Joe Rogan Experience #2517 - Taylor Sheridan

Joe Rogan 0:00 [upbeat music]

Joe Rogan 0:02 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] What's happening?

Taylor Sheridan 0:14 What's up, buddy?

Joe Rogan 0:14 That's a hell of a fucking belt buckle.

Taylor Sheridan 0:16 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 0:16 What is that? What is that? What's going on there?

Taylor Sheridan 0:18 So this one is, uh, for a horse I have called Maverick Buzz the Tower that won reserve at the Futurity. Uh-

Joe Rogan 0:25 And they give you a belt buckle if you win?

Taylor Sheridan 0:27 A belt buckle and money.

Joe Rogan 0:28 That's a dope belt buckle.

Taylor Sheridan 0:30 Expensive belt buckle.

Joe Rogan 0:31 So guys like you that understand horses, like if you saw someone with one of those, you would know exactly what that is right away.

Taylor Sheridan 0:37 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:38 That-

Taylor Sheridan 0:38 And the year. Depending on the year, I'm, I'm gonna know the horse.

Joe Rogan 0:41 [laughs] Wow.

Taylor Sheridan 0:43 Like you would fighters. It's like you would fighters.

Joe Rogan 0:44 [laughs] I guess. I guess it's probably similar.

Taylor Sheridan 0:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:48 Yeah. But that-

Taylor Sheridan 0:48 Be like, "Oh, that guy won the thing in 2012. He fought so-and-so." And that's the same with me and horses.

Joe Rogan 0:51 It's always so interesting to me how these ... there's these different sort of categories of interests that people have that, y- you know, one person might not know anyth- I don't know anything about horses, but you're like fucking balls deep. You know [laughs] fuck everything about hor- it's crazy.

Taylor Sheridan 1:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06 It's such a, an interesting, like, pool of knowledge, the, the people that are really into horses.

Taylor Sheridan 1:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12 And then when they start explaining, you go, "Oh, this is not as simple as, oh, that's a horse, and that's a horse, too." Like, there's genetic lines, and there's certain tendencies that certain horses will actually pass on to their offspring.

Taylor Sheridan 1:25 Oh, yeah. Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:26 That's crazy stuff.

Taylor Sheridan 1:27 There's a, there's a stallion, and I really like him. I've got a number of horses by this stallion. His, his name's Spooks Gotta Whiz, and, and they're just incredibly balanced, real feely, very, very quick-footed, big stoppers. But they, they see dead people. They see ghosts. So like-

Joe Rogan 1:42 What?

Taylor Sheridan 1:43 ... once every f- three months for no reason, this thing's gonna fucking check out, and I mean check out. [laughs] Just decide, "It's not safe here. We're going back to the barn. You can come with me, or I'm gonna buck your ass off, or I'm gonna flip over." No, he just loses his mind.

Joe Rogan 1:59 Whoa.

Taylor Sheridan 2:00 And you never know when it's gonna happen.

Joe Rogan 2:01 And his children have this as well?

Taylor Sheridan 2:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04 Whoa.

Taylor Sheridan 2:05 Just a little quirk.

Joe Rogan 2:06 And that's-

Taylor Sheridan 2:07 But, but other than that, they're fucking automatic.

Joe Rogan 2:09 That's a big quirk. That's like if you have a Corvette and it decides to drive home. [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:13 Yeah, a little bit. Little bit.

Joe Rogan 2:14 Most of the time you can go to the store.

Taylor Sheridan 2:16 But it's ... We all deal with it, 'cause they're worth it.

Joe Rogan 2:18 I guess, but that, that seems so crazy that the horse see ... Do you really think it sees ghosts?

Taylor Sheridan 2:24 It, he ... I don't know what he sees. Some kind of boogeyman. They're ... A lot of them are deaf. So-

Joe Rogan 2:28 Really?

Taylor Sheridan 2:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:29 Why?

Taylor Sheridan 2:30 So ... Well, there's a, [sighs] there's a, a gene. Typically, if you see a horse with a white face and the white goes above the eyes, typically that horse is deaf.

Joe Rogan 2:40 Wow.

Taylor Sheridan 2:41 And so they can't hear, but they can feel the vibrations. So like that [stomps foot] ... That could, that could set one of those horses off.

Joe Rogan 2:50 Just anything pounding on the ground, that might be something chasing it.

Taylor Sheridan 2:53 Yeah. I mean, they're prey animals.

Joe Rogan 2:54 Right, right, right.

Taylor Sheridan 2:56 At the end of the day. So.

Joe Rogan 2:56 Wow. The deaf thing's crazy.

Taylor Sheridan 2:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:58 I wonder if that has any sort of an advantage, where they could sort of tune out distractions. You know, I would imagine if a horse is at a rodeo-

Taylor Sheridan 3:07 As ... Now, yes, 100%, because, you know, the crowds are screaming and yelling. It's not gonna bother them. Now, if they start stomping their feet ... I was gonna show this one horse of mine, and I'm about to run in the pen, and all these guys are cheering for this Italian rider, and they're all beating on the side of the arena.

Joe Rogan 3:23 Oh.

Taylor Sheridan 3:24 And, and my horse checked the fuck out.

Joe Rogan 3:28 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 3:28 [laughs] He checked the fuck out.

Joe Rogan 3:30 He thought, like, a whole herd of elephants was chasing him.

Taylor Sheridan 3:31 Oh, yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 3:33 Wow. I can imagine how weird that is for the horse.

Taylor Sheridan 3:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:36 Like, it's being told to do something, but its instincts are like, "No."

Taylor Sheridan 3:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:39 "We gotta get the fuck outta here."

Taylor Sheridan 3:40 "Get that work on."

Joe Rogan 3:41 "I can't hear anything."

Taylor Sheridan 3:42 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 3:42 That's nuts.

Taylor Sheridan 3:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:44 The hearing thing ... There's a, a f- a famous pool player. His name is Shane Van Boening. He's, like, one of the greatest pool players of all time, if not the greatest, and he's deaf. And he has hearing aids, and when he plays, he shuts them off. He just goes click, and goes into this world-

Taylor Sheridan 3:58 The zone

Joe Rogan 3:59 ... just of balls and geometry, and just doesn't miss. Just, he's a horrifying person to play.

Taylor Sheridan 4:06 Really?

Joe Rogan 4:06 And because of the fact that he's got that extra sense shut off, like the hearing, he can shut it off. It's not just that. I mean, he's also obsessive. He p- practices 10 hours a day. I mean, he's a all-time wizard. Like, he's won the US Open, which is the hardest tournament to win in all of pool. He's won it five times.

Taylor Sheridan 4:23 The funny-

Joe Rogan 4:23 Which is just nuts. There's only one other guy in, in history, Earl Strickland, that's won it five times.

Taylor Sheridan 4:27 Everybody plays pool, like everybody, a little.

Joe Rogan 4:30 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 4:30 But then the levels to the game, like you start getting a professional pool player-

Joe Rogan 4:36 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 4:36 ... and they're playing a totally different game.

Joe Rogan 4:38 It's a totally different ... At, just watching it, you realize, like, "Oh my God, what am I doing? I'm hitting the ball way too hard. I don't know what I'm doing."

Taylor Sheridan 4:45 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 4:45 "My angles are all fucked up. Like, this guy's playing that with English. I would've just hit it straight." You watch, you watch-

Taylor Sheridan 4:50 And they're doing a spin, a backspin.

Joe Rogan 4:52 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 4:52 It hits over here in the hole.

Joe Rogan 4:52 Oh, yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 4:53 It's just-

Joe Rogan 4:53 It's the control of the ball. It's just ... Like, they're a part of the ... The stick is a part of their body. The stick and the ball, they're all connected in space and time, and they know where that ball's going within millimeters.

Taylor Sheridan 5:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:07 It's, it's nuts to watch. Like some of these guys, they'll, they'll hit a ball, and it'll tra- it's a nine-foot table. It'll travel all the fuck away around the table, so like a 12-foot distance, and it'll go in a two-inch spot.

Taylor Sheridan 5:19 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 5:19 And you just go, "Fuck me."

Taylor Sheridan 5:20 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 5:22 It's cra- and then if you could do that at, and you're deaf, too, like you don't even hear the cheers. You're just still in the zone.

Taylor Sheridan 5:27 Just hyperfocused.

Joe Rogan 5:28 Yeah, just hyperfocused. Autism probably helps, too.

Taylor Sheridan 5:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:31 If you have that.

Taylor Sheridan 5:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:33 You know, a lot of-

Taylor Sheridan 5:33 Little, little-

Joe Rogan 5:34 Oh, yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 5:34 I-

Joe Rogan 5:34 Just a touch of autism

Taylor Sheridan 5:35 ... I got a little, I think.

Joe Rogan 5:36 [laughs] I don't think anybody's good at anything-

Taylor Sheridan 5:39 Got a little

Joe Rogan 5:39 ... anybody who's good at anything is either ADHD or autistic.

Taylor Sheridan 5:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:42 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 5:43 No, they tried to give me medicine for the ADHD.

Joe Rogan 5:45 Did they?

Taylor Sheridan 5:46 Yeah. I'm like, "Fuck no."

Joe Rogan 5:47 How old were you when they tried to give it to you?

Taylor Sheridan 5:50 Oh, when I ... Well, they did give it to me when I was a kid.

Joe Rogan 5:52 Really?

Taylor Sheridan 5:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:53 What'd they give you?

Taylor Sheridan 5:53 And then you're ... Who knows? But whatever, you're lo- lobotomized, right? And then I-

Joe Rogan 5:57 Fuck

Taylor Sheridan 5:58 ... and so I stopped taking it, just 'cause I was ... No, you're just like this. You know, and so my parents were like, "Fuck it, just let him run around. Let him be a nuisance"

Joe Rogan 6:05 My neighbor's kid, they gave it to him when I, when I lived in California. It was such a bummer. He was this wild little kid, and they gave it to him, and all of a sudden he was flat.

Taylor Sheridan 6:14 Yep.

Joe Rogan 6:14 And I was like, "Oh." And the lady was like, "Oh, he's on medication now because he's hyperactive." I'm like, "Oh my God." Uh, not my kid, not my place.

Taylor Sheridan 6:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:24 I'm not saying nothing. I just go to work. You know, I was single back then, and I was like 28 or 29, and I just, I was just so confused how you could do... And then I kept thinking, like if somebody did that to me when I was a kid, fu- for sure I would've been on drugs.

Taylor Sheridan 6:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:37 If my parents knew about those options, they could shut me the fuck up.

Taylor Sheridan 6:41 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 6:41 If I had the wrong parent... My parents wouldn't have done it, but if I had the wrong parents-

Taylor Sheridan 6:44 Yeah

Joe Rogan 6:44 ... 100%, I had all the traits that would've allowed me to get-

Taylor Sheridan 6:48 But it's-

Joe Rogan 6:48 ... on Ritalin or whatever they give you

Taylor Sheridan 6:49 ... it's a fucking superpower. If you understand it-

Joe Rogan 6:51 Exactly

Taylor Sheridan 6:52 ... it's a superpower.

Joe Rogan 6:53 Yeah. If you could find something you love.

Taylor Sheridan 6:55 People, people say, "How in the world can you write a script, that you write all these things?" I'm like, "It's not that hard." Like, once I know what it is, I can sit... You could sit me in an airport around 1,000 people. I won't hear them, and I can sit there for 12 hours straight.

Joe Rogan 7:09 'Cause you love it. Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 7:10 I just get, I just hyper-focus.

Joe Rogan 7:12 But if somebody wants you to pay attention to the history of Pop-Tarts or something-

Taylor Sheridan 7:17 Oh, I can't. I can't

Joe Rogan 7:17 ... like, it's not going in there

Taylor Sheridan 7:18 I can't, physically can't do it.

Joe Rogan 7:19 Yeah. It's not going in there.

Taylor Sheridan 7:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:21 And that's, that's the superpower.

Taylor Sheridan 7:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:22 The superpower is you can find something you love and focus on it, but the way our education system is designed is so ass-backwards. You take kids that are so energetic, and they have so much life, and you just squeeze it out of them. Just sit still, stay put, listen to boring shit, and all day they're just fighting this desire to scream and just run out of the building and go do something fun.

Taylor Sheridan 7:48 Wasn't the, um, like essentially what we call the modern public education system founded by, or really by the Rockefellers-

Joe Rogan 7:56 Yep

Taylor Sheridan 7:57 ... as a, as a means to create workers?

Joe Rogan 7:59 Yep. Yep.

Taylor Sheridan 8:00 Like that's it. You're just-

Joe Rogan 8:00 Uh, compliant workers-

Taylor Sheridan 8:02 Just-

Joe Rogan 8:02 ... and soldiers

Taylor Sheridan 8:03 ... conform. Just conform.

Joe Rogan 8:03 It's one of the reasons why they decided to start school so early for kids is the earlier you can start them, the more you can get them to do whatever you want them to do.

Taylor Sheridan 8:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:11 And the more you can get them to pledge allegiance and get really excited about this, that, or the other thing. Including all the trans stuff that you see in school, all the pride stuff, and teachers are working with preschool kids, and they're talking about sexuality and ge- And you're like, "They're fucking six."

Taylor Sheridan 8:28 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 8:28 Like, they don't know what you're talking... Like, why are you even talking to them about that? Because you can get them early-

Taylor Sheridan 8:33 Yeah

Joe Rogan 8:33 ... and you can program those thoughts into their mind that this is a good cause. And it could be anything. It could be your religion, it could be your political ideology, it could be being a Christian, being a Muslim, whatever. If you get kids young enough, you can talk them into doing almost anything.

Taylor Sheridan 8:50 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 8:50 That's why they have child suicide bombers. They don't try to get guys in their 40s with a family-

Taylor Sheridan 8:55 Yeah

Joe Rogan 8:56 ... to strap a vest on. They try to get kids.

Taylor Sheridan 8:59 Yeah. Yeah. And you know, what, what'll really bake a couple of noodles is if you look at... Because all these things are funded, all these nonprofits and NGOs, they're all f- but where does the money come from? And when you look at where the money comes from, and you realize, oh, wait a minute, and it's been coming for 40, 50 years from these places. Qatar, for example, obviously Russia, China, all these, our enemies.

Joe Rogan 9:24 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 9:24 Donating money to all of these various groups to divide, to just eat away from the inside.

Joe Rogan 9:31 Russia's been doing it since the '70s.

Taylor Sheridan 9:33 Yeah. '60s.

Joe Rogan 9:34 '60s. Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 9:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:35 That, uh, Yuri Bezmenov, I'm sure you've seen that video.

Taylor Sheridan 9:38 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 9:38 Anybody who hasn't, please watch it. It's Yuri Bezmenov, and it's in 1984, and this guy is essentially describing what America is going to look like eventually, and he's dead on. Just dead on.

Taylor Sheridan 9:50 Yep.

Joe Rogan 9:50 Dead on with the communism, the Marxism, the stuff in the universities, just completely poison their mind, push out any ideas of patriotism being a virtue, all the hate for America that you have.

Taylor Sheridan 10:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 10:03 Like, all the division, all of it engineered.

Taylor Sheridan 10:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:06 And it's wild.

Taylor Sheridan 10:08 Just look at who it benefits.

Joe Rogan 10:09 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 10:09 That's it. That's it. It's real simple.

Joe Rogan 10:11 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 10:12 Just look and see who it benefits.

Joe Rogan 10:13 Well, it benefits a lot of people in this country as well, unfortunately. There's a lot of people that really love division, and they can profit off of it, and they can work, work an angle. You know, we're with you. And this is a big part of the problem with the whole idea of nonprofits, 'cause nonprofits, in theory, are awesome. It's a great thing that people are willing to donate their money. Like wealthy people who are doing well say, "You know what? I w- I think my money could be best suited helping out other people." It's beautiful. It's one of the most amazing notions about people, when they can be charitable when they don't have to be. They do it 'cause they want to, and they really wanna help. But then you find out what's really going on, and that the majority of the money is going to overhead and in employees.

Taylor Sheridan 10:58 Well, think about this. If, if I create a nonprofit to go solve... Well, L- LA's a perfect example. We can look at the homeless situation-

Joe Rogan 11:06 Yes

Taylor Sheridan 11:06 ... that they have there, and all of these NGOs that are getting all of this money. And the problem's getting worse. It's not getting better.

Joe Rogan 11:12 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 11:13 It's getting worse. But if I form an NGO, and that's my cause, and I solve the problem, well then what do I, what do I do with my NGO?

Joe Rogan 11:22 Exactly.

Taylor Sheridan 11:23 Now I got no money. Now there's no reason to give me money. So they're, they don't create them to solve problems.

Joe Rogan 11:27 The incentives are totally fucked.

Taylor Sheridan 11:29 They, they exacerbate the problem, make the problem worse, make it longer, make it bigger. "Look how big the problem is. We need more money."

Joe Rogan 11:35 Some guy was doing a breakdown of the people that work in the homeless industry. Industry, I say, in air quotes, in California, 'cause that's really what it is. It's tw- they spent $24 billion on the homeless problem, and no one can account for it. And they, they tried to get an accounting of it. They tried to do an audit of it, and V- Newsom vetoed it. Vetoed it. Like, why would you wanna know? Let's stop-

Taylor Sheridan 11:59 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 11:59 ... let's stop all that nonsense and build this fucking train track to nowhere that's never gonna get built.

Taylor Sheridan 12:04 Right. What, what, they have a mile of it? They have a mile of that train?

Joe Rogan 12:06 It only costs $100 billion. Relax. Like, things take time

Taylor Sheridan 12:10 [laughs] Half a fucking mile.

Joe Rogan 12:11 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 12:11 And they're like, "Well, we're trying to choose the path."

Joe Rogan 12:13 Ah.

Taylor Sheridan 12:13 How about right beside the I-5? How about that?

Joe Rogan 12:16 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 12:16 How about right next to the flat fucking highway?

Joe Rogan 12:18 Ugh. Everything they do sucks.

Taylor Sheridan 12:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:20 How about that stupid fucking road over the, the highway to make sure the mountain lions are safe?

Taylor Sheridan 12:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:25 It's, like, over $100 million, still not done.

Taylor Sheridan 12:28 And they have them ... By the way, that's not a new concept. They have those throughout the West.

Joe Rogan 12:32 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 12:33 And they don't cost shit. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 12:34 They don't cost much money at all. And they, they fix them quick. They do it quick.

Taylor Sheridan 12:38 Yeah, it's just-

Joe Rogan 12:38 Yeah, they're done in a couple of months.

Taylor Sheridan 12:40 Yeah. Pour some cement-

Joe Rogan 12:40 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 12:41 ... put some sod down, plant some fucking grass, and away you go.

Joe Rogan 12:44 Away you go.

Taylor Sheridan 12:45 But they're ... But we're, we're applying logic to a state that doesn't use that.

Joe Rogan 12:49 It's, uh, it is a ... It's, like, it is as goofy as it gets, and then you think it's as goofy as it gets, and then you hear that Portland just ... The, okay, so this is gonna be on the ballot in November. It got enough votes to be on the ballot. And this is some law that's under the guise of stop animal cruelty. Well, who doesn't wanna stop animal, animal cruelty? I certainly wanna stop animal cruelty. Let's stop animal cruelty. So what does it mean? It means no hunting, no fishing, no ranching, no agriculture, no animals that get harmed in any way, no killing chickens for Kentucky Fried Chicken. Nothing. No animals die. And it's-

Taylor Sheridan 13:28 And this is a city ordinance?

Joe Rogan 13:29 ... they're fucking vo- Oregon is voting on this in November. [laughs] No fishing. No fishing. What are you saying? Are you fucking high?

Taylor Sheridan 13:44 And, and no ... So-

Joe Rogan 13:45 No hunting, no ranching. Ranching, you can't ranch. You're gonna kill a cow? What are you, crazy? That's illegal in Oregon.

Taylor Sheridan 13:53 And here's-

Joe Rogan 13:54 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 13:54 That probably sounds like a good idea to one of those people.

Joe Rogan 13:57 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 13:57 And then, but here's my question. All right, so let's do it. Let's just say ... Let's just outlaw ranching. Let's just say fuck it. Well, there's 91 million cattle in the country, so what will we do with them? What do you do?

Joe Rogan 14:11 You just leave them alone and let nature take its course.

Taylor Sheridan 14:14 Yeah, but the, but there's, but they're not ... But there's no na- there's no nature to take its course.

Joe Rogan 14:18 It's, this is not-

Taylor Sheridan 14:20 There's 91 million head of fucking cattle, and I can promise you this, if you outlaw me feeding them and taking care of them, I'm [laughs] not gonna f- then they're, then they're wandering the highway.

Joe Rogan 14:28 Yeah. And then the bulls are out.

Taylor Sheridan 14:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:32 So you're gonna keep the bulls contained? No.

Taylor Sheridan 14:34 No.

Joe Rogan 14:34 So you're gonna ... The bulls are gonna kill people.

Taylor Sheridan 14:36 Yeah. Or, and, and make more cattle, and then we-

Joe Rogan 14:37 Yeah, and make more cattle.

Taylor Sheridan 14:38 Yeah, so now we have 900 million cattle in three decades.

Joe Rogan 14:41 Yeah, and fuck all your fences. Bulls are gonna smash them.

Taylor Sheridan 14:44 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 14:45 Bulls are gonna eat your grass. Well, bulls are gonna, bulls are gonna stomp your dog. Like, what are you talking about? [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 14:51 It's ... I can't. And the, the-

Joe Rogan 14:52 But it's not supposed to be logical. It's all just a vibe, man. It's like-

Taylor Sheridan 14:58 Yeah

Joe Rogan 14:58 ... and it's not even a well-thought-out one. But the problem is you don't have to be well thought out to get on the ballot. You just have to appeal to certain sensibilities, and then all of a sudden people are like, "Oh, that would be good."

Taylor Sheridan 15:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:09 "Let's stop animal cruelty."

Taylor Sheridan 15:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:12 And they're probably on SSRIs anyway. I don't give a fuck what they're doing.

Taylor Sheridan 15:14 It'll, it'll, it'll probably pass.

Joe Rogan 15:16 Nah. Nah, I don't think it'll pass.

Speaker 15:17 According to this New York Times article, it was a guy, one guy-

Joe Rogan 15:21 One guy

Speaker 15:21 ... got 135,000 signatures and got it passed to that level.

Joe Rogan 15:25 I wonder how many of them are homeless people.

Speaker 15:27 Um, he moved to Portland from Denver, from Southern California, where ... I'm trying to figure out where exactly-

Joe Rogan 15:34 What ... Do we have a photo of this dude?

Speaker 15:36 No, I didn't-

Joe Rogan 15:36 I wanna see what this guy looks like. [laughs]

Speaker 15:37 ... show him, but it says he's a-

Taylor Sheridan 15:38 Of course he's from Southern California

Speaker 15:40 ... he's a vegan.

Joe Rogan 15:40 Of course he is. He's a vegan? Oh, that's weird. I would have never guessed.

Speaker 15:44 He's a substitute teacher.

Joe Rogan 15:44 Oh, substitute teacher.

Taylor Sheridan 15:46 [laughs] Keeps getting weirder.

Joe Rogan 15:47 He's a winner.

Speaker 15:47 I forgot where I lost it.

Joe Rogan 15:48 What else?

Speaker 15:49 That's all it was saying.

Joe Rogan 15:50 Uh.

Speaker 15:51 They, they didn't frame him very well.

Joe Rogan 15:53 Well-

Speaker 15:53 Damn it

Joe Rogan 15:54 ... they shouldn't

Speaker 15:55 Oh, well.

Joe Rogan 15:55 It's a crazy idea.

Speaker 15:56 There you go. Mikkelsen.

Joe Rogan 15:58 Yeah.

Speaker 15:58 Substitute teacher, vegan, and petitions organizer.

Joe Rogan 16:01 It's to have a system where we're not killing or hurting animals anymore. I love how he said a system. What are you talking about? What does that mean? What's a system? Are you talking about nature? What are you talking about? Like, they're gonna kill each other, stupid. Like, what, [laughs] what the fuck are you talking about? Is it somehow or another less cruel when the, when a mountain lion gets into a pen of sheep and tears them apart?

Taylor Sheridan 16:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:25 He figured the chances of meeting another gay vegan were better in Portland. [laughs] He's probably right.

Taylor Sheridan 16:34 Probably not wrong.

Joe Rogan 16:34 Yeah, it's a probably a good bet.

Taylor Sheridan 16:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:36 Solid bet.

Taylor Sheridan 16:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:38 Jesus.

Taylor Sheridan 16:38 He was sitting there going, "Midland, Texas, Portland, Oregon, where are my, where is my best chance-

Joe Rogan 16:42 Yeah, you gotta go to Portland, bro

Taylor Sheridan 16:42 ... to go be a vegan?"

Joe Rogan 16:43 Go to Portland-

Taylor Sheridan 16:43 Yeah

Joe Rogan 16:43 ... and take some medication.

Taylor Sheridan 16:44 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 16:45 Just fucking have a good time. There he is.

Taylor Sheridan 16:47 There we go.

Joe Rogan 16:47 Hey, fella.

Taylor Sheridan 16:49 [laughs] Oh, he's already gotten too much attention from us.

Joe Rogan 16:53 Yeah. It's, uh, there's a lot of silly people in the world, and, you know, like we were talking about with young people, if you get young people indoctrinated early enough to think that these silly ideas make sense, which is one of the reasons why I loved that Kevin Costner moment on your show when, uh, he had explained to that vegan lady.

Taylor Sheridan 17:11 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:12 Such a good moment.

Taylor Sheridan 17:13 How cute does an animal-

Joe Rogan 17:14 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 17:14 ... have to be before you care if it fucking lives?

Joe Rogan 17:16 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 17:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:17 And what the actual, like, what life gets killed when you're just talking about farming-

Taylor Sheridan 17:23 Yeah

Joe Rogan 17:23 ... just food.

Taylor Sheridan 17:24 Plowing a field.

Joe Rogan 17:25 Yeah, just plowing a field.

Taylor Sheridan 17:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:26 Or-

Taylor Sheridan 17:27 Or go, or go build a road.

Joe Rogan 17:29 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 17:29 You wanna destroy some fucking organisms, go build a road.

Joe Rogan 17:33 Yeah. And if you're riding on those roads-

Taylor Sheridan 17:35 Yeah

Joe Rogan 17:35 ... you're in that system. And then there's just the bees. Like, the amount of bees that die every year so we can have avocados is bananas.

Taylor Sheridan 17:43 Yeah. Bring them in from Brazil.

Joe Rogan 17:45 [sighs]

Taylor Sheridan 17:46 By the billions.

Joe Rogan 17:47 By the billions.

Taylor Sheridan 17:48 By the bee.

Joe Rogan 17:48 And they die.

Taylor Sheridan 17:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 17:49 Bees, and then on top of the ... So it's avocados and almonds. Those are the two big ones, right?

Taylor Sheridan 17:55 Yeah. A- almonds, you know what's fascinating, and I'm gonna ... We can look it up. Almonds, the amount ... It's something like 19 gallons of water is what you have to give to get one almond.

Joe Rogan 18:13 Is that real?

Taylor Sheridan 18:13 Yeah. Yeah, we can, we can-

Joe Rogan 18:15 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 18:16 Yeah, it's fucking bananas.

Joe Rogan 18:18 [gasps] Oh, my doctor-

Taylor Sheridan 18:18 Yeah

Joe Rogan 18:18 ... told me almonds aren't even good for you.

Taylor Sheridan 18:20 Well, you know, it's-

Joe Rogan 18:22 He said they're okay for you, he said, but, you know, there's-

Taylor Sheridan 18:25 There was a time in the Mediterranean where they were, they were poison. They have strychnine in them, and it's one of the first domesticated plants. And what people realized, whoever, Homo sapiens or Neanderthals or whoever's wandering around, they're like, "The squirrels are eating those poisonous nuts from that tree. Huh. They're okay from this one, not okay from that one."

Joe Rogan 18:46 Ah.

Taylor Sheridan 18:46 So they started cutting down and uprooting all the ones where the squirrels wouldn't eat.

Joe Rogan 18:52 Oh, interesting.

Taylor Sheridan 18:53 Yeah. And so that's, and so the almond originally-

Joe Rogan 18:57 This episode is brought to you by Wild Pastures. Here's the deal, folks. Wild Pastures delivers 100% grass-fed and finished beef, pasture-raised pork and chicken, even wild-caught seafood right to your door. I love their ribeyes, just an excellent cut of meat. I had them last week. They're, it's great stuff. It's high-quality meat from animals that are raised the way nature intended, outdoors on lush green pastures. No cages, no crates, no feedlots. Wild Pastures only works with small family-run regenerative farms here in the USA. So you're supporting American farmers and the land itself because regenerative farming restores soil, improves ecosystems, and protects biodiversity. And what's more, Wild Pastures' nutrient-dense, zero junk, high-quality meat is around 25% to 40% less than you pay for the same quality in store. And right now, you can save even more with 20% off every Wild Pastures box and free shipping for life, plus $15 off your first box at wildpastures.com/rogan. That's wildpastures.com/rogan.

Taylor Sheridan 20:15 Yeah, look at that.

Joe Rogan 20:15 Relatively water-intensive crop. Each nut-

Taylor Sheridan 20:18 1,900 gallons of water per pound

Joe Rogan 20:22 [laughs] That's so crazy.

Taylor Sheridan 20:27 And then-

Joe Rogan 20:27 Oh my God

Taylor Sheridan 20:28 ... here's, here's my new, like, look, I'm a writer, right? So words matter to me, and when we, when we misuse them in our society, it just bothers me, right? So all these things that we're calling milk.

Joe Rogan 20:41 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 20:41 Like almond, almond milk.

Joe Rogan 20:42 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 20:43 And I'm, and I'm just determined to call it almond juice 'cause that's what it fucking is. It's not even almond juice. It's not like we're extracting-

Joe Rogan 20:49 It's almond tea almost.

Taylor Sheridan 20:51 We're, we're taking almonds, pulverizing them, and brining them in water-

Joe Rogan 20:56 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 20:56 ... essentially. Leaching out the flavor of the almond and then adding a bunch of shit to it and sugar and whatnot.

Joe Rogan 21:00 Well, adding a lot of sugar. My friend Duncan was like, "Dude, almond milk is good for you." I go, "You ever look at how much sugar is in there?" And he, we were on the phone, and he goes, "Holy shit." I go, "Yeah, man, that's why it tastes good."

Taylor Sheridan 21:11 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 21:11 But my doctor told me I had oxalates in my diet, in my, my blood test. He said, "Your oxalates are kind of high." He goes, "Uh, are you eating almonds?" And I said, "Yeah. I eat almonds all the time." He's like, "Yeah, cut back." He goes, "That's where it's from."

Taylor Sheridan 21:26 Really?

Joe Rogan 21:26 Yeah. So you find out how much, uh, how much oxalates are in almonds. I just listened to him. And also it's a lot of like, um, [lips smack] a lot of that gluten-free flour stuff.

Taylor Sheridan 21:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:37 If you buy a lot of that stuff, it's like almond flour a lot of the times.

Taylor Sheridan 21:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 21:41 Almonds are a high oxalate food. Eating them can raise oxalate levels that circulate, get filtered by the kidneys, and appear in urine, which may increase kidney stone risk in susceptible people. Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 21:53 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:54 Almonds contain about 296 milligrams of oxalate per 100 grams, roughly four milligrams per nut, putting them in the high oxalate category. Eh. Yeah, he said they're not bad if you just have them every now and then. He goes, "But don't, don't do it on a regular basis."

Taylor Sheridan 22:09 Huh.

Joe Rogan 22:10 Yeah. There's a lot of stuff that has high oxalates that people don't think about it that can really fuck you up. Kale, for instance.

Taylor Sheridan 22:18 Really?

Joe Rogan 22:18 Like, I used to drink kale smoothies all the time until another doctor told me, "You really should cook the kale. Cook it and then filter out whatever the water's in it." And I go, "Really?" I go, "Why?" He goes, "The oxalates." He goes, "You want to cook the oxalates out of them."

Taylor Sheridan 22:32 Really?

Joe Rogan 22:33 Yeah, and that's apparently what causes a lot of kidney stones with some folks that drink a lot of those green smoothies.

Taylor Sheridan 22:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 22:38 Which I used to do every day. I used to take a bunch of kale, throw in a bunch of apples and some ginger and some garlic, and blend it all up and drink at the beginning of the day. I thought I was doing a good thing. And he was like, "You're just b- blasting your system with oxalates." And I was like, "Oh, all right."

Taylor Sheridan 22:54 Yeah, [laughs] I know.

Joe Rogan 22:54 And he was like-

Taylor Sheridan 22:55 Have some fucking eggs, bro. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 22:55 He said, "Have bacon. Have some bacon." I'm like, "Fucking bacon's better for you?" Like, the, my journey of figuring out what to eat was a long one. It was a long one, and thank God I got this podcast because if I hadn't had all, all those conversations with people where I, I realized like, oh, so we're ... Like, and now the food pyramid's completely flipped, which is hilarious.

Taylor Sheridan 23:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:13 But it's like I've had enough conversations where I realized like, oh, all these people don't know what the fuck they're talking about, and they're giving advice. And it's weird. It's weird how much bad advice there is for food and for health and for fucking fill in the blank. Almost everything in our society.

Taylor Sheridan 23:30 Well, our food pyramid was created by Johnson & Johnson.

Joe Rogan 23:32 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 23:32 Didn't it?

Joe Rogan 23:33 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 23:33 Or Kellogg's-

Joe Rogan 23:34 Kellogg's

Taylor Sheridan 23:34 ... which is Johnson & Johnson.

Joe Rogan 23:34 One of those, yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 23:35 It's like, how do we get people to eat our shit in the morning and then again at lunch, and then ... Well, the one thing that we can't control, and they talk about the, the one thing that we do not have is this massive industrialized meat production, because there's no, there's no economical way to do it. They'd do it if they could. Harris Ranch, which you, you've probably seen off I-5 in, uh, in California, is the closest version of that. But what it is is a feed yard, right? Where you get them together and you feed cattle for 90 to 150 days before you go send them off and slaughter them, right? That's the closest thing there is to an industrialized beef industry because It's an, a very inefficient way. It's way better to farm, right? It's more efficient to farm than it is graze cattle. So you only wanna graze cattle somewhere that you can't farm-

Joe Rogan 24:27 Mm

Taylor Sheridan 24:27 ... at the end of the day. You wanna graze cattle are great at taking protein from poor protein sources and metabolizing it, right? So you graze them in real rocky terrain with native grasses that, that you can't farm, can't till it, just can't. Um, and it needs to be eaten by something or weeds will overtake it, right?

Joe Rogan 24:47 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 24:47 'Cause grass is, grass grows better when it's being grazed. Um, and so there's no way to industrialize that or centralize it. The most centralized it is is at the packing house, right, where you've got four packing, major packing houses, um, that control 90-something percent of the beef industry, and that's starting to change. COVID was extremely helpful for the smaller farmer and rancher to sit there and get their product out, right? And find small... They start popping up. People have opened these USDA facilities that, that don't process 800 head of cattle an hour. They maybe do 50 or 50 a day. And now people can go there, 'cause they're a USDA facility, they can buy beef directly from them, buy it from the rancher, right? And you can control where your food's coming from. As opposed to what, what was happening, um, where you'd get a bunch of, if you're gonna go get a burger, [laughs] you're, you're eating some Australian Killer Bull, right-

Joe Rogan 25:46 Right

Taylor Sheridan 25:46 ... for the most part, or some- something from Brazil. And they, or you're not eating something that you wanna eat, right? Um, when you go to a nice steakhouse, the, the steaks there are, they're gonna come from most likely Texas, uh, Iowa, Nebraska, Montana. There's a, there's select areas where people are spending that kind of attention and time to raise that kind of quality of beef, right? Um, and it's being done by smaller ranchers. It may be a big ranch, but it's still operated by relatively few people. You know, 6666 is 300,000 acres, but there's 12 cowboys-

Joe Rogan 26:26 Wow

Taylor Sheridan 26:27 ... for the whole thing.

Joe Rogan 26:27 12 cowboys for 300,000 acres is nuts.

Taylor Sheridan 26:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:31 How do they keep track of everything?

Taylor Sheridan 26:33 I mean, we break it down into pastures, and then you have, uh, and then the pastures fall under... The terminology is this. Let's say, oh, if you're in Guthrie, there's a, there's a camp, and we, we call it South Camp, um, 'cause it's in the south, and it's responsible for 50,000 acres, right? Which is broken down into multiple pastures that are, are between 7 and 10,000 acres. There's one big pasture in that, in that camp that's, like, 14,000 acres. Um, and so then you have North Camp. You have a, what we call, then we have camps around the town, the little town of Guthrie. So you break it down into the responsibility of each cowboy's around somewhere between 35 and 50,000 acres.

Joe Rogan 27:17 [sighs] Wow. That's a hell of a responsibility.

Taylor Sheridan 27:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:23 That's a lot of work, man.

Taylor Sheridan 27:24 A lot of work. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 27:25 What's i- you know what's really interesting about your shows, particularly Yellowstone, it got people, like, really attracted to the idea of brutal hard work as being romantic.

Taylor Sheridan 27:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:36 You know, people, like, really identified with those guys on Yellowstone that were just, like, so dedicated to that ranch, so dedicated to busting their ass and working all day lo- hard fucking work-

Taylor Sheridan 27:48 Yeah

Joe Rogan 27:48 ... and then just hanging out together afterwards. And there's something about that life that's so simplistic and romantic to people that it just really resonated with so many people. They didn't even know that they liked that.

Taylor Sheridan 28:00 Well, it's, it's uniquely American, right?

Joe Rogan 28:03 Mm.

Taylor Sheridan 28:03 And, and the amount of freedom that is... So we move somebody out to South Camp, and we go, "Okay, so here you are. There's your house at South Camp. See you in a week or so." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 28:16 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 28:16 "Go figure shit out." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 28:19 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 28:19 "Keep track of the cattle." And you, you give them a string of horses, and they work their horses, and they, and they ride that property. They know every inch of it, and you don't ever, you don't, we don't, we don't have weekly corporate meetings.

Joe Rogan 28:30 How do they get supplies? Is it, is, like, the house stocked in advance?

Taylor Sheridan 28:33 Yeah, or go to town. You know, town's, which is an endeavor, right? Town's 90 miles away. [laughs] Um, so you go to town once a week, right? And it's an adventure.

Joe Rogan 28:43 Stock up.

Taylor Sheridan 28:44 Stock up, go back.

Joe Rogan 28:45 Wow.

Taylor Sheridan 28:46 Yeah. But it's, it's-

Joe Rogan 28:48 It's a crazy life

Taylor Sheridan 28:49 ... and people incorrect- not every, this isn't true of every cowboy, but there's plenty of cowboys that typically they grow up on that ranch, and that's the life that they know, and that's what they wanna do, right? But they still go off to college. Like, almost every one of my cowboys has a ranch management degree. Like, they went to school-

Joe Rogan 29:08 Wow

Taylor Sheridan 29:09 ... to study.

Joe Rogan 29:10 What's a good school if you wanna be a cowboy?

Taylor Sheridan 29:13 I mean, there's a, quite a few of them. Texas Tech, I mean, that's a phenomenal ranch management program. A bunch of the guys on the 6666 went there. TCU has a ranch management program, a good one. Texas A&M. Um, you know, we have a, we have vets that live on the ranch. Obviously we breed a ton of horses, um, and so our vets, there's, Colorado State's an excellent veterinary school for large animal vets. Obviously Texas A&M is a phenomenal school. Texas Tech as well. Those are-

Joe Rogan 29:40 Dude, how the fuck do you pay attention to everything? You're running a gigantic ranch, and you have about 48 TV shows.

Taylor Sheridan 29:46 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 29:47 How the fuck do you do it? I don't understand it. I, every time a new Taylor Sheridan show pops up, I say to my wife, I go, "How the fuck is he doing this? Like, where does he have this time?"

Taylor Sheridan 29:57 Part of it is, if you think about it, so my crew, my core crew, is the same crew I made Wind River with, like, when we had no money. I remember one time I'm on the top of a mountain with me and my first AD and my DP, uh, Ben Richardson, and there's not a producer. We haven't seen anybody in a week, and I looked at, we're freezing our asses off. It's seven below zero in northern Utah, and I'm like, "Guys, you know, we could just fuck off to Hawaii and nobody would know for a while." [laughs] Like-

Joe Rogan 30:28 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 30:29 We have w- we have their m- we have their money, and they don't know. They don't actually know where we are. They're just trusting that we're gonna make this movie, which we did. Um, and it was incredibly difficult, but that's the same team that went over and did Yellowstone, which is then the same team that went up and did Mayor of Kingstown with me, and then 1883, '23, Lioness, Landman, all of them. And we've promoted from within. I've got PAs that are now first ADs. I've got, uh, camera operators that are now directors. Um, so we've promoted from within so everyone understands the way we do it, and it's so friggin' efficient. We don't ever have... And you know, 'cause you've been in this industry forever, these people will have meetings upon meeting upon meeting. They'll have a, th- they'll have a tone meeting where a whole bunch of people are gonna sit around and try and talk about the tone of the script.

Joe Rogan 31:19 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 31:20 Why didn't you read the fucking thing? You sh- We have to have a meeting about it? How about we don't have a meeting about it? And then they'll have a, they'll have a... And this is also networks. They love this shit, so that they can have a reason for their existence, right?

Joe Rogan 31:33 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 31:33 All these middle management people. And they wanna do a prop show and tell where someone's gonna come show them all the props that we're gonna use.

Joe Rogan 31:41 Really?

Taylor Sheridan 31:41 Well, we don't do that shit, 'cause I'm like, "I need your permission to use which, which Bic lighter I'm gonna use in this fucking scene?"

Joe Rogan 31:48 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 31:48 How about I just make the decision? And how about we use the same Bic lighter in all these fucking shows and I don't ever have to pick a Bic lighter again. How about that? So we just streamlined it and made it to where it's so efficient. Typically, a TV show will start up and they'll prep for 12 weeks before they start filming. We, we do it in four.

Joe Rogan 32:10 Wow. Well, that makes sense. It makes sense that it's streamlined, 'cause I've been on shows when they first start out and it's chaos, and there's a lot of network involvement, and there's a lot of bullshit. But then once it gets going they go, "Oh, you guys know what you're doing."

Taylor Sheridan 32:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:23 "Leave me alone."

Taylor Sheridan 32:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:25 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 32:25 We're there from the beginning now.

Joe Rogan 32:27 That's beautiful.

Taylor Sheridan 32:28 We haven't missed. If you don't miss.

Joe Rogan 32:29 Right. Well, it's like you don't miss. Like, you don't miss with the writing, you don't miss with the storylines. Like, you don't have any duds, man, which is incri- this is incredible. It's an incredible accomplishment to d- have that many fucking shows and all of them be good, and all of them be, you know, like, very addictive. You know, Landman is so addictive. [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 32:48 It's, it's that show, it's about something very serious and then I can just throw shit at it.

Joe Rogan 32:55 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 32:55 Let's just take a bunch of old people to a strip club.

Joe Rogan 32:57 Billy Bob is fucking awesome.

Taylor Sheridan 32:59 He's a genius.

Joe Rogan 32:59 I love that guy.

Taylor Sheridan 33:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:00 He's so good on that show. It's like it was made for him.

Taylor Sheridan 33:03 It was made for him.

Joe Rogan 33:04 I mean, he's done so many things.

Taylor Sheridan 33:05 I went to Billy Bob before I, uh, before I wrote a word, and I told him, I said, "If you don't do this, I'm not gonna do it 'cause I'm not gonna chase my tail." He goes, "Well, what is it?" I said, "I wanna do..." I said, "Basically, I wanna take your character from Bad Santa and put him in West Texas and run an oil company." He goes, "You want the guy from Bad Santa to run an oil company?" I said, "That's what I want." He goes, "That sounds fucking awesome." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 33:27 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 33:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:29 Well, it's, it's educational, too. I mean, a lot of people, like, have no idea how the oil business works, and you, you watch that show, you're like, "Oh, Jesus Christ. What a crazy job."

Taylor Sheridan 33:40 It's an insane job. And, and, and the other thing about it is we're so completely dependent upon petroleum in every single aspect of our lives, so completely dependent upon it. And we can debate how bad it is or isn't and, and, and, or not debate it. The reality is we don't have an alternative. Like, it does not exist. It simply doesn't exist. And we could sit there and say, "Well, wind and this." No. You sit down with any climatologist and any engineer, they're gonna tell you our best hope for a replacement of petroleum fuels is cold fusion, and we're 30, 40 years from it being something that we can rely upon.

Joe Rogan 34:20 Mm.

Taylor Sheridan 34:20 And reduced little nuclear reactors, like itty bitties.

Joe Rogan 34:23 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 34:23 Like the size of this coffee pot.

Joe Rogan 34:25 That's what they're talking about. They're talking about, like, individual reactors that people have in their homes. I'm like, how long does it take before there's disasters? [laughs] Like, that sounds fucking...

Taylor Sheridan 34:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:35 Having a really good nuclear power plant for a city is an awesome idea. Having everyone have their own nuclear power plant sounds fucking crazy.

Taylor Sheridan 34:44 You know-

Joe Rogan 34:44 How many assholes are gonna cut into that thing?

Taylor Sheridan 34:46 Well, people still put fucking metal in microwaves, so-

Joe Rogan 34:49 Right

Taylor Sheridan 34:49 ... I don't think we should be giving-

Joe Rogan 34:50 On purpose. [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 34:51 Yeah. I've done it. I'm like, "Well, how bad can it really be?"

Joe Rogan 34:53 There's people that-

Taylor Sheridan 34:54 Yeah

Joe Rogan 34:54 ... leave their fucking gas on-

Taylor Sheridan 34:55 Yeah

Joe Rogan 34:56 ... so that someone can die in the house.

Taylor Sheridan 34:57 No, we, we, we don't need-

Joe Rogan 34:58 People are nuts.

Taylor Sheridan 34:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:00 People are nuts. You, if you literally have consumer level nuclear power plants, not with these monkeys. Not with, not with the human beings that we are today.

Taylor Sheridan 35:09 No.

Joe Rogan 35:09 Our, our current form.

Taylor Sheridan 35:11 No.

Joe Rogan 35:11 We're not enlightened enough to have-

Taylor Sheridan 35:12 No. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 35:13 ... personal nuclear power plants at our house.

Taylor Sheridan 35:17 No.

Joe Rogan 35:17 Oh, fuck.

Taylor Sheridan 35:18 Yeah. So we're, we're, we're dependent upon it, um, and we'll be.

Joe Rogan 35:21 Well, that's why we're in Iran right now.

Taylor Sheridan 35:23 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:24 And also because of Israel. But, I mean, we're, we're in Iran, I mean, the whole thing about it is the oil. The Strait of Hormuz, it's like, I think it's 40% of the world's oil supply passes through there.

Taylor Sheridan 35:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:36 Christ.

Taylor Sheridan 35:37 No, that's... And, and, and I think also China.

Joe Rogan 35:42 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Sheridan 35:42 It's a big play against, it's a chess piece against China.

Joe Rogan 35:46 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Sheridan 35:47 That's what I think.

Joe Rogan 35:48 Yeah, all of it's fucking terrifying.

Taylor Sheridan 35:50 What, uh... And I'm not saying we should've or we shouldn't have. I'm not commenting politically, but w- what those guys, those SF guys did in Venezuela was fucking gangster.

Joe Rogan 36:05 It's crazy.

Taylor Sheridan 36:06 Whether, I'm not saying they should or shouldn't, I'm just saying.

Joe Rogan 36:08 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 36:09 The team was sent, and then the team... [laughs] I mean, can you imagine? If I wrote it in a movie, people would go, "That's fucking ridiculous, Taylor."

Joe Rogan 36:17 Right. We don't have that tech yet.

Taylor Sheridan 36:18 You're gonna fly a bunch of SF dudes, drop them off on the roof of this high-rise surrounded by the fucking Cuban special forces, and they're gonna kill all of them, and then they're gonna fucking snatch him and his wife, go back to the roof and just fucking fly away? [laughs] That's what they did

Joe Rogan 36:34 Right. And they're gonna do it with sound. They're gonna disable everyone with a sound weapon. Like, what? Like, there was... Do you remember when they first started talking about that Havana syndrome-

Taylor Sheridan 36:43 Yeah

Joe Rogan 36:44 ... and people were dismissing it?

Taylor Sheridan 36:44 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:44 "This is horseshit. This is bullshit."

Taylor Sheridan 36:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:46 Like, no, they're talking about people that are in Havana, that, that they've been targeted. Something zapped them, and-

Taylor Sheridan 36:51 Low level frequencies-

Joe Rogan 36:53 Uh-huh

Taylor Sheridan 36:53 ... that made them nauseous. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:54 Yeah. And I think that is a fraction of whatever they unleashed in Venezuela.

Taylor Sheridan 36:58 Who knows?

Joe Rogan 36:59 The Discombobulator, that's what it's called.

Speaker 37:01 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 37:01 [laughs] A classified secret weapon system President Donald Trump claimed US forces used during the January 3rd operation to capture Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro. He stated that the weapon successfully disabled enemy equipment and air defenses, preventing them from firing back. So it's, it's b- both... It disables the people, and it disables their weapon system. What?

Taylor Sheridan 37:25 [laughs] That's amazing.

Joe Rogan 37:26 What the fuck are we doing? Official silence. When asked for specific technical or operational details about how the device functions, Trump famously told the New York Post, "I'm not allowed to talk about it." Mm. They... He says they pressed buttons. He claimed the defense forces pressed buttons and nothing worked, disabling both Russian and Chinese-made rockets and radar. Wow.

Taylor Sheridan 37:49 Wow.

Joe Rogan 37:49 The weapon affected both mechanical equipment and personnel. He also referred to it a... He also referred to a sonic weapon being used against Maduro's Cuban security detail inside a heavily fortified fortress. Fucking A, man.

Taylor Sheridan 38:04 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 38:05 I would love to see what that looks like. You know, I bet they have video, too, of these guys-

Taylor Sheridan 38:10 Oh, I'm sure.

Joe Rogan 38:10 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 38:11 All wearing GoPros.

Joe Rogan 38:12 I'd love to go into a SCIF. Just show me the video. I won't say nothing.

Taylor Sheridan 38:15 [laughs] Here's watch.

Joe Rogan 38:15 I wanna see what it looks like.

Taylor Sheridan 38:16 Here's a watch.

Joe Rogan 38:16 I just wanna watch. What does it look like when someone gets zapped by sound and b- gets fully disabled? Like, apparently they just fell to the ground in agony. They couldn't move.

Taylor Sheridan 38:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:25 And they just went in and shot everybody.

Taylor Sheridan 38:26 And then some fricking SF snipers are just-

Joe Rogan 38:28 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 38:28 ... fricking on top of that, just-

Joe Rogan 38:30 Crazy

Taylor Sheridan 38:30 ... raining down on them. It's-

Joe Rogan 38:31 Crazy. Like, that guy thought he was safe. Crazy. And there's a famous video of him saying, "Come and get me."

Taylor Sheridan 38:37 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:38 Like, bro.

Taylor Sheridan 38:38 Yeah. [laughs] Be careful. Don't... What bear you poke.

Joe Rogan 38:42 Yeah. Also, it's like we... None of us know what the tip-of-the-spear technology in weapons systems is available right now. We don't know.

Taylor Sheridan 38:51 No.

Joe Rogan 38:51 They don't tell us.

Taylor Sheridan 38:52 No.

Joe Rogan 38:52 They don't tell us. Obviously no one knew this fucking Discombobulator thing existed.

Taylor Sheridan 38:57 No.

Joe Rogan 38:57 This is science fiction.

Taylor Sheridan 38:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:58 Right? If this was 20 years ago, you'd be like, "That's not a real thing."

Taylor Sheridan 39:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:02 But now you're like, "Oh, shit. They used it? It's not, not just a concept? They fucking used it?" What else... What are they, what are they cooking out in the desert in the middle of Nevada? Who knows?

Taylor Sheridan 39:12 Yeah, and think about this. For that to be used, there's something four generations past that-

Joe Rogan 39:17 100%

Taylor Sheridan 39:17 ... that they're playing with now.

Joe Rogan 39:18 Yeah, 100%. You know, this whole, uh, UAP world stuff, like when they start talking about UAPs, all of my bullshit alarms go off, all of them. It's like, I don't believe if you knew things you would tell us, so I don't believe you're telling us the truth. I think they have some special access programs that they've been working on for decades and decades in some super high level shit that involves some sort of novel propulsion system, and they have that stuff flying around in the sky, and I think that's what a lot of people are seeing.

Taylor Sheridan 39:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:56 That's what a lot of people are seeing. That doesn't discount the idea that there's something else out there, 'cause I think there is, but I think there's a giant chunk of the shit that people are seeing that's ours.

Taylor Sheridan 40:06 Yeah. Testing.

Joe Rogan 40:07 Yeah. Testing.

Taylor Sheridan 40:08 If, if-

Joe Rogan 40:08 Doing stuff with it

Taylor Sheridan 40:09 ... if there was an intelligent life form that had stumbled upon our barbaric asses, why would they not go, "Hey, guys. Fire up that fucking missile and take... We found this blue planet, we gotta get rid of this thing"?

Joe Rogan 40:21 Well, I think maybe every intelligent species that's tribal and territorial has to go through an adolescent period of their evolution. And if you look at human history, you know, I was reading about Vlad the Impaler last night. Jesus Christ. And how, how many of the Ottoman Turks that got killed, and his famous methods of putting people on posts-

Taylor Sheridan 40:45 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 40:45 ... and separating them down the line on the road so that as these poor guys are traveling to go and fight him, they just see the enemy stuck on skewers. And in geometric patterns and shit. He would do them in, like, stars and stuff. Just, he was a vicious motherfucker. And he's the, the motivation behind, or the, you know, the inspiration behind Dracula.

Taylor Sheridan 41:04 Yep.

Joe Rogan 41:05 And I was reading about that guy. I'm like, "Fuck, people have always been awful."

Taylor Sheridan 41:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:09 They've always been awful. But they just, like, as time goes on, they get a little less awful.

Taylor Sheridan 41:15 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 41:15 A little less. Like, we're a little less awful now than we were during Nazi Germany. Not totally great.

Taylor Sheridan 41:23 Not collectively.

Joe Rogan 41:24 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 41:24 Certain-

Joe Rogan 41:25 We're still willing to do genocide, some of us are, but it's less, less approved. It's less... M- more people are horrified at it. It's like human beings are getting a little bit better. It's, it's not as quick as we'd like. And I think if I was an alien life form, I would say, "You have to wait this out." It's like if you have a kid, you gotta let the kid fall down and stum- stumble. You gotta let him get hurt. You gotta let-

Taylor Sheridan 41:48 Yep

Joe Rogan 41:48 ... things happen. You gotta let him fuck up and figure it out himself. You gotta figure this out and make it right. You fucked this up. You gotta give him a chance to become better.

Taylor Sheridan 41:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 41:57 I think as a civilization, I would think the same thing would apply. You have to give this civilization time to evolve and adapt and get past where it's at right now, and I don't think that you do that by intervening and, like, grabbing us by the hand and showing us the way. I think what you do is you hang back and make sure that we don't nuke each other, and just sort of pay attention to all the different international ongoings, and just let human beings slowly but surely evolve.

Taylor Sheridan 42:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:28 That's what I would do if I was an intelligent life form observing people.

Taylor Sheridan 42:32 The interesting thing that we're f- As a civilization facing now, and, and it's always happened in some capacity when a society gets wealthy, really wealthy, then people start to question wealth and how can we be more equitable, and, and it comes across like compassion, but it, it really comes down to a debate of what is more valuable to a society. Is self-determination more valuable or is equity more valuable? And by equity, what I mean is everyone gets exactly the same shit. Everyone. So you take them off of we're not in a monetary society anymore. Now you're working for the collective, and you're hearing that word thrown around a lot-

Joe Rogan 43:13 Right

Taylor Sheridan 43:14 ... these days. The problem with working for the collective is, um, who decides who picks up the trash? And who decides who gets to go represent your nation at the Olympics? Who gets to decide who gets to, um ... Is someone gonna let me go make TV shows? Which by the way, I wouldn't do for free. It's too fucking hard.

Joe Rogan 43:36 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 43:36 Um, so now I don't wanna do it. Well, then you gotta go do, do this. Well, I don't wanna do that either, and that's the problem.

Joe Rogan 43:43 And then they force you to do things.

Taylor Sheridan 43:44 Yeah, and so then-

Joe Rogan 43:45 And then how do they do that?

Taylor Sheridan 43:45 And so then-

Joe Rogan 43:46 They do that with guns.

Taylor Sheridan 43:46 Yeah. So then so, so the ... You either have self-determination, or in your attempt to be collective, you have to surrender that, and then you're surrendering it to who? And, and now you have a dictatorship no matter what the fuck you thought you had.

Joe Rogan 44:03 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 44:03 It always comes back to that.

Joe Rogan 44:04 And it's-

Taylor Sheridan 44:04 It always ... You can s- you can look at Marxism and Leninism and what Lenin was talking about, his hopes, whether they were his hopes or not, um, but it, it devolved into, uh, a, an authoritarian regime very, very quickly. And, and, you know, communism, socialism, fascism, uh, Nazism, they're all very, very similar. They're ... The differences are superficial. I think Ayn Rand said that they're just superficial variations between the exact same thing, which is the evil of the collective.

Joe Rogan 44:38 The evil of a collective and human beings' desire to control their people.

Taylor Sheridan 44:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:42 They love to.

Taylor Sheridan 44:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:43 They... and, and anytime you give them a chance where they can feel righteous about controlling people, they jump at it. And they can, they have an opportunity to classify people. There's good people and bad people, and the bad people, you can do whatever you want to them.

Taylor Sheridan 44:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:55 They're the other. And that, that happens with every, every time groups get into power like that and tell you what you can and can't do. And you're seeing that being embraced, shockingly, more and more all over the world. People are embracing more government power and more government control, and it's really crazy. It's really crazy to see.

Taylor Sheridan 45:17 It's unique. I think that, number one, I think in 30 years when they look back, like we are still suffering s- from a society, uh, from COVID, like still. And, and not so much from the disease itself, but from our faith in the institutions around us, whether it's government, whether it's the media, whether it's pharmaceutical companies. Um, and the, the way that it was manipulated to gain power for a political group, and it was effective, and so when something's effective, then people just keep doing the same thing-

Joe Rogan 45:59 Right

Taylor Sheridan 45:59 ... until it's no longer effective, right? Um, we did that in our military with the wins hearts and minds, right? So that was all, that all comes from Japan, right? We're gonna win the hearts and minds of Japanese. Well, the Japanese surrendered. Like, their emperor, who they looked at as a god, he told the people of Japan after we dropped two fricking nuclear bombs on them, "Hey, we are gonna endure the unendurable. We are going to surrender. It's the only way that we can salvage our nation." So they willfully surrendered. And then our government goes, "Look how great this hearts and minds stuff's working." It's not working. It's not working at all. And then they tried it in Vietnam. Didn't work. Tried it everywhere else that we've had a conflict, we've tried it, and it hasn't worked yet because what it was based on was flawed, right? Because they, they chose to be subjugated at that time and, and making that choice kept them an independent nation. So our, our, our government, our ... And it, it's so dangerous what we're seeing. Um, you can like Trump or not like Trump. It doesn't ... Uh, people are gonna like presidents and dislike presidents, but now it defying the rule of law because he happens to be the head of the federal government and openly defying the federal government. The repercussions of that are gonna be, "Okay, fine, you, you can't stand this man. You think he's a terrible president, and you're not gonna follow his laws," but that's the new normal now. So when a president gets in that you do support, then the other side, because we've established this precedent, they're just not gonna follow his laws either.

Joe Rogan 47:39 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 47:39 And now we've eroded the rule of law. And-

Joe Rogan 47:43 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 47:43 ... and then, then what happens?

Joe Rogan 47:45 The slippery slope is very dangerous. It's ... I mean, I was saying that when the ICE raids were going on 'cause I was like, "Okay, I am not in favor of illegal criminals being in this country. However, we're setting a very alarming precedent where you have masked, militarized police with no ID that are running around the cities snatching people up." Like, this, this could set a precedent that could be used by the left if they get into power for something different than this being, than just for ICE. We've already accepted the idea of militarized police on our streets, and that people with seven weeks training, you're just sending them out to snatch up people, and a lot of American citizens are getting caught up in that trap, too, uh, uh, unfortunately, and then they have to get released. Like, that, that could be bad if If the next party gets in. So if the Democrats get in next and they decide, like maybe there's a new vac- a, a new COVID strain happens, some new pandemic happens, whatever the fuck it is-

Taylor Sheridan 48:53 And if you don't get the vaccine, they're gonna arrest you, and then they start the same-

Joe Rogan 48:56 Yes. We saw it in, I think it was Minnesota, or whoever they had the National Guard on the streets, but the, they had people enforcing lockdowns. And so they had-

Taylor Sheridan 49:05 Yeah

Joe Rogan 49:05 ... people walking on the streets with fucking guns, yelling at people to get in your house-

Taylor Sheridan 49:09 Yeah

Joe Rogan 49:09 ... over a cold. Like this, these kind of slippery slopes, you might think, "No, we're just trying to get rid of the bad immigrants." I get it. I'm with you. I agree. However, the way they're doing it, doing it... And I don't, n- I'm not even saying there's another way or a better way. I'm just saying that you wanna get them out all at once, yeah, that's the way to do it. You wanna get them out quick, that's the way to do it because they got them in quick. You're right. They opened the fucking border. They helped people get in. But now that they're in, the, if you're gonna get them out that way, you're setting a weird precedent. You're setting a precedent that could be used in other ways.

Taylor Sheridan 49:46 Yeah, that's... The, the, the challenge is, okay, we're gonna, we need to enforce the law, right?

Joe Rogan 49:54 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 49:54 Or don't have them, right? They're, they've, they've enacted no new laws. These are the same immigration laws that were on the books when Obama was president and-

Joe Rogan 50:01 Right

Taylor Sheridan 50:01 ... Clinton was president. The same-

Joe Rogan 50:02 Right

Taylor Sheridan 50:02 ... the same rules. It's the, it's the methodology. And, and, uh, you, you gotta [laughs] you gotta sit there and weigh the pros and cons about, okay, the pros of trying to eradicate this issue. You can't give it a deadline.

Joe Rogan 50:18 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 50:18 Right? Um, it's slippery.

Joe Rogan 50:21 It is slippery.

Taylor Sheridan 50:22 And, and, and again, it's what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And, and, and these politicians right now who are doing all of us a tremendous disservice in Washington, I feel, our elected officials, um, because they're n- n- they're not thinking beyond this next election.

Joe Rogan 50:40 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 50:40 And maybe they never have.

Joe Rogan 50:41 They never have.

Taylor Sheridan 50:42 Right? But they were better at hiding it, maybe. Um-

Joe Rogan 50:44 I think there was no internet.

Taylor Sheridan 50:46 But well, true.

Joe Rogan 50:47 I think that's what it is. There was no social media.

Taylor Sheridan 50:48 But I think we've reached a point as they, as they, as politicians talk about eliminating the electoral college, they talk about eliminating the filibuster, eliminate packing courts, all these things because their side's not in power, and so we're just gonna take the structure of the government and totally rework it to benefit us temporarily. But then those same s- benefits that you have now will be used against you.

Joe Rogan 51:10 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 51:10 They will 100% be used against you. I think the most important legislation that we can pass right now is term limits. I think, I think 12 years tops in Congress, and I think probably 12 years in the Senate. Two six-year terms in the Senate. Six-

Joe Rogan 51:28 That's more than enough time.

Taylor Sheridan 51:29 Yeah, that's enough.

Joe Rogan 51:30 That's a lot of fucking time.

Taylor Sheridan 51:31 That's enough. We don't-

Joe Rogan 51:32 That's, that's a ton of time

Taylor Sheridan 51:32 ... we don't need any, anyone else. I mean, I don't know how it's become... How the fuck is Nancy Pelosi worth $400 million?

Joe Rogan 51:39 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 51:39 How the fuck? Well, I know how.

Joe Rogan 51:41 Oh.

Taylor Sheridan 51:41 Yeah, she gets in on all these fucking IPOs.

Joe Rogan 51:43 Exactly.

Taylor Sheridan 51:44 Right. She's gonna pass the legislation that allows Visa to go public-

Joe Rogan 51:47 Mm-hmm

Taylor Sheridan 51:48 ... and then she's gonna get a big chunk of it, and then when she's confronted about it, look a reporter dead in the eye and fucking lie to him.

Joe Rogan 51:54 Mm-hmm. And-

Taylor Sheridan 51:54 "I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't do that."

Joe Rogan 51:56 No consequences

Taylor Sheridan 51:56 It's public. We know you did it. We can look at how much stock you own.

Joe Rogan 51:59 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 52:00 You fucking liar.

Joe Rogan 52:00 They all do it.

Taylor Sheridan 52:01 Yes. They get-

Joe Rogan 52:02 People are calling out Ro Khanna on Twitter today.

Taylor Sheridan 52:04 Yeah, they get fucking rich. Everyone's getting rich.

Joe Rogan 52:06 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 52:06 They get paid 175 grand a year and they're all fucking millionaires.

Joe Rogan 52:09 Super millionaires. Yeah, they're all like in... Like, she's intensely wealthy. That's, that's a, that's a h- almost a half a billion dollars. That's nuts. As a public servant, that's nuts.

Taylor Sheridan 52:18 Yeah. It's, it's insanity.

Joe Rogan 52:20 And it's, um, you know, that, that's what we're used to. We're just, we, we just, we know it's bad, and we just accept it. And people are busy, and they have families and mortgages and shit to deal with, and so they complain, then they keep on trucking.

Taylor Sheridan 52:35 Yeah, I mean, I have, as we discussed, I have other jobs. I don't have a, a pile of time to dedicate to... It gets tough for me to talk politics 'cause I don't have hours in my day to sift through what's real and not real on Instagram or social whatever. I'm not on that shit. But, but I can't... It's hard to form an opinion 'cause man, I don't know [laughs] and I don't know where to go to get honest news. I'm, not the news.

Joe Rogan 52:58 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 52:58 I know that. I can't turn on the fucking news 'cause they've fucking been lying to us ev- they, they stopped being imp- I don't know if they were ever impartial. I'll, I, but, but I know, I know that, um, I remember there was a guy, I was a kid, he was running for president. His name was Jack Kemp.

Joe Rogan 53:20 I remember Jack Kemp.

Taylor Sheridan 53:21 And I wanna say it was Dan Rather. It may not have been. It may have been some other newscaster. And there's a debate amongst all these different potential candidates for president. And as he's introducing all of these various politicians, he's saying so-and-so, Harvard graduate and law professor from here, and this p- former senator and this and that and the other, and this person here, and they get to Jack Kemp, and he goes, "Backup quarterback and born again Christian, Jack Kemp." [laughs] And I'm like, "Wow, you just sunk that dude."

Joe Rogan 53:54 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 53:55 Everyone else you gave them what their jobs were and, and talked about their accomplishments and this. You just said he c- didn't start at quarterback, and he's... You called that his religion, dude. And that's the first time I ever remember... I'm like, "I know your opinion. I'm not supposed to know your opinion."

Joe Rogan 54:10 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 54:10 "You're supposed to be an, you're supposed to be giving me news."

Joe Rogan 54:13 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 54:13 "You're supposed to be giving me honest, unbiased information so I can make a decision, and you're making a decision for me, or trying to."

Joe Rogan 54:21 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 54:21 And they've gotten so... As news became entertainment, I mean, CNN's the worst thing that ever happened to news because it's 24 hours, and now all of a sudden there's not 24 hours worth of news all the time, right?

Joe Rogan 54:32 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 54:32 There is during a war, right? You can show us news f- you know, war footage the whole time and talk about the war and why war and why no war. But when there's not, you gotta make some shit up. Or push an opinion, and that's where we've gotten with news now. Now it's, news is piss 'em off and scare the shit out of 'em.

Joe Rogan 54:50 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 54:50 That's how we keep 'em watching.

Joe Rogan 54:52 And it's, that's the business model.

Taylor Sheridan 54:53 It is now.

Joe Rogan 54:54 And it's also piss 'em off and scare the shit out of 'em, but ignore certain things that your sponsors wouldn't like you to talk about.

Taylor Sheridan 55:01 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:02 This is why, you know, Tulsi Gabbard, in, in her final act as, um, Director of National Intelligence, as she's leaving, she, uh, had that, she gave that press conference about Fauci.

Taylor Sheridan 55:13 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:14 And she talked about how he lied in front of Congress and that he absolutely used American tax funds to fund gain-of-function research through EcoHealth Alliance and through the Wuhan lab in Wuhan, China. And, you know, no one's covering it. This episode is brought to you by Visible. How many of you are currently listening to this podcast on your phone? If you are chronically online, like most of us are these days, your wireless network should be too. With Visible, you get unlimited 5G and unlimited hotspot, all powered by Verizon's 5G network. The perks of big wireless for half the cost. Visible isn't just a wireless plan. It's unlimited wireless designed to keep you connected and no contract holding you back. Switch today at visible.com. Plans start at just $25 a month. Or get our premium Visible+ Pro plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code ROGAN. An exclusive offer for podcast listeners.

Taylor Sheridan 56:24 No. And by the way, didn't we all know that already?

Joe Rogan 56:28 Well, we knew it, but my parents didn't. [laughs] You know, people that are just like-

Taylor Sheridan 56:33 I've never-

Joe Rogan 56:34 ... just read the newspapers and watch TV, they don't know

Taylor Sheridan 56:38 I- I've never seen anything as flagrantly obvious as, as COVID coming from the Wuhan lab studying COVID.

Joe Rogan 56:48 Right. [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 56:48 Right? I've never... Uh, and, and you've got fucking news anchors keeping a straight face saying, "It came from the wet market."

Joe Rogan 56:56 Did you ever see Jon Stewart's bit on it-

Taylor Sheridan 56:58 No

Joe Rogan 56:58 ... that he did on The Colbert Show?

Taylor Sheridan 56:59 No.

Joe Rogan 56:59 You never saw it?

Taylor Sheridan 57:00 No.

Joe Rogan 57:00 Oh, we, we need to play it. Let's play it because it's so funny because Colbert tries to, like, stop him from doing it and push back. And Jon, he's a great comic, he just gets up from his chair and gets louder and just plows through it-

Taylor Sheridan 57:13 Really?

Joe Rogan 57:13 ... over, over Colbert's, like, trying to cock-block his bit. He's like, [laughs] it's like, "It's a funny bit," and he's getting in the way. "Oh, I'd like to see... If you have information on that, I'd like to see it." And he just keeps going. He keeps plowing away. It's very funny. And it's in the middle of it, right? He was a... This was a courageous step because he was doing this when calling it out and saying that it came from a lab in Wuhan, China, was somehow or another conflated with r- racism. Remember that?

Taylor Sheridan 57:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:40 Like, if you said it came from Wuhan, China, from a lab, you're racist.

Taylor Sheridan 57:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:44 Like, well, how did you pull that off? Like, how did... [laughs] It's like, no one's saying anything. It's racism. It's like, it's from fucking China, and it seems like EcoHealth Alliance funded it, and it seems like we funded EcoHealth Alliance.

Taylor Sheridan 57:57 Yes.

Joe Rogan 57:57 There's a lot of fucking paperwork.

Taylor Sheridan 57:59 And, and by the way, there's studies on the fucking disease-

Joe Rogan 58:02 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 58:02 ... that they've been doing that are posted on the CDC website. They're posted on the fucking... My favorite was when you catch all this shit about ivermectin.

Joe Rogan 58:10 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 58:10 And in literally, when, when that happened, I went, "I wanna fucking look that up. Look up ivermectin and studies with ivermectin." And a study pops up on the C- on the CDC website while people are telling us to not take that shit, and it, and it talks about the efficacy of ivermectin ag- and i- in antiviral properties, specifically COVID-19.

Joe Rogan 58:32 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 58:32 So it's on the government website that the fucking drug works while they're telling everyone to not take it.

Joe Rogan 58:40 And they're mocking me for taking-

Taylor Sheridan 58:41 Yes

Joe Rogan 58:42 ... a horse dewormer. Watch this. This is great. This is great. Ivermectin. No, you, he stopped 'cause he still wants to put out that establishment position. "I'd like to see any evidence, if you've got any evidence." Yeah. Well, wild times in the news because I think from then on, uh, that sort of sent a shockwave through the majority of the population, where just whatever trust they had in the news just got severely eroded.

Taylor Sheridan 59:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:12 And if we don't have good news, if we don't have trust in the news, then we're kind of adrift. And then you get locked into fucking conspiracy theories and echo chambers online, and you can get trapped in them too, and that's not good either.

Taylor Sheridan 59:25 Yeah. Then, then there's nowhere to go get information.

Joe Rogan 59:29 Has anybody in NBC, CBS, CNN, have any of those people picked up on that Tulsi Gabbard speech about Fauci and had any sort of a reaction to it? I'd like to know that. 'Cause from what I was reading online, no, none of 'em had. But this was as of yesterday. I don't know whether or not that's changed. I don't know if, like, they were preparing an article and they wanted to make sure that they got all their ducks in a row.

Taylor Sheridan 59:57 I would think pretty much any time the head of an institute is begging for a pardon when he hasn't been charged with any crime is, is pretty good indicator you might wanna look and see if there's been a crime [laughs] committed.

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 Was he begging for a pardon? I mean, he got-

Taylor Sheridan 1:00:15 Yeah, Fauci. Fauci was, like, he had, he had attorneys. This is in part of that deal.

Joe Rogan 1:00:20 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Sheridan 1:00:20 He had attorneys reaching out to Biden's camp the last day when he got the pardon.

Joe Rogan 1:00:26 Jeez.

Taylor Sheridan 1:00:26 The very last day.

Joe Rogan 1:00:28 Jeez. [sighs] It's just a, a preemptive pardon is nuts, especially when, when Rand Paul's questioning him and he's t- talking to him about, specifically about what, what defines gain-of-function research, and by all account, by every definition, it's gain-of-function research, and Fauci's still saying-

Taylor Sheridan 1:00:47 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 ... "You do not know what you are talking about."

Taylor Sheridan 1:00:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 "With all due respect."

Taylor Sheridan 1:00:52 Even though, even though he's a doctor.

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:00:54 Rand Paul's-

Joe Rogan 1:00:55 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 1:00:55 ... a fucking doctor. And then they-

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 He's an actual doctor

Taylor Sheridan 1:00:56 ... and then they say-

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Practicing

Taylor Sheridan 1:00:57 ... "Well, you're an eye doctor." Well, that's my specialty, but before I became an eye doctor, I became a general doctor, which means I studied all the same shit that Fauci studied.

Joe Rogan 1:01:05 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:01:05 You gotta go through medical school before you go pick a specialty. So four years of studying the entire body before you specialize in whatever you're gonna specialize in.

Joe Rogan 1:01:15 Well, it's also, then if you read RFK Jr.'s book, The Real Anthony Fauci, you find out he ran this exact same playbook during the AIDS pandemic. It was the-

Taylor Sheridan 1:01:25 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 ... exact same playbook. That's what the Dallas Buyers Club is about. The Dallas Buyers Club, that McConaughey movie-

Taylor Sheridan 1:01:30 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 ... about AIDS, the fucking villain is Anthony Fauci. He's the guy that's stopping them from getting alternative medications. That's the guy that wanted everybody to take AZT. You know why? Because AZT had already been approved. They had already used it as a cancer medication. It was a chemotherapy medication that they stopped using 'cause it was too deadly. It was killing people quicker than cancer was killing them. So the first medication they gave people when they had an immune system that was compromised was a chemotherapy medication that was killing people.

Taylor Sheridan 1:02:00 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:02:00 And they were giving it to people that were asymptomatic. They were giving, giving it to people that tested HIV positive, and then you know about the PCR testing. So the PTR test, Kary Mullis, the guy who invented PCR testing, said publicly about Fauci he does not know what the fuck he's talking about. Uh, you know, I don't think he said fuck, but he does not know what he's talking about, and that it's not supposed to be used to detect a disease in a person's body, and that if you ramp up the cycles long enough, just like they did with COVID, where we got some- by some estimations 80% false positives because of the PCR method, because they were ramping them up so high, and so they cut it back quite significantly, and that reduced the amount of false positives they had. But there's a lot of people that got tested as HIV positive that probably weren't-

Taylor Sheridan 1:02:45 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 ... and they put those fucking people on AZT, and AZT kills you.

Taylor Sheridan 1:02:51 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Yeah, nuts. Most mainstream outlets are treating it as a serious but unproven political bombshell. They're reporting that Gabbard alleges s- what Gabbard alleges, stressing the documents are disputed and under review, and highlighting how polarized the reaction is. Mainstream print, Jerusalem Post, Money Control, Newsweek summarized her accusations, emphasized that COVID's origins remain unresolved, and note that the claims about Fauci sparking COVID or lying under oath are heavily contested, not yet legally validated. Many stories frame this as reigniting a long-running fight over lab leak versus natural origin. Listen, that fight is over, kids. That fight's over. This, if you're say- if you are in the news and you are saying that there's still a long-running controversy as to whether the, it's a lab leak or natural origin, shut your fucking dirty whore mouth, because it's not. There's, the fight's over. It's a fucking lab leak. They say the new documents will i- i- need independent scrutiny from Congress, investigators, and scientists before any firm conclusions can be drawn. Okay. Right-leaning media highlight her file dump as vindication for critics, focus on the coverup narrative, and give prominent space to Republicans like Rand Paul. Why does it... more centrist or mainstream outlets present it as a straighter news tone, often pairing Gabbard's and GOP's quotes with Fauci's past denials and nothing there is so far, no judicial finding of perjury or criminal conduct.

Taylor Sheridan 1:04:30 What I've never understood is how this became a left or right issue-

Joe Rogan 1:04:33 It's so stupid

Taylor Sheridan 1:04:34 ... when, when Fauci, who's a, a career bureaucrat-

Joe Rogan 1:04:40 Right

Taylor Sheridan 1:04:41 ... right, through... I mean, when all this started, there was a Republican president.

Joe Rogan 1:04:44 Yep.

Taylor Sheridan 1:04:45 Right? And then he's, he served that Republican president, he served the Democratic president before that, and before that, and then he served a Republican pr- I mean, he's been there for fucking 50 years.

Joe Rogan 1:04:55 Yeah. He's been there forever.

Taylor Sheridan 1:04:56 This dude. It's not political.

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:04:59 It, it shouldn't be political. There shouldn't be a right left side to this. It's, hey, a career bureaucrat fucking lied to us.

Joe Rogan 1:05:05 He used the exact same language when he was talking about AZT as a medication for HIV that he used for the COVID vaccine. "The reason why it's the only medication is because it is both safe and effective." The guy's a monster.

Taylor Sheridan 1:05:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 It's a lit- like, he's one of those guys, like, throughout history, where you're gonna look back over time and you go, "Holy shit, this one guy's lies, this one guy's aspirations, this one guy's career fucked so many-

Taylor Sheridan 1:05:35 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:05:36 ... people over."

Taylor Sheridan 1:05:37 Yeah. And I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:05:38 Spooky

Taylor Sheridan 1:05:38 ... and I don't understand why Democrats would want to fall on that sword with. There's no reason to align. There's-

Joe Rogan 1:05:44 Because people are stupid, and they just decide that because a Republican's a president and the pr- Rep- anything the Republicans are pushing has to be bad. And that, that stupid fucking division, it's so s- it's so silly. It's so silly. It really is. Because the same people during Trump's presidency were openly saying, "Are you gonna trust a vaccine that's created under Trump?" They were all saying it.

Taylor Sheridan 1:06:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:08 Kamala Harris said it.

Taylor Sheridan 1:06:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 A bunch of, Joy Reid said, they all said it. The-

Taylor Sheridan 1:06:13 And, and then they, then they bet their entire political livelihoods on it.

Joe Rogan 1:06:19 [laughs] We deserve better. We really do, or we don't. Maybe we don't. We fucking think they're good. I, we're so silly. Such a fucking silly group of human beings we are.

Taylor Sheridan 1:06:30 Yeah. That's fucking wild, man.

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 Not all of us, though. You know, I think less of us now. I think, um, it's, it's gonna be way harder to divide people the way they divided everybody in 2020. It'll be way harder now. I think most people are just not buying it, and as long as people wake up to this left versus right nonsense, it's really just a big fucking hustle to keep you fighting with each other.

Taylor Sheridan 1:06:52 Oh, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 That's most of it.

Taylor Sheridan 1:06:53 Oh, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:06:54 Most of it Even the ICE stuff that we were talking about. Hey folks, do you think it's a coincidence that the biggest fucking ICE protests were all going on in the same place where they found all that fraud? Do you think, does it ever occur to you, did it ever occur to you-

Taylor Sheridan 1:07:08 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:07:08 ... that these organized massive protests were all occurring in the same place where that Nick Shirley cat found-

Taylor Sheridan 1:07:16 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:07:16 ... fucking billions of dollars in fraud?

Taylor Sheridan 1:07:18 Yeah. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 Shocker.

Taylor Sheridan 1:07:20 Didn't-

Joe Rogan 1:07:20 Kinda crazy

Taylor Sheridan 1:07:21 ... didn't they pass, didn't California pass a law-

Joe Rogan 1:07:25 A Nick Shirley law [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 1:07:26 ... to prevent that, that-

Joe Rogan 1:07:28 Yes

Taylor Sheridan 1:07:28 ... specifically that guy from fucking poking around in California?

Joe Rogan 1:07:31 Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean, they've even referred to it as the Nick Shirley Law. The, the idea is to keep people from investigating fraud, which is outlandish. That is outrageous. That is a crazy thing to emphasize. And the thing is, well, these people are showing up at daycares and looking in. Right, they shouldn't. You're right, 100%. And v- people, random people from the internet should not be showing up at daycares with cameras. I agree. However, when there's no one in that daycare for years and years and years, and they can prove that fucking millions of dollars are being earned by that daycare and there's no one in there, it gets a little weird.

Taylor Sheridan 1:08:10 Isn't, isn't there a, isn't there a-

Joe Rogan 1:08:12 It's not fully passed into law, not yet. [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 1:08:15 Isn't there a video of that kid, like, walking up to one of these, and these dudes get out and, like, drive off in their fucking Bentleys? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:08:22 I don't know if those are real. There's a bunch of fake videos that were made by people afterwards that were just capitalizing on people wanting to click on something like that, and so they were just engagement farming by pretending. And, like, the guy would show up, and they'd go, "What? What are you talking about? I don't know. I have no idea what..." It was bad acting, and they get in a Rolls-Royce. Like-

Taylor Sheridan 1:08:42 It's just bullshit

Joe Rogan 1:08:42 ... it seemed like bullshit to me. I'm, I mean, I'm sure a bunch of those guys made a bunch of money, and I'm sure there is a lot of fraud. Uh, just, like, they're admitting it. Minnesota's admitting it. They knew it was going on forever, you know? And then how about the fact that there's certain politicians that voted, uh, against this idea? So one of those ladies that was killed, like, there was a lady and her husband that were murdered in Minnesota, and she was one of the few people that voted against providing Medicare for illegals. They were trying to, they were trying to pass some bill involving Medicare and illegals, and she was one of the ones that voted against it, and she was killed. The guy who killed her said that Tim Walz sent him to kill them. Now, I don't know if he's full of shit. He easily could be. He's a fucking crazy person. He's a murderer. He showed up at their house-

Taylor Sheridan 1:09:40 Right

Joe Rogan 1:09:40 ... with a mask on and fucking shot them dead, and shot a couple other people too. It's like he's, you know, obviously he's fucking cracked out, but kinda weird.

Taylor Sheridan 1:09:49 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:09:50 Kinda weird that the lady who wants to vote against this obvious fraud, this money that's being somehow or another funneled around through Medicare. Like, one of the things that Elon said when he was on the podcast is that Medicaid and Medicare fraud is one of the biggest fucking problems, and he was looking into it with DOGE. He goes, "I almost don't want to talk about it, 'cause I don't want to get killed." He goes, "It's that bad." And this was before all this Nick Shirley shit, and now you're seeing it, and you're like, "Oh, now I get it." These hospices that they have, these fake hospices in California, and then these f- all the Somali daycare centers and all the different things. Like, these people are just ma- autism. The autism diagnosises went through the fucking roof, because now they could have these autism centers, so they just diagnose their kids as autistic, and then they're raking in all this money for treatment. It's crazy how much fraud there is.

Taylor Sheridan 1:10:43 Hundreds of billions of dollars.

Joe Rogan 1:10:44 Hundreds of billions of dollars.

Taylor Sheridan 1:10:45 And-

Joe Rogan 1:10:45 And just, what a shocker that that's the place where the big ICE protests broke out. Huh.

Taylor Sheridan 1:10:50 Yeah. People forget that when Obama was president, he made a big public statement about going after government fraud.

Joe Rogan 1:10:58 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:10:58 They were aware of it then. I mean, they've been aware of it for... It's always taken place, but on the scale, and, and he tried, and he caught resistance to the point that he wasn't able to do his version of a DOGE-

Joe Rogan 1:11:11 Right

Taylor Sheridan 1:11:11 ... which was, which was his intention. He gave a big public speech about it, and, and tried to look into it, and he's... Th- if you're stealing hundreds of billions of dollars, hundreds of billions of dollars, what wouldn't you do to protect that?

Joe Rogan 1:11:27 Exactly, and that was Elon's point.

Taylor Sheridan 1:11:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:11:30 And also, that money for sure makes its way into Democratic coffers, and probably Republican too. Any, whoever the fuck is gonna be-

Taylor Sheridan 1:11:37 Whoever's, uh, whoever's enabling the fraud

Joe Rogan 1:11:39 ... yeah. Who's ever gonna, who's ever gonna help out, whoever wants a piece of this pie. It's a juicy ass pie. It's a $100 billion pie. Come get some.

Taylor Sheridan 1:11:47 That'll almost build you a rail system in California.

Joe Rogan 1:11:49 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 1:11:50 You could get a mile of track.

Joe Rogan 1:11:52 Or a second Googan Bridge.

Taylor Sheridan 1:11:54 From the fucking car salesman. Have you had that guy on?

Joe Rogan 1:11:56 [laughs] No. No. He wants to be on.

Taylor Sheridan 1:11:58 Oh, I'm sure.

Joe Rogan 1:11:58 He talks a lot of shit about me. At first, he was saying-

Taylor Sheridan 1:12:00 I'm sure

Joe Rogan 1:12:01 ... "Uh, Joe Rogan's not a fan of me, but I'm a big fan of him." He was, like, saying all this-

Taylor Sheridan 1:12:04 Doesn't he have his own podcast?

Joe Rogan 1:12:05 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:12:06 'Cause that city-

Joe Rogan 1:12:06 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 1:12:06 ... that state is running so well, he-

Joe Rogan 1:12:08 Well, he's-

Taylor Sheridan 1:12:09 ... the governor doesn't need to govern

Joe Rogan 1:12:09 ... got a lot of free time. It's so smooth. If you ask him, he'll tell you. He'll tell you how awesome this state is.

Taylor Sheridan 1:12:14 Oh, he'll give you stats.

Joe Rogan 1:12:15 He, the stats are incredible.

Taylor Sheridan 1:12:15 Statistically, people are moving there in record numbers.

Joe Rogan 1:12:19 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:12:19 No one's-

Joe Rogan 1:12:19 That's not true. It's not true.

Taylor Sheridan 1:12:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:22 It's, um, it's, uh, the, all the stats, the positive stats, they were already going on before he was the governor. It's, it's, California's an awesome place. The fucking weather's perfect. San Francisco has always been an incredible tech hub of geniuses. There's always been a bunch of super wizards up there that are creating some of the m- best technology in the world, and that has nothing to do with him, has zero to do with him and all these problems that their inept government has caused. Because that's the real problem with him as a governor. That's the real problem with Karen Bass as a mayor. It's the real problem with whatever the fuck happened to San Francisco. It's bad government. It's not upholding the rule of the law, not keeping people safe, being empathetic to people that are shooting up on the street over people that are trying to walk their fucking kids to school.

Taylor Sheridan 1:13:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:09 Like, what you're doing is bad for society. It's bad.

Taylor Sheridan 1:13:13 And, and it seems to me That for the most part, for the most part, if you are the mayor of a city, and, and when I was writing Yellowstone, the, the governor of Montana at the time, who was a Democrat, I, I called him and asked him, uh, I said, "Hey, can I just talk to you about what it's like to be a governor? Like what, what did you think it would be, and what did it turn out to be?" And, and what he said was, um, Steve Bullock is his name. Uh, he said, "Well, I thought I was going to, you know, make all these changes and do this and shepherd this, and I learned that I am the CEO of a state, and that my job i- as the CEO of the state is take care of the people who live in the state, the employees of the state, uh, attract business here, attract tourism here, and try to make the state make more money and make lives better. That's my job. Infrastructure and city management and people management and tourism. That's my job." And to a, even more acutely to a mayor, you're really the president of a city. You're the CEO of the city, and your job is keep the lights on, pick up the trash, put out the fires, deal with the sewage, keep it safe. Like that's it. There's no social anything. Secondarily, possibly, but run the schools. Like run the city. And, and you have in a lot of these big urban areas where they're so agenda driven and they're, they're pushing a social agenda, and they're not running the cities. They're not running them at all, and so they're running into the ground. And it's tragic to see 'cause San Francisco, like you said, it's a beautiful city. LA used to be an, an, an, a fucking a place where you could go and make your dreams come true. Right?

Joe Rogan 1:15:02 San Francisco was awesome 10 years ago, just 10 years ago. I, I filmed my special Triggered in the Fillmore in San Francisco in 2016. It was great. No problems. It was not, it wasn't homeless people everywhere. It was normal. It was normal San Francisco. Go to a cool restaurant. People are cool.

Taylor Sheridan 1:15:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:15:22 Always been like a smart city, interesting architecture, always been a great city. I lived there from the time I was seven to 11.

Taylor Sheridan 1:15:28 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:15:29 Yeah. I loved San Francisco. It's unrecognizable now. 10 years.

Taylor Sheridan 1:15:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:34 That's it. 10 years of fucking asinine government, and also, uh, this homeless thing, when you realize that it's an industry, when it-- the homelessness is valuable. Having homeless people on the streets is valuable 'cause you can get more money to deal with this obvious homeless problem. The more obvious the problem is, the more money they're gonna throw on it. They don't have to fix it.

Taylor Sheridan 1:15:58 Well, there's no, there's no intention to fix it.

Joe Rogan 1:16:00 Right. No incentive.

Taylor Sheridan 1:16:01 They're giving, they're giving out free needles. "Here."

Joe Rogan 1:16:03 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:16:04 "Get high here." It's-- And, and I was, I was just somewhere where my first experience seeing the homeless in this magnitude, and the one thing that's evident instantly is they're all so completely strung out on drugs. Like this fentanyl thing is no fucking joke. Like the zombies leaning against every corner of... And, and, and to me, it's cruel, right?

Joe Rogan 1:16:33 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:16:33 Like if, if someone's to that point, you, and you wanna help them, don't give them a fucking iPhone and some more needles. Uh, how about you pick them up off the street, and you take them somewhere and go, "Look, there's a curfew here, and you ain't doing no drugs."

Joe Rogan 1:16:46 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 1:16:46 "We're gonna clean you out." Um, and, and some aren't gonna want that. They're gonna wanna go back on the street and do drugs. Uh, and, and the addiction and the consequences of drugs that are that... I had surgery. They had put me on fentanyl. I had neck surgery, and they put me on fentanyl. There's high, then there's that shit, and that was done by an anesthesiologist. I wasn't self-medicating in a fucking parking lot, right?

Joe Rogan 1:17:10 What'd you have done to your neck?

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:11 Uh, C6-C7. Blew out the-

Joe Rogan 1:17:13 Fusion?

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:14 No, no, no, no, no. The, I had the-

Joe Rogan 1:17:15 Disectomy?

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:16 The disc, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:17 Just cut some of it down?

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:19 It's okay now?

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:20 How long ago did you get that done?

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:23 Was it maybe three years ago?

Joe Rogan 1:17:24 Yeah. I wish I told you.

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:25 Two years, yeah, three years ago.

Joe Rogan 1:17:26 If that ever happens again, don't do that.

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:28 Don't?

Joe Rogan 1:17:29 No.

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:29 Well, it'll happen again.

Joe Rogan 1:17:30 It is. Yeah, I'm sure it will. Um, there's other ways.

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:33 All right.

Joe Rogan 1:17:33 There's way... Yeah. There's PRP can help it.

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:36 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:17:36 Regenenokine helped mine. I had a pretty bad bulging disc in my neck.

Taylor Sheridan 1:17:40 What's Regenenokine?

Joe Rogan 1:17:40 Stem... Regenenokine is, um, they used to have to go to Germany to do it. Uh, I know Peyton Manning went there. Kobe Bryant went there, and Dana White actually flew to Germany to get it done. Um, it is, uh, it's like an advanced form of platelet-rich plasma where they take your blood. They, uh, there's a process to it. Pull it up, Jamie, 'cause I can't remember what the process is. But they spin it in a centrifuge for like 10 hours, and then you come back the next day, and they inject it, and it makes this very potent anti-inflammatory, and they inject it around wherever the injury is to the disc. And, uh, it provides, like within weeks, amazing relief, and for me, it completely cured it.

Taylor Sheridan 1:18:20 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:18:20 I, I, I had a point where my fingers were going numb.

Taylor Sheridan 1:18:22 Yeah, that's what-

Joe Rogan 1:18:23 Uh, the German, um, uh... Go back up. Back to where... Yeah. So German physician, Dr. Peter Welling, uh, the treatment focused on blocking a specific inflammatory protein, interleukin-1. So they take the blood out. Um, they draw your blood, and then the blood is heated to body temperature to trigger the production of a natural anti-inflammatory protein called IL-1RA, and then they spin it in a centrifuge, uh, separating out the protein-rich serum. The serum is then injected directly into the painful joint or tissue. Dude, it was remarkable for me for, uh, knee injuries. I did it a bunch of times. I used to do it at l- they, they moved it... You, you used to have to go to Germany and then Santa Monica. They opened up an office. Uh, it's Lifestyle Medicine. That's what it's called, right? Um, and then, um, that's where I had it done. And you-- It's incredible. Like it, I had it done my entire back. Like there's a picture of me on the, on Instagram with a bunch of these fucking tubes in my... That's me right there.

Taylor Sheridan 1:19:24 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 1:19:24 A bunch of those tubes in my hairy ass back.

Taylor Sheridan 1:19:26 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:19:27 And, uh, it was incredible. I mean, it really fixed so many problems that I had. It's, uh, really great for, specifically for back injuries, knee injuries, stuff like that

Taylor Sheridan 1:19:40 Oh

Joe Rogan 1:19:40 There's a lot of good biological options. There's also decompression is very important. I have a harness that I attach to a pull-up bar, and it straps under my chin, and I just, like, let my weight drop down and decompress my weight on my neck. I do that every day. And then I also have this thing called a Dex 3. Is it Dex 2 or Dex 3? Uh, you, you hang forward. Uh, it's like Teeter makes it, you know that company-

Taylor Sheridan 1:20:04 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:20:04 ... who makes those decompression tables.

Taylor Sheridan 1:20:06 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:20:06 But this one's even better, 'cause you just hinge from the hip. So you're not supporting it at all with your legs, and it's just your back. It just goes like pop, pop, pop. Like, you could feel it.

Taylor Sheridan 1:20:15 I need one of those.

Joe Rogan 1:20:16 I'll show it to you.

Taylor Sheridan 1:20:16 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:20:16 We have one out here. We have two of them out here, actually.

Taylor Sheridan 1:20:19 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:20:19 Right out, yeah, in the gym. It's, they're, uh, they're the shit. I have one at home. I don't, I, I will not not have one. I have to have one. It's so good for just decompressing your back. But you need to decompress the neck, too. Anytime you're doing anything, if you're deadlifting or squat- obviously, you're lifting a lot of heavy weights. If anytime you're lifting weight, you gotta think all that, ugh.

Taylor Sheridan 1:20:38 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:20:38 All that pressure's on your back, all that squashing down, and you gotta do something to stretch it out.

Taylor Sheridan 1:20:43 Yep

Joe Rogan 1:20:44 Stretch it back out. But there's ways to heal it now without taking away the disc. So the problem is, every time they cut away a piece of your disc-

Taylor Sheridan 1:20:51 You got less disc

Joe Rogan 1:20:52 ... you got less disc. Yeah. So the good news is there's some treatments that they're doing now where they're actually injecting some sort of a hydro gel-

Taylor Sheridan 1:21:00 I've heard about this

Joe Rogan 1:21:01 ... yeah, into the disc itself. So I asked Brigham from Ways to Well about that, and they're looking into it, and they're trying to... But apparently, this is not being done, um, widely yet. This is, like, this is just experimental. But they, they think they're going to be able to do that. There's also some places like CPI, uh, Cellular Performance Institute down in Tijuana. They've successfully been injecting stem cells into people's discs, and it causes the disc to regenerate tissue and get thicker and healthier.

Taylor Sheridan 1:21:32 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:21:32 Yeah. Um, Shane Dorian, my friend, he's a pro surfer and, uh, big wave surfer and bow hunter. He, he went down there, and he said it was remarkable. He said within a couple of months, it, like a 30 to 40% increase in range of motion-

Taylor Sheridan 1:21:45 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:21:45 ... decrease in pain. Yeah, you could feel it. It's kind of an annoying process, 'cause once you do it, you can't really do shit for, like, six weeks. Like, once you... I think it's six weeks.

Taylor Sheridan 1:21:54 Well, well, that's, what's the same with the surgery.

Joe Rogan 1:21:56 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:21:56 You're not doing shit for six weeks after that.

Joe Rogan 1:21:57 But you can't lift weights. You could walk. You could walk.

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:00 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:22:00 You know, you... It's so, it's... The whole thing is like let everything take. Like, let it take. Let it heal up. Don't do anything stupid. Don't re-injure it.

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:08 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:22:08 Don't aggravate it. Like, give it a chance to actually do its magic.

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:12 Yeah. I'll look into that, for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:22:15 But any neck injury or back injury is such a motherfucker. Anytime your back goes out, you're like, "Eh." Everything you do is like, "Ah."

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:23 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:22:23 It's so hard to do anything. It's like you realize, like, how nice it is to be healthy when-

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:28 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:22:29 ... you know, whenever you get hurt.

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:30 Yeah. No, back pain, that's, that's what killed my stepfather.

Joe Rogan 1:22:33 Back pain?

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:34 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:35 Did he just get on pills?

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:22:36 Yeah. I know. I have a friend in the family that did that.

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:39 Yeah, he was in... I remember one time we were fishing up in Wyoming, and, and he just, he was like, "I can't do it. My back hurts too bad."

Joe Rogan 1:22:48 Geez

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:48 And he went in and had a surgery, and that made it worse, which is-

Joe Rogan 1:22:52 Yeah. People-

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:53 ... you know, which is a real, real risk when you start messing around with the spine, right?

Joe Rogan 1:22:57 I know.

Taylor Sheridan 1:22:58 Um, and so yeah. And then it was, you know... Those are serious pain. Now we're talking oxy.

Joe Rogan 1:23:05 Yeah, now you're in just-

Taylor Sheridan 1:23:07 And that's, now-

Joe Rogan 1:23:07 ... agony all day long

Taylor Sheridan 1:23:07 ... now you're on the clock.

Joe Rogan 1:23:09 Yeah, and you can only do that shit for so long.

Taylor Sheridan 1:23:11 Yeah. Now you're on the clock.

Joe Rogan 1:23:12 Oxies are fucking terrifying.

Taylor Sheridan 1:23:14 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:23:15 They're so terrifying.

Taylor Sheridan 1:23:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:16 So terrifying how readily they were handing them out, too, forever.

Taylor Sheridan 1:23:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:22 Did you ever see Painkiller, that, the Peter Berg thing that he did for Netflix?

Taylor Sheridan 1:23:25 I, no, I didn't.

Joe Rogan 1:23:26 Fucking great, man. So, Matthew Broderick plays such a great creep. Ugh, he played the Sackler brother, the, the Sackler-

Taylor Sheridan 1:23:34 Oh, really?

Joe Rogan 1:23:34 Yeah, the head of the family that started this whole opiate problem that we have in this country. It's fucking terrifying, 'cause it's all real. And th- those fucking people never even went to jail. Who knows how many people are dead because of them.

Taylor Sheridan 1:23:46 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:23:48 They generated fucking billions and billions of dollars, killed a bunch of people, ruined countless lives. How many lives of people that were connected? Your dad gets hooked on that shit, it ruins your relationship with your, your family. You, you, you wind up being all fucked up because you grew up with a dad who was strung out on pills.

Taylor Sheridan 1:24:04 Yep. No, generation.

Joe Rogan 1:24:07 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:24:07 Generational damage.

Joe Rogan 1:24:08 Oh, God. Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:24:09 Yeah, and these guys put their feet up.

Joe Rogan 1:24:11 Yeah. They go to a fucking-

Taylor Sheridan 1:24:13 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:24:13 ... nice country club and have the lobster.

Taylor Sheridan 1:24:15 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:24:16 Cocksuckers.

Taylor Sheridan 1:24:16 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:24:16 There's so many of them in this world. There's... Like, that's genuinely evil.

Taylor Sheridan 1:24:21 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:24:21 Those are real demons. Those, that's a real demon. Like, people wanna think demons live in hell, and you know, that's, that's kind of may, may or may not be real. Well, no, they're on Earth.

Taylor Sheridan 1:24:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:24:31 There's demons-

Taylor Sheridan 1:24:32 They're, they're right here

Joe Rogan 1:24:32 ... yeah, and they justify it. They figure out a way to justify it, and they're around a bunch of other people who justify it, too, and they can just immediately dismiss any pain or suffering because they got a huge amount of profit from it. Ugh.

Taylor Sheridan 1:24:47 Yeah. Yep. Those are the fuckers.

Joe Rogan 1:24:51 Those are the fuckers. Yeah. They're out there.

Taylor Sheridan 1:24:53 And, and it doesn't take many of them to create, like, real carnage. I mean, think about that. Think about the opiate issue in this, and it's still going. It was the gateway to fentanyl, right?

Joe Rogan 1:25:04 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:25:05 If you think about it.

Joe Rogan 1:25:06 Yeah, it was the gateway to fentanyl, and it was, uh, it was also... It's like they were doing those paint man- pain management centers down in Florida-

Taylor Sheridan 1:25:14 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:25:14 ... where they just, all they prescribed was pills. So you would go in like, "I'm in pain." They're like, "Oh, Taylor, we've got the solution. It's right next door." And you go right next door to their pharmacy.

Taylor Sheridan 1:25:25 Yep

Joe Rogan 1:25:25 And all their pharmacy has, like, they don't have Ben Gay over there.

Taylor Sheridan 1:25:28 No.

Joe Rogan 1:25:28 They don't have toothbrushes.

Taylor Sheridan 1:25:29 Oxy.

Joe Rogan 1:25:29 Yeah, they've got oxy.

Taylor Sheridan 1:25:30 Here you go, buddy.

Joe Rogan 1:25:31 This is the solution.

Taylor Sheridan 1:25:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:25:34 Fucked.

Taylor Sheridan 1:25:34 Yep Yep. That's the real drug trade.

Joe Rogan 1:25:38 Mm-hmm. Yeah, right? Yeah. I mean, the cartel is basically getting the scraps. They're, they're making trillions of dollars off scraps.

Taylor Sheridan 1:25:46 Well, think about this. Did you even know what fentanyl was 15 years ago?

Joe Rogan 1:25:50 No.

Taylor Sheridan 1:25:50 I never heard of it.

Joe Rogan 1:25:51 No. I don't even remember when we first heard about it, but when we first heard about it on a podcast, we were talking about it and we found the amount that's lethal, and they showed it next to a penny.

Taylor Sheridan 1:26:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:26:01 And you're like, "What?"

Taylor Sheridan 1:26:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:26:02 "That can kill you? And people are taking that? And they're mixing that in cocaine? Holy fuck."

Taylor Sheridan 1:26:09 And there have been over zombies on the side of the road.

Joe Rogan 1:26:12 Yeah. Philadelphia's bad, too. There's a bunch of cities that are just real bad with it.

Taylor Sheridan 1:26:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:26:18 And it doesn't have to be that way. And what's interesting is this ibogaine initiative that Rick Perry and Brian Hubbard are pushing in Texas and, uh, that I went to the White House to get Trump to be involved in, and they're trying to make this so that it's, uh, you have a right to use or ri- I, I think they call it right to use or right to try for people that are addicted, and they're trying to make it more readily available and accessible to veterans. That's a thing that could help all these people.

Taylor Sheridan 1:26:46 What is it now?

Joe Rogan 1:26:46 Ibogaine. You don't know what that is?

Taylor Sheridan 1:26:48 Nuh-uh.

Joe Rogan 1:26:48 Ibogaine is a, uh, it comes from the iboga tree in Africa, and it is this very potent psychedelic that has no recreational use at all. It's not fun. Nobody likes it. It's not like you trip, you see zombies and fucking hang out with aliens. Uh-uh. You go into this very dark experience for, like, 24 hours, where it, like, replays your life to you in a very uncomfortable way, and also somehow or another rewires addiction in your brain. And for a large percentage of people, just one dose is good enough to get them off of everything, whatever they're on, whether it's alcohol, gambling, coke, whatever the fuck it is. But for two doses, when they do it twice, it's significantly better. And it doesn't just do that. Rick Perry, who was the Republican former governor of Texas-

Taylor Sheridan 1:27:39 Mm-hmm

Joe Rogan 1:27:39 ... was staunchly anti-drugs. He's said this is his main focus in life now, is to promote this. This is his goal in life. Because he did it, and he had an incredible reaction to it, and he knows so many veterans who have done it. It's incredible for PTSD. Somehow or another it has neuroregenerative properties where he went there and they said... He went to his doctor before, and, you know, doctor did a whole scan of his body, and he said, "Look, you've got a certain amount of age-related brain atrophy. It's like, it's fine, but, you know, it's normal that you're 73 years old or 74 years old." So he goes and does the ibogaine, uh, sees his doctor a short time afterwards and the doctor says, "You- it's 25% less atrophy than when you got the last scan." And he's t- explains to him the whole ibogaine thing. He goes back six months later, it's all gone. He has no brain atrophy anymore, which is bananas. So it's regenerating brain tissue. It's making his brain work better, and it's just-

Taylor Sheridan 1:28:44 [laughs] Well, the pharmaceutical companies aren't gonna let that shit out.

Joe Rogan 1:28:47 Well, they're, they didn't like it. They didn't like that I bypassed them and went straight to Trump and told him about them, but Trump was very open to it. He said, "What are you looking for? Are you looking for FDA approval? Like, let's do it." Like, that's literally what he said, and then a week later, we were at the White House and he was signing it.

Taylor Sheridan 1:29:02 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:29:02 So it's incredible. But if m- so many veterans have had to go over to mo- mostly Mexico, but Costa Rica, there's a bunch of different places that they go where they can have these ibogaine retreats, and these guys have had incredible results. Marcus Luttrell, he had an incredible result from it. He had a real problem drinking. You know, obviously he's the guy-

Taylor Sheridan 1:29:24 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:29:24 ... the lone survivor. The, the movie's based on his experiences over in Afghanistan. So this guy, you know, he's, he's done it. He's gotten over it because of that. Like, there's a t- a f- long... Sean Ryan. Long list of guys who have had this experience and it completely changed them.

Taylor Sheridan 1:29:41 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:29:42 Dakota Meyer did it. So many of these guys did it, and because of those, their stories, 'cause all these veterans, then it, like, kinda opened up the idea to a lot more right-wing people that would maybe be, like, more hesitant to accept something like this. Then on top of it, no recreational use. Like, no one's like, "Boy, I can't wait to do that again."

Taylor Sheridan 1:30:00 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:30:01 Everybody's like, "Holy shit, this sucked. I had diarrhea, I threw up, I felt... I was horrified for fucking 12 hours." It apparently just takes you through every aspect of your life, like, review like a movie. All the times you've ever hurt people, you see it from their perspective. Like, ex- yeah, it's, like, very, it's a very dark experience for a lot of people, especially a lot of people that have fucked up a lot of their life, you know?

Taylor Sheridan 1:30:24 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:30:24 Yeah. But if those people had access to ibogaine, all these homeless people-

Taylor Sheridan 1:30:29 Right

Joe Rogan 1:30:29 ... that you see strung out, if instead of just giving them needles and an iPhone and, like, profiting off of it, if somehow or another these assholes can figure out a way to profit off of these centers where you could bring people in and give them ibogaine retreats, maybe that would be a nice little fucking exit strategy-

Taylor Sheridan 1:30:47 Right

Joe Rogan 1:30:47 ... for all these grifters that have been profiting off of the homeless industrial complex for so long.

Taylor Sheridan 1:30:52 Yeah. No. You know, they're, they're not trying to solve problems.

Joe Rogan 1:30:55 No. No, they're trying to make money. That's what I was saying earlier-

Taylor Sheridan 1:30:58 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:30:58 ... when we were talking about charities. That's the saddest thing that I have come to the realization, that most nonprofits are fucking scams. Like, most of them.

Taylor Sheridan 1:31:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31:08 Most of them. And this guy was, like, reading off, like, the average amount that these people that are in charge of the homeless program in LA are making. It's, it's extraordinary amount of money.

Taylor Sheridan 1:31:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:31:19 It's a great living. They're not doing it because it's, like, some sort of a very charitable thing that they really wanna save the world and help pe- no, they're, they're making tons of money.

Taylor Sheridan 1:31:29 It, the, it, the, they're... For, for, they're performative entrepreneurs, if you think about it. Come up with a problem, then go pitch some version of ... Karen solution to a government-

Joe Rogan 1:31:43 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 1:31:43 ... and take the fucking money and never solve the problem. 'Cause as soon as you solve the problem, and if you do somehow accidentally solve it, then go find another one.

Joe Rogan 1:31:52 Yeah. And I think, um, that's one of the reasons why shows like Yellowstone in particular, that show like people that are proud to work hard and really get like deep satisfaction out of that life, and there's something about that that, that it really like it resonates with people. Like there's a better way than just bullshitting people. There's a better way than fraud and, and nonsense and all this political horseshit that's pumped down your throat every day.

Joe Rogan 1:32:22 No, how about a fucking, just a sleeping bag and the stars? How about that? Just lying there with your horse tied to a tree. Isn't that really what everybody wants? Isn't it, doesn't really everyone want to cook their dinner over a fire and laugh with all their friends? 'Cause that's what they really want. That's, that really sounds good.

Taylor Sheridan 1:32:39 Just something simple.

Joe Rogan 1:32:40 Something real, something that re- that's like there's, it's not that simple, 'cause it's hard to do all that shit, but there's something about it that's pure. It's pure.

Taylor Sheridan 1:32:50 Well, you s-

Joe Rogan 1:32:51 There's no if, ands, or buts

Taylor Sheridan 1:32:52 ... you spend a lot of time outside, right? And, and the entire thing's an endeavor, right? If you go on, you go bow hunting or you know, you're gonna, you're gonna practice, prepare before you go. Then you're gonna hike your ass in, uh, somewhere. You're gonna have to set up a camp. Uh, and all of these are tasks before you've even gone to do the thing you went there to do, which is gonna be another task, but the completion of them is the reward.

Joe Rogan 1:33:16 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:33:16 And the fact that you're doing it yourself, everything done yourself. I think that's... And that's why people are so attracted to the life. That's why I've got, you know, third generation cowboys that went and got a degree in ranch management to come back and make, you know, $3,000 a month and couldn't be happier.

Joe Rogan 1:33:34 It's wild, isn't it? It's really wild when you think about it. It's wild what people actually gravitate towards. 'Cause they say that... Have you ever seen that Werner Herzog, um, documentary, Happy People?

Taylor Sheridan 1:33:45 No.

Joe Rogan 1:33:46 It's called Happy People: Life in the Taiga, and it's all about these trappers that live on the Taiga River in, uh, Siberia. And, uh, all these people do is trap and hunt and fish. They don't have any other way to make a living. That's all they do, and they're so fucking happy. And they're all laughing together and drinking together and hanging out with their dogs, and their dogs are sled dogs. And so they're on, they're on snowmobiles, and the dogs are chasing behind them, and the dogs hunt with them. And these fucking people have like zero mental illness. And when they're talking to them, they're talking in Russian, so y- it's all translated. But what they're talking about, like the way they talk, it's like that this is how you're supposed to live. This is real life. And they're all happy. [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 1:34:31 There's a guy, I'm gonna get his name wrong, it's like Primager, something like that, uh, and he in the '60s-

Joe Rogan 1:34:42 Dick Proenneke.

Taylor Sheridan 1:34:43 Proenneke, that's it.

Joe Rogan 1:34:44 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:34:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34:45 Yeah, the guy who lived in Alaska.

Taylor Sheridan 1:34:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:34:46 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:34:46 Just went up, said, "Fuck it."

Joe Rogan 1:34:49 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:34:50 Went up into the way into the wild and built, by hand, a cabin and lived there and, and documented it. Brought a little Super 8 camera, whatever, filmed the whole thing.

Joe Rogan 1:35:01 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:35:01 And, and filmed himself. I mean, he, he lived for 35 years. He was 80-something years old when he finally was too old to, to get through another winter when he came down, and he just built this cabin and just lived, hunted-

Joe Rogan 1:35:14 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 1:35:14 ... fished, grew potatoes, had to build-

Joe Rogan 1:35:17 There he is.

Taylor Sheridan 1:35:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35:18 Proenneke. Proenneke.

Taylor Sheridan 1:35:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35:20 That's how you say his name. Uh, P-R-O-E-N-N-E-K-E.

Taylor Sheridan 1:35:24 If you haven't, if you haven't watched that documentary, it is fascinating.

Joe Rogan 1:35:27 It's amazing. Yeah. Look at the differ- what is it? I don't know. Oh, they're-

Taylor Sheridan 1:35:30 How about you-

Joe Rogan 1:35:31 Oh, this is they've- Just talking about it. Oh, but why this show's s- s- 2023. No idea. I thought it was... Um, this guy, when he documented all of it, you know, it's so attractive. There's something about the way he's liv- and he's by himself-

Taylor Sheridan 1:35:47 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:35:47 ... which is also wild. Like how do you not get lonely?

Taylor Sheridan 1:35:50 No, there's that.

Joe Rogan 1:35:51 I mean, I'd lose my fucking marbles. I need people.

Taylor Sheridan 1:35:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:35:54 I need to talk to somebody. I don't think I'd be liking that. But-

Taylor Sheridan 1:35:58 No, no, no

Joe Rogan 1:35:58 ... but it's so attractive.

Taylor Sheridan 1:35:59 But the, but the notion of that kind of self-reliance.

Joe Rogan 1:36:01 Yeah. No, there's something about it that's like deeply ingrained in our DNA. It's not just that. It's like a, it's a s- a healthy interaction with the w- the wild world.

Taylor Sheridan 1:36:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:36:16 There he is. Look at that guy. Made all that shit himself. That's what's crazy.

Taylor Sheridan 1:36:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:22 The whole, the whole th- I mean, he made his own tools. He made it all.

Taylor Sheridan 1:36:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36:26 He was... It's really wi- I think he was a, wasn't he, uh, a lumberman or something like that?

Taylor Sheridan 1:36:31 I can't remember if he was.

Joe Rogan 1:36:32 Look at fucking pretty that is.

Taylor Sheridan 1:36:34 Look at that.

Joe Rogan 1:36:34 My God. This is right in front of his house. You just build a house out there. Alaska's amazing, man. I mean, the winters can suck a dick, but the, just the actual being there in the place, and the people are g- they're clearly like extraordinary people. Like when you go, just even hanging out in a bar in Anchorage, like you guys are different. They're like more reliable, [laughs] you know?

Taylor Sheridan 1:37:02 No matter where-

Joe Rogan 1:37:02 They're sturdier people

Taylor Sheridan 1:37:03 ... no matter where you live in Alaska, you're gonna have to be tough.

Joe Rogan 1:37:06 Yeah. You have to be. And they were laughing about some guy who got stomped to death by a moose 'cause he was throwing snowballs at it in town. Like, okay, like y- that's something you guys have to think about.

Taylor Sheridan 1:37:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:37:16 You, you might get stomped to death in front of the ATM machine.

Taylor Sheridan 1:37:19 Yeah. Or maybe, maybe don't throw a fucking snowball at a 1,000 pound animal.

Joe Rogan 1:37:23 [laughs] Yeah. Well, you can catch a, a cow with her calves, and she'll stomp you-

Taylor Sheridan 1:37:27 Oh, yeah

Joe Rogan 1:37:28 ... no matter what. So it's a book. Um, Proenneke says he turned his back on a tedious, on tedious 50-hour work weeks and moved to Alaska to do a thing to completion. He built the cabin when he was 51 and lived there for more than 30 years. Wow Wow. Where is that area, the Twin Lakes in Lake Clark National Park?

Taylor Sheridan 1:37:51 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:37:54 There's another guy that lives up there, that lives, uh, near the Arctic Circle. Um, Vice Guide to Travel did a piece on him years ago. It's the same kinda deal. He lives in a cabin, and, uh, he's been up in that cabin since the 1970s. He didn't, he never saw 9/11. He saw a photograph of it years later. He's just been up there in the woods. All he does is he hunts caribou, and he has them all, like, hanging up, uh, like frozen, 'cause it's frozen outside.

Taylor Sheridan 1:38:22 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:38:22 Like, that's, his outside is his cooler. And while they're there, a grizzly tries to steal his stash, and he has to shoot the grizzly. It's like, it's crazy.

Taylor Sheridan 1:38:31 Really? What's that called?

Joe Rogan 1:38:32 It's called, uh, Vice Guide to Travel, and it's Heinmo's Arctic Adventure-

Taylor Sheridan 1:38:37 Heinmo's

Joe Rogan 1:38:37 ... is the video series. And what's interesting, this is like the early days of Vice, when Vice was really cool. And they get this fucking nerd with glasses, who's probably from, like, Williamsburg, who flies out to Alaska to hang out with this guy. And, uh, the guy... They just had, like, these journalists were, like, hardcore. These young kids were... They knew they were doing something kinda crazy, and they would go to war zones. Like, that's how Tim Pool started out.

Taylor Sheridan 1:39:03 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:39:03 These guys would go to the fucking war zones and get shot at. They had bulletproof vests on and shit, and they'd be doing investigate, like, real investigative reporting. And so this guy did, just really went up there and hung out with this dude in Alaska for, like, a week, and was talking to him, was like, "What's, what's so great about this?" And he's a very intelligent guy. He's not a, a m- the guy who's... This, this guy, Heinmo. See if you can find that. Did you find it?

Speaker 1:39:29 I was looking around. There's a... I mean, they're still posting stuff. They've, there's a, The Last Alaskan. [clears throat] Excuse me. The Last Alaskans.

Joe Rogan 1:39:35 Oh, he's still posting stuff?

Speaker 1:39:36 Yeah, they, they have a YouTube channel.

Joe Rogan 1:39:38 Oh, wow.

Speaker 1:39:39 Heinmo and Edna.

Joe Rogan 1:39:40 Oh. Oh, wow, he looks older now.

Speaker 1:39:43 Yeah, they were just talking about podcasts here a second ago.

Joe Rogan 1:39:45 Oh, interesting. They're talking about podcasts?

Speaker 1:39:48 Our podcast. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:39:49 Oh, because we talked about him?

Speaker 1:39:50 I don't know. I meant just I just saw as your-

Joe Rogan 1:39:52 [laughs]

Speaker 1:39:53 ... your, your picture popped up.

Joe Rogan 1:39:54 Oh, that's it. That's me talking about him, yeah. Uh, see if you can find the Vice Guide to Travel, 'cause that's where I found out about him. So this guy's, he's, like, one of the last people that's allowed to live up there. He has, like, a notice posted on his, um, his cabin because he's grandfathered in. I don't think you could build a cabin up there anymore. Uh, that's not... This is afterwards.

Speaker 1:40:20 15 years ago.

Joe Rogan 1:40:22 Mm, might be it, but I think it's called Heinmo's Arctic Adventure.

Speaker 1:40:28 Uh, maybe.

Joe Rogan 1:40:29 Yeah, Heinmo, Heinmo Korth, Heinmo's Arctic Refuge. That's the article.

Speaker 1:40:35 Yeah, I mean, the Vice website isn't really one of the most well-kept things on the internet these days.

Joe Rogan 1:40:41 Um, oh.

Speaker 1:40:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:40:47 Put in Arctic Adventure.

Speaker 1:40:49 I'm guessing that the article was the first thing, and then they went and followed up to make a video, and that's what this is.

Joe Rogan 1:40:54 Yeah, I don't know if... Yeah, maybe that's it.

Speaker 1:40:56 Yeah, yeah. See, it says it's, presents Heinmo's Arctic Refuge.

Joe Rogan 1:40:59 Right. That's probably it.

Speaker 1:41:00 They could've just changed the name on YouTube also.

Joe Rogan 1:41:02 I think they did, or maybe I remember it wrong. Either way, this guy's premise is that this is really how you should live. This is how people... Yeah, that's the guy. So he's this [laughs] like, nerdy cat, just hanging out. [laughs] He looks so out of place. Yep, this is it. And he's got this, uh, caribou that he shot, and they're, they're hanging frozen, and he just saws off a piece and throws the frozen steaks onto the grill, cooks it over wood, and this is how this guy lives. And that's all he eats. He's just eating caribou and salmon, and he lives up there all year round, man. And it's, uh... I mean, he's just very happy. And that, this is the weird part about it, is how happy people who live like this are. 'Cause I think that's in our brain. That's how we're designed to exist with nature.

Taylor Sheridan 1:42:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:00 We're designed to be hunter-gatherers.

Taylor Sheridan 1:42:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:02 You know, this, we still have the same DNA as people who lived tens of thousands of years ago.

Taylor Sheridan 1:42:07 And it, you know, cities started w- what, maybe 10,000 years ago in some form, right?

Joe Rogan 1:42:13 Yeah, depending on who you ask.

Taylor Sheridan 1:42:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:42:15 You know? I think we're a little wrong with that, too. I think they're starting to change their perspective of when actual civilization emerged because of stuff like, um, Göbekli Tepe in Turkey. They found these immense structures that are 11,800 years old that were buried, that this guy who was, like, a, I think it was a sheepherder in the '90s found it.

Taylor Sheridan 1:42:37 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:42:37 Yeah, he found, like, a stone that was, like, sticking out of the ground weird, and he kicked it with his boots, like, knocking some dirt off, and then he brought in some archeologists, and then they discovered this massive complex, these, like, huge circles of giant stone columns with 3D animals carved in them. And they carbon-dated the ground, and it was intentionally covered up somewhere around 11,000-plus years ago. So they're like-

Taylor Sheridan 1:43:00 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:43:00 Yeah, so like, "What the fuck is this?" Like, they didn't even know, like, what the civilization was. Like, what, why did they build this? What's the purpose of it? They, there's lots, a lot of people that debate whether or not what's depicted on it is a calendar. Is it a marking of an event? Does it show the flood? Like, what, what is this? It's, it's-

Taylor Sheridan 1:43:19 Right

Joe Rogan 1:43:19 ... weird stuff, man. Like, really weird stuff. And I think there's more of that than you'd like to, that makes people comfortable, and archeologists are very hesitant to accept it. But I think-

Taylor Sheridan 1:43:28 Well, that whole, that whole deal, right? Like, your relevance being upon you discovered this thing, and-

Joe Rogan 1:43:33 Mm-hmm. Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 1:43:35 ... you know, when they, when they found the, the Clovis Point and it, it-

Joe Rogan 1:43:38 Mm-hmm

Taylor Sheridan 1:43:38 ... so then we're dating everything off of that, and anyone finding anything else is gonna render that guy's discovery less important.

Joe Rogan 1:43:46 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:43:47 And, you know, there was, at one point, we thought there was this logical evolution of man from Homo erectus into Homo sapien, and now we know that there were at least four Maybe five species of humanoid living at the same time.

Joe Rogan 1:44:00 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Sheridan 1:44:01 [laughs] It's just fucking cra-

Joe Rogan 1:44:02 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 1:44:02 At least five.

Joe Rogan 1:44:03 Not only that, it's, like, really difficult to make a fossil. Most people are gonna die, and their bones are gonna be gone-

Taylor Sheridan 1:44:09 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:44:09 ... within 100 years.

Taylor Sheridan 1:44:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:44:10 You know?

Taylor Sheridan 1:44:10 It's just what y- what we've been able to find, and we're basing an entire science upon-

Joe Rogan 1:44:15 Mm-hmm

Taylor Sheridan 1:44:16 ... incredibly incomplete discoveries.

Joe Rogan 1:44:18 Well, ba- we're basing an entire science on a very limited number that can even possibly exist. Like, I think if you take into account how many dinosaur bones they've found and then how many dinosaurs existed, and for how many hundreds of millions of years dinosaurs existed, and you realize, like, oh, like, most shit doesn't make a fossil. So we don't even know how many different dinosaurs that we've ... I mean, they just discovered a new one recently. There's ... We don't even know how many existed that we never found fossilized.

Taylor Sheridan 1:44:50 Yeah. If you, if they didn't run through some lava pit-

Joe Rogan 1:44:52 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 1:44:52 ... or tar pit or something, how would you know?

Joe Rogan 1:44:54 And every so often, some new form of ancient human pops up.

Taylor Sheridan 1:44:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:44:59 And we're like, "Oh, well, what, what's this one?"

Taylor Sheridan 1:45:02 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:45:02 "What the fuck is this one?" There's weird ones. They're, they're all over the place. There's a p- a fucking ton of them. The Denisovans.

Taylor Sheridan 1:45:08 Yep.

Joe Rogan 1:45:08 There's the, the one in, uh, I believe it was in China, the big-headed people. They're, they're, they're quite a bit larger.

Speaker 1:45:14 These are in Texas.

Taylor Sheridan 1:45:16 Yeah, that's Glen Rose.

Joe Rogan 1:45:16 Dinosaur Valley State Park, wow.

Taylor Sheridan 1:45:19 That's Glen Rose, Texas.

Joe Rogan 1:45:20 That's crazy. How crazy is that? Look at those footprints.

Taylor Sheridan 1:45:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:45:24 That's so nuts. That is so nuts. The dinosaur left those how long ago? 113 million-year-old dinosaur tracks. What the fuck, man? [laughs]

Speaker 1:45:41 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:45:41 And, you know, we're just lucky.

Taylor Sheridan 1:45:42 So what is he, what ... You ... That thing, and how much did it fucking weigh to imprint into that-

Joe Rogan 1:45:47 I know

Taylor Sheridan 1:45:47 ... which is now granite, right? But at the time it's probably some mixture of mud and ash from a volcano that came together.

Joe Rogan 1:45:55 Right, probably.

Taylor Sheridan 1:45:56 Some version of that.

Joe Rogan 1:45:57 Right. I wonder what the animal was. Do they know which, uh, dinosaur it was?

Speaker 1:46:01 There's a picture of one here. I don't know if it's, uh, the ... Well, I'll just guess that's the one they assumed was there.

Joe Rogan 1:46:05 God, those-

Taylor Sheridan 1:46:06 It's got T-rex

Joe Rogan 1:46:06 ... footprints are so dope. That's so wild. Wonder who the first guy that found that was.

Speaker 1:46:14 It says it f- was discovered after a drought, so it would've been underwater.

Joe Rogan 1:46:17 Oh, that's even cooler.

Speaker 1:46:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:46:20 So it was underneath the water the whole time.

Speaker 1:46:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:46:22 And then they're like, "Holy..." The river dried up completely in most locations, allowing for more tracks to be uncovered here in the park. Wow, that's sick. That's the animal?

Speaker 1:46:33 Believed to be. I don't know. Yeah, they wouldn't know for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:46:35 Belonged to two types of dinos, including acrocan- canthosaurus.

Speaker 1:46:42 Saurus. Yeah, I think, I don't think they've found any fossils or anything to be ... for the record.

Joe Rogan 1:46:48 That's even crazier, right?

Speaker 1:46:50 Just footprints.

Joe Rogan 1:46:50 All you find is the feet. Think about how many died there. Think about how many just got eaten by other animals and shit out and ... I mean, most-

Taylor Sheridan 1:46:59 Wow

Joe Rogan 1:46:59 ... stuff that lives, I mean, you know as well as anybody, you very rarely find skeletons in the woods.

Taylor Sheridan 1:47:07 No, the mice are gonna eat them.

Joe Rogan 1:47:08 Yeah. Something's gonna eat-

Taylor Sheridan 1:47:10 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:47:10 ... most of what you find in the woods. Within a couple of years-

Taylor Sheridan 1:47:13 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:47:13 ... everything's gone. But, like, when was the last time ... Like, if you're a hunter, g- good luck finding a dead mountain lion.

Taylor Sheridan 1:47:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:20 They must die. They must die. I don't know anybody who's found a dead one.

Taylor Sheridan 1:47:23 Yeah. I've never found one. I've never seen one.

Joe Rogan 1:47:25 There's thousands of them. They die.

Taylor Sheridan 1:47:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:27 Where are they?

Taylor Sheridan 1:47:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:28 Fucking nature takes care of everything.

Taylor Sheridan 1:47:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:30 And that's what would happen to most fossils.

Taylor Sheridan 1:47:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:33 That's why most fossils don't happen.

Taylor Sheridan 1:47:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:35 I mean, when people die, they don't get fossilized.

Speaker 1:47:37 This picture says, uh, 1908, a local schoolboy found some of these.

Joe Rogan 1:47:40 Wow. Look at the size of those next to that dude. That's crazy.

Speaker 1:47:44 Imagine you ran home and tried to tell your parents that-

Joe Rogan 1:47:46 [laughs]

Speaker 1:47:46 ... you found some dinosaur-

Joe Rogan 1:47:47 They wouldn't even know what dinosaurs really were, I bet, back then. How would they have known? Well, there's a lot of people today that don't even think dinosaurs are real, which is hilarious.

Taylor Sheridan 1:47:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:47:55 There's so many, so many knuckleheads online. But, I mean, we don't, we, we have a very s- limited amount of information that we're basing our, the entire history of Earth and planet.

Speaker 1:48:06 I just ... What do you describe that as, a 1910 three-toed-

Joe Rogan 1:48:11 Right

Speaker 1:48:11 ... giant th- uh, lizard? I don't even know what you'd say-

Joe Rogan 1:48:15 I don't

Speaker 1:48:15 ... or even try to describe it.

Joe Rogan 1:48:15 How would you even be sure that that was a footprint?

Speaker 1:48:17 Come, come look at this. And then you gotta go tell everybody else in the town to come follow you out there to find it.

Joe Rogan 1:48:22 Right. In 1910, did they even have drawings of dinosaurs?

Speaker 1:48:25 I-

Taylor Sheridan 1:48:25 Well, they would, I would think they would've found some of the bones.

Joe Rogan 1:48:28 I'm sure. I think we figured that out, right?

Speaker 1:48:31 It's, it's, it says-

Joe Rogan 1:48:31 I think we talked about that. Didn't they first start finding them in the 1800s? Isn't that what it was? But yeah, it's not ... I mean, if you think about how many different things died and just were absorbed by the earth, just g- eaten, shit out, swallowed up, just destroyed by time and erosion, and never became fossils. We're, we're basing, uh, the entire history of the planet on a limited amount of information, and that information, it never gets younger. It always gets older. The more stuff they found-

Taylor Sheridan 1:49:01 Yeah

Joe Rogan 1:49:01 ... like, they found a modern version of human beings that pushes the timeline of humans back another 3 or 400,000 years, and that keeps happening.

Taylor Sheridan 1:49:12 Well, they, they f- they thought that people crossed the Bering Land Bridge-

Joe Rogan 1:49:16 Mm-hmm

Taylor Sheridan 1:49:16 ... what, 12,000, 14,000 years ago, and now they've pushed that back 10,000 years.

Joe Rogan 1:49:21 Yeah, they found the, those footprints in White Sands, New Mexico, and those are 22,000 years old.

Speaker 1:49:26 If it took a giant flood to come wash away layers of sediment-

Joe Rogan 1:49:30 Oh

Speaker 1:49:31 ... that then revealed-

Joe Rogan 1:49:32 Wow

Speaker 1:49:32 ... that, that's why it's so muddy around it, I guess.

Joe Rogan 1:49:34 Wow.

Speaker 1:49:35 And then they started digging.

Joe Rogan 1:49:37 That's fucking cool.

Taylor Sheridan 1:49:39 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:49:40 That is so cool. And this is in 1952 they did that?

Speaker 1:49:44 No, no, no, 1908.

Joe Rogan 1:49:46 908?

Speaker 1:49:46 The pictures are from 1952 or something like that.

Joe Rogan 1:49:48 Oh, okay.

Speaker 1:49:49 So they must have just kept ... Maybe it flooded again 50 years later.

Joe Rogan 1:49:52 Mm.

Speaker 1:49:52 Floods do happen here fast.

Joe Rogan 1:49:54 When did they first figure out dinosaurs? Like, what was the first year a dinosaur bone was discovered? On your ranch, do you find, like, a lot of, like, arrowheads and, like, Native American stuff?

Taylor Sheridan 1:50:09 The one I grew up on, everywhere.

Joe Rogan 1:50:11 Yeah?

Taylor Sheridan 1:50:12 Every time it had rained, you'd find these points.

Joe Rogan 1:50:15 That shit enthralls me. It's so fascinating. You pick up some arrow... I found one in Nevada while I was on a mule deer hunt. I was in the high desert. We found this little, tiny thing. I looked down, I go, "Oh my God, it's a fucking arrowhead." And you just think, some dude, who knows how many hundreds of years ago, shot that-

Taylor Sheridan 1:50:34 Thousands

Joe Rogan 1:50:34 ... out a deer. Maybe.

Taylor Sheridan 1:50:35 Thousands.

Joe Rogan 1:50:36 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:50:36 We found a bunch and, and my mother took them to Fort Worth to the museum, and they dated them. And some of them... And they, they could look at them and th- they'd know various styles, right? And they go, "Oh, this was made by... This is 2,200 years old. This is-"

Joe Rogan 1:50:49 [exhales]

Taylor Sheridan 1:50:49 "... 4,000 years old. This is when they started doing this."

Joe Rogan 1:50:52 We have one here. I got one here somewhere. It's a big one, too.

Speaker 1:50:58 1677 was when the first scientifically recorded dinosaur bone was described. Although it says they've been digging, people have been digging them up for thousands of years, but-

Joe Rogan 1:51:07 They didn't know what the fuck it was

Speaker 1:51:08 ... this one just says he even thought it belonged to a giant human.

Joe Rogan 1:51:11 [laughs]

Speaker 1:51:13 And then the-

Joe Rogan 1:51:13 This is one from here

Taylor Sheridan 1:51:14 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:51:15 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:51:15 Look at that.

Joe Rogan 1:51:16 Yeah, a friend of mine got that off of his ranch. Uh, Remy Warren told me that's probably one they used for fishing, 'cause it was so big.

Taylor Sheridan 1:51:24 Interesting.

Joe Rogan 1:51:25 Yeah, I thought so, too. I was like, "That's interesting." 'Cause I guess when you're dealing with old bows that didn't have a whole lot of power, they... You really wouldn't want a big, wide cut, 'cause you wouldn't get enough penetration to get through the ribcage, unless you were really close.

Taylor Sheridan 1:51:39 So this would be more on a spear?

Joe Rogan 1:51:40 No, it would be on a arrow. It would just be something that you shot at a fish, 'cause it's easier to penetrate than, like, say, a buffalo.

Taylor Sheridan 1:51:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:51:48 Where they would use a smaller head. They're just trying to get penetration.

Taylor Sheridan 1:51:53 That's fascinating.

Joe Rogan 1:51:54 Ah, it's some- just an amazing thing. You're finding just this piece of ancient history, where people had no internet, no books, no nothing. Just flint knapping and using tendons-

Taylor Sheridan 1:52:07 Sat around and-

Joe Rogan 1:52:07 ... and shit. Yeah. And then trying to practice with those bows, and figuring out how to do it while you're on horseback, too. [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 1:52:19 That's-

Joe Rogan 1:52:19 It's crazy

Taylor Sheridan 1:52:19 ... that's wild.

Joe Rogan 1:52:21 So where you grew up, the, on the ranch you grew up, you'd find them all the time?

Taylor Sheridan 1:52:24 All the time.

Joe Rogan 1:52:25 What was the oldest shit you found?

Taylor Sheridan 1:52:27 Uh, man, I, I, I can't remember. But, but I remember it being thousands of years old. A few thousand years old. But we had, we had a... Like, my mother had this wicker basket that was, like, this big, and, and it was full.

Joe Rogan 1:52:44 Of arrowheads.

Taylor Sheridan 1:52:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:52:46 Wow.

Taylor Sheridan 1:52:47 You'd find them and just toss them in there.

Joe Rogan 1:52:48 That's crazy.

Taylor Sheridan 1:52:49 Yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:52:50 Just makes you think, like, how long did people live on that land? How many hundreds, thousands of years did people live on that land?

Taylor Sheridan 1:52:59 Yeah. Yeah. And, and, or pass through, or have battles or who fucking knows.

Joe Rogan 1:53:06 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:53:07 Or, or, or when you find them like we found them, I mean, every single time it rained, you'd... There was this stock tank behind our house, and you could... Maybe it's half a mile up to the stock tank. We'd walk that road and you'd, you could find four or five. So was that a trading depot? Was that some place where people went to trade? And then I always think, like, how do you lose that many? [laughs]

Joe Rogan 1:53:31 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 1:53:32 As hard as they must be to make-

Joe Rogan 1:53:34 Right

Taylor Sheridan 1:53:34 ... you'd, you'd think once you've shot that arrow, you're gonna go look for the arrow.

Joe Rogan 1:53:37 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:53:37 'Cause you spent hours making this, this tip.

Joe Rogan 1:53:40 They must have shot so many for so long. They mu- I mean, they were probably shooting them every day. They probably had somebody back at camp making them every day.

Taylor Sheridan 1:53:49 Yeah, there's probably some guy that that's his skill.

Joe Rogan 1:53:51 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:53:51 Maybe the, maybe when people got older, they couldn't, couldn't hunt, couldn't run.

Joe Rogan 1:53:56 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 1:53:56 You know.

Joe Rogan 1:53:57 Maybe.

Taylor Sheridan 1:53:57 They sat back and-

Joe Rogan 1:53:58 Right. Yeah, and that guy makes the arrows, and maybe somebody else makes the bows, and this guy's going out and shooting the deer and bringing them back. When you're doing a show like 1823, how much research did you have to do to try to get that right? 'Cause that was, in my opinion, o- o- one of the best theatrical things that, uh, that I ever watched, movie or television show, that I, I feel like nailed what it must have been like to try to travel across the country, to be a civilized person living in the city, and try to make your way across the country, and just experience the wild shit those people saw.

Taylor Sheridan 1:54:35 Well, there's a few things. So a lot of research. But interestingly, I had, uh... My family had come, one side of my family, had come from Kentucky to Texas in the 1840s. And whatever great-great-grandmother journaled.

Joe Rogan 1:54:53 Wow.

Taylor Sheridan 1:54:53 So I had the journal. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:54:55 Holy shit

Taylor Sheridan 1:54:57 ... and, uh, and then I started finding other journals. There wasn't... You know, some were published. And, and reading about just [laughs] how fucking dangerous it was. Y- y- if you think about it, um, rivers were the most terrifying thing. Crossing rivers. 'Cause no one swam. No one could swim.

Joe Rogan 1:55:18 [exhales]

Taylor Sheridan 1:55:19 And most of the, most of the people who came into either the Port of New Orleans or Galveston, they were European. They were German, a lot of Germans. There were a lot of, um, Central Europeans that came, uh, and, and they were promised free land, right? The, there would be travel agencies that they would arrange the entire trip with before they've even left Germany or Croatia or wherever they were. And, uh, and so by the time that they landed in Galveston, they would meet up with their group, and the group would... You know, they'd have chipped in all this amount of money, and they've got guides, and they would've already arranged for mules or horses and, and wagons. And, uh, and off they go. And-

Joe Rogan 1:56:07 And they had no idea

Taylor Sheridan 1:56:08 ... no, and they, a lot of them had never fucking ridden a horse in their life. Much less fired a gun, much less, you know, they're in a completely foreign area. Like, they don't... And they landed in Texas, most of them heading to Oregon, uh, because that area was the most similar to where they were from in Central Europe. And then, you know, for whatever reason, they didn't, some didn't get that far. Some maybe never got past Waco or Fort Worth or wherever. Um, and then off they went, and, and the dangers were from, obviously, rivers and sun exposure, disease. Um, obviously there were issues with bandits and the Native American tribes, depending on the time of year that, that, or the, the era, right? By the '80s, that was largely not an issue, the 1880s. Um, but bandits sure as shit were a real issue, 'cause there's no rule of law.

Joe Rogan 1:57:06 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 1:57:07 Right? And we can look at, there's plenty of bad people doing awful shit today, and we got all sorts of laws. Now imagine if those people had the wherewithal to go to a place to where there's no laws.

Joe Rogan 1:57:18 No law and no enforcement. No help, no nothing.

Taylor Sheridan 1:57:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57:22 You're on your own.

Taylor Sheridan 1:57:23 You're on your fucking own.

Joe Rogan 1:57:24 And there was a bunch of people that had been living like that for decades, just fucking people up.

Taylor Sheridan 1:57:29 Waiting for you.

Joe Rogan 1:57:30 Just waiting for you.

Taylor Sheridan 1:57:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57:31 Waiting for you. Here they come. Let's get them.

Taylor Sheridan 1:57:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:57:34 And that was what their thing was.

Taylor Sheridan 1:57:35 Yeah. No, so, so river crossings were incredibly dangerous. Um, and then trying to... Uh, if you didn't have an experienced guide, you're fucked. Truly fucked, 'cause you could, you pick the wrong way and run out of water. Or go wander around in a circle. You get up there on the Great Plains to where it's flat and there's, and, and you don't know how to read the sun, you don't know where you're going.

Joe Rogan 1:57:59 [exhales]

Taylor Sheridan 1:58:00 People go out there and make giant circles.

Joe Rogan 1:58:02 Yeah. I was reading something about that the other day, that people tend to, for whatever reason, always walk in a counterclockwise, um, direction when they get lost, and that e- even if they're left-footed or r- right-handed or left-handed, it doesn't seem to matter. Humans, when they walk, if they get lost, like in the woods, they walk in circles, and they almost always walk in a counterclockwise direction.

Taylor Sheridan 1:58:29 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:58:29 And so this article was, uh, explaining that if you find yourself lost and you think you're running into the same places, most likely you should veer towards the right, because you're, you're most likely looping towards the left. For whatever reason-

Taylor Sheridan 1:58:47 Hmm

Joe Rogan 1:58:47 ... people tend to do that. I wonder if there's, like, a scientific explanation.

Taylor Sheridan 1:58:51 See if there's-

Joe Rogan 1:58:51 Put that in Perplexity. I did. See why people move in a counterclockwise- It didn't, it didn't come up with anything. Perplexity doesn't know shit. It doesn't know what I'm talking about. Doesn't have any track... woodsmanship.

Taylor Sheridan 1:59:00 I never understood getting lost in the wilderness. I didn't understand it.

Joe Rogan 1:59:03 Really?

Taylor Sheridan 1:59:04 I can understand not knowing where you are, but, you know, but I never understood getting lost.

Joe Rogan 1:59:09 Do you... Well, you, you must have learned how to use a compass early.

Taylor Sheridan 1:59:13 Yeah, or the, or the sun.

Joe Rogan 1:59:14 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 1:59:14 Right? If the sun comes up in the morning and you're facing it-

Joe Rogan 1:59:17 Right

Taylor Sheridan 1:59:17 ... then behind you is west, to your left is north, to your right is south.

Joe Rogan 1:59:20 Some people have zero experience in the woods, though.

Taylor Sheridan 1:59:24 True.

Joe Rogan 1:59:24 When I ask people tend to loop, often counterclockwise, when lost because small errors in our internal sense of straight ahead accumulate, and humans also have a subtle left turn counterclockwise bias whose exact cause is still unclear. Isn't that weird?

Taylor Sheridan 1:59:39 Whoa.

Joe Rogan 1:59:39 That's so weird. In lab and field experiments, blindfolded people tend to walk straight without landmarks almost always end up curving into large loops instead of moving in a straight line. People told, rather, to walk straight without landmarks.

Taylor Sheridan 1:59:54 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:59:54 Wow. This happens because without internal clues or external clues like the sun, distant objects, or a visible path, small random errors in balance and body feedback build up until the path bends enough to close into a circle. Wow.

Taylor Sheridan 2:00:10 Wow.

Joe Rogan 2:00:11 That's gotta be so disheartening. You've been walking for days-

Taylor Sheridan 2:00:14 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:00:14 ... and then you pass the same dead tree, and you're like, "Oh my God, we walked in a fucking circle." Pedestrians everywhere exhibit a counterclockwise bias, wired to walk counterclockwise. During COVID, scientists studying social distancing noticed people seemed to prefer moving counterclockwise. That's so weird.

Taylor Sheridan 2:00:34 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:00:35 Tendency is fundamentally individual rather than a collective. What does that mean? Um, so every individual does it, I guess, rather than a group of people just following-

Taylor Sheridan 2:00:46 Right

Joe Rogan 2:00:46 ... the leader. Pretty wild. So when people get lost... Some, but some, some people have just zero experience being in the woods at all, and they just don't know where to go. They're just, "Where are we?" And they just, they just fucking freak out. And then they panic, 'cause they think, "What's out there? Oh my God, I'm gonna die."

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:07 And you realize that once you're out there that nature doesn't give a fuck if you make it.

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:12 No. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:01:13 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:13 It doesn't care.

Joe Rogan 2:01:14 At all.

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:15 No.

Joe Rogan 2:01:15 It's, it's heartless, completely oblivious to your desire to stay alive.

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:21 It's not interested in what you want to do at all.

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:24 Nope. Nope, not at all. It's ambivalent.

Joe Rogan 2:01:28 But that's also part of the beauty of it, right?

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:31 When you're out there.

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:32 Especially if you take yourself seriously.

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:01:35 You're out there, you're like, "Oh, I ain't shit." [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:38 It'll, it'll test you.

Joe Rogan 2:01:40 Yeah. When you're writing a, a, a thing like 1823, like, you're doing all this research and you've read the, the diaries from your, you said your great-grandmother? Is that what it was?

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:51 Great-great.

Joe Rogan 2:01:51 Great-great-grandmother. Did you, uh, did you ever think, like, putting some of those letters online so other people can read them?

Taylor Sheridan 2:01:59 No. There's plenty of... There's, there's any number of published books of very similar journals.

Joe Rogan 2:02:05 I know, but it'd be kinda dope for people to read about your great-great-grandmother.

Taylor Sheridan 2:02:10 Yeah. And nothing happened, right? Like-

Joe Rogan 2:02:12 But still

Taylor Sheridan 2:02:13 ... it sucked. It was cold

Joe Rogan 2:02:14 ... still interesting.

Taylor Sheridan 2:02:14 We had ... fricking whatever weird shit they had for dinner that night, and, you know, so and so was rude, and-

Joe Rogan 2:02:20 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:02:21 ... you know, it was this, and we, you know, we stopped in this beautiful valley, and it was hard to get across the river, and I was scared. And, you know, but no attacks, no... It was pretty uneventful.

Joe Rogan 2:02:30 They got lucky.

Taylor Sheridan 2:02:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:02:31 It's just, it's interesting just as a window into time.

Taylor Sheridan 2:02:34 Yes.

Joe Rogan 2:02:34 You know?

Taylor Sheridan 2:02:35 Well, what's interesting really is how well-written the journal was.

Joe Rogan 2:02:40 Mm.

Taylor Sheridan 2:02:40 Right? 'Cause everyone-

Joe Rogan 2:02:41 Was very educated.

Taylor Sheridan 2:02:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:02:43 Was better educated.

Taylor Sheridan 2:02:44 Yes.

Joe Rogan 2:02:45 Yeah. Yeah, and yeah, that's, that's weird, right? When you read, like, Civil War letters, and you're like, "Why were these guys so fucking smart?"

Taylor Sheridan 2:02:54 I have letters from my grandfather, who died in World War II, love letters from him to his, to my grandmother. Um, years of them, 'cause, you know, he, they enlisted in 1941, and, and then went off and became a, a, he, they flew a, I guess it was the B-19. He flew a bomber. Um, and, uh, yeah, and wrote all these letters to her. Um, yeah, and I have all those, and they're just magnificent. Just the way-

Joe Rogan 2:03:25 Wow

Taylor Sheridan 2:03:25 ... that people would just be s- so eloquent in a letter to, you know, your wife.

Joe Rogan 2:03:33 Yeah, "My beloved." They would write-

Taylor Sheridan 2:03:34 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:03:35 ... things like that.

Taylor Sheridan 2:03:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:03:36 It is weird, like, the de- deterioration of our ability to express ourselves, the common person's ability to express themselves. Like, you wouldn't have expected that back then, I bet. If you could tell people about the future, go, "Oh, you're gonna have the answer to any question on your phone. You have a small device in your pocket. It's also acts as a flashlight, and you're gonna be able to pick that thing up and ask it anything you want, and in- instantaneously it's gonna give you a result." Be like, "Oh, people must be brilliant." No, no, they're half retarded.

Taylor Sheridan 2:04:06 [laughs] Because they didn't learn anything.

Joe Rogan 2:04:09 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 2:04:09 Right? You can ask a machine. The machine's done all the learning.

Joe Rogan 2:04:13 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:04:13 You just get an answer that you didn't earn.

Joe Rogan 2:04:15 Mm-hmm.

Taylor Sheridan 2:04:15 Right?

Joe Rogan 2:04:16 That's the word.

Taylor Sheridan 2:04:17 Earn, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:18 Yeah, just like equity. Like, the problem with equity is you didn't earn it. [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:04:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04:24 You know? The problem with, uh, having the same results as everybody else when you don't put the same effort. "People in the 1800s often spent blocks of time, typically one to three hours at a stretch, on letter writing, and heavy correspondents could easily spend several hours most days." Wow. "Most people treated correspondence as a regular daily or weekly task, similar to a modern email block, accepting that it would be, take a significant chunk of their time." Wow. I mean, how important was the fucking mailman back then? My-

Taylor Sheridan 2:04:59 Everything.

Joe Rogan 2:05:00 The guy was everything.

Taylor Sheridan 2:05:01 Everything.

Joe Rogan 2:05:01 Some dude on a horse with a fucking bag of letters. [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:05:07 Nuts.

Joe Rogan 2:05:07 For a quarter. I mean, how much did they charge? A quarter was a lot of money back then. Probably was less than that.

Taylor Sheridan 2:05:12 Yeah, it was probably half a penny or something if they had a... Well, they did have a half penny.

Joe Rogan 2:05:17 Do, how much do you enjoy writing that kind of a show versus writing a show like Lioness or like Landman? Like, what is, what is your... Do you have a favorite, or do you like all of them?

Taylor Sheridan 2:05:27 No, I, I, I can't say I, I have a, I have a favorite necessarily. You know, the fun thing about Lioness, which is sort of, I can't say it's ripped from the headlines, 'cause I don't... I've, I've tried to be, um, I've tried to guess what's gonna happen politically and then fictionalize that. Um, and the fact that I've managed to be right [laughs] is pretty fucking wild. I thought surely in season two when I, when I, when I said that the cartels had been listed as terrorist organizations, I'm like, "This, I, this could be my 18-month cancel vacation coming." Um, and then it fucking happened. [laughs] And then it came out, and I, you know, the show came out within weeks of that, and, and I looked, I looked really-

Joe Rogan 2:06:16 Like a soothsayer

Taylor Sheridan 2:06:17 ... yeah. Um, so that, it, it's a lot of fun because it's so political, and it, and it's not, it doesn't choose a political side. It just looks at the, the tradecraft of espionage and, and how it's, it, it intermingles with our military, and, and, and it's just fascinating shit to me. Just fascinating.

Joe Rogan 2:06:36 But there's so many different things that you have to be aware of to write the shit that you write. You know, like, um, is it Harrison Ford won 1923, is that what it is?

Taylor Sheridan 2:06:45 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:06:45 That one is fascinating, too. 'Cause you got the guy who goes off to Africa, and, you know, and he comes back, and you got all these people that are trying to steal land. So it's not totally lawless, but it's on the border of lawlessness.

Taylor Sheridan 2:06:57 Yeah. You're, you're, you're watching, you know, Montana in the '20s was fascinating.

Joe Rogan 2:07:01 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:01 It was a fascinating place because you've got the 20th century, the Industrial Revolution in full swing, and you have washing machines and refrigerators and telephones and electricity, and then you still, you're still traveling by horseback.

Joe Rogan 2:07:14 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:15 Um, so it, it, very, very interesting. And so, and so that, that's a really fun thing to explore, right? Those windows-

Joe Rogan 2:07:23 That one dude who was the evil rich guy on that show.

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:26 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:26 Fuck, he killed it.

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:27 Tim Dalton.

Joe Rogan 2:07:28 Oh my God, that's right, Tim Dalton, who was Bond at one point in time.

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:32 Right?

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:07:33 Crazy.

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:33 Yes. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:34 'Cause, 'cause my God, did he play a good fucking creep.

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:37 Oh, he's twisted.

Joe Rogan 2:07:38 So good.

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:40 I forgot that it was Tim Dalton.

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:41 That's how good it was.

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:42 Yeah, my wife watched that and looked at me like, "How'd you think that shit up, dude?"

Joe Rogan 2:07:47 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:48 Like, I got the side eye for, there's a couple of scenes where she's going like, "Bro, what are you thinking?"

Joe Rogan 2:07:55 Yeah, there's a couple scenes I wondered myself.

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:07:57 I was like, "This is rough."

Taylor Sheridan 2:07:58 I was like, I was like, "That's evil." Like, and-

Joe Rogan 2:08:00 Some of the S&M stuff is like, "Jesus Christ."

Taylor Sheridan 2:08:02 Pretty twisted.

Joe Rogan 2:08:03 But there's people like that in the world.

Taylor Sheridan 2:08:05 100%.

Joe Rogan 2:08:07 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:08:07 Yeah, I had to res- I'll tell you what, my, my computer, I just assume that the CIA and FBI have, like, a whole team, because the shit I look up when I'm researching. I'm like, "How to make a bomb. S&M practice." [laughs] CIA hot regions in the Middle East, and it's all at once, right"

Joe Rogan 2:08:27 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:08:27 So I know-

Joe Rogan 2:08:28 Yeah, there's no way they're not looking at your phone.

Taylor Sheridan 2:08:30 No, they're looking at it going-

Joe Rogan 2:08:31 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 2:08:31 ... "Ah, Taylor's writing something new. Look at this." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:08:33 Well, I think anybody that has any influence, they probably look at your shit no matter what anyway, which is also dark. Like, we don't even know how much actual, real spying on people is occurring. We're just guessing.

Taylor Sheridan 2:08:45 No, we don't have any idea. Um, I think within the world of tradecraft, a tremendous amount.

Joe Rogan 2:08:52 Oh, yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:08:53 I think within the world of, um, I mean, within that world, I think a ton.

Joe Rogan 2:08:57 How... When you're writing that, how difficult is it to really keep your finger on the pulse of what's actually going on with, uh, espionage and, like, what tools they actually have available? Like, are you making some up?

Taylor Sheridan 2:09:12 No. I mean, most of the... I mean, I'm sure there is some extremely high-tech tradecraft going on, right? For sure. Um, tracking devices and various things, satellite imagery, facial recognition, all of these things. But a lot of it's also very low tech by its, by design 'cause it's harder to, it's harder to trace, right? Um, and, and it's a lot of leverage and manipulation. Uh, you're either bribing someone with money or blackmailing them, and that's typically... Those, those are the two tools that, that are being used the most, um, in tradecraft and, and in the spy game, right? That's really... You- your- it's leverage. Leveraging individuals. And they're all doing it.

Joe Rogan 2:09:57 Mm.

Taylor Sheridan 2:09:57 Everybody, right? Every single... And then if you look at some of the... And again, I'm not getting on any, uh, p- completely apolitical. But from a tradecraft standpoint, what the Mossad was able to do with all those fucking cell phones and pagers and shit, like-

Joe Rogan 2:10:15 Nuts

Taylor Sheridan 2:10:15 ... you wanna talk about play the long game. Like, build this dummy company, sell all these, get all these devices to all of these people who are your enemy, and [laughs] start setting them off years later.

Joe Rogan 2:10:28 Crazy.

Taylor Sheridan 2:10:28 To detonate. Insanity.

Joe Rogan 2:10:33 I mean, it's genius. It really is.

Taylor Sheridan 2:10:35 Insanity.

Joe Rogan 2:10:36 Not endorsing it.

Taylor Sheridan 2:10:37 No.

Joe Rogan 2:10:37 But just saying.

Taylor Sheridan 2:10:38 No, but if you, if you-

Joe Rogan 2:10:38 The actual act of doing it-

Taylor Sheridan 2:10:40 To, to look incredibly-

Joe Rogan 2:10:41 ... incredible

Taylor Sheridan 2:10:41 ... the patience and the planning and the risks and, and the, that they were able to execute, that, uh, is, is shocking.

Joe Rogan 2:10:51 When you saw that in the news, did you think, "If I wrote that, no one would fucking buy it"?

Taylor Sheridan 2:10:56 Dude, I do that all the time with the news.

Joe Rogan 2:10:58 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:11:00 The Maduro rate. If I had written that-

Joe Rogan 2:11:02 Right. Right

Taylor Sheridan 2:11:03 ... no one would... No one-

Joe Rogan 2:11:04 Right. They'd be like, "That's too simple."

Taylor Sheridan 2:11:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:06 "The fuck out of here."

Taylor Sheridan 2:11:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:07 "That's not how it goes down."

Taylor Sheridan 2:11:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:09 Even the r- bin- bin Laden raid, a helicopter crashed.

Taylor Sheridan 2:11:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:11:12 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:11:13 Yeah. The fact that they were able to... And I know it wasn't as, as smooth as it was led on to be, but the fact that no one died, not an American in, or invading [laughs] the Venezuelan military base in the middle of Caracas, it's fucking insane.

Joe Rogan 2:11:31 It seems like it went pretty smooth. Do you think it went less smooth than they're saying?

Taylor Sheridan 2:11:34 I'm sure that there's elements of, like... I'm sure, right? I don't know how many... The one thing I've learned with all my research into the military is any of these operations, there's, there's this, there's actually a line. In, in the upcoming Lioness where someone says, "Did it go smooth?" And the, the guy says, "Well, smooth as these things go," right?

Joe Rogan 2:11:53 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 2:11:54 'Cause that's, 'cause just by the very nature, you start sticking a bunch of people in helicopters with guns and, you know, shit's gonna happen, right? Um, but the fact that there were no casualties, that no one was killed, no American was killed, is incredible.

Joe Rogan 2:12:07 Yeah, it is incredible. It's pretty groundbreaking. Like, this is an, like a new benchmark for what could be possible in terms of an invasion, at least of a third world country. It's just shocking the difference in the technology that the United States possessed versus them.

Taylor Sheridan 2:12:24 Well, the-

Joe Rogan 2:12:24 And whether or not they were even available, that's... That no one knew, rather, that that stuff was available.

Taylor Sheridan 2:12:29 Yeah. War is gonna change very, very quickly. Um, with drones. AI and dr- and drones are, are gonna alter the landscape of war. Um, we're gonna... We're getting real close to some Terminator shit. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:12:43 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:12:43 And I'm not saying that like it's a good thing.

Joe Rogan 2:12:45 No.

Taylor Sheridan 2:12:45 Um, it, it's a, it's a, it's a very, very... You talk about adolescence of, of us as a s- as a species. We're seeing an adolescence in the teenage years of new, a new type of warfare. And, and when it grows up, it is gonna be a beast. A beast. And, and I've... Just think about it. You can, you, you can... You know, now they've got drones that are the size of airplanes, that can have a payload that is devastating, right? Beyond just simply a predator drone that's got a couple hellfire missiles or whatever it may have. Um, and someone sitting in a Conex in the desert in Nevada can fly that thing halfway around the world. Or don't have anyone fly it, pre-program it, and the thing flies itself. And that's... You give, give the drone a mission and send the drone off to do the mission, and it's fully automated.

Joe Rogan 2:13:43 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:13:43 And that's some terrifying shit.

Joe Rogan 2:13:45 I bet a lot... That's a lot of what this UAP shit is, too. I bet it's experimenting with that type of technology, with some sort of a novel propulsion system.

Taylor Sheridan 2:13:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:13:54 'Cause they were working on novel propulsion systems way back in the '50s and the '60s. They were working on anti-gravity in the '60s.

Taylor Sheridan 2:14:02 I don't think we're, I don't think we're there.

Joe Rogan 2:14:04 I don't know.

Taylor Sheridan 2:14:05 I don't think we're there.

Joe Rogan 2:14:06 I don't know. I don't know where we're at.

Taylor Sheridan 2:14:09 I don't either. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:14:09 I don't know where we're at, but I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced that they haven't done something. In fact, Eric Weinstein makes some really interesting, um, connections between... There's a college in upstate New York, a university in upstate New York that has a very overqualified physics department, and it's connected to a hedge fund that does- Bigger than Bernie Madoff type numbers. And he's like, "The whole thing l- stinks to high heaven." And he goes, "And I have a feeling that there's some sort of, uh, an undisclosed or, uh, a top secret above, you know, top secret access program that's going on."

Taylor Sheridan 2:14:45 Oh, I can promise you there's something.

Joe Rogan 2:14:47 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:14:48 I've always thought a possible solution to petroleum, as far as transportation goes, and I've wondered why they've never tried it, is, is using magnetic force, right? If you have ... You take a positive and negative charge, they're gonna come together. But if you take, uh, a positive and positive or negative and negative, they're gonna... I'm no fucking scientist, but you know, it's gonna repel, right?

Joe Rogan 2:15:14 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 2:15:14 We've taken magnets and they push each other away. Well, how can, how can we not use that? If you had a vehicle and the base of it is essentially a positive charge or a negative, whatever it takes to make the magnets repel, and then your road base was essentially the similarly charged metal, wouldn't that, wouldn't that make it so much-

Joe Rogan 2:15:38 Wouldn't you have to redo all the roads to make something like that real?

Taylor Sheridan 2:15:41 Or, or put it in the road.

Joe Rogan 2:15:42 Yeah, maybe. I mean-

Taylor Sheridan 2:15:44 On the road

Joe Rogan 2:15:44 ... it certainly could be a potential source of transportation for the future, but I think the things that they're doing now probably relates to some sort of anti-gravity propulsion system. And, um, then there was that, you know, I'm sure you're aware of this, all those scientists that went missing or wound up being murdered.

Taylor Sheridan 2:16:03 [laughs] Yeah, dude.

Joe Rogan 2:16:05 How fucking sketchy is that?

Taylor Sheridan 2:16:06 [laughs] All of them from-

Joe Rogan 2:16:07 Oh, it's a coincidence

Taylor Sheridan 2:16:08 ... from Los Alamos, all up there-

Joe Rogan 2:16:09 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 2:16:09 ... at the nuclear... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:10 Coincidence. Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:16:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:14 Who knows? I mean, who knows what the fuck those people were working on, and whether or not they made breakthroughs and they don't want other people to know, or whether or not they wanna stop the breakthrough because they're aligned with whatever the conventional propulsion systems are and they don't wanna lose money. This m- thing makes them obsolete.

Taylor Sheridan 2:16:31 Or-

Joe Rogan 2:16:31 They can set back the science for a few years or whack anybody

Taylor Sheridan 2:16:33 ... or is it tradecraft? Is it, is it Russian or Chinese or-

Joe Rogan 2:16:37 Yep

Taylor Sheridan 2:16:37 ... Iranian tradecraft?

Joe Rogan 2:16:37 Could be that easy. Yeah. Oh, sure. And it's, that's the other thing that Weinstein was saying, is like, it's really shocking how little these incredibly important scientists are protected.

Taylor Sheridan 2:16:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:49 They're just fucking driving their Volvo to the university and working on top secret shit.

Taylor Sheridan 2:16:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:16:55 And no one's making sure they don't get whacked by China.

Taylor Sheridan 2:16:58 Yeah. Yeah. I'd, I'd be curious, uh, w- and, and when they look into that, what was it, 11 of them in a year?

Joe Rogan 2:17:05 It was 15 over a course of a few years, and some of them, people are n- they're going, "Ah, this could be coincidence." But there's a few of them where it's like, okay, these people, like this lady was specifically working on spacecraft metallurgy. This guy was specifically working on cold fusion. This guy was specifically ... Like, there's a bunch of them where you go, "Okay."

Taylor Sheridan 2:17:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:17:27 "Something's weird. Something's weird here."

Taylor Sheridan 2:17:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:17:30 Well, enough to the fact that the government's looking into it. They'll go, "Okay, there might be something here." So Justice Department's investigating it. They're trying to figure out of what the connection is and what could have happened, but, you know, it's hard after the fact to try to figure out who did something, especially if somebody got hired from another country. Like, they're not gonna tell you. Like, how are you gonna know? You didn't catch him. Did you not catch him when they killed the guy? Okay. Well, you're probably fucked.

Taylor Sheridan 2:17:52 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's ...

Joe Rogan 2:17:59 15. Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:18:01 And they're all from that area, aren't they, Los Alamos, around there?

Joe Rogan 2:18:03 I don't know. I'm not sure. I think that's part of the problem. It's like there's, whenever you have a thing like this where people start looking for connections, they can make some s- connections that aren't necessarily valid. And so, like, let's say if there's 15, let's say 10 of them, 10 of them are bullshit.

Taylor Sheridan 2:18:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:18:19 That means five aren't bullshit. If, you know, if that's true, that's a lot. It's five super fucking brilliant people that got whacked.

Taylor Sheridan 2:18:27 Yeah. And it's, it's interesting that you'd have that many in this specific field in this period of time.

Joe Rogan 2:18:34 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:18:35 And, and they're not... You know, you, I would think of a scientist as being pretty fucking healthy, right? And-

Joe Rogan 2:18:42 I don't know about that. I think a lot of them are just in their own head, you know, and they're probably not even paying attention to their body.

Taylor Sheridan 2:18:49 Did they all disappear?

Joe Rogan 2:18:51 Different people died from different things, and one of, one of the weirder ones was this one lady who was, uh, I think she's the metallurgy lady, where she was hiking with her friend and, uh, they were just hiking together, and the friend turned around to talk to her, and she was gone. And she was just behind her, like 30 seconds before. They couldn't find her. They brought in cadaver dogs. They brought in search parties. Never found her. And I think they might have found her body recently. They, see, they fou- I think there was a report a few days ago that they might have found her body. It's-

Taylor Sheridan 2:19:24 I'd be, I'd be looking real close at the friend. Just, that's just me.

Joe Rogan 2:19:28 [laughs] Right.

Taylor Sheridan 2:19:28 That's just me.

Joe Rogan 2:19:29 As a guy who writes scripts.

Taylor Sheridan 2:19:30 Hey, so-

Joe Rogan 2:19:30 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:19:31 So me and Joe went for a hike. I turned around, that fucker's gone.

Joe Rogan 2:19:33 "Hey, I don't know what happened."

Taylor Sheridan 2:19:34 I looked everywhere for him.

Joe Rogan 2:19:35 "I mean, I swear I had just talked to him 30 seconds ago."

Taylor Sheridan 2:19:39 And he's, he's just not there. I don't know, man.

Joe Rogan 2:19:40 No sign of struggle. It's weird. Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:19:43 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:19:45 Yeah. Like a husband and wife go hiking, and the lady falls off the cliff. They're like, "Hey, buddy."

Taylor Sheridan 2:19:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:19:50 "What the fuck happened? You guys arguing? Can I see your text messages?"

Taylor Sheridan 2:19:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:19:54 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:19:55 Yeah, or the one that just fell off the boat.

Joe Rogan 2:19:58 Oh, what happened there?

Taylor Sheridan 2:19:58 Uh, I, I, I, I kinda wanna say it wrong, but I think she, I think sh- she was out in the Bahamas.

Joe Rogan 2:20:06 Oh.

Taylor Sheridan 2:20:07 I, I read about it. She, she-

Joe Rogan 2:20:08 Was it a cruise ship one?

Taylor Sheridan 2:20:09 No, no, no. It was him and his lady, and they're out on a sailboat or something, and-

Joe Rogan 2:20:13 Oh, and she whooped-

Taylor Sheridan 2:20:14 ... I think the thing was-

Joe Rogan 2:20:14 ... fell off the side.

Taylor Sheridan 2:20:15 Yeah. He had to... Yeah, something, something weird.

Joe Rogan 2:20:17 Well, it goes all the way-

Taylor Sheridan 2:20:18 They're not, they're not buying it. It goes nowhere.

Joe Rogan 2:20:20 It goes all the way back to the Natalie Wood story. You ever look into that one?

Taylor Sheridan 2:20:23 Oh, yeah. That's right.

Joe Rogan 2:20:25 Ooh.

Taylor Sheridan 2:20:25 Her and Walken and Robert Wagner on that.

Joe Rogan 2:20:28 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:20:29 Is that right?

Joe Rogan 2:20:30 And Robert Wagner and her had a big fight, apparently.

Taylor Sheridan 2:20:33 And then she just...

Joe Rogan 2:20:35 Whoops.

Taylor Sheridan 2:20:35 Yep.

Speaker 2:20:38 Not the same person as the metallurgy

Joe Rogan 2:20:40 Oh, which one is this lady? But she was one of the scientists, correct?

Speaker 2:20:44 Uh, let's see.

Joe Rogan 2:20:46 I believe she was one of the missing scientists.

Speaker 2:20:48 She was definitely missing for a year.

Joe Rogan 2:20:50 Which one was she?

Speaker 2:20:52 I mean, I don't know what it... I don't know which ones are-

Joe Rogan 2:20:54 What was her specialty?

Speaker 2:20:55 It doesn't, it just, she's a missing lab worker.

Joe Rogan 2:20:58 Does it say what she worked on?

Speaker 2:20:59 Nope.

Joe Rogan 2:21:00 No. Administrative assistant. Uh, yeah, I remember this lady. Yeah.

Speaker 2:21:09 The other one was, uh, her name is Reza.

Joe Rogan 2:21:13 And the Reza one-

Speaker 2:21:15 Reza

Joe Rogan 2:21:15 ... that lady, she was the one that has the, uh... So she served as a director of na- uh, NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and she was in the materials processing group. She sep- specialized in burn-resistant, high-strength metal alloys and rocket propulsion metals. And wasn't she one that had, like, a we- some weird videos where she had made?

Speaker 2:21:37 I, I don't know.

Joe Rogan 2:21:37 I don't know. Anyway, [clears throat] the whole, the whole thing's f- creepy as fuck.

Taylor Sheridan 2:21:41 Wild. And she was hiking in the Angeles National Forest.

Joe Rogan 2:21:44 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:21:45 Outside of Pasadena. Hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:21:50 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:21:51 That could actually be a fucking mountain lion.

Joe Rogan 2:21:53 It could be.

Taylor Sheridan 2:21:54 You know?

Joe Rogan 2:21:55 Or it could be a lady who's working on top-secret rocket propulsion fucking metals.

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:00 [laughs] Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:22:01 And they're like, "This lady's a problem."

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:03 Wasn't there some, some town, I wanna say it's Arcadia in California, they j- the, the, the mayor of that city-

Joe Rogan 2:22:10 Yeah

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:10 ... yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:22:11 Arcadia.

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:22:12 She was a Chinese spy.

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:13 My Chinese spy. [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:22:14 [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:16 I would have to think if you're, if you've rec- how many people have you recruited that you finally go, "Well, fuck it. Let's try and get the mayor of Arcadia. We got, we got everybody else." [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:22:26 Yeah, they probably, like, worked her into position to run as mayor, you know? I mean, how-

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:32 And then, and then with the hopes of, she was relatively young, right? Um, maybe-

Joe Rogan 2:22:38 Right

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:38 ... you go run for a state rep and then-

Joe Rogan 2:22:39 Right

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:39 ... you run for Congress and-

Joe Rogan 2:22:41 Be the fucking president

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:42 ... there was, uh, there was a thing in the '70s called Abscam. Do you remember this?

Joe Rogan 2:22:46 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:47 Where there were all of these politicians, a few congressmen, some state reps, uh, and they were all, like, Russian spies or all, or at least on the take.

Joe Rogan 2:22:58 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 2:22:59 Right.

Joe Rogan 2:22:59 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:00 All of them Soviet. Soviet spies. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:23:02 Did you ever see that show, The Americans?

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:04 Uh-uh.

Joe Rogan 2:23:05 I didn't either, but I heard it was great.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:06 Yeah, I heard that too.

Joe Rogan 2:23:06 It was all about sleeper cell Russian family-

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:09 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:23:09 ... that was pretending to be normal.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:10 Yeah. That's fascinating shit.

Joe Rogan 2:23:12 Yeah. That's real. They did that. They really had Russian agents pretending to be American citizens.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:18 Oh, I wouldn't say had. I would say have.

Joe Rogan 2:23:21 Oh, yeah. No, yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. And Chinese, yeah, for sure.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:25 For sure.

Joe Rogan 2:23:26 For sure.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:26 100%.

Joe Rogan 2:23:27 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:28 No, plenty of them.

Joe Rogan 2:23:29 100%.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:23:30 Well, how many Israeli agents are in Hezbollah or in Hamas? Like, probably.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:35 Or in the IRGC.

Joe Rogan 2:23:36 Yeah, probably. They probably got a bunch of those guys in there.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:39 100%.

Joe Rogan 2:23:39 Yeah. It's just wild.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:41 [laughs] Fucking, it's tradecraft, man.

Joe Rogan 2:23:44 Yeah.

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:44 That's a fucking whole other thing.

Joe Rogan 2:23:46 How hard is it to write about that stuff and, like, get it right, to get it accurate?

Taylor Sheridan 2:23:51 Yeah. I mean, you, you... I don't know. You, you speculate a lot and you look at, at the past, right? Because there's been enough... It's funny 'cause when they get caught, never, it's never that big a deal. Like, there are always some, uh... It, it doesn't, for whatever reason, the, the news doesn't... There's, we could pull it up. There's been any number of Chinese scientists over here, and they were stealing this, and they caught them-

Joe Rogan 2:24:15 Oh, yeah

Taylor Sheridan 2:24:16 ... doing this. It happens all the time. Um-

Joe Rogan 2:24:18 See, the ones that got caught trying to bring in bio-

Taylor Sheridan 2:24:21 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:24:21 ... they were, they're trying to bring in... What were they trying to bring in? Diseases or something. Something-

Speaker 2:24:25 I was looking, there's another one in Vegas recently, but it's like they have these bio labs that are, like, being run out of, like, an apartment or something.

Joe Rogan 2:24:33 CCP-linked bio labs in American soil exposes major biosecurity gaps. Policy makers must act to improve oversight in biological research activity. Wasn't there a guy that got busted that was an Israeli agent, and he got released, and he took a-

Speaker 2:24:50 That's the one I think was in Vegas.

Joe Rogan 2:24:51 Yeah.

Speaker 2:24:52 I was gonna pull that up.

Joe Rogan 2:24:52 That's the one in Vegas. Yeah. So this guy, he had all these fucking diseases in his garage. [laughs]

Speaker 2:24:58 1,200 samples.

Joe Rogan 2:24:59 [laughs]

Speaker 2:25:00 That's...

Joe Rogan 2:25:03 Conclusion the F- it's, "Conclusion of the FBI lab that the community could not be harmed by what was contained in that lab." What? [laughs] "Finding possible biological laboratory in a garage. Inside, investigators found refrigerators with vials containing unknown liquids. Police said in the immediate aftermath the home is also operated as an unlicensed short-term rental." [laughs]

Speaker 2:25:29 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:25:29 What is this fucking guy doing? Why... So the ques- go, scroll up, up, up. Uh, yeah. It says, "The question is why does somebody have these materials in a private residence? It's not a doctor, not a lab, not a licensed medical facility of any sort." And then homeboy got released.

Speaker 2:25:45 Yeah, but check out the names on some of the vials.

Joe Rogan 2:25:47 Oh, boy. "They located pathogen-labeled containers with labels such as dengue fever, HIV, and malaria, along with 1,000 mice, a- according to a federal report. Federal government never tested the items, and the CDC only made its determination based on the labeling." What?

Speaker 2:26:06 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:26:07 What the fuck? "So in that case, Chinese citizen David He faces federal charges for allegedly manufacturing and distributing misbranded medical devices." [sighs]

Speaker 2:26:21 He does not face charges.

Joe Rogan 2:26:24 "He does not face charges connected to the Las Vegas raid, and a trial in California was scheduled for April." What the fuck? Just a bunch of vials of HIV-

Taylor Sheridan 2:26:36 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:26:36 ... and AIDS and fucking dengue fever and malaria. No worries.

Taylor Sheridan 2:26:40 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 2:26:41 Normal. So what was the Israeli guy, the guy who owned the lab? There was a g- like an Israeli guy who they caught who owned the... And then they released him, and he went back to Israel. And everybody's like, "Hey. W- what?"

Speaker 2:26:55 [laughs] That's the same case, I think. It says, "Feds drop case against man arrested in Las Vegas bio lab investigation."

Joe Rogan 2:27:02 What's his name?

Speaker 2:27:05 Ori Solomon.

Joe Rogan 2:27:06 Oh, Ori. What were you doing? Ori. Ori, why do you have the HIV, Ori?

Speaker 2:27:13 [laughs]

Joe Rogan 2:27:13 There he is. "Feds drop case against man arrested in L- Las Vegas bio lab investigation." Yeah, I mean, why investigate? Let it go, guys. No big deal.

Speaker 2:27:24 Yeah, t- he was only charged with illegal possession of a firearm in Nevada.

Joe Rogan 2:27:29 [laughs] His immigration status precluded him from owning or possessing a gun. Well, listen, if he doesn't have a gun, how the fuck is he gonna defend all his malaria? People try to steal malaria, bro. Gotta be careful. Oh, boy.

Speaker 2:27:43 Yeah, this doesn't... [laughs] Seems like someone made that go away.

Joe Rogan 2:27:46 There's too much fucking shit in the world to pay attention to, and too much of it is so disheartening. The more you look into it, the more you're like, "Is it all fucked? Is the whole world fucked?" Like, what is going on?

Speaker 2:27:59 [sighs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:28:00 A- and, and my guess is because there are so many different... Two things, right? There's so many different... They... There's no secrets with the internet and social media and phones. Shit's getting out. But it's also getting out at such a volume that none of it seems to have an impact.

Joe Rogan 2:28:19 Right. Right, right.

Taylor Sheridan 2:28:20 There's just so much.

Joe Rogan 2:28:22 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 2:28:22 Think about that in the 1990s.

Joe Rogan 2:28:25 Right.

Taylor Sheridan 2:28:26 It's... They're talking about that on Nightline and this and that and Meet the Press, and Chinese spies, this, and Israeli g- you know?

Joe Rogan 2:28:33 Uh-huh.

Taylor Sheridan 2:28:34 That's news. But now it's just another...

Joe Rogan 2:28:37 The news cycle's a flood. It's like you, you, you drop a rose petal in the river while a flood's going by. Like, it-

Taylor Sheridan 2:28:46 Yeah

Joe Rogan 2:28:46 ... it's gone.

Taylor Sheridan 2:28:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:28:47 It's here, it's gone.

Taylor Sheridan 2:28:48 And it's a sensory overload and-

Joe Rogan 2:28:50 Mm-hmm

Taylor Sheridan 2:28:51 ... and, and people are tuning it all out.

Joe Rogan 2:28:53 They're tuning it all out also because nothing ever gets done.

Taylor Sheridan 2:28:55 No.

Joe Rogan 2:28:55 Nothing happens. And the more people like that get released, the more people are like, "Ah." They throw their hands in the air.

Taylor Sheridan 2:29:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:29:00 They'd rather just watch sports.

Taylor Sheridan 2:29:02 Yeah. Yeah, just forget about it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:29:06 Well...

Taylor Sheridan 2:29:07 I can't believe Simon & Schuster didn't send you my book.

Joe Rogan 2:29:09 Yeah. Well, I don't know what happened, but I'll listen to it on audio tape. I'm glad you did the audio tape, though.

Taylor Sheridan 2:29:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:29:16 That's important.

Taylor Sheridan 2:29:16 Yeah. Pull up the... You're gonna fucking love it. It's, it's oddly entertaining and informative.

Joe Rogan 2:29:26 How did you have the time to write a book?

Taylor Sheridan 2:29:27 So, so-

Joe Rogan 2:29:28 You're writing 150 different TV shows

Taylor Sheridan 2:29:30 ... so, so you know what it is. Do you know anything about it?

Joe Rogan 2:29:33 No.

Taylor Sheridan 2:29:34 Pull it up. I just want to... I'm gonna try and... I don't even wanna tell you what it's called. I just want you to see the title.

Joe Rogan 2:29:41 Okay. How to Not Die in Prison. [laughs]

Taylor Sheridan 2:29:43 [laughs] I told you you're gonna like it. So here's the... So h- so here's the deal. Um, so when I lived in LA, there was a gym on Beverly Boulevard, right at like Beverly and Sweetzer, and everybody called it Buns on Beverly, 'cause it had all the, the, the treadmills kind of right up there, and all the girls are there. And if you get stuck in traffic, you're staring at all their asses. That was my gym. So me and a buddy of mine shared an apartment together, and we'd jog down there and work out every day. And there was this dude that showed up and started working out in there, and this dude was jacked, but different than like the West Hollywood fit. Like, this fucker was yoked and had all these crazy tattoos on him. Um, and we became kind of like friendly and, uh, and ended up kind of becoming friends. And his name's Tom Nelson. And one day I'm like, "Hey, so, uh, what have you been doing?" He goes, "Well, you know, I'm gonna start a personal tr- I'm gonna start personal training here. I was working over at the vitamin shop." Guy's like in his 40s. I'm like, "Working in a vitamin shop in your 40s? That's kind of weird." And I said, "Yeah, um, have you always lived in, uh, California?" He's like, "Well, I've been here v- 19 years, 20 years." "Yeah, yeah." I said, "Where are you from?" "Somewhere in the southeast." And I said, "You always live in LA?" He goes, "Well, no, I just got to LA. See, I've been in prison." I said, "Oh. How long?" "17 years." I said, "Oh." And I didn't ask anything else, right? Uh, he does become a personal trainer, and I'd see him over... W- one day we have lunch and we're bullshitting, and I'm like s- s- "What, what, what... Tell me the deal." He's like, "Oh, I was a fucking criminal, dude. Like a criminal, like a real criminal, like biggest drug dealer in, in, in Hollywood, and armed robbery, and ran over a DEA agent. Like, I was a fucking criminal. But now I've... You know, when I was in, I, I s- I discovered, you know, fitness. I started working out." And I'm like, "When I get out, I'm gonna..." You know, he got himself in good shape. "I'm gonna start... This is my passion. I'm gonna do this." So he was a trainer there for a while, and then he opened his own personal training gym, and, uh, and I would go work out over there and hang out with him. He was a cool fucking dude. And, uh, and it became the biggest private training gym in independent, in Hollywood. So I go off and I, I, uh, you know, I start writing, and, uh, I'm shooting Yellowstone, and he reaches out and he goes, "Hey, I wrote a movie about my life. I'm gonna send it to you." So he sends it to me, and I read it, and it's actually pretty good. Um, but it's sort of a fun '90s kind of... They don't make movies like this anymore. It's like we... It's The Rock, but we're celebrating the p- you know, the guy, the fucking criminal. But it was, but it was good. I said, "Hey, I'll pass it on to some producers and..." But nothing ever happened with it. Anyway, so COVID happens. I'm stuck up on this ranch in Montana, and I call him and I say, "Tom, where do you get your gym equipment from? 'Cause I need to build a gym 'cause we can't go to a gym. I can't leave the ranch." COVID restrictions, the whole fucking cast is stuck on that ranch. And, and he said, "They shut my gym down, dude. So, I mean, I'll sell you anything you want." So I, I sent a flatbed trailer to LA and picked up a pile of gym equipment from him. And di- didn't, didn't hear from him again. He calls me maybe 18 months ago, two years, and I, and I answer, and he's like, "Hey, man, I'm in a bad way." I'm like, "What's the deal?" He goes, "Fucking, I got... " He's a single father. "I got a five-year-old kid. I got fucking colon cancer. I'm fucking dying, and I don't... I'm, I'm tapped out, dude. I'm a fucking 60-year-old felon. I can't get a job. I can't do anything. Is there any work on your movies or, or anything that I could do?" And I said, "Well, first, colon cancer, how bad? Like, what stage? What's this?" He goes, "I don't know. They saw it on an X-ray and diagnosed me." And I said, "Well, let's f- deal with that shit first." So I fly him to Texas where I know people, and I get him in, and he sees a, a doctor, and fortunately, the mass wasn't cancer, so they, th- they help him out, do the surgery, get that done. And then I say, "Well, I mean, I can get you a job on a movie, but it doesn't pay very good, and the hours are shit, and you've got a five-year-old daughter. I mean, you, you know, to just be a production assistant or something is not gonna pay enough to off- it's, it's not a great... that's not a plan, right?" And he goes, "You think you could, like, just spot me for a few months while I try and figure shit out?" And I said, "I have 100% failure rate of loaning money to friends. Like, it doesn't work, right? I'm not a bank, and, and buying you 90 days ain't gonna fucking help." I said, "But let me think. Let me think of something." And so it doesn't take me very long, and I'm, and I'm thinking, "Here's a guy who spent 17 years in prison." And you know what I've never read? I've never read a how to not fucking die, a, a travel guide to prison. So I call him back, and I go, "I got it, Tom. We're gonna write a book." "About my life?" "Kinda. We're gonna write a travel guide to prison for the accidental inmate, right? Somebody who fucks up, and they end up, and they don't know how to navigate this place." He goes, "A travel guide?" I said, "I'm gonna send you..." So I bought a bunch of Lonely Planet travel guide to Thailand and Mexico, and, and I said, "Look at these, right? It breaks it down. It tells you an overview of the country. Then it gives you a glossary of the terms. They teach you the language. They talk about the food. They talk about where you stay. They talk about navigating the country. We're gonna do that for, for prison." And he goes, "I'm in." I said, "Great. I'm gonna write all the intros. I'll build the structure and, and walk you through it, and you're gonna..." So it's literally a travel guide to prison, and it walks you through day one, how to navigate the yard, being processed in, the food, the commissary, the gangs, the diseases, prison riots, how to get a job in there, how to fucking make a shiv, how to... everything.

Joe Rogan 2:35:52 Whoa.

Taylor Sheridan 2:35:52 It's a, it is a ch- tour guide to prison.

Joe Rogan 2:35:55 How many pages?

Taylor Sheridan 2:35:57 A couple hundred.

Joe Rogan 2:35:57 [laughs] It sounds awesome.

Taylor Sheridan 2:36:01 It's the craziest-

Joe Rogan 2:36:01 I hope I never need it.

Taylor Sheridan 2:36:02 No. Well, I, I would-

Joe Rogan 2:36:04 Most people who read it hope they never need it.

Taylor Sheridan 2:36:05 I'm gonna guess 99% of the people who do read it, it... the one thing it'll do is tell you you don't ever wanna fucking go there. That's for sure, right? And typically, if someone's going there, I even say in the intro, I'm like, "If you're, if you're buying this book because you're going to prison, finish the book before you get to prison. Do not bring this book with