Joe Rogan Experience #2470 - Pierre Poilievre

Joe Rogan 0:00 [upbeat music]

Joe Rogan 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

Speaker 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] How are you, sir? Pleasure to meet you.

Speaker 0:14 It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Joe Rogan 0:16 My pleasure.

Speaker 0:16 Great to be back in Texas.

Joe Rogan 0:17 I'm glad we finally did this.

Speaker 0:19 Yes, me too.

Joe Rogan 0:19 I wanted to do it the first go around.

Speaker 0:21 Yeah, I know.

Joe Rogan 0:22 [laughs]

Speaker 0:22 Well, the w- when I got the invitation, we were in the m- in the middle of the election, and we just don't leave the country during election campaigns.

Joe Rogan 0:29 I get it.

Speaker 0:29 And, uh, the problem we've had is we can't get you to come to Canada, and so, uh, we've actually hatched a full strategy to get you into Canada.

Joe Rogan 0:37 Ah.

Speaker 0:38 'Cause we think it's gonna do big things for our tourism numbers. So do you mind if I present you with something right out of the gate?

Joe Rogan 0:43 Sure.

Speaker 0:44 All right. This is, uh, this is from a gunsmith and machinist in Calgary, Alberta. His name is Jay. And he's designed, uh ...

Joe Rogan 0:52 Look at this.

Speaker 0:52 Look at this kettlebell. Guess what the weight is.

Joe Rogan 0:55 Uh, 70 pounds?

Speaker 0:56 70 pounds.

Joe Rogan 0:57 Yeah.

Speaker 0:57 That's the, that's the weight you have. And it says on the front here, "Jamie" ... It says here on the front, "Jamie, pull it up."

Joe Rogan 1:03 [laughs]

Speaker 1:03 So you've got that. We've got, uh, let's see here, some other stuff, uh, for a stand. We've got, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:09 Oh, wow. That's really cool

Speaker 1:11 ... look at this stand here. So we've got, "Seeing is believing," which I think was the slogan of the first UFC that you were the commentator for. I think it was n- number 13?

Joe Rogan 1:20 12.

Speaker 1:21 Number 12, right?

Joe Rogan 1:22 Yeah.

Speaker 1:22 And then we've got here your favorite quote from, um, what's his name? The Japanese, uh, martial artist.

Joe Rogan 1:31 Miyamoto Musashi?

Speaker 1:31 Yes. And it says, "If you know the way broadly, you will see it in everything."

Joe Rogan 1:36 Yeah.

Speaker 1:36 So that's here. And then Morse code, there's a thank you letter for you.

Joe Rogan 1:40 [laughs]

Speaker 1:40 And we've got, you've got your flying saucer.

Joe Rogan 1:43 Oh, wow.

Speaker 1:43 And we've got, uh, your logo here, too. So, but most important of all, we've got a subliminal message, which is the Canadian maple leaf.

Joe Rogan 1:51 Oh, cool.

Speaker 1:52 So every time you do a kettlebell swing, you do a snatch, you do a clean, you're gonna be seeing that maple leaf, and you're gonna be reminding yourself that you need to come back to Canada.

Joe Rogan 2:01 All right.

Speaker 2:02 All right?

Joe Rogan 2:02 All right.

Speaker 2:03 So I'll present that to you there. Ah.

Joe Rogan 2:05 Thank you very much.

Speaker 2:06 That can go on there, too.

Joe Rogan 2:07 Very cool. Is that in the way, Jamie?

Speaker 2:09 I can take it off. We'll take it off. I'll just pick it up. Here, put it down here. So, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:16 There we go right there

Speaker 2:16 ... I saw your, I saw your, uh, interview with Pavel. Uh, and I'm a, I'm a big-

Joe Rogan 2:21 Yeah

Speaker 2:21 ... uh, kettlebell freak.

Joe Rogan 2:22 Are you really?

Speaker 2:22 Yeah, absolutely, and I started researching him after you had him on, and I was trying to ... I love history, so I was thinking, "Why did the Russians come up with this?" And, uh, it, it turns out they used it as a counterweight at the farmer markets. So they would say, you know, you come and you have to say, "This is how much potatoes you're buying." But instead of trying to do it by eyeball, they would put what is now a kettlebell on one side of the scale, and then the produce on the other. And then at the farmers' expeditions, you had these big Russian farmers who wanted to show how strong they were, so they would pick them up and do all kinds of, um, displays with them, and then it, then the Russian army took it on, the Soviet army took it on, and then that's where Pavel picked it up and then brought it over the Atlantic and, uh, introduced it to America.

Joe Rogan 3:08 Wow, that's crazy. So it was just accidental that they made this very functional tool for-

Speaker 3:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 3:14 ... fitness?

Speaker 3:15 Yeah, it was the, it was just you'd go to a farmers' market, you wanna buy some barley or some potatoes, but you don't know if you're actually getting the real weight. So they'd have a scale, a balancing scale, and they'd put the kettlebell on one side and the produce on the other, and then you knew you got the right amount. And then of course, they have these big farmers', um, farm fairs, and they're showing off their, their horses and their cattle and stuff, and they'd wanna do strength sh- uh, displays. So these farmers are throwing these things around, and the Russian military picked it up. And then the Soviets, of course, took over, and they took it on, and then Pavel, I think he was a Belarusian, though, if I'm not mistaken, Pavel-

Joe Rogan 3:50 I'm not sure

Speaker 3:50 ... Tsatsouline. And he brought it over to, uh, North America. But, uh, the ancient Chinese did it as well. You got, uh-

Joe Rogan 3:58 Really?

Speaker 3:58 Yeah, the ancient Chinese. The Shaolin monks have used them, but they didn't do it with cast iron. They had, theirs were sort of a concrete, a concrete block, and, uh, they u- they did it for strength training as well.

Joe Rogan 4:08 Oh, wow.

Speaker 4:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:10 Little history.

Speaker 4:10 Yeah, so I'm a big kettlebell freak. I, I love it. And, uh, I really, I started to study what Pavel's teaching. I wanna ... I think he has an accreditation or something. If I ever get time, I might take it.

Joe Rogan 4:20 Yeah, StrongFirst.

Speaker 4:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:21 Yeah, that's his, uh, organization.

Speaker 4:24 And you're doing, you have a whole program, I think. You, you do clean to press, and then-

Joe Rogan 4:29 Yeah

Speaker 4:29 ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:29 I do a bunch of different things with it.

Speaker 4:30 Squats with, uh-

Joe Rogan 4:31 Yeah

Speaker 4:31 ... overhead squat and all that. Does-

Joe Rogan 4:32 It's a great functional tool just for your whole body.

Speaker 4:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 4:36 You know, it's really one of the best pieces of exercise equipment I think I've ever found.

Speaker 4:41 Yeah, I think he calls it a, a cannonball on a handle. Um, and, uh, the thing I like about it is the, it's like a catap- catapult, like, it, all of the lift is in that, i- that instant where it fl- flips over your hand.

Joe Rogan 4:55 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4:56 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 4:56 Oh, so these are the-

Speaker 4:57 There you go

Joe Rogan 4:57 ... original ones. Wow, that's crazy. That's so interesting. So the handle was just to pick it up and carry it around.

Speaker 5:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:06 Wow.

Speaker 5:06 So it had a real functional use.

Joe Rogan 5:09 Well, it's just amazing how good it is for a piece of exercise equipment that was accidentally designed that way.

Speaker 5:16 Absolutely. And, uh, I think it's far superior to, uh, to a dumbbell exercise because there's no, uh ... A dumbbell, you get a c- you get a consistent lift, but that's not real life. If you're in a fight or you have to pick something up heavy, it doesn't lift consistently.

Joe Rogan 5:31 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5:31 It, it's, it's explosive in that small range. And when, you know, when you're doing a snatch, by the time y- you get up to your shoulder, the thing's weightless.

Joe Rogan 5:40 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5:40 Because the catapult, the catapult effect has taken over, and now it's actually negative weight. It's lifting your hand up in the air if you're doing it right. But, like, if you're in a fight or if you're in a wrestling match or you're, you're trying to push really hard against a heavy object, it's all about explosive power. And that's what kettlebells give, rather than just this sort of, uh, freeze and contract thing that you do with, with dumbbells.

Joe Rogan 6:02 Have you always been a workout guy?

Speaker 6:04 Yeah. Look, I, I was, um, big into sports until my mid-teens. I was on the wrestling team. I wasn't great. I was good, but I wasn't great. Um, then I got a, a wicked, uh, tendonitis in my shoulder.

Joe Rogan 6:16 Mm.

Speaker 6:16 And it ended myathleticism for like four years, and that's how I got into politics, 'cause I was so bored. I'd get, get home from school, I had nothing to do, so I took my, told my mother, "Take me-

Joe Rogan 6:25 Tendonitis got you into politics?

Speaker 6:27 Yeah, that's what it was. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 6:29 [laughs]

Speaker 6:29 I just couldn't get rid of it. Like I- e- every time I thought I had it beat, I'd go in and I'd train, and it would be full of inflammation. No one could do anything about it, and so I was like bored out of my mind, and I said to my mom, like, "You know, you go to these local meetings with the Conservative Association, like take me to that, 'cause I'm going crazy." And-

Joe Rogan 6:48 That's nuts.

Speaker 6:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:49 So that, so what, what, what were you interested in when you first went there? Like, we just didn't like the way things were running? Like, what, what was it about it that got you so curious?

Speaker 7:03 Well, I grew up in a suburban neighborhood in South, south end of Calgary. W- you know, and, and my folks were teachers. I was adopted. My mom was a 16-year-old un- uh, you know, she, she was a s- a s- obviously a single mom. She put me up for adoption to two schoolteachers. There was electricians, and oil workers, and police officers lived on our street. Normal, hardworking, good folks. And I always grew up with the impression they were getting screwed over, and that, um, the government didn't listen to people like them, didn't listen to people who grew up on streets like ours. And living in Western Canada, there was a greater sense of that. We called it Western alienation at the time. And there was this guy, kind of a quirky guy, but a really brilliant guy, named Preston Manning, and I saw this billboard of him, and he had his fist up and it said, "Enough." And I said, "Yeah, I like that guy." So I got involved in politics, and I started reading about different things. I start- I read a, a biography on Fidel Castro, and then I read some more-

Joe Rogan 8:00 Justin's dad.

Speaker 8:01 [laughs] No, no, not Justin's dad.

Joe Rogan 8:03 Right?

Speaker 8:04 No, no, no.

Joe Rogan 8:05 No?

Speaker 8:05 No. His dad was Pierre.

Joe Rogan 8:07 You sure? [laughs]

Speaker 8:07 His dad was Pierre. His dad was Pierre. I had issues with Pierre Trudeau too, because-

Joe Rogan 8:11 It is a great conspiracy theory, though.

Speaker 8:13 I- well, it is a hell of a... I don't think it's a true one, though. I, his dad is Pierre.

Joe Rogan 8:17 Unfortunately.

Speaker 8:18 His, his dad, um, was very controversial where I grew up 'cause he did a lot of damage to the oil sector, and we're from oil country. And so that was one of the things that I felt kind of resentful about the national government, and one of the reasons-

Joe Rogan 8:29 Mm

Speaker 8:30 ... I got involved is because the West deserved a fairer deal. And, uh, but I read a lot of books like, you know, Milton Friedman, Capitalism and Freedom, and I came to, to, to develop a philosophy based on just maximizing personal, financial, religious freedom. Let people make their own decisions. And that, that animated me to get involved in politics and fight for that, and I've been doing it ever since.

Joe Rogan 8:56 Wow, that's a fascinating transition from wrestling and tendonitis-

Speaker 9:01 Yeah

Joe Rogan 9:01 ... to getting deeply involved in politics.

Speaker 9:03 Yeah, I mean, like, you know, you're a sports guy. If you had suffered an injury that took you out of TaeKwonDo when you were young, and you s- you simply couldn't compete at anything, you'd probably be looking for some other adventure.

Joe Rogan 9:16 Yeah, we should've-

Speaker 9:17 That's how it was

Joe Rogan 9:17 ... well, we're lucky that stem cells weren't around back then, or you never would've gotten into politics.

Speaker 9:21 That's right.

Joe Rogan 9:22 [laughs]

Speaker 9:22 I would've been a, a wrestler. I don't know if I would've won any awards, but, uh, but yeah, that, that was how I got started, and, and I got, uh, very active very quickly. I got my first internship making 600 bucks a month, uh, when I was, uh, 16 or 17 years old. And, uh, would, you know, take, uh, two trains and a bus and an hour and 45 minutes each way, but I was so thrilled. My dad bought me a used suit and a used pair of shoes, and I thought, "This, I'm, this is so incredible. I'm an important guy. I wear dress shoes. I wear a, I wear a tie." Didn't matter that the tie was buy- bought from some dead guy whose family had sold it to a, a used store, but, uh, that was my start, and I loved it.

Joe Rogan 10:03 Well, uh, I'm really excited to have you in here, because I've seen you speak multiple times, and you're a very reasonable, intelligent person that makes a lot of sense, and that is, that is a rare thing in politics. And I love Canada. Like, I sh- I just say I don't go up there anymore, but it's because I, I, I think the government went horribly wrong over the last, you know, X amount of years, but the people are amazing. It's like, I was alw- I have always said that Canada has like, it's like America with, like, 20% less assholes.

Speaker 10:36 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 10:37 Like, every time I would go up there, I'm like, "People are so nice."

Speaker 10:40 It is true.

Joe Rogan 10:40 They're, they're like the nicest people.

Speaker 10:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:42 And I think that's part of what went wrong for Canada, is that people are rule followers and, you know, they're trusting and kind people, and, you know, this wolf in sheep's clothing snuck in and, you know, was pretending he was a sweet guy and passing all these crazy laws. And just when we saw what happened with COVID, with just, with what happened with the truckers and people's accounts getting shut down for donating to the truckers, like, the whole thing was so concerning because it's our... Canada was like a part of America almost. I mean, you're a different country, but it's like you used to be able to go over there with just a driver's license, you know? It was like, it was such a cool place to... I started going to the Montreal Comedy Festival in, like, 1993. I loved it up there. It's, like, one of my favorite places to visit.

Speaker 11:32 Is it the Just for Laughs? Juste pour Rire?

Joe Rogan 11:33 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 11:34 Good. How's your French?

Joe Rogan 11:36 Not good.

Speaker 11:36 Okay.

Joe Rogan 11:37 No.

Speaker 11:37 We'll work on that. We'll get you some French lessons.

Joe Rogan 11:38 [laughs] It's terrible. I don't know any French words. My wife is learning French, though. It's interesting. She's got this app that she's learning French. Um, but it's just an amazing place. It's a, it's a great country, and, um, to see it go the way it's been going and sliding the way it's been happening over the last, you know, X amount of years, there's just so many things that concern me, you know? One of the things that really concerns me is this, um, assisted suicide thing. That 1 in 20 deaths in Canada is now assisted suicide? That's insane.

Speaker 12:13 Well, listen, my, my view is that people should have the choice, but, uh, the concern we have is, uh, the suggestion that it would be offered to kids-

Joe Rogan 12:22 Right

Speaker 12:22 ... or offered to people whose only condition is ment- mental illness.

Joe Rogan 12:26 Right.

Speaker 12:27 I don't agree with that

Joe Rogan 12:28 My concern as well.

Speaker 12:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:29 I mean, if someone's got a terminal ill- like a good friend of mine-

Speaker 12:31 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 12:32 ... went to Oregon to end his life 'cause he had ALS.

Speaker 12:35 Okay.

Joe Rogan 12:36 But I mean, he was gone.

Speaker 12:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:37 I mean, he could barely talk at the end of his life. His name is Michael Lair. He was a regular guest on Kill Tony. Great guy.

Speaker 12:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:44 And it was horrible. I mean, watching him fade away, and he wanted to go out on his own terms.

Speaker 12:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 12:51 And so he went to Oregon for assisted suicide. And there's a place for it.

Speaker 12:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:54 But I mean, there was a kid recently in Canada, and he did it for seasonal depression. You- I'm sure you're aware of that case.

Speaker 13:03 I am.

Joe Rogan 13:03 Like, who, who allowed that to happen? Who didn't counsel this young guy?

Speaker 13:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:08 Who didn't give him a hug? Who didn't tell him about diet and exercise and changing your surroundings and your lifestyle, and just do something-

Speaker 13:16 Right

Joe Rogan 13:16 ... to give you some hope and happiness? Like, seasonal depression? Really?

Speaker 13:20 I know.

Joe Rogan 13:20 You're gonna end your life, this beautiful life on this planet, for seasonal depression? That's crazy.

Speaker 13:26 And that's why we have to do more to give people hope when they're suffering with mental illness.

Joe Rogan 13:30 Yes.

Speaker 13:30 Uh, you know, give people a ch- uh, the, the sense that they can take back control of their lives. Uh, I think we do have to promote fitness more because it gives people... It turns them into a subject that controls their, their surroundings rather than an object being controlled. It teaches people to, that, that hardship is temporary and that the aftermath is positive. And, uh, and we have to give people, reinstill people with a sense of meaning when they're going through hardship rather than, than to say that it's all over. And, uh, you know, I think, uh, we have to- our system needs to be geared towards giving people all the best law- options to live on rather than just suggesting MAID as the-

Joe Rogan 14:10 Right

Speaker 14:10 ... as the easy, as the, as the automatic path for the system to impose on people. So, uh, one of the things our party is pushing for is to make clear that public servants who are getting phone calls from people who are in need of help for something, they shouldn't be offering that. They shouldn't be offering MAID. People can seek it out if they want, but when you're calling up saying, "I'm poor," or, "I'm struggling," or, "I'm having a mental illness," or, "I'm- I've got an injury," uh, we shouldn't have a, a government worker saying, "Well, consider MAID."

Joe Rogan 14:40 Well, the, the unfortunate thing is that any organization that gets formed wants to grow, and you get-

Speaker 14:48 Right

Joe Rogan 14:49 ... financial incentives, and then you hire more people, and then it gets bigger, and then what do you have to do? Well, you have to keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker 14:57 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 14:57 Well, what are you doing? You're killing people. So you're gonna kill more people 'cause you're actually financially incentivized to put more people through this program and end their lives. That's, it's very sad.

Speaker 15:08 No, I think we have to get to, get to a point where people have the freedom to make their own decisions, but they also have hope that there is an option for them.

Joe Rogan 15:14 Yeah.

Speaker 15:14 And that's what we're trying to-

Joe Rogan 15:15 Give them a pathway.

Speaker 15:16 You know?

Joe Rogan 15:16 You know, and like-

Speaker 15:17 To do

Joe Rogan 15:17 ... the exercise thing, it's not just give them, you know, control of their life, but it makes them happier. It's, it, it show- there's been studies that show it's much more effective than antidepressants.

Speaker 15:27 Absolutely. Well, it's the ph- the, first of all, there's the phili- physiological side, which affects the brain, but it's also the sensation of discomfort that you push through-

Joe Rogan 15:36 Yes

Speaker 15:36 ... knowing that you have to focus on the thing you have to do. And, uh, that I think, it, it helps us in anything we're encountering, whether you're going through a divorce or a bankruptcy or an injury or an illness, if you know that pushing through to the other side because you've got a meaning there, that can give people hope for, for, for a better life. You know, my favorite psychologist is, uh, Viktor Frankl, Viktor Frankl, and he developed this, um, Lagos treatment, which was basically giving people a sense of meaning. He survived the Holocaust in the concentration camp because he had a sense of meaning, that he wanted to... His book was stolen from him in the concentration camp about this, this theory, and he wanted to live on so he could survive and write that book. And then he found his, w- in his teaching that it wasn't so much people's circumstances that determined their happiness, it was whether they had a meaning in life. And he tells this incredible story of a group therapy session where he had this very rich woman who was married to a very rich man, and he had n- next to him another lady who was living in terrible poverty. She'd lost a son and had a second severely disabled son. And he said to both of them, "What will your life look, look like when you're 80 years old and you're on your deathbed?" And the, the wealthier lady said, "Well, I will look back and think that I had some fun and enjoyed the simple, the, the, the luxuries of being very wealthy and having an easy life, that there wasn't a lot of meaning to it." And whereas the mother who was struggling with a disabled child and had lost another one said, "Well, I gave my first child a great life. A short one, but a great one. I struggled to give my disabled child a good, dignified existence, and I leave this world satisfied and happy that my life had purpose and meaning." And the lesson I take from that is that it, it is not about whether you have a gazillion dollars or whether your life is easy, it's whether you have some meaning to invest your, your, your life into. And I think we have to infuse people's lives with, with meaning so that they, that they can, they can live a good life.

Joe Rogan 17:39 Well, that's a great message, and I think that's one of the most important parts of being a leader is having a great message and having a great philosophy and having a great perspective. And I mean, that's what disturbed me the most about when Trudeau was running the country, that I, I didn't feel like... I felt, I felt like he was manipulating people with woke politics and ideology, and that it was just this weird slippery slope that people were falling down where they're losing rights and you're losing your ability to express yourself.

Speaker 18:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 18:12 And it just, it just really disturbed me because I always felt that Canada was, like, one of the freest places and one of the most open-minded places, and it just, I, I didn't understand how it could fall so quickly.

Speaker 18:25 We, we still... You know, we are a free country and we, we are a democracy. We have preserved that. Um, you know, my leader, my... I had this funny moment when Joe Biden came to Parliament Hill and I said, um, uh, "Mr. President, I'm Pierre Poilievre. I'm the leader of His Majesty's loyal opposition." And he said, "Loyal opposition?"How can you be loyal and opposition at the same time?

Joe Rogan 18:46 [laughs]

Speaker 18:47 It's like, what the hell are you talking about? And, uh, because y- you know, you guys have a r- a system based on the r- a republic, whereas ours is the British system. And in our system, the, the opposition is an act of loyalty. That's what our system... It means that if you are opposing the government, you are doing it out of loyalty to the good of the people. In our House of Commons, you have a half circle in your Congress, we have two sides in our Parliament. It's two and a half sword lengths apart because they used to literally kill each other in the old English days. But the idea is the opposition is to prosecute the hell out of the government, make the mighty low. The p- most powerful people in the country are supposed to tremble every time they walk in that place because know every mistake they made, every abuse of power, every corruption they might have done can be exposed and in front of all eyes. So our system is really designed to constrain the power of government through what we call Parliament. Like, I don't work for government, I work for Parliament, and Parliament works for the people. We call it the House of Commons because the, it's the house of the common people. It's green in there because they used to meet in the, in the fields of England. And so I really view the role of our Parliament to limit the power of government, to maximize the power of the people, make people bigger, stronger, and more fulfilled by having the government narrowly focus on the, on the things it's supposed to do. Roads, military, basic social safety net, borders, police, et cetera, but then leave people alone to live their lives. If I were to start a political party from scratch, it would be the Mind Your Own Damn Business Party. You know, just get the government to do its job well, do f- you know, do four or five things really well, and then let people live their lives.

Joe Rogan 20:28 Well, that sounds very reasonable.

Speaker 20:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:30 Yeah, I mean-

Speaker 20:30 It is

Joe Rogan 20:30 ... anybody that doesn't go along with that, anybody that's opposed to that, that doesn't even make sense.

Speaker 20:35 No, look, uh, m- like I said, w- the way I grew up and everything I've seen ever since, when I talk to farmers or factory workers, electricians, I find they know just as much or more than the so-called experts I encounter on Parliament Hill. Like back during COVID when all these governments were printing money, uh, and all the politicians and bankers said, "Oh, this is great. Uh, well, look at all this money we get to spend." I'd walk around communities and I'd have, like, mechanics say, "You know we're gonna have inflation." And, uh, I would say, "Yeah, it makes sense to me." And I'd go back to Parliament Hill, and the experts would all say, "No, no, there's not gonna be any inflation." And sure enough, all that money filtered into the economy, bid up all the goods we buy, and, and everybody got smoked with higher prices. But the point is that it was the, it was the common people who don't study this stuff for a living, who don't read endless reports and studies, who could just figure out that if there's money pouring into the economy that's not matched by goods and services, it's gonna bid up the cost of everything. So that's my experience and my lo- my ideology is the common guy knows how to make his own decisions. We need to empower him to do that.

Joe Rogan 21:43 Yeah, just stay out of people's lives.

Speaker 21:45 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 21:46 So there's a narrative in America, and the narrative is that you were about to win and your party was about to win, but then Trump came along and said he was gonna turn Canada into the 51st state.

Speaker 21:57 [laughs] And then-

Joe Rogan 21:57 And everybody went crazy. Is that accurate?

Speaker 21:59 I wouldn't say they went crazy. I mean, it w- like-

Joe Rogan 22:02 Well-

Speaker 22:02 It was a f-

Joe Rogan 22:02 ... they got very upset

Speaker 22:03 ... they should be upset, though. I mean, and-

Joe Rogan 22:05 Well, it's a crazy thing to say

Speaker 22:06 ... it is a crazy thing to say. Canada's not for sale. We're never gonna be the 51st state. Uh, you know, we love Americans, uh, as neighbors and friends, but we, we wanna be C- uniquely and s- uh, we wanna be sovereign as Canadians. It's our country. It's where we grow up. You're a patriot as an American. I'm a patriot as a Canadian. It's where my grandfather arrived. It's where our collective ancestors, uh, put on military uniforms and sailed to fight wars. It's where our grandkids are gonna live. We're very proudly Canadian. So we're never gonna be the 51st state, and I'd, I just wish he'd knock that shit off so that we can get back to talking about the things that, that we can do as two separate but, but two separate countries that are actually friends.

Joe Rogan 22:47 Did that really have that much of an effect up there? Like, did people take him seriously?

Speaker 22:53 [laughs] I think at, at first everyone thought it was a joke because we've always had these jokes like, you know, one day we're gonna take over Vermont and-

Joe Rogan 23:00 [laughs]

Speaker 23:01 ... Detroit should be part of Canada and all that stuff. But then he kept saying it and saying it and, uh, you know, it became un, uh, it became, uh... A lot of people got upset about it, and I think understandably so.

Joe Rogan 23:13 Understandably.

Speaker 23:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:14 Yeah.

Speaker 23:14 So-

Joe Rogan 23:14 I mean, it's a crazy thing to say.

Speaker 23:16 It is a crazy thing to say [laughs] and it, it was never gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 23:18 I talked to him on the phone about it. It was, like, so funny. He's like, "At first I was joking, but then people were like, 'It's a good idea.'"

Speaker 23:24 [laughs] No, no.

Joe Rogan 23:24 Like, that's not a good idea.

Speaker 23:26 Nobody's saying that, I can assure him of that. But, uh, and, and w- and the tariffs aren't a good idea either. We should get the tariffs out 'cause there's so much b- we could be doing together a- as p- neighbors and partners if we got rid of those tariffs. Um, you know. L- the, I think, what are the biggest problems in America today? Affordability, security, and we can help with both if we knock the tariffs down. Let's look at affordability. We have the fourth biggest supply of oil anywhere on, on Earth. You guys pay a huge price discount for our oil because we're effectively... All our infrastructure to ship it is north-south, and it's a very unique heavy oil. So we accept, uh, unfortunately, and for now, a price discount on the oil we send you, which can translate into more jobs and paychecks, but also lower energy prices. You've got $5 a gallon right now in lots of places in America. Uh, you're buying... I wanna produce more so we can sell two million more barrels of Canadian oil into the US market. And then there's, there's housing. You've got huge housing, uh, pressures on young people that can't afford a place to live. We're the biggest supplier of f- of lumber for home building, uh, of any country that imports to the United States, exports to the United States. Uh, we've got very low cost but high quality softwood lumber we could be shipping. Or the best truck, the best-selling truck in America for 45 years now is the Ford Series. It's aluminum. It's a l- it's a military grade aluminum body.You guys can't make enough aluminum here. You don't have enough bauxite or electricity to, to convert it into alumina and aluminum. You get your, your aluminum from us. A tariff does not bring the production to America. It raises the price of the aluminum and therefore the F-Series truck. Get rid of that tariff, you lower taxes, you lower the cost of an F-Series truck for the, for the miner in Appalachia or the electrician in Ohio. And, uh, and that's just on the affordability side. There's a lot we can do with our minerals to make the continent a hell of a lot safer as well. So I think it's in America's interest to, to, to come towards a tariff-free deal and, and trade freely as friends, and, uh, that will be good for both of us.

Joe Rogan 25:37 Have you had conversations with Trump about this?

Speaker 25:39 No. I, I, I believe in the rule of, uh, one prime minister at a time. So I fought like hell to win. I didn't win. We came very close. So I've, I've said, "Listen, I'll leave it to the prime minister to do the negotiating," and I've said I'll support him any way I can. Even in my visit down here, I'm sending him text messages to tell him what's going on, to try and support his work, 'cause what we want, we both want what's re- best for Canada.

Joe Rogan 26:03 Where are your elections now? When do you have the next elections?

Speaker 26:07 That's, um, [laughs] this is a, a strangely hard question to answer because we're-

Joe Rogan 26:12 I know, you have a weird system.

Speaker 26:13 Yeah, it, it's-

Joe Rogan 26:14 Weird in comparison to ours, rather

Speaker 26:15 ... y- yours are fixed, um, as you know. Ours, we have technically fixed election dates, but they c- but the government can fall at any time. It's very simple. A rule is that if the opposition parties bind up and they can vote down the government, that is to say, the majority of MPs in the House say, "We've lost confidence in the government," the election is now. Or if the prime minister, uh, decides he wants an election, he can call it, and the election is now. But, uh, he, it has to be sometime in the next roughly three years.

Joe Rogan 26:43 Oh, so you have a deadline where it has to take place?

Speaker 26:45 We have a deadline. Yeah, that's right. So-

Joe Rogan 26:47 But it could happen tomorrow.

Speaker 26:49 The, uh, y- it wouldn't necessarily be tomorrow, but, like, you know, in the next few weeks, if there were a non-confidence vote and the government lost it, then, then they, then they go to an election. So it's kinda like the British system.

Joe Rogan 27:01 Interesting.

Speaker 27:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:02 Um-

Speaker 27:02 Well, it is the British system, really. We, we, we adopted the British system almost identically.

Joe Rogan 27:07 So when you're campaigning, you're essentially, this is like a long game.

Speaker 27:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:12 You're, you're just laying out your strategy, laying out what you would do to make Canada a better place.

Speaker 27:18 Yeah. Well, we have two roles, uh, r- so I, I said I, I'm the leader of the opposition, but I'm also prime minister in waiting. [clears throat] So the notion is that the Canadian people should not only have a government, but they should have an alternative, and that alternative has two functions. Official opposition. It's actually called that. I think it's a proper noun, a, a capital O Official, capital O Opposition, and also government-in-waiting. So you have to be prosecuting the government, but you have to present to yourself, yourself to people in a way where they say, "Yeah, that guy or that team could actually be the government." So those are the dual roles that I have to carry out.

Joe Rogan 27:53 Interesting. And how long have you been attempting to become prime minister for? How long has this been going on for?

Speaker 28:01 Uh, almost exactly four years, because I launched my campaign in, uh, February of 2022.

Joe Rogan 28:08 Was this something that you had always had in the back of your mind, or...?

Speaker 28:11 I, I, I, I'd say in the back of my mind, but it wasn't something I was set on. Like, uh, I, I thought maybe, you know, when I'm in my 50s or 60s I would try it, uh, but I was in no rush to do that.

Joe Rogan 28:23 How old are you now?

Speaker 28:24 I'm now 46.

Joe Rogan 28:26 And so what motivated you to do it?

Speaker 28:30 Well, you know, in, after COVID, uh, as COVID was unfolding, it wasn't just the, the, the COVID policies themselves. It was the economic policies, 'cause I've been very focused on economics in my parliamentary career. And I was seeing the size and cost of government, not just in Canada, but all around the world, growing so much, and that inflation was just destroying the working class people, and that it was gonna get a lot worse. And so I, I ran on the platform of making Canada the freest country on Earth, uh, that we had a, a tradition of freedom in Canada. Our, our, one of our earliest prime ministers, Wilfrid Laurier, was asked, "What's your, what's Canada's nationality?" And he couldn't actually list an ethnicity or a religion because we were already mixed up even 100 years ago. We had Scots and Irish and First Peoples.

Joe Rogan 29:20 French.

Speaker 29:20 So he said, "Look," yeah, French p- French most of all, French and English, and First, First Nations. So he said, um, uh, "Canada's free and freedom is its nationality." And I wanted to reinstate that idea. I wanted it to be the freest country anywhere on Earth. And, uh, so I ran on that platform and won the leadership, and then, uh, ran in the last election and stayed on after that election. So that's kind of the, the last four years of my journey.

Joe Rogan 29:47 And so the way your elections work now, so you, you're essentially just stating your case and going around and talking about what policies you p- would implement and how you would do things differently and just waiting to see how it all plays out.

Speaker 30:02 It's, i- i- we have, um... See, our, our, our p- prime minister is different than, than the president. He's actually part of the legislative branch, so he comes in to the House of Commons and we debate multiple times a week, he and I. So it's not just, you know, in your system, the, the Republican and Democrat hold, like, four debates right before the pre- the, the election. In our system, we're always debating. So he comes in, he's on one side. I come in, I'm on the other side, and I ask him, like, six consecutive questions, and then he answers, and we go back and forth, and that's called question period. Then we have these committees where we prosecute and propose, uh, on finance, natural resources, healthcare, you name it. So we're constantly prosecuting the government, also proposing better ideas at the same time. So, like, the other day I proposed to, to bring back the AutoPAC between Canada and the U.S. to have tariff-free trade going both ways across the, the border. So that's an example of how I'm in a position to actually offer solutions even though I'm not in the government, and then hopefully government actually steals my ideas, and I've been encouraging them to steal my ideas.

Joe Rogan 31:03 So what, uh, uh, w-

Speaker 31:05 Is this coffee, by the way?

Joe Rogan 31:06 Yes.

Speaker 31:06 I need some caffeine.

Joe Rogan 31:07 Would you like some?

Speaker 31:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:07 Yeah.

Speaker 31:07 Some caffeine there. I'm a terrible caffeine addict

Joe Rogan 31:13 Me too. Cheers.

Speaker 31:15 Cheers.

Joe Rogan 31:17 Oh, and shout out to Georges St-Pierre for hooking this up.

Speaker 31:19 Yes, Georges is a good man.

Joe Rogan 31:21 He's the best.

Speaker 31:21 Great guy. Uh, he, uh, he said he's gonna have me do some pad work with him at some point.

Joe Rogan 31:26 Oh, really?

Speaker 31:26 So that's pretty dangerous.

Joe Rogan 31:27 Oh, that's awesome. He's here all the time. He-

Speaker 31:29 He's a fantastic guy.

Joe Rogan 31:30 Yeah, he's the best. He's one of the best representatives of martial arts you, you could ever hope to meet.

Speaker 31:36 He's got humility, and-

Joe Rogan 31:38 Everything

Speaker 31:38 ... I remember he came to Parliament Hill, uh, years ago, and I thought, "Geez, he's gonna be..." 'Cause he's, I thought he'd be cocky and swagger, but he was so down to earth.

Joe Rogan 31:46 Oh, he's so humble.

Speaker 31:46 So much humility. And-

Joe Rogan 31:47 For what he's accomplished in MMA, I've m- I've introduced him to people, and they have no idea who he is.

Speaker 31:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:54 And then I go, "That is one of the greatest fighters that ever walked the face of the earth."

Speaker 31:58 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 31:58 And they're like, "No way. He's so nice." And I-

Speaker 32:01 And that, that's the Canadian way, though. Like, it's soft-spoken-

Joe Rogan 32:04 Yes

Speaker 32:04 ... and gentle and kind, but-

Joe Rogan 32:07 But tough

Speaker 32:08 ... don't, don't piss us off. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 32:09 Yeah, but tough.

Speaker 32:10 Yeah, he's really tough.

Joe Rogan 32:11 That's where Trump fucked up. [laughs]

Speaker 32:12 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 32:13 I wonder what would've happened if he didn't go along with that 51st state nonsense.

Speaker 32:18 Ah, you never know.

Joe Rogan 32:18 You know? I mean, that, that is the narrative in this country, like I said, that if he didn't do that, that you would've won.

Speaker 32:23 Well, you never know. But I, I try not to cry over spilled milk. I focus on what I have to do and live in the present. Um, but, uh, but the, this new guy, um, [lips smack] Malott. Have you, have you followed him, Mike Malott?

Joe Rogan 32:37 Oh, sure. I know Mike.

Speaker 32:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:38 Yeah.

Speaker 32:38 He's gonna be fighting in Winnipeg. I think he's the next GSP.

Joe Rogan 32:41 He's very good.

Speaker 32:42 You like him?

Joe Rogan 32:42 Yeah, he's excellent. Yeah.

Speaker 32:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:43 He's great.

Speaker 32:43 He did a great job in Montreal-

Joe Rogan 32:45 Mm-hmm

Speaker 32:45 ... if you saw him there. But, uh, maybe-

Joe Rogan 32:47 Oh, yeah, I've, I've been to many of his, or called a bunch of his fights.

Speaker 32:50 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 32:51 He's excellent. Yeah, he's excellent.

Speaker 32:52 Yeah, he's, uh, my buddy is his trainer, uh, Crew, Crew Allen, Hamelgin-

Joe Rogan 32:56 Mm-hmm

Speaker 32:57 ... uh, in, um, in Hamilton. He's a Fr- a Hamilton Steel, uh, Steel Town guy, and, uh, and we're, we're hoping that he has a big win in Winnipeg, so.

Joe Rogan 33:06 Well, you guys have one of the best gyms in the world, Tristar in Montreal.

Speaker 33:09 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 33:10 Firas Zahabi, who's-

Speaker 33:11 Okay

Joe Rogan 33:11 ... the... If there, uh, uh, there's, like, maybe a handful of great masterminds in, in MMA as far as coaches-

Speaker 33:19 Right

Joe Rogan 33:19 ... and Firas is at the top of the list for me.

Speaker 33:20 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 33:21 Yeah.

Speaker 33:21 And what, what's his discipline?

Joe Rogan 33:22 He trained GSP.

Speaker 33:23 Is his discipline karate or-

Joe Rogan 33:24 Uh, well-

Speaker 33:25 ... kickboxing, Muay Thai?

Joe Rogan 33:25 I mean, he's, I mean, he's a, a true mixed martial artist, black belt in jujitsu, kickboxing, every- I mean, he can do everything.

Speaker 33:34 Okay.

Joe Rogan 33:34 And he has a... Tristar is a place where a lot of people from America go up there for their camps.

Speaker 33:39 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 33:39 Yeah.

Speaker 33:40 I'll have to drop in and see those guys.

Joe Rogan 33:41 Oh, it's phenomenal.

Speaker 33:42 W-

Joe Rogan 33:43 I mean, like I said, GSP trained up there. A lot, a lot of fighters trained up there. And he also had a great working relationship with a lot of people in America, so he would come down, and, you know, they would exchange fighters back and forth and train with each other.

Speaker 33:56 Yeah, he- Well, we have a great martial arts tradition in Canada. Um, I don't know if you know Mike Myles. He brought, uh, Muay Thai from, from Thailand to, uh, Calgary, like, back in seven- in the '70s or '80s, and he's still got a great gym there. And, uh, so-

Joe Rogan 34:10 Do you know who Jean Yves Theriault is?

Speaker 34:11 Yes, he's a buddy of mine.

Joe Rogan 34:12 Oh, really?

Speaker 34:13 From Ottawa, yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:13 Oh, no kidding.

Speaker 34:14 Yeah, he, uh, I-

Joe Rogan 34:15 He was a hero of mine when I was a kid.

Speaker 34:17 Yeah, he's incredible. I-

Joe Rogan 34:18 When I was kickboxing, he was, like, my idol.

Speaker 34:21 Really?

Joe Rogan 34:21 Yeah.

Speaker 34:22 Does he know that?

Joe Rogan 34:23 I never talked to him.

Speaker 34:24 Well, he's gonna see this.

Joe Rogan 34:25 I bought his book.

Speaker 34:26 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 34:26 I bought his book, and I started running stairs because of his book.

Speaker 34:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:29 'Cause he was talking about how it increased his leg muscles and his kicking power.

Speaker 34:33 I remember that. It was in one of his documentaries or something. He said his kicks weren't strong enough, so he would do stairs. But I went and trained at his dojo a few times. It's in South Ottawa.

Joe Rogan 34:42 Oh, he was incredible.

Speaker 34:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:43 He was, uh, he was one of the truly elite kickboxers of his time.

Speaker 34:48 He, he, he was a great boxer too.

Joe Rogan 34:50 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 34:50 Like, I know he, he, he never competed as a boxer, but his, his hands were-

Joe Rogan 34:53 Right

Speaker 34:53 ... fantastic and, uh-

Joe Rogan 34:54 Well, that's really what separated him from a lot of other people, was, like, his accuracy and his technique was pristine.

Speaker 35:00 He told me that he would spend hours studying the, the distances that your limbs would have to travel depending on how you moved. He was kind of, uh, like a scientist in the way he learned and studied, and he was all about simplicity and removing anything unnecessary. Uh, I think Bruce Lee said that. He said, "Simplicity. Hack away at the unnecessary." And, uh, you know, how do you, what's the shortest distance to-

Joe Rogan 35:26 Mm-hmm

Speaker 35:26 ... to hit the strike? And, um, he's got a great... He has a really good heart too. You know, he had, um, he has a jujitsu club as well, and when I went in there, there was a blind fellow who was into jujitsu, which you can do as a blind person 'cause it's so much about feel.

Joe Rogan 35:42 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 35:42 But with COVID, he couldn't do jujitsu anymore 'cause they, they, they disallowed that kind of cl- uh, close contact. So he actually found a way to train this guy with focus mitts even though he was blind. It was really incredible.

Joe Rogan 35:54 Oh, wow.

Speaker 35:54 Yeah. It was just, but it, it was incredible amount of patience he had invested in making sure this, this young man could keep doing his physical activity throughout COVID.

Joe Rogan 36:02 Wait a minute, so they allowed pad work, but they didn't allow jujitsu?

Speaker 36:05 I don't know if it was a government policy-

Joe Rogan 36:07 Oh, I see

Speaker 36:07 ... or if it was just a, it was a policy at the gym because you're, you know, you're just so wrapped up and-

Joe Rogan 36:11 Yeah

Speaker 36:12 ... sweating and all each this and the-

Joe Rogan 36:13 The gyms in America, everybody just-

Speaker 36:15 Just kept going

Joe Rogan 36:16 ... kept going.

Speaker 36:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:16 They hid. They would, like, put foil over the windows and, like, hide or come in through the back door. A lot of the gyms in LA, that's what they did.

Speaker 36:24 They just plowed ahead.

Joe Rogan 36:25 They just figured out a way to not get in trouble. And-

Speaker 36:29 Right

Joe Rogan 36:29 ... and some people did get caught and get in trouble, and nothing ever came of it because it's pretty unconstitutional to tell people that they can't work out together. Like, the government really didn't have the right to tell people that they couldn't do what they wanted to do that was a legal thing that you can do. Like, all of a sudden, there's this mandate, there's this law or rule being passed down, or at least it's being promoted, that you're not allowed to go to a gym and work out with other people. Like, but those are the healthiest people. Those are the people that are the least likely to get sick. Like, this, this is crazy to say. And you know if you're sick, and if you just have a good gym with good people, say, "Hey, don't show up if you're sick," everybody should be okay.

Speaker 37:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:14 These are the, the people you should worry about the least.

Speaker 37:17 We need to have common sense again, and, uh, too many governments in the Western world have gotten way too bossy.

Joe Rogan 37:22 Yes.

Speaker 37:22 They're just looking for every excuse to boss people around, and, uh, that's what we have to push back again. And it's, you know, EV mandates or, um, you know, excessive, uh, control of the internet or, um, the massive increase in the cost of government, which is really like appropriating the private eco- voluntary economy into the coercive government economy. Uh, that's, uh, that's what we're seeing across Europe, in the UK, parts of the United States, as well as, uh, back home. So we need to, we need to reverse that trend and get people back in charge of their lives.

Joe Rogan 37:56 Well, the narrative has always been that r- r- rights lost are never regained or are very, very difficult to regain them. So how could you reverse that?

Speaker 38:07 Well, you have to keep fighting. I mean, we did regain, uh, our rights, uh, after COVID and, you know, the, the people have to... Look, look at the history of it. How did... Uh, f-

Joe Rogan 38:18 Which rights did you regain?

Speaker 38:20 Well, the, all the mandates are gone now.

Joe Rogan 38:21 Of course.

Speaker 38:22 Um-

Joe Rogan 38:22 But those were ridiculous anyway.

Speaker 38:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:24 Right?

Speaker 38:24 They were ridiculous, but, uh, a lot of sovereign-

Joe Rogan 38:26 And they also impeded business. They, they ruined people's lives, social lives.

Speaker 38:31 But freedom has always had to be taken. Like you go... Our tradition goes back to, to 1215 with the Magna Carta, the Great Charter, and most of the freedoms we have today were in that original document. Right to a jury trial, uh, no arrest without charge, no conf- conf- confiscation without compensation, no taxation without representation. All comes from that one document, the Magna Carta. And, uh, it was because King John was taken aside by the barons and they said, "Listen, pal, this is the choice. Either you sign this and follow it, or we overthrow you." And as a result, we got the Magna Carta, and all of... When you guys had your Boston Tea Party and said, "You can't tax our tea 'cause we don't elect you," that was, uh, an appeal as Engli- you were Englishmen saying, "I'm not... We're Englishmen. We have the right not to be taxed unless we vote for it, and we're gonna throw you out otherwise." But that came out of the fields of Runnymede in England in 1215. So it's a long march towards freedom, and it's never actually done. Like, there's no permanent victories or defeats. You just have to keep going forward.

Joe Rogan 39:34 So if you were elected-

Speaker 39:36 Yeah

Joe Rogan 39:36 ... let's say you get in right now, what, what's one of the first things you would do?

Speaker 39:41 I would unblock our resources. So we have the most resources of any country in the world per capita, bar none. We need to have... To make it happen, though, we need to have the fastest permits anywhere in the world and the lowest taxes on producing those resources. We're the fourth in oil, the number, number one in uranium, number one in potash for fertilizer. We have the fifth biggest supplier of natural gas. We have, um, the longest oceanic coastline. Like we are, we have 12 of NATO's, um... Sorry, we have 10 of 12 of NATO's defined defense minerals. So you know you had that guy, uh, Palmer Luckey on?

Joe Rogan 40:21 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 40:21 I don't think he can make his stuff without Canadian minerals. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he'll correct me, but like night vision technology, you need to have, uh, you need to have germanium for that. You need to have ga- uh, gallium to make, uh, semiconductors and radar. You need to have aluminum for armored vehicles and, uh, airplanes. You need cobalt for heat-resistant alloys in fighter jets. You need tungsten for, uh, body... Sorry, um, uh, armor-piercing ammo- ammunition. We have it all, and what I wanna do is unblock those resources, produce them in abundance for ourselves and our allies, make, you know, $200,000 paychecks for our trades workers, build up an enormous strategic stockpile of it so that we have tons of leverage in international relations. And if, God forbid, there is ever a global conflict, we would have all the resources necessary to win it. So, uh, but we need to, we need to pass, we need to get rid of a lot of laws that are blocking and, and replace them with laws that have fast permitting so that we can produce this stuff, uh, on scale very quickly.

Joe Rogan 41:25 So is the concern the environmental impact of extracting these things? Is that-

Speaker 41:31 That's, that-

Joe Rogan 41:31 ... what's holding it up?

Speaker 41:32 That is the, that's the ostensible reason, but I just think across Western, the Western world, like Europe, UK, parts of the US, and Canada, there's a problem with bureaucracy just growing way too damn big. Like, you know, the First Nations in our country are incredibly forward-looking. The Squamish built 6,000 units of housing on 10 acres of land. You can believe it. In a town, in a c- city of Vancouver where it's very hard to get a permit to do anything, because it was their land, so they did it. They're trying to build, they're building now a, an LNG liquefaction plant where they replaced, uh, an old dirty mill. So they cleaned it up and put an LNG plant there. But the federal government took a lot of time, 14 years, to give them a permit. So we need to think like they're thinking, which is entrepreneurial, speed of business, get it done quickly. Um, that's how you develop. Like we have this community in my r- my district, it's called Hardisty, 600 people. They manage $100 billion of oil in a town of 600 people. Why is it there? Because their municipality offers a permit in one week with one page. And I wanted to tell this story, so I called them and I said, "Can I have someone come and do a video with me?" And they said, "We don't have anyone here. We don't have like bureaucrats that can help you."

Joe Rogan 42:53 [laughs]

Speaker 42:53 "They're, they're all out on their farms right now. They come in, they stamp the permit, and they go back to their farm." Well, that's why we have $100 billion of energy moving through the area, which is bigger than the GDP of many countries, because they have fast permits, and that's what we need in Canada. We need to be the fastest place to get things done.

Joe Rogan 43:08 But don't you think you need some safeguards-

Speaker 43:10 Of course

Joe Rogan 43:11 ... to protect the environment? And, uh, how do you balance that out?

Speaker 43:14 Protect it quickly. We can figure out what, what, whether a project is damaging to the environment in weeks and months rather than decades. Like there's nothing you're gonna learn in year 14 of the review that you couldn't have learned in-in month 14. So there's ways to protect the environment. When the Germans... So when the Germans had to break their dependence on Russia after it invaded Ukraine, they approved an, an LNG import terminal in 60 days. They completed the whole damn thing in less than 200 days. And guess what? No environmental problems. They, they got their engineers to sit down and figure out how to do it quickly, and that's the, that's the mentality that we need to get in Canada.

Joe Rogan 43:54 So what would you be able to do to bypass all this bureaucracy? How could that be done legally?

Speaker 44:02 Well, you slim it down to one project, one environmental review instead of 20 or 30. You have, uh, a fixed timeline that the bureaucrats have to give an answer of six months rather than just as long as they wanna drag it on for. Um, and the other thing I would do is study areas where they're, they're perfectly situated to have a project like a pipeline or a mine or an LNG export terminal or a port expansion, and I would pre-permit it. I would say to our officials, "Go in, study, make sure that the environmental aspects are all in good order. I'll issue a pre-permit, and then anybody who comes along and wants to build it, as long as they follow the terms and act responsibly, has a guaranteed permit before they even apply for it." Uh, and, uh, that... I think we would have a roaring economy if we did that.

Joe Rogan 44:44 That sounds awesome.

Speaker 44:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:45 But the, the great fear is that if you do have an impact on the environment, that impact is often permanent, and then, uh-

Speaker 44:52 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 44:53 ... it's devastating. And I, I've seen some of the oil extraction that they've done up in Alberta, where you look at the area, it looks like l- like scorched earth.

Speaker 45:02 No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no.

Joe Rogan 45:04 No, no?

Speaker 45:04 It's the most responsible o- oil extraction in the world.

Joe Rogan 45:07 But when you, when you see these... What is that one area that often gets criticized?

Speaker 45:12 Fort Mac.

Joe Rogan 45:13 Is that what it is?

Speaker 45:14 Yeah. It's... They're open pit mines. You, you open up a mine-

Joe Rogan 45:17 Right. That's, uh-

Speaker 45:17 You take out the, you take out the bitumen. Um, you subtract... You, you separate the sand from the oil. You, you make it less viscous by putting diluent in it, and, and you ship it off. And then after the oil is, after the mining is done, they, they resurface it, and you wouldn't even know there was a mine there. And-

Joe Rogan 45:34 And there's no impact to groundwater, no impact to the environment?

Speaker 45:38 I mean, uh, there's an invi- impact no matter what you do, but at the end of the day, the people who live there are very healthy and very happy, and they're the strongest supporters of the expansion of the oil sands. It's an incredible-

Joe Rogan 45:47 Because economically, it's amazing for them.

Speaker 45:48 Oh, it's incredible. It's the best resource in the world.

Joe Rogan 45:51 Yeah.

Speaker 45:51 So it's like, uh, there's no decline rate. You guys have shale here, but, you know, as the years go by, you get less and less out of a shale, uh, reservoir. We ha- we have very little de- decline. We can keep producing and producing. Uh, we have, um, what's called in situ, where there's an entire oil sands operation under your feet. You could be out in a forest hunting, and you wouldn't even know that under your feet they're extracting it through a whole system of pipes where they inject just steam, steam vapor. That loosens up the oil. It sinks down. It goes into another pipe, comes up to the top. And you can have beautiful, pristine nature, the bears, the, the, uh, the deer, the birds. They don't even know that there's extraction happening under their feet. So we have the best industry, the most responsible industry anywhere in the world. It's been a, a really disgusting PR campaign by extremist environmentalists and, frankly, some of our competitors to try and make our industry look bad, but it's the best industry in the world.

Joe Rogan 46:45 Yeah, they got me.

Speaker 46:46 Yeah. We-

Joe Rogan 46:46 I saw some videos on it, and I was like, "Oh my God."

Speaker 46:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:48 "What are they doing to the ground?"

Speaker 46:50 Wow.

Joe Rogan 46:50 "What are they doing to the earth? It looks horrible."

Speaker 46:51 They're all... It, it's all bullshit. Uh, we have the cleanit-

Joe Rogan 46:54 It looks horrible. Like-

Speaker 46:56 Yeah, but I mean, it, it... That's just a superficial look at it. You... I'll take you for a tour in the oil sands, and you'll be amazed. We have the best engineers in the world. And by the way, the First Nations people absolutely love it because it's lifting their people out of poverty. They're getting enormous job opportunities out of it. One of our MPs is a former chief, uh, the- where they took, uh, 18% unemployment, brought it down to 3, balanced their budget. Another one of my Members of Parliament in northern British Columbia negotiated a $40 billion LNG plant on his, uh, on the Haisla territory. It's completely eliminating poverty for the First Nations there. And by exporting clean Canadian natural gas, which we can liquefy 25% cheaper 'cause it's cold as hell in Canada, [chuckles] um, they, uh, actually displace dirty coal overseas. So instead of Asia burning coal, they're burning clean Canadian gas, uh, that's delivered by First Nations partnerships. So this is the best way to do it. Makes everybody richer and makes our entire continent better off.

Joe Rogan 47:53 Well, it seems so simple the way you're laying it out. I don't understand why this hasn't been implemented.

Speaker 47:59 Yeah. This is, this is the, the story of my life. Uh, it's frustrating.

Joe Rogan 48:03 Is it that... But it's... If it... Is it that simple? Is it really that this is what's holding everything up, the bureaucracy and the, the time it takes for permits and-

Speaker 48:12 Yeah, like a lot of things. So we have-

Joe Rogan 48:14 Regulations

Speaker 48:14 ... yeah. We have the same thing in housing, and, and so do you. Like, if you look at, you look at-

Joe Rogan 48:18 California certainly does

Speaker 48:19 ... California, it's terrible.

Joe Rogan 48:19 Yeah.

Speaker 48:19 Like, why is there such a housing shortage in California? It's because it takes forever to get a permit, and there's always bureaucracy standing in the way, and it totally screws over the working class youth who can't find a place to live because they're not being built. And, uh, we have that challenge in Canada as well. And so that's why I proposed ideas to cut the bureaucracy and the taxes so that we can build affordable homes for our youth, 'cause right now we have a whole generation that can't afford homes. And that was one of the biggest issues I ran on. Homeownership is k- necessary for family formation, for civil peace in society, where, you know, everybody feels like they have a piece of the pie. Um, we need to expand homeownership, but to do that, you've got to get the government gatekeepers out of the way, speed up the permits, free up the land, cut the development taxes.

Joe Rogan 49:05 So let's assume that you got in office. How l- much time would it take to start implementing these things, and how quickly would that impact be felt by the Canadian people?

Speaker 49:17 Look, I think a lot of them could move very quickly. There's a lot of projects that are pe- that, that investors are sitting on, but they don't have, uh, certainty and permits. So I would unblock that, and I think in the first year you would start to see immediate benefits, uh, for the working people who'd be getting these jobs. Uh-Um, some of it would take more and more like a medium term. Like, the second thing I would go after is just the inflationary spending, which is a big problem all over the Western world. Like, uh, people just can't afford to live. I don't know if you've... Do you, do you, do you encounter that around here?

Joe Rogan 49:53 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 49:54 It's, it's crazy.

Joe Rogan 49:54 I mean, inflation's crazy.

Speaker 49:56 So-

Joe Rogan 49:56 And it's, I mean, the national debt in America just went up to 39 trillion.

Speaker 50:00 Right, which is bigger than your GDP.

Joe Rogan 50:02 It's a lot of money.

Speaker 50:04 So, so explain this to me. 50 years ago, a barber and a, a barber and a waitress could buy a house with a big yard for a dog and raise four kids, meat and potatoes on the dinner table every night. And now an accountant and a lawyer can't do that. Why is that? It's crazy.

Joe Rogan 50:22 Well, there's a lot of spending-

Speaker 50:23 Yeah

Joe Rogan 50:23 ... and a lot of making money. A lot of just-

Speaker 50:26 Creating cash

Joe Rogan 50:26 ... turning, you know, z- just making dollar bills with nothing behind it, nothing to back it.

Speaker 50:34 This is the biggest fraud perpetrated on the working class people in the last 100 years.

Joe Rogan 50:40 Printing money is just insane.

Speaker 50:42 Printing money.

Joe Rogan 50:42 It's just, the, the idea you just print more money is like... And people go, "Oh, okay." Like-

Speaker 50:46 Well, it looks, it looks painless at first.

Joe Rogan 50:48 Right.

Speaker 50:49 But if you have an economy with 10 apples and $10, it's a buck an apple. You double the number of dollars to 20, but you still only have 10 apples. Well, all of a sudden it's two bucks an apple. And it's not that the cost of apples has gone up. It still costs the same resources to grow the, and pick the apples. It's that the, the price has gone up because the value of the money has gone down.

Joe Rogan 51:09 Right.

Speaker 51:10 So in America, over the last 55 years, you've doubled the number of homes in America from about 70 million to 150 million. You know how much the money supply has grown? 30 times. So you have twice the homes, but 30 times the cash. So what's happened? Housing costs have gone up 15-fold in 55 years, and now an entire generation of kids can't afford homes. We have exactly the same problem in Canada. Uh, this is the biggest wealth transfer from the working class to the, the elites, from, uh, I say the have-nots to the have yachts. And Washington and Wall, Wall Street love it, by the way, 'cause it inflates the stock market, inflates the bureaucracy. Politicians get to spend. CEOs get, uh, their stocks, uh, inflated. Um, but it destroys the working people, and we need to get back to, to hard money. Everything should be getting cheaper, by the way. You know, it takes 80, 60 to 80% less resources to grow food. We grow four times the food on the same acre, get four times as much milk from the same cow. We use 80% less water and fertilizer. So why isn't it that food is not less expensive? It's because all of those gains are being erased by monetary inflation. So it's not that food is more costly, it's that the value, the money we use to buy it has less, uh, purchasing power. And, uh, we need to do what the Swiss do, which is they don't print money. They have balanced budgets. They have almost no deficit. And they have almost zero inflation in Switzerland. They have the strongest money in the world, the Swiss franc. And, uh, we would all be better if we o- operated like the Swiss when it comes to our money.

Joe Rogan 52:48 So in a, a real world scenario, so like, you, you take over Canada.

Speaker 52:52 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:52 How would you go about implementing this?

Speaker 52:54 You gotta cut bureaucracy, consultants, which consume, by the way, $26 billion of spending.

Joe Rogan 53:01 How big is your debt in Canada?

Speaker 53:02 Uh, 1.3-ish trillion. So it's-

Joe Rogan 53:05 Oh, that's baby debt.

Speaker 53:06 It's com- compared to you.

Joe Rogan 53:07 [laughs]

Speaker 53:07 Uh, yeah, you guys are, you guys are really-

Joe Rogan 53:09 We're ridiculous

Speaker 53:10 ... wild. But, you know, you've gotten away with it because the dollar, the American dollar is the reserve currency.

Joe Rogan 53:15 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 53:15 So all these countries prop up the value of the US dollar by keeping it on reserve. Um, better hope that doesn't change.

Joe Rogan 53:22 Yeah. Better hope.

Speaker 53:23 And we, we, we don't have that luxury. And so, uh, but we do have a lot of debt, and we have a lot... We have provinces, too. They're quite indebted. But, um, I would cut the bureaucracy. I would cut, uh, consultants. Foreign aid, I'd cut way back on foreign aid. Uh, the, we give, uh, corporate welfare, these checks to corporations. I believe business should make money rather than take money, so I would get rid of that. We're giving a lot of money to fake, fake refugees, um, people who come in and don't, uh, actually, or they're not actually fleeing danger. Um, like, I love real refugees. My wife was a refugee, but I have no time for people who are pretending, but they're not really. So I would cut that.

Joe Rogan 54:03 And what do you mean by pretending to be a refugee? How are they doing this?

Speaker 54:06 Well, they're not actually endangered in their home country, so they've come to be, uh, declared themselves as students, and then, uh, wanting to stay, declaring a refugee status.

Joe Rogan 54:15 Oh. And this is common?

Speaker 54:17 Yeah, it happens.

Joe Rogan 54:18 It's just a loophole?

Speaker 54:18 It happens, and I mean, they just wanna have a better life, so I don't, I don't begrudge them as people. But we can't, we can't spend money on social servi- enhanced social services, advanced programs that we as Canadians don't get-

Joe Rogan 54:31 Right

Speaker 54:31 ... for people who are not paying into the system.

Joe Rogan 54:32 So you're not opposed to them being there, you're opposed to them getting Canadian welfare.

Speaker 54:36 Well, I'm opposed to them... If, if they're not real refugees, they shouldn't be brought in as refugees. I think we have to distinguish between those people who are actually in danger in their home country, which is the definition of an, a refugee, and someone who just wants to come, uh, in, uh, in excess of, uh, of their, their proper immigration stream.

Joe Rogan 54:54 Is this that common that it's actually affecting your economy?

Speaker 54:59 Right now it's a challenge because, um, we had a big number of international students and temporary foreign workers that came in, in very large numbers in, like, two or three years. Um, we were bringing in about a million people a year, which in C- in America's terms would be 10 million, like, just if you're doing per capita. And it really caused a housing shortage. Um, like some places where you have 26 of these students living in one basement. Um, so we're trying to unwind that now.

Joe Rogan 55:26 And how, how do you do that?

Speaker 55:28 Well, when their work permit and their visitor visa runs out, then we have to encourage them to, to head back, um, lawfully.

Joe Rogan 55:36 Right. But you don't wanna do it ice style.

Speaker 55:39 No. No, I don't think we need to do that. I just think we have to be orderly and lawful about it.

Joe Rogan 55:45 And is that supported by the Canadian people?

Speaker 55:47 Yes, because we're a very welcoming country. We're a nation of immigrants, but we're also a nation of laws. And, uh, we... The... There's a general consensus, like, across the, the spectrum in Canada that there, there, there was t- There, the, the population growth was too fast for, like, four or five years. And, uh, so we're, we're trying to unwind that now.

Joe Rogan 56:08 Um, what are, what are the other things that you would have to do to d- drop your debt and sort of balance your budget and begin to turn things around?

Speaker 56:19 Well, in addition, so I, I, I like this idea that, actually, believe it or not, that Clint- that Bill Clinton and the Republicans did in the '90s in the US. It was called the PAYGO law. It was a very simple principle. Every time the administration wanted to bring in a new dollar of spending, they had to match it with a dollar of savings. So there was no extra net spending for, like, eight years, and that's when your government balanced its budget and paid off $400 billion of debt. That law lapsed in 2002, and immediately after that, America went back into deficits, and you haven't emerged. You've been in deficit now for 25 years. This is about internalizing scarcity. Every creature in the universe, every bird in the trees, every fish in the seas has to live with scarcity, maximizing use of scarce resources. The only creature who doesn't do that is the politician because he's always using someone else's money.

Joe Rogan 57:13 Right.

Speaker 57:13 Right? It's like, "Oh, well, I'll just print it or borrow it or tax it. It's not my money." And so they routinely show up to their cabinet meetings and say, "Well, I've got a new idea. It's $100 million." "Where are you gonna get it?" "I don't know. We'll print it. We'll borrow it. We'll, we'll tax it. Not my money." But if you had a law saying you can't actually bring a proposal to cabinet unless you have matching savings to pay for it, well, then you'd have these politicians walking up and down the hallways in their departments looking for waste and, like, rooting it out. So instead of making the single mom, the senior, or the small business owner live with scarcity, I want the politicians and bureaucrats to live with scarcity. A- and that's what I would impose by law on my government.

Joe Rogan 57:51 Well, it's just a rational way to deal with the problem. Like, don't spend money unless you can save money.

Speaker 57:58 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 57:59 That's how you balance things out. I mean, Clinton did balance the budget-

Speaker 58:03 He did

Joe Rogan 58:03 ... during his time, and people forget that 'cause we've always assumed that there's always been this extraordinary debt, but that's not the case. During the 1990s, I mean, it, he did a fantastic job at that.

Speaker 58:14 Yeah, they... And it was that Congress was, was very disciplined as well, and the American people just got fed up and said, "We're not tolerating these deficits anymore." And, and they imposed scarcity from the center. And by the way, the economy boomed 'cause the government was restrained, and the free market economy could just roar. And that's, uh, another part of the equation, by the way, is unlock the power of free enterprise. Like, this is the 250th anniversary, not just of the Declaration of Independence, but also of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations, where he basically, for the first time in human history, described the free market system. And, um, that was starting to flourish in the States and in parts of Europe. And that system w- it basically started to come into place after, you know, s- the late 1770s. The growth since the free market system has came in- come into place in, in the world has been 200 times faster than it was before because there's, it is the most powerful system for generating material benefit for the people, and that's what we need to restore in Canada. I wanna make it the freest economy in the world.

Joe Rogan 59:20 Well, that all sounds amazing. How the hell did you lose? [laughs]

Speaker 59:28 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 59:28 I don't s- How can a rational person-

Speaker 59:30 Uh

Joe Rogan 59:30 ... not vote for that? I mean, you're not saying anything that's restrictive. You're not saying anything that is in any way infringing on people's rights or liberties or... It just sounds like it's all just 100% positive for Canada.

Speaker 59:43 That's what I think. That's wh- that's my mission, and, uh, I think it will be po- but I will get there. You know, um, Canadians do things through evolution, not revolution, so I'm just gonna keep pushing my ideas, and I think that, I think overwhelmingly we'll, we'll win the next election.

Joe Rogan 59:57 Well, it sounds like, uh, I, I just can't see how someone would listen to what you're saying and say, "I find fault in this." Other than, like, the, the potential environmental impact of extracting resources, I could see how a lot of the greenies would get, like, really upset and get their panties in a bunch about that and, and be very incredulous to the idea that you're gonna protect the environment while you're extracting all these resources. But if you could lay it all out and also lay out this enormous economic impact and how it would uplift impoverished communities-

Speaker 1:00:30 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 ... how it would completely change the economic landscape of the country, it just only makes sense. That's why I'm baffled.

Speaker 1:00:40 Well, listen, the people render their judgment, but I, it means I have to do a better job of, uh, of proselytizing.

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 What, what were the criticisms of you? Like, what did your opponent say that, like, people, that resonated with people?

Speaker 1:00:52 Um-

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 What were they trying to say that maybe is not accurate?

Speaker 1:00:53 It was funny because they, they all disagreed with my ideas, and they said these are all very scary ideas.

Joe Rogan 1:00:58 Scary?

Speaker 1:00:59 A- and then they said-

Joe Rogan 1:01:00 They hate growth?

Speaker 1:01:00 First of all, they said, they said that I had no policies. Then they said, uh, they're scary policies, and then they stole my policies right before the election.

Joe Rogan 1:01:07 [laughs]

Speaker 1:01:07 So, uh, but hey, listen, if the government that's in power now steals all my ideas and does the things I wanna do, then I, then I've won.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 Great.

Speaker 1:01:15 'Cause that's why I came here. I didn't just do it so that I could have the, my name on the door. So I keep saying to the prime minister, "Steal my ideas."

Joe Rogan 1:01:22 Right. But he doesn't wanna.

Speaker 1:01:25 Well, he, he, heI, I won't criticize him on foreign soil. I will, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:01:29 I understand

Speaker 1:01:30 ... but, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 Good for you.

Speaker 1:01:31 Yeah. I mean, uh, we have a mutual respect.

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 That's such a Canadian thing to do.

Speaker 1:01:34 That is a very Canadian thing [laughs] to do.

Joe Rogan 1:01:36 So polite.

Speaker 1:01:37 You know. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:01:38 That's what I'm saying about Canadians. They're so polite.

Speaker 1:01:40 I- i- it's funny, your security guy was talking about the Canadian standoff of, uh, you know, when you get to a door, "You go first." "No, you go first."

Joe Rogan 1:01:46 Right.

Speaker 1:01:47 "No, you go first." You could stay there all day. I actually looked this up the other day. Ontario actually has an apology act. It's a law that defines the apology, because we always say sorry in Canada, so they wanted to clarify that sorry is not a legal admission of guilt. So, like, if we get into a car accident, I say, "Oh, sorry, man. I- it's terrible, your bumper," it doesn't mean that I'm guilty. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:02:07 Oh, that's funny.

Speaker 1:02:07 So it's actually in law.

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 'Cause they're so polite.

Speaker 1:02:09 There's so many apologies. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 Even if somebody else screwed up, you say sorry.

Speaker 1:02:13 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 That's funny.

Speaker 1:02:13 It's one of the-

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 That's so Canadian. Yeah.

Speaker 1:02:15 But, you know, the, the, the great thing about Canada is we've always sorted our shit out peacefully. Like, the, the, the Protestants and Catholics tore each other's eyeballs out in Europe for, like, hundreds of years, and then we came to Canada and just got along, and, and that's the great thing about Canada is, like, you can come, you know, Muslims and Jews, Christians, uh, and, uh, uh... Sorry, um, Protestants and Catholics, uh, Hindus and Sikhs, they come to Canada and they just get along. They live on the same streets. Eventually, we all inter- start intermarrying, and, uh, it's a, it's a great thing about Canada.

Joe Rogan 1:02:46 Well, it really is a great melting pot, you know?

Speaker 1:02:49 Yeah. And, and, like, folks get to keep their, their cultures, like, uh, at the same time as, uh, blending into the Canadian identity. Like, my w- my wife's from Venezuela, and, uh, so, like, you know, oftentimes I... Like, I'm, I'm in the house and there's, like, 16 Latinos and they're all speaking Spanish. I have no idea what the hell's going on.

Joe Rogan 1:03:08 [laughs]

Speaker 1:03:08 And, uh, they have this food, it's called a jacas. And I said, you know, when they start, start cooking this stuff, I, uh, I, I said to my wife, "Did, did your mom just call me a, a jackass?" Um, 'cause that's what it sounded like. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:03:20 [laughs]

Speaker 1:03:20 I don't speak any Spanish, but, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:03:22 You should probably learn.

Speaker 1:03:23 I should now.

Joe Rogan 1:03:23 They're yapping in your house.

Speaker 1:03:24 It's a-

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 You should know what they're planning

Speaker 1:03:25 ... it's, it's a great, uh... My kids are starting to learn Spanish, so I'm gonna be outnumbered.

Joe Rogan 1:03:29 Yeah, you better learn it.

Speaker 1:03:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 Yeah.

Speaker 1:03:31 But...

Joe Rogan 1:03:32 Um, so what else is, uh, an, an issue in Canada that you would like to fix? James-

Speaker 1:03:40 Um, we-

Joe Rogan 1:03:40 ... can you toss me those napkins?

Speaker 1:03:42 We have to, we-

Joe Rogan 1:03:42 The tissues. I got a, I got a allergy I'm dealing with. Thank you.

Speaker 1:03:45 We, we gotta toughen up our justice system. Um, it, it got way too soft, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:03:51 What's wrong with your justice system?

Speaker 1:03:52 Basically bail. Um, I, I mean, we all believe in the basic principle that it- you're innocent till approved, proven guilty, but if someone's convicted, has, have, like, 150 prior convictions and they're newly arrested on their latest crime-

Joe Rogan 1:04:05 Yeah

Speaker 1:04:06 ... uh, I don't think we should be release- releasing them onto the streets. And, uh, so we got too lax on bail. So there's now a consensus in Canada that you should have severe restrictions on repeat offenders. Like in Vancouver, they had to arrest the same 40 guys 6,000 times in one year. 40 guys, 6,000 arrests. So they're basically being released within hours of their latest arrest. So we're, we're, we now bri- built a bipartisan, a multipartisan consensus to fix that, and, uh, we're pushing to toughen the bail system, um, and ensure that r- it's the repeat offenders, a tiny group. We don't have a lot of criminals in Canada, but they do a tremendous amount of crime. So you take them off the street, you put them in prison, you can basically reduce the crime rate dramatically.

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 Well, we probably have more crime percentage-wise in America, but it's still a small percentage of the population that commits the crime.

Speaker 1:05:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:01 But it's the same issue. Like in New York City, it's extraordinary the amount of people that are repeat offenders.

Speaker 1:05:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:06 And they just let them go. In California, no cash bail, let them go. It's like, it is bananas, and it doesn't make any sense, and it doesn't make anybody help. I understand you wanna be empathetic, and I understand these narratives that the prison system is racist and the justice system is racist, and these people never been given a, a great shake in life.

Speaker 1:05:27 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:27 Well, if you wanna fix that, start in these impoverished neighborhoods, establish community centers, establish better education. Fund that, but don't let hardened criminals back on the street-

Speaker 1:05:39 Exactly

Joe Rogan 1:05:39 ... when they, they're habitual. They've been... If you've been arrested 40, 50 times, it doesn't seem like you're getting any better, so whatever rehabilitation process they have going on there, that's not working.

Speaker 1:05:51 Let's-

Joe Rogan 1:05:51 So keep doing the same thing over and over again. Unless you like crime, I don't understand why you would do that.

Speaker 1:05:58 It, this has been... You know, it's imposed by these so-called experts. They tell, "Oh, we've done all these studies that show that these soft-on-crime policies work." But everywhere it been, it's been tried, it's been an absolute disaster, anywhere in the Western world. We have a town called Penticton. There's one guy who the police can tell by looking at the cri- the crime rate whether he's been in jail or not. [laughs] When he comes out of jail, the crime rate for the entire town-

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 Oh, my God

Speaker 1:06:23 ... of Penticton actually goes up. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:06:24 That's so crazy.

Speaker 1:06:26 But you just keep him in prison though.

Joe Rogan 1:06:27 That seems so simple to solve.

Speaker 1:06:29 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 It's like there's so many of these problems with government that it's just like rational thinking is-

Speaker 1:06:34 Exactly

Joe Rogan 1:06:34 ... and that's one of, one of the great interviews that I loved about you, you were eating an apple-

Speaker 1:06:38 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:06:39 ... and you were talking to this guy who was being completely ridiculous, and you were asking him to define what, the, the issues that he had, and it was so funny. It was like this is what happens when a rational person meets a person with empty narratives.

Speaker 1:06:50 It was such a weird moment because-

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 You just kept eating that apple. [laughs]

Speaker 1:06:54 It was such a, it was such a good apple. It was so good.

Joe Rogan 1:06:57 [laughs]

Speaker 1:06:57 That's the thing. And the thing is, I didn't even realize I was being taped. I thought it was a print interview.

Joe Rogan 1:07:02 Oh, that's hilarious.

Speaker 1:07:03 So [laughs] that's why I think I was so relaxed. Uh, but so I'm in the most beautiful place in the world. If you ever, if you haven't been to the Okanagan, it's unbelievable. Like, it's lakes, it's mountains, it's nice dry weather, and there's orchards and vineyards there. Like, you'd love it. And so I'm in an apple orchard, and I'm walking around just talking with people, and my staff says, "This reporter wants to do an interview," and I'm enjoying the apple. He comes up, starts asking questions. Nobody who was there thought this was a moment. Like, we thought nothing of it. We dumped the whole thing. My t- my staff, unbeknownst to me, was recording my whole walk. We dumped this 15-minute video on the internet, and no one noticed it, and like three weeks later-My phone blows up and people say, "Hey, how about that apple?" I'm, "What is he, what are they talking about, this apple thing?" And then-

Joe Rogan 1:07:47 Yeah

Speaker 1:07:47 ... you know, within three days, everybody's talking to me about this damn apple that I had almost forgotten about eating.

Joe Rogan 1:07:53 Well-

Speaker 1:07:53 So it's one of those weird things

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 ... that conversation sort of, it embodied this issue. It really did. Because you have rational thinking and empty narratives colliding-

Speaker 1:08:06 Right

Joe Rogan 1:08:06 ... while you're eating an apple. Like, you're so casual about it, you're actually eating an apple, which was so perfect. I mean, you couldn't... If, if you planned on, like, if you had a PR team, "I think you should be eating an apple."

Speaker 1:08:16 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:08:17 They'd be like, "Ooh, I like it." So he's casual, he's eating fruit, it's healthy. You know?

Speaker 1:08:22 It was-

Joe Rogan 1:08:23 It was perfect

Speaker 1:08:23 ... totally coincidence. Like out of nowhere, not planned, and not even noticed. Like I said, no one there thought this was going to be a moment. We just like, totally forgot about it.

Joe Rogan 1:08:32 Well, it made it in America.

Speaker 1:08:34 And I flew up. Buy-

Joe Rogan 1:08:34 It was viral in America, and we were like, "How come that guy's not the prime minister?"

Speaker 1:08:37 Well, you-

Joe Rogan 1:08:38 "What the hell's going on?"

Speaker 1:08:39 Well, in the meantime, you can buy Ambrosio apples from, uh, the South Okanagan. I'm really plugging a lot of, uh, sales for the Canadian economy today. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:08:46 You know what I found out about Canadian, um, uh, maple syrup?

Speaker 1:08:51 What's that?

Joe Rogan 1:08:51 It is actually a superfood, and it is actually better for you than honey.

Speaker 1:08:56 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 1:08:57 Yeah, it contains a bunch of polyphenols and a bunch of like, healthy nutrients.

Speaker 1:09:02 That's great.

Joe Rogan 1:09:02 I always thought maple syrup was just a guilty pleasure you poured on pancakes.

Speaker 1:09:05 No, it's a totally Canadian thing.

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 But apparently it's really good for you.

Speaker 1:09:08 So you take it before your workout?

Joe Rogan 1:09:09 No. No, I just watched a Instagram video yesterday.

Speaker 1:09:12 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 Somebody sent it to me.

Speaker 1:09:14 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:09:14 And I was like, "What is this?"

Speaker 1:09:15 We'll have to send you a bunch of maple syrup from Canada if we can get it in.

Joe Rogan 1:09:18 Oh, I've got a bunch. I've had a bunch of Canadian friends who sent me some.

Speaker 1:09:19 We actually have a maple syrup reserve in Canada, like a reserve of, of excess stockpiles.

Joe Rogan 1:09:25 Like a oil reserve?

Speaker 1:09:26 Well, we don't have an oil reserve. This is something I wanna change.

Joe Rogan 1:09:28 [laughs]

Speaker 1:09:28 I wanna have an oil reserve, but I also wanna keep the maple syrup reserve, 'cause we're Canadians after all. There's nothing more Canadian than that.

Joe Rogan 1:09:35 Well, it's so delicious. I can't believe it's good for you. Make sure that's true.

Speaker 1:09:39 It should-

Speaker 1:09:39 I, uh, I mean, in what way is it true?

Joe Rogan 1:09:42 Uh, are there nutrients? Let's put it into Perplexity-

Speaker 1:09:45 No, I did, I did

Joe Rogan 1:09:45 ... our sponsor.

Speaker 1:09:46 I mean, it, I compared it versus honey. I'll give you what it showed.

Joe Rogan 1:09:48 What does it say?

Speaker 1:09:48 But that's not saying it's like, better, um-

Joe Rogan 1:09:50 Maple syrup and honey are both sugary, but maple syrup is slightly lower in calories, glycemic index, has more minerals like mag- magnase, mag- manganese, and calcium, while honey is a bit higher in calories, has a slightly stronger impact on blood sugar. Well, this guy on, uh, Instagram was very convincing. I wish I saved it.

Speaker 1:10:11 I think it's convincing. I think you should go with it.

Joe Rogan 1:10:13 I'm in it.

Speaker 1:10:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:14 I'm done.

Speaker 1:10:15 Stick with it.

Joe Rogan 1:10:15 Tastes better, too.

Speaker 1:10:17 Yeah, it's the best.

Joe Rogan 1:10:18 Yeah.

Speaker 1:10:18 It's fantastic. Put that with a little bit of Greek yogurt, you get your protein.

Joe Rogan 1:10:21 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:10:22 That's what I do.

Joe Rogan 1:10:23 There you go.

Speaker 1:10:23 Greek yogurt. That's the secret.

Joe Rogan 1:10:24 And maple syrup.

Speaker 1:10:25 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:10:25 Maybe start a trend.

Speaker 1:10:26 Ab-

Joe Rogan 1:10:26 'Cause everybody uses honey on their yogurt.

Speaker 1:10:28 No, maple syrup from Canada.

Joe Rogan 1:10:29 All right.

Speaker 1:10:30 'Cause if it's not from Canada, it's not the real deal.

Joe Rogan 1:10:31 Well, there's a lot of fake syrup, right?

Speaker 1:10:33 There's a lot of junk out there.

Joe Rogan 1:10:35 A lot of fake maple syrup. Yeah.

Speaker 1:10:35 When you go to a pancake house and they have that stuff in the little c- plastic cups, that's garbage.

Joe Rogan 1:10:39 Corn syrup crap.

Speaker 1:10:40 Yeah, you don't wanna have-

Joe Rogan 1:10:41 Yeah

Speaker 1:10:41 ... that's manufactured crap. You know.

Joe Rogan 1:10:43 Well, that's the case with honey as well. I had a woman in here once that was a beekeeper, and she was explaining to us that a lot of, uh, honey is not actually honey. They water it down with, uh, corn syrup. And they're just-

Speaker 1:10:53 There's so much shit in our food these days.

Joe Rogan 1:10:55 Yes.

Speaker 1:10:55 Well, I, I believe in eating clean.

Joe Rogan 1:10:58 100%. Well, I mean, that was one of the primary factors, uh, for me supporting this administration, was RFK Jr. and this Make America Healthy Again initiative. 'Cause I think, you know, w- I had my friend Brigham Buehler yesterday from Ways to Well on, and you know, we've hammered this many times over and over again, but people need to hear it. We spend more money on healthcare, and we're sicker than we've ever been before, and we have more chronic illness, and we have more money. None of it makes any sense. It's completely ridiculous, and it's obvious that people are eating the wrong things. And there was so much outrage of him implementing all these healthy choices and trying to get rid of dyes that are illegal in Canada. Like, the same cereals that the same factory sells in Canada, they sell with natural dyes, and in America, we demand them to be more colorful, so we put poison in them.

Speaker 1:11:51 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:11:52 Yeah.

Speaker 1:11:53 Is that, now, now what, what are the, uh, what do you think are the dietary habits that are making people in the Western world sick right now? Like, is, is it the dyes? Is it the sugars? Is it the carbs?

Joe Rogan 1:12:06 There's a lot of things.

Speaker 1:12:06 Like, what, what's getting people in your view?

Joe Rogan 1:12:08 There's a lot of things. First of all, it's processed foods. Processed foods is a, an enormous percentage of a lot of Americans' diets.

Speaker 1:12:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:12:16 Things with massive amounts of preservatives in them, and that, that's... Like, if you want, like, a general guideline, eat real food. Eat real eggs, real vegetables, real meat, real fish. You'll be healthier.

Speaker 1:12:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:30 As soon as you start having things that can sit on a shelf forever, except things like rice and, you know, normal beans, like, things that are dried, that make sense they could sit there. But if something can just sit on a shelf for a long period of time and you consume it, how is it just not rotting?

Speaker 1:12:45 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:12:45 Like, I'm, I'm sure you've seen where they've taken a McDonald's Big Mac, and they've just let it sit.

Speaker 1:12:50 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:12:50 They take a cheeseburger in a box, and the guy pulls it out like 10 years later, it looks exactly the same. That's not food.

Speaker 1:12:56 [laughs] The bacteria didn't wanna eat it.

Joe Rogan 1:12:58 Yeah.

Speaker 1:12:58 They looked at it and they were like, "I'm not eating that."

Joe Rogan 1:13:00 If bacteria doesn't eat it, if mold doesn't eat it, that's crazy.

Speaker 1:13:03 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:13:03 Why are you eating it? Like, there's something in it preventing the mold from growing.

Speaker 1:13:07 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:13:08 What is that? Well, that stuff fucks with your gut bacteria. It's, it's terrible for your body. And empty calories, and we, we consume an enormous amount of processed food in this country. And if you wanna be a healthier person, eat real fruit, eat real food, eat real vegetables, eat real meat. It's that simple.

Speaker 1:13:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:27 Just that, that would fix 90% of our problems when it comes to people's diets.

Speaker 1:13:34 And we, like, w- when my, uh, my wife once looked at, uh, some of the baby formula we had, and she said, she looked on it, and she said, "There's no expiry date on this. This never goes bad."

Joe Rogan 1:13:42 That's crazy.

Speaker 1:13:43 That, that can't be-

Joe Rogan 1:13:44 Right

Speaker 1:13:44 ... that can't be a good thing.

Joe Rogan 1:13:45 Right.

Speaker 1:13:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:45 Meanwhile, breast milk you have to freeze, right?

Speaker 1:13:47 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:13:48 Yeah.

Speaker 1:13:48 So, uh... And then what about on the, like, the fitness side? What do you think we can do, I mean, beyond, you're, you've done a lotJust talking about it, with your, the size of your audience, you've probably got a lot of people off the couch, but what policies do you think we could push that would get people physically active, working out, moving again?

Joe Rogan 1:14:08 Well, the real important thing is community. The, the easiest way to get fit is to, to get around a bunch of other people that are also involved in the same endeavor.

Speaker 1:14:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:14:16 Right? If you have a bunch of friends that are unhappy with the way their life is, like, just go walk together. Say, "Hey, guys, let's all go for a walk after dinner together."

Speaker 1:14:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:14:26 "Let's all decide, like, as a neighborhood, to go walk."

Speaker 1:14:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:14:29 Just walk for a half an hour after your meals. It'll lower your glycemic index. It'll change your body. It'll make you healthier. You'll feel better.

Speaker 1:14:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:14:38 You know? It, it just does so much for you, just movement and activity, and if you're involved with a group of people that are also inclined in the same direction, they're also trying to get better, trying to get fit, then you kind of, you're, y- you know, you feed off of your atmosphere.

Speaker 1:14:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:14:55 People imitate the people that are around them, and you get support from the people that are around them. You know, make it a little healthy competition. You know, who can, you know, d- do the most exercise and who can do the most, you know, what- whatever it is. Like, whether it's a sport or whether it's a game or whether it's just something that you enjoy doing that's physically, physically taxing slightly.

Speaker 1:15:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:15:18 It doesn't have to be a crazy kettlebell workout or a jujitsu class. Just take a, just take a walk. Just t- d- just the... If the world, if the, uh, United States or Canada or anybody that's got problems with their health just decided to start walking-

Speaker 1:15:33 Right

Joe Rogan 1:15:33 ... every day for 20 minutes, it'll change your life.

Speaker 1:15:35 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:15:36 And then add things to it. Add some body weight squats. Add some pushups. Skip a little rope.

Speaker 1:15:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:15:40 Do something. Take a yoga class. It'll change your life.

Speaker 1:15:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:15:45 Just-

Speaker 1:15:45 Absolutely

Joe Rogan 1:15:45 ... you need activity. The human body has needs, and when it doesn't, those needs are not met, and you don't, your biological requirements aren't met, you get, develop anxiety, you get overweight, your, your muscles atrophy, your bone density decreases. You can't open up a jar anymore. There's all these problems that could be solved with just simple movement and activity. You don't have to become a fitness nut. You don't have to become a gym rat. You just do something, and that alone. And then change what you eat. Drink more water. Stop drinking soda.

Speaker 1:16:19 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:16:19 Stop, stop drinking so much alcohol. You know? Stop eating processed food. If we just slowly but surely get this in people's heads. For the longest time, people didn't think there was anything wrong with eating processed food. They didn't think there was anything wrong with... They, they thought sugar just gave you extra calories. That's it. They didn't realize the catastrophic health consequences of consuming all this sugar, the increase in type 2 diabetes, all these problems that are, people are having, that people are having because of poor diet-

Speaker 1:16:48 So what's your-

Joe Rogan 1:16:48 ... and a lack of movement

Speaker 1:16:49 ... what's your theory, though, on how that ha- why did that happen? Why did, wh- what caused millions of people to shift their diets away from good, wholesome, real food towards the processed garbage?

Joe Rogan 1:17:01 Well, first of all, marketing, right? Um, and availability, right? The, the, the s- they always say the center of the grocery store is what you should avoid-

Speaker 1:17:11 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:17:11 ... 'cause the center is all the stuff that doesn't need to be refrigerated, right? Everything on the outskirts, all the vegetables and the fruit and the meats and the milk, that's all the stuff that's healthy-

Speaker 1:17:18 Right

Joe Rogan 1:17:18 ... because it has to be refrigerated.

Speaker 1:17:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:17:20 'Cause if it's not, it goes bad. Things that can just sit on a shelf, but things that sit on a shelf forever, those are the things that are the easiest to profit from because you don't have to worry about storage. You don't have to worry about refrigeration when you're processing or when you're moving them and transporting them. You know, just, uh, education is the most important thing 'cause, uh, there's a lot of people that don't know how much their diet impacts them, and then there's also the problems that happen in this country where the sugar industry literally bribed scientists to pass the blame on saturated fat and pretend that this was the cause of all these heart issues that people were having and all the obesity, that it was just fat. So then people started eating all these seed oil-rich foods, like mayonnaise, or excuse me, like, uh, margarine and, you know, and corn oil and canola oil, all this-

Speaker 1:18:08 When it's better just to have tallow or butter.

Joe Rogan 1:18:10 Yes.

Speaker 1:18:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:11 It's like natural food. Your body knows what to do with it.

Speaker 1:18:14 Yeah, and beef is like a superfood.

Joe Rogan 1:18:16 Yeah.

Speaker 1:18:16 A nice fatty piece of beef, best thing you can eat. Got a-

Joe Rogan 1:18:19 It's so good for you, and this-

Speaker 1:18:20 You've got iron, you've got fat, you've got protein and creatine. It's all packed in that one superfood.

Joe Rogan 1:18:27 It is, and people, there's a lot of people that live very healthily off a carnivore diet, and that astounds people. They don't understand it because they've been pushed into this idea... Well, one of the things they did in America that's great is they reversed the food pyramid. Our food pyramid was all grains at the bottom, was all wheat and grains, which is... Like, there's nothing wrong with eating that as long as you're being smart about it, you don't eat too much of it. But if that's your primary diet, like, guess what? Your insulin's gonna spike. You're gonna be hungry all the time. You're gonna get fat.

Speaker 1:18:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:57 This is not good.

Speaker 1:18:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:58 It's not good to eat that way.

Speaker 1:18:59 When I cut the carbs out and I went basically, uh, into ketosis, um, I felt great because instead of having all the ups and downs when my blood sugar was down, uh, when you're in ketosis, you, um, you basically live off your fat stores.

Joe Rogan 1:19:13 Yes.

Speaker 1:19:14 So you have, like, a s- a consistent flow of energy whenever you need it 'cause w- and I've always said, "I've got some here." And, and so, uh, I, I feel lighter. I s- I have to sleep less now. I don't have to sleep as much 'cause I don't dr- I don't eat the big, heavy carbs. I mean, I cheat once in a while, but, but the big, heavy carbs that your body breaks down, you gotta f- you gotta sleep more to work through all those heavy carbs, so I don't even-

Joe Rogan 1:19:34 I know you feel it when you eat 'em.

Speaker 1:19:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:36 I love carbs. Don't get me wrong. Like, I lo- I'm Italian.

Speaker 1:19:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:39 I love spaghetti.

Speaker 1:19:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:19:40 I love pizza. I love Italian subs. I love 'em, but I eat 'em sparingly.

Speaker 1:19:45 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:19:45 And when I eat 'em, I feel it. I feel it. Like, it's amazing while you're eating it, and then you're like, "Ugh."

Speaker 1:19:50 Yeah. [laughs] You get hit with a tranquilizer dart.

Joe Rogan 1:19:51 Like you got hit with a tranquilizer dart. It's just not good. It's not good for you. If I eat a steak, I feel great. If I eat a steak, I don't feel, uh, w-... uh, I don't feel in any way tired-

Speaker 1:20:02 Right

Joe Rogan 1:20:02 ... after I'm done. I don't feel exhausted, like completely full. Also, they have a high satiety rate. Like when you- if you eat just steak, you're only gonna eat what you need. Like this, your body knows when to stop. But if there's mashed potatoes next to the steak, and spaghetti next to the steak, and bread, and all these other things, you're just gonna keep eating.

Speaker 1:20:21 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:20:21 And then cake, and butter, and ice, well, or not butter, but like cake, and ice cream, and all this other sh- you're gonna keep eating, and you're gonna consume excess calories.

Speaker 1:20:29 But, but beef is really expensive now. Like, it's really hard to put a steak on your plate. Uh, these, for the average guy, it's, it's insane. It's twice as expensive as pork in Canada right now. It's a small-

Joe Rogan 1:20:39 Well, there's also this dumb narrative that cows are responsible for climate change-

Speaker 1:20:43 Right. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:20:43 ... which is just absolutely insane. And whoever started promoting that needs to go to jail, 'cause it's, uh, you've done a terrible disservice to people, especially regenerative farming that's, uh, you know, actually sequesters carbon.

Speaker 1:20:56 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:20:57 And it's, it's healthy for you. It's like-

Speaker 1:20:59 No, the, the farming, uh, the, the ranchers in my area are fantastic. They produce an incredible product. We've got this, the, the, North America has the smallest cattle herd since 1951 this year.

Joe Rogan 1:21:09 That's nuts.

Speaker 1:21:10 Very small herd, and that's why it's so hard to get beef.

Joe Rogan 1:21:12 Why is that? What, what happened?

Speaker 1:21:14 Um, I think, uh, I think there's been a, a demand spike in the last couple of years. Um, beef prices were low for long, so a lot of ranchers got out of it. They just said, "We can't, I can't stay in this business losing money every year." And then all of a sudden k- prices started to go up, and, uh, and g- moods have changed a lot on beef, even in the last three, four years. So now they're trying to keep up with the demand. But, um, I'd like, I'm happy to see the, the, the ranchers doing well, but I'd sure like to see middle-class families to be able to afford to have beef again. Um, but you know, ba- my theory on one of the reasons why the marketing has shifted towards all this processed crap, and then this goes back to my obsession, which is inflation. Because what, instead of just raising the prices, they downgrade the quality of the food. They strip out the nutrients, and they inject garbage into our food, uh, the, the, the companies do, that ul- is ultimately less nutritious, but yet the price tag doesn't necessarily look like it's changing. So it's one of the more like insidious ways that the, the system is able to charge you, to, to, to pass inflationary costs on without you seeing it in that, the price tag th- that's underneath the product, so-

Joe Rogan 1:22:27 They also engineer food to be compulsive. Like you, you're more compulsively-

Speaker 1:22:31 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 1:22:32 ... gonna overeat. Yeah, sure, especially like chips and stuff like that in America.

Speaker 1:22:35 What country do you think does nutrition the best around the world?

Joe Rogan 1:22:39 Well, that's a good question. Um, well, Japan has one of the lowest obesity rates, right? And when you look at Japanese food, like what is it? It's like fish, and rice, and vegetables, and it's, it's, they don't use glyphosate, I don't think. I think, uh, I think the way they process their wheat is very different than ours. You know, we have, uh, higher glycemic... We, we have higher gluten in our wheat, 'cause of like, we have more complex glutens in our wheat, so we have higher yield. And then on top of that, they dry all the wheat out with glyphosate at the end, which is fucking terrible for you.

Speaker 1:23:13 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 1:23:13 And they were trying to ban that in America, but then Trump passed an executive order, uh, b- stopping it.

Speaker 1:23:22 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:23:22 So this is one of the things that Kennedy kind of ran on, is that he wanted to stop the ubiquitous use of glyphosate.

Speaker 1:23:28 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:23:29 And especially glyphosate, y- you know, used with wheat to dry it out. So it's not used, uh, as an herbicide. It's used to dry out the wheat-

Speaker 1:23:40 Okay

Joe Rogan 1:23:40 ... at the end so that it doesn't get moldy.

Speaker 1:23:42 Ah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:42 Which is crazy.

Speaker 1:23:43 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:23:43 You're spraying poison on wheat. And most Americans, if you test them, have glyphosate in their blood. You know, and the apologists will say, "Oh, but it's at safe levels." Well, we don't even really know what that means. You know, we're talking about decades and decades of, of d- consuming this stuff. That can't be good.

Speaker 1:24:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:24:02 I mean, it literally kills plants. It, it destroys gut bacteria. It can't be good. It would, would be better. When you eat overseas, like if I eat pasta or bread in, in Italy, it, you feel better.

Speaker 1:24:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:24:14 It doesn't kill you like it does in America. It doesn't, like, ugh. You don't get that same feeling.

Speaker 1:24:19 Interesting. I didn't know, I don't know anything about glyphosate. But, um, one of the things I-

Joe Rogan 1:24:24 Do you guys use glyphosate in Canada?

Speaker 1:24:26 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:24:26 No?

Speaker 1:24:26 I don't know anything about it. I sh- I, I feel bad saying that, but I should do my homework on that one. I don't know about it.

Joe Rogan 1:24:30 Well, we have corn that's engineered to survive glyphosate. We have Roundup-ready corn. So, so that you could spray glyphosate on the corn that kills all the other things that you don't want growing.

Speaker 1:24:41 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:24:42 But how is that g- how can that be good? Like, most Amer- uh, like they, they did a test of, uh, California wines, and what was the number? It was like some preposterous number of California wines tested positive for glyphosate.

Speaker 1:24:59 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 1:24:59 Like in the high 90s, I think.

Speaker 1:25:01 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:25:01 Which is just nuts.

Speaker 1:25:03 Yeah, I don't know anything about glyphosate, I have to admit.

Joe Rogan 1:25:06 Well, it's-

Speaker 1:25:06 Although I reassure you, you've piqued my curiosity.

Joe Rogan 1:25:08 The problem is in America, our food system is entirely dependent on it at this point.

Speaker 1:25:15 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:25:15 You know, they wanna change it, and so there's a lot of strategies. One of them is they're, they, they have these machines that use lasers, and these lasers go over a field and actually target the weeds. So instead of spraying poison on them, they just zap these weeds, and they can identify the difference between the weed and the crop.

Speaker 1:25:33 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:25:33 Yeah.

Speaker 1:25:34 That's incredible.

Joe Rogan 1:25:35 Yeah.

Speaker 1:25:35 The wine was 10 out of 10 tested, but this is the-

Joe Rogan 1:25:37 10 out of 10?

Speaker 1:25:38 I was looking up the Jp- Japanese obesity thing. They have an interesting law that they put in place in 2008 where, uh, I believe it says workplaces have to measure people's waists of adults over 40 to find out if they're potentially overweight.

Speaker 1:25:53 Wow.

Speaker 1:25:54 Those people don't get fined. The companies get fined, so they have to then provide them counseling, diet advice, exercise guidance.

Joe Rogan 1:26:01 Wow

Speaker 1:26:02 And they also use a lower BMI than we do. Their, theirs starts at 25, and it says it's because they have a higher risk in Asian populations for, uh, obesity.

Joe Rogan 1:26:13 Interesting. I wonder why that is.

Speaker 1:26:15 That's something-

Joe Rogan 1:26:16 I wonder if that's 'cause of a lot of rice consumption

Speaker 1:26:19 ... Um, way lower, four per six, 4.4 to 6% compared to 42%.

Joe Rogan 1:26:23 Wow, that's crazy. Their obesity rates are 4 to 6%, and we're 42. [laughs]

Speaker 1:26:31 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:26:31 42 is nuts. 42 is so crazy.

Speaker 1:26:34 We've got to find out what the Japanese are doing. My next stop has gotta be Tokyo.

Joe Rogan 1:26:38 Yeah. Well, they eat healthy food, you know? And, uh, that, but that does make sense. I mean, implementing something like that, it sounds very restrictive, you know? I mean, I don't wanna tell a guy he can't have a gut. Like, I, I have a lot of friends that are fat, and I love them to death.

Speaker 1:26:51 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:26:51 I, I'd like them to be healthy, but y- I wouldn't... Y- you know, I don't believe you should have that kind of control over people.

Speaker 1:26:59 No.

Joe Rogan 1:26:59 I think you should encourage healthy behavior. I don't think you should mandate it.

Speaker 1:27:03 Yeah, we need s- we need carrots, not sticks.

Joe Rogan 1:27:05 Yeah.

Speaker 1:27:06 C- carrots literally.

Joe Rogan 1:27:07 Literally. [laughs]

Speaker 1:27:08 But the, the system is like, um... You know, I think the opioid thing, that's an incredible story, really.

Joe Rogan 1:27:14 That's a horrible story.

Speaker 1:27:15 Um-

Joe Rogan 1:27:16 That's a horrible story, and you know, the fact that no one's going to jail for that is infuriating.

Speaker 1:27:22 They should.

Joe Rogan 1:27:22 What they did and what the, the deception that they used to pretend that that stuff is not addictive, that it's not the same as heroin, is just absolutely atrocious. And the fact that they got away with it and that the Sackler family, just that one family... I don't know if you've ever seen the Netflix docudrama series-

Speaker 1:27:41 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:27:41 ... Painkill- or what was it? Was it called Painkiller?

Speaker 1:27:45 They're the guys-

Joe Rogan 1:27:46 Yeah

Speaker 1:27:46 ... from, uh, Purdue, right? Purdue Pharma.

Joe Rogan 1:27:49 Yes.

Speaker 1:27:49 I think they were Purdue Pharma-

Joe Rogan 1:27:50 Yes

Speaker 1:27:50 ... if I'm not mistaken.

Joe Rogan 1:27:51 I mean, how many lives were destroyed by that?

Speaker 1:27:54 Well, a f- half a million ended in the US.

Joe Rogan 1:27:58 Yeah, at least.

Speaker 1:28:00 And 50,000 in Canada. We lo- we lost more people in the last 10 years to opioid overdoses than we lost fighting in the Second World War.

Joe Rogan 1:28:08 Oh my God.

Speaker 1:28:08 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:28:09 That's so crazy

Speaker 1:28:10 ... and we, you know, these companies, I mean, it started in the States with Purdue and, uh, a number of others, where they basically started lying to the system and paying... They actually paid bonuses to distributors for every overdose they caused.

Joe Rogan 1:28:26 What?

Speaker 1:28:26 They actually tracked the overdoses and then paid bonuses to distributors because that was an indicator of how successfully they were pushing the drugs onto doctors and pharmacists and the system.

Joe Rogan 1:28:38 No way.

Speaker 1:28:38 This all came, all came out in the, in the court, uh, 'cause there was a huge lawsuit, and they, the companies had to pay $50 billion because of an American government lawsuit against them, but they actually paid bonuses for overdose rates.

Joe Rogan 1:28:52 That is-

Speaker 1:28:52 It's true

Joe Rogan 1:28:53 ... insane.

Speaker 1:28:54 It's wild. And they, they basically, they were very, very strategic. They said, "We're gonna go to working class neighborhoods where there's huge, you know, unemployment," so you know, in the Rust Belt of America, where people were out of work, and they obviously had some in- minor industrial injuries, and said, "You know, this will solve every ache and pain. Take OxyContin." And it felt great when they first started taking it, and then it spread into Canada as well, and then it mutated in from OxyContin into fentanyl, which is 100 times more powerful than heroin. It can stop your, your lungs in 15 seconds, just absolutely deadly. And, uh, we, you know, these companies, these dirt bag companies should be paying, uh, hundreds of billions of dollars to cover the treatment and recovery of the people whose lives have been ruined by this.

Joe Rogan 1:29:43 Well, it's just insane that they only had to pay a percentage of the amount of money that they profited.

Speaker 1:29:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:29:51 And-

Speaker 1:29:51 It is insane

Joe Rogan 1:29:51 ... they sh-

Speaker 1:29:52 They should have gone to jail.

Joe Rogan 1:29:53 They should have gone to j-

Speaker 1:29:54 It's-

Joe Rogan 1:29:54 They should have had to pay, first of all, give all the money back.

Speaker 1:29:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:57 I mean, what you did was unbelievably evil.

Speaker 1:30:01 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:30:01 And you were allowed to profit from it, which is crazy. Like-

Speaker 1:30:04 For years

Joe Rogan 1:30:05 ... even the Sackler family, the amount that they got fined was a, a, a small percentage of what they actually made.

Speaker 1:30:11 I don't know how people live with themselves when they do that.

Joe Rogan 1:30:13 They're sociopaths.

Speaker 1:30:14 Um, but they-

Joe Rogan 1:30:14 They have to be

Speaker 1:30:15 ... they basically got into the entire system, the healthcare system, the medical acu- community, and they pushed these over-prescriptions. Um, and then they got this crazy idea that they pushed in places like Portland and Seattle and San Francisco, that the government should start giving out opioids that are safer than the ones that are on the street as an alternative to keep people from having contaminated drugs, which made the problem even worse because those, the, the, the addicts would sell those to kids so that they could buy the harder stuff off the street, and it expanded it even more.

Joe Rogan 1:30:48 Ugh.

Speaker 1:30:48 And, um, so one of the things we're focused on in my plan is, is massive treatment and recovery programs to get people off drugs. Abstinence-based treatment is incredible. Like, it's very successful, and, uh, we're saving lives now in Canada. You get them in, you get them counseling, group therapy, treatment, uh, sweat lodges for First Nations, uh, peoples. Um, physical exercise is a big part of it. I went to one treatment center in Saskatchewan, and they actually bought these rusted out weights, and they had, they had the guys, like, lifting weights, and the, the bureaucrats are saying, "Well, why are you spending mon- money on weights? What does that have to do with it?" He says, "Well, it's been the best thing we had." These guys started to see their biceps grow, and they're like, "I wanna look like this, and if I take drugs, I'm not gonna look like this." So it was one of the, the best things they did. Um, then you get them into jobs and treatment, and, uh, there's one guy that, uh, I met in BC. He, he was gonna kill himself. He drove his car into a brick wall because he was so ruined by his addiction, but he didn't die. He couldn't even pull it off. So he actually went into treatment, turned his life around, started a business. He's got six employees, and now he's going out on the street and, like, helping, you know, pulling guys off the street and bringing them in and saving their lives. So, uh, it's actually a really hopeful ending to the story if we can get to shift all our resources over to treatment and recovery services, which is one of my big, uh, objectives.

Joe Rogan 1:32:07 Are you aware of ibogaine?

Speaker 1:32:09 No.

Joe Rogan 1:32:10 So former Republican governor of Texas, Rick Perry, is involved in this ibogaine initiative here in Texas. And one of the things that they found, you know, he works very closely with veterans and, uh, you know, obviously a lot of these guys, they come back from the war, they have PTSD, they have a lot of pain, they get addicted to pills, and then they have an incredibly difficult time getting off of it. And there's a, a treatment called ibogaine, and ibogaine comes from the iboga tree. It's, uh, like a natural psychedelic that has no recreational use whatsoever.

Speaker 1:32:47 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:32:47 It's not fun.

Speaker 1:32:48 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:32:48 And it's, uh, it's apparently a brutal 24-hour experience, but it rewires the brain.

Speaker 1:32:54 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:32:55 Stops the pathways of addiction. And just one ibogaine treatment, one session, the amount of people that never go back to using those drugs is in the 80%.

Speaker 1:33:07 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:33:07 When they do two sessions, it's in the 90s.

Speaker 1:33:10 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:33:11 It's incredible. So they're implementing it here. And Rick Perry, who was like a staunch anti-drug, hardline Republican guy, great guy-

Speaker 1:33:20 Okay

Joe Rogan 1:33:20 ... but realized from talking to these veterans, maybe you have to have an open mind and look at this. We have this blanket term that we use for drugs, and we say, "Oh, ibogaine's a drug. You don't wanna take drugs." But this psychedelic, this ibogaine, apparently it, it's like a 24-hour review of your life that in some way, some chemical way, rewires your system and stops the pathways of addiction.

Speaker 1:33:50 It's like a factory reset.

Joe Rogan 1:33:51 Yes.

Speaker 1:33:52 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:33:52 Yes.

Speaker 1:33:53 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 1:33:54 And so they're starting to implement it here in Texas, and they're gonna use it for veterans.

Speaker 1:33:57 So, so have they studied this? Have they done like a-

Joe Rogan 1:33:59 Yes

Speaker 1:33:59 ... and they've done... Is it approved, like, as a treatment, or what, what?

Joe Rogan 1:34:02 Well, it's being approved here in Texas, and they're trying to do it in other places. And I know, uh, a friend of mine, my friend Ed Clay, he started a, a center down in Mexico. And the reason why he did it was 'cause he got hooked on pills. He hurt his back, he got hooked on pills. He had to figure out how to get off of it, and he did one ibogaine session, got clean-

Speaker 1:34:20 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:34:20 ... and was like, "I need to educate people and help people with this."

Speaker 1:34:24 [laughs] This is wild.

Joe Rogan 1:34:24 "Let me start this system." And, you know, and it's very successful. I know multiple people that have done it, and, uh, especially veterans, that have done it and had profound changes in their life because of this.

Speaker 1:34:37 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:34:37 Yeah.

Speaker 1:34:38 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:34:38 And again, there's no recreational use for this. There's no chance of abusing it.

Speaker 1:34:42 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:34:43 Ag- it's not fun. Like, to get people to do it twice is very hard.

Speaker 1:34:47 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:34:47 But if... Even doing it once. But if you do it, it's incredibly effective. Much more effective than any other form of therapy.

Speaker 1:34:54 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:34:55 Yes.

Speaker 1:34:55 Okay. Well, I'll have to look out for that one 'cause we need it. We still have a challenge up in Canada.

Joe Rogan 1:34:59 I can connect you-

Speaker 1:35:00 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:35:00 ... with Rick Perry.

Speaker 1:35:01 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:35:01 And, and he's, he's r- him and Bryan Hubbard are, are incredible with their, the advocacy and the, the promotion of this. What they've done is really amazing.

Speaker 1:35:11 Yeah, we gotta, we gotta get, uh, get people off these drugs. And, uh, you know, we're, we're doing, we're making some good progress in Canada. Um, our biggest challenges are, are just the long-term aftermath of the opioid, uh, problem, like you have had down here.

Joe Rogan 1:35:26 Yeah.

Speaker 1:35:26 But, um, but, like, I think, uh, I think we can overcome it, and, uh, we have to try some new things in order to get people off these things 'cause they're, 'cause it's... When you're doing fentanyl, it's, it's Russian roulette. It-

Joe Rogan 1:35:37 Yes

Speaker 1:35:37 ... could be... You, you might not have more than a day to live if you're still taking that stuff, so.

Joe Rogan 1:35:41 Oh, it's so dangerous.

Speaker 1:35:42 Yeah, it's an emergency.

Joe Rogan 1:35:42 And it's in everything. It's in so many different, um, street versions of pills that people think are safe.

Speaker 1:35:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:35:50 Like Xanax. There's, like, uh, uh, illegal Xanax, like street Xanax, and there's fentanyl in them. People take it and they die.

Speaker 1:35:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:35:57 Yeah.

Speaker 1:35:57 Absolutely. I've met so many mothers. They just come up to me at my rallies and things, and they tell me the story, and they show me a picture, and you say, "Man, that's a beautiful child. That child looks healthy and smart," and she went to a party, and they were handing the shit out, and now she's over.

Joe Rogan 1:36:10 There's a high school kid here in town that took, uh, a, a street Adderall, and it had fentanyl in it, and he died.

Speaker 1:36:16 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 1:36:17 Yeah, somebody sold him what he thought was Adderall. Look, that's what killed Prince. That's what killed Tom Petty.

Speaker 1:36:23 Adderall?

Joe Rogan 1:36:23 Uh, no, no. Fentanyl.

Speaker 1:36:24 Fentanyl.

Joe Rogan 1:36:25 They got street drugs from someone. Like, they're both in pain, and they, they become addicted to the pills, and then they got, like, a pill from a roadie-

Speaker 1:36:34 I didn't know that

Joe Rogan 1:36:34 ... and took it and died.

Speaker 1:36:36 I didn't know that. Petty, did he sing, uh, Last Dance-

Joe Rogan 1:36:39 Oh, he-

Speaker 1:36:39 ... with Mary Jane?

Joe Rogan 1:36:39 Last Chance for Mary Jane, yeah.

Speaker 1:36:40 Right. That's really sad.

Joe Rogan 1:36:42 Oh, he sung a bunch of amazing songs. American Girl. I mean, Tom Petty was a legend, and died because of fentanyl. Prince, one of the great musical genius, uh, of, uh, you know, of human history. And-

Speaker 1:36:52 And fentanyl got him too

Joe Rogan 1:36:53 ... died from fentanyl.

Speaker 1:36:54 Unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 1:36:54 Yeah. He had hip pain. He needed a hip replacement. His hip was blown out, and he was in agony all the time, so he started taking pills, and then next thing you know, [snaps fingers] you're hooked. And I've had family members that got hooked on it.

Speaker 1:37:06 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 1:37:06 Yeah, that's-

Speaker 1:37:06 Did they get through it?

Joe Rogan 1:37:08 Well, one of them didn't. Yeah, I mean, he, he hurt his back doing construction and started taking pills, and now he's a waste.

Speaker 1:37:16 That's the sad thing.

Joe Rogan 1:37:17 He's just a mess.

Speaker 1:37:17 That's the sad thing is it's, they're good people, and they're not law-breaking people. They're-

Joe Rogan 1:37:21 No

Speaker 1:37:22 ... often it's folks who work in physically demanding jobs. They get an injury-

Joe Rogan 1:37:25 Exactly

Speaker 1:37:26 ... and, uh, it's easy to judge, but when you're in excruciating pain and you find something that makes it go away, you- it's understandable, right?

Joe Rogan 1:37:34 Also, if you're not educated in these subjects-

Speaker 1:37:37 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:37:37 ... and you just trust the doctor, you go to a doctor and the doctor says you need pain medication, and then all of a sudden you're on it.

Speaker 1:37:45 It's, it's, uh, it's easy to see how people get locked into that, and, and then they, they can't break loose, so-

Joe Rogan 1:37:50 Well, the pathway-

Speaker 1:37:51 ... it's worth your time to do that

Joe Rogan 1:37:51 ... to physical addiction is, it's so well known and studied. It's very, very addictive, which is why it's so horrific that they actually promoted the fact that these things are not addictive when they were promoting them.

Speaker 1:38:02 No, they knew exactly what they were doing. They were absolute crooks, and I'm hoping we get big settlements out of them the way you did down here, and I wanna put all that money into treatment and recovery, get people off these drugs, and rescue them. I think we can save these lives. The, the treatment, it works. It, it's tough. Like, the people who go through it, they say, "It's, it was the worst experience of my life to go through that withdrawal," but it can be done, and you come out stronger on the other side.

Joe Rogan 1:38:27 It can be done, and, and I think the most important thing is prevention, and, and education, and letting kids know, like, "Hey, this is not what you wanna get involved with. You wanna have a happy, successful life, this is gonna stop that. This is gonna keep you from having a... This might kill you, and it's definitely gonna ruin you."

Speaker 1:38:44 Yeah, but you're right about fitness though, 'cause when I was young, I, I, w- I hung around with a lot of people who got into a lot of trouble, and I could have ended up there. The reason I didn't, frankly, is sports. So I, I had something else to drive me. So it's one of the reasons why we need to get our young peoples active in sporting activities when they're in that age group. Because if you're not giving them an outlet, then they'll end up down that scary path.

Joe Rogan 1:39:05 Oh, 100%. And also you realize that if you wanna be effective in sports, like you can't party.

Speaker 1:39:10 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:39:10 Like, it's not... It's like y- it'll rob you of your vitality.

Speaker 1:39:13 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:39:14 It'll rob you of your performance.

Speaker 1:39:15 No, I, I, when I played hockey, and I'd, I showed up a few times hungover, and I was just shit.

Joe Rogan 1:39:19 Yeah.

Speaker 1:39:19 Like, it was terrible. But, uh, you learn pretty quick that you gotta be on your game. So we've gotta promote more of the fitness at the, at the, at the youth level as well, and, um, and is that happening here? It's funny. [laughs] I remember when I came down here, um, as a 16-year-old. I haven't been here in 30 years. Um, I, uh... We, we, we got into town, and, uh, the people who were hosting us, uh, w- were driving us to their home, and we saw this stadium, and there was like 20,000 people, and it was in Houston. And I said, "Is that the Cowboys playing?" A- and they said, "No, no, that's a, that's a high school league." [laughs] It's like-

Joe Rogan 1:39:52 Oh, yeah

Speaker 1:39:52 ... okay, in Canada, we don't have high school leagues with 20,000 people coming out. But, um, but the sports are so massive here. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:40:01 Oh, football is gigantic here.

Speaker 1:40:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:03 It's a religion.

Speaker 1:40:04 Yeah, it's incredible.

Joe Rogan 1:40:05 It's crazy. And-

Speaker 1:40:06 Who do you cheer for, by the way?

Joe Rogan 1:40:07 In, in Texas?

Speaker 1:40:09 Yeah. For, you, you personally.

Joe Rogan 1:40:10 Well, I've, I've got into UT football.

Speaker 1:40:13 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:40:13 I really love, uh, going to the UT games. It's, uh, it's so fun, and it's so... They're so enthusiastic, and they're, they, they just love it. It's like when you're a part of it, when the touchdowns get scored and everybody's cheering, it's like, it's so, it's so contagious.

Speaker 1:40:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:40:29 It's really amazing.

Speaker 1:40:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:40:30 And it's just like the enthusiasm they have for it, it's like, you're like, "Wow," like, "this is a great... These people love this here."

Speaker 1:40:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:37 It's... Um, but I've, I've been to high school football games, and it's the same thing, like packed stadiums for high school football games, and you're like, "This is nuts, man. These people love their sports."

Speaker 1:40:45 We're like that for hockey in Canada.

Joe Rogan 1:40:47 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:40:47 It is serious, serious. Like, parents are very fixated. And I think, I think it's actually a good thing. Some people say, "Oh, it's terrible." I think it's great to have parents that are competitive, 'cause they're pushing their kids to be better and more excellent, and even if they don't end up as NHL hockey players, it gives them that conspe- con- competitive ed, and I want us to be a more competitive society. Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:41:06 Well, when I was a kid, I, I worked at the Boston Athletic Club, um, and, uh, one of the people that I... Uh, I was a fitness instructor when I was 19, and one of the people that I worked with was Bobby Orr.

Speaker 1:41:18 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 1:41:19 Yeah, Bobby Orr used to come there and train, and we used to have-

Speaker 1:41:20 Wow

Joe Rogan 1:41:20 ... to help him get on the Versa Climber machine, because his body was so wrecked.

Speaker 1:41:25 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:41:25 He had so many surgeries. His knees were so destroyed. He had scars-

Speaker 1:41:31 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:41:31 ... all up and down his k- 'cause he, he had knee surgery back when they were just experimenting.

Speaker 1:41:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:41:36 You know, they didn't really know how to fix knees. They just cut you open, screwed things back together again, and then it would blow apart again, and then you'd wind up having another surgery. So he had many, many knee surgeries, and he could barely walk.

Speaker 1:41:49 But he was still doing some kind of physical activity?

Joe Rogan 1:41:51 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:41:51 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:41:51 He was playing racquetball. He was-

Speaker 1:41:53 How old was he at the time?

Joe Rogan 1:41:54 Oh, this was 1986, so I mean-

Speaker 1:42:01 Geez, that's like, what, 40 years ago now.

Joe Rogan 1:42:03 Uh-huh. Yeah. So he was, you know, he was probably in his 50s, 40s or 50s.

Speaker 1:42:10 No, he's a legend.

Joe Rogan 1:42:11 He was, but he's, he could barely walk. I mean, he, his knees didn't straighten out.

Speaker 1:42:15 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:42:15 They w- they were always, like, slightly bent, and they only bent that much. His range of motion was very small. So you had to help him, uh, get on machines. But the nicest guy.

Speaker 1:42:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:42:25 Like, a legend. Like, you couldn't believe he was really there. Like, he-

Speaker 1:42:28 Right

Joe Rogan 1:42:28 ... he would walk into the, the gym, and you're like, "Oh, my God, this is really..." Yeah, 'cause I was 19. I'd never met a famous person, and I was like, "That's Bobby Orr?"

Speaker 1:42:35 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:42:36 "This is nuts." But it also made me realize, like, boy, knee surgery's no joke. Like, this guy was, like, an incredible athlete, and now he can't even straighten his leg out.

Speaker 1:42:46 Yeah, it's all temporary. You gotta take care of yourself.

Joe Rogan 1:42:48 Yes.

Speaker 1:42:49 Do you, do you have, uh, like, uh, residual injuries from fighting back in, in the day?

Joe Rogan 1:42:55 Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've had three knee surgeries, two reconstructions, two ACL-

Speaker 1:42:58 Was that from taekwondo?

Joe Rogan 1:42:59 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Speaker 1:43:00 And-

Joe Rogan 1:43:00 And jujitsu. One of m- one of my ACL injuries was from, uh, jujitsu.

Speaker 1:43:04 And what, uh, like, what injuries are the most common in jujitsu, jujitsu?

Joe Rogan 1:43:08 Knees, backs, necks, shoulders.

Speaker 1:43:12 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:43:12 Those are the big ones. Elbows.

Speaker 1:43:13 Is that because of the-

Joe Rogan 1:43:14 Yeah

Speaker 1:43:14 ... the, the arm bars and all that stuff?

Joe Rogan 1:43:16 Uh-huh. Yeah. Not tapping.

Speaker 1:43:18 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:43:18 That's a big one. Lot of, a lot of guys get hurt just because of their ego, 'cause they don't wanna tap.

Speaker 1:43:22 And you don't, you don't s- strike me as the type of guy who taps very quickly.

Joe Rogan 1:43:25 Well, when I was younger, I was really stupid, and I, I wasn't into tapping.

Speaker 1:43:29 Right. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:43:30 [laughs] But, uh, as I got older, I got a lot smart... Uh, fortunately, I got a lot better, so I wasn't, like, in a situation where I had to tap a lot.

Speaker 1:43:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:43:38 But if I did, I did. I just tapped, and that's the smart thing to do. And I, I would tell people, "Treat it like s- you're playing basketball. Don't treat it like it's your life or death."

Speaker 1:43:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:43:47 The game is life or death. The game is if a guy gets you in an arm bar, he's essentially breaking your arm. If he breaks your arm, he can kill you, right?

Speaker 1:43:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:43:54 That's the game.But don't treat it like that.

Speaker 1:43:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:43:57 Treat it like you can tap and keep going.

Speaker 1:44:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:44:00 Or you can not tap and your arm's gonna be destroyed maybe for the rest of your life.

Speaker 1:44:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:44:05 And I've seen that happen with people, where their, their forearm snaps and they have to have plates in it, and then it's a chronic injury for the rest of their life.

Speaker 1:44:12 Right. Yeah, no, I can imagine that. And what about in, in TaeKwonDo? Like, y- you m- you told the story once about how you really clocked a guy, I think it was a wheel kick or something.

Joe Rogan 1:44:21 Yeah.

Speaker 1:44:21 And that, like, freaked you out and you couldn't-

Joe Rogan 1:44:22 That changed my whole outlook on fighting, because I realized that could happen to me. And I, I had knocked people out before, but I'd never knocked anybody out where they didn't get up. Like, usually they'd get up and they're wobbly and, you know, they'd get sat down and the, you know, medics take care of them and, you know, after a while they're walking around. And this guy never got up. And I never really got over that. I never had the same, um, lust for hurting people, 'cause it was just... I was young, you know? I was 19, and when you're 19 you think you're invincible. Or you don't w- you don't think about the conseque- I knew I could get hurt. I'd been hurt before. I'd been kicked really hard and punched really hard before. I knew I was vulnerable, but I didn't think it would, gonna be anything permanent.

Speaker 1:45:08 Did the guy ever get out of the hospital?

Joe Rogan 1:45:10 I don't know.

Speaker 1:45:10 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:45:11 I don't know what happened to him.

Speaker 1:45:12 Well, maybe-

Joe Rogan 1:45:13 I don't know what happened to him

Speaker 1:45:14 ... maybe he'll hear this show and give you a call and say that he's all right.

Joe Rogan 1:45:16 Oh, no, no, he probably don't wanna talk to me.

Speaker 1:45:18 [laughs] Well, your sp- your spinning back kick is incredible. I saw you and GSP doing that, uh, video where you were showing him how to do the back kick.

Joe Rogan 1:45:26 Yeah.

Speaker 1:45:26 Did he ever use that in a fight?

Joe Rogan 1:45:28 Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. Yeah.

Speaker 1:45:29 He landed it?

Joe Rogan 1:45:30 Yeah, he used it a lot.

Speaker 1:45:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:31 It's a thing that, like, it, y- you have to almost grow up doing it.

Speaker 1:45:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:45:37 You know? Unless you're De- like, Jon Jones developed it later in his career, but he's-

Speaker 1:45:41 I saw that. He, he's-

Joe Rogan 1:45:42 He's a wizard

Speaker 1:45:42 ... but he kinda, like, started implementing it, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:45:45 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:45:45 ... like, like, sorta three, two-thirds through, through his career. Did you teach him how to do that?

Joe Rogan 1:45:48 No. No, I did not.

Speaker 1:45:49 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:45:49 He worked with a TaeKwonDo coach in Albuquerque.

Speaker 1:45:51 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:45:52 And, uh, he just really worked on that one technique, specifically when he went up to heavyweight, 'cause the guys would be, first of all, less agile and mobile, and also it was the kinda technique where you could stop a guy with one shot.

Speaker 1:46:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:46:03 And when your guy's smaller than most heavyweights, which Jon is, 'cause he was a light heavyweight, so he was fighting at 205 most of his career, and just as a challenge decided to go up to heavyweight. But he's so intelligent, he realized, like, "I need a one-shot that I could put people away." So he spent hours and hours every week just going over the spinning back kick.

Speaker 1:46:24 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:46:24 Yeah.

Speaker 1:46:24 To the body or the head?

Joe Rogan 1:46:25 Yeah, the body.

Speaker 1:46:26 The body.

Joe Rogan 1:46:26 Yeah.

Speaker 1:46:27 And it was-

Joe Rogan 1:46:27 It's like getting hit by a car.

Speaker 1:46:28 Right. There's so much power in that.

Joe Rogan 1:46:29 You, you get hit with that. Sp- like, a wheel kick to the head is really difficult to develop. That's, it's like a fast twitch thing that, it's almost like your body has to evolve and grow doing that to really develop the kinda speed that you could pull it off on a skilled opponent in a fight.

Speaker 1:46:47 And the accuracy.

Joe Rogan 1:46:48 Yeah.

Speaker 1:46:48 And, like, to try and time that all, that must be incredible.

Joe Rogan 1:46:50 I mean, there's, th- there's just freak athletes that could pick it up later in life. There's some people that are just really good at everything. They just have amazing dexterity and coordination and... But for most people, you, I, like, I learned it when I was a kid, so, like, my body matured doing those things.

Speaker 1:47:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:47:07 My body matured kicking, and it became a part of, like, just my average, like, normal movement of life.

Speaker 1:47:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:47:14 You know?

Speaker 1:47:14 That's amazing. Yeah. And, uh, the, the spinning back kick, though, uh, is it typically a body kick-

Joe Rogan 1:47:20 Yes

Speaker 1:47:20 ... you throw with that?

Joe Rogan 1:47:21 When you throw... I've thrown it to the face, too, especially a jump spinning back kick to the face.

Speaker 1:47:25 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:47:25 But, um, the, the, the-

Speaker 1:47:26 TaeKwonDo, wasn't it really, uh, the Koreans that developed so they could actually kick a man off a horse in war?

Joe Rogan 1:47:32 Hmm.

Speaker 1:47:32 Is that why the kicks are so high?

Joe Rogan 1:47:34 I don't think so.

Speaker 1:47:35 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:47:35 I think it was just 'cause they were, they're smaller in stature, and they realized that you had to have more powerful kicks.

Speaker 1:47:41 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:47:41 You know? Like, 'cause your legs are always carrying your body around. There's a lot more mass to your muscles in your legs, and there's a lot more force you can generate with your kicks.

Speaker 1:47:49 Did you ever see the fight between Rick Rufus and that Muay Thai guy?

Joe Rogan 1:47:54 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:47:55 Wasn't that incredible?

Joe Rogan 1:47:56 Yeah. That changed kickboxing. We've, we've showed that fight 100 times on this podcast.

Speaker 1:48:01 Right. It's amazing because it was, like, Americans versus Thai, and, and Rufus-

Joe Rogan 1:48:05 Well, we didn't really understand leg kicks.

Speaker 1:48:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:48:07 Because PKA karate, and I found this out later because of Benny Urquidez, who came on the podcast, he told me that the reason why they didn't allow leg kicks in PKA karate was 'cause of Bill Wallace. So Bill "Superfoot" Wallace famously had one leg that he'd kick with. It was 'cause his other leg, he had a bad knee.

Speaker 1:48:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:48:26 And he didn't want anybody kicking his legs.

Speaker 1:48:28 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 1:48:29 So he promoted this idea that only have above-the-waist kicks.

Speaker 1:48:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:48:34 And that's what we had in America. Like, that's what Johnny Evtacheia fought most of his career.

Speaker 1:48:37 That's right. He did.

Joe Rogan 1:48:38 Yeah.

Speaker 1:48:38 He fought Rufus himself, actually.

Joe Rogan 1:48:39 Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1:48:40 Yeah. Yeah, no, that, that, that was incredible, because if you looked at the, the art form, Rufus was so much more beautiful to watch-

Joe Rogan 1:48:48 Oh, yeah

Speaker 1:48:48 ... than the Thai guy. He came in, he sp- he broke the guy's jaw in the first round, I think.

Joe Rogan 1:48:52 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:48:53 Hey, you know, he hurt him.

Joe Rogan 1:48:54 He hurt him. He rocked him down.

Speaker 1:48:54 He knocked him down a few times.

Joe Rogan 1:48:55 Yeah.

Speaker 1:48:55 Was it once or twice the-

Joe Rogan 1:48:56 He knocked him down a couple times, I believe. But it was, Rufus was amazing.

Speaker 1:48:59 And the guy just kept chopping his leg.

Joe Rogan 1:49:01 Yep.

Speaker 1:49:01 And, and then I think he w- he went out in a, in a stretcher.

Joe Rogan 1:49:03 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:49:03 'Cause his leg was busted in, like, nine places or something.

Joe Rogan 1:49:05 He didn't know what to do. He didn't understand it. What was really interesting is his brother, Duke, became a Muay Thai world, world champion after that fight.

Speaker 1:49:12 Okay. Was that the d- was that the, the guy who was at the fight commenting after the fight was done?

Joe Rogan 1:49:16 Yes.

Speaker 1:49:17 Yes, I remember that.

Joe Rogan 1:49:17 Where he was saying that it doesn't take any skill.

Speaker 1:49:18 There's no skill. Yes, I remember that. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:49:20 Well, he w- he was embarrassed by that later in his life, because he became one of the top MMA trainers.

Speaker 1:49:25 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:49:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:49:25 And he, and he, he took on Muay Thai.

Joe Rogan 1:49:27 Yes.

Speaker 1:49:27 That's fascinating.

Joe Rogan 1:49:27 Well, he became a Muay Thai world champion, and he developed Rufusport, which is a great gym in Milwaukee.

Speaker 1:49:32 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 1:49:32 A top gym. Developed world champions like Anthony Pettis.So he was, uh, you know, he was a pioneer. It was one of the guys that had to figure it out, and, you know, he spent time in Thailand. They all, they all learned it. They had to learn because it was just-

Speaker 1:49:45 And where's the best place in Thailand to go? Is it Phuket? Is it Bangkok? Like where do you go?

Joe Rogan 1:49:49 Oh, there's so many good places. Thailand's the real motherland of Muay Thai, obviously.

Speaker 1:49:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:49:53 And so like, you know, um, Phuket's amazing. The, Bangkok's amazing. I mean, there's so many amazing gyms that are in, uh, in Thailand. I mean-

Speaker 1:50:03 They're tough c- there's whole strips in Phuket. My wife and I were there-

Joe Rogan 1:50:06 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:50:06 ... on vacation once, and we just stumbled on this whole street, and, uh, you could do... There was sort of American style boxing. There was, there was a CrossFit type thing. Then there was that Tiger Muay Thai and a bunch of other Muay Thai facilities.

Joe Rogan 1:50:19 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:50:19 And then there's, there's like street vendors that would, were, were cooking meals specifically for people who were there training. Um, like you could buy like a beautiful, you know, hard-boiled eggs and, and avocado and, uh, chicken strips and this is like high protein just catered to the people who come from around the world to train for like five, six weeks in a, in a clinic.

Joe Rogan 1:50:40 And there's people that do it just recreationally. My friend Mark, he's a, he's a businessman. He's in his 60s.

Speaker 1:50:46 And he did it?

Joe Rogan 1:50:46 He went over to Thailand to train.

Speaker 1:50:47 Did he survive?

Joe Rogan 1:50:48 Yeah.

Speaker 1:50:49 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:50:49 He trained. He spars all the time. I, I saw him the other day. He had a black eye. He's in his 60s. I'm like, "What are you doing, man?" [laughs]

Speaker 1:50:54 So if you were starting from scratch, you, and you wanted to be a MMA, would you do like, you go to, uh, Thailand and do a, do like a m- two months there and then go to Dagestan to learn how to wrestle? Is that, would that be the best combo?

Joe Rogan 1:51:07 If you were starting out, if you're a kid, I would say wrestling. Wrestling's number one.

Speaker 1:51:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:11 That's the most important thing to learn because if a guy can take you down, he can do whatever he wants to. If he can h-

Speaker 1:51:16 Right

Joe Rogan 1:51:16 ... take you down or hold you down and beat you up, if you don't know how to wrestle, you can't fight.

Speaker 1:51:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:51:22 You, you need at least to learn wrestling just to understand wrestling takedown defense.

Speaker 1:51:26 But you did-

Joe Rogan 1:51:27 That's the foundation

Speaker 1:51:27 ... jujitsu later in life, didn't you?

Joe Rogan 1:51:29 Yes.

Speaker 1:51:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:51:29 I didn't start jujitsu till I was 29, I think.

Speaker 1:51:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:51:33 Yeah.

Speaker 1:51:34 And who, who do you like right now? Who do you think is the most interesting fighter to watch these days?

Joe Rogan 1:51:38 Oh, there's so many. It's impossible to say the most interesting. There's a guy, uh, from Spain, Ilia Topuria.

Speaker 1:51:43 Topuria.

Joe Rogan 1:51:44 Yeah. He's-

Speaker 1:51:44 Yeah, I really like Topuria.

Joe Rogan 1:51:46 He's what David Goggins calls uncommon amongst uncommon men.

Speaker 1:51:52 You want some more coffee in here?

Joe Rogan 1:51:53 No, thank you. I'm good. Thank you. He's a freak. I mean, he's just incredibly talented.

Speaker 1:51:59 He is.

Joe Rogan 1:51:59 Like weird, weirdly talented. Like his last three fights, he knocked out three all-time greats.

Speaker 1:52:04 Uh, Holloway.

Joe Rogan 1:52:05 Yeah. Holloway, Alexander, um, um, uh, and, um, uh, Charles Oliveira.

Speaker 1:52:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:52:15 So that, that's crazy. Volkanovski, who's like one of the greatest featherweights of all time, knocked him out, knocked out Max Holloway, another one of the greatest featherweights of all time.

Speaker 1:52:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:52:25 And then Charles Oliveira, one of the greatest lightweights of all time.

Speaker 1:52:27 Insane.

Joe Rogan 1:52:27 He knocks out three guys in three fights.

Speaker 1:52:29 And but he-

Joe Rogan 1:52:29 There's no one has a resume like that.

Speaker 1:52:31 And he's not like... A- as I understand, he was a Greco-Roman guy f-

Joe Rogan 1:52:34 Right, initially

Speaker 1:52:35 ... and he became a boxer-

Joe Rogan 1:52:36 Yeah

Speaker 1:52:36 ... later on.

Joe Rogan 1:52:37 He's just talented.

Speaker 1:52:38 How do you describe, how do you describe, like, uh, so I, I'm not, I'm not knowledgeable in this area, but i- i- the way he, he almost looks like he has a Philly shell.

Joe Rogan 1:52:48 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:52:48 Is that a Philly shell, what he does with one arm down?

Joe Rogan 1:52:50 It's a little bit of that. Well, he has amazing defense. It's just amazing awareness, and he, uh, pattern recognition, technique. It's, he's like, he's a combination of all things, right? Incredible confidence, incredible intelligence, insane discipline, work ethic, but just, uh, great training methods. Like he does everything right, and then insane confidence. Like his confidence is insane. He, when he fought Charles Oliveira for the lightweight title, he celebrated his victory the night before. He had a party to celebrate-

Speaker 1:53:24 Wow

Joe Rogan 1:53:24 ... the night before the fight, and then went out and knocked Charles out in the first round, and said he-

Speaker 1:53:28 Wow

Joe Rogan 1:53:28 ... was gonna knock Charles out in the first round.

Speaker 1:53:30 That's incredible.

Joe Rogan 1:53:31 One punch, boom. You know what he's, you know-

Speaker 1:53:33 But you know what im- impresses me most about him is how he got up after that kick to the head he took.

Joe Rogan 1:53:36 I know.

Speaker 1:53:37 That was incredible.

Joe Rogan 1:53:38 Jai Herbert. Yeah.

Speaker 1:53:38 And you know who else did that was GSP.

Joe Rogan 1:53:40 Uh-huh.

Speaker 1:53:40 Remember when GSP took that, that head kick?

Joe Rogan 1:53:42 Carlos Condit. Yeah.

Speaker 1:53:42 And he went down, but he recovered quickly.

Joe Rogan 1:53:45 Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 1:53:45 And he, he was talking to me about how... 'Cause I said to him, "Like in politics, you get hit, you get hit, right?" And not li- not physically [laughs] if you're lucky, but, but you have to be able to get up quickly and react to it. I asked him, "How did you do it? How did you, like how does your brain go from taking that kind of hit to getting back in the fight and turning it around?" And he said he like, it's t- two very deep breaths through the nose and then out through the mouth and get some oxygen back into your system and focus your mind. I thought that was an incredible lesson.

Joe Rogan 1:54:13 Well, I mean, it's all in how you get kicked, 'cause you could just get knocked out.

Speaker 1:54:19 And then it's over.

Joe Rogan 1:54:19 There's nothing you can do. If you get shut off, you get shut off.

Speaker 1:54:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:54:22 And certain people get shut off. It just, you just get kicked the... You can get kicked and it kind of glances off of you, or you can get kicked and it just slams right into the side of your neck and it, the lights go dark.

Speaker 1:54:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:54:34 You know?

Speaker 1:54:34 But if you're, if you're still able to, to recover and, and think quickly, it's incredible to have that kind of pre-programming to ready you-

Joe Rogan 1:54:43 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:54:43 ... for a moment like that.

Joe Rogan 1:54:44 Well, I mean, that's a big part of his, uh, the, what I was talking about, the, the camp that he comes from. I mean, Firas Zahabi is like one of the most intelligent and one of the most brilliant trainers in the sport.

Speaker 1:54:56 Who's this?

Joe Rogan 1:54:56 Firas Zahabi.

Speaker 1:54:57 Uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 1:54:57 He's the guy from Montreal.

Speaker 1:54:58 Oh, that's-

Joe Rogan 1:54:58 The Tristar.

Speaker 1:54:59 So he's the guy who trains just-

Joe Rogan 1:55:00 Yes

Speaker 1:55:00 ... uh-

Joe Rogan 1:55:01 Trains GSP.

Speaker 1:55:02 Oh, GSP. Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:55:03 Yes.

Speaker 1:55:03 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:55:04 And I mean, I think that is, that's a big part of why GSP was able to recover. Like they prepare for everything.

Speaker 1:55:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:55:11 You know, it's like there's nothing left to chance. Like he, he hires people to try to knock George out in training. That was one of the things he did. He would give them more money if they could knock him out. So they would just... So he would be like fully prepared-

Speaker 1:55:24 Right [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:55:24 ... when he was fighting. Like they leave no stone uncovered.

Speaker 1:55:28 Don't you have to like budget though the number of head shots you take?

Joe Rogan 1:55:30 Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1:55:31 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:55:31 But he was pretty confident that George... I mean, it wasn't like he was doing this with a beginner.

Speaker 1:55:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:55:35 He was doing this with a world champion, one of the greatest of all time.

Speaker 1:55:39 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:55:39 And he, he, you know, he wanted George to be in danger.You know, so George had to fight like he was gonna fight inside the octagon-

Speaker 1:55:46 Right

Joe Rogan 1:55:46 ... in danger.

Speaker 1:55:47 'Cause Jon Jones said somewhere that he had, like every time he gets hit hard in, in camp, he s- he said, like, "I just, that, that's part of my brain budget that's-

Joe Rogan 1:55:57 Yes

Speaker 1:55:57 ... that's been taken away." 'Cause-

Joe Rogan 1:55:58 Well, that's why Jon's so smart.

Speaker 1:56:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56:01 He, he, he recognized that. There's a lot of people that don't think that way. Jon also famously won't take a fight on short notice.

Speaker 1:56:07 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 1:56:07 He wants to be fully prepared for a fighter. Even a guy, like when he fought Chael Sonnen, um, they offered him a Chael Sonnen fight on short notice and he said no. Like, there is not a time, uh, no disrespect to Chael, he's a great fighter.

Speaker 1:56:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:56:20 No, there's not a time on this life, in this earth, where Chael Sonnen is gonna beat Jon Jones. It's just not gonna happen. He could have taken that fight on one day's notice and still beat Chael Sonnen. He's that much better than him. But he still wouldn't take it. He's like, "No, I wanna be fully, 100% prepared."

Speaker 1:56:36 That's smart, though.

Joe Rogan 1:56:37 Yeah.

Speaker 1:56:37 That can be.

Joe Rogan 1:56:37 Also, he hated Chael.

Speaker 1:56:39 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:56:39 And so he wanted to make sure that there was not a chance that Chael could do anything to him that he would've been able to, wouldn't have been able to do if he was trained.

Speaker 1:56:46 Do these guys hate each other?

Joe Rogan 1:56:47 Sometimes.

Speaker 1:56:49 Is it-

Joe Rogan 1:56:49 Yeah

Speaker 1:56:49 ... but most of them, do they respect, or is it, it depends on the fight?

Joe Rogan 1:56:52 It really depend. Like, when Ilia Topuria fought, um-

Speaker 1:56:55 Holly

Joe Rogan 1:56:55 ... Charles Oliveira-

Speaker 1:56:56 Oh, right

Joe Rogan 1:56:56 ... he actually apologized to him before the fight and said, "I'm sorry it has to be you. I really like you." [laughs] Kinda crazy.

Speaker 1:57:06 He's gotta be careful though.

Joe Rogan 1:57:07 But, but-

Speaker 1:57:07 Pride precedes the fall

Joe Rogan 1:57:08 ... he's hated people, too. He's hated people he fought, too. I mean, there's some people that just rub you the wrong way. There's some people, their strategy is to get inside your head and fuck with you and, and for you to fight with emotion.

Speaker 1:57:17 Well, he-

Joe Rogan 1:57:17 Get you to be angry

Speaker 1:57:17 ... Khabib with, um-

Joe Rogan 1:57:19 Conor McGregor

Speaker 1:57:19 ... with McGregor, he-

Joe Rogan 1:57:20 Oh, he hated him

Speaker 1:57:20 ... really hated McGregor.

Joe Rogan 1:57:22 He hated him.

Speaker 1:57:22 He was gonna, almost didn't let go when the tap happened.

Joe Rogan 1:57:24 Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:57:25 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:57:25 Yeah.

Speaker 1:57:25 That was, that was something else. Is Conor ever gonna come back, do you think?

Joe Rogan 1:57:29 Only Conor knows. I mean, if he's going to, he has to do it soon. I mean, I think he's 30, how old is he now, 37?

Speaker 1:57:38 He, he's jacked now, eh?

Joe Rogan 1:57:40 Yeah.

Speaker 1:57:40 He's put on some meat.

Joe Rogan 1:57:40 Well, not anymore.

Speaker 1:57:41 Oh, he came back down?

Joe Rogan 1:57:42 He was, uh, on the Mexican supplements for a while.

Speaker 1:57:45 Okay. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:57:45 Because he was trying to, uh, recover from his, uh, leg break.

Speaker 1:57:50 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:57:50 So when he fought Dustin Poirier.

Speaker 1:57:52 I remember that.

Joe Rogan 1:57:53 He got on some stuff to try to recover for that. I don't know what he got on, but clearly it helped. He got huge. He got super jacked. The problem with getting super jacked like that is then you get addicted to what got you super jacked. 'Cause y- if you're on steroids, you feel like Superman. You know, you, you feel like you could just run through walls.

Speaker 1:58:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:58:09 And then you get off of it, and now your endocrine system has to kinda catch up to the fact that you've been giving it exogenous testo- testosterone for all these months. And so then it takes a long time for you to get back to a normal, healthy level, so you feel like shit. It's hard for these guys to get off of steroids.

Speaker 1:58:27 Right, I can imagine. You get addicted to being-

Joe Rogan 1:58:29 Yeah

Speaker 1:58:29 ... that strong. I, I've never done it. I don't plan on it. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:58:32 How old is he? 37. He turns 37- 37 ... in July. Almost 38.

Speaker 1:58:35 That's, that's getting up there.

Joe Rogan 1:58:36 Yeah.

Speaker 1:58:36 Who's the oldest fighter that's ever been in the octagon? Uh, like, who's a serious competitor?

Joe Rogan 1:58:41 Probably Randy Couture. I think Randy won the world title, the world heavyweight title in his 40s.

Speaker 1:58:47 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:58:48 Yeah. But Randy didn't even start his mis- mixed martial arts career, I think, I think, I was there at his first fight in 1997, and I think he was 34 or 35 before-

Speaker 1:59:03 Right

Joe Rogan 1:59:03 ... he ever had, uh, an MMA fight. He was just an elite wrestler who, you know, made his way into MMA because, you know, there's no real professional outlet for actual amateur wrestling.

Speaker 1:59:15 Did you ever interact with the Gracies? 'Cause I remember-

Joe Rogan 1:59:17 Oh, sure. Yeah

Speaker 1:59:17 ... way back in, like, I remember MMA or, um, UFC 2. It was the second one. Remember, that was when it really kicked in.

Joe Rogan 1:59:22 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:59:22 'Cause the first one was a little bit strange. It was that big, fat guy whose tooth went flying out.

Joe Rogan 1:59:26 Yeah.

Speaker 1:59:27 Remember that? But number two was the one with Shamrock-

Joe Rogan 1:59:29 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:59:30 ... and, uh, Gracie, and, uh, D- Dan Severn. Was he in number two, Dan Severn, the wrestler?

Joe Rogan 1:59:35 I think he was later.

Speaker 1:59:36 He might've been three or four.

Joe Rogan 1:59:38 Yeah.

Speaker 1:59:38 But that was kinda the first generation-

Joe Rogan 1:59:40 Uh-huh

Speaker 1:59:41 ... of big names.

Joe Rogan 1:59:42 Oh, Royce Gracie changed the world.

Speaker 1:59:43 Yeah, with his, he, he was a slow style though, man.

Joe Rogan 1:59:46 Uh-huh.

Speaker 1:59:46 Like, you had to have patience to watch him because he'd s- he'd just lie on his back and wait, wait, wait, and then choke you.

Joe Rogan 1:59:51 Well, with Dan Severn he did, because he, he had to catch him in a triangle.

Speaker 1:59:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:59:55 And he eventually tapped him, and no one even understand what was going on. They're like, "Why is he, he's got his legs wrapped around him? What the hell is going on?"

Speaker 2:00:01 Exactly. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:00:01 And then all of a sudden, Dan Severn's tapping out. You're like, "This is crazy." So a, a man who weighed literally 100 pounds more than him, or close to it-

Speaker 2:00:09 Right

Joe Rogan 2:00:10 ... uh, on top of him, and Royce beat him.

Speaker 2:00:11 Well, Dan, Dan Severn didn't appear to have any finishing moves. Like, he, he's thinking, "I got you on your back. I've pinned you."

Joe Rogan 2:00:16 Right.

Speaker 2:00:16 "I've won the wrestling match." Like, the-

Joe Rogan 2:00:18 He would kinda give you little noogies-

Speaker 2:00:19 Right

Joe Rogan 2:00:20 ... and knuckle sandwiches.

Speaker 2:00:20 But, but then of course, uh, eventually that anaconda comes in and either chokes you out or takes your arm.

Joe Rogan 2:00:26 Well, no one-

Speaker 2:00:26 But-

Joe Rogan 2:00:26 ... understood jujitsu until Royce came around, you know, other than the Brazilians.

Speaker 2:00:29 And it was his dad, wasn't it, his dad that introduced it to the family, the old man?

Joe Rogan 2:00:32 His dad and his, uh, uncle. So it was, uh, it was Carlos Gracie and Helio Gracie who are the real founders of Brazilian jujitsu, and then Carlson Gracie.

Speaker 2:00:42 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:00:43 And those guys were the pioneers, and they were having no-rules fights in the 1930s and '40s.

Speaker 2:00:48 Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:00:49 Yeah.

Speaker 2:00:50 And did they bring it over from Japan?

Joe Rogan 2:00:52 Um, Maeda brought it over from Japan, and they taught the Gracies. And then, um, you know, Helio Gracie famously had a match with Kimura, who was a, a Japanese judoka who broke Helio's arm with a kimura, and that's how that, that technique, that's why it's called a kimura.

Speaker 2:01:12 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:01:12 Uh, yeah. In catch wrestling they call it a double wrist lock.

Speaker 2:01:16 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:01:16 But w- we call it a kimura because Kimura broke Helio Gracie's arm with this.

Speaker 2:01:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:01:22 Helio just refused to tap, and it's like, "Ah"And, and eventually it snapped his arm.

Speaker 2:01:27 Wow, that's incredible.

Joe Rogan 2:01:28 They were having these long no-rules fights in Brazil long before anybody had any idea what MMA was in America. And then Royce's brother, Rickson, who was the best out of all of them, Rickson was fighting people when he was 18 in, like, these big s- arenas-

Speaker 2:01:45 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:01:46 ... in, in Brazil. Yeah.

Speaker 2:01:47 Unbelievable. And then they, then w- I guess Dana White brought it in with U- UFC and then-

Joe Rogan 2:01:52 No, it wasn't Dana. It was, uh ... There, there was another organization before, uh, Zuffa owned the UFC, and this other organization, they started it with Rorion Gracie. So Rorion Gracie was the guy who founded the UFC.

Speaker 2:02:07 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:02:08 And then originally they were talking about putting, like, a moat around the cage and having crocodiles in it and shit.

Speaker 2:02:13 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:02:13 They wanted it to be, like, completely insane. Because what it was for Rorion, Rorion's a brilliant man, and what, what for him, what he wanted was to promote jujitsu. And he's like, "This is gonna be the best way to open up schools all over the country and to show this art that my father had created."

Speaker 2:02:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:02:30 So they had really taken some of the ground techniques of judo and really refined them-

Speaker 2:02:37 Right

Joe Rogan 2:02:37 ... to a razor-sharp edge. And, and also one of the things that helped a lot was that Hélio was a small man. He was only, like, 145 pounds. And so he had to use only technique and leverage. He couldn't rely on brute strength. And so-

Speaker 2:02:51 Fascinating

Joe Rogan 2:02:51 ... it was one of the best sort of advertisements, is to have Royce, who was also fairly small, he was only 175 pounds, beat all these big, giant, muscle-bound guys with pure technique.

Speaker 2:03:03 That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 2:03:03 'Cause they didn't understand what he was doing. And he was like, "This is gonna be brilliant. This is gonna..." And it worked. I mean, gr- the, the, the name Gracie and jujitsu-

Speaker 2:03:11 Absolutely

Joe Rogan 2:03:12 ... are synonymous.

Speaker 2:03:12 It's everywhere now. Like, we even have them in Canada where these, these schools will have the Gracie name, and obviously they have no attachment to Gracies, uh, your, the, uh, Brazilian Gracies, but everybody wants to learn the Gracie style.

Joe Rogan 2:03:23 Well, they probably do have a, a, like Gracie Barra, which is a, a huge, uh, affiliate of gyms. They're all over the country and the world.

Speaker 2:03:30 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:03:30 They're everywhere.

Speaker 2:03:31 Are they good?

Joe Rogan 2:03:32 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:03:32 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:03:33 Oh, yeah. Oh, there's, like, it's very difficult to have a bad jujitsu gym today.

Speaker 2:03:37 Why is that? Because they're so competitive?

Joe Rogan 2:03:39 It's too, it's too competitive.

Speaker 2:03:40 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:03:40 There's too many good people. There's too many good gyms. Like, in Austin alone, Austin alone has, like, 10 amazing jujitsu schools.

Speaker 2:03:47 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 2:03:48 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:03:48 Do you go, do you go and roll quite often still?

Joe Rogan 2:03:50 There's a place right up the street.

Speaker 2:03:51 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:03:51 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, which is the school that I started with-

Speaker 2:03:54 Okay

Joe Rogan 2:03:54 ... in California. Well, I started with the Macha- well, I actually started with Rickson Gra- well, I started, I started with Rickson Gracie, and then I went to Carlson Gracie, and then I w- uh, and that was just 'cause I didn't know there was any difference in the Gracies, and then Carlson Gracie was closer to my house. So I'm like, "Oh, I'll go to this Gracie place. It's closer."

Speaker 2:04:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:04:10 This is when I was a white belt. I didn't know anything. And then when they closed, when that gym closed, then I went to Renzo Gracie's. And so I started training there in 1998, and that was, um, that was in, uh, the Valley in California. Uh, but then, um, one of Renzo Gracie's black belts, my best friend, Eddie Bravo, he started 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, and then I, I trained there as well.

Speaker 2:04:32 Okay. And d- in, in Canada what, we see a lot of places where they do Muay Thai and jujitsu.

Joe Rogan 2:04:37 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:04:37 So you get your striking and your grappling all in one studio.

Joe Rogan 2:04:40 10th Planet here has a Muay Thai program too.

Speaker 2:04:42 Oh, is that right?

Joe Rogan 2:04:42 Yeah.

Speaker 2:04:42 So that's common now.

Joe Rogan 2:04:43 There's a lot of those, a lot of those gyms have that.

Speaker 2:04:44 And you went to your first, as a commentator, you did it, like, for free, didn't you? You know?

Joe Rogan 2:04:49 No. No. I, I got paid in the early days, in the '90s, in the, in 1997, but it wasn't much.

Speaker 2:04:55 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:04:55 I was losing money. But when the UFC was purchased by Zuffa in 2001, that was when I was on Fear Factor.

Speaker 2:05:02 Ah, right.

Joe Rogan 2:05:03 And I met Dana White, and I became friends with him, and he asked me as a favor to do commentary on this one show that they had, UFC 37 1/2. It was on Fox Sports whatever it was. The, the, it was a cable channel. So it was Best Damn Sports Show Period had this-

Speaker 2:05:21 Right

Joe Rogan 2:05:22 ... UFC show. And he said, "Would you do me a favor and just do commentary on this one event?"

Speaker 2:05:26 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:05:26 And I said, "Okay. I'll do it for this one." Then he's like, "I want you to do it again." And then I was like, "Okay."

Speaker 2:05:32 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:05:32 And so I, I, I was like, I just wanted to do it for fun.

Speaker 2:05:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:05:35 Like, for me, it's like, I like going to the fights, and I like going with my friends and having a good time, and I did, like, the first 15 of them for free. I just...

Speaker 2:05:44 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:05:44 They, I knew they were hemorrhaging money, and I didn't need any money.

Speaker 2:05:47 But you loved it.

Joe Rogan 2:05:47 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:05:47 You loved being there.

Joe Rogan 2:05:48 But I was-

Speaker 2:05:49 It was like a kid in a candy store

Joe Rogan 2:05:50 ... well, I also was very happy to try to promote this thing because for me, it was the ultimate expression of martial arts. Like, we need to find out what's the best style.

Speaker 2:05:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:06:00 And I'd kind of, I had been so engrossed in that world in Japan with Pride and all these other organizations that they had over there, and-

Speaker 2:06:08 It's like, what happens if an alligator fights with a tiger?

Joe Rogan 2:06:11 [laughs]

Speaker 2:06:11 What happens if a lion fights with a bear? We gotta match them up and find out.

Joe Rogan 2:06:15 Well, it's humans versus humans.

Speaker 2:06:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:06:17 So it's just style. It's like we needed to know.

Speaker 2:06:19 Muay Thai versus karate.

Joe Rogan 2:06:20 Because you didn't wanna waste your time doing something that didn't work.

Speaker 2:06:23 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:06:23 And there was a lot of people that wasted their time doing stuff that didn't work, and we didn't really know what that was until the UFC came along. And then we're like, "Oh." And now the evolution of martial arts from 1993, when the UFC started, to 2026, in those years, the, the, martial arts have evolved more than they have in the last 30,000 years.

Speaker 2:06:44 Right. Well, i- it's like the, the gap between theory and practice.

Joe Rogan 2:06:48 Yes.

Speaker 2:06:48 And, like, uh, Bruce Lee, when he, when, he, he started with Wing Chun, but he said that a lot of it was just orna- ornamental, and he called it dry land swimming.

Joe Rogan 2:06:59 Mm.

Speaker 2:06:59 'Cause, like, y- you know, you wouldn't actually do that in a fight. And then he got into a lot of, uh, contention with the s- the scholars of the art form. It's a very beautiful art form, Wing Chun, but I don't know if it ac- I can't imagine it works that well in an actual fight.

Joe Rogan 2:07:13 Well, it is, w- Wing Chun is effective. There's a lot of techniques in Wing Chun.

Speaker 2:07:16 If you, if you got into a fist fight between, like, a, a Muay Thai guy and a Wing Chun guy, who would come out on top?

Joe Rogan 2:07:21 The Muay Thai guy.

Speaker 2:07:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:22 But it doesn't mean that Wing Chun's not effective, and you could use Wing Chun in Muay Thai-

Speaker 2:07:27 Okay

Joe Rogan 2:07:27 ... or in an MMA fight. But you have to know everything.

Speaker 2:07:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:07:30 That's the reality of it. It's like TaeKwonDo.

Speaker 2:07:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:07:32 Like, TaeKwonDo's not effective by itself in an MMA fight, but if you know MMA and you know TaeKwonDo, then you could do like what Edson Barboza did to Terry Etim and knock him out with a wheel kick in spectacular fashion.

Speaker 2:07:45 Right. Right.

Joe Rogan 2:07:46 Like, it's learning all the techniques.

Speaker 2:07:47 Because Jones has, like, a big blend, right?

Joe Rogan 2:07:48 Yes.

Speaker 2:07:48 Like, he has some, some Muay Thai, some karate, some-

Joe Rogan 2:07:51 YesThat's what MMA is, mixed martial arts. I mean, it's like you take all... And that's Bruce Lee's philosophy, absorb what's useful.

Speaker 2:08:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:08:00 I mean, he was the real first mixed martial artist, and when it was very dangerous to do that.

Speaker 2:08:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:08:05 Because people hated him. I mean, they would attack him. He would have, he would have to have fights with people because they, they thought that he was disrespecting their art.

Speaker 2:08:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:08:13 You know? And he combined Western boxing and wrestling. He learned judo from Gene LeBell. He learned things from everybody.

Speaker 2:08:20 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 2:08:20 He learned karate, savate. He learned all these different martial arts and was absorbing what's useful and putting his own. So Jeet Kune Do, his style, was really the first mixed martial art sc- style.

Speaker 2:08:31 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 2:08:32 Yeah.

Speaker 2:08:32 Do people use it anymore?

Joe Rogan 2:08:34 Well, yeah, there's Jeet Kune Do schools, sure, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:08:37 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 2:08:37 I mean, I mean, a, a lot of what Krav Maga is, the Israeli martial art, is, like, kind of a, a combination of things along the same lines of the way Bruce Lee did it.

Speaker 2:08:47 Is it, is Krav Mag- Maga a good, effective martial arts system?

Joe Rogan 2:08:51 Every martial arts system is effective if you have a great instructor.

Speaker 2:08:55 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:08:56 Right? But on their own, like, the best styles are the really strong styles, like jujitsu, Muay Thai, wrestling. Those are the best sty- Western boxing. Those are the best styles on their own.

Speaker 2:09:09 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:09:09 But what Krav Maga is is a combination of all those styles. And so if you have a great instructor in Krav Maga, yeah, you'll, you'll learn great Muay Thai, you'll learn great jujitsu, you'll... It's essentially mixed martial arts, but with a lot of emphasis on real world application, street fights, you know, dirty stuff like eye gouging, you know, poking people in the eye, kicking them in the nuts.

Speaker 2:09:31 Yikes. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:09:32 Stuff that works. But that's what you... Like-

Speaker 2:09:34 Well, if you're in, you're in a fight

Joe Rogan 2:09:34 ... you see it in an MMA fight all the time. A guy gets poked in the eye, he's like, "Hey, hang on," and he has to stop.

Speaker 2:09:39 Isn't that against the rules?

Joe Rogan 2:09:40 Like, dude, this guy's getting punched and... It's against the rules. So this guy's getting punched and kicked and... Look, Tom Aspinall, he was in the heavyweight title fight, and he got eye-poked in the first round. He's had to have two surgeries since then-

Speaker 2:09:51 Right

Joe Rogan 2:09:51 ... on his eyes, and he hasn't been able to fight. They had to stop the fight in the first round from an eye poke.

Speaker 2:09:56 My God.

Joe Rogan 2:09:57 It's very effective. But in Krav Maga, they're like, "Go for the eye. Bang." Because in a real world fight-

Speaker 2:10:02 Well, if you're-

Joe Rogan 2:10:02 ... for your life scenario-

Speaker 2:10:03 Absolutely

Joe Rogan 2:10:03 ... it's a good technique

Speaker 2:10:03 ... if you're in a war, I mean, they, they, it's for the Israeli military, I think.

Joe Rogan 2:10:06 Exactly.

Speaker 2:10:07 So they have to prepare for, you know, unusual situations-

Joe Rogan 2:10:10 Yeah

Speaker 2:10:11 ... where, where you're trying to survive in a, in a, you know, a situation where your arm has been, your, your weapon has been removed and you're, and you're just trying to fight for your life.

Joe Rogan 2:10:19 Exactly. Well, just, and you're in a situation with hand, hand-to-hand combat. You need to learn how... You need to know every, you need... If a guy takes you down, you can't be lost. "Oh, we have to get back up so I can fight." No, you have to be able to fight on the ground, and that's the idea of it. Like, incorporate jujitsu, incorporate leg kicks, Muay Thai, Western boxing, even Jeet Kune Do techniques, even Wing Chun techniques.

Speaker 2:10:41 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:10:41 There's a lot of hand trapping and things in Wing Chun that can be very effective in a fight.

Speaker 2:10:45 It, it looks really cool what they do with that wooden, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:10:47 Mm-hmm

Speaker 2:10:47 ... that wooden, uh, dummy.

Joe Rogan 2:10:49 Uh-huh, yeah.

Speaker 2:10:50 Uh, I, it, it looks... Well, you just-

Joe Rogan 2:10:51 Where there's...

Speaker 2:10:52 Exactly. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:10:53 Yeah. I've never really got into that, but if you do get into that, you'll learn blocking techniques and you'll learn-

Speaker 2:10:57 That actually work.

Joe Rogan 2:10:58 Yeah, sure.

Speaker 2:10:59 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:11:00 But you, they'll work if you know the other stuff.

Speaker 2:11:03 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:11:03 They won't work if a guy just shoots a double on you and takes you down and starts pounding you. You don't know what to do when you're on the bottom.

Speaker 2:11:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:11:09 Like, you have to know how to f- And this is what really MMA has taught the world, is, like, you have to be able to defend yourself everywhere. Standing up, on the ground, you have to be effective in all the realms.

Speaker 2:11:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:11:22 But still we have a lot of people that are pure specialists that do really well in mixed martial arts because they're so good in one area. Like Alex Pereira, who was the middleweight champion, light heavyweight champion, and now he's going up to heavyweight, and he's gonna be fighting at the White House card. Alex Pereira is one of the greatest kickboxers of all time.

Speaker 2:11:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:11:41 He's a two-division world champion and kickboxer. But his style is all kickboxing, but he just developed takedown defense.

Speaker 2:11:48 He can do it all.

Joe Rogan 2:11:49 He can do it all.

Speaker 2:11:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:50 But he doesn't submit anybody. If you're fighting him, you're gonna get, you're gonna get s- It's gonna be a stand-up fight.

Speaker 2:11:55 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:11:55 Unless you can take him down, he's not gonna try to take you down.

Speaker 2:11:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:11:58 He's gonna try to fuck you up.

Speaker 2:11:59 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:11:59 He's gonna try to knock you into another dimension.

Speaker 2:12:02 Thanks for the warning. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:12:03 That's, that's-

Speaker 2:12:03 I'll try to avoid the guy if I see him on the street.

Joe Rogan 2:12:05 Yeah, he's terrifying.

Speaker 2:12:06 The funniest thing I ever saw was there's this video of, of Jon Jones on the street somewhere, and he, he, he bumped into s- He was talking, and he, he leaned on some guy's motorcycle. I think I, he, he might have been in, in Asia or something. The guy had no idea who he was, and he started screaming at him.

Joe Rogan 2:12:21 Oh, no.

Speaker 2:12:22 And Jon said, "I'm very, very sorry," and he turned around. He ran away like he was terrified.

Joe Rogan 2:12:27 Yeah.

Speaker 2:12:27 And it was, obviously he wasn't in any danger, but it was so hilarious that this guy had no idea who he was picking a fight with. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:12:33 That's hilarious.

Speaker 2:12:35 It was amazing. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:12:35 The guy has no idea. His life flashed before his eyes.

Speaker 2:12:38 But, but he, but he, he took it well, 'cause he was like, "You know, I don't have anything to prove."

Joe Rogan 2:12:41 Yeah.

Speaker 2:12:41 So.

Joe Rogan 2:12:41 Jon's not the type of guy that would do anything to... I mean, al- also, what a lawsuit, you know?

Speaker 2:12:46 Oh, yeah. [laughs] Your, your hands are weapons.

Joe Rogan 2:12:48 I mean, his whole body's a weapon.

Speaker 2:12:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:12:50 But y- most of those guys are really nice guys in real life.

Speaker 2:12:53 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 2:12:54 Yeah.

Speaker 2:12:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:12:54 Because they get all their aggression out. They don't have anything to prove. They're not the type of per- They, they know what they can do. They don't have to prove it to anybody. They know.

Speaker 2:13:02 Well, you should come to Winnipeg. They, they have a fight coming up. I think it's in, uh, I think it's in April. It's in April.

Joe Rogan 2:13:08 A UFC in, in Winnipeg?

Speaker 2:13:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:13:09 Yeah. I've avoided UFCs in Canada.

Speaker 2:13:11 Well, come on up.

Joe Rogan 2:13:12 Well, I, I've avoided it just because of the government.

Speaker 2:13:14 Well-

Joe Rogan 2:13:14 Just because of what was going on, as a protest. I was like, "This is so fucked."

Speaker 2:13:17 Well, we'll come back up and, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:13:18 Well, if you win, I'll go up there.

Speaker 2:13:19 Well, we, [laughs] we-

Joe Rogan 2:13:20 How about that?

Speaker 2:13:20 We should get you up before then. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:13:22 If you become prime minister, I promise I'll do all the UFC events that they have in Canada.

Speaker 2:13:26 We, we need you up in Canada to come, uh, come do one of your comedy shows, and, uh, it would be great for C- Canadian tourism.

Joe Rogan 2:13:31 I used to love going up there. I used to love going to Massey Hall.

Speaker 2:13:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:13:34 I, I used to-

Speaker 2:13:35 In Toronto?

Joe Rogan 2:13:35 Yeah.

Speaker 2:13:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:13:36 I, I loved performing there. I did, um-

Speaker 2:13:39 You used to do Montreal and-

Joe Rogan 2:13:40 Mm-hmm

Speaker 2:13:41 ... and, uh, how old were you when you were in Montreal?

Joe Rogan 2:13:43 Oh, I star- Uh, I think the first time I was up there, I was, like, 25.

Speaker 2:13:47 Such a beautiful city, eh?

Joe Rogan 2:13:48 Yeah, 26.

Speaker 2:13:49 It's gorgeous there.

Joe Rogan 2:13:50 Oh, I loved it up there.

Speaker 2:13:50 Yeah, Quebec is lovely.

Joe Rogan 2:13:51 It's amazing.

Speaker 2:13:52 It's a beautiful province.

Joe Rogan 2:13:53 Amazing food.

Speaker 2:13:54 Great people.

Joe Rogan 2:13:54 Shout out to Joe Beef, one of my favorite restaurants in the world. It's in Montreal.

Speaker 2:13:57 Okay. Yeah. They're, uh, Montreal's a great place, and you should come out to the prairies, too. Go to the Calgary Stampede.

Joe Rogan 2:14:04 I've heard that's awesome.

Speaker 2:14:05 Oh, it's amazing.

Joe Rogan 2:14:06 I've been to Edmonton.

Speaker 2:14:07 Great.

Joe Rogan 2:14:07 I've been to Alberta.

Speaker 2:14:08 Yeah. It's my home province.

Joe Rogan 2:14:09 Yeah, I performed in Edmonton a few times, and, um, I've, I've hunted in Alberta.

Speaker 2:14:13 Where?

Joe Rogan 2:14:14 Um, well, my friends John and Jen Rivett, they have a, they have a, uh, um, a, a guide. I mean, they, they guide people up in, uh, northern Alberta. It's all, like, uh, you know, black bear hunting.

Speaker 2:14:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:14:29 So it's like-

Speaker 2:14:30 There's a lot of great hunting. I'm not- I don't hunt myself, but there's a ton of great hunting, a lot of hunters in Alberta.

Joe Rogan 2:14:35 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:14:36 But, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:14:36 Well, there's talk about Alberta separating.

Speaker 2:14:38 That won't happen.

Joe Rogan 2:14:39 What was that about?

Speaker 2:14:40 Ah, it won't happen. Um, people, some people are frustrated, uh, but they, uh... You know, there's some legitimate frustrations, but at the end of the day, Canada's gonna be united. And Albertans, I'm born and raised Alberta, and Albertans are seriously patriotic Canadians.

Joe Rogan 2:14:56 Very patriotic.

Speaker 2:14:56 Yeah, they're great people, hardworking, um-

Joe Rogan 2:14:59 Some of the nicest people you'll ever come across

Speaker 2:15:00 ... they are great people in Alberta.

Joe Rogan 2:15:01 Hearty.

Speaker 2:15:03 They are a hearty people, and that's a-

Joe Rogan 2:15:04 It's cold up there.

Speaker 2:15:05 It is cold.

Joe Rogan 2:15:06 They know how to survive. [laughs]

Speaker 2:15:07 Exactly. You gotta be tough to survive the cold in Canada.

Joe Rogan 2:15:09 Yeah.

Speaker 2:15:09 Carve a country like we have out of that cold weather on that big open land. Um, but, uh, people just keep on going. And, uh, Alberta's got a real kind of rugged, uh, i- individualism.

Joe Rogan 2:15:21 Yes.

Speaker 2:15:21 And, uh, people, uh, people love their, their agriculture. There's great ranches in Alberta, beautiful grasslands in Saskatchewan, and-

Joe Rogan 2:15:29 Doesn't Brock Lesnar have a place up there?

Speaker 2:15:31 I di- I didn't know that. I-

Joe Rogan 2:15:32 I think Brock Lesnar-

Speaker 2:15:33 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:15:34 ... bought land in Alberta.

Speaker 2:15:35 Really?

Joe Rogan 2:15:35 Yeah, I think he owns a ranch up there.

Speaker 2:15:37 Actually, I had heard that from somebody.

Joe Rogan 2:15:39 Yeah.

Speaker 2:15:39 I've never seen him.

Joe Rogan 2:15:40 I think he, he fell in love with it. Well, he's a big hunter as well.

Speaker 2:15:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:15:42 I think he fell in love with it up there 'cause it's just, it's so magnificent. It's so gorgeous.

Speaker 2:15:46 It's a great country. It's a big country.

Joe Rogan 2:15:47 And the woods are so dense and beautiful, and you got wolves and bears and moose and everything up there. It's a amazing country.

Speaker 2:15:54 The, the Canadian Rockies are spectacular as well. They're, you know, a worldwide attraction. You know, you go to Lake Louise, it looks like a tropical lake 'cause it's all this runoff from the mountain melt, and, uh, you'd think you were in the tropics 'cause it's this, this turquoise green. That's where I grew up. I, I love c- I love Calgary. I love Southern Alberta. That's really my home. And so, uh, you gotta come to the Stampede, greatest outdoor show on Earth. A lot of Texans go up for the, the Stampede-

Joe Rogan 2:16:21 The Stampede?

Speaker 2:16:21 'Cause it's a rodeo.

Joe Rogan 2:16:22 Right.

Speaker 2:16:22 It's a huge rodeo.

Joe Rogan 2:16:23 Yeah.

Speaker 2:16:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:24 People don't think cowboy Canada. They don't think of that, but yeah.

Speaker 2:16:27 Calgary, uh, they, they've got some serious cowboys there.

Joe Rogan 2:16:29 Oh, yeah. No, they really do.

Speaker 2:16:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:31 Yeah. Look, I love Canada. I just, uh-

Speaker 2:16:32 If, if you did your comedy show in Calgary, you'd get a massive turnout.

Joe Rogan 2:16:36 Okay.

Speaker 2:16:37 It would be great. Think it over. I see when you-

Joe Rogan 2:16:39 Well, I was supposed to be up there before COVID. I was supposed to do a show up there, uh, for 4/20, for April 20th. I was gonna do it in Vancouver. I-

Speaker 2:16:47 That's another great city

Joe Rogan 2:16:48 ... every year I would do these, uh, 4/20 shows, like these... You know, 4/20 is the marijuana number. And Canada, now you guy- you guys have legal marijuana too.

Speaker 2:16:59 Been legal for 10 years, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:17:00 Which they should have in America. It's so ridiculous. They just, they just recently decided to make it Schedule 3.

Speaker 2:17:05 Is it why-

Joe Rogan 2:17:06 But why, why you have-

Speaker 2:17:06 Is it state by state?

Joe Rogan 2:17:07 Yes.

Speaker 2:17:08 Okay.

Joe Rogan 2:17:08 It's legal in a lot of states, but it's still not legal federally. It's goofy. If alcohol's legal, marijuana's far safer, it should be legal. It's ridiculous. It's also a personal freedom thing. Leave people alone. It's like n- no one's robbing banks smoking weed and fucking killing their neighbors. It's crazy. It's like-

Speaker 2:17:25 That's a personal, personal choice thing.

Joe Rogan 2:17:26 Yeah. It's, it's not, it's not heroin. It's not opiates. It's not... Like, maybe you shouldn't do it if you have mental health problems, right? But there's a lot of people that just, like, take a pot gummy and go to bed, and it makes them sleep better. Like, leave them alone. Like, leave people alone. Let, let people have a glass of whiskey. Let people have a glass of wine with dinner. Leave them alone.

Speaker 2:17:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:17:46 Like, stop-

Speaker 2:17:47 That's my-

Joe Rogan 2:17:47 ... coming up with laws where-

Speaker 2:17:49 That's my philosophy

Joe Rogan 2:17:49 ... you can impose your values and your morals and your judgments on other people. Let them have, make their own personal... Look, if you wanna eat a fucking cheeseburger-

Speaker 2:17:58 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:17:58 ... eat a cheeseburger. You know, if you wanna go and have five Big Macs, you should be able to. I don't think you should do it, but I don't think there should be a law stopping you. And I think that's, that should apply to a lot of things in life, and we'd be a lot better off.

Speaker 2:18:11 Well, the, the, the bottom line is this. If you cannot trust a man to govern himself, how can you trust him to govern for others? Like, if, if you think, if, if you think that human nature is so flawed that people cannot make decisions for themselves, then how could you possibly trust human nature to make decisions for other people, to impose decisions on their lives? Uh, and, uh, who watches the watchmen, you know?

Joe Rogan 2:18:34 Right.

Speaker 2:18:34 We're, we're constantly told we need to be-

Joe Rogan 2:18:36 Right

Speaker 2:18:36 ... we need to be kind of guided by these people from ivory towers. But who are these angels anyway?

Joe Rogan 2:18:40 Right.

Speaker 2:18:40 They're just human beings like everyone else. So when you give them more power and more, you give them the power to impose their will on, on people, then that ultimately gets abused.

Joe Rogan 2:18:49 Yes.

Speaker 2:18:49 So even, you're right, even when somebody is doing something that I don't agree with, and I would think it would be better for all of us if they didn't do it, the, the, the mal that is done by giving me the power to impose my decision-making on them is worse than the benefit of tr- trying to direct them towards a better decision.

Joe Rogan 2:19:05 Well said.

Speaker 2:19:06 That, that's my philosophy.

Joe Rogan 2:19:07 That's why I like you.

Speaker 2:19:08 Well, [laughs] that's where I come from.

Joe Rogan 2:19:10 You make a lot of sense.

Speaker 2:19:11 It's pretty simple. I think all the best things in life are simple, you know? We overcomplicate things. Government is, is way too complicated. You know, uh, I, I think we need to get back to the simplicity. The greatest speech in the English language was Abraham Lincoln's, uh, Gettysburg Address, 271 words. You know, Einstein compressed, uh, uh, uh, uh, mass and energy into a five-character equation. Um, Lee, you know, Bruce Lee was an advocate of simplicity. Like, simplicity is, is a virtue, and I think we have to get back to simplicity, especially in government. Simpler, clearer, easier to d- to manage. That's the pro- That's the, kind of the, the philosophical take I'd, I, I'm, I pursue.

Joe Rogan 2:19:54 Well, I appreciate that, and I, I think, like, that philosophy and that perspective from a leader is what we need in this world, you know? And, uh, I think-

Speaker 2:20:04 Well, I think leaders have to have humility because the, the problem is that if you are an egomaniac and you're in power-anywhere in the world, then you're going to want to just continually impose new rules and laws to make yourself bigger. Whereas if you believe in freedom, then you have to take, you have to be able to say to yourself, I don't know better for this other person. He knows better what's for him. And, you know, it's hard, but politicians have to think that they have to trust the people. But, you know, nobody wants to have, he left people alone on their gravestone. They want to think, oh, he built this. He imposed that. He made this grand initiative that he imposed on the people in order to have a legacy. But my legacy is just to let other people build their legacies in their own lives.

Joe Rogan 2:20:49 I think the idea of forging a legacy based on controlling people and imposing your will is ludicrous.

Speaker 2:20:54 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 2:20:55 Yeah.

Speaker 2:20:56 And so-

Joe Rogan 2:20:56 But the problem is history is littered with people like