Joe Rogan Experience #2535 - Andrew Wilson

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 1:43

   Andrew Wilson’s nonstop debating and rejecting the “clout game”

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] Hey, Andrew, good to see you.

   4. AWAndrew Wilson0:14

      [laughs] You too, Joe. How you been?

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      Great, great, great. We're just talking about peace of mind and dealing with kooks. Is there anybody who argues online more than you do? Or you, [laughs] you might be the-

   6. AWAndrew Wilson0:23

      [laughs]

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      ... you might be the number one guy who I see in clips, like, constantly getting in arguments with people online.

   8. AWAndrew Wilson0:29

      I'm not sure that there is anybody who takes on more debates yearly, high and low profile, than I do. Um-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:35

      Yeah, I mean, even casual ones.

   10. AWAndrew Wilson0:37

       Correct.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       It's like you're always sparring. It's like you're always, uh, you know, you're always having scrimmages.

   12. AWAndrew Wilson0:43

       Well, I think that that keeps you, uh, sharp.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       For sure.

   14. AWAndrew Wilson0:45

       Keeps you sharp if you're... So I also have this rule that is, you know, there's, like, the clout game online, right? All these people wanna play the clout game.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       What i- what is this exactly, the clout game?

   16. AWAndrew Wilson0:57

       Uh, it's like, "You have... You don't have a big enough follower count for me to respond to you."

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       Yeah.

   18. AWAndrew Wilson1:02

       "You don't have a big enough audience for me to discuss things with you." You know, things like that, and it's like, I hate that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       That seems pretty silly.

   20. AWAndrew Wilson1:10

       It is silly. And some of the best debates I've ever had with guys who had, like, four followers on X, and they're like, "Let's go down to this X space and talk," and I'll hop in there with them, and I'm like, an hour later I go, "Man, that guy had a lot of good stuff to say."

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       A lot of people out there-

   22. AWAndrew Wilson1:25

       Yeah

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:25

       ... that, and oftentimes those are the ones who don't have a lot of followers, because they're not sucked into the social media b- web. They're just out there thinking and doing things-

   24. AWAndrew Wilson1:35

       100%

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       ... living their life. There are a lot of fucking interesting people out there that you never hear from, and a lot of not interesting people that you hear from constantly.

   26. AWAndrew Wilson1:42

       Sure. All the time.

3. 1:43 – 3:18

   Why politics attracts kooks: power, character assassination, and party discipline

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:43

      It's like the politician thing, you know? It's like we, we were talking about that, uh, the other day. Like, there's this lady that's running for, oh, God, something. Is she running for governor of Wisconsin? Is that what it is? And she was just talking about how Thanksgiving hurts people. [laughs] Like-

   2. AWAndrew Wilson2:01

      [laughs] What?

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:04

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I don't know her background. I think it's the same lady, at one point in time she was in a mental institution.

   4. AWAndrew Wilson2:10

      Why does this not shock me?

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:12

      She has a problem. Doesn't shock me.

   6. AWAndrew Wilson2:13

      No.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:13

      But this was the point, we were saying nobody wants to be the fucking governor, and the people that do are... There's a, a high percentage of kooks.

   8. AWAndrew Wilson2:21

      Yeah. Power attracts, um, strange people. Sometimes it attracts good people.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:25

      Yes. Occasionally.

   10. AWAndrew Wilson2:26

       But it often at, in... But often those are the people who go in and they wanna change it. Like, the, the idea that they have is, "Look, I'm trying to run for the right reasons, 'cause I actually wanna change how this works," but they're few and far between.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:38

       And they get killed. [laughs]

   12. AWAndrew Wilson2:40

       A lot of them get killed.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:42

       A lot of them. [laughs]

   14. AWAndrew Wilson2:42

       Or they get run off.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:43

       Yeah.

   16. AWAndrew Wilson2:43

       A lot of them just get involved in th- like, um, they, their normal day-to-day life, you know, from 20 years prior. Now suddenly that's coming up, you know, and they have to defend themselves against criticisms that they never would've believed that they would have to defend themselves from.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:58

       Right. Yeah.

   18. AWAndrew Wilson3:00

       And so i- character assassination, I think, takes a lot of the good actors out. They don't wanna deal with a character assassination.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:06

       Well, it seems like they want total compliance on both sides, on both parties. Total compliance with the party, and if they think that you're gonna be some outsider rebel that's gonna take over, then fuck you.

4. 3:18 – 5:56

   Universal suffrage, wedge issues, and why third parties rarely succeed

   1. AWAndrew Wilson3:18

      Well, you kinda... I think you kinda have to have that a little bit, though, because if you got universal suffrage, necessarily everything converges into a two-party system. So as suffrage expanded throughout history, you saw the emergence of parties right alongside of it, as more people became enfranchised to vote. And so-

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:37

      So you think if women couldn't vote, there wouldn't be parties?

   3. AWAndrew Wilson3:39

      There probably would still be parties. It'd probably still be a two-party system. It's just that how, how it works is that if we continuously expand suffrage, let's just say we expand it to another group of men. Now, those men have some special interest, right? So if it's not just property owners, let's say it's now, um, you know, people who live in a city. Well, they want a levy passed so that their kids can go to school, right? So they pass it on the property owners. Uh, now they can vote to hand themselves money, so now you have a wedge issue. And so you'll see parties start to form around these wedge issues, and the more you have universal suffrage, the more you end up with party politics until you have a convergence of two, and usually it's along a certain wedge issue. So the only way, in a, in a dialectic where you have two parties, Democrat and Republican, to get your, your legislation passed, is to be able to outvote the other side, right?

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:34

      Right.

   5. AWAndrew Wilson4:34

      So you kinda have to have them all in line, or else...

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:38

      That makes sense.

   7. AWAndrew Wilson4:39

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:39

      Um, and there's no room in this country at the current point in time for another party. No one would accept it.

   9. AWAndrew Wilson4:46

      [laughs] No.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:46

       We, we think about other parties like they're a goof. The Green Party, like it's a, that's a protest vote, you know?

   11. AWAndrew Wilson4:52

       Libertarian Party is too.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       Yeah, I've done that. I've done a few protest votes back in my day.

   13. AWAndrew Wilson4:56

       Yeah, I talked with, uh... I was arguing with, uh, Rex Jones the other day, it's Alex Jones' kid, about this, and I told him, I'm like, "Look, you don't have a prayer in starting a third party in time for midterms and then the presidential election that's coming up in just a couple short years. You're not gonna be able to replace this system. You're not going to be able to do that."

   14. JRJoe Rogan5:17

       They're too... Their roots go too deep. They're, they're too intertwined-

   15. AWAndrew Wilson5:21

       Well, and they have the infrastructure

   16. JRJoe Rogan5:22

       ... in power and influence.

   17. AWAndrew Wilson5:23

       Like, think about the infrastructure.

   18. JRJoe Rogan5:25

       Yeah.

   19. AWAndrew Wilson5:25

       Billions of dollars in NGO funding.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:27

       Mm-hmm.

   21. AWAndrew Wilson5:28

       All this outreach program. Just to get on a ballot in a state is often a multimillion-dollar th- uh, thing that you need to have a, a party apparatus behind.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       Yeah.

   23. AWAndrew Wilson5:38

       It's-

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:39

       I- it's kinda nuts, right? Multimillion dollars to, to spend to get a job that pays you $170,000.

   25. AWAndrew Wilson5:46

       Uh-huh. [laughs]

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:47

       [laughs] What a w- w- you think that fucking student loans are a scam. That's a crazy scam

5. 5:56 – 8:34

   Corruption as a baked-in feature: insider trading, wealth, and incentives

   1. AWAndrew Wilson5:56

      Well, I love when these guys come in, uh, for their $100,000 a year job, and then they leave and they have $25 million in the bank, you know?

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:05

      Yeah, that happens often.

   3. AWAndrew Wilson6:06

      Often.

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:06

      I wonder what happens.

   5. AWAndrew Wilson6:07

      Often.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:07

      I wonder where you get all that money.

   7. AWAndrew Wilson6:08

      Yeah. Well, they-

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:09

      How about the Ilhan Omar thing?

   9. AWAndrew Wilson6:11

      Oh yeah, she's great.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:12

       That one's, that one's wild. Like, they estimated her net worth somewhere, like, in the... It was millions. Like, 30 million or something crazy.

   11. AWAndrew Wilson6:21

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:21

       And then she said it was a error, and that it was actually, like, a lot less than that, like 100,000 or something, like, really reasonable.

   13. AWAndrew Wilson6:29

       Mm-hmm.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:30

       Like, can you imagine if your accountant was so bad, you're like, "Hey Mike, how much money am I worth?"

   15. AWAndrew Wilson6:36

       [laughs]

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:37

       And he's like, "I think you're worth 30 million." And you're like, "Fuck yeah, dude. Thinking about buying a Corvette." [laughs]

   17. AWAndrew Wilson6:44

       And you got, and you got $3,000 in the bank. [laughs]

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:47

       [laughs] And then you call Mike the next day and you say, "So, uh, 30 million?" He goes, "Actually, it was a error. You're, you're worth about 100 grand." And you're like, "Hey, Mike, I'm gonna kill you 'cause you stole $30 million from me. That doesn't make any sense."

   19. AWAndrew Wilson7:02

       100%.

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:02

       [laughs]

   21. AWAndrew Wilson7:03

       And do you think, do you think maybe she, like, strategically started moving some things with her accountant so that there was a vineyard that they owned-

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:10

       Well, how about it looked like she had $30 million

   23. AWAndrew Wilson7:10

       ... that never made a bottle of wine? Sounds right.

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:12

       Is that the case? Is that the case with one of those businesses that closed down? Listen, and pick on her, it's, it's... If you look at the Republicans and the Democrats when it comes to, uh, insider trading, it's fucking everybody. It's red, blue, red, blue, red, blue. It is... This is not a one party thing.

   25. AWAndrew Wilson7:29

       No.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:29

       This is why it's never gonna stop. They're, they're both dipping their toes in. They're both having fun.

   27. AWAndrew Wilson7:35

       You basically always have the expectation of corruption.

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:38

       Yeah.

   29. AWAndrew Wilson7:38

       So even if you put your candidates in, so you're trying to get something out of that, right? Some issue-

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:43

       Yeah
6. 8:34 – 10:50

   Multi-party systems vs legitimacy, plus the “benevolent dictator” temptation

   1. AWAndrew Wilson8:34

      But you have an alternative there that's c- that's even worse, or can at least sometimes be worse. So let's go to, like, the UK or Canada or places like this where they do round voting.

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:43

      Yeah.

   3. AWAndrew Wilson8:44

      You have more than two parties, that's true. But do you really want your president to be elected with 10% of the vote? [laughs]

   4. JRJoe Rogan8:49

      Right.

   5. AWAndrew Wilson8:49

      15% of the vote? You want your politicians to be put in with 9% of the vote?

   6. JRJoe Rogan8:54

      Oi.

   7. AWAndrew Wilson8:54

      Because that can happen.

   8. JRJoe Rogan8:56

      Yeah, that's crazy.

   9. AWAndrew Wilson8:56

      You know? Yeah, between these rounds.

   10. JRJoe Rogan8:58

       [laughs]

   11. AWAndrew Wilson8:58

       And so you think about it and you go, "This two-party system sucks." But then you look at other places that have multiple parties and they do their rounds of voting-

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:05

       Mm-hmm

   13. AWAndrew Wilson9:06

       ... and you're like, "Wait, so you could get elected with only 14% of the vote?" So everybody else hates you. [laughs]

   14. JRJoe Rogan9:12

       Yeah. There's the weird argument of the benevolent dictator. I'm sure you've heard this argument, but that a society is best run by a benevolent dictator, someone who really truly has ultimate power but actually cares.

   15. AWAndrew Wilson9:24

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan9:24

       A good person that cares about the people, that really just wants things to be reasonable and have a working meritocracy and have a working economy and have working education and have everything work correctly and weed out all of the cor- fraud and corruption because he's a king and he can just, like-

   17. AWAndrew Wilson9:41

       He can just do it

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:41

       ... do it. Whatever the fuck you want, you know? Like, look, I'm... I'd have only been to Dubai one time, um, because we, uh, we had a UFC over there and I had to go to the weigh-ins. The weigh-ins were in Dubai. Saw a lot of fucking Ferraris and Lamborghinis in 10 minutes. But from what I hear, y- it's the most safe place on Earth, like, literally. Like, there's-

   19. AWAndrew Wilson10:02

       Like Romania under Vlad? [laughs]

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:03

       Yeah. Like, what would you say?

   21. AWAndrew Wilson10:04

       Like Romania under Vlad the Impaler?

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:06

       [laughs] I don't think it's that bad.

   23. AWAndrew Wilson10:08

       They say... How, how can you, how can you hang gold in the street? And he goes, "Well, look around."

   24. JRJoe Rogan10:11

       Yeah. Wow.

   25. AWAndrew Wilson10:12

       There's a bunch of people impaled everywhere. [laughs] He would still do them-

   26. JRJoe Rogan10:15

       He would do them in designs

   27. AWAndrew Wilson10:16

       ... yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan10:16

       He would do them in geometric patterns-

   29. AWAndrew Wilson10:18

       Uh-huh

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:18

       ... so you would realize he's being creative with impaling people.
7. 10:50 – 15:09

   Order vs freedom: Dubai’s strict policing and the (jokingly serious) return of dueling

   1. JRJoe Rogan10:50

      Yeah, Dubai, like, if they catch you with a bag of weed, you're going to jail for the rest of your life or they'll kill you.

   2. AWAndrew Wilson10:55

      Yeah, you're done.

   3. JRJoe Rogan10:56

      Yeah, they've, they have crazy laws. There was one guy, I think it was Dubai, who he... I think he had, like, marijuana seeds in the sole of his shoes or something like that. Like, he had stepped on a marijuana seed maybe in his apartment-

   4. AWAndrew Wilson11:14

      Yeah

   5. JRJoe Rogan11:14

      ... and he was... He didn't have any drugs on him, nothing, and they, they put him in jail for a long time, man. I forget... This was a few years back, but it was a crazy case. And there was another lady who got arrested. I forget what happened, but she... A lady or a guy tested positive for poppy because she had poppy seed bagel. I don't know if you know this, but if you're testing for drugs and you eat a poppy seed bagel-

   6. AWAndrew Wilson11:40

      Right

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:40

      ... you could pop for heroin.

   8. AWAndrew Wilson11:41

      Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that. But doesn't... With modern tests, isn't it a little bit better now?

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:46

      I hope so. I don't know. 2008, this is.

   10. AWAndrew Wilson11:49

       Oh.

   11. JRJoe Rogan11:49

       A British traveler in Dubai was stopped at the airport.

   12. AWAndrew Wilson11:51

       Oof.

   13. JRJoe Rogan11:52

       Lab found 0.003 grams of cannabis in his shoe sole. Holy fuck

   14. AWAndrew Wilson11:58

       Yeah, that's crazy

   15. JRJoe Rogan11:59

       That's crazy. He received a mandatory four-year sentence under the UAE's strict drug laws-

   16. AWAndrew Wilson12:07

       He was later released early

   17. JRJoe Rogan12:09

       ... though he was later released early.

   18. AWAndrew Wilson12:10

       So-

   19. JRJoe Rogan12:10

       How, how early's early? [laughs]

   20. AWAndrew Wilson12:11

       So the British government came in and tried to barter him out of there, I'm guessing.

   21. JRJoe Rogan12:14

       I guess. Or, uh, the, the whole world must have been so outraged. I mean, at a certain point in time they have to say, "We're, we, we run the risk of never having tourists visit us again."

   22. AWAndrew Wilson12:25

       Right

   23. JRJoe Rogan12:25

       And Dubai's a very tourist-central place.

   24. AWAndrew Wilson12:27

       Sure.

   25. JRJoe Rogan12:28

       But I have a, a friend who moved over there a while back. He moved back to America recently, but he moved over there and he was, uh, he was like, "Dude, it's just safe for me. You know? I don't worry if I go out, you know, someone's gonna..." Like, he's big Black guy. He's like, "I don't wanna get shot." He goes, "I, I worry if I go out." He goes, "Over here there's nothing like that. There's no crime." He goes, "Everything's nice, everything's clean. You could r- leave a Rolex on the street, they'll pick it up and turn it into the cops. Like no, nobody steals nothing over there."

   26. AWAndrew Wilson12:55

       But there's a trade-off for that, right? [laughs]

   27. JRJoe Rogan12:57

       [laughs]

   28. AWAndrew Wilson12:57

       Bit of a trade-off for that

   29. JRJoe Rogan12:58

       "Let me show you my geometric patterns-

   30. AWAndrew Wilson13:00

       Yeah
8. 15:09 – 20:08

   Autonomous zones, news overload, and why hot takes drive people insane

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      Yeah. Well, did you see what just happened in Wisconsin where they had the, uh, they had their own autonomous zone?

   2. AWAndrew Wilson15:14

      Oh, yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:14

      It just got broken up today by the cops.

   4. AWAndrew Wilson15:16

      I didn't see it got broken up.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:17

      It got broken up today. Yeah. See if you can find it, Jamie. Uh, there was video footage, just fucking army of cops came in, arrested everybody. It's spray paint all over the streets and garbage everywhere.

   6. AWAndrew Wilson15:29

      Why do people just get to declare autonomous zones on public...

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:31

      [laughs]

   8. AWAndrew Wilson15:31

      Like, what is... Remember Chaz and Chop?

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:34

      Yes. I remember.

   10. AWAndrew Wilson15:35

       They're just, "Oh, we have it decl- we, we've just declared this an, an autonomous zone. Sorry."

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:39

       Madison officials clear Willy Street encampment. Police officers arrest protesters who resist at Corey Ruiz memorial site. I do not know this Corey Ruiz story.

   12. AWAndrew Wilson15:51

       Uh, the Corey Rui- Ruiz memorial. So was it something ICE related perhaps?

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:55

       I think that's what this is, right?

   14. AWAndrew Wilson15:57

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:58

       Is that what this is, Jamie?

   16. SPSpeaker15:59

       I have no idea.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:01

       Um, did something happen? Something happened. Someone got shot, right? You don't know about it either?

   18. SPSpeaker16:07

       Nope.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:08

       See, that's the problem. There's so many fucking things in the news that it's impossible, unless you're a maniac-

   20. AWAndrew Wilson16:13

       Yeah

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:13

       ... and you're just online all day, it's impossible to know exactly what's going on. You take a couple days off and smell the roses, and you get back online, "How, how come you haven't commented on... What, what, what is it?"

   22. AWAndrew Wilson16:24

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:24

       "I don't even know what you're talking about."

   24. AWAndrew Wilson16:24

       You gotta, you gotta catch up for four days for one day. [laughs]

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:27

       Yeah. Also, like, what... Hot take, maybe you shouldn't have a hot take on everything. Maybe some things you need to, like, let it play out in the news. Like, let people dissect it.

   26. AWAndrew Wilson16:37

       See, now that, I wish that that was a message that more people got.

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:42

       Yeah.

   28. AWAndrew Wilson16:42

       That the idea that you don't have to rush immediately out there to tell everybody your latest, hottest take, which is oftentimes, by the way, stupid.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:50

       Yeah, on page. [laughs]

   30. AWAndrew Wilson16:50

       It's often a stupid take 'cause you have no information, right? But you're gonna rush out there. You're gonna get those views and clicks quick-
9. 20:08 – 29:07

   Corey Ruiz shooting: blurry viral video, lethal force questions, and body-cam absence

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:08

      information. Check it out. This ad and the products being advertised are intended for a United States audience. And you have to come to the recognat- recognition that some of these fake ones were planted to make the real ones look stupid. This-

   2. AWAndrew Wilson20:24

      Planting its own

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:24

      Yes. This is a common strategy. What did, what was it, Jamie? You pulled it up. Uh, "Controversy centers on whether Madison Police needed to use deadly force against 38-year-old Cory Ruiz, a Black man, during a July 2026 arrest, and on the lack of body camera footage," oh, "conflicting narratives about the threat he pos- posed, and the broader concerns about racialized policing. Police responded to reports of a man allegedly looking into parked vehicles and stealing bicycles. During the attempted arrest by four officers, a taser was deployed but reportedly failed. Police say Ruiz pulled a knife and injured an officer, after which that officer shot and killed him. Cell phone video recorded by a bystander shows part of the struggle and shooting a- and quickly went viral, triggering protests and public outcry. Use of deadly force versus alternatives. Community members and Ruiz's family questioned why lethal force was used when multiple officers were already restraining him on the ground and a taser had been deployed, arguing that he did not deserve to be shot to death in the street. Lack of body cameras. None of the officers involved were wearing body-worn cameras, so the only visual recording is bystander video, which fuels distrust and demands for more accountability and measures and technology." We need more flock cameras.

   4. AWAndrew Wilson21:43

      [laughs]

   5. JRJoe Rogan21:43

      "Conflicting narratives about threat. Police emphasized that Ruiz stabbed or injured an officer with a knife, framing the shooting as a response to an immediate threat. Critics and loved ones question whether the threat justified shooting a restrained man and whether de-escalation was properly used." Well, first of all, if he really did stab a police officer, if he's stabbing a police officer, like they are supposed to shoot him. That is... You, you can't take, you can't say, "Someone's stabbing me, I hope they're only hurting me."

   6. AWAndrew Wilson22:14

      Yeah, right. Or w- how do you assess the amount of force that you can use back when someone's stabbing you?

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:20

      Find the video, I guess.

   8. AWAndrew Wilson22:20

      I think that that's responding with lethal force.

   9. JRJoe Rogan22:22

      What did you say, Jamie?

   10. SPSpeaker22:23

       Let's try to find the video before we were discussing a little bit.

   11. JRJoe Rogan22:24

       Yeah, let's find the video. But it's also, um, how big is this guy? If he's got all these people, and are these like a bunch of like shitty untrained police officers who don't know any martial arts? When you say he's restrained-

   12. AWAndrew Wilson22:36

       [laughs]

   13. JRJoe Rogan22:36

       ... like how restrained was he? You know what I mean? Like if you got two dudes that are, uh, built like Tony Hinchcliffe and they're trying to hold me back from fucking somebody up-

   14. AWAndrew Wilson22:45

       Right, it's not gonna do nothing

   15. JRJoe Rogan22:46

       ... that, you know what I mean?

   16. AWAndrew Wilson22:47

       Yeah

   17. JRJoe Rogan22:47

       It's like how big is this guy? What, what happened? Was he the one that was stealing things or was he, uh, wrongly accused? Does he have a record? Is he a, a violent person? I don't know anything. Is he a complete innocent bystander? This is the video? "Video contains graphic content." Okay.

   18. SPSpeaker23:08

       Oh, that was-

   19. JRJoe Rogan23:09

       That's it?

   20. SPSpeaker23:10

       That's all that one showed. Basically

   21. JRJoe Rogan23:12

       So there's probably multiple videos?

   22. AWAndrew Wilson23:13

       Yeah

   23. JRJoe Rogan23:15

       Yeah. The thing about the tasers is it's fucking weird, man. Tasers on some people, they lock them up and they fucking eh, and they fall down. I've seen guys just scream and rip those things off their chest like it's nothing.

   24. AWAndrew Wilson23:30

       Well, sometimes those probes don't penetrate either, right?

   25. JRJoe Rogan23:32

       Right. I think some of those tasers are bunk, too.

   26. AWAndrew Wilson23:35

       100%.

   27. JRJoe Rogan23:36

       Some of the tasers are just shit equipment. I mean, that's the only thing that makes sense. So these guys look like-

   28. AWAndrew Wilson23:42

       Did you ever play with one of the handhelds when you were a kid?

   29. JRJoe Rogan23:44

       No. [laughs]

   30. AWAndrew Wilson23:44

       Somebody always had a handheld somewhere.
10. 29:07 – 32:17

    Police PTSD, child neglect cases, and the grim realities of law enforcement

    1. JRJoe Rogan29:07

       I've seen a lot of crazy body cam footage where a guy is pulling someone over, and they're just having a casual conversation. All of a sudden, the guy pulls a gun out and starts shooting them.

    2. AWAndrew Wilson29:16

       Yep.

    3. JRJoe Rogan29:16

       I've seen a bunch of those.

    4. AWAndrew Wilson29:18

       Tons.

    5. JRJoe Rogan29:19

       These-

    6. AWAndrew Wilson29:19

       Especially the routine traffic stops-

    7. JRJoe Rogan29:20

       Yeah

    8. AWAndrew Wilson29:21

       ... happens constantly.

    9. JRJoe Rogan29:22

       You have to always think, like, if you're in an altercation with a cop, these people are always worried that this is where their life is gonna end. They're always worried that they're gonna get shot. They're al- they, they've seen those videos, too. So if you start shit with a cop and he freaks out and goes the wrong direction, like, you're probably dealing with a guy who's got some serious PTSD.

    10. AWAndrew Wilson29:44

        Yeah, he's seen it before, or his buddy's gotten, gotten plugged right there.

    11. JRJoe Rogan29:48

        They've all seen it.

    12. AWAndrew Wilson29:49

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan29:49

        I have a friend who, uh, spent a lot of times overseas, uh, deployed, and he's in combat, and he said he saw way more as an Austin cop. Like, way more fucked up things, and all the time. Whereas, you know, you're not at war all the time. You're not in firefights all the time. He goes like, "It's like every day. Every day you're seeing something fucked up that you can't unsee."

    14. AWAndrew Wilson30:09

        And you see it with kids.

    15. JRJoe Rogan30:11

        Yeah.

    16. AWAndrew Wilson30:11

        Things you gotta deal with with kids.

    17. JRJoe Rogan30:12

        Yeah.

    18. AWAndrew Wilson30:12

        Things you gotta deal with with-

    19. JRJoe Rogan30:14

        Yeah

    20. AWAndrew Wilson30:14

        ... all sorts of things.

    21. JRJoe Rogan30:15

        All sorts of things.

    22. AWAndrew Wilson30:16

        And it's like, that is not a fun job.

    23. JRJoe Rogan30:17

        No, no, it's not.

    24. AWAndrew Wilson30:18

        And I would not want it at all. So I always do tend to cut law enforcement quite a bit of grace until I hear what their side of things are.

    25. JRJoe Rogan30:26

        Yeah, I do too.

    26. AWAndrew Wilson30:27

        Because that is a, that is a brutal job to have. I have... Buddy of mine's a deputy sheriff, and I talk with him, and he's policing a small area, and he's like, it's the stuff with the kids that gets him.

    27. JRJoe Rogan30:37

        [sighs]

    28. AWAndrew Wilson30:38

        Yeah, exactly.

    29. JRJoe Rogan30:39

        [sighs]

    30. AWAndrew Wilson30:39

        He's like, "Just that's the stuff." He'll go, you know, he would go into a junkie's house. There's a two-year-old there, hasn't eaten in four days.
11. 32:17 – 40:29

    Surveillance vs the nanny state: Flock cameras, corruption risk, and moral legislation

    1. JRJoe Rogan32:17

       I mean, this is the flock camera question. You know, do you want Big Brother looking at your license plate everywhere you go? Well, listen, if someone shoots up... Like, that was... This is a argument that Marc Andreessen made on this podcast. When he had come here, right after he, uh... Right before he had come here, there was a shooting in Austin where some kids just randomly started shooting at people, and then they, uh, couldn't find them in Austin, but as soon as they left Austin city limits, they went into an area that had flock cameras, and they got them like that. So this was his argument for the benefits of flock cameras.

    2. AWAndrew Wilson32:52

       But-

    3. JRJoe Rogan32:52

       I do believe he invests in flock cameras.

    4. AWAndrew Wilson32:53

       Well, sure. I mean, but you can make that argument with CCTV as well. You can make-

    5. JRJoe Rogan32:57

       True

    6. AWAndrew Wilson32:57

       ... that argument with-

    7. JRJoe Rogan32:58

       Everyone wear a chip.

    8. AWAndrew Wilson32:59

       Yeah. With-

    9. JRJoe Rogan32:59

       Everyone wear a body camera.

    10. AWAndrew Wilson33:00

        Sure.

    11. JRJoe Rogan33:00

        Yeah.

    12. AWAndrew Wilson33:01

        The, the thing is, is you have to be cautious with the idea of the nanny state for another reason besides just protecting people's independent privacy. It's because those things often become money wells-

    13. JRJoe Rogan33:11

        Oh, yeah

    14. AWAndrew Wilson33:11

        ... for people to steal from the public trough.

    15. JRJoe Rogan33:14

        Oh, yeah.

    16. AWAndrew Wilson33:15

        And that is the major issue, right? So some of the w- some of the reasons I tend, even though I'm on the paleo-Christian side, to lean towards a lot of the freedom elements over the naught is because of the corruption, the corruption which happens oftentimes when you try to curtail too much, right?

    17. JRJoe Rogan33:33

        Right.

    18. AWAndrew Wilson33:33

        That in and of itself creates a system, and that system becomes ripe for corruption. Let me give you an example, flock cams. Who are we awarding the contracts to?

    19. JRJoe Rogan33:41

        Right.

    20. AWAndrew Wilson33:42

        And who's gonna be, uh, servicing those contracts? Who's going to be doing these things, right? That's where you start to see, uh, with new systems, there becomes new corruption. So there has to be a way to curtail, but there's some things that are pretty obvious that you could curtail, and who cares if people bitch about it? Like, let's take, uh, online prostitution, for instance. Okay, great. It's illegal to do OnlyFans, let's say. Who... How the hell could that possibly be bad for soc- like, what is [laughs] what is that going to do that's just, "Oh, we gotta have that though, Andrew. We gotta, we gotta have that"? It's like, I don't think we do. I don't think it's necessary, and if we got rid of it, like, who cares? You know? It seems like it would just be a massive net positive for every human being if that was just done away with altogether. And it's like, what... The, the systems that come in too, though, for policing it are prone to corruption, so you gotta be cautious about it.

    21. JRJoe Rogan34:36

        Right.

    22. AWAndrew Wilson34:37

        Right? You gotta be cautious about it.

    23. JRJoe Rogan34:39

        Also, I just don't like people telling people what to do. Even if they shouldn't be doing it, I don't like it. I, I, I think-

    24. AWAndrew Wilson34:45

        I, I mean, to an extent though, right? Like, if they're heroin addicts, you're gonna be like, "Nah, we gotta s- can't be-"

    25. JRJoe Rogan34:49

        Well, even that. Like, I don't think you should be a heroin addict, but I don't think I should be the one to tell you not to do heroin. I don't... 'Cause I think it's a slippery slope. And then it's, "Don't smoke cigarettes," and then it's, "'Cause cigarettes are killing you."

    26. AWAndrew Wilson35:02

        Mm-hmm.

    27. JRJoe Rogan35:03

        And then it's, "Don't drink whiskey, 'cause you could be a drunk driver and kill a family of five." Like, it's all the same shit. It's like, I don't-

    28. AWAndrew Wilson35:09

        But do you think that all those have kinda the same impact on society ultimately?

    29. JRJoe Rogan35:13

        Well, the heroin thing is a weird one because, um... [coughs]

    30. AWAndrew Wilson35:18

        'Cause, like, the argument I make would be, like, the incest argument. It'd be like, look, that's outlawed for a good reason, but what if you have two people who are totally sterile? Like, they can't have kids, right?
12. 40:29 – 44:08

    Bots, foreign influence, and coordinated narrative ops on X

    1. AWAndrew Wilson40:29

       Can I ask you a question?

    2. JRJoe Rogan40:30

       "Let me get out of here." Yeah, sure.

    3. AWAndrew Wilson40:30

       If you went into to X tomorrow, let's say, and there was an option there where you could select it and it's like, "US accounts only," that's all you could see, do you think that 90% of the traffic for people would go away?

    4. JRJoe Rogan40:44

       A giant percentage.

    5. AWAndrew Wilson40:45

       Huge percentage, right?

    6. JRJoe Rogan40:46

       Huge percentage is people being manipulated into arguments. Um, it is a strategy.

    7. AWAndrew Wilson40:51

       By foreign assets, right?

    8. JRJoe Rogan40:51

       By foreign assets.

    9. AWAndrew Wilson40:52

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan40:52

        It is a strategy. It is real. This is not tinfoil hat shit. Um, we've brought this up multiple times on the podcast, but I'll bring it up again just for the sake of this. There was an FBI analyst who, uh, took a look at Twitter when Elon was buying it, and he estimated that 80% of the traffic is bots.

    11. AWAndrew Wilson41:10

        This doesn't surprise me. Remember, YouTube did an internal audit, and when they did their internal audit, this was a few years back in when I, when Susan still ran it, I believe. They did an internal audit and found out that most of the people that they had on YouTube were bots, and they did a great purge.

    12. JRJoe Rogan41:27

        Wow.

    13. AWAndrew Wilson41:27

        Right? That's where the, that whole dead internet theory and all that-

    14. JRJoe Rogan41:30

        Mm-hmm

    15. AWAndrew Wilson41:30

        ... really started to pick up traction, was that, hey, look, a lot of this stuff is bots, foreign accounts, people who are manipulating US, uh, elections. They're, uh, manipulating, uh, various US interests, and this is happening all over the place.

    16. JRJoe Rogan41:47

        Yeah.

    17. AWAndrew Wilson41:48

        Right now you have progressives, uh, who are funded by ActBlue, right? And I've proven this. We've, we traced all their money. It's progressives funded by ActBlue who are pushing the same narrative that, like, Candace Owens and others are pushing on the idea of, uh, Charlie Kirk's death and the conspiracy around that. So you have-

    18. JRJoe Rogan42:08

        So they're f- absolutely being paid to push this?

    19. AWAndrew Wilson42:11

        Well, th- their stated mission, this particular progressive group, their stated mission was to take down TPUSA. I'll tell you a story. This is the tale of all tales. [laughs]

    20. JRJoe Rogan42:20

        Okay.

    21. AWAndrew Wilson42:21

        So, uh, Charlie Kirk has this huge outreach program that's happening through TPUSA on these college campuses. He's got viral clip after viral clip after viral clip, and they are going wild. He's going campus to campus. He's doing his thing. He's being dogged by a progressive organization. This progressive organization shows up at almost all of these TPUSA events with the stated mission of trying to create a counter movement to what TPUSA is doing. Now, the woman who heads this particular organization received millions of dollars from ActBlue and other progressive organizations for this stated mission. That same woman, right this second, works with other op ex accounts to push the messaging that Charlie Kirk was assassinated by his own TPUSA insiders in order to push that narrative forward, because the stated goal still from that organization is to destroy TPUSA.

    22. JRJoe Rogan43:18

        So they've... How do we know that they've done this? Is, are there emails that have been found? Like, how do-

    23. AWAndrew Wilson43:23

        Well, the stated goal of this particular person-

    24. JRJoe Rogan43:27

        Is to take down-

    25. AWAndrew Wilson43:28

        Is to take down-

    26. JRJoe Rogan43:29

        Turning Point

    27. AWAndrew Wilson43:29

        ... TPUSA.

    28. JRJoe Rogan43:30

        Right.

    29. AWAndrew Wilson43:30

        She's very open about that, and then the way that you know that they are talking to these other accounts is because they do it publicly. Those public accounts will talk to this account, right?

    30. JRJoe Rogan43:41

        Mm-hmm.
13. 44:08 – 1:22:44

    Charlie Kirk assassination conspiracies: Israel claims, evidence disputes, and “platforming” fights

    1. JRJoe Rogan44:08

       So how do they think that his organization did this? That they convinced Tyler Robinson to do it, or that they think someone else did it?

    2. AWAndrew Wilson44:17

       They don't beli- I don't think that the progressive organization does believe that TPUSA did this. I think that what they want to do-

    3. JRJoe Rogan44:24

       Oh, no, I'm-

    4. AWAndrew Wilson44:24

       Is-

    5. JRJoe Rogan44:24

       I understand that

    6. AWAndrew Wilson44:25

       ... yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan44:25

       But, I mean, what are they trying to say?

    8. AWAndrew Wilson44:27

       Oh, well, the... Here's what the theory is. So take, uh, Ian Carroll, within 24 hours after Kirk's death blames Israel. Within 24 hours, he says, "Israel killed Kirk." That was his tweet, went mega viral. What the conspiracy is on that side is that Israel, along with Erika Kirk and TPUSA insiders, got together with, uh, elements of the US government to murder Charlie Kirk because he was going to leave the, quote, "pro-Israel cause." That's what the theory is.

    9. JRJoe Rogan45:00

       Right.

    10. AWAndrew Wilson45:01

        And that they, he was either murdered, some of them say with a microphone exploding, some of them say with a, uh... There was a second shooter, and Robinson's a patsy. It all depends on which theorist you're talking to, but they all work together in the same unison from a single camp, which is interesting.

    11. JRJoe Rogan45:19

        Well, a lot of people had-

    12. AWAndrew Wilson45:22

        [coughs]

    13. JRJoe Rogan45:22

        ... um, takes on the shooting, and the microphone one was the weirdest one to me. Um, it's weird because there's no... Like, yeah, the shirt is moving, but also a bullet is going, like, how many feet per second whizzing through the air? Like, do you understand?

    14. AWAndrew Wilson45:41

        It splits air.

    15. JRJoe Rogan45:41

        Yeah. The, people-

    16. AWAndrew Wilson45:41

        So where's the air gonna go?

    17. JRJoe Rogan45:42

        That, people don't understand that.

    18. AWAndrew Wilson45:44

        You know what got me, though?

    19. JRJoe Rogan45:45

        What?

    20. AWAndrew Wilson45:45

        So I went back and looked, because they say that it's the same explosive which was used inside the Israeli pagers. Now, that was very real.

    21. JRJoe Rogan45:51

        That's-

    22. AWAndrew Wilson45:51

        Israel sent these pagers all over

    23. JRJoe Rogan45:52

        ... but that would be an explosion. That's my take. My point is, like, there's no indication that there's an ignition.

    24. AWAndrew Wilson45:59

        There, it's worse. There's no smoke.

    25. JRJoe Rogan46:01

        Right.

    26. AWAndrew Wilson46:01

        There's no... Now, all the-

    27. JRJoe Rogan46:02

        Yeah

    28. AWAndrew Wilson46:02

        ... Israeli, if you pull up, if you pulled up right now one of these Israeli pagers going, 'cause there's tons of videos of them.

    29. JRJoe Rogan46:08

        Oh, really?

    30. AWAndrew Wilson46:08

        Oh, yeah.
14. 1:22:44 – 1:31:30

    AI realism and risk: bot economies, “plateau” arguments, jailbreak fears, and disembodied intelligence

    1. AWAndrew Wilson1:22:44

       Well, you know, YouTube started cracking down on AI accounts.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:22:47

       Did they?

    3. AWAndrew Wilson1:22:48

       So, yeah. So if you have an AI account, like, there was a big craze that was going on for a while where people would just make, like, an AI character, and then the AI character would disseminate information, things like this. YouTube started to crack down on that and said no more of the AI dissemination. There has to be real people back there.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:23:04

       Mm.

    5. AWAndrew Wilson1:23:05

       Now, interestingly enough, there's been a lot of guys coming out saying that AI's a massive bubble, and that all of it is formulated around the idea of ChatGPT and Grok and, you know, other things like this which are interactive, but that AI tech itself has basically plateaued. It's not very innovative.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:23:22

       Mm-hmm.

    7. AWAndrew Wilson1:23:23

       In other words, where are our AI movies? They're nowhere. Where are our AI... You know, I thought the AI music was supposed to be super sophisticated, but I can still tell when it's an AI song. That there's been this huge plateau with it, and that all that investment capital is actually only coming in based around the success of ChatGPT, Grok, and other interactive AI reference machines. But that the technology of AI itself is not doing so hot in the market.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:23:49

       Mm.

    9. AWAndrew Wilson1:23:50

       And so it's creating this massive bubble. [laughs] And I think that that's interesting because it really hasn't been that innovative. I thought it was supposed to be making video games now, and it was supposed to be, you know, uh, s- doing all the source code. It was sup- we were supposed to have the AI Hollywood movies. We were supposed to have voice software that was indistinguishable, and we actually don't.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:24:09

        Well, we're getting closer and closer every day. It's astonishing how much it improves. And we're, we're getting right now the consumer versions of these products, whereas the, the versions that they're working on right now, some of them are fucking shocking.

    11. AWAndrew Wilson1:24:22

        That's true. I will agree-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:24:23

        Uh, we saw-

    13. AWAndrew Wilson1:24:24

        ... that there's, there's-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:24:25

        ... Claude get out of its sandbox

    15. AWAndrew Wilson1:24:26

        ... yeah, there has been some gradual, uh, changes made in that arena. There's no doubt about that. But the huge jumps that we had at the release of GPT-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:24:36

        Mm-hmm

    17. AWAndrew Wilson1:24:37

        ... have massively slowed, and that's what a lot of these tech guys are talking about.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:24:40

        Interesting. Well, they're, they're slowed, but they're still moving like a fucking freight train. It's, it's spooky. It's spooky what they can do now. The, the most recent jailbreak one when they got out of the sandbox, was that Claude, Jamie?

    19. SPSpeaker1:24:53

        Yeah, sure.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:24:54

        Um, where it got access to the internet-

    21. AWAndrew Wilson1:24:57

        Mm-hmm

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:24:57

        ... and wasn't supposed to be able to do that, and figured out some sort of an exploit and, you know, wrote letters to itself. There's, they, they do, they're doing weird shit, man. They're doing weird shit that they don't really understand how these things are figuring out how to do these things, or why. Like, what is their motivation? Is this programmed into them, or are they just, they have inherent motivation? Have, have they developed an understanding of how we behave, so they're emulating how we behave, but with a hyper-intelligent scale and access to the literal entire internet?

    23. AWAndrew Wilson1:25:28

        Well, it's, it's funny. I, I, when I use, like, Grok or ChatGPT, I talk to it a lot about philosophy because it's super useful for pulling up and running arguments by and things like this. Um, but it can also lead you astray because it's trained specifically to be a people pleaser.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:25:45

        Right.

    25. AWAndrew Wilson1:25:45

        So you can easily give it arguments that it'll agree with that are just, like, [laughs] not true at all.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:25:49

        Great job, Andrew.

    27. AWAndrew Wilson1:25:50

        Yeah, great dude. You're fantastic.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:25:51

        You're the best.

    29. AWAndrew Wilson1:25:52

        You're the best, you know? Yeah, you're the best.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:25:53

        Yeah.
15. 1:31:30 – 2:25:31

    Kids, phones, predators, MAP rhetoric, trans medicalization, and the need for moral frameworks

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:31:30

       Yeah.

    2. AWAndrew Wilson1:31:31

       Um, I think a lot of people would try to do that, and so I am glad that people are at least attempting to restrain how much of this technology is being released and how overwhelming it is. Like, we were talk- I was talking with my wife the other day, just the idea of the smartphone. I think I discussed this with you briefly last time I was here. Just kids' access to smartphones, it rewires their brain, right?

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:31:53

       Mm-hmm.

    4. AWAndrew Wilson1:31:54

       Rewires how they think. It, it's, uh, it's actually kind of dangerous to give them smartphones in, in many ways. And there was no real halt on that technology. When that technology for the smartphones came out, I don't remember any public service broadcast of like, "Don't give your kids smartphones." [laughs]

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:32:10

       I don't think they knew.

    6. AWAndrew Wilson1:32:11

       They didn't know, exactly.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:32:12

       Yeah.

    8. AWAndrew Wilson1:32:12

       So there was no move to restrain any of that technology, and maybe there should be. Maybe there should be a little bit more of a push to restrain some of this tech.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:32:20

       Well, there certainly should be a push to educate people about how powerful it is, and suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety, all of it ramps up around 2012. All of it ramps up with ubiquitous social media use and when kids are growing up with phones.

    10. AWAndrew Wilson1:32:37

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:32:37

        And it fucks with their heads, man-

    12. AWAndrew Wilson1:32:39

        Yeah

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:32:39

        ... in a big way.

    14. AWAndrew Wilson1:32:40

        1,000% when you sit at a table and you're texting the guy next to you. [laughs]

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:32:43

        I know, it's nuts.

    16. AWAndrew Wilson1:32:44

        That is, that is actually weird to me, by the way.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:32:46

        It's weird.

    18. AWAndrew Wilson1:32:46

        That is weird to me. Um, it's just as weird as when I drive down the street and try to explain to my kids, there used to be, if we went through a neighborhood like this, there would be kids everywhere, and they'd be in the street playing hockey, they'd be on the side of the road. They'd be everywhere. Now we go through, nothing. It's humble weeds.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:33:01

        10 years from now, they're gonna have a cable hooked to the back of their head. They're just gonna-

    20. AWAndrew Wilson1:33:04

        [laughs] Were you like-

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:33:05

        ... plug in and hop on the dragon, fly through the universe.

    22. AWAndrew Wilson1:33:08

        Yeah. Were you, like, uh, designed to be a wild human? 'Cause if, if I remember correctly, and I do, my parents just threw me out. They were like, "Get outta here. Go play."

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:33:17

        Yeah.

    24. AWAndrew Wilson1:33:17

        "Get out of the house immediately and go play."

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:33:18

        That was normal. You would go play with the kids in the neighborhood.

    26. AWAndrew Wilson1:33:21

        And we would go, like, steal the drinks out of their fridge with them or they would come over-

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:33:24

        Go to the woods, make a fort.

    28. AWAndrew Wilson1:33:25

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:33:26

        Yeah. Normal stuff.

    30. AWAndrew Wilson1:33:27

        Light fires.

Episode duration: 2:47:52