JRE MMA Show #10 with Tyron Woodley

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Doo, doo, doo. And…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Doo, doo, doo. And we're live. We're live with the champ. We're live. We're live with the champ.

   2. TWTyron Woodley0:09

      We out of this bitch.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      What's up, man? How are you?

   4. TWTyron Woodley0:10

      I'm chilling, man. How you doing, brother?

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      You look better than anybody I've ever seen just a couple weeks out of shoulder surgery.

   6. TWTyron Woodley0:15

      I'm a savage, man.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Like, you're walking around like there's nothing going on.

   8. TWTyron Woodley0:18

      They took my savage stem cells out of my own damn back, and they threw them in my shoulder.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      Out of your back?

   10. TWTyron Woodley0:23

       The hip bone, where the fuck... The word bone marrow, they got in there, centrifuge spun them, shot them into my shoulder.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       Hmm.

   12. TWTyron Woodley0:30

       And shit. I should have a sling on, but I'm out Tuesday anyway, so I kind of prematurely decided to come out of the sling.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       Oh, so you're supposed to be out of the sling in six days?

   14. TWTyron Woodley0:39

       Yeah, some... No, no. Is that six days?

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:41

       Five days?

   16. TWTyron Woodley0:41

       Whatever Tuesday is.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       Five days. Today's Thursday.

   18. TWTyron Woodley0:43

       Yeah, five days.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Yeah.

   20. TWTyron Woodley0:44

       Four or five days, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:44

       Wow. So you said, "Fuck it."

   22. TWTyron Woodley0:45

       So my guys were really aggressive. I went to Dr. Andrews. He's out there in Pensacola. And he said, "No, we need you back punching in two months." So the day after surgery-

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       Two months?

   24. TWTyron Woodley0:54

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:54

       Hard?

   26. TWTyron Woodley0:54

       Day after surgery, he said making contact. So two month... I mean, right after surgery, I was doing two-a-days, fucking full-ass rehab.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       Really?

   28. TWTyron Woodley1:04

       Yeah, like crazy. So I'm like, these dudes is nuts. This shoulder, I had this done in '08. I didn't move for three weeks.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       What'd you have done with that one?

   30. TWTyron Woodley1:12

       Same thing, labrum.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Uh, but why does…

   1. TWTyron Woodley15:00

      not, not really training hard. Um, they don't look the part. I think professional athletes should look a certain way. Um, I really just don't like the youth, um, this, this generation of fighters that watch a move on TV, on YouTube, and they go and they try to do it. They don't wanna drill repetitiously. They don't wanna actually put in the work. Um-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:17

      Uh, but why does that affect you though? Because-

   3. TWTyron Woodley15:19

      It affects me because our sport is also the fans, and the fans actually culture who gets to fight. And if a guy's gonna talk enough shit and start wearing fly suits, then this day and age, that's good enough for a title shot. And I think that's disrespectful to everybody that came before that... Remember the... You had to go 10 and 0, then you get the fucking call from the UFC?

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:37

      Mm-hmm.

   5. TWTyron Woodley15:39

      If Conor won... Artem Lobov in the UFC had a .500 record, he's gonna be in the UFC. And I just... (clears throat) It's, it's ways that the sport has taken the love out of it, but I just find a way in dominating my opponents, taking all their tools away from them. You know, Dean, Thomas, shout out to them, and Duke Roufus are fucking masterminds. So, I take pride in that, take pride in going in there, not getting hit, um, dominating, knocking people out, whatever, whatever the case.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:06

      Yeah, but when you say you don't like fighting, you like all those things.

   7. TWTyron Woodley16:09

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:09

      You don't like the, what other people are doing.

   9. TWTyron Woodley16:11

      I love training. I don't like what... I don't like the, what the sport has become.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:15

       So, th- this is an interesting thing to talk about because a lot of people have different points of view on that. On one hand, a lot of people like the traditional martial arts approach of respect for your opponent and just fighting to the best of your abilities and letting the chips fall where they may. Whereas other people say, "Well, listen, to get people to show up, to get asses in seats, to get pay-per-view buys, there's gotta be some drama and some entertainment value to it." And that's where someone like Conor comes into play.

   11. TWTyron Woodley16:41

       Conor's the only one that's done it, though.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:43

       Yeah. Well, Ronda a little bit.

   13. TWTyron Woodley16:44

       Ronda did it a little bit. Conor's done it the best.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:47

       Mm-hmm.

   15. TWTyron Woodley16:47

       But he actually puts in the work.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       Right.

   17. TWTyron Woodley16:49

       He actually-

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       Chael Sonnen before him.

   19. TWTyron Woodley16:50

       Chael Sonnen did, but he didn't... He, he, his mouth, his mouth was louder. He's actually-

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:55

       Yes.

   21. TWTyron Woodley16:55

       ... probably the best at it. He's, he's probably... He's better than Conor at it. Conor's very close, but Conor actually delivers on more than, more of what he said he's gonna do than Chael did.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:04

       I would agree with that. Yeah.

   23. TWTyron Woodley17:05

       So if you gotta think of anybody who's brought both worlds together best, I would have to say Conor. He knocks a lot of guys out, he's tried to call the round. Um, he's only lost a few fights total. And even those fights, it was risk and reward. Fighting a guy, switched opponent, this and the notice, different weight class. Um, you know, he's, he's taking those risk and rewards that if you lose, it's not really that big of a deal. You know, nobody's gonna really, "Oh, my God," dropping down to the bottom of the pack. But these other guys that haven't done it, don't have the skills, ain't putting in the work, I mean, they can kind of really just-

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:37

       Well, you see the trend, right? There is a trend right now of people being-

   25. TWTyron Woodley17:39

       Be good at it at least though.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:40

       ... incredibly disrespectful-

   27. TWTyron Woodley17:42

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:42

       ... very rude.

   29. TWTyron Woodley17:43

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:43

       And, you know, you saw what happened with Colby Covington and-
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Look what George Mazdaldas…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      unless you are another elite-

   2. TWTyron Woodley30:01

      Look what George Mazdaldas did.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      He didn't-

   4. TWTyron Woodley30:02

      He didn't, he didn't take Maia serious, he didn't train the way, he didn't bring in the top jiu-jitsu guys. Like, it's easy to spar and kickbox and look good and never have to take a shot. The way I train, I put myself in positions I know I'm never gonna be in. You're never gonna take me down. You're never gonna have my back. I'm never gonna be mounted. But I'm training that shit anyway just in case I slip on a banana peel, I get clipped with a punch. So Georges, Georges Mazdaldas...Just from the way I watched him fight, he was surprised. Even the stuff that Stephen Thompson hit me with never surprised me. I got hit with it. He landed some good shots. He's really quick. I mean, I'm fast and explosive, but he's quick. Those punches get to you fast. He's long, and when he started bouncing, you don't even know what the hell he gonna do, and it's kinda like, "What are you about to do? What are you about to do?" You can watch his performance and tell he didn't do the proper work. Same thing with Demian Maia. He trained with Kobe, and like, "Try to take me down, I'm gonna stop the shot and just knock you out." That's not how it works. You gotta bring in guys that know his half guard, how he hooks an ankle, how he sweeps, how he switches from one side to the other. What happens when he grab him around your waist? If you give him his back, this is how you gonna lock up. I train with guys that trained with him, and then guys that are better than Demian Maia on the mat. That way when I got out there, had he taken me down, I would have been prepared to escape, get away, get back to my feet.

   5. JRJoe Rogan31:16

      Do you think that having a chip on your shoulder in some way helps you? Like, all these people that doubt you, in some way, you, you have to prove yourself-

   6. TWTyron Woodley31:23

      I just know, I just know that I'm the best.

   7. JRJoe Rogan31:24

      ... it gives you a little extra fuel?

   8. TWTyron Woodley31:25

      I just know that I'm the best. Like, you know, uh, me and Dean was training one day and, uh, I stopped practice and I just, I had a brain fart, and I just started thinking about Georges St-Pierre, and I started thinking about all his skills, and I started thinking about Robbie and all the top welterweights. And I said, "I'm the fucking best in the world. Nobody's faster than me, nobody's stronger than me, nobody work as hard as I do, nobody has all the skills, the striking, the wrestling, the jujitsu, the defense, the timing, the explosion, the toughness." I've been in wars, I've been in close fights, I've been in fights where I knock people out. I've been in it all. So when I decided that I'm the best, I started carrying myself as if I was already the champion. And that's why I had champ camp before I'd even had the belt.

   9. JRJoe Rogan32:05

      And which was, when was this around? Like, which fight?

   10. TWTyron Woodley32:07

       Um, right ... Shit. Robbie. Right before Robbie.

   11. JRJoe Rogan32:10

       So, right before Robbie?

   12. TWTyron Woodley32:11

       Yeah, yeah. I was supposed to... No, champ camp actually was supposed to start with, um, with Johnny, but Johnny had some complications, didn't make it to the scale. So, they-

   13. JRJoe Rogan32:17

       Yeah.

   14. TWTyron Woodley32:17

       ... told me I was fighting Robbie.

   15. JRJoe Rogan32:20

       Yeah, I remember talking to you backstage one day, uh, at one of the weigh-ins and you were frustrated.

   16. TWTyron Woodley32:26

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan32:26

       And you were like, "When the fuck am I getting my title shot?"

   18. TWTyron Woodley32:29

       Yeah. Well that, you know, this is the thing. We know the game changes and sometimes they want to see fights play out before they make a, you know, a call. They never want to be on the line saying, "You are definitely getting the title shot."

   19. JRJoe Rogan32:40

       Right.

   20. TWTyron Woodley32:40

       They've done that a couple of times and we've seen what happened, right?

   21. JRJoe Rogan32:42

       And they pulled out of it. Yeah.

   22. TWTyron Woodley32:43

       Pulled out of it. So I fought Kelvin Gastelum, and Kelvin Gastelum was supposed to be this conditioning freak and he missed weight by 10 pounds. And, you know, for me, I don't play that shit. Don't act like you were so sick. No, you didn't make weight. And what happens when you don't make weight, you actually didn't have to go through and suck your body all the way down to the scratch weight like I did. So you should actually look better. So I don't wanna be like, "Oh, he, he was sick and that's why he..." No, he had his chance, he just is never gonna beat me. I fought him. He was the one that was huffing and puffing. He couldn't hit me, he couldn't land any significant punch I landed. And after that fight, you know, um, there was some scrutiny on the fight. I'm like, "Okay, you want me to grapple with him so he can try to take my back and do a redneck joke like he did to everybody else? You want me to exchange with him and let him get into the fight when I know I'm fast, I know I'm sharper? He can't hit me, he, I got better defense." The whole time he's pushing me against the cage I hear his coach say, "No, no, no, don't go there. Don't go there." He was terrified that the Koscheck thing was gonna happen to him, so he backed up every time he pushed me into an octagon. Why wouldn't I play on that? You know what I mean? So when people look at that, he was, said that he was gonna get a title shot. I don't know if you remember that. They said, "If Kelvin Gastelum beats Tyron, he gonna get a title shot." You remember that?

   23. JRJoe Rogan33:52

       I don't remember people saying that.

   24. TWTyron Woodley33:53

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan33:53

       They were saying that, but they weren't saying that about you.

   26. TWTyron Woodley33:55

       People... It was Dana White said it.

   27. JRJoe Rogan33:56

       That if you beat... They didn't say that if you beat him.

   28. TWTyron Woodley33:57

       Dana, Dana White said, "If Kelvin Gastelum beats Tyron, he's getting a title shot." Remember, he had already been coach, um, selected for the coach. He got the coaching job off the loss, after missing weight by 10 pounds, and then they told me he would never fight at 185 again if I took the fight. I mean, 170 again if I took the fight. So he lost to me in this weight, still got the tough coaching job, and on top of that, he was going to get a title shot had he beaten me.

   29. JRJoe Rogan34:23

       But why do you... So you, again, it comes to this chip on your shoulder thing. You feel like everybody's against you.

   30. TWTyron Woodley34:28

       No.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   But- …

   1. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      these are-

   2. TWTyron Woodley45:00

      But-

   3. JRJoe Rogan45:00

      These are things that people say that aren't logical.

   4. TWTyron Woodley45:02

      ... but it's, but it's damaging when it's the president.

   5. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      Right.

   6. TWTyron Woodley45:05

      When the president says it, especially when you got the cultish following, whatever he says is gonna go. If they say Damian Maia was boring, everybody... And they're not even gonna change a word. If you say, "Tyron Woodley and Damian Maia, oh my god, that fucking fight was boring," somebody's gonna say, "If Tyron Woodley, Damian Maia, oh my god, that fucking fight was boring."

   7. JRJoe Rogan45:23

      Right.

   8. TWTyron Woodley45:23

      They're not even gonna change a word.

   9. JRJoe Rogan45:25

      Right.

   10. TWTyron Woodley45:25

       That's what we have. So as a champion, and in a position of being supposedly being promoted, at that place, it becomes damaging. So now, how are you gonna come back and say, "Okay, Tyron's back. His shoulder's fixed. He's one of the fucking most devastating guys out there. He'll knock your motherfucking head off." But then five minutes ago, you just said he was boring (laughs) . You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's very hard.

   11. JRJoe Rogan45:46

       Okay, I see what you're saying. We're talking-

   12. TWTyron Woodley45:48

       It's, it's...

   13. JRJoe Rogan45:48

       ... about two different things.

   14. TWTyron Woodley45:49

       It's-

   15. JRJoe Rogan45:49

       What you're saying is you feel like the way they talked about you after the fight was damaging...

   16. TWTyron Woodley45:55

       For sure.

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:55

       ... and disrespectful and, and also n- not accurate in terms of the consequences of your actions in the fight.

   18. TWTyron Woodley46:02

       Yeah. And nobody, and nobody came through and was like, "Damn, you know what? After finding out this motherfucker tore his goddamn labrum in the first round, and he still didn't give a one damn takedown, didn't hardly get touched at all in the entire fight, maybe punched two or three times total, man, that's kind of clutch. This motherfucker got, he must got fucking a strong body."

   19. JRJoe Rogan46:21

       That's what you would like to hear?

   20. TWTyron Woodley46:22

       No, I don't wanna hear anything because I want to fight. (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:24

       But you're saying that. You're saying that, so you must have-

   22. TWTyron Woodley46:25

       I'm saying, I'm saying that, I'm saying that it was a choice made to say one thing.

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:29

       Right. But Da- Dana flies off the cuff, right?

   24. TWTyron Woodley46:32

       And that's always-

   25. JRJoe Rogan46:32

       And that's always been the thing about him.

   26. TWTyron Woodley46:33

       But, but it's also, you can also fly off the cuff in the other direction. You can also say, "Hey, this person's a fucking next superstar. Oh my god, Ngannou's crazy. Oh my god, Cody Garbrandt is a fucking demand. Oh my god, Paige vs. VanZant this. Oh, my man Sage is gonna look at that." You can say that and watch what happen. Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. Million followers. Two million followers. And that makes a big difference.

   27. JRJoe Rogan46:53

       But that can happen to you at any moment. You're frustrated by the reaction to three particular fights.

   28. TWTyron Woodley46:58

       I'm not frustrated with it.

   29. JRJoe Rogan46:58

       The two Wonderboy... You're definitely frustrated.

   30. TWTyron Woodley46:59

       You want me to be frustrated?
5. 1:00:00 – 1:01:21

   See, I th- I…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      to go back and I'd have to go back and watch it again.

   2. TWTyron Woodley1:00:01

      See, I th- I thought at that moment that Carlos won, but I wasn't like, "Oh my God, I can't believe they gave this to Robbie." But what was going-

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:07

      It was extremely close.

   4. TWTyron Woodley1:00:08

      It was really close.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:09

      You can make an argument for either guy winning, I think.

   6. TWTyron Woodley1:00:11

      Yeah. But Robbie, because he landed the more significant-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      Harder punches.

   8. TWTyron Woodley1:00:14

      ... hard, harder punches and it looked-

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:15

      Right.

   10. TWTyron Woodley1:00:15

       ... scarier.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:16

       Right.

   12. TWTyron Woodley1:00:16

       I think that's why he got the nod.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:17

       That means something, though.

   14. TWTyron Woodley1:00:18

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:00:19

       I mean, uh, if someone hits harder and has more damage, that damage should be accumulated. I mean, that should be, uh-

   16. TWTyron Woodley1:00:25

       So someone, so someone-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:00:25

       ... added up.

   18. TWTyron Woodley1:00:26

       So if someone throws punches and it looks like it's affecting the person more, even if the other person throw more and land more, than the person that's landing the damaging punches you think should win?

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

       I think damage should count for more than punches that don't damage. So like, if one person hits you-

   20. TWTyron Woodley1:00:41

       Is that the way that they're supposed to score now currently?

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:00:43

       I don't know. I mean, the new... It's, what's interesting is Nevada still doesn't accept the new rules.

   22. TWTyron Woodley1:00:48

       They need to get the old ones right-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:00:49

       Which is crazy.

   24. TWTyron Woodley1:00:49

       ... before they try-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:00:50

       Yeah.

   26. TWTyron Woodley1:00:50

       ... to bring in the new ones.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:00:50

       Yeah.Yeah. But what's, uh, also interesting is the scores are much wider now.

   28. TWTyron Woodley1:00:55

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:00:55

       Like you see a lot more 10-8s now than you ever saw before.

   30. TWTyron Woodley1:00:58

       Yeah.

Episode duration: 1:34:33