Joe Rogan Experience #2449 - Raul Bilecky

Speaker 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music]

Joe Rogan 0:12 Raul.

Raul Bilecky 0:13 Joe. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 0:13 Very nice to meet you, brother.

Raul Bilecky 0:14 It's so good to be here.

Joe Rogan 0:15 I have enjoyed your content tremendously online, and, uh, I really got into a video this morning that I was watching, where you found this megalithic site that was undocumented in Peru. It's incredible that they still have these ancient sites that, for whatever reason, it seems like the, um, the money that they get, gets stolen. Like, the money that is supposed to be allocated towards documenting these things and registering these things, people just say, "Fuck it, I'm gonna pocket it," and-

Raul Bilecky 0:49 It happens a lot more than you would- you think.

Joe Rogan 0:51 Ah, just hard to believe, man. Uh, some of the stuff that you document is very heartbreaking. Like, uh, one of them was when you flew a drone over these ancient ruins, and you showed the amount of places that have been looted.

Raul Bilecky 1:08 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08 And it's just all of it. It's just po- you see these holes, and when I first saw that, I'm like, "What is, what is he showing me?" And then you're like, "These are all spots where someone has dug in and looted," and most of it has been done in this area of Peru over the last 20 years.

Raul Bilecky 1:27 Over the last 20 years.

Joe Rogan 1:28 So from 2006 to 2026, more-

Raul Bilecky 1:31 I, I, I would add, the biggest amount of looting happened... It's actually died down some, uh, but the end of the 20- so 1980s to 2010s, I would say-

Joe Rogan 1:42 That's when it really-

Raul Bilecky 1:43 ... that's when, like, when it really took off.

Joe Rogan 1:46 [exhales]

Raul Bilecky 1:47 And you can tell from the trash that's left there, like cigarettes that were only produced in the '80s-

Joe Rogan 1:52 Oh

Raul Bilecky 1:52 ... you know, soda bottles that were only produced in the '90s, things like that.

Joe Rogan 1:55 How nice of them to steal the artifacts and leave trash. [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 1:59 Dude, it- they've become landfills of, of human remains. It's, uh... Th- this place you're talking about is, I mean, it's eight full kilometers of just... It looks like the moon. Every single location has been looted, and I was like, "I gotta go up, up there and see what this looks like." And, and so-

Joe Rogan 2:20 Pull up to the microphone a little bit more there. So looting, what are they... At, at that point in time, I mean, these are hundreds, thousands of years old, these sites, so what are they finding?

Raul Bilecky 2:32 Well, a lot of the mummies that I've-- 'cause I've, I've found mummies that have been torn, torn apart, literally. Like, they're, the cotton that they're wrapped in, the textiles that they're wrapped in, I mean, it's just, they've been scavenged.

Joe Rogan 2:45 Are they looking for jewels?

Raul Bilecky 2:46 Or for some sort of metallurgy-

Joe Rogan 2:48 Mm-hmm

Raul Bilecky 2:48 ... like, on, on the person themselves. Um, the unfortunate thing is, I mean, all, all you'll see is, you'll just see these, these bones littered across the landscape with broken pieces of pottery and-

Joe Rogan 2:59 That was also disturbing, how much bones you see everywhere. So this is, uh-

Raul Bilecky 3:04 Oh, that's-

Joe Rogan 3:04 Look, you see a bone right there. These are all human bones that you just find scattered.

Raul Bilecky 3:09 That's all cotton, and what we're about to see here is an actual mummy that's been torn apart.

Joe Rogan 3:17 This is... It's so sad that there's no protection.

Raul Bilecky 3:22 Nobody's going out there, man. Nobody, except for the looters.

Joe Rogan 3:26 But I know very little about Peru, other than, you know, obviously the Nazca Lines, the mummies, all these different things, the, the mystery of the place. Keep, keep showing that, please.

Speaker 3:36 Uh, the video is over.

Joe Rogan 3:37 Oh, it's over? Um, but-

Raul Bilecky 3:39 There, there's a, there's a couple burial-

Speaker 3:41 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 3:41 ... burial drone shots, too.

Joe Rogan 3:43 But it's just-

Raul Bilecky 3:45 You go to the top.

Joe Rogan 3:46 How big is Peru? I don't even know geographically how large it is.

Raul Bilecky 3:50 I mean, Peru, Peru, Peru is huge. I mean, it takes up... This is another-- This is a d- a different looted site. So this is all, this, all of this is in the Paracas Nazca Ica region.

Joe Rogan 4:03 And these-

Raul Bilecky 4:03 So this is in-

Joe Rogan 4:04 ... skulls are just sitting there?

Raul Bilecky 4:05 So the looters will oftentimes leave, I don't know, set them up in this fashion. Uh, there, there isn't a site I've gone to where I haven't seen something like, set up like this in, in the end. But, so I, I, I pull out to show the scale of it. I mean, every little piece of white you see is, is some part of a human.

Joe Rogan 4:28 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 4:31 It's tragic, man.

Joe Rogan 4:33 [exhales] Just so much history lost.

Raul Bilecky 4:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 4:37 And so does this stuff wind up in private collections? Is... Do museums ever get it? Like, what, what happens to that stuff?

Raul Bilecky 4:46 I, I don't think museums get it at all. It's private, private buyers. I actually met a... Well, the term is waquero. It's a grave robber. I actually met one in Miraflores, in, in Lima proper, at one of the artesanalas, where they're selling, you know, a- ancient goods. Well, some of them have real things that they, they go out, and they loot, and... I mean, that-- This is one of the things I've been thinking about, like, for, for the future. Like, what, what can be done about this? Because the government... Nobody from the government's going out there, and so these things end up in private collections, textiles, humans, uh, pottery, things that you would see in museums. It's just nobody from that official administration is taking the trip to go out there and preserve these things, and-

Joe Rogan 5:35 It seems like just the ancient civilization of Peru is a massive mystery.

Raul Bilecky 5:40 It's-

Joe Rogan 5:40 It seems like there are a lot of uncovered stories in that area, and-

Raul Bilecky 5:46 Peru is a hotspot

Joe Rogan 5:47 ... and it doesn't seem like there's an incredible amount of research being done, other than by independent people.

Raul Bilecky 5:54 They, I mean, so... Joe, there, there's just so much in Peru. I mean, you throw a stone, and you're finding an ancient archaeological site. Uh, I mean, they're, they're doing-- Whenever they do construction, they end up coming across structures or bones.... I mean, I, this last expedition, I, I went all over the country, and there is no lack of archaeological sites. So the, the money and, I just- uh, the money it would take to fund research on all these places is just extreme. It, it's extreme. Um, I think there's a lot of history that, that goes missed, uh, because, because of what's currently happening, but a lot of times, a lot of the research is focused on what's going to bring tourism.

Joe Rogan 6:38 Right, like Machu Picchu, things along those line, which is also insane.

Raul Bilecky 6:42 Like, phenomenal.

Joe Rogan 6:43 Just incredible. Like, that place is like, what? Why? How?

Raul Bilecky 6:48 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 6:48 Why'd you build it up here? [chuckles] Fucking nuts. A, a good friend of mine just actually went, just recently took his family-

Raul Bilecky 6:54 Yeah

Joe Rogan 6:54 ... up to Machu Picchu, and he's like, "It doesn't even make any sense, man."

Raul Bilecky 6:58 Dude, Machu Picchu is what started, uh... So my family's from Peru, and so I would grow up going there, and, and I have this old- back when you were filming with cameras with, like, a, a videotape, um, there's footage of me finding seashells at Machu Picchu when I was like-

Joe Rogan 7:13 What?

Raul Bilecky 7:13 ... when I was, like, 10 years old. Back then, you, you could go wherever you wanted. You didn't have to stay on a path, and so, I, I don't know, I was 10-

Joe Rogan 7:19 And for people that don't know, Machu Picchu's, like, what, 12,000 feet above sea level?

Raul Bilecky 7:24 12,000 feet, yeah, yeah. And so, and so I'm, I'm a kid, and, I mean, I still have the footage, the grainy footage, and I'm showing my dad on the cam. I'm like, "Dad, Dad, look, I found seashells." You know, I saw them in, in, inside a, uh, they were, like, glinting in the mud in the wall, and so I, I took them out, and that's what started this whole process for me. I was just like, that... It blew my mind that there were seashells way up there, and, uh, so I studied about earth cataclysms and ancient history, and, and when sea levels were different, and that just, that's- that is a moment that started kind of this whole path for me. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 7:55 How old were you at the time?

Raul Bilecky 7:56 10 or 12.

Joe Rogan 7:57 Wow.

Raul Bilecky 7:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:00 Wow. Um, so how many times have you been there since?

Raul Bilecky 8:03 Well, growing up, we used to go every year and a half or so, and that's continued into my adulthood. It's only been recently, the past two years, that I've been doing what I'm, what I've been doing, which is, like, hardcore [chuckles] solo, uh, expeditions.

Joe Rogan 8:16 And so when you look at a site like Machu Picchu or, you know, any of these ancient sites, what, what is the timeline that conventional archaeologists attribute?

Raul Bilecky 8:30 I mean, they, they attribute it to the Inca, which, you know, 14, late 1400s, early 1500s. I think the Inca were conquered in, by the Spanish in 15, uh, 1530, I think, and so mo- most of that megalithic architecture, they attribute to the Inca. However, there's evidence that... There's a site, uh, Jamie, if you could pull it up, it's called Viñaque. This, this place is-- There's megalithic architecture with precision that goes down 50 feet under, under this mountain. It's, it... Check this out.

Joe Rogan 9:11 Whoa! Whoa.

Speaker 9:13 It's buried so deeply underneath.

Joe Rogan 9:18 [chuckles] This is crazy.

Raul Bilecky 9:22 So I believe they filled in the top to, uh, in modern times, but the-

Speaker 9:26 There's mortar at the top.

Raul Bilecky 9:28 And very soon, there's gonna be a guy who shows us a map.

Speaker 9:34 It's incredible.

Joe Rogan 9:34 Wow. And so you see very different construction-

Raul Bilecky 9:42 Very different construction

Joe Rogan 9:44 ... styles from the bottom to the top, but that's how it always is, right? The most complex stuff-

Raul Bilecky 9:50 So that's, that's showing that this architecture here, it goes down 50 feet into this mountain.

Joe Rogan 9:58 Mm. And what do they think this was?

Raul Bilecky 10:02 So this complex is all attributed to the Wari. It's attributed to the culture that came right before the Inca, which doesn't make much sense to me because what you see on the surface, that's Wari construction. They-

Joe Rogan 10:15 Which is small stones.

Raul Bilecky 10:17 Right. And-

Joe Rogan 10:18 What are, what are they held together with?

Raul Bilecky 10:20 Uh, mud mortar. Mud as mortar, and, uh... But then, so this site [chuckles] has only been 4% excavated. 4%. It's underneath all of it is that type of architecture, which is crazy. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 10:37 So you have mud and mortar with very small stones, and then underneath it, you have precision-cut megali- megalithic stones?

Raul Bilecky 10:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:46 And how big are these stones, and where are they supposedly coming from?

Speaker 10:48 ...

Raul Bilecky 10:50 Uh, that, so h- here's a funny story. Um, so this place, if you look, you can, you can find it on, on Google Maps. It's, uh, you know, they call it the El Complejo de Wari, so the Wari complex. But if you go back to the Spanish chronicles, um, Pedro Cieza de León, when he was in Tiwanaku, so Tiwanaku, where Puma Punku is in Bolivia, when they asked the natives, you know, "Who built this?" They said, "We don't know. It was built before us from the people from the lake," the same people who built Viñaque. That's what the natives said. That place, Viñaque, is 800, 1,000 kilometers from Tiwanaku, so, so... And it's the same construction, so would- it makes sense, kind of what they're saying. The people who built Tiwanaku also built this place. But before they know-- before they knew that, uh... They didn't witness it. It was just there when they got there-

Joe Rogan 11:45 Right

Raul Bilecky 11:45 ... is what the locals said.

Joe Rogan 11:46 Well, that's a lot of stuff, right? That's part of the weirdness of South America.

Raul Bilecky 11:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:53 And, you know, even Mexico, right?

Raul Bilecky 11:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:56 It's, that's the, the weirdness of the Ax- Aztec structures. I didn't know that until pretty recently, that the Aztecs labeled, like, uh, Tenochtitlan, "The place where the gods were born."

Raul Bilecky 12:09 I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 12:10 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 12:11 I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 12:11 Like, they, they don't attribute that to themselves.

Raul Bilecky 12:15 To themselves.

Joe Rogan 12:15 They, they found it.... when we cleared the area-

Raul Bilecky 12:19 I mean, you think about it, I, I've-- still to this day, you know, I, um, I was up in Lake Titicaca, and, I mean, there's structures all over the place, but you're like, "Where were these people living?" And y- 'cause there's no remnants of cities or towns, and the reason is, is because in modern times, people have recommissioned the blocks and started, and used them for their farms and their homes, and things like that. You have a good location, uh, a place of reverence, a place-- You're gonna build the next, the next culture is going to build on it, you know? And I think that's happened a lot, in a lot of places.

Joe Rogan 12:52 Yeah. Well, everywhere, right? I mean, that's Lebanon, too. That's Baalbek. It's, it seems to be the case that those-

Raul Bilecky 12:59 Yeah

Joe Rogan 12:59 ... those immense stones where the Romans built on top of them.

Raul Bilecky 13:03 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:03 But there's-- The Roman documentation i- is pretty precise. They documented everything, but n- never talked about these enormous 1,000-tonne stones that are seven meters up in the air.

Raul Bilecky 13:14 And we're just gonna put them in the base of our structure here. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 13:16 Yeah, like, what?

Raul Bilecky 13:17 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 13:17 They didn't even talk about them.

Raul Bilecky 13:19 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 13:19 They talked about the, the, these beautiful structures that are on top of that, are clearly Roman.

Raul Bilecky 13:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:25 But the stuff underneath it p- just, just defies logic.

Raul Bilecky 13:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:28 And some of the stones that were never moved and put into place, that were cut and quarried-

Raul Bilecky 13:34 Yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 13:34 ... but just never moved. Sixteen hundred tonnes? Like, how?

Raul Bilecky 13:40 And things you can't replicate, you know, nowadays. I- it's-

Joe Rogan 13:44 That's what's crazy. It's like, with modern machinery, we can't do it.

Raul Bilecky 13:49 Yeah. I mean, it's... [inhales] I've alway- uh, when I started this path, you know, I was... You know, Fingerprints of the Gods was one of the first books I picked up-

Joe Rogan 13:59 Me, too

Raul Bilecky 13:59 ... as a kid.

Joe Rogan 13:59 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 13:59 My dad had it in his library, and, uh, and, and, and that just, that set me off on a, on a course. And, uh, [inhales] the, the inability to be able to, to... I, I, I don't know. I don't, I don't buy the mainstream. Uh, i- i- it's-- it feels a little, little bit lazy, the, the responses [chuckles] that, that the mainstream kind of gives to some of this stuff, um, as opposed to just saying, "I don't know."

Joe Rogan 14:30 It's purposely ignorant. It's more than lazy-

Raul Bilecky 14:33 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 14:33 ... because i- if it was just lazy, the... I mean, they've been confronted by all this other alternative archaeology evidence, and all these other people that have, like, explored these things and shown... And then there was always the conventional wisdom that there was no society back then that was capable of doing this, so they had to attribute it to more recent societies.

Raul Bilecky 14:53 Until Gobekli Tepe. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 14:55 Yeah. And then you're like, "Okay, you guys need to shut the fuck up." [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 14:59 It's, uh, I mean, the, the, the... There's a power in admitting, like, you're-- if we're looking for the truth here, then it's like, "Okay, we got this evidence that disrupts this, that we thought before." All right, just say that.

Joe Rogan 15:11 Right.

Raul Bilecky 15:11 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 15:12 They can't.

Raul Bilecky 15:12 Just say it. It, it, it-

Joe Rogan 15:13 It's fascinating that they can't-

Raul Bilecky 15:15 [chuckles] It's-

Joe Rogan 15:15 ... you know, because they are like every other form of academia. They're, they are just like... I mean, it- you might as well be talking to a gender studies teacher.

Raul Bilecky 15:24 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 15:25 Just like, they don't want to look at reality. They just, they just want their narrative, and they want to be the gatekeepers of information, and then they just want to push that narrative forward. And they're so mean.

Raul Bilecky 15:37 Dude, it... I only started recently, uh, being on X within the past year, and I'm j- just, like, the cattiness of it all, man, is, uh-

Joe Rogan 15:46 Well, it just exposes-

Raul Bilecky 15:47 The back and forth

Joe Rogan 15:47 ... them. It exposes their personality, and they're just not the type of people that I want to talk to about anything.

Raul Bilecky 15:53 Yeah. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 15:54 Especially not... You're not the gatepe- if you're a 41-year-old person, you're not the gatekeeper of ancient history. You can't be. There's too much.

Raul Bilecky 16:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:02 There's too much all over the world. It doesn't make sense. None of it makes sense, and that's, I think, why they're so terrified of people like Filippo Biondi and the, the-

Raul Bilecky 16:13 And the scans

Joe Rogan 16:14 ... scans underneath the pyramids.

Raul Bilecky 16:15 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:15 Because if he's right, and it appears he is, over 200 different independent scans.

Raul Bilecky 16:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:20 And they all say the exact same thing. If he's right, you guys are fucked because you have to- you're gonna eventually have to say, "We're wrong."

Raul Bilecky 16:29 And it's, it's, y- you, you, you have a, a moment here where you can choose-

Joe Rogan 16:33 Right

Raul Bilecky 16:33 ... which, which direction to go, and pretty soon, that moment's gonna be lost.

Joe Rogan 16:36 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 16:37 Uh, but it, it's like, th- this is what the evidence has presented, and like you said, it's verified in over 200 different studies. It's like, "All right, we might be wrong. Let's-

Joe Rogan 16:46 Right.

Raul Bilecky 16:47 "Well, let's see." [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 16:48 Meanwhile, they don't wanna do that.

Raul Bilecky 16:49 They don't wanna do that. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 16:50 They're still digging their heels in, and they're just discrediting themselves, which is fascinating. It's really interesting. It's really interesting to watch these assholes just, like, flounder.

Raul Bilecky 17:00 Well, and, and it, it makes me think, you know, w- what's the reason behind it? Is it pride? Is it ego? It's be- is it because you wrote some books, uh, on it, that you need to keep selling? Is it because it's in textbooks that universities use? I mean, it- there, there-

Joe Rogan 17:13 It's all the above

Raul Bilecky 17:14 ... there's a lot of layers to it.

Joe Rogan 17:15 It's all the above, but you can tell just by the way they communicate online, a lot of it is ego.

Raul Bilecky 17:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:21 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 17:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:21 A lot of it is ego and just really bad personalities. You know, these people that are accustomed to never being questioned, accustomed to being in the hierarchy of academia, where, you know, you have these tenured professors, and then they have the people that are coming up under them, and they all follow the same sort of-

Raul Bilecky 17:39 Yeah

Joe Rogan 17:40 ... rigid structure. And so any heterodox thinkers, anybody who comes in from outside the box, they just get shit all over.

Raul Bilecky 17:47 Yeah, they... And there's no open-mindedness. I know, uh, I don't know if this is, like, a parable or something, but, uh, you know, I don't know, some story where there's, there's a truck going into a tunnel, and it gets stuck, and it's backing up traffic, and nobody can get through. Everybody's trying to figure out what the hell, how to get this truck through, and just, you know, some, some farmer walks up, and he's just like, "Take the air out the tires," and, and problem solved. And so the inability to let other people come in with, with thoughts and opinions, it just, it really, um... I think it's, it's a real detriment to, to, to the study of these things because-

Joe Rogan 18:25 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 18:26 ... i- i- in my approach to s- some of the places I've gone, I, I think it is that, yes, we have research, yes, th- there is a level of understanding at, a lot of these places, what happened, but it's also that going into it with a, with a fresh set of eyes. You know-

Joe Rogan 18:42 Mm-hmm

Raul Bilecky 18:42 ... sometimes, I mean, I get so locked in my work, sometimes I can't see outside of it. You know, sometimes it takes another party to come in, and, and all of a sudden, your mind is blown in a com- completely different direction.

Joe Rogan 18:53 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 18:53 I don't see that level of openness to things on the side of a lot of, a lot of the mainstream academia when it comes to this stuff.

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Joe Rogan 20:27 Well, people have to really understand that the whole concept of mainstream academia is only a few hundred years old, and that's what's weird. It's like-

Raul Bilecky 20:36 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 20:36 ... so these very recent structures, these very recent establishments, want to be the gatekeepers of information of a vast swath of the world.

Raul Bilecky 20:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:48 I mean, the, it's not possible-

Raul Bilecky 20:50 Yeah, I would- [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 20:51 ... It's not possible that you know everything.

Raul Bilecky 20:53 It's, it's not. I was thinking about that.

Joe Rogan 20:55 It's just not. They know a lot. They know a lot about things they have discovered. They do. They know a lot about Mesopotamia. They know a lot about Iraq, all the, the, the, and amazing stuff that they find. Some stuff, they, they've very accurately dated, but it doesn't, it doesn't ex- explain things that you can't explain, and they want to try to-

Raul Bilecky 21:16 Just fit it into the-

Joe Rogan 21:18 Yeah!

Raul Bilecky 21:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:18 That's what's goofy.

Raul Bilecky 21:19 Yeah, that's... I mean, look, if the puzzle piece doesn't fit, stop trying to force it.

Joe Rogan 21:22 Well-

Raul Bilecky 21:22 Yeah

Joe Rogan 21:22 ... it's also, it's, like, more gigantic, spectacular pieces, and you're like-

Raul Bilecky 21:27 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 21:27 ... "Well, those aren't important."

Raul Bilecky 21:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:29 I mean, um, Ben van Kerkwijk, with the, this most recent discoveries, where they're using the ground-penetrating radar to find the labyrinths and this 40-meter-long metallic object-

Raul Bilecky 21:41 Yeah

Joe Rogan 21:41 ... that's inside of an atrium down there. Like, what is that thing?

Raul Bilecky 21:45 Yeah, I, I have a, uh... I hope it's something, uh, my, my... If, if whatever, if they go looking, and I hope they do-- And this is the other thing, it's like, let's, let's start putting money to-

Joe Rogan 21:55 Right

Raul Bilecky 21:55 ... towards this, like, now. You know what I mean? [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 21:57 Right.

Raul Bilecky 21:58 Like, figure this out. Um, I don't know why I thought this. I, I think it might be a meteorite. If, if it's some sort of-

Joe Rogan 22:04 Ooh

Raul Bilecky 22:05 ... like, m- m- metallic thing.

Joe Rogan 22:07 Forty-meter long meteorite.

Raul Bilecky 22:08 I know, I know.

Joe Rogan 22:09 That, that's a fucking civilization ender.

Raul Bilecky 22:11 But then imagine the next civilization coming across that thing-

Joe Rogan 22:15 Right

Raul Bilecky 22:15 ... and hearing the stories.

Joe Rogan 22:17 Right.

Raul Bilecky 22:17 It's like-

Joe Rogan 22:17 Right

Raul Bilecky 22:18 ... "Oh, shit, let's worship this," or like, "Let's revere it somehow-

Joe Rogan 22:21 Mm-hmm

Raul Bilecky 22:21 ... and put it in an atrium."

Joe Rogan 22:22 Well, like Mecca.

Raul Bilecky 22:23 That's just my thought. Yeah, ex- exactly.

Joe Rogan 22:25 Right?

Raul Bilecky 22:25 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 22:26 Like, there's this meteorite-

Raul Bilecky 22:26 Just this one's 40 meters. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 22:28 Yeah, there's a meteorite at Mecca-

Raul Bilecky 22:29 Yeah

Joe Rogan 22:29 ... that they all go to touch.

Raul Bilecky 22:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:31 Which is kind of crazy, right?

Raul Bilecky 22:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:33 But completely makes sense, right?

Raul Bilecky 22:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:35 Something comes from the sky, it lands, pow! [mouth explodes] Causes chaos, and then you worship it.

Raul Bilecky 22:41 I mean, that, uh... Also, wasn't one of, like, King, King Tut's knives was made out-

Joe Rogan 22:45 Yes

Raul Bilecky 22:45 ... out of a meteorite or something like that?

Joe Rogan 22:47 Yeah, yeah.

Raul Bilecky 22:47 I mean, so they were finding these things.

Joe Rogan 22:49 Mm-hmm.

Raul Bilecky 22:49 Yeah. Forty-meter one is pretty big, though. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 22:51 I know, it, it, but also Tic Tac shaped.

Raul Bilecky 22:54 That's the, uh, that's the other thing. I'm like... So, uh, when it come- I'm just like, "Let's, let's go. Let's go." Uh... [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 23:00 Well, you know, that's part of the Bob Lazar lore.

Raul Bilecky 23:03 I, I remember.

Joe Rogan 23:04 Bob Lazar-

Raul Bilecky 23:05 Yeah

Joe Rogan 23:05 ... said that when he was told that at least one of these things came from an archaeological dig-

Raul Bilecky 23:11 Yeah

Joe Rogan 23:11 ... like, what?

Raul Bilecky 23:12 Man. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 23:13 What, what, what does he, what do you mean? He's like, "That's what they were telling me. I don't know, but they told me that one of them was from an archaeological dig," so these things are really old.

Raul Bilecky 23:22 Dude, and, and his accuracy with some of, with the Element 118-

Joe Rogan 23:26 One fifteen

Raul Bilecky 23:26 ... 115-

Joe Rogan 23:26 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 23:27 ... something like that.

Joe Rogan 23:27 From 1989-

Raul Bilecky 23:29 Yeah

Joe Rogan 23:29 ... when Element 115 wasn't even discovered until the 2000s.

Raul Bilecky 23:34 I mean, that's why when, when he s- I, I forget who I was, I was talking to outside, but we were talking about... I think it was talking to Jamie about that, about, uh, Bob Z- Bob Lazar talking about some of these things coming from an arch- archaeological site.

Joe Rogan 23:48 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 23:50 Let's go find it.

Joe Rogan 23:51 Right.

Raul Bilecky 23:51 You know what I mean? [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 23:52 Well, that's where it gets really weird. Where it gets really weird is these mummies.

Raul Bilecky 23:57 Oh, [chuckles] we're gonna go into the mummies again?

Joe Rogan 23:59 What do you got there, Jamie?

Speaker 23:59 [clears throat] Uh, Eric Burlison, a representative, talking about how he's asked the White House to give DoD the power to let them go see this stuff, including that bur- a buried UFO.

Raul Bilecky 24:13 ... Reportedly, an object that is not in this country, that is so large it cannot be moved, uh, that they've built an entire building around it. And I think that, I think, uh, either Greer or another individual has actually mentioned this site, but I'm not gonna mention it because it is a classified location. But there is a, a l- a really apparent... There's reported a really large-

24:36 ... object, and, and that's one of the locations that I've- I'm requesting to, to get to. It's gonna involve a lot to get to make that happen, but that may be the, uh, final destination.

Joe Rogan 24:47 Shit like that makes me wanna run for president. [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 24:49 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 24:49 'Cause that's all I would care about. The economy would be in shambles, I'd be like, "Show me the UFOs!" [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 24:54 Yeah. Do you think, do you think they'd do it? 'Cause I- 'cause I've heard that, like, the-

Joe Rogan 24:57 No, they'd kill me.

Raul Bilecky 24:58 Uh, I mean, it- on, on, on that need-to-know basis, where they're keeping-

Joe Rogan 25:02 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 25:02 ... stuff from presidents, you know?

Joe Rogan 25:04 Right.

Raul Bilecky 25:04 Kennedy got too close, like [laughing] ...

Joe Rogan 25:06 I don't think that's what they killed Kennedy for, but I think there's a bunch of things, but-

Raul Bilecky 25:09 They, they... I know, there, there's a whole lot of layers to that.

Joe Rogan 25:13 Yeah, but the, the UFO people love to think that it's UFOs is why they killed Kennedy, but they think everything's UFOs. But it, it's, it, it definitely seems like... [sighs] I don't know about the evidence, you know, because it's just stories, and that's the problem, is that a lot of this stuff, and this is how I feel when a lot of people come on the podcast and talk to me, you know, supposed whistleblowers. Some of them I think are legitimate, and some of them I think are disinformation specialists. I think they're designed to muddy up the water, and this is the, the... what, you know, what they're saying is designed to muddy up the water, and that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to make a lot of this stuff look silly and, and push certain narratives and just create confusion. And I think a lot of it is probably some black budget, weird science stuff that we have. But then it begs the question, where'd you get that?

Raul Bilecky 26:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:07 I mean, is, is that really like the Diana Pasulka work, where she's talking about there... essentially these things are donations, and that we're supposed to, like, take these things-

Raul Bilecky 26:18 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 26:18 ... and try to figure it out? And then you look at some of the creation of some different inventions that happened very quickly-

Raul Bilecky 26:25 Dude

Joe Rogan 26:25 ... after Roswell. I mean-

Raul Bilecky 26:27 Yeah, our, our, our civilization just, I mean, just been on a boom ever since.

Joe Rogan 26:33 Yeah, weird stuff.

Raul Bilecky 26:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:34 Like the fiber optic stuff and transistors, the, the just the, the, the history of the cre- creation of the transistor-

Raul Bilecky 26:41 Yeah

Joe Rogan 26:41 ... and the people that were involved in it. Seems awful fucking fishy.

Raul Bilecky 26:46 I, I mean, I, I try to stick with what I... evidence that I can make out tangibly, and it just gets so murky. Like, like you said, it just, it just, all of this gets so murky that I, I don't, I don't know how the truth would even land, you know?

Joe Rogan 27:05 Well, the truth would have to land if there was an overall comprehensive effort by all of the world governments, and there would have to be some sort of unity in this and some, some sort of, like, an, a, a recognition that this is really important for the entire human population to understand our past.

Raul Bilecky 27:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:26 And if this is nonsense, let's find out that it's nonsense.

Raul Bilecky 27:29 Yeah, let's figure it out.

Joe Rogan 27:29 And if this is real, this changes everything.

Raul Bilecky 27:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:33 And when you look at... just, just look at the vastness of the cosmos, it's not outside of the realm of possibility that this stuff either came from somewhere else or was here because they were here.

Raul Bilecky 27:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:46 That there was an advanced civilization here, whether it's our civilization or whatever the hell those mummies are. You know?

Raul Bilecky 27:53 Uh, yeah. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 27:53 'Cause the mum- the tridactyl mummies are weird.

Raul Bilecky 27:56 We could, we could...

Joe Rogan 27:58 That stuff's weird.

Raul Bilecky 27:58 We, we can talk about that, 'cause I went, uh... I, I, I did a deep dive with my friend Will, and from... There, there is, there is too much amok going on with these things for me to, for me, uh, to objectively say, uh, that they are what people are claiming them to be. There, there's just, there's too much wrong with this pi- with the picture.

Joe Rogan 28:20 Right. Well, first of all, a lot of them are fake.

Raul Bilecky 28:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:24 For sure.

Raul Bilecky 28:24 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:25 A lot of them, people have seemingly created with a bunch of different animal bones-

Raul Bilecky 28:30 And human bones

Joe Rogan 28:30 ... and pieced them, and human bones, and pieced them together. But then there's the weird ones. You know, there's the weird ones that are mummified, and they're in the fetal position, and you see a structure that doesn't exist in the human body, but it's complete with tendons and ligaments, and some of them have eggs inside of them.

Raul Bilecky 28:48 Well, that... Joe, I'm telling you, man, I... Look, I want to believe. I, I-

Joe Rogan 28:53 Do you think it's bullshit?

Raul Bilecky 28:55 I think it is much closer to bullshit than it is to reality.

Joe Rogan 28:58 All of them?

Raul Bilecky 29:00 I think what we're dealing with here are real human beings from the past, they are ancient, uh, that have been put together. Wi- Will, from Incredible History, has done some amazing work with some amazing specialists. I mean, people at the top of their field on this stuff, looking at the X-rays and the DICOM files and calling out, um, calling out cuts, calling out incisions that were made, calling out why things don't make sense.

Joe Rogan 29:27 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 29:27 And for me, the reason I put out my last video on the Nazca mummies is because there's this [chuckles] whole other narrative, too, of where the money is, who's making money off of these things. And, and I think that-

Joe Rogan 29:40 Is there money being made off those-

Raul Bilecky 29:41 Oh

Joe Rogan 29:41 ... little mummies?

Raul Bilecky 29:42 Oh. [chuckles] I was gonna-

Joe Rogan 29:44 Please.

Raul Bilecky 29:45 Yeah, let, let me-

Joe Rogan 29:46 You got something?

Raul Bilecky 29:46 Yeah. [laughing] So I remember you... Uh, I forget who you were talking to. It might have been, uh, Jesse Michaels, but I remember you saying, "You know, if the... These are one of the greatest art projects, if they were fake."

Joe Rogan 30:03 Right.

Raul Bilecky 30:04 Well, if you just scroll to the right here, this is what the-

Joe Rogan 30:07 That's the goofy one.

Raul Bilecky 30:08 Yeah, but that's what the Guacero is selling. He sent that to me personally-

Joe Rogan 30:12 Mm

Raul Bilecky 30:12 ... the, the guy selling these things, these goofy-ass-

Joe Rogan 30:15 So this is-

Raul Bilecky 30:15 Yeah [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 30:15 ... for people-

Speaker 30:16 You can't see it.

Joe Rogan 30:16 ... at home. You can't see it?

Speaker 30:17 No.

Raul Bilecky 30:17 There, there's a folder on there that has the pictures, uh, in the-

Joe Rogan 30:21 These are the goofy ones

Raul Bilecky 30:22 ... in the photos.

Joe Rogan 30:22 But what is the one that is, uh, the, the female that's in the-

Raul Bilecky 30:26 Maria.

Joe Rogan 30:27 Is that what they're called?

Raul Bilecky 30:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:28 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 30:28 Uh, Maria is one of them. I mean, so Will had on, um, Dr. William Morrison and, uh, Dr. Proctor, Dr. Wilson. I mean, like, people in the, in the, in the top of their, um-... in the top of their field analyzing these things, and [chuckles] this is-

Joe Rogan 30:45 This one looks fake as fuck.

Raul Bilecky 30:47 Yeah, yeah, everybody, you can get this for $15,000. This has come-- this comes directly from the Guaquero finding these things-

Joe Rogan 30:52 [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 30:53 ... by the way.

Joe Rogan 30:54 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 30:54 I, I, I did, like, a little undercover thing, uh, trying to see what I could lure out of him. Um-

Joe Rogan 31:02 See, this is not particularly compelling to me. Um, but the-

Raul Bilecky 31:06 But it's in the same, it's in the same class, coming from the same place, supposedly the same group of people are providing these things to the, um... Yeah, th- this is in, this is in the EKA Museum.

Joe Rogan 31:17 What is it-

Raul Bilecky 31:18 This is where they're housed

Joe Rogan 31:18 ... Montserrat? Is that what the-

Raul Bilecky 31:20 Montserrat, yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:20 Montserrat. So these are, like, again, these are not that compelling to me.

Raul Bilecky 31:26 The small ones, no. The big one-- So the big ones, though, are, um... Gosh, they ha- they, they keep coming out with new specimens. There's a new one, Antonio, who's a teenage boy, except for his feet. His feet are-

Joe Rogan 31:39 His-

Raul Bilecky 31:39 ... ha- have arthritis in them, and, and which indicates that they put the f- foot bones of another specimen-

Joe Rogan 31:47 Mm

Raul Bilecky 31:48 ... on, on this thing. Now, what, what these doctors have done- Look, a- and here's the thing. I mean, I want to, I want to be clear. I would love nothing more than-

Joe Rogan 31:56 Of course

Raul Bilecky 31:57 ... Peru to be the hotspot of, of, of some new species. I, I don't think we're alone. I don't think we've identified every species, but also, I'm not... I'm not putting my money on these things coming out as, uh, authentic. I think they have been used with authentic bones, which is why they're getting the dates. Um, I think that [chuckles] dude, I, I, I did a deep dive on this. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 32:23 Please, go. No, feel free.

Raul Bilecky 32:25 Um-

Joe Rogan 32:25 Tell me, tell me what you found out.

Raul Bilecky 32:26 I initially wasn't gonna make the video I did, but after spending days staying up doing this research, I just, I, I, I, I couldn't not do it. Um, and I found, like, like, I even watched the whole Gaia series on this stuff, and, and I found myself, like, getting entranced by the, like, "Maybe, maybe..." And then-

Joe Rogan 32:45 Right

Raul Bilecky 32:46 ... And then also watching... The whole reason of, of putting this stuff out there is, like, look, make your own decision, but don't just take in the fantasy. Take in the, the other possibilities, too-

Joe Rogan 32:55 Right

Raul Bilecky 32:55 ... and, and just have all the information before you make your decision.

Joe Rogan 32:58 Well, clearly, we know some of them are fake. Clearly, clearly, you know, even people like me who want so desperately to believe.

Raul Bilecky 33:08 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 33:08 And it's also the g- the corresponding artwork from the past, the three-toed, three-fingered artwork, which is weird.

Raul Bilecky 33:16 That is, that is weird, and I saw some of those geo- geoglyphs down there in the middle of nowhere. You know, these... And so, um, and then the whole thing with, you know, the, uh, with James Fox and the, the Brazil incident-

Joe Rogan 33:29 Yeah, Varginha

Raul Bilecky 33:30 ... and that thing.

Joe Rogan 33:31 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 33:31 You know, uh, the, the, the three-fingered thing is a weird thing in history. Um, with these bones, I mean, I, I'm gonna have to point you to some of, some of the videos that, that these specialists have come out analyzing the, the files. So but where, where the money is, is exactly what's happening now. It, it's, it's... We have this possibility. We're gonna make a show about it. We're gonna put out this new thing. We're gonna... It goes, it goes deep, Joe. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 34:07 Okay.

Raul Bilecky 34:07 The, the same doctors, the same specialists that are verifying currently the Nazca mummies, have been on the same team for the past 20 years, verifying other species and specimens that they've... alien hybrids and say- the same pe- literally, I- my whole video, I'm just like-

Joe Rogan 34:26 Mm-hmm

Raul Bilecky 34:27 ... this is what he said in twenty- 2007. This is what he said about this fake thing in 2012.

Joe Rogan 34:32 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 34:32 This is what he said about the fake thing in 2017.

Joe Rogan 34:35 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 34:35 And I put it back to back, so you- it's the same fucking narrative.

Joe Rogan 34:38 Same people.

Raul Bilecky 34:39 It's the same people, the same narrative.

Joe Rogan 34:41 And so you think that the construction has just gotten more sophisticated?

Raul Bilecky 34:45 100%, 100%. They learn.

Joe Rogan 34:48 What is that, the, the major one?

Raul Bilecky 34:50 Maria and, and, uh, Montserrat.

Joe Rogan 34:53 Well, look at- let's find Montserrat and see, see the Jesse Michel stuff, 'cause he went down there and looked at them, and they did scans on the bodies and...

Raul Bilecky 35:03 And then they, if, uh... I have, I have a link to, uh, I think it's Dr. Morrison talking about Montserrat's feet, the, the X-rays of, of his feet-

Joe Rogan 35:12 Mm

Raul Bilecky 35:12 ... and, uh, pointing out. That's, that's on the spreadsheet.

Joe Rogan 35:15 Well, let's see that. I'd like to see that. So do you think that these are recent creations of old bones? Is that what it is?

Raul Bilecky 35:24 That's what I think.

Joe Rogan 35:25 Okay, and how do you think they did it? Is there any speculation?

Raul Bilecky 35:29 I think that... So there are-

Joe Rogan 35:32 So here's the-

Speaker 35:33 I cut him off.

Joe Rogan 35:35 What's that, Jimmy?

Speaker 35:36 I just asked him a question, and I cut him off.

Joe Rogan 35:37 Oh.

Speaker 35:38 "How did you think they did it?"

Joe Rogan 35:39 How do you think they did it?

Raul Bilecky 35:41 Well, I think that they, uh, I think they've gotten very good with, uh, taxidermy.

Joe Rogan 35:47 Hmm. Right, like, 'cause we've seen that before, where you take, like, an owl, and you attach it to an iguana, like-

Raul Bilecky 35:53 In fact, in, in the research I did, there was this, dude, there was this demon fairy thing in 2017, uh-

Joe Rogan 36:02 [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 36:02 If, if you wanna pull up my, my videos. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 36:04 Let's start with this.

Speaker 36:05 Yeah. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 36:05 Let's start with this.

Raul Bilecky 36:06 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 36:06 We'll get to the demon fairy thing soon.

Speaker 36:07 Yeah. Talk about that.

Raul Bilecky 36:08 This shit is wild. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 36:09 So metatar-

Speaker 36:11 Let's look.

Joe Rogan 36:11 Okay.

Speaker 36:11 Um, this is a, from a surface scan that was available, and I went in and just kind of removed some of the fuzziness so that I could highlight the bones. And one of the things, again, that you notice is that the joints have a lot of spacing between them. These are not joints that are in contact, so they're dislocated. Um, now, the main, the main part here, uh, this, the central area where the cuneiforms are and the cuboid, those articulate with five metatarsals normally. Um, the way the, the way these are lettered, A would go with the big toe, and E would go with the little toe. And, uh, again, just like in Maria, those are missing, but the joints are not lined up properly. Um, the, the shapes of the joints don't, don't go with-

Raul Bilecky 36:58 ... the, uh, matching, uh, bone on the cuneiforms of the cuboid.

37:01 Um, that's exactly what I was seeing in CT. So none of the articulations of the, at the metatarsal junction really made any sense, and some of the bones didn't even meet an articular surface at all. So that jumped out to me immediately, because then my first, um, question goes to: how would that even be a functional foot? So Montserrat, that's-

Joe Rogan 37:27 So that's... Hmm. Why does Montserrat have tendons? Click on that. Keep it going a little bit.

Raul Bilecky 37:33 Where I thought I saw the raise resection. Um, 'cause people were talking about there still being tendons and stuff intact, and I would agree that some of those metatarsals are, as Dr. Proctor pointed out, in the correct position, but then some are just missing. So if you wanted to elevate the illusion, one of the ways you could do that would be by performing a raise resection, and essentially, that's a function-conserving surgery, where if you've had damage to your metacarpals or your metatarsals, they'll remove that metacarpal or metatarsal and kind of rearrange your fingers or your toes and the remaining metacarpals to keep your limb functioning. So her feet, Montserrat's feet, were just a little bit different, where I think they might have used more, um, complex procedure like that, versus Maria, where her feet just looked more like, um, arts and crafts to my eye.

38:30 So, and that's the... So Maria came up- If these things are, are, are hoaxes-

Joe Rogan 38:37 Mm-hmm.

Raul Bilecky 38:38 There is also, if we're just going with that angle, there's a clear evolution of the work that goes into them behind the scenes.

Joe Rogan 38:47 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 38:47 Like, that one came out after the first one. The first one got called out on a whole bunch of things.

Joe Rogan 38:51 Mm-hmm.

Raul Bilecky 38:51 All of a sudden, the next iteration doesn't have the same issues.

Joe Rogan 38:55 Oh, right. They're correcting.

Raul Bilecky 38:56 Yeah. And so, and that, and that's actually, uh... I forget, there was, there was an archaeologist on X. He said that's very common in, in the world of fake antiquities. Like, they learn. Once they get called out on something-

Joe Rogan 39:09 Right

Raul Bilecky 39:09 ... they'll figure out how to make the pottery better or something like that. You know?

Joe Rogan 39:12 Is there a lot of money in this stuff?

Raul Bilecky 39:14 Yeah. I mean, apparently, uh-

Joe Rogan 39:16 Where's the money coming from? How does it...

Raul Bilecky 39:18 For me, it, it's not even in, in the-- It's not in the sale. Uh, the, the most money coming from this is not in the sale of these things, it's in the shows that come from it.

Joe Rogan 39:28 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 39:28 It, it's in the series, it's in the subscriptions to get to the next season, where they're going to tell, finally reveal the truth about it. There's a lot of be- money being made in the background with... And, and that's part of the deep dive I went on, like, following the money.

Joe Rogan 39:42 So who do you think is making them? Do you have a theory?

Raul Bilecky 39:46 Uh, I believe that, uh... There's actually, uh-- It was in, it was in my video and one of Will's videos, there was a, a grave robber, a whistleblower, grave ro- robber, who was part of this team, and he shares how, um, he was getting stuff for Mario, like, the main guy. I... There's gotta be a team of specialists working on this stuff. And, I mean, money went into, money went into making these things, 'cause money's gonna come from it. I mean, that's-

Joe Rogan 40:17 Seems like a lot of money, though.

Raul Bilecky 40:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:21 But what... You, you would think that that would kind of fall apart. I would. I would think that-

Raul Bilecky 40:27 It, it is falling apart.

Joe Rogan 40:28 But it is under scams. But I wo- I, I would say, like, someone would rat somebody out. Like, these are unscrupulous people.

Raul Bilecky 40:35 So that's part of the reason I also decided to make this video, and, and c- a lot of the pushback on this stuff is like, "Oh, you don't, you don't trust, you know, uh, Latin American doctors or anything." It... No, it's, it's, it's not that. It's the- Latin American doctors from Peru and, and journalists from Per- they're afraid to talk about this stuff, because it, things can get violent down there-

Joe Rogan 40:59 Mm

Raul Bilecky 40:59 ... surrounding this topic.

Speaker 41:01 [clears throat] Article from 2012 about a mummy being stolen, and it goes on to talk about, um... There's a m- uh, it said right at the bottom, I just saw it.

Joe Rogan 41:13 The Inca Mafia.

Speaker 41:13 Yeah, there's a mafia.

Joe Rogan 41:15 The Inca Mafia, and in fact, the guy-

Speaker 41:16 The Inca Mafia.

Joe Rogan 41:17 The guy, Mario, who, um-

Speaker 41:19 There you go. "Officials have warned about the existence of a mafia dedicated to the trade, with links throughout Southern America and Europe," and at the time, it was $18 million a year in stolen archaeological artifacts Peru estimated was being taken out of the country.

Joe Rogan 41:32 So this is all going to, like, wealthy people in other countries that wanna have these artifacts in their homes?

Speaker 41:38 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 41:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:38 And so then someone-

Raul Bilecky 41:39 I've seen the text messages with some of the American buyers.

Joe Rogan 41:42 Really?

Raul Bilecky 41:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:43 So these guys are just like, "Come on into my den-

Raul Bilecky 41:46 Uh

Joe Rogan 41:46 ... I'm gonna show you a mummy."

Raul Bilecky 41:47 The, the, what I'm talking about specifically was, um, tapestries and, and it was actually the guy I met in the Artesanalis in Miraflores, and, and he showed me video. He was very open with me. He showed me videos of, uh... Because the buy- the buyers wanna see provenance. The buyers wanna see them pulling the, uh, the artifacts out of the ground. And-

Joe Rogan 42:10 Right, so they just bury them, and then they just-

Raul Bilecky 42:12 Well, no, I mean-

Speaker 42:13 Then there's this store in London that sells the stuff.

Joe Rogan 42:15 Mummy c- crowdfunder leaves archaeologists fuming. So there's a guy in London that's selling this stuff?

Speaker 42:21 The Victor Wynd Museum in London.

Joe Rogan 42:24 Huh.

Speaker 42:24 ... Cabinet dedicated to dead people. [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 42:28 [chuckles]

Speaker 42:28 And they were trying to get a mummy from Peru.

Joe Rogan 42:31 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 42:33 So it's, um-

Joe Rogan 42:34 What do you think is going on with the skulls, the elongated skulls?

Raul Bilecky 42:38 Uh, if you, Jamie, I have a-

Speaker 42:40 I got it.

Raul Bilecky 42:41 Um, I think that... It's one I found.

Joe Rogan 42:47 So here's one. You found that one?

Raul Bilecky 42:49 Oh, yeah. That's one of three I've come across.

Joe Rogan 42:52 ... Now, there, supposedly there's a difference in the way the, the skull, you know, when you're a child, what is it called? Those lines-

Raul Bilecky 42:59 The sa- the sagittal, the sutures. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:01 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 43:02 I found some, uh, without the- I, I, I- every elongated skull that I've, the three I've come across, all had the sagittal, uh, all had that suture. They're-

Joe Rogan 43:12 Like a normal human does.

Raul Bilecky 43:13 Like a normal human.

Joe Rogan 43:14 So these would be from pressing boards on the child's head when they're in development?

Raul Bilecky 43:20 Binding. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:21 Binding, yeah.

Raul Bilecky 43:21 But then the question is, why would you do that?

Joe Rogan 43:23 Right.

Raul Bilecky 43:23 And, uh, I mean, I err, err on the side of, you don't just come up with that. You're trying to imitate something.

Joe Rogan 43:29 Right.

Raul Bilecky 43:30 You know? And so that, that's, um... And then you see it in Egypt, in the hieroglyphs-

Joe Rogan 43:34 Mm-hmm

Raul Bilecky 43:34 ... and stuff. So I, I, I do think, like, there is... You know, there, there's- [exhales] We've, we've labeled things other species with just a bone fragment, you know? I'm like, there, there's, there's deserts of these things, and, and I think that if the right study went to them, you, you might have a separate species if, if you put the money towards studying this stuff, 'cause it, it's all out there, man. It's all out there.

Joe Rogan 44:00 Right, like a separate branch of the human species?

Raul Bilecky 44:03 Possibly, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:04 Right, which makes sense. I mean, they're finding separate branches all the time.

Raul Bilecky 44:08 All the time.

Joe Rogan 44:08 The Denisovans, you know, all the- all these different ones that they've found within the last 20 years.

Raul Bilecky 44:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:15 And there could be something with a larger head, an elongated head.

Raul Bilecky 44:19 Yep, and that's the, um... I, I don't know enough about osteo-whatever to-

Joe Rogan 44:24 Mm-hmm

Raul Bilecky 44:24 ... go in depth about it, but it- I mean, either you had whole cultures just d- doing this, or... There's, there's too many of them for it to have just been kinda some elitist practice, I, I think.

Joe Rogan 44:39 And a bizarre practice at that.

Raul Bilecky 44:40 Very bizarre.

Joe Rogan 44:40 Like, why would you wanna do that to your kid's head-

Raul Bilecky 44:43 Yeah

Joe Rogan 44:43 ... when clearly it's probably not been done to your head, at least the first people. Like, what were you trying to imitate?

Raul Bilecky 44:49 There... [exhales] I forget who told me this. Uh, there is some... I think Will told me this. There's, there's some woman who, who did this practice on herself, like, actually trepanated her own head-

Joe Rogan 45:04 Ugh

Raul Bilecky 45:05 ... to, um-

Speaker 45:05 Yeah, we talked about that.

Raul Bilecky 45:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:07 Well, we've talked about trepanation when we had that woman on-

Speaker 45:10 Yeah, that's what he's talking about

Joe Rogan 45:11 ... who did it to herself.

Raul Bilecky 45:12 Okay, well-

Joe Rogan 45:13 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 45:13 Wait, so you had her on?

Joe Rogan 45:15 Yeah, well-

Speaker 45:15 Oh

Joe Rogan 45:15 ... a woman who did- What was her name again?

Speaker 45:17 Um.

Joe Rogan 45:17 The psychedelic lady.

Speaker 45:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:18 She's... I believe she passed, didn't she, recently? Really fascinating woman.

Speaker 45:25 Amanda Feilding.

Joe Rogan 45:26 Amanda Feilding.

Speaker 45:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:27 She, she died recently, right?

Speaker 45:29 She did, yeah. Yep.

Joe Rogan 45:29 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 45:30 So, uh-

Joe Rogan 45:32 She- but she did self-trepanation.

Raul Bilecky 45:33 She did self-trepana- Uh, uh-

Joe Rogan 45:35 But that's not elongation of the skull.

Raul Bilecky 45:38 No, but if th- there's an idea that what that trepanation might have done... In, in, in the ancient days, they did it, like, to release the evil spirits, if somebody was afflicted with some sort of psychosis or something like that, uh. But... And I forget if it was, uh, Amanda. Um, something happens in, in, in- with your brainwaves when, like, the brain is exposed or something, like, there's some sort of-

Joe Rogan 46:05 Oh.

Raul Bilecky 46:05 I, I don't know, uh-

Joe Rogan 46:06 How the fuck do you find that out without doing it?

Raul Bilecky 46:09 But if the skull is elongated, I don't know if it gives extra space to, uh, uh... It, uh, I forget [chuckles] who told me this.

Joe Rogan 46:19 Was it-

Raul Bilecky 46:19 It, like, changes the, the chemical, uh, structure of the brain, that, like, kinda like a DMT experience, you're open to more things. I-

Joe Rogan 46:28 Oh.

Raul Bilecky 46:29 And so an id- an idea is that if you elongated it and had that extra space in the skull for the brain to have more oxygen, I guess, uh, maybe it affects your brain chemistry. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 46:43 Just pure speculation.

Raul Bilecky 46:44 Pure- pure speculation. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 46:45 But one of the things about some of these skulls they found is that the volume is larger than a, than a human brain.

Raul Bilecky 46:51 That's true.

Joe Rogan 46:53 So how would you do that just by stretching it out with boards? I mean, it would seem like you have the same volume, you're just changing the shape of it, right?

Raul Bilecky 47:01 That... Yeah, but there are s- there are some, like you said, that have more volume-

Joe Rogan 47:05 Right

Raul Bilecky 47:05 ... that would appear to have more volume.

Joe Rogan 47:07 And there, have there been no studies on these weird ones, the ones that don't have those sagittal lines, that, that correspond with human beings?

Raul Bilecky 47:15 Uh-

Joe Rogan 47:16 'Cause some of them don't, right?

Raul Bilecky 47:17 French, French studies, I think.

Joe Rogan 47:18 That's the problem.

Raul Bilecky 47:19 That is, that is the problem.

Joe Rogan 47:20 What are we looking at? Are we looking at an animal head that they've kind of like shoved onto, like, human features and glued things together? Like, what are we looking at?

Raul Bilecky 47:26 Oh, with the, with the mummies?

Joe Rogan 47:28 What's... I mean, some of these skulls.

Raul Bilecky 47:30 Well, it's- I mean, some of the, like, like the one you just saw, I mean, they're, they're there. Um, they're, they're just out in the desert. I don't know why funding hasn't been-

Joe Rogan 47:39 And you've found them just sitting there.

Raul Bilecky 47:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:41 And you just leave them there?

Raul Bilecky 47:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:43 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 47:43 I put a pin on... I mean, eventually, one day, I would like to, um, I don't know, have- form some sort of relationship with the Ministry of Culture, 'cause the thing is, nobody's going out there. And, and I spec- I specifically went to places this last expedition that I went the first year, just to see what happened a year later, and those places were looted even more. The things I had found and come across and documented, like an elongated skull, wasn't there anymore. So these things are being taken and sold.

Joe Rogan 48:13 Mm-hmm.

Raul Bilecky 48:13 Um-

Joe Rogan 48:13 Makes you wonder how much of it was there in the past.

Raul Bilecky 48:17 Dude, I mean, I don't... Like, that eight kilometers of looting, it was all bones and textile and [exhales] pottery, and I, I mean, just eight full kilometers, and, like, p- people must have-

Joe Rogan 48:32 So it's an eight-kilometer graveyard?

Raul Bilecky 48:33 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:34 Ooh.

Raul Bilecky 48:35 Um-

Speaker 48:36 When I'm looking up trepanation, um-

Joe Rogan 48:38 Ooh, that's a weird one

Speaker 48:39 ... this elongated skull's coming up. Apparently, this one is in Oklahoma, a museum of some kind.

Joe Rogan 48:45 That's the one that looks like it's had surgery on it-

Speaker 48:47 Yeah

Joe Rogan 48:47 ... and there's, like, some sort of a metal implant put in?

Speaker 48:49 It doesn't come up in that, in that context, like this one's coming up, too, but what they're saying is that the metal implant is used-

Speaker 48:55 ... after trepanation's been done to sort of patch the bone.

Raul Bilecky 48:59 Sometimes that, that has been, um, that has been documented as, as happening.

Joe Rogan 49:03 What kind of metal are they using on your fucking head?

Speaker 49:05 Well, that's the weird thing, too, 'cause that metal has come up in the skull scans on, like, Montserrat.

Joe Rogan 49:10 Man!

Speaker 49:10 I don't know which one in particular had it, but they're saying it, it's got, like, metal that wasn't available, you know, at the time.

Joe Rogan 49:15 What's that one in the lower left-hand corner? That one looks crazy.

Raul Bilecky 49:18 Oh, that's the Chango skull.

Joe Rogan 49:20 What's the... Okay, so that one looks different.

Raul Bilecky 49:21 That's, that's in the Chango. Yeah, that's-

Speaker 49:23 This says it's in Paracas, but I mean, that's Paracas-

Joe Rogan 49:24 Click on that?

Speaker 49:26 No.

Raul Bilecky 49:26 It's very close to where I found the one I showed you from my footage.

Joe Rogan 49:29 Okay, that skull looks nuts. So that doesn't look like a human skull at all.

Raul Bilecky 49:34 No. That one is- [coughs]

Joe Rogan 49:36 Like, look at the lines on that one.

Raul Bilecky 49:38 [coughs]

Joe Rogan 49:38 That's fucking crazy.

Raul Bilecky 49:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:41 That doesn't seem like it has any of the normal lines that a human skull has.

Raul Bilecky 49:47 That museum, unfortunately, is closed now, so you can't go see it. I tried to.

Joe Rogan 49:50 Well, where is it?

Raul Bilecky 49:51 It was in Para- They... The Ministry of Culture shut down that museum.

Joe Rogan 49:55 [exhales] Oh, the collection often except- exceptionally elongated skulls found in Paracas, particularly around the village of Chungor near Pisco, dating to around 700 BCE to 200 CE. These skulls exhibit severe artificial cranial deformation, practice used by elite Paracas culture members to signify status. Huh.

Raul Bilecky 50:26 That, that is the, the one we just saw in that, in that museum is the largest one.

Joe Rogan 50:30 But it's weirdly large. Can you find some more images of that one?

Speaker 50:34 I'm trying to find some other stuff that's not three years old or older.

Joe Rogan 50:37 Oh, it's okay. Let's just see the m- images of it.

Raul Bilecky 50:40 It might be hard for that one since the museum closed.

Joe Rogan 50:43 Right, but there's images.

Raul Bilecky 50:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:45 So that looks like it's a lot more volume than a human head. The one on the far left, w- just, or the one... Yeah, either one, the one below it. Like, that, just the image alone of that, how do you get a normal human head-

Raul Bilecky 50:59 I-

Joe Rogan 50:59 ... to be that large?

Raul Bilecky 51:01 Without some sort of, uh, I mean, maybe- [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 51:03 That looks like you stuffed a balloon into someone's eyeball and kept pumping it up-

Raul Bilecky 51:06 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 51:07 ... you know, while they're a baby. Like, what, what the hell is that? That's so much bigger than a normal human skull.

Raul Bilecky 51:15 And then you think if it, you know, with the skull binding practice, I mean, are you- is there gonna be some form of mental difficulties with that human being now-

Joe Rogan 51:26 Or-

Raul Bilecky 51:26 If it's a human being

Joe Rogan 51:27 ... or, or expanded capacity.

Raul Bilecky 51:28 Or expanded, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:29 Yeah. Because this is like... So the cranial capacity is 25% more than a normal skull. It weighs 50% or 60% more than a normal skull. Also, the eye sockets are larger, and the jaw is larger and more compact. God, that looks like a different kind of human.

Raul Bilecky 51:50 So there's, uh, there are-- And when you go to these museums, there's all sorts of d- there's-

Joe Rogan 51:55 What's that one up there? The one to the right of your cursor. What the fuck is that? Is that real?

Speaker 52:00 That's, uh... That's why I was-- I didn't wanna go here-

Joe Rogan 52:01 Whoa!

Speaker 52:02 ... because it's bringing up a bunch of fake shit, too. That's why I was trying to-

Joe Rogan 52:05 Is that fake?

Raul Bilecky 52:06 I haven't seen that one before.

Speaker 52:08 I don't know. It doesn't... I don't, I mean, um, [sighs] it taking me to Facebook are, was already a big red flag.

Raul Bilecky 52:12 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 52:12 I know, Facebook is-

Raul Bilecky 52:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 52:14 ... a hub of fake shit.

Raul Bilecky 52:15 Oh, man.

Speaker 52:16 Yeah, it's the same picture.

Raul Bilecky 52:16 You can't, you can't escape it on there.

Joe Rogan 52:17 It's the same picture. So the lot of them are probably AI-generated.

Speaker 52:21 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 52:21 But that one, that's 25% larger than a normal human skull and larger eye so- look, the eye, eye sockets are fucking huge. That's also weird.

Raul Bilecky 52:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:31 It's just like, that's the problem with all this looting that's been going on for so many years. It's like they were- there might have been some evidence of a different kind of human that lived with these people, and... I mean, imagine if we find out that that different kind of human was what populated that area, and they were the people that built Sacsayhuamán and-

Raul Bilecky 52:54 Because they, Paracas isn't... Paracas is the highest concentration of the ones that have been found, but you find them up in the Cusco region, too. Um, there's, uh, th- there's a v- video I have, uh, I think, I think it's Ch- Chisneri, C-H-I-S-I-N-

Joe Rogan 53:17 Can I ask you, what, what is the conventional explanation for the larger capacity of the skull and then the larger eyeballs, the eye sockets?

Raul Bilecky 53:26 I don't know that there is a conventional explanation other than-

Joe Rogan 53:29 It seems like you would have to explain that. Like, if that's not something different than-

Raul Bilecky 53:34 Deep cranial d-

Joe Rogan 53:34 ... Homo sapien human being like you or me, what is that? That seems... That's a different thing, right?

Raul Bilecky 53:42 You would think.

Joe Rogan 53:43 Right.

Raul Bilecky 53:43 Yeah. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 53:43 Like, if you look at a Neanderthal skull, and you look- mine's pretty close to one.

Raul Bilecky 53:47 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 53:47 But if you look at a Neanderthal skull and, uh, a normal human skull, you can clearly see the Denisovans. You clearly see the difference. Homo julians, you see the difference. That's different, man.

Raul Bilecky 53:58 It's different, and, and some of this, uh, some of the stuff in their, in their jaws and with, like, the, the set of teeth, there's differences. I mean, I haven't done a deep dive into it personally, um, but there, there are a multitude of, of differences that have been highlighted.

Joe Rogan 54:14 And for people that are skeptical, one thing that you have to recognize is that it's really hard to make a fossil. Fossils, we, the, I mean, m- most things that die and have died forever do not become fossils. They get consumed by the Earth like a normal thing would. You know, that's why you don't find... Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 54:35 I mean, yeah, yeah. A- and, uh, I mean, and if you're talking about going back 10,000 years-

Joe Rogan 54:40 Mm-hmm

Raul Bilecky 54:40 ... that's why you're not, you're not seeing much evidence of stuff.

Joe Rogan 54:43 Right.

Raul Bilecky 54:43 I mean, it's been so long.

Joe Rogan 54:44 It's gone.

Raul Bilecky 54:45 These, these things are preserved because they're between, at, at most, typically, at most, 2,000-ish years in, in that region, old. They're preserved so well because of the climate there, which is... I mean, when you're going in these burial, you still see the hair of people. It hasn't disintegrated.

Joe Rogan 55:03 Whoa!

Raul Bilecky 55:03 Like, it's, it's there, um-

Joe Rogan 55:05 God, that's so creepy.

Raul Bilecky 55:06 ... Dude, I have some creepy photos for you, man. Like, I, I don't know, you might wanna put a disclaimer out before the show. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 55:13 No, the show. People know on this show, you don't need a disclaimer.

Speaker 55:15 Uh, here, here's a quick question. Uh, I found a video-

Joe Rogan 55:17 Ooh

Speaker 55:17 ... of a guy with an elongated skull. He's talking about these and showing it. Uh, I'm just, besides a reference to his hand, does the skull seem small?

Joe Rogan 55:26 It does.

Speaker 55:27 Like-

Joe Rogan 55:27 Unless he's got some giant-ass basketball player hands.

Raul Bilecky 55:29 That's kind of the size of the one I, I, the one I showed you earlier. It was smaller than you would think.

Speaker 55:34 So, like-

Joe Rogan 55:34 But a lot of the people there back then were very small, right? They didn't have access-

Raul Bilecky 55:39 That's true

Joe Rogan 55:39 ... to a lot of protein. Like, I went to Chichen Itza, and, uh, m- one of the weirder things is how small the people are there, how small the Mayan people... I'm short already, and the-- I was a giant-

Raul Bilecky 55:51 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 55:51 ... compared to these people. It was really weird.

Raul Bilecky 55:53 It's typ- typically the same, uh-

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Raul Bilecky 56:35 Same, same in Peru until the S- when the Spanish came.

Joe Rogan 56:39 Hmm, and then the interbreeding.

Raul Bilecky 56:41 Then interbreeding, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:42 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 56:43 But if you go to, uh, Jamie-

Speaker 56:45 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 56:45 ... if you just open up the photos remains folder, this is, this is the stuff you see. I mean, there's still skin on some of these things-

Joe Rogan 56:54 Whoa!

Raul Bilecky 56:54 ... like, which is why-

Joe Rogan 56:57 Whoa, that's creepy.

Raul Bilecky 57:01 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 57:01 And how old is that hand?

Raul Bilecky 57:04 Probably, uh, I mean, at this burial site, based on the artifacts I was seeing, it's Paracas or Nazca, so-

Joe Rogan 57:10 Go back one, Jamie, please.

Speaker 57:12 Yeah, yeah. One second.

Joe Rogan 57:13 Look at the cloth next to it, too. So what is that piece of cloth, you think?

Raul Bilecky 57:18 Uh-

Joe Rogan 57:18 It's like it's braided at the bottom, and then the, the-

Raul Bilecky 57:21 I didn't see a hole in the middle, so I don't think it was a s-- and it's too fancy for a sling, I think. Uh, so I'm not, I'm not 100% sure.

Joe Rogan 57:29 Unless it's a fancy sling, like something with-

Raul Bilecky 57:31 It could be, yeah [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 57:32 ... fancy bows and arrows.

Raul Bilecky 57:33 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 57:33 Fancy guns.

Raul Bilecky 57:34 True. True.

Joe Rogan 57:35 Look at the hand, man. That's so creepy.

Raul Bilecky 57:38 But so, and what you see to the right of it is like, what kind of looks like burlap is... I mean, that's what the mummies were wrapped in. They were stuffed with cotton or put in the fetal position, uh, wrapped with textile, then cotton, then more textile and ropes, and, and that's some of the, uh, cotton and wrapping that-

Joe Rogan 57:56 The grave robbers had torn apart-

Raul Bilecky 57:58 Right, yeah

Joe Rogan 57:58 ... trying to find gold and jewels and-

Raul Bilecky 58:00 Yeah

Joe Rogan 58:00 ... things like that. Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 58:02 And what's unfortunate is some of the, uh, some of the most beautiful pottery there, too, it's just completely destroyed.

Joe Rogan 58:08 Wow! Whoa. Look at all those bones. This is-- You found this?

Raul Bilecky 58:14 Yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 58:16 God, that's gotta be creepy just seeing all those dead people's bones and rope.

Raul Bilecky 58:20 It's... It, it, it affects you, man. It, it definitely does.

Joe Rogan 58:24 And, uh, what's the time period of this?

Raul Bilecky 58:27 This, this is, um, 2,000 years.

Joe Rogan 58:34 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 58:35 This, that, that picture actually isn't, isn't from Nazca. That was another... I have a video of this to show you, this place.

Joe Rogan 58:43 There's just so much weirdness about Peru, just the Nazca Lines alone. Like, what were they doing? Why were you making artwork you can only see-

Raul Bilecky 58:52 Only see from the sky

Joe Rogan 58:53 ... from the sky? That's crazy. Ooh! Oh, look at the hair. That's nuts.

Raul Bilecky 59:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:01 Oh, normal-sized skull, though?

Raul Bilecky 59:04 Actually, that one, I, I, I, I don't have the pictures in that folder, but I measured it. Uh, it's, it's, it's incredibly bulbous. It's much-

Joe Rogan 59:12 Oh

Raul Bilecky 59:12 ... more bulbous than a normal skull. That-

Joe Rogan 59:14 So you're just getting a side view of it. It's d-

Raul Bilecky 59:16 Yeah, and I put the tape measurer there next to it, and-

Joe Rogan 59:20 Oof, that's crazy! You see the skin.

Raul Bilecky 59:24 Yeah, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 59:24 Ugh, the skin and the hair on the skull. Oh, God, that's creepy.

Raul Bilecky 59:32 It's why... Yeah, I mean, I mean, that [sighs] I, you know, I, I, I thought that I had gotten-- This is another thing that's been set up.

Joe Rogan 59:42 And you think the grave robbers do this?

Raul Bilecky 59:45 You know, there were some places where I found things set up like this with little candy, little modern candies, and what that is, is it's a tradition called Pago a la Tierra, paying the land. Um, and so whoever left the candy, I don't think was a grave robber. It was probably a lo- and it was a w- it's a way of giving back to the land, giving back to the ancestors. I started doing that with, you know, if I had a soda bottle or something, you pour out some Coca-Cola and, and pay the land for walking to-

Joe Rogan 1:00:16 Hmm

Raul Bilecky 1:00:16 ... for walking to it and documenting the stuff. It was a-

Joe Rogan 1:00:20 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 1:00:20 ... nice little practice, but, um... So the, uh, I would say that, like 2,000-ish years old. Just, just to circle back, so some of these things, this is all on the surface. I, I don't go digging. That's not-

Joe Rogan 1:00:39 Right

Raul Bilecky 1:00:39 ... it's not on me, uh, but the huaqueros do, and that's where they're finding these things intact. They're finding these things intact, where you can put them into a CT scanner, and it's gonna show the, the whole insides, and-

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 Has any [sighs] um, uh, have any-... paleontologists done, or archaeologists, bring- brought these skulls and b- brought them for examination to try to find out if there's intact DNA that can be studied, supposed to be-

Raul Bilecky 1:01:10 They're supposed to be, they're supposed to be doing DNA tests on six of the specimens. Uh, but if you watch my video, uh, [chuckles] you'll see each time they've done DNA tests on all the hoaxes that they've been a part of before, I imagine the results are going to be the same.

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 Yeah, but I don't mean the hoaxes. I mean, the elongated skulls with the large eye sockets, things along those lines.

Raul Bilecky 1:01:28 Uh, you know, there is a lot of... The, the bureaucracy of how to go about doing anything with the Ministry of Culture in Peru is, i- i- it's so disjointed. You can't get things done. Y- you just can't get... I know, I know Brian Foerster for decades was trying to get some sort of official path to do DNA studies on these things, and, um... So, I mean, I'm, I'm hoping with the work that I'm doing with Pillars of the Past, that, that some of those boundaries can be broken, where we can actually get permission to study these things, because it's the- it's, it's Peru's patrimony. You can't just go in there and-

Joe Rogan 1:02:10 Right

Raul Bilecky 1:02:10 ... you know, um.

Joe Rogan 1:02:11 Right, that makes sense.

Raul Bilecky 1:02:11 And so-- And, and it costs money to do those things, too, and you have to do it in, in the aboveboard way, and so it's kind of waiting for the okay from them.

Joe Rogan 1:02:22 Well, it seems like, at the very least, the most bizarre, elongated skulls should be studied more closely.

Raul Bilecky 1:02:29 I agree.

Joe Rogan 1:02:29 It shouldn't just be like, "Oh, it's in a museum. Look at the head. Big, huh?"

Raul Bilecky 1:02:32 Agree.

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 "Weird eyes."

Raul Bilecky 1:02:33 [laughing] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 "Let's move on. Look at this bowl. It's broken, but, you know, pretty interesting."

Raul Bilecky 1:02:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:38 "Let's move on." Like, no, what the fuck is going on with that head?

Raul Bilecky 1:02:40 Let's put some money, figure it out, and-

Joe Rogan 1:02:43 'Cause if it turns out that there was a totally different branch of the human species-

Raul Bilecky 1:02:48 It's huge. It's huge.

Speaker 1:02:50 Yeah, uh, [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 What's up?

Speaker 1:02:53 I don't know the accuracy of this, that's why I'm hesitant to even bring it up, but as you're asking about that, that video I pulled up is, this guy said that they'd tested 12 or 18 skulls.

Raul Bilecky 1:03:02 That's Foerster.

Speaker 1:03:04 And some of them came back as Native American. I'm trying to-- I'm reading the, the closed captioning, but some of them did not.

Raul Bilecky 1:03:11 Some of them came back from the Black Sea area.

Speaker 1:03:13 Yeah, the Caspian Sea, Black Sea area from 2,000 to 3,000 years ago.

Joe Rogan 1:03:16 Oh.

Raul Bilecky 1:03:16 Which there have been skulls found out in those areas, too.

Joe Rogan 1:03:21 Wow!

Speaker 1:03:23 I don't know if it does say it.

Raul Bilecky 1:03:24 Black and Caspian Seas, as in the Caucasus Mountains.

Joe Rogan 1:03:29 Whoa!

Raul Bilecky 1:03:30 So that's very intriguing. Um, what I can also share with you is what I believe was the migrational pattern, because these people, like the some indigenous people of the Caspian area and Black Sea area, um, were and are dark red-haired and also very light-skinned and green eyes, and this seems to correspond as well with the elongated skulls. So I believe what happened-

1:03:56 They do have red hair, a lot of them

1:03:57 ... about 3,000 years ago, the, uh, ancestors of the Paracas decided to leave the area because they were being invaded by someone, and so they traveled south through Iraq and Iran to the Persian Gulf, and there they wound up sailing eastwards, and eventually found their way to the coast of Peru. There are different r-

Speaker 1:04:21 Yeah, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:04:21 Mm

Speaker 1:04:22 ... making speculation. That'd be tough.

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:04:24 Well, so that's the thing. With, with theories like this, I'm like, "Let's put some effort to peer review this stuff."

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:04:29 You know, like, "Let's, let's do the studies that are needed, uh, have multiple universities test these things, come up with a standard set of results," and then... I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:04:40 So what is missing? Funding, interest? It- it's... It seems like this is, in, in ter- in terms of, like, really doing a comprehensive study of archaeological sites, Peru seems like the least studied. Is that accurate?

Raul Bilecky 1:04:58 Half, halfway, I would say, only because... Look, there, there's a part of me that also [chuckles] feels for the Ministry of, of Culture in a way, where there's so many sites in Peru, that to have eyes everywhere to protect it, to have teams excavating things every... I mean, it-

Joe Rogan 1:05:18 Isn't that alone kind of crazy, how many sites there are in Peru?

Raul Bilecky 1:05:22 Yes. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 And the fact that also you have Sacsayhuamán, you have the Nazca Lines, you have all this weirdness in this one part of the world. Like, why?

Raul Bilecky 1:05:33 You have the oldest stone pyramids in the Americas, pyramids that predate the pyramids of Giza by a thousand years.

Joe Rogan 1:05:41 What do they look like?

Raul Bilecky 1:05:42 If you look up, uh, Caral, uh, they are... Dude, I've done a whole thesis on this. Like, I, I, I plan to write a-- I don't think I'll ever get it peer-reviewed, but I plan to write a paper about my, my theories on some of the stuff I've found. So Caral was this area on the coast. It's, uh, C-A-R-A-L, and these pyramids had... G- Graham Hancock's been looking into this stuff, too, um, this sunken circular plaza. So they're just... This is a-

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 Whoa! This, this predates Giza. Uh, well, what we think-

Raul Bilecky 1:06:18 Ye-

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 ... is the date of Giza.

Raul Bilecky 1:06:20 The, the, the great pyramids-

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 Conventional

Raul Bilecky 1:06:21 ... the conventional dating, right. So, all right, let's, let's see if I can condense this. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:06:26 Okay.

Raul Bilecky 1:06:27 This site has, I don't know, eight of these pyramids. They're actually all throughout the valley and four valleys around it. The earliest one, in a separate valley close to this, dates back to 4000 BCE. It has the remnants of a sunken circular... The main thing that's to keep note of is that sunken circular plaza, because it's a feature that you not only see there in that, those four valleys, but you also see it 200 kilometers north of Peru in-

Joe Rogan 1:06:56 And what's the conventional explanation for these sunken circular plazas?

Raul Bilecky 1:06:59 Uh, ri- ritual, uh, ritual spaces, uh, some people say collecting water, some people say the acoustics are different. Here's the interesting thing about it. This site was discovered in-... the 1940s, and-

Joe Rogan 1:07:14 Wow, look at that artwork.

Raul Bilecky 1:07:15 Nobody did anything about it. The, the archaeo- this is what you'll f- this is what happens in Peru. In the, from the 1900, early 1900s to 1940s, archaeologists and historians were going up and down the coast finding stuff. I mean, just finding stuff, and they would write it down, they'd put it on the map. That's why the Ministry of Culture has it on their archaeological database. They'd pick through it what they could, put stuff in museums, and just move on. That site, Caral, predated any s- any ceramics. I mean, this was a pre-ceramic culture, so there were no artifacts to find. So they just, they just moved on. It wasn't until Dr. Ruth Shady in, like, the '80s and '90s, actually put research in and figured out, "Hey, this is older than everything else we've found," because they just overlooked it. There were no ar- no artifacts. They were just like, "We're gonna move on."

Joe Rogan 1:08:10 When you say no artifacts, like, that seems weird to me, because, like, why would you make these immense structures and not have a bowl to put rice in, right?

Raul Bilecky 1:08:19 They, uh, a lot of animal skins, uh, and, and the weaving, the... So, uh, these cultures, what they found is, so that's a little, little further inland, they had a sister site on the coast. And so what they would do, the, the only agriculture they would grow was cotton. That cotton, they would trade with the people on the coast, so they could make nets and fish with it. The fish they would bring back, they would give back to those people who made the cotton for them. So it was this weird, you know, interplay. And, uh, the other unique thing about this time period is there was no evidence of warfare for 1,000 years. Nobody was fighting each other. It was very just- everybody, no weapons, no anything like that.

Joe Rogan 1:09:05 No weapons?

Raul Bilecky 1:09:06 No weapons, for 1,000 years.

Joe Rogan 1:09:09 That seems insane. Is that just no evidence of weapons?

Raul Bilecky 1:09:12 Uh, that's currently no evidence of weapons.

Joe Rogan 1:09:14 Right, but maybe someone stole the weapons.

Raul Bilecky 1:09:16 That's, that's possible.

Joe Rogan 1:09:18 'Cause I mean, you, you're talking about a place that's been looted ad nauseam, right?

Raul Bilecky 1:09:22 That's true. I mean, they, they put in a lot of work, though, excavating it, especially that site, Caral.

Joe Rogan 1:09:27 So you feel like somewhere they would find-

Raul Bilecky 1:09:29 They would-

Joe Rogan 1:09:29 ... some sort of a axe head or?

Raul Bilecky 1:09:31 They found, um... The only artifacts of major note, um, are some of those carvings that we saw, and then bone flutes with carvings on them, uh, and the nets, the fishing nets.

Joe Rogan 1:09:46 Hmm.

Raul Bilecky 1:09:47 And, uh, my whole th- um, my whole theory is this was a pocket. It's called the Norte Chico culture. It's a little pocket in these four valleys, and I w- and I w- I, I went all over them, documenting these pyramids. They don't look like pyramids anymore. They look like mounds. They's, they're so old. Um, but there's another place 200 kilometers north in the Casma Valley, and what they have found is underneath the structures that are currently exposed, they found deeper layers of temples with that sunken plaza in this whole other location, and those are dating to the same time. So I firmly believe that what we- what archaeologists currently say is the oldest culture, I believe it w- it went the whole coast of Peru.

Joe Rogan 1:10:36 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 1:10:37 I mean, like, this was a cradle of civilization, I mean, hands down.

Joe Rogan 1:10:41 Cradle of civilization, 6,000 years ago.

Raul Bilecky 1:10:44 6,000 years ago.

Joe Rogan 1:10:45 So which is right around the time we think the cradle of civilization happened in Sumer.

Raul Bilecky 1:10:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:52 Wow.

Raul Bilecky 1:10:53 And so the hard thing about it is, like, you, you'll have car- you'll have some carvings in adobe that's been preserved in some of these places. Uh, so there's some sort of iconography, uh, but there's no writing like the Sumerian. The, the, the whole thing about Peru is, like, there was no, no writing system that we know of. There, there is a theory, and I, and I believe this: I believe the khipus, the, the rope strings with knots-

Joe Rogan 1:11:19 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 1:11:20 ... I believe that was a language. But the Spanish burnt as- [chuckles] as soon as, as soon as the Spanish came over, they burned as many as those things that, as they could find, and they killed the people who could read them, so we don't, we won't ever know.

Joe Rogan 1:11:32 Oh, God, Spaniards, how dare you?

Raul Bilecky 1:11:35 But there's like, there's evidence that they would... They took some, some of the Incas to the Spanish court, and so there's an Inca in the Spanish court in front of the queen or king, reading off of these khipus, reading stories, telling the court, and-

Joe Rogan 1:11:50 From knots on strings?

Raul Bilecky 1:11:51 From knots on strings. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:53 Whoa! And that understanding of that stuff is lost?

Raul Bilecky 1:11:57 There, it's, it's lost. Currently, I think, for the last few years, there's been some studies being done in Harvard, trying to use AI to figure out what these m- I mean, and it's not just-

Joe Rogan 1:12:06 How many of these are left over?

Raul Bilecky 1:12:08 Uh.

Joe Rogan 1:12:10 Can we see some images of them?

Raul Bilecky 1:12:12 I think 500 to 1,000. I mean, that's it. I mean, the Spanish went on a mission to burn all these things.

Joe Rogan 1:12:19 'Cause they were trying to convert them to Spanish-

Raul Bilecky 1:12:22 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:12:22 ... and get them to speak the language and-

Raul Bilecky 1:12:25 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:12:25 ... become Catholic.

Raul Bilecky 1:12:27 Pretty much. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:12:27 Yeah. Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:12:28 And, and then, and, and so much history is lost because of it.

Joe Rogan 1:12:32 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:12:33 So it's, um... But what's interesting is, at that oldest place, at Caral, they found a khipu. They found one of these knotted strings.

Joe Rogan 1:12:43 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 1:12:43 And it w- wasn't a fishing net, it was what looked to be a khipu. And so if you have that tradition going back 6,000 years, I mean, that's... There, there's a lot of- This picture's from 1994. This is what it looked like then. Just doesn't look like anything.

Joe Rogan 1:13:01 So you see that on the right, the, those pits?

Raul Bilecky 1:13:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:04 That's looting pits. And, uh, wow!

Raul Bilecky 1:13:07 That's what it looks like from above here. I was looking at a map.

Joe Rogan 1:13:10 Oh, so they'd had to dig it up.

Raul Bilecky 1:13:12 This is the map from above.

Joe Rogan 1:13:14 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 1:13:18 ... big area.

Joe Rogan 1:13:20 Why is ancient history so damn fascinating?

Raul Bilecky 1:13:23 If you go on my spreadsheet, there's a place called, uh, Era de-- What is it? I'm looking at my notes here. Uh, Sunken Plaza Era de Pando. It's linked to my YouTube. So this, uh, what we're about to see is right across the valley from Corral. So all throughout that valley are these sites from that Norte Chico culture, and I'm, like, right there on top of this pyramid, and just the drone footage is epic, man. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:13:51 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 1:13:52 So, I went on, I went on, on a mission looking for these places. Um, that's it.

Joe Rogan 1:13:58 The thing about this that is so compelling but also so unsatisfying, is that a lot of these stories, you're never gonna get the full answer.

Raul Bilecky 1:14:11 No.

Joe Rogan 1:14:11 You're never gonna get the full history. You're, you-- It's just the mystery will never be satisfied. You're always gonna be hungry, you know? Which is, is that... For a person like yourself that studies these places and has dedicated so much time to it, is that in any way frustrating, or does it add to the appeal?

Raul Bilecky 1:14:30 Both. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:14:34 Well, they got a 6,000-year-old site.

Speaker 1:14:36 Quick question. Um, there's no one there with you at all, it looks like?

Raul Bilecky 1:14:39 No.

Speaker 1:14:39 Not at all. So no one can stop you from-

Joe Rogan 1:14:42 Taking stuff.

Raul Bilecky 1:14:42 No, I, uh- [chuckles]

Speaker 1:14:43 Digging.

Joe Rogan 1:14:45 Whoa, look at that!

Raul Bilecky 1:14:46 No, I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:14:47 This is you-

Raul Bilecky 1:14:47 ... if you get, if you got caught-

Joe Rogan 1:14:48 With a drone?

Raul Bilecky 1:14:48 Yeah, this is just me. Uh, I, I actually spoke to, um, a-- There was an archaeo- an archaeologist who told me to go to that place, and so I went, and I just, I was the only one there.

Joe Rogan 1:15:01 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 1:15:03 So th- this-- M- my whole thing was I identified most of these places through Google Earth first.

Joe Rogan 1:15:09 [whistles]

Raul Bilecky 1:15:09 Like, they're, they're, they're not labeled.

Joe Rogan 1:15:11 That's crazy.

Raul Bilecky 1:15:11 These places aren't labeled at all. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:15:13 That's crazy. So these aren't documented places?

Raul Bilecky 1:15:17 No, this, this is. So-

Joe Rogan 1:15:18 This one place right here is?

Raul Bilecky 1:15:19 It's not on Google Earth, though. It's not on Google Maps. You won't see any marker of it. But I was able to do some digging because of the guy who took me through the site. I meet this random guy, Luis. Luis is amazing. He's a farmer, right, [chuckles] right here. I freaked him out. Um, he thought I was coming to rob him because he gets robbed often, apparently.

Joe Rogan 1:15:40 Oh, boy. Poor Luis.

Raul Bilecky 1:15:41 But he walked me through the site, and he... This one. Okay, if you pause it, that right there on the bottom right is another one of those temples with the sunken plaza, except that one has monoliths.

Joe Rogan 1:15:55 Oh, it looks like Stonehenge.

Raul Bilecky 1:15:57 Exactly. And nobody's done a study on astro-- I, I don't, I don't know the alignment-

Joe Rogan 1:16:02 Stonehenge, right.

Raul Bilecky 1:16:03 But I can almost guarantee that, that there is some sort of astronomical alignment. So what happened was archaeologists did come back, uh, did come here in the '90s, I think, and it didn't look like Corral. They weren't gonna be able to restore it, so they just kept it as a, you know, to find dating on, on these things.

Joe Rogan 1:16:24 Mm-hmm.

Raul Bilecky 1:16:24 And it, it's from the same culture. It's just a couple valleys over.

Joe Rogan 1:16:29 Hmm. Do you have any footage of the monoliths?

Raul Bilecky 1:16:33 Uh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It'll come up if you fast-forward through it. Uh, it's gonna be back, back closer to where... Yeah.

Speaker 1:16:42 Elephants Stone.

Raul Bilecky 1:16:46 We walk up to it.

Joe Rogan 1:16:47 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 1:16:47 There you go.

Joe Rogan 1:16:48 Oh! Interesting. So some sort of a stone circle of monoliths.

Raul Bilecky 1:16:55 I put it through AI, and it-

Joe Rogan 1:16:56 They're fairly small monoliths, though, right?

Raul Bilecky 1:16:59 Uh, I mean, some of them are, are-- have been buried and removed. But-

Joe Rogan 1:17:03 Oh. So someone's got them in their fucking house somewhere.

Raul Bilecky 1:17:07 Some of them, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:09 Ugh. How much of that is, uh, a problem with archaeology? I, I know that that was a, a giant issue with Egyptian artifacts-

Raul Bilecky 1:17:18 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:17:18 ... that a lot of, like, wealthy people in other countries would just get it imported to their, their den and have a, a big fancy party.

Raul Bilecky 1:17:26 It, it still happens. Um, I will have to say that the... And, and I mean, I've seen it with my own eyes, looting and stuff. I've, I've never come across a, like, somebody in the field doing, doing it, though.

Joe Rogan 1:17:37 That would be fucking terrifying, right?

Raul Bilecky 1:17:38 That, that would be freaky, yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:17:40 Because they'll kill you.

Raul Bilecky 1:17:41 Dude, you're out in the middle of nowhere.

Joe Rogan 1:17:42 And if they get caught, they're in deep shit-

Raul Bilecky 1:17:44 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:17:44 ... so they would want to get rid of you.

Raul Bilecky 1:17:46 And I mean, would I... I know for a fact the way some of these get out of the country is, is some of these waqueros have people ins- on the inside who write them certificates and things like that, that say it's a, it's an authentic piece that has been owned by the family for this long, so they can get it out of the country to whoever they're selling it to.

Joe Rogan 1:18:08 Hmm.

Raul Bilecky 1:18:08 That, that's how it works. Um, what's a bigger problem, though, recently, after talking to several archaeologists and witnessing it myself, is agriculture.

Joe Rogan 1:18:18 Oh.

Raul Bilecky 1:18:18 Agriculture. They... I actually went to, I went to a couple sites that I, I found this by mistake, looking on Google Earth. So I f- I would find a site, and I would, like, roll the satellite date back because it, sometimes different seasons give you better imagery. I'm like, "Oh, holy hell, what exists now is a quarter of what existed ten years ago." And now all you see is, like, plantations planted. I mean, they have literally paved over the archaeological site-

Joe Rogan 1:18:49 Oh, no

Raul Bilecky 1:18:49 ... to plant. Dude, and that is... It's become one of the bigger missions of, of the channel and eventuality because, dude, you, you don't know. This site could have aligned with that site, could have aligned with-

Joe Rogan 1:19:01 Hmm

Raul Bilecky 1:19:01 ... you have no idea, and there's no documentation of it. There's no documenta- because nobody's going out there. These places are far away, you know? Um, but here, here's another peculiar thing. [chuckles] This last expedition, so I found one of these sites, and, and I'm on camera, and I'm, I'm ready to go in, like-... guns a-blazing, like, "How dare you do this? How dare you erase this?" And I get there, and, I mean, it's crumbled stones, crumbled walls, and it's just this woman on her farm. And so I start talking to her. This wasn't corporate. This woman has, in fact, wr- did, in fact, write to the Ministry of Culture to say, "Hey, I'm expanding my farm." They didn't get back to her, so she did it. She-

Speaker 1:19:45 Wow

Raul Bilecky 1:19:46 ... you know, paved over or created plots on half the archaeological site. So it, it, it becomes a [inhales] I don't know what, I don't know what the right solution is, 'cause I, I feel for this woman. She's actually-- she's, she's not... This isn't corporate. This is just-

Speaker 1:20:05 She's just surviving.

Raul Bilecky 1:20:05 She's just surviving. The corporate stuff, like, pisses me off, and I'll go hard on them, and, and I do in some of my videos. Um, but she-- And she tried to do the right thing by reaching out to the Ministry of Culture, but what's she supposed to do, wait 10 years to get a response?

Speaker 1:20:20 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:20:20 You know?

Speaker 1:20:20 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:20:21 And so, um, and then I don't know how you empower these people, 'cause from where I sit, is at least if you could document it, then you'd have a record of it. You know, that's, that's what I'm trying to do when I go out there, create 3D models and put it, put pins on a map or something like that, you know?

Speaker 1:20:38 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:20:38 So it's, uh, it's a tricky situation to try to figure out.

Speaker 1:20:43 What's the most compelling site in Peru for you?

Raul Bilecky 1:20:48 I wanted to show you this. Uh, if you, if you look in, in, in my video footage, uh, Purulén Pyramids, P-U-R-U-L-É-N. This site, uh, I think it is much more deserving of future study. It's a site that has 16 platform pyramids.

Speaker 1:21:06 Wow! And what does this site date to?

Raul Bilecky 1:21:11 So when I do- There's, uh, ha- half my, half my role here is, like, I'll go out and figure- find these places, and then on the back end, when I make these videos, I go hard on the research. Like, I, I spend too much-

Speaker 1:21:23 Sorry, which video is that?

Raul Bilecky 1:21:24 Uh, Pyramids Purulén.

Speaker 1:21:27 Oh, I got it.

Raul Bilecky 1:21:31 That's just so you can have a sense of scale.

Speaker 1:21:35 Thank God for drones, huh?

Raul Bilecky 1:21:37 100%.

Speaker 1:21:40 Okay, so that's a platform. So that is the remains of-

Raul Bilecky 1:21:48 That's... Dude, and that, so right back, if you look in, back on the horizon, that's the coast. So this is right on the ocean, which means this has been in- inundated for millennia by tsunamis and, uh-

Speaker 1:22:01 It looks like it.

Raul Bilecky 1:22:02 It, it really does, right? Um-

Speaker 1:22:03 Yeah, it looks like it's completely washed over. Look at how the sand-

Raul Bilecky 1:22:06 Yep

Speaker 1:22:07 ... has formed.

Raul Bilecky 1:22:08 And it's so-- I, I kept that in there. That's the wind. The wind is so [chuckles] s- I, like-

Speaker 1:22:12 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:22:12 I messed up my first drone flying it here. [chuckles] Uh, but check this out. I keep this in so you could just... There's another one.

Speaker 1:22:20 Whoa!

Raul Bilecky 1:22:23 Oh, it gets better, man.

Speaker 1:22:25 That seems like a riverbed that worked-

Raul Bilecky 1:22:27 Another, that's, it-

Speaker 1:22:27 It completely seems like water's washed right over this whole area. [clears throat] I bet if you look at it from far above, it's even more evident, right?

Speaker 1:22:36 Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1:22:37 Yeah. Look at that. Wow!

Raul Bilecky 1:22:41 And they're all the same, have, they all have the same shape.

Speaker 1:22:48 And what's the conventional-

Raul Bilecky 1:22:50 So-

Speaker 1:22:50 ... explanation for this place?

Raul Bilecky 1:22:51 There was one study done on this, and it was a brief survey in 1970. And, um, this guy-

Speaker 1:22:58 That's it?

Raul Bilecky 1:22:58 Yeah. Yeah, that's it. [chuckles]

Speaker 1:23:00 Uh-

Raul Bilecky 1:23:00 However, the archaeologist who did that survey, there's another one there. Um, the archaeologist who did this survey has been quoted in the past 30 years saying he always wanted to come back here and do more research. He just never did. It's not an easy place to get to. Um, but what they dated it at is, even in that report, that 1970s survey, he's saying 1800 BCE, but likely old... Look at that.

Speaker 1:23:28 Wow! Wow.

Raul Bilecky 1:23:34 Here's something unique. If you pause it real quick. All right, so I looked on Google Earth, and those toward the top center, you see those two block-

Speaker 1:23:43 Mm-hmm

Raul Bilecky 1:23:43 ... looking things? All right, so I was like, the, I thought they were megalithic. Um, they're not. All of these, all of these pyramids are carved out of the bedrock-

Speaker 1:23:53 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 1:23:53 ... are carved out of the bedrock. And the only place that there were looting pits are behind those two stones at the top. In that little alcove of the mountains, that was the only place. So I went there, and there's bones there, so that's where people were buried. And I'm like, "Why are they burying people here?" And I stand right in the middle, and it's facing 89 degree, almost perfect east-west, that little gap.

Speaker 1:24:19 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 1:24:19 So, like, that, that's where they were burying their elite people. Um, and-

Speaker 1:24:23 So where the sun would rise in the summer solstice.

Raul Bilecky 1:24:26 Yeah.

Speaker 1:24:28 Wow! Now, how old is this site supposed to be?

Raul Bilecky 1:24:30 So they said, i- in that report, he says 1800... They found one piece of pottery that's documented. [chuckles] They found one, and, and so-

Speaker 1:24:37 This is from the 1970 study?

Raul Bilecky 1:24:39 Yeah. Um, and so they, they're saying 1800 BCE, 'cause that's right around when pottery started. Um, and, but in that report, he says it's likely older as well. He thinks it's older and needs more study. But that was it. That was the only thing that was put out there. I mean, this is, there's 16 pyramids here, and if you look in my drone footage, you'll see it looks like there's another thing here, another thing there.

Speaker 1:25:06 So it's in the neighborhood of 4,000 years old, but possibly older.

Raul Bilecky 1:25:10 Correct. And I think it is w- I, I would stake everything on it being found to be m- much older. Pre-ceramic, pre-pottery, um-

Joe Rogan 1:25:20 ... The pre-ceramic thing is nuts, all right? So, like, here's the thing: [chuckles] what are they using for utensils? What are they using for plates? Like, what are they using to put their food on? And then if it is pre-ceramic, what kind of tools do they have, and how are they carving-

Raul Bilecky 1:25:37 How are they building these pyramids?

Joe Rogan 1:25:38 - this out of the bedrock? I mean, imagine the amount of effort it would take for a human being banging a rock against another rock to try to do that, and then to make it flat. Are these things level? Have they-

Raul Bilecky 1:25:52 They're-- I mean, this is the only modern-- Most of my footage is the only modern media-

Joe Rogan 1:26:00 What?

Raul Bilecky 1:26:01 - in existence of some of these sites.

Joe Rogan 1:26:03 That's crazy!

Raul Bilecky 1:26:04 Of that site-

Joe Rogan 1:26:04 It's just you?

Raul Bilecky 1:26:05 Of that site-

Joe Rogan 1:26:06 Imagine if you didn't exist. Imagine if you, you weren't exposed to that as a 10-year-old.

Raul Bilecky 1:26:12 Yeah. I mean, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:26:14 This is just gonna sit there for, like, another thousand years before somebody else figures it out?

Raul Bilecky 1:26:18 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:26:19 And that's-

Raul Bilecky 1:26:19 Or, or it gets paved over.

Joe Rogan 1:26:21 God!

Raul Bilecky 1:26:22 That's why I'm doing it, man. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:26:23 God, it's so weird.

Raul Bilecky 1:26:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:26:26 But how weird is that?

Raul Bilecky 1:26:27 Dude. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:26:27 How weird is it it's just you? I mean, Raul, what kind of fucking-- what kind of weight on your shoulders is there that this one fascinating site, you're the only guy that's got video of this, modern video? That's crazy.

Raul Bilecky 1:26:41 Yeah. [chuckles] Thanks for having me on, Joe. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:26:47 You're getting kind of choked up about it.

Raul Bilecky 1:26:49 Yeah, man. I mean, it's, um... It's a lot of work, you know? And, and it's just, it's something in me that, uh, I've, I've-

Joe Rogan 1:26:58 Well, it's, it's obviously very compelling to everyone that really pays attention to it. Is this the-

Raul Bilecky 1:27:03 That's when you look on the, the satellite.

Joe Rogan 1:27:05 Oh. And again, this is the thing, this is not like they put some rocks in place. They carved these things out of the bedrock, and they're fucking huge. That's what's so crazy about it.

Raul Bilecky 1:27:21 I just... I had to-- I mean, getting there was-

Joe Rogan 1:27:24 Like, what are we looking at, man? Like, that's the thing-

Raul Bilecky 1:27:28 [exhales]

Joe Rogan 1:27:28 ... like, what are we looking at? And why in Peru, and wha- what, what happened to this area where they had so much, so much sophisticated, complex construction that was absolutely abandoned and there's almost nothing left?

Raul Bilecky 1:27:45 So they-- Over the course of history, what they've found is that, especially c- people like to build on the coast, and there's just, up and down the coast of Peru, there's so much.

Joe Rogan 1:27:55 Sure.

Raul Bilecky 1:27:57 But then, a ma- a major massive El Niño would happen, and that just floods everything. And so people are like, "Well, we gotta, we gotta go up into the mountains," so they start going further into the valleys.

Joe Rogan 1:28:10 Mm-hmm.

Raul Bilecky 1:28:10 C- 'cause Peru's so unique. You have the coast, and then the Andes just start. You know, they just start going up until you get to, you know, the, uh... [inhales] uh, before you start getting into the Amazon, you gotta cross the whole Andes. And, um, so for several hundred years, they would live further up the valley, and then they would come back and repopulate on the coast and build on top of the sites that used to be there. And then it would happen again, and they would go back. And so there's this whole cycle of... And there's some places where you s- you will find that direct, um... It's very hard to find megalithic stuff, though, like the stuff you're finding in Cusco, for example, uh, on the coast. You don't really find that, um, y- you don't really find that type of architecture on the coast. Uh, you didn't have that building material. You didn't have stones like that.

Joe Rogan 1:29:02 Mm-hmm.

Raul Bilecky 1:29:04 And so it's my belief that [clears throat] some of these places existed f- further back than we think. Like, this place here on the coast, the erosion and the, the wind and the water, that must have affected it. I, I can only im- I have footage from... What we just saw was drone footage from this year. I didn't get much drone footage the year before. I could already see how much has been covered in one year, in one year, from, from having gone there again, and, and it's just... Imagine over millions of year, or-

Joe Rogan 1:29:39 Thousands

Raul Bilecky 1:29:39 ... thousands of years.

Joe Rogan 1:29:40 How old-

Raul Bilecky 1:29:40 It's crazy

Joe Rogan 1:29:41 ... if you had to just take a wild guess, with no one holding you to this at all, how old do you think we're talking about here?

Raul Bilecky 1:29:48 I think, I... There's, uh... I, I, I go back pre-cataclysm, the, the Younger Dryas. There's evidence on, like Huaca Prieta, that there was this mound that was carved out of the bedrock that Tom Dillehay and his team excavated, and that, academically accepted, dates back to 12,500 BCE. And so there were, there were people living on the coast at that time.

Joe Rogan 1:30:14 So this mound, what does that look like?

Raul Bilecky 1:30:16 Uh, there's a... It looks just like a... This is an interesting site. [clears throat] That's it.

Joe Rogan 1:30:25 What am I looking at here?

Raul Bilecky 1:30:26 That mound. [clears throat] That's, and it's-

Joe Rogan 1:30:29 That's not a natural mound?

Raul Bilecky 1:30:31 Yeah, it started off as natural, and so what they f- what they found was they would use their refuse, and so they would put trash on top of the mound and then cap it with, like, adobe mud, so it would become strong. It would become a platform, and then they would build on top of it.

Joe Rogan 1:30:49 So it's a trash mound?

Raul Bilecky 1:30:51 Uh, part of it. [sighs]

Joe Rogan 1:30:52 How weird.

Raul Bilecky 1:30:54 That, that wasn't an uncommon thing back then.

Joe Rogan 1:30:55 And that's more than eleb- 15,000 years old. And what is that? They have writing from there?

Raul Bilecky 1:31:02 No, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:31:03 What's that, cloth?

Raul Bilecky 1:31:03 That's, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:31:05 It's hard to see that image

Raul Bilecky 1:31:05 ... cloth, like fishing nets and cloth.

Joe Rogan 1:31:07 Oh, I see.

Raul Bilecky 1:31:08 It's one of the oldest, uh, pieces of cotton.

Joe Rogan 1:31:11 Oh.

Raul Bilecky 1:31:11 So you ask how they were carrying things and all that? St- with the cotton.

Joe Rogan 1:31:15 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:31:15 But the cotton was coming from further inland.

Joe Rogan 1:31:18 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 1:31:18 It wasn't coming from them. So even back then, they were, um-... So [chuckles] here's the kicker, [chuckles] and th- this is part of, like, the paper I'm thinking on writing. Uh, there's evidence at that place, Huaca Prieta, of a sunken circular plaza, and that predates all the ones we saw by, and even by 2,000 more years. I think this is where that tradition started.

Joe Rogan 1:31:45 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 1:31:46 I think that's where it started, far earlier than anybody accepts or knows.

Joe Rogan 1:31:51 Now, here's the weird one. Like, how did those people get there?

Raul Bilecky 1:31:55 Dude, I-- you know, I've thought about this. I mean, look, if you...

Joe Rogan 1:31:58 Right, if they, if you're, if you're, if you're building these structures 6,000 years ago, 11,000 years ago, 15,000 years ago, when'd you get there?

Raul Bilecky 1:32:06 When'd you get there? And, and there's, yeah, there's the, the plaza. So I mean, I, I, I don't think it t- it, it takes much. I think if you're living on the coast, or I don't know, you- by any sort of water, and you see a piece of wood floating on it, you're like, "Oh, all right." Well, then a thousand years go by, and you have, at that point, put some pieces of wood together to make s- a flotation device, y- you're able to navigate. Like, I, I just, I don't see it not happening, you know? [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:32:34 Eventually.

Raul Bilecky 1:32:34 It... Right. It's, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:32:35 Especially with crazy people.

Raul Bilecky 1:32:37 It's-

Joe Rogan 1:32:38 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:32:38 I mean, we play-

Joe Rogan 1:32:40 Someone's got the, the courage to just sail out there and hope you have enough water on you.

Raul Bilecky 1:32:43 Or you're-

Joe Rogan 1:32:44 Or if you can catch fish-

Raul Bilecky 1:32:44 Or you're fishing and, and-

Joe Rogan 1:32:46 You get stuck.

Raul Bilecky 1:32:47 You get stuck, and there's a storm, and it's like, whoop!

Joe Rogan 1:32:48 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:32:49 And you could never make it back.

Joe Rogan 1:32:50 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:32:50 You know, uh, but I, I think that's happened in multiple places. I, I don't, I don't think that civilization is born and created without, A, that sense of exploration, but also that, that natural ingenuity. I mean, storms happen-

Joe Rogan 1:33:06 Right

Raul Bilecky 1:33:06 ... you see a, a log floating in the ocean.

Joe Rogan 1:33:08 Mm-hmm.

Raul Bilecky 1:33:09 "Well, I can use that to go get, catch more fish."

Joe Rogan 1:33:12 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:33:13 All of a sudden, you're seafaring.

Joe Rogan 1:33:14 Boy!

Raul Bilecky 1:33:16 So [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:33:17 It just... When you see stuff like this that's that old, that's 15,000 years old, y- you go, "Okay, well, this is all that's left from 15,000 years ago." What's left from 30,000 years ago? 'Cause it's, like, double that, right? Right now, you look at 15,000, there's almost nothing. It's like, God, it's so little, and but you get it.

Raul Bilecky 1:33:36 That's why-

Joe Rogan 1:33:36 But if you went another 15 before that, are we talking... What is that?

Raul Bilecky 1:33:40 And, and, and that's why I'm, like, with, with the stuff Biondi, Biondi is doing with the, um, SAR tech, I'm just hoping that that can be affordable and applied in multiple areas to, to find things that are buried underground. One, one thing that I, I, I've always been curious about, why there hasn't been more research un- until I looked into it, all these places were on the coast of Peru, while sea levels were lower at one point, and so what's right off the coast of Peru?

Joe Rogan 1:34:12 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:34:13 You know? And there haven't been many, if any, studies on that, and I'm like, "Why?" Apparently, the Humboldt Current makes it very difficult to... This is, this is what I read, 'cause I was like, "Why hasn't anybody studied this?" [chuckles] Uh, apparently, the Humboldt Current makes it very difficult to do research out there, where it becomes very expensive for the equipment you need and things like that.

Joe Rogan 1:34:34 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 1:34:34 But I guarantee that you'll be- you'll find some stuff off the coast.

Joe Rogan 1:34:40 Yeah, it just makes sense.

Raul Bilecky 1:34:41 Yeah. Yeah, [chuckles] yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34:42 Especially if you find that. I mean, and especially we know that sea levels were far lower, especially if that really is 15,000 years ago. We definitely know that sea levels were lower then.

Raul Bilecky 1:34:52 Yeah, yeah, there-- it wasn't like this... It, it's crazy, too, man, 'cause, like, Tom Dillehay, he got, uh, I mean, he got so much shit from the academic community-

Joe Rogan 1:35:04 Of course

Raul Bilecky 1:35:04 ... for his, for his research down in Monte Verde and this site and now-

Joe Rogan 1:35:07 Which is interesting how consistent it is. It's still going on today-

Raul Bilecky 1:35:10 It's still-

Joe Rogan 1:35:10 ... the same way.

Raul Bilecky 1:35:11 And-

Joe Rogan 1:35:12 And they're always wrong. [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 1:35:13 Right? It's like, you would think you might wanna have an open-- just leave some room in, in-

Joe Rogan 1:35:19 The young archaeologists are.

Raul Bilecky 1:35:21 That's true.

Joe Rogan 1:35:21 I think there's a lot of young archaeologists that have grown up with the internet, and they're really paying attention to this stuff, and they're realizing... And also, when you're young, and you grow up with the internet, you realize, like, gatekeepers of information are a real problem, and they always have been, and they're wrong about so many things. I mean, they're wrong about virtually everything. The, the official narrative of almost everything has holes in it.

Raul Bilecky 1:35:43 Yeah, I'm like, uh, uh, something you said earlier, too, like, this age of study and exploration and, and radiocarbon, it's not that old.

Joe Rogan 1:35:53 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:35:53 It's, um, so we've only been doing this type of research for 100 years with some of the-

Joe Rogan 1:35:58 Right

Raul Bilecky 1:35:58 ... new advancements. Like, you don't think something else is gonna come along that might knock that out?

Joe Rogan 1:36:03 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:36:04 You, you don't wanna leave room for that?

Joe Rogan 1:36:05 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:36:07 Like, it's kind of dickish. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:36:09 It's very dickish. But, you know, no need to focus on the dicks.

Raul Bilecky 1:36:12 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:36:12 But that's why things like Filippo Biondi's work i- is so devastating to the, to the narrative. Because this new technology, and if it shows that it's accurate, and it is accurate on things that we know exist, that's what- where it gets really crazy-

Raul Bilecky 1:36:28 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:36:28 ... especially when they looked 1.2 kilometers through a mountain to find the-

Raul Bilecky 1:36:33 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:36:33 ... particle collider underneath and got the exact dimensions and a map of this particle collider.

Raul Bilecky 1:36:38 It's wild.

Joe Rogan 1:36:39 Right? So they know that it's accurate, and then, then, so what are those pillars? What are these 20-meter in s- in diameter, what are these things?

Raul Bilecky 1:36:49 And why would you not want to divest all the money you can possibly do to figure that out?

Joe Rogan 1:36:54 I think it'll happen. I, um, and I think one of the reasons why it's gonna happen is because of the internet, is because the, just the pressure and the, the amount of interest. And also, think about Egypt, right? E- Egypt, a, a, a large portion of their economy is wrapped around the tourism.

Raul Bilecky 1:37:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:14 Because the tourism-

Raul Bilecky 1:37:15 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:37:16 ... in Egypt is phenomenal 'cause it's one of the most incredible sites in the world.

Raul Bilecky 1:37:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:37:19 Wouldn't you want it to be even more incredible? Like, what's more incredible than some unknown mystery of-... spectacular proportion! Something that goes a kilometer deep under the pyramids-

Speaker 1:37:33 Figure it out [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:37:33 ... and they don't know what it is? Like, this is nuts.

Speaker 1:37:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:36 Also, these, those shafts that go down that are filled with debris now, that they can clear out, and it leads to what, at least this data shows, tunnels, and caverns, and all this shit that's underneath there. Like, what is that?

Raul Bilecky 1:37:49 That's, I, I mean, and, and I think Ben has done phenomenal work putting all this together.

Joe Rogan 1:37:53 Oh, he's incredible. I love that guy.

Raul Bilecky 1:37:55 Like, like, the, the, the history, and the story, and the, and the accounts of-

Joe Rogan 1:37:58 Mm-hmm

Raul Bilecky 1:37:58 ... being in these labyrinths and, and-

Joe Rogan 1:38:00 And he's another guy that got into this because of the internet, you know? I mean, he had a real career in tech. [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 1:38:05 Yeah. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:38:06 And he's like, "Okay, I'm gonna throw this out to be a YouTuber." [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 1:38:10 I, I, I was, uh... Who was it? I forget who I was speaking to, but, I mean, I... My goal is to document as much as possible before it's not there to document, and, and I, I, I mean, it, it's crazy to be on here and to- my ch- my channel is-- I still feel like it's in its, in its infancy. It's two years old.

Joe Rogan 1:38:30 Well, I only found out about it a, a while... I mean, what was it, four months ago?

Raul Bilecky 1:38:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:34 Five months ago or something like that. You know, I started seeing some of your stuff online, I think on X, and I started looking at it on YouTube, and I was like, "Yo!" [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 1:38:44 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:38:44 "This guy's going deep."

Raul Bilecky 1:38:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:46 How did you fund all this stuff? I mean, how do you have the money to go and do these things?

Raul Bilecky 1:38:51 I went broke t- the first expedition. This was a total field of dreams, "If you build it, I'll see what happens." [laughing] Like... And, and fortunately, I mean, uh, people saw the work I had been doing up until that point, and there, there were some GoFundMe donations, which was ama- The, the fact that... I mean, just thank anybody out there, just thank you. Like, the, the people who believe in what I'm doing, like, that's what fills me up the most, too. Like, the, uh, the encouragement and the support from-

Joe Rogan 1:39:25 Mm-hmm

Raul Bilecky 1:39:25 ... from, from people I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:39:27 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:39:27 You know? And, and, and-

Joe Rogan 1:39:28 Well, the content you provide, though, is so fascinating, and it's so, it's so interesting to people like myself and other people that are really interested in it. It's just a matter of getting you exposure. Because the content is so amazing. It's just a matter of people have to find out about it, and then... I mean, YouTube's a great wa- the, the algorithm on YouTube is so good, because it'll recommend... I'll watch one of your videos, and it'll recommend something else interesting, you know? And then-

Raul Bilecky 1:39:53 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:39:53 ... it just keeps going on, and on, and on.

Raul Bilecky 1:39:55 Well, a- and, uh, so I came back from that first expedition. I was there, the first expedition was 23 days. I had two terabytes of footage, and it's funny, that footage lasted me a year and a half until this expedition now, and I was out on this last expedition for 42 days, all over the country. And I mean, the, the video you were talking about when we first started talking, that, that is too, the only-- There's no drone footage of that site ever. There is w- uh, one Facebook post with pictures, and that's it.

Joe Rogan 1:40:29 [whistles]

Raul Bilecky 1:40:29 And I was like, "I have to document this," you know? Uh, and so much from the last expedition is, is like that. It's the only, the only media that, that you'll see of it. And, and [chuckles] -

Joe Rogan 1:40:41 The fact that this, these pyramids carved into the bedrock, that you're the only one that has media of that, is just absolutely insane. What are we looking at here?

Speaker 1:40:50 This, I'm just digging around the area. [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 1:40:53 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:40:53 This is a, a mummy, Lady Kau, they found in 2006.

Raul Bilecky 1:40:59 Yeah.

Speaker 1:40:59 They call her, the, she might have been the first female ruler of the area, the Cleopatra of South America. She- These are pictures of her tattoos.

Joe Rogan 1:41:09 Oh, what?

Raul Bilecky 1:41:10 So actually, what's interesting is, um, it is, it is being... There's a lot of evidence to say that some of these early, early cultures were matriarchal, because they're, they're finding a lot of the tombs of, um, these queens-

Joe Rogan 1:41:26 Mm

Raul Bilecky 1:41:26 ... right there on, right there on the coast.

Joe Rogan 1:41:29 The Sorcerer.

Speaker 1:41:29 Yes, the, the, this one pyramid in this area called El Brujo, where, uh, Huaca Prieta is.

Raul Bilecky 1:41:35 Yep.

Speaker 1:41:36 They found this dope totem.

Joe Rogan 1:41:37 Whoa!

Speaker 1:41:39 Um... [clears throat]

Raul Bilecky 1:41:40 And so what's in- and so I believe this was, um, the, the, I think, Moche? Um, El Brujo, there are-

Speaker 1:41:49 These paintings are on the wall.

Joe Rogan 1:41:51 Wow.

Raul Bilecky 1:41:51 Yeah, I, I have, I have a video on YouTube of those.

Joe Rogan 1:41:53 That's cool, too, because you see paint-

Speaker 1:41:55 ... So these-

Joe Rogan 1:41:56 So you realize that these things were very colorful.

Raul Bilecky 1:41:58 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:41:58 Naked prisoners, and that this is a recreation of what it would've looked like then.

Joe Rogan 1:42:03 Those are prisoners?

Speaker 1:42:04 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:42:04 Yeah.

Speaker 1:42:05 So the ac- the actual thing I thought was cooler, too.

Joe Rogan 1:42:07 Why are they painting their prisoners? That's weird.

Speaker 1:42:10 Um-

Raul Bilecky 1:42:10 Eh, I mean, everything was painted, though.

Speaker 1:42:12 This was where people-

Joe Rogan 1:42:13 Oh. I mean, why are they making depictions of their prisoners? You know what I mean? Not that they painted it different colors, which is kind of cool, but it's interesting. Like, how old is this supposed to be?

Speaker 1:42:23 Uh, it, anywhere from 3,000... That's what is a very interesting part. 3,000 BC is what they say it goes back to, but they say it wasn't developed until, uh, modern day, like 200 to 600 AD, which is, it's a-

Raul Bilecky 1:42:35 Right

Speaker 1:42:35 ... 3,600 years of nothing.

Raul Bilecky 1:42:37 So it was, I believe it was the Moche culture.

Speaker 1:42:39 1990, this one was found, and a Peruvian banker is the guy. It says he's philanthro- philin- thri- philanthropically minded, I can't say it.

Joe Rogan 1:42:47 Right, and the gr- the g- the huacheros are the ones who told him about it.

Raul Bilecky 1:42:52 And so that's... A lot of these places have been found because of, um, huacheros being reported. All of a sudden, there's an influx in a little village of silver or something like that.

Joe Rogan 1:43:06 Oh.

Raul Bilecky 1:43:06 And then somebody tells the authorities, they figure out where they're going to dig. I mean, there's a appa- there's a good book on it, it's called The Lord of Sipan, um, where ar- archaeologists literally had to, like, stand guard. The townspeople weren't happy that when the archaeologists got involved, and the townspeople were coming to get the gold and coming to get the silver.

Joe Rogan 1:43:28 Ah.

Raul Bilecky 1:43:28 And so there's a whole book about it. [chuckles] But I don't know why nobody's made a movie on it. There, there's a movie.

Joe Rogan 1:43:33 Well, that makes sense, though, right? 'Cause it's life-changing if they can find-... hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gold and silver in the ground.

Raul Bilecky 1:43:41 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:43:42 Fuck these archeologists.

Raul Bilecky 1:43:43 Well, and, uh, some of the earliest m- a lot of this stuff you'll see in the museums, like the Larco Herrera Museum, and, uh, uh, a lot of this stuff, all- a lot of the pottery is preserved because you had these big plantation owners, these big, you know, technocrats, and their workers in the field would constantly be finding this, this artwork, and these, these, these huacas and, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:44:10 Wow.

Raul Bilecky 1:44:10 And so they were like, "You know what? I'll give you $2 every time you bring me, me- bring me one." And now we have the Larco Herrera Museum, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:44:17 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 1:44:17 -full of this stuff. So anywa- And there's-- I was talking to Dr. Ed Barnhart about this. There's also, there's also so much in Peru that the, the people finding these things, they aren't... Maybe nowadays they're making a lot on stuff, but for the past couple decades, there's just, there was just so much. You're getting $3 for-- i- if you're a Peruvian worker in the field, moving this thing up the ladder, you're getting $3 for a, a, a little piece of pottery. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:44:50 So how long have you been doing this for?

Raul Bilecky 1:44:54 I mean, what, I've been with the channel two years.

Joe Rogan 1:44:57 That's it?

Raul Bilecky 1:44:58 Two years, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:44:59 And what were you doing before that?

Raul Bilecky 1:45:00 A video editor.

Joe Rogan 1:45:01 And so you just said, "You know what? I'm gonna just take a leap of faith?"

Raul Bilecky 1:45:05 My contract, my-- I had a contract position, and it ended. Um, [chuckles] I was posting these things I was finding on Google Earth, and I was saying like, "I think this is something. This is why." I came up with this whole methodology, and people were like, "You're full of shit."

Joe Rogan 1:45:22 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:45:22 And, and I was like, "You know what? Let's see." And I went, and, uh, 100% accuracy. Ev- every single place I saw on Google Earth that did not have a label was an archeological site, every single one I went to.

Joe Rogan 1:45:36 How many of them are there?

Raul Bilecky 1:45:36 And that first expedition, I went to 90 in-

Joe Rogan 1:45:40 Ninety!

Raul Bilecky 1:45:40 ... 23 days. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:42 Ninety.

Raul Bilecky 1:45:42 That was the first expedition. I was there for 42 days this time.

Joe Rogan 1:45:46 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 1:45:47 [chuckles] So, like, I've got five terabytes worth of video footage of things nobody's seen.

Joe Rogan 1:45:52 That's crazy.

Raul Bilecky 1:45:54 [chuckles] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:55 But just, I mean, imagine again, what if you didn't do this? That's what's nuts. That's what's nuts. Like, we would be completely ignorant about this stuff.

Raul Bilecky 1:46:05 It, yeah. Yeah. I-

Joe Rogan 1:46:07 It just makes you wonder, like, what was like, like those stone pyramids carved into the bedrock, the only you, you have footage of it, what was that culture? What were they doing?

Raul Bilecky 1:46:17 And, and all I have to go off of is what this... What made me happy is like, and I, and I have it on, on the video phone. I'm talking to the camera, I'm like, "I think this, I think that, I think this carved..." And that survey verified every little thing that I-- which was, like, pretty cool, 'cause I'm, I'm not, you know, academically trained to, m- you know, a- analyze these things, but I have the, I have the experience. Uh, and so it was kind of neat that every bullet point was verified by that survey. Um, the feeling I got going to that place, and that place in particular, I don't think they're gonna find pottery there. I don't think they're gonna... I think it was pre-ceramic, but I also think there weren't houses. There weren't, there were- there might be, y- you know, if you go digging or do, do some lidar. I think it was a place of pilgrimage. That's just my personal-- I, I have nothing to back that up. That's what I felt, though, kind of-

Joe Rogan 1:47:13 Pilgrimage.

Raul Bilecky 1:47:14 Uh, yeah, kind of intu- like, when I was walking there, um... I don't know, man, Peru is weird. [chuckles] Per- the, the energy in Peru is different. And, and so-

Joe Rogan 1:47:24 In what way?

Raul Bilecky 1:47:25 [sighs] I, I, I, I wanna say spiritual, 'cause I don't have a different word for it.

Joe Rogan 1:47:34 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 1:47:34 And it's just... Y- you're just in tune with, with something. I mean, maybe it's just the nature, maybe, but I mean, I, I feel, I feel different down there, and especially going in these far-out places, and when you get to some of these sites, like, you, you, you feel a little different. Um, and, and so just the, kind of the intuitive impression I got was, I wonder if people were coming here as some sort of pilgrimage because there, I mean, there aren't houses there. There's no evidence of people living there, so I-

Joe Rogan 1:48:03 But is that because of time?

Raul Bilecky 1:48:05 That's very, it's very possible.

Joe Rogan 1:48:06 That's the problem-

Raul Bilecky 1:48:07 Very possible

Joe Rogan 1:48:08 ... when you're seeing something that's-- the amount of work that would take to carve something out of bedrock like those pyra- And how many of those pyramids did you find?

Raul Bilecky 1:48:18 There were, like, 16 of them.

Joe Rogan 1:48:19 Sixteen.

Raul Bilecky 1:48:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:20 Okay, they're huge.

Raul Bilecky 1:48:21 Huge.

Joe Rogan 1:48:22 They're carved out of the ground, out of rock, with what?

Raul Bilecky 1:48:27 The, uh... Here's the interesting thing. In that survey, I didn't know this, and I, I tried to pinpoint the location. That main pyramid I was on, there's a p- black-and-white photo from 1970, where they found a carved-out room in that pyramid stru- in that main pyra- There's a... And it looks like a room. It's been ca- m- human carved out, so there's chambers inside [chuckles] these things. Why aren't we studying it?

Joe Rogan 1:48:53 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:48:54 Why haven't we gone back and-

Joe Rogan 1:48:55 Also, how? Like, w-

Raul Bilecky 1:48:58 What are you using to cut?

Joe Rogan 1:49:00 Right. Like, what kind of tools do you have?

Raul Bilecky 1:49:02 And-

Joe Rogan 1:49:03 6,000 years? Like, what, what, what tools were available?

Raul Bilecky 1:49:08 And it's so close to the ocean, you might not ever know, because a tsunami comes in-

Joe Rogan 1:49:12 Right

Raul Bilecky 1:49:12 ... and it's taking it right back out.

Joe Rogan 1:49:13 Right. Right, and if it's metal, it's gone anyway.

Raul Bilecky 1:49:16 It's gone. Same with, same with, I think, also, like, uh, um, I think that little alcove where all the burials were, I think that got, got preserved because it was behind this mountain.

Joe Rogan 1:49:28 Hmm.

Raul Bilecky 1:49:29 I think if there was any civilization there prior that might have been living there, um, all the bones that were there on the, they're gone.

Joe Rogan 1:49:38 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:49:38 They got taken-

Joe Rogan 1:49:38 Of course

Raul Bilecky 1:49:38 ... back out.

Joe Rogan 1:49:39 Of course.

Raul Bilecky 1:49:40 Um, so-

Joe Rogan 1:49:40 ... and probably all the structures, any houses, if they had wooden houses or-

Raul Bilecky 1:49:44 On top of the land?

Joe Rogan 1:49:45 Yeah, gone. Nothing left.

Raul Bilecky 1:49:47 And so all you're left is with this strong-- Who knows if those things were bigger, too, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:49:51 Right. Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:49:52 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:49:53 We might know what was on top of those things-

Raul Bilecky 1:49:55 Exactly

Joe Rogan 1:49:55 ... right?

Raul Bilecky 1:49:56 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:49:57 That's nuts, man.

Raul Bilecky 1:49:58 The thing that gave it away on that site in particular is, when you look aerially, every single one of those pyramid structures is facing northeast. Every single one, and that's for the sunrise on the solstice.

Joe Rogan 1:50:10 Right.

Raul Bilecky 1:50:10 And, and I was like, "This is, this is man-made. This is man-made." And then, and there's still people on the comments who are like, "That's... Oh, that's just a mountain." And I'm like, "Dude, I- what more do you want?" Like, what do you mean? [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:50:22 Wait, wait, they think that those things were just-

Raul Bilecky 1:50:24 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:50:24 Those-- They don't think those things are man-made?

Raul Bilecky 1:50:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:50:27 They're the same shape.

Raul Bilecky 1:50:28 Yeah, I know. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:50:29 They're the same shape, the same size. They're all pointing in the same direction. Shut the fuck up.

Raul Bilecky 1:50:33 I've learned not to fight and just like-

Joe Rogan 1:50:35 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 1:50:35 ... you know, you're gonna believe what you want anyway, you know what I mean? So [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:50:39 It's the history-- I mean, Graham Hancock has the greatest phrase that, "We are a species with amnesia," and I think it's true. And I think it all points back to not just the Younger Dryas impact, but probably several other impacts. You know, my friend John Reeves, he lives in Alaska, and he runs The Boneyard.

Raul Bilecky 1:50:59 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:00 Yeah. John just, um, sent me, uh, some photos of a new site that they have that's under all these other sites, like deep under all these-

Raul Bilecky 1:51:11 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:51:11 ... other sites, where they're finding not just bone, but charred bone. Like an entire area of like burnt tusks, burnt bones, covered in... And he thinks there was another impact-

Raul Bilecky 1:51:24 An impact

Joe Rogan 1:51:25 ... that's-- And, you know, but just, I mean, he's just making a rough estimation, 'cause the o- the, what some of the sites that he found, it's somewhere around 10,000 years ago, due to like, you know, doing the e- examination of the cores, and-

Raul Bilecky 1:51:38 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:51:39 ... he thinks it's 20,000 years ago. So he thinks this is probably a normal thing that has happened all throughout the history of the Earth, is the Earth gets pelted, you know, every 10,000, every 20,000, whatever.

Raul Bilecky 1:51:52 I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:51:52 You just get hit.

Raul Bilecky 1:51:54 And, and that, that speaks to the, the myths and the legends and the-

Joe Rogan 1:51:58 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 1:51:58 ... the Dryas and the Yugas-

Joe Rogan 1:52:00 Mm-hmm

Raul Bilecky 1:52:00 ... and, and, uh, I mean, every civilization has its version of, um, you know, this is the Fifth Epoch or the Fourth Epoch.

Joe Rogan 1:52:08 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:52:08 You know, this is-- the first one was fire, the last one was, you know, water. Th- there's always several cataclysms in history.

Joe Rogan 1:52:15 The Yuga stuff is nuts, too, because-

Raul Bilecky 1:52:17 Yeah [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:52:17 ... it just seems like it's so accurate. And we're in Kali Yuga right now, which is the Age of Deception. And like-

Raul Bilecky 1:52:23 Oh, interesting

Joe Rogan 1:52:23 ... what's more confusing-- That's what it's called, right? Isn't it called the Age of Deception? Find out what Ka- So what's more... Like, if you thought that it was all falling apart before it gets rebuilt, let's like, that's now. Like, this place is fucking crazy.

Raul Bilecky 1:52:38 It's wild. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:52:39 Like, every day, the news is nuts. I've, I've, uh, gone on a social media hiatus over the last few days, and I feel so good, and I, I, I decided two days ago, I'm not going back. I'm like, "I'm not going back." I'll go back to post things. I'm never reading it anymore. I'll find my news. You know, people send me enough stuff as it is. My friends send me things. I don't have to click on them, but I know what's going on, like what craziness is happening.

Raul Bilecky 1:53:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:53:03 You just feel better-

Raul Bilecky 1:53:04 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:53:04 ... when you don't do it, and-

Raul Bilecky 1:53:07 I've been sucked into the, the, the Naz-

Joe Rogan 1:53:09 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 1:53:09 ... the Nazca mummies thing sucked me into the back and forth on, on X, and I, and-

Joe Rogan 1:53:14 It's toxic.

Raul Bilecky 1:53:15 This shit is so toxic, man.

Joe Rogan 1:53:16 So toxic.

Raul Bilecky 1:53:17 So toxic, and, and it's like, at the end of the day, people are going... Peop- Look, you can have all the evidence saying this one thing, and everybody agrees. You're gonna have this group that is like, "Well, no, for this reason," and then, uh, and it's the same thing on the other side, too.

Joe Rogan 1:53:33 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:53:33 And so it's just this, this, um... [inhales] I, social media is this wei- what I'm, what I'm saying is it's just this weird loop of confirmation bias and, and-

Joe Rogan 1:53:44 And bitchiness and anger-

Raul Bilecky 1:53:45 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:53:45 ... and arguments and infighting and attacks, and I just think that it's altering the collective psychological foundation of our society.

Raul Bilecky 1:53:57 I agree with you.

Joe Rogan 1:53:58 And that's what's weird, and that's what makes sense when you see, like, crazy protests and crazy people online. It's like everyone's getting... There's something that's happening to them. Well, what's this one thing that exists with everybody? It's social media use.

Raul Bilecky 1:54:14 Yep, and [inhales] and I, and I think, I, I don't know, l- like I, I've... [chuckles] It's, it's, it's hard. I try to stay away, and then I found myself, like last week, after I made, like these videos, just, just for the social media s- sphere as an example, like I was getting pulled into it. I felt myself, as somebody who has not engaged that much, I, I was like, "Something has shifted," you know? And like I was ready to get defensive-

Joe Rogan 1:54:43 Mm

Raul Bilecky 1:54:43 ... and, and, and, and take things personally. And I'm like, "This is-

Joe Rogan 1:54:46 Yep, and attack back.

Raul Bilecky 1:54:47 And attack back.

Joe Rogan 1:54:48 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:54:48 And I was like, "This is just continuing the cycle, and I don't want that. I don't want that in my life. I don't need any of that." So I just stopped, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:54:55 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:54:55 And, and but the level of defensiveness, the le- level of attacks, the level of... And it's not even, at some points, it's not even just taking things personally. The attacks are personal sometimes. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:55:06 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:55:06 So it's like, what are you supposed to do, other than not engage?

Joe Rogan 1:55:11 Yeah, you can't engage. I say post and ghost.

Raul Bilecky 1:55:14 Yeah. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:55:14 That's my strategy.

Raul Bilecky 1:55:15 I like that. I like it. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:55:15 That's my strategy. And then even then, I'm telling people to stay off of it, so they're not even gonna read my stuff. Like, [laughs] -

Raul Bilecky 1:55:21 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:55:21 ... they're listening to me, but that's okay. It's okay. It's like you find out enough, you find out about the important things and find out about shows that you enjoy, and then you subscribe.... and then when new episodes come out, you're like, "Ooh!"

Raul Bilecky 1:55:33 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:55:33 You know? And so that's what I've been doing, and it's w- it's a much healthier way. Like, um, the one thing that doesn't... And Jelly Roll was telling me this, like, he, you know, he got off also. He, he had no phone for, like, 18 months. No phone at all.

Raul Bilecky 1:55:46 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:55:46 It was crazy. [laughs]

Raul Bilecky 1:55:47 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:55:47 Yeah. Like, I'd contact-

Raul Bilecky 1:55:48 Good for him

Joe Rogan 1:55:48 ... him through his guy that was running his social media, and I'm like-

Raul Bilecky 1:55:52 Sounds like a healthy choice [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:55:53 ... "Tell, tell Jelly I love him. Tell him I say what's up." And then, um, recently, he got a phone, like, over the last f- few months, and only uses YouTube. He's like, "My YouTube," he goes, "I learn things. I get interested in things, " my... And that's how I feel, too. Like, I really enjoy YouTube. I, I... There's so much inter- interesting content on YouTube about everything. I mean, it's just like-

Raul Bilecky 1:56:15 We're living in a, the... I mean, this is a, an incredible age where... I mean, I feel fortunate for what, what I'm doing, that there, there's an audience for it, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:56:25 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 1:56:26 And, and, and there's a platform that can allow that to have, have some reach, because some stuff deserves to reach, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:56:31 Well, what you're doing is very important. It's very important. Just the fact that you are the first guy to get media of that, those structures, that's crazy, man. I mean, it's really kind of crazy. You're a video editor. Two years ago, you decided to do this. You're the first guy who's documenting these things, and then we're showing millions of people right now?

Raul Bilecky 1:56:53 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:56:53 Kinda nuts. Like, how few people know that there was some kind of a complex society that understood the equinoxes, pointing their structure toward it, and not just building them with mud and bricks-

Raul Bilecky 1:57:05 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:57:05 ... but carving it out of the-

Raul Bilecky 1:57:08 [laughs] Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:57:08 ... bedrock in a, a similar shape over and over and over again.

Raul Bilecky 1:57:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57:13 And that's just what you found.

Raul Bilecky 1:57:15 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:57:15 Like, imagine how much hasn't been found.

Raul Bilecky 1:57:18 Dude, you just look at the aerial stuff, and it... I mean, i- Joe, I can't... Th- this just, that's just the tip of the iceberg, man-

Joe Rogan 1:57:26 Right

Raul Bilecky 1:57:26 ... like, of the, of the content that... I mean, I'm going to places in the middle of the desert and seeing an adobe wall peek out at this one little section, and then I put the drone in the air, and you can see the outline of this whole structure, just a little bump in the sand.

Joe Rogan 1:57:43 And no one even knows it's there.

Raul Bilecky 1:57:44 No one even knows it's there.

Joe Rogan 1:57:46 What happened to all those people? That's what's nuts.

Raul Bilecky 1:57:48 Dude, that's the, that's the th- like, when I say cradle of civilization, I mean, this was out of... whatever is bigger than a cradle. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:57:58 Well, that's what makes sense, right? Because if you think about the Ice Age, and if all this stuff is pre-Ice Age or during the Ice Age, that area is not covered in ice, and it's one of the few areas around the equator that's not fucked up, and it's one of the few areas where people can thrive. So it really makes sense-

Raul Bilecky 1:58:15 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:58:15 ... that that would be the area where civilization would not just thrive, but reach very high levels of sophistication, where they're able to carve into the bedrock-

Raul Bilecky 1:58:23 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:58:23 ... these massive pyramid structures.

Raul Bilecky 1:58:25 There's interesting evidence that, um... I forgot. I was watching, it was on, like, Discovery or Nat Geo or something, but there's evidence in, in, like, the Ocucaje Desert. I mean, th- they're finding... Another dark trafficking, uh, illegal trafficking web is, like, the, the sale of fossils, 'cause they're finding whales in the Ocucaje Desert, and-

Speaker 1:58:48 Brings me to... I was waiting to find a good point for this. They found that they were using whale vertebrae as stools.

Joe Rogan 1:58:54 [laughs]

Speaker 1:58:55 So they found this giant-

Joe Rogan 1:58:56 Dude, I want those for my bar.

Raul Bilecky 1:58:57 Dude, that's awesome. I did not know that.

Speaker 1:58:59 So looking this up, in 2023, they found what could be dubbed the most heaviest or the heaviest animal ever.

Raul Bilecky 1:59:06 I've been in-

Joe Rogan 1:59:07 Whoa!

Raul Bilecky 1:59:07 Yeah, I've been in touch with that guy's nephew.

Speaker 1:59:09 Colossal blue whale found outside of Peru. Two-

Joe Rogan 1:59:13 Each vertebrae weighs 220 pounds.

Speaker 1:59:16 Yeah, the whole thing with... The ones they found, 200 tons.

Joe Rogan 1:59:20 [laughs]

Speaker 1:59:22 And so, like, as you were just saying, if they're not buried under tons of ice-

Joe Rogan 1:59:25 [laughs]

Speaker 1:59:25 ... then these people could, in theory, have found, you know, lots of these giant-

Joe Rogan 1:59:29 Holy shit!

Raul Bilecky 1:59:30 In the desert, yeah.

Speaker 1:59:31 Something else I'm stumbling across, I didn't get into it.

Joe Rogan 1:59:33 S-

Speaker 1:59:33 Blue, blue whale poop has apparently got some- something interesting to it. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:59:38 What's the deal with blue whale poop?

Speaker 1:59:39 I don't know. That's why I didn't really get into it.

Joe Rogan 1:59:40 [laughs] Jamie, how do you go on these deep dives in the middle of a podcast?

Raul Bilecky 1:59:44 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:59:44 Jamie, you're a fucking wizard, dude.

Speaker 1:59:45 You just start seeing stuff, like, the-

Joe Rogan 1:59:47 Whoa! [mouths fart]

Speaker 1:59:48 ... having a poop, but like-

Joe Rogan 1:59:49 Look at that.

Raul Bilecky 1:59:50 Neon green?

Speaker 1:59:52 W- I, I'm just imagining these giant 200-ton-

Joe Rogan 1:59:55 Poops

Speaker 1:59:56 ... poops, and then what you could... I don't know. It's red?

Joe Rogan 1:59:59 Ew!

Raul Bilecky 1:59:59 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:59:59 God, what are these people doing with the poop?

Speaker 2:00:01 They also think that they could have been eating in a different way. They're just s- uh, sweeping up shrimp and shit from the bottom-

Joe Rogan 2:00:07 Right

Speaker 2:00:07 ... of the ocean.

Joe Rogan 2:00:09 Right.

Speaker 2:00:09 I'm just, like, picturing what this looked like, you know, in the year zero, where there's a bunch of giant whale bones all over the coast. And who knows what other octopus or whatever the fuck else.

Raul Bilecky 2:00:19 And what happens to that poop when it fossilizes, you know? But no, they're finding the... They're fi- I mean, there is a, a dark web of trafficking for looking for stuff in the Ocuca- Ocucaje Desert, where there, where all these prehistoric animal bones are. They've found dinosaurs and stuff there, too.

Joe Rogan 2:00:35 And again, it's, is it just wealthy people that want it for their homes? Is that what it is?

Raul Bilecky 2:00:40 Um, the, the stuff I've seen, it's... I mean, really, that guy and a few other people just kind of going out there illegally, looking for stuff. Um-

Joe Rogan 2:00:49 Right, but it has to be valuable for them to be willing to do this, right?

Raul Bilecky 2:00:52 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:00:52 So who's buying it?

Raul Bilecky 2:00:54 Wealthy oligarchs. I don't know. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:00:56 Where are these fucking people? I never met one of them that has some stuff like that.

Raul Bilecky 2:00:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:00 I wanna go over someone's house, like, "Hey, you wanna see some shit?" Like-

Raul Bilecky 2:01:02 You got a whole museum right there, like [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:01:05 That's probably how you wind up on a list.

Raul Bilecky 2:01:08 But, I mean, it's, uh... There's still, there's still so much out there, and I mean, if I... Just, like, so- some of the structures I was talking about, like, you literally see a whole adobe wall. You see a whole temple complex. You see the remnants of a circular plaza. Um, I mean, there's an- there's another, uh... If you go to the undocumented temple on the s- on the spreadsheet-... this is undocumented. No Ministry of Culture sign, it's not on the Ministry of Culture's database of archaeological sites.

Joe Rogan 2:01:41 How'd you find it?

Raul Bilecky 2:01:43 Using Google Earth.

Joe Rogan 2:01:44 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 2:01:45 And so here's the thing. All right, so circling back, we had that Norte Chico culture with the sunken plazas way down here. We have this-

Speaker 2:01:53 I'll just pause. Go ahead.

Raul Bilecky 2:01:54 So that- well, that's, that's what I saw on Google Earth.

Joe Rogan 2:01:58 No, go ahead, continue what you were saying.

Raul Bilecky 2:01:59 Okay. So, so you have the Caral Supe culture down here, and then you have the... They found that sunken plaza underneath archaeological sites in Casma, way up here. So you have these two different-- And they're saying they were separate cultures. I think they were the same.

Joe Rogan 2:02:16 How far apart are they?

Raul Bilecky 2:02:18 200 kilometers or miles, I forget. Uh, so what I was like, I was like: "Well, is there a connection between these two?" So I looked in the valleys in between, and I found this, with a sunken c- a temple, with a sunken circular plaza. So you just have them-

Joe Rogan 2:02:33 You found it.

Raul Bilecky 2:02:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:02:33 Found it on Google Earth.

Raul Bilecky 2:02:34 Yeah. And then, and then I went, and I needed help from one of the guys in the field to point... And that, there's a, a lot of the people in these pueblos, like, they'll know... Every now and then, you'll get lucky, and someone knows the history. Every now and then. More often than not, it's, "Yeah, there's some ruins right over there," and that's it. That's the extent-

Joe Rogan 2:02:53 Mm

Raul Bilecky 2:02:53 ... that's the extent of their knowledge. Um, and so th- that, that was one of these occasions, where the guy was like, "If you just go this way, and that way," and I... 'Cause I was looking for it. I was- I had a pin on my map, but I was getting lost. So I go, and I find this place, and lo and behold, it's a sunken circular plaza, temple structure. I go up on top. There's pottery there. You can see where the wa- where the huaqueros have dug things out. There's walls, and it's just unexcavated. Nobody's surveyed it. There's no documentation of it. It's just there.

Joe Rogan 2:03:26 Wow. [laughing] Can I see it?

Raul Bilecky 2:03:32 So that's what I saw, um-

Joe Rogan 2:03:33 This is what you saw on Google Earth?

Raul Bilecky 2:03:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:03:35 Okay. And so you're just looking in between these two areas, and-

Raul Bilecky 2:03:40 Oh, and it's also facing north-northeast, too. That also told me-

Joe Rogan 2:03:43 Mm

Raul Bilecky 2:03:43 ... um, that it was probably something.

Joe Rogan 2:03:47 Okay, and then-

Raul Bilecky 2:03:48 But-

Joe Rogan 2:03:48 ... you see this? This you find on Google Earth?

Raul Bilecky 2:03:49 Yeah, that's r- that's right next to it.

Joe Rogan 2:03:52 And then you went.

Raul Bilecky 2:03:52 And then I went. Um-

Joe Rogan 2:03:53 What, are you renting a car? How the fuck are you doing this?

Raul Bilecky 2:03:55 Yeah. Dude. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:03:57 What, what happens when you bring these cars back? They're like, "Where did you go?"

Raul Bilecky 2:04:00 Dude, they... Yeah. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:04:02 [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 2:04:02 I have some pictures of driving out in the desert, man, like...

Joe Rogan 2:04:06 [chuckles] Okay, so this guy's helping you?

Raul Bilecky 2:04:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:09 Is this the guy a local?

Raul Bilecky 2:04:11 Yeah, he was just working in the field there.

Joe Rogan 2:04:13 Okay, so these are the fields.

Raul Bilecky 2:04:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:04:16 And he tells you where this stuff is-

Raul Bilecky 2:04:17 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:04:17 ... so all the locals know-

Raul Bilecky 2:04:19 They know

Joe Rogan 2:04:19 ... where this stuff is.

Raul Bilecky 2:04:20 And then, uh, pretty soon, I start walking up to it.

Joe Rogan 2:04:24 Mm. And this is completely undocumented?

Raul Bilecky 2:04:27 And it's... You can see the plaza there.

Joe Rogan 2:04:29 Mm-hmm.

Raul Bilecky 2:04:30 Um, it's all rubble, so so- something happened, some, some earthquake or... So I'm walking up to the top of it, and then, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:04:40 So right now, it just looks like rubble. It doesn't even look like it was a building-

Raul Bilecky 2:04:43 Right

Joe Rogan 2:04:44 ... from the ground, at least.

Raul Bilecky 2:04:45 Exa- And, and half, uh, so many places, I'm, like, standing right in the middle of the, right in the middle of a site. I don't even know until I put the drone in the air.

Joe Rogan 2:04:53 Oh.

Raul Bilecky 2:04:55 I think it's coming up here. You'll see a, uh... Let's see. Should, should come up here shortly. I fi- There you go.

Joe Rogan 2:05:07 Okay.

Raul Bilecky 2:05:08 So-

Joe Rogan 2:05:09 Clearly.

Raul Bilecky 2:05:11 Underneath all of that is rooms.

Joe Rogan 2:05:13 Right. So you see the bricks.

Raul Bilecky 2:05:17 A piece of pottery some of the huaqueros ca- took out.

Joe Rogan 2:05:21 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 2:05:21 But that was, that was evidence to me that, that, uh... So underneath this whole thing are walls, and chambers-

Joe Rogan 2:05:28 Wow

Raul Bilecky 2:05:28 ... and rooms.

Joe Rogan 2:05:30 And you just found this on Google Earth?

Raul Bilecky 2:05:32 And it's the same style as that Caral Supe culture, the early one from, you know, 3,000 to 4,000 years ago.

Joe Rogan 2:05:43 It's just, it's just so hard to believe that this is unexplored, and not just that, undocumented-

Raul Bilecky 2:05:50 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:05:50 ... and that you just find it on Google. Thank God for... Shout out to Google Earth.

Raul Bilecky 2:05:53 [laughing] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:05:54 You know? Google Earth deserves some props.

Raul Bilecky 2:05:56 I mean, seriously, yeah. Uh, I mean-

Joe Rogan 2:05:59 Crazy.

Raul Bilecky 2:05:59 I-

Joe Rogan 2:05:59 I mean, who would have ever thought?

Raul Bilecky 2:06:01 People asked if I used, like, advanced satellite stuff, and I've only used Google Earth so far.

Joe Rogan 2:06:06 Look at this. Clearly, some sort of a civilization was there that just got obliterated.

Raul Bilecky 2:06:14 So this was weird. I don't, I don't know, like, there was just a cactus in the middle of it all. It was very strange. I don't know. I still don't-

Joe Rogan 2:06:23 Cactus are tough

Raul Bilecky 2:06:23 ... I still don't know what to make of that.

Joe Rogan 2:06:25 They can grow anywhere. That's what's weird about it, but it is weird there's only one.

Raul Bilecky 2:06:28 Yeah, i- in the middle of it.

Joe Rogan 2:06:30 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 2:06:31 But so there, there's pottery there-

Joe Rogan 2:06:33 Maybe it's some ancient...

Raul Bilecky 2:06:34 And I was wondering if it was the san- there was one more cactus, like, directly aligned with it. Um-

Joe Rogan 2:06:39 Other San Pedro cactus down there?

Raul Bilecky 2:06:41 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:06:41 So these people were probably doing something, something with the old psychedelic cactus.

Raul Bilecky 2:06:50 I've got a place to show you. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:06:51 'Cause San Pedro cactus is where you get mescaline, right?

Raul Bilecky 2:06:54 Yes.

Joe Rogan 2:06:55 Yeah. Makes sense that if they have these temples, and they have... If there's a pilgrimage, there's probably some sort of a psychedelic ritual involved. Look at this, man.

Raul Bilecky 2:07:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:09 What does it feel like to just find something that no one even knew existed like this? It's gotta be a trip.

Raul Bilecky 2:07:17 Um, like, "Thank God, I was right." [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:07:23 [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 2:07:24 "I spent 14 hours getting to this place," like- [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:07:27 Right.

Raul Bilecky 2:07:27 "Thank God, there was something." Um, but there, there have been times, too, where I'll, I'll get there, and it's, the sat- Google Earth hasn't updated itself, and there's a plantation planted over some of it-

Joe Rogan 2:07:38 Oh

Raul Bilecky 2:07:38 ... you know, and it's like-

Joe Rogan 2:07:40 ... Do you ask the people, like, what used to be here?

Raul Bilecky 2:07:43 Um, if there's people around.

Joe Rogan 2:07:45 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 2:07:45 I mean, sometimes. Uh, like I said, it's, it's- you can tell- you can kind of tell when it's corporate. The infrastructure in the area is different. But, but that's the other thing, there's, there's nobody monitoring this. I... And I was like, "W- what's the solution? Do you pay somebody to call the Ministry of Culture when somebody's coming in with bulldozers, leveling things?"

Joe Rogan 2:08:07 And what would they even do? Probably the people with the bulldozers, just pay them off.

Raul Bilecky 2:08:11 Either pay them off or... Dude, at, at that Caral site, Ruth Shady, the arche- she was shot by land traffickers. The archaeologist responsible for disco- land traffickers were trying to take over the site, and she was shot.

Joe Rogan 2:08:26 She was killed?

Raul Bilecky 2:08:26 She wasn't killed, she was shot. Uh, and I mean, she's-- as recent as a few years ago, it's like we're, we're still not getting protections from them. They sent us one security guard to patrol the perimeter. These land traffickers, man, like... And, and it's for agriculture. It's for agriculture, it's not for looting.

Joe Rogan 2:08:44 Wow.

Raul Bilecky 2:08:44 Looting is a happy by-product for them. It's for the agriculture.

Joe Rogan 2:08:49 Mm. "Squatters issue death threats to archaeologist who discovered oldest city in Americas."

Raul Bilecky 2:08:55 The oldest city in the Americas, and you're getting one rent-a-cop?

Joe Rogan 2:08:59 Wow! "They called the site's lawyers and said that if he continued to protect me, they would kill him along with me, and bury us five meters below the ground." And she's 73. "They killed our dog as a warning." Oh, God.

Raul Bilecky 2:09:16 They actually, when... I, I think it was... There was-- 'cause, 'cause when they excavate, they do it in seasons and stuff, and there was one season where, like, land traffickers had started building on part of the site, and in, in, in the off-season from digging, so they had to deal with all of that. I mean, it's, it's crazy. It's like the Wild West, man. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:09:34 Wow. Um, any other sites to show us that are-

Raul Bilecky 2:09:37 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:09:38 ... particularly compelling?

Raul Bilecky 2:09:39 Uh, I mean, dude, there's-

Joe Rogan 2:09:40 I know.

Raul Bilecky 2:09:41 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:09:41 We could go on forever, but-

Raul Bilecky 2:09:43 Uh, if you look at, uh, Chavin, uh, C-H-A... It's on the, uh, just on the media hard drive. So we're talking about underground structures, and hallucinogens, and stuff like that. This place, Chavin.

Joe Rogan 2:09:59 So-

Raul Bilecky 2:09:59 Now, this is a known archaeological site.

Joe Rogan 2:10:01 And how old is this place?

Raul Bilecky 2:10:02 Uh, I think 2000 A- right around zero.

Joe Rogan 2:10:06 Whoa! Look how far down it goes.

Raul Bilecky 2:10:08 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:10:08 How deep does it go? This is nuts.

Raul Bilecky 2:10:11 Right? And this is just-

Joe Rogan 2:10:13 Whoa!

Raul Bilecky 2:10:13 ... one part of it.

Joe Rogan 2:10:16 Whoa. And this is 2,000 years old, at least?

Raul Bilecky 2:10:20 At least.

Joe Rogan 2:10:22 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 2:10:22 So they wouldn't, they won't let you film in the other section. It kind of looks like this. Um, but it-

Joe Rogan 2:10:29 Why won't they let you film there?

Raul Bilecky 2:10:30 'Cause there's something called the Lanzón Monolith, and if you look that up, Jamie, uh, L-A-N-Z-O-N Monolith. So that's it. So they won't let you film in there, because too many people go in there and take pictures, and the flash supposedly... So they just- yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:10:53 The flash?

Raul Bilecky 2:10:54 Yeah, it... Dude, but when I went in there, the security guard was right behind me the whole time. He, he, he knew I was gonna try to take a picture.

Joe Rogan 2:11:00 Yeah, but you can take a picture with no flash now, especially-

Raul Bilecky 2:11:02 You-

Joe Rogan 2:11:02 ... with, like, the new iPhones and Samsung phones, you could take some really high-resolution photos.

Raul Bilecky 2:11:08 The guard said not enough people know how to turn it off on their phone.

Joe Rogan 2:11:12 Oh, boy.

Raul Bilecky 2:11:13 So, but when you walk in-

Joe Rogan 2:11:15 The flash is fucking it up? That seems crazy.

Raul Bilecky 2:11:17 It- yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:18 That seems like voodoo, doesn't it?

Raul Bilecky 2:11:20 Yeah, it-

Joe Rogan 2:11:21 Doesn't it? Does that mean-

Speaker 2:11:22 It could do it to paint and stuff, but-

Joe Rogan 2:11:23 Come on, there's no paint on that fucking thing

Speaker 2:11:25 ... Joe Rogan thinks crazy.

Raul Bilecky 2:11:26 And, and it's behind a piece of plexiglass, too.

Joe Rogan 2:11:28 That sounds like they're just control freaks. Like, fuck off, dude.

Speaker 2:11:31 Yeah, they make a reason, for sure, just to tell people to fuck off.

Raul Bilecky 2:11:33 But so, so the whole-

Joe Rogan 2:11:34 So okay, so here's this thing

Raul Bilecky 2:11:35 ... So the whole thing about this place, you saw how deep we went underground.

Joe Rogan 2:11:37 Right.

Raul Bilecky 2:11:38 It's in a comparable place with these hallways and, and... And Joe, I, like, completely stone-cold sober-

Joe Rogan 2:11:45 That's what it looks like

Raul Bilecky 2:11:46 ... as soon as I walked in underground, something hits you. So it, it's... The air is different. So [chuckles] I... Dude, I don't, I don't know how to describe it. It's-

Joe Rogan 2:11:58 And how'd you feel?

Raul Bilecky 2:12:01 [exhaling] Lighter and a little messed up in the head, man.

Joe Rogan 2:12:05 Really?

Raul Bilecky 2:12:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:12:06 Do you think it's a lack of oxygen?

Raul Bilecky 2:12:09 It's possible.

Joe Rogan 2:12:10 'Cause it seems like you're deep, deep, deep underground, probably limited oxygen, because you got these caverns and-

Raul Bilecky 2:12:16 Could be

Joe Rogan 2:12:16 ... just got holes to the top.

Raul Bilecky 2:12:18 I mean, I honestly, I, I wonder if it's built on some sort of, I, I don't know, like the, like the-

Joe Rogan 2:12:24 Sacred energy site

Raul Bilecky 2:12:24 ... Greek sacred energy or Delphi with the gases or something like that.

Joe Rogan 2:12:29 Oh.

Raul Bilecky 2:12:29 I, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 2:12:29 You're getting gassed in there? [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 2:12:32 I... All I know is that when you, when you go in, what-

Joe Rogan 2:12:34 Show me that, that totem again, that monolith.

Speaker 2:12:36 Oh, sure.

Raul Bilecky 2:12:37 What they found is, um, they found evidence of rituals happening there.

Joe Rogan 2:12:42 Mm.

Raul Bilecky 2:12:42 Like plates with, uh, with hallucinogenic plants or substances.

Joe Rogan 2:12:47 Ah.

Raul Bilecky 2:12:47 So people were going down there to do these rituals, and, dude, this spa- I mean, if you're gonna go on a trip, that's the place to do it.

Joe Rogan 2:12:55 Right.

Raul Bilecky 2:12:55 Like, that's... It's, it's just, you're, you're in an enclosed space. The acoustics are so weird.

Joe Rogan 2:13:02 Mm-hmm.

Raul Bilecky 2:13:02 It's, it's trippy, man.

Joe Rogan 2:13:04 What is that, uh, image on that thing?

Speaker 2:13:06 Jaguar, it said.

Joe Rogan 2:13:07 It's a jaguar?

Raul Bilecky 2:13:08 There's a, there's a whole bunch of imagery here. That's, like, the fanged... So for a while, they thought, they thought this culture, the Chavin culture, was responsible for the, the onset of religion in Peru. The Chavin, they called it the Mother Culture for decades. And you see this fanged deity, uh, Dr Barnhart talks about it a lot, this jaguar-looking deity. Um, they thought it came from there, but there's actually places that I went to where you see it on the coast fur- uh, older, so it actually kind of flips that whole... It's not the Mother Culture. Um-... but their influence and their reach was extreme throughout the, throughout the Andean world. So they were responsible for th- that's when, like, religion took, and iconography got a major influx, right after Chavín culture. They're- they had it before, but not like this. Um, so that's what's, that's what's on that statue.

Joe Rogan 2:14:06 Wow!

Raul Bilecky 2:14:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:07 And s- it's just so ridiculous they won't let you take a picture 'cause of the flash. That's so good- somebody should talk to them and go, "Hey, man, shut the fuck up." [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 2:14:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:16 "That flash doesn't do anything." Devotees would be led into the maze of pitch-black tunnels, eventually coming face to face with the sculpture. The worshiiper- worshipper's disorientation, in addition to the hallucinogenic effects of the San Pedro cactus they were given before entering, only heightened the visual and psychological impact of the sculpture. Wow.

Raul Bilecky 2:14:38 I mean, that's... [exhales]

Joe Rogan 2:14:40 God, people are weird.

Speaker 2:14:42 They must have had it lit up with fire or something fucking sweet.

Joe Rogan 2:14:44 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 2:14:45 Dude, it w- it was, it... Just going in there stone-cold sober and feeling affected, I can only imagine what it was like being on San Pedro going in.

Joe Rogan 2:14:53 Is that the weirdest place that you've been to in Peru?

Raul Bilecky 2:14:56 Um.

Joe Rogan 2:14:59 Sacsayhuamán seems to me to be the m- the most bizarre because just the size of the stones.

Raul Bilecky 2:15:05 Oh, yeah. Oh, I mean-

Joe Rogan 2:15:07 Like, how? How?

Raul Bilecky 2:15:10 You know-

Joe Rogan 2:15:12 I mean, how? [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 2:15:13 [laughing] I don't know, man.

Joe Rogan 2:15:13 What are you guys doing? How'd you do this? How'd you figure out to make them interlocking in a way that if there's a seismic impact, they stay put? How?

Raul Bilecky 2:15:22 And, and how-

Joe Rogan 2:15:23 How'd you get them there?

Raul Bilecky 2:15:24 How do they look like marshmallow... I mean-

Joe Rogan 2:15:25 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 2:15:26 ... I li- I-

Joe Rogan 2:15:26 Why are they... Like, looks like they're melted.

Raul Bilecky 2:15:29 I've gone on some deep dives. It's funny on that.

Joe Rogan 2:15:31 Yeah, look at that. Fuck, man! The big ones on the bottom, like, how?

Raul Bilecky 2:15:36 I don't-

Joe Rogan 2:15:38 What, and wh- the- it's the style of them, too, which is so different, where, as you said, it looks like marshmallows. Like they're melted into place almost. Like, look at that one big one in the center.

Raul Bilecky 2:15:49 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:15:49 What the hell is that? How big is that?

Raul Bilecky 2:15:51 Uh, I, I forget, but they go up to 200 tons, I think.

Joe Rogan 2:15:54 That's gotta be bigger than 200 tons, don't you think?

Raul Bilecky 2:15:57 Probably. I, I don't, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:15:58 Look how small those people are, and those people in the foreground. Get those people right up next to that thing-

Raul Bilecky 2:16:04 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:16:04 ... they'd be tiny. Well, maybe it is 200 tons. I don't know, but either way-

Raul Bilecky 2:16:08 But like-

Joe Rogan 2:16:08 Fucking nuts.

Raul Bilecky 2:16:09 Is it-

Joe Rogan 2:16:09 That one up there, yeah.

Raul Bilecky 2:16:10 How, uh, you know, how rounded these things are-

Joe Rogan 2:16:12 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 2:16:12 ... and you can't get a piece of paper. The only way they've been dislodged is because of earthquakes. I mean, like, it's...

Joe Rogan 2:16:19 Bro, look at the size of that-

Raul Bilecky 2:16:21 So-

Joe Rogan 2:16:21 ... and look at the way they interlock.

Raul Bilecky 2:16:24 You can tell when you get up close, there's, there is this reddish residue. Oh, uh, we can, [chuckles] uh, there's so much, man. [chuckles] Uh, you can see there, the, there's often reddish, reddish residue, like-

Joe Rogan 2:16:40 So they were painted at one point in time?

Raul Bilecky 2:16:42 No, uh, I think it was-

Joe Rogan 2:16:44 Clay?

Raul Bilecky 2:16:44 ... in, in the Spa- The Indigenous people will tell you that, and actually Percy Fawcett wrote about it in his journals, too, like, this, this bird that would take a leaf, a red leaf, and peck it into the rock, and a- after a little bit of time, it would create a hole in the rock. Like, it would help kind of melt the stone. Actually, the guy from the video, el, um, that Unregistered Megalithic site told me the same story. Uh-

Joe Rogan 2:17:09 Okay, I know what you're talking about.

Raul Bilecky 2:17:10 Right, and-

Joe Rogan 2:17:10 There's a specific type of plant that has, like, an acid to it.

Raul Bilecky 2:17:15 An acid, uh, and I've started to... I, I, I like Dr Barnhart's theory, um, and there's also a paper on it, a peer-reviewed paper by Helmut Tributsch, where he talks about, look, if you mix, if you mix pyrite from the offshoot of one of these Incan mines with this, with this plant-ish material, you can create, like, an acid that will slightly deform the stone.

Joe Rogan 2:17:42 So maybe you would set the stones in place that way? "Secrets to so- of Softened Stone-

Speaker 2:17:48 This is Facebook

Joe Rogan 2:17:48 ... The Lost Techniques of the Inca." [chuckles] From Facebook, so you know it's true.

Raul Bilecky 2:17:51 No, no, no.

Joe Rogan 2:17:51 [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 2:17:51 But Fawcett, Fawcett-

Joe Rogan 2:17:52 You know.

Raul Bilecky 2:17:53 George Lira was, um... I did, I did a whole- Some of my early videos, man, are like research papers. [chuckles] Like, I went, I went on, on a deep dive with all this, and the Spanish chroniclers talk about seeing gold in between, uh, some of the stones. But this guy also, Helmut Tributsch, who wrote the paper, says, "What if it wasn't gold? What if it was pyrite fusing the stones, helping to fuse the stones together with this paste?"

Joe Rogan 2:18:18 Hmm. Look what it says there. It says: "The technique to carve and state, uh, shape the stones remains a mystery. According to legends, the gods would have gifted the Incas two magical plants: coke," so coca leaves, "which allowed them to withstand pain and physical exhaustion, and another plant that allowed them to soften stones." Soften stones.

Raul Bilecky 2:18:40 But you see that red residue-

Joe Rogan 2:18:41 That also makes sense

Raul Bilecky 2:18:42 ... in between them.

Joe Rogan 2:18:42 They, they did so much work, they were all coked up.

Raul Bilecky 2:18:45 [chuckles] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:18:45 Fucking- [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 2:18:46 I got a funny-

Joe Rogan 2:18:46 Making these dope pyramids.

Raul Bilecky 2:18:48 When I was a kid, this woman-

Speaker 2:18:49 This was the picture I clicked on, but that didn't pop up well.

Joe Rogan 2:18:51 Oh, that can't be real.

Speaker 2:18:52 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 2:18:52 No, that's, um... I've seen that, and that's, uh, an art- artistic creation.

Joe Rogan 2:18:59 Hmm.

Raul Bilecky 2:19:00 If you pull up, uh... Let's, if- do you wanna stay on Cusco or go to one other place?

Joe Rogan 2:19:07 It's up to you, dog.

Raul Bilecky 2:19:08 All right.

Joe Rogan 2:19:08 Whatever you wanna do.

Raul Bilecky 2:19:09 Let's, let's go to, uh, Tunnels, Cusco.

Speaker 2:19:13 The video?

Raul Bilecky 2:19:13 Dude, this whole, this whole part of the Andes... Yeah, it's, um-

Speaker 2:19:18 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 2:19:20 There's tunnels everywhere, man. Like, and it's not just what they're doing.

Joe Rogan 2:19:26 So you're climbing down into this tunnel. Now, is this a naturally formed hole?

Raul Bilecky 2:19:31 Some of it.

Joe Rogan 2:19:32 Some of it? Okay.

Raul Bilecky 2:19:35 On the way out, you'll see when I- going in, there are steps. Those were actual steps that were built. But these things... Dude, I, you can't get to the, the end.... you can't find pe- uh, there, there are stories where kids get lost in these things and never found.

Joe Rogan 2:19:50 Oh, fuck! So, uh, again, these look like natural caves?

Raul Bilecky 2:19:55 Right. Some of them have been carved out, though.

Joe Rogan 2:19:57 So it's a combination of both?

Raul Bilecky 2:19:58 It's a combination.

Joe Rogan 2:19:59 So probably there were some natural caves-

Raul Bilecky 2:20:02 Yes

Joe Rogan 2:20:02 ... and then they started carving things out.

Raul Bilecky 2:20:04 Well, the whole thing-

Joe Rogan 2:20:05 Oh, wow! This gets weird

Raul Bilecky 2:20:05 ... the whole thing about it was-

Joe Rogan 2:20:06 This gets weird. So this is the steps?

Raul Bilecky 2:20:09 Yeah, coming up, uh, on, on the right. I mean, it just, it just go- keeps going on.

Joe Rogan 2:20:16 Oh, I'm not going in there. [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 2:20:18 There's the ste- there's the steps.

Joe Rogan 2:20:19 Jamie, can you imagine you and me outside the door going, "Uh-uh." [chuckles]

Speaker 2:20:22 You go first.

Joe Rogan 2:20:23 [chuckles] You go-

Speaker 2:20:23 I'll follow you. [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 2:20:24 [chuckles] That's how my Ketchua guide was, man. He was just filming me. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:20:28 [chuckles] Fuck you, bro. I'm not going in there.

Raul Bilecky 2:20:30 I was like, "I'll go in." [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:20:31 There's probably demons in there. That's like that movie... What was that movie? The Descent?

Raul Bilecky 2:20:35 The Descent.

Joe Rogan 2:20:35 Yeah, that movie is great!

Raul Bilecky 2:20:36 Dude, that was like the- dude, I love that movie.

Joe Rogan 2:20:38 That movie is great.

Raul Bilecky 2:20:39 I watched it a while ago. It was like 2005. That's wild.

Joe Rogan 2:20:42 That's an old movie.

Raul Bilecky 2:20:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:20:43 Yeah. They did a Descent Two. It's not as good.

Raul Bilecky 2:20:45 Yeah. This is apparently the-

Joe Rogan 2:20:46 It's okay. It's not, it's not the best, but this is- Descent One was awesome.

Raul Bilecky 2:20:50 Yeah. Well, one of the best horror flicks I've ever seen.

Joe Rogan 2:20:53 Yeah. And there's another one, huh?

Raul Bilecky 2:20:55 This is-

Joe Rogan 2:20:55 Oh, fuck, that hole!

Raul Bilecky 2:20:57 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:20:57 Did you go in there? Please tell me you haven't been in there.

Raul Bilecky 2:20:59 Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:20:59 Oh, Jesus, you went in there.

Raul Bilecky 2:21:00 Of course I did, Joe. Of course I... [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:21:02 Well... [chuckles] With your Pillars of the Past shirt on.

Raul Bilecky 2:21:07 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:21:07 Oh, my God, dude, I don't even think I would fit in that hole.

Raul Bilecky 2:21:10 I got a little scared 'cause coming out wasn't, wasn't easy.

Joe Rogan 2:21:13 I was just reading about this guy who died in one of those holes. A guy was a, a cave crawler, and he got stuck trying to get out. He got in headfirst and then could not get out.

Raul Bilecky 2:21:24 And just- was just stuck.

Joe Rogan 2:21:25 Died there.

Raul Bilecky 2:21:26 Dude, like that? [chuckles] Like that?

Joe Rogan 2:21:28 He couldn't even scream, 'cause his chest was compressed.

Raul Bilecky 2:21:31 Oh, God. Yeah, I mean, there's some stuff I've done I'm not gonna do-

Joe Rogan 2:21:34 And then he was at an angle like this, you know, and just couldn't... There's no way to get back out.

Raul Bilecky 2:21:39 It's terrifying.

Joe Rogan 2:21:40 Ooh.

Raul Bilecky 2:21:40 That's terrifying.

Joe Rogan 2:21:41 You know how that never happens? You don't go in there.

Raul Bilecky 2:21:43 You don't go in. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:21:44 You don't go in there, you never dive in a cave. You never dive in a cave. [chuckles] Dive in a cave-

Raul Bilecky 2:21:47 I'll take that into consideration, man. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:21:51 [chuckles] All right, before we wrap this up, anything else you wanna show us?

Raul Bilecky 2:21:53 Uh, let... All right, one more site. Uh-

Joe Rogan 2:21:55 Okay.

Raul Bilecky 2:21:57 Uh, Chisneri, the C-H-I-S-

Speaker 2:22:01 Which one? There's four videos.

Raul Bilecky 2:22:03 Oh. Uh, let's just do the drone footage and then-

Speaker 2:22:06 Okay

Raul Bilecky 2:22:06 ... inside tombs. So this place, it- I had no idea places like this- it's just me and my guide. He's a-- Dude, the people I met on this, just by happenstance, he's, he's the president of the community there, the little campesino, and took 12 hours out of his day to walk me through this place.

Joe Rogan 2:22:26 Mm, that's cool. That's another build it and they will come thing, right?

Raul Bilecky 2:22:31 It really is.

Joe Rogan 2:22:32 Yeah, you just go out there and you'll find the right people, or they kill your dog. [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 2:22:37 [chuckles] Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:22:40 Okay.

Raul Bilecky 2:22:41 So this, this, like I, I-

Joe Rogan 2:22:42 Ooh, the paint's still on it.

Raul Bilecky 2:22:45 It's actually not paint. It's, uh, it's, it's mud. It's different colored mud.

Joe Rogan 2:22:49 Oh.

Raul Bilecky 2:22:50 That's what he said. So now we're gonna go... Now, in the, in the next video, uh, we're gonna walk up to them.

Joe Rogan 2:23:03 Mm, whoa! Skulls.

Speaker 2:23:06 The Sky People? Do you know-

Raul Bilecky 2:23:08 No, it, uh, the Chachapoyas, the, the Chachapoyas-

Joe Rogan 2:23:11 Okay

Raul Bilecky 2:23:11 ... were much further north.

Joe Rogan 2:23:13 These are the long-headed skulls.

Raul Bilecky 2:23:15 You see that skull? You see that skull, right?

Joe Rogan 2:23:16 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 2:23:16 This is in the Cusco region.

Joe Rogan 2:23:19 Wow! What the fuck, dude?

Raul Bilecky 2:23:23 Yeah, man.

Joe Rogan 2:23:23 Why are all these dead people in that hole? Whoa! What's going on in there?

Raul Bilecky 2:23:29 These were the- where they would bury their deceased.

Joe Rogan 2:23:32 They'd just chuck them in a hole?

Raul Bilecky 2:23:33 No, they- no, they were- they weren't like that. They were-

Joe Rogan 2:23:36 So this is all just looting?

Raul Bilecky 2:23:38 This is looting.

Joe Rogan 2:23:38 Oh, man.

Raul Bilecky 2:23:39 This is all looting.

Joe Rogan 2:23:39 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 2:23:40 That row-

Joe Rogan 2:23:41 Fucking skulls are everywhere. This is crazy.

Raul Bilecky 2:23:43 It's wild, man.

Joe Rogan 2:23:44 This is like a horror movie. This is like the beginning of a horror movie before it gets dark out.

Raul Bilecky 2:23:48 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:23:49 Right? The guys, these archaeologists-

Raul Bilecky 2:23:50 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:23:50 ... it's probably you. You're out there.

Raul Bilecky 2:23:53 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:23:53 In the movie, you bring a girl with you.

Speaker 2:23:55 You have to leave this place before the sun goes down.

Joe Rogan 2:23:57 100,000%. [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 2:24:01 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:24:01 Bro, you're gonna hear voices. You're gonna hear dead languages yelling-

Raul Bilecky 2:24:05 No, no camping in the- no camping in the valley. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:24:08 Oh, you'd have to be a gangster to fucking take a nap in there.

Speaker 2:24:11 [chuckles] Ghost Hunters should definitely go there and-

Joe Rogan 2:24:14 Oh, yeah. Get Sam and Colby to go down there. They're not-- I bet they won't do it.

Speaker 2:24:18 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:24:19 That's real ghosts.

Raul Bilecky 2:24:20 This is all from looting.

Joe Rogan 2:24:22 Wow! So they just dug these people up-

Speaker 2:24:25 Is that a back?

Joe Rogan 2:24:25 ... stole whatever. Yeah, that's a spine. Yeah. Fuck, man. God, there's so many bones. That's nuts.

Raul Bilecky 2:24:34 It, it's crazy, man.

Joe Rogan 2:24:36 That's nuts. Well, Raul, I'm happy. I'm so happy that you made that decision a couple of years ago to just follow this passion, and, uh, the content that you put out is really incredible. And the fact you've been able to find these sites that are heretofore undocumented, it's, it's really amazing, man.

Raul Bilecky 2:24:55 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 2:24:55 It's, it's amazing. I'm happy you're doing it, and, uh, I really enjoyed having you on. And, uh, for everybody who wants to watch, it's Pillars of the Past, it's on YouTube. Um, do you put videos up on X as well?

Raul Bilecky 2:25:07 I do. I've, I've started putting videos up on X and, um, you know, my w- website's gonna be up and running soon. It's gonna be a place if, uh... You know, if you find places and wanna put it on a map and, you know, if Jamie wants to comment on it, then he can comment on the pin you put. I'm trying to build something, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 2:25:24 Mm

Raul Bilecky 2:25:24 ... people send me stuff all the time.

Joe Rogan 2:25:25 Right.

Raul Bilecky 2:25:26 And, um-

Joe Rogan 2:25:26 Have some sort of a thriving community of people that are interested in the same thing.

Raul Bilecky 2:25:29 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 2:25:30 Well, there's a, there's an interest for this stuff now. I, I really credit Graham, Graham Hancock, I think because he was the real pioneer of this when people just thought he was a loon. I remember people would make fun of me for reading his book in the late '90s. They'd make fun of me.

Raul Bilecky 2:25:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:25:45 Like, "Where do you read this bullshit from? Why don't you go to a real history class?" Like-... That's no fun.

Raul Bilecky 2:25:50 No. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:25:50 This is fun. This is fun.

Raul Bilecky 2:25:52 No-

Joe Rogan 2:25:52 It's fun to think that we don't know what happened, but that something happened.

Raul Bilecky 2:25:56 And Graham puts in the work.

Joe Rogan 2:25:57 He does.

Raul Bilecky 2:25:57 I mean, I mean, the- you just look at the citation section, he's put in-- he puts in the work.

Joe Rogan 2:26:02 Of course. Yeah, he's an amazing human, you know, which is why they have to lie to discredit him. But, you know, when, when he put that material out, and then I think the Netflix show really started, started opening up the gates to people exploring this stuff more and, and just being fascinated by it, and then seeking out content like yours. And, you know, and there's d- we're really fortunate now, there's quite a few really good shows that are on YouTube that document this kind of stuff.

Raul Bilecky 2:26:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:26:31 And it's-- these are real mysteries. It-- there's real mysteries when it comes to human history, and, uh, in my-- to me, it's one of the most fascinating things.

Raul Bilecky 2:26:43 I agree with you.

Joe Rogan 2:26:44 I, I love it. So I-- thank you so much for doing what you do, and, uh, get out there again, and let's come back and do another one of these.

Raul Bilecky 2:26:51 And I, I would be happy to. And, uh, just a, just a few plugs-

Joe Rogan 2:26:55 Yeah, yeah, please

Raul Bilecky 2:26:56 ... uh, for, uh, I'll be speaking at a... Because of all this, which is just amazing. I was-- I still feel like everything's in its infancy, so I, I'm, I'm humbled by the opportunities that keep presenting themselves. But, like, the Quest for Ancient Civilizations conference, um, in Sedona, and then it's actually gonna be here.

Joe Rogan 2:27:12 Of course, it's in Sedona. [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 2:27:13 But it's gonna be here in Austin, too.

Joe Rogan 2:27:14 Of course, it's here, too. [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 2:27:16 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:27:17 Two kooky places

Raul Bilecky 2:27:18 ... ACL Live, I think is the-

Joe Rogan 2:27:19 Oh, nice.

Raul Bilecky 2:27:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:27:20 Okay.

Raul Bilecky 2:27:21 Uh, it's an amazing venue.

Joe Rogan 2:27:22 When's that?

Raul Bilecky 2:27:22 That's gonna be in October. Uh, and then I'm doing a tour with Mike Collins from Wandering Wolf in the Yucatan, and with Hugh Newman, we're doing a northern-

Joe Rogan 2:27:31 Let me ask you about that. What do you think about that Sage Wall? 'Cause he's the guy that goes over the Sage Wall. You think it's a natural formation?

Raul Bilecky 2:27:37 I think it's more likely, more like... The way I operate is, I'm- I, I tend to remain skeptical. I, I would like multiple pieces of evidence to be put together.

Joe Rogan 2:27:50 There's also similar things nearby that aren't as spectacular, that are natural, right?

Raul Bilecky 2:27:56 I believe so, yes.

Joe Rogan 2:27:57 And the, yeah, yeah-

Raul Bilecky 2:27:58 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:27:58 ... there's something about the geology of the area.

Raul Bilecky 2:28:00 And, and I found places like that in, in Peru as well. I mean, I'm waiting for-- They've done lidar studies o-o-of, of that stuff. Um, for me, just to have one, one wall, I need, I per- I personally need more than-

Joe Rogan 2:28:15 Right

Raul Bilecky 2:28:15 ... more than just that.

Joe Rogan 2:28:16 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 2:28:17 Um, and I mean, I found some of the stuff like that in Peru, and I'm very hesitant to say this is megalithic architecture.

Joe Rogan 2:28:24 There's also-

Raul Bilecky 2:28:24 It needs more study. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:28:25 For people that are interested in that, just to let you know, there's a lot of AI images online, and when you go to look for the Sage Wall, sometimes you're confronted with ones like, "Oh, my God, that for sure is man-made." But then it's not a real image.

Raul Bilecky 2:28:38 No.

Joe Rogan 2:28:38 Someone's created an image or doctored the image to make it look a little bit more man-made.

Raul Bilecky 2:28:43 I will say, I mean, Mike Collins has done a ton of work on it, so if you wanna, like, see-

Joe Rogan 2:28:47 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 2:28:47 ... the original footage, it's on his channel.

Joe Rogan 2:28:50 Very, very interesting foot- I mean, I go back and forth. You know?

Raul Bilecky 2:28:53 Yeah, I, I mean, that's-

Joe Rogan 2:28:54 Depending upon how old it is. So that's the thing, like, if you're talking about something that's 30,000 years old, maybe that's all that's left.

Raul Bilecky 2:29:00 I forget, he was saying... They found that it goes a lot deeper than it is.

Joe Rogan 2:29:04 Right.

Raul Bilecky 2:29:05 Something like that. So it's like, for me-

Joe Rogan 2:29:06 Which makes it more interesting.

Raul Bilecky 2:29:07 Which makes it more interesting, and I'm like-

Joe Rogan 2:29:09 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 2:29:09 ... I just, I, I, like, keep driving-- Like, let, let's see. Keep figuring it out.

Speaker 2:29:13 There's one in Texas, too, that I haven't found a good answer for called the Rockpile.

Joe Rogan 2:29:15 Yeah, I've heard about Texas.

Raul Bilecky 2:29:17 Rock-- I've heard of that, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:29:18 200 to 400,000-year-old wall?

Speaker 2:29:21 Well, that's-

Joe Rogan 2:29:21 Come on.

Speaker 2:29:21 I think a guy in 1925 claimed that, and probably-

Joe Rogan 2:29:24 Oh

Speaker 2:29:24 ... just got people to pay attention and come visit, but [clears throat] they... I don't, I don't have a good answer that I've come across on what it is or how old it is.

Joe Rogan 2:29:32 Go to that one below, to the right of your cursor.

Speaker 2:29:34 Right here?

Joe Rogan 2:29:35 To the right of it.

Speaker 2:29:36 Right here.

Joe Rogan 2:29:36 Right there, yeah. Look at that. Huh!

Raul Bilecky 2:29:39 I will say, though-

Joe Rogan 2:29:40 That could be a natural formation.

Raul Bilecky 2:29:42 They... I mean, the Earth, the Earth does a lot of weird things. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:29:46 Yeah.

Raul Bilecky 2:29:46 You know? [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:29:47 That's not, that's not convincing to me.

Speaker 2:29:49 I just, it's just interesting.

Joe Rogan 2:29:50 No, can I put, put it back up again, though? I... But I'm, I'm aware of it. I'm just like, I'm looking at that, "Extraterrestrial, shut the fuck up." [laughing] Extraterrestrials do a way better job. [laughing] They might have built the pyramids, they didn't build this. [laughing] Fuck out of here with shitty fucking scab labor.

Raul Bilecky 2:30:07 Cobble, cobblestones, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:30:07 Yeah, got non-union guys just came in. [laughing] "I'll do the job for cheap." [chuckles]

Raul Bilecky 2:30:13 Yeah. Well, maybe they got their laser beams, like-

Joe Rogan 2:30:14 Yeah

Raul Bilecky 2:30:15 ... all right.

Joe Rogan 2:30:15 Oh, wait a minute, that looks real.

Speaker 2:30:17 I think that's the guy found when they found it.

Joe Rogan 2:30:18 Oh, that looks like a wall.

Speaker 2:30:19 But this also... I've seen four versions of this picture, and one's in color.

Raul Bilecky 2:30:23 Dude, it's so hard nowadays to like-

Joe Rogan 2:30:25 I know.

Raul Bilecky 2:30:25 You've gotta put in some work to find the truth.

Joe Rogan 2:30:27 Yeah. That was, that's, that is weird. But that doesn't look real.

Speaker 2:30:34 Yeah, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 2:30:34 That looks like it's just the strata. Well, but it's not consistent all the way through. What the fuck do I know?

Speaker 2:30:39 Yeah, again, I don't even know what we're looking at.

Joe Rogan 2:30:40 Who knows? [laughing]

Raul Bilecky 2:30:42 That's, that's here in Texas, right?

Joe Rogan 2:30:43 Yes.

Raul Bilecky 2:30:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:30:44 Yeah. Maybe we'll go one day. Uh, Pillars of the Past, [upbeat music] YouTube, awesome. Thank you. Really appreciate you.

Speaker 2:30:51 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 2:30:51 It was a lot of fun today. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2:30:52 Appreciate it, brother. Thank you.

Joe Rogan 2:30:54 All right, bye, everybody. [upbeat music]