Joe Rogan Experience #2576 - Dr. Peter McCullough

1. 0:00 – 0:02

   Intro

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      [upbeat music]

2. 0:02 – 4:13

   Rogan’s backlash and the rise of “misinformation” as a weapon

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. [upbeat music] Dr. McCullough, good to see you, sir.

   2. PMDr. Peter McCullough0:14

      Great to be back.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      You were the first guy that got me canceled, I think, about COVID.

   4. PMDr. Peter McCullough0:20

      Is that true?

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      Yeah. [laughs] It's you... It's either you or Malone. One of you guys was, uh, the beginning of, like, all the, like, the White House and CNN and everything.

   6. PMDr. Peter McCullough0:32

      Oh.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:33

      When they all came down on me.

   8. PMDr. Peter McCullough0:34

      Oh.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:34

      It was, uh, it was your misinformation that all turned out to be true. [laughs]

   10. PMDr. Peter McCullough0:38

       [laughs] I'm so sorry.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       Don't be sorry at all. It was great. Turned out well, uh, for me. Uh, but it was, uh, fascinating to watch. How... What, what has it been like for you these... We haven't seen each other in five years. Um, what has it been like?

   12. PMDr. Peter McCullough0:56

       Well, but, you know, before I came on the first time, uh, uh, had anybody accused you of misinformation before that?

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       No, not really.

   14. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:03

       Had-

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       No, I don't believe so

   16. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:04

       ... had the word even come up?

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       No. I mean, perhaps. I doubt it, though, because we never really talked about anything serious.

   18. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:12

       Do you-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:12

       You know, it was... The, the COVID crisis was, like, the first time I was ever really confronted with a very obvious PSYOP. Like, the, it was, it was very obvious that we were being fed some very-

   20. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:23

       Mm-hmm

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       ... filtered information. We were being gaslit, and there was a narrative that you were being forced to push, and I wasn't going with it. And when I experienced the pushback, I mean, like, like I said, from the fucking White House, like, watching-

   22. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:38

       [laughs]

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       ... the White House press secretary saying that Spotify needs to do more to censor me, and watching... Uh, I mean, Spotify got calls from the president. They got call... My, my management got calls from the White House. It was wild.

   24. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:53

       You know, before 2020, before the pandemic, the word misinformation never appeared in the medical literature.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:01

       Really?

   26. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:02

       Never. And in fact, by 2021, it's called a MeSH term. Now it's an official term in the National Library of Medicine. There are scientific instruments that measure misinformation, that you can actually, uh, assess someone on a COVID-19 misinformation scale.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:23

       Really?

   28. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:23

       So I looked into this and I said, "Where in the world did this come from?" W- this, this word. And you can find it in the English language around 1500. And then, uh, I can tell you, during Nazi Germany, it was Goebbels who was running the office of propaganda. Oh, my Lord, what a useful word they found it as, a propaganda word. So if someone you didn't like, you could accuse them of spreading misinformation.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:52

       Mm.

   30. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:53

       So as soon as you make that accusation, you achieve moral superiority, that you hold information, the person you don't like is spreading misinformation.
3. 4:13 – 6:26

   Pandemic response as “war”: liability shields and doctors as foot soldiers

   1. PMDr. Peter McCullough4:13

      What other circumstance in human life, uh, uh, does it greatly impact people, large numbers of people, and in the end, no one apologizes for harm? Can you think of anything?

   2. JRJoe Rogan4:27

      No, not offhand.

   3. PMDr. Peter McCullough4:28

      How about war?

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:29

      Right.

   5. PMDr. Peter McCullough4:30

      Right? Oh, uh, uh, we went to war. No one ever says, "We made a mistake." No one ever said, "We're sorry." No one ever apologizes when it's a big-time thing like war. And this pandemic, as it rolled out, in many ways it had the characteristics of war in the sense of we were invaded by a virus, and the act- the response was to behave like we were at war. And a lot of the, uh, the statutes that we relied upon, the Bioshield Act and the PREP Act, what have you, uh, uh, you know, they used military terms. Y- you know, there were countermeasures and there were... The public was at risk, and the government was gonna step in and gonna take control. But whatever happened, all of these countermeasures were immune from a liability. So as if the pandemic was a war. Now, maybe you're ready to go to war. Looking at you, Joe, you're, you're so jacked, you're, you could probably take on somebody. Look at me.

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:32

      [laughs]

   7. PMDr. Peter McCullough5:33

      I, I, I can't go to war. Look at me. Um, but what happened in this pandemic, which I thought was very, very interesting, is that we were told, "Listen, there's a war. A virus is coming. The government is providing countermeasures. But oh, wait a minute, you doctors, you're the ones, and the nurses, you're the ones that are gonna have to do the fighting. The g- the CDC doesn't treat any patients. HHS and the FDA doesn't treat any patients. You're gonna have to treat the patients. So in a sense, you're a foot soldier in this war that we didn't ask for." That's where I found myself.

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:07

      Yeah. For the first time in your career

   9. PMDr. Peter McCullough6:09

      For the first time in my career. I said, "Well, what am I gonna do? Well, I have to make some decisions. It's not about shooting rifles, but I have to make medical decisions." And that's what I did, and I made the, what I thought was the best decisions I could make. And before you knew it, as you learned, I got in deep trouble.

4. 6:26 – 9:29

   Global suppression of early treatment and legal pressure on supplements

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:26

      Yeah. Is that the first time that you can recall where people were getting in trouble for correctly treating people that helped them? 'Cause by the use of hydroxychloroquine, by the use of ivermectin, they became so controversial that doctors were getting in trouble and losing their licenses for providing patients with medication that had not just efficacy, but there was, there was real studies that showed that, especially Uttar Pradesh in India, there's studies that show that people that use these medications were more protected and were safer. And-

   2. PMDr. Peter McCullough7:10

      All over the world, Joe. This happened all over the world instantaneously. That was the most astounding thing to me, is that, wait a minute, how can the entire world agree on something all at once? And talk about people losing their license. There were thousands of doctors in France and Australia that l- literally just... It was almost immediate if they had tried to help somebody with COVID. And before you know it, you know, in, in early 2020, the Federal Trade Commission came out with the COVID misinformation policy. The Federal Trade Commission, what do they govern? Nutraceuticals and supplements. Before you know it, a great company in Salt Lake, Clear, Nate Jones, the CEO, Nate Jones gets a lawsuit from the Federal Trade Commission saying, "You're being sued, you personally, Nate Jones, and the Clear Corporation, for studying your products, which are nasal sprays and gargles, against SARS-CoV-2."

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:12

      Just studying.

   4. PMDr. Peter McCullough8:13

      Just studying. He was putting the results on his website. That's all N- Nate was doing. This went on for four years. They tried to drain him dry on legal fees.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:21

      What, what, what was the charges? If, so if the, if they're suing him, what are they saying that he's doing incorrectly?

   6. PMDr. Peter McCullough8:27

      It's violation of their policies, that in a sense, these policies were corrected, were erected. It, it... I faced the same thing with the American Bar of Internal Medicine. I had no idea a policy was coming, but as soon as this policy is violated, now there's an opportunity for the government or whatever authority it is to inflict harm, a professional reprisal against him, in the case of the Federal Trade Commission. Happened to Dr. Eric Neputi, who was running a co- a company, Vitamin D. Eric had great data on vitamin D. It turns out vitamin D, there were seven clinical trials showing it actually helped prevent COVID-19. Those with higher vitamin D levels, they had lesser severity of illness. All the data were positive, no safety concerns. He gets nailed by the Federal Trade Commission, and it just keeps going and going. So something happened, and it was even worse for our colleagues overseas.

5. 9:29 – 13:15

   A coordinated “biopharmaceutical complex” and WHO-centered communication

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:29

      What, what do you think was... What, how did it get uniformly adopted across the entire world? Like, what was done to get all these different countries to put all these different rules in line?

   2. PMDr. Peter McCullough9:47

      All at once. You know, in my first book, uh, I ha- I had to sit down and write a book. This, what happened was so mind-blowing, and you're actually in the book, uh, two of them.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:59

      I'm in the book?

   4. PMDr. Peter McCullough9:59

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan10:00

      Oh, nice. [laughs]

   6. PMDr. Peter McCullough10:00

      The first one is Courage to Face COVID-19. In the title, we come up with this term called the biopharmaceutical complex, and what do we mean by that? Somehow in the world, there was a formation of very powerful entities, and we believe at the core is the World, uh, Health Organization, the World Economic Forum, the Gates Foundation, the Rockefeller Tru- Trust, the, uh, Wellcome Trust, Gavi, CEPI, Unitaid, all regulatory agencies. So we have the MHRA, the E- EMA, SAFRA, TGA, FDA, CDC, NIH. They just became aligned, and this was building over time. You know, these meetings that happen, uh, a lot of these players are on the world stage, and when the WHO put out a, um, white paper in 2019, it was called A World at Risk, and it had a diagram. These are all the pandemics that could happen. Sure enough, SARS-CoV-2 was one of them, or the, uh, SARS pandemic. One of the four principal players at the World at Risk, Anthony Fauci.

   7. JRJoe Rogan11:15

      Shocker.

   8. PMDr. Peter McCullough11:16

      Jeremy Farrar, who was at the Wellcome Trust, who's now the lead scientist at the WHO. And I give credit to investigative author Lisa Myren in Toronto, who investigated this. So listen, the world doesn't agree on an anything. Can't agree on currency, can't agree on policy, can't agree on anything. How can they completely agree on this pandemic response? She believes that the communication centers the WHO. You have, uh, about 190 countries. Uh, you have 140 national focal points, which are branches of the WHO. Ours is in Washington. It's called PAHO, Pan American Health Organization, and she believed all the commands really came out of the WHO through this, this complex. And, you know, it's interesting. People think, "Well, the pharmaceutical companies drove it." Our belief is the pharmaceutical companies are just the suppliers, and the people who benefited was anybody in position For a pandemic. So it wasn't just vaccine companies, but how about companies that made testing or that made gowns and hazmat suits and rubber gloves, and, uh, the companies that did home delivery, and you can keep going on and on and on. So if you were positioned well, one could financially have an unbelievable heyday with pandemics. And one of the groups here is CEPI, the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations. It was founded by Gates Foundation and World Economic Forum and a few companies. They, uh, poured money in 2017. In their business plan, it says there will be a series of pandemics, a series of them. Oh, just one after another, like, like, uh, storms coming in, and in each pandemic, there'll be w- a single response, mass vaccination. So everything is oriented towards, uh, tamping down anything else outside of vaccination.

6. 13:15 – 16:32

   Vaccine liability, redefining “vaccine,” and Moderna’s pre-pandemic timeline

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:15

      Does vaccination in other countries have the same protection from liability that they have in the United States?

   2. PMDr. Peter McCullough13:23

      I don't know. I don't know. I know-

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:25

      That's a problem.

   4. PMDr. Peter McCullough13:27

      Well, in 1986, uh, that's when it was memorialized as-

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:30

      Yeah

   6. PMDr. Peter McCullough13:30

      ... the, the liability protection.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:33

      Sh-

   8. PMDr. Peter McCullough13:33

      And it, it, y- you know, it, it became... What product can essentially be mandated for an entire population and be free of liability?

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:43

      Right, and then w- how can you take a product that's not a vaccine and call it a vaccine, which is essentially a gene therapy? I mean, this is not, it's not a technical vaccine in terms of, like, how we have defined vaccines in the past.

   10. PMDr. Peter McCullough13:57

       The connections here are extraordinary. So let's take Moderna as an example. So Stéphane Bancel, have you had him on your show?

   11. JRJoe Rogan14:08

       No.

   12. PMDr. Peter McCullough14:08

       You should invite him.

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:10

       I didn't even know he existed. Who is he?

   14. PMDr. Peter McCullough14:12

       He's the CEO of Moderna.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:14

       What?

   16. PMDr. Peter McCullough14:14

       He's a, he's a good-looking guy from Europe who's got a really intriguing accent. You know, he's a-

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:21

       He's the CEO of Moderna?

   18. PMDr. Peter McCullough14:22

       He is.

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:22

       Does he have horns? Does he have horns?

   20. PMDr. Peter McCullough14:23

       Yeah. [laughs] Well, listen to this. He's a pharmaceutical representative, and he becomes a dis- co- becomes a distribution supervisor for one of the bigger companies, and he's in Belgium. In 2007, he gets a, a, a, he g- he gets, gets a master's degree. He's well-trained in the United States and Europe as a business executive. He gets the job as CEO of BioMérieux. BioMérieux is a big lab company. They're like Abbott Diagnostics or Roche. They're a big company. 2007. So he's the CEO of a lab company in France. Well, guess what? That lab company in France, guess what one of their contracts is. One of their contracts is to help the Chinese build the biosecurity annex in Wuhan, China, at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Okay? This is beyond belief. So, and they train the Chinese staff. So Bancel is overseeing the company that's doing all this.

   21. JRJoe Rogan15:23

       Hmm.

   22. PMDr. Peter McCullough15:24

       Then in 20- 2011, he leaves BioMérieux. As a young CEO, he's already done very, very well. He joins a tiny company in Cambridge, Massachusetts, Moderna. Moderna. And he's on record telling his wife, "Listen, there's probably less than a 5% chance this will ever be successful." Well, within a few years, they've got contracts to work on messenger RNA vaccines for different viruses. This keeps going and going. 2016, he's got a patent on part of the COVID virus. By 2019, he's communicating with Ralph Baric at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, saying, "Listen, c- can we actually use your viruses and, and challenge our vaccines?" This is before the pandemic. Now we learn that the NIH and Moderna, they co-own the patent to Moderna's vaccine. Trump announces that we have a national emergency. Five days later, Bancel says, "Well, we have a vaccine for that." This was all happening. Nobody was watching.

7. 16:32 – 22:08

   Lab-leak discussion and claims of an organized origin narrative

   1. JRJoe Rogan16:32

      Do you have any suspicions that it was leaked on purpose?

   2. PMDr. Peter McCullough16:36

      I think it came out by accident.

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:39

      So you think they were working on it, someone got sick, and it just got out?

   4. PMDr. Peter McCullough16:43

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:44

      Just bad safety protocols?

   6. PMDr. Peter McCullough16:47

      There are papers now written on this, and we featured it on our, uh, Substack Focal Points. Nicole Schaer has, uh... Of these biolabs, there's leaks all the time. You can barely contain these things. They're very contagious. They're working with very contagious virus, bacteria, fungi, spores, different pathogens. They depend on meticulous ventilation, sterilization. You, you see these pictures of people wearing these moon suits and everything.

   7. JRJoe Rogan17:13

      Yeah, we actually went to the one in Galveston.

   8. PMDr. Peter McCullough17:16

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:17

      My friend Duncan and I, we were filming the, um, Joe Rogan Questions Everything.

   10. PMDr. Peter McCullough17:21

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:21

       It was a sci-fi show-

   12. PMDr. Peter McCullough17:22

       Mm-hmm

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:22

       ... that was on in the, like, 2012 or something. We went down there because we were, we were, we did an episode on biowarfare, and we talked to a guy from the former Soviet Union that talked about-

   14. PMDr. Peter McCullough17:33

       Yeah

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:33

       ... the biowarfare program that Russia had. It was spooky. It was spooky being in that Galveston lab, and these people walking around with these moon suits on, with, you know, the vacuum hoses attached to them. It was very weird. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hook up a better speaker to your TV, and your home theater experience is immediately 10 times better. Or add a little extra treat to your dog's food. They get so happy at dinnertime. Sometimes it's worth it to go that extra step to find people who will do that for your business. Check out ZipRecruiter. Try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. ZipRecruiter has what you need to find great candidates fast, like powerful matching technology to help sort through thousands of resumes and a feature that puts people who are the most interested and most qualified first. Try ZipRecruiter and meet great candidates who'll go the extra step for your job. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. ZipRecruiter, meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

   16. PMDr. Peter McCullough18:51

       Well, listen, if, if people started getting really sick on Galveston Island, that'd be the first place that I would look. I wouldn't-

   17. JRJoe Rogan18:58

       What about the wet lab?

   18. PMDr. Peter McCullough18:58

       I wouldn't go to a fish lab.

   19. JRJoe Rogan19:00

       The wet market.

   20. PMDr. Peter McCullough19:00

       I wouldn't go to a wet market.

   21. JRJoe Rogan19:01

       [laughs]

   22. PMDr. Peter McCullough19:02

       I wouldn't go down the street to a restaurant. I'd go right to that lab.

   23. JRJoe Rogan19:05

       That sounds racist, what you just said.

   24. PMDr. Peter McCullough19:07

       W- Well, Joe, I gotta tell you what, Peter Daszak, who was leading the EcoHealth Alliance, who was helping Baric coordinate with the Chinese, this is astounding. He's involved in this. You have Anthony Fauci leading the NIAID, and this, the, the funding organization that's funding this research. Baric is the mastermind at Chapel Hill. He knows more about coronaviruses than anybody. They get a lot of contracts, uh, to w- work on coronaviruses. They take the research to Wuhan. Peter Daszak is the go-between. He's getting the, these grants to actually help coordinate, uh, what's going on in Wuhan. So when this thing gets out of the lab, this is astounding, and the World Health Organization says, "We wanna investigate the origins of the virus. We're gonna send a team to Wuhan," they contact Brett Giroir, a rear admiral. He went to medical school with me in Dallas, and Brett Giroir was on Trump's White House task force one. Brett Giroir says, "Great, I'll get thr- three American scientists. We'll, we'll dispatch to Wuhan. We'll investigate." The WHO says, "Uh, d- no, don't send us these independent people. We'll take Peter Daszak." The WHO says this. So Peter Daszak goes over to Wuhan. He goes, "You know," he looks around, "Boy, I, I, I can't figure out where this virus came from."

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:28

       [laughs]

   26. PMDr. Peter McCullough20:29

       "But I know one thing, it didn't come from the lab." Didn't come from any of hi- his projects. I mean, this is ridiculous. This all happened under the watch of people. I had no idea that this was going on.

   27. JRJoe Rogan20:42

       Well, it was just bizarre that more people didn't push back against it, and, you know, credit to John Stewart. Did you ever see that John Stewart segment-

   28. PMDr. Peter McCullough20:50

       Yeah

   29. JRJoe Rogan20:50

       ... on The Colbert?

   30. PMDr. Peter McCullough20:51

       Yeah.
8. 22:08 – 31:47

   Lockdowns, masking “madness,” and the expansion to “malinformation” and other labels

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:08

      Well, it's just amazing how coordinated it was with all these different countries, and so many countries instituted these draconian measures. Australia was incredible. New Zealand was incredible. It was bizarre to watch everyone in lockstep.

   2. PMDr. Peter McCullough22:24

      And th-

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:24

      It was really weird

   4. PMDr. Peter McCullough22:24

      ... and, and things that could not have made sense. You know, in Australia, they ha- got to one point, there was a five-kilometer rule, like where you couldn't go more than five kilometers from your house, like, as if the virus, uh, obeyed those boundaries. Or do you remember all the ridiculous things?

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:41

      Yeah.

   6. PMDr. Peter McCullough22:41

      One, one time, L- Laura Ingraham asked me to come on Fox, and, you know, I was always, uh, you know, busy with patients and, you know, having to get over to the studio and have you, and th- [laughs] and I never know what they're gonna show me. So she shows me this, this teenage girl. It's a sunny day, and she's somewhere in the Midwest, and she's running a 1,000-meter race, and she's winning, but they're making all the kids wear masks.

   7. JRJoe Rogan23:02

      Mm-hmm.

   8. PMDr. Peter McCullough23:03

      And she's trying to, you know, get enough what's called minute ventilation. That's the amount of air you can move at the maximum of exercise, through this mask, and she can't do it, and she collapses on the track. She destroys her shoulder. They have her parents on. They're upset, and Laura Ingraham asked me, "Dr. McCullough, is this reasonable? Is it reasonable to wear masks outside?" I said, "No, this has been studied. You c- you... The virus, it diffuses into the air. You don't, you can't contract it outside." In fact, people in Singapore tried to study this.

   9. JRJoe Rogan23:34

      Yeah.

   10. PMDr. Peter McCullough23:34

       So, so people wearing masks outside, yeah. There was one, people saw me wearing masks when they were in Olympic swimming pools, swimming.

   11. JRJoe Rogan23:39

       Yeah.

   12. PMDr. Peter McCullough23:39

       The mask was all... So the masks-

   13. JRJoe Rogan23:42

       Insane

   14. PMDr. Peter McCullough23:42

       ... seemed to come to symbolize a madness. Still if you travel today, you'll still see people wearing masks.

   15. JRJoe Rogan23:48

       You'll see them in Austin. If you go to San Francisco, they're ubiquitous. They're all over the... It's a, well, I say it's like the Democrats' MAGA hat.

   16. PMDr. Peter McCullough23:57

       [laughs]

   17. JRJoe Rogan23:58

       It's, it's, it symbolizes that you are an avowed leftist, that you are on board with all these different things. Do you know the story about the lesbian bar in Massachusetts?

   18. PMDr. Peter McCullough24:08

       No, no. [laughs]

   19. JRJoe Rogan24:09

       You don't? Okay. This is a great story. There was a lesbian bar in Massachusetts in 2026, recently. They're going under. All right, they tried to be communist, and they tried to have no cover charge for people that couldn't afford it, and so of course everyone said they couldn't afford it. They tried to do this, this thing where you just pay what you can. You know, they were trying to be, like, communist. Didn't work. And so they talked to a financial advisor, and one of the things that they had was a mask policy. They had a strict mask policy for this bar, and they said, "Why don't you have one night a week, like Saturday night, where it's mask optional?" And so they instituted this. And so the people that supported the bar, that were regulars at the bar, revolted-

   20. PMDr. Peter McCullough24:55

       [laughs]

   21. JRJoe Rogan24:55

       ... went crazy, threatened to firebomb the bar, threatened violence. It w- it became a national news story. It became s- it's, it's so emblematic of, like, how insane some people got and continued to be that it became a destination where people wanted to go visit just to see how fucking kooky it was.

   22. PMDr. Peter McCullough25:15

       Oh my gosh.

   23. JRJoe Rogan25:16

       So it became a tourist destination. I think it's called The Last Ditch. Is that the name of the place?

   24. PMDr. Peter McCullough25:20

       Yeah, it's now closed because they're trying to find new owners.

   25. JRJoe Rogan25:22

       Aw, crazy.

   26. PMDr. Peter McCullough25:23

       You know, it's madness

   27. JRJoe Rogan25:23

       ... So sad. It went under.

   28. PMDr. Peter McCullough25:24

       It just-

   29. JRJoe Rogan25:25

       Massachusetts lesbian bar makes frantic effort to find new owners after relaxing masking policy in 2026. Now, we knew in 2020 that masks didn't work. In fact, there was one doctor, we played it on the podcast, and we got in trouble for this, where there was one doctor who w- was explaining how a vape, like a n- nicotine vape, that the particles in the vapor are larger than COVID particles, than the COVID virus, and, and oxygen.

   30. PMDr. Peter McCullough25:55

       [laughs]
9. 31:47 – 46:29

   Vaccines as ideology: history from variolation to a Vatican coin

   1. PMDr. Peter McCullough31:47

      So the vaccine, for sure. Uh, uh, have you lost any friends over this vaccine thing?

   2. JRJoe Rogan31:52

      Not real friends.

   3. PMDr. Peter McCullough31:53

      [laughs]

   4. JRJoe Rogan31:54

      Yeah, not... You know, no one that I miss.

   5. PMDr. Peter McCullough31:57

      But ma- many have. Many of the listeners listening to this show will say, "You know what?"

   6. JRJoe Rogan32:01

      Yes.

   7. PMDr. Peter McCullough32:01

      "After the pandemic, somehow things are reordered in my life-"

   8. JRJoe Rogan32:05

      Well-

   9. PMDr. Peter McCullough32:05

      "... that my friends or family."

   10. JRJoe Rogan32:07

       I think it's a good thing. I mean, I think those are the people that you really didn't want as friends in the first place.

   11. PMDr. Peter McCullough32:12

       You know, my field in medicine, we can talk about anything. So if I, uh, if I c- uh, you know, and doctors love to talk shop. That's all we do basically-

   12. JRJoe Rogan32:21

       For sure

   13. PMDr. Peter McCullough32:21

       ... 'cause it's so interesting. So we, we, we're at some social gathering, we're talking about back surgery or talking about a d- new adv- medical advance. We come up to vaccines, I can't talk about it.

   14. JRJoe Rogan32:33

       Right. Why is that?

   15. PMDr. Peter McCullough32:35

       We get the Heisman. We think what's going on, um, is that, and we have this in my second book, it's become an ideology. It's not, it's not scientific.

   16. JRJoe Rogan32:47

       Right. I had Aaron Siri on.

   17. PMDr. Peter McCullough32:48

       A- Aaron, he's on the right-

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:50

       You know, in Vaccines We Trust.

   19. PMDr. Peter McCullough32:51

       He's on the right track.

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:51

       He's on the right path-

   21. PMDr. Peter McCullough32:52

       He's on the right track

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:52

       ... because it's religion.

   23. PMDr. Peter McCullough32:53

       It's become a religion.

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:54

       Yeah.

   25. PMDr. Peter McCullough32:54

       And it turns out in our book, we went all the way back three centuries to figure out where this came from. Where did this come from? How can this become religion? There's not a religion around antibiotics or religion about surgeries or relig- religion about-

   26. JRJoe Rogan33:10

       Right

   27. PMDr. Peter McCullough33:10

       ... radiology. Why is there a religion around vaccines? Well, it turns out there's... Mankind has always had a susceptibility to contagious infectious diseases. Probably more so, by the way, than other mammals. You know, you don't see groups of dogs getting colds and blowing snot or squirrels out there or whatever. For some reason, we're vulnerable. So mankind has been vulnerable to infectious diseases, and so there's always been a fear. We didn't understand them. But when infectious diseases blew in, oh, my Lord. Like when the bubonic plague blew in, you know, thousand years ago, watch out. There's all kinds of bad things that happen. And, and, and y- you see all different types of human behavior when there's fear like this and you don't understand it. And so when this idea that maybe we can do something to prevent these horrible contagious diseases, uh, and, and we had to start somewhere in our book. John Leake, who's the first author, is from, uh, Highland Park, Texas, a great, probably... John's probably one of the world's greatest historians. Uh, uh, we looked around to see where did this idea of giving a vaccine come from, inoculation? We had to start somewhere, and we started with Cotton Mather in 1721 in Boston. Do you have any idea who he was?

   28. JRJoe Rogan34:28

       No.

   29. PMDr. Peter McCullough34:29

       So Cotton Mather, in the late 17th century, turns out he was one of the [chuckles] advisors to the judges in the Salem witchcraft trials.

   30. JRJoe Rogan34:39

       [laughs]
10. 46:29 – 56:17

    Natural immunity vs mandates: pregnancy, prior infection, and alleged harms

    1. JRJoe Rogan46:29

       One of the least scientific aspects of the COVID pandemic was if you had had COVID, they still required you to get vaccinated.

    2. PMDr. Peter McCullough46:39

       Now, that was interesting.

    3. JRJoe Rogan46:40

       Yeah.

    4. PMDr. Peter McCullough46:40

       Because in 2020, when they were doing the clinical trials, this is very important, so Fi- Moderna, Pfizer, Janssen, they said, "Listen," they're doing a clinical trial. "Oh, no, we're not gonna take anybody who's already had COVID. We're not gonna take anybody who has any antibodies to COVID. We're not gonna take women of childbearing potential or pregnant women. No, no, no. The vaccine either is not gonna work or it's not gonna be safe. We just want virgin cases." Okay. Well, they do their clinical trials. December 10th, 2020, when it rolls out, they said, "Well, damn the torpedoes. Everybody takes it." Say, wait a minute. Just two months ago, you excluded people with natural immunity. Now why do they suddenly need it? That's part of this madness about vaccines, and it goes, it goes even further. Now it says, "Listen, you can get COVID any number of times. It doesn't matter. Take more boosters." Take a booster, get COVID, take another booster. And you know, I had patients in Dallas who were, you know, very much, uh, zealots over vaccines. They would go to the pharmacy and say, "You know what? I'm feeling a little insecure. Can I get another shot? Can I just get an extra dose?" Pharmacies would get them an extra dose.

    5. JRJoe Rogan47:54

       [sighs] Do you think that they were vaccinating the people that had had prior in- prior infection because they wanted to get rid of the control group?

    6. PMDr. Peter McCullough48:05

       I think there's a sense in this vaccine world. Part of this vaccine ideology is, you know, man outdoes God, but the vaccines aren't perfect. It's very important. So the vaccinologists will tell you the vaccines aren't perfect, so in order for this to work, everyone must take them. Everyone, without exception. Without exception, because it's for the betterment of humanity. It's for the greater good, and if some people are harmed or somebody's already had the infection and they can't possibly benefit, we don't care, because this is for the greater good. A- and this has gone on for centuries now.

    7. JRJoe Rogan48:44

       But it, that, it literally makes no sense.

    8. PMDr. Peter McCullough48:46

       Well-

    9. JRJoe Rogan48:46

       Like, one of the things we found out very early on was that prior infection was up to seven times more effective of preventing a reinfection So this is something that I brought up to Sanjay Gupta when he came on the podcast.

    10. PMDr. Peter McCullough48:58

        Yeah, what'd he say?

    11. JRJoe Rogan48:59

        He said, well, he said, "You had COVID. Are you going to get vaccinated now?" And I said, "Why?" I said, "No. Why would I? You know that prior infection is far better to prevent a, a, another COVID outbreak. Like, why?"

    12. PMDr. Peter McCullough49:15

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan49:16

        And he had no answer. It didn't make any se- he knew it didn't make any sense, but it's a religious thing. Like, he wanted me... I had another friend of mine who's a vaccine kook who, uh, you know, he was like, "Now that you've had COVID, are you gonna get vaccinated?" I go, "Why would I?" I go, "You know that prior infection is better at preventing a re- a re- getting it again. Like, I don't understand."

    14. PMDr. Peter McCullough49:40

        If you get, if you get chickenpox, you don't go get a chickenpox vaccine.

    15. JRJoe Rogan49:44

        Right.

    16. PMDr. Peter McCullough49:44

        Right? So-

    17. JRJoe Rogan49:45

        It didn't make any sense, but it was this thing where you had to become a part of the team.

    18. PMDr. Peter McCullough49:50

        Well, that's interesting, right? It's almost as if, it's almost as if there was a marking there. You know, have, have you seen on social-

    19. JRJoe Rogan49:57

        Yeah

    20. PMDr. Peter McCullough49:57

        ... social media where people put their, their Band-Aid?

    21. JRJoe Rogan50:00

        Oh, yeah.

    22. PMDr. Peter McCullough50:00

        Remember Jason Kelce? No, Travis Kelce. Travis.

    23. JRJoe Rogan50:04

        Mm-hmm.

    24. PMDr. Peter McCullough50:04

        Travis puts the blue, uh, Band-Aid on.

    25. JRJoe Rogan50:07

        Right.

    26. PMDr. Peter McCullough50:09

        He's part of the team.

    27. JRJoe Rogan50:10

        Well, he also got paid.

    28. PMDr. Peter McCullough50:11

        But, you know, this is the type of thing.

    29. JRJoe Rogan50:13

        He got paid.

    30. PMDr. Peter McCullough50:13

        But there is a symbolism of, of being on a team.
11. 56:17 – 1:18:53

    Monoclonal antibodies, remdesivir, and the “war” on ivermectin

    1. JRJoe Rogan56:17

       point in time. What was that about?

    2. PMDr. Peter McCullough56:20

       There's a paper in Medical Economics, 2020, said Operation Warp Speed's gonna deliver monoclonal antibodies. The US invested in doses for every single one of us. Every single one of us. These monoclonal antibodies, I used them hundreds of times, Joe. They were safe. They were effective. They were mi- mi- miraculous. They really worked. They should have been in every single nursing home. They should have been in every ER, every urgent care. Anybody really sick should have gotten a monoclonal antibody. Do you know of all the patients admitted to the hospital with COVID, only 15% of them got monoclonal antibodies?

    3. JRJoe Rogan56:58

       Well, there was a, there was actually a policy at some hospitals where once you were admitted to the hospital, they would no longer give you monoclonal antibodies.

    4. PMDr. Peter McCullough57:06

       Right, and it happened. I was advising on two patients here in, uh, Texas, just south of Dallas. Husband and wife, he's a pastor, his dad's a pastor. I know him well. Um, the husband and wife get really sick with COVID. They come to the emergency room. They give her monoclonal antibodies and say, "You know, you're well enough. You go home, take care of your five kids." They look at him, he's a little heavier guy. They said, "Oh, you're too sick. We're admitting you." They don't give him monoclonal antibodies, and he dies. It can't be any more clear.

    5. JRJoe Rogan57:37

       But what would be the reasoning to not give him monoclonal antibodies while he's sick?

    6. PMDr. Peter McCullough57:41

       The, uh, that, that reasoning was, "Well, it, that wasn't the way it was tested in clinical trials. It was only tested in outpatients." What my viewpoint on this is that this is where clinical judgment comes in, and if I was running the show at the top, I would have made sure everyone got these monoclonal antibodies, and when my patients were anywhere close to the ER, I made sure that they got these monoclonal antibodies. I held them up in the ER. I said, "Listen, you're not going into the hospital until you get monoclonal antibodies." But it took that type of forceful clinical approach to make that happen, and the fact that people were denied monoclonal antibodies, which were emergency use authorized, fully FDA endorsed, expensive, Operation Warp Speed, that tells you something. That tells you something about what this pandemic was really about.

    7. JRJoe Rogan58:33

       Well, the, what it, I had heard was they wanted to, they wanted to limit the use of monoclonal antibodies because they felt that it contributed to vaccine hesitancy. And so one of the things that happened during the pandemic was when I had gone public with, uh... I made this video and said that I got, uh... What, what happened was I had some shows that I was doing with Dave Chappelle, and we had to cancel the shows, and I had to say in this video, "Hey," um, I think it was, it was Nashville or New Orleans. I had to say, "Hey, we have to cancel the show this weekend. I had COVID." This was when CNN turned my face green on television. I'm sure you saw that, right?

    8. PMDr. Peter McCullough59:14

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan59:15

       Um, I had said all the different things that I took, and I said, "I feel great. I'm fine, but we have to cancel the shows. We'll reschedule them." And that's when I started getting attacked. But what ha- what happened was I had gotten phone calls from everyone that I knew who knew anyone who got sick. Um, "What did you take? My aunt is sick."

    10. PMDr. Peter McCullough59:35

        Mm-hmm.

    11. JRJoe Rogan59:35

        "My uncle's sick." I sent nurses, private nurses, to I don't even know how many people. I lost track of it. I just had an account, and I paid for all of it. I just had sent nurses to people.

    12. PMDr. Peter McCullough59:47

        Yeah.

    13. JRJoe Rogan59:47

        People that I didn't even know.

    14. PMDr. Peter McCullough59:48

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan59:48

        Actors that I never even met in person.

    16. PMDr. Peter McCullough59:50

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan59:51

        They reached out to me on Instagram. I called them. We talked. I sent a nurse to them. I paid for all of it. I don't know how much I spent. I spent a lot of money on it. I just sent... I was like-

    18. PMDr. Peter McCullough59:59

        Good for you

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

        ... "Look, I'm gonna save these people's lives."

    20. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:00:01

        Yep.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:00:01

        And one of the things that we administered to them was monoclonal antibodies. Um, and I did it to a lot of fucking people, man. A lot of people, all over the country. Comics, all these different people.

    22. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:00:12

        Yeah, you remind me of this gal I met on social media, on Instagram. Her name is Nurse Michelle. You should, uh, check her out. She's about middle-aged, got, like, a bunch of kids, and she's just a good lady in rural north, uh, Georgia. She saw this happening. She said, "This is so horrible. I don't care about the law. I don't care about the rules." She stocked up her minivan with every drug she could possibly get ahold of from overseas, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, antibiotics, steroids. She reached out to me. I had published the McCullough Protocol in The American Journal of Medicine. She goes, "I'll follow your protocol, Dr. McCullough." She went around Georgia just treating patients. She didn't have a medical license. She just did it. She goes, "I don't care. This is about saving lives That's what people did. And I, I kn- I met people in South Africa doing that, in Southeast Asia. This, going back to the analogy we used, this was a war.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:07

        Yeah, what I was gonna get to was-

    24. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:01:09

        It was a war

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:10

        ... somewhere along this process, uh, we couldn't get access to monoclonal antibodies anymore.

    26. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:01:15

        Right.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:01:15

        So I was sending all these nurses out to d- administer IV vitamins, a b-

    28. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:01:21

        Yeah

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:01:21

        ... a bunch of, a bunch of different things. And then it got really difficult to get monoclonal antibodies.

    30. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:01:26

        Yeah.
12. 1:18:53 – 1:29:29

    Vaccinating during a pandemic, leaky vaccines, and mandates after transmission was known

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:18:53

       There's another thing I wanna talk to you about when it comes to vaccination during a pandemic. Previous literature had pointed to discouraging vaccination during a pandemic because it encouraged variants.

    2. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:19:08

       Y- uh, uh, Geert Vanden Bossche, uh, a virologist, uh, he's actually a doctor of veterinary medicine, but he had, uh, put that statement out In a valid way, that we should never vaccinate in a pandemic. Never. Because when you get a viral infection, it's up there in the nose, you know, it's percolating, by the way, for about a week, you never know it's there, and then it drains back to the throat, the lymphatics. You get a sore throat, that's the first sign you think you have a virus, you've already had it up here for about seven days. It's percolating. You're n- you don't have a single viral strain. You probably have a thousand different substrains. Just, uh, the virus replicates, it makes little mistakes. You introduce a vaccine. The vaccine has antibodies. The antibodies in the nose are called IGA. There's certain cells that can recognize the, um, the virus in the nose. They're keyed in on a certain strain. Well, the virus that's there that can escape this and thrive, it's gonna thrive. That's evolution- that's an evolutionary principle. So of course, in a widely prevalent respiratory viral pandemic, vaccination is the worst strategy

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:20:19

       Especially with a leaky vaccine, a vaccine that does not prevent infection and doesn't-

    4. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:20:23

       It, it's not, it's not sterilizing

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:20:24

       ... right.

    6. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:20:24

       Right. See, it, it's not sterilizing and it can't be sterilizing. I- if you had... Because the vaccines were all coded for one part... Oh, and Joe, I have to give you a virus at this stage.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:20:36

       You gotta give me a virus?

    8. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:20:37

       Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:20:37

       Oh, boy.

    10. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:20:38

        Um, I brought this all the way from Amazon.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:20:43

        You're gonna give me a virus from the Amazon?

    12. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:20:45

        Yes. And-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:20:47

        Oh, amazon.com?

    14. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:20:48

        Here you go. I- I'm gonna give you three of them.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:20:50

        Oh, okay.

    16. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:20:50

        So here you go.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:20:51

        Great.

    18. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:20:51

        So this is the example.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:20:52

        Am I sick now?

    20. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:20:53

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:20:54

        How does that work?

    22. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:20:54

        So, uh, listen, all these guys are all SARS-CoV-2, but they're a little different, okay?

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:20:59

        Okay.

    24. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:21:00

        So the vaccines, Pfizer, Moderna, Janssen, and Novavax, they're only directed against the spike protein, which is this little spike on the surface. It turns out there's, like, 30 other proteins inside the nucleocapsid. So all the virus has to do is change its spike protein a little bit, and it's free. See, it's very different than a sterilizing vaccine. A sterilizing vaccine would be comprehensive against many, many different proteins. Even if you changed a little bit, you could... Your body's immune system could wipe it out.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:21:32

        Can you give me an example of a sterilizing vaccine?

    26. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:21:35

        You know, there, there's not good examples for viral vaccines. So for instance, influenza vaccines are not sterilizing. Pertussis vaccines are not sterilizing. Um, it's hard to understand. Maybe some of the, um, bacterial, um, vaccines. I'd have to put some... I'd probably have to consult an expert-

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:21:52

        Okay

    28. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:21:52

        ... on this, to tell you the truth. But, but the idea is, for sure, going after the spike protein alone was a mistake, because th- th- that's actually the most [laughs] pleomorphic or mutational part of the whole virus. You know, the, the, the envelope protein, the nucleocapsid, they don't change that much, but the virus would just say, "Listen, I'll just change the spike protein." And so there were papers by Accorsi, Acherian, uh, and others, that measured the viral load in the nose and mouth of the vaccinated and unvaccinated, and they were the same. This is in 2021. So vaccinated were going around with the virus, and they were equally as contagious. They were infecting other vaccinated people, and there was a, a paper from Houston, Fahrenholz, that an entire vaccinated wedding, and they all got COVID, even though they had all taken the vaccine. So in August of 2021, Rochelle Walensky comes out, and this is a, this is a press release, said, "Listen, got a news release. The vaccines are not stopping transmission of the virus." She says it officially. What happens within a few months? All the employers in the Biden administration and the athletic teams say, "Vaccine mandates." So they mandated the vaccines after the knowledge that they don't stop transmission. The only reason to ever mandate a vaccine would be that it was gonna protect the workplace.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:23:16

        One of the more egregious bits of propaganda was Rachel Maddow on TV saying, "The virus stops with you." W- you remember that?

    30. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:23:24

        Yeah.
13. 1:29:29 – 1:39:31

    Rogan’s near-vaccination, vaccine adverse events, and adenoviral clot risks

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:29:29

       Well, I couldn't see it right away. I almost got vaccinated. You know, the UFC allocated a bunch of vaccines for all of their employees. We were doing shows during the pandemic in a place called the Apex Center. The Apex Center is a very small arena that the UFC has, and what they did was they had shows where they would put on fights, but they COVID tested everyone, and, uh, all the staff, all the corner people, and all the fighters. And so you would show up. You... I got tested before I got on a plane. I landed, I went to Vegas, I got tested in Vegas, and then you had to isolate, and then you had to show up for the event. They told me, "We have the COVID vaccine. Do you want to take it?" And I said, "Sure." This is early. The UFC was the first-

    2. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:30:13

       What month?

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:30:13

       ... organization

    4. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:30:14

       What month?

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:30:15

       It, um, p- I wish I could remember. I don't. But it was j- the Johnson & Johnson is what they had allocated. One shot, you're done. I'm like, "Okay, give it to me." So I showed up on a, a Saturday, and, uh, I showed up for the event, and I said, "Hey, can you vaccinate me?" I was gonna get vaccinated before the fights. So I got there in the morning, and I was like, "Can you guys vaccinate me?" And they said, "Yeah, we're gonna get the, the doctor. We'll call you right back." And then they said... A- I ca- talked to the doctor. He said, "We can't do it here. Can you come to the clinic on Monday?" I said, "I can't come on Monday. Um, I have to leave tomorrow, but I'll be back in two weeks for the next event. Can we do it then?" They said, "Yes." Great. During that two v- two weeks, two people I knew had strokes. Two people-

    6. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:30:57

       After taking the shots?

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:30:57

       After taking the shots. Two people

    8. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:30:58

       That you knew personally?

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:30:59

       Yes. One that I didn't know personally, that, but m- a good friend of mine knew

    10. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:31:04

        You heard. Yeah

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:31:04

        And then one that I knew. And, and a bunch of people got really ill, and it was weird. And I said, "Hang on" What's going on here? And that's when I started to get a little hesitant, 'cause one of the guys was 50 years old and very healthy, and I was like, "This is weird." It was weird. Um, and I just started getting a little nervous, and I was never vaccine hesitant at all. In fact, uh, there's been podcasts before where I was mocking people were- that were anti-vaccine. I thought that was ridiculous. Like, I, I had thought that all the science had been settled. Vaccines were the most important... I mean, I had a joke that I did in my p- my last comedy special. Before COVID, I thought vaccines were the most important invention in human history. After vaccines, or after COVID rather, I was like, "I don't think we went to the moon." Because I was like, "I think there's so much horseshit, there's so much lies, and so much propaganda," I'm like, "This is... I don't believe anything anymore. Like, this is crazy." So I had gone through that, and then I said, "Okay, let me figure out what's gonna happen." Then my family got sick, and my wife got sick, and my kids got sick, and I never got it. I had a couple of days where I felt a little weird in the gym, so I just worked out lightly. But I work out almost every day, and I have a very strict vitamin protocol.

    12. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:32:20

        Hmm.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:32:20

        And I, um, I take vitamins every day, and I take a bunch. I take all kind-

    14. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:32:26

        [laughs]

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:32:26

        I take vitamin D, I take vitamin A-

    16. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:32:28

        Oh, right

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:32:29

        ... K2-

    18. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:32:30

        Bring it on

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:32:31

        ... D3.

    20. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:32:31

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:32:31

        I take it all. And I'm very healthy, and I think it's a part of that, and I'm, I'm a firm believer in supplementation. This is not just voodoo, it's just me talking to scientists, and me talking to doctors-

    22. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:32:41

        Hmm

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:32:41

        ... and me talking to athletes, in particular. And so, uh, I was hesitant, uh, about it then. And then I knew multiple people that had problems, multiple people that had real problems. One of, one of my friends had to get a pacemaker. He was-

    24. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:32:55

        What?

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:32:55

        ... in his 40s. Yeah. Um, uh, another one that I knew started blacking out. He had to get a p- it was a f- a friend of mine, a good friend of mine's brother, who was a dentist, he had to get a pacemaker, and he was in his 30s. Okay? It was, it got really fucking weird, and I was like, "What is going on here?" Now, I'd, I had already known about certain side effects of pharmaceutical drugs that had been suppressed. Um, th- you know, one of 'em was, uh, Vioxx, because I knew a guy who had a stroke who was a UFC fighter, who was a real, a elite athlete, and he had, you know, knee problems and arthritis, and he took Vioxx, had a stroke. And I was like, "What the fuck is going on?" I was like, "So- something weird is happening." And I knew that vaccine, or ex- excuse me, pharmaceutical drug companies would put out medications that they knew were gonna have potential deadly side effects. And Vioxx wound up killing somewhere around 50,000 Americans, right? So I started getting hesitant. But then when my family got it and I didn't get it, I mean, I slept with my wife, I slept in the bed with her, had sex with her.

    26. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:33:58

        Hmm.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:33:58

        Um, I hugged my kids. I didn't do shit. I didn't wear a mask. I didn't... I go, I'm like, "I'll, uh," I'm like, "I think I'll just get it and get it over with." But I didn't get it. I was like, "This is weird." I thought this shit was just gonna get you-

    28. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:34:09

        Hmm

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:34:09

        ... like a ghost. It was gonna haunt you, and you're, if, if you're around people that have COVID, you're fucked. But no, I didn't get it at all. And the only time I got it was a couple, like a year later or two, whatever it was. I was in Florida, and I had done a bunch of shows. I was doing arenas, right? So I was doing stand-up comedy in front of-

    30. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:34:30

        Hmm
14. 1:39:31 – 1:49:40

    Persistent spike production, booster uptake decline, and “spike detox” claims

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:39:31

       Now, one of the things that's really disturbing is reports that people today, five years after they've been vaccinated, their body's still producing spike proteins.

    2. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:39:45

       We published the first, Holscher and colleagues. We published this in the, um, European Society of Medicine Medical Archives. Patient of mine. He's, uh, worked for a pharmaceutical company. He's trying to do the right thing. Uh, in 2014, before the pandemic, he has a blood clot, which people can have, and, and, uh, he got treated for it. So we knew clinically he was at risk for blood clots, so he takes two Pfizers. What happens? He gets blood clots, and they shoot to his lungs with two Pfizers, and he develops myocarditis, proven by MRI. His employer says, "Listen, it's time for boosters. You gotta take a booster." He takes a booster. He has even more blood clots. He said, "Listen, this is nuts. I'm gonna die with these things." So he sees me. We engage in research. We do blood tests, skin biopsies, everything, and we do repeated samples. We use a lab in Germany doing research. We find Pfizer intact and circulating in his blood, and the spike protein, for three and a half years after the shot. How in the world can the vaccine be there? There's little pieces of code for it, and it has to do with a Nobel Prize-winning advancement called pseudouridination. And what happened is, in the development of messenger RNA, which is a very long development history. It goes back to the '80s. There's a paper by Lealoni and colleagues, uh, that outlines this. There's... People have been working on this forever, 'cause it's, it's a wonderful way to make a peptide, by the way. T- talk about making designer peptides, messenger RNA would be a great way to make peptides, 'cause that's what it does. So you take messenger RNA, and y- your body is making it right now. It's, it's reading it. It's producing proteins. You're produc- You're pr- You're making proteins. You and I are making proteins when we're talking to each other. That messenger RNA is single use. Natural messenger RNA is dissolved by RNases, ribonuclease. So it's single use, and you make more. You ma- So when synthetic messenger RNA came along, and you gave it to patients back in the '80s or '90s, the body would dissolve it. Wouldn't do much. And then the idea, and Kariko and Weissman had this idea. There's four base pairs for ion, uh, RNA, adenine, guanine, um, uh, thymosine, and, uh, uracil. Replace the uracil with a synthetic nucleoside analog called pseudouridine. So what happened in the Pfizer and M- Moderna development program, and Kariko and Weissman had, you know, were gonna win the Nobel Prize for [chuckles] inventing this in, in, in 2022, and they got it, is they said, "Okay, let's replace 25% of the uracil, see if it lasts longer." Well, it lasted a little bit longer. [sniffs] "Well, how about replace half of them?" Lasted even longer. And they got down to the end. They had to make a decision, and they said, "Damn the torpedoes. Replace all of them." And when they did that, they made a synthetic messenger RNA that appears to be nearly completely resistant to any human breakdown. It's synthetic. And so now there's a, a molecule in people's bodies that for some, they can't degrade it. They can't get rid of it, and one of these is my patient. Now, there's polymorphisms in our enzymatic clearance system. Some people have loss-of-function mutations in there. They're the ones who are probably accumulating messenger RNA. Other people are clearing this out just fine. But the scary proposition is there are people who have taken this vaccine, Pfizer, Moderna, it's still in their body. It's still producing spike protein. It's accumulating, and then sure enough, look what just happened to, um, Chris Murphy. Sure enough, four years after a shot, stroke.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:43:38

       [sighs] And people are still taking this?

    4. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:43:44

       Very few.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:43:45

       But enough that I've seen people post about it online, like o- openly bragging, or at least-

    6. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:43:54

       Y- you know, the-

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:43:54

       ... signaling that they're-

    8. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:43:57

       The-

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:43:57

       ... following the science.

    10. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:43:58

        The CDC quit keeping track of who actually took boosters in 2023.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:44:05

        Why?

    12. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:44:05

        [sighs] Almost certainly because of low uptake. And so what happened is they rely on what's called NIS, the National Immunization Survey, which is a robo phone call. Talk about getting robo phone calls, this is election day and y- y- you know, they were pouring in last night. So a robo call comes in and says, "Hey, we wanna talk to you about taking vaccines. Are you gonna take a COVID vaccine?" They ask you a bunch of questions, and it's only those people who answer it. So the CDC started in 2023, said, "Listen, we think 15% of people are taking boosters," from a robo call, not from actual data. So last year, McCullough Foundation said, "Listen..." And as a foundation, I started to do research, since our organizations are not doing the research that we need. We said, "Listen, let's take the data from Pfizer and Moderna, the sales data, where they said they sold the vaccine units, what they charged for it, what the revenue was, what the wastage was, and we can figure out how many doses were delivered." Answer: last year it was 8.9% of people took a booster. Last year. This year, I think it's gonna be under 5%.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:45:09

        That's still a lot.

    14. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:45:11

        I know, but a government's y- you know, contracting for billions of dollars.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:45:15

        Right, but, uh, uh, which is horrifying. But if all the things that you're saying are true, and that the r- risk outweighs the reward, and that with many people, your body continues to produce-

    16. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:45:27

        Mm-hmm

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:45:27

        ... spike protein years later, how in the world are they still prescribing this?

    18. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:45:32

        I think there's some people who clear it out. Listen, my neighbor's somebody, he's taken every shot. He, he, he... To him, it's like an elixir.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:45:39

        [laughs]

    20. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:45:40

        He, he, he, he, he is fine, and I have people in my family who I find out they have very high antibody levels to the spike protein, meaning the messenger RNA is chugging away at spike protein. But this is another part to the secret here. If you have the vaccine in you and you're producing lots of spike protein, these little spikes, but the antibodies that are made to it are perfectly keyed to the spike protein, gonna neutralize it, neutralize it, neutralize it. It's a perfect sy- system. Now, it may not prevent COVID because a variant over here can just get around it, but you're gonna stop the vaccine spike protein being produced. If there's any wrinkle in that, and there's IgG1 and 2 neutralize the spike protein, but IgG3 and 4, particularly 4, do not. If there's what's called IgG subclass switching, and we get to, you know, the immune system essentially gets tired of seeing this, and get to IgG4, then you have unopposed spike protein. Now we're in trouble, because if there's unopposed spike protein, there's a paper by Yonkers and colleagues in circulation showing that's what damages the heart. So it explains why you can have one of these athletes, and he's going along fine, took some shots several years ago, and all of a sudden, boom, a cardiac arrest. That's called COVID vaccine subclinical myocarditis, and then a cardiac arrest. We've seen this in athlete after athlete after athlete. Uh, you know, when Damar Hamlin went down for the Buffalo Bills, you know, he's, he's playing, God bless him, but when he went down, Fox called me. Tucker was... That was back when Tucker was on Fox. And they said, "Listen, you know, a cardiologist, can you come on?" And so I, I watched it. In fact, I had a friend there at the game. We were texting about what was going on. I said, "Sure, I'll go on." And, and the first thing that I was asked is, "What do you think caused his cardiac arrest?" And I said, "Well, the tackle is ruled out." This is very important. When there's trauma, is what we have what's called the mechanism of injury. The mechanism of injury is your common sense assessment of can this mechanism cause this event? So if you had a car wreck like this and there was a broken neck, you'd say, "No, the neck was not broken from the car wreck," right? The, the mechanism wasn't sufficient. When you have a football helmet and there's a breastplate, there's no way that can precipitate a cardiac arrest. It's never happened in the history of pro football, ever. So I knew it wasn't the tackle. He had tackled him. He got up. He was about ready to clap or adjust his helmet, and then he collapsed. That's a vaccine cardiac arrest. He had a big surge of adrenaline. He had vaccine myocarditis. A... That's the perfect milieu for a cardiac arrest. He got very good resuscitation. He probably aspirated some Gatorade, 'cause I was watching what was going on, so he had some of that in his lungs. Gets to the hospital, has a perfect resuscitation, perfectly normal cardiac function, no heart failure. He passed all his tests, and in fact, I was watching that and I said, "You know what? If he got McCullough protocol spike detoxification," which is my second contribution to what's going on here, "and he can get rid of this spike protein, and he needs critical drug treatment," was a drug called colchicine, which is very safe, but all the myocarditis patients need colchicine. I said, "I bet he can avoid getting a defibrillator." Virtually everybody has to get a defibrillator if they have a primary arrest, because this is a form of cardiac arrest that's treatable with spike detoxification, which is nattokinase, bromelain, and curcumin, and natural products, plus colchicine. Super important. And we wrote the Buffalo Bills doctors, wrote the Buffalo Evening News. Of course, they never write back, but I would lay odds that Damar Hamlin has gotten my protocol. He's never needed an ICD, and he's back playing. So this is very important, and I have many patients in my practice like this. They don't need ICDs. This is a very important message. If there's vaccine myocarditis and a cardiac arrest, if they're appropriately treated for the spike protein and get this out of the heart and out of the system, they can be fine.

15. 1:49:40 – 1:58:31

    Athlete cardiac events, mandates in sports, and claims about vaccine cards

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:49:40

       Well, we saw a lot of athletes during the pandemic drop.

    2. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:49:45

       Yes.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:49:46

       And it was really disturbing, particularly soccer players who have some of the best cardio you've ever seen

    4. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:49:51

       Yeah

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:49:51

       . Uh, car- soccer is all about cardio. It's all about leg strength and cardio-

    6. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:49:55

       Yeah

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:49:55

       ... and coordination obviously, but they're running constantly. If you ever watch-

    8. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:49:58

       Yeah

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:49:59

       ... a live professional soccer match, it's extraordinary. I mean, these guys are constantly sprinting, and it wasn't a common thing to see them drop, but we saw a lot of it during the pandemic.

    10. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:50:10

        It was, uh, Panagis Polykretas and myself published in European leagues, uh, pro and semi-pro, under age 35. We had all the data. Tenfold increase in 2021 when they rolled out the vaccines, and they forced them to take it.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:50:22

        Tenfold.

    12. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:50:22

        Tenfold. And the best example is, uh, Christian Eriksen, Danish, uh, soccer player. He has a primary cardiac arrest. For sure, you know, e- everybody denies the vaccines or their managers. They, they, they took, they all took the vaccines. I mean, I should tell you right now, they did. And, uh, he, he actually gets a defibrillator. He gets a subcutaneous ICD. My fear is that he never got appropriately treated with, uh, spike detoxification and with colchicine, and you know, about five years later, he just had a second arrest, and, and the defibrillator saved him. But check on your patients who needed pacemakers. I guarantee they had vaccine myopericarditis, and I have patients like this too. None of my pacemaker patients now actually need the pacemaker. So th- they can interrogate their pacemakers, Joe, and they can ask the question, does the body need the pacemaker now, or is the body managing its own rhythm? If they're appropriately ... And at Wellness Company, we've come up with, um, s- uh, uh, Ultimate Spike Detox, which is one. If you go on Amazon, you'll find a, a lot of these products, but Ultimate Spike Detox is high dose, medicinal grade nattokinase, bromelain, and curcumin, which most people need to get out of this problem. It's vital. It's the reason why we formed The Wellness Company in 2022, because we were fulfilling an unmet need.

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:51:41

        What was the, um, rate of adoption in professional sports in the United States? Was it all sports? I know the NFL, my friend Aaron Rodgers had a real issue-

    14. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:51:51

        Mm-hmm

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:51:51

        ... obviously. You know that story.

    16. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:51:53

        Yeah

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:51:54

        Where he was actually allergic to one of the ingredients-

    18. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:51:58

        Mm-hmm

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:51:58

        ... in one of the vaccines, so he had a very legitimate medical reason-

    20. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:52:01

        Sure

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:52:02

        ... for not taking it.

    22. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:52:03

        Sure.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:52:03

        And yet he was raked over the coals.

    24. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:52:07

        Well, didn't, didn't they make him wear a special band and-

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:52:09

        Oh, yeah

    26. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:52:10

        ... a- a- and all of this. Uh, it, but isn't it interesting? You have Aaron Rodgers. At the time, Aaron was the number one quarterback in the league, at that time. He was the number one. You had the number one tennis player, Novak Djokovic. You had Kyrie Irving, who was probably one of the top people in the NBA. All of them said, "Listen, my body is more important than this. I don't need this vaccine." Eric Clapton, greatest guitar player in the world, doesn't... You know, he takes the vaccine-

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:52:39

        Well, he took it and had a horrible reaction

    28. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:52:40

        ... and he had a horrible time. But-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:52:41

        And was really attacked.

    30. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:52:43

        Right
16. 1:58:31 – 2:15:08

    Cancer concerns, SV40 manufacturing discussion, and near-universal exposure claims

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:58:31

       I think you're right. Another thing I wanna talk to you about, cancer. How many people who took these vaccines have aggressive cancer? And ironically, including the former CEO of YouTube, who actively suppressed all the information about anything that had anything that was remotely critical about the vaccines, she got cancer.

    2. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:58:59

       Oh, boy.

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:58:59

       Like super aggressive cancer, and died.

    4. PMDr. Peter McCullough1:59:05

       As a doctor, if you were to tell me there's a product, a biopharmaceutical product, that would cause heart damage and myocarditis, and cardiac arrest, and heart failure, and blood clots. The spike protein is directly in the blood clots, and it would cause autoimmune problems because the body attacks itself because the spike protein is on the cell surfaces, and it causes neurologic problems like transverse myelitis and Guillain-Barré syndrome, of which all... Those four disease categories, for sure the vaccines do. If you were to say, "Listen, Dr. McCullough, just for kickers, it causes cancer," I'd say, "Come on. How can one product do all this?" This is a mind-blowing reality. So a paper that caught my attention was by, um, was by, uh, uh, um, Bustos, and it was published in Curious Journal of Biomedical Sciences, and it's titled "The Multi-Hit Hypothesis of COVID-19 Oncogenesis." That is, how the vaccines can actually promote cancer, and it showed a variety of mechanisms. And Sutherland and Baylor, 1984, said, "Listen, if something's gonna cause cancer, it's not by a single mechanism. It has to be by multiple mechanisms," meaning multiple things. So a good point is smoking causing lung cancer. It's because there's 2,000 components to tar. It, there's too many things together that can cause cancer. So it makes sense that, geez, the COVID vaccines, how could this happen? Well, the messenger RNA can impair DNA repair 'cause it gets in, it kinda screws up the genetics. The, um, spike protein can interfere, and does interfere, with two major suppressor systems that actually help defend against cancer, P53 and BRCA. That we have a situation where now a paper by Cantazaro and Hulscher has shown there's probably about three dozen mechanisms by which the scale has been tilted towards cancer. Now, this year, a paper by, um, [lips smack] uh, El-Deiry, who's at Brown, uh, Wafik El-Deiry, very well-respected oncologist, has analyzed this. There are 66 peer-reviewed papers showing both the infection and the COVID vaccines probably tilt the human equation towards cancer. The vaccine's far more, but just the infection alone. I'm greatly concerned. 2025, Joe, Time Magazine, on its cover, has all these young people and says, "Where's all this cancer coming from?" Wait, a- and, and Katie Couric is out there on pod- podcast, "Where's all this cancer coming from?" They go out to cancer centers all over the United States. Time Magazine said, "Well, what do you think's going on? Cancer in certain areas, not all cancers, but some cancers are really skyrocketing." And the doctors say, well, they look around, "Well, maybe it's cell phones. Maybe it's microplastics. Maybe it's something in the air. Maybe it's..." None of them considered the fact that we just went through a worldwide pandemic with a virus that was synthesized in a Chinese biosecurity lab, and that two-thirds of the world had taken genetic vaccines. Not a single person they interviewed thought of that.

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:02:31

       No, I guarantee they thought of it. They just didn't want to say it.

    6. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:02:33

       This is... It's, it's a mind-

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:02:35

       They're still averse to saying it

    8. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:02:36

       ... blowing reality. Did you see the, the Irish runner, uh, Mageean, who just died?

    9. JRJoe Rogan2:02:41

       Yes.

    10. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:02:42

        Oh, my Lord. Now, okay, 2024, she wins a world championship in the thousand meters. You know what it takes to, as a woman, to win at th- She has to be perfectly healthy in 2024. Here we are, 2026, you know, three-quarters of the way through the year, and she's dead of colon cancer.

    11. JRJoe Rogan2:03:02

        Aggressive.

    12. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:03:03

        It's unheard of. Joe Biden, sitting president of the United States. Now, listen, his doctor is O'Connor, and I can tell. I'm in practice. I see patients every day. I'm an internist cardiologist. I examine men. I examine their genitalia, prostate exam. I order the tests. I don't have a single patient in my practice in that tenure that has developed widespread metastatic Gleason grade nine prostate cancer. So here Joe Biden is in the White House, and it happens under the watch of everybody right there. He's publicly taken six vaccines. I think Joe Biden has COVID vaccine turbo cancer. He's a classic example. And on top of that, I think Joe Biden has a neurologic syndrome that looks like a vaccine syndrome. I mentioned-

    13. JRJoe Rogan2:03:49

        Well, he's also had strokes

    14. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:03:51

        ... he's had subarachnoid hemorrhage.

    15. JRJoe Rogan2:03:52

        Yeah.

    16. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:03:53

        He's had craniotomies. He's had s- So he's been kind of set up. But a paper by Ohta and colleagues from Japan showed the messenger RNA is in the brain. It's physically in the blood vessels-

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:04:04

        Oh

    18. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:04:04

        ... in the brain. And, and in my practice, Joe, which is I see, you know, hundreds if not thousands of patients who have problems after the vaccines, when they develop a syndrome, it's not classic. So when it's a neurodegenerative disorder, it's not classic Alzheimer's and it's not classic Parkinson's, but a blend, and that's what Biden has. So he sh- he shuffles his gait. He's kind of looking forward. He looks like he's gonna fall forward, but he doesn't have other features of it. It's not classic. And there's a paper by Roh and colleagues from Korea. 8 million Koreans. They showed that these neurologic disorders, when they take off after the shots, they skyrocket within a few months. Not everybody gets them, but many of your listeners will, will tell us that, "Yeah, my loved one took a shot, and they developed rapid dementia or rapid Parkinson's or Lewy body dementia." And, and, and, and sadly, a lot of these are fatal. I, I don't think Joe Biden has long to live.

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:05:01

        Well, he's old anyway. I mean, there's that. He, uh, is obviously not healthy. Um, I wanted to talk to you about SV40 and the instances of SV40 being found in samples of the vaccine.

    20. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:05:15

        [lip smacks] Multiple labs. Now, simian virus 40, uh, this is... A- and it's used to, by the way, to make vaccines. So when we take... When you wanna make a-

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:05:26

        Well, the virus isn't used to make vaccines.

    22. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:05:28

        W- well, yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:05:29

        Sim- simian virus 40 is used to make vaccines?

    24. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:05:31

        Yeah, this is kind of how it works.

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:05:32

        It's the culture. It's like-

    26. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:05:34

        I know, but you wanna... Okay. Y- y- one wants to make a ton of messenger RNA. So this is how you do it. [lip smacks] You take a DNA in plasmid. You take a DNA, a circular piece of DNA, in E. coli. And remember, the RNA is gonna anneal to the DNA and be the c- complete reverse pattern of this. So if you take the DNA code for the spike protein and insert a promoter, SV40 promoter, SV40 enhancer, what's called the origin of insertion, and then antibiotic-resistant g- genes so, so, um, that E. coli that actually has the goods can survive, and you treat the rest of the E. coli with antibiotics and kill them off. Now you've got a purified E. coli colony that can crank massive amounts of DNA that code for the Pfizer, Moderna messenger RNA, and that's how you can make it in high quantities.

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:06:31

        Ugh.

    28. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:06:32

        That's called process one. Process two, they were making it from scratch during the clinical trials. When they got to mass production, they said, "Listen, we gotta put this into E. coli."

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:06:40

        That's very important, right? Because they made it very differently during the clinical trials-

    30. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:06:44

        Correct
17. 2:15:08 – 2:26:34

    PCR testing, inflated case counts, and financial incentives in hospitals

    1. JRJoe Rogan2:15:08

       So, um, the PCR test. Um, you know, uh, I'm sure you've seen the video of Carrie Mullis criticizing Fauci, saying he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about, and that he's a bureaucrat, and he has no business telling people, you know... W- And this was, this was a long time ago. This was before COVID, you know? I think this was, uh, well, he died before COVID. Um, but the false positives were through the roof-

    2. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:15:33

       Mm-hmm

    3. JRJoe Rogan2:15:33

       ... especially early on, because they were running so many cycles with the PCR.

    4. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:15:37

       Mm-hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:15:38

       Um, how much of that contributed, do you think, to the hysteria?

    6. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:15:43

       Oh, tons. [laughs] Here we are. Podcaster is, knows as much as a laboratory physician. I mean, everyone knows about the PCR test, even kids at junior high kids and high school kids. Uh, polymerase chain reaction. So turns out that any one of the genetic sequence for any one of these 30 proteins in this little ball, the genetic sequence is known. So if one can identify a few little base pairs of a genetic sequence that's exposed, that one can create what's called a primer. So the PCR test use four primers, uh, spike protein, envelope protein, nucleocapsid protein, and what's called origin of insertion protein, or a sequence. So these are not proteins, but these are, um, sequences, RNA sequences. So four primers, and you float it out there and say, "Listen, see if these things... Let's cycle it once, see if anything comes up. Cycle it again, cycle it again." And you know, if you, i- if you were to cycle it and it turns positive on the second cycle, woo, you probably got a real thing. And then four cycles, what have you. And the CDC was looking at this and said, "Listen, no matter whatever you do, lab companies, don't go past 25 cycles, because if you do," this is CDC said this in their guidance, they say, "You're gonna generate a lot of false positives." People are picking up little, you know, surfaces of an orange or off a, or off a table, 'cause you can just ultimately get false positives. So what did the companies do? They took it all the way up to, like, 45 cycles-

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:17:12

       Mm-hmm

    8. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:17:13

       ... plus. So the vast majority of the PCR positive tests were false positive, and the best data come from the employee screening studies. So, uh, a good one to quote is in Japan Olympics. So if you screen everybody who's completely asymptomatic, you know, every day or every week, about 1% of people over time will generate positive, which is probably what you found on your show. 1% would be positive. Of those who are positive, 80% are false positive. So what I've said is, "Listen, because it can be a potentially fatal illness, and it has consequences with employment and what have you, once we got to PCR testing, uh, certainly low cycle threshold would be the way to go, but if we're not gonna do that, let's have confirmatory testing with antigen testing, like rapid antigen testing."

    9. JRJoe Rogan2:17:58

       Right.

    10. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:17:58

        Like with HI-

    11. JRJoe Rogan2:17:59

        That's what we did here.

    12. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:18:00

        Yeah, with HIV, we don't rely on one test. We always have confirmatory testing. We use duality of testing. We should have done that with COVID. So the PCR test became this generator of false cases. This got reported, and what made it worse is the PCR test influenced attribution, a- attribution of mortality. So what, now that... You know, the, the CDC definition of a COVID death is that if you were PCR positive at any time, and then you died, it counted as a COVID death.

    13. JRJoe Rogan2:18:31

        Yeah, Elon was on the podcast saying that if you got bit by a shark-

    14. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:18:34

        Right

    15. JRJoe Rogan2:18:34

        ... and you tested positive for COVID, they list it as a COVID death.

    16. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:18:37

        Right.

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:18:37

        Uh, well, they also were financially compensated-

    18. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:18:41

        Yes

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:18:41

        ... for COVID deaths.

    20. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:18:42

        Yes.

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:18:42

        This was a problem.

    22. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:18:43

        Well, it was the leading cause of hospitalization and the number one hospital reimbursement for two years. Two years. So the hospitals quickly learned the game. They're, they're in the money, making money like anybody else. They're in the game, and so they would do PCR testing, and of interest, many of them dropped influenza testing. So-

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:19:06

        [laughs]

    24. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:19:07

        ... someone comes in-

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:19:08

        So they're doing 40 cycles, 45 cycles-

    26. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:19:10

        Uh, cycles

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:19:10

        ... of PCR testing. They're dropping the influenza testing, and they're getting compensated for positive COVID results, more than 80% of which are false positives.

    28. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:19:19

        And to make matters worse, Joe, some little old person who really has influenza, they would come in and get remdesivir.

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:19:26

        Oh, God. Oh, God. Oh.

    30. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:19:33

        Do you know, you know, influenza basically went away.
18. 2:26:34 – 2:36:08

    Professional retaliation, new parallel institutions, and concluding reflections

    1. JRJoe Rogan2:26:34

       Right. Before we leave, I wanna talk to you about the, the personal cost that you, uh, endured when you spoke out and when you were, um, you know, essentially a dissident. When you were, in the beginning of the COVID pandemic, you were the person that people pointed to and said, "This is an example of misinformation." Like you said, you were accused of selling snake oil. Like, what was it like for your career? What was the impact?

    2. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:27:09

       Well, let me tell you, I didn't have a stroke. I didn't have myocarditis. I'm healthy. I'm older than you, and I feel great. And so when you look at the people who lost their lives and the people who have been devastated by the infection or the vaccine, just the fact that we have our health, Joe, is so important. It's so much more, honestly, than our jobs. And I had put my whole life into medicine since age 17, [lips smack] but I s- what I saw was so horrible and saw people suffering. You know, people died alone.

    3. JRJoe Rogan2:27:43

       Right.

    4. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:27:43

       They died alone. I saw things that were so bad. I couldn't sit back and say, "You know what? I'm gonna protect my career and let somebody else take the bullets." If I helped one person, it was worth it. One. That's the criteria. That's what a doctor does. We have a million doctors and half a million nurse practitioners that sat on the sidelines and let Americans get slaughtered. We had a handful of people who stepped forward. I wouldn't change a thing.

    5. JRJoe Rogan2:28:25

       But what happened to you? Like, what was-

    6. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:28:28

       Well, everything.

    7. JRJoe Rogan2:28:29

       Right.

    8. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:28:29

       Everything. I was stripped of everything, professorships, editorships, grants, advisory panels, consultancies, you name it. If they could, they would've just pinned me up to a cross. [lips smack] It's just, it's so bad. And you know, I have colleagues in Australia and Europe and the UK and Canada and South America, they did the same thing as me. They did the right thing. I think history will record.

    9. JRJoe Rogan2:28:59

       I think it will as well. Have any of those things been restored that you were stripped of?

    10. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:29:05

        Out of these professional downturns, and there were lawsuits and money lost and, and corruption and, and... Great things have been spawned. We spawned the, The Wellness Company, you know, is, which is heading towards skyrocketing for evaluation. IPO, we're gonna be enormously successful. Uh, we have New York Times best-selling books. Uh, you know, I, I'm in my fifth office in Dallas, but I'm thriving now, uh, you know, in a great environment. I'm the editor of a, of a major journal after losing two editorships. I've still yet to have an academic organization call me in for grand rounds, and my goal is to live long enough to get that call. 2019, I was a visiting professor in medicine, and I lectured at Harvard in two divisions. Two divisions. They all know me. They all know me at the Mayo Clinic. They know me at every major institution in the United States, and I have patients go to those institutions, and they specifically bring up my na- my name. They say, "Yeah, we know Dr. McCullough." Not a single one of my former colleagues in academia will send even as much as an email or a text or a phone call.

    11. JRJoe Rogan2:30:19

        Wow.

    12. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:30:20

        It is airtight. It is airtight. And some of them have died. You know, our former chief of cardiology, uh, when I was a division chief at William Beaumont in, uh, Detroit, David Haynes, he, uh, we have an annual ski meeting. David just dies right there in the hotel. He had cardiac arrest. One of my colleagues at Baylor in Dallas, cardiologist my, my age, Dr. Jimenez, he just dies of a cardiac arrest. It's happening. It's happening. We are seeing people die out from the pandemic. I predict that when we look back on this, for a period of time, human longevity will be truncated due to the pandemic, both from the infection and from the vaccines. We're already seeing a fertility cliff. It's very important. Dr. Vibeke Maniche, one of the most respected public health figures in Denmark, has already published this. Fertility has fallen off a cliff after the first year of vaccination, both male and female fertility. I just told you 9% of Democratic senators have had premature stroke, 9%. Add in a few more. L- Lauren Boebert, a Colorado representative, has had blood clots surgically taken out of her legs, what's called May-Thurner syndrome, probably driven by the spike protein. Dianne Feinstein dies of neuroinvasive, uh, varicella in her brain. That's a COVID vaccine injury syndrome. And the list goes on and on. All the athletes, all of our friends in the media, we see this happening, so we're gonna... Humanity took a hit, two big waves, the infection and now the vaccines. Now we're gonna recover through The Wellness Company, things that you've done. Independent media is rocking right now because no one can trust mainstream media. They know they're not getting a straight story.

    13. JRJoe Rogan2:32:12

        Absolutely. Um, another thing was the increase in all-cause mortality, which, uh, insurance companies were posting about.

    14. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:32:21

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JRJoe Rogan2:32:21

        And that was extraordinary. At one point, I think it was like 40% increase in all-cause mortality for young people, which is nuts.

    16. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:32:30

        It's a Six Sigma event. These guys, these actuaries know the expected rates of death, and all-cause mortality for working-age people skyrocketed. Great credit to Edward Dowd, who's a former, uh, you know, financial manager who studied this very carefully. John Bedwyn, who's, uh, studied the death certificates and what's going on. There's people have all written books. The books will go down. There's dozens of books now that are very helpful to understand what's happened. But you're right, mortality has gone up. You know what's really spooky? Is, uh, probably 10 or 15 years ago, we used to hear about people, politicians being concerned we're gonna run out of money for, uh, Social Security or Medicare. You never hear that anymore. No one brings it up.

    17. JRJoe Rogan2:33:19

        They don't?

    18. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:33:21

        Have you heard anybody this, this season worry about Social Security running out of money?

    19. JRJoe Rogan2:33:25

        I thought I have.

    20. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:33:26

        [laughs] Fiscal responsibility. Well, fiscal responsibility's kinda gone out the window, but the, the point is y- you know, there is an actuarial loss now of people. Now, the baby boomers are... I'm the tail end of the baby boomers. Baby boomers are, um, 19, uh, gosh, what are they? 1960, uh, uh, 1946 to 1964, so I'm the tail end of the baby boomers. That big swallow of the population now is all either older than me, sadly, some have passed away. So we're gonna see a big swallow of the population pass away. It, it is a reality, and things are gonna curtail. But we have to get control of fiscal responsibility, and these, these numbers are very important to know. Our US spend on our budget in 2004 was 2.2 trillion with a T. That's how much we spent in 2004. We got to 2019, we're at 4.4 trillion. Doubled. That's more than the time value of money. Doubled. We get to COVID under Trump administration, we go 4.4, 6.6 trillion overnight. Overnight. That's a 50% increase in our budget. Money was just hemorrhaging all over the place. Now, um, now we're into Trump 2.0, big beautiful bill, which is a big spending bill as well, $7.7 trillion. Elon Musk, you've had him on your show. Elon tries to go to Washington. He sees waste, fraud, and abuse everywhere, and they couldn't wait to see him get out of Washington because he was gonna ruin the party. We're in an absolute spending orgy as a country right now, and we're borrowing from ourselves through Treasury bonds. So when this whole party ends, it's gonna be, "Sorry, American people, we know you liked your, uh, your 401ks, but the whole Treasury bond system is going bust."

    21. JRJoe Rogan2:35:18

        All right.

    22. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:35:19

        [laughs]

    23. JRJoe Rogan2:35:19

        And on that note...

    24. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:35:22

        So we have to do better. The point is we have to do better, and I think people are learning the truth. Let's hope that through elections, let's hope through people seeking, uh, truth, getting a whole variety of opinions, that we, we take a better course. And I think the future's bright, but the, the pandemic was, uh, certainly a six-year learning experience, and it's gonna go on for a few more years.

    25. JRJoe Rogan2:35:42

        Agreed. All right. Well, thank you, sir. It was great to see you again.

    26. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:35:45

        Thank you.

    27. JRJoe Rogan2:35:46

        And, uh, thank you for all your courage. I really appreciate it, and for y- your ethics and your morals. You're, you're a good man.

    28. PMDr. Peter McCullough2:35:53

        Thank you.

    29. JRJoe Rogan2:35:54

        Bye, everybody. [upbeat music]

Episode duration: 2:36:08