John Fogerty on Joe Rogan: How His Own Label Sued His Sound

Joe Rogan 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

John Fogerty 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat rock music]

John Fogerty 0:13 Think I can just step on the floor right here?

Joe Rogan 0:14 It doesn't matter. You can leave it on the table. It's fine. There's water there, too, uh, in this metal cup, and then there's coffee.

John Fogerty 0:23 Oh, thanks so much.

Joe Rogan 0:23 There's coffee in here.

John Fogerty 0:24 Okay, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:24 If you'd like some coffee.

John Fogerty 0:25 Yeah, ready to... I have some notes that I'll probably never look at, but-

Joe Rogan 0:30 You got notes?

John Fogerty 0:32 Me?

Joe Rogan 0:34 What, what's on the notes?

John Fogerty 0:36 Uh, just stuff, like what I went through with CCR and all that. But tell me something, did you, did you read up on me or anything, or-

Joe Rogan 0:46 I'm a huge fan. I don't have to read up on you.

John Fogerty 0:49 Okay.

Joe Rogan 0:49 I read up on you a little bit, just to catch up about how you got out of the, the... Well, you did do military service.

John Fogerty 0:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 0:56 But you got out by smoking a lot of weed and not eating. I read that. Is that true?

John Fogerty 1:01 No.

Joe Rogan 1:02 Is that true? They lied? There was a story about you smoking a lot of weed and, uh-

John Fogerty 1:07 Oh

Joe Rogan 1:07 ... getting emaciated so you can get out of the Army.

John Fogerty 1:10 Well, i- it's not quite in that sequence, but those things did happen.

Joe Rogan 1:17 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:18 Yeah. I had, I had determined to lose a lot of weight, right? So I was kinda really s- skinny by 1967, '68. Uh, I mean, like 100... I think it was 129 pounds.

Joe Rogan 1:37 Whoa.

John Fogerty 1:38 Yeah. Um, and then I was gonna go, uh, to the, I think it was the Presidio, and I had to meet with a Army doctor, right? And my friends gave me a couple of joints, and I stuck 'em in... You know, I used to smoke in those days, cigarettes. I stuck it in the cigarette, and going across the Bay Bridge [laughs] I smoked 'em. My, that's so fu- I hadn't even thought about it. So if you want, yeah, man, he, he, he went on a starvation di- a protest diet, and then smoked a lot of weed.

Joe Rogan 2:13 That's what I heard.

John Fogerty 2:14 Wasn't quite that way, but yeah, okay. But it's, it's essentially some truth.

Joe Rogan 2:19 Some truth to it.

John Fogerty 2:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:21 Uh, you had a legendary career, my friend. Legendary.

John Fogerty 2:24 [laughs] Thank you. Still working on it.

Joe Rogan 2:26 It's incredible, man. You, you are, like, one of the main voices of rock and roll in America, if you really think about it. Your songs, I mean, they're... You have so many gigantic hits. You know, when, uh, the UFC, uh, has a lot of walkout songs, you know when fighters come out and walk out? A lot of guys walk out to your music. I don't even know if you're aware of it.

John Fogerty 2:48 I've been-

Joe Rogan 2:49 But Fortunate Son is a big one.

John Fogerty 2:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:51 Bad Moon Rising, that's another big one people walk out to.

John Fogerty 2:55 Great. Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:56 It's pretty awesome.

John Fogerty 2:57 Wow. Yeah, I'm, I'm not that aware of the UFC stuff, but it, you know, everybody, whatever floats your boat.

Joe Rogan 3:05 Well, people just love your music.

John Fogerty 3:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:07 You, so you went through many generations. Like, you got your first record contract, how old were you?

John Fogerty 3:15 Um, I know I signed one when I was around 19. Of course, it would've been i- i- unenforceable because I-

Joe Rogan 3:23 It's not legal at the time, right?

John Fogerty 3:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:25 You had to be 21 for the-

John Fogerty 3:26 Yeah

Joe Rogan 3:26 ... the deal?

John Fogerty 3:26 I, I believe so.

Joe Rogan 3:28 Yeah. There's... Well, you're also one of the first rock and roll artists that wrote songs, uh, that became very popular about how you're getting screwed over by the record business.

John Fogerty 3:40 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:40 You know what I mean? I mean, well, so Lynyrd Skynyrd did it, Working for MCA, they did that song. But you had Vance Can't Dance.

John Fogerty 3:48 It was actually Zant's Can't Dance.

Joe Rogan 3:49 But you had to change it, right?

John Fogerty 3:51 Yep. Yeah, the name of the person was Zant. Uh, it, it sold about a half a million copies as Zant's, but the record company, Warner Brothers, in their way of settling somewhat, um, had me change it to Vance. Yep.

Joe Rogan 4:11 'Cause the guy's name was Zant that-

John Fogerty 4:13 Zant, yeah

Joe Rogan 4:14 ... was, that was screwing you up.

John Fogerty 4:15 Um, that's right in the middle of, that whole thing was a mess. I got sued for sounding like myself.

Joe Rogan 4:25 What?

John Fogerty 4:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:27 How'd that happen?

John Fogerty 4:29 I'll tell you.

Joe Rogan 4:30 [laughs]

John Fogerty 4:31 So, and I didn't find this out until... There was eventually a trial. So it's n- many people think that that's funny. "You got sued for sounding like yourself? Why, that's funny." Well, no, you're s- getting a legal lawsuit that's probably gonna take away a lot of your, uh, money, and you're gonna go through three, four years of anguish. Well, anyway, um, ended up in a trial. He was suing me for, at the time, was an enormous amount of money, $144 million for his, uh, whatever, mental anguish or something. Um, r- the, the logistics, I guess you'd call it, I had made a new song called The Old Man Down the Road. It was on my album, it was my comeback on Centerfield, and I had finally gotten away from Fantasy Records, which is where Creedence was, and Saul Zant, who owned it. So, you know, when you finally escape and get success over somewhere else, the former people s- tend to be jealous, I guess. And, uh, so he was suing me. What had happened, though, I found out in the trial, the bass player from Creedence, uh, was another one of those people, I guess, that couldn't stand that I'd now had success in a later life. Um, he went down to Fantasy and saw Mr. Saul Zant and said, "John is ripping off Creedence. You should sue himThe irony in, in all of that is that I had taught Stu every single note that he ever played [laughs] in Creedence. It was not his own crea- as we talk, you'll, you'll see, um, I was the guy inventing the arrangements, and so to take possession of Creedence was pretty ironic and pretty over the top. Anyway, he talks Saul into suing me, and that, Saul had unlimited funds, and so it, you know, went to a trial. I pre- prevailed at trial, and [sighs] got that over with.

Joe Rogan 6:50 But they torture you during the process because it takes years, and it cost-

John Fogerty 6:54 Yeah, you're doing depositions and-

Joe Rogan 6:55 ... an enormous amount of money to fight yourself.

John Fogerty 6:56 Yeah, all that stuff.

Joe Rogan 6:58 That is so crazy that they can sue you for sounding like you.

John Fogerty 7:03 Well, it's a blessing to the world, I think, that I prevailed. I mean, um, you know, what we're really talking about is when y- you come into the consciousness of the world, I guess, and you have a certain style, if you're lucky. And so you start creating whatever your art is. You're an actor, or you're a painter or, in my case, a musician, and people start liking the style. Well, how unfair would it be that at some point somebody takes ownership of your and s- style and now says, "You have to go back and invent some other style. Be some other person." You know? It's just, that would be really difficult. Imagine Dylan or Springsteen or all the other people that have their own style having to, you know, reinvent and change to something else.

Joe Rogan 7:53 Well, it's just insane to even ask an artist to do that. It's insane because look, so many artists sound like ar- other artists anyway, and no one has a problem with that as long as they're not ripping off the notes and the lyrics. There's a lot of people that sound like people. But the idea that you could get sued for sounding like you with new music and new lyrics is, that's one of the most insane things I've ever heard of. I can't believe that didn't get thrown out immediately.

John Fogerty 8:21 Immediately, right. Um, well, that shows the, the, I guess, the ego and the possessiveness that people wanna have. Um, you know, I had written a new song, and he didn't want me to... He, he wanted to own the new st- he wanted to own me, basically.

Joe Rogan 8:39 Mm-hmm.

John Fogerty 8:39 That was the idea. "Well, you can never do anything unless you do it for me," you know? Um, so I was... But not just for myself, for everyone, for all artists. It was kind of a major ruling, and [laughs] thank God it went that way.

Joe Rogan 8:57 Well, thank God it also was public, like with that song and the lawsuit around the song, have, you having to change the name of the song. 'Cause back then, at least at the time, like w- this was probably what, the '80s?

John Fogerty 9:09 Yep.

Joe Rogan 9:10 Most people had no idea how evil the music business can be.

John Fogerty 9:15 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 9:16 Unless they were told, they had no idea what... They, they bought the albums, they loved the musicians, and they just liked the music. They didn't know what was going on behind the scenes. They didn't know how these people own your catalog, they own the music, they own the publishing. They try to just get as much money out of you as humanly possible-

John Fogerty 9:36 Right

Joe Rogan 9:36 ... own your name, own your likeness. And m- most, uh, fans had no idea.

John Fogerty 9:42 And that's probably the way it really should be. When I was young, I just cared about Elvis and his guitar player, you know? I didn't wanna know all... I didn't even know there was stuff behind it-

Joe Rogan 9:52 The Colonel

John Fogerty 9:53 ... to know.

Joe Rogan 9:53 Yeah.

John Fogerty 9:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:54 Yeah.

John Fogerty 9:55 Oh, my God. Right, I picked a good one there, didn't I?

Joe Rogan 9:58 Yeah, it was a really good one.

John Fogerty 9:58 I mean, the Colonel was evil. That's just too bad.

Joe Rogan 10:00 Another similar situation, like there's a, a lot of these great artists get... Like Prince, he got wrapped up to the point where he had to change his name to a symbol 'cause he didn't own his name anymore. Prince.

John Fogerty 10:13 Yeah, I remember going, "Well, if he doesn't wanna use it, you know, I'll, I'll take it." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 10:18 [laughs] Yeah, it's just the, the business itsel- I mean, you have these creative artists that make this music that everybody loves, and then you have these hyenas that work behind the scenes that are the ones that are collecting the majority of the money from it, and they're not making any music. And to the average fan like myself, like that's abhorrent. That's disgusting. Like, you, you see that, it just, it just drives you nuts.

John Fogerty 10:44 Well, also, um, you know, the, the cre- creative people are special. And I mean, you know, look around. There's way more of other types of people than there are creative people, and to douse that, you know, to, or own that, which is what was gonna happen, is just a, an onerous thing. Um, I'm sh- [laughs] I used to be a lot more angry about all this stuff. I'm a lot older, s- I can't say wiser. It's more like, um, I came out on the good side of it, and s- I try not to worry about it too much. But, uh-

Joe Rogan 11:23 It's great that you came out on the good side of it.

John Fogerty 11:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:26 But it's also great for people to know, and it's really great for young artists to be aware as they're coming up, especially as they're beginning their journey, that this could happen to them.

John Fogerty 11:38 Yeah, and there's all kinds of, you know, um, bad people around just waiting for you to slip up and sign something that will give your rights away, that sort of thing. Um, I get such a joy out of music, you know? I mean, I just... I, it started that way when I was a little kid. I mean, didn't even know what I was doing. I was... Or what that was. I was hearing this sound, and you know, and I liked it, and I just kinda went with it. I didn't try to, uh, analyze it too much. And of course, later, with all the things, you know, theDifferent roads you g- you go through trying to [chuckles] get to s- some place. Um, a- a- happily, I still get that same joy. I mean, I j- I just, I'm just so glad. You know, I... A lot of this, of course, is from the care of my wife, Julie. Uh, if I hadn't have met her, I probably would be dead. [chuckles] Simple as that.

Joe Rogan 12:41 Really?

John Fogerty 12:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:42 Wow. Why do you think you'd be dead?

John Fogerty 12:46 Um, I didn't see any way out. You know, um, I was really abusing myself, alcohol mostly. I really felt bad inside. I mean, it, it's... When you get like that, uh, Joe, uh, you're not really operating on the same plane in the world that all the other people that you see are. You know, you walk into a market or something, look around, and probably most of the people are kinda normal, you know, whatever we call that. But when you're, when you're really hurting inside for whatever reason, I mean, in my case, something really unjust had been done to me. Um, but [chuckles] you know, however you get there, and then you start abusing yourself with, uh, drugs, alcohol, whatever, um, you just kinda... It's, it becomes a habit. You just stay there, right? And so you're not really enjoying the sunshine and the love that's around you and all the rest of it. You become kind of a, um, pathetic person. Sad, certainly. So that, you know, that was the deal. That when Julie met me, I was that guy. Um, there was sort of a, certainly a anger, I mean, but a, a bitterness too. Uh, almost like a self-fulfilling, um, prophecy where you look for something to go wrong, and then it goes [laughs] wrong. And you go, "See? I toldja." You know, I mean, it's, it's a terrible mental place to be, and I was there.

Joe Rogan 14:28 Do you think this was a loop that you got in because of the lawsuits?

John Fogerty 14:31 Oh, for su- yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:32 It... That, that it really just got you that hard.

John Fogerty 14:35 Well, there was, uh, there was more than one lawsuit. [chuckles] But the betrayal by, uh, the people in my band, you know. Uh, I just told you about a very evil man, right?

Joe Rogan 14:46 Yeah.

John Fogerty 14:46 And I'm the only guy from Creedence who's ever actually mentioned that he's an evil person, to the extent that quite publicly, my brother Tom, r- right during this same time, was saying that Saul was his best friend. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 15:03 Oh, Jesus.

John Fogerty 15:04 It was just really hard to, uh, deal with. And the other two guys in the bands were, in the band were kind of just more cowardly about it. They just never spoke up. Just kind of, "Give me the money," and, you know.

Joe Rogan 15:18 How the fuck was your brother saying that guy was your best friend while he was suing you?

John Fogerty 15:24 Um, he wanted... He was signed, re-signed, after the break of, breakup of Creedence. He kinda shopped around and didn't have, uh, much success finding a label. And so he went... Right about the time that this trial was going to happen, uh, he re-signed with Fantasy. I'm talking about the first trial.

Joe Rogan 15:48 Mm-hmm.

John Fogerty 15:49 Um-

Joe Rogan 15:49 Which was the first trial?

John Fogerty 15:50 The first trial was about, uh, basically the band had lost its life savings. All of us in Creedence, um, the record company had gotten us into this offshore tax plan. And I'm saying this with a smile because nowadays it just sounds so... You know, if some guy comes walking up to you and got a trench coat on, on a corner in New York City, "Hey, buddy," you know, you-

Joe Rogan 16:20 [chuckles]

John Fogerty 16:20 ... probably gonna avoid that guy. But the record company was in this tax thing. And for all we knew, we were gonna be paying 90% income tax, right? I mean, the tax laws are pretty s- pretty stringent and pretty high. Um, and so they offered us, or basically kinda ushered us into this plan, a ta- offshore tax plan, and it would allow us to pay a lot less taxes, probably somewhere between 10 and 20%, something like that. Uh, so it was a huge financial savings for us. Uh, I can tell you that the name of this particular thing was a bank in the Bahamas called Castle Bank. And we had it checked out, I mean, the, uh, the people on our side in the band had it checked out by our people, our own accountant. Um, uh, the bass player's father was a, an entertainment lawyer and had a big firm. They, a- among other people, represented the Oakland Raiders, so we thought they were pretty solid. And they checked it all out and said that it was okay, it was legit, so we did it. But time went on, and it, uh, seemed to be [laughs] not legit to the point that somewhere in the '70s, psht, the bank disappeared and all our money in it disappeared. So we sued.

Joe Rogan 18:05 Oh, Jesus.

John Fogerty 18:07 Yep.

Joe Rogan 18:08 So here it is. The bank was being used by the CIA to funnel money for covert military operations, including those at Andros Island, a staging area for anti-Castro activities. So you-- They were stealing your money-How?

John Fogerty 18:24 I just found that. I don't know. I just typed it in and went to the Wikipedia, and I was like, "Oh-"

Joe Rogan 18:28 That's-

John Fogerty 18:29 "... interesting."

Joe Rogan 18:30 ... so insane.

John Fogerty 18:31 See, I didn't know any of that. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 18:32 You didn't know until now?

John Fogerty 18:34 Oh, I knew that now, or I suspect... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:38 Did you know that up until now, or did you just find it out just now?

John Fogerty 18:42 Um, you could tell me a lot of things right now and I'd say, "Oh, yeah, I guess assumed all that stuff was kinda happening." But I didn't know it at the time in the early '70s when we, or late '60s, when we got into this thing. It was actually '76.

Joe Rogan 18:58 Do you know how anti-American that is? The CIA stole from Creedence Clearwater Revival.

John Fogerty 19:04 [laughs] Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:05 You know how fucking crazy that is? That is so wild.

John Fogerty 19:10 Dude. No, I didn't know that part. The, um-

Joe Rogan 19:12 [laughs]

John Fogerty 19:13 The funny thing, the f- the funny thing is, um, I had d- decided to get out of that plan, right? And I'd gone down to see my own people, my accountant, my attorney, uh, in Oakland, and told them, "I just want out of this thing. I don't like the idea that you gotta ca- you know, whenever I want some money, like an allowance, you gotta call up some bank account somewhere o- over there," and it takes, uh, uh, you know, some time, some few days before I actually receive my money. And it was starting to, to smell.

Joe Rogan 19:51 Mm.

John Fogerty 19:51 It was starting to s- and th- now, we're talking 1975, '76. Um, and so I actually had the meeting and I said, "I, I wanna be out of this plan. I don't wanna..." Oh, I said, I m- one of the things I said to the meeting of professionals, "Look, take a shoebox, put all the money I've ever earned into the shoebox, and now hand me the shoebox and so I can see how much money have I earned." 'Cause I didn't know. It was just going straight into this fund, right? Into this Castle Bank. But they couldn't tell me. So I leave, I get down to the, uh, parking lot in the basement of this tall building in Oakland, and I'm with my, uh, the guy that runs my office, and I say, " [exhales] We're gonna have to have another meeting," because even though I told them I wanna get out of the plan, I didn't stand up, like, on the table and go, "I'm ordering you and you and you, get me out of the plan." I realized they could weasel some more time-

Joe Rogan 21:00 Right

John Fogerty 21:00 ... until I actually pointed. So the next week, I showed up and did that. "I'm ordering you. Get me out," okay, out of the plan, right? Um, pretty quickly after that, a, a, a week or two, we hear that the bank has closed. There's a telegram that apparently was sent on Valentine's Day, and the bank president has died.

Joe Rogan 21:33 [laughs]

John Fogerty 21:34 He died in a sauna.

Joe Rogan 21:37 Whoa.

John Fogerty 21:39 I've seen that movie.

Joe Rogan 21:40 [laughs]

John Fogerty 21:40 You know, where, uh, Abbott and Costello, they're in the, and the mob comes in and they're in those, uh, heat things that are-

Joe Rogan 21:47 Uh-huh

John Fogerty 21:47 ... up to here.

Joe Rogan 21:47 Yeah.

John Fogerty 21:47 And the guy sticks the broom in the, in the doors so you can't get out and [laughs] you know.

Joe Rogan 21:52 Yeah.

John Fogerty 21:53 I mean-

Joe Rogan 21:53 Uh

John Fogerty 21:53 ... except that this was serious, and there will be no more withdrawals until, until this thing is understood.

Joe Rogan 22:03 Resolved. Right.

John Fogerty 22:03 Right? You don't, a bank president dies, you don't close the Bank of America.

Joe Rogan 22:07 Right.

John Fogerty 22:07 You still can go get your money. And so s- pretty quick after that, it all just disappeared in a puff of smoke. So-

Joe Rogan 22:15 They just stole the money.

John Fogerty 22:16 Gone. Yep.

Joe Rogan 22:17 And it was the fucking CIA. That is crazy.

John Fogerty 22:21 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 22:22 That is so crazy. How much money was involved with all the different people that lost their money? Like, how much money was this bank holding? Do you know?

John Fogerty 22:30 Oh. Well, there were other names that I never saw b- in those days. Uh, a lot of sort of mob-y kind of sounding names.

Joe Rogan 22:40 Yeah.

John Fogerty 22:41 Um, I will tell you, after the thing closed, and I, we got the telegram that the pres- I started, I literally started checking under my cars looking for wires and what, you know, something funny. I did that for about three months.

Joe Rogan 22:58 Whoa.

John Fogerty 22:59 I finally just... Well, I was scared.

Joe Rogan 23:01 Yeah, I would be too.

John Fogerty 23:01 Because I was the guy who said, "I wanna get out of this thing," and suddenly it goes kaboom and the president dies.

Joe Rogan 23:08 Right.

John Fogerty 23:08 Right? And I just figured that I was some kinda whistleblower to them or something, and you know, I'm, I'm in their way. Uh-

Joe Rogan 23:17 Wow

John Fogerty 23:17 ... I may have been.

Joe Rogan 23:18 I guarantee you're the reason why it happened.

John Fogerty 23:21 I don't think... No, I don't believe that's true.

Joe Rogan 23:23 Well, no, I mean, you're, you probably caused the whole thing to close down. I mean, it's not a coincidence that it closed down right after you asked for your money back.

John Fogerty 23:30 Yeah, I, I don't know. I think-

Joe Rogan 23:32 You're a big public name and a big voice.

John Fogerty 23:35 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 23:35 You get out, you take your money out.

John Fogerty 23:36 I will say, after that point in time, I really never wanted to talk too loudly about stuff anymore. Oh, my goodne-

Joe Rogan 23:44 Whoa

John Fogerty 23:44 ... oh, my goodness. Um, so there eventually was our lawsuit. Um, well, actually it was my lawsuit. I got with a lawy- a tall building, I call it-

Joe Rogan 23:57 [laughs]

John Fogerty 23:57 ... and proceeded to start proceedings against this fantasy, uh, our own attorneys and experts, uh, the people that designed this plan, all the rest, right? But I was the only one in the band that did that. The, the rest of the guys kinda just went along and weren't ma- making any waves. And I, you know, I was pretty adamant. Um, I'm telling you this because at some point laterAnd more than a year had passed, maybe a, maybe a year and a half. Uh, my pla- my lawsuit had been rolling along a while and then the other guys asked to join my lawsuit because the statute of limitations had run out on them being able to sue anyone, 'cause they-

Joe Rogan 24:51 Oh

John Fogerty 24:51 ... they literally tried to stay in the plan. I was [laughs] I was, I was willing to take the penalty, whatever it was, for being the dumbass that let himself get into some financial thing like this, right? I felt like, I used to say, I felt like Joe Lewis. I thought I was gonna need an act of Congress to forgive the debt. Uh, uh, these experts in the m- meeting that I talked about, who were trying to dissuade me from making a noise and trying to get out of the plan, told me eventually, "John, if you receive all the money at once, you will pay more than 110% in taxes-"

Joe Rogan 25:35 What?

John Fogerty 25:35 "... of what you have earned." In other words-

Joe Rogan 25:38 You would lose all the money

John Fogerty 25:38 ... I was gonna go in the hole.

Joe Rogan 25:39 Yeah.

John Fogerty 25:40 Yeah, for receiving it all at once, right?

Joe Rogan 25:42 That sounds insane.

John Fogerty 25:43 That's why I felt like Joe Lewis. [laughs] Right?

Joe Rogan 25:45 That's the, the most insane thing I've ever heard. A hun-

John Fogerty 25:47 Well, they were trying to in, trying to intimidate me.

Joe Rogan 25:49 Of course.

John Fogerty 25:50 Sure.

Joe Rogan 25:50 Yeah.

John Fogerty 25:51 Um-

Joe Rogan 25:52 How much money are we talking about? How much money did they steal from you?

John Fogerty 25:54 When it finally was over-

Joe Rogan 25:56 Yeah

John Fogerty 25:56 ... the headline in the San Francisco Chronicle, I mean, you're gonna laugh at this, "Rock band victorious, wins 8.1 million." That was our entire take for everybody in the band. Each guy had a little bit different amount, but, you know, those numbers sound, I mean... I don't know. Uh, Dion once made a joke at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame about Bruce, and [laughs] he made, Dion says, "Well, I sold 40 million," meaning, you know, you, you sue me. "Well, Bruce has that on him." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 26:34 [laughs]

John Fogerty 26:36 It was, it was pretty funny. Yeah, I mean, 8 million i- was, that was it. That was our take from all the sales of Creedence at the time.

Joe Rogan 26:44 So w- uh, was that the amount of money that was in the bank that they stole from you?

John Fogerty 26:49 That was what we got returned to us.

Joe Rogan 26:51 So you did get the money back?

John Fogerty 26:53 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 26:54 Oh, okay. Well, I figured they would just vanish.

John Fogerty 26:58 Um, the, the money didn't come back from Saul Zaentz or Capital or Castle Bank or any of those people. What had happened was Fantasy was let out of the lawsuit by the local judge in the Bay Area. I don't know why, 'cause they're the ones that got us into the plan. But anyway, they were let out of the whole thing. So who was left was this guy named Bert Kantor in Chicago, who designed the plan, and our own, our own accountant and lawyers. And so what most of them did was settle for pennies on the dollar. You know, we said that you owe us, um, a million dollars or whatever, and they settled for, like, $10,000. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 27:48 Really?

John Fogerty 27:49 Right? Rather than go to trial. But our own accountant's legal team said, "Ah, we got these guys. They can never win this." So I mean, ironically, they wanted to go to trial and put the poor accountant, you know, who was an old guy, uh, th- through a whole trial, and Creedence got, we, we retained the money we had lost in that plan, the 8 million I just mentioned, uh, from the law firm, uh, or the insurance firm. It was his insurance company's lawyers-

Joe Rogan 28:25 Mm-hmm

John Fogerty 28:25 ... that were representing him, and they had to pay. Nobody else had to pay.

Joe Rogan 28:31 Interesting.

John Fogerty 28:31 And then CIA or whoever you're talking about-

Joe Rogan 28:34 Yeah

John Fogerty 28:34 ... got away with it.

Joe Rogan 28:35 Of course they did.

John Fogerty 28:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:36 They know how to do that. It's kinda crazy too that it's only $8 million when you think about how much money you probably made the record companies.

John Fogerty 28:43 Yep. Well, there was 100 million records plus, so.

Joe Rogan 28:47 Right. Do the math. How much was an album back then?

John Fogerty 28:50 Four bucks.

Joe Rogan 28:51 Yeah. So 400 million plus operating expenses, costs, all that stuff. Seem, you know. You guys got a small percentage. But that's how it works, though. That's why the business is so dirty. That's what's so... You know, the idea is that they help you and they bring you up, but the reality is they sell art, and if they don't have artists, they have nothing. The artists are what fund their very existence, and they make the majority of the money. It's, it's pretty dark when you really think about it.

John Fogerty 29:22 Um, yeah, and Joe, I gotta tell you, um, I love making music and I don't do it for the money. I mean, I know that sounds a little naive, but it just, the happiness in my heart from doing this is from the music-

Joe Rogan 29:39 I believe you

John Fogerty 29:39 ... you know, and from the joy.

Joe Rogan 29:40 I believe you because I-

John Fogerty 29:41 The, the only thing is when you, you ... I mean, I'll say, I'm not, like, well, maybe I'm an idiot, but probably not about this. When you find out that there was money, but somebody else got it, then that kind of gets your attention.

Joe Rogan 29:54 Right.

John Fogerty 29:54 You know? But, um, the, for me at least, it was, i- it wasn't even about being famous, [laughs] literally, if you could believe that. It was the joy of, of understanding, you know, what the, the music from other people that you loved, and as you grew up from a, you know, that little first inspiration, you began to kinda understand what it was you liked about what they did, and at some point then started to try and do it yourself. But that was a, that was a long, long time after the initial joy of just enjoying what they did.

Joe Rogan 30:35 Yeah, it's, it's kind of sad that money always does kind of distort things, but if you were only interested in money and only interested in fame, or if that was your primary concern, there's no way the music would be that good. It's like that, that has to come from a real place. It's a real place-

John Fogerty 30:52 Hopefully

Joe Rogan 30:52 ... of creativity and enjoyment. 100%.

John Fogerty 30:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:56 100%, you know?

John Fogerty 30:59 Well, for me it did. I just-- it, it-- and also the prospect of creating something new tomorrow, you know? And, and the f- what's the word? You, you get certain feelings... Well, we all do, but, um, I've learned to-- how can I say it? Sort of it's like being in a big swimming pool or something, you know? It's all, it just surrounds you. Let it, letting yourself enjoy that feeling and then try to figure out a way to put that into the music, you know, express it in other words.

Joe Rogan 31:34 Yeah. Yeah. Well, you did it, man. It's just, it's, it's a long story with all these different artists that have had to deal with all these horrific managers and b- I was reading this article about, um, Jimi Hendrix's manager. Uh, so one of his bodyguards, uh, wrote a book where he's blaming Hendrix's manager for his death, and he was essentially saying that Hendrix was murdered, and Hendrix was about to leave his manager, and that's why he killed him. And I don't know if you know the story about Hendrix, but his girlfriend fell from a roof or jumped off a roof shortly after Hendrix died, and apparently they were trying to get rid of her as well because they knew that she knew the whole deal behind it.

John Fogerty 32:16 Was this the one with kind of a funny foreign name?

Joe Rogan 32:20 Yes. Yes.

John Fogerty 32:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:22 Yeah. They-- so many of these guys-

John Fogerty 32:23 I read, I've read a couple of Jimi biographies, but you know, it's... Yeah. Um-

Joe Rogan 32:29 So many of these guys had mobbed up managers.

John Fogerty 32:32 Yeah. I do know that there was some manager of his that... I mean, Jimi owned his masters. That was remarkable.

Joe Rogan 32:40 Mm.

John Fogerty 32:40 That's why, that's why his family has the masters. His estate, you know, who- they're the ones that decide, 'cause every so often a new Jimi album would come out, that sort of thing.

Joe Rogan 32:51 Mm-hmm.

John Fogerty 32:51 Um, I didn't know any of this way back then. I just wondered, you know, who was driving the bus. So I mean, that part was, was pretty good. Uh, he, he had to talk to somebody at Reprise Records, and some of those people were Reprise, uh, Warner Brothers. In other words, about the time I was at Warner Brothers, it must've been a couple of them, [laughs] you know, that decided that way back in the '60s. Um, I guess I was a little envious 'cause I sure didn't own my masters, that's for sure.

Joe Rogan 33:23 How many people owned their own masters back then?

John Fogerty 33:26 Um, nobody. No one.

Joe Rogan 33:27 That's crazy. How do you think he got that deal?

John Fogerty 33:30 That I don't know. I don't know how it, how it came about that he was able to have that much influence. I mean, that's the part... I, I did, I did get the inference from the, at least one of the books I read about Jimi, that, um, h- he had... They didn't try too hard to save him. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 33:53 Yeah.

John Fogerty 33:54 You know? Jimi was, I guess, was just really effed up for a couple of weeks there, and n- the, no one tried... You know, they were almost-- I mean, I almost got the sense that somebody took a bottle of wine and just poured it in him, you know?

Joe Rogan 34:09 Yeah. That's what I had heard.

John Fogerty 34:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:11 That's, that was the, what the bodyguard was inferring, that they poured pills and alcohol down his mouth.

John Fogerty 34:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:17 Yeah.

John Fogerty 34:17 Terrible. Well, [laughs] I hope to never be in s- uh, such a state that I can't protest something like that. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 34:24 Right. Well, yeah. Yeah. It's dark. Because, uh, apparently he was ready to leave. He wanted to leave his manager.

John Fogerty 34:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:33 And obviously Jimi was a gigantic star.

John Fogerty 34:36 Huge.

Joe Rogan 34:37 And that guy saw all the money to hold it.

John Fogerty 34:38 Well, he still is.

Joe Rogan 34:39 Sh- still is to this day. Yeah.

John Fogerty 34:40 Every single guitar survey that ever comes out, you know, you, it cha- all the other numbers after two-

Joe Rogan 34:48 Right

John Fogerty 34:49 ... keep changing with fashion and all that, but it's always number one is Jimi Hendrix.

Joe Rogan 34:53 Always.

John Fogerty 34:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:54 Yeah. Kind of extraordinary when you think about it. The guy died at 27 years old.

John Fogerty 34:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:59 You know? And was already just from another planet. Like, you'd listen to his, like, you listen to Voodoo Child (Slight Return) .

John Fogerty 35:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:07 You listen to that song and you're like, "Is this guy from Earth?" Like, this was so different than any other guitar playing that had ever taken place before him. He was a complete revolutionary, like, just a completely new creative artist.

John Fogerty 35:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 35:21 You know? And one of my favorite musicians, absolutely, of all time. That's why I named the podcast The Joe Rogan Experience.

John Fogerty 35:28 I wondered about that.

Joe Rogan 35:29 Yeah.

John Fogerty 35:29 Well, there it is.

Joe Rogan 35:30 That's it. Stole it from Jimi.

John Fogerty 35:31 How good for you.

Joe Rogan 35:32 Yeah.

John Fogerty 35:32 Yep. Yep. I should have named it The John Fogerty Experience.

Joe Rogan 35:38 [laughs] Instead of Creedence?

John Fogerty 35:40 Yeah. Well, I did create that name. Um-

Joe Rogan 35:44 What was the crazy name that the record company called your, one of your first bands? They-

John Fogerty 35:51 Well, it was the same people.

Joe Rogan 35:52 Same people?

John Fogerty 35:53 Yeah. Same, I mean, the same individual musicians. Um, in high school, or junior high actually, I started a band and called it The Blue Velvets. Not all that cre- you know, earth-shaking, but kind of a cool vibe. Um, and we were really The Blue Velvets by... You know, the, I mean, this, this was l- really a trio, but my brother was older. He was in another orbit. Uh, so we kind of went through high school m- seeing each other every once in a while. It wasn't like we were all tromping around playing gig after gig. It was more like, you know, every few months there might be a sock hop or something like that. Um, and then-After high school-- and Tom, Tom would come and sing. He was my older brother. He'd come and sing once in a while with us. We made a couple of recordings during that time with real record companies. But it was all, it was kind of just haphazard. Um, and finally around the age of 19, I went over and knocked on Fantasy Records' door. They had done this special about Vince Guaraldi, and they were in the Bay Area, so I, you know, went over there and introduced myself. Anyway, some, you know, one thing led to another. Finally, we're recording. Uh, and at that time, I think we made a record with only three of us, me and Tom and Doug, the drummer, and I pl- I overdubbed a bass part. And this is early, or this was in 1964. Uh, when the, they finally pressed the single, one side was called "Little Girl." It's kind of a four-chord doo-wop song. The other side was sort of a English, uh, or a British Invasion answer kind of thing, mod music. It was called "Don't Tell Me No Lies." Anyway, we excitedly go over to San Francisco to their warehouse and open up the package, and it says, "The Golliwogs."

Joe Rogan 38:04 [laughs]

John Fogerty 38:04 And we look at each other and go, "What the hell? No, no, no." I think we had chosen our name to be The Visions. It was just something w- at the last minute 'cause w- w- we weren't really The Blue Velvets anymore, but that was it. We thought it was gonna say Visions. Um, but the record company had decided they wanted to get in on the British Invasion mod whatever and named us The Golliwogs. It sounds like polliwog.

Joe Rogan 38:34 Yeah.

John Fogerty 38:35 They said, well, a golliwog, you see, is this doll that, uh, when the British soldiers were in India, there would, the kids would have this little doll called a golliwog. And so that's all we knew about it. Um, as time went o- I mean, years and years later, af- long after I'd been, we'd renamed the band, or I'd renamed the band Creedence, found out that golliwog was a, this was a very racial thing. This was the British soldiers calling the f- people-

Joe Rogan 39:08 Whoa

John Fogerty 39:09 ... wogs or golliwogs, yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:10 That's a golliwog?

John Fogerty 39:11 Yeah, a sambo, right?

Joe Rogan 39:13 Wow.

John Fogerty 39:13 Same sort of... Yep.

Joe Rogan 39:16 And they didn't know this either, obviously.

John Fogerty 39:17 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 39:17 There was no Wikipedia back then.

John Fogerty 39:19 I don't know, no. I don't know. I didn't know that.

Joe Rogan 39:22 That's crazy that they could just change your, the name of your band without you having any knowledge of it at all. You open up the record, and it's right there.

John Fogerty 39:30 Yep, and they kind of insisted. You know, it's that same thing that, "Well, we're gonna own the publishing to your song." "No, no, I should own it." "Well, then we're not gonna make any records." "Oh, okay." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 39:43 You're 19.

John Fogerty 39:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:44 Yeah. Yeah, that's how they get you. You don't know any-

John Fogerty 39:47 Well, and you kind of want to make a record.

Joe Rogan 39:49 Yeah, you want to make a record. It's right there. You, you taste it. "Oh my God, I'm gonna be signed to a record label. I'm gonna be a rock star." And then they come to you with a shady contract, and that's their modus operandi. It's what, what they do with everybody.

John Fogerty 40:04 And for... I know they call it business. Um-

Joe Rogan 40:10 Funny term.

John Fogerty 40:11 Yeah. Um, most of those people, I mean, it's like lottery to them. It's like gambling. Um, they don't have a clue what creativity is. And at that age, the young ar- I mean, I, I guess I'm looking at you and saying, "If I only..." [laughs] No, what's that line? "If I didn't know now what I didn't know then." Uh-

Joe Rogan 40:33 Yeah

John Fogerty 40:33 ... you're a young artist. You don't even know what you got.

Joe Rogan 40:39 Right.

John Fogerty 40:40 Right? You know you have feelings about music and, uh, but you don't... You know, you're less than a rookie.

Joe Rogan 40:48 Right.

John Fogerty 40:48 You know? You, maybe you were good in junior high, but that doesn't mean you're Willie Mays.

Joe Rogan 40:53 Right.

John Fogerty 40:53 You know? [laughs] So that's sort of how that works, and they sign you up before any of that self-realization happens, and then you're messed.

Joe Rogan 41:05 Yeah. A- again, that's what happened to Prince. That's what happened to Skinner. That's what happened to l- most bands. I mean, they're very clever in how they do it.

John Fogerty 41:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:14 They sign a bunch of people that are emerging, and some of them are gonna hit.

John Fogerty 41:18 Yep.

Joe Rogan 41:19 And they bankroll it, and then they make the majority of the money when those people hit.

John Fogerty 41:24 Well, in our case, Creedence was the only thing that ever happened. Fantasy became a very wealthy record company. Uh, Saul origi- or eventually went into making movies, so he, that money that I had made for him at the record company, you know, turned into One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest-

Joe Rogan 41:48 Oh, wow

John Fogerty 41:49 ... and some other, uh... Uh, Saul even had, and in those d- times, had bought the movie rights for Lord of the Rings. So, you know, his, he, his ticket got punched way up high.

Joe Rogan 42:08 It's crazy-

John Fogerty 42:08 And we never got a dime, of course, of any of that.

Joe Rogan 42:11 It's crazy how bad people can get ahead like that.

John Fogerty 42:14 Well, that, see, that's... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:16 That's what's disturbing.

John Fogerty 42:16 It's a different... That's why I had a little hesitation when you were talking about that you thought the music came from a, or creativity came from a joyful, good place. But boy, you can sure look in different parts of entertainment and, uh, or business in general [laughs] -

Joe Rogan 42:36 Yeah

John Fogerty 42:36 ... and see some really bad people have made a lot of money.

Joe Rogan 42:40 Well, it takes the good people to create things, though. The creative people make the things, and it, there's always just gonna be people taking advantage of people being naive about business.

John Fogerty 42:51 I choose to believe that at least it works for me. I choose to believe that you've got to have a good heart. You've got to try to use the golden rule, basically. You know, don't do something bad to him that you wouldn't want to have done to you.

Joe Rogan 43:12 Right.

John Fogerty 43:12 So the do unto others as you would have them do to you. Yes. Um, I, I believe in God, and I believe God is watching me all the time, you know, all of us. So that that part helps me to feel like there's a, a reason, you know, to try and be a good person. Um, the reason being you're in God's grace if you do those things, if you try to live a good life-

Joe Rogan 43:46 Right

John Fogerty 43:46 ... honest, and I guess we call it transparent nowadays.

Joe Rogan 43:49 Yeah.

John Fogerty 43:50 Um, you know, and don't get me wrong, I'm not running around the world with a, thumping a Bible or something. I just think it's common sense about how ultimately you want to exist in the universe, right?

Joe Rogan 44:09 Yeah.

John Fogerty 44:10 Um, so I, you know, that, that's how I operate. And so when I-- certainly now at my age, when I see other people really getting away with stuff, I just... It, it isn't like I, "Gee, that's not fair. I should get the..." I don't see it that way now. I just look at that poor sap who's being so evil and go, [tsking] "You know, he's gonna get his comeuppance someday." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 44:34 Well, it's a horrible existence-

John Fogerty 44:36 Yeah

Joe Rogan 44:36 ... because nobody loves you when you're like that. If you're, if you're doing that and fucking people over, all your relationships are adversarial. It's a bad way to exist. You're on a very bad frequency the way you-

John Fogerty 44:47 Yeah

Joe Rogan 44:47 ... you exist with the people in your circle. This is-

John Fogerty 44:50 I think that's true.

Joe Rogan 44:51 Yeah.

John Fogerty 44:51 I believe that.

Joe Rogan 44:52 There, there's a lot of people that choose that life just for financial benefit. They choose to just fuck people over and be in that bad frequency all the time. But that's not a good life, and I agree with you. I think, uh, if you live your life like God exists, it, you'll, you'll have a much better life. And the golden rule is just... It, it's provable. Like, if you're a nice person and you treat people well and y- it spreads a lot of good energy around you and positive momentum with all these other people, it, it's the butterfly effect. It carries on to other people that they encounter, too. They're inspired by how kind and friendly and generous you are, and it, it's good for everybody. It's good for you. It's good for the people that you're generous and friendly to. It's good for the other people that they encounter because they're inspired by it. It's just good for everyone. That's how people should exist.

John Fogerty 45:46 Yeah, I, I literally, I believe everything you have just said and literally have sometimes asked God for a... You know, I n- I never sat around and asked for money or a hit record or s- I, I always thought that's kind of poor. That's bad, [laughs] you know?

Joe Rogan 46:05 Yeah.

John Fogerty 46:05 I mean, that's selfish or greedy or something. But I would ask for clarity or, you know, I would ask God to help me, uh, figure something out. And amazingly, there would be v- through a relation, you know, somebody I was dealing with, there would be something... It was like karma, good karma coming back.

Joe Rogan 46:31 Yeah.

John Fogerty 46:31 And I could see the, see the out... You know, to me, it was a result of my prayer or my openness of wanting to help get a situation resolved. Um, so for me, it, yeah, I've, I've... To me, there's evidence [laughs] that it all works that way.

Joe Rogan 46:50 Did you always have a belief in God?

John Fogerty 46:53 Yeah. I think there was times, um... Yeah, be- because I was just brought up that way. Um, again, I don't believe my... I w- I was just, I was just taught in a kind of nice and simple way about God. It, it wasn't beat over my head or any... I was raised Catholic, so in some sense you can't avoid having it beat over your head, I suppose. And, and some of that I resisted. Um, but I went through the normal things. I did my first communion, my first confession. I did, uh, what do you call that when you're 12 years old? The confirmation.

Joe Rogan 47:33 Mm-hmm.

John Fogerty 47:34 Um, I chose the name for, for St. Jerome basically because there's a song by Bo D- Bo Diddley called "Bring It to Jerome."

Joe Rogan 47:44 [laughs]

John Fogerty 47:45 And, uh, Jerome was his, I think Jerome Green was his maraca player, and I really liked the vibe of that. Said, "I'm gonna be Jerome. That's my confirmation name."

Joe Rogan 47:54 [laughs]

John Fogerty 47:55 Um, yeah, it was, it was there in those ways. There was times I was... Boy, you've opened a can of worms here. Because I was so invested in being a Catholic, even though m- my parents tried to have me go to parochial school, Catholic school, um, I was in i- the first grade, and then, uh, I wanna say they kicked me out. And then I tried, she, my mom had me start again in ninth grade at St. Mary's High School, and they kicked me out again. Um, but it wasn't my fault.

Joe Rogan 48:33 [laughs]

John Fogerty 48:33 Anyway, the, the one that happened is, is, is funny. I mean, it's just... The one that happened in the first grade, uh, I had to take a bus to get there. I lived in El Sobrato, and the, it was School of the Madeleine in Berkeley, and I'm in the first grade. I'm six years old. So you had to go to the bus stop, get on a bus, get a transfer-So that then when a bus came to a certain stop over in Albany, you then got on a train, you transferred, in other words, got on a train, and that went another mile or so into Berkeley. And at a certain stop right behind the, the school, the School of the Madeleine Catholic School, you get off the train and go on down into school. Now, what happened, my mom was a te-- uh, my, my parents had split up, so it was only my mom in the house, and she's leaving early 'cause she's got a, a job as a teacher, and she's... So she's out of the house before me, and so it's up to me to get myself together and get to the bus stop on time. Many, many times I was late and missed it, so I had to get the next bus, so I'm late. So I'm rushing to school, but I get there after they've already... Th-they would march every morning to John Philip Sousa, and they'd [singing] you know, all that, and go on into school. And I, I get there, now I'm late. The, the schoolyard is empty. I literally have to climb over the fence 'cause they've locked the fence at boom, eight o'clock or whatever it was, and I have to scale the fence, run into class without going to the bathroom. This was my first grade experience. Sat down in my chair. Within an hour I really gotta pee, and Sister Damien would not answer me. "I gotta, I gotta go, I gotta..." And so she would... One day I peed in my seat. It happened again. It became a habit. "Sister Damien, John Fogerty has a puddle under his chair."

Joe Rogan 50:52 Oh, no.

John Fogerty 50:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:54 So you became the kid that pees.

John Fogerty 50:54 That was so traumatizing to me.

Joe Rogan 50:57 Yeah.

John Fogerty 50:57 But ask yourself, how is a six-year-old [laughs] getting on a bus all by himself, traveling three or four miles, then getting out of the bus, going over to where the train stat- thing is, getting on a train, going over there, and, I mean, God, I've certainly never let my six-year-olds do anything like that.

Joe Rogan 51:20 I know. It is kinda crazy how kids were just able to just leave the house and do anything back then.

John Fogerty 51:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:27 I think about that. When I was a little kid, I used to just leave my house.

John Fogerty 51:30 Yep.

Joe Rogan 51:31 Seven years old.

John Fogerty 51:32 Yep.

Joe Rogan 51:32 Just leave the house, wander around.

John Fogerty 51:33 As long as you were home for dinner time. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 51:34 Yeah. It's kind of crazy. I mean, it's kind of amazing we all lived-

John Fogerty 51:38 Yeah

Joe Rogan 51:38 ... if you stop and think about it, but to, to have to take a bus then a train and go to school when you're six years old, that's nuts. So, uh, I went to Catholic school, too, for first grade only, and, uh, that screwed me off of religion for a long time, 'cause I thought of God back when I was a little kid, before I went to Catholic school, as, you know, God is all-knowing, and God is love, and God created the universe, and God is... God's looking out for you.

John Fogerty 52:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:08 He's just got some rules you have to follow. Made sense to me.

John Fogerty 52:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:10 And then when I went to Catholic school, there was a lady, I, I don't remember anybody's name from back then, but I remember her. Sister Mary Josephine. She was so mean. She was just a mean lady. She did the whole thing, the whacking people with rulers.

John Fogerty 52:24 Yep.

Joe Rogan 52:24 Telling you you're gonna have to stay overnight and you're gonna have to sleep on a nail in the closet. Like, just evil. Like, wanted you to cry.

John Fogerty 52:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:32 And when I would cry she'd call me a crybaby. And I remember thinking after that like, "I don't wanna have nothing to do with religion ever again," right when I left first grade.

John Fogerty 52:42 Yep.

Joe Rogan 52:43 I hated it. And I was like, "Whatever God is, this is not God. Like, these people have nothing to do with God. This lady, there's no way this lady is the messenger of God. This lady's mean."

John Fogerty 52:53 That took a whole lifetime to figure out, to realize, well, this is just a man-made thing.

Joe Rogan 53:01 Yeah.

John Fogerty 53:01 You know, God's there.

Joe Rogan 53:02 Right.

John Fogerty 53:03 And some man-made thing over here, you know, they became Mormons, and some man-made thing over there, they became Muslims-

Joe Rogan 53:11 Right

John Fogerty 53:11 ... and, you know. And it's just all man-made. It isn't actually God.

Joe Rogan 53:15 Right.

John Fogerty 53:16 Right? And so you... Th- and m-man is fallible, of course. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 53:20 Yeah.

John Fogerty 53:21 He's not infinite and he's not infallible. And so all these things were th- that, but that took a lifetime. For me, I, I'm sure I was in my 40s still working on that, right? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 53:33 Yeah.

John Fogerty 53:34 That God's okay, John. You don't have to resist when somebody wants to make a prayer or so- You know, it's, it, it isn't God's fault that you peed at your desk when you were in the first grade. [laughs] Et cetera.

Joe Rogan 53:48 It's the mean nun.

John Fogerty 53:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:50 Yeah. I, uh, I have a similar perspective. I, I think, uh, I think all religious scriptures, they're trying to document a th- a real thing, espe- especially Christianity, which is the one I've paid the most attention to. I think they are trying to document a real thing. But the hand of man is clearly all over it. That's the problem. The problem with anything that's written down, and we know that just in, like, the religious canon, the books that were included in the Bible, human beings had a decision on what goes in and what, what doesn't go in.

John Fogerty 54:23 Good.

Joe Rogan 54:23 You know, there was rabbis that kept the Book of Enoch out of the Old Testament. There's a lot of this weird stuff to it that you go like, "Well, why do pe- why do people have any say? Why does a human have any say in w- what the word of God is? That sounds crazy." And when you read the scriptures, you're like, "Somebody wrote that down, and someone told that story for who knows how many years-

John Fogerty 54:46 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 54:47 ... before it was ever written down." But I think the origins of it, there's truth to it. It's just you have to get through all these many layers of confusion to try to decipher what, what God's original message was and, like, whatHow was it received? Who got it? How did it, how did it even get relayed? Like what was, what was the original event that led to this oral tradition that led to it being written down?

John Fogerty 55:15 I'm smiling because this sounds exactly like a young musician has come to see this m- more learned person and tell him about his experience, and the more learned person turns into the manager or the record [laughs] company-

Joe Rogan 55:32 [laughs]

John Fogerty 55:32 ... and he says, "I wanna own this."

Joe Rogan 55:35 Right.

John Fogerty 55:35 And, you know-

Joe Rogan 55:36 Right

John Fogerty 55:36 ... they take all that, the, all that good-

Joe Rogan 55:39 Mm-hmm

John Fogerty 55:39 ... intentions and faith-

Joe Rogan 55:41 Yes

John Fogerty 55:41 ... and somebody ends up owning it.

Joe Rogan 55:44 Certainly.

John Fogerty 55:44 And you end up paying a tithe, [laughs] you know-

Joe Rogan 55:47 Right

John Fogerty 55:47 ... into a plate. [laughs] And they make a lot of money.

Joe Rogan 55:50 That's certainly what you see in organized religion, especially when it gets to, like, these huge mega churches and preachers. Like, that's exactly what it is.

John Fogerty 55:57 Yep.

Joe Rogan 55:57 It's someone taking advantage of this good thing-

John Fogerty 56:00 Yeah

Joe Rogan 56:00 ... and profiting off of it immensely. Yeah. But the thing, I think the, the point of, like, if you live your life like God's real, it'll be a better life.

John Fogerty 56:10 I agree with that. I th-

Joe Rogan 56:11 Yeah

John Fogerty 56:11 ... but I think you also know. I think you can just f-

Joe Rogan 56:14 There's something there

John Fogerty 56:15 ... it's, it's sensible that you try to share, that you try not to be greedy.

Joe Rogan 56:21 Yes.

John Fogerty 56:22 You know, I don't mean you have to be a fool.

Joe Rogan 56:24 Right.

John Fogerty 56:24 I just mean that y- y- you don't have to be overtly always taking [laughs] way more than your share. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 56:30 Yeah. Just be kind. Be kind-

John Fogerty 56:32 Yeah

Joe Rogan 56:32 ... and be fair. Um, how old were you when you first started playing music?

John Fogerty 56:37 You mean as-

Joe Rogan 56:38 Yeah

John Fogerty 56:38 ... an instrument?

Joe Rogan 56:40 Just messing around. Like, how did you get into it?

John Fogerty 56:42 Right. Well, I was... Actually, I was given a snare drum. W- uh, I think I was about four years old. It was a really cheap paper one.

Joe Rogan 56:53 Was your family musicians?

John Fogerty 56:55 Uh, not really, but they were musical, both of them, my mom and dad. Um, one of my, one of my finest and favorite memories is, uh, there was... We lived in the Bay Area of, of, uh, uh, the East Bay from San Francisco. And my parents would go up to this place in Northern California near Winters, California. That's up, like, toward Sacramento. And there was this, uh, creek, this body of water called the Putah Creek. Eventually, they dammed that up and made Lake Berryessa. Uh, but anyway, back then it was just a, a running water and, uh, there was some people could camp there. There was, uh, at this one place they took me, um, reputedly was owned by a, a man named Cody, and he was a direct descendant of Buffalo Bill Cody.

Joe Rogan 57:54 Wow.

John Fogerty 57:54 I actually met him one day when I was about four, and he was probably coming to collect, uh, the payment for the cabin and the, you know, the little space. Anyway, um, and I, I may remember looking at him and going, "Wow." So I was told that story, and he was, he would've been about 75. He literally could've been a son of Buffalo Bill. He would've been born, at that point it was probably 1949, at the story I'm relating, and he c- you know, would've been born in 1875. I mean, it's mind-boggling to think that. Um, but the, the... my favorite memory thing, other, other than the fact that that whole place inspired my song, "Green River," that's, all the [laughs] little parts are in Green River. Um, but one of the things, my parents had this old Ford, old green Ford, and they'd be driving along at night up there, is what I re- I guess they were more happy or something there. And they... I remember sitting between them, you know, it was just a big couch, the front seat, and they were singing songs in the dark, and they were singing, like, By the Light of the Silvery Moon or Baby Face, uh, and harmonizing. O- o- one was taking the melody g- and the other was harmonizing.

Joe Rogan 59:15 Oh, wow.

John Fogerty 59:15 The reason I know is 'cause I'd sat there, and I'm probably three, four, five years old, right in there, and said, "What are you guys doing?" 'Cause I knew the melody, but it... "But I hear two notes. What, what are you doing?" And they explained they were harmonizing. And it was just the coolest thing, and it was so... such a happy time. I mean, I really... I felt, what's that, uh, bonded to that, I guess?

Joe Rogan 59:41 Mm-hmm.

John Fogerty 59:42 Like that I really like this, whatever it is. So, uh-

Joe Rogan 59:45 So that was the initial spark.

John Fogerty 59:47 Well, they began to notice that I w- I was musical. So at some point I know I, a- again, at my fourth birthday, there, somebody gave me a, or I had a little toy harmonica, and my dad, you know, those little plastic kind of things. My dad picked it up, and he played "Oh! Susanna" in the cowboy style. In other words, it was probably a C harmonica. He played in C, not like blues players do, bending notes. He played that thing you see in the cowboy movies when they're sitting around the campfire and went, [singing] yeah, that sort of thing. I was just shocked. I, I'd never seen my dad do anything like that. Wow. And then, uh, on top of that, my mom could play piano, what we now call stride piano. She would hit the, [singing] and then play a chord, like a, an octave of bass notes and then a chord above it, [singing] . They'll keep that going as, like, the drummer in the thing and then play melody and high notes up above. And it was, you know, she did, she would... One of my favorite ones was, um, "Harvest Moon," "Shine on Harvest Moon," which is a great song, and it just was magical to me. So that, that kinda opened the door to let me know that, oh-Why? We can do this in our own house. Um, so the piano was around, and then we also, I, I don't know whose it was, but we had an old Stella acoustic guitar. Stella is a name going back into the '30s, '20s, and this thing was built like a tank. Um, just, it was hard to play. The strings were, like, way high and all that. Eventually, my brother Bob told me at some point, "Yeah, we used to play baseball with that guitar. We'd hit ball-" [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:01:41 Yeah. That's how sturdy it was. But that was around so that I would every once in a while mess with it. Um, but somewhere literally in the seventh grade is where I started to really try and learn a chord and that sort of thing.

Joe Rogan 1:02:02 Is that when you thought, "I'm gonna be a musician"?

John Fogerty 1:02:09 I think that moment was a little bit earlier. It was, a- again, up at this place, Winters. Um, I- my dad had driven into the town from our little c- c- cabin, our little campsite, and I was with him, and he'd gone to this general store, and in the... The general store had everything. It had food and stuff, but it also had, uh, fishing tackle and, you know, various weird things. So I'm standing there sort of near the counter, and my dad's doing some kind of business. I'm just looking, and suddenly I hear music, and I'm, "What the heck is that?" Well, I didn't even know they had a jukebox in this place, right? And somebody had started the jukebox so that it's playing music that I really like. It's rock and roll, and I'm, you know, I'm about 10 years old. Man, that's good, and I don't know who it is. But it's just got a really bluesy sound, but it's, it's fast. It's rock and roll. And I run over, and I finally determine it's Elvis Presley. I go, "W- I never heard this." I knew of Elvis, of course, on TV. He had done, uh, Heartbreak Hotel. I'd, I had seen the, the Tommy Jimmy Dorsey show that he'd been on three times. He was on there, I think, five times. Anyway, um, and so, wow, Elvis did this? What is this? Well, it turned out it was the other side of his second big million seller, which was, "I Want You, I Need You, I Love You." This was a song called My Baby Left Me, and this was basically classic Sun Records vibe, even though he was now on RCA. It was that thing they did on Sun Records, that, just that kinda country wail with guitar that was more country than blues, and the guitar especially just na- I said, "What is that?" I'm watching, and this Scotty Moore, who I didn't know his name at the time, but he's just playing this otherworldly stuff, and that was... I looked at that, and I s- I mean, literally my head made... I don't know. I said this to myself. "I don't know what they're doing, but that's what I wanna do."

Joe Rogan 1:04:23 Wow.

John Fogerty 1:04:23 And I made up my mind right there in that three minutes of that song. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:04:27 That's amazing.

John Fogerty 1:04:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 Wow.

John Fogerty 1:04:29 Well, it was transformative. It still is. It's just a pretty unique slice of American music.

Joe Rogan 1:04:37 I don't think I'm aware of that song. I, I'm gonna listen to it after the podcast.

John Fogerty 1:04:41 You probably know his song, Elvis' song, That's All Right, Mama.

Joe Rogan 1:04:45 Sure.

John Fogerty 1:04:45 Right. Well, this is in that vein.

Joe Rogan 1:04:47 Ah.

John Fogerty 1:04:47 It's actually the same writer. Um, um, Arthur Crudup.

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 Interesting.

John Fogerty 1:04:53 Arthur Big Boy Crudup. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:56 So your family was musical, but you didn't know any musicians, so what did you think you were gonna do? Like, how did you think you were gonna eventually become a musician? Did you have a plan?

John Fogerty 1:05:05 [laughs] Um, at some point... You know what? At some point a little earlier than that, but right around that time, it was the era of doo-wop, right? This is the way, I mean, a, a kid can... You can just go anywhere in your mind, right? And I suppose the Corvette automobile, of course, had come out. So in a very young mind, but one of those cool, I guess we call them mashups, I was gonna have a group, but it was this all singing. I was gonna have a group, and it was gonna be called Johnny Corvette and the Corvettes.

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:05:59 Right? And there was four. I'm Johnny, and three other guys, and we're all in sparkle jackets, you know, the, the show biz-

Joe Rogan 1:06:10 Right

John Fogerty 1:06:11 ... right? And we're Black, all of us.

Joe Rogan 1:06:16 That was your idea?

John Fogerty 1:06:18 That's what I saw. I was referring to what I was seeing. To be Johnny Corvette and the Corvettes, that was one of the ingredients.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 How were you gonna be Black?

John Fogerty 1:06:30 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:06:31 I didn't have to worry about that. I mean, the, the funny thing is that's so similar here is, like, when I was little, I wanted to be a baseball player, right? But some kids dream of being in the NBA.

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 Mm-hmm.

John Fogerty 1:06:47 But you gotta be 9'11" to even...

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 Right. [laughs] Right.

John Fogerty 1:06:51 You know? I mean, so how's that gonna happen? I mean, you just said it in a really innocent way, but a kid just, "I'll eat spinach or something," you know?

Joe Rogan 1:07:00 You eat spinach, you become Black. [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:07:02 And, and tall.

Joe Rogan 1:07:03 And tall. [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:07:04 You know, I don't know. It, but it worked for me. I mean, literally, when I... You know, one of my dreams as a kid really was I wanted to... I love baseball. Still do.I wanted the, you know, "Okay, what do I gotta do?"

Joe Rogan 1:07:17 Right.

John Fogerty 1:07:17 And I'd start throwing a... I was throwing a ball against the side of the house. I'd made a big, like a target. You know, a bullseye and a... I don't know why I did it that way. And my mom caught me. I was throwing an actual hardball, and it was denting the clapboard, you know, the wood. It was... I was tearing the house down.

Joe Rogan 1:07:37 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:07:38 So she got me a tennis ball, and that was okay. Yeah, I was no good. You know, I wasn't... It was, I was... That dream was never gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 1:07:46 Is that what inspired Put Me In, Coach?

John Fogerty 1:07:48 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:07:49 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:07:50 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:50 What a great anthem.

John Fogerty 1:07:52 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 1:07:52 It's amazing.

John Fogerty 1:07:53 Thank you. Yeah. Well-

Joe Rogan 1:07:54 I mean, how many baseball games have played that song? My, my God.

John Fogerty 1:07:59 I mean, at least, you know, I mean, there's a lot of us semi-nerds, I guess, that, you know, wanted to play ball, wanted to be a jock, and just really, at some point, you know, the ones that really have it pass you by, [laughs] you know?

Joe Rogan 1:08:13 Right. Of course.

John Fogerty 1:08:14 And you just kinda... But in your mind, everybody got their scorecard and the, [laughs] you know, and they're following the game and all that, and that, that vicarious joy of watching Ohtani or Aaron Judge or whoever it is you love, uh, y- you get to have that in your heart anyway. What... I mean, I'm the luckiest guy in the universe. Okay, I didn't get to play, but I wrote a song, and my song's there all the time. [laughs] It's just, it's just the coolest feeling. The song, my s- That song's in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Joe Rogan 1:08:51 That's amazing.

John Fogerty 1:08:53 It is amazing. It's ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 1:08:54 That's so cool. [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:08:55 But it's just like, that happened to me, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:08:58 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:08:58 It's like, God, I could cry over that.

Joe Rogan 1:09:01 That's great.

John Fogerty 1:09:01 When they had sent a letter to me and they were gonna, you know, and put the music in the Hall, I just was, "God, who do I tell?" [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:09:10 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:09:10 "Geez." Yeah, it was so good.

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 That's amazing. That's amazing. So when we- when did you start writing your own songs?

John Fogerty 1:09:17 I was eight years old.

Joe Rogan 1:09:18 Wow. Do you remember your first song?

John Fogerty 1:09:21 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:09:21 What was-

John Fogerty 1:09:21 Or at least the one I remember is, I call it the, as the, the one I can remember. It was a morning. I was getting ready to go to school. I could walk to school. It was, like, two and a half blocks from my house, something like that. I lived on Ramona. You go past Pomona, and then the next street was Ashbury, and the school was on Ashbury up about two blocks. Uh, Harding School. Um, it was a grammar school. Anyway, I'm getting ready to go to school. Got my lunch. I'm about to turn off the radio, and this commercial comes on. I was listening to R&B, right? The rhythm and blues channel from Oakland. And the DJ suddenly says, "Do you have the wash day blues? Is this day gonna be drudgery bec- well, maybe you're using the wrong..." And they went off talking about laundry soap.

Joe Rogan 1:10:22 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:10:22 Right? I don't know if there was a song involved in the commercial. I think it was just a read commercial. 'Cause it was probably live, you know, right there on-

Joe Rogan 1:10:31 Mm-hmm

John Fogerty 1:10:31 ... old-time radio. So I went out the door with, you know, carrying my little sack with the lunch in it. Said, "Wash day blues, wow." I get kinda to the end of the street. I think that's Lynn. I gotta go down, you know, three streets. And I'm walking along, I say, "Wow, what is... " ♪ Dun, dun, dun, dun. ♪ ♪ Oh, I got the wash day blues. ♪ ♪ Dun, dun, dun. ♪ I'm making that noise. It's Muddy Waters. It's the riff from, um, probably Hoochie Coochie Man, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:11:00 Right.

John Fogerty 1:11:01 Uh, and it all comes together. I'm just walking down the street singing about all the stuff that... Because it's blues.

Joe Rogan 1:11:09 Right.

John Fogerty 1:11:09 And I'm hearing all these guys on this, you know, channel I listen to singing the blues and about blues, so I got wash day blues. That's my s- that's my song.

Joe Rogan 1:11:18 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:11:19 You know, for years and years I thought it, I thought... I was embarrassed about that story. I said, "God, John, why couldn't you have a great story about the sinking of the Titanic or something?"

Joe Rogan 1:11:31 Right.

John Fogerty 1:11:31 "Wash day blues?" 'Cause it just seems so mundane. But now I kinda recognize because of the, the two elements I had put together, um, it, it's just kind of natural. Um, it's really the process of writing songs.

Joe Rogan 1:11:48 That's amazing. And so when, when you wrote songs, like I, I, I saw this, uh, video clip where you're talking about, I think it was Old Man Down the Road. Is that the, the, the beginning riff? ♪ Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. ♪

John Fogerty 1:12:01 You got it.

Joe Rogan 1:12:02 Yeah. And you were talking about how you, that riff just hit you.

John Fogerty 1:12:05 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:12:07 Is that-

John Fogerty 1:12:07 Well... Yeah. Um, well, I had this place. Uh, it was my studio. It was a conver- basically the garage of a house that I had bought to be my, my office and my place, so it was a size of a garage. Uh, that, I would go there every day. So in the morning I'd get in, I'd turn on my tape recorder and, you know, various pieces of equipment and stuff. That, that was my process certainly every weekday morning. Sometimes on Saturday, Sunday, whatever, but certainly the five days a week. Um, and I'd walk in there and, uh, work on music. I did this every day for, I mean, years and years, from '74 until Centerfield came out, basically. Uh, which was 11 years later. [laughs] Um, and so one morning I walk in and I haven't even turned on the, the stuff yet. I just, for some reason I went right to the guitar, and I turned on the amp and picked up the guitar, and I'm just kinda noodling 'cause I like to do that. A lot of my songs have started this way. But suddenly just played, ♪ Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. ♪ And it really had that sound to it. And I, it got my attention because I knew that it wasn't anything else.And I also-- I mean, this is like in a n- this is how quick our brains can work. You know, it's taken me way longer to tell it than the actual thing. But so I played the dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, and I realize it's not complete. It needs an answer. And I'm also aware that it's like being on a tightrope or something over Niagara Falls [laughs] , you know? You gotta have the right answer, and there's probably only one, 'cause all the other ones are gonna kill it, and you'll never remember this again, 'cause that happens all the time.

Joe Rogan 1:14:08 Right.

John Fogerty 1:14:08 You know, it'd be lame. You, you, you're there, you're-- it's precarious, it's hanging in the air, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. And you gotta come back with the thing to make it complete, and it has to be the right thing. Uh, uh, uh, dun, dun, dun-

Joe Rogan 1:14:26 Yeah

John Fogerty 1:14:26 ... dun, dun, dun. Yeah. [laughs] Yes. And so I dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Oh my God, yeah. And I've-- you know, I play it over and over probably for five minutes. I just tend to do that. That's, that's the joy of music. That's the joy right there, that... 'Cause I knew it wasn't anything else. There was no question in my mind that, well, is this coming from, you know, The Beatles-

Joe Rogan 1:14:54 Right

John Fogerty 1:14:54 ... or Howlin' Wolf or something, [laughs] right?

Joe Rogan 1:14:56 Right.

John Fogerty 1:14:57 Um, so immediately, I c- I had kept this little songbook that's only about that big, uh, with titles in it. And I go flipping through the, the book, and I think I see something that's Somewhere Down the Road. Okay. That for some reason appealed to me, and I stuck with it. Okay, that's what it's called. This song's gonna be Somewhere Down the Road. And that day, I start... So now I turn on my tape recorder and all that. I play some dr- 'cause I had to play real drums in. Um, that's what took me so long, folks.

Joe Rogan 1:15:35 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:15:36 Anyway, um, so I make a little thing that's just the riff and then make a space of just the drums playing and nothing else, so I can kind of listen to it and improvise w- what's, what's going on after this riff? What's somewhere down the road? And of course, I start talking about, uh, he get the thunder from the mountain, he bring the lightning from the sky, you know, and all that. And these things are going on. And so uh, y- you gotta shoot forward probably a few weeks. I realize I'm starting to write a song, but the title Somewhere Down the Road to me just seems lame. It seems undefined, not cool enough, not focused, n- and probably not gonna remember it, because it, it sounds like just what it is. You won't remember that. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:16:31 Right.

John Fogerty 1:16:32 Right? You know, if you say, "I've got a polka dot Chevy sitting on top of a bull moose," or whatever, and that's your title, you probably get a picture in your head, [laughs] you know?

Joe Rogan 1:16:46 Right.

John Fogerty 1:16:46 It's gonna stick. So I'm hunting around. Well, what are you doing here? What are you talking about in this song? We're talking about this guy. He's, he's evil. He's the old man. He's the old man down the road. Oh, that's way better.

Joe Rogan 1:17:02 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:17:02 So the song became that. The, the deal is, with my little songbook, probably two years later, after the al- that album had come out, I said, "You know what? I wanna, I wanna check on where Somewhere Down the Road came." And I went cover to cover, and it's not in there. There is no place where I've written Somewhere Down the Road. I just thought I saw it, and that led me to a really cool song.

Joe Rogan 1:17:36 Wow.

John Fogerty 1:17:37 The reason I'm telling you this is there was a time I, I had an office in Warner Brothers, and I would-- when I was staying down in, uh, LA. And I would go in there all the time and write, had some keyboards and stuff. And one day I thought I needed a break. I took my book and I went out and sat-- it was Warner Brothers parking lot, like cars. Went out to my car and sat down 'cause I was trying to give myself some ins- you know, get going, do something. And I thumbed through the book and I saw Change in the Weather. And I said, "Man, I like that." And I look up and it's kind of a cloudy, gloomy sky, you know? Yeah. Change in the... Yeah. So I ran back in my room and I started, and I, I went off. I was inspired and I wrote a song called Change in the Weather. Well, same deal. After that album came out, I decided to check my... It ain't in there. It's nowhere in my book where it says Change in the Weather. So I nowadays tell people, "You know, maybe it's a shape-shifter."

Joe Rogan 1:18:52 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:18:53 And there's stuff in there, it can just kinda go, "John, listen to this. I got an idea for you." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:18:59 Right. Well, the creative process is so mysterious.

John Fogerty 1:19:02 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:19:02 'Cause everybody that I talk to, whether it's comedians or authors or musicians, they say the ideas almost don't feel like they're theirs, like they're receiving them from somewhere.

John Fogerty 1:19:12 For certain.

Joe Rogan 1:19:14 That's how you feel?

John Fogerty 1:19:15 Yep. To me it's, uh, it's like tuning in a radio.

Joe Rogan 1:19:19 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:19:19 Right? And, [laughs] and a lot of it, there's... I guess it's the way I was raised. You kinda have to be worthy.

Joe Rogan 1:19:28 Right.

John Fogerty 1:19:28 You know? I mean, there's a, a big dose of if you're all angry and treating people mean and doing all that, you-I'm closing the book.

Joe Rogan 1:19:40 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:19:40 I'm not sending you nothing [laughs] .

Joe Rogan 1:19:41 I think that, too.

John Fogerty 1:19:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:43 I think that, too.

John Fogerty 1:19:43 You know, you gotta be receptive and, and honor-

Joe Rogan 1:19:47 Yeah

John Fogerty 1:19:47 ... this process that we're going through here. And you-- if you're in that frame of mind and some humility about this whole thing-

Joe Rogan 1:19:56 Yeah

John Fogerty 1:19:56 ... maybe I'll send you something.

Joe Rogan 1:19:57 The muse.

John Fogerty 1:19:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19:59 Yeah. Have you ever heard of Steven Pressfield?

John Fogerty 1:20:02 Huh?

Joe Rogan 1:20:03 Steven Pressfield. He's an author. He wrote a great book called The War of Art.

John Fogerty 1:20:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:07 And, uh, I give this b- I have boxes of this book out front, and I give it to comedians and artists all the time 'cause it's a, just a book about the creative process, about writing.

John Fogerty 1:20:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:20:17 And one of the things that he talks about is the muse, about giving honor to the muse and sitting there and, and calling upon the muse for these ideas, that if you treat it like it's a real thing, it will provide you. If you show up every day and you put in the work, the muse will give you these ideas.

John Fogerty 1:20:34 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:20:34 But they do feel... Like, to everybody that I talk to that's really creative, they feel like they're coming from somewhere.

John Fogerty 1:20:41 Yeah. And yeah, it, it feels like it's always been there.

Joe Rogan 1:20:45 Right.

John Fogerty 1:20:46 And it's just up to you to be able to-

Joe Rogan 1:20:49 Gather it

John Fogerty 1:20:49 ... actually be able to see it or hear it.

Joe Rogan 1:20:51 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:20:51 Right?

Joe Rogan 1:20:51 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:20:52 'Cause I d- I do a lot of-- I get ideas in my head. I'm just walking around, and it'll play the sa- to me the same as if you're listening to the radio.

Joe Rogan 1:21:01 It just gets in the head, and-

John Fogerty 1:21:02 Right

Joe Rogan 1:21:02 ... you start feeling it.

John Fogerty 1:21:03 But, u- um, I, I do believe you have to, you have to be doing it all the time. Like, for me, it was a process to actually sit down, be ready. And a lot of times nothing happens. You know, you got a-

Joe Rogan 1:21:19 Right

John Fogerty 1:21:19 ... blank sheet of paper, and it stays blank [laughs] you know?

Joe Rogan 1:21:23 Right. Right.

John Fogerty 1:21:24 Um, but if you do that enough times, at certain times you'll get a really good inspiration.

Joe Rogan 1:21:33 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:21:33 You'll be a l- that's the way I... You'll be allowed to receive it.

Joe Rogan 1:21:37 Yeah. Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:21:38 Right? But it r- it really isn't you.

Joe Rogan 1:21:41 Right.

John Fogerty 1:21:41 That's the way I, I think of it. What it is, is you have talent. You're supposed to honor your talent. And so I'm gonna give you something if you're worthy, and now it's up to you to honor, you know, use your s- don't just go, "I got it. We're done." No. [laughs] You gotta work it now.

Joe Rogan 1:22:00 Right.

John Fogerty 1:22:00 Polish it. You know, make it.

Joe Rogan 1:22:02 Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I feel the exact same way. I think, I think there's truth to what you're saying. Um, I wanna ask you about Fortunate Son. How did you write that? Like, how did, how did that come about? That is, like, one of the greatest rebellion songs of all time.

John Fogerty 1:22:19 [laughs] Appreciate that.

Joe Rogan 1:22:20 It's an amazing song. I love it. It's, it's also a fantastic workout song, by the way. That song gets you jazzed up. If you're doing, like, a treadmill or something like that-

John Fogerty 1:22:30 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:22:30 ... you're starting to get tired, crank that sucker up.

John Fogerty 1:22:33 [laughs] Well, um, first of all, I think the first thing I gotta say about it is I was drafted, so I was in the military. And I, I got in the Army Reserves, but, um, was well a- and was on active duty and all the rest, so I well understood the position of, uh, I, I... You might say the military mindset, right? Even though I was a... I was a young person, and this is right during the Vietnam era. And I think I, I, I really need to say that almost no one my age wanted to be in the Army and go to Vietnam. I just... That was something you, "No, I don't wanna do that." [laughs] Right?

Joe Rogan 1:23:21 Right.

John Fogerty 1:23:22 So I got my draft notice, um, was-- got into the Army Reserves. So I understood that side of the coin and that side of fate, you might say. Um, the deal w- I think the deal being, "Okay, I'm in the military, so now I gotta play by the rules. I gotta do everything that's... This is what I am," right?

Joe Rogan 1:23:48 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:23:49 Um, there's a little-- [sighs] there's a little bit of the whole idea of being American and serving your country. Um, what I'm tr- I'm trying not to, t-trying not to say, "Oh yeah, now I'm gung ho and I'm John Wayne and I'm gonna take, take on Iwo Jima or something," you know? It was more like, "Yeah, but you gotta do this right." You know, you c- you can't just be a, some guy that's on AWOL all the time and being a mess. You know, I wanted to do it right. So, um, I w- I went through all of that and eve- but it's another story, but eventually got my honorable discharge, which led to another song, but it's a different song. Um, and that was just before, just as the Creedence career was getting started. But anyhow, um, during the Vietnam time, you began to... You know, there were, uh, there was a lot of unrest, civil unrest in America and around the world. Those times were very volatile. But especially in America, there was a lot of protests and discussion about the war itself. Remember, there was a draft, so young people kind of by nature were against the war and against the draft 'cause it seemed to be sort of not logical [laughs] how's that. Um, and in some instances, you would see on the news, you know, some senator who had the political clout that he could keep his teenage son from being drafted or get his teenage son into some cushy job. And you, you kinda saw it a few times. These guys were-The fix was in, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:25:42 Right.

John Fogerty 1:25:43 And that just, it really didn't seem fair, [coughs] not ju- not just in my own case, but I, I more identified with the people that were protesting the war. No one had ever really explained why we were having that war. To my mind, we still don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:26:02 Right.

John Fogerty 1:26:03 You know? It just, somebody's ego decided they wanted to have a war, and they had a war. So, m- most of these things that have cropped up ever since have always ended kind of miserably, um, and we never, th- they never were one. They just sort of dissolved.

Joe Rogan 1:26:22 Right.

John Fogerty 1:26:22 Um, so there was no marching band and all that stuff to get the, you know, like World War II ended with a decisive victory. Anyhow, that angst and anger within me about that situation, uh, was fueling my thoughts about c- the current times. This was 1969. So I started showing the band, um, all, all the songs that the band learned and played, uh, throughout the cr- the Creedence career, they literally learned them as instrumentals. They didn't hear the song. I didn't show them the song. So they, in other words, the bass play- I would show the bass player his part. "Here's how your part goes. Here's how the drums will be. Here's the rhythm guitar part." And the band wouldn't r- actually hear the whole song until I had gone into the studio after that recording process and added my vocal, sang the background vocal parts-

Joe Rogan 1:27:29 Oh, wow

John Fogerty 1:27:30 ... uh, played the conga drum or the shakers or tambourine or piano, you know, all the other stuff. Then they heard how the song went. Um, so they learned their parts as instrumentals, and this was ex- exactly that way. I showed them how to, to play what was the form of the song and that I didn't even, I don't think I had told them the name of the song yet. I thought I was writing a song called Favorite Son-

Joe Rogan 1:28:01 Mm

John Fogerty 1:28:01 ... because, um, starting in 1952, when they sent my second grade class, I think, home to watch, um, to watch the inauguration, I believe, of Eisenhower. Uh, I think that's what it was, and all the, you know, we had a tiny little TV. All I saw was big black limousines. [laughs] That's, uh, that was my entire impression of the presidential thing-

Joe Rogan 1:28:29 Right

John Fogerty 1:28:30 ... and politics. So after that, I kind of would watch, uh, parts of the conventions in the summer. Uh, you know, there'd be these gigantic, uh, you know, I didn't know what they were then, but these big rooms full of smoke, and every once in a while, somebody, "Your Honor, the great state of Texas would like to nominate her favorite son, Billy Sol Estes," or whatever.

Joe Rogan 1:29:00 Right.

John Fogerty 1:29:00 Right? And they all said that. You know, "The state of Vermont would like to nominate her favorite son." And so that, I had written that one down in my book, and I thought I was gonna write a, kind of a political song. So the band was getting pretty solid in the, in the backing track, and that told me, you know, I, I was driving a career. I mean, I, there wasn't someone else telling me. I was the one deciding and pushing, and I think pushing pretty hard. I just, I wanted a new single to be ready, and this seemed like it might be it. So I w- at one point, after the band had been rehearsing the music for that song, Fortunate Son, uh, for a few weeks, it was getting pretty good. Said, "All right, I gotta write the words. I gotta get the whole song together." I took a little yellow tablet like that, went in my bedroom, and s- sat on the bed, and instead of what I thought it was gonna be, the first thing, I said some... You know, this idea of the red, white, and blue, and the p- they're always super patriots, you know, all this stuff, and bluster and all that, blah, right? And I just go, "How do I get that? How do I get that?" Well, they're waving the flag, and yeah, but what's going on now? They're pointing the cannon at you, [laughs] right?

Joe Rogan 1:30:26 Right.

John Fogerty 1:30:27 Uh, yeah, but it ain't me. And I realized, oh, wow, that's something I can repeat. It ain't me. I, I ain't no, you know. And w- literally, that, I mean, it j- I just sort of did it in front of you, almost the way it played out of me sitting on that bed. Literally walked in, and 20 minutes later, walked out with the whole song.

Joe Rogan 1:30:51 Wow.

John Fogerty 1:30:51 Coming from the, I didn't have anything other than favorite son. The rest was just the stuff that was boiling in my head at the time, of course. Um, basically because well-heeled people, uh, getting out of the draft, which kind of pissed me off. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:31:11 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:31:11 You know? I just, you know, there were a lot of guy- now that I was in the, or had been in the military, and I knew there were a lot of other guys felt just like me. It wasn't like they, I didn't grow up that I wanted to be a soldier and go do that. It was just fate that made that happen. So the unfairness of the situation made me wanna talk about that.

Joe Rogan 1:31:34 Well, you nailed it. It's such a great song.

John Fogerty 1:31:37 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:31:38 So did you have the music all settled out when you went to the musicians and explained to them how the song was gonna play out?

John Fogerty 1:31:44 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:31:45 Did you have that before the lyrics?

John Fogerty 1:31:47 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:31:48 Wow.

John Fogerty 1:31:48 Almost always.

Joe Rogan 1:31:49 So what did you think the song was gonna be about when you f- when you just brought them the music?

John Fogerty 1:31:55 Well, I, as I said, I thought it was gonna be Favorite Son.

Joe Rogan 1:31:58 So you, you-

John Fogerty 1:31:58 And-

Joe Rogan 1:31:59 ... kind of still had the theme in your head of how it was about-

John Fogerty 1:32:02 It was something around that stuff

Joe Rogan 1:32:03 ... people that were... Right.

John Fogerty 1:32:04 I just didn't know what it would... And I also, you know how there's a T-shirt, the, uh, "The older I get, the better I was"?

Joe Rogan 1:32:13 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:32:13 You know, um, I was pretty good then. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:32:16 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:32:16 I guess what I'm trying to say is I didn't know what the song was gonna be, but I mean, now I would certainly have a little trepidation [laughs] I'd go in a room with a blank... I'm probably gonna come out of there with a, some, you know, a smiley face that I doodled or something.

Joe Rogan 1:32:33 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:32:33 No words. Meaning, somehow I was counting on myself to do it. But that's pr- that's pretty precocious, right? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:32:44 Yeah. But that's also that divine intervention of the muse. Like, you-

John Fogerty 1:32:48 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:32:48 ... put in the work-

John Fogerty 1:32:50 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:32:50 ... and you called. You called upon it for inspiration, and your mind started lighting up.

John Fogerty 1:32:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:56 And then you started putting the pieces together.

John Fogerty 1:32:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:32:59 And it made me-

John Fogerty 1:32:59 Oh, that's a wonderful... Joe, that's, that's an, an amazing process when... 'Cause that's what I do. I'm not a prizefighter, you know? I'm not a baseball pitcher, let's say, 'cause there would be an evolution in his work.

Joe Rogan 1:33:14 Right.

John Fogerty 1:33:14 You know, where something that you can... I'm, I'm not those things, but I, I am a songwriter, and that, that it plays out over some... It isn't just once, you know? It plays out over some time. And that incidence where you suddenly get a hook into an idea and then the, the gods, the muse, they let you continue forward with something that's way better than you ever dreamed was gonna be it. And suddenly it, wow, this is [laughs] really cool, and you're excited, and you're happy. And, and it's coming to be. And you reali- as I said, that was, by the way, by far the quickest I ever wrote a song. And that's so quick, so fast, that y- I mean, it's almost like instant replay. It was so fast that you, you, or at least I did, I go, "Man, this is really good." I mean, and you j- just, like, a m- minute ago, I was taking a breath, hoping that something would happen.

Joe Rogan 1:34:23 Yeah. Well, that's what's amazing about great songs sometimes. Like, John Mellencamp was telling me a story about, uh, h- uh, I Need a Lover That Won't Drive Me Crazy. Like, that song, he wrote in the shower.

John Fogerty 1:34:36 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:34:37 Like, all together.

John Fogerty 1:34:37 You mean in one shower?

Joe Rogan 1:34:38 In one shower.

John Fogerty 1:34:39 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:34:40 He was just taking a shower, and all of a sudden, "I need a lover that won't drive me crazy."

John Fogerty 1:34:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:34:46 And then next thing you know, he's got it.

John Fogerty 1:34:49 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:34:49 And it's an all-time classic.

John Fogerty 1:34:51 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:34:51 It's amazing.

John Fogerty 1:34:53 Well, that... [laughs] The, the songwriter, and especially when he's on his game, he, he knows it's... And, and it re- it relates to your own personality, the kind... Whatever it is you like, the stuff you have gravitated towards. And so when one of those comes along, it really makes you smile, 'cause you're going, "Yeah, this is, this sounds like me. This is the stuff I like."

Joe Rogan 1:35:20 Right.

John Fogerty 1:35:20 And you, you go with it. 'Cause I mean, you know, I, I am, I, I would say, notoriously corny, you know? At least-

Joe Rogan 1:35:30 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:35:30 ... I think I am. You know, the, it, it's like they make all these jokes nowadays about dad bod and-

Joe Rogan 1:35:36 Dad jokes

John Fogerty 1:35:36 ... all those kind of things. Yeah. I mean, I literally think that's me.

Joe Rogan 1:35:41 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:35:41 Right? And some of the s- I mean, Centerfield is the corniest thing that was ever invented. I mean, I love it. I unashamedly wanna be corny. It, it's, that's who I am. I'm corny, right? But it, I mean, in that song, it just, that resonates with... I'm ha- I'm, I'm glad I'm happy. I'm happy to be happy. I wanna be happy, right? In other words, I don't have to feel... 'Cause rock and roll is all about dark colors and-

Joe Rogan 1:36:11 Right

John Fogerty 1:36:12 ... leather jackets and piercing and, you know, tats and everything, grr, and a scowl.

Joe Rogan 1:36:17 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:36:17 You know, Elvis would grr, all that stuff.

Joe Rogan 1:36:20 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:36:20 That's good. I mean, you know, [laughs] but it, I like, you know, uh... Well, it seems to be me. I can just be unashamedly happy, and I'm glad I'm... You know, like, Centerfield is so optimistic and just great.

Joe Rogan 1:36:35 It's an awesome song.

John Fogerty 1:36:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:37 I, I don't think rock and roll's all dark. I think there's aspects of rock and roll that people like that are dark because it's mysterious.

John Fogerty 1:36:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:44 These guys are rock stars.

John Fogerty 1:36:45 True.

Joe Rogan 1:36:45 But you know, rock's everything. It's like there's so many layers to it. There's so many different types of personality, and you happy to be happy is also an awesome part of rock.

John Fogerty 1:36:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:57 Clearly.

John Fogerty 1:36:57 Yeah. Well, I... Because actually real people, all us humans, sort of have all those different parts, right?

Joe Rogan 1:37:04 Yeah. Yeah, that's why we identify with it.

John Fogerty 1:37:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:07 And I think the, the brooding, dark rock star is like, it's a fantasy idea that people want to, they, they wanna believe that there's that part of them. You know, there's this just... You know what I mean?

John Fogerty 1:37:20 I'm gonna say abs- it's absolutely, and um, you know, Marlon Brando on the motorcycle in the, is it The Wild Ones, I guess?

Joe Rogan 1:37:31 Yeah, I think so.

John Fogerty 1:37:32 Um-

Joe Rogan 1:37:32 Yeah

John Fogerty 1:37:32 ... you know, that he's just so bad.

Joe Rogan 1:37:38 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:37:38 And so rock stars inve- well, other, uh, I guess, but rock sta- because it was right in that era, they invented or gravitated to, i- in other words, one picture defines me.

Joe Rogan 1:37:52 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:37:52 This is my uniform. I, you know, I sleep in this.

Joe Rogan 1:37:56 Yeah. [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:37:57 [laughs] You know? I mean, and so, you know, I've got a big chain.

Joe Rogan 1:38:00 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:38:01 And a leather jacket. And you know, now the... I mean, it got more and more violent or dark.

Joe Rogan 1:38:05 Right.

John Fogerty 1:38:06 You know, hoodoo voodoo, you know? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:38:07 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:38:07 And all that. Um-But, and it's, it's funny because it's basically, I'm all this all the time.

Joe Rogan 1:38:15 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:38:15 This, this one picture does it. And I, I kind of... My wife and I joke about it 'cause she'll kind of s- say something like, "Well, you don't dress like a rock star." And then of course I'll say, "'Cause I'm not." Right?

Joe Rogan 1:38:29 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:38:30 Um, I, I, I always sort of... I mean, I have a leather jacket somewhere.

Joe Rogan 1:38:35 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:38:36 Right? Or two even. Uh, and it, it-- How can I say it? To me, it was, it was a uniform. To me, it was a pose. And so, you know, I tend to actually just put on clothes you can buy in the store. When I get up in the morning, gotta take my kids to school, you know, I didn't put on the whole, like, uh, eh, just got off the stage at-

Joe Rogan 1:39:01 Right

John Fogerty 1:39:01 ... at, uh, I don't know, name some place at The Whisky.

Joe Rogan 1:39:05 Right.

John Fogerty 1:39:05 You know, and now I'm bringing my kids to school. Hey, Mrs. [censored] , what, how you doing? Flip my cigarette over into the... [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:39:14 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:39:15 I guess I could be a sitcom or something, but, uh, that wasn't me. I just, I kind of was normal dad to my... And I'm glad they saw me that way, tell you the truth.

Joe Rogan 1:39:25 Yeah, absolutely. Look, the, the idea is silly that everybody has to be one way. It's ridiculous.

John Fogerty 1:39:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39:31 It's ridiculous.

John Fogerty 1:39:31 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:39:32 Well, clearly when you look at what you produced, like you clearly are a rock star, and you did it by being yourself. Like-

John Fogerty 1:39:39 Actually, I think you nailed it there. Um, here, here's a real truism. When you're making something, and it's, and we talked about this, and it's resonating with you, it just seems like in your wheelhouse, it's you, you're, it's, that's probably gonna be really good.

Joe Rogan 1:39:57 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:39:57 It's comfortable, sounds like this, you, or you relate, you relate. It's great. If you ever get yourself as a songwriter, singer, whatever, "Well, so-and-so's gonna really like that I did this," and you're off on to some weird thing trying to, you know, be a change or different or something, that's not gonna work. Absolutely not gonna work because you, you think somebody else sees it a certain way and you're doing it for them, and God knows whatever that is, but it isn't you at all. You've, you probably are just out of your element, off the rails, you might say.

Joe Rogan 1:40:39 Yeah. And guys do get off the rails.

John Fogerty 1:40:40 Oh, I've done it myself.

Joe Rogan 1:40:41 Yeah?

John Fogerty 1:40:42 You know? Oh, yeah, especially being preachy and that kind of thing. You know, there's some songs that you... "Oh, God. John."

Joe Rogan 1:40:48 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:40:49 "Shut up, John."

Joe Rogan 1:40:50 Where, where does that come from? Does that come from just you have a big audience and you, all these people look up to you and you just start feeling you're important?

John Fogerty 1:40:59 Um, I think, I think some of it, I don't, I don't know all the answers. Who does? But, um, you're in a m- in a mood where you're, or a mode, you're, you're, you wanna get some material together. You wanna make a record. You wanna have some stuff finished, and maybe you're not so inspired, right? So, okay, well, I'm gonna, how about if I talk about, uh, whatever, and you start trying. It's almost like a square peg in a round hole. Well, yeah, I gotta do something because there's, there is some credence [chuckles] to that just work, just start working. Just start moving. You know, don't just sit there. Do something. Sorry. And keep grinding and maybe eventually it'll get to where it's natural. You know, the good part.

Joe Rogan 1:41:52 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:41:52 Because just sitting and doing nothing, which I've certainly been accused of, is that's nothing for no one, right? So you start moving your feet and trying to get the juices to flow and all that, um. But like I said, yeah, I wrote some songs, a whole album really, uh, called Eye of the Zombie. It was the follow-up to, uh, Centerfield. And I think... Well, I, I had some other, some ulterior, n-not that I did it on purpose, but some other ingredients came into my mix. I'll, I'll get there in a minute. But anyway, the album as a whole is pretty dark and pretty, and n-not, doesn't ring true to me, I, I think. It's kinda misses the mark. It's off. That's a, that album and that period of my life is a really interesting, um, really interesting phenomenon. I think that I'm not the only one. It's just that I consider myself lucky. So I worked for, you know... I, I had this enormous band, number one in the world, um, get screwed by the record company, lose my life savings. Band breaks up. Band's in the, in the newspaper saying n-nasty things about me, et cetera. Uh, I'm held kind of in a dungeon by the record company, and I gotta either give them my music or no one else [laughs] , you know? Um, and I somehow managed to get through all that, and it's f- fifteen years after Creedence breaking up, basically. Finally come out with an album called Centerfield. There's happy, joyful music on it. It goes to number one. It's acclaimed, which is a wonderful thing, and it's a hit. Uh, I think what happened is, the story I tell about it, it's as if you'd been unjustly in prison, you know, convicted of a c- crime, put in the penitentiary for a long time, and one day they decide, "Oops,You're right, we made a mistake. You're free because you didn't commit any crimes. We're gonna let you free. And you're so happy, you walk out the door, that's Centerfield coming out, and you come out into this big meadow where, you know, green grass and bluebirds. You know, it's a Disney cartoon, right?

Joe Rogan 1:44:34 Right.

John Fogerty 1:44:35 And then you turn around and you s- see fricking San Quentin, the prison that you were in, and now you're angry. You look at that, and you're just r- "W- w- what the..." That's what happened. I, you know, I... When Centerfield came out, I should've im- and was a success, in other words, I was exonerated or vindicated, I should've immediately gone to therapy, right? Seen a shrink. But that ca- kind of not my, that I wasn't raised anywhere near any of that kind of stuff, so I didn't know to do that. Uh, instead, all that stuff that I was repressing so that I could do Centerfield, fwoop, it just came out like... And I was, instead of being overjoyed, I was miserable, bitter. A- a- and it, it happened all at once. It didn't, like, [laughs] develop into... It was just bam. And for, like, two years, it was like, ugh. You could say Saul's name, and I'm m- I, I would implode like the, the werewolf in, [laughs] in, uh, Werewolves of London or something. You know, it just...

Joe Rogan 1:45:46 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:45:46 Or the, what's that guy? Uh, the Hulk.

Joe Rogan 1:45:49 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:45:49 [laughs] Um, and so I made that album, and that's all that stuff. I mean, I just didn't have the sense to see that it was, it was, it was nothing like Centerfield.

Joe Rogan 1:46:00 Right.

John Fogerty 1:46:01 Not a good... This guy's not happy. It was not a good follow-up. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:46:07 How did you-

John Fogerty 1:46:08 And then-

Joe Rogan 1:46:08 ... bounce back?

John Fogerty 1:46:10 ... I met Julie.

Joe Rogan 1:46:11 Ah.

John Fogerty 1:46:13 The, you know, right in the middle of that tour in '86 for, um, I of the Zombie, or as we... So I Am a Zombie. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:46:25 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:46:25 You know? Uh, I met Julie. And even though I didn't know, I, I thought I was in perpetual binge mode. Uh, basically, "Okay, I'm gonna go out and tour now. I'm just gonna be a rock star on the road and be, be everything I never got to do for 20 years," right? "Now I'm like a, I'm a little kid musician again." That's what I thought I was doing. Obviously, that comes from some anger to talk like that. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:46:59 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:47:00 And so I just thought I was going to make my way through the Hollywood Hills, you might say. I think I actually said that in those days. And one day, just suddenly met Julie, not expecting to meet the love of my life, uh, the person I feel that was, that I was destined to meet, and the person that would, through her good graces, help me find myself and help me enjoy and find the, the joy of life again. Um, and it all, it all changed.

Joe Rogan 1:47:41 That's awesome. That's awesome. It's great that you bounced out of that, 'cause a lot of people don't. You know, when something bad happens to them, they, they just go into a spiral. They get in-

John Fogerty 1:47:51 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:47:52 It's kind of amazing that you were joyful at first, but then you started getting resentful and thinking about it.

John Fogerty 1:47:58 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:47:58 Which is totally understandable.

John Fogerty 1:48:00 Well, you said a spiral, and that's just what it felt like.

Joe Rogan 1:48:02 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:48:02 You're just kinda getting... It's getting worse and worse, not better.

Joe Rogan 1:48:06 That alcohol as well, right?

John Fogerty 1:48:08 Yep. Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:48:09 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:48:09 And boy, you do... You know, they call it... It takes you a long time to figure out it's a depressant.

Joe Rogan 1:48:15 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:48:15 You are d- You're drinking. You think you're drinking to forget stuff-

Joe Rogan 1:48:20 Right

John Fogerty 1:48:20 ... but you're getting more and more depressed.

Joe Rogan 1:48:22 Right. Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:48:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:23 And it's weakening your resolve, your, your, your body. It's weakening your vitality, so you're tired and you're angry.

John Fogerty 1:48:30 That too.

Joe Rogan 1:48:31 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:48:31 And your, and your mindset.

Joe Rogan 1:48:33 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:48:33 You're just in a, in a miserable mood.

Joe Rogan 1:48:37 And it's also, that's also in the, the rock and roll stereotype, you know? The, the drinking, hard partying ro- Like, one of my favorite songs when I was a kid, uh, was, uh, Bad Company's Shooting Star, and every kid that used to listen to that thought they were Johnny. Like, "Johnny was a schoolboy when he heard his first Beatles song."

John Fogerty 1:48:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:57 It's a sad song. The guy dies young.

John Fogerty 1:48:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:48:59 Becomes a rock star and winds up dead. And everybody, like, was romanticizing this song of this terrible lifestyle that this guy lived. This guy was super talented and, uh, had the gift.

John Fogerty 1:49:12 Well, it's based on, you know, some reality there, of course. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:49:15 Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:49:17 Um, unfortunately, yeah, we, we really romanticize the idea of dying young. Bring... Burn bright, die young, and it's, it's all cool until [laughs] they're pointing at you, and you're the one that's gonna die. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:49:33 Right. Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:49:33 I mean, they're, at that moment in life, most people, "No, I don't wanna die."

Joe Rogan 1:49:38 I know.

John Fogerty 1:49:38 You know? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:49:39 It's just-

John Fogerty 1:49:39 Up until then, they're, it's just sort of a vague idea out there somewhere.

Joe Rogan 1:49:43 Right, right, right. But weird that it's a romantic, vague idea, you know? Johnny died one night, died in his bed, bottle of whiskey, sleeping tablets by his head. Like, we just, just, like, assumed, like, this is how it goes, you know? Like, this is the rock and roll romantic story.

John Fogerty 1:50:01 Well, you, you hear those words when you're young, of course, and it... Right. That actually sounds kind of positive, you know, because rock and roll, man.

Joe Rogan 1:50:10 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:50:10 When you're older, you can hear the same words, and you-Say yes, that's real, but it's not a positive thing anymore.

Joe Rogan 1:50:20 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:50:20 It's just sort of a statement of fact, right?

Joe Rogan 1:50:23 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:50:24 I mean, there's a... I, I'm sitting here now, you know, talking about some parts of me that are, uh, uh, I'm certainly embarrassed about and probably ashamed of. I, I've, I've let the shame part go. It just happened, right? I mean, I don't encourage anyone, and I try to tell them, "No, stay away from... Don't do what I did." Um, and, but I used to beat myself up a lot with the shame part, and I think that might be part of the healing, part of the getting out the other end, um, eh, be- because it, the more and more solid you get in the resolve of the way you're gonna really live your life-

Joe Rogan 1:51:06 Yeah

John Fogerty 1:51:06 ... and not that, the m- kind of more the shame dissipates.

Joe Rogan 1:51:11 Right.

John Fogerty 1:51:11 And you, you, you're not so... It's not tenuous anymore, like, "Oh, I might fall back." You know? You're not so scared that that could happen anymore.

Joe Rogan 1:51:19 I think the shame is an important element.

John Fogerty 1:51:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:21 I think the shame of your, your past and the mistakes that you've made motivates you to never make them again.

John Fogerty 1:51:27 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:51:27 As long as you don't think you're still that person.

John Fogerty 1:51:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:51:30 That's the problem, with some people, they'll do something in high school, and they carry that for the rest of their life. Like that, whatever it is, whatever stupid mistakes they made, whatever behavior, they, they think that's them forever, and that's what's crazy.

John Fogerty 1:51:43 Oh, we should-

Joe Rogan 1:51:44 You know, you gotta learn to forgive yourself

John Fogerty 1:51:44 ... be able to grow up and-

Joe Rogan 1:51:45 Yes

John Fogerty 1:51:45 ... and, and bec- [laughs] I mean, you know, kids, uh, uh, I got married the first time at 20. I mean, there just should be a law. Um, you know, c- you're, you're just too young. You don't, you don't know what you're doing.

Joe Rogan 1:52:01 Right.

John Fogerty 1:52:01 You don't know what all this really means.

Joe Rogan 1:52:03 Right.

John Fogerty 1:52:04 Um, certainly by the time I met Julie, you know... Y- you know what, though? That experience made me shy away for a few years there from the whole idea of, of a marriage commitment. I was committed, but the marriage part sc- scared me. You know, it just, oh, my goodness. And then one day I realized I was sort of, well, wait a minute. Go back to square one. What's the most joyful, happy thing you can do? Well, I wanna marry her. Right, and have children, and have a white picket fence and a house, and we go to kindergarten and-

Joe Rogan 1:52:43 Yeah

John Fogerty 1:52:43 ... all those things, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:52:44 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:52:44 We bake cookies at the PTA. I want all that.

Joe Rogan 1:52:47 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:52:48 So, sure.

Joe Rogan 1:52:50 It's crazy because that's not what anybody thinks of when you think of a rock and roll life.

John Fogerty 1:52:54 Uh-oh. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:52:56 Right?

John Fogerty 1:52:57 I suppose. See, I'm corny again.

Joe Rogan 1:52:59 [laughs] It's not corny. I think it's authentic.

John Fogerty 1:53:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:53:02 I don't think there's anything wrong with the way you think at all. I think it's, it's healthy. It's healthy to be-

John Fogerty 1:53:07 You know, I, I just really... Even though my, my mom, I mean, she was a warrior. You know, there... Think of it. There were five boys. That was my family. Uh, my parents split up when I s- it was kind of a long, ongoing thing, but somewhere around eight years old, and so it was my mom's job to raise these five boys. And I, uh, you know, at some point being a teenager a little later, I'd say, "It's a wonder we're not all in San Quentin."

Joe Rogan 1:53:36 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:53:36 You know? I mean, somehow she had enough of her. She gave enough of her to inspire us, all of us really, to be good people. I mean, and you know, we all had our faults and foibles and fell down and all, all that, but yet the ideal was to try and reach up here and be a good person. And, and [laughs] it was, because our family wasn't in a, in some sense, to try and have a normal family, you know, Leave It to Beaver and all that sort of thing.

Joe Rogan 1:54:09 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:54:09 So that was a, that was a big goal to me, a big inspiration to, to want that.

Joe Rogan 1:54:18 Well, it's a beautiful thing. There's nothing wrong with that idea.

John Fogerty 1:54:21 Not at all.

Joe Rogan 1:54:22 Not at all. It's just the idea that there's something wrong with it is that, that's the fake rock and roll vision. That's the vision of the dark artist.

John Fogerty 1:54:31 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:54:31 You know?

John Fogerty 1:54:32 I think, um, I don't know if I talked with Julie about this. Sometimes we show up at stuff, and there'll be a lot of characters. I'm talking about musical things.

Joe Rogan 1:54:42 Mm-hmm.

John Fogerty 1:54:42 Lot of characters roaming around. They're got, you know, they're... And you know, I kind of look like, um, a Ward Cleaver, Beaver's dad. You know, Mr., uh, Mr. Boy Scout or something walking around. [laughs] You know, and she's looking at me like, "Well, couldn't you have worn something a little more... " [laughs] I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:55:02 A little more rock and roll?

John Fogerty 1:55:03 Yeah, maybe.

Joe Rogan 1:55:04 [laughs]

John Fogerty 1:55:04 And I, I j- I'm just not bothered. I mean, I, it, it is kind of funny, though. I've, actually, I've worn some cool clothes at some of the stuff. That would, that would all be Julie's doing, of course. Um, yeah, I mean, it's-

Joe Rogan 1:55:22 Do you wa-

John Fogerty 1:55:22 ... it's almost like, you know, could you, could you show up at a reunion of, uh, rock guys, you know, in their 50s or something and everybody pull out their blotter, [laughs] you know, their police blot- "Oh, yeah, I got busted for blah, blah, blah." And everybody would have a... [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:55:40 A rap sheet.

John Fogerty 1:55:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:55:41 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:55:42 [laughs] I mean, it would be a badge of honor, but I suppose to me, I'm, I'm just really glad that it wasn't like that.

Joe Rogan 1:55:50 Well, it's just you being authentic. It's a powerful thing. It's, it's great, too, 'cause the influence is to not. The influence is to create an image, you know? And a lot of people cultivated that image. You know?

John Fogerty 1:56:03 Of course.

Joe Rogan 1:56:03 And they get kind of captured by it.

John Fogerty 1:56:05 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:56:05 And, and then you have to be that person forever. You can't, like, switch.

John Fogerty 1:56:10 LettermanTo Pee-wee Herman on his show. "Just think, Pee-wee, you're gonna have to dress like that for the rest of your life."

Joe Rogan 1:56:19 [laughs] That's true.

John Fogerty 1:56:21 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:56:21 Right? Right?

John Fogerty 1:56:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56:22 You become a character.

John Fogerty 1:56:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:56:24 And then that's what people love. They don't love you, they love this fake thing that you've presented to the world.

John Fogerty 1:56:29 Well, you know, it's the cowboy thing-

Joe Rogan 1:56:31 Mm-hmm

John Fogerty 1:56:31 ... the motorcycle-

Joe Rogan 1:56:33 Yeah

John Fogerty 1:56:33 ... whatever. I, I, I mean, look, I like all those too, actually.

Joe Rogan 1:56:37 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:56:37 I, you know, I love the... I, I like keeping it as a, a fantasy. Um, I watch some TV shows and my favorites are the s- the, the modern, you know, like Yellowstone and all the other ones after that. There's probably a lot of, a lot of, what do you call that? Literary license, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:57:00 Sure.

John Fogerty 1:57:01 For imagery, but I love the imagery.

Joe Rogan 1:57:04 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:57:04 I mean, I could sit there and watch that river flowing ba- past those rocks and the pine trees forever, and some cows going over the [laughs] ... That's okay. I love it.

Joe Rogan 1:57:13 And the stoic cowboys-

John Fogerty 1:57:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:57:14 ... living this rough-

John Fogerty 1:57:15 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:57:15 ... life.

John Fogerty 1:57:16 I like all that.

Joe Rogan 1:57:17 Of course. Everybody does. It's very romantic when you're looking at it from the outside especially.

John Fogerty 1:57:21 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:57:22 I mean, how many people moved to Montana because of that show?

John Fogerty 1:57:25 They're hoping not so many.

Joe Rogan 1:57:27 [laughs] I bet a lot did, though.

John Fogerty 1:57:28 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:57:28 A lot did, and I think a lot left.

John Fogerty 1:57:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57:31 Yeah, I think they realized how hard the winters are, and they're like, "All right."

John Fogerty 1:57:34 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 1:57:34 "This ain't, this ain't my, uh, romantic idea."

John Fogerty 1:57:38 Yeah, and it's a long winter up there.

Joe Rogan 1:57:40 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:57:40 Oh, boy.

Joe Rogan 1:57:41 Yeah. Music is, uh, it's one of the most powerful things in American culture, 'cause a great song like Fortunate Son can inspire people to change their lives. It can inspire people to make decisions. It does, it does things to people. It gives you fuel. Like I was saying, like, if I listen to that song when I'm working out, it's like I took an energy pill. Like all of a sudden I have more energy.

John Fogerty 1:58:05 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:58:05 Like, that's real. It's a, it's a powerful thing that you've created. It really is, you know? And the fact that you did it out of love and enjoyment speaks to why the music is so, it resonates so much with people.

John Fogerty 1:58:19 Well, you know, especially with that song, um, at that point in, uh, in the career of my band, remember, I was writing all the songs. Um, I'll talk about that after this, I guess, in a minute. Um, but I wanted to have a, just a all-out screaming rocker, which we didn't have yet. You know, the career was about a year and a half old. And so, I mean, I commissioned myself to, uh, I, I wanna have that, that absolutely loud-

Joe Rogan 1:58:58 Right

John Fogerty 1:58:58 ... screaming song with the guitars and all. And so that was sort of the commission I gave myself to create anyway.

Joe Rogan 1:59:06 As opposed to something like, Have You Ever Seen the Rain?

John Fogerty 1:59:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:59:09 Right?

John Fogerty 1:59:09 Or even Down on the Corner-

Joe Rogan 1:59:11 Right, right

John Fogerty 1:59:11 ... which is a different vibe.

Joe Rogan 1:59:12 Right.

John Fogerty 1:59:12 You know, I wanted to... 'Cause I like that. I like when bands, you know, uh, The Beatles, actually, I Want to Hold Your Hand or She Was Just 17.

Joe Rogan 1:59:22 Mm-hmm.

John Fogerty 1:59:22 Saw her standing there, I guess. Um, you know, when, or, [laughs] um, it's not really fast, but it certainly had that vibe. You know, the instrumental Rumble by Link Wray. I see I've missed you. Cool.

Joe Rogan 1:59:39 Yeah, I don't know that song.

John Fogerty 1:59:40 Can you put that one up?

Joe Rogan 1:59:41 Yeah, pull that one up.

John Fogerty 1:59:42 Yeah. [laughs] I-

Joe Rogan 1:59:44 We'll get, we'll get flagged. We'll remove it.

John Fogerty 1:59:46 Do you do that?

Joe Rogan 1:59:47 Just edit it out.

John Fogerty 1:59:47 Do you play little snippets-

Joe Rogan 1:59:48 Yeah, yeah

John Fogerty 1:59:48 ... of music?

Joe Rogan 1:59:48 We can play snippets, but the problem is we'll get-

John Fogerty 1:59:49 You know everything we've just been talking about?

Joe Rogan 1:59:52 Yeah.

John Fogerty 1:59:53 Everything, including the guy. If there's a clip of him playing that.

Joe Rogan 1:59:58 The, the only problem is we'll, we can't put it on the podcast itself-

John Fogerty 2:00:01 Oh

Joe Rogan 2:00:01 ... or we'll get flagged, but we can listen to it right now.

John Fogerty 2:00:03 Oh, you mean you can't, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:00:04 And then we'll just cut that part out.

John Fogerty 2:00:05 [music] That was the musical scale right there.

Joe Rogan 2:00:08 Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:00:09 What's, what is that? I took so much out of that. But anyway, he was... Look, the Rumble, it's the song. Who's the guy? Link Wray. Oh, God, that's so cool. And when you saw him, black leather jacket, skinny as a rail, probably had a c- [laughs] You know?

Joe Rogan 2:00:25 Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:00:25 He, probably a motorcycle. [laughs] I mean, it was the entire thing in one little two and a half minute song.

Joe Rogan 2:00:32 Wow. Look at him there. God, does he look cool.

John Fogerty 2:00:34 Yeah, he's a little older there, but it's, yeah, he's bad.

Joe Rogan 2:00:40 Wow.

John Fogerty 2:00:40 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:00:41 He looks cool as hell.

John Fogerty 2:00:43 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:00:43 Yeah. It's, uh, it's always fascinating to me, um, where artists had, like, one incredible song and then never made it. Like, and you'll find out about that song, and you go, "This is incredible. How did this guy never make it? How am I..." Do you know who Johnny Thunder is?

John Fogerty 2:01:02 I've heard the name.

Joe Rogan 2:01:03 Okay. Play I'm Alive for him. There's a song that my friend Brian Simpson told me about, God, it must've been, like, a couple years ago now, and, uh, he played it for us in the Mothership, the comedy club, the green room. And he goes, "You're gonna love this song." And I went, "Who is this?" We gotta figure out who it was. It's a song from 1969 by this guy Johnny Thunder.

John Fogerty 2:01:25 '69?

Joe Rogan 2:01:26 1969.

John Fogerty 2:01:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:28 And it's fucking incredible.

John Fogerty 2:01:29 Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:01:29 It's such a good song, and I'm like, "This," uh, if, if I didn't know any better, I'm like, "Well, this guy must've been a huge star." Like, if... I know, but if I heard that and someone said, "This guy's a huge star. Have you heard this song?" I'd be like, "Oh my God, it sounds like a huge star." Like, this guy's fantastic. Listen to this. Listen to this. [music] How good is that?

John Fogerty 2:01:48 It's great.

Joe Rogan 2:01:49 How good is that?

John Fogerty 2:01:50 Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:01:50 That song is phenomenal, right?

John Fogerty 2:01:52 Yeah. Did he ever, like, under a different name or anything have-

Joe Rogan 2:01:55 Nope. Nope.

John Fogerty 2:01:56 Oh my goodness.

Joe Rogan 2:01:56 Nope.

John Fogerty 2:01:58 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:01:59 Isn't that crazy?

John Fogerty 2:02:00 Well, you, it-

Joe Rogan 2:02:00 Now, we started playing that song

John Fogerty 2:02:01 ... you know, the attitude's great. He's saying a lot of great stuff.

Joe Rogan 2:02:04 It's incredible.

John Fogerty 2:02:04 The name's great.

Joe Rogan 2:02:05 It's incredible.

John Fogerty 2:02:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:02:06 The s- the voice is incredible.

John Fogerty 2:02:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:02:08 The sound's incredible. We played that song on the podcast in, a, a couple years ago, and now the song's in commercials and all these different things.

John Fogerty 2:02:15 Oh, is that true?

Joe Rogan 2:02:16 Yeah. Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:02:16 Oh, cool.

Joe Rogan 2:02:17 But he's dead now. He's dead.

John Fogerty 2:02:18 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:02:19 He, he died, I think he died in-2019 or something like that?

John Fogerty 2:02:23 He died in 2024.

Joe Rogan 2:02:25 2024? Wow.

John Fogerty 2:02:26 Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan 2:02:27 So he probably died, like, right after we discovered him.

John Fogerty 2:02:30 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:02:31 Isn't that crazy?

John Fogerty 2:02:32 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:02:33 Isn't that crazy?

John Fogerty 2:02:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:02:35 I mean, you hear that, you're like, "How did that guy not be one of the biggest artists in the world?"

John Fogerty 2:02:41 Or at least have that song-

Joe Rogan 2:02:43 Right

John Fogerty 2:02:43 ... be a big thing.

Joe Rogan 2:02:44 That song wasn't even a big hit.

John Fogerty 2:02:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:02:46 It's crazy. It's, it, just, you realize the, the slippery nature of success, especially with art. Like, sometimes guys just [snap] catch lightning.

John Fogerty 2:03:01 Yep.

Joe Rogan 2:03:01 They got that one.

John Fogerty 2:03:02 Yep.

Joe Rogan 2:03:03 And that's it.

John Fogerty 2:03:04 I be... You know, I think, uh, any artist that's been around a while-

Joe Rogan 2:03:08 He had another hit. He had another hit?

Speaker 2:03:08 Yeah, that was his biggest hit.

Joe Rogan 2:03:09 "Loop-de-Loop."

John Fogerty 2:03:11 Oh, I know that song.

Joe Rogan 2:03:12 Oh. Johnny Thunder featuring The Bobbettes.

John Fogerty 2:03:15 When did, when did this come out?

Joe Rogan 2:03:16 That's 1963.

Speaker 2:03:18 Reached number four.

John Fogerty 2:03:19 Oh.

Joe Rogan 2:03:19 Wow.

John Fogerty 2:03:19 That's the song I k- I, I know that one.

Joe Rogan 2:03:22 Wow.

John Fogerty 2:03:22 I didn't know who the na- uh, the name. « Here we go loop-de-loop. »

Joe Rogan 2:03:27 Isn't that crazy?

John Fogerty 2:03:28 « Here we go loop-de-da. »

Joe Rogan 2:03:28 That song was Johnny Thunder's only top 40 hit. That's incredible.

John Fogerty 2:03:32 How high did it say it got?

Joe Rogan 2:03:35 It said number four. Number four on the US pop charts.

Speaker 2:03:37 Six.

John Fogerty 2:03:37 Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:03:38 Number six US R&B charts. Wow. And the, the album, uh, in Canada, it reached number 14 two separate weeks. It's incredible because if you hear that other song, like, that other song is... That should be gigantic. "I'm Alive-"

John Fogerty 2:03:55 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:03:55 ... should be a huge hit.

John Fogerty 2:03:57 Right. Meaning-

Joe Rogan 2:03:58 It's weird

John Fogerty 2:03:58 ... a statement of, you know, it's like, "I'm a man," or something, you know?

Joe Rogan 2:04:01 I played that-

John Fogerty 2:04:02 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:04:02 ... for so many musicians, and they listened to it, and they'd never heard it before.

John Fogerty 2:04:06 Right. I never heard it.

Joe Rogan 2:04:06 And so many guys are like, "Oh. Oh my God." You hear, like, you hear 'em hit, like, "Oh, baby." It just cracks.

John Fogerty 2:04:13 Man.

Joe Rogan 2:04:14 It's a perfect song. It's an amazing song. But it's like the slippery nature of art, you know? It's just like sometimes-

John Fogerty 2:04:22 Yeah, so why, why would something that good just... You know, there's something [laughs] that-

Joe Rogan 2:04:29 I don't know

John Fogerty 2:04:29 ... the, the week it came out was 9/11 or something. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:04:33 No. [laughs] Well, you know what my fear is? My fear is that he got trapped up in the music business sen- side of it.

John Fogerty 2:04:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:41 And they just decided not to promote him or something.

John Fogerty 2:04:43 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:04:44 They, you know, he ran afoul with the music company or something. I mean, it just doesn't make sense that a guy who could make a song that good--

John Fogerty 2:04:51 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:04:51 ... if you can make that song that good, you can make a ton of songs. You just need the-

John Fogerty 2:04:55 You would think so.

Joe Rogan 2:04:55 Yeah. You just need the right people with you and the-

John Fogerty 2:04:57 Yeah, 'cause he had the voice-

Joe Rogan 2:04:58 He had everything

John Fogerty 2:04:58 ... so he could always do that. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:59 The voice, the sound, the, the, the, the soul to his, his music, the way he sang. You know, that part, "I'm a man."

John Fogerty 2:05:07 Yeah. Hey.

Joe Rogan 2:05:08 Oh my God, it's so good. It's so good. It just... It's, it is, it's a very difficult thing to capture, and even capturing it only once doesn't ensure a long career of getting it right, of finding that thing.

John Fogerty 2:05:29 Well, yeah, we were talking about that a little bit a while ago. You know, that, that first blush when you realize you can do it-

Joe Rogan 2:05:38 Yeah

John Fogerty 2:05:38 ... 'cause you've never done it before.

Joe Rogan 2:05:40 Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:05:40 You know, when you cross that particular threshold, that's an, that's an amazing transformation, I guess, in a, in a artist', uh, the way he grows. Because, uh, u- until you actually do it, it's all just a dream, you know? Um, I mean, I, I had grown up writing songs. They, you know, they weren't great songs. I mean, I kinda knew it. I s- I was watching all the people I loved. I'm talking about f- from being four or five years old a- all the way through growing up. And you're, l- you know, things happen, Elvis and, uh, Motown and Beatles, and all these things happen, and th- wow, you really like all that. And meanwhile, you're having the dream of being in music somehow. Um, but you'd never really know if you're gonna be able to do that or not.

Joe Rogan 2:06:38 Right.

John Fogerty 2:06:39 I mean, this, this sorta spreads out in a lot of strange ways in entertainment. I mean, I, I, m- I kind of make it similar to what, what if you're a baseball player, and you dream of growing up and getting to the major leagues, right? And s- somebody becomes Willie Mays.

Joe Rogan 2:07:02 Right.

John Fogerty 2:07:03 And a lot of people don't. [laughs] You know? And there's... You just don't know. There's that realization, I mean, for Willie, actually he was, it was slow, if you read about him. Him and Durocher were kinda, you know, Durocher could see it, and Willie's kinda, yeah. Um, s- so if you're lucky enough and you become Willie Mays, I mean, God bless you, right? But there is that, for most of us, that moment that, "Well, sorry kid, you know, you, you just, you're average, but we don't need average." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:07:40 Right.

John Fogerty 2:07:40 Right?

Joe Rogan 2:07:41 That's right.

John Fogerty 2:07:41 And that just happens a lot. Uh, in music, there was people like me. Well, when, when the four people that became Creedence sort of got together in, uh, 1967, after I got off active duty, and we s- "Okay, we're gonna go for broke." "Yeah, okay, we'll have a democracy." "Yeah, we'll vote on everything." "Yeah, we'll all write songs and everything." "Right." Okay. One of the things that happened going along those lines, I would show up at the rehearsal, you know, 'cause we, at that point, we started, we said, "We gotta do this all the time if we're ever gonna get any good." So every day during the week, we'd meet at noonOr actually a little before that, maybe 11:00, and sit and talk, and then noon was rehearsal time. Um, and so I'd say, "Okay, anybody got any songs?" And people started looking down. "Yeah. All right, well, look, I got something," and we'd work on my song, right? I mean, we're just sort of getting organized. I've just come off active duty. I've been away from the world, you might say. Uh, then next day, same thing, you know, at home, I'd work on some stuff. "Anybody got any songs?" Uh, kind of every- I mean, it was the weirdest quiet. A week later, you know, same thing. And finally I just said, "Well, look, I've been..." You know, I began to feel this thing inside that I gotta push. I mean, I got... I, I think I can do this. And so eventually I g- I got the idea, the songs I'm working on aren't quite there. How about if we take an old song a-and I'll just trick it up, like psychedelicize it? Because I, I'll pick a song I already know is good. It's got good stuff in it, and that's what I did with Suzie Q. I just kind of really arranged it and had all this cool stuff going on. It wasn't something I wrote. It kind of relieved me of the pressure of having to do that and was able to just, hey, just the, that blank page turned into a different rainbow full of all... Nobody can fault me 'cause it's not my song, right?

Joe Rogan 2:10:11 Right.

John Fogerty 2:10:11 Did all this great stuff, this cool musical stuff to it. Um, it got, it... The whole point was to get that tape on a local underground station that was actually playing unpublished tapes, you know, uh, uh, by certain bands. The most famous one you ever heard about w- there was a tape of Janis Joplin singing Hesitation Blues, and Jorma's playing guitar, but in the background, somebody's typing their term paper. [chuckles] It was done in their kitchen, right?

Joe Rogan 2:10:45 [laughs]

John Fogerty 2:10:46 And so they were-- It was just sort of a, a, a amateur, unauthorized thing, but they played it on this one station. It became a hit on that station. People requested it. There were a couple other bands that had tapes like that.

Joe Rogan 2:10:58 And you could hear the typewriter in the background?

John Fogerty 2:11:00 Yeah, going [imitates typing] .

Joe Rogan 2:11:02 [laughs]

John Fogerty 2:11:02 Yeah, yeah. She's singing Hesitation Blues.

Joe Rogan 2:11:05 Wow.

John Fogerty 2:11:05 Um, so that became the l-let's do that. Let's do an end run around record companies and just bring the thing straight to the station. Well, they loved Suzie Q. They started playing it probably eight times a day. Each different disc jockey would play it. It's eight minutes and twenty seconds long or whatever, right? And that was really the true beginning. Um, finished that album. My songwriting was, mm, you know, wasn't great. It was competent. But somewhere right after, uh, the album came out... Oh, uh, I wanted to make that point. That everybody had ample opportunity to write a song, and it just kinda wasn't coming. I would show up at the, at the rehearsals, "Well, anybody got a song?" You know, and, and everybody got real quiet. And so I said, "Well, look, okay, let's work on this." And I, I began to realize inside that it was gonna be up to me. It wasn't, it wasn't I wanna control everything. It was, I gotta start rowing this boat, or we're [chuckles] gonna, we're gonna sink in the middle of the ocean. So I started pushing myself harder and harder. Um, the first album comes out on my birthday, uh, 1968. I'm 23 years old, and within, sometime shortly after that, I can't really pin down the... I'm still in the Army, right? But I'm working on getting released, getting out. Somewhere, I think in June or July, I don't exactly know, my honorable discharge shows up. I open this package that's been sitting there for a couple days because it said, "Official government business." Who's that for? And I find out it was for me. It was, uh, you know, our apartment house. I'm overjoyed. I mean, this is the biggest struggle, has been, of my life. Wow. Wow. Wow. I turn a little cartwheel on the lawn 'cause I wanna remember that I turned a cartwheel, and ran in the house and picked up my guitar and started playing these chords that are somewhat like Beethoven. [singing] Oh. I start strumming this beat. I start hearing this chorus. See, left the... The first thing I said was, "Left a good job in the city." Well, that was getting out of the Army. Wow. Working for the man every night and day. Wow. What is this? Eventually, I a-arrive at this thing where I say, "Rolling, rolling." Oh, I like that. "Rolling, uh, rolling on the river." It's... That's starting to be beyond me.

Joe Rogan 2:14:25 Right.

John Fogerty 2:14:25 Out of me, right? I look in my book 'cause I said, "What is this thing about? What am I doing here?" The very first thing I had written in my little-Book of song titles was Proud Mary. It's the actual first line-

Joe Rogan 2:14:41 Ah

John Fogerty 2:14:41 ... first thing. I looked at that and I said, "Wow, this is about... Proud Mary's a riverboat. This is a, a boat named Proud Mary. That's what we're doing here," and I finished the song. Right? I mean, it was kind of Mark Twain, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:15:00 Yeah

John Fogerty 2:15:01 ... kinda Jimmy Stewart, Gary Cooper, you know? Uh, had a little bit of kinda gospel flavor and the Old South in it. I said, "Wow." When I got done, which was about a hour, I was about a hour from when I'd opened my honorable discharge, I'm actually holding the, the li- little yellow tablet I'd been writing on. I said, "John, you've written a classic." I realized that this song was w- I had evolved. It was way better than anything I'd ever done before, you know? And so those meetings I'd been having, going to see the band, and, "Well, has anybody got anything?" And no one ever did, and I'd show my little piece of something I was working on. That kinda led, how can I say it, to the confidence to do something really great by just doing it, right? And the knowledge, I mean, I had, I was self-aware. I'm [laughs] looking at this thing, Proud Mary, and it's, it's got Americana in it-

Joe Rogan 2:16:10 Yeah

John Fogerty 2:16:10 ... although I don't think I had a word then. It's got, I knew it was Mark Twain and the river and-

Joe Rogan 2:16:16 Right

John Fogerty 2:16:16 ... all this soulful stuff. I said, "Wow, this for sure is the best thing I'd ever done." I knew it was a great song [laughs] and the next re- God, I hope I get to do this again.

Joe Rogan 2:16:32 [laughs]

John Fogerty 2:16:33 Because you just don't know.

Joe Rogan 2:16:34 Right.

John Fogerty 2:16:35 Right?

Joe Rogan 2:16:35 Right.

John Fogerty 2:16:36 But that, that was how that came about.

Joe Rogan 2:16:38 'Cause it came to you like a bolt of lightning and inspiration-

John Fogerty 2:16:40 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:16:40 ... charged up from the discharge.

John Fogerty 2:16:42 Yep. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:16:44 Right.

John Fogerty 2:16:45 Yeah. But it, but yes, and, and something led me to be better than I was.

Joe Rogan 2:16:51 Wow.

John Fogerty 2:16:51 I mean, I, I think what the, my point was, you know, it was kind of the Willie Mays thing. I never knew if I would be able to do that or not, right?

Joe Rogan 2:17:00 Right.

John Fogerty 2:17:01 You, you're going along, you're just plunking along clubs, whatever, learning a chord here and there, learning something off a record, ho- hoping you have a career in music 'cause you like music. Me, I, because my mother had focused, had kind of pointed out songwriters, um, it put me in that realm. It put, it, it, it made me at least realize that that was one of the functions of music. That's, that's another story I could tell you. I don't know if you wanna [laughs] hear that.

Joe Rogan 2:17:38 I wanna hear every story. That, that, that's a g- that's a fantastic story, though, because th- th- that you just getting that notice that you've been relieved and you're no longer in active duty, you've got an honorable discharge, you're free, and then the inspiration comes, and you write your greatest song of all time like that.

John Fogerty 2:17:59 Yep.

Joe Rogan 2:18:00 Or at least the greatest song to that moment, and realize y- this can be, this can happen.

John Fogerty 2:18:06 Yep.

Joe Rogan 2:18:06 You really have it. You really have it, 'cause you don't know until you try, and when you-

John Fogerty 2:18:10 You don't know till it happens.

Joe Rogan 2:18:12 Yeah. You don't know.

John Fogerty 2:18:13 You know, until Willie Mays one day did something on the field-

Joe Rogan 2:18:17 Right

John Fogerty 2:18:17 ... he didn't know.

Joe Rogan 2:18:18 Right.

John Fogerty 2:18:19 And there was a point I, as I alluded to, I've read about, uh, Durocher knew when he saw him, and Willie wasn't so sure yet. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:18:27 Yeah. That's crazy. That's crazy. Bad Moon Rising is another great, fantastic song, another huge favorite of mine, but, uh, a- also because it's in one of my all-time favorite movies, An American Werewolf in London.

John Fogerty 2:18:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:18:41 That scene-

John Fogerty 2:18:42 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:18:42 ... where that song's, that must have been cool to have that song play at that movie.

John Fogerty 2:18:48 It's very cool to me now. At the, I don't even know if I saw the movie at the time it came out. Um, that was during the time I was still, you know, a- a- away from music and kinda angry and-

Joe Rogan 2:19:04 Oh

John Fogerty 2:19:04 ... pissed off about my situation, so when something would get done with my music, it kinda made me mad, 'cause nobody asked me. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:19:13 Oh, wow. Oh, really?

John Fogerty 2:19:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:19:14 Oh, right, because you didn't have the rights to it.

John Fogerty 2:19:16 Yep.

Joe Rogan 2:19:16 Oh, wow. Still, phenomenal song. Phenomenal song. Did, d- so did you write all the songs?

John Fogerty 2:19:24 I wrote all the songs from Creedence-

Joe Rogan 2:19:27 Wow

John Fogerty 2:19:27 ... until the, the last album, the seventh album, that was basically a result of the guys saying, "We wanna..." You know, there was a big band meeting, "We wanna write the songs, and we demand that we get to write the songs and sing the songs and make up our own musical parts."

Joe Rogan 2:19:45 So they got resentful.

John Fogerty 2:19:46 And I was then g- been resisting that, because I just, I thought it was gonna really, I, I literally thought it would be career suicide. I'd, you know, change everything now.

Joe Rogan 2:19:58 Right.

John Fogerty 2:19:58 Yeah, 'cause, uh, well, here's, here's another part of it. You're, you're struggling in, you know, the, the early d- days of your career and, uh, all your life getting to that point. You're trying to figure out what works.

Joe Rogan 2:20:10 Right.

John Fogerty 2:20:11 Right? I mean, it's just everyone goes through that, 'cause you, uh, clearly you don't know what works yet. I haven't, haven't figured it out, and one day when some stuff starts happening, and well, that's how you do it. H- this and this and this. This works.

Joe Rogan 2:20:24 Right.

John Fogerty 2:20:24 And I, I got very good at that and-

Joe Rogan 2:20:26 And you had put in that work, and they hadn't, so they weren't really contributing, and I-

John Fogerty 2:20:32 Right

Joe Rogan 2:20:32 ... they must have gotten resentful that you were the one who wrote all these big hits, and eventually they're like, "We wanna try. We're Creedence too."

John Fogerty 2:20:39 Well, especially because two of them had never written a song in their life.

Joe Rogan 2:20:43 Oh, that's crazy. And then they wanted to write a song for Creedence-

John Fogerty 2:20:47 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:20:47 ... while Creedence was huge.

John Fogerty 2:20:49 Yeah. I mean, there's a bit of, what's the word, balderdash into that.

Joe Rogan 2:20:55 Mm-hmm.

John Fogerty 2:20:56 I mean, it's, wow. But maybe you should, you know, rehearse a little [laughs] first.

Joe Rogan 2:21:01 That's crazy.

John Fogerty 2:21:01 I mean, I've been writing songs since I was eight. Not that they were good.

Joe Rogan 2:21:05 They could've jumped in, they could've jumped in when, in the beginning.

John Fogerty 2:21:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:21:09 When you were writing all the songs and they weren't coming up with anything. If they did, you probably would've did their songs as well, if they went on a similar path to you.

John Fogerty 2:21:16 Oh, of course. It would've been like, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:21:18 Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:21:18 Um, my songs weren't that good at that time, but they were, how can I say? They were maybe better than average. They weren't great songs yet. They were, they were album songs or something, right?

Joe Rogan 2:21:32 Right.

John Fogerty 2:21:33 But what I'm getting at is that the other guys were, there was no songs.

Joe Rogan 2:21:36 [laughs]

John Fogerty 2:21:36 So, um, that's, that's that thing in... I, I keep using the mully mays, uh, you know, metaphor, if that's what it is. Uh, you know, that example. At, at some point, you're, you're, you are working with the elements in the field that you love, and then you realize how to put it together and to make it happen, if you're lucky. And then comes the time when you actually make something that's good, right? And that, I mean, but that... Um, I can't think of anyone that the first song they ever wrote, boom, was, uh, "Ave Maria" or something, you know? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:22:19 Right. Right.

John Fogerty 2:22:20 I mean, it's, you know. So, um, I, I just thought it was a journey, and y- I mean, I have been on the journey myself and seen it come, but I think now I look at it, I was, excuse me, I was probably destined, you know. It was what I loved, and that was what was calling me.

Joe Rogan 2:22:39 Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:22:40 I mean, I... That, that was my, my motivation the whole time, since I was a child. I just loved it and wanted to do that, whatever it was.

Joe Rogan 2:22:52 Well, that's why it worked.

John Fogerty 2:22:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:22:54 You put in the work, and you loved it. And you worked at it, and you tried to get it better, and you also got inspiration. You were also open to that inspiration.

John Fogerty 2:23:03 I-

Joe Rogan 2:23:03 It's just funny that the band members didn't contribute until the seventh album, and they wanted to jump in. [laughs] It's kinda crazy, but understandable. I mean, it's human nature to be resentful, especially if you've got a, a huge band and one guy is the lead singer, and that guy's also writing all the songs.

John Fogerty 2:23:23 Yeah. I, well, I walked around for, uh, many months, you know, mulling over this whole thing. 'Cause right after that meeting, shortly after that, my brother Tom decided... He just left. He, uh, you know, even though I kind of gave in to all the demands. "Okay, we'll do it that..." I could see that the band was gonna disintegrate unless I acquiesced, right? I mean, it was, up until then, I had managed to keep it, "Don't do that. Don't do that. [laughs] It's gonna wreck us." Uh, so when I agreed, I mean, it was literally a couple months later, Tom left, and so now, oh, God, what's gonna happen now? So I, I didn't know if I was just gonna go, "Nah," call it quits or... The, the image in my mind was of when Elvis got taken by the Colonel, just kind of pulled out of the other guys, and they left him in a lurch, you might say. That's the way it looked to me.

Joe Rogan 2:24:23 Right.

John Fogerty 2:24:24 It's like, you know, Elvis got all new guys and just kinda... And, and it was readily apparent because I had already seen what the, Elvis' comeback special, the, the part where they sat around in a circle and did the old songs, and he had the old guys, Scotty and, uh, Bill, and, or I, maybe Bill was gone by then, but, um, JD Fontana, or D- JD Fontana. Um, and it was just apparent that that was the best thing. Everybody loved that part of his special. Most people, they just for- forget that anything else was on that thing other than Elvis singing those songs. And I, that sort of was in the back of my... Well, maybe they deserve a shot. Maybe they should, you know, maybe I should do this. And so that's kind of why I went forward with it. It, it almost like flipping a coin, like, well, the, the odds. I, I think my own sense tells me this isn't gonna work, but maybe they deserve a chance, so I kinda went at it blindly that way. Like the-

Joe Rogan 2:25:30 What was it like in the studio when they started bringing the songs? Like...

John Fogerty 2:25:35 [laughs] Well, well that's-

Joe Rogan 2:25:36 [laughs]

John Fogerty 2:25:36 I mean, that's it. I mean, everyone can hear that. All of us can... You know, you just... It, the album's called Mardi Gras, and in the press, it was murdered. You know, uh, Rolling Stone said, "This is the worst album ever made by a major group."

Joe Rogan 2:25:54 [gasps]

John Fogerty 2:25:55 And I read that, and I said, "I know." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:25:58 [laughs]

John Fogerty 2:25:58 I mean, I literally, I felt that. It wasn't like I was trying to defend it. It was, you know, it was just...

Joe Rogan 2:26:06 How did the band react to that?

John Fogerty 2:26:09 Here's the deal. Instead of going, "Yeah, that was a mistake," instead they said, "He made me do it." And so, yeah. They said I made them do it, whereas it was their idea, of course. I, I didn't wanna do that. Um-

Joe Rogan 2:26:28 [laughs]

John Fogerty 2:26:30 And after that, I just, you know... I think we did a, we did a tour. Oh, right. We did a tour, um-One by one, their songs dropped out of the set, the songs that they had done on Mardi Gras. The other two guys, yeah, "I don't want to sing that anymore." And so we, of course, went back to Proud Mary and Fortunate Son and all that. And there was a point that I could tell that the fans were kind of upset with this whole premise. And so I-

Joe Rogan 2:27:07 Which whole premise? What, what, in what way?

John Fogerty 2:27:09 Of them singing songs and kind of struggling along with equal, equal time for everybody.

Joe Rogan 2:27:16 Oh, I see. Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:27:17 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:27:18 Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:27:18 And so finally it was time to-- I, there, there wasn't enough-- there wasn't any way to put it back together that I could see.

Joe Rogan 2:27:28 Right.

John Fogerty 2:27:28 It was, it was beyond me. Now, in later, later, later years that I, you know, I'm a much older guy. I mean, there were, you know, there's some decisions that I made. One of them was the decision to not be in the movie Woodstock. They sent a tape of the band doing Bad Moon Rising. It was okay. But what had happened at Woodstock was the Grateful Dead was on before us. Grateful Dead had all taken LSD.

Joe Rogan 2:28:04 [laughs]

John Fogerty 2:28:04 It's-- we were supposed to be on at eight o'clock, but it's now two o'clock, two thirty in the morning by the time we get... Grateful Dead goes on, kind of loses their way.

Joe Rogan 2:28:16 Ugh. [laughs]

John Fogerty 2:28:17 But they're on stage for an hour and a half or something with nothing going on. So that poor audience that's been through rain and all the rest and muddy, and they just, they just crashed. A half a million strong, just boom, you know. And that's what I get, right?

Joe Rogan 2:28:33 Oh.

John Fogerty 2:28:33 We come running out on stage, and eh, eh, we playing a few songs, and all I see is sleeping people.

Joe Rogan 2:28:40 [laughs]

John Fogerty 2:28:41 And eventually, the last, I think, twenty minutes of our set finally got them up. We warmed them up for Janis. That's the way I always say it. You know, they got going again. But, uh, that was a, that was a struggle all through that. So I get sent-- And it was a, it was a bad taste in my mouth about that evening because everybody-- we'd gone to so much trouble, and we-- at that moment, we were certainly the number one band in the US and probably on our way to being number one in the world. And so I just, you know, here's this kind of ordinary tape of Bad Moon, and I just thought, "I don't know, this doesn't help us. This doesn't further us at all. Um, nah, I'm going to pass." And by the way, the Grateful Dead is not in Woodstock either. I didn't really recog- didn't see that until about a year ago. You know, yeah, me, I just assumed the Grateful Dead was in Woodstock, right? Um-

Joe Rogan 2:29:40 Well, it's probably unusable.

John Fogerty 2:29:41 So if there'd been an older guy around us, a manager that was, like, fifty instead of me with my bad taste about the evening, the older guy might have said, "Hey, you know, your version of Suzie Q live, even though those people were sleeping, the band was cooking. You know, you guys played good. You can't hardly see anything anyway, the crappy old..." He said, "But that recording's good. Maybe we should demand that, look, you put us in the movie and give us eight minutes, not two minutes." Or by then, it was probably fifteen minutes long [laughs] , you know. Um, I think that was a decision that could probably-- I could reassess, you know, if it, if it was someone else. But that's not what was on my plate at the time. I was only offered Bad Moon. I ju- you know, and at the time, I felt I was right because we went on and did great. And by the way [laughs] , the band broke up before Woodstock came out anyhow. So it kind of was a mute point, you know.

Joe Rogan 2:30:47 Did it feel better for you when you were on your own? Did, did you like that better? Where you, it was just the John Fogerty Band. You didn't have to have all those guys and all the bullshit.

John Fogerty 2:30:59 Well, you're asking a q- you know, we're all human beings, and we've got a lot of years behind us. Um, if you're asking me right now, yeah, because I play in a band with my sons.

Joe Rogan 2:31:13 Oh, that's awesome.

John Fogerty 2:31:14 You know? And yep.

Joe Rogan 2:31:15 That's awesome.

John Fogerty 2:31:16 And I don't know, there might be a picture of that somewhere. Um, s- and so-- and all the other guys in the band are their age.

Joe Rogan 2:31:28 Oh, wow.

John Fogerty 2:31:29 And so it-- how can I say it? You don't, you don't have a whole bunch of people trying to prove something like their record deal or their-

Joe Rogan 2:31:41 Right

John Fogerty 2:31:41 ... you know. Because you asked the question, kind of caught me by surprise. After C- well, after Creedence, I didn't play for a long time.

Joe Rogan 2:31:50 How long?

John Fogerty 2:31:50 But the first band-- Huh?

Joe Rogan 2:31:52 How long? How long did you not play for?

John Fogerty 2:31:55 I went on tour in '86 with, uh, a, a bunch of h-hired hands, they call it, right? Studio guys. And that was, that was, it, it was behind-- At number one, I didn't play any Creedence-era songs.

Joe Rogan 2:32:13 Oh.

John Fogerty 2:32:13 I was so mad at my situation, I just played new songs. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:32:20 Wow.

John Fogerty 2:32:22 There everyone-- on the left, that's Shane. That's me. That's my son, Tyler. That's my daughter, Kelsey. And then that's Jesse Wilson back there, our bass player.

Joe Rogan 2:32:33 That's awesome.

John Fogerty 2:32:34 And so, um, yeah. And there's a-- Right there, that might be a moment in Chugwin where we all do a riff together and all that, and it's just so cool to all be standing there.

Joe Rogan 2:32:46 That's amazing.

John Fogerty 2:32:47 So yeah. Um-I mean, you know, don't get me wrong, the beginnings of Creedence was magical and wonderful, right? I mean, it re- it truly-- look, it's what you waited and planned for your whole life. Um, and it stayed that way for about a year, I think, and then other stuff that I never understood. I, I mean, it was beyond... It was unpleasant, and I didn't understand why, right? So after that, it, it was, it was, that was difficult. Then when I first started playing again, um, in '86, and also, and much more in, uh, '97 after Blue Moon Swamp came out, and I had a series of bands that were, how can I say, trying to put people together, parts from here and there and there. So it kinda never really was one solidified thing. And you'll, you would find that a lot of people had personal agendas, you might say. They, you know, they were working on their own career and all that, and there was sort of [laughs] , believe it or not, even at that level, different jealousies and things.

Joe Rogan 2:34:02 Mm.

John Fogerty 2:34:02 Oh, again, there I was. I could, I could sense it sometimes. People were jealous. Uh, you know, and oh my God, when you see that picture, there's no jealous.

Joe Rogan 2:34:12 Right.

John Fogerty 2:34:12 See?

Joe Rogan 2:34:13 Right.

John Fogerty 2:34:13 I mean, this is really fun for me now.

Joe Rogan 2:34:15 Well, that is the problem with so many bands is the conflicting personalities. It's always a miracle to me that any band stays together, and that they can stay together like The Stones, where they're still touring now after all these years.

John Fogerty 2:34:29 The Stones are a, a lesson in how everyone should be, 'cause we've all heard the stories about The Stones. We know there's problems here and there and everywhere and all that, yet they rose above that.

Joe Rogan 2:34:43 Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:34:43 They just decided that, "You know what? We're, oh, yeah, okay. Well, I don't like that guy over there tonight-

Joe Rogan 2:34:49 Yeah

John Fogerty 2:34:49 ... but I'm just gonna do this." And they're all brothers when they're out there doing that.

Joe Rogan 2:34:54 Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:34:54 And that's great.

Joe Rogan 2:34:55 Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:34:56 You know, there's, I mean, there's times, let's say, in war or whatever, where you have to kind of subjugate your personal stuff for the greater good.

Joe Rogan 2:35:06 Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:35:06 Right? And that, kinda what they do, The Stones, and that, God bless 'em. You know, I just think-

Joe Rogan 2:35:11 I just think the thing is everybody wants to be the man.

John Fogerty 2:35:14 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:35:14 And when you got so many egos and there's one guy, like you, who's writing all the songs, all these other people, they're just like, they feel less, you know? And they get resentful.

John Fogerty 2:35:25 Yep. I think that's pretty normal human nature, and then that has to be dealt with.

Joe Rogan 2:35:33 Yeah. Sometimes you can't, though. You know? Some people can't be reasoned with. Some people just are, are, they're not rational. They see things in a distorted lens, especially if they're not the people that created everything, but yet they've been along for the ride, and they don't feel like they're getting what they deserve.

John Fogerty 2:35:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:35:51 That's what it seems like.

John Fogerty 2:35:51 I wanted to tell you a story about how I got into this in the first place.

Joe Rogan 2:35:55 Okay.

John Fogerty 2:35:56 Um, I told you about my mom noticing, uh, the music coming out of me. One day she brought me home from nursery school, where she was one of the helper teachers, I guess, one of the moms, you know, of the staff. She brought me home and sat me down on a little chair. It was, uh, now I look back, it was a little ceremony. She had a little yellow record, a kid's record, and it, basically what she did was she played both sides of this little record. One side was Oh! Susanna, and the other side was Camptown Races. Doo-dah, doo-dah, you know, that one. And then she asked me, "Well, do you like this music?" I said, "Yeah, Mom, these are cool songs," or whatever a kid says, right? "I really like these." She says, "Well, I'm gonna play 'em again, Johnny." She plays both songs, and she says, "Do you know that Stephen Foster is the man that wrote both of these songs?" "What do you mean, Ma?" She said, "Well, Stephen Foster is a real person that wrote this music, and I wanted you to know that these are his wonderful songs and that people do write songs." And then she gave me the record. That kind of became my little possession, right? And I've reflected on that moment in my life for, I mean, I used to tell people, "Why did she do that? What in the world was she thinking," right? And all through the years, uh, with, that I was living at home with my mom, you know, there'd be somebody on TV, "There's Irving Berlin." And I'd go, "Yeah, Mom, hey, he's a songwriter." Or she let me know Hoagy Carmichael was one of her favorites, so he became one of my favorites, right? And of course, on into the rock and roll era, as you notice that The Beatles, Lennon & McCartney, were writing these songs. I mean, it, it just became a, a thing, a part of me, and it all started back there with my mom and Stephen Foster. And number one, he was a great songwriter. So that lilt, that sort of, kind of songwriting, he's also very corny.

Joe Rogan 2:38:14 [laughs]

John Fogerty 2:38:14 [laughs] Now, I mean, that, that voice, that personality certainly became, it, it got contributed and it got lent to me, uh, through the, the records, the recordings, as Stephen didn't make any records, as far as I know. Um, and those songs just sort of b- got infiltered into my personality. I mean, my mom... Uh, put it this way. I, I think I even talked it over with Mom. I, I feel like Stephen Foster could've written Proud Mary. It seems like that territory.

Joe Rogan 2:38:53 Yeah. Wow.

John Fogerty 2:38:55 But-

Joe Rogan 2:38:55 That's awesome

John Fogerty 2:38:56 ... right. The, I don't know what my... My mom was giving me a gift.

Joe Rogan 2:39:00 Yeah.

John Fogerty 2:39:00 You know? And, uh, you, you just never know how powerful those little moments with your kids are, but that, you know, that was a big one for me.

Joe Rogan 2:39:08 That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, listen, John, it's been an honor having you on. Thank you very much. I'm a gigantic fan.

John Fogerty 2:39:15 Thank you, too.

Joe Rogan 2:39:15 So for me, it was a real pleasure to get to talk to you.

John Fogerty 2:39:18 Same here. Great to be here.

Joe Rogan 2:39:19 The story's fantastic. Thank you very much. And, uh, you're on tour. Tell everybody where they can see you.

John Fogerty 2:39:25 Oh, wow. Well, you know, we are the Legacy Tour. You may know I've just re-recorded a lot of my old songs from the Creedence time, and I'm having a ball. We're just all over.

Joe Rogan 2:39:37 Look at that.

John Fogerty 2:39:38 Oh, there you go.

Joe Rogan 2:39:40 Wow. That's awesome.

John Fogerty 2:39:41 That's a picture from back in the day, of course.

Joe Rogan 2:39:43 What a cool album, too. Does it really look like that?

John Fogerty 2:39:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:39:46 Oh, nice.

John Fogerty 2:39:48 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:39:49 That's sick. I love it. Beautiful. Thank you, sir. Really, thank you very much. It was awesome. Bye, everybody. [upbeat rock music]