Skip to content
The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #107 with Georges St-Pierre

Joe is joined by UFC Hall of Famer and actor Georges St-Pierre.

Georges St-PierreguestJoe Roganhost
Jun 27, 20243h 34mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:24

    GSP on why talking (podcasts, meet-and-greets) can be more draining than training

    1. GS

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) How many times a week you have a guest on your show that ... You have some, uh, times that you have two guests, uh, during a day?

    2. JR

      It's rare. But, uh-

    3. GS

      It happened?

    4. JR

      ... I did it once last week and then today.

    5. GS

      Wow.

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. GS

      That, that burns you, uh-

    8. JR

      Nah.

    9. GS

      ... to death now?

    10. JR

      Nah, it's just talking. It's no big deal.

    11. GS

      I, I, I, you know-

    12. JR

      We up?

    13. NA

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      Yeah, okay, go ahead.

    15. GS

      It's insane, you know.

    16. JR

      Why is it insane?

    17. GS

      Because, man, it's, uh, uh, sometimes I ... You know, I, I can train all day.

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. GS

      You know? But if I do something like this, like, uh, like in, like, uh, uh, autograph signing or any, like, things that require more, uh, I would say, um, you know, meet and greets and stuff like that, that take more out of me than a physical, something physical like a training, you know?

    20. JR

      That's just 'cause you're accustomed to training all the time. It's like everything else. Like, the m- the more accustomed to it you are, the easier it is.

    21. GS

      Man. Anyway, you, you look fantastic. You, you, you-

    22. JR

      Thanks. You, you too.

    23. GS

      You haven't-

    24. JR

      I like them.

    25. GS

      You haven't aged a bit. You're like, uh, wine.

    26. JR

      (laughs)

    27. GS

      You get better with age.

    28. JR

      I like the frosted tips, man. What are you doing?

    29. GS

      Uh, I changed my, uh, my style.

    30. JR

      (laughs)

  2. 1:24 – 3:50

    Lex Fridman, AI rabbit holes, and the free will vs determinism debate

    1. GS

      I had, I wa- I, I had Lex Freeman podcast yesterday.

    2. JR

      Yes.

    3. GS

      And I told my ... So I said, "You know what? It would look, it will look weird if I appears on both podcasts in Austin with the same style." You know? So I ... It's better that I sh- so w- when they put it on, uh, on the social media, at least it's kind of a different look, so. (laughs)

    4. JR

      I saw with Lex you wore the suit and tie just like him, right?

    5. GS

      Men in, Men in Black style. That's right.

    6. JR

      Nice. Nice. Reservoir Dogs.

    7. GS

      Yes. (laughs)

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. GS

      Exactly.

    10. JR

      Look at that. (laughs)

    11. GS

      (laughs)

    12. JR

      Look at you too. I love Lex. He's, he's, uh-

    13. GS

      Man.

    14. JR

      ... such a great guy.

    15. GS

      He's amazing. I, I, I really enjoy talking to guys like this because you don't meet people like this every day.

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. GS

      He's so educated, so smart.

    18. JR

      Yes.

    19. GS

      I'm, uh-

    20. JR

      But also a martial artist.

    21. GS

      Ex- ... I agree, yeah.

    22. JR

      Yeah, yeah.

    23. GS

      That's right. Uh, he, he, he t- he says that he was a big fan. He was kind of intimidated. I said, "I'm intimidating talking to you, Lex."

    24. JR

      (laughs)

    25. GS

      "Because I cannot teach you anything." You know? Like, you can teach me stuff. I can learn from you. You cannot re- like, you know, and regards of perhaps martial art, yes, but in terms of life, I'm like ... In terms of knowledge, you can teach me so much more than I can do.

    26. JR

      Yeah. It's true. If you talk to him about artificial intelligence and AI and machine learning and everything, like, oof.

    27. GS

      Bro, yesterday we went deep in the rabbit hole. We, we ... You know, like, in your podcast sometimes you curves, you go, you go in the field?

    28. JR

      Yeah.

    29. GS

      With Lex yesterday, we went in the right field, like, far away. (laughs)

    30. JR

      What'd you, what'd you discuss?

  3. 3:50 – 11:20

    Discipline, inspiration, and how environment shapes choices

    1. JR

      I think both things are true. I think it's like many things involving human beings. Th- there's not an absolute in one side or the other. For sure free will is a thing. Because we both know about discipline. We both know how difficult it is. Like, you know more than anybody how difficult it is when you're in, like, a full training camp and you're exhausted, but you know you have the work t- d- that you have to do. And there's some people that will find a way out of that work. They'll, they'll quit, or they'll, they'll not answer their phone, or they'll take time off. And then there's other people that will just bite down and deal with it.

    2. GS

      Yeah.

    3. JR

      And, and be uncomfortable, but do the work. That's free will. That's, that's discipline. There's something ... But why can you do it and why can other people not do it? Like, what about ... How much of your personality was instilled upon you because of your genetics, because of your life experiences, because of the environment that you, you grew up in? How much of it was the people that you experienced when you were younger that showed you the value and the benefit of hard work? And how many of the people that you mirrored were lazy and, and then found excuses? And maybe you, maybe you lean towards them. How much of determinism is true? How much of free will is true? It's a balance. There's, there's a lot of both things.

    4. GS

      I- that's, that's right. I ... You know, in a mechanical world, if a car breaks, we're not gonna say the c- the car decide to, to, to break.

    5. JR

      Right.

    6. GS

      Or i- if, uh, trees fall down, we're, we're not gonna say the trees decide to break. Maybe the asymmetry of the tree may- makes it falls down. May- there's a reason why. But I feel that us as human beings sometime our ego want us to be in control of the universe, which is I do not believe it's the case. So that's why I, I tend to ... Before I met Lex, I was 100% convinced there is no free will and, uh, you know, ev- everything is deci- determined by causality. Now I'm not so sure because about ... We ta- we talk about consciousness, what it is, and, and he had some incredible argument. And he made me see a different point of view that I never, never seen before.

    7. JR

      Well, just think about this. Think about how many people seek out inspiration.Think about how valuable it i- Like, Matt Frazier was on my podcast a couple of weeks ago. He was a five-time CrossFit champion. And, uh, one of the things that he does now, he has this art collection that he's selling on, on his website. And all th- It's all these inspirational quotes. And the idea is to put up this art with all these inspirational quotes, and that will give you fuel to get through your workouts or get through difficult things that you wanna do in your life. We all are ... Like, how many people post inspirational things online?

    8. GS

      Mm-hmm.

    9. JR

      And then how many people, like, you know, read those things and get excited, and it, it inspires them to action? There's some real cause and effect-

    10. GS

      That's right.

    11. JR

      ... wh- where there's inspiration and then there's action that's motivated by that inspiration. Whether it's going to The Rock's Instagram and watch him at 5:00 in the morning, "The Rock here working out-"

    12. GS

      (laughs)

    13. JR

      "... in a, in a, in a, in the, the, the, the church of iron." You know? Like, all the shit that that guy does, or all these other d- Cam Hanes or David Goggins, all these other inspirational people that are online. Why are they so motivational? Why do so many people flock to them? Because there's, there's a reality to the ... Th- There's a give and take to these things. And there's certain things that inspire you to action. You can externally be motivated by those things. It's not necessarily-

    14. GS

      Yeah.

    15. JR

      ... 100% determinism. There's, there is some free will.

    16. GS

      Well, however, th- there's, for example, a, a coat that can inspire you. But to me, it doesn't have the same effect because of my background. It doesn't get me to my core because-

    17. JR

      Right.

    18. GS

      ... I cannot rely really much to it. So it's a little bit of determinism, because it's the causality that makes it who I am and who you are that makes it ... Th- the effect of, of that coat as on you i- is different than it has on me.

    19. JR

      Or you could both grow up in the same environment. Like, you could have a brother that's inspired by things that are not even remotely inspirational to you. But to him, it's everything.

    20. GS

      (laughs)

    21. JR

      Whether it's music or whether it's a movie or a book, or whatever it is.

    22. GS

      It's true. Like in, in, in families very often, you have someone who's going the right way and may- perhaps one of his sibling will go the wrong way.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. GS

      And we always tend to say, "Oh, we don't understand," because they've been raised the same way, but they did not.

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. GS

      The, the, the moment you, you take o- one of your kid in your arm and the other one is looking at, at, at, at the kid that you're ... You know? It's, it change everything. You know what I mean?

    27. JR

      Yeah, it does.

    28. GS

      It's very hard to understand. I ... But, but I, I'm not saying that I, I'm convinced that there is no free will, but I, I don't know now. He did- he didn't completely convince me. He didn't complete me ... Make me change my mind. But he, he, he's got his point. And, and now, man, I, I don't know.

    29. JR

      I think the real problem is people that are convinced one way or the other. That's the real problem. Because it is an open-ended, uh, uh, conversation. I don't think there really ... I, I think determinism is a real factor, but I also think will is a real factor too, in that there's something about the open-ended variability of your decisions and what you decide to do and what you don't decide to do. And there's moments in your life where you go, "Fuck it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna go for it." And when you do go for it, your life changes. Like, what makes you say, "Fuck it, I'm gonna go for it"? It depends entirely on what happened that day to you. It depends entirely on how you feel, whether or not you got rest-

    30. GS

      Yeah.

  4. 11:20 – 14:06

    Adversity, confidence, and why kids need challenges (not constant rescue)

    1. GS

      I think it's important to face adversity at, uh ... It helps if you face it at a very young age, because it, it's m- it molds you.

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. GS

      Especially if you able to overcome it. Because if you never faced adversity before, and when you face it for the first time and you're not prepared for it, it can break you.

    4. JR

      Yes.

    5. GS

      You know? It can make you fold.

    6. JR

      Right.

    7. GS

      You see that very often in, in a career of a ... In mixed martial art. Guy, they ... Th- some of the guys, they've been protected for too long, and then when they face a real challenge, they fold.

    8. JR

      Yes.

    9. GS

      Same thing in anything. And, and I think guys perhaps like David Goggins or ... You know, when I heard their back stories ... Because they faced adversity. They had to face an incredible amount of adversity and they were able to overcome each of it, and they become stronger. Because what doesn't kill you make you stronger, right?

    10. JR

      Or it fucks you up to the point where you're weaker-

    11. GS

      Exactly.

    12. JR

      ... than you were before. (laughs)

    13. GS

      Exactly. But I think it, it's-

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. GS

      It's a little bit life. I think it could be like a fight. If you gradually-... face adversity.

    16. JR

      Yes.

    17. GS

      And, um, it's like someone who is, you know, someone who's very, let's say someone who's very healthy, always pay everything for his kids, you know? His kids not used to learn the- the- the importance of hard work.

    18. JR

      Yes.

    19. GS

      You know what I mean?

    20. JR

      Yes.

    21. GS

      I think it's very important, like, f- to- to- to teach that to- to kids, you know?

    22. JR

      Yes.

    23. GS

      Like the importance of hard work, the importance of adversity, uh, the importance of, you know, not to break them right when they're young and make them loss- lose their confidence, because I believe confidence is everything, right? If you don't have, can have all the skills in the wa- in the world, but if you don't have confidence, it's like someone who has a lot of money in his bank account, but no way of accessing it.

    24. JR

      Right, right.

    25. GS

      So by facing adversity and, uh, overcome it, you building your confidence. And if you-

    26. JR

      That's why sports are so important for kids. Yeah.

    27. GS

      Yeah, man, and life and same thing in business. You-

    28. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    29. GS

      You're gonna reach time that you- you're gonna go down, and sometime you might- you might go to the- the down deep. But if you faced adversity before, you're used to overcome those- those obstacle, you'll bounce back from it.

    30. JR

      Yes.

  5. 14:06 – 16:52

    How fighters are developed: boxing’s careful matchmaking vs MMA’s ‘wolves’

    1. JR

      What do you... This is a good, uh, point of discussion, because the way, um, mixed martial arts fighters, particularly in the large organizations, whether it's the UFC or Bellator or what have you, they're- they're- they're developed very differently than boxing. In boxing, they take a fighter, and the goal is to keep that fighter undefeated as long as possible till they can get them a title shot. And a really good manager and a really good trainer will progressively increase the level of the opponents that they face.

    2. GS

      That's right.

    3. JR

      They'll give you an opponent that's a- a very good inside fighter, ver- give you opponent who's got a longer reach and fights very well from the outside, and show you all these various problems that you're gonna encounter when you face a world-class opponent. Whereas in the MMA, you just get fucking thrown into the wolves and they-

    4. GS

      Well, well, your match with someone who, uh, on paper who's similar, has a similar record than you do.

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm. Right.

    6. GS

      Who- who- who has a similar skill set than you do. So it's pretty much 50/50 on paper.

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. GS

      Not always, but very often.

    9. JR

      Very often.

    10. GS

      I believe the reason why it is like that is because if you look at the UFC, for example, look at UFC the way they promote the event. UFC is like the Vaseline of Petrol Jelly.

    11. JR

      Right, or a Q-tip.

    12. GS

      People don't say, "Hey, I watch M- mixed martial art." They say, "I watch UFC."

    13. JR

      Right.

    14. GS

      So the way they promote it, it's, "UFC 226, uh, this guy versus this guy on the bottom," but they promote the UFC.

    15. JR

      Right.

    16. GS

      They don't promote the fighter, they promote mostly the brand. And it is very smart because that they- they have the monopole over the others, right?

    17. JR

      Right.

    18. GS

      Which in boxing, they build up their- their- their fighter because the money is on the fighter. It's not on the IBF title or... Yes, i- it's IBF title but it's-

    19. JR

      People don't care.

    20. GS

      ... Canelo versus Mayweather.

    21. JR

      Right.

    22. GS

      And then on the bottom, you know for what they're fighting for.

    23. JR

      Right. Right.

    24. GS

      Which in UFC is the opposite.

    25. JR

      Yeah.

    26. GS

      So that's- that's the main difference, and that's why it's like that, which is not a bad thing for their business because they- they're there to make money, right? It's a smart move. But for- for the fighters, (laughs) I mean- I mean if you're n- on the winning end, it's a good thing to- to be promoted. But if you're on the losing end, I mean-

    27. JR

      Yeah, it's a good-

    28. GS

      ... get a, get another job, you know, it's like... (laughs)

    29. JR

      But it's so, it's unusual where a guy like Jon Jones rises through the ranks, where he's 22 years old, he fights for the title and wins. That's very unusual.

    30. GS

      Yeah.

  6. 16:52 – 21:44

    Rules, rounds, stand-ups, and the entertainment vs ‘purity’ tension

    1. JR

      Do you, don't you think that's the most ridiculous rule out of all the rules?

    2. GS

      Well, if it-

    3. JR

      The 12 to 6 elbow.

    4. GS

      Joe, if it would be up to me, I mean, I would allow almost ev- anything, and I would not even make rounds. I think rounds are stupid.

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. GS

      You wanna see who's the best, man, let them fight, man. 15 minute-

    7. JR

      What about eye pokes?

    8. GS

      No, no eye poke. The problem is the gloves. Trevor Wittman came up with gloves-

    9. JR

      Yes.

    10. GS

      ... you know th- th- because the UFC glove, when you put them i- put it on, they makes you, makes your hand open like this.

    11. JR

      Yes.

    12. GS

      And, uh, for instance, there's gloves that Trevor Wittman made, the gloves naturally makes your hand fold, and that's one of the solution to the problem.

    13. JR

      They're better at protecting your hands too.

    14. GS

      100%.

    15. JR

      Trevor's gloves are the best. They're so superior.

    16. GS

      I remember, I remember every weight in, like John McCarthy used to fold the glove and wrap it to make sure it w- but it's still not enough, because when you, when you- when you put it on, it- it makes your hand open.

    17. JR

      Yeah.

    18. GS

      So that's the- the problem with the eye poke. And- and I- I believe, no, I would not allow eye- eye poke, of course, but I would, you know, no rounds for sure.

    19. JR

      What about groin shots?

    20. GS

      No, n- n- n- maybe not, not groin shot.

    21. JR

      (laughs)

    22. GS

      Like I mean, I would keep it in the- the realm of, uh, of sport, you know?

    23. JR

      Right.

    24. GS

      But yeah, man, if you want to see who's the best, man, let them fight. Because you see very often that a fight is interrupted by a round...

    25. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    26. GS

      ... and the momentum shift like 180 degree completely.

    27. JR

      Yes.

    28. GS

      And it's not fair. It's a fight. Let them fight, you know?

    29. JR

      I agree, but, b- I also think that stand-ups are bullshit. I get mad at people who go, "No, no, no, no." Like, fighters get mad at me. They're like, "You don't know what you're talking about, you know, the stand-ups are important, otherwise people will stall." I go, "Well, do something about it. Someone's holding you down."They're holding you down.

    30. GS

      (laughs) Yeah, yeah.

  7. 21:44 – 29:12

    CTE, retirement timing, and advising young athletes to keep options open

    1. GS

      Uh, however, it's not a guarantee that I will not have, uh, problems in the future. We cannot... I mean, so far, so good, touch wood. And, and I-

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. GS

      And I don't think I got any issues. But like, I, uh, I saw many doctors, because for me my health is the most important thing. And they say that there is never (laughs) a doctor that will tell you, "Oh, it's good that if you go back to fight." It's just that it's always a risk. And the risk sometimes, we don't have the technology nowadays sometimes to see if potentially you'll have problems in the future, right?

    4. JR

      Well, my hope is that the technology, medical technology will improve to the point where we can regenerate neurons and help people-

    5. GS

      Uh-huh.

    6. JR

      ... that have, have CTE. That's my real hope.

    7. GS

      Yes.

    8. JR

      Is that the... And there is some light on the horizon when it comes to that. There are some therapies that are available now that were not available just five, 10 years ago.

    9. GS

      Yeah. I, I, uh... Yeah. It's, it's sad. I, um, I see a lot of guys they take... They ha- hang on to- way too long in the sport. I mean, I mean, everybody f- keep fighting for different reasons. Right?

    10. JR

      Right.

    11. GS

      I fought myself not because I like to fight for the legacy, because I like to win, I guess, better than I hate to lose. So that's why I came back, you know. But some guys, they keep fighting. And, and I, I... They always ask me and say, "What do you think about this guy still fighting?" You know? And I'm like, "If it were me, I would have retired a long time ago, because you have a prime window."

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. GS

      And if... When you're past your prime, what's the point? You know you're hurting your legacy. But if you, you do it because you love to fight or you do it because you need the money, that's, that's okay. That's your, your choice, you know?

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. GS

      But I think it's a very, very, uh, sad thing. And, and also another thing, very often I got, I got parent coming with their, their kids coming to me and telling me, "Hey, this is the, the future world champion, you know. What advice would you tell him?" And I always tell them the same thing. I disappoint them all, uh, always, almost all of them. I tell-

    16. JR

      Don't do it.

    17. GS

      No, I said to them, I say, "You... How's, how's school, how's school doing?" They're like, "Oh, I don't really like it." I said, "Stay at school, be good, keep training. It's good for you, you know. It's a, it's a good for, for you, but don't put your eggs in the same basket k- kid, you know. Like, keep training." And the kid- the parent always look at me like this, like... And I'm like, "It's not because I made it that I'm gonna try to convince your kid to choose the same path, you know."

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. GS

      Uh, uh, uh...... in order, it's a very hard journey.

    20. JR

      Especially when you're dealing with a kid.

    21. GS

      Oh, man, it's-

    22. JR

      You don't know how that kid's gonna grow. Like, some kids grow up to be terrible athletes.

    23. GS

      That's right.

    24. JR

      Through no fault of their own. They just, they're slow, they can't hit hard, they don't get hit well, they, they have a bad chin. Like, there's cer- certain aspects that you can't control when it comes to an athlete.

    25. GS

      And, and Joe, I'm not talking only about MMA, I'm talking about basketball, hockey, baseball, same thing.

    26. JR

      Yes, yes.

    27. GS

      It's the same thing. Like-

    28. JR

      But more consequences with fighting than any of the other ones.

    29. GS

      100... Uh, yeah, b- hockey, uh-

    30. JR

      Football.

  8. 29:12 – 32:44

    Training smarter: playful sparring, avoiding gym wars, and preserving longevity

    1. GS

      I, I believe the best way to improve, it's when it's playful. I've seen so many guys, Joe, I can't say names, but it's crazy how many guys I've seen that left their career in the gyms.

    2. JR

      Yes.

    3. GS

      'Cause they sparred too hard. Every sparring for them, it's, it's about winning the round.

    4. JR

      Yeah, it's about life or death. Yeah.

    5. GS

      Y- you cannot improve like this.

    6. JR

      Yeah.

    7. GS

      It need to be playful.

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. GS

      Of course, when you're in training camp and your fight is coming up, you need to somehow trying to recreate that environment of discomfort, that stress. But when you're outside of that prepara- preparation zone, you need, you need to be playful, bec-... And that's when you, you improve, when it's playful, when it's like a game. You know? Because y- you will be more prone to trying new things. And, and by trying new things, you, you'll, you'll adapt. You'll, you'll be like, "Oh, this one works, this one doesn't work. But the one that works, I keep it in my back pocket."

    10. JR

      Yeah. Yeah.

    11. GS

      You know? And it, it makes you grow. That's the problems, you know, I've seen, like-... as very often I see guys, like, sparring, they- they- (laughs) they lose a lot of brain cells. It's terrible. It's terrible.

    12. JR

      Terrible.

    13. GS

      And I'm world- I'm former world champion, you know? Like, when I've sparred with- with guys, very often, they are nervous, so they become all stiff. And when they hit, they hit so hard. I tell them, I'm like, "You don't get ready... You don't have any fight coming up soon." Like, "Just have fun, but relax." I tell them, "Relax," and they... S- very often, they- they relax. You know, some will try to make... (laughs) You know?

    14. JR

      Try to make it off.

    15. GS

      So I have to answer back. Y- I have to, but- but very often, they relax, and- and- and- and they're surprised that... Because it's so, uh, so much of an egotistic sport, you know? Like, we have this mentality that, "Oh, if the guy tell you to relax, it's because he's scared," you know?

    16. JR

      Right.

    17. GS

      It's so stupid, you know? But it's... That's how... If you wanna improve, you need to... It needs to be playful, and- and- and everything. You know? You- w- we say, "Oh, you..." When I say sparring, l- when I, when I'm about to spar with someone I never sparred before, I... That's what I do. I tell him, I say, "Hey, would you like to play a little bit?" I don't use the word sparring, 'cause sparring is, like, aggression, and then-

    18. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    19. GS

      ... like, I tell him, I say, "Would you like to play a little bit there?" Then we touch glove and we play. And- and I never go hard. I always start very- very slow, and if I see that he's d- going too hard, I tell him, I say, "Please go- go- go more- more easy." And of course, if- if he's getting ready for a fight, it's different. It's a different situations, but, you know, that's how it is, you know? When you need... You shouldn't be afraid to tell (laughs) your training partner, "Hey, please, like, put it, like, slow down a notch." You know? Like- like, when you see guys trying to throw a head kick to knock each other out, you know? In boxing sparring, it's different because we- we have big gloves, big headgear, you know? They can go hard, I mean, w- even if it's not good because it's repeatedly blows... Repetition to... And- with the blows to the head, but in MMA with the kicks, it's... The damage is basically like a baseball bat hitting your head. You can't do that. It's-

    20. JR

      No, terrible.

    21. GS

      ... it's crazy, man.

    22. JR

      The Thais have it right, right?

    23. GS

      That's right.

    24. JR

      (laughs)

    25. GS

      That's right, because they have so many fights. They have so many fights that... A- a- and also, when you fight someone... When I fight someone, it happened very often in my career, like, when I fight someone, you have s- a- a- a connection with the guy you fight. A lot of things happen here, and real fighter will know that, uh, what I'm talking about, the connection that we have, because you look at each other, and these... This connection, you cannot see it when you watch a fight on TV. But very often,

  9. 32:44 – 36:24

    Fight psychology: winning safely, opponents ‘fighting not to lose,’ and champion adaptation

    1. GS

      in most of my fight, when I went to decision, I could see the guy break- breaking, folding, like he's letting me know that he doesn't fight to win anymore. He's fighting to not lose.

    2. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. GS

      And l- l- like I said earlier, it's not up to me trying to- trying to push the pace, trying to- to finish him and- and increasing my risk of getting caught by a counterpunch and getting knocked out, you know? It's up to him to take the risk, you know, because he's losing the fight. And the idea in this game, you wanna save yourself for another day. I mean, i- i- it's sad to say for the fan, but this the... This is the truth. If you win and th- that's what you're doing is good of... You win, you're winning the fight, you know? You- you're gonna get paid the- the- the same amount of money. Of course, if you have, like, a- an highlight reel, something like that, it- it could increase your pay, but- but in terms of your career, I believe you s- should see your career as a marathon, not as a sprint. So you- you- you kind of save yourself. And a lot of time, I've fought guys, I could see in their face that, oh, he doesn't wanna be there anymore. Like, I know I'm winning the fight before even the fight is over. They get desperate. Of course they're gonna throw a haymaker or something, but I know they're not gonna take any risk because they- they're- they're hurt. They're- they lost already. They know that I'm better than them, and that's when I know I get the fight, and I know that I'm- just need to be on cruise control. I can win if they don't... Like, it's hard to- to finish someone who doesn't fight to win anymore.

    4. JR

      Right.

    5. GS

      You see very often champions in- in MMA have a very dominite- dominant career in the beginning. You know, they finish a lot of their opponent. But after a while, it become... It kind of peak because all... The entire UFC roster is studying you, and they figure you out. Maybe they didn't figure you out how to beat you, but they figure out how to s- kind of survive and- and hang in there with you.

    6. JR

      Jon Jones is a good example of that, right?

    7. GS

      Everybody, myself, same thing.

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. GS

      Like, every... Like, a lot of guy, Anderson Silva, the- the- the- the-

    10. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    11. GS

      ... the- all the- the- the champions, that's what happen.

    12. JR

      Everyone's studying you.

    13. GS

      Yes. It's hard to become champion. That's why I told Francis, uh, again, well, I say, say, "Man, it's hard to become champion now. Now- now the entire roster-"

    14. JR

      He's a different animal.

    15. GS

      Y- yeah, but-

    16. JR

      (laughs) He hits so hard.

    17. GS

      Oh, man, it's... He's a scary human being.

    18. JR

      He's so sc-

    19. GS

      It's unbelievable.

    20. JR

      Pull the- pull the microphone up in front of your face a little bit more there, yeah.

    21. GS

      Like this?

    22. JR

      Yeah, he's the scariest.

    23. GS

      Yeah.

    24. JR

      Isn't he the scariest heavyweight of all time?

    25. GS

      Uh, yeah, man. I think so.

    26. JR

      No one's scarier.

    27. GS

      Well-

    28. JR

      A nat- natural 265 pounds and knocks everyone out.

    29. GS

      It's true. Th- th- there is guys that were... That- that were very scary in the beginning, but then after... When they got some other guys figure out how to beat them, they're like, "Oh, okay. They're not so scary anymore."

    30. JR

      But even guys that are really scary like Anderson Silva, it's usually multiple punches that he would knock you out with.

  10. 36:24 – 1:03:52

    Would GSP come back? Southpaw ‘secret cards,’ self-criticism, and the Khabib lure

    1. JR

      Is he the guy that you would come back for?

    2. GS

      I would have. Like, now-

    3. JR

      You would have?

    4. GS

      ... now it's all over now.

    5. JR

      You're done? That's it?

    6. GS

      I'm done. It's three- tr- three years ago I took Mike.

    7. JR

      Well, (imitates phone ringing) "Hey, GSP, it's Dana White."

    8. GS

      No.

    9. JR

      "Listen-

    10. GS

      No.

    11. JR

      ... I got a fight for you."

    12. GS

      No, I'm gonna explain to you. If he, if he wants me to fight, he needs to, to do it, like, th- that's how he needs to do it. He needs to hide himself, wait that I'm in a gym training. Bah, bah, bah. Like, uh, for example, uh, when I was an early with Freddy Roach, hitting the pads and-

    13. JR

      Yes.

    14. GS

      ... getting back because I haven't done this. It's because of COVID, everything is closed in, in Montreal.

    15. JR

      Right.

    16. GS

      But I went back, and now I found, I found ba- found my mechanic back, man. And when you hit, when you train in mixed martial art and combat sport, you become a different person, you know? And ta, ta, ta, ta, ta. And, and Freddy look, look at me like... He's like, "Georges, you, you got the hitch back." I'm like, "Ah, stop saying that."

    17. JR

      (laughs)

    18. GS

      And if Dana White would walk in right now in the gym, in between round, I would sign the contract in a-

    19. JR

      Really?

    20. GS

      ... blink of an eye.

    21. JR

      Ooh.

    22. GS

      But then after I go back home, go back in Montreal in my comfort, and I'm like, "Hell no."

    23. JR

      There you are. There you are working with Freddy.

    24. GS

      Yeah, and, um, and people are, are like, "Hey, are you practicing left-handed?" I, I always been, uh, uh, both-sided.

    25. JR

      Switch hitter. Yeah. I like how Freddy has a, a fucking... He's got a mask on his chin.

    26. GS

      (laughs)

    27. JR

      What's that protecting, Freddy? Take that stupid goddamn thing off.

    28. GS

      La- la- la- and, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm left-handed because I always been left-handed. It, it was a card that I... A secret card that I kept in my, uh, in my arsenal that I... If I would have need to use it. But I-

    29. JR

      You switch?

    30. GS

      Yes, I was going to switch perhaps with Bisping in the, in the fourth round or in the fifth.

  11. 1:03:52 – 1:23:18

    Secret weapons: reaction-time frame analysis, feints, blind spots, and nervous-system fatigue

    1. GS

      And now, we're getting into some, some of what I call secret weapon stuff, you know. Like, like, um ... You know, some people have secret weapons, secret knowledge. Knowledge is a-

    2. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    3. GS

      ... is a, is a weapon. I had a guy when I was, uh, training, when I was champion, uh, during my wel- welterweight run. I had a guy in Montreal that was measuring frames. Nobody knows that. He was watching fight, and he was making frame with image. So when someone threw a punch, click, click, click, click. And by doing that, he was able to know who has better reaction times than others. So if you watch my first fight with BJ Penn, I had an hor- horrible first round. And that fight was very competitive, you know, all the way to the end, you know. Like, very, very tight fight. I went into that fight without that knowledge. And normally, when I w- when I was competing, I, I used to always be the fastest guy. When I fought BJ Penn, he was so freaking fast. He was in his prime. And I remember, normally when I w- when I go first, I'm, I always touch the target. But BJ Penn, I couldn't touch him. He was so fast. My jab didn't work, because he was always, like, avoiding it and coming back with a counterpunch or, or, you know, counter jab. And he messed me up real fast. So I had, to the second and third round, I had, had to change my strategy to wrestle him. I won the fight by an inch. After I met that guy, that ... He's not a scientist, he's a guy that does that for fun. And he show me what, what, what he did. And I thought it was just incredible. It was like a secret weapon, secret knowledge that nobody knows. He told me BJ Penn has the fastest reaction time of all the UFC roster that he could measure. And the way he did it is when you throw a punch or a kick, how much frame it takes him to rea- react to that, uh, body sti- stimu- stimuli.

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. GS

      Stimuli. And I know that BJ Penn had the be- fastest reaction time. Leo Tomashino, by the way, was second place.

    6. JR

      Really?

    7. GS

      Yes, yes. But this, over time, can change because your brain can't punch in ... You know? So things change like that.

    8. JR

      The body slows down.

    9. GS

      Yes. I'm talking about prime BJ Penn. I knew BJ Penn had the best reaction time, but I knew also he had a poor reset time. And poor reset time is ... The guy told me that if I ... When I fought BJ Penn the second time, I knew that if I come into the fight, I couldn't go first because he was too fast. What I did is ... Because the nervous system is like a muscle. If you do a lot of, a lot of, uh, reps, you get tired fast. You might, you might be like a sprinter and had a very good, uh, start, but you will get tired fast. So when I fought BJ Penn the first fight, when I tell you that ...... when I, when you fight someone, there's like a, a, a relation that happen up here that nobody sees around. When I fight B-Jeppe, I was faking a lot, showing him, showing him all these, these, uh, creativity, all these-

    10. JR

      In the second fight?

    11. GS

      Yes. Because I wanted to load up his nervous system to make him tired, because I knew he had a g- quick reaction time, so he was flinching a lot. I wa- I was making him flinch and react. He was getting stiff and stiff and flinching 'cause I wanna get it out of his system. So, he, when he got tired and his nervous system is tired, now I could attack.

    12. JR

      Mm.

    13. GS

      That's why my second fight, I had much more success against him than in my first fight.

    14. JR

      Is this something that Firas and you d- d- devised?

    15. GS

      Yes.

    16. JR

      'Cause I know Firas talks about that a lot, about, uh, overriding someone's, like, overwhelming their, their system-

    17. GS

      Yes.

    18. JR

      ... with complications-

    19. GS

      What-

    20. JR

      ... with, with possibilities.

    21. GS

      When you wanna do is, you want to, you want to ov- you want to load up his nervous system by showing him different thing, different, different threat, kick, punch, uh, fake it. Faking anything you wanna do, that stimulate him. If you stay in front of him and you don't move, that does not, will... That, that will not make him flinch, nothing like this. So, you need to make him flinch. Even if it's not real, but you need to make him react. And i- if you make him react, he will flinch and get tired. His nervous system will get tired and he won't... His reaction time will, will slow down. That's why I was able to get him.

    22. JR

      Mm.

    23. GS

      And that's why a lot of... I was able to figure out a lot of guys that I was fighting, because w- w- we're wa- we had that information that nobody has. A lot of people have different, you know, tricks. You know, it's, uh, like a, like a war, you wanna... You know, like the Amer- the American had the atomic bomb, you know. Like, like in fighting, we have that, that knowledge, you know?

    24. JR

      So, watching, studying film and breaking down the amount-

    25. GS

      Yes.

    26. JR

      ... of frames?

    27. GS

      Yes.

    28. JR

      Interesting.

    29. GS

      That's, that's how we did it. That's one of the secret weapon I had. And now, I- l- I- uh, I'm sure, uh, some other guys use it as well.

    30. JR

      Well, you had different approaches to different fighters, too. It's really interesting if you look at your career, like, you had a different approach to Thiago Alves, then you did it Josh Koscheck, then you did it Jon Fitch. Like, every fight, you came in with like a different strategy and a different approach.

Episode duration: 3:34:41

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode t7CF9J90O5U

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

iOSAndroidClaudeChrome