Joe Rogan Experience #2455 - Donnell Rawlings

Joe Rogan 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!

Speaker 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Trainer by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] Really? Red meat.

Donnell Rawlings 0:13 It's unfortunate. That's just-

Joe Rogan 0:15 In any form?

Donnell Rawlings 0:17 You know, like, I've... I know it's weird. If I eat a burger, it's different if I eat a steak.

Joe Rogan 0:24 Steak is a problem?

Donnell Rawlings 0:25 Yeah, I don't know if my digestive system just, like, you too old to fucking, uh-

Joe Rogan 0:30 How old are you?

Donnell Rawlings 0:30 bust this down. I'm 58.

Joe Rogan 0:32 I- I'm 58, too. I eat mostly meat. I don't think it's age.

Donnell Rawlings 0:37 What is it, then?

Joe Rogan 0:38 Well, what are you eating it with?

Donnell Rawlings 0:41 Uh, Titos. We rolling?

Speaker 0:43 Uh-huh.

Donnell Rawlings 0:43 Titos. Titos and tonic.

Joe Rogan 0:45 Titos Vodka?

Donnell Rawlings 0:46 Well, it can't be that, right? [laughing]

Joe Rogan 0:47 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 0:47 No, T- [laughing] Titos, I'm eating a steak, and I wash it down-

Joe Rogan 0:51 You just eat, [laughing] you eat steak with Titos?

Donnell Rawlings 0:53 I eat a steak, and I wa- and I wash it down with Titos and tonic 'cause it's r- it resembles H2O so much, sometime I get thrown off until I do it.

Joe Rogan 0:59 What? [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:00 Yeah, I think I'm gonna-

Joe Rogan 1:01 Titos and tonic resembles water?

Donnell Rawlings 1:03 The look of it.

Joe Rogan 1:04 The look of it.

Donnell Rawlings 1:05 It's clear.

Joe Rogan 1:05 That's all it matters to you?

Donnell Rawlings 1:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:08 I know at some point I need to change, I need to change my life.

Joe Rogan 1:12 Oh!

Donnell Rawlings 1:12 I'm at the age now that it's like, I look at certain food, and I'm like: "Oh, my God, it looks good, but you know you can't handle that." I think this is when I really, really need to be in love, because I need to be with somebody that understands when I go places and when I wanna pig out, they gotta be like, "He can't eat that. He's gonna be sick-"

Joe Rogan 1:29 Oh, right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:30 "He's gonna sit up-

Joe Rogan 1:30 You need a handler.

Donnell Rawlings 1:31 "He's gonna be throwing up." But I think it's-

Joe Rogan 1:32 You need a female handler.

Donnell Rawlings 1:34 A, a female handler. They, they call it geriatric, uh, like, they... This is what I hear.

Joe Rogan 1:39 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:40 That this is what the streets is saying.

Joe Rogan 1:42 The streets. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:42 Most men get to an age, it's the geriatric shit, when you just smash all the women you wanna do and everything. Now you're gonna have to worry about somebody helping you with your pill diet, helping you with your dietary needs and sort of thing, and they say that's a lot of times when men fall in love, when they need somebody to take them to the golden years, or when it's... When you're about to be out of here, you need somebody to say, "Don't do that. You gotta mash this food up, you gotta chop it up." But I'm having digestive issues sometimes.

Joe Rogan 2:07 With steak, huh?

Donnell Rawlings 2:08 With, it's red meat, I wanna say, and I've... I'm a fan of it.

Joe Rogan 2:11 So you eat... If you eat, like, a bowl of pasta with the Titos, no problem?

Donnell Rawlings 2:16 That's not a problem.

Joe Rogan 2:17 Interesting. Huh.

Donnell Rawlings 2:18 But it's definitely red meat. Red meat, I'm not sleeping.

Joe Rogan 2:20 You should go to one of those doctors that checks people for allergies.

Donnell Rawlings 2:24 Voodoo doctor?

Joe Rogan 2:25 Yeah, you... [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 2:26 [laughing] I don't want one of them doing... Son, like, I had to date an Asian- I mean, I had to d- date a, a Haitian chick. They into voodoo really, really big time.

Joe Rogan 2:34 Oh, yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 2:35 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:35 Oh, yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 2:35 They stab you with pillows and shit, and you wonder why you have pain in your neck.

Joe Rogan 2:38 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 2:40 Is there any particular reason, Joe, and I haven't been here in a while, is there any particular reason why I am doing your show during Black History Month?

Joe Rogan 2:49 No, you asked to come on.

Donnell Rawlings 2:51 [laughing] Uh, but, but you-

Joe Rogan 2:52 You reached out to me.

Donnell Rawlings 2:53 I reached out to you.

Joe Rogan 2:54 I didn't-

Donnell Rawlings 2:54 No, this-

Joe Rogan 2:55 You could've reached out to me in July, I would've said yes.

Donnell Rawlings 2:57 I could've, but this-

Joe Rogan 2:57 You got an open invitation, you know that.

Donnell Rawlings 2:59 I have an open in- invitation, but this is when... I don't know, you... I said, "Can I come to..." You said... This is what you told me. You said, "I have a guest," and then you called back, "I don't know if Jamie said... You know what month this is," right? I don't know if he amped you-

Joe Rogan 3:12 No.

Donnell Rawlings 3:12 And you called me right back.

Joe Rogan 3:13 I moved somebody.

Donnell Rawlings 3:14 Was it-

Joe Rogan 3:14 I moved somebody for you, 'cause I knew you were coming here on a Monday. I had someone booked.

Donnell Rawlings 3:18 Was it a Caucasian person?

Joe Rogan 3:19 I don't know. I don't remember.

Donnell Rawlings 3:21 Jamie?

Speaker 3:21 I don't have a-

Donnell Rawlings 3:22 You know it was a white man or a Black man. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 3:24 No, you know what?

Donnell Rawlings 3:24 Did I get... Did I bump a white person for a Black-

Joe Rogan 3:26 Actually, it might have been Michael Jarre White, 'cause he's here tomorrow.

Donnell Rawlings 3:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:30 So it was probably Michael. I just probably moved him a day.

Donnell Rawlings 3:33 But I appreciate you being accommodating, 'cause I felt like it was time for me to come back. I haven't been here in a while.

Joe Rogan 3:37 You can come on anytime-

Donnell Rawlings 3:39 I really appreciate that

Joe Rogan 3:40 ... whenever you're in town.

Donnell Rawlings 3:40 And I, I hold that to be true.

Joe Rogan 3:41 Come on.

Donnell Rawlings 3:42 I know that's true.

Joe Rogan 3:42 You know I love you.

Donnell Rawlings 3:43 Yeah. I want some of that gum, too, man. I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 3:45 The Neuro gum?

Donnell Rawlings 3:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:46 Do we have any, Jamie?

Speaker 3:47 I have some, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:48 Yeah, that stuff's the shit.

Donnell Rawlings 3:49 I know. Whenever you say something is the shit, it's the shit.

Joe Rogan 3:52 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 3:52 Well, what can I do about my... I can't do anything about my diet. [microphone thuds]

Speaker 3:55 Sorry. Whoops, I hit the mic.

Joe Rogan 3:57 Um, yeah, you can. You just, uh, you know, you should go to a doctor and find out if there's like-

Donnell Rawlings 4:03 I do get-

Joe Rogan 4:03 ... there might be something particularly about you that red meat doesn't agree with you.

Donnell Rawlings 4:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:08 But it might just be what you're eating with the red meat, more than the red meat itself, you know? That's what I would imagine. I would imagine it's not actually red meat. I would imagine it's what you're eating with it, you know?

Donnell Rawlings 4:21 Might be, and I'm gonna check into it, 'cause as they say in the streets, I'm of that big age when you have to be considerate of a whole bunch of things, so-

Joe Rogan 4:29 You sure do

Donnell Rawlings 4:30 ... that's what I have to do. I have to do that.

Joe Rogan 4:31 Do you exercise at all?

Donnell Rawlings 4:33 A little bit. Usually, during sexual intercourse is when I get my-

Joe Rogan 4:36 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 4:36 ... most of my cardio.

Joe Rogan 4:37 Get your push-ups in? [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 4:38 Yeah, [laughing] and it's not as strong. Damn, man, you ever get... I don't know if this apply to everybody. You get to a age where you start looking at your history, and you like: "Damn, 2000 was my best years." Like, right now, I'll just give up.

Joe Rogan 4:54 You give up?

Donnell Rawlings 4:55 I don't put no pressure in it. I give up. I start asking, like, "What's your shoe sizes?" or whatever. I'd rather go shopping than to really try to-

Joe Rogan 5:02 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 5:02 ... pound somebody out for three hours.

Joe Rogan 5:04 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 5:04 I'm at that age now where I have... I call it, um, certain times, like, you gonna get a work- good workout-

Joe Rogan 5:12 I probably shouldn't given you that gum.

Donnell Rawlings 5:13 It's gonna-

Joe Rogan 5:14 That gum's gonna be a real problem on the microphone.

Donnell Rawlings 5:15 Is it... Is it... [mouth open] Oh, okay. I-

Joe Rogan 5:18 People, people are gonna get annoyed with you.

Speaker 5:20 Yeah, as long as you can tell.

Donnell Rawlings 5:20 All right. I don't know what to do. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 5:22 Just chew it a little and spit it out.

Donnell Rawlings 5:24 Okay.

Joe Rogan 5:24 You'll get the effects of it pretty quickly anyway.

Donnell Rawlings 5:27 I'm at the age where my best work is, like, holidays.

Joe Rogan 5:32 Holidays?

Donnell Rawlings 5:32 Like, I'm, I'm an animal.

Joe Rogan 5:34 Why don't you hire a trainer? You got some money.

Donnell Rawlings 5:39 And what are the trainer gonna do that-

Joe Rogan 5:40 Get you in shape.

Donnell Rawlings 5:41 I think I need a therapist before I get a trainer. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 5:45 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 5:45 I mean, you gotta take one step at a time. I gotta get my mind right before I get my body right. Wouldn't you agree?

Joe Rogan 5:49 No, the getting your body right will help get your mind right.

Donnell Rawlings 5:52 I think you... There's some truth to that. I think it, to- I think that you may be right about that.

Joe Rogan 5:56 Oh, 100%. The getting your body right fixes your mind, without a doubt.

Donnell Rawlings 6:01 But I, but I'll... I will say, I'm at my best, I'm at my peak when it's a holiday to celebrate.

Joe Rogan 6:05 'Cause you're rested.

Donnell Rawlings 6:06 I'm rested. It's more incentive. Like, if you want me to really smash good time, you consider it, like, uh, uh, Valentine's Day-... Christmas, uh, uh, Kwanzaa, you can get seven good days. But to expect me to be at my best on just a regular Tuesday or a [chuckles] Wednesday is not gonna happen. I need more setup.

Joe Rogan 6:28 Well, it's also drinking. You like to drink.

Donnell Rawlings 6:30 Why would you say that? I know why you would say that, come on.

Joe Rogan 6:33 Come on, I've seen you.

Donnell Rawlings 6:34 All right.

Joe Rogan 6:34 I've been with you.

Donnell Rawlings 6:35 Okay.

Joe Rogan 6:35 I've drank with you.

Donnell Rawlings 6:36 Okay, then that's a good point. [laughing] All right.

Joe Rogan 6:39 There's cigarettes.

Donnell Rawlings 6:39 You was there.

Joe Rogan 6:40 You brought a pack with you, right?

Donnell Rawlings 6:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:42 There's that. Those, those are not good.

Donnell Rawlings 6:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:44 Um, there's, uh-

Donnell Rawlings 6:46 But you used to smoke

Joe Rogan 6:47 ... lack of exercise.

Donnell Rawlings 6:47 I saw one of your podcasts. I forget how you explained what made you not want to smoke anymore. What was that?

Joe Rogan 6:56 Well, cigarettes are a cognitive enhancer. They are. It's a fact.

Donnell Rawlings 7:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:01 Nicotine is a cognitive enhancer. There's no doubt about it, it's a fact. And it does things to, to your mind. It stimulates your mind in a way that-

Donnell Rawlings 7:10 [clears throat]

Joe Rogan 7:10 ... very few other things do. That's why a lot of intellectuals, a lot of professors use nicotine. A lot of academics use nicotine. A lot of people that rely on their brain use it. A lot of writers use nicotine, and there's different delivery methods that have different effects. Unfortunately, smoking has a very potent, instantaneous effect, uh, and that's why people like it, but it comes with a cost.

Donnell Rawlings 7:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:33 You know, the, the physical health, you know, repercussions of cigarettes are well known.

Donnell Rawlings 7:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:38 Not good. And also, you're, you're smoking Marlboros. There's a... We had a doctor on the other day-

Donnell Rawlings 7:43 Lights

Joe Rogan 7:44 ... that thinks that, um-

Donnell Rawlings 7:45 Marlboro Lights. Don't just-

Joe Rogan 7:46 ... regular cigarettes are not nearly, like, American Spirits are not nearly as bad for you as, uh, these.

Donnell Rawlings 7:52 I understand they have some type of... Uh, the, the American Spirits, I'm not even, like, advocating for what you should, shouldn't smoke, but they're supposed- they say that's supposed to be the most natural, if there's such a thing.

Joe Rogan 8:02 It's just tobacco, I believe. Is that a fact?

Speaker 8:04 Nope.

Joe Rogan 8:05 No? What's in there besides tobacco?

Speaker 8:07 I don't know. I've been trying to... They're, they got... I don't know how this lawsuit ended up, but they got sued for the advertising of saying it's additive-free and all that.

Joe Rogan 8:14 Oh, did they?

Speaker 8:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:16 What, what are the additives?

Speaker 8:17 I've not decided. I've definitely looked the ingredients on it.

Joe Rogan 8:18 Well, let's look into it.

Speaker 8:19 I've tried to look. I mean, there's a big... Here's, like, the website about the lawsuit.

Joe Rogan 8:23 What's the accusation?

Speaker 8:25 That, uh... Here you go. It's on the screen.

Joe Rogan 8:27 Here we go. "Lawsuit questions natural claims. Natural American Spirit cigarettes are made by Santa Fe Natural Tobacco Company and parent company Reynolds American, R.J. Reynolds." They fuck with you. "American Spirits has been sold in the US since 1985, purch- under the original name, Original American Spirit." Do, do-do, do-da, organic. Oh, you got us, you fucks. Um, "Unadulterated tobacco. Suit claims such marketing language has endeared American Spirit cigarettes to a core group of smokers who believe that the natural tobacco in the cigarette makes them a healthier alternative. Despite cigarette sales declining 17% between 2009 and 2014, American Spirit sales have increased 86% over the same period." Huzzah! Uh, "A regulatory filing on the Reynolds American website states, 'American Spirit is the leading super premium cigarette brand that is a top 10 best-selling cigarette brand, priced higher than most other competitive brands, and is differentiated from key competitors through its use of all-natural, additive-free tobacco, including styles made with organic tobacco.' But words like "all-natural" and "additive-free" on American Spirits labeling, the suit says, belies the fact that Santa Fe Reynolds adds ammonia to their cigarettes-

Donnell Rawlings 9:40 Damn!

Joe Rogan 9:40 ... to maximize the amount of nicotine a smoker receives, with the result that American Spirits contain significantly more freebase nicotine than other major cigarette brands." Mm.

Donnell Rawlings 9:50 So you're actually getting high off of cigarettes?

Joe Rogan 9:52 100%. I get high off of them, 'cause I don't smoke them all the time. So I only smoke... If, if I smoke a couple cigarettes a week, it's a lot.

Donnell Rawlings 9:59 And Newport's probably, like, 10 times worse than... Uh, menthol cigarettes are probably 10 times worse to, for your body than-

Joe Rogan 10:06 I was talking to Cat about that. I was like-

Donnell Rawlings 10:08 Cat Williams?

Joe Rogan 10:08 Yeah, I was asking him, like, "Why, why do you like menthols?" And he's like, uh... He was speaking on behalf of the Black community. He said, "W- we like things that are more potent."

Donnell Rawlings 10:19 I believe that that's possibly part of it, but I also believe that back in the day, and this apply... I don't know if I talked about this, it was certain brands that targeted certain communities-

Joe Rogan 10:27 100%

Donnell Rawlings 10:27 ... just for the loyalty of it.

Joe Rogan 10:29 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 10:29 And I think Newports was targeted. I don't know if it was a situation where Newport came out, they were spending more ad money with advertising and everything, 'cause I, I don't know if I shared this story with you, but um, uh, Pepsi was a company that did that, where they targeted the Black community. So I think even though, I understand when you said more potent, but I think it was something that was in our community, whether that was, like, cheaper prices or whatever, and I think it's generation to generation. Like, "You need to do this, because Black people did this because it was cheaper or whatever." I think that that might be the case with Newport.

Joe Rogan 10:58 Probably both.

Donnell Rawlings 10:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:58 Probably both. What is the, the menthol effect? What, what is the, what is the difference in the way a menthol cigarette is?

Donnell Rawlings 11:04 I know when I smoke menthol, I s- I sound like Cat Williams the next day.

Joe Rogan 11:07 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 11:08 They ruin... That's one of the reasons I had to downgrade to, like... Some people think that I started smoking Marlboro Lights 'cause I started dating white women, which is more-

Joe Rogan 11:16 [chuckles]

Donnell Rawlings 11:16 ... appealing. Unless you date a white woman from the Midwest, then she probably smoking Newports and drinking Pepsis and Coca-Cola just like you.

Joe Rogan 11:22 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 11:23 But I think that pa- But I got so many bad habits that I need to change.

Joe Rogan 11:32 Here we go, and our sponsor, our AI sponsor, Perplexity, says: "The menthol effect of cigarettes come from the chemical menthol itself, which is added as a flavoring and a sensory agent to the tobacco. Menthol is naturally found in peppermint and other mint plants. It could also be made synthetically in a lab. Menthol activates cold-sensitive nerve receptors in the mouth, throat, and airways, creating a cooling sensation when you inhale smoke. It's a mild anest- a mild anesthetic, numbing effect that reduces pain and irritation from hot, harsh cigarette smoke, making it feel smoother. Menthol can suppress the cough reflex and dull early warnings or, ea- early warning signs of airway irritation, which make it easier to inhale more deeply and more often."... menthol reduces the perceived harshness of nicotine and smoke. Uh, the minty taste and smell, plus the cooling feel, act as a pleasant sensory cues that many smokers come to associate with satisfaction and craving. Menthol can alter nicotine metabolism and the way nicotine acts on brain receptors, which may increase nicotine's reinforcing addictive effects. In short, the menthol effect is not from nicotine, but from added menthol, which cools and numbs the airways, max- masks the irritation, and can make cigarettes feel smoother and more addictive without making them any safer.

Donnell Rawlings 12:49 So menthol cigarettes appeal to Black people because it's a cool cigarette.

Joe Rogan 12:54 It's cool.

Donnell Rawlings 12:55 That's what-

Joe Rogan 12:55 It's cooling

Donnell Rawlings 12:56 ... now it makes so much sense why the brand Kool cigarette, 'cause it makes you... That makes sense.

Joe Rogan 13:00 Right, that's why they called it Kool, I bet.

Donnell Rawlings 13:02 Damn, what white people do to destroy my community, man.

Joe Rogan 13:05 Destroy everybody.

Donnell Rawlings 13:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:06 They don't give a fuck about anybody.

Speaker 13:08 Kool ain't cold.

Joe Rogan 13:09 "Health ain't wide, body ain't soul, mild ain't bold. Kool ain't cool, Newport is." Oh, 'cause that was like a-

Donnell Rawlings 13:18 The Kool... That makes sense

Joe Rogan 13:19 -a take on Kools, 'cause people used to smoke Kools. Do Kools exist anymore?

Donnell Rawlings 13:23 In jail.

Joe Rogan 13:24 Only in jail?

Donnell Rawlings 13:25 I think that, I think... I don't know what the, [laughing]

Joe Rogan 13:28 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 13:28 -the ratio, the ratios, what, what cigarette gets you more money in a dice game. But whenever I hear people telling war stories, they like, "Man, I got a pack... I got a carton of Kools for a bag of Doritos or something." But the value of a Kool cigarette is, is, is higher in, in prison.

Joe Rogan 13:45 Isn't it crazy that they give you cigarettes in prison? That's crazy. It's like the only drug you can get in prison.

Donnell Rawlings 13:50 Yeah, and those, the-

Joe Rogan 13:51 You can't get alcohol, right?

Donnell Rawlings 13:53 Well, you can get hooch. Well, you can't-

Joe Rogan 13:55 Right

Donnell Rawlings 13:55 ... get alcohol, but they make their own type of-

Joe Rogan 13:56 But you... It's all under the table.

Donnell Rawlings 13:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:59 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 14:00 But I think in prison, the things that hold the most value, I think it's Tang, right? It's that, uh, artificial-flavored drink you do. I think that it's-

Joe Rogan 14:12 Astronaut shit.

Donnell Rawlings 14:13 Yep. Cigarettes, Doritos. I heard honey buns hold their value, and I heard candy bar. But candy bars, you gotta be particular with that, you... 'Cause if you offer... This is what I hear. If you offer a person a certain amount of candy bars, then what I understand is that you're inviting them to have sexual intercourse with you.

Joe Rogan 14:34 Interesting.

Donnell Rawlings 14:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:35 Candy bars.

Donnell Rawlings 14:35 Yeah, like, you... I don't think you wanna-

Joe Rogan 14:37 Do you want some candy bars?

Donnell Rawlings 14:38 I don't-

Joe Rogan 14:38 And that's like code.

Donnell Rawlings 14:39 Yeah, it's like candy bars.

Joe Rogan 14:40 Like Pizzagate-

Donnell Rawlings 14:41 Yeah

Joe Rogan 14:41 ... with pizza.

Donnell Rawlings 14:42 Mr. Goodbar, for his good bar.

Joe Rogan 14:43 Oh, okay.

Donnell Rawlings 14:44 I think it's... This is only... Not that I've had those experiences, Joe, but this is the times that I frequent the streets, which aren't anymore, not too often. These are the stories that they tell.

Joe Rogan 14:54 Interesting.

Donnell Rawlings 14:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:55 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 14:56 And these facts, you don't need them for anything but for barbershop talk, but these are the conversations that I have-

Joe Rogan 15:02 All right

Donnell Rawlings 15:02 ... that I've, I've heard people have.

Joe Rogan 15:04 It's interesting how different brands market to different people, and, uh, I mean, how do they figure it out? Like, what do they work... Like, the, uh, that, that's where it's evil, right? Like, advertising itself, I don't have a problem with, but I d- I... There is something weird about deceptive advertising that's legal, you know?

Donnell Rawlings 15:26 Well, they, they do a, a history on what, uh, people like. I was watching or reading a story about the, uh, people that started Forever 21. I forget what the brand was. It was some Koreans from South Korea. Not to be confused with Kim Jong-un and those people. But they were tailors or something. They started a small boutique, and what they would do was they would have these c- clothing, uh, pieces of cloth, and they would really pay particular attention to what colors people like, um, what was, uh, selling the most, whatever, and that's what they buy. And one of the things that made Forever 21 so popular, 'cause they had really inexp... The, the clothes weren't expensive, but they was turning them over so quick, you know? So people do, do case studies and see what people are attracted to. I know with, um, with Black people, um, you j- you put lemon pepper on anything, [chuckles] it's gonna go out, out the roof. You could do lemon pepper chicken wings, lemon pepper french fries, anything lemon pepper, they're gonna go. I don't know who started the whole lemon pepper craze, but you lemon pepper anything, Black people gonna buy it.

Joe Rogan 16:32 That's interesting, like, how white people are associated with very bland foods. Y- you know, macaroni and cheese, mashed potatoes, mayonnaise.

Donnell Rawlings 16:42 And you know why you're connected with that blandness? 'Cause the way you pronounced it.

Joe Rogan 16:46 Macaroni and cheese?

Donnell Rawlings 16:47 You'd never, ever say m- if you tell somebody, if you say... And you would be able to be invited to the cookout, Joe. You know, people like you.

Joe Rogan 16:57 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 16:57 If, if you say, "Hey, guys, I'm coming to the cookout," right, "and I'm bringing macaroni and cheese," you're gonna get uninvited to the cookout.

Joe Rogan 17:06 What, uh, how should I say it?

Donnell Rawlings 17:07 Mac and cheese.

Joe Rogan 17:08 Mac and cheese.

Donnell Rawlings 17:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:09 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 17:09 You can't say macaroni and cheese.

Joe Rogan 17:11 Oh...

Donnell Rawlings 17:11 Nobody ever does that.

Joe Rogan 17:13 Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 17:13 You would- they would look at you as a spy. You would get invited-

Joe Rogan 17:16 Right

Donnell Rawlings 17:16 ... and be uninvited.

Joe Rogan 17:17 Well, I'm a different type of white person, 'cause I'm Italian, and we're associated with spicy food, very strong flavors.

Donnell Rawlings 17:24 Y- y- yeah, but-

Joe Rogan 17:25 It's a different... Like, Italian people don't like bland food.

Donnell Rawlings 17:28 So you're not gonna say-

Joe Rogan 17:29 They like very spicy-

Donnell Rawlings 17:30 You, you're not gonna say-

Joe Rogan 17:30 ... very flavorful food

Donnell Rawlings 17:31 ... "I'm bringing baked ziti to the barbecue." You'd be like, "I'm bringing ziti," right?

Joe Rogan 17:35 Yeah, I would say baked ziti. Yeah, because there's different kinds of ziti. You know, there's ziti that you bake, and then there's ziti that you just boil and put, you know, marinara sauce on. There's different kinds of ziti.

Donnell Rawlings 17:45 But I will say this: as much as, you know, community make fun of, um, white people and their lack of seasoning, th- that can save your life.

Joe Rogan 17:56 Lack of seasoning can save your life?

Donnell Rawlings 17:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:58 How so?

Donnell Rawlings 17:59 When you think about... You look at somebody, one of the, the most, the country, uh, uh, home-cooked soul food spot, the one ingredient that's in everything that you taste right off the rip is salt. How good is salt for you?

Joe Rogan 18:13 Salt's not bad for you at all. It's all bullshit.

Donnell Rawlings 18:14 Then why do we think salt is bad for us?

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Donnell Rawlings 19:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:29 You need salt to survive. Salt is not the problem. They associate salt with high blood pressure, salt with this, salt with... It's not true. It's bullshit.

Donnell Rawlings 19:38 What type of salt? Is it a different salt?

Joe Rogan 19:39 Is it-

Donnell Rawlings 19:40 Is it like-

Joe Rogan 19:40 No, it's not. Salt's not bad for you. Well, the, first of all, there's iodized salt, which is actually good for you 'cause it contains iodine. They add iodine to it-

Donnell Rawlings 19:48 Mm

Joe Rogan 19:48 ... which is good for you. But salt is not a bad thing. I mean, you shouldn't have too much salt.

Donnell Rawlings 19:54 So why do my-

Joe Rogan 19:54 Look, salt, if you eat... Look, if you eat enough salt, Joe, you could die.

Donnell Rawlings 19:57 Joe, you can't be the person to educate me on this. So all of these years-

Joe Rogan 20:00 It's a, it's a total-

Donnell Rawlings 20:01 ... these people getting their toes chopped off, amputated.

Joe Rogan 20:05 That's not why.

Donnell Rawlings 20:06 It's-

Joe Rogan 20:06 That's not why. If you're getting diabetes, it's usually from sugar.

Donnell Rawlings 20:09 Okay.

Joe Rogan 20:09 You know, there's been a lot of misinformation that's spread because of a- actual scientists that were bribed by the, the sugar industry.

Donnell Rawlings 20:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:19 So the sugar industry, they paid a bunch of Harvard scientists... It was Harvard, right? I believe it was. They didn't even give them a lot of money. Uh, was it the 1950s or 1960s, Jamie? Do you remember? W- So this has all been outed now, but what they did was they tried to associate saturated fat and, and foods with saturated fat with being responsible for heart disease.

Donnell Rawlings 20:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:42 And they did that to try to get the blame off of sugar, 'cause sugar is fucking terrible for you. It's terrible in, in basically every way, especially added sugar.

Donnell Rawlings 20:51 So why are all of these diseases that we speak of are more, more current- uh, happening in the Black community than in the white community?

Joe Rogan 21:00 It's diet. It's diet. It's 100%. It's sugar.

Donnell Rawlings 21:02 Processed food?

Joe Rogan 21:03 It's processed food, it's diet, it's sugar, it's sugary drinks, it's the amount of sugar... Like, if you g- say if you drink, like, a, a l- a one-liter Pepsi, the amount of sugar that is... How, okay, let's find that out. How much sugar is in a one-liter Pepsi? If you drink several of these a day, one of them, I believe, is more sugar than you're ever supposed to have in a day.

Donnell Rawlings 21:24 Pepsi is the one, and that's why, or it could-

Joe Rogan 21:25 Well, it could be Coca-Cola, it could be Pepsi, Mountain Dew-

Donnell Rawlings 21:28 I think it's 100%

Joe Rogan 21:29 ... name your, pick your poison.

Donnell Rawlings 21:30 I think it's 100% Pepsi.

Joe Rogan 21:32 Well, Pepsi is... Uh, I don't know if, does Pepsi have more sugar than Coca-Cola? I don't know.

Speaker 21:37 Uh, to the side.

Joe Rogan 21:37 You know, Coca-Cola is one of the only things that's still flavored with cocaine leaf. Uh, sugar content, 115 to 123 grams in a one-liter bottle. That's a crazy amount of sugar. 25 teaspoons, 35 sugar cubes.

Donnell Rawlings 21:54 Goddamn!

Joe Rogan 21:54 That's 130%, 138%-

Donnell Rawlings 21:57 My toes are tingling and reading

Joe Rogan 21:57 ... of the recommended daily value of sugar. That's, that's where people are getting type 2 diabetes. They're getting it from excess sugar, specifically excess sugar, like, in a liquid form, your body does not know what the fuck to do with that, 'cause nowhere in nature do you get sugar in a liquid form like that. Like, even orange juice.

Donnell Rawlings 22:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 22:17 Like, people think orange juice is good for you. It's not. Like, drinking orange juice, yeah, you're gonna get some vitamin D, but you're also gonna v- uh, vitamin C, rather, but you're also gonna get a gigantic dose of sugar that has no fiber in it-

Donnell Rawlings 22:29 But is it a different-

Joe Rogan 22:30 ... it goes straight to your bloodstream

Donnell Rawlings 22:30 ... type of sugar in fruits and vegetables than what you get off the counter or you get a-

Joe Rogan 22:34 You get fructose rather than high-fructose corn syrup. Uh, you know, look, ca- sugar from fruit is the best sugar for you because it's attached to fiber, and that's, that's a slow-release sugar, like if you eat an apple. And apples aren't bad for you. It's a natural way that your body consumes sugar. But there's not-

Donnell Rawlings 22:51 Apples were bad for Adam.

Joe Rogan 22:53 Uh, I don't even know if it was an apple.

Donnell Rawlings 22:56 It was an apple.

Joe Rogan 22:56 It was a fruit.

Donnell Rawlings 22:57 It was an apple.

Joe Rogan 22:58 It was a fruit from the tree of knowledge, the tree of good-

Donnell Rawlings 23:00 It was an apple.

Joe Rogan 23:01 Uh...

Donnell Rawlings 23:02 It was an apple.

Joe Rogan 23:03 But it wasn't an apple tree. What it- what specifically does the Bible refer to as the fruit that-

Donnell Rawlings 23:08 Adam and Eve. Adam, Eve-

Joe Rogan 23:09 You know the truth?

Donnell Rawlings 23:10 What?

Joe Rogan 23:11 Eve never talked to God. Adam talked to God. Adam told God not to eat the fruit. There's nowhere in the Bible does it say that Adam went and told Eve.

Donnell Rawlings 23:21 This is why we should start not just shutting women down to listening to them. [laughing] It all start, is all biblical.

Joe Rogan 23:29 Genesis does not specifically... specify, rather, what kind of fruit Adam ate, only that it calls it fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Yeah, so it's not necessarily an apple. We call it an apple. Uh, the text never names the species, apple, fig, et cetera. The Hebrew word is peri, a general term meaning fruit, without a botanical detail. Where the apple idea came from, over time, Jewish and Christian interpreters proposed many candidates, including fig, grape, pomegranate, citron, and others. Now, common idea is that an apple developed later in European tradition, helped by wordplay in Latin and Old French, where the words evil and apple or fruit sounded or were spelled similarly. So it's not necessarily an apple.

Donnell Rawlings 24:15 I really don't know what to believe-

Joe Rogan 24:17 Well-

Donnell Rawlings 24:17 ... and I feel like I get so much more information when I come here.

Joe Rogan 24:20 Yeah. [chuckles]

Donnell Rawlings 24:20 I don't know if people understand that.

Joe Rogan 24:22 Well, the crazy thing is that, I mean, I, I've found this out recently, because I've actually been reading the Bible, that the, there's no reference whatsoever to Adam telling Eve, "You're not supposed to eat the fruit from the plant, uh, with, with the knowledge of good and evil."

Donnell Rawlings 24:38 ... I never knew that.

Joe Rogan 24:39 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 24:40 I just know that-

Joe Rogan 24:40 It's just, Adam just-

Donnell Rawlings 24:42 There was a white woman with an apple, and the shit got fucked up after that.

Joe Rogan 24:44 What happened was God created Adam... This is what Genesis says: God created Adam, and then told Adam, "Go and name all the animals." And then when he was done with that, Adam made Eve.

Donnell Rawlings 24:55 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 24:55 But he never said... It never says in the Bible, Adam told Eve, "Do not eat the apple."

Donnell Rawlings 25:02 Who's giving this, us this misinformation?

Joe Rogan 25:05 Well, the problem with the Bible, uh, is, first of all, that it was an oral tradition forever. So it was an oral tradition for a long time before it was ever written down. Then it was written down in a bunch of ancient languages. It was written down in ancient Hebrew. It was written down in Aramaic, Aramaic. And then when you translate ancient Hebrew to... First, they translated it to Latin, and then they translated it to Greek, and all these other- maybe Greek first. I forget which one was first. But either way, the, the translations miss a lot of the, the language. It's a, a very complicated... Ancient Hebrew is a very complicated language, and numbers double as letters in ancient Hebrew. So ancient Hebrew doesn't have numbers. All their words have a numerical value to them.

Donnell Rawlings 25:49 What do you think makes people so connected to the Bible? Is it because of wanting to believe in something, in writing?

Joe Rogan 26:00 Definitely. Definitely wanting to believe in something, and then specifically, if you look at, like, the teachings of Jesus Christ, if you follow them, I think it'll lead to a better life. I think it makes you a better person, makes you a better member of the community. It, it, it, it reinforces community. It's, like, a really good way to live your life. So I think the people that live that way, that actually live that way, they're better examples of human beings, so that makes it reinforced. But it's also people... There's a lot of other religions that people believe in that don't have those aspects to them. People wanna believe things. People wanna believe in things, even if you like... Like Scientology, people deeply believe in Scientology, and, uh, we know it was written by a science fiction author-

Donnell Rawlings 26:42 Right

Joe Rogan 26:42 ... who was a bad science fiction author. L. Ron Hubbard wrote some terrible books. Like, that guy would just bang books out. He never rewrote shit. He- everything was a first draft, just [mouth puff] just clank. He wrote more fiction than any human being that's ever lived, and he also wrote Scientology.

Donnell Rawlings 26:58 And people believe in it. I do believe pe- I think people, like you say, people want to... If your life is fucked up, whatever, they want to be able to say, "Okay, this is my savior. If I believe in this-

Joe Rogan 27:08 Yeah

Donnell Rawlings 27:08 ... it's gonna get me on the right track."

Joe Rogan 27:10 100%.

Donnell Rawlings 27:10 And then with that, with these, like, uh, Drewski just did a, a, a skit that went viral, right? And it was like he was making fun of the megachurches and everything. But these churches, like, they give these people something to believe in, make them feel better, and they're charging people. Do you think that there should be a separation? If I, if I inspire you, if my writings or my speeches inspire you to wanna do something and change your life and b- be, uh, more financially secure, do you think these people are entitled to, like... Okay, almost like agencies. If I get you to work or get you this, should you hit me off? Or the megachurches, is it so wrong for people just to pour all their money into them, or are they giving these people something to believe in? If that's the case, do I supposed to get a piece of that?

Joe Rogan 27:53 I think they're preying on people's need to believe in things.

Donnell Rawlings 27:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:56 And I think they're very predatory, and I think that's why they're flying private jets and driving Rolls-Royces and living in mega mansions on giant ranches, and they're doing it all off of donations of people that are barely getting by. That's a lot of it. You know, I think it's a scam that's legal. I think if we were a just and righteous society, it wouldn't be legal.

Donnell Rawlings 28:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:17 I mean, it's... You're taking advantage of people when they need something to believe in, and you're asking for all their money. Like, I remember I was watching this guy on TV once. Like, televangelists are the worst, and this guy was saying that if you are broke, you should borrow money to donate it to the church, and it will be paid back to you tenfold.

Donnell Rawlings 28:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:40 That God will pay you back tenfold. And then he had all these examples of people that did it, and they would call in and say, "I, I was $1,000 in debt," and this and that, "but I borrowed $100, and I donated it to you, and now all of a sudden, I drive a Rolls-Royce." And it's all horseshit, you know?

Donnell Rawlings 28:54 But those are all desperate, desperate people.

Joe Rogan 28:58 Desperate people.

Donnell Rawlings 28:58 Those are the same people that-

Joe Rogan 28:59 Yeah

Donnell Rawlings 29:00 ... I'm gonna spend $30 on the lottery every day for, like, fucking 50 years and don't know how much time-

Joe Rogan 29:04 That's another scam.

Donnell Rawlings 29:05 Yeah, the lottery.

Joe Rogan 29:05 That's another scam. Not only is that a scam, here's the scam about the lottery: Not only does... Like, say, if everyone pumps money into the lottery. Say, you, you buy $100 worth of tickets, and Jamie buys $100 worth of tickets, and I buy $100, so there's $300 in the lottery.

Donnell Rawlings 29:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:21 There's not even $300 available-

Donnell Rawlings 29:23 To pay you back

Joe Rogan 29:24 ... to win.

Donnell Rawlings 29:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:25 So and then if you win, you don't get all the money. You get the money over a long period of time.

Donnell Rawlings 29:31 But they always give you options, but-

Joe Rogan 29:32 Right, right, right.

Donnell Rawlings 29:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:33 But if you, if you take the second option, it's a significantly... Like, here's a good example of it. Speaking of the Epstein files, his-

Donnell Rawlings 29:40 What do you mean, speaking of the Epstein files?

Joe Rogan 29:41 ... company, Zorro Trust. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 29:44 [laughing] I didn't like that transition. You looked me right in my eyes and said, "Speaking of the Epstein files."

Joe Rogan 29:48 Well, Epstein, we were talking about it before the podcast.

Donnell Rawlings 29:50 No, you were talking about-

Joe Rogan 29:51 Epstein came to see you.

Donnell Rawlings 29:52 No, Epstein did not fucking come to see me.

Joe Rogan 29:54 They came... They loved your show.

Donnell Rawlings 29:55 D- yo-

Joe Rogan 29:55 He was your... He was a number-one fan.

Donnell Rawlings 29:57 First of all-

Joe Rogan 29:58 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 29:59 ... I, I never, I've never-

Joe Rogan 30:00 He came to w- you don't know. Look, he, they came to West Palm Improv because you're a famous comedian, and you were playing in the town where he lived.

Donnell Rawlings 30:09 So what are you saying?

Joe Rogan 30:09 Nothing. But what I'm saying is that-

Donnell Rawlings 30:11 I'm on... I'm actually-

Joe Rogan 30:12 What I'm saying is Epstein won the lottery. His company, Zorro Trust, won an $80 million lottery, and then they paid... They, they took the payoff, and the payoff was only $30 million.

Donnell Rawlings 30:24 What you mean $80 million from a ticket, or you mean in, with, in comp- corporation? What do you mean when you say won eight-

Joe Rogan 30:28 They... His company bought a ticket for the lottery.

Donnell Rawlings 30:31 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 30:31 The... Yes, Zorro Trust, which is his company. They won the lottery, which is very suspicious. Not only that, he won the lottery right after he was arrested and went to jail for fucking kids-

Donnell Rawlings 30:41 Right

Joe Rogan 30:41 ... or having sex or whatever he, whatever he was arrested for, sexual hand jobs, whatever it was. So after-

Donnell Rawlings 30:47 There's nothing wrong with a sexual hand job.

Joe Rogan 30:48 With underage... No, but when they're underage girls, probably not good.

Donnell Rawlings 30:50 Oh, I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 30:51 So then when he went, um, and got the lottery money, the company took the payoff.... the payoff out of an $80 million payment, the $80 million jackpot, was only 30 million. So if you want the money, you take 30.

Donnell Rawlings 31:06 That's after, before-

Joe Rogan 31:06 So not only do they take 50 out of the 80, but then you think about how many people spent money buying lottery tickets.

Donnell Rawlings 31:13 100%.

Joe Rogan 31:13 It's way more than 80 million.

Donnell Rawlings 31:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:16 So they make money off of that, and then they make money off of the fact that you want the payoff instead of the, you know, the over 30 years.

Donnell Rawlings 31:23 So they never could... It doesn't matter what the jackpot becomes, they never can lose.

Joe Rogan 31:27 They, they can't lose-

Donnell Rawlings 31:28 'Cause they're stealing-

Joe Rogan 31:29 ... stealing money from people that are desperate.

Donnell Rawlings 31:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:30 It's, it's legalized gambling where the house always wins.

Donnell Rawlings 31:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 31:35 Like, let's find that out. Like, uh, let's say, let's find, uh, an average jackpot of Mega Bucks and find out how much money actually goes into it, how much, how much money people spend versus how much money the payout is.

Donnell Rawlings 31:51 So when this, the, the, uh... all lottos are state-regulated, right? Right?

Joe Rogan 31:57 I don't know. I don't know who regulates them.

Donnell Rawlings 31:58 Okay, so they get... Say, they get $100 million-

Joe Rogan 32:04 [clears throat]

Donnell Rawlings 32:04 ... from people trying to win a billion dollars. It's 'cause the state regulate, do they, do they have to pay taxes to the government for the money they collect?

Joe Rogan 32:12 The lotto?

Donnell Rawlings 32:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:13 No, that's the state, or it's the-

Donnell Rawlings 32:14 Oh, that's the government

Joe Rogan 32:15 ... the government owns it, so it's a, it's a, whatever the... Not only that, you pay taxes on it. So say if you get that-

Donnell Rawlings 32:21 You, the winner, pays taxes.

Joe Rogan 32:21 Yes!

Donnell Rawlings 32:22 Yeah, yeah, of course.

Joe Rogan 32:22 So say if you take that $30 million payout, you don't even get 30 million. Then you have to pay taxes on that 30 million, so they get money from that, too. So they can't fucking lose.

Donnell Rawlings 32:31 But for a person that's never seen but, but barely seen $1,000 anywhere, anything with million on it, they're gonna be excited about it and take it before they know it.

Joe Rogan 32:39 Exactly. Exactly. And over time, most people are not gonna win, so most people are dumping money into it, and-

Donnell Rawlings 32:45 There was a story of a, a young lady, I don't know exactly who it was. I think she won some type of lottery where they, but gave her two options. She would get, I think it was like, uh, a payout of like 2 or 3 million right up front, or they'd give her, I think it was like $20,000 every month for as long as she lived.

Joe Rogan 33:05 Yeah, that's how they do it.

Donnell Rawlings 33:06 And she did dec- well, people think that it's kind of crazy, but if you consider the fact that she was probably 20, 21, her life expectancy probably... She was white, so she'd probably live to 132. [laughing] You know what I'm saying? She looked like... I, that was a smart... A lot of people would not understand that. That was a smart thing. But I, I just, I-

Joe Rogan 33:22 I don't think it's for the rest of your life. I think it's until it reaches that number. I don't think they're gonna give you money for the rest of your life.

Donnell Rawlings 33:29 Well, maybe I was reading the headline-

Joe Rogan 33:31 Maybe it's a different kind of lottery that I'm not aware of.

Donnell Rawlings 33:33 Maybe, I think it was something as long as she lives.

Joe Rogan 33:36 That sounds crazy.

Donnell Rawlings 33:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:37 All right, here it is: "Typical Mega Millions jackpot," Ron, "total ticket revenue is usually several times the advertised jackpot, but there's no single fixed average because sales vary enormously with the jackpot size. Still, you can get a good ballpark. So around 50% of ticket revenue goes into the overall prize pool." So the government makes 50% right off the bat.

Donnell Rawlings 33:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:58 So if it's a $100 million payout, they already made $100 million. So that's $200 million is what they made, they throw in $100 million for everybody. "Of that prize pool, roughly two-thirds to three-quarters is allocated to the jackpot, with the rest funding lower-tier prizes." So that means even if there's $200 million, out of the $100 million, only two-thirds of it goes into the, the big jackpot. Um, and that means the jackpot is typically in the order of one-third of total ticket sales that run, and then out of that one-third, so say if it's $100 million, or with the Epstein case, it was $80 million, he took the payout, which was $30 million, so they make 50 on top of that, and then on top of that, you pay taxes on that 30. It's a crazy scheme.

Donnell Rawlings 34:46 What do they do with the money?

Joe Rogan 34:47 Whatever the fuck they want.

Donnell Rawlings 34:49 I think they probably-

Joe Rogan 34:50 Who can tell you?

Donnell Rawlings 34:50 I think that in certain neighborhoods, I think they probably pump a certain amount of winning tickets into a neighborhood just to get you addicted to keep going in there and spend your money.

Joe Rogan 34:59 Well, it's supposed to be random. You know, I don't know how much oversight... Look, if a guy like Jeffrey Epstein can win, I don't know how much oversight is. I know, um, back in Boston, when I lived there, Whitey Bulger won... See if this is true, I think he won the lotto twice, which is crazy.

Donnell Rawlings 35:18 Whitey Bulger, who is that? That sound like an old street fighter.

Joe Rogan 35:19 Whitey Bulger was a South Boston mob boss, uh, in the 1980s when I lived there, the 1980s and '90s.

Donnell Rawlings 35:29 A mob, a mob boss?

Joe Rogan 35:31 Yeah, he was a dangerous, dangerous guy. He was the guy that that movie that Leonardo DiCaprio starred in with Jack Nicholson. What was that movie, Jamie? Remember that movie that was based on Whitey Bulger? The Departed?

Speaker 35:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah, The Departed, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:47 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 35:47 Okay.

Joe Rogan 35:47 That was based on Whitey Bulger.

Donnell Rawlings 35:49 He was a gangster?

Joe Rogan 35:50 Oh, yeah, terrifying gangster, yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 35:53 What was his demise?

Joe Rogan 35:55 He was actually a fucking FBI informant. Not only was he a gangster, he was working with the FBI, and they were letting him get away with shit because he was throwing other people under the bus.

Donnell Rawlings 36:05 I think there's a different... I mean-

Joe Rogan 36:07 They wound up catching him in Santa Monica.

Donnell Rawlings 36:09 Well, I've felt that there's-

Joe Rogan 36:11 Hunting Whitey, about that Whitey Bulger won the Mass Millions lottery, about that time. Yeah. Yeah, he won the [chuckles] fucking lottery, man. So, uh, this is what it says here. What does it say?

Speaker 36:27 I think it was more of a scheme than he actually won the... But it's how he was taking money. It's probably a way to, like, launder money.

Joe Rogan 36:33 Yeah. Oh, 100%, it's a way to launder money. So the way it would work was, like, say if you lived in the community and you won the lottery ticket, maybe they would give you money for your lottery ticket, and then he would get it, and that way it would show that this is where he got his income from.

Donnell Rawlings 36:48 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 36:48 Like, these guys would all own businesses-

Donnell Rawlings 36:51 Right

Joe Rogan 36:51 ... but the reason why they would own businesses is so they could show why they drive a Cadillac, why they have a mansion, why they have this, because they have legitimate businesses. But really, these businesses were scams.

Donnell Rawlings 37:01 My father convinced my family that he was a real estate agent for years, [chuckles] and come to find out he was a heroin kingpin in DC for years.

Joe Rogan 37:07 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 37:08 All we needed was an excuse. He's selling real estate all right.

Joe Rogan 37:11 That's hilarious.... um, so he ordered the real winner to sign the ticket over, with Whitey and two associates paying $2.3 million in cash for 50% of the winnings. Bulger, Bulger himself paid Michael Linskey 700,000, although Linskey lost money in the deal, he really had no choice. It came down to selling the ticket or risking his life. Yeah, so that's how it usually wills, works.

Donnell Rawlings 37:36 So he was a snitch?

Joe Rogan 37:38 Whitey was a snitch, yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 37:40 Whitey Bulger-

Joe Rogan 37:40 He was a snitch, and he got caught in Santa Monica. He was-

Donnell Rawlings 37:42 Snitch or whistleblower? There is a difference.

Joe Rogan 37:44 No, he was a snitch.

Donnell Rawlings 37:45 Whistleblowers are people that snitch on people in higher profile positions, like corporate America. But what I'm finding out-

Joe Rogan 37:50 No, he wasn't a whistleblower. He was an actual-

Donnell Rawlings 37:52 He was a snitch

Joe Rogan 37:53 ... snitch, because he was turning other people in.

Donnell Rawlings 37:55 Do you-

Joe Rogan 37:55 But he was a kingpin.

Donnell Rawlings 37:56 Is this true? And I don't wanna make everything about race. Is that phrase, "Snitches get stitches," more prevalent in the white community or the Black community, or it's across the board?

Joe Rogan 38:07 I think it's across the board, isn't it? Like, uh, like, the Black community is famous for keeping their mouth shut when someone gets shot or when someone does something, like when cops come and question people-

Donnell Rawlings 38:16 I don't know if that's the truth anymore, because what I'm-

Joe Rogan 38:18 Not anymore, but that was the thing with the mafia, too.

Donnell Rawlings 38:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:20 The mob would never rat out.

Donnell Rawlings 38:21 It, it-

Joe Rogan 38:21 Guys would just go to jail

Donnell Rawlings 38:22 ... it's interesting now because now I see, like, especially in my community, so many people, like, "Rat, I got the paperwork and everything," and now it feels like, like that model of being loyal is dead. Like, people now, they, they get in court with shit, and the minute they get caught, they snitch on everybody.

Joe Rogan 38:43 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 38:44 And there's no repercussions when they come home.

Joe Rogan 38:47 There are-

Donnell Rawlings 38:47 There's no repercussions. I don't see that as much. I see so many people that are like... They saying whatever the fuck they wanna do, whatever, and they still out here just living their lives normal, like ain't nothing fucking happened.

Joe Rogan 38:58 Well, with the mob, it was always like, if you ratted on the mob, you were a dead man. You were a dead man, your family was probably dead. They'd burn your house down, and, and people kept their mouth shut because of that. And so guys would go to jail all the time and never open their mouth, and they would be rewarded when they would get out.

Donnell Rawlings 39:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:14 And they'd have a party for them, celebrate. That's in Goodfellas, you kept your mouth shut.

Donnell Rawlings 39:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:18 You never said nothing. That was the whole thing.

Donnell Rawlings 39:21 But the whole thing... I used to live by-

Joe Rogan 39:22 That changed, though, like, with John Gotti. Like, the, the government-

Donnell Rawlings 39:26 Did he snitch? No-

Joe Rogan 39:27 Well-

Donnell Rawlings 39:27 Sammy the Bull

Joe Rogan 39:28 ... Sammy the Bull-

Donnell Rawlings 39:29 Snitched.

Joe Rogan 39:29 And then, and it wasn't just them. Like, there was... Everyone was snitching on everybody. It's like they got these guys, and, you know, we had Donnie Brasco in, in the studio.

Donnell Rawlings 39:38 From, from, um, what, um, from the Bronx Tale?

Joe Rogan 39:40 That Johnny Depp movie. It was called Donnie Brasco.

Donnell Rawlings 39:43 Okay.

Joe Rogan 39:44 He... What was his name?

Donnell Rawlings 39:45 Why, why am I confused that with, um-

Joe Rogan 39:46 What's his real... John DeBra- Donnie Brasco's real name?

39:50 Joe, uh-

Donnell Rawlings 39:51 I'm not confused with... Bronx Tale, that's not Bronx Tale.

Joe Rogan 39:53 Joe Pistone.

39:54 Joe Pistone.

Donnell Rawlings 39:55 That's got nothing to do with Bronx Tale, right?

Joe Rogan 39:56 No, different story.

Donnell Rawlings 39:57 Okay.

Joe Rogan 39:57 That's a different story. Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 40:00 But-

Joe Rogan 40:00 Um, so Donnie Brasco was the guy who was... He was an agent, and he pretended to be a mob guy, and he got in with the mob and was with them for, like, seven years, did all kinds of shit with the mob and then sold everybody out, and they all went under.

Donnell Rawlings 40:15 Yeah, I don't know. I'm just so... The, this, the culture, everything is... There used to be a phrase, "Snitches get stitches." Now, I don't know if this just everywhere, but everywhere I go, it's like the most interesting thing now that's selling on any platform, especially social media, is beef. And I don't understand why people gravitate toward negativity more than anything.

Joe Rogan 40:36 That's normal.

Donnell Rawlings 40:37 Why? Well, but, but you know what? It's interesting. Your platform is not known for that.

Joe Rogan 40:42 No.

Donnell Rawlings 40:42 Your platform... But I go to these other platforms, and I don't know, I think these guys, the people, they just sit back and it's like, "Okay, what can I say to make people upset, get them riled up, and then I take advantage of the engagement that they do?"

Joe Rogan 40:59 They're in a different game than me, all right? Their game is trying to get engagement.

Donnell Rawlings 41:03 But-

Joe Rogan 41:03 My game is talking to people that are interesting.

Donnell Rawlings 41:05 But then that d- don't, doesn't that become... I don't wanna be triggering anything, but doesn't that become destructive-

Joe Rogan 41:11 100%

Donnell Rawlings 41:11 ... after a while?

Joe Rogan 41:12 100%.

Donnell Rawlings 41:13 And do you, have you noticed, ch- especially, I'll put it like this, especially with comedians, with podcasts. Every... There used to be a time where, like you say, a person would go on a podcast because it was interesting, they told funny stories-

Joe Rogan 41:28 Right

Donnell Rawlings 41:28 ... or they was good at their craft or whatever. But now it feels like all these platforms, and I don't know if that's just in, in my community... When I say that, Black people, it's like the only way I can find myself interesting, if I talk shit about people.

Joe Rogan 41:42 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 41:42 And motherfuckers are going away from being, being funny when you get interviewed. Like, every fucking podcast I turn on now, it's somebody, "I'm gonna expose this person. I'm gonna tell this about what you didn't know." And the one thing they're not doing, especially as a stand-up comedian, motherfuckers don't give a fuck about being funny no more. Are those days over?

Joe Rogan 42:05 But, no. No, no, no. Those people that do that are almost always not very talented, almost always. The only exception to that-

Donnell Rawlings 42:13 So who they fooling?

Joe Rogan 42:14 The only exception to that is Cat. And I think what Cat was doing was different, 'cause what Cat was doing was exposing what he thought was snakes and liars.

Donnell Rawlings 42:22 Okay, are you-

Joe Rogan 42:23 It's a different thing.

Donnell Rawlings 42:24 Okay, okay. I... Okay.

Joe Rogan 42:28 Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 42:28 This is my question.

Joe Rogan 42:29 Okay, okay.

Donnell Rawlings 42:30 This is my question, okay?

Joe Rogan 42:32 Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 42:32 This is my question, and people can take it-

Joe Rogan 42:34 Okay. [laughs] Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 42:36 I wanna say this.

Joe Rogan 42:37 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 42:37 This is what I'm saying, Joe.

Joe Rogan 42:38 What are you saying?

Donnell Rawlings 42:39 I'm coming from this place. I'm like this, no disrespect or whatever to Cat, but, like, who asked you?

Joe Rogan 42:47 Uh-

Donnell Rawlings 42:47 Like, who asked-

Joe Rogan 42:47 ... Shannon Sharpe did-

Donnell Rawlings 42:48 Sha- so-

Joe Rogan 42:49 ... when he did that podcast.

Donnell Rawlings 42:51 Shannon Sharpe might have asked [chuckles] one question.

Joe Rogan 42:53 Shannon, but Shannon Sharpe likes that. Like-

Donnell Rawlings 42:55 What?

Joe Rogan 42:55 ... that, in his podcast-

Donnell Rawlings 42:56 Just relationship, right?

Joe Rogan 42:57 ... he likes a lot of that.

Donnell Rawlings 42:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:58 His, his people, they find questions. He's got a sheet of paper.

Donnell Rawlings 43:01 But Joe, what do you do with those-

Joe Rogan 43:02 He's got questions of people who have beef.

Donnell Rawlings 43:03 Joe, what do you do with those truths? What do you do with talking about... I watched, I know this is a horrible impression.

Joe Rogan 43:11 [chuckles]

Donnell Rawlings 43:12 I sat there in the parking lot, and I watched people go up into Diddy's house, and they came down, and they were standing up. I'm trying to figure out, what the fuck do you get out of that?... what, what, what is the result of that? You expose these people to say what? Hollywood is never going to fucking change. You know what changes? Like, what you do. I left fucking Hollywood. Hollywood's not gonna change, and I'm not saying... I went to a Diddy party. First off, I was never invited. [laughs] There's a chance I would accept an invitation, with rules, you know?

Joe Rogan 43:47 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 43:47 But if- what is the purpose of exposing something that you-

Joe Rogan 43:51 Well, I don't think most people are exposing. What most people are doing when they're being negative is they are jealous, and they are below the person they're talking shit about. Like, whenever I see someone that's talking shit about a high-level-

Donnell Rawlings 44:04 So you don't think Katt was jealous about... You don't thi- now, you say that, and you used Katt Williams as an example. So when you said they're jealous-

Joe Rogan 44:11 Well, Katt, first of all, when Katt did it, it was very funny, which is different.

Donnell Rawlings 44:13 It was very funny.

Joe Rogan 44:15 Katt's a very funny guy.

Donnell Rawlings 44:16 Very, very funny.

Joe Rogan 44:16 And when he was doing it, I think he was also being very funny while he was doing it, which is different.

Donnell Rawlings 44:21 Well, you have to put a LOL on the end of it, 'cause people might not understand [laughs] his humor. 'Cause p- this is what- this is the connection people have. They... This is what they... The, the connection they have with Katt, it's like, they, this is what they say, when they ride with him, they say, "Where is the lie? Where is the lie?" and all this stuff. But I'm just trying to understand, what is the purpose of exposing all this stuff? What do we do with this information? What do we do with the information that Diddy like to have fucking freak parties with baby oils? What the fuck do we do with all this information?

Joe Rogan 44:49 Well, Diddy's in jail right now, so they did that with the information.

Donnell Rawlings 44:52 Well, Diddy's in jail for doing something that a lot of people... [laughs] I... Let me tell you something, Joe.

Joe Rogan 44:58 Tell me something.

Donnell Rawlings 45:00 I was riding with Diddy. For one, I like the music he did and everything. I don't know Diddy like that. But when I f- first read the definition of sex trafficking, right?

Joe Rogan 45:13 Uh-huh.

Donnell Rawlings 45:14 I'm sure you're a versed person, you're smart.

Joe Rogan 45:15 Uh-huh.

Donnell Rawlings 45:16 The definition of sex trafficking, "To transport a woman across state lines with the intent to have sexual intercourse with her."

Joe Rogan 45:24 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 45:25 When I heard that-

Joe Rogan 45:25 When you're paying them, it's trafficking is-

Donnell Rawlings 45:29 No, that's not... Actually, w- my d- I-

Joe Rogan 45:31 Really?

Donnell Rawlings 45:32 This is my ju- Jamie, you can pull this up.

Joe Rogan 45:34 Wait a minute, so if you are dating a girl, and she lives in Minnesota-

Donnell Rawlings 45:37 And you say, "Come"-

Joe Rogan 45:38 ... and you live in California-

Donnell Rawlings 45:39 And I say-

Joe Rogan 45:39 ... and you fly her to California-

Donnell Rawlings 45:41 And I'm thinking about fu-

Joe Rogan 45:41 ... that's sex trafficking?

Donnell Rawlings 45:42 And I'm thinking about-

Joe Rogan 45:44 I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true at all.

Donnell Rawlings 45:46 I mean, you're fact-

Joe Rogan 45:46 I think that's just-

Donnell Rawlings 45:47 You're-

Joe Rogan 45:47 ... flying a girl in, that you have a relationship with.

Donnell Rawlings 45:49 Fly. In the streets, they call it flew'd out. Flew'd out.

Joe Rogan 45:51 Yeah, but that's normal. Everybody does that.

Donnell Rawlings 45:53 But that's the definition.

Speaker 45:54 It's commercial sex act-

Joe Rogan 45:56 Yeah, commercial

Speaker 45:56 ... commercial.

Joe Rogan 45:57 Commercial sex act. I- i- induced by force, fraud, or coercion. Ha, well, coercion's crazy, 'cause coercion is like, "Please, I'll buy you a bag." That's sex trafficking.

Donnell Rawlings 46:08 That's a date.

Joe Rogan 46:08 So, like, if a girl... Right, if you're, if you- if there's a girl, she's like, "What are you gonna do for me?" Like, "You know those shoes you want? I got those shoes for you. Let's go shopping." Like, that's kind of sex trafficking, if that's co- co- coercion for money.

Donnell Rawlings 46:20 Eh.

Joe Rogan 46:20 Like, if a girl's thinking about coming out to visit you, and then you go, "Listen, listen, listen. What are you looking for? What do you, what do you wanna buy? I got money. Come on, let's go shopping." That kind of would fall into that category.

Donnell Rawlings 46:33 But look-

Joe Rogan 46:33 But we're getting off topic. Let's go back to the topic originally at hand. The reason why these comedians are neg-

Donnell Rawlings 46:39 No, I'm curious about this. I need to know the tr-

Joe Rogan 46:39 No, no, no, you're not gonna get in trouble for sex trafficking.

Donnell Rawlings 46:42 All right.

Joe Rogan 46:42 Listen, s- that's all horseshit.

Donnell Rawlings 46:43 All right.

Joe Rogan 46:44 But the reason why these comedians are doing it is because they're never bigger than the comedians they're shitting on. Never.

Donnell Rawlings 46:52 1,000%.

Joe Rogan 46:53 1,000%.

Donnell Rawlings 46:53 And you know what it is, Joe?

Joe Rogan 46:55 And they're never good.

Donnell Rawlings 46:56 They... You know what it is, too, Joe? Is that deep down inside, they want to be that person.

Joe Rogan 47:03 100%.

Donnell Rawlings 47:03 And I tell you what, this is-

Joe Rogan 47:05 Or they wanna be in the position that person's in, is a better way of putting it.

Donnell Rawlings 47:07 And I, I, I'll use this- I'll tell you this story. I realize I... Not, not to say names, but you, it's so many people that could be guilt- guilty of it, and this is the thing that I hear-

Joe Rogan 47:16 [laughs]

Donnell Rawlings 47:16 ... that understands me, that, that, that, that, that disturbs me, is that, you know, the, uh, a lot of these people that bitch the most, they, at some point in their career, they were favored by Hollywood.

Joe Rogan 47:30 Yes.

Donnell Rawlings 47:30 At some point in their career, they had these opportunities. At some point in their career, guess what? They had the agencies, they had the agents, and something happened in their career where they fell out of favor for whatever you wanna call that is, whatever you wanna call that, for whatever. Maybe something they did, agents didn't like, like them too much. And now, everything that they rode on, everything they wanted to do, now it's, "Oh, that's fucked up, and the only way you get this opportunity-

Joe Rogan 47:56 Uh-huh

Donnell Rawlings 47:56 ... 'cause it has to be sexual favors," and all that type of shit.

Joe Rogan 47:59 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 47:59 And where do the fuck do you draw that line?

Joe Rogan 48:00 But it's not even sexual favors.

Donnell Rawlings 48:02 And I'll tell you like this. I'll tell you like this-

Joe Rogan 48:02 It's like they criticize the work of the other person. "That person ain't shit. That person sucks."

Donnell Rawlings 48:06 Can I get a... Can I, can I... Yo, there's... Here's the thing, there was... [sighs]

Joe Rogan 48:12 Come on, you, you get this all the time because you ride with Dave, and Dave's number one, right?

Donnell Rawlings 48:16 This is what I...

Joe Rogan 48:17 So you, you always get-

Donnell Rawlings 48:18 This is what I... Listen

Joe Rogan 48:18 ... you always get this label-

Donnell Rawlings 48:19 This is why, fucking-

Joe Rogan 48:19 ... even though you're a great comic, you get this label of being a coattail rider.

Donnell Rawlings 48:23 Right. And guess what? Everybody don't want... This is what I try to explain to people, Joe. Everybody does not have to be Batman.

Joe Rogan 48:33 [laughs]

Donnell Rawlings 48:34 I don't have a problem with being Robin.

Joe Rogan 48:37 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 48:37 You know why? 'Cause Robin got the same amount of screen time as Batman. And, and the reason why I say... This is what I get, and I'm, I'm telling you this, Joe, I don't know if this gum is kicking in.

Joe Rogan 48:47 Eh. [laughs]

Donnell Rawlings 48:49 This is what... This is what g- this is what fucks [laughs] me up, Joe. This is what fucks me up.

Joe Rogan 48:53 Oh! [laughs]

Donnell Rawlings 48:53 And I'll tell you example. I'm gonna give you example.

Joe Rogan 48:55 Don't give me examples.

Donnell Rawlings 48:56 No, I'm gonna tell you.

Joe Rogan 48:57 Are you pulling out your phone?

Donnell Rawlings 48:58 And you, I'm gonna tell you why. Because your fucking shirt is fucking triggering me right now.

Joe Rogan 49:02 Kill Tony?

Donnell Rawlings 49:03 Uh, no, I want to.

Joe Rogan 49:04 You mean the greatest, greatest comedy show of all time-

Donnell Rawlings 49:06 And you know what?

Joe Rogan 49:07 ... in the history of the known universe?

Donnell Rawlings 49:07 I know that, but there's a lot of lies involved.

Joe Rogan 49:10 [laughs]

Donnell Rawlings 49:10 Okay, listen, this is, this is what they say. This is what they say.

Joe Rogan 49:14 Don't pay attention to what they say.

Donnell Rawlings 49:16 No, listen! No, listen.

Joe Rogan 49:16 Why are you doing that?

Donnell Rawlings 49:17 Yo, you told me-

Joe Rogan 49:18 What are you playing?

Donnell Rawlings 49:18 ... things that the Kill Tony audience say about me.

Speaker 49:21 Um, Chappelle's butt plug is acting up again.

Donnell Rawlings 49:24 [laughing] Yo, I gotta deal with this shit! What is so fuck- no.

Joe Rogan 49:29 Well, you gotta stop paying attention to it.

Donnell Rawlings 49:31 It's so hard.

Joe Rogan 49:32 Do you know what it- would happen to me if I paid attention to all the haters that I have?

Donnell Rawlings 49:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:36 I would go crazy.

Donnell Rawlings 49:37 You would. Do you think that you paid attention to those haters... Now, you're in a position right now, you have so many reasons to say, "Fuck 'em." Do you feel like you had that, that same belief when you was first starting this? Did you, did you engage them then?

Joe Rogan 49:49 Well, I engaged online with a lot of people in the early days, 'cause I didn't understand what you're doing is you're engaging with people that don't have happy lives.

Donnell Rawlings 49:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:00 And they're negative. And there's some criticisms that are good for you, because some criticisms make you evaluate what you're doing and say, "Okay, well, what I need to do is be undeniable, so these critics mean nothing to me." Because you can't... The p- I'm killing, the audience loves me, I'm selling out everywhere, I'm doing great on stage. That- you can't pay attention.

Donnell Rawlings 50:19 You know what? B- you know what? I will say this, I hear you, Joe. I tried that with them motherfuckers on your shirt.

Joe Rogan 50:25 You had a bad show.

Donnell Rawlings 50:26 I tried that-

Joe Rogan 50:26 You had one bad show.

Donnell Rawlings 50:26 I never had-

Joe Rogan 50:27 You had a bad show.

Donnell Rawlings 50:29 Y-

Joe Rogan 50:29 You had a bad show.

Donnell Rawlings 50:29 Please don't do this to me, all right?

Joe Rogan 50:31 You did.

Donnell Rawlings 50:31 You have a bad-

Joe Rogan 50:31 You had that one bad show where you went back and forth-

Donnell Rawlings 50:33 I did not fucking have a bad-

Joe Rogan 50:34 You walked... Did you walk off the show?

50:37 Sit, man. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 50:38 [laughing]

Joe Rogan 50:39 Get sit the fuck down.

50:40 Sit. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 50:40 I did not fucking walk off the show.

Joe Rogan 50:43 Do you want me to play it back?

Donnell Rawlings 50:44 I, I... [clears throat] Please don't do this.

Joe Rogan 50:47 You were a little drunk.

Donnell Rawlings 50:48 Joe, please don't do this.

Joe Rogan 50:48 Who was the comic? Who was the comic?

Donnell Rawlings 50:50 I don't know his name.

Joe Rogan 50:52 You know who it is? No.

Donnell Rawlings 50:53 We don't need to bring his name-

Joe Rogan 50:54 He's funny. Whoever the dude is, he's funny.

Donnell Rawlings 50:55 Yo, yo, see, now you're doing this-

Joe Rogan 50:56 And he's good.

Donnell Rawlings 50:56 You, you know what you're doing? You're do- you're being a provocateur right now.

Joe Rogan 51:01 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 51:01 You're provoking me, 'cause we broke this shit down-

Joe Rogan 51:04 Ah!

Donnell Rawlings 51:04 ... and I don't wanna keep going through this.

Joe Rogan 51:05 I didn't think of this when I was wearing this shirt.

Donnell Rawlings 51:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:07 I'll change the shirt.

Donnell Rawlings 51:08 No, it's okay.

Joe Rogan 51:09 I'm gonna put something over.

Donnell Rawlings 51:10 Put another shirt.

Joe Rogan 51:10 I'll wear a Benny the Jet shirt.

Donnell Rawlings 51:11 Let's, let's, let's break it down, Joe.

Joe Rogan 51:14 Oh, we don't have to.

Donnell Rawlings 51:15 If... We have to, you started this shit. All right? Thank you.

Joe Rogan 51:19 I'm gonna change-

Donnell Rawlings 51:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 51:19 ... my shirt right now.

Donnell Rawlings 51:20 Yeah. It's like, I didn't have a bad show.

Joe Rogan 51:23 You definitely didn't have a great show, right? When you walk off, it's not good. Jesus Christ, God, Tony. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 51:34 [laughing] I... I'm... Man, I feel like Carrie, "They're all gonna laugh at me! They're gonna laugh at me." It wasn't... This for the last fucking time, Joe. For the last fucking time, and this is what's so fucking evil about this situation that some people call a bad show. I never wanted to do the show.

Joe Rogan 51:57 But you came back on and you had a good show, right?

Donnell Rawlings 52:00 I wanna go back. Let's rewind, all right? And this is... You were a part of it.

Joe Rogan 52:04 Hey, look, I changed my shirt. No more triggers.

Donnell Rawlings 52:07 Yeah, I appreciate that. [exhales]

Joe Rogan 52:08 Shout out to Benny the Jet.

Donnell Rawlings 52:09 Ah, okay, I feel a lot better now. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 52:11 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 52:11 So... Ah, boy, I need another piece of gum.

Joe Rogan 52:13 Ah.

Donnell Rawlings 52:14 I'm gonna say this, say what it's worth. First off, I did not want... The first time I did it here in Austin-

Joe Rogan 52:22 Right

Donnell Rawlings 52:22 ... I didn't want to do the show.

Joe Rogan 52:24 Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 52:24 And the reason why I didn't wanna do the show, Joe... Now you're not even paying attention to me.

Joe Rogan 52:28 Do you want a cigar?

Donnell Rawlings 52:29 Yeah, I'll take a cigar. I, I didn't wanna do the show, and I'll tell you why, 'cause I'm s- s- the streets say I'm sensitive.

Joe Rogan 52:37 You are a little sensitive.

Donnell Rawlings 52:39 Can I have, not have your opinion and just listen to me, please? [static] The, um, uh, they know I'm sensitive. It was during the pandemic, Joe, you remember, people would still come to do your podcast 'cause they know the benefits of it, and you had your thing going. They would come to your podcast, and then they would fucking leave 'cause they didn't wanna catch COVID, and then they would leave Tony stranded, and he had no good guests. I was here, right? This was when, when... I'm talking about the time when Tony had a Black band.

Joe Rogan 53:15 He still has a Black band.

Donnell Rawlings 53:16 All Black. There's a couple black people in there now. Me too.

Joe Rogan 53:20 I think it's mostly Black, right?

Donnell Rawlings 53:22 Okay. I wanna tell a story. This is the last time I'm gonna talk about it.

Joe Rogan 53:25 D Madnesz, I mean, l- na- name them all off.

Donnell Rawlings 53:26 This is the last time, Joe. I wanna tell the truth.

Joe Rogan 53:28 The drummer and the guitar player are not.

53:30 What's that?

53:31 Mike, drummer.

53:32 Yeah, I mean, there's, like-

53:33 The, the horns.

53:35 A lot of them are Black.

53:36 Definitely.

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Donnell Rawlings 54:56 Look at the old f- when it, when this, when it was all, had not high production and all that type of shit, Tony was like, "It's hard for me to get a guest. Would you stay?" And this is when you fucked me up the last time-

Joe Rogan 55:06 I did?

Donnell Rawlings 55:06 ... you wasn't playing fair. Yes, you did.

Joe Rogan 55:08 I wasn't playing fair?

Donnell Rawlings 55:09 No.

Joe Rogan 55:09 Me?

Donnell Rawlings 55:09 I'm telling you when you weren't playing fair.

Joe Rogan 55:11 When was I not playing fair?

Donnell Rawlings 55:12 Can I talk?

Joe Rogan 55:13 Please. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 55:14 All I wanna do... [laughing] I don't know if I got a raise in my hand, I just wanna be able to speak.

Joe Rogan 55:18 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 55:18 It is my month. It's my fucking month.

Joe Rogan 55:21 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 55:21 So Tony said, "Would you stay? Come on." I was like, "You know-... and I stayed, right?

Joe Rogan 55:25 Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 55:26 And I stayed, and I stayed. I was on his show for two and a half hours. I told him, this is where it gets all crazy, I told him I had a something I was supposed to do later. There was another black comic that was on his show. He started roasting me. I had no problem with that. I had no problem with him roasting me, but I felt fucked up because it was only me, him, and I was trying to give this guy some sound advice, but the only way he thought he was gonna get off, by fucking with me. So I was like: "Yo, why you fucking with me? We on the same- we on the same fucking same team." What they did was... Look at the fucking video!

Joe Rogan 55:57 Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 55:57 You see, I want you to slow it down.

Joe Rogan 56:00 Slow it down?

Donnell Rawlings 56:01 Slow the video down.

Joe Rogan 56:03 It's like a Zapruder film.

Donnell Rawlings 56:04 It's like-

Joe Rogan 56:05 Back to the left.

Donnell Rawlings 56:06 You gotta let... You're gonna let me fully get my thought, Joe.

Joe Rogan 56:09 Sorry.

Donnell Rawlings 56:10 It's so easy for me to get distracted. Just how you know me.

Joe Rogan 56:12 Want a piece of gum? [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 56:17 So if you look at this video, you see him saying something to me, and then when I leave, it's two different fucking comics on the fucking stage! It's the dude that I was roasting, and then they showed me the exit, and then these Kill Tony, bitch-ass motherfuckers... And I'm telling you, I'll get past it. They may, "Oh, Donnell walked off." I didn't walked off, I had some other shit to do. Then the last episode, you and your boy, Tony, he called here, and Tony doubled down on it, and he said, "No, that's not what happened." Of course, them comic motherfuckers, the ones that be putting cringe on it-

Joe Rogan 56:53 Mm

Donnell Rawlings 56:53 ... they rolled with it.

Joe Rogan 56:54 Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 56:55 Then I came back.

Joe Rogan 56:58 Came back and had an amazing show. Tony said it was one of the best shows he's ever done.

Donnell Rawlings 57:02 You know why it was amazing, Joe?

Joe Rogan 57:03 'Cause you were ready.

Donnell Rawlings 57:04 I- I'm amazing.

Joe Rogan 57:06 You, you are amazing, but also you wanted to get it back, right?

Donnell Rawlings 57:10 I didn't have... You know what?

Joe Rogan 57:11 Little bit.

Donnell Rawlings 57:12 This is what Redman said to me, Redman, Redman, whatever the fuck his name is.

Joe Rogan 57:16 Different, human being.

Donnell Rawlings 57:16 He changed too. I'm gonna tell you about-

Joe Rogan 57:17 Well, I was in the Wu-Tang era. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 57:18 Let me tell you [laughing] I'm gonna tell you the difference between him, and I'm gonna tell you the similarities between him and Jamie a little later on, right?

Joe Rogan 57:25 Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 57:25 How they're divas now, and I know you said a different-

Joe Rogan 57:28 Jamie? My Jamie's a diva?

Speaker 57:29 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 57:29 Yes, yo-

Speaker 57:29 He has a false memory of someone already.

Donnell Rawlings 57:31 Yo, yes.

Joe Rogan 57:31 I'll let him go to the video.

Speaker 57:33 Jamie was-

Donnell Rawlings 57:33 The last, the last time-

Joe Rogan 57:34 Jamie is the last thing from a fucking diva.

Speaker 57:35 He said it was like hair gel. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 57:36 I will defend Jamie-

Donnell Rawlings 57:37 The last time-

Joe Rogan 57:37 ... to the bitter end.

Donnell Rawlings 57:38 Well, maybe you don't know him, but [laughing] -

Joe Rogan 57:40 I don't know Jamie?!

Donnell Rawlings 57:41 Yo, let me tell you, this is Jamie.

Joe Rogan 57:43 I know Jamie better than his mom.

Donnell Rawlings 57:45 I know.

Speaker 57:45 [laugh]

Donnell Rawlings 57:45 But this is the Jamie I saw.

Joe Rogan 57:48 [laughing] Sit down.

Donnell Rawlings 57:49 At Kill Tony afterparty.

Joe Rogan 57:50 Sit down, you're not on camera.

Donnell Rawlings 57:51 Okay. All right, sorry.

Joe Rogan 57:52 It was also a Saturday night. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 57:53 Okay. Then he had a leather jacket on.

Speaker 57:56 [laughing] I don't have a leather jacket.

Joe Rogan 57:56 Jamie had a leather jacket? He doesn't own a leather jacket.

Donnell Rawlings 57:58 Whatever it was-

Joe Rogan 57:59 Do you own a leather jacket? No, he doesn't even own one. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 58:00 No, wait, wait, wait, wait. The collar was flipped up.

Joe Rogan 58:03 You're having a false memory. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 58:04 Joe, the collar was flipped up-

Joe Rogan 58:05 Like Dice

Donnell Rawlings 58:06 ... and Jimmy, and Jimmy had his shirt-

Speaker 58:08 He might have had Timmy No Breaks there, but he's confused. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 58:11 Yo, Joe-

Donnell Rawlings 58:11 Timmy No Breaks and Jamie, do you think- [laughing]

Joe Rogan 58:12 Joe, he had the shirt open to this button right here.

Donnell Rawlings 58:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:14 Oh, right.

Donnell Rawlings 58:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:15 Gold chains.

Donnell Rawlings 58:15 And he was sitting there. I don't know what type of mousse or-

Joe Rogan 58:18 Jamie, Jamie had gold chains, boots on, his hair.

Donnell Rawlings 58:20 Ponytail was popping. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 58:22 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 58:22 He had some type of mousse or something, right? And then he was just looking, and I was like: "What's up, Jamie?" He was like, "Uh..." He had his hands in his pocket. It was giving, as they say, it was giving Fonzie attitude. I knew-

Joe Rogan 58:33 Wow!

Donnell Rawlings 58:34 ... I knew that had changed. But this is what Redman-

Joe Rogan 58:36 This is crazy

Donnell Rawlings 58:36 ... Redman, whatever the man he is-

Joe Rogan 58:37 Redbam.

Donnell Rawlings 58:38 Redman, he said, after the show, he said, "That must've been the most epic comeback in Kill Tony history." I was like, "Oh-"

Joe Rogan 58:46 Well, the second episode was.

Donnell Rawlings 58:48 You know what?

Joe Rogan 58:48 You came back full steam.

Donnell Rawlings 58:49 You know what you're doing? I don't know-

Joe Rogan 58:50 It was great!

Donnell Rawlings 58:51 I'm trying to use the term, I don't, I don't think it's passive agg- wrestle, but you're fucking with my mental right now.

Joe Rogan 58:56 No!

Donnell Rawlings 58:56 Because-

Joe Rogan 58:56 I'm telling you, you're a great comic, and you're funny as fuck-

Donnell Rawlings 58:59 No, that's not what you said

Joe Rogan 59:00 ... and when you came back, it was amazing.

Donnell Rawlings 59:00 That's what you said.

Joe Rogan 59:01 The second episode was great.

Donnell Rawlings 59:02 This is the point I'm making at what you're doing.

Joe Rogan 59:05 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 59:05 The first episode was great.

Joe Rogan 59:06 Ah.

Donnell Rawlings 59:07 It was doctor... [laughing]

Joe Rogan 59:10 [laughing]

Speaker 59:10 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 59:11 It was, it was doctor videos, sir.

Joe Rogan 59:14 Doctor videos. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 59:15 You doctored it. But then, then here's the thing: they said, Redman, Redman, he said, he said, "That was the greatest comeback." I was like: "It wasn't a comeback. You're editing what it was," and this is what I did.

Joe Rogan 59:28 You're editing!

Donnell Rawlings 59:29 This is what I did.

Joe Rogan 59:31 Ah.

Donnell Rawlings 59:31 And I'm not saying I think about the Kill Tony audience like that, but I thought about them.

Joe Rogan 59:36 Grr.

Donnell Rawlings 59:36 'Cause what... This is what I said. I was like, this is what I want. Like you said, I'm a great comic. I know what I do. I said, "You know what? I don't want to give these motherfuckers the opportunity to be able to fuck with me." So I did, before I went out last, I said, "Okay, what did you do last time that you're gonna do different before they want to say that?" I was like, "The last one, you had some drinks." Well, I d- I wasn't able to do anything about that, 'cause I had some more drinks. But I was like, I tried to address what their concerns were, right? Which, a- a- with them, it's not gonna make a difference, 'cause I know that last episode, what th- this is what I didn't understand about Kill Tony. I didn't understand the f- the, the formula. I don't watch it like that. First time I ever did it, I was interrupting the one-minute part, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:00:16 Oh, okay. Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:00:16 And Tony told me, the first time I did it, he said, "D, only one rule." He said, "Let them talk for a minute." I said, "Tony, why you have this on me on this show? You know I'm gonna break the rules."

Joe Rogan 1:00:26 Ah. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:00:27 He knew that, right? But then after I r- r- I was like, I understood how important it was to let those comics get that minute.

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:00:36 So when I did it a second time with Rob Schneider, I didn't interrupt. Sometimes my criticism could've been too hard. I was trying to be more supportive than anything. If you watch the last one I did, I had nothing bad to say about people in a harsh way. Certain people I knew was up there just 'cause it was gimmick, and there were certain people, I was like, "Oh, man, they've really got talent." Like this one lady, she was an older woman, I think she's a regular there, right? I don't know where she- know who she was, but I told her, I said, "You know, it's so awesome." I said, "When I watch you perform, I see passion. I see somebody that's going into a different career later in life, which is the hardest thing to do." I made those points, like, and I wasn't trying to be an asshole. And even... I got caught up in one, and they ran with this shit. And it's a song that, uh, there was one of the acts by the name of Juanita. Juanita is a, a gender... What is it when you-

Joe Rogan 1:01:24 Transgender?

Donnell Rawlings 1:01:25 Yeah, you, you have a dick, but you're a girl still?

Joe Rogan 1:01:27 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:01:28 Yeah, transgender, right? So she came out with this song, and she did a song, "We will, we will praise you, ch- praise you." And I had a couple drinks, right? [upbeat music] And I said... And I was thinking like-

Speaker 1:01:39 ... shit, you don't have to have fun?

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 ... What? What, Jamie?

Speaker 1:01:43 I just started playing it, sorry. [laughing]

Speaker 1:01:44 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:01:44 What, the song? The song... Oh, you geared up for that shit, huh? You geared up-

Speaker 1:01:48 Put your headphones on.

Donnell Rawlings 1:01:48 No, listen. [chuckles]

Speaker 1:01:49 Put your headphones on.

Donnell Rawlings 1:01:50 Oh, God. Okay, hold on, hold on.

Speaker 1:01:53 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:01:54 Hey, go on. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Speaker 1:01:56 [laughing] Go!

Speaker 1:01:58 Go ahead. [upbeat music]

Speaker 1:02:07 Buddy, you're a bo-

Speaker 1:02:08 All right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:02:09 Wait a minute, that's Juanita's version?

Speaker 1:02:11 That's... No. [upbeat music]

Speaker 1:02:11 ♪ We will, we will ♪

Donnell Rawlings 1:02:12 That's the real-

Speaker 1:02:13 ♪ Praise the Lord ♪

Donnell Rawlings 1:02:13 Okay, okay. Do you got Juanita's version?

Speaker 1:02:16 Oh, I can find it.

Donnell Rawlings 1:02:17 Get to it. So this is what happened, Joe. So I'm... I had a couple, two, two, three, four, five Titos in.

Speaker 1:02:23 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:02:25 And I'm only looking at the artist with my peripheral.

Speaker 1:02:27 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:02:27 I'm not staring nobody down and, like-

Speaker 1:02:30 Right

Donnell Rawlings 1:02:30 ... looking at them in the, through the pupils or whatever. So the performer, I'm gonna say that, 'cause I don't wanna get anybody upset. The performer was like-

Speaker 1:02:37 Here we go.

Speaker 1:02:40 I'll just let all of them talk to us, so I'll just-

Donnell Rawlings 1:02:41 Okay.

Speaker 1:02:42 ... hear a minute.

Donnell Rawlings 1:02:42 Now, look how I'm not paying attention.

Speaker 1:02:44 Right, you're looking right at her.

Donnell Rawlings 1:02:45 Shut the fuck up! Okay, listen. [laughing]

Speaker 1:02:48 [chuckles] All right, we'll see. Um, so it was very strange when in 2008-

Speaker 1:02:56 I'm sorry.

Donnell Rawlings 1:02:57 Okay.

Speaker 1:02:58 Oh, they had to cut it out, too, I think. 'Cause-

Donnell Rawlings 1:03:00 Probably the song.

Speaker 1:03:01 That's nine minutes.

Speaker 1:03:01 Yeah. [audience laughing]

Speaker 1:03:04 I- that's the gayest thing I've ever done. [audience laughing] And I do anal. [audience laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:03:12 [chuckles]

Speaker 1:03:12 Believe it or not. Juanita! [audience applauding]

Speaker 1:03:14 Hey.

Speaker 1:03:14 Welcome back to the show. Hi-

Donnell Rawlings 1:03:17 Can I do a remix of that song for any Black guy watching her right now?

Speaker 1:03:20 [chuckles] Yeah.

Speaker 1:03:21 Oh, no.

Donnell Rawlings 1:03:21 We will, we will fuck you!

Speaker 1:03:25 [laughing] It's-

Donnell Rawlings 1:03:26 Oh

Speaker 1:03:27 ... probably true, until you find out she has a dick, Donnell. [upbeat music] [laughing] That is a true- [laughing] Keep it going.

Donnell Rawlings 1:03:35 No, D- [laughing]

Speaker 1:03:37 Keep it going. This is amazing. That's how it happens, ladies and gentlemen. [upbeat music] [laughing] They can't tell.

Speaker 1:03:45 [laughing]

Speaker 1:03:45 No, Donnell, come back.

Speaker 1:03:47 [laughing]

Speaker 1:03:47 What-

Speaker 1:03:48 No, Donnell. [laughing]

Speaker 1:03:50 The brothers, the brothers can't tell. The brothers can't-

Donnell Rawlings 1:03:54 They will, they will fuck you! [laughing]

Speaker 1:03:57 They never... The last place-

Donnell Rawlings 1:03:58 I was trying to be nice to her! Set me up. [laughing]

Speaker 1:04:01 Donnell, the last- [laughing] Wait, keep it going, keep it going-

Donnell Rawlings 1:04:05 Oh, my God

Speaker 1:04:05 ... 'cause it's hilarious. [laughing] Whereas white guys know. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:04:12 Ah!

Speaker 1:04:12 That's the first place the white guys look.

Donnell Rawlings 1:04:14 It's over for me, nigga! [laughing] You ruined me.

Speaker 1:04:17 [laughing] I'm gonna-

Donnell Rawlings 1:04:19 It was out.

Speaker 1:04:20 Charlemagne's gonna find that clip. [laughing] "We will, we will fuck you." [laughing] You are, you are fucked, Donnell.

Donnell Rawlings 1:04:27 [laughing]

Speaker 1:04:29 Ah! I'm getting word from the street.

Donnell Rawlings 1:04:30 I was being nice.

Speaker 1:04:30 [laughing] I'm getting word from the street.

Donnell Rawlings 1:04:31 I knew it was something different, son.

Speaker 1:04:34 [upbeat music] I'm sure this happened-

Donnell Rawlings 1:04:36 I didn't wanna get banned like Dave Chappelle, nigga. [upbeat music]

Speaker 1:04:39 Donnell, I'm sure this happened before in Korea.

Donnell Rawlings 1:04:42 Stop touching me, son!

Speaker 1:04:43 [laughing] I'm sure in Korea, as an 18-year-old boy, this is a memory coming back to you. [laughing]

Speaker 1:04:50 [laughing] Oh, my God.

Speaker 1:04:51 This is usually how Black guys react. Oh, it's pretty. Juanita, have you been with a Black man before?

Speaker 1:04:58 We go there.

Speaker 1:04:59 Keep it going, keep it going. It gets even funnier. No. [laughing] Okay, are you just saying that so that he doesn't find you and kill you? No, I was raised right. [laughing] I'm just kidding. I mean, that's a joke! [audience laughing] Oh, shit.

Donnell Rawlings 1:05:11 Now I'm offended. [laughing]

Speaker 1:05:12 No, I, I have been, I've been with one. He was half. Okay, he was half. Half a Black. Okay. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:05:20 My career is over, nigga.

Speaker 1:05:21 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:05:26 Ah! It's, it's over. [laughing]

Speaker 1:05:31 Oh. [laughing]

Speaker 1:05:33 Come on, that was funny.

Donnell Rawlings 1:05:34 No, wait a minute. It was funny, and I didn't take... The funny thing about it was, I'd had a, I did have a couple drinks, right? People are like, "How did you not know?" Like, um, I live in the Midwest, and what I really thought it w- I know women that look just like Juanita.

Speaker 1:05:48 Sure.

Donnell Rawlings 1:05:49 That, that in the face is kind of, like, sketchy, like a Dollar General one to two. And, uh, I wasn't offended, but it just, it just caught me off guard. But what I'm... Going back to what I was saying about the Kill Tony thing, and this is another thing, people said, "Well, Donnell, you got upset 'cause Rob Schneider was roasting you," or whatever. First off, that was the first time Rob Schneider was on the show, right? He didn't really know too much about the Kill Tony platform. I l- knew a little more than he did, and at the beginning, he was kind of cold, if you wanna say. Not cold like not funny, but he just wasn't warmed up to the flow. And then I started saying things, like, we was, I was alley-ooping him, right?

Speaker 1:06:27 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:06:27 And it... Basically, people can say what they want, I helped get him comfortable on the show, and then he started crushing, right? He started crushing, and then we did, we... Anybody tell you, that episode was amazing, right?

Speaker 1:06:40 It was amazing.

Donnell Rawlings 1:06:41 But this is the thing, this is what... That place, that platform is not a place for you to tell how you really feel about somebody, right? And I owe Tony an apology, and I'll tell you why. When Tony did the, um, um, R-I- RNC, um, Republican National Convention, whatever, remember when he did the roasting?

Speaker 1:06:58 Yes.

Donnell Rawlings 1:06:59 For that, it was a very, very testy time, you know?

Speaker 1:07:02 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:07:03 P- politics, everybody said you shouldn't do this and everything.

Speaker 1:07:05 I told him not to do it.

Donnell Rawlings 1:07:07 You told him not to do the show or not to do the-

Speaker 1:07:09 The, the Republican Party thing.

Donnell Rawlings 1:07:10 Here's the thing, this is what... Just for the people that's listening, this is what happened at the end of that Kill Tony with me and Rob Schneider. All I wanted to do, I've, I, I had the question on, where do you draw the line? Do you draw a line of what people think, how you're supposed to respond to something? Or do you loyal- are you loyal to somebody on how they treat you and not how they are as a friend to you? And Tony wanted me to do that show, and anytime I've called Tony, he's pick up the phone, vice versa. We've been there for each other. My publicist-... I don't know if this is a good idea right now to- 'cause what you think is a nice gesture, you wanna do the show, people are gonna act like it's a political stance. I didn't want that, right? So I had to make-

Joe Rogan 1:07:49 You can't listen to publicists.

Donnell Rawlings 1:07:50 This is what I learned now, Joe. What I'm saying, that was my inexperience, whatever. And something I kept calling him, and I was like, "What if I do this?" 'Cause I had wanted to be reconnected with him, whatever, and I told Tony... He was hot! In a good way, in a positive way. I felt so bad, I called him, I said, "Man, I really wanna do the show, but I think people are gonna take it the wrong way now," right? And this one with me, I felt bad about it. I stood up at your condo. I was on the balcony, bruh, and I watched [laughs] motherfuckers go into the show. I felt bad about it. I didn't do it, and the only thing I wanted to do at the end of that Kill Tony episode was to apologize to him and say, "You know, as a friend, I probably wasn't there." And he understood. Even though I was like, "He's never gonna let me do the show again," he said, "I'd love to have you there." The only issue I had with Rob Schneider, in that moment, he didn't have the sense of me trying to say something serious, right? And he c- he was getting a laugh off this one joke, and it was at my expense. You know, when I had this moment, I was talking about friendship and everything. Rob kept on with this fucking corny joke, and I didn't wanna flip out, and then people took that as like, [tsks] "Oh, yeah, Rob roasted him." [scoffs] The fuck out of here. I was trying to talk about... And I had this issue, you might have the same issue. Some people know people certain way, you know them different way. And I'll use an example, and, and I'm gonna get shitted on for saying this or whatever. Like, "Oh, how could you say that?" I, um-

Joe Rogan 1:09:19 You gotta stop worrying about what other people think.

Donnell Rawlings 1:09:21 Can't do it. [clears throat] I can't do it. I just-

Joe Rogan 1:09:23 You gotta stop worrying about what other people think.

Donnell Rawlings 1:09:25 Okay, I will.

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 This is, this is the conflict.

Donnell Rawlings 1:09:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:09:27 You, you know how you feel. Just be yourself.

Donnell Rawlings 1:09:29 I'll just say this-

Joe Rogan 1:09:30 Oh-

Donnell Rawlings 1:09:30 ... Kid Rock. Kid Rock, right?

Joe Rogan 1:09:31 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:09:32 You say that name, for some people in certain places, they went, "Oh, fuck him," or whatever, right?

Joe Rogan 1:09:36 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:09:37 I met Kid Rock some years ago when we were doing the, uh, Cornfield shows in, um, in Yellow Springs.

Joe Rogan 1:09:43 Mm.

Donnell Rawlings 1:09:43 And I tell people something, we talked about this earlier, some people are provocateurs. I really believe Kid Rock doesn't believe half the shit he say, but I think that he knows it's gonna move the dial, is what it's gonna make him be in the headlines or where people are like, "Oh, shit-

Joe Rogan 1:09:56 Right

Donnell Rawlings 1:09:56 ... he's gonna stick to that." [clears throat]

Joe Rogan 1:09:58 Well, we did that show in Nashville. Remember we hung out with him and went to his house?

Donnell Rawlings 1:10:01 Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:10:02 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:10:02 Um, and, and with that, even when he came to Cornfield that time, this was the point where he said some crazy shit out of his mouth. Nobody wanted to be around him or anything, right? They was like, "Oh, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba."

Joe Rogan 1:10:12 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:10:12 Right. You know, when I do... I do this thing called... I do river runs in, in Yellow Springs, Ohio. And for some reason, I take people down the river, and it's like a peace thing, like you in nature.

Joe Rogan 1:10:22 Got a photo of you right outside the door.

Donnell Rawlings 1:10:23 I know, I asked for that photo here, too.

Joe Rogan 1:10:25 It's right outside the door.

Donnell Rawlings 1:10:25 You put it first. I love that. So d- now, if you look at that photo, you'll see the energy. That's the vibe I was on, and nobody wanted to get close to Kid Rock or anything, right? And I remember as a kid how the Black community accepted him in school. I'm thinking about that shit. We're riding down the river. Kid is over on one kayak, I'm on the other side, we're smoking a joint, and he looked at me, and I know he was sincere when he said it. He said, "Man, it feel like I just had 13 hours of anger management," right? And I was like, "Okay, I'm not trying to be a therapist or anything, but that felt good." Then at the end, we stopped, he's flipping burgers and shit. We got to know each other. We kept in touch with each other, and, um, he was doing a comedy festival in Nashville, right? He appreciated me as a comedian. He said, "Yo, D, I'm doing this..." I was, like, one of the first people he called, right? He said, "You wanna do it?" I was like, "Why not?" Then I thought about it, I was like, "Ah, what" ... Again, what you said, I was like, "What people gonna think?" Seven comedians on the show, I'm the only Black guy. I knew what I was walking into. I knew it was gonna be all MAGAs. It wasn't gonna be a gay person, it wasn't gonna be a midget, [chuckles] it wasn't gonna be a lesbian. It wasn't gonna be anything but bona fide, the real, real red, white, and blue flag motherfuckers. But I said, "Donnell, can you separate... Can you go up here, can you perform and, and be entertaining? Not shucking and jiving or none of that type of shit. I wanna be the last person, got a standing ovation, right, at the end of the show." This is what people might not understand, and I'm not trying to defend him or anything. At the end of the show, me and Kid Rock... Oh, in this case, I wanna say Kid Rock wasn't backstage, Bobby was, right?

Joe Rogan 1:12:03 Mm-hmm.

Donnell Rawlings 1:12:04 And he said, "Man" ... He looked at me, he said, "Man, I think we just brought this country back together," right? And I said, "Well, don't separate it, motherfucker." He said, "Okay." [chuckles] Two weeks later, he do some other stupid shit. When, when, when, when Trump got elected, I know people went to his page to see what his response was gonna be. Was he gonna gloat? Was he like, "Fuck y'all, this is America"? He did this video, which I thought was so dope, 'cause it showed two sides of him. It showed Kid Rock and it showed Bobby, right? And then how they both, uh, responded to Donald Trump being elected. The Kid Rock was the crotch-grabbing motherfucker, "Fuck you," right? Then he came out... You'll find this, he came out as Bobby with shorts, just no American flags, baseball cap, fucking reading glasses or whatever, and I thought it was dope. The dialogue that he had with it, he played the victory. He said, you know, "You know, we did win." He said, "But this is not a time to gloat. There's so much stuff that we need to do." He said, "All sides want to get to a certain place, but we have different o- ideas on how we're gonna get there." I thought that, for whatever people wanna think, I thought that was showing an- another side. And also, I told him, 'cause I would talk to him off and on, I said, "You know what song you, you should do? You should do Nina Simone's, uh, song, um, uh, Misunderstood. Right? Just sing that shit." But I know he wouldn't never do that, because the base that really l- likes or respor- supports him might be like, "Oh, he's soft now."... the point I'm making with, even though with Tony, with the situation, I consider Tony a good friend of mine, for different reasons, right? That's why I wanted to have that moment to say that. But Rob Schneider, as much as they say I took away from moments on that show, he took away from that moment. I wasn't trying to be a bitch, I wasn't trying to be soft, but I wanted to say, "I apologize," 'cause sometimes friendships gotta be stronger than that, and that's where I was with that. And as much as... I don't need the Kill Tony show. And this is what I always say about that show. I said, "There's not" ... That reminds me, Kill Tony reminds me of the Def Jam era, right? And when I say that, there was a platform for undiscovered talent, people that you'd never seen before. It's such a spectacle. Like, Def Jam, it was people that didn't have the skill set to fucking go headline, but they was being seen. Same thing with Kill Tony. You look at what-

Joe Rogan 1:14:29 Is your phone on? Is your phone dinging?

Donnell Rawlings 1:14:31 Oh, sorry.

Joe Rogan 1:14:31 Shut that shit off.

Donnell Rawlings 1:14:32 ... Uh, you look at-

Joe Rogan 1:14:32 Put it on silent.

Donnell Rawlings 1:14:32 This is what I appreciate about that show, [clears throat] for whoever likes it or whatever, it's a platform to get on. I've traveled around the country. It used to be, you remember back in the day, it was like, "Oh, I need to be on Letterman."

Joe Rogan 1:14:43 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:14:43 "I need to be on the Carson," whatever. That is the j- "I gotta get on Kill Tony."

Joe Rogan 1:14:47 100%.

Donnell Rawlings 1:14:48 And in some cases, there's some good and bad to that. There's some people that was ready for it. There's some people like, "You know what, you had two or three minutes worth of jokes." You know what I'm saying? "You're not ready." But it gave people some hope. When I was staying at the hotel the other day, three people traveled across the country, like, with the hopes of that, you know? So I know how important that show is. You know, is it the fan base? I want them to be like, "Oh, I can't wait to see him" But for me, I always... My whole career, Joe, I always wanted to be around the people, the places that they say the best comedians perform. When I started, um, when I was in New York, I always, I wanted to get passed to the Comedy Cellar. Not because I wanted to be a Cellar dweller. I didn't want to be the guy in the back, fucking just, every weekend, just sit back there, telling war stories. I was like, "If this is where the best comics perform, I want to be a part of that. I want to be passed to that" 'Cause when I got passed in the Comedy Cellar, there wasn't a lot of Black comedians working the Cellar.

Joe Rogan 1:15:46 Mm-hmm.

Donnell Rawlings 1:15:46 It was Greer Barnes, it was Keith Robinson, RIP, it was William Stevenson-

Joe Rogan 1:15:52 Patrice.

Donnell Rawlings 1:15:52 Patrice, Dave Chappelle. In fact, uh, Barry Katz had a room, d- uh, Boston Comedy Club, and it was Black night on Sundays, right? The Black comedians would look at me like, they'd say, "Where you going?" I was like, "I got a spot at the Cellar." They're like, "How the fuck did you get in the Cellar?" The way I got into it was, put the work in. I hung out, got a couple of recommendations, and when it's time for me to showcase, I did my thing. But the minute I got passed in the Cellar, I didn't really care about working there all the time. I just wanted to be validated as like-

Joe Rogan 1:16:18 [clears throat]

Donnell Rawlings 1:16:18 ... this is the spot. Same thing-

Joe Rogan 1:16:20 I get it.

Donnell Rawlings 1:16:20 You know, same thing with the Comedy Store. Same thing with what-

Joe Rogan 1:16:22 Yeah

Donnell Rawlings 1:16:22 ... you're doing here. It was that part of it.

Joe Rogan 1:16:24 [coughs]

Joe Rogan 1:16:25 I get it. Um, Greer Barnes, probably one of the most underappreciated talents in the country.

Donnell Rawlings 1:16:29 But you know what?

Joe Rogan 1:16:30 I've known that dude for 30 years. He's a funny motherfucker, and he's been funny forever.

Donnell Rawlings 1:16:34 You know, it's so funny that you said underappreciated, because, you know, when you... You know comedians that put the work in and whatever. It's a phrase that people use, underrated, but then you gotta ask, "Who rate it?" You didn't use those words. You said underappreciated. But he is. I don't know, sometimes you gotta ask yourself-

Joe Rogan 1:16:50 He's not underrated by comics.

Donnell Rawlings 1:16:52 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:16:52 He's underappreciated by audience members, for whatever reason. I think it's a social media thing. I just think he doesn't have a big presence on social media, for whatever reason. He's a solid, solid fucking comic, though. Always has been.

Donnell Rawlings 1:17:05 And a solid guy.

Joe Rogan 1:17:05 And a good dude.

Donnell Rawlings 1:17:06 But that's another thing. This is the era that we in right now, and it's like, and you know this, it's m- even more so now, the most talented people aren't getting the shots if you don't know how to evolve.

Joe Rogan 1:17:18 Well, it's not even just that, 'cause, like, look at Dave Chapp- uh, not Dave Chappelle, excuse me, Dave Attell. Dave Attell, I think, is one of the funniest dudes who's ever lived. Ever.

Donnell Rawlings 1:17:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:27 Ever. One of the best comics ever, in the history of comedy, and mostly does clubs.

Donnell Rawlings 1:17:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:17:32 And does, like, theaters and stuff like that. He should be sold-out arenas all across the country, but he does not promote himself. He's not into social media-

Donnell Rawlings 1:17:40 But I don't even think Attell is cap-

Joe Rogan 1:17:40 ... he doesn't do much other than specials.

Donnell Rawlings 1:17:43 I don't think... I think Attell would be petrified. Not that he couldn't do it, and it was prob- remember with the show he had, what was that? The Late Night Show. That was before anybody was doing it.

Joe Rogan 1:17:52 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:17:53 The Late Night Show, he'd go to bars and stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 1:17:55 Uh-huh.

Donnell Rawlings 1:17:56 This is before-

Joe Rogan 1:17:56 Insomniac.

Donnell Rawlings 1:17:57 Yeah, Insomniac. This is before anybody was doing it, right? I don't think that... Some people, th- they, like... I think he's always gonna make millions of dollars touring or whatever, but I think his comfort zone is, like, he's a, not a club act, but he's a club comic. I think the best thing for him, he ever wants to be, is in front of 250 to 500 people.

Joe Rogan 1:18:15 Well, he's awesome in that-

Donnell Rawlings 1:18:16 Back in the-

Joe Rogan 1:18:16 ... but he does, like, when Burt does arenas, he does arenas, and he murders in arenas. I think the, the real thing with him is that he's just focused on his craft only, and the props that he gets from other comedians on podcasts and things along those lines, is what really fuels his popularity, and then when people go to see him, just word of mouth.

Donnell Rawlings 1:18:35 Do you think some people might be afraid of a certain level of fame that they don't wanna have?

Joe Rogan 1:18:40 There is that-

Donnell Rawlings 1:18:41 'Cause you know-

Joe Rogan 1:18:41 ... but I don't think he's that. I just don't think he thinks about it. I mean, he doesn't even have a phone. Like, he, he carries-

Donnell Rawlings 1:18:46 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:18:46 ... a flip phone with him all the time. He has a iPhone that he, like, stores away, and sometimes he uses it. But when you text him, he texts you on like, do, do, do, do, do, where you gotta press four times to get an S.

Donnell Rawlings 1:18:56 You know what that is, though, Joe, you know what it is, right?

Joe Rogan 1:18:58 Well, he doesn't wanna be distracted.

Donnell Rawlings 1:18:59 He's in the Epstein files. [laughs] Yo, you gotta have a-

Joe Rogan 1:19:04 He doesn't wanna be distracted

Donnell Rawlings 1:19:05 ... you need a burner phone if you heavily in the Epstein files.

Joe Rogan 1:19:08 Ah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:19:09 No, I think-

Joe Rogan 1:19:10 He's only in the Epstein files 'cause he was on a lineup that Epstein was gonna go see at the Cellar.

Donnell Rawlings 1:19:14 I think Dave Attell-

Joe Rogan 1:19:16 Louis J. Gomez is on that, too.

Donnell Rawlings 1:19:18 That, I, I like. I think Dave Attell is, like... I think Dave Attell's ultimate happiness is being on stage.

Joe Rogan 1:19:27 Shut your fucking phone off, man. Put that shit on silent.

Donnell Rawlings 1:19:29 Sorry.

Joe Rogan 1:19:29 Just put it on silent. Do you know how to do that?

Donnell Rawlings 1:19:32 All right.

Joe Rogan 1:19:32 You don't know how to do that?

Donnell Rawlings 1:19:32 Don't, don't disrespect me like that. I'll turn it off-

Joe Rogan 1:19:33 Put it on Do Not Disturb. You know how to do that?

Donnell Rawlings 1:19:35 It's okay, it's off. It's off.

Joe Rogan 1:19:36 Okay, it keeps dinging-

Donnell Rawlings 1:19:37 I think, I think-

Joe Rogan 1:19:37 ... you popular motherfucker.

Donnell Rawlings 1:19:38 [chuckles] I think some people... [clears throat] I think, my opinion, Dave Attell, his comfort zone is fucking just being as incognito as he tries to be. It's just like, "Oh, I came up with this," but I don't know anybody that turns over material... There's certain comics, you look at, Joe, and you like, "God-... this motherfucker's constantly-

Joe Rogan 1:19:59 Constantly

Donnell Rawlings 1:19:59 ... trying.

Joe Rogan 1:20:00 Yeah, always.

Donnell Rawlings 1:20:01 I, like when I worked with Dave, he forced me to do that. Deon Cole is another guy. When I watch Deon Cole does, like, at the Hollywood Improv, I think maybe three times a week, he just have a Monday night, and he just use it as a workout, right? Me, when I go into a spot, I'm trying to beat the fuck... I'm trying to beat it up. So sometimes I get distracted on what I'm really there for, that's to work out new material. There's a such a, there's a different level when you just like, "You know what? I could deal with the silence. I could deal with something not working." And when I watch people like him... There's another comedian in LA by the name of, um, Malik S, that doesn't have all that notoriety like that, but when I see him, I'm like, "Damn!" Every time I see this motherfucker, he's working on some new shit and has the same passion. Everybody doesn't have that. That's why Dave Attell will always give other comics something to, like, try to achieve, 'cause you're like, you ain't gonna see him doing the same shit. It's always a flip, and that's what makes him who he is, and that's why he gets so respected by so many comedians.

Joe Rogan 1:20:57 Well, he's, he's only focused on his craft, whereas some people are really focused on social media and promotions, and they have a guy that films them doing a bunch of wild things and edits with music, and-

Donnell Rawlings 1:21:08 I've never seen so many comedians have full-out production crews with them-

Joe Rogan 1:21:15 Right

Donnell Rawlings 1:21:15 ... on an intro!

Joe Rogan 1:21:16 I know.

Donnell Rawlings 1:21:17 On stage.

Joe Rogan 1:21:18 They think that that's what they need, you know? They think that's what they need to separate them, and it does get them attention, but what it takes away, it, it, it does draw some focus away from what you're trying to do, which is work on your shit and come up with new stuff-

Donnell Rawlings 1:21:32 But it-

Joe Rogan 1:21:32 ... where Attell doesn't have any of that.

Donnell Rawlings 1:21:33 But with that said, it takes away, but then it also lets you know who the special people are. Right now, fucking my goddamn, um, guy that services my pool and shit, say he's got a H- he's got a special coming out. I don't know who doesn't have a special coming out. And the thing about it is, like, now, Joe, you know it, specials aren't... If you really look at it, specials aren't special anymore. It's special-

Joe Rogan 1:21:55 It's a weird word, right?

Donnell Rawlings 1:21:56 Spe-

Joe Rogan 1:21:56 Specials are a weird word.

Donnell Rawlings 1:21:58 It's, it's special-

Joe Rogan 1:21:59 "I got a new special." Like, no other a- art form calls it a special.

Donnell Rawlings 1:22:03 It's-

Joe Rogan 1:22:03 Like, if someone like Taylor Swift puts out a concert video, it's a video of her performance. You know, a, a musician puts out a, a video, it's that. It's like, for a comic, we got a weird word, special.

Donnell Rawlings 1:22:15 You know what's special is now? What, when you get excited about special, if you, if people still do that, it's who's putting it out. It's special people that do it.

Joe Rogan 1:22:22 Uh-huh.

Donnell Rawlings 1:22:22 It's special people like, um, d- Sebastian, he's doing a special. You know what I'm saying? Fucking Tom does a special. It's special people where you know it's special, and a lot of them now is just people that's doing 45 minutes worth of comedy. No beginning, no middle, no end, no point of view. You don't know anything about them. It's just like the same way they do photo dumps, it's just like joke dumps.

Joe Rogan 1:22:44 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:22:45 But I, I have to say, and I'm not... Pe- people say Dave Chappelle's a butt plug, but one thing I could say, however you look at it-

Joe Rogan 1:22:53 Dave Chappelle's a what?

Donnell Rawlings 1:22:54 No, "I'm Dave Chappelle's butt plug."

Joe Rogan 1:22:56 Oh.

Donnell Rawlings 1:22:56 I'm going back to... That's what people, you know, they un-

Joe Rogan 1:22:58 You gotta stop listening to what other people say.

Donnell Rawlings 1:23:01 Joe, I'm segueing into a story. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:23:07 Is it about Jamie wearing a Fonzie jacket? [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:23:09 Hey! [laughing] He's got them in all colors.

Joe Rogan 1:23:13 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:23:13 He's got them in all colors.

Joe Rogan 1:23:14 He's got a red, white, and blue one.

Donnell Rawlings 1:23:15 You know, and like people-

Joe Rogan 1:23:16 He took it off before the show

Donnell Rawlings 1:23:18 ... people get so critical, but at certain point-

Joe Rogan 1:23:21 [chuckles]

Donnell Rawlings 1:23:21 ... people evolve. People that, you know them a certain way, but then you're talking about a person who's a 35, 40-year career. Like, people like, "Well, this last special so-and-so did, it wasn't that funny." But how often, how long are you gonna just be, like, rip-roaring funny? Some people have a position where when they talk, people listen.

Joe Rogan 1:23:42 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:23:42 And I look at, I'll use Dave as an example. If you look at [coughs] all his specials, 20 years from now, right, you having a Netflix and chill day or whatever, if you play all the specials that Dave ever did, you would know exactly what was going on in the world at that time. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:24:01 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:24:01 You know what's going... Some people put out singles, they got one or two jokes, and some people pull out, put, pull, put out albums. He's, he's one of those people. Sebastian is another one, and you look at, like, you see how his comedy has evolved. People get older, they have different perspective on life, and that's what you have to fucking ac- ac- accept them for, but we don't, we don't do that.

Joe Rogan 1:24:20 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:24:20 And another thing, I don't know if this is prevalent in your community, and when I say that, your community is a lot of people, but in my community, man, it's just so much dumb beef. And I've... It's only one white be- white beef I've ever known about, and that's yours.

Joe Rogan 1:24:42 Mine?

Donnell Rawlings 1:24:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:24:45 What do you mean?

Donnell Rawlings 1:24:46 The beef that you had with a, I don't even remember-

Joe Rogan 1:24:48 With Vince Mia?

Donnell Rawlings 1:24:48 Yeah, years ago.

Joe Rogan 1:24:49 Oh. Well, that was the same thing, like, with Kat. Like, some shit just has to be exposed. That was a real problem, man. You weren't around the store back then, but it was a real problem, where he had that special, or that show rather, on Comedy Central after Dave left-

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:04 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:25:04 ... which was basically doing his version of Dave's sketches, and he was steep.

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:10 Do you think it was his version of Dave's sketches, or-

Joe Rogan 1:25:12 It was, a lot of shit was. Like, the one when he dressed like the white guy and had white paint on his face-

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:16 Right

Joe Rogan 1:25:16 ... and wore the white wig, it was basically the same character that Dave was doing.

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:19 Yeah, but if you look at the history of sketch comedy, I don't think Dave was the first person to ever paint and dress himself up to look like-

Joe Rogan 1:25:25 Mm, yeah, but it was-

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:26 Is that coincidence?

Joe Rogan 1:25:26 ... right afterwards.

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:28 But anything-

Joe Rogan 1:25:28 Right after

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:29 ... anything-

Joe Rogan 1:25:29 Same slot

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:31 ... anything that came after the Chappelle's Show, they would've compared it to-

Joe Rogan 1:25:34 Dave was saying it.

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:37 Dave never talked shit about nobody.

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:25:39 He was like, "This motherfucker's doing my show." Dave was saying it. Dave doesn't talk shit about nobody.

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:25:47 It was... But that was the m- that was only one of the problems. The real problem was-

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:52 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:25:52 ... he would do, sit in the back room and watch open mic nights-

Donnell Rawlings 1:25:54 Right

Joe Rogan 1:25:54 ... and take their shit. Like, when- they would flash the light when he was in the room, so comics wouldn't do material. They would start doing crowd work.

Donnell Rawlings 1:26:01 ... So why didn't he get exposed before that? Why did it just come down-

Joe Rogan 1:26:04 Because nobody had the balls to do it.

Donnell Rawlings 1:26:05 And then he had to pass on-

Joe Rogan 1:26:06 Because he was famous at the time, and he was doing w- And look at, it cost me. I got banned from the store, I lost my agent, and I was famous.

Donnell Rawlings 1:26:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:26:14 I, I was on Fear Factor, I was rich. I, there was a... I had a lot going for me where I could stick my neck out.

Donnell Rawlings 1:26:21 But you came back stronger. I'll give another example, like the same situation with Dave and Comedy Central and shit. As much as he went through that-

Joe Rogan 1:26:27 Yeah

Donnell Rawlings 1:26:27 ... he took a 12-year hiatus or whatever you wanna say.

Joe Rogan 1:26:29 Well, what Dave showed in that is that he's a real artist.

Donnell Rawlings 1:26:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:26:33 Dave just said, "Fuck it, I'm gonna disappear for a while," like a legend. He just disappeared. I remember when w- I was hearing stories about Dave doing shows where he would set up a, a speaker in Seattle in the park and just start doing stand-up, and people are like, "What the fuck?" And for no money. People would just show up, and he would just do street performances.

Donnell Rawlings 1:26:51 But you know, where, where, where it was kind of where he got it from? You've, you've heard of a comic, I'm pretty sure of it, Charlie Barnett?

Joe Rogan 1:26:56 100%.

Donnell Rawlings 1:26:57 Charlie-

Joe Rogan 1:26:57 Yeah, we played Charlie Barnett on the show. I knew Charlie.

Donnell Rawlings 1:26:59 Charlie was like, if you ever thought you were funny or whatever, go... This is what the art of... Only people I've ever known that got certain level of success was that, that Charlie Barnett, Michael Collier, when he used to do Venice Beach.

Joe Rogan 1:27:11 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:27:11 But people don't understand how... But Charlie Barnett would like... To, to go to a park, go to the center of Washington Square Park-

Joe Rogan 1:27:20 And get a gather around a bunch of people in a circle.

Donnell Rawlings 1:27:22 And you gotta... It's a certain, certain technique. Not only that, you gotta hold their attention for one joke.

Joe Rogan 1:27:27 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:27:27 You gotta get them involved, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Joe Rogan 1:27:29 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:27:30 And you build this audience up, and then it's really for one joke.

Joe Rogan 1:27:33 A lot of people don't know that Charlie got Saturday Night Live, but he couldn't read.

Donnell Rawlings 1:27:37 Yeah, he couldn't, and that's what gate opened up the door.

Joe Rogan 1:27:39 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:27:40 And, and but, but he was so gangster, like, when they wouldn't give him spots because, you know, he was probably a bit to deal with, he would go to the Boston Comedy Club and yell in there, "Don't go in there! I'm doing my show in five minutes." The whole fucking club would come out.

Joe Rogan 1:27:58 [chuckles]

Donnell Rawlings 1:27:58 That's how much power he had. But then sometimes that we become victims of our own vices and everything, and destroy us more than anything. That's why when people talk shit about, like, they, "Oh, Kevin, Kevin Hart didn't get out the mud," it's, you got funny, but you know funny isn't everything. Okay, you're funny, that's ni- oh, so good that you got talent, but more importantly, it's your work ethics and how do you take your God-given talent and your passion and turn it into money? You know, you're into music and everything, you probably could name a million saxophonists or whatever that didn't get the due, that you could be like, "Well, listen to this shit," but for some reason, they didn't have the business part and, and, and all that together. And I'm going back, I'm probably talking in circles now, but this is what upsets me the most about, uh, my folks or whatever, these people that go on these platforms and talk shit about people. There was a comedian that was talking shit about Martin Lawrence, right? "Well, I saw Martin Lawrence, and Martin Lawrence in the casino, he's really... He's not that funny." I'm like this, "Motherfucker, he's Martin Lawrence!"

Joe Rogan 1:29:07 Well, they didn't know him in the '90s.

Donnell Rawlings 1:29:09 No, no, this person-

Joe Rogan 1:29:10 I used to have to follow Martin Lawrence at The Comedy Store.

Donnell Rawlings 1:29:12 No, this person particularly, it... No, if you just know Martin Lawrence, period, that's enough. Richard Pryor, before he passed away, when he was in a wheelchair, damn near rolled him out on the stage, sold-out audiences.

Joe Rogan 1:29:24 I followed him for six weeks.

Donnell Rawlings 1:29:26 So-

Joe Rogan 1:29:26 I followed him for six weeks at The Comedy Store when he was like that.

Donnell Rawlings 1:29:29 Certain people, Joe, I look at in this business, are made people. How dare you talk shit-

Joe Rogan 1:29:33 Right

Donnell Rawlings 1:29:33 ... about this motherfucker?

Joe Rogan 1:29:34 That's a good way to put it.

Donnell Rawlings 1:29:35 And another thing-

Joe Rogan 1:29:35 He's a made man

Donnell Rawlings 1:29:36 ... another thing, Joe-

Joe Rogan 1:29:37 A legend

Donnell Rawlings 1:29:37 ... uh, you know, in this business, you can have a career, right? But you have certain times when you just ruled. You had three years. Martin Lawrence, film star, a movie star, comedy star, he had one period of time for five or seven years when it was just Martin everywhere. How dare you, as a person gets older, and whether he has a good, bad, a night or a bad night, how are you to judge? And you ain't doing shit. How are you to judge a motherfucker that... When I was coming up, Joe, every fucking Black comic in the business wanted an audition. Everybody wanted to be Hustle Man. Everybody wanted to just get two or three minutes on Martin's show, 'cause they knew what that dude, that would do to their career. So you judge a motherfucker years down the road, right, where they basically... When Martin goes out, guess what? Martin not doing no tour saying, "I'm doing 45 minutes," whatever. He's like, "Y'all wanna see me? Guess what? Y'all gonna see this young talent. You're gonna see this person. I'm putting people on." How dare you even have come out your fucking mouth and talk shit about this motherfucker? How dare you talk shit about motherfuckers and talk shit about Kevin Hart? How dare you talk shit about a motherfucker that was rocking with a dude, Nate, Nate Smith, RIP, passed away. I remember when Kevin Hart was the one of the motherfuckers doing those comment cards. "All right, all right, I'm doing e-miss, e- e- email list. One person..." I, I remember when fucking Kevin Hart had fucking 20,000 people on Instagram, no, on Twitter, and at the radio, he was like, "Yo, Radio Station, yo, D, this is the problem." I seen the hard work. I see him not just come to fucking New York and do the black rooms. "I'm doing the black rooms, I'm doing the white rooms, I'm doing all of this shit." How dare you... I'll, I'll just say this, and I'll answer this, it ain't no beef or nothing. Katt Williams said... This is what Katt Williams said about Kevin Hart: "I find it very strange that you just come from New York, and then you have a TV show and a movie show, and how does that happen? You were in New York." I'll tell you how it happens! You're on the biggest showcase in comedy, and you know what that is, JFL, Just for Laughs. Kevin Hart was a product of that, Monique was a product of that, Dave Chappelle was a product of that. No, Kevin Hart wasn't pounding the streets in LA, but he happened to be on a showcase. When you yeah- back in the day, you do a JFL, it was motherfuckers leaving there that probably had $500 in the bank, leaving with a quarter million dollar development deal just to do nothing. That's the era it was.

Joe Rogan 1:32:03 I remember.

Donnell Rawlings 1:32:03 So just because you weren't in LA, doesn't mean you wasn't, you wasn't beating the pavement. And I don't care, in LA, you got LA and New York, nobody as a stand-up comic grinds as hard as a comic coming from New York opposed to LA.... and the reason why LA don't have that many stages. LA don't have that many stages. They used to tell you all the time, as a stand-up comic, if you, if you're trying to be an actor, whatever, go to LA. If you wanna be a great stand-up comic, bang it out in New York. And this was, this was the rule back in the day, Joe: Let Hollywood call you. You just don't go to LA to sleep on somebody couch. Some people had that story, but it was like you grind, and back then-

Joe Rogan 1:32:38 Everybody's got their own path, Donnell.

Donnell Rawlings 1:32:39 Everybody-

Joe Rogan 1:32:40 You can do whatever the fuck you want.

Donnell Rawlings 1:32:41 That's the-

Joe Rogan 1:32:41 Just work on your act.

Donnell Rawlings 1:32:42 That's the point that I'm making.

Joe Rogan 1:32:44 Yeah. It's just everybody's got their own path.

Donnell Rawlings 1:32:46 But I-

Joe Rogan 1:32:46 The, the real problem in this conversation is what I said earlier, it's worrying about what other people think. The more you spend time worrying about what other people think, the less you're worrying about what you're doing.

Donnell Rawlings 1:32:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:57 You want... Less you're thinking about what you're actually trying to achieve.

Donnell Rawlings 1:33:00 And I listen to what you're saying, and I don't listen to what you're saying [chuckles] ., And, and the reason why I say that, every time I go into this rabbit hole or whatever, and it's the echo. It's like a, a, a, a Rogan angel right here, and it's whispering, "Don't read the comments."

Joe Rogan 1:33:14 Yeah, but I'm right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:33:16 I still read them.

Joe Rogan 1:33:17 I know you shouldn't.

Donnell Rawlings 1:33:18 But I... I'm, I'm stopping.

Joe Rogan 1:33:20 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:33:20 But this is another thing I didn't know. What I didn't know is that white comedians actually have beef with each other. I did not know, or at least it's not, uh... You don't hear about it.

Joe Rogan 1:33:36 It's rare. It's more rare, and the ones who have beef are usually failures. They're usually-

Donnell Rawlings 1:33:42 No, no, no, no, no!

Joe Rogan 1:33:42 ... people that aren't doing well.

Donnell Rawlings 1:33:44 No.

Joe Rogan 1:33:44 They're usually people that aren't doing well.

Donnell Rawlings 1:33:44 I got, I got an example.

Joe Rogan 1:33:46 Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 1:33:46 I'm exposing the industry right now. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:33:48 Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 1:33:48 I'm exposing. I have an example that's so funny, and this was interesting. I was at the Comedy Store.

Joe Rogan 1:33:53 Oh, you told me this.

Donnell Rawlings 1:33:55 [laughing] This is so fucking funny to me, Seth.

Joe Rogan 1:33:58 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:33:58 About two months ago, right? I'm good friends with Bill Burr. You know, we did... We had the, um, Rich Bitch tour with Charlie Murphy, me, Bill Burr, years ago. And I know, uh, Marc Maron, right? I don't know [chuckles] ... What I found out is, I didn't know Marc Maron the way white people know Marc Maron, right? So I know Marc Maron. Like, when I see Marc Maron, I was like, "Oh, that's the guy that had one of the greatest podcasts out. That guy that was one of the alternative comedy favorites, Marc Maron's special, pa, pa, pa, pa, pa." So when I see Marc Maron, I have a certain level of respect. Like, "Oh, that's the guy who did it, whatever." So I was doing Andy Letterman's show for what, uh, Annie Wood or whatever, right? And I love that girl. Um, and I'm in the green room, and I'm smoking a joint. I forgot who sponsored this weed, but it was incredible, right? So I'm in there, and I'm cracking jokes. Bill is right there, and then Marc is over by the side of the door, and I'm cracking jokes with Bill and everything, and I felt something didn't... Nobody was really laughing at my jokes, right? [chuckles] Then all of a sudden, a whole fucking argument popped off, and it was like, it was white argument because it was so nice. They were so gentleman to each other. It was a whole bunch of, "Oh, yeah, but you'll never do my podcast." It was like podcast beats. I'm right in the middle. I don't even know... I didn't even know that they had beef like this, but they were so gentle about it. But I tell you, the difference between white beef and Black beef, I never felt that I was gonna get shot. [laughing] Yo, I felt so safe.

Joe Rogan 1:35:28 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:35:28 Yo, if anything, I thought it'd be like lawsuits the next morning, defamation of character, slander, but I never knew that it was fucking Caucasian on Caucasian beef like that-

Joe Rogan 1:35:38 But this is an example.

Donnell Rawlings 1:35:39 And it was entertaining.

Joe Rogan 1:35:40 This is an example.

Donnell Rawlings 1:35:40 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:35:41 Marc Maron was doing really well at one point in time in his career-

Donnell Rawlings 1:35:43 Right

Joe Rogan 1:35:44 ... and now he's not.

Donnell Rawlings 1:35:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:35:45 So Marc Maron had the number one podcast, and after a while, his podcast wasn't even in the top 200.

Donnell Rawlings 1:35:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:35:50 It dropped off. Bill Burr, his careers took off.

Donnell Rawlings 1:35:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:35:55 He, he's doing arenas. He's killing it. Marc's not. M- and Marc finds reasons to criticize other people that are doing much better than him, and he focuses on that because he thinks he should be getting more than he deserves.

Donnell Rawlings 1:36:06 But do you think that's going back to being a provocateur?

Joe Rogan 1:36:08 No.

Donnell Rawlings 1:36:08 He knows if he talk this shit, people will engage?

Joe Rogan 1:36:09 No, no, no. I think it's going back to being bitter and jealous-

Donnell Rawlings 1:36:12 Right

Joe Rogan 1:36:12 ... and thinking about other people instead of thinking about himself and why people don't want to go see him anymore. He was upset when we left the Comedy Store because we took the crowds away.

Donnell Rawlings 1:36:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:21 And it's like, "Hey, you were on the fucking marquee, too, man."

Donnell Rawlings 1:36:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:36:25 "You- they're not coming to see you. And the reason why they're not coming to see you is 'cause you're not doing well. And your podcast was in the top. It was number one." And when it was at number one, by the way, this is what I always say about Marc Maron, he was great. Marc Maron was fun to hang out with when he was killing it-

Donnell Rawlings 1:36:39 Right

Joe Rogan 1:36:40 ... because he was happy, 'cause he was getting validation, because he had the number one podcast. We were friends. Like, I did his podcast, he did mine. We had a good time.

Donnell Rawlings 1:36:48 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:36:48 I'd hug him when I see him. It like, we had gone back and forth many times and having beef with each other.

Donnell Rawlings 1:36:53 Do you think people-

Joe Rogan 1:36:53 His prob- Let me finish.

Donnell Rawlings 1:36:54 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:36:54 His problem was when everybody else started doing really good, and he started dropping off.

Donnell Rawlings 1:37:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:37:00 That's what happened.

Donnell Rawlings 1:37:01 Why... This is what I don't understand: Why can't people understand that you have a moment? Like I was talking-

Joe Rogan 1:37:06 Because he's a s- fucking narcissist-

Donnell Rawlings 1:37:08 Right

Joe Rogan 1:37:08 ... and he wants the moment to always be around him. He wants it to always be about him, and when other people are doing better than him, he wants to talk shit about them.

Donnell Rawlings 1:37:15 Do you think being a narcissist-

Joe Rogan 1:37:15 And that's where Bill had a problem with it.

Donnell Rawlings 1:37:17 You think being a narcissist in this field is a bad thing? And for some reason, I think that kind of fuels you to be the person that you are, to be determined to do and not give a fuck about what nobody think.

Joe Rogan 1:37:25 Well, having self-respect and having an ego where you care about what you put out, yes, that's a good thing. But making it all about you and not being able to appreciate other people's work is crazy because other people doing well can be fuel for you to be inspired and do better yourself-

Donnell Rawlings 1:37:44 Right

Joe Rogan 1:37:44 ... and that's a positive thing.

Donnell Rawlings 1:37:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:37:45 And if these people are your friends, and you love them, and you care about them, you should be happy that they're killing it. And if you're not killing it anymore, you should try to figure out why. Because it's not like the door's not open. It's not like you're not getting on stage. It's not like you're not putting out specials. You should probably figure out why your podcast dropped from number one to not even in the top 200 anymore, without anything happening. You didn't get arrested. There was no scandal. There was nothing crazy. You should try to figure that out, and he doesn't do that, 'cause he's instead bitter, bitter and jealous. He's always been like that.

Donnell Rawlings 1:38:14 I didn't know that about him.

Joe Rogan 1:38:15 There's that story about Jon Stewart.

Donnell Rawlings 1:38:16 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:38:17 And Andrew Schulz came on the podcast and told a story about Jon Stewart and Maron, where-... Maron confronted Jon Stewart, but Jon Stewart got on some television show, he called him a fucking sellout. He yelled at him, all this different shit. Jon Stewart left the show, and they hired Maron to do the same show.

Donnell Rawlings 1:38:32 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 1:38:32 The same show that he was calling Jon Stewart for being a sellout-

Donnell Rawlings 1:38:35 So how did you go from that to... Okay, for you to have one of the biggest podcasts, at some point in your career, you had to be likable, or you think people just wanted to do the show because of the platform?

Joe Rogan 1:38:44 There wasn't very many pod- podcasts back then.

Donnell Rawlings 1:38:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:38:47 The thing that killed Maron's podcast, my personal opinion, no hate, is that he has this rant at the beginning of his podcast that's not entertaining. I don't think it's good. And he- the rant was long, and he would just ramble about himself, was very self-obsessed, and I just don't think it was good, and I think that was part of the problem. It's also, the problem was how he interviewed people. He had a very confrontational interview style, specifically with some comedians that he felt like were below him or that he could pick on.

Donnell Rawlings 1:39:13 You would think that that style would work in this day and age with the-

Joe Rogan 1:39:16 No, no, no, no, no. People don't want always to be uncomfortable. They wanna like you, man. They want you to be a good person.

Donnell Rawlings 1:39:22 People want train wrecks.

Joe Rogan 1:39:24 They want train wrecks for 15-second or 30-minute, uh, 30-second in- Instagram clips.

Donnell Rawlings 1:39:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:39:29 They don't want train wrecks to be their primary thing that they're listening to when they're in traffic on the way to work.

Donnell Rawlings 1:39:35 But the people that host these podcasts now, like, I think people go on these podcasts now and like this, "Ah, this is gonna be clickbait."

Joe Rogan 1:39:42 Some of them.

Donnell Rawlings 1:39:42 "We're gonna go viral." Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39:43 Yeah, but that's... They're not that talented. That's why they're doing it, is 'cause that's their only method of getting attention. If they were entertaining and interesting and fascinating, then their podcast would be about that.

Donnell Rawlings 1:39:58 You know what?

Joe Rogan 1:39:58 It's all in what you're trying to focus on. What I try to focus on in my podcast is, who do I want to talk to? I never have someone on and go, "Oh, this would be great. It'd be very controversial. People will fucking hate him. It'll be crazy. They'll say wild shit." I never do that. My podcast is only about, who do I wanna talk to? That's why I have a lot of people on that aren't even remotely famous, because they're interesting.

Donnell Rawlings 1:40:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:40:22 I find them interesting. I find what the book they wrote interesting, the documentary they made interesting. I wanna know something about them.

Donnell Rawlings 1:40:28 I-

Joe Rogan 1:40:28 It stimulates my curiosity.

Donnell Rawlings 1:40:29 Do you think that there's gonna be a, [coughs] a shift? Do you think that these salacious interviews, these interviews with the provocateur-

Joe Rogan 1:40:37 I-

Donnell Rawlings 1:40:37 You think that-

Joe Rogan 1:40:38 ... don't think about it.

Donnell Rawlings 1:40:39 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:40:39 That's my key.

Donnell Rawlings 1:40:40 I know what's so funny-

Joe Rogan 1:40:41 Don't think about it.

Donnell Rawlings 1:40:42 I, I wanna say this. You know what's funny about what you said? That I was with Dave a while ago, and he echoed the exact same thing, and I was having this conversation with him. [chuckles] He said, "D, I don't even think about that shit."

Joe Rogan 1:40:53 Yeah, don't think about it.

Donnell Rawlings 1:40:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:54 There's other things to think about. This is... I, I've said this too many times. If people have heard this before, I'm sorry. Think of your focus and your attention like a number. Think of you have, like, 100 points in a day to spend on things. If you spend 30 of those points thinking about haters, or 30% of those thinking about bitter people, 30% thinking about other people that are doing better than you, that's 30% that you robbed from the 100% that you have to focus on your life. I have things to do, man. I have a family, I have friends, I have loved ones, I have interests, I have hobbies, I have comedy and podcasts and the UFC and all these different things that I like to do, and I think about those things. I don't think about negative, stupid things with people that have bitter, angry minds, that are concentrating on other people's success and trying to tear them down all the time. Because they're trying to tear them down all the time 'cause they compare themselves to them, and they don't like how they stack up. They don't like the fact that that person's doing better. They don't like the fact that person's more successful. So they try to take things either out of context, or they try to misrepresent who that person is. They try to change public perception of that person to try to drag that person down, and it's transparent. The reason why it doesn't work is 'cause people inherently know what you're trying to do. It might get people, "Oh, there's beef! Oh, there's beef." Those are simple-minded people that you're always gonna attract, but you're not gonna change people's opinions of things.

Donnell Rawlings 1:42:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:42:18 It's, it's a trick. It's a trap that you're playing on yourself. It's a waste of your precious resources. You only have so much time in the day. My time I spend on things that I think are interesting or beneficial or things that excite my curiosity, and I think that is the way I like to live my life. Now, if you like to live your life constantly engaged in beefs and being filled with anxiety and stress, and you wanna do that, okay. But those are bitter fucking people. I don't wanna be a bitter person.

Donnell Rawlings 1:42:47 In another life, could you have been a therapist?

Joe Rogan 1:42:49 Uh, well, I majored in psychology for the brief amount of time that I was in college. That was what I was interested in. But it was... I was doing that because I was fighting at the time, and I was trying to figure out how to manage my mind. So I was trying to figure out the inner workings of the human psyche.

Donnell Rawlings 1:43:05 Do you think... I know this is, I'm not... Do you think your success made you a m- a more calm person, to not give a fuck?

Joe Rogan 1:43:17 Well, it certainly helps, right? You don't have to give a fuck if you have enough money that you could just, like, disappear off into the sunset and never have to worry about money. 'Cause a lot of people are always worried about money, and so you're always constantly in this state of anxiety of trying to get more. That helps, but it's also, it's like there's other things in life. I concentrate on my loved ones. I concentrate on my friends. I concentrate on things I enjoy doing, on fun. This, this life is short, man. You and I are 58 years old. We're more than halfway dead. Why would you spend time concentrating on people you don't like? Like, it's one thing if someone's wronging you. It's one thing if you find out you have a business partner who's been stealing money, or you have someone who's, uh, lying about you-

Donnell Rawlings 1:43:57 Shout-out to, uh, uh, uh, Dane Cook.

Joe Rogan 1:43:59 [chuckles]

Donnell Rawlings 1:44:00 No, I'm just saying.

Joe Rogan 1:44:01 His brother.

Donnell Rawlings 1:44:01 No, no, I know, he-

Joe Rogan 1:44:02 His own brother stole from him.

Donnell Rawlings 1:44:03 I know Dane is like this-

Joe Rogan 1:44:04 It's crazy!

Donnell Rawlings 1:44:04 ... yeah, the fuck?! Yeah, it's very, very interesting. And I'm at a place right now... I was, um, I was with Jon Hamm, right, San Francisco, and I had just did a show with Dave, and it was interesting. He said something to me. He's in the back, and he's with his wife, and we're kicking it, and he used to come out to summer camp and everything, hang out with us. I'm not gonna say we're, like, super friends, but we have mutual respect for each other. And it was interesting 'cause we're in the green room-... and this is after I had just slayed this audience or whatever, right? And, and I'm feeling good. And he said, "Donnell," he said, "What is it that you really wanna do?" He said, "What is it that you want?" I said, "What kind of question?" He said, "No, I mean, what is it, what, is it TV? Is it a TV show? Is it movies?" I was like, "Don, I'm doing exactly what I wanna do." For me to be able to wake up, not have to work for anybody, call my own shots, make a fair wage, take care of my families, enjoy my friends and everything, and it's me connecting with a God-given talent, anything else is a bonus.

1:45:05 Yes.

1:45:05 I don't look at it like I need the private jet and everything. Certain things, you're like, "You know, that would be nice," but I just look at what this life has given me, and I'm appreciative of that. I know so many people that, of my, uh, class, whatever, that aren't doing nearly as well as I am, or even the ones that are, that don't mean that they're happy. You know what I'm saying? So when he asked me that question, I didn't think anything bad of it. I was like this, I don't get caught up on looking at somebody, they got this, they got that. I like this: Am I happy? Am I comfortable? Do I get to do what I want? So whether... I tell people all this all the time, whether I get another film opportunity, whether I get another TV show or whatever, or any of that, I'm living what some people's dreams are.

1:45:50 Yes!

1:45:50 And it's not my dream, it's my reality.

1:45:53 Yes.

1:45:54 And I also had to realize, this is so easy for us to do. You can be so connected with somebody, and even with, um, my situation, with my connection with Dave and everything, I'm a huge fan of Dave. He's given me great opportunities and everything, but at some point in my life, I had to say, "You can't be caught up in somebody else's dream so much that you forget your realities." And my real- my reality is, whether I'm alongside of him or whether I'm doing it, I gotta continue to be Donnell Rawlings. I gotta continue to support my family. I gotta continue to thing, do things that I do, and it's so easy. You... It's so easy for me to get caught up, I'm like, "I'm rolling with Dave. We own a jet. We doing this type of shit." But then I'll lose focus on who I am, and, and I realize for me, and my career continues to go, when I know how to make that separation. I do have-

1:46:40 Yeah, but the thing is, even when you're caught up with Dave, you still love him, and you don't hate him at all.

1:46:45 Right.

1:46:45 You're not, you're not jealous of him.

1:46:47 Not at all.

1:46:47 You might get caught up in the wave because you're hanging out with one of the greatest comics that's ever lived, but it doesn't mean that it's a negative.

1:46:53 And you know another thing, let me add to that. And I'm not blowing my own horn or whatever. Like you said, "One of the greatest comedians that ever lived," right? If a person had a conversation with Dave Chappelle... People can say whatever they want. I'm worrying about what people think. If you ask Dave who is in his top five comedians, my name's gonna come up. So as much as people, they always talking about... They, they always try to pin me, like, blah, blah, this and other thing. I respect the fact that I- he respects me, I respect him. When we work together, we push each other, we make each other, whatever people wanna say, we make each other better. And what other, other people don't understand is that, like, he's, like, truly my friend. You know what I mean? It's not like I just work on his show, he's my friend. And even when I... Some of my fondest memories, especially when I come here, is when we was doing those fucking shows.

Donnell Rawlings 1:47:44 Yeah.

1:47:44 When we was doing shit nobody was doing-

1:47:46 When we were doing those lockdown shows-

1:47:48 Man.

1:47:48 Ooh, that was fun!

1:47:49 Yo, it was so-

1:47:50 That was wild times.

1:47:51 It was, it was... It's al- it was already, we already have a community. We all have mutual respect for each other. But the thing that made that so special, wasn't nobody doing this shit.

1:48:00 Right.

1:48:00 That's what made it... And, and, and it really, one thing about the pandemic, it made you appreciate life a lot more than before the pandemic.

1:48:09 Yeah, it made you appreciate freedom.

1:48:11 Freedom.

1:48:12 The ability to do shows.

1:48:13 Yeah.

1:48:14 Remember we did those shows outside, and everybody was wearing a mask? It was so stupid.

1:48:18 But we... It did, but we, uh, uh-

1:48:19 And they all got tested, too.

1:48:21 We got... They was... I, I was- I had so much fun during the [chuckles] pandemic, I was almost embarrassed to show the pictures I wanted to show, like faceless shit. [laughing]

1:48:30 [laughing]

1:48:30 Yo-

1:48:31 No mask!

1:48:32 ... we would, we would take the pictures-

1:48:33 Yeah

1:48:33 ... and people was like this, "Look at him, he could kill my grandmother."

1:48:36 Yeah.

1:48:36 I'm like, "All right, first of all, you did it. Dave did it." I was like, people was like this, "Oh, it must be nice to have rich friends that have testing machines." I was like, "You're absolutely right. It is.

1:48:45 [laughing]

1:48:45 It's beautiful. It is the most amazing shit ever.

1:48:49 [laughing]

1:48:49 Dave Chappelle raped my nose for two summers in a row, when it- when we were doing the shows in the, in the cornfields and shit. But this is what people don't understand: He took the opportunity, that village of Yellow Springs, he made it as safe as it could be. Like, any place we would go, hotels, that, everybody had an opportunity to get... Everybody had an opportunity to get tested. And I remember, this was very interesting, when the bubble... We did one, this with Bob Saget, RIP. We were doing these shows, and I think that at, before Bob passed away, when he came out to Yellow Springs and was hanging out with Dave and us and everything, it gave him some incentive to wanna go back on the road and do... He was just got really excited about doing it again. We, we, we did, like, 55 shows. The summer was over. The run was clear. We had no positives or anything. Dave extended the show another week, and that week was when the bubble popped, right? And now everybody's, like, freaking out, like, "Oh, my God!" These same women that was, people was coming out there when they was getting flown out in jets. They wasn't getting traffic, but Dave created an environment. He wanted his friends around. They was... We was going to restaurants. We would have the whole spot. We was just doing all this stuff. Nobody was thinking about the possible consequences of that. And I remember this one girl was like, "Oh, my God, I don't even know why I'm here." Then I looked at Dave, I was like: "Yo, man, damn, we almost made it, man, through" He was like, "Donnell, it's gonna be okay." He said, "You gotta realize, this is the reason why we test." When we first got our first positive, had we not been testing, it could have been crazy.

1:50:26 And we got a first positive because dudes went to do somebody else's podcast, and they didn't test. Remember that?

1:50:31 Yep, I remember that.

1:50:32 Yeah. [laughing]

1:50:32 That was the da- I remember that, because-

1:50:34 [laughing]

1:50:34 ... It wa- I remember that, uh, scene. It was so funny. Yeah, that was here.

1:50:38 Yeah.

1:50:39 And, um, it was like-... I, I, something was different, because we had one positive, and the... You remember that backstage was-

Joe Rogan 1:50:45 Uh-huh

Donnell Rawlings 1:50:46 ... packed out, right?

Joe Rogan 1:50:46 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:50:46 It started getting lower and lower, right?

Joe Rogan 1:50:48 Yeah. [chuckles]

Donnell Rawlings 1:50:49 It was basically, like, me, Cipha Sounds, somebody else was in the green room, right? And then Big J came, that's one of my friends, good friends. Big J came back, and he had this look on his face [chuckles] like, "It's over," right? And he came in there, and I looked, I said, "Boss man got it?" He's like, "Yep," right? And another thing Dave could've did, this is why I respect his character, he could've been... At that time, he could've just been in a mask, went on stage, went back out. He canceled the show. But the funniest shit, it's a whole, at Stubbs, room is sold out, right? And then Cena comes back, and Cena was like, "Um, I need you to go out there and tell people [chuckles] that the show is canceled," right? I said, "You don't need me to do that shit, nigga. "Because the minute I... It's one thing... If I go out there, people gonna be like, 'Show's starting!'" Right? And as a comedian, I'm not gonna not tell jokes. And then I'm like, "Oh, yeah, Dave not gonna show up." But that was... The crazy thing about that, everybody at the Line Hotel, they was making jokes, Joe. They called it Corona- uh, COVID Row, 'cause we had, like, the whole floor- h- had the whole floor, floor locked down, right? And everybody on our team got it. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:51:56 [laughs]

Donnell Rawlings 1:51:56 But it felt like an old school chicken pox party, you know what I'm saying?

Joe Rogan 1:51:59 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:52:00 It's like, we got it, we got it. But when I tell you, man, what we did, like, ev- everything was like, "Okay, make sure you had your vitamins," all that type of shit. But the beauty of it was, we was like, you know, people was testing out, like, eight or nine days, right? So we thought we was gonna leave. After a while, we was like... I was like, "Wait a minute, the next room was gonna be in 10 days." And for some reason, everybody went back to being negative. We closed [chuckles] and did more shows, then we got the fuck up out of here. But it was a beautiful time, man.

Joe Rogan 1:52:26 It was a beautiful time.

Donnell Rawlings 1:52:27 It was a fun time.

Joe Rogan 1:52:28 It was a time to be alive.

Donnell Rawlings 1:52:28 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:52:28 It was a fun time, but it was crazy.

Donnell Rawlings 1:52:31 And then we did that, what that fucking joint we did, uh, it was in Tacoma?

Joe Rogan 1:52:36 Mm-hmm.

Donnell Rawlings 1:52:36 Tacoma.

Joe Rogan 1:52:36 The SuperDome. That was wild. That was twen-

Donnell Rawlings 1:52:40 27,000, 25,000.

Joe Rogan 1:52:41 Whatever it was, we broke the Tacoma Dome record. [laughs]

Donnell Rawlings 1:52:44 I never been in a place where the laughter was so hard, it felt like helicopters was about to-

Joe Rogan 1:52:50 It was crazy.

Donnell Rawlings 1:52:51 It was crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:52:51 It was crazy.

Donnell Rawlings 1:52:52 This is what I respect about what you guys did. You got people saying they, they doing arenas and shit, but normally-

Joe Rogan 1:52:57 But that was pre-COVID, brother.

Donnell Rawlings 1:52:59 It was pre-COVID?

Joe Rogan 1:53:00 Yeah, that was pre-COVID-

Donnell Rawlings 1:53:01 But what I will say-

Joe Rogan 1:53:01 ... before everything popped off

Donnell Rawlings 1:53:03 ... uh, what I will say about a real arena show, you got the arena show where a quarter of the venue is being s- used for stage, and they're... Right? So it ain't the true capacity.

Joe Rogan 1:53:13 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:53:14 But the shows you motherfuckers was doing, it was, it was in the round.

Joe Rogan 1:53:18 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 1:53:19 I-

Joe Rogan 1:53:19 Well, the wildest thing was walking through the crowd to get to the stage.

Donnell Rawlings 1:53:22 Man!

Joe Rogan 1:53:22 Those were crazy times. [chuckles]

Donnell Rawlings 1:53:24 You, you, you've experienced this shit, of that walk from, from the-

Joe Rogan 1:53:27 Yeah

Donnell Rawlings 1:53:28 ... UFC shit. Man, I'm so grateful for your f- you guys' friendship and everything. And for me, it was so special for me, because I didn't sell a ticket. Nobody else, no opener sold... You and Dave sold those tickets, right? But the best feeling for me, Joe, was when I go out, and DJ Drama be like, "You seen him on HBO's The Wire. You seen him on BMF," whatever. But simple line, but you fell in love with, "Ask Larry, Chappelle's Show," and them people fucking go crazy. I don't give a fuck if you've ever been in a fistfight in your life, [chuckles] when you come through them tunnels-

Joe Rogan 1:54:00 Yeah

Donnell Rawlings 1:54:00 ... you, you doing this shit right here, you feel like Tyson. Like, "Just give me a robe.

Joe Rogan 1:54:03 [laughs]

Donnell Rawlings 1:54:03 Just give me a towel. I'm about to go beat these motherfuckers up." And every show we had, there was no room for being okay. You had to be on your game every time.

Joe Rogan 1:54:14 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:54:14 It was fun times.

Joe Rogan 1:54:15 It was a good time.

Donnell Rawlings 1:54:17 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:54:17 Well, that was, uh, when all that COVID shit went down with me, when CNN turned my face green-

Donnell Rawlings 1:54:22 Yep

Joe Rogan 1:54:22 ... that was because of a Nashville show that we were doing, that we had to cancel.

Donnell Rawlings 1:54:26 Yeah, I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 1:54:26 That's what that was. Yeah, we were supposed to do a show that weekend, and I got COVID the previous week, and I was doing an arena with Tony in Florida.

Donnell Rawlings 1:54:35 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:54:35 And I got COVID in Florida, and then I made that video on, like, a Tuesday or a Wednesday. It was, like, the third day after I got COVID, when I got over it, and I was like, "You know, I feel fine, but we have to cancel the shows this weekend."

Donnell Rawlings 1:54:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:54:48 And that's when all the shit went down, 'cause I took ivermectin. That was up... Well, that was, that was those arena shows we were doing.

Donnell Rawlings 1:54:53 Oh, yeah, I remember that, yeah. That was like, "Oh, he has the answer to everything."

Joe Rogan 1:54:55 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:54:56 Yo, if you don't have the answer, at least he's fucking trying to find it. It's so interesting-

Joe Rogan 1:54:59 Well, the, I... Whether or not I had the answer, the crazy thing is, I was better.

Donnell Rawlings 1:55:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:04 I was already better, and they, they t- they turned my face green on CNN.

Donnell Rawlings 1:55:09 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:55:09 Like, we got to see how crazy the media really is. Like, they didn't wanna hear nothing but, "You have to take this vaccine-"

Donnell Rawlings 1:55:16 And you have to do that. And if-

Joe Rogan 1:55:17 ... "And if you didn't take this vaccine, you're a part of the problem."

Donnell Rawlings 1:55:19 It's so... The- I just don't under- as, as devastating as that time was, uh- [sneezes] Excuse me. I'm just... How is it just, like, [sniffs] fucking over now? Is it herd immunity? How is it just, like-

Joe Rogan 1:55:33 Yeah

Donnell Rawlings 1:55:33 ... it almost like-

Joe Rogan 1:55:34 It's herd immunity.

Donnell Rawlings 1:55:35 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 1:55:35 It's, it's... Yeah. It's also, you know, everybody who got it, got it. You got i- immunity because of it. And then also, whatever variants are still left, they're significantly diminished. That's how viruses generally-

Donnell Rawlings 1:55:47 It's like a cold strain now, right?

Joe Rogan 1:55:48 Yes.

Donnell Rawlings 1:55:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:49 Well, that's how viruses generally go. They become more transmissible, but less potent-

Donnell Rawlings 1:55:54 Right

Joe Rogan 1:55:54 ... over time. Yeah, and that's what happened.

Donnell Rawlings 1:55:56 I'm gonna tell you, there was a time, though, man, I, I even said, "Man, maybe..." It was just something about how people c- uh, got along with each other. I was like, "We should do, like, once a year, just have a week of just lockdown." [laughs] Yo, just so you can get into... Man, I, it, it makes-

Joe Rogan 1:56:11 It makes you appreciate freedom, that's for sure.

Donnell Rawlings 1:56:12 It made me appreciate nature, bruh.

Joe Rogan 1:56:14 Mm-hmm.

Donnell Rawlings 1:56:15 I d- I bought a fucking house in Yellow Spring, because of that. I was like, "You know what? Trees, woods." [snaps fingers] I don't know if the streets can handle this, but I became a bird watcher, bruh. I watch bird... I watch birds! [laughs] You know what that does to my street credit?

Joe Rogan 1:56:31 What?

Donnell Rawlings 1:56:32 To know the difference between a cardinal and a blue jay?

Joe Rogan 1:56:35 Not bad.

Donnell Rawlings 1:56:36 It's not the most g- listen, [imitates birds chirping]

Joe Rogan 1:56:41 [laughs]

Donnell Rawlings 1:56:42 [imitates birds chirping] That's a blue jay call. It's like, I can't be in the street talking about [imitates birds chirping] .... it was good shit.

Joe Rogan 1:56:49 If you can't appreciate nature, that's whatever. That's a bu- bullshit narrative.

Donnell Rawlings 1:56:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56:54 That's ridiculous.

Donnell Rawlings 1:56:55 I didn't... Here's the thing: I didn't crash out today, didn't crash out. I know people think I'm the crash out king. It's not that. Sometimes, I just need to talk-

Joe Rogan 1:57:04 You mean on this show today?

Donnell Rawlings 1:57:06 Yeah. What, did I?

Joe Rogan 1:57:07 No.

1:57:08 No. No, you d- you definitely accused Jamie of wearing a leather jacket today.

Donnell Rawlings 1:57:10 Jamie did have a leather jacket. He had a leather jacket on, man, and I think he brushed his eyebrows, too. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:57:17 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:57:17 It was everything. I was like, "I've never seen this sexy side of Jamie." He had, like, a British accent. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:57:25 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:57:25 He was like, "I think you want a book your own show," and so, eh, I was like, "Who is- "

Joe Rogan 1:57:29 He brushed his eyebrows. [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:57:30 I was like, "Who the fuck is this person, man?" It was something different.

Joe Rogan 1:57:35 We w- we definitely went through something that most people will never experience in their life.

Donnell Rawlings 1:57:40 Nope.

Joe Rogan 1:57:41 And, and most previous generations never experienced it, having a n- a nationwide, worldwide pandemic that everybody freaked out, and we didn't. Not only did we didn't freak out, we did shows, we had a good time, we hung out together. Those after-parties when we'd go to The Line-

Donnell Rawlings 1:57:56 Oh, my God

Joe Rogan 1:57:56 ... you had a DJ, and we would laugh and laugh.

Donnell Rawlings 1:57:59 Man.

Joe Rogan 1:57:59 We would laugh till 2:00, 3:00 in the morning.

Donnell Rawlings 1:58:01 I'd... You know, I'd... What, uh, the girl I was dating-

Joe Rogan 1:58:04 We had so much fun

Donnell Rawlings 1:58:05 ... Girl I was dating at the time, dude, she couldn't believe this. She was like... I would be like this, "So what do you do?" I was like, "Well, I was at The Line, kicking it with Dave and Joe." "What were y'all doing?" "Just talking and laughing till 3:30 in the morning." [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:58:16 Just laughing.

Donnell Rawlings 1:58:16 They was like, "Get the fuck out of here! You was fucking."

Joe Rogan 1:58:19 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:58:19 No, no, I wasn't. We was just on some brother shit. It was just-

Joe Rogan 1:58:24 We had so much fun

Donnell Rawlings 1:58:24 ... it was really good. It was really good.

Joe Rogan 1:58:25 And we, we also realized how special it was that we could do this while the whole world was locked down.

Donnell Rawlings 1:58:30 Yep. I'm telling you, I was embarrassed to show pictures. My mother would call me, "You better be careful out there." I'm like, "Man, I'm getting tested." We got tested more than probably anybody in the country, and now it's still testing-

Joe Rogan 1:58:39 I got tested every day-

Donnell Rawlings 1:58:40 And-

Joe Rogan 1:58:40 ... because I was doing podcasts through the whole thing.

Donnell Rawlings 1:58:42 I did your show during that one time.

Joe Rogan 1:58:44 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:58:44 And then we didn't... I sat down, and before I got the results, the last time I was here [laughing] -

Joe Rogan 1:58:50 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:58:50 ... you was like, "Did he get the test?" I'm like, "Uh..." [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:58:54 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:58:54 I'm like, "Just please don't come in here," like, "Get this motherfucker out of here!" But we did.

Joe Rogan 1:58:58 Well, we definitely had a couple people that tested positive. We had to get them out.

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:02 But-

Joe Rogan 1:59:02 And I tested positive once.

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:03 But the thing about it, to making those, taking those precautions, you can isolate it-

Joe Rogan 1:59:07 Yep

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:08 ... you knew where it came, and you shut it down. That's one thing. If you're not doing that, it's all over the place.

Joe Rogan 1:59:12 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:12 Just think about it. If, if... Imagine if Jamie would've got COVID, then we would've never seen his sexy side now.

Joe Rogan 1:59:18 Jamie got COVID. He got COVID before anybody.

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:59:20 He got COVID really early on, when there was no vaccine, no treatment, no nothing. He had to take a whole week off.

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:27 [coughs] Um, maybe that's why he has the attitude that he has. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:59:31 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:32 Yo, y'all getting all the sexy-

Joe Rogan 1:59:33 Well, we did the Kanye podcast. You, you had COVID that week, right?

1:59:37 Yeah, yeah.

1:59:37 Yeah. Yeah, he missed the Kanye podcast.

1:59:40 I missed Kanye.

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:40 Yeah, but I'm, I'm sorry, Jamie, if you thought I said anything that was kind of disrespectful to your character or your-

Joe Rogan 1:59:44 Well, it was just totally false.

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:47 No, it wasn't. I'm telling you-

Joe Rogan 1:59:48 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:48 ... that fucking ponytail, I don't know what the fuck he did about it that time.

Joe Rogan 1:59:52 Like a Steven Seagal ponytail-

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:53 Yeah, and it was-

Joe Rogan 1:59:53 Like straight back

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:54 ... And not only that, but he put his hair back like this.

Joe Rogan 1:59:57 Mm-hmm.

Donnell Rawlings 1:59:58 Almost like the-

Joe Rogan 1:59:59 Like Diddy

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:00 ... like a Diddy party.

Joe Rogan 2:00:00 Oh, yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:00 That's how he started Diddy parties.

Joe Rogan 2:00:02 Oiled up?

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:03 Yeah, oil- uh, I don't want to say that, 'cause I was... Never mind.

Joe Rogan 2:00:06 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:06 I never went to a Diddy party. I have a photo, but I never went to a Diddy party.

Joe Rogan 2:00:09 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:10 Jesus Christ.

Joe Rogan 2:00:12 Yeah, it's like, I think people are gonna be wiser if something like that happens again. I don't, I don't think-

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:17 Could it ever happen again?

Joe Rogan 2:00:18 Yeah, 100%.

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:18 I don't... It could?

Joe Rogan 2:00:19 Yeah, 100%. There's a lot of people that think they engineered that whole thing, and they wanted it to happen. 'Cause the largest transfer of, upward transfer of wealth in human history.

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:29 So many companies get-

Joe Rogan 2:00:29 Small businesses went down-

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:31 Look at, look what it did-

Joe Rogan 2:00:31 Big businesses got... Made more money.

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:33 Look what it did to Zoom.

Joe Rogan 2:00:35 Yep, Zoom took off.

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:36 Zoom, I remember Zoom, 'cause, um, I was... I, I had a show in Naples or whatever, and I met this doctor that he wanted me to, uh, be on his podcast. And I was like, "How are we gonna do it?" He said, "We can do it by Zoom." This was when it was only, like, for, like, business people.

Joe Rogan 2:00:49 Mm-hmm.

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:50 It was really, like, the nerdy thing.

Joe Rogan 2:00:51 Yeah, that's what it used to be, yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 2:00:53 It used to be, but the pandemic, it blew it up. It was like, now Zoom is like, that's the best way... You don't wanna talk to somebody on the phone, they call you, "Oh, I'm on a Zoom right now."

Joe Rogan 2:01:02 Mm-hmm.

Donnell Rawlings 2:01:02 It is so, like, in everybody's household, and that just blew up. So many businesses did the same thing.

Joe Rogan 2:01:06 Is anybody using that anymore?

Donnell Rawlings 2:01:08 Zoom?

Joe Rogan 2:01:09 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 2:01:09 They use it for an excuse not to talk to somebody. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:01:11 [laughing]

2:01:11 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 2:01:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:12 But do, do they do Zoom podcasts anymore? Do people do Zoom podcasts?

2:01:16 Yeah.

2:01:16 I never hear that term.

2:01:18 It's sort of-

2:01:18 It used to be things like, "Oh, we're gonna do it on Zoom." I don't hear that anymore.

2:01:21 A few other platforms exist now. I don't even think people discuss it, but like-

Donnell Rawlings 2:01:24 Yeah, they had one. What was that, Clubhouse, whatever? All of these things.

Joe Rogan 2:01:27 Oh, yeah, Clubhouse.

Donnell Rawlings 2:01:28 Clubhouse was popping.

Joe Rogan 2:01:29 Clubhouse is a big one. That was a big one, where people were essentially doing podcasts. Like, anybody could just, like-

Donnell Rawlings 2:01:35 Just talk shit

Joe Rogan 2:01:35 ... chime in and talk shit.

Donnell Rawlings 2:01:36 Shit was getting, like, a million followers in three days and shit. Like, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:39 Oh, yeah, there was a lot of that, and a lot of people thought that that was gonna keep going, like, "Clubhouse is gonna be the new thing." I'm like, "This is just bad podcasting."

Donnell Rawlings 2:01:46 And it's when, it's what... There was only, uh, so many things. That, that, um, that battle, the versus battles that they do now, and then when they have, like... It's mostly, it's been hip hop and R&B. I think it was... Who was it? Um, it was, uh, um... Damn, Swizz Beatz and Timbaland, I think. They started this thing during the pandemic. It was versus, right, where you have a artist versus another artist in, like, a competitive type of situation. They didn't win anything, but it was just entertaining for everybody. And that went from, like... It was so low-level, like, people was in front of their computers. It was freezing up and everything, but it was what everybody was doing. Now, that's, like, one of the biggest things now. They did one at Madison Square Gardens, so, like, it's a big thing now, when you wanna... It's just like a competition. Like, you got... I think that they had Cash Money and No Limit Records, but it's very... I don't see no white versus, but it's a popular thing, and it started because of, um, the pandemic.

Joe Rogan 2:02:39 Well, so many businesses started during the pandemic, 'cause a lot of people got laid off, so they started their own business. A lot of online businesses started. A lot of people quit their jobs, 'cause they realized, "Look, they could just take this shit away from me at any minute. Why am I doing something that I hate when I thought there was security in it? There's no security in it. I'm gonna start my own business."

Donnell Rawlings 2:02:55 Also, even, like, you are, you're an example of, um, um, uh, of what happens when d- when you finally realize that, um, you don't need Hollywood the way it used to be.

Joe Rogan 2:03:06 No.

Donnell Rawlings 2:03:06 You know?

Joe Rogan 2:03:06 Well, we figured that out a long time ago.

Donnell Rawlings 2:03:09 Yeah, but that, that-

Joe Rogan 2:03:09 We figured that out when the podcast started kicking off.... in, like, the early 2010s, I realized that. I was like, "This is- I don't need TV shows anymore." We figured that out in, like, 2013, 2014.

Donnell Rawlings 2:03:22 And Hollywood is not like... It used to be, I'm ve- I'm a very old school guy, but I remember when, when I first started, you couldn't make it in this business. You had to be in New York or LA.

Joe Rogan 2:03:35 Yep.

Donnell Rawlings 2:03:35 There was no producers going to, if they wasn't going to Toledo, Ohio, there was no way.

Joe Rogan 2:03:40 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 2:03:40 This was big time-

Joe Rogan 2:03:41 Well, there was no comedy communities-

Donnell Rawlings 2:03:43 No

Joe Rogan 2:03:43 ... outside of New York and LA.

Donnell Rawlings 2:03:44 No, not at all.

Joe Rogan 2:03:45 Not a real community. There might've been, like, a good club that had some... Like, Denver always had, like, good opening acts-

Donnell Rawlings 2:03:52 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:03:52 ... good, good, good community.

Donnell Rawlings 2:03:53 Comedy Works was responsible for that.

Joe Rogan 2:03:55 But it, it wasn't like a real hub like Austin is now, and that wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for the pandemic.

Donnell Rawlings 2:04:02 Yeah, and you-

Joe Rogan 2:04:02 People wouldn't have moved.

Donnell Rawlings 2:04:03 They wouldn't have moved.

Joe Rogan 2:04:04 No.

Donnell Rawlings 2:04:04 And you brought a whole community here. As much as ... Th- th- this place was always big for music, whatever, but I b- I mean, there's no way anybody cannot agree with, like, what you did and what you made it appealing to a lot of people, is that you could go somewhere else, get a better quality of life-

Joe Rogan 2:04:21 Yeah

Donnell Rawlings 2:04:22 ... and everything, like-

Joe Rogan 2:04:22 Lower cost of living, better quality of life, no traffic, nicer people-

Donnell Rawlings 2:04:26 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:04:26 ... and no Hollywood bullshit. The problem with the... LA is always going to be poisoned by the, the idea of going there to become famous.

Donnell Rawlings 2:04:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:04:37 That whole idea was, it was permeated in the culture of LA, and that fame was, like, the number one commodity.

Donnell Rawlings 2:04:44 But back then, it was, that was the case.

Joe Rogan 2:04:46 Yeah, it was the case.

Donnell Rawlings 2:04:47 With producers-

Joe Rogan 2:04:47 But the-

Donnell Rawlings 2:04:48 Go ahead, I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 2:04:48 But the problem is, that's bad for art. It's bad for your ability to produce shit. I mean, you got great comics that came out of LA, but that was in spite of what LA had to offer.

Donnell Rawlings 2:04:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:04:59 It wasn't because of. Whereas Austin, like, the main reason people come here, first of all, is Kill Tony. Because like you said, Kill Tony is one of the rare places where you can be a comic that's been doing comedy three, four years, I mean, even just start now, but you got some talent, you could have a fucking career.

Donnell Rawlings 2:05:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:05:17 Like, a real career, and it'll launch. Like, look, you got Cam Patterson, who's on SNL right now. You got all these people like, uh, William Montgomery, David Lucas. They're, they're killing it on the road, selling out everywhere they go. Ari Matty, these guy- I mean, they have a real career now because of Kill Tony.

Donnell Rawlings 2:05:31 But you know, another thing that they don't understand is, like, this is what I say, and I, I usually use you as an example. Whenever you hear about somebody saying that they wanna do a podcast, the first thing they certain thing is like, "I wanna be Joe Rogan." And I said this before, nobody wanted to be Joe Rogan fucking 25 years ago. They didn't wanna put the work in. They wanna see the accolades, the fortune you've built. They see that part, but nobody sees the hard work. Even with Kill Tony, the, the fact that during the pandemic, when he could've let the whole platform just fall apart, like, "We don't know when we're gonna do it," he dug deeper and figured out a way, "I'm just gonna continue to do it." Nobody, they- nobody ever respects the journey.

Joe Rogan 2:06:14 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 2:06:14 And if you think about it, Joe, and I'm... You probably the same way. Most successful people, and I know some very, very wealthy people, right? And when they talk about their career, whatever, they hardly ever talk about the yacht. They never ever talk about the, the fucking mansion they got in Paris. You know what they talk about? "It was just me and my wife, and we drove a Toyota, you know, a Toyota Corolla, and we was like, we was down to our last 10 bucks, and she did this..." That's the most interesting part of the story for most successful people, and people don't understand that.

Joe Rogan 2:06:45 Right, they only think about where you got to-

Donnell Rawlings 2:06:47 Right

Joe Rogan 2:06:47 ... and, "I wanna get to there, too."

Donnell Rawlings 2:06:48 They wanna skip-

Joe Rogan 2:06:49 Yeah

Donnell Rawlings 2:06:49 ... everything.

Joe Rogan 2:06:50 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 2:06:50 I have people right now, "I wanna be, like, stand-up." I'm like, "All right, well..." "No, when I was doing HBO's The Wire," right? This guy I knew, I grew up with, he was like... This motherfucker said, "Yo, D, what's the number to The Wire? I wanna call them. I wanna be on The Wire." [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:07:06 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 2:07:06 Like there's a Wire... "Hey, is this David Simon? Yeah, I could be Omar."

Joe Rogan 2:07:13 Uh...

Donnell Rawlings 2:07:13 They don't... I was like, and guess what? If I knew the number to The Wire-

Joe Rogan 2:07:18 I wouldn't give it to you

Donnell Rawlings 2:07:19 ... I'm not giving it to you!

Joe Rogan 2:07:19 I'm not giving it to you. [chuckles]

Donnell Rawlings 2:07:19 I want you to get that busy signal. [imitates busy signal]

Joe Rogan 2:07:23 [chuckles]

Donnell Rawlings 2:07:23 That's what it's... Nobody ever wants to respect the grind, and they all- everybody wants the rewards of the grind.

Joe Rogan 2:07:30 Well, it's not-

Donnell Rawlings 2:07:31 But they can't

Joe Rogan 2:07:31 ... everybody. It's just people that are l- they're missing it. They're not getting what it's all about. What's, what it's all... Like, Kill Tony's a great example of that. I was there in the early days of Kill Tony. When Kill, when Tony started out in 2013, there was no one in the crowd.

Donnell Rawlings 2:07:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:07:45 There was no one there. It was a small show. He'd have a few comedians, you know. I, I was doing it back before I was back at the Comedy Store, when I was still banned, so I was doing it from the Ice House.

Donnell Rawlings 2:07:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:07:56 And he didn't do it thinking it was gonna be the number one show in the world, and he was gonna be on Netflix, and... He did it because it was fun to do-

Donnell Rawlings 2:08:04 He loved it

Joe Rogan 2:08:04 ... and he wanted to do a great job, and he wanted to make it better every week, and he kept doing it and kept getting better at it. It's the same thing with this podcast.

Donnell Rawlings 2:08:11 And he put-

Joe Rogan 2:08:11 This podcast didn't make money for years. Didn't make any money for years.

Donnell Rawlings 2:08:15 But-

Joe Rogan 2:08:15 It cost money.

Donnell Rawlings 2:08:16 But the most successful people are the ones, like, even with, um, when I first started doing comedy, right, I never... You have some comedians that go out there like, "I wanna do comedy. I wanna get the money. I wanna get pussy off of it," right? When I first started, I never... The only thing I wanted to do, Joe, I wanted to be good. I was like this, "If I'm good, all those other things that are rewards to that, they will happen," but I had to be good first. And here's the thing that I think, especially when you have these, like, social media comedians or whatever, the thing that, the, the, the interesting thing about it, it's kind of hard to s- tell somebody to work on their craft when they getting all the perks of what the craft can present them at an early, early stage. It's hard to tell somebody that's only been doing it for two years, that's making $50,000 or $100,000 a month off of monetizing something, they're like this, "You need to get better." Hello? The bills are-

Joe Rogan 2:09:10 Well, they don't have to.

Donnell Rawlings 2:09:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:09:12 Like, do whatever the fuck you wanna do. If you just wanna do that, do that. And also, some of them are gonna figure it out anyway. Some of them are gonna figure out, "I'm, I'm not getting better. I'll get better. Let me work harder at it."

Donnell Rawlings 2:09:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:09:24 ... there's gonna be people that don't figure things out, no matter what you do in this life. There's gonna be a bunch of people that have a distorted perception of what success is all about and what you really want. It's always gonna be that.

Donnell Rawlings 2:09:35 What do you, what do you, what is... This is an interesting question: What is your definition of success?

Joe Rogan 2:09:41 Happiness. Happiness, and doing something that you enjoy doing, and something that's challenging-

Donnell Rawlings 2:09:46 So what is your definition of happiness?

Joe Rogan 2:09:48 Something you enjoy doing. Friendship, love, doing something I enjoy doing, doing it well, doing it better all the time, getting better at it, you know? I mean, you, you- and struggle. You're always gonna have some kind of a struggle, and that struggle, hopefully, is you trying to be better at the thing that you're doing.

Donnell Rawlings 2:10:05 You, what gives you... This is an interesting question: What gives you the incentive to always continue to want to perform? What gives you incentive to always want to do Joe Rogan and Friends, when you could just sit back and fucking just do whatever?

Joe Rogan 2:10:22 'Cause it's fun. It's fun. It's, first of all, the green room on Tuesday and Wednesday nights at the mothership, some of the funniest times I've ever had in my fucking life.

Donnell Rawlings 2:10:30 I can imagine.

Joe Rogan 2:10:30 It's so fun. We have so much fun there. There's Ron White there, and Shane Gillis, and Tony, and it's fun. It's, I mean, it's community. We-

Donnell Rawlings 2:10:39 It sounds like you're trying to get me to change my flight. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:10:40 We enjoy our times. Well, you wanna come on, you gotta show tomorrow.

Donnell Rawlings 2:10:42 I gotta come to Tuesday. [sighs]

Joe Rogan 2:10:45 What are you doing tomorrow? Come on, Donnell. What do you got going on tomorrow? When, where are you, headed back to Ohio?

Donnell Rawlings 2:10:52 No, I'm going to, uh, LA.

Joe Rogan 2:10:54 Do you have a show?

Donnell Rawlings 2:10:55 I got a son.

Joe Rogan 2:10:56 Oh, okay. Well, that's different.

Donnell Rawlings 2:10:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:10:57 That's more important.

Donnell Rawlings 2:10:58 But I can just give him some Roblox money, he'll be all right. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:11:01 [laughing] He'll be like, "Yo!-"

Donnell Rawlings 2:11:04 I'll see him Wednesday. I'll give you some Roblox money, he'll be cool. Let me see, I might, 'cause... Damn, I didn't- I wish I would've even thought about it before, but I might, I might do that, 'cause I haven't had that experience.

Joe Rogan 2:11:15 Oh, come down then, if you can.

Donnell Rawlings 2:11:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:17 If your son's cool with it, do it. If not, there's always another time.

Donnell Rawlings 2:11:20 I can bribe him.

Joe Rogan 2:11:21 We can look at another time.

Donnell Rawlings 2:11:21 And this is another thing about me being an older dad, like, my son is really an age, he could be my grandson. I don't have time to do all those, instill values and morals and shit. I'm like this, "Will Candy shut this motherfucker up?" [laughing]

Joe Rogan 2:11:35 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 2:11:35 Yo, I'm like, "Yo, let's go to McDonald's or whatever." But yeah, I'm-a see. I would definitely consider that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:39 Consider it.

Donnell Rawlings 2:11:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:41 But that's what I like. I mean, I'm just enjoying my life, and I like to do things that I find that are interesting and challenging, and I like to have conversations with interesting people, and I like the fact that people enjoy it still.

Donnell Rawlings 2:11:52 You know, when I first met you, or ne- you know, [sniffs] and I already, I already knew that, uh, you had the ultimate platform, right? And I never... This is me, and I don't know if this is what happened, but I was like, "I never wanna be like, 'Hey, Joe Rogan, I'm Donnell Rawlings from so-and-so.'" And the only respect I ever wanted to get from my peers and people that were doing it was, like, from the stage, you know? I always like... I was like, if we ever make the connection, I wanted to be off of, "Yo, this motherfucker is funny," first. Not just like, "Hey, you know I rock with Dave," or anything.

Joe Rogan 2:12:22 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 2:12:23 I think that that was what happened.

Joe Rogan 2:12:24 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 2:12:24 I used to spend time in it, and I never, never to- even to this day, I don't... You know, I just look at, like, the res- I just want people... You can respect me as a man and respect my character, whatever, but at the end of the day, what I love to do the most is stand-up. I want you to be like, "Yo, this motherfucker puts the work in," and then we can build everything off of that. That's the kind of respect I want to... Of, of, I want the respect from what I put in, the work I put in, and if people can acknowledge that, then that's what builds my relationship with you. It's built my relationships with all of these, all these guys. Barry, all of, all of these, all of these people that I fuck with now, it ain't because other than, anything other than like, "Yo, he's a dope comic," and then you can find out that I'm a good dude after that.

Joe Rogan 2:13:06 Yeah. It's that, and then after that, it's gotta be like, "Are you cool?"

Donnell Rawlings 2:13:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:13:12 "Is, is he fun to hang out with?"

Donnell Rawlings 2:13:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:13:14 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 2:13:14 Barry Katz said that one time. He said that in one of his podcasts. It's one of the things that separate, like, who goes on the road or so-and-so, is if you're a good hang.

Joe Rogan 2:13:23 Yeah!

Donnell Rawlings 2:13:23 And I wanna-

Joe Rogan 2:13:23 Oh, my God, that's everything.

Donnell Rawlings 2:13:25 I wanna... I don't know how many people quote Barry Katz, but I wanna share this story, and-

Joe Rogan 2:13:28 You might be the only one.

Donnell Rawlings 2:13:29 [chuckles] You're probably the only one.

Joe Rogan 2:13:31 [chuckles]

Donnell Rawlings 2:13:31 Be- but I... You said something earlier about undeniable, right?

Joe Rogan 2:13:35 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 2:13:36 I remember when I first moved from DC and I moved to New York, I was doing the chitlin circuit, the Black circuit. I was popular in the Black community, whatever. I was like, "I don't think this is gonna be enough. I wanna do the mainstream stuff. I wanna do these other things," right? And Barry Katz, um, Dave used to, uh, host this comedy night at this place called El Flamingo's in, in DC, in, in New York, and Barry Katz saw me there one day, and he was like, "I don't think I've ever seen a comedian that go in front of an audience that was ready to rip someone's head off, and you could hear silence." You know, that's the control I had with the audience. So we built sort of a respect for each other. And, um, I remember one time I was at the Comedy Cellar, and he was there, and I knew that he was... Back then, whatever you wanna say about him, nobody had a roster bigger than Barry Katz. Back then in, like, '97 or whatever-

Joe Rogan 2:14:24 Mm-hmm

Donnell Rawlings 2:14:25 ... he had everybody. Uh, he, I- the list goes on and on. So and I, and I knew he was a fan of mine, and I said, "Barry, man, I'm trying to work these clubs, these mainstream clubs, but I'm having a hard time, uh, getting in, passing these clubs." I was like, "Could you make a phone call or whatever for me?" And he looked at me, he said, "Donnell," He said, [lips smack] "This is what you do." I'll probably do the worst. Everybody does a better, better, better Barry Katz.

Joe Rogan 2:14:50 You gotta do Barry like this.

Donnell Rawlings 2:14:52 Yes. Yeah, okay, I'll try it again. He was like-

Joe Rogan 2:14:54 "This is what you do."

Donnell Rawlings 2:14:55 No, and slow it down. He said, "Donnell, just rip," right? He said-

Joe Rogan 2:15:03 Yeah, be undeniable.

Donnell Rawlings 2:15:04 That's what he said.

Joe Rogan 2:15:05 Yeah.

Donnell Rawlings 2:15:05 He said, "Just be..." He said, "I'm not talk-" And I tell... This is advice I give people. They say, "Well, I need so-and-so." I was like, "I'm not talking about have one good set and you've have four bad sets. I'm talking about the consistency, where every time somebody sees you go on that stage, you blowing the roof off. And once you do that-... if the managers are gonna come to you, they're gonna hear about it. That's the, one of the things that a lot of people try to skip. They like, "Oh, how was your set?" "It was okay, but I, I can't talk to you." Unless you just straight just destroying shit everywhere, then you got other shit to work on.

Joe Rogan 2:15:42 Yeah, but there's also a lot of people that are very delusional about how well they're doing-

Donnell Rawlings 2:15:45 Right

Joe Rogan 2:15:46 ... 'cause they want so much. They want it all to be about them, so they think they should've already had this, they should've already had that. "Why don't I have a sitcom? Why don't I have a this? Why don't I have a that?"

Donnell Rawlings 2:15:55 And I always said, this is another thing, even with these lineups, you do these shows, whatever, always say that you have time to have a defining moment. If you're in the room, right, and for, for some reason, the f- room is on fire, the club is on fire, everybody is ripping, you probably won't stand out as much as that night when everybody was bombing. You've seen rooms where-

Joe Rogan 2:16:17 Mm-hmm

Donnell Rawlings 2:16:18 ... everybody come backstage and say, "That crowd was weird," but then you got one motherfucker back there like this, "I don't give a [laughs] fuck what y'all doing."

Joe Rogan 2:16:24 Right.

Donnell Rawlings 2:16:24 "I'm going to elevate this." Those are the times when you gotta fucking stand up.

Joe Rogan 2:16:31 Yeah, but we used to see that all the time at The Store, like late night at The Store, in particular, where like... You know, 'cause the way The Store works, the show starts at 8:00 PM and it goes on till 2:00 AM. And there's a lot of people that get there at 8:00 a- 8:00 PM that are like, you know, tourists that are in town, and they sit there for the whole fucking show. They came to see The Comedy Store.

Donnell Rawlings 2:16:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:53 So by the time 12:30 rolls around, fuck, they've seen everything. And so you get this lull period, and then someone will go up and just tear that fucking place apart-

Donnell Rawlings 2:17:03 When-

Joe Rogan 2:17:04 ... with 50 people.

Donnell Rawlings 2:17:04 When I used to... I was so naive when I first started, that, um, uh, we used to have open mics, right? And the open mic list would be, like, 25 people, right? And they, they fucking... The guy that was running it, they hated me so much because I used to talk shit in the audience and everything, and they would keep bumping me down, right? And my dumb ass never got mad, right. I was like this, "Yeah, they want me to headline [laughing] ," right? 25 comedians. I took that as like, "Yeah, so..." I didn't think about audience fatigue or anything.

Joe Rogan 2:17:35 Oh, boy.

Donnell Rawlings 2:17:36 I just was like, "Yeah." And it would be... And but I'm telling you, I think that was one of the things that made me strong, because-

Joe Rogan 2:17:43 100%

Donnell Rawlings 2:17:44 ... I was like, "I'm, I'm, I'm gonna do what the next pers-" I've... There's one story, this is one of... If you ask Dave Chappelle one of the dopest sets he's ever seen, I just so happened to be a part of that. It was at the Hollywood Bowl years ago, about three years ago, right? You know, Jeff-

Joe Rogan 2:18:02 Is that when he got attacked?

Donnell Rawlings 2:18:03 No, no, that wasn't it. That was, like, the year before.

Joe Rogan 2:18:05 Okay.

Donnell Rawlings 2:18:05 You know Jeff Wills Live Nation, right?

Joe Rogan 2:18:07 Sure.

Donnell Rawlings 2:18:08 So we're doing, um-

Joe Rogan 2:18:09 Shout out to Jeff.

Donnell Rawlings 2:18:10 Shout out to Jeff. Um, we're doing, uh, a show. You know, Hollywood Bowl is 18,000 people, right? So show starts at 7:00, right. Jeff comes up to me, he was like, "Donnell, I got some good news and bad news." He said, "What?" He said, "We're gonna start on time. It's only but 700 people out there," right? Now, you imagine what 700 people look like [laughing] in front of a 18,000 place, right? He said, "There's only 700 people out there." He said, "Well, I can let you start now, or we can wait 10 minutes." I was like, "Jeff, it's not like 17,000 people gonna show up [chuckles] in 10 minutes." I said, "Give me the mic now." Big-ass stage, I jump off the stage, right? Dave and all these people in the green room. I jump off the stage, I go into the audience. I'm literally going to each person-

Joe Rogan 2:18:53 [laughing]

Donnell Rawlings 2:18:54 ... in the theater, and I'll get you a picture, you can add to this. I'm going to each