Joe Rogan Experience #2537 - David Sinclair

1. 0:02 – 5:07

   Catching up with Sinclair: Australia, ego, and longevity going mainstream

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat rock music] Mr. Sinclair, good to see you again.

   2. DSDavid Sinclair0:16

      Dr. Sinclair?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Doctor.

   4. DSDavid Sinclair0:17

      I'm kidding. You can call me David.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      It's better that way, right? Yeah, do you ever introduce yourself as Doctor?

   6. DSDavid Sinclair0:21

      Never.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      Yeah, it's a kind of a, it's a weird thing, because you're allowed to.

   8. DSDavid Sinclair0:26

      Well, I'm actually a Sir David from Australia, but, uh-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:28

      Are you a Sir?

   10. DSDavid Sinclair0:29

       Yeah, but I, I... It's kind of a joke. I don't really-

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       What does that, how does that work out? Did you get knighted or some shit? [laughs]

   12. DSDavid Sinclair0:35

       The Queen's representative gave me some Australian version of a knighthood.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       [laughs]

   14. DSDavid Sinclair0:39

       But, uh, it, I get to put AO at the end of my name.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       AO?

   16. DSDavid Sinclair0:44

       Yeah, Order of Australia.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       Oh.

   18. DSDavid Sinclair0:46

       But it actually makes no difference to my life, so it's just an extra couple of letters.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       It's kinda cool. I mean-

   20. DSDavid Sinclair0:52

       Look, I'm, I'm honored for sure, but, uh, it, uh, it's just a joke. You don't need to call me that.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       Well, it's kinda anybody, Sir. You meet a guy at the gas station, "How you doing, Sir?" You know what I mean?

   22. DSDavid Sinclair1:03

       'Cause that is like, "Wow, how does he know?"

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       Right. You don't say, "How you doing, King?"

   24. DSDavid Sinclair1:08

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       Right?

   26. DSDavid Sinclair1:09

       Well, I'm David.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       [laughs]

   28. DSDavid Sinclair1:09

       I'm Australian, so in Australia, if you have any ego, you get beaten up in the playgrounds.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       That is true. Australia's the land of the tall poppy syndrome. They don't, they don't fuck around. They don't like you getting a big head in Australia.

   30. DSDavid Sinclair1:23

       That is, that is true. Um, I'd like to go back there though, because it's an ev- a level playing field. Nobody cares who you are.
2. 5:07 – 6:46

   Aging reversal enters human trials: the big claim and why it’s no longer heresy

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:07

      Well, I, well, I definitely wanna do that, but I, I also wanna talk about, like, what, uh, what is the current state of science, uh, as applied to longevity treatments? Like, I, 'cause I know that there's some pretty groundbreaking stuff that's in the pipeline right now.

   2. DSDavid Sinclair5:25

      Yeah. It's, uh, so since 2019, a lot of what we talked about has come true, which is the amazing thing. [clears throat] We, uh, were speculating in 2019 that we could potentially reverse aging, and that was a sin to say that as a scientist publicly in those days. I put it in the book. Um, and it's ac- it's actually come true since then, uh, certainly for the lab, uh, for mice, monkeys. And now we have a human clinical trial. The first potential human age reversal technology is in people right now.

   3. JRJoe Rogan5:58

      Listen, it completely seems logical. The idea that that at one point in time would've been heresy in science to discuss it, so it, that seems crazy. Like, if we, i- if people get old and we understand the mechanism, why couldn't we reverse it?

   4. DSDavid Sinclair6:13

      Well, I think for a long time we had to accept it, um, in the way that cancer used to be accepted 200 years ago probably, that there was nothing-

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:19

      Hmm

   6. DSDavid Sinclair6:20

      ... you could do about it. And then my colleagues and I found that aging has a root cause that's the same in pretty much every cell in the body, and that we could control that, and that there were genes that not only slowed it down, but in 2020 we had a big publication that showed we could actually safely, for the first time, reverse that process, like reinstalling software in the cell to make it work again.

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:41

      And so what is the pro- is that using CRISPR? Like, what are, what are you using to-

3. 6:46 – 10:12

   How the gene therapy delivery works: virus-like capsules and targeting tissues

   1. DSDavid Sinclair6:46

      Well, we, we deliver genes into the body like CRISPR. Uh, I have a little, little prop here I brought-

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:53

      Ooh, what is that?

   3. DSDavid Sinclair6:53

      ... in my pocket here. Uh, this is a representation of how we deliver the age reversal genes. It's a virus-like capsule that we make in the lab, and this is what's going into the patients right now, into their eyes s-

   4. JRJoe Rogan7:06

      Whoa

   5. DSDavid Sinclair7:06

      ... initially, initially. Uh, and the eye is a good place to start because-

   6. JRJoe Rogan7:10

      How do you pick the people to get on these tests?

   7. DSDavid Sinclair7:12

      They, they volunteer. Um, I was really fortunate, uh, to see the first patient get dosed earlier this year. Um, and that person bravely volunteered to be the first person to get trillions of these injected into his eye-

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:30

      Wow

   9. DSDavid Sinclair7:30

      ... to see if it could, could cure his glaucoma loss of vision. And I-

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:34

       I bet if you have glaucoma, you're probably like, "Listen, what's the worst that could happen?"

   11. DSDavid Sinclair7:38

       Well, exactly. He pretty much was totally blind in one eye, and so there's really nothing that he has to lose. There's a risk that something might go wrong, but not really. He, uh... The good news is, and I can report to everybody around the world, that nothing's gone wrong so far. Everything's proceeding according to plan, and we're at a turning point potentially in human history if it works.

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:04

       So I, I interrupted you, but explain this little virus transporter-

   13. DSDavid Sinclair8:07

       Oh, sure

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:08

       ... system.

   15. DSDavid Sinclair8:08

       And, and for those of you listening, I've, I've got a little rubber ball with spikes on it. It looks a bit like COVID, but don't be-

   16. JRJoe Rogan8:13

       [laughs]

   17. DSDavid Sinclair8:13

       ... scared of it. It's not a pathogenic, uh, virus. It's actually a domesticated version of a virus. And this little plastic ball has little adapters. These red balls on the surface of the big ball, uh, target it to the cells in the back of the eye, and you can change the balls to target different tissues. We could change that outside little spike and target it to the liver, which we've done, and cured mice of their fatty liver disease as well. But this one's for the eye. And within that big ball is a protein capsule, and inside the protein capsule is our DNA special delivery, which we call OSK or OH- ER100. ER100 is Epigenetic Reprogramming 100, the drug that we know when we put it into human cells, it makes them younger, and then they work like they were young again.

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:05

       This sounds like the beginning of a horror movie.

   19. DSDavid Sinclair9:07

       [laughs]

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:08

       You know what I mean? Like, the scientist-

   21. DSDavid Sinclair9:09

       Yeah

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:09

       ... is on a talk show, and the scientist is explaining it-

   23. DSDavid Sinclair9:13

       Yeah

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:13

       ... and everyone's at home, like, with their coffee, like, "Wow-

   25. DSDavid Sinclair9:16

       And, and the scientist-

   26. JRJoe Rogan9:17

       "... we're gonna get... This is wonderful."

   27. DSDavid Sinclair9:18

       That's right.

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:18

       "We're gonna get younger again."

   29. DSDavid Sinclair9:20

       And the scientist says-

   30. JRJoe Rogan9:20

       And then it cuts to-
4. 10:12 – 14:25

   OSK reprogramming explained: Yamanaka factors, cell identity, and the ‘backup copy of youth’

   1. DSDavid Sinclair10:12

      Well, what they're doing is, the, there are three genes in this DNA, uh, package, and I call them OSK. OSK are three special genes that we found safely reprogram cells and reboot the backup copy of youth, which we now believe exists in our body. That's a big deal that there's a backup copy of youth. Even an old person, I don't see the, an old person anymore on the street. I just see a person that needs to be rebooted. These OSK genes-

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:41

      You just see... Wait a minute. Hold on. [laughs] When you see old people, you don't see old people. You think, you just say, "Oh, that poor po- person needs to be rebooted."

   3. DSDavid Sinclair10:49

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan10:50

      You're doing the perfect job for you. Like, your personality is perfectly suited for your occupation if that's how you actually look at people. [laughs]

   5. DSDavid Sinclair10:58

      Well, I, I do, and the reason is-

   6. JRJoe Rogan11:01

      [laughs]

   7. DSDavid Sinclair11:01

      ... that we, we all, we all have this backup copy. That the DNA, the instructions to be young that made us into who we are as kids, is still in our bodies, almost largely intact. You just need to read it again, and that's why reinstalling software or... I used to use the analogy of a CD. Uh, kids these days d- probably don't know what a CD is. It's a, it's a little plastic s- circle, like a record, that we used to put 20 songs on. It was awesome at the time.

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:29

      I think most people know.

   9. DSDavid Sinclair11:31

      I'm kidding. I'm kidding. It's a bit of a, a silly joke, but-

   10. JRJoe Rogan11:33

       Maybe a 10-year-old doesn't

   11. DSDavid Sinclair11:34

       ... when I, when I teach kids at Harvard, most of them have never held a CD, so.

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:38

       Isn't that wild?

   13. DSDavid Sinclair11:40

       Yeah. Uh, though they, they're not coming back, but albums definitely. So think of it like an album that you scratch, and the scratches are like aging, and we are getting rid of the scratches with the, these three genes, OSK. So let, let me tell you how these three genes work we found.

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:55

       Okay.

   15. DSDavid Sinclair11:56

       Uh, there was a person, uh, whose name, uh, is well-known in science circles called Shinya Yamanaka, from Japan obviously, and he discovered that there was a set of four genes that could reliably make adult cells, like skin cells, uh, into stem cells, and he deservedly won the Nobel Prize for that in 2006. But that wouldn't be useful here. You w- if I turned you into a bunch of stem cells, you'd probably die within a few minutes, so we don't wanna do that. And cancer is also a potential. So it took us about, well, from 2019, it took us a while to figure out that if we leave out one of the Yamanaka genes and just use three, OSK, leave out the other one called M, we'd get safe age reversal, about 75, 80% back to youth, but no further. We don't go back to zero, which is what Yamanaka did. And instead of cells losing their identity, which is what a stem cell has, no identity, we regain identity. So it's actu- I could draw graphs, but it, it doesn't really help listeners. But basically old, old age is losing identity of your cells, so they don't work. They forget how to work. That's what we think old age is in my lab. And stem cells have no identity. It's like a, a very early embryo. In between, we, our cells have a lot of identity. They function beautifully. We're, in our 20s, we're at peak. And what we've done is we've figured out how to go back towards youth, get these cells to work like they did again, back, get the backup copy somewhere exi- it exists. We're looking for it. Uh, and now cells actually behave like they did when we were 20. And if it works, we're gonna have glaucoma patients seeing for the first time, and that's the beginning of a whole cascade of drugs that I wanna develop for diseases of aging and eventually whole body rejuvenation.

   16. JRJoe Rogan13:44

       So the initial experiments are on glaucoma because it's a contained thing. The eyeball is a contained thing, and you could do it that way?

   17. DSDavid Sinclair13:53

       Yeah. My student, Wan Cheng Lu, who was doing this in 2017, I said, "Let's do the liver. Let's rejuvenate the liver." And he said, "No, the eye is a good idea." And he was right. So that's exactly why we chose that first.

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:04

       But just think about how many people have vision problems.

   19. DSDavid Sinclair14:07

       It's 40 million, uh, just in the US for glaucoma. Macular degeneration is even more, and in the lab we can cure that as well in the mice.

   20. JRJoe Rogan14:16

       Now, macular degeneration and glaucoma, these are diseases of aging, right, you would say? Or glaucoma is a-

   21. DSDavid Sinclair14:24

       Yeah

   22. JRJoe Rogan14:24

       ... a disease?

   23. DSDavid Sinclair14:25

       Oh, yeah.

5. 14:25 – 25:56

   Beyond eyesight: nerve regrowth, joints, and the ‘super-soldier’ ethical horizon

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:25

      Well, what about people that have had eyeball injuries and things like... Is, is there a backup copy of the eyeball where you could sort of reformat the eyeball structure?

   2. DSDavid Sinclair14:35

      You should come work in my lab. At, at least come visit. Uh-

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:38

      I would love to visit.

   4. DSDavid Sinclair14:39

      And the reason I say that is that's the exact question that we're asking.

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:42

      Hmm.

   6. DSDavid Sinclair14:43

      We showed that e- even if you injure, say, a nerve, uh, whether it's peripheral on, in your arm or in your brain or in the eye, like the optic nerve, we can regrow those back to where they were. And actually in 2020, on the cover of Nature magazine, there was the picture of an eye, and in the, in the paper we published, you could see the nerves regrowing back. Um, and so we, we think that injury is also treatable. Actually, a group in China just took our technology, this OSK stuff, put it into mice that had bad joints, and it regrew their muscle and their bone back to normal.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:19

      Whoa.

   8. DSDavid Sinclair15:20

      And so we're, we're also looking at treating injury, back injury, joints, osteoarthritis.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:27

      That would be phenomenal because there are so many people that are suffering from arthritis, and so many... I know so many people with injuries, like martial arts injuries. Like, I have one. My, my left knee is fucked up.

   10. DSDavid Sinclair15:39

       Oh.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:40

       It's, it's annoying. I keep it together. I'm got, I've got it like main- I maintain it, but it's always an issue. I have to stay on it. I, it's constantly an issue.

   12. DSDavid Sinclair15:47

       And there's little you can do. Like, stem cells, a little bit of, of relief, but not much.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       Stem cells give you relief, um, but not when, once you're dealing with cartilage damage and you're dealing with the... I had a meniscus surgery where they took out a piece of my meniscus, and I had my ACL reconstructed on that knee as well, so it's, it's just an issue. But it works pretty good for, like, what it should be. Like, if we were living in the 1930s, I'd be a cripple. You know?

   14. DSDavid Sinclair16:13

       Well, hang in there because we're gonna be in a world where you, we can rebuild parts of the body, including joints.

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:19

       The problem with that is, like, how does that apply to athletics? We're, we're gonna have fucking super soldiers in every sport. There's gonna be people in every sport that could do what Michael Jordan did and, like, leap from halfway across the basketball court and dunk.

   16. DSDavid Sinclair16:33

       That's, that's probably coming, and there may be DNA tests to see if you've got these OSK genes inserted. Um, and we're working on it, working on a drink and a pill as well for-

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:42

       A drink and a pill?

   18. DSDavid Sinclair16:44

       Yeah. We're... I mean, we're now eight years ahead of what the public realizes-

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:48

       Really?

   20. DSDavid Sinclair16:48

       ... in my lab at Harvard, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:50

       A drink and a pill, and what's a drink and a pill gonna do?

   22. DSDavid Sinclair16:53

       Well, a- right now it's in mice, so we've still got a ways to go, but when we give the drink to mice, they get rejuvenated. We-

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:00

       You should just give it to 80-year-olds. Uh, uh, if you're on the way out, like, let's fucking go. Like, give-

   24. DSDavid Sinclair17:05

       Well, this, this-

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:05

       ... give it a chance

   26. DSDavid Sinclair17:06

       ... is what the FDA is for. They forbid that. Uh-

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:08

       Yeah, that's why we need to get rid of them. Get rid of the FDA, and just give it to old people. D- if I was-

   28. DSDavid Sinclair17:14

       It's-

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       ... an old guy-

   30. DSDavid Sinclair17:15

       Yeah
6. 25:56 – 31:22

   AI accelerates drug discovery: from cocktails to a single molecule in months

   1. JRJoe Rogan25:56

      Well, look at what it's done with mathematics. Like-

   2. DSDavid Sinclair25:59

      Oh, yeah

   3. JRJoe Rogan25:59

      ... just over the last couple weeks, they've solved more than 50 program, or 50 mathematical equations that they have struggled for decade upon decade to try to solve, and AI's like, "Oh, I got it."

   4. DSDavid Sinclair26:13

      Yeah, well, biology's a little bit more complicated, but already AI is doing a lot of the science that we used to do in my lab. Uh, in fact, what we just recently did it in a couple of months would've taken about 160 years to complete.

   5. JRJoe Rogan26:26

      What?

   6. DSDavid Sinclair26:26

      And it's only getting faster. Eventually someone can make a drug on their phone.

   7. JRJoe Rogan26:29

      Wait a minute. Say that again. Say that again.

   8. DSDavid Sinclair26:30

      Two months instead of 160 years.

   9. JRJoe Rogan26:33

      Well, what exactly was it that you had to do?

   10. DSDavid Sinclair26:35

       Oh, so this drink and the, the pill that we're looking for, that's not easy, right? So we, we have some candidate molecules, we have a cocktail that works, but we want a single molecule.

   11. JRJoe Rogan26:44

       Are you taking the stuff?

   12. DSDavid Sinclair26:46

       Not yet.

   13. JRJoe Rogan26:48

       You're thinking about it?

   14. DSDavid Sinclair26:49

       Yeah. I-

   15. JRJoe Rogan26:50

       No one can stop you

   16. DSDavid Sinclair26:51

       ... I might. Well, that is true.

   17. JRJoe Rogan26:52

       [laughs]

   18. DSDavid Sinclair26:53

       That is true. But it'd be a bad look if I died, so may- maybe I won't do it.

   19. JRJoe Rogan26:57

       What? You're not gonna die. Come on.

   20. DSDavid Sinclair26:58

       I don't think so. We've done a lot of safety tests, and it looks really safe, but I, I'm not gonna publicly do anything against the law.

   21. JRJoe Rogan27:06

       Of course.

   22. DSDavid Sinclair27:06

       It'd be in private, of course.

   23. JRJoe Rogan27:08

       Of course.

   24. DSDavid Sinclair27:08

       Uh-

   25. JRJoe Rogan27:09

       Not publicly

   26. DSDavid Sinclair27:09

       ... no, but we... I, I'm at a stage where I have to be a good boy, because I've got the world watching.

   27. JRJoe Rogan27:14

       Right. Yes.

   28. DSDavid Sinclair27:15

       A lot is at stake.

   29. JRJoe Rogan27:16

       Yes. Yes.

   30. DSDavid Sinclair27:16

       And if-
7. 31:22 – 59:27

   Measuring biological age: methylation clocks, TET enzymes, and the dark side of control

   1. JRJoe Rogan31:22

      And are you measuring them by the length of their telomeres? Are you-

   2. DSDavid Sinclair31:26

      Yeah, partly, but actually a better measure is, uh, the chemicals that are added and subtracted off DNA itself called methyls, and it's just a carbon molecule with three hydrogens. Very s- very simple molecule. But what cells do is they use these methyls to tag genes to be switched off. So when we're growing as an embryo, the cells that wanna become neurons will shut off all these other unwanted genes like liver genes and skin genes. And the ones that don't get this methyl chemical stay on for our life, and that's how nerve cells develop and stay healthy. But what happens during aging, uh, a friend of mine, Steve Horvath, discovered that you can use this as a clock. These chemicals, they change over time, and we found that that happens largely due to DNA damage, going in the sun, these kind of things. We could use this to rapidly age a mouse, um, which we published in 2023.

   3. JRJoe Rogan32:21

      Oh, so like maybe like some nefarious state actor, like some Russian spy could like inject something in your coffee and you would turn 99 overnight?

   4. DSDavid Sinclair32:30

      We know how to do that.

   5. JRJoe Rogan32:31

      Whoa.

   6. DSDavid Sinclair32:32

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan32:32

      That's the dark side of this.

   8. DSDavid Sinclair32:34

      It, it is.

   9. JRJoe Rogan32:35

      You could, you could spike your husband's drink, "Fuck that dude," and turn him into an old man.

   10. DSDavid Sinclair32:39

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan32:40

       "Ah!"

   12. DSDavid Sinclair32:40

       Then you'd suffer-

   13. JRJoe Rogan32:40

       "What did you do?"

   14. DSDavid Sinclair32:42

       Yeah. [laughs] S- some- someone tweeted the other day, "If, if a 92-year-old could be 25 again, would you have sex with them?" Um, and my response was-

   15. JRJoe Rogan32:51

       Hell yeah

   16. DSDavid Sinclair32:51

       ... yes, but-

   17. JRJoe Rogan32:52

       Imagine how much they know.

   18. DSDavid Sinclair32:53

       But would they have sex with you?

   19. JRJoe Rogan32:54

       Right. That's the-

   20. DSDavid Sinclair32:55

       That's the be- better question

   21. JRJoe Rogan32:56

       ... that's the question.

   22. DSDavid Sinclair32:57

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:57

       They'd be looking for another 20-year-old.

   24. DSDavid Sinclair32:59

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan33:00

       Like-

   26. DSDavid Sinclair33:00

       Um, so anyway, how do we do it? We, we can measure those chemicals and determine how old a cell is or a human. I could take your skin cells from your mouth or your blood and tell you how old you are.

   27. JRJoe Rogan33:09

       I wonder if people would be so disturbed by like old rich guys dating young women if that was the case, you know?

   28. DSDavid Sinclair33:16

       You can tell if they looked young. Wouldn't make a difference.

   29. JRJoe Rogan33:18

       'Cause people get very mad at that.

   30. DSDavid Sinclair33:20

       Still.
8. 59:27 – 1:12:51

   Fasting, ketosis, and GLP-1s: momentum, benefits, and unexpected risks

   1. JRJoe Rogan59:27

      Yeah. Yeah. That's fascinating. Um, you, are you still on a plant-based diet?

   2. DSDavid Sinclair59:34

      Mostly.

   3. JRJoe Rogan59:35

      Yeah. I, what I had, uh, I just had a c- a conversation with a friend of mine about this. I don't know how much of the information that he was telling me was totally accurate. But what he was saying was that, um, he was told before he did fasting that one of the be- 'cause he's a runner. He said one of the best ways to get into fasting is to get your body into ketosis first, he said. And what he thinks is that a carnivore-based diet and what he was told was a good way, if you could do that for a few weeks, it mitigates your appetite. Like, one of the things that happens with a lot of these diets that, uh, regulate insulin resistance is that when you get used to consuming just fats and protein, you don't have the kind of hunger pangs that you have with carbohydrates. Like, when I, if I go in a bad streak and I'm eating pizza and pasta and, uh, and I've done that in the past. I don't really do that much and all, unless I'm on vacation.

   4. DSDavid Sinclair1:00:35

      Hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:35

      In the, in the past, though, when I would get hungry, I would get crazy hungry.

   6. DSDavid Sinclair1:00:40

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:40

      Like, I, I've got to eat now. I don't get that at all anymore because I'm mostly on a carnivore-based diet. Mostly what I eat, the, like, l- you look at the bulk of my diet, it's meat and fermented vegetables.

   8. DSDavid Sinclair1:00:52

      Okay.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:52

      It's meat and, like, kimchi and sauerkraut and stuff along those lines. And when I eat like that, my hunger is- Very easy to control. And I've gone 24 hours [snaps fingers] like, like it's nothing-

   10. DSDavid Sinclair1:01:04

       Yeah

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       ... not eating. It's like not a problem at all.

   12. DSDavid Sinclair1:01:07

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01:07

       But that's the most I've ever fasted, is 24 hours.

   14. DSDavid Sinclair1:01:09

       Okay. Well, see if you can go for three. Um, it's really worth it. You feel really great. Um, ketosis is wonderful.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:15

       That's what everybody says.

   16. DSDavid Sinclair1:01:16

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:17

       Yeah.

   18. DSDavid Sinclair1:01:17

       And you go into what's called deep cleansing. It's called s- um, chaperone mediated autophagy, or CMA. And, uh, a friend of mine in New York, uh, Maria Corvo, studies this, and it cleans out a lot of the old proteins in your body. So ketosis doesn't just make you feel good, you're actually renewing your protein in your body and rebuilding it. And so I, I do that as a, as an anti-aging thing.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:39

       What I find is the biggest benefit is, uh, mental acuity.

   20. DSDavid Sinclair1:01:43

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

       It, it's a g- it has a giant impact when I stick to the diet in terms of my ability to form sentences, like recall information, and just be present in-

   22. DSDavid Sinclair1:01:54

       Yeah

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:54

       ... in podcasts.

   24. DSDavid Sinclair1:01:55

       Yeah. So in, in, in my podcast, I'm... It, what you do is really quite difficult. It, it, you make it look easy. So when I'm, when I'm doing my podcast, and often it's solo, so it's challenging, um, I forget things. Like I have to remember hundreds of papers for these things. They're quite hard. Um, either I'm, I'm gonna fast, and if I don't remember to fast, um... I did an experiment. I took some ketones. You can drink these things now,-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:02:17

       Mm-hmm

   26. DSDavid Sinclair1:02:18

       ... right?

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:02:18

       Yeah.

   28. DSDavid Sinclair1:02:18

       So there's the one, uh, the little drink, I think it was-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:20

       Keto//OS IQ

   30. DSDavid Sinclair1:02:21

       ... Keto//OS IQ.
9. 1:12:51 – 1:20:02

   Lifestyle levers for +15 years: relationships, stress, and the fundamentals

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:12:51

      They're all smoking cigarettes and drinking wine and having a good time, and that's a factor that we really need to take into consideration. Loneliness, uh, isolation, and sadness are one of the greatest contributors to poor health outcomes.

   2. DSDavid Sinclair1:13:07

      It's number one.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:13:07

      Is it really?

   4. DSDavid Sinclair1:13:08

      It's, yeah, Robert Waldinger at Harvard had a study for, I think it was 40 years. World War II vets- They looked at everything, blood pressure, cholesterol. The number one thing that predicted longevity in those men was having a reliable partner.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:13:21

      Mm.

   6. DSDavid Sinclair1:13:23

      Yeah. So if-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:13:24

      Not just a reliable partner, someone that you love.

   8. DSDavid Sinclair1:13:28

      That's true.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:13:28

      Someone that you, like, want to be around all the time. You enjoy them. You still enjoy their company.

   10. DSDavid Sinclair1:13:34

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:13:34

       Which is possible. Most people don't believe that's possible.

   12. DSDavid Sinclair1:13:37

       Well, you're a role model in that.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:13:38

       I love my wife. I, I have fun with her. Like, we... I've been with her for a long- I've been married for 17 years. I enjoy her. I enjoy hanging out with her. Like, she's cool.

   14. DSDavid Sinclair1:13:48

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:13:48

       Like, she's a, a g- fun... And I have friends that aren't in situations like that, and it's, it's so bad when you're... Like, I have a friend who just, we were actually talking last night, he just got out of a crazy relationship where he's dating this girl for seven years. It was chaos and this and that. And I said to him, and he was like, "I..." He's 40, and he goes, "I don't think I'm ever gonna have a relationship again." He goes, "It was so bad."

   16. DSDavid Sinclair1:14:15

       Mm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:14:15

       He goes, "Being single feels so good." And I said, "There's an old saying, 'It's so much better to be alone than to wish you were alone.'" And he's like, "Yes, that's it."

   18. DSDavid Sinclair1:14:25

       [laughs]

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:14:25

       'Cause he was, like, with this crazy lady.

   20. DSDavid Sinclair1:14:28

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:14:28

       And he was like, "I just wish I was f-" And he finally got free, and now he's like, "I, I think I'm ruined." And I'm like, "It doesn't have to be like that. You can find someone that you actually love, and you really enjoy their time. You, you enjoy being with them."

   22. DSDavid Sinclair1:14:41

       Right.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:14:41

       It's possible.

   24. DSDavid Sinclair1:14:42

       There's good people out there.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:14:43

       But you gotta-

   26. DSDavid Sinclair1:14:44

       You just have to find them. Yeah

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:14:44

       ... you gotta also be someone that that kind of person wants to be with. That's the other thing.

   28. DSDavid Sinclair1:14:48

       Oh, for sure. And the stress of a relationship, um, we've seen in studies that clock with those chemicals on the DNA-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:14:54

       Mm, mm

   30. DSDavid Sinclair1:14:54

       ... it accelerates when you're under stress or going, going through a breakup.
10. 1:20:02 – 1:26:43

    Why Sinclair studies aging: grandmother’s influence, urgency, and saving lives at scale

    1. DSDavid Sinclair1:20:02

       Yeah. Well, what, what I try to spend my day is efficiently helping the world. So that people ask me why do I study aging in the first place, and it really is that I'm trying to please my grandmother, like some of us. Uh, she was the one that told me that, uh, I need to make the world a better place, and she's gone now.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:20:18

       That's what she said to you?

    3. DSDavid Sinclair1:20:20

       When I was four. It was, it's-

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:20:21

       Wow

    5. DSDavid Sinclair1:20:22

       ... it's been that ever since. She, she told me two things: humans are evil. She lived through World War II in Hungary and-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:20:28

       Oh, wow

    7. DSDavid Sinclair1:20:28

       ... the Russians came in and raped everybody, she said.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:20:32

       Oh.

    9. DSDavid Sinclair1:20:32

       And then, uh, so she escaped to Australia, and then she said that the other, uh, the other issue is that, uh, we don't do enough as humans to better the world, and so I had that stuck in my mind. Um, she also, by the way, said, "Oh, we all die," and I thought, "That- that's not really fair, is it?" And that set me on this path.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:20:53

        Make the world a better place, and we all die, and you're like, "Ah."

    11. DSDavid Sinclair1:20:58

        And what I've noticed with my kids is that even if you tell them that, they, they forget about it, 'cause it's brutal to think about death every day.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:21:05

        Yeah.

    13. DSDavid Sinclair1:21:06

        But for some reason, it's just stuck in my head, and every day I'm like, "Another 150,000 people are gonna die today due to aging-related diseases."

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:21:14

        Oof.

    15. DSDavid Sinclair1:21:15

        So my lab is, is mission-oriented. If we are a day late with something, it's a lot of people that are suffering potentially, uh, avoidable diseases.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:21:23

        That's why it's sort of understandable that people, like, show up outside of your lab and like, like, "I need to talk to you."

    17. DSDavid Sinclair1:21:30

        Uh, well-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:21:30

        "I need this"

    19. DSDavid Sinclair1:21:31

        ... yeah. Blind people wanna get in the trial. It's, it's big, and I think if the trial works, it's gonna be a very strange world, especially for my lab and for me. Uh, but we'll see. And even if it doesn't work this time, uh, the science is strong enough that we'll figure it out. We will, we will do this. It's just a question of when.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:21:48

        And so do you think that AI's gonna have a significant impact on the kind of improvements that you're able to-

    21. DSDavid Sinclair1:21:54

        It already is.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:21:55

        Yeah.

    23. DSDavid Sinclair1:21:55

        We're going super fast, and AI is, has revolutionized biology. It's revolutionizing everything, of course, but particularly in biology, where we used to have to read 15 papers a day. Now we can read a million if we want. It's totally different.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:22:09

        Wow.

    25. DSDavid Sinclair1:22:11

        Yeah. It's a super brain. A 19-year-old came to my lab this summer, and the lab grows from 20 to 40 people, and we're trying to figure out how do these three genes reset the cell? How does the cell remember what it was 30, 40 years ago? Where's that information stored in the cell? And I've got this theory that there's some new biology, there's a record in the DNA somewhere, and, uh, I gave him that task. I said, "Can you just go to the databases of the whole world, look at all the data that's there," there's exabytes of data, "and see if my prediction is true, or at least you can get evidence for it?" Uh, two weeks later he came back and the whole team, not the whole team, but five other people were smiling. "We have to show you something, David." "All right. Come in my office." We sat down. He shows up on the board on this, uh, LCD screen, "I think we've found the smoking gun for what your theory suggests." And he used AI to process all that data, and the AI came back and said, "Yeah, you're probably right." And it's a 19-year-old straight out of high school who did this-

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:23:15

        Wow

    27. DSDavid Sinclair1:23:16

        ... that did something that the whole field and all these professors and all these fancy sirs could not figure out until now.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:23:24

        That is phenomenal. That's so promising and so exciting.

    29. DSDavid Sinclair1:23:28

        It is. I mean, the future really does belong to people who can wrangle AI even on their phone. I think people on their phones are gonna be making medicines or at least designing them.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:23:37

        Or bombs.
11. 1:26:43 – 1:29:43

    Big tech enters longevity: Altos, Retro, New Limit—and why competition helps

    1. DSDavid Sinclair1:26:43

       Well, it's gonna work. I don't know if this trial is gonna be successful, but there's gonna be a lot of people doing these trials. I have some competition now. Do you know about that?

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:26:53

       No.

    3. DSDavid Sinclair1:26:54

       Uh, so since I started my company, Life Biosciences, which is doing the trials in, with ER100, others have jump, joined in in the party. Uh, so Jeff Bezos and others have started Altos Pharma. Um, they are based in three cities around the world. They have a few billion dollars to catch up. Um, Sam Altman has RetroBio. And, uh, let's see, Brian Armstrong from Coinbase, the CEO, started one called New Limit, and they've got a lot of money, all billions.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:27:27

       Do you think it's good that there's all these people involved in this?

    5. DSDavid Sinclair1:27:29

       I welcome it.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:27:29

       Good.

    7. DSDavid Sinclair1:27:30

       Yeah, definitely.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:27:30

       Competition.

    9. DSDavid Sinclair1:27:31

       Yeah, yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:27:31

        Yeah.

    11. DSDavid Sinclair1:27:31

        I'm not doing this for my own personal benefit. I want humanity to be changed the way it could be.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:27:37

        And the more people like Jeff Bezos, the more people with a, a large bank account that are invested in this, the better.

    13. DSDavid Sinclair1:27:42

        Fantastic.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:27:43

        And of course, a guy like Bezos, he's balling out of control. Why wouldn't he want to live forever?

    15. DSDavid Sinclair1:27:46

        [laughs] Well, what's left-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:27:47

        You know?

    17. DSDavid Sinclair1:27:47

        ... if you've got everything else, you know?

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:27:49

        Well, also it's like, it's like if you've got the amount of money that he has, and you can tackle all these different issues, you know, like his space program that he's working on, all, all these different things, like, of course, why wouldn't you wanna do cool things? Like, what's cooler than being able to grow limbs?

    19. DSDavid Sinclair1:28:04

        Yeah, yeah.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:28:04

        You know, what's cooler than being able to cure all diseases and reverse aging?

    21. DSDavid Sinclair1:28:08

        Well, there's... I don't think there's much cooler. That, that's why I'm doing it, 'cause that, I think, can be the biggest gift to humanity, is what you just said. So I, I don't know if I'll achieve it, probably not in my lifetime, but at least I've moved the needle and pushed the ball, ball globally in that direction.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:28:24

        I wonder if we're gonna get to a point in time where we can engineer consciousness in, in terms of, like, find out, like, uh, you find out someone's a sociopath, you find out someone's a kleptomaniac or someone's an arsonist. Like, what- whatever it is. Like, if you could figure out, like, what these little flaws are in the, the way the mind works, if we can completely map it out and go, "Oh, this is the error. This is where you, you're not making these two connections."

    23. DSDavid Sinclair1:28:51

        Of course. Of course. It's all just biology and engineering. There's nothing that stops us. And this is the century that we are able to control our own biology.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:28:59

        Oh.

    25. DSDavid Sinclair1:29:00

        Starting with cancer, heart disease, and aging.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:29:03

        A true utopian world of peaceful people living in harmony.

    27. DSDavid Sinclair1:29:07

        Well, not peaceful, but healthy.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:29:08

        Not peaceful?

    29. DSDavid Sinclair1:29:09

        I don't think world peace... I think curing aging is easier than world peace.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:29:13

        Well, if everybody achieved a, a state of consciousness that allowed them to understand that we're all in this together.
12. 1:29:43 – 1:51:38

    Psychedelics without the trip: ibogaine policy, LSD analogs, and mental health tools

    1. DSDavid Sinclair1:29:43

       I love that they're doing that. We need more of that. There's too much depression-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:29:46

       Uh-huh

    3. DSDavid Sinclair1:29:46

       ... and anxiety in the world.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:29:47

       And drug addiction. I mean, that's why I went to the White House and got Pr- the president to get involved in this executive order-

    5. DSDavid Sinclair1:29:55

       Yeah. Thank you for that

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:29:55

       ... on ibogaine.

    7. DSDavid Sinclair1:29:56

       Yes. Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:29:56

       'Cause I've talked to so many people that have had their life completely turned around with ibogaine. So many people that were, uh, opioid addiction, and also brain injuries, oddly enough.

    9. DSDavid Sinclair1:30:08

       Yeah.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:30:09

        Brain injuries, all, all sorts of TBI and CTE, that they've had, like, phenomenal results from this iboga tree-

    11. DSDavid Sinclair1:30:19

        [laughs]

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:30:19

        ... you know? Which is so crazy that this thing had been around for so long and is a Schedule 1 substance in the United States for no reason whatsoever. There's no risk of addiction.

    13. DSDavid Sinclair1:30:30

        Right.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:30:30

        There is no recreational use of it. It's a horrible experience.

    15. DSDavid Sinclair1:30:33

        Mm-hmm.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:30:33

        And I've done, not done it, but apparently it's fucking terrible. And it lasts for, like, 24 hours. Like, no one's gonna be doing that for funsies.

    17. DSDavid Sinclair1:30:40

        Right. Well, the question, I think, that comes up with all of these drugs is do you have to have the trip and experience the craziness-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:30:47

        To get the benefits

    19. DSDavid Sinclair1:30:48

        ... to get the benefit? And I don't think so. I think you should be able to separate them.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:30:51

        Well, you know, they've actually figured this out with LSD.

    21. DSDavid Sinclair1:30:54

        Yeah.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:30:55

        Right? Do you know about this?

    23. DSDavid Sinclair1:30:56

        No.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:30:56

        Okay. So they've en- engineered a, a different version of LSD that doesn't give you the hallucinogenic effects but does give you the, the benefits in terms of, like, the cognitive effects.

    25. DSDavid Sinclair1:31:09

        The Etai guys or someone else?

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:31:11

        I don't know what company has done this.

    27. DSDavid Sinclair1:31:14

        Oh.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:31:14

        See if you can find that, Jeremy.

    29. DSDavid Sinclair1:31:15

        I think it might be Etai. It's just-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:31:16

        But what they've, they've essentially done, and I think it's, it's basically in the lab work stage right now. I don't think that's applied to humans yet.
13. 1:51:38 – 1:57:59

    Red light and eye health: mitochondria, vision improvement claims, and practical tools

    1. DSDavid Sinclair1:51:38

       Yeah. Although, I am finding it's harder to read now that my eyes aren't young. Need some of my, uh, gene therapy myself.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:51:44

       Red light therapy?

    3. DSDavid Sinclair1:51:46

       I've tried that. D- does it work for you?

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:51:47

       Oh, yeah.

    5. DSDavid Sinclair1:51:48

       Yeah. Exactly.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:51:49

       Oh, I mean, people are skeptical about this and they, they think I'm full of shit. No, I don't need reading glasses anymore.

    7. DSDavid Sinclair1:51:56

       Really?

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:51:56

       Yes. I had reading g- I always have these fucking things laying around. I don't even use them anymore.

    9. DSDavid Sinclair1:52:01

       That's awesome.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:52:01

        Yeah.

    11. DSDavid Sinclair1:52:01

        Yeah, there's a lot of science now for red light-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:52:04

        It's real

    13. DSDavid Sinclair1:52:04

        ... and red light saunas. Yeah, I, I was-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:52:05

        I can tell you, as a regular user for multiple years-

    15. DSDavid Sinclair1:52:09

        Mm

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:52:09

        ... it took a while. It took, like, I was waiting for it in the beginning, like, "What the fuck?" And in fact, and not only that, in the beginning, because I don't close my eyes in the red light bed, I thought it was making things blurrier. I was like, "Oh, my God. Am I fucking up my eyesight by listening to these assholes?"

    17. DSDavid Sinclair1:52:25

        [laughs]

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:52:25

        Uh, but no, it just took a while, and then over the course of, like, many months, I started seeing some small improvements, and then I started seeing some pretty big improvements over the course of about a year. Whereas now, I, uh, it's not ... My eyes aren't perfect. They aren't like they were when I was 20, but they are way better than they were when I was 50.

    19. DSDavid Sinclair1:52:47

        How often did you have to do that?

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:52:49

        I do it three times a week minimum.

    21. DSDavid Sinclair1:52:51

        Mm-hmm.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:52:51

        That's what I try to do, but sometimes I'll do it five days a week, where I just get in there, and it's 20 minutes. I lay in a light bed-

    23. DSDavid Sinclair1:52:57

        Mm

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:52:57

        ... close my eyes, open my eyes, whatever. It seems to work on your vision even if you wear a blindfold.

    25. DSDavid Sinclair1:53:03

        What about people that can't afford a bed? Can you get little devices?

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:53:05

        Yes. You can get ... Well, there's a company called j- is it, it's called Joovv, right? J-U-U-V-V. Is that the name of the company? They were our sponsor at one point in time. That's how I started it.

    27. DSDavid Sinclair1:53:16

        Oh.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:53:16

        They had, uh, it's just a, a light panel that you stand in front of-

    29. DSDavid Sinclair1:53:20

        Oh, yeah

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:53:21

        ... and do that
14. 1:57:59 – 2:18:01

    Safety, cancer fears, and the case for faster science: funding cuts, donations, and ‘move quicker’

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:57:59

       What are the potential negative consequences of this kind of work? Like, when you, when you sit up at night and you worry, "I hope it doesn't do this," is it cancer? Is that the big one?

    2. DSDavid Sinclair1:58:10

       Yeah. It's... Though we've done a lot of work to allay real fears, it is possible that if we go too young, we can cause dysplasia, which is cells doing thing, what they shouldn't, or if they multiply and spread, that would be cancer.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:58:24

       If you make the cells too young. Like what I was saying before about don't turn me into a baby.

    4. DSDavid Sinclair1:58:28

       Right. We don't wanna go there. That's what Yamanaka did and got the Nobel for it, but that's not good here. But we, we never see our cells turn into stem cells again. We can't. We, we had mice that we left it, left the gene therapy on for 21 months in the eye and 19 months in the whole body of the animal, and if anything, they had less tumors than the ones that didn't get treated.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:58:51

       Hmm.

    6. DSDavid Sinclair1:58:51

       And we actually know from a wonderful student in my lab, Nilot, uh, she's a PhD student. She found that when you turn on these three same genes, not in the eye, but in cancer cells and tumors growing in mice, human cancers growing in mice, they shrink. So we think it might actually help with the cancer as well, which was a nice surprise.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:59:10

       Wow. That's incredible.

    8. DSDavid Sinclair1:59:12

       But it makes sense, right?

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:59:13

       Yes.

    10. DSDavid Sinclair1:59:13

        If you wake up a cancer cell and it says, "Crap, I shouldn't be growing. I should be a, you know, a liver cell or, or something s- similar," uh, now it kills itself. So we see that. The cells wake up, they realize what they were 30 years ago, and then they kill themselves.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:59:31

        Hmm. What, what is on the horizon in terms of, like, what would you like to accomplish, or what would you like to work on that you can't do currently?

    12. DSDavid Sinclair1:59:40

        Well, lots. Lots. You know, funding in my lab got completely cut last year, uh, and we've managed to survive through donations. We-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:59:50

        Why'd the funding get cut? Was it a USAID thing?

    14. DSDavid Sinclair1:59:52

        You remember, uh, there was a spat between Harvard and the federal government? All of the funding to Harvard Medical School got cut.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:59:58

        Was that during the time where the president was defending those anti-Semitic comments on campuses?

    16. DSDavid Sinclair2:00:07

        Yeah. Uh, well-

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:00:07

        Yeah

    18. DSDavid Sinclair2:00:07

        ... allegedly. I'm not getting into the politics.

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:00:10

        No need to get into the politics.

    20. DSDavid Sinclair2:00:11

        But yes, that was the thing.

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:00:11

        But during that whole thing, yeah.

    22. DSDavid Sinclair2:00:14

        Yeah. So what, what we, we... I almost had to fire most of the people in my lab during that episode. It was quite scary. But I-

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:00:21

        God

    24. DSDavid Sinclair2:00:22

        ... raised dona- so now my lab survives on donations, uh, not on federal government money. Thank you, friends. Thank you. Thank you. Um-

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:00:30

        Well, the thing is you've accomplished enough to where people are like, "I think he's onto something, and I wanna live forever."

    26. DSDavid Sinclair2:00:36

        Well, I'm lucky. Most scientists can't raise money like that.

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:00:39

        Hmm.

    28. DSDavid Sinclair2:00:39

        So really, really, it's a blessing. And now I'm raising money through a foundation to help other scientists survive. Um, but yeah, it's, it's been a blessing. But your question, um, was what do I wish I could do.

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:00:51

        Yeah.

    30. DSDavid Sinclair2:00:51

        I wish I could go faster. I wish I could try multiple approaches so we don't just have one shot on goal. Um, it's going slower than I would want. With a big injection of cash, we could do a lot of trials, a lot of different tissues. We could do a whole body reju- uh, rejuvenation as well.
15. 2:18:01 – 2:24:37

    Training, oxygen hormesis, and blood flow as the underrated longevity foundation

    1. JRJoe Rogan2:18:01

       That's where, where things like resistance exercises are so important, 'cause it maintains bone density, maintains muscle mass, maintains your ability to just get around and do things.

    2. DSDavid Sinclair2:18:11

       That's the other reason to, to do that. I mean, you're, you're gonna be really strong when you're older, and you won't fall. And if you do fall, you'll bounce. You won't break a bone. And he, he's like that. He's been working out at the gym, mostly strength training, but balance as well. It's very important to maintain balance. He's better at the gym than me at 87.

    3. JRJoe Rogan2:18:29

       That's incredible.

    4. DSDavid Sinclair2:18:29

       That just shows how weak I am. [laughs]

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:18:33

       That's unbelievable. [laughs]

    6. DSDavid Sinclair2:18:33

       Yeah, I gotta go to the gym. How about next time, if you have me on-

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:18:37

       You're gonna be buff.

    8. DSDavid Sinclair2:18:39

       We'll-

    9. JRJoe Rogan2:18:39

       Get you a trainer.

    10. DSDavid Sinclair2:18:40

        Yeah.

    11. JRJoe Rogan2:18:40

        You're in Massachusetts. There's a ton of trainers out there.

    12. DSDavid Sinclair2:18:42

        Great.

    13. JRJoe Rogan2:18:44

        We'll, we'll, we'll f-

    14. DSDavid Sinclair2:18:44

        All right. It's a deal

    15. JRJoe Rogan2:18:45

        ... we'll find you someone. We'll find you someone. Three days a week. That's all you need. The other days, you could do stuff, uh, b- uh, elective. Do stuff that you want, you know? But three days a week-

    16. DSDavid Sinclair2:18:54

        Right

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:18:54

        ... get a per- a personal trainer and have a workout with them.

    18. DSDavid Sinclair2:18:57

        All right. You're, you're on. Um-

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:18:58

        All right

    20. DSDavid Sinclair2:18:59

        ... I will let you know when it's going, or you help me. I can hear, though, that there's probably a few million people right now screaming, "David, just go, go to the lab. Forget about the gym. You need to make lots more discoveries."

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:19:09

        Well, it'll help your lab work. It'll help everything.

    22. DSDavid Sinclair2:19:11

        Oh, yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:19:11

        It'll help the amount of research you're able to do. You'll have more energy. You'll be more excited about things. I'm sure you've seen those MRI cross-sections of people's tissue, where they, uh, take, like, a 70-year-old man who's sedentary versus a 70-year-old man who's a marathon runner. It's f- fucking extraordinary.

    24. DSDavid Sinclair2:19:28

        I've seen my own. Uh, there's, there's too much fat in the muscle. Gotta get rid of it.

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:19:32

        Mm. Yeah.

    26. DSDavid Sinclair2:19:33

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:19:33

        Yeah. It's really extraordinary when you see those images. Like, those really bring it home.

    28. DSDavid Sinclair2:19:37

        And the bone changes. Bone turns-

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:19:38

        Mm-hmm

    30. DSDavid Sinclair2:19:38

        ... to fat, too. Uh, parts of the bone.

Episode duration: 2:24:37