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The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe Joe Rogan Experience

JRE MMA Show #117 with Marlon "Chito" Vera

Joe sits down with Marlon "Chito" Vera, an Ecuadorian mixed martial artist currently competing in the bantamweight division of the UFC.

Marlon "Chito" VeraguestJoe RoganhostYoung Jamieguest
Jun 27, 20242h 55mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:38

    Tattoo pain stories: back, legs, inner thigh, and the “awkward” sessions

    1. MV

      (drum roll) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

    2. JR

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) He saw ... Yeah. There's, uh, a few guys in LA that are like legit LA legends, legends of tattooing. He's one of the biggest.

    3. MV

      Yeah. We did one set and that was painful.

    4. JR

      (laughs)

    5. MV

      That, that kicked my ass. (laughs)

    6. JR

      Is the back more painful than the arms?

    7. MV

      Oh, yeah.

    8. JR

      Really?

    9. MV

      The arms are easy.

    10. JR

      Yeah. The arms are pretty easy.

    11. MV

      I basically ... Uh, you feel it, but you're not crying. On my back-

    12. JR

      You were crying?

    13. MV

      ... there, there was ... Not crying, but about to.

    14. JR

      (laughs)

    15. MV

      There were points that my arm were shaking-

    16. JR

      Really?

    17. MV

      ... with- without me moving it.

    18. JR

      Wow. See, that's, it's weird what parts hurt, 'cause, um, uh, the elbow hurts a lot, like the inside of the elbow.

    19. MV

      Yeah.

    20. JR

      That shit hurts a lot. I was like, "I thought that was numb." Because like you think about how many times you hit things with your elbows, it doesn't hurt at all.

    21. MV

      I crack heads with elbows, but the-

    22. JR

      (laughs)

    23. MV

      ... the, the little ink it will make you pay. It's crazy.

    24. JR

      It's weird. Yeah.

    25. MV

      I have my full leg, a dragon.

    26. JR

      Yeah?

    27. MV

      Like top to bottom, my leg. That's also awful.

    28. JR

      Really? Leg is awful?

    29. MV

      And like some parts, like some parts in the thigh where the sun don't goes-

    30. JR

      Hmm.

  2. 2:38 – 7:09

    Getting tattooed by legends: Mister Cartoon, studio culture, and booking hustle

    1. JR

      Uh. So w- who did your leg?

    2. MV

      Uh, this guy called Mark Nava.

    3. JR

      Yeah.

    4. MV

      He's a, he's really good in Japanese style, he's ... And he's r- like a mile from my house-

    5. JR

      Oh, wow.

    6. MV

      ... in Costa Mesa.

    7. JR

      Oh, well, Costa Mesa, that whole ... Los Angeles is amaz- that whole Southern California area is amazing for tattoos.

    8. MV

      Yeah. We are ... And I've been lucky in most of my tattoos. You know, some people got some tattoos that they're like they just get it because they want tattoos-

    9. JR

      Right.

    10. MV

      ... and then they're shit.

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. MV

      I'm lucky. Every, even what, everything I got in Ecuador it's, it's just clean and, uh, it's all what I want.

    13. JR

      How much of it did you get in Ecuador?

    14. MV

      I get, m- basically all this arm. Mark Nava did just the snake and the spider in the back. Then the rest is all in Ecuador. All these arms is in Ecuador besides the hand.

    15. JR

      Hmm.

    16. MV

      This is Shawn Topper, another good guy in, in, around in Costa Mesa area. Then my back, Mister Cartoon.

    17. JR

      Having a back piece like your back piece, um, we just filmed it, we just took a video of it before the podcast, but Mister Cartoon-

    18. MV

      That's a bad motherfucker.

    19. JR

      ... that guy's a legend.

    20. MV

      Of all-

    21. JR

      Legend.

    22. MV

      Of all my tattoos, that's, that's number-

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. MV

      That's number one. It has to be.

    25. JR

      How hard was it to get in with him?

    26. MV

      Well, every time he, he, he's, he's like kind of like he works with, with Ruka, with the brand.

    27. JR

      Oh, okay.

    28. MV

      So he comes visit Pat all the time. So every time he comes around, I'm like, "Come on, dude."

    29. JR

      (laughs)

    30. MV

      "Come on, dude. Get me in." And he's like he's pretty chill, you know.

  3. 7:09 – 11:49

    UFC matchmaking pressure and the brutality of weight cuts

    1. JR

      (yawns) He's a funny guy. But, you know, that, that job makes people-

    2. MV

      It's not easy.

    3. JR

      No. It makes you tense.

    4. MV

      You lose your fucking head.

    5. JR

      Yeah.

    6. MV

      Think about it, how many fights fell off and you gotta figure it out yourself.

    7. JR

      And there's 500 fighters on the roster that are emailing him every day, trying to get a fight, and then you have to deal with crazy managers. Some managers are crazy.

    8. MV

      Yeah.

    9. JR

      And some managers are great, but some managers are out of their fucking mind.

    10. MV

      I, uh, that's why I respect him. I don't hate him.

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. MV

      Because people say, "Fuck that guy, he don't wanna help." And I'm like, "Bro, there's like 10 idiots just like you-"

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. MV

      "... saying the same thing about him."

    15. JR

      Mick Maynard is cool as fuck, though. He never loses his shit.

    16. MV

      He's newer too.

    17. JR

      Is that what it is? But he's been around a long time. You say newer, but many years.

    18. MV

      But, but a ti- in the UFC.

    19. JR

      Yeah.

    20. MV

      Like the UFC probably has a different animal of pressure.

    21. JR

      Yeah, but even in the UFC, Mick's been around for many years now. It's been quite a few years.

    22. MV

      Yeah, that's true. But Sean has been since the early days.

    23. JR

      Yeah. Well, Joe Silva was losing his mind before he quit.

    24. MV

      So-

    25. JR

      He had to quit.

    26. MV

      He-

    27. JR

      As much as that guy loves the sport, he's like, "I can't do it anymore."

    28. MV

      He said, "Fuck off. I'm out."

    29. JR

      "I can't fucking do it anymore." Yeah. He, he was losing his marbles.

    30. MV

      That's definitely, that's definitely make you lose your head.

  4. 11:49 – 14:12

    “No season” training philosophy: immigrant mentality, skill-building out of camp

    1. MV

      There's a, you have to stay ahead. You have to work the whole time. Some, most people only pushes when they have a contract, when they h- they, when they hear like, "Hey, you might be fighting this date." This is n- not even a sport.

    2. JR

      Yeah.

    3. MV

      I don't even call it... I don't think this is a sport, this is fighting.

    4. JR

      It's fighting. Yeah.

    5. MV

      It's fighting. So you better be trained the whole time and just ready to go.

    6. JR

      And when you're not in camp, you have to be improving.

    7. MV

      100%.

    8. JR

      Yeah. You have to be working on things. And then there's some people that don't do that, and, you know, the camps are hard. And some people, when they get out of camp, they just wanna get fat and relax and...

    9. MV

      Not in, not in me.

    10. JR

      You can't? No. Good for you, man.

    11. MV

      Like, Kobe Bryant said, the mamba mentality?

    12. JR

      Yeah.

    13. MV

      I call it the immigrant mentality. Which-

    14. JR

      Yeah, immigrant mentality. (laughs)

    15. MV

      ... all fucking day-

    16. JR

      Yeah.

    17. MV

      ... seven days a week. There's no-

    18. JR

      Yeah, I love that you quote Joey Diaz like that. (laughs)

    19. MV

      (laughs) . I love that guy.

    20. JR

      Everybody loves Joey Diaz.

    21. MV

      I love when he tell the Monday video.

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. MV

      He fucking get me hard. I'm like-

    24. JR

      He just did a new one on Julián Peña. Did you see that one?

    25. MV

      No, I didn't see that one.

    26. JR

      Oh, pull it up, pull it up. It's on his Instagram. It's fucking beautiful. He was talking about how amazing Julián Peña meeting him at the news-

    27. MV

      He's a motherfucker with his coffee and shit.

    28. JR

      Yeah. (laughs)

    29. MV

      He's like, "You motherfuckers." It's fucking Monday. If you're coming happy about your weekend, fuck off. I mean-

    30. JR

      Yeah. Yeah, he gets fired up.

  5. 14:12 – 17:15

    Conditioning deep dive: sprint intervals vs. long runs and mental sharpening

    1. JR

      Did you ever see, uh, when BJ Penn was training with Marv Marinovitch?

    2. MV

      Yeah. I, I ha- he told me a lot about it.

    3. JR

      Yeah?

    4. MV

      And Parillo told me too. He was... What I, what, what I heard about it, it was like, it was all about-

    5. JR

      Cardio.

    6. MV

      ... three, four seconds, three, four seconds.

    7. JR

      Yeah, yeah.

    8. MV

      All ex-

    9. JR

      Yeah.

    10. MV

      But that's why he have a great first round.

    11. JR

      Yeah.

    12. MV

      And then he's no longer-

    13. JR

      Well, no, not necessarily. You know, that was when he beat Sean Sherk. That was when he beat, um... Who else would he fight?

    14. MV

      Diego Sánchez with the head kick.

    15. JR

      Diego Sánchez, that's right. Like those, those fights were when he was supremely conditioned. But the, the point was their idea was you already know how to fight.

    16. MV

      Yes.

    17. JR

      This is... The camp is not for fighting. The camp is for physical preparation. So to get yourself in peak condition-

    18. MV

      Like, I can-

    19. JR

      ... that was what they thought.

    20. MV

      I can talk because I'm in that camp. I'm with Parillo. So they were focusing a lot on explosiveness.

    21. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. MV

      Explosions. But then what about the long distance? Like that's what Parillo says, "It's not about sprint, it's not about intervals, it's not about long distance. It's about the three of them." And that's one thing I, I add from him because he like me to sprint. He like his sprints. Me personally, my favorite thing is go over 15 miles, just run almost three hours, like just go.

    23. JR

      Why do you like doing that?

    24. MV

      Because my mind gets so sharp. I'm thinking. I'm, I'm, I'm visualizing. I'm, I'm thinking on... I'm seeing the future. I'm like... I basically, I'm thinking on what I want, how I wanna get it done. But then also you gotta be able to keep yourself active for that long, because when you do intervals, like last night I did a sprint, like fast, like 12 mi- like 12 miles per hour, two minutes. I did like six, six rounds like that. It's hard as fuck. Your heart is gonna get out of your chest, but you know it's two minutes. You know it's gonna end. So it's almost like you teach yourself to stop here. When, when I do my long distance, there's no, "It's almost done."

    25. JR

      Right.

    26. MV

      Because when I go, when I, when I go six, seven miles to the left, I know I gotta come back.

    27. JR

      Right. Right, right.

    28. MV

      So I like, I like everything. All of this work because one, it help me being explosive, help me being fast, but the other one in the, in, in the championship rounds is gonna show.

    29. JR

      Mmm.

    30. MV

      And you don't get this overnight. I don't start running and get to 13 miles in a week. It took me months to get there. Now I do 13, 15 whenever I want. But also I don't stop using it.

  6. 17:15 – 22:36

    Growing up in Ecuador: street fights at 4, cowboy farm life, and early martial arts

    1. JR

      When you started in Ecuador, what kind of facilities were available?

    2. MV

      Nothing.

    3. JR

      Nothing?

    4. MV

      I was training on living rooms-

    5. JR

      No.

    6. MV

      ... with mats. Like, let's say you, you move this table-

    7. JR

      Yeah.

    8. MV

      ... we put mats, and we go jab, cross, hook, back, and forth.

    9. JR

      Really?

    10. MV

      There was nothing.

    11. JR

      What made, what motivated you to get into it?

    12. MV

      This is the crazy thing. This go backs when I'm a, I'm a four-year-old kid in Ecuador in this town called Chone. I was fighting on the street, the homeless kids that they clean shoes for money or they sell, they, they sell, like, Chiclets or cigarette. My brother used to call these kids, give him couple bucks to fight me. For fun.

    13. JR

      (laughs)

    14. MV

      Like the, like the fucking circus. And I love it. Like there's not a time...

    15. JR

      This is when you were four?

    16. MV

      I was a kid, five, four, yes. They used to make me fight just for fun.

    17. JR

      Wow.

    18. MV

      And they would laugh about it. And then if I lose, they get mad.

    19. JR

      (laughs) What?

    20. MV

      But I used to ask for it. I'm like, "Bro, I wanna fight today." It was like, that was like instead of go play soccer, that was for me.

    21. JR

      And it was fight MMA?

    22. MV

      No, it was a, it was a street fight.

    23. JR

      Right, just...

    24. MV

      Just scrap.

    25. JR

      But, but no rules, no gloves?

    26. MV

      Of course, don't bite, don't-

    27. JR

      Don't bite.

    28. MV

      ... don't do crazy shit, but...

    29. JR

      Did you guys discuss this beforehand?

    30. MV

      No, we just fight. Punches. Well, I guess we were gentlemen, punches and kicks.

  7. 22:36 – 28:30

    First real training at 16: jiu-jitsu obsession and leaving the ‘crazy life’ behind

    1. JR

      So when did you first start formally training?

    2. MV

      I ... When I was 16 years old, my, my neighbor told me, like, "Yo, there's this Jiu-Jitsu gym, it's really good. I know you like fighting. I know you fighting all the time. You should come. That will probably calm you down."

    3. JR

      "That'll calm you down."

    4. MV

      I went with him one day. I pay for the full month, like, right away. No, no, not try class, not nothing. Since that day until today, yo, I haven't stopped training.

    5. JR

      Wow.

    6. MV

      But my family, I, I get it why they never support me at the beginning. They were like, "Nah." They thought I was a boy in college. I was just, I was just different, you know. My, my sister and my brother, they graduate from high school, straight to college. Both have their degree, normal people, smart people. I wasn't the case. I was getting in trouble all the time, you know, cops, school. Everywhere I go, there was an issue.

    7. JR

      (laughs)

    8. MV

      My group of friends were fucking maniacs. No- ... That didn't help either. So when I started fighting, and I said, "Okay, no more crazy life, no more bullshit, I wanna fight," they were like, "Oh, no. No, we don't want ... If you get better at this, you're gonna hurt people. You're, you're a dumbass. We don't want this for you." And I was like, "No, if I start doing this, it's because I really want it." They didn't believe it, but it's because all the bad things I already did come until this point. By the moment I started training, everything around my life stopped. Like, no more party, no more outside life, no more skateboarding, no more surfing. I left everything and I focused on Jiu-Jitsu to become a fighter. And since that day I touch that gym, never stopped coming.

    9. JR

      And this was, this place in Ecuador, who was running it?

    10. MV

      It is, uh ... My first Jiu-Jitsu coach is, uh, Fernando Soluso. These guys came from Fabio Wargiel in Brazil.

    11. JR

      Oh, wow.

    12. MV

      So he came from ... This guy is legit.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. MV

      He came from the times, like, when Marcelo Garcia, Galbau, all those guys were competing, he came from the same, like, the same age. So he came from a good group. Demian, he's really close to Demian, like, very close.

    15. JR

      Oh, wow.

    16. MV

      So he came to Ecuador to decide to open a school and-He put Jiu-Jitsu on the map because, because he came from Brazil. If he would have never came-

    17. JR

      Why did he decide to go to Ecuador?

    18. MV

      I have no idea. He just came one day and never left.

    19. JR

      Wow.

    20. MV

      And until this day, he's still teaching. And he was fighting too. He was fighting to show people that, "Look, I'm not that good in the striking, but with my Jiu-Jitsu, I can win fights." And for me, I was like, "It's in road. I wanna come and do this." But before he get to know who I am, I come to the gym and say, "Hey, man, my name is Chito. I wanna be a UFC fighter." He's like, "Fuck off, kid." He's like, "What do you train? Are you a boxer? Are you a kickboxer?" I'm like, "No, I'm nothing, but I wanna be a UFC fighter." So I came saying that to everybody, "I wanna be a, a UFC fighter," and people just laugh about it, like, "Dude, you're nothing. You never trained your life." "It doesn't matter, I wanna be a UFC fighter." And my first ... the first day I show up to school, that was it. And then the m- the year later, I graduated from high school, I was coming twice a day, every day. It's almost like being in a world like, "Fuck off, kid, we don't want you here. You're, like, annoying."

    21. JR

      (laughs)

    22. MV

      I never stopped coming. Until this day, I never stopped.

    23. JR

      That's amazing. Well, you had a vision.

    24. MV

      I, I just saw the UFC, I saw Pray FC, I saw Strikeforce, and I was like, "Wait a minute, I don't need to go to college."

    25. JR

      (laughs)

    26. MV

      That's it.

    27. JR

      Did you ... Well, do you remember the first event that you saw?

    28. MV

      Yes, it was GSP. I watched a lot of old, old ones, but live, it was GSP-Koscheck, if I'm not wrong. The first one.

    29. JR

      GSP-Josh Koscheck.

    30. MV

      Yeah.

  8. 28:30 – 32:19

    First MMA fight in a mechanic shop: the ‘rooster cage’ event that changed his life

    1. JR

      So you were in Ecuador, you were training Jiu-Jitsu. When did you have your first fight?

    2. MV

      Literally a year after the first day I step in the gym. I was at Blue Bell, I was training a little bit of kickboxing, and this guy came, like, "Hey, somebody get hurt. You wanna fight?" And I was like, "Okay, who's this other guy?" He's like, "Oh, he's a kid like you, he practice kickboxing. You're a kid, you do Jiu-Jitsu. It's gonna be fun." I fly to Quito, the capital, with one of my friends. I have to make my mom sign a contract, because of course, um, I was underage. I told my mom it was a Jiu-Jitsu tournament.

    3. JR

      (laughs)

    4. MV

      Lady didn't read, she signed it. I flew to Quito, and then I was like, "What, what the fuck I'm doing here?" It was, like, it was a mechanic, a car mechanic. They put a rope with a bunch of, uh, sheets so you don't see the mechanic's eye. They put, uh ... they put four walls, like making a f- a cage. It looks like a rooster cage.

    5. JR

      (laughs)

    6. MV

      The ground was the mats, the squares? They have, like, the, like, the cookies.

    7. JR

      Mm-hmm. Puzzle? Puzzle mats?

    8. MV

      Yeah, the puzzle mats. And a fucking metal cage.

    9. JR

      Whoa.

    10. MV

      The metal was going like that, so if you get too close to the cage, you're cut.

    11. JR

      Really?

    12. MV

      Yes. And then I was like, "Okay, there's no weigh-ins, there's no locker room." It's a fucking mechanic. It's k- k- ... Quito, the capital, is cold too. There's no heater. I show up with a fucking hoodie and my shorts. I was like, "What a ... What the fuck I'm doing here?" I was like, "Okay, who's my opponent? I don't see no kids in here, all grown men with tattoos looking mean." And then I ask the guy that contact me for the fight, I'm like, "Yo, who I'm fighting?" "See the guy there with the dread?" I was like, "He's not a fucking kid." He's like, "Ah, it's okay, you should be fine." And we're in the main event, I didn't knew shit.

    13. JR

      You're the main event?

    14. MV

      Yeah, but i- i- it's, it's a ... This is not licensed.

    15. JR

      Right.

    16. MV

      This, this is a homie making fights in the, in, in the back of the mechanic.

    17. JR

      Right.

    18. MV

      So I wrap my hands with, with just regular hand wraps, put it on. I don't have a mouthpiece with me. They go out to buy one, boil it, put it in my mouth, and then, "Okay, it's your turn. Go." No warmup, no nothing. No, no nothing. I was a Jiu-Jitsu kid showing up to this MMA show.This fucker throw a spinning wheel to my face. I close my eyes and shoot a double leg, and that thing just touch my hair, and I was like, "Okay. I'm not gonna f- strike with this guy because I don't know how to strike." So, for one round I tried to take him down over and over and over, and Q2 is like, just like Mexico City, it's high altitude. First round's over, my throat and my lungs were dry. I told my friend like, "Bro, what the fuck? I don't wanna be here." He's like, "No, you there. Don't be a fucking pussy. Go and fight." I'm like, "What should I do?" "Just keep taking him down. Jiu-jitsu wins all the time." He, that's what he told me, and I was like, "Okay, I guess you're right." Went back in the second round, take him down, armbar him. When I tap him out, there is no feeling like that. That was my first MMA win. I was the most high natural drug I ever took in my life, was winning that day by armbar. And I told myself, "I will put everything on the world that affects to be a good athlete aside." And since that day, I started training like, like a manic, like nonstop.

    19. JR

      So, everything that could possibly get in the way of that, you put that aside?

    20. MV

      Everything. Everything.

    21. JR

      Everything. Partying, fun.

    22. MV

      Like, "Hey bro, there's a good thing tonight."

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. MV

      No. Like, my girlfriend, which is my wife now, she wa- she knew, like, I was like, it was fighting.

    25. JR

      Obsessed.

    26. MV

      I was obsessed. I wa- I'm gonna make it to the UFC. And here we are.

    27. JR

      And where, were you tr- you said you weren't training very much striking. Did you start training striking after that?

  9. 32:19 – 35:27

    Early MMA in Ecuador and the call to Albuquerque: the LATAM TUF pipeline

    1. MV

      So, the, this jiu jit- Fernando Soluço have like a kickboxing coach on the side that he would use for himself and some other guys, and I started training with them in the MMA class in the mornings. So these guys, like, have some, uh, some kickboxing skills and also was, like, a brown belt at the time in jiu-jitsu. So, he would put together some classes, but MMA class was shin- shinguards and gloves, just beat the shit out of each other.

    2. JR

      So there was no, like, strategy, technique?

    3. MV

      Oh, no. Like, the technique back then was like, high kick back and forth.

    4. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MV

      Five minute rounds.

    6. JR

      (laughs)

    7. MV

      Okay, f- uh, switch kick back and forth. Jab back re- like, you know, it's like, it was a beginner class.

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. MV

      And back then MMA was blind in Ecuador.

    10. JR

      And what year was this?

    11. MV

      This is 2012.

    12. JR

      2012?

    13. MV

      2011, yeah. This is, uh, because I make my UFC debut 2014. Oh, this is way before then. Fuck, it's a long time ago.

    14. JR

      (laughs)

    15. MV

      So, it was, the jiu-jitsu was legit. People were winning in Brazil, people were winning in the US in the Pan Ams, in the worlds, but MMA was the, was, it was blind.

    16. JR

      Did you have to combine the stuff yourself? Like the transitions between the kicks and punches and the take downs? Or did they have any strategy for that?

    17. MV

      Well, the jiu-jitsu coach, Fernando, he would be like, "Okay, jab to the take down. Jab cross hoo to the take down." Like, you know, like very old school basic.

    18. JR

      Right.

    19. MV

      You know, if, if somebody throw the low kick, run the take down. Or we will do days that we only sparring the wall, trying to take somebody down. But it wasn't like, like what I have right now, like a full on class technique, you do this, you have to do that. There was no experience. This guy, Soluço, he was a fighter himself but he was winning with jiu-jitsu.

    20. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    21. MV

      He was going full on take down and submit the guy as soon as he get down. Couple fights he couldn't take the guy down, they were bad fights for him.

    22. JR

      Yeah.

    23. MV

      But it was just the old days. This is like-

    24. JR

      The old days, yeah.

    25. MV

      ... MMA wasn't big in, in, in Ecuador. Nobody would see the UFC.

    26. JR

      So, did, they didn't know what you were trying to do?

    27. MV

      When I told my dad I wanna be a UFC fighter, he was like, "UFC? What the fuck is that?" And I was like, "UFC is on TV." He's like, "There's a lot of things in TV, kid."

    28. JR

      (laughs)

    29. MV

      And I was like, "You don't get it." Like, it was just not popular. It was hard to support a kid that wanna do that. It was just like, "What is that? UFC? Oh, cage fighting? Oh, awesome." So, you, we basically figured it out in the process. That's why by the time the UFC contact me to send me to Albuquerque to the Latin American program with all the, with all, all, with Yair, with all the Mexicans-

    30. JR

      Yeah. What year was that?

  10. 35:27 – 51:09

    Bad coach, mind games, and the 50% cut: learning to protect yourself

    1. MV

      Because it's, I was so young. When I make my UFC debut in Mexico, I barely knew what I was doing. I was just like... I was in Jackson for, for six months. In six months you don't get better. I was much better because I was with Jon Jones, with Cowboy, you know, even Dodson was in his prime, Holy Holm was around, so I was like, "Fuck, I'm training with all these people, I'm gonna kick ass." And then my coach from Ecuador came and he's like, "Hey, they did everything wrong. I'm gonna fix it for you." I was like, "What do you mean?" He was trying to take credit for everything. But just-

    2. JR

      Oh.

    3. MV

      ... that alone fucked me in the head and I was like, "Wait a minute. I thought I was-"

    4. JR

      What did he think they were doing wrong?

    5. MV

      He was just make sure he control everything. So if I lose-

    6. JR

      Oh.

    7. MV

      See, Greg Jackson make you lose. If you win' Oh. ... "Oh, I fix it on fight week." Which is bu- uh, now I'm a grown man and I understand what bullshit means.

    8. JR

      Yeah.

    9. MV

      I was a kid back then, I was 21, you know?

    10. JR

      Yeah.

    11. MV

      So I was just trying to figure it out on the go.

    12. JR

      There's a lotta coaches that do that, man.

    13. MV

      That didn't last much.

    14. JR

      Yeah.

    15. MV

      After that fight we had one more fight and I was like, I told my manager, "Hey, that's a wrap. I need to get out of Ecuador. If I, if I stay here, I'm done." Even the UFC told me, like, "Hey..." Sean, Sean basically told me, like, "I believe in you. But if you don't get out of Ecuador, you're done."

    16. JR

      And because of your relationship with your coach?

    17. MV

      It was pretty shitty relationship with the coach. This is not the jiu-jitsu guy, this is the MMA guy.

    18. JR

      Right.

    19. MV

      It was, it was very shitty and low level. He would like...... play tricks, play mind games, like, "Hey," like, "I see this in my dreams." I'm saying, "Oh."

    20. JR

      He had dreams?

    21. MV

      Oh, yeah.

    22. JR

      Oh, fuck.

    23. MV

      Yeah, it's bullshit. But-

    24. JR

      (sighs)

    25. MV

      ... the sooner that... And my family was, like, telling me about it all the time, like, "Watch out, be careful. It's just weird the way, the way he control you." And I would kind of, like, put myself against my family saying, "No, you guys are wrong. He's right."

    26. JR

      That happens a lot to guys early in their career. If they get unlucky, they can get hooked up with the wrong coach.

    27. MV

      He was my first MMA coach. That's why I get hooked with him, and I will believe anything he says.

    28. JR

      Yeah. It's so common, man, that you get a talented-

    29. MV

      Like-

    30. JR

      ... guy that gets hooked up with the wrong people.

  11. 51:09 – 56:32

    Jackson’s baptism by fire: getting destroyed for 10 weeks and refusing to quit

    1. JR

      So when you first started training at Jackson's, what was that experience like? Like, w- how much growing did you have to do... well, how much did you have to abandon of, like, the way you fought before?

    2. MV

      I was a white belt.

    3. JR

      Really?

    4. MV

      Rolling with black belts. I was lost. The first day of esp- That wa-... That trip to Jackson's was my first ever sparring, like real sparring, like with a real fighter in front of me.

    5. JR

      A real professional.

    6. MV

      Real. I, I, I was getting dropped left and right.

    7. JR

      Really?

    8. MV

      I was getting kicked in my leg, I'm flying. I was getting punched in the stomach and cr- crawling to the ground. I was like... My friends will text me like, "Hey, how's... Are you having fun? This fucking Cabo is there." I was like, "Forget about Cabo, dude. I'm getting my ass kicked by fucking... a guy that have zero amateur fight." I was getting tapped. I was getting taken down. I was getting fucking murdered in the stand up. I wasn't... I don't win a round, like, in the first 10 weeks.

    9. JR

      Wow.

    10. MV

      And it was awful.

    11. JR

      10 weeks of just getting your ass kicked.

    12. MV

      Ass kicked in every single practice. Even... True story. This, uh, Mike Valle, he was a striking coach there. He pulled me aside one class and he's like... He gave me this fucking dumb story like, "When I was a kid, my dream was to be a baseball player, blah, blah, blah. And one day the coach told me I should find something else."

    13. JR

      Oh my God.

    14. MV

      "Because I wasn't good enough and I decided to ins- go to fighting instead of do baseball, because I was so bad there. So we recommend you to find something else."

    15. JR

      Oh, shit.

    16. MV

      I look at him in the eye, dead calm, and I say, "Fuck you," and I walk away.

    17. JR

      Whoa.

    18. MV

      But the only thing that I prized myself is like, I was getting my ass kicked everywhere, everywhere, in every single class. Jiu-jitsu class, tapped like a fucking clapper. Striking class, getting my ass kicked. Wrestling class, good luck. I was, I was blind everywhere, but I never stopped coming to class on time and ready to go. That never changed. Every morning, every Tuesday morning, cold mornings of sparring. 9:30, I was there warming up, ready to go. Get my ass kicked, go to the room, cry sometimes because I wa- I was realizing I suck at this. But keep coming, keep coming, keep coming.

    19. JR

      So two and a half months in, you started to see a change?

    20. MV

      A little bit. (laughs)

    21. JR

      (laughs)

    22. MV

      A little bit. At least I get familiar with the guys that shouldn't, shouldn't spar.

    23. JR

      Yeah.

    24. MV

      I was like, "You come here."

    25. JR

      Uh...

    26. MV

      "You're not that good. I can, I, I can run from you." But it was r-... Like, I trained with these guys, like, for a month and then I went straight to The Ultimate Fighter.

    27. JR

      Wow.

    28. MV

      So the other guys that were there, like Jair, they were Mexicans. They had their, like, a year already.

    29. JR

      Wow.

    30. MV

      I was new there. I was new mid. I was there. I didn't have time to get better. You don't get better in a couple of months.

  12. 56:32 – 1:06:17

    Nutrition, lifestyle discipline, and why weight cutting is ‘sanctioned cheating’

    1. JR

      Do you?

    2. MV

      Oh, full on rebuy left and right.

    3. JR

      Is that most of your diet?

    4. MV

      Like out of camp? Like out of camp, I can eat whatever I want because I keep in a certain amount of diet. I don't eat no sugar. I rarely do a cheat meal, but I eat meat every day. I do vegetable juices, avocados, like a lot of fats-

    5. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. MV

      ... a lot of protein and some veggie juices.

    7. JR

      Do you have a nutritionist or do you just... Yeah?

    8. MV

      Perfecting athletes, they- they- we've been together for like 11 fights, so they know me. They know I'm not fucking around. Like they know I'm in Texas and in the last four days, I've been eating meat, eggs, veggie juices, couple smoothies.

    9. JR

      Always healthy.

    10. MV

      There's no point to go the other way.

    11. JR

      Right, no point. It's just mouth pleasure.

    12. MV

      And ex- exactly.

    13. JR

      Yeah.

    14. MV

      The moment you swallow it, you're fucked.

    15. JR

      Yeah, yeah. It feels good when it's in your mouth, just spit it out. Diego Sanchez-

    16. MV

      I do that.

    17. JR

      ... used to do that. He used to eat meat. I mean, he had this idea that meat was bad for you, but you know, he used to chew the meat and then spit it out.

    18. MV

      Diego Sanchez.

    19. JR

      He's so crazy.

    20. MV

      I do at least two rebuys a day.

    21. JR

      Really?

    22. MV

      Oh yeah. But I eat a bunch of avocados, a bunch of fruit, a bunch of veggie juices. And then when I get a call to fight, I'm not overweight. I'm basically in shape. I just add a bunch of veggies because my meals go smaller-

    23. JR

      Mm-hmm.

    24. MV

      ... and smaller and smaller towards the wei- the end of camp.

    25. JR

      What is your weight walking around normally?

    26. MV

      Like 54, 53.

    27. JR

      Okay, so you're cutting somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 pounds?

    28. MV

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      Yeah. And what do you weigh like the week of the fight?

    30. MV

      Like 45, 48.

  13. 1:06:17 – 1:14:04

    Recovery stack: sleep rules, sauna, hyperbaric oxygen, and surfing for sanity

    1. JR

      Now, when you are in camp or just in general, what do you do for recovery? Are you getting regular massages? Are you...

    2. MV

      Yeah, I definitely do the massages. I go to, to the, like, the PT. They use the... You know, if something hurts, they do wave shocks or steams. I do a lot of hyperbaric chamber-

    3. JR

      Do you-

    4. MV

      ... for the head a lot.

    5. JR

      How often do you do that?

    6. MV

      (laughs) Weekly.

    7. JR

      Weekly. How many times?

    8. MV

      I... Once a week.

    9. JR

      Once a week?

    10. MV

      Mm-hmm.

    11. JR

      For how long?

    12. MV

      For, like, 90 minutes.

    13. JR

      And how many atmospheres? Two?

    14. MV

      Say that again.

    15. JR

      Atmospheres. Like, you know, like, their... they can get it up to, like... The one that I go to get you to 2.2 if you need it.

    16. MV

      Huh.

    17. JR

      I, I do it at two, two atmospheres. It's, like, it's i- important, like, how many, um... how... The... Like, they have home units that are-

    18. MV

      Yeah, the one that I go is the metal ones, the huge ones.

    19. JR

      ... not that strong. Yeah, those are the ones you want.

    20. MV

      I say 90 minute in that thing.

    21. JR

      Yeah.

    22. MV

      I don't know what they do, how they control it. I just get myself in there.

    23. JR

      Yeah, the... I do 90 minutes as well. The... They're... They have some that only do, like, one and a half atmospheres. The idea is, like-... here's the amount of oxygen in a normal atmosphere, and they jack it up to two, to double the amount of oxygen in the, in an atmosphere. And it like, the, it's pressurized inside of there.

    24. MV

      Yeah, yeah.

    25. JR

      And I think the idea-

    26. MV

      Is it being underwater?

    27. JR

      Yeah. Like, like being underwater with scuba tanks.

    28. MV

      Yeah.

    29. JR

      You know what's interesting? This lady, uh, who's, uh, my doctor told me that one of the people that, uh, she used to do this with, um, they, they used to do scuba. They were scuba divers. And these guys would get drunk, and then the, to recover from scu- from being drunk, they-

    30. MV

      Scuba diving.

Episode duration: 2:55:27

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