JRE MMA Show #101 with Kevin Holland & Travis Lutter

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Okay, we're rolling. (phone chimes)…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Okay, we're rolling. (phone chimes) Kevin, what's up?

   2. KHKevin Holland0:16

      What's up, Joe?

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Was that your phone?

   4. TLTravis Lutter0:17

      Yep, I'm not sure. Um-

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      Travis Sluiter.

   6. TLTravis Lutter0:18

      Sorry.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      (laughs)

   8. TLTravis Lutter0:22

      (laughs)

   9. KHKevin Holland0:22

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:22

       So, uh, first of all, welcome. Thanks for doing this. Appreciate it.

   11. KHKevin Holland0:25

       No, thank you.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:25

       And it's good to see you again, man. I haven't seen you in forever.

   13. TLTravis Lutter0:28

       Yeah, man. It's been a- it's been a few years.

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       Try to keep this, like, uh-

   15. TLTravis Lutter0:30

       Sorry.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       ... like a fist from your face.

   17. KHKevin Holland0:32

       A fist from my face, huh? Well.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       Yeah.

   19. KHKevin Holland0:34

       Well...

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       We were talking right before about, uh, injuries. You know, it's like, I always like to talk to guys who have been doing Jiu-Jitsu a long time 'cause they always have this laundry list-

   21. KHKevin Holland0:43

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       ... of injuries. And you were talking about neck fusions and disc issues.

   23. TLTravis Lutter0:47

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan0:47

       And, you know?

   25. TLTravis Lutter0:49

       Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, I'm just like everybody else. We get... You know, everybody gets injured, we all get old. Uh, it just takes time, and- and... But, you know, my opinion is, if I'm gonna teach Jiu-Jitsu, I- I have to stay doing the art.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       Yeah.

   27. TLTravis Lutter1:03

       I think that, um, when people just teach and they don't train, they- they, you know, it's like a... It's a perishable.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       Yes.

   29. TLTravis Lutter1:11

       You know, it's like your skills are perishable, and then it's also your thoughts. It's like, yeah, you know, it's like, "Oh, uh, wha- if we just..." That's when you start seeing bullshit Jiu-Jitsu.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:19

       Yeah.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   I like it. …

   1. TLTravis Lutter15:00

      I ... They're okay. It's like it-

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:01

      I like it.

   3. KHKevin Holland15:01

      It worked out for me.

   4. TLTravis Lutter15:02

      Eh, that's 'cause for, for his style, it's perfect. It's like, him in an EBI, it's really, really hard to beat Kevin, 'cause it's like, you're not gonna score on him, he's going to ... it's gonna go overtime, and then, you know, Kevin-

   5. KHKevin Holland15:13

      And you can stand out of bounds. I love that.

   6. TLTravis Lutter15:15

      Yeah, it's like, you know-

   7. KHKevin Holland15:16

      That's perfect.

   8. TLTravis Lutter15:16

      ... Kevin, Kevin likes it a lot. So for me, not so much.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:20

      It's just interesting to see, like, situations where maybe the person in, uh, a regular match never would get to your back, but now they're starting on your back with their hands locked in the seatbelt.

   10. KHKevin Holland15:30

       Yeah.

   11. TLTravis Lutter15:30

       Yeah. You know? I mean, and it's, you know, for, for Kevin, that's great. You know, it's like, for, for older folk, probably not as good. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:39

       (laughs)

   13. KHKevin Holland15:39

       (laughs)

   14. TLTravis Lutter15:39

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:39

       For me, I love ... Stay away from my back. I don't want you back there.

   16. KHKevin Holland15:42

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:42

       So, G- Kevin, how long you been training with Travis?

   18. TLTravis Lutter15:45

       11 years.

   19. KHKevin Holland15:46

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:46

       11 years. Wow.

   21. KHKevin Holland15:47

       Yeah. It's been a while. It's been a long time. (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       And when did you decide you wanted to fight MMA?

   23. KHKevin Holland15:53

       Uh, I wanted to do kickboxing when I got there. I was really a big fan of Kevin Ross, and then I got there and Travis was like, "As difficult as striking is, jujitsu's more complex." And then he went like this.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       (laughs)

   25. TLTravis Lutter16:07

       (laughs)

   26. KHKevin Holland16:07

       And I was like, "All right, bet."

   27. JRJoe Rogan16:08

       (laughs)

   28. KHKevin Holland16:08

       I was like, "I'm gonna give it a shot," and then I cried the first day after practice.

   29. JRJoe Rogan16:12

       Did you?

   30. TLTravis Lutter16:13

       No.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   T- uh, yeah, the,…

   1. TLTravis Lutter30:00

      you know, to, uh, to the IBJJF, I think. You know, it's like a little s- family squabble, so...

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      T- uh, yeah, the, the whole ranking thing is weird, right? 'Cause some guys can just decide that they're forming their own system and then, you know, like...

   3. TLTravis Lutter30:14

      Uh, it l- at the end of the day, it's like, you know, it's like, uh, you know, this goes back to Samurai times and there was no belts. You know?

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:21

      Right.

   5. TLTravis Lutter30:21

      It's like and then, and then they started putting in, uh, I think the original belts were as white and, uh, white, black, blue. Uh, and that, and that, like e- even in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, it's like when it was given to the, you know, the, to the Gracies back in the day, I think that was the, the rank. Um, and, uh, H- Hoist had explained it to me 'cause it's like, uh, so the white belt was the beginner, a black belt was the, the, you know, the, you know, you'd be, you achieved the rank of bl- uh, black belt, you were the expert. And then the blue belt was the teacher. And so, um, um, Helio, um, right before he died, you know, the last few years, would, would train in a really, really dark blue belt. And it's like, you know, and, and it's like, so he'd go, uh, put the black belt on or the red belt on for the pictures and stuff like that, but when he was teaching, he would wear a blue belt. Um, and now Hoist, when he does his seminars, if you look really, really closely at his belt, it's, it's blue.

   6. JRJoe Rogan31:11

      Really?

   7. TLTravis Lutter31:11

      Yeah, his, it's not black. He's, he's doing that, uh, uh, you know, to honor his dad and stuff like that, so...

   8. JRJoe Rogan31:16

      That's really interesting.People love belts, though. They love, you know, like, finding out that you've got the, that you've passed.

   9. GPGuest (third-mic participant)31:23

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:23

       You know, you've reached the next level. It gives you a nice boost.

   11. GPGuest (third-mic participant)31:26

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:26

       You feel good.

   13. GPGuest (third-mic participant)31:27

       Yeah, I love belts.

   14. TLTravis Lutter31:27

       It's a perishable skill. You know, it's like everything's perishable. It's like, you know, it's like if y- if you don't go shoot, you know, it's like that skill's gonna go away. If you don't, if I don't train jujitsu, that skill's gonna go away, and it's like and, and it's striking, whatever it is, you don't drive your car, you're not gonna do as well with it. Uh, you know, it's like if you're a race car driver, you gotta practice, you know?

   15. GPGuest (third-mic participant)31:45

       Yeah.

   16. TLTravis Lutter31:46

       And it's like a, uh ... And so yeah, in that ways, you know, it's like do I start over? You know, I haven't trained for five years, 10 years.

   17. GPGuest (third-mic participant)31:52

       Right.

   18. TLTravis Lutter31:53

       You know, should I start over? Do I still wear my belt? I achieved it at one time. It's, it's complicated, you know?

   19. GPGuest (third-mic participant)31:57

       Yeah. It is complicated, right? Yeah. But getting a black belt from Travis Sluta, that's a big fucking deal. Yeah, it takes a long time. Come on, man.

   20. TLTravis Lutter32:04

       That's a big fucking deal.

   21. GPGuest (third-mic participant)32:06

       (laughs)

   22. TLTravis Lutter32:06

       Don't do that. That's legit.

   23. GPGuest (third-mic participant)32:07

       It takes, it takes half a lifetime. Oh. You know, you can do it, it just takes half a lifetime. What is your f- do you have a favorite thing that you like to train in? Yeah, the gi. You like the gi? Yeah, as long as we're in the gi, I'm happy. I love the gi, especially a new gi, you know? I love the gi. And it sucks 'cause I just bought like five new gis and I haven't been able to train in the gi since buying five new gis. (laughs) Because you're training for MMA. Well, no, it's just- Okay, fine. ... I've been at every ... All my classes seem like they've been no gi or wrestling. Yeah. It just haven't been gi classes. It sucks. Why do you prefer the gi? That's what I started with. Kung fu, started off in a gi. Mm-hmm. Jujitsu when I went to Travis' gym, gi, you know, it's like, it's real martial arts.

   24. TLTravis Lutter32:48

       Yeah, like the last thing that Kevin does before he goes in the octagon, you know, before he comes out, is he does his kata, you know, from, from k- uh, from kung fu.

   25. GPGuest (third-mic participant)32:55

       Yeah.

   26. TLTravis Lutter32:56

       You know, so it's like, it's like he do- we, uh, we do the warmup, he's all, 100% warm, and then that's kind of his cool down. And that gets his head right and he, and he's ready. And it's like, you know, and this is, you know, it's part of the routine and it's like, you know, um, you know, Kevin's very, very traditional that way, you know?

   27. GPGuest (third-mic participant)33:11

       Do you have a specific kata that you like to do before you warm up or when you, uh, are about to go out? Yeah, to calm down, 10-point blocking system is the one to calm down, you know? It's in- and it's- they say 10-point blocking system, but it really should be called like 10-point b- breathing system, you know? And so you're really focusing on your breathing. And then I like combat pin yan. Like I'm really, really fond of combat pin yan. So like the only forms that I'll, I'll still do is like I'll do 10-point blocking system of course, I'll do combat pin yan, I'll do, uh, self-defense form to the left and to the right, that's the original one we learned, and then I'll do SDM2, uh, that's the second self-defense form that we learned. And I kinda suck at SDM2, that's why I still practice it. Uh, SDM1 self-defense forms left and right, the traditional one that for the whole art, 10 basic footworks. I do those. I do the footworks, you know, every couple days or if I'm just bored, or if I'm naked in the shower. (laughs) You know? Uh, and then, uh, combat pin yan, I like to smoke a blunt and do combat pin yan. Yeah. And it's, uh, it's supposed to be like a, a scenery in a garden, you know, like you create the, the capital I is kinda like what you do. Uh, and then 10-point blocking system is just really good to just calm down, just relax, and you know, it's like I wanna teach it to my little brother, but I ... 14 years old and I still don't think he's patient enough to learn it, so you know, it's a good one though. I really love 10-point blocking system. So you said you, you train with, uh ... Suge is your strength and conditioning guy, but he also works with your hands? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Do, do you have a, a Muay Thai coach? Do you work with someone that does kicks with you? Like- No. So I'm traditional. I have like, you know, I have my second degree black belt in kung fu, so I know kicks pretty well. Uh, but it's like I go out there and I get to work with Bob of course, and I love working with Bob, you know? Uh, shout out to Black Beast and them. Texas is officially warm again now that the Balls are back. (laughs) Uh, you know? We were talking about, uh, Derek's KO victory over Curtis Blaydes before this fight, and it's just holy shit. That shit was amazing.

   28. TLTravis Lutter35:01

       (sighs)

   29. GPGuest (third-mic participant)35:01

       (laughs)

   30. TLTravis Lutter35:02

       That guy can-
4. 45:00 – 58:38

   I used to fight…

   1. TLTravis Lutter45:00

      you know. It's insane. It's crazy.

   2. KHKevin Holland45:01

      I used to fight 170 pounds, and then I missed weight for, like, two California fights, you know. Both times I just really wasn't taking the weight cut serious, to be honest with you.

   3. TLTravis Lutter45:09

      Yeah.

   4. KHKevin Holland45:09

      And, uh, it was like, they started talking about how you can't cut so much weight in California.

   5. TLTravis Lutter45:15

      Right, uh, 10% of your body weight.

   6. KHKevin Holland45:16

      Yeah, for fights. And I was like, "Oh, well, I'm probably gonna have to go up to 85." And I was, at the time, I was going back and forth between California and Texas a lot to fight. So I was like, "Well, I'll just stay at 85," you know. It's like half the time guys are out of shape anyways at 85, I'll just stay at 85, you know. And it's like... And then I lost Lovato at 85, so I was like, "Yeah, I'm really gonna stay at 85 and get that fight back," you know. And it's like... So it just makes sense not to cut that much weight, you know. It's like I could probably make 170 with a nutritionist, but we like the way that I act and we like the way I feel at 85, so.

   7. TLTravis Lutter45:44

      I like Kevin at 85 better.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:46

      Yeah.

   9. TLTravis Lutter45:46

      It's like he's stronger. It's like, it's like we have better training partners for him at that weight. Uh, and it gets down to when he's lighter, it's like, uh, it's... I, I, I prefer him at 85.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:56

       You certainly have the frame for it.

   11. KHKevin Holland45:57

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:57

       You know, that's just a... It's such a big advantage to be long.

   13. TLTravis Lutter46:00

       He's stupid strong, you know. It's like Kevin, you know, it's like, uh, put him up against anybody as, as far as strength at 85.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:07

       Well, you certainly show it with the one punch power, you know.

   15. KHKevin Holland46:10

       Hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:10

       When Joaquin Buckley, uh, made that highlight reel crazy kick-

   17. KHKevin Holland46:14

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:14

       ... and then I was like... Yeah, does everybody forget?

   19. TLTravis Lutter46:16

       Yeah, one fight ago.

   20. KHKevin Holland46:17

       Yeah, yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan46:17

       No one's, no one's rem-... I mean, yeah, it was an amazing kick.

   22. TLTravis Lutter46:20

       Yeah, it was.

   23. JRJoe Rogan46:20

       It was an amazing KO.

   24. KHKevin Holland46:21

       I'm proud of him. That's my son, I'm proud of him, you know.

   25. TLTravis Lutter46:23

       Very nice.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:23

       (laughs)

   27. KHKevin Holland46:23

       I'm forever gonna, I'm forever gonna own that, you know. It's... He's my kid, and then I got my other kid who can't freaking pass drug tests.

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:29

       Who's that?

   29. KHKevin Holland46:29

       I got these two kids. The Ontiveras guy, he stays in Houston, the one that I fought.

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:34

       Oh.

Episode duration: 2:57:04