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Joe Rogan Experience #2460 - Rachel Wilson

Rachel Wilson is a writer, cultural commentator, and media personality. She is the author of “Occult Feminism: The Secret History of Women’s Liberation.” https://www.linktr.ee/RachelLWilson Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/rogan

Joe RoganhostRachel Wilsonguest
Feb 26, 20262h 21mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:02

    Intro

    1. SP

      [upbeat music]

  2. 0:02 – 1:10

    Rogan tees up the book and asks Rachel’s origin story

    1. SP

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music]

    2. JR

      Hello, Rachel. What's happening?

    3. RW

      Hello, Joe.

    4. JR

      Very nice to see you again.

    5. RW

      Good to see you, too.

    6. JR

      Um, so when your husband Andrew came in here, he told me about your book, and then I talked to you, and you seemed very interesting, and you gave me, like, a little brief synopsis of it. And so then I listened to it on audio tape, and it's fucking crazy.

    7. RW

      [laughing]

    8. JR

      And it is the Occult Feminism: The Secret History of Women's Liberation. Um, you know, I didn't really have much of an opinion on feminism. I... My, my opinion was, you know, unfortunately, you run into some feminists that just seem to not like men, for whatever reason. And, you know, there's a lot of people in this world that aren't happy with their position or station in life, but I didn't really think too much into how this all got started until I listened to your book, and I'm like, "This is kind of bonkers." So before we get into your book, like, how did you decide to write about this? Like, what, what was your little journey?

    9. RW

      Oh.

    10. JR

      Or big journey.

  3. 1:10 – 8:55

    Growing up between a Marxist feminist mom and conservative dad

    1. RW

      Yeah, it's kind of a big journey. So, uh, when I was growing up, I was, like, a... In all the advanced kid classes, and from the time I was in, like, kindergarten, it was just pounded into my head, like, "You're going to college, you're going to have a career. And, you know, you're smart, and you have to do something with that." It was, like-

    2. JR

      Right

    3. RW

      ... the only option that was put before me, and so I followed that path, like, all the way through school. And by the time I got done with 12 years of regular school, I realized a couple things. One is, uh, school is not where you go to learn things. Uh, school isn't nec- public school is not so great for smart people, for the most part, and that I really didn't like... Like, another four years of school just sounded like hell to me, and I really just wanted to get married and have kids. That's kind of what I always wanted to do, much to the horror of my Marxist feminist mother, um [chuckles] -

    4. JR

      Oh, you were-

    5. RW

      ... who did not like that

    6. JR

      ... indoctrinated at an early age.

    7. RW

      Well, she tried-

    8. JR

      [chuckles]

    9. RW

      ... but I was the why kid. I was the kid that's just like: "Why? Why?"

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. RW

      "But why?" Um, and I had, like, a Rush Limbaugh dad.

    12. JR

      Wow!

    13. RW

      Yeah. They got divorced. Shocker. [chuckles] Who could have seen it coming?

    14. JR

      [chuckles]

    15. RW

      Um, so they got divorced when I was, like, nine, and I had... So I grew up in, like, two worlds. I had, like, Republican business owner, Rush Limbaugh dad, and I had Marxist feminist, crazy mom.

    16. JR

      Was the mom always Marxist feminist, and was the hu- the, the dad always, like, a Rush Limbaugh Republican?

    17. RW

      Yep.

    18. JR

      How did they fall in love? How did all that happen?

    19. RW

      Uh, they didn't. I was an accident. [chuckles]

    20. JR

      Oh, so they just fallen in lust. [chuckles]

    21. RW

      Yes. [chuckles] I was, like, a, an oops baby, and my dad said that when he saw me, he was like: "Well, I don't want anybody else. Right, like, this is the only thing that matters to me, so I'm gonna make this work." And he tried his best.

    22. JR

      How did they even hook up with such radically different ideologies?

    23. RW

      I don't think they were talking about that sort of thing when they got together. They were probably hanging out at a bar.

    24. JR

      Oh.

    25. RW

      You know?

    26. JR

      So they didn't really know each other very well.

    27. RW

      Not really, no.

    28. JR

      Oh, okay.

    29. RW

      They were kind of like... They worked in the same place and met at work-

    30. JR

      Oh

  4. 8:55 – 12:09

    Rejecting the college track and prioritizing marriage, kids, and stability

    1. RW

      So, uh, I, I had this dream of, like, getting married, having kids, having an intact family, and making it like a place where kids can grow up without all the screaming and yelling and chaos that I had, and that a lot of kids have nowadays. So, um, didn't go to college. I had a full-ride scholarship, and I didn't go, which everybody thought was the end of the world. [chuckles] It was like, "How could you do that? Your life is over. You'll never be anything." And I was kinda like, "We'll see," you know?

    2. JR

      It is very weird that we're convinced that the only way to get educated is by an official institution, with all the information that's available now. I mean, even back then, like, that's the whole premise of Good Will Hunting.

    3. RW

      Mm-hmm.

    4. JR

      Like, you can get very smart from a public library.

    5. RW

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      You really don't need... It's just, the books are available for everyone. The information's available for everyone if you chase it down.

    7. RW

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      It's not like the only people that get any information are the ones who go to these colleges.

    9. RW

      It's one of the biggest lies-

    10. JR

      Literally

    11. RW

      ... that education, like, we can just educate everyone. The problem is we're not educated enough, and if everyone had enough access to education, everyone would be intelligent, and everyone would be thriving. It's like, as- the Internet's kinda proved this.

    12. JR

      I had a teacher in-

    13. RW

      It's not an information problem, right?

    14. JR

      Right. I had a teacher in high school that said something. I don't know if this is his quote or he was quoting someone else, but he said, "Education is something that allows you to get along without intelligence, and intelligence is something that allows you to get along without education."

    15. RW

      I like that. That's pretty good.

    16. JR

      Yeah, and I was like, "Oh, I get it." There's, there's certain people that are just dumb at certain things. Like, I remember being around intelligent people that had no knowledge of how a car worked-

    17. RW

      Yeah

    18. JR

      ... of any of the workings of a car. You would tell... Well, this is back in, like, spark plug days.

    19. RW

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      You could explain to them, like, "Oh, one of the cables for your spark plug got loose. You're only firing on five cylinders. The six- the whole six is not... That's why it's, like, shaking like that." "Who?"

    21. RW

      Yeah. [laughs]

    22. JR

      "Who?" Like, if that, if it was anything else, if you're talking about the economy, if you're talking about the political process, that guy would think the other guy was a moron, but now this guy thinks he's a moron. I remember, like, being in, like, auto shop class going, there's a lot of different kinds of intelligence. We've just done this weird thing where we've categorized, like, y- you have to go to specific schools.

    23. RW

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      You have to go to the... You have to get a degree. Everybody wanted to go to Ivy League schools. I lived in Boston. It was, like, very important. Did you get a higher education?

    25. RW

      Mm-hmm.

    26. JR

      You go on to make everybody proud, and they were all fucking miserable.

    27. RW

      [laughs] Well, my dad said this to me. He was the only person that when I graduated, I said: "I don't think I wanna go to s- college for this. I don't think that's what I wanna do. Like, any of the things I'm looking at when I think about, like, having a career in, in that thing, I'm not very excited about it. I don't, I don't get like, ooh, hyped up to go do this."

    28. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. RW

      I was like: "I really just kinda wanna... You know, maybe someday, but I would love to have a bunch of kids and stuff." And my dad was like: "You know, a lot of the people in my office have degrees, and, you know, they have careers, and some of them are very miserable people. So if you don't wanna do that," he's like, "You could always decide to go later."

    30. JR

      Yeah.

  5. 12:09 – 20:03

    Early motherhood, the “two-week back to work” norm, and the working-mom dilemma

    1. RW

      Yeah. And if it, you know, if I feel like I wanna go to college after a year of no high school, um, then I'll go. You know, I could still do it. But I ended up having a baby at 20.

    2. JR

      Mm.

    3. RW

      Which again, was the end of the world. "Oh, my God, Rachel, your life is over. You'll never be anything. You'll never do anything. It's over for you. It's such a tragedy." It was, like, treated like this horrible thing, and I thought it was great. And when I had her, the job that I had did not matter to me anymore, at all. It seemed so stupid. It was like, anybody can go... I was a hairstylist at the time. Anybody can go do haircuts. Someone else can cut Debbie's hair, but only I can be her mom. I wanna do that. And everybody was telling me, "You have to go back to work. You have to go back to work. That's what we do now. Two weeks after the baby's born, you gotta go back to work. You need the money, you need the security, you need the income." And I looked around and thought, "This is insane. Like, who came up with this system? Because I'm going to go drop her off at two weeks old and let some lady who doesn't know or care about or love my baby the way that I do, take care of her all day long." You know, w- if you factor in the commute, it's like nine, nine and a half hours that I'm away from her. By the time I get home and feed her and give her a bath, it'll be bedtime, and that'll be it. I'll get, like, maybe two hours with my baby all day? You know. Um, and I get to pay half of what I make to this other random person to raise my child. Who came up with this? This is stupid, and I have to pay taxes, [chuckles] you know, and I have to have a second vehicle, and insurance, and a work wardrobe. And I just thought, "This is the most inefficient, stupid system." And everyone around me is like, "This is, this is good. This is what we all need to do." Even the, like, Christian conservative women that were friends and family members were like, "Well, you don't wanna depend on a man, because then you're gonna get abused." They, they fear-mongered me to death about staying home with my kids. And at the time, uh, this was my high school boyfriend who I had my first child with. Um, because I was kind of a libertarian at this stage, and both my parents... At this point, my parents have multiple divorces between the two of them, and I always- [laughs]

    4. JR

      [laughs]

    5. RW

      I know. I always heard, "Oh, marriage is just a piece of paper. What really matters is that you love each other," and that sort of thing.

    6. JR

      Uh.

    7. RW

      And I'd known this guy since we were kids. We, we'd known each other forever, we'd been together for a long time, so I thought this was great. And my goal was, let's get us to the point where I can stay home and be, like, a full-time mom, and he had stuff going on. It did not work out. He took off. Devastating, horrible, terrible for me. No big fights, no cheating, nothing like that. Um, you know, he's a private person, so I don't wanna tell his business, but he had his own personal-

    8. JR

      Mm

    9. RW

      ... things going on, and left. And it was back to w- you know, I had to work and be a working mom, and I didn't like that, and I still thought that there was something wrong here, but I hadn't really, like, looked into, where do we get this idea that women must be working? Like, my grandma didn't work. Bless her soul, by the way, she is o- gonna be turning 100 April 1st, my grandma, who's still with us. And she's probably my ace in the hole and the reason I kinda turned out normal despite my [chuckles] chaotic family upbringing. 'Cause she was super grounded, nice Christian lady. V- only an eighth-grade education, but she knew how to do everything. She'd go out back and, like, pluck a chicken, cook it up for dinner, can everything in the garden, preserve all the food, and she had more done by 8:00 AM than most human beings on Earth. So I had, like, Grandma as a pillar to really help me through this stuff. So shout-out, Grandma. Uh-

    10. JR

      Which is work.

    11. RW

      Yeah!

    12. JR

      It's housework.

    13. RW

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      Yeah, which is, like, really important. Like, it has to get done.

    15. RW

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      And most people think, "Someone else should do that."

    17. RW

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      "I need to be in an office."

    19. RW

      Yeah. This is for, uh, wagies, like low, low-paid wagie people to do. I need to be doing something important, but-

    20. JR

      Right

    21. RW

      ... I always thought she was really important. She was super important to me, because when, you know, my parents were off doing whatever they were doing, I'd always get dumped at Grandma's. So I spent a ton of time with her growing up, and she was full of wisdom, and like I said, she knew how to do everything. Like, her practical skills were crazy. She can cook anything, she can clean anything, she can can and preserve food. She grew up during the Great Depression. She was born in 1928.

    22. JR

      Oh, wow.

    23. RW

      Yeah, and she's, she had been through some stuff. Like, she'd lost her husband to cancer, she'd lost her daughter to kidney disease. Like, she'd been through it.

    24. JR

      Mm.

    25. RW

      So she had a lot of, like, good advice and wisdom, and she'd always say, "Oh, I wish I was smart like you. I wish I was smart like you, and I could go to school," and stuff like that. But I thought, " Grandma, you're the only person that knows what the hell they're doing. [chuckles] You're the only person in my world who-

    26. JR

      Well, the grass is always greener

    27. RW

      ... seems to know what they're doing." Yeah.

    28. JR

      The grass is always greener, you know?

    29. RW

      Mm-hmm.

    30. JR

      When you're looking at a, a woman that's entering into the workforce, who's really intelligent, you start thinking, "Oh, she's gonna have a career-

  6. 20:03 – 21:48

    From one-income families to the “two-income trap” (1970s economic shift)

    1. JR

      vitamin D3 plus K2, and other gifts free in your welcome kit with your first subscription. That's drinkag1.com/rogan. Isn't there also a practical consideration for a lot of people? Because the cost of living is very different now than it was, like, say, in the 1950s or the 1960s.

    2. RW

      Mm-hmm.

    3. JR

      And it's very difficult-

    4. RW

      Yeah

    5. JR

      ... for a lot of people to get by on one income.

    6. RW

      Yes, it is, but have you ever asked why that is?

    7. JR

      Uh, I, I have, but I'd love to hear you talk about it. [laughing]

    8. RW

      So prior to the 1970s, we had 5% of mothers with school-aged kids working outside the home. And for all of human history, even during the Industrial Revolution, you know, 1700, 1800, 1900s, like you said, in the '40s and '50s, you could be a s- a janitor and support a family and have four kids on one income. And something shifted in the 1970s, and it's never shifted back. So it can't be, like, how the stock market's doing. It can't really be, like, all these other independent economic factors that have shifted and changed and been so different over the course of the last 50 years. The one big thing that we changed is we pushed women into college and into the workforce, and by the 1980s, they were on par with men in workforce, workforce participation. So in the span of about 20 years, we almost doubled the labor force by pushing all the women in, and men's wages have never recovered. So now you are stuck in a two-income trap, where even women who wanna stay home, and even dads who would love to have their wife home with their kids, it's really tough.

    9. JR

      So what, why did women entering the workforce keep men's wages stable or keep them from going up along with the in- with the inflation?

  7. 21:48 – 28:00

    Feminism as an engineered project: foundations, schools, propaganda, and state interests

    1. RW

      It really fundamentally changed the economy. I have a friend named Aaron Clary, who wrote a book about the, about this. Um, it's an analysis of what he calls a female-based economy, where it's more consumer-driven. Uh, women are, like, responsible for 80% of consumer spending, and now that they're all educated and in the job market, we have a lot more of things like HR departments, uh, psychology, sociology. Like, um, uh, the economy shifted away from being, like, manufacturing and production and more male-dominated things to, we have all these women coming out of university and, you know, they... What do they get degrees in? I think 80% of psychology degrees are earned by women, and then despite all our efforts to push women into STEM, they're still, like, maybe 20% of STEM degrees. So we have all these very educated women, and we have a lot of kind of fluffy jobs, like office jobs, HR jobs, social media managers. Uh, and mostly women do a lot of the same things they used to do in the home. So they're nurses, they're early childhood educators, they're retail workers, they're cooks, they're, um, they're housekeepers. They're doing a lot of the stuff they used to do, which, uh, the Marxist feminists called unpaid labor, right? This is the myth of women's unpaid labor. So instead of cleaning your own house, educating your own children, cooking meals for your family, maybe for your, your parents or grandparents who can't cook for themselves, all the things we used to do for our own family, clerical work, bookkeeping for your husband's business, things like that, we're doing those things for corporations. So that... And, and this was kind of by design. Uh, a lot of the book is about the fact that there were people who pushed feminism, and it wasn't because women were oppressed, and they cared about the position of women, necessarily. It's because the same people who pushed, you know, the 19th Amendment and pushed progressivism and feminism were the same people who drafted the Federal Reserve legislation, came up with the income tax, came up with the compulsory education system. And especially on the Marxist side, they, they pushed feminism because they said, "If we can push mothers and women into the workforce, and we double the workforce,... workers of the world unite! You know what I'm saying? So it's like we have this huge workforce, and through the university systems, we can kind of propagandize the young women to be socialists and to be Marxists, 'cause they kind of tend that way anyway. The way that women's brains work is very, like, communitarian, for a reason. We're moms, you know? So it's very easy to radicalize, and this isn't my opinion. Like, I go over in the book how you can just read the writings of these people, and they tell you. August Bebel, Alexandra Kollontai, Margaret Fuller, like, all these early 1800s writers were saying, "We need to get women away from the home and away from being mothers and push them into the workplace, because then we can politicize them, we can motivate them into becoming revolutionaries, and that's how we'll get the numbers to make this work."

    2. JR

      Wow.

    3. RW

      Yeah. So now, instead of staying home with your kids and doing all these things for your family, for your community, you're doing them for a corporation, and you're paying income tax. You're paying all the other taxes associated with having to work outside the home, gas tax, 'cause you're driving back and forth to work, um, payroll taxes, all that kind of stuff, and you are away from your kids all day. Where do they go? They go to public schools, where the public school system then can dictate to them what the values should be, uh, how, you know, the, what the worldview should be, instead of the parents.

    4. JR

      Hoy.

    5. RW

      Yeah.

    6. JR

      It just makes you wonder, like, there, there's all these giant shifts in culture, and it makes you wonder: what, what would we look like if that had never taken place?

    7. RW

      Well, that's... So you asked, like, how, why did I start writing about this? That's why, 'cause I had, like, an aha moment, where I realized feminism is far and away, like, it's not even close. It's the biggest social revolution in all of human history, and it happened in one century. We took the whole social order that was in every culture around the world for all of the r- rest of time that's recorded [chuckles] and we flipped it upside down and completely changed it in one century. Everything about your life is different now because of feminism, in ways that you don't even think about. You know, the way that you act in the workplace, the, the way that legislation works, the way that school systems work, like, every single thing about life has changed as a downstream result of feminism and pushing this model of women's equality, which it's really not. It's really not about equality, and all you have to do is read all the first w- everybody thinks first wave was just, "Oh, they just wanted rights. They just wanted a few rights. That was good," you know? And the average person would say, "Yeah, I, I think that that was good," but that's because they don't know the real history, and the reason they don't know the real history is because when they invented gender studies and women's studies, which were created by the Ford Foundation with some help from the Rockefellers and the Carnegies, uh, in the late '60s, they literally rewrote the history of how women's suffrage happened. So there's a professor named Joseph Miller, who did an examination of 12... the main 12 textbooks that are most commonly used in all the Western universities to teach women's history, and he's not even, like, a right-winger. He's, like, a liberal college professor. But when he looked and examined those 12 textbooks and compared them to the actual writings, uh, you know, newspaper articles, writings of feminists themselves, public debates held between suffragists and anti-suffragists, all of the writings of anti-suffragist groups, which far outnumbered pro-suffragist groups, he found that they left out huge chunks of what really happened or intentionally misrepresented what actually happened, on purpose, to kind of sell feminism as something different than what it, what it really was.

  8. 28:00 – 40:01

    Suffrage revisionism: Rachel’s claim that most women didn’t want the vote

    1. JR

      So what did they leave out?

    2. RW

      So the most important thing they left out was that women did not want Women's Liberation. They were-

    3. JR

      What?

    4. RW

      Yes. Everybody assumes and believes that it was a grassroots thing, that women kind of looked around in the 19th century and they went, "You know, we're oppressed. We don't have any rights. I wish I could work. I wish I could get away from my bastard husband, who drinks me, drinks and beats me. I need, I need rights. I need a bank account. I need credit cards. I wanna go to university." And, and they marched, and they picketed until they had voting rights and, and equality in the workplace. That's the story everyone's heard, and it's not correct at all. It's, it's, in, in fact, it's the opposite. So [chuckles] this is hilarious. When the... So th- we had this big fight in the late 1800s between pro-suffrage groups and anti-suffrage groups. Most women in the United States and England, if they were a member of either, they far outnumbered by joining the anti-suffrage groups. They were very much against it. It was only a small minority of women who were pro-suffrage, and these groups would debate publicly. They would write pamphlets. They would write tracts. We have a really good written historical record of what actually happened, and women didn't want it. They thought, they thought they had a lot of great things going on already, that were gonna get ruined by suffrage. For example, here's some... Let's do a little myth-busting. People have this idea that prior to the 19th Amendment, women were denied an education. Completely untrue. Some of the first universities in the United States were exclusively female universities and seminaries and secondary schools. More women actually probably had the opportunity to go than men, 'cause men always had to work in the fields, in the mines, go to war, build the infrastructure of the nation, work on railroads, you know? Um, so women were seen as, like, "Well, you're gonna be teaching the kids, so you should probably do a little extra education, whereas Jimmy and Billy, they need to work the farm with Dad."

    5. JR

      Mm.

    6. RW

      You know?... So there was never any law that prohibited women from higher education. What happens, what feminists do, they rely on framing. So they'll say because there weren't co-ed universities, because it was women's universities, and then men had separate ones, it was mostly, um, segregated. They'll say, "Women didn't have equal access to education."

    7. JR

      Were the better schools men's schools?

    8. RW

      No. In fact, I'd say-- so I guess you could say some. There were a handful of Ivy League institutions that didn't let women into certain programs, um, but it was mostly, like, medical stuff, things like that, and that had already changed before the passage of the 19th Amendment. Women were already being let into Ivy League education, being allowed to do biology and, and become doctors. Many of the women in my book, who were first-wave suffragists, had degrees, had educations. Um, the other one is, like, women weren't allowed to, like, leave the house. They weren't allowed to, you know, sex out of wedlock or children out of wedlock. Oh, my gosh, it was so terrible. But most of the women in my book who were traveling the world promoting women's suffrage had children out of wedlock, had extramarital affairs or multiple sex partners, or were even lesbians.

    9. JR

      Mm.

    10. RW

      Open lesbians, touring the world, making money, giving speeches, writing pamphlets and tracts, raising money for the suffrage movement. Nobody put them in jail. Nobody whipped them. Was there some stigma? Sure, but I don't think that you can argue that stigma against those sort of things equates to oppression of women by the patriarchy. It's always framed that way, but that's not true.

    11. JR

      So what year did they pass the 19th Amendment? And the 19th Amendment is what gave women-

    12. RW

      1920.

    13. JR

      That gave women the right to vote, right?

    14. RW

      Mm-hmm.

    15. JR

      So there were women that said, "I don't want the right to vote?"

    16. RW

      Yes. In fact, when they-

    17. JR

      But why, why wouldn't you just want the right to vote, even keeping a traditional household? Like, the right to have a say if it's about the world, it's about the United States-

    18. RW

      Yeah

    19. JR

      ... it's about our laws and how we're gonna govern.

    20. RW

      Yeah. So I'll tell you what their reasoning was. They said, um, "We're gonna lose a lot of the protection and provision that we currently enjoy." So, for example, in the state of New York, in the 1800s, as a woman entering a marriage, if you had money, if you had an inheritance that came with you when you got married, if your husband cheated on you or left or divorced you, um, you-- he couldn't take any of that. Your inheritance was protected from, you know, your husband leaving and taking it. Um, and he, only men could be held responsible for debt. And there was something called breadwinner laws that the courts... It was like a systemic law. It wasn't like one specific law. It was like a whole legal framework that said, "Look, women have to raise kids and be pregnant and have babies, so we have to hold men responsible for in- financially taking care of women and children." So women couldn't be thrown into a debtor's prison. They couldn't be held legally liable for repaying a loan or anything like that. They could own property. People don't believe that either. People believe women couldn't own anything, and the reason they say that is because once you were married, you were considered one legal entity. But even then, a married man in the state of New York in 1800 couldn't sell a property that was owned after he was married without his wife's written consent, and the court had to be assured that she was not being, like, coerced into it. So there were already... Like, the anti-suffragists themselves argued, "We kinda have everything we want. You know, we, we have, like, most of the benefits of this, you know, pa-" They didn't call it a patriarchy-

    21. JR

      Mm

    22. RW

      ... but what we would call a patriarchy. They said, "We're the primary beneficiaries of this system. We have a lot of protections, and if you make us equal, we're gonna lose those. Like, what if we get drafted? What if we have to go do jury duty and hear, like, the gruesome details of, like, murders and rapes and things like that? It's going to pit the family against each other."

    23. JR

      Just with the right to vote?

    24. RW

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      Why?

    26. RW

      Just with the right to vote.

    27. JR

      But why would-

    28. RW

      Because, so-

    29. JR

      Why couldn't you keep all those things and just be able to participate?

    30. RW

      Well, unfortunately, they were right. So uh, one really good example is the women's temperance movement. You guys remember Prohibition. That was primarily women who pushed for Prohibition. It was the Women's Temperance Union. It was like a Christian, uh, movement to ban alcohol, and women didn't have the right to vote, but they got Prohibition passed, which was huge. Like, it was one of those things that nobody thought was even gonna happen, and, and it happened largely because of their political motivation. And the reason that it worked is because they could go to Congress, or they could go to the Senate and say, "We're not a political voting bloc. We have a moral high ground from which to ask for these things, because you can't buy our vote. You can't, you know, um, like, uh, offer us things and kinda seduce us into voting for you based on promising us things that we want." And they didn't wanna lose that 'cause they felt like they had a lot of influence, and the things they predicted would happen, they s- the anti-suffragists said, "You're gonna see a lot of divorce. You're gonna see broken-up families because it's gonna pit husband and wife against each other," just like it did with my parents, where you've got, you know, Mom wants to vote for the Democrat, Dad wants to vote for the Republican, or vice versa. Now they're fighting about it. They wanna split. They have separate worldviews. Um, and political interests will be used to drive a wedge between men and women and break up families, and then we're all gonna be a bunch of single moms. We're all gonna have to work. Like, they, they literally predicted this stuff. It's in... One whole chapter of the book is dedicated to their arguments, so they're not my arguments.

  9. 40:01 – 48:50

    Inside early suffrage leadership: PR, allies, and scandalous networks

    1. JR

      How did Susie B- Susan B. Anthony get involved in all this? Because she was one of those people that was like... What was she on, the $2 bill or something?

    2. RW

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      Yeah. And she was one of those people that was always held up as this-

    4. RW

      Mm-hmm

    5. JR

      ... like, amazing woman.

    6. RW

      Mm-hmm.

    7. JR

      And then I started listening to your book, and I was like: Wait, what?

    8. RW

      Yeah. S- a lot of these women, like, her and, and Elizabeth Cady Stanton were kind of the two big figureheads in America. There were a lot of other important people, but those are the two most people have heard of. They're the ones who wrote The History of Woman Suffrage, which is this giant, like, multi-volume history that they wrote. Now, they wrote it from a very biased perspective to make themselves the rock stars of this movement. They wanted to be remembered in the history books as being these awesome, badass, kinda revolutionary, strong, independent women. They, in fact, came up with the strong, independent woman narrative, um, that women were victims who needed to be un-victimized. They had other suffragists that they were trying to cut out of the history when they were putting together this History of Woman Suffrage. Lucy Stone was one that said, "Wait a minute, you guys are leaving out huge chunks of important information, like the fact that our main support comes from men, progressive men and socialist men and polygamist men. Like, why are you guys leaving this out? If you do, like, everyone's gonna know you just didn't mention any of that." 'Cause at the time, it was, like, super well-known. They had a lot of PR problems in the suffrage movement because it was known as something that prostitutes, socialists, Marxists, polygamists, and revolutionaries were into.... and she was like, "You can't leave that out. It's like a main point. Maybe you don't like how it portrays us, but you gotta include it." So they, like, reluctantly did include some of that, but they were gonna try to leave it out altogether and frame it as we know it now, as a fight of women against men, this fight of oppressed women against the oppressive patriarchy that was systemically trying to keep a boot on women's necks.

    9. JR

      It's crazy-

    10. RW

      And even their own colleagues were like, "That ain't how it happened."

    11. JR

      It's crazy that progressive men were a problem even back then. [chuckles] These-

    12. RW

      The, the simp problem is-

    13. JR

      ... bitch-ass men-

    14. RW

      [chuckles] Bitch ass-

    15. JR

      Have always been a problem. They're a giant problem.

    16. RW

      Mm-hmm.

    17. JR

      And that's one thing that feminism does. It gives them a way to be like... I always call them, like, vampire familiars.

    18. RW

      Yes.

    19. JR

      Like, they never really get to be a vampire, but they do all the deeds for the vampires, and the vampire loves them, and they, they hang around the vampire, and they, you know?

    20. RW

      It's the sneaky fucker mating strategy.

    21. JR

      Yes.

    22. RW

      Yep.

    23. JR

      Yes. What is that, cuttlefish?

    24. RW

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      Yeah, cuttlefish do that.

    26. RW

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      Like, sneaky bitch-ass cuttlefish-

    28. RW

      [chuckles]

    29. JR

      ... pretend they're female so they can hang around the females.

    30. RW

      Yep, and that's exactly what was happening. There were other motivations, too. Like, uh, Victoria Woodhull was a famous feminist. She was the first one to have, like, a big newspaper. She was known as Mrs. Satan because she was into free love. She wanted to make prostitution legal. She said that marriage was just a legal form of prostitution. She saw it to be no different than regular old run-of-the-mill prostitution. She was, like, really radical. She was also a scam artist. Like, the thing I found when I was looking into the histories of all these women, they were into the occult or very anti-Christian, 'cause they saw it as patriarchal and oppressive. They were usually con artists or scammers, so spiritualism and snake oil salesman was, like, really big and popular at the time. This lady sold fake cancer cures. She was wanted in, like, four different states-

  10. 48:50 – 59:22

    Margaret Sanger, eugenics, and the population-control throughline

    1. RW

      Right. They're gonna be- there won't be a South Korea in the near future if something radical doesn't happen over there. But this is, uh, there's a whole nother chapter in the book dedicated to this whole thing and where this came from, the Malthusian population agenda. Margaret Sanger gave me nightmares writing the chapter about her. I literally had nightmares about her because she was so evil. [laughs] Like, it's hard to... Everybody's heard what she said about Black people by now. Most people have heard that.

    2. JR

      What'd she say?

    3. RW

      Oh, that they're the lowest of the low, and we just need to get rid of them, that it would be best for humanity if we could just convince all of the lower races to just stop breeding. So the Planned Parenthood, on purpose, focused on African American and in- indigenous communities, and poor whites, too. But, um, she was part of the Rockefeller Bureau for Social Hygiene. It was a eugenics program, and Planned Parenthood was a eugenics program, and she was so anti-natalist. You can find clips of her on the internet now, where they would interview her on the radio, and she'd say, "If it were up to me, nobody would ever have babies anymore. We just would stop having them because life is terrible, and life is hard, and it's suffering, and bringing children in the world is a terrible thing, especially," she said, "the most..." This is a famous quote of hers: "The most, uh, kind thing a large family can do to one of its young members is to kill it." [drumbeat] And her whole, her whole shtick was sold on lies. She told lies about her mother. She said that her mother died from overbreeding, that she had so many children, it just, it just destroyed her body, and she died. Not true! Her mom had tuberculosis and died from tuberculosis, like half of everyone back then. So she lied about that. She told a fake story about a woman named Sadie Sachs, who didn't know how she kept getting pregnant, and the doctor refused to tell her because the bad male doctors just wanted the women to just keep having babies, so they refused to tell them how that worked. Which I went and asked my grandma. I'm like: "Grandma, you were around, like, in this exact time period. Did you and your mom, like, not know how babies were made?" She was like: "What are you talking about? Of course we knew that." In fact, she said, "After my sister was born," her, her younger sister was the fourth kid in the family, "the doctor told my parents like, 'You guys need to be careful, like, time things and, like, try...'" 'Cause it's, you know, she had some health problems, and he's like: "Another baby might be risky, so if you wanna avoid that, here's how you avoid that." She's like: "Of course, we knew." This idea-

    4. JR

      People have known that since the beginning of time.

    5. RW

      Of course they have, but she wrote a whole book that purported to have thousands of letters from women around the world writing to Margaret Sanger, saying, "I'm only 23, and I'm on my 14th baby." I'm not kidding.

    6. JR

      [laughs]

    7. RW

      She would- she- the numbers were insane. L- she was alleging that there were 23-year-olds who were on, like, their 11th pregnancy and dying from, uh, over birth, and that they just didn't know how to stop it, and so she was like, "This is why we need abortion clinics, is for this reason." Now, I looked into this because there's something called the Margaret Sanger Papers Project. They have everything she's ever done. If she wiped her mouth on a napkin, they've got that in the archives. They have everything. Do you think, out of the thousands of letters she said that she got from women saying, "I just can't stop having all these babies, and it's killing me, and I'm miserable," how many do you think are preserved in the Margaret Sanger Papers Project?

    8. JR

      How many? Zero?

    9. RW

      Three.

    10. JR

      Three?

    11. RW

      Three, out of thousands, and I emailed them directly, and I asked, "Seems weird. You guys have, like, literally letters that she wrote to her friends. You have, like, all this documentation on everything she ever did. Certainly, if she was getting thousands of letters, you've got more than three." And they said: "Well, we think it was mostly lost to time, or she sent them to abortion doctors to encourage them to keep going 'cause, you know, people didn't like abortion doctors. So we think she sent it to a lot of abortion doctors to, like, you know, give them a pep talk and, uh, yeah, we just don't really know. It's just lost to time."

    12. JR

      So you think she made a lot of it up?

    13. RW

      Oh, yes, yes.

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. RW

      Especially because if you read the book... Nobody reads this crap, you know-

    16. JR

      Right

    17. RW

      ... except me. I'm crazy. Nobody else wants to read all of their horrible writing. But in the book, if you're reading these letters, they sound literally like they're all written by the same person.

    18. JR

      Mm.

    19. RW

      So it's extremely dubious at best.... I would love if, hey, if the Margaret Sanger Papers Project folks wanna come and tell me, like, where all these are, or if there's any proof of this, I would love to see it, 'cause I looked for two and a half years and couldn't find anything. In fact, the most popular, uh, Sanger biographer in the world, who, like, knows everything about her, admits that she lied about tons of stuff. She's like, "Oh, she lied about the Sadie Sachs story, she lied about why her mother really died, and she probably lied about, you know, those other stories and letters, too." But she believed it was for a noble cause. She thought sh- what she was doing was good. And the other big secret is she was getting a lot of money. She was getting paid by the Rockefeller Foundation and promoted by people like H.G. Wells, who she was also having an affair with. Uh, they're all a bunch of creepers, Joe, I'm telling you. She was [chuckles] she was, she was-

    20. JR

      It sounded like it.

    21. RW

      Yeah, she was married.

    22. JR

      She sounded like an insane person in the book.

    23. RW

      Yeah, she was married and had three kids. She left her kids in, like, hippie, bohemian communities. One of them died from neglect in one of these communities. Didn't care about her kids at all. In fact, one of her sons grew up and said, "My sister would not be dead if my mother gave any shits about us whatsoever, but she didn't. She was anywhere except where we were. Any excuse to leave." She let her ex-husband take the rap for her distributing illegal, um, illegal stuff about, like, abortion and birth control, that the Comstock laws didn't allow that back then. So she was wanted in court and was gonna be put in jail for distributing that stuff. She let her husband take the fall for it while she went to England and had affairs with people like H.G. Wells and Havelock Ellis, and they were all, uh, bisexual, and they were all occultists and doing all this crazy stuff. But people- H.G. Wells called her the most incredible woman ever to live and said that she was going to have more impact on the future of humanity than any other person.

    24. JR

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    25. RW

      Because he was a eugenicist who loved the idea of millions of abortions a year. [chuckles]

    26. JR

      H.G. Wells, The War of the Worlds guy-

    27. RW

      Yep

    28. JR

      ... was a eugenicist?

    29. RW

      Yep. You should have Jay Dyer on to tell you about H.G. Wells some- I brought you his book.

    30. JR

      Oh, I don't wanna know.

  11. 59:22 – 1:06:33

    Gloria Steinem, the CIA, and feminism as Cold War messaging

    1. JR

      ... the Gloria Steinem CIA thing is nuts.

    2. RW

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      That's nuts.

    4. RW

      Yeah.

    5. JR

      Because with the real tinfoil hat, people wanna think that the CIA's been involved in every single social asp- including, like, the rock and roll movement of the 1960s-

    6. RW

      Mm-hmm. Yeah

    7. JR

      ... and there seems to be some evidence of that.

    8. RW

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      And, and, and when you see, like, how far the tentacles actually go, and then you see it, like, in feminism, you go, "Well, wait, wha- wha- what? Was- she was what?"

    10. RW

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      So explain her-

    12. RW

      So Gloria Steinem was recruited out of Smith College in the '50s. It's an all-women's college. Um, she already had some pretty, like, left progressive, kind of feminist, uh, leanings, and this is generally how this works. If you wanna know how the left has taken over academia, I have a whole paper about this on my Substack, how NGOs and universities have just swung completely left, and they have just captured the university systems. They do it this way: so sh- they recruit her out of Smith College. You know, she's writing papers about women's rights and, and feminism and stuff like that, and they go, "She's pretty good at this." So they approach her, and they say, "We're willing to offer you something called the Chester Bowles Fellowship." And she goes, "What's that?" And they're like, "Well, it doesn't really exist. We made it up for you, because what we're gonna do is we're gonna give you this fellowship. We're gonna send you to India, we're gonna send you to Europe, we're gonna have you tour the whole United States, do a media tour, start a magazine to promote women's rights, the things that you believe in." So it's, it's a little more sneaky than everybody sitting in a dark back room and, like, plotting some evil plan to, like, uh, make America into a feminist hellhole. It was more like, "We're trying to promote liberal democracy around the world because it's part of the Cold War. You're really good at this feminism stuff, um, and if we can get a lot of women voting, and if we can get them into universities and mobilize them as a political, uh, group..." Just si- similar to what they did with Black people. Convince Blacks that, "You're all oppressed, you're all victims," um, and, and radicalize them and make them permanent Democrat voters. Same thing that they did with feminism. So they sent her to India, where she worked for the Ford Foundation. Again, the same people who created gender studies. Um, learned a lot of interesting things over there in India. Not sure what's going on in there. I said in my book, it's like a hotbed of, like, theosophy and, like, craz- like, the Dalai Lama, and there's a lot of weird stuff going on in India. I don't know why they send everybody there, and then when they leave India, they go and promote this weird stuff. It's what they do. So they sent her to, like, Eastern Europe to a youth festival, where she promoted feminism, and this is at the time where the Eastern Bloc is still communist, and it's hard to get in there. But as a woman, this is something, uh, traditionally they always do with women. It's very easy to sneak female spies or propagandists in, rather than men, 'cause they're less suspicious.

    13. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    14. RW

      You know, it's like, "Oh, she just wants to promote education for women," and they're like, "Fine. She can come, I guess, whatever." Um, so she's promoting feminism there, then she comes here. She's undercover at the Playboy Mansion, weirdly.

    15. JR

      Undercover?

    16. RW

      Yeah, she... Like, people didn't know she was CIA at this point. She was like a Playboy bunny for a little while.

    17. JR

      What?

    18. RW

      Yeah, she was at the Hugh Hefner mansion and-

    19. JR

      Undercover as a-

    20. RW

      Yeah

    21. JR

      ... Playboy bunny?

    22. RW

      Yeah.

    23. JR

      That's hilarious.

    24. RW

      Yeah, to promo- she was kind of hot for, like, back in the day, in the '70s, the late '60s, she was kind of hot. Well, compared to the other feminists we had to choose from. Who else did we have? Betty Friedan.

    25. JR

      I, what is-

    26. RW

      I don't know if you've ever seen her.

    27. JR

      What... Is there any photos of Gloria Steinem at the mansion?

    28. RW

      Yeah, there's a picture of her in the bunny costume.

    29. JR

      Oh, we've gotta see that.

    30. RW

      Yeah.

  12. 1:06:33 – 1:17:30

    Indoctrination in action: ICE protest culture and the “victim/oppressor” frame

    1. JR

      Did you see, did you see the... There's a video of this guy, um, g- going up to people to try to get, um, people that ICE has deported brought back into the country? Have you seen this video?

    2. RW

      No.

    3. JR

      Is there... Let me send it to you, Jamie, 'cause it's, it's quite funny because, uh, he's explaining how one of them, uh, the one who wants to get back in the country, has committed five murders-

    4. RW

      [laughs]

    5. JR

      ... but he thinks he needs a second chance, and they're 100% agreeing with him. It's like, it's one of the funniest things. It's like-

    6. RW

      [laughs]

    7. JR

      ... you, you just, you see how fucking kooky people are with this stuff, that it, it's not like, "Oh, wow, he's a bad person."

    8. RW

      Mm.

    9. JR

      It's like, no, in their little, tiny, blinder-sided, ideological bubble, anybody that get to, gets deported should be brought in. ICE is bad, immigrants are good.

    10. RW

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      And without any regard whatsoever to the consequences of bringing over murderers-

    12. RW

      Right

    13. JR

      ... and rapists, and drug dealers, and gang members. Put your headphones on real quick, 'cause this is kooky.

    14. SP

      Bring back illegal immigrants who were deported by ICE. We're with the Bring Them Back campaign. Could we get your signature for our petition? Just need your name and email address. Specifically, we're trying to bring back, uh, Edwin Hernandez from El Salvador.

    15. SP

      Yeah.

    16. SP

      We do have to disclose to you, though, that he is an admitted member of MS-13, and he did kill five people back in El Salvador, but we think he deserves a second chance, and we want to get him back. That's him right there. What do you guys think about what's going on with ICE in this country?

    17. SP

      Oh, it's, um, appalling, I guess, is maybe not even a strong enough word, so-

    18. SP

      Appalling?

    19. SP

      Yeah. We're from Maine. Um, there's been-

    20. SP

      Oh

    21. SP

      ... a lot of ICE activity in Maine.

    22. SP

      Up in Portland, right?

    23. SP

      Yeah, up in Portland.

    24. SP

      Heard about that.

    25. SP

      Yeah, that's where we live. Yeah. So, um, I'm a teacher, and, um-

    26. JR

      Mm-hmm

    27. SP

      ... we, there were lots of students that were afraid to come to school.

    28. SP

      Thank you so much.

    29. SP

      And, yes.

    30. SP

      Hopefully, we can get, uh, Edwin Hernandez back-

  13. 1:17:30 – 1:31:00

    From Sex and the City to DINK culture: modern incentives, dating apps, and collapsing birth rates

    1. JR

      The lady who created Sex and the City.

    2. RW

      Oh, yeah.

    3. JR

      Did you see that?

    4. RW

      She's a gem. Yes, there's, like, a little, a video about that, isn't there? Where, um-... she said that she regrets-

    5. JR

      Yeah

    6. RW

      -having ever made that.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. RW

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      Isn't that crazy? 'Cause how many women saw that and like, "I'm gonna be that boss girl."

    10. RW

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      "I'm gonna be the..." What was the one lady that fucked everybody, the w- the hot blonde lady?

    12. RW

      Uh. [snaps fingers]

    13. JR

      Jamie, you know.

    14. RW

      Samantha?

    15. JR

      You're a giant- aren't you a giant fan of Sex and the City?

    16. SP

      No, but that's the character's name. Uh, character or actor?

    17. JR

      Both.

    18. SP

      Samantha is the character.

    19. RW

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      That, uh, lady, she was in all the, like, '80s hot-

    21. RW

      Kim Cattrall.

    22. JR

      That's it.

    23. RW

      Yes.

    24. JR

      Super hot.

    25. RW

      Yeah.

    26. JR

      Yeah, and it was like, "I'm gonna be like her."

    27. RW

      "I'm gonna be a Samantha." Yeah, I know.

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. RW

      Well, I mean, it was pushed on me really hard, and I was told, I was told, "You're, like, a loser." I'll never forget this. It was, like, maybe 12 years ago. Somebody, um, from the RNC that I was arguing with online about this, she told me, "You should be ashamed of yourself. You are not a proper conservative woman, and you are not contributing to the movement by staying home with your kids." And I said, "Really? How's that?" She goes, "What about the GDP?" [laughing]

    30. JR

      Duh. [laughing]

  14. 1:31:00 – 1:51:06

    Occult feminism: spiritualism, Luciferian symbolism, and gender abolition ideas

    1. JR

      Um, the occult aspect of it-

    2. RW

      Yeah

    3. JR

      ... was very shocking.

    4. RW

      Yes.

    5. JR

      It was very weird.

    6. RW

      It was very shocking to me.

    7. JR

      You didn't know?

    8. RW

      When I started researching to put together the book, I thought it was gonna be mostly about the funding of the feminist movement, the Jekyll Island Club being the same guys that, like, went to the Jekyll Island in secret and put together the income tax and the Federal Reserve, and then compulsory education system. I thought it would be mostly about that, and the fact that women never wanted it, that women weren't the ones that just came together and demanded it. And then I started researching all the, like, popular figureheads and really reading their stuff, 'cause I was like, "This is a very unpopular... It's- I'm making pretty intense claims here, so I really have to be able to back it up, and I better make sure I'm correct, and I better make sure I'm accurate." Because whenever you're challenging a, a narrative this big, everyone's gonna go through with a fine-tooth comb and try to-

    9. JR

      Right

    10. RW

      ... see where I'm wrong or see if I'm lying or see if I'm twisting things. So I did two and a half years of just reading feminist literature. [sighs] It was rough, but I got through it. Uh, and what I found was, holy moly, most of these women, almost all, but m- certainly most, were into spiritualism, which was, like, a big 1800s movement of, like, trying to do seances and contact the dead, and things like that. Uh, theosophy, which combines, like, Eastern occult practices with, like, other Western traditions, um, ancient goddess worship, uh, New Age stuff, and even Satanism and Luciferianism. In fact, in my book, I cite a book that's a PhD thesis by a professor from Norway. His name's Per Faxneld. I don't know if that's the way you pronounce it, but that's how it's spelled, P-E-R. It's called, uh, Satanic Feminism, his book, and now he himself is a Satanist. He's a Luciferian himself, so he sees it as a good thing that the women of the 19th century openly declared Lucifer as their liberator and the mascot of their movement. Now, you would look back and think these were Christian women, because they were in, like, New England and stuff in, in the United States, Puritan communities and things like this, but they weren't. In fact, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and a bunch of her friends wrote something called The Woman's Bible in 1895, where they rewrote the Bible from a feminist perspective and took out the things that they thought, uh, were oppressive and patriarchal. And in the intro, Stanton herself says... I think her husband was a preacher maybe, or s- not- really involved with the church at the time. But she said: "I don't believe that any man has ever heard anything from God. I don't believe the Bible is divinely inspired. I think all of Christianity was made up specifically by men to oppress women. That's my personal belief." She was more of like a proto New Ager. She believed in, like, this monism stuff, and she said, "If I could-

    11. JR

      Monism?

    12. RW

      Yeah, monism is, like, the kind of... A lot of the New Age or even some of the DMT bros will kind of come to this conclusion that there's, like, a one that we have to return to, like we're all one, and we're all God, and we forgot that we need to return to the one.

    13. JR

      We're all God?

    14. RW

      Yeah, we're all-

    15. JR

      Yeah

    16. RW

      ... we're all God.

    17. JR

      I've heard that one before.

    18. RW

      Yeah, and we've got to return to the one. And, uh, they were writing about this stuff in, like, the early 1800s, as, like, transgenderism, gender abolition, gender as a spectrum, was being written about by Margaret Fuller in the 1840s in America. And she said, "We're never gonna return to the one as long as we have this gender division. So in the future, I'm envisioning a future with no gender. There's no men and women anymore." And she said, "Nobody's really born a man or a woman."

    19. JR

      Oh.

    20. RW

      "You're either... You're on this spectrum, and some people are more on the male side, and some people are more on the female, but nobody is, like, fully one or the other. It's a spectrum."

    21. JR

      I had that argument once with a guy who was a professor. It was one of the dumbest conversations [chuckles] I've ever had on this podcast.

    22. RW

      [laughs]

    23. JR

      And I, I eventually had to say to him, "If you go buy a puppy, and it's a boy puppy, but you wanted a girl puppy, do you say that there is no gender? What do you do?"

    24. RW

      Right.

    25. JR

      "Like, what do you do? Like, what are we talking about here? You're saying that some men don't exist, that men aren't real-

    26. RW

      Yeah

    27. JR

      ... that women aren't real?-

    28. RW

      Mm-hmm

    29. JR

      ... that no one is a man and no one is a woman? Like, that's crazy. How did you get here? You got here-... because someone with an XY chromosome had sex with someone with an XX chromosome, and that's how it works.

    30. RW

      Yeah.

  15. 1:51:06 – 2:12:49

    Jack Parsons, sex magic, Crowley, and counterculture spillover

    1. JR

      Um, w- I wanted to talk about Jack Parsons-

    2. RW

      Oh, yeah

    3. JR

      ... and, uh, all the craziness-

    4. RW

      [laughing]

    5. JR

      ... because we, we had, um, gone over the fact that this guy was, uh, working for NASA.

    6. RW

      Mm-hmm.

    7. JR

      He was involved in rocketry.

    8. RW

      Yes.

    9. JR

      And yet he was an avowed Satanist.

    10. RW

      Yes.

    11. JR

      And he got involved in the whole feminist movement.

    12. RW

      Yeah, through, through his girlfriend, Marjorie Cameron, who was like an archetype of the Scarlet Woman. So Parsons was kinda like, he created like a, a kind of an occult cult that was a break-off from Aleister Crowley and had a lot of Crowleyan beliefs. And when he met Marjorie Cameron, she was like this rebellious redhead, uh, who smoked and drank and slept around, and, like, all the Hollywood dudes in his circle kinda liked her. A lot of his friends slept with her, too [chuckles] . Um, and she was very into the occult, and she was really into, like, witchcraft and ritual magic, and so was he. And so when they met, it was, like, instant chemistry, and the rumor, the legend, is that they spent, like, I don't know, multiple, many days, even, like, up to a couple of weeks, nonstop doing sex magic together. Like, that's all they did for a couple weeks. They'd go-

    13. JR

      What is, what's sex magic?

    14. RW

      So according to, like, Crowley and a lot of these kind of, like, more openly Satanist, left-hand path type of occultism, the sexual experience and the orgasm is super powerful 'cause it can channel your emotions in a way that nothing else can. You get, like, this big surge of energy and emotion that will make whatever spell or ritual you're doing more powerful. So Crowley's favorite thing to do was sodomize fellas in order to, uh, wor- worship demons or invoke demons.

    15. JR

      [laughing]

    16. RW

      Yeah, he had, he had pets. He had dudes-

    17. JR

      Oh!

    18. RW

      ... that were his little-

    19. JR

      Boy

    20. RW

      ... his bottoms for his... I, I need to go, uh, conjure the demons.

    21. JR

      Was Crowley gay or bisexual?

    22. RW

      He was bi. He had a lot of women he would do this stuff with, too, but he thought that the homosexual stuff... Basically, the more degenerate-

    23. JR

      Right

    24. RW

      ... it is, the more intense it's gonna make the spell, so-

    25. JR

      Oh, boy.

    26. RW

      Mm-hmm.

    27. JR

      So he'd cast spells while he's butt fucking.

    28. RW

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      Ooh.

    30. RW

      Yep.

  16. 2:12:49 – 2:21:30

    Accountability, family structure, and what Rachel thinks a healthier model looks like

    1. RW

      I'd say if I gotta say anything else about it, um, I did not write this book-... nor do I talk about these things or debate feminists because I hate women. I do not hate women. I love women. I'm a woman, I have daughters, I have women in my life that I love, and-

    2. JR

      That's a crazy narrative.

    3. RW

      Yeah. Well, and people think, they'll say, like, "Why do women act so crazy nowadays? Why are they all so crazy?" And it's like, what do you think would happen if you took any group of humans and you said, "You are perfect the way you are. You are a goddess. You are strong, independent, whatever you are, you don't need to change. There's nothing to be improved upon, and if, if you do something wrong, it's only because a man somewhere hurt you or did something bad, and that's the only reason that you would do..." Like, we've removed accountability. We've given women more power than the balance- I think there was a balance already before feminism. Because you had women with the power over reproduction, and mate selection, and sexuality, and motherhood, um, and all the influence they have over men through those things, and then you had men with the monopoly on physical force and probably, like, political force and things like that. So there was kind of a balance, and what we did with feminism was we just completely threw it off, and now we're like, "No, men, you, you stay down. You be quiet. You're toxic. You're bad." You- like, schools, public schools are terrible for boys. "Sit down, be quiet, be like Susie. Uh, just use the highlighter and organize things by color, and s- be quiet, and still, and soft, and nice," and, you know, we HR manage boys to death now. And so we've thrown the balance off, and what we've done is give women all this power, but taken away all the accountability, and it's like, why would you not expect them to act a little crazy? Why would it not kinda spoil them? And I f- I don't think women are inherently bad. I think what feminism has done has made them a worse version of who they would be otherwise.

    4. JR

      Mm.

    5. RW

      I think we need accountability and responsibility. We need to have some self-sacrifice in life. We need to have the same inherent human struggle that men have and that all, all people have had, and we, we did before. So every time you look in history, this is a key thing if you are arguing with a feminist. If you're looking at history, and they say, "Look at this horrible thing. Women couldn't have this," or, "Women didn't do that," or, "There was stigma around this," ask yourself, was that also true for men? 'Cause it always is. It always is. Men didn't have this glorious, carefree existence, free of responsibility, where they had all the power and control but none of the accountability. That's a lie. That's a myth. But we've convinced women of that, so now we're trying to flip it the other way, and, yeah, women are acting crazy. We have Bonnie Blue, and we have, like, all these crazy OnlyFans girls, and, like, the only women online, besides me and a handful of others, are boss babes, and OnlyFans chicks, and Instagram models, and blue-haired, screeching feminists.

    6. JR

      [laughing]

    7. RW

      That's what we've ended up with. [chuckles] So it's like, I wrote it because I think feminism is bad for women, and I think it would help to... I think it's bad for everyone, and kids. I am no longer willing to sacrifice the welfare of children on the altar of feminism ever again. I won't do it, and if you want me to throw kids under the bus so that women can do blah, I don't care what it is, I'm not gonna do it. I wanna see kids growing up in loving families with both their parents. I wanna see community again. I wanna see families again, all the great stuff that we all lost from that, the loneliness epidemic, all the depression and the anxiety. Women have higher rates of substance abuse than ever in recorded history right now. 26-

    8. JR

      Do, don't men also have higher rates of substance abuse?

    9. RW

      No, it's actually stayed pretty static with men.

    10. JR

      Yeah?

    11. RW

      In fact, like, Gen Z boys hardly ever drink. Like, the-

    12. JR

      But what... Okay-

    13. RW

      -marijuana, I think they use more, but-

    14. JR

      But what about opioid addiction?

    15. RW

      The opioid epidemic, uh, is pretty, pretty much both, because I think it's kinda medically based. A lot of people get something-

    16. JR

      They get hurt

    17. RW

      ...get surgery or whatever.

    18. JR

      Yeah, and then they get hooked.

    19. RW

      Yeah, and they get hooked on it, and then they gotta go looking for it elsewhere.

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. RW

      Um, but women, we've never seen as high a rate of fetal alcohol syndrome in babies as we're seeing now, and alcoholism is much worse for women. Our bodies are smaller. Our livers don't handle toxic amounts of alcohol even as well as a man's. It's bad for men-

    22. JR

      Right

    23. RW

      ...it's even worse for women. Uh, 26% of American women are in, on at least one psychiatric prescription drug.

    24. JR

      Yeah.

    25. RW

      That's nuts.

    26. JR

      That's nuts.

    27. RW

      And they did something, they're... In my book, I covered t- uh, the- a big study called, um, The Paradox of Female Happiness, and this came out in 2008, I think, and it made huge waves, where they did this giant survey of women. Uh, they had done one in the '70s, and they were repeating it, you know, 40-something years later to see, like, okay, we've had a lot of feminism. Are women doing better? And on every metric they measured, women reported being less fulfilled, less happy, and less content than they did in the '70s before they were, like, fully liberated. Um, and they give a lot of reasons as to why, you know, the, the burden of having to juggle work and home, and the expectations of, versus reality of what feminism sold them, and things like that. And then they did a repeat study several years later that was even more comprehensive, where they went to other countries, and other societies, and different types of places, and did another survey about women's happiness. 'Cause now feminism is pretty global. There's only a few places in the world where it hasn't really taken hold yet. So they, they were like, "We should check other places." [chuckles] And the authors of the study opened with something that I thought was kind of funny. They said, "Regardless of where you look, culture, economic status, religion, it doesn't seem to matter. Women everywhere and always are less happy than men." And they, they said the reasons for that are somewhat biological. We have, like, hormonal fluctuations that men don't deal with. You know, things like periods and menopause and all that sort of stuff, and we're just less emotionally stable. Women experience three times the mental illness than men do.... and, and it could be for many reasons. We could, like, try to tear all that apart, but feminism hasn't made women happier. It hasn't men- made them safer. I don't think it's really given them more choices, it's just given them kinda different choices. Um, and children are suffering the most, and when you tear apart the family unit, which is what the Marxist feminists said was their explicit purpose, because property rights are passed down through men, men, uh, you know, build businesses and own properties the most, and pass it down to their kids. So they're like, "We gotta get rid of this fatherhood stuff, the patriarchy. We gotta get rid of the family unit." Um, especially like the Leninist ones, where, like, Lenin should be the daddy.

    28. JR

      Mm.

    29. RW

      The government should be the daddy, um, because-

    30. JR

      Yeah, and you see that with a lot of socialist-leaning cities-

Episode duration: 2:21:30

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