The Joe Rogan ExperienceJRE MMA Show #110 with Craig Jones & Alex Volkanovski
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,004 words- 0:00 – 1:20
Volkanovski returns (and Craig Jones joins): forgetting the last Vegas podcast
- JRJoe Rogan
(drum music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- NANarrator
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) And we're up with, uh, the baddest motherfucker in the 145-pound division on the planet Earth, Alexander The Great Volkanovski.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, uh, by default, the number one grappler on the planet because he-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... poisoned his teammate.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah, but you're breaking secrets there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, it's a, it's a lie.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It's not true. Craig Jones, you bad motherfucker. Um-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... what were you about to say?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
I'm just glad to be present right now because last time we had, uh, our, our podcast, I don't even remember it. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
How do you not remember it?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Well, Vegas, Vegas got me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
I remember coming in, I'm like, yeah, man. And I was, like, in a weird bubble. Maybe nerves and that included in it. I don't know what it was, but I literally don't even remember it 'cause I was, I had big nights over there, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, okay.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
So yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Nights.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Big, big nights. And then I un- like I barely remember it, so I'm like, "Man-
- JRJoe Rogan
Huh.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
... what did, what did I say?" I, I literally thought, like, the boys, uh, they're in the green room and they're like, "Oh, no, you talked about this." I go, "I talked about that?" Like, I honestly couldn't remember nothing, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Welcome to my life.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
I leave here and people are mad at me. And I'm like, "What the fuck did I say?" And they're like, "You said that thing about the guy." And I'm like, "Did I?"
- AVAlex Volkanovski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't remember what the fuck I said. Yeah, 'cause if you're in a good conversation, it just goes down the hole.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
That's it.
- 1:20 – 2:41
Volk on Alex Jones + hype for the upcoming Who’s Number One event
- JRJoe Rogan
Speaking of good conversations, you were on The Great and Powerful Alex Jones Show yesterday.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
What the fuck was that like?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
A great experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Uh, Alex is just as funny in real life as he is on the show.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's hilarious.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
I could listen to that guy talk all day and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, he easily could be a standup comedian.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Easily. I think, uh, I'm actually trying to convince him. I believe he's gonna come to the grappling show this Friday night, and I'm gonna persuade him to jump in the corner. So I'm gonna have Alex Jones and Jon Danaher.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- AVAlex Volkanovski
And what, so Joe-
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
... what do you reckon? Are you gonna jump in there too maybe, hey?
- JRJoe Rogan
No.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I, I just may- might have to separate Jon from Alex. I don't know, know if those personalities will work so well.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Imagine that as a podcast.
- JRJoe Rogan
(sighs)
- AVAlex Volkanovski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't.
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
There's certain things you don't wanna mix. I don't think I'd mix those two together. I think, you know, you wanna listen to Jon talk.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
I'll get Jon to whisper things to Alex, and Alex can give me that energy he brings to the show.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, right, like, have, like, Jon whispering certain instructions.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
It would be, like, one step, but he'd fuck it up though. Like, he wouldn't really know. "Step on his leg." "No, no, over, over the leg."
- AVAlex Volkanovski
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You know? (laughs)
- NANarrator
I would love it.
- 2:41 – 4:32
The Ultimate Fighter return: filming schedule, talent level, and what viewers can expect
- JRJoe Rogan
... whatever they were saying, his, whatever his stomach issue is. So, uh, are you done filming Th- The Ultimate Fighter?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Finished.
- JRJoe Rogan
Finished?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Finished filming, yeah. All done.
- JRJoe Rogan
How many weeks all t- all told did you do?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Uh, we did about four and a half weeks, I think it was. Four and a half weeks, but, uh, yeah, all done now.
- JRJoe Rogan
And this is the return of The Ultimate Fighter for the last... How many years it's been off the air? Three?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Uh, was it, yeah, two or three? Three?
- JRJoe Rogan
Two or three years?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah.
- NANarrator
I'm not even sure.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah, no. So yeah, but it's, that's what it's called, The Return of The Ultimate Fighter, so-
- JRJoe Rogan
How was it?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
It-
- JRJoe Rogan
How was it for you?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
It was good. You know, obviously we can't give too much away, but it was good. It was a great experience for all of us, uh, and, uh, it's pretty interesting as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
How is the talent level of the upcoming guys, the guys that are on the show?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah, good. Yeah, they're, they're great. Uh, mate, like cool dudes. They're all actually pretty, pretty good dudes, you know, from both, from both shows. But yeah, obviously, uh, you get, a little bit gets heated here and there, but, uh, there were some good fights as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
If you look back at The Ultimate Fighter and you see, like, the lev- over the years, the lev- it's amazing, the level of talent just keeps getting better and better and better. You know, in the beginning days, the guys were, you know, you had guys from, like, smaller circuits and, you know, guys who were maybe, some were veterans, maybe some were beginners. But now, like, if you watch Dana White's Tue- Tuesday Night Contender Series, it's, like, so many of those guys-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... are really talented. It's-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
... it's pretty amazing, like you see guys that have UFC debuts and you watch them and you go, "Wow, these guys are good." Like, really smooth, good flow, you know, great transitions, great overall, uh, you know, octagon IQ.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm noticing that, that as well. Like e- even, uh, as you said, Dana White Con- Uh, Contender Series. But, uh, yeah, 'cause you did watch it back in the day. Obviously, it was a, a little bit different, I guess, but obviously the knowledge is more out there now and e- everyone's sharing that knowledge in big gyms and all that type of stuff. But I feel like I- I've noticed that a lot, the level, uh, in this. Even though they're all entertaining, they're still, they know exactly what they're doing in there as well.
- 4:32 – 7:28
Craig Jones as Volk’s grappling coach: sparring, OnlyFans-style training, and why Craig avoids MMA
- JRJoe Rogan
And it only makes sense that you bring in a fellow Aussie to be your grappling coach.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Talk-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, when Alex gave me the call to come in-
- JRJoe Rogan
Talk up into this thing. Bring that sucker up to your face. There you go.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
When Alex gave me the call to jump in, yeah, I was very excited. Obviously a big MMA fan. Too scared to do MMA myself.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Uh, but I really had a lot of fun jumping in with the guys and, uh, the level of grappling was awesome.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
My-
- JRJoe Rogan
Sorry, go ahead.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
We, we got a kickboxing session in as well. Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I saw that. I saw that online.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
He fucked me up. He fucked me up on the wall and grappling for 10 minutes each, but then I got, uh, five minutes to bash him about a bit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Push, push it out so that it's like, you don't have to do that. But just get it, like, right in front of your face.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Like this?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, there you go. Like there. But you can move so you don't f- I don't want you doing this.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Cramped up.
- JRJoe Rogan
Feel un- uncomfortable. Um, had you done a lot of, uh, striking training before that?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Uh, I mean, 10 years ago when I was sort of getting into jujitsu I would just put on the MMA gloves and me and my buddies would just beat the shit out of each other. We'd go home with headaches and stuff. But really, I would say no formal training. I wouldn't have put gloves on for 10 years. But really, I created an Only Fans account for a bit of a laugh, uh, and I wanted to put Alex on but I figured it would only be fair, so we'd do 10 minutes of grappling, 10 minutes of wall work 'cause I guess wall work's sort of, like, the intermediary, but then five minutes of kickboxing. I was only meant to do kickboxing but he beat the shit out of me so bad I had to shoot a take down.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- AVAlex Volkanovski
(laughs) I'm like, "That's, that's not the rules. What's going on here?" Yeah, he stood it up. He got the, uh, cameraman to give a fucking referee stand-up. I was like, "This is unfair. Let me survive a little longer." (laughs) I think it was very fair 'cause it was just kickboxing.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Well, d- you've never had any itch at all to do MMA?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
A little bit but, um, I used to go to university and study psychology, and I remember all it took was one, uh, section on traumatic brain injury and I was like, "Uh, what do they get paid? That's probably not enough. That's not enough for me."
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- NANarrator
You know what?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
I've got, I've got footage of, uh, him hitting pads with, uh, Joe Lopez, so I might, I'm gonna put that up.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, I mean-
- NANarrator
Yeah, have you looked at that?
- CJCraig Jones
... give the people a laugh.
- 7:28 – 19:17
Shadowbans, Instagram algorithms, and Craig’s pawn shop mistake with WWII/Nazi imagery
- JRJoe Rogan
Explain to me that you guys were saying that you're shadowbanned.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Mm-hmm. So I, I just, I think ... I couldn't tell you exactly why I'm shadowbanned, but, but, but I am. I've noticed that there's a, a few UFC fighters, uh, as well that are, that are shadowbanned. I don't know if it's because of the sport or, or what. I don't think it's anything that I've put up. You know what I mean? Like, uh, it's, uh, the content I'm, you know ... You can understand with Craig Jones.
- JRJoe Rogan
Listen, if Derrick Lewis-
- CJCraig Jones
(laughs)
- AVAlex Volkanovski
You can understand with Craig Jones. But I've got a children's book, so, you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
I'm, (laughs) I'm a, I'm a family man, you know, so obviously I like to have a bit of fun. But I ain't putting anything out there that, that-
- JRJoe Rogan
No, no.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
... I should be shadowbanned for, but I am.
- JRJoe Rogan
Now, when, when, when you say you're shadowbanned, like, what makes you say that?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Uh, because they ... Say if you, you were to look me up-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
... uh, that's what shadowbanned is all ... Like, so if you try and look us up, like, you literally need to have to write our full name, uh, to, to get us popping up. I'll get all my fan pages coming up before me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Let me see. I'm gonna do that right now.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
So w- let's go right now. We'll go to Inter-, uh, Instagram.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
I- it ... Is that the case if they're following you as well? Or-
- CJCraig Jones
If they're following you already, I believe it should pop up.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
I don't know.
- CJCraig Jones
But I defi- I definitely know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right away. Right away, you pop up.
- CJCraig Jones
What ... Comes up straightaway?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Okay.
- CJCraig Jones
I definitely know why I got shadowbanned.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you pop up first.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Oh, really?
- JRJoe Rogan
I got ... I, I typed in Alex, and you popped up first.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Oh, okay. Oh, there you go.
- 19:17 – 23:47
Volk’s COVID ordeal in fight camp: training while infected, pneumonia, and recovery timeline
- JRJoe Rogan
Now you guys were supposed to s- you were scheduled to fight, but then you got COVID.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And when you got COVID, when you got tested, initially, when you got tested, you didn't feel sick, right?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Uh, I mean, before, 'cause we all get tested a fair bit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
So, uh, I'm guessing before we went into the bubble, I, I must have got it from someone or whatever. And then, uh, you know, a few days later, we got tested a couple of times, it didn't pop up, but then we got tested, yeah, one of the days, and that was like right at the end of my camp. Like, 'cause I went there a bit early to, for Brad Riddell to, to corner or be, be with him 'cause he fought the week before me. So I did my last week of training, hard training, in Vegas, after traveling and doing all that. And then I got COVID. Uh, must have had it, uh, trained like hard, you know, we, we get stuck into it. So I did back to back 'cause the, the schedule got tightened up 'cause we, we arrived a bit later in the week. So, uh, back to back really, really solid sessions while I probably had COVID. Uh, so, but I mean, I sort of had started getting headaches and that before. I was like, "Man, I'm getting headaches. Oh, it's Vegas, maybe, you know, just dehydrated and, and whatnot." But, but yeah, then I tested positive and then I started getting the symptoms after that.
- JRJoe Rogan
And when you say like your schedule tightened up, so you guys have a very rigid program that you follow no matter what, like, this day you're doing this, that day you're doing-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah, exactly. So we got a, you know, we got a, a few hard sessions, and when I say hard sessions, they're, you know, they're, you know, they're mind-blowing type of sessions, like for some people that, that will, they'll watch it, but, you know, that's just our, our schedule. And, uh, usually have good rest in between them, and, like that's, you know, you need to have the rest, you know, you want good recovery so you're able to do them, you know, and... This camp was beautiful. We, we did it absolutely, we nailed the camp, man. I was doing some of the hardest sessions, but I w- I was recovering on point. My recovery was on point. I was like, "Man," like, you know, "I'm getting older, but I feel like the camp's getting easier." Like, "How is that happening right now?" But, uh, that, that week got tightened up. So I ended up doing a couple of these really, really high loaded sessions. Uh, they end up being like back to back, where usually I would have like high, low session, high, low session, low. It would be like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
What was the decision? What made the decision to do high back to back to back?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Uh, just, just, uh, w- again, it was just more the fact that, uh, you know, we just needed to do a couple. I, I still don't think it was that, but I felt fine, like while I was doing that, like I didn't think nothing of it, but I just... 'Cause, uh, I ended up getting pretty rattled from, from the, the COVID, that's why I was like, "Man," like, and maybe my immune system was down at the, you know, at the end of the, at the end of camp, obviously dieting and all that type of stuff. But I felt fine, but, you know, I, I'm pretty sure I started feeling some of the symptoms, uh, before I was getting into them hard sessions as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. All the fighters that I know that got it bad, it was all the same sort of situation-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... when they were in camp, really beaten up, like Cody Garbrandt, same thing with-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Mm-hmm. Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
Cody had COVID for probably weeks and was training with it-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... before he even got tested. And, and then they're like, "Bro, you got COVID." And he's like, "Oh, well, that explains a lot."
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then, you know, he was pretty fucked up for a few months, but-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... he had trained like-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... real hard, like training-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Well, that's, that's obviously gonna, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
... play a big factor. And you, uh, and the thing is like you hear, and then you hear like the hazmat, uh, you know, sort of situations, Cody Garbrandt.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
So like, we wanted to keep an eye on it, but, you know what I mean? And that's why we got it, and then we ended up finding out he got the pneumonia, and then, uh, you know, then... The s- the symptoms, uh, yeah. I felt the symptoms a fair bit, but then, uh, then I got that pneumonia and then like, uh, the sort of the infection just started getting a little bit worser. So I ended up getting, you know, pink, uh, coughing up like pinky bloody sort of stuff, and then the, the blood just got more and more. So then we went back and that's when they, they got me on the medication and, and yeah, 'cause I was like coughing up blood.
- JRJoe Rogan
In all told, how sick, or like how long were you sick for?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Uh, probably, would have been maybe 10 days or something, maybe like yes.
- 23:47 – 29:46
Craig’s vaccine side effects: swollen lymph nodes, fluid retention, and skipping the second dose
- JRJoe Rogan
But what wasn't mild for you was when you got vaccinated.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. So I got vaccinated probably six weeks ago and, uh, the logic behind it was, uh, my family's back in Australia, so I haven't seen my parents, my brother for probably close to two years now. And Australia's gonna be definitely one of those places you're gonna need the, the vaccine, I assume, to travel there. So I went and got it, and, uh, yeah, it was a rough time. Obviously, I had the standard side effects, so fever, uh, cold sweats, uh, a lot of exhaustion, headaches, but then my lymph nodes started to swell up and I started to get some crazy pregnant looking stomach, and actually had to pull out of a, a grappling match for it. So I was on The Ultimate Fighter, so I was going to bail out one of the weekends on the show, go compete, but yeah, it was just for a week. I think I was carrying this fluid for close to a week.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- CJCraig Jones
For a week.
- JRJoe Rogan
And they never drained it to see what it is or anything like that?
- CJCraig Jones
No. I just peed it out eventually. Uh, Volk was telling me. He's like, "Sleep upright, pull your pants above your stomach." And yeah, eventually it came-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
... outta there, but, uh...
- AVAlex Volkanovski
'Cause you could see it, mate. He was wearing pants. And like you could see it, like sort of like the fluid would like get caught there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
And I'm like, yeah, just sleep upright-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, let's... Show the, Jamie, show the, uh, the image of it 'cause it's very weird.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
It's funny 'cause who, who else got a, who else got the COVID test? Ah, sorry, no. Who else got the, the vaccines?
- JRJoe Rogan
So-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
There was a few of yous.
- CJCraig Jones
Me, Woods, and Joe all got it. And, uh, yeah, I was the only one that really got messed up. Woods, Woods said he felt pretty shit for probably three, four days, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Did Woods have COVID at, any time?
- CJCraig Jones
I don't believe so. Neither does Joe. Joe's somehow immune. He was with you throughout the whole-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Joe, mate, like we were, even when we got it, the four of us got it. There was like four of us that got it in our camp. Joe was training with us. Like he was like sharing drinks, everything with one of the guys that... You know what I mean? And, and he just didn't get it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. They don't know why. They, I mean, they, they think there's a bunch of factors.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Some people, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They think it's, uh, your blood type. It's definitely how healthy your immune system is based on, like how healthy you're eating, exercise, all that stuff. But they don't, they don't know why. It doesn't make any sense. 'Cause some people, like they drink, they smoke, they live in a house filled with people that got COVID, they don't get it. It's weird.
- CJCraig Jones
It's crazy, yeah. 'Cause Joe, Joe does like to have a good time and yeah, he-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Joe hates me saying this, but I've been told old, old-
- JRJoe Rogan
(clears throat)
- AVAlex Volkanovski
... pissheads don't get COVID.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's, that's a good image, but let's go to the image before that. That's the one you really see it on the side.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
See where his pants at?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 29:46 – 49:44
Danaher’s “wizard” coaching and the leg-lock revolution (plus Palhares horror stories)
- JRJoe Rogan
That is, it's one of the craziest things I've ever heard of in my life. Yeah, a guy like that who, uh, literally used to teach philosophy at Columbia, fucking brilliant guy, who also is like super high level grappler himself, and decides to dedicate his life to training, uh, the best grapplers on earth and has had these insane results. I mean, it's, it's a really wild story. If you looked at the, the Jon Danaher origin story as like a Marvel Comics, you know, like uh, some sort of a mentor and Doctor Strange or something like that. You know what I mean? Like he doesn't seem like a real guy.
- CJCraig Jones
For sure. He's like some sort of mythical sort of being, like 'cause most people like, uh, you've shot the shit with him, you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CJCraig Jones
But most people never see that side of him.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CJCraig Jones
They just see his instructionals or his interviews and stuff where he's-... very, very serious. But, uh, yeah, he's... It's crazy how knowledgeable he is in jujitsu. And what's funny is, I sort of taught myself leg locks in Australia watching his guys compete on EBI and stuff. Like, I had no idea what I was doing but I would be like... I'd watch the- them using these moves. 'Cause they didn't teach it in instructionals back then. So we were just left trying to figure it out. I'm sure like Eddie's guys were trying to figure it out as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CJCraig Jones
But that was how I learned leg locks and then it was just funny to ultimately one day join the team that I'd been stealing their moves from for years.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- AVAlex Volkanovski
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
I couldn't beat Gordon so I was like, "Fuck it. I'll jump in as well."
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's so interesting. When I was, uh, training a lot, there was very little leg locks. Like, I remember Dean Lister in 2003 in Abu Dhabi, you know, he was leg locking a lot of guys and Dean was like one of the few guys... There, there was like a few other guys, but he was one of the, the real top level guys who was winning by heel hook and even ankle locks and stuff like... Knee bars. And then John and him have this one conversation, one time, where he says to John, "Why would you ignore 50% of the body?" And John's like, "Ding." And then he just develops this entire system based on leg locks and then you guys start dominating. Garry Tonon, Gordon, Nicky, you, all these guys d- start dominating. Eddie. Start dominating with leg locks. And then everybody else is trying to dissect your system and put it together. It's really tr- it's crazy because that's not that long. Like if you think about like how long arm bars have been around, rear naked chokes, how much standard jujitsu techniques, then all of a sudden somewhere around like... What year was it? 2015 or something like that? Like what year did leg locks just start taking over?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, definitely. I would say around 2015. I mean, I mean indirectly I guess Eddie Bravo's sort of responsible for this in a way because he gave the guys the platform to demonstrate this.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
'Cause in jujitsu at the time, apart from ADCC, you couldn't really do heel hooks in any tournaments.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CJCraig Jones
So a lot of people didn't put any energy into it because they were like, "Why am I gonna become a master in this skillset when there's no platform for me to use them on?" So you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. We had Usmar Palhares.
- CJCraig Jones
Terrifying guy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, terrifying guy, in the UFC. And he would heel hook you and hold onto it.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. And just not let it go which was terrible, you know. I mean, he ruined guys' knees and they... He's the only guy that I know that's been kicked out of two organizations. The PFL kicked him out and then the U- the UFC kicked him out first, then the PFL kicked him out too.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, yeah. Thank God he disappeared from grappling and everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
He was actually one of the catalysts for me to learn leg locks 'cause I qualified for ADCC and I was in the same weight division as him. And I was like, "W- I gotta learn this shit-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- CJCraig Jones
"... or this guy's gonna potentially injure me forever." You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right. That is what you had to think too because when... Do you ever see the match with David Avalon where they w- rolled out of bounds?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So they... Have you seen it?
- 49:44 – 59:10
Camp mindset: tape study, evolving between fights, and building an eight-week fight blueprint
- JRJoe Rogan
It's interesting. There's, uh, uh, uh, th- there's different schools of thought when it comes to how, how you prepare, and some schools of thought think you need time off where you don't think about shit, where you just go and play basketball, or go fishing, or just, just relax. You need that relax time. And other people say, "No. No, you need your fucking nose to the grindstone, period."
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Well, uh, the thing is, people do their camps. They do their camp and then they stop, "Oh, I want a break until next camp." So where's your time for learning? Where's your time for evolving? 'Cause-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
... when I'm in camp, I'm ... That whole camp is structured for that fight. You know what I mean? So I'm doing every session, every drilling session is structured for that fight. Uh, you know, um, obviously a lot of it's cardio and getting yourself ready for the fight. But then, when you're, you're not fighting, say after the fight, like, all right, just do- doing a heap of drilling with, with, uh, Craig or, or like with the, with, with the coaches just doing a heap of striking and just working on other things, and get a real understanding on things that, yeah, I don't need in the next fight. But I got time to evolve and expand the brain. Like, you know what I mean? Like, so that's, that's where I feel like is the best time. Doesn't mean you have to go and bust your ass.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
But, I mean, I feel like in between camps is where you evolve.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's where you learn, right. Right.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah, that's where you learn and get as much knowledge as you can. But then once I, I know I'm fighting someone, I'll write eight weeks. That eight weeks before it is purely structured towards that fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Now, when you say, "Structured towards the fight," so do you guys have, uh, with City Kickboxing, do you have it mapped out, like, in advance, where you have, like, "Here's your eight-week camp. This is what we're gonna do on Monday. This is what we're gonna do on Tuesday."
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Everything is completely mapped out?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yep. Yep. So everything's there. And again, like, uh, as I was saying earlier about having, uh, you know, the high sessions and low sess-... You need to have the, the, you know, the sessions in between, uh, like the, the chill sessions, like where you are gonna drill certain things-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
... that you're gonna need in that fight. And that... Or a bit of a, you know, a pad session or, or something like that. Game planning. So, uh, yeah, and we do... We have everything from eight weeks structured specifically for the fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
So we even do sessions exactly the time we're gonna fight. Obviously, in Australia, it's Sunday, so we don't really have any days off because, you know, Sunday's usually our day off, but that's when we fight in Australia.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Because it's Saturday night in America.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yes, exactly. So, uh, we, you know, we- we'd have, we have, uh, you know, we'll just have the, the night off. Or like, so we'll have like three half-days in a row, so that's our recovery. So we will train, uh, seven days a week. But, like, there's three days where you got really, you got high, high sessions, but they're gonna be nothing the rest of the day. And then, like, we'll do that, and then on the Sunday. So it's everything specifically for, for that, for that fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
What time is, like, 9:00 PM Pacific Time in Australia, in America?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
It'll be about, uh, lunchtime.
- JRJoe Rogan
So lunchtime, you train like you're fighting?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah, lunchtime or, or Pacific Time, actually. That might be a bit different. But, yeah, it'll be, uh, the, the time of the, say, the main card-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
... would usually be around lunchtime or just after.
- JRJoe Rogan
And do you guys do anything to make sure that your sleep gets in that rhythm, uh, in advance?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
How do you ... What do you do for that?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Yeah, 100%. So we do, especially, say, a good example was Brazil. So, uh, we were ... When we went over there ... So the time's still gonna be the same, but when you're in Brazil, like we had to be up. We, we made sure that we stayed up till like two o'clock in the morning and then, uh... Or, was that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah, two o'clock in the morning 'cause I was gonna fight around one o'clock or, or, you know, or two, two o'clock. So we were ... made sure that we were wake till then, and then I'd go to sleep after that. 'Cause we wanted the body clock to be like, "All right, one o'clock in the morning, 1:30, two, two, two AM, that's go time. We need to be alert."
- JRJoe Rogan
And that's when you... So you were sleeping like that in Australia?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
No, no, 'cause, uh, well, in Australia the times worked out okay, but in Brazil wasn't. So the week we were there, we made sure we just stayed to the same-
- 59:10 – 1:32:14
Nutrition, recovery, and strength training philosophies—plus Volk’s pace as a weapon
- JRJoe Rogan
Craig, when you compare like the way someone has to prepare when they're a professional grappler like yourself, versus someone who's doing all these different disciplines smashed in together in MMA, do you look at it and go, "Fuck that." (laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
Well, I'm just listening to the, the professionalism of his camps and stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Amazing, right?
- CJCraig Jones
And me, man, I'm eating shit food, I'm winging it, you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Fucking really?
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Takeaway 24/7-
- CJCraig Jones
I don't-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
... this bloke, I'm telling you.
- CJCraig Jones
I don't stretch, I don't warm up.
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't stretch or warm up?
- CJCraig Jones
No, nothing. Just get straight into it.
- JRJoe Rogan
How old are you now?
- CJCraig Jones
29.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, when you get to be like 34, you're probably gonna be like, "You know what, man?"
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
"Gonna start stretching."
- CJCraig Jones
I'll just pick an easy round, you know, if we're gonna go... Like, I'll be like, "That guy's not gonna injure me." You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- CJCraig Jones
I'll be like, "I'll slow it down," but the second round will be good.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's crazy. You don't warm up at all?
- CJCraig Jones
Not at all, no. Or sometimes I'll drill-
- AVAlex Volkanovski
Surely that's gonna change soon, man.
- CJCraig Jones
(laughs) I'll drill, I'll use the-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- AVAlex Volkanovski
You can't do that forever. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I know. Talk... Listen, you're talking to a world champion professional.
- AVAlex Volkanovski
(laughs) You fucking stretch, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Motherfucker's got everything dialed in.
- CJCraig Jones
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Listen to him, he's your friend.
Episode duration: 2:58:49
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode H1Lg6MDaEjg
