EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,000 words- 0:00 – 1:07
Buckley’s viral spinning back-kick KO and how it actually happened
- JRJoe Rogan
(drumming music plays) Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.
- NANarrator
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- JRJoe Rogan
Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. (rock music plays) What up, Mr. Puckey?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
What you saying? What you saying?
- JRJoe Rogan
How are you, sir?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Man, I'm doing good, Joe.
- JRJoe Rogan
Good to have you in here, man.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, man. Thanks for having me.
- JRJoe Rogan
You are the owner of the most highlighted, the most viral video in the history of MMA, I think. That fucking-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
I appreciate that.
- JRJoe Rogan
... jump spinning back kick to the face.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so, man. You know, uh, it took a minute for me to actually, like, think that it is, you know what I mean, because there's so many other, like, awesome knockouts out there, you know, like my man, you know, Dan Hindover, you know, Bisping, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... with the H-bomb. And then with my man, Eson Barboza with the, you know, spinning heel kick on-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... Terry Edham, you know. And, uh, like Francis Ngannou, you know what I'm saying, like just-
- JRJoe Rogan
There's a lot.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... so many, like, different heavy hitters out there with, with great KOs, you know. But once I really, like, sat back and looked at it and it took some time to actually, like, take everything in, I'm like, "Yeah, that's pretty dope that I did that."
- JRJoe Rogan
But yours was crazy-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, he is.
- JRJoe Rogan
... 'cause he's holding one foot-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and you jump spinning back kick him in the face with the other foot.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, that is just wild.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, come ... Have you ever done that in a fight before?
- 1:07 – 3:10
Self-taught striking: learning kicks from YouTube, Rogan/GSP clips, and Raymond Daniels
- JBJoaquin Buckley
No. So that was my first time. So, you know, if, if you want to really hear it, man, it's, it's, it's a long story with it because nobody taught me that kick, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Like I never had an instructor.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Never had ... No, not at all. You know, I was just fascinated with martial arts, you know, since I was a little kid, you know, and, uh, you know, once I got, you know, started with MMA and stuff like that, the gym where I came from, it could only teach so much. The instructors only knew so much, you know what I mean? It was just like a mom and pop, you know, gym type stuff where, you know, a lot of, you know, people just get there to, you know, get into shape, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Um, but overall though, when I used to go on YouTube, I used to watch a lot of different videos, you know, on how to, you know, not just train as a mixed martial artist, but just to learn, like, different moves and techniques from different disciplines.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
From, uh, not just TaeKwonDo but, you know, Hapkido, you know, Kyokushin, uh, uh, sans- Sanshou, you know, all these different disciplines that I used to take from. And, uh, then once I looked at the disciplines, I looked at who are the best people in it. Right? And then I looked at different people that's, uh, in those disciplines, whatever, and guess who I ran into when I got into TaeKwonDo? I seen one of your videos.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JBJoaquin Buckley
No, no, for real, for real. On, uh, you taught, uh, Georges St-Pierre, like how to correctly throw the, uh, spinning back kick.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know what I mean? But you at first showed him how to throw the sidekick. And I used to watch those videos, you know, over and over again, you know, and then it evolved when I seen Raymond Daniels perform-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh my God.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... the two-touch.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. He did that-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You understand?
- JRJoe Rogan
... two-touch. That's-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that's probably one of the biggest highlight reels in kickboxing history.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Big facts, right? You know, but I seen it, I was like, "Man, that's dope," 'cause I ... It's a level up-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... from what you showing, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
So I used to perform that on the bag, on the heavy bag all the time.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
And people are like, "Man, what are you doing?" Like, whatever, but I used to generate so much power when I used to balance, you know, uh, my right foot on there, 'cause, uh ... Uh, not my right, but my left foot, 'cause I would come in, like a roundhouse kick 'cause I'm a southpaw-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... I would balance on the bag and then I would propel myself off the bag and I would spin and we used to make this, this hard pop like a shotgun, right, and it would bend the entire bag. So I'm like, "Bro, I feel, like, so powerful, like, throwing this kick." You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- 3:10 – 6:34
Old-school kicking legends: Michael Jai White, Bill ‘Superfoot’ Wallace, and front-leg mastery
- JRJoe Rogan
You know who's got some of the best instructionals of that, of, like, traditional kicks, like sidekicks and turning sidekicks?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Who would you-
- JRJoe Rogan
Michael Jai White.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Oh, I'm already hip.
- JRJoe Rogan
Pff.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
I'm already hip. Watch the thousand.
- JRJoe Rogan
Michael Jai White had-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... some sharp technique.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah. Big facts, big facts. And on, uh, top of that, even before him, Bill Superfoot Wallace.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Come on now.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know what I mean? So-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... you know what I mean? He-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, he had the best hook kick ever.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Oh my God.
- JRJoe Rogan
His hook kick was incredible.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is the thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
'Cause, you know, he only had one knee. His knee was fucked up.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, big facts. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
And that's why ... 'Cause, uh, he used to do, like, Judo.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know, he used to do throws-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yep.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... and stuff. He couldn't do it anymore, so he ended up transitioning just to kickboxing but-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... like, he taught himself how to just fight on that, just that one side.
- 6:34 – 9:40
Movies as martial arts ‘male role models’ and Buckley’s late start in formal training
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Uh, I guess I can attribute that all from martial arts movies.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's wild.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Lit- literally all from martial arts.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
And like, people think it's a joke, but literally when I was a kid, you know, uh, you know, just growing up, you know, I mean, my mom, you know, raised me. She was, you know, single mother and stuff like that. So she can only do so much, you know what I mean? So I was on the TV all the time. That's what raised me. You know what I'm saying?
- JRJoe Rogan
Just watching and-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Just watching, yeah, yeah-
- JRJoe Rogan
... drawing kicks?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... big facts, you know. Uh, 'cause I was around a lot of women, you know. So when she needed help, I was with my godmother Erica and stuff like that. And I was with, you know, my godsisters and stuff like that. So it was a lot of, you know, women around. So I was looking for male influences and the fastest way I could find it was just on TV.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know what I mean? So just looking at Bruce Lee, looking at Jackie Chan, looking like Michael Jai White, Donnie Yen, Tony Jaa.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Like, these are the guys I'm like, "Oh, man, I want to be like them."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know what I mean? So, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's amazing how many people got influenced to fighting and to traditional martial arts-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... from movies.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Big facts. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, so it's like the best-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Some of the greatest kickboxers will tell you who. Bruce Lee.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah, Bruce Lee.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Bruce Lee is the one that got them into it, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
It's the best salesperson ever is those movies.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, big facts, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, you look at like the emergence of karate academies in the country after Bruce Lee movies, it's like through the roof.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm. Yep, yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
Everybody wanted to learn.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm. Including J- Chuck Norris, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- 9:40 – 11:00
Early amateur MMA in Missouri: rule sets, matchmaking, and gym development problems
- JRJoe Rogan
And so when you were 18, how long was it before you had your first fight?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Uh, (laughs) bro, it actually didn't take long. I think it was like a little bit of like, uh, nine months-
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... 10 months into training and I had my first fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Was it an MMA fight?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, yeah. It was an MMA fight. Yeah, so in Missouri, in St. Louis, whatever. So as amateurs, like, we didn't need the headgear, we didn't need to wear like shin guards, nothing. So you fought like a pro, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
The only thing that you couldn't do was like heel hooks and knee to the head. Everything-
- JRJoe Rogan
No heel hooks?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
No heel hooks, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Interesting.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, no heel hooks. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But all the other submissions are okay?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah. And no elbows. Every other submission-
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh-huh.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... was cool. And no elbows, no knees, no cuts, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
And then no heel hooks. That was the only, only rule.
- JRJoe Rogan
So just a few limitations.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, uh, so did they have a, a comprehensive amateur program there? Like, uh, or was it, was it balanced? Were you fighting someone that had experience or were you just fighting another person without fighting?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Uh, no, I was just fighting another person, man. Like, I don't think it was balanced yet, you know, even in 2012, you know. Uh, everybody had the showdown, you know, uh, so like, you know, the promoter, you know what I mean? Putting fights together and everything, but people were still trying to figure out actually like the gym-wise or how to, you know, um, develop a fighter, if that makes sense, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Uh, because I feel like still to this day that a lot of MMA gyms still not doing it right, you know? But that's a whole nother conversation for a whole nother day. So a lot of these guys that was in amateur fighting just wanted to fight just to get a feel for it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know, and th- those are the type of guys I was fighting almost like at my, at the amateur level, you know?
- 11:00 – 14:12
Small gym vs mega gym: structure, safety, and individualized coaching
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, when we, we had dinner that one night, we were talking about the difference between going to a big gym and the way you're doing it at a smaller gym.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And there's, uh, some interesting conversation to be had about that because you made some really good points about when you're in a smaller gym, you get individualized attention and you're not getting lost in the crowd.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that there's so much information out there already-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... with all the videos that are out there-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Man.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and all the fights you can watch.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
So much. So, so sometimes it's good just to be, um... So my coach is a perfect example, right? He have us working on the same thing over and over and over again. And we know it and we know it by like a heartbeat, but, and we tell the coach like, "Hey coach, can we do something different?" He's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I want y'all to do this."... you know what I mean? And you need that type of discipline, whatever it is, just to keep doing the same thing because that's how you actually work on your tools. You work on the basics over and over again, you know what I'm saying? Where then it becomes instinct, you know. So even though we have so much applied knowledge out there and so many things that we can do, sometimes it's, like, the basic knowledge that we have. And if we work with a smaller gym, we're able to focus on that a little bit more-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... you know, as a team, you know, instead of everybody just doing their own thing. Because I don't care what nobody say, like, big gyms, everybody just doing their own thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Everybody just working with who they working with, you know. They not even working with the coach unless they got a name and they got a big fight coming up, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's the thing, right, because that's what I hear. It's like you get two arguments. One of them is iron sharpens iron.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
So if you're around... Like, if you go to ATT, if you're at American Top Team, (sighs) world-class facility, giant place-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... dormitories-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
(laughs) .
- JRJoe Rogan
... world-class guys coming from all over the world.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
They got all the, they got all the- Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
But when I've talked to fighters who train there, they said, "Look, man, you get in there with some Russian dude you never met before-"
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
"... and he's trying to kill you."
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah. Big fact.
- JRJoe Rogan
And the, the, and that there's no supervision. Like, if you're not a world-class guy-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... if you're not a top-of-the-food-chain guy-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- 14:12 – 17:35
Buckley’s team setup: wrestling academy roots, conditioning, and practical jiu-jitsu coaching
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it sounds like your coach is a fantastic coach.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Ah, he one of the best in the world.
- JRJoe Rogan
What, what's his name?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Uh, Joaquin Murcielago. So we got the same first name.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's, that's crazy.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
(laughs) .
- JRJoe Rogan
That's an odd name. (laughs) .
- JBJoaquin Buckley
(laughs) .
- JRJoe Rogan
There's not a lot of those Joaquins out there.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Right, right. No, I'm kidding.
- JRJoe Rogan
So when you're, um... What, what is the name of the gym?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Uh, Mercy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, and, and when you're working, uh, with him, it's, like, specifically with him and a bunch of other people? Or, like, how, how does he structure-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
So, so he, so he, he's the head coach, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... um, for MMA-wise. And then we have, uh, Nick Simmons. So the gym itself is called S.A.W.T. Academy. It's a wrestling, um, academy. So he, he has a lot of, uh, high-level prospect high school wrestlers, middle school wrestlers, some of the best wrestlers, you know what I'm saying, in the nation, you know, uh, that come to him to learn wrestling. So his name is Nick Simmons. Uh, but I work with his, uh, uh, older brother, Andy. Uh, no, actually young- younger brother, Andy Simmons. Uh, that's who I work with. And, uh, he's more of my size and stuff like that, so I get a lot of high-level wrestling from him because both of them are Hall of Famers, uh, at, uh, Michigan, uh, State, which is pretty dope, you know. And, uh, so they, they got a, a, a, a nice revenue, you know what I'm saying, not revenue, but, like, a, a great career, uh, within wrestling. Went undefeated, you know what I'm saying, for the longest time. Like, I think over 200, 300 bouts or something like that undefeated. And then I got a conditioning coach at, uh, the HPI, Human Performance Institute, uh, Justin Hardee. He was an NFL player, you know. That's where we get all our, uh, conditioning work in. Uh, so, like, we don't have many, many guys, you know, but at the end of the day, we have enough to work with. We also got a guy that works with our jiu-jitsu who works at, uh, Magic, named Brendan Barry, who, uh, does all our jiu-jitsu. But the crazy thing about him, he's not a black belt, he's not a high-level jiu-jitsu guy. He's somebody that's just passionate about jiu-jitsu-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... who watches it every day, you know. And he shows us stuff that actually work, but he's somebody that's committed to it, you know, and who watches it every day. And, uh, that's who we learned jiu-jitsu from.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that was the case a long time ago. There was a lot of guys who were, like, blue belts and purple belts-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that were opening up schools because they didn't have a real good school around them-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and they knew that they could teach at least a base of fundamentals-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and then if they were really excited and passionate about jiu-jitsu-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... they would grow with their students.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Exactly, exactly. And that's exactly what he's doing with us, you know. Uh, because I can see Brendan, uh, going very far, you know, into being an instructor, going far in jiu-jitsu, you know. But just somebody that, you know, not looking for anything out of it, you know. He didn't never ask me for any money or nothing like that, but he shows me a lot of things that helped me win the fight against Albert Duahia, you know. How to get to stand up, you know, how to get my guard back, you know. And, uh, you know, it's just crazy because in that fight, a lot of people had me picked to lose, you know? And thinking like, "Okay, Albert Duahia trains at this big gym, you know, at Xtreme Couture and stuff like that. He has all the tools, he has all the resources." And then I go back to Michigan, I don't have much, but I got the people that's able to work on the things that we need to work on, and we do it repeatedly until I get it down. And then we able to show that in the fight, you know. And I feel like that's what I'm saying, like, we actually showing what works within this game, you know. Because if you got the right group of people that you're working with, they can help advance you in your career and stuff like that, then that's what you need to mesh up with. But a lot of fighters feel like they need to move on from the gym that they come from, that they was developing well at-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... to go to a bigger gym, you know.
- 17:35 – 20:02
From highlight hunting to championship mindset: winning vs entertaining (and the Izzy debate begins)
- JRJoe Rogan
So how do you balance out how much grappling you do versus how much striking you do? It s- it seems like you prefer striking. That seems like your, your level of expertise. That's where you have-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
I wouldn't say the level of expertise, but that's where the money come in, you know what I'm saying?
- JRJoe Rogan
That's where the money comes in? Is, is that what it is?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, that where the money come in. Yeah, bro, I just want to always be exciting, you know. But now we're trying to, you know, switch the gears into just becoming a winner-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know, because now we got money in the bank, you know? So, uh, my biggest thing is like when I went out for my first UFC fight with Kevin Holland, I just chose to stand on the feet. I could have took Kevin Holland down. I could have, you know what I mean, put it, put myself in a better position to win. But I decided just to strike and, you know, I fell on that. He beat me, you know, in the third round, you know, and, uh, he got the advantage on me. But at the end of the day, I was like, "I wanna make these fights exciting and, and, and, and fan appealing." Which even with the loss I had against Kevin Holland, people still wanted to watch me fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know? And then coming into my second fight with, uh, Empa Kusakana, you know, still chose... I mean, I mixed in a little bit of take down, but I let him back up. I was like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... "Right, I want to keep this on the feet. I wanna keep going." And then, of course, we did what we did, you know? So like, my whole course is just going through my career, I just wanted to strike with these guys and get good knockouts so I can get a third check, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
So you are thinking that way. You're thinking-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
That's what, how I was thinking.
- JRJoe Rogan
... "I want to make this very exciting."
- JBJoaquin Buckley
That's how I was thinking. Yes. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And now you're thinking, "I wanna be a champion."
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yes, sir.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. That's the shift, right? The pivot.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
And sometimes guys get criticized for that b- and I, I'm opposed to that criticism. People are saying, "Oh, they're fighting boring." And I'm like, "I don't know what, what you think is boring."
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Big-
- JRJoe Rogan
I think baseball's boring.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
But I don't think fighting's ever boring.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Big fact.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because there's always a potential for something crazy to happen.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
But the intelligent fighters-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- 20:02 – 35:22
Dropping to 170: weight realities, size disadvantages at 185, and how to beat elite champs
- JRJoe Rogan
I wanna talk to you about that fight.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Big facts. But-
- JRJoe Rogan
Because it's kind of your division, but maybe not in the future.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Uh, uh, uh, what are you gonna do?
- JRJoe Rogan
What are you gonna do?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
So, I decided-
- JRJoe Rogan
Have you decided?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Actually, uh, yeah, I already decided, I'm going down to 170.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
I'm about to get that. But regardless-
- JRJoe Rogan
But you're gonna have this fight with Chris Curtis?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yes. Chris Curtis.
- JRJoe Rogan
And that's at 85.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
That's at 85. Which was at-
- JRJoe Rogan
So they want... They wanted me to have one more fight at 185.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
They was like, "Well, if you want to make this good little money, re-sign at 185, fight CC, and then we can talk about you moving down to 170." You know what I'm saying? Mm. Are they opposed to you moving down to 170?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
I don't think they oppose, but they only seen me at 185.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know what I mean? So they like, "Well, first off..." Because it's so many different things, because people haven't seen me fight at 170, even though the majority of my fights are welterweight fights, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
I... Yes, sir. Yeah. So, uh, the majority of my career since I was 18, since I've been an amateur, everything, and going into pro, I was a 170 fighter.
- JRJoe Rogan
But dude, you're pretty fucking swole.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
(laughs) Uh, yeah, I am pretty swole, but, you know, don't let these muscles, uh, deceive you. You know what I'm saying? So-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JBJoaquin Buckley
I mean, I think Michael Jai White talked about it before, too, like, uh, when he's bulking, you know what I mean? Like, a lot of people think he's bigger then. Well, he is bigger, but they think he's smaller when they see him, but when he's cut up, you know what I'm saying? And he, and he's clean, that's when they think he's the, his biggest, because they see all the muscle-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... and he's so defined and everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
But he's actually lighter.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
But he's actually lighter, you know?
- 35:22 – 40:17
Weight-cut chaos & matchmaking: Khamzat/Diaz shake-up, catchweights, and who gets screwed
- JRJoe Rogan
... like, you see there's so many problems, like Khamzat's the biggest problem, right?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Trying to get down to 170 and the dude misses it by eight pounds.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is... Fucked up the whole card, the whole-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, man. Now, hold on. Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a problem.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Look, and I love to talk about this too, 'cause I don't think the UFC set this up, like, no crazy stuff. I ain't trying to be on no Brendan Schaubs now.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JBJoaquin Buckley
I ain't trying to be on no Bre- But low-key, it just worked out too well.
- JRJoe Rogan
It did work out too well, but that's how things happen sometimes.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm, you think so?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, it's my whole life.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
It's your whole life? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JBJoaquin Buckley
All right, man. I give you that. I give that to you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, trust me. Things just work out sometimes.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, big facts. Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
That was a situation where it was best-case scenario in terms of options.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because Kevin Holland had fought at 185 before.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And he was available and he was willing, and then they got in a squabble backstage and so they said, "All right, let's just make this at 180." And Kevin's like, "Good." Because Kevin was already supposed to fight Daniel Rodriguez-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... at 180. That all, that made sense.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, but see-
- JRJoe Rogan
The guy got fucked over as a leech.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
But hold on, but thing is though, and, uh, that's the thing, it really didn't make no sense because why they fighting at 180 and, and then why did they just put it on the card last minute?
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, they had no other options. The only other option was cancel the card. Like, what d- what is the option?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Why, why would they, why would they have to cancel?
- 40:17 – 51:40
Welterweight killers and division identity: Shavkat, Geoff Neal, and the ‘missing personalities’
- JRJoe Rogan
But then, you know, uh, and shout out to Neil Magny who just finished D-Rod, because Neil Magny is one of the most underappreciated guys in the UFC.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, low-key.
- JRJoe Rogan
Pfff. That guy has cardio.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
The pace that dude puts on people, he's such a workman. He just comes in and just constant volume-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Nah, big fact.
- JRJoe Rogan
... long reach.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Uh, I don't know. I feel like, uh, Neil Mag... He does a good job of getting guys to fight his style.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know what I'm saying?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
He takes his time with guys-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... and, like, guys take that pace, but then don't realize, "Okay, oh, time is getting ate up-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
"... right now." And, uh, Neil Magny does a good d- job of tying guys up, just using that long ja... It's boring. I ain't gonna lie to you. It's slow, but even though when you say like, "Oh, it's not boring, it's masterful," but it's a lot of things I be seeing Neil Magny do and I be, I ain't gonna lie to you, I be falling asleep, I be nodding off.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, because you like exciting shit.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
I do, I do.
- JRJoe Rogan
You're a wild man. (laughs)
- JBJoaquin Buckley
I do, I am a wild man. But I don't know, well, speaking of Neil Magny, you know, you know, and I'm glad he got a win because you never know, you know, with the UFC with, you know, losses and stuff like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
But that Shavkat kid though, The Undefeated.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ooh, he's good.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know what I'm saying? He, he, he demolished-
- JRJoe Rogan
He is good.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
... Neil Magny, bro. You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
He is good, yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
And, uh, what he got him out the first round?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that guy's good.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, yeah.
- 51:40 – 1:04:30
Injuries, brutal combat sports, and ‘real fights’: surgeries, bare-knuckle, street fighting, and security work
- JRJoe Rogan
It's, uh... Have you, uh, had any surgeries or any like major injuries?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah. The only time I had surgeries are when I got into UFC.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Which I had no, like, injuries, like throughout a fight until I started fighting on the best promotion on the planet, which I'm fighting the best fighters. So-
- JRJoe Rogan
What did you, uh... What injury did you get?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Uh, ACL, uh, tear, a meniscus tear, um, uh, so meniscus and, uh, as well as the orbital, uh, fracture in Antonio Arroyo fight.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Uh, yeah, that was bad, you know, because I was seeing two of him, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Does it have to complete?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
And I was coming off, and I was coming off a loss of Alessio, so that's who tore my meniscus when he had kicked me with that roundhouse kick because I was ducking. I was trying to box too much.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
You know, he kicked me upside my head, but the way I fell ended up tearing, you know what I'm saying, my meniscus. And then after that fight that I had with him, getting that surgery, I went into the fight with Antonio Arroyo. I won that fight, but he left a, you know, a good little mark right underneath my eye, but found out that, uh, he had broke my orbital.
- JRJoe Rogan
So did you have to have surgery in your orbital?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah, yeah. So they had to replace it like with a little rod. Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
So like the base of my, like, my eye itself, um, like it was gone. So like my, my eye was just floating there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, damn.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
So I could have had a lazy eye, you know what I'm saying?
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, Jesus.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
So he was like, "Yeah, we got to replace this, you know, so you can't have that wall back underneath that foundation almost."
- JRJoe Rogan
What does that feel... Do you... Can you feel it when he touch your face?
- JBJoaquin Buckley
No, no, I can... I mean, yeah, I can feel it a little bit, like, um, like the soft part that you have here.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
So I can feel like right here where it's a little harder, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
Yeah. And they said if it was metal, then I couldn't be able to compete. So he put like a plastic one, and I was asking him, I go, "Is that gonna affect it? Is it easier to break?" And they was like, "No." It's hard to reach type shit, so.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, okay.
- JBJoaquin Buckley
It actually makes it a lot stronger because the bone is so like fragile right there.
- JRJoe Rogan
So if it was metal, you wouldn't be able to fight because it would open up with cuts-
- JBJoaquin Buckley
That's what they said. That's what-
Episode duration: 2:27:57
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