Joe Rogan Experience #2561 - LL Cool J

LL Cool J is a Grammy Award-winning rapper, actor, and philanthropist. Look for him on "NCIS: New York," premiering October 6 on CBS and streaming the next day on Paramount+. https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/ncis-new-york/ https://www.youtube.com/c/LLCoolJ https://www.wearefamilyfoundation.org https://www.llcoolj.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using https://dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. Switch today at https://www.Visible.com for just 25/mo. Or Save $10 on your first month of Visible+ Pro with code ROGAN.

Joe RoganhostLL Cool Jguest

Oct 6, 20262h 32mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

150 min read · 30,006 words

0:00 – 0:02
Intro
1. JRJoe Rogan
  [upbeat music]
0:02 – 2:05
Sneaker talk, comfort hacks, and reconnecting after a 1990s NBC upfront
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
2. SPSpeaker
  The Joe Rogan Experience.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night. All day. [upbeat music]
4. LJLL Cool J
  Man, those shorts are unbelievably comfortable, man.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
6. LJLL Cool J
  I promise you.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  I believe you.
8. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  We're up. I got sneaker recommendations from LL Cool J.
10. LJLL Cool J
  [laughs]
11. JRJoe Rogan
  I'll, I'll, I'll rec- I'll take that. I was wearing these Pumas, I'm gonna throw them... You said I'm gonna incinerate them?
12. LJLL Cool J
  You, you'll throw them in the incinerator.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay. I don't, I don't know if that's true, but I, I like these.
14. LJLL Cool J
  I, yeah, I... You have no reason to believe me yet. I c- I'll give you that.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
16. LJLL Cool J
  You have no reason to believe me. But when you, when you try them, you're gonna say, "Yo, your man was telling the truth." You're gonna [laughs]
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Okay.
18. LJLL Cool J
  You'll see. You're gonna come back on and say that.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  All right.
20. LJLL Cool J
  I promise you.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  I believe you. I'll, I'll give it a shot.
22. LJLL Cool J
  [laughs] All right.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  I'll give it a shot.
24. LJLL Cool J
  All right.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Um, well anyway, very nice to meet you.
26. LJLL Cool J
  Nice to meet you too, man.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  I, I met you a long fucking time ago.
28. LJLL Cool J
  Dude-
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Very briefly. Yeah. We were at this stupid NBC thing. It was very funny because you were making fun of it. It was some sick... You know, they d- they do those things where they have all the new shows and everybody-
30. LJLL Cool J
  Oh, yeah, Upfront
2:05 – 3:21
Getting signed at 16: Def Jam’s origins and being the first act
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Dude, you've had a fucking insane career, man.
2. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  I mean, when did you get signed? Weren't you, like, 17 or some shit?
4. LJLL Cool J
  So-
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, how old were you when you first got your first contract?
6. LJLL Cool J
  So, um, 16.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  16.
8. LJLL Cool J
  16. We started Def Jam.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
10. LJLL Cool J
  Rick Rubin and Russell Simmons start-
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow
12. LJLL Cool J
  ... well, Rick started Def Jam, right, as a production company. Rick and Russell together formed Def Jam the label, and I was the first act. The first song on Def Jam Productions was It's Yours by T La Rock, and then from there the label was formed, 'cause that was Streetwise/Party Time. And then from there, the label was formed and, um, you know, the rest is history.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  That's incredible.
14. LJLL Cool J
  LL Cool J. Ad Rock from the Beastie Boys actually programmed the beat. Rick Rubin produced it, and, uh, I did the mic, and here we are.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Most people who get that successful at 16 have a very difficult time keeping their shit together.
16. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah. Yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  But you just managed to keep smiling and floating through this thing.
18. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, you know what? You know what?
19. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
20. LJLL Cool J
  You know, yo. Yo, man, you get a, you get-
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Look at that
22. LJLL Cool J
  ... enough bites at the apple... Yep. [laughs] You know what I mean?
23. JRJoe Rogan
  16.
24. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, yeah, that was probably about 17, 18 right there.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
26. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah. I always could tell by my jewelry.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
28. LJLL Cool J
  [laughs] You know what I'm saying? You know?
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
30. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
3:21 – 5:54
Boom boxes, public music, and hearing hip-hop’s earliest tapes in New York
1. JRJoe Rogan
  That's back in the boom box days.
2. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, it was the boom box, man. That was everything. That meant everything to me.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, everybody had those back then.
4. LJLL Cool J
  Absolutely.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  People would carry them around, walking down the street with their own music.
6. LJLL Cool J
  Absolutely.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  We're in a different world now. People don't understand what it was like back then.
8. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, because actually, uh, in a weird way, even though the world is more public, music has become more private.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
10. LJLL Cool J
  Right?
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Right, right, right.
12. LJLL Cool J
  And the world was private, but music was public back then, right?
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Right, right, right. Yeah.
14. LJLL Cool J
  It's like, it- it's like it in- it inverted, you know what I mean?
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Well, you... I mean, it's no exaggeration to say you're a pioneer, because hip hop was so new back then.
16. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  It was so new. You had, like, Sugarhill, which was in, like, pfft-
18. LJLL Cool J
  Sugarhill, Rapper's Delight was '79.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
20. LJLL Cool J
  But I got into hip hop before that because I was listening to, like, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Four before they were the Five, and the Treacherous Three, and Moe, and the Cold Crush, and-
21. JRJoe Rogan
  What year was that?
22. LJLL Cool J
  That's the s- '75, '76, '77.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
24. LJLL Cool J
  You know, around that time, you know what I mean? And I was hearing the tapes, 'cause they were circulating, 'cause I was in Queens, you know what I mean? So the tapes were coming out of the Bronx. And when I was in Long Island... See, I was raised... I was born in Long Island and I was raised in Queens, but I also lived in North Babylon. And, um, when I was in North Babylon, next door, um, there was a lot of foster kids who were from uptown, who were from the Bronx and from, from Brooklyn. Well, Bronx, and, and Harlem, and Brooklyn. So I would hear all the tapes when hip hop was emerging. So I was like, you know, eight years old, and I was getting exposed to, like, all of the, you know, the newest of the new at a really young age. So I got, like, indoctrinated and dipped in the, baptized in the fire of hip hop early, you know what I mean?
25. JRJoe Rogan
  What a fortuitous time to be-
26. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah
27. JRJoe Rogan
  ... a kid, too. Like, it's the perfect time, 'cause it's all emerging around you.
28. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, it's like, it's like when Gladwell talks about, you know, um, you know, that moment, the tipping point, where people being born in certain places.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
30. LJLL Cool J
  You know, when he talks about, you know, being in Seattle when computers were-
5:54 – 11:29
Jiu-jitsu as a celebrity reset: humility, skill truth, and beginner mindset
1. LJLL Cool J
  I do, I do. I've been, um... You know, I've recently, uh, started, uh, doing jujitsu, which has been a lot of fun.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
3. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of fun.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Where are you training?
5. LJLL Cool J
  Uh, Brian Glick.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Where's he at?
7. LJLL Cool J
  He's in Brooklyn.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, okay
9. LJLL Cool J
  He's in Brooklyn. And, um, he trained under Danaher.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, great.
11. LJLL Cool J
  And, um-
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, phenomenal
13. LJLL Cool J
  ... yeah. And, uh, so I've been-
14. JRJoe Rogan
  That's a great lineage.
15. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah. He's a-
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Renzo Gracie, Danaher. Yeah.
17. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah. Yeah, so he's, uh, he's a lot of fun. He... Actually, my man Scott, Scott Conk, you know, put me on to him.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, okay.
19. LJLL Cool J
  And we've been, yeah, we've been working.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
21. LJLL Cool J
  So it's, uh, it's very humbling, you know? You, you, you think you're-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
23. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That's Glick. That's Glick. That's my teacher. And, uh-
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Nice
25. LJLL Cool J
  ... and so that's a lot of fun. That's, uh-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  How long you been doing that now?
27. LJLL Cool J
  Not long at all. And you find out that, uh, you think you're a tough guy, but you're really a little old lady.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
29. LJLL Cool J
  You find out really quickly. [laughs]
30. JRJoe Rogan
  It's so humbling.
11:29 – 21:03
Reading to navigate life: Clausewitz, curiosity, and discipline over ego
1. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, it's, um, you know. Man, I like that and I like reading, you know. Love the books, man.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  What kind of shit you read?
3. LJLL Cool J
  I read everything.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah?
5. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah. I read everything from Carl von Clausewitz to-
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Who's that?
7. LJLL Cool J
  He's a Austrian, uh, general. Prussian general, actually. Prussian. Prussian general who, um, you know, talked about this concept called friction. And, uh, the, he has this, uh, Clausewitzian triangle where he talks about, like, you know, you have these three, these three areas that the pendulum swings over. Like, uh, probability and chance, logic and reason, and, uh, luck. You know, it, no, probability and chance, logic and reason, and passion and enmity, hatred. So you can look at society right now, and you can take a Clausewitzian trinity and put it over society, and you'd know that we're operating in a place of emotions and passions.
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
9. LJLL Cool J
  So logic and reasons wouldn't even make any-
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm
11. LJLL Cool J
  ... you know, wouldn't even mean anything. So it's the trinity, you know? So it, it really helps you think about life, you know.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Interesting.
13. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  So the grand strategy is the, at the center of it all.
15. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Government, politics, reason, intelligence.
17. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  The armed forces.
19. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Calculation, chance.
21. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Game of chance.
23. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Odds, values.
25. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Fascinating.
27. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah. Yeah, it's cool.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, how did you get into this guy?
29. LJLL Cool J
  I just read all kinds of stuff. I love literature, love history, love reading things that, um, make me better. You know what I'm saying? And what you find out is the more you read, the less you know... The more you know, the more you find out, the more you realize you don't know shit.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
21:03 – 26:25
Bruce Lee, mixed martial arts, and why pioneers get misunderstood
1. LJLL Cool J
  Bruce is who I got into acting.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
3. LJLL Cool J
  Absolutely.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  How'd that happen?
5. LJLL Cool J
  Because, I mean, he was the only dude with a tan that was, like, doing some cool shit on TV.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
7. LJLL Cool J
  Or on the, in the movies. Y- you know? He was a little brown and, you know?
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, bro, all my Asian friends were so happy.
9. LJLL Cool J
  I love Bruce Lee.
10. JRJoe Rogan
  All my Asian friends were like, "Finally, we have a fucking superhero."
11. LJLL Cool J
  Yo, Bruce was the man.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  He was the man, dude.
13. LJLL Cool J
  He was the man.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  He was the man.
15. LJLL Cool J
  Come on.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  He changed martial arts for the world.
17. LJLL Cool J
  He used to be on Jamaica Avenue with the yellow and black Game of Death suit, baby-
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Did you ever notice? [laughs]
19. LJLL Cool J
  ... with the Chinese slippers. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely walking down the ave with that shit. Proud.
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Bro, that Game of Death suit was the shit.
21. LJLL Cool J
  Right?
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
23. LJLL Cool J
  That yellow with the, yo-
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah
25. LJLL Cool J
  ... with the black stripes with the joint.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
27. LJLL Cool J
  That yellow Game of Death suit.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  I don't think people understand how revolutionary he was. All martial arts were all, they were all siloed.
29. LJLL Cool J
  Yes.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, if you did kung fu and your instructor caught you doing Shotokan somewhere-
26:25 – 42:12
Hip-hop’s early meaning: invisibility, empowerment, and aspirational bravado
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Because hip-hop as an art form before the 1980s was nonexistent in pop culture, and then all of a sudden, it was the dominant force-
2. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah
3. JRJoe Rogan
  ... five or six years later.
4. LJLL Cool J
  That's right.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, people have to understand what it was like. Like, when I was a kid, and I was... When I was coming up, the first time I heard Sugarhill Gang was, I was in a lunch room. I was in Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts.
6. LJLL Cool J
  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  And at that time, it was a bad neighborhood. Now it's been kind of gentrified and... At the time, it was, uh... Like, there was kids that were 17 years old, and they were still in the eighth grade. It was crazy.
8. LJLL Cool J
  That's, yeah.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
10. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah. Oh, yeah. [laughs] Yeah, there's that.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Or not, not that-
12. LJLL Cool J
  17 years old in the eighth grade-
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah
14. LJLL Cool J
  ... is some nasty work, B.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, it was like that.
16. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, no bullshit.
18. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  There was kids that should've been graduating from high school, and they hadn't even gotten out of middle school yet.
20. LJLL Cool J
  It's day care center.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  It was just a lot of, like-
22. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah
23. JRJoe Rogan
  ... ne'er-do-wells and people that just came from bad homes and bad neighborhoods. But it was the first time I had ever heard that, and I remember thinking, "This is, like, a different kind of music. Like, this is-"
24. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, because, because you know, you live in a neighborhood, and you feel invisible.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Yes.
26. LJLL Cool J
  You know? And, and I think a lot of people can relate to that now. You live in a neighborhood, you feel invisible. Your friends get killed, nobody cares. The news doesn't talk about... You know, they may talk about some major thing, but when your friend down the block gets killed, nobody cares.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
28. LJLL Cool J
  You walk down, you got this ditty-bop that you're walking with like this, and people think you're walking to be cool, but you're really walking 'cause you like... It's like being in the jungle.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
30. LJLL Cool J
  And you're like a lion, and you're, like, walking around trying to stay low, and you're watching your environment and your back, right?
42:12 – 44:37
Global spread: touring young, early overseas hip-hop scenes, and culture respect
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow. So d- d- was hip hop taking off over there as well with, like, artists?
2. LJLL Cool J
  Yes.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  Were new artists emerging in England?
4. LJLL Cool J
  Yes.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah?
6. LJLL Cool J
  Yes, yes. It was, uh... Well, at that time there wasn't as many, but they got into hip-hop very early. The whole world, like-
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah
8. LJLL Cool J
  ... there's a whole lineage of artists that are pioneers around the world that contributed to hip-hop in their own countries. I can't name them all, but like in France you had MC Solaar, but there was people before him. Like, you know, there's different... My man Spatz in Germany, there was people before him obviously. Uh, I always get the name wrong, but it starts with an N and a number. I just c- can't remember. Um, but yeah, I mean hip-hop, like I would go to Japan, you know, and they'd be singing the words to the song verbatim and they can't speak English. But they rap-
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow
10. LJLL Cool J
  ... the song.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
12. LJLL Cool J
  Hey, yeah. It's crazy.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  [sighs]
14. LJLL Cool J
  It's amazing.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  That's wild.
16. LJLL Cool J
  But it, it made me respect cultures all over the world, though. It made me, it gave me a different kind of mindset for people around the world. You know what I'm saying? How I view things. 'Cause you can be real myopic. I mean, if... When I first started going out of the land, I'd be like, "Yo, take me to the Black neighborhood. Let me just see what it looks like." They'd be like, "What do you mean? We're in Japan."
17. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
18. LJLL Cool J
  [laughs] You know what I'm saying? Like, [laughs] you know, it's like-
19. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
20. LJLL Cool J
  ... "So just t- take me where it's hip-hop-ish." And then you start getting exposed, and you see kids that love graffiti, and they love the arts, and they love hip-hop.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
22. LJLL Cool J
  And you come to find a, a newfound respect. Like, I did a, a, a record in Germany with my man, and he, and S- Spatz. I think I'm saying his name right. I mean, he's rapping in German, I'm rapping in English. People in America don't know about the song, but it was, like, a thing I did over there. And you know-
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow
24. LJLL Cool J
  ... you just get into a whole world. You know what I'm saying?
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Well, I love, uh, Brazilian hip-hop, 'cause I can't speak Portuguese.
26. LJLL Cool J
  [laughs] Yeah.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  I just like listening to the sounds. You know?
28. LJLL Cool J
  You know what's funny? I, I think the be... To me, the language that sounds, like, most impressive to me, I mean, outside of English, I would say is French.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  French, yeah.
30. LJLL Cool J
  French sounds incredible.
44:37 – 48:03
Athletic bases for fighting: France’s MMA surge, basketball footwork, and ring IQ
1. JRJoe Rogan
  France is fascinating to me.
2. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
3. JRJoe Rogan
  You know, you know it's a, a hyper point of mixed martial arts now.
4. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  A lot of elite fighters are coming-
6. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah
7. JRJoe Rogan
  ... out of France, including the heavyweight champion of the world, Ciryl Gane. He's from France.
8. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, Ciryl. Yeah, Ciryl is-
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, Cédric Doumbè-
10. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah
11. JRJoe Rogan
  ... is this dude who fights in the PFL, who's, like, one of the best kickboxers alive.
12. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  He's fucking people up in MMA now. Yeah.
14. LJLL Cool J
  I know Ciryl was-
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Ciryl was-
16. LJLL Cool J
  I mean, he's a monster
17. JRJoe Rogan
  ... he's a freak. He, uh, he has changed my thoughts on bases, like, for sports to entry.
18. LJLL Cool J
  What is his base? Yeah.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, he's a Muay Thai fighter, but here's the point. He played basketball.
20. LJLL Cool J
  That's interesting.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  This is why. I think basketball is a huge factor for big athletes in particular-
22. LJLL Cool J
  To get movement
23. JRJoe Rogan
  ... if you can play good at basketball. The thing about being good at basketball is you have to be able to change direction constantly.
24. LJLL Cool J
  Tennis.
25. JRJoe Rogan
  You have to be able... Yes, your... Tennis would be a good one, but it's not constant. It's ba-bump, ba-bump, ba-bump, ba-bump.
26. LJLL Cool J
  Basketball-
27. JRJoe Rogan
  Basketball-
28. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah
29. JRJoe Rogan
  ... you're constantly engaging. There's a ball-
30. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah
48:03 – 1:05:36
Boxing history rabbit hole: elusive legends, family lineage, and soul tests
1. LJLL Cool J
  ... and getting out of there. He was, he was incredible with that. There's also this Italian... There's this Italian boxer. You gotta look it up. He's like a, um... I, I think he's like Floyd before Floyd. Even before Floyd's pops. Look for the E- E- E- E- Enio... Look for, um, like, I... No, no, actually, he's Argent- he's Italian, but he was in Argentina, but he's Italian. And he's, uh, um, he's one of the most incredible elusive fighters I've ever seen in my life.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  What year was this?
3. LJLL Cool J
  This is, I wanna... '40s, '50s, '60s. Like, look Italian...
4. SPSpeaker
  I got him.
5. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, you got him? Watch. L- watch this.
6. JRJoe Rogan
  What's his name?
7. LJLL Cool J
  Um- Nicol- Nicolino, yeah
8. JRJoe Rogan
  Nicolino Locche
9. LJLL Cool J
  Watch, watch Nicolino. Watch, watch Nicolino. Watch, watch. N- no, this ain't him. That's, that's not him I think they're comparing him to other people Yeah. No, you gotta ... But fi- yeah, here he is. Yeah, now watch, watch him, watch him, watch him, watch him. Watch. Oh, they're, they're comparing him. [slapping sound] Like, get him. Find him. Look at it, look at it, look at this, look at this. Look at this. Look at this
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, I have seen this guy before
11. LJLL Cool J
  Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. Th- look at this shit. This is, this is, this, this is cra- you know, you can't ... Like, y- like I mean, he's unbelievable, and this is, like, a bad fight, 'cause I'm looking at his eye, and it look like he didn't ... You know. But I mean, when you really watch him, unbelievable. When you get him on the ropes, you find him on the ropes, I mean, this guy is just unbelievable. Nicolino Locche. What's his last name? Yeah. Loche? Loche. Lo- Lo- Loche. I'm not sure
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Loche?
13. LJLL Cool J
  Loche. Yo, he is just ... I mean, his ... Like, when you get him, like you can't hit him. Like, that's all Floyd. You see it?
14. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm
15. LJLL Cool J
  You see it, right?
16. JRJoe Rogan
  And this is early
17. LJLL Cool J
  Yo, this is crazy. Look at this
18. JRJoe Rogan
  There wasn't a lot of guys like this back then
19. LJLL Cool J
  Look at this. Look at it. Look, watch this. Look at this. Come on, baby
20. JRJoe Rogan
  Have you ever seen Willie Pep?
21. LJLL Cool J
  Absolutely
22. JRJoe Rogan
  He's another one. Yeah
23. LJLL Cool J
  Absolutely
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Willie Pep's another one. He won an en- an entire round without throwing a punch
25. LJLL Cool J
  Getting ... Yeah, he was unbelievable
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah
27. LJLL Cool J
  Willie Pep. Come on. You know, my, my, um, my uncle was John, um, John Henry Lewis. He was a light heavyweight champion
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
29. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, yeah. John Henry Lewis
30. JRJoe Rogan
  That was your uncle?
1:05:36 – 1:10:27
Rick Rubin and the Def Jam breakthrough: rejection letters, mom’s tax return, relentless calling
1. JRJoe Rogan
  How did you get to know him?
2. LJLL Cool J
  So, so it's so funny. He made a record, he produced a record called It's Yours by T La Rock, and it was on the Streetwise/Party Time label, but it was Def Jam Productions. T La Rock, It's Yours. I bought that record, loved the record, had his number. I still remember his number, 212-420-0666. [laughs]
3. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs] Someone's gonna get the phone call.
4. LJLL Cool J
  [laughs] My bad.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
6. LJLL Cool J
  No disrespect. [laughs]
7. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
8. LJLL Cool J
  No disrespect. And then, so, so I did that and, um, I called him every day. I sent a tape in. Me and my man, my mother... To, to... Let me backtrack a little. So I had sent demo tapes to a lot of labels, um, at that time that I thought might be handling rap, one of them being Sugar Hill, some others, and they all kinda gave me these standard notes. "We can't, we, we can't use your material at this time," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, the standard rejection letter. So my mother found one crumbled up on a shelf. I'm dejected. Now I've been trying for two years. 'Cause I started, became a fan at 8, started writing at 11 or 12. At 14 I started working on demos and a- now here I am s- 16, f- late 15, early 16 working on this demo. I get this rejection. She gets her tax return, you know, you know, um- Shout out to the people who actually get tax returns. Like, that's pretty, you know, you know, that's a whole nother conversation [laughs] I don't want to digress, but anyway, my mother got a tax return, you know, and that tells you everything. She was happy. So that tells you where we were at, right? She... I tell her... She sees the letter. She's like, "Todd, what's wrong?" I'm in there in my room, I'm dejected, I'm depressed. I'm like, "Oh, you know, I'ma quit. I'm not gonna do it no more. I'ma quit. I'ma give up." She said, "No, Todd, you sound as good as, as some of the guys on, those guys on the radio, the people I hear on your tapes. You sound as good as them. You should keep going." I said, "Well, I don't have any equipment, I don't have stuff. I, I can't make a demo. They don't like what I'm doing." She took her tax return and bought me a Korg drum machine. She bought me that Korg drum machine, and me and my man, Frankie, shout out to my man Spin Master Finesse, Frankie. We went, Frankie Forbes, we went out, we went to his house. We were so excited, we didn't even... I couldn't even wait to learn how to program it reading the instructions. We did a pause tape. I'm played, I played the beat, he did the scratching. I played the beat, he did the scratching. I did that, I rapped over it afterwards. Sent that to Rick Rubin at his dorm. He w- he had a dorm, 5 University Place. He was in the dorms at NYU.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
10. LJLL Cool J
  Ad Rock from the Beastie Boys, Adam Horovitz from the Beastie Boys, heard my demo. He played it for Rick. I was calling Rick every day after I sent it. Like, a day or two later, I'm like, "You get the tape yet?" "Nope." "Yo, Rick, you get the tape yet?" "Nope." I would call him, I would call there, like, two, three, four times every day. Finally, Ad Rock heard it, played it for Rick, Rick called me up. Re- well, he called my house. My grandmother picked up, screwed his n- fucked his name up crazy, you know? Ah, duh, duh, duh, Slick Dick Rubin, Dick Doobin.
11. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
12. LJLL Cool J
  You know, my grandma. I'm like, oh, my God, Rick Rubin? She's like, "Uh," you know. So I get... I call him. He's like, "Yeah, come down to the stu- we're gonna go in. Come, come down tomorrow." I go down, I get on the subway, I'm doing handstands on the subway, I'm so damn happy. You know what I'm saying? I'm, like, on the subway platform doing handstands in New York, you know what I mean? Like, literally, like, so happy, I'm, like, turning myself upside down with my-
13. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
14. LJLL Cool J
  ... legs against the beams, like, about to tear this world up.
15. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
16. LJLL Cool J
  I get on the, um, train, go down to 5 University. Rick comes down. I said... He said, "Hey, what's up, man?" I said, "You're Rick?" He said, "Yeah." I said, "I thought you was Black." [laughs]
17. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
18. LJLL Cool J
  Look at him right there.
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh.
20. LJLL Cool J
  And that guy, he looks at me, he goes, "Cool." [laughs]
21. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
22. LJLL Cool J
  And then we go upstairs, we go upstairs, and I'm looking at him with this same attitude. Yo, he's so crazy. We go upstairs. We made a demo called Catch This Break. We made that demo, we went across town right after we made it, and saw Russell Simmons. Played it for Russell. Russell's like, "Eh, same old thing. Sounds like this one to that one and that one." I was like, "Okay." Me and Rick go back in the studio. Ad Rock programs a beat for Rick, Rick produces everything. He gets Jazzy Jay to do scratching. We do, we do this thing, I Need a Beat. Russell, they like us so good, they're gonna start their own label called Def Jam. They're gonna start their own label, not just a production company, but a actual label, and they put that song out, and we ended up going ind- it was independent. We did two singles, that's me and Ad Rock, and then we ended up, you know, it, Def Jam became the thing that people know today.
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Wow.
24. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, but it all started back then. Yeah.
1:10:27 – 1:36:11
Hit-making philosophy: taste, reduction, simplicity, and making people feel something
1. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, how did Rubin get involved? Like, it's such a fascinating character.
2. LJLL Cool J
  So-
3. JRJoe Rogan
  He's such a, like, a, he sees things.
4. LJLL Cool J
  Well, he's a... See, the key, the thing is having a POV and being a fan.
5. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
6. LJLL Cool J
  You don't have to be classically trained in something to have a POV and to be a fan and to have taste. 'Cause ultimately, whether it's us being here, whether it's us picking a T-shirt, a book, a bike, a workout mat, it's about taste. Taste is something that you can't... That's the great delineating factor between a lot of things, is taste. He has great taste.
7. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
8. LJLL Cool J
  Rick can say, "That's cool," and it will be. At least to us, right? We can't... I can't say that everything we ever did is cool to everybody, but to us, it was cool.
9. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
10. LJLL Cool J
  You know what I mean?
11. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
12. LJLL Cool J
  So when we do Rock the Bells, it's like, it's cool.
13. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
14. LJLL Cool J
  You know? It's like, when we do these songs, I Can't Live Without My Radio, Rock the Bells, all this stuff, it's, it, it just felt cool. Jack the Ripper, it just felt cool, you know what I'm saying? To us. And that's how it is, and that's, for h- to me, that's the thing that makes Rick so fun to work with, is because he wasn't afraid to tell you, "Eh, I'm not sure that's it."
15. JRJoe Rogan
  Right.
16. LJLL Cool J
  Like, me and you can't-
17. JRJoe Rogan
  Right, right, right
18. LJLL Cool J
  ... me and you can't have a real rapport if you can't tell me, "Yo, Todd, your T-shirts, I don't know. Whatever," you know?
19. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
20. LJLL Cool J
  We can't... But he would tell you.
21. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
22. LJLL Cool J
  You know? Like, my name, like, you know, like, I had a friend, Playboy Mikey D, I had a fr- a lot of dudes with, like, romantic inclined names that had them kind of names on it. So I was Ladies Love Cool James. He's like, "Yo, that's long for the record, man. You know, for the label, that's a lot to... LL."
23. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
24. LJLL Cool J
  Cool. Let's do it. You know what I mean?
25. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah. Yeah.
26. LJLL Cool J
  Like, it's, it's all those little things, you know, and that's the thing about Rick, you know what I'm saying? Taste is a big deal, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, he, yeah.
27. JRJoe Rogan
  And the fact that you respect his taste.
28. LJLL Cool J
  Oh, 100.
29. JRJoe Rogan
  Like, he's, he's intelligent enough where you'll, like, take it into consideration, 'cause there's a lot of people that have opinions.
30. LJLL Cool J
  So, you know, it's so funny. You're right about that. You know, people always tell you, like, you hear somebody say, "You gotta surround yourself with great people." How do you know they're great people?
1:36:11 – 1:53:31
Mastery and motivation: books as black belts, fear as fuel, and staying in the arena
1. LJLL Cool J
  Absolutely. And you know what else is dope? I'll tell you something, a dope technique that I think is cool, and you may do this. I, I'll read one book for three, four years.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
3. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah.
4. JRJoe Rogan
  Just go back and read it again?
5. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah. Like, my thing is this. If you read a book, y- you became a black belt because you know all the moves, and then you get the degrees because you... I, I mean, it's an endless ocean of information. We know that. But you get it because you... So why not become a black belt in the book?
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Hmm.
7. LJLL Cool J
  How you g- you gonna-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  I see what you're saying, yeah
9. LJLL Cool J
  ... take one lesson and now you know jujitsu, or you're gonna take one... You know shotokan because you, you know, you went for-
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah
11. LJLL Cool J
  ... you know, three lessons? And, or you learned a kata. I mean, let, let's say you, you memorized three katas. Now you're, you're done?
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
13. LJLL Cool J
  Like, no. You have to... So to read a book for three or four years, like, you prob- What's your favorite book?
14. JRJoe Rogan
  [sighs] Boy, I don't know if I have a favorite book. One of the most impactful books for me was a book that I read when I was very young called The Book of Five Rings.
15. LJLL Cool J
  Oh, yeah, Miyamoto Musashi.
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
17. LJLL Cool J
  So, so let's say, let's say, let's say you read Miyamoto Musashi. You, you read that a lot of times, right?
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
19. LJLL Cool J
  But-
20. JRJoe Rogan
  I've read that I don't even know how many times.
21. LJLL Cool J
  But see, but, but-
22. JRJoe Rogan
  I read it a lot when I was young, though, yeah
23. LJLL Cool J
  ... but see, but see what you just said?
24. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
25. LJLL Cool J
  Now imagine consciously doing that. You did it-
26. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah
27. LJLL Cool J
  'Cause Musashi, yo, Book of Five Rings is a really interesting book
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Well, I've read a lot of stuff like that, but the, that was the first one that I read from a guy who killed people with swords
29. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, he was unbelievable
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah, there was a lot of people that had really good books on philosophy-
1:53:31 – 2:30:36
Lost civilizations to AI futures: Antarctica pyramids, ancient tech, dimensions, and time travel
1. LJLL Cool J
  You know what? On a, on a more positive note, I wanna shout it out to my man Eddie, my man Eddie at, um, Competitive Edge Athletics. He loves you, loves the show.
2. JRJoe Rogan
  Shout out to Eddie.
3. LJLL Cool J
  Yeah, my man Eddie O'Boyle. He was like, "Yo, you gotta, yo, you gotta do it, man. You got ... Yo, I want you to go on Joe Rogan, man. Come on."
4. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
5. LJLL Cool J
  "Come on, Todd." I'm like, "Yo, I love Joe. I watch the show."
6. JRJoe Rogan
  Uh-huh.
7. LJLL Cool J
  I love it when we talk about the pyramids and we talk about-
8. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
9. LJLL Cool J
  You know what I mean? Like, lost civilizations and-
10. JRJoe Rogan
  Oh, you get into that shit?
11. LJLL Cool J
  I l- yeah.
12. JRJoe Rogan
  Yeah.
13. LJLL Cool J
  I'm into all the, the, the real shit, like all the lost civilizations, pyramids.
14. JRJoe Rogan
  The lost civilization shit's the most fascinating thing on earth to me.
15. LJLL Cool J
  Yo. Atlantis. They keep finding stuff under the w-
16. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
17. LJLL Cool J
  You know it's all there. First of all, you know what, you know what? I'ma tell you where everything is at. The permafrost.
18. JRJoe Rogan
  Really?
19. LJLL Cool J
  If we could ... Come on. Joe, if we could melt down-
20. JRJoe Rogan
  [laughs]
21. LJLL Cool J
  ... that goddamn per- yo, they f- yo, the permafrost, like you go in Russia and you find that, you know, those permafrost down in there.
22. JRJoe Rogan
  Mm-hmm.
23. LJLL Cool J
  Under there, it's a lot of action. Anywhere that's frozen. Antarctica, Arct- like, anywhere frozen, underneath that, that's everything. It's all there.
24. JRJoe Rogan
  What do you think's there?
25. LJLL Cool J
  I think it's civilizations there.
26. JRJoe Rogan
  You think there's ancient civilizations there?
27. LJLL Cool J
  100%.
28. JRJoe Rogan
  Have you ever seen those things that look like pyramids in Antarctica?
29. LJLL Cool J
  Yes.
30. JRJoe Rogan
  Very weird.

Episode duration: 2:32:18

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Intro

Sneaker talk, comfort hacks, and reconnecting after a 1990s NBC upfront

Getting signed at 16: Def Jam’s origins and being the first act

Boom boxes, public music, and hearing hip-hop’s earliest tapes in New York

Jiu-jitsu as a celebrity reset: humility, skill truth, and beginner mindset

Reading to navigate life: Clausewitz, curiosity, and discipline over ego

Bruce Lee, mixed martial arts, and why pioneers get misunderstood

Hip-hop’s early meaning: invisibility, empowerment, and aspirational bravado

Global spread: touring young, early overseas hip-hop scenes, and culture respect

Athletic bases for fighting: France’s MMA surge, basketball footwork, and ring IQ

Boxing history rabbit hole: elusive legends, family lineage, and soul tests

Rick Rubin and the Def Jam breakthrough: rejection letters, mom’s tax return, relentless calling

Hit-making philosophy: taste, reduction, simplicity, and making people feel something

Mastery and motivation: books as black belts, fear as fuel, and staying in the arena

Lost civilizations to AI futures: Antarctica pyramids, ancient tech, dimensions, and time travel

Get more out of YouTube videos.