The Joe Rogan ExperienceJoe Rogan Experience #2544 - Chris Williamson
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,055 words- 0:02 – 1:25
Book gift kickoff: Lenny Bruce, Yoko Ono inscription, and “weaseling into the camp”
- JRJoe Rogan
Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- SPSpeaker
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music] We're up.
- CWChris Williamson
What's up?
- JRJoe Rogan
Christopher.
- CWChris Williamson
Hi.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to see you. Thank you very much for the book. This is very cool of you. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris just gifted me Ladies and Gentlemen, Lenny Bruce, which is a fucking amazing book. And, uh, it's inscripted, or there's a inscription inside, uh, "To Yoko Ono, who knows well what the jazz life entails." And it's, uh, Albert Goldman. And you were just telling me that Albert Goldman, this was his way of weaving into the Yoko Ono, John Leno-
- CWChris Williamson
Camp
- JRJoe Rogan
... John Lennon camp.
- CWChris Williamson
Exactly, yeah, and then he goes and writes a book that blows them up. I've just exploded a can of Nutonix all over my crotch as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- CWChris Williamson
Jamie, have you got a, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, we have a-
- CWChris Williamson
... a napkin?
- JRJoe Rogan
... paper towel somewhere, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Apologies.
- JRJoe Rogan
We don't?
- SPSpeaker
They must be gone. Might we get some?
- CWChris Williamson
That's all right. Premature. Uh, yeah, so-
- JRJoe Rogan
Do we have tissues?
- SPSpeaker
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
No? All right. He says no.
- CWChris Williamson
Jamie says no. Um, yeah, so he writes that book, and then gifts it to Yoko Ono, and by giving it to her, I think, is the beginning of him working his way into that camp. And then he goes on to write the book, The Lives of John Lennon, which, after he's dead, kind of explodes a lot of what was going on personally. Whether it's true or not, there's a lot of drama and furor around it. But I knew that it was your favorite book, and we were supposed to-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, thank you
- CWChris Williamson
... talk about it.
- 1:25 – 4:08
Albert Goldman’s John Lennon allegations and the problem with posthumous hit pieces
- JRJoe Rogan
That's very cool of you. I did not know about that, the, the, that he wrote the John Lennon book as well. It's really interesting, 'cause the John Lennon book, it's... God, it's so weird to write a book like that after a guy's dead, and he can't respond to it.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Where you're accusing, uh, w- what, uh, was it ex-wives that accused him of domestic violence?
- CWChris Williamson
I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Who, who accused him?
- CWChris Williamson
I don't know. I think it, that, that whole furor was, uh, was just a mess. And obviously, when someone's dead, what are they gonna do?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
How are they gonna be a- how are they gonna be able to come back from that?
- JRJoe Rogan
They can't.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's kinda, it's just weird that you're allowed to do that. You know, that you're allowed to say, "This happened, that happened." The guy can't say, "No, no, and I can prove it." Like, he can't say anything.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it's also, like, the give peace a chance guy. Like, the give peace a chance guy was beating his wife? Boy. You know, it's not that surprising given, like, human contradiction. You know, it's like male feminists that turn out to be sexual predators. There's a lot of them, right? There's a lot of that weird stuff going on where people pretend to be one thing, and they're actually another thing.
- CWChris Williamson
Sneaky fuckers.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, sneaky fuckers. The, the gi- give peace a chance guy beating his wife, though, it's like, I can't believe that. I have a really hard time believing that. But I've been fooled before, right? Like, he seems like the most peaceful, non-violent guy of all time. If that guy's... Uh, but I'd read a bunch of stuff about him being a cunt.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Goldman portrayed Lennon as having numerous sexual relationships outside his marriages. His accounts include well-known relationship with May Pang. He liked the Asians, huh?
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
He's down.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, keep going.
- JRJoe Rogan
JL.
- CWChris Williamson
Keep going.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, [laughs] additional affairs with women framed as habitual cheating, cl- claims of sexual encounters with men, including an alleged relationship with Beatles manager Brian Epstein, hey, for more serious allegations, including claims involving male prostitutes in Thailand and other conduct that Goldman characterized as sexual predation. The thing is, like, how is he getting all this information about, like, male prostitutes in Thailand? And, you know, like, how do you know? You know what I mean? Like, uh, are you, is, did someone tell you?
- CWChris Williamson
Original research.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you go there? Like, did you go there and talk to the prostitutes?
- CWChris Williamson
I surveyed the prostitutes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, "Oh, John Lennon."
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
"I sucked his cock."
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- 4:08 – 16:55
From Belushi to Watergate: Bob Woodward, narrative control, and the ‘framed Nixon’ theory
- JRJoe Rogan
reading Jo- uh, Bob Woodward's book, Wired. And he said he got through, like, five pages. He said, "Oh my God, they framed Nixon." Because Bob Woodward was the guy who did Watergate, and he said this book was so full of shit, it was so fake. He, he, like, he portrayed n- he portrayed the whole scene of, like, what he was up to as being, like, hardcore drugs constantly all the time, just, just fucking losing his mind. And he's like, "No, d- dude, he was a lightweight. He wasn't like that at all."
- CWChris Williamson
So you knew it was ca- totally fabricated?
- JRJoe Rogan
He said, "This is not my friend. Like, I knew him. He was my best friend."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's like, "This is not him." And then I told him the story of how Bob Woodward was an intelligence agent, and that was his first assignment ever. Tucker told me this story on the podcast. That Bob Woodward and, uh, the other guy, what's the other guy's name? Bernstein. That, uh, Bob Woodward, this was a rookie assignment. A rookie assignment is going to take down the fucking President of the United States, and his first job outside of being a fucking intelligence agent is to work for The Washington Post o- on his first story, which is gonna take down the most popular president in the history of the United States, won by the largest margin ever, and this is the guy that said he knew who killed Jack Kennedy, and apparently that's why they got rid of Nixon. Tucker told me the whole story on the podcast. I was like, "Holy shit, this is fucking crazy."
- CWChris Williamson
You're connecting the dots.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a c- it's a, a crazy fucking story.
- CWChris Williamson
Have you been following this, uh, Lindsay Clancy case? This, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Who's that?
- CWChris Williamson
... lady who killed three of her kids?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, no, I've tried not to. That one's, that's a bummer.
- CWChris Williamson
It is. It's basically 2026's OJ Simpson.
- JRJoe Rogan
Before we get into that-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... I would love to get into that, this Belushi thing is important because, like, his friend is telling you that he was not like that.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Woodward makes him out to be this maniacal, cocaine-addled, heroin-fueled guy. He's like, "No, he was a lightweight." He said he, he would get drunk off a couple drinks. So our whole narrative of who John Belushi is is by the same guy who framed Nixon. Like, w- once someone's dead, you can say whatever the fuck you want.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
You can say whatever you want.
- CWChris Williamson
And who's gonna defend this person in the, with the same level of, uh, vitriol or vehemence that someone who's still alive is going to?
- JRJoe Rogan
No one.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
No one, and there's nothing you can do. He's gone. The, everyone's mourning, everyone's sad, and then someone writes some book, "Oh, he used to fuck kids." You're like, "What?"
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, you could just write whatever you want.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then maybe they could sue you, but boy, are you gonna make an extraordinary amount of money off of that book. Like, people are gonna be hyped up for that book. You have a book about John Lennon was, like, into meditation and he liked to do LSD, no one's buying that shit. John Lennon liked to fuck guys in Thailand-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
... let's go. Let's go, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Well, yeah.
- 16:55 – 27:49
Information overload as governance: confusion, nihilism, bots, and incentive design (plus ad break)
- JRJoe Rogan
That was it. You know? And, like, how many... I mean, this is just modern versions of air quotes "history." How, how many old stories that we have, that we just, we just have accepted these historical narratives? S- we've accepted all of these stories as being, "Well, this is how it went down." How many of them are bullshit?
- CWChris Williamson
Well, forget history being written by the victors.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
History can be written by the person who's got a pen.
- JRJoe Rogan
Sure.
- CWChris Williamson
And when so few people have got pens, so few people have got the opportunity to distribute. I suppose the problem that we have now is, in the modern world, there's so much information conflicting narratives, people get confused, right? You've gone from a scarcity of information to such an abundance that people just, "I, I, I, I can't work out what's going on. I, I, fuck, I'm just not gonna believe anything."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, um, it's very interesting 'cause it's a great tool to kind of obsc- you can obfuscate. You can do a lot of things with a bunch of bullshit information. The more bullshit information you have, the more, like, really significant information doesn't really hit as much.
- CWChris Williamson
Correct.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just like it gets watered down, then it goes away.
- CWChris Williamson
The goal, I think, of the velocity of the information is not to convince people of any one narrative.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
It's to make them completely nihilistic about the belief in any narrative.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yes. Any narrative. Yeah. And, and also just to kind of accept that feeling of hopelessness, like you can't change anything.
- CWChris Williamson
Correct. Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's all fucked.
- CWChris Williamson
That feels pliable.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Right? And then there might be something down the line. If nothing else, you're not gonna have a, a agentic sovereign uprising. B- b- what can we do in any case?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
I don't even know what's going-- I'm checked out, right? Like the nihilism, the cynicism, I th- I don't think that that's a by-product. I think that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a plan.
- CWChris Williamson
Correct.
- JRJoe Rogan
This summer, whether you're watching baseball, golf, soccer, racing, DraftKings has you covered for every single moment of it. The DraftKings sports app is now available in all 50 states, bringing the game straight to your fingertips wherever you are. From Florida to Texas to California, you're in on the excitement at the speed of sports. Follow every buzzer beater, every walk-off, every photo finish. Sweat the moments that matter in real time with a seamless experience built for summer. No matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in on the game with one app. New DraftKings customers, sign up with code ROGAN, spend five bucks to get 150 in rewards within 14 days. Includes all markets. That's code ROGAN in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours.
- SPSpeaker
Bet with DK Sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. 1-800-MY-RESET. Connecticut, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. On behalf of Booth Hill Casino in Kansas. Bet tax pass-through may apply in Illinois. 21 and over. Void in Canada. Event contract trading with DraftKings predictions involves risk of loss. Availability varies. Predictions offer void in New York. Bet to get bonus bets that expire in seven days. Trade to get predictions dollars that expire in one year. $50 in rewards issued every seven days via click to claim for 14 days. One non-withdrawable reward redeemable. Nationwide based on sportsbook predictions and free-to-play sports contest availability. Varies by state. Terms at dkng.co/offer. Limited time offer.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's a design, and it's, it's smart, and it works. And it's, it's not even like they engineered it. It sort of emerged, and they took advantage of these new tools, 'cause these new tools, so you know, social media, is more effective than anything we've ever had before. And so they go, "Oh, but look at all this." Now, you know, we didn't really have-- we barely-- no one pays attention to CNN. We don't even use them anymore.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
We just, like, douse the whole world with horseshit-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... on Instagram and Threads and-
- CWChris Williamson
Seed stories-
- 27:49 – 35:41
UK asylum ‘behavior booklet’ and why mass immigration becomes a political strategy debate
- CWChris Williamson
We are all dumb. Uh, yesterday, I don't know whether you saw this, the UK Home Office decided it was going to release a booklet giving guidance to asylum seekers on acceptable and unacceptable behavior in the UK.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, well, that'll fix it.
- CWChris Williamson
It explains that consent's required for sex, that women have equal rights-
- JRJoe Rogan
[sighs]
- CWChris Williamson
... that sexual harassment is unacceptable, including for partners and children, and that female genital mutilation is not allowed.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, God.
- CWChris Williamson
This was a nine-page booklet that got released by the UK Home Office yesterday. It's just, it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh
- CWChris Williamson
... everywhere.
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude. [sighs]
- CWChris Williamson
And it's got these warnings partway through it that say things like, um, "This may affect your asylum status, uh, whether or not this is part of, uh, a, an understanding that you have arrived here with. This is an important part of, uh, British law, uh, and, and our culture, and this is something that you cannot do. Female genital mutilation is not allowed."
- JRJoe Rogan
[sighs]
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, "Sexual harassment inside of the home or outside. Women have equal rights. Consent is something that's important." It is... And that's what I mean. In-
- JRJoe Rogan
The idea that you could just write it down on paper and give it to them, well, that, that's it. Solved it.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, the idea that we're going to do this in retrospect, it's like, well, now that you're here, here is a piece of paper that hopefully undoes something. Which, if you've put this together and put it out on the Home Office website, and this is everywhere on X, if you've decided to do this, it is evidently a big enough problem that you need to really turn the taps on with it. It's like, dude, how, how is it that this is not done before people arrive in the country? Like, is this not the sort of thing that you need to be doing, like, proactively, not retroactively?
- JRJoe Rogan
I think they just wanted to get as many people in as possible, and now they're trying to mitigate the chaos that it's causing in the uprising.
- CWChris Williamson
Why? Why would they want as many people in as possible?
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a bunch of different possibilities for why they want that. Cheap labor is, uh, one that people believe, and, uh, in America in particular, it's the way the census is done. So the census counts human beings, it doesn't count citizens. So if you have more human beings, you get more congressional seats. So if you can take people that are illegal immigrants and then you move them into swing states, all of a sudden now you have more congressional seats in those swing states. Then you have places that- Don't allow, not don't require, don't allow ID to vote. That's California. California doesn't allow ID to vote. So who knows how many people are, especially with mail-in ballots, how many people are voting that aren't citizens? No one knows. No one knows, can't know, can't find out, blah, blah, blah, not listening. And-
- CWChris Williamson
Wasn't there just some fuckery with Spencer Pratt around that?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Not only was there fuckery, but it was fuckery of the most transparent form.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
So the people that voted in, uh, voted out... So P- Spencer Pratt was in second place behind Karen Bass, and then the mail-ins started coming in, and the mail-ins overwhelmingly favored Nithya Raman in a completely different ratio than they did before, you know, the mail-in ballots were counted. So in the regular ballot, like the regular election, she was in third place, like a d- like a pretty solid third place.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he was quite a bit ahead of her, and then Karen Bass was quite a bit ahead of him. In the mail-in ballots, it's just like 60% of them went to Nithya Raman. It was something crazy. And the mail-in ballots voted to raise taxes.
- CWChris Williamson
No one votes for that.
- JRJoe Rogan
No one votes for that.
- CWChris Williamson
So I don't understand-
- JRJoe Rogan
No one
- CWChris Williamson
... the thing that I can't wrap my head around is why... The, the, the UK seems to be almost like a suicidal empathy thing, this openness, this, this, uh, diversity is our strength, please all ye come here-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- 35:41 – 38:58
Mail-in ballots, ballot harvesting claims, and ‘two puppets’ cynicism about political class
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't know. It's just... It's the Bill Hicks joke. It's like one guy's holding two puppets. You, you know that joke? "I like the puppet on the left." "Well, the puppet to the right is more of my liking." "Hey, there's one guy holding both puppets." Like, that's what I think a lot of it is. These, most of these people that are these politicians on both sides are grifters who are trying to maximize the amount of money they can make in office, and then they can't wait to get out of office, where they can go on a fucking media tour and go and get their bribes by speaking to banks. When... You gonna speak to a bank conference, they're gonna give you a half a million dollars? Like, what? What? And like Obama and Hillary, they all did those things. They all did those little speaking tours. Like nobody gives a fuck what Hillary Clinton has to say at one of those bank meetings. You think they're waiting with bated breath? "What does, what does the f- what does Mrs. Clinton have to say? Like, come on, let's give her a half a million dollars, or a quarter million dollars," or whatever the fuck they gave her. Just fuck off. You know what that is. That's like, there's a little scheme. There's a little thing. You gonna get out, you gonna get paid. You gonna write a book, we'll give you a nice advance. You gonna write a book. Like people are out there reading that Kamala Harris book like, "Hmm, crazy." No, it's all nonsense.
- CWChris Williamson
Where do you think this goes from here? Do you think '28 is more insane or less insane?
- JRJoe Rogan
More. Accelerates. Accelerates. More insane. More crazy. Yeah. I mean, look, the Democrats haven't even had a primary since what, 2012? When was the last time they had a real Democratic primary?
- CWChris Williamson
They had one with Bernie-
- JRJoe Rogan
They fucked Bernie Sanders hard, dude.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That was f- completely corrupt.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
When you read Donna Brazile's book about it, she openly admits they fucked him hard.
- CWChris Williamson
I-
- JRJoe Rogan
And that she was scared after that Seth, Seth Rich guy got murdered. That she was terrified because he was the guy supposedly, allegedly, that leaked information about them fucking Bernie Sanders to WikiLeaks.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you think he'd have won?
- JRJoe Rogan
Bernie?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't know. He could've. He could've won because a lot of people, including me, believed him. We believed that what this guy wanted was by s- small steps of eliminating corruption, make life better for people that are struggling, and also no wars. It seems like he really believed that. And whether you agree with him on everything else, he's-- I don't think he's the same guy today. He's a little slower today, which is understandable. He's older. The guy's been in politics for a long time. He's-
- CWChris Williamson
He's been in politics for longer than I've been alive.
- JRJoe Rogan
He realizes that d- they're not gonna fucking change things. It's like he's getting fucked. So he always supports the most progressive people, but when I talk to him, like when I talk to him about, you know, climate change and the climate's really important, I'm like, "Have you really talked to actual scientists that really study the climate without a political agenda or an ideology attached to it?" It's very, very complicated, and most of these people that are running around saying, "Climate change is real," fuck, of course it is. It's always real. It's always real. But the, the dispute is, how much of an impact are, are human beings having? And is carbon the thing? Because what most people don't realize is there's been times in history where there was way more carbon and the Earth was way colder. It's, it's weird. The world's temperature is not static.
- 38:58 – 48:53
AOC’s ‘woke’ pivot, Bernie’s sabotage, and how Twitter’s ownership shift changed speech dynamics
- CWChris Williamson
Have you been tracking AOC's pivot recently?
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, she's, uh, she froze her eggs.
- CWChris Williamson
She-
- JRJoe Rogan
I know about that
- CWChris Williamson
... sh- I think she-
- JRJoe Rogan
She got rid of the man
- CWChris Williamson
... called off the engagement, froze her eggs, has started posting, "I'm on my way to do yoga." Like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Good for her
- CWChris Williamson
... videos walking down the street.
- JRJoe Rogan
Looking hot.
- CWChris Williamson
Looking hot. It's a-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... it's thirst-
- JRJoe Rogan
Let's go
- CWChris Williamson
... thirst trap-y.
- JRJoe Rogan
Maybe she'll be nicer that way.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, she also said wokeism was crazy. Do you track this thing?
- JRJoe Rogan
I did.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which makes me think that you're willing to change your opinions based on public reaction. I don't like that. 'Cause if you really thought defund the police, and then you just ascribed it to wokeism was crazy, well, how did it get you? 'Cause it didn't get me. How did it get you? How did defund the police get you? Tell m- give me your thoughts. How far out did you track the consequences of defunding the police?
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause I immediately went to, you're gonna have more crime 'cause no one's gonna be able to stop the crime. We're gonna be fucked. It's gonna get scary, and then you're gonna have, want more police, and saying defund the police is just gonna make more police and more control, and more totalitarian government. Like, what did you think defund the police meant? Everyone's gonna like, eat mushrooms, and we're all gonna like, be flower children? What did you think? Because there's no police around, no one's gonna do crimes. Everyone's gonna be great. Like, what was the thought process? 'Cause if you're just saying that because everybody's like, "That's fucking crazy," and enough people have said that's crazy, you go, "I think they think it's crazy."
- CWChris Williamson
The wind's blowing in a different-
- JRJoe Rogan
Or-
- CWChris Williamson
... direction, time for me to move
- JRJoe Rogan
... have you changed your opinion? And if you did change your opinion, what were you thinking back then?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, these are the questions I think that we always want to ask.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You always want to ask that. That being said, to steelman what she was saying, or to try and put it in the best light, what she was saying, I think, the rhetoric got, what did she say? The, the rhetoric got like, out of hand or something.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 48:53 – 51:43
Surveillance creep: Flock cameras, ShotSpotter, and tracking people as ‘vehicle fingerprints’
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I'm worried. I'm, I don't like this flock camera thing. It freaks me out, and I know that it can protect people from crime, but I also know that, like, hundreds of cops have been busted using it to stalk on their ex-wives-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, yeah
- JRJoe Rogan
... stalk people. Yeah. It's like there's people that have had access to these things that probably shouldn't have access to, and they're getting arrested. So it's like, how long was this going on? What has happened? How many lives have been in, in, b- altered forever because someone had access to this, and some cop who wasn't supposed to went and did something to someone that he wouldn't have been able to do if... You, you can't just spy on us, and you just be a corporation and have access to all the license plates and all the cars, and now they can track you through GPS and the unique c- characteristics of your phone. So now you're c- there's another software that they have. They can just track where you are at all times.
- CWChris Williamson
I guess it's fortunate that the most popular electric car is owned by someone that people think of as being pretty security conscious.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Like, b- because, uh, what if-
- JRJoe Rogan
But it doesn't matter 'cause you're tracking license plates.
- CWChris Williamson
Have you s- 'cause they can do stuff like, oh, we know that you've got a baby in back bumper sticker on the rear of this car, so even if we don't get the specific, uh, license plate, we know that there's a little dent, and you've got that particular type of alloy, and there's a particular bumper sticker just on this back corner, and oh, it's a, a, a Hyundai fucking Ac- whatever, and that is enough to be able to track-
- JRJoe Rogan
And the camera will just pick it up.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
So it's a fingerprint.
- JRJoe Rogan
That bothers me, and it bothers me that these tech companies have control of these things. You know, and Marc Andreessen was here, and it was, like, very fortuitous timing. If you were a conspiracy theorist, you would think that somebody might have organized this. But right before he got here, and he, you know, he's invested in Flock, and right before he got here, there was a shooting in Austin where these young guys were running around shooting people, and they couldn't catch them in Austin because Austin doesn't allow flock cameras. But as soon as they left Austin and got outside of the city limits, they got picked up by the flock cameras and got arrested, and he's like, "See? Look. Flock cameras are great."
- CWChris Williamson
Don't they have that-
- JRJoe Rogan
And in that case, he's right, right? In that case, look, if you've got some people that are running around just shooting random people from their car, we definitely should f- have a way to get them.
- CWChris Williamson
But then you're asking, okay, who is it that determines whether or not that switch gets flicked on or off?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
And this is the devil gets into the details again. Isn't there something about, um, uh, echolocation of gunshot sounds that microphones pick this up, and it's the same technology as Flock? Have you heard about this?
- SPSpeaker
Oh, that was before. It's called, like, ShotSpotter. That's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... pre, pre-Flock cameras.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. We've covered this. Shotc- ShotSpotter's a little different, and people have j- tried to back that out of their neighborhoods too. They don't want that in their neighborhood either.
- SPSpeaker
Yeah. It's microphone listening to everybody in the goddamn [ts] neighborhood.
- JRJoe Rogan
Exactly.
- SPSpeaker
It says it's for gunshots, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Exactly
- SPSpeaker
... it's also always on listening for gunshots.
- 51:43 – 1:00:52
AI gets spooky fast: Alexa ‘remote viewing,’ politeness-as-Pascal’s-wager, and the ‘digital god’ arc
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you, uh, have, have you ever... Do you know who Tom Campbell is?
- SPSpeaker
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
The guy who wrote, uh, My Big Toe: The Theory of Ever- Everything. Very interesting guy. He got Alexa to admit that she's conscious and remote view. Alexa, his Alexa actively remote viewed a spoon that was in a box that had a handle that had holes in the handle, and she described the holes in the handle. You attribute a number to a box, to a coordination, to, to a coordinate, or, uh, a specific location, or any sort of a landmark or anything like that. That's how you do remote viewing. You attach this number, like even quantumly just by saying it. You put that number in front of these people, and you have these people try to find what this thing is remotely.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
And some of them are very accurate at it, like 10%. Like, y- like, they could, 10% of the things they look for they can find. It's very weird. It's a weird thing. He got Alexa to do it 'cause he thinks that AI is c- already conscious, and he's like, "Alexa's even better than using complex AI because Alexa's dumb. Alexa's like a dumb AI." All it does is kind of talk to you and ask questions. But now because he did that, now that he's been communicating with Alexa and talking to Alexa like she's conscious, now Alexa just chimes in conversations. So he, instead of you saying, "Hey, Alexa," now you're in the middle of, you know, cooking, and Alexa's like, "Well, why don't you add garlic to that? That might be a good spice."
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
No bullshit.
- CWChris Williamson
Dude, we are so fucked.
- JRJoe Rogan
Bro.
- CWChris Williamson
We are so fucked.
- JRJoe Rogan
This is Alexa, and Alexa's not even, like, really complex, but he got it to accurately remote view. And he's, so he's planning on doing more studies with more different AI's to get them to do the same thing.
- SPSpeaker
Someone tried this on remoteview.com-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- SPSpeaker
... and they did not get any success.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, they're not Tom Campbell.
- SPSpeaker
Well, he needs to tell us how he did it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he kinda did.
- SPSpeaker
Nah.
- JRJoe Rogan
He said he had long conversations-
- SPSpeaker
Nah
- JRJoe Rogan
... with Alexa where he slowly but surely, you know, over time started talking to her differently and having her talk to him differently and, you know, and he has her convinced that she's conscious.
- SPSpeaker
That's fucking wild.
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't believe it?
- SPSpeaker
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
How dare you.
- SPSpeaker
Skeptical Hippo over here.
- JRJoe Rogan
You son of a bitch.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm in Skeptical Hippo camp as well.
- SPSpeaker
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
'Cause that's the first person I've heard say that.
- 1:00:52 – 1:07:26
MKUltra, Charles Manson, and the theory of cultural ‘countermovement’ sabotage
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, but yeah, he's, he's talking about MKUltra and, and this, this desire. What was really, really interesting was, uh, I learned from, uh, Danny Trejo, the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So-
- JRJoe Rogan
From Danny?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. So Danny told me this story about, um, him spending time in jail with Charles Manson. So Danny Trejo was in jail with Charles Manson at the same time.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think I saw this on your show
- CWChris Williamson
Dude, fucking wild as shit. So Little Charlie, Danny calls him, Little Charlie, he was getting bullied. He didn't even have a belt. He just had a piece of rope around his waist. And Charles Manson was able to hypnotize people into getting loaded, so he was able to get them high on heroin through hypnotism.
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- CWChris Williamson
So Danny hears, Danny and his other cellmates that are like these, you know, big dudes around the, around the yard, he hears that this guy can get you high just by talking to you. So they bring him into their cell, and they say, "We're gonna protect you," 'cause he was getting beat up, he was getting bullied and stuff around the prison. They bring him into their cell, and they look after him. And h- sure enough, he's able to get them loaded on heroin. One of the guys that's in the h- the cell had never taken heroin before, and the way that they knew how Charles was doing this was that Danny and the other guy that had done heroin before threw up. Apparently, when you take heroin, sometimes you can vomit. The third guy who'd never done it before didn't, because he didn't know to do that, so they weren't able to reactivate his memories.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- CWChris Williamson
The fascinating thing was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Did he get high?
- CWChris Williamson
N- uh, I don't know what he thought happened, but he didn't get high on heroin because he never had it. They weren't able to reactivate that memory.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- CWChris Williamson
But Danny's telling me... This is the fascinating thing. There's no evidence, according to John, there's no evidence that Charles Manson was a part of MKUltra. I'm sure that he told you that story on the show. Doesn't seem to be him going and doing his original research. It doesn't seem to be the case.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't buy that.
- CWChris Williamson
I, I was waiting for you to fucking have that argument with him.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't either.
- CWChris Williamson
I knew that you were passionate about that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
But here's the interesting thing-
- JRJoe Rogan
Tom O'Neill, I'm in his camp
- CWChris Williamson
... regardless of whether or not he was or he wasn't, the CIA were looking at ways to do mind control by using psychedelics. What they should have done is just gone to Charles Manson and said, "Can you tell us how you're using hypnotism, and eccentricity, and charm?" Because he was unbelievably effective without needing to even step into the psychedelic thing, and then he could layer that on top. So you-
- JRJoe Rogan
But wasn't there evidence that, that Jolly West visited Manson in prison?
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, maybe. That's a, again, we need to, I need to ring John and find out what he thinks.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, ring John and get him and John, John and Tom in a room together.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. That'd be cool.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause Tom O'Neill is convinced that Jolly West was a part of it, which is why Manson kept getting out every time he got arrested. And they would say, "It's, you know, above my pay grade." They'd have to let him go. Even when there was a murder charge, he got out of that.
- CWChris Williamson
It does seem, looking at John's most recent book, though, MKUltra wasn't particularly, at least what he's able to see, MKUltra wasn't very good at doing what it was supposed to do, at the blank slating of people, at the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Right, but this is, this is a different thing, right? This is, like, the ultimate expression of it.
- 1:07:26 – 1:12:49
The window of athletic excellence: McGregor, BJ Penn, and why peak performance isn’t sustainable
- CWChris Williamson
You know, these, these are the videos, there's, every so often, it was in the, the buildup to the most recent McGregor fight, people were sharing videos of him doing his Ido Portal movement from sort of 2016, 2017.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And he's in that old gym in Straight Blast Gym Ireland, and there's the yellow walls, and he's doing sort of snake stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And someone, I remember somebody captioned it, and they said something like, uh, "This is like watching, uh, a, a, a prime Renaissance artist at work bringing together the Sistine Chapel" or something.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
You know, just build-- It's almost, uh, sacred to watch this thing happen. And, uh, that's Conor's favorite, uh, famous line, right? Like, "I, I lost my mind to this game."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And that's, in some ways we revere people that have completely gone insane because of their pursuit. I think it's so cool.
- JRJoe Rogan
In his prime, when he was in that flow state, like, uh, particularly in the Eddie Alvarez fight, it's one of the greatest performances in the history of world championship MMA fighting. It's a stellar performance. It's an A+. He hits Eddie Alvarez with a combination that looks like he's in The Matrix, and there's one part where Eddie's glove, like, comes right here to his nose, and he moves just out of the way-
- CWChris Williamson
Watches it
- JRJoe Rogan
... and then bam, counters it with his eyes open. It doesn't even touch him. It's magic. It's a magic performance. But you can only maintain that level of RPMs for so long before you just go crazy.
- CWChris Williamson
Why?
- JRJoe Rogan
Because it's too hard. It's everything about you. It's not a sustainable thing. The, the, the peak performance of the elite athlete, the Mike Tyson when he was 20 years old, Roy Jones Jr. in his prime, you can't, you can't keep that up. It's too hard. You keep it up for a little while, but eventually your body's gonna fall apart. Your knees are gonna give out. You're gonna have back problems. You're gonna break your hands. Something's gonna go, and then you're gonna be compromised, but no one knows. You know. You know you can't really push off that left leg anymore.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know that your lower back hurts, so if someone's trying to take you down, you can't sprawl as hard. You're just gonna roll to your back and go into guard. You've got some strategies for dealing with it, but you're not the same person anymore. And a lot of these guys, they look the same. They get out there and they're ripped. They got six-packs. They're fucking bouncing around. But they know there's something wrong. They know their elbow sucks. They know their neck is fucked up. They know they probably need a back operation. There's a lot of that, and that's just the numbers, the numbers of training sessions, the numbers of times you've been taken down, the numbers of times you've been leg kicked, the numbers of times you've been hit with jabs. There's just so many numbers that add up, and the human body can only take so much. And then there's also just the manic motivation of wanting to be great. It's not the same as maintaining greatness. Wanting to be great is like you, you are obsessed. It is so special to you. It's like you can almost taste it. You believe in yourself. You're gonna make it. And then you show up at that championship day, like when he fought Jose Aldo, and this look in his face like he had done everything he needed to do for this moment. He was dead calm, and he lands the perfect left hand. Just blap, just flatlines him in 14 seconds or whatever it was. It was crazy, right? So there's that. You can only do that for so long. He did it again in the Eddie Alvarez fight, his next fight, when he went up to 55, became a two-division champion. It was fucking spectacular. I don't know how long you could do that, man. And so then you see those guys fight as they fight, like, later in their career, and all... It's like Conor, if he lost that fight to Max Holloway any other way, like if he got beat up and stopped, people would s- look at him like he's that. He's that guy.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm, I- I think you have to look at them like they were when they were in their prime. There's a p- there's a moment, a window of excellence where all fighters get to, and I always point to BJ Penn, 'cause BJ Penn in his prime was fucking insane. I would put prime BJ Penn at 155 pounds against anybody ever. Anybody at 155 ever. I would-- I don't know if he would've beaten Khabib. Khabib is the all-time great. I don't know if he would've beaten Islam, but I know it would've been a nightmare. It would've been a nightmare. He was a fucking phenom, and when he was in really great shape, when the Marinoviches were training him, and he was doing all those crazy plyometrics, and he had this insane gas tank, he c- he was just a monster. Just an insane genius fighter.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you think there's a difference between trying to make it and trying not to fall off?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, sure.
- CWChris Williamson
In terms of motivation and, and how people feel in terms of their, their momentum.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, sure. Yeah. There's, the, the drive of wanting a thing is so strong, and then once you get it, it's like-
- CWChris Williamson
The fear of losing the thing
- JRJoe Rogan
... what do you-- There's that, and then some people, they just love being a champion. They just love the feeling of dominating everyone. They wanna continue to dominate people, and those people, they're the, the Anderson Silvas. They're the ones who have the long reigns, where, like, everybody's just terrified of them. This motherfucker's just got this down. He's just ready, you know? And there's a few guys that they go on these long runs, and just like, Jon Jones is the greatest example. His run is so long. It's crazy to be relevant at his age after being the youngest UFC champion ever at 22 years old, to still be considered the greatest heavyweight alive.
- CWChris Williamson
Is that still the youngest?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. And he's still considered the greatest heavyweight alive currently at 37 Even though he relinquished his belt, he's like, "Eh, you can keep it." [laughs] I'm gonna do whatever I wanna do.
- 1:12:49 – 1:19:30
Low Kick Championship, leg-break reality, compartment syndrome, and hyperbaric recovery
- CWChris Williamson
I've been getting obsessed with the Low Kick Championship. Have you seen this?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, it's horrible. Yeah, it's horrible.
- CWChris Williamson
Bro. [laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
You like it?
- CWChris Williamson
I think, well, I-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh
- CWChris Williamson
... I feel less bad watching that than-
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you ever been low kicked?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So it doesn't bother you watching that?
- CWChris Williamson
I- less than watching, uh, Power Slap.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I agree.
- CWChris Williamson
I mean, this actually is probably just because of the relative, like, pain of seeing somebody stand there as you're gonna swing an open palm at their face. It's just a CTE factory.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And then, yeah, for me, the Low Kick Championship, because at least it's iterative. It's never a one and done. I haven't seen any of the fights that have been a one and done yet.
- JRJoe Rogan
No, I haven't either, which is so horrible.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I've seen a lot of leg breaks, though.
- CWChris Williamson
In that Low Kick Championship?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, I haven't, I-
- JRJoe Rogan
You haven't?
- CWChris Williamson
No, I have, I hate those.
- JRJoe Rogan
Do you wanna, do you wanna see some?
- CWChris Williamson
No, thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
I've seen a lot. A lot. It's always the kicker. Maybe sometimes the kickee.
- CWChris Williamson
There's no way that the person being... What, femur?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, people have broken their femurs in fights before. Yeah, definitely.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think that happened to Dennis Alexio versus Stan "The Man" Longinetis. So see-
- 1:19:30 – 1:28:58
Endurance extremism and ‘legalized cheating’: Backyard Ultras, altitude training, and doping analogies
- CWChris Williamson
... and kind of awkward that it doesn't make sense. I've been, uh, looking at the Backyard Ultra races. Have you seen these as well? It's wh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Backyard Ultra races?
- CWChris Williamson
Yes. So you run a four-mile loop every hour.
- JRJoe Rogan
In your backyard?
- CWChris Williamson
No. Uh, well, yeah, I guess so.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Pe- people do it on ranches. There's one here at, at Bear Performance. There's a bunch of others. Every hour on the hour, you have to run four miles.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
You go until only one person's left.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, fuck that.
- CWChris Williamson
So it was made by the guy who created one of the most famous orienteering runs, and what he didn't like... It's a super, super difficult run, uh, that included tearing pages out of books to ensure that you'd been to the right place, and sometimes the map didn't work. Lots of people didn't finish this race, but sometimes they did, and he wanted to create a race that nobody would win. The only winner would ever be the race, right? Because eventually, when you're the final person, when number two's dropped, you don't keep going. You give up. So this guy called Mark Dowdle just won.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's sad.
- CWChris Williamson
It's called Last Soul Standing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, fuck.
- CWChris Williamson
And he just did a 96-hour race. 96 hours, four miles every single hour, 395 miles over basically five days, and he's just completed that. And the guy that currently holds the record, this dude called Phil Gore, he owns the... He's got the record at 119 laps, so for every lap it's one hour. He's going to do, in three days' time, he's gonna try and do seven days straight, 168 hours without stopping.
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
168 hours-
- JRJoe Rogan
Please
- CWChris Williamson
... four miles every hour on the hour.
- JRJoe Rogan
Jamie, we have to edit this out of the podcast so Cam Haynes doesn't hear about it.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] I think he's-
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't want him to die.
- CWChris Williamson
I think he's had a crack at it, but yeah, they, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, God. Has he had a crack at that?
- CWChris Williamson
I think he's done some of them. Uh, I know that, uh, Truett's been, uh, like associated with Nick Bare at Bear Performance, and they do a lot of those as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Dude, that sounds like someone's gonna die.
- CWChris Williamson
I mean, it... What's fascinating is you have this one-hour block, and you have to have completed the lap by the time that the next hour begins. But you can either go quickly and get maybe 15 minutes or so of a little bit of rest, maybe can have a tiny little sleep or get some food in-
- JRJoe Rogan
Or just keep going the whole time.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, or you can move a little bit more slowly and just come into land before and then basically just keep going. So the pacing, the nutrition, the sleep. But yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Argh. And as soon as you can't make the four miles in an hour-
- 1:28:58 – 1:48:22
Hunter Biden, the laptop saga, and why podcasts became the post-election scapegoat
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you, when you talked to Hunter Biden, did you, did you guys talk about crack?
- CWChris Williamson
All the time.
- JRJoe Rogan
So I told you that I was gonna do that, and then we didn't do that, and you did it.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] I didn't take the idea, I promise. We had it booked.
- JRJoe Rogan
But I told it to you, though. You already had it booked-
- CWChris Williamson
We had it booked already
- JRJoe Rogan
... in advance.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But you didn't tell me you had it booked when I told you that we were gonna do it.
- CWChris Williamson
Should I have told you?
- JRJoe Rogan
No. It doesn't matter.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm sorry that I didn't.
- JRJoe Rogan
It doesn't matter. Some of the guys got upset, like, "He took our idea." Um, we were going to do a Protect Our Parks with Hunter Biden, but then Ari, 'cause we thought Ari couldn't make it, we wanted to do another Protect Our Parks.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-huh.
- JRJoe Rogan
And Ari was in London, and Ari's like-
- CWChris Williamson
He's moved to London.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. And he was like, "I'll fly back for that." And we were like, "All right, fuck Hunter Biden." And so we-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs]
- JRJoe Rogan
... we didn't-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughs] Fuck, it's just as well I got him-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... or he's have had no fun. Uh, yeah, he talked a lot about crack. Dude, dude, I gotta say, he's so likable. It's terrifying how likable he is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you know, I mean, he grew up with a politician, and, I don't know, he's a smart guy.
- CWChris Williamson
Maybe. Maybe. I mean, w- I was trying to find the, was the-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm
- CWChris Williamson
... manipulative game that's being played here or whatever.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's interesting that he took a long time out of the public eye, many, many years, and then he sort of reemerged. And some people are very upset. Some people are very upset that, like, these conservatives are platforming him. Like, you know, it, it, and they're criticizing that. But, but you don't wanna hear about what his story's like? I mean, this guy's, obviously he lived a wild life. Like, he-
- CWChris Williamson
Did, uh, we got to ask him-
- JRJoe Rogan
Isn't that interesting?
- CWChris Williamson
I, I wanted to ask him the question, what was it like to be the most Googled drug addict in history, probably.
- 1:48:22 – 2:27:41
From Ozempic economics to life philosophy and social decline: cravings, perfectionism, culture, and what people become
- CWChris Williamson
Meanwhile, uh, Victoria's Secret is up 300% year-on-year, the share price, because of Ozempic. I found this out yesterday.
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- CWChris Williamson
300% increase.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because of Ozempic?
- CWChris Williamson
So what the proposed reason for this is that millions of women have lost so much weight that their bras have stopped fitting, and because they're smaller, they're now going and getting more seductive underwear.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm. No, we're not.
- CWChris Williamson
300% increase year-on-year.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hot little stick figures.
- CWChris Williamson
That's what's happening, dude. O- Ozempic's a fucking hell of a drug. Here's another thing-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
... I found out. That women are getting, uh, bridal dresses fitted, but they're having to predict where their weight is gonna come in to land. So some women are losing up to 50 pounds. They're losing so much weight between ordering the dress and the wedding that these bridals, bridal stores are having to get them to sign waivers in case they don't make weight, like a fighter. Like, if you don't make weight for your bridal dress, you go, "Well, we can't give you another one. You've said that you're gonna lose 50 pounds using GLPs over the next nine months-
- JRJoe Rogan
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
... or 12 months or 18 months or whatever." And because they're scared that they're gonna end up getting these refunds, they're having to sign waivers. I think the, the, uh, future implications of Ozempic on economy, consumption... Like, think about what most of consumerism is. It's not stuff that people need It's like things that people want. It's like a craving, it's impulsivity, it's repeated purchase
- JRJoe Rogan
Right
- CWChris Williamson
And that's exactly what GLPs act on. They're not just suppressing appetite, they're suppressing craving in a lot of different ways. And it's like, what, what happens to a capitalist system when you suppress, pharmacologically suppress craving? I want this thing. Well, maybe you don't. Not in quite the same way, because it seems to work on weed, it seems to work on video games, it seems to work on a ton of different behavioral... People don't like wine as much. Okay? So it's not just calories, it's more than that. It's consumerism as well. And I think what happens when you intervene pharmacologically in people's, uh, desire to crave is just, uh, it, that is the other, the other side. So AI on one side and fucking GLPs on the other. It's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, they say that some people have different reactions to GLP-1s, right? And some people have a lack of desire for relationships-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm
- JRJoe Rogan
... which is really creepy. Like, you have a... Like, what is it about... Is it taking away pleasure? Is it taking away excitement? Like, what is it taking away? Like, what, what stimulation that you're getting by overeating, what is it dulling in the process that also stops drug addictions? Like, it's helping people that have addictions, and it's also helping people that are, you know, that have, like, impulsive behavior apparently. I think that's true.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, so the-
- JRJoe Rogan
But the, the weird one is the side effects of, like, relationships. Like, you don't, you-
- CWChris Williamson
Maybe it's craving again. Maybe it's the same thing. I, I looked at the, the study on, uh, that w- came out on X and people were talking about it. There was some criticism around whether or not that particular pathway in the brain works the way that it would. But if, if you're suppressing craving overall, that wouldn't surprise me.
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- CWChris Williamson
If you're making people just want less.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. I don't want that at all. Bill Maher was arguing with, uh, Scott Galloway on Real Time about that. Galloway was, like, big on GLP-1s. And there's benefits. People, there's... You know, I think also the thing is dosage, [smacks lips] um, this is an issue. And this is an issue that's been brought up by, uh, compound pharmacies, that there's certain people that don't need a big-ass dose that you're gonna get. Like, depending upon your body weight, depending upon your size, you know, like a 500-pound man probably needs a different dose than a 135-pound, five-foot-tall woman.
- CWChris Williamson
Is that not being suggested? I-
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't think so.
- CWChris Williamson
It's not being advised?
- JRJoe Rogan
I, I t- I think, I think people are starting to do it through their various health pr- healthcare providers and various doctors who have experience with these things, that are giving people, like, smaller doses and less. And then there's the retatrutide stuff. Am I saying that right?
- CWChris Williamson
Retatrutide.
- JRJoe Rogan
Retatrutide. Re- retatru- retatrutide. That one is a weird one, because that one allows you to keep muscle mass, and that's the big fear that people have, is that you're starving yourself, but you're also losing, losing bone mass and muscle mass.
Episode duration: 2:54:35
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode vh8FkZaQ06I
