EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,012 words- 0:00 – 0:02
Intro
- SPSpeaker
[upbeat music]
- 0:02 – 1:47
Guitar gift, obsession mindset, and why hobbies can derail your life
- SPSpeaker
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
- JRJoe Rogan
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- SPSpeaker
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] What's up, Marcus?
- JRJoe Rogan
It's good to see you, brother.
- SPSpeaker
It's crazy, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
What's happening?
- SPSpeaker
It's crazy to be here.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's crazy to have you here, man, and thank you so much for the guitar. That's the dopest shit that anybody's ever given me.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, man, I hope you like it.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm sure I'll like it, I just can't play.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
And I, I would love to learn how to play, but I know my brain, and I, I can't give my brain another thing to do.
- SPSpeaker
You've got a lot.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, the problem is I get obsessed with things, and then-
- SPSpeaker
Me too.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm sure. You can't get as good as you got-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
... without getting obsessed.
- SPSpeaker
Are you like this? Like, I don't like doing things I'm not good at.
- JRJoe Rogan
I love doing things I'm not good at to get good at them.
- SPSpeaker
Right. But it's, it's, it's just, it's not leisurely to me-
- JRJoe Rogan
No
- SPSpeaker
... to play golf. Like, I can't enjoy it 'cause I'm, I'm bad at it. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you'll enjoy it if you get good at it, but the problem is, to get good at it, then you gotta get obsessed-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... and then you gotta take less... Like, Jamie's got a fucking virtual reality thing in the back where he whacks balls every day. He's a-
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah?
- JRJoe Rogan
He's obsessive. Look at him.
- SPSpeaker
I'm still recovering from hitting today.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- 1:47 – 7:06
Alcohol, relapse, and the “burn it all down” drinking impulse
- JRJoe Rogan
Why did you quit drinking?
- SPSpeaker
Uh, well, I quit a few times, but, uh, most recent time was like a year and a half ago.
- JRJoe Rogan
Were you quitting because it was t- you were just off the rails? Or, like, gotta get your health in order?
- SPSpeaker
Uh, it was a, it was kind of a combo deal, you know. Um, like, when I met my wife, uh, at that point I thought that I could drink like a gentleman. Um, and it just never really worked out that way. There was-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
You know, there was just something in me that just wanted to completely burn my life to the ground every time I drank-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... you know? A real destructive quality.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ooh, that's not good.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Fortunately, I never had that, but that is a thing. I've seen that. What is that?
- SPSpeaker
I think it's... I think a lot of it is repressed emotions. Um, and that's where they find you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right
- SPSpeaker
... when your, when your brain is-
- JRJoe Rogan
Demons in the bottle
- SPSpeaker
... off the switch.
- JRJoe Rogan
[whistles] Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They go, "Hey, Marcus."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs] "Let's get those problems out."
- SPSpeaker
It seduces me. It's like, "You don't need anybody. Fuck everybody."
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
"That woman that married you, she, you don't want her." Like...
- JRJoe Rogan
I think sometimes people do that to almost, like, save themselves from heartbreak sometimes. You kinda, like, wreck it yourself, so it's like-
- SPSpeaker
It's like making fun of yourself before anyone else can.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
It's like that thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Right.
- SPSpeaker
That's it.
- 7:06 – 9:07
Anxiety vs. live performing: chasing approval and finding the love of the craft
- JRJoe Rogan
It's always interesting to me when someone with anxiety chooses a path in life like live performing.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs] 'Cause, like, if there's anything that gives people anxiety-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... it's live performing. And you're really good at it.
- SPSpeaker
Well, thank you. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is crazy. It's like, you know, you're, you're picking this thing that you're really good at, but that gives a lot of people anxiety, and you have anxiety to begin with.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. I mean, it's like, there's, there's something to that. It's like Dan Soder, I always quote him on this. He's like, "You know, I, I go around each night, like, craving the approval of, like, thousands of people a night." You're like, "You didn't think I was doing that 'cause things went well growing up," you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
Like, I'm fucked up. I need, I need all these people to tell me I'm doing a good job. But, um.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think the idea is that eventually you channel that, and when you get yourself togeth- the idea, some people have this idea that if you ever get yourself together somewhat, and I don't think anybody ever gets totally together, but you get y- yourself together somewhat, and then you don't, you don't do it for the approval of it, you do it for the love of the art of it.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
The thing, and bringing the thing to people, and getting enjoyment out of having these people have a good time.
- SPSpeaker
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I think you c- it, I think that can be done. I think you can shift your focus from, "I just want these people's love," to, "I wanna give them love. I want everyone to have a good time. You know, I wanna be up there just fucking having a good time. They're having a good time. We all have a good time together. I make their lives feel better for a brief moment. I feel better. Everybody's, everybody's better off."
- SPSpeaker
And that's the shit, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
That's what I crave. And that, I mean, that's why, like, we just did a run of Texas honky tonks, which that's w- that was kind of the, the goal, was just to get everybody in these sweaty rooms just for the purpose of just, like, enjoying music again, getting back to the sticky floors.
- 9:07 – 13:15
Is rock dead? Southern-rock revival, jam-band roots, and Greta Van Fleet
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Well, you reached out to me because we were talking on the podcast about how rock and roll's kinda dead. And you said-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] Fucking rock and roll ain't dead. Come on
- JRJoe Rogan
... and I was like, "All right. Well-"
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
"... if there's anybody [laughs] that could tell me that rock and roll's not dead, it's Marcus King."
- SPSpeaker
Man. Yeah, I was, um, my boy Ben Jernigan, he told me, he was like, "You should text Joe."
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
'Cause I li- I li- I'm, I'm an avid listener. I was like, "You think I should say something?" [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
He's like, "Yeah, fucking tell him rock and roll ain't dead, man. It's here tonight, green hall."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's not dead, but it's different.
- SPSpeaker
It is. Yeah, it is.
- JRJoe Rogan
And a lot of the rock that's out now that's doing really well is, like, a Southern-inspired rock, which is interesting, is like a Southern, almost country-like rock, like bluesy country rock. You know, Red Clay Strays, like that kinda sh- they're doing great.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like there's a lot of that out there, you know? Like, people, people are digging that kind of music, but there's just... You know, when I talk about, like, rock, I mean, like, when I was in high school it was all Van Halen, AC/DC. Like, that, there were so many big rock and roll bands. The Stones, you know, there was just so much of that out there, and it's odd that there's not a lot of big bands like that anymore.
- SPSpeaker
I think it's coming back around.
- JRJoe Rogan
God, I hope so.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] Yeah, me too.
- JRJoe Rogan
It doesn't make sense to me.
- SPSpeaker
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because, like, the classic rock is still, like, when we're, we're in the green room and, uh, Free Bird comes on, still everybody's going nuts.
- SPSpeaker
I mean.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? I mean, there's classics. Another Southern rock and roll band.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Leonard Skynyrd. But there's, there's still, like, a love of that kind of music, but it's just, it's weird that it kind of c- you know, it just didn't... I don't know what happened.
- SPSpeaker
Well, it's interesting how cyclical the music industry can be.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
And, like, I feel like for the first time in the last 10 years, like, since Urban Cowboy came out, like... 'Cause, I mean, for the last 10 years I've been going to LA with a cowboy hat on and-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
... I always get the same shit, like, "Well, where do you wanna park your horse?" You know? Like-
- 13:15 – 19:50
Pirate pistols, antique weapons, and the weirdness of war reenactment culture
- SPSpeaker
They get a pass from me. I mean, they're my boys. I, I really, I really like those dudes. Like, we used to party together a bunch. They live in Nashville. And, uh, the guitar player, Jake, he's, um, he's just the sweetest guy. Like, he gave me a housewarming gift. He's, like, really into pirate stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Pirate stuff?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. He's really into piracy. And he gave me-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
He, he gave me a, like a, a f- like a, um, like a musket pistol.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- SPSpeaker
Like what a pirate would've carried around. I got it.
- JRJoe Rogan
A real one?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, like, from the olden days?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, shit. That's gotta be worth a lot of fucking money.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. [laughs] I mean, they're doing pretty well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. What does a old musket pistol run? How much can you get one of them for? See if you can find something, Jamie.
- SPSpeaker
A musket?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, an old musket pistol. You know, when, um, the conquistadors took over Mexico, that's, they had 12 of those. That's it.
- SPSpeaker
12 guns?
- JRJoe Rogan
12 musket pistols.
- SPSpeaker
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I looked that up on Perplexity. [laughs] I was just, I got, I was diving deep into how the fuck Mexico became Spanish.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? Like, what happened? How did it... Like, they lost, like, 100 indigenous languages at least.
- SPSpeaker
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's kind of crazy. But here it is. What? You can get one from 195 bucks?
- SPSpeaker
That's just modern reproduction.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, reproductions.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What about a real one?
- SPSpeaker
Down here.
- JRJoe Rogan
Antique ones. Uh, 17th century Barbary Wars antique pirate flintlock pistol recently sold for $416. That's it?
- 19:50 – 27:00
Kids’ fitness, military eligibility, and outrage over draft/conscription talk
- JRJoe Rogan
say that 77% of American kids can't pass the physical-
- SPSpeaker
I-
- JRJoe Rogan
... to get into the military
- SPSpeaker
... I believe it, man. Just based on my own experience. Like, I remember the presidential fitness test. Like, that's a, that's a bad memory of mine, just hanging on the [laughs] the pull-up bar in front of all my, my classmates and not being able to do one pull-up. Just hanging there.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is the presidential fitness test?
- SPSpeaker
Um, it's something they did when I was a kid. It's like they wanted to make sure that you could do, like, 10 pushups or however many pull-ups or whatever.
- JRJoe Rogan
How many pull-ups do you have to do for the presidential fitness test?
- SPSpeaker
Uh, well, there's different standard, but they literally... This was going on last week. They just started it up again. Donald Trump had, uh, like, Bryson DeChambeau in the White House with a couple guys, Gary Player, another golfer.
- JRJoe Rogan
For kids?
- SPSpeaker
Well, they had kids in there also.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's funny.
- SPSpeaker
Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's funny because you'd... I'd, I'd go, "Hey, why don't you do it?"
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
I mean-
- SPSpeaker
Let me see you doing shit up, bro
- SPSpeaker
... 22 pushups for a 10-year-old-
- JRJoe Rogan
22 pushups?
- SPSpeaker
... for boys.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a lot.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, 45 curl-ups. That's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Six pull-ups, that's a lot. What's a curl-up?
- SPSpeaker
With the other way, like biceps. Uh, hands, you know, pull up with your hands over.
- JRJoe Rogan
45?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Come on.
- SPSpeaker
That's a lot. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wait a minute.
- 27:00 – 39:08
Ozempic/GLP-1s as appetite and addiction suppressants—plus scary side effects
- SPSpeaker
My dad did Ozempic, and he said, he said, "Man, you know," like, "you can eat through that."
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
He's like, "You can..." He's like, "You can just keep going. I mean, you won't feel great, but you know, it curbs your appetite, but you can, you can get it down."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, Tim talked about it 'cause he did it, and he said it didn't just stop his desire for food, it stopped his desire for everything, which I've heard. Um, so there's some people that think there's some good in these GLP-1s for addiction, um, because it curbs whatever that is as well. So it can help people with all kind, all kinds of addictions too, not just, like, food addictions, alcohol, but gambling. Like, weird stuff.
- SPSpeaker
I heard that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
I did... I actually, I was doing it for a minute, and it was around the time that I was like... One of the times I was trying to quit drinking and I was working on a record, and, um, I was trying it out, and it actually curbed my desire for a drink.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
What else did it do?
- SPSpeaker
Gave me really bad stomach cramps.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. And also, I mean, that was, like, before I really... I just... I don't know. At that, at that time in my life, I just wasn't really concerned about what I put in my body, you know? I say that while I'm smoking a cigarette, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- SPSpeaker
... you know? [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
But dude, you're, you're smoking natural spirits. I think those are-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... safe and effective. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. You know, additive-free.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Um, I just, uh, I always wonder about these things when things come along that give people an easy fix. Like, okay, maybe it works, or maybe there's some sort of side effect that's gonna fuck you up for the rest of your life, and for some people there is. I mean, some people are experiencing all kinds of wild side effects.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Stomach paralysis is one of them. Um, Brian Simpson got pancreatitis from it.
- SPSpeaker
Really?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
Hm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, he was sick in bed for like two weeks. It fucked him up. Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Well, yeah. I mean, the long-term effects, like, you just have no idea 'cause it's new.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
I've also heard that the problem is the dosages are too high, and what... You know, when you go into a doctor, they give you a standard dosage, and the way to do it, some people feel, is to make a much smaller dose than what they're prescribing, and that that's what you need. You just need a little bit of a curb to it, not, like, a complete cessation of all desire to eat.
- 39:08 – 43:09
Voice survival, aging legends, and Willie Nelson’s mysterious truck fleet
- SPSpeaker
I've got, I've, I've gotten a couple steroid shots, like, before a show, like, if my voice goes out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, what kind? Is it, like, a cortisone or...?
- SPSpeaker
I guess that's what it is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
It's like that one that they shoot in your ass cheek.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm. What does that do, like, for your voice, when your voice goes?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, just, just brings you back.
- JRJoe Rogan
Man, it's gotta be rough when a fucking singer loses their voice.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, I mean, people have asked me before, like, what my warm up routine is, and, like, I've never had one. And I really-
- JRJoe Rogan
A few cigarettes. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] A couple cigarettes. It used to be a shot of whiskey. Um, if I was really in dire straits, I would take, uh, like, a handful of sugar-free gummy bears and put, uh, boiling water on that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- SPSpeaker
And then the gummy bears would, like, coat my throat.
- JRJoe Rogan
Huh.
- SPSpeaker
With, like, honey, ginger, lemon.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Hot water and lemon is a really good one.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
There's something about that that eases-
- SPSpeaker
But really it's, like, time off is what fucks my voice up more than anything.
- JRJoe Rogan
Time off?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really? Oh, so, like, your vocal cords get out of shape?
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Interesting.
- SPSpeaker
'Cause it's hard to, like, keep them up, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- SPSpeaker
Unless you're, like, going in your garage and screaming for two hours a night, [laughs] you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy. I never thought about it like that. Like, your vocal cords are essentially a muscle like any other-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- JRJoe Rogan
... and they develop over time, and you get endurance. That makes sense.
- 43:09 – 55:03
Weed legalization, Texas loopholes, and getting wrecked by THC sprays/edibles
- JRJoe Rogan
It should be. [sighs] I mean, they just made it Schedule 3, okay? So what that means is... And I mean, list- it's a great step in the right direction. I'm very happy that the president did that. It really should be regulated the same way alcohol is.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It should be for adult use-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... 21 and older. It shouldn't be... Maybe, I wonder what the issue i- well, I'm sure there's a bunch of issues, right? There's, like, lobbies that are trying to keep it illegal. Like, there's the alcohol lobby that doesn't want it legal 'cause it cuts down on alcohol sales, and I know they lobby to try to make sure those laws stay in place. And then unfortunately, you have prison guard unions that lobby for it, which is fucked.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right? They wanna keep their job, and so the way they keep their job is to keep people locked up, and the w- the way they keep people locked up is keep laws that don't make sense. Like, like weed-
- SPSpeaker
Ugh, that's fucked up
- JRJoe Rogan
... Fucked up. That's a, that's an evil fucking... The, it's, it just doesn't make any sense. If you can buy alcohol, you should be able... Like, I'm not saying you should drink alcohol. You don't drink alcohol anymore. Like I said, I took months off. It's like, you should have some self-control, and I know some people don't, but get your shit together. You should... But other people are fine with alcohol. They go to the bar, have a drink or two, go home, go out to dinner, have a drink, go at home, have a drink while they're watching TV, and they're fine.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It should be a personal choice. No adult should be able to tell you what you can and can't do, and be able to lock you up in a fucking cage if you don't listen. That's nuts. And in a free country, and this country is as free as it gets in this world, there's no way weed should be illegal. It should be regulated, and it should be only for people that are adults, where, you know, you have to be 21 to be able to buy it. It's... Look, it's never stopped kids from getting alcohol. They, they still get alcohol. It's not stopping kids right now from getting weed. They can still get weed. But if it was legal and regulated, first of all, we'd get taxes from it, and that would be huge for every state. You'd get a, a, a ton of tax money that you're not getting right now, and also you would keep people from getting locked up for their own personal choices, which is just insane.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, not a lot of people get locked up for personal use these days. That's pretty rare. But there's still, there's just way too many laws.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. I mean, it, it's interesting too, like, if you have, like, um, like CBD flower-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... like, technically that's legal.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- SPSpeaker
So, like, if you just put some of your cannabis in a CBD container, like, are there ways to, like, test that on the side of the road, like if you get pulled and they search your car?
- JRJoe Rogan
Not on the side of the road, but they could confiscate it and then test it, I think. But there's weird things about, like, legalization of... I was watching a YouTube video about what Texas' laws were, and Texas' laws are the amount of THC by volume. So the thing about that is if you get, like, gummies-
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm
- JRJoe Rogan
... like, a, a 10 milligram gummy will pass that by volume and be legal. So are you saying that people can take 10 milligram THC gummies and that's legal?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because they'll fuck you up. Like a, if you don't smoke weed, a 10 milligram THC gummy will have you going, "Ooh, oh, oh."
- SPSpeaker
Dude, I mean-
- JRJoe Rogan
Take two of those and who knows what's gonna happen to you.
- SPSpeaker
I just watched this movie that [laughs] uh, a friend of mine was in this movie, um, Lainey Wilson, and we watched the movie, and I don't wanna spoil the movie for anybody, but it turns out that the girl, like, she went to jail 'cause she was impaired while driving, and she was impaired by weed gummies, and I was like, "That's kind of gay."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm. Well, depends on how much you took.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
If you take 200 milligrams and get behind the wheel, you're not gonna be exactly sure what the road is doing.
- SPSpeaker
200 milligrams is a lot, yeah.
- 55:03 – 1:04:07
Why drugs became Schedule I: Nixon-era politics, psychedelics, salvia, and reality-bending experiences
- SPSpeaker
When did it, um, when did it get scheduled as, uh, Schedule 1?
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, the whole Schedule 1 thing, this is, this is what I talked about when I went to the White House recently.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is a hilarious thing to say for a retard like me. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
That I helped get things scheduled. I mean, when it all goes down in the history books, they, they, they attach my name to this, it's gonna be really f- confusing. They're gonna be like, "What, fucking that guy?"
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
"What? How? What the fuck happened?" So when, in 1970, the Richard Nixon administration passed the Controlled Substances Act, and it made, uh, DMT, psilocybin, LSD, all these different things, it made them Schedule 1. So the, the, the, the idea is that there was no bene- including ibogaine, which is crazy, uh, which ha- means it has no medical benefit, and, uh, harmful and addictive, all these different qualities that they attach to it. But the only reason they did that was to target the civil rights movement. The civil rights movement and the anti-war movement. That's what they were doing. They didn't like the fact that these people were causing trouble, and then they were organizing, you know, marches and doing all these different things that were disrupting the government. And there was also this movement where people like, "Why are we living the way we're living?"
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, this was the '60s. Like, "Why are we doing what we're doing?" Like, "Well, I don't wanna be like my parents. They're not happy," you know? "I wanna live a life that's, like, freer. I wanna be filled with love and joy, and I wanna, you know, have a good time and follow the Grateful Dead around." Like, so-
- SPSpeaker
Mm
- JRJoe Rogan
... a lot of people in government were very concerned with this new movement. And if you go and ... Like, music is a great example. Like, if you look at the music of the 1950s, and then you look at the music of the 1960s, like what the fuck happened?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, if you look at the music of 2016 and the music of 2026, not much difference.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right? It's all great. It's all ... But it's like, it's not, there's not some revolutionary, crazy new change.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
But you saw that from 1959 to 1969, there is a radical difference, a radical difference. 1950, and you got like, you go from Buddy Holly to Jimi Hendrix.
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
You're like, "Okay, what the fuck happened? Something crazy must have happened." And it's drugs.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's psychedelic drugs.
- SPSpeaker
It's like the stoned ape theory-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... in, in, you know, our modern society.
- JRJoe Rogan
Exactly.
- SPSpeaker
You would see it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Exactly, and this terrified the administration, and they were really worried that they were gonna completely u- lose control of the country. And so they passed this Controlled Substances Act, and that happened in 1970, and from that time on, we've been fucked. You know, for 56 fucking years, we've been under the grip of this stupid fucking law that was passed by the Nixon administration that didn't make any sense. Some of the drugs that they added to it aren't even psychoactive. They just threw a bunch of stuff in there, and they missed a bunch of potent ones.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They missed 5-methoxy-DMT. They missed 5-MeO-DMT, which is one of the most potent psychedelics, if not the most potent psychedelic. You used to be able to buy that online.
- 1:04:07 – 1:30:16
Dream symbolism, ‘snakes’ in the music business, and the duality that fuels great art
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. And just the symbolism of dreams, too. I've been having a lot of crazy dreams lately.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like what?
- SPSpeaker
I dream about snakes a lot, which is a good-
- JRJoe Rogan
Snakes
- SPSpeaker
... it's a good sign.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. Dreaming about snakes evidently just represents, like, shedding your skin, going into something new.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- SPSpeaker
You know, growing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Or you're surrounded by people who wanna get you.
- SPSpeaker
Or maybe that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Which-
- JRJoe Rogan
Snakes
- SPSpeaker
... both, both can be true. You know the music business. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
There are a lot of snakes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Isn't it every business, though?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. I mean, just the idea, like, the business side is just so in contrast to, like, the artistic sensibility.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- SPSpeaker
You know? An artist is supposed to be... Not supposed to be, but just, like, psychological, our makeup is more just, like, open and just more just, like, giving and wanting to share your craft with somebody, and more emotional, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Um, and then having to be like a shark and having to think like these snakes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Contracts.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
Sign at the dotted line, Marcus.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
You're gonna make so much money, Marcus.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
It's only seven years.
- 1:30:16 – 1:57:39
SSRIs, microdosing, suicidal ideation, and social media as mental poison
- SPSpeaker
That's a, that's the journey I'm on.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
You know? I'm on antidepressants, and I, I wanna get off them. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which ones are you on?
- SPSpeaker
I'm on Cymbalta.
- JRJoe Rogan
What does that one do?
- SPSpeaker
Well-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is it an SSRI?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
So it basically just kind of, um... It's for a chemical imbalance, you know? But, like, the best work that I did to combat my depression and anxiety and stuff was microdosing, you know, mushrooms.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- SPSpeaker
Like, that's, that's the most progress that I'd seen-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- SPSpeaker
... in my life. And, um, I'm gonna figure out some kind of strategy because, you know, like, being on antidepressants and them telling you, like, "Whoa, don't just stop taking them all at once or, you know, you could have seizures and shit," I'm like, I don't like that. I don't wanna be, like, you know, enslaved by a drug, by a pharmaceutical drug, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I'm, I'm-
- SPSpeaker
And it's, like, also, like, now you just take this the rest of your life. It's like, what's the end result here?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, Theo Von's going through the exact same thing, and last time he was on the podcast, he was explaining it to me. And it freaks me out because I know Theo has had conversations before, like even publicly. He had a Netflix taping and, and it didn't go well. It was like they actually nev- they shelved it. They never used it. And, you know, there was all these stories from people that were there saying he bombed. I think he just had a kind of a breakdown. And then he was talking to the crowd, and there's a video of it where he said, you know, the people were saying, "Hey, we still love you." He goes, "Thank you. Look, I'm just, I'm trying not to take my own life. That's what I'm trying to do right now."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And like you hear stuff like that and you just go like, "Oh, Jesus Christ." I've known too many people that I didn't think were gonna kill themselves and then did. And then he goes down these spirals where he starts talking about world events and freaking out. I'm like, "Oh, Jesus Christ." Like, "I gotta help this dude." And so I send him things about people getting off of them, and apparently there are some doctors that specialize in getting people off of them. But here's the thing about that chemical imbalance thing: that's not real. They, they used to think that that was what these things do, that they treated a chemical imbalance. But then recently, studies have shown that they're, that is not what they do. They don't exactly know what they do, and they kinda numb you in some sort of a way that helps some people. And I've had some friends, and I don't, you know, I don't wanna make any blanket statements because I've had some friends that were suicidal, um, Ari's one of them, and he got on SSRIs and it helped him. He got on... He tried a bunch of different ones, found one that worked, got on track, and then his career started taking off. And then as his career started taking off, he started feeling much better. He was on a good, positive path in his life, and then he slowly weaned himself off of those and now he's off of them. So I think that might have saved his life. I also know other people that have been on their, on those things and taken their own lives, so I don't know, 'cause that's part of one of the side effects is suicidal ideation.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's one of the side effects. But see if you can find anything about the chemical imbalance not being true, the chemical imbalance reason for taking SSRIs. It's th- they, they've measured like levels of dopamine and serotonin in people that take... It's not, that's not what it's doing. And they don't even exactly know why it works, and it's a huge business. That's part of the problem, and it's also part of the problem these doctors are incentivized to prescribe people these things. I had a friend that went to a psychiatrist and, um, was talking about their life and things not doing well, and immediately the doctor tried to prescribe him SSRIs.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right away. Like right away. "Here's something that you're never gonna get off. I'm gonna give it to you right away." First meeting. And he was like, "Well, I don't... I mean, shouldn't I like try exercise? Shouldn't I try a diet? Shouldn't I try just drinking water?" And you know, like the... I, I read something about like magnesium and red light therapy being far more effective than even-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... SSRIs. There is no good evidence for the simple chemical imbalance like low serotonin that directly causes depression or automatically means someone should take an SSRI. But SSRIs do change brain chemistry in ways that can help some people. Um, but so for decades, depression was popularly explained as a serotonin imbalance in the brain. Large reviews of the research have not found convincing evidence that people with depression have consistently low serotonin or a specific measurable imbalance that explains their symptoms. Experts now des- describe the chemical imbalance story as an oversimplified or outdated way of explaining a much more complex condition. And here's the other thing about depression. It has to be connected to the state of your life. Like if you have a terrible job, you're in a bad relationship, you have abusive parents, you know, and you live in a shitty neighborhood, who, why, why would you be happy?
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
"Oh, I'm depressed." "Oh, you need a pill." No. Do you? Is that what you need?
- SPSpeaker
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's quite possible that you're eating processed foods and you have all these other things that we talked about, shitty life, shitty house, shitty job, shitty neighborhood, shitty parents. Maybe you just need to make your life positive.
- 1:57:39 – 2:10:36
Marcus’s musical origins, church vs. ‘secular’ music, and touring chaos (Brent Hinds story)
- JRJoe Rogan
James Brown was an original. When you first started doing music, how old were you?
- SPSpeaker
Um, man, I was probably, like, two or three years old when I started-
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- SPSpeaker
... fucking with it, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm. My grandfather played, my uncles. My dad still plays, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. So were they professional, or they just did it for fun?
- SPSpeaker
My grandfather, so he was a career serviceman. He was in the Air Force, and he was a staff master sergeant, and he played honky-tonks on the weekend. And he was in charge of booking all the NCO clubs on the base. So he would book, like, Charlie Pride or Johnny Cash, Barbara Mandrell, and his band would open up and then back them up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm. So he was a country and western purist. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you get to go on, to any of those shows when you were young?
- SPSpeaker
No. Well, so this was, this was back in the '60s.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- SPSpeaker
My dad's 73, I think now. He was born in '53. And, um, I was born when my dad was, like, 43.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- SPSpeaker
So by the time I came along, everybody was ... You know, a lot of my family traded in, like, uh, I think they associated music with a lot of the secular lifestyle. So they kind of, when they all got born again and into the church, that's around the time I came around, you know. So the music was really associated with church, but I was really interested in that other stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Isn't that interesting? Like, I wonder why there's a division.
- SPSpeaker
You know, I think about it a lot, and I think that's the closest you can get to divinity-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right
- SPSpeaker
... you know, is music really. Um, allowing yourself to get that close to something. And the conviction that you feel in a church, you know, that's a good common thing for everybody to get on the same level. And, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's part of the church experience, of everybody having it together.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Experiencing it together as a group. L- Being together live in a room with, uh, a great musician on stage when everyone's enjoying it together is very much a transcendent experience.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It really is. It's-
- SPSpeaker
Drinking the Kool-Aid, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. It's like, there's a beautiful moment where you're all experiencing it together, and you're all clapping and cheering, or you're all dancing and singing along. It's a beautiful moment.
- SPSpeaker
It really is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Music is like a drug, man.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- 2:10:36 – 2:30:59
How creators get inspired: films in the studio, Americana mythology, and taboo shifts in sex vs. violence
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm, I'm interested in checking it out. One, I, I love music for inspiration, you know? It's, um, it's one of the unique art forms that, uh, it, it inspires you to create.
- SPSpeaker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Inspires you to go do things. You know, whenever I see a, a live band or a live performer, I can't wait to go do something. I wanna, I wanna go write, I wanna go perform, I wanna... Paul M- Paul Mooney, who's a great comedian.
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you know who Paul Mooney is?
- SPSpeaker
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, he used to write for Richard Pryor. He was one of the real OGs back in the early days when I came to the Comedy Store. I was kinda blown- He was one of the guys I was always nervous around being around till he liked me.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like, you know what I mean? Like-
- SPSpeaker
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... Paul Mooney hates you, you're fucked. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
But, uh, he gave me that advice once early on. He said, "If you wanna entertain people," he said, "Go be entertained."
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
He goes, "You wanna entertain, honey? Go be entertained, homie. Go see some other shit."
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
He goes, "Go see something that gets you. Try, go, go see a great movie."
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"Go, go see a band. Go see something."
- SPSpeaker
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
"Be entertained."
- SPSpeaker
That's what-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... that's what my process is like in the studio, man. Like, this last record we did, like, we had a projector, and we'd play, like, you know, uh, Giant with James Dean, or we'd play, like, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow
- SPSpeaker
... Easy Rider or Big Lebowski or, like, films that, like, inspired us, films that we, like, really gravitated towards. And I, all the while, you know, waking up in the morning and reading East of Eden and just, like, some of these great architects of Americana-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... and just, like, being inspired on every turn, watching live concert footage of bands that we love, Marshall Tucker Band, Skynyrd-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm
- SPSpeaker
... whatever the case. Um, just inundating yourself with inspiring stuff, you know?
- 2:30:59 – 2:40:58
VR: avoid porn, shoot zombies instead—plus why Marcus skipped video games and mastered guitar
- SPSpeaker
People are weird.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'll tell you one thing I've never tried and I'm not going to, I don't want it, nope, not gonna do it, is VR porn.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause Duncan told me, "Dude, have you ever seen VR porn? It's fucking amazing." Like, not gonna do it. I'm not gonna sit there with fucking goggles on jacking off. [laughs]
- SPSpeaker
Joe hasn't left his house in about six months. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs] I mean, can you imagine you're watching porn and the people are fucking 20 feet high in front of you-
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
... and they're, they're banging. And if you can move around in it, like you can move around in other VR.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You like, you can get like really close to watch the dick go in there, like...
- SPSpeaker
[laughs] That's one thing I haven't tried either.
- JRJoe Rogan
VR porn?
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good for you. Stay away.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
VR in general is weird. You know what's really great though is VR games.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, yeah?
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you ever done any VR games?
- SPSpeaker
Hmm-mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know what Sandbox is? You ever heard of Sand- Sandbox? Sandbox, they have one in AustinUh, they had one in Wooden- Woodland Hills right down the street from our old studio in LA, and it is a g- a place where you go, it's like a big ass warehouse, and you go to these rooms in the warehouse, and they have fans set up, and it's all, like, these, th- these walls. Like, it's all, uh, boundaries. They put a haptic feedback vest on you and goggles, and they give you rifles, and they're plastic rifles, and then you get dropped into this virtual reality world where you fight zombies.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's fucking dope.
- SPSpeaker
That sounds-
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude, it's nuts. When the zombies attack you, they run at you, they claw you, you see blood splatter in front of your eyes, and you gun them down. It's fucking cra- There's a, there's one called Deadwood Mansion. That's my favorite. And the Deadwood Man... There's a couple different Deadwood games. I think there's two or three now. I think there's three. I think there's three. There's three zombie games that you can play.
- SPSpeaker
That's in LA?
- JRJoe Rogan
Three different ones. No, it's here.
- SPSpeaker
Here?
- JRJoe Rogan
They have one in Austin.
- SPSpeaker
Oh, shit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's out at, um, [clicks tongue] the Domain?
Episode duration: 2:47:02
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