Joe Rogan Experience #2496 - Julia Mossbridge

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 2:17

   Julia Mossbridge’s work: precognition research and “exceptional” human capacities

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast. Check it out.

   2. SPSpeaker0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] Hello, Julia.

   4. JMJulia Mossbridge0:14

      Hello, Joe.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Pleasure to meet you.

   6. JMJulia Mossbridge0:16

      Yeah, I'm very excited.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      So you said you had questions for me?

   8. JMJulia Mossbridge0:19

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      We can start with your questions.

   10. JMJulia Mossbridge0:20

       Excellent. Um-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       First of all, tell everybody what you do.

   12. JMJulia Mossbridge0:23

       Okay. Let me just change the angle of this.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       Just so f- folks just tuning in right now are gonna like, "Who is this young lady?"

   14. JMJulia Mossbridge0:29

       [laughs] Thank you.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       "What do you do?"

   16. JMJulia Mossbridge0:30

       I'm a year younger than you. [laughs]

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:32

       [laughs] There you go. Then you're young.

   18. JMJulia Mossbridge0:35

       Nice. Um, what do I do? I am... As, I was trained as a scientist, cognitive neuroscience and computer science, and, uh, did some AI stuff, did some stuff with the human brain in terms of trying to understand how time works in the human brain. And then I got really interested in how funky time works in the human brain, like precognition-

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Mm

   20. JMJulia Mossbridge0:58

       ... which is, of course, predicting future events in ways that we don't normally think about.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       That's how I found out about you, yeah.

   22. JMJulia Mossbridge1:04

       That's you, is the Popular Mechanics article.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Yeah, believe so.

   24. JMJulia Mossbridge1:07

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       And then a bunch of other stuff that I looked at.

   26. JMJulia Mossbridge1:09

       And then a bunch of other stuff, yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:10

       Yeah.

   28. JMJulia Mossbridge1:10

       And then I got interested in just the idea of exce- what we call exceptional human performance. So, um, I actually don't think it's that exceptional. I think people have these capacities, and they've been dampened down. And, uh, they're in us, and they can be developed, and some people have them just sort of naturally. I'm a person who has some of them just naturally, not all of them. But there are people all over who have these different gifts, and, and how does that work? And so that became a question that was interesting to me.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:36

       Well, it's always interesting when it's this, this question is asked by an actual scientist. So you approach it by let's, let's try to gather data. Let's try to find out what we can actually show. Because so many people have feelings that there's something else. Like there's, you have intuition, you have some sort of pre-knowledge of events and some feeling of something. You're thinking of someone and they call you. Is that real? You know, that, that kind of stuff has always puzzled people.

   30. JMJulia Mossbridge2:06

       Yeah.
3. 2:17 – 4:00

   Stigma, suppression, and why academia resists psi research

   1. JMJulia Mossbridge2:17

      I agree it's fascinating. I'm not sure it matters. So I mean [laughs] my experience has been that, um, sort of regardless of how much time I spend studying it, and how much I see it, and how much I can test different controls to make sure it's not this, that, or the other thing, and that it really is getting information from the future, or it really is telepathy, um, people still kind of don't, uh, in the science world, tend to just ignore it. Or it actually is actively suppressed. I mean, there are some papers that I've published that just won't get listed in Google Scholar even though they're in peer review journals with other articles that do get listed in Google Scholar. So there's... It's, it's frustrating, and who cares, 'cause it's just an academic complaining. But I'm also not an academic. I also wanna build things. I'm into making stuff. So I got my PhD at these tier one research institutions like Northwestern. Got my master's at UC San Francisco. I did my postdoc at Northwestern, so fancy dancy institutions. Um, so I learned a lot about how to, how to think and how to write and how to do these kind of experiments, and I know what I'm seeing, and I keep seeing it. And other people who study the same stuff keep seeing it. But it is, um, it is inside of me, or there's something inside [laughs] of me that wants to create things with this. Okay, so this is happening. People have these capacities. You know, they're actually useful. What can we do with them? And it turns out you can do a lot with them if you feel like you are allowed to have them, if it doesn't feel like it's verboten.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:52

      Mm.

   3. JMJulia Mossbridge3:52

      If it doesn't feel, like, shameful, which is part of the cultural case.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:55

      Or foolish.

   5. JMJulia Mossbridge3:56

      Or foolish, which is part of the questions I wanted to ask you.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:58

      Okay.

4. 4:00 – 9:01

   Culture shift, the internet, and permission to talk about taboo topics

   1. JMJulia Mossbridge4:00

      So what I notice when you talk with people is you're, [laughs] you're like a, you seem like a tough guy, but you're really sensitive. Like you're an incredible, obviously an incredible listener. And you learn all these things, and you're putting together... Uh, just this is my impression. You're putting together a, um, kind of a map of the world, of like a map of knowledge of the world, through all these different people's eyes. And my question for you is, how do you see culture shifting? Because I think you're really sensitive to it, and I think you're kind of like one of these signal fish that are at the... You notice what's happening in the environment, and you're gonna guide a school of fish accordingly. So do you think that the culture is shifting towards sort of better use of these, I, I guess exceptional or these natural capacities that we already have? Or do you think they're, we're shifting away from it, and we're gonna run away in fear?

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:06

      Hmm. That's a good question. Okay, so I think that because of conversations like the ones that you've had and the ones that I've had, the ones that are available online, I think people get a much deeper understanding of so many different topics and so many different things than has ever been available through whatever you wanna call the mainstream media. And when you have these inherent prejudices in, uh, higher learning, w- whether it's people that don't j- don't wanna be foolish, so they don't wanna entertain certain notions, or they don't want to accept certain things because it goes against things that they've taught and things they've wrote about, we have a problem of ego, and ego becoming a wall to gathering more information or getting a better detailed map of the landscape. And I think, uh, there's way more people that, um, arepondering these ideas and having these conversations and thinking about these things than has ever been before. And, uh, I think that's one of the really beautiful things about the internet. The internet has made much more information available, and many more people are thinking about these things in ways that, you know, if you were in, uh, an environment where your career depended upon you following certain lines and certain narratives, you wouldn't pursue that 'cause that would be detrimental to your own personal interest. Like if you wanted to get ahead in academia, and all of a sudden you're talking about psychics and premonition, and, you know, people are like, "Oh, Julia's a fucking loon." Like, why... You know? But you're courageous, and you see value in these things. And because you can come on here and talk about it instead of just addressing a class or selling a book that's gonna reach a few thousand people, y- we can have a conversation where 10 million people are gonna listen. And so then t- those 10 million people are gonna go to work, and they're gonna tell their friends at work like, "Hey, there's this... You know, you know how that feeling that you get where sometimes you know something's gonna happen and it happens? Like that might be real. And th- there was this lady, she was on The Joe Rogan podcast, and she was talk-" And so that opens up people to this idea that you don't have to worry about being a fool, because that's what a lot of people are worried about. It's wh- th- it was a big hurdle w- talking about aliens, UFOs. Like a- all my life, all my life, I've always been fascinated by UFOs and aliens. But I don't mind being a fool. Like I, I was fascinated by Bigfoot forever. Kind of abandoned that for the most part. But I like weird stuff. I'm interested in it, and I don't... I'm not a person that needs to be taken seriously. It's not my job. I'm literally a comedian. Like you can make fun of me, I'll make fun of me, it's fine. I don't h- it doesn't, my, my future doesn't rely on people taking me seriously. So I think [clears throat] having that ability to have conversations about all kinds of different things has really changed the way the entire world is discussing just reality. Like every- everything about reality, from quantum computing to alien life, to international politics, to the way human beings misrepresent each other purposefully for their own gains. Like what is all this? Like, and why, w- why has it taken so long to have so many discussions about this? S- so I think that's, if I have a purpose in this world, it's like I'm an antenna for that.

   3. JMJulia Mossbridge8:59

      Yeah. I to- I'm just clapping 'cause- [laughs]

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:01

      Oh, right

5. 9:01 – 20:04

   Wonder vs. status games: science, politics, and cult-like team behavior

   1. JMJulia Mossbridge9:01

      ... it's such a great purpose because, you know, the reason I fell in love with science was it's about discovery. It's about not knowing.

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:09

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JMJulia Mossbridge9:10

      It's about being foolish. I had this... Um, I was just thinking today, I had this amazing high school, uh, bio- biology teacher who had us go outside, and he gave us these little note cards, and he said, "On one side of the note card, I want you to write a question about your environment. Look around, you know, at the plants or whatever, pick something, the dirt, whatever, and write a question you think Einstein would ask about this." And then he said, "Okay, now flip it over, and I want you to write a question that like a two-year-old would ask if a two-year-old could, you know, write." And my favorite side was the two-year-old, and at the end he said, "Now, Einstein was more like the two-year-old."

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:44

      Hmm.

   5. JMJulia Mossbridge9:44

      He said, "Einstein was full of wonder and confusion and, um, uncertainty, and he just asked questions and imagined things, and that's how I want you all to learn to be." And I was just like, "Yes." [laughs]

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:57

      Hmm. That's a good teacher.

   7. JMJulia Mossbridge9:58

      That was an amazing teacher. And, and so then I, then I went to graduate school, and I went in the world of academia, and I was like, there's all this pressure to, um, you know, you write your grant, uh, after you're, you've done about three quarters of the work so that as soon as you get the grant, then you can publish the papers that go with the grant. So you're not really discovering anything, you're kind of talking about, "Here's what I already know, but I'm acting like I haven't looked at it yet," or... And there's pressure to, um, follow, as you said, follow the line of thinking, um, for both funding and for your career.

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:31

      Hmm.

   9. JMJulia Mossbridge10:31

      And, you know, I was told very nicely by wonderful people who wanted to support me, um, that if I took the stuff about psychic stuff off my resume, I would have a perfectly good resume for academia. [laughs]

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:43

       [laughs]

   11. JMJulia Mossbridge10:43

       And I was like, "Are you crazy? This is the stuff that's actually interesting. Why would I wanna take it off?"

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:49

       Ah.

   13. JMJulia Mossbridge10:49

       But that's what took me away from academia and made me realize I ha- I had to put one foot in building things, and I could leave a foot in academia, but I had to, I had to build shit because, um, academia is so slow. They can learn something, and then 10 years later they're like, "Do you think it's true?" And then 20 years later they're like, "Maybe we can make something with it." And it's like, "Yeah." But at the same time, you have to be careful. You don't get to just say, "Well, I just know people are psychic and therefore, you know-"

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:15

       Right

   15. JMJulia Mossbridge11:15

       ..."screw it." So, um, so yeah, there's this dance. There's this dance there. But, uh, when you, you were saying this thing about the f- people afraid to be foolish.

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:26

       Yeah.

   17. JMJulia Mossbridge11:27

       I won- I wonder how much it helps me to come from a family of very foolish, eccentric people.

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:34

       I'm sure it helps a lot.

   19. JMJulia Mossbridge11:35

       [laughs] 'Cause I'm not afraid to be foolish.

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:37

       Yeah.

   21. JMJulia Mossbridge11:37

       In fact, I just know that I am. [laughs] And so-

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:39

       Well, I think intelligent, kind people don't mind talking to people that say s- occasionally say foolish things.

   23. JMJulia Mossbridge11:48

       Well-

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:49

       Or things that could be perceived as foolish, because they're willing to take chances and look at these obscure topics and strange phenomenon and just, and not, not worry about the stigma that's attached to these subjects that keeps supposedly intelligent or serious people, people that wanna be considered as serious people-

   25. JMJulia Mossbridge12:10

       Yeah, yeah

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:10

       ... from discussing.

   27. JMJulia Mossbridge12:11

       Well, like when you said the thing about, um, Bigfoot

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:15

       Yeah

   29. JMJulia Mossbridge12:15

       And, and I laughed a little bit.

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:17

       [laughs]
6. 20:04 – 23:35

   Insecurity, listening, and humility: what makes good conversations possible

   1. JMJulia Mossbridge20:04

      But what you said about it's a really male thing, I think it's better said to say, um, it's a really, um, insecure male thing. Or-

   2. JRJoe Rogan20:13

      Yes

   3. JMJulia Mossbridge20:13

      ... an insecure, it's an insecurity thing that happens more probably to men because there's such a standard of you're supposed to be alpha. Everyone's supposed to be alpha.

   4. JRJoe Rogan20:20

      Right.

   5. JMJulia Mossbridge20:21

      And for women, there's not that standard, or you're not, you know.

   6. JRJoe Rogan20:24

      Right.

   7. JMJulia Mossbridge20:24

      And so there's more insecurity 'cause everyone can't be alpha. And what the heck is alpha? And so I feel like I, I, I have a desire for someone who has a sense of their own, like a secure in their own masculinity and their own femininity, which I think you have both. I hope you don't mind me calling you out on that, but- [laughs]

   8. JRJoe Rogan20:47

      [laughs]

   9. JMJulia Mossbridge20:47

      I, [laughs] I know that you like have this reputation of being like a total guy guy, but you have this, I mean, because you're a deep listener, that's already a feminine trait. And so-

   10. JRJoe Rogan20:58

       Is it really?

   11. JMJulia Mossbridge20:58

       Yeah. Oh, yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan21:00

       Okay.

   13. JMJulia Mossbridge21:01

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan21:01

       I didn't know that. I never thought of listening as being masculine or feminine.

   15. JMJulia Mossbridge21:05

       Listening is a deeply feminine trait because you have to be relatively humble to want to listen.

   16. JRJoe Rogan21:10

       And humility is a feminine trait?

   17. JMJulia Mossbridge21:13

       Oh, no, it's just I, I don't, I don't think of it as a feminine trait.

   18. JRJoe Rogan21:15

       Yeah, I don't think listening is a feminine trait.

   19. JMJulia Mossbridge21:18

       Yeah, maybe I'm wrong.

   20. JRJoe Rogan21:19

       I think it's a kind-

   21. JMJulia Mossbridge21:20

       Women are generally better listeners. I mean, that's a-

   22. JRJoe Rogan21:22

       Really?

   23. JMJulia Mossbridge21:23

       Yeah. [laughs] Well, it depends on if you're in a relationship with them or not. [laughs]

   24. JRJoe Rogan21:26

       Depends on who you're talking to. [laughs]

   25. JMJulia Mossbridge21:29

       [laughs]

   26. JRJoe Rogan21:29

       I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's true.

   27. JMJulia Mossbridge21:32

       Let me see where I'm gonna get in that. Where-

   28. JRJoe Rogan21:33

       I think curious people, genuinely curious people are better listeners. That's what I think.

   29. JMJulia Mossbridge21:38

       Hmm.

   30. JRJoe Rogan21:38

       And I don't think women or men are genuinely mo- cur- more curious.
7. 23:35 – 42:14

   Hard things as mental training: martial arts, flow states, and self-transcendence

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:35

      Right. Yeah, that's, yeah, no, you said it better. Yeah. It's really just addressing why you're insecure, and for a lot of men, um, there's, there's just physical insecurity.

   2. JMJulia Mossbridge23:46

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:46

      And the physical insecurity's a real problem. But some of my favorite people are martial artists, and one of the reasons why is 'cause they're the least insecure. Everyone's insecure in some way, but martial artists are dealing with that insecurity literally on a daily basis. So, like, say jujitsu, for instance. If you're training jujitsu, if you go from white belt to black belt, you have to get humiliated thousands of times. [laughs]

   4. JMJulia Mossbridge24:13

      [laughs]

   5. JRJoe Rogan24:13

      You have to get... There's no if, ands, or buts about it. There's, if you're a white belt and you train with a black belt, you're gonna get humiliated. You're, or dominated. You're gonna lose. You have no chance.

   6. JMJulia Mossbridge24:23

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan24:24

      And so by learning over and over and over and over again that you're not really special, and it's really just about the time you put in, and then about getting better, and having, uh, the ability to objectively assess your position, who you are in this, this room of people that are trying to strangle each other, who you are in the world itself.And I think a lot of people don't ever address that, and so they run around trying to posture and pretend they're something they're not, pretend they're smarter than they are, they're more of an expert in a subject. They're the one who should talk. You should listen. You know, there's a lot of that where whenever people say, "Just shut up and listen," I'm like, "That's not... I'm not going to do that, and I don't wanna talk to anybody who wants that-"

   8. JMJulia Mossbridge25:08

      Well, then you also-

   9. JRJoe Rogan25:08

      "... and I don't ever want anybody to do that if I'm talking."

   10. JMJulia Mossbridge25:10

       Well, yeah, because then you're not having a conversation.

   11. JRJoe Rogan25:13

       Exactly.

   12. JMJulia Mossbridge25:13

       That person doesn't exist.

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:14

       Exactly.

   14. JMJulia Mossbridge25:14

       You've just decided that person doesn't exist-

   15. JRJoe Rogan25:16

       Yeah, you-

   16. JMJulia Mossbridge25:16

       ... or they don't matter

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:17

       ... you just- you've d- asserted dominance in the dumbest way possible, which is intellectual.

   18. JMJulia Mossbridge25:22

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan25:22

       Like, y- y- it-

   20. JMJulia Mossbridge25:23

       Yes

   21. JRJoe Rogan25:23

       ... if you... It's like-

   22. JMJulia Mossbridge25:24

       That is the dumbest way possible.

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:26

       Sure.

   24. JMJulia Mossbridge25:26

       And, and the funny thing is culturally we kind of think that it's the smartest way possible.

   25. JRJoe Rogan25:31

       Well, it's just a bunch of fools.

   26. JMJulia Mossbridge25:32

       Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so what, what, so-

   27. JRJoe Rogan25:34

       Fools with a lot of information. [laughs]

   28. JMJulia Mossbridge25:35

       Okay, but let's talk about what, what a better world would be. So in a, in a better world-

   29. JRJoe Rogan25:41

       Yeah

   30. JMJulia Mossbridge25:41

       ... in a better world, if you're gonna assert dominance, you would, like the martial art- what I love about martial art is it- first of all, it's, it's all mental. Almost all mental. And then second, it's very similar to what happens when you go through and get your PhD, right? [laughs] You get beaten down.
8. 42:14 – 49:03

   Julia’s origin story: childhood precognitive dreams and returning to the “time” question

   1. JRJoe Rogan42:14

      Yeah. I'm really fascinated by the remote viewing, and I wanna get to that, but I wanna start with, like, how did you begin studying this stuff? So you're involved in neuroscience. You're, you know, you're trying to pick which lane you're gonna really pursue all your interests in. How did you get involved in this idea of premonition and psychic ability, and that, that there's a, a real something there?

   2. JMJulia Mossbridge42:41

      Yeah. I, um, I sort of hid it from my, I hi- I hid my agenda from myself. So-

   3. JRJoe Rogan42:48

      Really?

   4. JMJulia Mossbridge42:48

      Yeah. [laughs] I, I discovered, you know, later in life. Yeah, because when I was a kid, uh, my first precognitive dream that I remember was when I was seven, and, um, it was very clear. I, I dreamt that my friend, I knew which friend, Ishayne, would, what would happen, she would lose her watch. Where would it happen? On the playground. And then the next day, that happened. It was very specificYou know, it wasn't like you don't have to be metaphorical about it. What does it mean? It meant that Shane lost her watch on the playground the next day.

   5. JRJoe Rogan43:20

      Right, right.

   6. JMJulia Mossbridge43:21

      And so-

   7. JRJoe Rogan43:22

      Did you tell your parents?

   8. JMJulia Mossbridge43:23

      Yeah, and they said... My mom, so my, so my, so my very eccentric, um, family would always talk about dreams at the breakfast table. My mom is a therapist and a learning disability specialist. My dad was a physicist. My sister's an artist. And we would all talk about dreams, and so I would, I'd mention this, and my dad, the physicist, says, "Well, that's a coincidence." And my mom, the therapist, says, "You should get a dream journal and write them down." And so I did that. And, um-

   9. JRJoe Rogan43:54

      Your dad just dismissed it as a coincidence?

   10. JMJulia Mossbridge43:57

       You know, he, he has come around.

   11. JRJoe Rogan43:59

       That's a very specific coincidence.

   12. JMJulia Mossbridge44:02

       It's three, three factors.

   13. JRJoe Rogan44:03

       Yeah.

   14. JMJulia Mossbridge44:04

       And I always like to say if you have two or more factors, it's likely precognitive.

   15. JRJoe Rogan44:07

       But just the one.

   16. JMJulia Mossbridge44:08

       Yeah. [laughs]

   17. JRJoe Rogan44:08

       Lost the watch, and then she loses her watch. But Joe-

   18. JMJulia Mossbridge44:11

       Well, but she did just get her watch. She wa- we were seven years old. She got her watch from her father. You know, I could, you could predict that if someone who's good at figuring out what kids do, that they might lose the watch, right? So that could be a coincidence. You have to think about all the possible things that could happen to a seven-year-old and the watch that they just got. Losing it is up there.

   19. JRJoe Rogan44:29

       Yeah, but you thought about it the day before she lost it.

   20. JMJulia Mossbridge44:31

       I dreamt it the day before she lost it.

   21. JRJoe Rogan44:33

       Yeah, th- dreamt it.

   22. JMJulia Mossbridge44:34

       Yeah. Yeah. So he did dismiss it as a coincidence, but we also had ball lightning and, like, weird orbs in our house, and he also dismissed that as not actually having happened.

   23. JRJoe Rogan44:42

       Wait, you had ball lightning in your house?

   24. JMJulia Mossbridge44:45

       Yeah, we were in this old farmhouse in Libertyville, Illinois, where I grew up. And we lived with my grandparents there. And, um, and, uh, ball lightning came inside the house, and my mother stood up for it. My mother said, "Ed," my, my dad's name, you know, "Didn't you see that lightning zipping around the house last night? Lightning." And my dad said, um, "That couldn't have happened." [laughs]

   25. JRJoe Rogan45:11

       Did he see it?

   26. JMJulia Mossbridge45:12

       Of course he saw it.

   27. JRJoe Rogan45:13

       But he just wanted to dismiss it.

   28. JMJulia Mossbridge45:14

       But he didn't have an explanation for it.

   29. JRJoe Rogan45:15

       What does your dad do?

   30. JMJulia Mossbridge45:16

       He was a theoretical physicist. When he-
9. 49:03 – 53:51

   Studying presentiment in the lab: physiology, prediction, and a gender-linked effect

   1. JRJoe Rogan49:03

      And when you started asking them and trying to apply it in, uh, using the scientific method, how did you first attempt to do that?

   2. JMJulia Mossbridge49:12

      Well, I called... I, I was a, I ha- I'm kind of fearlessWhen it comes to cold calling people, especially scientists, 'cause very few people call scientists. [laughs] So I called up Dean Radin. I had read some of his work from the Institute of Noetic Sciences. I called him up and I said, um, "Hi, my name's Julia, and I was thinking of [laughs] going into this field, and I think precognition is real." And he's like, "Oh, okay." And, [laughs] and I remember where I was sitting, uh, when I called him. And, uh, he said, "The thing you have to do is get your PhD in a field that is not this. So finish your PhD, and then as a postdoc, start to investigate it." So I did. I finished my PhD while I was studying all this other stuff and understanding the field, and then as soon as I got into my postdoc years, I found a, a sympathetic advisor at Northwestern, uh, in the cognitive neuroscience program, and, um, and just said, "I wanna start studying this stuff." So I, at the same time, I had one foot in more mainstream stuff about timing and the auditory and the visual system, and then the other foot was in this purely, basically psychic stuff, trying to understand it. And I made an experiment. Um, there's a foundation called the Bial Foundation in Portugal, and I wrote, I wrote an application to them, and they funded my postdoc so I could study the sense of being stared at, um, with, like, closed circuit TV monitors, and I could study how the skin physiology, you know, skin conductance or sweat changes when, um, just before you get a response right on a random, like, psychic task. And so that, that's kind of precognition or presentiment. And then I just pulled from... I got really interested in presentiment 'cause I saw that it was real, and I also saw there was a big gender difference that was fascinating to me, which is that before men got their first trial correct, this is just a guessing game so the, you know, it's all randomly selected, their skin conductance would go crazy like they just won the lottery. And when they're, before they didn't get it correct or they were incorrect, it would just kinda like peter along. So they were anticipating at a very high level what the future was going to bring, whether they were gonna win or not. Whereas women practically, but not totally, showed the opposite, but their skin, the, but, but regardless of what happened, whether it was correct or incorrect, they were much lower than men. So men were really excited about the future correct thing. At least their physiology showed that. So I got fascinated by that and pulled together a bunch of, um, worked with a couple other people at different institutions and pulled together 26 studies over the past or the prior, I guess, 40 years, that looked at this kind of physiological change that predicts essentially a random future event, and, uh, just analyzed it.

   3. JRJoe Rogan52:04

      Do you have a theory as to why men have that response and women don't?

   4. JMJulia Mossbridge52:09

      You know, I, I kinda think it's cultural. You were talking about the importance of winning, and I think... I mean, the, we know that gambling addicts are twice as likely or maybe three times as likely to be men as women.

   5. JRJoe Rogan52:25

      Mm. Really?

   6. JMJulia Mossbridge52:26

      And, yeah. And the importance of winning, well, I don't know if it's biological or cultural, but in any case, the importance of being alpha or the importance of winning, I think it's a big deal. It's a big deal to the, to men.

   7. JRJoe Rogan52:42

      Do you think that goes back to tribal war?

   8. JMJulia Mossbridge52:45

      I think it goes, like, back to, like, chimpanzees.

   9. JRJoe Rogan52:49

      Yeah, which do tribal war.

   10. JMJulia Mossbridge52:51

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan52:51

       Yeah. I mean, it, it kind of makes sense that the importance in winning is literally survival or death.

   12. JMJulia Mossbridge52:56

       You will get kicked out of-

   13. JRJoe Rogan52:57

       Yeah

   14. JMJulia Mossbridge52:58

       ... your little chimpanzee colony.

   15. JRJoe Rogan52:59

       Not only that, the ability to predict things that are going to happen would probably keep you alive.

   16. JMJulia Mossbridge53:06

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan53:06

       Like, if you were running into an ambush, you know, like, "I don't like this," or something's wrong, something's off, or now's the time to go. Like, I feel it.

   18. JMJulia Mossbridge53:15

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan53:15

       Yeah.

   20. JMJulia Mossbridge53:16

       Yeah, so those combined. But, you know, there's other tasks that aren't about winning, that are just about, is, you know, are you gonna see a picture that's scary versus a picture that's neutral, where women and men both show the effect. But in this particular task, it was just, like, very clear. And then I replicated it in heart, heartbeat. So the first one was in skin conductance, and then I looked at heart rhythms. And, uh, I replicated that same thing where men are like, "Oh, yeah, here we go."

   21. JRJoe Rogan53:41

       Mm.

   22. JMJulia Mossbridge53:41

       And women are like, "Da, da, da, da." Um, it doesn't, if something doesn't matter so much to you in the future, I don't think it matters so much to you in anticipating it.

10. 53:51 – 1:06:28

    Language as a suppressor of psi: autism, brain inhibition, psychedelics, and filter theory

    1. JRJoe Rogan53:51

       Mm. Now, here's the question about this stuff. Do you think that this is an emerging phenomenon in human consciousness, or do you think it's something that has atrophied that was available before language? So th-

    2. JMJulia Mossbridge54:08

       Uh, very clearly available f- I mean, before language.

    3. JRJoe Rogan54:11

       Okay, that's what I think.

    4. JMJulia Mossbridge54:12

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan54:12

       I've been thinking that a lot lately.

    6. JMJulia Mossbridge54:14

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan54:14

       And one of the things that I've been thinking is one of the things that we've noticed, like, I think phones and the internet and the computers are an amazing thing. You can acquire so much information. You can learn about things. You can e- encounter new people. There's so much stuff that's great about the internet. The bad thing is a lot of people have a much shorter attention span now because of social media, and then now they're demonstrating that through use of large language models, a lot of people are actually getting dumber.

    8. JMJulia Mossbridge54:46

       Yes.

    9. JRJoe Rogan54:46

       Or they're-

    10. JMJulia Mossbridge54:47

        I've noticed it already.

    11. JRJoe Rogan54:48

        Yeah. Well, it's s- they've studied it, and they, especially children, they're, they're actually less capable of solving problems themselves because they always turn to a computer and have the computer solve a problem. And the more I think about that, the more I look at that, I go, "Well, what is language?" Language is a technology, and language is a technology that allows you to say things with your mouth, and I know what you're thinking. Maybe before that existed, we had an understanding of what we were thinking. You know, maybe there's, like, some sort of a weird psychic connection that we all believe that people have with each other in some way or form, and some of it's, you could demonstrate some of it, you know? ButMost of it is just intuition and feeling, and I always wonder, like, is this atrophied? Like, before we could talk, when we were just these bipedal hominids with, you know, larger brains than all the other mammals, and these weird abilities to be curious and figure out things and develop tools, like, what was, what was consciousness like before language-

    12. JMJulia Mossbridge55:51

        Yeah

    13. JRJoe Rogan55:51

        ... before written language? You didn't have a word for dog and tree, and like, what was it that was going on in your head if you don't... Like, you think in your head. I think in my head in a voice.

    14. JMJulia Mossbridge56:04

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan56:04

        You know? I, and they say some people don't have an internal voice.

    16. JMJulia Mossbridge56:07

        I don't have that.

    17. JRJoe Rogan56:07

        You don't have an internal voice?

    18. JMJulia Mossbridge56:08

        I have pictures.

    19. JRJoe Rogan56:09

        Ooh, that's interesting.

    20. JMJulia Mossbridge56:11

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan56:12

        Really?

    22. JMJulia Mossbridge56:13

        Yeah. I sometimes wonder about that, if that's why I can, I can do the remote viewing stuff.

    23. JRJoe Rogan56:17

        Only pictures?

    24. JMJulia Mossbridge56:19

        Feelings.

    25. JRJoe Rogan56:20

        Oh, I have a whole dude in my brain.

    26. JMJulia Mossbridge56:22

        Yeah. I, I've heard that most people have that.

    27. JRJoe Rogan56:25

        No, I don't think it's most people.

    28. JMJulia Mossbridge56:26

        Really?

    29. JRJoe Rogan56:26

        I think it's kind of d- well-

    30. JMJulia Mossbridge56:28

        Is it your voice? Like-
11. 1:06:28 – 1:20:21

    Telepathy with non-speaking autistic spellers: controlled setups and “telepathy train” evidence

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:06:28

       Has, have any of those non-verbal autistic kids ever wrote something down where they couldn't possibly have known it?

    2. JMJulia Mossbridge1:06:36

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:06:36

       Like what?

    4. JMJulia Mossbridge1:06:37

       Oh, I can give you many examples. In fact, um, do you wanna... I have a video of that.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:06:42

       Oh, sure. Okay.

    6. JMJulia Mossbridge1:06:43

       Yeah. I have to walk you through the video.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:06:44

       Okay.

    8. JMJulia Mossbridge1:06:45

       Yeah. Do you have that over there?

    9. SPSpeaker1:06:47

       I don't know.

    10. JMJulia Mossbridge1:06:48

        I gave you like 18 things.

    11. SPSpeaker1:06:49

        Oh. I... Give me a second. Sorry.

    12. JMJulia Mossbridge1:06:52

        Okay. So the, so let me explain the context.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:06:56

        Okay.

    14. JMJulia Mossbridge1:06:57

        So, um, uh, I met my research team partially through people I had already worked with, and partially folks who, uh, Kai Dickens, creator of The Telepathy Tapes-

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:07:09

        Mm-hmm

    16. JMJulia Mossbridge1:07:09

        ... introduced me to.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:07:09

        I had her on.

    18. JMJulia Mossbridge1:07:10

        Yeah, I know.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:07:11

        Yeah.

    20. JMJulia Mossbridge1:07:11

        It was a great show.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:07:11

        Very interesting.

    22. JMJulia Mossbridge1:07:12

        And so I, I wanted to ask that question, can we use rigorous methods to have folks write down, non-speakers or spellers, whatever we wanna call them. Um, I think non-speakers or spellers are preferred. Um, non-verbal kind of implies that they don't have language at all, but the, the reality is they don't, they may speak, but they don't speak to communicate. They use letterboards or-

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:07:35

        Got it

    24. JMJulia Mossbridge1:07:36

        ... or keyboards. Um, I wanted to understand, like-They're doing all these tests where they're repeating numbers and letters, and that's interesting, but it doesn't really, to me... I mean, the whole world of s- testing people for psychic abilities, it's not very interesting. And if we presume that these students are actually pretty smart, it's gotta be boring for them. And so I thought, "Well, let's give them an opportunity to really show their stuff." And so I set up this whole rigorous trial set, and even the non-speakers came o- on board and actually told us what they would like to see the stimuli be. "We want videos. We want music. We want words in the videos that are sung." I mean, they just told us all these things that they wanted, and by, by again, using the letter boards. And we said, "Okay, we can do all that, but the, the catch is the person who's sending the information is gonna be in another room maybe, like, 30 yards away with a closed door, and you can work with your communication partner, but she is not gonna know what the target is, and she's gonna have no idea what the target could be, 'cause she's never gonna see any of the target videos that we'll use." And so we were preparing for this, and, uh, we were getting our software ready. We were preparing for the formal trials that would be filmed for the, for the documentary. And so we were doing that on Zoom. We weren't yet in person. But the non-speaker that I'm about to tell you about was with his communication partner, Maria Welch, who's a speech and language pathologist. Um, and sh- he was, you know, getting ready to do the trial. We were explaining it to him. And I was in Virginia. Maria and the student were in, um, in Illinois. And then Jeff Tarrant, uh, another co-investigator, another neuroscientist, was in Oregon. And so the person who was gonna send the video, in other words, just intend to send the video, like in a tele- telepathy experiment, was gonna be Jeff. He, uh, the non-speaker chose Jeff. And then, um, we did it. We turned off our cameras. We were on Zoom. We turned off our cameras. We turned off our microphones. Jeff sent the video. Maria and the student started, I don't know, intending to receive it. And then these, the student said he was ready. He spelled that he was ready. And then Maria asked the question that I put i- I thought I had put in the Zoom chat for her, because we didn't have our software set up, so I had to send her a question in the Zoom chat. And I, and the way we traditionally did it at that time was I asked multiple choice. "Is it a, is it a this, this, this, or this?" But the thing is, by mistake, I sent that to Jeff 'cause I had a private chat with him going, so I didn't realize that she didn't have the questions. Meanwhile, the student starts to spell on the letter board. He says, "I'm ready." He says, "It's a beautiful sky." And she had not seen the questions. Um, it was a beautiful sky. The... Of all the videos in the world that he picked to describe that way, it was a video of the tops of trees, and then above them, um, like, northern lights that had been colored, like, by an artist to look even more cool, and then there's, like, a time lapse. And he said, "It's, uh, i- it's art of a beautiful sky." And that was a really great description. And statistically, there's almost no way to calculate how statistically likely that is, because it could've been any video in the world, and we didn't even give him the, the multiple choice.

    25. SPSpeaker1:11:14

        Whoa.

    26. JMJulia Mossbridge1:11:14

        Yeah. So actually, that's not the video I'm gonna show you. I just realized that I wanted to answer the question more directly. The video I'm gonna, I wanna show you, if you can find it, is one of what we call a telepathy train, where the students... And this happened more than once when, when we were physically in town in, in Chicago as a team, where the st- one student comes in and says something, leaves, and the next student comes in with their mom, and they check in. You know, Maria always asks them, "Would you like to check in?" And then they refer to the thing the last student was talking about. And, um, and it happened in a really compelling way in this video, because there was also a discussion that the first student who comes in, which I believe I'm calling Participant 4, t- just for anonymity. So Participant 4 comes in and asks, says he wants to go on a double date with Participant 5 and his girlfriend. And then, and then he says, "Tell his mom." And then when Participant 5 comes in, he says, um, "Tell my mom I wanna go to, on a double date with Participant 4 and his girlfriend." So they clearly had already discussed this telepathically, 'cause, um, they're non-speakers. They're not talking to each other. Their parents haven't talked to each other about this. The parents don't know each other. And so, so that happened. And then they also passed on this [laughs] I mean, so this k- stuff kept happening. They also passed on this idea of slamming a beach ball on the ground in order to identify each of the videos, because they wanted to get the telepathy, uh, signals right, but they were missing them, you know, on the, on the formal trials. So they discussed between themselves, apparently telepathically, "If you slam a beach ball on the ground before we do the trial, then we'll focus on it in time, and we'll go to the right timeline to talk about..." [laughs] This is, this is what they write down, "To, to get to the video in our minds." And so that's the video that I wanted to show you, if it's here, where-

    27. SPSpeaker1:13:15

        Okay

    28. JMJulia Mossbridge1:13:15

        ... where he... Because I don't include the double date stuff in it because it's too private and they say too many names of other-

    29. SPSpeaker1:13:21

        On the page I have-

    30. JMJulia Mossbridge1:13:22

        ... students
12. 1:20:21 – 1:49:33

    Mind-reading specifics, mediumship questions, and ‘informational substrate’ / Akashic records

    1. JMJulia Mossbridge1:20:21

       But I, I have my own experience of, of that particular student. I forget whether I called him participant four or participant five at the end. He and I became, um... I had a good understanding of his mind, and we had some good conversations. And I had a dream one night where, um, he came to me, and all he did was show me this, like... It was like a, it was like a sun where you could see the sunspots, and it was just slowly turning. And it was beautiful, and he just gave it to me. And then the next day, I was working with him over Zoom, and so I asked Maria, I said, "Can I ask him a question?" You know, and she said, "Sure." And I said, "You know, last night you gave me something. You gave me a shape. What was the shape?" Because I didn't, I hadn't told Maria about the dream or anyone else. It was just my dream that I wrote in my journal. Um, and I was thinking he would say ball or sphere, and that would either be a good guess or it would be telepathy. But he goes [laughs] I can't e- I still can't get over this. "I sent you a, a pre-revolutionary orb with four stars on it slowly rotating."

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:21:34

       What is a pre-revolutionary orb?

    3. JMJulia Mossbridge1:21:35

       I don't fucking know. But [laughs]

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:21:37

       What does that mean?

    5. JMJulia Mossbridge1:21:37

       I don't know. I mean, I th-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:21:39

       With four stars on it?

    7. JMJulia Mossbridge1:21:40

       With four star- stars on it slowly rotating.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:21:42

       But that's not exactly what you saw in the dream.

    9. JMJulia Mossbridge1:21:44

       Well, the, there were these sunspots. So see, he's... See, there's a poetic license that they have. I, I would say that's 80% correct. So it was slowly rotating, and there were these sunspots that I were calling, I was calling sunspots, he was calling stars.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:22:03

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JMJulia Mossbridge1:22:04

        And it was definitely an orb. What does pre-revolutionary mean? I don't know. They talk about, and I talk about in my book, "The Love Revolution," this idea that we're moving towards a time when we can actually use love in our lives to communicate and to connect people. But maybe that's what he means. Um, and that, uh, so that's one instance. So I sort of go, "Okay, that was interesting." And it kind of blew my mind that he used that language. He's very, he's just gifted at interesting language. And then this other non-speaker who worked with Natalia, who is the young woman you saw on the left who also works with a lot of spellers, um, just decided to start reading my mind like we did. Uh, he started... I asked Natalia, I said, "Can we just do an experiment where I'll be doing something, and I'll know what I'm doing at that time, and you just ask one of your students to, to read my mind? And then no one else will know what I'm doing, and she won't know what I'm doing." And so what I was doing was doing this remote viewing, uh, for a friend. And so I knew exactly what I was doing during that time and what I was thinking. But what I was thinking about was, remember that comet 3I/Atlas?

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:23:14

        Mm-hmm.

    13. JMJulia Mossbridge1:23:15

        So I was thinking, I was kind of obsessively thinking about 3I/Atlas, like, "What is it? What's the deal?" You know? It was during that exact time-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:23:21

        Right

    15. JMJulia Mossbridge1:23:21

        ... in December of last year. And he comes back with some stuff I don't understand, like poetic license. I call it poetic license, or just it's wrong, that I don't understand where it came from. And then he says, um, "Oh, and 3I/Atlas." And he talks about this owl that I saw in a video when I was doing the remote viewing. Um, and I was like... So Natalia didn't even know what 3I/Atlas was. She had to look it up. And the parent didn't know what 3I/Atlas was. And he spelled it 3-E-Y-E Atlas.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:23:54

        Oh.

    17. JMJulia Mossbridge1:23:54

        Right?

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:23:54

        Wow.

    19. JMJulia Mossbridge1:23:55

        So it was phonetic.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:23:57

        Phonetic.

    21. JMJulia Mossbridge1:23:57

        Yeah. And then later, a couple weeks ago, I get a text from Natalia that the same student, who apparently has now felt perfectly fine reading my mind, tapped into my mind when I was thinking about a medication that my stepmom was taking. And he used her name, which Natalia didn't know, and told me that she would be okay on the medication, that it would help her, and then told Natalia to text me, and so she did. [laughs]

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:24:21

        The 3I/Atlas and writing it as E-Y-E-

    23. JMJulia Mossbridge1:24:26

        Yeah

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:24:26

        ... is very strange.

    25. JMJulia Mossbridge1:24:27

        Well, and the-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:24:28

        That's hard. That's h- 'Cause that's not how it's written anywhere.

    27. JMJulia Mossbridge1:24:32

        Yeah, no.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:24:32

        Right? So the fact that he wrote it I-E-Y-E means he was hearing you.

    29. JMJulia Mossbridge1:24:36

        It's how, it's how you would hear it.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:24:38

        What the hell?
13. 1:49:33 – 2:07:21

    Retrocausal physics claims: double-slit interference in time, observer effects, and quantum computing critique

    1. JMJulia Mossbridge1:49:33

       And, and so it's almost like they're interacting in another dimension that's less physical. And the, it seems just interesting to me that we think a lot about what a photon would feel, and I just, I just keep thinking that there's some connection between what we call mind and what we call brain that has to do with photons. So anyway, I got obsessed with photons, and I started thinking about, um, the double slit experiment. Do, do your, does your audience know what that is?

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:50:06

       Um, probably, but a refresher would probably be good for everybody.

    3. JMJulia Mossbridge1:50:09

       Okay. Yeah. So [laughs] when I first told my husband about the double slit experiment, he's an artist, he's like, "Ha ha ha ha ha. Double slit." [laughs] I'm like, "That never occurred to me." 'Cause I'm like all ready to explain it to him, and he's like, couldn't get off that. But anyway, it was pretty-

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:50:28

       Beavis and Butt-Head.

    5. JMJulia Mossbridge1:50:29

       Yeah. [laughs] You said double slit. So, uh, imagine there's like a, like a flashlight at one end of a tube, and then there's like a, um, a photon detector at the other end of the tube. And in between the flashlight and the photon detector are two slits, and they could be in cardboard or metal or whatever. So there's two slits here, and they're very skinny. And the reason I say they're skinny is because they're so skinny that if you turn down the light enough, only one photon's gonna get through, and it's gonna have to choose between this slit or that slit. And the weird thing is, if you do this over time, you'll see the pattern at the photon detector at the other end of the tube, it'll look like an interference pattern. What does that mean? Oh, look at you.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:51:13

       Yeah, here it is.

    7. JMJulia Mossbridge1:51:15

       Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:51:15

       So the electron beam gun, electrons goes through the double slit, and at the end of it you get this very bizarre pattern.

    9. JMJulia Mossbridge1:51:22

       Yeah, and this pattern ... And so I was talking about photons, but yeah, you can do it with electrons, you can do it with larger particles. But, um, and that does, and it doesn't matter. But, um, if you ... Here, that one double slit up there is really good. That's a good one. Yes. So there's two, two pieces of it that are weird. The first bullet up there that you can't see on the screen, but is gonna say that when you send a single particle one at a time, it has to choose between the slits, but it still interf- seems to interfere with itself in space. It's like it goes through both slits. One particle goes in two places at once. It's called non-local in space. It's non-local. In other words, it's not behaving like we're used to. It's not behaving like a billiard ball. It's going t- one thing is going through two slits. So I kept looking at this and saying, "Well, it might be non-local in space, but if it, it could be non-local in time." And by that I mean that if you put electron or a photon in there, it could be interfering from, uh, the future, like with another electron or another photon that happens in the future. And there's actually an experiment you can do to test that, and I wanted to do the experiment. So the b- so first of all, did you understand what I just said?

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:52:45

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JMJulia Mossbridge1:52:45

        Okay. So the way you could test that is, look, if the photon that's gonna ... If the photon, I'm just, okay, I'm, now I'm gonna pretend I'm a photon. I don't really like thinking of photons traveling 'cause I don't think they really travel. But anyway, I'm gonna pretend I'm a photon and I just got shot out of this flashlight or this light bulb. I'm traveling towards the slit, and I interfere with another photon that wasn't just shot out of the light bulb, it's going to be shot out of the light bulb in the future, but it's just sort of hanging out there because it's floating around in time.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:53:20

        Is, is the actual light able to do one photon at a time?

    13. JMJulia Mossbridge1:53:24

        Yeah, if you turn it down enough, it is.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:53:26

        How could you measure whether it's one photon?

    15. JMJulia Mossbridge1:53:28

        You calculate, you can just calculate the expected amount of light that should come through with the detector.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:53:35

        Hmm.

    17. JMJulia Mossbridge1:53:35

        And-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:53:35

        It's that accurate, down to a single photon?

    19. JMJulia Mossbridge1:53:38

        You, yeah, you can calculate based on the speed of light and the emission and the de- where the detector is-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:53:45

        Okay

    21. JMJulia Mossbridge1:53:45

        ... how much ... Yeah. So you can turn it down to that level. Um, and I know, I, I think you, I think it, this experiment's like almost, I think it's 100 years old. Uh, so they were able to do that way back then. And so imagine this photon gets shot out of this flashlight, it interferes with another photon just like it from the future. Just imagine that's possible. If that's true, then in experiments where you have a lot of photons available to interact from the future, like in other words, the light is on for a long time-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:54:20

        Mm-hmm

    23. JMJulia Mossbridge1:54:20

        ... the interference pattern should show a different sort of pattern than if you don't have very many photons in the future, so the light's not gonna be on a long time. So the experiment I wanted to do, and that I did, was look, just randomly determine how long this experiment's gonna last. How long are you gonna leave this light on into the future? And then look at the very first period of time. Like look at the first 30 seconds, and after 30 seconds you randomly choose, are you gonna turn this light off or are you gonna leave it on for another two minutes? In the first 30 seconds, can you determine what the choice is gonna be based on the pattern? If you can, that means this thing is interfering in time. And it turns out you could. So I ended up replicating that and replicating that and replicating that. And then a friend at UC Berkeley, uh, who teaches the advanced physics lab there, said, "I wanna set up my own equipment, do the exact same experiment. I'm gonna run it over a year, and I'm gonna see if I get the same result." So he sent me his data. He walked away. I analyzed the data, and I figured out the equation that relates the amount of future time after the decision to the, um, the, the detection pattern before the decision. And so that's the kind of result that I think is gonna actually shift quantum computing, because you're working at room temperature with groups of photons rather than trying to trap them, and you're treating them more like a giant unit, this unit in time, rather than this unit in space. And so actually, can I, can I name drop my new company?

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:56:04

        Yeah. What was the results of his data?

    25. JMJulia Mossbridge1:56:06

        Oh, um, that the same result happened. I mean-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:56:10

        So it really was that somehow or another the photons were able to predict the future.

    27. JMJulia Mossbridge1:56:15

        Yeah. Well, if you think of a box ... Okay, so think of a really deep well. Let's think of a well-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:56:21

        Uh-huh

    29. JMJulia Mossbridge1:56:21

        ... with water in the bottom.You cannot see. You can't, like, look over the edge. It's so deep, you don't know how deep it is. So you might drop something in it, and then you listen for the ding, and you can have a sense of how deep it is. It's a little like this. You can't know in, sort of with our eyes, how long that experiment's gonna last. But you're getting a little reverberation from the future in the photons. It's like they're telling on themselves. Like-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:56:50

        Hmm
14. 2:07:21 – 2:22:16

    Disclosure, UFO ‘donations,’ ideas as entities, and the muse

    1. JRJoe Rogan2:07:21

       Hmm. How do you think that aligns with this whole extraterrestrial thing?

    2. JMJulia Mossbridge2:07:30

       You're pointing at my book.

    3. JRJoe Rogan2:07:31

       Yeah.

    4. JMJulia Mossbridge2:07:32

       Yeah. Just so this cover, my husband did the art.

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:07:34

       Have a Nice Disclosure? [laughs]

    6. JMJulia Mossbridge2:07:36

       Yeah. [laughs] He has like a little, a little quirky, like, uh, alien face engaging. It took him five minutes. I love it. Um, yeah. So this book is not about aliens, and some people get disappointed. It has an alien on the cover because people think of disclosure with aliens right now.

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:07:54

       Mm-hmm.

    8. JMJulia Mossbridge2:07:55

       But it's really about what you know, what we fi- can find out by going into our inner space. Like, what we can find out by tapping into our own wisdom and our own experience, and not waiting for some authority figure to say, "Hey, this is what's true, and now we will reveal the great secret." Because honestly, when that happens, which could be literally tomorrow [laughs] , um, with the-

    9. JRJoe Rogan2:08:21

       It might be today

    10. JMJulia Mossbridge2:08:21

        ... It might be today with the release of the files.

    11. JRJoe Rogan2:08:23

        I don't know what they're gonna tell us.

    12. JMJulia Mossbridge2:08:24

        Yeah. I, I think there's gonna be a lot of redacted stuff and flood the zone with shit. But-

    13. JRJoe Rogan2:08:28

        Yeah

    14. JMJulia Mossbridge2:08:29

        ... but, uh-But when that happens, it does- it's not gonna matter. 'Cause when someone tells you something and they say it's true, it doesn't matter until you experience it.

    15. JRJoe Rogan2:08:41

        Mm-hmm.

    16. JMJulia Mossbridge2:08:41

        You know? It doesn't matter until it matters to you.

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:08:44

        Right.

    18. JMJulia Mossbridge2:08:45

        And so-

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:08:45

        Yes, that's a good point

    20. JMJulia Mossbridge2:08:46

        ... and so I think that disclosure, if you wanna have a nice disclosure, it's really about learning what matters to you and disclosing all your own weird shit to yourself. [laughs]

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:08:59

        Mm.

    22. JMJulia Mossbridge2:08:59

        You know, all the weird thoughts, like you're talking about that guy in your head. All those weird thoughts that we have and the weird experiences we've had in our lifetimes that we sort of bury. We say that, like the thing about the ball lightning, like every- I still forget that, and I've talked about it several times. Um, we sort of say, "Well, that's not normal. That's not usual, so maybe it didn't happen somehow." But it did, you know? Or people who have experienced seeing UAP or UFOs or people who are psionic assets or people like me who have psychic experiences all the time, it's, it's... And how I suppressed it so that I could go and to get my PhD, and then I- it came up as a flower later. I think that the movement has to switch, like we need a Copernican revolution, where we're not looking from, for some authority figure to tell us what's true.

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:09:53

        I would, I would agree with that, but I also think it really helps if someone who knows more than you, who's honest, can tell you what's true. What I was kinda getting into-

    24. JMJulia Mossbridge2:10:03

        Well, maybe-

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:10:04

        I would agree with that, but what I was kinda getting into is this idea of retrocausality. If all timeline exists in the future, these things that people keep experiencing, which, uh, if you just extrapolated from what we understand about evolution from ancient hominids to current human beings to what do you think we're gonna look like, well, that's what w- I think we're gonna look like.

    26. JMJulia Mossbridge2:10:25

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:10:25

        These very frail things that don't need muscles.

    28. JMJulia Mossbridge2:10:28

        Big heads.

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:10:28

        They have very big heads.

    30. JMJulia Mossbridge2:10:29

        And kinda, like, weird arms.
15. 2:22:16 – 2:39:16

    Gifted-program memories, alleged intelligence links, and ethics of experimentation on children

    1. JMJulia Mossbridge2:22:16

       So I ended up talking about this, this gifted and talented program I was in and, um, all the receipts I had from that and what the heck was going on with that. It's funny to me how sometimes I'll swear, and sometimes I'll say heck. But [laughs]

    2. JRJoe Rogan2:22:31

       [laughs]

    3. JMJulia Mossbridge2:22:31

       I don't know why. I'm like, why? Like, sometimes I'm like, "What the fuck?" And sometimes I'll be like, "Gosh darn it."

    4. JRJoe Rogan2:22:36

       Yeah. [laughs]

    5. JMJulia Mossbridge2:22:37

       [laughs] I just don't know what the difference is.

    6. JRJoe Rogan2:22:39

       Oh, I think about that all the time.

    7. JMJulia Mossbridge2:22:40

       Yeah. But anyway, I... It's a weird, weird book, but what it did was open up f- uh, for a lot of people who were in these weird gifted and talented programs, opened up a lot of memories. Um, and I ended up starting a support group for people who had these experiences and kind of, um, don't know what to do with them and still feel the surveillance and the sort of the f- the feeling of being studied throughout your whole life.

    8. JRJoe Rogan2:23:09

       Hmm.

    9. JMJulia Mossbridge2:23:09

       And not knowing if your, your gifts are your own or if they were taught to you in some kind of way that you've forgotten and... So anyway, I don't know why I brought that up. I guess about the, I guess about the getting out of your own way thing. I had to write all that down. It's the best book I've ever written. I've written other books. They're good, but this one is everything I wanted to say and nothing I didn't want to say, and I got it all out there. Um, and I have a security clearance, and I was afraid that, um, it would get taken away from me if I said all these things. And-

    10. JRJoe Rogan2:23:39

        'Cause you talked about remote viewing?

    11. JMJulia Mossbridge2:23:41

        No, 'cause I talked about the intelligence community potentially being involved in, um-

    12. JRJoe Rogan2:23:47

        Gifted programs?

    13. JMJulia Mossbridge2:23:49

        Yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan2:23:49

        Yeah. Well, of course they are. I would imagine they are.

    15. JMJulia Mossbridge2:23:52

        I would imagine-

    16. JRJoe Rogan2:23:52

        I mean, imagine they were trying to get talent in any way they can, especially if they actually invested time and energy, and we know they have, in remote viewing and things along those lines.

    17. JMJulia Mossbridge2:24:00

        Yeah, but the problem is they were doing these pro- I mean, I, of course, the intell- I, I'm, I'm impressed with and know many good people in the intelligence community. And, um, at the time that they were doing these programs and giving students these weird drinks and doing some kind of mechanism to remove memory of certain things, they were not asking for parental consent. So yes, looking for talent, understood. Yes, doing, trying to look for psychic... I mean, the intelligence community has always been interested in psychic capacities. Not asking for parental consent, bad.

    18. JRJoe Rogan2:24:36

        And so they were giving you guys drinks? Do you know what was in it?

    19. JMJulia Mossbridge2:24:41

        No. Um, I remember a pink drink, though. It was chalky. It's the same kind of drink everyone talks about. Um-

    20. JRJoe Rogan2:24:47

        And then what was the effect of that pink drink? Do you remember that?

    21. JMJulia Mossbridge2:24:49

        I don't know. So here's, here's the, here's, there's two memory lapses that are very consistent. One was in seventh grade when I was explicitly told I was in a gifted program rather than my earlier years when I just kind of had the, these pull-outs and things. So in seventh grade, I'm in the, what's called the SOAR program. This was in, like, '80, '81. This is before GATE, Gifted and Talented Education. I think it's just a predecessor to GATE. And I was, um, pulled out every week, I think about every week, to go see a counselor, but the counselor was really two people, and, um, a man and a woman. Maybe it was sometimes just her, but I think it was both of them. And they would see me in the small rooms, but all I remember is walking. I remember walking down the hallway to the room, dreading that, opening the door. I know which door it was. I can picture it. Shutting the door. There's stuff over the window. And then I, I black out, like, every time. And, and I don't mean, like, I'm 57 years old, and I don't remember what happened [laughs] in the seventh grade. What I mean is, um, when I would then leave, I remember going back to class and not remembering what happened in the room.

    22. JRJoe Rogan2:26:02

        Wow.

    23. JMJulia Mossbridge2:26:04

        So there's some kind of... And this is not, I mean, this is not different from what many other people will report who were in that program. So I, they, some amnesiac. Either, either the drink was the amnesiac, or the drink is something else, and they did hypnosis to make us forget or whatever. The other time was when I was a adult. I was adult-ish. I was 20-ish. And I took some time off of college to go, uh, hang out in Palo Alto 'cause I had a, a boyfriend out there. I, I previously had a boyfriend out there, and I was kind of into the Stanford world. I wasn't at Stanford, but I was just into hanging out there. And I needed a job. Um, and so I... It was the time when word processing was like, you could get paid to be a word processor. [laughs] And I understood computers, and I was like, "I'll be a word processor." So I either got, I either saw an ad in the newspaper at Lockheed Martin or my dad told me, "I know someone you should talk to at Lockheed Martin for a job." I end up at Lockheed Martin for an interview in the morning. They hire me on the spot. Then, um, I remember sitting and talking to the guy during the interview, uh, just I could see the parking lot behind him. I see the desk. Behind me, I'm vaguely sensing in memory some kind of weird equipment, but again, no memory of that. Then I remember the end of the day when I'm typing on a c- computer, my hands are shaking, and I'm crying. And [laughs] I don't remember what happened between the morning and the night in that moment. I don't remember. And I feel like I'm typing up a resignation letter, but it, but it, in my memory, it could have just been the thing I was typing up, like word processing. But I hand it to the boss, and I go, "I can't work here." And he said, "Oh, I thought you would have a great future at Lockheed Martin." I'm like, "Why would you say that to a 20-year-old who you know is going back to college in, like, three months?" Um, what a weird thing to say for, to a word processor who you just hired on that day. And then I, and then I left. So, um, I don't know what to say about those instances. My memory is usually pretty photographic, and my auditory memory is excellent. Um-

    24. JRJoe Rogan2:28:27

        So do you think that the people at Lockheed Martin somehow or another had record of you being a part of this other program?

    25. JMJulia Mossbridge2:28:34

        I figure-

    26. JRJoe Rogan2:28:35

        And that's one of the reasons why they hired you?

    27. JMJulia Mossbridge2:28:37

        I, I, I figure. Or my dad knew that, and maybe the memory of him telling me was a real memory.

    28. JRJoe Rogan2:28:46

        Hmm.

    29. JMJulia Mossbridge2:28:46

        I mean, so he was working for Department of Energy when I was a kid. Um, and when, I recently had a support group meeting, like, two days ago with, with the folks who were in these programs, and someone asked the question, "Who here had parents who worked for either the public school system or federal government?" And everyone raised their hand, and then some-

    30. JRJoe Rogan2:29:03

        Whoa

Episode duration: 2:42:42