Joe Rogan Experience #2509 - Caleb Hammer

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 1:02

   Caleb Hammer’s debt-to-discipline origin story (and why his show works)

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Trader by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] Good to see you, son.

   2. CHCaleb Hammer0:13

      You too. Nice to meet you.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Very nice to meet you too. I, I enjoy your content.

   4. CHCaleb Hammer0:16

      Thank you.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      You're a very sensible person.

   6. CHCaleb Hammer0:18

      Mm-hmm. I try to be.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      And you deal with a lot of very unsensible people. [laughs]

   8. CHCaleb Hammer0:22

      [laughs]

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      How do you fucking keep your shit together when you talk to these people? Y- you're f- we tell everybody you're a finance guy.

   10. CHCaleb Hammer0:28

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       And did you start out in debt and then figured out how to get your shit together?

   12. CHCaleb Hammer0:32

       Yeah, exactly. I, I was in college doing all the stupid American things, right? So you got that unlimited student loan debt for a bullshit degree. I was going for music composition, so complete bullshit degree. Uh, maxing out every credit card. One of the first pieces of financial advice I got at 18 from the parents, max out a credit card to get the piano I wanted. So that's smart. But-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       Your parents gave you that advice?

   14. CHCaleb Hammer0:55

       Yeah. It's just the average American experience.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Right.

   16. CHCaleb Hammer0:58

       You just max out a credit card. I don't, I don't know if your parents taught you anything about personal finances, but-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       No

3. 1:02 – 7:31

   America’s debt culture: credit cards, auto loans, and the student loan trap

   1. CHCaleb Hammer1:02

      ... most don't. It's, it's bad. So I was just maxing out every credit card, like everyone that comes on the show, like every American out there. We got $1.6 trillion in credit card debt in this country, by the way.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:14

      Ooh.

   3. CHCaleb Hammer1:15

      Crazy amount. Crazy amount. Defaults are to, like, 7%, which is insane. 7% of credit cards defaulting.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:22

      That's crazy.

   5. CHCaleb Hammer1:23

      Yeah. And-

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:24

      That, that is, that is really nuts.

   7. CHCaleb Hammer1:25

      Yeah, it's crazy.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:26

      Almost one out of 10 default.

   9. CHCaleb Hammer1:28

      Yeah. It's absolutely insane. But we have more auto loan debt in this country than credit cards too.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:32

       Really?

   11. CHCaleb Hammer1:32

       Which is even crazier, 'cause Americans, you know, they're big pickup trucks and everything. But, uh, either way, I was doing that. Got my Nissan Altima and, you know, thinking I was sick driving around.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:43

       [laughs]

   13. CHCaleb Hammer1:44

       And, uh, going in in debt for that, family debt, everything. It was brutal. But it was the average American life. That's what people are going through every single day. And I finally got a wake-up call. I just, I s- I was sitting in my shitty apartment that I could barely afford, and I realized the life I wanted to live just could not be sustained this way. I wanted to be a homeowner. It's the American dream. Picket fence, all that shit.

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:14

       Yep.

   15. CHCaleb Hammer2:14

       Um, but there's no way to do it with maxed out credit cards, private student loans, public student loans, everything. It was a mess. So got a sales job, just started grinding it out, paying off the debt, fully funded emergency fund, and that's what I try to teach people now. But, you know, again, the average American's kind of an idiot with money. Which is fair.

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:35

       Well, they're not informed.

   17. CHCaleb Hammer2:37

       It's our system.

   18. JRJoe Rogan2:37

       You know, which is one of the things I think your content really helps, 'cause a lot of people don't know what to do.

   19. CHCaleb Hammer2:42

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:42

       Like, you're in debt. Like, "How the fuck do I get out of this?" And a lot of people, they know are in debt, so they don't have good advice. They're not gonna get it from their parents, right?

   21. CHCaleb Hammer2:49

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:49

       So where... You know, they have to turn to somebody. And a lot of times, like, financial people online are very stiff and they're not enjoyable to listen to.

   23. CHCaleb Hammer2:59

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:59

       But you talk shit and you're-

   25. CHCaleb Hammer3:01

       Yeah

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:01

       ... very vocal and it's like, "Huh, okay, I get this guy. I can relate to him."

   27. CHCaleb Hammer3:05

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       "Tell me what to do." So there's a lot of folks out there that connect with you because of that, I think.

   29. CHCaleb Hammer3:10

       Yeah, they call us the Jerry Springer of finance.

   30. JRJoe Rogan3:13

       Yeah.
4. 7:31 – 8:32

   Boomers, Social Security, and resentment about squandered advantages

   1. CHCaleb Hammer7:31

      It is, but I'll be candid, I'm starting to not have sympathy for the boomers. I'm really not.

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:35

      Really?

   3. CHCaleb Hammer7:36

      Best, best job market ever, best stock market in the history of the world. Every single boomer, Gen X, whatever, that's been on my show, they lived it up and spent all their money to live the lifestyle they wanted, and they didn't even set 10% aside a month. 10% aside. They had the best housing market, college, jobs. They were set up for everything. If they just put 5 to 10% a month aside in the stock market that they had, that they had, they would be, they would be multimillionaires. Most of them would be multimillionaires. But instead, we're in a situation where-

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:12

      I want a new BMW

   5. CHCaleb Hammer8:14

      ... yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:15

      Yeah.

   7. CHCaleb Hammer8:15

      They can't pay their student loans. Social Security-

   8. JRJoe Rogan8:18

      Yeah

   9. CHCaleb Hammer8:18

      ... 2033, that's when the funds dry, so payments get cut by 25%.

   10. JRJoe Rogan8:23

       Is it really that soon?

   11. CHCaleb Hammer8:23

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:24

       2033 is when the funds dry up for Social Security?

   13. CHCaleb Hammer8:26

       Yeah, the actual fund that's sitting there, so every dollar that goes out is money that's coming in. That's projected 2033.

5. 8:32 – 9:20

   Taxpayer spending outrage: viral clips, benefits programs, and ‘where does the money go?’

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:32

      Well, we have to pay for transgender migrants. It's really important. Some of them have back pain. They need to be on Social Security forever.

   2. CHCaleb Hammer8:38

      Yeah, we just had a clip go viral, uh, two days ago. A transgender woman, Colorado.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:44

      I saw the video.

   4. CHCaleb Hammer8:45

      Yeah, taxpayer-funded boobs.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:47

      [laughs]

   6. CHCaleb Hammer8:47

      So that's nice.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:48

      It was... The way you explained it, or the way she explained it was hilarious. You know, like, uh, something about how her body's priceless. So like how much do they cost? They're free.

   8. CHCaleb Hammer8:58

      Yeah. [laughs] I can't blame her, though. I mean, the program's there, right?

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:01

      Of course.

   10. CHCaleb Hammer9:01

       So I'd take it if I wanted some new tits.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:03

       Of course.

   12. CHCaleb Hammer9:04

       But it's crazy that we are, and of course, the, when we filmed it was, like, two days after I wrote a $4 million, you know, income tax check, whatever, to the federal government.

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:13

       Right.

   14. CHCaleb Hammer9:13

       So-

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:13

       And you're thinking about this, like, "Where's that money go?"

   16. CHCaleb Hammer9:16

       It's going to tits, not funding pro- for Social Security.

6. 9:20 – 11:44

   California as a case study: missing billions, homelessness spending, and high-speed rail failures

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:20

      Well, we were talking before about how Gavin Newsom wouldn't do your podcast.

   2. CHCaleb Hammer9:23

      Yes.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:24

      But i- it's pre- probably because, like, that kind of debt, when you think about, like, California's debt and California's spending and, and the waste and m- potential fraud-

   4. CHCaleb Hammer9:35

      Mm-hmm

   5. JRJoe Rogan9:35

      ... I look at it like a garbage dump. Like someone saying, "Hey, go look into that garbage dump and clean it up." I'm like, "Oh, it's too much."

   6. CHCaleb Hammer9:43

      [laughs]

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:44

      And I think that's how most people look at it. They look at it like, "What the... 24 billion's missing for the homeless? How much money went to that rail?"

   8. CHCaleb Hammer9:51

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:51

      That fucking high-speed rail, like, billions of dollars later-

   10. CHCaleb Hammer9:55

       Crazy

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:55

       ... there's nothing done. Like, what are you doing?

   12. CHCaleb Hammer9:57

       Which is insane because America, the leader of the world, should have incredible high-speed rail.

   13. JRJoe Rogan10:02

       Yeah.

   14. CHCaleb Hammer10:02

       I want it. I want to go to Dallas, Houston in a couple hours on a high-speed rail. Maybe Texas could do it, but just give California anything and they'll find a way to mess it up and lose all the money.

   15. JRJoe Rogan10:11

       Well, this is like, the, the rail one is crazy because, like, nothing's been... How much have they spent on the high-speed rail so far? It's something bonkers.

   16. CHCaleb Hammer10:19

       It's billions.

   17. JRJoe Rogan10:20

       Some, some insane amount of money and nothing's been done, and there's this guy on YouTube. Do you remember the guy on YouTube, Jamie? Uh, he's on, uh, Instagram rather. The guy who's on Instagram who, uh, says in the same amount of time that it took California to not do that, this is what China's done.

   18. CHCaleb Hammer10:34

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan10:34

       And it's just over and over and over again, all the miles of high-speed rail they put in, all of this, all of that, all... Like, for the same amount of money that California spent, this is what could have been done, and it's-

   20. CHCaleb Hammer10:45

       That's crazy

   21. JRJoe Rogan10:45

       ... fucking nuts.

   22. CHCaleb Hammer10:47

       Brightline's private.

   23. JRJoe Rogan10:48

       Spent an order of mid-teens of billions. Mid-teens.

   24. CHCaleb Hammer10:52

       Crazy.

   25. JRJoe Rogan10:52

       So far on the high-speed rail, roughly around $14 to $16 billion as of the mid-2020s. How much of it is done, Jamie?

   26. CHCaleb Hammer11:01

       [laughs]

   27. JRJoe Rogan11:01

       How much of that rail's done?

   28. SPSpeaker11:03

       Well, some of it is actually getting close to done, I think.

   29. JRJoe Rogan11:05

       Oh my God, amazing.

   30. CHCaleb Hammer11:07

       To what? Bakersfield to...
7. 11:44 – 13:15

   The simple path to wealth: index funds, target-date funds, and the ‘why isn’t everyone doing this?’ question

   1. JRJoe Rogan11:44

      "If you were 25 in 1990 and made an average US salary for 40 years, saving 5 to 10% per month in the S&P 500, how much would they have now? They would have around 2 to $5 million-

   2. CHCaleb Hammer11:56

      [laughs]

   3. JRJoe Rogan11:56

      ... depending on exact assumptions."

   4. SPSpeaker11:58

      Starting with $21,000.

   5. CHCaleb Hammer11:59

      Holy shit.

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:01

      $5 million. That's insane.

   7. CHCaleb Hammer12:01

      Shit.

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:01

      Like, this is hard for me to-

   9. CHCaleb Hammer12:03

      WowWe have the best disposable income in the history of the world

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:07

       This is how crazy inflation is. The average salary in 1990 was $21,000.

   11. CHCaleb Hammer12:14

       That's crazy. [laughs]

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:15

       Isn't that nuts? Can you imagine if someone told you you had to live off $21,000 today? You'd be like, "Oh, fuck."

   13. CHCaleb Hammer12:21

       And yet even still they could retire multimillionaires. Even still, even with that. It's beautiful.

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:27

       That is nuts if you know how to do it.

   15. CHCaleb Hammer12:28

       It's crazy.

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:28

       But how is, how would someone start doing something like that?

   17. CHCaleb Hammer12:32

       Honestly, low-cost index funds. I'm sure you got a money guy, but for the average American, uh, there's these target date retirement funds. So Fidelity or whatever you wanna use, they have... Essentially you just pick, like, within the five years that you think you're gonna retire, you just buy into that, and it just, it balances it for you. It goes more aggressive now, and just more conservative by the time you retire. It's so easy. There's no reason most people, like, aren't doing it. Even in their 401 [k] where it's free money matches and everything. It, it doesn't really make sense.

   18. JRJoe Rogan13:03

       So did you have to teach yourself all this stuff?

   19. CHCaleb Hammer13:06

       I mean, I'll be honest, uh, pretty much any personal finance book or just, like, not even a class. Just watch, like, a couple YouTubers, the dry YouTubers that maybe no one's watching-

   20. JRJoe Rogan13:15

       Mm-hmm

8. 13:15 – 15:35

   Dangerous ‘finfluencer’ trends: streamer day trading, copy trades, and the Pelosi portfolio joke

   1. CHCaleb Hammer13:15

      ... and, I mean, you'll get it like this. It's, it's super simple, that kind of stuff. It, it gets a little harder if you're thinking, like, what kind of perfect insurances do I need? You know, if you're trying to individually stock trade. You know what scares me, though? Um, people in our position right now, uh, people under 30, 60%, 60% of them are doing their portfolio trades based on the podcasters they're listening to. That's what's scary to me.

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:42

      What? Really?

   3. CHCaleb Hammer13:43

      Yeah, 60%.

   4. JRJoe Rogan13:44

      Which podcasts are giving them advice? [laughs]

   5. CHCaleb Hammer13:46

      Uh, any personal finance.

   6. SPSpeaker13:49

      Bleed Out Ads. [laughs]

   7. CHCaleb Hammer13:49

      Any personal finance. No, even on, like, Kick or, uh, Twitch, there's streamers.

   8. JRJoe Rogan13:53

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CHCaleb Hammer13:53

      I'll log on in the morning just to see who's streaming, and some of the top viewed people are day traders.

   10. JRJoe Rogan13:58

       Really?

   11. CHCaleb Hammer13:58

       With, like, 25 thir- thousand concurrent viewers that are getting hundreds of thousands of views a day.

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:03

       Okay, so the Kick streamers that are doing finance, are they just essentially, like, letting people know what they're trading and what to trade?

   13. CHCaleb Hammer14:09

       Exactly. It's crazy.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:10

       Oh, so you could-

   15. CHCaleb Hammer14:10

       So they're following along

   16. JRJoe Rogan14:11

       ... basically just mirror them.

   17. CHCaleb Hammer14:13

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:13

       So you could say, "Okay, buy BlackRock. Whoa," and you could, whatever you wanna buy-

   19. CHCaleb Hammer14:17

       Yeah

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:17

       ... whatever they're doing, you'll d- like, sort of like the Pelosi stock trader.

   21. CHCaleb Hammer14:21

       Yes.

   22. JRJoe Rogan14:22

       That's a good one.

   23. CHCaleb Hammer14:22

       Which I've bought into the Pelosi fund.

   24. JRJoe Rogan14:24

       Yeah?

   25. CHCaleb Hammer14:24

       It's doing really well.

   26. JRJoe Rogan14:25

       I bet it is.

   27. CHCaleb Hammer14:26

       Yeah. I only put $1,000 in there. I was a little scared, but it's doing really well.

   28. JRJoe Rogan14:29

       [laughs]

   29. CHCaleb Hammer14:29

       It's beating my own money, guys. So [laughs] I mean...

   30. JRJoe Rogan14:33

       It's kind of hilarious.
9. 15:35 – 27:06

   Prediction markets, George Santos, and the weird incentives of modern politics

   1. CHCaleb Hammer15:35

      You know, some of the people that were in the operation for Maduro in Venezuela, they're getting in trouble. George Santos. You know George... Did you ever have George Santos?

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:43

      No-

   3. CHCaleb Hammer15:43

      Okay

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:44

      ... but he's hilarious.

   5. CHCaleb Hammer15:45

      Yes, he's hilarious, but big investigation just opened up-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:48

      Whoopsies

   7. CHCaleb Hammer15:48

      ... yesterday or today.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:49

      Oh, no, he just got a pardon for something else.

   9. CHCaleb Hammer15:51

      Yes. He bet on... He- [laughs]

   10. SPSpeaker15:53

       [laughs]

   11. CHCaleb Hammer15:53

       He went on, um, Instagram or something-

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:57

       Polymarket

   13. CHCaleb Hammer15:57

       ... and he was like, "Hey, guys, I'm gonna 100% be at the State of the Union. 100%, I'm gonna be there. Here's my seat." And then he immediately bet that he will not be at the State of the Union.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       Oh.

   15. CHCaleb Hammer16:06

       Yeah. [laughs] So four people close to him have been, uh, working with the FTC on that.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:12

       Oh my God, he's retarded.

   17. CHCaleb Hammer16:13

       Yeah. [laughs]

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       That's so dumb.

   19. CHCaleb Hammer16:14

       After pardoning everything.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:16

       That's so dumb. Bro, you got free, and you're fun. You should just do a podcast. That guy should-

   21. CHCaleb Hammer16:21

       Yes

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:21

       ... he could make millions doing a podcast.

   23. CHCaleb Hammer16:23

       Yeah. He's been on other podcasts. He's good.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:25

       He would be great.

   25. CHCaleb Hammer16:26

       He's a sassy gay. He's perfect-

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:27

       Yeah

   27. CHCaleb Hammer16:27

       ... for the camera.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       Sassy, fun, smart, talks a lot of shit. He would be great as a host of a podcast. Don't fucking do scams like that.

   29. CHCaleb Hammer16:35

       Yeah, insider trading, so I guess that's his future now. But-

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:38

       We had a, there was a, was it Polymarket? What was it? Where they had, uh, o- odds on things that we do and what we're gonna say and what guests we're gonna have on.
10. 27:06 – 46:29

    Crime, DAs, and algorithmic ‘political capture’—why policy drifts to extremes

    1. CHCaleb Hammer27:06

       You take that, and then you compare it with, like, every violent crime that has happened in Austin this year are people that have been repeat criminals-

    2. JRJoe Rogan27:15

       Oh, yeah

    3. CHCaleb Hammer27:15

       ... just let loose.

    4. JRJoe Rogan27:16

       Oh, yeah. Yeah.

    5. CHCaleb Hammer27:17

       Okay, so locking up people that don't deserve it, and then a guy, a guy off a 360 here in Austin killed his family, and he was let out a couple times before.

    6. JRJoe Rogan27:26

       Yeah. Yeah, I'm not a fan of that. That's a different thing, you know? Um, the- so you got both things, right? You have these, uh, very liberal, uh, DAs who are letting people go if they think that they're, you know, from a protected class-

    7. CHCaleb Hammer27:42

       Yeah

    8. JRJoe Rogan27:42

       ... or if they think they've experienced racism, or they've experienced some sort of, um, an unjust situation as a youth, and they need a second chance, and the system is racist-

    9. CHCaleb Hammer27:53

       Mm-hmm

    10. JRJoe Rogan27:53

        ... and so you'll let them loose. But you've got people that, you know, like the guy that pushed someone in front of the train in New York City, had been arrested-

    11. CHCaleb Hammer28:01

        Mm-hmm

    12. JRJoe Rogan28:01

        ... over a dozen times. Like, the fuck are you doing? And there's some kind of crazy sta- statistic, particularly about New York City, that something like 50% of all the crimes are by a very small number of people.

    13. CHCaleb Hammer28:15

        Oh, yeah.

    14. JRJoe Rogan28:15

        A very small number of repeat people. And if those people were in jail, literally crime, you could halve violent crime, halve robberies. Halve.

    15. CHCaleb Hammer28:24

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan28:24

        50%.

    17. CHCaleb Hammer28:25

        It's crazy. I, I, uh, saw some people do an analysis of, like, the kind of content and news we were getting in 2015 by people that I watched and liked, like the Vlogbrothers and stuff on YouTube, where everything was about the prison industrial complex, which I'm not saying is not a thing. It certainly-

    18. JRJoe Rogan28:41

        It's a thing

    19. CHCaleb Hammer28:41

        ... there's definitely issues, for sure.

    20. JRJoe Rogan28:43

        Yeah.

    21. CHCaleb Hammer28:43

        But it was about how, you know, uh, we, we have the highest prison population and stuff. And again, these aren't untrue things, but it started putting out all this unchallenged information about how we are too critical in this country and too punishing. And then what you started to see after that was the politicians, like the DA here or the DA in San Francisco, coming around the 2020 stuff after the George Floyd situation and everything, where all of a sudden it was beyond soft on crime, like beyond, where they could do any amount of property damage that they wanted in San Francisco and just no challenges.

    22. JRJoe Rogan29:17

        Right.

    23. CHCaleb Hammer29:17

        Or the DA in Chicago that raised, I think, uh, uh, the, the theft for felony threshold from, like, $50 to $500 or something.

    24. JRJoe Rogan29:28

        Mm-hmm.

    25. CHCaleb Hammer29:28

        It was something crazy. So all that information-

    26. JRJoe Rogan29:30

        I think it was $900.

    27. CHCaleb Hammer29:31

        Yeah, crazy.

    28. JRJoe Rogan29:32

        Yeah.

    29. CHCaleb Hammer29:32

        All that information that we were all consuming was just unchallenged. And all you had was, like, a boomer on Fox News just yelling. That was, like, the only challenge to that kind of information that was coming around 2015. And I, I was a fan of that information. I ate it alive. Um, and then now we're facing the consequences of it.

    30. JRJoe Rogan29:52

        Yeah.
11. 46:29 – 49:44

    Housing policy contradictions: rent control, vacant units, luxury ‘asset apartments,’ and penthouse politics

    1. JRJoe Rogan46:29

       The Mom Dani thing is also interesting because one of the things he said recently is that they, if they have bad landlords, they might take the house. Have you seen that?

    2. CHCaleb Hammer46:37

       Yeah, it's, uh-

    3. JRJoe Rogan46:38

       Which is like, okay, communism. You're, you're-

    4. CHCaleb Hammer46:41

       Exactly

    5. JRJoe Rogan46:41

       ... gonna capture real estate. You know, the, the farm is spending too, it's too much money for a tomato. We're gonna take over the farm.

    6. CHCaleb Hammer46:47

       [laughs]

    7. JRJoe Rogan46:47

       Like, this is North Korea.

    8. CHCaleb Hammer46:49

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JRJoe Rogan46:49

       This is how it started. Give us your farm, we'll feed everybody. Oh, great.

    10. CHCaleb Hammer46:54

        Yeah, I'd love to-

    11. JRJoe Rogan46:54

        How'd that work out?

    12. CHCaleb Hammer46:54

        ... see that survive the courts, but-

    13. JRJoe Rogan46:57

        No

    14. CHCaleb Hammer46:57

        ... it's, it's a, it's a crazy idea that... Or even there, and of course those, those bad landlords that we're talking about, they're usually, like, rent-controlled units where they can't bring in enough money to even maintain the units.

    15. JRJoe Rogan47:08

        Right.

    16. CHCaleb Hammer47:08

        So then the units fall. I mean, the, the percentage of units, I don't know, you can look up the exact number, but that are just sitting empty because there's not enough money to put into them just to bring them up to date is crazy.

    17. JRJoe Rogan47:19

        It's crazy.

    18. CHCaleb Hammer47:19

        This is the most populated city in the country. People need places to live, and we have a system right now where people can't even bring units to rent up to date for people to live in. So there's, like, 10% of rent-controlled units or something that are, or not rent-controlled, but, uh, uh, but it's brutal. It's an absolute brutal system. It's performative in the end.

    19. JRJoe Rogan47:39

        Well, there's also this weird thing that goes on in New York City with really expensive apartments where people buy them and never live in them because it's just a-

    20. CHCaleb Hammer47:46

        Yes

    21. JRJoe Rogan47:46

        ... place to put your money, and-

    22. CHCaleb Hammer47:48

        Which we do, too. We do that overseas in Europe.

    23. JRJoe Rogan47:50

        Oh, do we?

    24. CHCaleb Hammer47:51

        Um, yeah, yeah, American billion- I mean, billionaires all over the world do that 'cause real estate's just a good protective asset.

    25. JRJoe Rogan47:56

        Right.

    26. CHCaleb Hammer47:56

        It's a good way to preserve. But no, I mean, it makes sense. And places like Texas have banned people from China doing that. Um, but I, it makes sense from a wealth preservation standpoint, but it's shitty for the residents of the city. So I mean, I think, I think it would be fair for them to outlaw that if they wanted to.

    27. JRJoe Rogan48:13

        So-

    28. CHCaleb Hammer48:13

        Kevin O'Leary's counter perspective, though, have you heard his?

    29. JRJoe Rogan48:16

        No.

    30. CHCaleb Hammer48:16

        So on that, and I don't know if I agree with it, but it's worth considering, is that okay, but they're there, they buy it, they don't go there, so they're not using any public s- services-
12. 49:44 – 59:45

    Government waste and audits: Pentagon failures, debt interest, and ‘pay taxes—but for what?’

    1. CHCaleb Hammer49:44

       No, absolutely. I'm, again, down to pay more in taxes, but like you said, there is the fear of, like, where's the money going? What scares me, I want to have Mr. Marco Rubio, if he ever sees this and runs for president, on my show. The Pentagon hasn't passed an audit in years. Even that alone-

    2. JRJoe Rogan50:01

       They're working on it

    3. CHCaleb Hammer50:02

       ... they're working on it [laughs] for years, for-

    4. JRJoe Rogan50:04

       They've never passed-

    5. CHCaleb Hammer50:04

       ... more than two decades

    6. JRJoe Rogan50:05

       ... they've never passed a budget, never passed an audit.

    7. CHCaleb Hammer50:08

       It's crazy. Like-

    8. JRJoe Rogan50:09

       Yeah

    9. CHCaleb Hammer50:10

       ... that alone.

    10. JRJoe Rogan50:11

        I know

    11. CHCaleb Hammer50:11

        ... I mean, that alone. And I know military is still... It's, what is it? 10 to 20% of the federal budget, so it's a smaller percentage, but the fastest-growing category of the federal budget is interest payments on our debt. That's the fastest-growing category in the federal budget. If that's the case, why are we allowing the Pentagon to not pass an audit? We're gonna raise defense spending to a trillion dollars a year, but it can't pass an audit? I want good defense. I want broad defense. I want a lot of benefits for our soldiers.

    12. JRJoe Rogan50:38

        Yeah.

    13. CHCaleb Hammer50:39

        It has to pass an audit.

    14. JRJoe Rogan50:41

        Yeah. Well, this is the thing, I mean, w- exactly what we're talking about, like, we're in favor of paying taxes. It'd be great if everything was nice, the schools were great, the streets were clean. But when you know that there's so much waste and there's so much fraud, and then all they're saying is we need to make people pay their share. To pay it to where?

    15. CHCaleb Hammer51:00

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan51:00

        Where's it going? Who's benefiting from it? You know, when you, when you see the, like, the $24 billion that was spent on the homeless in California, it's like you don't have any knowledge of where that money went? You can't audit it? This is bananas. That's so much fucking money, and not only has it not been effective, it's been the opposite of effective. The homelessness increased during that time.

    17. CHCaleb Hammer51:25

        Yeah.

    18. JRJoe Rogan51:25

        So you spent all that money, and more people are homeless now than when you started.

    19. CHCaleb Hammer51:29

        It's performative. It sounds good. It sounds good.

    20. JRJoe Rogan51:31

        Yeah.

    21. CHCaleb Hammer51:31

        It's all performative.

    22. JRJoe Rogan51:33

        It's also-

    23. CHCaleb Hammer51:33

        That's what I hate about politics

    24. JRJoe Rogan51:34

        ... jobs. It's jobs.

    25. CHCaleb Hammer51:35

        Yes.

    26. JRJoe Rogan51:35

        There's so many people that have jobs in nonprofits, and they make an extraordinary amount of money.

    27. CHCaleb Hammer51:40

        Well, that's why they should look to Houston. Instead of nonprofits, it's one central city-run organization, and they've actually decreased homelessness-

    28. JRJoe Rogan51:48

        Really?

    29. CHCaleb Hammer51:48

        ... with, like, a 10% of the budget per homeless person than LA. But LA has all... a network for every little corner of the homeless services. It's a network of different nonprofits and organizations, so it doesn't work. The city program, one central city program did it in Houston, and it's actually been working. It's-

    30. JRJoe Rogan52:07

        How do they do it? What are they doing differently?
13. 59:45 – 1:11:24

    Cars as financial self-sabotage: status, ‘safety’ rationalizations, and used EV bargains

    1. JRJoe Rogan59:45

       You, so you get threats for w- like, what specifically do they get upset at? It's literally just saying-

    2. CHCaleb Hammer59:50

       Everything

    3. JRJoe Rogan59:50

       ... don't spend your money?

    4. CHCaleb Hammer59:51

       It's, it's everything. They don't like that I do roasts, consensual, consensual roasts. Like, I called a fat bitch a fat bitch.

    5. JRJoe Rogan59:58

       [laughs]

    6. CHCaleb Hammer59:59

       But I had the conversation with her before, and if she didn't want me to, I wouldn't have done that 'cause we have a no-no list where people get to, uh, say what they don't want us to talk about, and then I just won't talk about that. But it's-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

       Well, that's very nice of you.

    8. CHCaleb Hammer1:00:12

       It is very nice, but that's 'cause we try to run, you know, a moral, consensual show, all that good stuff. Uh, but I love to roast people and just call out their features and just dumb shit like that, so people get offended by that, offended on behalf of someone who's not offended in the first place, and then they get very angry. Um, I de- I got a death threat on Twitter yesterday for, uh, saying Americans spend too much money on cars.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:32

       Wow.

    10. CHCaleb Hammer1:00:32

        He said I should, uh, that it's crazy that Caleb Hammer's still breathing air and that he should come up from San Antonio and kill me or something. I don't remember.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:39

        Whoa.

    12. CHCaleb Hammer1:00:39

        It's something like that. I, it's kinda crazy, 'cause Americans spend too much money on cars. Uh-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:45

        Maybe he sells cars.

    14. CHCaleb Hammer1:00:46

        Maybe, but objectively, we do.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:00:48

        Did you check his, uh, profile? Is it a real person?

    16. CHCaleb Hammer1:00:51

        It said San Antonio. That's all I know.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:00:53

        Mm.

    18. CHCaleb Hammer1:00:54

        That's all I know. I'm sure it was, like, a-

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

        Could be a bot

    20. CHCaleb Hammer1:00:57

        ... second profile. He was, he was responding to it. He was excited. You know, he, he got his attention.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:02

        Well, it could be a crazy person.

    22. CHCaleb Hammer1:01:03

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:04

        Yeah.

    24. CHCaleb Hammer1:01:04

        And we get emails all the time. No, people, people think I'm evil because-

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:07

        [laughs]

    26. CHCaleb Hammer1:01:08

        ... um, they say I don't talk about the issues that led us here in the first place, but it's a personal responsibility show. 'Cause more people have agency than they're willing to acknowledge.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:01:18

        Right.

    28. CHCaleb Hammer1:01:18

        Like, we're in the highest disposable income society in the history of human existence. Not everything's perfect. Cost of housing's gone up. Cost of school's gone up. Cost of healthcare's gone up. We can acknowledge those realities, but people have agency.People have agency. Um, the amount of going out to eat among the g- generation Z is insane compared to any other generation. And not only that, but now for 25% of their going out to eat multiple times a week is getting food delivered, and that has a 90% markup. 90%. And then they're complaining that they can't afford to, uh, pretty much do anything, get a nice apartment or whatnot. But if we're spending h- uh, like $1,000 a month, which is very normal for a person on my show, going out to eat, you're right, you can't get a apartment of your dreams when $1,000 a month is going to McDonald's and other places. Cooking at home's become, like, a burden, become a victim complex now. Uh, well, actually, that was another thing that triggered the internet. I kind of agreed with Kevin O'Leary when he said, "Oh, young people are broke 'cause they spend $28 going out to eat." Well, it's not that specifically only, but it's the death of a small- uh, of 1,000 cuts. And yes, just $28 three times a week becomes an actual halfway decent retirement fund if you put it in the S&P 500 for a few times a week. That does put off future goals that you have. And the internet went crazy against me. They hated me for suggesting that, that they shouldn't be able to... They're like, "Well, how do we eat?"

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:50

        [laughs]

    30. CHCaleb Hammer1:02:50

        Well, groceries, meal prep, meal plan. This is what everyone's done since forever. We live in the best period ever for humans. Best period ever. Our jobs are better. Everything's better. Even when you think of, like, buying the starter home in the '50s and whatever, you know, they were, like, the size of this room that we're in right now, mass-produced. Okay, that's still a home that's great you could buy, but you were going to a job that you hated, that you were sweating, that had no AC, where you're working with your hands all day, and it was miserable. They didn't like the jobs. They liked that they had a good-paying job. But now people go to the office and they think they're a victim for not being able to meal prep before going to the office, the AC'd office. Like, it's hard for me to sympathize with that, especially when I film three of them a week, all 100% real people, mostly Gen Z and millennials, who are absolute victims in everything. They, they are victims in everything. They think, they think if they don't get a 2027 brand-new car instead of a 2025 car, that they're gonna die, that all of a sudden cars two years ago were the most dangerous things. They have to get a 60 to $70,000 car loan at a 20% interest rate or else their kids will die.
14. 1:11:24 – 1:13:58

    Homeownership vs. renting: why the ‘American dream’ may no longer be the best investment

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:11:24

       So would you say not get a house today because of interest rates?

    2. CHCaleb Hammer1:11:28

       Uh, just interest rates. Um, the o- the overall marketplace, S&P 500, it just beats real estate. Commercial real estate's good to get for tax advantages, but the American dream isn't owning a home anymore. It's the freedom of renting, 'cause you can live wherever you want. You can move for a job like that.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:11:43

       Mm

    4. CHCaleb Hammer1:11:43

       Getting a house, you're stuck in a house. It requires a massive amount of money for a down payment, and it's just a lack of flexibility in a generation and age where people wanna be more flexible and travel and explore and take new jobs everywhere. But it also just doesn't make sense as, as an investment anymore. It doesn't. It, it used to be the defining trait of the middle class and one of the largest wealth-creating things for the middle class, but now with the incredible stock market that we've had over the past 50 years or so, it beats it every time. If you rent and just put in your money into the stock market instead of that down payment on a house with a little extra for a mortgage, you'll win every time. And then you get stuck. Let's say you got the good interest rate. Everyone with a good interest rate is stuck right now, 'cause they're not willing to trade up for a house they actually want, but with a higher interest rate

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:12:32

       Mm

    6. CHCaleb Hammer1:12:33

       So homes become like these people's prisons. You can buy a home. That's great. If you know you're gonna stay somewhere and it's what you've ever- always wanted, there's nothing wrong with doing it, but it is not that actually incredible financial thing that has defined America. That being said, Americans suck at investing, so if the only way for you to invest is put your house in a, uh, put your money in a house that you literally cannot touch, maybe it makes sense. Because if instead you need to put an extra 20% to the market if you rent, but Americans just wanna go spend that on a vacation, then maybe you're better off in a house 'cause you need that forced investing

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:13:11

       Yeah. Well, a lot of people don't feel, uh, they don't feel secure unless they own the home. They don't feel, like, settled. "This is not really my place."

    8. CHCaleb Hammer1:13:19

       Yeah

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:13:19

       "I'm just renting it."

    10. CHCaleb Hammer1:13:20

        Yeah, which is true, but I mean-I just tell them to fuck off, that's your feelings?

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:13:25

        Yeah.

    12. CHCaleb Hammer1:13:25

        I mean, that is just their feelings.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:13:26

        Right.

    14. CHCaleb Hammer1:13:27

        Like, I don't know, math is math in the end. Like, I own, but that's 'cause it was very affordable for me and made sense for me. Um, but it doesn't have to for everyone.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:13:37

        Right.

    16. CHCaleb Hammer1:13:37

        And that's okay. In renting, you don't have to do maintenance, you don't have to get a new roof, you don't have to, you know, deal with the AC going out and all this stuff. If you're renting for, especially even, like, larger corporations, they're actually even better to rent for than a mom and pa because they'll have someone on standby that'll fix your shit overnight, where a ma and pa landlord, you know, it kinda sucks. It might take a couple weeks.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:13:55

        Right, if they're not good. Um-

    18. CHCaleb Hammer1:13:57

        Yeah

15. 1:13:58 – 1:18:12

    AI disruption, degree ROI, and the gender education divide

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:13:58

       ... wh- what do you think, when you're talking to these young people that are talking about their future, what do you think about what's happening with AI and the potential for AI to displace jobs? And-

    2. CHCaleb Hammer1:14:09

       Yeah

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:14:09

       ... these people that are investing their future in going to school and getting this job that might not even exist.

    4. CHCaleb Hammer1:14:15

       Yeah, totally fair. Uh, it's a big fear. So I, I'm gonna start this part by saying I don't 100% wanna listen to anyone that says they know what's gonna happen. 'Cause how can... There's the doom and glooms that says everyone's job's gonna go away, and then there's those that say it's gonna create a shit ton of new jobs. I don't listen to any of them. No one knows what's on the other side of the hill of AI, but we do know AI is coming, so there is the best things to prepare for it. Trades, very smart. They've been smart for a while, but they're very smart with AI 'cause it's probably not coming for an electrician job. Probably not. Degrees in general, what degree you get in school, has been one of the largest and most consequential decisions that people have been messing up for the past few years, and it's actually one of the leading causes for that, uh, gender wealth divide that is always talked about. When compared for the same job, same person, same experience, which is never compared in that study, uh, it's actually, uh, 99% very similar. But what we see oftentimes, and I feel, I feel bad for, uh, uh, the, the women my age with this, is statistically them, they've gone and got lower paying degrees, and now, uh, degrees that are very susceptible to AI, which is gonna be very damaging for a large group of people that are gonna push them to become even more radical. But women have gone and borrowed a lot more money for degrees that provide a lot less return on investment, like sociology, psychology, the arts, things like that, where you can't maybe even get a job. You're gonna be a barista, or if you are gonna get a job, it's usually a lower paying job. Where men have gone, um, just ki- uh, we've fallen this thing in our society where men have always tried to go to that higher income side and give up a job they like for it, so they'll go into engineering, the maths, the sciences, uh, even if they don't like it, or the trades, very labor intensive. And even though AI, you know, they're susceptible to some things in tech there, it's always been higher paying, and that's what's made that gender wealth, uh, gap so heavy. That and then, uh, women post-birth is the second highest leading cause. But when it comes to AI, people are already making the mistakes in the degrees they've been getting over the last 10 years, and now this is just gonna accelerate that even further. When it comes to data entry jobs, things that are super easy, even unfortunately, who knows if we'll allow it for therapists, but it's getting there pretty quick. People are willing to trust AI way more than we thought-

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:16:49

       Yeah

    6. CHCaleb Hammer1:16:49

       ... in these psychology degrees and whatnot, writing degrees, things that unfortunately that large sector has gotten, it's, they're much more susceptible to AI. And it's gonna lead to, I think it's gonna lead to a lot more political radicalization, and that's what scares me more than anything. Um, the, uh, was it the UN? Uh, one, uh, a reputable source said 40% of global jobs are susceptible to being replaced by AI. Now, the more developed countries, we're a little better, it's a little easier, but we're talking about those that are doing, like, customer service jobs in India and things like that. The- that's, you know, they're gonna be damaged heavily. We're gonna be a little better in Europe, in the United States and Canada, Australia, but it's scary, and people need to prepare themselves by trying to borrow the least amount possible when they get their degree, go to community college if they can, and go into something that's more AI resistant. Which to me is, again, things like trades, things that need that extra creative edge where AI doesn't seem to be able to get there yet. Maybe it'll be able to at some point. Right now they're, they're really good at going through numbers and stuff, but that true creative edge, actually coming up with something new, um, that's, that's what I think people should be going towards in college right now.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:18:08

       Yeah, I completely agree. Hold that thought. I have to take a leak. We'll be right back.

    8. CHCaleb Hammer1:18:11

       Yeah, you're good.

16. 1:18:12 – 1:34:02

    Gender wars, loneliness, and the internet victim economy (4B, sexlessness, and radicalization loops)

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:18:12

       So one question that I have for you is, 'cause you got a degree that's not really a good degree financially-

    2. CHCaleb Hammer1:18:18

       I dropped out.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:18:18

       Yeah, well-

    4. CHCaleb Hammer1:18:19

       But close, yeah

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:18:19

       ... but, but going to school for something that's not viable financially, why do you think, and particularly women, why do you think so many of them get these degrees in sociology, get these degrees in gender studies, get these degrees in things that, where you're, you're just not going to be able to make a living in what you're going to school for?

    6. CHCaleb Hammer1:18:38

       Yeah, I mean, I think you can do a lot of good in a lot of them, so if you're doing social work like that. There, and, uh, nursing actually does pretty well, but in that a lower paid part of medical. I know you're doing a lot of good. Um, we, we spent a lot of decades doing, trying to really fix the percentage of college. We were having, like, men, men, men, men, all... It was only men going to college. And we put a lot of effort into women going to college a bit more to catch up, which is fair. That was good. I am for that. But once they got there, uh, just, uh, fuck. Why they're doing it, it's harder to say, but they definitely do more gravitate as a cohort towards those lower paying degrees like psychology and whatnot. And I don't know, men just go to the higher paying degrees. I don't know if it's just something in our culture where men feel like they need to be a breadwinner or whatnot.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:19:32

       Yeah, that's what I'm won- wondering, if that's what it is, the, the need to be a provider and the thinking like these low-paying jobs are not gonna be able to give me any money.

    8. CHCaleb Hammer1:19:41

       Yeah

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:19:42

       ... how am I gonna provide? How am I gonna have a family? How am I gonna pay the bills?

    10. CHCaleb Hammer1:19:46

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:19:46

        Whereas women-

    12. CHCaleb Hammer1:19:46

        But now men are, men are starting to kinda fall off that platform, though.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:19:51

        Yeah?

    14. CHCaleb Hammer1:19:51

        I don't know if you've been watching the trends, but now it's closer to, like, 60, 65% of new degree holders are women, and men are just not going to college anymore. Um, they're, some of them are-

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:20:03

        65%, really?

    16. CHCaleb Hammer1:20:04

        It's pretty crazy

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:20:04

        ... that's crazy.

    18. CHCaleb Hammer1:20:04

        It's, like, 60 or 65%.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:20:06

        Wow.

    20. CHCaleb Hammer1:20:07

        Um, it's getting, it's getting pretty intense. And-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:20:11

        Well, what are men doing instead?

    22. CHCaleb Hammer1:20:13

        There's a lot of losers. There are a lot of losers, um, uh, where they're not getting any education, they're not looking for any kinda job. They're not even collecting unemployment. They're literally just sitting on their ass. That is a big cohort of people right now-

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:20:26

        What do you think that's-

    24. CHCaleb Hammer1:20:27

        ... mainly men

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:20:27

        ... what's causing that?

    26. CHCaleb Hammer1:20:29

        Um, well, th- they're, hmm. Fuck. Uh, there is a lot of the red pill victim mentality. I don't know if I wanna fully enable it, but, I mean, maybe there's some justification a little bit. But they think that everything's against them. Uh, they think that DEI specifically was preventing them from going to work or preventing them from going to school, that, uh, school's politically captured. There's a survey done that, of people that were choosing not to go to college. 30% said that it's because, 30 or 40% said it was because college was becoming too politically captured. Um, so there is that. Uh, then they don't have jobs. They don't have skills. They don't have experience, so it's harder to get a job. It's easier to just kinda sit at Mom's home, play video games, do drugs.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:21:16

        Jesus. That's bleak.

    28. CHCaleb Hammer1:21:18

        It's bleak. And the gender wars are horrendous right now. I don't know if you see any of it online, but the gender wars are horrible.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:21:25

        The gender wars.

    30. CHCaleb Hammer1:21:26

        Oh, yeah.
17. 1:34:02 – 1:59:05

    Personal responsibility backlash, DollarWise budgeting app, and escaping debt cycles (bankruptcy & consolidation)

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:34:02

       Yeah. But it, but what do you think, why do you think personal responsibility is thought of that way? Is it because people cherish this idea that they're a victim and they hold onto it, that it's a part of their identity, and if you challenge that and say, "No, some of this is your fault"-

    2. CHCaleb Hammer1:34:18

       Yeah

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:34:19

       ... then you're, you're being cruel. You're, you're being, you're a sociopath. You're a fascist.

    4. CHCaleb Hammer1:34:24

       There's a large group of people that want people like me or Dave Ramsey to just give them a hug and then complain about the systemic issues that got them there in the first place.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:34:33

       Right.

    6. CHCaleb Hammer1:34:34

       You can vote. That's great. Go vote for a policy change, wonderful. But you do have a little bit of agency, and I'm not gonna talk to you about what policy you should vote for, 'cause that's, gonna require millions of people to overdo a system that you don't like. What you do have control on right now is whether or not you swipe the card somewhere, whether or not you get a high-interest rate credit card or get a bullshit degree from a private institution out of state. You have those controls right now, and they don't like that. I- the one of the biggest complaints that people like me and Dave Ramsey get is, "Why aren't you talking about the system that got you there?" But that's not the conversation. It isn't. It's a one-on-one personal financial conversation. Let those people fix their lives. Budget. Budget, that's why I made a budgeting app, Dollarwise, by the way, is for that kind of thing.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:35:22

       What is that?

    8. CHCaleb Hammer1:35:23

       I, I made a budgeting app called Dollarwise with my team.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:35:25

       It's called Dollawise?

    10. CHCaleb Hammer1:35:27

        Dollar-

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:35:27

        Dollarwise

    12. CHCaleb Hammer1:35:28

        ... wise, yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:35:28

        Okay.

    14. CHCaleb Hammer1:35:29

        Uh, f- so the average person can actually budget and take some personal responsibility instead of just falling on the victim mindset.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:35:37

        So this app, what do you do? You, you put in your income, you put in your bills.

    16. CHCaleb Hammer1:35:41

        Yeah, yeah. It's that automatic account connections through multiple different services. Uh, so you get your accounts connected and you get to immediate, uh, insights that show where your money's going, what you can do to actually improve your life, and the steps you need to take. It, it fully guides you in that process. It's simple.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:35:59

        So were you motivated to do this just based on these conversations you've had with people that don't know what the fuck to do?

    18. CHCaleb Hammer1:36:04

        That and to make a shit ton of money, but-

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:36:06

        [laughs]

    20. CHCaleb Hammer1:36:06

        Both, both have worked pretty well. Um, but yes, no-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:36:09

        Which is funny. You're making a shit ton of money by people that can't figure out how to save money.

    22. CHCaleb Hammer1:36:13

        Yeah, but if, hey, if they make more money because-

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:36:15

        Right

    24. CHCaleb Hammer1:36:15

        ... they save money and I make more money, that's capitalism winning.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:36:17

        It's a value. Yeah.

    26. CHCaleb Hammer1:36:18

        Yeah, exactly.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:36:18

        You're providing a value. Yeah.

    28. CHCaleb Hammer1:36:19

        No, I mean, that's the point. Like, I used... Mm, did you ever use Mint?

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:36:24

        No.

    30. CHCaleb Hammer1:36:24

        You remember Mint? Okay, so it was a big budgeting app a long time ago, but for some reason, the service that bought it shut it down, and that's what everyone was using. But even then, I remember stopped using it. Like many people, most people fall off of budgeting apps 'cause they're just burdensome.
18. 1:59:05 – 2:15:02

    Emergency funds, crypto skepticism, and closing thoughts on financial literacy

    1. CHCaleb Hammer1:59:05

       Here's the reality. You don't get to have fun if you don't have a fully funded emergency fund. That's a basic reality. Only 60% of Americans can cover a $400 emergency, meaning 40% can't. That's $400.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:59:19

       So what do y- when you say emergency fund, like, what do you consider an emergency fund?

    3. CHCaleb Hammer1:59:23

       So there's a debate between three months to six months of everything you need to live for a month. I'm on that six-month side because, you know, things like the pandemic and shutdowns. We're in that kind of world now, so we may as well go that full way, get a six-month emergency fund. That protects you in case of layoffs or just losing money or a medical emergency, whatever it may be. You got a lifeline. But that's basic. Like, that is so critical to life for, like, a sick pet or a broken car that if you don't have that, I don't want to see you in a drive-through. That can't be acceptable. Going on a vacation is not acceptable if you can't protect you and your family at the basic level. I'll give you a little bit of grace if you're not fully investing, okay, but this is, like, basic survival shit. It needs to be just as critical as having, like, a first aid kit in the house because it's that serious, and that's what causes Americans to just fuck up their houses financially. An emergency happens, a layoff happens, and they're not ready. It's scary, and people are not ready.

    4. JRJoe Rogan2:00:24

       I know. It's like that... The problem is hearing that with young people, it's like that's boring.

    5. CHCaleb Hammer2:00:29

       It is. I know.

    6. JRJoe Rogan2:00:31

       You know, they don't, they don't wanna think that way. They just wanna go have fun. They wanna play video games. They wanna go to the bar.

    7. CHCaleb Hammer2:00:36

       Which is fair, but a six-month emergency fund isn't that crazy. It's not saving millions for retirement. Do that, then have some fun. Get to three months, then have a little bit of fun while you're saving to six.

    8. JRJoe Rogan2:00:47

       Yeah.

    9. CHCaleb Hammer2:00:47

       Just that. Or at least at a minimum be able to cover your highest insurance deductible or, like, a one-month emergency fund. Have something. The fact that 40% don't have $400 set aside, not for a rainy day, for an actual emergency, is terrifying.

    10. JRJoe Rogan2:01:03

        Yeah. So now what are your thoughts on crypto?

    11. CHCaleb Hammer2:01:08

        I like crypto. I have a small amount of Bitcoin in my portfolio. It's pretty good. Uh, 10% of Americans use it as an investment tool, so it's still pretty small for the overall American public. Um, but I mean, I, I, I like it in general. Have we hit the full bubble and pullback? I wonder.

    12. JRJoe Rogan2:01:27

        Well, it's-

    13. CHCaleb Hammer2:01:27

        I'm curious

    14. JRJoe Rogan2:01:27

        ... the, the crypto outside of Bitcoin gets very odd, like meme coins and, you know, I'm heavily invested in Melania coin. I don't know about you.

    15. CHCaleb Hammer2:01:36

        Okay. No, [laughs] not personally.

    16. JRJoe Rogan2:01:38

        I k- I'm kidding.

    17. CHCaleb Hammer2:01:39

        Not in my portfolio.

    18. JRJoe Rogan2:01:40

        [laughs] But there's, like, things like that where, like, what's going on? Like, who, who's putting their money into the Hawk Tuah coin?

    19. CHCaleb Hammer2:01:47

        Yes.

    20. JRJoe Rogan2:01:47

        You know what I mean? It's like this is-- It's a very weird gambling thing we're doing.

    21. CHCaleb Hammer2:01:51

        Mm-hmm.

    22. JRJoe Rogan2:01:51

        It's like a legal pyramid scheme.

    23. CHCaleb Hammer2:01:53

        Yes, exactly, and it's mostly just used by people for a get rich quick.

    24. JRJoe Rogan2:01:57

        Real quick.

    25. CHCaleb Hammer2:01:58

        Like, I don't even know if she made money, uh, Miss Hawk Tuah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan2:02:00

        I think she got fucked.

    27. CHCaleb Hammer2:02:01

        Yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan2:02:01

        I think she got fucked, and her reputation got destroyed. Like, people hated her. They were angry at her afterwards and-

    29. CHCaleb Hammer2:02:06

        Yeah, she gets, like, 5,000 views a video now. It's pretty brutal.

    30. JRJoe Rogan2:02:08

        I think she lo- got sucked into this idea, you know, somehow or another that it was gonna be okay. And they're, like... The people that got sucked into the NFT thing. I remember, man, how many conversations did we have about M- NFTs where I was trying to get someone to explain it to me? Like, no one can explain this to me in a way that makes sense why I can get that same picture and put it on my phone-

Episode duration: 2:15:03