Joe Rogan Experience #2510 - Devon Larratt

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 9:32

   Devon’s bent elbows: surgeries, bone-on-bone, and “weaponized arthritis”

   1. SPSpeaker0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. SPSpeaker0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music]

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      Check, check.

   5. SPSpeaker0:13

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      What's happening, my man?

   7. SPSpeaker0:14

      [laughs] I'm so happy.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      So happy to see you.

   9. SPSpeaker0:16

      Wow.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       What's going on?

   11. SPSpeaker0:17

       Joe, thank you so much, first of all.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       My pleasure.

   13. SPSpeaker0:20

       Feel like, uh, you know, you are the loudspeaker of the planet, man, and I'm so honored to be here.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       That's a very uncomfortable position to be in, I'll tell you that.

   15. SPSpeaker0:29

       [laughs]

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       It's very weird.

   17. SPSpeaker0:29

       Yeah, I bet.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       [laughs]

   19. SPSpeaker0:31

       I bet. But look, I, I mean, you've talked to everybody in the planet, and, uh, I think I'm honored to be your first arm wrestler.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       Yeah, well, if I'm gonna have an arm wrestler, it has to be the GOAT.

   21. SPSpeaker0:41

       Oh.

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       So, yeah.

   23. SPSpeaker0:42

       Highly debated, highly debated, but, uh, I, I'll take it. Thank you.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       You're in the conversation. That's for damn sure.

   25. SPSpeaker0:46

       Yeah, I'm in the conversation. There's a couple of us, I think. Um, John Brzenk. I don't know, how, how close do you follow arm wrestling?

   26. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       Very little.

   27. SPSpeaker0:54

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       I follow you. Well, I'm, I'm most fascinated by the fact that you can't extend your arm.

   29. SPSpeaker0:58

       [laughs] Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       Look at-
3. 9:32 – 11:15

   Pain tolerance, tendon rehab, and the slow grind of grip improvement

   1. SPSpeaker9:32

      Yeah. Uh, pain is a interesting thing to try and master, you know? Um, it's, it's information, and you have to be able to live with it and work with it, but it's, it's, it's good. It's good to have this pain, because it's kind of a guide on where you need to get better. Um, you know, the tendons and the tendinous structures of the elbow are super, super taxed in arm wrestling, and the process of rehabilitation and development of these structures under great duress and trauma i- is, is difficult, and it, it requires a lot of time and monotony, which a lot of people aren't willing to put in.

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:11

      I'm shocked at how much time grip training takes.

   3. SPSpeaker10:15

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:15

      It takes forever. I've, I've-

   5. SPSpeaker10:18

      It's disgusting

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:18

      ... been trying to jack my, my, the, those grip strength things. The strongest I ever got to is 164, and I'm like, "I wanna get to 200."

   7. SPSpeaker10:26

      Mm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:26

      I feel like in my lifetime I can get to 200. I can't get past 164. And the thing is, like, I keep lifting weights with my arms. I keep... And I'm always tired, so, like, every time I squeeze that thing, um, um, my hands are always sore, so I'm like, "Shit, I gotta take some time off to see if I can get it stronger." And so I'm doing all these wrist curls, and I've got the forearm finisher from Golden Grip.

   9. SPSpeaker10:48

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:48

       And I've got these big fat things that I use for, for, for cables to rotate wrists, and my hands got bigger. I'm definitely stronger, but it's like, I don't know when to lay off of it or when to p- like, how many days a week do you do grip training?

   11. SPSpeaker11:04

       [laughs] What's your guess?

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:05

       Every day.

   13. SPSpeaker11:05

       [laughs] Of course.

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:06

       Every day.

   15. SPSpeaker11:07

       Every day. [laughs]

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:08

       And is that the way to do it? Is that the smart way to do it?

   17. SPSpeaker11:11

       Uh-

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:11

       'Cause I know you talk to a lot of those rock climber guys, and they have the craziest grip strength.

4. 11:15 – 13:56

   Arm-wrestling tactics 101: rising, top roll vs hook, and attacking fingertips

   1. SPSpeaker11:15

      Yeah. One of the things that I'll just say right away is a lot of people associate grip with arm wrestling, and 100%, it's, it's m- of massive importance. But the real technical nuance of the sport is to try and make the other person hold onto you.

   2. JRJoe Rogan11:33

      Mm.

   3. SPSpeaker11:33

      Right? So it's not necessarily... Grip is more like defense and added offense, but the first step is to try and tax the other person's grip. But-

   4. JRJoe Rogan11:43

      How do you do that? Uh-

   5. SPSpeaker11:44

      Uh, I think that everything... There's... We're opening up, like, technical arm wrestling, okay? It's-

   6. JRJoe Rogan11:50

      Open it up.

   7. SPSpeaker11:51

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:51

      Let's go.

   9. SPSpeaker11:52

      Okay. So I think in, from my position, the opening move in arm wrestling is a concept called rising. Like, you know the movie Over the Top?

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:02

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SPSpeaker12:02

       Okay, this is the opening step of the sport, and what it is is basically an attempt to get a better grip. And if I can... The, the concept of making the other opponent hold onto you, that's the first step in technical supremacyOkay? If you can make the other person hold onto you, if you can touch their fingers, if you can get their fingers activated and they're holding onto you, that's y- they're m- they're, they're less efficient.

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:30

       Okay.

   13. SPSpeaker12:30

       Yeah. So it's about attacking weakness more than it is about going where you're strong.

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:35

       So they're the most efficient when it's palm to palm and everything's gripped nice and tight.

   15. SPSpeaker12:39

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:39

       And as soon as you get, like, out here ...

   17. SPSpeaker12:41

       You want the pressure, uh, interaction to be unfair to your advantage.

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:46

       Hmm. Right.

   19. SPSpeaker12:47

       Right? Like, if, if we were to arm wrestle, you would want to put the pressure in my fingertips.

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:52

       Right.

   21. SPSpeaker12:52

       Like, with, like, almost, like, a hammer type motion.

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:54

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SPSpeaker12:54

       Right? So you're basically... It's almost like a curl. It's, it's more complicated, but that's, like, the first way to start to think about it. Like, people think about arm wrestling, they think about pinning each other.

   24. JRJoe Rogan13:04

       Right.

   25. SPSpeaker13:05

       And this is, this is a very shortsighted way to think about the sport. You, you think about pulling the match close to you. This, this concept of rising is this upwards, spinning, slipping motion where the end result is you have a better grip.

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:20

       Hmm.

   27. SPSpeaker13:21

       And anything that they try and do, it's gonna go through the weakest system they have, which is their fingertips.

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:27

       Hmm.

   29. SPSpeaker13:27

       Yeah. So it is great to have an awesome grip. Really-

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:30

       But that's not everything.
5. 13:56 – 18:36

   Devon’s daily training structure: table time, basement pulley setups, and all-day volume

   1. SPSpeaker13:56

      Uh, my structure right now, and I think that I'm probably one of the most dedicated arm wrestlers in the world in time, in, in terms of, like, what I do with my life and how much energy I give the sport, is I, I base it off of a week. Okay? So I train with a club probably twice a week. This changes, but typically I'm going twice a week, and these are my hardest days. And I go in there and I just completely redline and max out in the sport. Okay? All the, the... Exactly what I gotta do, I'm doing at my highest, highest capacity. I, I have, uh, my [laughs] my family, we're all arm [laughs] wrestlers. So my kid, uh, he, I mean, he's a pro, too. He's-

   2. JRJoe Rogan14:39

      Wow.

   3. SPSpeaker14:39

      Yeah, he's competing this weekend.

   4. JRJoe Rogan14:41

      That's crazy.

   5. SPSpeaker14:41

      Yeah, it's crazy. So we, like, we, we have our own thing where we'll hit a, hit a m- like, we'll train together. Um, but really two hard sessions, uh, a week, and then whatever I fit in with my kids. Uh, and then, uh, the rest of the days are, like, mindless... Not... Just the monotony level is extreme. Uh, my wife and I, I'm retired, right? So I have nothing but time. Uh, and I try to make... I just try and put everything into it. So, like, it's all day, man. It's all day. I wake up and I'm training, like, all day. Um-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:19

      So these machines, like, this is some of the shit that you have.

   7. SPSpeaker15:22

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:22

      Now, is this a machine that's specifically designed for arm wrestling? Does, did this exist or did you, uh, did you help create this?

   9. SPSpeaker15:30

      Uh, this actually machine is handed down for me from, uh, the best female arm wrestler ever to exist, uh, Leanne Dufresne, uh, Johnny Roberts. So this is, like, a very standard arm wrestling equipment. It's basically an arm wrestling table with a cable system. And this is super old, okay? This, this table you're looking at here, that's, like, 40-year-old table.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       Hmm.

   11. SPSpeaker15:51

       And it's, it's still working. But yeah, you can buy a pulley system on a table, and that's really... Like, this is basically all I do. I work on, off of a table. Different angles, different pressures that all just replicate the pressures in arm wrestling.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:05

       So you have a, a fat grip, looks like a PVC tube, and then you're using that to work your fingertips and roll your wrists and just get to be really strong at that position where you're turning someone's wrist over?

   13. SPSpeaker16:18

       We call that a multi-spinner. And what's interesting about it is you see it's a single point attachment.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:24

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SPSpeaker16:24

       So it's a little bit like Swiss ball for the wrist. So it's, it's a-

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       Swiss ball? What's that?

   17. SPSpeaker16:29

       You know, like, a Swiss ball. Like, uh, people do, like, squats on them. Like, the ball in the gym. People do, like, slip-

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:35

       Oh, like a BOSU ball? Is that what it's called?

   19. SPSpeaker16:37

       BOSU is, like, a half, right?

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:38

       Oh, is that what it is? Okay.

   21. SPSpeaker16:39

       Swiss ball is, like, just the big round balls that you s-

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:42

       Okay.

   23. SPSpeaker16:43

       Yeah. And you see people-

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:44

       Like a yoga ball.

   25. SPSpeaker16:44

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:45

       Whatever they-

   27. SPSpeaker16:45

       Mm-hmm

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:45

       ... they call them.

   29. SPSpeaker16:46

       Right. You ever jumped on a Swiss ball and done squats or anything?

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       No.
6. 18:36 – 22:35

   Why he ditched heavy lifting: energy budgeting, precision, and staying elite at 51

   1. JRJoe Rogan18:36

      Why that over, why is that more beneficial than s- like, hard strength training, like s- small, uh, reps, like low numbers of reps but high weight?

   2. SPSpeaker18:44

      So super debatable, okay? And I've done all of it.

   3. JRJoe Rogan18:49

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SPSpeaker18:51

      Um, what I've found is, in my opinion, you only have so much energy, and this is something we gotta really weigh in, because if I could just smash, you know, heavy stuff all the time and s- take steps forward, I'd do it. But, um, I, I've found that you don't wanna detract from the thing that you're really, really trying to do. So anything that takes away from your ability to do that, I think you should look at cutting. The best part of my training is on the table, so anything that kinda messes with that, I don't wanna do it. I've done a lot of systems where I'm lifting heavy, but the thing is, is they take energy, they take resources, and what I really wanna do is prepare my body so I can do that specific task as, as good as possible. The, the high-rep training heals me. It heals me. A lot of people are like, "Oh, that's a lot of work," and I'm like, "It's really not." Um, it's just, it's a form of healing almost.

   5. JRJoe Rogan19:42

      Hmm.

   6. SPSpeaker19:43

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:43

      Interesting.

   8. SPSpeaker19:44

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan19:44

      Just the blood flow and the consistent movement and high repetitions.

   10. SPSpeaker19:50

       Yes. Um, it's h- this is highly debated, okay? But I'm proving it over and over, over the years. I, I, I started doing... 'Cause arm wrestling's a strength sport, no doubt about it. Uh, so right away people think, oh, you know, heavy weight and, you know, high reps is dangerous because you're gonna become an endurance guy, and it's, it's gonna make you weaker. Um, but when you go low, your, your work volume is tremendous, okay? If you're doing light, light weight all day long, I mean, the amount of total weight that you're lifting becomes astronomical, and I think that that adaptation over long periods is wonderful. And you can't get the blood flow through the connective structures without movement. So this is, this is really why I do it. Uh, the healing aspects, the overall metabolic conditioning that you get. Um, yeah, and, and the taper is a big part of it as well, you know. Uh, but yeah, I'm doing all my heavy lifting specifically in the sport.

   11. JRJoe Rogan20:57

       Hmm.

   12. SPSpeaker20:57

       Like, I'm, I'm not, I'm not doing my heavy lifting at this time in my career. Uh, a- and also, Joe, I'm 51 a- and I'm plagued with injuries, so I have to be very specific. I have to be very precise. Uh, yeah, this is the best formula I've come up with.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:11

       And when you were younger, did you approach it differently? What-

   14. SPSpeaker21:14

       I have made so many mistakes.

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:15

       What was the initial approach? Just lift as heavy as you can?

   16. SPSpeaker21:19

       Yeah, lift as heavy as I can.

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:21

       Well, you're a giant dude already, right? So you already naturally have, like, big bones, big genetics. So did you power lift? Like, what did you, what'd you do or initially?

   18. SPSpeaker21:30

       I was a, a judo guy. I was a basketball guy. Um, I was a military guy. So I did a lot of different stuff. I was very cross-trained. I even, I even did, um, Ironman for a bit. Uh, but-

   19. JRJoe Rogan21:45

       God, that's gotta be so hard for you.

   20. SPSpeaker21:46

       [laughs] Yeah. It's really-

   21. JRJoe Rogan21:47

       All that weight.

   22. SPSpeaker21:49

       Ah, yeah. I, so I would... When I say Ironman, apologies, uh, not traditional, military Ironman. So-

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:55

       What's the difference?

   24. SPSpeaker21:57

       Military Ironman, you're doing it with a backpack. You're portaging a canoe. You're paddling. You're running with a backpack. So that race, you know, a winning time is, you know, probably anything under six hours, like five and a half to six hours. So it's long duration, but it's slightly heavier. So I'm still big, even for that. Like, most champions, most guys who win the Ironman are, you know, average size or even smaller. But, uh, yeah, the si- I mean, I'm a bigger person. [laughs] But yeah, I, I did a lot of different sports, but I've, I've always loved arm wrestling. It's always been the one I've come back to. It's, you know.

7. 22:35 – 25:36

   Origins and culture: arm wrestling with his grandmother, clubs as family, and longevity

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:35

      What is it about it?

   2. SPSpeaker22:37

      I, I think that there's a lot of things about it. You know, for me personally, it was my first sport. Like, I started arm wrestling with my grandmother when I was, like, four years old, and-

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:46

      With your grandmother?

   4. SPSpeaker22:46

      Yeah. Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:47

      Really?

   6. SPSpeaker22:48

      Never underestimate the power, uh, of a grandmother.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:51

      [laughs]

   8. SPSpeaker22:52

      Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, I was a rowdy little kid, and, you know, in a, in a, with a German mother who didn't let me do too much crazy stuff around the house, and my grandmother used to come over, and it was a reward system. She'd tell me to do chores, and, uh, the result was, uh, I got to arm wrestle with her.

   9. JRJoe Rogan23:11

      [laughs]

   10. SPSpeaker23:13

       Yeah. I never beat her.

   11. JRJoe Rogan23:15

       That's crazy.

   12. SPSpeaker23:15

       I never beat her. Uh, it's, it's funny, um, her name was Lavonne, um, and the current super heavyweight world champion is Lavard. Uh, so I've never beat either of them.

   13. JRJoe Rogan23:29

       [laughs]

   14. SPSpeaker23:29

       Yeah, yeah. It's a bit trippy. Uh, but yeah, so I started, I started young. Um, I, I love arm wrestling because it's, uh, it's a very safe fight, okay? Like, I, I, I, I love fighting. E- everything in my life has been about fighting. And, um, arm wrestling is one of those fight sports that has super low cost. Like, we don't punch each other in the head. Uh, I'll be able to walk, uh, nothing on my spine. Uh, my elbows don't straighten, you know? So it's low cost. You can do it your whole life. Like, we have, we've had world champions in the open division who are almost 70.

   15. JRJoe Rogan24:09

       What?

   16. SPSpeaker24:09

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan24:10

       What?

   18. SPSpeaker24:11

       Yeah, that's cool, right?

   19. JRJoe Rogan24:12

       That's incredible.

   20. SPSpeaker24:13

       I love it. I l-

   21. JRJoe Rogan24:13

       How is that possible?

   22. SPSpeaker24:14

       Yeah. It, the hand is weird. Like, this thing here is designed for volume, and it just slowly builds, you know? The hand is, the structure is, it has so much connective tissues in it, so much tendon, and that just, it takes so long to build. You know, age is an advantage in a lot of ways, 'cause you just have more time to get further in arm wrestling. Yeah, I'm 51. I'm telling you, I, I probably competed at the highest level, and I, I believe I can still go further. Uh, it's non-typical, you know? It's non-typical. And I, the, the thing that I love most about it-The very most is, is the family and the bonds. Uh, arm wrestling clubs are special places. Um, it's very blue collar. It's, uh, open doors, man. There's, there's not a lot of money associated with the sport in terms of membership fees or... I mean, we, we are wrestling in each other's garages and houses, and, um, and it, it breeds a very tight family. Like, I consider the club that I train with, like, they're my family. Like, so, um, that's my fa- I mean, that's what sport's all about, you know?

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:24

       Mm-hmm.

   24. SPSpeaker25:24

       Yeah. Yeah. And, and arm wrestling is very conducive to that.

   25. JRJoe Rogan25:27

       So when you say it's non-typical that you could compete at this level, the, at this age, what, what... How old are, like, most of the top guys?

8. 25:36 – 53:20

   Crazy George and the King’s Move: pronation, unusual forearm muscles, and style evolution

   1. SPSpeaker25:36

      I'd say that you hit your probably peak typically when you are low 30s. So very standard, you know? [laughs] Oh, that's my buddy Pork Chop. Oh, there's Crazy George. This is the guy, okay? So this guy-

   2. JRJoe Rogan25:50

      Which one's Crazy George?

   3. SPSpeaker25:50

      The dude who's down there. Uh, not the guy in the green shirt. So these are both my good buddies.

   4. JRJoe Rogan25:55

      And this is the guy who can't straighten his arms out?

   5. SPSpeaker25:57

      Uh, he can't, no. He's super locked up, okay? But, so he's doing this move called a King's move, or outside top roll. And you see Pork Chop's wrist is bent back. I, I love Porky. I train with Porky twice a week. Um, but yeah, Crazy George... And Crazy George is, like, 160 pounds, and Porky-

   6. JRJoe Rogan26:17

      Really?

   7. SPSpeaker26:17

      Yeah, and Porky's, like, 230, completely tremendously jacked and strong. Yeah. And Pork Chop is, like, a professional arm wrestler pulling at East versus West, okay? That's our highest league. And Crazy George is [laughs] yeah. He's-

   8. JRJoe Rogan26:32

      That's incredible.

   9. SPSpeaker26:33

      Yeah, yeah. It's completely incredible. Um, yeah. There's another guy from our club, Matt Smith, against Crazy George. I think Matt actually may have beaten him here. This is actually the time period of Crazy George's downfall, okay? So-

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:46

       How old is Crazy George in this film?

   11. SPSpeaker26:48

       He'd probably be late 60s here, okay?

   12. JRJoe Rogan26:51

       Wow.

   13. SPSpeaker26:51

       Yeah. He's a absolute legend to me in the sport. Like, technically, so this guy, he spent the first, like, 20 years in the sport two up, two down, okay? Go to tournament, double elimination. He's... And that's the Canadian champ. These guys are all champions that you see him arm wrestling with. And he invented, basically... He didn't invent it, but there were very few people doing this style of arm wrestling, okay? We call it an outside top roll or a King's move. And he really figured it out, and, um, very difficult, very difficult to deal with.

   14. JRJoe Rogan27:27

       And what is he doing? He's dropping down and lowering his body weight.

   15. SPSpeaker27:33

       Yeah. So there's many kinda main strengths in arm wrestling, okay? There's, uh, f- rising strength, there's pronational strength, there's cupping strength, and this pronational... And you see this, like, this is, like, my favorite example.

   16. JRJoe Rogan27:50

       Jesus Christ.

   17. SPSpeaker27:50

       Okay?

   18. JRJoe Rogan27:50

       Look at that thing.

   19. SPSpeaker27:51

       [laughs]

   20. JRJoe Rogan27:51

       That's so weird.

   21. SPSpeaker27:52

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan27:52

       Show that.

   23. SPSpeaker27:53

       [laughs]

   24. JRJoe Rogan27:53

       Show that.

   25. SPSpeaker27:53

       All right. So that-

   26. JRJoe Rogan27:53

       Look, look at that m- who the fuck has that muscle?

   27. SPSpeaker27:55

       Right. Arm wrestlers.

   28. JRJoe Rogan27:56

       That muscle's so weird.

   29. SPSpeaker27:58

       Arm... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, so that turn-

   30. JRJoe Rogan27:59

       I don't even think I have that.
9. 53:20 – 1:05:24

   Chasing the unbeatable: Levan’s size, training differences, and Devon’s closest moment

   1. SPSpeaker53:20

      Uh, this is constantly what pretty much every reasonable person tells me, and I just am like... I get to a point where I do my arm wrestling work and I'm like, "Okay, here I am. If I wanna beat Levan, um, what do I do from here?" And I just am like, "More wrist curls."

   2. JRJoe Rogan53:37

      [laughs]

   3. SPSpeaker53:38

      You know? Uh, lookit, my-

   4. JRJoe Rogan53:40

      What does he do?

   5. SPSpeaker53:41

      Uh, he's a bit more balanced than me. He, he... Levan lifts super heavy weights, uh, like stupid.

   6. JRJoe Rogan53:47

      What does this dude looks like?

   7. SPSpeaker53:48

      [laughs] Oh my God.

   8. JRJoe Rogan53:48

      Show me, show me Levan. What is his last name?

   9. SPSpeaker53:51

      [laughs] Saganishvili.

   10. JRJoe Rogan53:53

       Whoa. That's a crazy name.

   11. SPSpeaker53:54

       This is the pinnacle of our sport, okay? This is the guy.

   12. JRJoe Rogan53:57

       How big is this dude?

   13. SPSpeaker53:59

       He gets about 420.

   14. JRJoe Rogan54:00

       [laughs]

   15. SPSpeaker54:01

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan54:02

       Oh my God.

   17. SPSpeaker54:03

       I love this guy.

   18. JRJoe Rogan54:04

       Look at the size of this motherfucker.

   19. SPSpeaker54:06

       This, this is-

   20. JRJoe Rogan54:06

       Holy shit.

   21. SPSpeaker54:07

       This is... Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan54:07

       [laughs] I'd say that's all AI, but- That can't be real.

   23. SPSpeaker54:09

       No, it's-

   24. JRJoe Rogan54:09

       Is that AI?

   25. SPSpeaker54:10

       No, that's-

   26. JRJoe Rogan54:10

       Is that picture AI?

   27. SPSpeaker54:11

       No, that's-

   28. JRJoe Rogan54:11

       That one right there.

   29. SPSpeaker54:12

       Okay, that's real.

   30. JRJoe Rogan54:13

       Oh my- That one's real
10. 1:05:24 – 1:12:27

    The GOAT era: John Brzenk, specialization without weights, and arm wrestling’s evolution

    1. SPSpeaker1:05:24

       I've been there before. Like, so in 2008, I was actually, I, I won against this legendary figure for the sport, John Brzenk. He's considered the greatest of all time. John Brzenk, uh, basically, for 40 years, 40 years, from the time he was, like, 18 to, like, almost 60, okay, he, he went undefeated for, like, basically undefeated for, like, 25 years.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:05:50

       [laughs]

    3. SPSpeaker1:05:51

       Yeah, in American. This guy, this guy, super cool, okay, different era. And you'll see the difference, okay, so you'll see that this sport has changed.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:06:00

       Can we pull him up? Do you mean-

    5. SPSpeaker1:06:02

       John Brzenk. John Brzenk's the GOAT. Yeah. Yeah, he'll be there this weekend, too.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:06:07

       And is he still competing?

    7. SPSpeaker1:06:09

       John is not really competing, but he's just so tied into the sport. I think it's inevitable that he comes back, but-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:06:16

       How old is he?

    9. SPSpeaker1:06:17

       He's, like, 60, 61 or, yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:06:19

        Wow.

    11. SPSpeaker1:06:20

        Yeah, yeah, he's the man. This guy's the man. So you know the movie Over the Top?

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:06:24

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SPSpeaker1:06:25

        Uh, so Sylvester, that's actually John. The tournament was real.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:06:31

        Really?

    15. SPSpeaker1:06:32

        Oh, yeah, that was a real... The movie followed the tournament, and John is actually the guy who won it.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:06:38

        And J- and John's not that big.

    17. SPSpeaker1:06:39

        No, he's not.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:06:40

        How much does John weigh?

    19. SPSpeaker1:06:42

        On a good day, on a great day, John's, like, 230, but, but-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:06:46

        Wow

    21. SPSpeaker1:06:46

        ... but when he was young and healthy, probably 195. Like-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:06:50

        So when he was winning.

    23. SPSpeaker1:06:51

        When he, like, he went, like, he went, like, 25 years around 210 pounds, beating every single person on the planet.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:07:00

        How?

    25. SPSpeaker1:07:01

        He's awesome. He's awesome. John Brzenk, so John started arm wrestling was, when he was a kid with his dad. And he's one of the first guys-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:07:09

        Can we see him do it? Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to pull it up.

    27. SPSpeaker1:07:10

        John's one of the first guys who... Arm wrestling has kind of evolved in its respectedness, okay, as a sport. I think if you went back, like, 40 years and you talk about arm wrestling, uh, people would be like, "Oh, that's cool. Yeah, let's go arm wrestle." Like, "And I'm gonna get better by arm wrestling by doing pecs and glutes and, you know, getting my whole body strong." And John was kinda one of the first guys who was like, "I'm an arm wrestler. I, I practice arm wrestling. I go to tournaments. I don't need to lift weights," okay? So he started young.Uh, the dude's thumb is probably, like, bigger than mine, and he's, like, you know, 6'1", 6'2". So he's, to a certain degree, built for it. But, um, masterful technician. Um-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:07:55

        So he doesn't lift weights?

    29. SPSpeaker1:07:57

        No.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:07:58

        So all he did was arm wrestle to train for arm wrestling?
11. 1:12:27 – 1:19:12

    Money, leagues, and PED policy: ESPN days, COVID reset, East vs West dominance

    1. SPSpeaker1:12:27

       Last time he competed was in Dallas. He competed against a guy called Yoshi Kanai, uh, who's the number one guy from Japan. Um, John is way past his prime, okay? Like, John, John, uh, when John was, like, in his 30s, he was like the Levan, but 210 pounds. Nobody could beat him. It, it took a while, but the thing is, arm wrestling got cool, you know, to a degree, where we were on ESPN. Uh, governments started to recognize it, so if you were from the right country, you know, you could be a pro arm wrestler, like if you're from Georgia or Turkey or Kazakhstan, you know. So the level started rising.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:13:09

       When did this start happening?

    3. SPSpeaker1:13:10

       Um, I think that governments started to recognize it, I'm gonna guess here that a lot of them started to do it around the turn of the millennia, okay? Probably they started around then, but it takes a long time for the, it all to, like, get in... And, and some countries are still switching over. I think Sweden just got recognized, like, I think within the last year or so. But once a country recognizes it as a sport, it's a massive influx of cash and support, so that'll raise the level. Um, but what happened was we got, there was all these leagues.Like, there was, uh, the PAL in Europe, there was the WAL in, in North America, and it, and it, and it got the sport to a point where if you were the best, you could probably quit your job.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:14:00

       Mm.

    5. SPSpeaker1:14:01

       Okay? And that was a huge step forward because, you know, um... Yeah, that's a big step, right? And that happened around, uh, 2015.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:14:12

       And do you think that's because of the internet? Like, YouTube videos, like, popularity increases, TikTok, Instagram, that kind of shit?

    7. SPSpeaker1:14:19

       I, uh, that was massive, but that happened a bit later. Um, first what happened, a lot of small little steps. Uh, you know, there was a documentary, Pulling John, that came out. Uh, there was a couple rich guys who thought arm wrestling was cool, and they just started to run leagues. Uh, Robert Drink with the UAL, uh, Ultimate Arm Wrestling League out of California. I mean, it went from, like, when I first started the sport, Mike Gould Classic, if we won 500 bucks, it was the greatest day of our life, you know? It was so cool, we won 500 bucks. Like, you know, um, that was it. Uh, and then with, by, by, by 2010 or so, to even before that, the PAL, we were talking about thousands of dollars, $10,000. WAL came along and we got a massive influx of money. We were talking about $20,000, okay? And then we were on ESPN, so there were sponsors, okay, so you could get some sponsor money. If you were the best, you could barely make it. You could barely make it, and then, uh, and then COVID happened, and COVID burnt down everything, burnt down all the leagues, which were kind of fractioning the sport, right? We had the best guys from Europe competing t-together, best guys from North America. When all the leagues burnt down, from the ashes... And a lot of people... And that's when TikTok and YouTube really started ticking, 'cause everybody was locked in their house, and somehow arm wrestling got found, and our views went through the roof. People started to follow. Arm wrestling's good for TikTok attention span, you know.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:15:54

       Mm-hmm, sure.

    9. SPSpeaker1:15:54

       You can see a whole... Yeah. And, uh, and then yeah, so East versus West came along, and now we're everything. Uh, UFC, we're like the UFC of, of arm wrestling now, East versus West. All the best guys in the world all pull at East versus West, and there's an event every seven weeks, international.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:16:13

        So, like, what does a top guy make to win a tournament now?

    11. SPSpeaker1:16:16

        Um, you know, it's, it's tricky when we talk about money, but you will make... Like, if you're a, if a, if you're a top arm wrestler now, you're, you're definitely, you definitely don't need an es- a side job. You definitely don't. Um, and you're, and you're, you're probably definitely making a, a healthy, a healthy six figures, you know. Definitely. Um, so yeah. So East versus West kinda raised the level. After COVID, it's not the same sport. It's not. Like, the champions now, like, [laughs] it's tough. It's tough to win a w- world t- way harder to win a world title now than it was 10 or 15, 20 years ago.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:16:55

        Mm.

    13. SPSpeaker1:16:56

        Yeah, yeah. Now we have Levan.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:16:58

        Right.

    15. SPSpeaker1:16:59

        Yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:16:59

        Is there any drug testing?

    17. SPSpeaker1:17:01

        At East versus West there's not, okay? So it's, it's F1, you know, everything, everything goes, but-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:17:06

        What does F1 mean?

    19. SPSpeaker1:17:07

        Uh, you know, like IndyCar?

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:17:09

        Uh-huh.

    21. SPSpeaker1:17:09

        Everybody's got the same car.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:17:11

        Right.

    23. SPSpeaker1:17:11

        F1, like-

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:17:13

        Okay

    25. SPSpeaker1:17:13

        ... innovation.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:17:14

        Right.

    27. SPSpeaker1:17:14

        Innovation. Um, uh, WAF, government funded, that has testing.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:17:21

        What is WAF?

    29. SPSpeaker1:17:21

        Oh, sorry. World Armwrestling Federation.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:17:23

        Okay.
12. 1:19:12 – 1:27:20

    Chaos vs order: sticker charts, training blocks, and ‘pumpkin’ right-hand specialization

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:19:12

       The balance between chaos and order is interesting, because you kinda... To become great, you kinda have to have some chaos.

    2. SPSpeaker1:19:18

       You... It's so essential.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:19:20

       Yeah.

    4. SPSpeaker1:19:20

       Chaos is a huge part of it.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:19:22

       Talk to me about that.

    6. SPSpeaker1:19:22

       Oh.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:19:23

       What is that?

    8. SPSpeaker1:19:23

       This is, this is s- I love this one. This is so good. Um, this is one of my latest learning points that I, I've taken into account, uh, and it's massively affected my planning, um, the way I, the way I plan events. Uh, so I have met many people in my life, and I've met probably in my entire life probably, like, two people who I would consider completely pure, you know? Like-Basically like a Jesus Christ kind of person, like no sin. Okay? But, and, and, and on the other side I've, I've met only like a couple people who I thought were genuinely pure evil or, you know. Uh, but I think most people are somewhere in the middle. Okay? And, and they need that balance in their life, you know? Um, and I think that you need to, if you're talking about performance on a single date, this balance of what you are needs to be structured. Um, so I think that actually in the fight, like when you're actually fighting, um, a lot of people I think perform best in chaos. Okay? So when you get into the stage, you have to be completely wild. Uh, no rules. Like you need to be completely unhinged. Um, but leading up to it, you need to structure. You need to really become very ordered, and the more you can bring order into your life, the better. Um, I went to a, a kind of a, a presentation, uh, by this, by this guy Mack, okay? He's a geneticist as well, and he was talking about how life only exists in this balance between chaos and order. And, and from that I, I brought that into my training by making sticker charts. So when I was young, my mom used to motivate me through sticker charts. So when I did a good job she'd give me a sticker, and I loved it. So I have brought this concept into my training where, uh, there's only two stickers. There's, there's a blue sticker which is, uh, you didn't quite make it. It's representative of chaos. And, uh, and, and a white sticker which is a representative of order. And after I compete I, I purposefully move into chaos, and it's not as though like, "Oh, I'm in chaos," and I let everything catch on fire. I just, I don't need structure. I can go wherever. I can learn new things. I can try new things. I can open up my mind to whatever I want. Nothing's required. But really I'm trying to gather data, put together a plan so that when I move into structure I have a new kind of plan. Um-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:22:08

       So how do you st- structure that?

    10. SPSpeaker1:22:11

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:22:11

        Like when, when you say you move into chaos, like you allow yourself to not have a plan.

    12. SPSpeaker1:22:15

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:22:15

        Like w- so this is obviously very planned.

    14. SPSpeaker1:22:18

        Yes. Yeah. So I will move from major... My life is structured that I mo- uh, my, it's in blocks. Okay? So I move from major event to major event. I am now at the very beginning of probably the longest block that I've ever had in my life. I'm gonna face that guy, Levan, in like 16 months. It's forever. It's an eternity. You know? So I am now in this period when I can travel, I can, I can just, I can be more open. Um, in a way it, it helps get me there, you know? I am trying to come up with what I think is the perfect blend so that when I lock into my basement I'm being super accurate. But I do believe that if you just try and be good every day, if you try and live a certain way every day, it creeps into your life. I need like a finish line. Okay? Like if I know I only have to be like this for four months or five months, I can make it, you know? If I'm like, "I have to be like this for my whole life," everything creeps in, it falls apart. But it, it's a, it's a aid for me psychologically to remain disciplined, and it's, and it's a way for me to fit chaos into my life where it satisfies me as a human being and I get to have fun and, uh, I get to go outside of my box. But, um, that's the hardest thing to be a world champion at 51, is to put all your energy into something so simple. This is the most difficult piece, is the psychological dedication to do 10 hours of wrist curls in a day. You know? This is the difficult-

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:24:03

        You do 10 hours of wrist curls every day?

    16. SPSpeaker1:24:05

        Dude, I do. [laughs] I, I'll go, I'll get up in the morning and my wife Jodie will help me. Okay? We'll have food, and I'm doing like... And, and that's the thing. So right now I'm coming up with the formula for the next one, but I was doing 14, uh, seven times two, uh, 'cause I was doing right and left. I'm going back to pumpkin training, which is right hand only. Uh-

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:24:32

        Why do you call that pumpkin training?

    18. SPSpeaker1:24:33

        You know about growing giant pumpkins?

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:24:35

        No.

    20. SPSpeaker1:24:36

        You know those, you know, you ever seen those fairs where they have like a-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:24:40

        Mm-hmm

    22. SPSpeaker1:24:40

        ... 100 pound... Right.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:24:41

        Yeah.

    24. SPSpeaker1:24:42

        So what that tell, what that teaches is if you wanna have a giant pumpkin you pinch off all the flowers on the vine except for one.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:24:52

        Oh.

    26. SPSpeaker1:24:52

        Yeah. My giant pumpkin.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:24:54

        [laughs]

    28. SPSpeaker1:24:56

        Yeah, so I've try and put everything into the right. I try and put all... And this is, so this is specialization. So I've done this project for like, I did it for like six years before.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:25:07

        So when you're saying you put everything in the right, you mean you don't do li- r- wrist curls or anything with your left hand?

    30. SPSpeaker1:25:12

        Nothing.
13. 1:27:20 – 2:08:58

    Freak genetics and crossover grip worlds: climbers, one-arm anomalies, and hidden monsters

    1. SPSpeaker1:27:20

       Okay? But, um, when you get hurt in the one side, I think that a lot of people notice that somehow there's this amazing compensation that happens. Um, an- another thing is we have freaks in the sport. We have, we attract some real weirdos, okay? A guy called Oleg Zhokh or, uh, or Matthias Schlitte, okay? And these are Hellboys, real-life Hellboys, okay? So they have like one arm that is crazy jacked.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:27:52

       I've seen this one cat. He's a small dude-

    3. SPSpeaker1:27:55

       Yeah

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:27:56

       ... and he has one arm that's like a leg.

    5. SPSpeaker1:27:58

       Yeah.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:27:59

       What is his name?

    7. SPSpeaker1:27:59

       Probably Oleg. It's Oleg or Matthias. They're our best examples. Oleg is, is better. Like, Oleg, Oleg's a world champion.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:28:06

       What's his last name?

    9. SPSpeaker1:28:07

       Zhokh. [laughs]

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:28:09

        What a great name.

    11. SPSpeaker1:28:09

        Oh, he's so cool.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:28:10

        What a great name.

    13. SPSpeaker1:28:11

        Yeah, and see-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:28:12

        Oh, that's the dude.

    15. SPSpeaker1:28:12

        Yeah, yeah.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:28:13

        Yeah.

    17. SPSpeaker1:28:13

        That...

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:28:13

        That's the dude.

    19. SPSpeaker1:28:13

        And I've fought him. I've, I've-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:28:14

        Look at the size of his fucking-

    21. SPSpeaker1:28:16

        Yeah

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:28:16

        ... left arm.

    23. SPSpeaker1:28:17

        Right.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:28:17

        That is m- that is insanity.

    25. SPSpeaker1:28:19

        Yeah, yeah. Okay, I actually pulled this guy at the UAL many years ago, and he was like 165 pounds, and I was, and I was the current world champion, and the kid almost beat me, okay?

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:28:29

        Wow.

    27. SPSpeaker1:28:30

        Yeah, yeah.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:28:30

        Left-handed.

    29. SPSpeaker1:28:31

        Left-handed, yeah. Um-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:28:33

        Jesus Christ, his arm is insane.
14. 2:08:58 – 2:27:28

    Special forces career: OPSEC conflict, going pro at 39, and performance under fear

    1. JRJoe Rogan2:08:58

       Well, you have a extensive military experience, too. Like, you started off... Like, when... What, what is the Canadian version of what you, what, what branch of the military you were in?

    2. SPSpeaker2:09:08

       I was with a unit called JTF2 for 16 out of my 20 years.

    3. JRJoe Rogan2:09:13

       Yeah. Mm.

    4. SPSpeaker2:09:14

       It was great. I'd, I'd still be there if I could, really, but it got too complicated and I had to leave. But, uh, yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:09:22

       How so? What do you mean?

    6. SPSpeaker2:09:23

       Uh, it wa- you know, I don't wanna say it was entirely one thing or another, but it, it really probably had a lot to do with arm wrestling and, and the visibility of arm wrestling. Like, I, I've been arm wrestling my whole life, but, uh, jeez, it was 19 I think. Um, or sorry, not '19, it was 2014, and we were on ESPN at the time, and up till that point, I was not declared military in the public eye. Like, I was a farmer as far as everybody was concerned. You know, I tried to play the operational security as, as well as I could, and, uh, you know, um, I was a active, active JTF2 member. Um, but there were a lot of concerns about the growth of arm wrestling for me and my, you know, exposure and, you know, part of being an operator is, you know, you have to, you have to be anonymous. You get on an airplane, you can't have people taking pictures of you and-

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:10:19

       Oh, right

    8. SPSpeaker2:10:19

       ... right. So arm wrestling, because of where, where I was, and it was on ESPN and going further, they're like, "Devon, you have to choose." And I'm like, "Oh my God, I've been arm wrestling since I was a kid." So the long and short of that is, uh, they offered me a year off, uh, no pay. I took it. [laughs] I took it, I took the year off, and we were... I was gathering apples and eating sardines and sending my kids to school with dried apples, and me and my wife were like, "Oh my God, are we crazy?" Like, "Are we crazy?"

    9. JRJoe Rogan2:10:48

       Just so you could try to make it in arm wrestling?

    10. SPSpeaker2:10:51

        It was, uh, it was complicated. It was complicated.

    11. JRJoe Rogan2:10:53

        Wow.

    12. SPSpeaker2:10:53

        Yeah. I'd, I'd, I'd done, like, seven tours and, um, it, it's weird when you do a lot of tours, you know, um, things start to gray out a little bit. And-

    13. JRJoe Rogan2:11:05

        How so?

    14. SPSpeaker2:11:06

        Everything is about mission in life, right? Like, everything. Like, if you don't have a good mission, your life is gonna fall to shit. And as soon as you start to question any kind of that, mm, and, you know, you, you, you play in that realm long enough, most guys start to... At the beginning, I mean, you're just either so patriotic or, you know, just so down to, uh, you know, help your country or whatever, or the people around you, that you don't really... You're undeterred. And I think that probably sometime around that point in my career, um, maybe I was struggling slightly, and that combined with the, uh, them telling me that I wasn't able to do something that was, like, the only thing I did, you know, when I left work, uh, was kind of the thing that kinda make me take kind of a stand in my life that I was gonna, you know, follow sport instead of war. Um, sport's beautiful. Sport's very clearly building civilization. And war, you know, the further you go in it just gets to a level of murk where you're not sure. So yeah, so I-

    15. JRJoe Rogan2:12:24

        When you say you're not sure, you're not sure if you should be doing what you're doing? You're not sure if the mission should be happening?

    16. SPSpeaker2:12:29

        Mm. Yeah, because I think most people join the military and stay in the military because they genuinely believe that they're benefiting mankind or civilization to some degree. It's a big part of it. Not, nobody's there for the money, you know? I mean, some people-

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:12:43

        Right

    18. SPSpeaker2:12:43

        ... at the beginning, some people are 'cause we're broke, right?

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:12:46

        Right.

    20. SPSpeaker2:12:46

        But I mean, once you spend, like, 10 years, I mean, uh, you're, you're probably okay. And, um, yeah. So it start... I mean, you, you, you, you play enough in that world and it starts to get confusing that you're, maybe you're not doing the right thing. So, uh, and look, it... [laughs] I, I loved my work. I thought it was great. I loved all the people I worked with, some of the best people in the world. Um, but yeah, it came to a point where there was some issues, you know, with OPSEC, not even in my career, but in others, and it kinda trickled down into unit policy, and they shut down everybody's extracurricular. And yeah, they're like, "Devon, you can't arm wrestle anymore." And I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm a current world champion." Like, I-

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:13:28

        Wow

    22. SPSpeaker2:13:28

        ... I am currently the open world champion, and you're telling me I can't do it. So I was like, "Yeah, we're gonna have to come up with some other solution." They're like, "Yeah, okay. Year's leave without pay. Here's your final offer." So [laughs] I took it, and my wife and I were like, "Oh my God." So yeah, so I, w- I went from making money, and I had... And I didn't co- we didn't have money, you know. Uh-

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:13:50

        But you were getting by.

    24. SPSpeaker2:13:51

        Yeah, getting by. Uh, but it meant that on that year, I, like, had to win. It was no longer, like, my hobby. It was like, if I don't win, like, my kids are, like, not... I'm gonna have to sell the house or, like, I'm gonna have to... It was a gamble. Uh, it worked out. Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:14:09

        What was that stress like?

    26. SPSpeaker2:14:11

        Dude, it was [laughs] the worst.

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:14:12

        How old were you at the time?

    28. SPSpeaker2:14:13

        [laughs] It was... Uh, okay, that was 2014, so I'd be 39.

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:14:18

        Oh, wow.

    30. SPSpeaker2:14:18

        Yeah.
15. 2:27:28 – 2:41:02

    War stories into the uncanny: giants, remote regions, and a claimed demonic possession case

    1. JRJoe Rogan2:27:28

       I gotta ask you about this, and this is a silly thing to ask you b- b- because you said Kandahar.

    2. SPSpeaker2:27:32

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan2:27:32

       Have you heard of the legend of-

    4. SPSpeaker2:27:34

       Yes

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:27:35

       ... the Kandahar Giant?

    6. SPSpeaker2:27:35

       Of course.

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:27:36

       Yeah. What did you hear? When did you hear it?

    8. SPSpeaker2:27:39

       Well, I've seen.

    9. JRJoe Rogan2:27:40

       Okay.

    10. SPSpeaker2:27:41

        [laughs] There's some freaks out there, man. There's some freaks. Uh, so yeah, I mean, I've seen the YouTube video. I've, I've heard about it from other people, but legit, legit, okay? Um, hard for me, because I was far away, okay? I was probably about 200 meters away. We were doing a mobility exercise, okay? Mobility, I hate mobility. Okay, mobility was my least favorite op. Mobility, basically you get in a bunch of trucks and you kinda roll out, and you kinda look for a fight, okay? So we were doing, like, a two-week mobility in this, this region, uh, kinda north, north of the Panjshir Way. I don't remember exactly what it was called. It was just surrounded by mountains, this big valley, and we were rolling around and, um, and so there was a village that we were going to check out. And I'm, I'm, like, a gunner, okay? So I don't know everything that's going on. I'm a dude on a machine gun, okay? But I can see everything that's happening, and I kinda know what we're doing. All, but I know that there's a meeting, and what they have is they have these warlords. It doesn't, it's not the same kind of political system or anything that we have in, like, North America. Kinda the baddest dude in the region becomes in charge, okay? So we were meeting with one of the local warlords, and so the town was, like, 500 meters away. They drove out from the town about 500 meters, and we had our, our trucks about 200 meters from the meeting point. Our officer and a couple dudes went forward, and we're looking. This guy, I mean, he was maybe twice as big. He was huge. He was a massive dude. Like-

    11. JRJoe Rogan2:29:36

        How big?

    12. SPSpeaker2:29:37

        I, I, I, I think he was eight feet. I think he was eight foot something, and it's embarrassing. It's, it's like, "Devon, you're crazy," and he's big.

    13. JRJoe Rogan2:29:45

        How, and he was 200 meters away.

    14. SPSpeaker2:29:47

        He was about 200 meters away, but I can see the guys. We've got, we got optics. Um, he was, h- our officer was probably somewhere betw- uh, uh, at the bottom of his chest. Um, great big Afghan dude, big beard, big dude, big dude, and his lackeys around him were normal size. Great big warlord. Um, so they're out there. There's big people. There's big-

    15. JRJoe Rogan2:30:10

        Eight feet is nuts.

    16. SPSpeaker2:30:11

        I have personally seen, um, people who were probably over eight feet.

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:30:16

        What?

    18. SPSpeaker2:30:17

        Yeah. I-

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:30:17

        In Afghanistan?

    20. SPSpeaker2:30:18

        No, no. I saw these guys up north, Northern Canada, Cree. Um, I was up in Oujé-Bougoumou, okay? This Cree village. Uh, I remember walking up. I'm there for arm wrestling. We're having an arm wrestling tournament, and I'm looking up. We're walking up the stairs in this hockey arena, and this dude, I'm like, "That's a really big dude." And by the time I got there, I was about, me, and I'm, like, 6'5", I was about at his nipple. Okay?

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:30:44

        What?

    22. SPSpeaker2:30:44

        Yeah, big, big, big hands, big long hands. Like, out of The Goonies, like, misshapen face. I'm like, "My God." I'm like, "Like, how big are you?" He's, like, just laughed at me, and he's like, "My brothe-," my, he's like, "My dad's 8'11"." He's like, like-

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:31:00

        What?

    24. SPSpeaker2:31:01

        Yeah, big. Big.

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:31:03

        My dad's 8'11".

    26. SPSpeaker2:31:04

        I'm telling you, there's big people.

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:31:06

        [laughs]

    28. SPSpeaker2:31:06

        And, and people don't know about them. Guinness doesn't know about them. They live up in the woods. There's big people out there, and not all of them-

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:31:11

        Who is that guy, Jamie?

    30. SPSpeaker2:31:12

        He's from that region, apparently. I don't know how to say that last, Edouard Beaupre.

Episode duration: 2:42:49