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JRE MMA Show #108 with Stephen Thompson

Joe is joined by Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson: a mixed martial artist currently competing in the Welterweight division of the UFC.

Joe RoganhostStephen "Wonderboy" Thompsonguest
Jun 27, 20243h 7mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:36

    Wonderboy joins the show: COVID delays and still elite at 38

    1. JR

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

    2. ST

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

    3. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Wonderboy in the house, ladies and gentlemen.

    4. ST

      What's up?

    5. JR

      What's up, brother? What's going on, man?

    6. ST

      Dude.

    7. JR

      Thanks for coming in.

    8. ST

      Thank you, man. Appreciate you having me. Glad to be on with you.

    9. JR

      Long time coming. Should've had you in-

    10. ST

      I know.

    11. JR

      ... a long time ago, but it's just-

    12. ST

      I know.

    13. JR

      ... you know, schedules, times, things.

    14. ST

      (sighs) We had planned on it, like, last summer or something like that.

    15. JR

      Yeah.

    16. ST

      I mean, we were ... it was one of those things, but then obviously-

    17. JR

      The COVID.

    18. ST

      ... COVID ... The COVID, the vid.

    19. JR

      The COVID.

    20. ST

      (sighs) Yeah.

  2. 0:36 – 5:40

    The Pettis KO: “Getting knocked out was a relief” and what he remembers

    1. JR

      But, dude, you're still rocking at the top of the food chain. It's amazing.

    2. ST

      I'm saying. I'm- people, people are saying I'm too old. I'm 38.

    3. JR

      Well, look at your victory over Vicente Luque and then look what Luque just did to Tyron Woodley. You're still at the top of the fucking food chain, 'cause that was real recently that you beat him.

    4. ST

      Yeah. It wa- I mean, it was, what? A year ... It was two years ago.

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. ST

      Two years ago, I beat, I beat Vicente. But, uh, yeah, man, people saying I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm too old, and I guess once you get knocked out one time, you just ... They throw you to the side.

    7. JR

      That's people that don't understand the human chin.

    8. ST

      (laughs)

    9. JR

      It's just like ... It's just, it's just a fact. You get hit-

    10. ST

      I know.

    11. JR

      ... with a perfect shot, there's-

    12. ST

      It wasn't even hard. It wasn't even hard. You know, I've been hit harder. Tyron hit me harder. Jake Ellenberger hit me harder. This was just right on the button.

    13. JR

      It's crazy, isn't it?

    14. ST

      To be honest with you, it was like, it was like a, a relief being knocked out. I mean, I've got close to 80-something fights with kickboxing and MMA together and I've never been knocked out, and it was always one of those d- you know, le- going into a fight, "This is gonna be it."

    15. JR

      Hmm.

    16. ST

      "This is, this is gonna be the time I get knocked out." This was always going through my head. And now that it happened, it's not that bad. (laughs)

    17. JR

      (laughs)

    18. ST

      It's really not that bad. I would rather get knocked out than get just the crap beat out of me for five five-minute rounds.

    19. JR

      Have you ever been knocked out in training?

    20. ST

      No.

    21. JR

      So that was the only time ever in your whole career you've been knocked out?

    22. ST

      Only time ever.

    23. JR

      And it was a wild punch, too.

    24. ST

      Yeah.

    25. JR

      The fact that he caught you with a Superman punch.

    26. ST

      Oh, man. The, the memes after that were hilar- w- were hilar- I don't know if you saw it, but it was funny.

    27. JR

      You gotta think, though, you've dished it out so many times.

    28. ST

      I know.

    29. JR

      You know?

    30. ST

      I know.

  3. 5:40 – 8:20

    Quick turnaround offers, hometown UFC talk, and his first MMA main event

    1. ST

      (smacks lips) Yeah. It's funny you said that, because they ... UFC wanted me to fight, wanted me to fight two months later in my hometown.

    2. JR

      Wow.

    3. ST

      And after, the day after, was going to get some breakfast with some, with some friends, um, still in Knoxville, with the fam. And I get a call from, um, Dana, I think it was Hunter. "Hey, man, you still wanting to fight in Greenville, South Carolina?"... of course, the athlete in myself said yes. Like, I wanted to jump back in there and-

    4. JR

      Yeah.

    5. ST

      But then, you know, reality kicked in and, you know, I look over at my pops and he's like the, he, I think he already known who it was. He said that, he, he just shook his head.

    6. JR

      Who was it that you were supposed to?

    7. ST

      Um, I don't think we had anybody. The UFC should've made it Anthony Pettis.

    8. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    9. ST

      It was only, like, two months later. It should've been Anthony Pettis in my hometown. But, um, and I didn't find out that the UFC was in Greenville, I found that out watching some fights, like, uh, a few months before.

    10. JR

      So are you saying that the UFC should've made a rematch with Anthony Pettis?

    11. ST

      Not a rematch-

    12. JR

      Or it should've, had, that should've been when you fought Pettis?

    13. ST

      Yes.

    14. JR

      Was in your hometown.

    15. ST

      Yes.

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. ST

      We would've, we would've sold that out.

    18. JR

      Yeah.

    19. ST

      My first MMA fight was in the arena the UFC was at.

    20. JR

      Mm.

    21. ST

      Um, the Bonsecours Wellness Arena. And it was standing room only.

    22. JR

      What organization was that for?

    23. ST

      It was a, it was a, uh, promotion called Fight Party. And a lot of UFC fighters came up. OSP was on my first card.

    24. JR

      Really?

    25. ST

      It was crazy. OSP was fighting. Um, I think... Who else was on that card? Uh, both, uh, Limar Brothers were on that card. And it was my very first MMA fight in my hometown. And the main event, I think it was OSP was main event, but his fighter ended up not making weight or something. That didn't happen, so they pushed me to m- to the main ev- main event.

    26. JR

      W- what year was this?

    27. ST

      This was 2010.

    28. JR

      Wow.

    29. ST

      2010. And I'm like, "What?" I had no wrestling-

    30. JR

      (laughs)

  4. 8:20 – 13:37

    World Combat League memories and Joe’s “karate works” argument

    1. JR

      That World Combat League was an interesting situation.

    2. ST

      It was wild, right?

    3. JR

      Yeah. I, I, I went to one of them. Uh-

    4. ST

      Which one?

    5. JR

      I'm trying to remember. I think it was in Atlantic City. I'm trying to remember where it was at.

    6. ST

      I might've been on that card.

    7. JR

      You might've been on that card.

    8. ST

      I think I fought a guy named Carlos Tierney. Carlos Tierney?

    9. JR

      I'm not... I, I don't remember if you were on that card or not. I definitely watched you fight on, in those events. But I, I watched you a lot when Firas Zahabi was talking well about you. I was like, "Let me check this dude out." And then I saw some of your kickboxing fights, and I saw you in the World Combat League, and I was like, "Oh, shit." You, you, uh, when you got into UFC, I got really excited because you represented a style that I had been talking about for a while. 'Cause everybody was like, you know, for striking, it was Muay Thai. For submissions, it was jujitsu. And then there was wrestling.

    10. ST

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      Like, that's, like, kind of everybody had this idea of, like, what was effective and what wasn't. And I was like, "Man, I'm telling you, if you've, if you find a guy who really understands karate, who has that sideways stance and a really good front leg, he's gonna fuck a lot of people up and they're not gonna know what to do with it." And a lot of people, like, dismissed me. They're like, "What are you talking about?" They, they thought I was just, that I was reminiscing about my traditional martial arts days.

    12. ST

      Yeah.

    13. JR

      And I was like, "No. I'm telling you, man. Dudes with a good front leg, like, that's a totally different animal to get in on. When a guy has that sideways stance, and then when you're fighting, like, with your hands down and no one knew what to do and you lean back like a snake when guys are punching and you go forward." I'm like, "That's a totally different style, and it's a fucking really sneaky one. It's hard to handle."

    14. ST

      It is definitely a, a, a, a very difficult style to prepare for as well.

    15. JR

      Oh, yeah. Well, try finding-

    16. ST

      I know.

    17. JR

      ... and it, you got, like, you, Raymond Daniels. There's, like, a couple guys out there-

    18. ST

      That can do it.

    19. JR

      ... that can emulate that style.

    20. ST

      And it, I, I think it was, 'cause I remember in the early years, especially when Lyoto Machida was coming in, right?

    21. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. ST

      He's a traditional, what? Kyokushin? Was it Kyokushin style?

    23. JR

      Um...

    24. ST

      Shotokan? I think it was Kyokushin.

    25. JR

      I think so. Shotokan.

    26. ST

      Shotokan?

    27. JR

      I think it was Shotokan, yeah.

    28. ST

      Okay, I know, I know GSP was Shotokan as well.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. ST

      That was kind of his background.

  5. 13:37 – 20:32

    Street-fight reality, “nicest street fighter,” and the family backstory

    1. ST

      Yeah, the, the, the, the street fighting thing, I, I, I agree with you 'cause you YouTube street fights now, and it's like 99.9 of 'em, nine percent of them, they end up on the ground. They're, they're, they-

    2. JR

      99, but the ones where a guy can deliver a wheel kick in a street fight-

    3. ST

      Oh, God.

    4. JR

      ... holy shit. (laughs)

    5. ST

      (laughs) Oh, God. You seen that?

    6. JR

      I've seen a few of those.

    7. ST

      Oh, it's ridiculous.

    8. JR

      Crazy.

    9. ST

      Oh, I know. And everybody is just ... you're just going crazy.

    10. JR

      (screams) What?

    11. ST

      (screams) What?

    12. JR

      Yeah, if someone pulls off, like, a real, like, movie martial arts technique in a street fight-

    13. ST

      And probably killed the guy 'cause he hit his head on the pavement, but ...

    14. JR

      I know, right?

    15. ST

      Right. Yeah.

    16. JR

      That's the scary thing.

    17. ST

      I'm sc- I, I told myself, like, "If I were ever in a street situation," you know, hopefully I've never been in one, but I'm like, "Hey, man, let's go to the grass."

    18. JR

      Yeah. (laughs)

    19. ST

      "Let's move over here to the grassy area, just in case."

    20. JR

      Yeah.

    21. ST

      You know? But yeah-

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. ST

      ... the point fighting thing, he ... (laughs)

    24. JR

      (laughs) The nicest street fighter ever.

    25. ST

      (laughs)

    26. JR

      At East, you know what I mean?

    27. ST

      The NMF, man. I gotta hold that, I gotta hold that title, you know?

    28. JR

      That's so funny. Not only the nicest MMA fighter, the nicest street fighter. (laughs)

    29. ST

      I'm gonna tell you. I was in some scuffles, you know, in, in high school. And I remember beating the crap out of this kid, and his mom rolls up, you know, to pick him up after school. This is right after school, and I ... He was ... My sister was just ... she's a badass, man. My o- my older sister. She fought kickboxing. She kicked my behind for years. I mean, I've seen her knock dudes out. My sister was-

    30. JR

      Really?

  6. 20:32 – 24:30

    Elvis karate, Bill “Superfoot” Wallace, and the front-leg philosophy

    1. JR

      Front leg round kicks seem like they don't have anything to them.

    2. ST

      Nothing.

    3. JR

      But the first time I ever knocked a guy out, it was a front leg roundhouse kick.

    4. ST

      And I bet you it wasn't even as hard as you could.

    5. JR

      It was, it was weird. It felt like I barely hit him-

    6. ST

      Yeah.

    7. JR

      ... it just, and he just shut off.

    8. ST

      Just right.

    9. JR

      It's just, it's fast.

    10. ST

      Yeah.

    11. JR

      And, uh, one of the things that I love that you do, it's v- th- and we were taught to do that too, is you, you sneak things around the shoulders.

    12. ST

      Over the shoulders.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. ST

      Over the shoulders.

    15. JR

      And so you don't see it coming until it's right here. "Oh, shit!" Bang.

    16. ST

      Yeah.

    17. JR

      And then it's too late.

    18. ST

      Was it the f- the first fight?

    19. JR

      Yes.

    20. ST

      The very f- the very first fight?

    21. JR

      Yeah. Mm-hmm.

    22. ST

      And a lot of times, I, I will fight with my hands down, and so I like to lure people in with my face.

    23. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    24. ST

      You know? I can hit you from there. But r- they don't realize that, you know, everybody has a, a security, their own security forcefield, I would say, around them. And when you step... If y- if I just plod in to that little security boundary you have, you get defensive. You start bringing your hands up, you're more aware. But if you stay to the outside of that, you know, they start to get more relaxed.

    25. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    26. ST

      Those hands start to drop just a little bit. Even if it's just a little bit, that's-

    27. JR

      'Cause you can't be tense all the time.

    28. ST

      Right. And that's when I got you.

    29. JR

      Yeah.

    30. ST

      You know? 'Cause I can close that gap faster than you can.

  7. 24:30 – 40:33

    From above-the-waist kickboxing to MMA leg kicks—and the calf-kick era

    1. ST

      I started, I had... My last fight, my last kickboxing fight before I wanted to go MMA, it was a leg kick fight. It was a Muay Thai fight.

    2. JR

      So that was your first one?

    3. ST

      My very first one.

    4. JR

      So you had, like, 56 above the waist, or below the... Above the waist?

    5. ST

      Above the waist.

    6. JR

      And then one Muay Thai style?

    7. ST

      Which, it can kind of go both ways. I figured, like, now that I go back to above the waist, it's so hard.

    8. JR

      Right.

    9. ST

      It's so much harder.

    10. JR

      Right, 'cause you can't kick the legs.

    11. ST

      (laughs) You can't, you... Yeah.

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. ST

      Where you're not getting kicked, but then you only have this small area that you have to find an, you know, a spot to kick, or find an opening, when you can create that by just kicking somebody in the leg.

    14. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. ST

      And it was so difficult. Um, but that was my first experience with full contact, like, to the legs. Like, uh, our Kenpo style, um, we go at it, man. It's... My dad's just really old school, and, uh, I remember in the, in the earlier days, if you didn't have the natural ability to do the martial arts, he ran you off.

    16. JR

      Really?

    17. ST

      Oh, yeah. It was that... Early '80s, he was very hardcore.

    18. JR

      He didn't let you learn?

    19. ST

      Um, uh, he just... I don't think... He wanted, he wanted... Uh, the easier for him to teach you something, those are the kind of people he wanted around. He didn't want to spend a whole lot of time-

    20. JR

      (laughs)

    21. ST

      ... trying to, trying to... And this is what I got.

    22. JR

      Right.

    23. ST

      He may have something different, but this is kind of, you know, living in the dojo is what I kind of come up with, you know?

    24. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    25. ST

      And people didn't last long. He was drill... So he grew up in a military school, pretty much. His dad was pretty rough. Put him in military school. His dad owned bars and brothels, man, in Charleston, South Carolina.

    26. JR

      Oh, wow.

    27. ST

      And, uh, high school, put him in military school, that's when he fell in love with the martial arts. And then when he, when he was 18, he moved his... He moved, moved out.

    28. JR

      It's so crazy that Elvis is what inspired him.

    29. ST

      Elvis.

    30. JR

      (laughs)

  8. 40:33 – 51:21

    Shin conditioning, MRSA cautionary tales, and his most brutal knee injury

    1. ST

      I had fought on a card in Montreal, this was when I was in kickboxing, this was before I had torn every ligament in my left leg in the World Combat League when I fought Raymond Daniels. To where-

    2. JR

      You tore every ligament?

    3. ST

      Every ligament in my left leg. It took-

    4. JR

      What happened?

    5. ST

      First 30 seconds of the first round it was... Of course you were in that weird bowl.

    6. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    7. ST

      Right? And it was, um, it wasn't canvas. And I believe it was the first 30 seconds in the first round, I had fought Raymond, and, uh, I guess they didn't clean up where somebody had fallen on their back at the fight before, there was some really, some damp spots. And I knew Raymond Daniels, he liked to spin, I don't forgot which side forward it was, but he likes to spin off of, I think it might be his left foot in front, so he kicks with his right leg. And I think he was kind of in between switching, and I decided to blitz him then, right? I was trying to catch him when he switched. And then I had ran in, for some reason, um, I had slipped a little bit as I was coming in. He grabs me by the neck and he pulls me to the side, so I step with my left foot, my leg went straight. Then he kind of pulls down and I just kind of fold into my leg and it just collapsed inward.

    8. JR

      Oh.

    9. ST

      And that's all she wrote, man. It just, I could just feel it just collapse, everything just gave way. Brahdah, you get, I just felt every- everything just break, just prah. And I'm sitting on the ground rolling around. Here we go, watch this. Right there. Boom! Right, you, oh my goodness, dude.

    10. JR

      Oh, my God.

    11. ST

      Oh my goodness. Ooh!

    12. JR

      Oh, look at you.

    13. ST

      So-

    14. JR

      See?

    15. ST

      ... that's where I slip there.

    16. JR

      He's throwing the blitz.

    17. ST

      And he pulls, he pulls to the left and I step and that's when it collapsed in.

    18. JR

      Oh my God.

    19. ST

      It just went... I j- I remember afterwards I tried to stand up, that's where I slipped. Boom, I pull in, he stepped, pulls down. What? It was almost like this, I guess. What?

    20. JR

      Oh.

    21. ST

      Kind of, like, kind of pulls me in-... it was terrible. And then, um-

    22. JR

      You have to get surgery?

    23. ST

      Yeah, multiple.

    24. JR

      Multiple surgeries?

    25. ST

      Multiples, I did cadaver.

    26. JR

      How many? How many surgeries?

    27. ST

      Well, there was only one original surgery where they went in, they took 40% of my meniscus out.

    28. JR

      Oof.

    29. ST

      Uh, I did, um-

    30. JR

      That's a lot.

  9. 51:21 – 1:16:38

    GSP invites him to camp: the moment he commits to MMA adjustments

    1. ST

      It does, 100%. I mean, especially the angles. I, I, you never see me throw it in, in ... You did in the earlier days. I mean, when I fought Nashawn Burrell, you know, I out-wrestled him, out-struck him, but I was using a lot of wrestling. Chris Clements, I was doing a lot of wrestling, I was taking him down, but I think it was after the Nashawn Burrell fight. I was just like, Joe Silva comes up and was like, "Hey, Steven." He's like, "Just remember, it wasn't your wrestling that got you here." And I'm like ... That's all he said. I was like-

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. ST

      ... "Got you." But, um, you know, it was the Matt Brown fight that I really, after that I really wanted to show him my wrestling, 'cause everybody thought I didn't have it. And then I, I don't think it was the fact that I didn't have it, I was just done 30 seconds into the first round. I was ... The weight cut and everything killed me. And-

    4. JR

      What was it about that fight? 'Cause that was a weird fight for you.

    5. ST

      It was. It was different. Man, I had just come off of knocking this dude out in the first round, got the bonus, you know, and it was like ... The week I got back, they were like, "Hey, man, you want to, you want to fight this guy Matt Brown in a few months?" I'm like, "Yeah, let's make it happen." I was like, "Why does that name sound familiar?" And then I looked him up, I was like, "Dude, this dude's got some fights, man. He's, he's been in the game for a while." But you know what I'm-

    6. JR

      Matt Brown is a-

    7. ST

      Yeah.

    8. JR

      ... fucking-

    9. ST

      Savage.

    10. JR

      ... savage.

    11. ST

      And, uh, he showed it. Man, it was just cr- ... I'll tell you in a second what ... We rode back in the ambulance together after the fight 'cause we beat each other up so bad. But I had hired a new strength and condi- conditioning coach and, you know, and I was doing a lot of heavy lifting. I only walked around about 215. Never got up above 200 pounds since then. Just muscled up. And I, and I, I had, you know, Nate Marquardt come down for my camp and I felt great, you know. And realizing that everything was going great, until I had to cut the weight. And-

    12. JR

      You got up to 215?

    13. ST

      Yeah.

    14. JR

      Oh my God.

    15. ST

      210, 215, I think my-

    16. JR

      So-

    17. ST

      ... heaviest I was about 215.

    18. JR

      So you're cutting 40 pounds.

    19. ST

      Yeah. Killed me.

    20. JR

      40 pounds?

    21. ST

      Killed me. Um, after that weight cut-

    22. JR

      How far out did you start the cut?

    23. ST

      Man, uh, I think a little too late. Um, trying to come down. I mean, I was eating chicken. I hate chicken. I, to this day, I don't really like chicken since then.

    24. JR

      (laughs)

    25. ST

      But, um, I still felt explosive. I guess, you know, if you are naturally explosive, you're gonna keep some of that?

    26. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    27. ST

      Even if you gain some muscle. Um, but, uh, I had just cut weight. I started cu- ... I think I, I don't remember when I started it, but I remember almost passing out a few times, you know, getting down to that weight. Um, and-

    28. JR

      Did you check your weight before you got back in the octagon? Like, when you fully rehydrated-

    29. ST

      No.

    30. JR

      ... how heavy did you get?

Episode duration: 3:07:30

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