Dave Smith on Joe Rogan: Why collective punishment aids war

1. 0:02 – 0:13

   Cold open: joking about oil bets and instant billionaire trades

   1. SPSpeaker0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat rock music]

2. 0:13 – 6:37

   Tariff profiteering allegations, Epstein ties, and using AI to fact-check

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      So Dave, you were telling me right before the show that you are now retiring because you got an impromptu phone call and bet hundreds of millions of dollars on oil prices going down. Congratulations.

   2. DSDave Smith0:25

      It was, uh, it was a good bet, it just wasn't timed right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:29

      I thought you got it in on time.

   4. DSDave Smith0:30

      [laughs]

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:31

      I thought you got it in, like-

   6. SPSpeaker0:32

      Did you miss him?

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:32

      Yeah.

   8. DSDave Smith0:32

      [laughs]

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:33

      I thought you got it in, like, five minutes early.

   10. DSDave Smith0:35

       [laughs] I did not. I did not.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       But how is there not a massive investigation to that right away? Didn't someone make, like, $1.8 billion-

   12. DSDave Smith0:43

       Yeah

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       ... in like five minutes?

   14. DSDave Smith0:45

       Yeah. There's a, there's a lot of those, like, trades like that that should be investigated-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Bro

   16. DSDave Smith0:50

       ... that kinda never are.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       Bro. How about, what's his name? Lutnick?

   18. DSDave Smith0:54

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       Yeah, how about that one?

   20. DSDave Smith0:56

       He's... So he's a-

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       The tariffs one

   22. DSDave Smith0:58

       ... working for the administration, and also standing to gain huge if people can sue over the, the tariffs, right?

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Well, explain the whole thing.

   24. DSDave Smith1:07

       Well-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       Like, do you know how to-

   26. DSDave Smith1:09

       Do you-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       Do you know the actual details of it?

   28. DSDave Smith1:10

       No, I don't really know the, the details.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       So essentially he was telling everybody that, you know, "Don't sweat it, the tariffs are golden. We're getting them through. There's gonna be no problems." Is that what it was? But in, and meanwhile, he was shorting the tariffs?

   30. DSDave Smith1:23

       Yes. Yeah, so he was personally shorting them-
3. 6:37 – 12:14

   Waymo chaos: homelessness, safety, and techno-culture clashes

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:37

      Do you see the... There was these San Francisco tech guys, and they got trapped in their Waymo because a homeless guy started attacking the Waymo and yelling at them, "Why are you paying robots?"

   2. DSDave Smith6:47

      No.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:47

      Yeah. Like, "You're a traitor. You're paying robots. You're paying the robots."

   4. DSDave Smith6:51

      The homeless guy was upset about this?

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:53

      The homeless guy. The homeless guy was attacking the Waymo. The tech guys were in the Waymo. "We were terrified for our life. We feared our safety." 'Cause they're, they're being attacked by a crazy person who's saying you shouldn't be giving money to robots.

   6. DSDave Smith7:04

      That's an uncomfortable position to be in.

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:05

      I get all my information from "The Tim Dillon Show"-

   8. DSDave Smith7:08

      [laughs]

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:08

      ... by the way. But they did play a clip.

   10. DSDave Smith7:09

       It's not, it's not the worst source-

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:11

       It's the best source

   12. DSDave Smith7:11

       ... of information. [laughs]

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:12

       It's the best source. Him and that dude, what's his name? Uh, James Lee. He's our other number-one source of information. Conspiracy theorist. [laughs]

   14. DSDave Smith7:20

       There you go. There you go.

   15. JRJoe Rogan7:21

       But, uh, another one, the, uh, a Waymo, a gal got in, and there's a fucking homeless guy in the trunk because apparently the last person, when they left their Waymo, they opened the trunk to get their luggage out, and they never closed it. So the homeless guy hopped into their fucking Waymo- [laughs]

   16. DSDave Smith7:39

       And closed it, caught himself

   17. JRJoe Rogan7:40

       ... and went... Closed it. It was in the trunk. So she get- she orders a Waymo. She climbs in. There's a homeless guy in the trunk. And Wa- Waymo's like, "That's unacceptable." Yeah. Oh, oh, you think?

   18. DSDave Smith7:49

       [laughs]

   19. JRJoe Rogan7:49

       Oh, you think? [laughs] Okay. The main claim is that Cantor Fitzgerald, Howard Lutnick's former firm, now chaired by his son, stood to profit by buying tariff refund rights that only became a v- be- became valuable if Trump's tariffs were overturned. But the firm insists it ultimately did not execute those trades. What critics say happened: investigators and reporter, reporting notably by "Wired," describe Cantor Fitzgerald exploring a business where it would buy the rights to future tariff refunds from importers for about 20 to 30 cents on the dollar. Internal materials cited in those reports suggested Cantor had capacity to trade several hundred million dollars of these refund rights and had already facilitated at least one trade of around $10 million in rights under the IEEPA tariffs. The idea was that if courts later struck down the tariffs, the government would have to refund duties, and Cantor or its clients would collect the full refund while the original importers only kept a small upfront payment. So why is this seen as a conflict? So is it true? So it does say that they executed on one, right? Didn't it say that? Scroll back up.

   20. SPSpeaker8:57

       I think that was based off that email in the other-

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:59

       Yeah

   22. SPSpeaker8:59

       ... article we read.

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:00

       It says, "Internal materials cited in those reports suggested Cantor had capacity to trade and had already facilitated at least one trade of around $10 million in rights." It's only 10 million. Let it go, Dave.

   24. DSDave Smith9:14

       That is small potatoes for what we're talking about.

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:16

       For that, for those guys. Yeah, for these kind of guys.

   26. DSDave Smith9:17

       Uh-huh.

   27. JRJoe Rogan9:18

       Uh, what Cantor and Lutnick's side say: Cantor Fi- Fitzgerald has publicly stated that while some salespeople "explored," I like that in quotes, brokering tariff refund rates in 2025, the firm never executed any transactions or taken any position on tariff refund claims, calling contrary rep- reports false. Follow-up reporting has echoed that Cantor considered products tied to the Su- Supreme Court tariff ruling, but ultimately backed off, in part because of the political optics. Duh.

   28. DSDave Smith9:50

       [laughs] Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:50

       [laughs] Fucking that's a big duh, around Lutnick's government job. Latest coverage says there's no public evidence that Cantor actually booked profits from this strategy, though the investigations in Congress are ongoing and focus on whether there was any attempted or potential profiteering. Are you more interested in the ethics conflicts of interest here or the nuts and bolts of how the secondary tariff refund market works financially? No. So it seems like we don't really have evidence.

   30. DSDave Smith10:18

       Well, it'll be interesting. I mean, if, uh, which is probably gonna happen, um, but, but the Democrats take the House and the Senate in the midterm elections this year, I mean, they're gonna be inve- that'll just be the next two years of politics will be investigations and subpoenas.
4. 12:14 – 18:47

   ‘Going postal,’ the game Postal, and why video games feel like crack

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:14

      In terms of government organizations, you never hear... Except going postal. That used to be a thing. Remember those days?

   2. DSDave Smith12:19

      Yes. Yes, I do.

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:20

      There was a while-Like where so many post officers went so crazy and started shooting people that they-

   4. DSDave Smith12:26

      Yep

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:26

      ... started calling it going postal. But it never s- it just went away.

   6. DSDave Smith12:29

      Yeah. Young people, if you're listening to this and you don't know what we're talking about, in our day, we didn't have school shootings. Okay? We had to do it the old-fashioned way. You had to drive a postman crazy-

   7. JRJoe Rogan12:37

      [laughs]

   8. DSDave Smith12:38

      ... until he went around shooting people, and it happened several times to the point that-

   9. JRJoe Rogan12:41

      Yeah

   10. DSDave Smith12:42

       ... that became a thing. Like these crazy-

   11. JRJoe Rogan12:44

       Dude, there was a video game

   12. DSDave Smith12:44

       ... postal workers.

   13. JRJoe Rogan12:45

       There was a video game called Postal.

   14. DSDave Smith12:48

       Was-

   15. JRJoe Rogan12:48

       Where you run around shooting people. It was in the ni-

   16. DSDave Smith12:50

       Yeah

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:50

       ... I wanna say the '90s.

   18. DSDave Smith12:52

       Yeah, that would be about the time period.

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:54

       Was that-

   20. SPSpeaker12:54

       The first one came out in '97.

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:55

       Yeah. Yeah, and it was, like, highly criticized. They were like... Weren't they, like, cartoon-looking characters? Can you see if you pull up a video of Postal? [laughs]

   22. SPSpeaker13:04

       I'm gonna pull it up.

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       It was like, they're, like, South Park-looking characters.

   24. DSDave Smith13:06

       [laughs]

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:06

       Just blasted people.

   26. DSDave Smith13:08

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan13:08

       So it felt like less, if I remember correctly, or maybe that's the box.

   28. SPSpeaker13:12

       Oh.

   29. JRJoe Rogan13:13

       I never played it. Maybe I played it. I don't know.

   30. DSDave Smith13:15

       Oh, this is the new stuff.
5. 18:47 – 30:30

   Why MMA is uniquely unforgiving: one mistake, one head kick, lights out

   1. DSDave Smith18:47

      No, I mean, that's a real tough one. But there's nothing-- Well, I guess, I guess like professional football, there's a similar aspect to where like you're not just... I mean, look, you can go to the hospital from basketball. You know, you can get-

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:01

      Sure

   3. DSDave Smith19:01

      ... hurt and get a bad injury. But the NFL or the UFC, you kind of like, you know every time you go into it, like there's a very reasonable chance-

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:10

      Yeah

   5. DSDave Smith19:10

      ... you're leaving here on a stretcher to go to the hospital. But particularly with MMA, it's the most unforgiving sport where like you, you're one mistake, one mistake away from like j- you know, like if LeBron James misses a wide open layup, he runs back on defense and tries to, you know, get a block or something on the next play. But in MMA, you could be dominating, fighting a perfect fight, make one mistake, and it's like, okay, you're unconscious now. Maybe in four months-

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:38

      Leon Edwards, Kamaru Usman.

   7. DSDave Smith19:38

      Yeah. Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan19:39

      Perfect example.

   9. DSDave Smith19:39

      Yep.

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:40

       Kamaru's way ahead in the fight. It's in the fifth round. I think there's like 20 seconds to go or something crazy, and Leon just plants one, a perfect head kick.

   11. DSDave Smith19:50

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:50

       And it was the per- and John Anak makes the perfect call. You know, like says, something had been said about him maybe deciding, you know, to quit, and then John Anak says, "But that is not the cloth from which he was cut."

   13. DSDave Smith20:02

       Yep. Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan20:03

       Boom.

   15. DSDave Smith20:03

       [laughs]

   16. JRJoe Rogan20:03

       Head kick knockout. It's like, come on, man, is this real?

   17. DSDave Smith20:06

       One of the most amazing MMA championship knockouts ever.

   18. JRJoe Rogan20:09

       Oh, ever. Ever. And then just his, his post-fight speech. "Look at me now."

   19. DSDave Smith20:14

       [laughs]

   20. JRJoe Rogan20:15

       "Look at me now." [laughs]

   21. DSDave Smith20:17

       And then comes back and wins the rubber match.

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:19

       Yeah.

   23. DSDave Smith20:20

       Which was like, it's an interesting thing, um, how much, you know, like, well first off, like getting knocked out cold like that, and you know better than me, but like that does a number to your body. Like that's not, you're not-

   24. JRJoe Rogan20:31

       Psychologically.

   25. DSDave Smith20:32

       Well, psychologically-

   26. JRJoe Rogan20:32

       It fucks like-

   27. DSDave Smith20:32

       ... and also I think physically.

   28. JRJoe Rogan20:34

       Yeah. Mm-hmm.

   29. DSDave Smith20:34

       Um, and then also just like the confidence that that gave Leon Edwards going into the next fight.

   30. JRJoe Rogan20:39

       Right.
6. 30:30 – 38:44

   Douglas Murray criticism, debate incentives, and the Gaza moral argument

   1. DSDave Smith30:30

      Oh, by the way, I was gonna say that, uh, Douglas Murray's big knock on me when he wrote his op-ed in the New York Post was, he goes, he goes, "You know, Dave goes on Joe Rogan and he talks about foreign policy like he's an expert, but I bet he wouldn't go in there and talk MMA with him, 'cause then Joe would recognize he's not an expert." And I was likeWe do that all the time

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:46

      We do that every show-

   3. DSDave Smith30:47

      We do that all the time

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:48

      ... we do. That's so stupid.

   5. DSDave Smith30:49

      I was like, almost every time we hang out-

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:51

      He's so silly

   7. DSDave Smith30:51

      ... we end up talking MMA. And like, the, it probably is fair that, yeah, there'll be moments where you'll correct me if I get something wrong.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:58

      So what?

   9. DSDave Smith30:58

      But if I get it right-

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:59

       Yeah

   11. DSDave Smith30:59

       ... you don't go, "You're not an expert."

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:01

       That's so dumb. Imagine we don't talk about MMA because you're not an expert.

   13. DSDave Smith31:05

       Like, I don't know.

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:06

       That is so silly.

   15. DSDave Smith31:06

       Well, I watch a lot of it. I have some thoughts.

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:08

       Why is he so, why is he so silly? I love Douglas. I really do. I've enjoyed talking to him. I think he's a brilliant man. But I was very disappointed with, uh-

   17. DSDave Smith31:16

       You've never been?

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:17

       I'm very, very disappointed with that, that sort of strategy-

   19. DSDave Smith31:20

       Yeah

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:20

       ... that you shouldn't be talking about these things that are factual, but even more disappointed with that notion, the notion that like you would never talk about MMA with me. Like, do you think we would... I, I don't, first, first of all, I don't think I argue about MMA with anybody. I don't think anybody... If someone has a point about MMA, I don't, I never argue. I might say-

   21. DSDave Smith31:41

       You've corrected me when I've gotten things wrong

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:42

       ... I disagree. Yeah, or I might say I disa- Like somebody th- some people think that cer- a certain thing's gonna happen, and I'm like, "Ooh, I don't see that. I disagree."

   23. DSDave Smith31:50

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:50

       That happens.

   25. DSDave Smith31:52

       Sure.

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:53

       Yeah, but-

   27. DSDave Smith31:53

       But, well, also like, it's... The, whatever point you're making is either a good point or it's not a good point if it's like an objective claim. You know what I mean?

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:02

       Right.

   29. DSDave Smith32:02

       So like, if I, if I say like, uh, you know, when, when Volkanovski fought Lopez, his jab was crucial.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:09

       Mm-hmm.
7. 38:44 – 44:24

   ICE at airports, the true scale of illegal immigration, and public support realities

   1. JRJoe Rogan38:44

      Do you see the shit that's going on in the airports? So the... Are they using, they're using ICE now at the airports because... First of all, how many ICE agents are there? Aren't they busy? How do you have time to put them in all the airports? How many fucking airports are there?

   2. DSDave Smith38:57

      It's in the low tens of thousands. There's not that many of them.

   3. JRJoe Rogan39:00

      Right. So like how many airports are there? There's a lot of airports.

   4. DSDave Smith39:03

      Crazy.

   5. JRJoe Rogan39:03

      Okay, so you're putting ICE in the airports. Where are you getting all these ICE guys? Are you hiring new ICE guys to take the airport jobs? Like, is this-

   6. DSDave Smith39:11

      To-

   7. JRJoe Rogan39:11

      Like, it takes seven weeks to train them.

   8. DSDave Smith39:14

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan39:14

      So, uh, do they have like a surplus of like a, a ICE factory where they're churning them out and putting them out there?

   10. DSDave Smith39:19

       I heard... So I didn't see any of them. I flew out here the other day, uh, and I didn't see any of them, but then I did see people saying that they were at the, the airport I flew out from later that day.

   11. JRJoe Rogan39:28

       Up to 150. That's not a lot. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers were deployed at, at airports across the United States on Monday. So I, I... Of course, you know, you, you get on social media, somebody sends you something, and somebody sent me something. I'm not sure if it was true, but it was like, "Look at the difference between the lines at the airport before ICE was there and after ICE was there, and tell me that only 10 million illegal aliens got in." [laughs]

   12. DSDave Smith39:56

       [laughs]

   13. JRJoe Rogan39:57

       They're like, they're like, "What is the real..." We were talking about this last night, like what's the real number?

   14. DSDave Smith40:03

       Oh.

   15. JRJoe Rogan40:03

       What is the real number-

   16. DSDave Smith40:04

       Yeah

   17. JRJoe Rogan40:04

       ... of illegals in the United States?

   18. DSDave Smith40:06

       We don't know.

   19. JRJoe Rogan40:06

       You were saying something about Ann Coulter and an idea.

   20. DSDave Smith40:08

       Yeah, well, she had, um... And this was from a while ago, so this was... Well, she had, she had in her book, Adios America, she had, I believe it was from Bear Stearns. I could be wrong. Double-check me on that. It was one, one of the big finance companies, that they had put a thing where like they put it between like 30 and 50 million, um, total in the country.

   21. JRJoe Rogan40:28

       Jeez. [laughs]

   22. DSDave Smith40:29

       And-

   23. JRJoe Rogan40:29

       That is wild.

   24. DSDave Smith40:31

       Yeah, and this is before Joe Biden and them. Now, I don't know. Maybe-

   25. JRJoe Rogan40:33

       Really?

   26. DSDave Smith40:33

       ... maybe they got those numbers wrong.

   27. JRJoe Rogan40:35

       This is before Bi- so what year was this book?

   28. DSDave Smith40:37

       Uh, I wanna say 2014, 2015, something like that.

   29. JRJoe Rogan40:40

       Oh my God, that's 10 years ago. [laughs]

   30. DSDave Smith40:42

       Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of them, a lot of them have come in since then. In fact-
8. 44:24 – 49:49

   Masked enforcement, civil liberties precedents, and ‘terror asylum’ claims

   1. DSDave Smith44:24

      also, the supreme law of the land is the Constitution of the United States of America, and I've seen a ton of videos where there were masked ICE agents not even identifying themselves, going up to people, telling them that, "You have to answer my questions. You don't have an option to walk away," which is, like, not true at all. Well, that was my take on it, is that you can't accept people that are masked, that don't have any paperwork, that don't have a warrant- Yeah ... on the streets in militarized situations. Because if they're using it for this, which you agree to, that opens up the door- Yeah ... for them to use it because you won't take your vaccine- Yep ... or because you did this or did that or whatever the fuck it is. If a different person gets in power, maybe they're gonna use it for something you don't support. Yeah. It's just not something you're supposed to accept. That's right. You don't want to accept that precedent. Here's something that someone told me that is, uh... This is a very credible source that I cannot reveal what the source is. But they told me that there are people in this country, and not just a few, but many, many that are affiliated with terrorist organizations, d- directly affiliated, but they've applied for asylum. And because they've applied for asylum, you can't deport them until they go through the entire process. That is wild. That is wild. Yeah. So there's people that are known at least terrorist sympathizers. They're in communi- direct communication with terrot- terrorist networks. They've done things with terrorist networks, and they've applied for asylum. So you have to go through this long-ass process through the legal system, and it's up to a judge whether or not this person, who may or may not be a part of a fucking sleeper cell, gets to stay in America. Yeah. Suicidal empathy. That's what Gad Saad calls it. You know, I- And I think he's right ... I think he's got a fair point there with suicidal empathy, uh, i- in terms of the idea of, like, that we, that we cannot say on some level that it's like, no, look, we have a desire to preserve our society, and we, we wanna do what's be- and we don't have to, out of some feeling of guilt, turn our country into something worse than what it otherwise would be. So I think he's got a point there. I think... And look, and then I'm not a big fan of Gad. He, uh, literally just... Him and, like, Sam Harris and a few others, they literally just trash me all the time and refuse to engage on a single thing I've said. So, like, it'll just be- Gad doesn't engage with you? He, he calls me Wikipedia Dave- Yeah. [laughs] ... on Twitter. And it's a... Well, look, I d- I like the guy. Look, I g- But I have a different relationship with him than you do. Well, that's true. And I'm a big critic of Israel, and he's a Mossad agent, so- Ah ... there is that. That is partly- You think he is? He's admitted that he worked for Mossad. Yeah. In the past? Yes. Yeah. He's... I guess he would say he's not currently. You retire. Like, I used to- Yeah. Yeah, sure ... I used to work for Newport Creamery. Yeah. I don't represent them anymore. Well, it's a... I think it's a little bit different- [laughs] ... with the Mossad thing. But I also think that the, the big component that I think all of those guys are, are missing is that we also create more enemies with our foreign policy, and that's, that's not to say that, like... You know, they always kind of caricature my position on this. Like, I'm not saying Islam is all peaceful and there are no problems in the Islamic world or anything like that. In fact, I don't think any religion has truly always been peaceful. Um, but, you know, for guys like, say, like Sam Harris, um, who these kind of, like, pretend intellectuals who have spent... He spent his entire career talking about how violent and irrational the Muslims are and how you can't even draw a cartoon of Muhammad or Muslims will wanna do violent stuff. And like, hey, fair enough, that's bullshit, and we should all say, like, if you wanna be over here in the West, our values are free speech, and you cannot kill people for cartoons. But then, like, none of them ever also go, "Hey, you know, murdering an ayatollah might be dangerous." During Ramadan. Yeah. Like, that is, you know, that is not just a political figure to Shiite Muslims. That is a m- so at the same time, it's like, okay, I'm fine with saying, "Okay, you don't wanna have suicidal empathy." Um, my, uh, my, my buddy Keith Knight, who's brilliant-... works over at the Libertarian Institute. He had, I forget what he said, but he, he said something like, "Okay, I don't want to have suicidal empathy. Let's also not have homicidal empathy." You know? And so like maybe it also is like, as we were tying into that whole conversation-

   2. JRJoe Rogan48:54

      Want a straw?

   3. DSDave Smith48:54

      ... with... No, I'm okay, thanks. Um, with the whole thing about the, the kids and women in Gaza.

   4. JRJoe Rogan48:59

      Mm-hmm.

   5. DSDave Smith48:59

      It's like, it's also the fact that if you just view slaughtering Muslim children in the Middle East and in Northern Africa as like just an acceptable political price, you know? That's just collateral damage and unfortunately that happens when we pursue this policy. You're gonna deal with more and more of that. And the combination of both, Joe, like the combination of having open borders, having all these people get in, and continuing the war on terrorism and slaughtering people in these numbers must be the most insane combination.

   6. JRJoe Rogan49:33

      Yeah.

   7. DSDave Smith49:34

      Ever. The idea that you'd be like, "We're gonna, uh, you know, we're gonna just make an entire generation of, of Muslims hate us because so many of them have seen what we've done to their countries, and also we'll welcome all of them in with no checks and we can't get rid of them when they come here."

   8. JRJoe Rogan49:47

      Yeah.

   9. DSDave Smith49:48

      That is quite a combination.

9. 49:49 – 52:05

   Sam Harris, Bret Weinstein, COVID narratives, and platforming disputes

   1. JRJoe Rogan49:49

      Yeah. It's, it's all nuts. It's, uh... The Sam Harris thing, um, I should clarify this 'cause he's apparently talked about me again recently w- on Bill Maher. We didn't not talk because it was his idea. It, it was me. I s- he wanted to do a podcast with me. He wanted to do a co- like a COVID p- you know, wrap up, like to, you know, go over everything that happened, all the mistakes that were made and w- his position, my position, 'cause that's where we kind of like separate.

   2. DSDave Smith50:21

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan50:21

      He was, he was very pro-vaccine. Um, I said, "I won't do that until you talk to Bret Weinstein, that you need to talk to Bret." Like, "Bret, you, you disparaged him publicly. I think you said things that weren't correct. You called him a conspiracy theorist, and you said you wouldn't platform him because it's dangerous. I don't believe that's true." I, I believe the problem is that Sam was incorrect about both the effectiveness and the safety of the COVID vaccines. Bret was correct. And the... Bret didn't insult Sam. Sam insulted Bret. I mean, Bret said things about Sam since, but it was, it was Sam. And I said, "Look, you gotta talk to him first. You can't just talk to me." You know?

   4. DSDave Smith51:07

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan51:07

      Especially because he's an actual evolutionary biologist. Like, he, he understands these things. He knows what he's talking about. He's had multiple conversations with high-level vaccinologists and all these different people that worked on the MR- MRNA vaccines. Like, he was correct. We all know that now. We know that all the things that he was-

   6. DSDave Smith51:28

      Yep

   7. JRJoe Rogan51:28

      ... talking about, whether it's masking doesn't work, social distancing, the, the vac-

   8. DSDave Smith51:34

      Lockdowns

   9. JRJoe Rogan51:34

      ... lockdowns.

   10. DSDave Smith51:34

       Didn't work at all.

   11. JRJoe Rogan51:35

       All the above. All the above. He didn't want to talk to Bret, and I said, "That doesn't make sense to me." Like, you talk to everybody. You have debates with Muslims on stage.

   12. DSDave Smith51:44

       Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan51:45

       You, you... That doesn't make any sense. Like, why wouldn't you talk to Bret? I don't think he wanted to talk to Bret because I don't... I think he didn't want to talk to Bret because Bret's right.

   14. DSDave Smith51:53

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan51:53

       I think it's... And I, I think it's indefensible.

   16. DSDave Smith51:55

       No, I completely agree. I, I mean, you know, I had a-

   17. JRJoe Rogan51:58

       By the way, I don't hate Sam. You know, he can say all the crazy shit he wants. He also said like, "I don't think you should interview Gaddafi." Guess what? I would.

   18. DSDave Smith52:05

       Of course you should.

10. 52:05 – 1:34:14

    Gaddafi, Libya as a failed state, and the larger war-with-Iran argument

    1. JRJoe Rogan52:05

       If Gaddafi was alive, 100% I would interview Gaddafi. Gaddafi... Do you ever hear Russell Crowe talk about Gaddafi?

    2. DSDave Smith52:12

       I don't think so.

    3. JRJoe Rogan52:13

       He did a clip that went viral that was on this show where he talked about why they wanted to get rid of Gaddafi.

    4. DSDave Smith52:19

       Right.

    5. JRJoe Rogan52:19

       And like, where they ta- talked about how evil Gaddafi was and how he subjugated his people. You can't see if we can find that, Russell Crowe on Gaddafi. Um, he wanted to create a United States of Africa.

    6. DSDave Smith52:33

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan52:34

       He wanted to get them on the gold standard. He wanted to get them off the US dollar. He, like, he had some-

    8. DSDave Smith52:39

       Yep

    9. JRJoe Rogan52:39

       ... very dangerous ideas.

    10. DSDave Smith52:41

        Now, he also supported Palestinian resistance.

    11. JRJoe Rogan52:43

        Yeah, that was it.

    12. DSDave Smith52:43

        I know. Hold on. I have to find the sound thing. Goddammit.

    13. JRJoe Rogan52:49

        There's no sound thing in there? Oh, there it is.

    14. DSDave Smith52:51

        It's on.

    15. JRJoe Rogan52:52

        Here it is.

    16. DSDave Smith52:54

        "We are taught, for example, to regard Gaddafi in a certain way."

    17. JRJoe Rogan52:59

        Mm-hmm.

    18. DSDave Smith52:59

        "Okay? But if you look into what happened in his country while he was the leader, you look into the fact that every person is given a house at a certain age. You look at the fact that everybody's education and healthcare is free. You look at if somebody showed a particular talent for something that required further education overseas, all of the costs of that were paid for by the government. Now, these are all things put in place by the same country's leader that we're told is evil-

    19. JRJoe Rogan53:34

        Mm-hmm

    20. DSDave Smith53:34

        ... and corrupt."

    21. JRJoe Rogan53:35

        Yeah.

    22. DSDave Smith53:36

        "So it doesn't quite balance."

    23. JRJoe Rogan53:39

        Well, there's also US government interference. That's a, that's a... That is one that we definitely monkeyed with. I mean, he ran afoul of the United States government.

    24. DSDave Smith53:51

        "We are taught, for example-"

    25. JRJoe Rogan53:52

        Yeah. There was the, um, the famous clip with Hillary.

    26. DSDave Smith53:55

        Oh.

    27. JRJoe Rogan53:56

        Which I showed a friend of mine the other day that he, he hadn't seen it and he couldn't believe it was real.

    28. DSDave Smith53:59

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan53:59

        Where she was on this show, and she gets unconfirmed information first that they got Gaddafi, and then she gets confirmed that he's dead, and she goes, "We came, we saw, he died. [laughs] "

    30. DSDave Smith54:12

        She was so excited about it.
11. 1:34:14 – 2:06:20

    Podcasts vs. corporate media: authenticity, influence, and social-media hygiene

    1. DSDave Smith1:34:14

       Um, but the thing that's... I guess the thing that's really interesting about this moment is that because the kind of corporate media propaganda apparatus has been completely destroyed, and because the internet and social media and podcasts are where people go now for, for, you know, conversations and debates and news and all this stuff-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:34:35

       Mm-hmm

    3. DSDave Smith1:34:36

       ... they're kinda like... They're like w- they're running without a propaganda apparatus. You know? Like, Israel just... I- Israel in the last two and a half years is down, like, 50 points in the polls, like, in terms of American approval. They, they've just been... Th- this... It's a drastic change like I've never seen on any issue-

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:34:56

       Well, it's the first time-

    5. DSDave Smith1:34:57

       ... over the last few years

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:34:57

       ... it's in our lifetimes where it's been an issue that we are dealing with the consequences of the relationship.

    7. DSDave Smith1:35:02

       That's right.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:35:02

       There's never been a time in the past where people were completely aware of, "Oh, there's no other reason why we'd be going into Iran."

    9. DSDave Smith1:35:10

       Yes.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:35:10

        Like, most people, most people don't think-

    11. DSDave Smith1:35:12

        That's... 100%

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:35:12

        ... if it wasn't for Israel asking us to, Netanyahu's consistent visits to the White House, multiple-

    13. DSDave Smith1:35:18

        Oh, you can't even, you can't even, uh, pretend otherwise. I mean, uh-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:35:21

        Right

    15. DSDave Smith1:35:21

        ... people can-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:35:22

        But people do.

    17. DSDave Smith1:35:23

        Yes. Well, they try to, but people-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:35:24

        Coleman Hughes just got in a debate with Glenn Greenwald about it.

    19. DSDave Smith1:35:27

        I saw that they did it. I did- have not had a chance to watch it.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:35:30

        Yeah.

    21. DSDave Smith1:35:30

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:35:30

        But somebody sent it to me, and it was... You know, I'm, I'm being a m- a good boy when it comes to social media.

    23. DSDave Smith1:35:35

        Okay.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:35:35

        It's been so good for my brain.

    25. DSDave Smith1:35:37

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:35:37

        It's kind of remarkable. So, uh, I got a new-

    27. DSDave Smith1:35:40

        Just staying off, you mean?

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:35:41

        Yeah, yeah. My new phone, I'm not gonna put anything on it. I'm gonna have my old phone and leave it at home, and I'm not-

    29. DSDave Smith1:35:46

        That's a good idea

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:35:46

        ... going to be able to look at it, so when I have to post things, I gotta post it on my other phone that's not gonna be with me. I'm not doing that anymore because I just think i- eve- eventually, ultimately it rots your brain. But you do get some cool debates and some insight into what's going on, and I don't know what Coleman's argument was, but, uh, Glenn and Coleman were arguing about Israel's influence on this.
12. 2:06:20 – 2:18:56

    Bots, fake engagement, AI-generated music scams, and ‘what is even real online?’

    1. JRJoe Rogan2:06:20

       Do you see this YouTube bot farm that they just busted?

    2. DSDave Smith2:06:24

       No.

    3. JRJoe Rogan2:06:24

       They busted this c- this fucking warehouse had cell phones all rigged up for YouTube views-

    4. DSDave Smith2:06:32

       Huh

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:06:32

       ... where people would just... They would just hire a company and say, "Hey, you know, uh, Part of the Problem's not getting enough views. I'd really like to blow the fuck up and get to number one."

    6. DSDave Smith2:06:42

       Well, that's-

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:06:42

       And you hire them, and they could get views.

    8. DSDave Smith2:06:45

       Interesting.

    9. JRJoe Rogan2:06:45

       Yeah.

    10. DSDave Smith2:06:46

        Well, that's also... I mean, I guess if you got advertisements-

    11. JRJoe Rogan2:06:48

        Well, there's a lot of people-

    12. DSDave Smith2:06:48

        ... that's legit fraud.

    13. JRJoe Rogan2:06:50

        100%.

    14. DSDave Smith2:06:50

        That's, like, actual fraud. Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan2:06:52

        100%. And kind of a weird loophole where I don't think it's illegal.

    16. DSDave Smith2:06:56

        Yeah, that's gotta be... So that's interesting.

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:06:58

        There's the bot thing too.

    18. DSDave Smith2:06:59

        It's gotta be some type of fraud, though, if you're like-

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:07:01

        It has to be

    20. DSDave Smith2:07:01

        ... if you're intentionally doing that. Like, maybe if you didn't know-

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:07:04

        Right

    22. DSDave Smith2:07:04

        ... you could... But-

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:07:05

        But listen, Twitter pays people. X pays people to post. So you pay based on engagement, right?

    24. DSDave Smith2:07:13

        Right.

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:07:13

        That's how you get paid.

    26. DSDave Smith2:07:14

        Right.

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:07:14

        So you farm out engagement.

    28. DSDave Smith2:07:17

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:07:17

        So, like, what percentage of what we're interacting with is just horseshit?

    30. DSDave Smith2:07:22

        Well, I got... So, um, what does it say here?
13. 2:18:56 – 2:29:01

    Back to fight nerd mode: Ngannou, PFL matchmaking, and UFC heavyweight scarcity

    1. JRJoe Rogan2:18:56

       Bro, this-

    2. DSDave Smith2:18:56

       You'd much rather fight me

    3. JRJoe Rogan2:18:57

       ... this Ronda Rousey card, they got Francis fighting Philip Lins. Philis- Philip Lins, who's a, a light heavyweight at, in the UFC, and the UFC cut him, and he's fighting the scariest heavyweight who's ever walked the face of the earth-

    4. DSDave Smith2:19:09

       I mean, props to him

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:19:09

       ... next to prime time Alistair Overeem. Prime time Alistair Overeem when he was Overeem w- I think is even scarier, I think 'cause he was way skillful. Like s- he was terrifying when he was on the sauce.

    6. DSDave Smith2:19:20

       Yes, but even, uh, yeah, Francis is a natural.

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:19:23

       Like listen, I get what you're saying. Francis was this thing where-

    8. DSDave Smith2:19:25

       So he's scarier

    9. JRJoe Rogan2:19:25

       ... Francis almost has a thing where it just seems like y- y- you, you have to fight a perfect fight-

    10. DSDave Smith2:19:30

        Perfect

    11. JRJoe Rogan2:19:31

        ... against him.

    12. DSDave Smith2:19:31

        Yep.

    13. JRJoe Rogan2:19:32

        Which Stipe Miocic did.

    14. DSDave Smith2:19:33

        In his first fight.

    15. JRJoe Rogan2:19:34

        The first fight. The first fight with him.

    16. DSDave Smith2:19:34

        Well, he took a lot of shots. That's the thing about Stipe, like Stipe could take a shot.

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:19:39

        And you would see he would, like, jab him and he'd be rocked-

    18. DSDave Smith2:19:41

        Oh

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:19:41

        ... but he'd still get the takedown, and he'd still-

    20. DSDave Smith2:19:43

        Yeah

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:19:43

        ... and he exhausted him.

    22. DSDave Smith2:19:44

        He beat him with skill. He beat him with skill, strategy, experience, everything. But in the second one, DC said it best. He goes, "A patient Francis is a fucking terrifying thing."

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:19:53

        Dude, my favorite, uh, my favorite commentary ever in a fight was, uh, when, when DC said... It was just so hilarious to me. He, it was so real, like he just meant it.

    24. DSDave Smith2:20:01

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:20:01

        But it was when, when Francis Ngannou fought, uh, fought, uh, Gane.

    26. DSDave Smith2:20:06

        And he grappled a little bit in that fight, which we had never seen him do-

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:20:09

        Mm-hmm

    28. DSDave Smith2:20:09

        ... uh, before. But there was one point where there, he was on the ground and he, like, took his back or something like that. Like, he passed his guard or he took his back or something like that, and DC just goes, "Oh my God, he's doing jiu-jitsu now." [both laughing] It was like he was speaking of a robot who just-

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:20:24

        Right

    30. DSDave Smith2:20:24

        ... learned how to feel feelings.

Episode duration: 2:52:48