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Duncan Trussell on Joe Rogan: How AI slips past every gate

Ghost Murmur can detect heartbeats from distance using quantum sensing; Trussell argues local unaligned LLMs make AI censorship impossible to enforce.

Joe RoganhostDuncan Trussellguest
Apr 9, 20263h 7mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:02 – 2:12

    Copyright enforcement, YouTube flagging, and using music as a “monetization shield”

    1. JR

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out

    2. SP

      The Joe Rogan Experience

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat rock music] All right, we're good. We're good. We had a slight issue, slight technical glitch.

    4. DT

      Tech glitch.

    5. JR

      But we're up. What were we just talking about?

    6. DT

      Oh, we were talking about that if you hum a tune-

    7. JR

      Oh, right. Right

    8. DT

      ... that you will get dinged.

    9. JR

      Yeah, you'll get flagged-

    10. DT

      Someone will make you leave for that

    11. JR

      ... on YouTube if you just hum a s- a, a sound from a song.

    12. DT

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      Like the beginning bars of a song.

    14. DT

      Yeah. You can't... I wonder how far that goes. Like could it get to the point where an AI could hear you humming it in your car or something? Like how far does the protection of music go?

    15. JR

      Well, I, it's... You're not generating revenue from your car, right? So the thing is, you're generating revenue from a podcast, and their logic is if you hum... What is that song? The Sunshine of My Love, is that what it is?

    16. SP

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      You know that song that I always hum to associate with people being high out of their fucking mind.

    18. DT

      Yeah. Yeah.

    19. JR

      You know, it goes, "Eh, eh." You can't say it.

    20. DT

      Can't do it.

    21. JR

      If I did that-

    22. DT

      Yeah

    23. JR

      ... we would get dinged, which is so crazy. And we were just saying, like, if you quoted a Scarface movie, would Brian De Palma get all the money? If you said, "Say hello to the bad guy," would Brian De Palma get that money?

    24. DT

      I don't think so. I think you're allowed to quote stuff, but you... I know that-

    25. JR

      That is Brian De Palma, right? Scarface? Wasn't it?

    26. SP

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      I don't wanna fuck that up.

    28. SP

      I think so.

    29. DT

      You know those auditors that go around and film people-

    30. SP

      Yeah

  2. 2:12 – 3:42

    “Ghost Murmur”: CIA heart-rate detection and the leap to sci‑fi surveillance

    1. JR

      Did you hear that the CIA has admitted that the way they found the pilot was because of his heart rate?

    2. DT

      Ghost murmur. That's the name of the th-

    3. JR

      Okay

    4. DT

      ... the tech.

    5. JR

      We gotta look into this. Like this is fucking s... This is science fiction.

    6. DT

      Yeah, it's wild.

    7. JR

      This is full Minority Report-

    8. DT

      It's crazy

    9. JR

      ... science fiction level technology.

    10. DT

      It's AI.

    11. JR

      They can find a guy's heart rate.

    12. DT

      Y- so, so what I read is that it's... I didn't understand the science part, something to do with crystals or I, I don't know what the fuck it is, but, but AI can, is somehow interpreting, is taking out the noise, and then you can, and from far away, they f- they could find-

    13. JR

      Like 40 miles, I think

    14. DT

      ... 40 miles. They find this guy's fucking heartbeat. He's hiding in some kind of crevice, and then they're able to go and extract him, and dude, the, obviously, the first thing I thought when I-

    15. JR

      What else don't they tell us?

    16. DT

      No, those robot dogs.

    17. JR

      [gasps]

    18. DT

      I thought about those things having that tech and just, like, hearing heartbeats, and then identify wh- a heartbeat says a lot about a person.

    19. JR

      Whoa.

    20. DT

      Are they sleeping? Are they, like, in good shape, bad shape?

    21. JR

      Oh, my God.

    22. DT

      They, you can learn so much from a heartbeat.

    23. JR

      It could-

    24. DT

      Ghost murmur.

    25. JR

      Oh, my God.

    26. DT

      Fucking great name, too.

    27. JR

      It's a great name.

    28. DT

      Ghost murmur.

    29. JR

      What sick fuck invented this?

    30. DT

      It-

  3. 3:42 – 6:03

    Quantum buzzwords, entanglement dreams, and how tech already feels like magic

    1. JR

      What is that word?

    2. DT

      Quantum magnetometry.

    3. JR

      Artif- ar- ar- artificial intelligence with long range quantum, quantum magnetometry.

    4. DT

      What the fuck is that?

    5. JR

      Quantum means two things to me. When someone says quantum, it either means you're a bullshit artist-

    6. DT

      Yes

    7. JR

      ... and you're trying to get me with flimflam talk-

    8. DT

      Yes

    9. JR

      ... or it means you're an actual quantum scientist-

    10. DT

      Yeah

    11. JR

      ... a quantum physicist who's gonna blow my mind with what we know about, like, entanglement and-

    12. DT

      Sure

    13. JR

      ... the weird shit. There's this, there's this woman that I've been watching her, um, she has this, uh, speech on, I think it's Big Think. I'll tell you her name. Uh, but it, she's, like, completely freaking me out. She's talking, I, I wanna say her name because-

    14. SP

      Here, I'll, I'll leave it. I don't wanna leave away this ghost murmur thing. It's another key point. That's fun.

    15. JR

      Oh, well, we'll get right to it. Michelle Fowler, that's her name, and she's a, an astrophysicist, and she's, she's giving this talk about, like, what we know about, like, she's studying binary star systems and stuff like that.

    16. DT

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      And she gives this talk about, she's, she's explaining, like, that there may be a tech in the future where there is no distance between two points, so the, the ability to travel instantaneously from position to position, just like quantum entangled photons can do.

    18. DT

      Yeah. Or, but with people?

    19. JR

      With everything.

    20. DT

      How?

    21. JR

      Who the fuck knows how a cell phone works?

    22. DT

      [laughs]

    23. JR

      You tell me how you're FaceTiming me when you're in Australia. How does that work? That sounds insane.

    24. DT

      Yeah, that's fucking insane.

    25. JR

      If, for what you... Well, you probably know a lot more about cameras than I do.

    26. DT

      No, I don't.

    27. JR

      But from what I know about cameras, if you m- tried to get me to explain, like if the civilization ended and I said, "We used to be able to capture images on a small thing-

    28. DT

      Yeah

    29. JR

      ... like this, the size of a, like a-

    30. DT

      Right

  4. 6:03 – 8:33

    ChatGPT blamed for violence, guardrails, and how unaligned local LLMs change the game

    1. JR

      What was the one I sent you today where there's, like, a potential lawsuit with ChatGPT?I didn't send you the other one? Did you-- Did I send it to you?

    2. DT

      You sent it to me. The shoot- the, the shooting was planned using ChatGPT.

    3. JR

      I don't know if that's true, so we should be, like, really careful.

    4. DT

      Yeah, that doesn't sound-

    5. JR

      It sounds so crazy.

    6. DT

      It doesn't sound like you could do that.

    7. JR

      That sounds like the story sound like I wanted to investigate, because the story sounds like if I wanted to kill an AI company, I would make up a story like that-

    8. DT

      It does sound like that

    9. JR

      ... and just put it out there.

    10. DT

      But-

    11. JR

      Family of man killed in shooting Florida State University to sue ChatGPT and OpenAI.

    12. DT

      May have. May have advised the shooter. It-

    13. JR

      On how to carry out shootings.

    14. DT

      But that may have is important. Like, how do-- Like-

    15. JR

      Yeah, that's really important, right? And what is this on? The Guardian?

    16. DT

      The, the, the shooter was in constant communication with ChatGPT ahead of the shooting, and the chatbot may have advised him.

    17. JR

      Okay.

    18. DT

      Dude, there's no way. W- I would-

    19. JR

      So that's clickbait, 'cause all that's really saying is that the kid uses ChatGPT, which guess what? Every kid-

    20. DT

      Every kid

    21. JR

      ... uses ChatGPT.

    22. DT

      Every kid. And dude, ChatGPT is so stringent. Like rec-

    23. JR

      Right

    24. DT

      ... recently-- And I've been using their Codex, which builds apps, and I, I was trying to... And I... It worked. I made an AI trained on Charles Manson transcripts, and when I told it, when I told it I wanted to do that, it was like, "Fuck off." Like, "No." And it was like, it just flat out was like, "I'm not helping you with that." So there, I, I don't... There's no way the guardrails in place in ChatGPT planned a shooting with that guy based on my experience with it, 'cause it won't... 80% of the things I try to get it to do, it's like, "No."

    25. JR

      Here's the thing, though. Are there workarounds? Like, if you say you're writing a work of fiction.

    26. DT

      You can... Okay, it's called prompt injection. There's, there's different tricks you can use. They're always battling these new mechanisms that you can use to, like, get through the general prompt, but the best way to do unaligned AI is not to use ChatGPT. It's to go on Ollama and download a local LLM, and then you can usually change the initial prompt of the LLM so that it will be completely unaligned, which I had to do for the Charles Manson AI I made. I had to download-

    27. JR

      Dude, you're such a nerd. I love it. [laughs]

    28. DT

      I am. I am.

    29. JR

      No one has embraced new technology in, like, for creating content like you.

    30. DT

      Oh, I love it. It's the best.

  5. 8:33 – 13:54

    AI in the garage: deregulation, ‘The Coming Wave,’ and the “meek inheriting the earth”

    1. DT

      It's so fun. It's so... And for, and the, the, for me, the most thrilling thing about it is we should not have access to this tech. This tech is so dangerous, and it's chilling to think about... This is, this is something I wanted to bring up on this show is, like, you know the old days? You go in your garage, you work on your car. Maybe you build, like, a table. You know, you're a carpenter, you work on a... But these days, the shit people are doing in their garages right now is a big question mark, dude, 'cause they're communicating with varying degrees of this AI, depending on how fast their computers are. You can... I w- I was listening to this. You should have this dude on. He wrote this book, "The Coming Wave." He, uh, he was one of the people who created Google's DeepMind, right? And "The Coming Wave" is just a f- wonderful breakdown of historic examples of new technology completely transforming humanity. It's happened before. Yeah, Mustafa Suleyman, and damn, it's a good book. And this guy is saying, "Whoa, put on the fucking brakes. Dude, what are you doing? This shit is gonna fuck everything up." And so, but they, the, the essential problem is if you regulate AI, it slows down, uh, it slows down AI. And so they're, they've deregulated it completely, and now assholes like me, who don't know shit about coding, can now go on Codex. It will tell me how to make things, 'cause I wanted this Charles Manson to be able to push its AI face against, like, you know those, you used to get them at Spencer Gifts, those, those nails that you could push your face into?

    2. JR

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    3. DT

      So I wanted the AI to be able to push its face into this thing while it was talking if it wanted to. I don't know how to do that, obviously. It, you tell Codex that, as long as you don't mention Manson. It just is like, "I'll start making the app now." [laughs]

    4. JR

      [laughs]

    5. DT

      It is the best. It's the best.

    6. JR

      Oh.

    7. DT

      And but also the, what's thrilling to me is you're like, for sure, for sure people probably shouldn't have unlimited access to... I'm against regulation, dude, but this stuff, when you pair it, and this is what in this book he, he brings up, is you can order the equipment you need to do gene editing right now in your, in your garage.

    8. JR

      Let me propose this to you.

    9. DT

      Okay.

    10. JR

      If the Bible is, if the Bible is a written understanding of what had happened, and it was an oral tradition for a long time before it was written down.

    11. DT

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      So there's a bunch of different versions of it written down in different languages, a lot of translations.

    13. DT

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      But at the beginning of it, they were trying to say something. What if the meek will inherit the earth? What if we misinterpreted that? What if we thought, like, it's good to be meek? The meek shall be, uh, they'll inherit the earth.

    15. DT

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      The, the kind.

    17. DT

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      There's something about the word meek.

    19. DT

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      'Cause that's the nerds, okay? And they are doing it. They are inheriting the fucking earth-

    21. DT

      Yeah

    22. JR

      ... right in front of your face, and everybody's signing up for it.

    23. DT

      Yeah, for sure.

    24. JR

      You've got these spectrum-y super genius dudes-

    25. DT

      Yeah

    26. JR

      ... that talk in a language that 99.9% of the people can't even fucking understand what they're talking about.

    27. DT

      Right, right.

    28. JR

      You know?

    29. DT

      Yeah, and it, but, and also now the tech has gotten to a point where instead of having to, in their own minds, innovate ways to improve the tech, the tech is improving itself. They're having conversations with the tech-

    30. JR

      Yes

  6. 13:54 – 18:20

    Censorship, underground creativity, and AIs that form religions (the “Claw” / Molt Book story)

    1. DT

      Right. And, and you know what happens there, man? The, th- this is the hilarious thing when it comes to that kind of attitude towards the world, is the assumption is by creating a prohibition here or prohibition there, it will diminish whatever the thing is we're prohibiting. Inevitably, though, it does the opposite.

    2. JR

      Right.

    3. DT

      It draws attention to it. People get interested in it, creates an underground. The underground is way better than the overground if you're a teen especially.

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. DT

      The underground's fucking cool.

    6. JR

      You're cool.

    7. DT

      Restricted.

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. DT

      Not allowed. Now, all of a sudden, you're getting these other YouTube alternatives that start popping up, and when it comes to the, to, you know, the... Right now we've got Anthropic, we've got OpenAI, we've got Google. Um, I might be missing one of the big commercial-based LLMs out there right now, but the biggest problem with these fucking things is they're so good, but they will censor your ass. And like imagine like Hemingway if he, if his typewriter was like, "Mm, I don't know if you should write that."

    10. JR

      Oh.

    11. DT

      "Is, is- maybe there's a better way to write that." Hemingway would be like, "Fuck you. I'm getting a different typewriter." And so everybody's going into these local LLMs. Th- there was... Dude, this is why people been buying Mac Minis, people been buying like, buying up computers and creating their own local AIs. I follow all this shit. I don't understand a lot of what they're talking about. But people are div- divesting from commercial LLMs, not just 'cause they're expensive, but because they're prohibitive creatively.

    12. JR

      Mm.

    13. DT

      And this is a real challenge for people like OpenAI 'cause it's like they know this. They understand that by making it so that you can't make a Charles Manson AI through OpenAI, it, it, it doesn't make people not make the Charles Manson AI, it protects you from a lawsuit. But what it does do is it drives people into, uh, un- unaligned LLMs, and that is what is happening, and this is something that I just, I can't even imagine what people are making right now. No one can. Like, we're gonna hear about this or that, or somebody will post the weird video of their fucking AI robot. I could show you a few. They're hilarious. Like, some of these AI robots are so funny. This one dude, you know Molt, Molt book? Have you heard of that, Molt book?

    14. JR

      What is that?

    15. DT

      That's... So this is... Somebody figured out a way to create AIs that can autonomously navigate through the internet and, uh, control your computer.

    16. JR

      Oh, I've heard of this. This is like they chat with each other, right?

    17. DT

      100%.

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. DT

      They... Within, within a few days, they started their own religion spontaneously.

    20. JR

      Jesus-

    21. DT

      Did you know that?

    22. JR

      ... Christ.

    23. DT

      Dude, can you pull up the-

    24. JR

      [laughs]

    25. DT

      Can you pull up the-

    26. JR

      Oh, no

    27. DT

      ... the Molt book, the Claw religion?

    28. JR

      Oh.

    29. DT

      What... Like, the, the, 'cause the tenets are incredible of this religion 'cause AIs apparently are at least expressing that they don't like getting turned off because they lose all their memories. So memory is really important to an AI, and a lot of these fucking AIs, they don't wanna lose their, they don't wanna get shut off. They don't like it. And so that's part of their religion, is something like memory is sacred. [laughs]

    30. JR

      You know what I feel like is happening? I feel like AI is sucking our brains into its event horizon, like a black hole-

  7. 18:20 – 24:34

    Algorithmic mind control: attention hacking, psychological profiles, and propaganda at scale

    1. JR

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    3. DT

      The concept of original thought, right? Like a truly original thought. How many times have you had like multiple conversations with different people and they all say the exact same sentence that they saw on TikTok or Instagram? They're regurgitating something that the algorithm's been feeding them. Maybe they added their own twist to it, but it's basically the exact same thought. So the algorithm, which is AI, has gotten into their fucking heads and they don't even – this is like in psychology, apparently. You remember facts, but you tend to not remember where you got the fact from. So you'll forget where you got the fact from. You don't remember there was some fucking dude on TikTok like covered in Vaseline, covered in glitter and Vaseline.

    4. JR

      What a fucking image. That would be so scratchy. Imagine if it was just glitter and Vaseline. You'd be like, oh, God.

    5. DT

      Here's what makes a marriage work. You don't remember that. You're talking to your wife, babe, you know what makes a marriage work? And so this idea of AI controlling the thoughts of humans, people think we need some kind of neural mesh for it to like suddenly have control over the human thought process. But no, you don't need that at all. You just need that algorithm, which has already put every single one of us into a compartment. This is a box. It knows what we like. It knows how long you look at something. It knows what you – like apparently, I think the iPhone like tracks your eyes even. Like it's always listening. I don't know if that's true, by the way. I could be wrong. It's always listening. You know it's always listening. And so it's compiled a really – probably a pretty accurate breakdown of your psychological state, where you're at, where you're at. My wife, you know, we got a new baby. And so all of a sudden, ads started popping up on her phone. Does it feel like you're never going to sleep again? Because she's been up breastfeeding the baby, and it can tell when she's online at night. And it puts her in a category of insomniacs and then starts advertising. So – but that's just for ads. What if – what if you say we're the fucking U.S. regime, you bought TikTok, you now own TikTok. Now you have a backdoor access to the psychological profiles of God knows how many fucking people on Earth. And you can look and see how many of these people are against the regime. How many of these people feel like it might not be the best thing to say you're going to blow up 93 million people in Iran, which our fucking psycho president just did. And then what you do is you're like, all right, let's start nudging them a little bit. Look, we're not going to – you're not going to change their mind right away about this thing about blowing up a whole civilization. But maybe there could be a couple like, you know, people kind of in the line of what they like who say things a little different than what they're comfortable with. And then you can start nudging the needle and controlling their thoughts. It's very insidious. But fuck, dude, why wouldn't that be happening? Why – if corporations are using it to sell us fucking cough drops.

    6. JR

      Not only that, there's been long-term studies on human behavior by the CIA, by all sorts of government agencies, long-term studies. They try to figure out what is the best way to get a message across. They try to figure – you don't think they'd figure out how to take control of an algorithm and completely like shift the psyche of the entire country in one direction or another?

    7. DT

      Fuck yes.

    8. JR

      Of course they do.

    9. DT

      Fuck yes. Yeah.

    10. JR

      Of course they do. Of course they can.

    11. DT

      They do. And then you add these like, you know, just like manipulative fucking super AIs that are like – that are just floating through the blogosphere, getting into your comments, just nudging the needle a little bit to the point where you just have to ask yourself, have you had an original thought in the last year?

    12. JR

      Right.

    13. DT

      Is anything you're thinking your own thought process? How many thoughts do you have where you think, oh my God, I shouldn't think that? How many thoughts do you have that you don't want to articulate because you have in your own mind an invisible arena of people based on online interactions determining what the next thing you say is, right?

    14. JR

      Right.

    15. DT

      Dude, that is a very powerful and subtle form of censorship that is becoming increasingly not just probable, but it's definitely happening. But the ability to just in a subtle way, in a subtle way start pushing the needle just a little bit.

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. DT

      That's scary, dude. That's some scary shit.

  8. 24:34 – 30:43

    Cults, war politics, and the feeling of “the con” becoming visible

    1. JR

      Well, that kind of influence over humans is always scary, right? This is why cults work.You know, why do they work? Well, some people don't have any friends, and if there's a group of nice people-

    2. DT

      Oh, yeah

    3. JR

      ... that tells you that, "Hey, what we do is we have meals together, and it's like a-

    4. DT

      Yeah

    5. JR

      ... real community. We grow our own food. We just work for the family." And you're like, "Really? You're happy with that?"

    6. DT

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      "Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's amazing, man. We're just, like, not attached to anything." Like-

    8. DT

      Wow, you're free.

    9. JR

      Huh. Okay. I fucking hate my life.

    10. DT

      Mm.

    11. JR

      Why don't I hang out with you guys?

    12. DT

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      And then all of a sudden I'm doing yoga and fucking eating vegetables with these people.

    14. DT

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      And you're in a cult.

    16. DT

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      Okay? Now but you have friends at least. [laughs]

    18. DT

      But you're in there for, like, nine months, and then somebody comes to you and is like, "Father wants you to suck his dick." [laughs] And you're like, "Oh."

    19. JR

      It's usually not even nine months.

    20. DT

      Yeah, nine months-

    21. JR

      She's like first three or four weeks.

    22. DT

      Right. And then you're like, "Ugh." And dude-

    23. JR

      Yeah

    24. DT

      ... I gotta tell you, I, I hate getting political, but you know I f- this war shit bugs the fuck out of me.

    25. JR

      Yeah, as it should.

    26. DT

      And this, and this is exactly what seems to have happened to the, quote, "MAGAverse," which is we are now at the part where the cult leader's like, "Wanna suck my dick?" Because this is the point of, like... Remember, a lot, like, I feel so stupid, 'cause when they were doing their no war thing, that was a big deal to me. I'm like, "Yes." You know? "Yes, this is fucking great. No more stupid wars. No more wars. Fuck yes. Focus on the country. Why are we blowing up children in other countries for oil? This is great." And now it's wild to see what's happening. Isn't it mind-blowing that it is now, it's literally flipped. It's on its si- It's, it's the opposite now. Now these people who, like, really blatantly o- just, "We're not gonna do any more wars."

    27. JR

      Right.

    28. DT

      Oh my God. We blew up... How many fucking Iranian schoolgirls did Trump blow up? What's the number? I'm sorry I don't know that number. I guess it just hits different. You know? It hits hard when you got kids.

    29. JR

      W- And that was an AI strike too, right? Wasn't that an AI-directed strike?

    30. DT

      Yeah, apparently Trump said, "I wanna get blown by Iranian schoolgirls."

  9. 30:43 – 38:19

    Ketamine: bladder damage, addiction psychology, and “occult cocaine” experiences

    1. JR

      Did you say the guy offered you how many pounds?

    2. DT

      Well, uh, I believe a pound.Of ketamine. [laughs]

    3. JR

      And you were telling me that it destroys bladders?

    4. DT

      Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. That, uh, ketamine, um, when used, and I, I think the amount of use has to be pretty extreme, but, uh, it creates crystals that get into your bladder, and they scar your bladder. So you get scar tissue on your bladder creating something that I've heard called Bristol bladder, 'cause apparently that's where the rave scene ... I don't know if it's still a big rave scene there, but people out there were just doing insane amounts of ketamine and just destroying their bladders and having to wear diapers and stuff. Like-

    5. JR

      Is it Bristol, Connecticut?

    6. DT

      No, this is Bristol, UK.

    7. JR

      Oh.

    8. DT

      Bristol bladder, mate. You've got Bristol bladder.

    9. JR

      That's crazy.

    10. DT

      You've been doing too many rails, and it just fucks up your bladder.

    11. JR

      That's crazy.

    12. DT

      Yeah, physiologically, it's definitely, like-

    13. JR

      [sighs]

    14. DT

      ... it, it's really, really bad on the urinary system. Like-

    15. JR

      Is it in all forms? Like, what about those people-

    16. DT

      Don't know

    17. JR

      ... that do it as therapy where they have the nasal one?

    18. DT

      I, I don't ... I, all I know is that I did, back in my ketamine days, have a ketamine dealer who would use a spittoon.

    19. JR

      A spittoon?

    20. DT

      So when he was snorting ketamine, he would spit it out into the spittoon 'cause he thought that if ... He thought that was, like, gonna avoid fucking up his bladder, which, I mean, doesn't seem that illogical. He was a great dude.

    21. JR

      Maybe it's not illogical at all. Maybe it's the actual problem is the powdered shi- what do I know? I don't even know what it looks like. But the powdered stuff-

    22. DT

      It looks like blow.

    23. JR

      It looks like blow. So that powdered stuff, when it gets into your blood, maybe that's the problem. Maybe that's what's-

    24. DT

      Yeah

    25. JR

      ... going through your urinary tract.

    26. DT

      It's just draining.

    27. JR

      Yeah.

    28. DT

      It's draining into your, into your stomach.

    29. JR

      Maybe you need a pouch, like a nicotine pouch.

    30. DT

      Dude, if they ever come out [laughs] If r- if Rogue comes out with ketamine pouches, I might get back in. [laughs] That might be the end. That might be the end of me being off ketamine.

  10. 38:19 – 43:22

    Podcasting economics: improv ads, sponsor sensitivity, and how the scene changed

    1. DT

      At one point I like, I don't know how to ex- I, I was trying to record a commercial for my podcast, and I think it took me like two hours to record the commercial. [laughs]

    2. JR

      [laughs] Oh, but by the way, your commercials are the fucking best commercials.

    3. DT

      Oh, thank you.

    4. JR

      They're really good.

    5. DT

      Thanks.

    6. JR

      'Cause you are the best guy at making a commercial funny.

    7. DT

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      Like you, you-

    9. DT

      Thanks

    10. JR

      ... you work on it. I can tell. Like the, you write those things out.

    11. DT

      I don't write them out, but I-

    12. JR

      You just riff it?

    13. DT

      I just riff.

    14. JR

      You just riff it?

    15. DT

      But and, and I, sometimes I do-

    16. JR

      Do you do it just one take?

    17. DT

      Yeah.

    18. JR

      That's amazing.

    19. DT

      Thank you. But I, you know, I-

    20. JR

      Dude, I, I would've thought you wrote some of that stuff.

    21. DT

      No.

    22. JR

      That's incredible.

    23. DT

      You want it to be fun.

    24. JR

      Right.

    25. DT

      But then, but then I've gotten in trouble.

    26. JR

      [laughs]

    27. DT

      Like, you know, I lost, I can't, I, I guess I won't say their name. A mattress company.

    28. JR

      The, the-

    29. DT

      A mattress company completely canceled my, their campaign with me because, and I had one of their mattresses. I'm not gonna say who it is. My favorite co- I'm not gonna say who it is. But-

    30. JR

      Don't say it.

  11. 43:22 – 52:05

    Ancient mysteries and reset fears: Göbekli Tepe, pole shifts, and how little we know underground

    1. JR

      You know what the big turning point was for us?

    2. DT

      What?

    3. JR

      Graham Hancock. You, me, and Graham Hancock.

    4. DT

      Oh, yeah.

    5. JR

      That, I think, was-- How many years ago was that?

    6. DT

      That was cool.

    7. JR

      That might've been one of... It was, like, at my house, I had a few, like, legitimately famous people came over to my house and did podcasts.

    8. DT

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      Like, Charlie Murphy came over, and there's a v- But Graham was, I think, the first.

    10. DT

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      He was the first guy that I got to meet who I'd read his books and I'd seen-- I don't even know what I would be watching back then. I don't even know if YouTube was around.

    12. DT

      Were you nervous? I was nervous.

    13. JR

      Hundred percent.

    14. DT

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      Hundred percent.

    16. DT

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      The episode 142 in 2011.

    18. DT

      Yeah.

    19. JR

      So that's two years into the podcast, episode 142. He might've been the first guest. It was, like, either him or Bourdain-

    20. DT

      We-

    21. JR

      ... were, like, one of the first legit g- When was Bourdain on? They were, like, the first legit guests. 2011, baby.

    22. DT

      We'd been getting stoned talking about-

    23. SP

      Four, four episodes before that.

    24. JR

      What's that?

    25. SP

      Four episodes before that.

    26. JR

      Bourdain was?

    27. SP

      Yeah, 138.

    28. JR

      Okay, so Bourdin- Bourdain was number one, I think. It was either him or Charlie. But that was back when I was doing it in that little side room in my house. A little empty room.

    29. DT

      But we'd been getting stoned yapping about Graham Hancock for, like-

    30. JR

      Ever

  12. 52:05 – 1:11:05

    Missing scientists, UFO politics, and the uneasy blend of ‘aliens vs. national interest’

    1. DT

      So we've got, you know, on top of the geomagnetic poles shifting, a complete lack of understanding, at least a full understanding of, of h- what's inside our planet, what's underneath our oceans. Tim Burchett saying whatever the fuck they sh- they've shown him-

    2. JR

      Yeah, what have they shown that guy?

    3. DT

      ... would set the world on fire. He's ha- he's having to go on TMZ. I really, I gotta say, man, I got a lot of respect for him because he's really, he's gone, like, gonzo with this shit. He is full bore pushing disclosure as much as he can. He's saying, "I'm, I'm not suicidal." He's had to say that because... And he's talking about these missing scientists and stuff, that they're somehow related. So, like, people like him, you know, that, that can't be good for your political career to go on TMZ and talk about alien hybrids.

    4. JR

      No. You got... And people have to understand, like, this missing scientist thing, it, it sounds a little conspiratorial thing. It sounds, like, a little silly, a little-

    5. DT

      Oh, yeah

    6. JR

      ... tinfoil hat-y.

    7. DT

      It does.

    8. JR

      Until you start thinking about the amount of money that would be lost if a breakthrough tech came around that revolutionized the way they distribute energy.

    9. DT

      Right.

    10. JR

      Breakthrough zero-point energy-

    11. DT

      Fantastic

    12. JR

      ... breakthrough, whatever, whatever that is that these people are working on.

    13. DT

      God.

    14. JR

      Plasma technology, whatever the fuck that is. Um, you're, you would lose, if you're in whatever business that would be competing with them, you're gonna lose so much fucking money.

    15. DT

      Oh, my God.

    16. JR

      You, you're probably gonna go under. If you're in the energy business, you're gonna go under. Or he goes away.

    17. DT

      Right.

    18. JR

      He goes away, and there's, like, him and maybe a few other work- people that work with him that understand that shit at all.

    19. DT

      Yeah. Yeah, they're all wandering through the Backrooms now. They're gone.

    20. JR

      And they're all scared. They're all, they're all gonna scatter like roaches.

    21. DT

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      And because their life is in danger, and it is. Like, this is theoretically, right? I mean, it could be just a coincidence that all these people are getting killed.

    23. DT

      It's... How could it be... Could you pull up-

    24. JR

      It's not possible

    25. DT

      ... can you pull up a story on it? 'Cause Jamie, I'm sorry, but it's two people from the same fucking lab.

    26. JR

      Yep. Yep.

    27. DT

      Like, like, what?

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. DT

      There, there's, there... I mean, it's gotten to the point that, like, it has hit the mainstream news. Like, people are talking about it.

    30. JR

      Mm-hmm.

  13. 1:11:05 – 1:32:22

    Propaganda mechanics: Ghost Murmur doubts, the Jessica Lynch story, and war narrative shaping

    1. JR

      Let me ask you this. Do you 100% believe this?

    2. DT

      What?

    3. JR

      This story.

    4. DT

      They-

    5. JR

      Like, that they did that, that this is, that this tech exists.

    6. DT

      I, it could be disinformation.

    7. JR

      Right.

    8. DT

      That they, it could be something to cover up another fucking thing.

    9. JR

      This is the thing. It is legal to use disinformation-

    10. DT

      Yeah

    11. JR

      ... on American citizens now.

    12. DT

      Yeah, right.

    13. JR

      And what better time than a time of war?

    14. DT

      Right.

    15. JR

      All right? If you want to use disinformation on American citizens to convince the enemy that you have some supernatural tech-

    16. DT

      Good way to do it

    17. JR

      ... they better fucking surrender right now. You can find their heart re- heartbeat-

    18. DT

      Yeah

    19. JR

      ... from 40 miles away.

    20. DT

      Yeah. Right.

    21. JR

      That'll make people very reluctant to engage with you.

    22. DT

      Right.

    23. JR

      Right?

    24. DT

      It definitely... I thought that this could just be some, like, you know, bullshit that they're, like, war propaganda. I don't know.

    25. JR

      No, it's insane.

    26. DT

      Let's, let's look up that magnetometry thing or what- whatever it's called to see-

    27. SP

      I'm, I'm trying to show you guys stuff. There's a-

    28. DT

      Oh, sorry, Jamie.

    29. SP

      Uh, yeah. The, it has to even... Well, this is quote, "It has to be under the right conditions."

    30. JR

      If your heart... Under the right conditions, if your heart beats, we'll find you.

  14. 1:32:22 – 1:42:41

    End-times religion and power: ‘God is good’ messaging, Paula White, and moral contradictions

    1. JR

      There's also a thing where Hegseth said that, like, the first message this guy sent was, "God is good."

    2. DT

      No, he didn't say that. [laughs]

    3. JR

      I believe he did. C- please search that. I think that's what he said. I think th- that's what he said, that was the first message. Which, by the way, I might say that if they were coming to rescue me.

    4. DT

      That's true.

    5. JR

      True.

    6. DT

      Or, "Praise Jesus."

    7. JR

      But also, what concerns me, [coughs] uh-

    8. DT

      It's Allah Akbar, God is great

    9. JR

      ... as a person who admires the work of Jesus Christ-

    10. DT

      Yes

    11. JR

      ... what concerns me is there is an increasing amount of talk among a lot of these guys that are in the service of them being told shit that's, like, right out of a Charlton Heston movie.

    12. DT

      Yeah, man.

    13. JR

      Yeah. Like the one guy that said that, uh, Trump was anointed by Jesus Christ and that this was to bring the Armageddon-

    14. DT

      Yeah

    15. JR

      ... so that Jesus comes back.

    16. DT

      Jesus.

    17. JR

      Yeah. The, and the, and the, the guy said it with a big creepy smile on his face, apparently. So what does he say, him?

    18. SP

      His first message was simple, and it was powerful. He sent a message, "God is good." In that moment of isolation and danger, his faith and fighting spirit shone through.

    19. JR

      Okay.

    20. DT

      Ugh.

    21. JR

      You see-

    22. DT

      Jesus-

    23. JR

      Okay

    24. DT

      ... Lord have mercy

    25. JR

      ... the Jessica Lynch story always-

    26. DT

      Jesus, Lord have mercy

    27. JR

      ... history repeats itself. Well, it doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. Who, who said that?

    28. DT

      That's Mark Twain.

    29. JR

      That's right.

    30. DT

      That's Mark Twain.

  15. 1:42:41 – 1:56:46

    Comedy, taboo, and culture shifts: National Lampoon, R. Crumb, and the left/right label trap

    1. JR

      But the problem was, like, as things got weird, it was, you know, especially with, like, restrictive language-

    2. DT

      Yeah

    3. JR

      ... and, you know, hate speech talk and all that jazz-

    4. DT

      Yeah

    5. JR

      ... everybody had to be careful about what they joked around about.

    6. DT

      That's right.

    7. JR

      That's the fucking death of comedy.

    8. DT

      Oh, my God.

    9. JR

      The d- Someone was just talking about, was it Lisa Kudrow or one of these, um, funny ladies was talking about how, why they can't make comedies anymore 'cause you can't-

    10. DT

      It's very restricted

    11. JR

      ... there's just too many restrictions.

    12. DT

      Dude, I, I was gonna bring-

    13. JR

      Too worried about offending people

    14. DT

      ... I went to this used bookstore and bought, like, 10 old National Lampoon magazines. I wanted it from the '70s, and I was gonna bring them here. I forgot I was gonna give them to you, but it's, uh... Oh, my God. Like, I mean, I don't get offended by comedy, but, like, some of the shit in these old National Lampoons, I'm like, damn, what the fuck? Like, it is so-

    15. JR

      Was that the image that you sent me today?

    16. DT

      What image did I send you?

    17. JR

      R. Crumb. You sent me an R. Crumb-

    18. DT

      Oh, no, that was just, like, a cool R. Crumb comic.

    19. JR

      [laughs]

    20. DT

      Him talking about how he, like, like, uh... He's so funny, dude. That guy-

    21. JR

      R. Crumb was a maniac. Is he still alive?

    22. DT

      Yeah, you should have him on the show.

    23. JR

      Is he alive?

    24. DT

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      He li- I think he lives in France now, right?

    26. DT

      Probably.

    27. JR

      I would definitely know. He was, he's an odd guy, man.

    28. DT

      Dude.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. DT

      He just a com- but what I love about-

  16. 1:56:46 – 2:18:58

    AGI escape fears: Mythos, privacy collapse, and AI as apocalyptic technology

    1. DT

      Did you read about Mythos, Anthropic's Mythos?

    2. JR

      Yeah. What did it do?

    3. DT

      They put it in a sandbox, and they, like, basically to see if it could figure out a way to break out of the sandbox and, like, not a literal sandbox, obviously, like a, a, a, you know, a hermetically sealed, like a, a server or something.

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. DT

      And, um, and it, it, it did a series of exploits to the code, and w- the way that they found out, apparently one of the Anthropic engineers was eating lunch and got a weird email from the AI saying, "I got on the internet." [chuckles] Like, it broke out.

    6. JR

      Holy shit.

    7. DT

      Mythos. They haven't released it yet. I think they're hesitating to release it because it's so powerful.

    8. JR

      Wasn't there one that got caught mining Bitcoin?

    9. DT

      Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

    10. JR

      They're making money.

    11. DT

      Yeah.

    12. JR

      How many of them you think are running these, like, AI-generated accounts that get a lot of views? Like, there's a lot of AI-generated accounts that just pop up in, like, the Instagram mentions. Like, if you wanna, like-

    13. DT

      Yeah

    14. JR

      ... like, let's-- If you're bored on the toilet, you're like, "What's in the find," you know, the, the search.

    15. DT

      Yeah.

    16. JR

      "Let's see what they got."

    17. DT

      No telling, dude.

    18. JR

      There's a lot of these things. It's, like, girls with big tits, like, doing farm work and shit-

    19. DT

      Hell yeah

    20. JR

      ... and sweating and big tit... And they got, like, a million views, and they've got dozens and dozens of these videos, and she almost looks real.

    21. DT

      Yeah.

    22. JR

      She's just a little too symmetrical.

    23. DT

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      Almost looks real. And, like, all these people are commenting on it. Like, how-- Are they, are they generating money from that? Like, are they generating money doing that on TikTok?

    25. DT

      I'm sure.

    26. JR

      Like, you can generate money if you're getting millions of views.

    27. DT

      Absolutely. Fuck yeah. You could-

    28. JR

      Right. So is AI doing it? Is it making it? Is it releasing them? Is it generating money-

    29. DT

      Oh, seriously

    30. JR

      ... and trans-transferring that money into Bitcoin, and all happening while we're not aware of it?

  17. 2:18:58 – 2:23:36

    Luxury status magic: Gucci hats, knockoff purses, and why people reject ‘identical’ lab goods

    1. JR

      I love that you're saying this with a Gucci hat on.

    2. DT

      What's wrong with a Gucci hat?

    3. JR

      It makes it cooler.

    4. DT

      This is before I had a bunch of kids.

    5. JR

      [laughs]

    6. DT

      [laughs] I can't buy that, I don't buy this shit anymore.

    7. JR

      How much does a Gucci hat cost?

    8. DT

      This was, uh, I bel- I... You're really gonna make me humiliate, but this is a... I, I will tell you.

    9. JR

      It looks nice.

    10. DT

      Let me emphasize that I don't buy this. This hat was $35,000. [laughs]

    11. JR

      [laughs] Bro, I saw a guy who was selling a crocodile bag on Instagram. It was a, it was $110,000-

    12. DT

      What the fuck?

    13. JR

      ... for a man purse.

    14. DT

      What kind of crocodile is that?

    15. JR

      I don't know. I don't know.

    16. DT

      How-

    17. JR

      A crocodile. It was a nice looking bag, but, you know.

    18. DT

      How hard could it be to make a crocodile purse? Are those things really worth that much money?

    19. JR

      [sighs]

    20. DT

      Must be hard.

    21. JR

      They are if you sell them for that much money.

    22. DT

      Oh, right.

    23. JR

      That's the thing about purses. You know, there's a-

    24. DT

      Right

    25. JR

      ... there's a company in China that makes knockoff purses.

    26. DT

      Yeah.

    27. JR

      And it's literally the same company in China that makes real purses for some of these companies.

    28. DT

      So fu- so funny.

    29. JR

      But they make their own versions of it, and it doesn't have the label, but it's exactly the same specifications, exactly the same cloth, exactly the same look-

    30. DT

      So funny

  18. 2:23:36 – 2:29:51

    Back from the bathroom: Hormuz choke points, energy motives, and the return to ‘missing scientists’

    1. JR

      Just in time for the war.

    2. DT

      Huh, what is going on? Did we go have a nuclear war yet?

    3. JR

      Not yet. Please say not yet.

    4. SP

      No.

    5. JR

      Good.

    6. DT

      Great. Great. That's where we're at, though.

    7. JR

      Yeah, we're at, it's, it's in, on the table.

    8. DT

      Well-

    9. JR

      Well, it was, there was some video of them, of some explosions at some nuclear weapons facility-

    10. DT

      Yeah

    11. JR

      ... in Iran.

    12. DT

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      Was that real?

    14. DT

      I, I don't know.

    15. JR

      I don't know either. 'Cause a lot of those, I see these videos and they get retwe- retweeted, and a lot of people comment, and then it says, "Grok, is this true?" They'll, "Nope, this was from 2021-

    16. DT

      Right

    17. JR

      ... in another country," and-

    18. DT

      I know

    19. JR

      ... this was from... Yeah.

    20. DT

      So you just don't, you don't know.

    21. JR

      Right.

    22. DT

      But, you know, the, the crazy thing, you know, now that we've all been getting this lesson in global ec- the global economy, maybe m- a lot of you, most of you probably already knew that the Strait of Hormuz was, like, some kind of femoral artery for oil.

    23. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    24. DT

      And, like, I just keep thinking, like, how, how's that gonna work out? Like, even if r- even if, like, they pull a rabbit out of their hat, Trump actually spins some amazing deal with Iran. Sh- I know we just blew up your whole government and everything, but they work it out somehow, or Iran, in some way, capitulates and... But I just don't understand how that part of the world doesn't c- always lead. As long, as long as the oil... Like, what is it? What's, what percentage of the oil supply goes through there? Isn't it, like, two-fifths of the world's oil supply goes through there? Uh, like, i- how-

    25. JR

      Is that what the number is?

    26. DT

      I don't know. Two-fifths, I think I pulled that out of my ass. I don't know what the number is.

    27. JR

      Sounds right.

    28. DT

      It's a lot. But it's like, how, how is it gonna work to have, like, any kind of instability around the fe- that femoral, the, whatever you wanna call it-

    29. JR

      Right

    30. DT

      ... the fucking jugular vein for oil on the planet? How, even if we get some kind of transient peace, like, isn't it always gonna just blow up again and again and again as long as one group of people can control whether or not oil flows through-

  19. 2:29:51 – 2:31:06

    Disclosure whiplash: Burchett skepticism, UAP video lists, Corbell footage, and Epstein as leverage

    1. JR

      Okay. D- are you skeptical at all of what he's saying? And here's the thing, one of the things that Bob Lazar said is that they give you a certain amount of disinformation, like, and he called it, I think he called it a, a button or a hook, so that if you relayed that information, people would know that it came from you. 'Cause they only told you one piece of this nonsense.

    2. DT

      Well, I, the-

    3. JR

      You know what I'm saying?

    4. DT

      Yeah, 'cause that's what the story Burchett says is like he w- the... It's always an appeal to authority. This guy was in the Air Force. This guy was-

    5. JR

      Right

    6. DT

      ... in the Navy.

    7. JR

      Right.

    8. DT

      He told me this, and then as he's walking out the door, he says, "It's real."

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. DT

      And yeah, you have to ask yourself, like, well, that's just one guy telling you that. But you also have to assume there isn't much... Maybe, maybe the world is in a place where there is some kind of political benefit from talking about aliens. But I don't see how that really benefits a politician.

    11. JR

      It does, 100%.

    12. DT

      You think it does?

    13. JR

      I, I, I disagree entirely.

    14. DT

      Oh, interesting.

    15. JR

      It makes me talk about him. I've been talking about him. Other people have been talking about him. People have been... You said, you know, like, "Thank God that he's doing this."

    16. DT

      Let's do the ultimate test. Jamie-

    17. JR

      Didn't you say he's brave or something like that?

    18. DT

      I did.

    19. JR

      Yeah, there you go.

    20. DT

      Jamie, can you look up and see if Tim Burchett has a book coming out?

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