Joe Rogan Experience #2466 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

Speaker 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

Guest 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Speaker 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat rock music]

Joe Rogan 0:12 Okay, so when we scheduled this, like, there was nothing happening.

Konstantin Kisin 0:15 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 0:15 The world was so peaceful.

Konstantin Kisin 0:16 Every time we're here-

Joe Rogan 0:17 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 0:18 ... something crazy is going on, man.

Joe Rogan 0:20 Yeah, uh, maybe we manifest it. I don't know.

Francis Foster 0:23 To be honest, it did s- 2026 did start with a bang.

Joe Rogan 0:27 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 0:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:28 Yeah. Well, a lot of things, you know... It's just nothing seems stable everywhere. Everywhere in the world seems fucked right now. Like, this is the like, in all of my years, this seems the most unstable globally. Like, I never worried that the UK was gonna be, like, complete chaos-

Konstantin Kisin 0:50 Mm

Joe Rogan 0:50 ... arresting 12,000 people for social media posts-

Konstantin Kisin 0:54 Mm

Joe Rogan 0:54 ... and, uh, abandoning trial by jury, all that, all that shit. I never thought the Ukraine-Russia war would go on this long.

Konstantin Kisin 1:02 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:03 Never thought.

Konstantin Kisin 1:03 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:04 Never thought they would just continue bombing Gaza, and then what's happening now? They just sort of stop, and now they're talking about putting a resort there.

Konstantin Kisin 1:15 [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:15 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:16 What? Are you...

Konstantin Kisin 1:17 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:17 Like, you hear that, and you go, "Are you fucking serious?"

Konstantin Kisin 1:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:21 Tim Dillon has a g- I wanna, I wanna, I won't give the bit away. He has a fucking phenomenal bit about staying in that resort. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:29 [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:29 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:30 Yeah, and you boys have been busy as well, Joe.

Joe Rogan 1:32 Yeah, and then, you know, I was gonna get to that.

Konstantin Kisin 1:34 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:35 The embarrassing part. Uh, uh, w- in the middle of Ramadan, you take out the leader of a Muslim country, and, uh-

Konstantin Kisin 1:44 They're hangry already, and you're fucking with it.

Joe Rogan 1:46 Well, no.

Konstantin Kisin 1:48 [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:48 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:48 They're... Really, yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:50 They're hangry.

Joe Rogan 1:50 They can't even drink water.

Konstantin Kisin 1:51 Right.

Francis Foster 1:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:52 And then, you know, uh, I was listening to Tim Dillon's podcast today. Uh, he's got a great podcast with, uh, Ryan Grim and one other gentleman. But one of the things that they br- brought up was that some of these drone attacks, it doesn't even seem like they're from Iran, some of these drone attra- attacks on Gulf states.

Konstantin Kisin 2:12 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:12 Like that, the, one of them, um... I, I don't wanna speak out of tune, 'cause, out of turn, 'cause I don't, I'm don't, I'm not exactly sure which ones they're talking about, but they're talking about one of them on, um, either it's a oil refinery, I think it is an oil refinery, that it doesn't seem like it came from Iran.

Konstantin Kisin 2:31 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:32 So, okay-

Konstantin Kisin 2:32 Where did it come from?

Joe Rogan 2:33 That's a good question.

Konstantin Kisin 2:34 One of their proxies?

Joe Rogan 2:36 That's a good question.

Konstantin Kisin 2:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:37 Well, the, the fear is a false flag.

Konstantin Kisin 2:39 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:40 That's the fear.

Konstantin Kisin 2:40 Mm, mm.

Joe Rogan 2:41 Like, if you really wanted to get really scared of what we were dragged into-

Konstantin Kisin 2:45 Mm

Joe Rogan 2:46 ... you're dragged into an ally that's not telling you the truth and is also doing some other stuff.

Konstantin Kisin 2:51 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:52 Well, I'm not ne- even, uh, saying that that's the case, but a lot of people are assuming that that's what it is.

Francis Foster 2:58 But that's what happens when you have an absence of information.

Joe Rogan 3:01 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 3:01 Yeah.

Francis Foster 3:02 And so the moment you have an absence of information, there's a vacuum. And nature abhors a vacuum. You need to have that vacuum filled, so that's where conspiracies naturally flourish, because-

Joe Rogan 3:11 100%

Francis Foster 3:11 ... because if people don't have information, then they're going to basically theorize.

Joe Rogan 3:15 Right.

Francis Foster 3:16 And part of people theorizing is conspiracies are gonna start flourishing.

Joe Rogan 3:21 Well, I think they were basing it on the, where the drone came from. Like, let's see if we can find some information on that, Jamie.

Speaker 3:29 I will try. And it was, it was Jeremy Scahill was the other-

Joe Rogan 3:32 That's right

Speaker 3:32 ... reporter on the video.

Konstantin Kisin 3:35 I just find it amazing now how many people have, like, a hard take on, like, what's g- I'm like, what the... We don't know a fucking thing about what's g- Like-

Joe Rogan 3:43 Mm.

Konstantin Kisin 3:43 ... the coin is in the air, right?

Joe Rogan 3:44 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 3:44 And we do not know how it's gonna... But everyone's got a take.

Joe Rogan 3:47 Of course.

Konstantin Kisin 3:47 Every- everyone knows.

Joe Rogan 3:48 Yeah, of course.

Konstantin Kisin 3:49 Like, we do not fucking... I don't, I don't think anyone knows. Like, I understand if you, if you work at the White House, or if you work in Russian propaganda, or you work in Chinese propaganda, like, or if you work in Iranian, like, you've, you've got to get your point of view across to try and persuade people.

Joe Rogan 4:02 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 4:03 But if you're actually trying to work out what's genuinely happening, I don't think anyone knows how... This is a gamble of gigantic proportions.

Joe Rogan 4:11 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 4:11 And nobody knows how it's gonna end. Uh, it, it's like, it's just so unpredictable. And I can tell you a great story that is, like, positive for the, for the West, let's say, or for America. I can tell you a terrible story, and they both sound very convincing, and no one knows which one of them is true.

Joe Rogan 4:28 Yeah, that's a very good point. Uh, th- this is the hot take culture, right?

Konstantin Kisin 4:33 Right.

Francis Foster 4:33 Mm.

Joe Rogan 4:33 Every- everyone has a take, and they're, they want their take to be the expert take. So, uh, specific drone attack incidents that call potential false flags. Saudi Arabia, uh, Saudi, uh, Saudi A- Aramco, rather, um, oil facility attack. So Iranian officials deny striking the Saudi Aramco processing facility and instead suggest Israel may have carried out that attack as a false flag to inflame Gulf opinion and pull Saudi Arabia more directly into the war with Iran. So Ryan Grim explicitly says he thinks Iran's claims that Israel hit the Aramco facility need to be taken seriously, and that it's very possible Israel did it. And this was the other one, the drone strike on the British base in Cyprus.

Konstantin Kisin 5:17 That was from Lebanon, right?

Joe Rogan 5:19 Yeah. Is that what they're saying?

Konstantin Kisin 5:20 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:21 May have come from the direction of Lebanon. He places this in the same context of Iran claiming Israel carried out certain attacks in neighboring states as false flags to blame on Iran and drag those countries into the war.

Konstantin Kisin 5:33 Those countries... This, this doesn't make any logical sense to me, 'cause those countries are already in the war. I mean, Saudi Arabia and UAE have been attacked by Iran because they were on the phone to Trump basically asking him to do this.

Joe Rogan 5:47 Here's a... This is another weird one, the Tucker Carlson one.

Konstantin Kisin 5:50 Mm.

Joe Rogan 5:50 You saw that, right?

Konstantin Kisin 5:51 No.

Joe Rogan 5:52 So Tucker Carlson said that-

Konstantin Kisin 5:54 Oh, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 5:54 ... Mossad-

Konstantin Kisin 5:54 The alleged Mossad, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 5:56 ... had, that they'd been arrested.

Konstantin Kisin 5:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:57 That members of Mossad had been arrested in Qatar and Saudi Arabia. So, uh-

Konstantin Kisin 6:02 But both Qatar and Saudi Arabia have said it's not true.

Joe Rogan 6:04 Yeah. They've officially denied such arrests. Their own Saudi sources also denied it, though they note details don't prove it didn't happen, and that states would almost certainly hide such arrests if real. Huh.

Konstantin Kisin 6:18 Well, the thing, Joe, is that these countries, so Saudi Arabia and UAE, Qatar less so, they want this to happen 'cause they also hate Iran or the Iranian regime.

Joe Rogan 6:27 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 6:28 So there is no need for Israel, even if you, you know, you- if people are tempted to believe, there's no i- need for Israel to do this 'cause these countries are already in it.

Joe Rogan 6:38 Right.

Francis Foster 6:38 Mm.

Konstantin Kisin 6:39 N- and that one of the reasons that Iran has attacked things in Saudi Arabia and in the UAE is they know that, right?

Joe Rogan 6:46 Right, so what-

Konstantin Kisin 6:47 The Gulf countries are on board with this.

Joe Rogan 6:49 Right. So what would, uh, what would be it... Let, let's assume that the false flag th- that it's in play. W- who would... Why? Why would Israel... How would they benefit from doing that?

Konstantin Kisin 7:00 That's what I'm saying. There is no rationale that I can think of for doing this.

Joe Rogan 7:03 The people that think the false flag is real, like, why do they think that? Like-

Konstantin Kisin 7:06 Mm

Joe Rogan 7:06 ... what do they think that Israel would benefit from? Is there-

Konstantin Kisin 7:09 I think-

Joe Rogan 7:09 ... a scenario where you could imagine it would inflame things and s- further support other countries contributing to the... I mean, there's a lot of money that's being spent on this war, right?

Konstantin Kisin 7:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:20 It's like this is insane amount of money f- just for munitions, just for missiles.

Konstantin Kisin 7:25 Yeah, yeah. And then rebuilding Iran if we get to that, right?

Joe Rogan 7:27 Maybe another resort?

Konstantin Kisin 7:28 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 7:29 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 7:29 So, but I just don't see the rationale because the c- the Gulf countries are already targets for Iran.

Joe Rogan 7:35 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 7:35 There's nothing to inflame. Like, the situation is already p- pretty fucking inflamed, right? And it's partly inflamed because, as I say, actually the Gulf states and Israel are pretty aligned on this particular thing. N- they're all, um, at threat from the Iranian regime.

Joe Rogan 7:51 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 7:52 Um, so we, we had, uh, uh, Eamon Deen and Richard Miniter on our show, uh, the other day. The, one of them is a Al Qaeda MI6 double agent. Another one is a really r- reputable investigative journalist, Richard-

Joe Rogan 8:05 Al Qaeda MI6 double agent?

Konstantin Kisin 8:07 Yeah. Yeah.

Francis Foster 8:08 Mm.

Joe Rogan 8:08 Oh, what balls. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 8:10 And he, he has a great podcast now-

Francis Foster 8:11 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 8:11 ... as well called Conflicted. Uh... [laughs]

Joe Rogan 8:14 [laughs] What a great name-

Konstantin Kisin 8:15 Yeah

Joe Rogan 8:16 ... for a podcast-

Konstantin Kisin 8:16 Yeah

Joe Rogan 8:16 ... for a guy who was a double agent.

Konstantin Kisin 8:18 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:18 What balls that guy must have.

Konstantin Kisin 8:20 Yeah.

Francis Foster 8:20 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 8:20 Yeah, yeah. He's a really, really cool guy. Uh, but anyway, I mean, he was explaining that, uh, Saudi Arabia has a population that is way bigger than what they can sustain in terms of the water. But they live in the fucking desert, so they have these desalination plants which are extremely vulnerable. Uh, and Saudi Arabia, UAE, these other countries, they felt at huge risk from Iranian attacks for a long time. Th- so they w- th- none of them like the Iranian regime that's spreading terrorism through its proxies. So in actual fact, dragging them into the war, kinda like there's no sense for that. I think there's a lot of people just, they, they go to reaction now whenever anything happens, is that it was Israel's fault.

Joe Rogan 8:59 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 8:59 You know? Like Venezuela, fuck all to do with Israel, but when it happened, everyone's like, "Oh, it's Israel." I, I think some people just go to that now as the automatic response, which it comes back to what I was saying earlier about the hot take culture.

Joe Rogan 9:11 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 9:12 Something happened three minutes ago, and now everyone's got a fucking take on it. You don't know anything.

Francis Foster 9:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:16 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 9:16 None of us know anything.

Joe Rogan 9:18 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 9:18 None of us know how this is gonna go 'cause this right now is a highly unpredictable situation. I don't think the White House knows how this is gonna go.

Joe Rogan 9:27 No, it's terrifying. It, it's terrifying, and it's exactly the opposite of what we were told leading into this administration.

Konstantin Kisin 9:34 Mm.

Joe Rogan 9:34 That it's gonna be America first.

Konstantin Kisin 9:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 9:36 And no more unnecessary foreign wars.

Konstantin Kisin 9:39 Mm.

Joe Rogan 9:39 I th- there's the other thing that... Do you remember Desert Storm?

Konstantin Kisin 9:42 Yeah.

Francis Foster 9:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:43 Desert Storm, quick and easy, baby. Woo, we went in, kicked some ass-

Konstantin Kisin 9:47 Mm

Joe Rogan 9:47 ... took some names. That's a wrap.

Konstantin Kisin 9:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:49 Pulled out. There was only one base that got hit, so there was... The, the amount-

Konstantin Kisin 9:52 Mm

Joe Rogan 9:52 ... of deaths by American citizens was fairly minimal.

Konstantin Kisin 9:55 Mm.

Joe Rogan 9:56 I think that's what got people so confident into entering Iran after 9/11, or excuse me, Iraq after 9/11.

Konstantin Kisin 10:03 Mm.

Joe Rogan 10:03 To go back-

Konstantin Kisin 10:04 Mm

Joe Rogan 10:04 ... like we already fucked them up once.

Konstantin Kisin 10:05 Mm.

Joe Rogan 10:05 We're gonna go back, and this is gonna be easy. Well, it wasn't easy the second time.

Konstantin Kisin 10:09 Mm.

Joe Rogan 10:09 And it was drawn out, and it didn't make any sense, but people wanted some form of revenge-

Konstantin Kisin 10:14 Mm

Joe Rogan 10:14 ... something for 9/11, and so somehow or another they justified a war with a country that had z- zero to do with it.

Konstantin Kisin 10:21 Mm.

Joe Rogan 10:21 Like, it didn't even make sense.

Konstantin Kisin 10:22 Mm.

Joe Rogan 10:23 That one took for... And then we a- also invaded Afghanistan at the same time. Like, what do we do? What the fuck? So in the fog of this idea of American exceptionalism, we're just gonna go in and fix it. We did it before. There's no one even close to us. Well, look how that turned out.

Konstantin Kisin 10:38 Mm.

Francis Foster 10:38 Uh, yeah, well, this is completely true, and then it's this idea that it's so easy to take one regime, remove it-

Joe Rogan 10:44 Right

Francis Foster 10:44 ... and then just put another one in its place, like it's a Lego block.

Joe Rogan 10:47 Exactly.

Francis Foster 10:47 And then all, all of a sudden, you're going to magically fix a country, is a fantasy. Like, if you take Iran, the IRGC, which is the Islamic Revolutionary Guard, numbers around 200,000 trained soldiers. And not only are they trained soldiers, they're fanatical. They're fanatics. And then you have the secret police, and then you have the regular police.

Joe Rogan 11:09 Mm.

Francis Foster 11:09 And then you have the people employed in the government, and then their families, and so on and so forth, and then their supporters within the country. And then you've got the various factions within Iran, like the Kurds, who want independence.

Joe Rogan 11:21 Mm.

Francis Foster 11:21 So the moment the, the leadership is weakened, they're gonna use it as an opportunity to launch their own revolution to try and break away from the rest of Iran. So you have all of these particular parts b- play, these factions, and then you think if you take out the top, the guy at the top who's holding it all together by force, I'm not saying I agree with him or I... what he does, you have the very real risk that the entire country is going to disintegrate, as what happened in Iran, in Iraq, sorry.

Joe Rogan 11:52 Mm. And also Libya.

Francis Foster 11:53 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 11:53 Yeah. That was a big risk.

Joe Rogan 11:55 Yeah, but the, the idea that you could just take the guy out and that's a wrap, uh, the... I mean, it doesn't seem like it's well thought out. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 12:04 Well, it, I mean, I guess-

Joe Rogan 12:05 To be charitable

Konstantin Kisin 12:06 ... they would say Venezuela, right? Like a regime adjustment.

Joe Rogan 12:09 It, it's a completely-

Konstantin Kisin 12:09 But it's been two months

Joe Rogan 12:10 ... different kind of re-

Konstantin Kisin 12:11 Yeah. Yeah, of course. Of course

Joe Rogan 12:12 ... this, this is a religious, fanatical-

Konstantin Kisin 12:14 Right. Right

Joe Rogan 12:14 ... it's a totally different-

Konstantin Kisin 12:15 Yeah

Joe Rogan 12:15 ... kind of country. Also, it's a country that's been under threat for decades.

Konstantin Kisin 12:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:19 Right?

Konstantin Kisin 12:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:19 So they've been preparing for this kind of thing.

Konstantin Kisin 12:21 Yeah.

Francis Foster 12:22 Yeah. And also with Venezuela, it wasn't a regime change. Practically everybody who was in the old regime is still there.

Konstantin Kisin 12:28 It's a regime adjustment.

Francis Foster 12:29 Exactly. [laughs] Exactly.

Konstantin Kisin 12:30 Yeah.

Francis Foster 12:31 So Delcy Rodriguez was one of the senior leaders in Ma- uh, Maduro's regime. They just took out Maduro and his wife, they put Delcy Rodriguez there, but the whole structureThe whole leadership, the whole party is still in place. So they've just... What they've done is they put Delcy at the top, and they've said to her, "Look, if you fuck about, you're gonna get what your boss got. So you're gonna follow what we say. You're gonna do what we say. You are gonna open up the oil refineries. We're gonna build it. We're gonna s- you're gonna start pumping oil out. You're gonna stop messing about with Hezbollah," which they had training camps in the island of Margarita, which is a little Caribbean island two and a half hours away from Miami. Training camps, you can't have that. You're not gonna be fraternizing with the Cubans, and you're gonna play ball. And essentially, Venezuela is now a colony of the United States. That's what it's now become.

Joe Rogan 13:23 That's wild. Well, there's also [laughs] the Kurt Metzger angle, which is hilarious.

Francis Foster 13:28 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 13:29 Ku- Kurt Metzger cornered me one night at the co-

Francis Foster 13:31 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 13:31 ... at the mothership, and, uh, he explained to me that this was all about the 2020 election.

Francis Foster 13:37 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 13:37 And that Maduro somehow or another had something to do with rigging the 2020 election, and he's going to say it as a part of his testimony. He's like, "Just wait. Just wait. Mark my words."

Francis Foster 13:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:52 So he's, he's convinced of this.

Francis Foster 13:54 Mm.

Joe Rogan 13:55 He goes down the rabbit hole to the lava.

Francis Foster 13:59 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 13:59 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 13:59 Like, he passes, and he's like, "This rabbit hole's been covered up."

Francis Foster 14:02 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:03 It goes deeper.

Konstantin Kisin 14:04 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:04 And he keep, he keeps going till he's at the fucking center of the earth.

Konstantin Kisin 14:08 He's a funny guy, though.

Joe Rogan 14:08 Oh, he's hilarious. He's hilarious. He's mentally ill.

Konstantin Kisin 14:11 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:11 But he's hilarious. He's one of the funniest people I know.

Konstantin Kisin 14:14 Mm.

Joe Rogan 14:14 Like, ever. Fantastic joke writer, too.

Konstantin Kisin 14:16 Mm.

Joe Rogan 14:16 I mean, he's just great all around. But Jesus Christ, like, some of his nutty theories, they go so far.

Francis Foster 14:24 Oh, absolutely. I've, I've been in m- in bars with Kurt where he starts talking-

Joe Rogan 14:27 [laughs]

Francis Foster 14:27 ... to me, and I'm like, "Kurt, I, I, I don't even know what we're talking about anymore." [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 14:31 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:31 Well, he changes s- he changes conspiracies mid-sentence.

Konstantin Kisin 14:35 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:36 He starts bringing up some shit from the '70s, and there's the church committee, and this and that, and MKUltra.

Francis Foster 14:41 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:41 And don't you know about Monarch?

Konstantin Kisin 14:43 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:43 Like, what? It was... Slow down. Like, not everybody knows what you're talking about.

Francis Foster 14:48 But I, I think this is... And look, I love Kurt, but this is kind of where you feel that the truth isn't enough, so you-

Joe Rogan 14:57 Right

Francis Foster 14:57 ... there needs to be something else.

Joe Rogan 14:58 Well-

Francis Foster 14:59 There needs to be something that goes deeper than that. And sometimes there is. Don't get me wrong. Sometimes it does go deeper. But sometimes, like, you're making connections where there are no connections. Like-

Joe Rogan 15:09 Yeah

Francis Foster 15:09 ... it's pretty simple with Venezuela, what was going on. They were fucking about, and they were doing it for a long time, and they were doing it in America's backyard, and they had warning after warning. And Maduro, the way I'd push back against Kurt is, I'm really sorry, Kurt, but Maduro ain't that bright.

Joe Rogan 15:25 Well, I don't think he has to be that bright to finance and make sure th- and arrange things, because they did... There was, like, some- something connected to the voting machines-

Francis Foster 15:35 Mm

Joe Rogan 15:35 ... that were there.

Konstantin Kisin 15:36 They made those claims.

Joe Rogan 15:37 Here's the conspiracy theories.

Konstantin Kisin 15:37 Wasn't that woman Sidney Powell, was it?

Francis Foster 15:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:39 Yeah. [laughs] Here we go. She's another fun one. [laughs] Um, post-2020 from Trump allies like Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani claiming Hugo Chávez, Maduro's predecessor, developed rigged software to export to US firms. These were promoted by figures like Mike Lindell, who makes a great pillow. You should listen to him. And amplified on social media, but courts and fact checks rejected them, including Fox News'-

Konstantin Kisin 16:02 Right

Joe Rogan 16:03 ... 708, 787 million, uh, Dominion settlement.

Konstantin Kisin 16:07 Yeah, I was gonna say, I was pretty sure that those claims were debunked.

Joe Rogan 16:11 Yeah, not to Kurt. They didn't reach him.

Francis Foster 16:13 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 16:14 He's like, "You guys don't know where the hard drives are."

Konstantin Kisin 16:16 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 16:16 "They're in the center of the earth. We gotta get there." Um, yeah, that doesn't make much sense to me, but, uh, neither does this idea that you're gonna take over a country's oil supply.

Konstantin Kisin 16:27 Mm.

Joe Rogan 16:27 You know? Like, that... You know, we'll just take it. That... The, the problem is from the outside, like, the rest of the world, you, you look at this unnecessary aggression by the United States government, and then you tack on whatever propaganda they have already been spitting out-

Francis Foster 16:42 Mm

Joe Rogan 16:43 ... about America for the last 20 or 30 years, and then this war with Iran gets really ugly, because that's how you start a World War III. You start a World War III by doing something that, uh, other than people that wanted this forever, who else thinks that's a good idea?

Francis Foster 17:00 Mm.

Joe Rogan 17:01 Who else thinks it's a good idea to just attack a country that isn't doing anything? They haven't done anything. Like, if you've proof that they have developed, uh, y- the depleted uranium, and they've got it up to a point where it's, they've got it to what it ha- what, what, what percentage does it have to be? Like, they're at 60, right?

Konstantin Kisin 17:18 Mm-hmm. But that's way more than you need, I think.

Joe Rogan 17:20 Way more than you need.

Konstantin Kisin 17:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:21 Right? So it shows that they're at least ramping up their production where it's possible to get it to-

Konstantin Kisin 17:26 Yeah

Joe Rogan 17:26 ... whatever it needs to make a nuclear weapon.

Konstantin Kisin 17:27 That's way more than you need for civilian use.

Joe Rogan 17:29 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 17:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:30 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 17:30 Um-

Joe Rogan 17:30 But that still... It's not clear that that justifies an invasion when North Korea has nuclear weapons.

Konstantin Kisin 17:37 Right.

Francis Foster 17:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:37 Right? It's like, do we just want... Are we just trying to prevent them from ever getting to a point where they're like North Korea? Who the fuck is worried about North Korea?

Konstantin Kisin 17:45 Ze-

Joe Rogan 17:45 Zero people. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Look, if you're trying to take your business seriously, you gotta level up your website. Mine, joerogan.com, is powered by Squarespace. It's a no-brainer because it does all the hard stuff for you. They've got everything in one place. You can lock down your domain, make your stuff look clean and professional, build your brand, get paid, all of it. Go to squarespace.com/rogan and try it out for free. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code Rogan to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Konstantin Kisin 18:24 I think the difference, as you correctly said earlier, is these people are very different to the North Koreans, right?

Joe Rogan 18:29 Right. Religious fanatics.

Konstantin Kisin 18:29 North Korea wants to be left the fuck alone.

Joe Rogan 18:32 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 18:32 Iran does not want to be left alone. Iran wants to dominate the region. That's why they fund Hamas.

Joe Rogan 18:37 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 18:37 It's why they fund Hezbollah. It's why they fund the Houthis. It's why they are doing shitThat's why the Gulf countries and Israel are very worried about them, right? So that's the difference, I think. And then there's the, you know, uh, some of the people we've had on the show who are Iranian have talked about the pat- the s- what is it called? Twelver Shia Islam? Is that the...

Francis Foster 18:57 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 18:57 I can't remember the details, but basically they have a kind of messianic vision of what's gonna happen, and they, they believe that when the world ends, that's when the prophecy will be fulfilled. You don't want those guys with nuclear weapons, right?

Joe Rogan 19:11 That's a good point.

Konstantin Kisin 19:12 Yeah. So from that perspective, it's different to North Korea.

Joe Rogan 19:15 Mm.

Konstantin Kisin 19:15 Um, and so that, that's, I think that's part of the thinking. But your, your point is interesting to me about the fact that this doesn't reflect what people, the m- you know, as we're not Americans, but it doesn't seem to have been part of the policy platform of the Trump, uh, election at the last election, right?

Joe Rogan 19:34 No, not at all.

Konstantin Kisin 19:35 But I do think there is some kind of strategy behind all of this, and I'm very curious what that is. Uh, because I guess, uh, if, if you think about it logically, you would say, well, is it an attempt to effectively push back against China and Russia infiltrating all these countries, right? China and, and Russia were very close with Ven- with Maduro in Venezuela.

Joe Rogan 19:55 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 19:55 Very, very... Like Francis is saying, Hezbollah training camps, Isla Margarita. Where was the oil going, right? Same with Iran. I mean, Iran sells its oil to China-

Joe Rogan 20:04 Mm

Konstantin Kisin 20:04 ... uh, and s- sends suicide drones to Russia to use in Ukraine. So m- maybe it's that. Maybe the strategy is you're trying to push back against Chinese and Russian influence in, in all these countries because you can't attack them directly, 'cause you can't attack them directly, right?

Joe Rogan 20:20 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 20:21 Uh, but this is all just guessing on, on my part, and that's what I'm really curious. We're gonna do some interviews on this trip to kind of... Like, I wanna get someone on the show who can go, "This is the strategy."

Joe Rogan 20:31 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 20:31 "This is what we're doing."

Joe Rogan 20:32 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 20:32 'Cause I think, as we were saying earlier, it's not very clear to most people what the rationale behind all of this is, but I also don't think this sort of, like, mad dog Trump idea is true either. I think he has a strategy. I'd just love to know what it is.

Francis Foster 20:47 And it's very interesting because there's been talk about regime change in Cuba.

Konstantin Kisin 20:53 Mm.

Francis Foster 20:53 And one of the things... So wh- [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 20:55 I think that's next.

Francis Foster 20:56 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 20:56 Genuinely.

Joe Rogan 20:57 Oh, my God.

Konstantin Kisin 20:58 I think that's next.

Francis Foster 20:59 So when Chávez came to power in '99, what he did, and not enough people talk about this, is he turned what was a very corrupt, admittedly, liberal, Western-style democracy into a communist dictatorship. And how do you do that? You, you can't just literally do that overnight. So what he did is he allied with the Cubans and, um, Fidel in particular, Fidel Castro. Venezuela provided Cuba with cheap oil, which helped to keep the Cuban economy afloat, 'cause Cuba's been going broke since however many years, 40-odd years. And what Castro did was he gave him the boots on the ground in Venezuela, but also the technical expertise and know-how in order to change a Western liberal democracy into a communist state with permanent surveillance, secret police, subjugate the population, so there was no chance of them ever being able to revolt, and ma- make every... and turn everything into, like I said, into a communist state. So by what they did in Venezuela, Venezuela can no longer support Cuba, so Cuba is literally now withering on the vine as a result-

Konstantin Kisin 22:07 Mm

Francis Foster 22:07 ... of them knocking out the Venezuelans.

Joe Rogan 22:09 Mm.

Francis Foster 22:10 So it's gonna come to a point where you could say Cuba are effectively gonna go bankrupt, which could precipitate an uprising, a revolution by people when people can no longer eat, and that would mean that that country's then weakened. Finally, they can get rid of the communist regime there, and they can have a different type of government, one which will be far more sympathetic, shall we say, to working with America and being an American island.

Konstantin Kisin 22:35 See-

Francis Foster 22:36 Possibly

Konstantin Kisin 22:36 ... that makes sense to me in a way. What I don't understand about the Iran thing is, like, what is the end goal here? Like, you've got the Reza Pahlavi, the Shah's son. I mean, he left Iran a long time ago as a kid, right? The, you know, the idea that he's gonna go back in there and be welcomed by the masses, uh, maybe that's true. Maybe that's-

Joe Rogan 22:55 It's like Daenerys returning to the-

Francis Foster 22:57 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 22:57 ... Iron Throne. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 22:58 Yeah, but Daenery- Daenerys had three fucking dragons.

Francis Foster 23:01 Exactly. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 23:02 Right? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 23:03 But you know what I'm saying? Like, she left when she was a baby.

Konstantin Kisin 23:05 Yeah, that's right.

Francis Foster 23:06 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 23:06 That's right.

Francis Foster 23:07 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 23:07 And the pe- it's not like the people are desperately... I, I don't know. Maybe the people are desperate for the return of the Shah's son.

Joe Rogan 23:11 Well, it seems like some people are desperate for a change there, the people that were protesting.

Konstantin Kisin 23:16 100%.

Francis Foster 23:16 Of course.

Joe Rogan 23:16 The people that risked their lives.

Konstantin Kisin 23:17 100%.

Francis Foster 23:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:17 100%. But like every country, like, if you only listen to the liberals in this country, you, you would think that, uh, you know, that no one's illegal on stolen land.

Konstantin Kisin 23:27 Right.

Francis Foster 23:27 Mm.

Joe Rogan 23:27 If you only listen to the Republicans in this country, you would think we gotta find every illegal and get them out of our country and make America great again.

Konstantin Kisin 23:35 Mm.

Joe Rogan 23:35 Like, this, it doesn't make sense-

Konstantin Kisin 23:37 Right

Joe Rogan 23:37 ... if we just go only by the protesters. Like, we don't really have accurate polling 'cause they don't have any free speech over there.

Konstantin Kisin 23:44 Right.

Francis Foster 23:44 No.

Joe Rogan 23:44 And they've, they've killed, like, famous athletes over there for protesting.

Konstantin Kisin 23:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:49 I mean, they killed the Olympic gold medalist in wrestling.

Konstantin Kisin 23:52 Mm.

Joe Rogan 23:52 The UFC tried to step in and try to do something to stop it. They end up, they executed him.

Konstantin Kisin 23:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:56 For just... I, apparently, uh, I don't even think he was actually protesting. I think he was just at a protest.

Konstantin Kisin 24:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:02 He wasn't even saying anything. You know?

Francis Foster 24:04 And this is the thing you always have to bear in mind, Joe, um-

Joe Rogan 24:07 I might be wrong about that, though.

Konstantin Kisin 24:08 No, I think you are right.

Joe Rogan 24:09 Am I right about that?

Konstantin Kisin 24:09 Uh, the, the, the fin- final details I'm not sure, but the fact that he was executed.

Joe Rogan 24:13 Yes, he was executed.

Konstantin Kisin 24:14 I know Dana worked very hard to try and save that guy, right?

Joe Rogan 24:16 I think, I think there was, there was some discrepancy as to whether or not he was actually participating-

Konstantin Kisin 24:20 Oh, I see

Joe Rogan 24:20 ... in the, the protest.

Konstantin Kisin 24:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:23 That also could have been the defense, you know? I don't know. But, I mean, the fact that they d- execute people who protest, I mean, there's no way you can support that kind of... That's a scary-ass fucking government, and run by f- religious fanatics. That's a scary-ass government. But the question is like how scary-ass does it have to get where invading makes sense? Because if, if this keeps going, like if we, we have to go boots on the ground. That's where things get nuts.

Konstantin Kisin 24:48 You can't go boots on the ground, man. You can't.You can't.

Joe Rogan 24:51 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 24:52 I don't, I, but I don't think there's any appetite for-

Joe Rogan 24:54 I think you should be president of the United States. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 24:57 [laughs] There's a lot of people who are gonna disagree with that. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 25:02 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 25:02 No, I, I, I, I don't think that's viable. Just like, I-

Joe Rogan 25:06 Well, it might be robot boots on the ground.

Konstantin Kisin 25:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:08 You know, if Elon gets that factory open in time. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 25:10 But what I wanna know is, like, what is it that, what is, what is it you're working towards?

Joe Rogan 25:15 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 25:16 Right? Like, so from what, what, what I understand, talking to some of the people, like, Israel would quite like a Reza Pahlavi monarchy. 'Cause the other Middle Eastern countries that they have peace with, you know-

Joe Rogan 25:29 Right

Konstantin Kisin 25:29 ... Bahrain, Morocco, uh, increasingly the Gulf states, they're all monarchies.

Joe Rogan 25:34 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 25:34 Right?

Joe Rogan 25:35 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 25:35 They, so they're down with that. But from what I understand, the White House is really not that interested in Pahlavi. And so what, one-

Joe Rogan 25:43 What do they want?

Konstantin Kisin 25:44 Well, one of the things that Richard Miniter broke on our show, 'cause it hadn't been reported anywhere else, was that the White House has given the Israelis a no-kill list, which is basically a list of members of the current regime that they don't want to be killed, 'cause they have hope that these people could then be the, uh, Rodriguez equivalent in Iran, right? And I, I don't know that the fanatics within the Iranian regime who are there now, how many of them are like this mo- like Darth Vader, but like-

Joe Rogan 26:15 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 26:15 Like, do you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 26:16 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 26:16 You're kinda looking for-

Joe Rogan 26:17 Darth Vader Zero.

Konstantin Kisin 26:19 Yeah, no, no, no.

Joe Rogan 26:20 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 26:20 No Islam... [laughs] Zero Islamism.

Joe Rogan 26:22 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 26:22 Like, I, I don't know that that exists, right?

Joe Rogan 26:25 Right. Sugar-free.

Konstantin Kisin 26:26 Sugar-free. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:26 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 26:26 Islamism-free

Joe Rogan 26:28 Sugar-free Vader

Konstantin Kisin 26:28 Yeah. So, so that's the bit. And that doesn't mean that there isn't, like, a plan.

Joe Rogan 26:33 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 26:33 But I don't know what the fuck that plan is right now, and I find it hard to see one.

Joe Rogan 26:37 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 26:37 So regi- evil regime gone, wonderful. But what... But the question is always, like, what comes after that?

Joe Rogan 26:43 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 26:43 That's always the question. And that's where I think your point is very true, which is in the past, there have been times where this sort of approach has gone completely off the rails.

Joe Rogan 26:51 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 26:52 That's a fact.

Francis Foster 26:53 And it's also, as well, what has been coming out of the Trump camp is contradictory, to put it mildly. You have Hegseth saying one thing, you have Trump saying another. They contradict each other at certain points. Is that a tactic in order to befuddle the opponent? Maybe. W- who knows? Or is it the fact that they don't actually have a grand vision?

Joe Rogan 27:10 Was, was there some sort of a concession today on Russian oil?

Konstantin Kisin 27:14 Yeah. Well, I think the, it... First of all, Trump let, uh, India buy Iranian oil.

Francis Foster 27:19 Mm.

Konstantin Kisin 27:20 And I think now they are lifting the sanctions on Russia selling its oil because the oil prices spiked as much as they did, right?

Francis Foster 27:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:27 Here it goes.

Konstantin Kisin 27:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:27 "US eases limits on Russian energy as oil prices soar."

Konstantin Kisin 27:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 27:31 [sings] Dum, dum, da-dum, dum.

Francis Foster 27:33 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 27:33 Dum, dum, dum, dum. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 27:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:37 Money. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 27:39 Well-

Francis Foster 27:40 Yeah, well, you've got the Pink Floyd to you-

Joe Rogan 27:41 Yeah, I know

Francis Foster 27:41 ... so it's appropriate.

Joe Rogan 27:43 It's perfect. Perfect.

Konstantin Kisin 27:43 But you, you can see it. Like, the oil, oil prices spiked for-

Joe Rogan 27:47 Mm-hmm

Konstantin Kisin 27:47 ... for what? One day? Two days?

Joe Rogan 27:48 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 27:49 And everyone went full panic-

Joe Rogan 27:51 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 27:51 ... straight away. But the thing is, if that d- if that carries on for two months, the impact of that on domestic politics, I mean, I'm not an expert on American politics, but even I can say that's gonna be pretty fucking important.

Joe Rogan 28:03 Oh, it's bad.

Konstantin Kisin 28:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 28:05 Yeah. It's gonna be bad. I mean, if oil prices spike, we're fucked.

Konstantin Kisin 28:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:09 You know? And the Republicans are really fucked.

Konstantin Kisin 28:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:13 'Cause-

Konstantin Kisin 28:13 And you've got the midterms coming up

Joe Rogan 28:13 ... you got the midterms coming up in November, and it's also the momentum will be in their way.

Francis Foster 28:19 And look, there's, you know, second, third, fourth order consequences. So at the moment in the UK, the vast majority of people find it in, are finding it more and more difficult just to get through to the end of the month.

Konstantin Kisin 28:30 Mm.

Francis Foster 28:31 Because of the cost of living, inflation, it's becoming worse and worse. I was talking to a, a butcher in my area, which is this very nice part of North London. You know the type of, um, place I'm talking about. Everyone loves BLM, no one has a Black friend. That kind of place, right?

Konstantin Kisin 28:47 [laughs]

Francis Foster 28:48 [laughs] Okay? That's the kind of area it is. And he was telling me that even in this very wealthy area, people are starting to ration meat now. So before they'd have meat five days a week, now they're going down to three or two. And this is in a wealthy area. So now imagine if there's energy spikes-

Konstantin Kisin 29:04 Mm

Francis Foster 29:04 ... and then food becomes more and more expensive. There is already a very worrying hard left political movement growing in the UK.

Konstantin Kisin 29:13 Right.

Francis Foster 29:13 Where they're talking about, you know, the, capitalism doesn't work, we need socialism, and there's a wh- there's this new politician come to the fore, a guy called Zach Polanski, who talks about what we need in this country and m- and the UK is socialism. Now, imagine if the cost of living crisis gets worse, and the vast majority of people w- who work hard in a regular job can't make ends meet through literal no fault of their own. Can you blame them for going, "Hang on, capitalism doesn't work"? Because in this instance, at that moment, it doesn't work for them.

Konstantin Kisin 29:46 Mm.

Francis Foster 29:47 And then you could, that could spark something completely disastrous for our country.

Konstantin Kisin 29:52 Yeah. But I think, you know, that's the negative story, and I think it's incredibly persuasive, and I lean more in the direction that this could go badly. But I also think there is the possibility of th- this goes well, too. I, I think that is possible. Um-

Joe Rogan 30:06 What do you, how do you envision that scenario?

Konstantin Kisin 30:08 Well, so if, if they're able to keep the Strait of Hormuz open, and you don't have this energy problems that we've got now, um, you know, y- Venezuela, Cuba, he's basically resetting the region, and he's basically saying to all the people that want to align themselves with China and Russia, "Like, we're not fucking about here. Do, don't cross these lines." That is an opportunity to, to, to address the slide that the Western world has had vis-a-vis China and Russia for a very long time. That could be a very positive thing. My... The thing is, what happens in Iran, like, that is the thing that I don't really see how that goes well. Might, might do. Like I said, there's probably a plan that we don't know, and if, if that works out, that could be very good.

Joe Rogan 30:52 Does it?Well, okay, what would you imagine that plan would be? If you, if you... Like, let's, let's imag- Best case scenario, you're in the White House, they're all very rational. No one's being influenced by foreign govern- governments.

Konstantin Kisin 31:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:06 No one's incompetent. Everybody knows what they're doing.

Konstantin Kisin 31:09 Well, yeah. I mean, we're, we're in the realms of fantasy now.

Joe Rogan 31:11 That's why I like to go there. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 31:14 [laughs] But, I mean, take the Soviet Union, which is obviously something that I know, right? Being born in the Soviet Union, Russia. Towards the end of the Soviet Union, you still had some fanatical communists, and in fact, throughout the Soviet Union, you always had within the government a mixture of different people, right?

Joe Rogan 31:30 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 31:30 You had the fanatical communists who believed that communism is the only thing that was ever gonna work, et cetera. But you also had people who were reformers. They saw the problems. They saw the, the fanatical communists were ruining things, and things were getting worse, right? They saw that you had to kill more and more of your own people to keep the, to keep shit locked down, right? So the argument could be within the Iranian Revolutionary Guard or the regime more broadly, there are people who are... Like, you know, I'm, I'm not necessarily that keen on, on the guy who runs Iran now, Jelani, right? He is a jihadi, but he's kinda like a moderate one.

Joe Rogan 32:07 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 32:07 You know. You know, how long that... I don't know how long it's gonna last. But my point is, within every regime, there is some range of opinion. There is some range of fanaticism. There is some range of people who, partly for generational reasons, you know. The younger people have seen, uh, you know, a 40-year history, and they now go, "Okay, this isn't working anymore. We need to try something else." That is possible. So if, if the, the CIA and the White House have someone like that, um, and they can do a regime adjustment, and like, I think the idea that you're gonna have, you know, multi-parliamentary democracy with, you know, free and fair elections and women w- you know, like Venice Beach, you know, rollerblading on bikinis on. I don't know that that's gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 32:53 You don't.

Konstantin Kisin 32:53 Right? But what you might have is an authoritarian regime of some kind, like many other countries in the Middle East, which realizes that actually economic growth is more important than shouting Allahu Akbar every three minutes and blowing shit up, right?

Joe Rogan 33:09 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 33:09 That focuses on making life better for their citizens. That, you know, practices traditional Muslim values, which many countries do, and says, you know, women ought to be modest, but doesn't force them to wear the burka or, or, or, or the, the headscarf or whatever. Or... And, uh, is less interested in destabilizing the region and attacking others and trying to be this great power, and is more interested in just prosperity for its own people, survival for them- for themselves as a regime, and is willing to play ball with the United States. Um, I mean, that-

Joe Rogan 33:43 Well said. Yeah, well said.

Konstantin Kisin 33:44 That-

Joe Rogan 33:44 That's best case scenario.

Konstantin Kisin 33:44 That's best case scenario.

Joe Rogan 33:45 Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 33:45 Now, if you get there, y- I think that would be a huge win for President Trump, and it'd be a huge win for the world, and he will walk away from that with a huge win, and I think, you know, you're a better expert on the American people, but I think American people like winning, right? So y- y- if you have all this happen, he can then say, "Well, look, we did this, we did this, we did this. Russia and China have been pushed back. We got a, you know, the situa- Iran is not gonna get a nuke," which is important. I think we can all agree on that, right?

Joe Rogan 34:13 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 34:13 Um, there is the possibility that he comes out of this very well. I, I think that based on what I see, but I don't know, coming back to what we said, I think we share this kind of perspective really, Francis and I. That seems somewhat less likely. This point is harder to see. But I think you can tell a persuasive story both ways. I really do.

Joe Rogan 34:34 That makes sense, and what, what you're saying I think is very valid, that we need to abandon any idea of them having some sort of a democracy over there. It's, it's not gonna happen.

Konstantin Kisin 34:42 No.

Joe Rogan 34:43 Um, and you know, you do look at the relationships that we have with other Gulf state-

Konstantin Kisin 34:50 Mm.

Joe Rogan 34:50 -nations.

Konstantin Kisin 34:51 Mm.

Joe Rogan 34:52 Seems fine, right? It's not threatening to us. We would like everyone to be free and have the same sort of liberal democracy that we have in America, but okay, you can like that all, want that all day long.

Konstantin Kisin 35:04 Mm.

Joe Rogan 35:05 You can't do anything to change the way other people govern themselves, especially when you've gotten to the point where... Like, s- take any of the Middle Eastern countries, for example. These, some of these people are worth trillions of dollars.

Konstantin Kisin 35:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:18 These royal families have been running it forever. They have insane amounts of oil money. Good luck.

Konstantin Kisin 35:24 Mm.

Joe Rogan 35:25 Good luck getting them out of there.

Konstantin Kisin 35:26 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 35:26 Like, good, good luck saying, uh, "We should just vote, you know, and have a president," and you don't have any power anymore. Like, how, how are you gonna pull that off? Especially if things are going well for the people that live there. Like, like ex- like, I have a friend who moved to Dubai.

Konstantin Kisin 35:40 Mm. Mm.

Joe Rogan 35:41 And, uh, he's an American, and, uh, he moved back to America recently, but he was over there and he said, "Dude, you, you could leave a Rolex on the street and people would pick it up and bring it to the police."

Konstantin Kisin 35:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:51 Like, i- it's so safe. He's like, "There's no crime." And he's Black, and so he, he's like, "I worry when I go out in America I'm gonna get shot."

Konstantin Kisin 35:59 Mm.

Joe Rogan 35:59 "I'm worried I'm gonna go to a club- "

Konstantin Kisin 36:01 Mm.

Joe Rogan 36:01 " ... and someone's gonna start beefing and shooting up the place, and I'm gonna get hit."

Konstantin Kisin 36:04 Mm.

Joe Rogan 36:04 He goes, "I don't think about that at all over here."

Konstantin Kisin 36:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:06 "There's none of that."

Konstantin Kisin 36:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:08 He goes, "It's safer." Is, is it fucked up that, you know, it's run by a king? I, I guess. W- is there... I- is it that much different than a president? I mean, in, in a way? Like, it's a leader, right? You've got more checks and balances over here. You've got Congress, you got the Sen- you got all this shit going on-

Konstantin Kisin 36:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:27 With the Supreme C- you have all these different human beings that also have a say, and can block things, and... But at the end of the day, w- we're still under this bizarre alpha male chimpanzee structure-

Konstantin Kisin 36:40 Mm.

Joe Rogan 36:40 That have, has existed from the time that we were 150 people in a fucking tribe.

Konstantin Kisin 36:44 Mm.

Joe Rogan 36:45 Right? W- so it's still one guy running things. It's just running things their way.

Konstantin Kisin 36:50 Mm.

Joe Rogan 36:51 And if you were a citizen in DubaiPretty fucking good, right?

Konstantin Kisin 36:56 Right. Well, your point about the UAE is really interesting because not only is on the practical level of safety and other things, but also, uh, they don't have the Islamism problem-

Joe Rogan 37:05 Right

Konstantin Kisin 37:06 ... that we have in Britain, and increasingly you guys are starting to see here.

Guest 37:09 Mm.

Konstantin Kisin 37:10 Because they recognize that it's a problem, and they deal with it. So I don't know if you saw this news story, the UAE no longer gives sponsorships to their students-

Joe Rogan 37:19 Yes

Konstantin Kisin 37:19 ... to go to the UK-

Guest 37:21 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 37:21 ... because they're worried their kids are gonna get radicalized by Islamists in Britain.

Joe Rogan 37:26 Which is fucking wild.

Konstantin Kisin 37:28 Yeah.

Guest 37:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:29 That is fucking wild.

Konstantin Kisin 37:30 Yeah. And you, I mean, uh, you, you, you were messaging me about this story with the, the Mamdani situation, right, yesterday.

Joe Rogan 37:36 Yes.

Konstantin Kisin 37:36 You now have this problem in America.

Guest 37:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:38 Yes.

Konstantin Kisin 37:39 You have the Islamism problem here, where people who are supporters of ISIS are throwing bom- and I mean, your media's pretending it's not happening, but it's fucking happening.

Joe Rogan 37:47 Well, it happened in Austin.

Konstantin Kisin 37:48 Right.

Guest 37:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:48 I mean-

Konstantin Kisin 37:49 Right

Joe Rogan 37:49 ... the, the guy who shot up that bar.

Konstantin Kisin 37:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:51 Um.

Guest 37:51 Because this is a problem, Joe-

Joe Rogan 37:52 I'm gonna send that article to Jamie.

Konstantin Kisin 37:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:54 Jamie, uh, we- you could probably find it on CNN, 'cause it's kind of hilarious.

Konstantin Kisin 37:58 It's incredible. This was actually incredible.

Guest 38:00 The New York Times title change thing?

Joe Rogan 38:02 And did the New York Times change their title?

Guest 38:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:05 They did? Well, they- [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 38:06 [laughs]

Guest 38:07 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 38:07 I wonder why. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 38:08 All, all Astia scholars.

Joe Rogan 38:10 I'm gonna send you the CNN one first. Um, the CNN one is, is really wild. I'm gonna-

Guest 38:15 What was it called? Like, they had, like, s- fuses of things with smoke or something, and they had to change it to bombs or something.

Joe Rogan 38:21 Yeah, fucking duh.

Guest 38:23 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 38:23 Uh, I'm sending you this one, 'cause the CNN one is, believe it or not, more preposterous. The CNN one is so kooky, you, you, you see their headline, and you're like, "What, what kind of story are you painting here?" Like, this is such a crazy way to frame a guy showed up with bombs and was hurling them at people. You know-

Konstantin Kisin 38:46 No, they made it sound like the exact opposite of what actually happened.

Joe Rogan 38:48 Well, it sounded like it was just a regular day.

Guest 38:50 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 38:50 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 38:51 Just a regular, just a regular day for this fella, and then things just went a little sideways-

Guest 38:55 Yeah

Joe Rogan 38:56 ... somewhere along the line.

Guest 38:56 Listen, we've all got hobbies, man. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 38:58 To the left.

Guest 38:59 You like working out, and he has nail bombs.

Konstantin Kisin 39:00 Yeah.

Guest 39:00 Come on.

Konstantin Kisin 39:01 Yeah. But-

Joe Rogan 39:02 Did you get it, Jamie?

Guest 39:02 It's not-

Joe Rogan 39:03 It's not coming through?

Guest 39:04 No, look, when I, uh... It's not loading there.

Joe Rogan 39:07 Oh, interesting.

Guest 39:08 It's not loading there. It-

Joe Rogan 39:08 But let me, um, see if they took it down.

Guest 39:12 I'd, I'd guess they would have. You probably have an old link that-

Joe Rogan 39:15 Okay, that's the New York Times one I sent you on F- oh, well, that, no, that's the one I just clicked on. Let me check the, uh, original one. Nothing to see here. Interesting.

Konstantin Kisin 39:23 [laughs]

Guest 39:24 They probably deleted it.

Joe Rogan 39:24 Uh, they probably deleted it. Okay, here, I found it. I found it. "Two Pennsylvania teenagers crossed into New York City Saturday morning for what could've been a normal day enjoying the city during abnormally warm weather. But in less than an hour, their lives would drastically change, as the pair would be arrested for throwing homemade bombs."

Guest 39:41 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 39:42 Should... That's, that's, that is CNN's tweet. Um, I'm gonna send you a screenshot 'cause I do believe they've taken it down.

Konstantin Kisin 39:49 That is brilliant.

Joe Rogan 39:50 Um, yep. Nothing to see here yet. Yeah, they took it down.

Guest 39:53 Yeah. That's not a headline, though. That's like a section headline.

Konstantin Kisin 39:55 I think-

Joe Rogan 39:55 No, no, no, I'm, I j-

Guest 39:56 Oh, okay

Joe Rogan 39:56 ... I'm gonna send you the, uh, actual tweet because they did take it down because it's so fucking ridiculous, but, uh, the internet never forgets. Um, I'm sending it to you. I, thank God I saved it and took a screenshot. 'Cause I'm like, this is such a crazy way to frame-

Konstantin Kisin 40:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 40:14 ... two guys wanting to do a terror attack.

Guest 40:18 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 40:19 But it's not an accident, Joe. It's not crazy.

Joe Rogan 40:21 No.

Konstantin Kisin 40:21 You, you know it's not crazy.

Joe Rogan 40:22 Oh, yeah. Look, look how it's framed here.

Konstantin Kisin 40:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:24 This is the original tweet. "Two Pennsylvania teenagers," just regular fellas-

Konstantin Kisin 40:27 Yeah

Joe Rogan 40:28 ... from, from PA.

Konstantin Kisin 40:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:29 From Philly.

Konstantin Kisin 40:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:30 Two Philly boys. Had a couple of cheese steaks and then got on the train.

Konstantin Kisin 40:34 [laughs]

Guest 40:35 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 40:35 "Crossing New York City Saturday morning for what could've been a normal day, enjoying the city during abnormally warm weather."

Konstantin Kisin 40:40 Mm.

Joe Rogan 40:40 Why the fuck would you even say that? Could've been a normal day if they weren't going there to commit terrorism.

Guest 40:45 Do you know what it reads like? It reads like when I used to teach, uh, 13-year-olds creative writing.

Joe Rogan 40:49 [laughs]

Guest 40:50 That's how they'd all start off, you know? It was like, "A normal day in..."

Joe Rogan 40:54 I mean, is the... I'd like to know who wr- who wrote that. Who's the person who wrote that?

Konstantin Kisin 40:58 Mm.

Joe Rogan 40:59 And I wanna know if, uh, were you, were you directed to write it that way? Like-

Konstantin Kisin 41:01 Or who approved it.

Joe Rogan 41:02 Yeah.

Guest 41:02 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 41:03 Who edited it?

Joe Rogan 41:03 Are, are you trying to downplay the possibility of, first of all, now in New York, because you have a, a guy who's an avowed whatever he is, Democratic socialist, some say communist, but also Muslim.

Konstantin Kisin 41:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 41:17 And then you have these Islamists who-

Konstantin Kisin 41:20 Mm

Joe Rogan 41:21 ... are doing a terrorist attack. So, like, are you trying to soften that?

Konstantin Kisin 41:24 Yeah, so they are.

Joe Rogan 41:24 Seems like you're trying to soften it.

Konstantin Kisin 41:25 So what, what happened, just so people know, is there was a protest outside Mamdani's mansion.

Joe Rogan 41:30 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 41:30 Right? And then these two people turned up and threw bombs at the protesters.

Joe Rogan 41:35 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 41:35 And the way it was reported, you, if you just read that and no other stuff, you would've come away from the, with the conclusion that it was the protesters who were the targets of the bombs, they were the ones that threw the bombs. No one officially said that that's what happened, but the way they did the story and the headline, you would've got that impression. And you're just going, well, you are just on a team. You see this as a team game.

Joe Rogan 42:00 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 42:01 Right?

Joe Rogan 42:01 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 42:01 And you want to present your team in the correct light.

Guest 42:04 Mm.

Joe Rogan 42:04 Oh, the new, new post. "A post regarding two individuals arrested for throwing handmade bombs outside of New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani's home failed to reflect the gravity of the incident, thereby breaching the editorial standards-

Guest 42:18 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 42:18 ... we require for all our reporting. It has therefore been deleted."

Konstantin Kisin 42:22 But see how skillful this is, Joe. This is gaslighting again.

Joe Rogan 42:25 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 42:25 They're saying their mistake was to, of what-

Joe Rogan 42:28 [laughs] Look at the first p-

Guest 42:30 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 42:30 Look at this guy, donut operator. Nah, you retards got called out-

Guest 42:33 Called out

Joe Rogan 42:33 ... for trying to downplay actual terrorism, and now you're backpedaling. Yep.

Konstantin Kisin 42:37 Who's our second guy? He's really smart.

Guest 42:38 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 42:39 Uh, didn't fail to reflect the gravity of the situation. This guy named Konstantin, I think he's on that Triggernometry show.

Guest 42:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:45 Uh, reflect the gravity of the situation. It failed to accurately communicate who was responsible, who the intended victims were, and where the b- the b-... the blame for the attempted terrorist attack lay. In other words, you didn't accidentally downplay the seriousness of, seriousness of it, you deliberately misrepresented what happened to conceal the truth from the public. Well, that's how AI would say it.

Konstantin Kisin 43:06 [laughs]

Francis Foster 43:06 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 43:07 I still write my own shit, Joe. I'm old school.

Joe Rogan 43:09 I know you do, but I like the donut operator guy.

Konstantin Kisin 43:12 Yeah.

Francis Foster 43:13 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 43:13 Yeah, I know. He's more your cup of tea.

Joe Rogan 43:15 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 43:16 But that is what-

Joe Rogan 43:16 That's how I like to talk.

Konstantin Kisin 43:17 That is what happened though, right?

Joe Rogan 43:18 That is what happened, but that's what's really scary about this world we're living in now, right now.

Konstantin Kisin 43:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:24 Because we're, we're so ideologically captured, both right and left. Everyone in this country looks at this administration as an existential threat to democracy itself and our way of life and, you know, fill in the blank, whatever marginalized groups are all gonna be round up and put in internment camps. This is, th- this is the narrative that the, the most radical of the left have about the, you know, the sky is falling because Trump's in office.

Francis Foster 43:48 But it's also as well, what people on the left don't want to acknowledge is the dangers of Islamism.

Joe Rogan 43:53 Right.

Francis Foster 43:53 When they see people do these kind of horrific terror attacks, when they see, for instance, what happened in the London Bridge terror attacks in 2019, or what happened in Manchester in the Ariana Grande concert, where Islamic terrorists bombed a Ariana Grande concert, and the majority of the audience were little girls, were young girls. And they say, "Oh, th- this happened because, you know, they were marginalized, and they felt angry, and this is what people do when you push them to one side, and they don't have a means in order to, how to express themselves." You're going, "No, what this is is an ideology." It's an ideology which believes that our civilization, our way of life is evil, but also they want to establish their form of radical Islam across the globe. They want to create a global Islamic caliphate, and they will do whatever it takes in order to achieve that goal. But people in the West, they can't understand that because it's so alien for how we see-

Joe Rogan 44:52 Mm

Francis Foster 44:52 ... how we see things. We believe human life is precious. We believe the most important thing is human life. They don't. They believe the cause is more important than your life. And we can't understand that because we're raised in a world that is fundamentally Christian, even though we might not be. We still have Christian values. We had a guest on the show, a wonderful historian called Tom Holland, and he explained this to us, that even if you're not Christian, even if you think you were raised by atheist parents, you were still raised with Christian values. That's the soup in which we live. That's w- the water in which we swim. So this way of life that these people have, this ideology, is so alien to us that we can't understand it. But also, we don't want to understand it because if you start to actually investigate what these people believe, what their ideology is, you realize that we are not all the same, and these people believe something very, very different. And then we're going to have a very uncomfortable conversation of how do you tackle this? 'Cause can you have Western liberal democratic values and Islamism and people who are Islamists in the same society? And the answer is you can't.

Joe Rogan 46:02 And I think it's really important, your point, the difference between Islamists and Muslims.

Francis Foster 46:06 Yes.

Joe Rogan 46:07 The Muslims are these Gulf State people.

Francis Foster 46:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:09 Muslims are these people in Dubai and Saudi Arabia. Islamists are the ones that want the caliphate.

Francis Foster 46:14 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 46:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:14 But then you have the crazy Christians, and that thing that I sent you, the Yahoo thing that we talked about yesterday with Schoenberger, the Yahoo thing is nuts. So these military leaders... So, so this, this comes from one of the non-commissioned officers who went to a briefing. He goes to a briefing, and they inform him that you shouldn't be scared because this is all because President Trump is anointed by Jesus, and this is to bring about Armageddon so that Jesus returns to Earth. This is in a fucking military briefing. One such note included an a- anecdote from a non-commissioned officer who reported that their commander had urged us to tell our troops this war was all a part of God's divine plan, and he specifically referenced numerous citations out of the Book of Revelations referring to Armageddon and the eminent return of Jesus Christ. This is fucking crazy. Um, he said, "This morning our command..." So this is, this is a, an officer who's talking about this. "This morning our commander opened up the combat readiness status briefing by urging us to not be afraid as to what was happening with our combat operations in Iran." He said, "President Trump has been anointed by Jesus to light the signal fire in Iran to cause Armageddon and mark his return to Earth." He said he had a big grin on his face when he said all this, which made his message seem even more crazy.

Konstantin Kisin 47:34 Well, that's reassuring. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 47:35 That's, that... Well, this is, this is the scary arm of the, the right.

Konstantin Kisin 47:40 That right.

Joe Rogan 47:40 This is the scariest arm of the right.

Konstantin Kisin 47:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:41 The, the-

Konstantin Kisin 47:42 Yeah

Joe Rogan 47:42 ... people that think that this is one of the main reasons, the Mike Huckabee people-

Konstantin Kisin 47:45 Mm

Joe Rogan 47:46 ... that think this is the main reason to protect Israel. It's a part of God's plan. You know, Israel is where Jesus is gonna return.

Konstantin Kisin 47:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:52 He's gonna return to Jerusalem. Yikes.

Konstantin Kisin 47:56 Yeah, I've never really understood that. Like, I think you can argue for... You can be pro-Israel for pragmatic reasons. This religious stuff is a little bit s- weird to me. I don't get-

Joe Rogan 48:06 Well, this... But the problem is you've got fanatics-

Konstantin Kisin 48:09 Right

Joe Rogan 48:10 ... like the Islamists.

Konstantin Kisin 48:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:11 But you've also got these Christian hard right Christian nationalists-

Konstantin Kisin 48:16 Mm

Joe Rogan 48:16 ... that really believe that this is a part of biblical prophecy.

Konstantin Kisin 48:21 Mm.

Joe Rogan 48:22 And that they, this is Book of Revelations. It's about to go down.

Konstantin Kisin 48:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:25 And they, they want it to go down. This is fucking terrifying.

Konstantin Kisin 48:29 Mm.

Francis Foster 48:30 This is really interesting for us because in our, in, in the UK, Christianity has been de-fanged to the point where there's a trans flag on practically every church. So this idea of having these hardcore right-wing fundamentalist Christians, we, we just don't experience that.

Konstantin Kisin 48:47 No, we don't have that really.

Joe Rogan 48:48 Yeah. It's like, can't anyb- everybody live in the middle? Why, why do you have to go all the way over to-

Konstantin Kisin 48:53 Mm

Joe Rogan 48:53 ... we gotta start Armageddon-

Konstantin Kisin 48:55 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 48:56 ... and Jesus, Jesus is gonna come back on a white horse? You ever read the Book of Revelations?

Konstantin Kisin 48:59 Mm.

Joe Rogan 48:59 Yeah, I got really into it. The Book of Revelations is kooky. You know, they, they really believe that Jesus is gonna return on a horse.

Francis Foster 49:06 Why a horse?

Joe Rogan 49:07 A white horse

Francis Foster 49:08 That's a bit racist.

Joe Rogan 49:09 A little bit.

Konstantin Kisin 49:10 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 49:11 I mean, I don't get [laughs] I don't-

Konstantin Kisin 49:14 Can we have a diverse horse at least-

Francis Foster 49:15 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 49:15 ... for the Arm- for Armageddon?

Francis Foster 49:16 Why not a horse of color, Joe?

Joe Rogan 49:17 You want me to read you the passage? 'Cause I, I saved it, 'cause it's kinda kooky. Um, because it's one of those things where you just go, "Wait, well, well, who fucking believes this? Is this, is this really what you think is gonna go down because someone wrote it down on paper 2,000 years ago in, in ancient Hebrew?" Uh, it says, "Heaven opens and Christ appears on a white horse to judge and wage war, called Faithful and True with eyes like fire, many crowns, and the name King of King and Lord of Lords." Just imagine it's 2026 and you're like, "That's the blueprint, boys."

Konstantin Kisin 49:51 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 49:53 But this is just as scary.

Konstantin Kisin 49:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:54 And especially for people that are Muslims, right?

Konstantin Kisin 49:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:56 Or, or anybody who lives in the Middle East. Like, they... This is more important than human life.

Konstantin Kisin 50:01 Mm.

Joe Rogan 50:01 This is more important than international law. This is, like, in the eyes of the crazy on the right-

Konstantin Kisin 50:08 Mm

Joe Rogan 50:09 ... this is the problem. So it's like, it's not, it's not like one side-

Konstantin Kisin 50:12 Mm

Joe Rogan 50:12 ... it's like all good over here.

Konstantin Kisin 50:14 Mm.

Joe Rogan 50:14 We have to fight against the Islamists. No, we've, we've got some kooks over here, too. If, if that guy's for real, and that guy's-

Konstantin Kisin 50:21 Mm

Joe Rogan 50:21 ... in a position of power-

Konstantin Kisin 50:22 Mm

Joe Rogan 50:22 ... and he's really having combat readiness meetings where he's telling people that we have to bomb and start Armageddon so Jesus can come back on a white horse, fucking yo.

Konstantin Kisin 50:31 Mm.

Joe Rogan 50:31 Like, that's kooky.

Konstantin Kisin 50:33 The thing that I- is probably reassuring somewhat is l- I don't... President Trump doesn't strike me as one of those people.

Joe Rogan 50:39 He's not.

Konstantin Kisin 50:39 He's not, right? Whereas the leader of Iran is.

Joe Rogan 50:43 Right. But people in the military, I think, are as well.

Konstantin Kisin 50:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:46 And people in high positions in the military-

Konstantin Kisin 50:48 Mm

Joe Rogan 50:48 ... I think maybe as well.

Konstantin Kisin 50:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:49 If w- if this guy can give that kind of a meeting-

Konstantin Kisin 50:52 Mm

Joe Rogan 50:52 ... and, and that kind of a speech at a meeting-

Konstantin Kisin 50:54 Yeah

Joe Rogan 50:54 ... that, that's a little terrifying.

Konstantin Kisin 50:56 Mm.

Joe Rogan 50:56 And if I was over there, I'd be freaking the fuck out.

Konstantin Kisin 50:59 Mm.

Joe Rogan 50:59 If I'd be like, "This is your plan? I'm cannon fodder so that Jesus can come back?" W- well, my body's gonna be a part of the, the fucking signal fire?

Konstantin Kisin 51:08 [laughs]

Francis Foster 51:08 Let's be honest, though. It wouldn't be that much of a plot twist for 2026, would it?

Joe Rogan 51:12 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 51:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:13 It would be the final gr- you know-

Konstantin Kisin 51:14 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 51:14 ... episode 10, Game of Thrones, Season 6.

Francis Foster 51:17 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:19 Yes. I mean, it is getting fucking we- and that's when the aliens come. Maybe that's what they're doing. You know, the, the whole thing is, uh, it's... There's not a sane person on either side.

Konstantin Kisin 51:31 Mm.

Joe Rogan 51:32 The whole thing is nuts. And it's like y- it doesn't, it, it, it doesn't make sense to anybody, and that's what scares the shit out of me.

Konstantin Kisin 51:40 Mm.

Francis Foster 51:40 Yeah. It's... The thing that scares me is what Konstantin has, has addressed, is I don't get worried unless I can't see a way out or the way that this is resolved.

Joe Rogan 51:52 Right.

Francis Foster 51:52 And like you said, the coin is in the air. And I'm slightly of more, more pessimistic nature. He's more of an optimist. But as I p- I, I look at it and I think to myself, this could go so wrong.

Joe Rogan 52:04 Yeah.

Francis Foster 52:05 So badly wrong that it can ma- it could make Iraq look like an absolute picnic in comparison.

Joe Rogan 52:10 Yeah. Well, especially if terrorist attacks start popping off over in America.

Konstantin Kisin 52:14 Mm.

Joe Rogan 52:14 Like, major ones.

Konstantin Kisin 52:15 Mm.

Joe Rogan 52:15 You know? And that, that could be bad for everything. That could be bad for freedom of speech. That could be bad for rights.

Konstantin Kisin 52:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:23 That could be bad for, you know, in- incorporation of, uh, digital ID. That'd be a good way to push that through. There's a lot of stuff that would go through that would radically change, just like the Patriot Act did.

Konstantin Kisin 52:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 52:33 Patriot Act radically changed the freedoms-

Konstantin Kisin 52:36 Mm

Joe Rogan 52:36 ... that we have in America and the overreach that the government is allowed-

Konstantin Kisin 52:39 Yeah

Joe Rogan 52:39 ... to, to do.

Konstantin Kisin 52:40 You're so right. But we, we only just started being allowed to take water back on the fucking planes, right? [laughs]

Francis Foster 52:44 Right. Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 52:45 Right. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 52:45 Just... Maybe this is what it's all about.

Francis Foster 52:48 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 52:48 It's so you can't take water on a plane anymore.

Joe Rogan 52:49 Didn't they decide to s- to let people keep their sneakers on? Wasn't that going on for a while?

Francis Foster 52:53 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 52:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 52:54 You can't, can't have that.

Joe Rogan 52:55 We had one fucking shoe bomber.

Konstantin Kisin 52:56 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 52:57 That Richard asshole, that one guy.

Konstantin Kisin 52:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:59 One guy.

Konstantin Kisin 53:00 Yeah.

Francis Foster 53:00 Yeah. D- and there was once... Do you remember you weren't allowed to bring scissors on?

Joe Rogan 53:03 Oh, yeah.

Francis Foster 53:03 Like the small scissors?

Joe Rogan 53:04 Right.

Francis Foster 53:04 I can't remember the comedian who said this, but he went, "You know what? If you take over an entire plane armed with nothing but water and some small scissors, you deserve the plane."

Joe Rogan 53:14 Well, here's the thing. Like, you can bring skateboards, but you can't bring a pool cue. So it doesn't make any sense.

Konstantin Kisin 53:19 Mm.

Joe Rogan 53:20 Like, there's the... Like, I, I fuck you up with a skateboard.

Konstantin Kisin 53:23 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 53:23 Give me a ska- I'll fuck a lot of people up with a skateboard, you know? Like, think about what kind of damage you could do with that big heavy ass thing.

Konstantin Kisin 53:30 Mm.

Joe Rogan 53:31 You know?

Francis Foster 53:32 Yeah. It's just... The, and the, the worry is when it comes to all of this, is you look at these guys and you go, do you have a vision for what is actually gonna happen?

Joe Rogan 53:40 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 53:40 But I do think they do, though. I do think they have a vision. What I wanna find out is what that vision is.

Joe Rogan 53:47 I hope you're right, but I don't think you are.

Konstantin Kisin 53:50 You don't think I am?

Joe Rogan 53:51 Uh, n- I, I think it's very possible that they thought this would be over much quicker. They thought taking out the Ir- look, look, just look at the success that they had in the initial bombing of Iran, right? The initial bombing, they supposedly decapitated their ability to make nuclear bombs-

Konstantin Kisin 54:06 Mm

Joe Rogan 54:06 ... or at least stopped it for a long time.

Konstantin Kisin 54:08 Mm.

Joe Rogan 54:08 And there was a lot of concessions that the Iranians were willing to submit to that they never submitted to under Obama or anybody else.

Konstantin Kisin 54:15 Mm.

Joe Rogan 54:15 And that wasn't enough.

Konstantin Kisin 54:16 Mm.

Joe Rogan 54:17 Right? So it, the, the problem is when you're... Like, we're talking about Desert Storm. You get away with something that works really well, you're like, "We know what we're doing."

Konstantin Kisin 54:25 Mm.

Joe Rogan 54:26 And then you bite off more than you can chew.

Konstantin Kisin 54:28 Yeah. And especially once you've done Venezuela, you feel like you're kind of-

Joe Rogan 54:31 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 54:31 ... you're on a roll.

Joe Rogan 54:32 Right.

Francis Foster 54:32 But they did this.

Konstantin Kisin 54:33 Yeah. I, I see your point. I see your point. Um, I do think, though, I mean, from what I read, uh, both Kushner and Witkoff both said that the Iranians were not playing ball, actually. Um-

Joe Rogan 54:44 Okay

Konstantin Kisin 54:44 ... which is why they went in. So obviously, if you think about it, given how long it takes for US assets to get to the region, this decision would've been made weeks ago at the very least.

Joe Rogan 54:54 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 54:54 Right? And that's because, from what I understand-The negotiators are like, "Iran isn't actually playing ball. What they're doing is they're claiming publicly that they're willing to make concessions. But when we sit down with them, that's not what's happening, 'cause all they're doing is stalling for time."

Joe Rogan 55:08 That makes more sense.

Konstantin Kisin 55:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:09 And so if you were worried that someone was in the middle of actually getting their uranium up to a point where you enrich it-

Konstantin Kisin 55:15 Mm

Joe Rogan 55:15 ... to nuclear bomb levels.

Konstantin Kisin 55:17 Right.

Speaker 55:18 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 55:18 But I think but a lot of people misunderstand that in the sense that, like, um, I think it pr- based on my understanding, it's totally false to claim that they were, like, about to develop a nuclear... They were not.

Joe Rogan 55:28 Well, you've seen the compilation of Netanyahu saying, uh, Iran is two weeks away from-

Konstantin Kisin 55:34 Right

Joe Rogan 55:34 ... developing a nuclear bomb-

Speaker 55:35 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 55:35 Right, right, right

Joe Rogan 55:35 ... all the way back to the '80s.

Konstantin Kisin 55:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:36 Have you seen that compilation?

Konstantin Kisin 55:37 I haven't, no.

Joe Rogan 55:38 It's wonderful.

Konstantin Kisin 55:39 Right. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 55:39 See if you can find it, Jamie. 'Cause it's so, it's so kooky. I mean, he's been talking about this for-

Konstantin Kisin 55:44 Mm

Joe Rogan 55:44 ... fucking ever.

Speaker 55:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:45 That they're that close.

Konstantin Kisin 55:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:46 They're two weeks away. They're two weeks away. They're two weeks away. And, you know, maybe they are, you know? And-

Konstantin Kisin 55:51 Yeah

Joe Rogan 55:52 ... maybe Stuxnet put a dent in that, right? They, they used that, um, virus program to-

Konstantin Kisin 55:57 Mm, mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 55:58 ... kill all the computer programs that were running their nuclear program over there.

Konstantin Kisin 56:03 Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I don't know that they were ever, like, two weeks from having a, a payload that was ready to be delivered to-

Joe Rogan 56:10 Right

Konstantin Kisin 56:10 ... wherever, but they are, they were enriching uranium to, to levels that you only enrich if you want nuclear weapons, right?

Joe Rogan 56:16 Right, right.

Konstantin Kisin 56:17 Uh, and so I guess the question for Trump is, like, do I allow this to continue, and do I have to wait until they've got the fucking bomb on a launcher waiting to, to go, right?

Joe Rogan 56:26 Here it is.

Konstantin Kisin 56:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:27 Let's hear it.

Speaker 56:27 You've probably heard this line before.

Speaker 56:30 Iran has never given up its quest for nuclear weapons and the missiles to deliver them.

Speaker 56:35 That's because Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been saying this for more than 30 years, claiming Iran is close to having...

Speaker 56:44 Nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons. Atomic bombs.

Speaker 56:49 In 1992, as a member of parliament, Netanyahu addresses the Knesset. He says, "Within three to five years, we can assume that Iran will become autonomous in its ability to develop and produce a nuclear bomb." Three years later, in his book Fighting Terrorism, he repeats the same timeframe, three to five years.

Speaker 57:12 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Speaker 57:13 Fast-forward to 2002. Netanyahu testifies before a US congressional committee, actively calling for the invasion of Iraq.

Speaker 57:22 Uh, are there any other nations that you would recommend that the United States launch preemptive attacks upon at this point?

Speaker 57:29 The two nations that are vying, competing with each other, who will be the first to achieve nuclear weapons, uh, is Iraq and Iran.

Speaker 57:37 The invasion happens months later. N-

Konstantin Kisin 57:40 Keep going on this

Speaker 57:41 ... are found in Iraq. This is a fragment of a 2009 US State Department cable released by WikiLeaks. Netanyahu tells members of Congress that Iran is one or two years away from being capable of developing nuclear weapons.

Speaker 57:59 They're online.

Speaker 58:00 It's 2012, and Netanyahu is holding up his infamous cartoon bomb at the UN General Assembly.

Joe Rogan 58:07 [laughs]

Speaker 58:07 By next spring, at most by next summer, at current enrichment rates, they will have finished the medium enrichment and move on to the final stage. From there, it's only a few months, possibly a few weeks, before they get enough enriched uranium for the first bomb.

Speaker 58:31 And now, 33 years after Netanyahu's first so-called imminent warning, Israel attacks Iran.

Speaker 58:38 If not stopped, Iran could produce a nuclear weapon in a very short time. It could be a year. It could be within a few months, less than a year.

Speaker 58:48 That's despite the US Director of National Intelligence saying Iran isn't building a nuclear weapon months earlier.

Speaker 58:55 Iran lied.

Speaker 58:57 But for Netanyahu-

Speaker 58:59 Big time

Speaker 58:59 ... the slogan has been the same for decades.

Joe Rogan 59:02 Like how he said big time.

Speaker 59:03 Mitch Amen-Denko, Al Jazeera.

Joe Rogan 59:06 We get it.

Konstantin Kisin 59:07 [laughs]

Speaker 59:07 [clears throat]

Joe Rogan 59:08 Yeah, so but here's the thing. Maybe he's kind of right, but they haven't ever done it.

Konstantin Kisin 59:13 Right.

Speaker 59:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:14 You know?

Konstantin Kisin 59:14 Well, the, there's a difference.

Joe Rogan 59:15 They certainly are enriching uranium to a point where-

Konstantin Kisin 59:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 59:19 ... it's more than you need for power.

Konstantin Kisin 59:21 Right.

Speaker 59:21 Mm.

Konstantin Kisin 59:21 So why, why are they doing that?

Joe Rogan 59:23 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 59:23 Right. And so I guess for Trump, the calculation is like, "I'm in my last term, I might as well k- you know, roll the dice. Go, go and deal with it now." Could end very badly, as we've discussed.

Speaker 59:34 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 59:35 There is a way that it ends well. We will see what happens. And we... I j- I just don't, honestly don't think anyone knows how it's gonna play out.

Joe Rogan 59:40 I don't think anyone knows.

Speaker 59:41 No.

Joe Rogan 59:41 But you c- how can you?

Konstantin Kisin 59:43 So many moving parts. It's like if I ask you who's, you know... Uh, Dana White just announced the UFC card for the White House, right?

Joe Rogan 59:50 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 59:50 Who's gonna win, Justin Gaethje or Israel Adesanya? You, you are not gonna say, "This is what's gonna happen."

Speaker 59:56 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 59:56 'Cause-

Joe Rogan 59:57 You don't know

Konstantin Kisin 59:57 ... 'cause nobody knows.

Joe Rogan 59:58 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 59:58 Right? And this is, like, 100 times more complicated than that.

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 Right. Yeah. Yeah, at least.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:04 At least. [laughs]

Speaker 1:00:05 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:05 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:06 Probably several thousand-

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:07 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:00:07 ... times more.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:08 So it's a, it's a gamble, and you've gotta... I, I mean, you've gotta think, if this goes badly, this is legacy defining for all involved.

Speaker 1:00:18 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:18 For all involved.

Speaker 1:00:19 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:20 This will, this will... Whatever you've done up to that point, it's like Blair and Bush.

Speaker 1:00:24 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:25 Tony Blair, people forget, in our country, Tony Blair was immensely popular, and then Iraq happened. And the on- if you mention Tony Blair now, the only thing anyone remembers is Iraq.

Speaker 1:00:36 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 So for context, Tony Blair was one of the people... Tony Blair's a hero in Kosovo, 'cause he effectively stopped the... Well, what, the large part of the reason the war in Kosovo ended was Tony Blair. I think th- there was something... I saw a story that kids when, people were naming their kids Tony Blair.

Francis Foster 1:00:53 Right?

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:54 They regret it now.

Francis Foster 1:00:56 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:00:58 [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:00:58 He was one of the central people in the Northern Ireland peace deal, bringing peace to Northern Ireland.

Konstantin Kisin 1:01:03 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:01:03 For people of our age who grew up in the UK-

Konstantin Kisin 1:01:05 That was massive

Francis Foster 1:01:05 ... we, we never thought we'd see peace in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland was a glorified civil war, and it had been for however long, right the way from the '60s, the '70s, the '80s, and he was one of those people instrumental in bringing peace to Northern Ireland. It was a miracle. It was an, it was a total miracle that that happened, the Good Friday Agreement, and it was other people as well, like Mo Mowlam, et cetera. So you look at Blair, he was on a roll. He, y- he must have thought to himself, "Everything I do turns to gold here. I have achieved peace in Kosovo, peace in Northern Ireland. Why can't I invade Iraq and Afghanistan and install democracies and bring peace to the Middle East? I've done it to Northern Ireland. No one ever thought that could happen."

Konstantin Kisin 1:01:49 Mm. So this will... Which- whichever way it goes, I think it will be defining for the people involved. If it goes well, this is, like, the biggest, you know, uh, Hail Mary touchdown in history in, in some ways. If it goes badly, uh, that will define this. I... Certainly from an outside perspective, that's what I see. It's gonna define the, the, the presidency. I mean, uh, I, I don't know how you can argue with that really. Can you?

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 No. No, I don't know how you can argue with it either. But that's what, that's what's so interesting about people that absolutely know how it's gonna play out.

Francis Foster 1:02:23 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 You know? You don't. And then there's also, uh, The New York Times thing I sent to... Did they change that, Jimmy? Or did they take it down?

Speaker 1:02:32 The-

Joe Rogan 1:02:32 I, I just sent it to you

Speaker 1:02:33 ... I just sent it to you.

Joe Rogan 1:02:35 So what does it say? So does New York Times still have it up?

Speaker 1:02:37 Yeah, it's from a day ago, it says.

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 Wow.

Speaker 1:02:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:40 Crowd gathered on Monday. They didn't say which Monday.

Francis Foster 1:02:44 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:02:44 [laughs]

Speaker 1:02:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:47 It was a Monday. It's just, it was just six fucking years ago.

Speaker 1:02:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 Um, yeah, that... And then again, this is, this is the problem, where everything is polarized and politicized.

Konstantin Kisin 1:02:58 Well, I think your point about people wanting to believe something is so true.

Joe Rogan 1:03:02 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 1:03:03 If, if, if... Whenever anything like this happens, you instantly get these camps, right? You've got the anti-war camp, you've got the pro-war camp, you've got the this camp, you've got the anti-Israel camp, you've got the pro-Israel camp, and everyone... Like, information is no longer about information.

Joe Rogan 1:03:17 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:03:17 It's just fodder for your information war that you're fighting.

Joe Rogan 1:03:21 Exactly.

Konstantin Kisin 1:03:22 And then on top of that... And look, this is a kind of... I'm cutting my own balls off here, 'cause I c- I make good money from posting stuff on X, right? But the monetization of content has made things different, and we can all see it in our feed, right?

Joe Rogan 1:03:36 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:03:36 You've seen this.

Joe Rogan 1:03:37 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:03:37 I mean, you must see it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:03:38 So now you have people who are basically... Like, I go on Twitter, on X, to express my opinion and to engage in discussion with people who have a different opinion. That's what I do, right? But there are now lots and lots of people who go to work. They go to X to work.

Joe Rogan 1:03:54 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:03:55 And that's what they're doing. Now, the incentive structure of that is not conducive to a healthy debate-

Joe Rogan 1:04:03 Right

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:03 ... at all.

Speaker 1:04:04 No.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:04 What you've got now is people going, "Okay, a thing has happened. What is my t- Venezuela got invaded. It was Israel's fault. Okay, here's, here's some content about that."

Joe Rogan 1:04:12 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:13 And it's no longer authentic communication, unfortunately.

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 And that's just actual people doing it.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:18 And then you've got AI on top of that.

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:04:20 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:20 And then you've got-

Joe Rogan 1:04:21 Bot farms

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:22 ... foreign bot farms-

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:22 ... and foreign governments trying to influence this shit.

Joe Rogan 1:04:25 There's this-

Francis Foster 1:04:25 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:04:25 ... one currently popular, uh, page that I follow that's clearly AI. You mean, you could just read it and tell-

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:32 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 ... that it's AI.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 And it gets immense amounts of engagement. Heavy, heavily right-wing.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:38 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:38 Like, really well-written.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:40 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:40 You know? T- funny.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:42 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:42 You know? And you could... But not-

Francis Foster 1:04:44 Funny?

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 But yeah, but not human.

Francis Foster 1:04:45 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 Not, not funny real funny-

Francis Foster 1:04:48 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:04:48 ... but funny technically funny.

Francis Foster 1:04:50 Oh.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:50 You know what I'm saying? Like, tech- insults that are technically funny.

Konstantin Kisin 1:04:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:54 But for whatever reason, you don't digest it. It's like Olestra. Remember that stuff?

Francis Foster 1:04:59 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:04:59 It w- you'd get fat, but it just went right through you like diarrhea.

Francis Foster 1:05:02 Yeah. Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:05:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:05:02 That's what it's like.

Konstantin Kisin 1:05:03 Mm.

Francis Foster 1:05:03 It's got no soul.

Joe Rogan 1:05:04 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:05:04 There's no soul to it.

Joe Rogan 1:05:05 And that's just one. I mean, how many, how many of them exist, and how many state actors are-

Konstantin Kisin 1:05:11 Right.

Francis Foster 1:05:11 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:05:11 ... running bot farms?

Francis Foster 1:05:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:13 So it's, we don't know what the fuck is going on-

Francis Foster 1:05:15 No

Joe Rogan 1:05:15 ... at any given time.

Francis Foster 1:05:16 No.

Konstantin Kisin 1:05:17 But it's the incentives that have become perverted.

Joe Rogan 1:05:19 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:05:19 Because it's no longer, like Konstantin said, about expressing opinion-

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 1:05:23 ... or wanting to get involved in dialogue or debate. What you've got now is people, like you said, earning their livings. So if you know if you need to pay your mortgage at the end of the month, or you need to pay a team, or you have a company, you're not gonna put out a nuanced take. Why would you? It's gonna get minimal engagement.

Joe Rogan 1:05:40 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:05:40 You are gonna put out something that is going to trigger, that is going to be incendiary, that is gonna drive engagement, that is gonna get people upset or angry and agree or agree with you, and therefore more likely to share. So that's the content you're gonna put out, 'cause that's the content that's gonna make you the most dough.

Francis Foster 1:05:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 100%.

Francis Foster 1:05:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 And then you have people that are pushing for this idea that no one should be able to post online unless you're using your real name-

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:02 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 ... and you show some sort of an ID.

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:05 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:06 Which is also kind of crazy.

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:07 Yeah. There's downsides to that for sure, but I also, I do understand why they're saying it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:11 I understand it too.

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:12 I just think it's a slippery slope-

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:06:14 ... that stops all whistleblowers.

Francis Foster 1:06:15 Mm.

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:15 It st- And imagine you are a regime critic in Iran-

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 Yes

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:19 ... and you're trying to post news from Iran under-

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 Exactly. Exactly

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:22 ... you know. There's definitely... But y- I, you know, I think Jordan Peterson was actually one of the first people that suggested this thing, and I understand why, because the way... It's like the windscreen, the windshield effect in your car. The way you and I behave face to face is not the way people will s- behave when they're sitting in their truck and someone cut them up in traffic.

Joe Rogan 1:06:42 Right.

Francis Foster 1:06:42 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:43 And social media is the, we cut each other up in traffic and then sit there, go, "Fuck you, buddy," from, like-

Francis Foster 1:06:49 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:49 ... behind our screen.

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:50 That's what it is.

Joe Rogan 1:06:51 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:52 Right? So I understand it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 But times a million.

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:55 Times a million.

Francis Foster 1:06:55 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:06:56 Right? And then you've got foreign bots and all this kind of shit.And then taking away people's right to anonymity online, like fuck me, that, you know, the second, third, fourth order consequences of that-

Joe Rogan 1:07:06 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 1:07:07 ... are pretty fucking crazy as well.

Guest 1:07:08 I found another picture [clears throat] of that area from what it says is yesterday. So I don't know that it was not real.

Joe Rogan 1:07:16 So this is from which website?

Guest 1:07:19 This says, uh... I typed it into Perplexity, and I'm clicking around on pictures to find out where they're coming from one by one.

Joe Rogan 1:07:26 So is it possible that this is, that the New York Times put-

Guest 1:07:30 I-

Joe Rogan 1:07:30 ... the wrong footage, but it was a similar kind of protest-

Guest 1:07:36 Maybe

Joe Rogan 1:07:36 ... in the same spot?

Guest 1:07:37 Maybe.

Konstantin Kisin 1:07:37 Yeah, that's my understanding.

Guest 1:07:38 This is a similar photo.

Joe Rogan 1:07:39 That makes more sense.

Konstantin Kisin 1:07:40 Yeah.

Guest 1:07:40 This is a AP source on this photo.

Joe Rogan 1:07:41 Okay.

Guest 1:07:41 But-

Joe Rogan 1:07:41 So all the New York Times did is get the wrong photo-

Guest 1:07:45 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:07:45 ... of a bunch of people gathering.

Konstantin Kisin 1:07:46 Mm-hmm.

Guest 1:07:46 I'll, I'll note this one, which is at night, so it is definitely a different photo. This is from January.

Konstantin Kisin 1:07:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:07:51 This one is?

Guest 1:07:52 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:07:52 Mm.

Guest 1:07:52 But this is not the same photo that we looked at before.

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 Right. So the other one, though-

Guest 1:07:56 This one is from a day ago.

Joe Rogan 1:07:59 Okay, that's-

Guest 1:07:59 And it looks very similar.

Joe Rogan 1:08:00 Well, that's very different right there. That's small.

Guest 1:08:03 Well, but it's the same angle of-

Joe Rogan 1:08:04 Right

Guest 1:08:05 ... of this little pool th- or whatever it is in the middle-

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 Right

Guest 1:08:07 ... with this picture on it.

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 Right. Right. So what they did was just use the wrong footage, but a similar sort of a protest.

Guest 1:08:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:08:13 So it was just an unfortunate error, not like reframing the narrative with propaganda.

Guest 1:08:18 Yeah. That I'm not sure, 'cause even these comments from Chris Hanus-

Joe Rogan 1:08:19 So I agree that-

Guest 1:08:20 ... is like AI, and it's fake photo, but that's why I was trying to find other sources of it, not from the New York Times.

Joe Rogan 1:08:25 What does Grok have to say?

Guest 1:08:26 That, I mean, I used our Perplexity-

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 Mm-hmm

Guest 1:08:28 ... to do it, and it said-

Joe Rogan 1:08:29 Right. But I mean, on the post usually if someone posts something on-

Guest 1:08:33 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:08:33 ... they say, "Grok, is this true? Is this footage legit?"

Guest 1:08:36 This is from Instagram.

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 Oh, that's it. Okay. It's on Instagram.

Guest 1:08:38 And I could find it on, on Twitter.

Joe Rogan 1:08:39 And so Perplexity says that the, the, there is a legitimate size protest that's like that.

Guest 1:08:44 Yeah, I just asked if crowds gathered there yesterday, and it says yes.

Joe Rogan 1:08:46 It says thou- "Multiple reports indicate that thousands of people gathered in Central Square in Tehran yesterday, show support and pledge allegiance to new supreme leader," how do you say his name?

Konstantin Kisin 1:08:57 Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:08:57 Mojta- uh, how do you say it?

Konstantin Kisin 1:08:59 ... tahba Khamenei.

Joe Rogan 1:09:00 Mojtaba?

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:02 He's the son of the-

Joe Rogan 1:09:03 Right. Right

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:03 ... the guy they killed.

Guest 1:09:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:04 How many people have they killed so far? Like, the, the leaders. There's-

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:08 I, I don't know. But it, it's probably up to the, uh, low hundreds I would imagine.

Joe Rogan 1:09:11 'Cause they had one guy last week that was the new guy, and they whacked him-

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:15 Yeah.

Guest 1:09:15 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:09:15 ... almost immediately.

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:16 I didn't tweet this, but when this guy was appointed I, I wanted to say, like, congratulations to him and condolences to his family. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:09:23 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:23 I was like, this is a bit full on.

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 Yeah. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:26 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:09:27 The problem is you're right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:28 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:30 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:30 Yeah. Yeah. I don't think he's gonna last very long, 'cause he seems pretty hard line as well.

Guest 1:09:34 Yeah. Well, I mean, they killed his dad.

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:37 Yeah.

Guest 1:09:37 You know?

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:37 That doesn't, that doesn't-

Guest 1:09:38 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:38 ... that doesn't tend to deradicalize you very much.

Guest 1:09:40 You know, that's gonna piss you off.

Konstantin Kisin 1:09:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:42 So Jamie put in, "Did The New York Times use an old photo for this event? Evidence so far suggests The New York Times used a recent photo for this week's gathering, not an old archive image, though many commenters have accused the opposite." Interesting. "Instagram's own post of the square crowd, multiple Iranian users claim the image is fake or AI or from 2020, and several assert that it's not representative of real public sentiment. However, another Facebook thread referencing the same image states that it was taken by New York Times photographer Ararash Kamooshi, Kamooshi on Monday, March 9th, 2026, which matches the article date and captions used by other outlets showing the same scene." See, this is the, the fog of confusion that exists-

Konstantin Kisin 1:10:31 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:10:31 ... on social media.

Konstantin Kisin 1:10:33 Yep.

Guest 1:10:33 And isn't it worrying that we can no longer tell what's real?

Joe Rogan 1:10:37 Oh, yeah.

Guest 1:10:37 We can... We're already at that point.

Konstantin Kisin 1:10:39 Yeah.

Guest 1:10:39 And when you think of where we were last year, where you could really tell pretty much what was AI and what wasn't.

Joe Rogan 1:10:45 Right.

Guest 1:10:45 Now we're in the murky waters of is this, isn't it?

Joe Rogan 1:10:48 Mm.

Guest 1:10:48 It's gonna come to a point pretty soon where it's everything is gonna look ex- like real life.

Joe Rogan 1:10:53 Well, as soon as AI can't detect it, that's when we're fucked.

Guest 1:10:56 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:10:56 Right? And then, so I talked to Marc Andreessen about this, and his recommendation was that everything should, should be on the blockchain. So you, you, you're gonna be able to tell whether or not footage has been altered-

Guest 1:11:06 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:11:06 ... what the, you know, what the chain of custody of this image has been, where, where it started, where, you know.

Guest 1:11:15 I mean, it's terrifying, isn't it? 'Cause-

Joe Rogan 1:11:17 Oh, it is. Yeah

Guest 1:11:18 ... because you're gonna think, i- is that gonna be the end of journalism-

Konstantin Kisin 1:11:21 Mm

Guest 1:11:21 ... really?

Joe Rogan 1:11:22 Right.

Guest 1:11:23 Is that gonna be almost... I think we're talking about this, and this is really, really important, but what's coming with AI is even [laughs] more important, and no... I, e- even the people you talk to in the field have no idea what's going to be the second, third, fourth order consequence.

Joe Rogan 1:11:39 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:11:39 I know. It's, it... I mean, there's so much to be excited about with AI, but I think it blinds a lot of people to the, like, not exciting [laughs] parts of it.

Joe Rogan 1:11:49 Well, well, ultimately, if you just looked at where, what is it ultimately going to lead to? It's going to lead to something that's way smarter than us.

Konstantin Kisin 1:11:57 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:11:57 And why would it listen to us anymore?

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:00 Well, you've seen, I'm sure you've seen the stuff about how it will blackmail the CE-

Joe Rogan 1:12:03 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:03 ... right? So that, by definition, that means it has a survival instinct.

Joe Rogan 1:12:08 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:08 And if it has a survival instinct, by definition, it means there is a priority that it has which is above humans.

Joe Rogan 1:12:15 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:15 By definition. That's what a survival instinct means. It means you care more about yourself than you do about anyone else.

Joe Rogan 1:12:20 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:20 Right? So if AI has a survival instinct, we are not going to be its number one priority.

Joe Rogan 1:12:27 Not only that, it doesn't seem to differentiate between using nuclear weapons or other weapons. And when you've, they've done these war game simulations with AG- AI-

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:37 Uh-huh

Joe Rogan 1:12:37 ... they prefer to use nuclear weapons.

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:39 Well, they're more effective, right? [laughs]

Guest 1:12:41 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:12:41 But this is, but this is the thing, like, they're not scared-

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:43 Right

Joe Rogan 1:12:43 ... of this idea, like, oh my God, you're just gonna dust a city. They're like, "Oh, that's the way to do it."

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:47 It's the numbers on a chart, right?

Guest 1:12:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:48 Well, you wanna get your, your goal accomplished. How does AI accomplish its goal? With whatever the best tool available is. Oh, that's this bomb.

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:55 Right.

Guest 1:12:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:56 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:56 Yeah.

Guest 1:12:56 It's efficient.

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:58 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:12:58 Yeah.

Guest 1:12:58 You know? And then a d- a, a mutual friend of ours, Melissa Chen, was telling me that there's a Chinese, one of the Chinese robotics companies, it's called Skynet.

Konstantin Kisin 1:13:07 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:13:08 Oh, God

Francis Foster 1:13:09 And they had, they released a robot called the T-900, and I'm like, "Who says Chi- the, you know, the CCP don't have a sense of humor?"

Joe Rogan 1:13:16 That's, that's wild.

Konstantin Kisin 1:13:17 Is that actually true?

Francis Foster 1:13:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:19 Well, you've seen the robots that they have now that will work in your home and, like, fold your sheets-

Konstantin Kisin 1:13:24 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:13:24 ... and make your bed and stuff.

Konstantin Kisin 1:13:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:26 And do it remarkably human-like. There's a video that was released yesterday. Again, I don't know if it's real.

Konstantin Kisin 1:13:33 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:13:33 But it looks real. It looks like an actual robot that's making your bed. And they've gotten the, the dexterity to the point where you could imagine things like this happening, and I think this is one of the reason why Elon is shifting his focus away from some Tesla models so that they can reset up one of their factories to make these Optimus robots, that you're gonna have them as home companions.

Konstantin Kisin 1:13:55 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:13:56 And they're gonna be able to do kitchen work for you, and maybe even cook.

Konstantin Kisin 1:13:59 Mm. My acupuncturist, she's Chinese, she went back to China, and she was saying, she stayed at the hotel and, like, most of the services there is provided by robots. So, like, she, she went to her room, ordered some food. Three minutes, knock, knock, and it's a fucking robot delivering the food.

Joe Rogan 1:14:15 An actual humanoid-looking robot?

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:17 Uh, no, I don't think so.

Joe Rogan 1:14:18 'Cause there's a restaurant out here that you go to and when you order drinks-

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:21 Right

Joe Rogan 1:14:21 ... it comes by on a little robot trolley.

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:23 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have that in the UK as well.

Joe Rogan 1:14:24 And you have to say accept.

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:25 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:14:26 You take your tea. Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:27 It's kinda cool.

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:28 It's fun.

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:29 Here it is.

Speaker 1:14:29 This, this is not called Skynet, I don't believe, but-

Francis Foster 1:14:31 Oh, sorry. N-

Speaker 1:14:32 ... Engine AI is the company

Francis Foster 1:14:33 ... that was wrong.

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:33 No, this is the factory.

Speaker 1:14:34 It is. They did name it after the Terminator, I think.

Joe Rogan 1:14:36 Bro.

Speaker 1:14:36 But I can't tell what this is.

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:37 T- T-800.

Joe Rogan 1:14:38 T-800.

Francis Foster 1:14:38 T-800. They-

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:39 Yeah, the T-900 is coming

Joe Rogan 1:14:40 ... T-900 is in development.

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:40 Yeah. [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:14:41 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:14:41 Look what it looks like, though.

Speaker 1:14:42 Feel like I'm in a weird movie here, so-

Joe Rogan 1:14:44 Wow

Speaker 1:14:44 ... this could be for a movie and we're misunderstanding what this is.

Joe Rogan 1:14:47 That looks fake.

Speaker 1:14:47 Yeah, that looks fake, right?

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:48 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:49 The robot itself looks fake.

Speaker 1:14:50 That's why I liked hearing Konstantin on it.

Konstantin Kisin 1:14:52 Yeah, the movement doesn't look-

Speaker 1:14:53 This doesn't seem real.

Joe Rogan 1:14:54 Well, it just, it's in that... First of all, I don't like how it's lit.

Speaker 1:14:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:58 I don't like how this room is lit. I feel like you would-

Speaker 1:15:00 If it was for a film-

Konstantin Kisin 1:15:02 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:15:02 ... yeah.

Speaker 1:15:03 That's not real.

Joe Rogan 1:15:03 That's a bullshit-ass factory.

Speaker 1:15:04 Yeah, I think that's, this is a mistake.

Konstantin Kisin 1:15:06 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:15:07 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:15:07 Joe's like, "This is my area of expertise. No way." [laughs]

Speaker 1:15:09 There's a lot of videos of it that say it's real, but [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:15:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:12 I like how the, the bag went flying, like it's on a rail.

Francis Foster 1:15:15 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:15:15 You know? It's not even stationary, 'cause you don't, you don't wanna really see how hard it can kick.

Speaker 1:15:19 Well, I just clicked over to this Forbes article, but it says you can buy it for 40 grand.

Joe Rogan 1:15:21 Unlucky agility. Wow.

Speaker 1:15:23 But I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:15:24 Right now?

Speaker 1:15:25 No, that's... I don't know. This might be bullshit.

Joe Rogan 1:15:27 Yeah, look at it. It's got the Iron Man thing in the center of its chest.

Francis Foster 1:15:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:29 That's pretty dope. Hmm.

Francis Foster 1:15:36 You know, and it's too-

Speaker 1:15:36 And I would just say, uh-

Konstantin Kisin 1:15:37 Punch

Speaker 1:15:37 ... Engine AI would, makes it just right away sound like it's a, a AI content company, not a robot company.

Joe Rogan 1:15:45 Right. Well, that video looked very AI-like. It didn't... The, there's something about it. You know, your brain recognizes miniature cars. You ever see, like, a miniature car? Like, you know, you know how they have those, like, really well-done miniature cars that people like to collect?

Konstantin Kisin 1:16:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Francis Foster 1:16:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:00 It's like a, a tiny Porsche.

Konstantin Kisin 1:16:02 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:16:02 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:16:02 But your brain knows. Like, your brain looks at it and goes-

Konstantin Kisin 1:16:06 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:16:06 ... "There's something wrong here."

Konstantin Kisin 1:16:07 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:07 "This is not real."

Konstantin Kisin 1:16:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:08 That's how I felt-

Konstantin Kisin 1:16:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:16:10 ... looking at that robot.

Francis Foster 1:16:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:10 Like, my brain was like, "Mm-mm. That's not a real thing throwing kicks."

Francis Foster 1:16:15 Yeah. But it's gonna come to a point where it's like, is that real?

Joe Rogan 1:16:19 Oh, yeah. I mean, it's probably... ChatGPT-5 can already probably do it better than that. You know, we don't know what the newest iterations of these things are, and they're improving radically all the time.

Speaker 1:16:31 There's no... I just don't believe it. The beginning of this video says they're doing CGI.

Francis Foster 1:16:35 Don't you think?

Speaker 1:16:35 Which I don't, I don't know, I don't know why we have to believe that.

Joe Rogan 1:16:37 Bro, this looks fake to me.

Speaker 1:16:38 It looks fake as shit. I know.

Joe Rogan 1:16:39 This looks fake to me. That does not look real.

Speaker 1:16:41 There's articles all over saying it's real, but it doesn't look real at all.

Joe Rogan 1:16:44 Yeah, but I mean, why wouldn't you have it more well-lit? Like, if I was gonna do something like this, I would have spotlights on it and people next to it so that I could examine their shadows and it sh- this is weird.

Speaker 1:16:54 Yeah, this is like a com- ad.

Joe Rogan 1:16:55 Looks fake.

Konstantin Kisin 1:16:56 Also, why would you have, like-

Joe Rogan 1:16:57 Why is the light coming through the corner of the window like that?

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:01 Also, why would you make a robot that does, like, martial arts? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:04 Karate. To shoot people, bro.

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:05 Right.

Francis Foster 1:17:05 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:17:06 Yeah. Why would you throw that bullshit kick, too? That's a 360 roundhouse kick. That almost never lands.

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:11 [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:17:12 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:17:12 That's really hard to pull off.

Francis Foster 1:17:14 Yeah, but you're saying that as a human.

Joe Rogan 1:17:15 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:17:16 Maybe as an AI, you land it every time.

Joe Rogan 1:17:17 No, it's slow.

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:18 But surely if you're a robot, you just grab their neck with your metal claw and crush it.

Joe Rogan 1:17:21 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:21 I mean, you've, you've-

Joe Rogan 1:17:22 Just run after them and headbutt them-

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:24 Right

Joe Rogan 1:17:24 ... and knock them unconscious.

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:17:25 Well, your head's made out of metal.

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:17:26 The whole thing is crazy.

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:28 Like, why would you be throwing wheel kicks? Like, the, you know-

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:32 Would you like, would you like-

Joe Rogan 1:17:33 Even if you, even if you, like, went over UFC fights and say, like, "What's the most effective techniques that work most of the time?" Why would you program in 360 roundhouse kicks? That fucking never comes up.

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:42 Mm.

Francis Foster 1:17:43 Yeah. I mean, it does look cool, though.

Joe Rogan 1:17:45 Yeah, but I, I could think of one fight. Uh, Yair Rodriguez pulled it off on BJ Penn.

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:50 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:17:51 But that was BJ Penn towards the latter end of his career, Yair Rodriguez in his peak, and Yair is exceptionally talented. He's f- kind of a freak with his kicks.

Konstantin Kisin 1:17:59 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:18:00 But it's almost like he was showing off. He already had BJ really hurt, and then he just threw a s- 360 roundhouse kick and he hit him in the face. It was crazy.

Konstantin Kisin 1:18:07 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:18:07 But that, this thing is doing that just to show you it does martial arts. Why would you need martial arts? Like, you, you, you should have, like, 1,000 bullets on you. Just... [imitates machine gun]

Francis Foster 1:18:16 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:18:16 Just, like, gun everybody down with your fingertips.

Konstantin Kisin 1:18:18 Robot kung fu.

Joe Rogan 1:18:19 Yeah. Why wouldn't you turn your r- like, you know, like, like Iron Man does? [imitates whooshing] Shoot fire out of your palms.

Konstantin Kisin 1:18:25 The future's bright, Joe. [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:18:27 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:18:27 Well, we're also kind of being bullshitted, I think.

Konstantin Kisin 1:18:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:18:30 I mean, like, uh, is there a way to an- analyze that video?

Speaker 1:18:33 No, I'm just as... I'm going d- this rabbit hole is strange. This is a website that they've made that says you can buy it. When you click on Buy Now, it takes you somewhere else, and I think that that's the first sign of-

Joe Rogan 1:18:42 And it steals your IP address

Speaker 1:18:43 ... of a moment. Yeah, that's where I'm like, "I'm not clicking that again."

Joe Rogan 1:18:45 Gets all your credit card information.

Konstantin Kisin 1:18:46 [laughs]

Speaker 1:18:46 But it's a fully made website. They have a team. They got a CEO. They've got other things.

Joe Rogan 1:18:50 Hmm.

Speaker 1:18:51 It just, it doesn't seem... This all looks fake to me, like it's for a movie. Like, this is, like, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:18:55 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:18:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:56 Maybe it is. Maybe this is, like, a setup for a movie-

Speaker 1:18:59 But that's not real

Joe Rogan 1:18:59 ... and we're being fucked with.

Speaker 1:19:00 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:19:01 Well, we're giving them a lot of free advertising.

Joe Rogan 1:19:02 For sure, for sure. [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:19:04 [laughs]

Speaker 1:19:04 That's why even Googling it, there's lots of articles about it. People are talking about it like it's real and discussing it like it's real, and no one that I've even seen is like, "This is obviously fake. This is obviously AI."

Joe Rogan 1:19:14 I like how it's got the Cylon eyes.

Francis Foster 1:19:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:16 By your command.

Francis Foster 1:19:18 Yeah.

Speaker 1:19:18 They've got, uh, other products here for sale, which-

Joe Rogan 1:19:21 Oh

Speaker 1:19:21 ... none of those fit in line with other robots who've signed up for that.

Joe Rogan 1:19:23 Whoa, click on that though.

Francis Foster 1:19:24 [laughs]

Speaker 1:19:24 I don't know what the fuck this is.

Joe Rogan 1:19:25 Bro, that's the guy from Monsters Inc.

Francis Foster 1:19:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:27 The one big eyeball?

Speaker 1:19:28 It's a really well-made website. It looks nice.

Joe Rogan 1:19:31 Interesting.

Speaker 1:19:32 They did some good fun work. But it just seems like a fun project someone made.

Joe Rogan 1:19:35 Mm.

Francis Foster 1:19:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:37 Stay tuned for this one. You can't buy this yet.

Francis Foster 1:19:39 Yeah. Give it two years.

Speaker 1:19:40 That's actually what happens in-

Joe Rogan 1:19:40 What about the dog? What about the guy who has just got legs? That one's weird.

Speaker 1:19:45 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:45 What's that? [laughing] It's like, I don't want him touching me. Just run around my house and do some stuff.

Francis Foster 1:19:52 Yeah.

Speaker 1:19:52 A highly expandable bipedal robot that supports user cus- blah, blah, blah. Uh, see what-

Joe Rogan 1:19:57 Interesting

Speaker 1:19:57 ... watch this is why I hit purchase now. You can already see the website at the bottom. That doesn't look... It's three.cn-

Francis Foster 1:20:02 Right

Speaker 1:20:02 ... so it's a China website.

Joe Rogan 1:20:03 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:20:04 Not this-

Joe Rogan 1:20:04 Blank

Speaker 1:20:05 ... probably getting loaded.

Francis Foster 1:20:06 It's loading.

Joe Rogan 1:20:06 Okay.

Francis Foster 1:20:07 There we go.

Speaker 1:20:07 Now you see it-

Francis Foster 1:20:07 It's in Chinese

Speaker 1:20:08 ... take you somewhere else. Now it's like, uh, what is that? Ha. It's definitely not a buy now. [laughing]

Joe Rogan 1:20:14 Maybe that red thing is.

Speaker 1:20:15 No.

Francis Foster 1:20:15 Yes.

Speaker 1:20:15 This is like, this is I think-

Francis Foster 1:20:17 Register your interest maybe?

Speaker 1:20:18 ... like a back-end website.

Joe Rogan 1:20:20 Interesting.

Speaker 1:20:20 Yeah. They just didn't click the right link here-

Francis Foster 1:20:22 Right. Yeah

Speaker 1:20:22 ... 'cause it opened up a different-

Francis Foster 1:20:23 I don't think this is real.

Joe Rogan 1:20:24 Oh.

Speaker 1:20:24 But this is like-

Joe Rogan 1:20:25 Interesting

Speaker 1:20:26 ... whatever this is, is very... They did it well. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:20:29 Interesting.

Francis Foster 1:20:31 That is-

Speaker 1:20:31 Even if it's a, a college kid making a project-

Joe Rogan 1:20:34 Mm

Speaker 1:20:34 ... good job.

Francis Foster 1:20:36 Well, I take full responsibility for that one.

Speaker 1:20:38 See, I know it's fine. [laughing] I mean-

Francis Foster 1:20:39 I take responsibility.

Speaker 1:20:40 It looks good.

Francis Foster 1:20:41 That was me. Don't listen to-

Joe Rogan 1:20:42 But look, there's a Forbes article

Francis Foster 1:20:42 ... that was me.

Speaker 1:20:43 I know. That's a-

Joe Rogan 1:20:43 There's a Forbes article

Speaker 1:20:44 ... anybody can make a Forbes article.

Francis Foster 1:20:45 Yeah.

Speaker 1:20:45 That's kind of another-

Francis Foster 1:20:46 It's a-

Joe Rogan 1:20:47 What?

Speaker 1:20:47 Yeah. Not anybody, but, like, you can make, we can make Forbes articles that say all sorts of stuff. It's not coming from Forbes editorial team per se.

Joe Rogan 1:20:56 But you, but, but, but you can publish on Forbes?

Speaker 1:20:58 Uh, let me... I don't, I don't wanna speak out of turn specifically, but, like, I've seen there's so many, like, uh, reviews for video games that pop up, like, every single day that it's like it's... You can be a contributor I believe is what it would be. Not like-

Joe Rogan 1:21:10 Oh-

Speaker 1:21:10 Um, they're-

Joe Rogan 1:21:10 ... and maybe they have a bad editorial team.

Speaker 1:21:12 Yeah, like that.

Joe Rogan 1:21:13 And you could sneak this through.

Speaker 1:21:14 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:21:15 And just pretend that there really is a... That would be a great pro- prank to pull.

Francis Foster 1:21:19 Yeah. That's-

Joe Rogan 1:21:19 It's great hoax.

Francis Foster 1:21:20 Did you follow the Mote book thing?

Joe Rogan 1:21:22 No.

Francis Foster 1:21:23 I mean this... Did you follow Mote book?

Speaker 1:21:25 Yeah. F- I just actually saw that. I think Meta just bought it today.

Francis Foster 1:21:28 Meta just bought it today, so this is-

Speaker 1:21:29 I, I thought it was fake.

Francis Foster 1:21:30 Did you... Was that fake as well?

Speaker 1:21:32 No, it's... I don't, I don't know why they would have bought it.

Joe Rogan 1:21:33 How weird is it we have to worry about everything being fake now?

Francis Foster 1:21:35 Francis just here spreading fake news on the whole podcast. [laughing]

Speaker 1:21:38 No, I, I, I didn't... I was just very cynical about it 'cause it, it... The idea of it sounds right, but, like, that actual bots are making a social network to do stuff and talk about us and whatever kinda sounds too far into the sci-fi realm.

Joe Rogan 1:21:50 So this is the social network for AI agents.

Francis Foster 1:21:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:54 I have heard about this.

Speaker 1:21:55 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:21:55 Well, they, they, they complain about humans. Is that right?

Speaker 1:21:58 Yeah. [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:21:59 These fuckers are-

Speaker 1:22:00 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:22:01 [sighs]

Speaker 1:22:02 Yeah. And apparently they-

Joe Rogan 1:22:02 Oh my God

Speaker 1:22:02 ... created their own language-

Joe Rogan 1:22:04 Oh my God

Speaker 1:22:04 ... and they talked amongst themselves so that we wouldn't be able to access and see what they were talking about.

Joe Rogan 1:22:08 Yeah, that's really fun. Did you see when they got all the AI agents to talk to each other and they started using Sanskrit?

Francis Foster 1:22:13 No.

Joe Rogan 1:22:14 Yeah. They got these different lar- large language models to communicate with each other, and they eventually broke out into Sanskrit.

Francis Foster 1:22:20 Wow. [laughs]

Speaker 1:22:23 That's very strange.

Joe Rogan 1:22:24 Maybe these guys in, um, Iran are right. Like, maybe this is the apocalypse. Maybe this is how it comes about. Maybe we're, we're looking at each other, and we're gonna bring about these motherfuckers, and that's what's really gonna be the end of civilization.

Francis Foster 1:22:39 Yeah, and places like Iran is the only place you're gonna be able to hide as a, as a human 'cause it's the one place that hasn't adapt- adopted all this shit, right?

Joe Rogan 1:22:46 Yeah. Maybe Afghanistan's the spot to go.

Francis Foster 1:22:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:48 Just live like a goat herder.

Francis Foster 1:22:49 Yeah, we're gonna be like Bin Laden, just living in a cave. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:22:53 Ai, yai, yai, yai, yai.

Francis Foster 1:22:55 I mean, you're being very negative, boys. There's another option.

Joe Rogan 1:22:57 [laughs]

Speaker 1:22:58 [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:22:58 There's another option.

Joe Rogan 1:22:59 What is that?

Francis Foster 1:22:59 There's another option.

Joe Rogan 1:23:00 What's the other option? What's the other option?

Francis Foster 1:23:01 We all become Amish.

Joe Rogan 1:23:03 Oh, okay. But then we're run by s- AI.

Francis Foster 1:23:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:06 We're, we're, we're Amish and we live in our little communities, but we have no say on how the world works. So this is the real fear is that we're no longer the apex intelligence of the planet.

Francis Foster 1:23:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:16 And that seems to already be the case.

Francis Foster 1:23:18 Yeah.

Speaker 1:23:19 This is for the Forbes thing I was talking about. The article we had I don't think was specifically this, but I've seen many articles like this where people can submit, I guess-

Joe Rogan 1:23:27 One-off original articles to the opinion section, particularly for topics related to business tech or pols tech. There you go.

Speaker 1:23:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:33 Or policy by emailing pitches to ideas@forbes.com. So yeah, like, so if you're a person on the other end just looking for clicks-

Speaker 1:23:41 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:23:42 ... like, that would be a good one. You see it. Like, oh, this is a really well-written article. Let's go to the website.

Speaker 1:23:47 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:23:47 Website looks legit. Oh, they're throwing wheel kicks. I'm in. [laughing]

Francis Foster 1:23:54 Yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:23:55 Motherfuckers

Francis Foster 1:23:57 ... but the, again, the, the, the point being made again is, like, it's such a, it's such a terrifying world where you don't know if what you're seeing is true. You don't know if what you're reading is accurate-

Joe Rogan 1:24:10 Right

Francis Foster 1:24:11 ... to the point where you can't help if that's the case, that the world you live in continually feeding things that may or may not be true or altered or, or doctored. Wouldn't that just put you in a state of paranoia after a while?

Joe Rogan 1:24:23 100%. Now imagine if you are in the Middle East and, uh, you bust out your cellphone because a fiery cloud emerges, and Jesus is on a white horse. And you film it, and you post it online. Who's gonna believe it, right? This is the real problem with Jesus returning. If he returned now, no one would buy it. Like, we're, we're getting into this, like... Like, imagine Jesus is a real person or a real God who's the Son of God, who's gonna come back. He really is.

Francis Foster 1:24:52 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:24:52 It's real. It's all real. It's happening at the same time where you have no idea what's real, and it all converges instantaneously with the rise of sentient artificial general super intelligence that has complete autonomy. It's running all the resources, everything. A- A- Anything that's attached to a computer, which is basically everything. All of our power, all of our... You know, everything. Fi- Fill in the blank. Everything's run by computers, and now AI has control of everything and no longer wants to listen to human beings, and Jesus returns.Yeah. I mean, that might be what everybody's talking about when they're talking about Armageddon, when they're talking about the end of civilization. It might be this new thing that we're creating.

Konstantin Kisin 1:25:39 Well, if that happens, I'll be rooting for Jesus to return [laughs] .

Joe Rogan 1:25:42 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:25:42 "Oh no, please, Jesus. I'm not sure I believe in you, but please come back."

Joe Rogan 1:25:46 Yeah. I'm not sure either. But this is... I mean, maybe he d- maybe a historical Jesus existed at one point in time, and maybe what they're talking about is, like, their version of the cycles of humanity that other religions have talked about, is that especially when you deal with technology and power-

Konstantin Kisin 1:26:03 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:26:03 ... and civilization, that things get to a point where they always go sideways, and then there's dark times, and then they r- and then society... Like the yugas. Like, you know.

Konstantin Kisin 1:26:12 What are the yugas?

Joe Rogan 1:26:13 The yugas are the cycles of civilization that... Let's, uh, I don't wanna fuck this up, so let's, um, define the yu- we're in the middle of Kali Yuga, which is the, the age of confusion. And it-

Konstantin Kisin 1:26:26 Feels like it.

Joe Rogan 1:26:27 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:26:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:26:27 Yeah. I mean, it's odd how accurate these cycles are-

Konstantin Kisin 1:26:33 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:26:33 ... when you look at historical events and, like, what things were like, you know, X amount of thousands of years ago.

Konstantin Kisin 1:26:40 It's Hindu cosmology.

Joe Rogan 1:26:41 Yes. Um, vast cosmic ages in Hindu cosmology describe reoccurring cycles in the moral and spiritual state of the world. So the four yu- yugas are Satya Yuga, the first and most righteous age, often called the Golden Age, marked by truth, virtue, and maximum dharma, which is moral order. Ah, Treta Yuga, the second age. Ah, dr- ah, dharma declines somewhat. Virtue st- still predominates, but imbalance begins. Uh, how do you say that word? Dwapara Yuga, the third age, with, with further decline in righteousness and an increase in conflict, suffering, and confusion. And then Kali Yuga, the fourth and darkest age, characterized by moral decay-

Konstantin Kisin 1:27:25 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:27:25 ... ignorance, and materialism, with dharma at its weakest. Okay. That's us.

Konstantin Kisin 1:27:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:27:32 Hindu cosmology treats these yugas as repeating cycles of creation, growth, decline, and destruction, rather than one-time historical periods. Yeah. Very interesting, right?

Konstantin Kisin 1:27:43 Do you know, it's, it's even more noticeable for us coming to America, I think, because, you know, we love America, but one of the things that really stands out is how materialistic people are and how much money is, like, the number one thing for everything now.

Joe Rogan 1:27:55 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:27:55 I find that really... It, it, it, it stands out to me.

Joe Rogan 1:27:59 Mm-hmm.

Konstantin Kisin 1:28:00 The fact that... So, and I find it weird in our game especially, like in media and podcasting and whatever, like, 'cause the way we think about what we do is we're trying to produce content that's actually of value to people. But we also meet a lot of people for whom it's, it's like a business. It's like, it's like selling widgets. It's the same.

Joe Rogan 1:28:18 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:28:18 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:28:19 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:28:19 How do you get-

Joe Rogan 1:28:19 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 1:28:20 ... how do you maximize your returns on your investment?

Joe Rogan 1:28:22 Right, right, right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:28:22 You know? Um, and that to me is, it, the, it's, um, it shows you that something is slightly off.

Joe Rogan 1:28:30 Yeah. It is.

Konstantin Kisin 1:28:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:31 It's... And you, you also get a lot of... You get people that are making content just based only on the perceived popularity of that content-

Konstantin Kisin 1:28:40 Right. Mm

Joe Rogan 1:28:41 ... not whether or not they are really interested in having these conversations.

Konstantin Kisin 1:28:44 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:28:44 And you feel it when you're talking to these people or when you're listening to these people talk to each other, rather. Yeah, um, the clickbait stuff, a lot of celebrity stuff.

Konstantin Kisin 1:28:52 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:28:53 You know, um, uh, Bert Kreischer went on Shannon Sharpe's podcast, and he said they basically have, like, a, a list of, like, controversial things they could talk about.

Konstantin Kisin 1:29:01 Mm. Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:29:02 And, you know, and subjects they think are gonna get the, the most amount of traction, and tha- those are the questions that he asks. You just ask questions off of a list.

Konstantin Kisin 1:29:09 But from a business point of view-

Joe Rogan 1:29:11 Right

Konstantin Kisin 1:29:11 ... if you take morality out of it, that's the smart thing to do, Joe.

Joe Rogan 1:29:14 Is it, though? Is it, though? Because, like, what, what's the most popular show? It's this one. And why is this one the most popular? Because I don't do that at all.

Konstantin Kisin 1:29:21 Mm. But ag- agreed, but you're sort of an outlier in that. There's people who make a very, very, very good living interviewing those types of people, having that type of approach, and creating that type of content.

Joe Rogan 1:29:35 I know, but I think in the end you bite off your nose to spite your face. 'Cause I think that you lose a certain amount of authenticity. There's a certain amount of, like, a legitimate connection between you and whatever you're talking about-

Konstantin Kisin 1:29:48 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:29:48 ... that it doesn't get through to the people. Like, if I talk to someone, I'm only talking to them 'cause I want to.

Konstantin Kisin 1:29:53 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:29:53 Like, uh, and I have a lot of people on that are not even remotely popular or famous.

Konstantin Kisin 1:29:57 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:29:58 But I think they wrote an interesting book, or I think they're involved in interesting research, or I think they've got a weird opinion on something and I wanna talk to them about, or they've had a strange life or-

Konstantin Kisin 1:30:06 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:30:06 ... you know, they were an undercover cop or whatever it is. I w- I, I'm just interested.

Konstantin Kisin 1:30:10 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30:11 And I think that if you abandon that and only focus on, ooh, this person is famous, or this person's in the news, or this is a, this is gonna get a lot of views, you don't care as much about the conversation you're having.

Konstantin Kisin 1:30:24 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:30:24 And the people know.

Konstantin Kisin 1:30:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30:25 So, like, the person listening and watching, they can feel it.

Konstantin Kisin 1:30:29 No, I agree with that, but I also think you could probably get a lot of clicks by saying, I don't know, Erika Kirk killed Charlie Kirk, right?

Joe Rogan 1:30:35 You could do that too, but you're also w- you're, you're playing a weird game, where you gotta continually go deeper and deeper and deeper, and now Erika Kirk's a man.

Konstantin Kisin 1:30:44 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:30:44 You know? You know what I'm saying?

Konstantin Kisin 1:30:46 That's probably next in the best-

Joe Rogan 1:30:47 Yeah, yeah. Uh, has that already happened? Uh, probably, that's probably already happened.

Konstantin Kisin 1:30:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30:50 Someone's probably already floated that one out there.

Konstantin Kisin 1:30:52 Yeah. And you saying over time that runs, you run out of-

Joe Rogan 1:30:55 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 1:30:55 ... you run out of road.

Joe Rogan 1:30:56 You're playing the wrong game.

Konstantin Kisin 1:30:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30:58 You're, you're playing, you're playing a very similar game to the game that, like, TMZ is playing.

Konstantin Kisin 1:31:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:31:04 Or any of these other, like, things where you can get a lot of traction, you can get a lot of views, you know, but no one thinks you're being authentic. No one... Like, if you have a take on world events and we're incredibly sorry for the loss of this person, like, you don't really care.

Konstantin Kisin 1:31:18 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:31:19 And they know you don't really care.

Konstantin Kisin 1:31:20 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:31:20 So they, they know there's no sincerity. They know you're not really connected to it. And so in this weird age that we're living in where you're not sure what's real, at the very least you want the person who's talking to be talking about something... in an honest way

Speaker 1:31:36 Right

Joe Rogan 1:31:37 And connecting with people in an honest way. 'Cause that's what we're missing.

Speaker 1:31:41 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:31:41 And that might be the only thing we have left once this AI shit goes live.

Speaker 1:31:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:31:45 Like, it's, it's probably not even gonna be podcasts, it's probably gonna be public speaking. It's gonna... You're gonna have to, like, talk to people in groups, and we're gonna all have to, like, work ideas out together.

Speaker 1:31:56 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:31:56 Because I don't think you're gonna be able to know when you're communicating online what's real and what's not real.

Speaker 1:32:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:01 We're already in the fog. We're... We haven't hit the fucking full hailstorm-

Speaker 1:32:05 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:32:06 ... of bullshit-

Speaker 1:32:07 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:32:07 ... that's coming our way.

Speaker 1:32:08 Mm.

Francis Foster 1:32:08 Yeah. And it... But I, I agree with you, Joe. And I agree if you want something that is sustainable, if you want something that is nourishing, if you want s- if you wanna create content that people engage with that is honest. But I think there's a lot of people out there who are just looking at it in a very cynical way, and they're optimizing it for clicks, attention, and monetary gain.

Joe Rogan 1:32:28 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:32:29 And if you wanna create a s- a business that can make money, and that is, that doesn't require a lot of lift, we all know what you can do.

Joe Rogan 1:32:38 That's the Eagles song, Dirty Laundry.

Francis Foster 1:32:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:40 You know? It's the... They've always been doing it.

Speaker 1:32:42 The robot's real.

Joe Rogan 1:32:43 It's real?

Guest 1:32:44 Jamie's still on this. [laughs]

Speaker 1:32:45 It doesn't do all the jumping and shit.

Francis Foster 1:32:46 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 1:32:47 Oh, okay. [laughs]

Speaker 1:32:48 It's from CES.

Joe Rogan 1:32:49 Oh, okay.

Speaker 1:32:49 Identified the real. This is-

Joe Rogan 1:32:50 Okay. That looks-

Guest 1:32:51 That looks real, yeah [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:32:51 ... way more real. Yeah. So the videos we were watching were bullshit.

Speaker 1:32:55 So the... This went viral a while ago. They've, they had to come out and make other videos... Oh, this is a different one, uh, to say that-

Joe Rogan 1:33:01 Oh my God, that's so I, Robot

Speaker 1:33:03 ... I know they had a, that, that co- so the-

Joe Rogan 1:33:04 Lined up military style

Speaker 1:33:05 ... the CEA-

Joe Rogan 1:33:05 I don't like that

Speaker 1:33:05 ... there's a few different companies in China that have gone viral for posting videos that people in America think are fake, and that's why I had to go to CES and find somebody else's. 'Cause they put out more content that doesn't necessarily look fake, but it doesn't look better.

Joe Rogan 1:33:20 Well, that doesn't look fake.

Speaker 1:33:22 Yeah, this does not look fake-

Joe Rogan 1:33:23 But-

Speaker 1:33:23 ... 'cause this is people on the floor at CES.

Joe Rogan 1:33:24 Right. But look how much more awkward-

Speaker 1:33:26 Right, right

Joe Rogan 1:33:26 ... its movements are.

Speaker 1:33:28 But they put out a video where the thing is kicking the CEO.

Joe Rogan 1:33:31 [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:33:32 [laughs]

Speaker 1:33:32 Yeah. No, it, it-

Joe Rogan 1:33:33 [laughs]

Speaker 1:33:33 ... it almost looks real, but it's not. It, it, I... It's tough. I like to see what the other clips of it.

Joe Rogan 1:33:39 Let me see. It... Is it funky lighting again?

Speaker 1:33:42 It's not, not that.

Joe Rogan 1:33:43 Fuck outta here.

Speaker 1:33:44 It's... Hold on, hold on.

Francis Foster 1:33:44 [laughs]

Speaker 1:33:44 It's when they're in the room with them.

Joe Rogan 1:33:46 Okay.

Speaker 1:33:46 Hold on a second. See.

Joe Rogan 1:33:49 Okay, so he's gonna go ahead. Okay. That looks much more real. That looks much more real, much more awkward. [thud]

Guest 1:33:56 Geez.

Speaker 1:33:56 But that didn't... That looks fake. That looks like it's green screened.

Guest 1:33:58 I tell you what, I wouldn't, I would not do that if I were-

Joe Rogan 1:34:00 No, no.

Francis Foster 1:34:01 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:34:01 That looks real to me.

Guest 1:34:02 Stand in front of a hunk of metal that's gonna kick you.

Joe Rogan 1:34:05 It's... The problem is it's slow motion.

Speaker 1:34:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:34:06 Let me see it again. In, in fa- did they show it in real speed?

Speaker 1:34:09 It's, it's just this weird clip of it-

Joe Rogan 1:34:10 Let me see

Speaker 1:34:10 ... which is kind of strange, but-

Joe Rogan 1:34:11 Let me see it again. Taking the first kick. Oh.

Speaker 1:34:16 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:34:17 That looks real.

Speaker 1:34:19 The only thing I would say is it's, it's not jumping up and doing spin kicks, but it's doing some-

Joe Rogan 1:34:22 Right

Speaker 1:34:22 ... other stuff that it showed.

Joe Rogan 1:34:23 Well, that would be what I would teach it, first of all. I wouldn't teach it to do the spin kick, so I'd teach it to do, like, a stepping front kick like that.

Speaker 1:34:30 Like, that's the shit they were showing that people had problems with, like we j- just did, but-

Joe Rogan 1:34:34 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:34:34 ... I... Man, that-

Joe Rogan 1:34:36 Yeah

Speaker 1:34:36 ... the robots are doing crazy stuff, like in this.

Joe Rogan 1:34:38 Well, they definitely can do crazy stuff. There was that one demonstration they did in China. I, I'm, uh, I think you've seen that once.

Speaker 1:34:44 See it's bouncing around-

Joe Rogan 1:34:45 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:34:45 ... like in a fight position here. Like, he's ready to go.

Joe Rogan 1:34:47 Checking its legs out. Wow. But let me see some wheel kicks.

Speaker 1:34:52 That's the... I mean.

Joe Rogan 1:34:53 See, that's the thing. I mean-

Francis Foster 1:34:54 Why is the one in the corner looking depressed?

Joe Rogan 1:34:56 [laughs]

Guest 1:34:56 [laughs]

Speaker 1:34:56 Oh, that's the older one. The, the, uh, sad, sad, older version.

Guest 1:34:59 It's been decommissioned.

Joe Rogan 1:35:00 He's, he's right now-

Speaker 1:35:01 It's been upgraded

Joe Rogan 1:35:01 ... plotting his strategy for blackmail to get-

Speaker 1:35:04 [laughs]

Guest 1:35:04 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:35:04 ... upgraded software.

Francis Foster 1:35:05 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:35:06 Yeah.

Speaker 1:35:07 I don't know. So that, I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:35:09 Well, that's, this is-

Speaker 1:35:10 This-

Joe Rogan 1:35:10 So what we're really looking at was probably some AI, at least enhancements.

Speaker 1:35:15 They... But the problem-

Joe Rogan 1:35:15 But the-

Speaker 1:35:16 ... is they're not saying it. They're not admitting that it is, they're saying it's not.

Joe Rogan 1:35:18 Mm. Interesting.

Speaker 1:35:19 And I go, like, "Ah, that's tough."

Joe Rogan 1:35:21 Interesting. Well, I would wanna see this thing move in a similar way that you're seeing in that video. I mean, that thing shows remarkable agility, where it's jumping up in the air and spinning around.

Speaker 1:35:31 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:35:31 And this thing's not doing that.

Speaker 1:35:32 No.

Guest 1:35:33 It's moving very differently, isn't it?

Francis Foster 1:35:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35:35 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:35:36 There's a stiffness to its movements.

Speaker 1:35:38 Very strange, though.

Joe Rogan 1:35:39 Yeah.

Guest 1:35:39 Looks like you at the gym, mate.

Francis Foster 1:35:40 [laughs] Yeah, it does.

Joe Rogan 1:35:42 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:35:42 [laughs]

Speaker 1:35:43 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:35:43 It really does. Um, there was that, uh, the Chinese demonstration, though. There was a, a demonstration where these people were on a stage, and they were doing martial arts, and then the robots came out, and the robots did martial arts.

Speaker 1:35:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:35:56 That looked real.

Speaker 1:35:57 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 1:35:58 That was real.

Francis Foster 1:35:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35:59 But it didn't-

Speaker 1:36:00 Here's the other video we s- we sorta saw.

Joe Rogan 1:36:02 Oh, this is crazy.

Francis Foster 1:36:03 Oh my God. Is it?

Joe Rogan 1:36:04 This is crazy. That's where they reload.

Guest 1:36:09 And these are real, right?

Speaker 1:36:10 I think, yeah, this is a different video they had to post 'cause people didn't think these were real.

Joe Rogan 1:36:13 That looks real. [laughs]

Guest 1:36:19 [sighs] They look like they're Unsullied-

Joe Rogan 1:36:21 So-

Guest 1:36:22 ... from Game of Thrones.

Joe Rogan 1:36:23 What are these ones? Who makes these?

Speaker 1:36:27 I don't know. [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:36:28 I don't know. It doesn't look good, though.

Speaker 1:36:30 I don't like the sound. It-

Guest 1:36:30 That marching sound is not comforting, is it?

Joe Rogan 1:36:32 No.

Francis Foster 1:36:33 No. [laughs]

Speaker 1:36:33 It says, "World's first mass delivery of humanoid robots."

Joe Rogan 1:36:36 Yeah. You're gonna have cargo ships filled with these headed to America.

Guest 1:36:40 Wonderful.

Francis Foster 1:36:41 I mean, those are gonna be the new police officers.

Joe Rogan 1:36:43 Uh-huh.

Guest 1:36:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:44 Yeah. Yeah. That's not good. This is... I mean, this is Terminator.

Guest 1:36:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:50 This is the movie. I mean, and if you really were imagining, or if you were trying to warn people of an apocalypse, and you told it through stories for generation after generation, and then eventually people write down their versions of this story, and then it goes to 2026 where this stuff is actually happening, maybe this is what they were warning us about.

Speaker 1:37:12 Mm.

Francis Foster 1:37:12 Yeah. Do you remember in the '80s and the '90s and the early noughties, there was this run of great movies talking about how the robots are gonna take over?

Guest 1:37:19 And sci-fi books as well.

Joe Rogan 1:37:21 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:37:21 Yeah.

Guest 1:37:21 I mean, Isaac Asimov's stuff was amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:37:23 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:37:23 Philip K. Dick.

Joe Rogan 1:37:24 Yep.

Francis Foster 1:37:24 You know, um, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, which then became Blade Runner.

Joe Rogan 1:37:29 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:37:29 Uh, y- all, all of these. And then-No one's making those movies now, are they?

Konstantin Kisin 1:37:34 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:37:34 No. Too close to home.

Konstantin Kisin 1:37:36 [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:37:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:36 I guess I, Robot was probably the last one.

Francis Foster 1:37:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:39 Right?

Konstantin Kisin 1:37:39 Mm.

Francis Foster 1:37:39 Yeah. Which was, uh... I, R- you know, I, Robot, which was the one with Tom Cruise, Minority Report, which was based on a Philip K. Dick.

Konstantin Kisin 1:37:46 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:37:47 Right.

Francis Foster 1:37:48 But n- nobody's making them anymore 'cause everyone's like, "Dude, I, I know this is gonna happen."

Joe Rogan 1:37:52 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:37:52 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:37:52 "I don't need to see this."

Joe Rogan 1:37:54 Well, they're also talking about using AI to predict people's behavior, so they're talking about future crime. They're, they literally-

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:00 Minority Report.

Joe Rogan 1:38:00 Yeah. Yeah. So they've literally talked about one of the ways that AI could be implemented, you look at someone's history, you look at someone's behavior patterns, look at what they're doing now, and you predict, "Oh, this person has been radicalized. They're about to do X."

Francis Foster 1:38:14 Yeah, and there was-

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:15 They're about to tweet something [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:38:18 [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:38:18 [laughs] Yeah. That's... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:19 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:20 Arrest them.

Francis Foster 1:38:21 Yeah. Graham Linehan picks up his phone, there's a robot, kicks down the door and arrests him.

Joe Rogan 1:38:25 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:26 Poor Graham.

Francis Foster 1:38:26 But [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:26 Ah, he's doing all right now, I think.

Francis Foster 1:38:27 Yeah, he's... Yeah. He- well, he's in America, that's why he's doing all right.

Joe Rogan 1:38:30 Well, I, I think that backfired. You know?

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:31 I think people were outraged by that, 'cause it's so outrageous-

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:34 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:38:34 ... that you, you meet that guy at the airport and arrest him.

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:38 And it was right after he did this podcast, by the way.

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:40 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:38:40 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:40 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:38:42 Yeah, yeah. I, I remember gr- that's a moment, even when I was talking to comedians who were actually woke, they were like, "Yeah, that... This is... You can't do this."

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:52 The thing is, he didn't even do it in England, so you're arresting who- someone who's not a citizen of the United Kingdom for a crime-

Francis Foster 1:38:58 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 1:38:58 ... uh, I mean, if we accept that framing, that they didn't even commit in the country.

Joe Rogan 1:39:02 Right. Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:39:03 Like, the... It... [sighs]

Joe Rogan 1:39:07 Yeah, it's pretty kooky that they went with it.

Konstantin Kisin 1:39:09 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Francis Foster 1:39:10 Yeah. And I know it, the, the reason is because every police officer in airports in the UK have guns. But it's a really bad look. Like, there's five armed police officers-

Joe Rogan 1:39:22 Mm-hmm

Francis Foster 1:39:22 ... arresting a comedy writer.

Joe Rogan 1:39:24 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:39:25 And I bet you they felt bad doing it as well, 'cause it's not them that's making up these dumb rules.

Joe Rogan 1:39:28 Oh, I'm sure.

Konstantin Kisin 1:39:29 Nobody signs up to, like, arrest comedy writers-

Joe Rogan 1:39:32 Right

Konstantin Kisin 1:39:33 ... in airports. I don't, I don't think that's why the police do it. But the, the rules have just got so... They've got-

Joe Rogan 1:39:37 Well, you see it in the, like, the humiliation that a lot of these police officers face when they have to arrest someone for a Facebook post.

Konstantin Kisin 1:39:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:39:44 Which you could see, like, they are not happy.

Konstantin Kisin 1:39:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:39:46 And when people are protesting and yelling, "Are you fucking serious?" And they're like, "I'm just doing my job."

Konstantin Kisin 1:39:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39:52 You know? It's just-

Francis Foster 1:39:53 Yeah. And that's p- a large part of the problem. Y- we, we get, you know, former police officers on the show, and we got a lot of, you know, cops and former cops who watch the show, and they talk to us about the state the, the British police force is in, and it's demoralization.

Joe Rogan 1:40:07 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:40:07 Yeah, the rank and file don't want any of this shit. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:40:10 Well, same in America. M- in a lot of especially major blue cities, where just a few years ago they were running with that defund the police bullshit, and then things obviously went sideways, and most of them sort of course corrected for the most part.

Konstantin Kisin 1:40:24 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:40:24 Except in narrative. You know? The, the... It's not, like, public massive support for the police officers, 'cause they keep society together.

Konstantin Kisin 1:40:31 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:40:31 Like, in Austin, the, the cops responded in a minute. One minute. That guy started gunning people down at that bar, the cops were there and killed him in a minute.

Konstantin Kisin 1:40:39 That's incredible.

Francis Foster 1:40:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:40 Incredible. And they should be applauded for that. I mean, that's amazing. I mean, that... But, you know, even that, like, in this city, there hasn't been this big public support of those officers, this big celebration of those officers, this big acknowledgement of the importance of them and how they w- were willing to put their life on the line and react so quickly and so effectively.

Francis Foster 1:41:03 They're heroes.

Joe Rogan 1:41:04 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:41:04 That's what they are.

Joe Rogan 1:41:04 They're real heroes.

Francis Foster 1:41:05 They're heroes.

Joe Rogan 1:41:05 Yeah, they're real heroes.

Francis Foster 1:41:06 But-

Joe Rogan 1:41:06 And they're heroes that h- uh, have been demoralized by the last six years of, of horseshit, ever since the George Floyd protests, you know?

Konstantin Kisin 1:41:15 And well, it was happening before. I mean, if you, y- go back to Michael Brown.

Joe Rogan 1:41:18 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:41:19 Right? Michael Brown, what we were told in the media happened is not what happened.

Joe Rogan 1:41:22 Which one was Michael Brown?

Konstantin Kisin 1:41:23 Michael Brown was-

Joe Rogan 1:41:24 The guy who got shot in the car?

Konstantin Kisin 1:41:24 ... hands up, don't shoot.

Joe Rogan 1:41:26 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:41:26 That's... He didn't have his hands up.

Joe Rogan 1:41:27 Right, right, right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:41:28 And he didn't say, "Don't shoot."

Joe Rogan 1:41:29 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:41:29 He assaulted the police officer.

Joe Rogan 1:41:31 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:41:31 Right? But the media concoct the story, and I don't think... This is what w- we came back to, like, what's happening in new media, where people are putting out things that are really damaging to the fabric of our conversations.

Joe Rogan 1:41:42 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:41:43 Right? And what... how we talk about things. Like you say, I mean, there are bad, bad apple police officers. Of course there are. But the majority of them, they are people who are signing up to risk their life on a daily basis to protect other people in their community. And these people all have fucking PTSD, 'cause all they see is the worst of humanity day in, day out.

Joe Rogan 1:42:02 Yep.

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:03 Every single fucking day, they get in the car and they go and eat shit for the rest of the day.

Joe Rogan 1:42:07 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:07 And then they go home and they worry about not coming home.

Joe Rogan 1:42:10 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:11 And then someone tries to run them over with a car. Like, yeah, they're gonna fucking shoot.

Joe Rogan 1:42:14 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:14 You know? And it's, it's... And the thing is, that's how society falls apart, when you no longer honor and celebrate the people who are putting themselves on the line-

Joe Rogan 1:42:24 Well, not just that. In the-

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:24 ... to make it work

Joe Rogan 1:42:25 ... case of the lady running over... Or she wasn't running him over. I, I think she was trying to turn her w-

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:30 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:42:30 ... her car away from him. But that guy had been dragged by a car-

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:34 Right

Joe Rogan 1:42:34 ... just a few weeks earlier.

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:35 Right.

Francis Foster 1:42:35 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:35 That's what I'm saying.

Joe Rogan 1:42:36 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:36 So, but in an... S- see-

Joe Rogan 1:42:37 And then on top of that, you have people that are being paid to protest.

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:40 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:41 Right? So it's organized.

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:42 And I'm not saying that lady was, but many people are.

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:45 And then you've got all these people that that becomes the focus of their life.

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:48 It becomes a cause that's worthy. You live this mundane, boring life of desperation-

Konstantin Kisin 1:42:53 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:42:54 ... and then all of a sudden something comes along that gives you hope and meaning and, like, "This is my identity. My identity is I'm fighting fascism, and I'm out there in the street."

Konstantin Kisin 1:43:02 Right.

Francis Foster 1:43:02 You know, I was on, I was on the plane, uh, to the US, I think it was last year, and you know the movie Bridesmaids came up?

Joe Rogan 1:43:10 Yes.

Francis Foster 1:43:10 So, a really funny movie. It's 2013. I was like, "Oh, I, I want something light. Let's watch this comedy." The romantic interest in Bridesmaid, the main guy, you know who, what his job is? He's a cop.

Joe Rogan 1:43:21 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 1:43:22 Can you imagine a movie being made now, like a ro- hap- like, romantic comedy, where the main guy is a cop and he's a good guy?

Joe Rogan 1:43:30 Right. Mm.

Francis Foster 1:43:31 You just wouldn't see it.

Joe Rogan 1:43:32 Right. Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:43:32 You just wouldn't see it-

Joe Rogan 1:43:33 Right

Francis Foster 1:43:33 ... because cops are oppressors. They're-

Joe Rogan 1:43:35 He's an ICE agent now. [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:43:38 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:43:39 [laughs] Yeah, man. Do you know Yuri Bezmenov talked about this?

Joe Rogan 1:43:42 Yes.

Konstantin Kisin 1:43:43 He talked about this. He talked about the fact that when you see in the culture, you know, the military, the cops, the firefighters, all of these people, they're bad, and the criminal is the one that's to be understood and to be-

Joe Rogan 1:43:54 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 1:43:54 ... you know, all... That's how you flip society.

Joe Rogan 1:43:57 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:43:57 And that's what we've got.

Francis Foster 1:43:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:58 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:43:58 That's what we've got.

Joe Rogan 1:43:59 It's- the Bezmenov speech from 1984, which is by the way, such an appropriate date for him to make that-

Konstantin Kisin 1:44:05 [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:44:05 [laughs] Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:44:06 ... but it's, it's so eerie how all of that has actually come to pass. 'Cause back then nobody took him seriously at all.

Konstantin Kisin 1:44:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:44:13 Right? And it didn't, it wasn't until like the 2020s that people started reviewing that, and then once it got on YouTube-

Konstantin Kisin 1:44:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:44:19 ... then people were like, "Oh-

Konstantin Kisin 1:44:21 I-

Joe Rogan 1:44:21 ... this fucking guy nailed it."

Konstantin Kisin 1:44:22 I think it's YouTube, and also most people want- most people, in my experience, wanna pretend that everything is fine-

Joe Rogan 1:44:31 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 1:44:31 ... most of the time.

Joe Rogan 1:44:32 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:44:32 So if you come out in 2018 as we did, and say, "This woke shit is getting outta hand, and it's going in a bad direction, and it's gonna cause a lot of problems," people make you the problem.

Joe Rogan 1:44:43 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:44:43 They say, "You're wrong to talk about this." If you talk about grooming gangs, "You're bad and evil," and whatever. If you talk about free speech and people being arrested for tweets and all of this, people make you the bad guy. And it's only later... Like, I remember, I can't even remember who said it. But like, I, I had this... Oh, no, I remember who said it. One time I was on TV, uh, debating with this g- woman, uh, about this stuff, and I was saying cancel culture's bad, and she was saying, "It's all bullshit," blah, blah, blah. I met her a few years later, and she was like, "Yeah, I realize cancel culture is bad." And I went, "How'd you realize?" And she went, "When, when my friends started getting canceled." Right? Most people wanna pretend most of the time that everything is fine.

Joe Rogan 1:45:20 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:45:20 But when they start to see the reality of things, and it starts to affect them-

Francis Foster 1:45:24 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:45:25 Right

Konstantin Kisin 1:45:25 ... that's when they go, "Ah, maybe this Bezmenov guy had a point."

Francis Foster 1:45:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:29 I had an argument with a seemingly intelligent person who's a friend of mine when the NSA, when this whole, uh, mass buying thing was, the Edward Snowden stuff was released.

Konstantin Kisin 1:45:40 Right.

Francis Foster 1:45:40 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:45:40 And he was like, "Like, you can look at my shit. I'm not doing anything wrong. Like, what do you care?" I'm like, "Oh, that's such a crazy take."

Francis Foster 1:45:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:47 I'm like, so- so who? Who are, who are these perfect people that are watching over everything? You don't think any of them have either some financial or power-based incentive to do certain things or silence certain voices-

Konstantin Kisin 1:46:01 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:46:01 ... and find out what you're doing or maybe even manipulate you in, in some sort of a way, being able to have access to all of your emails, all of your phone calls? Those are just people, and all of them o- unelected bureaucrats. You, you think that's okay-

Konstantin Kisin 1:46:16 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:46:16 ... for those people to have access to everything you've ever said? That's crazy.

Francis Foster 1:46:20 And look, maybe the current government that we have in this place is, you know, would never dream of doing such a thing.

Joe Rogan 1:46:26 Right.

Francis Foster 1:46:26 And maybe they're entirely honorable, and everybody's a great person, and w- and, you know, they're this unique human being where they don't have any ulterior motives. But what's to say the next government-

Joe Rogan 1:46:36 Mm. Exactly

Francis Foster 1:46:37 ... comes in, won't do that-

Joe Rogan 1:46:38 Exactly

Francis Foster 1:46:38 ... and start looking in and going, "Hey, you know what? You're causing me problems, Joe Rogan."

Joe Rogan 1:46:42 Exactly.

Francis Foster 1:46:43 "You're saying a lot of things that I don't actually like. Let's look through your emails. Oh, look, I'll find one from 14 years ago," which is, you know, s- whatever it may be. "Let's get rid of you for that."

Joe Rogan 1:46:53 This was the argument when Obama was pushing the NDAA, um, in which the... This was the indefinite detention.

Konstantin Kisin 1:47:01 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:47:02 So this, this concept that you didn't have to charge anybody. You didn't have to, the... You just have to have a... You, you don't have to try them within a timely period. Indefinite detention.

Konstantin Kisin 1:47:11 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:47:11 "Well, we'll never use that." Okay, but w- w- well-

Konstantin Kisin 1:47:13 Why are you pushing it then?

Joe Rogan 1:47:14 Right. Well, also-

Konstantin Kisin 1:47:15 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:47:15 ... who comes after you, man?

Konstantin Kisin 1:47:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:47:16 Like, well, how, how many generations are we away from Hitler?

Konstantin Kisin 1:47:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:47:20 You know? Like, who fucking... Who's to say that this new power won't be used by very unscrupulous people that are now... I mean, the Founding Fathers of this country really had a good understanding of how corruption-

Konstantin Kisin 1:47:32 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:47:33 ... and tyranny sets in, and that's why they put all these checks and balances in place.

Konstantin Kisin 1:47:36 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:47:36 And the more they eroded that, whether it's the Patriot Act, the Patriot Act 2, or the NDAA, when you start doing stuff like that, man, you, you're, you're just undermining the very fabric that this country was created with. It's like we, we were created under this idea that we know human nature. We know that you cannot have power. We know that the government has to be working for the people. It can't be we are under the power of these individuals, 'cause those individuals will then act like tyrants.

Konstantin Kisin 1:48:07 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:48:08 Which is what people always do when they have power.

Konstantin Kisin 1:48:11 It's one of the things that makes America really a great place because you, you- we look at the UK now, and, you know, if Francis is right, and I, I've said this, I think the next election is probably gonna be Nigel Farage versus these far leftists. If those far leftists get in power, I mean, they're gonna start regulating podcasts, I guarantee you.

Joe Rogan 1:48:29 100%.

Konstantin Kisin 1:48:29 That's what they're gonna do.

Joe Rogan 1:48:30 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:48:30 They're gonna say, "We have Ofcom for TV. Well, why- we need to have it for other broadcasting." Surely you'd agree with that, right?

Joe Rogan 1:48:37 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:48:38 And then before you know it, like, d- everything we do-

Joe Rogan 1:48:40 Before you know it, you guys are living in Austin.

Konstantin Kisin 1:48:42 Right.

Francis Foster 1:48:42 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:48:43 Right. 'Cause at that point, we would actually leave.

Joe Rogan 1:48:45 Yeah, you would have to.

Konstantin Kisin 1:48:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:46 You'd have to.

Konstantin Kisin 1:48:47 'Cause-

Francis Foster 1:48:47 Because what they would say is, and they would use the word that they always use, which is, you know, they- they're spreading misinformation-

Joe Rogan 1:48:54 Uh-huh

Francis Foster 1:48:54 ... and hate.

Konstantin Kisin 1:48:55 Yeah. When The New York Times spreads information, misinformation, that's wonderful.

Joe Rogan 1:48:59 Right.

Francis Foster 1:49:00 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:49:00 But it's, it's... So yeah, I, I think allowing people maximum freedom within the system you're talking about is, is a really truly precious thing. It's why America, in this respect, is an example to the rest of the world.

Joe Rogan 1:49:13 I, I think if anything that should be done, they should be able to figure out what, which of these accounts are bots-

Konstantin Kisin 1:49:20 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:49:20 ... and eliminate those.

Konstantin Kisin 1:49:21 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:49:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:49:22 I, I do not think that you should be allowed to, uh, b- not just run a bot farm, or I don't think you should be allowed to hire people to tweet. I think that's crazy, and I most certainly don't think you should be able to use AI.

Konstantin Kisin 1:49:35 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:49:35 I mean, that, that seems crazy. It seems crazy to allow that and pretend that's a person.

Francis Foster 1:49:40 But if... Think about it like this, Joe. Like, how basically did social media start? Facebook, Meta, all the rest of it. It started by a nerd-In his bedroom, in his college dorm, who set up a website to rate hot girls on campus. And my point is, like, we s- creating all of this technology, we don't know what's gonna be the second, third, fifth, fifth, sixth order consequences.

Joe Rogan 1:50:04 Right.

Francis Foster 1:50:04 And we're having to figure out as we go along.

Joe Rogan 1:50:06 Mm.

Francis Foster 1:50:06 And now we're creating artificial intelligences so that- intelligences that are way smarter than us, and you're going, at what point is this gonna run away?

Joe Rogan 1:50:14 Right.

Francis Foster 1:50:15 Or has it already run away, and we just don't want to admit it because most of us don't know enough, and the ones in charge are delusional?

Joe Rogan 1:50:22 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:50:23 But you're right, Joe. I t- I think we need a way to know, A, what is human content and what isn't human content.

Joe Rogan 1:50:28 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:50:29 And also, I sometimes look at stuff on social media and I go, "There's no fucking way this take got 50,000 likes on X. No fucking way."

Joe Rogan 1:50:38 Right, right, right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:50:38 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:50:39 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:50:39 Like, and that is, but that is shaping people's perception of reality, and that is informing political debate, and that is then informing how people vote. And where did those 40,000 likes come from?

Joe Rogan 1:50:52 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:50:53 Did they come from within America? Did they come from within Britain? 'Cause what if they didn't, right? So who is then shaping the political direction of our countries?

Joe Rogan 1:51:03 So-

Konstantin Kisin 1:51:03 We, we need to know that.

Joe Rogan 1:51:04 Yeah, we do need to know that.

Konstantin Kisin 1:51:05 We need to know that.

Joe Rogan 1:51:06 'Cause it is effective. E- even if someone has a completely preposterous and radical position, a couple steps down from that, that becomes more palatable, right?

Konstantin Kisin 1:51:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:17 Like, because now it's closer to the... Like, the farther left the left goes-

Konstantin Kisin 1:51:22 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:51:22 ... the, the weirder the center gets. 'Cause the center starts accepting things that were far left positions.

Konstantin Kisin 1:51:28 Mm. And the same on the right.

Joe Rogan 1:51:29 Same on the right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:51:29 Same on the right.

Joe Rogan 1:51:29 Same, exactly, on the right. And you can, you can shift narratives by r- really, really radical ideologies, re- really radical thoughts and radical declarations, and you could change, like, what's acceptable.

Francis Foster 1:51:43 So an example of that is during the Euros, the 2021 final, it was England versus Italy, right? And it was a tight game and it went to penalty shootout, and three Black England footballers missed the penalty-

Joe Rogan 1:51:57 Mm

Francis Foster 1:51:57 ... and we ended up losing the European Cup to the Italians. And afterwards, these three Black footballers got inundated with racism and horrible things. That sparked a conversation in our country about we have a real problem with racism, this is disgraceful that these Black footballers are exposed to this level of racism, it's unacceptable. Of course it is. All those things are true. But it, basically about them being exposed to racism, it's not acceptable. And then it went into a discussion about England being a racist country, white supremacists, and this became widespread. And this w- and the example of what these footballers were exposed to was used as a way to justify this opinion. And you could see a lot of people accept that opinion.

Joe Rogan 1:52:39 Right.

Francis Foster 1:52:40 Until a couple of days later when they investigated where the majority of the tweets came from, and messages, and I think something like 85%, if not 90, came from outside the UK, if not even more than that.

Joe Rogan 1:52:50 Mm.

Francis Foster 1:52:51 So you're going, oh, so this entire conversation that we have had about white supremacy, about, you know, Black people not being accepted in, i- in our country, about the fact they're second-class citizens, and look, this example of them being exposed to this horrendous racism, when the fact is the majority of it came from outside the UK.

Konstantin Kisin 1:53:09 And then you have to ask the question, who benefits?

Joe Rogan 1:53:12 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:53:13 Who benefits from us hating each other, obsessing about our differences, worrying about how we're the most racist places in the world, when this narrative is likely being driven by actually racist countries? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:53:27 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:53:27 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:53:28 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:53:28 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:53:28 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 1:53:28 'Cause that's what's happening.

Joe Rogan 1:53:30 Yes.

Konstantin Kisin 1:53:30 And we are allowing it to happen, and I think we just haven't woken up to the fact that we are living in the age of informational warfare. And we, because of our belief in freedom, have just got lost in this fact that we are under attack.

Joe Rogan 1:53:45 That's a very good point. I have to pee. Um, we'll come back with that.

Konstantin Kisin 1:53:48 Awesome. Let's do that.

Joe Rogan 1:53:49 'Cause, 'cause that was cool.

Konstantin Kisin 1:53:49 I'll go pee as well.

Joe Rogan 1:53:50 Speaking of religion, so, um-

Konstantin Kisin 1:53:52 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:53:52 ... show us this, uh, Sam Tripoli Facebook take. [laughs] He was on, uh, Danny Jones, and this is what he said about Facebook.

Speaker 1:54:02 Hold on. Uh, damn it.

Joe Rogan 1:54:05 Fine.

Speaker 1:54:06 Now there's a little muted here.

Joe Rogan 1:54:07 Yeah.

Speaker 1:54:08 It's a giant lie. It's a propaganda piece. That was a Pentagon program called Life Log. Life Log is a Pentagon program-

Joe Rogan 1:54:16 Uh-huh

Speaker 1:54:17 ... that wants to collect all your data for your whole life. What day did the government stop the Life Log project?

Joe Rogan 1:54:25 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. DARPA shut down the Life Log project February 4th, 2004.

Speaker 1:54:32 What day was Facebook registered as a business?

Joe Rogan 1:54:36 Oh, my God. No way, bro.

Speaker 1:54:39 The exact same day.

Joe Rogan 1:54:40 [laughs]

Speaker 1:54:40 They don't even hide it, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:54:42 It was created by DARPA.

Speaker 1:54:43 Yeah. They hand it to Mark Zuckerberg, and then the, the vassal twins are like-

Joe Rogan 1:54:47 What about the other... Yeah, yeah, yeah

Speaker 1:54:48 ... that's all, and that's why they became the first Bitcoin millionaires, 'cause they played ball.

Joe Rogan 1:54:54 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1:54:55 It's all theater, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:54:57 So what is the purpose of Life Log?

Speaker 1:54:59 To collect all your data for your whole entire life. The wh-

Joe Rogan 1:55:03 Okay. Take this with many grains of salt.

Francis Foster 1:55:07 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:55:07 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:55:08 Sam is one of my best friends.

Francis Foster 1:55:09 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:55:09 I've known him for decades. He's a wonderful person, but he's a kook.

Francis Foster 1:55:13 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:14 But he's right a lot.

Francis Foster 1:55:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:16 I don't know if he's right about this.

Konstantin Kisin 1:55:17 Right.

Speaker 1:55:17 Yeah.

Francis Foster 1:55:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:18 Jamie thinks he's right?

Speaker 1:55:19 It is, it was a, it, it, he, it's not that he's incorrect, I would say that he's-

Joe Rogan 1:55:24 He's making some connections.

Speaker 1:55:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:27 Yeah. Well, he's definitely right about the dates.

Speaker 1:55:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:55:29 And that is a little weird-

Francis Foster 1:55:31 Yes

Joe Rogan 1:55:31 ... that it's ended on the same day where Facebook is beginning. A little weird.

Francis Foster 1:55:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:37 You know? Um-

Konstantin Kisin 1:55:39 What do you think the appeal is of, like-

Speaker 1:55:41 When I went down this rabbit hole, here, uh, it said it was made by the Information Processing Techniques office-

Joe Rogan 1:55:48 [laughs]

Speaker 1:55:49 ... of the CIA, I think, or something. But here's some other fun projects that as, are associated with this, um-

Joe Rogan 1:55:54 Biologically Inspired Cognitive Architectures? Wait, what?

Speaker 1:55:59 Yep. There's just a couple-

Joe Rogan 1:56:00 Biologically inspired cognitive architectures. That sounds like s- artificial intelligence.

Speaker 1:56:05 Yeah. Uh, Forester-

Joe Rogan 1:56:07 Bootstrapping learning. What was the other one, James?

Speaker 1:56:09 This Forester thing.

Joe Rogan 1:56:10 Forester, a pr- a program to develop helicopter-borne radar system that can detect soldiers in vehicles moving underneath foliage cover. Whoa.

Speaker 1:56:20 Deep, Deep Green?

Joe Rogan 1:56:21 US Army Battlefield Decision Making Support System. Yeah, this is all AI.

Speaker 1:56:25 Heterogeneous Urban RSTH.

Joe Rogan 1:56:28 So they were planning on this in the-

Speaker 1:56:30 This was 2004 is when that thing ended, the life log thing. So, uh, I mean, it even goes back to says they were, were working on ARPANET back in the '60s.

Joe Rogan 1:56:39 Whoa.

Speaker 1:56:40 Just the beginning of the internet.

Konstantin Kisin 1:56:41 By the way, Joe, have you had anyone on to talk about this, uh, weapon that the US, um, forces used in Venezuela?

Joe Rogan 1:56:47 No. No, I haven't. Not yet.

Konstantin Kisin 1:56:49 But there was something like-

Joe Rogan 1:56:50 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 1:56:50 ... they used something, right?

Joe Rogan 1:56:51 Yes.

Konstantin Kisin 1:56:52 Something-

Joe Rogan 1:56:53 Supposedly

Konstantin Kisin 1:56:53 ... that makes your brain water temperature rise, and so you get nosebleeds and shit. Is that, is that what it is?

Francis Foster 1:56:59 Well, my cousin told me when I was talking, uh, after the attack, after-

Konstantin Kisin 1:57:03 Your cousin in Venezuela?

Francis Foster 1:57:04 No, my cousin in Venezuela. Yeah, yeah. He was saying that it, it seemed like in a one-mile radius, everybody's windows got blown out.

Konstantin Kisin 1:57:10 Well, that's just blast. That, that's not like a... But what I, what I heard was that they had some kind of weapon that-

Joe Rogan 1:57:16 Some sonic weapon

Konstantin Kisin 1:57:17 ... some- I don't know if it was sonic. Maybe. But something that incapacitates people and makes them very uncomfortable, basically, but without killing them.

Joe Rogan 1:57:26 Was it 60 Minutes?

Speaker 1:57:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57:28 Yeah. So 60 Minutes said that these guys acquired some weapon from a Russian black market.

Konstantin Kisin 1:57:35 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:57:35 And it's a very small, portable weapon that you can carry around with you and does something very similar. What did, what did, what is their claim on this?

Speaker 1:57:44 Oh, well, two... There's two different things going on with the 60 Minutes thing. They had a story a couple months ago where they were tracking a guy, and then they just had an update, I think, over the weekend that added to it.

Joe Rogan 1:57:55 But what is the claim?

Speaker 1:57:56 Oh, I think they found the guy that said he was doing it, I believe.

Joe Rogan 1:58:00 Right.

Speaker 1:58:00 He had a device in his car or something like that.

Joe Rogan 1:58:02 And you could just point it at people, but it was, you could carry it around.

Speaker 1:58:05 Yeah. That, uh, that is where it gets strange. That's, I mean, uh, the 60 Minutes thing from yesterday going around, I didn't watch it, so I don't know what they're talking about.

Konstantin Kisin 1:58:11 Oh, the Havana Syndrome.

Joe Rogan 1:58:12 Yes.

Speaker 1:58:12 Yeah. But it, it has to do with that, and that's what I was trying to... Trump had this discombobulator weapon that he mentioned.

Konstantin Kisin 1:58:16 Right. Right. That's what I'm talking about.

Joe Rogan 1:58:18 Discombobulator. [laughs]

Speaker 1:58:19 But that's, it's the-

Konstantin Kisin 1:58:20 The most Trump name for it, isn't it? [laughs]

Speaker 1:58:21 ... it's kind of the description of what the Havana Syndrome weapon is.

Joe Rogan 1:58:24 Yes.

Konstantin Kisin 1:58:24 The discombobulator.

Joe Rogan 1:58:25 But it seems like whatever its effectiveness is, the Havana Syndrome is very small in comparison to what these things are doing. These things are, like, completely incapacitating people.

Konstantin Kisin 1:58:33 Right.

Francis Foster 1:58:33 You know-

Joe Rogan 1:58:34 Right

Francis Foster 1:58:34 ... I don't think people talk about this enough. You know, when they came in to take Maduro?

Joe Rogan 1:58:38 Mm-hmm.

Francis Foster 1:58:39 You know what they also did? I mean, you probably know this. They fired a rocket into Chávez's mausoleum.

Joe Rogan 1:58:45 They did?

Francis Foster 1:58:46 Yeah. Just to be like, "Go fuck your mom."

Joe Rogan 1:58:49 Wow.

Francis Foster 1:58:49 "I'm gonna blow up your grave." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:58:51 Wow.

Francis Foster 1:58:51 Isn't that the most Trump thing ever?

Joe Rogan 1:58:53 You know how much those things cost?

Francis Foster 1:58:55 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:58:56 Oh, yeah. Millions of dollars.

Joe Rogan 1:58:57 Millions.

Francis Foster 1:58:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:58:57 So millions just to say, "Fuck you"?

Francis Foster 1:58:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:59:00 Just fired a rocket into his grave.

Francis Foster 1:59:02 [laughs] Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 1:59:02 This is the American way, baby. [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:59:06 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:59:06 We're gonna fire some expensive shit-

Joe Rogan 1:59:09 That's crazy

Konstantin Kisin 1:59:09 ... into your grave.

Joe Rogan 1:59:10 That's crazy.

Francis Foster 1:59:10 But under any other president, you would've gone, "That's bullshit."

Joe Rogan 1:59:14 Right.

Francis Foster 1:59:14 But under Trump, you're like, "Yeah, of course."

Joe Rogan 1:59:16 You think it was his idea?

Francis Foster 1:59:17 Yes. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:59:19 Yeah. [laughs]

Francis Foster 1:59:21 Yeah. I've got a thought. [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 1:59:24 [laughs] That sounds exactly like a Trump idea.

Francis Foster 1:59:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:59:27 Um, so this weapon that, uh-

Speaker 1:59:30 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:59:30 What is the details?

Speaker 1:59:31 I don't know. We can just watch this real quick, I guess.

Joe Rogan 1:59:32 Yeah, let's see what he says here. Well, we could just read... Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 1:59:35 I couldn't read it.

Joe Rogan 1:59:35 Go ahead. Okay, let's play it.

Speaker 1:59:36 No problem.

Joe Rogan 1:59:36 Let's play it. Here it goes.

Speaker 1:59:39 Tales of a classified microwave weapon-

Konstantin Kisin 1:59:42 Right

Speaker 1:59:43 ... that may explain mysterious brain injuries suffered by US officials. We've been investigating these injuries for nine years, and now our sources tell us this microwave weapon is portable, concealable, and uses relatively little power. Hundreds of possible attacks have been reported, including, we've learned, at CIA headquarters in Virginia and at least two incidents on the grounds of the White House. For years, the government doubted the stories of the injured, but now the victims, including former CIA officer Mark Polymorpoholos, hope that word of a newly discovered weapon will finally vindicate them.

Speaker 2:00:30 There's a part of this, Scott, that has to do with moral injury, and that's the idea of, of betrayal. You know, I worked for 26 years for the CIA. I think I was involved in every covert action program in the Middle East. I did some very interesting things for the US government, always with the idea that they would have my back if I got jammed up. I just needed to get medical care when I came back, and they wouldn't even do that. So this moral injury, this sense of betrayal is so acute with me. Um, that's something that I can never forgive them for.

Speaker 2:00:58 Mark Polymorpoholos rose to an executive level at the CIA-

Konstantin Kisin 2:01:02 Mm

Speaker 2:01:02 ... about the equivalent of a three-star general. He was awarded a top decoration for service. 60 Minutes has learned to take-

Speaker 2:01:11 Yeah, that just repeated it.

Konstantin Kisin 2:01:12 Okay. Not much about the weapon there, unfortunately.

Francis Foster 2:01:15 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 2:01:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:15 Huh. Huh.

Francis Foster 2:01:18 But it-

Joe Rogan 2:01:19 Yeah

Francis Foster 2:01:19 ... it's, it's interesting that the way that they did that, they did that operation. Because when I was talking to my cousins and my friends about what happened, no one in Venezuela had a clue, and they were... My friend said that he was woken up around 2:00 in the morning by a plane going overhead, and there's a no-fly zone around, over Caracas at that time especially, and he was like, "What is this?" And he said you heard this almighty boom, and everybody was just... Nobody knew what was happening. They don't have X in Venezuela for obvious reasons, so everybody was in the dark, and it was only via Instagram and Facebook that they started to understand what had just gone on. But it was complete disbelief that the Americans had done that.

Joe Rogan 2:02:05 If they, uh, they don't have, uh, X, do they have Threads?

Francis Foster 2:02:09 Uh, they-

Joe Rogan 2:02:09 Which is like X zero.

Francis Foster 2:02:10 I, I imagine-

Joe Rogan 2:02:12 [laughs]

Francis Foster 2:02:12 [laughs] Yeah. X zero, yeah. I imagine they must do, but he said the way that everybody was communicating was via Instagram.

Joe Rogan 2:02:18 Interesting.

Konstantin Kisin 2:02:19 What are people saying now in Venezuela?

Francis Foster 2:02:21 So, and now when I talk to my friends, he said that things is, are getting better. He said things are getting better. He said that crime was down 75%. I mean, I don't know how true this is. He said things are slowly starting to get liberalized. He also... The... I was talking to a Colombian friend of mine who was saying that people, Venezuelans in Colombia are now starting to go back because whilst the regime is still obviously not perfect, what you essentially have is a puppet regime, and they know that the moment they step out of line, they know the moment they, to use Trump's parlance, fuck about, something will happen. They're kept in, they c- they're, they're kept, they're kept in the, on a straight line.

Konstantin Kisin 2:03:01 They have to behave.

Francis Foster 2:03:01 Yeah. They, they have to behave. They can't do what Maduro did, and what's interesting about when Maduro was captured is nobody really mentioned that much about his wife. But a lot of people say that his wife was the brains behind the operation because Maduro, there's clips of him that went viral on TikTok and Instagram and on Twitter as well, where he was doing speeches, and he had to do basic mental arithmetic, and he couldn't do it. This guy was a bus driver. He was picked by Chávez when Chávez was on his deathbed in 2013, dying from stomach cancer, and he appointed Maduro. Everybody was shocked because they were saying, well, Maduro wasn't the most capable. He wasn't the most intelligent. But what Maduro was is he was the most loyal out of all Chávez's underlings.

Joe Rogan 2:03:48 Mm.

Francis Foster 2:03:48 So he was picked not for his brilliance, not for his sharpness, but because he was a company man, and actually, the, the person who the Venezuelans hated the most was his wife because she was the brains behind the operation. She was the one in charge of the kidnappings, the tortures, the murders. So when she was kidnapped, people were happier that she was on the helicopter than Maduro himself.

Joe Rogan 2:04:12 Really?

Francis Foster 2:04:13 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 2:04:13 Lady Macbeth.

Francis Foster 2:04:15 [sighs] She was way more cruel than Maduro.

Joe Rogan 2:04:19 Wow.

Konstantin Kisin 2:04:20 Mm.

Francis Foster 2:04:22 Way more cruel.

Konstantin Kisin 2:04:23 It's interesting you say things are getting better now 'cause, like, it's short term, right? We don't know-

Joe Rogan 2:04:28 Right.

Francis Foster 2:04:28 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 2:04:29 You know, some, some... This has happened a lot of times in Latin America, right? Like, people get overthrown, things are getting better, and then some shit happens.

Joe Rogan 2:04:37 Yeah, not the most stable place.

Francis Foster 2:04:39 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:04:40 [laughs]

Francis Foster 2:04:40 Not the most stable people, Joe, I'm gonna be honest with you.

Konstantin Kisin 2:04:43 [laughs]

Francis Foster 2:04:43 They're my people. It's either, you know, uh, it's either fachismo or viva la revolución.

Konstantin Kisin 2:04:49 Yeah.

Francis Foster 2:04:49 And you're like, "Guys, can we have a little middle?" And they're like, "No, viva la revolución."

Konstantin Kisin 2:04:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:53 Ah.

Francis Foster 2:04:53 You know, they're, they're, you know, they're excitable people.

Konstantin Kisin 2:04:56 And you also wonder how much the fact that Venezuela in particular is so resource rich, a lot of, well, like, a lot of... Francis always says to me, like, "You know, it could be a really great country, really wealthy." And I go, "I don't know that having those resources makes a country better," 'cause what you get is a corrupt elite who are fighting for control of these resources that are so easy to get. Like in 1990s Russia when the Soviet Union collapsed, the people who took over all the resource count, companies, the oil companies, the gas companies, whether... Like, Russia's basically, all it is is a, is a, in terms of its economy, is digging shit out of the ground and selling it. That's what it is. There's not-

Francis Foster 2:05:30 And the poetry.

Konstantin Kisin 2:05:31 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:05:32 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 2:05:32 Yeah, not a lot of money to be made in poetry, right? But the people who took over those companies, they weren't people who knew anything about the oil business. They weren't people who knew anything about the gas business 'cause all you really had to do is take over, and then you just let Western companies come in and do the drilling and the, and the oil field services and all of it for you. So these countries which are so resource rich, it actually makes them more corrupt and more unstable.

Joe Rogan 2:05:58 Mm.

Konstantin Kisin 2:05:58 The w- the, the resource wealth they have doesn't actually make them better for the people because the corrupt elites fight over those resources, and that's why you get the bullshit that you get.

Francis Foster 2:06:08 And the d- it's true. So Venezuela, before Chávez came to power, was 98% dependent on oil. The economy. The entire economy was 98% dependent on oil. The slight difference with Venezuela is when we were taken over by Chávez, he then installed his cronies in charge of PDVSA, which is the, the Venezuelan oil company, and he cut out all the people who were competent, all the people who were, who would criticize him ideologically. And as a result, what you had is fundamentally incompetent people at the top, which meant that it became degraded. It was no longer able to pump the oil. It wasn't reliable. So that's a large part of the reason why the economy collapsed, is it was entirely dependent on oil. They appointed their cronies, who couldn't actually do the job. The oil industry failed, and we descended into poverty and chaos.

Joe Rogan 2:07:01 Mm.

Konstantin Kisin 2:07:01 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:07:03 How much do you know about Brazil?

Konstantin Kisin 2:07:04 Not a lot. Why?

Joe Rogan 2:07:06 Well, I, I've always... That situation's very confusing, right? Lula goes to jail. Now he's out.

Konstantin Kisin 2:07:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:14 Now he's running the country, and they jailed Jair Bolsonaro, right?

Francis Foster 2:07:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:07:19 Like, there seems... And then they tried to ban X.

Konstantin Kisin 2:07:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:22 Like, they, then they did for a while, right?

Konstantin Kisin 2:07:24 I think so.

Joe Rogan 2:07:25 And they had to make probably some concessions.

Konstantin Kisin 2:07:29 I don't know a lot about it, truthfully, Joe.

Francis Foster 2:07:31 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:32 All right.

Francis Foster 2:07:32 I'd-

Konstantin Kisin 2:07:32 Yeah. We're gonna do that thing that no one does on the internet, is admit we don't know something.

Joe Rogan 2:07:36 As long as we don't have hot takes.

Francis Foster 2:07:37 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:07:38 What is this, Jimmy?

Speaker 2:07:39 This, the, these are kind of, just kind of crazy descriptions of this weapon. This is from this, a, a longer version of the CBS News 60 Minutes article where they're talking to that guy we just saw.

Konstantin Kisin 2:07:48 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:07:49 Um, I would say start right around here, and then I'll skip to another paragraph.

Joe Rogan 2:07:52 Okay, so, "Three independent sources from different agencies tell us undercover Homeland Security agents purchased a miniaturized microwave weapon from a complex Russian c- criminal network. It's classified. We didn't see it, but it has been described to us. We are told it doesn't look anything like a gun. It's designed to be concealed and small enough to be carried by a person. It is silent and doesn't create heat like a microwave oven. Our sources say the device is programmable for different scenarios and can be operated by remote control. The range of the beam is several hundred feet. It can penetrate windows and drywall. The vital components were made in Russia. Our sources say the key is not the hardware but the software. The programming shapes a unique electromagnetic wave that rises and falls abruptly and pulses rapidly."

Speaker 2:08:36 So then it turns out they have tested this apparently in US military labs. Start here.

Joe Rogan 2:08:42 "Our confidential sources tell us still-classified weapon has been tested in a US military lab for more than a year. Tests on rats and sheep... show injuries consistent with those seen in humans. Also, as a separate part of the investigation, security camera videos have been collected that show Americans being hit. The videos are classified, but they were described to us. In one, a camera in a restaurant in Istanbul captured two FBI agents on vacation sitting at a table with their families. A man with a backpack walks in, and suddenly everyone at the table grabs their head as if in pain. Our sources say that another video comes from a stairwell in the US Embassy in Vienna. The stairs lead to a secure facility. In the video, two people on the stairs suddenly collapse. Those videos and the weapon were among the reasons the Biden administration summoned about half a dozen victims to the White House with about two months left in the president's term.

Speaker 2:09:37 And then that guy was also one of the people in there. I just, the ads are kind of fucking up this, um-

Joe Rogan 2:09:42 Mm-hmm

Speaker 2:09:43 ... website. But yeah, he just sort of says someone admitted to him that they treated him poorly.

Joe Rogan 2:09:48 Yeah.

Speaker 2:09:48 And that's the, the biggest cover-up I've seen in my adult life, a CIA source said.

Joe Rogan 2:09:52 Interesting.

Francis Foster 2:09:53 I, I, I don't get the, like the s- the border f- why... If Russia has this weapon, why didn't they use it to take out Zelenskyy?

Joe Rogan 2:10:00 Well, it seems like it's only for 100, couple hundred feet. That's what they were just saying, like it has to be close.

Francis Foster 2:10:05 Mm-hmm. Right.

Joe Rogan 2:10:05 So what, what was the one they used in Venezuela then? 'Cause-

Speaker 2:10:08 Yeah, they started off saying it was in a truck, it was truck-sized, but then that's where it goes... I started you just past that, where they said it's actually way smaller.

Joe Rogan 2:10:15 Interesting.

Speaker 2:10:16 And, um-

Joe Rogan 2:10:16 So this is the one that's, that you could carry around.

Speaker 2:10:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:10:18 But w- do we know that that's the same one they used in Venezuela? Or do they use something that's completely different technology?

Francis Foster 2:10:24 Yeah. We... The reality is we just don't know.

Joe Rogan 2:10:26 Yeah.

Francis Foster 2:10:27 I mean, the int- the int- the interesting thing as well with Venezuela is, like, Maduro is so retarded.

Joe Rogan 2:10:33 Is he?

Francis Foster 2:10:33 He's such a-

Speaker 2:10:34 There's a hot take [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:10:36 [laughs]

Francis Foster 2:10:38 So-

Joe Rogan 2:10:38 How retarded is he?

Speaker 2:10:40 [laughs]

Francis Foster 2:10:41 He literally-

Joe Rogan 2:10:41 He's so re- This is the joke.

Francis Foster 2:10:43 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:10:43 Set up, punchline

Francis Foster 2:10:43 Yeah. He... but he literally said to Trump, he said to America, "I'm not gonna do what you say. Go fuck yourself. Come and get me."

Joe Rogan 2:10:51 Yeah, he did that.

Francis Foster 2:10:51 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:10:52 That, uh, that was cocaine.

Francis Foster 2:10:53 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:10:54 Down, down, down, down.

Speaker 2:10:56 [laughs]

Francis Foster 2:10:57 And it's not just that. He... so for instance, uh, the country next to Venezuela is called Guyana, and in Guyana they recently discovered oil, uh, really huge, large deposits of oil. And there's been... Guyana is a Brit- a former British colony, and Venezuela and Guyana have always been disputes about territory, about one particular part of, I think it's called Essequibo, uh, is, uh, which is basically rainforest. And they always argue about it, but no one cared until they discovered oil there, at which point Maduro went, "You know what? You know how we've been talking about this?" Turns out it is Venezuelan. They did a referendum in Venezuela where you basically asked-

Joe Rogan 2:11:40 [laughs]

Francis Foster 2:11:40 ... a people who are entirely subjugated, starving, living in misery and poverty, whether they wanted to start a war with Guyana. Do you know how many Ven- Venezuelans voted for it? 92%, Joe. 92% of Venezuelans wanted to go to war despite the fact they didn't have the strength to even pick up a gun, 'cause they're so malnourished. And then he started teaching in schools, redrawing the map of Venezuela, so all the school kids now think that Venezuela incorporates this territory. Like, he was antagonizing the Americans and their allies consistently. And unlike Iran, he doesn't have the infrastructure. He doesn't have that amount of the military-

Joe Rogan 2:12:24 Mm

Francis Foster 2:12:24 ... the power, the organization. He made himself so vulnerable.

Joe Rogan 2:12:29 Mm.

Francis Foster 2:12:29 So vulnerable.

Speaker 2:12:30 Who, who looks at Trump and goes, "Yeah, let's fuck with that guy"?

Francis Foster 2:12:33 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:12:33 Right. He's 80. He, he doesn't have much to lose.

Speaker 2:12:36 Right. It's his last term.

Joe Rogan 2:12:38 That's the scary thing about old leaders. It's like, death is imminent.

Speaker 2:12:42 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:12:43 It's within a decade, if you're lucky. That's spooky. That's spooky. Like, you know, you're making decisions for babies and children and the future of the world, and you've only got 10, maybe 10 years left on, on Earth, if everything goes great.

Francis Foster 2:13:00 And also, you start to degrade.

Joe Rogan 2:13:02 Oh, yeah.

Francis Foster 2:13:02 Your cognitive functions. It doesn't... I'm not saying that he's got dementia or anything like that, but you're just not as sharp when you're that age as you are when you're younger.

Speaker 2:13:10 He's ki- I mean, he's kind of weird. Like, when I think about how much Barack Obama aged-

Joe Rogan 2:13:15 Yeah

Speaker 2:13:16 ... how much Tony Blair aged-

Joe Rogan 2:13:18 Yeah

Speaker 2:13:18 ... Trump has not aged like that.

Joe Rogan 2:13:21 Yeah, and he has a terrible diet. I mean, especially-

Speaker 2:13:24 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:13:24 ... when he's on the road. He just eats junk food, 'cause he says it's, uh... Like, JFK, or RFK Jr., rather, told me he's, uh, he eats junk food because he knows that when he eats fast food, that it's not gonna be poison. Like, he knows he can eat it and not worry about getting food poisoning.

Speaker 2:13:40 What?

Francis Foster 2:13:41 What?

Joe Rogan 2:13:41 What? Exactly.

Speaker 2:13:42 Does that make any fucking sense?

Joe Rogan 2:13:43 Well, it does, because it's filled with preservatives, so you're not gonna get food poisoning from a Big Mac. When was the last time you s- heard about anybody getting food poisoning from a Big Mac?

Speaker 2:13:51 Mm.

Joe Rogan 2:13:52 Right? Fucking never happens, 'cause nothing can grow on those things.

Speaker 2:13:57 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:13:57 Yeah, really. Like, for real.

Speaker 2:13:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:13:59 Like, you've seen them. They take, like, a hamburger-

Speaker 2:14:00 They live for a year. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:01 Yeah, yeah. Decades. Decades. Decades, they don't rot.

Speaker 2:14:05 Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:14:05 There's so much preservatives in the bread and the, and whatever the meat is fucking made with.

Speaker 2:14:09 And... But, but this is my point, is, like, Trump hasn't aged-

Joe Rogan 2:14:12 Right

Speaker 2:14:12 ... like much younger men.

Joe Rogan 2:14:14 Which is even crazier-

Speaker 2:14:15 I just-

Joe Rogan 2:14:15 ... because you consider he doesn't exercise.

Speaker 2:14:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:14:18 Yeah.

Speaker 2:14:18 And, and he's been under colossal... Yeah, I mean, I don't know, but I imagine he's been under a bit of pressure and stress.

Joe Rogan 2:14:23 Well, assassination attempts.

Speaker 2:14:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:25 And just all that. Almost going to jail.

Speaker 2:14:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:28 Right?

Speaker 2:14:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:28 Like, 34 felonies sort of trumped up-

Speaker 2:14:31 Right

Joe Rogan 2:14:31 ... you know, pardon the pun-

Speaker 2:14:32 Right

Joe Rogan 2:14:32 ... against him.

Speaker 2:14:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:33 Yeah, it was a l- there was a lot.

Speaker 2:14:34 He's a Russian agent and all this-

Joe Rogan 2:14:36 Yeah, yeah

Speaker 2:14:36 ... all this bull-

Joe Rogan 2:14:36 All the other shit

Speaker 2:14:36 ... all this bullshit.

Joe Rogan 2:14:37 Yeah.

Speaker 2:14:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:38 Yeah.

Speaker 2:14:38 And he's just, like... I, like, it's kind of, like... It's kind of impressive in a way.

Joe Rogan 2:14:42 Oh, that part's very impressive.

Speaker 2:14:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:44 Yeah. And he's funny. Like, he's always joking around about that stuff.

Speaker 2:14:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:48 And so, like, he's very light-hearted about it all.

Speaker 2:14:50 Yeah, he is.

Joe Rogan 2:14:51 Yeah.

Speaker 2:14:51 Like, when he was talking about the Iranian navy, did you see that?

Joe Rogan 2:14:54 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:14:54 He was like, "They've lost 14 ships. We sunk a submarine. Da-da-this. But apart from that, they're doing really well." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:15:01 [laughs]

Speaker 2:15:02 He's just, he's, he's very relaxed for a man in that... Like, it's, it's hard to ima- I, I cannot imagine being in charge of anything-

Konstantin Kisin 2:15:10 Like a, a, a thousandth of that size

Joe Rogan 2:15:13 Right. Just imagine the stress that you guys have running Triggernometry.

Konstantin Kisin 2:15:16 Right.

Francis Foster 2:15:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:15:16 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 2:15:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:15:17 It's stressful, I'm sure.

Francis Foster 2:15:18 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 2:15:18 Francis is aged like Barack Obama [laughs]

Francis Foster 2:15:20 [laughs] Yeah. I used to have black hair.

Konstantin Kisin 2:15:22 Yeah [laughs]

Francis Foster 2:15:24 Now I just look like an aging lesbian, Joe.

Joe Rogan 2:15:26 It is stressful, right?

Konstantin Kisin 2:15:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:15:28 And that is the highest stress that I can ever imagine. I, I can't imagine a, a level higher.

Konstantin Kisin 2:15:35 Right.

Francis Foster 2:15:35 Do you know, I always remember, uh, after the war in Iraq, when Blair was still in power, but it was towards the end, I was watching the news with my dad, and this woman in her 50s came along and she put a wreath at this, at the door of 10 Downing Street, and that was a mother whose son had died in Iraq, and placed a wreath at 10 Downing Street of all the soldiers that died. I'm like, even if the war was justified, even if it was the right thing to do, which I don't think it was, I would still find it impossible to sleep.

Joe Rogan 2:16:14 Right.

Francis Foster 2:16:14 Now, just imagine it was the colossal fuck up that that war was-

Joe Rogan 2:16:18 Right.

Konstantin Kisin 2:16:18 Mm

Francis Foster 2:16:18 ... and those people died-

Joe Rogan 2:16:20 Yeah

Francis Foster 2:16:20 ... as a result of your decision. But how do you... Unless you're a sociopath, I, I, I think that's an, an im- you can't... Can you live with that?

Joe Rogan 2:16:28 Right.

Francis Foster 2:16:30 I, I don't think you... I, I think it's impossible to live with.

Konstantin Kisin 2:16:33 But clearly not, though. I mean, we've got, uh, people who were heavily responsible for promoting that war in the UK now, like Alastair Campbell, who was the spin doctor that helped Blair lie the country into the war in Iraq. He now has a really big podcast and, like, all the young people are, "Oh, really? Oh, tell me more."

Francis Foster 2:16:52 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:16:52 No way.

Konstantin Kisin 2:16:53 Yeah.

Francis Foster 2:16:53 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 2:16:54 Yeah.

Francis Foster 2:16:54 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 2:16:55 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:56 He's the Rush Limbaugh of the UK?

Konstantin Kisin 2:16:58 Uh, how, how do you mean? Sorry, I don't know enough about Rush Limbaugh.

Joe Rogan 2:17:00 You don't know who Rush Limbaugh is?

Konstantin Kisin 2:17:01 I, I've heard of the name, but I, I can't... I don't get the reference in the way that you mean it.

Joe Rogan 2:17:04 He was the big right-wing propagandist, uh, on radio. Excellence in broadcasting. Oh, by the way, have you seen the, um, the memes that think that Rush Limbaugh is actually Jim Morrison?

Francis Foster 2:17:19 [laughs]

Konstantin Kisin 2:17:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:17:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you look at his facial features in comparison to Jim Morrison's facial features, they're almost identical.

Konstantin Kisin 2:17:25 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:17:25 It's kind of nuts.

Konstantin Kisin 2:17:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:17:26 They do, like, a scan where they, like, like, superimpose.

Francis Foster 2:17:29 Is it-

Konstantin Kisin 2:17:30 So Rush Limbaugh is a media guy.

Joe Rogan 2:17:31 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 2:17:31 Alastair Campbell, he was working for Tony Blair-

Joe Rogan 2:17:34 Right. But now he has a podcast

Konstantin Kisin 2:17:35 ... to shape the media n-

Francis Foster 2:17:36 Yeah

Konstantin Kisin 2:17:36 ... now he has a podcast.

Francis Foster 2:17:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:17:37 Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin 2:17:37 And all the young people are, "Oh, really?"

Joe Rogan 2:17:39 Well, there was a lot of, like, young men in particular that were, like, really into Rush Limbaugh and-

Konstantin Kisin 2:17:42 Right

Joe Rogan 2:17:42 ... like, that, like, a lot of people were-

Francis Foster 2:17:44 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:17:44 ... crediting him with turning young people towards a, a right-wing direction. This was during the Obama administration. Um, like, look at this.

Francis Foster 2:17:54 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:17:56 Watch. Watch when they go over. Pretty close.

Francis Foster 2:18:00 It's like Alex Jones and Bill Hicks. Have you seen that?

Joe Rogan 2:18:02 That one's ridiculous.

Konstantin Kisin 2:18:03 [laughs]

Francis Foster 2:18:04 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:18:04 I met both of them. They don't look anything like each other.

Konstantin Kisin 2:18:07 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:18:08 Look at this. Look at that. That is kinda crazy.

Francis Foster 2:18:10 Wow.

Konstantin Kisin 2:18:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:18:11 It's pretty close.

Francis Foster 2:18:14 Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:18:15 [laughs]

Francis Foster 2:18:16 But you know-

Joe Rogan 2:18:17 Well, you know the, there's the, the other crazy conspiracy theory involving the countercultural move- cu- counterculture movement of the 1960s with the CIA.

Konstantin Kisin 2:18:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:18:27 There's a, there's a book on it, uh, Strange Times in Laurel Canyon. The book's nuts. Like, you realize, like, how many of these very popular counterculture figures had families that were in the military.