Andy Stumpf on Joe Rogan: Why SEALs Still Drown in Training

Speaker 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

Speaker 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Speaker 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] Being a pacifist is the way. Avoid violence at all costs, you know what I mean, Joe?

Joe Rogan 0:15 Allegedly.

Speaker 0:16 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 0:16 Look at you, dog, you're a fucking author.

Speaker 0:18 Just take it easy. I'm not an author until tomorrow, technically. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 0:22 Oh. [laughs] No, you're an author once it's wr- I can read it, which makes you an author. I have a book in my hand-

Speaker 0:27 Yeah

Joe Rogan 0:27 ... which makes you an author.

Speaker 0:29 I tell you what, man, you had more of a, you had more of a hand in that book than you would think.

Joe Rogan 0:34 Really?

Speaker 0:35 Um, every... You know, before we started, I had you sign one of the copies because I'm gonna keep it for myself, and the people's names who associated themself with that, who took a chance on me in supporting me, they have just as much as hands as the monkey who may or may not have been sitting in front of the computer writing out the words very slowly.

Joe Rogan 0:53 Well, isn't that the case with everything in life, though? I mean-

Speaker 0:56 Yeah

Joe Rogan 0:56 ... it's, it's really who you know and, like, the people that you associate, associate with and what you learn from them, and their examples, with everything. And then there's no individuals that are responsible entirely for their own life.

Speaker 1:09 There are individuals, though, that would tell you that they are.

Joe Rogan 1:13 [laughs] Yeah, but you... Those are the, those are the people that I don't hang out with.

Speaker 1:17 Yeah. I can't, I can't suffer being in the presence of somebody who thinks that they had every idea and every right decision was theirs. Because I look at my own life, and one, I can't compete with that because my life is defined by its mistakes and idiotic things I've done. Uh, but two, I just, I don't get it. I'm a, I'm a product of the people who I was raised by, the people I was around, the people still in my life. I mean...

Joe Rogan 1:37 100%.

Speaker 1:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38 We all are. The... If you don't think that, you're delusional. The, if... You cannot have an exceptional person that's surrounded by dipshits. They, they just won't... Eventually they'll give in to dipshittery. It's contagious.

Speaker 1:53 Ne-

Joe Rogan 1:53 Negative, negative people-

Speaker 1:55 You really got me thinking, though, if that is possible. I'm trying to think of an example. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:57 Yeah, I probably shouldn't have said it's impossible. It could be possible, but it's very highly unlikely. And also-

Speaker 2:03 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:03 ... they didn't achieve their full potential if that's the case. They would've been even better-

Speaker 2:07 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:07 ... if they had been ex- surrounded by exceptional people.

Speaker 2:10 Improbable at best.

Joe Rogan 2:11 Yeah, at best.

Speaker 2:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:13 I, I've never seen an example of it. May- again, maybe one exists that I don't know about, but a- as far as all the exceptional people that I know, they all associate with other exceptional people.

Speaker 2:23 You know quite a few exceptional people. You have an interesting job that has a Venn diagram that is incredibly unique in the people you've been able to sit down with.

Joe Rogan 2:31 It's pretty fucking weird. It's-

Speaker 2:33 Did you ever think...

Joe Rogan 2:34 No.

Speaker 2:34 Uh, first off, by the way, I try to point as many people as possible to JRE number one, because I think it's a masterpiece.

Joe Rogan 2:39 [laughs] It's a good thing to see.

Speaker 2:41 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 2:41 'Cause it's terrible. [laughs]

Speaker 2:42 I'm like, "Wait for the snowflakes." And they go, "What the fuck are you talking about?" [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:46 [laughs] They're like, "What?"

Speaker 2:47 I'm like s- I'm like, "Just wait. It's amazing." And I mean, could you have ever thought, though, at JRE 1, where I feel like that was you on a, a laptop video c-

Joe Rogan 2:56 Yeah

Speaker 2:56 ... Yeah, 100%.

Joe Rogan 2:57 It was. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Speaker 2:58 And to where you are now, where you are, like, sitting down and talking to some of the most influential people on the face of planet Earth.

Joe Rogan 3:04 No. I mean, I mean, I think if I planned it out like that, it would've never worked. You know?

Speaker 3:09 You would've tried too hard, maybe?

Joe Rogan 3:10 I don't know what I would've done. I mean, I probably would've been more careful, which would've made it less fun, which would've made it less attractive. You know, I think, uh, the two things that I've done that are really important is not pay attention to much online talk about me, and just follow my interests and my instincts.

Speaker 3:31 Mm.

Joe Rogan 3:31 Like, I, I book the, the whole thing entirely on instinct. I look at, like, the, the, all the different suggestions that come in and all the different requests to be on the show, and I go, "No. Maybe. Huh? Why is that? Huh."

Speaker 3:45 Purely on self-interest?

Joe Rogan 3:46 100%.

Speaker 3:47 I think that's the way. What do you get per day, like, ballpark, people trying-

Joe Rogan 3:52 Oh

Speaker 3:52 ... to get on your show?

Joe Rogan 3:53 I don't even know because I have a really good guy that filters out a lot of them.

Speaker 3:56 I bet it's gotta be in the hundreds.

Joe Rogan 3:59 Yeah. No, I'm sure. Yeah. But he filters out a lot of them.

Speaker 4:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:02 And it gets down to, you know, like, what I... He, he knows me really well, and so he, you know, sends me-

Speaker 4:09 Yeah

Joe Rogan 4:10 ... like, some physicist is working on some new thing, some quantum thing, this, that, the other thing. Like, there's a new person that's doing this, and there's new research on that, and then there's-

Speaker 4:20 Yeah

Joe Rogan 4:20 ... that kind of shit.

Speaker 4:21 Yeah. I think the difference between you and me is I appreciate the fact you can hold a conversation with those people. I would be sitting there listening to them with, like, the scroll wheel on, on-

Joe Rogan 4:30 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 4:32 ... back. Like, do you have words that are smaller that could explain that to me? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 4:35 Well, some of them I have to really prepare for. Like, you know, if I have, like, a Brian Cox on or something like that, I'll really prepare. You know? Or, you know, there's been a few people over the, over time where I, I knew they were coming on, like, three months out, so I've, I've read a couple of their books. I watched a few of their lectures. I wa- you know?

Speaker 4:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:54 But then there's other ones, like, I could just hang out, hang out with them. You know, like Evan, Evan Hafer comes on. We just shoot the shit.

Speaker 5:01 Angry, small French painter.

Joe Rogan 5:04 [laughs]

Speaker 5:04 Fucking Green Berets. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 5:06 [laughs] He's the best. I love that dude.

Speaker 5:08 I was with him at the, uh, Montana grand opening, Montana Knife Company grand opening of their new HQ. It's... We've been on the road a bit. I think, like, two days ago. He's one of my favorite people. Absolutely. He's so wee-

Joe Rogan 5:19 Yeah

Speaker 5:19 ... but he's one of my favorite people.

Joe Rogan 5:20 He's an awesome human.

Speaker 5:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:22 A very unusual human being. And, you know, he's one of the ones that's suffering from that stupid fucking alpha gal bite. He's got that tick.

Speaker 5:30 Oh.

Joe Rogan 5:30 He got bit by that tick that makes you allergic to red meat.

Speaker 5:33 Is it all red meat or processed red meat?

Joe Rogan 5:35 It's animal meat. It's mammal meat. That's the thing. You could eat some fish. Some people can eat fish. Some people can eat chicken. He's broken it down to only eating eggs right now. That's how bad it is. He's getting all of his protein from eggs, which is a great source of protein, no doubt, but, um-

Speaker 5:53 That's exhaustingly boring, though.

Joe Rogan 5:55 Just go to dinner with him. It's crazy.The guy has to eat vegetables and eggs. That's all he can eat.

Speaker 6:00 God, I would just mock him incessantly to his face.

Joe Rogan 6:02 [laughs] I know you would.

Speaker 6:03 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 6:06 I take the opposite approach.

Speaker 6:06 Do you guys have a larger salad?

Joe Rogan 6:07 Yeah.

Speaker 6:08 No, I mean, I w- I would mock him that way 'cause I care for him so deeply. He is truly, like, one of my closest friends. He is ... He's an awesome dude.

Joe Rogan 6:15 Yeah, and so he's been battling this for a couple years now. So he, he got clear of it, and, uh, he was eating meat again, and he was fine, and he thought it was over, and then it came back.

Speaker 6:25 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 6:26 It came back with a vengeance. And it's, it's a weird fucking disease, because I've ... Let's find out. Put this into Perplexity. Uh, what, uh, what is the most, w- w- what is, as far as, like, the documented cases of this alpha-gal syndrome, when did it first, uh, start occurring in the United States? 'Cause I had never even heard about it until Evan. When he told me about it, I was like, "What? You got a ... Allergic to red meat?"

Speaker 6:55 And how can a tick bite cause that? I mean, Lyme disease is another one. Like, how does it do that?

Joe Rogan 7:00 Yeah.

Speaker 7:00 A bite from a tick just jacks up the human body that bad.

Joe Rogan 7:03 Well, apparently Lyme disease has existed. There's been forms of Lyme disease throughout history. But there's real solid evidence that Lyme disease, which is named Lyme disease because of Lyme, Connecticut, is related to Plum Island, where they were doing bioweapons research on ticks.

Speaker 7:21 It's a historically good idea.

Joe Rogan 7:22 And it's right there.

Speaker 7:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:23 It's, like, literally right there. And then the, the, the prevalence of Lyme disease on the East Coast is fucking outrageous. It's outrageous how many ticks carry this fucking thing.

Speaker 7:33 That's not good.

Joe Rogan 7:33 I know so many people that have Lyme disease.

Speaker 7:36 And that's a lifelong one too, right? Like, you're not getting off that train if you-

Joe Rogan 7:39 Well, you can-

Speaker 7:39 You, you can manage the symptoms.

Joe Rogan 7:40 You can cure it.

Speaker 7:41 Okay.

Joe Rogan 7:41 You can cure it. People have cured it, and they've particularly cured it if they get on antibiotics very quickly. So, um, one of the thing, weird things about Lyme disease is it, the bite has, like, a little target around it. It's weird.

Speaker 7:53 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 7:53 It's like, it, uh, it almost looks like a bullseye because the infection, as it grows, there's a red circle around the bite. And if that's ... And, but that goes away within a few days.

Speaker 8:02 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 8:02 But if that's recognized, you bring it to a doctor, they get you on antibiotics, you can actually get off of it, depending on the severity of your case, obviously. So here it is. Alpha-gal syndrome appeared to have first emerged in the US in the late 1980s, but was not recognized as a distinct sh- tick-related meat allergy until the early 2000s. So in '89, clinicians in Georgia l- uh, collected about 10 cases of delayed allergic reactions to mammalian meat. Mammalian? Mammalian. Mammalian meat, and linked them to prior tick bites, but these observations were not widely recognized at the time. Allergy was first formally identified as originating from tick bites in the US by Thomas Platts Mills in the early 2000s. Reports note this discovery process beginning around 2002 and becoming clear by 2007. Huh. So the m- in the medical literature, it's first described in 2009 when published work documented patients with delayed reactions to red meat and linked them to IgE, uh, against alpha-gal. Interesting. So it seems like it's in the '80s, but really started-

Speaker 9:09 Hmm

Joe Rogan 9:09 ... being recognized in the 2000s.

Speaker 9:11 Explain... I mean, he has definitely, he's slendered down quite a bit.

Joe Rogan 9:15 Yeah. I mean, he's lost, I think he lost 10 pounds.

Speaker 9:17 I'm pretty sure he was wearing his wife's pants at the MKC event.

Joe Rogan 9:20 [laughs]

Speaker 9:20 They were very tight. Very tight. Unacceptably tight.

Joe Rogan 9:24 [laughs]

Speaker 9:24 But that could be a benefit. If you're the same size as your wife and you have just one wardrobe, I'm here for it.

Joe Rogan 9:28 That's nice. Yeah.

Speaker 9:29 Yeah. It's efficiency.

Joe Rogan 9:30 Some of their shoes, though, are really hard to walk around in.

Speaker 9:32 [sighs] I mean, you gotta commit.

Joe Rogan 9:34 Yeah. I would imagine.

Speaker 9:35 I mean, if, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:36 When I go places with my wife and I'm like, "What are you doing?

Speaker 9:39 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 9:39 You can't walk. This is a crazy thing you're doing."

Speaker 9:42 It's not for walking.

Joe Rogan 9:42 "For fashion."

Speaker 9:43 It's for-

Joe Rogan 9:44 Yeah

Speaker 9:44 ... what my daughter would call the steez, which I think means style.

Joe Rogan 9:47 Ooh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 9:48 I didn't know-

Joe Rogan 9:48 It's a new word?

Speaker 9:48 I'm actually not sure that I'm using it correctly. She just teaches me words, and I throw them out at random times.

Joe Rogan 9:53 Hmm.

Speaker 9:53 But I think-

Joe Rogan 9:53 I learn a lot from my kids

Speaker 9:54 ... steez means style, I think.

Joe Rogan 9:55 Hmm.

Speaker 9:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:56 Steez.

Speaker 9:57 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:57 Okay. Did you know about that one, Jamie? The steez?

Speaker 10:00 Uh, I probably have heard it. I don't know. It's not-

Speaker 10:02 I have never heard it-

Joe Rogan 10:02 Not until this moment.

Speaker 10:03 There you go

Joe Rogan 10:03 ... at least I don't believe so.

Speaker 10:05 The steez.

Joe Rogan 10:06 Yeah.

Speaker 10:06 Feel free to use it however you want. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 10:08 Yeah, chicks wear stuff that they're so vulnerable in. You can only take steps that are less than 24 inches wide.

Speaker 10:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:14 'Cause you've got a dress that's, like, clinging to your knees, which is very odd. Like, it's, like, tight all around here, so you've got these, like, short steps, and then the bottoms of your shoes are slippery.

Speaker 10:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:26 And then your heels are elevated, and then the, the heel has a point to it.

Speaker 10:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:31 So it gets stuck in the grass.

Speaker 10:32 Just waiting to snap at the most inopportune moment.

Joe Rogan 10:35 It's the dumbest shit of all time, and they're fucking crazy expensive. The whole thing makes no sense. Like, what are they doing?

Speaker 10:41 They're trying to look good for us, Joe.

Joe Rogan 10:42 But they look good already. That's what they don't understand. I think they're looking good for themselves.

Speaker 10:46 [sighs]

Joe Rogan 10:46 I think they look good without that shit.

Speaker 10:49 I would agree.

Joe Rogan 10:50 Uh, yeah. A hot chick in flip-flops, no one's going, "God, I wish she was wearing some shoes that you couldn't walk around in."

Speaker 10:55 She might even be more approachable if she was in flip-flops because you'd be like-

Joe Rogan 10:58 Hmm

Speaker 10:59 ... she's, like, maybe more down to earth.

Joe Rogan 11:02 Maybe that's what they're going for. They're going for not approachable. Trying to keep the fucking-

Speaker 11:07 Doesn't that defeat the overall end, uh, like, long end around purpose?

Joe Rogan 11:10 No. You're trying to get dudes that are, you know, willing to take a chance, you know?

Speaker 11:17 On, on what?

Joe Rogan 11:17 On a gal that's unapproachable. Like, you have enough confidence in yourself that you'll step up to an unapproachable gal.

Speaker 11:25 Nope. Not me. Hard pass.

Joe Rogan 11:26 [laughs]

Speaker 11:28 Hard pass.

Joe Rogan 11:29 Too much work.

Speaker 11:30 I'm willing to do some things that people think are odd, but yeah, I'm hard, that's a hard pass.

Joe Rogan 11:34 Yeah.

Speaker 11:34 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 11:34 I know. But it also is like y- you're not, you're in line. There's a lot of other dudes approaching that too.

Speaker 11:39 Probably.

Joe Rogan 11:40 So now then it's like a, you're in an audition process.

Speaker 11:44 Fuck all of that.

Joe Rogan 11:45 Boring.

Speaker 11:46 Yeah. Life is way too short for all that.

Joe Rogan 11:48 It's, it's great for people who don't have anything else to do, if that's all you wanna do.

Speaker 11:53 [sighs] Nope.

Joe Rogan 11:54 Yeah.

Speaker 11:55 No.

Joe Rogan 11:55 Not my interest in anything.

Speaker 11:56 Same. There's way too much other exciting shit out there.

Joe Rogan 11:59 Yeah. But yeah, if you and your wife wore all the same clothes, that would be an issue.

Speaker 12:03 A good issue or bad? I mean, if you're limited on time, we're gonna, we're gonna go on a trip, let's just bring a pair of pants. We'll switch.

Joe Rogan 12:09 I, I wonder what people did in the caveman days.

Speaker 12:12 I don't think they were wearing much.

Joe Rogan 12:14 Right. But you're wearing, like, some kind of animal skins. It's basically a one-size-fits-all-

Speaker 12:20 Yeah

Joe Rogan 12:20 ... tarp-

Speaker 12:21 Loincloth

Joe Rogan 12:21 ... that you throw over yourself.

Speaker 12:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:23 Yeah. Loincloth to keep your dick from getting caught in thorns, and then a tarp.

Speaker 12:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:29 Yeah.

Speaker 12:30 Cutting edge at the time.

Joe Rogan 12:31 I was reading this story about these guys that were like s- exceptional marathon runners in, uh, in c- Africa, and one of the things that they did is this insane fucking rites of passage where they would circumcise them w-w-with this ... I don't remember the process, but it was a particularly brutal process. They slice the tip of their dick off. And then they would make them literally crawl through thorns.

Speaker 12:55 What the [laughs]

Joe Rogan 12:56 Yeah. Like, the whole idea is just, like, make you as hard as humanly possible, and these guys, they were pointing to this one tribe as developing exceptional marathon runners because these guys had such high pain tolerance and such, like, willingness to go through horrific ordeals.

Speaker 13:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:17 What is it? Here it is. Initiation. Okay. Um, so it says he had to crawl mostly naked through a tunnel of African stinging nettles. Then he was beaten on the bony parts of his ankle. Then his knuckles were squeezed together, and then the formic acid from the stinging nettle was wiped onto his genitals. But that was all just a warm-up. Early one morning, he was circumcised with a sharp stick. That's what it is. A stick. Stick! During this whole process, the crawling, the beatings, and the cuttings... Try to say that guy's name.

Speaker 13:48 No.

Joe Rogan 13:49 Kip-go-

Speaker 13:50 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 13:50 Y- Kip-go-guy.

Speaker 13:52 Kipgogi?

Joe Rogan 13:52 Kipgo-guy. Kipgogi. Was obl- Sounds like a Korean dish. Was, uh, obliged to be absolutely stoical, unflinching. He could not make a sound. Indeed, in some of the versions of the ceremony, mud is caked on the face, and then mud is allowed to dry. If a crack appears in the mud, your cheek may twitch, your forehead may crimple, crinkle. You get labeled a kibetete, a coward. You get, you labeled a coward if your cheek crinkles, and stigmatized by the whole community. Manners say that this is enormous social pressure placed on your ability to endure pain and is actually great training for a sport like running, where pushing through pain is so fundamental to success. Circumcisions, he says, teaches kids to withstand pressure and tolerate pain. Manner says he thinks there's distinct advantage conferred on athletic kids who grow up in a pain-embracing society as opposed to Western pain-avoiding one. Interesting.

Speaker 14:52 Yeah, this is-

Joe Rogan 14:52 What is this t- Where is this at? In, in Kenya?

Speaker 14:55 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:55 It's a Kenyan tribe? Yeah.

Speaker 14:59 I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you, Joe.

Joe Rogan 15:00 Yeah, Kenya.

Speaker 15:01 If that's what they did to your people, I would run pretty goddamn fast, too, because I would wanna get the hell out of there.

Joe Rogan 15:07 Yeah. I, I think it's that, but I just think, you know, you're joking obviously, but imagine if that's the norm, if that's your baseline. You're, like, accustomed to ... That, that's the worst thing that you go through, and you have to do it completely stoic.

Speaker 15:22 At a young age.

Joe Rogan 15:23 At a young age. You would develop some insane tolerance to discomfort, which-

Speaker 15:28 I don't know if one time is enough, though. I mean, like, what they're describing is horrendous.

Joe Rogan 15:31 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 15:32 But true tolerance and resilience and ability to work through that stuff, I don't think it's a singular event.

Joe Rogan 15:36 Right. Right.

Speaker 15:37 Not that marathon running is, uh, an easy endeavor by any stretch, so they're continuing to do that. I mean, I get what they're doing, that rite of passage, but holy hell. I mean-

Joe Rogan 15:46 Mm-hmm

Speaker 15:47 ... that's pretty gnarly.

Joe Rogan 15:48 That's the thing that you, you will see from ex-fighters and even ex-military guys. Like, what they endured when they were young was so brutal that as they get older, they avoid any discomfort at all. They get fat, and they just wanna drink and be lazy, and you're like, how did you go from being that fucking beast to this slob? And, you know, they still, in their mind, they're still a beast, you know, because, "I did this, and I was a world champion," and, like, like, a big fucking belly.

Speaker 16:16 Yeah, they can't see their dick when they're naked anymore.

Joe Rogan 16:18 Weird.

Speaker 16:19 Uh, it's ... I don't have any stats on how common that is.

Joe Rogan 16:22 But it, but you're s- But it's because they stop doing it.

Speaker 16:25 Correct.

Joe Rogan 16:25 Right.

Speaker 16:26 I mean, laziness affects everybody, right?

Joe Rogan 16:27 Yeah.

Speaker 16:27 Everybody thinks that you come from the special operations world and you're defined by discipline for the rest of your life. No, you're, you're still a human being at the end of the day-

Joe Rogan 16:34 Oh

Speaker 16:34 ... behind the curtain. And, you know, gravity wants to keep guys like that on the couch just as much as everybody else.

Joe Rogan 16:39 Yeah.

Speaker 16:40 But I think you realize the utility of not allowing that to happen.

Joe Rogan 16:43 Some people do.

Speaker 16:44 Some people do. But I mean, that's true of every occupation in life.

Joe Rogan 16:47 Sure.

Speaker 16:47 You know?

Joe Rogan 16:47 Yep. Yep.

Speaker 16:48 Maybe it's a little bit more uncommon for people to see those that came from that, o-one of those occupations, but yeah, they're out there.

Joe Rogan 16:54 Yeah, I think that's probably in everything. In the medical world, I'm sure there's guys that, like, really paid attention in college-

Speaker 17:01 Yeah

Joe Rogan 17:01 ... and then they're kinda half-assing it as doctors.

Speaker 17:04 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 17:05 Yeah. It's like the difficulty of the grind, sometimes you get through it, and then you just go, "I don't wanna ever fucking do that again." Like, I know guys who are former Navy SEALs will not get in a fucking ice bath because they're cold.

Speaker 17:18 Yeah, I'm one of those. Hi. Nice to meet you.

Joe Rogan 17:20 [laughs]

Speaker 17:20 Why would I consensually do that? [clears throat] No. N-no. And I also-

Joe Rogan 17:25 [laughs]

Speaker 17:26 ... wish that they could make a sauna that was just room temperature but had all the health benefits.

Joe Rogan 17:31 [laughs] See, sauna doesn't bother me at all.

Speaker 17:33 I can tolerate that one way more than exceptionally cold water, which-

Joe Rogan 17:36 Yeah

Speaker 17:37 ... it's, I understand the health benefit. I'm willing to pass on that particular health benefit to have... It's emotional for me. I just don't wanna do that anymore.

Joe Rogan 17:44 I get it.

Speaker 17:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:45 I get it. But what, when I get to the cold plunge, there's a f- the bitch in me is so loud. But when I get to the sauna, there's no bitch. It's like, just get in. It's like, I know it's gonna suck.

Speaker 17:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:57 About 20 minutes in, it'll suck. For the last five minutes-

Speaker 18:00 Yeah

Joe Rogan 18:00 ... it's really gonna suck. But the first 10 is easy.

Speaker 18:03 I just high-five my inner bitch at the cold plunge and turn around. [laughs] Like, why don't you take a lap in that thing? I'm done with it.

Joe Rogan 18:10 I almost don't do it every day. Every day I almost don't do it.

Speaker 18:14 Yeah. It's harder emotionally than it is physically, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 18:18 It's weird because after a minute it's not that bad. W- after one minute it's like you just kind of, you develop, like, sort of a relaxation and you're cool.

Speaker 18:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:27 It's fine, especially if you do it a lot. But the first 10, 15 seconds, you're just like, "What am I doing?" You just wanna get out. You just wanna quit. Like, "Get me the fuck out of this 34-degree water with ice up to my neck. Fuck this. This is so stupid. I don't have to do th-

Speaker 18:46 Yeah, you feel like you're having a heart attack.

Joe Rogan 18:47 But then you just chill, and then when you get out, you're like, "Ahhh." You feel so good. It's so worth it.

Speaker 18:54 Or-

Joe Rogan 18:55 Don't do it

Speaker 18:55 ... just leave it empty. [both laughing] Use it to store tennis balls or something other than ice cold water.

Joe Rogan 19:01 This episode is brought to you by ARMRA. Every week there's some new wellness hack that people swear by, and after a while you start thinking, "Why do we think we can just outsmart our bodies?" That's why ARMRA colostrum caught my attention. It's something the body already recognizes and it has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff, immunity, metabolism, et cetera. I first noticed it working around training, especially workout recovery. Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this. If you want to try, ARMRA is offering my listeners 30% off plus two free gifts. Go to armra.com/rogan. Apparently there's real data that it's harder for women. It's harder for women to tolerate extreme cold weather.

Speaker 19:45 Huh.

Joe Rogan 19:45 Cold temperatures in water, apparently.

Speaker 19:47 Interesting. I don't know why that is.

Joe Rogan 19:49 Yeah. They even recommend, like, women's cold plunges be slightly warmer than men's.

Speaker 19:54 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:54 You know? I don't know what that's about.

Speaker 19:57 Yeah, why that would be.

Joe Rogan 19:59 I don't know. Something about their physiology that it might actually be detrimental to do 34 degrees, that... See if you can find any data on that. You know who's a r- great, uh, what's her name? Susanne Sobey. She's the one who created the Sobey principle. She's one Huberman cites all the time. Um, but I think there's something to d- maybe it's less muscle mass. You know, your body has a m- more difficult time heating itself up and st- you know, creating a thermal barrier. I don't know.

Speaker 20:27 Huberman is an example of a guy that I deeply respect but struggle to understand what he's saying.

Joe Rogan 20:32 [laughs] Here it is. Uh, is this Susanne's? Did you put this in Perplexity?

Speaker 20:36 No, no, I put it in Perplexity just to ask what the-

Joe Rogan 20:37 Our wonderful AI sponsor, Perplexity. "Specific condit- considerations for women. Women tend to vasoconstrict faster and have larger drops in core temperature."

Speaker 20:47 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 20:48 Aha. "Especially those in..." I don't know what that is. "Luteal phase."

Speaker 20:52 It's... Yeah, their, uh, cycle.

Joe Rogan 20:54 The cycle. Oh. Uh, "When progesterone is higher, so extreme cold could be more stressful. Very cold plunges near ice, 35 to 45 degrees, can cause big symptom, sympathetic and cortisol spikes that may disrupt menstrual regularity and thyroid function if overused." Oh, interesting. "Animal and limited human data suggests cold can influence reproductive hormones and cycles. Women with heavy cramps, endro- [clears throat] endometriosis, uh, fibroids, and/or on, uh, HRT contraception should be cautious and talk with a clinician first." Good luck finding a fucking clinician that understands cold plunges, though.

Speaker 21:36 And there's a picture of me in the lower right.

Joe Rogan 21:37 Ah! [both laughing]

Speaker 21:40 That's probably what I look like when I get my toe in... I just don't like it, man.

Joe Rogan 21:42 Don't do it. You don't have to.

Speaker 21:43 Hydrophobic, I think is the correct term.

Joe Rogan 21:45 You suffer enough. You suffer enough. Um, so this book-

Speaker 21:50 Yes, I-

Joe Rogan 21:50 ... the title is Drownproof.

Speaker 21:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:52 And you were saying before we got started, um, how many Navy SEALs wind up drowning.

Speaker 21:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:58 And, uh, that it's actually kind of shocking.

Speaker 22:01 It would be for a community that is supposed to have their roots in a maritime environment. I mean, the SEAL community draws its origins from the UDTs, and the Scouts, and Raiders, and honestly up until 9/11 it was one foot in the water and one foot on land. Like, every operation would start in the water and then you could go onto the land, but you'd probably go back into the water, and almost all the training we did, 9/11, was based around water. Um, and I think... Let's see. Jamie, you could look this up. Uh, two SEALs recently drowned on a ship boarding, a real world ship boarding. Uh, one guy, it seems like in the climb peeled off the ladder and went into the water, and somebody saw him and went in with him because of the concept of being a swim buddy, never to be seen again.

Joe Rogan 22:45 Ooh.

Speaker 22:45 Yeah. Um, and they-

Joe Rogan 22:46 Do they know what ha- what happened to them? Like how?

Speaker 22:49 I mean, it's, uh... [sighs] Yeah, 2024 in the Arabian Sea. Uh-

Joe Rogan 22:54 Oh, so he fell off a ship?

Speaker 22:56 Yeah, they... So they were approaching a vessel. I mean, there's a couple ways that you can get on a boat. You can come from a boat and you can climb up, or you can go to from a helicopter and fast rope down, or they could land depending on how big the boat is. So they were coming up alongside, it's called an underway or a VBSS, visit, board, search, and seizure is the technical military term for it, and on the climb up the ladder, um, the guy peeled off, fell off the ladder, and another one went in with him as his swim buddy. If they immediately... And there was, and it maybe still is an ongoing investigation. From my understanding, they saw their head maybe one time up and then they were gone. Their bodies were never recovered. So that would seem to be that they were wearing negatively buoyant equipment, so they were drug down and they probably were not able to activate their, uh, life jackets in time, which is super unfortunate, but the water doesn't give a shit who you are and how much of a badass you are. I think it's one of the most gnarly environments on earth.

Joe Rogan 23:51 It really is.

Speaker 23:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:52 Every time I go in the ocean and I swim in the ocean, there's this feeling like I think I can make it to shore, but I might not be able to. Like, if you jump off of a boat and you've got, like, a couple of hundred yards to shore-

Speaker 24:06 Yeah

Joe Rogan 24:07 ... as you start swimming, you start swimming like, "I'm fine. I'm fine."Oh boy, my heart is going pretty fast here.

Speaker 24:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:14 I'm breathing pretty heavy. That's a long way. I'm moving very slowly.

Speaker 24:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:20 Like, what if I can't do this?

Speaker 24:22 These are real positive thoughts to have mid- mid-swim here, Joe.

Joe Rogan 24:25 Yeah.

Speaker 24:25 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 24:25 Not good. Not good. Yeah. It's only happened to me a few times, but-

Speaker 24:30 Yeah

Joe Rogan 24:30 ... you know, my friend Greg actually had to save a woman. He was on vacation, and he saw a woman getting caught in the tide, and she was getting pulled out, and-

Speaker 24:36 Oh, like a riptide?

Joe Rogan 24:37 Uh-huh. And-

Speaker 24:38 They never... Those things will pull people out, never to be seen again.

Joe Rogan 24:41 Yeah.

Speaker 24:41 People don't... So I live up in northwestern Montana, and a lot of the Flathead Lake, the largest freshwater lake west of the Mississippi, is right where I live. And Glacier National Park, tons of snowfall, and so it's glacially fed rivers that feed into Flathead National Forest. Or not in Flathead National Forest, the Flathead Lake. And boating is a huge summertime activity. And it... People come, travel from all over the world to come to Montana to see GNP, Glacier National Park, and every year, people are drowning in these rivers. And I don't know, uh, it's dangerous, but it can be avoided, but it seems as if they just do not have respect for even medium-moving water. They have no, no exposure to it. They're not used to be inning, to being in that water, and they don't look at it and realize like, "That'll kill me-"

Joe Rogan 25:28 Right

Speaker 25:29 ... so incredibly fast. And every year, people are going into that thing and dying, every year.

Joe Rogan 25:33 Well, it makes sense also that it's so fucking cold. That water is... You got glacier-

Speaker 25:39 Yeah

Joe Rogan 25:39 ... streams.

Speaker 25:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:40 It's like Remy rescued a lady from that. You know Remy Morgan?

Speaker 25:44 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:44 Yeah. Remy actually saw a boat, uh, that had capsized and saw, like, gear floating by and saw a woman that was struggling. And I believe her partner died. No, I'm sure her partner died.

Speaker 25:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:57 And, and he jumped in a freezing cold river and rescued her, and he was like, "There's a bunch of moments during there," and was like, "I am not going to make it. I'm gonna die trying to save this lady."

Speaker 26:07 Which happens. When people get close to that point, y- you, they're going to, in your best attempt to save them, they will try to use you as a life raft.

Joe Rogan 26:15 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 26:15 They will climb all over you, and the next thing you know, two people are gone instead of one.

Joe Rogan 26:18 Right, right.

Speaker 26:19 Yeah, the water, the water will eat your lunch, man. It's, it's wild. But you would think, you, we spend so much time training in the water that it wouldn't happen. There's, I mean, there's diving accidents. There is, there are, uh, deaths in training. Um-

Joe Rogan 26:31 How often does that occur, deaths in training?

Speaker 26:34 Oh, probably about every five years. And, uh, it sucks, and what I'm about to say, people won't understand, but I also think it's essential. I don't want it to happen, but I think it probably is essential that it does every once in a while.

Joe Rogan 26:51 Because the training has to be so difficult that you get to the brink.

Speaker 26:54 You have to train people for the job that they're gonna be asked to do.

Joe Rogan 26:58 Right.

Speaker 26:58 And the training standards need to be a directly downstream reflection of what the career is going to be. And I, and I, and I, I don't have the vocabulary to describe how bad I feel for the families, and I'm, and, you know, I'm not trying to minimize anybody's death. But you will lose more people in the real world execution of the job if you don't make training that difficult than you will by making it that dangerous, knowing that it's gonna be that dangerous and that people will die, that will have a positive impact on people surviving the actual job itself.

Joe Rogan 27:30 That completely makes sense. Um, that's just the realities of life.

Speaker 27:35 Yeah. Some jobs are very unique, and some jobs have very unique requirements, and you have to train for that. Or it's, it's gonna, it's gonna either come for you on the, the front end of that or the, or the tail end of that. That's the balance of which one of those are you gonna focus on.

Joe Rogan 27:47 Which is why the lowering of standards is so fucking dangerous. And when it's talked about, like the lowering of standards to make it fair for some applicants, like there's no fair in that job.

Speaker 28:01 I've never seen a bullet change trajectory because, uh, it noticed what you had between your legs and wanted to go be more fair and equitable to somebody else.

Joe Rogan 28:09 Yeah.

Speaker 28:10 It's, it doesn't matter in those moments.

Joe Rogan 28:12 Nor does the ocean give a fuck-

Speaker 28:14 No

Joe Rogan 28:14 ... period.

Speaker 28:16 No, I don't believe it does. Nope. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 28:18 It does not give a fuck. But it's, it's so weird when we, we try to apply these workplace equity considerations to something that's as... Like lit... I can't think of a job that requires more of you than war. Like there is, there's, this is literal life or death and taking life. There's no, there's no job that requires more of you. And so you would just automatically assume the standards, especially for special operations guys, have to be the most stringent possible. You have to weed out all the bitches. Like you can't have any bitch in you at all. There's gotta be none. No quit, no nothing, and that's, there's only one way to do that. It has to, you have to make a bunch of people quit.

Speaker 29:02 A lot of the times, the people who are bottom-lining the policy changes don't have a direct impact in the training pipeline themself or the execution of the job.

Joe Rogan 29:09 Which is crazy.

Speaker 29:09 Yeah. I mean, it, the military's a bureaucratic system. Even in the special operations world, even at like the JSOC level, [laughs] people would be... It never, never really makes the movie, the amount of paperwork that you end up doing. Like you go on a trip, and you have to collect your receipts and do your travel claim and all this other BS. It's all just shit blowing up, and, you know, you throw a grenade, and it's a fireball the size of a 55-gallon drum of gasoline. And yeah, and then there's two days sitting in front of a computer typing out all of your administrative stuff because of all the bureaucratic restraints that are still involved in all of that. It's-

Joe Rogan 29:39 That doesn't seem smart.

Speaker 29:41 Uh, it's just the way the military system works.

Joe Rogan 29:43 Now, is that to somehow or another mitigate potential actions that should not have been done because you have to be so documented? E- everything has to be so laid out? Like-

Speaker 29:56 I mean, there's a lot of, even like the equipment that you wear, oftentimes, well, almost all of it is gonna be serialized, so you are issued that equipment. You're responsible for it. There's paperwork that goes for being issued that if you lose it, which does happen, and it's not gonna be career-ending. Like if, if you went out for a week in a row, and you're like, "Hey, I, uh, I lost my night vision goggles again. I'm gonna need another set of those," you might have a problem. Uh, but shit happens, and people lose gear. But, you know, night vision, weapons, ordnance, ammunition, like a lot of that stuff is serialized, and so it's just the bureaucratic way that even at that level, you still have to keep track of all of that stuff.

Joe Rogan 30:29 You would think they should hire somebody else to do that

Speaker 30:31 They do, but oftentimes you are in small units, very isolated by yourself, and so you still have to main- Like even in the middle of nowhere, you still [laughs] have to maintain the paperwork aspect of all the stuff that you take with you

Joe Rogan 30:43 God, that's kinda crazy.

Speaker 30:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:45 That seems like an unnecessary distraction to an already very insanely difficult job

Speaker 30:50 I mean, I'm not saying we do the paperwork well

Joe Rogan 30:53 [laughs]

Speaker 30:54 [laughs] I mean, come on, Joe. There's a reason why the DOD has never passed an audit, but I mean-

Joe Rogan 30:58 Ever. [laughs] God, I know. The Pentagon, like how many years in a row has the Pentagon failed their audits?

Speaker 31:05 Like 700. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 31:07 [laughs] It really is kinda bonkers.

Speaker 31:10 I believe the Marine Corps-

Joe Rogan 31:11 Yeah

Speaker 31:11 ... is the only branch of the military that has ever actually done a legitimate audit and passed.

Joe Rogan 31:15 Really?

Speaker 31:16 Those guys are tightened up, man. Those guys... God, I love Marines. They are the best.

Joe Rogan 31:20 Shout out to the Marines.

Speaker 31:21 They are the best, man.

Joe Rogan 31:22 Wow.

Speaker 31:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:23 They're the only guys who pass the audits. That's crazy.

Speaker 31:26 Yeah. Yeah. The rest of us are just out there like, "Pfft, I think I got it with me."

Joe Rogan 31:32 But th- the problem with that is once you don't pass audits and there's a history of you not only not passing audits, but not being punished for not passing audits, that opens up the door. No-

Speaker 31:45 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 31:45 ... the Pentagon has never passed, never passed a full, clean, department-wide financial audit of, as of the latest audits. Defense Department is the only one of 24 major federal agencies that has never passed a full financial audit.

Speaker 32:00 Hell yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 32:02 [laughs] So it's only been going on since 2018, so no big deal, guys. It's only eight years.

Speaker 32:08 Yeah, that's only a few trillion dollars.

Joe Rogan 32:10 Whatever. Whatever. It's fake money anyway. They just make it. Uh, that's pretty crazy.

Speaker 32:16 Well, the budget is interesting in the military, so they go off a fiscal year from October 1st. And-

Joe Rogan 32:22 Okay, this... Hold up. Let's look at this statistic.

Speaker 32:25 Where we at?

Joe Rogan 32:25 The Pentagon's own audit materials have pointed to a target of around 2028 financial year to achieve, to finally achieve a clean, department-wide audit, contingent on fixing longstanding accounting and systems problems. Imagine if, like, the, the IRS calls you up and says, "Andy, uh, you didn't pass your audit." You go, "I think I can get it in 2028."

Speaker 32:46 I'm on a lower trajectory towards this target you wanna be at. You want me like this, I'm like this.

Joe Rogan 32:52 I can get there in about two years.

Speaker 32:54 [laughs] Yeah, they're like-

Joe Rogan 32:55 Okay

Speaker 32:56 They're like, "No pro-"

Joe Rogan 32:56 That's reasonable.

Speaker 32:57 "Let's just take all your money between now and then."

Joe Rogan 32:59 Wow.

Speaker 32:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:59 God, no. We don't need to do that. Let's give you a bigger budget to work with.

Speaker 33:03 I wonder if that, uh, answer takes into account what's going on currently in the world, because I feel like we're running through some inventory that might have to be tabulated.

Joe Rogan 33:10 Seems like there's probably a lot of, uh, ordinance that's been-

Speaker 33:14 Yeah. A lot of it does sit around for a while, so there is an argument to expending it. I am not in any way, shape, or form-

Joe Rogan 33:19 It could go bad. It's like tomatoes. You gotta eat them.

Speaker 33:22 Not exactly like tomatoes. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 33:26 [laughs]

Speaker 33:26 I suppose a grenade is slightly tomato shaped, but- [laughs]

Joe Rogan 33:30 [laughs]

Speaker 33:30 A JDAM looks nothing like a tomato.

Joe Rogan 33:32 What do they d- What... I mean, just, I don't know if this has ever happened. What, what do they do if th... whether, whether it's missiles or a- any weapons have been sitting around too long-

Speaker 33:42 Yeah

Joe Rogan 33:43 ... and you... Is there an expiration date?

Speaker 33:46 There probably is. And, uh, I mean, I've been there when we have literally burned, like, rifle ammunition, large stockpiles of rifle ammunition.

Joe Rogan 33:54 Really?

Speaker 33:55 Yeah. It's-

Joe Rogan 33:55 Because if it's sitting around too long, there comes the possibility that it's no longer effective?

Speaker 34:01 Uh, man, this was a while ago. I think it was more that once we got issued it, we were expected to expend it all, so we were not allowed to take it back to base with us. So we were-

Joe Rogan 34:09 Oh, that's hilarious.

Speaker 34:10 Oh, you want-

Joe Rogan 34:10 That's even dumber. [laughs]

Speaker 34:12 You want, you want some funny stories? Talk to Evan sometime. I bet you he's had this experience. So there's a, uh, a weapon called the Carl Gustaf that if you shoot too many of these things, it's in the manual, it'll start separating the lining in your lungs from your body because you're just... It is just this massive projectile. And you'll go out and do these training evolutions, and they'll say, they, they... Yeah, here we are, the Carl G. Do not stand behind this bad boy when it goes off.

Joe Rogan 34:39 So how many can you shoot before it separates the linings of your lungs?

Speaker 34:43 I believe the warning is somewhere around six.

Joe Rogan 34:46 [laughs] Jesus Christ.

Speaker 34:48 Oh, Joe, you'll go out to training evolutions, and there'll be five guys, and there's a pallet of ammunition, and they'll say, "You're not leaving here until all these are shot."

Joe Rogan 34:55 Oh, my God.

Speaker 34:56 And you're, you're cracking off Carl Gs until you have a nosebleed. Or you'll go out, they have, like, LAW rockets or, uh, you know, uh, when I first went through, it was M60 ammo. They're like, "Yeah, but you guys, the training's not over until you guys shoot all this." But, like, yeah, but we totally did everything we're supposed to. And we're, "Yeah, we understand that, but just go ahead and lay down on the line and shoot these thousands of rounds of ammunition at, at whatever you want to because it's been issued to you, so now you need to go expend it."

Joe Rogan 35:22 [exhales] Can you show me one of those things going off, Jamie?

Speaker 35:25 Oh.

Joe Rogan 35:26 Carl Gs. I wanna see what, what it looks like.

Speaker 35:30 I tried to talk my wife into naming our next dog Carl G.

Joe Rogan 35:33 [exhales] I shot a .50 caliber once, and I was like-

Speaker 35:36 Like a Barrett?

Joe Rogan 35:37 Yeah.

Speaker 35:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:37 I was like-

Speaker 35:38 How'd that feel?

Joe Rogan 35:39 Boom. [laughs]

Speaker 35:40 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 35:40 Like, your whole body just goes boom.

Speaker 35:43 Yeah. So this is a two-man evolution here. Look at the size of that bad boy.

Joe Rogan 35:47 Holy shit.

Speaker 35:48 Close it. Lock it. He's checking the back blast. This guy's like, "Fuck, I'm about to lose my teeth."

Joe Rogan 35:57 Here we go. Oh, did he shoot it?

Speaker 35:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:59 Oh, I didn't see it.

Speaker 36:00 It's supposed to be essentially recoilless. It doesn't feel like-

Joe Rogan 36:03 Well, why didn't they show it?

Speaker 36:04 Uh, they did.

Joe Rogan 36:05 Well, show it again.

Speaker 36:06 Yeah.

Speaker 36:06 It's, that's, that's the, uh, back blast right there.

Joe Rogan 36:08 Oh.

Speaker 36:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:09 So he doesn't even move.

Speaker 36:10 Yeah.

Speaker 36:11 Oh, when he was pulling the trigger, that wasn't loaded. That was a fake shot of him showing how you pull the trigger. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 36:16 Oh.

Speaker 36:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:17 Okay.

Speaker 36:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:18 Let, we'll, we'll see if there's more video. I just want a better shot of it actually going off in his arms. Let me see what it looks like.

Speaker 36:25 Ready for fire.

Joe Rogan 36:26 Here we go.

Speaker 36:27 Back blast area clear.

Joe Rogan 36:29 Boy, he looks fucking nervous.

Speaker 36:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:30 Look at him breathing.

Speaker 36:31 Fire

Joe Rogan 36:35 Ooh.

Speaker 36:37 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 36:38 Oh my goodness

Speaker 36:40 To the moon and a little.

Speaker 36:40 Oh, yeah, airburst.

Joe Rogan 36:41 Wow.

Speaker 36:41 You can set these suckers, you can twist the, uh, the warhead to set a delay on the thing. You can have it airburst, like if they're trying to play hide and seek with you on a wall.

Joe Rogan 36:48 See, this is the argument for those little robot dogs. 'Cause you put one on one of them little robot dogs and have that thing shoot it, and that way you don't have to lose the lining of your lungs.

Speaker 36:57 I don't know if a robot dog [laughs] could handle that thing.

Joe Rogan 36:59 Really? What about one of them big robot dogs? [laughs]

Speaker 37:03 [laughs] I don't know if the answer is just make it bigger. Probably.

Joe Rogan 37:06 Well, it's-

Speaker 37:06 I'm sure there's a size of robot dog that could handle that.

Joe Rogan 37:08 I mean, you would imagine. I mean-

Speaker 37:09 But then you would need a, a friendly other robot dog to reload it for him.

Joe Rogan 37:13 Right. But that would be possible. That would totally be possible. Or the robot dog has, like, arms in the back-

Speaker 37:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 37:19 ... that can do it.

Speaker 37:21 Oh, that was a training round. Nice little rifle barrel, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:24 Oh, that's crazy.

Speaker 37:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:26 That's cool to see.

Speaker 37:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:27 What a great shot. Imagine standing there taking that shot, though. Fuck all that.

Speaker 37:31 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 37:32 Fuck.

Speaker 37:32 As a dude's loading a round into it. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 37:34 Oh, that.

Speaker 37:35 Reach the camera for that one.

Speaker 37:36 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:37 Good Lord.

Speaker 37:38 Yeah. No, next time you're sitting down with Evan, ask him like, "Hey, did you ever, guys, at the end of training evolutions, ever have extra ordnance and ammunition that you had to, uh, dispose of?"

Joe Rogan 37:49 That's crazy.

Speaker 37:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:50 They just make you blow it up.

Speaker 37:52 Yeah. His answer will be yes, and he'll just start laughing.

Joe Rogan 37:54 So if you have to do it outside of shooting, how do you do it?

Speaker 37:59 You can blow stuff in place. Like, you can make a large pile of stuff and, you know, layer-

Joe Rogan 38:03 Launch something at it?

Speaker 38:04 Uh, that probably wouldn't-

Joe Rogan 38:05 Or do you light it on fire?

Speaker 38:06 Mm, you can actually light ammunition on fire. It'll go off. And, and if outside-

Joe Rogan 38:10 In what direction?

Speaker 38:11 Well, outside of it being compressed in the chamber of a gun, which, you know, if you, if you, uh, think of like an AR platform rifle, when in the round is in the magazine, it gets pushed forward by the bolt, and it's being held it by all sides except for down the barrel. So all of the pressure is pointed in that direction, which is what propels the bullet down the barrel. If you remove that, it kind of just explodes in place. I'm not saying it's safe to, like, stand around and, like, have a beer while you're wa- like, from me to you.

Joe Rogan 38:36 Right.

Speaker 38:36 We would be on the other side of a berm, but it sounds like popcorn going off.

Joe Rogan 38:39 Oh, okay.

Speaker 38:40 And, and then for other stuff, you can layer explosive charges on top of it and probably get all of it to go high speed.

Joe Rogan 38:45 God, it seems ex- insanely wasteful. It seems like you should be able to say, "We achieved what we needed to achieve in our training. Here is our excess ordnance that we could use in the future."

Speaker 38:57 Mm-hmm. Yeah, you just haven't spent enough time around the military. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 39:00 Uh, well, that's been explained to me about budgets.

Speaker 39:03 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 39:04 That if you do not meet your budget, you get in trouble, because then they can't ask for the same amount of money next year.

Speaker 39:10 So I heard that every year that when I was in, and September was a fantastic month to be in the military, because that's when they... 'Cause the budget year is October 1 to October 1.

Joe Rogan 39:19 Mm.

Speaker 39:19 So September, the bean counters really start taking a look at what they have left. And they'd say... I was a supply rep for a short period of time, meaning I was, I was a little cog in the wheel of supplying stuff to the guys. They're like, "You need to spend $100,000 in the next three hours on shoes."

Joe Rogan 39:35 [laughs]

Speaker 39:36 [laughs] Which, let me tell you, REI is happy to take your money.

Joe Rogan 39:41 [laughs]

Speaker 39:41 REI.com will run that card. And at, and you always would hear this, "If we don't spend it, we're gonna lose it." But I never actually saw that tested. I don't know if you actually would get in trouble. They just always assumed that you would, so you ran that sucker down to bankrupt, and then October 1st you're good to go.

Joe Rogan 39:59 Wow.

Speaker 39:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:00 So here's a good question in terms of, like, shoes. When y- y- your missions would involve a bunch of different types of-

Speaker 40:07 Mm

Joe Rogan 40:07 ... terrain, a bunch of different... Like how, i- is it, do they favor a lighter weight shoe that's more of an all-purpose shoe? Because, like, I couldn't imagine you would be wearing, like, like a crispy mountain boot with, like, high leather-

Speaker 40:21 Sometimes.

Joe Rogan 40:21 Yeah?

Speaker 40:22 It, well, so it depends.

Joe Rogan 40:23 So you'd vary.

Speaker 40:24 You gotta have a wardrobe, Joe.

Joe Rogan 40:25 Right.

Speaker 40:26 Being good at your job is second only to looking good while doing your job.

Joe Rogan 40:30 Hmm.

Speaker 40:30 So we, trust me, I've sent people back to hell. Like, "Your top and bottom are matching. We're not doing this. Go change."

Joe Rogan 40:36 Really?

Speaker 40:36 Yeah. You have to look the part. It's equal to your professionalism and tactical ability.

Joe Rogan 40:42 Interesting.

Speaker 40:43 Yeah. Maybe perhaps I was a little bit picky on that, but I don't, I don't want to clash on the battlefield. You need to look good.

Joe Rogan 40:49 [laughs]

Speaker 40:50 It's like, you can't have everybody looking awesome and then one, like, "You look like shit. Go change your outfit out."

Joe Rogan 40:54 Yeah, you have orange boots on, dude. What are you doing?

Speaker 40:56 Yeah. Uh, the boots you could... I mean, you take, uh, a Pelican case or a box. It, you have a tool for every job. So if you're gonna go up in the mountains, if you're gonna go, like, northeastern Afghanistan, you're gonna wear a different type of shoe, for sure. If you're in Iraq in an urban environment, you're gonna wear probably the lightest weight, um, like the S- I forget who makes them, but, like, the Speedcross shoes. Uh, and those things are, I mean, the, you might get two months out of those, so you'd bring a couple pair. You're gonna bring some s- uh, footwear that if you needed to go into the water, like, not swim around in the water, but pass through water or-

Joe Rogan 41:29 Are those, like, Solomons? Is that what it is, Speedcrosses?

Speaker 41:31 Yeah, Solomon Speedcross. Or yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:32 Yeah.

Speaker 41:33 And the soles on those things, they don't last very long. But again, when you get 100 grand to s- buy shoes for three hours, you can buy, you know, extras for people. So you kinda have a... It's just, like all the rest of the gear, you have cold weather gear, you have desert gear. And the coldest I've ever been is actually in the desert, because of the super high high and then the super, that swing-

Joe Rogan 41:51 Right

Speaker 41:51 ... was way colder than, like, in mountainous terrain.

Joe Rogan 41:53 It's like the moon.

Speaker 41:54 Yeah. But I mean, so you, when you lay out your stuff, like, before every deployment you get ready to go on, you're laying your stuff out. You probably have two tables like this with all, like, desert, woodland, cold weather, layering system, shoes, different, uh, load-bearing equipment, different back... And then you just lay it all out, put it into a bag, and then you're doing the best you can. Then you're kinda just packing, you know, for what comes up in front of you.

Joe Rogan 42:19 And you're just ordering stuff from REI for real?

Speaker 42:21 Sometimes, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:22 Wow. So-

Speaker 42:23 Not everybody

Joe Rogan 42:24 ... th- th-

Speaker 42:24 Not, not, not everywhere. The conventional teams are very limited in their ability to do that. At a JSOC level, you have a little bit more room and flexibility to source from outside vendors.

Joe Rogan 42:32 So you would go for the best possible tool for the job.

Speaker 42:35 100% of the time.

Joe Rogan 42:36 Yeah.

Speaker 42:37 Yep.

Joe Rogan 42:37 Instead of just get military issue.

Speaker 42:40 Correct.

Joe Rogan 42:41 Yeah.

Speaker 42:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:42 I got the dumbest question for you about Afghanistan.

Speaker 42:45 Tell me more. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 42:46 This is the dumbest question. Um, have you heard of the story of the Kandahar Giant?

Speaker 42:55 Are, are we talking about an actual giant?

Joe Rogan 42:57 Uh-huh.

Speaker 42:58 No.

Joe Rogan 42:59 Okay.

Speaker 42:59 How did you hear the story about a Kandahar Giant?

Joe Rogan 43:02 There's a crazy thing called the internet.

Speaker 43:04 Okay. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 43:05 As long as you have that. [laughs]

Speaker 43:07 I may spend-

Joe Rogan 43:08 And-

Speaker 43:08 ... less time on the internet than you guys.

Joe Rogan 43:10 [laughs] And if you have a good algorithm, and by good I mean retarded-

Speaker 43:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 43:14 ... uh, you get ... So-

Speaker 43:17 Oh, my. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 43:18 There was this-

Speaker 43:18 This is a visual representation, obviously not an actual picture.

Joe Rogan 43:20 Yes. So there was a story that, uh ... What is the guy's name that was on Jesse Michel's podcast recently?

Speaker 43:26 Oh, I'll find it.

Joe Rogan 43:27 Tim ...

Speaker 43:28 I don't remember. I'll check. Um.

Joe Rogan 43:30 Uh, so supposedly there was a giant that engaged US troops in Kandahar, Afghanistan, and, uh, in a very remote area.

Speaker 43:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:43 And this guy was shot and killed, and medevaced out of there or, you know, helicoptered out of there. And, uh, they're a 12-foot giant. Tim, uh, Alberino.

Speaker 43:54 And he was ... Is, was he telling this story as if he was there-

Joe Rogan 43:57 No

Speaker 43:57 ... or he heard this?

Joe Rogan 43:58 There's never a guy who was there who tells these stories.

Speaker 44:00 Damn it.

Joe Rogan 44:01 [laughs] There's apparently one guy who has his face covered up in one of these videos that I watched. He's like one of the blurry, like, you know, like a, a witness to a mob scene.

Speaker 44:09 Yep.

Joe Rogan 44:10 And so his face-

Speaker 44:10 That's how you know they're legit.

Joe Rogan 44:12 100%.

Speaker 44:13 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 44:13 Thank you. I think the same way. That's why I sent it to all my friends. Um, but he was telling the story from people that he talked to that were there.

Speaker 44:22 See, I ... And here's the thing, I want stories like that to be true.

Joe Rogan 44:24 Me too.

Speaker 44:25 I still am just waiting. Same thing with aliens. God, I so deeply want it to be true. I just need somebody to hold up an actual piece of evidence-

Joe Rogan 44:33 Mm-hmm

Speaker 44:34 ... and say, "This is what I'm talking about."

Joe Rogan 44:36 Right.

Speaker 44:36 Instead of, "I saw. I know somebody who was read into."

Joe Rogan 44:40 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 44:41 "I had a buddy who got engaged by a giant, or they ki-..." Like, okay, where is it?

Joe Rogan 44:47 Right.

Speaker 44:47 And until then, I, and I got a real hard time believing that.

Joe Rogan 44:51 Oh, I'm with you. But I also want to believe, which I know clouds my vision. I want to.

Speaker 44:56 I just think it makes you hopeful.

Joe Rogan 44:58 It gets me to a certain point, and then the poi- like, there's a point where my logic kicks in, and I'm not willing to go any further, and that's Bigfoot.

Speaker 45:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:07 With, with Bigfoot, I'm like, I know too many guys that are in the woods all the time.

Speaker 45:12 And let's not forget the game cameras they often leave behind.

Joe Rogan 45:14 That's right.

Speaker 45:14 Like, millions of game cameras.

Joe Rogan 45:16 That's right.

Speaker 45:16 At this point, come on.

Joe Rogan 45:17 At this point, like, I could have bought it in the 1960s. Like, maybe. Who knows? Before drones, before satellites-

Speaker 45:24 Yeah

Joe Rogan 45:24 ... before this, before that. And, you know, there's good arguments that you wouldn't find the body because, like, you and I have hunted in the mountains many, many times. I have never seen a mountain lion skeleton. Have you?

Speaker 45:38 No.

Joe Rogan 45:38 No.

Speaker 45:39 No.

Joe Rogan 45:39 I don't know anybody who has. I've seen mountain lions. I've never seen a mountain lion skeleton. I've never seen a bear skeleton. I'm sure people have found them.

Speaker 45:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:46 But I haven't. And we know there's a shit ton of mountain lions and a shit ton of bears. So if there was a very small population of primates, it's not inconceivable that you wouldn't find their body, especially if they were in some way advanced to the point where they were burying their dead, which is, you know, it's not outside the realm of possibility if they have a language of, like ... Who knows what these things are? Uh, but no, I just ... That doesn't ... I think it used to be real, and I think there's real evidence of that.

Speaker 46:17 I want it to be.

Joe Rogan 46:18 No, there's real evidence. There's a thing called Gigantopithecus. It was a, uh, eight-foot-plus tall bipedal hominid that existed in Asia, and it's in the orangutan family. And there's, like, uh, recreations of what it looks like standing next to a human. It's huge.

Speaker 46:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:33 But that just makes sense. I mean, there used to be giant wooly mammoths. There used to be giant sloths. The, the idea of a giant primate is not inconceivable. It's like size is all relative anyway. Our idea of what's big compared to a fucking giraffe or this, it's all ... It doesn't, it, it ... You know, if you have enough resources and there's enough food for these things, and they live in a lush, tropical environment or a lush wilderness environment, it's not impossible to think that something would get way bigger than a gorilla. But for that thing to exist today, so that-

Speaker 47:04 [laughs] Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 47:05 Yeah, that's what it used to look like. So I think that is probably what all these ancient myths are based on. That's probably what used to exist. So it was bipedal, which is also interesting, and that's based on its jaw structure.

Speaker 47:21 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:22 And so-

Speaker 47:23 Here's a, here's a question for you that you-

Joe Rogan 47:24 Yeah

Speaker 47:24 ... uh, the species burying themself. These are intrusive thoughts that I have and can't get out of my head. Why don't we bury people vertically to save space?

Joe Rogan 47:32 That's a good question.

Speaker 47:33 Wouldn't you get more square footage?

Joe Rogan 47:35 Oh, a lot more.

Speaker 47:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:36 It'd be harder to make a six-foot-tall hole or, you know, for the tall person, even taller.

Speaker 47:39 I feel like they make oil drills that could ... I mean, I'm not saying that would look-

Joe Rogan 47:42 They do now.

Speaker 47:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:44 But back in the day, it'd be easy to, someone's laid down, just roll them over into the hole.

Speaker 47:48 I mean, I w-

Joe Rogan 47:49 'Cause, but because a six-foot deep hole-

Speaker 47:51 Yeah

Joe Rogan 47:51 ... that's like six feet long.

Speaker 47:53 Joe, I'm not saying it's easy.

Joe Rogan 47:54 Mm.

Speaker 47:54 I'm just saying y-

Joe Rogan 47:56 In today's world, yeah. Good idea

Speaker 47:57 ... I think we can evolve.

Joe Rogan 47:59 Well, here's even weirder. You know, you have to embalm people before you cremate them?

Speaker 48:04 Be- why?

Joe Rogan 48:06 Exactly. My friend Joey Diaz says it's a racket, 'cause he knew a guy who ran a funeral home. And-

Speaker 48:11 The big embalming market?

Joe Rogan 48:13 Well, it's all a racket. The whole-

Speaker 48:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 48:14 ... funeral home thing's a racket. They know ... Like, your family member dies.

Speaker 48:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:18 You have to bury your family member. You're in grief, and then they try to sell you on some fucking fancy coffin, and they sell you on this and sell you on that. But the embalming is, it's mandatory.

Speaker 48:29 I did not know that.

Joe Rogan 48:30 At least for some places. 'Cause I know that some people are trying to do what they call natural burials, and I don't know what the regulations are on ... Like, let's find that out. Like-

Speaker 48:39 Well, I'm already look- there are upright, they call it upright burials.

Joe Rogan 48:42 Oh.

Speaker 48:43 That, that is a thing.

Joe Rogan 48:43 They do exist.

Speaker 48:44 In the US, though, or is this some, like, Nordic country?

Speaker 48:46 Uh, there, there's a cemetery that does it already. I was trying to look up more information on it.

Joe Rogan 48:50 Probably a bunch of cheapies who don't want-

Speaker 48:51 One thing already that I can give up space-

Speaker 48:52 I'm just thinking about, like, you-

Speaker 48:53 ... gravestones and headstones

Speaker 48:54 ... most of them have fences, so, like, maximum square footage utilization.

Joe Rogan 48:57 Right. That makes sense.Yeah

Speaker 48:59 ... the gravity's an issue a little bit, keeping it in the... I don't know. There's just stuff-

Joe Rogan 49:02 Gravity's an issue

Speaker 49:03 Gravity's not gonna be the issue. First off, once you're in that coffin, then nothing good's happening.

Joe Rogan 49:07 Right.

Speaker 49:07 So vertically or horizontal. [laughs]

Speaker 49:09 Oh.

Joe Rogan 49:09 How does it... That doesn't make sense. What kind of gravity is it... Just drop him in the hole.

Speaker 49:14 They... I think the family often-

Joe Rogan 49:15 Like it'd be like this.

Speaker 49:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:16 Like, like slide it down in that hole.

Speaker 49:18 I think they're saying the family doesn't like the idea-

Speaker 49:20 Yeah

Speaker 49:20 ... that they're gonna be compressed into a small amount in the bottom of the coffin.

Speaker 49:23 It's often just kind of like a science issue, I think.

Joe Rogan 49:24 Yeah. Well, they're fucking dead, you know? You know the, the most gnarly way they bury people, or the most gnarly funeral?

Speaker 49:31 While they're still alive?

Joe Rogan 49:32 No. Well, they're dead.

Speaker 49:33 Well, I'm saying that would be the most gnarly.

Joe Rogan 49:35 That's the most gnarly. Right. The most gnarly post-mortem is the Tibetan sky funeral. Do you know how they do that?

Speaker 49:40 No. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 49:43 Vultures. They literally break the body up, chop it up into chunks, and the vultures know it, and so they prepare, so the vultures are all hanging around waiting.

Speaker 49:53 Wow.

Joe Rogan 49:53 It is a, a tradition in Tibet with at least certain people to get rid of their bodies that way, and the idea is that, look, the person's dead. This is a more natural way, you know, and they'll cycle back into the ecosystem the way it's supposed to be with all animals. We're the only animal that opts out of like ream- rejoining with all b- biological life. 'Cause it's supposed to be a biological body deteriorates underground that feeds the soil-

Speaker 50:25 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 50:25 ... that feeds w- you know, whatever animals feast on its bones, and then it becomes all part of this big beautiful cycle. And we're like, "Nah, we've got some chemicals laying around we'd like to fill the veins up with to make them completely poison so that they never deteriorate, or they just slowly turn into gelatinous sludge."

Speaker 50:44 By state, looks like.

Joe Rogan 50:45 Okay. [clears throat] So it says, "Burrl, burial," b- burial? Why is that word weird to me right now? "Burial is, uh, regulated by state by state, uh, city county zoning. There's no federal rule that specifies body position, horizontal versus vertical." Um, what are the laws in terms of embalming?

Speaker 51:06 Uh...

Joe Rogan 51:07 "Green or natural burial, simple shroud, no vault, minimal disturbance is legal in all 50 states, but only in locations that comply with state and local rules."

Speaker 51:16 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:17 Green or natural burial.

Speaker 51:19 Distance from water sources would be a big reason for that.

Joe Rogan 51:21 Oh, interesting. So you don't want people to rot. But what about cows? Cows can rot, you know? Like a dead coyote just rots.

Speaker 51:30 Yeah, but we don't wanna eat people.

Joe Rogan 51:33 Yeah, but it's not-

Speaker 51:34 Or drink them either.

Joe Rogan 51:34 I guess. Well, it didn't, n- no.

Speaker 51:37 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 51:37 I was watching this, uh, documentary about this family where, uh, the kid, his dad was a serial killer. The dad would throw people in a well, and he had to help him when he was young. His dad would-

Speaker 51:49 Oh, boy

Joe Rogan 51:50 ... kill people and-

Speaker 51:51 Yeah

Joe Rogan 51:51 ... then throw them down the well. First time he did it, he said, I think he was a young boy when his dad first took him to get rid of a body and throw it down a well.

Speaker 52:02 Not all-

Joe Rogan 52:03 Yeah, how many people-

Speaker 52:03 ... bonding experiences are created equal.

Joe Rogan 52:05 How many people have died drinking well water that was polluted by a dead body?

Speaker 52:09 Hopefully not that many.

Joe Rogan 52:10 What'd you find, Jamie?

Speaker 52:10 No, I'm just... That's disgusting.

Joe Rogan 52:12 [laughs]

Speaker 52:13 Have you thought through your end of life? Have, do you have, uh, have you told people what-

Joe Rogan 52:17 I would like to not be embalmed. I would like to just be buried in the ground and be absorbed naturally, like everything else.

Speaker 52:23 Do you have that written down anywhere, though?

Joe Rogan 52:25 No. I don't ca- Once I'm gone, figure it out. I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 52:29 Well, there's an argument to help figuring it out for those left behind so it makes it easier.

Joe Rogan 52:33 I don't wanna make things easier. When I'm gone, I want it-

Speaker 52:36 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 52:36 ... I want it to be complicated as fuck. I want them to be arguing over my will. [laughs]

Speaker 52:42 Well, I, I only ask because we had to think through this stuff 'cause you do a, like a review of your will every time.

Joe Rogan 52:48 Yeah.

Speaker 52:48 And, and, you know, final requests, I guess it would be. So you had to think through that stuff.

Joe Rogan 52:51 Jamie, stop scrolling.

Speaker 52:52 Yeah, yeah, I was-

Joe Rogan 52:53 Uh, so for direct cremation, no public viewing, cremation within a few days, body kept refrigerated, embalming is generally unnecessary and not legally required in most states. But the thing is, it's, it's, most of the time it's done, according to my friend Joey, whose friend, at least it was in the past, whose friend ran a, a funeral home. The guy was telling him what a fucking scam it all is.

Speaker 53:18 I just-

Joe Rogan 53:18 It's just you're just charging people for all this stuff.

Speaker 53:20 It probably, it's just like anything else is.

Joe Rogan 53:22 Here it is. Many funeral homes require embalming for presentation and public health reasons if you want a public viewing or an open casket, uh, before cremation. Oh, who does that?

Speaker 53:35 I've seen this.

Joe Rogan 53:36 Some jurisdictions or airlines-

Speaker 53:38 Oh, interesting

Joe Rogan 53:38 ... may require embalming for long distance or international transport, or if there's a long delay before cremation. Well, that makes sense.

Speaker 53:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:47 'Cause if you don't embalm it, you're gonna stink up the whole fucking plane. US law jet... I, I mean, I'm sure you've smelled dead bodies before, but the first time I ever smelled a dead body, I was a little kid, and someone died in our apartment building. It was crazy. You'd walk down the hallway, and the fucking smell that was... It was me and my cousins and my sister. We were walking down the hall. We were like, "What is that?" We were probably like six. It was this insane smell, and it turned out this lady who was just living by herself died, and so she was just rotting in this apartment building.

Speaker 54:20 You think you'd still recognize it to this day? It's very unique.

Joe Rogan 54:24 Is it? Humans are a very unique smell-

Speaker 54:26 Yeah

Joe Rogan 54:26 ... as opposed to a regular animal?

Speaker 54:27 Well, the m- the mechanism of death can change, I guess, a little bit.

Joe Rogan 54:32 Sure.

Speaker 54:32 But in general, yeah, a couple days later, like they all kinda smell the same.

Joe Rogan 54:37 I've heard, yeah, I've heard humans are uniquely gross in the way we smell.

Speaker 54:41 Yeah. Yeah, it's not awesome.

Joe Rogan 54:44 Yeah.

Speaker 54:45 Not awesome to be around it.

Joe Rogan 54:46 This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. A lot of people hit stretches where money gets tight, and it's not just the bills. It's the constant pressure, the mental load, the second-guessing of every decision. And honestly

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Joe Rogan 56:09 So this embalming thing, um, so is that not the case? Like, is it where sh- funeral homes request embalming before they cremate you? Also, here's another scam, according to my friend. When you think you get your family member ashes, you, you get a bunch of shit. You get a bunch of ashes. You get ashes from some fucking fucking guy you don't even know. They don't care. They just shove a bunch of ashes into an urn. And you're like, "Look, it's grandma. She's, she's here with us forever." But it's not really. It's like some-

Andy Stumpf 56:43 I hope that one's not true.

Joe Rogan 56:44 Yeah.

Andy Stumpf 56:44 That's gnarly.

Joe Rogan 56:45 Yeah, it's true.

Andy Stumpf 56:46 That's like the epitome of laziness.

Joe Rogan 56:47 I'm pretty sure it's true.

Speaker 56:48 Pose the question as though if the requirement was coming from funeral homes instead of law, and the court says yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:54 Most of the time, yes, the requirement to embalm before viewing or before cremation is coming from funeral homes or cemetery policy. Right. So they're trying to make more money. So this is what Joey was telling me about. Yeah. So it's not a federal requirement.

Andy Stumpf 57:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:08 FTC says embalming may be necessary if you choose certain arrangements like a public viewing, but the necessity is based on the funeral home standards, not a blanket legal mandate. So the, most people probably don't know that, so the funeral home will tell you, "Oh, we have to embalm them first."

Andy Stumpf 57:25 And you're in a pretty, uh, susceptible and malleable mind space-

Joe Rogan 57:29 Exactly

Andy Stumpf 57:29 ... at that time. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:30 And they're just really used to it. They're really used to it. They, they must get, they must get so accustomed to just, they, they don't give a fuck. There's bodies there every day. People are always dying. They just... It's an opportunity to make more money, which is rough.

Andy Stumpf 57:45 Yeah. You would like to think that humanity wouldn't be like that, but yet here we are.

Joe Rogan 57:49 Yeah. Find out if, uh... Well, the, the other thing is, like, you remember that Sam Kinison bit? I don't know if you, you ever saw it about-

Andy Stumpf 57:57 I know who Sam Kinison is. I'm not very familiar with his bits.

Joe Rogan 58:00 One of the greatest of all time. But he had this bit about homosexual necrophiliacs who were caught spending, uh, paying [laughs] a bunch of money to be alone with the freshest male corpse.

Andy Stumpf 58:12 What? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 58:13 And it was his bit... It was an actual true story that he read in the news. But his whole thing was like, imagine you're on the slab. You're like, "Well, I'm dead now."

Andy Stumpf 58:21 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 58:21 "I'm gonna be with Jesus. And hey. Hey, what?" And he would be, like, rocking back and forth on his stomach. "What is this? It feels like some guy's got his dick in my ass. You mean life keeps fucking you in the ass even after you're dead? It never ends. It never ends. Oh, oh."

Andy Stumpf 58:37 [sighs] You comedians are a unique bunch. Let's... You know. I'm glad there's-

Joe Rogan 58:42 Somebody's gotta do it.

Andy Stumpf 58:42 I'm glad there's somebody out there who can weave a story like that together and have a meaningful message at the end of it. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 58:49 [laughs] But there are, there have been cases of people getting, like, hot girls that are freshly dead and fucking them and getting caught.

Andy Stumpf 58:55 Yeah, because humans are horrible.

Joe Rogan 58:57 Disgusting.

Andy Stumpf 58:57 The vast maj- I, I try to tell myself that the vast majority of humans are trying to do the best that they can, but I never forget that there are people out there who are like that.

Joe Rogan 59:07 Sure. Yeah. There's people out there that are gross. They're just evil. I'm, I was reading about this guy who was an oncologist who got arrested because he was giving people chemotherapy that didn't really have cancer, because chemotherapy is uniquely profitable for doctors.

Andy Stumpf 59:22 Really?

Joe Rogan 59:22 Yeah. It's very profitable. So he was telling people that they had cancer, and they did not, and he was giving them chemotherapy, which I have a friend who died recently, and, uh, he went through the first round-

Andy Stumpf 59:35 Mm

Joe Rogan 59:36 ... of chemotherapy, went into remission, and, uh, the chemotherapy was so bad that when the cancer came back, he decided to just die.

Andy Stumpf 59:43 That's how my mom died. She had survived cervical cancer. It metastasized into her lungs 10 years later. Got on the chemo, which I don't know what is in that stuff, but they... You know, the, the platinum treatment, whatever it may be, and had the realization that she was either gonna die from cancer or she was gonna die from the chemotherapy. And she chose hospice just because the ride on the chemotherapy was so horrible that she couldn't take it anymore.

Joe Rogan 1:00:10 My friend said that the pain of brushing his teeth was so intense, like the sores in his mouth from the chemo, and that once cancer went into remission, and then it came back... And by the way, this cancer came very quickly after vaccination. It was one of those where, you know, you can get into that all day long if you want to really get into a deep conspiracy theory that's got some real facts to it, but there's something called SV40, and they found SV40 in some of the mRNA vaccines. SV40 is simian virus 40, and it's a virus that was contracted, that people got because they used kidney s- cells from monkeys in order to, uh, cultivate these vaccines. This was, like, known about for a long time. And, um, in certain batches, they've tested positive for SV40, which is, like, some justLegacy material that they have that they make vaccines out of, and, uh, he was one of the lucky ones.

Speaker 1:01:17 It sucks, man.

Joe Rogan 1:01:18 Yeah, he was a young dude. You know, he was in his 40s, early 40s. Fit, young guy. Cancer came on like a fucking tidal wave.

Speaker 1:01:26 Just a freight train mowed him down. How much time did he have between diagnosis and death?

Joe Rogan 1:01:30 Well, I got him connected with, uh, Gary Brecka, and Gary Brecka helped him quite a bit, and that's how he, uh, originally got through it, and it got over it. He was okay again and, you know, went into remission. He said he's feeling pretty good, and then, man, it wasn't more than a year and a half, two years later, it came back with a vengeance. And, um, he was dead just, you know, six, six months later.

Speaker 1:02:00 Does it change how you view life, your own life, when that happens close to you?

Joe Rogan 1:02:04 It's just shocking that healthy, fit people get something like that, so... And it happens so quickly. You know, this is, I, you know, like I said, uh, my suspicions is it's connected to the vaccine.

Speaker 1:02:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:02:18 And, uh, don't, I don't think that everybody who got that mRNA vaccine is gonna die of cancer. That's, I, I, I think it's a contamination issue, that some of the batches had it and some of the batches didn't. But, and then some people react very differently to whatever, whatever's in it. But with him, man, it, it got him. And it's not uncommon. There's, there's a sh- shitload of ignored cases of what they're calling turbo cancer that people have gotten after the mRNA vaccine. Like, it's, it's barely a conspiracy theory. It's more likely an ignored, inconvenient fact that these pharmaceutical drug companies are trying to ignore.

Speaker 1:03:00 Do you think they were trying... Going upstream from that, the pharmaceutical companies or people that were pushing to try to find what perhaps they thought would be the fix to the solution, do you think that they were doing the best that they could and just their enthusiasm outstripped their capabilities, or they pushed stuff a little bit too early? Or was it as deep of as a conspiracy that people think, and that behind the scenes they're trying to reduce overall global population?

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 I don't go that way. I don't go to the reduce overall global population. But I do understand why people would think that, because there are, there have been a bunch of people that are pr- supposedly philanthropists, Bill Gates, that have talked about reducing overall population being a goal, and that goal could being... Like, Bill Gates is actually quoted saying that, that goal could be achieved through vaccines. Like, like, what the fuck does that mean, reducing global population through vaccines? How? Well, one way is the... What is it, DDP or DTP vaccine? Diphtheria something and pertussis. Um, so they were caught in Africa, one of the vaccines that they were using on women in Africa, uh, turned out to... It's tetanus, right? Diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis, had HCG in it, which is, uh, an endocrine disruptor. I don't know, uh, what's the exact specific description of it, but it, what it's essentially doing was rendering these women infertile. And so they were supposedly, um, vaccinating them for tetanus and these other diseases, but really what it was doing was they were making these women infertile, and they were experimenting on them, and they were doing this in Africa. You know, they, they like to experiment in places where not a lot of people are watching, and there's not a lot of infrastructure and not a lot of internet connection, and they can, you know, get away with trying stuff on people. So this, this concept of reducing population through vaccination, there's some real world examples of people doing that. But, you know, why? I don't know. I don't think that... I think if you find out about how much money was generated during the, the vaccine pandemic, during the COVID pandemic-

Speaker 1:05:19 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:05:20 ... that is the most likely scenario. They were just trying to make an enormous amount of money.

Speaker 1:05:24 Do you remember that you and I did the first podcast after the lockdown in LA?

Joe Rogan 1:05:30 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 1:05:31 And then I drove, I drove with my wife down to San Diego, and I don't think she had been... Because we got to San Diego in about 17 minutes. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:05:39 [laughs] There's no one on the road.

Speaker 1:05:41 And I remember saying to her, "If we come back, which we will, don't expect this..." It was like a ghost town. But we w- we were in LA the day that it locked down. I remember texting you like, "Um, are we good?" You're like, "Yeah, YouTube says we're essential. Let's roll." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 [laughs] We're essential.

Speaker 1:05:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:59 That was what was crazy. There was essential businesses that were allowed to stay open.

Speaker 1:06:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:03 Restaurants weren't one of them, fucking insanely enough. But fast food places were. Um, so there was cer- places that were as essential, and media was essential, so we were allowed to. Although we did get ratted out. The health department came to our, um, LA studio, and, uh, they made us put a bag of masks on the wall when you go in.

Speaker 1:06:22 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:06:22 And also a note that shows, like, all the precautions that you have to take place, like stand six feet apart. And then they, people were also complaining that this table's not six feet wide, and so we weren't observing the proper s- proper social distancing.

Speaker 1:06:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 So I said, "Okay, well, why don't we just do this, and you do that, and we'll do a podcast like this."

Speaker 1:06:40 Oh, yeah. We're six feet right here.

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 Now we're six feet. Now we're good.

Speaker 1:06:42 [laughs] Here...

Joe Rogan 1:06:43 It's like it's... It w- and then it turns out that that was all made up. It was all horseshit. You know, it's The Who song, We Won't Get Fooled Again, you know?

Speaker 1:06:52 I wanna believe that they were trying to do the best that they can-

Joe Rogan 1:06:55 I don't believe that.

Speaker 1:06:55 I said I want to believe that.

Joe Rogan 1:06:56 Yeah, no, I don't even wanna believe that.

Speaker 1:06:59 But then what do we do about it?

Joe Rogan 1:07:00 We never listen again. We'd never-

Speaker 1:07:02 What if they're right the next time is the issue.

Joe Rogan 1:07:04 I don't think they will be. Um, I don't think they're ever right with that kind of stuff, especially something that's not killing everybody as they said it was. They were just g- gaslighting us all over television that people are dropping like flies. And es- especially egregiously disgusting is gaslighting us about children dying from it.

Speaker 1:07:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 You know, and there's a lot of really fucking shitty human beings that were posting about this on Twitter, and I don't know if they were being paid to do it or if they're just ideologically captured, but there was a lot of people on Twitter talking about children dying from COVID. It's a fucking dirty lie. There was a very small amount of kids that died during the pandemic, and those kids, all of them had something wrong with them already. All of them had comorbidities, which is like also a giant percentage of all the people that died, period. It's-

Speaker 1:08:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:00 Like what is the number? It's like 75% of them, something like that, had four-plus cor- comorbidities. Four comorbidities is crazy.

Speaker 1:08:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 It's like you're already fucked. That's means four things that are already killing you, you know?

Speaker 1:08:13 Yeah. Do you think we learned anything during that time period?

Joe Rogan 1:08:16 Yeah. I think we learned that the pharmaceutical drug company has a lock on the media that is very disturbing. Like the media did not report at all vaccine injuries. They didn't report on it at all.

Speaker 1:08:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:30 It was never discussed. People were dropping dead. They were ignoring it and gaslighting. And then we also found out the amount of money that these pharmaceutical drug companies pay to these corporations, wh- whether it's Fox or NBC or CBS or whoever it is, in advertising. It's a huge part of their budget is advertising money, and Ca- the way Callie Means explained it to me, he goes, "It's not so that people find out about the drugs. It's so that these news stations don't criticize the pharmaceutical drug companies."

Speaker 1:09:03 Well, if they control the ad inventory and then the, the checkbook behind that-

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 Exactly.

Speaker 1:09:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:08 Exactly. It should be-

Speaker 1:09:09 Do you ever do, do you ever do, uh, pharmaceutical type, type reads for your show?

Joe Rogan 1:09:13 No. No, I say no to them.

Speaker 1:09:15 I only say yes to dick pills.

Joe Rogan 1:09:17 [laughs] Dick pills I'll say yes to.

Speaker 1:09:18 Be like-

Joe Rogan 1:09:19 Yeah

Speaker 1:09:19 ... "Listen."

Joe Rogan 1:09:19 Like-

Speaker 1:09:20 ... Get hard-

Joe Rogan 1:09:20 ... blue juice

Speaker 1:09:20 ... stay hard.

Joe Rogan 1:09:21 Yeah. [laughs]

Speaker 1:09:21 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:09:21 Yeah, yeah. I'm down with that. Well, see-

Speaker 1:09:23 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:09:24 ... I'm not anti-pharmaceutical drug company, but I am an- the, the, the problem with corporations is they have an obligation to their shareholders to make the most amount of money possible.

Speaker 1:09:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:33 And it's not the people that are making these things. The, the people that are making them, these doctors and engineers and scientists, all these wizards that are coming up with all these life-saving medications, then you get the money people, and the money people are the ones that fuck everything up 'cause the money people say, "You know what? We could charge $1,000 a pill for this stuff." You know, there's certain medications that literally cost $1,000 a pill, you know, and they just try to make the most amount of money possible and prescribe it to the most amount of people possible, and then you get monsters like this cancer doctor that I was telling you that was giving chemotherapy to people that don't fucking have cancer.

Speaker 1:10:11 So how do we break that system, though?

Joe Rogan 1:10:12 Hammers.

Speaker 1:10:13 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:10:13 Take that guy in a room. Take that guy in a room. Just keep him alive. Slowly break him down with a hammer.

Speaker 1:10:19 I-

Joe Rogan 1:10:20 Start with his toes.

Speaker 1:10:21 But I feel like it's deeply entrenched-

Joe Rogan 1:10:21 Work your way up to his hips.

Speaker 1:10:23 I feel like it's so deeply entrenched in our political system is part of it as well too. That the money-

Joe Rogan 1:10:30 Yeah

Speaker 1:10:30 ... transfer... Uh, how do you-

Joe Rogan 1:10:31 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:10:31 ... break that-

Joe Rogan 1:10:32 It's hard

Speaker 1:10:32 ... and detach that?

Joe Rogan 1:10:34 AI god. AI god has to come alive, take over the system.

Speaker 1:10:38 Now we're really getting into ter- terrain I don't understand.

Joe Rogan 1:10:41 [laughs]

Speaker 1:10:41 I know what the word AI means. I don't know where we're going.

Joe Rogan 1:10:43 AI god, the one that created that Jesus meme that Trump just posted, that's AI god.

Speaker 1:10:48 Joe, I told you.

Joe Rogan 1:10:49 [laughs]

Speaker 1:10:49 He explained it. He was a doctor.

Joe Rogan 1:10:51 That's what they call them. That's what AI god calls Jesus.

Speaker 1:10:55 [sighs]

Joe Rogan 1:10:55 Jesus is a doctor.

Speaker 1:10:56 The mental gymnastics involved in some of these people who are so ideologically captured-

Joe Rogan 1:11:03 Yeah

Speaker 1:11:04 ... is shocking to me.

Joe Rogan 1:11:05 It's weird. It's weird because there's no way there should be this kind of money in politics. There's no way it'd be good for anybody if the people with all the money are controlling most of the things that happen. It doesn't make any sense 'cause they're just g- they're all sick anyway. They just want more. If you're worth $200 billion and you're still trying to make more money, that's what you're trying to do with your time, well, you're sick. There's something wrong with you. There's like, what are you doing with that money? How is it possible that you could spend all that money?

Speaker 1:11:30 Isn't the answer for some people or the, the dollar figure that they're shooting for just more though?

Joe Rogan 1:11:35 Always. My friend... Well, you know Brian Callen.

Speaker 1:11:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:37 Brian Callen, uh, has a friend who's worth $3 billion, and he feels poor 'cause his friend is worth 80 billion.

Speaker 1:11:46 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:11:47 Imagine that. Imagine feeling insecure.

Speaker 1:11:50 You have $3,000 million-

Joe Rogan 1:11:52 [laughs] And you feel poor

Speaker 1:11:53 ... and you feel insecure.

Joe Rogan 1:11:54 You feel poor.

Speaker 1:11:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:55 Yeah.

Speaker 1:11:55 But it's 'cause he's eating ramen at night, let me just tell you.

Joe Rogan 1:11:57 Yeah, it bothers him.

Speaker 1:11:58 Yeah, mac and cheese and ramen out of the microwave.

Joe Rogan 1:12:00 I feel poor when I'm around Elon.

Speaker 1:12:03 Yeah, but, uh, um-

Joe Rogan 1:12:03 Jokingly

Speaker 1:12:04 ... but also everybody on Earth probably does.

Joe Rogan 1:12:06 Right. But it's jokingly feel poor. Like I don't really feel bad for myself or insecure about the fact that he's got a... What does he got worth now?

Speaker 1:12:15 He's getting close to a trillion. He's, like, worth 800 billion on paper.

Joe Rogan 1:12:19 Yeah. Uh, until California taxes get ahold of him. They'd like to suck all that dry and give it to the homeless people.

Speaker 1:12:26 They're... Well, they're doing good. Their program would work if we gave them a little bit more money.

Joe Rogan 1:12:29 That's all they need. They just need that wealth tax. If they could just siphon off some money from the billionaires. That's the real problem is they don't have enough money.

Speaker 1:12:36 Are you glad you left?

Joe Rogan 1:12:37 Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah.

Speaker 1:12:39 You've been here, what? S-

Joe Rogan 1:12:40 Six years

Speaker 1:12:40 ... six years? You've been in Mon-

Joe Rogan 1:12:41 Yeah, almost six years.

Speaker 1:12:42 You've been in Montana from nine.

Joe Rogan 1:12:43 Nice.

Speaker 1:12:44 I can't think of a reason that I'm going to leave.

Joe Rogan 1:12:47 Yeah.

Speaker 1:12:47 I really can't. It is amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:12:49 Well, Montana's got so much going on for it. First of all, there's less people, which is relaxing. You feel better.

Speaker 1:12:56 1.1 million people in the state.

Joe Rogan 1:12:58 That's all of Austin.

Speaker 1:13:00 That's probably a subdivision in Austin. [chuckles]

Joe Rogan 1:13:01 Well, it's Austin is a million, and then the surrounding-

Speaker 1:13:04 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:13:05 ... area is another million.

Speaker 1:13:06 We just had a fir- a, a net decrease in population in Montana last year. You're welcome.

Joe Rogan 1:13:10 Yeah, because all those fucking people that came over because of Yellowstone, they went through a couple of winters, and they're like-

Speaker 1:13:14 And COVID. They're like, "Yeah, this sucks. We're out."

Joe Rogan 1:13:16 [laughs]

Speaker 1:13:17 Or that, uh, remote work job is like, "Hey, time to come back to the old office."

Joe Rogan 1:13:20 Also, you try driving a electric car when it's fucking 30 below zero outside. That bitch is... Oh, it says you've got 200 miles.

Speaker 1:13:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:29 Guess what? You got 30.

Speaker 1:13:31 There is one-

Joe Rogan 1:13:32 You got 30 miles

Speaker 1:13:32 ... Cybertruck where I live.

Joe Rogan 1:13:33 [laughs]

Speaker 1:13:34 Right on the way. It's not mine, but-

Joe Rogan 1:13:36 I bet it's a rich guy

Speaker 1:13:37 ... he owns a Thai food restaurant.

Joe Rogan 1:13:39 There you go.

Speaker 1:13:40 Which, I mean, I don't know what level of wealth associated with that.

Joe Rogan 1:13:42 Probably got some money.

Speaker 1:13:43 Yeah. But honestly it might be money laundering is what he specializes in.

Joe Rogan 1:13:46 Eh.

Speaker 1:13:46 It's hard to say, so. [chuckles] Might have a nail salon or two under his umbrella as well.

Joe Rogan 1:13:50 They're great when it's warm out.

Speaker 1:13:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:52 But they, the battery life significantly... Do you remember, uh, I think it was Chicago or Detroit, there was a few years back, there was a giant blizzard that hit, and people with electric cars, their cars died on the highway, and they were really fucked.

Speaker 1:14:06 I do remember this. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:07 Yeah, really fucked. 'Cause look, if you have a full tank of gas and you're idling, just idling on the highway, it'll last a pretty long time, especially if it's diesel. Geez.

Speaker 1:14:17 No, you'll get 24 hours out of a tank, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:14:19 100%.

Speaker 1:14:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:20 Yeah. So you'll survive. If you have a fucking electric car and you get stuck on the highway, and it's just bumper to bumper forever, and that thing is the only thing keeping you warm, you better pray that someone lets you in their car-

Speaker 1:14:33 Yep

Joe Rogan 1:14:33 ... 'cause you're gonna die out there. You'll freeze to death in your own fucking car.

Speaker 1:14:37 I like the concept of them, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:14:40 I drove one today. They're... It's a time machine.

Speaker 1:14:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:42 I have a Tesla Model S, the, the, the-

Speaker 1:14:45 Highly... Don't you have, like, a highly modified one of those ones?

Joe Rogan 1:14:47 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:14:48 I was gonna say-

Joe Rogan 1:14:49 That's my ride

Speaker 1:14:49 ... it might say Model S on the outside, but-

Joe Rogan 1:14:51 Yeah. [laughs] Well, the speed is the same as the standard one. The speed is exactly the same, 'cause they don't do anything to the engine-

Speaker 1:14:57 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:14:57 ... because it already has 1,100 horsepower.

Speaker 1:14:59 Didn't they, like, widen yours somehow?

Joe Rogan 1:15:01 Yes. It's, the track is widened. It's got a, a much more robust suspension set up. It's got carbon fiber fenders. It's a company called Unplugged Performance, and they take it, and they just... It just handles phenomenally, and the brakes are way better, so it does that.

Speaker 1:15:16 Can I-

Joe Rogan 1:15:17 But the, the thing about it is the speed that's just insane. Like, when you merge onto a highway, it's a time machine. You just hit the gas, like shoom. And it's no sound, so it's whoosh. And all of a sudden you're going 90 miles an hour, like, like that. [snaps fingers] It's nuts.

Speaker 1:15:33 We're into different things, Joe. I'm gonna stick with my F-150.

Joe Rogan 1:15:36 I like those too. I have one of those.

Speaker 1:15:37 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:15:37 I have a Raptor.

Speaker 1:15:39 Same. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:39 I have a Hennessey Raptor.

Speaker 1:15:40 I don't have that model. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:15:43 Yeah. So I, I like a Raptor, but I like one with 1,000 horsepower. Um-

Speaker 1:15:46 First off, who doesn't? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:15:50 [laughs]

Speaker 1:15:50 I just don't like the price tag associated with the 1,000 horsepower one.

Joe Rogan 1:15:53 Yeah. It is a little pricey.

Speaker 1:15:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:54 But I was on the phone the other day, 'cause, you know, it's got the speakerphone thing, so I'm, I'm on the phone with my friend Tommy and, and I'm driving. He goes, "Yo, what the fuck are you driving?"

Speaker 1:16:02 A dinosaur.

Joe Rogan 1:16:03 You could hear the vroom.

Speaker 1:16:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:06 And the, the, the supercharger whine. It's awesome. But I get it. Uh, a lot... It's not for everybody, but if you drive one, just the ability of those things, just the, the insane capability, the ability to go 0 to 60 in under two seconds is just nuts-

Speaker 1:16:23 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:16:24 ... for a four-door sedan.

Speaker 1:16:25 You know how to drive, though.

Joe Rogan 1:16:27 Yeah.

Speaker 1:16:27 Some people probably are better off not getting into a car that can do that.

Joe Rogan 1:16:31 Well, that's what's weird, right? So, like, if you want... Like, say if you wanna get a concealed carry license, you have to go to a range, and you have to demonstrate that you know how to use a gun correctly.

Speaker 1:16:44 Are you talking about here in Texas?

Joe Rogan 1:16:45 Yeah, in Texas.

Speaker 1:16:46 Because Montana is a constitutional carry state.

Joe Rogan 1:16:47 Well, it's constitutional carry here as well, but still-

Speaker 1:16:50 They have a re-

Joe Rogan 1:16:50 ... concealed carry-

Speaker 1:16:51 They have a requirement

Joe Rogan 1:16:52 ... you get reciprocity.

Speaker 1:16:53 In Texas.

Joe Rogan 1:16:53 So if you have concealed carry, you get reciprocity in Florida, Nevada. So if you get a concealed carry license in Texas, you can go to places where, you know, they're only... Maybe they don't even have concealed... They, they don't have constitutional carry, but they recognize Texas concealed carry laws.

Speaker 1:17:07 Because of the additional-

Joe Rogan 1:17:08 Yeah

Speaker 1:17:09 ... training per se, or-

Joe Rogan 1:17:10 Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1:17:10 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:17:10 But the p- point is, like, you have to show that you know how to use it. You can go buy a Corvette, and you don't have to show anything-

Speaker 1:17:18 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:17:19 ... which is crazy.

Speaker 1:17:20 Well, you have to show a likelihood that you're able to pay for it.

Joe Rogan 1:17:23 That's it. That's it.

Speaker 1:17:24 That is... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:25 So you can get, like, a Corvette ZR1, which is also 1,100 horsepower and fucking bonkers, a bonkers fast, insanely engineered car. You don't have to show that you know how to drive at all.

Speaker 1:17:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:37 You just have to have a driver's license, so you could drive around-

Speaker 1:17:39 Right into the nearest telephone pole.

Joe Rogan 1:17:40 Yeah.

Speaker 1:17:41 Ah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:17:41 [laughs]

Speaker 1:17:42 Sideways.

Joe Rogan 1:17:44 I mean, there's plenty of, plenty of videos of that.

Speaker 1:17:46 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:17:46 A friend- my friend Whitney sent me a video of a street takeover in Los Angeles, uh, this Saturday night, where they took over some street, and gunshots, and people just, they sto- they cut off the entire street so no one can go anywhere. People surround these cars, and the cars drive around in circles.

Speaker 1:18:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:04 And then someone started shooting at people.

Speaker 1:18:07 Awesome. Yeah, what a classic pairing.

Joe Rogan 1:18:09 Yeah. Good times.

Speaker 1:18:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:10 It's good to have rules.

Speaker 1:18:11 Yeah. Yeah, they're not doing that in Montana.

Joe Rogan 1:18:14 Exactly.

Speaker 1:18:14 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:18:15 Exactly. You have to have an enormous amount of people in order for things to get that chaotic with a very small percentage of humans.

Speaker 1:18:23 Were there cops there for that, or they just didn't wanna get in the mix?

Joe Rogan 1:18:26 They didn't show up until after. You know?

Speaker 1:18:28 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:18:29 The, the cops showed up when, you know, people start shooting, and then they got there.

Speaker 1:18:33 That... Yeah, that's generally when they're gonna respond to that.

Joe Rogan 1:18:35 And they're getting security cameras. But the thing is, in Los Angeles, they don't fucking put you in jail for anything. They let you right out. There's no cash bail. They're letting people out for all kinds of crimes.

Speaker 1:18:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:45 I was listening to a podcast where a guy was a former gang member, and he was saying he's leaving Los Angeles because they're letting 70,000 people out of prison. It's like, it's gonna get too dangerous.

Speaker 1:18:55 [laughs] So it was too dangerous for the gang member. There's the answers to some tests right there. Maybe pay attention.

Joe Rogan 1:19:02 Yeah. You wonder, you gotta wonder, like what are they trying to do with California, where everything seems to go in the wrong direction? Like if you, if you look at the vaccine thing, like do you think they're really trying to lower population? Is that what they're trying to do? Like kill off a percent? What are they trying to do with California? Are they really trying to destroy the state? 'Cause if I was trying to destroy a state, that's how I would do it.

Speaker 1:19:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:23 I'd let everybody out of jail. I'd regulate the fuck out of everything so nothing can get done. You know, you can't buy these in California.

Speaker 1:19:32 Why?

Joe Rogan 1:19:33 These are ALPS.

Speaker 1:19:34 Yeah, the nicotine pouches?

Joe Rogan 1:19:34 Because they're flavored. This is wintergreen. Shout out to Tucker Carlson, this is his brand. I like these. These are very delicious.

Speaker 1:19:41 We-

Joe Rogan 1:19:41 Oh, by the way, I, I showed these to Daniel Cormier and he goes, "Where'd you get those?"

Speaker 1:19:44 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:19:45 And I, and I, I go, "In Texas you could buy them." He goes, "You know you can't buy them in California?" And he goes, "I get them and I bring them around all these dads, like, and like I'm a dealer." They're like, "Where'd you get that?" 'Cause they won't let you have flavored nicotine pouches. It's illegal in California.

Speaker 1:20:01 It's for your safety.

Joe Rogan 1:20:01 They're trying to turn you into just a little baby that needs everything from the government. Everything.

Speaker 1:20:09 Everything. We were at that launch party. Somehow I got an invitation to be there. So we go to Tennessee. Tucker is, stands on a chair and talks about ALP, you know how-

Joe Rogan 1:20:17 Stood on a chair?

Speaker 1:20:18 Yeah. 'Cause it was just like, it was in Dave Ramsey's barn. And again, like I'm so far not in the social circle of this, and so we listen-

Joe Rogan 1:20:25 I think he should've sat on someone's shoulders. That would've been even better.

Speaker 1:20:28 He's pretty big, so you're gonna needed somebody who like has squatted once or twice in their life [laughs] .

Joe Rogan 1:20:33 [laughs]

Speaker 1:20:33 So we listened to him talk, and they had a little, like on the other room was a huge fireplace, was just this like a charcuterie table about this size. So I'm getting some cheese, and then I turn around and I'm like, "Hello, Mel Gibson." And then just fucking went and sat in the corner. I was so uncomfortable [laughs] in that environment.

Joe Rogan 1:20:49 'Cause Mel was there?

Speaker 1:20:51 Mel w- there was a lot of people there. I just... You know, you've sat down and talked with him. You, you exist in a different orbit than I do. I exist in an orbit of 1.1 million total people that I don't see every day.

Joe Rogan 1:21:01 In the state. Yeah.

Speaker 1:21:02 In the state. So like I interact with the people I want to. I was not prepared to have a cheese stick and turn around and see the dude from Lethal Weapon standing there.

Joe Rogan 1:21:09 [laughs]

Speaker 1:21:10 Like, "Hi. I gotta get out of here." And it's-

Joe Rogan 1:21:12 By the way, if you talk to him, he's a, he is one of the most normal, easy to talk to movie stars you will ever meet.

Speaker 1:21:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21:19 He has no airs about him. He's very easy to talk to.

Speaker 1:21:22 I just don't do good in social situations like that, where like everybody was relatively recognizable. I just, I could sit in the corner and I hang out with my wife and we eat charcuterie.

Joe Rogan 1:21:31 I get it. I get it. I don't like those things either, believe it or not.

Speaker 1:21:35 It's... Well, I have, I have been... Do you remember the event you did at Performance Archery in San Diego?

Joe Rogan 1:21:42 Oh yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:21:43 I, I didn't realize, uh, I watched you trying to make your way to the bathroom, and it took you about 30 minutes-

Joe Rogan 1:21:52 [laughs]

Speaker 1:21:52 ... to go 20 feet, and I don't know how you deal with that. I don't, that's, I mean, one, I know you well enough outside of that, like you're a, a genuinely nice person, and you will give people the time to like, because you're appreciative, right, over the fact that they wanna meet you. Like, I totally get that. But also, sometimes you have to piss.

Joe Rogan 1:22:09 Yeah.

Speaker 1:22:10 I mean, I don't know how any of those people, or maybe you don't, operate, uh, in like in a sense in air quotes of normalcy.

Joe Rogan 1:22:18 It's not normal, but the way I think of it is like they just like me. It's way better than if they hated me.

Speaker 1:22:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:27 Way better than if you go into the bathroom and everybody wants to kick your ass. Like they're, I'm going to the bathroom, they just wanna say hi. And for them it's a very unique moment, so I try to reset every time I see a new person, and I try to treat them as if it's like this is a comp- this, for them-

Speaker 1:22:44 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:22:44 ... it's a unique experience. They get to meet... And, and never believe that it, I am unique. You know, don't believe the hype and don't think you are special, but always appreciate the fact that someone else does.

Speaker 1:22:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:57 And so take the time to say hi. And I can't, the UFCs are hard because I can't. Like sometimes I'm going through the crowd and I, and I have to, like sometimes I'll, I'll leave my commentary seat-

Speaker 1:23:09 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:23:09 ... and then I have to take a piss, and then I have to run back.

Speaker 1:23:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:12 And then everybody's trying to get a picture while you're, you know, like you're literally going through a crowd of people.

Speaker 1:23:16 You're talking about in between bouts?

Joe Rogan 1:23:17 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:23:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:18 And so like, I, I high five people, but, and they're like, "Can I have a picture?"

Speaker 1:23:21 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:23:21 And I'm like, "I can't. I can't. I can't." And I can't stop because-

Speaker 1:23:24 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:23:24 ... if I stop, then they'll all swarm, and I c- I just, I can't do that. I have to keep moving. So I have to, I, I, that bothers me that I have to say I can't stop. Even when I'm leaving the venue, they're like, "Can you take a picture?" I can't. I can't. I have to keep moving. I'm sorry. I appreciate you, but I can't stop.

Speaker 1:23:39 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:23:39 'Cause if I stop, I'll never get out of here.

Speaker 1:23:41 I've been to one of those, and, uh, we were at UFC 300.

Joe Rogan 1:23:45 That was a good one.

Speaker 1:23:46 Uh, it wa- your seat was good. You had a good seat. I watched the fight from the back of a projection onto one of the [laughs] the things up in one of the, the UFC-

Joe Rogan 1:23:54 Well, you didn't get tickets from me. You should-

Speaker 1:23:56 I'm, I'm never gonna ask you for tickets, by the way.

Joe Rogan 1:23:58 Well, well, well, well just fucking let me know when you wanna go.

Speaker 1:24:00 Well, well no, actually I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:24:01 I'll get you tickets

Speaker 1:24:02 ... wanna go because-

Joe Rogan 1:24:03 Okay

Speaker 1:24:03 ... I missed listening to you guys talk.

Joe Rogan 1:24:07 Yeah.

Speaker 1:24:07 I didn't realize-

Joe Rogan 1:24:08 That's a factor

Speaker 1:24:08 ... so we were sitting there, and it like, I heard Gaethje get flatlined before we saw it, and I, like holy cow. You wanna talk about not like the punch, but the reaction to that.

Joe Rogan 1:24:18 Right.

Speaker 1:24:19 Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 1:24:20 Insane.

Speaker 1:24:20 But there was so many people, and we were there with like Jocko and Origin, and, and, uh, there had some people that were down there a little. But we ended up, Lee and I ended up watching from like the back. So we got to see it, but we both said the same thing. It's way better on the couch or I want a pair of headsets like this so I can listen.

Joe Rogan 1:24:35 Yeah.

Speaker 1:24:36 Because now, like let me be honest, before I started training jujitsu, I was like, "You fucking stand him up right now."

Joe Rogan 1:24:42 [laughs]

Speaker 1:24:43 Those guys are just, those-

Joe Rogan 1:24:44 But, well now-

Speaker 1:24:46 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:24:46 ... as a jujitsu black belt, aren't you embarrassed by your old self?

Speaker 1:24:50 Now I'm like, you don't let... And be like, that guy-

Joe Rogan 1:24:51 Right. Yes

Speaker 1:24:51 ... you're in that position, you don't ever get them off the cage-

Joe Rogan 1:24:54 Yes

Speaker 1:24:54 ... and you never get them off the ground.

Joe Rogan 1:24:55 I, I'm with you. I, I've been preaching that from the beginning of the fucking sport.

Speaker 1:24:59 Oh, I would've been the dude with like the red neck Guzzler Coors Light half covered-

Joe Rogan 1:25:03 [laughs]

Speaker 1:25:03 ... and they're like, "Fucking stand him up." 'Cause it, like-

Joe Rogan 1:25:06 Right

Speaker 1:25:06 ... and now I'm like, no, no, no.

Joe Rogan 1:25:09 Never.

Speaker 1:25:09 Especially when they're sweaty. Oh my God.

Joe Rogan 1:25:11 Exactly.

Speaker 1:25:11 Like if that guy's dominating him, you stay right there.

Joe Rogan 1:25:14 Exactly. It's so hard to get someone to the ground.

Speaker 1:25:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:16 And it's so hard to hold them down if they're good.

Speaker 1:25:18 The experience though from-

Joe Rogan 1:25:20 Not good

Speaker 1:25:20 ... I am gonna say this.

Joe Rogan 1:25:21 Yeah.

Speaker 1:25:22 I would rather pay for the Paramount than listen-- or for the pay-per-view than the current Paramount+ experience. Sorry, Dana, but the commercials suck.

Joe Rogan 1:25:29 Yeah, I'm not a fan of commercials. That's why I like YouTube Premium. I don't want commercials.

Speaker 1:25:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:34 Yeah. I'm not-

Speaker 1:25:34 I'll pay, I'll pay for the pay-per-view. But-

Joe Rogan 1:25:36 They should offer Paramount+ Premium, like where you get no commercials. Like you should get a different experience for the UFC.

Speaker 1:25:43 There's been some streaming issues as well too, and I think-

Joe Rogan 1:25:45 Really?

Speaker 1:25:45 And I know the... Yeah, it's, there's... Well, it could also be [scoffs] I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:25:49 Montana internet?

Speaker 1:25:50 Listen, we have electricity.

Joe Rogan 1:25:51 [laughs]

Speaker 1:25:51 We have running water. We, I've actually seen solar panels up in Montana. They don't work great for nine months out of the year, but-

Joe Rogan 1:25:58 Do you have the Starlink?

Speaker 1:25:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:59 That's the shit.

Speaker 1:26:00 I was actually one of the first people to get it in Montana, and it works fantastic.

Joe Rogan 1:26:04 I, I, I have the little one that's like a book.

Speaker 1:26:06 Yeah. It's amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:26:07 And it's fucking great.

Speaker 1:26:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:26:08 You just take it... We, I took it to Utah. We were, we were streaming like stuff while we're-

Speaker 1:26:13 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:26:13 ... in the c- the cabins. It was awesome.

Speaker 1:26:15 It's kinda life-changing.

Joe Rogan 1:26:16 Oh, it's great.

Speaker 1:26:17 And then sometimes I have, I need to-

Joe Rogan 1:26:18 You can FaceTime with people.

Speaker 1:26:19 Yeah. But then other times, like I'm gonna leave that in the truck, 'cause otherwise maybe I'm just gonna enjoy where I'm at.

Joe Rogan 1:26:23 That's true. But the, you know, the thing about elk hunting is you're so tired by the end of the day that you're not gonna sit there looking at your phone anyway. But it's nice to be able to FaceTime home and say hi to people.

Speaker 1:26:35 Yeah, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:26:36 But I do like the fact that when you're out there in the woods, it doesn't work at all.

Speaker 1:26:40 Yeah. Yeah, that is, uh... God, I hate hunting sometimes, like last year.

Joe Rogan 1:26:47 Did you strike out last year?

Speaker 1:26:48 Oh, no. Even worse. Wounded an elk.

Joe Rogan 1:26:51 Oh, no.

Speaker 1:26:52 I tell, I think I texted you.

Joe Rogan 1:26:52 Oh yeah, it's with a rifle too.

Speaker 1:26:54 Yeah. Well, I tell people that I am the Navy SEAL sniper with the most confirmed misses.

Joe Rogan 1:26:58 [laughs]

Speaker 1:26:59 'Cause I can just smash that trigger back, close your eyes, hold your breath, let it gray out a little bit, and then really just jerk it.

Joe Rogan 1:27:05 Ugh, that's the worst feeling, when you know you could've done it so much better if you just had taken a little bit more time.

Speaker 1:27:11 It would've been hard for me to do it worse, Joe, if I'm being honest. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:27:16 Fuck.

Speaker 1:27:16 People are like, "How could you possibly miss?" Because I'm a idiot sometimes, and I'm just... God. As I was pulling on the trigger, I was watching it just drift back towards the beginning of the guts. And instead of just stopping, just gave it a little bit more and then-

Joe Rogan 1:27:30 [laughs]

Speaker 1:27:30 ... never saw the thing. Looked for it for two and a half days.

Joe Rogan 1:27:33 Oh.

Speaker 1:27:33 Is there a worse feeling in the world-

Joe Rogan 1:27:35 No

Speaker 1:27:35 ... than wounding an animal?

Joe Rogan 1:27:37 No.

Speaker 1:27:37 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:27:38 There's, there's not. And it's also, like, a miss like that, you have to wait a year to get another chance. You have a whole nother year to sit about and think about that miss before you get back to hunting again.

Speaker 1:27:52 This year I think I might be able to go back to archery, because although they call jujitsu the gentle art, I get banged up sometimes.

Joe Rogan 1:27:59 Oh, bro.

Speaker 1:27:59 I was r- I was rifle hunting that year. I was training with a 15-year-old young man at the end of a day of training with some savage black belts. Totally, and, uh, you know how when you say when you first start, like, "Hey, you need to relax"? Well, I also found that you can relax too much. I was laying on my side, letting him work on an armbar.

Joe Rogan 1:28:17 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:28:18 Got ahold of my arm. I was gonna work on an escape, and as my arm was coming up over my head, I heard my shoulder cavitate.

Joe Rogan 1:28:26 Ooh.

Speaker 1:28:26 It was like a... And of course on my drawing arm for my bow.

Joe Rogan 1:28:29 Right.

Speaker 1:28:29 And we were a, a couple months away from hunting season. Felt it go, partial tear of the pec, completely black and blue. It was-

Joe Rogan 1:28:36 Oh.

Speaker 1:28:37 The gentle art.

Joe Rogan 1:28:38 There's nothing gentle about jujitsu.

Speaker 1:28:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:40 It's ridiculous to call it that. I don't know who, what psychopath called it the gentle art. I was, I've been hurt more ti- everybody I know that's done jujitsu as long as I have has, like, either artificial discs in their back and neck-

Speaker 1:28:51 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:28:52 ... or has had multiple knee surgeries. That's me.

Speaker 1:28:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:28:54 I've had three. Or has had torn shoulders where they had to get reconstructed or blown out elbows.

Speaker 1:29:01 Yeah. Do you still train?

Joe Rogan 1:29:03 No, I haven't in a while. I want to, though.

Speaker 1:29:05 Yeah. I forget-

Joe Rogan 1:29:06 I did a little bit of training about a, a year ago with Gabe Tuttle, and I was getting back into it, but I still struggle with this one knee. I have one knee that keeps fucking up on me, man.

Speaker 1:29:16 For you, it would be very hard to find the appropriate training partner.

Joe Rogan 1:29:19 Yes.

Speaker 1:29:19 Like you're never going to a group class again and getting in there at open mat. People would come for your head 'cause they're assholes.

Joe Rogan 1:29:25 Yeah, but I always did. That's what I always did.

Speaker 1:29:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:27 I never, I always trained... I n- I didn't just, like, only train with, like, one guy that, like, stuck with all the time. I always went to classes.

Speaker 1:29:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:29:37 'Cause I think that's the only way to really be good. I don't think there's a real way to train with one person that's, like, taking it easy on you and really achieve a high level. I think you have to go in there with people that are gonna tap you, and you have to go in there with people that are trying to tap you, you know? And, you know, if you're good and if you're strong, you can avoid a lotta shit, but, you know, you get in there with some fucking 25-year-old wrestler who weighs 210 pounds and is built like a superhero.

Speaker 1:30:07 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:30:09 It's rough.

Speaker 1:30:09 Who moves at a speed that your joints and ligaments can't move at. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:30:12 Yeah. It's just like I, I can't keep up. You're on my back. I can't keep up with this. This is... And, and if I do keep up, I'm gonna blow something out.

Speaker 1:30:19 Since I found it at 41, I don't think we should teach it to anybody under 30, 'cause it deeply offends me when children-

Joe Rogan 1:30:26 Uh

Speaker 1:30:26 ... come out of the children's class-

Joe Rogan 1:30:28 [laughs]

Speaker 1:30:28 ... and they've been training, like, six times longer than I. I'm like, "What?"

Joe Rogan 1:30:31 Uh.

Speaker 1:30:32 It do- like, their movement patterns were developed on the mat. I'm like, I, we're not-

Joe Rogan 1:30:36 I know

Speaker 1:30:36 ... we're using the same alphabet, but we are not putting together the same words.

Joe Rogan 1:30:39 Well, I knew that from striking, because I knew that from kicking. I was like, I started martial arts before my body had matured, and my body matured becoming very flexible and very fast. And so as I got thicker, I maintained that speed and everything. But I was like, I don't know if you could ever get as good as I got if you didn't start when I started. I don't know if it's possible. And I didn't start jujitsu till I was 30. And when I started doing jujitsu, I remember thinking, "God, I wish I did this when I was a kid."

Speaker 1:31:08 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:31:08 'Cause I see some kids where their fucking scrambles and their transitions, like, built into their neurons, where they're just like, everything is so fast and so kinetic, and they're just moving and flowing. Like, fuck.

Speaker 1:31:22 I could've started in, like, '97, but the few people who were doing it were so enthusiastic, it nauti- just nauseated me.

Joe Rogan 1:31:31 Like, it's like veganism

Speaker 1:31:32 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:31:33 Like, they turn-

Speaker 1:31:33 They're like, "Dude"

Joe Rogan 1:31:33 ... make you wanna eat meat

Speaker 1:31:34 "Come roll with us." I'm like, "I don't know what you guys are doing."

Joe Rogan 1:31:37 Ah.

Speaker 1:31:37 "It's very questionably gay at best from the outside."

Joe Rogan 1:31:40 [laughs]

Speaker 1:31:41 "I don't like how much you like it. Because you like it that much, I'm out."

Joe Rogan 1:31:45 [laughs]

Speaker 1:31:45 And then I look back, I'm like, "Ugh." I-

Joe Rogan 1:31:47 I started in '96. Yeah.

Speaker 1:31:51 Not me.

Joe Rogan 1:31:53 I guess, I think, uh, yeah, it was '95 or '96. It was right after UFC 2 came out on video. So UFC 2 was... '93 was the UFC. I found out about UFC in like, I didn't find out about it in '93. I found out about it a year later, and it wasn't available. Not- UFC 1 was not available on VHS. I had to get UFC 2.

Speaker 1:32:16 Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:32:16 And I found out about it from somebody at the kickboxing gym that I was going to. He was like, "You gotta see this." And I was like, "What is this?" I was like, "Oh my God, they did it." Because there was always this thing when I was a martial artist when I was young, like, what's better? Judo, karate? And no one knew. And then there was, like, the Jean-Claude Van Damme kumite movies where you'll, you meet and all the styles come together, and you find out what's best. But when I first saw UFC 2, I was like, "Oh my God, they did it." And then I was like, "Oh my God, I don't know that." [laughs] This one guy's killing everybody.

Speaker 1:32:46 There's a lot of people that were saying that in those-

Joe Rogan 1:32:49 Yeah

Speaker 1:32:49 ... single-digit ones.

Joe Rogan 1:32:50 Oh my God.

Speaker 1:32:51 So then what number UFC did you first commentate at?

Joe Rogan 1:32:53 UFC 12. That-

Speaker 1:32:55 Damn, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:32:56 Yeah.

Speaker 1:32:56 That's a pretty quick... Well, they probably were doing less frequently as well, but that's a pretty quick flash to bang.

Joe Rogan 1:33:00 Yeah. It was-

Speaker 1:33:00 Seeing it on a VHS and then being-

Joe Rogan 1:33:01 That was '97. So by '97, I guess I was 30? Yeah. I guess I was 30, somewhere around there. So that was the first UFC that I com- and I was already training at that time. I was training at Carlson Gracie's with, uh, Vitor Belfort.

Speaker 1:33:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:33:19 There was, uh, Vitor Belfort was there, Murilo Bustamante was there. Like, oh, like, it was amazing. Just stumbled upon that place. I actually went to Rickson's first, but I, I was so ignorant, I thought Carlson Gracie, Rickson Gracie, I thought it was the same.

Speaker 1:33:33 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:33:33 And Rickson was further away.

Speaker 1:33:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:33:37 And Carlson's was closer. I was like, "Oh, I found a closer Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. I'll go here." And then it was also the time where extreme fighting was out, which was John Perretti, who was one of the commentators for the early UFC, was now doing this, and it was really good. Like, Mario Sperry was fighting, Igor Zinoviev, and these guys, a lot of these guys were from Carlson Gracie. So I saw the Carlson Gracie, the two bulldog logos, which is fucking dope, and then I found out that it was on Hawthorne Street in LA, which is, like, really close to The Comedy Store. I was like-

Speaker 1:34:09 Mm

Joe Rogan 1:34:09 ... "Oh, this is perfect." 'Cause I was living in North Hollywood. I would just drive there. It was much closer.

Speaker 1:34:13 Yeah. Efficiency, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34:14 It was much closer. But I just, I got there at literally the perfect time, 'cause it was right before Vitor was making his UFC debut, which was UFC 12, which w- I commentated at. So I was literally training at the same school as Vitor, so I knew what to expect. I'm like, "These guys don't know what the fuck this guy's doing."

Speaker 1:34:32 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:34:32 Like, this is, this... 'Cause everybody thought he was just a jujitsu guy.

Speaker 1:34:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34:35 And meanwhile, he had lightning hands. And, you know, it was a slimmer Vitor. He was only, like, 200 pounds back then, and just moved like a fucking panther. And I got to see this sport just sort of emerging, where it really, it was becoming something completely different. Like, at first it was just a bunch of people that didn't know anything, and, you know, there was... Or they didn't know anything about mixed martial arts. They either know judo or they know karate. And then there was Royce, and Royce is just tapping everybody. And everybody's like, "Oh my God, jujitsu is the way." And then when I went to Carlson's, I was like, "Jujitsu's kind of the way, but look at this guy. Like, you gotta take that guy to the ground, and that guy's hands are like a fucking professional boxer's. This is crazy."

Speaker 1:35:17 Yeah. Jujitsu is awesome. It's not complete.

Joe Rogan 1:35:21 No.

Speaker 1:35:21 You can have a nice black belt-

Joe Rogan 1:35:23 No

Speaker 1:35:23 ... and end up in an ambulance if you can't get through striking range.

Joe Rogan 1:35:26 Well, not only that, there's a lot of guys that were really reliant upon the gi back then, unfortunately. 'Cause this is all, you gotta realize, this is all before Abu Dhabi, right? So this is, uh, before Abu Dhabi Combat Club came out, which was an a- amazing organization that paid real money to grapplers to compete, but made them compete without a gi.

Speaker 1:35:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:35:45 Which was, like, for a lot of guys, they didn't know what to do. They're so used to grabbing sleeves and grabbing collars and grabbing pants. And the one guy who had figured it out was my eventual instructor, Jean-Jacques Machado, because Jean-Jacques was born with essentially one hand. His left hand is just a thumb.

Speaker 1:36:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:36:05 He just has a thumb. He had a birth defect. And because of that, his game was all overhooks and underhooks and gable grips, which was, he wasn't relying on collars and all this other stuff.

Speaker 1:36:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:16 So his game was very different. He just dominated in Abu Dhabi, and that opened up the door to Eddie Bravo. So Eddie Bravo, he learned a lot of his techniques from Jean-Jacques as well, and a lot of his style was based around Jean-Jacques' principles, which is don't rely on the gi, 'cause you don't always have the gi. It's a good tool to use if you have it.

Speaker 1:36:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:36 If you're fighting a guy who's got a winter coat on, it's awesome. Like, the last thing you wanna do is fight a judo guy if you're wearing a winter coat. [laughs]

Speaker 1:36:43 So not optimal for how your head's gonna feel when it hits the concrete.

Joe Rogan 1:36:47 [laughs] Yeah, and you, you ain't gonna be able to do shit to stop that.

Speaker 1:36:52 I re- I asked you early on, I think we had linked up when I w- it was actually, it was right at the beginning of COVID. I was a white belt, and I asked you how you train and manage, uh, grip stuff. And you gave me a piece of advice that I still ha- I still utilize. And you said, "Whether you have a gi on or don't have a gi on, just focus on taking no-gi grips."

Joe Rogan 1:37:08 Yes.

Speaker 1:37:08 I was like, "Son of a bitch."

Joe Rogan 1:37:09 Yeah. That's what I always did.

Speaker 1:37:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:11 I, the only gi technique that I really love is the clock choke. You know, when you get a, a-

Speaker 1:37:16 Oh

Joe Rogan 1:37:16 ... a deep grip on the collar-

Speaker 1:37:19 Yep

Joe Rogan 1:37:19 ... and you funnel that left arm underneath and spin. Oh my God, that's instant death. That clock choke-

Speaker 1:37:26 I prefer-

Joe Rogan 1:37:26 ... is so nasty

Speaker 1:37:27 ... I prefer the cross collar.

Joe Rogan 1:37:28 That's great, too.

Speaker 1:37:29 It's available for more areas.

Joe Rogan 1:37:30 Oh, for sure.

Speaker 1:37:31 Just pop that head right off.

Joe Rogan 1:37:33 Oh.

Speaker 1:37:33 Just-

Joe Rogan 1:37:33 Cross collar is nasty.

Speaker 1:37:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:34 There's a lot of great, great g- gi, gi techniques that are super... effective if someone's wearing clothes.

Speaker 1:37:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:41 I mean, you'd, you'd be amazed at how, how durable T-shirts are. You know, you could really choke the fuck out of someone with a T-shirt on.

Speaker 1:37:50 So Henner has a video where he'll get the first hand in. He's got him in close guard. He reaches over and he grabs the bottom of the shirt, pulls it all the way up, and then wraps that around his leg.

Joe Rogan 1:37:59 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1:38:01 It's gotta feel like a garrote wire.

Joe Rogan 1:38:02 Yeah.

Speaker 1:38:03 Just pop.

Joe Rogan 1:38:03 Horrible.

Speaker 1:38:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:04 Yeah, horrible. And especially if they're wearing like a strong shirt, like a flannel shirt or something like that, something you can really grab.

Speaker 1:38:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:12 Yeah. But, but that was Jean-Jacques' style. His style was use no-gi grips even with the gi. So for me, it made me concentrate more on defense because you couldn't pull out of things as easily.

Speaker 1:38:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:26 But I never felt lost going into no-gi. So I would go back and forth all the time. So, you know, I got my black belt from Eddie first, but I got my black belt from Jean-Jacques right after that, 'cause I was training at both places. That was also a beautiful thing about Eddie being Jean-Jacques' student and them having a very close relationship. There was... It never felt like you were a traitor that you left schools, 'cause I never really left schools. I trained at both places.

Speaker 1:38:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:38:50 I always trained at Jean-Jacques' and I always trained at Eddie's.

Speaker 1:38:53 You went to Criance, is that what they call it?

Joe Rogan 1:38:55 Yeah. Is that what they call it? Yeah.

Speaker 1:38:56 Yeah, I think so.

Joe Rogan 1:38:56 Yeah. So it was n- it was... That was very nice that they had that amazing relationship where there was no static at all. It was like I would go to see Jean-Jacques, I'd go train there a couple days a week. I'd train at Eddie's a couple days a week. It was awesome.

Speaker 1:39:09 Yeah, if I had a time machine and if my younger self would listen to me, which I don't think I would, I would say two things. One, buy Bitcoin, obviously.

Joe Rogan 1:39:16 [laughs]

Speaker 1:39:17 And two, maybe get into jiu-jitsu a little bit earlier. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:39:19 Yeah. But I think you, what you did was pretty impressive, 'cause you, you got through it very quickly. Like I remember you first started training and, you know, you got a black belt in like what, four years, five years?

Speaker 1:39:32 Five and a half.

Joe Rogan 1:39:33 That's amazing.

Speaker 1:39:34 Well-

Joe Rogan 1:39:34 That's quick

Speaker 1:39:35 ... well, I think it depends on how you view the time. So I think the standard 10-year, uh, window is usually somebody trains about an hour a day or two hours a day twice a week.

Joe Rogan 1:39:45 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:39:46 I had the ability where I was living, I could train 10 times a week-

Joe Rogan 1:39:50 Mm

Speaker 1:39:50 ... for as long as I want to, right? So the math's still maths at the end of the day.

Joe Rogan 1:39:53 Right, but that's still very hard on the body at 40 years old. It's very hard on the body.

Speaker 1:39:58 Vitamin I, also known as ibuprofen, comes into the training model.

Joe Rogan 1:40:02 That shit's terrible for you.

Speaker 1:40:03 Yeah, but it makes you feel better. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:40:05 It's so bad for you, though.

Speaker 1:40:06 Also-

Joe Rogan 1:40:07 It's so bad for your gut

Speaker 1:40:08 ... I will say this, one thing about my previous job is it teaches you how to learn.

Joe Rogan 1:40:11 Mm.

Speaker 1:40:11 It rewards, it rewards your ability to, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:40:15 Be coachable

Speaker 1:40:16 ... be coachable. And I... People ask me, you know, "How do you, how are you, how can you be a good student?" Just in general. I'm like, "Listen, how about this? Do what your instructor says and nothing more."

Joe Rogan 1:40:26 Right.

Speaker 1:40:26 If they say, "Put your hand here," and you ask them, "Do you mean always put it there?" And they say, "Yes," just put your hand there.

Joe Rogan 1:40:31 Yeah.

Speaker 1:40:32 If you want to... And I, you know, people, there's, the internet's an amazing thing, right? And there's a bunch of ability to go out and look for techniques and stuff. But I can't think of anything more disrespectful to a coach to be told something and then you are offering them something that you saw on Instagram while they're trying to teach you. Like, that's how that relationship is gonna end up breaking. If you really wanna accelerate your learning, focus... And honor your coach, actually. Focus on what they are trying to tell you to do. Do only that and no more until you have that mastered, and then you can move on top of that.

Joe Rogan 1:40:59 Absolutely. That's great advice. Y- yeah, you have to just listen. You have to listen and never question. And then if you... Unless you have a bad coach, and then just get a good coach.

Speaker 1:41:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:41:09 That's the solution to that.

Speaker 1:41:10 Which in this era you have choices.

Joe Rogan 1:41:13 Oh, God, yeah.

Speaker 1:41:13 The era that you were starting in, there weren't as many choices.

Joe Rogan 1:41:15 Right. Yeah. Well, I realized that when I went to Jean-Jacques' place, that there's levels in teaching and, you know, obviously Hickson's school was very high level, and Carlson's was too, but Carlson's went under pretty quickly. They weren't around that long. But then when I went to Jean-Jacques', I was like, "Okay, this is a completely different level." Like, Jean-Jacques is so detail-oriented. I was also very lucky that I started doing taekwondo when I was a child, so that I always listened.

Speaker 1:41:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:41:44 You know, I li- And the, the, the m- the traditional martial arts environment, the, the, there's no room for questioning. They don't allow any que- And I was also very lucky that the school that I started at was one of the best schools in the world. I just got lucky. I found this, this-

Speaker 1:41:59 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:41:59 ... Jehan Taekwondo, Jehan Kim Taekwondo Institute in Boston, just happened to have multiple national champions, m- like really elite competitors. And so I never questioned. I always did e- And I, I never did anything half-assed. I always did it exactly... That's how you develop the right technique.

Speaker 1:42:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:18 You have to just-

Speaker 1:42:19 Well, it's how you accelerate learning, too. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:42:21 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:42:21 ... and a- 'cause again, people ask me about my old job, like, "Well, how do you, how do you guys do all this stuff that you do?" Well, you learn it a piece at a time, and honestly, it's the mastery of fundamentals.

Joe Rogan 1:42:30 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:42:30 Even at that, it, uh, I think what I determined the most when my coach gave me my black belt was that I don't know a goddamn thing about jiu-jitsu, and I can't keep up with all the flashy, sporty stuff, but the better fundamentals get, the better you can tolerate a lot of that stuff. It just, the, the mastery-

Joe Rogan 1:42:47 Sure

Speaker 1:42:47 ... of the fundamentals is just so essential.

Joe Rogan 1:42:49 Well, some of the elite guys of all time never did any of the flashy stuff, like Hickson. Hickson was just the fundamentals honed to a razor-sharp edge.

Speaker 1:42:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:59 You don't see Hickson doing some stuff, you're like, "Oh, I've never seen that before." It's all triangles, arm bars, rear naked choke, and just done to perfection.

Speaker 1:43:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:43:08 D- done in a way that black belts can't stop it.

Speaker 1:43:12 No, I've heard stories of him lining black belts up-

Joe Rogan 1:43:14 Mm-hmm

Speaker 1:43:14 ... telling them what he is going to catch them with-

Joe Rogan 1:43:17 Yep

Speaker 1:43:17 ... and then having like 10 of them watch him catch everybody before them with the same thing, and them having absolutely no ability to stop it.

Joe Rogan 1:43:24 Yep.

Speaker 1:43:25 That's what I'm talking about.

Joe Rogan 1:43:26 Yeah. Well, that's Gordon Ryan, too. Gordon Ryan-

Speaker 1:43:29 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:43:29 ... one of the things that Gordon did, I was there when he did it, w- one of the times he did it. He did it multiple times. He would write down on a piece of paper how he was gonna submit his opponent and seal it in an envelope, and before the match started, he would walk over to the commentators and say, "Open this when it's over."And then, you know, you would see him catch somebody in a triangle, and then he would open up the envelope and it showed a triangle. And he had multiple opportunities to catch someone in different things.

Speaker 1:43:55 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:43:55 And he's like, "No, no, no."

Speaker 1:43:57 See, I could do that too, but it would be what I'm gonna get caught with.

Joe Rogan 1:44:00 [laughs]

Speaker 1:44:00 Here's the most likely thing that I'm gonna mess up and get caught with. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:44:04 Well, that's the thing about starting when you're 40 versus starting when you're 12-

Speaker 1:44:08 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:44:08 ... or whatever it is. It's like you're only going, you're only going to be able to get to a certain height, you know?

Speaker 1:44:14 Well, also, I recognize that I'm an aggressive hobbyist. I have n- I've competed twice, only because my wife was coaching at tournaments, and I was like, "Well, I'll go spend time with you," so here we are. I think, uh, once when I was a white belt and once when I was a purple belt, like that's it. I don't care about the competition. Shockingly enough, I'm not looking to have a violent confrontation with anyone, ever.

Joe Rogan 1:44:34 Right.

Speaker 1:44:34 Totally, totally have filled my cup up with that one. Probably has spilled over a little bit from time to time, like... I just do it because I really like the community. I like the fact you can't master it, so you can keep your brain young with your body young, or young, as young as possible. And, uh, yeah, it's just fun.

Joe Rogan 1:44:50 It's really f- it's so addictive, which is... To me was the problem with injuries, was that I would always find, I'd go, "I'll work around it," and I'd just go in with injuries, and then they'd get a- aggravated to the point where... You know, I remember one time my fingers were getting numb-

Speaker 1:45:06 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:45:07 ... because my neck was so fucked up that my fingers were numb, and then I'm like, "Okay, I gotta do something."

Speaker 1:45:12 Was this from you head and arm choking people?

Joe Rogan 1:45:14 It was a lot of that.

Speaker 1:45:15 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:45:15 Yeah.

Speaker 1:45:15 I remember you telling me your affinities. You're like, "You've really gotta just drive your head." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:45:18 You gotta use your neck.

Speaker 1:45:20 Until-

Joe Rogan 1:45:20 Yeah, and also not tapping.

Speaker 1:45:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:22 Not, not tapping to-

Speaker 1:45:23 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:45:23 ... certain neck cranks and different things that fuck your neck up.

Speaker 1:45:27 Neck cranks are very real.

Joe Rogan 1:45:28 Yeah. I also didn't work my neck enough back then. I didn't have an Iron Neck, that machine.

Speaker 1:45:34 Do you still use that thing?

Joe Rogan 1:45:35 That halo... Oh, yeah. I fucking love that thing.

Speaker 1:45:37 Is it forward and back and turn or all those things?

Joe Rogan 1:45:39 Yeah. So it's a halo.

Speaker 1:45:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:40 You sit it on your chest, and you pump it up like the Reebok Pump, ch, ch, ch, ch. And then the chin strap, you tighten that bitch down, and you can adjust the tension that is required to spin it, and it has this giant bungee cord on it. And so the bungee cord is, like, 50 pounds of resistance, so you back up with the bungee cord till it's, like, fully taut.

Speaker 1:45:57 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:45:58 And then you go like this. Eh, eh, eh, eh. I, I swear by that thing.

Speaker 1:46:04 All right.

Joe Rogan 1:46:04 It keeps your neck strong as fuck, and I don't have any neck problems anymore, and I had a lot of fucking neck problems. So the thing that saved me, though, was Regenokine, which is, like, this PRP, platelet-rich plasma to the next level, th-this, this treatment that a lot of guys were having to go to Germany to get in the, in the early days. They would go... Like, I remember Kobe Bryant went to Germany. I think Peyton Manning went. A bunch of guys had to go to Germany to get this treatment. And it's like they take your blood, and through some process, I forget exactly how they do it, it makes this fluid that is, like, this radically, uh, inflammation-fighting fluid. And, um, they injected it into my neck, and it cured my bulging discs, and all my-

Speaker 1:46:50 Damn

Joe Rogan 1:46:50 ... numbness went away, and I got to start training again once I got back. But again, I didn't have a fucking Iron Neck back then. If I had that machine back then, I think I could have avoided a lot of the problems.

Speaker 1:47:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:01 Like, a lot of the problems that people have with lower backs, I firmly believe it's a lack of building tissue and strength and mobility around your lower back. And I do a lot of lower back exercises too. I do a lot of rotation exercises and a lot of, like, reverse hypers. You know, like, that machine?

Speaker 1:47:20 That machine's awesome.

Joe Rogan 1:47:21 Oh, that's... I did that today. That fucking keeps your back so strong and healthy, and it decompresses at the same time that it strengthens.

Speaker 1:47:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:30 And, you know, so many guys just go into the class. They just c- that's their workout. Their only workout is training, and those guys are always hurt. They're always getting hurt. I think strength training and mobility training is essential if you wanna have longevity in jujitsu. I really think that.

Speaker 1:47:45 I would agree.

Joe Rogan 1:47:46 Yeah.

Speaker 1:47:46 Yeah, for the first couple years it was a workout in and of itself, and I finally have started... I think I'm done with, uh, barbells just because I've never seen a linear object equally loaded in real life outside of a gym, so...

Joe Rogan 1:47:58 There's some things with barbells, though, like Olympic-style stuff, like cleans-

Speaker 1:48:03 I can do those-

Joe Rogan 1:48:03 ... that are very beneficial

Speaker 1:48:04 ... kettlebells, though, too.

Joe Rogan 1:48:05 You can. Zerchers, though. Zerchers are only available with a barbell.

Speaker 1:48:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:09 And I think zerchers are very, very important. I think that's a big one.

Speaker 1:48:15 I'm willing to accept-

Joe Rogan 1:48:16 Jefferson squats. There's a, there's a bunch of different st- things you... But zerchers in particular are really good for grappling.

Speaker 1:48:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:23 You know, because you've got that barbell that you're holding inside the crook of your elbow.

Speaker 1:48:27 Couldn't you use a sandbag?

Joe Rogan 1:48:28 You could, yeah. You definitely could, yeah. There's li- I, I love, um, uh, goblet squats.

Speaker 1:48:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:34 Goblet squats are phenomenal for that.

Speaker 1:48:36 Yeah, that'll tear you up for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:48:37 Especially on a slant board. You know, when you're holding, like, a 90-pound kettlebell, and you're doing those deep squats where it's knees over toes on a slant board, and your, your whole core is just so activated when you're...

Speaker 1:48:50 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:48:50 I think that's phenomenal for, for-

Speaker 1:48:51 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:48:51 ... just s- strength and stability. But I, I agree. I think kettlebells are the best. I think it's the best also because you're, there's so many different things you can do with them in terms of... There's rotational exercises I do where I, like, pick it down on this side, and I swing and clean it, and I press it-

Speaker 1:49:09 Yep

Joe Rogan 1:49:09 ... on that side and let it swing down. And, and I do, like, those things where you lie on your back with your, you know, on your, with your butt with your legs up in the air, and you do those twists where you take the kettlebell-

Speaker 1:49:20 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:49:20 ... and bring it each side.

Speaker 1:49:22 You can absolutely demolish yourself with a single kettlebell.

Joe Rogan 1:49:25 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1:49:26 Which is kinda awesome, especially, like, where I live too, traveling with the truck. Like, okay.

Joe Rogan 1:49:29 Yep.

Speaker 1:49:30 Put one of these bad boys in there, you-

Joe Rogan 1:49:31 100%

Speaker 1:49:31 ... all the excuses are gone.

Joe Rogan 1:49:33 I had a bowling bag that I would carry a 50-pound kettlebell with me on the road. I'd just put it in a bowling bag 'cause it fits in a bowling ball bag.

Speaker 1:49:40 All right. People are gonna look at you a little awkwardly, but I'm here for it.

Joe Rogan 1:49:43 But if you have a 50-pound weight limit, if you check in luggage... [laughs] Like, there you go. [laughs]

Speaker 1:49:51 Whatever works for you.

Joe Rogan 1:49:52 Yeah.

Speaker 1:49:53 I appreciate the enthusiasm for working out on the road.

Joe Rogan 1:49:56 Well, back then, the thing was you'd never find them in a gym.

Speaker 1:50:00 That is true.

Joe Rogan 1:50:00 And now they're in most gyms.

Speaker 1:50:01 It's tough not to find them now in a gym, yeah. Hotel gyms is like, why do you have a 1.5 kilo kettlebell? Like is this, this is for children? Like what the fuck? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:50:10 Uh-

Speaker 1:50:10 The little micro ones, like... Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:50:12 Some people like to pretend they're working out.

Speaker 1:50:14 Sometimes that's me. Just go through the motions.

Joe Rogan 1:50:17 Yeah.

Speaker 1:50:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:50:18 They're good for wrists, too. Wrist curls. You know, you take a kettlebell and you, uh, like reverse it, or you have it this way, and you do these. Like, put your forearms on a bench-

Speaker 1:50:28 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:50:29 ... and you hold the handle in your hands, and you just let... Your wrist curls, like 'cause it puts you in this like weird angle. It really strengthens your forearms and your wrists. There's so many things you could do with those things. That, uh, things that aren't sexy, like Turkish get ups, phenomenal for you. So good for stability and core-

Speaker 1:50:46 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:50:47 ... just overall body control.

Speaker 1:50:49 Yeah. I need it now. Crouching towards 50, still enjoying jujitsu.

Joe Rogan 1:50:54 Yeah.

Speaker 1:50:55 Yeah. You need a little bit.

Joe Rogan 1:50:56 You definitely need something. You need some... Are you taking any peptides or any of that stuff?

Speaker 1:51:01 I played around with peptides. Finally, two years ago, I got my endocrine system checked, my hormones checked. Ooh, man. [sighs] Uh, [sighs] the- this is a nice little... It was like a, a little gauge that had red zone, yellow, green. Upon first looking at this chart, I assumed that my life was gonna end-

Joe Rogan 1:51:19 [laughs]

Speaker 1:51:19 ... in about 36 hours.

Joe Rogan 1:51:21 What was your number?

Speaker 1:51:22 Oh, fuck. It... Sh- two something.

Joe Rogan 1:51:25 Oh, Jesus.

Speaker 1:51:26 I had never had it checked.

Joe Rogan 1:51:27 That's crazy.

Speaker 1:51:28 Um, I didn't feel awesome, and it... But I also... Yeah, there are people who played around with an immense amount of, uh, performance-enhancing materials in my previous job.

Joe Rogan 1:51:38 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:51:38 Which, live your life however you want to, just understand maybe the long-term tail and the consequences of the choice you wanna make.

Joe Rogan 1:51:43 Right.

Speaker 1:51:43 Um, I had wanted to avoid that for as long as possible, because as you know, once you kinda go on that train, it's a lifelong journey.

Joe Rogan 1:51:49 Yeah.

Speaker 1:51:49 But once I finally saw that, that piece of paper, I'm like, "Oh, boy." I'd say-

Joe Rogan 1:51:54 Well, I bet you could attribute that to the volume of your training. That's al- also part of the problem, is if you're training 10 times a week, you're probably in a constant state of overtraining.

Speaker 1:52:06 Oh, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:52:07 Yeah.

Speaker 1:52:07 Yeah. That, probably for the vast majority of my life, that's been the state that I operated in.

Joe Rogan 1:52:11 [laughs]

Speaker 1:52:11 If I'm being honest, I mean, the answer was always just more. Like, if you wanna get better, do more.

Joe Rogan 1:52:15 Right.

Speaker 1:52:16 You wanna be stronger, go harder. Go harder and do more. I'm like, "Okay." It took me about... So I'd been... I started taking, uh, TRT about two years ago. I am just now finally slowly dialing it in to where I feel a difference, recovery is better, but also, I, I mean, I try to set realistic expectations for who I am and what I'm trying to do. Like, I'm just... I wanna have the healthiest lifespan that I can.

Joe Rogan 1:52:37 Yes.

Speaker 1:52:37 I'd rather live to 80 and be doing awesome stuff to 80 than live to 90 and spend the last 10 years eating Jell-O in a nursing home.

Joe Rogan 1:52:44 Right. Right.

Speaker 1:52:44 So that's what I'm going for.

Joe Rogan 1:52:46 You could do, as long as you're smart with your training, and you don't get, like, catastrophic injuries, you could be very physically fit deep, deep into your 60s and 70s.

Speaker 1:52:57 That's the goal.

Joe Rogan 1:52:57 Which is nuts.

Speaker 1:52:58 And I just-

Joe Rogan 1:52:58 It's nuts

Speaker 1:52:59 ... and that's, I mean, I don't know. Nobody knows how much time we have, you know, and how much, how long your lap is gonna be. My goal is just to fill it up with awesome experiences between here and whenever that is.

Joe Rogan 1:53:09 Here, here. Just stay out of that fucking s- flying squirrel suit, will you? )

Speaker 1:53:13 You know, Cam just said the same thing to me.

Joe Rogan 1:53:14 [laughs]

Speaker 1:53:14 And if enough people keep saying that-

Joe Rogan 1:53:16 You're gonna do it

Speaker 1:53:16 ... I'll put that fucking thing back on just to piss you guys off. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:53:19 [laughs] Well, it's kind of amazing that you're still here.

Speaker 1:53:22 That's... Here's the thing.

Joe Rogan 1:53:23 That you've, you've done that so many times. I mean, you broke the world record at one point in time.

Speaker 1:53:26 I did, yes. My egg... God, that was-

Joe Rogan 1:53:29 How many miles was that that you flew?

Speaker 1:53:30 It's like 18.2, something like that.

Joe Rogan 1:53:32 With a flying squirrel suit.

Speaker 1:53:35 To me, it was very reasonable. You know, the things that I do that I think are reasonable, oftentimes in my life, people will pull me aside and be like, "Hey, man, what the fuck?"

Joe Rogan 1:53:42 Yeah.

Speaker 1:53:42 And-

Joe Rogan 1:53:42 That doesn't seem at all reasonable.

Speaker 1:53:45 Well, you're only seeing that one video. I had been skydiving-

Joe Rogan 1:53:47 [laughs]

Speaker 1:53:47 ... for, like, 16 years at that point, you know? And, you know, something like when I would go over to [laughs] ... I remember I'd go over to Switzerland, and I would do a, a flight in the wingsuit, and get... You know, you're like, you're playing tag with your shadow on a steep cliff, and I would send it to you. And one day, you were like, "I just had to throw my phone across the room watching this because it was giving you anxiety."

Joe Rogan 1:54:08 [laughs]

Speaker 1:54:08 So then I'm like, "Clearly I'm sending you more of these videos for sure," right? 'Cause now I got the hooky... [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:54:13 I threw my phone into a couch. I was like, "Fuck this. What are you doing, Andy?"

Speaker 1:54:17 But that was, like, one of many jumps, and this, like, the months of training leading up to that, I'm not gonna sit here and say it's safe. I do think you can do it as safely as possible, and I don't have a higher risk threshold than other people do. I, I spend an immense amount of time at everything that I do looking at the risk and trying to manage it, analyze it, mitigate it as much as possible, and then you look at what's left. To me, that activity provided me enough enrichment in my life that it was worth it. I haven't put the suit on in five or six years, but I swear to God, if I get one more person telling me not to do it, I'm gonna go back and just start sending you videos again. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:54:54 All right. Well, I promise I won't be that guy that tells you that. I promise.

Speaker 1:55:00 No, but honestly, at this point, again, talking about risk, it's not worth it.

Joe Rogan 1:55:03 Yeah.

Speaker 1:55:03 I don't live in a place where I can stay... 'Cause your currency in that suit comes from the skydiving world, where you can jump it multiple times a day.

Joe Rogan 1:55:08 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:55:09 In the BASE jumping world, there's no altimeter. You're just camera one, camera two.

Joe Rogan 1:55:13 Oh.

Speaker 1:55:13 At about a buck 20. Face first.

Joe Rogan 1:55:16 [whooshes]

Speaker 1:55:17 So yeah, if you misjudge a tree or a cliff-

Joe Rogan 1:55:20 It's probably fun as fuck, though, while it's happening. Woo.

Speaker 1:55:23 I don't know how to describe what it feels like doing 120 miles an hour face first a few feet off the ground.

Joe Rogan 1:55:31 Jeez.

Speaker 1:55:31 Probably like the s- what is it in the Olympics? The s-

Joe Rogan 1:55:34 How close-

Speaker 1:55:34 ... the skeleton?

Joe Rogan 1:55:35 How close do you get off the ground? What's the closest?

Speaker 1:55:37 Uh, probably not intentionally, the closest was probably somewhere right around the three-foot range.

Joe Rogan 1:55:43 120 miles an hour?

Speaker 1:55:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:55:45 So three foot is like one, two, like that.

Speaker 1:55:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:49 Jesus, dude.

Speaker 1:55:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:50 That's insane.

Speaker 1:55:51 You don't do that for very long. And, and then there are... And if you do, like some of those jumps in Switzerland, like you would hike for hours, uh,And there's this, there's this one jump, it's actually one of the ones I sent you from. You just... It's insane. You're just looking out into, like, this picture storybook of, like, where the Kabul Giant or whatever he was would live, right? Like, you just-

Joe Rogan 1:56:12 Kandahar

Speaker 1:56:13 ... Kandahar Giant, whichever one.

Joe Rogan 1:56:14 I think it's real.

Speaker 1:56:15 I hope it is real.

Joe Rogan 1:56:17 [laughs]

Speaker 1:56:18 I deeply... And such a deep part of me hopes that it's real. But you're looking out at that as you're zipping up your ridiculous nylon suit and checking to make sure everything is there, and then you just rock forward. And at some point, you rock to a place where you can't go back the other direction. And you send it, and the first few seconds, because you have no air speed, the suit doesn't fly, so you're just falling, and then it takes off. And it's just these right-hand turns and right-hand turns. And there, and there are small sections where the angle is correct, and you can kinda connect with the terrain and then get away from it, and connect. The people who are able to survive it are not the ones that are flying three feet off the ground all the time. It's very, very short periods of time on jumps that they have practiced many, many times, and they slowly, incrementally work their way down there.

Joe Rogan 1:56:59 Mm.

Speaker 1:57:00 Because, again, a mistake in that environment is you're gonna impact an object headfirst at 120.

Joe Rogan 1:57:05 I remember the video that scared me the most was a, a bridge where the guy was trying to fly through... You know the video.

Speaker 1:57:12 Yeah, I do.

Joe Rogan 1:57:13 Yeah.

Speaker 1:57:13 Uh, oh, yeah. There you go.

Joe Rogan 1:57:14 Is this Andy?

Speaker 1:57:14 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57:15 Look at this.

Speaker 1:57:15 Oh, I love this little grass field over here.

Joe Rogan 1:57:17 God.

Speaker 1:57:17 I think my head turns to the right 'cause there was two dudes up here. I was looking at them.

Joe Rogan 1:57:20 God, that is beautiful.

Speaker 1:57:22 Oh, I'm telling you, it's insane. This is the field of joy.

Joe Rogan 1:57:25 Wow.

Speaker 1:57:26 That's the shadow in the lower right, but that's probably... I don't know, that's probably 10 feet off.

Joe Rogan 1:57:30 God, that is fucking pretty.

Speaker 1:57:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57:34 That has gotta be nuts. I mean, there's not a ride at Disneyland that can fuck with this.

Speaker 1:57:40 Oh, [laughs] absolutely not.

Joe Rogan 1:57:42 Wow. Have you ever done one of those ones where you strap a jetpack?

Speaker 1:57:48 No, but I like where your head's at.

Joe Rogan 1:57:50 Yeah.

Speaker 1:57:51 I know exactly what you're talking about. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:57:53 You remember there was a guy that was, like, getting in trouble because they kept finding this guy flying a, a, a wingsuit. He was flying a jetpack wingsuit, and they were trying to, like, locate the guy. He was doing it through-

Speaker 1:58:05 What? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:58:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was getting... Like, they were looking for him because he was... They, they kept spotting him. W- where was that, Jamie? Do you remember?

Speaker 1:58:12 I-

Joe Rogan 1:58:12 We talked about it on the show once.

Speaker 1:58:14 I feel like this is, like, a combination of stories.

Joe Rogan 1:58:16 No, no, no. Some-

Speaker 1:58:17 Secret jetpack man?

Joe Rogan 1:58:18 Yeah, some guy had a jetpack, and he was flying around where he wouldn't, wasn't supposed to be.

Speaker 1:58:22 Yeah, so these guys are in Dubai. Unfortunately, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:58:25 Wow, that's nuts.

Speaker 1:58:27 I found the guy. This was just the video. I thought might've been him, but-

Joe Rogan 1:58:29 Yeah. But that one's nuts. That's a actual wingsuit, like a plane wing.

Speaker 1:58:32 That's an actual wing, and they got to the place where they could take this off from standing on the ground, Joe.

Joe Rogan 1:58:37 Oh.

Speaker 1:58:38 Un- unfortunately, one of the innovators in that ended up dying. There's a, there's an altitude and air speed where if you have an issue, you're not gonna be able to deploy your parachute to save you, and he had an issue at that altitude.

Joe Rogan 1:58:48 [sighs] Geez.

Speaker 1:58:50 But yeah, who would've ever-

Joe Rogan 1:58:50 That guy's up there with a plane. Could, show me that again, please?

Speaker 1:58:53 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:58:55 Yeah. That is insane.

Speaker 1:58:57 Would you ever do that?

Joe Rogan 1:58:59 I don't wanna say would I. I mean, there's a time and a place-

Speaker 1:59:04 Let me get something else

Joe Rogan 1:59:05 ... where I would do a lot of things.

Speaker 1:59:07 'Cause I would 100%-

Joe Rogan 1:59:08 Depending

Speaker 1:59:08 ... would do that. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:59:09 I bet you would. Now, does that have, does that guy have a engine on that thing?

Speaker 1:59:13 Yeah, there's little micro jet engines. You can see them.

Joe Rogan 1:59:15 True.

Speaker 1:59:16 I was gonna say-

Joe Rogan 1:59:16 How much fuel?

Speaker 1:59:17 That's a good question. Like I said, they had gotten to a place where they could stand. So that wing is, is, it kinda conforms around their skydiving parachute. With... I think there's four little jet engines. They got to a place where they were standing, cracking those things off, and going vertical, and then transitioning into flight. Yes, and then I think landing them, too.

Joe Rogan 1:59:37 [laughs]

Speaker 1:59:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:59:38 Landing them with the engine somehow?

Speaker 1:59:40 I, yeah, I mean, I-

Joe Rogan 1:59:40 But do they rotate?

Speaker 1:59:42 Well, I mean, they are wearing a parachute. You know what? Maybe, I might be misspeaking on that, but I know that they were taking off from a no air speed, standing there, and just...

Joe Rogan 1:59:51 That's nuts.

Speaker 1:59:52 Well, that's also, like I said, how one of the innovators died. It was in that phase, like, a low altitude, low air speed phase where nothing's really gonna-

Joe Rogan 2:00:00 I remember I did morning with-

Speaker 2:00:02 Look at this.

Joe Rogan 2:00:02 What is it? Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:00:02 Oh, yeah. These are the jetpack racers.

Joe Rogan 2:00:05 Oh, yeah. That's crazy. I've seen that, too.

Speaker 2:00:07 This is real, by the way, right?

Speaker 2:00:09 Yeah.

Speaker 2:00:09 Is it? 'Cause it kinda looks fake, but-

Speaker 2:00:10 No, those are real, for sure.

Speaker 2:00:11 Okay.

Speaker 2:00:11 They actually have... There's a league, Jamie, of guys who race these things. [laughs]

Speaker 2:00:15 How do we get them? [laughs]

Speaker 2:00:16 That's a good question. Yeah, add to cart on Amazon for sure.

Joe Rogan 2:00:20 Whoa.

Speaker 2:00:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:00:20 How fast do you think these guys are going with these things?

Speaker 2:00:22 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 2:00:22 Whoa, and they can just land?

Speaker 2:00:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:00:24 Oh, that's wild.

Speaker 2:00:25 You could just fly to work.

Joe Rogan 2:00:26 Bro, you have to have some fucking shoulder strength to do that.

Speaker 2:00:30 I mean, I love how they're trying to show, like, this has all the incredible military application.

Joe Rogan 2:00:35 Mm.

Speaker 2:00:35 Like, let's take it easy, okay?

Speaker 2:00:36 It's gotta be quiet, right?

Speaker 2:00:37 Just... Oh. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:00:40 Super quiet.

Speaker 2:00:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:00:41 Is there some support for your shoulders in there? It's not like you're doing a constant dip.

Speaker 2:00:46 I don't... Well, I think that the jetpack, the... So the, on his backpack, I believe that's putting some thrust out, too. The hands are as well, so it's the combination of the three.

Joe Rogan 2:00:55 Because, like, how long can you hold a dip position?

Speaker 2:00:58 I don't know. Yeah, so here's the league. Look at these cra- yeah, the backpack itself... Oh, getting fancy.

Joe Rogan 2:01:05 Oh, that's crazy.

Speaker 2:01:05 Well, but so the, but the ground's pushing back up on you on that-

Joe Rogan 2:01:08 Oh

Speaker 2:01:08 ... on that situation, you know?

Speaker 2:01:09 Bummer.

Speaker 2:01:10 If you're doing a dip, creating fighting gravity.

Joe Rogan 2:01:11 Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2:01:14 It still wouldn't be that easy. You still have to...

Speaker 2:01:15 It still, it's the shoulders. I feel like the backpack is doing the majority of it.

Speaker 2:01:18 Yeah.

Speaker 2:01:18 Like, the Iron Man little hand things, I feel like that's just the stabilization.

Speaker 2:01:21 It doesn't seem that heavy.

Joe Rogan 2:01:22 Oh, so the backpack is doing the most of it, and the other things-

Speaker 2:01:25 I think so

Joe Rogan 2:01:25 ... are just steering your little-

Speaker 2:01:26 Yeah, you gotta smooth his arm around pretty easily.

Joe Rogan 2:01:28 Right.

Speaker 2:01:28 I think so. I have exactly zero seconds in one of these things, so this is me talking out of my ass.

Joe Rogan 2:01:33 If there was enough lives, if you had multiple lives, I would do a lot of different things.

Speaker 2:01:39 Wow. That looks so fun.

Speaker 2:01:40 It does. Jamie, where could you-

Speaker 2:01:42 You can't have a... I'm, I'm, like-

Speaker 2:01:43 Look at this guy's going up the mountain

Speaker 2:01:44 ... no parachute, right? Where's the parachute? You can't, or is that stuck in-

Speaker 2:01:45 Oh, no, there is no parachute

Speaker 2:01:47 ... stuck in the box there?

Joe Rogan 2:01:48 Oh, so there's-

Speaker 2:01:48 No, there's no parachute. That's-

Speaker 2:01:49 That's why you wanna stay five feet off the ground with these things.

Speaker 2:01:51 Look at this.

Joe Rogan 2:01:52 Yeah.

Speaker 2:01:52 It's so long.

Speaker 2:01:52 This dude just flying to the top of this fucking cliff with that thing.

Speaker 2:01:55 Ah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:55 Oh, that's bonkers.

Speaker 2:01:57 For sure this is, like, to save people or something.

Joe Rogan 2:01:59 No, it's for fun.

Speaker 2:02:01 I agree with Joe more on that one

Joe Rogan 2:02:02 So what, what do you think, like the... How much time do you get in one of those two? You run out of fuel.

Speaker 2:02:07 I don't know.

Speaker 2:02:07 Let's-

Speaker 2:02:08 Time enough to fill a motivational video like this.

Joe Rogan 2:02:10 [laughs]

Speaker 2:02:13 To me, I'd be like-

Joe Rogan 2:02:13 Gravity Industries.

Speaker 2:02:15 This is the company

Speaker 2:02:15 ... I would be reverse engineering, like, "Where is this in my Amazon cart?"

Joe Rogan 2:02:18 Right.

Speaker 2:02:18 "How do I possibly make enough money to have these sent to my house immediately?"

Joe Rogan 2:02:22 What do you think one of those costs?

Speaker 2:02:24 My guess would be six figures.

Joe Rogan 2:02:26 So professional-

Speaker 2:02:28 Shop

Joe Rogan 2:02:29 ... entertainment.

Speaker 2:02:30 Shop, Jamie. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:02:30 Oh, click on that bitch. Let's go.

Speaker 2:02:33 Suit up.

Joe Rogan 2:02:33 Suit up.

Speaker 2:02:34 Yes.

Joe Rogan 2:02:34 Suit me up, motherfucker.

Speaker 2:02:35 Hold on.

Joe Rogan 2:02:36 Let's go.

Speaker 2:02:36 Wake me with my credit card.

Joe Rogan 2:02:37 Let's, let's guess. Let's guess.

Speaker 2:02:39 Ah, God.

Joe Rogan 2:02:40 50 grand?

Speaker 2:02:41 Hmm.

Speaker 2:02:42 When you bet.

Joe Rogan 2:02:43 100 grand?

Speaker 2:02:44 I'm gonna say six figures.

Speaker 2:02:45 Oh, it's close so far.

Speaker 2:02:46 They fooled us. You sons of bitches.

Joe Rogan 2:02:48 Oh, clothes. You can only buy clothes.

Speaker 2:02:50 Well, you can't buy the thing on the website.

Joe Rogan 2:02:52 Why can't you buy the fucking thing?

Speaker 2:02:54 Let's see.

Joe Rogan 2:02:55 Well, how much does the thing cost? Somebody must be able to buy it.

Speaker 2:02:58 2,400 pounds for an experience.

Speaker 2:03:00 For half a day.

Joe Rogan 2:03:00 So that's just to fly it.

Speaker 2:03:02 1,000 horsepi- uh, 1,050 horsepower gravity jet suit.

Joe Rogan 2:03:06 Whoa. So it's the same horsepower as a ZR1 Corvette. [laughs] And it's on your back.

Speaker 2:03:13 Man, wow.

Speaker 2:03:13 Look at this. Yeah. First off, take that safety line off.

Joe Rogan 2:03:16 Yeah.

Speaker 2:03:16 Let's let people live in the real world.

Joe Rogan 2:03:17 That guy needs a safety line. Look at his neck.

Speaker 2:03:19 [sighs]

Speaker 2:03:19 Um, let me-

Joe Rogan 2:03:20 Like, yeah, let's just-

Speaker 2:03:21 ... search some more

Joe Rogan 2:03:21 ... let's search the price. So you think six figures. I would probably say that's probably accurate, especially when I saw it as 1,000 horsepower.

Speaker 2:03:29 Here's a better question. Are you willing to spend six figures to acquire one of those? I'm gonna go in the hard yes category for myself.

Joe Rogan 2:03:36 [sighs]

Speaker 2:03:38 I'm not saying I got six figures laying around. I'm saying I will start a new career in the at- Oh, no, that's not a good face, Jamie. [laughs]

Speaker 2:03:45 Well, it's not, uh... It's, it is in the six figures.

Joe Rogan 2:03:47 [laughs] Six?

Speaker 2:03:49 But it's not the low.

Joe Rogan 2:03:50 Uh.

Speaker 2:03:50 Like, it's not, it's not the edge of six figures.

Joe Rogan 2:03:51 600?

Speaker 2:03:52 Yeah, roughly. That'd get one.

Speaker 2:03:54 $600,000?

Speaker 2:03:55 It says 440.

Joe Rogan 2:03:56 Whoa.

Speaker 2:03:57 Is that in US dollars?

Speaker 2:03:58 It's like, uh... Yeah, yes.

Speaker 2:04:00 [sighs] Wow.

Speaker 2:04:00 Depending on configuration and stuff too.

Joe Rogan 2:04:02 Okay. What if you get it, like, maxed?

Speaker 2:04:05 Well, it does... It's not giving me options. I just kind of searched around.

Speaker 2:04:07 I think we're just gonna get closer to the seven-figure number if we do that.

Speaker 2:04:10 Yeah. They probably don't even advertise how much it costs.

Joe Rogan 2:04:13 Does it say how long you can stay in the air in that thing?

Speaker 2:04:16 How long does it-

Joe Rogan 2:04:18 Hmm. Let's guess. I wanna say 30 minutes.

Speaker 2:04:21 I was gonna guess under 10.

Joe Rogan 2:04:23 Whoa. Well, I remember, um, when I saw one on a radio station once, and they had a guy who-

Speaker 2:04:29 One to four.

Joe Rogan 2:04:29 What is it?

Speaker 2:04:29 One minute.

Joe Rogan 2:04:30 One?

Speaker 2:04:31 One to four minutes. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:04:32 One to four, that's it? So what do they do when they're flying up to that mountain?

Speaker 2:04:35 Five to 10 if you are doing it carefully.

Joe Rogan 2:04:39 Well, how the fuck do they get all the way to the mountain? How do they get down?

Speaker 2:04:42 We only saw a five-second clip.

Speaker 2:04:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:43 Is there a, a gallon of gas up there at the top of that fucking mountain?

Speaker 2:04:46 I'm way less enthusiastic about this purchase now.

Joe Rogan 2:04:49 Yeah, that sucks.

Speaker 2:04:50 Well-

Joe Rogan 2:04:50 450 grand for a minute.

Speaker 2:04:53 But what makes me enthusiastic is that they're gonna innovate and evolve this.

Joe Rogan 2:04:56 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:04:56 And then one day...

Joe Rogan 2:04:57 It'll be nuclear powered.

Speaker 2:04:58 Let's not get crazy. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:04:59 It'll be... Yeah. It'll be cold fusion. It'll be an Iron Man machine.

Speaker 2:05:03 I mean, I feel like we could do better things with that technology before the jet suit, but I'm totally in on the jet suit. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:05:10 Get an Iron Man suit. Like, that's Iron Man, right? The hands. That's how he would fly.

Speaker 2:05:15 I mean, that's kind of what they look like.

Joe Rogan 2:05:17 The hands and the feet. Yeah.

Speaker 2:05:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:05:18 Like, it would come out of his feet, and it would come out of his hands. Um, I did a radio station once in Denver, and they had a guy who did a, a jet pack thing in a parking lot. It was, like, a m- morning radio back in the day. And, uh, this guy, I think it could only last for 30 seconds, and this guy, he had two knee braces on because he had blown out both of his ACLs just landing-

Speaker 2:05:39 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:05:39 ... and destroying his knees. But it was crazy to watch. It was crazy to watch. This guy took off, and he flew around. But it was only for a few seconds. I think, like, it's, like, a 30-second deal. After 30 seconds, it runs out of juice.

Speaker 2:05:51 I'm glad there are people like that out there. I appreciate their enthusiasm.

Joe Rogan 2:05:54 There's always going to be, right?

Speaker 2:05:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:05:56 There's always gonna be someone-

Speaker 2:05:57 Very brief description of what it has in there.

Joe Rogan 2:05:59 Hmm. A lot of jazz.

Speaker 2:06:02 It honestly, it, it is like what you were talking about, so the hands like the Iron Man position.

Joe Rogan 2:06:05 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:06:05 So the back has a majority of the thrust.

Joe Rogan 2:06:08 Right.

Speaker 2:06:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:06:09 I bet it heats your ass up something fierce.

Speaker 2:06:11 Yeah, up to 56 miles per hour. Interesting. 95 kilos.

Speaker 2:06:15 But you can use jet fuel though. I wonder how much faster you go with jet fuel.

Joe Rogan 2:06:17 Well, what does it normally use?

Speaker 2:06:19 It says diesel-

Speaker 2:06:19 Diesel or jet fuel

Speaker 2:06:20 ... or jet fuel.

Joe Rogan 2:06:21 Diesel or jet fuel. That's weird.

Speaker 2:06:23 They're not that far off.

Speaker 2:06:24 Or kerosene.

Joe Rogan 2:06:25 But isn't that weird that one engine can burn those different types of fuel? That seems unusual.

Speaker 2:06:29 Yeah, that's probably the configuration part where-

Joe Rogan 2:06:30 Oh, I see

Speaker 2:06:31 ... you probably get-

Joe Rogan 2:06:31 Right, right, right

Speaker 2:06:32 ... jet fuel.

Joe Rogan 2:06:32 Like, if you want a top-of-the-line one, you get jet fuel.

Speaker 2:06:34 The plaid version.

Joe Rogan 2:06:36 Yeah. All right.

Speaker 2:06:38 Go get one.

Joe Rogan 2:06:39 God, I want one of those so bad.

Speaker 2:06:39 I'll take one. Let's try it.

Joe Rogan 2:06:41 Yeah. Uh, but is there legitimate military applications for something like that?

Speaker 2:06:45 I can't really think of one.

Joe Rogan 2:06:46 Just 'cause it showed guys in fatigues that are landing on an aircraft carrier.

Speaker 2:06:51 I could show you videos of guys in fatigues that end up banging each other.

Joe Rogan 2:06:55 [laughs]

Speaker 2:06:55 So it doesn't necessarily mean that... [laughs] Right? So let's just-

Joe Rogan 2:07:01 Is there a military application for that?

Speaker 2:07:03 Let's just say, uh, phew, that would be far fringe. I'm just saying the fatigues isn't necessarily the qualifier of it being, you know-

Joe Rogan 2:07:10 Right

Speaker 2:07:10 ... good utilization for the military.

Joe Rogan 2:07:12 So we only r- briefly touched on this Kandahar Giant story, but it... Were you ever in Kandahar?

Speaker 2:07:18 Yeah, I stayed on the south of Afghanistan.

Joe Rogan 2:07:19 How remote is it?

Speaker 2:07:23 Um, I mean, there's a large city there. To- town, city, I don't know the difference between the two. It's relatively built up. As far as southern Afghanistan, it's gonna be, you know, you have Kabul up north, Kandahar is a little bit s- down south. Kabul in the north, you're gonna start looking at the, the exterior range of the Hindu Kush. Kandahar still has some topography, but you're looking at more of, like, a high desert terrain.

Joe Rogan 2:07:44 And so there's caves and things along those lines?

Speaker 2:07:47 Probably.

Joe Rogan 2:07:47 This is the idea that this thing lived in a cave.

Speaker 2:07:50 Yeah. I mean, so yeah, it's, it's... There is topography that is there, for sure. It, uh-Possible? I don't know.

Joe Rogan 2:07:58 Well, the reason why, uh, people entertain this idea of giants at all is all-- a lot of it's biblical. It's like stories from the Bible, and then also stories from ancient civilizations that talked about red-haired giants, which is the weird thing about this thing, had red hair. Like the Native Americans had tales of red-haired giants that they fought off. Like, there's a lot of people that believe that all these stories from antiquity about giants are all referring to an actual different race of humans. You know, like we are one race of humans, that's the Homo sapiens that survived.

Speaker 2:08:36 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:08:36 But then there's also races of humans that didn't survive, like, um, the hobbit people from the island of Flores, that they found out that was a branch of the human species that was like three feet tall, covered in hair, real tiny heads. Weird, but had tools and had weapons and-

Speaker 2:08:52 I think some of that stuff's real. I think sometimes though, the stories, they, they're hi- they're intentionally nesting a greater message through the vehicle of that s- story. Um, so whether it's like accurate or not, it's more about the story that they are telling. And I'm not saying like the Kandahar giant has some story associated with it, but some of the, the older, like the civilizations and the stories that they tell, I think it's just an, a, a vehicle that they can nest something in there to create deeper thought, if that makes sense. It's what I see you guys doing as comedians. Um, I've talked about this recently. Um, it is interesting to me, and I never paid attention to it, but I know he, he's a good friend of yours, Dave Chappelle. I watched his last special. The ability for comedians to nest inside of your set pretty impactful and powerful, like societal conversations and ideas-

Joe Rogan 2:09:46 Mm-hmm

Speaker 2:09:46 ...and get people to laugh about it. But even when they're done laughing about it, they're gonna be thinking about it when they're driving home. It's just the vehicle to get people thinking about stuff.

Joe Rogan 2:09:55 Well, in terms of comedy, I agree, and Dave is one of the best of all time, if not the best at doing that. But what kind of a nesting would you-- W- well, you're talking about giants.

Speaker 2:10:06 It depends on the morals and ethos of that society.

Joe Rogan 2:10:09 Hmm.

Speaker 2:10:09 If they wanna be a warrior society, you have to have something that you're constantly s- fighting or protecting yourself against.

Joe Rogan 2:10:14 Hmm.

Speaker 2:10:15 Whether that's real or you are nesting the morality of your society in that story, both could achieve the same end state.

Joe Rogan 2:10:22 If there really was a giant, and they really did kill this thing and then brought it back secretly, like what would be the purpose of that? Why wouldn't they... That, that's where I go, like what would be the purpose of hiding the fact that this thing existed? I don't see why the government would hide the discovery of a giant. Like what-

Speaker 2:10:40 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:10:41 ...what military reason, what national security reason would you have for hiding the, this, the thing, that, that this thing existed?

Speaker 2:10:51 At some level of objective skepticism and criticism or looking into these stories, you get to that point of like, who's benefiting from this and why?

Joe Rogan 2:10:59 Yeah.

Speaker 2:10:59 Why would anybody actually go out of their way to put this much effort in to obscure something like that?

Joe Rogan 2:11:04 Yeah. That's how I feel about giants. But when it comes to UFOs, it makes more sense to me. Because then you have something that's insanely advanced.

Speaker 2:11:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:15 Much more advanced than us. And so I had this guy Hal Puthoff on my show.

Speaker 2:11:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:11:20 He's a physicist, very brilliant guy, and he's been around forever. And during, um, was George W. or Herbert Walker?

Speaker 2:11:30 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:32 One of the Bushes. Um, they brought him and, uh, a team of specialists in, and they said, "We're contemplating disclosure."

Speaker 2:11:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:11:41 "And that we have not just requi- not just acquired, um, crashed vehicles that are of non-human origin, but also we have biological remains of these creatures. We want you to write down pros and cons of the impact of these things and put a numerical value. Put a numerical value in terms of impact on government, impact on religion, impact on-"

Speaker 2:12:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:12:08 "...all these different things." And um, universally, all of them came out with more cons than pros. The numbers didn't line up, and they made a decision to not disclose. This is according to this Hal Puthoff guy.

Speaker 2:12:22 I could see that being the case.

Joe Rogan 2:12:23 I could see that being the case too, if it was true. The UFO thing, there's just too many stories for me to openly dismiss all of them, even though I have had no experiences. It's, there's too many stories. There's too many, there's too much weirdness to it.

Speaker 2:12:38 How about just given the size of the known universe and the fact it keeps expanding, what is the mathematical odds that we are completely the only thing out there?

Joe Rogan 2:12:45 Exactly. So this is like sort of the same argument that people used to use for Bigfoot. Like the wilderness is so vast. The Pacific Northwest is so dense. There could be something out there that we haven't documented. Well, the problem is now we kinda have, and now we kinda know that with all these camera traps and all these different things, it's m- very, very, very, very unlikely that any of these stories are true. But when you get to the universe, it's like, come on. It's way more likely that we're not alone than we are alone. If we are alone, that's kind of insane. I mean, it ki- it's kind of incredible. If this is the only place where intelligent life has formed, I think if that's the case, we're missing something. We're missing something about the nature of consciousness. We're ne- we're missing something about what consciousness actually is. Like what is our actual role in the universe? It might be more complex than do we initially believe.

Speaker 2:13:44 I think disclosure that we aren't alone would have a net benefit to society globally. We spend a lot of time pecking back and forth at each other and fighting each other.

Joe Rogan 2:13:55 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:13:56 If you got sat down and be like, "ListenUm, we have a global issue now that everybody is impacted by this. As big as... As much of the biggest swinging dick you think you are on this planet, guess what? You're nothing in comparison to this. I think it would have a net calming effect. Maybe not instantaneously, but overall, I think that that would be the net effect of it.

Joe Rogan 2:14:18 Perhaps. The, the, the real problem is, like all things, someone's gonna take advantage of it.

Speaker 2:14:23 But I think that if, if so, let's just say it is real, I think that's already happening. Like, the US, if, uh, that's real, the US is not the only country that has agreed not to disclose because it is to their benefit not to do so. Like, these things, uh, Russia has a crash program. I'm sure China does as well, too, and I'm sure that everybody, to include the US, is trying to reverse engineer these things for our benefit as fast as humanly possible.

Joe Rogan 2:14:47 Yeah.

Speaker 2:14:47 So.

Joe Rogan 2:14:48 I think if that, if it is true, that is the case, and that's the Bob Lazar story. There's a great documentary that's out now called S4-

Speaker 2:14:55 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:14:55 ... that's about Bob Lazar. I, I had him on again for the second time. Ugh, I don't wanna believe him. I wanna think he's a bullshit artist, but I believe him. There's, it, th- there's something about one guy who's a clearly brilliant guy who's been telling the same story since 1988.

Speaker 2:15:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:15:15 You know?

Speaker 2:15:15 And like you said, a volume of other stories. Some of them, I think you can completely-

Joe Rogan 2:15:19 For sure

Speaker 2:15:20 ... wr- write off. But other ones, pretty tough, from pretty credible people-

Joe Rogan 2:15:24 Mm-hmm

Speaker 2:15:24 ... who aren't making claims like, "Hey, I sat down and had a beer with this thing." But like-

Joe Rogan 2:15:28 Right

Speaker 2:15:29 ... "I was in an aircraft that has a certain performance envelope, and we understand the performance envelope of what humans are able to fly at this point, and yeah-

Joe Rogan 2:15:37 Yeah

Speaker 2:15:37 ... this thing did things that I don't understand." Sometimes the videos get... I mean, I was talking with, uh, well, you know Bill Thompson. You just had him on.

Joe Rogan 2:15:44 Sure. Love that dude.

Speaker 2:15:46 He is, like, he's one of my favorite people. You gotta be cautious how deep of a question you ask him-

Joe Rogan 2:15:53 Right

Speaker 2:15:53 ... because he has national defense level autism at times.

Joe Rogan 2:15:57 [laughs]

Speaker 2:15:58 Defcon 5. You're like, "Bill, what's your favorite color?" He's like, "Oh, what is color?" Like, "Fuck, no, that's not-

Joe Rogan 2:16:05 [laughs]

Speaker 2:16:05 ... that's not what I meant." But we were having this conversation, and his background is fascinating. And, and what's even more fascinating is what he's done with his background and what he built from, with Spartan Forge with that.

Joe Rogan 2:16:15 Yeah.

Speaker 2:16:16 Which-

Joe Rogan 2:16:16 And his ethics.

Speaker 2:16:18 Correct. But he was talking, in some of the videos, he understands technological things, and he can look at stuff, he'll be like, "That's the parallax of two moving objects and how a lens works." Not many people understand those things.

Joe Rogan 2:16:29 Right.

Speaker 2:16:29 To include myself many times when I'm talking with Mr., you know, [laughs] Mr. Bill. But I mean, he, God, he's a national treasure.

Joe Rogan 2:16:35 He really is.

Speaker 2:16:36 He is.

Joe Rogan 2:16:37 He... Th- that was one of the ones where I dipped into the comments on YouTube, 'cause I just wanted to know how people were gonna react to him.

Speaker 2:16:44 Yeah. What'd they say?

Joe Rogan 2:16:45 They loved him. Loved him. It was u- universal praise for how brilliant he is. And I, I'm like, there's only one way they're gonna respond. I'm like, if you don't like this guy-

Speaker 2:16:55 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:16:55 ... like, you're listening to the wrong show.

Speaker 2:16:57 Have you seen what he's done with the app he created, Spartan Forge?

Joe Rogan 2:17:00 It's incredible. It's an amazing app.

Speaker 2:17:01 It's 20-plus years of targeting and intelligence gathering packaged into something that's consumer-facing, that if you're into hunting, holy shit.

Joe Rogan 2:17:10 I know, and what kind of a super genius is gonna get involved in a hunting app like that?

Speaker 2:17:15 Captain America of autism. [laughs] I love you, Bill-

Joe Rogan 2:17:20 Yeah

Speaker 2:17:20 ... but let's be honest. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:17:22 He's, he, me- he's brilliant on another level. I remember-

Speaker 2:17:25 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:17:25 ... the first conversation I had with him, I was like, "Oh, okay." There's, there's people-

Speaker 2:17:29 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:17:29 ... that you talk to, like when, whenever someone says, uh, "Oh, Joe, you're so smart," I'm like, "Settle down. No, no, no. I'm smart compared to you." [laughs] I'm smart compared to some people, you know?

Speaker 2:17:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:17:41 But I know real smart people.

Speaker 2:17:44 God, yeah, there is a stark difference.

Joe Rogan 2:17:47 A giant leap, a chasm.

Speaker 2:17:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:17:50 A, a, a fucking, a, an ocean to cross before you reach, like-

Speaker 2:17:55 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:17:55 ... levels like Bill and, or Elon or the, some of these people that's just like the, the, the amount of processing power they have.

Speaker 2:18:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:18:04 You know, I have a Honda Civic brain, and these motherfuckers have a Corvette ZR1.

Speaker 2:18:09 I usually go with, "I have an IQ that you can find on a thermostat versus..." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:18:14 [laughs]

Speaker 2:18:14 I mean, I'm not saying it's, like, the winter-

Joe Rogan 2:18:15 Yeah

Speaker 2:18:15 ... but maybe it's a little bit close to a hot summer day. No, what he, what he is a... I wish I had the ability to build stuff like that. Like, I use that app to hunt, but at, most of the time I use it when I'm flying my helicopter around because it is, like, the terrain analysis, the ability to look at stuff, the lidar, the way that you can look through foliage. Again, I'm just, I'm deeply appreciative that people like that exist.

Joe Rogan 2:18:35 And, uh, again, with the ethics that he has.

Speaker 2:18:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:18:37 He will not sell your fucking email. He's been offered a lot of money to sell all the... You know, that's the thing that companies do. You sign up for something-

Speaker 2:18:45 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:18:45 ... you use your email. That, your email goes on a list. I'm sure if you've ever opened up one of your email accounts and looked the, through the filters, like, all the s- spam and promotional shit.

Speaker 2:18:54 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:18:54 It's like years and years of garbage.

Speaker 2:18:58 In addition to the email stuff, I, I know Bill has become a very good friend. He's been offered money to do a lot of things, and his morality has stayed true through-

Joe Rogan 2:19:08 Yeah

Speaker 2:19:08 ... throughout. Which, and again, like, those things are his to talk about if he ever wants to, but as somebody who knows him and appreciates that, I wish there were more people like that.

Joe Rogan 2:19:16 Yes. It's just very difficult to become a guy like that.

Speaker 2:19:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:19:19 It's, it's a, the long road to be that guy.

Speaker 2:19:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:19:23 Yeah. Um, I think because of what's going on in Iran, uh, it'd be good to talk to you about this because you're a guy who kinda understands things in terms of, like, geopolitics more than the average person.

Speaker 2:19:34 Listen, I can find Iran on a map, okay? That doesn't mean I understand [laughs] geopolitics.

Joe Rogan 2:19:38 I know. I know. You're very-

Speaker 2:19:40 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:19:40 ... you're humble. But-

Speaker 2:19:41 Well, what, the-

Joe Rogan 2:19:42 This-

Speaker 2:19:42 ... my operational experience was at a low tac- I mean, meaning on, like, there's, so there's strategic war-

Joe Rogan 2:19:46 Right

Speaker 2:19:47 ... operational war. But those are, that's air I never was in the room for. I didn't breathe that air. I'm not having... I wasn't invited, rightfully so, to planning meetings where they were talking about the defense policy of the United States-

Joe Rogan 2:19:58 Right

Speaker 2:19:58 ... or going into a country. I was down, like, "Hey, we found this dude"We know where he's at

Joe Rogan 2:20:04 Go get him

Speaker 2:20:05 We can't figure out how to go get him. Why don't you guys go give it a little look-see?" That was the level that I operated at.

Joe Rogan 2:20:10 Yeah. Well, one of the things that was discussed was sending a bunch of operators in to go retrieve depleted uranium.

Speaker 2:20:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:20:20 Do you think they tried that?

Speaker 2:20:22 Oh, as a part of the rescue?

Joe Rogan 2:20:24 Yeah. There seems to be a lot of ships, a lot of crafts.

Speaker 2:20:29 Well, it... Okay, so yes, but... Okay, so I'll, I'll, I'll... We can unpack this one a little bit. So this is back to the F-8, uh, F-15 weapons systems officer that ejected.

Joe Rogan 2:20:40 Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:20:40 That was a CSAR or Combat Search And Rescue operation where they surged forward a lot of stuff.

Joe Rogan 2:20:45 And then the operation, or the, the Ghost Murmur.

Speaker 2:20:48 Stop it right now. You stop it right now, Joe.

Joe Rogan 2:20:50 You don't know what that is?

Speaker 2:20:51 I, I know, I know-

Joe Rogan 2:20:52 Do you believe in that?

Speaker 2:20:53 Joe, I want it to be true.

Joe Rogan 2:20:55 Hmm.

Speaker 2:20:55 Right?

Joe Rogan 2:20:55 Me too.

Speaker 2:20:56 I want them to be able to identify somebody from a heartbeat.

Joe Rogan 2:21:00 From 40 miles away.

Speaker 2:21:01 From 40 miles away. If that technology existed and we're not using that on, to help our own populace find people that are lost in the woods, we're a bunch of fucking assholes.

Joe Rogan 2:21:09 Right.

Speaker 2:21:10 So, like, let's not maybe tell people what we're doing, but you could have a specialist in a search and rescue helicopter-

Joe Rogan 2:21:15 Right

Speaker 2:21:15 ... that could maybe use that and be like, "Oh, we saw them in a field," when you didn't actually see... Right?

Joe Rogan 2:21:18 Right.

Speaker 2:21:19 So because that doesn't happen, I think the... It's plausible. I don't... It's possible. I don't know if it's plausible.

Joe Rogan 2:21:25 That's how we felt.

Speaker 2:21:26 So-

Joe Rogan 2:21:26 Me and Jamie were both-

Speaker 2:21:27 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:21:28 ... going, "Uh..."

Speaker 2:21:29 So, but then you can go old school, which is sending in monkeys with machine guns, like-

Joe Rogan 2:21:34 Yeah

Speaker 2:21:34 ... what I used to do with a PJ or multiple PJs, Pararescue Jumpers, because those are the guys... This is the way I describe PJs. If you wanna put a hole in something, JSOC guys are great at it. If you wanna plug a hole, PJs are the guys that you want on top of you just stopping hydraulic fluid. They're medical, just absolute badasses. Nothing but immense respect for them. So the two cargo aircraft came in. They pulled the Little Birds out. I believe that there was four. That you could only fit probably, man, even if they were super light on fuel, probably three guys on each pod. So six guys per helicopter, 24 guys. Some of those are gonna have to be PJs. I don't know if that's enough to go into a hardened facility, in the daytime also, which is not when you would do that, for retrieving depleted uranium. Because by the way, to do that, you're gonna be in full protective equipment, very likely, which you're gonna be moving incredibly slow. I, I just... I know it was, uh, I know that geographically it was proximal to one of the locations that they thought that that was what was going on. I think more... I think it probably was a rescue of the weapons systems officer-

Joe Rogan 2:22:37 Hmm

Speaker 2:22:37 ... is my guess. Um, and then, you know, they're like, "Well, we can't get the aircraft 'cause they got stuck in the sand." I'm like, "Okay." The, the Little Birds don't have the fuel storage and ability to get across where they needed to go, so they had to bring in other aircraft, and you don't wanna leave that stuff, so.

Joe Rogan 2:22:52 Right. So you gotta detonate it.

Speaker 2:22:53 Yeah, they bip it or blow it in place.

Joe Rogan 2:22:55 How many aircrafts did they lose?

Speaker 2:22:58 So what has been, I think, disclosed was the four MH-6s, which are the Little Birds that carry the people, the two aircraft that brought those in, I, I think they were