The Joe Rogan ExperienceJRE MMA Show #12 with Ben Askren
CHAPTERS
- 0:00 – 1:16
Why Askren never fought in the UFC (and whether he’s really retired)
Joe opens by praising Askren’s undefeated run and lamenting that he never got a UFC run. Askren explains he’s “done” unless he can fight to prove he’s #1, and notes his style has helped him avoid damage and potentially extend his career window.
- •Rogan calls Askren the top UFC “what-if” matchup
- •Askren clarifies he’s retired unless a true #1 proving opportunity arises
- •Discussion of longevity: wrestling-heavy style and minimal striking damage
- •Askren notes he didn’t get hit once in 2017 across three fights
- 1:16 – 1:23
From Bellator champion to ONE FC: the contract path that shaped his career
Rogan situates Askren’s post-Bellator career in ONE FC and asks how a champion leaves while undefeated. Askren frames the move as a consequence of contract structure and negotiations rather than Bellator simply “letting him go.”
- •ONE FC positioned as a major Asian MMA organization
- •Askren’s Bellator contract ending and negotiations “going south”
- •Undefeated record context (18–0) and reputation at the time
- •Setup for the detailed Bellator/UFC matching-clause story
- 1:23 – 6:44
The Bellator release and the UFC non-offer: matching clauses, Vegas meetings, and a vanished deal
Askren gives a detailed timeline: the matching clause, repeated calls to Bellator’s Bjorn Rebney, getting released, and then UFC interest abruptly disappearing. He describes flying to Vegas, being offered a strange confidential arrangement involving World Series of Fighting, and then having it pulled hours later.
- •Bellator matching clause and how it complicated UFC negotiations
- •Askren’s repeated attempts to be released early from Bellator
- •Dana publicly saying the UFC wasn’t interested right after Askren’s release
- •Meeting with Lorenzo/Dana: confidential deal + 1 WSOF bout
- •Deal revoked within hours; Askren left without a UFC offer
- 6:44 – 9:19
Why Dana didn’t want him: steroids criticism, “boring style” narrative, and being no yes-man
Askren lays out his best guesses for why the UFC never signed him, including personal friction, stylistic concerns, and business politics. Rogan counters the “boring wrestling” idea by arguing wrestling is foundational and points to elite examples where it decides championship fights.
- •Askren’s theory list: personal dislike, style, Bellator politics, champion risk, not being a yes-man
- •Askren’s public stance on USADA/testing and Dana’s famous insults
- •Rogan’s view: what works matters more than what looks exciting
- •Examples of wrestling dominance and fight control as MMA fundamentals
- 9:19 – 13:16
Building an MMA game around ‘not getting hit’: wrestling advantages and durability
Askren describes how he deliberately designed his MMA approach: he didn’t need to be an elite striker, only hard to hit until he could wrestle and dominate. They broaden into why wrestlers often adapt well to MMA—competition reps, strength, discipline, and structured training culture.
- •Askren’s core MMA premise: avoid damage, force grappling, win with control
- •Wrestling as a system: repetition, mind-training, and strict coaching structure
- •Different “strength” of elite wrestlers (example: Jordan Burroughs)
- •Rogan: wrestling attracts purist competitors due to limited financial reward
- 13:16 – 22:00
Amateurism, NCAA/IOC criticism, and why athletes can’t profit from their own names
The conversation turns into athlete pay and the ethics of amateur systems. They criticize the NCAA, the IOC/USOC model, and rules that prevent athletes from monetizing image and likeness—even unrelated creative work like YouTube or music.
- •How top wrestlers historically made money (camps, coaching) vs today’s RTC funding
- •Foxcatcher and the grim incentives created by underfunded Olympic pathways
- •Rogan and Askren argue NCAA/IOC models are exploitative
- •Image-and-likeness restrictions: YouTube channels, rap albums, and “criminal” limits
- 22:00 – 34:38
Sports psychology and preparation: managing the mind, routines, and structured coaching
Askren explains his deep interest in sports psychology, including studying it formally and running “Mental Monday.” They discuss how athletes differ—overthinkers vs cowboys—and how structured systems (like college wrestling) create consistent performance habits that many MMA gyms still lack.
- •Askren’s ‘two sides of the coin’ model: ultra-preparer vs cowboy competitor
- •Mental training scarcity vs technique training abundance in combat sports
- •Askren’s personal strategy: stop thinking about the fight ~6 hours out
- •Wrestling Mindset program and broader applicability beyond wrestling
- •Why MMA coaching is hard: small competitive sample sizes vs wrestling volume
- 34:38 – 47:49
CTE, sparring, and the opioid crisis: risk, brain damage, and ‘don’t recommend MMA’
They debate what we know (and don’t know) about CTE, sub-concussive trauma, and how widespread neurological damage might be. Askren shares that after watching *Concussion* he nearly stopped sparring entirely, and they pivot into opioid prescribing and safer pain-management alternatives.
- •Askren’s shift: after *Concussion*, sparred only twice for the rest of his career
- •Subconcussive impacts vs concussions and the football comparison
- •Genes and confounders: steroids, alcohol, pain pills, and long-term outcomes
- •Rogan: never recommend MMA, but accept some people feel ‘called’ to it
- •Opioids and fentanyl: prescribing culture and discussions of CBD
- 47:49 – 1:07:37
Modern discourse and conspiracy thinking: labels, nuance, and media cycles
They discuss political labeling (e.g., “alt-right”), how shame and name-calling shut down dialogue, and why nuance gets ignored. This leads into conspiracies: how to stay skeptical without becoming consumed, and how fast the news cycle buries unresolved stories like the Vegas shooting.
- •Askren and Rogan on libertarian leanings and social-media box-checking
- •Why public figures get reduced to simplistic labels
- •The risk of conspiratorial thinking vs blind trust in mainstream narratives
- •Las Vegas shooting as an example of confusion, timeline shifts, and fading coverage
- •Sandy Hook as a boundary case: consequences of reckless conspiracy claims
- 1:07:37 – 1:27:47
9/11 to moon-landing doubts: open-minded skepticism vs ‘I don’t know enough’
Askren explains that 9/11 was his entry point into independent thinking, while Rogan warns about the seduction of conspiracies. They explore confirmed historical conspiracies (Tonkin, Northwoods, Paperclip), then dig into moon-landing questions—footage oddities, incentives, and the limits of personal expertise.
- •Askren’s view: planes happened; questions remain about preventability and foreknowledge
- •Rogan: intelligence always has warnings; failure doesn’t automatically imply ‘inside job’
- •Verified examples: Gulf of Tonkin, Operation Northwoods, Operation Paperclip
- •Moon landing: ‘went but some footage faked’ hypothesis vs full hoax
- •Rogan’s conclusion: conspiracies require humility about what you truly understand
- 1:27:47 – 1:34:54
The next evolution of MMA grappling: folkstyle stand-ups, guard decline, and bad strategy
Askren argues modern MMA has outpaced traditional guard play and demands wrestling-style stand-ups and position-first urgency. He critiques fighters who accept bottom positions (Douglas Lima vs Rory, Yamauchi vs Chandler), and highlights how elite top control and mat returns are becoming the true separator.
- •Guard effectiveness shrinking; bottom fighters must prioritize getting up
- •Lima–Rory: missed opportunity to stand when leg kicks were changing the fight
- •Half guard vs full guard trade-offs from a top-control perspective
- •Folkstyle concepts (base, stand-ups, control) as MMA’s next technical edge
- •Bad strategy as Askren’s biggest frustration—survival vs winning choices
- 1:34:54 – 1:54:27
ONE FC hydration weigh-ins and the weight-cut problem across combat sports
Askren explains ONE FC’s hydration + scale protocol and why he believes it should be adopted widely. They connect safer weigh-ins to performance, fewer cancellations, and less incentive to game dehydration, while comparing it to wrestling’s reforms after athlete deaths in the 1990s.
- •Hydration testing tied directly to weigh-ins (specific gravity threshold)
- •Multiple check days; passing early clears later obligations
- •Practical impact: most athletes effectively move up a weight class
- •Rogan cites severe weight-cut incidents (e.g., Hall/Belfort cancellation)
- •Wrestling’s post-’97 reforms and why MMA’s brain-injury risk changes the calculus
- 1:54:27 – 2:13:18
Training, PED realities, and Askren’s minimalist nutrition philosophy
They cover Askren’s approach to strength and conditioning (limited but high-paced work), why wrestlers develop “functional” strength, and the persistent role of PEDs—especially EPO—across eras and organizations. Askren also shares his unusually minimal supplement habits and how early weight loss shaped his discipline.
- •Askren’s MMA S&C: ~2–3 sessions/week, high-tempo ‘CrossFit-like’ work
- •Why wrestling-specific strength doesn’t always show in the weight room
- •PED discussion: Russian doping (Icarus), EPO suspicions, USADA-era body changes
- •Askren avoids supplements entirely to reduce contamination/PR risk
- •Early-life discipline: losing 30 lbs at age 11 and long-term diet habits
- 2:13:18 – 2:16:03
What’s next: coaching wrestling, avoiding bureaucracy, and promoting his podcast
As they wrap, Askren explains he plans to coach wrestling long-term and prefers business ownership freedom over institutional constraints. Rogan plugs Askren’s wrestling podcast and social channels as they close the episode.
- •Askren’s future: wrestling academies, coaching for life, autonomy over bureaucracy
- •Why he likely won’t return to collegiate coaching despite loving the high-level room
- •Podcast plug: ‘The T-Row and Funky Show’ (wrestling-focused)
- •Where to follow Askren: Twitter @BenAskren and other platforms
