JRE MMA Show #113 with Chad Mendes

1. 0:00 – 2:40

   Retirement from fighting, identity shifts, and staying busy post-UFC

   1. CMChad Mendes0:00

      (drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) All right, we're up and running. Money Mendez, what's up?

   3. CMChad Mendes0:14

      What ... What's happening? Yeah. (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      Good to see you, brother.

   5. CMChad Mendes0:15

      Thanks for having me.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      Finally, man. We've been talking about doing this a long time.

   7. CMChad Mendes0:18

      Too long, bro.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      Oh, Jesus.

   9. CMChad Mendes0:19

      Whoa. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       Look at that, Jamie. We splattered. I tried to, uh-

   11. CMChad Mendes0:23

       Oh, we got it sorted.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:23

       ... push the plunger down on the, uh, French press and it, it splattered everywhere. So if my microphone explodes-

   13. CMChad Mendes0:30

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       ... we know why. Sorry, this, uh, this table needed a little seasoning.

   15. CMChad Mendes0:35

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan0:36

       Needed some color.

   17. CMChad Mendes0:36

       I'm gonna throw one over here. I'll get this thing.

   18. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       It's all right. So, uh, what's happening, man? How you doing? How's the retirement life?

   19. CMChad Mendes0:42

       Oh, man.

   20. JRJoe Rogan0:43

       Well, retirement from fighting, but-

   21. CMChad Mendes0:45

       Yeah, not ...

   22. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       But maybe not really.

   23. CMChad Mendes0:47

       No, man. I'm actually more busy now not fighting. I'm actually, uh ... I wanna get back into the training part of it so it can slow down a little bit. But it's been good, dude. It's, uh ... We got a ton of stuff going on, a lot of stuff on the plate. My wife's about to kill me, but ...

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       (laughs)

   25. CMChad Mendes1:04

       (laughs) But we got some shit going.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       What, for y- you're working too much?

   27. CMChad Mendes1:07

       Too much, man. Way too much. But it's good, man. I, I ... You know, after fighting, I had to channel that, like, that energy of getting shit going and, and being successful somewhere. I almost felt like I jumped into a little bit of a depression there for, like, a couple weeks after, because I had, like, no sense of doing, you know.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:29

       Right.

   29. CMChad Mendes1:29

       And so I was like, "Fuck it. I'm gonna start just gr- trying to grow a couple brands and, and building a couple companies and see what happens." So I was like, honed all my energy onto that stuff, and, uh, uh, it definitely took over. So it's, it's been nice. It's been fun being able to just basically channel that stuff into that and let it rip.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:47

       It's one of the most difficult things for a fighter is the stopping fighting, but you don't know what to do with all this-
2. 2:40 – 3:41

   Longevity in combat sports: Randy Couture, Dan Henderson, and rare late-career outliers

   1. JRJoe Rogan2:40

      And how old are you now?

   2. CMChad Mendes2:41

      36. I just turned 36 in May.

   3. JRJoe Rogan2:43

      So you're still in this, like, athletic zone-

   4. CMChad Mendes2:46

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan2:46

      ... where you're still ... You know, until you're in the ... Once you're around 40, people start going, "Man."

   6. CMChad Mendes2:53

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan2:53

      "Time to do something else."

   8. CMChad Mendes2:55

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan2:55

      But 36, it's like, man. Anderson was in his prime at 36.

   10. CMChad Mendes2:58

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:59

       You know?

   12. CMChad Mendes2:59

       I was gonna say, unless you're Dan Hindo-

   13. JRJoe Rogan3:00

       Right.

   14. CMChad Mendes3:01

       ... or even Couture, but those are freaks.

   15. JRJoe Rogan3:03

       Those are real ... Well, f- Couture didn't even start his career, I think, until he was 35.

   16. CMChad Mendes3:08

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan3:09

       I do- ... I wanna say he might have been ... It was '34 or '35 with his first UFC fight.

   18. CMChad Mendes3:14

       Yeah. It's crazy.

   19. JRJoe Rogan3:16

       Let's find out what that is, find out. It's like 1997. I was there for it. That was the tournament, and it was, uh ... It was the same weekend that Tito Ortiz had his first fight, Guy Metzger had his first fight. Um, like, Tito beat Wes Albright.

   20. CMChad Mendes3:33

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       I don't know how I remember that. And then he fought Guy, and Guy tapped him out. Guy caught him in a guillotine.

   22. CMChad Mendes3:38

       Yep. I remember watching those.

   23. JRJoe Rogan3:40

       Yeah.

3. 3:41 – 8:24

   Early UFC nostalgia: Blockbuster tapes, VHS events, and the wild west rule era

   1. CMChad Mendes3:41

      I, I remember going to, um, uh, Blockbuster. Do you remember Blockbuster?

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:45

      Sure. (laughs)

   3. CMChad Mendes3:46

      Yeah. Me and my brothers would ride over there on our, on our bikes, and I'd go straight to the, the section that had all the VHS for the UFC-

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:53

      Yeah.

   5. CMChad Mendes3:53

      ... events, and g-

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:54

      Right next to, like, Faces of Death. (laughs)

   7. CMChad Mendes3:56

      Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yep. We'd grab as many as we could, take them home and sit there and just watch them for hours.

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:01

      Yeah.

   9. CMChad Mendes4:01

      Yeah, man. It was cool.

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:02

       I remember. I, I believe it was UFC 2 was the only one that was available. I, I, I believe you couldn't get UFC 1 on VHS for a while.

   11. CMChad Mendes4:09

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:09

       'Cause I think Rorion Gracie owned it or something.

   13. CMChad Mendes4:12

       I don't know.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:12

       I might be wrong about that. Yeah. He would have been, like, turning 34 that year. Aha. There you go. A couple months ... Like a month after. There you go.

   15. CMChad Mendes4:18

       That's crazy, man.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:19

       Yeah. 34 starting his career and goes on to become the light heavyweight and the heavyweight champion.

   17. CMChad Mendes4:25

       One of the best in the world. Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:26

       One of the best ever, and then fights, like, well ... for more than 10 years. So this is '97. When did he retire from the UFC?

   19. CMChad Mendes4:35

       I thought he was, like, 43 or 4-

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:38

       Man. I mean, he fought Lyoto Machida. He was, like ... He was deep in his 40s.

   21. CMChad Mendes4:43

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan4:44

       Or in his 40s.

   23. CMChad Mendes4:46

       He wouldn't have been closer to 50. Would he have been? He c-

   24. JRJoe Rogan4:50

       Well, when did he fight Lyoto Machida?

   25. CMChad Mendes4:51

       No, I can't-

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:52

       2011. 2011. He would have been retired in 2011. Wow. Yeah. Dude, that's crazy. Fourteen years in. So yeah.

   27. CMChad Mendes5:01

       I can tell you I'm not fighting that long. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:03

       So he's 48. He was 48.

   29. CMChad Mendes5:05

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:05

       Yeah. He's 48 when he fought Machida.
4. 8:24 – 14:29

   Fighter pay realities, bonuses, and the risk of cancellations and bad judging

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:24

      I mean, they, they still exist. You know, Francis Ngannou had a very good point the other day that there should be some protection for fighters because, you know, losing half of your purse-

   2. CMChad Mendes8:32

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:32

      ... because someone made a bad call, there should be a way around that.

   4. CMChad Mendes8:36

      That's, that's funny you say that 'cause I, years ago, was talking with a buddy of mine and we were thinking of like an insurance plan for fighters-

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:43

      Mm-hmm.

   6. CMChad Mendes8:43

      ... just for that reason right there. For injuries, like say you're, you're... 'Cause this is a shitty thing that I don't... I mean, a lot of people probably know this, but you go through a 10-week training camp, and this has happened to me multiple times in my fight, in, in some fights, where the week before the fight, your, your opponent gets injured, they back out, they can't find anybody to fill in, and now your fight doesn't happen.

   7. JRJoe Rogan9:04

      Right.

   8. CMChad Mendes9:04

      Well, guess what? You just went through all that training, paying your trainers, you know, you still got to pay managers and everything-

   9. JRJoe Rogan9:10

      Yep.

   10. CMChad Mendes9:10

       ... for, for every- everything they do work-wise. You don't get paid.

   11. JRJoe Rogan9:14

       Yeah.

   12. CMChad Mendes9:14

       So you're just like, "Damn it, man." And then you get pushed back-

   13. JRJoe Rogan9:16

       And for some fighters-

   14. CMChad Mendes9:16

       ... two months.

   15. JRJoe Rogan9:16

       ... if you get injured after that, you're talk... I mean, what, what if you tear an ACL after that?

   16. CMChad Mendes9:20

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:20

       Then you're a year and a half out.

   18. CMChad Mendes9:22

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:22

       Like, oh, Jesus Christ.

   20. CMChad Mendes9:23

       Yeah, but yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan9:25

       Yeah, it's a hard world.

   22. CMChad Mendes9:26

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:26

       It's a hard world.

   24. CMChad Mendes9:27

       I wish somebody would come up with... I don't have the capacity now to do it, but (laughs) I think it would be a smart business move, and it would be cool for fighters to have, for sure.

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:35

       (clicks tongue) Well, you know, there's a lot of uproar this weekend because of, uh... Who's the gal that was in the co-main event who won and then she got the $50,000, uh, win bonus?

   26. CMChad Mendes9:45

       Yeah, I saw. I saw the videos, uh-

   27. JRJoe Rogan9:46

       See if you can pull up her, her name. And people were really mad at the UFC because of her reaction, 'cause it changed her life.

   28. CMChad Mendes9:54

       Mm-hmm. Was-

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:55

       And... Go ahead.

   30. CMChad Mendes9:57

       Was this the same girl that I saw started a GoFundMe page or something?
5. 14:29 – 19:08

   Big weight cuts, ‘sanctioned cheating,’ and why more weight classes could help

   1. CMChad Mendes14:29

      I'm so, I'm so against big weight cuts, man.

   2. JRJoe Rogan14:31

      Yeah.

   3. CMChad Mendes14:31

      I fucking hate it. I, you know, I cut tons of weight throughout college for wrestling, and, you know, my senior year, I finally just put my foot down and was like, "Look, I'm going up two weight classes. I'm not cutting to 125s anymore."

   4. JRJoe Rogan14:44

      Wow.

   5. CMChad Mendes14:44

      Dude, I used to cut to 125s, and I was making weight two times a week, you know, wrestling. And I went up to 141s and was undefeated the entire year. My only loss came in the NCAA finals. It's the best I had ever felt, and I'm like, "Dude, why did I not do that my whole life?"

   6. JRJoe Rogan14:59

      Isn't it amazing?

   7. CMChad Mendes15:00

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      It's like you're doing this ... I- I'm, I'm fully against weight cutting in MMA.

   9. CMChad Mendes15:05

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:05

       Period. And you could probably apply it to all combat sports, because I think what it is, even though, uh ... It's no disrespect to anybody who does it, but I think it's sanctioned cheating. I really do.

   11. CMChad Mendes15:16

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:16

       'Cause if you're saying you're the ... Like, let's say, uh, Kamaru Usman is the 170-pound champion. Kamaru Usman weighs 170 pounds for about 20 minutes.

   13. CMChad Mendes15:24

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:25

       I mean, that guy is massive.

   15. CMChad Mendes15:27

       (laughs)

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:27

       You know? He's, he's a solid 200 or close to it.

   17. CMChad Mendes15:30

       Oh, yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       He's a thick fella.

   19. CMChad Mendes15:31

       Uh-huh.

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:32

       You know? He's not really 170 pounds. And that's n- no fault of his own. Everybody he fights is the same way.

   21. CMChad Mendes15:38

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan15:38

       Whether it's Masvidal or, you know, you know, all of them, everybody he fights. They're all big people.

   23. CMChad Mendes15:44

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JRJoe Rogan15:45

       You know, Tyron was a, a giant guy at 170. He was never really 170 either.

   25. CMChad Mendes15:49

       No.

   26. JRJoe Rogan15:49

       But if they just fought at their weight class, like what they actually weigh, I think they would feel better. They'd perform better. I think you'd, you'd have a longer career. You'd probably have less injuries, more-

   27. CMChad Mendes16:01

       More exciting fights, I think.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:02

       ... exciting fights.

   29. CMChad Mendes16:02

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:02

       You'd have more energy.
6. 19:08 – 20:43

   Dietician protocols, dehydration concerns, and the Frankie Edgar KO reflection

   1. CMChad Mendes19:08

      Yeah. Dude, and I ... My Frankie fight, I think I, I messed up big time. I, I was using, um, (smacks lips) uh ... God, I can't remember his name. Um, it was a dietician, which I'd never used any through any of my fights before that.

   2. JRJoe Rogan19:21

      You've never used any, like Dolce or any of those guys?

   3. CMChad Mendes19:24

      I never did. Like I, I asked them for some advice here and there from time to time, but, God, I can't remember this dude. It's, uh-

   4. JRJoe Rogan19:29

      Lockhart?

   5. CMChad Mendes19:30

      Lockhart. Yep. And used th- those guys, and it was a whole system and there was, like, natural diuretics that you use and, you know, and I'd never done any of that. And I just think it dehydrated my head too much or something. Like-

   6. JRJoe Rogan19:42

      Really?

   7. CMChad Mendes19:43

      I mean, if you watched the fight, Frankie, like, barely clipped my nose and it was just, like, lights out.

   8. JRJoe Rogan19:48

      Wow.

   9. CMChad Mendes19:48

      You know? I've been hit ... fucking been hit by f- Aldo harder than that-

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:52

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CMChad Mendes19:52

       ... and just, like, bounced back, you know? And it's like ... I don't know. It's just one of those things. Like, I never did that after. But-

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:59

       Well, a lot of people, like, when they make a cut ... Like, Aldo's a good example, right? Like, Aldo was the king at 45 forever. Now he's figured out how to get to 35-

   13. CMChad Mendes20:08

       Mm-hmm. It's insane.

   14. JRJoe Rogan20:08

       ... and he looks fucking great.

   15. CMChad Mendes20:09

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan20:10

       Looks great at 35. But he had to figure it out.

   17. CMChad Mendes20:13

       Mm-hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan20:13

       He had to dial it in. And he had to do it several times until he really got it down.

   19. CMChad Mendes20:17

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JRJoe Rogan20:17

       And now he's-

   21. CMChad Mendes20:17

       I think he, too. He's lost musc- a lot of muscle mass.

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:20

       Mm-hmm.

   23. CMChad Mendes20:20

       You gotta ... You have to.

   24. JRJoe Rogan20:21

       Yeah.

   25. CMChad Mendes20:21

       Like, when I cut to 25s, like, I just ha- You gotta do a lot of fasting, like fasted cardio, fasted workouts to where your body's basically eating your muscle.

   26. JRJoe Rogan20:31

       Mm-hmm. Yep.

   27. CMChad Mendes20:32

       You know, you feel like shit when it's happening, but you're shrinking up. And then once you get to that point where you, you know, where you wanna be, your body kinda adjusts and gets used to it. And now, now that's your, your size, you know?

7. 20:43 – 24:49

   Extreme endurance mindset: Cam Hanes, David Goggins, and adaptation through pain

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:43

      Yeah. When Cam was racing, when he was running, um, the Moab 240, he, he ... I forget what the exact calorie count was, but what he did was he b- like, let's say, burned 3,000 calories, ate 2,500 calories.

   2. CMChad Mendes20:57

      Yeah. Mm-hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:57

      And I was like, "Fuck."

   4. CMChad Mendes20:59

      (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:59

      Just hearing that made me tired.

   6. CMChad Mendes21:01

      Uh-huh. (laughs) Dude, I-

   7. JRJoe Rogan21:02

      That's what he did.

   8. CMChad Mendes21:03

      He's a beast, man. That guy's such a beast.

   9. JRJoe Rogan21:06

      He's got discipline on top of discipline.

   10. CMChad Mendes21:08

       It's crazy.

   11. JRJoe Rogan21:08

       It's, it's, it's a wild thing to see.

   12. CMChad Mendes21:10

       I wish I could find that mindset that Cam has.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:13

       (laughs)

   14. CMChad Mendes21:13

       Like, how ... Like, where do you find that? I don't think you can, but ...

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:17

       Well, I mean, he's sort of cultivated it over his life, you know?

   16. CMChad Mendes21:22

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:22

       And he's just made it more and more focused as he's gotten older and older-

   18. CMChad Mendes21:26

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan21:26

       ... and, and gotten used to the grind. And it's become just a natural part of his life. But it's ... What's fascinating is it's self-imposed, you know?

   20. CMChad Mendes21:33

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan21:33

       It's very few people have that kind of discipline. The, the only ones I know of like him are like him and Goggins.

   22. CMChad Mendes21:39

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JRJoe Rogan21:40

       And the difference between him is he has a full-time job, which is really crazy.

   24. CMChad Mendes21:44

       Yeah. It's nuts.

   25. JRJoe Rogan21:44

       Full-time nine-to-five job and still has time-

   26. CMChad Mendes21:47

       And then-

   27. JRJoe Rogan21:47

       ... to do all that other shit.

   28. CMChad Mendes21:48

       And then he'll go run a marathon, right?

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:50

       Yeah. Yeah. He'll run a marathon a day.

   30. CMChad Mendes21:52

       A day. A day.
8. 24:49 – 27:39

   Major announcement: Chad Mendes returns—via boxing and bare-knuckle

   1. JRJoe Rogan24:49

      Yeah. Um, do you wanna talk about that thing that you might be doing?

   2. CMChad Mendes24:54

      Yeah, let's do it. We got a big announcement.

   3. JRJoe Rogan24:55

      Push this microphone in front of you.

   4. CMChad Mendes24:56

      That's it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan24:57

      You just get ... there you go, like that. So tell me, what is th- what is this announcement? What's going on? Go on.

   6. CMChad Mendes25:01

      So I just signed a big contract, bro. I'm coming back to fighting.

   7. JRJoe Rogan25:04

      Oh, no.

   8. CMChad Mendes25:04

      Yeah. In the great words of TJ Dillashaw, "Daddy's home, bitches."

   9. JRJoe Rogan25:09

      (laughs)

   10. CMChad Mendes25:10

       (laughs) But I'm not coming back to MMA, man. Uh, I know that ... I've been seeing a lot of people's comment and they're kinda hoping that I am. Um, I'm coming back to boxing, man. I wanna try something different.

   11. JRJoe Rogan25:22

       Now, you coming back to regular boxing or are you gonna do bare knuckle boxing?

   12. CMChad Mendes25:26

       I think we're gonna throw some bare knuckle in there, bro. Just mix it up, get real crazy.

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:31

       Now, I've seen you, you're working out a lot.

   14. CMChad Mendes25:34

       Mm-hmm.

   15. JRJoe Rogan25:34

       You're hitting a lot of mitts. Like, were you doing that before or did you just have this ... D- did they contact you? Like, how did this come about?

   16. CMChad Mendes25:41

       So we've (sighs) I mean, this is actually something that's kinda been in the works for probably a year now.

   17. JRJoe Rogan25:46

       Really?

   18. CMChad Mendes25:46

       Um, you know, I just ... For me ... Look, I just turned 36 in May and we were just talking about still having that, that desire. Like, when I, when I left the UFC, I was just about to have my first baby. Um, you know, we had... I had a lot on my plate. There was ... Obviously, I j- had just lost, but even going into that fight, (sighs) I had started a company, was working on a few other companies, and there was a lot that I was more excited about than competing at the time. And I mean, obviously we know that this sport is so brutal. Like, you ... If you don't have 100% mindset into it, you're gonna get fucked up, you know?

   19. JRJoe Rogan26:22

       Hmm.

   20. CMChad Mendes26:22

       And it's ... For me, I was like, "Look, dude, I'm gonna take some time off." Um, "I'm gonna ... Or just, or just end it here. I have other things going on, and we'll see kinda what happens in the future." So, I decided to retire, talked it over with the wife, and that was, you know, what the game plan was. So, uh, fast-forward two and a half years later, um, you know, obviously I still have that desire. Um, and obviously my gr- my baby girl is bigger now. We are, uh, pregnant with a second and, uh, I just started thinking like, "Man, I'm getting older. I don't wanna get into my 40s and then basically still have this desire to compete and be like, it's too fucking late." You know? So I'm like, "Y- let's, let's start talking to some of these guys." I've always wanted to box, you know? Coming off of wrestling ... My s- my style even in the UFC was boxing and wrestling were probably my two favorite things to do. Like, I absolutely loved boxing sparring when I would be training through tu- through training camps, um, and then obviously wrestling too. But, um, I always wanted to try and compete in some type of boxing competition, um, and so, uh, bare knuckle actually reached out to Faber and was like, "Hey, do you think Mendes would ever be interested in this?" And I'm like, "I mean, I probably never thought about anything bare knuckle before, but, you know, boxing definitely would be fun."

9. 27:39 – 32:15

   Bare-knuckle logistics: hand wraps, timing, weight class, rounds, and UFC permission

   1. JRJoe Rogan27:39

      Let me ask you this about bare knuckle. Why, why do they have those, like, really thick wraps that go all around the hand, but just expose the knuckle?

   2. CMChad Mendes27:46

      Mm-hmm. I'm ... And, and it's not-

   3. JRJoe Rogan27:48

      Seems strange.

   4. CMChad Mendes27:48

      ... mandatory on anybody. Like, I see some guys where they just tape their hand.

   5. JRJoe Rogan27:51

      Right.

   6. CMChad Mendes27:52

      But I, I think a lot of people do that for wrist support.

   7. JRJoe Rogan27:54

      Right.

   8. CMChad Mendes27:55

      Like, you know, obviously you punch, like, a bag with no support on your wrist and a lot of the times it folds.

   9. JRJoe Rogan28:01

      But didn't Joe Riggs get his eye cut because of one of the, uh ... when he fought Lombard? Didn't the wrap actually scrape his eye?

   10. CMChad Mendes28:09

       I heard that, yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan28:10

       Hmm.

   12. CMChad Mendes28:10

       And it's ... You know, the ... I think that this is an organization that's still very brand new and they're s- probably still working all these kinks out. But, um, I mean, I'm probably gonna r- tape the shit out of my wrist, uh-

   13. JRJoe Rogan28:22

       Yeah.

   14. CMChad Mendes28:22

       ... just for the, for the reason of support, but yeah, I think that's something that's, you know, it's definitely a possibility of getting cut on that stuff. But-

   15. JRJoe Rogan28:30

       Do you know when you're fighting?

   16. CMChad Mendes28:32

       October 22nd.

   17. JRJoe Rogan28:33

       Oh, Jesus.

   18. CMChad Mendes28:34

       Man-

   19. JRJoe Rogan28:34

       It's coming up.

   20. CMChad Mendes28:35

       October 22nd.

   21. JRJoe Rogan28:36

       Do you have an opponent?

   22. CMChad Mendes28:37

       No opponent yet, but it's, uh-

   23. JRJoe Rogan28:38

       Really?

   24. CMChad Mendes28:38

       ... Chandler, Arizona is what they're saying, so.

   25. JRJoe Rogan28:40

       What weight?

   26. CMChad Mendes28:41

       155s.

   27. JRJoe Rogan28:42

       Okay.

   28. CMChad Mendes28:43

       So-

   29. JRJoe Rogan28:43

       So you're not gonna have to cut-

   30. CMChad Mendes28:44

       No-
10. 32:15 – 39:18

    Bare-knuckle’s growth, ex-UFC talent pipeline, and ‘bare-knuckle MMA’ ideas

    1. JRJoe Rogan32:15

       It's interesting how they're going after so many former UFC fighters. I mean, it's smart, right? These people are already famous. You know, they got Paige Vanzant, Hector Lombard.

    2. CMChad Mendes32:26

       Mm-hmm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan32:26

       Um, you now. Who else is over there? I know, uh, Leonard Garcia.

    4. CMChad Mendes32:31

       Oh.

    5. JRJoe Rogan32:31

       Who else? Uh ...

    6. CMChad Mendes32:33

       Uh, Rochelle, uh, she just fought Paige. Uh, Is it Ostevich? Os-

    7. JRJoe Rogan32:39

       Rachel Ostevich.

    8. CMChad Mendes32:39

       Ostevich, yes.

    9. JRJoe Rogan32:40

       Yeah, yeah. Um-

    10. CMChad Mendes32:41

        Did you already say her? Sorry.

    11. JRJoe Rogan32:42

        No, no, no, I didn't say her.

    12. CMChad Mendes32:43

        Um, I'm just trying to ...

    13. JRJoe Rogan32:44

        Uh, so, they're doing a smart thing where they're getting-

    14. CMChad Mendes32:48

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JRJoe Rogan32:48

        ... popular fighters or, who are, you know, known for UFC fights mostly, and then just introducing the bare knuckle world to them.

    16. CMChad Mendes33:00

        Yeah.

    17. JRJoe Rogan33:00

        And I know it's growing, right? I mean, it's, it's, it's, people are paying attention now. They're watching a lot of fights.

    18. CMChad Mendes33:05

        Yeah. I, I know, uh, Forbes just did a write up saying that it's the fastest growing combat sport in the world right now, you know, and ...

    19. JRJoe Rogan33:12

        Well, I always thought that, like, it was weird that you could els- elbow somebody in the face.

    20. CMChad Mendes33:17

        Mm-hmm.

    21. JRJoe Rogan33:17

        You could head kick somebody with a bare shin. You can knee them in the nose with no pads, but your hands are covered-

    22. CMChad Mendes33:23

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan33:23

        ... with a pad.

    24. CMChad Mendes33:24

        (laughs)

    25. JRJoe Rogan33:24

        I was, I was like ... But I used to say, like, "Why don't we just go bare knuckle?" Because first of all, it'll make grappling more realistic.

    26. CMChad Mendes33:32

        Mm-hmm.

    27. JRJoe Rogan33:32

        Like submissions.

    28. CMChad Mendes33:33

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JRJoe Rogan33:33

        You could sink in chokes and stuff much easier.

    30. CMChad Mendes33:36

        100%.
11. 39:18 – 42:13

    Evolving fight formats: cage effects, open-field fighting, and Russian ‘team fight’ chaos

    1. JRJoe Rogan39:18

       I've said for a long time they should have it on a, like a football field.

    2. CMChad Mendes39:22

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan39:22

       Like, no-

    4. CMChad Mendes39:23

       (laughs)

    5. JRJoe Rogan39:23

       No more cages.

    6. CMChad Mendes39:24

       Uh-huh.

    7. JRJoe Rogan39:24

       Because the cage is a big factor. It's a big factor in the fight. I mean, if you can have basketball and you have it on this big ass court, how come you can't have a fight on a big ass court?

    8. CMChad Mendes39:33

       That's true. Yeah.

    9. JRJoe Rogan39:33

       Just pad the shit out of it.

    10. CMChad Mendes39:35

        (laughs)

    11. JRJoe Rogan39:35

        You know? (laughs) Make it so that, uh, there's like a, an area where you can't pass. You know?

    12. CMChad Mendes39:43

        And you just chase each other down and beat the shit out of each other.

    13. JRJoe Rogan39:46

        Yeah. Don't, you know, don't let anybody run away. You can't-

    14. CMChad Mendes39:49

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JRJoe Rogan39:49

        ... just run away. You, like, you lose points for running away. But lateral movement's good.

    16. CMChad Mendes39:53

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JRJoe Rogan39:53

        Footwork is good. But-

    18. CMChad Mendes39:54

        Basically, there's no walls anywhere.

    19. JRJoe Rogan39:56

        Yeah. Right.

    20. CMChad Mendes39:56

        So it's like you're just out in the open fighting.

    21. JRJoe Rogan39:58

        'Cause think about like takedowns. Takedowns occur so often up against a cage.

    22. CMChad Mendes40:03

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JRJoe Rogan40:04

        Right? I mean, that's a big part of the strategy of getting someone up against a cage is taking them down. And then people use the cage to get back up onto their feet. Think about how few takedowns you'd have or h- or m- many less takedowns you'd have if you had no cage, and also how few people would get up.

    24. CMChad Mendes40:21

        It's true.

    25. JRJoe Rogan40:22

        Get up less.

    26. CMChad Mendes40:22

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan40:23

        Yeah. It'd be more realistic.

    28. CMChad Mendes40:24

        Mm-hmm.

    29. JRJoe Rogan40:25

        Because the cages is a factor.

    30. CMChad Mendes40:27

        Yeah.
12. 42:13 – 46:39

    Old-school MMA rules, early gloves/shoes, and Lion’s Den ‘break you’ training culture

    1. JRJoe Rogan42:13

       I mean, when I first started doing commentary in '97 people didn't have gloves except Vitor and Tank and Scott Fairoza. Scott Fairoza had gloves too.

    2. CMChad Mendes42:21

       Hm.

    3. JRJoe Rogan42:22

       Most people had no gloves.

    4. CMChad Mendes42:23

       Really? I didn't-

    5. JRJoe Rogan42:24

       Yeah.

    6. CMChad Mendes42:24

       I guess I didn't know that.

    7. JRJoe Rogan42:25

       Yeah, when Vitor fought Trey Tellemann, Trey Tellemann had, was, uh, no gloves. Just like a little bit of tape on his hands-

    8. CMChad Mendes42:31

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JRJoe Rogan42:31

       ... and that's it.

    10. CMChad Mendes42:32

        So basically we-

    11. JRJoe Rogan42:33

        Yeah.

    12. CMChad Mendes42:33

        That was the bare knu- that was the start of the bare knuckle.

    13. JRJoe Rogan42:35

        Mm-hmm. Or maybe Scott Fairoza didn't even have gloves back then. See if you could find a video of Scott Fairoza versus Vitor. I'm not sure if Scott had gloves.

    14. CMChad Mendes42:45

        Dude, that's crazy.

    15. JRJoe Rogan42:46

        Yeah, Vitor was one of the first guys that had gloves on. And he just did it to protect his hands.

    16. CMChad Mendes42:51

        Mm-hmm.

    17. JRJoe Rogan42:52

        You know? And that was back when you could wear shoes too.

    18. CMChad Mendes42:54

        Ah, I do remember that, yeah.

    19. JRJoe Rogan42:54

        A lot of guys wore shoes.

    20. CMChad Mendes42:56

        Yeah, man. I think that's my biggest fear with doing this bare knuckles, breaking my hands.

    21. JRJoe Rogan43:00

        Vitor's 19. Look at that.

    22. CMChad Mendes43:02

        Oh, man.

    23. JRJoe Rogan43:03

        Pit fighting. (laughs)

    24. CMChad Mendes43:04

        19 years old. Think back to-

    25. JRJoe Rogan43:06

        Yeah. Six-

    26. CMChad Mendes43:06

        ... when I was 19.

    27. JRJoe Rogan43:07

        He was 205 and that was his actual weight.... you know, because he didn't really-

    28. CMChad Mendes43:12

        Look at how, look how thick he was.

    29. JRJoe Rogan43:14

        ... 2023. Jesus.

    30. CMChad Mendes43:14

        He was so thick.
13. 46:39 – 58:09

    Sparring, brain health, and the rise of technical coaching (Duane Ludwig, Danaher)

    1. JRJoe Rogan46:39

       ... that don't spar? Like, when you hear of guys don't spar.

    2. CMChad Mendes46:42

       I think it's weird, man. I, I mean, like, I get it-

    3. JRJoe Rogan46:45

       But, like, look at Max Holloway.

    4. CMChad Mendes46:47

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan46:47

       When Max Holloway fought, uh, Kattar.

    6. CMChad Mendes46:50

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JRJoe Rogan46:50

       How good did he look?

    8. CMChad Mendes46:52

       Really good. And, and-

    9. JRJoe Rogan46:53

       Right?

    10. CMChad Mendes46:53

        ... and Josh Emmett, m- one of my teammates-

    11. JRJoe Rogan46:55

        Oh, yeah.

    12. CMChad Mendes46:55

        His last fight, which was one of the best striking fights he's ve- ever had, didn't ... He did, like, very, very light sparring movement.

    13. JRJoe Rogan47:03

        How come?

    14. CMChad Mendes47:04

        I, I can't remember why, but my, my coach-

    15. JRJoe Rogan47:06

        Like, an injury or something?

    16. CMChad Mendes47:07

        It could've been or that might just be the way that he's moving, like, he just doesn't wanna spar hard anymore, which I get. (coughs)

    17. JRJoe Rogan47:15

        Especially the style of fighting that he has, like, he's such a brawler.

    18. CMChad Mendes47:18

        Yeah, he gets, like ... Oh, my God, I get... Like, when me and him go light sparring, both of us get our bells rung. Like, both of us are just like bulls in a china shop-

    19. JRJoe Rogan47:26

        Yeah.

    20. CMChad Mendes47:26

        ... trying to go l- ... Like, neither one of us can go real light. It's tough.

    21. JRJoe Rogan47:29

        (laughs)

    22. CMChad Mendes47:29

        But, um, no, he, he said I just ... I didn't spar hard. And I, I get it, because, you know, obviously most of the damage that I ever took through any of my fights was (laughs) through training camp.

    23. JRJoe Rogan47:43

        Really?

    24. CMChad Mendes47:44

        Getting your bell rung multiple times or, you know, uh, obviously that stuff adds up and it's not good. I remember when we first got to team Alpha Male, like, it was like me, Benavidez, uh, um, Dillashaw, Danny Castillo, Justin Buckles. Like, we had all, all the UFC guys in there, and Faber, and we would just ... 16-ounce gloves, headgear, tape up, and just basically be trying to KO each other-

    25. JRJoe Rogan48:09

        Pshh.

    26. CMChad Mendes48:09

        ... for the entire sparring session.

    27. JRJoe Rogan48:11

        For sure.

    28. CMChad Mendes48:11

        You know? And I remember, there was guys that would get knocked out, like, you know, guys that would jump in and spar with us and, you know, would get knocked out. I remember one of the guys went out and sat in his car and he sat, he sat in the driver's seat for, like, 20 minutes and then didn't realize ... Like, he looked at his clock and he didn't realize he was there for that long. Like, he was basically concussed, like, really bad.

    29. JRJoe Rogan48:34

        Just out of it.

    30. CMChad Mendes48:35

        Yeah, yeah. It was just, like, sitting there.
14. 58:09 – 1:15:51

    Carnivore diet experiment: psoriasis improvement, reintroductions, and training carbs

    1. JRJoe Rogan58:09

       Hey, one thing I wanted to talk to you about is, you got on a carnivore diet-

    2. CMChad Mendes58:15

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan58:15

       ... and it really cured up your psoriasis.

    4. CMChad Mendes58:19

       Yeah, yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan58:19

       Is that ... I mean, how long have you had psoriasis for?

    6. CMChad Mendes58:23

       My whole life. I mean, I remember as a kid, you know, it started on my shins. Um, and it was just a small little patch, and I think as a kid I even thought it was just the ringworm from wrestling, you know?

    7. JRJoe Rogan58:35

       Mm-hmm.

    8. CMChad Mendes58:35

       But, um, it just never went away. And then just over the years kind of slowly spread, got bigger. So it's basically from knee to ankle on both shins. And then, you know, as I started getting older, it starting to sh- it started showing up in different spots. It got on my elbows, my scalp, ears, uh, little patches on my, on my body cavity.

    9. JRJoe Rogan58:55

       And what was your diet like then?

    10. CMChad Mendes58:58

        Um, (sighs) just, I mean ... I, I'd like to say pretty much I eat c- clean, you know?

    11. JRJoe Rogan59:06

        Air quotes.

    12. CMChad Mendes59:07

        But, I mean, every o- you know, I'd still every once in a while eat some, like, fast food, or, you know, if I go to somebody's house and they're just, they're making stuff, I eat whatever they eat. But, um, (sighs) you know, for the most part I thought I was pretty clean, until I got on this diet, and then I really figure out, like, how (laughs) bad I was eating. Like, the amount of sugar I think is key. Like, I got on this diet, and I did it ... I started March, I started March 1, and I did it for f- the last four months. Um, or four months into that. Um, but basically sugar I noticed was probably the worst thing for it. Um ...

    13. JRJoe Rogan59:44

        Did you notice this 'cause you added it in occasionally and you would see a difference?

    14. CMChad Mendes59:48

        No. I just was ... You know, I, it's my, my psoriasis over the years has just gotten worse and worse and worse, until-

    15. JRJoe Rogan59:53

        Mm-hmm.

    16. CMChad Mendes59:53

        ... uh, my buddy was basically telling me about this diet. And, um, we started e- basically the American Alma Beef, my, my beef company.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

        Mm-hmm.

    18. CMChad Mendes1:00:01

        And I was like, "Well, I have," (laughs) "I have all the beef at my fingertips here. I have all this wild game that I can live off of." The meat part of it's not gonna be an issue. It's basically me just making my mind up and being like, "Just do this."

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:00:15

        "This is all I eat."

    20. CMChad Mendes1:00:16

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:00:16

        Right.

    22. CMChad Mendes1:00:17

        Uh-huh. And so it's always been something when I was fighting, like, "Ah," just 'cause I've, I've known about it. People have told me about it. Like, "I think it'll really help your psoriasis. You should try it." But I'm like, "I can't, I can't, uh, k- cut out carbs. Like, I need carbs for training. Like, I'm, I'm an explosive athlete." So that was always my mindset, you know? So I-

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

        Right.

    24. CMChad Mendes1:00:34

        ... never did it. And then finally I was just like, "You know what? Fuck it. I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna do it for a month, and if I don't see any improvements, I'll just kinda go back to normal. If I do see improvements, I'm gonna continue doing it maybe for, like, two or three months and see what it looks like, basically check back in and go from there." Dude, within, like, a week my psoriasis was already night and day, like, for on my leg. And I ... That was the before and after picture. I think it was maybe a week or even two weeks.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:04

        On your Instagram you posted it.

    26. CMChad Mendes1:01:05

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

        Uh-huh. Yeah.

    28. CMChad Mendes1:01:05

        And it was just, like, my psoriasis was ... It, uh, that was right after a, a hunt that I had gone on, and the lack of sleep really flares it up, which I, obviously on hunts I'm eating-... bad in camp, whatever- whatever we're making. Um, you know, I'm getting, like, four hours of sleep at night and I'm usually living off of a lot of caffeine. Th- those three things definitely flare it up pretty bad. Um, and so that first picture was, like, extreme, and then the- the ne- the picture next to it was on that diet for, I c- I think it was a week, maybe it could have been two weeks. I'll have to look back and see. But dude, it was already so much better, I'm like, "Well, shit, I'm gonna keep doing this and just see." So I kept- kept doing it and, uh, you know, I don't know, it was probably three months in, I'm just like, "It's, like, almost gone." Um, and ideally, I think it would be completely gone if I cut out caffeine, which, you know, they talk about you probably won't need caffeine after a couple of months, your energy levels will be better. Which they were, I just really fucking enjoy getting all cracked out and getting a bunch of shit done.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:02:12

        (laughs)

    30. CMChad Mendes1:02:14

        (laughs) So-

Episode duration: 2:59:32