckles] right? Uh, "Because then you won't get your Social Security checks. We'll weaponize the entitlement that should just be in a lockbox."

Joe Rogan 1:55:36 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:55:37 ... you know? It's, it- well, uh, we'll, we'll pass funding for it. Funding for the thing they already paid?

Joe Rogan 1:55:42 Well, the idea also is that you are supposed to be paying into it so that you will get money when you retire.

Andrew Wilson 1:55:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:47 But your return on investment is so bad-

Andrew Wilson 1:55:50 It's terrible

Joe Rogan 1:55:51 ... in ver- in, compared to what would happen if you spent that exact same money and put it in, like, a fund, a reliable fund, you would get so much more money when you retire, like an enormous difference.

Andrew Wilson 1:56:01 Well, now, well, now I almost feel like it's hamstringing because if, if it was the case that they let you keep... You could just opt out, you know, "I don't want Social Security, I wanna keep it," and then you took that, and you put it in those hedge funds, and retirement accounts, and things like this, you would way maximize over what you get in Social Security.

Joe Rogan 1:56:20 Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:56:20 You know, so... But you can't opt out, even though it's for you.

Joe Rogan 1:56:23 There's nothing the government does good, not a thing. Not a single thing. So why would they be good at that? And why would anybody support that? They're just not good at it, especially when it comes to money. There's always a bunch of shenanigans that take place, you know? And the idea that they would say, "Oh, Social Security is, uh, sacred. This, this we're gonna really treat- we're gonna maximize your... the, the amount of investment and really take care of people. We're, we, we really care about people."

Andrew Wilson 1:56:48 Yeah. Uh, we care about them tons.

Joe Rogan 1:56:50 It's so naive. It's just-

Andrew Wilson 1:56:51 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:56:51 ... it's so naive and so obviously, uh, an ineffective and possibly corrupt system.

Andrew Wilson 1:56:57 Why hasn't it become a weapon?

Joe Rogan 1:56:58 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:56:58 Entitlements are a weapon.

Joe Rogan 1:56:59 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 1:57:00 They're a political weapon.

Joe Rogan 1:57:01 Well, it, it certainly helps. Yeah, and, and also, again, the suicidal empathy that Gad Saad talks about. If you're on the left, you think of it as being like you're an empathetic person, a kind person, you want people to have money when they retire, you want people to have Medicaid, and you want people to have welfare, and you want people to have SNAP.

Andrew Wilson 1:57:19 Who was the guy you brought up? Um, I'm trying to think of his name. It was like, uh, maybe Professor Raft, something like that. He brought up the Papua New Guinea thing. Do you remember the Papua New Guinea thing?

Joe Rogan 1:57:32 Yes, I do.

Andrew Wilson 1:57:33 Yeah, so on the... that little island-

Joe Rogan 1:57:35 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 1:57:35 ... right, they have the Seminal people, and the Seminal people, basically, they molest young boys. That's what they do, right?

Joe Rogan 1:57:43 Mm-hmm.

Andrew Wilson 1:57:43 Uh, but apparently, the young boys there, they love it because it's a rite of manhood, right? And it's all socially-

Joe Rogan 1:57:48 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 1:57:48 ... conditioned in. The thing is, with suicidal empathy, that's really funny here to point out to a leftist, from their paradigm, there's nothing wrong with that, actually.

Joe Rogan 1:57:57 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:57:57 Where's the harm, right? That's part of the suicidal empathy, of the part of the ideology of suicidal empathy. So like, for me, from my worldview, it's like, I don't care if you don't think there's harm in that. There is. We're stopping it. Emperor Andrew, pfft, done! That's, that's done. No more... That's not allowed. I don't care if it's relativistic or not, it's over, right?

Joe Rogan 1:58:20 Yeah, I mean, it, it's crazy to try to defend that culture. That culture is so wild. The, the semen warriors-

Andrew Wilson 1:58:29 Yes

Joe Rogan 1:58:30 ... of Papua New Guinea.

Andrew Wilson 1:58:30 Yeah, the semen warriors [chuckles] of Papua New Guinea.

Joe Rogan 1:58:33 For people who don't know... And let's, let's, instead of just talking about this, let's read this from, uh, an actual source so we can explain, because w- they call the, the, the, the children, when I think they're six, the boys have to live with a man that they refer to as the anal father. And this guy-

Andrew Wilson 1:58:54 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:58:54 ... and in order for them to grow strong, they have to consume semen-

Andrew Wilson 1:58:58 Yes

Joe Rogan 1:58:59 ... both orally and anally. And so they get mouth-fucked and ass-fucked by this guy, and then they continue that when they grow up.

Andrew Wilson 1:59:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:59:08 And-

Andrew Wilson 1:59:08 As part of their warrior culture. And what stopped it? You know, what's- what ended up finally stopping a lot of that?

Joe Rogan 1:59:15 It's not going on anymore?

Andrew Wilson 1:59:16 It still is, but it... a lot of it was stopped, depending on the tribe you were in, because of Christian missionaries.

Joe Rogan 1:59:22 Interesting.

Andrew Wilson 1:59:23 Because of Christian missionaries. But here's the thing that cracks me up, right, in this whole culturally relativistic nonsense, harm principle stuff. You're Christopher Columbus, and you show up, and if a culture is doing that, don't you put them to the sword?

Joe Rogan 1:59:36 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:59:37 Like, if you see the pyramids, and they're cutting people's hearts out, and, like, we're holding it up to this-

Joe Rogan 1:59:41 Uh-huh

Andrew Wilson 1:59:41 ... to, to, to Ra or whatever, you're like, "I'm supposed to feel bad that [chuckles] they got... that they put you to the sword?"

Joe Rogan 1:59:48 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:59:48 Like, it's really hard for me to feel bad about that.

Joe Rogan 1:59:51 Right.

Andrew Wilson 1:59:51 You know, it's really hard for me to be upset about that. But with the Seminal people, same thing. It's like, if you went in there and you just used strong-arm force... This is why the libertarian NAP and stuff like that, I disagree with. 'Cause, like, if you went in there and used strong-arm force and just stopped it immediately, so what?

Joe Rogan 2:00:07 Right.

Andrew Wilson 2:00:07 So what? How's the world a worse place for this? How is it... You know, like-

Joe Rogan 2:00:11 Right

Andrew Wilson 2:00:11 ... and how is that not ultimately stopping an egregious, sinful act, uh, that you can stop with ease?

Joe Rogan 2:00:17 Right.

Andrew Wilson 2:00:17 Like, why not? Why not do that?

Joe Rogan 2:00:19 Well, one of the things, uh... I got really into, uh, Aztecs recently, and because I, I did- I wasn't aware, um, that a lot of those temples that they found- you would think that the people that built those incredible pyramids and temples-

Andrew Wilson 2:00:35 No, they found them, didn't they?

Joe Rogan 2:00:36 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:00:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:00:36 You would think they have to be an incredibly sophisticated society.

Andrew Wilson 2:00:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:00:38 Well, it turns out they didn't really build them.

Andrew Wilson 2:00:40 No, they found them.

Joe Rogan 2:00:40 They found them.

Andrew Wilson 2:00:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:00:42 And they referred to them as the place where the gods were born. I didn't know that. I, I, I was always told that they built these incredible structures, and then the Spaniards came, and then they found them, and... No, when-

Andrew Wilson 2:00:52 No, they were primitives who found, who found something that-

Joe Rogan 2:00:55 Exactly

Andrew Wilson 2:00:55 ... was extremely advanced and then used it for their primitive applications.

Joe Rogan 2:00:59 Not just primitive, but barbaric.

Andrew Wilson 2:01:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:01 Um, when they completed the consecration of the Temple of Tenochtitlan, they killed somewhere between 20,000 on the low end and 80,000 on the high end. They sacrificed 20,000 to 80,000 people within four days. In four days. And this was documented by... God, I forget his name. Um, something Diaz. He was a Spanish chronicler. Because so this is before Cortez came. They, you know, they, they, they started, like, trying to figure out what's going on over there, and one, one of the things that this guy came back, he said-... this place is fucking crazy.

Andrew Wilson 2:01:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:43 Like, they killed 80,000 people. And a lot of people have disputed the 80,000 people, but then they found so many bones that they're like, "Okay, it's probably somewhere north of 20,000," which is crazy enough!

Andrew Wilson 2:01:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:01:57 They sacrificed them in four fucking days.

Andrew Wilson 2:01:59 But morality is relative.

Joe Rogan 2:02:01 Right.

Andrew Wilson 2:02:01 You know? Cool.

Speaker 2:02:02 I think the number was 4,000 maybe.

Joe Rogan 2:02:03 What's that, Shane?

Speaker 2:02:04 As many as 4,000 was as max as they got to-

Joe Rogan 2:02:06 [clears throat] What do you mean, bones?

Speaker 2:02:07 ... discrepancies. Yeah, the people. The, if- even if they did 20,000, I think the number I think I saw was 4 people, or f- it was like 4 people every minute you would've had to do, or it was f- it was something that almost impossible to accomplish.

Andrew Wilson 2:02:20 Good Lord.

Speaker 2:02:20 They just said the number was probably exaggerated a lot.

Joe Rogan 2:02:22 Right, but they said that the... No, I think if you- are you sure?

Speaker 2:02:25 I looked it up. I looked it up something you brought up last week.

Joe Rogan 2:02:26 But I looked it up, too. I looked it up yesterday, actually.

Speaker 2:02:29 Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:02:29 I looked it up yesterday, and they were saying that, uh, that this guy... Who was the guy that, um... Okay. We can- I can- I know I have it saved, so I can find it in here. Um, so this guy, uh, this Diaz guy-

Andrew Wilson 2:02:50 Who's chronicling this.

Joe Rogan 2:02:51 Yeah, who chronicled it in the 16th century.

Andrew Wilson 2:02:52 How long before Cortez was this?

Joe Rogan 2:02:54 Really, really soon.

Andrew Wilson 2:02:55 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:02:55 Like, within a couple of decades before Cortez. [coughs] Yeah. Um, oh, God, I'm trying to find it. But it-

Speaker 2:03:08 It does say maybe, I don't know, just the, the Perplexity thing said Spanish sources claimed 80,400 victims, and this is at 1487.

Joe Rogan 2:03:15 Right. That's it.

Speaker 2:03:16 But modern estimates suggest 4,000 to maybe 20,000.

Joe Rogan 2:03:19 Right. So 20- okay, they don't-

Andrew Wilson 2:03:22 But-

Joe Rogan 2:03:22 ... really know. So 20, 80,000 might be exaggerated if you think about the number, but just think about 20,000 people. Killing 20,000 people by cutting their hearts out and throwing them down the steps of the pyramid in four days is fucking crazy. So if you're the Spanish, the, the Spaniards, and you come here, you don't feel bad about conquering those fuckers.

Andrew Wilson 2:03:41 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 2:03:41 You're like, "What are you guys doing?" Or how about when they showed up, and they found the Mayans, and they're playing football with human heads?

Andrew Wilson 2:03:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:03:47 Now, here's a funny one: they don't want to believe that they played football with human heads. So historians try to say that they didn't play football with human heads, even though there's artistic depictions of them playing football with human heads. They're like, "No, that was just symbolic." Well, did they sacrifice humans? "Yes, they did, but, um-

Andrew Wilson 2:04:06 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:04:06 ... we don't think they played football with their heads. That would be rude."

Andrew Wilson 2:04:08 It's that, that whole myth of the noble savage.

Joe Rogan 2:04:10 Exactly.

Andrew Wilson 2:04:11 And that whole-

Joe Rogan 2:04:12 Exactly

Andrew Wilson 2:04:12 ... myth of the noble savage is something which is utilized by the left in order to make the claim that you are an imperialist and an occupier-

Joe Rogan 2:04:23 A colonist

Andrew Wilson 2:04:23 ... and a person who- yeah, you, you have colonized-

Joe Rogan 2:04:26 Yes

Andrew Wilson 2:04:27 ... their land. And the thing is, is it's like, if that's what we colonized, why do I care? I ask this question all the time: Why do I care if that's what I colonized? If that's what my ancestors colonized, why should I give a shit about that?

Joe Rogan 2:04:42 Well, there's an amazing book about Texas called, uh, Empire of the Summer Moon. Uh, it's all about the Comanche. This entire land used to be, before Mexico owned it... By the way, [chuckles] one of, one of the funny things, this lady said to me, "You know, uh, this all used to be Mexico." I'm like, "Right, but do you know how, for how long? 15 years." Like, I've been here for six. Like, you gotta let that go. That's not that long, 15 years. And by the way, Mexico was only one-

Andrew Wilson 2:05:08 And we had an Alamo over it, okay?

Joe Rogan 2:05:10 Yeah, and by the way, Mexico was only one when it owned Texas. Mexico started in 1820.

Andrew Wilson 2:05:14 With its new constitution?

Joe Rogan 2:05:16 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:05:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:05:17 Because then... Well, also, you have the language and the religion of your oppressors that you're trying to say is this noble and incredible culture-

Andrew Wilson 2:05:25 Yeah [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:05:25 ... that you're bringing over to America.

Andrew Wilson 2:05:27 And you're all Catholic. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:05:28 And, yeah, you're all Catholic. Y'all speak Spanish.

Andrew Wilson 2:05:30 Yeah. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:05:30 They used to have... Well, first of all, the people, the Native American people and the original people, and the Aztecs, the Mayans, the Mexicans, it's essentially the same kind of people. A lot of them are... They look the same. It's like, if you look at Sitting Bull-

Andrew Wilson 2:05:46 My wife calls them-

Joe Rogan 2:05:47 ... he looks like he'd be working at a taqueria.

Andrew Wilson 2:05:48 [chuckles] My wife calls them the pygmy people.

Joe Rogan 2:05:50 Oh, they're tiny little people-

Andrew Wilson 2:05:51 Yes

Joe Rogan 2:05:51 ... in the Maya.

Andrew Wilson 2:05:52 Pygmy people.

Joe Rogan 2:05:52 And they didn't have any protein.

Andrew Wilson 2:05:53 They have flat noses and-

Joe Rogan 2:05:54 Mm-hmm

Andrew Wilson 2:05:55 ... they like- yeah, they look like pygmy people.

Joe Rogan 2:05:57 Well, the, the, the original people of Mexico had, or what the land of Mexico, had over 100 languages. The Mayans alone had 30 different languages. They're all lost. Like, these languages are all lost, and we're supposed to think it's noble that this am- amazing culture, that have the language and the religion of their oppressors, and they wanna mo- move here with this language. They're colonizing.

Andrew Wilson 2:06:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:06:21 They're trying to colonize a place... You've been colonized. You're trying to colonize. And here's the thing about colonizing: everybody, everybody that doesn't live in Africa, somewhere in their ancestry, there was a colonizer. Like, if you go to Minnesota, and you see these Somali communities, and everyone's speaking Somali, and they have Somali businesses, what do you think that is? It's a colony.

Andrew Wilson 2:06:48 Of course.

Joe Rogan 2:06:49 It's just not a big one. It just hasn't taken over the entire country. And when it does, you'll think it's great because they're not white.

Andrew Wilson 2:06:54 Right. [laughing] Well, they're not colonizers. They're not col- can you see? White-

Joe Rogan 2:06:59 They're immigrants.

Andrew Wilson 2:07:00 They're immigrants, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:01 Right, white people are colonizers.

Andrew Wilson 2:07:02 Yeah, white, white people are the colonizers-

Joe Rogan 2:07:03 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 2:07:03 ... everyone else is the immigrant.

Joe Rogan 2:07:05 Nobody feels bad for Swedish chicks with big tits that are moving to America. You don't think that those are colonists.

Andrew Wilson 2:07:10 Yeah, don't care.

Joe Rogan 2:07:11 Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:07:11 Don't care. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:12 Nobody cares.

Andrew Wilson 2:07:13 It's only, it's only the coloni- it's only the colonization... Oh, man. Well, the thing is funny, moving back to the, to the myth of the noble savage thing, how weaponized that is when so much of it isn't true. Like, for instance, you've heard of the two-spirits?

Joe Rogan 2:07:27 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 2:07:27 Right? That's all, that's all, that's all bullshit, too. The whole two-spirit people, all bullshit. Came from, like, one guy, I don't remember, started with a B, right? Um, who, like, Bardejov or something like this, that they called him, right? And it was one tribe of people-... who d- who, uh, had some, like, weird thing that they did. That was it!

Joe Rogan 2:07:47 Well, it was probably gay guys.

Andrew Wilson 2:07:49 Yeah, that was the whole-

Joe Rogan 2:07:49 It was gay guys that liked dressing up like women.

Andrew Wilson 2:07:51 Yeah, that's where the whole two-spirit thing came.

Joe Rogan 2:07:53 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:07:53 And then suddenly it's like, "No, the Native Americans had the two-spirit..." It's like, no-

Joe Rogan 2:07:57 Eh. [chuckles]

Andrew Wilson 2:07:58 ... no, no. No, no. No, no, no. That is not the case-

Joe Rogan 2:08:01 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 2:08:01 ... at all. You just made it up because then you could throw it in with your Skittles bullshit.

Joe Rogan 2:08:06 Right. [laughs]

Andrew Wilson 2:08:06 So [chuckles] that's the-

Joe Rogan 2:08:08 Rainbow!

Andrew Wilson 2:08:08 [chuckles] Yeah, it's throw it in with-

Joe Rogan 2:08:10 Skittles

Andrew Wilson 2:08:10 ... the Skittles bullshit.

Joe Rogan 2:08:11 The rainbow. Yeah. Well, n- the thing about this area here, before Mexico owned it, it was Comancheria. Uh, it was owned by the Comanche. But you know how they owned it? 'Cause they killed the fucking Apache. That's, that's how-

Andrew Wilson 2:08:24 Colonizers.

Joe Rogan 2:08:24 Yeah. Well, they were fucking brutal.

Andrew Wilson 2:08:26 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:08:26 That's why this Empire of the Summer Moon book is so good, 'cause it just shows you how unbelievably barbaric the Comanche were. They were the baddest motherfuckers around, 'cause they had figured out horse raising. Um, and by the way, they only got those from the Spanish.

Andrew Wilson 2:08:42 From Europe. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:08:42 Yeah, they-

Andrew Wilson 2:08:43 From Europeans, right?

Joe Rogan 2:08:43 Yeah, which is crazy, because horses actually originated-

Andrew Wilson 2:08:46 From Europe

Joe Rogan 2:08:46 ... in North America.

Andrew Wilson 2:08:48 I thought they were in Europe and brought here in from Europe, horses.

Joe Rogan 2:08:51 No.

Andrew Wilson 2:08:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:08:51 No, horses originated in North America, and then made their way to Asia, and then were wiped out in North America-

Andrew Wilson 2:08:57 Oh, okay

Joe Rogan 2:08:57 ... and then reintroduced by the Spanish.

Andrew Wilson 2:08:58 Okay, so... But the, but the Natives didn't have access-

Joe Rogan 2:09:02 Did not have horses

Andrew Wilson 2:09:02 ... to them until-

Joe Rogan 2:09:02 No

Andrew Wilson 2:09:02 ... Europeans brought... Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:09:04 Yeah, but-

Andrew Wilson 2:09:04 That's what I thought

Joe Rogan 2:09:04 ... their culture was so incredibly wild. If you think about it, like, you, you, you know, you're talking about... Well, you, you think about Europe and Asia, you've got people riding horses and building cities, and you've got, like, agriculture and all these things.

Andrew Wilson 2:09:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:09:22 And in North America, you basically have Stone Age people. It's really kind of crazy, really kind of fascinating. And then they get horses, and the Comanche were the first ones to really figure out horse breeding. They figured out how, you know, the, how to castrate their horses, so they-

Andrew Wilson 2:09:37 And they became Mongols?

Joe Rogan 2:09:38 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:09:39 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:09:39 They basically became Mongols.

Andrew Wilson 2:09:39 Yeah, they became Mongols-

Joe Rogan 2:09:40 Right

Andrew Wilson 2:09:40 ... once they had access to horses.

Joe Rogan 2:09:42 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:09:42 Well, that was what... That was the whole distinction anyway. If you, if you reduce it all between the two civilizations, Europeans had domesticatable animals, Natives didn't.

Joe Rogan 2:09:51 Right.

Andrew Wilson 2:09:51 And because we had domesticatable animals, we had labor, we built these, these amazing societies, and they didn't.

Joe Rogan 2:09:58 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:09:58 Like, the difference that a work ox and a workhorse can make in labor is astronomical.

Joe Rogan 2:10:05 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:10:06 And so, you know, like, um, that's, that's the real difference. Same thing with disease. They're like, "Ah, you know, the whites brought over all their diseases." It's like, well, all those came from animals. Smallpox, all that, got immunity because we, of animal husbandry. They didn't have any immunity to any of that.

Joe Rogan 2:10:20 Not only that, there's real evidence that syphilis came from Native Americans, and then they brought that, at least some forms of syphilis, and they brought that syphilis-

Andrew Wilson 2:10:28 Back

Joe Rogan 2:10:28 ... back to Europe.

Andrew Wilson 2:10:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:10:29 And then all the Europeans started going crazy and getting holes in their head and losing all their hair.

Andrew Wilson 2:10:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:10:34 And that's where the big wigs came from.

Andrew Wilson 2:10:35 And then eating mercury pills to cure themselves. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:10:38 [laughing] It's crazy what people used to believe.

Andrew Wilson 2:10:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:10:42 It's really kind of fascinating. But the point is, even the people that lived in America before the settlers came, those people came from somewhere else. They came from Siberia. You know, everyone's a colonizer. Everyone, all over the world. People, they- you start in Africa, a million years ago or whatever it is, and then people start slowly moving away from the people that were kicking their ass, looking for a better place to live.

Andrew Wilson 2:11:06 But isn't the whole thing from the leftist paradigm just to create, um, or to delegitimize, uh, the fact that you can say, "What do you mean? My, my grandpa was born here-"

Joe Rogan 2:11:17 Right.

Andrew Wilson 2:11:18 "... his grandpa was born here," right?

Joe Rogan 2:11:19 No, he was a colonizer.

Andrew Wilson 2:11:20 I'm an American-

Joe Rogan 2:11:21 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 2:11:21 ... and I have a right to my nation, because, uh, by birth, I have a birth right to, to the land that I'm on, and so do my fellow countrymen. And they... Nope, it's an attempt to delegitimize that, right?

Joe Rogan 2:11:32 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 2:11:32 That's the whole point, just to delegitimize your claim to your own land.

Joe Rogan 2:11:36 Well, it's what we were talking about earlier with lefts- with leftists, where there's this purity test that no one can ever pass. 'Cause they'll always keep pushing the boundaries further and further. You're, you're never going to be... Y- there's, there's no, like, real Americans. Everyone who's white is a colonizer.

Andrew Wilson 2:11:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:51 Yeah. It's just, it's fucking goofy, and it's just designed to point at someone, that someone is the bad person, and this is the reason why life sucks. And also dismiss any of the terrible activities that any of the other people participate in, because, like, "Oh, they're, they're just oppressed. They're oppressed people, so they're lashing out."

Andrew Wilson 2:12:13 Do you think... What, like, if you had, if you... Again, the bird's-eye view. What do you think the left, what do you think their end goal is here?

Joe Rogan 2:12:20 I don't think they know. I don't think their end goal... Their end goal is their enemy is the, the right, and the right is Nazis and fascists. They want to eliminate the Nazis and f- they want to roll initiative.

Andrew Wilson 2:12:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:12:30 Roll initiative.

Andrew Wilson 2:12:31 Roll initiative, right.

Joe Rogan 2:12:32 Yeah, they want... And they, they think-

Andrew Wilson 2:12:33 2D6 damage-

Joe Rogan 2:12:34 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 2:12:34 ... it's happening.

Joe Rogan 2:12:34 [chuckles] And they think that once they get into power, everything will be fine. But it's not going to. And not only that, what would be fascinating is if, uh, someone from the left started behaving exactly like the people that are on the right, just did it from a perspective of the left, where you would think, "Oh, this is okay." And that's what we got during the Obama administration. I sent you this thing, Jamie, a little bit ago, the clip of Obama talking about immigration.

Joe Rogan 2:13:05 And by the way, Obama d- I, and I was mistaken on this. I thought that a lot of the people that Obama deported were people that were turned away at the border. Uh-uh. That was a third. Most of the people out of the, I think it was 3 million over the course of his presidency, [tsks] uh, that were deported, were fucking deported, like arrested, deported. A lot of people were killed. Let's put on the headphones so we can listen to this speech, 'cause this, this sounds very MAGA. Listen to this.

Speaker 2:13:35 There are those [coughs] in the immigrants' rights community who have argued passionately that we should simply provide those who are illegally with legal status, or-... at least ignore the laws on the books and put an end to deportation until we have better laws. And often this argument is framed in moral terms: Why should we punish people who are just trying to earn a living? I recognize the sense of compassion that drives this argument, but I believe such an indiscriminate approach would be both unwise and unfair. It would suggest to those think- thinking about coming here illegally that there will be no repercussions for such a decision, and this could lead to a surge in more illegal immigration. And it would also ignore the millions of people around the world who are waiting in line to come here legally. Ultimately, our nation, like all nations, has the right and obligation to control its borders and set laws for residency and citizenship. And no matter how decent they are, no matter their reasons, the 11 million who broke these laws should be held accountable.

Joe Rogan 2:15:08 [laughs] That sounds so Republican! In 2010, that was a Democrat saying that, and everybody was like, "Well, okay."

Andrew Wilson 2:15:17 That's reasonable-

Joe Rogan 2:15:18 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 2:15:18 ... and rational.

Joe Rogan 2:15:18 And not that, Tom Homan, who is the head now-

Andrew Wilson 2:15:22 I know, was the- yeah

Joe Rogan 2:15:22 ... was the guy then, and he gave him a fucking medal. Find the clip of Hillary when she's running in 2012, where Hillary is more MAGA than Trump. The way she frames things is so hardcore right-wing, she sounds to the right of Marjorie Taylor Greene. If you've never seen this... Have you seen this one?

Andrew Wilson 2:15:44 I think so, but I'm gonna look again.

Joe Rogan 2:15:46 It's wonderful. It's wonderful, 'cause it just shows you how much horse shit- By the way, how good was he? He was such a good spokesperson. Like, the way he talked was so... It was so measured and s- so noble in the way he phrased his, uh, his sentences. Like, it was really- it's really interesting how much perception plays a factor in what you think of as, like, someone being a good president, because everybody on the left thinks of him as being, like, the most amazing president ever.

Andrew Wilson 2:16:12 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:16:13 I feel like there was an op-ed.

Joe Rogan 2:16:13 No, this isn't the one.

Andrew Wilson 2:16:14 And he wasn't.

Speaker 2:16:15 Yeah, I know. It keeps coming up, though, when I'm looking for it.

Joe Rogan 2:16:16 But this isn't the one. The one is she's giving a speech.

Speaker 2:16:20 That's what I thought I was looking for, but I didn't even type in what I was looking for. I just typed in 2012, and that's the thing that keeps coming up.

Joe Rogan 2:16:25 Maybe it's not 2012. It might have been 2008. Don't, don't... D- do, uh, Hillary is more MAGA than, than Trump. See if you can find it. Uh, it's... I know it's on YouTube, but it's this amazing campaign speech, where-

Speaker 2:16:42 I got it.

Joe Rogan 2:16:42 You got it?

Speaker 2:16:42 Uh, this is 2008.

Joe Rogan 2:16:45 Is it 2008? Yeah, that's it. That's it. Here it is. Listen to this. [laughs] I love this one.

Speaker 2:16:52 So I think we gotta have tough conditions. Tell people to come out of the shadows. If they've committed a crime, deport them, no questions asked. They're gone. [clapping] If they-

Joe Rogan 2:17:02 Cheers. Cheers from the Democrats.

Speaker 2:17:04 If they've been working and are law-abiding, we should say, "Here are the conditions for you staying. You have to pay a stiff fine because you came here illegally, you have to pay back taxes, and you have to try to learn English-

Joe Rogan 2:17:16 [laughs]

Speaker 2:17:17 ... and you have to wait in line." [cheering]

Joe Rogan 2:17:19 You're gonna learn English! Everybody's cheering. [laughs]

Andrew Wilson 2:17:21 Yeah, they love it. They love it.

Joe Rogan 2:17:24 And now- [laughs]

Andrew Wilson 2:17:26 Now you're a Nazi.

Joe Rogan 2:17:27 Now Trump- Trump's a Nazi.

Andrew Wilson 2:17:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:17:28 Trump's a Nazi.

Andrew Wilson 2:17:29 That is more right-wing than Marjorie Taylor Greene. Yeah, the, the Democrats were... I mean, y- there used to be labor unions that would put pressure on him, right? Uh, this was a big thing.

Joe Rogan 2:17:42 Right.

Andrew Wilson 2:17:42 Like, there was labor unions, that was what the Democrats had.

Joe Rogan 2:17:45 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 2:17:45 And the labor unions did not want, uh, the cheap labor to come in and displace them from having their nice little high-wage jobs.

Joe Rogan 2:17:52 Exactly.

Andrew Wilson 2:17:52 And so it was all about, "We gotta deport the illegals." Like, but what did Bernie Sanders say? Mass illegal immigration-

Joe Rogan 2:17:59 Is a right-wing-

Andrew Wilson 2:17:59 ... is a right-wing-

Joe Rogan 2:18:00 Yes

Andrew Wilson 2:18:00 ... Koch brothers, uh, conspiracy-

Joe Rogan 2:18:02 Yes

Andrew Wilson 2:18:02 ... to bring in cheap labor.

Joe Rogan 2:18:04 Yes.

Andrew Wilson 2:18:04 And he wasn't wrong.

Joe Rogan 2:18:05 Right.

Andrew Wilson 2:18:05 Okay? He wasn't wrong.

Joe Rogan 2:18:06 He wasn't wrong.

Andrew Wilson 2:18:07 But the thing, but the thing is, is it's like, what the hell are we fighting over here?

Joe Rogan 2:18:11 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:18:11 Well, we're fighting over the fact that, uh, the, the left is just trying to aggrandize itself with power, and they don't really care about what the moral paradigm is. As long as they can get their people in power, they'll use anything as a linchpin issue.

Joe Rogan 2:18:23 That's right. That's right. It's all about power. The whole thing is about power, and that's what people need to truly understand. You're being played. You're being played. You're being played in Minneapolis, you're being played, uh, all around the country. It's, it's about power. It's about them getting power. I mean, if you think that once they get complete... If they did... W- they were successful, they imported millions more to all these swing states, they allow them to vote, they completely rig the system-

Andrew Wilson 2:18:48 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:18:48 ... now it's only- you think that's gonna be good for everybody? You're out of your fucking mind.

Andrew Wilson 2:18:51 Yeah. Well, let me ask you this: Do you think then that Christians knowing this, they know that these are bids for power? When you have Christian nationalism on the rise and Christians moving towards that, doesn't that seem like it's a rational and reasonable thing to do for them to want... 'Cause it, the mindset of, "If we're not in power, they will be in power"?

Joe Rogan 2:19:14 It's rational from their perspective, for sure. What people are terrified of is that it would restrict the freedom of religion, and that you would impose Christianity on the entire country, you know? And I, I don't think you should impose any kind of religion on any people. I think people should be free.

Andrew Wilson 2:19:28 I've never seen the th- I know that they... There are, of course, the, the people who push that there has to be an established theocracy in order for Christian nationalism to work. But the frameworks that I've seen that have political legitimacy don't seem to push for that at all.... they push instead that the idea is that Christians should not be hamstrung from the ideals of, of holding power itself, that that does not make you bad or evil or awful, no matter what the left says Christian- or how Christians are supposed to act, and that when you are in power, you should rule with Christian ethics in mind. That's how you're supposed to pass policy, public, you know, public, uh, public policy of all kinds, is through those ethical means.

Joe Rogan 2:20:10 That's what it sounds like to me.

Andrew Wilson 2:20:11 Not, not, "Hey-

Joe Rogan 2:20:12 Right.

Andrew Wilson 2:20:12 -it's gonna be a theocracy."

Joe Rogan 2:20:14 Right.

Andrew Wilson 2:20:15 Um, that doesn't seem like it's a n- a necessary component.

Joe Rogan 2:20:19 No. Well, uh, people are afraid of the concept of a theocracy, and I think that people are afraid of just human nature, and that if people did get into power, that that's what it would become. Just like these people are just trying to get into power, that they would use Christianity as a, as a vehicle, and they would just use that as an ability to control people. The, the, the real concern is just human nature. Human beings, when they get into any position of power, like to keep it and expand it. It's like that's what they do. You know, I, I tell jokes, I talk shit, that's what I do. I like to talk shit-

Andrew Wilson 2:20:50 Sure

Joe Rogan 2:20:50 ... I like to tell more jokes.

Andrew Wilson 2:20:51 But there have been good kings, right?

Joe Rogan 2:20:53 There have been, but boy, good luck. Good luck finding a benevolent dictator to like really-

Andrew Wilson 2:20:58 Well, not anymore. I don't, I don't think you would have to use a... utilize a dictatorship, but if it's the case that we can point to, like, there were people who had a lot of power, who fundamentally were pretty good.

Joe Rogan 2:21:08 It's possible.

Andrew Wilson 2:21:08 What was it that they're pointing to that made them good? Like, is there something we can point society towards that can make our leaders a bit better, that can make our leadership not hyper-focus on, uh, the nonsense of, like, gay marriage and stuff like that, which is completely and totally unimportant at the political level, and shouldn't even be up to the federal government anyway.

Joe Rogan 2:21:30 Yeah, and I think it's a political tool, too. You know, uh, Ana Paulina Luna w- was on the podcast, and she said something that I really didn't consider about certain political problems that exist in this country, that they don't want to solve them-

Andrew Wilson 2:21:44 Right

Joe Rogan 2:21:44 ... because they want to use them to finance their campaigns. They want to run on those principles.

Andrew Wilson 2:21:49 They need to-

Joe Rogan 2:21:49 They want to run on that being a problem

Andrew Wilson 2:21:50 ... it needs to always be there.

Joe Rogan 2:21:51 It needs to always be there.

Andrew Wilson 2:21:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:21:52 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:21:52 It needs to always be there as an issue, and it's like-

Joe Rogan 2:21:54 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 2:21:54 ... uh, I feel, I, I think a lot of these can be solved. Like, uh, if we, if we were to have politicians en masse, and their supporters en masse, who followed Christian ethics, I do think a lot of those sub-issues get solved very quickly.

Joe Rogan 2:22:07 If it's true Christianity, if they really do follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. But I think what people are really worried about is, like... When people think about Christians, they think about the worst-case scenario of Christianity, which is, like, evangelicals on television-

Andrew Wilson 2:22:21 Sure

Joe Rogan 2:22:21 ... that just try to get private jets.

Andrew Wilson 2:22:23 But how is electing atheists better, or electing-

Joe Rogan 2:22:25 It's not

Andrew Wilson 2:22:25 ... socialists better, or electing any of these people better?

Joe Rogan 2:22:28 No.

Andrew Wilson 2:22:28 It can't be better, right?

Joe Rogan 2:22:29 Right, it's not better. Like, if someone's a complete sociopath that doesn't have any moral framework, like a Gavin Newsom-type guy-

Andrew Wilson 2:22:35 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:22:35 ... like, that's, that's even more terrifying.

Andrew Wilson 2:22:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:22:38 Yeah. It's-

Andrew Wilson 2:22:38 So it's like if we... If I'm gonna be ruled, can I at least be ruled by people who have my ethics or [chuckles] ...

Joe Rogan 2:22:44 Really, who really believe in that they're trying to make the world a better place, and they're not just trying to acquire wealth and, and help their donors acquire more wealth. It's spooky. It's spooky because people that have power, the... You know, it scares the shit out of everybody else, and it should, because historically, it's never been good. It's almost always when people have power, they want more power, and they wanna also support the people that helped them acquire that power, and then they wanna make sure they got that power locked down. So what's the best way to do that? Well, you restrict people's ability to express themselves, you restrict people's ability to travel, you take away as much money as possible, tax them as highly as possible, so they're always in this, like, state of constantly struggling to pay their bills. You keep them comf- no one's comfortable, ever, and then, you know, have this p- problem that we have to solve. This is why you have a problem. It's, uh, these people.

Andrew Wilson 2:23:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:23:35 These people over here.

Andrew Wilson 2:23:35 And we're the so- we're the solution-

Joe Rogan 2:23:37 Yeah

Andrew Wilson 2:23:37 ... the causers.

Joe Rogan 2:23:38 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:23:38 The causers are the solution.

Joe Rogan 2:23:40 Do you, uh... You know, one of the things that I, I, you, you engage in so many fucking debates, man. I've, I've watched- I've consumed a lot of your content online, and I always wonder, like, what... Does that wear on you after a while?

Andrew Wilson 2:23:52 Constantly. Oh, yeah, all the time. All the time. Well, the thing is, is it... [sighs] So I, I argue from a worldview. My worldview is Christian ethics, and this is the foundation from which all other arguments are starting and ending. Now, I, I'm happy to meet people in the middle. A lot of people want to argue in the middle, right? We're gonna get past all the foundational stuff, and we're gonna go to the menu, or the middle of the argument and start there. And I'm kind of happy to do that, to kind of move the, move everything backwards or forwards, so we can either get to the end, or we can get to the beginning and get this figured out. Yes, what wears on me the most about it is, there's a lot of people who I debate with who I know don't believe what they're saying.

Joe Rogan 2:24:34 Mm.

Andrew Wilson 2:24:35 I know. I know for sure, and I... There's moments where I catch myself, where I recognize it, right then, that moment in the debate, and then I'll hammer them. But it happens all the time, where I'm like, "You don't believe that shit." There's no way, and then they'll come back with a, you know, with a re- "I do!" And, and, and you can just tell it's disingenuous.

Joe Rogan 2:24:54 Yeah.

Andrew Wilson 2:24:55 Right? I can't logically show it. I- there's no way for me to logically show necessarily your mo- your motivation, maybe in extreme contexts. But yeah, man, there's people who are pretty disingenuous about their view, and there's times where it comes out, and the whole audience can see it, and you can see it, and you're just like: Just why? Just why are you d- like, you don't even believe this shit yourself, and you're, you're propagating it on other people, and you know people will follow it. You know, there's some cash there. You know, there's a... But you're doing it anyway. You're doing it anyway. Like, I've always thought in my head, you take a guy like Destiny, right? The Coomer Gremlin, as I like to call him, okay?

Joe Rogan 2:25:32 [chuckles] What do you call him, the what?

Andrew Wilson 2:25:32 The Coomer Gremlin.

Joe Rogan 2:25:33 What's that mean?

Andrew Wilson 2:25:34 Well, like, coomer. Like, he just... All he does is, he, he basically-

Joe Rogan 2:25:37 What's that word, coomer?

Andrew Wilson 2:25:37 ... He's, like, a sexual degenerate, right?

Joe Rogan 2:25:40 Is that what a coomer is?

Andrew Wilson 2:25:41 Yeah. Well, a coomer, it's, uh, it's a little more mild than that. A coomer is just like, um, kind of, one of the higher values is just kind of having sex with everyone, [chuckles] right, that's around. Like, that's what you do, you coom.

Joe Rogan 2:25:50 But he's, like, bisexual, right?

Andrew Wilson 2:25:52 Yeah, yeah. He did... Yeah, well, he's all kinds of sexual, apparently. But the thing is, is like,