JRE MMA Show #108 with Stephen Thompson

Joe Rogan 0:00 (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience.

Joe Rogan 0:06 Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Wonderboy in the house, ladies and gentlemen.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:16 What's up?

Joe Rogan 0:16 What's up, brother? What's going on, man?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:17 Dude.

Joe Rogan 0:18 Thanks for coming in.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:19 Thank you, man. Appreciate you having me. Glad to be on with you.

Joe Rogan 0:21 Long time coming. Should've had you in-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:23 I know.

Joe Rogan 0:23 ... a long time ago, but it's just-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:25 I know.

Joe Rogan 0:25 ... you know, schedules, times, things.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:27 (sighs) We had planned on it, like, last summer or something like that.

Joe Rogan 0:30 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:30 I mean, we were ... it was one of those things, but then obviously-

Joe Rogan 0:33 The COVID.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:34 ... COVID ... The COVID, the vid.

Joe Rogan 0:34 The COVID.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:36 (sighs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:36 But, dude, you're still rocking at the top of the food chain. It's amazing.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:42 I'm saying. I'm- people, people are saying I'm too old. I'm 38.

Joe Rogan 0:46 Well, look at your victory over Vicente Luque and then look what Luque just did to Tyron Woodley. You're still at the top of the fucking food chain, 'cause that was real recently that you beat him.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 0:56 Yeah. It wa- I mean, it was, what? A year ... It was two years ago.

Joe Rogan 1:00 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:01 Two years ago, I beat, I beat Vicente. But, uh, yeah, man, people saying I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm too old, and I guess once you get knocked out one time, you just ... They throw you to the side.

Joe Rogan 1:11 That's people that don't understand the human chin.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14 It's just like ... It's just, it's just a fact. You get hit-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:17 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:17 ... with a perfect shot, there's-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:19 It wasn't even hard. It wasn't even hard. You know, I've been hit harder. Tyron hit me harder. Jake Ellenberger hit me harder. This was just right on the button.

Joe Rogan 1:26 It's crazy, isn't it?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:27 To be honest with you, it was like, it was like a, a relief being knocked out. I mean, I've got close to 80-something fights with kickboxing and MMA together and I've never been knocked out, and it was always one of those d- you know, le- going into a fight, "This is gonna be it."

Joe Rogan 1:44 Hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:44 "This is, this is gonna be the time I get knocked out." This was always going through my head. And now that it happened, it's not that bad. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:51 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:51 It's really not that bad. I would rather get knocked out than get just the crap beat out of me for five five-minute rounds.

Joe Rogan 1:58 Have you ever been knocked out in training?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:59 No.

Joe Rogan 2:00 So that was the only time ever in your whole career you've been knocked out?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 2:03 Only time ever.

Joe Rogan 2:03 And it was a wild punch, too.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 2:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:04 The fact that he caught you with a Superman punch.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 2:06 Oh, man. The, the memes after that were hilar- w- were hilar- I don't know if you saw it, but it was funny.

Joe Rogan 2:11 You gotta think, though, you've dished it out so many times.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 2:14 I know.

Joe Rogan 2:15 You know?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 2:15 I know.

Joe Rogan 2:15 Through your kickboxing career and MMA. I mean, there's so many times you've flat-lined people.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 2:21 And then, uh, yeah, I get, I get knocked out by a guy (laughs) in a light- in a lighter weight class. My dad ... My family is pretty rough. They d- they, they bring it up as much as they can.

Joe Rogan 2:30 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 2:31 I was in the hospital that night and, uh, my dad's doing a, like, a Facebook Live thing, 'cause you know, we had a bunch of p- bunch of, you know, karate f- or karate families and karate kids there. We pretty much sold out that arena. Greenville, South Carolina were ... I mean, everybody was there to watch me fight, and then I get crushed, or I get knocked out, and then, uh ... You know, everybody wanna know how I am, so I did a, like ... It was probably 2:00 AM. Did a Facebook Live and my dad's just eating me alive.

Joe Rogan 2:59 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 2:59 Eating me alive. "Yeah, he got knocked out." He's like, "Yeah, by a smaller guy, too." And he's just letting me have it, but, you know, it's-

Joe Rogan 3:06 Oh.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 3:06 ... that's how I grow up, man. That's how he is.

Joe Rogan 3:07 It is what it is.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 3:08 Yep. You know?

Joe Rogan 3:09 You, you took it really well in terms of, like, the way you reacted in social media and the way you reacted when you were asked about it, you know?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 3:16 Well-

Joe Rogan 3:17 Showed poise.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 3:18 Thank you. Tha- I mean, it ... What, what can you do? I mean, you can't just sit there and cry about it.

Joe Rogan 3:22 No.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 3:22 You know? Uh, yeah, it, it bothered me for a while that, you know, why did I not see it coming? I normally see this stuff coming.

Joe Rogan 3:29 Do you think you were relaxed when he hit you? Is that what it was?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 3:31 I think it was definitely a distance thing, 'cause when I, when I, I had sidekicked, I watched it over and over and over again. I don't remember any of the second round. I don't remember any of it. All I remember is getting up off the stool, looking across the, the cage, and I seen his bloody nose. He's banged up and I'm like, "All right. Time to, time to pick it up. I'm gonna finish him this round." This is what was going through my head. That's all I remember. And I got knocked out, five seconds left in the second round.

Joe Rogan 3:54 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 3:54 I don't remember anything. I don't remember sitting up, talking to him in the cage. They, people say I was, like, high-fiving people as I was walking by. All I remember is, like, these sparkles kind of fade away and I see Chris Weidman's face right there. He's laughing at me. He's, like, smiling at me. And he said, "If you ask me that again, I'm gonna slap you." I guess I asked him the same question. I kept saying, you know, "What happened? How'd I get knocked out? I got knocked out?" Just kept saying that stuff over and over again.

Joe Rogan 4:19 That's what people do when they get knocked out. They, they ask the same question, "What happened?" over and over again.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 4:24 It was such a weird thing. And then, you know, not remembering any of that, and then just being in the back. It's like I got teleported there. I was fighting-

Joe Rogan 4:33 Hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 4:33 ... and then I was there. And he ... I, I remember him helping me, trying to answer the doctor's questions. He's like, "You know what day it is?" I'm like, "Uh ... " And Chris is like, "Stephen, come on. You know what day it is." (laughs) He's, like, trying to help me out answer these questions. But, uh, that's all I remember, man, is, is that. But, uh, it's ... It was a relief. Like, I have nothing ... (sighs) What else? I mean, that's, like, the worst thing that can happen.

Joe Rogan 4:54 Why, why, why do you feel like it's a relief?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 4:57 Well, you know, it was such a worry. You know, I've, I've knocked out people. I've, I've, I've seen how they are, you know, getting up off the canvas and the, the, you know ... What it's done to people psychologically, getting knocked out. And that's always been kind of like, "How would I handle that?"

Joe Rogan 5:13 Hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 5:14 You know? "How would I handle that?" How would I, how would ... You've seen people get knocked out and they, they try and come back, maybe as soon as possible, which is not a good thing. They should-

Joe Rogan 5:21 It's a terrible thing.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 5:22 Yeah, they should give their time, you know, time for their body to heal up, but, um, you know, I've seen people do that. It was always a worry for me. "How would I handle that?"

Joe Rogan 5:30 Yeah, I always get concerned when I see someone who gets knocked out and they wanna get right back in there. I'm like-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 5:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:35 ... "Ooh, you're asking for trouble." 'Cause you might feel fine, but you probably are a little loose.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 5:40 (smacks lips) Yeah. It's funny you said that, because they ... UFC wanted me to fight, wanted me to fight two months later in my hometown.

Joe Rogan 5:47 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 5:48 And after, the day after, was going to get some breakfast with some, with some friends, um, still in Knoxville, with the fam. And I get a call from, um, Dana, I think it was Hunter. "Hey, man, you still wanting to fight in Greenville, South Carolina?"... of course, the athlete in myself said yes. Like, I wanted to jump back in there and-

Joe Rogan 6:08 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 6:09 But then, you know, reality kicked in and, you know, I look over at my pops and he's like the, he, I think he already known who it was. He said that, he, he just shook his head.

Joe Rogan 6:18 Who was it that you were supposed to?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 6:20 Um, I don't think we had anybody. The UFC should've made it Anthony Pettis.

Joe Rogan 6:25 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 6:25 It was only, like, two months later. It should've been Anthony Pettis in my hometown. But, um, and I didn't find out that the UFC was in Greenville, I found that out watching some fights, like, uh, a few months before.

Joe Rogan 6:38 So are you saying that the UFC should've made a rematch with Anthony Pettis?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 6:40 Not a rematch-

Joe Rogan 6:40 Or it should've, had, that should've been when you fought Pettis?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 6:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 6:43 Was in your hometown.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 6:44 Yes.

Joe Rogan 6:44 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 6:45 We would've, we would've sold that out.

Joe Rogan 6:46 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 6:46 My first MMA fight was in the arena the UFC was at.

Joe Rogan 6:50 Mm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 6:50 Um, the Bonsecours Wellness Arena. And it was standing room only.

Joe Rogan 6:54 What organization was that for?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 6:55 It was a, it was a, uh, promotion called Fight Party. And a lot of UFC fighters came up. OSP was on my first card.

Joe Rogan 7:01 Really?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 7:01 It was crazy. OSP was fighting. Um, I think... Who else was on that card? Uh, both, uh, Limar Brothers were on that card. And it was my very first MMA fight in my hometown. And the main event, I think it was OSP was main event, but his fighter ended up not making weight or something. That didn't happen, so they pushed me to m- to the main ev- main event.

Joe Rogan 7:24 W- what year was this?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 7:25 This was 2010.

Joe Rogan 7:27 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 7:28 2010. And I'm like, "What?" I had no wrestling-

Joe Rogan 7:32 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 7:32 ... no, I mean, blue belt, barely blue belt probably in jujitsu. And I'm like, "All right." And I'm, I'm fighting a wrestler.

Joe Rogan 7:41 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 7:41 Ended up knocking him out in the second round. And I almost threw up all in the ring. That would've been twice-

Joe Rogan 7:47 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 7:47 ... that would've happened to me. Twice. Because I had no idea how to cut weight. I didn't, I hadn't been 170 since 11th grade in high school.

Joe Rogan 7:55 What were you weighing when you were kickboxing?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 7:57 Uh, I would actually fight up in weight.

Joe Rogan 7:59 Yeah?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 8:00 I would, I would weigh in with keys in my pocket, weights in my pocket. I fought at 185, fought at 195. I fought for the World Combat League, I would fight up in that. But nobody's grabbing ahold of you there, so-

Joe Rogan 8:12 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 8:12 ... you really didn't have to worry about the weight. And I was a lot faster than the guys that were, you know, heavier than me. So, um, that was a, that was a crazy experience.

Joe Rogan 8:20 That World Combat League was an interesting situation.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 8:23 It was wild, right?

Joe Rogan 8:24 Yeah. I, I, I went to one of them. Uh-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 8:26 Which one?

Joe Rogan 8:27 I'm trying to remember. I think it was in Atlantic City. I'm trying to remember where it was at.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 8:31 I might've been on that card.

Joe Rogan 8:32 You might've been on that card.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 8:33 I think I fought a guy named Carlos Tierney. Carlos Tierney?

Joe Rogan 8:38 I'm not... I, I don't remember if you were on that card or not. I definitely watched you fight on, in those events. But I, I watched you a lot when Firas Zahabi was talking well about you. I was like, "Let me check this dude out." And then I saw some of your kickboxing fights, and I saw you in the World Combat League, and I was like, "Oh, shit." You, you, uh, when you got into UFC, I got really excited because you represented a style that I had been talking about for a while. 'Cause everybody was like, you know, for striking, it was Muay Thai. For submissions, it was jujitsu. And then there was wrestling.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 9:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:11 Like, that's, like, kind of everybody had this idea of, like, what was effective and what wasn't. And I was like, "Man, I'm telling you, if you've, if you find a guy who really understands karate, who has that sideways stance and a really good front leg, he's gonna fuck a lot of people up and they're not gonna know what to do with it." And a lot of people, like, dismissed me. They're like, "What are you talking about?" They, they thought I was just, that I was reminiscing about my traditional martial arts days.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 9:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:35 And I was like, "No. I'm telling you, man. Dudes with a good front leg, like, that's a totally different animal to get in on. When a guy has that sideways stance, and then when you're fighting, like, with your hands down and no one knew what to do and you lean back like a snake when guys are punching and you go forward." I'm like, "That's a totally different style, and it's a fucking really sneaky one. It's hard to handle."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 9:58 It is definitely a, a, a, a very difficult style to prepare for as well.

Joe Rogan 10:02 Oh, yeah. Well, try finding-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:04 I know.

Joe Rogan 10:04 ... and it, you got, like, you, Raymond Daniels. There's, like, a couple guys out there-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:08 That can do it.

Joe Rogan 10:08 ... that can emulate that style.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:10 And it, I, I think it was, 'cause I remember in the early years, especially when Lyoto Machida was coming in, right?

Joe Rogan 10:15 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:15 He's a traditional, what? Kyokushin? Was it Kyokushin style?

Joe Rogan 10:19 Um...

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:20 Shotokan? I think it was Kyokushin.

Joe Rogan 10:21 I think so. Shotokan.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:22 Shotokan?

Joe Rogan 10:22 I think it was Shotokan, yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:23 Okay, I know, I know GSP was Shotokan as well.

Joe Rogan 10:25 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:25 That was kind of his background.

Joe Rogan 10:26 I think.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:27 Background.

Joe Rogan 10:27 Let's find out. What is, uh, Lyoto Machida's original karate style? I want to say it's Shotokan.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:32 His dad was J- straight Japanese, right? He married-

Joe Rogan 10:35 Yes.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:35 ... his mom was Brazilian.

Joe Rogan 10:36 Yes.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:37 So, um, and people thought, didn't think karate worked. Karate was just a froufrou style, McDojo style, um, you know, not geared toward real applications, you know?

Joe Rogan 10:50 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:50 And in the early UFCs, it was looked down upon.

Joe Rogan 10:54 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 10:54 The karate style. I guess because, I don't know if Karate Kid? (laughs) You know? I think that era, the '80s, you know, a lot of people saw that karate can make them a lot of money. And so they were opening up-

Joe Rogan 11:06 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:06 ... those McDojo schools left and right, and-

Joe Rogan 11:09 Same with Taekwondo, same with Kung Fu. There's a lot of traditional martial arts that did have some real life applications, and they got severely watered down.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:18 Because people didn't want to lose a lot of students, so they didn't want to make it really difficult for you to advance and to move up, uh-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:25 And even-

Joe Rogan 11:26 Shotokan.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:27 Shotokan.

Joe Rogan 11:29 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:30 Shotokan.

Joe Rogan 11:30 Yeah, he does a black belt when he was 13.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:30 I didn't even notice that.

Joe Rogan 11:31 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:32 This right here. That's, it's ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 11:33 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:34 I love this. I need one of you.

Joe Rogan 11:37 (laughs) There's only one Jaime.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:38 I know. I know it. I need, I need a Jamie.

Joe Rogan 11:40 You'll, you'll find some dude who pretends to be Jamie.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:42 He'll be annoying. (laughs) But this, uh, this style of this sideways stuff... Michael Venom Page is another really-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:50 Oh, my goodness.

Joe Rogan 11:50 ... interesting example.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:51 He's awesome.

Joe Rogan 11:52 He, he's super unusual, because...He was an elite ... well, Ray ... Raymond Daniels was as well. He was an elite point fighter.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 11:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:00 And people were always, like, making fun of point fighting. I'm like, "Man, you never sparred with those guys."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 12:04 Man.

Joe Rogan 12:04 I fought in a few of those tournaments, and-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 12:05 Fast.

Joe Rogan 12:06 Oh, my God. Their whole thing was just don't- jumping in and blitzing.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 12:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:10 And even if it wasn't the most powerful or effective techniques, like, you had to adjust to this new way of fighting.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 12:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:18 Because everybody else, like, if you were a Muay Thai guy, you know, you're used to fighting in this rhythm, and these guys are moving (laughs) around and jumping and leaping forward, and-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 12:25 Get you flinching, you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 12:27 Oh, yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 12:27 And that's what, you know ... and, that's ... I think that was the reason why. And, and of course, the, the point fighting.

Joe Rogan 12:32 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 12:32 You got schools that kind of gravitated, forgot it ... forget all the, the self-defense stuff-

Joe Rogan 12:37 Right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 12:37 ... let's just focus on the competition.

Joe Rogan 12:39 Point tournaments, yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 12:40 And then people think a real s- a real fight's gonna be like that. They just want to mess somebody up.

Joe Rogan 12:43 Point tour- point fighting is ... i- in real-life application, it's fairly dumb.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 12:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:49 But there's real benefits to learning how to win at those things.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 12:53 I agree.

Joe Rogan 12:53 To learning how to blitz. To learning how to, like, leap forward with strikes. You shouldn't do it all the time, but if you have that ability-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 13:01 Use it.

Joe Rogan 13:01 The thing is, like, when you see guys who have that ability and then they learn the other stuff like you did, they learn the wrestling, they learn submissions, then they become very dangerous-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 13:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:10 ... because you have this whole range where they thrive in, where most people are completely lost.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 13:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:17 This range on the outside where you're standing there like that, doing a lot of this, throwing a lot of those front leg techniques. You see these guys, you're like, "Shit, I gotta get closer to him."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 13:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:26 You know? Like, that's, uh, that's crazy that they can't compete at a s- a very specific range, and for 170, you're pretty tall and long, too. So you have this height and reach advantage as well.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 13:37 Yeah, the, the, the, the street fighting thing, I, I, I agree with you 'cause you YouTube street fights now, and it's like 99.9 of 'em, nine percent of them, they end up on the ground. They're, they're, they-

Joe Rogan 13:47 99, but the ones where a guy can deliver a wheel kick in a street fight-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 13:50 Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 13:50 ... holy shit. (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 13:52 (laughs) Oh, God. You seen that?

Joe Rogan 13:53 I've seen a few of those.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 13:54 Oh, it's ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 13:55 Crazy.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 13:56 Oh, I know. And everybody is just ... you're just going crazy.

Joe Rogan 13:58 (screams) What?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 13:59 (screams) What?

Joe Rogan 13:59 Yeah, if someone pulls off, like, a real, like, movie martial arts technique in a street fight-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 14:04 And probably killed the guy 'cause he hit his head on the pavement, but ...

Joe Rogan 14:06 I know, right?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 14:07 Right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:07 That's the scary thing.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 14:08 I'm sc- I, I told myself, like, "If I were ever in a street situation," you know, hopefully I've never been in one, but I'm like, "Hey, man, let's go to the grass."

Joe Rogan 14:13 Yeah. (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 14:13 "Let's move over here to the grassy area, just in case."

Joe Rogan 14:16 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 14:17 You know? But yeah-

Joe Rogan 14:17 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 14:17 ... the point fighting thing, he ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:19 (laughs) The nicest street fighter ever.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 14:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:22 At East, you know what I mean?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 14:23 The NMF, man. I gotta hold that, I gotta hold that title, you know?

Joe Rogan 14:24 That's so funny. Not only the nicest MMA fighter, the nicest street fighter. (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 14:28 I'm gonna tell you. I was in some scuffles, you know, in, in high school. And I remember beating the crap out of this kid, and his mom rolls up, you know, to pick him up after school. This is right after school, and I ... He was ... My sister was just ... she's a badass, man. My o- my older sister. She fought kickboxing. She kicked my behind for years. I mean, I've seen her knock dudes out. My sister was-

Joe Rogan 14:49 Really?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 14:49 She married Carlos Machado.

Joe Rogan 14:51 Right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 14:51 And, um, she fought kickboxing at, at, at, you know, amateur. Never, never went pro. But at a, at a very high level, and she just would just mess people up. And she had gotten in a scuffle in school and just beat the crap out of some dude, so she was kind of on her last leg. And nobody messed with her. I mean, it ... you know what she's like when you meet her. She's a very honest person, but she's not the nicest way. She doesn't-

Joe Rogan 15:16 Right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 15:17 She's just very straightforward, you know? If you look ugly, she'll say, "You look ugly."

Joe Rogan 15:20 She's the opposite of you.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 15:21 (laughs) Exactly.

Joe Rogan 15:22 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 15:22 She's more like my dad.

Joe Rogan 15:24 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 15:24 And, um, but she was in, uh, some heated argument with this guy, and this guy comes up to do something. I kinda pushed my sister outta the way and I hit this dude. I'm, I'm walking over from the middle school. You know, the high school and middle school are right next to each other, so I'd have to walk over and then get picked up from our ... from my parents. So I'm like s- seventh grade, maybe eighth grade. This kid's probably in 10th grade. And so I, like, sidekicked this dude. He backs ... I hit him right in the chest. I'm a lot smaller than him. And I know Lindsay, if she gets in trouble, she's getting expelled. And, um, my dad's a pretty rough dude. You don't want to get expelled living under his household, you know? And then, uh, so I end up piecing him up just, just ... I hit him with a three-piece combination, his lips bleeding, he's on the ground. And to be honest, I don't even know what I did. I don't even know how I did it. It was just, like, such a blur. I've never been in a ... that kind of situation before. Maybe once or twice, that was it. And, um, it was just like, just like in a fight, you know? In a, in a fight, um, I'm not thinking about what I'm doing, it's just reaction. So it's ... a lot of times, I have to go back and watch the fight to remember exactly what I did during the fight. And his mom rolls up, and I'm sitting here helping this dude up. I pat him on the back, and I was like, "Good job, man." (laughs) You know? That's what I said to him. "Good job." And he said, "Thanks." And, like, walked off-

Joe Rogan 16:40 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 16:40 ... and he's, like, wiping his lip off, you know? He's bleeding. His mom's looking at me. She drives off, but still. I'm like, "Why did I-"

Joe Rogan 16:47 Why did you say, "Good job"?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 16:47 I, I help him up. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:48 (laughs) "Good job, dude." He said, "Good job."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 16:50 Oh, my gosh.

Joe Rogan 16:51 "Good job taking punches to the face."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 16:53 Yeah, to the face. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:55 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 16:55 And you know this is getting around school.

Joe Rogan 16:57 Of course.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 16:57 This middle school just beat you up, middle schooler.

Joe Rogan 16:59 Right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:00 So yeah, man. I can't ... I don't know.

Joe Rogan 17:02 When did you start karate?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:03 Three years old.

Joe Rogan 17:04 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:05 Mandatory.

Joe Rogan 17:06 Mandatory.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:07 Mandatory.

Joe Rogan 17:08 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:09 My ... there was five of us. I've got two brothers and two sisters. And we started in martial arts at three. My dad started early '70s, uh, because of ... it's weird ... Elvis Presley. It's wild.

Joe Rogan 17:21 No shit?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:22 L- he was a huge Elvis fan.

Joe Rogan 17:24 Wow. That's crazy. 'Cause those videos-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:27 We've made fun of those videos of Elvis all pilled up doing karate.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:31 (laughs) Yeah. Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 17:32 Oh, my God. They are some of the wildest videos-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:34 Right?

Joe Rogan 17:34 ... 'cause he, he's so clearly high out of his mind.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:37 Like he's ba- ... like completely disassociated.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:40 And he's like, "Oh yeah, man, want to do something."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:41 "Hey, man."

Joe Rogan 17:42 Grab your neck.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:42 "Come here, man."

Joe Rogan 17:43 Hiya.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:45 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:45 You ever see that movie Walk Hard?

Joe Rogan 17:46 No.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:47 You haven't seen Walk Hard?

Joe Rogan 17:48 No.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:49 It's like a, like a-

Joe Rogan 17:49 Look at him. Look at him. He's ... That's when they, they put the, the fist to his neck and he pushes forward, the guys fall down.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:55 What?

Joe Rogan 17:55 You never seen this?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 17:56 Oh, I've never seen this. This is actual video?

Joe Rogan 17:58 Oh, you need to watch these videos. Please pull up ... I, I, on multiple occasions on this podcast have watched-... and, and made fun of Elvis on pills, doing karate.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:08 (laughs)

Narrator 18:08 See, it's a 50-minute video, so you should watch it.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:10 Oh, okay. W- W- Well, I can watch it.

Joe Rogan 18:11 Can we just see...

Narrator 18:12 There's a lot- No, no, I mean, you got a lot to do. I just-

Joe Rogan 18:13 Well, we could just keep it on for the entire 50 minutes and talk.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:16 Where... This is on YouTube.

Narrator 18:17 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:18 Stop it.

Narrator 18:18 Just so you know. There's, like, a lot for you to watch.

Joe Rogan 18:19 Elvis Presley Gladiators Project, 1974. Hey.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:22 It's not hurting him 'cause he's high.

Joe Rogan 18:24 Meanwhile, he's got a, like a, a regular shirt on underneath.

Narrator 18:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:27 Look. Look at this collared shirt underneath his gi.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:29 Hey, you remember the, uh, the-

Joe Rogan 18:30 Look at how high he is! (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:32 Look how high he is.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:32 You remember the, the Stars and Stripes gi?

Joe Rogan 18:34 Yes, I do.

Narrator 18:35 Yes.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:35 He inv- he invented that.

Joe Rogan 18:36 Really?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:37 Elvis Presley invented that.

Joe Rogan 18:38 Oh, no shit.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:38 The stars and stripes actual, like, gi.

Joe Rogan 18:41 Look at these guys.

Narrator 18:42 I know. Man.

Joe Rogan 18:43 So, he was, he was an Ed Parker student, right?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:45 Yes. Yep. Ed Parker.

Joe Rogan 18:47 Yeah, so-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:47 That's kin, kin po.

Joe Rogan 18:47 But this is c- this is so funny, man.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:50 What?

Joe Rogan 18:50 With the fucking sh- he's got a regular shoe.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:53 What is going on right now? Elvis Presley said he would pull out your neck.

Joe Rogan 18:56 He's talking about pulling out your neck. Look how high he is.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 18:58 What in the...

Joe Rogan 19:02 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:02 Look at this.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:03 You can see the passion he loved training with.

Joe Rogan 19:07 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:08 (laughs)

Narrator 19:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:08 The guy's on his knees. He says, "I can't believe Elvis is rubbing my neck."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:11 Wow. Yeah, no.

Joe Rogan 19:11 Look at the dude. The dude is gonna go down.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:14 I see it. Look at him, he's, like, blinking his eyes.

Joe Rogan 19:16 Oh, he's out of his fucking mind.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:17 Wow.

Joe Rogan 19:18 He's probably on all... W- I mean, I don't know what kind of pills he's on back then.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:22 But I've never seen this before in my life.

Joe Rogan 19:24 Oh, my God, I've seen it 100 times.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:26 W- and he was one of those s-

Joe Rogan 19:27 Look at that.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:28 Is that, is that Super... No, that's not. That's Super Bill Wallace.

Joe Rogan 19:30 No, that's Bill Wallace. Yeah, it's Bill Wallace. Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:32 In the stars and stripes gi.

Joe Rogan 19:33 Yeah. Bill Wallace is an interesting character, too-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:36 Oh.

Joe Rogan 19:36 ... because he shows what's possible with just one leg.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:39 Dude.

Joe Rogan 19:40 No, that's not Chuck Norris.

Narrator 19:41 No.

Joe Rogan 19:41 But he shows what's possible with... 'Cause he had a fucked up knee. His right knee was fucked up, and he couldn't really throw kicks with it. So, everything he did was with his left leg.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:49 Look how he lifts his leg up like that.

Joe Rogan 19:51 Oh, my God, like it was nothing.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:52 Easy. I can't do that.

Joe Rogan 19:53 Well, he, he had incredible dexterity with that left leg, because he only kicked with that leg.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 19:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:59 So his hook kicks were off the chart. Like, a lot of people would dismiss hook kicks. Even in Taekwondo, they would dismiss hook kicks. And I was a big-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:06 I love that.

Joe Rogan 20:06 ... Bill Wallace fan. I would watch him fight.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:08 Love him.

Joe Rogan 20:08 I was like, "I'm telling you, man, that fucking guy throws..." I- I think it's one of those things where you just have to learn how to do it-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:13 ... and then you get the dexterity, and then eventually, it becomes just like throwing a round kick or a sidekick or anything else.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:19 That's what's so special about developing that front leg.

Joe Rogan 20:22 Yes.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:22 I- you don't need a lot of power to knock somebody out with it, or to do what you needed to do, to do some damage, right?

Joe Rogan 20:27 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:27 So, that's why I love doing the front leg stuff.

Joe Rogan 20:30 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:30 But that is w- that is crazy. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:32 Front leg round kicks seem like they don't have anything to them.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:35 Nothing.

Joe Rogan 20:36 But the first time I ever knocked a guy out, it was a front leg roundhouse kick.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:39 And I bet you it wasn't even as hard as you could.

Joe Rogan 20:41 It was, it was weird. It felt like I barely hit him-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:44 ... it just, and he just shut off.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:45 Just right.

Joe Rogan 20:45 It's just, it's fast.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:47 And, uh, one of the things that I love that you do, it's v- th- and we were taught to do that too, is you, you sneak things around the shoulders.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:52 Over the shoulders.

Joe Rogan 20:53 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:54 Over the shoulders.

Joe Rogan 20:54 And so you don't see it coming until it's right here. "Oh, shit!" Bang.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:57 And then it's too late.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:57 Was it the f- the first fight?

Joe Rogan 20:59 Yes.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 20:59 The very f- the very first fight?

Joe Rogan 21:01 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 21:01 And a lot of times, I, I will fight with my hands down, and so I like to lure people in with my face.

Joe Rogan 21:09 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 21:10 You know? I can hit you from there. But r- they don't realize that, you know, everybody has a, a security, their own security forcefield, I would say, around them. And when you step... If y- if I just plod in to that little security boundary you have, you get defensive. You start bringing your hands up, you're more aware. But if you stay to the outside of that, you know, they start to get more relaxed.

Joe Rogan 21:32 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 21:32 Those hands start to drop just a little bit. Even if it's just a little bit, that's-

Joe Rogan 21:35 'Cause you can't be tense all the time.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 21:37 Right. And that's when I got you.

Joe Rogan 21:40 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 21:40 You know? 'Cause I can close that gap faster than you can.

Joe Rogan 21:43 Right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 21:43 Right? I can close that gap, and people aren't used to that. People think... It was funny because once that karate style started to get out there, started becoming more popular, especially in the full contact sports 'cause you've seen Michael Paige-Venom and-

Joe Rogan 21:54 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 21:55 ... you start seeing guys with those tendencies. Like, you, when... You didn't see him, is- at his last fight 'cause he was doing more boxing, um, but Conor McGregor when he fought Jose Aldo.

Joe Rogan 22:06 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 22:06 Just in those first few minutes of that fight, you- he was moving like a karate guy.

Joe Rogan 22:10 Yep.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 22:10 Sideways stance, in and out movement.

Joe Rogan 22:12 Threw a sidekick. Yep.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 22:13 Drew out his, his left hand and countered him.

Joe Rogan 22:15 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 22:15 It was beautiful. But the- it takes... It's nothing that you can do and learn right off the bat. You know what I'm saying? Like, I can't-

Joe Rogan 22:24 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 22:24 ... if I w- if I, if I s- was doing MMA, and then I go, "All right, I wanna try and, you know, do that distance management or get that karate style," you can't just go into any karate s- karate studio and learn that. It takes a lot of time.

Joe Rogan 22:36 A lot of time.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 22:37 A lot of time.

Joe Rogan 22:38 I talked about, uh, Taekwondo kicks to someone once. We- we- we were talking about this, about them, implementing them in MMA, and I was like, "You kinda can, but really, you should start with that."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 22:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:50 Like, if you wanna learn it, you're gonna have to learn it when you're a kid.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 22:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:53 And then, then you develop that crazy Bill Wallace-type dexterity. And then once you do that, then learn takedown defense, then learn a little bit of wrestling-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 23:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:02 ... then learn how to... Uh, all the other shit. It's, it's so hard when you're... If you start right with MMA, you know, say if you're a 15-year-old kid and you just go to an MMA academy, there is no way you're gonna kick like a guy who's been kicking his whole life.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 23:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:16 You, you need to learn how to do it, like, almost first.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 23:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:20 It's... I think, like, there's a lot of arguments about what you should learn first. But I think there's a real good argument for young kids to learn either karate or some kicking-based style real young.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 23:31 I agree.

Joe Rogan 23:32 Because when they spar, they don't really hurt each other.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 23:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:34 And then they get used to doing it, so you get used to sparring. Like, I love watching little kids spar-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 23:38 Man, you n-

Joe Rogan 23:39 ... 'cause they can't hit each oth- they hit each other, but they don't hurt each other.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 23:41 We, we do full-on MMA sparring-

Joe Rogan 23:43 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 23:44 ... here at our schools. Yeah. Kicking, punching, you know, obviously in, in the, the, when they're in the beginning, when they first get their, their sparring gear, you're doing more sparring drills than anything, learning how to bo- uh, block. But they, you know, they gotta, you gotta take them through this conditioning process. A lot of schools out there don't even allow contact.

Joe Rogan 24:01 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:01 I think it's crap.

Joe Rogan 24:02 But it's also... There's a thing with w- the style that you do, that you almost...You're not gonna do it that way if you could do everything else from the beginning. You're gonna where, you get hit a couple of times, you're gonna try to take somebody down. You know, you're gonna try to do something different. Like, even, like, your s- your style originally, you didn't really leg kick.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:22 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 24:23 Like, when did you start leg kicking?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:25 I did-

Joe Rogan 24:25 Pull this thing up to, like, keep it, like, close to your face.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:27 Sorry about that.

Joe Rogan 24:28 There you go. No worries.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:29 Um-

Joe Rogan 24:29 When did you start leg kicking?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:30 I started, I had... My last fight, my last kickboxing fight before I wanted to go MMA, it was a leg kick fight. It was a Muay Thai fight.

Joe Rogan 24:38 So that was your first one?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:39 My very first one.

Joe Rogan 24:40 So you had, like, 56 above the waist, or below the... Above the waist?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:44 Above the waist.

Joe Rogan 24:45 And then one Muay Thai style?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:46 Which, it can kind of go both ways. I figured, like, now that I go back to above the waist, it's so hard.

Joe Rogan 24:52 Right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:52 It's so much harder.

Joe Rogan 24:53 Right, 'cause you can't kick the legs.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:54 (laughs) You can't, you... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:56 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 24:56 Where you're not getting kicked, but then you only have this small area that you have to find an, you know, a spot to kick, or find an opening, when you can create that by just kicking somebody in the leg.

Joe Rogan 25:05 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 25:06 And it was so difficult. Um, but that was my first experience with full contact, like, to the legs. Like, uh, our Kenpo style, um, we go at it, man. It's... My dad's just really old school, and, uh, I remember in the, in the earlier days, if you didn't have the natural ability to do the martial arts, he ran you off.

Joe Rogan 25:24 Really?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 25:24 Oh, yeah. It was that... Early '80s, he was very hardcore.

Joe Rogan 25:28 He didn't let you learn?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 25:29 Um, uh, he just... I don't think... He wanted, he wanted... Uh, the easier for him to teach you something, those are the kind of people he wanted around. He didn't want to spend a whole lot of time-

Joe Rogan 25:40 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 25:40 ... trying to, trying to... And this is what I got.

Joe Rogan 25:43 Right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 25:43 He may have something different, but this is kind of, you know, living in the dojo is what I kind of come up with, you know?

Joe Rogan 25:47 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 25:48 And people didn't last long. He was drill... So he grew up in a military school, pretty much. His dad was pretty rough. Put him in military school. His dad owned bars and brothels, man, in Charleston, South Carolina.

Joe Rogan 26:00 Oh, wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 26:01 And, uh, high school, put him in military school, that's when he fell in love with the martial arts. And then when he, when he was 18, he moved his... He moved, moved out.

Joe Rogan 26:09 It's so crazy that Elvis is what inspired him.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 26:12 Elvis.

Joe Rogan 26:12 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 26:12 He loved his, he loved his, uh, Western movies. And he did like-

Joe Rogan 26:16 Really?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 26:16 Yeah, he loved them, man. His mom was a huge Elvis fan. He says, "You know, I can't sing like the guy. Can't dance like the guy. I'm gonna try this karate thing."

Joe Rogan 26:23 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 26:24 So, he had his first fight at, uh... Oh, it was in, it was in, uh, Charlotte. Um, I forgot which arena it was. But in 1977, I think it was. 1977, he had his first kickboxing fight.

Joe Rogan 26:39 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 26:40 And then he fought, uh, went over in France, he fought for the, for the USA team. He fought in Greenville, South Carolina, The Badass Man in Greenville is what it was called. It was no-holds bar.

Joe Rogan 26:50 Really?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 26:50 Yeah, with boxing gloves on. You can take him down, no weight class.

Joe Rogan 26:53 Submissions?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 26:54 Um, yeah, if... I mean, if you knew them-

Joe Rogan 26:57 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 26:57 ... back in those day. I don't think anybody knew submissions-

Joe Rogan 26:59 But boxing gloves?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 27:00 Boxing gloves. We got a... I got a pic-

Joe Rogan 27:01 How many, how heavy were the gloves?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 27:02 I don't know. They're probably-

Joe Rogan 27:03 Eight ounces?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 27:05 Eight, 12, eight ou- eight ounces.

Joe Rogan 27:07 Hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 27:07 But, I mean, this is how crazy it was. You had a guy, you know, um... You had a Black guy come out into the ring with a Confederate flag, you know?

Joe Rogan 27:15 What? (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 27:16 It was wild. He fought... He had to fight that guy. He had to fight, uh, the guy who was 300 pounds. We got a picture of him literally with, uh, his opponent on the ground, and my dad's up in the air getting ready to stomp this dude's head.

Joe Rogan 27:27 (sighs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 27:27 I'm like, "You didn't realize that you could kill the guy?" He was like, "Nah, I, I had to pay rent, man. (laughs) I had to win this thing."

Joe Rogan 27:33 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 27:33 "I had to pay rent." Yeah. He fought in that thing twice before they wouldn't let him, they wouldn't let him compete anymore.

Joe Rogan 27:38 Really?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 27:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:39 They kicked him out?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 27:40 Yeah. And then it changed-

Joe Rogan 27:42 What did they say, "You're too good?"

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 27:43 I, I don't think they said you were too good.

Joe Rogan 27:45 "You gotta stop stomping people." (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 27:46 Yeah, maybe. (laughs) I don't know. I don't know. But then I think, uh, the promotion changed hands and it became, uh, the Toughman Contest.

Joe Rogan 27:55 There was an event in Hawaii back in the '70s. I believe that was one of the very first, uh, no-holds barred events that Benny Urquidez competed in.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 28:06 Benny Urquidez, yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:07 He was a beast.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 28:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:09 Dude. Benny The Jet was a-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 28:09 Benny The-

Joe Rogan 28:10 ... bad man.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 28:11 Dude, I s- I heard the craziest story about him. And this was when I was in the... Competing in the WAKO World Championships, which was like our kickboxing Olympics, right? It's held in a different country every two years. We got some kids that point fighting, they're switching over to MMA. You think that I've got a lead leg, man, and it can servus- co- cover some, some distance. These kids, 17 years old, or 18 years old, his brother's 21. Blake and, um... Blake Spence, Trent Spence, these kids are fast, boy. They kick me in the face on a reg'.

Joe Rogan 28:42 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 28:43 You know, on the regular. But they're, they've competed all over the world since they were kids, you know? That's what... The w- they pa- they- they're getting ready to, for the WAKO World Championships, uh, supposed to be in Moscow or something this year. But, uh, got to hang out with, um, Bill Superfoot Wallace, and he told me this crazy story about Benny The Jet. He was asked to fight a guy, the guy's name was Muay Thai-

Joe Rogan 29:10 (gasps) His name was Muay Thai?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 29:12 That was the style. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:13 Oh.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 29:13 He thought, he thought...

Joe Rogan 29:14 He thought it was the guy's name?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 29:15 He was name... Yeah, that was the guy's name.

Joe Rogan 29:16 Right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 29:17 It was in Thailand. And I don't know how true this story is, maybe he was just blowing smoke, but Benny The Jet was undefeated and he was fighting this guy named Muay Thai. And he goes out the first round, it was him, Chuck Norris was there, I think Joe Lewis was there. You know, big heavyweight Joe Lewis?

Joe Rogan 29:37 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 29:38 Um, and he was losing the fight. The guy kept kicking him in the legs, kicking him in the legs. So what these three guys did, and this is what's so freaking cool, they started a fight in the crowd that went... Just got nuts, that they had to cancel the fight. They were throwing chairs, like, in the ring-

Joe Rogan 29:55 They did that to-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 29:56 Just to-

Joe Rogan 29:56 ... try to stop Benny from losing?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 29:57 From losing. That's what I heard.

Joe Rogan 29:59 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 29:59 That's what I heard. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:02 I think I've seen a video of something like that. I definitely have seen videos of Benny fighting, like, leg kick style.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:10 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:10 I think after this fight, he ended up-

Joe Rogan 30:12 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:12 ... doing more and more Thai stuff.

Joe Rogan 30:14 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:14 But he would wear- he would still wear the pants, the karate pants.

Joe Rogan 30:16 Well, I'm sure you've seen the Rick Rufus fight where Rick Rufus fought that champion from Thailand.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:20 Yep.

Joe Rogan 30:21 And he hurt him in the first round with punches. But then the guy, he just kept chopping at his legs, chopping at his legs, and eventually they literally had to carry him out of there.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:29 He couldn't walk.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:30 Uh-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:30 There's something else about those Thai guys, man.

Joe Rogan 30:32 Well, and also back then, nobody understood the effectiveness of leg kicks.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:36 And Rick Rufus was a bad motherfucker back then.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:38 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah. Well-

Joe Rogan 30:39 Woo! I mean, he was so good.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:40 Oh, dude.

Joe Rogan 30:40 And- and he had the guy really hurt. He dropped him in the first round, had him in real trouble, but the dude got up. See if you can- it- they call it, it's on YouTube, The Fight That Changed Kickboxing Forever. That's the- the video of it.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:52 It was, like, the American kickboxer-

Joe Rogan 30:54 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:54 ... versus the Thai-

Joe Rogan 30:55 And-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 30:55 ... or the Thai style.

Joe Rogan 30:56 People just did not understand the effectiveness. They didn't understand how vulnerable the legs are.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:02 When you get a guy who's a Thai who really knows how to slam those shins, 'cause back then all the guys were kicking with their insteps.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:09 Yep.

Joe Rogan 31:09 They were either hitting you with the heel or the instep.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:12 They're- they're hitting you with hook kicks and wheel kicks and sidekicks, or they're hitting you with roundhouse kicks with the instep. But the Thais had figured out a long time ago that the shin-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:19 A thousand years ago.

Joe Rogan 31:20 It's quite- how-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:21 Thousands.

Joe Rogan 31:22 Isn't it crazy that they-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:23 Oh, my gosh. That's-

Joe Rogan 31:24 Here it is. So here's the fight. And so this dude had a complete traditional-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:29 Wow.

Joe Rogan 31:29 Look, he's- he- low calf kick.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:30 Wow.

Joe Rogan 31:31 Way back in the days.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:32 And he's- and he's still wearing the karate boots.

Joe Rogan 31:33 Oh, yeah, man.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:33 Like, what the... Oh.

Joe Rogan 31:34 He had the karate boots and that dude is barefoot. But Rick had him hurt.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:40 And he hit him with some wild shit because, you know, the guy never seen anybody that could throw the kind of techniques that Rick could throw.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:46 Look at the-

Joe Rogan 31:46 I mean, he would throw the-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:47 Look at the calves on that guy.

Joe Rogan 31:48 I know.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:49 Something about Thais, man.

Joe Rogan 31:50 Jacked.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:50 You watch those guys, their calves are just ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 31:52 Look at him and he's- he hit him again in the legs.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:54 Look at him just plodding down-

Joe Rogan 31:55 Just- and Rick-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:56 ... just chopping.

Joe Rogan 31:56 ... doesn't know what to do. He- he doesn't know how to check it.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 31:58 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 31:58 Look at that beautiful jump spinning back kick. And he dropped the dude with a punch, but he just keeps getting lit up with these kicks. And after a while, his legs just became used to-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:08 Oh, there it is.

Joe Rogan 32:09 There it is. So he-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:09 It was like a...

Joe Rogan 32:10 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:11 That was sick.

Joe Rogan 32:11 Yeah. Threw a kick and then the punch right behind it. He threw a left round kick, and then right behind it he lands a perfect punch. And he's got the guy really fucked up. Guy drops his mouthpiece, he's in real trouble. And Rick swarms on him, but the dude knows how to survive. Look, he drops him again.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:26 Oh, get up. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:26 Almost kicked him in the face when he was down too.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:28 Look at the stare down there. (laughs) Get up.

Joe Rogan 32:30 So Rick is, you know, he's out for blood, but this-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:32 ... dude probably been fighting since he was five.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:36 You know, they'll- they have Thai fights when they're really young.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:39 Yeah. I've seen them actually on dirt surfaces. Like, they just have-

Joe Rogan 32:42 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:42 ... like, people around them-

Joe Rogan 32:43 Yep.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:43 ... and then they're fighting on dirt.

Joe Rogan 32:45 But then these leg-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:46 Oh.

Joe Rogan 32:46 ... kicks started really taking their toll. And eventually Rick's legs are just chopped meat.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:52 Oh.

Joe Rogan 32:52 And this dude is just attacking the legs. Like, look at this.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:55 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 32:55 Like, right there, that was it. I mean, he's in fucking agony there.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 32:59 Oh, gosh.

Joe Rogan 32:59 He gets up and he just gets punished even more. And at this point, the dude's going across the front of the legs, he's going to the back of the legs-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 33:05 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 33:05 ... like, anything he can. And that's it. That was a wrap. He's just in agony.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 33:08 I'm wincing because I- I- I feel, I, you know, I feel for him.

Joe Rogan 33:12 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 33:12 Like, I- I've felt those kicks before, especially low calf.

Joe Rogan 33:15 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 33:15 I wonder if they're... Is that allowed in Muay Thai, kicking the calf?

Joe Rogan 33:19 It is allowed. It is allowed. Yeah, it is allowed. But the thing about low calf kick in Muay Thai, first of all, the guy in the f-... They don't have to worry about takedowns, right? So that front leg is very light.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 33:28 Yeah, keeping it up.

Joe Rogan 33:28 They're very light on the front leg and they turn on the outside. If you watch, there's a r-... The Jimmy Rivera, Pedro Muñoz fight is a good example of how you can check that low calf kick if you plan on checking it.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 33:41 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 33:41 And you look for it regularly 'cause Jimmy Rivera is so good at it and he hits it all the time. But in that fight, Pedro is a- is aware of it in advance and Muñoz checks it over and over and over again, but he keeps landing it on Jimmy and he eventually... Like, he won the battle of the low calf kick.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 33:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:59 But it's such a punishing kick.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 34:00 Oh, my goodness. I think it was the Vicente Luque. I took three of them.

Joe Rogan 34:04 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 34:05 And I don't know if it's- it has to do a lot with the- those three kicks or sometimes whenever I kick, I roll my hip over maybe a little too much and I start hitting with the outside of my calf.

Joe Rogan 34:18 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm, yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 34:19 You know? Instead of the shin.

Joe Rogan 34:21 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 34:21 So that might- that may be why sometimes I'm limping afterwards.

Joe Rogan 34:24 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 34:25 But those low calf kicks are no joke.

Joe Rogan 34:26 They're brutal.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 34:27 I hit Rory MacDonald with lead leg low calf kicks in that fight, and he was limping afterwards. He was like- he had to have somebody carry him, walk off with him.

Joe Rogan 34:33 And that's early on in the calf kick game.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 34:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:36 Right? Because really, Benson Henderson was the first guy I saw use it-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 34:40 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:40 ... really effectively and regularly. But then when you get into fights being stopped with low calf kicks, you're like, "Wow, this is crazy." Like guys literally can't walk.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 34:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:50 And then the Conor McGregor fight was like... I mean, the- the whole world got to see that 'cause even a casual MMA fan watched that fight and went, "That is crazy."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 34:58 I feel like 2019, 2020 was like the years of the low calf kick-

Joe Rogan 35:02 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:02 ... where it really started to become mainstream, right?

Joe Rogan 35:05 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:05 Because you don't have a lot of muscle there. It's bone on bone, you know?

Joe Rogan 35:10 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:10 And that- that group of muscle is such a- a function for you to move around.

Joe Rogan 35:15 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:15 It's just like, you know, you hit that one or f- you know, one or two times good spot. And you saw with Sugar, was it O'Malley?

Joe Rogan 35:21 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:22 Just shut him down.

Joe Rogan 35:22 Just shut him down.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:23 Was that dead foot?

Joe Rogan 35:23 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:23 Was that what they call that?

Joe Rogan 35:24 That happened also with, uh, Cejudo when he fought Mighty Mouse.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:27 (sighs)

Joe Rogan 35:27 Mighty Mouse kicked him, his leg went numb and he's- he's got that drop foot. But-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:32 Drop foot.

Joe Rogan 35:32 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:32 That's what they call it.

Joe Rogan 35:33 But Henry survived. He survived-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:35 ... and he made it through, but it happened to Michael Chandler in Bellator.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:38 I saw that one.

Joe Rogan 35:39 It's cra-... It just... Like, those nerves are so exposed there.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:42 You hit-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:42 He hit that one spot.

Joe Rogan 35:43 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:43 I thought he broke his ankle, but it was just the dead foot.

Joe Rogan 35:45 It's really like the button for the calf.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:48 It's like the- the version of on the button for your chin, that's just kind of the same thing for a calf.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:53 And I think that's the- the beauty of that karate style as well. You're starting to see more and more people doing it, but switching sides.

Joe Rogan 35:58 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 35:59 Sometimes switching sides can just do it for you-

Joe Rogan 36:02 Well, you-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 36:03 ... can prevent that.

Joe Rogan 36:03 ... you switch up quite a bit and you- you're much... It seems like, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're more comfortable right leg forward with a front leg.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 36:10 With my front leg, yes, I do- I do throw with my left, but my pos-... Yeah, I lo- I love using my right leg.

Joe Rogan 36:16 Your right hand.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 36:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:17 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 36:17 I'm right handed, yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:18 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 36:19 But, um, you know, I've, it's funny because I have, you know, l- little things here I like to do with my left leg, different kicks. Different kicks I do with my right leg.

Joe Rogan 36:28 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 36:29 And it's, uh... But sometimes preventing somebody from low calf kicking you. So, if you had your left foot in front, like when I fought Vicente, I come out, we're in a closed stance. I have my left foot, he had left foot. I can tell he was just trying to shut me down, and most everybody tries to do with my movement is just try and low calf kick me or-

Joe Rogan 36:44 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 36:44 ... take my legs out. And all it takes for me to switch sides, they throw that one hard low calf kick, maybe on the inside and I check it. A lot of times they think twice about doing it 'cause I-

Joe Rogan 36:53 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 36:53 ... I do a lot, I s- I spend a lot of time conditioning my shins, my feet. And that's just the old school-

Joe Rogan 36:58 What do you do?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 36:58 ... my dad. Um, I start off, and I actually have a tutorial on this on my, on my YouTube channel, and, uh, it was one of my most popular videos to be honest. I didn't think it was gonna be that popular, but everybody want- wants to know how to condition their shins. But start off, and this is something my dad has trained a lot of guys, kickboxers, world champions in. Um, he had... He told me, "You got to dense in the bone first." Most guys that are athletes, their bones are pretty dense. You know, you're jumping, you're running, you're getting those little microfractures and they heal back up, so the bone becomes strong, b- bone becomes dense. I don't recommend doing this if you're just coming off of the couch and you, you, you haven't played sports before because you could end up injuring yourself. But just, you know, you get a Muay Thai bag, and you know the lower part of the Muay Thai bag is harder than the, than the rest 'cause everything kind of, kind of sinks down. You spend a lot of time hitting that. Boom. Just over and over and over again. You're taking a lot of punishment to that bone, and the bone wants to, to, to beefen up. Then when you go from that, you go to, I have a maki. A makiwara. You've heard of-

Joe Rogan 38:00 Makiwara? Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:01 Yeah. So, it's in our school. My dad's on that thing every day. You see my dad's, my dad's hands, it's ridiculous. He used to punish us. He'd just slap the top of our head.

Joe Rogan 38:10 There you go.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:10 There you go. Um, there's the t- uh, you can go check that out, find that. But yeah, there's, that's the act- actual makiwara. But you see the tire?

Joe Rogan 38:19 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:20 And that's there to condition the skin, not just the bone.

Joe Rogan 38:23 Mm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:23 Because your skin's got to be, um-

Joe Rogan 38:27 Tough.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:27 ... conditioned and tough.

Joe Rogan 38:28 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:28 Because you don't know if you saw when Luke Rockhold, what was it, during the Yoel Romero fight, he had split the skin-

Joe Rogan 38:34 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:34 ... from checking a, or kicking Yoel Romero, and it got MRSA or something in it.

Joe Rogan 38:39 Yeah, he's-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:39 And it got bad.

Joe Rogan 38:39 He's still fucked up. He has to-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:40 Really? Still?

Joe Rogan 38:41 Did you see the fight that he had with Jan Blachowicz?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:43 Yes.

Joe Rogan 38:44 He wore-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:44 He had that thing wrapped up.

Joe Rogan 38:45 Yeah, he wore, like, a sleeve over his shin-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:47 ... because he's had multiple skin grafts.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:50 What?

Joe Rogan 38:50 Yeah. Oh, he's, his shin's been fucked-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 38:53 Golly.

Joe Rogan 38:54 ... from that fight. Dude, infections like MRSA, staph, that kind of shit, in a, on a cut, in an open wound, you have to take care of that.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 39:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:03 That is so dangerous. People die from that.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 39:05 That's wild. They had to pack, they probably had to pack it, you've seen that?

Joe Rogan 39:08 I'm sure. Yeah. From the pus?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 39:09 I can sit there and watch that on YouTube all day.

Joe Rogan 39:11 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 39:11 Pulling, pulling those stuff out.

Joe Rogan 39:12 So, pull the, put that video back up again so we can please?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 39:14 So, what I do is I will condition the skin so that, so that way those, those splits don't happen.

Joe Rogan 39:21 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 39:21 Right? And I've done this for years. Top of the foot, I'll go from the top of the foot, from my toes, all the way up to that knee knuckle on that top of the shin-

Joe Rogan 39:29 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 39:29 ... right below your knee. Um, and I'll do... I s- you start off, I, I tell people start off with doing 10, and you work your way up to doing 50, and then doing 100.

Joe Rogan 39:37 And do you just do it, do you do it like-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 39:39 And it's not hard. Yeah, it's not hard. And I try and do it three times a week.

Joe Rogan 39:45 Does it show what you're doing up there?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 39:46 I don't know if it does or not.

Joe Rogan 39:47 Yeah, they're right there, Jim.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 39:49 And it's just tapping. Boom.

Joe Rogan 39:50 So, that's how you do it.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 39:51 Yep, just sit there, pop. And I do both of them. And, you know, obviously the, the more your skin and shin becomes more conditioned, you know, l- you can-

Joe Rogan 40:01 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 40:01 ... sink it in there a little bit.

Joe Rogan 40:03 Now did you, when you went to train from, when you went from, uh, above the waist kickboxing to incorporating leg kicks, did you go to a Thai gym? Did you w- uh, no?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 40:13 No. Sure didn't.

Joe Rogan 40:14 You just, just jump right in?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 40:15 Jump right in.

Joe Rogan 40:16 Did you think, "I'm gonna kick him in the legs too," or did you say-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 40:18 Yes.

Joe Rogan 40:18 ... "I'm just gonna do what I do"?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 40:20 No, I, I, I knew that the, the legs were additional targets, so I re- really focused on that, really focused on trying... I had to, I did a lot of changes, man-

Joe Rogan 40:28 Yeah?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 40:28 ... from when I went from kickboxing to... And I learned that through training with GSP.

Joe Rogan 40:33 Get on it.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 40:33 I had fought on a card in Montreal, this was when I was in kickboxing, this was before I had torn every ligament in my left leg in the World Combat League when I fought Raymond Daniels. To where-

Joe Rogan 40:42 You tore every ligament?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 40:43 Every ligament in my left leg. It took-

Joe Rogan 40:45 What happened?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 40:46 First 30 seconds of the first round it was... Of course you were in that weird bowl.

Joe Rogan 40:50 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 40:50 Right? And it was, um, it wasn't canvas. And I believe it was the first 30 seconds in the first round, I had fought Raymond, and, uh, I guess they didn't clean up where somebody had fallen on their back at the fight before, there was some really, some damp spots. And I knew Raymond Daniels, he liked to spin, I don't forgot which side forward it was, but he likes to spin off of, I think it might be his left foot in front, so he kicks with his right leg. And I think he was kind of in between switching, and I decided to blitz him then, right? I was trying to catch him when he switched. And then I had ran in, for some reason, um, I had slipped a little bit as I was coming in. He grabs me by the neck and he pulls me to the side, so I step with my left foot, my leg went straight. Then he kind of pulls down and I just kind of fold into my leg and it just collapsed inward.

Joe Rogan 41:44 Oh.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 41:44 And that's all she wrote, man. It just, I could just feel it just collapse, everything just gave way. Brahdah, you get, I just felt every- everything just break, just prah. And I'm sitting on the ground rolling around. Here we go, watch this. Right there. Boom! Right, you, oh my goodness, dude.

Joe Rogan 41:59 Oh, my God.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:00 Oh my goodness. Ooh!

Joe Rogan 42:01 Oh, look at you.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:02 So-

Joe Rogan 42:02 See?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:02 ... that's where I slip there.

Joe Rogan 42:04 He's throwing the blitz.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:04 And he pulls, he pulls to the left and I step and that's when it collapsed in.

Joe Rogan 42:09 Oh my God.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:11 It just went... I j- I remember afterwards I tried to stand up, that's where I slipped. Boom, I pull in, he stepped, pulls down. What? It was almost like this, I guess. What?

Joe Rogan 42:21 Oh.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:21 Kind of, like, kind of pulls me in-... it was terrible. And then, um-

Joe Rogan 42:26 You have to get surgery?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:27 Yeah, multiple.

Joe Rogan 42:29 Multiple surgeries?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:29 Multiples, I did cadaver.

Joe Rogan 42:31 How many? How many surgeries?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:33 Well, there was only one original surgery where they went in, they took 40% of my meniscus out.

Joe Rogan 42:38 Oof.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:39 Uh, I did, um-

Joe Rogan 42:41 That's a lot.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:42 Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh-

Joe Rogan 42:45 Is that the same leg that Darren Till was, uh, sidekicking you on?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:49 Yeah, that's, I tore my MCL during that fight, in the first or second round.

Joe Rogan 42:52 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:53 Yeah. No, I, I, I actually I showed it, the kind of, I kind of back up and shake it out a little bit, I was kind of pissed, but-

Joe Rogan 42:59 Hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 42:59 ... you know, it is what it is. And then, I feel like, like after that, I did cadaver tissue so they could beef up my ACL-

Joe Rogan 43:07 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 43:07 ... as much, they can make it as thick as they want. And then, um, the doctor-

Joe Rogan 43:11 So that's what they, they do with the, um, Achilles tendon? Is that what they use for you? From the cadaver?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 43:15 Um, I don't know, it was, I, um, it might have been Achilles or I know they used patella.

Joe Rogan 43:20 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 43:20 And they can, they can take as much as they want, 'cause I know if they, if they take your own, they can take a small portion-

Joe Rogan 43:26 Right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 43:26 ... but the healing time is, is elongated.

Joe Rogan 43:29 I did both. I did patella on my left leg and I did cadaver on my right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 43:33 So you tore both?

Joe Rogan 43:33 Yeah. The right they used, uh, a Achilles tendon from a cadaver, and it was great.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 43:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:39 That, that was, that one has never been a problem since. The left one was patella tendon graft, and it took a long time to heal.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 43:45 Wow.

Joe Rogan 43:45 It took like, it took a full year before I felt confident with it, and then even then, like, if I would, uh, do anything where I had to get on one knee-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 43:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:53 ... it would hurt, it would hurt pretty bad. Even two knees. Like even stretching, like-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 43:57 Still?

Joe Rogan 43:58 Yeah, you know, no, not anymore, now it's nothing. Now it feels like 100%, doesn't bother me at all.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:02 Wow.

Joe Rogan 44:03 But like if I'm, um, I'm, you know the one where you, uh, you get on your knees then you lean back?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:07 That went, shit, it took forever before I could do that one.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:10 It was just so tight?

Joe Rogan 44:11 Yeah, it's, it hurt, it hurts-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:11 Yeah, that's how mine was. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:12 ... so bad to be on your knees. Like, when your knees touch, 'cause they have to take a piece of your bone off your kneecap and a piece of bone out of your shin, and they pull it out with the, the piece of the patella, and they open you up like a fish and drill it in place.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:26 Have, have you seen those surgeries?

Joe Rogan 44:27 I watched it.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:27 Or knee r-

Joe Rogan 44:28 I watched my surgery.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:30 Wow.

Joe Rogan 44:30 'Cause I was hoping I was never gonna h- do surgery again, so I asked the doctor, I said, "Can I watch?" And, and he goes, "Well, I wanna put you under." And I go, "Well, can, is there a way where I could watch instead of you putting me under?" He goes, "Well, I could give you an epidural, but I don't recommend it."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:45 And he goes-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:45 So you did an epidural?

Joe Rogan 44:46 Yeah, he goes-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:47 What?

Joe Rogan 44:47 ... I don't, he goes, "I don't want you to freak out." I go, "I'm not gonna freak out." I go, "I wanna see it." So-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:51 That's awesome.

Joe Rogan 44:51 ... the doctor was crazy. He let me, he goes, "Okay."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:53 That's, that's hardcore.

Joe Rogan 44:54 "You're fucking crazy? I'm crazy too." Gave me knuckles. (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 44:57 (laughs) Let's go. Wow.

Joe Rogan 44:58 The doctor let me watch the surgery, yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:00 Next surgery, I'm watching it.

Joe Rogan 45:01 It was pretty weird.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:02 I don't know if you can even do it.

Joe Rogan 45:03 Yeah, it was pretty weird.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:05 But, you know, it, it, it took a, it took a while because f- five months in, that ligament dies, and then your body kind of regenerates it and it makes it grow.

Joe Rogan 45:13 Yeah, your body reperipherates it.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:15 And then the doctor told me-

Joe Rogan 45:17 Proliferate.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:17 ... "It's five months in, your knee's gonna feel great." Of course, me, before that, man, I felt like I could do anything.

Joe Rogan 45:22 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:22 You know, I'm sitting here dunking, I can do, I, I've, I've got it where I can, uh, my dad's 6'2", I can jump over my dad, you know, just doing crazy, tricking, martial arts tricking, and-

Joe Rogan 45:32 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:32 ... I do some of that when, if, if I knock anybody out in the octagon. But that was that, my first flip, that little corkscrew I did, I used to do that-

Joe Rogan 45:39 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:39 ... all the time. I don't do that anymore.

Joe Rogan 45:41 Just because it's not worth the risk?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:42 It's just not worth the risk. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:44 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:44 I mean-

Joe Rogan 45:44 It's crazy because it looks cool-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:46 ... but if you fuck y- Like, when Michael Chandler knocked out Dan Hooker and then did that back flip, I was like, "Bro, don't, stop doing that."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:54 Or even, what's his name he was doing, like, the body roll and he hurt his shoulder.

Joe Rogan 45:56 Yes, Johnny Walker.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:57 He fucked his shoulder up.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 45:59 He was out forever.

Joe Rogan 45:59 Had to get surgery.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 46:00 Haven't been the same since.

Joe Rogan 46:01 He has a giant scar on his shoulder from that.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 46:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:03 Yeah, no, he hasn't been the same since.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 46:05 Mm-mm. So it's like, you know, I didn't listen to him. Five months in, um, sparring and I end up, my knee, uh, it just kind of like moves over and back in. That's what happened. That's what it felt like.

Joe Rogan 46:18 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 46:18 Like, this is where my knee bends, it just went... And then I was like, "Messed it up. I, no I d- guaranteed messed it up."

Joe Rogan 46:25 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 46:25 And I tore it again. But I didn't, I had stretched it, but then I had tore more meniscus.

Joe Rogan 46:30 Oh, jeez.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 46:30 So they had to go back in, tighten everything up. They had, they re- they repaired my meniscus. I'm talking six weeks couldn't put any weight on that leg, right? It was straightened the whole time. It's crazy, I, I, a lifetime to get your leg to where it is.

Joe Rogan 46:44 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 46:45 Took six weeks for my thigh to be as big as my calf.

Joe Rogan 46:48 Yeah, that's crazy, isn't it? It just... just shrinks.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 46:50 That's what, that, I was out for three years.

Joe Rogan 46:52 Three years.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 46:53 Which was kind of a blessing, to be honest with you, because I was fighting every, all the time. And my dad's been there with me 24/7, seven days a week, training, and I wanted to quit. I didn't want to fight anymore.

Joe Rogan 47:08 Burnout.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 47:08 I was burnt, man. And I didn't know how to tell him. Didn't know how to tell him.

Joe Rogan 47:13 'Cause he's your dad and he's scary.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 47:15 He's my pops, man. And he's scary too.

Joe Rogan 47:18 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 47:18 Uh, and to be honest, you know, I, I, I didn't, and he's always told me that. He's always like, "Man, if you don't want to do this, let me know." But I can always see, you know, there's something in his eyes like he really, he wants me to do this.

Joe Rogan 47:27 Of course.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 47:28 And then, um, this happened. Right? So, in that time, those three years, I just, when the doctor told me I would never do it again, that's when it was like, for real for me. Like, that's when that flame just, it rose in my, in me that go, "I'm doing this freaking... Screw that, dude, I'm doing this again. What are you talking about?" You know, there's no way, he's, "I'll probably never fight again." And, uh, he's done all my surgeries. It's funny because, uh, I, I look at him like...

Joe Rogan 48:01 See what I mean?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:02 Remember?

Joe Rogan 48:02 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:03 Yeah. See what I mean?

Joe Rogan 48:03 We were just talking the other day about when I got my ACL reconstructed and then I, I had, uh, meniscus damage that had to get scoped out. They were like, "You got to stop doing martial arts." And I, I was in my 20s, I was like, "What are you talking about? This is my whole life."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:17 "This is my identity. I'm not stopping."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:20 I'm like, "Are you fixing this?"

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:21 "You're fixing it, right? Then we're going."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:23 There you go.

Joe Rogan 48:24 "I'm going back in. I don't know what you're saying. You're just talking nonsense."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:27 'Cause I was looking at him with his belly and like his-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:30 Yeah, come on, what do you...

Joe Rogan 48:30 ... pencil arms. I'm like, "Shut your fucking hole."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:33 Yep.

Joe Rogan 48:33 Like, I'm not gonna stop doing this.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:35 Well, it was one of the reasons why I ended up injuring it again. 'Cause my physical therapy that I was doing was for normal people-

Joe Rogan 48:42 Oh.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:42 ... who just walk to point A to point B. They're not-So my, my quad was over-developed, my hamstring was weak.

Joe Rogan 48:48 Mm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 48:49 And that was one of the causes of me injuring my knee so much. So that ... In that time, uh, before that injury, I fought in Montreal, back to where we were getting to. Uh, I was fighting a guy, very tough kickboxer out of Montreal, and lo and behold, Georges St-Pierre and Firas Zahabi was in my opponent's corner. And I end up knocking that dude out in the fifth round and then afterwards was, I think it was kind of, kind of wild. He comes up, GSP comes up and Firas, "Hey, man, we would love to bring you in for..." You know, and his, his student was kind of over there just like this, you know. He was like, uh, "We would love to bring you out for GSP's camps, you know-"

Joe Rogan 49:26 Wow.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 49:26 "... help him out with the striking." I'm like, "Are you kidding me? Heck yeah."

Joe Rogan 49:29 That's incredible. What year was this?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 49:31 Oh, man. 2000, um, shoot, '07, '08, '06, '07, '08.

Joe Rogan 49:40 So this is GSP at the top of the-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 49:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:42 ... fucking food chain.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 49:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:44 Right? This was probably around, like, the Nick Diaz fight and-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 49:47 It was probably before that.

Joe Rogan 49:48 ... BJ Penn. Really?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 49:49 'Cause I helped him for, with, uh, Jon Fitch, Thiago Alves-

Joe Rogan 49:54 Ah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 49:54 ... Matt Serra, um... Shoot, I know there was more. But, um, was up there and I ... That's when I knew, I was like, I, I kept getting taken down. Every time I blitz this dude, just changed his level, run right into a level, a double leg, ended up on my head.

Joe Rogan 50:09 Mm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 50:10 So I was, "I gotta make some changes, man. I gotta, I gotta lower my stance. I gotta ... I can't blitz straight in, I gotta angle off-"

Joe Rogan 50:16 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 50:17 "... 'cause I'm running into these things." And that's when ... He was my inspiration to switch from kickboxing to MMA.

Joe Rogan 50:23 Really?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 50:23 He was my inspiration. Yeah, man. I mean, he was ... We became friends, man. And I was up there helping him out and, well, he was helping me out more than I was helping him out, you know.

Joe Rogan 50:33 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 50:33 That's what it felt like to me. I was just in awe that I was up there training with this guy.

Joe Rogan 50:38 He's so open-minded, too.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 50:39 He's awesome.

Joe Rogan 50:40 The fact that they did that, that you just knocked out their guy and they're like, "Hey man, can we train?"

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 50:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:45 That's so smart. It's so open-minded.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 50:48 And I think it was the style, too. Like, they know there was, like, something different about that and maybe-

Joe Rogan 50:52 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 50:52 ... I could, I don't know, if I could somehow figure that out, then these other strikers like Tiago Alves was ... I don't know. I don't know what they were thinking.

Joe Rogan 51:01 Well, you know, George started out with Shotokan as well, so because of that style, like, his ... That was his original style, that karate style, and he always attributes that to his ability to take people down. He said it's his karate blitz, like, the, the blitz-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 51:15 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:15 ... the ability to close that distance quickly is what allowed him to get really good at double legs.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 51:20 That's awesome. Like-

Joe Rogan 51:20 Makes sense, right?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 51:21 It does, 100%. I mean, especially the angles. I, I, you never see me throw it in, in ... You did in the earlier days. I mean, when I fought Nashawn Burrell, you know, I out-wrestled him, out-struck him, but I was using a lot of wrestling. Chris Clements, I was doing a lot of wrestling, I was taking him down, but I think it was after the Nashawn Burrell fight. I was just like, Joe Silva comes up and was like, "Hey, Steven." He's like, "Just remember, it wasn't your wrestling that got you here." And I'm like ... That's all he said. I was like-

Joe Rogan 51:48 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 51:48 ... "Got you." But, um, you know, it was the Matt Brown fight that I really, after that I really wanted to show him my wrestling, 'cause everybody thought I didn't have it. And then I, I don't think it was the fact that I didn't have it, I was just done 30 seconds into the first round. I was ... The weight cut and everything killed me. And-

Joe Rogan 52:07 What was it about that fight? 'Cause that was a weird fight for you.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 52:09 It was. It was different. Man, I had just come off of knocking this dude out in the first round, got the bonus, you know, and it was like ... The week I got back, they were like, "Hey, man, you want to, you want to fight this guy Matt Brown in a few months?" I'm like, "Yeah, let's make it happen." I was like, "Why does that name sound familiar?" And then I looked him up, I was like, "Dude, this dude's got some fights, man. He's, he's been in the game for a while." But you know what I'm-

Joe Rogan 52:31 Matt Brown is a-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 52:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:32 ... fucking-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 52:33 Savage.

Joe Rogan 52:34 ... savage.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 52:34 And, uh, he showed it. Man, it was just cr- ... I'll tell you in a second what ... We rode back in the ambulance together after the fight 'cause we beat each other up so bad. But I had hired a new strength and condi- conditioning coach and, you know, and I was doing a lot of heavy lifting. I only walked around about 215. Never got up above 200 pounds since then. Just muscled up. And I, and I, I had, you know, Nate Marquardt come down for my camp and I felt great, you know. And realizing that everything was going great, until I had to cut the weight. And-

Joe Rogan 53:06 You got up to 215?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 53:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:09 Oh my God.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 53:09 210, 215, I think my-

Joe Rogan 53:11 So-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 53:11 ... heaviest I was about 215.

Joe Rogan 53:12 So you're cutting 40 pounds.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 53:15 Yeah. Killed me.

Joe Rogan 53:15 40 pounds?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 53:16 Killed me. Um, after that weight cut-

Joe Rogan 53:19 How far out did you start the cut?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 53:21 Man, uh, I think a little too late. Um, trying to come down. I mean, I was eating chicken. I hate chicken. I, to this day, I don't really like chicken since then.

Joe Rogan 53:31 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 53:32 But, um, I still felt explosive. I guess, you know, if you are naturally explosive, you're gonna keep some of that?

Joe Rogan 53:38 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 53:38 Even if you gain some muscle. Um, but, uh, I had just cut weight. I started cu- ... I think I, I don't remember when I started it, but I remember almost passing out a few times, you know, getting down to that weight. Um, and-

Joe Rogan 53:55 Did you check your weight before you got back in the octagon? Like, when you fully rehydrated-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 53:59 No.

Joe Rogan 53:59 ... how heavy did you get?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:00 I didn't.

Joe Rogan 54:00 You didn't?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:00 I didn't check it. I, I was up there, for sure, but still, it was like ... Of course, that whole weight cutting process was still new to me and I know for a fact we didn't rehydrate (laughs) like ... My first fight, first fight ever, we went to a LongHorn Steakhouse.

Joe Rogan 54:16 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:16 I had about a gallon of sweet tea.

Joe Rogan 54:19 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:19 With like three baked potatoes, cheese fries, and I n- ... Even though I knocked the guy out in the second round, I almost vomited everywhere. In the-

Joe Rogan 54:27 'Cause you had so much food in you?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:27 Oh my gosh.

Joe Rogan 54:28 That's hilarious.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:29 But ju- just, just drinking sweet tea (laughs) and not even-

Joe Rogan 54:31 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:31 ... drinking water. You know what I'm saying? So-

Joe Rogan 54:35 Well, a little bit of glucose is probably good for your muscles.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:37 Yeah, I think so. But, but no water. Like I had zero water.

Joe Rogan 54:40 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:41 It was, it was wild, man. I don't know what we were thinking.

Joe Rogan 54:43 That's crazy.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:44 But it wasn't-

Joe Rogan 54:44 You just drank free- sweet tea-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:46 ... and no water?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:46 Sweet tea. That's like-

Joe Rogan 54:47 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:47 ... the nectar of the gods in South Carolina. Sweet tea, man. That's one thing I k- ... I have a hard time not drinking during fight camps.

Joe Rogan 54:55 Really?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:55 Oh, yeah.Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:56 Wow, that's gotta be-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 54:57 Do you mean, what, I keep a weight now to where I pretty much eat what I want up until about a week before I go-

Joe Rogan 55:01 What do you stay at now?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 55:02 At my heaviest, 195.

Joe Rogan 55:04 Oh, okay. That's-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 55:05 195.

Joe Rogan 55:06 That's a, that's a big difference, that 20-pound difference is...

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 55:08 And that's trying. That's just-

Joe Rogan 55:10 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 55:10 ... trying to, trying to do it, you know.

Joe Rogan 55:12 Is it because you don't lift weights as much anymore, or...

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 55:15 I think the way that we do it. The, I have a, sh- after the Tyron fight, good reason, because the guy was strong as an ox. I had hired a, a... After that experience with Matt Brown, you know, um, I had, uh, stopped lifting weights. Like it just kinda, not gonna do it anymore. Just gonna stick with just, you know, bag work and trying to throw bodies around, you know.

Joe Rogan 55:40 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 55:40 That'd just be my, my... And it, it worked for a while, until Tyron. And I just felt how powerful that dude was. I mean, he was just, he was a different animal when I s- th- then.

Joe Rogan 55:53 He was very smart in how he fought you too. I've always said that if you want to look at a good way to fight Wonderboy, look at what Tyron did, because he didn't care if people were booing.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:01 He didn't care if people thought it was boring. He really was careful running into the buzzsaw.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:06 Really-

Joe Rogan 56:07 Real careful, staying on the outside. Not a lot of activity.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:10 But then when he did have activity, it was like super dangerous, explosive movements.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:14 Oh my goodness. And he was, he was quick. Like, but, but even sin- since then, he kind of fought the same. I don't know if he just felt like that was the ultimate way of doing it, because he, like a- after that, he just fought the same way. He just kept backing up, backing up.

Joe Rogan 56:26 I think Tyron-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:26 What do you think?

Joe Rogan 56:27 I don't know. You know, I think Tyron... I think there's a certain number of years a guy can compete at the top of his range, you know, and everybody's different.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:37 Some guys like Randy Couture k- kept going-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:39 (laughs) Yeah, he just kept-

Joe Rogan 56:40 like deep into his 40s was l- elite.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:42 And I think that was, uh, like, the, the style that he was fighting too.

Joe Rogan 56:46 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:47 Like, that Greco-Roman wrestling that he had, that experience, he can just tie dudes up-

Joe Rogan 56:51 Yup.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:51 ... and he was so good at it, that he didn't take a whole lot of damage maybe.

Joe Rogan 56:54 Maybe.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:54 And he was just able to do that.

Joe Rogan 56:56 I don't know what it is. It's like everybody's got their own amount-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 56:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:59 Like, you know, like some guys are Toyotas-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:01 ... and they can get 200,000 miles on them, and some guys are Jaguars, and 50,000 miles in, they're junk.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:07 You know, it's... Not that Jaguars are junk. Sorry Jaguars.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:10 Bad example. Whatever.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:11 You know what I'm saying. Like some, some cars are just Range Rover. How about that? They're just not-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:15 There you go.

Joe Rogan 57:15 They're not designed the, as durable-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:18 As... They don't, they don't last as long. And some guys can just for whatever reason... Look, and Bernard Hopkins fought at a world-class level until he was 50 years old. And a world-class level, like b- beat-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:30 ... world champions up until in his late 40s.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:34 I'm trying to be on-

Joe Rogan 57:35 Crazy.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:35 ... that level.

Joe Rogan 57:35 Crazy.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:36 I'm trying to be on that. That's ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 57:37 Well, that guy was super, super disciplined, ate super clean, never got out of shape.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:42 And you know, just, and he fought so defensively responsible.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:46 Like, you know-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:47 Very smart fighter.

Joe Rogan 57:48 Oh yeah. Just-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:49 His fight IQ is just really good.

Joe Rogan 57:50 Never got in crazy wars, you know? Like, as much as I love Marvin Hagler-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 57:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:56 ... I'm a giant Marvin Hagler fan, like to the day I die. When Marvin Hagler fought Tommy Hearns, he threw everything out the window-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 58:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:03 ... and is like, "I'm gonna fucking kill this guy."

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 58:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:06 "I don't give a shit." And he just waded into the f- the fire. And Tommy was blasting him with big shots, even had him hurt in the first round. You would never see Bernard Hopkins fight like that ever.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 58:16 No.

Joe Rogan 58:16 Ever. He would never be defensively irresponsible. He always fought like super technically and clever.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 58:23 That's why I think Izzy Adesanya is so, is, is the way he is. He's very... When you walk out there and you see a guy, you know, getting ready to do battle with somebody, and you, and you see d- two different types of guys. You see the guy that's very jittery and very just like, just on edge all the time and-

Joe Rogan 58:43 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 58:43 ... and you see somebody like Izzy or even Conor, just, there's, there's a calmness.

Joe Rogan 58:46 Yup.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 58:46 There's an eerie calmness about him.

Joe Rogan 58:48 Yup.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 58:48 That's a dangerous guy.

Joe Rogan 58:49 Especially now-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 58:50 He's a dangerous guy.

Joe Rogan 58:50 ... 'cause Izzy's so accustomed to being successful-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 58:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:53 ... at the highest levels.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 58:55 I've had so many people, "Go up and fight him." I'm like, "No." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:59 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 58:59 "No. No." They, I mean, Chris Weidman throws me around like a ragdoll. You know, i- it's funny because you got 170, you got 185, and, uh, and 185 doesn't seem that big, but these dudes-

Joe Rogan 59:14 It's big.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 59:14 These dudes are massive.

Joe Rogan 59:15 It's a big difference.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 59:16 And even, and Izzy's, he's so long, and he's, he's a big dude too. I mean-

Joe Rogan 59:20 He is big.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 59:21 ... he's, he doesn't look it. He looks like a beanpole.

Joe Rogan 59:23 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 59:24 But he's, he's big. He's just, I don't know. It's just, it's a different, different weight throwing around at that level. It's ridiculous, man. I would love to have a sparring, you know, go up there and spar with him. I think that would be a fun experience. But when I, you know, I got Chris Weidman grasping at my wrists, I feel like a three-year-old.

Joe Rogan 59:41 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 59:42 Can't, can't get away.

Joe Rogan 59:43 There's something about that wrestler's strength-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 59:44 Golly.

Joe Rogan 59:45 ... it's so uncomfortable. (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 59:46 It is. But I, I, it's funny because I, I love it. I love being in that situation. I love being... And I had to learn to do that. I had to learn to be ac- and to love, to be, get accustomed to being... just having someone just grinding you all the time. Didn't sound right, but you know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:00:00 Yeah, I know what you're saying. (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:02 You know, you got Chris Weidman-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 ... just grinding me.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:04 Well, when you were... The thing is, like, you were so dominant as a striker, that's, it shows tremendous character to be able to kind of start from the ground floor. I mean, obviously every fight starts standing up, so you do have a big advantage there, but that advantage is, it's, it's diminished quite a bit by takedowns, by the threat of takedowns, by all these different aspects of MMA, and, and even fighting in a cage is so much different-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:28 Oh yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:28 ... than fighting in ropes or in fighting in the World Combat League, that sort of bowl-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:32 ... that bowl thing. Did you like that bowl thing?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:34 No.

Joe Rogan 1:00:35 Not at all?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:35 I mean, it looked cool. It looked cool. It looked like a blood sport.

Joe Rogan 1:00:38 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:38 You know? Uh-

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 They're using-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:41 I-

Joe Rogan 1:00:41 ... that for the Bas Rutten Karate League-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:43 Karate League, yeah but-

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 Too. What is it called? Karate Combat maybe?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:46 Uh, Karate Combat.

Joe Rogan 1:00:47 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:47 Karate Combat. It's got like a-

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 Similar.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:49 It's got... Very similar.

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:50 But they have walls so you're not falling off the stage.

Joe Rogan 1:00:52 Right. Right, right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:52 Then it was, it was... You were like on that fine line. When you got close to that thing, you could go off of it-

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:00:57 ... and you got like a three-foot drop.

Joe Rogan 1:00:59 I've been fighting forever to have fights take place with no cage. And t- I'm like, if you can have a football field and you could have all these dudes run around playing football, there's no fence.... there's no cage, and they're running full blast. These are giant super athletes.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:01:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:17 You're telling me you can't have a fight in the middle of a football arena?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:01:20 Man.

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 How come you can't have a... Like basketball, is another example. Basketball, you got all these players, these giant dudes, seven feet tall, they're running around. They're fine with this basketball floor. But we have to have everybody caged in?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:01:32 It is.

Joe Rogan 1:01:32 'Cause that cage is an artificial structure.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:01:34 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 Like, it, it stops you from moving that way, you get pressed up against it. You, you can get up quicker from it, you can utilize it to hold people in place. There's a lot of weirdness to a cage.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:01:45 I agree.

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 It also obstructs the view.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:01:47 It do- wow, I didn't really think about that, it does. And you're better off just kinda like, you know, watching it at home.

Joe Rogan 1:01:54 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:01:54 Can get a better view at home.

Joe Rogan 1:01:55 That's right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:01:55 And you got the commentating.

Joe Rogan 1:01:57 On the grass.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:01:58 Dude. How, how, how-

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 Just do it on grass.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:01:59 You got my mind rolling right now, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:02:01 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:01 You can have more than one. Just more than one fights going on at once-

Joe Rogan 1:02:05 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:05 ... kinda like gladiators, bro.

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 But that's like a gym where d- guys collide into each other-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:10 ... and someone gets a blown out knee.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:11 Oh, yes, true.

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 That's how Rashad Evans lost, uh, the fight with, uh, Jon Jones. When, uh, w- where, when Rashad Evans, rather, lost a fight with Shogun, he was sparring in the same ring as Diego Sanchez.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:23 (gasps)

Joe Rogan 1:02:24 And Diego Sanchez collided with him and fucked up his knee. So Rashad had to pull out of the fight with Shogun. Jon Jones steps in, takes the fight.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:31 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:02:31 Jon Jones becomes the young- youngest ever light heavyweight champ- youngest ever UFC champion.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:36 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 Yeah. Crazy.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:37 And look at him now. He looks massive.

Joe Rogan 1:02:39 Look at him now. He's so big.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:41 I feel like he is. I f- I just, I don't think it's a good move.

Joe Rogan 1:02:44 Can you get massive enough for Francis? That's the question.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:47 Ugh. Yeah. Or...

Joe Rogan 1:02:48 Do you want to?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:48 I mean, do you want to?

Joe Rogan 1:02:49 Right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:50 D- I don't care how much weight you put on to get up. This dude's been carrying that weight around his whole life.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 And it's natural.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:53 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 And he's explosive.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:53 And he's just, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 There's n- I mean, you got some dudes that just... Even I, I've sparred with guys smaller than me but they just have some kind of power about them. I fought a, a pro box- I was up there training with GSP and I, he was going over to the Howards brothers up in, in Montreal. And there was a guy, Adonis. Jon Jones steps in, takes the fight.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:53 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Jon Jones becomes the young- youngest ever light heavyweight champ- youngest ever UFC champion.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:53 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Yeah. Crazy.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:53 And look at him now. He looks massive.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Look at him now. He's so big.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:53 I feel like he is. I f- I just, I don't think it's a good move.

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Can you get massive enough for Francis? That's the question.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:53 Ugh. Yeah. Or...

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Do you want to?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:53 I mean, do you want to?

Joe Rogan 1:02:53 Right.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:53 D- I don't care how much weight you put on to get up. This dude's been carrying that weight around his whole life.

Joe Rogan 1:02:55 And it's natural.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:56 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:02:56 And he's explosive.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:02:57 And he's just, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:57 There's n- I mean, you got some dudes that just... Even I, I've sparred with guys smaller than me but they just have some kind of power about them. I fought a, a pro box- I was up there training with GSP and I, he was going over to the Howards brothers up in, in Montreal. And there was a guy, Adonis. Adonis Creed? I don't remember his name. Adonis? He was a world champion boxer.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:03:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:03:17 Don Stevenson?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:03:17 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:03:17 Boxer. Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:03:18 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:03:19 Oh my God.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:03:20 I was in the ring-

Joe Rogan 1:03:21 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:03:21 ... with him and I know the, one of the Howards brothers, who I think the oldest, he was just happy a white boy can go up there and box.

Joe Rogan 1:03:27 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:03:27 He's like, "Get up there and spar with this guy." I didn't know who this guy was. I'm like, "Yeah, okay."

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 (laughs)

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:03:31 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:31 You don't know.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:03:32 I, I was, yeah, yeah sure, thumbs up. And I go out there, I'm sparring this guy, he's taking it easy on me but, but, you know, whenever he would throw a punch, I felt it in my bones.

Joe Rogan 1:03:41 Mm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:03:41 I've never been hit like that. And the funny thing is he's probably taking it easy on me. I mean, you get, there's something about a guy, and which, which doesn't make sense for these MMA fighters to go over to boxing. A, it's exciting but still, to do that, it's just a diff- it's a different sport, it's a-

Joe Rogan 1:03:57 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:03:57 ... different, something different about it.

Joe Rogan 1:03:59 It's very different. But I think the most interesting, uh, crossover is Claressa Shields. Claressa, who is a two-time-

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:04:08 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:04:08 ... Olympic gold medalist in boxing. Now she's fighting in MMA and she's still young, man.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:04:13 And she looks great.

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 Woo!

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:04:15 Like she, she's crushing. I've seen her in some of the, some of her photos, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:04:18 Mm-hmm.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:04:18 Some of the videos she's putting out there.

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 Yeah.

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:04:20 She's doing, getting some work in for sure.

Joe Rogan 1:04:21 And those hands?

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson 1:04:22 You can do nothing with those.

Joe Rogan 1:04:22 You don't want no