Joe Rogan Experience #2453 - Evan Hafer

Joe Rogan 0:00 [upbeat music]

Joe Rogan 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music] Oh, man, what's happening, baby?

Evan Hafer 0:14 Everything-

Joe Rogan 0:15 I'm-

Evan Hafer 0:15 ... and nothing all at the same time.

Joe Rogan 0:17 I was just explaining all the shit that's on this desk. It's like everybody likes to give me something that sits here, which is kinda cool. Like, uh, Ed Calderon gave me this. It's like a WD-40 with a lighter attached to it.

Evan Hafer 0:31 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 0:32 You can fucking blast people.

Evan Hafer 0:34 Is it like a self-defense...

Joe Rogan 0:35 I don't- he's always got these things, like cartel things.

Evan Hafer 0:39 That looks like-

Joe Rogan 0:40 And he's like the cartel-

Evan Hafer 0:40 ... 3D printed. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:42 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 0:42 Got it.

Joe Rogan 0:42 I think it is.

Evan Hafer 0:42 Yeah, yeah. That's cool.

Joe Rogan 0:44 Yeah. I mean, it's a-

Evan Hafer 0:45 Little things-

Joe Rogan 0:45 ... portable flamethrower.

Evan Hafer 0:47 [chuckles] Holy shit. I love this.

Joe Rogan 0:49 From two common items. [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 0:51 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 0:51 And then, um, [clears throat] I think it was Luke Caverns gave me this. Is that who gave me this? The m- the Ol-

Evan Hafer 0:56 No, the-

Joe Rogan 0:56 Olmec head

Evan Hafer 0:57 ... Mexican.

Joe Rogan 0:58 It's from the Olmecs.

Evan Hafer 0:59 Oh, is that what it is?

Joe Rogan 1:00 Yeah. And then, of course, my man, John Reeves, is always giving me these mammoth things. I got mammoth teeth.

Evan Hafer 1:06 Wow, I love it.

Joe Rogan 1:06 Uh, this is actually from Colossal, but he gave me a, a 1911 handle.

Evan Hafer 1:11 That's legit.

Joe Rogan 1:12 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:13 Even though... Do you have any 1911s?

Joe Rogan 1:15 No.

Evan Hafer 1:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16 I got 2011s.

Evan Hafer 1:17 Yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 1:18 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:18 It's a, it's a huge upgrade.

Joe Rogan 1:20 Yeah, but, you know, I'm sure it'll probably be able to fit. Like, you, you bring it to a gunsmith, he can make it fit.

Evan Hafer 1:26 Yeah. Well, you know what you could do? You could have him make one for your bow, so you could put the, the bone on each side of your bow.

Joe Rogan 1:33 Oh, I have that.

Evan Hafer 1:33 You have it?

Joe Rogan 1:34 Yeah, from, uh, Rattler Grip Grips.

Evan Hafer 1:36 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:37 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37 This is another piece. Shout out to Handsome Rob-

Evan Hafer 1:40 Dude

Joe Rogan 1:40 ... at Rattler Grip Grips. He always hooks me up.

Evan Hafer 1:42 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42 He gives me those, uh, keep hammering ones.

Evan Hafer 1:44 Yeah, those are cool.

Joe Rogan 1:46 Yeah, it feels better, too.

Evan Hafer 1:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47 It feels better in the hand.

Evan Hafer 1:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48 It's interesting, like, Hoyt doesn't have a whole lot of options. Like, Ultraview doesn't make their, their handles for Hoyt, but they make them for, uh, Matthews-

Evan Hafer 1:55 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:56 ... 'cause he, he shoots Matthews. But it's a nice handle upgrade. It really does... Like, the way it sits in your hand, it really does feel, like, a little better, just the touch of it.

Evan Hafer 2:04 Are you still, are you still putting them on your, your Hoyt for every one?

Joe Rogan 2:08 The Rattler Grips.

Evan Hafer 2:09 You do?

Joe Rogan 2:09 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:10 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:10 Yeah. That's great.

Joe Rogan 2:11 He just sent me some new ones.

Evan Hafer 2:12 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:13 It feels better. And the bone, there's something about the bone. It's more tactile in your hand-

Evan Hafer 2:17 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:17 ... than plastic.

Evan Hafer 2:18 Well, I've been wrapping mine with that camouflage athletic tape.

Joe Rogan 2:21 Oh, really?

Evan Hafer 2:22 Yeah. [chuckles] It's sticky.

Joe Rogan 2:23 Bowmar sells stuff like that. He sells specific bow grip.

Evan Hafer 2:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:26 It's got a little bit of tackiness to it, but some people think you shouldn't have that. They think your hand should be so relaxed that it should be able to slip around your hand, so there's, like, no torque whatsoever in your front hand.

Evan Hafer 2:36 I don't like that. I like to feel, I, I like to feel the, the, uh, dexterity of it, right?

Joe Rogan 2:41 Mm.

Evan Hafer 2:41 I like to have a little bit of relief in the hand in the context of, like, I've gotta have some grippiness to it. Just like a baseball bat or any other things-

Joe Rogan 2:51 Right

Evan Hafer 2:51 ... any- even all of the, like, Glocks and 2011s-

Joe Rogan 2:54 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 2:54 ... I'll still do an upgrade on the stippling and-

Joe Rogan 2:57 Yeah

Evan Hafer 2:57 ... clean it a bit more. But I've also got giant hands for a, a s- well, I shouldn't be- I shouldn't say I'm small. Like, I am two inches taller than the average Asian woman, so I-

Joe Rogan 3:07 [laughs]

Evan Hafer 3:08 ... I don't like to brag about it. I don't want to come out with that right away.

Joe Rogan 3:11 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 3:11 It just might seem a little bit egotistical.

Joe Rogan 3:13 Yeah, but if you, um, if you do anything, I think it's just, like, whether it's with archery, with anything with shooting, it's... You just, it just has to register with you.

Evan Hafer 3:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:23 It's not, it's not gonna be the same with everybody.

Evan Hafer 3:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 3:26 You know, I, I know dudes who just can't get used to finger triggers, and then some other, some dudes just love finger triggers. And some guys just have to shoot a hinge, and some guys just can't do it.

Evan Hafer 3:37 I, I shoot them all, man.

Joe Rogan 3:38 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 3:39 Like, I, I just have... So I got that, that dump bag now that I'll-

Joe Rogan 3:43 Mm

Evan Hafer 3:43 ... basically I'll wear on the side, and then I'll do the, the hinge roulette.

Joe Rogan 3:48 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 3:48 So I just like-

Joe Rogan 3:48 Reach in there.

Evan Hafer 3:49 Reach in, and then I gotta shoot a hinge, or I gotta shoot this.

Joe Rogan 3:51 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 3:52 And the only way that's, that you don't... or the, the mix-up part, you've gotta shoot the wrist strap, right? You have to put that on, so-

Joe Rogan 4:00 Yeah

Evan Hafer 4:00 ... you can't just do shooter roulette with all of that.

Joe Rogan 4:03 But that's the, the wrist strap's a little bit more involved, but I love having them. I've been using the Wise Guy. I've been-

Evan Hafer 4:09 Yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 4:09 ... ever since our last hunt-

Evan Hafer 4:10 Yeah

Joe Rogan 4:10 ... I've been only using the Wise Guy, and I'm used to it now. It took a w- it took a while. I was, like, hammering the trigger for a little bit. Like, yeah, after... The thing is, it's like, with archery, once your form breaks down, and then-

Evan Hafer 4:23 Mm

Joe Rogan 4:23 ... you try to compensate 'cause you're tired, like, I think I should just limit myself to one hour, and after-

Evan Hafer 4:29 Just one hour?

Joe Rogan 4:30 ... one hour, just stop.

Evan Hafer 4:32 So is that what you're doing every day, is basically an hour?

Joe Rogan 4:35 Yeah, one.

Evan Hafer 4:35 A little bit more or a little, little less?

Joe Rogan 4:37 Yeah, w- but it's when it's more, it's when things go sideways. Like, I'll give myself, like, a few minutes break to let my arm relax.

Evan Hafer 4:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:45 And then I just... I'm just- it's too much compensating 'cause my arm's tired-

Evan Hafer 4:49 Right

Joe Rogan 4:50 ... and not enough, especially 'cause the bow's 84. Now I got the new one that's 90 pounds.

Evan Hafer 4:54 Is that what you're shooting every day?

Joe Rogan 4:56 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 4:56 You're shooting 90 pounds every day?

Joe Rogan 4:58 84 every day.

Evan Hafer 4:58 84 every day.

Joe Rogan 4:59 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 4:59 Okay.

Joe Rogan 4:59 I haven't, I haven't set up the 90 yet.

Evan Hafer 5:00 Okay.

Joe Rogan 5:00 It's still at Archery Country.

Evan Hafer 5:02 And then do you... Are you going out to 100-plus every day, too, or are you sticking at, like-

Joe Rogan 5:06 85.

Evan Hafer 5:06 85?

Joe Rogan 5:06 85.

Evan Hafer 5:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:07 That's my standard in my backyard.

Evan Hafer 5:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:09 As long as there's no, no one wandering around. [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 5:12 I-

Joe Rogan 5:12 When people are wandering around- [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 5:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 5:14 ... I tend to, I got, [chuckles] you know, like, there's landscapers, I, I don't do-

Evan Hafer 5:18 Yeah

Joe Rogan 5:18 ... the long bomb.

Evan Hafer 5:19 I, I've got my, uh, my wife is re- redoing this, uh, little garden house in the back, so she won't let me shoot at it anymore, 'cause she's afraid I'm gonna put an arrow-

Joe Rogan 5:29 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 5:29 ... through her little hut that she's making. She's, she's actually doing all the work, too.

Joe Rogan 5:32 [laughs]

Evan Hafer 5:32 She's got, like, a tool belt on, and she's out there hammering away-

Joe Rogan 5:35 Oh, that's great

Evan Hafer 5:36 ... putting doors in and everything. She's doing all the work.

Joe Rogan 5:38 Wow!

Evan Hafer 5:38 So she's like, "You can no longer use this as your backstop," 'cause it was-

Joe Rogan 5:41 [exhales]

Evan Hafer 5:41 ... just a pile of shit that I could basically shoot arrows at.

Joe Rogan 5:44 Oh, that's a bad trade.

Evan Hafer 5:45 It's a super bad trade. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 5:46 Yeah, I, I need a backstop. You gotta fuck off. Like, we were talking about, like, must-haves for backyards.

Evan Hafer 5:52 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 5:52 Like, I gotta be... I'm, I'm not living in a house where I can't shoot at least 50 yards.

Evan Hafer 5:57 No.

Joe Rogan 5:57 I go out in the backyard, I get my rangefinder. I bring a rangefinder when I look at houses. No bullshit.

Evan Hafer 6:02 Are you serious?

Joe Rogan 6:03 100%.

Evan Hafer 6:03 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 6:04 I've been doing it for the last, like, six, seven years. [laughs]

Evan Hafer 6:06 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 6:07 Before I bought this house in Au- well, the bought- when I bought the house in Austin, it was a big yard. I'm like, "We're good." I just had to find a spot. I was like, "This is-

Evan Hafer 6:13 Right

Joe Rogan 6:13 ... at least 100 yards from here to here. All right."

Evan Hafer 6:14 Have you ever, have you ever punched a-... punch the trigger and put one out in the, the river? I, I guess you shouldn't tell me that. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 6:21 [laughing] No.

Speaker 6:21 [laughing] No.

Joe Rogan 6:21 You shouldn't-

Evan Hafer 6:21 We should, we should never do that.

Joe Rogan 6:22 No, I never shoot towards the river-

Evan Hafer 6:23 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 6:23 -because kayakers.

Evan Hafer 6:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:25 You never know when some- 'cause, like, the kayakers, they like to go, like, real close to the shore.

Evan Hafer 6:30 Well, yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:30 And it's like, if you hear, "Ah!"

Evan Hafer 6:32 [laughing] Yeah.

Speaker 6:35 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 6:35 Like, fuck, that would suck. Oh, my God, I'd be in such deep shit.

Evan Hafer 6:40 I-

Joe Rogan 6:40 I would never do it. I, I wouldn't-

Evan Hafer 6:41 You would be in such-

Joe Rogan 6:42 I just wouldn't-

Evan Hafer 6:43 Yeah. Deep shit.

Joe Rogan 6:44 Deepest-

Evan Hafer 6:45 Yeah

Joe Rogan 6:45 ... of deep shit.

Evan Hafer 6:45 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 6:46 An asshole like me is always-

Evan Hafer 6:47 Yeah

Joe Rogan 6:47 ... promoting archery. I, I shoot a kayaker with a field tip right to the-

Evan Hafer 6:50 Oh, my God

Joe Rogan 6:50 ... fucking forehead. [laughing]

Evan Hafer 6:53 You, you-

Joe Rogan 6:53 Some poor lady

Evan Hafer 6:54 ... like-

Joe Rogan 6:56 Like fucking-

Evan Hafer 6:56 Like a unicorn-

Joe Rogan 6:57 Oh!

Evan Hafer 6:57 -running through, running off the river.

Joe Rogan 6:59 Oh, God.

Evan Hafer 7:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:00 Oh, my God. I, I very rarely... I mean, if I'm shooting broadheads, I really know where I'm going.

Evan Hafer 7:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:07 I, I don't, I don't fuck around. But with field tips, I'll, I'll launch some bombs, but it's never in an area where there's anything behind me.

Evan Hafer 7:14 No.

Joe Rogan 7:15 I don't... It's too, too risky.

Evan Hafer 7:17 I had- so I had a archery, little archery range in the back of my Salt Lake City-

Joe Rogan 7:21 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 7:21 ... building, and every, like... And I used to let everybody use it in the company. And then after you've worked for the company for a while, you'd get your choice. You'd get, like, a staccato or a rifle or a bow, and then we're doing... We still do, right? We still do a lot of veteran adaptive athlete shoots, and the tactical or tactical games, and the total archery challenges. So I've given away 100 bows, probably-

Joe Rogan 7:45 Oh, that's awesome

Evan Hafer 7:46 ... in the company.

Joe Rogan 7:47 Do you let them-

Evan Hafer 7:48 Here's the problem

Joe Rogan 7:48 ... pick their brand and the whole deal?

Evan Hafer 7:49 No, no, no. We partner, we partnered with Hoyt on the last batch.

Joe Rogan 7:53 Oh, cool.

Evan Hafer 7:53 Then we partnered with PSE. We partnered with kind of-

Joe Rogan 7:55 Oh, nice

Evan Hafer 7:55 ... anybody that wants to, like, go in 50/50 on us, right?

Joe Rogan 7:59 Oh, great.

Evan Hafer 7:59 Like, and, um-

Joe Rogan 8:00 That's awesome.

Evan Hafer 8:01 But then we'll make them Black Rifle custom, right?

Joe Rogan 8:03 Mm.

Evan Hafer 8:03 So it's cool camouflage, a little branding on it. But here's the downside to that, is when you got a bunch of people shooting in the back, and I had a storage facility in the back, there were always arrows in the-

Joe Rogan 8:15 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 8:15 ... in this, like, storage unit. [chuckles] And so finally, my, my, uh, our general counsel came to me and he's like, "No more. You gotta stop. You can't shoot any more arrows." So I banned it for everybody except for me. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 8:27 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 8:28 Me, Logan, you know, Matt, basically the people that could either absorb the legal fees or at least, like, explain it away.

Joe Rogan 8:35 Well, the thing about archery is, it's such a- it's, it's a skill that 100% degrades.

Evan Hafer 8:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:42 Like, you have to stay on it.

Evan Hafer 8:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:43 And you just can't trust that everyone's staying on it.

Evan Hafer 8:47 No. It's, it's even hard for me if I take three weeks off or-

Joe Rogan 8:51 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 8:52 I was, I was having that, um, [lips smack] a little bit of tendonitis in my left elbow, so I took, like, a month off after hunting season. And like, you put it back in your hand, and it feels almost like a foreign object.

Joe Rogan 9:04 I know.

Evan Hafer 9:05 It feels horrible.

Joe Rogan 9:06 Mm.

Evan Hafer 9:06 It's, it's just gross. Until you have at least three or four days of shooting consistently back into the groove-

Joe Rogan 9:14 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 9:14 ... you can't put the arrow where you want. It, it's just three weeks off, and it's okay.

Joe Rogan 9:18 And it feels to me, like, the more consistent I am in off-season, like, the entire year-

Evan Hafer 9:25 Mm

Joe Rogan 9:25 ... that's the- those are the years that I, where I'm really shooting my best. You can't just get back on the bow, like, a month before you have to go hunt. You can't do it.

Evan Hafer 9:35 I can't. I know guys that can, uh, guys that I grew up with that have been shooting since, you know, they were nine. That's what they do.

Joe Rogan 9:42 Right, but they're really good shots.

Evan Hafer 9:43 They're amazing.

Joe Rogan 9:43 Imagine how good they would be if they did it all the time.

Evan Hafer 9:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:46 Like, a guy like Cam, like, he's not taking any time off, like-

Evan Hafer 9:49 No

Joe Rogan 9:49 ... he's, he's shooting every day. Period.

Evan Hafer 9:51 But that's part... He, he, he takes pleasure in the pain, too.

Joe Rogan 9:54 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 9:54 He doesn't take time off because he's- [laughing]

Joe Rogan 9:57 That would be relaxing.

Evan Hafer 9:58 Yeah, it'd be relaxing. Like, imagine wa-

Joe Rogan 10:00 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 10:01 Just, just imagine that, like, Cam Hanes on vacation, his feet up, you know, drinking on the beach. Is that even, like, a-

Joe Rogan 10:07 No.

Evan Hafer 10:08 It- that's not even a thing.

Joe Rogan 10:09 I've gone on vacation with him.

Evan Hafer 10:10 Have you really?

Joe Rogan 10:11 Yeah, but when we went vacationing in, uh, Lanai, where we could bow hunt.

Evan Hafer 10:15 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:15 So we would bow hunt at least once a day, 'cause Lanai, you know you've been.

Evan Hafer 10:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:20 You've been. It's crazy.

Evan Hafer 10:21 Yeah, it's awesome.

Joe Rogan 10:21 It's one of the craziest places on Earth.

Evan Hafer 10:22 Mm, great.

Joe Rogan 10:23 For people that don't know, there's 3,000 people and 30,000 deer.

Evan Hafer 10:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:27 And they were given, uh, by, uh, King Kameha- uh, to King Kamehameha by the, um, whoever the head dude was in India. He's like, uh, he gave him a gift of axis deer.

Evan Hafer 10:37 Is that where they came from?

Joe Rogan 10:38 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 10:39 I didn't realize that-

Joe Rogan 10:40 Yeah

Evan Hafer 10:40 ... that had, that was the actual timeline.

Joe Rogan 10:42 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 10:42 I didn't realize that.

Joe Rogan 10:43 Yeah, and they're everywhere. They tried, they-

Evan Hafer 10:46 They're amazing

Joe Rogan 10:46 ... they tried to reintroduce them, uh, try to introduce them to the Big Island. Like, I know Shane Dorian was all pumped about it-

Evan Hafer 10:51 Mm

Joe Rogan 10:51 ... but then they eradicated them. People killed them. They said they were invasive, but-

Evan Hafer 10:55 I think they need to be everywhere they can be.

Joe Rogan 10:57 They're delicious.

Evan Hafer 10:57 They're delicious. [chuckles] They're the most delicious meat.

Joe Rogan 11:01 Of the deer.

Evan Hafer 11:01 Of course.

Joe Rogan 11:02 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 11:02 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:02 Next to elk. It's like, it's, for me, it's elk and then-

Evan Hafer 11:05 Mm

Joe Rogan 11:05 ... axis. But axis are the most challenging to hunt. They're the fastest-

Evan Hafer 11:09 100%

Joe Rogan 11:09 ... things I've ever seen in my life.

Evan Hafer 11:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:10 They move so fast, it doesn't even make sense. It's like, "W- how are you doing that?" You could dodge an arrow from 30 yards away, and the arrow's not even close to them when it h- when it gets there.

Evan Hafer 11:19 I had a female bedded at 30, and she jumped the string on her bed at 30 yards.

Joe Rogan 11:26 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 11:26 That, that was my first shot. [laughing] I realized, "Holy shit-"

Joe Rogan 11:31 Yeah, they're different.

Evan Hafer 11:31 "... I've gotta up my game."

Joe Rogan 11:33 Well, it's like they evolved with tigers.

Evan Hafer 11:35 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:36 Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, you gotta be able to go. You wanna survive?

Evan Hafer 11:38 Can you imagine how tough you would be if you, [laughing] if you evolved with tigers?

Joe Rogan 11:43 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 11:43 That would be sick.

Joe Rogan 11:45 Yeah. Well, that's the problem with America, period. It's like, there's not enough... There's too many people running around with zero physical challenges, and they're so soft. Like, there's a giant percentage of our population that is so soft. And if, like, if there was like a- if the world went nuclear, we lost everything, and then it was, like, hand-to-hand battles, every country could invade America-

Evan Hafer 12:13 Every country

Joe Rogan 12:13 ... if we ran out of bullets.

Evan Hafer 12:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:14 Once we run out of bullets, every country can fuck us up.

Evan Hafer 12:17 Yeah.... right? You can walk around. I think, well, that's, you know, w- with coffee, right? The best coffee shops are, like, [chuckles] there's so much stuff on Instagram, it's so funny. 'Cause, uh, you walk into a coffee shop, and if you see the craziest-looking freak, it's gonna have the best coffee. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 12:32 Yeah. [laughing] What is it about baristas?

Evan Hafer 12:34 I don't know, but it's the same-

Joe Rogan 12:35 They're just so left-wing weirdo, fucking lip rings.

Evan Hafer 12:40 Like, oh, yeah. Yeah, how many nose rings do you have?

Joe Rogan 12:42 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 12:42 How, like, how many colors do you have in your hair, and how many pronouns do you have?

Joe Rogan 12:46 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 12:46 'Cause that's like, you're gonna make [chuckles] the greatest espresso I've ever had. And that's the joke, right? 'Cause I'll go cruise around, like, in Austin for the last couple weeks-

Joe Rogan 12:56 Yeah, you see a dude who's-

Evan Hafer 12:57 ... you-

Joe Rogan 12:57 -jacked with a hand tattoo, he's gonna make you a bullshit coffee. [laughing]

Evan Hafer 13:00 It's like, "I can make you pour over... I mean, I can just pour it over," you know? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 13:05 [laughing] Yeah.

Evan Hafer 13:05 Like, "What?"

Joe Rogan 13:05 He'll make you some cowboy coffee.

Evan Hafer 13:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:07 He's got a fucking, one of them tin pots that you put on the fire.

Evan Hafer 13:10 Take his sock off or something.

Joe Rogan 13:12 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 13:12 Like, I, I... I'm good. I'm all set, man. Yeah, I'm all set.

Joe Rogan 13:15 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 13:17 Yeah, one hundred percent.

Joe Rogan 13:17 What is it about baristas? Like, how did that become such a left-wing safe place?

Evan Hafer 13:23 Uh, you know, I don't know. I think it, I think the origin of it comes from San Francisco, Seattle, right? All the, uh, we'll say the left-wing, left coast, all of the woke-ism-

Joe Rogan 13:34 Hubs.

Evan Hafer 13:35 Yeah, because-

Joe Rogan 13:36 Yeah

Evan Hafer 13:36 ... that also drove most of what I would say is the third and fourth wave. 'Cause there's one, two, three, four basic waves in coffee, but fourth, third and fourth wave are the most recent. And fourth wave would be considered single origin, very lightly roasted coffees, and you've been to these coffee shops. You know what they look like.

Joe Rogan 13:56 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 13:56 [chuckles] It takes you 15 minutes to get, get a cup of coffee. They typically won't even talk to you. They look down at the computer screen, but it's gonna be decent coffee, right? So if you go first wave, which is gonna be like Folgers, Maxwell House, that's, like, been around for 100 years. That's a commodity coffee. It's gonna have Robusta. It's gonna be darker roasted. That's gonna be first wave.

Joe Rogan 14:19 Mm.

Evan Hafer 14:19 And then, uh, second wave would be experiential, so it'd be more like Starbucks. Kinda second wave would be experiential, dark. And then third wave would be more artisan, micro lot, single origin. And then fourth wave is kind of a mix of the, the best in third wave that really activates your senses, in the sense of, like, now they're doing anaerobics, so they're using things from, like, wine and beer, and they're developing all these different profiles. But that artisan craft, the genesis in, like, San Francisco and Seattle from third wave, they took on identity polli- politics and then drove it through the trade.

Joe Rogan 15:01 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 15:01 It's pretty impressive. It's so, it's so weird, because if you go anywhere, you can get amazing cups of coffee. You're just gonna, like, wade through the wokeism to go get it.

Joe Rogan 15:10 Yeah. I can't go there.

Evan Hafer 15:12 No.

Joe Rogan 15:13 I was at a, a Starbucks the other day, and two lesbians walked in. They saw me, and they left. [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 15:17 What? [laughing] That's how bad it was?

Joe Rogan 15:20 They said, "We can't, we can't do this."

Evan Hafer 15:22 Seriously?

Joe Rogan 15:23 And they, they looked in, in my face, and they said, "We can't do this," and they left. I was like, "I'm a big fan."

Evan Hafer 15:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:28 "Big fan of your work."

Evan Hafer 15:29 [chuckles] Big fan of your work.

Joe Rogan 15:31 I had a cup of coffee from Starbucks the other... Which I rarely go into, but I was with my family, and, uh, it was so bad. A cup of black coffee. That's all I drink. I don't put anything in it.

Evan Hafer 15:41 No.

Joe Rogan 15:41 I was like, "This is, like, not drinkable. It tastes like shit."

Evan Hafer 15:45 Mm.

Joe Rogan 15:45 Which is like, everybody throws a bunch of cream in there and a bunch of sugar in there, and you get your caffeine, and it tastes like what you like.

Evan Hafer 15:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:51 But when... If you just try to just drink coffee at Starbucks, it is such a bad product, and that's- that doesn't have to be like that.

Evan Hafer 16:01 Well, it's, i- [exhale] part of the problem is, is-

Joe Rogan 16:03 It's burnt

Evan Hafer 16:04 ... when they over-roast it-

Joe Rogan 16:05 Yeah

Evan Hafer 16:05 ... because they know it's gonna have cream and sugar in it, and-

Joe Rogan 16:08 But why over-roast it then?

Evan Hafer 16:10 Because you can make a consistent profile, and it's just consistently very dark and extremely acidic, basically, and that becomes the consistency in the product that's-

Joe Rogan 16:23 Do you think people f- have this thing in their head that the darker the coffee is, the stronger it is?

Evan Hafer 16:27 Yeah, of course. That's one of the huge misconceptions, right?

Joe Rogan 16:29 Right.

Evan Hafer 16:30 So, like, it, y- let's just bucket the misconceptions in here, which is, you know, coffee is not a bean, it's a fruit. So it's a cherry, and then you roast the pit. So the second one would probably be, um, the darker you roast something, the more caffeine it's gonna have, which is absolutely not the case, because you get-

Joe Rogan 16:46 It's the opposite.

Evan Hafer 16:46 It's, it's completely opposite, because you got two genetic strains. You've got Robusta and Arabica. Robusta is a smaller bean. It's got more caffeine. It's also more bitter. Arabica probably constitutes probably 60 to 70% of the world's coffee, but it's more flavor, it's got less, uh, caffeine, and it's less acidic in general. And then when you over-roast it, you can kind of combine multiple lots, multiple, well, variants of Arabica.

Joe Rogan 17:16 Oh, I see.

Evan Hafer 17:17 And then you can consistent- you can make this consistent profile.

Joe Rogan 17:20 So it consistently sucks?

Evan Hafer 17:22 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, but if you're gonna put cream and sugar in it-

Joe Rogan 17:25 Yeah

Evan Hafer 17:25 ... nobody cares, because they're like, "I just need something that's gonna serve as a caffeine, uh, vehicle for my cream and sugar."

Joe Rogan 17:34 I know, but wouldn't that be okay if you just had good coffee and did that-

Evan Hafer 17:38 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 17:38 ... and didn't burn it?

Evan Hafer 17:40 Well, I do. I, I think that's where third, third wave and fourth wave, it's more directly related to the quality of the coffee. It's no cream, no sugar, and it's more-

Joe Rogan 17:53 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 17:53 ... first and second wave, it's cream and sugar. 'Cause you're, you're gonna have to cover up the inconsistencies.

Joe Rogan 17:58 Well, some people just like it anyway, because what they're getting is a treat.

Evan Hafer 18:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:01 It's not... They're not thinking of it as like, "I'm drinking coffee." Like, they're getting a treat.

Evan Hafer 18:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 18:06 Like, if you have order a Frappuccino-

Evan Hafer 18:08 That's a milkshake.

Joe Rogan 18:09 It's a milkshake.

Evan Hafer 18:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:10 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 18:10 It's-

Joe Rogan 18:10 There's tons of sugar-

Evan Hafer 18:12 Yeah

Joe Rogan 18:12 ... tons of caffeine, too. You're like, "Ah!"

Evan Hafer 18:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 18:14 Sitting in your cubicle. [laughing]

Evan Hafer 18:16 [chuckles] You've got, like, 100 grams of sugar, 200 milligrams of caffeine.

Joe Rogan 18:20 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 18:20 You're, like, you're, you're skyrocketing with just energy until you crash, and then you need another one anyhow.

Joe Rogan 18:26 Yeah, and then you're just doing that all day and frying your central nervous system, and then when you get out of work, you just die. You just go home and just, "Ooh."

Evan Hafer 18:32 Go home and melt on the couch, and you-

Joe Rogan 18:34 Yeah

Evan Hafer 18:34 ... watch some sports, man.

Joe Rogan 18:36 Yeah, your insulin's-... all fucked up, you're falling asleep. [laughing] Like it just-

Evan Hafer 18:40 [laughing] The coffee-

Joe Rogan 18:42 It's the best.

Evan Hafer 18:42 The coffee nerd conversations just put half the fucking audience to sleep, too.

Joe Rogan 18:46 I don't care!

Evan Hafer 18:48 Right? [laughing] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:48 I don't care.

Evan Hafer 18:49 Yeah, yeah. It's so funny, man. I'll start talking about it, I'm like, "Eh, I should not." 'Cause I was a comms guy th- back in, in my previous profession, my previous life, and it's so funny because when you talk about communications and just technology in general, and you start analyzing, like, you know, frequencies and, and, uh, spectrum analyzers or whatever, whatever you wanna talk about, people's eyes would just glaze over in the team room.

Joe Rogan 19:16 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 19:16 And I'd be like, "All right, well, do you guys wanna go blow some shit up?" Like- [laughing] "... why don't we shift the topic? Because you guys-

Joe Rogan 19:22 Yeah

Evan Hafer 19:22 ... don't wanna talk about this. I know you don't wanna hear about it." So in cross-training, it's just, you try to keep people awake, basically.

Joe Rogan 19:30 This episode is brought to you by ROKA, and this is important, so don't skip this. I've been wearing ROKAs for years, and I absolutely love them. Of all the glasses brands out there, I choose ROKA. ROKA shit just works different. You'll notice it from the first time you put them on their face. They feel great. I can run around in them, they never fall off your head. They're super high quality, lightweight, super comfortable, and they stay on your damn face. Even if you're sweaty, they stay in place even better. They don't slip. Gym stuff,

Joe Rogan 20:00 kettlebells, yoga, sprints, chasing the dog, whatever you're into. It could be just leaning over to pick up your kids, everything stays on your face and feels great, with crystal clear optics. Check 'em out and feel the difference for yourself. To help you get started, ROKA is offering JRE listeners 20% off your order, so go to roka.com. Well, there's a lot of people that have a hard time focusing on something that isn't exciting-

Evan Hafer 20:28 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 20:28 ... for whatever reason, even if it's, like, important technical details that'll help you do things that are exciting. You know, it's, it's the g- delayed gratification.

Evan Hafer 20:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:36 They're the same type of people that d- don't like to do cold plunges or don't like to do certain things that, like, you're not gonna feel an immediate benefit. It's gonna suck while you're doing it, so you put it off. Like, you gotta... You've gotta have a mindset that there's some things that suck that will make the things that are exciting way better.

Evan Hafer 20:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:53 Like, for comics, it's writing, like sitting down and writing. You know, I w- because a lot of comics don't wanna write, they just wanna come out with ideas through the day and then work 'em out on stage. I'm like, "That is great. You can do that, but you should also write, because the ideas that come to you while you're writing-

Evan Hafer 21:08 Right

Joe Rogan 21:08 ... they won't come any other way. And those are like little gifts from the universe, and you... The only way you get 'em is you gotta sit down with a fucking pad of paper or a computer in front of you and come up with them. You gotta sit down and start working and let the mind just-

Evan Hafer 21:21 Yeah

Joe Rogan 21:22 ... just slowly but surely pop 'em out.

Evan Hafer 21:25 How, how often do you do that?

Joe Rogan 21:27 At least four days a week.

Evan Hafer 21:29 For an hour, two hours?

Joe Rogan 21:31 Yeah, yeah, at least, at least an hour. I try to write 1,000 words, so it, it might be an hour, it might be two hours, and then out of those 1,000 words, I might get a paragraph, like, "There it is."

Evan Hafer 21:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:41 "That's what I was looking for." You're basically looking for arrowheads in a field.

Evan Hafer 21:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:46 You know, you're picking up a giant clump of dirt and you're shaking it out or washing it over and, "Ah, got one!"

Evan Hafer 21:52 So do you try that out on anybody before you actually-

Joe Rogan 21:54 No.

Evan Hafer 21:54 No, you're just like-

Joe Rogan 21:55 No

Evan Hafer 21:55 ... "Okay, this is the concept."

Joe Rogan 21:56 I'm pretty sure I got something. When I got something-

Evan Hafer 21:59 Right. Yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 21:59 ... I'm pretty sure I got it, but I don't know what it's gonna be until the audience tells me. Like-

Evan Hafer 22:03 When you have your own club, so you can just try it out.

Joe Rogan 22:05 That helps. Yeah, that helps a lot. [laughing]

Evan Hafer 22:06 [laughing] You just, like, drive in. "It's Wednesday, let me try this out."

Joe Rogan 22:08 But even when I didn't, I would go to the store, I would go to the... Like, say, if I have a, a bit and it's exciting, I'm like, "Oh, I wrote something that's good," I would go to the improv and then I'd go to the store, and maybe I'd go to the Ice House.

Evan Hafer 22:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:19 I'd bang out a few sets, at least two in a night, some... You know, you could travel around. Like, LA was really good for that. Austin's amazing for that. There's seven clubs on my street now.

Evan Hafer 22:29 What?

Joe Rogan 22:30 Oh, yeah, between my street and the neighboring streets. So you got us, and then right down the street is the Sunset Room-

Evan Hafer 22:36 Mm

Joe Rogan 22:36 ... which, uh, Red Ban owns, and then right across from that, you got Creek and the Cave, which is awesome, and then you got the Vulcan, which is right down the street.

Evan Hafer 22:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:44 And there's a bunch of other small rooms. There's the Black Rabbit. There's all these rooms that have comedy at least three or four nights a week. So if you're, like, a guy or a girl coming up right now in Austin-

Evan Hafer 22:54 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 22:54 ... you could really work. You could work... And they're all paying, so you're- you know, you're collecting 50 bucks here. My club pays more, my club pays the most, but all these different places, they pay, you know, like, actual money for you-

Evan Hafer 23:05 Right

Joe Rogan 23:05 ... to do a set. At the end of the night, you got a few hundred bucks, you can get something to eat. Like, there's all these comics that don't have to do the road now.

Evan Hafer 23:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:13 So, like, they used to just have to do the road to pay their rent and for food, and you don't have to do that anymore. You could, like, stay in town and really build up material and then go out on the road.

Evan Hafer 23:22 Is, is the material gonna shift? I know it's... Like, regionally, you've gotta have your, your... I'm not saying, like, left or right. I'm just saying, does the material have to shift based on where you're at? So if you're in LA-

Joe Rogan 23:33 Sometimes, yeah

Evan Hafer 23:34 ... is the crowd a little bit different? The people are gonna be more accepting, less accepting, expect something a little bit different than here?

Joe Rogan 23:42 You can't think of that.

Evan Hafer 23:42 You can't-

Joe Rogan 23:43 Nah.

Evan Hafer 23:43 You're just like-

Joe Rogan 23:43 Nah, nah, nah

Evan Hafer 23:43 ... "Here's the joke-"

Joe Rogan 23:44 Yeah

Evan Hafer 23:44 ... "let me run it."

Joe Rogan 23:45 Well, the good thing is if they're not accepting of an idea, maybe you should reexamine that idea-

Evan Hafer 23:51 Uh

Joe Rogan 23:51 ... and maybe figure out, like, "Why am I... Maybe I should figure out a better way to make this idea acceptable."

Evan Hafer 23:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 23:57 You know, because there's ideas where I'll start it off, and it's just like, "Ooh, this is, this isn't going anywhere." And then I'm like, "There's gotta be an angle in here." And then I'll find a whole nother angle, and I'm like, "Ha-ha! Now I have it." And then I have to find an angle, like, what if I was a woman and I was watching this, and I'm looking at this fucking meathead on stage? And I'm like, "Okay, like, I gotta figure out a way to get them to understand that just 'cause I look like this doesn't mean I'm a bad guy."

Evan Hafer 24:22 Right, right. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 24:22 Like, like, let me, like, work this into your head first and then explain it from my perspective.

Evan Hafer 24:28 It's funny, 'cause I look like this, it doesn't mean I'm a bad guy. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 24:31 [laughing] Well, it's an automatic assumption.

Evan Hafer 24:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:34 You know? I mean, it's a, an untold prejudice that, like, men with muscles in particular are assholes-

Evan Hafer 24:41 Right

Joe Rogan 24:41 ... like, instantly.

Evan Hafer 24:42 Yeah, you're- you've got a, you've got a very definitive look, and then as soon as you open your mouth, they're assuming that you're gonna be just the-

Joe Rogan 24:49 Yeah

Evan Hafer 24:50 ... complete asshole.

Joe Rogan 24:51 Right.

Evan Hafer 24:51 Yeah, yeah, I can see that.

Joe Rogan 24:52 Just a, a mean person-

Evan Hafer 24:53 Yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 24:53 ... you know, covered in tattoos-

Evan Hafer 24:55 So-

Joe Rogan 24:56 Cage fighting competitor.

Evan Hafer 24:58 Do you... I, I know that you can craft a joke because you've been doing this for forever, but is there a certain amount of pleasure that you get now from-... bombing sometimes? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 25:08 [laughing] Smoking in?

Evan Hafer 25:10 No.

Joe Rogan 25:10 It's terrible!

Evan Hafer 25:11 Really?

Joe Rogan 25:11 I always say bombing on stage is like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother.

Evan Hafer 25:15 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 25:15 But the difference is, like, there's probably a guy out there that likes sucking a thousand dicks in front of his mother.

Evan Hafer 25:19 Yeah, okay.

Joe Rogan 25:20 "You made me do this, Mom."

Evan Hafer 25:21 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 25:21 "Come on, Mom. [laughing] 99! [growls] "

Evan Hafer 25:25 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 25:25 There's a guy out there that would, like, take some... I mean, there's people who are into shit porn and all kinds of nutty things. [laughing]

Evan Hafer 25:30 [laughing] Yeah, there's-

Joe Rogan 25:32 You know, there's-

Evan Hafer 25:32 [chuckles] You're, you're, you're drawing the same parallel to, like, bombing and people who are into shit porn. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 25:37 Yeah, if you like bombing, you could- you're into people shitting in your mouth. Like-

Evan Hafer 25:40 Oh, right

Joe Rogan 25:41 ... it's not fun. You don't want people to have a bad time.

Evan Hafer 25:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:43 They're there to have fun. These people work. [clears throat]

Evan Hafer 25:45 Yeah, right.

Joe Rogan 25:46 They're working all day, they're fucking tired.

Evan Hafer 25:47 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:48 You want them to have a-

Evan Hafer 25:49 Yeah

Joe Rogan 25:49 ... good-ass time, and the only way for them to have a good-ass time is for you to do your job.

Evan Hafer 25:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:54 You know, but it's, uh, it has to sometimes not work well, and there's, like, this moment when I'm about to do a new bit, I'm like, "God, I don't even wanna do this. I don't know where this goes." But I have to! You gotta trot it out there and, and hope that you could find an angle.

Evan Hafer 26:10 So you don't try those on, on your, uh, like, like, with your wife or anything? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 26:14 [laughing] Oh, she'd be the worst!

Evan Hafer 26:15 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 26:15 She'd be the worst.

Evan Hafer 26:16 She'd just tear you down?

Joe Rogan 26:17 She would just stare at me like, "What are- what is wrong with you?" [laughing]

Evan Hafer 26:20 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 26:24 It's like, w- she and I have a very good balance, 'cause she's so different than me. She's so... But has a lot of the same values as me.

Evan Hafer 26:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:31 You know, like discipline, and she's-

Evan Hafer 26:33 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 26:33 ... very smart, and she's interested in things, but she- we, we're very different.

Evan Hafer 26:37 Well, it's so funny, 'cause my, my wife and I we- we'll walk around, right? And I'm a very amateur comedian just around my friends. I try to... I try really hard, right?

Joe Rogan 26:46 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 26:46 I'm not even close. I'm just, like-

Joe Rogan 26:48 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 26:48 ... You know, I specialize in stupid shit that I say.

Joe Rogan 26:50 Right.

Evan Hafer 26:50 Basically, that's where I'm going with this. And she, when I get her to laugh, that's like, that means way more to me than, than like-

Joe Rogan 26:59 Oh, yeah

Evan Hafer 27:00 ... But my friends, sure, I can make them laugh. Like, I can make my employees laugh. I kind of pay them to, you know?

Joe Rogan 27:06 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 27:06 But, like, when my wife laughs, that means it's fucking funny.

Joe Rogan 27:09 That's legit.

Evan Hafer 27:10 Like, it means-

Joe Rogan 27:11 Yeah

Evan Hafer 27:11 ... it means something, right?

Joe Rogan 27:12 Yeah, yeah.

Evan Hafer 27:12 It's like, it's legit. She's like a one-person crowd, right? So we were walking around, I was talking about, um... Have you seen that Bert Kreischer, Freebert, have you seen his new series?

Joe Rogan 27:21 I've only seen the trailers, but everybody-

Evan Hafer 27:23 Mm

Joe Rogan 27:23 ... that saw it loves it.

Evan Hafer 27:24 It's, it's, it's really funny, man. Like, and so I, I was like: "We should watch this. You should check it out." She watched, like, five minutes. She's like: "This is such a dude show. Fuck you, I'm never watching this." [laughing]

Joe Rogan 27:35 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 27:35 Like... But it's the same! It's like what I wanna watch-

Joe Rogan 27:37 Woo!

Evan Hafer 27:37 ... and I think is funny, she's like, "Absolutely not." But then she's- wants to watch some, like, true crime thing around a, you know-

Joe Rogan 27:44 Kids love that

Evan Hafer 27:45 ... a dude that killed his wife. And I'm like-

Joe Rogan 27:47 They love that.

Evan Hafer 27:47 They love it. Why?

Joe Rogan 27:48 Why do they love that?

Evan Hafer 27:50 It's so weird.

Joe Rogan 27:51 It's, like, genetic that they love it, 'cause my kids love those shows.

Evan Hafer 27:54 Really?

Joe Rogan 27:55 They love serial killer expose shows and all these true crimes.

Evan Hafer 28:00 And I don't like any of that.

Joe Rogan 28:01 I was talking to my daughter about it, and she said, "Because girls don't do things like this, so we kind of wanna see, like, what's going on in a man's mind that makes him..."

Evan Hafer 28:11 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 28:11 It's a- such a mystery. You know what I'm saying?

Evan Hafer 28:14 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 28:14 Like, it's such a mystery. Like, most men can imagine a scenario where there's a bunch of people that did some horrible shit in a room, and you just go in there and fucking kill all of them.

Evan Hafer 28:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:28 Most men-

Evan Hafer 28:29 Yeah

Joe Rogan 28:29 ... most men can say, "Oh yeah, there's a place."

Evan Hafer 28:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:31 "There's a place. Like, if someone did something, and I knew they did something, and they're in that room, and they need to go, they need to go."

Evan Hafer 28:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:38 Most women can't think like that.

Evan Hafer 28:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:40 They don't, they don't think like that. It's not inside their head. And then there's the darkness of it. Like, these aren't men that are doing something to someone who deserves it. They're just doing it to vulnerable people. They're just evil creatures who just wanna go out and hunt vulnerable people. And I think women want to know that there are men like that out there, that are so different than them, so they can put it in their head, like, "Okay, serial killers are real."

Evan Hafer 29:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:06 "Like, these true crime shows have shown me this, and I wanna know, like, what to look for."

Evan Hafer 29:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:13 That's what I think.

Evan Hafer 29:13 Whereas, have you ever spent a second of your life in fear or fearing a serial killer?

Joe Rogan 29:19 Not really. [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 29:19 [chuckles] No.

Joe Rogan 29:21 No.

Evan Hafer 29:21 It's not a realistic fear.

Joe Rogan 29:22 But if I was at a truck stop, and there was some fucking shady dude that came into the bathroom after me, and he was, like, waiting outside-

Evan Hafer 29:30 Right

Joe Rogan 29:31 ... and didn't look like he needed to use the bathroom, I would be 100% on guard. Like, uh, there's people that will just randomly kill people just for a thrill and get away with it.

Evan Hafer 29:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:41 And I think there's way more of them getting away with it than they'd like us to know. Like, here's a, here's a good example: in Austin, what is the actual number of people who have, uh, bodies that have been found in Lake... Put, put this into our wonderful sponsor, Perplexity, before it becomes the digital god that takes over the universe, this AI. Um, what are the numbers of people that, uh, have been found drowned in Lady Bird Lake over the last three years? It's something crazy.

Evan Hafer 30:14 Is it really?

Joe Rogan 30:15 Yeah, it's like 30.

Evan Hafer 30:15 [clears throat] I thought this was just a funny joke for Tony to talk about-

Joe Rogan 30:18 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no

Evan Hafer 30:19 ... landing in the-

Joe Rogan 30:20 No, it's not a real thing

Evan Hafer 30:21 ... No, no, no, no, no.

Joe Rogan 30:21 It's real.

Evan Hafer 30:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:22 It's real. So the cops don't wanna say it's a serial killer. They think there's... It's 'cause it's over by Rainey Street-

Evan Hafer 30:27 Mm

Joe Rogan 30:27 ... a lot of people are partying, but there's, the bodies keep piling up, 38.

Evan Hafer 30:32 [chuckles] What?

Joe Rogan 30:33 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 30:33 And they, they wanna say it's not a serial killer?

Joe Rogan 30:36 Since 2022, data showing-

Evan Hafer 30:39 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 30:39 ... at least 38 bodies found in or around Lady Bird Lake. Um, separate map-based analysis of, uh, Lady Bird Lake deaths, downtown area reports four deaths in 2022, five in 2023, five in 2024, two in 2025. The, so this is downtown area. These map numbers focus on a specific stretch of the lake, while the 38 body figures covers all bodies found in or around the lake in that period.

Evan Hafer 31:11 These might be right near that bar area on Rainey Street.

Joe Rogan 31:13 Right, right on Rainey Street.

Evan Hafer 31:14 Versus 38.

Joe Rogan 31:15 ... or other parts of the lake.

Evan Hafer 31:17 So they're basically saying these guys get drunk-

Joe Rogan 31:21 Yeah

Evan Hafer 31:21 ... and they end up passing out in the water.

Joe Rogan 31:24 I mean, w- all you would have to do is get someone drunk enough where you could hold them underwater.

Evan Hafer 31:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:30 It's not... I mean, if you were a guy who wasn't drinking, or you had a really good tolerance, or you're a big person. No evidence of serial murder.

Evan Hafer 31:38 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 31:39 Says the patterns match typical accidental drowning risks: young adult men, nightlife, easy water access. Or- [laughing]

Evan Hafer 31:49 [laughing] Or-

Joe Rogan 31:49 ... some guy was drowning gay guys.

Evan Hafer 31:52 Could be.

Joe Rogan 31:52 'Cause a lot of them are gay, like a giant percentage of these guys-

Evan Hafer 31:55 Seriously?

Joe Rogan 31:55 ... are gay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 'Cause it's near a gay area.

Evan Hafer 31:57 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 31:57 That's the gay- Rainy Street is, like, the party area where there's a lot of gay bars.

Evan Hafer 32:01 Got it.

Joe Rogan 32:02 And-

Evan Hafer 32:02 That's why it's such a funny joke for Tony.

Joe Rogan 32:04 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 32:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:04 Well, it's, it's a weird thing, man. It's a weird thing, because at what point in time does someone have to get caught before they say, "Oh, Jesus, these, these weren't just a coincidence. Someone was drowning people"? 'Cause I don't think it was a common thing. I think, like, you know, you maybe get one a year, some fucking drunk hops off a boat and doesn't know what he's doing and drowns.

Evan Hafer 32:25 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 32:25 That does happen, but this is not that. This is way more. Thirty-eight bodies in a few years is kind of kooky.

Evan Hafer 32:33 Well, and how many of those... If you think about it, right, how many serial killers are out there? 'Cause the FBI, obviously, they've done the analysis on it.

Joe Rogan 32:40 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 32:40 There's probably, like, uh, 100, 200, 300 active serial killers-

Joe Rogan 32:45 Well, let's, let's ask that

Evan Hafer 32:45 ... at any point in time.

Joe Rogan 32:46 Ask how many active? Always.

Evan Hafer 32:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:47 There's always, yeah, always has been.

Evan Hafer 32:49 And it- most of them will all say, "Yeah, I wanted to get caught," or, "Yeah, it took you long enough."

Joe Rogan 32:55 Right.

Evan Hafer 32:55 Like, "I was, I was getting sloppy," right? "My murder lust took over."

Joe Rogan 32:57 Before you... Uh, there was 200 since 2004.

Evan Hafer 33:01 Oh, my gosh.

Joe Rogan 33:01 Sh- what? [laughing]

Evan Hafer 33:06 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 33:06 Oh, my God! Autopsy report found alcohol present in a large share of the cases, sometimes at levels above the legal driving limit, which is not much, by the way.

Evan Hafer 33:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:15 The legal driving lim- limit is, like, two drinks. And police specifically descri- described most Rainy Street area drownings as alcohol or drug-related.

33:24 There's also, I've heard people getting, you know, dosed. They get, like, roofied and whatnot, and they're like... I, I've heard a lot, too many cases. Never in a city have I lived I've heard that many people saying they've been roofied.

33:34 Yeah. No, I, I think it's... I don't think it's, uh, specific to here. I think it's everywhere. It's GHB, I think, is a lot of it. People are dosing people up with GHB. That's a big one.

33:46 What's the... How many serial killers are there quit- now?

33:48 Yeah. Uh, how many active serial killers-

Evan Hafer 33:51 Yeah

Joe Rogan 33:51 ... do they estimate-

33:52 Oh

33:52 ... are in Am- in America right now? Let's guess.

Evan Hafer 33:56 Uh-

Joe Rogan 33:56 I'm gonna say 10.

Evan Hafer 33:57 You think 10?

Joe Rogan 33:58 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 33:58 I think 100.

Joe Rogan 33:59 Whoa!

Evan Hafer 34:00 Yeah, I'm going 100.

Joe Rogan 34:01 Whoa.

Evan Hafer 34:01 This is like a Wheel of Fortune type scenario.

Joe Rogan 34:03 Yeah, man. Holy shit, 100's nuts. If it's 100-

Evan Hafer 34:07 I think it's 100. That's got-

Joe Rogan 34:09 That's crazy.

34:10 300.

34:10 Interesting.

Evan Hafer 34:11 Huh?

Joe Rogan 34:14 25 to 50-

Evan Hafer 34:15 Whoa!

Joe Rogan 34:15 ... at any given time.

34:16 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 34:16 Wow, okay.

Joe Rogan 34:17 Wow! Range reflects killers who have committed at least two murders, with a cooling-off period, and are still operating undetected. I like the cooling-off period.

Evan Hafer 34:27 Yeah, yeah. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 34:27 Man, maybe I need to take a break.

Evan Hafer 34:29 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 34:29 You're scrubbing the fucking blood out of the inside of your fingernails.

Evan Hafer 34:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:33 Serial killings make up less than 1% of US homicides overall. Numbers peaked at around 300 in the 1970s and 1980s. There was 300 active serial killers-

Evan Hafer 34:42 Whoa

Joe Rogan 34:43 ... in the '70s and the '80s? I bet that was because that was when there was, like, Son of Sam, you know?

Evan Hafer 34:49 It was, like, trendy?

Joe Rogan 34:50 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 34:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:51 I think it was probably a lot of bored dudes who just didn't like working in an office, and they're like-

Evan Hafer 34:55 It's like Ted Bundy-

Joe Rogan 34:56 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 34:56 ... and Son of Sam. All those guys were, like, the Green River-

Joe Rogan 34:59 All over the news. All over the news.

Evan Hafer 35:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:01 It was huge. Why are there fewer serial killers now than there used to be? What was the answer?

35:10 That's probably just 'cause it's easier to get caught now, and people are probably more afraid to try. [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 35:13 Yeah, 'cause you think about all the technology and the surveillance-

Joe Rogan 35:16 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 35:16 ... like, you'll get rolled up.

Joe Rogan 35:17 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 35:17 You get a-

Joe Rogan 35:18 Well, I think the creepiest one was that dude who studied, um, serial killers in college, and then went and killed those girls at that dorm house. You know, you know that story? What, was that in Seattle?

Evan Hafer 35:30 I think it was Bundy.

Joe Rogan 35:31 Idaho?

Evan Hafer 35:32 But yeah, it was Ted Bundy, right?

Joe Rogan 35:33 No, no, no, a recent one.

Evan Hafer 35:34 Different?

Joe Rogan 35:34 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 35:34 Oh, it was recent?

Joe Rogan 35:35 Recent, yeah. Um, he knew the people that lived there. Uh, he studied... What did he study, exactly, in college? Like, he was studying it, like, he was trying to learn how to not get caught.

Evan Hafer 35:47 Whoa!

Joe Rogan 35:48 Yeah, this guy, this fucking freak.

Evan Hafer 35:49 Whoa!

Joe Rogan 35:50 He... Hor- horrific new details about the final moments of the four University of Ohio, Idaho stabbing victims.

Evan Hafer 35:55 Oh, gosh!

Joe Rogan 35:56 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 35:56 So that's where I went to school. That's the University of Idaho.

Joe Rogan 35:58 He stabbed the four-

Evan Hafer 35:59 Yeah

Joe Rogan 35:59 ... victims at least 150 times in total.

Evan Hafer 36:02 Yeah. I didn't realize-

Joe Rogan 36:03 Yeah

Evan Hafer 36:03 ... that was, like, the case from Moscow.

Joe Rogan 36:06 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 36:06 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 36:07 Jesus Christ.

Evan Hafer 36:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:08 This sick fuck. So this guy, he d- was studying it in college. So I forget what criminal justice, uh-

36:18 I thought I'd say it.

36:19 Let's see if, uh, we can find out. But it was very clear that he had been planning this a long time, and there was also a possible connection to him and some murders in the Pacific Northwest. That they... He knew the people. The people died in a kind of a similar way. He might have gotten away with it up there.

Evan Hafer 36:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:36 So he tried it up there, and then went to Idaho. [lips smack] This-

36:41 PhD criminology student.

Evan Hafer 36:42 Oh, my gosh!

Joe Rogan 36:43 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 36:43 Well, that makes sense.

Joe Rogan 36:44 It does.

Evan Hafer 36:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:45 Right? Yeah.

Evan Hafer 36:45 So he's, he's educating himself on how to get away with it.

Joe Rogan 36:49 He was that guy-

Evan Hafer 36:49 Yeah

Joe Rogan 36:49 ... that if, uh, you had your comms class, he'd be-

Evan Hafer 36:52 Mm

Joe Rogan 36:52 ... sitting there like this.

Evan Hafer 36:53 [laughing] He's, like, way into it.

Joe Rogan 36:55 Yeah, way into it.

Evan Hafer 36:56 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:56 Way into it.

Evan Hafer 36:56 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 36:57 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 36:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:57 Yeah, he wanna know all the details. And so-

Evan Hafer 36:59 The Pacific Northwest is like, that's a spot. These guys love it up there.

Joe Rogan 37:03 Absolutely.

Evan Hafer 37:03 I don't know if it's, like, the rain-

Joe Rogan 37:04 Crazy out there

Evan Hafer 37:04 ... you know, like-

Joe Rogan 37:05 Well, we had a lady that was connecting it. She came on the podcast, and she was connecting a bunch of serial killers from a very specific area that did a lot of... It was mining, right?... wasn't it mining and the, the, the, uh, industrial pollution?

Evan Hafer 37:19 Oh, so it was like increased-

Joe Rogan 37:21 Uh-huh

Evan Hafer 37:22 ... the increased lead or something, right, in the water or something?

Joe Rogan 37:24 Well, it was the, the, the, the processing of it. Like-

Evan Hafer 37:29 Oh, the-

Joe Rogan 37:30 What are those? The, when they're burning it.

Evan Hafer 37:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:33 What's that called?

Speaker 37:34 Le- lead leaching.

Evan Hafer 37:35 Leaching.

Speaker 37:35 It was lead, this-

Joe Rogan 37:36 Yeah, it was lead, but it was other stuff. It was other stuff like, oh, there's arsenic in it, and there's a lot of sh- but what, what am I looking for? Not... What is it- what, why, why can't I come up with that term? The plants where they burn all the shit. Power plants. What, what's the term? God damn it.

Speaker 37:53 Caroline Frazier-

Evan Hafer 37:53 Smelting? [chuckles]

Speaker 37:54 ... is her name, though. [chuckles] I don't know.

Joe Rogan 37:55 What's her name?

Speaker 37:56 Caroline Frazier.

Evan Hafer 37:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:57 Caroline Frazier.

Evan Hafer 37:58 Maybe, maybe Paul would know if he got Stamets on here-

Joe Rogan 38:01 Get that lady

Evan Hafer 38:01 ... and she could talk about, he could talk about the mushroom or the fungi in the Pacific Northwest. Maybe it has something to do with it. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 38:07 I don't think so.

Evan Hafer 38:07 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 38:07 I think that, that'll probably stop him from doing it.

Evan Hafer 38:09 Yeah. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 38:10 But her take was that there was all these, uh, places... What am I- what is the term I'm looking for, where they incinerate shit, like a power plant, like a coal plant? There's a term. I can't remember what it is.

Speaker 38:20 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 38:21 Anyway, um, they're releasing an incredible amount of toxins in the atmosphere, and a lot of the shit is coming down in rain. It's getting in the ground. All the ground around there is all polluted.

Evan Hafer 38:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:31 Everything's polluted. And so what her take is, that all these people have suffered chemical pollution, and a lot of that chemical pollution leads to all sorts of weird psychological disorders, and psychosis, and all kinds of shit, depending upon the levels of exposure.

Evan Hafer 38:47 So this is why you have an increase of serial killers in the Pacific Northwest?

Joe Rogan 38:52 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 38:52 This is interesting.

Joe Rogan 38:53 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 38:53 Okay.

Joe Rogan 38:53 Yeah, there was a bunch of power plants up there.

Evan Hafer 38:55 Mm, interesting.

Joe Rogan 38:55 Coal plants-

Evan Hafer 38:56 Yeah

Joe Rogan 38:56 ... and smelting and, you know, just a lot of mining. There's a lot of m- mineral-rich resources up there, and-

Evan Hafer 39:04 So I should be concerned, 'cause I spent-

Joe Rogan 39:05 Maybe

Evan Hafer 39:05 ... most of my life up there. Well, half of it, at least.

Joe Rogan 39:08 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 39:09 I-

Joe Rogan 39:09 It depends. I think now they've cleaned it up, though. Like, she was connecting it to a long time ago, but there's areas back there where she was saying that they, they do an analysis of the soil, and it's just completely fucked.

Evan Hafer 39:20 How long has it been since you've done, like, Seattle?

Joe Rogan 39:23 Oh, I haven't been back in a while.

Evan Hafer 39:26 Like-

Joe Rogan 39:26 I did the Tacoma Dome with Dave Chappelle. We did that right before the pandemic popped.

Evan Hafer 39:33 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 39:33 And I really haven't been back.

Evan Hafer 39:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:35 It's just, like, once that whole CHAZ thing went down-

Evan Hafer 39:39 Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 39:39 ... and they locked off the block, and the mayor said, "Maybe it's the summer of love." [chuckles] Uh, well, or, or maybe-

Evan Hafer 39:46 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 39:46 ... you've got some fucking crazy people that you've empowered to take over a giant swath of your city, and you're cool with it.

Evan Hafer 39:50 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:51 And you're the fucking mayor? And by the way, she is an upgrade compared to their current mayor.

Evan Hafer 39:56 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:56 The current mayor is... The, that choice is insane. Woman who's never held a real job. She's been living with her parents. She's 40. They pay her bills. She's a socialist. She rides a bike. She doesn't even own a car, and now she's in charge of what? A, a $7 billion budget? Like, what is-

Evan Hafer 40:12 That makes sense.

Joe Rogan 40:12 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 40:14 Yeah, I, I... Two thumbs up, Seattle.

Joe Rogan 40:15 Good job.

Evan Hafer 40:15 Congratulations.

Joe Rogan 40:16 Well, way to go.

Evan Hafer 40:17 [chuckles] You've done a great job.

Joe Rogan 40:19 I don't know where-

Evan Hafer 40:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 40:19 ... those places go, those places that have gone, like, full into Wokeville.

Evan Hafer 40:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:24 Like, a buddy of mine just went to Portland, and he was like: Bro, it's bananas! It's like a complete mental asylum, like, spilled out onto the streets. Not just the campers, not just the open-air drug users everywhere, because for a long time, they decriminalized everything in Portland.

Evan Hafer 40:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:41 So everybody ramped it up a notch and moved to Portland, because that was a place where you could do drugs and not worry about anything. But he, he was like, "All the regular people are cracked."

Evan Hafer 40:51 The place, like... Spending as much time as I have in Seattle, which I w- used to live there, I loved that city. Like, late '90s, loved it.

Joe Rogan 40:58 Oh, it was fucking great.

Evan Hafer 40:59 Amazing.

Joe Rogan 40:59 It was one of my favorite places to visit.

Evan Hafer 41:00 Like, such a cool spot.

Joe Rogan 41:01 Cool people.

Evan Hafer 41:02 And then you saw this flip, and it was right around 2010 is when things really flipped over. And that, to your point, they had... Your car was your domicile, so you couldn't get a parking ticket. So you could basically live in front of somebody's house in a parking spot, and they couldn't write a parking ticket.

Joe Rogan 41:19 That started in 2010?

Evan Hafer 41:20 Give it, give or take, couple years.

Joe Rogan 41:22 [exhales]

Evan Hafer 41:22 And so I went back to my, my... I had a house up there for a while, and the, the week, the day I decided that I was gonna sell this place, like, we fly up there. I've got my daughter. She's, like, a year old. My wife and I are walking down the street, and this is, a part of the city that's called Ballard, which is beautiful part of the city, tons of, like, old bars. Awesome place, back late '90s, early 2000. But then there was a camper in front of my condo, and then there was a naked man with a tennis racket, with his- [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 41:55 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 41:55 My daughter's a year old. [chuckles] His dick's flying around, and my-

Joe Rogan 41:59 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 42:00 ... my, my one-year-old's, like, I'm holding her, like, walking away from the other end. He's got a tennis racket, and he's, like, playing the US Open in his head, whatever he's doing. And then on the corner, no less than 50 feet away, there was a half-naked lady, like, taking a shit, and you're like, "Nah, time to leave. I think this is, uh... I think we're, we're all good here." Um-

Joe Rogan 42:19 We had an issue like that in California for a while-

Evan Hafer 42:21 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 42:21 ... where, um, when the economy started to go south, now this is pre-pandemic as well, we started having these campers camp out right in front of our studio, and they would, uh... The studio where we had in LA, even in that place-

Evan Hafer 42:34 Mm

Joe Rogan 42:35 ... it was the warehouse. We had a big lawn in front of the warehouse, and these guys would spread out on the lawn. So they would park their camper there, and then they would, like, cook out-

Evan Hafer 42:44 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 42:44 ... and they would lay out, and it was so, like, you're in this build- you're asking people to walk past these people to go do your podcast, in this big-ass warehouse that I had leased. And I was like: Why are you doing this? Like, you can't be doing this.

Evan Hafer 42:57 No.

Joe Rogan 42:57 You can't just use my lawn as your front yard. Like, this is crazy. I mean, spread out, too. They had shit laying out there and all kinds of-

Evan Hafer 43:05 There's nothing you can do.

Joe Rogan 43:06 Well, yeah, there was.

Evan Hafer 43:07 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 43:07 Yeah, we contacted the police, and the police, eventually, they realized this is not a good thing, and they moved them all.

Evan Hafer 43:13 Wow!

Joe Rogan 43:13 But they moved them to different parts of town, and so then you would drive to, like, the more industrial areas of town that didn't... Like, our place was, like, semi-industrial. There was a bunch of warehouses, but there was also a bunch of, like, foot traffic, businesses, restaurants, and stuff like that, and so they moved them out of there. But if you go into the deeper industrial places where they have factories and stuff, they were, they were there. Like, whole blocks of them, where you just have campers laying out and just-... open meth smoking. These people were just full-on meth heads that had just started a community of fellow meth enthusiasts-

Evan Hafer 43:45 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 43:45 -with campers. And a lot of their campers didn't even run. They could just get it-

Evan Hafer 43:48 Yeah

Joe Rogan 43:48 ... to the spot, wherever it was, and then they would steal power. You know, every now and then a dude would die, 'cause he, well, like, didn't know how to do the wires right and he'd get cooked. [laughs]

Evan Hafer 43:57 Yeah, that's right. [laughs] It's, it's the same where, where we were at in Salt Lake. I'd have full-time security out in front of the, like, literally in front of the building every night.

Joe Rogan 44:05 Our, our concern was when we left. 'Cause, like, if we left at night and someone broke in, it would take fucking forever for cops to show up and do something about it.

Evan Hafer 44:14 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:15 And so I was like, "You can't just- You just can't have these guys knowing that, like, famous people and, uh, you know, high-profile people are gonna be at that spot, and you've got, like, open meth smoking right in front of the place." Like, this is too crazy.

Evan Hafer 44:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:29 They're too, too unpredictable. You know, I... Look, I don't care if you live in your truck. It's probably cool. If you're a guy who's, like, you've checked out of society, essentially, and you're just, like, playing pickleball all day, and you live in a camper, who cares? You could go and do that. But once you start engaging in meth smoking, and then it- it's always theft.

Evan Hafer 44:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 44:50 Theft comes with meth smoking, and there's a lot of break-ins in the area, and it was... It got to the point where the cops had to do something. So credit to them that they did.

Evan Hafer 44:58 It's almost the difference between #vanlife and #methlife.

Joe Rogan 45:02 Yeah! [laughs]

Evan Hafer 45:03 Right?

Joe Rogan 45:03 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 45:03 There's a big difference. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 45:04 Right, van life is like, you want to be a guy who's not saddled down to one particular spot. You have a place that's in this van that has a bed. You have a little tiny kitchen area. You have a little portable fridge. It's all you need.

Evan Hafer 45:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:19 I don't need a fucking house.

Evan Hafer 45:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:21 Just travel around. It's probably fun.

Evan Hafer 45:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:23 The freedom of it, you know? Like Alex Honnold, that crazy dude that just-

Evan Hafer 45:27 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 45:27 ... climbed that tower in-

Evan Hafer 45:28 Yeah

Joe Rogan 45:28 ... in, uh, Chinese Taipei, he, uh, used to live like that for a long time. He had a big van. He would park it in his friend's driveway sometimes, and he would just travel to trail heads and live out-

Evan Hafer 45:39 That's-

Joe Rogan 45:39 ... live out of his van.

Evan Hafer 45:40 That's, like, the, the minimalist attraction-

Joe Rogan 45:43 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 45:43 ... where you're like, "I, I don't have anything other than what's in my van or on my back," where-

Joe Rogan 45:48 Yeah

Evan Hafer 45:48 ... life is simple.

Joe Rogan 45:49 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 45:49 I don't have to organize anything. I can stay focused. I, I-

Joe Rogan 45:52 Mm

Evan Hafer 45:52 ... I think that's a, it's an interesting thought exercise, especially when you're younger and like, "Okay, cool. I can wrap my head around that."

Joe Rogan 45:59 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 45:59 And it's completely respectable. A lot of these hippies... I shouldn't say that in the context of, like, hippie, dance around with flowers in my hair. A lot of these, like, climber-

Joe Rogan 46:08 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 46:08 ... crunchy guys, they are hard, committed, like, bad mofos.

Joe Rogan 46:13 Oh, yeah.

Evan Hafer 46:14 When they're y- when they're living on dog food... Like, there's this great story about the founder of Patagonia, where he went to the store. He was climbing El Cap, and I'm trying to recall a story from Outside Magazine from, you know, 20 years ago. But in general circumstance, it's what it is, where he went to the store. He's gonna be climbing El Cap for months, and he's just working on a specific route, and he went to the store to buy food. He only had 100 bucks or whatever it was, and dog food was less expensive, and he was like, "Meh-

Joe Rogan 46:45 [laughs]

Evan Hafer 46:46 ... I can live on that." And he bought dog food and lived on dog food.

Joe Rogan 46:49 He just lived on kibble?

Evan Hafer 46:50 And, yeah, so he could climb and stay out there-

Joe Rogan 46:53 Wonder longer

Evan Hafer 46:54 ... longer.

Joe Rogan 46:54 His farts were like...

Evan Hafer 46:56 Bro.

Joe Rogan 46:56 [laughs]

Evan Hafer 46:56 Like, you wouldn't wanna be behind that on this route, right? [laughs] You would not wanna be climbing behind that guy, I'll tell you that.

Joe Rogan 47:02 Because I stopped giving my dog regular dog food a long time ago, but when he was younger, uh, all my dogs, I would just buy the most expensive dry dog food-

Evan Hafer 47:12 Yeah

Joe Rogan 47:12 ... and was like, "Oh, this stuff is good." And then somewhere along the line, it clicked. I was like, "Wait, why- how can it sit there? How can it just-

Evan Hafer 47:20 Yeah

Joe Rogan 47:20 ... sit in that bag for a month? That's crazy. How could it sit on the shelf for years? That's nuts. That can't be good for you." And then I started feeding him frozen food, and then they liked that, but then I switched to Farmer's Dog, which is human-grade food-

Evan Hafer 47:33 Yeah, mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 47:34 ... which is lightly cooked. They fucking love it. That stuff I would eat. Like, you smell it-

Evan Hafer 47:38 Yeah

Joe Rogan 47:38 ... it smells like food. It doesn't smell disgusting.

Evan Hafer 47:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:41 But regular dog food is fucking terrible for a dog.

Evan Hafer 47:45 It's gross.

Joe Rogan 47:45 It's, it's not good for them. So if you have to eat that stuff, that kibble stuff, and you're gonna travel around, your gut must be going like, "What are you doing? [laughs] What kind of chemicals are in here? What kind of preservatives are..." They're just nuking your gut biome.

Evan Hafer 48:01 The le- the level, I, I... But I, I love the level of commitment.

Joe Rogan 48:05 Oh, it's nuts.

Evan Hafer 48:05 I, I love, like, when people drift over into, like, crazy-

Joe Rogan 48:10 Yeah

Evan Hafer 48:10 ... to where their level of commitment and their passion, like, translates directly into nothing else exists in their life-

Joe Rogan 48:16 Right

Evan Hafer 48:16 ... and they're willing to live on dog food to do the thing that they, they love-

Joe Rogan 48:21 Fun

Evan Hafer 48:21 ... that, to me, is like-

Joe Rogan 48:22 [laughs]

Evan Hafer 48:23 ... you're, you're, you're an extremist, and I respect it.

Joe Rogan 48:26 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 48:26 I'm like, "You know what? Hey."

Joe Rogan 48:27 No, I can respect that.

Evan Hafer 48:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:29 Do you ever see the movie Dirtbag?

Evan Hafer 48:30 No.

Joe Rogan 48:31 Um, pull up that movie, Dirtbag. It's a great movie. It's about a guy who d- essentially did that till he was dead. This guy just camped out on the ground in front of his friends' houses, most of the time didn't have a car, uh, just would just, just climb. That's all he did. He was always mooching off people, and he had very detail... What was the dude's name?

Evan Hafer 48:51 Fred, [clears throat] Fred Beckey.

Joe Rogan 48:53 Fred Beckey.

Evan Hafer 48:53 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:53 The dude's a legend.

Evan Hafer 48:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:55 So he had been doing this from, you know, the 19-fucking-50s.

Evan Hafer 48:58 Oh, wow!

Joe Rogan 48:58 Like, he was an old-ass man-

Evan Hafer 49:00 Look at this guy

Joe Rogan 49:00 ... and he still... Look at the gnarled hands. Look at his fucking hands-

Evan Hafer 49:05 Solid

Joe Rogan 49:05 ... from just climbing. Imagine-

Evan Hafer 49:06 Yeah

Joe Rogan 49:06 ... if that guy got ahold of your dick. [laughs]

Evan Hafer 49:08 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 49:08 He'd just rip it right off. But there's-

Evan Hafer 49:11 Do you know who Mark Twight is?

Joe Rogan 49:13 No.

Evan Hafer 49:13 Okay, so Mark Twight, he-

Joe Rogan 49:15 Look at this fucking guy

Evan Hafer 49:16 ... he was, I mean, one of the, like, foremost names in alpinering. Like, he's, he's written several books on it. He wrote a book called Kiss or Kill: Confessions of a Serial Climber back in the day. Very, very similar, like, in the context of, I would imagine, the, the psychological makeup, and he started a, uh, a gym called Gym Jones back in the day, and, like, it was-... where a bunch of people, you had, it was invite only, so you could only get invited, and it was, like, a lot of special operations guys, CIA guys, and professional climbers. Like, everybody that was trying to push the envelope physically would go out and train with Mark. And, uh, I've been friends with him for years, but anything Mark does, he moves from, like, "I'm gonna be the best climber, like, alpineering. I'm gonna be the subject matter expert." He was a professional, uh... He shot IPSC for a while, so he's a professional, you know, pistol shooter for a while, he's a professional climber, and now he's a photographer-writer. But everything he does, he does it to a level of perfection that it probably drives everybody else in his life bananas. Like, he's fascinating. He's a fascinating human. He's incredible.

Joe Rogan 50:28 Those people that go really to the outer level of whatever's possible with whatever the fuck they're doing are always fascinating.

Evan Hafer 50:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:35 'Cause it makes you go, "I don't know if I wanna do that." Like, what is the sacrifice to get really good at rock climbing? You never have kids, you never have a life, you never have a job. Like, this, this dirtbag guy, like, everyone around him both admired him and felt sad for him.

Evan Hafer 50:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:51 'Cause, like, he died a dirtbag. He never had a family, and it's, like, all his ex-girlfriends talking about how an interesting guy he was, he was really fun, but eventually, I had to fucking move on. Like, this dude, all he wanted to do was, like, sleep on the ground and get up and start climbing rocks his whole life.

Evan Hafer 51:10 But there's, i- if you think about everybody around us in their, in their profession or their thing, right? Y- you're at the apex of, uh, your professional, your, your profession, and your level of commitment, I'm not, like, boosting you up, I'm just saying, like, your level of commitment is unparalleled to a huge percentage of other people. So you have a portion of whatever that is, and there are all these other people that have that thing, where their pursuit of passion around that specific profession or product, whatever it might be, they're so committed to it that it takes over. It's all-consuming.

Joe Rogan 51:45 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 51:46 Like, I m- I've seen it, because when, even when you go play pool, like, the [chuckles] when we were in Vegas a couple months ago, they were like, "Oh, we're going to play pool," I'm like, "I'm out. He's gonna be there till, like, 6:00 in the morning."

Joe Rogan 51:57 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 51:57 "I'm not, I'm not gonna do that." And Green Tree was like, "He was. He was there till, like, 6:00 in the morning."

Joe Rogan 52:01 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 52:01 "Played for eight hours straight." I was like, "Yeah, I, I could see the writing on the wall. I'm, I'm out of here." I mean-

Joe Rogan 52:07 The pool is my number one problem. That's my biggest one.

Evan Hafer 52:10 Really?

Joe Rogan 52:10 Yeah, that's the one where if I, if I ever wanted to not do anything else, I would just become a professional pool player. If I just said, "Okay, I am done. I'm done podcasting, I'm done with the UFC, I'm done with everything. I'm just gonna travel around and do tournaments"-

Evan Hafer 52:24 Huh!

Joe Rogan 52:25 ... I could g- I could go crazy. I could go crazy and just do that 100%.

Evan Hafer 52:31 Is it just the, the, the game fascinates you, the, the angles, the, the ability to, like, just continue to evolve within that all the time? You can't ever be the best?

Joe Rogan 52:41 You definitely never achieve full perfection, but to be really good requires this level of laser focus, and concentration, and an understanding of what's going on.

Evan Hafer 52:54 Mm.

Joe Rogan 52:54 I mean, you're taking a stick, and you're hitting a ball into another ball-

Evan Hafer 52:58 Mm

Joe Rogan 52:59 ... with pinpoint accuracy into a pocket that is, on my table, it's four and a quarter inches. So you've got the cue- the ball, the object ball, which is about that big, and then you got that much space on each side. Just a tiny little space on each side, and you gotta slip it through there, oftentimes, like, eight feet away, seven feet away, six feet away with English. So you're putting spin on the cue ball, which imparts a throw on the object ball. So if I put right-hand spin on the cue ball and I hit the object ball, I have to calculate for the fact that it's gonna throw the object ball slightly to the left-

Evan Hafer 53:33 Right

Joe Rogan 53:33 ... because of the right-hand spin, because it clings to the ball a little bit and shoots. So all this is playing in my head. And then I have to have it at a speed where once the cue ball then collides with the object ball, pockets it, then it's gotta go one, two, three rails for perfect position on the next ball. And I have to have an angle. I have to make sure that I have an angle for the following ball.

Evan Hafer 53:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:53 And you don't wanna be trapped on the rails. You wanna be off the rail. It's like all these different things... You can't think about anything else. Your mind has to be clean. It cleans your mind. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Look, there's a lot of pressure when it comes to dating, especially in February, but you're putting too much on yourself and on your partner. There's no such thing as a perfect relationship, whether you're on a first date or have been together for years. It's completely normal to go through rough patches, and what matters is how you deal with them, and therapy can be a huge help during any stage of your dating life. You can figure out what you want in a partner or get perspective for a growing problem in your relationship. The point is, you don't have to come up with a solution by yourself. Now, finding the right therapist can be tricky, but that's where BetterHelp comes in. They have an industry-leading match fulfillment rate, and they do a lot of the work finding the right therapist for you. Really, all you have to do is fill out a questionnaire and sit back and wait. Tackle your relationship goals this month with BetterHelp. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/jre. That's betterH-E-L-P.com/jre.

Evan Hafer 55:08 So if you've gotten, I, I'm sure you have, like, professional-

Joe Rogan 55:12 Coach

Evan Hafer 55:12 ... players, yeah, coaching.

Joe Rogan 55:13 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Evan Hafer 55:13 Guys who've come out, like the-

Joe Rogan 55:14 Yeah

Evan Hafer 55:14 ... best in the world have come out and played with you?

Joe Rogan 55:16 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Evan Hafer 55:17 How do you hold up? Like, what's your-

Joe Rogan 55:19 Well, I can never beat them.

Evan Hafer 55:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:21 Uh, but I beat them some games.

Evan Hafer 55:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:22 I, I can break and run out. So I'll, I'll break and run out, won two games in a row sometimes.

Evan Hafer 55:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:26 And but they'll make... So, like, w- if you have, like, a, a score of, uh, accuracy, uh, it's called, like, a Fargo rating.

Evan Hafer 55:36 Mm.

Joe Rogan 55:36 It's based on 1,000 points is you never miss.... uh, I'm in, like, the 700, on a good day, 750 range. But a real world-class pro is in the 800-plus range. Like, um, Fedor Gorst is probably, like, 850. Joshua Filler is probably, like, a little higher than that. They get into this rate where they so rarely miss. And again, they're playing on four-inch pockets-

Evan Hafer 56:01 Right

Joe Rogan 56:01 ... which is, like, a quarter-inch smaller than the pockets I'm playing on. Although they are playing on new cloth, which helps a lot. Makes things more slippery, they fall in more. More worn-out cloth, like, when it's broken in for a couple of weeks, it gets tougher.

Evan Hafer 56:15 Really?

Joe Rogan 56:16 Yeah, yeah. The, the cloth gets a little less slick, and you gotta hit a ball a little bit more pure, but on the plus side, English takes better.

Evan Hafer 56:24 So when you play with these guys, is it one of those things where they, like, instantly humble you in the context of you start feeling, "I'm really confident in my game," and then you step in-

Joe Rogan 56:36 No, not really.

Evan Hafer 56:37 Not really?

Joe Rogan 56:37 No, um-

Evan Hafer 56:37 There's not that big of a delta between-

Joe Rogan 56:39 There's a gap. There's de- definitely a gap. I mean, they're just way better than me.

Evan Hafer 56:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:43 But it's, it's... a lot of it is just time. They spend eight hours a day playing-

Evan Hafer 56:47 Right

Joe Rogan 56:47 ... every day. If I spent eight hours a day playing every day, I think I could play at a professional level.

Evan Hafer 56:53 Is that-

Joe Rogan 56:54 I wouldn't be able to beat the best guys.

Evan Hafer 56:55 No.

Joe Rogan 56:56 I would never be able to beat, like, the Ko Pingchungs and the, the, the guys that are at the very top, top. 'Cause those guys have been playing eight hours a day for decades. They never stop.

Evan Hafer 57:06 What, what's a, what's a guy like that make annually in tournaments? Like, how much-

Joe Rogan 57:10 Now, more than ever.

Evan Hafer 57:11 Really?

Joe Rogan 57:11 Yeah, because of Matchroom Pool. So Matchroom, the same company that Eddie Hearn owns, that does a lot of boxing promotions-

Evan Hafer 57:18 Mm

Joe Rogan 57:18 ... they're involved in a lot of sports. They've done an amazing job with pool, specifically with nine-ball, and they, they put on these huge tournaments. Saudi Arabia has a big one every year. They have this big world championship where they pay a ton of money. And so, you know, a good player, like, a top-of-the-heat player, is making half a million dollars plus a year.

Evan Hafer 57:38 Okay.

Joe Rogan 57:38 And then also endorsements.

Evan Hafer 57:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:40 So they have endorsements, like, companies like Predator Cues pay them, Cue Tech, and all the- all these different companies pay them-

Evan Hafer 57:46 Mm

Joe Rogan 57:46 ... X amount of dollars per year. They have a sponsor for the chalk they use. They have a sponsor for the tips they play with, all, all these different things.

Evan Hafer 57:55 So-

Joe Rogan 57:55 All that adds up

Evan Hafer 57:56 ... so what's the difference, then, between, what is it, snooker? Is that the English-

Joe Rogan 57:59 That's a totally different game.

Evan Hafer 58:00 It's-

Joe Rogan 58:00 Totally different game.

Evan Hafer 58:00 It's totally different.

Joe Rogan 58:01 It's a big table. It's a 12 by 6, as opposed to a 4 1/2 by 9.

Evan Hafer 58:06 Okay.

Joe Rogan 58:06 So it's a much bigger table, but the balls are smaller as well, and then their cues have these tiny little tips on them. They all play with ash cues, which is like a, a, a very stiff wood, and they play with, like, a solid wood cue. Whereas a lot of, like, pro pool players have switched to carbon fiber now. They play with carbon fiber cues, 'cause it's like, it, it move- it's a little bit more dense, so it moves the ball differently. It has different-

Evan Hafer 58:31 Is it fun? Have you played it?

Joe Rogan 58:32 Snooker?

Evan Hafer 58:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:32 Yeah, I played it when I was in Scotland, a little bit. Uh, but I only played by myself. There was just a table, and I was just-

Evan Hafer 58:38 Right

Joe Rogan 58:38 ... whacking balls around. It's very difficult to pocket balls, but I don't even really understand the rules. I would have to really pay attention.

Evan Hafer 58:44 Mm.

Joe Rogan 58:45 I watch it a little bit sometimes, because I know how hard it is to do what they're doing, 'cause you do have this enormous table. Their cloth is a lot slower, too. It's a... It's not as slick of a cloth.

Evan Hafer 58:55 So is it... It's gotta be older then, right? Is it old-

Joe Rogan 58:58 Oh, it's way... It's old. Snooker's old. Um, so the original billiards game had no pockets. The original billiards game was three-cushion billiards or balkline or there's a b- a bunch of different b- billiards games, where you play on a table, like, say, if it was like this table, there's no pockets in it, and there's just rubber rails all around it.

Evan Hafer 59:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:16 And it's all about knocking one ball into the other ball, going three rails, and then colliding with the third ball.

Evan Hafer 59:24 Huh.

Joe Rogan 59:25 Yeah, it's just about scoring points.

Evan Hafer 59:27 Okay.

Joe Rogan 59:27 And I've, I've watched a bunch of that online, too, 'cause it helps you understand angles, like, as you go into a rail. 'Cause the angles change depending upon how much English you put on it, how hard you hit it, whether you hit it with follow or draw. There's a bunch of different, like, parts of the cue ball that you can contact with-

Evan Hafer 59:44 Mm

Joe Rogan 59:44 ... that radically changes the way the ball moves around on the table. So it's like you're calculating so many different things. There's geometry involved, there's touch and feel, there's like... There's all these factors that come into play when you're playing really well.

Evan Hafer 59:59 So that explains why archery is also somewhat of a fascination then, because you have very similar aspects to archery and pool-

Joe Rogan 1:00:08 Yes

Evan Hafer 1:00:08 ... that directly translate. That's, like, why those things snap together real well for you.

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 Oh, for me-

Evan Hafer 1:00:13 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 ... they're, they're hand in hand. They're, they're, they're basically the same thing.

Evan Hafer 1:00:17 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:17 It's basically the same thing. You're just doing it in a different way. You know, you're... It's the same thing. It's like having everything just flowing together perfectly after, like, years and years and years of meticulous practice, and then it starts to come together. [imitates arrows whooshing] And then you pull that group out, and it's nice and tight, like, 65 yards. Like, yeah, you got it dialed in.

Evan Hafer 1:00:44 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 It's that feeling. And it's the same thing, was the world goes away. There is no room for anything when you're about to pull that trigger.

Evan Hafer 1:00:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 Whether it's in pool, where you're about to make the shot, or whether it's in archery, there's no room for anything. That's what I like about it. I also like that there's no bullshit. There's no shenanigans. There's no personality.

Evan Hafer 1:01:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 There's not- nothing matters.

Evan Hafer 1:01:05 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 Nothing matters. Did the ball go in the hole?

Evan Hafer 1:01:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:08 If it didn't, you lose. If it did, you win. It's really clean.

Evan Hafer 1:01:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 I like that.

Evan Hafer 1:01:13 Yeah, like, that's the thing I love about, like, shooting just in general.

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:01:17 Like, if I'm hitting a target, it doesn't matter... I took my kids to the arcade the other day, and, uh, Skee-Ball.

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 Oh, yeah. I love Skee-Ball. [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:01:26 Like I could, I could, like, spend an hour on that thing, just like-

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 Just trying to get that perfect lob

Evan Hafer 1:01:29 ... just trying to get a perfect lob in there.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:01:32 And it's, it's like I used to tell people, I'm like, "I'm just a projectile enthusiast," where I, I love hitting center mass of whatever target. I'm still a six-year-old kid with my BB gun, right?

Joe Rogan 1:01:43 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:01:44 It's like, at the end of the day, now my tools are, are-... you know, much more advanced, and I've got, you know, the millions of dollars of government-funded [chuckles] training behind me, so I'm a little bit more effective at hitting what I wanna shoot at. But it still has the same, the same exact feeling.

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:01:59 Like, if you're six years old, hitting a pop can with your BB gun or ringing a piece of steel at a mile-

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:02:05 ... with a rifle or hitting a, you know, the, the heart of a foam elk in your backyard, it's the same, dude. It translates, and it, like, pulls you into something that's, like, pure, I guess.

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 It is pure, and it's also a really good mind exercise.

Evan Hafer 1:02:20 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:20 Just like, you know, when you work out, you're cleaning your mind. There's a lot of what working out is, is not just physical, it's mental clarity. You, uh, relax the mind, you calm the mind through hard exercise, and there's something where you're calming your mind through shooting. Because it requires so much of you, everything else just gets- p- get the fuck out of the way. Bills, this, that, you know, "Oh, I gotta call that guy. I don't wanna call him. Fuck, I gotta deal with this thing. Oh, that's falling apart. This deal sucks." It, it all goes away. It has to go away.

Evan Hafer 1:02:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:55 If it doesn't go away, you miss, and then you go, "Fuck, why did I miss?" Um, you missed 'cause you're distracted. Like, let's focus, put the fucking arrow on the nock, you know, put, put it in there, draw it back, center it, calm, relax. At that moment, like, at that moment, there is nothing else in your fucking head. There's nothing in there. Thwack! And it goes in there, thwack, you get this, [exhales] this nice burst of happiness when you watch that fucking arrow just drop right in exactly where you want it to, like, [exhales] and then you go and pull the arrows, and you go right back and start it again. And at the end of that practice, I feel way better. I just always feel better.

Evan Hafer 1:03:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:33 I always feel clearer. My, my head works better. It's just like, it's a focus exercise with ex- which excites all your synapses, and then on top of that, it's a mental clearing thing. Like, Fred Berry used to talk about that, like, something about... I forget the quote, but it's something about, "There's nothing like shooting a bow that clears a man's mind."

Evan Hafer 1:03:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:52 It's totally true. There's something about archery, in particular, that just cleans your mind.

Evan Hafer 1:03:58 Yeah, I, I, I 100% agree. I, I used to have this trad bow, which that's how I started. Have I told you this story? Like, so I'd stuff the old coffee bags, the burlap coffee bags-

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

Evan Hafer 1:04:10 ... I'd stuff them up and fill them up, and then I started shooting a trad bow originally. Well, the roasting cycle takes about eight, eight and a half minutes, so I couldn't really do anything. I'm, like, watching the, you know, coffee roast, which is just tumbling in a big dryer, and so I'd just shoot a trad bow in the back to try to focus something other than the business, uh, you know, family, whatever it is. I could just shoot my trad bow, and then, uh, Dudley was like, "Why do you shoot that thing? It's so stupid." [chuckles] "Like, don't you like to hit what you shoot at?" I'm like, "I'm just doing it for fun, man. Like, you know, I'm, I'm a happy-go-lucky guy. I just want a, like, active form of meditation." But what, what I did realize was it was such a pure... To your point, it would flush out all this negative shit that I was, like, either working through or dealing, dealing with. That's like... So being able to translate that to other people, especially veterans, huge, huge transformation for guys.

Joe Rogan 1:05:09 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:05:09 'Cause they can go out, it's quiet. It's a subculture they can be part of.

Joe Rogan 1:05:14 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:05:14 They can geek out on all the new gear and arrowheads and wade into the infinite, never-ending debate around bullshit, around cutting surface area and fucking, you know, mass and velocity, and, like, you'll never get tired-

Joe Rogan 1:05:28 Right

Evan Hafer 1:05:28 ... because it's, like, full of its own little drama-

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 1:05:30 ... and it's, like, a bunch of nerd shit that you can actually have a lot of fun with.

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 So much nerd shit.

Evan Hafer 1:05:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 That's what people don't understand. You know, and they don't expect nerd shit, like, real complicated, technical nerd shit from archery.

Evan Hafer 1:05:42 No.

Joe Rogan 1:05:42 You don't think of it that way, but it's like many things. Like, once you get into it, you realize, like, "Oh, this thing, there's a learning curve to this motherfucker. There's a lot involved." Like, when every one of my friends is like, "I wanna go bow hunting," I'm like, [exhales] "Do you really? Are you sure? Like, don't tell me you... Like, i-i-it's not that you gotta dive in off of a cliff."

Evan Hafer 1:06:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:05 "This is not like, 'I'm gonna go dip my waters into bow hunting. I wanna go shoot an elk.' Like, Jesus Christ, do you know how hard that is to do? You have fucking... There's so many moving parts. There's so many things. You have to be able to be proficient under extreme stress. There's so much going on there, man. Don't tell me you wanna do that-

Evan Hafer 1:06:22 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 ... unless you, you gotta s- you gotta show me-

Evan Hafer 1:06:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:06:25 ... before I get involved. Uh, take me bow hunting." [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:06:28 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 "That's not happening. You are not gonna be stomping on twigs near me, and you're not gonna be going... You're not gonna be not checking the wind. All these things are not going to happen."

Evan Hafer 1:06:38 Well, they, they like the idea, right?

Joe Rogan 1:06:39 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:06:40 Like, they like... And there's plenty of people, they're like, they're, they're, they're window shoppers-

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 Right

Evan Hafer 1:06:45 ... in this activity, right? They're like, they're walking by, and they're like, "That looks cool."

Joe Rogan 1:06:49 Right.

Evan Hafer 1:06:49 But they don't like the realities of what it actually takes because it's so fucking hard, and it, like, ruins you-

Joe Rogan 1:06:56 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:06:56 ... a lot of times. Like, I mean, in the last few years, we've hunted enough together, like, dude, I've been psychologically ruined by, like- [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:07:04 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:07:05 ... shooting something or making a bad shot or-

Joe Rogan 1:07:07 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:07:08 ... like, just devastating.

Joe Rogan 1:07:09 Missing.

Evan Hafer 1:07:09 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:07:10 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 It's like you can't figure out why you missed.

Evan Hafer 1:07:12 No, and then you're, you're running through it a thousand, a thousand times. Like, "What did I do? Okay, how do I do better?" And then you're like, "Okay."

Joe Rogan 1:07:20 But you're the kind of guy that does that, that does the process in your head and then improves and keeps getting better. For some people, that's, that will ruin their life.

Evan Hafer 1:07:29 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:29 Like, the one bad thing that happens will ruin their fucking life. Because they spent all these months preparing, they paid for a tag, they hired an outfitter, and then floink, dunk, dunk the shot-

Evan Hafer 1:07:41 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:07:41 ... and fucking ruin their whole week, and then they go back home, "How'd your hunt go?" "Oh, I missed." You know, like, "Or I wounded it."

Evan Hafer 1:07:48 Well, and it's, and it's a, it's a, it's a lesson in life.

Joe Rogan 1:07:51 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:07:51 Like, you can work-... harder than you've ever worked-

Joe Rogan 1:07:55 And still fail.

Evan Hafer 1:07:56 And still fail.

Joe Rogan 1:07:57 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:07:57 You can work for a decade of your life, you can shoot and shoot, and train and train, and you can put in all the work and still fuck it up.

Joe Rogan 1:08:05 And there's guys who, in the same situation as you, would succeed.

Evan Hafer 1:08:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:11 So you gotta figure out what's- what are they doing different, why are they better, keep, and then keep getting better. Like, there's hunts that I've been successful on recently, you know, within the last few years, that I know that if I had that same hunt eight, nine years ago, I probably would've not been able to make that shot.

Evan Hafer 1:08:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 I'm not- I wasn't as good then, so I've gotten better. It's like, I think everybody needs something that you can't master, that is hard to do, that, that cleans your mind. I think people need stuff to clean their mind, and I think that's why so many people are running around all fucked up, because you're looking at social media all day, so that gives you anxiety. Your, your life is not satisfying, so that gives you anxiety. You don't care- take care of your body, so that gives you anxiety. You have all these things comp- and you're stuck in traffic, that gives you anxiety. Everybody's just mentally all fucked up, and so you go to a doctor, and the doctor says, "Well, you know, well, you know, obviously you're dealing with depression, and, uh, I can prescribe you this or that or the other," and then you're on Lexapro or whatever the fuck you're on. And that's the road they go down, and this is a bad road. It's not a road where you're gonna improve your life, and there's other ways to do it. And I think there'd be a lot more happy people in this world if you found a thing. It doesn't have to be archery, it doesn't have to be pool-

Evan Hafer 1:09:30 No

Joe Rogan 1:09:30 ... it doesn't have to be jujitsu, it doesn't have to be pistol shooting. It just has to be something that's hard to do, that you are on this quest to c- make these incremental improvements. And through that focus of incremental improvements, you imp- improve your human potential, you, you improve your per- your ability as a person to do difficult, and to handle situations. So I always tell people, "If you do jujitsu, you'll be much happier, because the, the stresses of life are nothing compared to a dude who's trying to literally break your arm."

Evan Hafer 1:10:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:07 He's on top of you, and you're defending, and then you get out of it, and then you get him, or he gets you, and then you have to tap, and you go over again. That is so hard to do that, like, regular life becomes like a breeze. It becomes a breeze. It makes everything... Jujitsu people are some of the most relaxed people I've ever been around in my life.

Evan Hafer 1:10:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:25 They're all friendly to everybody. They're never talking shit or causing drama, problems. They get it all out.

Evan Hafer 1:10:32 You know, they- I think, I think there's something a- about getting the shit kicked out of yourself, too, right? So-

Joe Rogan 1:10:37 Oh, yeah

Evan Hafer 1:10:38 ... like, there's something about facing someone, uh, which I don't do jujitsu, just, you know, as a caveat to that, but being able to, like, face another person in any scenario and then compete against them.

Joe Rogan 1:10:50 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:10:50 So where everything counts, and then literally just getting the shit beat out of yourself and going, "Okay, well, I'm gonna step back up, and I'm gonna do it again," right?

Joe Rogan 1:11:00 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:11:01 That-

Joe Rogan 1:11:01 And get better

Evan Hafer 1:11:02 ... that level of teaching yourself mental endurance, like, that is the thing that I constantly think about my kids. Like, I'm like-

Joe Rogan 1:11:10 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 1:11:10 ... how do I be compassionate, caring, loving, you know, the dad that wants to give them everything? And then how do you, like, translate that into also creating obstacles that will drive mental courage, right? Just pure courage.

Joe Rogan 1:11:24 I think you do it by example.

Evan Hafer 1:11:26 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:11:26 I think that's the best way. Yeah. Uh, my opinion is, like, if you look at Cam Haynes' sons-

Evan Hafer 1:11:33 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:11:33 ... I mean, he was rough raising his kids. He talks about that, but those kids are exceptional. They're fucking exceptional.

Evan Hafer 1:11:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:40 You know, his one son's a ranger, the other son broke the world chin-up record, and, you know, he runs marathons with jeans on [chuckles] and he-

Evan Hafer 1:11:48 Lunatics

Joe Rogan 1:11:48 ... he's fucking got two savage kids.

Evan Hafer 1:11:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:50 And why, why? Well, look, look at the environment they grew up in.

Evan Hafer 1:11:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:11:54 They grew up in a, with a dad who's supremely disciplined, and just by being in his presence, you realize, like, "Oh, uh, I can achieve a lot more than other people can if I'm just willing to put in that work." And for a lot of people, that's, that feeling, that feeling of, like, the s- the anxiety of the struggle and of grinding it out, and, like, that scares them, and they don't wanna do it, and so they come up with excuses, or they retreat into other things, and, you know, they distract themselves. And if you're a parent that do- does that, you create a weird environment for your child, 'cause your child is sort of imitating you as a leader, and you're a fuck-up, and you're always making excuses, and you get fired a lot, or you sleep in a lot, or you, you do things that, like, are not admirable. And then that child, you know, "Ah, fuck life, man!" [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 1:12:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:48 You know? Whereas, you know, his kids are probably like, "Jesus Christ, Dad's a fucking animal. Like, uh, I wanna be an animal, too." And then you see how people respect his father, and they go, "Oh, okay, I want e- I want people to respect me like that, too." You know, you hear what people talk about him when he's not around, like, "Oh, I want people to respect me."

Evan Hafer 1:13:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:13:05 Well, there's only one way to do that: you have to be worthy of respect. There's only one way to get there. It's a fucking long road. Good luck, start going. And, uh, you're not gonna get any satisfaction for a long-ass fucking time, other than the fact that you're on the path, that you're on... You're involved in the process, and you're on the journey.

Evan Hafer 1:13:24 Yeah, the grind, right?

Joe Rogan 1:13:25 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:13:25 And it's like, it's overused, but the level of endurance, like, and courage, when it's like, that trade alone, just trying to understand courage, like, w- who has it, who doesn't have it, and then the level of commitment to a mission or something bigger than yourself, it's, it's, it's the thing that I think about, uh, I'd say a huge percentage of, of the last several years. Especially, you know, as I get a little bit older, right, a little bit further away from the GWOT in-... I was with, um, uh, I'm doing a documentary on, um, Earl Plumlee. Do you know who that is?

Joe Rogan 1:14:06 No.

Evan Hafer 1:14:07 Um, so he's a Medal of Honor recipient, former Green Beret. We were at the UFC fight with, um, Elliot Miller and Earl Plumlee. Early- Earl Plumlee is a, an incredibly humble guy, like, uh, just an amazing human. Like, you can sit here and talk to him, you'd never in a million years know that this guy had earned the Medal of Honor. Never. Like, because, one, he's never gonna tell you. [chuckles] Two, he's gonna ask you 100 questions about you and be way more fascinated with that. And two-- and three, you know, we were having this conversation, he's like: "Man, it belongs to the guys. Like, I didn't do anything. Like, it belongs to the guys. Like, the guys, any of the guys, if they wouldn't have been shot, would've done the same exact thing that I did." And I was like, "Man, that is an incredible statement from, you know, a guy that's sitting here." And so this documentary follows his path from joining the Marine Corps, which was literally where the, the judge... You know, those, those old stories of the guy that was, like, forced by the judge to join the-

Joe Rogan 1:15:10 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:15:10 ... the military or jail?

Joe Rogan 1:15:12 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:15:12 He literally has that. And it starts, he goes into, you know, the Marines, and then he's a Force Recon Marine, and, and he'd, he had gone through all the selections, and then he got out of the Marine Corps, joined the Army. And we follow his story through the eyes of his peers and his leaders, because w- uh, we wanted to see from his perspective, what do other people say about him through his entire journey? Not the story from his perspective. One, he'll never tell it the way that it's probably needs to be told. Two, what were the choices that he made throughout his professional life that made the man that was capable of such an incredible act of courage, that it warranted the highest medal, you know, uh, literally earned in the United States military? And that single word, courage, how do you build courageous people-

Joe Rogan 1:16:07 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:16:07 ... is a fascinating [chuckles] -

Joe Rogan 1:16:09 It is.

Evan Hafer 1:16:10 It's quite literally, it's such a fascinating subject, and most of it is, i- it's the, the man in the arena, right? It's, it's a poem from, from Teddy Roosevelt. It's like, it's not the critic who counts, it's like the keeping up, stepping back in, this commitment to something greater than yourself, and then making these thousands of choices in your life. Every day, as you wake up, step forward, step back into the fray, and, like, make the active decision to be better. And it's like... It's, it's such a fucking fundamental thing of being able to any, any part of your life, if you don't get up in the morning and, like, commit yourself to something, I'm not, you know, motivational speaker, but it's how are you ever gonna get better if you're not committing to something, like being a better dad or a better husband or a better, you know, better at your profession? And then committing to this evolutionary process takes a, a, not only a huge amount of commitment, but mental and physical endurance. It does. And I'm, I'm never gonna get tired of trying to figure this out because obviously, it's, it's like my peer set... I was having this conversation with, um, [lips smack] Jack Carr and I ran into the airport. Uh, we ran into each other at the airport on the way down here, and we were talking about-

Joe Rogan 1:17:32 Fucking love that guy.

Evan Hafer 1:17:32 Fucking such a good dude. And it's, it's not just in the military, right? It's, it's not. It's just-

Joe Rogan 1:17:40 Yeah, in all of life.

Evan Hafer 1:17:41 Yeah, all of life.

Joe Rogan 1:17:42 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:17:42 It's a common thing.

Joe Rogan 1:17:42 You find exceptional people in all of life, and you can- they're fuel.

Evan Hafer 1:17:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:46 Those people are fuel. And they, and they enhance the lives of the people around them, and then if you become one of those guys, you enhance the lives of the people around you, and then you feed off of them, and they feed off of you, and everybody feeds off of each other. And it's, it's so good for you to know that people like that are out there.

Evan Hafer 1:18:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:06 That there's a guy like that, capable of incredible courage, and that how did he get there? What did he do? What did... Yeah, how did he become the man he is right now? Because, goddamn, that's an admirable man. So how do you- how do I-

Evan Hafer 1:18:17 How do you get there?

Joe Rogan 1:18:18 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:18:19 It's... And there's all these stories. I, like, we, Jack and I were talking about, um, 'cause, you know, the Navy SEALs, obviously, they've got a lot of, of positive, uh, PR over the last several years, but this, the Special Operations community has got so much just, I don't know, airtime, right? But there are all these other people in the military throughout, you know, generations of war fighters that have gone out and done these incredibly hard jobs. And I, I found this story of the Parche, which is the USS Parche, which is the most decorated submarine and ship in Navy history. They have nine Presidential citations. It's the most decorated group of men in the US Navy, like, in modern history, and everything they've done is still classified.

Joe Rogan 1:19:06 Whoa!

Evan Hafer 1:19:07 It's a Cold War-era nuclear submarine that was modified and pul- ultimately tasked out by the CIA to go out and do collection. And they were the guys that hundreds of feet down, they would land on the bottom of, of the ocean, and the, uh, Soviets had these military communication lines that were basically hard lines that would go under a bay, so they could communicate back and forth, and they've- they felt like they were secure. And one of their jobs, which is... I've, I've never been able to see anything, uh, you know, declassified, but the stories that are out there, these guys would land on the bottom of the ocean, send out divers at hundreds of feet, and these guys would hook listening devices on those lines, hundreds of feet down, like, in cold, dark water. Can you imagine, dude? Like, you're out-... in 400 feet or 300 feet of water, pitch black, you can't see anything, and your job is to go and put a listening device on a Soviet communication line in 1986 [chuckles] or whatever it was?

Joe Rogan 1:20:13 Whoa!

Evan Hafer 1:20:13 And you're in enemy territory, so if you get discovered, you're dead. And none of these guys, that's the incredible thing, none of these guys have ever said anything about it.

Joe Rogan 1:20:26 Wow!

Evan Hafer 1:20:27 Decades, and not only decades of missions, months away from home, none of these guys have said a fucking thing. They've not been on a podcast, they've not written any books, and the only thing they say is, "Yeah, we did a lot of incredible shit. Still can't talk about it." [laughing] Unbelievable, man.

Joe Rogan 1:20:45 Yeah, they're-

Evan Hafer 1:20:47 Like, I've been able to see. I can go out and do shit, and, like, you still have the ability to see. I can't imagine being in, like, 300 feet of water and-

Joe Rogan 1:20:55 Pitch black

Evan Hafer 1:20:56 ... pitch black. If you, if you lose a glove, right-

Joe Rogan 1:21:00 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:21:00 ... or something goes wrong, how are you gonna get back to the boat, right? And you're gonna have to get back to the boat, and then get back into American territory without being discovered. And more, more importantly, you're gonna do this how many times over the course of your career?

Joe Rogan 1:21:15 And are th- uh, does the listening device require them to gather the information while they're at the bottom of the ocean, or does it transmit?

Evan Hafer 1:21:22 I think it transmits.

Joe Rogan 1:21:24 Oh.

Evan Hafer 1:21:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:24 That's much-

Evan Hafer 1:21:25 Now-

Joe Rogan 1:21:25 ... more convenient. [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 1:21:26 It's, it's not-

Joe Rogan 1:21:27 I have to remember- [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:21:27 It's not been declassified, so who knows?

Joe Rogan 1:21:29 Right, who knows?

Evan Hafer 1:21:30 And they don't talk about it.

Joe Rogan 1:21:31 Wow!

Evan Hafer 1:21:32 They don't talk about it.

Joe Rogan 1:21:33 That's crazy.

Evan Hafer 1:21:34 I, I was talking to, uh... Jack and I were talking about it, and, um, I was like, "Have you ever heard about this?" And, you know, he's a retired Navy guy. He's like, "No, I've never heard about it." I'm like, "That's my point." It's an incredible story, man. Like, these guys are still buttoned up-

Joe Rogan 1:21:47 Wow

Evan Hafer 1:21:47 ... not saying a fucking word.

Joe Rogan 1:21:50 They picked the right guys.

Evan Hafer 1:21:51 They picked the right guys.

Joe Rogan 1:21:52 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:21:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:53 There's guys like that out there.

Evan Hafer 1:21:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:54 Yeah, and they don't have to be famous either.

Evan Hafer 1:21:57 No.

Joe Rogan 1:21:57 There's a lot of people out there, they just, they're, you know-

Evan Hafer 1:22:01 They're just doing the mission.

Joe Rogan 1:22:02 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:22:03 They'd come home, not tell their families.

Joe Rogan 1:22:06 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:22:06 Their wives would be pissed off. "What are you doing out, out on the boat with all your friends for months, just hanging out, hot rocking, you know?"

Joe Rogan 1:22:13 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:22:14 Like, "I can't say anything."

Joe Rogan 1:22:16 You have to have the right wife.

Evan Hafer 1:22:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:22:19 If you don't have a woman that can understand that, that becomes a real problem. [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 1:22:23 Yeah, I'm sure a lot of them ended up in divorce.

Joe Rogan 1:22:25 Oh, yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:22:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:26 Well, you know, that was part of the Bob Lazar story. The Bob Lazar was the guy that worked-

Evan Hafer 1:22:30 Yeah, mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:22:30 ... at Area 51.

Evan Hafer 1:22:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:31 He couldn't tell his wife what he was doing, and they would call him at, like, 10:00 pm, uh, "There's a flight for you that leaves at 11:15. Be at the airport," you know, and he had to leave. And he would tell his wife, "I gotta go to work." And she's like, "It's 11 o'clock at night." He's like, "I have to go to work." "What are you doing?" He's like, "I can't talk about it." 'Cause all his phones were bugged, everything was bugged.

Evan Hafer 1:22:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:22:52 So his wife is like, "This motherfucker's cheating on me." She, she, she starts fucking her flight instructor. [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:22:57 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:22:57 And that's one of the reasons why they removed him from his duties, because they're like, "This guy's gonna be unstable. We have to see how he handles this, because he's in- involved in this top-secret back engineering of a flying saucer program-

Evan Hafer 1:23:12 Right, right

Joe Rogan 1:23:12 ... allegedly. And we have to, uh, you know, keep an eye on this motherfucker because he, he can't be mentally unstable and have this kind of responsibility." 'Cause he couldn't tell her.

Evan Hafer 1:23:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:23 Couldn't tell her anything.

Evan Hafer 1:23:25 He can't tell anybody.

Joe Rogan 1:23:26 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:23:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:23:27 And then eventually, he took her to the, the, the sites where he could... He, he explained to everybody when he thought that his life was in danger and that he was getting fired. When things started getting sideways, like, "People need to know about this," he took her out there and he showed her, but he was, he didn't know that she was fucking some other guy by that, by that time.

Evan Hafer 1:23:42 That's so unfortunate.

Joe Rogan 1:23:43 Unfortunate.

Evan Hafer 1:23:44 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:23:44 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:23:45 "Look at... This is what I'm doing." I wonder if that actually would-

Joe Rogan 1:23:47 I wonder if she's like, "Fuck-

Evan Hafer 1:23:48 "Fuck"

Joe Rogan 1:23:48 ... I shouldn't have fucked that guy." [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:23:51 "I shouldn't have fucked that guy. Man, I feel bad now. I shouldn't have fucked that guy."

Joe Rogan 1:23:54 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:23:54 I, I used to have to do that, 'cause for years, you know, years of my life, I didn't tell anybody, couldn't tell anybody who I worked for or what I did, and I didn't have a wife, so I didn't have a wife or kids. I'd just not really say anything, and I'd just dip out. I kinda dipped out from my family. My dad was, like, very concerned, 'cause he's like, "I never hear from that kid. I don't know what he's doing." I'm like, "Eh, just working. Just-

Joe Rogan 1:24:20 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:24:20 ... just busy, man." But it weighs on you after a while. You're like, "This kinda sucks." Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:24:25 Yeah, not being able to tell people about something you're doing is, it's har- like, you can never show someone part of who you are.

Evan Hafer 1:24:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:24:33 There's always gonna be a door that's closed. It's kinda nuts.

Evan Hafer 1:24:37 Yeah, it's difficult. It was like my wife, when we first got together, she's the first girl that... Or first woman, I shouldn't say girl. She's the first woman I told, 'cause I was like, "Fuck this place. I'm out of it anyway, so if, if I get rolled up, I get rolled up. Who cares? I'm out anyway."

Joe Rogan 1:24:53 Did she... Was she initially like, "Whoa!" Like, how did she handle it?

Evan Hafer 1:24:58 Well, [exhales] so we were-

Joe Rogan 1:25:00 Did you give her, like, details?

Evan Hafer 1:25:02 No, no, no, I... 'Cause w- she had met some of my friends, right? And, you know, the guys from the community are fairly obvious, 'cause they look like you. And they're jacked, tattooed, you know, a lot of them are, you know, big beards. It looks like, um, look like the Hells Angels.

Joe Rogan 1:25:20 Right.

Evan Hafer 1:25:20 Right, so, like, I don't work for the State Department. That's fairly obvious. Like, State Departments, they're gonna wear suits and, you know, they're... come out of Harvard, and they use really long words all the time.

Joe Rogan 1:25:30 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 1:25:30 They're not, [chuckles] they're not like... They don't look like they're getting ready to commit a felony.

Joe Rogan 1:25:35 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 1:25:35 Like, and, and so she would be around, you know, at our kitchen table or whatever, and you'd have all these guys that look like, you know, they're NFL Hells Angels. And I look like this, which, you know, is intimidating nonetheless, but- [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:25:51 [chuckles]

Evan Hafer 1:25:51 ... uh, I could get away with it. I could sell that, but they couldn't. She's like, "Well, so you work for the State Department, but what is it that you actually do?" Right, and I'm like, "You're not a janitor, obviously." I'm like, "Uh, you know, we, we, we train assistant advisors or something," and then after a while, um-... you know, getting to know her, you know, six months or however long we'd known each other, we were driving down the road, and I was like: "I actually work for the CIA." And she's like: "I know." [laughing] "What are you, a fucking idiot?" I'm like: "Yeah, that's fair. Yeah." Like [laughing] and, uh, and it's, and it's funny because even now, today, right? It's like a lot of my friends will come by that I haven't seen for years, and, uh, and she always has the same kind of like eye roll. It's like, "Okay, you guys are gonna be up till like 2:00 in the morning, like, drinking at the kitchen table, talking shit about everybody that you used to work with." [laughing] Yeah, that's right. It's like, and it's so dramatic, right? It's like, it's such a sewing circle at times-

Joe Rogan 1:26:50 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:26:50 ... with people, and it's all the same people are the same, regardless of your profession. It's like-

Joe Rogan 1:26:57 Uh-huh

Evan Hafer 1:26:58 ... they're always talking shit, and-

Joe Rogan 1:27:00 Well-

Evan Hafer 1:27:00 "That guy's a good dude, that guy's not."

Joe Rogan 1:27:02 It's so fascinating to me, like, uh, James O'Keefe stuff.

Evan Hafer 1:27:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:27:06 Like, how much they bust people that talk about things they should never talk about with people that are just on a date with.

Evan Hafer 1:27:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:27:14 Like, not even like your wife of 10 years. Not, no, no, no. No-

Evan Hafer 1:27:18 No

Joe Rogan 1:27:18 ... some lady or some guy. It's a lot of it, it's chatty gay guys.

Evan Hafer 1:27:23 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:27:23 A lot of it is gay guys like, "I'll tell you how we do it." [chuckles] And they're on a date with some guy, and they're trying to impress him, and they start telling about what secret, covert things they're doing that's totally illegal, and they do it all the time.

Evan Hafer 1:27:35 Well, it's got- it happens all the time in DC. Y- y- d- i- and it doesn't really matter what, what party or wherever you go, you always have the guy... And it's so funny because I would go to, you know, whatever party X, and depending on the venue, it might be like State Department, FBI, or whomever, and you can always tell who works for whom. And it's always like you're- they're always trying to out-jockey each other for who works for the better government service. And I used to always tell people I was a, I was a janitor, so they would leave me alone. And, uh, "I'm a janitor at Northrop Grumman." They're like: "Why are you here?" Like, kind of a thing. I'm like, "Ah, that's what I do. It's, you know, it's my passion. I love them shit, shit stripes and toilets, man. I gotta wipe them out." [laughing] And but then the, the, all the other guys were, like, jockeying for, like, FBI or State Department or wherever they're going, and then it's always the guy who's like: "I can't tell you who I work for." And you're like, "Oh."

Joe Rogan 1:28:31 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:28:32 Then you just sit back and listen. You're like, "Let me hear where this guy's going. This is gonna be a fun one." You know, you're like, "Oh, shit."

Joe Rogan 1:28:37 Get a couple of drinks in him.

Evan Hafer 1:28:39 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:39 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:28:39 And it's just full of shit.

Joe Rogan 1:28:41 Oh, so many people.

Evan Hafer 1:28:41 It's like, oh, it's so full of shit.

Joe Rogan 1:28:43 Well, that's the thing about important people that have achieved a high level of success. Everybody wants to pretend they're that.

Evan Hafer 1:28:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:50 There's a lot of people that wanna pretend they're that person because it's so hard to become that person, but it's... Y- you can convince a lot of people that don't know any better that you are. That was a big thing with martial arts, big thing with martial arts. It was a b- in, especially in the '80s. Well, so in the '80s, when I first started, no one knew anything. It wasn't like today. Today, if you get in a street fight, if you're a high school kid, and you get in a street fight with another high school kid, there's a high likelihood that that kid knows how to leg kick.

Evan Hafer 1:29:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:29:22 He might know a, a, a blast double. He might know an arm triangle. You might get fucked up. Like, they might know how to fight. Back then, no one knew how to fight. It was very rare. There was, like, one kid who knew how to box. It was always the wrestling team, which were the most-

Evan Hafer 1:29:34 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:29:34 ... dangerous people.

Evan Hafer 1:29:35 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:29:35 Those guys were the worst. Those guys were the- they were the hardest motherfuckers in the school, always. And I didn't even realize that until I started wrestling. I was like: "I'm amongst these fucking elite killers, and they're just walking around with everybody like they're normal." And you realize the level of commitment and dedication involved in being a, an elite high school wrestler, just a high school wrestler, it's fucking off the charts. These kids were going to camps, uh, all through the summer. They would get sent off to wrestling camp. They were training year-round, and I just hopped in on my sophomore year. I, I did one season of wrestling, and I was like: "This is crazy!" Like, the level... I, I had no idea. I was hanging around with these people.

Evan Hafer 1:30:15 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:30:15 I thought they were normal people. They were like kids that were like little soldiers.

Evan Hafer 1:30:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:30:19 Like, all of them, thick-necked, little fucking soldiers. And you realize, like, wow. It, like, opened my eyes, like, Jesus, there's these people around. And they were never even considered martial artists until the UFC. They... Nobody really understood, unless they actually did wrestling, how helpless the average person is with an elite wrestler. You have no chance. Like, z-

Evan Hafer 1:30:40 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:30:40 ... it's not like, oh, maybe you'll be able to hit him before he takes you down. Eh, eh, nope, no chance.

Evan Hafer 1:30:46 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 1:30:46 He's gonna chew on you.

Evan Hafer 1:30:47 Yeah. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:30:47 He's gonna pop in- you have no chance.

Evan Hafer 1:30:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30:49 You have zero chance. But there was always a bunch of guys who were pretending they were martial arts experts. It was, oh, it was a really common thing. And then you would talk to them like: "Where do you train? What do you, what do you do?" And i- i- it was always some guy who, like, learned some myst- There was one guy. This guy actually wound up getting arrested, uh, for murder, and he's in jail right now. Yeah, he had, uh, lied to everybody and told them that he was a Brazilian jujitsu black belt, [tsks] and, uh, he was even teaching people, and he knew almost nothing. And it, this is like in the early, early 2000s, I guess, like, the late '90s, early 2000s, and it was just starting to catch on. Like, people were just starting to understand the depth of martial arts because of the UFC, but it hadn't really gone mainstream until about 2005.

Evan Hafer 1:31:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:31:36 And this guy, uh, w- was telling everybody he was a Brazilian jujitsu black belt, and then Eddie Bravo trained with him. And Eddie came back to me, and he's like: "Man, something's wrong." You know, like, "This guy is terrible. He didn't know shit." And, and he's like... And I was like: "Really?" He goes: "Yeah, I think he's a fake. I think he's a fraud." And he wound up con- c- confronting this guy, and then the guy wound up, uh, he was banging some guy's wife and wound up luring the guy back to his karate school and killing him.

Evan Hafer 1:32:05 [chuckles] What?

Joe Rogan 1:32:06 Yeah, yeah. And he went to jail, and, uh, he's in jail right now, but he had a fake name.... his name was Raphael Torri. That was his fake name, but his real name was, like, Ralph something or other, and, uh, he's in jail right now for murder.

Evan Hafer 1:32:19 That's a- but that's a super funny character, right?

Joe Rogan 1:32:21 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:32:21 Not that guy, but it's a-

Joe Rogan 1:32:23 But a fake black belt

Evan Hafer 1:32:23 ... but a fake martial artist.

Joe Rogan 1:32:25 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:32:26 Who was that... There, there was a, there was a movie years ago, uh, where it's like one foot wai- the way of one foot or something.

Joe Rogan 1:32:32 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:32:33 Did you ever watch that?

Joe Rogan 1:32:33 Yeah, yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:32:33 Yeah, with Danny McBride.

Joe Rogan 1:32:34 Yeah, it's awesome. [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:32:35 And it was fucking hilarious, man. And it's like, that guy, that, that, like, character, that strip mall-

Joe Rogan 1:32:42 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 1:32:42 ... you know, martial artist-

Joe Rogan 1:32:43 McDojo

Evan Hafer 1:32:43 ... is just a piece of shit. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:32:45 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:32:45 It's hilarious.

Joe Rogan 1:32:45 There's a guy on Instagram that documents all these guys, is McDojo Life on Instagram. It's a fucking great page, because it's all people doing bullshit, fake martial arts, like death touch.

Evan Hafer 1:32:57 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:32:57 Like, people that can, like, touch your forehead, and you, like, go limp and fall to the ground.

Evan Hafer 1:33:00 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:33:01 And you get all their... Their students become, like, brainwashed, and they go along with this whole facade. It's really weird. They, they're in on the charade. It's very strange.

Evan Hafer 1:33:11 Super weird.

Joe Rogan 1:33:11 Like-

Evan Hafer 1:33:12 It's, it's very cultish.

Joe Rogan 1:33:13 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:33:13 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:33:14 Martial arts are very cultish, especially traditional martial arts. Like, your instructor is always "Sir," you're always bowing to them. There's always a lot of weirdness inside... Yeah, yeah, yeah. In, in, like, traditional taekwondo, you always would refer to your instructors as Mister. It was Mister... I hated it. I was like, "Just you, just don't do that."

Evan Hafer 1:33:31 How many years did you do that?

Joe Rogan 1:33:33 Oh, like, hardcore for seven years. Yeah, hardcore.

Evan Hafer 1:33:39 And then you switched over to jujitsu?

Joe Rogan 1:33:41 Yeah, I switched over to jujitsu a few years later. I stopped fighting when I was 22, and then I was a real... I was, like, doing comedy. I started doing comedy at 21, and I kind of half-assed, still trained and fought a few times while I was also doing comedy, but I didn't have the commitment that I had before. I'd, I'd had a series of events that led me out of, like, wanting to compete, and, uh, one of them was recognizing brain damage-

Evan Hafer 1:34:08 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:34:08 ... recognizing it in other people, recognizing it in friends, and then laying in bed with headaches after sparring sessions, going, "Okay, where does this lead? And I don't-- I'm not even making any money off of this." And then there was a guy that I hurt really bad in a tournament. I knocked this one guy out when I was 19. In California, I was competing in the nationals, and I KO'd this guy, and he never got up. They, they had to take him on a stretcher, and he was on a stretcher for half an hour, and then they took him to the hospital, and it freaked me out because I was like, "Well, that could have easily been me. It, it easily could have been me." And, um, that one bothered me, 'cause I was like, "What am I doing?" Like, "Why am I doing this?" Like, I'm, I'm trying to win, you know, the national championships. I'm trying to be, uh, in the Olympics. I'm trying to do these things, but I'm like, "Okay, well, where does that lead me? To teaching? Do I really want to..." I was already teaching at the time, "But do I really want to teach for a living forever?"

Evan Hafer 1:35:00 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:35:00 I'm like, "I don't think I do." There's not... You know, and then r- recognizing that the martial art that I had picked, taekwondo, had a lot of flaws in it. It was really good for kicking, [lips smack] but, um, it wasn't the best overall martial art. And when I started kickboxing, I really realized that. And then I started getting into Muay Thai, and I realized the power of leg kicks and the, the, with the devastating impact it has on your mobility, and, like, one or two leg kicks, and you're so compromised. I was like: Oh, this is... There's so many levels to this. So I was, like, kind of half-assing martial arts, like, the last year. Not, not nearly as committed. Like, I was all in, all throughout my high school years, all in, until I was 21. And then from 21 to 22, kind of half-assed it, and then I didn't start doing jujitsu until years later.

Evan Hafer 1:35:48 So what, what's going on at, like, 21, 22 in you? Like, what are you thinking? Do you remember what you were thinking? Like, uh, like, "I'm, I'm gonna be an actor. I'm gonna be a comic-"

Joe Rogan 1:35:56 No.

Evan Hafer 1:35:57 ... or, "I'm gonna be a-"

Joe Rogan 1:35:57 No, no, no.

Evan Hafer 1:35:57 Like, what are you, what are you thinking?

Joe Rogan 1:35:58 I didn't think I was gonna be a comic until I d- did an open mic night when I was 21. I d- and then even then, I was like, "This is just something that I, I think I can do." But when, when, and when I would bomb, I'd be like: "Fuck, I should go back to fighting. I just gotta-

Evan Hafer 1:36:13 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:36:13 ... get a f- get a few..." And then you know what happened? I tore my ACL, and when I tore my ACL, I had to have surgery, and I couldn't do anything for, like, six months. And then I realized, like, uh, like, my body's vulnerable. Like, you're, you're, you're counting on your tissue staying inc- intact in order to, like, live this life that you wanna live. So I had to get my knee reconstructed, and I was like, "All right." [exhales]

Evan Hafer 1:36:36 So that was the first knee-

Joe Rogan 1:36:38 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 1:36:38 ... knee reconstruction?

Joe Rogan 1:36:39 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:36:39 It was back then?

Joe Rogan 1:36:40 Yeah, I was 22, I think, when I blew it out. Twenty-one, somewhere around then. It was, like, right around the time when I was, like, s- thinking about stopping competing. It's like my... You know, like, the universe was like, "Let me help you."

Evan Hafer 1:36:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:36:54 "Uh, let me fuck your knee up real quick." So I had to get that fixed, and that takes a little while before it, it gets back to normal again. But, uh, the comedy became a thing where I was like: This is very exciting and really difficult to do, and so different than anything else I was doing, where you have to get the people to like you.

Evan Hafer 1:37:09 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:37:09 Like, it's dependent upon, like, personality and... Whereas with martial arts, I wanted them to not like me. I loved it. I di- I didn't have any problem. Like, "No one's gonna save you. Doesn't matter if these people hate me, and if you're looking at me, and there's just you and me and a referee..." I liked it. I liked that this person had, like, a bunch of... Like, so one of my favorite things was, like, hearing cheers stop. Like, when people are cheering, like, "Get him! Fuck yeah, kick his ass, kick his ass," then, [exhales] whump, and then the guy would collapse, and then you hear silence. You just hear silence, especially if you go to where they live.

Evan Hafer 1:37:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:37:45 Like, if you had to go to Ohio and fight in Ohio. I just loved that silence. It was this final moment. And my thing was, I would always walk away like it was normal. I would never celebrate. I would just walk away like that was, "I do this every day."

Evan Hafer 1:37:59 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:37:59 "I'm gonna do this to the next guy, too.

Evan Hafer 1:38:01 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:38:01 This is what I'm gonna do to you." And I would, I would always take naps, too. That was the other thing I did when everybody was freaking out before fighting, before sparring. I would go to sleep in front of everybody. I'd just put a hoodie on and just lie down on the ground and go to sleep.

Evan Hafer 1:38:15 ... Is that like a, were you trying to fuck with them a little bit or was-

Joe Rogan 1:38:18 It was a little bit of fucking with them.

Evan Hafer 1:38:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:19 It was a little bit of, "I'm, I'm so relaxed-

Evan Hafer 1:38:22 Right

Joe Rogan 1:38:22 ... I'm gonna take a nap here while you're freaking out." But it was also, I wanted to do it for my own mind.

Evan Hafer 1:38:27 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:38:27 I wanted to just, like, be... I wanted- I was so in my own head. I was just, it was-- I was so in my own, like, "What I'm going to do." I wasn't thinking about all these other external things until that one knockout. That's when I really started thinking about what could happen to me, 'cause I had gotten really lucky, where I never really got hurt in a tournament. Never-

Evan Hafer 1:38:49 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:38:49 ... never got dropped, never got knocked out, never got, never got really rocked, uh, but I did it to a lot of people. And then I was like, "This is coming around. Like, it's only a matter of time before I get whomped." It's just, it happens. It's just going to happen, and I'm gonna fight some national champion guy-

Evan Hafer 1:39:06 Right

Joe Rogan 1:39:06 ... and I'm gonna zig when I should've zagged, and I'm gonna catch a heel to my fucking jaw, and that's gonna be a wrap. I'm gonna be waking up in the hospital.

Evan Hafer 1:39:14 [lips smack] That's interesting that you had that thought early on to where you're like, "Ah," you know?

Joe Rogan 1:39:19 Well, I started seeing brain damage in, in other people, specifically when I started kickboxing, 'cause I was training at boxing gyms, and I started seeing guys that were starting to say, "Fucking..." There was, like, a slurry aspect to the way they talked. There was a labored thing to their speech. There was something about them-

Evan Hafer 1:39:38 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:39:38 ... and then I would see it degrade over time, you know? Like, I really started getting involved in sparring and, and boxing when I was about 19, and that was also around the time where I started losing my enthusiasm for taekwondo because I just realized it, the no punching to the face thing in tournaments was so limited. It really r- it, it fucked you up because it gave you this illusion that you could pull things off-

Evan Hafer 1:40:01 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:40:02 ... where all the guy would have to do is jab you in the face. You're like, "Oh, okay." Like, at this distance, you can't do the thing that you normally do in a taekwondo tournament.

Evan Hafer 1:40:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:40:11 You have to be much more aware defensively. So I had to recalibrate my offense and my tactics, and so then I just, I started d- doing a lot of boxing and a lot of kickboxing, and I saw so much brain damage. I saw so much, like, unreported brain damage, just weird stuff. Guys would tell you the same story they just told you, like, five minutes ago.

Evan Hafer 1:40:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:40:32 They'd tell it to you again 'cause... And I was realizing, "Oh, these guys can't remember that they just said this thing five minutes ago." It was like they were stoned, you know, and they weren't, you know? They, they were just start- starting to exhibit the beginning signs of brain damage.

Evan Hafer 1:40:47 Hmm. [sniffs] So wh- when you're, w- when you're making those decisions early on, like, you're controlling, like, being able to control your emotions, right?

Joe Rogan 1:40:58 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:40:59 So your anxiety and being able to, like, put yourself into the right mental framework to go out and perform-

Joe Rogan 1:41:05 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 1:41:05 ... so regardless.

Joe Rogan 1:41:06 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:41:06 So you're competing in taekwondo. You're going out, you're actually performing at, like, open mics. Is that what you're doing at the time, where you're just like-

Joe Rogan 1:41:14 Yeah, when I was 21

Evan Hafer 1:41:15 ... stepping in?

Joe Rogan 1:41:15 Once I was 21, I started doing open mics, yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:41:17 And so being able to control your emotions, 'cause you gotta be freaking out a little bit-

Joe Rogan 1:41:22 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:41:22 ... seeing your friends-

Joe Rogan 1:41:22 Well, the first time, the first time I went on stage, I was more scared than I had ever been fighting, which I thought was crazy. So I started fighting before I could really be scared. I started fighting when I was 15. Those were, like-

Evan Hafer 1:41:33 Right

Joe Rogan 1:41:33 ... the first fights that I had. So you were scared, but you didn't... You were so stupid, you didn't know what could happen to you, and I was really lucky that I had a really good school. The school that I trained at was super technical. That was, uh... The guy who I trained under, this guy, Jae Hun Kim, he trained with, uh, General Choi Hong Hi, who was, like, the founder of taekwondo.

Evan Hafer 1:41:56 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:41:57 And so it was like s- the technique was perfect. Like, you had to have perfect technique. Like, the, if you did anything sloppy or anything, like, kinda out, they would correct you. Like, you had to have it down, and they emphasized a lot of heavy bag training, which a lot of schools didn't even have a heavy bag, which I thought was crazy. Like, we would go and do these, um, these things where we'd have, uh, our team would go and train with another team. Like, we would travel to New York, and there was a, like, another, an instructor that was friends with our instructor, and they would bring their competition teams to compete against each other, and we'd fight in a-

Evan Hafer 1:42:33 Right

Joe Rogan 1:42:34 ... in a gym. So it was like these unsanctioned fights that you would have, and, you know, you'd find people that were l- roughly your weight, and these guys didn't have heavy bags. And, uh, you'd go to their gym, they'd have, like, a, you know, strip mall-type gym, and there was, in their dojang, they didn't have a heavy bag. I was like, "This is crazy. You guys don't train with heavy bags?" And it didn't make any sense to me. They had kicking paddles and a bunch of different things, but they didn't have anything that would improve thrusting techniques and stabbing techniques, which, like, you need resistance. You need a heavy bag. And so our instructor was adamant about, like, "If you can't hurt somebody badly with one kick, you're, you're doing the wrong thing." You, you... These techniques were originally designed for war.

Evan Hafer 1:43:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:43:17 And you're, you're supposed to be able to have devastating power in everything you throw. That got lost a little when taekwondo got into the Olympics or when it was on the path to getting into the Olympics, and it became more of, like, point scoring. They would try to hit you and run away, hit you and run away, and it was a lot of, like, fast-moving techniques that didn't have the same sort of devastating impact. So where, I got real lucky in where I trained, is that they really emphasized power. And so the school that I was at was very feared because a lot of the other black belts were, like... The, the guys that I trained with were fucking really dangerous. Like, they were, they were known for, when they would go to a tournament, people would get scared because if these guys hit you, you're in trouble.

Evan Hafer 1:44:01 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:44:01 Like, these were dangerous cats, you know, that were, like, uh, just wheel-kicking people into another dimension-

Evan Hafer 1:44:08 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:44:08 ... turning side, kicking people, and crushing rib cages. It was a lot of that. And so the, I got real lucky that that's the gym that I started in, that I started with, like... You know, you imitate your atmosphere-

Evan Hafer 1:44:19 Right, right

Joe Rogan 1:44:19 ... you know? I was-

Evan Hafer 1:44:19 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:44:20 The first guy that I ever saw hit a bag was this guy, John Lee, and when I saw him, he was the national, uh, taekwondo light heavyweight champion, and he was competing... He was training to compete in the World Games.

Evan Hafer 1:44:30 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:44:31 So he was about to go to, uh, I guess it was the World Cup.... and he was in full training mode, like, the moment I walked into the gym, and I watched him fold this heavy bag. And as I was going up the stairs, I could hear the sound of it. This is, I was just visiting this gym. I was w- leaving a baseball game at Fenway Park, and, uh, me and my friend just walked up the stairs just because we didn't wanna wait-

Evan Hafer 1:44:51 Right

Joe Rogan 1:44:51 ... for the T. It took so long for so many people leaving the baseball game. There was gonna be big lines, it was gonna be packed, so let's just walk up here and see what's going on. And as we were walking up the stairs, I heard this sound that I'll never forget. It was like, whump, ka-ching, whump, ka-ching! And the ka-ching was the chains-

Evan Hafer 1:45:10 Right

Joe Rogan 1:45:10 ... of the heavy bag, 'cause this 120-pound bag was flying through the air when this guy would hit it.

Evan Hafer 1:45:17 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:45:17 And the, the, the chains are going, shing, and rattling, and then he would come down, he would set it up again. And he was seven, 10 feet from me. Like, there was this, like, little ledge where you could sit and watch people, and they had set it up like that, so the heavy bag was set up right where people would walk in, 'cause it was a great recruitment tool.

Evan Hafer 1:45:35 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:45:35 'Cause you would really get to see what people are capable of. And the moment I saw that, I was like, "I wanna know how to do that." Like, "How do you do that?" Like, th- he was doing spinning back kicks over and over again, turning sidekicks, and just folding this fucking bag in half. I'm like, "That's crazy that a person could gen..." I didn't think a person could generate that kind of force. And, uh, I trained with him a lot, and I learned from him a lot. He taught me a lot. And he was an interesting guy, too, 'cause he was like a real street guy. Like, he'd been in and out of jail, wound up having a substance problem, but he was this funny dude from Chelsea, which was, like, a real hard, dangerous neighborhood in Boston.

Evan Hafer 1:46:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:46:17 And just a fucking killer, man, a killer. Just a killer. And when he would, when he would compete, people would get so nervous. It was crazy to watch. 'Cause I started to see... I started training with him and going to tournaments with him when I was a white belt. So I was a white belt, and he was a black belt national champion.

Evan Hafer 1:46:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:46:35 And when John Lee would show up, you'd see people whispering like, "Fuck, John Lee's here." [exhales] You would see guys take these deep breaths-

Evan Hafer 1:46:41 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:46:41 ... 'cause they knew he, he was in their weight class.

Evan Hafer 1:46:43 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:46:43 Like, "Fuck! Fuck." 'Cause they knew this guy wasn't trying to win on points, he was trying to break your body. He was trying to just crush your organs. He was trying to separate your fucking brain from the inside of its skull. He was trying to hurt you, and he did it to a lot of people. I watched him knock out a lot of people.

Evan Hafer 1:47:04 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:47:04 A lot of people. It was wild to see. So, like, you know... But it was, to me, it was just, like, this new thing that was going to change who I am, you know? I w- I went, for the first time in my life, I felt like I wasn't a loser.

Evan Hafer 1:47:20 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:47:21 'Cause I was, like, really good at this thing that was scary, you know? And I just threw myself into it. It was my whole life. I didn't do anything. I didn't party, I didn't go to... [exhales] I didn't- I had very few friends outside of high school, you know? I was... It was, my whole thing was just training. I'd get home from school, get something to eat, immediately leave, hop on the train, head into town, every day.

Evan Hafer 1:47:42 That was, like, 15?

Joe Rogan 1:47:43 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:47:43 Yeah. Well, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:47:44 Yeah, from, like, the summer of my freshman year of high school.

Evan Hafer 1:47:48 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:47:48 And that's when I fart- first started. Right, right, like, when I s- graduated from high school, in my freshman year, I started training, and it was nuts. It was just, like, this complete new life. It was so weird. And then competing, like, and traveling around competing, first as, like, a white belt, then a blue belt, then working my way up, purple belt, and then all of a sudden, or, uh, in taekwondo, red belt is brown belt-

Evan Hafer 1:48:13 Right

Joe Rogan 1:48:14 ... and then black belt. And then my instructor was crazy. He would let me compete as a black belt before I was a black belt. He let me compete in the men's division when I was 16.

Evan Hafer 1:48:24 [exhales] Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:48:24 Yeah, it was nuts.

Evan Hafer 1:48:25 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 1:48:27 Yeah, it was just, they... If they thought you had potential, they'd just throw you right into the flames. Like, "Let's see. Let's see what you can do."

Evan Hafer 1:48:35 So the confidence it gives you, right, it's like finding something that you're good at?

Joe Rogan 1:48:40 Yeah, it was like-

Evan Hafer 1:48:40 The validity of that

Joe Rogan 1:48:40 ... all of a sudden, I real- well, all of a sudden, I got obsessed with something-

Evan Hafer 1:48:44 Right

Joe Rogan 1:48:44 ... where I'd never had really worked hard at anything in my life.

Evan Hafer 1:48:47 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:48:47 And then I had abs. I was like, "This is crazy." Like, I'd look at myself in the mirror, I had abs. All of a sudden, I had muscles everywhere. I was like, "This is nut..." 'Cause you're going through puberty.

Evan Hafer 1:48:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:48:56 At the- so, so you're this doughy little fucking kid, this scrawny, doughy little kid that never did any sports other than baseball, and then all of a sudden, I'm shredded, and I, I know how to fuck people up, and then I was doing it to, like, live humans-

Evan Hafer 1:49:09 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:49:10 ... all over the country. Like, traveling everywhere. We traveled. That's all we did, we just traveled.

Evan Hafer 1:49:14 So how does that go from... How do you go from there, though, like, like, why or how did you go, "I'm gonna go do stand-up?" Like, what was the... What, what was that?

Joe Rogan 1:49:25 It was really my friends.

Evan Hafer 1:49:26 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:49:26 It was really... Yeah, my friend Steve Graham, who, I'm still friends with to this day, he was a real maniac. He was on the US Ski Team. He was a f- he was a, uh, a flight pilot with the Navy. Uh, or not a flight pilot, a flight surgeon with the Navy.

Evan Hafer 1:49:41 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:49:41 He was an ophthalmologist. Like, an insanely hardworking guy, like, unbelievably disciplined. And, um, he wa- he got into taekwondo while he was a doctor-

Evan Hafer 1:49:52 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:49:52 ... you know, while he was an ophthalmologist. He's a maniac-

Evan Hafer 1:49:54 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:49:54 ... to this day. This dude's had, like... He's still a good friend. He's had, like, 70 fucking surgeries. He's had his knees replaced, still trains, still spars.

Evan Hafer 1:50:00 Still trains.

Joe Rogan 1:50:01 Yeah. Yeah, he's, like, in his 60s now. He's a fucking nut.

Evan Hafer 1:50:04 And so he's like, "Hey, you're funny. You should go do this?"

Joe Rogan 1:50:07 We would go to tournaments, and when we would go to tournaments, or when we'd have sparring days, in particular, everybody was super nervous. It was dar- very dangerous. And, um, so I would be the one who would break the ice. I would be the one who would make fun of everybody and do impressions of everybody, and I was, I always was cracking everybody up, and it was a captive audience-

Evan Hafer 1:50:28 Right, right

Joe Rogan 1:50:28 ... you know? 'Cause, and, and everyone was looking for, like, relief from the fact that there was this ten- like, we would be on a bus headed to, like, Poughkeepsie, New York, to go compete in a tournament, and I would be the one on the bus, like, making fun of everything, just cracking everybody up.

Evan Hafer 1:50:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:50:41 And my friend Steve said, "You should be a stand-up. You should try it."... You should just try it." And I'd be like: "Look, you think I'm funny because you like me."

Evan Hafer 1:50:49 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:50:49 I'd go, "Other, other people are gonna think I'm an asshole."

Evan Hafer 1:50:51 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:50:51 Like, my sense of humor was very dark. [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:50:54 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:50:55 It's like, I was very crazy back then, 'cause I was living a crazy life. And then, um, did an open mic night, and then I said, "I think I might be able to do this."

Evan Hafer 1:51:04 Did you bomb, like, straight away?

Joe Rogan 1:51:06 Oh, yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:51:06 Was it just like awkward?

Joe Rogan 1:51:06 No, I didn't do well.

Evan Hafer 1:51:07 No.

Joe Rogan 1:51:07 I got a couple of laughs, like, "Ha ha ha." It wasn't good.

Evan Hafer 1:51:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:51:11 But everybody sucks.

Evan Hafer 1:51:11 Do you remember any, any of the jokes that you fuck-

Joe Rogan 1:51:14 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:51:14 ... that you rolled out with?

Joe Rogan 1:51:15 Here, here's my impression of a good-looking girl getting pulled over by the cops: "Do you realize how fast you were going?" "No, do you like my tits?" "Yes, I do. Here's a warning." It was terrible.

Evan Hafer 1:51:24 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:51:24 It was so bad.

Evan Hafer 1:51:25 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:51:26 It was so bad. I had so many bad jokes. Um, but I also realized, like, everybody sucks in the beginning, and then I thought back to martial arts. I go, "Oh, this is like everything."

Evan Hafer 1:51:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:51:37 Like, if you start off, you suck. Like, everything... And the whole thing is, like, getting better at this thing you suck at. Wh- which is like, one- I had this guy, uh, Tommy Woods, Dr. Tommy Woods. We were talking about new things, about the, the value in terms of, like, people that acquire dementia, and one of the best ways to, to, like, to keep your brain fresh is do new things.

Evan Hafer 1:51:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:51:58 Do things that you're not good at, and learn how to do them and get better at. And I think I had sort of just applied what I had learned from martial arts, 'cause obviously I wasn't good at martial arts when I started. I was terrible. Everybody's terrible. You don't know what you're doing.

Evan Hafer 1:52:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:52:10 And then you, you realize, like, oh, through repetitive effort, concentration, focus, discipline, you're gonna get better. It's a path. And so I was like, "Oh, this is a new thing," but it's also a new thing filled with other misfits, 'cause I was a misfit, right?

Evan Hafer 1:52:25 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:52:25 And it was like, oh, well, these comedians are misfits, too. They didn't have regular rules. They always wanted to smoke pot and drink beer, and, you know, they stayed up late, and they slept late, and they were, they were just maniacs. I was like, "Okay, I could hang out with these people." Like, regular people that wanted a regular job scare the shit out of me, 'cause I don't wanna get sucked into your drone-like f- frequency. I, I can't li- I've... I tried regular jobs. Like, this is not gonna work for me. I'm too ADD-

Evan Hafer 1:52:52 Right

Joe Rogan 1:52:53 ... ADHD, whatever the fuck it is. Whatever it is, I got it.

Evan Hafer 1:52:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:52:55 I'm like, "I can't do this." But those people were misfits. They were these weird renega- and then occasionally, professionals would go up, and you'd realize, like, "Wow, this guy's a master," like, the mastery he has of, like, concepts, and jokes, and tricking you into thinking one thing, and then he hits you with another thing. I'm like, God, and the smoothness of it all. It just became a, an obsession.

Evan Hafer 1:53:17 Do you remember the guy, the, the, like, you looked at?

Joe Rogan 1:53:20 There was this one guy, Teddy Bergeron. There was this guy who had been on The Tonight Show, and he unfortunately developed a substance problem, which, uh, a lot of people do. And I think some of it is just the pressure of stand-up, and the pressure of fame-

Evan Hafer 1:53:33 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:53:33 ... and the pressure of constantly performing. And, and then it's just also, like, just living that dirtbag life, where you're just like, you could do whatever you want. It doesn't matter. Do coke, you know, and they're just doing coke, and like... There was clubs that would pay you in coke.

Evan Hafer 1:53:47 What?

Joe Rogan 1:53:48 Yeah, they would o-

Evan Hafer 1:53:48 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:53:48 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nick's Comedy Stop would offer you cocaine or cash in the 1980s. Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:53:56 I, I can see that.

Joe Rogan 1:53:56 [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:53:56 I can see how, I can see how this, this thing becomes super addicting.

Joe Rogan 1:54:01 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:54:01 And this is, like, your dirtbag life.

Joe Rogan 1:54:03 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:54:03 Right, it's the... It's that same parallel we're talking about-

Joe Rogan 1:54:06 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:54:06 ... where it's like this becomes the rock that you're climbing every day.

Joe Rogan 1:54:09 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:54:09 Because this is the audience that you have to entertain, it becomes about getting better, honing a craft, like, and ultimately succeeding with the crowd right in front of you, and they're giving you the feedback.

Joe Rogan 1:54:20 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:54:20 And that's very similar. Like, you're either getting higher on the rock or you're falling off. So-

Joe Rogan 1:54:25 And the falling off was important, because the bombings would really teach you, you didn't want that. So what was it about the bomb- like, what did you... How did you bomb? What did you do wrong?

Evan Hafer 1:54:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:54:37 What, what went wrong? What's wrong with your material? What's wrong- like, are you being lazy in the way you're setting things up?

Evan Hafer 1:54:41 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:54:41 Like, what are you doing wrong? And then figuring it out, because y- that pain of bombing was so... Like, sometimes it's bad to do well a bunch of times-

Evan Hafer 1:54:49 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:54:49 ... because then you just get relaxed. Like, you can't be relaxed. Like, you have to, like, constantly grinding at it. You have to constantly be taking that fucking thing apart and trying to figure out what, how to make it better.

Evan Hafer 1:55:01 The guys like, um, like Andy Kaufman, right? They would go out, and they had a whole shtick-

Joe Rogan 1:55:05 Mm

Evan Hafer 1:55:05 ... and nobody understood what the fuck they were doing, and it was like-

Joe Rogan 1:55:08 That's a different thing.

Evan Hafer 1:55:09 It-

Joe Rogan 1:55:09 Yeah

Evan Hafer 1:55:09 ... but it's-

Joe Rogan 1:55:10 It's a different thing

Evan Hafer 1:55:10 ... wild. Like, it is-

Joe Rogan 1:55:11 It is wild

Evan Hafer 1:55:12 ... 'cause it's almost an intentional-

Joe Rogan 1:55:13 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 1:55:15 You're bombing intentionally, but it's funny. You're- you gotta, like, stretch it out a little bit to understand what, what's going on, and it's a different-

Joe Rogan 1:55:23 It's-

Evan Hafer 1:55:23 ... individual psychology.

Joe Rogan 1:55:25 It's a different thing.

Evan Hafer 1:55:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:26 He's doing a different thing. My criticism of that, and I don't really have a criticism, maybe that's the wrong word, because I think Kaufman was brilliant. He was brilliant on Taxi. He was an interesting character. The shit he did with pro wrestling was just bananas.

Evan Hafer 1:55:39 Bananas.

Joe Rogan 1:55:39 He was wrestling women. [laughing]

Evan Hafer 1:55:41 It's wild. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:55:41 Fucking maniac.

Evan Hafer 1:55:42 It's so wild.

Joe Rogan 1:55:43 It was great.

Evan Hafer 1:55:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:44 It was so great. But he never was a great comic, right? Like, say, if, if-

Evan Hafer 1:55:49 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:55:49 ... Shane Gillis decided to go that path and just bomb on purpose-

Evan Hafer 1:55:54 Right, right

Joe Rogan 1:55:54 ... that would be almost more interesting.

Evan Hafer 1:55:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:55:57 Like, here's a guy who knows how to kill. He's a real comic and one of the funniest guys ever.

Evan Hafer 1:56:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56:05 And then he starts saying, do- playing the theme to Mighty Mouse and just repeating, "Here I come to save the day."

Evan Hafer 1:56:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56:12 Like, this is what Andy Kaufman did.

Evan Hafer 1:56:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56:13 He would play a, have a record player-

Evan Hafer 1:56:15 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:56:15 ... and just play the Mighty Mouse theme song and just repeat, "Here I come to save the day." And everybody's like, "What the fuck is going on?" Like, it was like this weird mind fuck that he was doing-

Evan Hafer 1:56:24 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:56:24 ... with everybody, but he never did the other thing.

Evan Hafer 1:56:27 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:56:27 He never, like, really entertained and killed. Like, all the evidence of Andy Kaufman is of him doing this weird stuff, which again, it's not really a criticism-

Evan Hafer 1:56:37 Right

Joe Rogan 1:56:37 ... but he was doing a different thing. He was an odd guy-

Evan Hafer 1:56:39 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:56:40 ... who saw this thing, and he was like, "I think I can get in there and do something completely disruptive."

Evan Hafer 1:56:46 Right.... I can see that. Like, it's, it's very distinctly different.

Joe Rogan 1:56:51 Nothing wrong with it.

Evan Hafer 1:56:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56:52 I loved it. I loved especially the wrestling stuff, but it's not my favorite.

Evan Hafer 1:56:56 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:56:56 Like, if I had to ch- if someone told me Andy Kaufman's performing in this room over here, but Dave Attell is-

Evan Hafer 1:57:02 Right

Joe Rogan 1:57:02 ... in that room over there, I'm going to see Dave Attell.

Evan Hafer 1:57:04 Yeah, yeah, 'cause he's-

Joe Rogan 1:57:04 I wanna go see the master.

Evan Hafer 1:57:05 You're gonna laugh.

Joe Rogan 1:57:06 Yeah, I'm gonna laugh, and I'm gonna see a guy at the top of his craft-

Evan Hafer 1:57:10 Right, right

Joe Rogan 1:57:11 ... that's doing this hypnosis on everybody, and, and you're just leave there, your sides hurt, and you're dying. You don't leave there going, "What the fuck was that?" Like, but he wanted people to leave there and go, "What the fuck was that?"

Evan Hafer 1:57:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57:22 That was the magic of Andy Kaufman. But it's just not my... You know-

Evan Hafer 1:57:26 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:57:27 ... I don't like jazz, and I don't wanna go see jazz. I-

Evan Hafer 1:57:29 It's hard to like.

Joe Rogan 1:57:30 It's, I think like it's kinda cool background music, but I'm not leaving the house-

Evan Hafer 1:57:34 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:57:35 ... to go see Ja- but I know people who fucking love it.

Evan Hafer 1:57:37 Like, so if you think back to Taxi, like I was thinking about this the other day with like Danny DeVito in Taxi. Like, that guy's still going. Like-

Joe Rogan 1:57:46 I know.

Evan Hafer 1:57:46 It's incredible, man.

Joe Rogan 1:57:47 I know.

Evan Hafer 1:57:47 Like, I was... And it just like a snippet of Taxi came up, and I was like, "Holy shit, how old is Danny DeVito?" [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:57:53 He's 150,000 years old.

Evan Hafer 1:57:55 He's like [chuckles] -

Joe Rogan 1:57:56 Tony Danza's long since retired.

Evan Hafer 1:57:57 Holy shit!

Joe Rogan 1:57:59 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:57:59 That guy just keeps going, and he looked old in Taxi.

Joe Rogan 1:58:01 Is Judd Hirsch still alive?

Evan Hafer 1:58:04 I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know, like but-

Joe Rogan 1:58:07 That was a great show.

Evan Hafer 1:58:08 That was a great show, and like-

Joe Rogan 1:58:10 That was a great show. Was it-

1:58:11 I think he's 90.

Evan Hafer 1:58:12 He's 90?

Joe Rogan 1:58:13 Yep.

1:58:13 His Mary- Mary Lou Henner was Taxi, too, right? Wasn't she on Taxi?

1:58:17 Yep.

1:58:18 Mary Lou Henner, you know, she has that crazy mind thing where she remembers everything.

Evan Hafer 1:58:23 Seriously?

Joe Rogan 1:58:24 Everything. You can give her a, a date, and she could tell you, like, 1973-

Evan Hafer 1:58:30 Right

Joe Rogan 1:58:30 ... you know, February 2nd.

Evan Hafer 1:58:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:58:31 She'll tell you what day it was. She can tell you what happened on that day. She can d- c- tell you news things.

Evan Hafer 1:58:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:58:38 She can tell you what she was doing that day. She's r- she has, like, not just a photographic member, memory, but a complete recall of all events and dates. I forget what the term is.

1:58:48 Superior autobiographical memory ability.

Evan Hafer 1:58:51 Oh, my gosh.

Joe Rogan 1:58:51 Yeah.

1:58:52 Can remember almost every day of her life since she was 11.

1:58:55 Isn't that nuts?

Evan Hafer 1:58:56 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:58:57 And she's gotta be 70 years old, right?

1:58:59 73, I think is what-

1:59:00 73?

1:59:00 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:59:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:59:01 She remembers everything.

Evan Hafer 1:59:02 He... The funny thing is, is DeVito's still funny.

Joe Rogan 1:59:05 Yeah!

Evan Hafer 1:59:06 Like, like he's still funny. Like, I mean, like the, the way that it- he lands jokes, I mean, Always Sunny-

Joe Rogan 1:59:13 Oh, yeah

Evan Hafer 1:59:13 ... how many seasons is that? Like 20 now? I don't know. But I mean, it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:59:17 How many fucking-

Evan Hafer 1:59:18 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:59:18 ... like, things has he done?

Evan Hafer 1:59:20 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:59:21 Taxi to Oh, Taxi was when I was a boy-

Evan Hafer 1:59:23 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:59:24 ... to Always Sunny.

Evan Hafer 1:59:25 That was the thing my dad used to watch.

Joe Rogan 1:59:27 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:59:27 And, like, my dad seems old. My dad's 80 years old, right?

Joe Rogan 1:59:30 [laughs]

Evan Hafer 1:59:30 My dad used to watch that. Right, like-

Joe Rogan 1:59:32 How old is Danny DeVito?

1:59:34 81.

1:59:35 81.

Evan Hafer 1:59:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:59:36 Still banging it out.

Evan Hafer 1:59:37 Still fucking killing it, man.

Joe Rogan 1:59:38 Still funny.

Evan Hafer 1:59:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:59:39 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:59:39 I mean, how old's... I, I'm not trying to equate Ron White to Danny, but I'm saying, like, how old's Ron? 'Cause he's still killing it.

Joe Rogan 1:59:45 70?

1:59:46 Yeah.

1:59:46 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:59:46 70?

Joe Rogan 1:59:46 Around 70, yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:59:47 Like, I was watching him the other night, and, you know, he flew back from wherever he was, and he just, like, came in and, and stood up there and did a set. Like, he just kind of, like, walked in almost.

Joe Rogan 1:59:57 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 1:59:57 It felt like he was just like, "Yeah, I'm here. I'm just gonna stop in and do this." And then he fucking killed seamlessly, just... He was perfect. He-

Joe Rogan 2:00:07 He's good as- he's better, I think, than he's ever been right now.

Evan Hafer 2:00:10 I, I've never... Like, like, watching somebody that's great, and then watching somebody that's in another dimension, like him specifically, 'cause he's perfect. Like, it's just, it's absolutely perfect 'cause it comes off, it's unforced. It's a conversation. Like, he's just having a conversation with the crowd.

Joe Rogan 2:00:28 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:00:29 Like, it's so incredible to watch somebody that can be perfect in their delivery but then be completely unassuming in the way that they're delivering it. Like-

Joe Rogan 2:00:41 Yeah

Evan Hafer 2:00:41 ... like, it's just a natural conversation, like a habit.

Joe Rogan 2:00:44 Casual.

Evan Hafer 2:00:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:00:45 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:00:45 It's completely casual.

Joe Rogan 2:00:46 Casual killing.

Evan Hafer 2:00:47 You don't even feel like you're in... Like you're, you're watching a stand-up comedian. You feel like you're watching somebody talk, and you know that it's coming. You think that it's coming, and you s- he still fucking delivers it with just a level of exceptionalism. You're like, "Fuck, man," like-

Joe Rogan 2:01:03 Well-

Evan Hafer 2:01:04 The guy's, the guy's incredible.

Joe Rogan 2:01:04 He... Yeah, I think it's one of those things where you keep working at it, you just keep getting better. And also, he stopped drinking.

Evan Hafer 2:01:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:10 So he stopped drinking a couple of years ago, and that changed everything. He got, lost a ton of weight, got way more focused, but, you know, he had been going hard for decades. And his doctor had to pull him aside and go, "Hey, man, you're gonna die."

Evan Hafer 2:01:25 Are all those guys still, still, like, all the Blue Collar Comedy Tour guys, are they still, are they still all doing it?

Joe Rogan 2:01:32 Foxworthy still does stand-up. I think he did stand-up recently with Ron, he... But I don't think he tours a lot.

Evan Hafer 2:01:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:01:39 I don't know about Larry the Cable Guy. I don't hear about him anymore.

Evan Hafer 2:01:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:01:42 I don't hear about the other guy, Bill Engvall. You don't hear much about him anymore. I think out of all them, Ron is the guy who's still... But out of all them, it was like Jeff Foxworthy was a great comic.

Evan Hafer 2:01:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:52 And then, you know, I think, in my opinion, Ron was the best. Ron's just a master. But, but also Ron is... He loves it, man. Like, he was there last night. He's, he performs all the time. He's always down. He's, he always l- leaves... Like, I always get text messages from him when I have shows. He wants to come and do a set. It's like he, he lives for it, man. He's constantly writing. He's constantly working on it. Like, that's his thing, man. He, he fu- enjoys the shit out of it. Still tours, still does the road, does better than ever, sells out everywhere, and you're getting the best show out of Ron that you've ever gotten out of him.

Evan Hafer 2:02:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:02:28 He's just, he's better now, I think, than he's ever been. Yeah, I really believe that, and it's crazy that at 70, he's still getting better. His material just keeps getting better, and it's always-... working at it. He's always working at it, you know?

Evan Hafer 2:02:40 Yeah, that, that, that whole thing about LA or whatever he did-

Joe Rogan 2:02:43 He just-

Evan Hafer 2:02:44 He just, it, it, it, it sounded like he pulled that out of his ass-

Joe Rogan 2:02:47 Um-

Evan Hafer 2:02:48 ... on stage. [chuckles] He was just telling a story about being on a flight, and you're like: "Holy shit, the- he's just telling me a story."

Joe Rogan 2:02:54 He was in the back room of the Comedy Store one night, where there's a back bar, and we were hanging out, and, uh, we were drinking. This was back in Ron's drinking days, and we're having a couple glasses of whiskey. And then, uh, Ron starts telling this story about how when he was, uh, stationed in Hawaii, he goes, "There was this place you can go, and, you know, there was a bunch of hookers. You get your dick sucked for, like, 20 bucks, man. I was there every fucking day." [chuckles] And he goes, "And then all these years later, I was watching the news story, and all these transvestite hookers were getting rounded up in the very area where I used to go every day, and I realized, oh, my God, I got my dick sucked about 100 times by men." And he was telling this t- this fucking hilarious bit. He- it wasn't a bit. He was just telling us this story. We were dying. I go, "Do you, have you ever said this on stage?" He goes: "No. Fuck no!" [laughing] I go, "You should tell that on stage."

Evan Hafer 2:03:49 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:03:49 I go, "Ron, that's hilarious." I go, "This..." We were dying laughing. I mean, it was like it was a bit, but it was just him telling a story. Just, and, and no intention-

Evan Hafer 2:03:59 Right, right

Joe Rogan 2:03:59 ... of ever saying-

Evan Hafer 2:04:00 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:00 We're in the back room. He goes from the back room onto the stage in the OR, the original room. He walks down the hallway. I go with him. He goes on stage, he goes, "Let me tell you a story about how I got my dick sucked about 100 times by men." [laughing]

Evan Hafer 2:04:16 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:04:17 And he just, he just goes into this story that it fucking murders, murders, like, like it had been a polished bit-

Evan Hafer 2:04:26 Man

Joe Rogan 2:04:26 ... that he had been working on for years. It was just a story. But Ron is a, a great storyteller, like a natural storyteller. Like, if he's not trying to be funny, he's funny.

Evan Hafer 2:04:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:37 He's, he doesn't have to, like, think about it. It's like, it's a... He's just got this personality, man. He just, he's just cool.

Evan Hafer 2:04:45 Yeah, he's like that, that, um, iconic western, almost a western storyteller.

Joe Rogan 2:04:50 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:04:50 Like, the guy that you would expect sitting at the campfire-

Joe Rogan 2:04:53 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 2:04:53 ... at hunting camp. That's, like, the old-

Joe Rogan 2:04:56 Yeah

Evan Hafer 2:04:57 ... you know, guide that's been around the t- 100 years.

Joe Rogan 2:05:00 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 2:05:00 Like, he's killed thousands of animals, he's packed shit out, and then he's got these stories-

Joe Rogan 2:05:06 Yeah

Evan Hafer 2:05:06 ... that you can't help but listen to.

Joe Rogan 2:05:08 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:05:09 And that's what he reminds me of. I'm like: "Man, this guy is so fucking perfect." And every time I see him, I'm like: "Holy shit, that's, that's the guy."

Joe Rogan 2:05:17 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:05:17 That's the guy.

Joe Rogan 2:05:18 He's an old master.

Evan Hafer 2:05:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:05:20 You know? It's, uh, there's not a lot of humans like that guy. He's the main reason why I was interested in moving to Austin. He was the first reason, 'cause I knew Ron had already lived here.

Evan Hafer 2:05:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:05:32 Ron was already moved here. Ron moved here in 2018.

Evan Hafer 2:05:36 Okay, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:05:36 And so, uh, he just got tired of it. He kept a place in Beverly Hills, and he would come visit us at the Comedy Store sometimes. But I was talking to him on the phone, and he's like: "Man, I fucking love it here." He goes, "There's no Hollywood bullshit." He goes, "If I wanna fly somewhere to work, I'm in the center of the country. It's easy to get anywhere. People are nice. Food's great." And he goes, "You just are not around Holly..." And I kept thinking: "Man, can I live in Austin?" Like, I always liked Austin, and-

Evan Hafer 2:06:00 Right, right

Joe Rogan 2:06:01 ... Ronnett was out here-

Evan Hafer 2:06:02 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 2:06:02 ... so when, I would come out here for work every now and then, and I'd always come out here and love doing stand-up here. I was like, like, that planted the first seed. And then when the pandemic hit, Ron was already here, and when I came out here to look at houses and, and stuff in... This is in May of 2020, so this is only a couple months into the lockdown, but I had already had enough. I was like: "I'm getting the fuck out of here." Like, I knew these cocksuckers in LA were never gonna give up the kind of control and power that they had-

Evan Hafer 2:06:31 Mm

Joe Rogan 2:06:31 ... over people's lives. They get off on it, those fucking weirdos. And so I was like: "Well, at least Ron will be there. Like, I'll hang out with Ron. Like, even if I never do stand-up again, at least Ron will be here." And then, you know, Ron was also the guy who convinced me that I have to open up a club. I had had the thought in my head, and I was thinking about doing it. We talked about doing it, and then Ron went on stage for the first time in, like, six months. It was in November of 2020, and then he grabs me by my shoulders when he got offstage, 'cause he fucking murdered. First of all, when he went on stage, they went crazy, and there's a giant standing ovation, 'cause there was no indoor shows anywhere else, uh, near there. It was like, we were doing it at The Vulcan. They had some shows they were doing at Cap City before Cap City went under, but they were, like, separating everybody-

Evan Hafer 2:07:16 Mm

Joe Rogan 2:07:16 ... by, like, 20 feet or some stupid shit. Like, as if the virus can't go through the a- it was dumb, right? Everything was dumb. But The Vulcan was just, like, unhinged. It was packed. I was like: "This is so crazy. This is such a super spreader party." And Ron went on stage, and he had gone over his notes and material, and he wasn't even sure if... He th- was thinking he was retired. He was talking about retiring.

Evan Hafer 2:07:37 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:07:37 "I think I'm retired." Did this one set, and then he grabs me by the shoulders, he goes, "Whatever the fuck we have to do, we're gonna keep doing this." Just... He goes, "You gotta open up that club." I'm like: "Okay, [chuckles] we're gonna open up the club." And then we started looking for locations, like, right afterwards. So, like, Ron was a, a key force. He's the godfather of the Austin comedy movement, like, where this pl- became, like, this big hub. It started with Ron, 100%.

Evan Hafer 2:08:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:08:04 'Cause I know if he was here, if he was here, at least I'd have my friend. I could go hang out.

Evan Hafer 2:08:09 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 2:08:10 Like, 'cause, like, even if I couldn't do stand-up again, just l- I need someone who's just a renegade. I need a, a d- a dude I can hang out with, that's just... That's a real comic, that we're gonna have fun. We could just talk shit and laugh and-

Evan Hafer 2:08:22 Well, who would you hang out with when you were in LA?

Joe Rogan 2:08:24 Him.

Evan Hafer 2:08:25 Him?

Joe Rogan 2:08:25 Him when he was there until 2018, always. But, of course, Joey Diaz.

Evan Hafer 2:08:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:08:29 And, you know, when the pandemic hit, Joey moved to New Jersey. He's like, "Fuck this place," and, you know, he, he was on the same things as me, "Fuck these people, this is..." And he always wanted to go back home to New Jersey, which was, you know, where he's from.

Evan Hafer 2:08:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:08:41 And then, uh, Duncan moved to North Carolina. Like, uh, everybody moved out.... but it was like Duncan, I hung out with Duncan, Segura, Ari, uh, Bert, all those people that were, you know, the mainstays at The Comedy Store. There was just- there was a j- an amazing crew. Tony Hinchcliffe, of course.

Evan Hafer 2:08:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:08:59 And Tony was one of the first guys to move out here, too, with me. And then Segura moved out here, and then everybody moved out here, and just like this wave started.

Evan Hafer 2:09:06 Is there anybody that you're, like, who you started with, like, back in the day? Like, 'cause you were what, Boston?

Joe Rogan 2:09:11 Mm-hmm.

Evan Hafer 2:09:12 Like, was there anybody you started with that you're still like-

Joe Rogan 2:09:14 Yeah, Fitzsimmons, Greg Fitzsimmons.

Evan Hafer 2:09:16 Oh, okay. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:09:16 We're real tight. [clears throat] Greg Fitzsimmons started one week, uh, up- I think I started a week after him or before him, something like that-

Evan Hafer 2:09:24 Mm

Joe Rogan 2:09:24 ... but we're separated by one week.

Evan Hafer 2:09:26 Oh, seriously?

Joe Rogan 2:09:26 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:09:27 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 2:09:27 We did open mics together.

Evan Hafer 2:09:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:09:28 We traveled around together. We did road... We would drive 90 minutes to do five minutes for free.

Evan Hafer 2:09:33 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:09:33 Yeah, we would drive to Rhode Island to do stand-up for free. We traveled all over the, the, all over New England. We did road gigs together. Yeah, we came up together. We had so much fun. We just, we had no money, no career, no even thought of one day having a career. The, the goal was, I wanna be able to make a living doing comedy-

Evan Hafer 2:09:54 Mm

Joe Rogan 2:09:54 ... 'cause we knew that there was guys in town that were headliners that could, you know, grind out 100 grand, 50 grand, whatever it is, a year, j- only doing comedy. They didn't have to do anything else. I was like, "That's the dream." Imagine if you could pay your bills with comedy.

Evan Hafer 2:10:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:10:09 The idea of a career was like th- n- no, we never even talked about it, because everybody in Boston stayed in Boston. Nobody left, and other than, like, Steven Wright and Jay Leno, there was, like, a few people that had kind of, air quotes, "made it," you know, during that time period and left Boston.

Evan Hafer 2:10:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:10:26 The goal in Boston was just to be a good comic.

Evan Hafer 2:10:29 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:10:29 It was a real interesting thing because it was a real artist colony in, in a, in the most unpretentious of ways, 'cause these guys were all coke-snortin', whiskey-drinking psychopaths, and a lot of them were big guys, like these big fucking football player-looking dudes who were just animals. And they were just wild men, you know? And they, they had this life that was so envious to me. I was like, "God, to be so free, where all you have to do is just tell jokes?"

Evan Hafer 2:10:59 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:10:59 You don't have to ever show up at the fucking h- the newspaper depot to deliver newspapers or drive... I was driving limos and doing construction gigs. I didn't have to do any of that. You could just do comedy, and that was me and Greg. We would just drive around just thinking, like, "One day, imagine being able to make a living doing this?" That was the, the only goal. And then, uh, we both wind up event- He moved to New York for a bit, and I lived in New York for a while, and then I moved to LA, and then he eventually moved to LA as well, and, uh, now he's still there. He's still back in LA.

Evan Hafer 2:11:33 Gosh, I can't imagine, man, like, living there and staying there, even for a, even professionally.

Joe Rogan 2:11:40 Did you see what they just did to the guys that won the Super Bowl? Did you see the jock tax?

Evan Hafer 2:11:45 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:46 Jamie, you see the jock tax?

Speaker 2:11:47 Yeah, it's not a new thing, though.

Joe Rogan 2:11:49 I understand.

Evan Hafer 2:11:49 It's not?

Joe Rogan 2:11:50 I understand.

Evan Hafer 2:11:51 Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:11:51 But the t- but it is... It's specific to California.

Speaker 2:11:55 Yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 2:11:55 And this jock tax in California, um, there were s- some of the players m- lost money playing in the Super Bowl.

Speaker 2:12:03 That is not true. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:12:04 They had to pay... Oh, no, no, it is true.

Speaker 2:12:05 I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 2:12:06 No, no, it is true. I've- I ran it through AI last night.

Speaker 2:12:09 Ah, I don't...

Joe Rogan 2:12:10 No, it was in G- they, they pulled it up on Grok-

Speaker 2:12:12 I know

Joe Rogan 2:12:13 ... and people analyzed it.

Speaker 2:12:14 Ah.

Joe Rogan 2:12:14 And it's based... No, no, Jamie.

Speaker 2:12:16 I'm just-

Joe Rogan 2:12:16 It's ba- Jamie-

Speaker 2:12:17 I-

Joe Rogan 2:12:17 ... it's based on the seven days that they had to be there. So you have to pay a fee based on the seven days, dependent upon what your salary is.

Speaker 2:12:26 They played a game there in-

Joe Rogan 2:12:27 So it's a percentage

Speaker 2:12:28 ... January, though, too.

Joe Rogan 2:12:30 Okay.

Evan Hafer 2:12:31 It'll be this year.

Joe Rogan 2:12:32 Okay, with whatever. Well, the Super Bowl, specifically, these guys... Jamie's so funny. [chuckles]

Speaker 2:12:38 [chuckles] This is not... I know, but this is one of those things that's not real.

Joe Rogan 2:12:40 What do you mean it's not real? I re- I told you, it was run through AI last night. He made $178,000 for the Super Bowl. He had to pay $249,000 in tax. I'm pretty sure those are the numbers, and it's based on the fact that he was there for seven days, so it's a percentage-

Evan Hafer 2:12:58 Oh, shit

Joe Rogan 2:12:59 ... of your income over the course of a year.

Evan Hafer 2:13:00 Yeah, okay.

Joe Rogan 2:13:00 So if he makes $2 million a year-

Evan Hafer 2:13:02 Right, right, right, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 2:13:02 ... and he's there for seven days-

Evan Hafer 2:13:04 Right

Joe Rogan 2:13:04 ... this is how much money you have to pay.

Evan Hafer 2:13:06 Gotcha. Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:13:07 And so the Super Bowl pay is not... It's, like, on top of your normal salary.

Evan Hafer 2:13:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:13:12 Right? So it actually cost him money to play in the Super Bowl. So he made $178,000-

Evan Hafer 2:13:18 Mm

Joe Rogan 2:13:18 ... but because he's there for seven days, he had to pay 200 and something thousand dollars.

Evan Hafer 2:13:23 [sniffs] Did you watch it?

Joe Rogan 2:13:25 No.

Evan Hafer 2:13:25 No.

Joe Rogan 2:13:26 I was gonna watch it just for Bad Bunny-

Evan Hafer 2:13:27 Mm

Joe Rogan 2:13:27 ... just 'cause everybody was so pissed off. I thought it was hilarious, [chuckles] that this guy's like, like, "What do you fucking care?" Like, it's, like, this weird culture war that this guy is singing, and, uh, objectively, people that saw it said it was a great show. I don't know.

Evan Hafer 2:13:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:13:42 Gotta take their word for it.

Evan Hafer 2:13:43 My God, somebody was telling me the other day, they're like, "Oh, are you gonna watch the Super Bowl?" I'm like, "What? Super Bowl? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's, uh, sports. Gotcha." [chuckles] Yeah. Yeah. I was halfway through it or whatever, I'm like, "I have no idea what's going on, man." [chuckles] Like-

Joe Rogan 2:13:57 If it's your team-

Evan Hafer 2:13:58 I got other shit.

Joe Rogan 2:13:59 If it's your team, I get it.

Evan Hafer 2:14:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:00 It was the Patriots.

Evan Hafer 2:14:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:01 I could, I could root for the Patriots.

Evan Hafer 2:14:03 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:14:03 But it's like, uh, I'm busy.

Evan Hafer 2:14:06 I have to... [panting] It's, if it's on-

Joe Rogan 2:14:09 Yeah

Evan Hafer 2:14:09 ... like, at an airport or something, like, I'll watch it.

Joe Rogan 2:14:11 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:14:11 But, like, I'm not going out of my way. I'm not gonna be like, "Hey, let's watch some football."

Joe Rogan 2:14:14 If Aaron Rodgers was playing, I'd, I'd watch it.

Evan Hafer 2:14:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:16 Maybe I'd even go, if Aaron was playing. But it's like, [panting] there's... I, God, it's so hard to go from combat sports to regular sports for me.

Evan Hafer 2:14:25 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 2:14:25 It's so hard. It's so hard.

Evan Hafer 2:14:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:27 The UFC last Saturday was fucking spectacular.

Evan Hafer 2:14:30 Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan 2:14:30 And it was a small one in the Apex center, and it was, there were some incredible fights. It was so good. It's like, that to me is like, um... I don't have a lot of time for-

Evan Hafer 2:14:40 No

Joe Rogan 2:14:40 ... entertainment. That fills it all up.

Evan Hafer 2:14:43 Yeah, that fight, like in, I mean, Saturday, was like-

2:14:47 ... incredible.

Joe Rogan 2:14:48 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:14:48 It was, that was incredible.

Joe Rogan 2:14:49 Yeah, m- the, uh, Mario Bautista performance was fucking insane.

Evan Hafer 2:14:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:53 He's so good. That guy just keeps getting better. He looks like a world champion, and it's like you watch combat sports, and the, the consequences are so grave, what they're doing, the, the dedication, this moment that you train for months and months for this one moment when this referee's like, "Fighter one, you ready? Fighter two, you ready? Let's go!" And it's, woo, here we go. That, to me, is the most exciting thing out of all of sports, and it'll never stop being that to me. I love it.

Evan Hafer 2:15:21 So-

Joe Rogan 2:15:21 So f- football's fun. I like it. I've been to some UT games. UT games are fucking great. They're fun.

Evan Hafer 2:15:28 Well, this is, like, the state, right?

Joe Rogan 2:15:30 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:15:30 I mean, this is, like, this is not only, like, the, the state pastime, but people are, like, grown up-

Joe Rogan 2:15:34 Mm-hmm

Evan Hafer 2:15:35 ... they're completely modeled to go play Texas football.

Joe Rogan 2:15:39 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:15:39 I mean, this is, like, the-

Joe Rogan 2:15:40 They're-

Evan Hafer 2:15:41 ... icon of Texas sports.

Joe Rogan 2:15:42 Dedicated.

Evan Hafer 2:15:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:15:42 And it's just the enthusiasm for the crowd is nuts. I got to shoot the cannon once in a while there. They let me shoot-

Evan Hafer 2:15:48 Seriously?

Joe Rogan 2:15:48 ... the cannon off. Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:15:49 What? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:15:52 It was pretty cool. It's fun being on the, on the field and seeing these guys warm up and get ready, and then watching the game. Nighttime games are the best. They're nuts, man. And then, of course, they do the jet flyover, [whooshing] which is like, "America!"

Evan Hafer 2:16:05 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:16:06 You're flying over fighter jets over a football game. [laughing]

Evan Hafer 2:16:09 Just why?

Joe Rogan 2:16:10 That doesn't happen anywhere else.

Evan Hafer 2:16:11 No. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:16:11 They don't do that anywhere else. They'd never do that for a fight, fly fighter jets over.

Evan Hafer 2:16:15 No. That'd be cool, though.

Joe Rogan 2:16:16 It would be.

Evan Hafer 2:16:16 They should start. Like, maybe, maybe-

Joe Rogan 2:16:18 Wouldn't be able to see it

Evan Hafer 2:16:18 ... Dana would get it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:19 Maybe they could do it at the Sphere and have, like, the roof of the Sphere, like, show the jets as they pass over.

Evan Hafer 2:16:25 Maybe they'll do it at the White House UFC. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:16:27 They probably will.

Evan Hafer 2:16:28 I would imagine.

Joe Rogan 2:16:29 Well, they're probably gonna have air presence. I mean, w- how dangerous is that card gonna be?

Evan Hafer 2:16:33 Oh, my gosh.

Joe Rogan 2:16:33 In terms of, like, if you wanted to have some sort of a disruptive event, that's the spot.

Evan Hafer 2:16:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:39 At the White House, and you're having cage fights? And I'm not even convinced that it's gonna happen, because with all the crazy shit going on in the world, who knows what happens between now and June-

Evan Hafer 2:16:49 Right

Joe Rogan 2:16:50 ... when this is supposed to pop off. Like, who knows? Who knows what goes down between now-

Evan Hafer 2:16:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:55 Who knows what fucking happens with all this Epstein file shit? It just keeps getting crazier and crazier and crazier, and deeper and deeper. And so, uh, Ro Khanna and Massey just released the names of these guys that had been redacted from the list, and one of them is Lex Wek- what is his last name?

Speaker 2:17:15 Less.

Joe Rogan 2:17:15 Less Wexner, right, who's the CEO of, uh, Victoria's Secrets. Is he the CEO or the owner?

Speaker 2:17:23 Former CEO, but, or both.

Joe Rogan 2:17:24 Former s-

Evan Hafer 2:17:25 Both.

Joe Rogan 2:17:26 Former owner, CEO of Victoria's Secrets. He's being named as a co-conspirator now.

Evan Hafer 2:17:31 What?

Joe Rogan 2:17:31 Yes. Yeah, so he's being named, along with Ghislaine Maxwell-

Evan Hafer 2:17:36 Mm

Joe Rogan 2:17:36 ... and Jeffrey Epstein. He, because, you know, he runs this modeling through Victoria's Secrets-

Evan Hafer 2:17:42 Right

Joe Rogan 2:17:42 ... hot girls, the whole deal. Somehow or another, he's involved in this, and they had redacted his name up until now, right?

Speaker 2:17:49 Pretty sure, yeah. Uh, that I d- well, two things: I don't think anybody... uh, the, his existence as a co-conspirator is n- new information.

Joe Rogan 2:17:58 But it's confirmed now, right?

Speaker 2:18:00 It was... People, I think, are up in arms is that it wasn't supposed to be blocked out from the files-

Joe Rogan 2:18:04 Exactly

Speaker 2:18:05 ... because he's, uh, not a victim.

Joe Rogan 2:18:07 Right, he's not a victim, so why was his name redacted?

Speaker 2:18:09 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 2:18:09 And so they got it unredacted, and now he's being named.

Speaker 2:18:13 I think he's the fun- the funder of most of it, is what I've seen.

Evan Hafer 2:18:15 What?

Joe Rogan 2:18:16 Right.

Speaker 2:18:16 Which was in charge of this whole-

Joe Rogan 2:18:16 So people knew that there was something going on, but he had gifted Jeffrey Epstein this insane house in Manhattan. So this is, like, a $60 million house in Manhattan. You know, the house where you go into it, and you see Bill Clinton in a dress?

Evan Hafer 2:18:31 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:18:32 You know that picture that we have out in the lobby?

Evan Hafer 2:18:33 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:18:34 That's from the foyer-

Evan Hafer 2:18:36 Oh, shit

Joe Rogan 2:18:36 ... of his house-

Evan Hafer 2:18:37 Right

Joe Rogan 2:18:37 ... that Jeffrey Epstein was gifted by Les Wexner.

Evan Hafer 2:18:42 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:18:42 By the way, Whitney Webb posted on her Twitter about Les Wexner being a sex trafficker, a child sex trafficker in 2020. See, you find that.

Speaker 2:18:59 Yeah, absolutely-

Joe Rogan 2:19:00 Like, that, that crazy chick is right about everything.

Speaker 2:19:03 The one, the lady-

Joe Rogan 2:19:04 She's-

Speaker 2:19:05 ... was kidnapped, or she was claiming she was kidnapped, it was in his house in New Albany or, uh, Columbus. Like, she was, she claimed she was being held there for, I don't know, two weeks or something, like, doing art. She called her dad to try to get out of there or something like that.

Joe Rogan 2:19:19 Oh, Jesus.

Speaker 2:19:20 Yeah, and that's, like, his, uh, involvement isn't, like, brand-new information.

Joe Rogan 2:19:23 This was in Columbus, Ohio?

Speaker 2:19:24 Well, New Albany is where all the... Like, that's where his house is, the giant, the biggest house in Ohio, I think. It's a suburb of Columbus. It'd be like-

Joe Rogan 2:19:32 Oh

Speaker 2:19:32 ... Westlake to Austin.

Joe Rogan 2:19:33 Right. Right, right. [groans]

Speaker 2:19:37 People think he's still there. That's where Epstein's living, but that's not accurate.

Joe Rogan 2:19:40 Well, the people that think he's alive, I think they think he's in Israel, don't they?

Speaker 2:19:45 Well, there's some... Definitely, I think, I think they're AI photos. They might not be.

Joe Rogan 2:19:48 Oh, I saw that. Yeah.

Speaker 2:19:50 But people think he's been seen or spotted around town.

Joe Rogan 2:19:53 Wouldn't you think he'd get some surgery?

Evan Hafer 2:19:55 You would think that he would have to.

Joe Rogan 2:19:57 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:19:57 Like, he's probably one of the most recognizable faces in-

Joe Rogan 2:20:00 Yeah

Evan Hafer 2:20:00 ... the world at this point-

Joe Rogan 2:20:01 Yeah

Evan Hafer 2:20:01 ... like, after so much airtime.

Joe Rogan 2:20:03 You would have to get some surgery-

Speaker 2:20:05 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:20:05 ... if you wanted to still... I mean, how would you-

Speaker 2:20:07 Seriously

Joe Rogan 2:20:07 ... how would you keep that? This is the tweet: "Your reminder that Leslie Wexner financed the mass rape and trafficking of thousands of American children for over a decade, and right now he is sitting in a 26k square foot mansion in New Albany, Ohio, thinking that he is above the law." She tweeted this in April 28-

Evan Hafer 2:20:30 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:20:30 ... of 2020. How crazy is that?

Evan Hafer 2:20:33 Holy shit.

Joe Rogan 2:20:34 She's, like, the, the most prolific of all the conspiracy theorists, the most well-read, the one with the most recall, the one that's the most quoted. I don't know how she's so good at it. We're trying to get her on. I don't know how she's so good-... and what her background is, how she finds all this information, and but she's always way ahead of all this stuff.

Evan Hafer 2:20:59 Yeah, I mean, 2020.

Joe Rogan 2:21:00 That's crazy!

Evan Hafer 2:21:01 That's fucking way ahead of everybody.

Joe Rogan 2:21:02 Crazy.

Evan Hafer 2:21:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:21:05 Hmm, bro. [clears throat] But th- but these files, just what's come out so far, and the fact that they redacted men, these, like, powerful billionaire guys, their names were redacted. Like, there's one of them where there's- where he's talking about pandemic planning.

Evan Hafer 2:21:25 What?

Joe Rogan 2:21:25 Where Jeffrey Epstein is talking about pandemic planning to someone named Bill, whose name is redacted. It's like, why are you redacting the guy's name that you're talking about planning for a pandemic, like, what to do in response to a pandemic? Wh- why is his name retracted-

Evan Hafer 2:21:45 So-

Joe Rogan 2:21:46 or redacted, rather?

Evan Hafer 2:21:47 Wh- when are, when are, when are they supposed to testify?

Joe Rogan 2:21:49 I don't know.

Evan Hafer 2:21:49 When are the Clintons supposed to testify?

Speaker 2:21:51 In the next-

Evan Hafer 2:21:51 Would you say they're gonna-

Speaker 2:21:53 The next-

Evan Hafer 2:21:53 Two weeks?

Speaker 2:21:53 Yeah, I think it's the last two weeks.

Evan Hafer 2:21:54 Do you say the aliens are coming in the next two weeks? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:21:56 Well, I, I think that- [laughing]

Evan Hafer 2:21:57 They're gonna land? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:21:59 I think something's gonna happen.

Evan Hafer 2:22:00 Something's gonna happen. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:22:01 But-

Speaker 2:22:01 Just before that testifying.

Joe Rogan 2:22:02 Yeah.

Evan Hafer 2:22:03 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:22:03 It'll be we bomb Iran, aliens show up-

Evan Hafer 2:22:06 Right, right, right, right

Joe Rogan 2:22:06 ... maybe at the same time. Yeah. Fuck, man.

Evan Hafer 2:22:11 Outside of this, because this, I mean, obviously, this conspiracy, it's not a theory anymore, right? Because you're- they're connecting the networks, they're, like-

Joe Rogan 2:22:19 Yeah

Evan Hafer 2:22:19 ... exposing a lot of this. Like, when you look at your, your total conspiracy catalog of things that you