Joe Rogan Experience #2468 - Luke Grimes

Joe Rogan 0:00 [upbeat music]

Joe Rogan 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

Speaker 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music]

Luke Grimes 0:12 This is surreal being here, dude.

Joe Rogan 0:14 Is it?

Luke Grimes 0:14 Yeah, I've been listening to the show for years.

Joe Rogan 0:17 [laughs] Well, I've been watching your show for years.

Luke Grimes 0:18 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 0:18 Are we rolling, Jamie? All right, beautiful. I love your fucking show. It's great.

Luke Grimes 0:22 Ah, thanks, man.

Joe Rogan 0:23 It's really awesome, man. Espe- well, I haven't watched Marshals yet. Is it out now?

Luke Grimes 0:27 It is.

Joe Rogan 0:27 When did it come out?

Luke Grimes 0:28 Um, M- March 1st.

Joe Rogan 0:30 Oh, okay.

Luke Grimes 0:30 So they just had the second episode air.

Joe Rogan 0:32 Damn, I like to binge, man.

Luke Grimes 0:34 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:34 I like to wait until-

Luke Grimes 0:35 Wait a little bit then

Joe Rogan 0:35 ... stay offline. I like to sit down and binge 'em.

Luke Grimes 0:38 For sure.

Joe Rogan 0:39 Yeah, but Yellowstone's fucking awesome. It's such a great show. Did you have any idea it was gonna be what it is?

Luke Grimes 0:45 Uh, not, no. I don't think anybody did. I thought it would find an audience, for sure. I mean, Taylor was really, you know, hot at the time. He'd, he'd, he'd been nominated for Oscars and I was kinda, like, surprised he was even writing a television show. He was just, like, so hot in the, the film business.

Joe Rogan 1:01 How the fuck does that guy even sleep?

Luke Grimes 1:04 I don't know, man.

Joe Rogan 1:05 Does... Where does he have the time? Every time I look in the news or I t- there's a new show that he's doing, a new thing he's doing. It's like, what, how are you doing all this?

Luke Grimes 1:13 It's impressive, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:15 It's insane.

Luke Grimes 1:15 I feel like, uh, there's a lot of people I've worked with where they do things im- that are impressive, but his is impossible.

Joe Rogan 1:21 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:21 You know, like, someone'll be like, "Could you direct a movie as good as Unforgiven?" I'm like-

Joe Rogan 1:25 Right

Luke Grimes 1:25 ... maybe. Maybe if I tried real hard. But, like, could you write 10 television shows single-handedly? N- no. No way. Not possible.

Joe Rogan 1:33 He directed Unforgiven?

Luke Grimes 1:35 No, I'm just saying, like, people-

Joe Rogan 1:36 No

Luke Grimes 1:36 ... that I look up to, that I'm impressed by.

Joe Rogan 1:38 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:38 It's like, uh, his is a different level.

Joe Rogan 1:40 Right. Right, right, right.

Luke Grimes 1:40 His is, like, it's, like, impossible.

Joe Rogan 1:42 Who did direct Unforgiven?

Luke Grimes 1:44 Clint Eastwood.

Joe Rogan 1:45 That's the fucking greatest Western movie of all time.

Luke Grimes 1:47 It is.

Joe Rogan 1:47 It's the best.

Luke Grimes 1:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48 It's like, y- you know what it, what it was like to me? It was like he was making up for all the silly Westerns, and was like, "Let me show you what it was probably really like."

Luke Grimes 1:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:00 What it was really like when a man was about to get shot. What it was really like when a dude was a stone cold killer.

Luke Grimes 2:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:06 What, what was it really, like, the hardships of living back then.

Luke Grimes 2:09 Yeah, and it's interesting too, because he starts out kind of a loser.

Joe Rogan 2:13 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:13 Those first, you know, like, the first three quarters of the movie, he's this sort of timid guy who's lost his power, you know? And then he takes that one s- sip of whiskey-

Joe Rogan 2:23 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 2:23 ... and it's all over for everybody else. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:25 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 2:26 It's a crazy premise.

Joe Rogan 2:27 It's such a good movie.

Luke Grimes 2:28 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:28 It's such a good fucking movie, man. But yeah, Taylor is a, he's a real freak, and, uh, there's not a lot of humans like him. And it's, his background story is so interesting. You know, like, he was just kinda scrambling around till he was almost, like, 40.

Luke Grimes 2:42 Yeah. It's like a real life Rocky-

Joe Rogan 2:44 Yeah

Luke Grimes 2:45 ... story or something. Like, rags to riches, the whole, the whole thing.

Joe Rogan 2:48 I know, man. It's just, I just do- I guess that's why he has so much ambition, 'cause he knows what it's like to be poor.

Luke Grimes 2:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:54 You know? He knows what it's like to, like, barely make it.

Luke Grimes 2:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:57 And then all of a sudden he's got a kid on the way, and he's like, "Oh, shit, I gotta buckle down-

Luke Grimes 3:02 Yeah

Joe Rogan 3:03 ... and really get moving." And he kept his foot on the gas.

Luke Grimes 3:06 Absolutely. Do you guys keep in touch?

Joe Rogan 3:08 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 3:09 As buddies?

Joe Rogan 3:09 Yeah, yeah, all the time.

Luke Grimes 3:10 I love Taylor, man.

Joe Rogan 3:11 I love him. He's an awesome dude. I just worry about him. I'm like, "You know, you do so much."

Luke Grimes 3:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:16 Like, "Don't have a fucking heart attack, man. Don't go crazy."

Luke Grimes 3:18 You know what's weird is he does, he does ha- like, have a good time too. It's not like he doesn't hang out with his family or friends or, you know. That's the, the craziest thing to me, is, like, the guy has a really fun life and is able to do all that. I guess, like, the moral of the story is don't play golf, you know? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 3:36 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 3:36 Then I'll take up all your time.

Joe Rogan 3:37 No shit, man.

Luke Grimes 3:38 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 3:39 Tell that to Jamie. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 3:40 If I can get out once a week, it's great.

Joe Rogan 3:42 Yeah, he's-

Luke Grimes 3:43 It's hard

Joe Rogan 3:43 ... he's an addict. Jamie's an addict. Well, he's got a simulator back there. He's always whacking golf balls.

Luke Grimes 3:48 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 3:48 Yeah, all my friends are trying to get me to play. I'm like, "I'm not doing it, man. That's a six-hour commitment, fucking around."

Luke Grimes 3:53 No, man. The, the, the amount of time it takes to get good enough that it's not the worst thing ever-

Joe Rogan 3:58 Right

Luke Grimes 3:58 ... is too much time.

Joe Rogan 3:59 Right. And my problem is I'm, I'm an addict. Like, when I start doing things, I just start, like, "Okay, I need to play in the PGA." [laughs]

Luke Grimes 4:08 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 4:09 I start, I start going crazy. I'll start getting lessons, and fuck that.

Luke Grimes 4:12 Yeah, don't do it. We need your show, man.

Joe Rogan 4:14 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 4:14 We need you.

Joe Rogan 4:15 It's, I've... Well, I'm never doing it.

Luke Grimes 4:17 We can do both.

Joe Rogan 4:18 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Luke Grimes 4:19 We can try it. We can try it.

Joe Rogan 4:21 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 4:21 Try it out.

Joe Rogan 4:22 No, I know. All my friends who play fucking love it. Ron White and Tony Hinchcliffe, they go out every day. It's like, it's too much, man. I can't do it.

Luke Grimes 4:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:32 Yeah, it's, y- you can't play golf and do what Taylor's doing. That's for damn sure.

Luke Grimes 4:35 No way. Nope.

Joe Rogan 4:37 But how is every- how the fuck is Trump doing it? Like, he's in the middle of everything. He's always playing golf.

Luke Grimes 4:42 But that's sort of the criticism, right? Is that, like, he, he's-

Joe Rogan 4:44 Right

Luke Grimes 4:44 ... playing too much golf and not running the country enough.

Joe Rogan 4:46 But don't they say that about every president?

Luke Grimes 4:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:49 Like, I think it's almost, like, a prerequisite to be president, you have to play golf.

Luke Grimes 4:53 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:53 You know? Don't they all do it?

Luke Grimes 4:54 I guess so.

Joe Rogan 4:55 It's like one of those weird businessmen things. Like, they make deals out there. They have a couple of cocktails. They talk a little shit.

Luke Grimes 5:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 5:02 Do a bump. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 5:03 Not my thing.

Joe Rogan 5:04 Make some deals. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 5:05 I, I just don't... I don't know. Something about being on, like, a manicured lawn-

Joe Rogan 5:08 Yeah

Luke Grimes 5:08 ... that, like, I don't, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 5:09 I'd rather be-

Luke Grimes 5:10 I'd rather be out in the middle of nowhere

Joe Rogan 5:11 ... I'm sure I'd love it. I'm sure, which is why I don't do it. But I play pool, and I'm addicted to pool. Like, I play pool all the time. It's a, it's a real problem. When I lived in New York, I was playing, like, eight hours a day.

Luke Grimes 5:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:24 I was playing in tournaments. I was traveling around. It was like, I can't, I can't get another thing like that in my life.

Luke Grimes 5:31 Are you done playing pool in your life?

Joe Rogan 5:32 No, I play all the time.

Luke Grimes 5:33 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 5:33 Yeah. But you could play pool for, like, a couple hours and stop.

Luke Grimes 5:36 Maybe I'll try that.

Joe Rogan 5:38 Pool's fun.

Luke Grimes 5:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:39 Yeah. Like, real pool, like, tournament pool.

Luke Grimes 5:41 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 5:42 You know, like, competitive, like, real p- tournament pool, it's legit. But it's like, it's another thing that's, it'll get in your blood, and then you'll be thinking about it all the time and watching videos and taking lessons and-

Luke Grimes 5:55 I'm ready for something, though.

Joe Rogan 5:56 Yeah?

Luke Grimes 5:56 Yeah. Not golf. Pool sounds like-

Joe Rogan 5:59 Well, you have-

Luke Grimes 6:00 ... up my alley

Joe Rogan 6:00 ... you have music and you have acting. Like, you said, that's gotta be kinda hard to manage.

Luke Grimes 6:06 Yeah, it's proving pretty difficult, and having an 18-month-old-

Joe Rogan 6:09 Oh, that too

Luke Grimes 6:09 ... in the mix. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:10 So no sleep?

Luke Grimes 6:11 Uh, yeah, we're, we're getting there. I, I... You know, the, the music thing is sort of... It's kinda nice 'cause there's not a lot of pressure on it. You know, for me, I'm, I, I have a day job, you know.

Joe Rogan 6:22 Right.

Luke Grimes 6:22 I have this thing that supports my family, and the music I can do to, like, my passion level, uh, you know, and I d- a- and I wouldn't do it to the point where I'm, like, away from my family too much, you know. So I can... I like making the music. Touring is kinda hard, and it's, and it's also new for me, so learning how to do that at 40 was, uh, kind of interesting. You know, I feel like in my 20s that would've been the most fun ever.

Joe Rogan 6:47 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 6:47 Sleeping on a bus with 12 dudes and just going from city to city and, you know, drinking backstage and playing country music. That would've been a blast, but I'm, you know, I'm too old for... to do that the right way. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 6:59 Yeah. When you tour, do you go out, or do you do, like, a weekend and then come back? Or do you just-

Luke Grimes 7:05 When you're on a full-blown tour, the, the, the way that it financially works the best is to just stay kind of going. So you're doing, like, three shows, like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 'cause you've got the bus rented, you've got all the equipment rented, you got the guys, you know, on salary. So you just have to keep going. It's actually really hard to- for it to pencil out when you're just doing a show here and there.

Joe Rogan 7:26 Right. Yeah. That's... Stand-up comedy is so much easier in that regard. I've only done one stand-up comedy tour tour. I did it with Charlie Murphy and Jon Heffron. We, we did this Bud Light Maxim tour back in 2007, and we did, like, 22 dates in a month. And so it was like, I would wake up, and I wouldn't know where I was. I'd look at the ceiling. I'm going, "Where the fuck am I?" I don't... I, I would have to think, "Uh, Columbus." You know?

Luke Grimes 7:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 7:56 I'd have to, like, go through my head and figure out where I am when I woke up.

Luke Grimes 8:00 Was there ever, like, a period of stage fright when you started doing stand-up?

Joe Rogan 8:04 Oh, yeah.

Luke Grimes 8:05 Really?

Joe Rogan 8:05 Yeah, yeah. The first day. I was more f- afraid the first time I got on stage than I was the first time I fought.

Luke Grimes 8:13 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 8:13 It was nuts.

Luke Grimes 8:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:15 I was like, "Why am I so nervous?" I was like r- I was thinking about chickenin' out. I was thinking about not doing it. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 8:21 I do that every time I play a music show, dude.

Joe Rogan 8:23 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 8:23 I'm like, "Can I just call it off?" [laughs]

Joe Rogan 8:26 [laughs] Do you still get stage fright right now?

Luke Grimes 8:28 Really bad. Well-

Joe Rogan 8:29 Really?

Luke Grimes 8:29 Well, that's the thing, man. I've, I've... I'd always played music b- and, and when I was playing in bands and playing out, I was the drummer.

Joe Rogan 8:35 Oh.

Luke Grimes 8:36 So... But I always wrote songs and stuff, but I never thought... I had never had ambition around, like, "I wanna be the guy in front of the microphone." That was never, you know, the plan. And then, you know, to be able to make an album, which I wanted to do, you have to go stand in front of the microphone, and that's the hard part for me. I love being in the studio. I love writing the songs. I love making the music, recording the music, but there's something about knowing that all these people have shown up and bought a ticket-

Joe Rogan 8:59 Yeah

Luke Grimes 8:59 ... to see you, and you're like, all the sudden this thing starts happening in me where like, they bought a ticket, imposter syndrome, you're not good enough for them to have spent their money. You know, it's just this whole thing.

Joe Rogan 9:09 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 9:09 And it's like, "Dude, shut up." I know it's gonna be okay, but it doesn't matter. Every time I still get a little bit of the, you know...

Joe Rogan 9:16 I think everybody who's sane gets imposter syndrome.

Luke Grimes 9:20 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 9:20 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 9:21 Okay. Gotcha.

Joe Rogan 9:21 Everybody that I've talked to that's sane.

Luke Grimes 9:22 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 9:23 It's like the really kooky ones don't. Like, I don't think Kanye's ever gotten imposter syndrome. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 9:27 [laughs] No, dude.

Joe Rogan 9:30 You know what I'm saying?

Luke Grimes 9:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:31 It's like the, the o- I better be... Also, he's a genius. But it's like the ones who are sane, like, it doesn't make any sense. Like, none of it makes any sense.

Luke Grimes 9:41 Yeah. Well, I, I get it in droves and, and way more for the music than the acting, but it's... Again, I've, I've been acting in film and TV for over 20 years now.

Joe Rogan 9:50 When did you first get on stage to sing? How old were you?

Luke Grimes 9:53 Um, the very first show I played, I was 39.

Joe Rogan 9:58 Oh my God. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 10:01 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:01 Oh. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 10:01 Like, I had done karaoke before.

Joe Rogan 10:03 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 10:04 Right? But, uh, you know, I... It kinda came about in the weirdest way. I, I literally was on set one day and get a call out of the blue from this manager, this music manager, uh, Matt Graham, who's a great manager and a really good friend of mine. But he called and said, "Hey, I know you don't know who I am, but I know that you're a musician, and, you know, I, I love Yellowstone. I love you in that show. Would... Is that something that you would wanna take seriously?" And I was like, like, "What does that mean?" He's like, "I bet I could get you a record deal." And I was like, "No, man. That's... No, no, I don't wanna do that." And we talked for two years, and over the course of the two years, I really started to trust him. He sort of, like, explained to me what, you know, what would be required, and long story short, my f- my father passed away somewhere in there, and sort of one of the last things he sort of conveyed to me was like, "If there's anything you wanna do while you're here, do it." You know? And, uh, something about that moment, I was like, "I'm just gonna fucking do it. You know, I don't care. I'm... What's, what's the worst thing that can happen? I'm another actor who made a goofy album."

Joe Rogan 11:07 Right.

Luke Grimes 11:08 "So what? I got to do it, you know?" Um, so I did, and then immediately it's like, well, now you have to go tour it. Otherwise, you know, they're not gonna put up the money for you to make these things if you don't go sell it, you know? So the tour is sort of to get the music out there and get people buying it. Um, and so yeah, first show, it was in Billings, Montana, for I think it was 1,200 people.

Joe Rogan 11:30 Whoa.

Luke Grimes 11:31 Um, at this place called, I think it was Pub Station.

Joe Rogan 11:33 What was that like first time doing it? [laughs]

Luke Grimes 11:35 Dude, I blacked out, man.

Joe Rogan 11:37 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 11:38 Like, not drinking. Like, I just blacked out on nerves, dude.

Joe Rogan 11:41 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 11:42 Like, it, you know, it started, my knees were shaking, my hands were shaking. This is before I knew about, like, beta blockers or anything like that.

Joe Rogan 11:48 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 11:49 And I... The show was over, and I was like, "How, how was... Was that okay? How, how'd that go?" And everybody's, "It was good. You know, it was good. It was fine." The fourth show I ever played was Stagecoach.

Joe Rogan 12:00 Whoa.

Luke Grimes 12:02 Yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 12:03 That's nuts.

Luke Grimes 12:04 It was crazy. I mean, it was earlier in the day. It's not like I had, you know, 100,000 people out there, but still, that's a big stage.

Joe Rogan 12:10 That's a big stage.

Luke Grimes 12:12 And, um, yeah. I, so, but, you know, little by little it got somewhat better. I don't black out anymore. I kind of, I know where I'm at, and I'm, I'm there. But, uh, it's still something I deal with.

Joe Rogan 12:23 Oliver Anthony, the first show he ever played live in front of people was like 20,000 people.

Luke Grimes 12:29 That's insane. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 12:29 It's so nuts. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 12:30 That's insane. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:32 Wasn't it like that? It was huge, right? It was like, it was some... It was a gigantic crowd. I, I don't think I'm exaggerating. Because he got really famous before he ever went on tour.

Luke Grimes 12:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:42 That one song, Rich Men North of Richmond, that, that song, like in- instantly made him famous.

Luke Grimes 12:50 He rode a rocket, dude.

Joe Rogan 12:52 Pkh.

Luke Grimes 12:52 That rarely happens. There's, there's, you know... Few people know that feeling. I've, I, I can't imagine.

Joe Rogan 12:57 But he, he was freaking out. Like, uh, I became friends with him, like, right when it was happening, 'cause he was, like, a little lost, and he said a bunch of people... I go, "Let's talk." So we got on the phone. Like, it was before he had, you know, he'd gotten a ton of record deals, and all these different people were saying, you know, "Hey, sign with me. We'll give you a X amount of money in advance." I go, "Don't sign nothing."

Luke Grimes 13:20 Mm.

Joe Rogan 13:21 And he was like, "Everybody's telling me that I gotta ac- strike while the iron's hot." I go, "No, no, no, no, no." I go, "Dude, you got talent."

Luke Grimes 13:27 Mm.

Joe Rogan 13:27 I go, "You got real talent. You're always gonna have talent. It's just a matter of putting in the work, and you're gonna be huge. You don't need these people. These people are all vampires."

Luke Grimes 13:36 Mm.

Joe Rogan 13:36 "They're all just trying to suck on your neck. Don't let 'em."

Luke Grimes 13:39 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 13:39 "Don't let 'em." Thank God he listened, because he was getting offers, like $7 million and shit, and he, he was a fucking heavy equipment salesman, you know? And so then all of a sudden, dude's like, "What the fuck is going on?"

Luke Grimes 13:50 [laughs] That's insane. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:51 One song with him and a guitar, just standing in a field.

Luke Grimes 13:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:55 And that's all it took.

Luke Grimes 13:57 That's amazing. I mean, that's how it should be, right?

Joe Rogan 13:58 It's cool.

Luke Grimes 13:59 I had the complete opposite story.

Joe Rogan 14:00 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 14:00 My story's not cool at all.

Joe Rogan 14:02 [laughs] But it's still cool.

Luke Grimes 14:02 I'm, like, I'm a successful actor, and I got a record deal for no reason.

Joe Rogan 14:05 Yeah, but you had a record deal because you wanted to do it, 'cause you're interested in that, too. Like, you can do anything you wanna do. Like, just because you're a successful actor doesn't mean you can't do it.

Luke Grimes 14:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:17 You know?

Luke Grimes 14:17 But I think, you know, m- a lot of the thing with music is the story of the person.

Joe Rogan 14:20 Uh-huh.

Luke Grimes 14:21 So I knew going in, like, I don't have the best story. I, I, I, I do come from nothing, and I did work my ass off to become an actor and all that, but, you know, the, the, my way into the music was a little wonky. But...

Joe Rogan 14:33 But sometimes that's good, 'cause it makes you work harder to prove to people that you're legit.

Luke Grimes 14:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:37 You know?

Luke Grimes 14:38 There you go.

Joe Rogan 14:38 'Cause you have this thing over your head where they're like, "Fuck that pretty boy motherfucker."

Luke Grimes 14:42 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:42 Like, "TV star motherfu- fuck that dude." [laughs] "Fuck Kayce Dutton."

Luke Grimes 14:47 There we go.

Joe Rogan 14:47 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 14:47 So the music's gonna have to be good enough.

Joe Rogan 14:49 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 14:49 That, that's just sort of the thing.

Joe Rogan 14:50 That's all it is.

Luke Grimes 14:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:51 It's just, it just, it'll force you to work harder, but it just... Everybody's story's different. That's what makes it fun. You know, if everybody had the same story, you know?

Luke Grimes 14:59 Yeah. I mean, you're kind of the, the king of following your passion, right? You've, you've done that a lot.

Joe Rogan 15:04 Yeah, I've been super lucky, you know? I'm just lucky that there's a job for all these things I like, you know? It's...

Luke Grimes 15:10 There wasn't.

Joe Rogan 15:11 Well, there wasn't for this one.

Luke Grimes 15:13 Like, you manifested it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:13 This one, there was other people doing it already, but it wasn't a job for the longest time. It's kind of a fun story that me and my wife always joke around about, 'cause, like, one time she was taking the ki- we were all supposed to go to Disneyland, but I, I had to do this podcast. I'm like... She was like, "You don't have to do it." I go, "But I do. I do it every week." But it wasn't really making any money back then.

Luke Grimes 15:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 15:33 But I was like, "I promised people it would be out." Like, "I gotta do it." Now she's like, "Thank God you didn't listen to me." [laughs]

Luke Grimes 15:40 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 15:42 It's just, [clears throat] I di- I mean, I got lucky. I, I came in right at the right time. There was only a few people doing it back then, and I just did it for fun. I just thought, "That would be fun to do."

Luke Grimes 15:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:52 And then all of a sudden it became a job.

Luke Grimes 15:55 Yeah. And with the UFC stuff, too.

Joe Rogan 15:56 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 15:56 That was-

Joe Rogan 15:57 That, too. That was fun, too.

Luke Grimes 15:59 Did you think that would become what it became?

Joe Rogan 16:01 No. No. When I first started doing it was in 1997, [clears throat] and it was, uh, in a high school auditorium in Dothan, Alabama, and we had to take a propeller plane to get there. And, uh, it was banned from cable, so you could only watch it on DirecTV. This was UFC 12, and-

Luke Grimes 16:19 Wow

Joe Rogan 16:20 ... there was no one in the audience, and no one was watching it. And I was already on a TV show. I was on news radio. And the people on news radio, like the actors and the producers, they were like, "What are you doing? You're flying to go do cage fighting?" It, it was almost like I was doing porn. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 16:34 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 16:34 You know? It's like... Or s- fucking snuff films or something.

Luke Grimes 16:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:38 It's like, "Dude, you're gonna ruin your life doing this." I was like, "I don't, I don't know what you guys are talking about. This is what I've always wanted to see. I've always wanted to see all the best martial artists of different styles get together. Nobody ever did it. These guys are doing it. I'm gonna go."

Luke Grimes 16:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:51 I'm like, "This is..."

Luke Grimes 16:52 I remember renting the, like, first few from Blockbuster.

Joe Rogan 16:56 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 16:56 Remember that?

Joe Rogan 16:56 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 16:56 Oh, it was the best. It was like Bloodsport back then.

Joe Rogan 16:58 Oh, yeah. Oh, it changed my life. I got UFC 2, was the first one. The first one wasn't available. You had to get 2 was the only one, and it was on VHS tape. And I had a buddy of mine who told me about it. He's like, "Dude, you gotta see this thing, man." He goes, "They got these guys, they're fighting in a cage, and this one dude's just choking everybody, and he's wearing a gi." I was like, "Really? What is it?" And then I watched it, and I was like, "Holy shit."

Luke Grimes 17:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:22 I was hooked, like, right away. I was like, "They fucking did it. They actually did it." 'Cause, like, when I was a kid, everybody thought that what they were... If you did karate, you thought karate was the best. If you thought judo, you thought judo was the best. And nobody really knew what was the most effective martial art, 'cause nobody had ever put together anything like the UFC.

Luke Grimes 17:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:41 So once it happened, I mean, it was just such a huge part of my life. I was like, "I'm not gonna not do this just 'cause it's bad for my acting career." I'm like, "If my acting career goes away, I, I don't... You know, whatever. I'm only doing this for money anyway. So, like, I'll just figure it out." [laughs]

Luke Grimes 17:58 [laughs] You were the only person in LA with that mentality, by the way. That really served you well.

Joe Rogan 18:02 Well, I wasn't supposed to be in LA, you know? I mean, I only came to LA for money. I, um, the, and I would've moved back. I was living in New York, and, um, I did a show called Hardball, and that got canceled. And the only reason why I stayed is 'cause I got a lease on an apartment.I was fully ready to get out of there. I was like, "I gotta get the fuck out of this place." I hated it. I hated being around actors. I hated being around producers and casting agents. I was like, "These people are so fake." I was used to being around fighters and comedians and pool players.

Luke Grimes 18:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:34 Like, the, the rawest, funniest, like, o- outcasts of society. Like, those were my people. I was used to, like, cracking jokes with friends, and everybody was, like, busting on each other, and everybody had a great sense of humor, th- just silly weirdos. And then all of a sudden I'm around these people that, like, all had these, like, predetermined things that they thought they should say, so they would say them, you know? And everybody had, like... It was all group think.

Luke Grimes 19:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:00 It was like, "Ugh, this is fucking horrible."

Luke Grimes 19:02 Yeah, I always say that felt like when I lived in L... I lived in LA for 16 years, and, and, you know, I don't wanna complain about it. It was ob- obviously good to me. Like, it, you know-

Joe Rogan 19:11 Yeah

Luke Grimes 19:11 ... helped my life quite a bit. But it always felt like everybody was trying to become the same person.

Joe Rogan 19:16 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 19:17 But they don't know who that person is.

Joe Rogan 19:19 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 19:19 I'm like, "Can we, can you just tell me who the person is so I can..."

Joe Rogan 19:22 Right.

Luke Grimes 19:22 You know what I mean? There's, like, a memo that went out that I didn't get or something.

Joe Rogan 19:25 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 19:25 So.

Joe Rogan 19:26 Nobody got that memo. They were all playing it by ear, you know? And they, they were just... It was all dependent upon what the producers and the casting agents wanted you to be.

Luke Grimes 19:34 Mm.

Joe Rogan 19:35 And so everybody would sort of adapt. Like, whenever you got a place where everybody has the same politics, that's not a good sign.

Luke Grimes 19:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:42 Like, that, something's gone wrong. And everybody has these progressive left-wing politics [clears throat] regardless of whether or not any of their positions make sense.

Luke Grimes 19:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:51 They all just sort of spit it out.

Luke Grimes 19:52 Well, I think it's just that there is sort of a desperation that gets bred from... I mean, these people left their families. They moved away. They left everything they've ever known and gave up a lot of comfort and security and love to, to follow this dream.

Joe Rogan 20:06 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 20:07 And so that, that dream becomes more and more and more important. You need it more and more because now you have nothing else.

Joe Rogan 20:13 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 20:13 You've given everything else up. And so I think at that point you can, you can sort of mold people into whatever you'd like them to be.

Joe Rogan 20:19 Oh, for sure. It ruins comics.

Luke Grimes 20:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:22 Because when comics start doing well, one of the first... As soon as they start getting on television, the first thing they start doing is tempering their material. They tone it down a little bit, take the edge off, don't say anything that can get you in trouble. And, you know, generally those are the funniest things. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 20:38 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 20:38 The funniest things are the things that could go terribly wrong, you know, and, and get you in trouble. So they do that, and then just, you know, they become, like, an... I, I always call it the velvet prison 'cause you get locked into that velvet prison. You get, you get on TV, you get, get money, but also you become just one of everybody else.

Luke Grimes 20:59 Yeah. It's hard, it's hard not to do. I mean, I'm, that's where I'm at, you know? I still have a boss.

Joe Rogan 21:03 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 21:04 You know, my, my checks are written by a very specific company that, you know, I have to be careful sometimes.

Joe Rogan 21:10 I know.

Luke Grimes 21:10 You know, even doing this today I'm like, just a little bit I don't wanna do that to you and sit here and, like-

Joe Rogan 21:15 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 21:15 ... police myself the whole time. But I gotta be like, "Just don't say this," or, you know? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 21:19 Right. Oh, yeah. No, I'm firmly aware of it.

Luke Grimes 21:22 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 21:22 People come in here, and I, I could see it in their face, like, "Please don't bring up anything crazy."

Luke Grimes 21:27 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 21:27 "No trans talk." [laughs]

Luke Grimes 21:30 For sure, dude.

Joe Rogan 21:31 Don't talk about-

Luke Grimes 21:31 Let's stay away from that today.

Joe Rogan 21:32 Yeah. I mean, people...

Luke Grimes 21:33 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 21:34 I mean, it's, it's, you know, it's a tricky situation. And the, the thing about LA too is everybody has to get picked for stuff.

Luke Grimes 21:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:44 It's not... Like, even, like, music. Like, especially, like, look at Oliver Anthony. No music deal, no nothing, just put something on YouTube, pew, blows up.

Luke Grimes 21:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:52 That's a real... In this day and age, that's a real thing. But in acting it's still you have to get chosen. You have to get cast for something. And just that weird thing alone where you're going into this thing and these people have to approve you. And most of the people that get involved in acting in the first place, a li- a large percentage of them, they did it because they didn't get enough attention when they were younger, and this is, like, they, they-

Luke Grimes 22:15 Vengeance

Joe Rogan 22:15 ... just wanna make up for it. Well-

Luke Grimes 22:16 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 22:17 That's why I became a comedian, I'm pretty sure.

Luke Grimes 22:18 Yeah, for sure. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 22:19 You know, it's all the same kind of mindset. Like, there's something about you that wants to be famous, right?

Luke Grimes 22:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:25 That just wants... You know, unless you're, like, someone who's just in love with the craft of acting, you know?

Luke Grimes 22:31 Right. Which how could you be when... You know, I made the decision that I wanted to be an actor when I was, like, five years old.

Joe Rogan 22:36 Really?

Luke Grimes 22:36 I didn't know what a- the craft of acting was. My thing, though, honestly, was I loved movies so much, I think I just, because I, I, I liked them more than my life.

Joe Rogan 22:48 Mm.

Luke Grimes 22:48 You know? I wanted to live in the movie.

Joe Rogan 22:51 Right.

Luke Grimes 22:51 I didn't know what making them would actually be like. I didn't know what that career looked like. I didn't know what acting was. But I would go to the movie theater and wanna be in it.

Joe Rogan 23:00 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 23:00 And I'd also see the guy... And I, I don't know, whatever the skill set was, I was like, "Whatever they're doing, I think I can do that. I, I think I have whatever that is." And, you know, thank God I was at least somewhat right or I'd be waiting tables in LA right now.

Joe Rogan 23:14 Well, it's a interesting thing, right? Because it's a craft that seems like you're just doing normal life, right? Like, you're, you're pretending, but you're, you're acting and behaving in a way that people do act and behave. Like, that's the key to it. It has to be believable.

Luke Grimes 23:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:36 So most people watch it go, "I can do that."

Luke Grimes 23:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:39 Like, it's, this is normal life. They're ac- just acting like they're in normal life.

Luke Grimes 23:44 Right. But what you don't realize is that there's, like, a dude with a beard with a microphone in your face-

Joe Rogan 23:48 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 23:48 ... and 200 people standing around waiting for you to be done so they-

Joe Rogan 23:51 Yeah

Luke Grimes 23:51 ... can do their job again.

Joe Rogan 23:52 Sipping coffee.

Luke Grimes 23:53 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 23:54 Shaking their head. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 23:56 Right at their lot. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 23:58 And if you fuck up a line, like, "Oh, Jesus."

Luke Grimes 24:00 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 24:01 "This fucking guy. Fucking unprofessional."

Luke Grimes 24:03 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 24:03 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 24:04 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 24:04 Yeah. It's a weird gig, man. It's a weird gig, and it's not what most people think it is. And you can tell that by, like, the masters, the real masters. You know, when you see, like, a Daniel Day Lewis do it, and you're like, "Okay, whatever he's doing, I'm not doing that."

Luke Grimes 24:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:18 That's a, that's a fucking totally different thing.

Luke Grimes 24:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 24:20 This guy's in, in some weird place where he becomes-

Luke Grimes 24:22 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 24:22 ... Gary Oldman becomes a different person every movie, and you believe it.

Luke Grimes 24:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:27 That's the real craft of it, right? Where like, I fucking know that's Gary Oldman, right? But he's different in every m- now he's Dracula-

Luke Grimes 24:35 Right

Joe Rogan 24:35 ... and I believe it.

Luke Grimes 24:36 He's amazing.

Joe Rogan 24:37 [sighs]

Luke Grimes 24:37 Both of those guys, amazing.

Joe Rogan 24:38 You ever watch that show, um, Slow Horses?

Luke Grimes 24:41 I love it.

Joe Rogan 24:41 Fucking great show, right?

Luke Grimes 24:43 Yeah, it's really good.

Joe Rogan 24:43 It's a great show. I can't wait for the new season. I've been hooked. Somebody told me about it, and I was a little skeptical at first. I was like, "All right."

Luke Grimes 24:50 And you never see, like, a lead, your, your number one-

Joe Rogan 24:53 Right

Luke Grimes 24:53 ... being, like, a total piece of shit.

Joe Rogan 24:55 Right. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 24:56 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 24:56 Total piece of shit.

Luke Grimes 24:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:57 Except Tony Soprano.

Luke Grimes 24:58 There you go. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:59 Yeah. That, he w- that was a weird show, right? Like, the guy was a murderer and a thief, and you love him.

Luke Grimes 25:04 You loved him. He was so good.

Joe Rogan 25:05 [blows raspberry] Yeah. There was another guy, Gandolfini, man, that you fucking believed him.

Luke Grimes 25:12 And there wasn't acting like that in television yet.

Joe Rogan 25:15 No.

Luke Grimes 25:16 That was, like, the first of its kind.

Joe Rogan 25:17 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 25:18 And even within that show, he was doing something no one else was doing.

Joe Rogan 25:22 Right.

Luke Grimes 25:22 And that's hard to, that's hard to keep up for... You know, you can-- If you do it for a film, you're doing it for a couple months-

Joe Rogan 25:28 Yeah

Luke Grimes 25:28 ... you know, at that, at that level of intensity. But to do that for seven years, for months and months at a time, is impossible.

Joe Rogan 25:34 Well, there was a danger in his eyes, like a real danger. Like, there's something about that dude that, that that dude's got... Or while he was alive, he had demons b- in his brain. Like, you could tell.

Luke Grimes 25:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:49 Like, there was moments, the, these menacing moments where he was, like, threatening someone or doing something. You're like, "That's coming from a real place."

Luke Grimes 25:57 Right. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 25:58 [laughs] That's, that guy, you know, there's some guys who play tough guys in movies, you're like, "I'm not buying it." But th- with that guy, you're like, "Oh, okay. This, this guy could kill somebody." [laughs]

Luke Grimes 26:08 Yeah. You don't wanna piss him off in real life. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:11 Well, he was also out of fucking control. You know, have you ever, uh, see the list of the things that he consumed before he died?

Luke Grimes 26:18 I have seen that.

Joe Rogan 26:19 It's bananas.

Luke Grimes 26:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:21 I mean, he was just off the rails.

Luke Grimes 26:22 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 26:22 Just out of his fucking mind. But he-

Luke Grimes 26:24 Have you seen the Hunter S. Thompson one?

Joe Rogan 26:26 Oh, dude.

Luke Grimes 26:26 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:27 We narrated it. We read it, and then this guy... What was the dude, what's the guy's name that turned it into a song?

Speaker 26:34 I don't know. Uh... Oh.

Joe Rogan 26:39 There's a, there's a, a, a dance song, like a electric music dance song-

Luke Grimes 26:44 [laughs] Oh, that's awesome. I haven't heard that

Joe Rogan 26:45 ... with me and my friend Greg Fitzsimmons. We're reading off Hunter S. Thompson's, like, his daily routine-

Speaker 26:52 Beardy Man

Joe Rogan 26:53 ... with his... Beardy Man, yeah.

Luke Grimes 26:54 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:54 Shout out to Beardy Man. It's pretty dope. Play it. Fuck it.

Speaker 26:58 Uh...

Joe Rogan 26:59 Can we?

Speaker 26:59 I-

Joe Rogan 27:00 Will we get in trouble?

Speaker 27:01 [laughs] Can isn't the right word to ask.

Joe Rogan 27:04 [laughs]

Speaker 27:06 We can.

Joe Rogan 27:06 What would happen?

Speaker 27:08 We lose, it, uh, like, revenue changes and stuff like that.

Joe Rogan 27:11 For sure?

Speaker 27:11 Yeah, 100%.

Joe Rogan 27:12 All right. Don't play it.

Luke Grimes 27:13 I'll listen to it after.

Speaker 27:14 Sorry.

Joe Rogan 27:15 Yeah. Well, I'll send it to you. But it's, uh, it's a bananas routine. And, you know, at the end of his life... I'm a giant Hunter S. Thompson fan, as you can tell-

Luke Grimes 27:24 Yeah

Joe Rogan 27:24 ... walking through the, all the artwork. But at the end of his life, like, he couldn't even talk. Like, he did an appearance once on Conan O'Brien, and it, to me, it was, like, one of the saddest things, 'cause, like, you could barely understand what he was saying. [grumbles] He's just mumbling, and g- it, he... Uh, when he was young, he was so fucking smooth and articulate and interesting and fascinating, and, and it just, drugs.

Luke Grimes 27:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:48 Just drugs and booze just cooked his brain.

Luke Grimes 27:51 I'll have to do a deep dive on him. I d- I've never read any of his stuff.

Joe Rogan 27:55 Really?

Luke Grimes 27:55 No, I haven't.

Joe Rogan 27:56 Oh, just read, w- just start off with Fear and Loathing.

Luke Grimes 27:59 Okay.

Joe Rogan 28:00 Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas was a... He got a assignment to cover, I think it was a motorcycle race. That was the job. So I think it was for Sports Illustrated or something like that. He got a, a job to just cover a race, and he goes down there and just brings every kind of fucking drug known to man.

Luke Grimes 28:21 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 28:21 Drives through the desert in a convertible with his friend, and just writes this insane book. It's completely insane. It has nothing to do with this motorcycle race.

Luke Grimes 28:30 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 28:30 It's just all about the chaos of being out of your fucking mind in Vegas, and it's brilliant. It's so good.

Luke Grimes 28:39 I'll check it out. Do you like Vegas?

Joe Rogan 28:42 I mean, I'm there a lot-

Luke Grimes 28:43 Right

Joe Rogan 28:43 ... for fights. And when I go, we go to a restaurant, I go play pool, I go to the fights. I don't do anything else.

Luke Grimes 28:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:51 So it's like, for me, it's like, yeah, there's great restaurants, you know, the fights are awesome. I love doing that. So it's like, but there's something about it where I ever, every time I go there, I'm like, "Could I live here?" Like, I was actually talking to my friend Tony Hinchcliffe about it this past weekend. We were just there for the fights. And, um, I was saying, like, "What if a..." I went, 'cause, you know, Kill Tony's this gigantic show now. It's huge. He sells out arenas all over the country with it. It's on Netflix. And I was saying, like, "What if a, a Vegas casino offered you a fucking pile of money? Would you, do you think you could ever live here?" And we were just sitting there, and he's like, "I don't... No."

Luke Grimes 29:28 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 29:28 "I don't wanna do it."

Luke Grimes 29:29 I don't think I could do it either.

Joe Rogan 29:30 'Cause I, I think it's like sleeping next to a vampire. Like, even if you know that the vampire's in the other room-

Luke Grimes 29:37 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 29:38 ... and he's not gonna bite your neck, it's like, he's right there.

Luke Grimes 29:40 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 29:41 You know? It's like-

Luke Grimes 29:42 Yeah, for sure

Joe Rogan 29:42 ... I don't think it's good for you.

Luke Grimes 29:44 Vegas, to me, is like, you know when you, you have a big night out on a certain type of booze-

Joe Rogan 29:49 Mm-hmm

Luke Grimes 29:49 ... and you get sick?

Joe Rogan 29:50 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 29:50 And then, then anytime you drink that booze after that, that, that's Vegas to me.

Joe Rogan 29:54 Right. Well, you-

Luke Grimes 29:54 Any time I land in Vegas, I'm like, "Ugh."

Joe Rogan 29:56 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 29:56 I just feel gross, 'cause I remember the last time I was there-

Joe Rogan 30:00 Right

Luke Grimes 30:00 ... or the first time.

Joe Rogan 30:01 Yeah. It's, I think the people that live outside of Vegas, like people live in Henderson and places like that, they love it, 'cause it's really nice out there. Like, you go out to the outskirts of Vegas, there's beautiful neighborhoods and nice communities, and, like, great stores and restaurants and stuff. It's nice. But you're still next to the Death Star.

Luke Grimes 30:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:20 It's like this big neon fucking vacuum just sucking people's money out of them.

Luke Grimes 30:26 I've never been off the Strip. Maybe I should try that out.

Joe Rogan 30:28 Yeah. Yeah. There's a, there's, there's great restaurants and great neighborhoods. Like, it's, it's fine outside. But the reason why they're there is because of the Death Star. Like, that's what brings everybody there. You know, everybody's there to just lose all their money.

Luke Grimes 30:43 Yeah, make really bad decisions.

Joe Rogan 30:45 Yeah. Like I-- And all my friends who gamble, when I would go there with them, I'd go, "Look at this place. See how big it is? How do you think they got that money? Suckers like you." [both laughing] This isn't, this isn't like a fair exchange-

Luke Grimes 31:00 No

Joe Rogan 31:00 ... like they're giving you goods and you're giving them money. No, this is like they're giving you this, like, crazy proposition where you think you're gonna play blackjack and win a billion dollars. Like it's-

Luke Grimes 31:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:11 And if you win too much money, they kick you out.

Luke Grimes 31:13 Did you ever gamble? Was that ever-

Joe Rogan 31:14 No.

Luke Grimes 31:15 No.

Joe Rogan 31:15 No. No, no, no, no. Not really. I mean, I've, I've bet some money on fights. I've, I've played blackjack a few times, but I've never lost any real money. But my friend Dana White, he's a fucking degenerate, like a crazy degenerate.

Luke Grimes 31:28 That's what I heard.

Joe Rogan 31:28 I went to visit him recently. So he was at Red Rocks Casino, and, uh, a couple of my other buddies were there. So we showed up and went into the blackjack room, and he was there. And when I got there, he was down $600,000. When I got there. And it was a normal night for him.

Luke Grimes 31:45 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 31:45 And he wasn't even nervous. He was like, "Hey, what's up?" He's shaking, like shaking my hand, giving me a hug. All these other people are there, and I got fucking massive anxiety.

Luke Grimes 31:54 Yeah, no.

Joe Rogan 31:54 I was like-

Luke Grimes 31:54 I hate that

Joe Rogan 31:55 ... "This is crazy. How are you..." And then so him and, and Jamie was there too, and him and, uh, uh, Taylor Lewan, the football player, he, he coaches Taylor how to, how to play blackjack. And so they got together. He tells them when to hit and when not to hit, and they did it right next to us. Within five minutes, Taylor was down $125,000.

Luke Grimes 32:15 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 32:15 I was like, "What are you doing?"

Luke Grimes 32:18 Oh, man. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:19 So he-

Luke Grimes 32:19 That makes me nervous just thinking about it

Joe Rogan 32:20 ... he got up, and then they quit. So he quit ahead. I think he won, like, 100 grand, and then he quit.

Luke Grimes 32:24 Then they moved on to baccarat 'cause you can bet more per hand.

Joe Rogan 32:28 That that's what they're doing now?

Luke Grimes 32:29 Yeah. It's like up to 500K per hand or something like that.

Joe Rogan 32:32 Oh.

Luke Grimes 32:32 Which one's baccarat?

Joe Rogan 32:33 How do you play that?

Luke Grimes 32:34 I, I, I've tried to watch it. I don't really quite understand. It's apparently not hard. You b- you're betting on the dealer or the player.

Joe Rogan 32:41 Is that the big long table-

Luke Grimes 32:43 And then the cards come out

Joe Rogan 32:43 ... with all the...

Luke Grimes 32:44 I don't understand it.

Joe Rogan 32:45 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 32:45 It's not like r- it's not as long as, uh, like roulette.

Joe Rogan 32:48 So Dana's onto that now or Taylor?

Luke Grimes 32:50 Oh, yeah, yeah. I think that room, they switched them all to, uh, baccarat. Taylor-

Joe Rogan 32:53 Oh

Luke Grimes 32:53 ... I don't think was blackjack anymore.

Joe Rogan 32:53 So you can g-gamble more?

Luke Grimes 32:55 Oh, yeah. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:57 Oh my God.

Luke Grimes 32:58 Definitely more faster. He's mainlining the gamble now.

Joe Rogan 33:01 He told a story on, um, I think it was, uh... Was it Flagrant? It was Flagrant, where he talked about losing, like-

Luke Grimes 33:08 Oh, yeah, yeah

Joe Rogan 33:09 ... $6 million in one night.

Luke Grimes 33:11 Yeah. What?

Joe Rogan 33:13 Yeah. That's my theory about slap fight, why they're doing slap fight. I think it's Dana's gambling money.

Luke Grimes 33:17 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 33:18 That's what I think. I think it's like he needs some source of revenue outside of the UFC so he doesn't, doesn't lose his UFC money.

Luke Grimes 33:24 That's tough to watch, man. I don't-

Joe Rogan 33:26 I don't watch it.

Luke Grimes 33:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:28 I've watched a couple of clips.

Luke Grimes 33:29 Sorry, Dana. I know you are.

Joe Rogan 33:30 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 33:30 But it's tough to watch.

Joe Rogan 33:31 I don't watch it.

Luke Grimes 33:31 It's just people getting brain damage-

Joe Rogan 33:33 It's not-

Luke Grimes 33:33 ... over and over again.

Joe Rogan 33:34 Yeah, it's not my thing.

Luke Grimes 33:34 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 33:35 I don't get it. It's, and it's all, like, the saddest people getting whacked in the head.

Luke Grimes 33:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:40 It's, um, it's not a good thing.

Luke Grimes 33:41 Not good.

Joe Rogan 33:42 Yeah. And they call it fights too. Like, okay. Fair enough.

Luke Grimes 33:45 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 33:46 I mean, I guess. They should come up with another name. It's kind of insulting to an actual fight.

Luke Grimes 33:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:51 But that's my theory is that that's his, uh, gambling money, 'cause that fucking dude gambles. 'Cause I asked him once, I go, "You like living here?" He goes, "I love the action." I'm like, "Okay." [both laughing] I mean, he's a good friend of mine, but he's a different person than me.

Luke Grimes 34:06 That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 34:06 I'm not... That's not me.

Luke Grimes 34:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:08 If I lived in Vegas, I'd live way outside of Vegas, and even then I don't think I could do it. 'Cause we've talked about, um, you know, we have a, a comedy club in town, the Comedy Mothership, and we talked about doing another Mothership somewhere, and the two most likely places that we would be able to do it are New York and Vegas. So we talked about doing one in Vegas, but I was like, man, the only way it would work is I'd, I'd have to be there a lot. Like, we'd have to be there a lot, and we'd have to, you know, we'd have to make sure that it's run right, that it's, like, run with the same vibe that we run it here, where everybody's cool. There's no assholes. Everybody's real friendly and real supportive of new comedians, and then I'd have to spend a lot of time there. I'm like, "I don't wanna do that."

Luke Grimes 34:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:52 It's just...

Luke Grimes 34:53 Wouldn't New York be like returning to where you cut your teeth or something? Is that where you started doing-

Joe Rogan 34:57 Yeah, I, I mean, I started in Boston, but I, I did spend a lot of time in New York. Um, New York would be a better option really because there's a lot more talent there.

Luke Grimes 35:05 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 35:06 In, in order to have a really good comedy club, you, you can't y- you can't just start it out... Like, you can't just go, like, to Columbus, Ohio, or Cincinnati or... I guess Columbus has, like, a little bit of a scene. But you would have to have a real scene with, like, real headliners and a l- a, like, top-level talent.

Luke Grimes 35:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:24 And the way we were able to pull it off in Austin is everybody moved here during the pandemic. Like, me and Tony moved-- Ron White moved here first, and then me and Tony moved here, and then once we started doing shows, we were talking to all our friends in LA, and LA was shut down during the pandemic. And so everybody just kinda moved out here at least temporarily, 'cause comedians are junkies. Like, they wanna go on stage, and, and w- it was taken away from them for a year and a half in LA.

Luke Grimes 35:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:51 Couldn't perform in, in LA for a year and a half. Made no fucking sense. And out here, we were just doing shows, like, in November of 2020.

Luke Grimes 35:59 Wow.

Joe Rogan 36:00 Like, it was indoor shows and super spreader shows [laughs] and, and-

Luke Grimes 36:04 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 36:05 So because of that-

Luke Grimes 36:06 Super sp- I forgot about that word

Joe Rogan 36:07 ... Tom Segura moved here. Christina Pazsitsky moved here. Tim Dillon moved here. I mean, it's just like ev- Shane Gillis moved here. It was like we had so many, like, national headliners, we could pull off a club.

Luke Grimes 36:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:20 But you have to have that kinda thing where it's not just the weekends, but you have to have, like, Tuesday shows, Wednesday shows. It just has to be, like, a lot of people around that you-

Luke Grimes 36:30 Right

Joe Rogan 36:30 ... could have a show with.

Luke Grimes 36:32 The infrastructure.

Joe Rogan 36:33 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 36:34 I randomly lived in Austin during COVID.

Joe Rogan 36:37 Oh, really?

Luke Grimes 36:38 My wife and I, we got married in November of 2019. She's from Brazil, and I'm from Ohio, so we had no... There was nowhere we were gonna live where it was gonna feel like home. But we, you know, I'd lived in LA for 16 years. I was ready to get out. We wanted to start a family somewhere else, and, uh, we didn't know where to go, so we, we came here in December of 2019, and we had the best two months ever, and then everything shut down, and we're stuck in an apartment, don't know anybody. And, you know, it didn't really get a fair shake. We loved it while it was going, and then, uh, yeah, I, I did about two months of lockdown, couldn't do it anymore, and then we bought an Airstream and just started traveling around, and then I had to be in Montana for work, for Yellowstone, and we parked the Airstream up there and never left.

Joe Rogan 37:22 Oh, wow.

Luke Grimes 37:23 Yeah, so we've lived in Montana-

Joe Rogan 37:24 Montana's fucking awesome.

Luke Grimes 37:25 It's the best.

Joe Rogan 37:26 It's so great. It's so beautiful. Last time I was there was in the summer. Well, actually, last time I was there, I was hunting with Bourdain. We went pheasant hunting there. That was pretty cool.

Luke Grimes 37:36 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:37 Yeah, that was one of the last times I saw him.

Luke Grimes 37:38 What part?

Joe Rogan 37:39 Uh, I forget. I forget where we were. I'm, I'm pretty sure I flew into Bozeman, but I think we were outside of Billings.

Luke Grimes 37:49 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 37:50 I forget. Um, but the, in the summer there is insane.

Luke Grimes 37:56 Yeah, perfection.

Joe Rogan 37:57 It's so beautiful.

Luke Grimes 37:59 Perfection.

Joe Rogan 37:59 Like, everything's green, and you see the mountains, and we heard wolves howling one, one, one night, and you see elk herds just chilling on the side of a hill. Like, God, this place is magical.

Luke Grimes 38:10 And it doesn't get dark till, like, 11 at night.

Joe Rogan 38:12 Right.

Luke Grimes 38:12 It, yeah-

Joe Rogan 38:13 Right

Luke Grimes 38:13 ... it's very confusing to know, like, when to eat dinner because you're just, like, it's light for so long. But then in the wintertime, the, you know, the exchange is it gets dark at 4:30 PM.

Joe Rogan 38:22 Right.

Luke Grimes 38:23 Um, but yeah, we love it, man. It's the best thing that's ever happened for me of just sort of, like, all the LA stuff we were talking about.

Joe Rogan 38:30 Mm-hmm. It's the opposite of that.

Luke Grimes 38:31 The opposite. There's-

Joe Rogan 38:32 Yeah

Luke Grimes 38:32 ... I have no FOMO about anything anymore, you know? It's-

Joe Rogan 38:35 Oh, that's great

Luke Grimes 38:35 ... I, I can just think and sleep and read and watch films, and it's the best. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:40 Yeah. Well, your show made a lot of fucking people move out there, though.

Luke Grimes 38:44 That's true, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:45 Is that crazy?

Luke Grimes 38:45 And they're not happy about it. The, the valley that I live in-

Joe Rogan 38:48 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 38:49 ... we had some people come visit us. Our friends from California drove out, and we went on a hike, and, uh, we were in their car, and they had, you know, Cali plates, and we get off the hike, and someone had written, "Go back," in the dust on their car.

Joe Rogan 39:02 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 39:02 Like, people are super weird about... So I don't tell anyone, like, exactly where I'm at because they would get really mad at me.

Joe Rogan 39:08 Dude, that happened in 2012. I was hunting in Montana. We went to the Missouri Breaks, and, um, we, we were going to this restaurant, and one of the guys in the restaurant had, he had his car parked outside, and it was, like, a rental car, and someone had wrote, "Go back home."

Luke Grimes 39:26 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:26 You know, like, "Montana is for Montanans," or something like that. They wrote it in the dirt.

Luke Grimes 39:30 Right, which is dumb because if they have the plates, they clearly aren't-

Joe Rogan 39:34 Yeah

Luke Grimes 39:34 ... living there, you know?

Joe Rogan 39:35 Right.

Luke Grimes 39:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:36 They're visiting.

Luke Grimes 39:36 They're, they're going back. Don't worry.

Joe Rogan 39:37 Yeah, but it's just retards.

Luke Grimes 39:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:39 You're gonna get retards in every state. Like, if you have 100 people, one of them's a fucking idiot.

Luke Grimes 39:44 Sure.

Joe Rogan 39:44 Right? And if you got a, a town of, you know, X amount of 100,000 people, you're gonna have a good amount of fucking dumbasses.

Luke Grimes 39:51 For sure.

Joe Rogan 39:51 Those are the ones like, "This is our place."

Luke Grimes 39:54 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 39:54 "We own it. This is our dirt."

Luke Grimes 39:56 Meanwhile, someone moved there at some point.

Joe Rogan 39:58 Exactly.

Luke Grimes 39:59 You know?

Joe Rogan 40:00 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 40:00 Like, somewhere along the line, someone moved there, and all you did was stay.

Joe Rogan 40:03 Exactly.

Luke Grimes 40:03 You didn't do anything that cool.

Joe Rogan 40:04 Exactly.

Luke Grimes 40:05 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 40:05 Exactly. Exactly.

Luke Grimes 40:06 And that one guy, I, I can't go to bars there anymore because whatever that one idiot is is at the bar.

Joe Rogan 40:11 Of course.

Luke Grimes 40:12 And he can't wait to start a fight with me.

Joe Rogan 40:14 Right.

Luke Grimes 40:14 Just, like, can't wait to do it, 'cause, like, it's a win-win for him. You know-

Joe Rogan 40:17 Yeah

Luke Grimes 40:17 ... he gets to sue me or something. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 40:19 Right.

Luke Grimes 40:19 You know, but it's a lose-lose for me, so.

Joe Rogan 40:21 Well, it's just like his life is empty, and it's like all of a sudden there's purpose, and it's like, "You ruined Montana."

Luke Grimes 40:27 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 40:28 Fuck off.

Luke Grimes 40:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:30 Yeah. Or my favorite is when they call people colonizers. That's my favorite. Like, bro, if you don't live in Ethiopia, someone in your ancestor was a colonizer.

Luke Grimes 40:40 Oh, 100%.

Joe Rogan 40:40 Period.

Luke Grimes 40:41 Yeah. We all had to come from somewhere.

Joe Rogan 40:42 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 40:43 Also, isn't it, like, the most American thing ever is that I can choose where I wanna live?

Joe Rogan 40:47 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 40:48 That should be celebrated.

Joe Rogan 40:49 It should be, yeah.

Luke Grimes 40:50 Right?

Joe Rogan 40:50 The idea that, oh, we were here first, those are the same idiots that hate when a band becomes successful. It's like, "Oh, I knew them when they were underground. Now they sold out."

Luke Grimes 40:59 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 41:00 It's just, it's just a moron mentality.

Luke Grimes 41:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:01 You're always gonna have that no matter where you go. But Montanans are, like, fiercely proud of being from Montana.

Luke Grimes 41:07 Yeah. They'll always tell you what generation they are.

Joe Rogan 41:09 Right.

Luke Grimes 41:10 Which is really cool.

Joe Rogan 41:10 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 41:10 Third generation Montanan.

Joe Rogan 41:12 That's so silly.

Luke Grimes 41:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:14 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 41:14 And I'm not Montanan, but my son will be. You know?

Joe Rogan 41:17 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 41:17 He can say that he is-

Joe Rogan 41:18 Right

Luke Grimes 41:19 ... first generation.

Joe Rogan 41:19 Right. It's like an anchor baby. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 41:22 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 41:26 Yeah. He can go fly fishing, and no one's gonna give him a hard time.

Luke Grimes 41:28 That's right.

Joe Rogan 41:29 I was born here. Okay.

Luke Grimes 41:30 Yeah, you're good.

Joe Rogan 41:31 All right.

Luke Grimes 41:31 You're cool.

Joe Rogan 41:31 You got a hall pass.

Luke Grimes 41:32 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 41:33 Yeah, but, like, people that live in, like, that Yellowstone place, you know, that, um-

Luke Grimes 41:36 Yellowstone Club?

Joe Rogan 41:37 Yeah, that place.

Luke Grimes 41:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Like, those are, like, fake Montanans to Montanans.

Luke Grimes 41:40 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:40 I have a buddy who lives up there, and he was saying, "I don't know why the fuck anybody would live up there." I'm like, "'Cause it's awesome."

Luke Grimes 41:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:46 "What's wrong with you?"

Luke Grimes 41:47 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 41:47 It's still Montana. Like, let, let it go.

Luke Grimes 41:50 Right. They just had some problem with, uh, sewage being dumped into the river or something like that.

Joe Rogan 41:55 The Yellowstone Club did?

Luke Grimes 41:56 The Yellowstone Club, yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:57 Oh, God.

Luke Grimes 41:58 Yeah. The, the locals were very angry. And I don't know if that's locals, like, making some stuff up to sort of cause a problem, but they were saying that they were finding sewage from the Yellowstone Club in the, in the local river there.

Joe Rogan 42:08 Whoa.

Luke Grimes 42:09 Yeah, you have to look that up.

Joe Rogan 42:10 Oh, whoa. Yeah, that's not good. That's the problem with rich people.

Luke Grimes 42:15 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 42:16 [laughs] Rich people are like, "Fuck everybody else."

Luke Grimes 42:19 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 42:20 I haven't been to that place, but I heard it's awesome. And the views, I mean, I've seen photographs of it. God, the fucking views there are insane.

Luke Grimes 42:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:26 I have multiple friends that live in Montana, and the, the thing about it is, like, everybody will tell you, like, when you're surrounded by those mountains and you look out at them every day, it, like, centers you, and it humbles you.

Luke Grimes 42:39 That's exactly right

Joe Rogan 42:40 It's like the most spectacular natural art you're ever gonna see, and it's around you all the time.

Luke Grimes 42:45 And I drink my coffee every morning looking out the window, and it looks like a painting, and it never gets old. You know, if, if, if we need to go to the grocery store, I'll be like, "I'll do it," 'cause it's so fun to drive there. You know, you get out, you put some tunes on, it's the best thing ever. Versus, like, living in LA, to go anywhere was the worst thing ever.

Joe Rogan 43:03 Right.

Luke Grimes 43:04 Um, yeah. Everything's a pleasure up there, man. It's really, it's something. But if you, if you, if you need any sort of, like, fast pace or socialization, or if you're, like, trying to meet a babe or something-

Joe Rogan 43:14 Good luck [laughs]

Luke Grimes 43:15 ... it's not gonna happen. [laughs] There's no people dude.

Joe Rogan 43:18 Yeah. I get that. There's a little of that in Austin. They're upset that the Californians moved here.

Luke Grimes 43:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:25 They're upset. They're, a lot of people blamed me.

Luke Grimes 43:28 Oh.

Joe Rogan 43:28 And Elon.

Luke Grimes 43:29 Sure.

Joe Rogan 43:29 They blamed us for, for moving here and ruining Austin. Like, sorry we made it more awesome.

Luke Grimes 43:35 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 43:35 Fucking pussies. Shut your mouth. It's, it's all the same thing. It's, like, people that want credit for being here first. Like, fuck off. Now you have more restaurants, way more comedy. There's, like, seven comedy clubs on my street now. On the street where my club is, there's seven comedy clubs now.

Luke Grimes 43:50 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 43:51 It's, like, one of the, the big hubs of live comedy in the world now.

Luke Grimes 43:55 Did it have it at all before?

Joe Rogan 43:57 It had a couple places. There was a place, uh, called Cap City that actually went under before the pandemic. Or actually, like, right at the beginning of the pandemic. When I got here, it was for sale, and so I was looking at that place to buy it, and but it didn't work out. And then there was another, there's another place that's been around forever called the Velveeta Room. It's a real small room. I think it seats, like, 100 or so. And then, you know, I think there was maybe a couple other bars that maybe had comedy, and there was, like, a small scene of some comedians. But nothing like what it is now. Like, it's not even, not even comparable. I mean, there's, like, 17, 18 world-class comics that live here now.

Luke Grimes 44:35 Wow.

Joe Rogan 44:35 It's crazy.

Luke Grimes 44:36 Man, talk about stage fright. I think that is, that would be the hardest art form.

Joe Rogan 44:41 It's scary.

Luke Grimes 44:41 Just getting up, you have no help. There's nothing to hide behind.

Joe Rogan 44:44 Right.

Luke Grimes 44:44 There's no music.

Joe Rogan 44:45 Right.

Luke Grimes 44:45 There's, like, you know, it's just silence and you and a microphone.

Joe Rogan 44:49 You can't just get into your tune and fucking just play-

Luke Grimes 44:52 No, yeah

Joe Rogan 44:52 ... and close your eyes. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 44:54 Yeah. No, there was a, there was a film actually one time that I was attached to, to play a stand-up comedian, and I, I promised the director that if we got our funding and got the green light to go, that I'd go do it. That I'd actually go out and, like, work up 15 minutes and just, you know, do it until I understood what it was like. And that movie fell through, and I was very, very happy about that [laughs] 'cause I didn't want to do it.

Joe Rogan 45:18 It's hard.

Luke Grimes 45:19 I bet, man.

Joe Rogan 45:19 It's, it's confusing 'cause the people are just talking. You're like, "Why is that hard to do? Everybody talks." You know? Like, everybody could tell a story. Everybody could... And it seems easy to do-

Luke Grimes 45:31 No

Joe Rogan 45:31 ... until you do it, and then you're like, "Oh, this is..." But I was hooked right away, 'cause ri- I d- I sucked. The first night I did, I bombed. But I was like, I got a couple of laughs on some things, and I was like, "I think I can figure this out." But I was, like I said, I was more scared than when I was fighting. I was more scared before, like, a big fight. Like, it was weird. I was like, "Why am I ner-" Uh, it didn't make any sense.

Luke Grimes 45:56 Huh.

Joe Rogan 45:56 My friend Whitney Cummings explained it to me. She said, "People have this fear of public speaking because in tribal societies back in the day, the only time you spoke in front of a large group of people was when you're being judged because they were gonna kill you."

Luke Grimes 46:11 Oh, interesting.

Joe Rogan 46:12 Right.

Luke Grimes 46:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:13 Doesn't that make sense?

Luke Grimes 46:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:14 Yeah. So, like, if you're in front of, uh, in front of other people, they're all like, "Ugh, what did he do?"

Luke Grimes 46:20 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 46:20 You know? So you have to like, "Guys, I didn't steal the tomatoes." [laughs] Like...

Luke Grimes 46:25 Yeah. Yeah, I never thought about that.

Joe Rogan 46:26 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 46:26 That is weird.

Joe Rogan 46:27 That's what it is.

Luke Grimes 46:28 Yeah, no place to hide, man. I don't know. That, that sounds scary. And especially if, like, it starts going bad.

Joe Rogan 46:33 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 46:33 Like, if you start to bomb.

Joe Rogan 46:34 Mm-hmm.

Luke Grimes 46:36 Is there, is there any way out of that, or is it-

Joe Rogan 46:38 People have recovered, yeah. The people have started off bombing and then pulled themselves out of it. I've done it a couple of times. Most of the time when I'm bombing, I'm bombing forever. Like, but- [laughs]

Luke Grimes 46:46 You're going down.

Joe Rogan 46:48 But the, there's a good to that, right? The good is you have to reexamine your material, and you... Every time in my career in the, like, the early days when I bombed, I always got way better afterwards because I was like, "Whatever the fuck that was, I don't wanna experience that again." And I really focused and really, really wrote like crazy and went over recordings and buttoned down and trimmed things and changed things around. And you, you need losses. Losses are very important. They're important in fighting.

Luke Grimes 47:17 Mm.

Joe Rogan 47:17 They're important in co- They're important in ev- They're important in life. Like, uh, one of my kids just had a breakup recently, and I had a conversation with her. I go, "I know this sucks, but this is actually important. Like, it has to happen." And I told her, like, about, like, the first time a girl broke up with me when I was 17. It was devastating.

Luke Grimes 47:34 Oh, the worst.

Joe Rogan 47:35 Oh, it was-

Luke Grimes 47:35 It's the worst feeling

Joe Rogan 47:36 ... couldn't believe, my life was over.

Luke Grimes 47:38 Over.

Joe Rogan 47:38 I'm only 17. I can, I'm never gonna recover. I'm like, it's so important because you realize, like, as time passes, you understand that this is just a moment in time, and there's other people you're gonna meet, and li- And it's just, you have to develop some resiliency, some emotional resiliency.

Luke Grimes 47:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:57 And so you have to experience that, and you also have to realize that, you know, people, they don't know what they're doing either. Like, boys don't know what they're doing. Girls don't know what they're doing. They're kind of figuring it out as they go along, and people break up, and they make up, and these are these lessons that you have to learn in life. And loss is important 'cause it makes you understand, like, why'd this person get sick of me? Why am I annoying? Why, [laughs] what-

Luke Grimes 48:21 Yeah

Joe Rogan 48:21 ... you know, am I selfish? Like, what is it? Like, what is wrong with me? You know, why, you know, why am I picking these people that are gonna break my heart? Why don't I adjust? Why don't I... Like, maybe I should spend some time alone and figure out what the fuck is wrong with me or figure out who I am. And those moments where you have to kind of go through things and figure 'em out-

Luke Grimes 48:42 Yeah

Joe Rogan 48:42 ... they're so important for you in life. And for a comic, bombing can oftentimes be one of the best, like, motivating factors to take you to another level in your career.

Luke Grimes 48:52 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:53 Or wreck your confidence forever.

Luke Grimes 48:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:57 Just like fighting.

Luke Grimes 48:58 Yeah, I was gonna say, it happens to fighters a lot.

Joe Rogan 48:59 Oh, yeah. Some fighters lose, and they're never the same again. And some fighters lose, and then a new version of them emerges in the next fight. You're like, "Whoa, this dude dialed in."

Luke Grimes 49:09 Who would be a good example of that?

Joe Rogan 49:10 Charles Oliveira.

Luke Grimes 49:12 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:12 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 49:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:13 He's the best example of it, because for the longest time, everybody thought he was a quitter, like he would just break, and now he's, like, one of the scariest motherfuckers alive.

Luke Grimes 49:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:21 You know, especially this last weekend, the fight with Max Holloway.

Luke Grimes 49:24 Amazing.

Joe Rogan 49:24 Like, good Lord. Like, Max Holloway was a two to one favorite in that fight, and he got shut out.

Luke Grimes 49:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:31 Like, literally every round was a dominant performance by Oliveira. It was crazy.

Luke Grimes 49:36 It's funny, people complaining about that fight, too. It's like the-

Joe Rogan 49:39 'Cause it was on the ground.

Luke Grimes 49:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:40 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 49:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:41 My daughter complained about it.

Luke Grimes 49:42 Did she [laughs] ?

Joe Rogan 49:43 Yeah. She's like, "The main event was so boring." I'm like...

Luke Grimes 49:46 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 49:47 "You're a casual."

Luke Grimes 49:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:47 "My kid's a casual."

Luke Grimes 49:48 People love a slugfest, don't they?

Joe Rogan 49:50 Oh, yeah. They do. They do. They do love a slugfest. Yeah. But, you know, that's, that's the sport. The sport is like, sometimes it's gonna be exciting, and sometimes it's just gonna be a ground battle. But for me, it was exciting because I was trying to figure out whether Max could get up, what he could do to prevent from getting taken down, and whether or not he could figure out a way to reverse the position and get on top. And, you know, when you're watching, like, a guy dominate a world champion like that, it's just, you're in marvel. You're like, "Wow, this is crazy. I can't believe he's able to do this. This is nuts."

Luke Grimes 50:28 I wish I would've started jujitsu when I was small, 'cause I tried, like, you know, late 30s, and I was like... It was kinda like the golf thing, where I was like, well, first of all, it's way cooler than golf. But I was like, "The, the amount of time it's gonna take me until this doesn't feel like being smothered-

Joe Rogan 50:42 Yeah

Luke Grimes 50:42 ... is gonna be a long time, and I don't know if I have... I sh- I don't know if I can start now." You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 50:47 It takes forever.

Luke Grimes 50:48 I'm sure. Yeah, like, it's, how long would it take for, like, a grown person until it, until you actually know what's going on intuitively, and it doesn't feel like chaos? Like how long-

Joe Rogan 50:58 Well, there's, there's layers of knowing intuitively. Like, there's guys, like, even as a black belt, there's guys that I could roll with, and I would just get humiliated-

Luke Grimes 51:09 Yeah

Joe Rogan 51:09 ... 'cause they're just so much better than I am. Like my friend Gordon Ryan, that's his belt up there, Abu Dhabi Champion.

Luke Grimes 51:15 Oh, cool.

Joe Rogan 51:15 He's the greatest of all time, like, and he's 30.

Luke Grimes 51:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:18 The, the greatest grappler that's ever lived.

Luke Grimes 51:19 The guy looks like He-Man.

Joe Rogan 51:20 But he's a, he's a freak.

Luke Grimes 51:21 He's amazing.

Joe Rogan 51:21 But he trains 365 days a year. He does not take breaks off. Christmas, fuck you. It's your birthday, fuck you. Happy Easter, fuck you.

Luke Grimes 51:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:32 He trains every day, and he trains, like, twice a day, three times a day. It's like, that is the only way to be the greatest. And, you know, and he's obviously a lot bigger than me, but it's not the best example. But he does that to heavyweight black belts, just humiliates them. They have n- he writes down on a piece of paper what he's gonna do to them and hands it to the judges before the fight. So he's like, "I'm gonna triangle this guy."

Luke Grimes 51:55 [laughs] That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 51:56 And he, and he's doing it to world champions.

Luke Grimes 51:57 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 51:58 Like, guys who have been, like, multiple time world champions.

Luke Grimes 52:01 Wow.

Joe Rogan 52:01 And he's just predicting what he's gonna do, and then he passes on every submission until he can get them in that. Like, he's having fun. He's like, he's playing with his food. You know, so there's levels to stuff. So to be competent in rolling, you could get there in a couple years, depending on how often you train. Like, Bourdain got really serious at 58.

Luke Grimes 52:21 Wow.

Joe Rogan 52:21 At 58.

Luke Grimes 52:22 That's when he started?

Joe Rogan 52:22 That's when he started, yeah.

Luke Grimes 52:24 Oh.

Joe Rogan 52:25 When I first met him, he wasn't training at all. When I first met him, um, he came to the UFC. His wife was really into the UFC, and she was, she had just started doing jujitsu. And, um, she was getting him into the sport, and he really got interested in it, and then she took him to jujitsu classes, and like, "Fuck, this is actually kind of fascinating."

Luke Grimes 52:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:45 And he had never done any kind of athletic things in his whole life. And then, like, when he was 60, there's a photo of him, like, in his 60s, and he's walking down the street with his... He'd gotten divorced, and he was dating some new girl, and he's got this six-pack, and he looks shredded. And when I, when I first met him, he was, like, doughy-

Luke Grimes 53:04 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 53:04 ... and he had a thumb ring, and he was like-

Luke Grimes 53:05 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 53:05 ... you know, a chef and, you know, was into drinking. And he just became a, a jujitsu addict, and he was training every fucking day, and sometimes twice a day. He would do a private lesson, and then he would take a class every day.

Luke Grimes 53:18 Wow.

Joe Rogan 53:18 Yeah, he got a... And then he would... He told me he was taking his, like... When we were hunting in Montana, he, we were on the ground in Montana. He wanted to, like, learn some stuff.

Luke Grimes 53:28 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 53:28 So I was explaining him cer- but, like, I'm like, "When you go for a darce, there's a way to get, there's a thing called the Japanese neck tie," and I was explaining to him on the dirt. I was like-

Luke Grimes 53:36 You guys all camo'd out doing jujitsu? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 53:39 Yes, on the ground.

Luke Grimes 53:40 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 53:41 But, but he's like, he was so interested in it that he was, he was, like, constantly asking questions. And he had guys that were in the crew that had also gotten interested in jujitsu because of him. So, like, while he was there filming his show, he also went down and was training. He found a, a local jujitsu gym, and he went down there and trained while he was there. He would train everywhere on the road.

Luke Grimes 54:00 Wow.

Joe Rogan 54:00 Yeah, he would go to, like, foreign countries and train. Like, he didn't even speak the language, and, you know, he's this fucking famous guy from TV, and he's just rolling in there with, like, normal people and getting strangled.

Luke Grimes 54:12 58, man. That's incredible.

Joe Rogan 54:13 58.

Luke Grimes 54:13 I have no excuse. I'm, I'm gonna start.

Joe Rogan 54:15 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 54:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:16 Do it.

Luke Grimes 54:16 I wanna put it in front of my kid, for sure.

Joe Rogan 54:18 Oh, definitely. Definitely.

Luke Grimes 54:19 I mean, as soon as he can do it, I want him to try.

Joe Rogan 54:21 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 54:21 You know, it's if he likes it or not, but it's like, I feel like it's one of those things, it's so good to connect with other people in that way from such a young age.

Joe Rogan 54:29 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 54:29 It gives you confidence. And then if you, if you love it, if, if he has a passion for it, you don't have to worry about him becoming a drug addict or something-

Joe Rogan 54:36 Right

Luke Grimes 54:36 ... because you can't be both. Like-

Joe Rogan 54:37 Right

Luke Grimes 54:38 ... you know, there's a few things where, like, you can't be both.

Joe Rogan 54:40 Right.

Luke Grimes 54:40 You've gotta really give that everything.

Joe Rogan 54:42 Also, it becomes, like, a real source of confidence for kids. If they know that they can fight, like, they can avoid fights. People won't wanna fight them, 'cause they'll have a reputation. They can-It's very good to know. It's also, like, y-you can get out of things just by knowing how to fight because you know, like, what people are doing and what they're not doing. You don't say anything stupid because you're trying to trick a person into thinking that you're a tough guy. There's a quiet confidence that comes with these guys. And also, if something does happen, most people have zero idea of how to fight.

Luke Grimes 55:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:17 Zero. And they think they're just gonna swing and hit you in the face, and you see all this shit coming way before it happens. Like, you see them moving their right foot back. Like, oh, God.

Luke Grimes 55:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:26 Like, here we go. Like, it's, it's like they're playing a game, but they don't even know the rules. Like, they don't even know the skill. They don't know anything, but they've seen it on TV, and they think they're gonna be able to pull it off, especially if they're drunk.

Luke Grimes 55:38 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:39 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 55:39 There's a whole, uh, Instagram channel that's, uh, dedicated to fights on 6th Street here. Have you seen this?

Joe Rogan 55:44 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 55:44 It's amazing, dude.

Joe Rogan 55:46 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 55:46 It's incredible.

Joe Rogan 55:47 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 55:47 You can just watch it for hours. It's-

Joe Rogan 55:48 I've seen a bunch, yeah.

Luke Grimes 55:50 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 55:50 A lot of them taking place right in front of my club. Fights on the street are so scary because guys fall, and they hit their head. That's, it's, that's how people die. Peop-people die where they get punched in the jaw, and they go out, and they just bang their head off the ground.

Luke Grimes 56:04 Oof. Or there's a lot of people out there that'll, when you're already out, step on your head-

Joe Rogan 56:08 Oh, yeah

Luke Grimes 56:09 ... or kick your head.

Joe Rogan 56:09 Stomp you.

Luke Grimes 56:09 We see that a lot.

Joe Rogan 56:10 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 56:11 That's... y-I don't understand anyone who has the impulse to do that.

Joe Rogan 56:16 Right.

Luke Grimes 56:16 That's crazy to me. Like, if you've won the fight already, move on.

Joe Rogan 56:19 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 56:19 You know, that's, that's scary stuff.

Joe Rogan 56:21 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 56:21 That's evil.

Joe Rogan 56:22 A lot of some people, they get red with rage, and they lose their mind, and then they wind up in jail for the rest of their life, and they're just sitting in a cell going, "What the fuck? One night, drunk, doing something stupid, and now I'm here forever."

Luke Grimes 56:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:34 It's crazy.

Luke Grimes 56:35 And there's... And someone's dead.

Joe Rogan 56:37 And someone's dead.

Luke Grimes 56:37 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 56:37 And someone's parents are crying, and someone's-

Luke Grimes 56:40 Oof

Joe Rogan 56:40 ... missing their father. Like, fuck, man.

Luke Grimes 56:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:43 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 56:43 Because he looked at my girlfriend.

Joe Rogan 56:44 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 56:45 That's crazy. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 56:46 I know. People are retarded. Yeah, the best thing about fighting is it teaches you not to fight. Very few of the, of my friends that know how to fight have ever been in street fights. It almost never happens.

Luke Grimes 56:56 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:57 It's just like, it's just, it's such a stupid thing to do.

Luke Grimes 57:00 How many times in your life have you had to use it, like, practically in a real-life situation?

Joe Rogan 57:05 Never.

Luke Grimes 57:05 Really?

Joe Rogan 57:06 Never. Not since I was in, like, high school. I've, I've never been in a fight fight, like an actual fight since high school. I'll avoid them.

Luke Grimes 57:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:12 I'm not... Like, if, if I know I can fuck you up, and I can just get away, I'm like, "I'll just get away." I don't need to prove.

Luke Grimes 57:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:19 Like, what's the point? Also, here's the thing. People always say, "Oh, if I could fight, I would fuck people up." Great, and then they're gonna come back and kill you, you know?

Luke Grimes 57:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:27 And then they're gonna run you over-

Luke Grimes 57:29 Yeah

Joe Rogan 57:29 ... or shoot you or... Don't be stupid. Like-

Luke Grimes 57:32 Yeah

Joe Rogan 57:32 ... it's, it's pointless. It's pointless, you know? I've had situations where I thought I was gonna have to fuck somebody up, and I didn't. But y-you have to have self-control. You have to, you know, you have to be able to know... And also, like, most people, like, if they wanna fight you, all you have to do is kinda like put your hands up and move a little bit. Like, they're not gonna be able to do anything. They'll be swinging, and you're just like, "Come on, man."

Luke Grimes 57:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:53 "What are we, what are we doing here?"

Luke Grimes 57:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:54 "What are we doing?" And it's, it's... The only time people get hurt is when you engage. Like, you're both swinging at each other. If someone's swinging at you, and they don't know what they're doing, they have almost no chance of hurting me.

Luke Grimes 58:06 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:06 Like, zero. Unless I'm asleep-

Luke Grimes 58:09 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 58:09 ... unless I'm really drunk, you have almost zero chance of hitting me.

Luke Grimes 58:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:13 Unless you really know what to do. If you really know how to fight, most of those people who really know how to fight aren't fighting people anyway.

Luke Grimes 58:18 Aren't street fighting, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:19 Yeah. And I'm not gonna provoke anybody. I'm not gonna start a fight. So it's like, I mean, I know a few of my friends that have had to fuck people up. Gordon had to beat the fuck out of a homeless guy in Austin.

Luke Grimes 58:29 What?

Joe Rogan 58:29 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 58:30 No way.

Joe Rogan 58:30 Oh, yeah, some homeless guy fucked with his girlfriend.

Luke Grimes 58:32 He picked the wrong dude. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 58:33 Boy, did he. And G-Gordon tried to get out of it. But the, the guy wouldn't, and he put him to sleep.

Luke Grimes 58:39 Wow.

Joe Rogan 58:39 Yeah. Put him to sleep and then called the cops, and the cops came and picked the guy up. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 58:45 [laughs] Humiliated.

Joe Rogan 58:48 Oh, my G- the, the wrong guy.

Luke Grimes 58:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:50 But that shows you how fucking stupid people are 'cause Gordon's a gorilla. He's this big, giant, 240-pound jacked dude who's, uh, you know, I don't know how many time jujitsu world champion, and then some fucking idiot-

Luke Grimes 59:04 Right

Joe Rogan 59:04 ... you know, probably high out of his mind-

Luke Grimes 59:06 Yeah, drugs are bad

Joe Rogan 59:07 ... picks a fight with him.

Luke Grimes 59:08 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 59:08 I think he picked a fight with his girlfriend first. I think he fucked with his girlfriend and fucked with another guy, and just a problem, just some guys are just nuts, man.

Luke Grimes 59:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:16 And, you know, mental health issues and... But fights are stupid. They're, they're so pointless. You know, organized fights, it's a different thing. I mean, that's high-level problem-solving with dire physical consequences. That's what I call it. That's what a real fight is, like a, like, we both agree we're gonna-

Luke Grimes 59:33 Yeah

Joe Rogan 59:33 ... make a certain weight. We're gonna meet Se-September 7th. Here it is. That's a different thing.

Luke Grimes 59:39 It's a beautiful thing.

Joe Rogan 59:39 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 59:39 It's like a chess match, and you can't breathe, you know?

Joe Rogan 59:42 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 59:42 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 59:43 Yeah, that's a good way to put it, yeah. But in chess, the, the pieces can only move a certain way.

Luke Grimes 59:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:48 In jujitsu, what's nuts is there's, like, so many different variations, and then you add in striking and wrestling, and like, oh, my God. It's so co- I love it. I, I'll never get tired of watching MMA. It's the most exciting thing ever for me. I like other sports. Like, I've really grown to love football since I moved to Texas, and I, I can watch a, a good basketball game. Baseball's hard. But to me, it's all just downtime unless fights are on.

Luke Grimes 1:00:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:14 If fights are on, I'm not watching anything else. Like, I've been at football games, like at UT games, with the UFC on my phone-

Luke Grimes 1:00:21 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 ... sitting there while I'm watching the UFC. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:00:25 Man, I wish I... I have football envy. I w- my, I went to a Christian school in Ohio, and we didn't have a football team. And I feel like if you don't, like, grow up around it in high school, you just don't understand, like, the nuance.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:00:35 I understand the rules, and I get it, but I just, I don't know. I don't love it like people do, and I wish I did. I wish it d- the stakes just, I don't understand it. I don't understandThe team sport thing as much as I do, like I love MMA, I love watching UFC because it's like the stakes are so high.

Joe Rogan 1:00:51 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:00:51 There's something about one-on-one, who's the better person today? You know, that's, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:00:56 ... you can't, uh, there's no one to blame it on.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:00:58 It's just one person.

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 It's a different thing. Like, I, uh, have grown to love it living here. My wife is a big football fan, and so she got me into it, and then I've gone to a bunch of UT games, and they're fucking fun, man. And it's like when someone scores a touchdown, everybody wins. Like, the whole team cheer... Like, the whole audience, like 80,000 people, "Ahhh!" And there's something to that.

Luke Grimes 1:01:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 'Cause, like, when fighters fight and someone gets knocked out, like, people cheer and it's exciting, but like, you know, you never know who's... Like, if you're watching Justin Gaethje fight Max Holloway, uh, uh, I don't know who's for Justin Gaethje, who's for Max Holloway. You look out there, like, everybody's wearing UT colors, right?

Luke Grimes 1:01:39 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:39 Or they're wearing, you know, Oklahoma colors. Like, it's like you've got your colors. Everybody, you got your outfits. Everybody's pumped. They, they cheer when this guy scores. They boo when that guy scores. It's, like, more of a team... Everybody wins together.

Luke Grimes 1:01:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 Whereas, like, with MMA, you know, you, there's, there's, it's like you're just watching an individual. You're appreciating an individual who's a rare human being. The type of human being that become a, becomes a guy who could become an MMA world champion, that is a truly special human. Like, the amount of dedication and dri- and the amount of focus and discipline and the courage that you have to have to get in your fucking underwear and stand there with a cup on-

Luke Grimes 1:02:22 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:02:22 ... with little tiny pads on your gloves in front of another savage, like another trained killer who's been training for 18 weeks for this one moment, and they bolt the door shut to the cage. And then the referee goes, "Fighter, are you ready? Fighter, are you ready? Let's go."

Luke Grimes 1:02:37 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:02:37 And then the whole world is watching. You're surrounded by 20,000 people and lights and cheering, and you l- you're trying to keep your shit together-

Luke Grimes 1:02:46 Oh, man

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 ... and you're getting kicked and-

Luke Grimes 1:02:48 How do you sleep the night before that? That would be my thing. I don't think I could-

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 It's hard.

Luke Grimes 1:02:51 I wouldn't be able to sleep.

Joe Rogan 1:02:52 It's hard. I would always get sick. I would get sick before tournaments 'cause I wasn't sleeping.

Luke Grimes 1:02:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 And I was training really hard, and I d- I didn't even take vitamins back then. I was a dumbass. But, 'cause I was young. I stopped fighting when I was 22. But for a lot of these guys, it is hard. It's really hard to just relax, and then they grow to learn how to relax, and then, then it's really scary. Then it's really hard to beat them because you c- a lot of guys are terrified before they even get... Like Anderson Silva in his prime, he would win fights at the weigh-ins 'cause they would just, like, look at him, and he would be standing there staring at you, and you're like, "Oh my God, I have to fight this guy tomorrow. Oh my, what have I done? Why am I doing this with my life?" [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:03:32 Imagine doing that stare down with Mike Tyson back in the day.

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 Oh, God.

Luke Grimes 1:03:34 That'd be the most terrifying thing.

Joe Rogan 1:03:35 Oh, dude, it was. It was. There would be guys who looked like they were gonna faint when the referee was giving them instructions. You know, I remember he fought Bruce Seldon, and Bruce Seldon, who was a beast, man, he's a fucking tank of a man, and he looked like he was gonna faint w- during the stare down.

Luke Grimes 1:03:52 I can't imagine.

Joe Rogan 1:03:53 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:03:54 Yeah, he was the scariest of all time, I think.

Joe Rogan 1:03:56 He was. He was absolutely the scariest of all time. The scariest boxer that I've ever seen in my life. And there was a, a period of time between, like, 1986 and, like, probably, like, around 1990 where he was just fucking running through everybody. It was so... You would buy the pay-per-view knowing that the guy was gonna get knocked out and hoping that you'd get your money's worth. 'Cause you, the pay-per-view was, like, whatever it was, 50 bucks or something. You know, like, if it's, like, 30 seconds, you're like, "Aw, that is bullshit." [laughs] People would get upset that the, the pay-per-view was so quick.

Luke Grimes 1:04:28 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 But, I mean, that's what you were, that's what you were signing up for. And those kind of guys, I mean, when you got a guy that's got every box checked, discipline, focus, training, genetics, everything all together, mindset. [sighs]

Luke Grimes 1:04:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 He would beat guys, like, long before they ever got in there 'cause they knew that they were, they were fighting this demon, this guy that just was so much better than everybody else, and you, there's no way you could catch up to him.

Luke Grimes 1:04:58 No. W- was it true about his... Wasn't it, like, his trainer died, and then it kind of, he lost the whole-

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 Yeah. Well, his trainer was Cus D'Amato, and Cus D'Amato was a legendary figure in boxing. He had trained Floyd Patterson, um, um, Jose Torres. He, he, he trained, uh, like, a lot of, like, legit world champions, and he was also a hypnotist. And, uh, he adopted-

Luke Grimes 1:05:27 Wait, what?

Joe Rogan 1:05:27 Yeah, he was a hypnotist. Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:05:28 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:05:29 Well, he was really into the mental side of fighting. He was more almost, like, as much of a psychologist as he was a boxing trainer, was all about tempering their mind-

Luke Grimes 1:05:39 Oh

Joe Rogan 1:05:39 ... and getting them ready. Like, he would tell Mike Tyson, "You don't exist. Only the task exists." He would say crazy shit to him, and he-

Luke Grimes 1:05:46 Wow

Joe Rogan 1:05:46 ... adopted him when he was 13. So Mike was 13, and he came from Bedford-Stuy in Brooklyn, was a horrible neighborhood, so his whole life was, like, crime and violence and no love and just terrible. And then all of a sudden, this man took him under his wing, who was also a legendary figure in boxing. Legendary. Like, he was, like, he was the guru. And, uh, you know, he, he basically, it was like the perfect storm. And then he was also, his manager was this guy Jim Jacobs, and Jim Jacobs was not just a manager, he was a historian of boxing, and he had this incredible library of all the great fighters. So he would watch film, you know, like fucking [rolls tongue] those things.

Luke Grimes 1:06:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 He'd, like, have a projection screen, and he would watch film of, like, Jack Johnson and Stanley Ketchel and, you know, Sandy Saddler and all these great fighters from back in the day. Roberto Duran. He would just sit there and absorb all these amazing fights. And when you can wa- like, that's one of the great things about todayLike, especially with MMA, like if you look at the fights from 1993 and the fights from t- 2026, the skill level is like magnitudes greater because all these guys have grown up watching all these fights now. Because from the time that MMA existed, it was on television, you could watch it on YouTube after that, and it was like there was always fights that you could see, so you could see-

Luke Grimes 1:07:12 Hmm

Joe Rogan 1:07:12 ... what guys were doing, so you had an understanding of the level. So kids would grow up imitating their favorite fighters.

Luke Grimes 1:07:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 You know, they'd grow up, you know, imitating Jon Jones and imitating Cain Velasquez and all these guys, and you would y- you, you, you could absorb a lot just by seeing the elite level of these guys. And Mike Tyson was one of the only guys back then that had that ability.

Luke Grimes 1:07:35 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 1:07:35 Because he had this immense library of the greatest fights of all time. And so he would be training with one of the greatest trainers that ever lived, who was probably the greatest psychological trainer that ever lived. Also, the guy was hypnotizing him at 13, programming him to be this destruction machine, and then he was watching fights. So he was watching all these guys, Jack Johnson-

Luke Grimes 1:07:56 Wow

Joe Rogan 1:07:56 ... and all these, like, great old school champions, and Jack Dempsey, and like, and he just absorbed it all.

Luke Grimes 1:08:03 Incredible.

Joe Rogan 1:08:04 And then, and he would get in that ring with fucking no socks on and no robe, and just like a throwback. He was like one of... He was, like he absorbed the energy of those old great fighters, the Sugar Ray Robinsons and the hardcore old school guys who would fight, like, once a week, once every two weeks.

Luke Grimes 1:08:23 Dude, is that how often they were doing it back then?

Joe Rogan 1:08:25 Oh, they fought so many times. I think before Sugar Ray Robinson ever lost a fight, he was 90 and 0, something crazy like that.

Luke Grimes 1:08:33 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:08:33 Yeah. Just some-

Luke Grimes 1:08:36 90 and 0 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 ... 90. Fucking crazy.

Luke Grimes 1:08:37 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 1:08:38 Just crazy. Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:08:39 That's wild.

Joe Rogan 1:08:40 Those... And y- to be able to watch that kind of stuff when you're young, you absorb it, you know?

Luke Grimes 1:08:45 Sure. It's like kids that play instruments now.

Joe Rogan 1:08:48 Sure.

Luke Grimes 1:08:49 I mean, you'll see an eight-year-old online who's better than any drummer in the '70s.

Joe Rogan 1:08:53 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:08:53 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:08:54 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:08:54 They're, they're just how quick they can, how quickly they can get better now.

Joe Rogan 1:08:57 Oh, yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:08:57 Because they have access to everyone all the time.

Joe Rogan 1:09:00 Mm-hmm.

Luke Grimes 1:09:00 So cool.

Joe Rogan 1:09:01 I would imagine that's like that with all sports now. But, you know, like you can, like you could go back and wa- if you're a basketball player, you could w- go back and watch Jordan, you can watch Larry Bird, you can watch, you know, LeBron, Kobe. You can watch all these great basketball players and see what they're doing. Whereas if you were young, you know, in the '60s or '70s, like you only got to see the people you saw.

Luke Grimes 1:09:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:22 You ge- you were as good as the people you were around, which is why it was so important to be a part of, like, a great program in high school and college, 'cause then you'd be around, like... And then you'd go to the states and see how these guys are doing. Oh, these guys are better than us. Like, I remember that from wrestling. Like, the only time when I was wrestling in high school, the only time you'd get to see, like, really good guys, you'd go somewhere else. Like I w- I was, uh, I went to school in Newton, Newton South High School, and we had good wrestlers in our program, and I thought they were good until I would go to the states, and you go, "Oh my God, these fucking guys, they're, these kids are going to camps every year." They were wrestling 365 days a year. They're, like, obsessed with it. And then if you go to, like, Iowa or somewhere like that, like good Lord, it's a fucking religion there. I mean, they've been doing that since they were babies. They've been-

Luke Grimes 1:10:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:05 You know, it's like y- you, you, you, you absorb what you see, and you, your brain r- rises to the level of the competition that you see.

Luke Grimes 1:10:15 The last time I was really into a boxer was Loma.

Joe Rogan 1:10:18 Oh, man.

Luke Grimes 1:10:18 I love watching him, man.

Joe Rogan 1:10:19 Oh, dude.

Luke Grimes 1:10:20 He's got a cool story too. Didn't his dad make him do ballet for a while or?

Joe Rogan 1:10:23 Ukrainian dance-

Luke Grimes 1:10:24 Is that what it was?

Joe Rogan 1:10:24 ... for two years.

Luke Grimes 1:10:25 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:10:25 Pulled him out of boxing for two years.

Luke Grimes 1:10:27 That guy moves like it doesn't look real.

Joe Rogan 1:10:30 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:10:30 Like people shouldn't be able to move like that.

Joe Rogan 1:10:32 The Matrix, they call him.

Luke Grimes 1:10:33 Beautiful.

Joe Rogan 1:10:33 Yeah. Yeah, he would do footwork that no one had even considered doing before. The w- the movement, the slipping to the side, and the angles, and the... His ability to change direction was crazy, 'cause he would be here, and then he'd be here, and then you're swinging, and he's here, and he's hitting you.

Luke Grimes 1:10:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:10:48 And he, ba, ba, bang. And he also was way smaller than everybody. He was way smaller than everybody. Like, he was supposed to be 126-pound fighter, and he went all the way up to the 140-pound division.

Luke Grimes 1:10:58 Are there, like, a lot of younger guys doing that sort of style now coming up? Or is it, is that, like, a one-off?

Joe Rogan 1:11:04 It's kind of a one-off. Usyk does it, but Usyk was trained by Lomachenko's father.

Luke Grimes 1:11:10 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:11:10 They were trained by the same guy.

Luke Grimes 1:11:11 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:11:11 So Usyk is essentially like a heavyweight Lomachenko.

Luke Grimes 1:11:15 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:11:15 That's why he moves so much.

Luke Grimes 1:11:16 It's dangerous.

Joe Rogan 1:11:17 [laughs] That guy's a freak. He's a freak. He's a f- uh, he's a pleasure to watch. Watching that guy, I mean, he's beating guys that are so much bigger than him. When, when he beat Tyson Fury, Tyson Fury was, like, 280 pounds.

Luke Grimes 1:11:30 Phew.

Joe Rogan 1:11:30 And he's, like, a cruiserweight. He was really a 200-pound guy that blew up to s- to compete against heavyweights.

Luke Grimes 1:11:36 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:11:36 He's much smaller than those guys, but he was so fast and so... And s- just his un- his pattern recognition, his understanding of boxing is just elite, like so many levels above everybody else.

Luke Grimes 1:11:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:48 And he's 38. Like, at 38, you're supposed to be done.

Luke Grimes 1:11:51 Supposed to, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:52 No, 38-

Luke Grimes 1:11:53 Wow

Joe Rogan 1:11:53 ... he's in his fucking prime.

Luke Grimes 1:11:55 Amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:11:55 Also clean life, clean living, like serious Christian, like very, very religious, you know, doesn't, doesn't party, doesn't fuck around, you know, and just trains with, like, rigid discipline.

Luke Grimes 1:12:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:08 That Soviet-style discipline, the Ukrainian discipline, like those guys, like, um, their program over there, like you see it, like in Dmitry Bivol and a lot of the other, like, Soviet-style boxers. They have, like, a very comprehensive technical program that they put their fighters under. There's a sty- like Bivol's the, the best example of that style. It's such a fucking difficult style 'cause it's so movement based, and a lot of, like, American fighters were kind of rigid in their footwork and moving forward just trying to land the big shots, and like Bivol's just moving around you all the time, popping you, and like, ugh.

Luke Grimes 1:12:43 Yeah. Sort of like the Dagestani guys in the MMA, right?

Joe Rogan 1:12:46 Mm-hmm.

Luke Grimes 1:12:46 Same thing.

Joe Rogan 1:12:47 Oh, yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:12:48 It's like you're not gonna beat those guys because it's all they do.

Joe Rogan 1:12:50 Bro, they're in-

Luke Grimes 1:12:51 They live, eat, and breathe it

Joe Rogan 1:12:52 ... they're in, um, Muay Thai now.There's this kid that, uh, I- I'm obsessed with. He's 22 years old. His name is Asadulla Im- Imangaziev. I don't wanna fuck it up. Uh, Asadulla Imangaziev. He's a fucking freak, man. He's 22 years old, and he's destroying world champions in Muay Thai. Just killing them.

Luke Grimes 1:13:14 He's Dagestani?

Joe Rogan 1:13:14 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:13:15 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 1:13:16 So the Dagestanis-

Luke Grimes 1:13:16 Oh, great

Joe Rogan 1:13:17 ... are taking over striking too now.

Luke Grimes 1:13:18 [laughs] Good.

Joe Rogan 1:13:18 Bro, this guy's nuts, man. He's so fluid too. It's w- um, it's nuts to watch him, man. He's like, he like, he moves like nobody else moves, and he's real tall for the weight class, so you can't even get close to him. He's fucking you up from the outside and just... This is the guy.

Luke Grimes 1:13:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:37 That's... This, this guy is a fucking freak, man. He's just doing things different than everybody else.

Luke Grimes 1:13:44 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:13:44 And he's destroying people. Just destroying everyone, everyone he fights. He's so unusual, man. And again, he's from a hard part of the world, man. You know, you grow up in some fucking soft neighborhood and your dad takes you to karate classes. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:14:04 [laughs] Yeah, no chance.

Joe Rogan 1:14:05 You gotta fight this fucking dude.

Luke Grimes 1:14:07 This guy's fighting for his dinner, you know? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:14:08 He's just murking people. And it's also, he comes from a culture that, like, reveres combat sports. You know, they have, they're, they're, they're champions, guys like Islam Makhachev, Khabib Nurmagomedov, like, they're legends over there.

Luke Grimes 1:14:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:23 You know, and everybody grows up wanting to be one of those guys, and-

Luke Grimes 1:14:25 Where was Fedor from?

Joe Rogan 1:14:27 He's from Russia.

Luke Grimes 1:14:28 Is he?

Joe Rogan 1:14:28 Oh, yeah. He was the first.

Luke Grimes 1:14:29 I loved watching him growing up, man.

Joe Rogan 1:14:30 He was the first.

Luke Grimes 1:14:31 So I used to watch him before auditions.

Joe Rogan 1:14:33 Really?

Luke Grimes 1:14:34 Yeah, there was just something about his, like, mindset where it was, like, his, his, his, he was so even keel.

Joe Rogan 1:14:38 Yeah, stoic.

Luke Grimes 1:14:39 Like, yeah, it's like his heart rate didn't change or something. Even when he won, he'd just be like, "Meh," and like sort of walk off.

Joe Rogan 1:14:44 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:14:44 Like, that's so badass, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:14:45 Yeah, his expression never changed.

Luke Grimes 1:14:47 No.

Joe Rogan 1:14:48 Yeah. He was one of the all-time greats, if not the all-time great. He was different than everybody else, and he was a heavyweight that could submit you. He could knock you out. He was fast. He wasn't big.

Luke Grimes 1:14:59 No.

Joe Rogan 1:14:59 I mean, he was, like, 5'11".

Luke Grimes 1:15:00 Very unassuming looking.

Joe Rogan 1:15:01 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:15:01 You wouldn't know he was the most dangerous guy in the world.

Joe Rogan 1:15:03 Yeah, he had, like, a little-

Luke Grimes 1:15:04 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:15:04 ... belly fat, a little d-

Luke Grimes 1:15:05 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:15:05 He didn't give a fuck what he looked like. He was all about how he could perform.

Luke Grimes 1:15:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:15:10 You know, and he w- was a part of, like, that era where MMA emerged, and in Japan, it was so much bigger than it was in America. During the Pride days when Fedor was running shit, there was 90,000 people in those arenas.

Luke Grimes 1:15:26 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 1:15:26 Yeah. They were doing it in, like, the Tokyo Super Dome. They were doing these gigantic arenas and, like, everyone was a fan in the country, and then it all went away 'cause the, the Yakuza was involved, and there was a big scandal, and, you know, and it j- like, MMA was bigger in Japan than it was anywhere in the world, and it just kinda, like, fizzled out.

Luke Grimes 1:15:48 Did you ever go to any of those in Japan?

Joe Rogan 1:15:49 I went to a UFC once in Japan. We did one UFC in Japan, and I went there. It was really cool. It was just, I was just really happy to be in Japan for a fight 'cause I, you know, I'd been such a fan of Japanese martial artists and Jap- Japanese martial arts, period. And look, I have a, I mean, I have Miyamoto Musashi tatted on my arm.

Luke Grimes 1:16:08 Oh, cool.

Joe Rogan 1:16:08 But being there in Japan was, like, it was interesting because they were so educated. Like, they were really quiet while the fights were going on, but then when something would happen, even something really technical, like somebody passing the guard, they would go, "Oh," and they would all clap. Like, I was like, "Whoa, this is interesting."

Luke Grimes 1:16:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:26 Like, it was like, you could hear each corner yelling instructions. Like, you wouldn't, you didn't hear the crowd at all.

Luke Grimes 1:16:31 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:16:31 And it's 16,000 people in there.

Luke Grimes 1:16:33 That's cool.

Joe Rogan 1:16:33 It was wild.

Luke Grimes 1:16:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:34 It was a completely different kind of audience, like, very respectful, very appreciative, and very knowledgeable. It was, it was cool.

Luke Grimes 1:16:43 Do you think if you didn't do what you did, would you rather watch, like, UFC in person, or would you watch it at home?

Joe Rogan 1:16:50 Uh, in person's the best. You wanna be there. You wanna feel the cr- but I would wanna be there where I sit. Like, I'm super spoiled.

Luke Grimes 1:16:58 Yeah, [laughs] you've got the best seats in the house, man.

Joe Rogan 1:16:59 Yeah, I'm like, I'm like the, I could reach up and grab the cage.

Luke Grimes 1:17:02 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:17:02 It's right there. Like, I'm so spoiled. But, um, you know, if you're in the bleeders, if you're in, like, the nosebleeds, you're probably better off watching it at home, honestly, because then you get the commentary. You get to see replays. You get to see, you know, like, c- close up. If you got a big TV at home, you get to see everything.

Luke Grimes 1:17:22 I just sat close for the first time. I went to the Paddy Gaethje fight.

Joe Rogan 1:17:25 Oh, did you?

Luke Grimes 1:17:26 It was amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:17:26 That was a good one.

Luke Grimes 1:17:27 It was amazing, dude. But yeah, it's definitely different hearing the sound.

Joe Rogan 1:17:30 Oh, yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:17:31 It's like a whole... When you hear, like, bone on bone, you're like, "Whoa."

Joe Rogan 1:17:34 Well, my favorite was during the pandemic. We had fights at the UFC Apex with no crowd. It was insane. It was so, 'cause we had world championship fights with no crowd.

Luke Grimes 1:17:45 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:17:46 There was maybe, like, 50, 100 people in the room.

Luke Grimes 1:17:49 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:17:49 It was, like, mostly just staff of the UFC, the trainers of the fighters, and some, some of the other fighters in the audience and some friends in the audience, and that's it. And the, the UFC Apex has a smaller ring, too, a smaller cage, so it's, like, I think it's, like, I wanna say it's 40% smaller. It's a lot smaller.

Luke Grimes 1:18:06 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:18:07 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:18:07 I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 1:18:08 Yeah, it's smaller.

Luke Grimes 1:18:08 How, how would that affect a fight?

Joe Rogan 1:18:10 A lot.

Luke Grimes 1:18:11 Practically. Really?

Joe Rogan 1:18:12 You can't move as much.

Luke Grimes 1:18:12 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:18:12 There's not, not as much distance to get away. You know, so a guy who likes to, like, move around a lot and get away from people. Like, I saw Francis Ngannou versus Stipe Miocic when Francis won the title in the Apex with no crowd.

Luke Grimes 1:18:25 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:18:26 And when Francis hits things, it's like, it's like hearing a baseball bat hitting a pumpkin.

Luke Grimes 1:18:32 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:18:32 It's just whomp.

Luke Grimes 1:18:33 Yikes.

Joe Rogan 1:18:33 And, and you, and you're right there. You hear them breathing. You hear the crunch when they get hit, you know?

Luke Grimes 1:18:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:18:40 You hear the coaches yelling out, "Heads up, heads up. Move, move, move." You know, "Hit him with the one. One, two." They're yelling out instructions, and it's like there's no one else there, and it's silent.

Luke Grimes 1:18:50 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:18:50 It's amazing.

Luke Grimes 1:18:51 So that's the way.

Joe Rogan 1:18:52 Oh, that's my favorite.

Luke Grimes 1:18:53 Cool.

Joe Rogan 1:18:54 But there's something about an amazing crowd, you know, like when you're watching, uh, a big world title fight in a, in, like, in Vegas or in the, Madison Square Garden's an incredible place just 'cause the history of the place. You feel it when you're in Madison Square Garden. But-My favorite is the Apex.

Luke Grimes 1:19:12 How you feeling about this White House card? That's insane.

Joe Rogan 1:19:15 Makes me a little nervous. Just, I don't know if it's the best idea in the middle-

Luke Grimes 1:19:18 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:19:18 ... of a fucking war to have a-

Luke Grimes 1:19:18 It seems like it would open some-

Joe Rogan 1:19:21 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:19:21 ... some room for some-

Joe Rogan 1:19:22 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:19:23 ... tomfoolery.

Joe Rogan 1:19:23 It seems like it, yeah. Um, the card is not what they wanted it to be, for sure. They wanted it to be, like, all world titles. But, you know, matchmakers have a very difficult task. It's very hard to find people that aren't injured, that are, like, like, that are ready at this particular time. Because the brutal aspect of this sport is that guys are always hurt. They're always training hurt. They're always-

Luke Grimes 1:19:50 Right

Joe Rogan 1:19:50 ... getting hurt. They fight hurt. They're al- there's always... No one, very rarely is anyone going into the octagon 100%.

Luke Grimes 1:19:57 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:19:57 There's always something going on. Guys are, they, they're dealing with staph infections in camp, and they're taking antibiotics, and it fucks with your endurance. And maybe they've got a muscle pull or a knee that's fucked up. And when Francis Ngannou fought, um, Ciryl Gane, he blew his ACL out, so he had to wrap his leg up, and he had one leg.

Luke Grimes 1:20:15 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:20:16 And he beat him with one leg.

Luke Grimes 1:20:17 [laughs] That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:20:18 Crazy.

Luke Grimes 1:20:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:18 Guys have fought with broken hands, you know. Um, Alex Pereira, he's beaten guys with a broken foot. He fights with a broken foot, just stoic, standing there, knows his foot's broken, doesn't give a fuck.

Luke Grimes 1:20:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:20:30 He fought with a bad knee. His knee needed surgery. Like he, like, there's a fight that he fought, Jiri Prochazka, where he's on top of Jiri, they, they stop the fight, and he does a forward roll to get off of him after he knocked him down because he couldn't stand on his left leg.

Luke Grimes 1:20:44 [laughs] I didn't know that. Did, was that, like, a known thing while the fight was happening?

Joe Rogan 1:20:48 No.

Luke Grimes 1:20:48 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:20:49 No. He had surgery after the fight.

Luke Grimes 1:20:49 I remember that fight.

Joe Rogan 1:20:50 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:20:50 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:20:51 Yeah, he had surgery after the fight. Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:20:53 Pereira's really big in our house because Brazil, right?

Joe Rogan 1:20:55 Oh, yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:20:56 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:56 [exhales] That's crazy.

Luke Grimes 1:20:57 Those Brazilians, man, they love each other. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:20:59 They do.

Luke Grimes 1:20:59 My wife, she doesn't, she doesn't care about MMA that much, but if there's a Brazilian fighting, she's all about it.

Joe Rogan 1:21:04 Oh, yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:21:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:04 Yeah, very, very proud people.

Luke Grimes 1:21:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:07 And it's also, like, Brazil's where it all started. They were having MMA fights in Brazil in the 1930s.

Luke Grimes 1:21:13 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:21:13 Oh, yeah. Helio Gracie, who's really the, the founder of all this shit, he, he's the father of, like... The Gracie clan, the Gracie family is, like, the greatest story in the history of martial arts. That one family has changed martial arts forever, and it really changed it because of Carlos Gracie and Helio Gracie and Carlson Gracie. Those, these three Gracies who competed in these, y- no rules fights. They don't have, they didn't have time limits back then, no gloves, no nothing.

Luke Grimes 1:21:42 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:21:43 And they were fighting in giant crowds in Brazil in the 1930s, 1940s, and they were figuring things out that nobody had figured out before. They figured out... They took techniques from judo. Like, judo was mostly about throws, but there was some submissions. And so they concentrated only on the submissions, and they hone- and they created Brazilian jujitsu. Like, jujitsu, which was a Japanese martial art-

Luke Grimes 1:22:09 Right

Joe Rogan 1:22:10 ... but Brazilian jujitsu is far more technical than Japanese jujitsu. And even Japanese guys now train Brazilian jujitsu.

Luke Grimes 1:22:17 I was gonna say, is there any, are there purists that only do the Japanese style still or not really?

Joe Rogan 1:22:21 You can't really compete.

Luke Grimes 1:22:22 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:22:23 I mean, you'd, you'd, I mean, you could because everybody kind of knows everything now because Brazilian jujitsu has made its way into every other sport. Bra- Brazilian jujitsu has made its way into Russian Sambo, and, which is another combat sport which is also elite. But Brazilian jujitsu changed the game, and the Gracie family changed everything forever.

Luke Grimes 1:22:43 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:22:43 And, you know, and the, the guy who fought in the UFC, Royce, he wasn't even the best guy in the family. He, he told everybody, "My brother Rickson kills me." Rickson was the man. Like, Rickson was above and beyond everyone back then. He was, he was a guy who did yoga. He was meditating. He'd do this crazy thing with his stomach where he would do this breathing where his stomach would suck in.

Luke Grimes 1:23:04 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:23:05 He was, like, a real freak, and he was undefeated. Like, nobody could touch him.

Luke Grimes 1:23:10 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:23:10 He would, he would go and do these seminars. So he'd teach a seminar and, uh, teach it to all these black belts, and then he would roll with all of them non-stop and just tap out everybody. Everybody. World champions, they'd all be like, "Ah, this is a bunch of hype," and they'd go in there, "Eh." [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:23:27 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:23:27 They'd all get arm barred, and they'd all get leg locked. Like, it was crazy. He was so much better than everybody else. And so they wanted Royce to win because Rickson also was, like, pretty jacked, and he was, like, really fit, and he was really into f- he was really into strength and conditioning and, and, and, like I said, yoga. He was incredibly flexible. Like, he could stand there and do the splits and, like, hold his leg up in the air on a balance bar.

Luke Grimes 1:23:50 Is he the one that wrote that book?

Joe Rogan 1:23:52 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:23:52 Yeah, I read that.

Joe Rogan 1:23:53 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:23:53 It's awesome.

Joe Rogan 1:23:53 Yeah. And he had that documentary. It's a great documentary called "Choke," phenomenal documentary about his rise through, uh, Japan Vale Tudo. And then he was the guy, he was the guy they based the first Pride event o- on.

Luke Grimes 1:24:07 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:24:07 He was the champion of the first Pride event. He was the guy that the, the whole thing was based on, 'cause he was huge in Japan. I mean, he was a superstar in Japan. But he was the champion of the family, and they wanted Royce to do it because Royce was, like, smaller, and he would show-

Luke Grimes 1:24:22 Oh

Joe Rogan 1:24:22 ... that jujitsu was about technique.

Luke Grimes 1:24:24 That makes sense.

Joe Rogan 1:24:25 And they, the, the plan was if Royce ever got beat, throw in Rickson.

Luke Grimes 1:24:29 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:24:29 Then everybody's fucked. But Rickson, like, his brother Rorion started the UFC, and Rorion and Rickson had friction, and Rorion really couldn't control Rickson. And so they were like, "Let's put Royce in, and if we need to call on Rickson, we'll call the boogeyman."

Luke Grimes 1:24:45 [laughs] Nice.

Joe Rogan 1:24:46 He was the boogeyman.

Luke Grimes 1:24:47 Remember the guy, I think it was UFC 1, who had the one glove, the one boxing glove?

Joe Rogan 1:24:50 Yeah, Art Jimmerson. Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:24:52 What was that about? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:24:53 Well, he, I think he decided he wanted to be able to hold onto people, and he wanted to punch them with his right hand.

Luke Grimes 1:24:59 [laughs] Weird tactic, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:01 [laughs] Well, no one knew what the fuck they were doing back then. Everybody-

Luke Grimes 1:25:03 It was like Michael Jackson, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:25:04 [laughs] Everybody had this idea of what fighting was, and they didn't really know until they got taken down. There's-

Luke Grimes 1:25:11 Oh, there he is

Joe Rogan 1:25:11 ... Art. Oh, this is his left hand.

Luke Grimes 1:25:13 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:25:13 So that's interesting. So I guess he wanted to pop them with the jab as that, Royce justFuck it, put it to that guy

Luke Grimes 1:25:20 Amazing

Joe Rogan 1:25:21 But Royce was doing something that nobody had seen before. And that one event when he was doing that to people, ev- it changed everything. It changed my opinion of martial arts. I immediately started taking jujitsu. I was like, "Oh my God."

Luke Grimes 1:25:34 You were taekwondo?

Joe Rogan 1:25:35 I started in taekwondo, and then I did kickboxing for a while, and then when, as soon as I saw the UFC, I immediately started taking jujitsu.

Luke Grimes 1:25:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:43 I was like, "Oh, God, I don't..." And then when I started taking it, I was so cocky. I was like, "I know how to fight." And then I took classes and was just getting manhandled, and mauled, and tapped left and right. I was like, "Oh my God, I'm a beginner."

Luke Grimes 1:25:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:54 "This is so humiliating." And I was like, "I gotta get good at this."

Luke Grimes 1:25:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:57 Like, this is cra- I couldn't believe how helpless I was. I was running around [laughs] thinking, thinking I was a badass, and I was just a fool.

Luke Grimes 1:26:05 Yeah. It'll humble you real quick.

Joe Rogan 1:26:06 Oh, so humble.

Luke Grimes 1:26:07 I've gone through that. I s- I, I did it for, you know, maybe a couple months, and I just, I never made it past the hump. I should probably try again, but...

Joe Rogan 1:26:13 Get a trainer.

Luke Grimes 1:26:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:26:14 Get a guy who can do drills with you. That's really huge. If you can get someone to do drills with you, and, like, just go over, like, uh, like, on a one-on-one basis, the, the, the, the finer aspects of it, and just do drills, and drills, drills over and over again, and then slowly start working your way into group classes.

Luke Grimes 1:26:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:26:34 That's the key.

Luke Grimes 1:26:35 I think the thing is with, you know, if you, if you go do a boxing class, a Muay Thai class, you get to get some frustration out.

Joe Rogan 1:26:40 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:26:41 'Cause you're hitting something-

Joe Rogan 1:26:42 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:26:42 ... and it kinda feels good. On your drive home, you feel like, "I just beat the shit out of that bag," you know?

Joe Rogan 1:26:46 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:26:47 But then you do, you roll with somebody who's really good, and you go home, and you're more frustrated.

Joe Rogan 1:26:51 But the first time you tap someone, it's like, it's such a revelation. You're like, "Oh my God, I got an arm bar. Oh my God, I got a triangle." Like, the first time you actually catch someone something and they tap, I'll never forget that feeling. I was like, "Wow." And then you have to just trust the process.

Luke Grimes 1:27:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:27:08 Trust the process of showing up and, and realizing it is a tall mountain to climb. It's, you're not gonna get there quick. It is a l- it's a weird thing to do with your body. Your body doesn't know what to do with it. That's why drilling is so important. When you're drilling, you're going over the motions without resistance, so your body sort of gets programmed how to shi- swish, switch your hips, and how to catch the arm, and how to pull your body back and secure it with your legs, and all the different things that you have to do, where if you're doing just live sparring all the time, you, you're not gonna learn-

Luke Grimes 1:27:41 Right

Joe Rogan 1:27:41 ... 'cause you're all panicking and tight. You gotta be able to, like, train your body to move a certain way so it becomes automatic.

Luke Grimes 1:27:48 And is there a way to do it where you can stay, like, relatively injury-free while you're learning?

Joe Rogan 1:27:54 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:27:55 Or is it, it's like that's just part of the-

Joe Rogan 1:27:56 It's kinda part of it.

Luke Grimes 1:27:57 Yeah, I was gonna say.

Joe Rogan 1:27:58 It's kinda part of it.

Luke Grimes 1:27:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:27:59 Yeah. Ev- everybody just sort of assumes you're gonna eventually get hurt in one way or another.

Luke Grimes 1:28:03 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:28:03 You're gonna fuck your knee up, or fuck your ankle up, or whatever.

Luke Grimes 1:28:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:28:07 But the best way is to find good training partners. Don't train with any wild people, 'cause some people just yank on things.

Luke Grimes 1:28:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:13 And th- those are dangerous. The really dangerous people are, like, blue belts who are really strong, who are just, like, really spazz out on you. Like-

Luke Grimes 1:28:21 Sure

Joe Rogan 1:28:22 ... kind of avoid those folks, 'cause they could blow your knee out accidentally.

Luke Grimes 1:28:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:26 You know, I've seen that a lot. Like, I know people that are really good that won't roll with people that are spazzes. They're like, "I'm not..."

Luke Grimes 1:28:32 I definitely ran into a couple of the guys that are like, they just wanted to choke out Kayce Dutton.

Joe Rogan 1:28:36 [laughs] Of course.

Luke Grimes 1:28:38 It's like, come on, man, I just started, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:28:39 Of cour- I used to get that when I was on Fear Factor. A lot of guys wanted to choke out the Fear Factor guy.

Luke Grimes 1:28:44 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:28:44 Yeah. But, you know, that's just f- part of the fun.

Luke Grimes 1:28:47 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:28:48 Like Jordane, like, he was a 58-year-old white belt. Nuts.

Luke Grimes 1:28:51 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:28:52 If that guy did it, fucking kinda anybody can do it.

Luke Grimes 1:28:54 What belt did he get to?

Joe Rogan 1:28:56 He might've got to purple. Uh, he definitely got to blue. I don't know if he got to purple, but he won tournaments.

Luke Grimes 1:29:03 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:29:03 He competed in tournaments, you know? You know, I remember when he first started doing it, he's like, "I'd really like to compete in some age-appropriate tournaments." And I was trying to talk him out of it. I was like, "Don't... You'll get hurt, man. We need you out there."

Luke Grimes 1:29:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:16 But he was obsessed. If he can do it, like, that just goes to show you, a guy with no athletic experience, not a worker, do- didn't train, didn't, didn't do any working out, wasn't a runner, didn't lift weights, nothing, and then at 58 is like, "All right, I'm gonna get good at this."

Luke Grimes 1:29:32 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:29:33 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:29:33 Good for him, man. That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 1:29:35 Well, he was, uh, a guy that had had substance abuse problems in his past, and the thing about being an addict is if you can focus whatever that thing is and get addicted to something really good, you, you can r- you can really excel.

Luke Grimes 1:29:51 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:29:52 For whatever weird reason. Also, there's a flip side. So people that are addicted to a sport or a thing, and they get really good at a thing, and then they become drug addicts, that same thing can kinda hijack your brain, and then all you're doing is, like, chasing meth all day.

Luke Grimes 1:30:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:30:07 I've seen that happen too.

Luke Grimes 1:30:08 For sure. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30:10 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:30:11 I should get back into it.

Joe Rogan 1:30:12 It's a fun thing to do.

Luke Grimes 1:30:13 Give it a shot. Yeah, why not?

Joe Rogan 1:30:13 It's good for your head too, because it's the hardest thing you'll ever do. It's so hard, 'cause you're essentially, what you're, the game you're playing is I kill you or you kill me, right? So when a guy gets your back and gets you in a rear naked choke and you tap, you're essentially saying, "You just killed me."

Luke Grimes 1:30:31 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:30:31 "I thank you for not killing me. I give up." And then when you do it to him, he's saying that to you.

Luke Grimes 1:30:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30:36 So it's so hard that the rest of your life is easy.

Luke Grimes 1:30:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:30:40 Everything else becomes easy. L- all the stress of fame, success, and Hollywood, and the bullshit, it's nothing compared to some dude mounting you, trying to, getting, you're, you go, you're trapped in an arm triangle, you're like, "Ah, ah," trying to get your hand down to protect yourself.

Luke Grimes 1:30:55 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:30:56 "Ah." It's way harder, and that, that makes the rest of your life easier. If you can choose what's hard in your life, you'll be way better off.

Luke Grimes 1:31:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31:06 Fi- find the thing that's way more difficult on your mind, way more difficult on your body, way more difficult on your spirit-

Luke Grimes 1:31:12 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:31:13 ... than this other thing that you do. So it'll, like, make that other thing, like, easier to tolerate.

Luke Grimes 1:31:18 Yeah. And stay humble too.

Joe Rogan 1:31:19 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:31:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31:20 Oh yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:31:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31:21 Super humble.

Luke Grimes 1:31:22 You're not gonna think you're cool for being able to say some lines.

Joe Rogan 1:31:24 [laughs] Some people get... Well, that's the other thing, right? You get-... really intoxicated with everybody kissing your ass

Luke Grimes 1:31:32 Oh, yeah. Easy, easy trap to fall into.

Joe Rogan 1:31:33 We've all seen that.

Luke Grimes 1:31:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31:34 We've all seen actors, they're just, like, inflated.

Luke Grimes 1:31:37 Oh, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:31:38 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:31:38 Yeah. I'm, I'm a little blessed in the way that I've never thought I was very great at anything. Um, I enjoy doing the things, but I've ne- you know, like, never really... I'm never good enough for myself, kinda hard on myself a little bit, but I've seen it for sure. If, if, if you're waiting for someone else to validate you, once they do, you're screwed.

Joe Rogan 1:31:57 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:31:57 'Cause you're gonna believe it.

Joe Rogan 1:31:59 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:31:59 You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:32:00 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:32:00 So.

Joe Rogan 1:32:01 Well, that's the problem with being a star, is that, like, all these people need you, and the world, their world of the show revolves around you.

Luke Grimes 1:32:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:09 So they're all, like, you know, kinda kissing your ass and reverent towards you. It's like, it's, gets a little weird.

Luke Grimes 1:32:15 Yeah. Yeah. That, and that's new for me too, you know? I'd, I'd never been in anything that was, like, a massive hit before Yellowstone, and now with this new show, now it's a hit, and I'm the number one on the call sheet, which is very new.

Joe Rogan 1:32:28 Mm.

Luke Grimes 1:32:28 And so I'm like a, you know, I'm an asset to them in a different way. Um, so-

Joe Rogan 1:32:33 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:32:33 ... it'll be interesting navigating that. See where that goes.

Joe Rogan 1:32:34 They'll probably try to talk you out of doing jujitsu.

Luke Grimes 1:32:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:37 That'd be funny. So-

Luke Grimes 1:32:37 I'd probably have to sign something that I won't. You know, I'm, I'm not allowed to, like, ski. There's a lot of things because of-

Joe Rogan 1:32:42 Oh, yeah

Luke Grimes 1:32:42 ... the insurance.

Joe Rogan 1:32:43 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:32:43 Like, if I get hurt and production has to shut down, it's a lot of money for them, so.

Joe Rogan 1:32:48 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:32:49 Yeah. So.

Joe Rogan 1:32:49 That makes sense, yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:32:50 I don't know if that's one of them, though. But, like, yeah, skiing.

Joe Rogan 1:32:52 Don't ask.

Luke Grimes 1:32:53 It's funny 'cause horseback riding usually is, and I have to do that for the show. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:32:57 [laughs] That's the most dangerous.

Luke Grimes 1:32:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:59 Horseback riding scares the shit out of me.

Luke Grimes 1:33:01 Dude, I, me too. It was not, it didn't come natural. That's not, like, a thing that I'm naturally good at or had done before Yellowstone.

Joe Rogan 1:33:08 My oldest daughter did it for a little bit in California, and she fell a couple times, and one time she hurt her wrist really bad, and I was like, "Please stop. Don't do this."

Luke Grimes 1:33:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:33:16 'Cause she was doing those things where you had to, like, jump over stuff. Like, you know, it was like-

Luke Grimes 1:33:19 Oh, that's so dangerous

Joe Rogan 1:33:20 ... oh.

Luke Grimes 1:33:21 'Cause they stop-

Joe Rogan 1:33:22 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:33:22 ... just shy of that thing, and you go flying.

Joe Rogan 1:33:24 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:33:24 Yeah. No, that hurt.

Joe Rogan 1:33:25 Her friend, she had a good friend that was really into it, and they started doing it together, and I was like, "Please don't." And she fell a couple times, and she was okay, but one time she really hurt her wrist, and I was like, "Please stop." Because your wrist they can fix. Your neck, you get, like, Christopher Reeves, you know?

Luke Grimes 1:33:41 Oof.

Joe Rogan 1:33:41 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:33:41 Oh, I think about Christopher Reeves every time I get on a horse. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:33:44 I believe it, man.

Luke Grimes 1:33:44 I wish I didn't.

Joe Rogan 1:33:46 That was what he did, right? He was doing the jumping thing, right?

Luke Grimes 1:33:48 Was it?

Joe Rogan 1:33:49 I believe so.

Luke Grimes 1:33:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:33:51 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:33:51 Terrible.

Joe Rogan 1:33:51 I just don't, I don't... Yeah, I don't get it.

Luke Grimes 1:33:54 Do you ride motorcycles?

Joe Rogan 1:33:55 Nope.

Luke Grimes 1:33:56 No, I don't either.

Joe Rogan 1:33:56 Almost did. Almost did.

Luke Grimes 1:33:58 What do you mean?

Joe Rogan 1:33:58 Was taking lessons. Uh, me and a couple of the other guys that worked on the crew at Fear Factor, uh, we all took motorcycle lessons together. We were all talking about it, and so we took s- motorcycle safety courses. You know, you're basically riding, like, it's kinda like a dirt bike, and they teach you how to, you know, shift and all this stuff, and I kinda got into it. I was like, "Ooh, this is really fun." And then three of my friends had motorcycle accidents.

Luke Grimes 1:34:21 Oof.

Joe Rogan 1:34:21 Like, within a short time period. Um, one of them wiped out, fucked up his shoulder. The other one got hit by a car, broke his leg. And then the other one was actually someone saw someone. It wasn't an actual motorcycle accident. He was there when some guy got rear-ended by a car that wasn't paying attention, just plowed into him and sent him flying, and fucked this guy up. And I was like, "No."

Luke Grimes 1:34:45 No, man.

Joe Rogan 1:34:45 "No, no, no, no. I'm not doing that."

Luke Grimes 1:34:47 I had a bike for a couple months in LA, and, uh, I went on a ride. And, you know, it's like one of those things. You, you have to have the bug. You, like, either have it or you don't. I was trying to get the bug. I, 'cause I wanted that to be a part of my identity.

Joe Rogan 1:34:58 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:34:58 You know what I mean? I wanted to be a guy who rode motorcycles. So I rode up the Pacific Coast Highway, and I was kinda riding up through, like, Ojai, and going around this corner, you know, this sort of, like, cliff side. And it, that thing where if you stare at something, that's where you're gonna go. And I just kinda was, like, zoned out, and I almost ate shit right into the side of this cliff. And I was alone. Like, if I would've done it, it would've been forever until anyone figured out, like, what had happened to me. You know, and I kinda, it was a really, really close call, and I just got off the bike and I kinda sat there for a minute and I was like, "Yeah, I don't love it enough to die this way."

Joe Rogan 1:35:31 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:35:31 You know what I mean? I don't need this in my life, and I never, never did it again.

Joe Rogan 1:35:35 I have friends that have never had a problem. I have friends that ride bikes and have never had a problem. I think if I lived in Montana I might do it, 'cause there's just not that much traffic.

Luke Grimes 1:35:44 No, but my 70-year-old neighbor just hit a deer.

Joe Rogan 1:35:47 Ooh.

Luke Grimes 1:35:48 70 years old, on his, like, you know, his, one of them BMW, like, adventure bikes.

Joe Rogan 1:35:51 Ooh.

Luke Grimes 1:35:52 And he was going 70 on the highway [tire screech] and hit a deer. Yeah. He's h- and he's fine, dude. This guy's a tank. But h-

Joe Rogan 1:35:59 How old was he?

Luke Grimes 1:36:00 70.

Joe Rogan 1:36:01 Whoa.

Luke Grimes 1:36:01 Killed the deer. He had road rash everywhere, and he was kinda like, you know, on the couch for a few weeks.

Joe Rogan 1:36:05 70 and he's fine?

Luke Grimes 1:36:06 Dude, he is a tank.

Joe Rogan 1:36:07 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:36:07 This guy, they make them different out there, dude. He's my next-door neighbor. He's amazing. Shout out Steve.

Joe Rogan 1:36:13 Wow.

Luke Grimes 1:36:13 He, uh, he's got a range in his backyard to 500 yards.

Joe Rogan 1:36:17 Oh, wow.

Luke Grimes 1:36:18 And has every firearm imaginable, and things you didn't even know they made. And so any time I can just, you know, ride over there on the side-by-side, we grab a few and go down and shoot in the back. He's the man.

Joe Rogan 1:36:27 Oh, that's nice. That's cool.

Luke Grimes 1:36:29 Yeah, it's super cool.

Joe Rogan 1:36:29 Yeah, you find people like that in Montana.

Luke Grimes 1:36:31 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:32 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:36:32 He's the real deal.

Joe Rogan 1:36:34 Wow, but 70 years old, hitting a deer is crazy on a bike.

Luke Grimes 1:36:37 Yeah. Killed the deer, and he, uh, about a month later he was all right. He was back on the bike.

Joe Rogan 1:36:43 Oh, boy. Geez. I've seen some videos of guys hitting deer. Like, you see, like, from their camera, brr.

Luke Grimes 1:36:52 Oof.

Joe Rogan 1:36:52 And you see this thing leap in front of the road, then bang.

Luke Grimes 1:36:55 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:36:55 And you see [gibberishing]

Luke Grimes 1:36:58 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:36:58 Yeah, deers, they, they're everywhere out here, man. When I'm driving home, I drive slow. There's, like, a certain road near my house where they just pop out all, the suicidal deer.

Luke Grimes 1:37:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:07 Just pop out, especially, like, around the rut.

Luke Grimes 1:37:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:10 Where the, the, the bucks are chasing the does.

Luke Grimes 1:37:12 They're not thinking straight.

Joe Rogan 1:37:13 And they're not chasing straight. They just, they're just out there, likeFucking-

Luke Grimes 1:37:16 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:37:16 ... pussy hungry, standing in the road staring at you.

Luke Grimes 1:37:20 I love explaining to people how the rut works, 'cause it works just like humans. And like the only time they're dumb enough that you're gonna get one is when they're horny.

Joe Rogan 1:37:26 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:37:27 You know? It's like-

Joe Rogan 1:37:27 But for them it's once a year, which is way crazier than us.

Luke Grimes 1:37:31 Can you imagine [laughs] if it all came once?

Joe Rogan 1:37:34 Bro, if humans had a rut, I would go on vacation during that time.

Luke Grimes 1:37:38 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:38 I'm like, "I'm hiding."

Luke Grimes 1:37:39 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:37:40 I'm, I don't wanna be anywhere near ... It'd probably be like murders-

Luke Grimes 1:37:43 Oh, I know

Joe Rogan 1:37:43 ... car accidents.

Luke Grimes 1:37:44 Lock me in jail for that month or whatever. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:37:47 [laughs] Exactly. Like, get a bunker.

Luke Grimes 1:37:49 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:37:49 Get a bunker, lock down with Netflix for a month.

Luke Grimes 1:37:51 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:37:51 Fuck that. There is no way, man. That would be crazy. Imagine if the whole world had their rut at the same time.

Luke Grimes 1:37:58 [laughs] Oh, man.

Joe Rogan 1:37:59 Oh my God.

Luke Grimes 1:38:00 That's a good movie idea.

Joe Rogan 1:38:01 It is a good movie idea, right?

Luke Grimes 1:38:03 We should do it. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:38:03 That's actually a great movie idea.

Luke Grimes 1:38:05 Just call it The Rut.

Joe Rogan 1:38:06 Yeah, like human beings evolve or maybe there's like genetic engineering 'cause they decide that the pop- there's overpopulation and the solution to it is only have people breed at a certain time.

Luke Grimes 1:38:16 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:38:16 And also like keep people from being distracted all the time, 'cause like how many people are on dating apps, and how many people are like, you know, going to bars and trying to find someone? It's like, it's a huge waste of your time.

Luke Grimes 1:38:29 Oh my God, my 20s and 30s were just blown-

Joe Rogan 1:38:32 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:38:32 ... because of it.

Joe Rogan 1:38:33 Just-

Luke Grimes 1:38:33 It's all I thought about

Joe Rogan 1:38:33 ... massive-

Luke Grimes 1:38:34 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:38:34 ... massive waste of your time. If there was like a solution to that, the solution would be like, well, everyone's only gonna breed only during November.

Luke Grimes 1:38:43 Maybe it's the best thing ever.

Joe Rogan 1:38:44 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:38:45 You know? It'd be great if there was like a switch you could flip. You know? Like a little board, you like flip it and then go out and-

Joe Rogan 1:38:50 Right

Luke Grimes 1:38:50 ... figure it out.

Joe Rogan 1:38:51 And then the rest of the year, like you don't even care about girls. Like-

Luke Grimes 1:38:54 Nah, you'd be so productive, man

Joe Rogan 1:38:55 ... bucks just walk by a female doe in like, you know, fucking June. They don't give a shit about them.

Luke Grimes 1:39:00 No. And they don't have their antlers, so they look the same.

Joe Rogan 1:39:02 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:39:03 They, you know what I mean? They lose their masculinity entirely.

Joe Rogan 1:39:06 Right. Right. Right. Well, they get it back pretty quick. Those fucking things grow quick. It's like they fall off, within a month or two they start growing nubs.

Luke Grimes 1:39:14 Isn't it the fastest growing bone material-

Joe Rogan 1:39:16 Mm-hmm

Luke Grimes 1:39:17 ... on the, on the planet?

Joe Rogan 1:39:17 Yeah. I think elk is. Well, it could- because that's nuts. I mean, like you look at like a four and, 400-inch elk, like some of those antlers that are out there, imagine that that grows in a couple of months.

Luke Grimes 1:39:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39:29 It's bone.

Luke Grimes 1:39:30 It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:39:30 And they fight to the death with it.

Luke Grimes 1:39:32 Crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:39:33 Like we find el- elk that have been killed by other elk. Happens all the time.

Luke Grimes 1:39:37 Have you hunted in Montana?

Joe Rogan 1:39:38 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:39:39 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:39:39 Not, uh, not elk. I've, uh, hunted mule deer in Montana and, uh, pheasant that time I went with Bourdain. Um-

Luke Grimes 1:39:46 I've never done elk until I moved up there. I started hunting whitetail when I was like 10, like really young, 'cause we have big whitetail in Ohio. And I thought hunting elk would be similar.

Joe Rogan 1:39:56 No.

Luke Grimes 1:39:56 And boy was I mistaken.

Joe Rogan 1:39:57 Bro, it is ... When, did, were you bow hunting or rifle hunting?

Luke Grimes 1:40:00 I've done both, but my first was a bow hunt. And we went out there, we were camping out there, me and the ... I, I just made friends with this, the contractor that built my house in Montana, and he took me. We went public land around Dillon, Montana. And we went for a week, and I had to tap out day four. Like I couldn't, my, my legs stopped working.

Joe Rogan 1:40:18 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:40:18 I didn't, I was like, "I didn't know I had, it was like this." So the next year I went, I was like prepared for it, but I didn't-

Joe Rogan 1:40:22 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:40:23 ... know, man, you really gotta go for it.

Joe Rogan 1:40:24 Oh, you gotta get in shape.

Luke Grimes 1:40:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:26 I do a lot of shit before September. I do, I, I have this crazy routine that I do on a AirDyne bike. I do these Tabatas on an AirDyne bike where you sprint for 20 seconds.

Luke Grimes 1:40:37 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:38 You rest for 10, you sprint for 20 seconds.

Luke Grimes 1:40:39 The worst.

Joe Rogan 1:40:40 And all I'm doing is thinking about getting over a hill.

Luke Grimes 1:40:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:40:42 Getting over a hill to get a shot. I mean, and then I do like box step-ups. I do all these different things with weighted vests and farmer's carries with fucking heavy kettlebells. All I'm doing is just trying to condition my legs.

Luke Grimes 1:40:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:55 You have to. Like those mountains are brutal.

Luke Grimes 1:40:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:59 There's no mountains here for me to practice on.

Luke Grimes 1:41:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:41:01 But in California I used to run hills with my dog. It was-

Luke Grimes 1:41:03 Yeah. And you're at elevation, which makes it even harder.

Joe Rogan 1:41:05 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:41:06 And a weird thing people wouldn't expect, uh, like just, you know, makes it even worse, you get up in the morning, it's zero degrees.

Joe Rogan 1:41:13 Mm-hmm.

Luke Grimes 1:41:14 Middle of the day it's 50, 60, and you're hiking all day. So it's like how do you dress for that?

Joe Rogan 1:41:18 You have to dress to be cold.

Luke Grimes 1:41:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:41:21 Like once you start walking, you have to be cold.

Luke Grimes 1:41:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:41:24 Like you gotta get down to your base layer and walk cold. And then if you ever have to stop, then you put it on. And the other key, Merino wool.

Luke Grimes 1:41:32 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:41:32 That's the key. Because wool is different than cotton. If your cotton gets wet, and then you, you're sweaty, and then you get cold, you're fucked.

Luke Grimes 1:41:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:41:41 But wool's not like that. Merino wool is the best.

Luke Grimes 1:41:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:41:45 Because like if you have a, especially a base layer, because when you're sweating, it kinda keeps you a little cool, and then, um, if you get cold, it doesn't, it, it doesn't feel cold.

Luke Grimes 1:41:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:41:55 Because it's, it's not synthetic. It's, it's organic.

Luke Grimes 1:41:58 Makes sense.

Joe Rogan 1:41:59 Yeah. It's a weird fiber.

Luke Grimes 1:42:01 Yeah. We used to walk to the deer stand kind of in half of our stuff, keep the other half in a pack, and then like once I got in the tree stand I'd put everything else on-

Joe Rogan 1:42:08 Right

Luke Grimes 1:42:08 ... so that you wouldn't-

Joe Rogan 1:42:09 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:42:09 ... you know, the sweat wouldn't freeze to you.

Joe Rogan 1:42:11 That's hard. D- deer hunting in a tree stand is fucking hard.

Luke Grimes 1:42:15 It's like a silent retreat, and you're freezing-

Joe Rogan 1:42:17 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:42:17 ... at the same time. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:42:18 You're freezing, and you're sitting up there waiting for a deer to walk by, and then you're so cold that when a deer walks by you go to pull your bow back, you're like, "Oh, Jesus."

Luke Grimes 1:42:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:25 Like, "Why am I so weak?"

Luke Grimes 1:42:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:26 Like you can barely pull your bow back when you're up in the tree.

Luke Grimes 1:42:29 Yeah. But nothing, I mean, no, no challenge whatsoever compared to elk hunting.

Joe Rogan 1:42:32 No.

Luke Grimes 1:42:32 That was, like blew my mind how hard that was. And the guy I went with, you know, he grew up in Montana, he's like a mountain goat.

Joe Rogan 1:42:38 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:42:38 I just like couldn't keep up with this guy, man.

Joe Rogan 1:42:39 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:42:39 I'm like, "This isn't, how do you do this?" Just constant all day long.

Joe Rogan 1:42:43 You can't just get out of your, off your couch and go elk hunting-

Luke Grimes 1:42:45 No

Joe Rogan 1:42:45 ... in the mountains.

Luke Grimes 1:42:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:46 You can't do it.

Luke Grimes 1:42:47 No. You gotta get in shape. You gotta get-

Joe Rogan 1:42:48 No, like my friend Cam Hanes, that's why he started running, he's, he's, he became a ultra runner.

Luke Grimes 1:42:53 Yeah. He's doing like 250 mile stuff, right?

Joe Rogan 1:42:55 Yeah. Yeah, he does like these three-day runs. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:42:58 He try to get you into that? Have you done any of that? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:43:01 [laughs] No chance. I have one knee that sucks. I have one knee that I, I fucked up in martial arts. It's missing meniscus, and I cracked it, uh, skiing too. I wiped out skiing, got a fracture at the top of my tibia. So I, it's like it, it's ... If I started running, it would get beat up real bad.

Luke Grimes 1:43:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:43:18 But I do, there's plenty of conditioning you could do without running, you know? But it's the, the pounding of running is not good for my knee.

Luke Grimes 1:43:25 There's something so amazing, though, about getting to that first thing in the morning when the sun's coming up and you're glassing.

Joe Rogan 1:43:31 Mm-hmm.

Luke Grimes 1:43:31 And you're just like, "This is what I always wanted hunting to be like."

Joe Rogan 1:43:34 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:43:35 It's the real thing.

Joe Rogan 1:43:36 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:43:36 It's like, this is what it's supposed to feel like. You're so far out there, you know. I didn't get to go the last couple years. My wife was having our baby two years ago, so I wasn't allowed to be in the woods with no service.

Joe Rogan 1:43:48 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:43:48 And then last year I was shooting the show, but this year I'm gonna be able to go. I got a good spot, and even if I'm shooting the show, it's like, it's right there.

Joe Rogan 1:43:55 Well, they have phones now that have satellite service. Um, I think you g- is that, does T-Mobile have that now, where you can get Starlink on your, on your phone? I know they're doing that soon. And, you know, you can text message with iPhones. You can, I got done that-

Luke Grimes 1:44:10 Oh, that's right. Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:44:10 ... in the middle of the woods. And you know what the best thing is, man? [clears throat] When we were in Utah last year, well, the last two years, I've had a Starlink Mini. It is the shit. It's like the size of an iPad.

Luke Grimes 1:44:21 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:44:22 You just lay it down on the ground, you use the app, and the Starlink app will tell you which way to point it to, and you get high-speed internet.

Luke Grimes 1:44:30 I have one for when we shoot for-

Joe Rogan 1:44:31 It's incredible

Luke Grimes 1:44:32 ... yeah, 'cause we're in the middle of nowhere, so.

Joe Rogan 1:44:33 It's so awesome.

Luke Grimes 1:44:34 It's the best.

Joe Rogan 1:44:34 It's so good.

Luke Grimes 1:44:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:44:35 You get, you can... Here it is. Yeah, it's T-Mobile. T-Satellite. Yeah. Yeah. That's the shit, man. Yeah. So you can, can you make phone calls, or is it just internet? It's phone calls, too, right? Texting and select satellite-ready apps. Okay, just texting? S- uh, satellite service, including text to 911, may be delayed, limited, or unavailable. So you can just text and some satellite-ready apps right now. So that's, like, everywhere.

Luke Grimes 1:45:09 That's cool.

Joe Rogan 1:45:10 Yeah. So eventually they'll have, it'll be, like, Starlink will be connected to your phone, and you'll be able to get high-speed internet everywhere in the world, if we don't have World War III-

Luke Grimes 1:45:20 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:45:20 ... and blow, blow everybody up.

Luke Grimes 1:45:22 I doubt it.

Joe Rogan 1:45:22 But there's, the elk hunting thing, the, the, the thing that makes it all the more exciting is, like, they're moving around. You gotta sneak up in on them. You're playing the wind. And then the sound they make when they're screaming.

Luke Grimes 1:45:35 Bro.

Joe Rogan 1:45:36 [imitates elk screeching]

Luke Grimes 1:45:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:38 And you hear it, you're like... If you never knew what that was, you would think there's demons in the woods.

Luke Grimes 1:45:42 Yeah, demons or, like, T-Rex.

Joe Rogan 1:45:44 Right. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:45:44 [laughs] It's crazy, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:45:45 The sound is so incredible.

Luke Grimes 1:45:47 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:45:48 It's so incredible, and it's so hard to do. It's like, that to me is, uh, one of the things that I love, like, every year because e- everything goes away. It's so difficult. It's so difficult to get in shape for it, so difficult to m- manage your way into the mountains and, and to be in shape to be able to do it day after day, and then to be able to pull off a shot. You know, like, you know, like, you have this brief moment. The thing's 65 yards away, and you draw back and-

Luke Grimes 1:46:12 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:46:13 ... you're trying to settle your pin and-

Luke Grimes 1:46:14 You could've done all of that just to, like, mess it up-

Joe Rogan 1:46:18 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:46:18 ... one little tiny... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:19 It happens all the time.

Luke Grimes 1:46:21 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:46:21 But when you're successful, oh my God, it's the greatest feeling of all time. And then when you're eating it, and then you're, you're, you know, you're at home and you're on the barbecue grilling these elk steaks, like, "I can't wait to do this again."

Luke Grimes 1:46:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:33 It's so exciting.

Luke Grimes 1:46:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:35 And it's just, but it's, the being out there, it's like a vitamin. It's like a vitamin that you didn't know you needed.

Luke Grimes 1:46:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:41 It's like your whole body's like, "Oh, this is so much better than regular life."

Luke Grimes 1:46:45 You can't be mentally unwell.

Joe Rogan 1:46:47 No.

Luke Grimes 1:46:47 It's, like, impossible.

Joe Rogan 1:46:48 Right.

Luke Grimes 1:46:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:49 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:46:49 It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:46:50 You just feel so much better. The air is better. You know, it's like, and you're more focused. You're not distracted, and you just, you feel alive.

Luke Grimes 1:46:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:59 And then it's also the majesty of nature. You're just around these trees and mountains, and you're catching all these animals that are out there, and, you know, you see eagles flying overhead. You're like-

Luke Grimes 1:47:09 The best

Joe Rogan 1:47:09 ... "God."

Luke Grimes 1:47:10 And like day three, you're like, "I think I'm just gonna move out here." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:47:14 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:47:14 "I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna do this." And then you go back to real life and you're like, "Oh, yeah."

Joe Rogan 1:47:18 I think that all the time.

Luke Grimes 1:47:19 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:47:19 I think that all the time, that I'd like to live in the mountains. My wife is not down with it, but I'd love it.

Luke Grimes 1:47:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:25 I might get a place somewhere one day in the mountains just to retreat, just to be able to just disconnect, shut off for a while. I think that's probably a good idea.

Luke Grimes 1:47:34 I love it. I th- I wonder, though, now that I have a kid, like, we're gonna have to start thinking about, you know, school for him and stuff, and I don't, there's really not... I don't know if, I don't, you know, once we get there, we'll figure that out, but we're gonna probably have to get somewhere closer to some people, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:47:48 Doesn't Bozeman have good schools? Wait, where are you near?

Luke Grimes 1:47:51 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:47:51 What are you near?

Luke Grimes 1:47:52 Um, I'm-

Joe Rogan 1:47:52 What's the town you're near?

Luke Grimes 1:47:53 I'm about an hour south of Missoula.

Joe Rogan 1:47:55 Oh.

Luke Grimes 1:47:55 So I fly to Missoula to go home.

Joe Rogan 1:47:56 Missoula has good schools, right?

Luke Grimes 1:47:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:59 They have a university.

Luke Grimes 1:48:00 But I'd have to move closer to Missoula, and at that point I'm like, "Why don't I just, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:48:04 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:48:04 ... move to a city, I guess," you know?

Joe Rogan 1:48:06 Ew.

Luke Grimes 1:48:07 I know. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:48:07 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:48:08 I think the move might be getting somewhere, you know, a little more populated and then keeping, like, a cabin in Montana like you were talking about.

Joe Rogan 1:48:14 Mm-hmm.

Luke Grimes 1:48:14 You know, and then taking him out there whenever we can. That'd probably be the thing.

Joe Rogan 1:48:17 Do you have a place in your house where you record? Do you have, like, a r- little recording studio or anything?

Luke Grimes 1:48:22 Yeah, like a, just for me to record demos to send to people, to actually record, just to be like, "This is something I've been working on," or, you know. Um, kind of a setup like one of these and, and a computer. Um, but yeah, I do a lot of writing up there. It's a, a great place to write songs. Just-

Joe Rogan 1:48:36 How do you write? Do you write on paper, or do you just start strumming and singing?

Luke Grimes 1:48:40 It's different every time. Sometimes I'll have, like, a, it'll, it'll be a melody. Uh, it'll be a guitar riff. It could be, like, a lyrical idea, some sort of hook, you know, and it comes in a lot of different ways. And then sometimes I'll finish something on my own, or sometimes I'll do a Nashville trip and sit with some other writers that I like.

Joe Rogan 1:48:59 Mm.

Luke Grimes 1:48:59 And, you know, we'll kinda, like, bang it out together and that's the coolest part of the process, man. There's something about making something out of absolutely nothing.

Joe Rogan 1:49:08 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:49:08 It's, like, addicting, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:49:09 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:49:09 It's really cool.

Joe Rogan 1:49:11 Yeah, jokes are similar in a, the, a way, I bet. I've never really been a songwriter, but I'm guessing.So it's like creating something out of, like, out of your mind.

Luke Grimes 1:49:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:49:21 And all of a sudden it's a thing, and then you're performing it in front of people.

Luke Grimes 1:49:24 And it's like, I've heard you talk about this, and, and any good creative person talk about this, but like, it comes to you.

Joe Rogan 1:49:30 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:49:30 You can't really take credit for a good idea.

Joe Rogan 1:49:32 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:49:32 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:49:32 Exactly.

Luke Grimes 1:49:33 Like I'll just be driving and be like, "Whoa, that's... Where'd that come from?"

Joe Rogan 1:49:36 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:49:36 Like, "Whatever that is, give me more of it."

Joe Rogan 1:49:38 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:49:38 "I love it," you know?

Joe Rogan 1:49:39 I was talking to Michael Pollan about that yesterday. We were talking about consciousness, and we were talking about how it just seems like you're not doing it. It's just coming out of the ether. You know, it's just like, and you just have to show up and receive it.

Luke Grimes 1:49:54 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:49:55 And if you show up enough th- and you, you know, pay homage to the muse and sit there... You ever read War of Art, Steven Pressfield's book?

Luke Grimes 1:50:03 I haven't. Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 1:50:03 I got a box of copies. I'll give you a copy-

Luke Grimes 1:50:05 Oh, great

Joe Rogan 1:50:05 ... if you ever out there. He always gi- well, I bought a box of copies. I bought a bunch of them, and I used to hand them out to comedians and artists when I was on the show. I was like, "L- l- just listen to me. You gotta read this." It's a really small book. It's easy, but it's one of the best books ever about creativity. And it essentially just, he tells you if you treat it like there is a muse, like there is a god, a goddess that will give you ideas, as long as you pay respect to the muse. You have to show up on time every day, sit there, and do it. And some days you get nothing.

Luke Grimes 1:50:36 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:50:36 But you just gotta keep showing up. Keep showing up and trust in that process, and eventually you're like, "Oh my God, this idea is so good."

Luke Grimes 1:50:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:50:43 "Where did it come from?"

Luke Grimes 1:50:44 That makes sense.

Joe Rogan 1:50:45 Where did it come from?

Luke Grimes 1:50:46 Yeah. When I'm, when I'm, when I'm in a really good spot sort of mentally, emotionally, spiritually, taking care of myself, sleeping, I get more of those.

Joe Rogan 1:50:54 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:50:55 And I know there's this, like, mysticism around, like, people who, like, you know, Hunter S. Thompson or someone like that who just kinda spent a lot of time being fucked up-

Joe Rogan 1:51:01 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:51:01 ... and they still get it. That never worked out really well for me. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:51:06 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:51:06 I've tried it, trust me. It's not great.

Joe Rogan 1:51:08 I think with, with those guys, they're trying to get out of their own head.

Luke Grimes 1:51:11 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:51:12 You know, they're just trying to get blasted so they could just, like, just release themselves from their life-

Luke Grimes 1:51:18 Huh

Joe Rogan 1:51:18 ... and then just obliterate it and just start writing.

Luke Grimes 1:51:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:23 And then the muse starts talking to them.

Luke Grimes 1:51:25 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 1:51:26 Yeah. But he-

Luke Grimes 1:51:26 Hemingway or there's a lot of guys like-

Joe Rogan 1:51:28 Oh, yeah

Luke Grimes 1:51:29 ... you know, had to be sort of a little messed up-

Joe Rogan 1:51:30 Stephen King

Luke Grimes 1:51:31 ... to do the thing. That's right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:33 Yeah. Yeah. His book on writing is fantastic, too. It's, it's called On Writing, Stephen King On Writing.

Luke Grimes 1:51:37 I read that one.

Joe Rogan 1:51:37 Yeah. It's great, right?

Luke Grimes 1:51:38 It's really good.

Joe Rogan 1:51:39 He was obliterated, like, most of his great work, most of the great stuff, out of his fucking mind on drugs and-

Luke Grimes 1:51:46 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:51:46 ... alcohol and...

Luke Grimes 1:51:47 And some of those guys, like, once they stop doing it, they lose the thing. They're not, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:51:52 Uh-huh

Luke Grimes 1:51:52 ... name names, but, like-

Joe Rogan 1:51:53 Him

Luke Grimes 1:51:53 ... there's some, yeah [chuckles] , there's some artists-

Joe Rogan 1:51:55 Yeah

Luke Grimes 1:51:55 ... I love that they kinda got clean.

Joe Rogan 1:51:57 Yep.

Luke Grimes 1:51:58 And you're like, "Where'd the thing go?"

Joe Rogan 1:51:59 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:51:59 Which is unfortunate, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:52:00 Yeah. It happens with comics, too.

Luke Grimes 1:52:02 Does it?

Joe Rogan 1:52:03 Some of them, though, they get better. Like Dave Attell got way better when he quit drinking. Um, it's interesting. It doesn't always, it doesn't have to be that, but for a lot of them, like, that crutch, the, whatever it is that connects them to the creativity, once they eliminate that part and try to keep, try to stay alive, essentially, like, Stephen King was, like, killing himself. But his later work is just not comparable.

Luke Grimes 1:52:27 What's your process like writing jokes? Like, how does that start for you? Like, how do you-

Joe Rogan 1:52:32 It, uh, it, it is a, it's... There's some ideas that just come to me out of the middle of nowhere. Like, I'll be just hanging out and, and then I have an idea, or I'm driving in my car, and I have an idea, and I just have to write it down. And then a lot of it is just sitting down with a computer.

Luke Grimes 1:52:48 Huh.

Joe Rogan 1:52:48 Just sitting down and like, "What am I writing about? I'm writing about immigration. Okay, let me fucking ch-ch-ch-ch." And it, I write in essay form, so I don't try to write, like, a stand-up comedy joke, which I've tried before, but that s- never works. But what does work is if I lose myself in just ruminating on an idea and just explore it from every different angle, and then I'll find one paragraph. I might write 2,000 words, and I'll find one paragraph. I'm like, "That's it."

Luke Grimes 1:53:17 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:53:18 And I'll take that out, and I'll put it in there, and I'll try to introduce it on stage, and then I try to figure out how to segue into it, and then I try to figure out how to expand on it. And then I'll take that one thing, and then I'll stare at that one paragraph and go, "What else?" Like, "What else? What's the other angle?" Like, "What, what if I was not like that? What if, what, how do I feel about if I was on the other side of that? What if I'm the person that's going through this? And what if I'm this and that?" And then I'll try to just try that, and it's, it's like, I always describe it as like you're trying to, you're trying to build a mountain one layer of paint at a time.

Luke Grimes 1:53:50 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:53:51 And it's a long and bru- And then sometimes it's not. Some jokes just come to you in full form.

Luke Grimes 1:53:57 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 1:53:58 Like the way I wrote it is the way I say it, and it's perfect.

Luke Grimes 1:54:02 Huh.

Joe Rogan 1:54:02 And, but that's, you can't count on that either.

Luke Grimes 1:54:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:54:05 So it's...

Luke Grimes 1:54:06 It's gonna come, and it's not.

Joe Rogan 1:54:07 And again, I don't think they're mine. You know, they're just coming from somewhere.

Luke Grimes 1:54:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:54:11 The key is just showing up. That's the key. The key is, like, sitting in front of that fucking computer. Or some guys don't like a computer. They want a notepad. They want pen and paper. They like, they like it better that way, and I get it. But for me, I can type. Like, I don't have to look at the keys. I can touch type. So for me, I can write a word out as fast as I'm thinking it-

Luke Grimes 1:54:32 Huh

Joe Rogan 1:54:32 ... which is way better for me than writing down, because I write slower than I type. And so I, I wanna be able to get it all out.

Luke Grimes 1:54:40 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:54:41 I wanna... To me, it's like it doesn't... And then I write it on paper eventually, but when I first write it, I wanna write it down on a computer, because I can capture it quicker.

Luke Grimes 1:54:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:54:51 And you can cut and paste and move things to another file and start fresh and, like, explore it again.

Luke Grimes 1:54:58 This last album I did, we tried a, a really different process than I'd done before. Usually, you go into a studio. You know, there's a lot of money behind it. You got a big producer who has, you know, you're taking up their time. You have everything ready to go. But, um, on this new one, we did every- there's only two songs I'd had already written, and eight out of the 10 songs we wrote either the day of or the night before in the studio, because-I wanted to make something as personal as possible because, you know, the subject matter is stuff where I'm like i- if this is gimmicky or, or overthought, it's not-- Uh, then I'm, I'm sort of trying to like capitalize on grief or things I'm talking about.

Joe Rogan 1:55:37 Mm.

Luke Grimes 1:55:38 So I wanna go in and just be as open as possible and just get what we get and just try to, you know, tell the truth, which is, you know, that's the goal of country really-

Joe Rogan 1:55:46 Right

Luke Grimes 1:55:46 ... or it used to be. And so yeah, we would, um, we would cut and then a- in the night after we'd cut, we'd sit and try to write the song for the next day, and if we didn't get it, we'd show up early the next day and try to write the song for that day. And it was an amazing process. We called it the pressure cooker, 'cause it was just like, "You better get something-"

Joe Rogan 1:56:04 Mm.

Luke Grimes 1:56:04 "... 'cause you're on the clock."

Joe Rogan 1:56:05 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:56:06 And man, it was, it was, um... I, I don't, I doubt I'll ever do that again, but what a like cathartic, amazing process. Like there-- 'Cause usually you, you'll write a song, you'll have a demo for it, some- something where you just sit down and play guitar into your phone or something, just so you'll remember the melody, remember the chords, and you listen to it so much that you get sick of it before you've ever even cut it. And with this, there was never a demo. There was never... It was straight from, you know, heart-brain tape. Like it was, it was pretty special.

Joe Rogan 1:56:33 I think there's something to be said for pressure like that, where it forces you, it forces you-

Luke Grimes 1:56:39 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:56:39 ... to come up with something.

Luke Grimes 1:56:40 Yeah, the pressure cooker, man. We just, we had to, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:56:43 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:56:44 It was kind of... It was, it was amazing. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:56:45 Yeah, it just like forces your synapses to fire.

Luke Grimes 1:56:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56:48 There's something to be said for that. Like there's a... That's the thing about comedy too, when you, when you have a new bit, like part of the thing is like take that bit when it's not really done yet and just throw it out there in front of a crowd-

Luke Grimes 1:57:01 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:57:01 ... and find the beats, find where it is. And sometimes in front of a crowd, as you're saying it, you'll have a new idea. Like, "Eh, what the fuck is this?"

Luke Grimes 1:57:11 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:57:11 Like, "Why are we doing..." And then that'll be the biggest part of the joke. Like everybody will laugh-

Luke Grimes 1:57:15 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:57:15 ... harder at that part than anything else, and it just comes to you 'cause you're under pressure.

Luke Grimes 1:57:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57:21 Yeah. There's something about, there's something about forcing your brain to do things, like forcing your... Like, you just like l- you like you have to do it. Like you can't just dilly-dally. No procrastination. It's right there, right now.

Luke Grimes 1:57:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57:34 Let's go.

Luke Grimes 1:57:35 Yeah. I mean, 'cause you're, you're directly connected to whatever the thing is.

Joe Rogan 1:57:38 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:57:39 It's a, it's like a flow state.

Joe Rogan 1:57:41 And then there's stuff that just comes to me. Like John Mellencamp told me he wrote "Hurt So Good" in the shower.

Luke Grimes 1:57:46 Really? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:57:47 It was just in the shower.

Luke Grimes 1:57:48 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:57:48 "Come on, baby, you make it hurt so good."

Luke Grimes 1:57:51 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:57:51 And he's like, "It was done."

Luke Grimes 1:57:53 Best shower ever.

Joe Rogan 1:57:53 [laughs] Crazy. "Sometimes love don't feel like it should." [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:57:58 [laughs] Washing his armpits.

Joe Rogan 1:58:01 [laughs] He was cool. He was an interesting guy to talk to, man. Fucking dude just chain smokes. He's in his 70s just-

Luke Grimes 1:58:08 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:58:08 ... chain smoking. He was so happy he could smoke in here. And I was like, "You're not gonna quit that ever?"

Luke Grimes 1:58:15 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:58:15 He's like... This is what he said. He goes, "Find something you love and let it kill you."

Luke Grimes 1:58:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:58:20 Wow.

Luke Grimes 1:58:21 I don't know if I'll let that, that one kill me.

Joe Rogan 1:58:23 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 1:58:23 That's a rough, that's a rough death, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:58:25 That's a rough death, man.

Luke Grimes 1:58:26 Yeah. I'm, uh... I've, I've dealt with smoking for some time.

Joe Rogan 1:58:30 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:58:30 And, uh, I always promised my wife that I would quit when we had our kid, and, uh, we're almost there. We're getting close.

Joe Rogan 1:58:37 You got the nicotine pouches?

Luke Grimes 1:58:38 I got the ZYNs.

Joe Rogan 1:58:39 Do those help?

Luke Grimes 1:58:39 They do help.

Joe Rogan 1:58:40 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:58:40 Yeah. It's, it's, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:58:42 It's a different delivery, though

Luke Grimes 1:58:42 ... when I have a drink, though, it's-

Joe Rogan 1:58:44 Oh, yeah.

Luke Grimes 1:58:45 The, it's like I can't do one without the other. I'm-

Joe Rogan 1:58:47 Right

Luke Grimes 1:58:47 ... to quit smoking, I'm gonna have to quit drinking.

Joe Rogan 1:58:49 Really?

Luke Grimes 1:58:50 Have to.

Joe Rogan 1:58:50 Wow.

Luke Grimes 1:58:51 I c- I just can't imagine one without the other. It's like a package deal for me. But I'm okay to quit drinking at some point. You've quit, right?

Joe Rogan 1:58:57 Yeah. I quit and then started again.

Luke Grimes 1:59:00 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 1:59:00 Yeah, I started-

Luke Grimes 1:59:01 You're back?

Joe Rogan 1:59:01 I'm back.

Luke Grimes 1:59:01 [laughs] Nice.

Joe Rogan 1:59:02 I quit for like eight months. I didn't miss it, but then when I had a couple glasses of wine with dinner, I was like, "Ooh, I like this. This is nice."

Luke Grimes 1:59:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:59:11 I kinda missed it.

Luke Grimes 1:59:12 How was that first sorta hangover? Have you-

Joe Rogan 1:59:14 I didn't get hungover. I haven't gotten drunk.

Luke Grimes 1:59:16 Oh, good.

Joe Rogan 1:59:16 I, I haven't gotten hungover since.

Luke Grimes 1:59:18 Nice.

Joe Rogan 1:59:19 Uh, and I've only been drinking again... And even when I do, it's rare. Like, I don't drink every night I go on stage. I, I might have like a drink before I go on stage, or I'll have a drink with dinner or maybe a second glass of wine, but that's it. I haven't been drunk.

Luke Grimes 1:59:37 That's perfect.

Joe Rogan 1:59:38 Yeah. The getting drunk is the problem.

Luke Grimes 1:59:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:59:41 And the, the real problem with me was, like, I was... I own this comedy club, and I was with my friends, and they're all animals. And they're all just like, "Let's do shots." And we'd go downstairs to Mitzi's bar, and we'd be doing shots together, and we'd have so much fucking fun, and then I'd wake up in the morning to work out and be like, "Oh, fuck."

Luke Grimes 1:59:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:59:59 And I was just hurting, so I'd be guzzling water and electrolytes, and I'd get in the cold plunge, and it just... But it was just this struggle to try to get back to normal.

Luke Grimes 2:00:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:00:09 And I'm like, "I hate that. I don't like that."

Luke Grimes 2:00:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:00:12 But I don't feel that with a glass of wine. I have a glass of wine or two, and I feel great the next day. It does not, doesn't bother me at all. As long as I drink enough water, take electrolytes, get a good night's sleep, I feel totally normal in the morning.

Luke Grimes 2:00:25 That's good.

Joe Rogan 2:00:26 Getting drunk is the problem.

Luke Grimes 2:00:28 It is fun, though.

Joe Rogan 2:00:29 It's the best.

Luke Grimes 2:00:29 Getting drunk is so much fun.

Joe Rogan 2:00:30 Getting drunk with buddies-

Luke Grimes 2:00:32 Oh, the best

Joe Rogan 2:00:33 ... it's the best.

Luke Grimes 2:00:33 One of my favorite things is, like, going to a bar in the middle of the day and meeting everyone at the bar and just drinking. You know, even if they're strangers, or at the airport bar or whatever.

Joe Rogan 2:00:43 Mm-hmm.

Luke Grimes 2:00:43 And just, like, getting to know people I would never have talked to-

Joe Rogan 2:00:47 Right

Luke Grimes 2:00:47 ... to begin with, because why would we talk?

Joe Rogan 2:00:49 Right.

Luke Grimes 2:00:49 I love that. But again, I'm 42 now, and the hangovers are starting to, to really smart.

Joe Rogan 2:00:54 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:00:54 You know? So it's not, it's not really worth the price of admission anymore.

Joe Rogan 2:00:59 It's, it's not worth it when you get aware of your body, especially if you're a person like... You know, I work out all the time, and I'm 58 now. So as you get older, [clears throat] it's like most people at 58 are half dead. They're kind of falling apart.

Luke Grimes 2:01:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:14 And I've managed to stay healthy and fit, and I don't wanna fuck that up just for booze. But, you know, like I said, it's, it's hard when you're with buddies and they wanna do shots. Like, Shane Gillis is the worst. He's the devil.

Luke Grimes 2:01:26 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:01:27 That mother- [laughs]

Luke Grimes 2:01:28 He's the devil. He's the devil. He's like, "Come on, we're doing shots."

2:01:33 How do you, yeah, how can you not get drunk with that guy?

Joe Rogan 2:01:35 He's so fun.

Luke Grimes 2:01:35 He seems like the m- most fun ever.

Joe Rogan 2:01:37 And you're having so much fun. When you, when you're drinking with him, it is just like your face is red, you can't breathe.

Luke Grimes 2:01:44 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:01:44 Ev- you, everyone's laughing. You're fucking crying.

Luke Grimes 2:01:47 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:01:47 You're crying laughing, and it's just like you call each other the next day, like, "How you feeling?" "Oh my God, I'm dead."

Luke Grimes 2:01:53 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:01:53 Like there's a lot of times where we went out drinking and w- we have a gym here, and, you know, we'd have these comedian workouts the next day, and he'd be like, "Dude, I can't make it." I'm like, "Come on pussy."

Luke Grimes 2:02:02 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:02:02 "You made me drink last night." But he's just, he's the life of the fucking party, man. And it's just, it's fun. But it's, it just, it comes at a cost.

Luke Grimes 2:02:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:02:12 That c- that cost is rough, man.

Luke Grimes 2:02:14 Especially with the kid now-

Joe Rogan 2:02:15 Mm-hmm

Luke Grimes 2:02:15 ... and him being the age he is. It's just, I... Nothing makes you feel like a bigger piece of shit than being hungover in front of your baby.

Joe Rogan 2:02:21 Right.

Luke Grimes 2:02:22 And you're just like, "Sorry, dude."

Joe Rogan 2:02:23 Right. I know.

Luke Grimes 2:02:24 [laughs] "I'm your dad. I'm sorry."

Joe Rogan 2:02:25 Right. Your kids wanna play and you're like, "I'm gonna just sit here."

Luke Grimes 2:02:28 Yeah. It-

Joe Rogan 2:02:29 "I'm gonna just sit here"

Luke Grimes 2:02:29 ... it's not all right, you know?

Joe Rogan 2:02:31 Yeah. You can mitigate a lot of that stuff, though. Glutathione is a really good way to mitigate a lot of it. Um, glutathione actually helps your body process alcohol way quicker.

Luke Grimes 2:02:40 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:02:40 So, um, there's a lot of strategies if you're a drunk. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 2:02:44 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:02:45 Glutathione-

Luke Grimes 2:02:45 A lot of workarounds.

Joe Rogan 2:02:46 Yeah, liposomal glutathione in high doses is really good. Uh, electrolytes are huge. Like a lit- a lot of the h- hangover feeling, there's two things that are going on. One is your bo- that's why they say, like, um, hair of the dog that bit you.

Luke Grimes 2:03:00 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:03:01 Because you're actually craving more alcohol. That's why people like Bloody Marys the day after they're-

Luke Grimes 2:03:05 Right

Joe Rogan 2:03:06 ... they're hungover. That's not a great strategy, but it really does do a little something. But, uh, electrolytes are huge, 'cause another part of it is you're just dehydrated. Like-

Luke Grimes 2:03:15 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:03:16 ... your brain is m- dried out. It's a dried out sponge 'cause you're out getting hammered the night before.

Luke Grimes 2:03:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:03:22 So you gotta drink a lot of water, drink a lot of... A buddy of mine drank with, uh, Jean-Claude Van Damme once, and he said it was nuts. He goes, "He's so disciplined." He said the dude had a gallon of water with him.

Luke Grimes 2:03:33 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:03:33 Like a jug of water.

Luke Grimes 2:03:34 Like people take to the gym.

Joe Rogan 2:03:35 And with every shot he would take, he would fucking chug water.

Luke Grimes 2:03:39 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:03:40 And he just was just super concerned with keeping his body hydrated while he was boozing.

Luke Grimes 2:03:46 Yeah. Gotta do what you gotta do, man.

Joe Rogan 2:03:47 I was like, "Credit to him."

Luke Grimes 2:03:49 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:03:49 "That's the way to go." He goes, "I never saw anybody do that before." I'm like, "Well, look at the guy."

Luke Grimes 2:03:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:03:53 Kinda makes sense.

Luke Grimes 2:03:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:03:55 You know? It's like-

Luke Grimes 2:03:56 Have you interviewed him in here?

Joe Rogan 2:03:57 No.

Luke Grimes 2:03:57 Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:03:57 No.

Luke Grimes 2:03:58 That'd be a good one.

Joe Rogan 2:03:58 That'd be fun.

Luke Grimes 2:03:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:03:59 He's kinda crazy. He, uh, he keeps talking about having a fight and coming back and-

Luke Grimes 2:04:04 Oh, damn

Joe Rogan 2:04:04 ... I'm like, "Bro, you're like 70."

Luke Grimes 2:04:05 Yeah. No, don't do that.

Joe Rogan 2:04:07 I think he's just a little nuts. He's also... He's famously indulged in the Colombian marching powder.

Luke Grimes 2:04:14 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 2:04:14 And I think, you know, sometimes guys get ideas-

Luke Grimes 2:04:17 Sure

Joe Rogan 2:04:17 ... that aren't really tenable.

Luke Grimes 2:04:19 Thank God I never had the, the taste for that.

Joe Rogan 2:04:21 I never even tried it.

Luke Grimes 2:04:22 Have you never?

Joe Rogan 2:04:23 Nope.

Luke Grimes 2:04:23 Definitely done it, but it's just... Yeah, uh, I have friends that they can't have a drink without wanting to go get a bag, and I'm like-

Joe Rogan 2:04:29 Oh, boy

Luke Grimes 2:04:29 ... n- and that, those guys have to get s- sober, like-

Joe Rogan 2:04:32 Yeah

Luke Grimes 2:04:32 ... stone cold AA sober. Like, 'cause they'll disappear.

Joe Rogan 2:04:35 Well, they'll also die today-

Luke Grimes 2:04:37 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:04:37 ... 'cause you can get a bad bag and it's got fentanyl in it, you know?

Luke Grimes 2:04:40 I don't get it. I, I just never... It's like i- five minutes of feeling good for like three days of feeling terrible is not-

Joe Rogan 2:04:47 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 2:04:48 ... it doesn't pencil out for me, man.

Joe Rogan 2:04:50 I got lucky that when I was a, a kid in high school, I had a, a friend, and his cousin got addicted to coke, and I, I watched what happened to him. He was selling it, too, and I watched him completely fall apart. It was like, it, it was like he had been haunted, like something had taken over his body-

Luke Grimes 2:05:07 Oh, man

Joe Rogan 2:05:07 ... like a parasite. He lost all his weight. He got super pale. He got real sketchy and weird, and would just hang out in his apartment, and they would just w- watch TV and do coke all day. It was nuts.

Luke Grimes 2:05:16 Oh, yikes.

Joe Rogan 2:05:17 It was horrible.

Luke Grimes 2:05:18 That's dark.

Joe Rogan 2:05:19 And I, I was always terrified of doing anything that would turn me into a loser. That was my number one fear when I was a kid. I don't wanna be a loser.

Luke Grimes 2:05:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:05:26 And so, like, I'm like, "Okay, stay away from drugs 'cause that, that'll turn you into a loser."

Luke Grimes 2:05:30 Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's sort of... Like, there's some sort of gift in, like, having some ambition.

Joe Rogan 2:05:34 Oh, yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:05:35 You know? And, like, wanting to be somebody.

Joe Rogan 2:05:36 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:05:37 You know? That, that can come with, uh... There's pros and cons to that, but one of the, the big pros is, like, any time anything would get a little too dark, and I realized I was losing my grasp on, like, what I was after, you know, professionally or whatever, I would, uh, I would course correct pretty quick.

Joe Rogan 2:05:51 Yeah, and if you don't have a thing, then it's just about whatever is fun, and what's fun is continuing to chase whatever-

Luke Grimes 2:05:58 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:05:58 ... high or whatever drunk or whatever, whatever it is that your, your demons are.

Luke Grimes 2:06:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:06:04 That's rough.

Luke Grimes 2:06:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:06:05 I've seen a lot of people lose their life that way. I mean, they, they lose their direction. They lose everything. You know, it's just... Substances can be fun, but they can take over.

Luke Grimes 2:06:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:06:18 And they can become your whole fucking life.

Luke Grimes 2:06:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:06:21 You know? Not good.

Luke Grimes 2:06:22 No.

Joe Rogan 2:06:23 Yeah. I'm, I'm so happy I avoided coke. I avoid... But I am interested.

Luke Grimes 2:06:27 [laughs] It's pretty late, dude.

Joe Rogan 2:06:29 When I heard Hunter Thompson... Uh, n- not Hunter Thompson, Hunter Biden, excuse me, talk about smoking crack. He did this interview where he was talking about how amazing smoking crack is. I was like, "Wow, maybe I could try it once." [laughs]

Luke Grimes 2:06:42 [laughs] I don't think... I've never heard anybody, like, try it once, though.

Joe Rogan 2:06:45 No.

Luke Grimes 2:06:46 And, um-

Joe Rogan 2:06:46 That's famous last words, man.

Luke Grimes 2:06:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:06:48 No one's done it once.

Luke Grimes 2:06:49 I mean, everybody who tries it gets hooked. It seems like that's a problem.

Joe Rogan 2:06:52 Must be pretty awesome.

Luke Grimes 2:06:54 It's gotta be.

Joe Rogan 2:06:54 It's gotta be the best thing ever. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 2:06:56 And he said, like, it's way better than cocaine. Like, he said, like, the guy who's interviewing him... What's that guy's name again?

Joe Rogan 2:07:02 Andrew Callahan.

Luke Grimes 2:07:02 An- Andrew Cal- Callahan?

Joe Rogan 2:07:03 Mm-hmm.

Luke Grimes 2:07:04 He, when he was interviewing him, he's like, "What is the difference?" And he explained, like, the delivery method, like how it affects you. It's so much different. Like the difference between, like, a Zyn pouch and a cigarette.

Joe Rogan 2:07:13 Right.

Luke Grimes 2:07:13 Cigarette hits you way differently-

Joe Rogan 2:07:15 Oh, yeah

Luke Grimes 2:07:15 ... than a Zyn. A cigarette's, like, instantly, like, whoa.

Joe Rogan 2:07:18 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:07:19 Apparently that's what coke's like, smoking it. Well, it was Richard Pryor, too. I mean, he was essentially smoking crack. They didn't call it crack back then. They called it freebasing.

Joe Rogan 2:07:27 Right.

Luke Grimes 2:07:27 But it's the same thing.

Joe Rogan 2:07:29 Heroin, too, is another one. It's like those are the two big ones they tell you, and you're like-

Luke Grimes 2:07:32 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:07:32 ... you do this once-

Luke Grimes 2:07:33 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:07:33 ... you're done. Your whole life's over.

Luke Grimes 2:07:35 Yeah. I would imagine. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:38 I've, I've, I've known people that have tried heroin once and been like, "I can't do this again. It was too awesome."

Luke Grimes 2:07:43 [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 2:07:44 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:07:44 Yeah. I do that with, like, painkillers and stuff.

Joe Rogan 2:07:47 Mm.

Luke Grimes 2:07:47 You know, I've been prescribed and I'm like, "Oh, yeah. I l- I love it."

Joe Rogan 2:07:50 I had a knee operation-

Luke Grimes 2:07:51 I gotta not do that

Joe Rogan 2:07:52 ... well, I have multiple knee operations, but one, the first one that I had was in the '90s, and, uh, they gave me a morphine drip, and they give you a button, and you could press the button to get more morphine when you needed it. Oh my God, I hammered that button.

Luke Grimes 2:08:05 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:08:05 I was just lying, lying in this bed, and my knee had just been cut open like a fish, and there's screws in there, and my ACL had been reconstructed, and I was on this perpetual motion machine. So the idea is to keep your knee from going stiff, you're on this thing that straightens your leg out and brings it back and straight... So I'm lying in this bed, my leg is going ng, ng, and I'm hammering that button. I was so happy.

Luke Grimes 2:08:26 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:08:26 I was like, "I get it now. I get it." [laughs]

Luke Grimes 2:08:32 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:08:32 But that was only once, luckily. And they didn't give me... They gave me some painkillers afterwards. Um, I think they gave me Percocets, but they were so b- I, I took whatever the dose was, and it was... I only did it once. It was so bad. I felt so dumb-

Luke Grimes 2:08:45 Hm

Joe Rogan 2:08:46 ... and so dull and so stupid. I'm like, "I'd rather be in pain." So I, I sold all my pills to this dude at the pool hall.

Luke Grimes 2:08:52 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:08:53 I, I gave him my pills and my tear. "You can buy these from me."

Luke Grimes 2:08:56 One of my buddies was telling me, he's, uh, in the military, and they would carry these morphine lollipops in case they ever got shot, and you just pull it out, and the moment you start sucking on it, it's just like a morphine high.

Joe Rogan 2:09:06 Wow.

Luke Grimes 2:09:06 And I was like, "I kinda wanna get those to fly with."

Joe Rogan 2:09:09 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 2:09:09 'Cause wouldn't that be awesome? Like, if the plane's going down, you just start sucking on that thing, you'd be fine.

Joe Rogan 2:09:13 Yeah, just put on the headphones. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. [laughs]

Luke Grimes 2:09:19 It'd be amazing, dude. Anytime I fly over the ocean, I'm just like, I freak out. I don't like the, I don't like the idea.

Joe Rogan 2:09:24 It's actually now a fentanyl lollipop.

Luke Grimes 2:09:27 Oh. Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:09:28 So...

Luke Grimes 2:09:28 Maybe that's what it was.

Joe Rogan 2:09:29 Gotta be stronger.

Luke Grimes 2:09:31 Either way, though, wouldn't that be... I mean, that's, like, biggest fear, number one, is plane going down.

Joe Rogan 2:09:36 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:09:37 'Cause you have, like, five minutes-

Joe Rogan 2:09:39 A long time to think about it

Luke Grimes 2:09:40 ... to think about it, and you're hearing, like-

Joe Rogan 2:09:41 Yeah

Luke Grimes 2:09:41 ... everyone screaming. Everyone knows they're gonna die too, and you're stuck in this tube with a bunch of strangers knowing they're gonna die for five minutes.

Joe Rogan 2:09:48 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:09:48 I mean, that is hell on earth to me.

Joe Rogan 2:09:50 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:09:50 I can't imagine anything worse.

Joe Rogan 2:09:51 That's a rough one. I think getting eaten by a bear might be worse 'cause there's no one around you.

Luke Grimes 2:09:57 I wonder, though, for the bear thing, if you're in so much shock, like, are you feeling it? I, you know, I wonder if-

Joe Rogan 2:10:02 I bet you are.

Luke Grimes 2:10:03 You think so?

Joe Rogan 2:10:03 Especially if they start legs first.

Luke Grimes 2:10:05 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:10:06 'Cause the thing about bears is they don't kill you. They just start eating you.

Luke Grimes 2:10:09 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 2:10:10 Like a salmon.

Luke Grimes 2:10:11 Ruthless.

Joe Rogan 2:10:11 They don't kill a salmon. They just [slaps table] hold it down-

Luke Grimes 2:10:13 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:10:13 ... pull chunks off of it.

Luke Grimes 2:10:14 Yikes.

Joe Rogan 2:10:15 Apparently, that movie Grizzly Man, the audio was so bad that Werner Herzog told the lady to delete it and burn it 'cause, uh, they had a co- the, the la- uh, the guy's, uh, Timothy Treadwell, his girlfriend, his ex-girlfriend got ahold of the, the camera. So the camera, apparently the lens cover was on, but the, the camera was running.

Luke Grimes 2:10:36 Oh, right. Yeah, I've seen that.

Joe Rogan 2:10:37 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:10:37 Where he listens to it in the documentary.

Joe Rogan 2:10:39 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:10:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:10:39 He's like, "Burn this. Don't let anyone listen."

Luke Grimes 2:10:43 Oof. Would you listen-

Joe Rogan 2:10:44 Yeah

Luke Grimes 2:10:44 ... if given the chance?

Joe Rogan 2:10:45 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:10:46 I think I might do it.

Joe Rogan 2:10:46 Yeah, I'd do it.

Luke Grimes 2:10:47 I probably do.

Joe Rogan 2:10:47 Yeah, everybody would listen.

Luke Grimes 2:10:48 And then I'd hate myself for having done it.

Joe Rogan 2:10:49 There's a fake version of it online that I've-

Luke Grimes 2:10:51 I've heard that. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:10:52 Yeah, it's not real, though. It's pretty obvious that it's fake, but people believe it's real. But, uh, it goes on for five minutes.

Luke Grimes 2:10:59 Oof.

Joe Rogan 2:11:00 Five minutes is a long time. Like, think of a, a round, an MMA round. It's five minutes.

Luke Grimes 2:11:05 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 2:11:06 And all that time, you're just getting chunks pulled out of your body.

Luke Grimes 2:11:09 Ugh, bro.

Joe Rogan 2:11:10 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:11:10 Have you ever seen a grizzly while you're hunting?

Joe Rogan 2:11:12 Yeah, once.

Luke Grimes 2:11:13 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:11:13 Yeah, in Alberta. Yeah. It was, uh, very scary. And it wasn't a big one. It was like a six-foot bear. But it looked at me so different than any other animal. Like, I've seen a lot of black bear, and black bear look at you like this, like, "Who are you? What are you doing around here?"

Luke Grimes 2:11:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:11:30 "What are you..." They look at you sideways, and they're like, "Uh, I wanna get out of here." Grizzly looks at you like this.

Luke Grimes 2:11:36 Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:11:36 Like, locks on you.

Luke Grimes 2:11:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:38 Like, "Am I gonna eat you?"

Luke Grimes 2:11:39 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:11:40 And, uh, I was with my friend Jen. She's a guide up there. Jen and John, they run a, um, a hunting outfit up in Alberta. And, um, they, uh, uh, as soon as, like, she saw it, she screamed. She screamed like, "Get the fuck out of here." Sh- sh- she racks her shotgun, cracks a stick against the, the, uh, the tree to scare it off, and then we immediately bailed. We're like, "Let's get the fuck out of here."

Luke Grimes 2:12:04 Yeah. I've never seen one. Don't want to.

Joe Rogan 2:12:06 They see big ones up there sometimes. And, uh, John, um, the, her husband, he sprayed, um, one. He was in a tree stand, and he sprayed it with, uh, pepper spray, and the thing didn't even react.

Luke Grimes 2:12:20 [exhales]

Joe Rogan 2:12:21 He's like, like, "You think you're gonna... Oh, bear spray. I'm safe." Sh.

Luke Grimes 2:12:24 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:12:24 And it was like, "Fuck you."

Luke Grimes 2:12:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:12:26 It's just, like, this fucking nine-foot bear, this huge wild dog, you know? This h- this fucking immense, super powerful thing that can run 45 miles an hour.

Luke Grimes 2:12:38 Oh, man. Apex.

Joe Rogan 2:12:39 Fuck that, man. They're s- they're terrifying. Montana's got a ton of them.

Luke Grimes 2:12:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:12:44 Like, a ton of them.

Luke Grimes 2:12:44 That's one thing I didn't have in Ohio, is, like, the fear of getting eaten by something when you're out in the woods.

Joe Rogan 2:12:49 Oh, yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:12:49 And it's dark, and you're walking through. The first time that, that bow hunt I was telling you about, I... You know, you bring a sidearm when you- all you have is a bow in case you do see-

Joe Rogan 2:12:57 Mm-hmm

Luke Grimes 2:12:57 ... some mountain lion or something, grizzly bear. And my buddy was like, "What do you got on you?" And I was like, "It's a 9mm."

Joe Rogan 2:13:03 [laughs]

Luke Grimes 2:13:03 He goes, "Well, if you see one, shoot yourself." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:13:07 [laughs] Yeah, you gotta bring a .45.

Luke Grimes 2:13:12 Well, I guess there's a, there's a 10mm with a special round you can take.

Joe Rogan 2:13:15 Mm-hmm.

Luke Grimes 2:13:15 But yeah, 9mm bounce off.

Joe Rogan 2:13:17 Yeah. I mean, you're gonna hurt him. I mean, if you hit him in the face, maybe it'll do something. But you're not even gonna get through that skull probably.

Luke Grimes 2:13:24 No, they say it won't.

Joe Rogan 2:13:26 Oh.

Luke Grimes 2:13:26 It'll literally bounce off his skull.

Joe Rogan 2:13:28 Brr.

Luke Grimes 2:13:28 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 2:13:29 That's so crazy.

Luke Grimes 2:13:31 [laughs] I know.

Joe Rogan 2:13:31 And Cam hunts them with a bow.

Luke Grimes 2:13:34 Hunts grizzly bears?

Joe Rogan 2:13:34 Yeah. Yeah, he's killed a few grizzlies with a bow.

Luke Grimes 2:13:37 Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:13:37 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:13:38 Does he hunt out of a tree? How do you do that?

Joe Rogan 2:13:40 On the ground.

Luke Grimes 2:13:41 No, dude. Why?

Joe Rogan 2:13:42 Spot and stalk.

Luke Grimes 2:13:43 Oof.

Joe Rogan 2:13:43 Yeah.

Luke Grimes 2:13:44 I'm good on that.

Joe Rogan 2:13:45 Yeah, he's out of his fucking mind.And his attitude is, "Well, if this is how I go, this is how I go. I go doing what I love."

Speaker 2:13:54 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:13:54 He's got some crazy pictures. See if you can find some pictures of Cam with a grizzly bear. He's got one where he killed this massive one, and he's holding up its paw, and its paw is, like, as big as my torso.

Speaker 2:14:05 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 2:14:05 It's fucking huge. [laughs] It's fucking, it's fucking huge.

Speaker 2:14:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:14:09 There's such a ... Some guy, uh, uh, recently, I think he killed the biggest bear that's ever been killed. Um, I sent it to Cam.

Speaker 2:14:18 Oh, damn, dude.

Joe Rogan 2:14:19 Yeah. Look at that paw.

Speaker 2:14:20 Look at the claws.

Joe Rogan 2:14:21 Look at the claws on that thing.

Speaker 2:14:22 No way.

Joe Rogan 2:14:22 Yeah. And there's a photo of him with the bear on the ground. Click on that. Look at the size of that fucking thing, man.

Speaker 2:14:29 Do you know what state he's hunting in?

Joe Rogan 2:14:30 That was in Alaska.

Speaker 2:14:31 Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:14:31 That's the only state you can hunt them.

Speaker 2:14:32 I was gonna say, it's probably illegal in most-

Joe Rogan 2:14:34 Yeah. It's illegal in the lower 48 for whatever reason. Um, they sh- it probably shouldn't be in, like, Wyoming and Montana. It's gotten to the place where they really probably shouldn't. Um-

Speaker 2:14:47 Maybe there's just not enough of them other than in Alaska, I would imagine.

Joe Rogan 2:14:51 Um, I mean, I don't think so. I think the real problem is once they're not listed, it's very difficult to get them on, on a list. You know, uh, to get tags allocated for them. There's a, the video of him shooting it.

Speaker 2:15:09 Damn.

Joe Rogan 2:15:10 Look at the size of that fucking thing, man.

Speaker 2:15:12 That's what I'm saying. What if it's just right there, gets pissed off-

Joe Rogan 2:15:14 It can

Speaker 2:15:15 ... and just runs at you?

Joe Rogan 2:15:15 Well, there's a guy right behind him with a gun. There's a guy right behind him-

Speaker 2:15:18 Oh, okay

Joe Rogan 2:15:18 ... with a rifle, which is also weird. Like, anytime you're bow hunting and a guy has to have a rifle-

Speaker 2:15:23 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:15:23 ... I think you should probably just use a rifle. [laughs]

Speaker 2:15:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:15:26 That's just my perspective.

Speaker 2:15:28 Just wait a few months.

Joe Rogan 2:15:29 Yeah.

Speaker 2:15:29 Go back.

Joe Rogan 2:15:29 If I ever wanted to go grizzly hunting, I would definitely bring a rifle. I just don't see myself doing that, but I know a lot of my friends have. You know, and they have, you have to kill a certain number of them just to keep the populations of the moose and the elk and-

Speaker 2:15:42 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 2:15:43 ... everything else in check, because otherwise there's nothing gonna stop them, and then you have a situation like, like you have in Montana or like you have in Wyoming where there's a lot of