JRE MMA Show #123 with BJ Penn

1. 0:01 – 0:39

   BJ Penn’s “Governor of Hawaii” pitch and why COVID was the tipping point

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      (drumming music) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

   2. BPBJ Penn0:04

      The Joe Rogan Experience.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music) Ladies and gentlemen, the future governor of Hawaii, BJ Penn.

   4. BPBJ Penn0:19

      (laughs) what's going on, Joe?

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:21

      What's happening, brother? Good to see you.

   6. BPBJ Penn0:22

      Good to see you, man.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      You're dedicated to this man.

   8. BPBJ Penn0:25

      Yes.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:25

      I need a shirt.

   10. BPBJ Penn0:26

       You got it.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:27

       I need one.

   12. BPBJ Penn0:27

       We got 'em here.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:28

       I need a "Penn for governor."

   14. BPBJ Penn0:29

       Thank you.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       If I wear it in Hawaii, will I get mugged? Will they attack me and duct-

   16. BPBJ Penn0:33

       They'll-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       ... tape me and throw me in the back of a police van? (laughs)

   18. BPBJ Penn0:34

       They'll cheer you on and then you gotta tell them, "Are you guys registered?"

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       (laughs)

   20. BPBJ Penn0:38

       You make sure ... (laughs) They'll love ya.

2. 0:39 – 2:42

   Hawaii’s anti-business bottlenecks: regulations, taxes, and slow bureaucracy

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:39

      How is it going? What is it... First of all, what made you deci- ... It was the COVID lockdowns, right, that made you decide?

   2. BPBJ Penn0:45

      You know what? That's the ... You know, people ask me, they go, "Would you be running for office if this pandemic didn't happen?" And I tell them all the same thing, I say, "This is the straw that broke the camel's back." I've always noticed the problems here with the economy, how anti-busines they are, how, uh, we've all ... Since I was in high school, we've always been in last place, our education, you know? So, uh, yeah, and-

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:08

      When you say anti-busines, like, how are they anti-busines? What are they doing?

   4. BPBJ Penn1:11

      As far as, uh, with the regulations, it takes so long, you know. Go ... You go to the planning department and they hold you up for another eight months, and it's just ... You know, the taxes are so high. We got the highest, uh, high, the highest state income tax and-

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:25

      What is the state income tax in Hawaii?

   6. BPBJ Penn1:27

      Um, what is ... (sighs) I don't think ... I don't got the exact number right now-

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:31

      Well, we'll get Jamie, Jamie to pull it up.

   8. BPBJ Penn1:32

      ... but, but we talk about that, yeah, we talk about that often.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:35

      Well, uh, I think California is like 13 something, 13+%. There's even talk there about raising it up. You know, it's, um, (clicks tongue) it's, it's a shame that you feel that everything is that bad, that you r- ... Like, you feel called to do it, but I know you, and I know you wouldn't do this unless you really felt like there was a need for change. You're not a guy that, like, wants to be running the government.

   10. BPBJ Penn2:03

       Y-

   11. JRJoe Rogan2:03

       You're a guy who just doesn't wanna be fucked with and pushed around, and when you see th- b- what you consider your people, your friends, your family, your-

   12. BPBJ Penn2:10

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan2:10

       ... your neighbors getting their businesses fucked over-

   14. BPBJ Penn2:13

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan2:13

       ... and getting, getting l- locked out of work, and having regulations put in place to make difficult to ... make it difficult to start a business in the first place.

   16. BPBJ Penn2:21

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan2:22

       So, what would you do different in terms of like, what are they doing? Like, where you're saying, like, planning and regulations, like, what is that about? Is that about concerns for the environment because you're on an island? Like, what is that?

   18. BPBJ Penn2:32

       I don't know why they're just so slow. They're just so slow with that stuff.

   19. JRJoe Rogan2:37

       Do you think it's just inefficient, or you think maybe they're overwhelmed? Like, what do you think it is?

3. 2:42 – 6:23

   MMA in Hawaii as a case study in overregulation (and ‘Rumble on the Rock’ history)

   1. BPBJ Penn2:42

      I think inefficient and, and I think ... You know, jo- let's just take ... I see this happen a lot when they, when they start regulating something. I mean, here we were doing MMA in Hawaii. It got ... We were ... You remember how m-

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:54

      Yeah.

   3. BPBJ Penn2:55

      ... big MMA got, and then-

   4. JRJoe Rogan2:56

      Rumble in the Rock, son.

   5. BPBJ Penn2:57

      Yeah. (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan2:57

      I remember you putting on your own promotion. That was fantastic.

   7. BPBJ Penn3:00

      Oh, thank you.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:01

      Come on, man, that was d- ... Like, in the early days of MMA, Rumble on the Rock was classic, man.

   9. BPBJ Penn3:05

      That was something.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:05

       You had some fucking great fights.

   11. BPBJ Penn3:08

       (laughs) We did, we did. We had Tank Abbott, we had everybody in there.

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:10

       You had great fights. As far as like, a lot of times, un- unfortunately with like smaller promotions, when they try to branch off away from the UFC, they can't get top tier talent. You know, you get guys that are on the way out, or you get guys that maybe couldn't compete at the, with the best of the best. But Rumble in the Rock was the shit, dude.

   13. BPBJ Penn3:28

       (laughs) It was. It was-

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:29

       How many did you do? You do two?

   15. BPBJ Penn3:31

       No, we had a bunch of Rumble on the Rocks, actually.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:33

       How many did you do?

   17. BPBJ Penn3:34

       We must've di- ... I think we had five or six of them.

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:36

       Oh, wow.

   19. BPBJ Penn3:37

       But you know what happened? Elite XC came in, bought everybody up.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:41

       Mm-hmm.

   21. BPBJ Penn3:41

       Except for King of the Cage, they didn't sell. And then they went down and they crashed everybody's c- ... It was almost like it was a ... Not a c- ... Like a con- ... Like let's send these guys in-

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:50

       Yeah.

   23. BPBJ Penn3:51

       ... to buy everybody and crash everybody, but-

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:53

       Well, I think, BJ, i- it just people saw money in it. You know, 'cause I remember those days.

   25. BPBJ Penn3:58

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:58

       I remember, like, people asking me questions. There was a lot of people asking questions. "How come it's only the UFC? Like, why don't ... Why aren't there other organizations?"

   27. BPBJ Penn4:04

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:04

       Everybody thought it was easy and then Elite XC came along and that camp about Slice and those-

   29. BPBJ Penn4:09

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:10

       You know, they had some fun fights, right?
4. 6:23 – 9:46

   Retirement, identity, and transferring fighter toughness into politics

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:23

      Um, when, uh, are you done, are you done fighting, 100%?

   2. BPBJ Penn6:28

      I'm done.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:28

      You're done?

   4. BPBJ Penn6:29

      I'm done, 100%. And it was hard for me to get out after being in there for 20 years. I mean, that's your identity.

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:35

      Yeah.

   6. BPBJ Penn6:36

      You know? And, and then I just kinda got into trying to be a father, you know, and I was doing that thing, try to be around more. And then, and then all this stuff happened, and I find myself in here. But I do think, eh, all the blood, all the tears, all the sweat, all the, all the ups and downs, all the good media, all the bad media, all of that was to prepare me for, for, you know, for this, kinda. You know, I, I, I, I see, like, everything that they're gonna throw at me, I can kinda see, like, "Well, I kinda been through that." (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan7:14

      Yeah. (laughs)

   8. BPBJ Penn7:14

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan7:14

      Yeah, the ju- the mental warfare, the men- mental warfare that a fighter has to go through. I mean, my God, there's nothing like it in all sports.

   10. BPBJ Penn7:22

       Yeah. And, you know, when I first got e- decided to get into this, I was like, you know ... I, I haven't, I hav- I was just retired, so I wasn't trying to keep my, everything, you know, perfect in public, and this and that.

   11. JRJoe Rogan7:37

       Right.

   12. BPBJ Penn7:37

       I was just running around trying to ... I was just a guy trying to come off of a 20-year, uh, journey of being the baddest man on the planet. And then, I had ... uh, so it was tough. It was really tough to get over, you know, that identity.

   13. JRJoe Rogan7:54

       Mm.

   14. BPBJ Penn7:54

       So, as, as time went, you know, I was just living my life, some more ups and downs. I, like I say, you know, sometimes I was judged fairly, other times I wasn't, you know? And ...

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:05

       Well, BJ, when you were on top, you were one of the baddest motherfuckers on Earth. You really were. You were a guy who went all the way up to heavyweight to fight Lyoto Machida.

   16. BPBJ Penn8:14

       Mm-hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:14

       I mean, it's, I remember that fight.

   18. BPBJ Penn8:16

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan8:16

       I mean, you did some wild shit, dude, and y- you were strangling a lot of fucking people, man.

   20. BPBJ Penn8:21

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan8:21

       And for jujitsu guys, like for all my jujitsu guys, you were the fucking man, 'cause you were a smaller guy who choked out Matt Hughes. You know, who was so fucking good at the time, man.

   22. BPBJ Penn8:32

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan8:32

       And Matt Hughes was a tank.

   24. BPBJ Penn8:34

       Yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan8:34

       When you got his back, and, and choked him, everybody's like, "Oh, shit."

   26. BPBJ Penn8:38

       Jujitsu's back. (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan8:39

       Like, people forgot. They forgot those times, BJ. And, you know, there was a run, like the Sean Sherk days.

   28. BPBJ Penn8:45

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan8:46

       The D- Diego Sanchez days. You were a scary motherfucker, dude. You were a scary motherfucker.

   30. BPBJ Penn8:52

       Yeah.
5. 9:46 – 12:52

   Strength & conditioning revolution: the Marinovich methods and ‘hunger’ as the X-factor

   1. BPBJ Penn9:46

      Man, I, I, I did (clears throat) , I loved it. You know, g- uh, one of the Marinovic, uh, M- wait, what's, what's Marinovich's-

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:54

      Marv?

   3. BPBJ Penn9:54

      Yeah, M- well, Marv passed away.

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:56

      Yeah.

   5. BPBJ Penn9:56

      But Gary's at my house in Hawaii right now. He's training some football teams or something, and he, he has to come down, and it's great to have, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:05

      How did, how did that connection happen? Because they basically changed the way you did strength and conditioning, right?

   7. BPBJ Penn10:10

      Yes.

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:11

      Well, how did that, how'd y- how'd this introduction happen?

   9. BPBJ Penn10:14

      They, uh, yeah, how did it ... My brother met ... How did I run into them? I forget how exactly, but I think my brother introduced me to them, and, and when they ... They were just geniuses, man. And n- no matter how good you are, they were 50 years ahead. I remember we were at, uh, in UCLA or something, and they had that, a little cone pattern, and they had me run it to see my agility, and Marv said, "Well, that's too slow." And the lady said, "Well, how do you know?" And he said, "Because I made it up." (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:44

       (laughs)

   11. BPBJ Penn10:44

       I mean, these guys were just ahead of everybody, man. And, uh, they were the guys with the NFL Combine, and everything was speed, because he noticed that, like, the strongest guys who had the strongest squat, the biggest bench press, and all that, they had the lowest numbers on the field. And then that's how we started to put in the agility, the speed, the movement-

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:04

       Hmm.

   13. BPBJ Penn11:05

       ... the, the reflexes, and going back ... So they were, they were really ahead of their time.

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:09

       Yeah, it was wild to watch, man. They looked like they were torturing you. (laughs)

   15. BPBJ Penn11:14

       (laughs) He, it was, you know what? Looking back now, I see everybody, and I look at them now, all, who eats the most at the buffet, the hungriest one? And that's the whole thing. No matter what, I'll look, and I'll just be like, "I- is he still hungry?" That's the only question, uh, I, or, or does he, yeah-

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:31

       Yeah.

   17. BPBJ Penn11:31

       ... does he still wanna eat as much? Because literally, a lot of these guys, they haven't ate filet mignon before. They haven't ate lobster, and they're still thinking about what's that gonna taste like when they g- when they finally get the opportunity to buy that for their family.

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:43

       Yeah, there's like a balance, right, of how long you can maintain that hunger.

   19. BPBJ Penn11:48

       Yes.

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:48

       How long can you maintain that f- ferocity?

   21. BPBJ Penn11:51

       Yep. It has nothing to do with who's the best. It's who wants it the most.

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:54

       Mm-hmm.

   23. BPBJ Penn11:54

       That's what it is. And that's what I thought about ... I mean, I kinda knew that about martial arts. I mean, you go in there, and ... (clears throat) You be ... right? As quick and as violent as an ... in ... and as intimidating as possible when you get in there. But believe me, I believe ... I ... just like me, even at my best, I'm like, "What can I get ... what can I do to make the referee stop this? How can (laughs) I make the referee stop this thing?" Because you're nervous, right? The hero and the coward, they're both scared.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:23

       Mm-hmm.

   25. BPBJ Penn12:23

       But the hero's gonna step forward.

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:26

       Yeah, you were a wild motherfucker in your prime, brother.

   27. BPBJ Penn12:28

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:28

       You were a wild motherfucker. You were fun to watch. The Dean Thomas fight. There was a lot of fights that were, like, "Holy shit."

   29. BPBJ Penn12:35

       Nothing else mattered to me in my life at that time than, than being the, the, the toughest and most skilled martial artist on the planet, and just fighter. I c- ... I didn't consider myself a martial artist, I just thought of myself as a fighter. "I'll beat you up," or ... (laughs)

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:51

       (laughs) Exactly. You, you were ...
6. 12:52 – 16:05

   Fight-camp conflict: conditioning vs sparring, and the real fight happening ‘the night before’

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:52

      You were certainly doing that, man. And so, when did you ... did you continue that kind of strength and conditioning routine, or did you stop doing it after a while?

   2. BPBJ Penn13:03

      Um, uh, people start to fall apart and different ideas, and coaches start to fight with each other. And, you know? And I ... uh, that's what happened with, with that stuff. Uh, Marv kinda went his own way because as you get six weeks out from the fight, your boxing coach is screaming, "He's gotta spar!"

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:22

      Hmm.

   4. BPBJ Penn13:22

      "He's gotta spar!" And then the other guy is like, "No, this is enough." And then they start going, and then it has a reaction on you.

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:30

      Let, let's explain it to everybody because this is the philos- ... there are two different philosophies. The, the Marinviches believe that you already know how to fight.

   6. BPBJ Penn13:37

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:38

      All you need to do is just get in ridiculous condition.

   8. BPBJ Penn13:41

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:42

      And so they were just gonna put you through that. And what did you do, like, light drills other than that? Like, hitting pads? Like, what kind of stuff did you do? But no sparring, right?

   10. BPBJ Penn13:50

       Well, maybe not even pads. Just different things. Speed. A lot of good stuff. Uh, we'd do ladders.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:56

       So-

   12. BPBJ Penn13:56

       We would do that water workout stuff.

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:59

       And they thought that that was more important than anything?

   14. BPBJ Penn14:02

       Yes, and it was very important. I will never say that it wa- it wasn't, you know? And then on the other side, it's the sa- ... it's ... people say, "Do you coach? Do you train?" I say, "No," but if I did, I'll tell you what I would do. I would show up to the gym, I'd tell another coach that had his fighter, and I would say, "Hey, coach. Can my boy get a couple rounds with your boy to- ... with your boy tomorrow?" And then I'd look at my guy and go, "Kick his ass tomorrow." And then I'd leave him and make him go home and think about it all night because the act of ... the physical act of fighting, that ain't the fight. It's the going home and thinking about it all night long. Anybody can get into a fight real quick in school, but when they say, "Meet me at the park after," and the whole school shows up-

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:39

       (laughs)

   16. BPBJ Penn14:39

       ... now that's the fight. You know? Y-

   17. JRJoe Rogan14:42

       Or, "I'll meet you in four months."

   18. BPBJ Penn14:43

       (laughs) Yeah, y-

   19. JRJoe Rogan14:44

       You know, like, for a UFC card.

   20. BPBJ Penn14:46

       Right? Isn't that amazing?

   21. JRJoe Rogan14:47

       That's when it gets wild, right? When you're planning these fights months out, and everybody gets to know that it's coming.

   22. BPBJ Penn14:52

       Yes. But tha- that's it. Sleeping with that.

   23. JRJoe Rogan14:55

       Mm-hmm.

   24. BPBJ Penn14:55

       That is ... that's what it's all about. Sleeping with it, controlling it, internalizing it.

   25. JRJoe Rogan15:01

       That was one of the things that seemed to weigh heavy-

   26. BPBJ Penn15:04

       (coughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan15:04

       ... on Aldo when he was meeting up with Conor. Like, particularly for the first fight.

   28. BPBJ Penn15:09

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JRJoe Rogan15:10

       Uh, for, for ... uh, the, the first fight that, uh, Conor fought for the title, when he knocked him out quick. It seemed like Aldo was emotionally invested-

   30. BPBJ Penn15:19

       Mm-hmm.
7. 16:05 – 52:09

   Modern MMA evolution: weight-cut science, deeper talent pool, and new striking trends

   1. JRJoe Rogan16:05

      ... look like he's lost anything in getting down to that weight. It's just like he's doing it the right way. They're ... the fucking scientists that can get people to do that now.

   2. BPBJ Penn16:13

      Andre Pederneiras. (laughs) Sure.

   3. JRJoe Rogan16:14

      Those weight-cutting scientists.

   4. BPBJ Penn16:16

      They're amazing.

   5. JRJoe Rogan16:17

      You know, those, those guys are ... they've got it down to, like, every gram of sh- ... salt you're gonna take into your body and how much water and, like-

   6. BPBJ Penn16:25

      Right? Um, what is it? Three ... is it three ... uh, a, a calorie of, uh, a carbohydrate holds. Th- they know exactly how much water each carbohydrate holds (laughs) in your body.

   7. JRJoe Rogan16:38

      When you hear those guys talk about weight cutting and they start breaking out notepads and writing down your exact body weight and-

   8. BPBJ Penn16:44

      Right?

   9. JRJoe Rogan16:44

      ... how much you can take off. Like-

   10. BPBJ Penn16:47

       Well, that's ... you don't ... you see all of that. That's ... when, when they ask me about what, what, what can ... "What do you ... what did you learn from MMA that you can bring into, to this governor thing, to this, to this work?" And that's what I always say 'cause I, I don't know all the answers that I'll be asked, but I got a team of people who do, and that was MMA, right?

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:07

       Yeah.

   12. BPBJ Penn17:07

       We got our jujitsu guy. We got our boxing coach. We got our kickboxing coach. We got our strength and conditioning coach. We got our, our nutritionist. We got our ... You know? And that's, that's what it's about, surrounding yourself with the best team. I mean, you ask me, "Hey, when did you win that belt?" And I'll say, "Oh, we won the belt on this day." Because it really is. It's always a team. And even you sitting here-

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:28

       Yeah.

   14. BPBJ Penn17:28

       ... with the martial arts, right? When you think about it, you think about your sensei and the people who've helped you, you know, get ... build your martial arts game.

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:36

       Sure. Yeah.

   16. BPBJ Penn17:37

       And it's, it's a team.

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:38

       Yeah. D- you can't do it by yourself. It's impossible.

   18. BPBJ Penn17:40

       Nope. I mean, uh, you do get into arguments, and you do say, "Hey, when the bell rings, everybody else is gonna sit out. I'm gonna stand up." But-

   19. JRJoe Rogan17:50

       (laughs)

   20. BPBJ Penn17:50

       ... (laughs) you know, you do. You-

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:51

       Right.

   22. BPBJ Penn17:51

       ... 'cause the team argues, you know?

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:53

       Right.

   24. BPBJ Penn17:53

       Everybody gets into it.

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:55

       But you, you, you have to have someone teaching you. There's, there's no way you can learn. I mean, even if you're learning off videotapes. Someone's ... someone teaches you.

   26. BPBJ Penn18:04

       Yeah. Everything I know-

   27. JRJoe Rogan18:05

       Yeah.

   28. BPBJ Penn18:05

       ... I've been taught.

   29. JRJoe Rogan18:06

       Yeah.

   30. BPBJ Penn18:06

       You know? I ... m-I, I'm not gonna say I made up anything, but maybe somebody didn't show me some stuff, but it's already been done. All this stuff.
8. 52:09 – 59:50

   Weight cutting as a safety issue: hydration tests, IV bans, and fighting at ‘natural weight’

   1. JRJoe Rogan52:09

      And maybe there's a lot of guys that if they didn't have to cut that extra five pounds, they would be way better, 'cause they wouldn't be depleted.

   2. BPBJ Penn52:16

      Yeah, that's the worst thing you could possibly do to your body before you're gonna fight the toughest person you've ever fought in your whole life-

   3. JRJoe Rogan52:22

      (laughs) It's so crazy.

   4. BPBJ Penn52:23

      ... and starve yourselves to death, and then go, "Let's go fight the guy."

   5. JRJoe Rogan52:26

      BJ, it's so illogical, and it drives me crazy, and it's one of those things that I think we're stuck with for no good reason. It's a bad tradition.

   6. BPBJ Penn52:33

      How did it start?

   7. JRJoe Rogan52:34

      It doesn't... I don't-

   8. BPBJ Penn52:34

      How did the weigh-in tradition start from boxing?

   9. JRJoe Rogan52:37

      Well, they kn- they-

   10. BPBJ Penn52:38

       Or fighting?

   11. JRJoe Rogan52:38

       They did in boxing for sure.

   12. BPBJ Penn52:40

       Olympics.

   13. JRJoe Rogan52:40

       Guys cut weight in boxing. And unfortunately, in boxing, they would cut weight and fight the day they weighed in, which is even worse.

   14. BPBJ Penn52:45

       But they don't do it like us, right? 'Cause remember when Mayweather fought, um, uh, McGregor? Mayweather was like on weight that day, and that was like his real weight.

   15. JRJoe Rogan52:53

       Yeah.

   16. BPBJ Penn52:53

       And McGregor was trying to cut 20-

   17. JRJoe Rogan52:55

       Yeah.

   18. BPBJ Penn52:55

       ... and put 20 back on.

   19. JRJoe Rogan52:57

       That's just 'cause Mayweather didn't give a fuck.

   20. BPBJ Penn52:58

       Do we just do it wrong?

   21. JRJoe Rogan52:59

       No.

   22. BPBJ Penn53:00

       Or is it-

   23. JRJoe Rogan53:00

       Mayweather just didn't give a fuck.

   24. BPBJ Penn53:01

       And the wrestler mentality that we have in... M- MMA, a lot of mentalities came from a lot of different sports. We have certain part has a boxing mentality.

   25. JRJoe Rogan53:08

       Right.

   26. BPBJ Penn53:09

       A certain has a wrestling mentality with the cut weight type of thing. Then you've got that jiu-jitsu mentality mixed in there. But was that a wrestling thing? For us, it's, that's ingrained in us.

   27. JRJoe Rogan53:18

       Yeah.

   28. BPBJ Penn53:18

       Like, "Hey, if you're gonna cut weight, make sure you weigh 20 pounds over the next day. Don't make that your real weight."

   29. JRJoe Rogan53:24

       I think that definitely was prominent in wrestling, but it was prominent in boxing too, you know.

   30. BPBJ Penn53:29

       Okay.
9. 59:50 – 1:07:00

   PED culture, USADA changes, and BJ’s ‘clean era’ perspective

   1. BPBJ Penn59:50

      And in MMA, uh, uh, what I noticed because, you know, I, I realize that people will admit that they cheated on their wife before they say that they, that they didn't compete fair.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:02

      They ... (laughs) Yeah.

   3. BPBJ Penn1:00:02

      Yeah. (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:03

      I know.

   5. BPBJ Penn1:00:03

      You know? It just it is what it is.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:04

      Well, in your era, to be fair, you were one of the only guys that was adamant about that.

   7. BPBJ Penn1:00:09

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:09

      A lot of people just shut the fuck up.

   9. BPBJ Penn1:00:11

      And, and, and still till today I, I, I say, I say, "Hey, wherever you wanna ... I'm the only guy, 155 and 170, that got s- that got both belts, but if you wanna add this into the rankings, I really didn't, I really didn't do that stuff." You know what I mean?

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:23

       Yeah.

   11. BPBJ Penn1:00:24

       So, uh, I always say that til-

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

       No, you really didn't.

   13. BPBJ Penn1:00:26

       -t- yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

       No, you really didn't.

   15. BPBJ Penn1:00:27

       You know, and then and then, um, I remember, 'cause I didn't even, uh, USADA just came and, uh, and I w- then we were gonna take an, uh, a glutathione IV. We, I, I never take IVs anyway, you know, but I just to- I was like, "Oh, okay, okay, I'll take it." And then I told USADA, "Yeah, I took an IV," and then they busted me for it 'cause I think they just wanted to show that they had teeth or whatever. But I'm really one of the only guys who didn't, you know what I mean?

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:50

       So just using any kind of an IV?

   17. BPBJ Penn1:00:53

       Yeah, uh, and it, 'cause it-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:54

       Why did you want glutathione?

   19. BPBJ Penn1:00:55

       Yeah, no, th- uh, we were just at a-

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:57

       Were you partying?

   21. BPBJ Penn1:00:58

       -at a place. No, no, we were, we were at a, um, they were doing f-... what's that, where they take all your blood and they see what you're allergic to for the-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

       Uh-huh.

   23. BPBJ Penn1:01:06

       ... food? That's why we were there. And the guys just kept talking to me to it, and I'm just like, "Okay, whatever. Go ahead." They kept talking me to it. Shouldn't even have... Of course, you're not gonna feel-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:14

       So they just talks you into a glutathione drip, or what?

   25. BPBJ Penn1:01:16

       (laughs) Yeah. You know how when you're in some place, right?

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:18

       Yeah.

   27. BPBJ Penn1:01:18

       And they just, they just-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:19

       Glutathione, I think it's an antioxidant.

   29. BPBJ Penn1:01:21

       Ah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:21

       But one of the things that I know it for is, uh, alcohol. It helps your body, uh, process alcohol better.

Episode duration: 3:08:30