Joe Rogan Experience #2504 - Skylar Grey

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 1:13

   Music that hits deep: funerals, “Coming Home,” and why human emotion matters

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] Great to see you.

   2. SGSkylar Grey0:13

      Great to see you.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      What's happening?

   4. SGSkylar Grey0:15

      You know, putting out an album.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      So this is the, the power of music. Um, I told my wife that you were coming on, and she s- I don't wanna get emotional. She said if I die, on my funeral, I want her song I'm Coming Home.

   6. SGSkylar Grey0:33

      Really?

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:34

      Yeah.

   8. SGSkylar Grey0:34

      Oh, my God.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:34

      I was like, "Ooh." I was like, "That's a heavy thought."

   10. SGSkylar Grey0:38

       Wow.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       And then I listened to it in the gym, and I was like, "God damn." I listened to the version where you were, um, on the piano. It was like a solo concert. And I was like, "God." That's such a... It's such a great song, but it's such a d- such a crazy thought-

   12. SGSkylar Grey0:55

       Yeah

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       ... that someone would want-

   14. SGSkylar Grey0:58

       Wow

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       ... a very specific-

   16. SGSkylar Grey1:00

       Crazy

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       ... song.

   18. SGSkylar Grey1:02

       Man. [laughs]

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       You know? It's heavy.

   20. SGSkylar Grey1:03

       Heavy way to start the podcast. [laughs]

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       I know, but, but that's, uh, you know, that's the emotion of real music.

   22. SGSkylar Grey1:12

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:12

       You know?

   24. SGSkylar Grey1:12

       Mm-hmm.

3. 1:13 – 5:24

   AI songs, deepfakes, and the ‘blurry’ boundary between real and fake

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:13

      It's like you sent me a text message about, uh, AI, you know, because you sent me one of your songs.

   2. SGSkylar Grey1:18

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:18

      And you're like, "AI is never gonna recreate this."

   4. SGSkylar Grey1:23

      I said something like, "I don't think it's capable of writing stuff with this much emotion yet."

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:28

      Yeah. Well, it's not real, you know?

   6. SGSkylar Grey1:30

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:31

      It sounds cool. That's what AI does. They, they... There's cool songs that come from AI. But there's always gonna be, and I completely agree with you, there's always gonna be a thing where you know a person wrote it, that they sat down and they wrote it, and there's this connection with their, their spirit and their creativity that comes out, and that's what people love about music-

   8. SGSkylar Grey1:56

      Yeah

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:56

      ... other than stuff that sound- I like, I like AI music 'cause it sounds cool, but I know what it is. I know it's just a robot.

   10. SGSkylar Grey2:04

       I mean, I think it's, you know, sometimes it's good for certain things, but the type of music that I make personally, um, it's, like, very therapeutic for me to write. I always am writing from, like, a true emotion, so, um, yeah, each, each type of-

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:22

       Marshall's giving me true emotion right now. [laughs]

   12. SGSkylar Grey2:24

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:26

       Marshall's gonna be here with us

   14. SGSkylar Grey2:26

       It all has its place, though. I think AI is an interesting... It's just, like, another tool, I feel like. That, um, you know, when Auto-Tune first came out, people were bitching about that, and even, like, my first albums I recorded with my mom when I was a little kid, we did it on two-inch tape, you know? So there was no computer involved. So then computers got in- introduced, and people were bitching about that like, "This isn't real music."

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:53

       Yeah.

   16. SGSkylar Grey2:53

       You know? It's just, like, all these technological advances, to me, I see them as just tools that creatives can use to get their vision across.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:02

       What was, uh, what was Peter Frampton using back in the day? It was, like, a tube or something, right?

   18. SGSkylar Grey3:07

       I have no idea.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:09

       The... Y- Do you remember, like... Do you, you, you know what that stuff is, Jamie, right?

   20. SPSpeaker3:14

       Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I think it was, he had the Talk Box.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:16

       It's, like, a tube you put in your mouth or something?

   22. SPSpeaker3:18

       Yeah, so it's, like, a straw, and, like, the microphone picks up the sound. So the sound would go through the tube into your mouth, and then the microphone picks that up, and you're using your mouth as the-

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       'Cause I remember people hating that. Like, way back in the day, people were hating that like, "That's not his real voice." Like, "What is he doing-

   24. SGSkylar Grey3:33

       Yeah

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       ... why is he putting it through that thing?" You know?

   26. SGSkylar Grey3:36

       I don't know.

   27. JRJoe Rogan3:38

       But there's always... I mean, look, there's always gonna be tools that people use to enhance creativity, but-

   28. SGSkylar Grey3:44

       Right

   29. JRJoe Rogan3:44

       ... the thing that's weird now is that they're making entire songs. Like, they can make a-

   30. SGSkylar Grey3:48

       I know, it's crazy
4. 5:24 – 6:43

   Why imperfections will make human-made art more valuable

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:24

      ... but that, I think it makes you really appreciate actual things, like real physical things-

   2. SGSkylar Grey5:30

      Yeah, I agree with that

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:32

      ... like real, real connection with people, real art.

   4. SGSkylar Grey5:35

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:35

      You know? I think that's what's gonna happen a lot with AI, like people's actual artwork, like getting something like, like this, uh, chimp sculpt. This is made with, uh, thimbles, cymbals with ziljans.

   6. SGSkylar Grey5:47

      Oh, yeah. I see that.

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:48

      Yeah. This guy, uh, Shane Against the Machine, he makes really-

   8. SGSkylar Grey5:52

      That's dope

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:52

      ... yeah, he's an artist and makes cool stuff, but, like, I know a guy made that.

   10. SGSkylar Grey5:55

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan5:55

       You know? Like, when I'm fucking around with this, like, this guy made it. I know, like-

   12. SGSkylar Grey5:59

       Yeah. I think it'll make us value real human-made art more, and-... value, like, nuance and mistakes and things not being perfect, you know?

   13. JRJoe Rogan6:12

       Yeah. I mean, that's part of what's relatable-

   14. SGSkylar Grey6:16

       Exactly

   15. JRJoe Rogan6:16

       ... about art, is it, and it's part of what makes us appreciate that it did come from a person. You know, like when you look at a really cool paint- like that painting. Like, that doesn't, that's not perfect.

   16. SGSkylar Grey6:27

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan6:27

       It's not supposed to be perfect.

   18. SGSkylar Grey6:30

       I love that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan6:30

       It's just supposed to be an expression.

   20. SGSkylar Grey6:31

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan6:32

       You know? It's, it's like a person's work. It's like their, whatever they are, their thing, their essence is in that canvas.

   22. SGSkylar Grey6:40

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan6:40

       You know?

   24. SGSkylar Grey6:42

       Yep.

5. 6:43 – 8:57

   Skylar’s childhood as a working musician in Wisconsin

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:43

      How'd you get started doing music? How old were you? You said you recorded with your mom when you were little.

   2. SGSkylar Grey6:47

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:48

      How old were you?

   4. SGSkylar Grey6:49

      I was six when I did my first show.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:52

      Whoa.

   6. SGSkylar Grey6:53

      Yeah. So she was in, like, folk bands and stuff, and she also plays Celtic harp. And my dad was in a barbershop quartet. And my great-grandma was an opera singer. So I just was, like, born into a, an extremely musical family. And, um, when I was, like, two, uh, we were singing Happy Birthday to one of my aunts and I started singing a harmony, and my mom was like, "What is going on? How is a two-year-old singing harmony?" I wasn't even able to, like, say all the words, but the notes I was singing were, like, the harmony part. And then with all her bands that she was playing with all the time, I would be at the rehearsals and chiming in, and then they would, like, bring me up on stage to do little guest appearances and, um, it was just very clear that that's what I wanted to do.

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:42

      Wow.

   8. SGSkylar Grey7:43

      And so when I was six, we put together our first, like, hour-long set, and I played at a library, me and my mom together [laughs] .

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:52

      Whoa. Where was this?

   10. SGSkylar Grey7:53

       And, uh, it was a Mother's Day show. Madison, Wisconsin.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:56

       Oh.

   12. SGSkylar Grey7:57

       I'm from Mazomanie. It's like a 1,500-person, really small village, basically, in Wisconsin. Um, and so then I just loved it, and so we started touring around the Midwest and played a lot of really random venues like, um, elementary schools, libraries, uh, women's health conventions. I think the, one of the biggest shows I ever did was actually a Boy Scouts thing, and it was, like, 1,500 Boy Scouts. [laughs]

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:31

       How old were you?

   14. SGSkylar Grey8:32

       [laughs] Um, I, so I did this from the time I was six till I went solo, I think, when I was 12 or-

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:39

       [laughs]

   16. SGSkylar Grey8:39

       [laughs]

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:43

       That's crazy.

   18. SGSkylar Grey8:44

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:45

       That's an interesting life, though, to have your path carved out, or at least the direction-

   20. SGSkylar Grey8:50

       Yeah

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:51

       ... at a very young age.

   22. SGSkylar Grey8:52

       Yeah. And it wasn't like I was, like, a Disney star or something, so it wasn't, like-

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:55

       Right

   24. SGSkylar Grey8:55

       ... on a big scale. It was-

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:56

       It was organic

6. 8:57 – 11:20

   Going solo at 12, buying a grand piano, and breaking away from mom’s career

   1. SGSkylar Grey8:57

      ... it was small and... But I made a decent money and, um, I mean, for a kid. And I saved it up, and then when I was 12, I bought my first grand piano with the, the money I'd saved up.

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:09

      Oh, wow.

   3. SGSkylar Grey9:10

      Yeah. And so then I started writing songs at the piano, like pop songs and stuff, solo. And it wasn't cool at that time to be singing with my mom anymore. Like, you know, kids get really mean in middle school. [laughs]

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:24

      [laughs]

   5. SGSkylar Grey9:25

      And they would, like, make fun of me, 'cause we were singing the silliest, like, like, We Are the Colors of the Rainbow, and Never Smoked Tobacco, and My Grandma Slid Down the Mountain. These are some of the song titles. [laughs] So it was very silly, and I got made fun of, and so I wanted to sing pop songs. And, uh, I went solo, and my mom was not stoked about that. 'Cause, like, it had become her career-

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:48

      Oh, wow

   7. SGSkylar Grey9:48

      ... singing with me. Like, we, I would miss, like, s- I would miss so much school. Um, sometimes I had six shows a week. So it was, like, a lot.

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:59

      Hey, lie down, buddy.

   9. SGSkylar Grey10:00

      But-

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:01

       You're huffin' and puffin'.

   11. SGSkylar Grey10:02

       [laughs]

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:03

       Give me kiss. Come here. Give me kisses and lie down. Come here. Come here, buddy. Give me kiss. Let everybody see you. Come on up. Give me a kiss.

   13. SGSkylar Grey10:10

       Aw, look at that.

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:12

       I love you too. Now lie down. Go down, buddy. Go lie down. Um, so when you say your mom wasn't stoked about that, was that, like, real friction between you guys?

   15. SGSkylar Grey10:22

       No. I mean, she was really supportive, but, like, like I said, it had b- become her career, singing with me. So it was like she had to adjust her whole lifestyle and everything for that.

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:34

       Wow.

   17. SGSkylar Grey10:35

       You know?

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:36

       That had to be a hard decision for you, then, knowing that that's gonna bum your mom out.

   19. SGSkylar Grey10:41

       Yes and no. I c- I just, like, I was so driven.

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:46

       W- at 12?

   21. SGSkylar Grey10:47

       Oh, yeah. Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:50

       Well, what was the feeling? Like, when you say you're so driven, like, what was it inside you that made you wanna-

   23. SGSkylar Grey10:56

       I just loved making music and performing and writing. And, um, I knew I just, there was no, like, option of anything else I would do with my life. And I knew I wasn't gonna sing with my mom my whole life, you know? So I had to at some time-

   24. JRJoe Rogan11:15

       You had to cut her loose.

   25. SGSkylar Grey11:15

       Yeah. [laughs]

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:15

       [laughs] At 12.

   27. SGSkylar Grey11:18

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan11:18

       That's so crazy. God, that's wild.

7. 11:20 – 20:56

   Dropping out, proving doubters wrong, and the bigger problem with schooling

   1. SGSkylar Grey11:20

      And I hated school so much, and I begged to be homeschooled, and we couldn't figure that out. So I ended up dropping out, um, when I was 16.

   2. JRJoe Rogan11:33

      Why'd you hate it so much?

   3. SGSkylar Grey11:36

      Um, because I was so focused on music, I felt like I was wasting my time in school.

   4. JRJoe Rogan11:41

      Wow.

   5. SGSkylar Grey11:42

      Um, yeah. There was this teacher that, my algebra teacher, um, she said something to me that kind of lit a fire under my ass, in a good way. Um, she told me music isn't a career. And I was like, "I'll show you, bitch." [laughs]

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:04

      [laughs] God, there's s-

   7. SGSkylar Grey12:05

      And so I dropped out, and I never went back after she said that

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:08

      ... there's so many teachers that have-Influence over children that say things like that, and it's such a crazy irresponsible thing to say.

   9. SGSkylar Grey12:19

      Yeah. 'Cause I had, I had missed, um, or I hadn't done my homework because I had a show the night before this, and then we had a test, and I aced the test. I was a good student. I had like a 3.9. Um, but I aced the test and, but she was like, "But you gotta do your homework just like everybody else in this class." And I was like, "I had a show. I couldn't, I didn't have time." And she was like, "Well, music's not a career."

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:43

       That's such a crazy thing to say-

   11. SGSkylar Grey12:45

       [laughs]

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:45

       ... 'cause it's clearly a career.

   13. SGSkylar Grey12:46

       Uh.

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:46

       Like, why do you listen to music? Who's making it?

   15. SGSkylar Grey12:49

       I know

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:49

       When you go to a concert and people are paying, is there someone, is there someone on stage? Is that a career?

   17. SGSkylar Grey12:54

       Yeah, but you know-

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:54

       Like, what do you... What the fuck does that mean?

   19. SGSkylar Grey12:56

       Like, small town-

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:57

       It's not a career

   21. SGSkylar Grey12:57

       ... small town Midwest, it's like... I mean, I guess everywhere.

   22. JRJoe Rogan13:00

       It's everywhere.

   23. SGSkylar Grey13:00

       People push the go to school-

   24. JRJoe Rogan13:02

       Yeah

   25. SGSkylar Grey13:02

       ... you know, get a, get a good job. Um, and I just wasn't on that path ever.

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:09

       Well, it's pretty wild to be that focused at such an early age, but it is... There's, it's something fun about those kind of like, "I'll show you, bitch" stories. [laughs]

   27. SGSkylar Grey13:20

       Yeah. Like, I could have taken that and been like... I could have gone the other direction with that comment, you know?

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:26

       Right. You could have said, "Oh my God, I don't wanna be a loser."

   29. SGSkylar Grey13:28

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:28

       "I don't wanna be homeless."
8. 20:56 – 23:50

   Moving to LA at 17: culture shock, danger, and rapid hardening

   1. SGSkylar Grey20:56

      Especially when you're super young. Like I was when I first moved to LA, I was 17.

   2. JRJoe Rogan21:01

      Whoa. By yourself?

   3. SGSkylar Grey21:02

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan21:03

      Whoa.

   5. SGSkylar Grey21:04

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan21:04

      That's crazy.

   7. SGSkylar Grey21:05

      And I was, like, very green, small town, Midwest girl-

   8. JRJoe Rogan21:09

      Whoa

   9. SGSkylar Grey21:09

      ... just dropped in LA and, like-

   10. JRJoe Rogan21:11

       And really pretty.

   11. SGSkylar Grey21:13

       It was-

   12. JRJoe Rogan21:13

       That's a terrible combination

   13. SGSkylar Grey21:14

       ... oh, it was weird.

   14. JRJoe Rogan21:15

       Really pretty, 17.

   15. SGSkylar Grey21:17

       It was weird as fuck.

   16. JRJoe Rogan21:18

       Midwest. Oh, God.

   17. SGSkylar Grey21:21

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan21:21

       Look at you now, shaved head, tattoo on it. [laughs]

   19. SGSkylar Grey21:25

       [laughs] Yep.

   20. JRJoe Rogan21:28

       Yeah, you came out on the other end good, though. But isn't it true, though, that, like, like, those kind of experiences, like ex- experiencing, like, oddity and uncertainty and just, like, the, the weirdness of, like, moving to a place like LA when you're 17, like, when you get through it on the other end, you're a different person. You're a stronger person.

   21. SGSkylar Grey21:48

       For sure. I mean, every experience makes you stronger, right? So yeah, I just threw myself into this crazy mix in LA, and it was culture shock, like.

   22. JRJoe Rogan22:03

       So what year was this when you moved to LA?

   23. SGSkylar Grey22:04

       Um, so I was 17, so... and I was in the graduate, or I should have been in the graduating class of 2004. So I think it was 2003.

   24. JRJoe Rogan22:16

       So somewhere around that time.

   25. SGSkylar Grey22:17

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan22:17

       2003, 2004.

   27. SGSkylar Grey22:18

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan22:19

       Yeah.

   29. SGSkylar Grey22:20

       Yeah. And I lived with, um, the guitar player from Culture Club.

   30. JRJoe Rogan22:25

       Really?
9. 23:50 – 34:36

   From city collapse to wealth stats: Detroit, memes, and income inequality

   1. JRJoe Rogan23:50

      Yeah. Wow. LA in 2003 was still okay.

   2. SGSkylar Grey23:57

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan23:57

      It was, like, not bad, you know? There was still traffic and everything, but it hadn't gone completely sideways like-

   4. SGSkylar Grey24:05

      Yeah

   5. JRJoe Rogan24:05

      ... it is now. It's so weird when I go back, I'm like, "This is unrecognizable." It's, it doesn't seem like the same place. Every sign has a for l- every building has a for lease sign on it. It's like, this is nuts. Like, it's hard to believe that this is, that you're... Like, when you see things like Detroit-Did you ever see that movie Roger & Me?

   6. SGSkylar Grey24:24

      Mm-mm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan24:25

      It's a great movie. It's, uh, Michael Moore, and it's all about the collapse of the Detroit, um, automotive industry and how they moved all the plants to Mexico. And, um, when they did that, the entire economy of Detroit and Flint, Michigan, and all these areas just collapsed. Like, tens of thou- hundreds of thousands of people out of work [snaps fingers] instantaneously with no prospects. The industry was gone. And it's a v- horrific dis- depiction of what can happen when greedy people decide that they'll, they'll completely sabotage an entire city so they can make, you know, X amount more dollars and move all the factories to places where you can pay people a dollar a day or whatever the fuck they pay them. And, um, you know, I had seen that, but I was like, "Oh, that was, you know, 1980s or 1960s," whenever, when the, when, when the m- the place was booming. Like, Detroit was, at one point in time, I think the third richest city in the world.

   8. SGSkylar Grey25:32

      Whoa.

   9. JRJoe Rogan25:33

      Yeah. See if that's true. I'm pretty sure that's true. But, um, it was all just 'cause the automobile manufacturing. I mean, everything was made there, Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, all of our big cars, and it just [blows raspberry] gone.

   10. SGSkylar Grey25:48

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan25:49

       You know?

   12. SGSkylar Grey25:49

       Like a ghost town.

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:50

       Like a ghost town. And, you know, and when I visited Detroit to work, I'd be like, "Wow, this is crazy." You see trees growing through the middle of houses. The houses are collapsed.

   14. SGSkylar Grey26:01

       Wow.

   15. JRJoe Rogan26:01

       And like, literally, nobody took care of the house. It was abandoned, so trees grow through the roofs, and they're reclaiming these homes. You see ... You go by these gigantic, like, buildings, like industrial buildings, and all the windows are broken.

   16. SGSkylar Grey26:17

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan26:17

       Everything. No reliable historical source shows Detroit as the third richest city in the world. The common claim is actually that Detroit was the richest city in the world, or at least the U.S. was one of the highest living standards around 1950s, not third. Oh, so it was the richest?

   18. SGSkylar Grey26:33

       Whoa.

   19. SPSpeaker26:34

       Yeah, that's not true either.

   20. JRJoe Rogan26:35

       It's not... That's the common claim?

   21. SPSpeaker26:36

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan26:37

       Oh, what it actually was, very high medium household income, around 20% above U.S. average, and it's all because of the automotive industry.

   23. SGSkylar Grey26:44

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan26:44

       One of the highest home ownership rates in the country. Because of this, many commentators' and locals' histories, uh, describe Detroit as the wealthiest city in the U.S., and by some accounts, having the highest standard of living in the world in that era. Articles and tours about Detroit repeatedly refer to it as the wealthiest city in the world in the 1950- 50s, not as the third wealthiest. So is that true then, that it was the wealthiest city in the world?

   25. SPSpeaker27:11

       That's, I, no. No. They're just saying that.

   26. JRJoe Rogan27:14

       Tours about Detroit's history. Uh, the third richest city in the world line seems to come from its memes, social posts. Okay.

   27. SPSpeaker27:21

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan27:21

       These posts are often mix or exaggeration of real facts. Detroit truly was exceptionally rich by U.S. standards, but rankings like third in the world are not backed by clear, clearly documented global per capita income comparisons from that period.

   29. SGSkylar Grey27:38

       Well, so it was rich. We all know it was.

   30. JRJoe Rogan27:39

       It was very wealthy.
10. 34:36 – 41:05

    Ranch life realities: guardian dogs, coyotes, and losing chickens in Napa

    1. JRJoe Rogan34:36

       Well, you guys were saying you have, uh, one of them giant Caucasian shepherds.

    2. SGSkylar Grey34:41

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan34:41

       Is that what it is?

    4. SGSkylar Grey34:41

       It's a Central Asian shepherd. We have an alabai. I guess there's a lot of different, like, breeds under the Central Asian shepherd.

    5. JRJoe Rogan34:50

       They're all herding dogs, right? They'll, like, protect-

    6. SGSkylar Grey34:52

       It's a protection-

    7. JRJoe Rogan34:53

       Yeah

    8. SGSkylar Grey34:54

       ... livestock.

    9. JRJoe Rogan34:54

       From wolves.

    10. SGSkylar Grey34:55

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan34:56

        Fu- pull up a, the image of an alabai dog.

    12. SGSkylar Grey34:59

        Just Google wolf crusher.

    13. SPSpeaker35:02

        [laughs]

    14. JRJoe Rogan35:02

        Is that what they call them?

    15. SGSkylar Grey35:03

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan35:05

        How much does it weigh?

    17. SGSkylar Grey35:07

        She's actually on the smaller side. She's, like, 105 pounds or something.

    18. JRJoe Rogan35:10

        Oh, that is smaller.

    19. SGSkylar Grey35:12

        But she, her head is so massive.

    20. SPSpeaker35:13

        Well, here, this, this is not a real picture.

    21. SGSkylar Grey35:15

        They get, they get really big.

    22. JRJoe Rogan35:17

        Is that a real picture?

    23. SPSpeaker35:19

        That's not.

    24. SGSkylar Grey35:19

        That one can't be real. [laughs]

    25. JRJoe Rogan35:21

        [laughs]

    26. SGSkylar Grey35:21

        But they are massive. Like-

    27. JRJoe Rogan35:25

        Oh, so that's what she looks like.

    28. SGSkylar Grey35:26

        Yeah, pretty much. She's all white.

    29. JRJoe Rogan35:32

        But those dogs are great for just, like, keeping track of the property.

    30. SGSkylar Grey35:36

        Yeah.
11. 41:05 – 50:01

    Biodynamic Napa vineyard: dry farming, glyphosate worries, and ‘Glass Rock’ grapes

    1. SGSkylar Grey41:05

       'Cause we need the cows 'cause we have a biodynamic vineyard.

    2. JRJoe Rogan41:09

       Oh.

    3. SGSkylar Grey41:10

       And so we use the cows in the vineyard, um, like for a few months out of the year just because it creates like a great ecosystem.

    4. JRJoe Rogan41:20

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SGSkylar Grey41:20

       And also like their footprints make little puddles and the water gathers 'cause we're also dry farmed. And so-

    6. JRJoe Rogan41:26

       What's that mean?

    7. SGSkylar Grey41:27

       We don't water our grapes.

    8. JRJoe Rogan41:29

       Really?

    9. SGSkylar Grey41:30

       Yeah. So um-

    10. JRJoe Rogan41:32

        Why is that?

    11. SGSkylar Grey41:34

        I'm not the wine expert, but [laughs] I think it's because, uh, you get like a better flavor profile if you like, it's more concentrated-

    12. JRJoe Rogan41:44

        Oh

    13. SGSkylar Grey41:45

        ... if you don't like overload them with water. Um, and also it makes the vines struggle in a good way so it makes them reach deeper, like the, the roots reach deeper into the ground, and so you get more like flavor I guess.

    14. JRJoe Rogan42:00

        And so this is your own wine?

    15. SGSkylar Grey42:03

        So we don't make the wine. We sell the grapes to um, I think we have five different wine makers now. They're all doing single estate, uh, wines from our property. Um, so they're not blending it with anything. So you can drink the wine from our property, but it's not our label 'cause I don't wanna go out there and sell wine and make people taste my wine and-

    16. JRJoe Rogan42:25

        Well, that-

    17. SGSkylar Grey42:25

        I don't wanna go [laughs] down that whole-

    18. JRJoe Rogan42:27

        Yeah, that seems like-

    19. SGSkylar Grey42:27

        ... marketing. It's like I have a whole other job. I don't need that one. [laughs]

    20. JRJoe Rogan42:30

        That seems like a lot.

    21. SGSkylar Grey42:31

        We just handle the farming.

    22. JRJoe Rogan42:33

        That's cool though. What if somebody wanted to buy wine from your property, like what are the wines?

    23. SGSkylar Grey42:38

        Well, our property is called Glass Rock and so, um, Pilcrow-Glass Rock, um, Tansy Glass Rock

    24. JRJoe Rogan42:47

        Oh, so they all say Glass Rock-

    25. SGSkylar Grey42:48

        Yeah

    26. JRJoe Rogan42:49

        ... is on the farm?

    27. SGSkylar Grey42:49

        I'm sorry. They have, like, a, their brand name or whatever, and then underneath it'll say, like, the vineyard site. So if you get it from a Glass Rock-

    28. JRJoe Rogan42:58

        All right, I'm gonna buy some wine from your farm.

    29. SGSkylar Grey43:00

        Oh, I'll send you some.

    30. JRJoe Rogan43:01

        Okay.
12. 50:01 – 54:31

    Cabin reset after a flop: odd jobs, porn-editing, and creative burnout

    1. SGSkylar Grey50:01

       Um, well, I had, I'd been on tour, and I was playing keyboards and singing backups for somebody else. So I can back up a little bit. So I, I got my first record deal when I was, um, 18 or something, and put out an album. That was with, uh, Warner Brothers. Linkin Park signed me. Um, and I was going by the name Holly Brook at the time. That's my first and middle name. And so I, I put out an album through that, and it completely, like, flopped, and I went broke. And, you know, LA's so, so expensive, and I had spent all my college savings to move out to LA and make demos and everything, so I had nothing left. And, um, so then I had taken... For the first time in my life, I had to get some jobs, like, not just performing. So I worked in, uh, Barnes & Noble, um, I taught gymnastics, and I edited porn. And then-

    2. JRJoe Rogan51:05

       You edited porn?

    3. SGSkylar Grey51:06

       Mm-hmm.

    4. JRJoe Rogan51:07

       Whoa.

    5. SGSkylar Grey51:09

       That was a great experience. [laughs]

    6. JRJoe Rogan51:12

       That's gotta be weird.

    7. SGSkylar Grey51:13

       It was weird.

    8. JRJoe Rogan51:14

       Well, how did you take that job?

    9. SGSkylar Grey51:15

       It was like-

    10. JRJoe Rogan51:15

        First of all, how did you even find out about that job?

    11. SGSkylar Grey51:18

        Well, it was a Craigslist ad, and-

    12. JRJoe Rogan51:20

        [laughs]

    13. SGSkylar Grey51:21

        [laughs] It, it was just like, "We need video editors." And I was like, "Oh, I can, I can figure that out," 'cause I edit in Pro Tools and stuff-

    14. JRJoe Rogan51:29

        Mm-hmm

    15. SGSkylar Grey51:30

        ... music, so it, it can't be that hard. And they said they would train. So I showed up to the interview in a suit, and [laughs] they were like, "So you know this is adult content?" 'Cause it didn't say that in the ad. And I was like-

    16. JRJoe Rogan51:45

        That's how they brought it up?

    17. SGSkylar Grey51:46

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan51:46

        "You know this is adult content?" Like-

    19. SGSkylar Grey51:48

        Yeah

    20. JRJoe Rogan51:48

        ... how the fuck would you know?

    21. SGSkylar Grey51:49

        And they're like, "Are you cool with that?" I was like, "I guess so, 'cause I need the job." And so I just took it, and it was a nine-to-five literally just looking at, like, the most disgusting shit you can imagine. Like, Two Girls One Cup has got nothing on what I saw. [laughs]

    22. JRJoe Rogan52:07

        Really?

    23. SGSkylar Grey52:08

        Yeah. [laughs]

    24. JRJoe Rogan52:09

        So it was, like, hardcore-

    25. SGSkylar Grey52:11

        Hardcore porn, and, like, it was, like... It wasn't editing feature films. It was taking, like, a feature film and then cutting out all the highlights so that I could make, like, basically reels or, like, you know, it wasn't Instagram, but, uh, basically, like, these little clips that people would search and, and find, like a cum shot or, like, a cream pie or whatever search term they would use to find this specific little clip. And so I would put together these little clips and then tag it with all the search terms somebody would use to find it. That was the, the job.

    26. JRJoe Rogan52:45

        Wow.

    27. SGSkylar Grey52:45

        And so it was all just, like, watch the whole film and pick out all the most disgusting [laughs] moments you can find-

    28. JRJoe Rogan52:52

        [laughs]

    29. SGSkylar Grey52:53

        ... and turn that into a, a clip. Um, and then I started getting this thing called the Tetris effect. Have you heard of that?

    30. JRJoe Rogan53:01

        No.
13. 54:31 – 1:29:56

    The Oregon cabin and the miracle hook: writing “Love The Way You Lie”

    1. SGSkylar Grey54:31

       To, to, and that's music at least. So I went on tour with him for a while. Um, I don't know if it was, like, a year or two, but the whole time I was just like, "I wish I was making my own music and singing my own music," you know? It started really eating at me, being, like, the backup musician. And so, um, I was, like, journaling a lot on tour, and I wrote, "I just want a cabin in the woods where I can set up my studio and be away from all these people." And, um, basically, I manifested the cabin, because-Like six months after I wrote that in my journal, my mom called me, and she was like, "My friend has this property in Oregon, and she has a cabin, and she's willing to let you live there for free. Um, you just have to work in her art gallery selling art f- like twice a week." And I was like, "That sounds perfect."

    2. JRJoe Rogan55:22

       Wow.

    3. SGSkylar Grey55:23

       So that's what I did.

    4. JRJoe Rogan55:24

       So that's how you wound up in Oregon.

    5. SGSkylar Grey55:26

       So that's how I wound up in Oregon.

    6. JRJoe Rogan55:27

       What part of Oregon?

    7. SGSkylar Grey55:28

       It's the southern coast. Um, it was in the middle of nowhere, but it's basically near Bandon. Do you know where Bandon Dunes Golf Course is?

    8. JRJoe Rogan55:35

       No.

    9. SGSkylar Grey55:35

       Have you heard of that?

    10. JRJoe Rogan55:36

        No.

    11. SGSkylar Grey55:37

        Um, it's a really famous golf course, but, um, it was kinda near there. And I m- I lived there for, like, six months, um, set up my studio, kind of, like, had to rediscover my love for music and fall back in love with it 'cause I had, like, writer's block, and I was really depressed. I had also d- just before that broke up with my boyfriend at the time, and was, my heart was broken, and it was just like, I was ... Uh, I was a mess. Um, but my cabin was, um, this really small one-room cabin with one light bulb, and there was no bathroom in it. There was a bathroom outside, and so I had to, like, walk in the middle of the night if I had to pee, I had to walk to the bathroom, and I was, like, terrified.

    12. JRJoe Rogan56:28

        Where was the bathroom? Was it an outhouse?

    13. SGSkylar Grey56:29

        No, it, it had a to- a flushing toilet and a shower, but it-

    14. JRJoe Rogan56:32

        But it was, like, a standalone?

    15. SGSkylar Grey56:33

        But it was separate from the cabin and, like, down a path.

    16. JRJoe Rogan56:37

        By itself?

    17. SGSkylar Grey56:38

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan56:38

        Just a bathroom?

    19. SGSkylar Grey56:39

        Yeah. I don't know.

    20. JRJoe Rogan56:41

        Why would anybody-

    21. SGSkylar Grey56:41

        Well, because the cabin was, like, an old fire lookout that they turned into a cabin, so it didn't have, like, plumbing or something, so they, like, add- I don't know. But it was really beautiful, and it was also at the top of a sand dune, so I couldn't drive up to it, so I had to park d- down the hill and hike to it.

    22. JRJoe Rogan57:01

        How far was the hike?

    23. SGSkylar Grey57:03

        Like a quarter mile.

    24. JRJoe Rogan57:05

        Every day?

    25. SGSkylar Grey57:06

        Yeah. Yeah. And so, and I didn't have, like, internet or anything up there. Um-

    26. JRJoe Rogan57:12

        Wow

    27. SGSkylar Grey57:13

        ... but it was great. But I was terrified of mountain lions the whole time.

    28. JRJoe Rogan57:18

        Mm.

    29. SGSkylar Grey57:18

        And so I would, like, you know, w- walking up that hill at night if I came home from whatever, um, I had to have my flashlight and was, like, looking all directions, like [laughs] ... And then I actually made a mask to wear on the back of my head 'cause apparently, like, eye contact with a mountain lion, like, they won't attack, and so, they'll, 'cause they attack you from be- behind, so I, like, wore a mask on the back of my head.

    30. JRJoe Rogan57:42

        Whoa.
14. 1:29:56 – 1:35:42

    Sudden success, impostor syndrome, and why co-writing rooms can be brutal

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:29:56

       How did you adjust to that? That had to be very strange.

    2. SGSkylar Grey1:30:00

       It was, and I also felt so much pressure. 'Cause, like, I definitely had a little imposter syndrome when I wrote that song, 'cause I was just like, "That was too easy." Like, it took me 15 minutes to write that hook, and I sent it off, and suddenly everybody wanted to get a song from me. And I was like, "That must have been a fluke." Like, "This is never gonna happen again. I'm never gonna [laughs] write another one like this or whatever." Um, and so, so many people were just wanting songs, and I felt so much pressure to deliver a hit song every time, you know? S- And I was always so hard on myself that it, uh, that became even worse. Um, just, I would just put way too much pressure on myself. I, I got invited to do so many songwriting sessions, but at, at that point, like, I had pretty much only ever written by myself. And so being, like, thrown in rooms with songwriters and producers and stuff, I was so shy. Um, I just felt, it was always so hard for me to open up creatively in front of strangers. Um, so I would just, like, walk out of sessions crying and just be like, "I suck. I-"

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:31:06

       [laughs]

    4. SGSkylar Grey1:31:07

       [laughs] "... I can't do this." You know? It was hard. That was the hardest part for me.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:31:14

       Just the performing in front of a bunch of people-

    6. SGSkylar Grey1:31:17

       Just like, yeah, just-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:31:18

       ... in the studio

    8. SGSkylar Grey1:31:18

       ... yeah, just trying to, like, create hit songs every time I'd go into a writing session. I just felt like there was some, such high expectations on what I would deliver, and I can't force creativity. It's like, it, it just-It happens or it doesn't, you know? But I felt like I had to deliver a hit song every time. And because I put that pressure on myself, it kinda shut down my creativity-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:31:43

       Mm

    10. SGSkylar Grey1:31:43

        ... and it made it really hard for me to do that. So then I ended up, like, just leaving a lot of sessions and feeling like I, like I didn't deserve to be where I was and not good enough.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:31:59

        How'd you get over that?

    12. SGSkylar Grey1:32:01

        Um, I didn't really. [laughs]

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:32:10

        [laughs]

    14. SGSkylar Grey1:32:12

        Yeah. I d-

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:32:13

        That's funny

    16. SGSkylar Grey1:32:13

        ... I don't think I ever got over that. I s- I, like, I did a lot of these sessions for a while 'cause I felt like I had to, and then I just kinda stopped taking them. I stopped agreeing to do 'em. 'Cause it was just too much, it was too hard on me.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:32:26

        So explain these kinda sessions. So you, you go to a studio with producers, and, like, and they essentially say, "Okay, let's try to create something. Ready, go." And then you're in there, and your creative process is you by yourself, like, trying to connect with emotions and thoughts-

    18. SGSkylar Grey1:32:47

        Mm-hmm

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:32:47

        ... and ideas. And now all of a sudden you're around people. And also, you're a little weirded out because you've been living in a fucking cabin-

    20. SGSkylar Grey1:32:54

        Yeah

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:32:55

        ... by yourself. [laughs] You know?

    22. SGSkylar Grey1:32:57

        That and-

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:32:57

        And you're editing porn for two weeks, and it's like-

    24. SGSkylar Grey1:33:00

        That, and I just had this, like, hit song that was huge. It was massive. And I just felt like there was s- such high expectations on me, you know?

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:33:10

        Right.

    26. SGSkylar Grey1:33:12

        So it was very hard.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:33:15

        Everybody that I've ever met who's really good has imposter syndrome.

    28. SGSkylar Grey1:33:20

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:33:21

        I think it's a part of being genuinely creative because I think, like, genuinely creative people don't have that kind of weird ego where you're like, "Yeah, finally, I'm getting mine." 'Cause some people do have that, where they feel like they deserve this.

    30. SGSkylar Grey1:33:40

        Mm-hmm.
15. 1:35:42 – 1:49:22

    Creative discipline and ‘the muse’: routines, environment, and nature as medicine

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:35:42

       How would you do it? How do you, how did you... Like, what is your creative process?

    2. SGSkylar Grey1:35:48

       My creative process, um, well now, a, a big part of it is not living in LA. [laughs] I have to be out in the middle of nowhere. Um, and I like to be alone in the room. Even if I'm writing to somebody else's beat or something like that, I just like to sit with myself and do it. Um, and I just try to focus on how it makes me feel, you know? I, I spent some time trying to write what I thought other people wanted to hear, and I feel like those songs always sucked. And so just, like, letting it flow, almost like I'm not writing it, like I'm channeling it or something-

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:36:30

       Mm

    4. SGSkylar Grey1:36:30

       ... um, that's better.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:36:32

       Yeah.

    6. SGSkylar Grey1:36:32

       The songs that, like, take less effort tend to be the better songs. And the songs that I slave over to try to get them perfect and overthink, they end up doing nothing.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:36:43

       John Mellencamp told me he wrote I Need a Lover That Won't Drive Me Crazy in the shower.

    8. SGSkylar Grey1:36:47

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:36:48

       Like that. Done.

    10. SGSkylar Grey1:36:49

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:36:49

        He was just singing, "I need a lover that won't drive me crazy." [laughs]

    12. SGSkylar Grey1:36:53

        No, it makes total sense. I write stuff in the shower. I write stuff when I'm cooking dinner. Um, it's not like go into a studio from this hour to this hour and write a song. Like, it never works for me to do that. So it'll just be random. Like, this new album I'm putting out, um, there's a song called Motivation, and I remember it came to me when I was standing outside the vet's office when my dog was getting surgery on her ACL or whatever they call it in dog world. Um, I was just, like, pacing outside during her surgery, and this, like, song started coming to me.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:37:26

        Did she have to do that thing where they cut the bone?

    14. SGSkylar Grey1:37:29

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:37:29

        Yeah. I had a dog, she had to have both her back legs done that way. She blew out both of her-

    16. SGSkylar Grey1:37:34

        It was brutal. The recovery was brutal.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:37:37

        It's horrible. Yeah.

    18. SGSkylar Grey1:37:38

        Keep in ... 'Cause she was also a puppy, so she had, like, puppy energy.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:37:41

        Eh.

    20. SGSkylar Grey1:37:42

        And it just, we had to sedate her and-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:37:45

        Oof

    22. SGSkylar Grey1:37:45

        ... it was, it was awful. [laughs]

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:37:47

        Oof.

    24. SGSkylar Grey1:37:48

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:37:49

        And so do you take specific time to just, like, sit and try to write, or do you just, like, let ideas come to you?

    26. SGSkylar Grey1:37:59

        I usually just let ideas come to me. I, like, take a lot of voice notes in my phone, um, or I'll write down lyric ideas that come to me. And then, um, I need to be better about making time for it, 'cause when I do make time to, like, go in and be creative, uh, it, it usually does... There's a balance. It's like I can't force it, but I also can't be lazy and, like-

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:38:23

        Right

    28. SGSkylar Grey1:38:23

        ... just avoid it completely.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:38:25

        Right.

    30. SGSkylar Grey1:38:25

        You know? So I try to balance that out.
16. 1:49:22 – 1:59:04

    Goals at 40: releasing more, ‘bubble grunge,’ and the meaning of Wasted Potential

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:49:22

       Do you have goals?

    2. SGSkylar Grey1:49:25

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:49:26

       What are your goals?

    4. SGSkylar Grey1:49:27

       [laughs]

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:49:27

       Like, 'cause some people don't. Some people just enjoy just doing. They don't think about, like, goals.

    6. SGSkylar Grey1:49:34

       Yeah, I mean, I have, like, things I wanna do before I die, you know?

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:49:38

       What do you wanna do?

    8. SGSkylar Grey1:49:40

       Um, well, I wanna be better about putting out more music, 'cause, because I do put so much pressure on myself, I, it's taken me, like, five years between each album to, to make one and put it out.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:49:52

       Yeah, but they're all so good.

    10. SGSkylar Grey1:49:52

        'Cause I second, I second-guess myself all the time. And, and I think, like, I put so much pressure on it, like, "This has to be the, you know, the sound that, or the mark I leave on the world, and this is what I wanna be known for." I'm like, fuck all that. Just capture a moment in time. Like, what am I feeling right now? What vibe am I into?And capture that zeitgeist musically, and then move on to the next one. Like, it doesn't all have to be cohesive. I used to just be like, put so much pressure on it being cohesive, and having, like, a certain sound or whatever. But now I'm just like, okay, right... Like, right now, this album, I'm calling the genre bubble grunge, 'cause it's, like, inspired by the '90s, um, pop and grunge kind of, like, com- combined together. Um, but then the next album, I might totally flip it and do something totally different. And that's okay. Like, it doesn't all have to be... Like, it can be different. I can, I can change it up. And so I'm, I'm... My goal i- in regards to that is, uh, to put out an album every year-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:51:05

        Wow

    12. SGSkylar Grey1:51:05

        ... instead of every five years. [laughs]

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:51:07

        That's a big shift.

    14. SGSkylar Grey1:51:08

        It's a big shift. But I don't wanna look back and just wish I would've released more, 'cause I have so much music sitting on hard drives and on a Dropbox folder that's never come out. 'Cause I would, like, make a bunch of music and then second-guess it, and start over, and start over again. It's not good enough, it's not good enough. And I'm like, "I should've just put everything out." I should've just been okay with, like, you know, putting out a bad album or a bad song. It's okay. [laughs]

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:51:40

        But do you think that that's-

    16. SGSkylar Grey1:51:41

        Just, like, keep making it and putting it out

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:51:42

        ... perhaps a part of the creative process, is boiling it down to something that you would-

    18. SGSkylar Grey1:51:46

        I think so, but I think I take that way too far.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:51:50

        Do you think that that is in part because of the pressure that you experience for your first thing that hits, y- is number one? Which is-

    20. SGSkylar Grey1:51:59

        Maybe

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:51:59

        ... a crazy experience.

    22. SGSkylar Grey1:52:00

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:52:01

        And you were really young.

    24. SGSkylar Grey1:52:03

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:52:03

        You know? And all of a sudden, boom.

    26. SGSkylar Grey1:52:05

        Yeah. Maybe that was part of it. Just made me, like, extra hard on myself. Um, but I wanna have more fun, and not take it so seriously.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:52:17

        So how do you plan on doing that? How do you plan on having more fun and not taking it so seriously, but yet still-

    28. SGSkylar Grey1:52:23

        I'm already doing it.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:52:24

        Yeah?

    30. SGSkylar Grey1:52:25

        Yeah. I think, I, I just turned 40, and I think that also has something to do with it. 'Cause I'm just, like, seeing the end. [laughs]

Episode duration: 1:59:05