EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,027 words- 0:02 – 1:59
Cold open: voiceover meltdowns, Shatner bits, and Orson Welles as a cultural reference point
- JRJoe Rogan
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
- SPSpeaker
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat rock music] Come on, Roger.
- RARoger Avary
Put the headphones on?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, fuck it. Fuck it.
- RARoger Avary
Fuck it. Go for it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fuck it, we'll do it live.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, do it live!
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a classic.
- RARoger Avary
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a classic look behind the scenes. [laughs]
- RARoger Avary
[laughs] Do it live! Fuck it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Fucking cra- crazy people telling you the news. [laughs]
- RARoger Avary
Yeah. That, that's good, and the, the William Shatner one where, uh, you know, the, um, studio guy, you know, he says, uh, Shatner's doing some ADR for, uh, the cartoon, the Star Trek cartoon, and he says, uh, you know, he's uses the word sabotage.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
And he gets corrected by the, by the studio guy. He's like, "Uh, Bill, it's pronounced sabotage." "Please, don't correct me. It disgusts me. It sickens me."
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
"And you say sabotage; I say sabotage."
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
So I l- absolutely love William Shatner, especially-
- JRJoe Rogan
My favorite ones are the Orw- uh, excuse me. Uh, fuck. Why can't I remember his name? Um-
- RARoger Avary
Orson Welles
- JRJoe Rogan
... Rosebud. Orson Welles. Jesus Christ.
- RARoger Avary
Orson Welles.
- JRJoe Rogan
What happened?
- SPSpeaker
Now you start saying it.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know. What happened?
- RARoger Avary
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
My brain just said, "Nope. No access." When Orson Welles was doing the Gallo Wine commercials.
- RARoger Avary
Oh, yeah.
- 1:59 – 6:21
Citizen Kane’s technical ambition and how power (Hearst) can derail artists
- JRJoe Rogan
Orson Welles is a crazy story, right? Because when he made that movie, when he made Citizen Kane, which was about William Randolph Hearst-
- RARoger Avary
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... William Randolph Hearst essentially shut down one of the most talented guys alive at the time, shut down his career.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, because the movie was kind of an insult about... You know, the whole thing about Rosebud is that's the name of his girlfriend's clitoris.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, really?
- RARoger Avary
That, that was his nickname for her clitoris, and so Orson Welles was doing a kind of very, uh, uh, like, uh, uh, v- like, uh, he was jabbing at him in a very low-level way. Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, Rosebud.
- JRJoe Rogan
How did he know that that was the nickname of his girlfriend's clitoris?
- RARoger Avary
People in Hollywood know these things. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, boy. [laughs]
- RARoger Avary
Word gets around. Word gets around.
- JRJoe Rogan
I would keep that one just to her.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
Who told?
- RARoger Avary
Yeah. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy. But, I mean, if you go back to, like, War of Worlds and then Citizen Kane, I mean, this guy was a dynamo, and then they shut him down.
- RARoger Avary
Well, yeah, and he was doing things that nobody else would do. It's like he's like, "Oh, I want the camera down here, like, on the floor." And they're, "Well, we can't get the camera lens down that low," you know? Like, "What you're talking about is impossible to do." And so he would just grab a, like, a pickax and just start chopping away at the studio concrete and dig a hole in the ground so you could put the camera down that low.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, really?
- RARoger Avary
Yeah. He would, he was, uh, obsessed with getting a, a, a vision on screen that was, even today, is so advanced. There's a shot in the very beginning when, uh, young Kane is, like, a little kid, and he's out there playing with Rosebud. He's out there playing with the sled in the snow, and the camera is on him, and then it kind of starts pulling back, and it pulls through a window, and then we see his parents and the, uh, the trust attorney, and the camera keeps backing up all the way into the room. Well, to do that in a studio and to have all that snow and everything, you need so much light, but you also need a lot of light inside the, uh, because, uh, the exposure change. It's, like, an amazing, incredible, uh, d- dolly shot, a reverse tracking shot. It's fantastic.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what year did he do this, too?
- RARoger Avary
God, it was... [laughs] I, I don't know the exact year. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Citizen Kane has to be '40s, right?
- RARoger Avary
... it's the, Citizen Kane came out... Yeah, yeah, probably. It's, uh, yeah, it's in the 19... late '40s, I would think.
- JRJoe Rogan
[sighs]
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, late '40s.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that when it was, Jamie?
- RARoger Avary
Yeah. Tell us the-
- SPSpeaker
Well, uh, it should be on my... Yeah, '41 is when it came out.
- JRJoe Rogan
'41.
- 6:21 – 9:42
Touch of Evil’s opening shot and the lost craft of heavy analog filmmaking
- RARoger Avary
Y- y- you know, itYes and no. My favorite film of his is Touch of Evil, and there's this amazing shot in, with Charlton Heston where he's playing a Mexican, and he's got like this like pencil thin, uh, you know, mustache. This... And, uh, like Chuck Heston as a Mexican is fantastic, and then everybody's so sweaty in the movie, and it takes place in Mexico, but it's shot in Venice, California. And so the whole opening, which is this setting of a bomb in the trunk of a car, and then, yeah, here's the opening shot, and you can tell that it's actually downtown Venice. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And this is supposed to be Mexico?
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, this is supposed to be like a border town in Mexico. I don't know if it's Tijuana or some other border town. But it's, he does this, this amazing, amazing single shot.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RARoger Avary
And which back then, this is really hard to do, and this is kind of a, um... I mean, it's Charlton Heston esse- essentially saying, "I, uh, I believe in Orson Welles and his vision."
- JRJoe Rogan
This is crazy.
- RARoger Avary
See, that's, that's downtown Venice. There's, the beach is just beyond that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow. God, what year is this?
- RARoger Avary
Or actually, I'm sorry, the beach might be behind us here in this shot.
- JRJoe Rogan
What year was this?
- SPSpeaker
'58.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, 1958.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. It's an incredible shot.
- RARoger Avary
And, and this is incredibly difficult to do as well, because you've got a crane on the car.
- JRJoe Rogan
And now you're following the people.
- RARoger Avary
Now you're following the people, and there's Charlton Heston with his mustache. And we know as an audience that there's a bomb in that car, but he doesn't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RARoger Avary
And so, you know, he, he's still, y- you know, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Just the fact that this is all one shot is crazy.
- RARoger Avary
And for back then, I mean, it's a big deal. Back then, the camera that you're using isn't just some little, uh, handy cam [laughs] or something like that now, you know, an iPhone. It's a Mitchell BNCR, which is a, you know, it takes four guys to move that camera. It's made out of cast iron. You know, it's a, a giant camera with a blimp, and, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
A blimp?
- RARoger Avary
A blimp is a, a soundproofing device. It's, so you have the camera, and then you've got to build a giant, uh, encasing for the camera so that-
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause it makes so much noise?
- RARoger Avary
[mouth sputtering] You don't wanna hear that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What did that look like?
- RARoger Avary
Um, I have one in my home. It's, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs] Of course you do. [laughs]
- RARoger Avary
[laughs] Yeah. Well, I-
- 9:42 – 20:20
Why old films ‘let scenes cook’: streaming-era pacing, Netflix rules, and attention collapse
- JRJoe Rogan
One of the things about old movies is they would let a scene cook. You know, you, you had so much time before people would talk, and you just let the, like the average daily life sort of play out.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it set the tone for the film, and they don't... Now it's like e- it's like s- built for Netflix.
- RARoger Avary
Well, yeah. Well, now you have a white paper that Netflix gives you, and that I think, uh, uh, was it Ben Affleck that was talking about it? You know, how, you know, you've gotta have a beat in the beginning, and you've gotta have this and this and this and regular things.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RARoger Avary
And I mean, th- there was this book by Sid Field, which was a screenwriting book, um, that, you know, at one hand it gave a kind of formula on what a movie should be. You know, by page seven, your inciting event should happen, and by page 30, the first... Uh, you know, he, he had everything mapped out by page, and that eventually found its way into the hands of studio executives. And they were like, "Oh, now we know what a screenplay is supposed to be structured like," you know, in order to have proper story arcs and structures and a satisfying, uh, design. And, uh, a- a- and that's just the next iteration is Netflix giving you a white paper saying you have to shoot with these cameras. You have to, uh, process at these labs. You have to have, you know, tech specs that are within this range, and that's now extending to story because they've analytically looked at what audiences are, you know, able to process now, which is less and less probably because of the COVID shot, you know, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
... completely frying their pineal glands [laughs] so that they can no longer pay attention to anything. And then on top of that, the, uh, the mind control device of, uh, cell phones. And, um, you know, with all of that, they, they're now like, "Well, how do we maintain the audience?" And so you end up with white papers and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Don't you think it's options, too? It's almost like if something is not really fascinating within the first 20, 30 seconds, people just wanna, let's see what else is on. They just wanna keep searching.
- RARoger Avary
Well, there is that. I mean, there's something magical about being in a movie theater. You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RARoger Avary
It's, uh, you know, you're, you're s- you're, you're in this congregation.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- RARoger Avary
You know, Q- Quentin al- always talks about how, you know, "Movies are my church." Well, it is a congregation, and you're having... You're sitting in the dark next to someone you don't even know. They might have completely different ideologies, uh, you know, race, creed, color. Like, everything is different about them, and yet you're sitting in the dark next to them having this ecstatic dream, this waking dream, sitting like insects looking at the flicker on the screen, and you're sharing this kind of experience that you're... physically trapped in. You know, like you, you don't, you know, you don't get up and leave the theater and, well, you might if you have to go to the bathroom or get some popcorn or something, but they'll even bring that to you now. You [chuckles] ha- you, you're having this kind of ecstatic experience absorbing the movie with someone you don't know, and you're sharing your bodily electricity with them. And I think this kind of, uh, this is the magic that they often talk about of movies. It's not necessarily the, the movie itself on screen, it's the shared experience of being next to people.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RARoger Avary
And that i- th- there is a kind of unseen electricity between people-
- JRJoe Rogan
Absolutely
- RARoger Avary
... that unifies us, and I think that there are dark forces [chuckles] in the universe that are attempting to divide people up and to take that away, to take away that congregation.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you really think that that's on by design, or you think that's just a natural function of streaming and televisions and phones and-
- RARoger Avary
Mm
- JRJoe Rogan
... having access to things instantaneously?
- RARoger Avary
I mean, I personally think that streaming was by design to eliminate residuals. Like it-
- JRJoe Rogan
By design? But what, isn't it just a function of-
- RARoger Avary
I mean, you notice-
- JRJoe Rogan
... new technology emerging?
- RARoger Avary
You notice that all of the executives-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like Napster?
- RARoger Avary
Well, yeah. I mean, part of it is technology, but technology gets pushed and brought to the forefront for specific reasons. And, you know, m- digital cinema hasn't been the greatest thing for the creative process, and I think we see that in the works that we're looking at. I mean, if you watch stuff on Netflix and, uh, what not, y- we can see that i- it, it doesn't have the same power and impact. And also, you know, when you were making a movie, when you were making a film on film, i- i- it was like every time you turn on the camera, you're burning money. It's like every single frame is like four cents or whatever, whatever the calculation was. And so, uh, i- that was actually an expensive part of the process. And so, y- you know, there was all this preparation to get everything ready. Like, oh, we wanna get all of the, the props in place, you know, right before we shoot, and the actors are in their trailer and they're figuring out their, what they're gonna do, and then you're on your way to set and people are like, "Hey, I'll see you in the moment." And what they mean by that is when the m- cameras turn on, and you actually hear that happening, suddenly everything pops into play, and suddenly you're, you're performing in front of, uh, you know, you're, you're, a- and you're, what you're attempting to do is capture lightning in a bottle. And you don't even know that you have it right away. You ask your DP, like, "Do we have it?" And it's like, "Oh, well, there was a, uh, some dust in the frame or a hair in the frame. Let's get another one." You get another one, and like, then you hold that all in the dark, all that film, because you can't expose it, and you send it off to the lab. And then some alchemist at the lab at the castle, you know, puts it into a potion and he... And the next day, what comes out are these, like, little stained glass windows, and you watch it and, and you realize what you caught, and you're like, "We did it. We, we captured something." Okay, now everything is different. You, uh, you know, you show up on set and everything's digital, and you've got producers and, uh, network executives and broadcasters [chuckles] and everybody's there, studio people, in video village, and they set up, like, a little tent, and everybody's sitting there in their Canadian Goose, uh, jackets on high chairs, and they're looking at a big color-corrected monitor, and there's a guy doing color correction in a van. And they're basically watching an approximation of what it's gonna look like in the end. And they're sitting there. Okay, on my first film, there was none of that. I had to stand next to the camera. We didn't even have video tap. Stand next to the camera and look at the actors and see, did the actors do what I wanted them to do? And now, y- you know, you, they just turn on the camera, and it's, it costs more money to stop the camera and to restart it again, so you just let it roll. And you're just, like, letting it go. And you're like, "Hey." You know, the director now is like, "Hey, go back, start over, and smile this time." And then they redo it, and then the editor is now, like, having to take those takes and separate them in the, uh, in the editing room. And the actors are like, suddenly th- the moment is gone, in, in other words. It's vanished. It's, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is there a way to do both? I mean, is it the medium of film? I mean, it seems like-
- RARoger Avary
They're different mediums
- 20:20 – 26:15
Digital vs film aesthetics: soap opera ‘video look,’ lens flare, and nostalgia for imperfections
- JRJoe Rogan
I always thought that, like, when you would watch soap operas, I was like, "Why do they look so weird?" And it's because they were shooting them on video-
- RARoger Avary
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... instead of on film. Like, when we were filming Newsradio, the sitcom, we were doing it on film, and they were, like, really adamant about doing it on film. Like-
- RARoger Avary
Mm-hmm
- JRJoe Rogan
... they really wanted it to be on film. And then there was some process where you could make video look like film, and I was like, "This is so interesting." It's like we're desi- like, when you take your photo with your camera on your phone and you use portrait mode-
- RARoger Avary
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... which is, you blur out the background-
- RARoger Avary
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... so you're making it shittier.
- RARoger Avary
You're doing an artificial-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RARoger Avary
That's because, uh, we associate, um, you know, w- we, we associate the, the faults of-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes
- RARoger Avary
... of m- media as, as film. Like, people think of, like, old movies as gate weave and sepia tone and dust and scratches-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- RARoger Avary
... and kind of fast motion.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RARoger Avary
Well, when those movies were originally made, the motion was corrected by the cranking of the projector, and so it was natural motion. The, uh... there was no sepia tone change. There was no dust. It was originally r- and, and there was no gate weave because it was a fixed image. The image, the celluloid hadn't yet shrunk or anything like that. And so, uh, w- we now as- we have this kind of filter, nostalgic filter that we associate with what an old movie looks like. And so if you wanna make something look old, you start adding all this crap to it. You're adding the faults, and it's the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right
- RARoger Avary
... faults of cinema that actually make it really good. It's not the perfection of cinema.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's so interesting.
- RARoger Avary
At least, in, in my opinion.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because you would never be able to sell that if it, cinema never existed. Like, if cinema never existed-
- RARoger Avary
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... and video came around, and then it was normal video, like soap opera style, and then someone came along and said, "Hey, let's make it blurry in the background, and let's, like..." P- it's almost like we've become accustomed to the faults, and nostalgically we look at them as if they're, they're, it's a positive.
- RARoger Avary
And, and, and it's also led by, you know, everything is shot on iPhones now, and so that's becoming the cinematic vernacular, the grammar that, uh, people are used to, and they, they now expect that in a big movie. And so suddenly you see something like the latest James Gunn's "Superman" or Gilliam, Guillermo del Toro's, uh, "Frankenstein," and they've got these crazy wide lenses where there's no distortion and, you know, kind of infinite depth.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RARoger Avary
And, and they're shot in a, in a very large format, but what they're replicating is an iPhone.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RARoger Avary
And it just... I, I, I watched both of those movies and I thought, "Okay, both of them are amazingly technically competent, and they're made by, you know, like, highly professional people," but, you know, it, it looks like iPhone footage to me.
- 26:15 – 42:12
Vampire cinema tour: Nosferatu lineages, Herzog/Kinski, and modern horror taste
- JRJoe Rogan
You know what I really loved? Uh, Nosferatu. Did you see the new Nosferatu?
- RARoger Avary
No, I, I haven't s- you know... I don't wanna sound like a persnickety guy, but I had to be in the right-
- JRJoe Rogan
I want you to be persnickety. [laughs]
- RARoger Avary
I had to be in the right mood to engage with that movie because, um, I'm... And I like that guy's first movie, The VVitch, or The Witch.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RARoger Avary
Um, I actually-
- JRJoe Rogan
I never saw that.
- RARoger Avary
I-
- JRJoe Rogan
I heard it's great, though.
- RARoger Avary
I love that film. I think that's a great movie, and he's, like, a production designer, so-
- JRJoe Rogan
He's doing a werewolf movie right now.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, of course he is.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm very excited. [laughs]
- RARoger Avary
[laughs] Of course he is.
- JRJoe Rogan
I love a good werewolf movie.
- RARoger Avary
I did not like his Moby Dick-ish, uh, lighthouse movie. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, I didn't see that.
- RARoger Avary
And-
- JRJoe Rogan
That was the Willem Dafoe and Robert Pattinson.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, the Willem Dafoe one. It was just, uh, uh, just garish and kind of I felt like lost its way halfway through.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- RARoger Avary
And, um, but, uh, a- and then, you know, this latest one, Nosferatu, look, I am a Werner Herzog nut, and so I, like, I adore Werner Herzog, and I love his Nosferatu, so for me to, you know, like, watch this guy's version of that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Which one was Werners?
- RARoger Avary
... I have to be in the right mood. I have to be in the right mood. I'm, I just wasn't yet in the right mood to accept it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which one is Werners? Who, who plays Nosferatu?
- RARoger Avary
Oh, Klaus, the, the incomparable Klaus Kinski. And, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
I know I've seen it.
- RARoger Avary
I mean, the thing about Werner Herzog, when he-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah. I remember his Nosferatu
- RARoger Avary
... made his Nosferatu, what's... You know, uh, the Murnau movie, which is the original Nosferatu, the, the very first one with Max Schreck-
- 42:12 – 45:27
TV’s ‘murder porn’ problem, character attachment, and a surprise recommendation: Pendragon/Merlin
- RARoger Avary
Yeah. And, a- and, and that, I mean, I think I even talked about this before, the, like, that's a real problem with television, is that they're just trying to get the serotonin levels spiked by killing someone that you care about.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RARoger Avary
And, you know, real television, you return because you love the characters, and you wanna return to it. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, sometimes it's done well. Like Game of Thrones did a fantastic job of doing that.
- RARoger Avary
But even that kind of lost its way after a while. I mean, a- actually-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, they had, like, eight seasons. I'm, uh, w- I'm rewatching it right now. We're actually on season three right now. It's fucking great.
- RARoger Avary
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
I, I kind of forgot how great it was. But when you get to binge it, and you don't have to wait, like, like, there was years in between seasons-
- RARoger Avary
Have-
- JRJoe Rogan
... 'cause it took so long to produce
- RARoger Avary
... have you seen the Pendragon Cycle, the, um, the Rise of the Merlin?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- RARoger Avary
Okay, so these days, like, y- you almost don't know where television ... where to find television, and that's because you can find it anywhere. Like, and no- the main, uh, the mainstay producers of it, the studios and everything, they're no longer reliable in producing quality television. And so suddenly, uh, we see stuff rising, you know, out of places that is completely unexpected. And, uh, this was produced by The Daily Wire of all pla- of all people.
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- RARoger Avary
Yes. And the CEO of The Daily Wire directed it, uh, this guy Jeremy Boreing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RARoger Avary
I hope I'm not mispronouncing his name.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, it's-
- RARoger Avary
His name is Boreing. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
But, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
And this is good?
- RARoger Avary
Okay, this is ... To me, this is better than, uh, y- you know, it's-I have a very high watermark for, um, uh, for Arthurian mythology. Like, to me, Excalibur is the high watermark, and this really went through... This, like... I had a chip on my shoulder when I started watching this. I was like, "Okay, this is very unlikely that I'm going to enjoy this production." But they did it for, like, a m- for a micro budget, effectively. They made something that is absolutely kind of reinvents the mythology, and they do it like proper television, where you kind of love the characters and they, they weave an entire reality and universe that is just fantastic. And it's done for, like, you know, for very, very little. You know, they're spending billions making, uh, these "Lord of the Rings" things, and, like, nobody cares. They're just awful to watch. And in the meantime, these guys just, you know, without anybody paying attention, [chuckles] cranked this out. And, uh, I've only seen four episodes of it, but I am, like, completely blown away by it.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's so interesting-
- RARoger Avary
The Daily Wire
- JRJoe Rogan
... because I haven't heard anything about it. I think that's part of the problem-
- RARoger Avary
Well, that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
... is The Daily Wire
- RARoger Avary
... because, well, y- like, we don't hear about a lot of things. Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right
- 45:27 – 57:46
Propaganda vs storytelling: DEI, corporate mandates, and Star Trek’s canon crisis
- RARoger Avary
Well, everybody's embedding their own ideology. They're... Whenever you make any media, there's usually, um, y- you have corporate propaganda and personal propaganda, and you're u- and usually there was a balance between the two. You know, if you're making "Midnight Express," for example, okay, that movie was nothing like the book at all.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- RARoger Avary
Yeah. Not, not even close to the book.
- JRJoe Rogan
Huh.
- RARoger Avary
And it, it's a complete alternate experience, and you wonder, why did that movie, why was that movie such a big success? Why was that movie such a, um, overwhelmingly, like, Oscars and everything? Okay, I think it had a little bit more to do with the politics of what was going on with Turkey at that time than anything else. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm
- RARoger Avary
... and, and, you know, um, uh, what's his name, Billy Hayes, who, uh, um, you know, experienced it, lived it, spent the rest of his life basically apologizing for the movie, and, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Why?
- RARoger Avary
You know... Because none of it, he, he, he wasn't, like, raped in a Turkish prison, and that's, like, that's like a j-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, the, the original guy-
- RARoger Avary
That's like a joke-
- JRJoe Rogan
... who wrote the book
- RARoger Avary
... that gets, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right
- RARoger Avary
... you know, in "Airplane!" they're making jokes about it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RARoger Avary
And so yeah, Billy Hayes, he was the, the actual character, or the person who lived the experience. And, uh, and so the movie is a kind of propaganda element, and that's, like, all Hollywood does that. We, you know, you kind of accept whenever you're making a movie that you're being used in a certain level to do something, whether it's to, you know, on a very basic level, whether it's just to, like, you know, mortify or scare audiences, or, you know, to, to, you know, to do things. And we see that more and more obviously in media as the director, the personal propaganda, when you have something personal that you want to get on screen, has become more and more diminished, and you have a, you know, sort of more corporate propaganda kind of taking over. And I think the, the, the most probably crass example of that is, uh, DEI stuff, uh, you know, in movies and pushing-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- RARoger Avary
... uh, characters in situations that are just completely out of whack with it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you see the Star Trek that they tried to make like that?
- RARoger Avary
[sighs] Okay, I'm, like, a big Star Trek guy. I watch Star Trek every day in my house. We watch, like, two or three episodes, and I'm not kidding.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
My wife is, like, a Trekkie. She is, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
... crazy for Star Trek.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's amazing.
- RARoger Avary
And so she puts Star Trek on, you know, like, at around 5:00, Star Trek comes on, and she-
- JRJoe Rogan
Original?
- RARoger Avary
Well, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Or Picard?
- 57:46 – 1:09:38
Ridley Scott rewatch: Napoleon/Exodus disappointments, The Last Duel as a masterpiece, and The Counselor reappraisal
- RARoger Avary
What's funny, I recently went back and started watching all the Ridley Scott movies I hadn't seen. You know, like, there's a ton of them that I just, you know, kind of missed along the way. And I started off with, um, uh, God, what was it? I, um, oh, I started off with Napoleon, and like, 'cause I just missed it when it came out, and I'm like, "What? What happened to Ridley Scott?" It's, uh... And I have not liked any of his recent Alien movies. I just think they're... I'm confused by them, to be honest.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. The Prometheus ones and just, yeah.
- RARoger Avary
It's just like, when you need a web episode in order to understand what the hell he's talking about in the movie, you failed. And th- and they're just like, they're highf- they're technically technical marvels. Like, nobody shoots big canvas cinema like Ridley Scott. Like, no one [chuckles] shoots a helicopter crashing like Ridley Scott shoots a helicopter crashing. And, uh, and, and, and you know, you watch Napoleon and sure, the batter- Battle of Austerlitz, amazing to watch. You know, cannonballs going into the, the lake and the ice breaking and people falling in the water. But the minute anybody talks in that movie, it just collapses on its own weight. It's just like, you just don't care. My wife was like, "This is the worst date movie. You're not gonna sleep with me after this." [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs] What's wrong with it?
- RARoger Avary
It, it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
I didn't see it.
- RARoger Avary
J- it's... Well, Joaquin Phoenix, who, and I think he made a choice, because I consider him to be an excellent actor, but in this movie, I think he made a choice to just play it like, you know, contempor- like he, he just kind of talks. Everybody else is doing sort of a British or French-ish accent, like they're all kind of pretending that they're in a, in a period piece.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RARoger Avary
But not Joaquin Phoenix. He just plays it like he just, you know, walked off Hollywood Boulevard.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- RARoger Avary
And, and he, and it, and just like the battle sc- there's no passion in any of his performance. It's kind of this weird, dead, dead performance. And, uh, and so I-
- JRJoe Rogan
You think he did it on purpose to portray, like, a sociopath that-
- RARoger Avary
I, I think he came on, he was like, "I am gonna do whatever I wanna do the way Napoleon would," and I, and, and I'm not-
- JRJoe Rogan
He just decided
- RARoger Avary
... and I'm not gonna try. I am a Corsican, and I'm not t- I'm gonna be an outsider to all of these other people who are... I, I think there was an intellectual idea behind what he did, and it completely failed. And so I'm like, okay, I adore watching Ridley Scott do these big scenes, but blegh, what a terrible movie.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
And you know, like, failure, and then I-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
So, and so then after that, I'm like, "Okay, let's, let's watch something else." Well, oh, he did Exodus. I've never seen that. Gods and Kings with Christian Bale. Same thing. It's like you start watching that movie, and there's some interesting things in the film. He's got, like, chariot battles and, you know, archers shooting things and, like, you know, whenever he's doing that, like, Ridley Scott's like, "Oh, this is my day on set," and he's got a cigar and 20 cameras. You know, "Put cameras everywhere." And he's like, "Shoot from every angle," and he's like a, like a great general, you know, uh, uh, shooting. But the minute anybody talks, that movie falls apart. And actually, I mean, I don't know how to say this, but that movie almost did its best to turn me on the Jews. [laughs] Like, I'm watching it, and I'm like, uh, this is like, first of all, is anybody even Jewish making this? Like, it seems like nobody involved in it was, was Jewish. And like, they start, like, you know, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
How is that even possible?
- RARoger Avary
Well, Moses, as a character, when he's, uh, an Egyptian, when he's, like, the adopted Br- Egyptian brother, I'm like totally with him for some reason. Then he becomes Moses after getting, like, hit in the head with a rock, and, uh, and all of a sudden he's, uh, you know, kind of, he's like a lunatic. And like, you're like, "Everybody's following him?" Like, he's, like, he's distaste- he's distasteful all of a sudden. And, but every now and then they would show a battle scene, and it's like, okay, I, ah, I can, like, Ridley Scott's doing his thing again. But like, and you know who's also really good in it is, um, God, I can't remember, Joel Edgerton, who plays Ramesses. It's really funny because Joel Edgerton is, you know... Like, usually you imagine Egyptians, when they're cast, as being kind of tall and, you know, sort of... noble looking and everything. He's kind of like this butch, like sort of tough, you know, wide-bodied butch, uh, Ramses. Like, just kind of like a tough Ramses. And every now and then his Australian accent comes out, and so he's like, "Oh, oi." He's like an Australian Ramses.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
And John Turturro plays his, his father, uh, who, you know, a bald... I'm like, "Is that John Turturro?" Like, what a crazy choice this is. And so there were all sorts of, like, interesting things going on in the movie, but again, I was like, "Ugh, this is awful."
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it impossible for you to watch a movie without just becoming hypercritical about all these different aspects-
- RARoger Avary
Well, yes
- JRJoe Rogan
... like how I would do it, what I don't like?
- RARoger Avary
Yes and no. So the next Ridley Scott movie I watched, which I stayed away from, and with great apologies to Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, was The Last Duel. And I just kind of avoided it. I was doing other things at the time, and the poster looked awful, and it was like, eh, eh, I'm not gonna go see that. And then I, uh, I, I, I put it on after watching these other two, and I was like, "Okay, here we go. Let's go again." And lo and behold, one of the best films of the century in my opinion.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- RARoger Avary
Absolutely. First of all, those guys know how to write a script, and I know that they wrote it with Nicole Holofcener or whatever her name is.
- JRJoe Rogan
The Last Duel.
- 1:09:38 – 1:19:05
Epstein files, coded language, sulfuric acid order, and the ‘desensitization’ debate
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, did you see the thing in the Epstein files?
- RARoger Avary
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like they, they ordered-
- RARoger Avary
Those Epstein files... In fact, I can't believe that, like, everybody's just kind of like, "Oh, well, okay," and they're moving on with their lives. Did you see that guy at the Atlanta airport, uh, flipping out? The well-dressed Black dude who just freaks out at, in the Atlanta-
- JRJoe Rogan
When?
- RARoger Avary
Uh, just like a couple of days ago on, uh... I saw it on YouTube... No, I saw it on, uh, Twitter or X. And, uh, the, this guy's just freaking out in the Atlanta airport. He's like, you know, "I read the Epstein files. Like, all of you, you're going about your lives like nothing's happening. Look, you're all zombies." And he's right. It's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Everybody is just numb to everything. Like, dudes, we had a global pandemic, uh, aliens, uh, you know, uh, uh, all these, like, revelations. People are, you know, eating babies. Uh, here it is.
- JRJoe Rogan
This is the guy? He's just-
- JRJoe Rogan
Files have been released, and all of y'all are acting normal. All of y'all.
- RARoger Avary
And there's a longer version of that where he's... But he's basically like, "You're all acting like nothing's happening. Like, what the fuck?" You know, "You're all just pretending. You're just drones going on in your normal lives."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I think people are waiting for a condensed version that lays out all the facts. It's the people that are, like, really interested in reading all the emails.
- RARoger Avary
I think the Luciferians, uh, cast a spell on the world, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
For real?
- RARoger Avary
Oh, absolutely. Like, you know, it's just like how vampires can't go into a house unless they're invited. They tell you, you know, what's going on ahead of time. It's predictive programming, and once you say it out loud, and you put it out there, and make fun of it, and do a little skit like they... Like Stephen Colbert did a little skit on his show where, "Oh, here's a baby. I'm gonna take this baby, and I'm gonna give it to Moloch." And he goes into like a cloudy red, uh, you know, furnace and hands the baby over, and he's, "Oh, the baby's gonna be fine." And they make a joke about it, and the audience laughs. Okay, we're all now conditioned to it. We've all seen it, and by laughing at it-
- JRJoe Rogan
But wait a minute
- RARoger Avary
... and becoming, we are complicit in it.
- JRJoe Rogan
You think that that's, uh, that's on purpose? That this is, like, some sort of a grand design to get us to be desensitized to the idea of demons eating babies?
- RARoger Avary
Yeah. For sure.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- RARoger Avary
For sure. And, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, who do you think-
- RARoger Avary
... and by the way-
- JRJoe Rogan
But, okay
- RARoger Avary
... nobody's doing anything about it. We know what's happening.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay. But that has to take... Like, there has to be a person or some group of people.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, like about eight-
- JRJoe Rogan
That is-
- RARoger Avary
... about 8,500 people. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That are manipulating the Colbert show?
- RARoger Avary
That are manipulating everything. It's all an illusion. Like, reality as we know it is fake. That's, that's the revelation that that guy is having, and he's looking around, and he's like, "It's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it cer- See, I don't... The thing about the emails is, o- one of the things is it's just stuff written down, and so that's sort of hard to digest. Like, what is this? Like, what are they saying? Like, some of it is in code, like walking over beef jerky. Like saying, talking about jerky, could you walk beef jerky over to this person? Like, what does that mean?
- 1:19:05 – 1:21:52
Eyes Wide Shut, kompromat mechanics, and whether politics is ‘real’ or theater
- RARoger Avary
I came, I came out here last time and I talked about, you know, the, the pedo cult inside of the Kubrick film.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- RARoger Avary
I, I, so I tr-
- JRJoe Rogan
By the way, that went viral.
- RARoger Avary
And I got so much blowback from that, you know. I, the on- online critics were like, "No, no, there's nothing in there. Mundus vult decipi." They don't wanna see it. They don't wanna, they don't wanna see those two guys walking away with that girl in the end. They just like, "Well, no, no, it's, it wasn't in the Schnitzler novel," and blah, blah, blah. I mean, dude, look at that movie. It's about a cult. Like, what are you talking about? It's a secret cult, and in fact, uh, Sydney Lumet's character even says at one point, you know, uh, "Do you know what these people do? I'm not gonna tell you what they do, but let me tell you, if I told you what they do, they would, like, scare the hell out of you."
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RARoger Avary
I mean, like, that's after he's been to the place and seen everybody walking around at the, in the sex club. I mean, it's obviously... There's obviously more going on in that movie, but people don't wanna see it. I, like, uh, like, I had, what was it, New York Magazine or whatever, went so far as to, like, you know, aggressively trying to get me to debunk it.And, uh, and which is fine. Which is fine. It's just an interpretation of a movie.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, but that, that interpretation resonated.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, that clip went-
- RARoger Avary
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
... very, very viral
- RARoger Avary
... especially now, it's like people are like, uh, looking at it, and they're like, "Well, you know, he was obviously saying something." Even if you extract that out of the movie, he's obviously saying something about people at high levels of power.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, there's always been weird secret groups and rituals.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it's one of the ways to ensure that y- you're compromised. You'll stay-
- RARoger Avary
It's a confidence operation.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- RARoger Avary
And so what you do is you find somebody when they're young and they're, you know, less inhibited, and, and they, you know, or uninhibited, and you catch them doing something that is illegal, and maybe you even provide the mechanism for that to happen. And then once it's happened, you, uh, you now have the, the video proof or the audio proof or whatever proof you have, you've got proof of it, and you show it to them, and you say, "Look, this is, uh, what we have on you, and, uh, and we can ruin you at any minute. But you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna give you $20,000 a month, or we're gonna give you $20 million a year," whatever level that is, "instead, and you're gonna work for us."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- RARoger Avary
And, uh, and, and what else explains some of these people who are so flipped out about like, you know, about Trump? Like, "He's a, he's a putz. He's a da da." Like they're, it's over the top. It's, you know, what... It's, it's strange how people are, how people behave in, uh, um, y- re- regarding that. It's bizarre.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, but don't you think that's also just because the Democratic Party didn't want him to get into power because he was a complete outsider, and they knew that he-
- 1:21:52 – 1:28:26
Rewriting history: Fomenko’s ‘New Chronology,’ Tartaria, and the Dark Ages as a timeline insertion
- RARoger Avary
I don't think there are parties. I don't think there, there... I think that's all an illusion also. I think everything that you think that i- is, is an illusion. It's all fake. I don't think that any history before 1600... I think everything has been, uh, falsified before the year 1600. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
How so?
- RARoger Avary
Well, um, h- there's this guy, Anatoly Fomenko, who's a Russian mathematician and historian, and he wrote a book called "The New Chronology." It's actually a series of books. It's like six volumes, and I've read them all.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
And [laughs] and, and, um, and, uh, and also his addendum book, "The New Chronology." He, he has an addendum book about it. And, uh, he basically says that, uh, all of history has been changed. About 1,000 years have been added to the timeline in order to justify land claims, and those land claims largely have to do with, uh, Eurasian, the Eurasian Horde, and the elimination of the Eurasian Horde by, uh, collusion between, uh, you know, the Vatican, the, uh, Romanovs, the, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
So you mean like the Mongols and the Huns?
- RARoger Avary
Yeah. There was a... And if you look on very, very old maps, uh, you see that there used to be a country called Tartaria-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right
- RARoger Avary
... that was, uh, that was in existence. And at a certain point, they wiped them out. And so his theory, and it's just a theory, it's just a posit, but when you see how history is constantly being rewritten in real time-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm
- RARoger Avary
... it's not so hard to believe. And then he uses, you know, uh, um, astronomical, uh, evidence and, you know, mathematically kind of proves it. And he basically says that, uh, let's see if I can get this right, that, um, uh, Rome and Greece and, you know, those, um, and Egypt were, um, actually active till around 1600, and that Rome actually fell around 1600. So kind of imagine... Or more like late 1400s, 1492.
- JRJoe Rogan
As opposed to what's the conventional timeline?
- RARoger Avary
Uh, w- about 1,000 years before.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- RARoger Avary
And so, and so, y- you know, if you can wrap your head around it, the Salem witch trials took place around the same time as the Inquisition. Columbus was discovering America around the time Rome fell, and that, uh, all of this was designed to justify and, or to, uh, erase this entire civilization from history. And then there are people who believe that there are a lot of buildings that are still in existence that, uh, that were this. They, uh, they, they claim that, uh, Jesus Christ was... Hmm, I can't remember, um, the emperor's name. The, it's kind of a composite story. There's a number of, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
So they think 1,000 years are missing from the timeline?
- RARoger Avary
Well, think about it. If you're a Byzantine guy and you're like, "Hey, I wanna move to the country," and you look over at, uh, France, let's say, and Germany, and, and you're like, "Yeah, there's all these, like, indigenous peoples there, and we wanna wipe them out." And so you hire, you know, a, uh, mercenary. You hire a guy named Charlemagne, and you get him to go in there and kill all the chieftains in one day, like 5,000 chieftains were killed in a single day apparently by Charlemagne, and you completely wipe out everything, and then you move in. You become Jerome, uh, the, Jerome I, and you run Paris, y- or you begin, you know, France. And what it really is is just land. It's... And so you add time to the timeline in order to justify that land claim. 'Cause what makes more sense? That history was cruising along like this and then suddenly flatlined for 1,000 years and then picked up again? Or does it make more sense that somebody took that time, that, uh, the Dark Ages, and kind of added, added to the timeline?
- JRJoe Rogan
So I'm, I'm confused. So but isn't there, like, documented history from multiple cultures about that time period?
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, but it's all, like, you know, written down by the Jesuits who were completely in the control of, uh, you know... It's, that history, history is easily changed. And in fact, we see history being changed before our eyes in real time. And so the deep past is, is easy to change.
- JRJoe Rogan
So we're not in 2026?
- RARoger Avary
No. We're, like, in the 1700s.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, Jesus. [laughs]
- RARoger Avary
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh my God.
- RARoger Avary
Just a theory. It's just this guy, Antonelli, Anto- Anto- Anatoly, uh, Flamenco. And, uh, and it's a very interesting theory. And so I read that-
- JRJoe Rogan
So I-
- RARoger Avary
... and I kinda had a tent pole collapse. I was like, "Well, holy crap."
- JRJoe Rogan
Explain to me the flatness. Like, what do you mean by history goes up and then flattens out?
- RARoger Avary
Well, the progression, the progression of humanity through history as we kind of are progressing as we go.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 1:28:26 – 1:49:05
Civilization on the precipice: UK/Canada authoritarian drift, Bolshevism framing, and 9/11 as a ‘wake-up’ paradox
- RARoger Avary
The British only care about, "As long as I have my daily pint at the end of the day," that's all they care about. You know, they, they'll... In the meantime, their entire country is being overtaken and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- RARoger Avary
... overrun by... Like, when else in history has this happened and ended well? [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- RARoger Avary
But-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's so shocking how quickly it's happening in England that you just go, "How do you bounce back from this?" Like, what is the remedy?
- RARoger Avary
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because they're, they're doing this mass arrest thing with social media posts, which is bizarre. It's bizarre to watch. And then they eliminate jury trials for anything other than, like, murder and rape.
- RARoger Avary
If you say anything, you're in jail.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RARoger Avary
If you post, if you repost anything, you're just-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- RARoger Avary
... immediately sent to jail. Look at what's going on in Canada right now, you know, with Carney.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RARoger Avary
I mean, like, I think that's insane what's going on, and most Canadians are just kind of vibing along with it. Nobody wants to rock the boat. Nobody wants to be racist. Nobody wants to be, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- RARoger Avary
... you know, nobody wants to be discriminatory in any kind of way, rightfully so. Like, you know, you... And you wanna believe that your leaders are, are taking care of you, and they're not. And it's over. We've lost. It's over. I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
You think it's over here in America as well?
- RARoger Avary
Well, it got slowed down a little bit. It got... So whether you like Trump or not, and I'm not, like, a... I don't really like anybody, but it de-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a healthy perspective
- RARoger Avary
... it definitely added a road bump-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- RARoger Avary
... [laughs] in the, in the, in the actions of the cabal of the Clintons and the Obamas and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- RARoger Avary
... and their, the bankers that, that control them. And that's when you see the movie, uh, The Counselor, that's what you realize is that, wow, the cartels are the banks, and they are law enforcement, and they are the media, and they are everything, and there is no fighting it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RARoger Avary
There is no individually fighting it. Like, there's nothing any of us can do.
- JRJoe Rogan
That is-
- RARoger Avary
And I don't mean to be... I, I mean, the only thing you can do is, uh, you know, affect what's happening around you locally within the moment.
- JRJoe Rogan
But don't you think that more people are aware of what's going on right now? There's more pushback than ever before, and so there's a possibility that it could be stopped?
- 1:49:05 – 2:06:51
AI doom, simulation talk, and the Flat Earth detour: faith, perception, and ISS ‘glitches’
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you see that thing that was just released today? I think it's the AI company Anthropic. I think that's the company. So one of its engineers resigned and essentially-
- RARoger Avary
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... said that humanity is doomed-
- RARoger Avary
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... and he's going to move to the UK and just write poetry and just wait it out.
- RARoger Avary
Hasn't that guy seen Threads? [laughs] Like, the, the UK is, like, one of the most dangerous places to be. That's where he's going to wait it out? Like, that's, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he probably has this romantic idea.
- RARoger Avary
Well, when he says UK, does he mean, like, where does he-
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm not sure. Maybe he means, like, the Scottish Highlands.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah. Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
Maybe he's gonna hide-
- RARoger Avary
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... and go into some small town and fucking just hang out at a pub.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, they're gonna populate that town with, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- RARoger Avary
... suddenly 800, uh, war-capable men from, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- RARoger Avary
... you know, another country are gonna move in, and they're gonna move into the local hotel.
- JRJoe Rogan
Some place that the, the West has conveniently been bombing-
- RARoger Avary
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... and creating refugees on.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, creating angry people.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah. And who have a, a bone to pick.
- JRJoe Rogan
God, you don't wanna think that it's all planned out like that, but-
- RARoger Avary
Of course you don't. Like, uh, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
But that was a bit of the exposure of USAID, you know? So, uh, I, like many people, thought USAID was about aid. I thought it was, like, a beautiful philanthropic program where the United States donates money to all these poor countries.
- RARoger Avary
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's how they get food. Like, I had Bono on the show, and he's like, "I've heard that 30,000 people have already starved to death because of this. 30 million people are gonna die." And I'm like, "Okay, but do you know how much con- corruption was involved with this? Do you know that it's not aid? It's the Agency for International Development, and mostly what they were doing was regime change shit." And Mike Benz laid it out, and he said, "USAID was for d-... tasks that were too dirty for the CIA.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah.
- 2:06:51 – 2:46:31
Bible as edited artifact: gematria, numerology, Enoch/Nephilim, and language as reality-tech
- JRJoe Rogan
I've been reading the Bible a lot.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And one of the problems that I find is it's clearly got the hand of man on it.
- RARoger Avary
Well, it's been edited.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- RARoger Avary
It's been edited. You know, the King James... Or who was King James? He wrote Bible- he wrote books on demon- on demons as well. And so, uh, who was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, even the Old Testament.
- RARoger Avary
Actually-
- JRJoe Rogan
The Old Testament has the hand of man on it. Not just that, but it's also been translated so many different times. Like Ancient Hebrew, the letters double as numbers. There's no numbers in Ancient Hebrew.
- RARoger Avary
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
So words have numerical value to them.
- RARoger Avary
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, you know, imagine translating such a complex language where, like, the let- the word God and the word love, they have the same numerical value, I believe.
- RARoger Avary
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
I read... Here's another thing. I've read that. I don't know if it's true, so let me find out if that's true. Put that into Perplexity.
- RARoger Avary
There's a lot of weird stuff in the Bible. In Gene-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh
- RARoger Avary
... in Genesis when-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, how about the Book of Enoch?
- RARoger Avary
... the, the Nephilim come down-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- RARoger Avary
... and they find women comely, and so they, they... Like, okay, what's actually going on there? These angels or Nephilim are, are, are coming down and they're taking women from men-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- RARoger Avary
... and having sex with them, and then creating, uh, you know, hybrid offspring that-
- JRJoe Rogan
When Representative, uh, Anna Paulina Luna was here-
- RARoger Avary
Mm-hmm
- JRJoe Rogan
... she told me about the Book of Enoch. She's like, "You have to read that. Have you ever read it?" I go, "No." So I read it. Holy-
- RARoger Avary
Have you seen The Carpenter Sun?
- JRJoe Rogan
Fuck.
- RARoger Avary
The Nicolas Cage movie?
Episode duration: 3:05:54
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Transcript of episode CH5JoJ_-hic
