JRE MMA Show #112 with Don Frye

Don Frye 0:00 (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

Joe Rogan 0:04 The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) Don Frye, it's a goddamn honor and a pleasure.

Don Frye 0:17 Hey, partner. Thank you. Uh, you know, like I said earlier, first time, first and only time we met, I insulted you. It was-

Joe Rogan 0:24 I don't remember that.

Don Frye 0:25 It was down there in Alabama, right?

Joe Rogan 0:28 (laughs) Those are early days, right?

Don Frye 0:29 Yeah, number 12.

Joe Rogan 0:30 Oh, UFC 12. That was my first one.

Don Frye 0:33 Yeah. And-

Joe Rogan 0:33 What'd you say?

Don Frye 0:34 Well, we were backstage, and, you know, they introduced us, and I says, you know, "Do you know who this guy is?" They said, and I says, "Yeah, he, he plays that real dumb guy on, (laughs) on the news radio show." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:46 (laughs)

Don Frye 0:46 And you looked so-

Joe Rogan 0:46 But that's not an insult.

Don Frye 0:48 ... and you looked so hurt. Then I find out-

Joe Rogan 0:50 (laughs)

Don Frye 0:51 ... I find out, you know, your character's really actually part of who you are, and (laughs) ...

Joe Rogan 0:55 That's part of the problem. It's very, it was very close to who I am, unfortunately. (laughs)

Don Frye 0:59 All right, fine. I've been watching your dr- ... And you're a smart bastard, man. I'm impressed.

Joe Rogan 1:03 I have a good memory. I'm not that smart-

Don Frye 1:05 No, you ...

Joe Rogan 1:05 ... but I have a good memory.

Don Frye 1:06 You know what the hell's going on in a lot of the stuff, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:08 I know what some things, some things.

Don Frye 1:10 The Bob Lazar stuff? I mean, that's impressive.

Joe Rogan 1:13 Oh, yeah. Are you interested in UFOs?

Don Frye 1:14 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:16 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16 A lot of folks in Arizona are interested in UFOs.

Don Frye 1:18 There's a lot of that.

Joe Rogan 1:18 They visit there quite a bit-

Don Frye 1:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19 ... it seems like.

Don Frye 1:20 Yeah, there's a ... The house that I have, um, it was built ... I guess the guy who built it, um, built it so his wife could watch the UFOs (laughs) over at the mountain there.

Joe Rogan 1:34 Wow, that's a high maintenance lady.

Don Frye 1:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:36 (laughs)

Don Frye 1:36 Yeah. Well, they all are, aren't they?

Joe Rogan 1:39 (laughs) But imagine that. "What, what kind of house you want, honey?" "I want a house where I watch UFOs."

Don Frye 1:43 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:43 "I need an observation deck."

Don Frye 1:46 That's basically it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:47 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 1:47 It was, it was like a bunker. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:49 Was it?

Don Frye 1:50 Yeah. Half of it's in the ground, and then half's ... And then all the block, you know, you got the big 16 by 8 block, and they're all filled with cement, so like-

Joe Rogan 1:58 Oh, there's a lot of weird houses like that. There's a house for sale in Arizona right now, it used to be Steven Seagal's house. It might still be his house. He's selling it. But it's bulletproof. It's got bulletproof glass. It's like a compound.

Don Frye 2:09 That guy's a goof.

Joe Rogan 2:10 (laughs) He's a silly man.

Don Frye 2:11 He's a fucking goof.

Joe Rogan 2:12 (laughs)

Don Frye 2:13 Beyond silly.

Joe Rogan 2:14 He's a silly man.

Don Frye 2:15 I mean, he believes that shit, you know, who he is, you know.

Joe Rogan 2:17 I don't know what he believes and what he's just bullshitting. It's hard to tell, you know?

Don Frye 2:21 Oh, you can't bullshit that good.

Joe Rogan 2:23 (laughs)

Don Frye 2:23 I mean, he's a lousy actor. He's, he's a lousy actor. How the hell can you pretend to be that, you know? Hey.

Joe Rogan 2:31 I mean, that's his hustle, right? His hustle is that he's this like, uh, martial arts guy. But y- you know, he's really good at Aikido.

Don Frye 2:38 (laughs) I'm sure, I'm sure.

Joe Rogan 2:40 You watch those demonstrations.

Don Frye 2:41 (laughs) Uh, you know, what, if I get a couple pro wrestlers-

Joe Rogan 2:46 (laughs)

Don Frye 2:46 ... to be, to be my, my ukes, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:50 Yeah.

Don Frye 2:50 They make me look like a million dollars sure as shit.

Joe Rogan 2:52 That's true. That is, that is what happens, right? They're all compliant.

Don Frye 2:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 2:56 Don, how did you ... When, when did you ... You f- you started out, it was like UFC 8, was that your first fight?

Don Frye 3:01 Y- n- no, it was first in the UFC. I'd fought before.

Joe Rogan 3:05 You had the first in the UFC.

Don Frye 3:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:05 You fought boxing and kickboxing before that, right?

Don Frye 3:07 No kickboxing.

Joe Rogan 3:08 Oh, no kickboxing.

Don Frye 3:08 I did boxing. Um, think I had eight fights, and, um, I think I was two and six, or two, five, and one, I don't know, because I fought my first two with Don Frye, and I won those. And then I had an argument with my trainer, and so we split. And then, so then I fought under J.R. Frye.

Joe Rogan 3:36 Why'd you change your name?

Don Frye 3:37 Well, that was my name growing up. I was junior, so J.R.

Joe Rogan 3:40 Oh.

Don Frye 3:40 And that's how I was in, you know, junior high, high school. And then, um, you know, when my dad and mom called me. And then I think I changed my name because of, uh, contractual r- you know, things.

Joe Rogan 3:54 Oh, you had some deal with the manager where you had to-

Don Frye 3:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:57 Yeah.

Don Frye 3:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 3:58 There's a lot of those sneaky deals, huh?

Don Frye 4:00 Yeah, but, um, that was more with the trainer. And, you know, I don't know if that was ... 'Cause they were really good guys. Uh, Art Martori was my money guy, who ... You know, they, they ... the two Munos, Mike Munos and his father Al brought me to, to Art. Art wrestled at ASU back in the late '60s. And Art, uh, he's a billionaire, you know. And so he was in- interested in ... I mean, he, he basically funds ASU wrestling.

Joe Rogan 4:30 Oh, really?

Don Frye 4:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:31 Oh, that's nice.

Don Frye 4:32 Out of his pocket, yeah. And he's done so much for amateur wrestling in the US. I mean, he's like the top dog, 'cause, um, he, uh, he used to have what's called SunKist Wrestling team.

Joe Rogan 4:45 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 4:46 And, uh, so that was his baby, and he steamrolled that. And, um, then like I said, uh, the Munos brothers, or Mike and his dad took me to Art. Art said, "All right. Let's give it a shot." After he called, um, jeez, the coach at Okie State, um, Joe Saygh, to double up ... double check on me, you know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:14 Mm-hmm. So did y- you started out wrestling ... Did you wrestle as a young boy?

Don Frye 5:19 No, sir. No, sir.

Joe Rogan 5:20 When did you start wrestling?

Don Frye 5:21 Uh, as a freshman in high school.

Joe Rogan 5:24 And then when did you box?

Don Frye 5:26 Uh, when I got outta college.

Joe Rogan 5:29 Oh, so a- most of it was, you know ... That's fairly late in life to box, right?

Don Frye 5:34 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's why I was two and six. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:38 (laughs) So when did you hear about the UFC?

Don Frye 5:42 Um, I was a fireman, you know. I just did the boxing, and then got out, and did ... started doing odd jobs for, you know, a year, year and a half. And, uh, then my wife at that time, we had a couple horses, you know. And being a college wrestler, y- you got a bit of an ego when you ... So I look at it, "Well, hell, I can do that." So, uh, started going around with a farrier named Stoney Leufeg, and then Stoney got me interested. Then I, um ...... got tired of that. It wasn't really making any good money, but, you know, for the time, he was giving me five bucks a horse. You know, teach me, you know, pull the shoes, um, shape the shoe, you know, and all that good stuff. Well, he, he did the technical work on the hooves. And then, um, I said, y- you know, somebody told me about being a fireman, about, you know, working 10 days a month, you know, and have a rest on Sunday.

Joe Rogan 6:45 Right.

Don Frye 6:45 I said, "Well, hell, that's the job for me," you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 6:49 (laughs)

Don Frye 6:49 10 days a month, I can do that.

Joe Rogan 6:50 You're doing the 24-hour shifts?

Don Frye 6:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:52 Where you just stay there at the firehouse? Yeah.

Don Frye 6:54 Yeah. So I got on the phone, called up all the cities in the State of Arizona. Nobody was hiring, so I called up Santa Fe, New Mexico. They said, "Yeah, we're gonna run a test." And so I went over there and tested and passed the test, and then went to, uh, my buddy, Jerry Peckenpaugh. He's the one who got me into wrestling, um, when I was in high school. Can I borrow your lighter, please?

Joe Rogan 7:20 Yeah. There you go. There you go. I'll leave that over there for you.

Don Frye 7:28 Thank you, sir. Bring it up, man. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 7:31 (laughs)

Don Frye 7:32 And, um, so then I went and stayed at Jerry's house in Santa Fe, and I went through their... I think it was, like, a six-month or, or more, um, academy, you know.

Joe Rogan 7:47 In the fire department?

Don Frye 7:48 Yeah, in the fire department.

Joe Rogan 7:49 Really, six months?

Don Frye 7:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:50 Wow.

Don Frye 7:50 It was a hell of an academy. It really was.

Joe Rogan 7:53 And so from there, you thought about fighting?

Don Frye 7:56 Hmm, no, I had already fought.

Joe Rogan 7:58 No, but I mean in the UFC.

Don Frye 7:59 Oh, no, um, from there, we were there a year, year and a half. Couldn't afford to live there, you know. You know, in Santa Fe, you're either real rich or real poor.

Joe Rogan 8:09 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 8:09 You know, this was 30 years ago, so.

Joe Rogan 8:11 Right.

Don Frye 8:12 I don't know how it is now, but, um...

Joe Rogan 8:15 Probably similar.

Don Frye 8:16 Probably. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:17 Yeah.

Don Frye 8:17 Like the whole country now, right? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:18 Yeah. It's supposed to be nice, though, Santa Fe.

Don Frye 8:20 Oh, beautiful.

Joe Rogan 8:20 A lot of- a lot of friends from there.

Don Frye 8:22 Beautiful.

Joe Rogan 8:22 Yeah.

Don Frye 8:23 You never been?

Joe Rogan 8:24 No, never been.

Don Frye 8:24 Oh, you gotta go, Joe.

Joe Rogan 8:25 I don't even think I've been in New Mexico except driving through once.

Don Frye 8:27 Really?

Joe Rogan 8:28 Yeah.

Don Frye 8:28 Where'd you dr- where'd you drive through at?

Joe Rogan 8:30 I was a kid. I don't remember it.

Don Frye 8:32 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:33 Yeah.

Don Frye 8:33 You didn't... Obviously, you haven't gotten to see, uh, Jon Jones in there. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 8:38 No, no, Jackson Winkeljohn. I wanna go down there and check out the gym, though.

Don Frye 8:42 How come you haven't?

Joe Rogan 8:43 Jus- just a busy man, Don Frye, just a busy man.

Don Frye 8:46 I guess.

Joe Rogan 8:46 There's a lot of places I wanna go.

Don Frye 8:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:48 Never been to North Dakota either.

Don Frye 8:50 (snorts) I have.

Joe Rogan 8:51 I bet you have.

Don Frye 8:52 Yeah, it's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 8:53 Yeah.

Don Frye 8:54 It's beautiful. I gu-

Joe Rogan 8:54 I don't know why I said North Dakota.

Don Frye 8:55 I saw the- I saw the lights-

Joe Rogan 8:57 A few states.

Don Frye 8:57 ... man, that was cool.

Joe Rogan 8:58 Oh, the northern lights?

Don Frye 8:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:00 Ah, I want to see that.

Don Frye 9:01 Oh, they're just so cool, man.

Joe Rogan 9:02 Yeah, that's pretty wild.

Don Frye 9:03 Yeah, I did that, um, shit, after I had my first neck surgery back in 2000, a buddy, me and a couple buddies, went, uh, and did the Amsterdam thing, you know.

Joe Rogan 9:17 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 9:17 And that was real cool. We saw the lights up there.

Joe Rogan 9:20 What'd you have done on your neck? Did you have it fused?

Don Frye 9:22 Yeah, they f- I had broken it, uh, doing pro wrestling, and worked on it for a year and a half not knowing, you know.

Joe Rogan 9:29 Oh, Jesus.

Don Frye 9:30 Yeah. And, but I'd lost so much muscle in the- in the right arm, you know, and, um, so they fixed it, and I had a really nice, um... I can't remember her name, and I'm talking a lot. I never talk this much.

Joe Rogan 9:49 (laughs) That's what a podcast is all about.

Don Frye 9:51 Joe, I don't talk this much in, in a month, man.

Joe Rogan 9:53 Well, we could take breaks. (laughs)

Don Frye 9:56 You done a hell of a... Must- must be all the... Must've got the right combination of pain pills today to win. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:03 So, um, out of all the injuries that you ever got in your fighting career, was the pro wrestling injuries the worst?

Don Frye 10:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:11 Yeah. Pro wrestling is probably one of the hardest things that a guy can do athletically.

Don Frye 10:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:16 'Cause those guys do it every fucking night. All the guys that I've had in here, you know, the Undertaker, uh, Diamond Dallas Page, all- all these guys, like, every one of 'em, when they tell you their stories, you go, "Jesus Christ." Jake the Snake. Those guys are so banged up.

Don Frye 10:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:33 I'm trying to get Ric Flair. Whoa!

Don Frye 10:35 Oh, I love Ric. I love Ric. Man, he's so funny.

Joe Rogan 10:37 Working on it, Ric?

Don Frye 10:38 Yeah, he's so funny.

Joe Rogan 10:39 Yeah. Oh, he's a goddamn legend. Um, so when you- when you first heard about the UFC, so you were a firefighter then or-

Don Frye 10:47 Mm... well...

Joe Rogan 10:48 ... or you had been?

Don Frye 10:49 Going back to the- back to the... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 10:50 Yeah.

Don Frye 10:51 You know, like I said, we were in Santa Fe for a year, year and a half, and then couldn't afford to live there, and, uh, so I got on the phone and said, "Well, shit." You know, we still had horses and still paying the farrier, so I said, "Well, shit, I can do that." So I found Oklahoma Horseshoeing School in Okie City, and so I moved my wife back home to my parents' house, you know, and I went to Oklahoma Horseshoeing School for their 12-week program.

Joe Rogan 11:24 Oh, wow.

Don Frye 11:25 And so I did that, and then when I came back to, uh, Arizona, Sierra Vista, um, hooked up with a guy named, um... oh, geez, this is gonna... um, Tyler Baysinger. Tyler's a magician as a farrier. Just a magician. And he paid me $5 a horse, you know, and fed me lunch. And, uh... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 11:52 (laughs)

Don Frye 11:52 And, you know, so I was learning how to shoe horses from him, you know, doing apprenticeship, starting my own business. I got on as a firefighter reserve, you know, at a place called Frye Fire Department, you know, F-R-Y. No relation. The old man, uh, had a outpost store outside of Fort Huachuca, you know, 150 years ago, and also a whorehouse, you know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:21 (laughs) This is like old school Western shit.

Don Frye 12:23 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 12:24 Wow.

Don Frye 12:25 And so then I- then I had... Sometime I worked at a, um...... psych facility too, you know. And-

Joe Rogan 12:33 A site facility?

Don Frye 12:34 Psychological, yeah. Uh-

Joe Rogan 12:35 Oh, psychological facility?

Don Frye 12:37 Yeah, uh-huh.

Joe Rogan 12:37 What'd you do there, like restrain patients?

Don Frye 12:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:39 Yeah.

Don Frye 12:41 Uh, and, and-

Joe Rogan 12:41 What's harder, horseshoeing or restraining patients?

Don Frye 12:45 Uh, horseshoeing, I, I broke a kid's arm to, you know, just the headlocks, to the... You know, they, they did a breakout where, you know, 20 or 30 of them run off and then you gotta herd 'em back in and-

Joe Rogan 12:57 Really? (laughs)

Don Frye 12:57 Well, yeah. Uh, a couple of them act out and one of the guys had the kid restrained from... He was... Had him from behind, had his arms pinned. Kid started slamming his head into his face.

Joe Rogan 13:09 Oh, Jesus.

Don Frye 13:09 So I just walked up, did a headlock and we landed, snapped his arm.

Joe Rogan 13:14 Oh, no.

Don Frye 13:15 Yeah, that kinda, kinda put a damper on things. (sighs)

Joe Rogan 13:19 Yeah. Was that the end of your restraining patients?

Don Frye 13:22 Yeah, that was in the (laughs) end of that career.

Joe Rogan 13:25 (laughs)

Don Frye 13:26 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:27 So how does it make its way to the UFC? Do you remember when you found out about the UFC?

Don Frye 13:31 Yeah, then, um... I, I think that was still a year or two before.

Joe Rogan 13:36 So this is like '92, something like that?

Don Frye 13:38 Yeah, yeah. And then, um, I started doing judo, you know, 'cause I needed, you know, uh, I needed something to do, you know?

Joe Rogan 13:46 Right.

Don Frye 13:47 'Cause, uh, y- you know, you, you're 22, 24 years old, you're, you know, used to be a college athlete, you, you know, (laughs) you still walk around with an erection, you know?

Joe Rogan 13:58 Right. I understand.

Don Frye 13:59 And, um, so I started doing judo and advanced really quickly in that. And, um, hell, so then, then we're... I got on with the Bisbee Fire Department in '94 or in '92.

Joe Rogan 14:16 Bisbee, Arizona?

Don Frye 14:17 Yeah, yeah. 1922.

Joe Rogan 14:18 Shout-out to Doug Stanhope. He's the-

Don Frye 14:20 92.

Joe Rogan 14:20 ... King of Bisbee.

Don Frye 14:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:22 That's what I hear.

Don Frye 14:22 I met him one time, yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:23 Did you?

Don Frye 14:24 Yeah, at the, uh, airport.

Joe Rogan 14:26 Oh, yeah?

Don Frye 14:26 Yeah, he says-

Joe Rogan 14:27 (laughs)

Don Frye 14:27 "You're a firefighter." "Yeah, used to be." Shit, this was probably 15, 18 years ago, so... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:32 Oh, wow. (laughs)

Don Frye 14:35 And, um... Yeah, where the hell am I right now?

Joe Rogan 14:39 So you were talking about when you first heard about the UFC.

Don Frye 14:42 I... Yeah, in '92 I got on with the Bisbee Fire.

Joe Rogan 14:45 Right.

Don Frye 14:45 And then we were sitting there watching something on TV and saw Dan, a clip of Dan.

Joe Rogan 14:52 Dan Severn?

Don Frye 14:53 Uh-huh. And, uh, then he was doing some kind of bodyguard work with, um, that gal who works... Who? Oh, fuck me. I'm bad at names sometimes.

Joe Rogan 15:09 That's okay.

Don Frye 15:09 I had a st- I had a stroke, you know, a few years ago.

Joe Rogan 15:11 You did?

Don Frye 15:12 Ha- Hemorrhagic stroke, yeah, after surgery.

Joe Rogan 15:14 Oh, shit.

Don Frye 15:15 So I get lost sometimes. Um, um... Fuck me. You can edit this, right?

Joe Rogan 15:23 Yeah, it doesn't matter anyway.

Don Frye 15:25 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:25 So Dan was doing bodyguard work.

Don Frye 15:27 Yeah, for Robin, the... From, um... Who's a radio guy in New York City?

Joe Rogan 15:32 Robin Quivers?

Don Frye 15:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:33 Howard Stern?

Don Frye 15:34 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 15:34 Oh, really?

Don Frye 15:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:35 No shit?

Don Frye 15:35 And his- and his gray T-shirt, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 15:38 Wow. (laughs)

Don Frye 15:39 Everybody's in suits and Dan's in his gray T-shirt. (laughs) And so, uh, they, you know... Then we saw Dan fight and I called him up, I said, "Fuck," you know. I said, "Dan, this is Don Frye, remember me?" He went, "Yeah. What are you doing, Don?" I says, "Playing fireman, playing horseshoer," you know. I was just-

Joe Rogan 15:55 (laughs)

Don Frye 15:55 "Can..." I said, "This UFC stuff, can you get me in on it?" And he says, "Yeah." So he ended up getting me some fights, probably about five or six fights, you know, around the country. And, uh, you know, the check's still in the mail, you know. (laughs) Um, uh-

Joe Rogan 16:12 Was this pre-UFC?

Don Frye 16:13 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:14 Oh, so you fought MMA before the UFC?

Don Frye 16:16 Oh, it was, it was warehouse fighting.

Joe Rogan 16:19 Yeah.

Don Frye 16:19 You know, it wasn't MMA. It was NHB.

Joe Rogan 16:20 Right, right. So... Right.

Don Frye 16:22 Or, you-

Joe Rogan 16:22 NHB is what they called it back then.

Don Frye 16:24 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:24 Yeah, no holds barred.

Don Frye 16:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 16:25 Right. So you wear shoes, you do whatever you want.

Don Frye 16:27 Yeah, you can do whatever you want.

Joe Rogan 16:27 Was it bare knuckle?

Don Frye 16:29 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:30 In your day, and even into UFC 8, it was... You were still allowed to fight bare knuckle.

Don Frye 16:34 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:34 Yeah.

Don Frye 16:34 But I wore gloves-

Joe Rogan 16:36 Yeah.

Don Frye 16:36 ... 'cause I hit hard.

Joe Rogan 16:37 Yeah.

Don Frye 16:38 You know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:38 Yeah, smart.

Don Frye 16:39 And gloves aren't made to protect your face.

Joe Rogan 16:42 Right.

Don Frye 16:42 They're made to protect my hands, so I hit harder.

Joe Rogan 16:44 Who was the first guy to wear gloves in the UFC?

Don Frye 16:47 Tank.

Joe Rogan 16:47 Was it Tank? Yeah, smart.

Don Frye 16:48 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:49 Smart move.

Don Frye 16:49 He hits hard. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:50 He hits hard, yeah, yeah. Hmm. Holy shit, I remember your fight with Tank.

Don Frye 16:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:56 What a fucking fight that was. My God.

Don Frye 16:59 You know, and it didn't make, uh, top 10 of the one-round fights.

Joe Rogan 17:03 Oh, I don't... I have no idea why it doesn't... Well, it's 'cause there's so many great fights-

Don Frye 17:06 Who...

Joe Rogan 17:06 It's arbitrary who makes top 10, but I think it should've been in there.

Don Frye 17:10 I don't think-

Joe Rogan 17:10 That was a classic.

Don Frye 17:10 Nobody knows. Nobody knows anything about UFC 100 in Be a War, you know?

Joe Rogan 17:15 Oh, I do. I remember all that shit.

Don Frye 17:16 Well, you do, Joe. You're a student and you were there.

Joe Rogan 17:19 I was there.

Don Frye 17:20 But the new fans...

Joe Rogan 17:21 Yeah, they should go back because that's, that's the history of the sport. I always tell people we knew more about martial arts after four years of the UFC than had been done in 400 years.

Don Frye 17:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:34 We knew more. We knew what worked and what didn't work. We, we saw so many different things, so many different things. Like, by the time 97 rolled around, we, they had figured out so... First of all, they realized wrestling is the most important thing.

Don Frye 17:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:47 It's the most important thing.

Don Frye 17:48 Well, it's like-

Joe Rogan 17:49 See, still to this day-

Don Frye 17:49 ... it's like a street fight.

Joe Rogan 17:50 Yep.

Don Frye 17:50 Two and a half hours every day, you know?

Joe Rogan 17:52 Right.

Don Frye 17:53 It really is.

Joe Rogan 17:53 It is, yeah. And it's just the, the ability to take a guy down. If you look at, um... Somebody posted it. It might've been Adam Hunter on his page, I think it was, on his Instagram page. He posted, uh, the amount of champions per discipline, you know. It showed like, uh, jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, all the different... And then wrestling is number one.

Don Frye 18:13 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 18:14 Number one out of all the-

Don Frye 18:15 Right.

Joe Rogan 18:15 ... all the different disciplines, that's the most important discipline.

Don Frye 18:18 Well, it's the hardest thing to do 'cause-

Joe Rogan 18:21 Yep.

Don Frye 18:21 ... there, there's... I mean, you're doing it every day in high school, every day in college, and there's no excuses, you know?

Joe Rogan 18:28 Yep.

Don Frye 18:29 Um...

Joe Rogan 18:29 And the most mentally tough too.

Don Frye 18:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:31 Because first of all, they're cutting weight, they're cutting weight the day of the event.

Don Frye 18:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 18:34 They're competing dehydrated and exhausted. And wrestlers, amongst all athletes that I've ever met, take pride in being miserable.

Don Frye 18:43 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:43 They really do. Yeah, here it is. It is Adam, Adam Hunter put it up there. Look at that, 28 professional champions from wrestling. The second place is Brazilian jiu-jitsu, the third place is boxing, and then kickboxing below that, Muay Thai, and then two, TaeKwonDo and one karate.

Don Frye 18:59 (clears throat)

Joe Rogan 18:59 It's amazing.

Don Frye 19:00 All right, but... All right, but the jiu-jitsu...... how, how many of those champions were in the first few years? I mean, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 19:08 Right, right.

Don Frye 19:09 ... excuse me. As soon as we figured it out, boom.

Joe Rogan 19:12 Well, now everybody does everything.

Don Frye 19:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:14 But if, I still think that base is the most important base-

Don Frye 19:18 In wrestling.

Joe Rogan 19:18 ... the wrestling base.

Don Frye 19:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:19 Because a dominant wrestler, a guy like a Daniel Cormier, uh, a guy like a Jon Jones, a guy who's an elite wrestler, they have that advantage over everybody. If shit gets weird, they can take the guy down-

Don Frye 19:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:29 ... at any time.

Don Frye 19:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:30 Or if they just decide to impose their will, they can take the guy down. Or if you want to take them down because they're striking, they're out-striking you, you can't, 'cause they're wrestling so good.

Don Frye 19:38 Right, yeah. They sprawl. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:38 It's just such a, it's such a giant advantage.

Don Frye 19:40 Sprawl and snap your head into the mat. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 19:43 Yeah. But you were one of the first guys to enter the UFC that had w- y- that looked like real polished skills. When you came out-

Don Frye 19:51 Thank you.

Joe Rogan 19:52 ... guns blazing, you won your first fight by first round knockout. And I remember watching on TV, I'm like, "That motherfucker can fight."

Don Frye 19:58 Oh, huh, thank you.

Joe Rogan 19:58 Like, 'cause you're seeing people that... A lot of times you're seeing folks that probably shouldn't have been there.

Don Frye 20:03 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:04 Like, there was, back in the day, like, you remember the early days, there was guys that were, like, they trained in ninjitsu-

Don Frye 20:09 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:10 ... and they were, they were practicing, like, karate chopping people in the top of the heads.

Don Frye 20:13 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:13 And all kinds of wacky shit.

Don Frye 20:14 Shit you never heard of, right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:16 Yeah. But when I saw you, I was like, "Okay, that g- that guy's an actual fighter." And when you see the way you were throwing punches, and your, your wrestling ability, and your s-... And you were a good size, too. You weren't too big, you weren't too small.

Don Frye 20:27 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:27 You probably weighed like, what, 210? Something like that?

Don Frye 20:29 Yeah, I was at 05, 205.

Joe Rogan 20:31 205?

Don Frye 20:31 But I said 210 'cause-

Joe Rogan 20:33 Sounded better?

Don Frye 20:34 You know... Well, I knew I was gonna gain weight through that year, you know?

Joe Rogan 20:38 Yeah.

Don Frye 20:38 Because-

Joe Rogan 20:38 That was the plan?

Don Frye 20:39 Yeah. I was a fireman and I was shoeing horses in Arizona. You know, you're working six, seven days a week, you know. And, and I knew as soon as I gave it up, (laughs) you know-

Joe Rogan 20:50 Right.

Don Frye 20:50 ... pa- 10 pounds was gonna come on real fast.

Joe Rogan 20:52 Right, right. And everybody was chasing... That was when Mark Coleman and... UFC 12 was when Mark Coleman became the champion when he beat Da- uh, Dan-

Don Frye 21:00 Dan.

Joe Rogan 21:00 ... Severn. Right. And Mark was 265 pounds.

Don Frye 21:05 He was a monster.

Joe Rogan 21:06 He was a fucking gorilla.

Don Frye 21:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:08 Like, people forget. He had everybody gaining weight.

Don Frye 21:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:12 Everybody gained weight when they saw the Hammer. They're like, "Fuck."

Don Frye 21:15 They got no choice, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:16 Yeah, you had to. The... He shot that power double. And that was the headbutt days, too.

Don Frye 21:19 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:20 The, the... When Mark would get on top of you and, and get control of you and start smashing his head into your face, those were quick nights.

Don Frye 21:26 It wasn't fun, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:27 No.

Don Frye 21:27 Because, um, Dan started that, and then I did it, and then Mark did it.

Joe Rogan 21:32 Yup.

Don Frye 21:32 You know. And somehow Mark became the grandfather of it, so I guess I'm a great-grandfather-

Joe Rogan 21:37 (laughs)

Don Frye 21:37 ... and Dan's great-great-grandfather, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:39 Of ground-and-pound, yeah.

Don Frye 21:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:41 Yeah. It was, uh, it was a real wake-up call for a lot of people. But so was the jujitsu, right? When Royce Gracie tapped Dan Severn, that was a wake-up call-

Don Frye 21:48 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:49 ... for a lot of people. Like, "How the fuck is he doing that? Off his back?"

Don Frye 21:52 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:52 "With his legs?"

Don Frye 21:54 That was... That... The, the Gracies, they changed martial arts-

Joe Rogan 21:58 Changed it.

Don Frye 21:59 ... the world over.

Joe Rogan 22:00 Yup.

Don Frye 22:00 You know?

Joe Rogan 22:00 Yeah. I think they're the most important family in the history of, of all martial arts.

Don Frye 22:04 Yeah. I mean, that was their plan, you know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:07 Yeah, and they did it.

Don Frye 22:07 And it was a great plan. The whole thing, what was brilliant about it, it was like a paid infomercial-

Joe Rogan 22:15 Yeah, it was.

Don Frye 22:15 ... that you paid for.

Joe Rogan 22:16 Yup.

Don Frye 22:17 You know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:18 Right, right.

Don Frye 22:18 You paid $20, you know. (laughs) You laugh at it now. Back then, 20 bucks was a lot of money. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:25 Yeah.

Don Frye 22:25 But, you know, you paid $20 to sit there and watch an infomercial, but it was brilliant, brilliant.

Joe Rogan 22:31 Yeah.

Don Frye 22:32 So exciting.

Joe Rogan 22:32 When you had your first fight, you had your first fight in the UFC, once it was over, once you won, were you like, "Okay, this is what I'm doing now?"

Don Frye 22:39 Yeah. Yeah. I won, I won that and I'm like, "You know, I love this. This is fun. Back to being competitive," you know. Um, 'cause my, my athletic career was like this, you know? It really was, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 22:56 Ups and downs?

Don Frye 22:57 Yeah. You know, I'd, I'd get burnt out and walk away, you know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:01 Right, right.

Don Frye 23:02 And, um, yeah, real short attention span, I guess, you know?

Joe Rogan 23:05 But when you saw what the UFC was, where you could take guys down or you could stand up and then strike, it was, it was such a unique thing. That just appealed to you?

Don Frye 23:14 Yeah, 'cause I wasn't afraid to get punched in the face.

Joe Rogan 23:16 Right. (laughs)

Don Frye 23:17 You know?

Joe Rogan 23:18 That helps. (laughs)

Don Frye 23:18 Yeah, it does. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:20 For sure.

Don Frye 23:21 And, and, you know, because there's a, a lot of wrestlers th- that they go in there and then bam, you get hit in the bridge of the nose, it changes your opinion real fast, it really does, Joe.

Joe Rogan 23:32 (laughs) Yeah, your eyes water up.

Don Frye 23:33 You've been punched, yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:33 It's a uncomfortable feeling.

Don Frye 23:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:35 Now, did you think at that point in time that this was something that you, that this was gonna be a real sport? Because a lot of people weren't sure if it was gonna last back then.

Don Frye 23:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:43 Like, UFC 8, when you, you entered, it was like, it was still kinda crazy. It was... When I came around was UFC 12, and they were banned from, uh, pay-per-view on, uh, everything except DirecTV.

Don Frye 23:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:55 DirecTV was the only people that had them on. You couldn't get it on cable anymore, because, uh, boxing was in cahoots with John McCain and-

Don Frye 24:01 Yeah, piece of shit.

Joe Rogan 24:01 ... Budweiser and all that stuff, and they were... Yeah.

Don Frye 24:04 That guy is dirty.

Joe Rogan 24:05 Was he dirty?

Don Frye 24:06 Oh, f-... Yeah, he was dirty, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:08 Dang.

Don Frye 24:08 Yeah, I mean-

Joe Rogan 24:09 Well, he's gone now. Rest in peace.

Don Frye 24:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:11 (laughs)

Don Frye 24:11 He, um... Y- you know, he, he was a paid boxing advisor to Don King. You know, the guy didn't know what the fuck he was-

Joe Rogan 24:20 Oh.

Don Frye 24:20 ... doing, you know. You know? So when this came around, it was beaten boxing, like you said.

Joe Rogan 24:26 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 24:27 And so Don King said, "Hey, put the boots to this," you know?

Joe Rogan 24:30 Yup. That's what happened.

Don Frye 24:31 I mean, his wife, you know, was the head of Henly Distributing, you know. Henly Beer.

Joe Rogan 24:37 Really?

Don Frye 24:37 Budweiser beer, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:39 Oh, that makes sense. But I, but I knew he did something with Budweiser and that had a big impact on his-

Don Frye 24:45 Yeah, well, he married a Budweiser, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:47 Yeah. That had a big impact on how the UFC was, uh, whether, whether or not it was legal, because they started banning it from everywhere.

Don Frye 24:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:54 And-

Don Frye 24:54 That wa- that was the big joke, is, um-

Joe Rogan 24:57 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 24:57 ... after the fights, you can go to the hospital or you can go to the after-party. But number three is you can go to jail, too, you know.

Joe Rogan 25:05 Right, yeah.

Don Frye 25:06 'Cause we didn't know. We didn't know if we were gonna come out and get slapped in cuffs-

Joe Rogan 25:10 Right.

Don Frye 25:10 ... and hauled away, you know, or they were gonna let us finish the event and then arrest everybody.

Joe Rogan 25:15 Do you remember when Dan, Dan fought Ken Shamrock? I think it was in Denver, and they told him they couldn't h- punch his face-

Don Frye 25:23 Castor oil?

Joe Rogan 25:23 ... and closed fists?There was a, some kind of crazy law where they couldn't punch with-

Don Frye 25:28 No, that was Detroit.

Joe Rogan 25:29 Was it Detroit?

Don Frye 25:30 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 25:30 It was in Michigan?

Don Frye 25:31 UFC, UFC 9, yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:33 Oh, okay. When ... And everybody was going, "What the fuck is going on?" Like, they were told before the event that they can't punch with closed fists.

Don Frye 25:40 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 25:41 There were so many crazy rules like that. When I st- when I ... The first event I did was supposed to be in New York. It was supposed to be ... I think it was supposed to be in Albany. Albany or Buffalo? Na- ... I think Albany.

Don Frye 25:49 Buffalo.

Joe Rogan 25:50 Was it Buffalo?

Don Frye 25:51 Yeah, maybe Albany. Yeah, yeah, maybe. I'm not 100% sure.

Joe Rogan 25:52 But it was Upstate New York somewhere and then it got moved last minute Dothan, Alabama.

Don Frye 25:56 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 25:56 And that's where I met you.

Don Frye 25:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:58 Yeah. That was UFC 12. That's when Vitor made his debut, fought, uh, Trey Tellemann and, uh, that was, uh, that was when Mark Coleman fought, uh, Dan. That was, uh ... There was a lot of great fights on that card.

Don Frye 26:10 Yo, Trey Tellemann was tough. I mean, just-

Joe Rogan 26:12 Fuck yeah.

Don Frye 26:12 Did not ... To be missing a breast, you know? God dang.

Joe Rogan 26:15 Yeah. One, missing one pack, built like a tank.

Don Frye 26:18 A pack, yet breast, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:19 Yeah, a breast. (laughs)

Don Frye 26:19 Yeah. (laughs) Sorry, Trey.

Joe Rogan 26:21 Sco- ... And he fought Scott Ferozo too.

Don Frye 26:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:23 That was a tournament that night. Vitor won the tournament, 19 years old.

Don Frye 26:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:26 Yeah.

Don Frye 26:26 That was amazing.

Joe Rogan 26:27 Lightning bolt, that guy was.

Don Frye 26:29 He was amazing. He was just-

Joe Rogan 26:30 You believe he's gonna fight Oscar De La Hoya?

Don Frye 26:32 Really?

Joe Rogan 26:33 Yeah. He's gonna have a boxing match September 11th with Oscar De La Hoya.

Don Frye 26:37 Oh.

Joe Rogan 26:37 You gotta think, that guy was fighting ... I mean, well, so was Oscar. I mean, Oscar was a world champion in '97. And here it is, 97, and Vitor makes his Octagon debut-

Don Frye 26:49 Was he born?

Joe Rogan 26:49 What's that?

Don Frye 26:49 Was he even born in '97? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:51 Oscar?

Don Frye 26:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:52 Oscar's in his 40s.

Don Frye 26:52 No, no, uh-

Joe Rogan 26:54 Vitor?

Don Frye 26:54 ... Vitor.

Joe Rogan 26:54 Yeah. Vitor was 19 then. Yeah. So Oscar's a little older than Vitor, I believe. I believe Oscar's, like, 48 or something like that. It's crazy seeing these guys still getting after it, after all these years.

Don Frye 27:09 I'd like to.

Joe Rogan 27:11 You'd like to?

Don Frye 27:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:12 If your body would hold up?

Don Frye 27:13 I'm gonna go down there to Columbia and do the bioxcellerator.

Joe Rogan 27:17 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 27:17 You know, and, um, the plan on that is do that and hopefully, you know, make, make a comeback, you know?

Joe Rogan 27:25 Really?

Don Frye 27:26 Shit, yeah, Joe.

Joe Rogan 27:28 (laughs) I love it.

Don Frye 27:29 Shit, yeah. I mean, I'd love to fight Ngannou.

Joe Rogan 27:33 Ngannou?

Don Frye 27:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:34 Really?

Don Frye 27:34 Yeah. He's amazing, yeah. With the-

Joe Rogan 27:37 Wouldn't it ... Wouldn't it be better to fight someone your age?

Don Frye 27:40 Why?

Joe Rogan 27:40 Uh-

Don Frye 27:41 They don't, they don't have the belt, do they? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:42 No. So you'd want to fight someone with the belt, even-

Don Frye 27:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:45 ... even at your age?

Don Frye 27:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:46 That's why you're Don Frye.

Don Frye 27:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:48 'Cause you think like that. Yeah.

Don Frye 27:50 If I could get my back fixed up, I'm there, buddy.

Joe Rogan 27:52 W- uh, what's going on with your back right now?

Don Frye 27:55 Um ... Hell, I've had, uh, probably five maj- ... five or six major back surgeries and then, probably, related, 15 to 20 related, you know, 'cause infections-

Joe Rogan 28:10 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 28:10 ... and things like that.

Joe Rogan 28:11 Jesus.

Don Frye 28:12 And, uh, (laughs) yeah. And the infections tried to get me a couple of times and-

Joe Rogan 28:17 Staph? MRSA?

Don Frye 28:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:19 Sure about-

Don Frye 28:19 Staph.

Joe Rogan 28:20 Yeah.

Don Frye 28:20 Staph.

Joe Rogan 28:20 Scary shit.

Don Frye 28:20 I had one, one time I had it inside the spinal cord.

Joe Rogan 28:25 (inhales deeply)

Don Frye 28:25 You know, in the-

Joe Rogan 28:27 Ooh.

Don Frye 28:27 Or twice, actually. Twice. And the damn-

Joe Rogan 28:29 Is this your back?

Don Frye 28:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:31 Jesus Christ, Don. That looks like a rollercoaster ride.

Don Frye 28:35 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 28:35 How many discs do you have fused?

Don Frye 28:37 Uh, I don't know if it's 11 discs or 11, um, um, vertebrae, you know? Uh-

Joe Rogan 28:45 How many vertebrae does a human have?

Don Frye 28:48 About- 20 some. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 28:50 So you got ... Half of them are fused.

Don Frye 28:51 It's not that big of a deal, but, uh-

Joe Rogan 28:53 Wow. Give me some pictures. Let me see these. Look, look at that lower left. Oh, Jesus Christ. Look at that lower left one of your back. Holy fuck, Don.

Don Frye 29:01 Yeah, it's ... Yeah, gonna put a zipper on it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:04 Jesus Christ. That is crazy. So they just went in and did the whole back all at once.

Don Frye 29:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:11 That's some Wolverine shit.

Don Frye 29:12 No. No. What happened is, um-

Joe Rogan 29:15 Whoa.

Don Frye 29:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:15 Oh, so that's the infection?

Don Frye 29:17 N- n-

Joe Rogan 29:18 Is that why you have the pu-

Don Frye 29:19 That was after the infection, yeah. The- They're draining it and they had to leave it open for a week, um-

Joe Rogan 29:24 Oh, boy.

Don Frye 29:24 ... so that they ... the plastic surgeon could figure out how to connect it, 'cause I was out, uh, out of connective tissue. Uh, it was all scar tissue, so-

Joe Rogan 29:35 Oh my God.

Don Frye 29:35 ... he left it open for a week. He had to cut it, pull, cut it, pull, cut it, pull, you know?

Joe Rogan 29:40 (exhales deeply) Wow. That is wild. So is this mostly from pro wrestling or is it from everything?

Don Frye 29:49 Uh, I would say everything. I mean, you know, as a fireman, as a horse shoer, you know?

Joe Rogan 29:54 Ja- ... Go back, go back three pictures. The o- the one that shows the neck and the back. That one. Look at that.

Don Frye 30:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:00 So you got a few that are just hanging in there and then-

Don Frye 30:03 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:04 ... you got your, your neck fused. That is goddamn wild.

Don Frye 30:07 Well, that's ... It goes all the way down to the crack of my ass, you know. My-

Joe Rogan 30:10 Ooh.

Don Frye 30:10 ... ass crack goes from my balls up to my shoulder blades, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:14 Wow. That is crazy. So it's just all scar tissue in there, and, and bolts and screws and plates and-

Don Frye 30:21 Yeah. So if I can go down there to Columbia and get, you know, the stem cell ...

Joe Rogan 30:26 You might have to live there for a few years.

Don Frye 30:28 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:28 Just have them shoot you up every day.

Don Frye 30:30 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:30 Who knows? I'm ... You know, I'm a, I'm a big fan of, uh, stem cells. They can do some wild shit down there.

Don Frye 30:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:36 I know a lot of guys who've gone to that bioxcellerator thing and, uh, that, that facility down there and had a, a l- ... a really good result.

Don Frye 30:43 Yeah. I'm excited about it, you know. Look at me, I'm giddy. I can hardly sit still.

Joe Rogan 30:46 Have you had any stem cells before?

Don Frye 30:48 No, sir.

Joe Rogan 30:49 Yeah, it's-

Don Frye 30:49 No, sir.

Joe Rogan 30:50 It's ... They can do amazing stuff, but, you know, that's a lot of muscle. There's a lot going on there.

Don Frye 30:54 Yeah. You know, and they're gonna do my shoulders too, 'cause-

Joe Rogan 30:57 Yeah.

Don Frye 30:57 ... I have, um, partial replacements in my shoulders.

Joe Rogan 31:01 What do you ... What do you got going on there? Like, resurfaced?

Don Frye 31:04 Uh, no, just worn out, you know.

Joe Rogan 31:06 You said partial replacements? Like-

Don Frye 31:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:08 Did th- did they resurface the shoulders? Is that what they did?

Don Frye 31:10 Yes, sir. Yes, they just, you know, um, cut the end off, you know, and then stuck the one thing and just, uh, with a knob, and then the other side is all natural bone, you know.

Joe Rogan 31:22 Right, yeah.

Don Frye 31:23 Because they said if they do a full replacement, you can't use them. They're no good, so ...

Joe Rogan 31:28 Oh, really?

Don Frye 31:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:29 You can't put stress on them?

Don Frye 31:30 Yeah, so I said, "The hell with that." I wanna, you know, I wanna do something.

Joe Rogan 31:33 Right. Are you able to work out now?

Don Frye 31:36 Not yet.

Joe Rogan 31:37 No?

Don Frye 31:37 Um, I just had this done, uh-... this right one was done in '17, I think, December '17. This one just got done last December.

Joe Rogan 31:52 When'd you get your first surgery after fighting? How many years in were you?

Don Frye 31:57 After fighting?

Joe Rogan 31:58 Like, you mean during fighting, during your career.

Don Frye 32:00 Oh, during fighting.

Joe Rogan 32:01 Yeah.

Don Frye 32:04 Well...

Joe Rogan 32:05 'Cause everybody's had a surgery.

Don Frye 32:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 32:06 I mean, I've never met a single fighter... May- maybe I have and I forgot, but most fighters that I know has had something blow out.

Don Frye 32:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 32:13 You know?

Don Frye 32:14 Well, uh, let's see. I think in 2001 was when they did my neck.

Joe Rogan 32:21 So that was the first one?

Don Frye 32:22 Yeah. 'Cause I'd done that from pro wrestling war. You know, 'cause I did the UFC in '96, and then in '97 I was hired by Antonio Inoki and Masa Shido to do New Japan Pro-Wrestling.

Joe Rogan 32:38 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 32:39 And, um, Brad Regans, um, he's a cousin of Brock Lesnar's, second cousin. So he call- he called up Jeff, you know, 'cause Brad took fourth in the Olympics in '76 in Greco-Roman.

Joe Rogan 32:53 Hmm.

Don Frye 32:53 And then he was on the team in '80, um, when... And he was gonna be the gold medal winner. Uh, he had beaten the gold medal winner in '76, but they were doing the point system then, you know, so he got screwed out of-

Joe Rogan 33:09 What's the point system?

Don Frye 33:10 Oh, uh-

Joe Rogan 33:12 When you-

Don Frye 33:12 Oh-

Joe Rogan 33:12 ... you get changed it?

Don Frye 33:13 You get so many points, so many points for advancing, so many points for a pin, so many points-

Joe Rogan 33:18 Oh.

Don Frye 33:18 ... for, you know, a point wins, you know.

Joe Rogan 33:20 So they changed it?

Don Frye 33:21 Yeah. So they went, they went back to the normal. I mean, amateur wrestling fucks around so much, you know, with the rules, and so does judo.

Joe Rogan 33:32 Have you paid attention to the PFL at all?

Don Frye 33:34 No, I have not.

Joe Rogan 33:35 I was watching that today. I was watching in the gym while I was working out, and they have, uh... It's interesting, they have real good fighters over there, some real good fighters. But they have some wacky thing that they do where you get a certain amount of points for a submission-

Don Frye 33:47 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:48 ... certain amount of points for a knockout, and then you move ahead.

Don Frye 33:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:51 And... But it's like, uh, you're scoring.

Don Frye 33:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:54 Like, y- like, so it goes... And they call it the playoffs, and then you're moving towards this eventual million-dollar tournament that they put together. But it's-

Don Frye 34:02 That- that's how they are doing it with, um, judo and with amateur wrestling.

Joe Rogan 34:06 Yeah, but their thing is weird. They're, they're... The way they have it set up, like, if you win, but if you win in the first round, you get extra points-

Don Frye 34:13 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 34:13 ... if you wi-... You know, if you miss weight, you lose a point. So they have, uh... It's a, it's a wa- it's a hard to follow. S- even for someone like me who's a big fan of the sport, I can't follow their system. I'm like, "You got great fighters, but you're confusing the shit out of people with this wacky system."

Don Frye 34:28 Yeah. Well, you miss weight, your ass be gone.

Joe Rogan 34:31 I think that's a good call. I think you should not be able to fight, or I think there, there should be some major penalty-

Don Frye 34:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:38 ... because a lot of these guys are choosing to miss weight.

Don Frye 34:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:41 You know?

Don Frye 34:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:41 They're choosing to miss weight.

Don Frye 34:43 Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 34:43 They're like, "I don't wanna do this, fuck it."

Don Frye 34:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:45 And then, then... But you could, but you know that's gonna drain you-

Don Frye 34:47 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 34:48 ... and so they choose to come in a, a pound or two heavy, and then they feel a lot better the next day.

Don Frye 34:53 Right.

Joe Rogan 34:53 Because there's... You know, you know better than anybody-

Don Frye 34:55 They have a better chance of winning too.

Joe Rogan 34:57 Yeah, yeah.

Don Frye 34:57 You know?

Joe Rogan 34:57 A better chance of winning 'cause they're not as drained. A lot of these guys are cutting at tr- tr-... I wish there was no weight cutting, that's what I really wish. I wish you got down to a healthy weight and you fought at whatever weight you're at, and they just figured out what, what the weight classes could be to make it so that there's more options, maybe every 10 pounds-

Don Frye 35:13 What, we get a five-pound range, or what?

Joe Rogan 35:14 Something like that. Like, boxing has it, but I think with MMA, I think the, the weight classes are too wide, you know?

Don Frye 35:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:20 You got 85 and then you got 205. That's crazy. That's 20 pounds. To ha- to have two weight classes separated by 20 pounds is just fucking nuts to me. I think it should be... I mean, I would love if it was five pounds, but I think 10 pounds is, is fine.

Don Frye 35:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:36 10 pounds is workable. You know, you could adjust your diet, adjust your training habits, do a little extra running, whatever you gotta do to-

Don Frye 35:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:43 But, but more than that-

Don Frye 35:44 But then you get into the what happened in pro boxing, you end up having 80 champions, you know?

Joe Rogan 35:48 That's what the argument against it is, right? But the thing about pro boxing is, you know, you have all these different organizations. You got the WBC, WBA, IBO-

Don Frye 35:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 35:58 ... and all that shit. With, with the UFC, if they just kept it in the UFC, just with the UFC and made all these different weight classes, one every 10 pounds, I think is very doable.

Don Frye 36:09 Yeah, yeah. Well-

Joe Rogan 36:11 And it'd be a lot more opportunities for guys to go up in weight or down in weight and fight, you know, have champion versus champion fights. Like when Israel Adesanya fought Jablonski, you know, you got your middleweight champion fighting your light heavyweight champion. The size difference is so big.

Don Frye 36:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:26 It's a giant size difference.

Don Frye 36:28 Well, that's why they need a super heavyweight, you know.

Joe Rogan 36:30 Yeah, I think so too. Yeah.

Don Frye 36:32 I mean, that's... Why cut it off at 285? That's ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 36:35 265, yeah, it's crazy.

Don Frye 36:36 That's ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 36:37 It is ridiculous.

Don Frye 36:37 You have so many, uh, good fighters that are heavier. I mean, um-

Joe Rogan 36:41 Rulon Gardner.

Don Frye 36:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:43 Like, Rulon Gardner is like a 300-pounder.

Don Frye 36:45 Well, Eriksson, Tom Eriksson.

Joe Rogan 36:46 Yep, Tom Eriksson.

Don Frye 36:47 You know?

Joe Rogan 36:47 Yeah, he was like a 300-pounder, right?

Don Frye 36:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:48 He was... When in his prime, people forgot about Tom Eriksson.

Don Frye 36:52 (laughs) He's frightening, man.

Joe Rogan 36:53 Holy shit, he was terrifying.

Don Frye 36:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 36:55 A elite wrestler who could knock you the fuck out, and he was huge.

Don Frye 36:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:59 And he moved like a cat.

Don Frye 37:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:01 When... In his prime, Tom Eriksson was one of the scariest specimens to ever compete in MMA.

Don Frye 37:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:06 He was a fucking gigantic man who moved so good.

Don Frye 37:10 But he's another one didn't like getting punched in the face, though.

Joe Rogan 37:13 Eh, who does?

Don Frye 37:15 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:15 (laughs)

Don Frye 37:15 I kind of enjoy it.

Joe Rogan 37:16 Di- Well, you're, you're an unusual guy, Don Frye.

Don Frye 37:19 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:20 So, so when you first fought and you decided, "Okay, this is what I'm gonna do," um, when the, the UFC was taking off, how... You, you stayed in the UFC for a few years and then went over to PRIDE. When, when did you find out about PRIDE?

Don Frye 37:34 No, I stayed in UFC one year.

Joe Rogan 37:35 Only one year?

Don Frye 37:36 Yeah, in '96. And then I went to pro wrestling.

Joe Rogan 37:40 Oh, really?

Don Frye 37:41 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:43 So you... All your fights in the UFC were only one year?

Don Frye 37:45 One year.

Joe Rogan 37:46 Wow, no shit.

Don Frye 37:47 Yeah. And none of them went the distance. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:52 That's incredible. And then from New Japan Pro-Wrestling, you ... So, how'd you find out about that?

Don Frye 37:57 Then I went to Pride.

Joe Rogan 37:58 Did they contact you from the UFC?

Don Frye 38:00 Yes, sir. They contacted me. Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 38:03 Mm-hmm. Wow.

Don Frye 38:05 Um, because ... God rest, uh, Ken Shamrock, you know, he, he had the deal.

Joe Rogan 38:12 Right, he had a connection over there.

Don Frye 38:14 Well, no, they, they want- ... They signed ... They run ... They offered him a deal to go over there and be a bad guy American shooter style, you know.

Joe Rogan 38:23 Hmm.

Don Frye 38:24 And so he took that contract, went to WWE-

Joe Rogan 38:28 Right.

Don Frye 38:29 ... and showed them, and they matched it or bettered it, you know. And, um, then that left New Japan Pro-Wrestling hanging. So-

Joe Rogan 38:38 Oh.

Don Frye 38:39 That's when Masa Shidell called Brad Regans. Brad Regans called Jeff Blatnick. God rest the late Jeff Blatnick.

Joe Rogan 38:48 Yeah, what a great guy he was.

Don Frye 38:49 He recommended me, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:50 What a great guy Jeff Blatnick was.

Don Frye 38:52 Yeah, he was.

Joe Rogan 38:52 He, uh ... He gave me some great advice when I first started working for the UFC.

Don Frye 38:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:55 Just, just a sweetheart of a guy. What di- ... How did he go- ... How did he pass?

Don Frye 39:01 Uh, it was a heart-

Joe Rogan 39:02 It was a heart attack?

Don Frye 39:04 I think so.

Joe Rogan 39:05 Sweetheart of a guy though.

Don Frye 39:06 He was a good guy.

Joe Rogan 39:07 Really good guy. Um, and a elite wrestler too, and just fantastic-

Don Frye 39:11 Gold medal.

Joe Rogan 39:12 Yeah, and fantastic doing commentary because of that-

Don Frye 39:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:15 ... that experience.

Don Frye 39:15 He was like you, he was a student of the sport.

Joe Rogan 39:18 Yeah, there he was.

Don Frye 39:18 Where he got hired and studied it, and you know.

Joe Rogan 39:22 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 39:22 He's amazing.

Joe Rogan 39:23 Yeah, he was an amazing guy. And when ... So, you go over to New Japan Pro-Wrestling, and that's when you were getting most of your injuries you think?

Don Frye 39:33 Yes, sir, 'cause I was, I was trying to be Ric Flair and Terry Funk, you know.

Joe Rogan 39:40 (laughs)

Don Frye 39:41 And, uh, they didn't want that, you know. They, they wanted more of a Bruiser Brody type thing.

Joe Rogan 39:47 Right.

Don Frye 39:47 You know, uh-

Joe Rogan 39:48 They wanted you the badass American cowboy.

Don Frye 39:50 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 39:51 Yeah.

Don Frye 39:51 Yeah. And not to take the bumps, you know.

Joe Rogan 39:54 Right.

Don Frye 39:54 I ended up taking bumps that I shouldn't have taken, so it ...

Joe Rogan 39:57 That's the thing about pro-wrestling, right? People think, "Oh, it's fake." Y- ... Listen, the fucking ... Those slams are not fake.

Don Frye 40:03 No.

Joe Rogan 40:03 You're really getting slammed, you know. Those picking guys up over your head, slamming 'em down, them picking you up, all the different, uh, uh, collisions that you guys would have with each other night after night after night. And is their circuit over there similar to the circuit here? Would you do a lot of different shows, or were they mostly televised? How'd they do it over there?

Don Frye 40:22 Yeah, y- ... They did a lot of dark matches, you know.

Joe Rogan 40:25 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 40:25 Um, absolutely. I mean, that's how they keep the money coming in.

Joe Rogan 40:30 Right. They do arenas-

Don Frye 40:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:31 ... just like they do in America.

Don Frye 40:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 40:33 Yeah. People don't know, uh, if you're not a fan of pro-wrestling, those guys are working hundreds of nights a week, or a year rather. They're, they're u- ... They're working ... You know, uh, Dallas Page was telling me that he, you know, sometimes did 200-plus shows a year-

Don Frye 40:48 Right. Some guys do 300, you know.

Joe Rogan 40:50 ... which is ... It's incredible if you-

Don Frye 40:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:51 ... you stop and think about that.

Don Frye 40:52 And 365 days in a year, you know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:55 That's crazy.

Don Frye 40:55 And you're, you're ... Yeah, you're getting whacked, you know.

Joe Rogan 40:58 Most of 'em. Yeah. You're, you're working more days than you're not working.

Don Frye 41:01 Right.

Joe Rogan 41:01 It's just, just-

Don Frye 41:03 And the travel.

Joe Rogan 41:04 Yeah, and the travel. So you're exhausted all the time, you're jet-lagged, and you're getting slammed.

Don Frye 41:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:09 Yeah.

Don Frye 41:09 And you gotta stay in shape.

Joe Rogan 41:10 Yup.

Don Frye 41:10 And you gotta eat, you know.

Joe Rogan 41:14 Yeah.

Don Frye 41:14 I- i- it's a work. It's a real, you know ... It's a real living. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:18 Now, when you went over there, did you have to go to pro-wrestling school? Did they train you how to do it?

Don Frye 41:23 Brad Regans trained me.

Joe Rogan 41:24 He did?

Don Frye 41:25 Yeah. Yes, sir. And Brad, you know, phenomenal. He, he's a phenomenal athlete, you know. And like I said, you know, he, uh, took fourth in the '76 Olympics in Montreal when he should've won, and then he would've won the '80 Olympics, you know. And then, uh, then he ended up ... He got out, you know, and he trained Jeff Blatnick, you know, 'cause they were tight. And since, uh, Brad stepped away, you know, all the concentration was on, on Jeff.

Joe Rogan 41:58 And how did you go from New Japan Pro- Pro-Wrestling to Pride?

Don Frye 42:04 Ego. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:05 Ego? (laughs) Yeah.

Don Frye 42:05 Yeah. (laughs) I saw Mark Coleman win, you know.

Joe Rogan 42:10 Oh.

Don Frye 42:10 And I said, "Mother ... " You know? I, I said, "Tha- that's nonsense."

Joe Rogan 42:15 (laughs)

Don Frye 42:15 "That should be me. That ... " You know? Uh, stupid.

Joe Rogan 42:19 So what year was that? What was y- ... What year was your, uh, your first Pride fight?

Don Frye 42:25 Hell, partner. First ... '01.

Joe Rogan 42:28 '01?

Don Frye 42:29 Yeah, it was, uh-

Joe Rogan 42:30 That was the glory days.

Don Frye 42:31 Yeah. It was two weeks after 9/11. I think it was either the 23rd or the 28th.

Joe Rogan 42:38 Wow.

Don Frye 42:39 You know?

Joe Rogan 42:40 Wow.

Don Frye 42:40 And I went in there, you know, with, um ... I told my parents, "Find me a flag, you know. Give it to the guys when they come over." And, uh, my mother-in-law made those shorts for me.

Joe Rogan 42:52 Oh, really?

Don Frye 42:53 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:53 Oh, right.

Don Frye 42:54 Yeah. So, you know, then I says, you know, "I'm going in with the national anthem."

Joe Rogan 42:59 Nice.

Don Frye 43:00 Oh, it was ... It was, it was amazing, you know, walking with the flag, having the national anthem. It was, it was, it was cool.

Joe Rogan 43:07 Look at you there. Don Frye, 20 years ago. Isn't that wild?

Don Frye 43:12 Yeah, it's ... Jeez. Jeez. Was it ... What year is this? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:20 That fight in the lower corner, that-

Don Frye 43:23 Done.

Joe Rogan 43:23 The Takayama fight, that was one of the craziest fucking moments in the history of mixed martial arts when you and Takayama were just slamming each other in the head-

Don Frye 43:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:33 ... over and over and over again.

Don Frye 43:35 God bless him, man. He's a-

Joe Rogan 43:36 Jesus Christ, that fight.

Don Frye 43:38 Yes.

Joe Rogan 43:38 Bro, see if you can just pull up that exchange 'cause in, in all the history of the sport, that is one of the most iconic exchanges-

Don Frye 43:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:46 ... of any two f- ... 'Cause you couldn't believe it was happening, and you couldn't believe-

Don Frye 43:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:49 You couldn't believe you guys kept doing it.

Don Frye 43:51 Yeah, yeah. Well, you should've been where I was at. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:55 (laughs) ... I mean, this, this fight was so fucking bananas. I mean, you just walk towards each other and just ... This fucking exchange is like a movie exchange. In the tie-up, you're both hitting each other with right hands, I mean what-

Don Frye 44:07 And it's actual speed, you know.

Joe Rogan 44:09 ... what in the fuck is that? How the hell did you guys do that?

Don Frye 44:12 Well, you, if you go back, you see I slip, so I grab him though, you know, 'cause I slipped. I had to grab his neck to keep from falling, and so he just stayed there and I stayed there.

Joe Rogan 44:24 Just nuts. I mean, I never seen anything like that before or since. That was a ... While, while that was happening and you just s- slamming right hands into each other like that, what was, what was going through your head?

Don Frye 44:36 I was like, "What the hell's keeping this guy up?"

Joe Rogan 44:38 (laughs)

Don Frye 44:40 You-

Joe Rogan 44:40 He was probably thinking the same thing about you.

Don Frye 44:42 Yeah. (laughs) But I hit hard, Joe. I hit hard.

Joe Rogan 44:44 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, you do.

Don Frye 44:46 You know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:46 Yeah. You hit him with some fucking haymakers.

Don Frye 44:48 Oh, man. And I, I couldn't believe he was taking 'em, and it was like, it started to scare the hell outta me. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:56 (laughs) Was that one of those 80,000-seat shows, one of those gigantic ones they did?

Don Frye 45:01 Uh, I think it was only 45.

Joe Rogan 45:04 (laughs) 'Cause-

Don Frye 45:05 Small show.

Joe Rogan 45:05 (laughs) Uh, uh, a medium show.

Don Frye 45:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:08 'Cause they did some, uh, some Saitama Super Arena shows where it was just insanity.

Don Frye 45:13 Oh, we did, uh, Tokyo Dome. I did Antonio Inoki's retirement match.

Joe Rogan 45:20 Oh, yeah?

Don Frye 45:20 Tokyo Dome, 70,000, so they sold that out and then they sold 5,000 standing tickets, you know.

Joe Rogan 45:27 Wow.

Don Frye 45:28 They got permission from the party part to do that, so I did that, and then they did the, um, national soccer arena, you know, for, uh, PRIDE K-1 New Year's Eve event.

Joe Rogan 45:40 Oh, wow.

Don Frye 45:41 That's when, that's when, um, uh, Jerome Le Banu ki- mm-hmm, knocked me on my ass. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 45:48 Mm. Yeah, you had that one kickboxing fight against him. That's, uh, that's a crazy deal to take, to take a kickboxing fight against one of the great kickboxers of all time.

Don Frye 46:00 Yeah, yeah. And, um-

Joe Rogan 46:02 Was that a ego deal too?

Don Frye 46:03 Yeah, ego and-

Joe Rogan 46:04 (laughs)

Don Frye 46:04 Well, the thing is, the deal was we were supposed to do a-

Joe Rogan 46:07 An MMA fight.

Don Frye 46:09 ... MMA fight, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:09 And then he backed out of that?

Don Frye 46:11 I don't know what happened, but man-

Joe Rogan 46:12 Just never happened?

Don Frye 46:13 There's a lot of things that happened, Joe, that I'm finding out now, you know, 20 years later, that, uh, he, you know, the, the two scumbags that were my agent at the time-

Joe Rogan 46:26 Oh, really?

Don Frye 46:27 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:29 Oh, so they made some backdoor deals?

Don Frye 46:30 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:32 Oh, sorry to hear that.

Don Frye 46:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:34 That's the sport, right? The sport of-

Don Frye 46:36 Yeah, it's just-

Joe Rogan 46:36 Prizefighting, there's always gonna be scumbags.

Don Frye 46:39 Prizefighting is full of shit, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:40 Yeah. There's a ... I was, I'm watching this, um, uh, The Kings documentary on Showtime.

Don Frye 46:45 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 46:45 Have you seen it?

Don Frye 46:47 No, I just s- found out about it yesterday.

Joe Rogan 46:51 Ah, it's fucking amazing. It is amazing. It's so good. It's all about Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Lennon, Thomas Hearns, and Marvin Hagler. It's fucking incredible.

Don Frye 47:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:03 It's incredible. It's so good. And it makes you remember, like, man, those days were wild.

Don Frye 47:08 Well, they, they had the one, Once We Were Kings.

Joe Rogan 47:11 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 47:12 You know, about the heavyweight guys.

Joe Rogan 47:13 With, with Ali.

Don Frye 47:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:14 Yeah.

Don Frye 47:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:15 Yeah. This is, uh, just about those four guys, and, like, the, you know, the, the matches that they had with each other, you know?

Don Frye 47:21 Well, the Once We Were Kings were about Ali, Foreman, Frazier-

Joe Rogan 47:25 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 47:26 ... Norton-

Joe Rogan 47:26 Yep, yep.

Don Frye 47:27 ... and Holmes.

Joe Rogan 47:28 Yeah. Yeah.

Don Frye 47:30 Yeah. Those were some f- ... Those were some animals there, you know?

Joe Rogan 47:32 Yeah, my God. Some-

Don Frye 47:34 But, uh-

Joe Rogan 47:34 ... amazing fights.

Don Frye 47:37 I loved Hagler. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 47:38 Oh, my God. He's my favorite.

Don Frye 47:39 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:40 (exhales)

Don Frye 47:42 I loved Hagler. It broke my heart when I found out he f- freaking passed.

Joe Rogan 47:45 Yeah, that was a rough one.

Don Frye 47:46 I couldn't believe that, man.

Joe Rogan 47:47 That was a rough one. That made me real sad. He was-

Don Frye 47:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:50 ... uh, when I was a kid, he was my idol.

Don Frye 47:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:53 'Cause he was just, like, this guy that didn't have any hype behind him, a hardworking guy from Brockton, Massachusetts, just blue-collar, just always outworked everybody.

Don Frye 48:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:03 And just wouldn't stop. And then when he got to w- the pinnacle, when he knocked out Thomas Hearns, that fight was just like, that was the fight that made him, and people really understood what kinda greatness that man had in him.

Don Frye 48:15 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 48:15 I mean, people knew how good he was before that, but you had to see him against another superstar and see him just wade right into the fire to see what Thomas, what ... You know, Thomas Hearns was a murderous puncher.

Don Frye 48:24 Oh, he was a monster.

Joe Rogan 48:25 Murderous puncher. And to see Marvin Hagler just take it and keep coming forward.

Don Frye 48:29 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:30 What a fight. And, and that was a fight. It was barely a boxing match.

Don Frye 48:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:33 It was a fight. You know? I mean, they made it a war.

Don Frye 48:37 Well, they had that on their hat, didn't they?

Joe Rogan 48:39 Yeah. Yup, that was, that was Hagler. Yeah, he put "war" on everything.

Don Frye 48:42 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:43 He was, he was something special, you know?

Don Frye 48:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:46 He was an, an inspiration in Massachusetts, everybody.

Don Frye 48:50 I still question, um-

Joe Rogan 48:54 The Leonard decision?

Don Frye 48:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:55 Yeah, I thought he won that fight.

Don Frye 48:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:57 Yeah, I thought he won that fight. But I did love the fact that he retired and said, "That's it. I'm done. Fuck this sport."

Don Frye 49:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:03 "I'm going to Italy and make martial arts movies." (laughs)

Don Frye 49:06 How'd he do? What were the, uh, you know? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:08 They were good. They were terrible.

Don Frye 49:09 Yeah?

Joe Rogan 49:09 Terrible movies, but he made a lot of money, you know? He was a superstar over there.

Don Frye 49:12 Wer- weren't any worse than, uh, Dipshit, huh?

Joe Rogan 49:16 Oh, they were worse, believe it or not.

Don Frye 49:17 Really?

Joe Rogan 49:18 Yeah, they were crazy bad. But they were comically bad. They were like, uh, you know, like, he'd punch people, they'd go flying through the air, that kinda shit.

Don Frye 49:25 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:25 You ever seen?

Don Frye 49:26 Uh, no.

Joe Rogan 49:26 See if you can find some clips. Jamie's found some clips. They were hilarious movies. You know, um, but, you know, he decided he didn't want to fight anymore and went out at the very top of his game.

Don Frye 49:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:37 Which is kind of incredible. There's only a few guys who've ever done that. Andre Ward did that. He did that, you know? Only a few guys ever just went out-

Don Frye 49:44 Uh, the guy from UFC.

Joe Rogan 49:48 Georges St-Pierre?

Don Frye 49:50 Uh, no.

Joe Rogan 49:50 Khabib. Khabib Nurmagomedov.

Don Frye 49:52 Khabib.

Joe Rogan 49:53 Yeah.

Don Frye 49:53 Khabib.

Joe Rogan 49:53 Yeah. Khabib did it. Yeah, I mean, Khabib, and Khabib and, um-... but I mean, no- very few guys have ever gotten to the point where Khabib is, and, and decided... I mean, he's in- in his early 30s.

Don Frye 50:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:05 This is Marvin Hagler here. So look at this.

Don Frye 50:08 All right. They shoo-

Joe Rogan 50:09 See, look at this. (laughs)

Don Frye 50:10 ... they're shooting the bow... they shooting the arrows-

Joe Rogan 50:12 Yeah.

Don Frye 50:12 ... at the airplane, or... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:13 I don't know what he was doing, but look at... they just... these are terrible movies.

Don Frye 50:18 Indigo, huh? Indigo.

Joe Rogan 50:20 "Indio."

Don Frye 50:21 Indigo.

Joe Rogan 50:22 "Indio." Yeah.

Don Frye 50:22 Oh, Indio.

Joe Rogan 50:23 There's just, uh, these, like, silly movies. (laughs)

Don Frye 50:27 (laughs) I think he's shooting at the roof.

Joe Rogan 50:29 Yeah. I don't know what he's doing. It's just crazy. They just... Uh, Italian movies. But he was a, a huge star over there. I guess he learned Italian. See, he punches that guy. He goes-

Don Frye 50:40 Wow. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:41 That guy flies through the air. (laughs)

Don Frye 50:42 That's a hell of a hook.

Joe Rogan 50:43 Look at this. (laughs)

Don Frye 50:44 Upper cut. Yeah. (laughs) Geez, that's great, man.

Joe Rogan 50:50 But there's some-... Someone has to do something like that on the early days of Pride, they really do, 'cause the... Pride was something special because for us that were watching it at home, the, all the fans, we... It was a... It wasn't known. It wasn't like everybody... Like, the UFC today, say if, um, Francis Ngannou's fighting or if Stylebender's fighting, everybody knows. It's big.

Don Frye 51:14 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 51:14 It's a huge sport, you know? You know, you find out the event's coming this weekend. Hundreds of thousands, if not a million pay-per-view buys. It's a big deal. But back then, Pride was... No one knew over here.

Don Frye 51:24 No.

Joe Rogan 51:25 Only the martial arts fans knew. It wasn't a big deal, but we knew that we were seeing something special.

Don Frye 51:31 Well, it was like a Super Bowl every three months.

Joe Rogan 51:34 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 51:35 It was. I'll tell you what, Joe, it was... Y- you know, people say, uh, you know, the Nogueira brothers came over here and got whooped. They say Mirko came over and got whooped. We were busted up, man.

Joe Rogan 51:51 Yeah.

Don Frye 51:52 You get in top shape every three months to fight, you know, a top guy. You get busted up, and it's, it's hard.

Joe Rogan 51:59 Yeah.

Don Frye 52:00 It's so hard on the body-

Joe Rogan 52:01 Yep.

Don Frye 52:01 ... to do something like that.

Joe Rogan 52:03 Yeah, everybody who came over to America had already been past their prime in Pride.

Don Frye 52:08 They had already had a career.

Joe Rogan 52:09 They... Nogueira, yeah. Had a, a full career.

Don Frye 52:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:11 Like, think of Nogueira's wars.

Don Frye 52:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:13 The wars that he had. The war with Fedor, with Cro Cop, with, uh, I mean, so many guys.

Don Frye 52:18 Big Bob.

Joe Rogan 52:19 Bob Sapp.

Don Frye 52:20 (laughs) I love Bob.

Joe Rogan 52:21 Bob was 375 pounds and pile-drived him.

Don Frye 52:24 I love Bob, man. He's such a good guy.

Joe Rogan 52:24 Apparently, Minotauro's neck was fucked up for the rest of his life after that fight.

Don Frye 52:29 Really?

Joe Rogan 52:29 Yeah.

Don Frye 52:29 I can see that.

Joe Rogan 52:30 Of course.

Don Frye 52:31 God dang.

Joe Rogan 52:32 Yeah. I mean, Bob was 375 with a six-pack, which... What in the fuck was he taking?

Don Frye 52:38 Uh, he... You know, what, 5% body fat, you know. God.

Joe Rogan 52:40 He was so big.

Don Frye 52:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:42 He was so big, it seemed like a, like a boss character in a video game.

Don Frye 52:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:47 Like the, the final guy that you had to beat.

Don Frye 52:50 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:50 You know? I mean, Bob was just gigantic. And he had some skills.

Don Frye 52:54 And he... Yeah, and he's the funniest guy.

Joe Rogan 52:56 Was he?

Don Frye 52:57 Oh, my God, he's so funny, you know. Um... And then, uh... Yeah, somebody told me not to say that to you. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:06 That he was funny?

Don Frye 53:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:07 Bob's funny. He's-

Don Frye 53:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:08 Well, his character was hilarious.

Don Frye 53:10 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:10 He put the cape on and everything, and-

Don Frye 53:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:13 And they loved him in Japan, boy.

Don Frye 53:14 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:14 They loved him over there. He was a huge superstar with them, right?

Don Frye 53:18 Yeah, and then, um...

Joe Rogan 53:20 But I think that time, that period of time, from like 2001 to whenever it was that Pride went away. It was like 2006 or something like that?

Don Frye 53:28 So yeah, eight maybe?

Joe Rogan 53:30 Look at that.

Don Frye 53:30 Was it ten years or eight years?

Joe Rogan 53:32 Look at him and Overeem. (laughs)

Don Frye 53:33 Look at Overeem, yeah. Horse meat. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:36 They... Did, did they fight? No, that's the guy with-

Don Frye 53:39 I don't know. It says "versus" behind him.

Joe Rogan 53:42 It's an arm wrestling match. Oh, it is an arm wrestling match.

Don Frye 53:43 Oh, okay.

Joe Rogan 53:44 Well, Uber-eem is back. He's going back to glory, so they're gonna let him get back on the secret sauce. We're gonna see, uh-

Don Frye 53:51 Good.

Joe Rogan 53:51 ... Alistair Overeem. Yeah, good. That's what I say.

Don Frye 53:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:54 Listen, test all the fighters you have to test, but when a guy's been saucy all throughout the best parts of his career, and then you make him come over here and be natural... I mean, we got a chance to see him against, uh, Brock Lesnar when he was saucy.

Don Frye 54:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:07 You know?

Don Frye 54:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:08 When he was 265, jacked, built like a superhero. But then, you know, all these pesky USADA tests.

Don Frye 54:17 You know what? If every athlete on the planet would tell USADA to kiss their fucking ass-

Joe Rogan 54:23 Yeah.

Don Frye 54:23 ... you know, they'd go away. They should go away. They have too much power, you know, to bang on somebody's door at 5:00 in the morning.

Joe Rogan 54:30 How about when they were about to fight? Like fight day, they did it to, uh, Alexander Volkanovski.

Don Frye 54:35 Really?

Joe Rogan 54:35 On fi- wasn't it him? Was it, was it... It was him, yeah. Yes. Literally fight day, these motherfuckers wake him up at 6:00 in the morning and, and tell him to take a piss.

Don Frye 54:45 That'd un- that'd unleash the dogs, man. You know?

Joe Rogan 54:47 Yeah, yeah. That is insanity. The insa- It's insanity that they would even think that would be okay.

Don Frye 54:52 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:52 And it's a v- a huge disadvantage if they don't test his opponent.

Don Frye 54:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:56 They should test him at the same time, but even... First of all, they should leave him the fuck alone.

Don Frye 54:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:00 That's... It's crazy that they did that.

Don Frye 55:02 I mean, the psychological-

Joe Rogan 55:03 Yeah.

Don Frye 55:04 ... fuck that is, you know?

Joe Rogan 55:06 Yeah. I mean, he's... And he was like, "Are you fucking kidding me? Are they really here?"

Don Frye 55:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:10 You know, he couldn't believe it. I mean, he's a- he's just trying to stay calm and get ready for a fight and...

Don Frye 55:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 55:16 When, when you were fighting in Pride, they, did they test at all? Like, they...

Don Frye 55:21 Sure they tested, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:22 Yeah, but they didn't give a fuck.

Don Frye 55:24 We don't know what happened. Maybe they spilt it on the way to the toilet. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:29 (laughs) Enson told me that they had in the contract in all capital letters, "WE DO NOT TEST FOR STEROIDS."

Don Frye 55:34 Oh, yeah?

Joe Rogan 55:35 Yeah.

Don Frye 55:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:35 He said they were like...

Don Frye 55:37 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:37 ... letting you know.

Don Frye 55:38 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:39 Yeah.

Don Frye 55:39 Well, it was like, uh, UFC 9, uh, when, when, um, McCarthy came in and said you can't punch, you know, you close fist.

Joe Rogan 55:50 Right.

Don Frye 55:51 Or you will be fined somewhere, sometime, some amount down the road.

Joe Rogan 55:56 Right.

Don Frye 55:56 You know?

Joe Rogan 55:57 Right.

Don Frye 55:58 So (laughs) y- yeah, go ahead, basically, is what he said.

Joe Rogan 56:00 Oh, is that what he said?

Don Frye 56:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:02 Oh, okay. So he said-

Don Frye 56:02 You will be fined eventually, somewhere, some amount, you know?

Joe Rogan 56:06 Oh, so it was one of those deals?

Don Frye 56:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:08 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Don Frye 56:09 So, I mean, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna enforce this stupid rule, you know? That...... you know.

Joe Rogan 56:17 What was it like working in PRIDE?

Don Frye 56:19 I liked it until, (silence) till I found out that, um, you know, I'd been robbed a couple times and, um, they were supposed to have paid your taxes. And then, you know, I went and did the last show as a favor, you know? And I took a tremendous cut and, you know, then the next day I go in to get paid and the president of PRIDE's not there. So I said, "Fuck, something's up." And they said, uh, you know, (groans) I'm not gonna say his name because, you know, it's still questionable, everything. So he said, "He's on the... He's not here, he's on the phone." I go, "Ah, crap." He says, "Donjon, yesterday Japanese IRS come to our office looking for you." He said, "They're downstairs right now waiting on you."

Joe Rogan 57:15 Oh, boy.

Don Frye 57:16 Yeah. So I had to go down there and pay my way out of Japan. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:20 Oh, Jesus Christ.

Don Frye 57:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:23 Wow.

Don Frye 57:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:24 Yeah, there was a lot of weird shenanigans with money over there, right? That was why Bob Sapp wound up leaving, right? They, they told him he, they wanted him to fight and he didn't have a contract.

Don Frye 57:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:32 And the day of the fight, there's still no contract. He's like, "Look, if I don't have a contract-

Don Frye 57:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:36 ... I'm not going out there." And then they effectively kind of blackballed him and he never really re- reached those same heights again.

Don Frye 57:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 57:43 They stopped promoting him, stopped, you know?

Don Frye 57:46 Well, some asswipe over there made the announcement that, uh, you know, the yakuzas was involved with PRIDE. You know? Like that's a shocker? I mean, the yakuza's involved with everything over there.

Joe Rogan 57:59 And that killed the business over there, right?

Don Frye 58:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:01 Was that, like, the media did that or a journalist did that or something?

Don Frye 58:04 It was, yeah, a journalist, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:05 Yeah. But everybody knew anyway, right?

Don Frye 58:07 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 58:07 Yeah.

Don Frye 58:08 But you're not supposed to...

Joe Rogan 58:09 Publicly announce it.

Don Frye 58:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:11 Because then advertisers don't want to be involved in it.

Don Frye 58:14 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:15 Yeah. And th- is that what killed the business over there?

Don Frye 58:17 Yeah, yeah. It destroyed it, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:19 So how many years did it run for, in its, like, in its heyday?

Don Frye 58:24 I don't know. I th- I did the last one, I don't know if it was eight or nine. Do you though?

Joe Rogan 58:29 We'll f- we'll find out. Because-

Don Frye 58:31 So it was, it was like a good solid seven or eight years? No, it was more than that. I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 58:36 It was?

Don Frye 58:36 It's just, I'm thinking about myself here. (laughs) Imagine that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:43 (laughs)

Don Frye 58:43 Yeah. Because I came in at number 19, right?

Joe Rogan 58:47 Oh, was it?

Don Frye 58:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:48 Wow.

Don Frye 58:48 19 or 21.

Joe Rogan 58:49 Well, I remember the first one was, uh, Rickson. Rickson fought the very first one.

Don Frye 58:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:54 And they used... It was Rickson versus Takada, right? Wasn't that number one? I believe so.

Don Frye 58:59 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 59:01 I think that was, 'cause I think the way they launched PRIDE, I do remember that Rickson was the first one. Because the way they launched PRIDE was by having pro wrestling stars compete in MMA.

Don Frye 59:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:13 And that was one of the big attractive, a- attractions to PRIDE, 'cause pro wrestling in Japan back then was gigantic, right?

Don Frye 59:20 Oh, yeah. Well, the UWF. Remember the UWF?

Joe Rogan 59:23 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Don Frye 59:24 That, that was like the, the first creation of, of PRIDE, I guess. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 59:32 Yeah.

Don Frye 59:34 Well, you know.

Joe Rogan 59:35 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 59:36 They had, they had, um, their guys shooting on each other sometimes, you know?

Joe Rogan 59:42 Sometimes.

Don Frye 59:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:43 And sometimes not.

Don Frye 59:44 Right.

Joe Rogan 59:44 What that means, for, for people that don't understand what that means, some of the fights were a work, meaning, like, you knew who was gonna win, you'd worked it out in advance, and some of the fights just turned out to be real fights.

Don Frye 59:54 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:55 And that was a thing that would happen sometimes in Japan with pro wrestling, right?

Don Frye 59:58 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 59:59 They would just decide that... And sometimes the opponent didn't know.

Don Frye 1:00:02 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 And the guy would go out and start throwing haymakers at them and kick them and take them down, stomp them, and you're like, "Whoa."

Don Frye 1:00:09 Well, it happened here too. I mean, you had Gene LeBell-

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 Oh, yeah.

Don Frye 1:00:13 ... you know, who was the (laughs) the muscle for his parents, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:00:18 His family. You know, and then Roddy Piper-

Joe Rogan 1:00:20 Yep.

Don Frye 1:00:21 ... was a muscle for a while.

Joe Rogan 1:00:22 Yeah, yeah. Well- well, it's, um, a lot of guys who were, uh, in pro wrestling were legit combat sports athletes.

Don Frye 1:00:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:33 And some of them were just pro wrestlers. They just got into it just as entertainers. So there was a, a wide variety. And over in Japan, Takada was kind of, uh, you know, he was a huge superstar over there. And he... But Rickson would not agree to anything other than a real fight.

Don Frye 1:00:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:00:50 So if you watch that fight, it's very clear. Yeah.

Don Frye 1:00:54 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:54 But some of the fights weren't, right?

Don Frye 1:00:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 And you kind of had to, like, look at it with a discerning eye. Like, you'd see a guy get caught in a heel hook and you're like, "Hm." Like, "That looks a little fishy." Like...

Don Frye 1:01:06 Well, I remember, um, after Ken Shamrock and I fought, I went to a WWE show here in, in Tucson. And The Undertaker, he asked me if that was a work. Uh, he just goes, "'Cause you both ended up in a heel hook." I'm like, "Well, fuck yeah we both ended up in a heel hook." You know? We both... He had my foot and that was the only thing I could grab, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:01:31 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:01:32 Shit. That was a, that was a shoot, buddy. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 Yeah. It looked real.

Don Frye 1:01:36 Oh, it... Believe me, it was real.

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 Well, Ken was one of the very first guys to really master heel hooks.

Don Frye 1:01:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 And use those in the UFC early on. Remember him?

Don Frye 1:01:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:45 My God.

Don Frye 1:01:46 Well, he, you know, had to hairline fracture both my freaking ankles, you know, for that.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 Did he really?

Don Frye 1:01:50 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you should have seen them. You know, we... My ex-wife and I, we would usually go from Japan to LA, you know, but that time we stopped in, uh, Hawaii and my, my ankles were this big, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:02:09 Just going... If I had went the whole way, you know, I wouldn't have been able... I could barely walk off that plane, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 Wow.

Don Frye 1:02:15 Yeah, it was, it was a little painful. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:17 Yeah, I can only imagine. Yeah. How many fights did you have over there in PRIDE?

Don Frye 1:02:23 (yawns) Not a lot, not a lot. Maybe, what, six or-

Joe Rogan 1:02:28 Six or seven?

Don Frye 1:02:29 (yawns) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:30 Something along those lines? Who do you think was your toughest fight over there?

Don Frye 1:02:35 Oh, geez. Takayama would have to be my toughest fight. I mean, it wasn't the prettiest thing.

Joe Rogan 1:02:45 But it was the most iconic.

Don Frye 1:02:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:02:47 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:02:48 You know what I mean? It wore, wore me out, you know? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 (laughs) I can only imagine, yeah.

Don Frye 1:02:53 I mean, physically and psychologically, I mean, you just... You just... Y- you go, "What the hell is going on here?"

Joe Rogan 1:03:02 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:03:04 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:04 (laughs)

Don Frye 1:03:06 It's, it was kind of frightening, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:08 You said something to me once, I'll never forget this, about the Ken Shamrock fight. You said, uh, that if you want to be honest, both of you left a little bit of yourself in that ring, and you were never the same afterwards.

Don Frye 1:03:20 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, never were.

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 Yeah. There's some of those fights that you think back, and you think back how you were before the fight and how you were after the fight, and they were just so crazy.

Don Frye 1:03:32 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:33 So much violence and it's just-

Don Frye 1:03:35 Well, just the preparation, too, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:03:38 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:03:39 I mean, the psychological preparation-

Joe Rogan 1:03:42 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:03:42 ... sometimes is harder than the physical preparation.

Joe Rogan 1:03:45 Really?

Don Frye 1:03:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:46 How so?

Don Frye 1:03:49 (sighs) You just got to... You have to separate yourself not only from your family, you know, your, your wife and your kids and your friends, but the whole world. You know what I mean? I completely understand what it's like to come out of prison, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:04:10 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 1:04:11 I mean, prison, not jail, but prison for a long t- 'Cause you are just... You, like I said, not to be redundant, but I am, but y- you completely separate yourself from everything, everything.

Joe Rogan 1:04:28 Mm-hmm. When you would prepare for these fights, where were you, uh, where were you training at, at the time?

Don Frye 1:04:37 Uh, there in Tucson. Um, a couple of times I had to leave, you know? Um, for the second Mark Coleman fight, you know, I went over, and, um, (yawns) I had Frank Shamrock, you know, train me.

Joe Rogan 1:04:53 Oh, really?

Don Frye 1:04:54 Yeah. And we couldn't train. I was so beat up, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:04:58 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 1:04:58 ... at that point in my, in my career. Uh, and we'd get up, you know, go have breakfast, go get a massage, go to the chiropractor, you know? Go, go to the... Get stretched, go to that. It was just hardly any, any fighting, you know? I would, um, just watch the fight on TV, you know? I mean, it was, it was all-

Joe Rogan 1:05:22 Mostly just trying to keep your body healthy.

Don Frye 1:05:24 (sighs) Yeah, just to show up, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:26 Wow. So what kind of, like, physical training were you able to do when you were that banged up?

Don Frye 1:05:30 Not much, you know? (laughs) I mean, um, like I said, we would just do stretching and just technique, you know? Basically, just technique.

Joe Rogan 1:05:40 Really?

Don Frye 1:05:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:41 What'd you do for conditioning?

Don Frye 1:05:44 (sighs) Hell, Joe, I don't even remember anymore.

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 Really?

Don Frye 1:05:47 Yeah, for that fight, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 'Cause Shamrock, Frank in particular, was always a stickler for conditioning.

Don Frye 1:05:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:52 He was always an amazing cardio.

Don Frye 1:05:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:55 I mean, that was one of his big weapons is he would put a pace on guys. That's what he did to Tito. That's what he did to Jon Lober in the rematch.

Don Frye 1:06:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:01 Just put some, put a pace on guys they couldn't keep up with.

Don Frye 1:06:04 Oh, Frank was amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:06:05 He was a... People forgot about Frank.

Don Frye 1:06:07 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:07 He was a beast.

Don Frye 1:06:08 He was an amazing athlete.

Joe Rogan 1:06:10 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:06:10 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:11 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:06:11 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:06:11 Remember when he, uh, arm barred Kevin Jackson?

Don Frye 1:06:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:14 Won the title? Yeah, no, he was a monster.

Don Frye 1:06:17 Yeah. That was... That's one of the things that, you know, I use an example. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 1:06:23 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 1:06:24 He was a gold medalist.

Joe Rogan 1:06:25 Yep.

Don Frye 1:06:25 You know? In, in the hardest discipline, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 And Frank caught him, what, 30 seconds into the first round?

Don Frye 1:06:31 Yeah, it was beautiful.

Joe Rogan 1:06:31 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:06:31 Just beautiful.

Joe Rogan 1:06:32 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:06:33 You know? And, and Jackson's a stud.

Joe Rogan 1:06:35 Oh, yeah.

Don Frye 1:06:36 You know?

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 A real stud, amazing wrestler.

Don Frye 1:06:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:38 Super athlete.

Don Frye 1:06:38 Have you ever worked out with him?

Joe Rogan 1:06:39 No, no.

Don Frye 1:06:40 Stronger than a fucking ox, man.

Joe Rogan 1:06:42 Oh, I could only imagine. I mean, all those elite wrestlers, the, the kind of strength those guys have. Remember when Royce Alger came over to the UFC and, uh, um-

Don Frye 1:06:50 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:06:50 ... Enson, Enson arm, arm barred him.

Don Frye 1:06:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:06:53 Fast, too.

Joe Rogan 1:06:53 Yeah, same thing. Caught him in an arm bar.

Don Frye 1:06:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:06:55 But so many wrestlers, they just didn't understand what they were getting into.

Don Frye 1:06:59 No.

Joe Rogan 1:06:59 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:07:00 That's the thing, you know? You (laughs) y- you know, they, they leave those arms out there-

Joe Rogan 1:07:05 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 1:07:06 ... and boom, they're snatched real fast.

Joe Rogan 1:07:08 So when you were training with Frank, how did you hook up with Frank? How did, uh, how did that take place, and where were you guys training?

Don Frye 1:07:15 Oh, yeah. We were at his house, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:07:19 Is that... Was he in California at the time?

Don Frye 1:07:20 Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 1:07:21 So you went up there and just trained with him?

Don Frye 1:07:23 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Did you camp with him?

Don Frye 1:07:24 'Cause I, you know, my... L- l- liked my career going up and down, my marriage, had a lot of that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:34 (laughs)

Don Frye 1:07:34 So (laughs) , you know? I needed to get the hell out of town, you know? 'Cause...

Joe Rogan 1:07:39 I get it.

Don Frye 1:07:39 Yeah, things weren't going good. And, um...

Joe Rogan 1:07:44 So how did you, uh, make that connection with Frank?

Don Frye 1:07:47 Hell, uh, trying to figure that one out. Um, if that was the second Coleman fight, so that was after F- Ken, right? But, uh, you know, I don't know how the hell that happened.

Joe Rogan 1:08:10 But he, uh, pre-

Don Frye 1:08:12 I called him. I called him.

Joe Rogan 1:08:13 You called him? "You need some help?"

Don Frye 1:08:14 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:14 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:08:15 I needed to get out of t- I think, uh, 'cause I had fought, uh, the French guy, the first French guy, um, New Year's Eve, um...

Joe Rogan 1:08:28 First French guy, not Le Banner.

Don Frye 1:08:30 No.

Joe Rogan 1:08:31 Uh, who was the other French guy?... French guy.

Don Frye 1:08:35 I don't even know.

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 MMA?

Don Frye 1:08:36 Huh?

Joe Rogan 1:08:36 See if you can pull up his career.

Don Frye 1:08:37 No, he was a kickboxer. And I boogered his eye up real bad, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:08:44 Who was that? I'm trying to remember.

Don Frye 1:08:47 I think it was-

Joe Rogan 1:08:47 See if you can find it.

Don Frye 1:08:48 ... it was Inoki. I think it was an Inoki show.

Joe Rogan 1:08:53 No, that's, uh ... It wasn't Dynamite, right? So it was, uh-

Don Frye 1:08:57 Yeah. It was a Dynamite show, right?

Joe Rogan 1:08:59 Well, that's Nakao. Nakao, Akebono.

Don Frye 1:09:03 No. No. It was a white guy. All the way ... Ciryl. Ciryl Abidi.

Joe Rogan 1:09:07 Oh, Ciryl Abidi. Oh, that's right. And you got him with a rear naked choke.

Don Frye 1:09:11 Yeah, Inoki Boombar, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:15 Mm. Man. So back then, when you, uh, trained with Frank, the Lion's Den was probably the first real mixed martial arts team-

Don Frye 1:09:26 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:09:26 ... where they were, like, really prepa- ... Them and Miletich Fighting Systems, right?

Don Frye 1:09:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:09:31 Pat Miletich's place and the Lion's Den. They were two of the very first guys that were really putting together a real, legit MMA team, where they had, like, real, like, for the time-

Don Frye 1:09:43 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:09:43 ... scientific training, real technique training, and really preparing guys for things.

Don Frye 1:09:48 Well, you know, like you said, you, y- ... They had a team.

Joe Rogan 1:09:53 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:09:53 You know? I had a group of guys, you know. Um, I had the first group of non-white guys. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:10:03 (laughs)

Don Frye 1:10:03 You know, all my guys were Mexican, you know, except for a couple white boys, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:10:07 Right, Arizona.

Don Frye 1:10:08 And, uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:09 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:10:09 And they're tough, tough guys, man. Loyal. You know, one guy was a former, uh, sniper in the SEALs. Another couple guys were, were, uh, former, uh, Marines. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:10:22 And what discipline would those guys have, martial arts-wise?

Don Frye 1:10:25 Basically, Judo and wrestling.

Joe Rogan 1:10:27 Judo and wrestling.

Don Frye 1:10:27 You know, but boxing too.

Joe Rogan 1:10:28 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 1:10:28 So the same thing I had.

Joe Rogan 1:10:30 So when you would prepare for a fight back then, did you have, like, a head trainer that was like-

Don Frye 1:10:35 Steve Owen was my head trainer.

Joe Rogan 1:10:37 And he w- he would prepare your camps and the whole deal?

Don Frye 1:10:40 Yeah. Yeah. Steve was amazing. You know, we'd call him the Evil Yoda, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:10:46 (laughs)

Don Frye 1:10:47 He is. He's ... He, he was a great, uh, Judo guy. Um, several times national Judo champion, couple-time world. I mean, just amazing. And he can look at a fight, you know, five minutes of a fight and boom, ha- have it ha- have, uh, the game plan drawn up.

Joe Rogan 1:11:10 And so he was one of the ... So he was one of the first guys that was in your, your camp that, like, s- set everything-

Don Frye 1:11:17 Oh, yeah. He was my ... He was my Judo sensei.

Joe Rogan 1:11:19 Oh, okay.

Don Frye 1:11:20 Okay? My first Judo sensei was a guy, um ... Fuck me now. Uh, Torres. What the ... Jesus Louise. Now I feel like an asshole.

Joe Rogan 1:11:36 No worries.

Don Frye 1:11:36 Now I, now I remember my sensei's name.

Joe Rogan 1:11:39 It happens.

Don Frye 1:11:41 Oh, what the fuck is his name? Kiyoki, Kiyoki Torres.

Joe Rogan 1:11:45 Oh.

Don Frye 1:11:45 Or George Torres, but he goes by Kiyoki. You know, he lives in Hawaii now. But, uh, Kiyoki was my first ... Um, he ran a kids', um, Judo club down there on Fort Huachuca. And, um, so I started going there on Saturday mor- mornings and Steve would come down. You know, he would work ... He'd ha- ... Up at Tucson. It'd be Monday, Tuesday, Thursday nights, and then he'd come down Saturday morning for the kids, you know, but the rest is up at Tucson. So, um, he- ... I would drive up there, you know, um, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday night. I'd go up there and train, and, uh, then jump in the truck and drive home, you know. Get home at midnight, 1:00 in the morning, you know, 'cause I would always, uh, feed my guys, you know. After, after we worked out, I'd take 'em out for dinner, you know, and a couple beers for me, you know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:52 (laughs)

Don Frye 1:12:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:52 Even in training?

Don Frye 1:12:53 Yeah. Oh, hell yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:54 Up until, like, the fight?

Don Frye 1:12:56 Oh, night before. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:58 (laughs) Really?

Don Frye 1:12:58 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:59 Wow. So you and Cowboy Cerrone.

Don Frye 1:13:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:02 And Cowboy still does that. He, he, he keeps drinking.

Don Frye 1:13:06 Yeah. I mean, th- the ... One of the worst night- ... I lost to a fucking idiot I shouldn't have lost to because, um, my ex- ... My wife at the time decided I was drinking too much and taking too many pills, so her and, uh, a couple of the guys took my booze and my pills the night before the fight. And I started going through withdrawals during the fucking fight. (snores)

Joe Rogan 1:13:35 No.

Don Frye 1:13:36 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:13:38 That was something someone told me the other day that I could not believe. They were telling me, and I don't want to name any names, but big time fighters, particularly kickboxers, that fought on heroin.

Don Frye 1:13:51 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:13:51 Or fought on pills. They put ... Fought on opiates.

Don Frye 1:13:53 Yeah, I did that. That's when my career went to shit.

Joe Rogan 1:13:56 Yeah? And it was just because of all the pain that you were in, right? I mean, you said that by the time of Ciryl Abidi fight, you were already banged up to the point where you could barely train.

Don Frye 1:14:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:05 But you think about how long your career went after that. It's crazy. I mean, you had your-

Don Frye 1:14:09 No, that was the Coleman fight.

Joe Rogan 1:14:10 Oh, it was the Coleman fight.

Don Frye 1:14:11 Yeah. That was so fucked up. Remember, I met ... Frank, Frank had trained Ciryl for a fight me, and then I, I called Frank to train me for the Coleman fight, you know, because-

Joe Rogan 1:14:24 But you had f- a lot of fights even after that.

Don Frye 1:14:26 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:28 I mean, it's kind of cra- ... You rode that motherfucker till the wheels fell off. (laughs)

Don Frye 1:14:31 Yeah. When the frame fell off, man.

Joe Rogan 1:14:35 (laughs) The frame.

Don Frye 1:14:35 That's ... You should have seen the frame.

Joe Rogan 1:14:36 Exactly. They re- ... They had to redo your frame.

Don Frye 1:14:38 (laughs) Yeah. Frame of restoration, yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:14:42 Yeah. (laughs) Right down to the bare chassis. So when you ... Your last fight was what? 2011? Somewhere along there?

Don Frye 1:14:48 Uh, yes, sir. It was-

Joe Rogan 1:14:49 Kind of crazy.

Don Frye 1:14:51 ... five months after my fifth back surgery.

Joe Rogan 1:14:55 Wow. Five months after your fifth back surgery, you got a fight?

Don Frye 1:15:00 Yeah, stupid. Fucking stupid.

Joe Rogan 1:15:02 But you want, you will ... You still want to do it right now. The, the thing about guys like you, it's like you never lose the itch.

Don Frye 1:15:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:15:09 It's your body just fails you.

Don Frye 1:15:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:15:11 Your bo- ... And the tougher the guy, the more the body starts to fall apart because you're willing to train through pain.

Don Frye 1:15:16 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:15:17 You look at guys like, um, I mean, uh, Cain Velasquez is a great example. One of the greatest of all times, but his body just couldn't hang in there. His, his knees blew out, his back blew out, his neck blew out, his shoulders blew out. He had all these surgeries and eventually just stopped being the guy that everybody knew was Cain, you know?

Don Frye 1:15:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:15:35 His, his body just wouldn't do what his mind could do.

Don Frye 1:15:37 Yeah, you lose.

Joe Rogan 1:15:39 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:15:40 Yeah. You, you learn that in p- in, in amateur wrestling, though, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:15:45 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:15:45 You learn to keep going.

Joe Rogan 1:15:46 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:15:47 You, you know, um... I think I broke ... I first broke my neck when I was in college, and, um, didn't know it. I thought I'd fucked up my shoulder, you know. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:16:03 'Cause it was shooting down your shoulder?

Don Frye 1:16:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:05 Yeah.

Don Frye 1:16:05 Yeah. And, um, so what happened was, uh, Dan Severn's little baby brother, Rod, and I, we were roommates, and we went down, uh, to my parents' house, um, for Thanksgiving or something. Anyways, we were out on those fucking three-wheelers.

Joe Rogan 1:16:26 Oh, no.

Don Frye 1:16:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:27 That's how you did it?

Don Frye 1:16:28 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:16:29 Oh, no.

Don Frye 1:16:29 Drinking and going over and, and, um, you know, last, last jump of the day.

Joe Rogan 1:16:35 Oh, no.

Don Frye 1:16:36 Ended up being the last jump. (laughs) Uh, you know, uh, we've been there for a couple of hours, gone through a few cases of beer, and truck, truck pulls up, and, uh, they get out, you know. "Look, look at the little sissies," you know, 'cause they had the shoulder pads, the knee pads, the gloves, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:16:57 Right.

Don Frye 1:16:57 ... all that and, you know, laughing at them. And so then I go off, jump front tire first, boom, boom, boom.

Joe Rogan 1:17:04 Oh, no.

Don Frye 1:17:05 Yeah. So I thought I tore up my shoulder, but, um, 20 years later when they did my neck, the guy said, "When'd you break your f- fir- when'd you ... The first time you broke your neck?" You know.

Joe Rogan 1:17:19 And you didn't know you'd ever broken your neck?

Don Frye 1:17:21 No, didn't know. But I wrestled, you know, I, I kept ... That was, um, in '88, '87. '86, '87. And then I, I sat out a year in, in amateur wrestling because of the injury.

Joe Rogan 1:17:40 'Cause of your neck?

Don Frye 1:17:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:17:42 Wow.

Don Frye 1:17:42 Yeah. I thought it was the shoulder, but it was the neck, but ... And then I rehabbed it, you know, and, um ... 'Cause they redid the shoulder. Uh, they cut off the end of clavicle bone back then. It was how they would solve shit.

Joe Rogan 1:17:57 What did they do?

Don Frye 1:17:58 Cut off the end of my clavicle bone.

Joe Rogan 1:18:00 They cut off the end of it?

Don Frye 1:18:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:02 Really?

Don Frye 1:18:03 Yeah. 'Cause it was just destroyed, so they just lob it off, throw it away, you know.

Joe Rogan 1:18:07 Wow.

Don Frye 1:18:08 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:18:09 Really? Holy shit.

Don Frye 1:18:11 And, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:18:11 That's early 90s sur- surgeries?

Don Frye 1:18:13 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:14 Fuck.

Don Frye 1:18:15 '80s.

Joe Rogan 1:18:16 '80s?

Don Frye 1:18:16 At the end of the '80s. And then, um ... Geez oh freaking gah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:23 Kurt Angle wrestled in the Olympics with a broken neck, didn't he?

Don Frye 1:18:25 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:26 He won the gold medal-

Don Frye 1:18:27 Amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:18:27 ... with a broken neck.

Don Frye 1:18:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:18:28 Crazy. Yeah. There's-

Don Frye 1:18:30 I-

Joe Rogan 1:18:30 ... is no one tougher than wrestlers.

Don Frye 1:18:32 Yeah. I know I'd ... Fuck. They cut, they fixed the shoulder, cut off the ... It was the right shoulder, I think. Yeah, yeah, it was the right shoulder. And, um, so they put me ... Bobby Douglas put me on a medical scholarship, you know, so it would open up-

Joe Rogan 1:18:56 Mm-hmm.

Don Frye 1:18:56 ... a scholarship for the team, which is what needed to be done. And, um, so I c- so then I rehabbed it through '87, and then partway through '88, you know,