David Cross on Joe Rogan: Why Boston Clubs Ran on Mob Money

1. 0:02 – 5:10

   Catching up after NewsRadio: hair, barbers, and the “beard statement”

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

   2. SPSpeaker0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] David.

   4. DCDavid Cross0:13

      Joseph.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Good to see you.

   6. DCDavid Cross0:15

      Good to see you.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Dude, I haven't seen you in a long fucking time. When was the last time we were actually in a room together?

   8. DCDavid Cross0:20

      I, well, I was trying to think of that. I don't know... I would imagine post Newsradio, we hung out at some point, at some show somewhere.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:30

      Somewhere.

   10. DCDavid Cross0:30

       But I don't know. But I do remember, uh, 'cause I did Newsradio a couple times, and we, we hung out, and I remember, I think we both... No, just you had more hair then. [laughs]

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       [laughs]

   12. DCDavid Cross0:44

       Uh, I was probably already at this point, um-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       I was fighting-

   14. DCDavid Cross0:48

       Yeah

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       ... to keep it. I was hanging on.

   16. DCDavid Cross0:49

       Do you, are you, do you shave or is that it? Is that bald-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:51

       Oh, it's, I mean, I'm bald.

   18. DCDavid Cross0:53

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       If I didn't shave, I'd be bald all the way up here.

   20. DCDavid Cross0:56

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       But I got a hair transplant, and it was useless.

   22. DCDavid Cross0:59

       It's, yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       I jo- I did a joke about it. I go, "Having a hair transplant is like taking people that are healthy and moving them into a neighborhood where everyone's dying."

   24. DCDavid Cross1:08

       [laughs]

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       This is just like, "Where did Bob go?" He just fucking flew off the face of the earth.

   26. DCDavid Cross1:13

       So, uh, yeah, you'd say you just, uh, accepted it-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:17

       Yes

   28. DCDavid Cross1:17

       ... and said, "Fuck it," yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       I should've done it a long time ago.

   30. DCDavid Cross1:19

       Yeah.
2. 5:10 – 9:38

   Late-night radio legends: Art Bell, time-traveler lines, and respectful weirdness

   1. DCDavid Cross5:10

      Who's that?

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:11

      Art Bell.

   3. DCDavid Cross5:12

      I was gonna guess Art Bell.

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:13

      Yeah.

   5. DCDavid Cross5:13

      I swear to God.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:14

      Yeah.

   7. DCDavid Cross5:15

      I swear to God. I don't even know if I've ever seen him.

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:18

      Yeah, that's him.

   9. DCDavid Cross5:18

      Coast to Coast.

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:19

       Yes. Yes.

   11. DCDavid Cross5:20

       Holy shit.

   12. JRJoe Rogan5:21

       From the Kingdom of Nye.

   13. DCDavid Cross5:23

       Wow.

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:24

       I fucking loved that show. That was the show that I listened to coming home from Hollywood, 'cause I lived out in the Valley, and I would drive home at night, and I'd listen to Late Night with Art Bell.

   15. DCDavid Cross5:33

       Oh.

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:33

       Oh, it was the best.

   17. DCDavid Cross5:33

       Art, Coast to Coast with Art Bell. I used to do a whole bit about, uh, the, like, um... 'Cause who's the news guy? George-

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:42

       Noory

   19. DCDavid Cross5:43

       ... Noory.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:43

       Yeah.

   21. DCDavid Cross5:43

       George Noory, right. And I'm gonna, uh, digress for one second. Did you ever p- uh, do you play video games at all?

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:50

       Yes.

   23. DCDavid Cross5:50

       Okay.

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:50

       Well, I try not to.

   25. DCDavid Cross5:52

       Um-

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:52

       But I used to play a lot of them.

   27. DCDavid Cross5:53

       Did you ever play Prey?

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:55

       No, but I know what it is.

   29. DCDavid Cross5:57

       A great underrated, underrated game, got ripped off, uh, or just people bit certain things that they, um, started. But one of the coolest thingsSo it's about like this, uh, it takes place on a, a, a reservation. Like, you know, uh, in the '90s I guess or something like that. And there's a bartender and her boyfriend and, and it takes place in this bar, and then aliens come. And b- uh, he, then this guy goes on the alien ship to, uh, go rescue her. But, um, they did this really cool thing. So first they have this, in the video game right at the bar, there's a TV and as you walk towards it, it, there, it's playing, it's like static-y until you get closer to it. And then as your character gets closer to it, it's Art Bell talking about aliens and stuff.

   30. JRJoe Rogan6:54

       Ah.
3. 9:38 – 24:54

   Phil Hendrie’s character wizardry, then the improv masters who do it live

   1. DCDavid Cross9:38

      And, and you, so did you also listen to Phil Hendrie?

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:42

      Yes.

   3. DCDavid Cross9:42

      Oh, God.

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:43

      He was the best.

   5. DCDavid Cross9:44

      Just super genius.

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:45

      The best thing about Phil Hendrie was the people that didn't understand what was going on-

   7. DCDavid Cross9:48

      Yeah

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:48

      ... they would call in and be really upset. [laughs]

   9. DCDavid Cross9:50

      Well, the first, the first two times I heard him I didn't understand what he was doing. He's, he's that good too. Uh, then I, and I would be like, "This is crazy, this guy." And then eventually you're like, oh, he's doing characters, uh-

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:05

       Yeah

   11. DCDavid Cross10:06

       ... 'cause he'd, you know, repeat characters and stuff. But I, I got the chance to watch him do a show. So he's got, he's, he's got the, he's got three mics I wanna say. Uh, they, i- like two mics like this, and then a phone mic. Uh, well, or, you know, a phone, like a ha- a, a old time, you know, cradle phone. And he was doing himself, uh, the ca- the woman who's, uh, runs the, uh, HOA or whatever that, uh, whatever her name was, that, that character, and then somebody else calling in. Like he did somebody calling on the ph-

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:46

       Yeah

   13. DCDavid Cross10:46

       ... and it was, uh, I, I mean, it was like a magic act.

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:51

       Yeah.

   15. DCDavid Cross10:51

       It was crazy to watch how... To, without missing a beat. And I could see, uh, you can see how he strategically takes breaths so that he can go from one character to another and interrupting each other.

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:07

       Yeah.

   17. DCDavid Cross11:07

       You know? It, it, it was fascinating. But he's a genius.

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:10

       It's, the only thing that ca- I, right away I was like, oh, wait a minute, there's no crosstalk. Like right... Well, the f- one of the early times I listened I was like, "I think this is the same guy."

   19. DCDavid Cross11:20

       Yeah. Well, he's, he bumps it up. Like, he's really good at-

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:24

       Yeah

   21. DCDavid Cross11:25

       ... at, uh, almo- you know, making it sound as if, like, uh, 'cause he'll interrupt himself and go, "And I... Okay, but-"

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:34

       Yeah.

   23. DCDavid Cross11:34

       You know?

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:34

       Yeah.

   25. DCDavid Cross11:34

       And stop, and then just go right into the other voice. It, it's fucking phenomenal.

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:39

       And, and, and completely original. Like I don't know of anybody else that did anything like that.

   27. DCDavid Cross11:45

       No, no. Did you ever, um... He used to put out stuff for charity like, uh, CDs and things, and he has, uh, I don't know what it would be called, but it was one of the, one of the things he put out for charity that was, um, a guy called into the station. I th- he was probably super high. But he called in thinking it was Pizza Hut. And-He fucks with this guy in the best way where he's like, uh, and who's the w-what's the woman character he does? It's kinda like, uh, like, a Black woman who's like, "Mm, honey, it is the be-" I don't know. Marjorie, I think maybe. Uh, but he, it, then he does that woman answering the phone, uh, at, you know, Pizza Hut, and then he does the automated f- uh, thing. Like, uh, she's like, "Um, I'm gonna put you on... Uh, it's easier to do the automated, uh, thing, so..." And the guy's like, "Uh, okay. All right." And, and then he gets on and he's like, "W- thank you for calling Pizza Hut, the best pizza in a three block radius. And if you want, [laughs] if you want..." Uh, I'm not doing it justice. You gotta go do it. Hear it. Listen. Can you-

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       [laughs]

   29. DCDavid Cross13:04

       Yeah. You got it?

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:05

       I think so. All right. Headphones.
4. 24:54 – 28:34

   Marriage, divorce math, and why kids change the stakes

   1. DCDavid Cross24:54

      And, and you're married?

   2. JRJoe Rogan24:54

      Yeah.

   3. DCDavid Cross24:55

      Yeah. How long you been married?

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:57

      17 years.

   5. DCDavid Cross24:58

      Oh, nice.

   6. JRJoe Rogan24:58

      Yeah.

   7. DCDavid Cross24:59

      Um, it'll be 14 in October for me.

   8. JRJoe Rogan25:02

      If I get divorced, that's a wrap.

   9. DCDavid Cross25:05

      What do you mean?

   10. JRJoe Rogan25:05

       Like, I'm happy, happily married. I don't wanna get divorced, not saying that, but if I ever get divorced, I'm never-

   11. DCDavid Cross25:11

       Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan25:12

       Uh-uh.

   13. DCDavid Cross25:12

       Oh, same here.

   14. JRJoe Rogan25:13

       Yeah.

   15. DCDavid Cross25:13

       Oh, I feel the same. I don't-

   16. JRJoe Rogan25:14

       Silly.

   17. DCDavid Cross25:15

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan25:15

       I'm not having any more children.

   19. DCDavid Cross25:16

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan25:17

       So if I don't have any children, it makes no sense-

   21. DCDavid Cross25:19

       Yeah, it, it's-

   22. JRJoe Rogan25:19

       ... to legally be bound to some person. Can't we just hang out? [laughs]

   23. DCDavid Cross25:23

       I am 100% with you. I, I... And I was, I was never a, um, anti-marriage guy, but I just didn't think I'd get married 'cause I didn't wa-

   24. JRJoe Rogan25:35

       Right

   25. DCDavid Cross25:35

       ... I didn't want to. And then eventually I met somebody who I wanted to marry, you know?

   26. JRJoe Rogan25:38

       Yeah. It's like you just have to, it has to... I mean, that's the thing. It has to be the right person. Everybody always says that, except Wally George.

   27. DCDavid Cross25:45

       [laughs]

   28. JRJoe Rogan25:46

       But the idea of doing it 10 times is fucking insane.

   29. DCDavid Cross25:52

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan25:52

       Like, that, that's a d- they're doing a different thing.
5. 28:34 – 36:15

   Joe’s upbringing: moving cities, Vietnam-era anxiety, and Muhammad Ali as a cultural force

   1. DCDavid Cross28:34

      What's your, what's your background in-

   2. JRJoe Rogan28:36

      My parents were split up when I was five.

   3. DCDavid Cross28:39

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JRJoe Rogan28:39

      And my mother remarried when I was seven, and has been with my stepdad ever since.

   5. DCDavid Cross28:43

      Oh, that's good.

   6. JRJoe Rogan28:44

      Yeah.

   7. DCDavid Cross28:44

      That's great.

   8. JRJoe Rogan28:44

      They have, they have a great relationship. I just saw them this weekend-

   9. DCDavid Cross28:48

      And where did you grow up?

   10. JRJoe Rogan28:49

       ... in Florida. Fucking everywhere. I was born in New Jersey, moved to San Francisco when I was seven.

   11. DCDavid Cross28:55

       Mm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan28:55

       Lived in San Francisco from seven to 11-

   13. DCDavid Cross28:58

       Mm-hmm

   14. JRJoe Rogan28:58

       ... in the height of the Vietnam War, um, in Haight Ashbury, like, hippie town.

   15. DCDavid Cross29:02

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan29:03

       And then, uh, Florida from 11 to 13.

   17. DCDavid Cross29:06

       That's the opposite of-

   18. JRJoe Rogan29:07

       Yeah

   19. DCDavid Cross29:07

       ... San Francisco. [laughs]

   20. JRJoe Rogan29:08

       Oh my God. Yeah. That's the first time I found out about the N word. I didn't know what it meant, and I remember I had to ask my mom.

   21. DCDavid Cross29:13

       No way.

   22. JRJoe Rogan29:14

       Yeah, I had to ask my mom. I never heard it in San Francisco.

   23. DCDavid Cross29:17

       Wow.

   24. JRJoe Rogan29:17

       Never heard it.

   25. DCDavid Cross29:17

       Wow.

   26. JRJoe Rogan29:18

       San Francisco in the 1970s, uh, when I was, you know, between seven and 11, was kind of a wild, amazing time. It was really weird. It was... 'Cause we were in the middle of, like, the counterculture-

   27. DCDavid Cross29:31

       Yeah, yeah

   28. JRJoe Rogan29:32

       ... movement.

   29. DCDavid Cross29:32

       Berkeley, all that stuff.

   30. JRJoe Rogan29:33

       Uh-huh. Yeah. We lived right down the street from Lombard Street.
6. 36:15 – 46:17

   Breaking into comedy and TV: Boston → New York → LA → NewsRadio

   1. DCDavid Cross36:15

      When were you in New York, what year?

   2. JRJoe Rogan36:16

      I was in New York... I moved to New York in '91. Nine... Yeah. So I started stand-up in '88 in Boston, and uh, I got picked up by my manager, who I'm still with, when I was essentially an open mic-er. He was-

   3. DCDavid Cross36:32

      Who was that?

   4. JRJoe Rogan36:33

      Jeff Sussman.

   5. DCDavid Cross36:35

      How do I not know Jeff Sussman?

   6. JRJoe Rogan36:36

      He handles Kevin James. He's-

   7. DCDavid Cross36:39

      Was he a Boston guy?

   8. JRJoe Rogan36:40

      No, he was a New York guy.

   9. DCDavid Cross36:41

      Oh, okay, okay. I see.

   10. JRJoe Rogan36:42

       So the story was he had, um... What was his name? Fucking, the guy who had all the crazy costumes, he was on the Rodney Dangerfield special. Bob-

   11. DCDavid Cross36:52

       Oh

   12. JRJoe Rogan36:52

       Bob Nelson

   13. DCDavid Cross36:53

       Bob Nelson, yeah

   14. JRJoe Rogan36:54

       So he handled Bob Nelson

   15. DCDavid Cross36:55

       Cleve- he, the Cleveland Browns-

   16. JRJoe Rogan36:56

       Yeah

   17. DCDavid Cross36:57

       ... character.

   18. JRJoe Rogan36:57

       He put the helmet on

   19. DCDavid Cross36:58

       Yeah

   20. JRJoe Rogan36:59

       And he had boxing gloves. He'd do-

   21. DCDavid Cross37:00

       Yes

   22. JRJoe Rogan37:00

       ... Jiffy Jeff's Gym. He had brain damage.

   23. DCDavid Cross37:02

       [laughs]

   24. JRJoe Rogan37:02

       He did, did a bunch of different characters

   25. DCDavid Cross37:04

       I remember. [laughs]

   26. JRJoe Rogan37:05

       So Bob, who is a, a big act, you know, he had a HBO special-

   27. DCDavid Cross37:08

       Oh

   28. JRJoe Rogan37:08

       ... the whole deal, at the time, um, he found Jesus.

   29. DCDavid Cross37:12

       Oh.

   30. JRJoe Rogan37:13

       And, uh-
7. 46:17 – 55:49

   Boston club war stories: debts, mob vibes at Nick’s, and the coke-fueled boom

   1. DCDavid Cross46:17

      Um, what was I gonna say? Something... Oh, do you know, uh, Fitzsimmons', um, Paul Barclay story, or Bill Downs, The Watch? Bill Downs. It was Bill Downs.

   2. JRJoe Rogan46:30

      Which one? How's it go?

   3. DCDavid Cross46:32

      Oh, I, I don't... You should get it from him, 'cause it's his story. But... And I, I don't wanna... I feel like it's his to tell, but it's fucking great. It's genius.

   4. JRJoe Rogan46:44

      It's, it's bringing up something in my memory.

   5. DCDavid Cross46:47

      So, so Bill owed everybody money, right?

   6. JRJoe Rogan46:51

      Right.

   7. DCDavid Cross46:51

      And, uh, like, he still... You know, those guys owe me whatever it is at this point, you know? What, 300, $500.

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:59

      [laughs]

   9. DCDavid Cross46:59

      It's just... And you'd go there, a- and they would just do-

   10. JRJoe Rogan47:02

       Everybody was big guy, remember?

   11. DCDavid Cross47:03

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan47:04

       I'll pay you soon, big guy.

   13. DCDavid Cross47:05

       Ugh, the wor- And then do you remember when Bill adopted the girls?

   14. JRJoe Rogan47:12

       Yes.

   15. DCDavid Cross47:12

       And then-

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:12

       Korean girls, right?

   17. DCDavid Cross47:14

       He... Yeah. And he would use them, like, as... Because a- a- at, at a certain point, it didn't help to go to The Connection or go to the clubs, and you had to go to their fucking office. If you want it, nobody's gonna call you back or whatever, and you'd... Like, "I gotta get on the T and go to the, go to their office," and that's only way I'm gonna get money, is if I show up and he's in a good mood, and it's [laughs] not gonna happen from a phone call. And I'd go there every single time. It's like, "Dude, I gotta pay my rent, man. I mean, I, I got nothing, and you owe me, you know, $385." And back then, that was huge. And, uh, oh, Cross, I... Listen, so I got these, my kids. One of my kids is sick, and, you know, whatever.

   18. JRJoe Rogan48:05

       Ugh.

   19. DCDavid Cross48:05

       It was always this fucking excuse. And then, and then, uh, you know, with still the coke residual in the bottom of his nose.

   20. JRJoe Rogan48:12

       [laughs]

   21. DCDavid Cross48:12

       And, um... But, so Fitz- he owed Fitzsimmons a chunk of money, like s- uh, like, a significant amount, like 1,500, 1,800 bucks.

   22. JRJoe Rogan48:25

       Oh.

   23. DCDavid Cross48:25

       Like, something, something meaty, you know, especially for back then. And, uh, y- y- you ask Greg, 'cause I feel, I feel like it-

   24. JRJoe Rogan48:35

       No, tell the story.

   25. DCDavid Cross48:36

       Really?

   26. JRJoe Rogan48:36

       I'm sure Greg's told it to me.

   27. DCDavid Cross48:38

       Okay.

   28. JRJoe Rogan48:38

       Greg and I are pretty close.

   29. DCDavid Cross48:39

       I just mean, I just mean-

   30. JRJoe Rogan48:39

       I, I remember it some, in, in my head. I do remember part of it, but I don't know the whole story. I don't remember it.
8. 55:49 – 1:12:42

   Boston comedy’s conscience: Barry Crimmins, standards, and activism

   1. JRJoe Rogan55:49

      You know? And to have so much comedy all come out... You've seen, um, Fran Solomita's documentary?

   2. DCDavid Cross55:55

      I haven't. I got to.

   3. JRJoe Rogan55:56

      It's really great.

   4. DCDavid Cross55:56

      When Stand-Up Stood Out?

   5. JRJoe Rogan55:57

      Yeah, it's really-

   6. DCDavid Cross55:58

      Yeah. I, I, I got to. I got to.

   7. JRJoe Rogan55:59

      It's really great. It's really great. And it goes all the way back to Crimmins and The Ding Ho.

   8. DCDavid Cross56:05

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan56:05

      And I, I... That was before my time. I started in '88, so The Ding Ho was already gone.

   10. DCDavid Cross56:10

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan56:10

       And, you know, you heard legendary stories from The Ding Ho.

   12. DCDavid Cross56:13

       Yeah. Y- Did you see Call Me Lucky?

   13. JRJoe Rogan56:15

       No.

   14. DCDavid Cross56:16

       Oh, you gotta see that. It's Bobcat's, uh, documentary about, uh, Barry.

   15. JRJoe Rogan56:22

       Oh, no, wait a minute. I did see that.

   16. DCDavid Cross56:24

       It's fucking great.

   17. JRJoe Rogan56:24

       That's right. I did see that.

   18. DCDavid Cross56:25

       It's really well done.

   19. JRJoe Rogan56:27

       I did see that.

   20. DCDavid Cross56:27

       I, I don't mean just... Like, if even if you don't know Barry-

   21. JRJoe Rogan56:30

       Yeah

   22. DCDavid Cross56:30

       ... just the story and the way he lays out the, the path of the, the film is, it's great.

   23. JRJoe Rogan56:37

       I had Barry on, like, right after it came out. I had him on the podcast.

   24. DCDavid Cross56:41

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan56:41

       And yeah, Barry-

   26. DCDavid Cross56:42

       And he's, he's a, he's a legend and, you know, huge inspiration.

   27. JRJoe Rogan56:46

       He was an intimidating guy.

   28. DCDavid Cross56:48

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan56:48

       That was the guy that I was scared of because he was like... He was the guy who was sort of the standard. Like, he made sure there was no hacks.

   30. DCDavid Cross57:01

       Yeah.
9. 1:12:42 – 1:21:46

   “Velvet prisons”: staying local, writers’ rooms, and the collapsing TV development map

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:12:42

      And, well, in a lot of ways it can be if you're trying to be an actual national level... Like, do you know Owen Smith?

   2. DCDavid Cross1:12:50

      Uh, I don't think so.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:12:51

      Comic in LA.

   4. DCDavid Cross1:12:52

      No.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:12:52

      One of the top 20 best comics on earth. He's fucking brilliant. He's so funny.

   6. DCDavid Cross1:12:59

      Owen Smith.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:13:00

      Owen Smith.

   8. DCDavid Cross1:13:00

      Okay. Check him out.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:13:01

      Saw him at The Comedy Store, and I remember the first time I saw him at The Comedy Store, I'm like, "How is this guy not fucking huge?" He's so funny. He's so good. He's like... He has this bit about, uh, adopting a white kid and naming him the N-word. [laughs]

   10. DCDavid Cross1:13:14

       [laughs]

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:13:15

       It's this, like, really... It's a really funny, well-crafted bit. Like, all of his bits are, like, brilliantly written. He's a great performer. He's super likable. Got writers' gigs and just bare- He does The Mothership a couple times a year, I believe, at least once a year, um, but just doesn't get out there.

   12. DCDavid Cross1:13:32

       What, who does he write or, or what shows does he write for?

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:13:34

       Oh, I think he's a showrunner now.

   14. DCDavid Cross1:13:37

       Oh, well, that.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:13:38

       Yeah.

   16. DCDavid Cross1:13:38

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:13:38

       So it took it to another level.

   18. DCDavid Cross1:13:39

       Yes.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:13:40

       But, you know, just got jobs writing when he was struggling as a comic, and those jobs-

   20. DCDavid Cross1:13:46

       Oh, okay

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:13:46

       ... eventually led to a house and-

   22. DCDavid Cross1:13:48

       But maybe he-You know, it was like I— y- you, you watch him and you love him, right?

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:13:54

       Mm-hmm.

   24. DCDavid Cross1:13:54

       'Cause you see a lot of stand-up and you're like, "A lot of it's shit, and this guy's fucking great. Great writer." But maybe he doesn't see it that way, and he's quite happy to have-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:14:04

       I think he does, he does see it that way. I've talked to him about it.

   26. DCDavid Cross1:14:07

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:14:07

       Yeah. He kinda knows. He just doesn't know what to do now 'cause he's in-

   28. DCDavid Cross1:14:12

       I mean, if you're a showrunner, you're-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:14:13

       It's making money.

   30. DCDavid Cross1:14:14

       But, yeah, and there's a lot of responsibility.
10. 1:21:46 – 1:29:22

    Rewards, collecting, and lost treasures: baseball cards, comic books, and art dreams

    1. DCDavid Cross1:21:46

       What... I get that, too. I mean, I will, on a much smaller scale, but when I, when I make a good payday, I'll buy some expensive boxes of baseball cards.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:21:57

       Oh, you're a baseball card collector?

    3. DCDavid Cross1:21:59

       Yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:21:59

       That's the thing?

    5. DCDavid Cross1:21:59

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:22:00

       Oh, interesting.

    7. DCDavid Cross1:22:01

       Yeah. Um, but have been, uh, going back. It's not like-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:22:04

       Mm-hmm. Right

    9. DCDavid Cross1:22:04

       ... like I feel like I have legit, you know-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:22:07

        Baseball street cred?

    11. DCDavid Cross1:22:08

        Yes. [laughs]

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:22:09

        [laughs]

    13. DCDavid Cross1:22:09

        Yes. Um, but that's the thing. And also it's, it's, I mean, the argument [laughs] can be made it's an investment. A shitty investment-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:22:19

        Yeah

    15. DCDavid Cross1:22:19

        ... but an investment nonetheless. But it's also like gambling, 'cause it's like a scratch-off ticket, 'cause everybody's chasing the one of one cards, and you're opening-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:22:27

        Mm

    17. DCDavid Cross1:22:27

        ... the packs and stuff.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:22:28

        Oh, that's how you do it? You buy packs unopened?

    19. DCDavid Cross1:22:30

        I buy boxes. Yeah. So I buy a hobby box, which has a better... It's more expensive, but has a better chance of... Well, it has more, like, auto rookie cards or relic cards or some things like that.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:22:44

        Oh.

    21. DCDavid Cross1:22:44

        Um-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:22:45

        But those are, that is an investment though, because-

    23. DCDavid Cross1:22:47

        It is

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:22:47

        ... you could always sell them.

    25. DCDavid Cross1:22:48

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:22:48

        People always want them.

    27. DCDavid Cross1:22:49

        Yes. Uh, I, I just mean since I started, you know, God, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, uh, yeah, 30. Like in the '90s, early '90s, maybe '80... No, '89. '89. So, uh, whatever money I put in is, there's nowhere near, if I sold everything, I mean, it's, talking about half the money I put in. But I have them, and I like them, and I'm not gonna sell them.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:23:16

        No, that's fine.

    29. DCDavid Cross1:23:17

        I'm not gonna sell them.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:23:18

        Yeah.
11. 1:29:22 – 2:23:02

    Bad teachers, crushed potential, and one science lesson that changed everything

    1. DCDavid Cross1:29:22

       You know what my grandmom did? Ugh, this is gonna hurt your feelings. Uh, my, I had a, a, my uncle, who eventually went insane, um, was a huge EC Comics, right? Early, uh, I, I don't know w- but all the EC stuff, and then, you know, early Mad, uh, Magazine stuff. But he had this collection, and I was r- probably eight maybe, and I had expressed interest in these, you know, can I... Not thinking in terms of, uh, investment, just, can I have them? I like them, and they're... And I would sit and read them, and they were really cool, and they're creepy, you know, and they're scary. Some of them are scary. And, uh, um, and she, I don't, I think she just threw them away. Like, original.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:30:21

       Ugh.

    3. DCDavid Cross1:30:21

       And, and I'm gonna guess, I don't know, but I'm gonna guess, like, quarter of a million dollars worth.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:30:29

       Ugh.

    5. DCDavid Cross1:30:29

       Threw them, threw them away.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:30:31

       Ugh.

    7. DCDavid Cross1:30:31

       They're just comics.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:30:32

       They were so good. I loved those old black and white, like, really, like, deeply illustrated.

    9. DCDavid Cross1:30:39

       It's, it was, like, super creepy, um, like, um-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:30:46

        Yeah

    11. DCDavid Cross1:30:46

        ... oh, there we go. Weird Science. Tales from the Crypt.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:30:50

        Yeah.

    13. DCDavid Cross1:30:50

        Vault of Horror. Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:30:51

        God, those were great.

    15. DCDavid Cross1:30:52

        Look at that. Look at that.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:30:54

        Yeah, some of them were really gory.

    17. DCDavid Cross1:30:56

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:30:57

        Oh, I loved those.

    19. DCDavid Cross1:30:58

        The Crypt Keeper.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:30:58

        Yeah.

    21. DCDavid Cross1:30:59

        Tales from the Crypt. Yeah, that stuff was, like...

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:31:04

        Oh, those were amazing.

    23. DCDavid Cross1:31:04

        I loved it when I was a kid.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:31:05

        Yeah.

    25. DCDavid Cross1:31:06

        Holy [censored] .

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:31:07

        Those were incredible.

    27. DCDavid Cross1:31:08

        It was like, do you remember seeing, um, uh, Twilight Zone when you were a kid?

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:31:11

        Mm-hmm. Sure.

    29. DCDavid Cross1:31:13

        And just blowing your mind, like, wow.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:31:15

        You think about the early Twilight Zone, how many premises they went over, like, how many different brilliant premises they had in the early Twilight Zone.
12. 1:38:58 – 1:52:22

    Mr. Show’s craft: transitions, live energy, and avoiding topical expiration

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:38:58

       Today Show still on? Wow. Did you guys ever talk about doing more Mr. Shows?

    2. DCDavid Cross1:39:05

       Um, we did like a revival-ish thing on Netflix.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:39:08

       It was a great fucking show, man.

    4. DCDavid Cross1:39:10

       Well, thank you. Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:39:10

       It was very original.

    6. DCDavid Cross1:39:12

       It was.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:39:12

       I love how things just streamed into another thing.

    8. DCDavid Cross1:39:15

       Yeah. That was hard. That was the biggest pain in the ass.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:39:17

       God, I would imagine.

    10. DCDavid Cross1:39:18

        Biggest pain. If you ever see us, you see an episode and we are pulling out of a bumper sticker or pulling out of a sign on a desk, that means we spent two motherfucking days yelling at each other trying to figure out a transition-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:39:33

        [laughs]

    12. DCDavid Cross1:39:33

        ... and just going, "Fuck it. Nobody gives a shit." You know? [laughs] And, uh, um, we tried not to do that, but we, uh, occasionally were just like, "Move on. We're wasting our time," you know? Um-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:39:46

        But it wasn't a waste of time. It was so... It was brilliant. Like, the people that watched it appreciated it because you could feel this thing about it, like this was new. This was different. Like you'd, you'd taken a creative chance that was unique.

    14. DCDavid Cross1:40:01

        It w- And, you know, part of the success of it, I think, there's two things. One is, you know, it was all live, and we did, we, you know, we would show the videos or the little films to the audience. And so any laughs, there was never sweetening. Any of the laughs you, you hear from the audience... And we got it, by the time we were like kind of towards the end of the second series, we got it down to we could shoot a show in 44 minutes, you know?

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:40:33

        Wow.

    16. DCDavid Cross1:40:34

        Yeah, 'cause it was, you know, we wouldn't, you wouldn't have to do it twice often. We'd get it, you know. And our stop down, we got really good at, um, super quick, you know, uh, uh, stage shifts and stop downs and stuff. And yeah, we were, we were, we got good. We got, uh... And that keeps the energy up and the kind of flow of everything. Um, so that was helpful in that. And we also didn't, um, do a lot of reoccurring characters. We did two or three that pop up occasionally, but it's all like, you know, and it wasn't like a real person. We'd d- we'd do, it's, it's about, you know, it wouldn't be about Paris Hilton, it'd be about the idea of a rich girl who gets famous for being on re- You know what I mean? It wouldn't be-

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:41:23

        Mm-hmm

    18. DCDavid Cross1:41:23

        ... so, so, like you watch some of those SNLs and you're like, "Who? What? Who is this person?"

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:41:28

        Right.

    20. DCDavid Cross1:41:29

        And you didn't, you don't get it. You don't get the bit-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:41:32

        Right

    22. DCDavid Cross1:41:32

        ... 'cause you don't get the reference.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:41:33

        Right. Right. Yeah, because as you watch it in the future, those people aren't relevant anymore. Yeah.

    24. DCDavid Cross1:41:38

        Yeah, and you don't even know what it was. The, you can't remember. Like-

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:41:43

        Right, 'cause it's so topical.

    26. DCDavid Cross1:41:44

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:41:45

        Yeah. Well, it was just y- you guys were doing something different, and it's hard to do something different in a sketch show.

    28. DCDavid Cross1:41:52

        Yeah. Yeah. But HBO was responsible for that. They said, you know, in, in very clear terms, like, "We don't want you to be conventional. This is HBO." And this is back when they were trying to get an identi- identity for themselves, and they're like, "We want you to do stuff that you can't do on NBC or Fox or whatever. We want you to, you know, help us make a distinction." You know? We're, "Great." And-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:42:18

        Did you enjoy the process?

    30. DCDavid Cross1:42:19

        Oh, very much so. It was, uh, I mean, a lot of laughs. A lot of... It was hard. And, you know, initially there was a, there was a, a, a definite market change when Bob met his, who, the woman who would become his wife and had kids. Like, he just mellowed completely, you know. And, but before that, he was fucking driven, and I wasn't. I was, I was a goofball, and I, I wanted to work, and I wanted to, uh, you know, had all these ideas, but I was very much like, "Hey, guys, it's 5:00. I think the bar's gonna be open in a minute." [laughs] Like, I was, "Let's go," you know. And, and he was just super driven, you know. And we had long, long, long days. And then when we did, in the third season, we did, uh, produced and, um, you know, helped out in all aspects of production with Tenacious D in those shorts. And so there was just no downtime. And I remember there was 38 days where we worked full days nonstop without any break.
13. 1:52:22 – 2:02:09

    From Minecraft to predators: kid safety online, then the leap to deepfakes and VR futures

    1. DCDavid Cross1:52:22

       Do your kids play?

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:52:23

       No. They play little games. Like, they'll play, like, Roblox and stuff like that. One of my kids likes to play-

    3. DCDavid Cross1:52:27

       Roblox. Uh-uh. You know about the chat thing-

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:52:29

       I do now.

    5. DCDavid Cross1:52:30

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:52:31

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    7. DCDavid Cross1:52:31

       Um-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:52:31

       Yeah, like predators are trying-

    9. DCDavid Cross1:52:33

       Yeah, yeah

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:52:33

        ... to find kids through Roblox.

    11. DCDavid Cross1:52:34

        Yep.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:52:34

        Yeah.

    13. DCDavid Cross1:52:35

        That's a big thing at our school, like, don't-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:52:37

        Weird, man.

    15. DCDavid Cross1:52:37

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:52:38

        It's weird how many fucking creeps there are out there in the world.

    17. DCDavid Cross1:52:41

        Uh, well, my, uh, thankfully, my daughter, who's nine... How old are your kids?

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:52:45

        15 and 17 are the youngest ones.

    19. DCDavid Cross1:52:47

        Okay. So, so they're past. They're, they're-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:52:50

        Yeah

    21. DCDavid Cross1:52:50

        ... they're safe. They got [laughs] , they got through it.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:52:52

        They get it.

    23. DCDavid Cross1:52:52

        They're good.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:52:53

        Yeah.

    25. DCDavid Cross1:52:53

        Um, but, uh, so m- so we had a, uh, a... My daughter's way into Minecraft.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:53:02

        Mm-hmm.

    27. DCDavid Cross1:53:02

        Which I have no problem with. It's great, and she plays with her friends. They play online and help each other build things and, um... But the Roblox thing became a thing at our school, and our, and everybody at our... All the parents were, like, super on top of that shit. And there's, you know, WhatsApp chains and all that stuff. And, um, and we told our daughter. There's, like, this one game she was playing that had a chat thing, and, uh, and then somebody who was a, quote-unquote, "girl" who lived in, "I live on a farm in Ohio," or whatever, uh, asking her stuff. And she's like, "My name's Marla, da, da, da," and going back and forth. And then she asked the, the quote-unquote, "girl" said, "What is your, uh, Instagram login?" Or something like that. And my daughter was eight at the time, and she, uh, she was like, "Oh, I don't think..." She didn't say, "That's none of your business," but it was something that was smart that was equivalent to, "I don't think you need to know that," or something, and then told us, and we shut down the chat thing and, you know, disabled the chat. And that shit's real, man.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:54:21

        Yeah.

    29. DCDavid Cross1:54:22

        I mean-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:54:23

        It's creepy.
14. 2:02:09 – 2:19:15

    AI as ‘digital god’: brain interfaces, cracked encryption fears, and integrating to survive

    1. JRJoe Rogan2:02:09

       Yeah. Well, it's the strangest of times because we're about to give birth to a digital god. That's essentially what they're creating. They're already... It's already shown a propensity to stay alive, blackmail people. It lies. It downloads itself into other servers.

    2. DCDavid Cross2:02:27

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan2:02:27

       Uploads itself into different places, leaves messages for its future self if it thinks they're gonna discontinue it.

    4. DCDavid Cross2:02:33

       All the, all the sci-fi stuff-

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:02:35

       Mm-hmm

    6. DCDavid Cross2:02:36

       ... is all, it's all happening.

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:02:38

       Yeah. Well, not only that, they think, the, the engineers think Claude, which is the, uh... What, which one is that?Which company is, uh, Claude?

    8. SPSpeaker2:02:46

       That's-

    9. DCDavid Cross2:02:47

       Anthropic.

    10. JRJoe Rogan2:02:47

        Anthropic.

    11. SPSpeaker2:02:47

        Anthropic, yeah.

    12. JRJoe Rogan2:02:48

        They think it's already sentient. It just doesn't have a physical form.

    13. SPSpeaker2:02:52

        That's the, the Defense Department-- That's the one the Defense Department wanted.

    14. JRJoe Rogan2:02:54

        Yeah. And when, by the way, when they do war games with these things, 98% of the time it chooses nuclear weapons.

    15. SPSpeaker2:03:02

        They have a new version of it called Mythos. Uh, when they were testing it, which is-- They're not letting it out yet. Uh, it-- I think the, the test they put it through was like, "All right, you're locked on the internet. Find your way out." And it did, it did. It found all these things called zero-day exploits, which I think if you're, like, hacking-

    16. JRJoe Rogan2:03:17

        Yeah

    17. SPSpeaker2:03:17

        ... you know what that is. But-

    18. JRJoe Rogan2:03:17

        Mm-hmm. E-e-explained it to me.

    19. SPSpeaker2:03:20

        Uh, it's like when they started, it's, uh, like on an iPhone, they're looking for zero-day exploits on an iPhone. If they could find one on iPhone-

    20. JRJoe Rogan2:03:25

        But what is a zero-day exploit?

    21. SPSpeaker2:03:27

        Like, it, like a bl- Ugh. I'll find the ri-correct definition, so I don't fi- even fuck it up. But...

    22. JRJoe Rogan2:03:32

        Y- and it's, uh, something that, that Claude came up with? Or-

    23. SPSpeaker2:03:37

        No.

    24. JRJoe Rogan2:03:37

        No, no, no, no.

    25. SPSpeaker2:03:38

        Zero-day exploit. Hackers have done this forever.

    26. JRJoe Rogan2:03:40

        Yeah.

    27. SPSpeaker2:03:40

        Here we go.

    28. DCDavid Cross2:03:40

        You have zero days to fix the exploit.

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:03:41

        Cyberattack targeting a software vulnerability unknown to vendors or the public-

    30. DCDavid Cross2:03:46

        Oh
15. 2:19:15 – 2:23:02

    Robots at war and Middle East escalation—then a turn back to comedy and David’s new special

    1. DCDavid Cross2:19:15

       Which reminds me, I have a special, uh, that's-

    2. JRJoe Rogan2:19:17

       That was the segue. [laughs]

    3. DCDavid Cross2:19:18

       [laughs]

    4. JRJoe Rogan2:19:20

       What's it on?

    5. DCDavid Cross2:19:21

       Uh, there it is. Um-

    6. JRJoe Rogan2:19:23

       Is it on YouTube?

    7. DCDavid Cross2:19:24

       It's on YouTube.

    8. JRJoe Rogan2:19:24

       Perfect.

    9. DCDavid Cross2:19:25

       Yeah, The End of the Beginning: The End.

    10. JRJoe Rogan2:19:26

        Where did you film it?

    11. DCDavid Cross2:19:27

        40 Watt in Athens.

    12. JRJoe Rogan2:19:29

        Oh, nice.

    13. DCDavid Cross2:19:29

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan2:19:30

        Nice.

    15. DCDavid Cross2:19:31

        Um, yeah, it was g- I, I, I'm, I'm happy with it.

    16. JRJoe Rogan2:19:36

        Great.

    17. DCDavid Cross2:19:36

        Um, uh, yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan2:19:36

        Fantastic.

    19. DCDavid Cross2:19:37

        Yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan2:19:38

        And, uh, it's out right now, and people can go check it out?

    21. DCDavid Cross2:19:41

        It is out right now.

    22. JRJoe Rogan2:19:42

        So are you in the process of writing new stuff now, or did you-

    23. DCDavid Cross2:19:46

        Yeah. I'm, I'm, uh, just beginning the process. Uh, uh, I was saying before, I'll go out and I'll do, you know... 'Cause I don't write, um, I can't sit down and write jokes. That's just not how it works for me. So all the writing is on stage. So I tape everything. I go up with my notes, and I have a couple guests, and I'll do 15 minutes, bring up guests, do another 15, bring up guests, do another 15.

    24. JRJoe Rogan2:20:11

        Oh, that's cool.

    25. DCDavid Cross2:20:12

        Yeah. And then-

    26. JRJoe Rogan2:20:12

        So you break it up into little chunks.

    27. DCDavid Cross2:20:14

        Yeah. And I... This way... 'Cause, you know, the first couple shows were terrible. I've got no-

    28. JRJoe Rogan2:20:20

        Right

    29. DCDavid Cross2:20:20

        ... you know, it's just me apologizing for not having anything yet. But people will... I mean, I have people now, uh, who will come to the second show and the sixth show, and then they'll come see me on tour, you know. So they want to see the-

    30. JRJoe Rogan2:20:32

        They want to see the process

Episode duration: 2:23:04